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Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every 57 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:30.120 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 58 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:34.439 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 59 00:02:34.439 --> 00:02:49.360 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. The nineteen 60 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:53.400 seventy eight murder of actor and American icon Bob Crane 61 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:56.840 remains one of the most high profile unsolved celebrity murders 62 00:02:56.879 --> 00:03:00.680 of all time. Thirty eight years after his brutal murder 63 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:05.039 in Scottsdale, Arizona, millions around the world still want answers 64 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:09.400 was John Carpenter the killer or did police arrest an 65 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:13.639 innocent man. For nearly forty years, police remained convinced of 66 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:18.439 Carpenter's guilt. Early DNA testing decades ago was unable to 67 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:22.520 positively link Carpenter to the crime. The two friends lived 68 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:26.240 on the edge, sharing a dark obsession videotaping women during 69 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:31.759 their sexual encounters. In an unprecedented investigation, reporter John Hook 70 00:03:32.039 --> 00:03:36.199 retests the original blood evidence using modern DNA science in 71 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:39.879 a final search for answers. Scientists believe this is the 72 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:44.039 last chance to test DNA from the crime scene. The 73 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:49.759 final close up in identifying Bob Crane's killer, Hook has 74 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:53.560 exhausted all remaining avenues to unearth answers in this intriguing 75 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:56.680 and haunting cold case. Will he close the book on 76 00:03:56.719 --> 00:04:00.280 the Crane murder once and for all? Who Killed Bob 77 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:03.879 Crane is Hook's first hand account of a two year 78 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:07.280 investigation and search for the truth. It's seen through the 79 00:04:07.319 --> 00:04:12.319 eyes of the people who are there, witnesses, detectives, prosecutors, jurors, 80 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:16.560 and family members. John Hooks takes readers on an incredible 81 00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:20.959 reporter's journey for inside look at the sensational physical evidence 82 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:24.680 in a final attempt to learn the truth in Who 83 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.879 Killed Bob Crane? The Final close Up with my special guest, 84 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:32.480 journalist and author John Hook. Welcome to the program, and 85 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:35.920 thank you very much for agreeing to this interview John Hook. 86 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:38.519 Dan, it's an honor to be with you. You do 87 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:41.279 great work. Hey, I really appreciate the opportunity. 88 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:46.120 Well, thank you very much. This comes on kind of 89 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.639 a great day for something like this. I guess on 90 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:53.360 the eve of Valentine's Day. Kind of a twisted, twisted 91 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:58.279 love story, I guess in some ways, maybe not anyway, 92 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:03.160 congratulations on a great book. Tell us what your background is, 93 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:05.720 how you came to be involved with this. I know 94 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:09.199 you venture into it a little bit later in the book. 95 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:14.519 Tell us how you came to be involved with this 96 00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:15.480 incredible case. 97 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:18.680 Dan, I grew up with Bob Crane. He was part 98 00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:23.000 of my childhood watching him on Hogan's Heroes. He was 99 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:25.120 I was a little young when it came on the air, 100 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:27.879 but I certainly appreciated it. As time went on and 101 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:31.639 I learned that this guy was a tremendous comedic genius. 102 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:35.399 As I went along through life, I end up in Arizona. 103 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:38.279 I was a California kid, grew up on Crane and 104 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:40.560 Hogan's Heroes. But then when I came out to Arizona, 105 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:43.160 I happened to come out here in the summer of 106 00:05:43.279 --> 00:05:47.079 nineteen seventy eight, two months after Bob Crane was murdered 107 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:50.319 in Scottsdale, A mirror seven miles up the road from 108 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:54.759 my dormitory. So this story and Bob Crane has been 109 00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:57.439 with me almost my whole life. I could have never 110 00:05:57.519 --> 00:05:59.399 imagined that I would end up in the middle of 111 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:03.519 it by retesting the DNA evidence from the original crime. 112 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:07.959 But once I was in journalism and started to work 113 00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:12.240 on stories and understand more about covering crime stories, this 114 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:15.480 story intrigued me. And when I interviewed his son for 115 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:20.439 a TV show back in March of twenty fifteen, Bob 116 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:22.480 Crane Junior, who wrote the forward for the book Who 117 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:25.439 Killed Bob Crane by the Way, which was a tremendous honor, 118 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:29.040 I interviewed him and felt very strongly the pain of 119 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:31.079 a son who had gone through this and lost his 120 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:34.319 father and really didn't have any answers as to who 121 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:38.959 killed his father. And it haunted me for days. I finally, 122 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:41.800 and I can't tell you, Dan how it came to me, 123 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:46.160 But a few days after the interview, it was sticking 124 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:48.560 with me, sticking with me, and I thought, what happened 125 00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:51.800 to all that evidence? Was it around? Could it be 126 00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:55.800 retested if we found it? What could modern DNA science 127 00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:58.959 tell us that they couldn't get back In nineteen ninety four, 128 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:02.560 when John Carpenter, chief suspect in the case, went on trial, 129 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:05.800 and so he was the first phone call I made. 130 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:08.879 I called him and said, if we find this, Bob, 131 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:11.920 how would you feel about his retesting it? And there 132 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:14.800 was silence on the phone, and I thought I had 133 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:18.839 offended him. And he said, oh my god, do you 134 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:22.480 think that's possible? And I said, Bob, I'm going to 135 00:07:22.519 --> 00:07:26.040 give it a shot. Are you okay with it? And 136 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:29.519 he said yes? But that long silence. Dan was uncomfortable 137 00:07:29.560 --> 00:07:32.160 because I really thought I had offended him. But once 138 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:34.360 he understood what I was doing and what I wanted 139 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:37.319 to do, which was really end this for the family, 140 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:40.680 and that's how I got involved. 141 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:48.000 Now, before you endeavored to do this, did you have 142 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:52.519 any idea about how easy or how difficult it was 143 00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:57.160 to get testing retested, evidence retested? 144 00:07:58.279 --> 00:08:02.439 I didn't. I didn't know a lot, frankly, about DNA, 145 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:07.000 other than covering the oj Simpson murder trial, covering some 146 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:09.800 cases here in Arizona that dealt with DNA. I would 147 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:13.839 say I was really a novice DNA, so I didn't 148 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:16.279 know first of all what we would need. I was 149 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:21.839 thinking primarily. As we go through the story, you learn 150 00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:26.600 that when Crane was murdered, there was blood in John 151 00:08:26.639 --> 00:08:29.680 Carpenter's rental car. We can get into the relationship between 152 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:33.039 Crane and Carpenter. But there was blood found in John 153 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:36.120 Carpenter's rental car. The two were pealing around together, making 154 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:40.120 X rated videos together, pornographic videos. He and Crane would 155 00:08:40.159 --> 00:08:43.360 travel on the road. Carpenter worked for a KI, he 156 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:46.039 worked for ken Wood, he worked for Sony. He was 157 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.879 a video whiz, and he was a very successful video 158 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:52.279 salesman by the way, John Carpenter, and this was the 159 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:55.879 glue that bound he and Crane together, the interest in 160 00:08:56.039 --> 00:09:00.759 betting women and videotaping it. And that's what John Carpenter 161 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:04.159 introduced Bob Crane too. And so when blood was found 162 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:07.720 on the door of John Carpenter's rental car here in Scottsdale, 163 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:09.840 and then they tested that blood and it turned out 164 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:12.639 to be type B blood, which happened to be Bob 165 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:16.679 Crane's blood type, you can imagine what police instantly thought. 166 00:09:17.240 --> 00:09:20.159 So the blood we tested was what was on that 167 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:24.120 door panel in John Carpenter's rental car, but first we 168 00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:24.960 had to find it. 169 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:30.759 Now, let's go back, as you do and start at 170 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:38.279 the beginning and talk about this icon. Robert Crane, Bob Crane, 171 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:41.840 Hogan's hero star as you do in the book, tell 172 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:45.000 us a little bit about the evolution of his career. 173 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:48.360 He was a big radio guy on kN X Radio 174 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:51.840 in Los Angeles. So tell us about Robert Crane's career 175 00:09:51.879 --> 00:09:56.080 and his ascension to fame and his success with Hogan's Heroes. 176 00:09:57.320 --> 00:09:59.639 Tell us about that Dan. 177 00:10:00.039 --> 00:10:03.960 I was a tremendous radio personality. It was probably his 178 00:10:04.039 --> 00:10:06.879 greatest skill, actually, And I think he was very wistful 179 00:10:07.679 --> 00:10:10.600 for radio when he got into television, because television, it 180 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:14.080 can be very contrived and controlled. I've worked in both mediums, 181 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:17.120 and I know this firsthand being an anchor on television 182 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:20.519 here in Phoenix, but I started in radio. Radio is 183 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:24.320 ultimate liberty and freedom really, and especially for a guy 184 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:28.080 like Crane, who was a morning DJ. He did voice impersonations, 185 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:30.879 he played the drums live on the air. He had 186 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:34.799 scintillating guests. When he moved to Hollywood and got the 187 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:37.159 job at CANX, he had started on the East Coast 188 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:42.200 in Connecticut, New York. He had worked small markets and 189 00:10:42.279 --> 00:10:46.159 became so good on the East Coast that CBS took 190 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:49.960 notice and said, this guy in Connecticut is siphoning our 191 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:54.000 listeners from our mothership in New York. City. We got 192 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:56.840 to get this guy out of here. So they moved 193 00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:01.480 him out to LA to CANX to be the morning guy. 194 00:11:02.440 --> 00:11:06.440 When I believe it's Jack Storer went to I think 195 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:08.559 it was a sixty four thousand dollars pyramid or one 196 00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:11.759 of these shows. He was the original morning guy. They 197 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:14.559 got Crane and tapped him to replace him, and so 198 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:18.159 Crane became a huge, huge radio star. He was dubbed 199 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:20.720 the King of the La Airwaves out in LA on 200 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.759 can X, which is just a blow towards station. So 201 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:26.919 when he's out there and he's doing this mad cap 202 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:29.919 morning show, producers in Hollywood started to take notice of 203 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:33.320 the comic genius of this guy. And Crane was also 204 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:36.240 starting to reach out in television. He was getting guest 205 00:11:36.279 --> 00:11:38.919 shots on Donna Reed, on the Old Dick Van Dyke 206 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:43.320 Show with Mary Tyler Moore who just passed away. He 207 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:48.519 was starting to make some inroads Twilight Zone. He was 208 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:52.039 getting guest shots. Then this script comes along for Hogan's 209 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:56.120 Heroes and he reads it and he doesn't quite understand 210 00:11:56.120 --> 00:11:58.840 what they're trying to do, but he recognized the comedy 211 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:01.200 of it, and it was a brilliant script, and he 212 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:01.679 loved it. 213 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:09.759 Now at the same time he's landed these acting roles. 214 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:12.879 You go back to nineteen forty nine, He's married his 215 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:18.279 high school sweetheart and Tersian and they had three children together. 216 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:21.879 So tell us what he is like in terms of 217 00:12:21.919 --> 00:12:27.200 a family man and how he balances his movie career, 218 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:30.879 radio career, this entertainment career with his family. How well 219 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:34.000 does he do that? And there was difficult about his 220 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:34.720 family life. 221 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:39.759 It was difficult. As Bob Crane's notoriety increased, his access 222 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.639 to women increased. Of course, he married, as you said, 223 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:46.759 his high school sweetheart Ann. They had three children. He 224 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:49.159 was trying to play two roles at once. He was 225 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:52.159 trying to get his career rolling. He was a family man, 226 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:57.000 born and raised Catholic, an altar boy. Probably some repressed 227 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:00.679 sexual things going on there with that upbringing, very middle 228 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:05.080 class Connecticut. But when he gets out to Hollywood and 229 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:09.399 he starts seeing California, and I mean all of California 230 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:11.759 and not just the topography, if you know what I mean, 231 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:17.639 his interest in women and pornography grew and it eventually 232 00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:20.519 consumed him and cost him that first marriage. There's no 233 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.360 doubt about it. So as his celebrity grew, and his 234 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:28.799 access to women grew, probably by the mid fifties, certainly 235 00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:31.840 by the late fifties, he was playing around and he 236 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:35.120 was taking polaroids and snapshots to some of this. So 237 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:37.639 he was doing some of this early on, but it 238 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:41.320 wasn't until he met Carpenter on the set of Hokin Zeros, 239 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:45.879 when he met John Carpenter, that ignited the firestorm that 240 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:50.279 consumed them. Because Carpenter introduced him to videotape, which at 241 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:53.919 that time was only consumer consumers couldn't get their hands 242 00:13:53.960 --> 00:14:01.320 on it. It was only industrial type, you know, technology. 243 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:04.799 So Carpenter introduces Crane to this. And Carpenter had been 244 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:09.080 introducing people like Red Skelton and Elvis and people like 245 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:11.360 that to this technology and teaching him how to use it. 246 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.120 The Smothers Brothers, among others. He was teaching kind of 247 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:18.799 the mucky MUCKs in Hollywood how to use this new technology, 248 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.120 and for Crane it became a vehicle for pornography. 249 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:25.759 You also talk about Richard Dawson, one of the other 250 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:31.159 stars of Hogan's Heroes, and he facilitated he first met Carpenter, 251 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:35.919 and then Carpenter was introduced to Bob Crane via that 252 00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:39.440 and it be important later when we mentioned Richard Dawson 253 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:42.639 as he comes up again in this story. You talk 254 00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:47.440 about this natural, this sex obsession that Bob Crane had 255 00:14:47.879 --> 00:14:53.200 and then matched with his need to photograph and chronicle 256 00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:58.679 and document his sexual encounters. So tell us what the 257 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:03.720 relationship started with like with a Carpenter and really was 258 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:08.559 what did this relationship entail? Well, they were pals and Carpenter, 259 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:10.600 you know, has been portrayed as a hanger on and 260 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:12.840 a loser, and some of this is true that he 261 00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:14.919 was a hanger on, but he wasn't a loser. He 262 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.919 was one of the first national salespeople in the country 263 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:21.919 for Sony Electronics. Carpenter was doing pretty well on his own. 264 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:27.080 He had been raised hard scrabble in La born of 265 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:32.960 Indian descent, a Native American descent and Spanish descent, so 266 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:36.480 gave him a stark complexion and always referred to himself 267 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:40.440 as an Indian. He and Crane strike up this friendship 268 00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:45.720 after being introduced by Dawson. They corrous around strip clubs 269 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:48.240 in La because Crane loved to go into strip clubs 270 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:51.840 and play the drums. Beyond all of the work he 271 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:55.240 was doing, he still loved to be around women and 272 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:59.399 his music, and he was a frustrated jazz musician. Buddy 273 00:15:59.480 --> 00:16:02.519 Rich was a big influence. These are people he idolized, 274 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:04.639 but being in a strip club playing the drums was 275 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:08.679 probably his nirvana. But he and Carpenter would palle around 276 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:13.559 and then when they started picking up women, Carpenter showed 277 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.279 him how to videotape this stuff and they would hit 278 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:20.200 the road, and particularly once Crane was out doing the 279 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.440 dinner theater circuit. Once Hogan's Heroes was canceled in nineteen 280 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:26.600 seventy one, Crane was still doing TV spots, but he 281 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:28.279 had to pay the bills and he ended up going 282 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.879 out on the road doing dinner theater. That's what brought 283 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:35.440 him to Scottsdale, Arizona Carpenter. As in the usual way 284 00:16:35.480 --> 00:16:37.679 they would operate, Carpenter would meet him on the road. 285 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:41.440 Crane would have all of his video equipment in tow 286 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.159 and it was very bulky and junkie back then, and 287 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.200 he had it in his apartment in Scottsdale when the 288 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:53.519 murder happened. Now, as far as the family goes, you 289 00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:59.240 talked to Bob Junior, how much did the family know 290 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:02.279 about this? Obsession and what did they do as a 291 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:07.359 result of that obsession. The two daughters were too young 292 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.039 to really know. They have more of an idealized version 293 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:15.319 and vision of their father than Bob Junior has. Bob, 294 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:19.880 as he tells me in the book Who Killed Bob Crane, 295 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:24.519 that his father's sex talk to him really revolved around 296 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:27.839 showing him kind of X rated films. That was their 297 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:31.960 Birds and the Bees talk. Bob Junior was certainly aware 298 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:34.839 of his father's dark room in California and that this 299 00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:37.480 wasn't just a man cave, but it was a place 300 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:41.839 where his pornography was really taking hold. And Bob Jor 301 00:17:42.359 --> 00:17:45.480 knew where the sash was, looked at it himself and 302 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:47.559 was very familiar with what his dad was up to, 303 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.599 and his dad, to some degree, didn't really hide it. 304 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:54.519 His dad just kind of passed it off as I'm 305 00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.319 intrigued with beautiful women. Here's some if you want to 306 00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:58.920 look at it, and it was that kind of thing. 307 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:03.799 He wasn't ashamed of it. However, as this obsession with 308 00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:08.599 pornography grew, it certainly harmed Crane's personal life, and it 309 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.759 certainly harmed his career as well, because executives at Disney 310 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:14.839 on down were starting to catch when that. 311 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:20.240 This guy had this dark side, and for Disney particularly, 312 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.319 that was not a good fit. That caused a lot 313 00:18:23.359 --> 00:18:26.319 of trouble, and they were worried about image at Disney, 314 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:29.480 as they rightfully should be, and so it cost him 315 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:30.960 some jobs. There's no doubt about it. 316 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:39.480 Now the relationship between John Carpenter and Bob Crane may 317 00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:43.680 have changed. And you write that by the time nineteen 318 00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:48.319 seventy eight rolled around, Bob could certainly handle the videotaping 319 00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.200 himself and certainly wouldn't need anybody to consult them. Things 320 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:53.720 had changed and he had learned quite a bit and 321 00:18:53.720 --> 00:18:56.079 there was other people that could help him if need be. 322 00:18:57.519 --> 00:18:59.480 Some of the evidence you have is that you had 323 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.759 it was a conversation with Bob and his son, Bob Jr. 324 00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:08.039 About John Carpenter. What was said at that time and 325 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:12.480 what you think the relationship was turning into or changing to. 326 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:17.160 Well, I think according to Bob Junior, and he's the 327 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:18.960 best source on this because he's the one who had 328 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:22.079 his conversation with his father. He said his father, as 329 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:27.680 he was approaching fifty, was starting to worry about what 330 00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:31.759 the next few years would bring. He wasn't the matinee 331 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:35.680 Idol anymore. He wasn't the young Hogan in Hogan's Heroes. 332 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:38.599 He was a middle aged guy approaching fifty and worried 333 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.759 about could he continue to get work, would anybody want 334 00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:45.400 to see him perform? I even have the recount in 335 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:49.359 the book of his last radio interview, which was at 336 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:52.519 the station that I currently work. It was cool radio, 337 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:55.359 and he was definitely looking ahead to fifty and worried 338 00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:58.839 about whether he would be viable in the entertainment business. 339 00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:03.240 It worried him. As time was going on, he relayed 340 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.720 to his son that he felt Carpenter was becoming a nuisance. 341 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:09.680 Carpenter had been meeting him out on the road for 342 00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:13.359 several years by this point, and they would go wherever 343 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:17.640 Crane's dinner, theater engagements took him, whether it was Austin 344 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:23.000 or Phoenix or some far flung city. Crane would have 345 00:20:23.079 --> 00:20:25.160 his video equipment. He'd be on stage for an hour 346 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:27.680 and a half at night doing Beginner's Luck, and then 347 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:30.680 he had to fill the time the other hours of 348 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:34.000 the day, the other eighteen nineteen hours of the day. 349 00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:37.759 He wasn't a drinker. He wasn't a smoker. I didn't gamble. 350 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:39.599 He was a womanizer. 351 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:40.680 That was his. 352 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:46.720 Crack cocaine, and he loved videotaping it. And for many 353 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:49.720 years he needed Carpenter to help him with this expertise. 354 00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:53.200 But as the equipment got better and better and Bob 355 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:56.000 Crane became more familiar with this equipment, he didn't need 356 00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:59.279 John Carpenter hanging around and showing up in every city. 357 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:01.599 Crane by this point could do it on his own. 358 00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:05.160 He didn't need a sidekick, and Carpenter was becoming a 359 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:08.759 little bit cree police theory. That's Bob Crane Junior's theory, 360 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:11.480 and Bob Crane Junior felt as his father was hitting 361 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:14.759 fifty he wanted to make changes in his life and 362 00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:19.079 shed some of these habits, some of the hanger ons, 363 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:23.119 particularly Carpenter, and kind of start to reassess a little bit. 364 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.200 His son believes he was in that process and it 365 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:28.559 came to a head in Scottsdale in the summer of 366 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:29.240 seventy eight. 367 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:34.480 Do you think there is anything to the idea that 368 00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:39.720 if you look at the good looks and the charm 369 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:43.599 and the star status that Bob Crane was still enjoying 370 00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:50.720 at that time, where John Carpenter was older and certainly 371 00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:54.319 didn't have any of those things to his advantage, and 372 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:57.640 yet wanted to be included in three ways. Do you 373 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.640 think this difficulty as Bob got a little bit older, 374 00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:02.759 as you write in the book, sometimes they would go 375 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:05.000 out and they would strike out in terms of not 376 00:22:05.119 --> 00:22:08.640 getting lucky as opposed to Bob Crane probably having a 377 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:10.559 better track record on his own. Do you think this 378 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:12.079 pould have been part. 379 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:16.119 Of Yeah, he definitely did. Dan. I mean, Bob Crane 380 00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:19.880 was still in nineteen seventy eight. There was still a 381 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:24.400 cachet in being Colonel Hogan. This show was in heavy, 382 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:29.200 heavy rerun around the country. I'm trying to liken it 383 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:31.799 to someone currently, and it would be as if Ashton 384 00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:40.359 Coocher were murdered, or maybe Charlie Sheen murdered, a comedic 385 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:44.559 actor on television primarily who would be savagely murdered and 386 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:47.400 everybody would say, what in the world. Now with Charlie Sheen, 387 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:50.200 you might understand it because it's a risky lifestyle. No 388 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:52.400 one knew this about Bob Crane at the time, except 389 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:56.119 the very intimates in his circle that he was obsessed 390 00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:58.920 with pornography, a lot of people didn't know this. So 391 00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:01.480 when he died here in Scottsdale, when he was murdered, 392 00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:04.160 it was a shock not only to us here but 393 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:06.960 to the nation that this kind of belve guy on 394 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:09.200 television that we'd grown up with would meet this kind 395 00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:12.680 of fate. Crane could still pick up women. He had 396 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:16.839 a very good track record. Carpenter hanging around was something 397 00:23:16.839 --> 00:23:21.519 of a distraction. Perhaps was even maybe a bit of 398 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:25.599 an albatross around Crane's neck when he'd go out, because 399 00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:27.519 he had to worry about what Carpenter was up to 400 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:30.119 and what Carpenter was thinking and feeling. They were friends, 401 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.559