WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:10.599 You see, something's going to happen. What? What's going to happen? 2 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:15.519 What? 3 00:00:24.839 --> 00:00:28.839 Welcome to the Cult Rejects this episode. We got a 4 00:00:28.839 --> 00:00:30.960 bunch of people with us, a bunch of rejects here 5 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:33.960 and a very special guests, an author that I'm very 6 00:00:34.119 --> 00:00:38.079 very excited to have on, especially for this topic. But 7 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:41.119 before we introduce him, I'm going to reintroduce the other 8 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:44.759 rejects today. We got joining us at Jake Jay. How 9 00:00:44.759 --> 00:00:46.479 do you say it like that? The way you spelled 10 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:53.920 that fucked me up, Jacqueline Jay Quillan say, okay, yeah, 11 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:58.320 from Universe Unveiled. Yeah, please introduce yourself one and everybody 12 00:00:58.399 --> 00:00:59.759 wants yep. 13 00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:03.479 So I'm Jacqueline. I'm the co host of Universe Unveiled 14 00:01:03.479 --> 00:01:07.359 podcast presented by the Institute for Natural Philosophy. 15 00:01:09.239 --> 00:01:09.439 Yeah. 16 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:10.799 I'm really excited to be here. 17 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:13.040 Thank you Nick for the invite. 18 00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:17.480 And I'm I think I'm going to get a little 19 00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:19.400 bit schooled, so I'm looking forward to that. 20 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:23.439 All right. Yeah, I think all of us are really 21 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:26.120 including myself, So yeah, I'm very much looking forward to this. 22 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:29.680 And we got my Managin the Ninja. What is going on, sir? 23 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:34.200 Hey boss? What's up? Really good? To be on this episode. 24 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:35.920 I've been looking forward to it, josh and I have 25 00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:39.159 been looking forward to it for all month pretty much, 26 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:40.879 and I knew as soon as you sent me the 27 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:43.280 email that this was one I definitely wanted on. So 28 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:49.239 you can check me out at Threshold Saints at Threshold 29 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:53.200 Saints on ig and ex Twitter or at wukongrie Born, 30 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:57.599 which is my personal account, and also our roundtable podcast 31 00:01:57.680 --> 00:01:59.920 which is The Gray Lodge, of which of course Joshua 32 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:02.560 as a founding member, and if you're interested in that, 33 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:05.239 we have a YouTube and we are live on x 34 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:10.240 Friday night Nastic Masks every Friday six or seven, yes, 35 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:13.560 depending on my mood. So you can definitely check us 36 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:16.120 out there and thank you so much. I'm really looking forward. 37 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:20.960 To this listen. Thank you and the branch. What is 38 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:23.039 going on, so please let everybody know what you deal with. 39 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:29.400 It's a pleasure to be here again so soon. Yeah, 40 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:32.360 I belong to the Gray Lodge. We do some spaces 41 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:34.840 every Friday night. It's a lot of fun, very eclectic, 42 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:40.240 speculative spaces and you can also find me on Instagram 43 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:46.199 as Apocalyptic Aesthetic and on Twitter is w Burkin Umbrella. 44 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:49.960 Let's get into the names of God. 45 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:55.240 All right, sounds good. Thank you very much, sir and Tyrone. 46 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:57.280 Please let everybody know what is up. 47 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:00.560 Well, I hope everybody so. Yeah. 48 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:03.680 So I'm excited to be here like always, you know, 49 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:07.000 I'm excited to learn something new. Every day you wake up, 50 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:09.199 you got to learn something new. But everything you can 51 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:11.840 find on and learn about me is on my website 52 00:03:11.879 --> 00:03:16.680 rebirth at theWord dot com. I have a Rombo County, Instagram, Facebook, 53 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:19.520 Twitter X all that stuff. All I'm trying to do 54 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:20.800 is just share what I've learned. 55 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:22.400 And that's it. That's all I care about, is just 56 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:23.280 sharing what I've learned. 57 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:23.680 That's it. 58 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:26.159 Thanks Nick, I appreciate that, bro. 59 00:03:26.240 --> 00:03:28.759 Of course. No, I appreciate you jumping on. Thank you. 60 00:03:29.280 --> 00:03:32.080 And for finally, last but not least, Ethan in the go, 61 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:32.879 what's going on. 62 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:35.800 With by Ethan's book too? 63 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:36.120 Hey? 64 00:03:36.120 --> 00:03:40.759 Hold up? Sorry, buy Ethan's book too? Yeah, everyone buy 65 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:41.159 my book. 66 00:03:41.199 --> 00:03:43.360 I always like to tell people you don't have to 67 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:46.000 read it to buy it on trip. 68 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:47.000 No. 69 00:03:49.719 --> 00:03:52.879 Honored to be here. I always enjoy learning so much 70 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:55.439 from the guests. Shamie, this is going to be great 71 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:59.400 and all the steam's co hosts easy to find on 72 00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:01.520 all the social media, and my. 73 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:05.800 Books are out there as well. So appreciate being here. 74 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:08.360 Thanks Nick, oh, thank you, Thank you Ron. 75 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:12.719 And finally we got a guesst himself. We have Jamie 76 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:15.879 Paul Land and he does have a book that is 77 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:18.519 going to be coming out, the astrological Gaisha the seventy 78 00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:23.920 two Keys to Angelic and Demonic Astrology. Ooh, so very 79 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:26.399 excited to have him here and to talk about that. 80 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:29.360 I have, you know, touched on the Goaishia numerous times 81 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:31.160 on the show, but never like really went into it. 82 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:34.399 And we're not really consider myself someone to talk on 83 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:36.360 it for a whole episode. I just you know, I 84 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:38.920 don't think I have those credentials. So we have somebody 85 00:04:38.920 --> 00:04:42.560 here who can. So I'm very excited about that. Jamie. 86 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:45.040 Please let everybody know. I guess you know what other 87 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:46.920 stuff you have that you might want to promote, whether 88 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:49.079 they can find anything. Let everybody know where they can 89 00:04:49.079 --> 00:04:49.399 find you. 90 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:54.279 Well, I've got my website which is Jamie Paul lamb 91 00:04:54.319 --> 00:05:01.639 dot com, and on there I offer services like astrological 92 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:07.600 consultation and taro and things. But there's also you know, 93 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:16.199 like I do courses in traditional astrology. And other than that, 94 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:22.279 I've got three other books out before Astrological Goishia, which 95 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:27.800 are primarily Masonic focused, so they were done on smaller 96 00:05:27.879 --> 00:05:33.879 Masonic imprints, but they're available on Amazon. If you just 97 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:37.959 look up my name, you could see, you know, those 98 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:42.279 books on Amazon. This, in fact, the Astrological go Aisha 99 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:47.000 is actually my first non Masonic book, and it's just 100 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:50.759 based on a lot of studies and things into the 101 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:58.160 Grimwire tradition and particularly Greco Egyptian magic like that you'd 102 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:01.560 find in like the PGM, but all the way through 103 00:06:01.560 --> 00:06:04.959 the pick A Trix and that's those sort of Perso 104 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:10.839 Arabic medieval grimoires, and yeah, that's basically my zone in 105 00:06:10.839 --> 00:06:14.120 the last couple of years, like maybe five years or so. 106 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:20.480 And yeah, all my work that I do on my 107 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:26.839 website is kind of centered around that particular perspective. But yeah, 108 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:30.439 this is my first book that's not Masonic. Like I said, 109 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:33.639 the word Freemasonry is not even in this book anywhere, 110 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:39.920 and I'm thinking that, you know, it's a much wider demographic, 111 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:42.839 So I just wonder how this is going to play out. 112 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:46.560 But I'm very excited about this book, and it's a 113 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:50.319 pleasure to be on occult rejects. I appreciate it. 114 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:54.439 Oh no, thank you please as soon as you know, 115 00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:56.319 like I said, as soon as I got the email, 116 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.000 as you know, let me know about you. I looked 117 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:00.480 at you stuff. I was like, oh, oh, I got 118 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.639 to get this guy on. I was truly excited to 119 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:03.600 cover this time. 120 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:03.879 Yeah. 121 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:09.040 So I guess real quick. Oh, you know, you had 122 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:13.439 mentioned like the Freemason Freemason books I know on your site. 123 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:15.040 I think, if you don't mind, maybe I know like you. 124 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.360 I think you've had experience as being a Freemason member, 125 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:19.560 and you are also associated with like Mark Stavish and 126 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:21.160 stuff like that. I don't know if you wanted to 127 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:23.120 promote that or just go over that real quick too. 128 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:28.399 Sure. Yeah, I'm the instructor of astrology at Mark Estavish's 129 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:33.600 Institute for Hermetic Studies, and he and I are very 130 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:36.920 close and I've known him a number of years. And 131 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:42.160 uh yeah, I pretty much I've done a lot of 132 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:45.600 speaking just all over the US on the Masonic circuit. 133 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:50.199 But like I said that, I'm sort of segueing into 134 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:56.920 the broader astrological sort of millieu. Right and next, In fact, 135 00:07:56.959 --> 00:08:01.240 I got a really good opportunity in twenty twenty I've 136 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:04.879 been I applied to speak at YUAC, which is the 137 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:10.040 super Bowl of astrology conferences, and it's in Chicago. It's 138 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:14.800 the big astro conference. So I'm speaking there in twenty 139 00:08:14.839 --> 00:08:18.560 twenty six. So I'm very excited about that, you know, 140 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:21.959 and they in fact put me on a good slot too, 141 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:26.920 I think on Saturday at like four thirty, right, Yeah, 142 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:30.600 so you really looking forward to that. I think that's 143 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:33.639 going to bring a lot of visibility to my work, 144 00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:35.720 you know, which is always nice. 145 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:39.960 I definitely think that will help for sure. Congratulations, Yeah, 146 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:43.200 thank you. What brought you to I guess what was 147 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:45.559 the reason for you writing this book? Like, what was 148 00:08:45.600 --> 00:08:47.320 going to be different about this book than all the 149 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:48.879 other go Gaatia books out there? 150 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:55.080 Well, because I've been focusing on that the last few years, 151 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:59.320 I've I in fact found a little chestnut that nobody 152 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:02.480 has read and about before. So that's what, you know, 153 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:05.360 that's kind of the aim. I think when you're writing 154 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:08.799 a book, you want to have a novel thesis, something 155 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:11.960 that hasn't been trampled all over for hundreds of years. 156 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:16.960 And I found something that has never been worked up 157 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:20.600 in the literature, and I've never heard anybody talk about it. 158 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:26.679 So it's basically using the quineries, so the angelic and 159 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:32.000 demonic five degree arc segments of the ecliptic and using 160 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:39.519 those in astrological delineation. So if that sounds too specialized, 161 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:46.000 I could say it another way. It's something that you 162 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:50.879 can use to delineate a chart, right everybody, you know, 163 00:09:50.919 --> 00:09:55.919 how in regular just traditional astrology, everybody has the planets 164 00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:01.480 against the zodiac, and the planets are sort of colorized 165 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:06.039 by the by the particular zodiac sign that they're in. 166 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:12.240 It it sort of blends significations and changes the sort 167 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:16.679 of quality of that planetary expression. Like if you have 168 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:22.759 Jupiter in cancer, that's like different than having Jupiter in areas. 169 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:26.639 You know, there's a total it's it's jubiterarian, but it's 170 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:32.799 a different Jupiter. So so according to quinarian astrology, which 171 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:36.720 is what I've been calling this, your planets are also 172 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:40.759 in a certain quinery at any given time, Like you 173 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:45.320 might have your son in the you know, fifteenth quinery, 174 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:50.320 you know, and and it's just you know, depending on 175 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:54.159 the angel or demon that rules that segment of the ecliptic, 176 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:59.159 and they're five degrees each that that sort of colors 177 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:03.200 the interpretation of that planet. Now, I was doing this 178 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:05.559 a number of years ago. I was doing this probably 179 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:09.120 ten years ago, and I was thinking about which quinery 180 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:12.679 my planets were in, not just my son, but all 181 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:17.519 your planets, right, And I was like, has anybody talked 182 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:20.799 about this? Has this been something that people have you know, 183 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:25.360 worked over already? And I found that that hasn't been 184 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:28.919 the case, that there's no record of it in the literature. 185 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:32.039 So I was like, you know, kind of a no brainer. 186 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:34.799 I was like, I've got to write this book, you know. 187 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:40.919 So that's kind of what started this project, is necessity 188 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:44.559 really at first, because I wanted to do that for 189 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:48.039 my own chart and the charts of people who I 190 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:52.759 you know, I read their nativities for, you know, and 191 00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:54.840 I wanted to be able to tell them about the 192 00:11:54.879 --> 00:12:00.200 demons and angels. So it's a totally different perspective on, uh, 193 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:05.000 the delineation of planets because instead of merely looking at 194 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:08.559 them in the sign or in the decan, you could 195 00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:14.679 look at them more more even you know, exact, You 196 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:17.000 can get an exact picture of them in a five 197 00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:20.639 degree arc segment as opposed to ten or thirty degrees 198 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:24.840 ten for the decand thirty for the sign, you know. 199 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:29.080 So it's just fine tuning things. And I was attracted 200 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:30.039 to the idea. 201 00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:34.600 Nice is that too much? 202 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:37.559 Is that too because I could break that down more. 203 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:40.399 Yeah, you should have kept going like the Energizer bunny 204 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:42.639 because I was you shouldn't even stop. 205 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:46.440 I was gonna ask you, uh yeah, well I understood 206 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:48.360 where you're going with it, and I just wanted to say, 207 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:51.120 like for the listeners and people even on the panel 208 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:54.919 or aren't maybe even quite sure about the Croatia, maybe 209 00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:56.519 I should have asked this first. But I mean, it's 210 00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:59.320 really no big deal. What do you think the point 211 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:01.519 of the gowai and the way you're looking at it, Like, 212 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:03.200 what's the point of the book, Like what do you 213 00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:06.120 think that actually is? You know what I'm saying like that? 214 00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:08.240 So yeah, yeah, I think I do. 215 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:08.559 So. 216 00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:16.799 I'm I believe in magic as an objective phenomenon, you know, 217 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.600 so for me, it's not psychologized. I don't believe that 218 00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:24.360 the Goiesha, for example, the demons of the artist Goiesia. 219 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:29.360 I believe that they have an objective ontology or reality 220 00:13:29.399 --> 00:13:32.519 of their own, you know, And it's not contingent on 221 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:38.519 how like me psychologically projecting that into the world. So 222 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:43.559 I believe in their reality, the demons reality, you know, 223 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:50.440 as being real. You know that there are these demonic forces, right, 224 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:54.879 these entities really and same thing with angels, though they 225 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:59.200 might be a little more abstract like angels. They've been 226 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:02.519 talked about from Ius all the way through John D. 227 00:14:03.159 --> 00:14:07.519 People have talked about the angels as being mathematical equations, 228 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:13.600 you know, they're they're more like abstract mathematical entities, which 229 00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:18.159 makes sense to me. That's that doesn't lessen their their 230 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:24.679 sort of reality as an entity just because they're abstract. 231 00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:28.320 You know, it's kind of a platonic thing. There's forms, 232 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:31.039 and then they get more and more solid as you 233 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:35.559 go down the scale from from the one to the 234 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:40.440 no way realm. Yeah, exactly, and all the way down 235 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:45.480 to like kabalistically what you would call malcoot or or 236 00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:52.039 I what's us A S S I S. 237 00:14:56.279 --> 00:14:58.840 Yeah, you know, actually you're talking about Plato in the one. 238 00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:03.720 I actually dropped a two our showing up Plutonius yesterday. 239 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:05.960 Oh great, Yeah, I'm into that stuff for sure. 240 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:11.360 Oh yeah. So all that to say that, obviously, the 241 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:15.840 way that that the worldview that we inherit as modern 242 00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:21.960 day Westerners is one of matter and energy, you know, 243 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:29.039 and one that is scientific but at the sort of 244 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:37.759 peril of you know, this material paradigm. Right, So I 245 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:42.559 believe that there should be room for the metaphysical, and 246 00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:44.720 that we don't need to think of it in terms 247 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:47.799 of like, here's a popular thing the last twenty five 248 00:15:47.879 --> 00:15:54.039 years or so that quantum entanglement and theoretical physics and 249 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:57.799 all this sort of stuff explains a way magic. I 250 00:15:57.799 --> 00:16:00.480 don't think that it does, because I look at magic, 251 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:04.000 like it says in Agrippa the picka tricks all the 252 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:10.080 way back. It says, magic is simply a cult causality. 253 00:16:10.879 --> 00:16:15.480 It's causality, but you can't see the causal agent, you know, 254 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:20.440 So it's a hidden causality. You know, something happens as 255 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:26.200 if by magic, you know, not like you know, me 256 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:30.960 getting up and physically doing something or you know. So 257 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:35.600 I think that I think that it's time to reclaim 258 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:41.639 that worldview. And it's something that's difficult to change, of course, 259 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:48.600 So this atheistic materialism is difficult to get over. It's 260 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:53.000 difficult to you know, build upon that other than physically. 261 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:57.480 But I think when we talk about magic, we're talking 262 00:16:57.519 --> 00:17:02.279 about metaphysics. It's beyond the physical realm. So if you 263 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:05.359 if you try and express it or explain it as 264 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:12.240 being quantum this or energy that, or psychologically this or that, 265 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:18.359 you're you're automatically veering away from magic and you're into 266 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.640 the physical again. So it's not a Medai. Does that 267 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:25.039 make sense. It's not a it's not a physics, it's 268 00:17:25.079 --> 00:17:26.160 a metaphysics. 269 00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:33.599 I totally get that. Yeah, Jin Josh. If you guys 270 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:36.480 want to ask anything specific, do. 271 00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:39.359 You I have a quick one, Jamie. Do you feel 272 00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:43.880 that angels occupy the same ontological or even cosmological space 273 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:45.440 as the goet experience. 274 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:49.079 No. I think of angels as being in this sort 275 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:52.279 of beyond the oakdo ad, so the fixed stars in 276 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:56.240 the zodiac or Hokma if you prefer, I look at 277 00:17:56.240 --> 00:18:00.759 the angels as being entities that are in the essentially 278 00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:06.920 the any attic realm, right that they are noetic and 279 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:11.519 and further than that, I think of demons as being 280 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:16.200 at or below the do ad, because of course you 281 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:20.039 get aerial demons and fiery demons, but you also get 282 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:23.839 stellar demons like those are that are found among the Deccans, 283 00:18:24.519 --> 00:18:28.279 the decanal demons, and now in the quinnaries like the 284 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:33.599 of the ars go Issha, these goetic demons. They're also 285 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:38.799 on or below the do Ad, the eighth sphere. So 286 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:45.960 in the in your typical like Platonic and Kabbalistic models, 287 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:51.039 right cosmological models, you find that that's kind of the 288 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:55.480 cutoff point. Everything can be physical or astral up to 289 00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:58.839 the up to and including the do Ad, but beyond 290 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:03.279 that you're ending, You're you're getting into the super celestial 291 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:07.880 as a Grippa would call it. And these are these 292 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:13.200 are entities that are you know, abstract sort of. So 293 00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:16.559 angels have always been described as that pretty much. And 294 00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:22.759 angels angelos right there it means messenger. They're messengers from 295 00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:29.000 the one to the through down to thysis what the 296 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:33.240 Greeks would call it physis. And you know, again that 297 00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:36.880 Platonic model of the one or tohen and then the 298 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:42.440 no edic realm, and then the the sort of astral 299 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:49.200 us astral realm of us psyche and then down to. 300 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.480 Uh, sorry, Jamie, when you're saying psyche, could you be 301 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:54.920 referring to your sod or that Youde death. 302 00:19:54.799 --> 00:20:00.480 Connection yeah, I guess you could say in that zone, right, 303 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:03.039 because that would be the planetary zone. When you go 304 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.960 from Beina down to Ysoude. You're really talking about Saturn 305 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:12.279 down to the Moon. So we happen to live in 306 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:18.680 the sublunary world right where humans inhabit the sub lunar realm, 307 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:22.880 that is to say, below the moon, so the astral 308 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:27.720 realms and of Psyche, you know, would be between the 309 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:31.359 Moon and all the way up into Hokmah, the fixed 310 00:20:31.359 --> 00:20:36.640 stars and the zodiac. So it's. 311 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:39.920 You're one of the first ocultists. Sorry Jimmy, but you're 312 00:20:39.920 --> 00:20:43.079 one of the first ocultists I've really heard refer to 313 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:46.119 Hokmah as being this place of fixed stars. I also 314 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:47.799 refer to it as like a place of flux, a 315 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:52.359 smoky place sometimes, but it's good to hear that. I'm 316 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:57.359 not totally you know, out on an island, right. 317 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:02.640 Yeah, it's it's you know, I definitely think these models 318 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:05.440 are compatible. And if you look at the Tree of Life, 319 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:12.039 doesn't it Yeah, the fixed stars, fixed stars in the zodiac. 320 00:21:12.279 --> 00:21:14.559 If you look at the Tree of Life, it's really 321 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:20.720 just the Ptolemaic cosmos with Malcouth being the the you know, 322 00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:25.160 the realm of the four Empedoclian elements, you know that 323 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:28.640 are in a state of flux, a state of what 324 00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:33.480 Aristotle would call generation and corruption. And then once you 325 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:37.200 get up to the moon and that sort of etheric 326 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:42.400 sphere and beyond, then you're talking about you know, the 327 00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:47.160 astral or the realm, corresponding to psyche in the Platonic 328 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:52.559 and neo Platonic cosmology, and uh yeah, going all the 329 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:56.079 way up again to Hokma fixed stars in the zodiac, 330 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:00.759 and then you have you know, uh, Cather which is 331 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:05.680 like the ani attic zone or maybe the sort of 332 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:08.759 maybe even beyond that to some extent, or maybe that 333 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:12.799 would be on I'm so fine so far where you're 334 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:18.960 really into that abstract angelic world, super celestial. 335 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:21.920 It was like beyond like they're almost formless. 336 00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:27.680 Yeah, yeah, abstract platonic an idea or a form capital 337 00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:28.720 I capital F. 338 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:31.759 Could you say epanoya? 339 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:35.480 May say that again, what. 340 00:22:35.359 --> 00:22:38.640 Do you think of using the word epanoya to describe 341 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:40.160 what you're talking about? 342 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:45.160 Epanoia? I haven't read that word, but I can kind 343 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:52.000 of think of that. You're saying beyond the noose, right, yes, yeah, 344 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:57.720 so beyond the noose. Yeah, I mean, because the news begins, 345 00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:02.440 if we're speaking kabalistically, the noetic realm begins after the 346 00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:05.319 fixed stars in the zodiac. We and this is something 347 00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:09.319 I really dig very deeply into in my book because 348 00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:16.039 when we're talking about that the intellectual world, right, the 349 00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:24.279 abstract intellectual world news or the noetic world. What's what's 350 00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:27.799 interesting about my book is that this is the first 351 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:32.359 astrology that's actually dealing And this is one of the 352 00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:35.480 sort of hidden jewels of this book that I hope 353 00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:44.519 people understand is that I'm using the method of astrology, right, 354 00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:50.480 I'm astrologizing the noetic realm with this technique that's to 355 00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:53.319 my knowledge that's never been done before. You know, to 356 00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:58.759 get into this demonic and angelic astrology is to use 357 00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:03.839 the the method that has normally been applied to everything 358 00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:08.640 from Ysoude to Hokma that is to say, from really 359 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:16.319 the world like the Malkuth or Asia all the way 360 00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:19.240 up to Hokmah, the fixed stars in the zodiac. That's 361 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:23.880 where our magic has has been and our astrology has been. 362 00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:30.960 But this is to take astrology beyond the odoad. So 363 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:36.400 now we're we're using the methods of astrology to work 364 00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:42.079 with angels and demons, so and I've never seen that before. 365 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:47.039 So I think that's something that's of interest, is these 366 00:24:47.319 --> 00:24:51.799 these you know, philosophical implications of this sort of astrology, 367 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:56.400 Like you have Agrippa for example. Agrippa has three books 368 00:24:56.640 --> 00:25:00.680 and they're cosmological because book one is element mental and 369 00:25:01.599 --> 00:25:06.279 sort of natural, the natural world, elemental world, that is 370 00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:10.480 to say, the sub lunar. The second book is sort 371 00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:14.440 of astral and celestial, that is to say, this zone 372 00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:18.440 between the moon and the fixed stars and the zodiac 373 00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:23.759 and everything in between, all the planets, and then beyond 374 00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:27.880 that is what a grip calls the super celestial. So 375 00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:33.200 that's that's the nouse or the noose, and that's this 376 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:38.519 abstract plane, and that's where Plato's forms are. That's that's 377 00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:42.599 the realm of ideas. It's the intellectual world, and you 378 00:25:42.680 --> 00:25:47.880 have angels there, right. So if we're using the methods 379 00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:52.720 of astrology, but we're we are using that, but we're 380 00:25:52.759 --> 00:25:58.839 puncturing the okdo ad the a sphere and applying those 381 00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:04.480 methods for the first time, I believe astrologically. Does that 382 00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:05.079 make sense. 383 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:07.720 It's really quite profound. 384 00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:11.319 What you're saying Actually, to be honest, yeah, I don't know. 385 00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.279 I thought so too. Right years ago, I was thinking 386 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:17.920 about this stuff and I looked and nobody was talking 387 00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:21.079 about it. Nobody had written anything about it. I mean, 388 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:24.960 I'm sure people have worked this before, but they they 389 00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:33.119 left no record. They left no record. So it's pretty 390 00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:37.759 I mean, it's it's really interesting. 391 00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:41.319 Yeah, real quick too, not to get I guess, like 392 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:43.319 too much of the book unless this is in there, 393 00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:48.039 I have no idea, but like, I guess, does this 394 00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:53.640 change or like, how would you ritualistically the way this 395 00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:55.359 is supposed to be done. Would it's still be is 396 00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:58.400 as like it's normally be suggested in the past, or 397 00:26:58.480 --> 00:26:59.599 does anything changed with that? 398 00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:04.200 Not too much? I mean, if you ever made like 399 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:07.880 an angelic talisman, you know, have the sigil of the 400 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:14.200 archangel on a talisman that you're creating right, that has 401 00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:19.200