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Speaker 7: Meaning the live man like this, man you letting butterfly

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flapping his wing.

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Speaker 8: Dig down in the forest.

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Speaker 9: Man, it gonna cause a tree fall, letting five thousand

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miles away.

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Speaker 7: Man, nobody see nobody, you know?

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Speaker 9: Need no Man, don't luck you a story?

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Speaker 5: Ain't you got righted?

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Speaker 10: That?

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Speaker 11: That's the way?

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Speaker 12: Man?

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Speaker 13: Don't like it?

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Speaker 8: Dang on the pane.

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Speaker 12: You don't don't it?

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Speaker 7: Man?

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Speaker 13: Okay?

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Speaker 7: All right, Jim Jattress we lookome to Jay Burden Show.

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How are you doing?

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Speaker 8: Jay?

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Speaker 13: Great to be here? You come highly recommended. I hope

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I come likewise highly recommended.

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Speaker 7: Well, this is one of the fun things about having

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an interview show that's been running as long as mine.

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Is it a certain point you crossed the threshold where

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you've sort of reached the maximum number of people you

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can find organically, and so you can reach out to

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friends and get recommendations, and so I never encountered your

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work before being recommended it. And I'm very pleased to

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have you on the Show's it's you sort of get

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to cheat, right, you sort of get to outsource your guests.

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So for my audience who might not be familiar with you,

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who are you and what do you do?

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Speaker 8: Who the hell are you? Why are you here? Pretty much?

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Speaker 13: Yeah, I'm what they call in Russian And we've seen

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chili viak a former person, a person who was formerly something.

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That was a term that came round after the Revolution

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when people had been something but they weren't anymore. So

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I'm just very briefly up in a military family. My

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father was a fighter pilot. My parents were both born

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in the United States. All for my grandparents were from Greece,

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from Sparta. Grew up in Germany, a lot of places

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in the United States. I went to law school after

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undergrad school because I didn't know what else to do.

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Speaker 8: Never practiced law.

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Speaker 13: Went from there into the diplomatic service. I was a

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foreign Service officer for about six and a half years,

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serving in Mexico and then later at the Office of

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Soviet Affairs back in those days under the Reagan administration

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and the Office of the Undersecretary for Political Affairs. And

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then I worked on Capitol Hill in the Republican leadership

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for about seventeen years as a foreign policy analyst, writing legislation,

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analyzing legislation, monitoring the floor action, things of that sort,

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writing papers on policy issues, the Balkans, Eastern Europe, Central America,

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South Africa, all that fun stuff. And then after I

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left government service, I was with a couple of major

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law firms in DC as an evil Washington lobbyist for

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a while, and then also with some smaller boutique firms.

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And I retired about five years ago as a Virginia

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country gentleman. And so's that's who I am. And I

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do a lot of talk on you know, various podcasts,

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and I used to write quite prolifically. In fact, you know,

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just to plug my book here, I tried to warn you.

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My collected writings for the last five decades also useful

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for home defense. And I don't really write anymore. My

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muse has deserted me. But I can blab like any

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other idiot online, so I do that sometimes.

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Speaker 7: Well, yeah, fair enough, I mean, if we're talking about

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blabbing on the internet. I'm far from the first person

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to criticize you there. I've made somewhat of a middling

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online career out of it.

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Speaker 8: So I want to.

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Speaker 7: Talk with you specifically about US Russia relations because effectively

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my entire life, Russia has been you know, a bugaboo.

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I sort of came of age during you know, the

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first Trump years, where you know, Russia Gate was you know,

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the scandal to end all scandals. Now, obviously with the

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you know, Russia Ukraine War, that has continued to be

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the case, at least for a large percentage of you know, America.

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But I assume that relations between the two countries did

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not start with the election of Donald Trump. Obviously there's

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a dramatic before and after the Cold War. So if

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you could someone who lived through it, can you speak

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about the transition from you know, first fighting the Cold

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War then to Russia as a you know, a nominally

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regular nation, and how did that lead us to this

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sort of contentious relationship we have today.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, I could certainly do that. One thing I want

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to flag because I think a lot of people misunderstand

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this point. I think there are a lot of people,

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especially younger people who don't haven't lived through that history,

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who simply assume that this is kind of a carryover

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or hangover from the First Cold War with the Soviet Union.

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You know, don't they realize it's not the Soviet Union anymore,

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it's not communists anymore.

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Speaker 8: Why are we so hostile to Russia? And that isn't it?

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Speaker 13: In fact, we are far far more hostile to Russia

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today as a non communist country than we ever were

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during the Soviet period, during the depths of the Cold War.

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I mean, just to point, you know, whatever you think

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of Ladin or Putin personally, no Soviet leader, about Krushchev,

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not even Stolin, was ever demonized by the American media

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and the American establishment the way this guy is. And

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so this is a qualitatively different thing. Just just to

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back things up a little bit, maybe on a macro level.

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To start with, Russia and the United States have no

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particular reason to be enemies, and for that matter, they

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have no particular reason to have any close complementary relationship either.

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I mean, if there are two countries on the planet

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that really have no reason to interact with each other

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for good or ill, it's the United States and Russia.

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I mean, Russia is a very self contained country in

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terms of you know, it's resource base, it's you know,

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it supplies everything it needs. That there's a country that

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could be a perfect autarchy, it would be Russia because

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they can supply all their needs domestically. The United States

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isn't quite as as in that position, but we are

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a pretty substantial operation if we were to focus on

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our own domestic needs rather than trying to project power

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all across the world. So you know, we have no

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reason to be in each other's faces, and we have

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no reason really to be dependent on each other either.

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You know, back during the nineteenth century, when the major

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antagonists of both the United States and Russia was the

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British Empire, we actually had a fairly cordial relationship with Russia.

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You know, not that I'm a big Lincoln partisan in

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the Civil War and so forth, but the recent Russia

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supported the Union during the Civil War is because the

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British Empire supported the Confederacy, so they were you know,

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they just fought the Crimean War with Russia, and so

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you know, they inclined toward a strong friendship toward the

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United States. And again we you know, we get in

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all the details of the revolution, communism and all that.

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Speaker 8: The long and the.

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Speaker 13: Short of it is when we get toward the end

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of the communist period, when the Soviet government collapsed, when

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the more soft pack collapsed, and communism and Russia stopped

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being a global movement, that was problematic for the United States.

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I think there was a lot of naivete, at least

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on my part, that we would go back to a

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more or less normal world, non ideological world, but existed

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before nineteen fourteen. What I did not anticipate is said

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the United States would embark upon a new career that's

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kind of a new Soviet Union. Instead of you know, peace,

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progress and socialism. Ideologically, we're going to impose democracy, human rights,

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and corporate free markets on the rest of the world.

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Speaker 8: And at that.

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Speaker 13: Time, in the nineteen nineties, when Russia was in chaos,

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we thought we had Russia under lock and key. We

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thought we had a puppet government in there with Yelsen,

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and we could just expand NATO, we could do anything

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we wanted. All Russia would do is say yes, sir, yes, sir,

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how high would you like me to jump? Sir? And

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I think what happened was is then when Putin came in,

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who was remember appointed by Yelsin, we have simply assumed

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he would carry on in that same direction.

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Speaker 8: He didn't.

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Speaker 13: He began to reassert Russian national interests, including their you

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might say, their regional security interests. And even worse, Jay,

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I think this is something that people need to understand.

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Even worse, he abandoned communist ideology, I mean had already

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been abandoned in the nineteen nineties, and wanted to build

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Old Russia back as a strong national state with something

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of an orthodox Christian ethos to it, although it's still

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officially a secular state, and that was completely unacceptable to

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the globalist ideology that motivates American global American global quests

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for hegemony. That's the fundamental problem between the United States

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and Russia today.

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Speaker 8: I would say.

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Speaker 7: Several things there, but one to your to your point

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about the you know, the the sort of pre Soviet relations.

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If any of the listeners or you know, fellow gun

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history officionados, they'll be well aware of the fact that

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there was a lively arms trade between the Dissaarish regime

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and Americans, right small firms at the time relatively small

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firms like you know, Smith and Wesson sent revolvers that

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you know, Winchester, lover actions, all of these things like

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there were relatively normal trade relations by the standards of

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the day. Similarly, when we get to FDR, we have

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to understand that FDR was very, very soft on the communists.

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You can read, you know, any number of books on this.

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Garrett Garrett, and oh, I can't remember the other guy's

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name on the top of my head, but multiple people

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have heard about this kind of the origins of the

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American Old right. But coming up to the you know,

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the falling of the Wall, that moment where you know

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the Cold War was over. That reaction you brought up

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of oh, we can go back to being a normal

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country again. You know, we are no longer required to

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fight this global war is a common one. When you

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talked to you know, the paleo conservatives who you know,

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many of whom I'm lucky enough to know you I'm

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friends with and consider major intellectual influences. It was all right.

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We we were Cold warriors. We engaged in this in

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good faith. We thought that the issue was communism taking

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over the world. That is no longer a problem. So

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now America can be a country again. Yeah, and very

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clearly the neo conservatives won that. I don't know if

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they won the debate, but they got to be in charge,

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and so America became right the world police. So you've

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mentioned the sort of, you know, the rise of you know,

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Vladimir Putin. I'm I'm just gonna start off by saying

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I'm American enough that I cannot pronounce words from any

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other language. I apologize to everyone ahead of time.

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Speaker 8: But point is.

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Speaker 7: That sort of transition from you know, viewing Russia as

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sort of a potential like Lackey or kind of you know,

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economic zone for exploitation. We really can't talk about that

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without talking about George H. W. Bush and particularly the

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guarantees although these have become sort of controversial the US

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gave to Russia. Obviously this becomes relevant with the Russia

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Russia Ukraine War. Do you want to explain those a

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little bit for the listener?

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Speaker 13: Sure to start with, but just something you commented on

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and I think should be emphasized that I did miss

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is that during the Soviet period and certainly going all

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the way back to FDR, there was a very strong,

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if not sympathy for the Soviet Union, but at least

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kind of a benign attitude toward frankly Communism by progressive

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elements in the West and including in the American establishment.

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When I was at the Soviet desk in the State Department,

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I had the reputation well deserved, I hope, as being

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a cross eyed anti communist. Zalad which I was. My

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father at the time was the Air Force ATCHE in Moscow,

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so we could see the same operation from both sides

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of the of the you know, most from the Washington

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and Moscow standpoint.

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Speaker 10: This Christmas on Sky you can turn a silent nice

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pie into a stunning Troy It's two tens Lonstein.

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Speaker 14: A winter chill into an alley poly thrill.

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Speaker 11: Miss in the old Christmas run up, everyone squeezing in

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Speaker 8: Don't miss out.

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Speaker 13: And my colleagues, generally speaking, had a very benign view

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of the Soviet Union and communism as such. In fact,

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they were anti Russian, but communism was the only good

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thing about Russia. At least it was progressive and secular.

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I mean, I remember writing some papers, briefing papers where

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I suggested, you know, that non communist Russia would be

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a great thing, and they were horrified. I mean, the

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idea that it would be better if the whites had

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won the Civil War rather than the Reds was swimming.

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Oh but they were a bunch of fascists or you know,

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you know, so on and so forth. That was the

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attitude at the time. And uh and then you know,

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to my somewhat to my surprise, I guess, being a

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NAIU fellow, is that when communism fell, I say, well, great,

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that's wonderful, Russia is back.

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Speaker 8: We can get rid of about.

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Speaker 13: Communist They were horrified that same people have been very

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benign towards the sou Union as a communist state, became

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very very anti Russian. So, you know, again, I don't

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think we can underestimate the extent to which this progressive, globalist,

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essentially godless mindset that dominates the thinking of all the

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establishments in the Western country is a huge part of

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this antipathy toward Russia.

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Speaker 8: And that's all.

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Speaker 13: But they also hate people like Victor Orbon and Hungary

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and so forth, because they want to build a strong

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national state and even a Christian society, not one that

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shares their you know, worship the sacred Rainbow flag values.

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So there's a huge part of that. Now, back to

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what you said about George Bush, George Bush the elder,

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I would not make him out to be the major

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culprit here at all. I think he did give those assurances,

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and I think he probably gave them a good faith. Now,

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he probably assumed that that meant And remember he was

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the guy who coined the phrase the New World Order.

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Maybe he's the one who thought that, Okay, fine, we'll

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just pull Russia in as another satellite like the rest

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of Europe and everything will be well after that. But

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he did give those assurances, maybe he didn't think was

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necessary to expand NATO. It was actually Bill Clinton who

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of course pursued the first round of NATO expansion.

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Speaker 7: And.

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Speaker 13: He did so apparently largely for American domestic political reasons

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back then.

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Speaker 8: It seems quat to say so. Now.

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Speaker 13: Back then Illinois was actually in play for American presidential elections,

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and he was told, Hey, if you have promised expansion

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of NATO to include Poland, you'll get all the Polish

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votes in Chicago and you can carry Illinois. So he

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said that was a good idea. I don't think even

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thought that through, and he've kind of figured, well, Russians

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are flat on their backs, they can't object to it anyway.

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So that went forward. The real big crunch actually was

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not under Bill Clinton or on the Bush of the Elder,

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was under Bush the younger, because under him, that's when

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you really had the neo cons in the saddle, the

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same people that brought us into the Iraq War in

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two thousand and three. And that's when we had the

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big bang expansion in two thousand and four. And I

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remember I was working at the Senate at this time.

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There was a lot of by the way, there was

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a lot of opposition to the first round of NATO

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expansion back in nineteen ninety six. There were about ten

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left wing Democrats and ten right wing Republicans who opposed

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the first round of NATO expansion. When the second that

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was just Czechia, Hungary and Poland. When the second round

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went in for Romania, Bulgaria, Slovakia, the Baltic States, there

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was no opposition at all. Are they are already firmly

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in the saddle. We're going to do this. NATO will

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be the security guarantee in Europe and if the Russians

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don't like it, they can lump it. And remember two

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Ladive her Putin at that time wasn't necessarily opposed to

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any of that. In fact, he even contacted as early

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as as Bill Clinton, well, Russia would be interested in

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joining NATO as well, what do you think about that?

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And Clinton replied, well, yeah, that should be possible. And

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then of course he went back and talked to his

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advisors and they said, oh, no way, Jose, we're gonna

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let Russia into NATO. They're the object of NATO expansion,

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they're not a participant. And that's that's when things I

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think you know, really started to go off the rails

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with the Russians. Even then, it took the Russians a

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long time to wake up and smell the coffee. And

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I think what really really crunched it for them with

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two things. One was the bombing of Serbia in nineteen

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ninety nine, when all you know, I can remember people

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Russians saying to me, you know, anti communist Russians, for

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all these years, we never believed all the things the

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Communists said about you, about how aggressive you were. Now

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we know that that we're all true that the first thing.

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The second thing was in two thousand and eight, and

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this is something I was very involved with in opposing it,

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because I was working for the bishop, the Serbian Orthodox

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Bishop of Kosovo at that time, opposing American policy on Kosovo.

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And when we pushed through the claim that Kosovo was

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becoming an independent state in the two thousand and eight

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against security counts. Because you know, one of the things

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that when when the Russians would object to what you

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were talking about about the expansion of NATO, well, George

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Bush promised you we wouldn't expand NATO. And the answer

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was should have gotten writing, should have gotten writing.

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Speaker 8: Well.

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Speaker 13: In nineteen ninety nine, they did get in writing in

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a Security Council resolution that Koso even after the Natal aggression,

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that Kosovo would remain an autonomous province of Serbia. It's

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right there in twelve forty four, the Security Council resolution,

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and the Russians say, okay, we got in writing this time,

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and the Americans said, yeah, well, we don't care, rip

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rip rip, We're going to do it anyway. And that's

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when they realized, okay, all bets are off. And then

380
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of course, in the same year two thousand and eight,

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they said Ukraine and Georgia will become members of NATO,

382
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and that's when they realized, okay, we got it. That's

383
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when we passed in a way, that's when we passed

384
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the point of no return. That's when the Russians said, okay,

385
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we can't trust these people.

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Speaker 8: We have to.

387
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Speaker 13: Prepare self help measures of our own. That's when they

388
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began their military build up. That's when they began to

389
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say Redline and the sand and of course the thing

390
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the signal that was the short War in Georgia in

391
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:30,400
two thousand and eight, when you know the Selika Shaka

392
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sakash feel the president at the time launched an attack

393
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on the Russian peacekeepers in south of Sessia, killed a

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number of them, and the Russians felt they had to respond,

395
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and so you know that, you know, that's when the

396
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real shift came.

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Speaker 8: I'm sorry, I'm sort.

398
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Speaker 13: Of throwing this out there in a fog, but it's

399
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it's something that you know, sort of progressed through these stages.

400
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Speaker 7: So I want to pull back the timeline just a

401
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,200
little bit to talk about the global war on terror,

402
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:07,200
because if I'm correct, Russia was very accommodating to our response. Also,

403
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,759
as far as I understand, Putin was very gracious in

404
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the aftermath of the September eleventh attacks. So the the

405
00:21:14,839 --> 00:21:17,319
idea that this has been you know, this sort of

406
00:21:17,319 --> 00:21:21,079
like mutual antipathy forever, just doesn't hold up water at all.

407
00:21:21,519 --> 00:21:24,920
There were, you know, many actions in good faith saying here,

408
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,839
we will give you this gift, we will let you

409
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use our air bases to conduct this you know, ultimately

410
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,880
ill conceived invasion. But you know that's neither here nor there.

411
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It was nonetheless sort of a gift. And I'm glad

412
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you brought up the the uh, you know, action in

413
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in in Serbia, because it's interesting the way in which

414
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every one of America's enemies is sort of continually recast

415
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as Hitler. You know, you have obviously slovan On Melassovitch

416
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is Hitler. Saddam Hussein was Hitler, and now we have Putler, right,

417
00:21:58,559 --> 00:22:02,279
the sort of opid portmanteau of you know, the Russian

418
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and the.

419
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Speaker 8: Illustria lot Oftler.

420
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Speaker 7: Yeah, exactly. And so one of the things that I

421
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:18,440
have often thought about is certainly there is a you know,

422
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:24,680
the kind of general globalist antipathy to you know, a nationalized,

423
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a national state acting in its own self interest, particularly

424
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one kind of leaning towards you know, Christianity. But also

425
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and you know, I don't like to cast dispersions on

426
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,559
someone based off of their you know, ethnic background, but

427
00:22:38,599 --> 00:22:40,400
it is awfully suspicious that there are a lot of

428
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,160
Ukrainians or former Ukrainians in the State Department who seem

429
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,119
to really have an act to grind with Russia. Is

430
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:49,799
am I accurate in pointing that out?

431
00:22:50,319 --> 00:22:54,319
Speaker 13: Oh yeah, well again, and to tie it all together

432
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,400
back again, you're not old enough to remember this, but

433
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,599
back in the fifties, sixties, seventies, and eighties, there were

434
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:08,440
these ethnic lobbies in the United States that marketed themselves

435
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,279
as anti communists, but what they really were was the

436
00:23:11,319 --> 00:23:19,880
World War Two Losers Association. They were Hungarians, West Ukrainians, Poles.

437
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,519
I mean, the Poles were sort of a mixed bag

438
00:23:22,519 --> 00:23:24,039
in terms of how they came out of World War Two.

439
00:23:24,079 --> 00:23:27,279
They actually came out pretty well. They lost their eastern part,

440
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,319
which was largely Ukrainian and Beila Russian ethnically, but then

441
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,880
gained a lot of former German territory with the Germans

442
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,160
cleared out, so didn't work all that badly for them,

443
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although of course they suffered horrendously during the war. The

444
00:23:39,839 --> 00:23:41,880
long and the short of it is, these people did

445
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not like the borders that were drawn in Eastern Europe

446
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and Central Europe after World War Two.

447
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Speaker 8: They wanted to go.

448
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Speaker 13: Back basically to the borders that existed in nineteen forty

449
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three under German occupation. And if you look at a

450
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map in nineteen forty three and the map that diverged

451
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emerged after the Wars in the nineteen nineties, yeah, there's

452
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there's a lot of similarities there. Very different from the

453
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map that existed from nineteen forty.

454
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Speaker 8: Five to to to.

455
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Speaker 13: The nineteen nineties.

456
00:24:10,599 --> 00:24:11,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, so you did it.

457
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Speaker 13: And the thing is, and this is where we get

458
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into American politics too. Most Americans, if you will, you know,

459
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wasps ethnic Americans, people with no hyphen you know, attached

460
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to them, are very naive when it comes to ethnicity, religion,

461
00:24:25,319 --> 00:24:28,119
all these other markers of identity. Uh. You know, if

462
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you have a bunch of people with you know, Eastern

463
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European names that are saying, oh, yeah, we're I tell

464
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communists and we want to fight the Civic Union, they said, yeah, great,

465
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,680
were there there were the It doesn't even occur to them.

466
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They just have ethnic access to grind, you know that

467
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they just want to have their own ethnic states and

468
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large and the expense of the people who are the

469
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historic enemies. That was a huge part of this.

470
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Speaker 8: So yeah, you do have obviously.

471
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Speaker 15: A a lot of people with those ethnic backgrounds who say, hey,

472
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if we can get the Americans to on board to

473
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you know, call the people we don't like in their

474
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leader Hitler, we can go get them to put sanctions

475
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on and bomb for our behalf and reimpose our borders

476
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from nineteen forty three.

477
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Speaker 13: The other thing, of course, and of course is very

478
00:25:12,559 --> 00:25:16,920
controversial you have a huge Jewish element among the neo conservatives.

479
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,039
They've got their own ethnic access to I still remember

480
00:25:20,079 --> 00:25:22,640
one of my Jewish colleagues at the State Department back

481
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,319
in the nineteen eighties. You know, we're talking about polls

482
00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:29,079
and Russians and Ukrainians and Germans and all that, and

483
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,319
his answer was, well, as far as I'm concerned, Germans,

484
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,119
Polls and Russians all deserve each other.

485
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 6: Did you know employers can gift up to fifteen hundred

486
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487
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488
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489
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490
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491
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493
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me to You dot I ME to You supporting Irish retail.

494
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Speaker 16: This Christmas Come Together makes special memories and unwrap your

495
00:26:13,079 --> 00:26:19,359
Lindor moment irresistibly smooth melting chocolate from the lint Master's

496
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497
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498
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from lind.

499
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Speaker 13: Now, I don't think he was saying that as an American.

500
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,720
I think he was saying that projecting his own ethnic

501
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,279
points of view. And of course this is also where

502
00:26:42,279 --> 00:26:44,599
you get into, you know, the huge kind of you know,

503
00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:49,759
Trotsky eye element in the in the in the neo

504
00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:53,160
conservative movement, you know, back from to you know, Max Schachtman,

505
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,720
back in the nineteen thirties, Social Democrats USA and all

506
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:00,319
these people that flooded in, starting really with the Reagan

507
00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:02,920
administration but really coming into their own and the second

508
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,279
of the Bush, the Younger administration basically running the place,

509
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,559
and of course they have their own ethnic access to grind.

510
00:27:09,599 --> 00:27:13,000
They also have their their ideological hangover, you know, from

511
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,559
Trotsky against Styland. That is part of the way they

512
00:27:16,559 --> 00:27:20,079
look at the world. And unfortunately, again most Americans haven't

513
00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,200
got a clue about this stuff. They just think, oh yo,

514
00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:25,400
they're standing up for a strong America. Oh yeah, they're

515
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,880
finding common They have no idea what any of this

516
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,079
stuff is about, and they didn't in those days. That's

517
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,240
one reason they can be so influential.

518
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 7: Well, I mean to that point, in a much more

519
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,359
innocuous version, you see this with you know, Armenians in

520
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,039
the US. They have a powerful ethnic lobby, and you're

521
00:27:42,279 --> 00:27:45,519
always constantly trying to get different states and municipalities to,

522
00:27:46,079 --> 00:27:48,920
you know, recognize the Armenian genocide. Like, look, I'm not

523
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,400
a big fan of Turks. I imagine giving your ethnic

524
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,079
and religious background, you probably aren't either. But to be

525
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:55,119
perfectly honest.

526
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,599
Speaker 13: A Perkoff don has been simply delightful. But that's a

527
00:27:57,599 --> 00:27:58,480
whole other story.

528
00:27:58,279 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 7: Fair enough, But to be honest, I literally do not

529
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,440
see how it matters in the slightest what the city

530
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,920
of Jacksonville, Florida thinks about a genocide that happened one

531
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,559
hundred and ten years ago literally across the planet.

532
00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah, but here's an interesting thing.

533
00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 13: I mean, as you've pointed out, that was always the

534
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,799
holy grail for the Armenian lobby, which is a very

535
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:20,000
substantial lobby, although not as powerful as people think it is.

536
00:28:20,559 --> 00:28:23,759
And certainly they're they're on their back foot now. I mean,

537
00:28:23,799 --> 00:28:26,440
they've got nothing right now in Washington right now, especially

538
00:28:26,519 --> 00:28:30,319
since there's an American puppet Pashnyan as the Prime Minister there.

539
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 8: He's just a quizzling he's just the worst. But that's

540
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,200
a whole other topic. You know.

541
00:28:35,319 --> 00:28:37,759
Speaker 13: For years and years and years they wanted to get

542
00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:41,200
that genocide resolution through the Congress, and they couldn't do

543
00:28:41,319 --> 00:28:44,279
it because it was not only opposed by the Turkish lobby,

544
00:28:44,279 --> 00:28:46,359
which doesn't have a big ethnic lobby in the United States,

545
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:48,440
but they do have a lot of support from the

546
00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:51,960
national security apparatus because Turkey buys a lot of military equipment.

547
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,759
Speaker 8: They've got a lot of you know, clout there.

548
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 13: But their big ace in the hole was the Israeli

549
00:28:56,759 --> 00:29:00,759
lobby because for a lot of the period of the

550
00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:03,599
the post World War II into the Cold War period,

551
00:29:04,079 --> 00:29:09,319
Turkey and Israel were like this because Turkey was a kimalist, secular,

552
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,440
anti Islamic power and they were part of a big

553
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,599
part of Israel's strategy in the region. Well, that all

554
00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,400
ended with Airdlon when an Islamist comes to power, and

555
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,559
of course the Israelis and the Turks don't really really

556
00:29:22,559 --> 00:29:25,960
get along anymore, and the Israelis turned The reason they

557
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,039
didn't want that resolution going through was one they didn't

558
00:29:28,039 --> 00:29:30,359
want to fend their ally Turkey. And two they had

559
00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:33,000
that little copyright marker on the word genocide. They didn't

560
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,319
want anybody else have it. Well, as soon as Air

561
00:29:35,319 --> 00:29:38,599
Doolon came to power, they switched sides and that resolution

562
00:29:38,759 --> 00:29:41,720
went right through the Congress like nothing, because the Israelis

563
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,960
were now supporting it rather than opposing it.

564
00:29:46,039 --> 00:29:48,359
Speaker 7: Yeah, And the reason I brought that up is, you know,

565
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,400
I know, particularly strong opinions on Armenians. But you see

566
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,799
the same thing. You know, when you are an international empire,

567
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,599
when you control the world, everyone's ethnic problems become your

568
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,000
problem one way or another.

569
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 8: Yeah.

570
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,079
Speaker 13: It also and also you can manipulate them. I mean,

571
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:10,559
if your your goal is, as what Bill Crystal and

572
00:30:10,599 --> 00:30:13,640
Bob Kagan pointed out in a nineteen nineties nineteen ninety

573
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:19,559
six article, their goal should be American global hegemony forever.

574
00:30:20,119 --> 00:30:22,119
That's our goal to rule. You know, we keep here

575
00:30:22,119 --> 00:30:24,079
of Hittler one of the rule of the world. Well,

576
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:25,880
we do want to rule the world. That's how we

577
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,759
got into this juncture. That's why we've got not only

578
00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:31,839
this situation with the Russians in Eastern Europe, but you know,

579
00:30:31,839 --> 00:30:34,000
we got the situation with Iran we've got have a

580
00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:36,559
war with China, you know, in five years. According to

581
00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:39,319
a lot of people, the way they're talking, we want

582
00:30:39,319 --> 00:30:42,240
to rule the world. You have the American Anglo American,

583
00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:46,359
if you will, or Anglo Israel, American Fella, socratic global

584
00:30:46,359 --> 00:30:50,799
empire against the kind of the Eurasian Block, which is Russia, China,

585
00:30:50,839 --> 00:30:53,440
Iran and a few other countries and a few outliers

586
00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:56,920
like like Venezuela. That's the situation we've got ourselves into.

587
00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:01,119
And I don't see much of any way out of it.

588
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,680
And you're right, this hitler of the month, you know,

589
00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:05,000
I guess, I guess Maduro is now the new hitler

590
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,039
of the month. You know, Sadi Mussein was, Asad was,

591
00:31:09,119 --> 00:31:12,079
Milosia Vis was. By the way, I testified as as

592
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:16,440
offense witness in Milosia Vic's trial at the Hague. And

593
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,400
you know, it's what kind of say, it's all lies,

594
00:31:20,839 --> 00:31:21,599
it's all lies.

595
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,759
Speaker 8: And basically they they.

596
00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 13: Lie, they lie like Bolsheviks because essentially they are Bolsheviks.

597
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,039
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, there's there's definitely something to that. I mean,

598
00:31:35,079 --> 00:31:38,440
the look, I don't want to turn this into a

599
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,039
discussion about about Venezuela. Uh, but you know, very clearly

600
00:31:43,599 --> 00:31:46,839
the narrative being presented to us in the mainstream media

601
00:31:46,839 --> 00:31:50,880
about Venezuela's is complete and tooital nonsense. Yeah, and look

602
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,759
like Okay, is invading Venezuela a mistake on the order

603
00:31:53,759 --> 00:31:57,519
of magnitude of invading Afghanistan? Okay, maybe not, but that

604
00:31:57,599 --> 00:31:59,799
is not a great justification for doing anything.

605
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:00,799
Speaker 8: Right.

606
00:32:01,079 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 13: We'll find not when it happens, I guess would make

607
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,799
sure how to be even bigger mistake.

608
00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:05,279
Speaker 8: We don't know.

609
00:32:06,359 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 7: So I want to continue with our narrative on you know,

610
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,200
the US in Russia and move up to sort of

611
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,920
the mid two thousand tents, right, the kind of end

612
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:20,000
of the Obama era, which is I think the first

613
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,160
time that many Americans, myself included, became aware of the

614
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,960
fact that one Ukraine was not a part of Russia, right,

615
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,200
that it was its own country, and that there was,

616
00:32:29,359 --> 00:32:32,359
you know, a border dispute going on between you know,

617
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,079
the Ukraine and Russia. And I have a very actually

618
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:37,160
I've probably tipped my hand by saying the Ukraine. They're

619
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,839
all mad at me already. But I remember very distinctly

620
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,359
I was on a plane as a teenager, and I

621
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,519
remember there was a Ukrainian woman speaking to some colleague

622
00:32:47,559 --> 00:32:51,039
directly in front of me, just all upset about this,

623
00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:53,240
this dispute, you know, just horribly offended. You know the

624
00:32:53,319 --> 00:32:55,640
US needs to go in. So could you provide a

625
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,640
little bit of context on you know, the kind of

626
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,720
initial I armed conflicts in you know, the twenty fourteen era.

627
00:33:04,759 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 13: Yeah, but I think again this takes a little back up.

628
00:33:08,599 --> 00:33:11,079
I mean, you say, you know, Ukrainians being very offended, etc.

629
00:33:14,039 --> 00:33:18,599
How do I put this difference between Russians Ukrainians, Beila,

630
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:22,839
Russians is essentially like the difference between you know, Saxons,

631
00:33:22,839 --> 00:33:26,559
Bavarians and Prussians, who are basically all Germans or for

632
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,359
that matter, Austrians that you know, I mean, the difference

633
00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:33,400
between a Bavarian and an Austrian is virtually zero. I mean,

634
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,559
the difference between a Bavarian and Prussian is much greater

635
00:33:35,599 --> 00:33:38,400
than the difference between a Bavarian and an Austrian in

636
00:33:38,519 --> 00:33:42,519
terms of language, religion, history, and so forth. The fact

637
00:33:42,519 --> 00:33:46,200
that there is a Ukrainian state is essentially came into

638
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,519
existence in nineteen ninety one is essentially an accident of

639
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,319
history caused by the way the Bolsheviks drew lines within

640
00:33:54,359 --> 00:33:58,119
the Soviet Union. You know, during during the communist era,

641
00:34:00,279 --> 00:34:04,400
has been a Ukrainian state, a viable Ukrainian state and history,

642
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,279
and you know, it only came into existence because of

643
00:34:07,319 --> 00:34:09,599
the way the Sovietion happened to fall apart in.

644
00:34:09,599 --> 00:34:12,199
Speaker 8: Nineteen ninety one. The Russians accepted that.

645
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 13: They basically said, you know, to think of it in

646
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,239
terms of saying, well, you know, I suppose if one

647
00:34:17,519 --> 00:34:19,840
Germany was defeated in World War iiO, not only was

648
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,920
Austria made into a separate country again, suppose they said, okay,

649
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,599
Bavaria is now going to be become a separate, separate

650
00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:28,360
country too. Actually, Bavaria does have a history of being

651
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:35,000
a separate kingdom under the Writtelsbach dynasty, suppose, but the

652
00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:39,400
Russian attitude toward that was fairly copathetic. Well, okay, Ukrainians

653
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,039
are essentially another kind of Russian in the broad sense.

654
00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:45,639
They're all Ruts so to speak, based on historical and

655
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:49,280
religious and other circumstances. But now they have a separate state.

656
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,840
They never had one before, but they have one now.

657
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,960
It's kind of a very what's the word I want

658
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,159
incoherent state. In the Senate that you have a lot

659
00:35:01,199 --> 00:35:04,639
of people in it that never really consider themselves Ukrainians,

660
00:35:04,679 --> 00:35:07,320
except that's the way the Soviet Union drew the lines.

661
00:35:07,559 --> 00:35:08,639
Speaker 8: But hey, we can live.

662
00:35:08,519 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 13: With that a lot, as long as it's as long

663
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,400
as you know, we're all getting along with everybody in Europe,

664
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,159
everybody in the West. NATO is not threatening us. When

665
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,960
NATO began to threaten them by expansion, that became a concern.

666
00:35:21,079 --> 00:35:22,039
Speaker 8: And then when.

667
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 13: In two thousand and eight then the North Atlantic Council

668
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:33,199
declared that Georgia and Ukraine will become part of NATO,

669
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,880
that's when the Russians drew the line. And even at

670
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:44,079
the time William Burns, who just was Biden's CIA director,

671
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,239
was the ambassador in Moscow at the time. He wrote

672
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:50,599
a memo back to Washington and said, and yet means yet, no,

673
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,760
means no. They will not accept this, and even that

674
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,000
they were not willing to.

675
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:56,519
Speaker 8: Pull it back.

676
00:35:56,559 --> 00:36:00,119
Speaker 13: I mean because of their mania for global domination and

677
00:36:00,159 --> 00:36:03,000
putting Russia in a position where it simply could not

678
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:07,960
defend itself, where we would be able to fatally compromise

679
00:36:08,519 --> 00:36:12,159
their national security by bringing Ukraine into NATO and building

680
00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:15,199
up a NATO force there and putting NATO weapons into Ukraine.

681
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 8: They didn't care about that.

682
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 13: They were simply were, you know, playing chess on the board.

683
00:36:18,599 --> 00:36:21,159
We will put Russia in this position, forced them back

684
00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:25,599
into the satellite status they had under Yeltsin in the

685
00:36:25,679 --> 00:36:29,400
nineteen nineties, and eventually, I would say, break Russia up

686
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,719
in smaller pieces that are more easily digestible. And so

687
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,920
that's where we you know, that's where Ukraine became essentially

688
00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,920
what I would call it attractive nuisance, became a football

689
00:36:40,679 --> 00:36:45,880
or a platform where we could then expand our anti

690
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,519
Russia policy in a way that fatally compromised Russian security,

691
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:51,599
and they thought they could get away with it. I mean,

692
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:54,360
that's why we had two revolutions, not just the Orange

693
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,000
Revolution in two thousand and four, and that when that

694
00:36:57,079 --> 00:36:59,920
really didn't pan out and it fizzled. And then YADAKOVI,

695
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,599
by the way, I worked for back as a lobbyist

696
00:37:03,639 --> 00:37:05,360
back in two thousand and three to two thousand and

697
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:10,079
five when he was Prime Minister of the Ukraine and

698
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,719
then a presidential candidate that.

699
00:37:15,039 --> 00:37:17,320
Speaker 8: They you know what, He.

700
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 13: Then won the election in twenty ten, and b by

701
00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:21,199
I said, oh, he's pro Russian.

702
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 8: He wasn't.

703
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,559
Speaker 13: He was actually somebody who wanted to maintain this neutral,

704
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,599
this neutral position for Ukraine because he realized Ukraine is

705
00:37:28,639 --> 00:37:31,400
such a divided country. If it attempted to go to

706
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,599
either one camp or the other, the Western camp or

707
00:37:33,599 --> 00:37:36,199
the Russian camp, it would tear the country apart, which

708
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,039
is precisely what happened. So he was always insistent, no,

709
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,679
Ukraine must be a bridge, not a wall. It must

710
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,719
be a bridge between east and west. You know, when

711
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,280
he was overthrown in the Waidan Revolution in twenty fourteen,

712
00:37:47,599 --> 00:37:53,800
he was overthrown because he wanted modifications, not even a rejection,

713
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,400
but modifications on a trade deal with the European Union.

714
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,719
That what utterly devastated industry, especially in the eastern part

715
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,960
of the country, which was his electoral base. And also

716
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:07,719
because what he wanted and also what the Russians wanted.

717
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:09,519
They say, well, look, if you can have a trade

718
00:38:09,519 --> 00:38:12,599
relationship between Ukraine and the EU, why not make it

719
00:38:12,639 --> 00:38:16,519
a three way negotiation between Russia, Ukraine and the European Union,

720
00:38:16,599 --> 00:38:20,039
so we could have one big trade pack that accommodates everybody,

721
00:38:20,119 --> 00:38:22,760
both east and West, and also has Ukraine in a

722
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:26,239
position have a relationship with both blocks that was unacceptable

723
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:27,960
to the West. They said, no, you must take the

724
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,920
Western path. No other path is possible for you. Yanikovich says, well,

725
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,320
we can't do that, well, then we'll overthrow you, which

726
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:34,920
is what we did.

727
00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:40,559
Speaker 7: And that's one of the And again, I am not

728
00:38:41,559 --> 00:38:44,719
I'm not a I would not consider myself a Rusiphile.

729
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,239
To me, I view Putin as someone who is You've

730
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,199
got the interest of his country at heart, which I admire,

731
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,400
but his country is not my country.

732
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,280
Speaker 8: Right, yeah, fair enough.

733
00:38:55,559 --> 00:39:02,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, But nonetheless I've grown to resent Ukraine really because

734
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,320
of the last several years, and a large part of

735
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:13,639
that is the bizarre insistence of the sacredness of not

736
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:15,639
the correct form that word will go with it, of

737
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,320
Ukrainian democracy, the idea that this is some you know, perfect,

738
00:39:19,639 --> 00:39:23,480
you know, Western style political system, and obviously you have

739
00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:25,559
what you've just mentioned, the sort of you know, back

740
00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:28,280
and forth, you know, revolutions and counter revolutions. Over the

741
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:29,079
past ten years.

742
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 12: Oh, Amy, my little one, I ask myself a million

743
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,920
questions every day. When will you give me your first smile?

744
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How much sleep do you need? How can I help

745
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you and your big brother to get along at.

746
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,960
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747
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750
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751
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Speaker 2: And now a look at the forecast. We're seeing lots

752
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753
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term outlook that's bright for Ireland.

754
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,880
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755
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758
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Speaker 7: But also the fact that Ukraine is horribly corrupt and

759
00:40:35,159 --> 00:40:38,480
persecuting Christians. So if you could, could you speak to

760
00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:41,280
a little bit to the kind of corruption of the

761
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,840
Ukrainian government. I mean, obviously there's been a big reveal

762
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,000
on that relatively recently. But also the you know, the

763
00:40:47,039 --> 00:40:49,840
anti Christian I mean, to be honest, if it were

764
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,000
a different group, we might use the term pergrop.

765
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, you know, there are two fatal flaws maybe

766
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,079
three of the can geography. But two fatal flaws of

767
00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:02,519
Ukraine when he became an independent state. One, as we mentioned,

768
00:41:02,599 --> 00:41:05,679
was sort of the diversity of the country. People in

769
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,840
it who had really nothing in common in terms of

770
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,760
how they interpreted their identity. Had people in the east

771
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,599
that were basically Russians. People in the west far west

772
00:41:15,679 --> 00:41:18,760
especially there were Ukrainian nationalists. People in between their sort

773
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:21,280
of mushy they didn't agree on what Ukraine was. You

774
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,719
had that, But as you point out, the corruption, I mean,

775
00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:27,199
just like Russia in the nineteen nineties was controlled basically

776
00:41:27,199 --> 00:41:32,199
the whole socialist property of the Soviet Union that theory

777
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,400
belonged to everybody but really belonged to the state, became

778
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,719
just was shamelessly looted by various oligarchs who found themselves

779
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:44,719
in control with vast amounts of wealth. That was true

780
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,920
in Russia, putting as largely brought those people under control,

781
00:41:48,039 --> 00:41:50,320
but it was certainly true in Ukraine and continues to

782
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,679
be true today, where basically the state is very weak

783
00:41:54,199 --> 00:41:58,039
and these oligarchic interests treat the state as their plaything

784
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:01,280
for enriching themselves and holding on and using their wealth

785
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,880
to buy political power. And that's the condition that is

786
00:42:05,039 --> 00:42:07,119
Ukraine has always been in and the level of corruption,

787
00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:09,960
and let's face it, not not only just under this regime,

788
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,280
but any of the previous governments was shameless, I mean

789
00:42:13,519 --> 00:42:15,880
enough to make a Nigerian prince blush. I mean it's

790
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,760
just the worst. And that continues to be true. Now

791
00:42:21,159 --> 00:42:25,360
as far as the church situation goes, this is again

792
00:42:25,519 --> 00:42:29,280
where the United States. You know, a lot of people

793
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:33,480
tend to be rather dismissive of religion as a geopolitical force,

794
00:42:33,559 --> 00:42:35,960
I mean as something People like Jay Dyer, for example,

795
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,559
have pointed out that the United States has a very

796
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:43,039
long history of using religion as a tool of influence.

797
00:42:43,079 --> 00:42:44,920
You know, going back to the World Council of Churches,

798
00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:47,760
you know, the CIA is very close relationship with people

799
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,440
in the in the in the Vatican and also in

800
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:55,320
the Faunar, which is the headquarters of the UH, the

801
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:57,880
the Church of Constantinople, they have cu medical patriarchate in

802
00:42:58,119 --> 00:43:03,079
the Orthodox world. UH. They saw an opportunity to split,

803
00:43:03,559 --> 00:43:08,320
not only politically split Ukraine from Russia, but also spiritually

804
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,559
to split Ukraine from Russia because one of the things

805
00:43:10,599 --> 00:43:13,719
that really binds Russians and Ukrainians and beelo Russians and

806
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,840
Moldovans and frankly you know Serbs and Bulgarians and Greeks

807
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:17,639
and other people.

808
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,400
Speaker 8: Is their common Orthodox faith. How do you do that? Well,

809
00:43:21,519 --> 00:43:23,039
you know there are there, there are.

810
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,280
Speaker 13: In many countries small schismatic groups that are not in

811
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,639
communion with, you know, the established, recognized Canonical Church. And

812
00:43:31,679 --> 00:43:33,519
there are a couple of groups like that in Ukraine.

813
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,599
And what the United States did, in concert with the

814
00:43:37,639 --> 00:43:42,119
Patriarch of Constantinople, which is strongly under American influence, is

815
00:43:42,159 --> 00:43:44,159
to say, well, let's take a couple of these small

816
00:43:44,199 --> 00:43:48,400
splinter groups and recognize them as the legitimate Ukrainian Orthodox Church,

817
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:52,639
and take the canonical Church and de recognize them and

818
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:57,159
call them schismatics and pro Russian agents, and then have

819
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:01,000
the state come in crush them, seize their property, their priests,

820
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,559
and try to transfer all that property to the new

821
00:44:04,639 --> 00:44:07,760
church that we've created and called the canonical Church. So

822
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,079
that's what's going on. You have a state supported church

823
00:44:10,679 --> 00:44:15,679
based on some really marginal, uh split splinter group figures

824
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,039
that have now been elevated by the state to the

825
00:44:18,119 --> 00:44:21,800
to the official church, while the real church, which is

826
00:44:22,119 --> 00:44:26,119
the majority of the population, is being being crushed simply

827
00:44:26,159 --> 00:44:29,119
by by police and mob methods where they said, people

828
00:44:29,119 --> 00:44:31,800
into the church, they you know, they they lock up

829
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,400
the church, throw the parishioners out, turn it over to

830
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,199
the new body that they recognize. Very often the church

831
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,320
then simply stays locked or unused because there are no

832
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:43,760
parishioners or clergy to serve that church anymore. And the

833
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:48,679
and the real parishioners are forced to hold services and

834
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,920
private houses or or or in the forest, you know,

835
00:44:52,039 --> 00:44:54,639
things that they used to do back under under the Bolsheviks.

836
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,079
The priests are arrested, they're they're sometimes drafted into the army.

837
00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:00,800
There was one case of a father what was his name, Mikolas,

838
00:45:01,079 --> 00:45:03,679
who was drafted, sent in the army and was thereafter

839
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,679
killed on the front. Maybe it was just shot down

840
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,840
by the Ukrainian authorities, we don't really know. There are

841
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:10,800
a couple of bishops who.

842
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 8: Are in jail.

843
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 13: So this is basically a campaign against the Church that

844
00:45:16,119 --> 00:45:19,320
is recognized by almost all of the Orthodox world except

845
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,480
for a couple of jurisdictions like Constantinople that earn their

846
00:45:22,559 --> 00:45:23,760
strong American influence.

847
00:45:24,039 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 8: And again, in fact, there'll.

848
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,159
Speaker 13: Be a day on Capitol Hill coming up here on

849
00:45:29,199 --> 00:45:32,519
December sixteenth, I'll be participating in where we'll be going

850
00:45:32,559 --> 00:45:36,440
to correct congressional offices trying to highlight what our government

851
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,519
is supporting over there, which is against. By the way,

852
00:45:39,559 --> 00:45:42,519
I was one of the authors of the International Religious

853
00:45:42,559 --> 00:45:45,880
Freedom Act back in the nineteen nineties that tried to

854
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,960
highlight religious freedom as an elegant of American policy. Unfortunately,

855
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,920
it simply became another tool by which we can manipulate

856
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:56,639
affairs abroad to say, oh, we have we support religious freedom.

857
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:58,800
Ukraine should have their own church. Well, it's really this

858
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,480
fake church manufacture for political reasons.

859
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,639
Speaker 7: It's it's somewhat ridiculous hypothetical. But if you can imagine

860
00:46:08,639 --> 00:46:11,440
a sort of red Dawn situation right where the you know,

861
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,599
the Cubans take over America and then they, you know,

862
00:46:15,119 --> 00:46:20,039
instantial the Westboro Baptist Church is the only legitimate religious organization,

863
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,000
it would be absurd, right, clearly, no one would go

864
00:46:24,079 --> 00:46:27,159
to very few people, would you know. And again, right,

865
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:27,599
it's just.

866
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 13: The FBI goes over to Liberty University, shuts it down

867
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:33,920
and puts the Westborough people in charge of it and

868
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,800
says this is a now legitimate Baptist Church in uh

869
00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:38,280
in In in Lensburg.

870
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,639
Speaker 7: You know, maybe maybe it's a funny idea.

871
00:46:43,039 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 8: Let's let's not give them ideas.

872
00:46:45,039 --> 00:46:46,639
Speaker 7: Yeah, let's take that in the back pocket.

873
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:47,519
Speaker 8: Uh.

874
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,079
Speaker 7: That's that's sort of a situation of it might be

875
00:46:50,079 --> 00:46:53,360
funny enough to be worth it, but anyway, in in

876
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,320
sort of a more more serious Uh.

877
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 8: Note.

878
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:58,039
Speaker 7: One of the other things there's obviously been a result

879
00:46:58,159 --> 00:47:02,320
of this conflict has been a massive exodus from the country.

880
00:47:02,599 --> 00:47:05,400
You know, some of this is draft dodging, but another

881
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,920
part of it is women and children fleeing a war zone.

882
00:47:09,559 --> 00:47:13,119
Even a relatively surgical war is still dangerous. Right, There's

883
00:47:13,199 --> 00:47:17,079
nothing to be really done about that. And so what

884
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:21,519
do you see as the future for Ukraine? Like, assuming that,

885
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,960
if it were possible, we could freeze the conflict line,

886
00:47:25,039 --> 00:47:28,239
you know, put some sort of DMZ, what becomes of

887
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:31,840
the nation, because in my mind, very regrettably, it seems

888
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,320
to be ruined, genuinely, just completely ruined.

889
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 8: Yeah.

890
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 13: At the time Ukraine became independent in nineteen ninety one,

891
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:44,440
it was probably the most wealthy on a per capita

892
00:47:44,519 --> 00:47:48,400
basis of all the former Soviet republics, if not the

893
00:47:48,559 --> 00:47:51,199
it was pretty close to the top. It had something

894
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,320
around fifty million, maybe as slightly more than fifty million

895
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,199
people in it within its nineteen ninety one borders. That

896
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,480
fell off, like a lot of the former Soviet and

897
00:48:01,639 --> 00:48:06,920
other socialist republics in Eastern Europe, fell rather markedly following

898
00:48:07,039 --> 00:48:10,280
independence because a lot of people at that point they

899
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,159
saw greener pastors in the West and they left, and

900
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,599
so you already had some falling off from the Ukrainians.

901
00:48:15,639 --> 00:48:18,440
So it was under fifty million. When Yadikovich became president.

902
00:48:18,559 --> 00:48:22,360
He campaigned on you know, fifty million Ukrainians as one

903
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:25,840
of his campaign themes. If I understand the rumors correctly,

904
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:27,800
he personally was trying to contribute to that as much

905
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:33,360
as possible, as is not atypical for politicians in this

906
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,039
part of the world. But when this war started, okay,

907
00:48:37,119 --> 00:48:40,280
let's keep in mind, you know, you know, Crime was

908
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,440
taken by the Russians, the Eastern Oblasts, so you probably

909
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:49,199
have right there several million people that were no longer

910
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:53,119
in part of Ukraine controlled by the Kiev regime, a

911
00:48:53,159 --> 00:48:55,960
lot of people leaving. You have, if you listen to

912
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,920
people like Colonel Douglas McGregor, we probably have something like

913
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,480
one point eight million Ukrainian soldiers that have been killed

914
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,199
in this war, which is I mean, that's a substantial

915
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,199
chunk of a population. I'd be surprised if there's still

916
00:49:08,199 --> 00:49:11,639
twenty million people left in the part of Ukraine that

917
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:16,159
they give regime controls. How many are in the Russian

918
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:21,880
controlled area, I don't really know. Probably you know, five

919
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,480
to seven millions something like that, I mean Ukraine. And

920
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,199
now it's apparently their birth rate. I mean, as you know,

921
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,519
you need like two point two to two point three

922
00:49:32,079 --> 00:49:35,840
babies per woman to keep even a level of population,

923
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:40,000
much less grow. I think there's something like zero point

924
00:49:40,519 --> 00:49:44,199
nine three or something like that. They are below one percent,

925
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:47,840
I mean one child per woman now in terms of

926
00:49:48,519 --> 00:49:51,280
in terms of replacement. And by the way, just to digress,

927
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:54,719
I saw a debate between Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Davis and

928
00:49:55,079 --> 00:49:58,159
General Ben Hodges recently. At Hodges says, well, they have

929
00:49:58,199 --> 00:50:01,239
to keep fighting. There are two million Ukrainian men and

930
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:03,440
women that still can be put into the army and

931
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,719
fight this war. I said, what kind of maniac not

932
00:50:07,159 --> 00:50:09,519
wants to send not only more men into this meat grinder,

933
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,599
but wants to send women into I mean you're trying

934
00:50:12,599 --> 00:50:16,639
to kill off any demographic potential in this place. That's

935
00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:20,280
certainly the way to do it. The Russians and I,

936
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,760
you know, and I've been very critical of this, uh

937
00:50:23,079 --> 00:50:26,559
you know, I let me, let's cut to the chase.

938
00:50:27,159 --> 00:50:29,559
The only way this war can end is in a

939
00:50:29,639 --> 00:50:33,599
Russian victory. The Russians cannot lose this war because it

940
00:50:33,639 --> 00:50:35,679
would be it would be fatal for them from their

941
00:50:35,679 --> 00:50:38,840
secured point of view. For then, this is an existential war.

942
00:50:39,159 --> 00:50:41,800
They must win this war no matter what happens, no

943
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,320
matter what the West throws at them, and they will one.

944
00:50:44,199 --> 00:50:44,760
Speaker 8: Way or the other.

945
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,039
Speaker 13: The trouble is is they don't seem to want to

946
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:53,280
do it in a you know, you know, you look,

947
00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,159
we saw how the Israelis decapitated his Bollah. They tried

948
00:50:56,159 --> 00:51:01,559
to decapitate the UH, the the Iranian government. The Russians,

949
00:51:01,599 --> 00:51:04,400
for whatever reasons, are not doing anything to try to

950
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,639
decapitate the Kiev regime. I mean, they basically have not

951
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,840
struck in the presidential administration, the SBU, which is the

952
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:15,360
Ukrainian KGB, the military intelligence, the Rada, which is department,

953
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,719
they haven't done any of that stuff. Instead, their policy

954
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,199
is one of killing as many Ukrainian soldiers as the

955
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,400
front as possible as a way to demilitarize Ukraine. And

956
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,639
I think they hope force the other side to cry uncle.

957
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,199
If they keep killing more Ukrainian soldiers in the front,

958
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,960
keep taking more territory, the other side will find the

959
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,039
cry uncle. Say fine, fine, will agree to your terms.

960
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 8: I don't think that's going to happen.

961
00:51:39,519 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 13: So you say, what's the future for Ukraine right now?

962
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:47,000
Its future is continued deppopulation by basically killing off all

963
00:51:47,039 --> 00:51:49,639
their manpower. As Andre martianovk call said, well, you're going

964
00:51:49,679 --> 00:51:54,239
to kill off ukraine sperm bank. Well that, you know,

965
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,599
even if they're not you know, as they're falsely accused

966
00:51:57,639 --> 00:52:00,760
of doing, you know, bombing civilian areas, tell it to terrorizing.

967
00:52:01,199 --> 00:52:03,800
Even if they're not doing that, they're still killing a

968
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,320
awful lot of Ukrainians who are in uniform. Okay, fine,

969
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:09,559
their military targets, this's just war. I understand that. But

970
00:52:09,679 --> 00:52:13,039
they are depopulating Ukraine's certainly on the male side, almost

971
00:52:13,599 --> 00:52:15,920
basically very close to what happened to all the European

972
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:17,599
countries in World War One, where you look at the

973
00:52:17,639 --> 00:52:20,559
democratic chart and you see that big notch on the

974
00:52:20,559 --> 00:52:22,320
male side where all those men died.

975
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:25,960
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984
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985
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986
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987
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Kiana Differ, Pusherlina Basia and La Sho Groan and Olagodkri

988
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989
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on post punkontil slash Christmas.

990
00:53:23,199 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 13: During World War One and d you see a second

991
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,760
notch further down where all the children where those men

992
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:31,280
would have fathered didn't get born. Well, that's what's happening

993
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,840
to Ukraine now, and that is the Russian policy I

994
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,840
think is based on very bad political calculus of thinking

995
00:53:38,079 --> 00:53:42,239
that they if they inflict enough pain on Ukraine, their

996
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,880
Western sponsors will finally give up. And I don't think

997
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:47,559
they will. And in fact, as we see from Europe

998
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:51,280
every day, they're actually preparing for war with Russia. And

999
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,599
I think, unfortunately, as long as this war keeps going,

1000
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:55,599
that war becomes more and more likely.

1001
00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 7: Certainly, the look as someone who sort of has you know,

1002
00:54:03,039 --> 00:54:07,519
my personal background and you know, political realism, the Italian

1003
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:11,039
elite theorists, I understand that, Look, we live in a

1004
00:54:11,079 --> 00:54:15,760
fallen world. Human politics is a nasty and dangerous game.

1005
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,719
I understand that. But there is something I do find

1006
00:54:19,639 --> 00:54:24,239
personally morally affronting about this war. It bothers me a

1007
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:29,239
on that on a spiritual level almost And the case

1008
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,400
of you know, Arina Zarutzka is sort of the perfect

1009
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:35,400
exemplification of that. That this is someone whose country has

1010
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,800
been entirely destroyed to you know, feed this sort of godless,

1011
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:45,000
satanic globalist empire. This woman has been displaced across the world,

1012
00:54:46,119 --> 00:54:48,360
done what she's supposed to do, right, gotten a job,

1013
00:54:48,599 --> 00:54:51,400
you know, started some semblance of a life, and that empire,

1014
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:55,800
which is nominally American, is so uninterested in running the

1015
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,679
country named America in any sort of way that this

1016
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,000
woman and is hacked to death by someone who should

1017
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:08,559
have been executed decades ago. And to me and you

1018
00:55:08,679 --> 00:55:11,639
hear this often in we could broadly call it kind

1019
00:55:11,639 --> 00:55:14,400
of non interventionist circles, but you know, we'll take this

1020
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,519
slur on is the idea that either the American Empire

1021
00:55:18,639 --> 00:55:22,119
survives or the American nation survives, you can only pick one.

1022
00:55:23,079 --> 00:55:27,039
And to me, the fact that our leaders are choosing

1023
00:55:27,119 --> 00:55:32,119
the empire over the nation, casting themselves as humanitarians while

1024
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:35,400
pushing an entire country which admittedly, I'll be honest, I

1025
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,719
don't care about Ukraine deeply. It's not a country that

1026
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,960
I have any sort of attachment to. But they are

1027
00:55:40,519 --> 00:55:42,760
human beings, you know, it is a is a Christian

1028
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:46,599
European nominal country. And to see that being fed into

1029
00:55:46,639 --> 00:55:50,480
a meat grinder, and for what the country will they

1030
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:54,639
will there's no possible way that they will maintain the

1031
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,159
borders that you know we're pre existing before this war

1032
00:55:57,519 --> 00:56:00,559
is pointless. And sure, you know it may by you

1033
00:56:00,639 --> 00:56:02,719
know a certain number of mc mansions and you know

1034
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,159
a few counties in northern Virginia that might be helpful

1035
00:56:05,199 --> 00:56:09,320
for someone. But to me, that's the part that I

1036
00:56:09,639 --> 00:56:12,480
just find just completely unconscionable.

1037
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 13: It is. You know, I referred to my colleague at

1038
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:18,559
the State Department and said, the Germans, the Polls, and

1039
00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:21,039
Russians all deserve each other. I'm sure you've heard some

1040
00:56:21,199 --> 00:56:23,400
people look back at World War Two and said, you know,

1041
00:56:23,519 --> 00:56:26,039
what we should have done is just let the Soviets

1042
00:56:26,119 --> 00:56:28,519
and the Nazis fight each other and kill kill, kill

1043
00:56:28,559 --> 00:56:31,719
off as money Germans and Russians as we can, and

1044
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,360
that would have been to our benefit, which is a

1045
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,320
pretty horrible thought when you think about it. I mean,

1046
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:41,000
you look at the demographic catastrophe that Europe suffered in

1047
00:56:41,079 --> 00:56:44,000
World War One, and then you want to give it

1048
00:56:44,039 --> 00:56:46,519
another round in World War Two, which is what happened.

1049
00:56:47,199 --> 00:56:50,159
I mean, you know, in retrospect that may have out

1050
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:55,079
turned out to be have been fatal for European Christian civilization,

1051
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:59,760
not only spiritually but even demographically the way things are going,

1052
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,440
and I can't help with thee that are some people

1053
00:57:02,519 --> 00:57:04,599
that are looking at this, you know, as they say,

1054
00:57:04,639 --> 00:57:06,960
fight to the last Ukrainian and kill as many Russians

1055
00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:10,519
as possible. Hey, look, even if ten Ukrainians are dying,

1056
00:57:11,559 --> 00:57:14,719
to kill every one Russian, even if it's not lopsided,

1057
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,320
at least we're killing that one Russian. So let's keep

1058
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:20,119
this going as long as possible. More Ukrainians and Russians

1059
00:57:20,159 --> 00:57:22,800
that die, the better it is for us. I think

1060
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:24,639
there are people who think that way. I think that's

1061
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:26,760
the people who have that point of view.

1062
00:57:27,199 --> 00:57:28,679
Speaker 8: And then why do they do it?

1063
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,519
Speaker 13: Well, what you said earlier, maintain the American global empire

1064
00:57:32,519 --> 00:57:34,519
at all costs. And you know, as I said, this

1065
00:57:34,639 --> 00:57:38,960
war is certainly existential for Russia on a national security

1066
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,559
point of view, because they have a very sober idea

1067
00:57:41,559 --> 00:57:43,960
of the national security. They're on borders to start with,

1068
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,960
they're near abroad, their immediate region, next after that, then

1069
00:57:48,039 --> 00:57:51,360
European and Eurasian affairs, and then finally global affairs. The

1070
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,239
United States has the exact pass Awkwards way of looking

1071
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:57,679
at the world, where the last thing on our agenda

1072
00:57:58,159 --> 00:58:00,320
is our own national security and our own res agion.

1073
00:58:00,679 --> 00:58:03,960
But rather we look at our vital national security interests

1074
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,679
in the South China Sea or in the Middle East

1075
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:08,880
or in Eastern Europe, places have nothing to do with

1076
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:14,360
the United States. Ignore the welfare, the prosperity, the security

1077
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,360
of the American people, both domestically and well, one thing

1078
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:19,079
I'll get credit for it to the Trump at least

1079
00:58:19,199 --> 00:58:21,719
he seems to have tightened up the border situation, which

1080
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:23,960
is something you know, very very important. So let's not

1081
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:27,519
to neglect that. But historically that's been one of the

1082
00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:32,039
least concerns of the American national security perspective, which you know,

1083
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,719
is far more concerned about the borders and the Balkans

1084
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:36,960
or in the Middle East than they are concerned about

1085
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,360
the American borders. So I think you're absolutely right on

1086
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,679
that point, and I think that ultimately boils down to

1087
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,519
that pathology, you know, back to what I was referring

1088
00:58:45,559 --> 00:58:49,199
to earlier about the American ruly ethos, that they've got

1089
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:52,760
this very ideological way of looking at the world, where

1090
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,199
America is kind of like what the Soviet Union was

1091
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,880
for the Bolsheviks, platform for global domination. It's a base

1092
00:59:00,559 --> 00:59:04,400
from which to spread their blind you know, anti human,

1093
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:09,639
anti Christian ideology over the entire world, and the American

1094
00:59:09,679 --> 00:59:13,079
people are just sort of the the drones who are

1095
00:59:13,079 --> 00:59:13,559
supposed to.

1096
00:59:13,559 --> 00:59:14,079
Speaker 8: Pay for it.

1097
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 13: That's great, that's all they see us as we're we're

1098
00:59:17,519 --> 00:59:18,519
just cogs in a machine.

1099
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 7: Well, and I think as well, that sort of crusade

1100
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,679
anti fascism. The Career of Concept by Godfreed goes into

1101
00:59:27,719 --> 00:59:32,159
this ye where he describes the genesis of the American Empire.

1102
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:34,039
It's really.

1103
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 8: It's funny.

1104
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 7: I think I stole this from Shames Lindsay of all

1105
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,679
people who really doesn't like me, which I consider sort

1106
00:59:40,679 --> 00:59:43,280
of a badge of honor. But he spoke about how

1107
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,400
the you know, the French are kind enough to number

1108
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,000
their republics, and so you understand that, you know, it's

1109
00:59:49,039 --> 00:59:52,199
the same thing, but there's a major change. We've sort

1110
00:59:52,199 --> 00:59:54,519
of had the same thing in America, right there's multiple

1111
00:59:54,599 --> 00:59:57,239
different nations sort of stacked on top of each other,

1112
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,119
and you know, the current instantiation is very much the

1113
01:00:00,199 --> 01:00:04,639
house that FDR built. If nothing else, I consider myself

1114
01:00:04,719 --> 01:00:10,320
to be an arch FDR hater forever. And one of

1115
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:12,079
the things that you know, you see in that, and

1116
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,519
Godfree points this out, is that he created this sort

1117
01:00:15,519 --> 01:00:20,800
of ideological crusade against fascism that was the big people

1118
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,639
and so you see this in American media, you know,

1119
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,280
from the Cold War covering Russia. It's like, well, have

1120
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:30,840
Ivan Drago and it's like, well, let's be honest. The

1121
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:35,280
six foot six, you know, blonde, you know, blue eyed

1122
01:00:36,039 --> 01:00:39,920
super soldier. Is that a particularly you know, is that

1123
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,119
a particularly Russian figure or is it you know, the

1124
01:00:42,199 --> 01:00:45,199
peaked hat and it's basically, you know, the fascists all

1125
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:47,400
over again, but we put a Russian flag behind them.

1126
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:49,239
And I think that's part of where you see the

1127
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,480
kind of you know, goofy painting of everyone as Hitler,

1128
01:00:52,639 --> 01:00:55,360
you know, he's sort of the Satan and are horrible,

1129
01:00:55,559 --> 01:01:01,239
godless civic religion. Yeah, but additionally, that idea of this

1130
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:05,440
eternal crusade, like wherever this evil is, we need to

1131
01:01:05,519 --> 01:01:08,079
go fight it, no matter how far, or you know,

1132
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:11,679
unrelated to you know, America as a nation state. Yeah,

1133
01:01:11,719 --> 01:01:14,119
I mean, it's so clearly pointless, and I'm glad, well

1134
01:01:14,199 --> 01:01:16,519
that pointless for us, I guess. But I'm glad you

1135
01:01:16,599 --> 01:01:19,199
brought up that that term ideology because I think that

1136
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,960
that's sort of one of the interesting things that I

1137
01:01:22,079 --> 01:01:27,679
noticed when people talk about Russia is that I fundamentally

1138
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,639
view Putin as a post ideological figure. To me, there's

1139
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:33,559
there's no and it sounds dumb to say it, but

1140
01:01:33,559 --> 01:01:35,400
there's no Pootlerism.

1141
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:36,119
Speaker 8: You know.

1142
01:01:36,239 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 7: They're like, you couldn't you can't even come up with

1143
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:41,199
a term for it. And I think that you know, really,

1144
01:01:41,719 --> 01:01:45,199
the twentieth century was the century of ideology, and it

1145
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,840
was the most bloody century in human history. And so

1146
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:53,199
to me, it just seems that this is an entirely

1147
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:58,320
destructive urge to have this sort of totalizing system that

1148
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:02,239
will save the world, so to speak. Hopefully we shed

1149
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:07,119
it before it completely ruins the country. But I'm not

1150
01:02:07,239 --> 01:02:08,519
exactly optimistic about that.

1151
01:02:09,039 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 13: No, I think I think you put your finger on it.

1152
01:02:10,800 --> 01:02:12,679
And this is something I have written about quite a book,

1153
01:02:13,039 --> 01:02:16,880
and it's in my book, is that you know a

1154
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,199
lot of Americans, especially conservatives, so you ask them what

1155
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:22,599
America is, they give you all this proposition nation crap

1156
01:02:22,719 --> 01:02:25,920
and a ex experiment or whatever it is, and and

1157
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:30,360
they've lost the notion that we're a country and not

1158
01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:32,960
just a civic state but an ethnic state. I mean,

1159
01:02:33,199 --> 01:02:37,280
why are we speaking English? This country was founded by Englishmen? Okay,

1160
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,679
my askedstors were not English, unless you know some member

1161
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,320
of the Varangian Guard got a little frisky a thousand

1162
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:44,320
years ago in the palt I.

1163
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,159
Speaker 7: Mean, who knows Tennyson? I think it was it Tennyson

1164
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:48,719
or was it another one of the poets that fought

1165
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:50,039
in one of your wars in Greece?

1166
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:54,079
Speaker 8: Yeah? Oh yeah, well no Byron, Lord Byron Byron, yeah yeah.

1167
01:02:54,119 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 7: And if anyone was leaving a genetic legacy in Greece,

1168
01:02:57,039 --> 01:02:57,960
it would have been Byron.

1169
01:02:58,239 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1170
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 13: Well, remember we had English refugees from Hastings down there

1171
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:04,800
a thousand years ago serving the Imperial Guards.

1172
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:05,639
Speaker 8: So one never knows.

1173
01:03:05,719 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 13: Du one. I've been taken a DNA test. But you know, again,

1174
01:03:09,199 --> 01:03:11,000
one of the things I've tried to focus on, especially

1175
01:03:11,039 --> 01:03:14,000
if somebody not of English Saxon origin, is the ethnic

1176
01:03:14,159 --> 01:03:17,360
factor in American identity. Is that because if you ask

1177
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,360
America's oh well, my constitution, my democrat, No, that's not

1178
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,559
what makes America America. Those are epi phenomena of an

1179
01:03:23,599 --> 01:03:26,559
ethnic state. Those are English folk ways, if you will.

1180
01:03:27,039 --> 01:03:28,800
And you know, one of the things I'd like to

1181
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:33,440
point out is three things, three phenomena, three ethnic phenomena

1182
01:03:33,519 --> 01:03:37,119
and three constitutional phenomena. One is the English Civil War

1183
01:03:37,159 --> 01:03:39,719
has been fought three times, once in England in the

1184
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,639
sixteen forties, once at the time of the American Revolution,

1185
01:03:43,719 --> 01:03:46,159
which was really our first civil war. Here everybody keeps

1186
01:03:46,239 --> 01:03:48,559
referring to our second civil war. Actually no, this would

1187
01:03:48,559 --> 01:03:51,559
be our third, because our first one was in the

1188
01:03:51,719 --> 01:03:55,960
seventeen seventies and eighties, and of course then the other

1189
01:03:56,559 --> 01:04:00,239
of the late unpleasantness in the eighteen sixties, we had

1190
01:04:01,039 --> 01:04:04,840
we've had three constitutions in this country under the guise

1191
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,639
of one document on not counting the Articles of Confederation.

1192
01:04:09,039 --> 01:04:13,280
From you know, seventeen eighty nine to eighteen sixty five

1193
01:04:13,519 --> 01:04:17,239
we had what was supposed to be a confederal republic,

1194
01:04:18,559 --> 01:04:20,920
and then roughly for one hundred years after that, we

1195
01:04:21,079 --> 01:04:23,800
had what you might call a federal democracy. And then

1196
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:26,280
I would I might even go beyond FDR. I would

1197
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,519
say that in the post World War II period, that

1198
01:04:29,679 --> 01:04:36,639
federal democracy degenerated into a consolidated unitarian state run by

1199
01:04:36,719 --> 01:04:40,400
corporate interests and ethnic interests and international.

1200
01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 8: Aspirations.

1201
01:04:43,199 --> 01:04:45,920
Speaker 13: It is not even a federal democracy anymore. And you know,

1202
01:04:46,079 --> 01:04:49,199
it as much of a fiction as democracy was under

1203
01:04:49,239 --> 01:04:53,360
the Soviet Constitution. Let's not kid ourselves, except instead of

1204
01:04:53,559 --> 01:04:57,159
having one party that rules everything. We have quote two

1205
01:04:57,239 --> 01:05:01,440
parties that are conclusion with one another, keep everybody else out.

1206
01:05:02,119 --> 01:05:04,800
And that's where we are right now. And and and

1207
01:05:05,119 --> 01:05:07,000
the thing is is and it gets back to what

1208
01:05:07,079 --> 01:05:09,119
you say, if America is to survive, I don't mean

1209
01:05:09,159 --> 01:05:13,360
the American Republic that's gone. The American Republic, the American

1210
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,239
constitutional pub is gone. The question is will the American

1211
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,039
ethnos survive? Will the American people?

1212
01:05:19,199 --> 01:05:22,480
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1213
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1214
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1220
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1221
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1222
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1223
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1225
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1226
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1227
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1228
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1229
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1230
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1231
01:06:19,079 --> 01:06:23,840
confidential conversation. You can trust white Christian English speaking people

1232
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:26,559
as the core ethnos that makes the United States and

1233
01:06:26,559 --> 01:06:28,960
the United States still survive. I mean, you know, the

1234
01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:31,480
Russians like to talk about, oh, Russia, we have we

1235
01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:34,440
have one hundred diition, different nationalities, blah blah blah blah,

1236
01:06:34,559 --> 01:06:37,320
which is true. But what makes in Russia is the

1237
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,559
fact that there's an Orthodox Russian speaking core, which is

1238
01:06:40,679 --> 01:06:42,840
the nucleus of the state. In the same way that

1239
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,719
you know, French speaking people are the nucleus of France,

1240
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:50,679
not Breton's, not Basques, not Corsicans, not Alsatian French speaking people.

1241
01:06:51,199 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 13: So you know, we've lost sight of that. If you

1242
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:56,320
ask your typical American who you are, as I said,

1243
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:59,360
he'll talk about constitution, democracy. He won't say, well, because

1244
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:02,639
I'm ethnic an American. I'm an American. I'm nothing else

1245
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:03,679
but an American.

1246
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:04,159
Speaker 8: You know.

1247
01:07:04,239 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 13: Now some of them might say, well, because I'm white,

1248
01:07:06,119 --> 01:07:09,239
they'll look at it just crude racial terms. But you know,

1249
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:12,920
white race is not an ethnos. I mean, it takes

1250
01:07:13,559 --> 01:07:17,079
a language, religion, values, I mean, all those things are

1251
01:07:17,199 --> 01:07:20,719
a common descent, obviously, but all those other factors are

1252
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,719
what make a nation a nation. Americans have almost completely

1253
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:26,280
lost sight of that, and that's why I don't think

1254
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:28,960
the future bodes well for us. I mean, I'm actually,

1255
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:32,159
in some ways more optimistic about Europe than I am

1256
01:07:32,239 --> 01:07:35,320
about America, because at least in Italy, there are Italians

1257
01:07:35,360 --> 01:07:37,599
who know they're Italian, They're Germans who know they're Germans,

1258
01:07:37,679 --> 01:07:40,679
French who know they're French. Most Americans have no idea

1259
01:07:40,719 --> 01:07:41,559
who the hell we are.

1260
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:47,119
Speaker 7: Well, And that exact point is really why I spend

1261
01:07:47,239 --> 01:07:53,599
so much time attacking who the people who Charles Haywood

1262
01:07:53,599 --> 01:07:56,119
has termed the Catamite right, which is a rude term,

1263
01:07:56,199 --> 01:07:59,360
but want I'll continue to use is exactly that. It's like,

1264
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:04,320
is America an idea that can be exported in any context?

1265
01:08:04,599 --> 01:08:07,199
Are you know the Liberians who have our constitution? The

1266
01:08:07,320 --> 01:08:10,800
exact same as we are, or is it a home

1267
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:14,239
for a people? Is America a place for a group

1268
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:17,399
called Americans? And I'm glad you brought up the distinction

1269
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:20,279
between Ethnos and race, because there is a difference. And

1270
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:23,239
look in certain situations, you know, when you're applying to

1271
01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:25,520
college and they say, you know, whitey need not apply,

1272
01:08:26,119 --> 01:08:28,600
well that becomes a very relevant factor. And I think that,

1273
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:34,359
you know, regardless of your moral opinions on it, I'm

1274
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:37,640
not necessarily super hot on it. White identity politics are

1275
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:41,800
coming to America one way or another, given current realities.

1276
01:08:42,199 --> 01:08:44,239
But even in Ethnos and I talk to a lot

1277
01:08:44,279 --> 01:08:46,520
of Brits. I like them quite a bit, and genetically

1278
01:08:46,680 --> 01:08:49,720
I am British. You know, my family's been here. You know,

1279
01:08:51,279 --> 01:08:54,439
it's somewhat inauspicious circumstances, but you know, since the you know,

1280
01:08:54,520 --> 01:08:58,880
the early seventeenth century and so, but even then, right,

1281
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,720
there's a difference between A and I. You know, I've

1282
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:02,960
talked to a number of them and it's like, well

1283
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:05,239
we look similar, but we're different. Yeah, you know, and

1284
01:09:05,319 --> 01:09:08,079
we're probably closer to cousins than anything else where. You know,

1285
01:09:08,159 --> 01:09:11,199
there is an overlap there, but fundamentally there is a difference.

1286
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:13,960
And the idea that you see parrotid from conservatives that

1287
01:09:14,119 --> 01:09:18,119
you know, the constitution is what matters. Demeastra blew this

1288
01:09:18,239 --> 01:09:20,079
out of the water, you know, hundreds of years ago

1289
01:09:20,399 --> 01:09:23,039
where he said, look like a constitution is a reflection

1290
01:09:23,199 --> 01:09:25,880
of a people at a given time. It has no

1291
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:30,439
magical inherent powers. And so to me, really I view

1292
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:35,800
my primary political enemies, at least in this context as

1293
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,560
the sort of you know, intellectual children of you know,

1294
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:41,239
the neo conservatives, the people who you know view there

1295
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:48,760
the purpose of America is to export all the buzzwords freedom, democracy, Americanism. Right,

1296
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,600
we can call it that over the entire world, while

1297
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:55,439
letting the people who belong here, who have no other

1298
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:59,279
place to go rot And so to me, that really

1299
01:09:59,399 --> 01:10:02,199
is the in my mind, that is the fight worth fighting.

1300
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:05,000
But Jim, this has been a great interview. I really

1301
01:10:05,119 --> 01:10:08,600
enjoyed it. I appreciate your time. Do you want to conclude?

1302
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:10,199
And then we can tell people where to find you.

1303
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 8: Sure.

1304
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:16,239
Speaker 13: All I can say, Jay, is I find some small

1305
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:20,520
degree of encouragement and hearing you talk like this, because

1306
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:24,600
if you are aware of these things, hopefully there are

1307
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:25,640
other young people who.

1308
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:27,159
Speaker 8: Are aware of them. Look, I'm an old guy.

1309
01:10:27,319 --> 01:10:30,399
Speaker 13: You know my shelf life is going to expire in

1310
01:10:30,399 --> 01:10:34,640
the not too distant future, I suppose. And let's face it,

1311
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:37,760
in some ways, the boomers are the worst when it

1312
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:43,239
comes to having messed all this up, although frankly generations

1313
01:10:43,399 --> 01:10:46,039
they can't come after us or not anything to write

1314
01:10:46,039 --> 01:10:49,319
home about either. So because after all, we raised you guys.

1315
01:10:49,359 --> 01:10:51,239
So if you guys are screwed up, well.

1316
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:52,199
Speaker 8: Too bad for you.

1317
01:10:53,359 --> 01:10:57,680
Speaker 13: But I'm hopeful, and I'm somewhat hopeful that as this

1318
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:01,079
all comes unraveled one way or the other, that more

1319
01:11:01,159 --> 01:11:04,199
people will get their heads screwed on straight, hopefully young

1320
01:11:04,279 --> 01:11:07,319
men first, and at some point maybe the chicks will

1321
01:11:07,359 --> 01:11:08,720
follow after, as.

1322
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 8: Hopefully they tend to do. But one never knows.

1323
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 13: I mean. One of the upsetting things in this country

1324
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:17,279
again gets back to demographics. It's just how low the

1325
01:11:17,359 --> 01:11:21,520
marriage rates are in all Western countries including the United States,

1326
01:11:21,560 --> 01:11:26,079
and the child bearing rates. We have this divergence in

1327
01:11:26,239 --> 01:11:28,640
politics where a lot of young men are moving to

1328
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:30,760
the right, a lot of young women are moving to

1329
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:32,720
the left. I mean, one of the worst things you

1330
01:11:32,800 --> 01:11:34,840
see in voting patterns is that.

1331
01:11:35,239 --> 01:11:36,279
Speaker 8: The higher the.

1332
01:11:38,319 --> 01:11:42,720
Speaker 13: Lower the marriage rate, the more women vote left, which

1333
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:48,640
becomes then a kind of a irre irrevocable rolling tendency

1334
01:11:49,079 --> 01:11:52,159
in the way the direction society is going long and

1335
01:11:52,199 --> 01:11:54,279
the short of it is, we vote our way out

1336
01:11:54,319 --> 01:11:57,279
of this. And at this point, the future of America

1337
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:00,640
in the future of the world are intimately bound up.

1338
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,000
Just as the internal stability of the Soviet Union was

1339
01:12:04,399 --> 01:12:09,640
inextricably tied to the global communist movement, the future of

1340
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:13,960
America as a country and Americans as anthnos is inextricably

1341
01:12:14,039 --> 01:12:16,159
tied to the future of the American Empire.

1342
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:17,520
Speaker 8: Back to what you said.

1343
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:21,119
Speaker 13: For America to survive, Americans to survive, the empire must die.

1344
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:24,479
And the question is can it die peacefully the way

1345
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:27,960
the Soviet Empire died? You know, can two miracles happen

1346
01:12:28,279 --> 01:12:31,399
during the same lifetime where some big, huge going concern

1347
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:34,640
of an ideological nature happens to die in a relatively

1348
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:38,119
peaceful way without a big bang, or does it happen

1349
01:12:38,199 --> 01:12:40,039
with a big bang? I mean, people talk, you know,

1350
01:12:40,079 --> 01:12:43,680
I think people have a sense of foreboding. A lot

1351
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:45,800
of people have a sense of foreboting that something really

1352
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:48,840
bad is in our future, whether it's another you know,

1353
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:54,000
plandemic or whether it's some big financial collapse and you know,

1354
01:12:54,039 --> 01:12:56,159
we get plunged into like you know, not only a

1355
01:12:56,279 --> 01:12:59,159
great depression of two thousand and eight on steroids, or

1356
01:12:59,279 --> 01:13:02,039
maybe a global war. And that's always one of the

1357
01:13:02,079 --> 01:13:04,760
options for the kind of people we're talking about who

1358
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:08,239
run things. But I can't escape the notion that some

1359
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:13,640
huge dislocation of our lives is going to come about

1360
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,119
in the not too distant future. I mean, I'm not

1361
01:13:16,159 --> 01:13:19,920
talking about twenty or forty years. I'm talking about five

1362
01:13:20,039 --> 01:13:23,399
years of the most I'm guessing, and at that point

1363
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:25,640
all bets are off. We'll have to see what comes

1364
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:25,960
out of that.

1365
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:35,159
Speaker 7: So several things there. One there, You're very right about

1366
01:13:35,159 --> 01:13:38,800
the political divergence between men and women among my generation

1367
01:13:39,119 --> 01:13:44,479
gen Z. Effectively, the war between the sexes has devolved

1368
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:46,520
to such a point where men and women have become

1369
01:13:47,079 --> 01:13:51,079
distinct political classes, like in the same way that you

1370
01:13:51,119 --> 01:13:53,439
can imagine, you know, like the workers in the bourgeoisie.

1371
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:56,479
We've just split the human species down the middle, which is,

1372
01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:00,600
you know, just a lovely state of affairs. But one

1373
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:02,359
of the things that I've noticed, and this has been true,

1374
01:14:02,359 --> 01:14:05,680
I even see this speaking to you know, millennials one

1375
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,319
generation older than I am, that there's been sort of

1376
01:14:08,359 --> 01:14:13,199
a speciation where effectively, either you are getting married young

1377
01:14:13,319 --> 01:14:15,479
and having a lot of children, or you will never

1378
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:18,199
have children, or maybe you know, you wait till you're forty,

1379
01:14:18,720 --> 01:14:21,520
you have a child who's a little bit scrambled, and

1380
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:23,960
then you end up transing them. To be blunt about it,

1381
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:28,800
that trend has continued a pace. Additionally, one of the

1382
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,760
other things that has been kind of a and this

1383
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:36,079
has been a more recent story, has been the disenchantment

1384
01:14:36,399 --> 01:14:40,680
of younger right wing voters with the Republican Party in particular,

1385
01:14:41,039 --> 01:14:43,760
which is really interesting. So you have you know, Donald

1386
01:14:43,800 --> 01:14:47,159
Trump saying affordability is a democrat oaks, which is not

1387
01:14:47,319 --> 01:14:50,840
the best branding, to put it mildly, But what you have,

1388
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:53,079
and I count myself among this is a large group

1389
01:14:53,159 --> 01:14:58,000
of men who were doing everything correctly right, who got

1390
01:14:58,079 --> 01:15:00,359
you know, good grades in schools, wanted to do what

1391
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:02,800
you were supposed to do, and at multiple points have

1392
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,560
been pulled largely for their their race and their sex.

1393
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:09,359
You need not apply. And so you know, I, especially

1394
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:11,520
people younger than me, I see this where it is

1395
01:15:12,119 --> 01:15:15,560
you know, the straight a student captain of the football team,

1396
01:15:16,159 --> 01:15:19,920
you know, student body president, all Star, and he's going

1397
01:15:20,039 --> 01:15:22,319
to a third tier skate school because it's the only

1398
01:15:22,399 --> 01:15:24,760
thing he could get into. Now, obviously, look, college placement

1399
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:26,399
is at the end of your life. But that is

1400
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:29,479
a leading indicator of problems we see elsewhere. And so

1401
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:33,760
what you've created is a group of young men we

1402
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:36,840
effectively have very little to lose. There is not a

1403
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,439
way for them even if they wanted to to index

1404
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:41,600
with the system. So for instance, like I have a

1405
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:43,680
job on the internet, this is what I do. Do

1406
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:45,760
I do it because it's fun, Yes, do I also

1407
01:15:45,840 --> 01:15:48,039
do it because there weren't a lot of other prospects

1408
01:15:48,119 --> 01:15:50,520
one hundred percent. And there is an alternate world where

1409
01:15:50,520 --> 01:15:53,159
if I were twenty years older, I would have got

1410
01:15:53,199 --> 01:15:56,319
a corporate job and never said anything at all controversial.

1411
01:15:56,960 --> 01:16:01,000
And so to me, that destabilization where the things that

1412
01:16:01,079 --> 01:16:04,239
traditionally tie men into a culture and the ability to

1413
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:07,039
pair off with a woman, to own property, to have

1414
01:16:07,119 --> 01:16:10,319
a stake in society is being taken away. At the

1415
01:16:10,359 --> 01:16:12,279
same time, you know, whether you want to call them

1416
01:16:12,319 --> 01:16:15,159
neocons or you know, other pejoratives are.

1417
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:19,960
Speaker 6: Ireland's largest award winning light show Experiences Back wonder Lights

1418
01:16:20,039 --> 01:16:23,560
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1419
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:26,680
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1420
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:30,399
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1421
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:34,720
as the night comes alive with dazzling displays and unforgettable moments.

1422
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:36,600
Speaker 8: Who will you wonder Lights with?

1423
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:39,760
Speaker 6: For dates and bookings, visit Wonderlights Dot.

1424
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:40,039
Speaker 7: I e.

1425
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:45,079
Speaker 20: You didn't deserve what happened, and it doesn't have to

1426
01:16:45,159 --> 01:16:51,800
define you. You don't have to carry it alone. I

1427
01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:53,920
know a safe place where you can tell your story

1428
01:16:56,199 --> 01:17:01,039
and you'll be believed, called the Dublin rape CenTra National

1429
01:17:01,119 --> 01:17:05,319
Help Line on one eight hundred seven seven eight eight

1430
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:09,600
eight eight. Whenever you're ready to talk, they'll be ready

1431
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:10,039
to listen.

1432
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,920
Speaker 7: Losing their sort of losing their magic right, they no

1433
01:17:15,039 --> 01:17:18,239
longer have the institutional control they used to. Let's also

1434
01:17:18,319 --> 01:17:20,199
be honest. I mean, look at just the difference between

1435
01:17:20,239 --> 01:17:23,439
Bill and Irban Crystal. The second gen was nowhere near

1436
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:26,760
as impressed and as the first, and so to me,

1437
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:30,720
I completely agree. I think that the short term prospects

1438
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:35,199
are very dim, But in my mind, the fact that

1439
01:17:35,319 --> 01:17:38,399
you have that that sort of civic religion of the

1440
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:43,920
American Empire as regards Israel, as regards foreign wards is

1441
01:17:44,079 --> 01:17:49,000
very clearly falling apart. I mean, look like, obviously I'm

1442
01:17:49,159 --> 01:17:52,399
you know, no fan of you know, fuent Has in particular,

1443
01:17:52,800 --> 01:17:54,680
but the fact that a figure as radical as that

1444
01:17:55,079 --> 01:18:01,279
has become fairly successfully mainstreamed. If you're an neo Kon,

1445
01:18:01,399 --> 01:18:03,279
we'll put that in scare quotes. Things are not looking

1446
01:18:03,319 --> 01:18:05,840
good for you, and so to me, I do find

1447
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:09,920
that to be sort of a slight note of encouragement.

1448
01:18:10,119 --> 01:18:14,000
I mean, look like, I'm not exactly an optimist by personality,

1449
01:18:14,079 --> 01:18:16,680
but I think that they're interesting things happening, And look like,

1450
01:18:17,199 --> 01:18:20,039
I'm sorry, I'll finally wrap this up. But part of

1451
01:18:20,039 --> 01:18:22,600
the big reason that I started using my face, this

1452
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:26,119
was fully anonymous for a long time, is that I

1453
01:18:26,239 --> 01:18:28,600
saw a real chance at a resistance. I saw a

1454
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:31,239
real chance at a dissident movement. It was going somewhere

1455
01:18:31,359 --> 01:18:35,520
that was serious. And the people that I have reaching

1456
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:38,880
out to me behind you know, behind the scenes, or

1457
01:18:39,039 --> 01:18:43,199
I've met at different conferences and events, are serious, capable people.

1458
01:18:43,640 --> 01:18:43,840
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1459
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:46,199
Speaker 7: It's like, oh, you could be doing something else and

1460
01:18:46,279 --> 01:18:49,520
you're doing something dangerous to your social standing or your

1461
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:53,600
job prospects to be here and look like they are

1462
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:59,000
always early adopters of, you know, any idea, and the

1463
01:18:59,319 --> 01:19:03,319
first profit of whatever the rejection of the American Empire is.

1464
01:19:03,359 --> 01:19:04,560
We're sort of burnt at the stake.

1465
01:19:05,119 --> 01:19:05,279
Speaker 13: You know.

1466
01:19:05,359 --> 01:19:07,039
Speaker 7: They were the first out the gate, and many of

1467
01:19:07,079 --> 01:19:10,840
them got punished for it. Yeah, but as with any

1468
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:14,680
other idea, it ramps up quickly, you know, it becomes

1469
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:18,000
popularized to a point where you can't simply throw everyone

1470
01:19:18,079 --> 01:19:21,000
in jail or get everyone fired for their job if

1471
01:19:21,039 --> 01:19:23,520
it is a position shared by a large percentage of

1472
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:26,520
the public. Anyway, Jim, I'm keeping you too long. It

1473
01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:28,720
was fascinating to no.

1474
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:31,199
Speaker 13: No, could I just briefly comment on what you said though,

1475
01:19:31,279 --> 01:19:34,079
because of course you're right. I mean, obviously we do

1476
01:19:34,199 --> 01:19:36,119
have the split in what used to be the Mega

1477
01:19:36,199 --> 01:19:39,239
movement between let's say, you know, Tucker Carlson, Canda z

1478
01:19:39,239 --> 01:19:41,479
Owens and Nick Wentis on one side in the in

1479
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:42,840
the Mega movement.

1480
01:19:45,199 --> 01:19:49,439
Speaker 8: Mark Levin or another Loomer and Ben Shapiro.

1481
01:19:51,880 --> 01:19:53,760
Speaker 13: You know, I I some people think, you know, with

1482
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:55,720
Trump and now this is going to continue a JD

1483
01:19:55,800 --> 01:19:57,720
Events will serve two terms at all. I don't think

1484
01:19:57,720 --> 01:19:59,359
it's going to go that way. I think it's more

1485
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:02,359
likely this is all the wheels are coming off this already,

1486
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:03,920
and the Left is going.

1487
01:20:03,880 --> 01:20:04,960
Speaker 8: To come back. And you're right.

1488
01:20:05,079 --> 01:20:09,399
Speaker 13: You got more and more young men whose prospects in

1489
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:11,720
the normal sense, getting married, having a family, having a

1490
01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:14,880
real job are not all that great, and they're starting

1491
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:18,479
to wake up to their situation, which is very, very

1492
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:21,920
socially dangerous, especially since there are no political or economic

1493
01:20:22,039 --> 01:20:26,319
outlets for that increased energy and awareness. You're looking at

1494
01:20:26,359 --> 01:20:28,600
some kind of an explosion in the future.

1495
01:20:29,239 --> 01:20:31,640
Speaker 8: They have to be aware of that. Our rulers have

1496
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:33,960
to be aware of that. So what do they do

1497
01:20:34,079 --> 01:20:37,000
with it? One way is how do you dispose of

1498
01:20:37,079 --> 01:20:38,840
lots and lots of dangerous young men?

1499
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:44,159
Speaker 7: You get the Russians of the Chinese to do it

1500
01:20:44,239 --> 01:20:44,439
for you.

1501
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:46,079
Speaker 8: Yeah, you get a war. Yeah.

1502
01:20:46,279 --> 01:20:48,760
Speaker 13: And I think unfortunately that's the direction things are going.

1503
01:20:49,039 --> 01:20:52,199
And by the way, to get too conspiratorial. Like again,

1504
01:20:52,239 --> 01:20:53,840
I don't know what you think about this. I do

1505
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:56,520
think the twenty twenty election was stolen, and the question

1506
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:59,399
is why wasn't the twenty twenty four election is stolen oh, well,

1507
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:02,159
because he was just so popular they couldn't know.

1508
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:03,560
Speaker 8: He was allowed to win.

1509
01:21:04,439 --> 01:21:07,000
Speaker 13: And he was allowed to win because if we're gonna

1510
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:09,079
have a war, we're not gonna have a war with

1511
01:21:09,199 --> 01:21:12,399
a bunch of Tranese foreigners and feminists to go fight

1512
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:15,920
the war. We needed a bunch of dumb white Christian

1513
01:21:16,119 --> 01:21:18,319
men from the South and Midwest to sign up because

1514
01:21:18,439 --> 01:21:23,359
they're fun for America against the Kamis. You know where

1515
01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:27,600
we can mobilize people of your generation for patriotism, especially

1516
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:31,560
with the right kind of false flag. And I look again,

1517
01:21:31,720 --> 01:21:33,760
I think that's I'm not saying it's coming, but that's

1518
01:21:33,760 --> 01:21:34,880
a distinct possibility.

1519
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:35,199
Speaker 8: I think.

1520
01:21:36,199 --> 01:21:40,439
Speaker 7: Well, I mean, look, I've certainly had the same thought. Thankfully,

1521
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:46,479
the sort of stupidly named Operation Midnight Hammer seems to

1522
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:49,840
have resulted in, you know, no no further action there.

1523
01:21:50,399 --> 01:21:53,039
But the first thing I the first thing on my

1524
01:21:53,159 --> 01:21:55,920
mind when you know, I saw the same social media

1525
01:21:55,960 --> 01:21:58,399
posts everyone else did, you know tracking the jets, was

1526
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:02,239
I hope, hope there isn't a bomb in New York City.

1527
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:04,920
R I hope there isn't you know, a nuke in Dallas.

1528
01:22:05,359 --> 01:22:08,520
Mm hm, look like I'm I don't know, if I

1529
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:12,159
have the maximal nine to eleven conspiracy theory, you know,

1530
01:22:12,239 --> 01:22:15,880
with holograms and all that. But at the same time,

1531
01:22:16,319 --> 01:22:18,520
you know, you look at you know, the Gulf of Tonkin,

1532
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:20,399
what may or may not have happened with the main

1533
01:22:20,640 --> 01:22:23,880
what seems to have likely happened with Pearl Harbor. These

1534
01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:26,279
are not good people, and they're more than more than

1535
01:22:26,359 --> 01:22:29,199
willing to, uh, you know, practice a little bit of

1536
01:22:29,239 --> 01:22:32,920
dishonesty to get what they want. Yeh One more thing

1537
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:34,640
and I just wanted to mention this and we'll finally

1538
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:36,439
wrap this up now that we are well and truly

1539
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:40,640
over time. Is to your point about, you know, increasing

1540
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:43,119
radicalization on the right, it's important to remember that the

1541
01:22:43,239 --> 01:22:45,960
exact same thing is happening on the political left. Yeah,

1542
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:49,159
look at the you know, look at the you know,

1543
01:22:49,279 --> 01:22:52,039
Charlie Kirk murderer, look at the you know, the kid

1544
01:22:52,119 --> 01:22:55,159
who you know took a shot at Trump who to

1545
01:22:55,199 --> 01:22:57,920
give Tucker credit, he did some very very good reporting

1546
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:00,279
on that, you know, digging into what this character actually was.

1547
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:06,640
There is a hole, I mean basically like like there's

1548
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:12,079
sleeper cells buried across the entire nation of mentally unwell

1549
01:23:14,600 --> 01:23:19,520
effectively lunatics, sexual degenerates who have been told for the

1550
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:22,760
past ten years, you know that you need to, you know,

1551
01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:25,880
become part of that great anti fascist crusade and you know,

1552
01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:29,840
pick up a rifle. And so it's funny. I read

1553
01:23:29,840 --> 01:23:32,560
a piece from Wired on my show not too long ago,

1554
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:35,680
talking about in glowing terms of course, the you know,

1555
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:39,239
the armed transgender movement, and in it, they're sort of

1556
01:23:39,239 --> 01:23:41,359
showing their hand talking about like, yeah, we really expect

1557
01:23:41,399 --> 01:23:44,279
there to be years of lead. It's like, oh, okay, well,

1558
01:23:44,279 --> 01:23:46,000
I guess you can just say that as long as

1559
01:23:46,039 --> 01:23:48,319
they're draped in a rainbow flag and it's it's completely

1560
01:23:48,359 --> 01:23:51,159
all right. But yeah, I mean I think that. And

1561
01:23:52,359 --> 01:23:54,279
you can even see this in the reaction to Ice

1562
01:23:54,479 --> 01:23:56,920
right where you have, you know, twelve twelve guys in

1563
01:23:56,960 --> 01:23:59,760
an L shaped ambush outside an ICE facility, Like, okay,

1564
01:24:00,119 --> 01:24:02,760
well that required a certain degree of preparation and support.

1565
01:24:03,239 --> 01:24:06,680
And so to me, the prospect of increased political violence

1566
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:09,159
is almost it's almost a sharety, you know.

1567
01:24:09,239 --> 01:24:10,960
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, but Jim, Yeah, if we do have a

1568
01:24:11,039 --> 01:24:13,720
third civil war, it's not going to be boys and

1569
01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:16,119
blue and gray and neat lions shooting at each other.

1570
01:24:16,199 --> 01:24:18,800
It's going to be more like Bosnia or Rwanda or

1571
01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:19,399
something like that.

1572
01:24:21,239 --> 01:24:25,479
Speaker 7: And again for what well, Jim, we're well and truly

1573
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:27,319
over time, this was a ton of fun. I'll have

1574
01:24:27,399 --> 01:24:29,479
to have you back on. You mentioned your book, but

1575
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:30,479
where can people buy it?

1576
01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:32,279
Speaker 13: If they want to do something, they can get it

1577
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:35,720
at on Imason or Barnes and Noble, any of those sites,

1578
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:38,479
or at Lulu dot com. There's where the printer is.

1579
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:42,000
And you know any of those is fine. And they've

1580
01:24:42,039 --> 01:24:43,680
got my little picture here on the back with Pat

1581
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:45,760
Buchanan and Ron Paul, so you know.

1582
01:24:47,279 --> 01:24:49,439
Speaker 7: You got your bona fides. Well again, this was a

1583
01:24:49,479 --> 01:24:52,520
ton of fun, yeh. As far as my stuff, the

1584
01:24:52,600 --> 01:24:55,359
Jay Burdon Show, Apple, Spotify YouTube. If you want to

1585
01:24:55,359 --> 01:24:57,720
support the show, because this is what I do, you

1586
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:00,560
can throw me a few bucks on Patreon, gum Road

1587
01:25:00,880 --> 01:25:04,640
or substack. You get the episodes early with no ads. Again, Jim,

1588
01:25:05,079 --> 01:25:05,920
it was great talking to you.

1589
01:25:06,199 --> 01:25:07,239
Speaker 8: Thank you. Yep.

1590
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:10,359
Speaker 7: Everyone at home, keep your head up. I can't last forever.

1591
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:10,960
Speaker 8: Good night.

1592
01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:45,119
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1601
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1605
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Speaker 6: While all the who's of Jovial were at McDonald's eating,

1606
01:26:35,119 --> 01:26:38,640
the Grinch from his lair started plotting and scheming girkin

1607
01:26:38,680 --> 01:26:41,359
flavored fries and God's Socks will send them crackers.

1608
01:26:41,560 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 14: So try the Grinch's new meal and head down to.

1609
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1610
01:26:49,479 --> 01:26:52,039
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