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Speaker 1: Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster

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movies and psychoanalyze them. My name is Brittany Brownfield and

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I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by.

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Speaker 2: Ben Stover, individual therapist.

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Speaker 1: Hannah Espinoza, marriage and family therapists. We're all licensed clinical

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professional counselors also known as therapists who practice out of Chicago.

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Even though we are licensed mental health professionals, this podcast

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is purely for entertainment purposes and to fulfill our love

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of dissecting pop culture and all forms.

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Speaker 2: Please remember that, even though we are all licensed therapists,

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we aren't your therapist.

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Speaker 3: If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find

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a local mental health provider.

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Speaker 1: Welcome. So today we are going to talk about Insight

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Out too. Even though this movie came out last year,

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in twenty twenty four, I feel like we've gotten many,

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many requests to do it.

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Speaker 2: We certainly have absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Dropped people were asking us to do it, So we're

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finally doing.

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Speaker 2: It because we're happy to oblige.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And as soon as I saw in theaters, I thought,

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oh oh yeah, oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, as soon as we saw the trailer, we knew.

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Speaker 1: Oh for sure. Yeah, absolutely, Like.

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Speaker 2: An episode is coming, no doubt.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And so we will be exploring sense of self

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and anxiety today as anxiety is the new main character

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of Inside Out Too, because basically what the movie is

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about is our main character, Riley, starts to edge into

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adulthood because she's leaving middle school right yep, And with

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that becomes puberty, and with that becomes more complicated motions.

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So she gets anxiety on we embarrassment and envy, envy

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and nostalgia. Well, nostalgia's coming too early. Yeah, she gotta

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go back in the closet. But yeah, so we will

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be touching upon, like we said, sense of self and

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anxiety as those are the two main hitters that are

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discussed in this movie, because this movie pretty much starts

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with the development of that idea. That's the thing that

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gets introduced right in the beginning of this movie is

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now that it Riley's older, she's developing her sense of self,

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which is this how would you describe it?

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Speaker 2: A trophy kind.

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Speaker 1: Of it's like a little light squiggle, yeah, in the

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middle of her film.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but like one of the fancy filaments you'd see

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at a fancy restaurant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's still pretty I guess one dimensional, you

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would say her sense of self, and that it's at

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the beginning of the movie. It's still made up by

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the basic emotions that we met in the first movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, still made by the more simple, basic right brain emotions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a good person, I'm a good friend, very

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basic ideas.

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Speaker 2: Which is normal for kids. It's not until after ten

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that they really start to develop that more complicated sense

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of self in the first place.

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Speaker 1: Like we said, like puberty gets are introduced into this movie,

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which immediately complicates her sense of self.

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Speaker 2: Oh, immediately, as as soon as we start developing into

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a little mini version of an adult that can perceive

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that there are in fact consequences to our actions and

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things aren't so easy anymore. We really have to start

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digesting a whole lot more information on a whole lot

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more levels. And it gets hard really fast.

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Speaker 1: Because she's at this age where you're thinking, it gets

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more sophisticated, and like you said, Ben, you're more aware

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of everything around you, how other people perceive you. There's

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just a lot more like I don't know, like what

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I really like in the beginning of this movie is

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when they're looking at her islands m h and they're

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like family islands still there, but it's teeny tiny and

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it's being blocked by friend island, which is huge.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: And that's such a good almost like foreshadowing absolutely in

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this movie, where once you hit this age, you're just

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very aware of the opinions of others outside of your

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family system and get very influenced by the opinions of

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others outside of your family system. Because we see a

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Riley at the beginning who's very securely attached, thinking she's

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a good person and all those things. Is because she

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does have a fairly simple, secure relationship to her parents.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, their relationship seems really solid and comfortable most of

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the time, but we do see the emergence of some moods.

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Speaker 3: It's really interesting because I feel like I can remember

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being thirteen and feeling all of the emotions at once,

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like when everything gets really messed up as soon as

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the puberty board kind of shows up and the demolition

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the demolition happens, and how she goes from feeling all

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these different emotions because and then her sense of self

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is ripped off, and that's bananas, And it just made

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me think of feeling that exact thing, of feeling so

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uncertain of how to communicate what was going on with me,

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and feeling overwhelmed, feeling overwhelmed, and feeling like my feelings

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are so big I don't know what to do with them.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I've ever once wished to go back

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to thirteen years old. No, never, have you, guys ever

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had a client say I really wish I could go

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back to junior high.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 3: I think for most of the clients I work with,

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middle school was horrible.

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Speaker 2: I think for everyone, ever, middle school is horrible, especially

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in that transition time we see Riley at where you're

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realizing your friends are going to go to different schools

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and you're alone and you're trying to fit in with

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the older kids who you are suddenly realizing are so

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much older than you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because in the first movie, right, we watch her

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come to this place where she realizes you can have

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more than just happy feelings, right, that you can have

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all sorts of feelings. And in this movie we're seeing

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her realize that even if you're a good person and

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a good friend and you do things right, sometimes things

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still don't work out right. And I feel like that

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can be such a big introduction of anxiety, as we'll

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talk about later, which is that confronting idea that you

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only have so much control over the world around you

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and how that impacts well, as we're gonna talk about

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your belief system, and like that moment in the movie

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when they're in the car going to camp and she

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clocks her friend making that squishy face like the elevens

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between her eyebrows and she's like what, And I think

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how to pulse this idea that things sometimes don't work.

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Speaker 2: Out and sometimes messing with them more makes them work

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out worse. Sometimes the more you do just screws everything up.

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The harder you try.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's why fit. That's one of my

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notes for later about how anxiety makes you act bonkers,

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Like you get in your head and then you start like, well,

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I don't know what to do with my hands kind

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of energy, which.

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Speaker 3: Is something you've probably never thought about until that first

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time you think about it. It's like the first time

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it pops into your head again, that growing that awareness

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automatically that we're being perceived in this completely different way

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that we've never been perceived before.

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Speaker 1: I've never felt being perceived, because there's a really great

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moment in the beginning of the movie when she's at

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the first hockey game, and if I remember in correctly,

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she's kind of stuck in this moment of like trying

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to figure out what to do, like should I take

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the shot or should I throw it to Grace so

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that she can score? And you can see her in

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that moment, go to her sense of self, go to

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like her collective, authentic self and find groundedness in who

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she is to make that decision and how that makes

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her feel so secure and how it makes you trust

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yourself and part of what's getting introduced to her in

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this movie, can you trust yourself? Does that even get

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you what you want to? It's like it is this

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like cracking of feeling like you can trust yourself and

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be secure in yourself and that your belief system allows

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you to be secure in yourself.

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Speaker 2: It's the cracking of the egocentrism. Yeah, right. Kids see

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the world through their own lens. They can't perceive the

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world through other people's eyes. They really need adults to

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prompt them to do that. They really just see through

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what they think, what they feel. I decided it so

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obviously that's the way it's going to go because everything

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that I'm going to do works, and.

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Speaker 1: Also because Joy's doing that thing where she's shoving all

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the bad thoughts into the back of her mind.

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Speaker 2: M hm.

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Speaker 1: So Joy is also doing that thing that you can

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do more at that age, which is just kind of

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like put bad things, blink them out. And then as

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we see over the course of this movie, which I

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do love that Joy has to learn this lesson again, yeah,

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which is that it can't all be positive. No, it

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can't all be things are good and secure. That's not realistic,

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and there's going to be a expiration date on being

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able to push things back, and we see it in

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this movie.

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Speaker 2: Which I love about both of these. It is brilliant

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writing and directing and clearly consulted with mental health people

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and neuropsychologists about how does our brain work, how do

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we develop, and how does this change? Because understanding how

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rapidly change starts to happen in between ten and fourteen

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and then again from fourteen to seventeen is really important

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to what this movie is illustrating so beautifully.

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Speaker 1: And I think another great display of that with her

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sense of self is when she starts shitting on that

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band she likes Yep later in the movie, and it

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makes that island crumble because the sark what they call

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them like aasm, a sarcasm, and I talk across the

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sarcasm and it mistranslates what they're trying to say with

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the tone. But it made me feel sad like watching

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that part, because I'm like, Oh, the way that we

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will destroy parts of ourselves when we are that age

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to seem cool to other people, and how we are

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getting like a visual on this movie of this girl

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in real time destroying parts of herself that she genuinely

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likes or liked to seem a type way to other people.

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And it's so heart wrenching. This movie really like stabs

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me in the heart a few times.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And that's something that I feel like parents get

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really worried about. Right when parents start to see that

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a kid is starting to dress different or act different

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or look different, they start to get really worried that

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their kid is doing something that they don't really want

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to do. They just want to be cool, and so

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they'll destroy anything about themselves. So I feel like sometimes

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parents also respond to big to some of the changes

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that a thirteen year old ten to thirteen year old

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does yeah, and then they're in their own anxiety.

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Speaker 2: Right, did Disney posters start to come down and upstart

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the music posters, the punk rock or the rap or

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whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: The anime or any of the horror movies, horror movies you.

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Speaker 2: Know, yeah, black lights.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, going to hot topic absolutely well, because it's a

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sad thing, right, I'm sure it's a very sad thing

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to observe. You're not there yet, Ben, but I'm sure

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it's a very sad thing to observe your child, who

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a child like Riley, who is so comfortable in what

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they like and so authentic and vulnerable to watch them

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do that to themselves at that age because we as

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adults know what they're doing while they're doing it. Yeah,

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I'm sure it Like that's heartbreaking.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Ava's largely out of the princess phase. Yeah,

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and she's turning seven next month and she's already kind

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of like eh princesses. Nah, She's into Barbie, she's into

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Harry Potter, she's got Taylor's Swift stickers all over her bed. Oh,

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and I mean Taylor is thirty five now, like Taylor's

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writing grown woman music now, I mean Ava's discovering, you know,

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the wide range of it, but rating from like that

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kiddie country to where she's at now, which is grown

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ass woman. And it is sad watching that, Like, but

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what happened to the little girl that liked Elsa? And

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she's like, Elsa's for babies.

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Speaker 3: That's it, that's the that's the sentence for babies. It's

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for babies. And once it's for babies, it's never for

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me because I'm not a baby.

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Speaker 2: Anymore until for Rousten three comes out then then it'll

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be fine again.

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Speaker 1: But I would imagine though, at this age like this,

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like thirteen preteen age, when you watch your kid kind

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of like make fun of themselves, like demoralize themselves, Like

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that's a little different than just growing out of stuff. Yeah,

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I would say it probably feels really brutal as a

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parent to watch your kid do a version of what

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she does on the couch with the other older girls.

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And it is kind of cool that her friends Grayson Brie, yeah, yes,

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Grayson Bree call her ass out.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: I feel like when I was that age, I don't

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know if I could have been that that authentic in

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front of all those girls, the older girls like if

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my friend was making fun of thing that we like together,

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and the older girls were kind of giving them positive feedback.

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I don't know if I could then double down, but

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I still like that band, you know. I think that

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says a lot about where her friends are at with

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their sense of self. Yeah, uherable being like, no, we

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like that. You fucking lie her, You're being a bitch.

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Speaker 2: But they're also in the context of this film, those

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two are staying together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. They're not as unsettled, right.

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Speaker 2: They're unsettled about knowing they have a secret, but Riley's

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unsettled when she learns the secret of learning, she'll be alone. Yeah,

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so she's trying to attach to new people and the

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cool older kids because she's feeling lost.

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Speaker 1: You're bringing up a great point, which is that the

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belief that they keep talking about in the beginning of

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the movie is I am a good friend and so yeah,

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with her two close friends leaving her, and especially because

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she's only lived in San Francisco for a few years, right, Yes,

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that that is her core identity, is her as a friend.

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So you're right, like them leaving Friend Island is crumbling

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and there's nothing there yet, so she's trying in real

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time to like build up or like reinforce Friend Island

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for later and hockey. Yeah, that's true too, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, I know the movie highlights I'm a Good friend

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over and over is that core message. So you're absolutely right,

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But they the theme of these movies too, has always been

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she's a good hockey player, and she's connecting and identifying

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with the older hockey players too. So I feel like

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those two ideas are struggling for her, or she's struggling

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with those two a figure like which one do I

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attach to? Am I a good friend to these people

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that are going to be going to a different school,

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or do I need to be a good hockey player

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and attached to the better older kid hockey players and

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be a good friend to them, Which is exactly that

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kind of complicated feeling a thirteen year old isn't going

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to navigate correctly because they don't know what to do

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with you, and they don't.

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Speaker 1: Have the wisdom yet to navigate that situation that.

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Speaker 2: It's okay for me to like this and that.

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Speaker 1: Or even that this isn't an emergency, right, that you

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don't have to figure this out in the three days

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that is hockey camp.

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Speaker 4: And if you don't figure out these three days, your

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whole life is fucked. Like you're just life is over

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for you, everything over, high school ruined.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I feel like we're starting to edge into anxiety.

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Is there anything else you want to say about sense

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of self?

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Speaker 3: I think the only thing I wanted to say about

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sense of self that I haven't had a chance to

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say is something that I talk a lot to my

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clients about is that our belief system has been made

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over time, and so the things that you believed at

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different times, that's what sticks to your brain. So like

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the I'm a good friend, right, and then all the

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thoughts that, all the little memories that have to do

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with that go into a certain place. And something that

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I work with people a lot on is these are

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old You have a lot of old beliefs that have

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compounded over time with all these other new emotions, and

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that is what in some ways, that's what we're that's

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what we have to help change. Oh for sure, the

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way that sense of self connects down to your belief system,

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the way that those beliefs can create your reality Yeah,

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and then you're only reacting to all of these old,

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complicated beliefs instead of what's literally happening in front of you.

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Speaker 2: Correct, because reality is based on perception, and to build

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off what Hannah is saying here is helping people understand

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that earlier sense of self identity formations are made off

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experiences we have when our left side of our brain,

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where our prefrontal cortex is, is not fully online until

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we're ten, and it grows from there as we get older,

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So that means older things are much much more rooted

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in basic, simple emotions like the ones we're introduced to

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in the first film, and watching this movie show how

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incredibly important it is to expand upon those and let

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them grow our sense of self as our neurological capabilities grow,

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but also look back and recognize I may need to

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reframe some of these with new information, and it's okay

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to do so without damaging my sense of self and

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giving up everything that means something to me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's always interesting working with even like adult clients,

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where when you start doing that belief tracking like thought records,

336
00:20:41,599 --> 00:20:48,160
irrational belief stuff, how often the belief is rooted in

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something that we're talking about like something very young and

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very simple. I am bad, i am stupid, I'm not

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good enough. Yeah, what she thinks in the movie good enough,

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And how those things will still that's still what you

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can travel down and find when you're working on these things,

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because you were, like you were saying, Hannah, when I'm

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working with people and I use things like thought record

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and they have to like track you know what happened,

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What did it make me feel? And then what belief

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does it connect to and does it actually rationally have

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something to do with actually what's happening in front of me,

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or I am pulling that belief forward and pushing it

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into the situation. So if my friend rolls their eyes

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at me, if I see my friend roll their eyes

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or my partner roll their eyes, am I letting that stimuli,

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that information go right down to nobody likes me, or

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I'm not good enough or everyone's mad at me all

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the time. And sometimes when I do thought records with

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especially with adults, it can feel a little embarrassing how

356
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simplistic those beliefs are because they are so simple and young. Yep,

357
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And that part it can feel it's very vulnerable to

358
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be like, oh, it's like just keeps coming back to

359
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this very simple young idea.

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Speaker 2: That is why in EMDR work we do what's called

361
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the float back, and we start with wherever that perception

362
00:22:25,839 --> 00:22:29,319
is right, what's the present stimuli that made you feel

363
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that way, what's the situation, what happened, and then you

364
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start walking them back to connect to that roof sensory feeling.

365
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Like I keep a feelings wheel out on the table

366
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in my office. That's one of the more complicated ones

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that has the more expansive words in the outer rungs

368
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and the simple basic emotions in the middle. And I

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think I'm going to modify it actually to put a

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black and white safe.

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Speaker 1: Oh in the very very middle in the very very.

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Speaker 2: Middle, because I've never seen one of those before, and

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I really feel like that's the message I want to

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communicate to people, is this is the way we always

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think about everything. It's not optional. Your brain perceives sensory

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information sight, sound, smell, touch, right, and everything goes in

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to the right side of our brain first, weighed first

378
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against is it safe, then to the simple emotions. Then

379
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our left side of a brain starts analyzing it and

380
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can assign bigger, more complicated words to it. But first

381
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you go, am I safe? Do I need to be mad, sad, happy,

382
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et cetera? About this disgusted? Then to well, I mean,

383
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do I feel kind of okay with this? Is this

384
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make me feel a little down? You can start making

385
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more complicated connections.

386
00:24:07,519 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: We'll create more nuance and emotional expression, right like I

387
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,960
am I frustrated? Or am I disappointed? Am I annoyed?

388
00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:16,119
Or am I enraged?

389
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Speaker 2: Yes? Thank you, that's a way better way of consolidating

390
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:21,039
that point. Thank you.

391
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,039
Speaker 1: I used to teach this a lot to little kids,

392
00:24:24,079 --> 00:24:27,680
and they used to love enraged when they learned it

393
00:24:27,799 --> 00:24:32,240
is like the biggest way you can be angry. Yeah,

394
00:24:32,279 --> 00:24:35,000
they got enraged a lot after I teach them that word.

395
00:24:35,599 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 2: Of course they did. But looking at how we run

396
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,880
everything through right brain first always is critical because when

397
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,279
you do float backs, whether it's EMDR or any other

398
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,160
technique that focuses on these ideas, is recognizing it's all

399
00:24:54,319 --> 00:24:59,960
going to go back to this simple, simple, simple shit first,

400
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,400
no matter what you do, and that's going to connect

401
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:09,079
to older, raw, bigger emotions because people aren't ever more

402
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:13,039
than that at their core. They can't be We need

403
00:25:13,079 --> 00:25:17,720
to know simple basic information and then we can assign

404
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,440
more expansive language to it later to figure out shades

405
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:24,839
and nuance of what feeling is it.

406
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 3: Let's move on to anxiety, which is the second star

407
00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:31,119
of this movie.

408
00:25:31,559 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: All R Let's take a break, care and we'll be

409
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:38,160
right back. So anxiety. This movie really does a great

410
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,880
job of portraying anxiety. And I mean that in the

411
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,839
most insulted way possible to myself. When I watch this

412
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,319
movie and they were doing anxiety, I was like.

413
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Speaker 5: Oh, Brittany was We saw it together and Brittany was

414
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:57,240
squirming in her seeds most of the time, especially around

415
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:58,519
the belief system stuff.

416
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Speaker 1: It's just really good. Yeah, yeah, it is really good.

417
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 2: You're right go ahead watching her pluck the little discordant

418
00:26:05,559 --> 00:26:11,599
strings that complicate everything with like, oh, we're not just good,

419
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,759
we also need to be afraid we're going to ruin everything.

420
00:26:16,519 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 1: Well, I think when anxiety well, what I like most

421
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,440
about the portrayal of anxiety is that it's introduced as

422
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,920
a helpful concept. It does a really good job of

423
00:26:28,079 --> 00:26:35,599
selling itself as a purely functional emotion, and that their

424
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,839
job is to like they say things like I plan

425
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,960
for the future, I help us be prepared. That the

426
00:26:42,079 --> 00:26:45,039
selling point that they're making to the other emotions at

427
00:26:45,079 --> 00:26:49,160
the beginning is like, I know what's up, and I'm

428
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,880
gonna help us know what's up, which I think is

429
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,240
exactly what I say to clients, which is that anxiety

430
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,680
is an emotion that's wearing a trench coat pretending it

431
00:26:59,759 --> 00:27:03,720
is just a really smart problem solver, but it is

432
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,559
an emotion. Yes, that's pretending it's not an emotion.

433
00:27:08,519 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 2: Yep. This is what I walk through with people all

434
00:27:12,039 --> 00:27:13,640
the time. I don't know if i've said on the

435
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,680
podcast before the metaphor I have for it, but I

436
00:27:16,759 --> 00:27:21,960
describe anxiety as a little creature that sits in your

437
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,720
head writing out plans.

438
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think it as the muse and X monster.

439
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 2: Maybe, I mean, if that's what you think about it. Yeah,

440
00:27:32,079 --> 00:27:34,440
I try not to say it's a little guy sitting

441
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:35,279
inside your head.

442
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: Writing plans, plotting and scheming.

443
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 2: Plotting and scheming, but that's basically what it is. It's

444
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,799
this little creature that sits in your head and writes

445
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:51,160
up a detailed response plan, a battle plan to absolutely

446
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:57,200
every possible scenario you can think of. But my favorite

447
00:27:57,279 --> 00:28:01,200
question to ask people is what do you do with

448
00:28:01,519 --> 00:28:05,359
all of the plans that created that you never used.

449
00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:10,079
And they usually get eyes wide and go like, oh

450
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:16,359
my god, it's hoarding. Oh in my head, yes, yeah,

451
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,279
it's hoarding. It's keeping stuff that you don't need and

452
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:26,599
will never need, with the idea that because you thought

453
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,359
of it, you are now safer.

454
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think it's just a good job of

455
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,440
introducing anxiety as this problem solver, as this person that

456
00:28:37,519 --> 00:28:40,480
thinks that collecting all this information and doing all this

457
00:28:40,519 --> 00:28:45,440
what we call catastrophizing, is smart. And then also with

458
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,240
the juxtaposition of how it anxiety starts treating joy and

459
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,960
the other feelings like you don't know what you're doing.

460
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,240
It reminds me a lot of people that are high

461
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,839
functioning anxious people and how they will own over value

462
00:29:01,839 --> 00:29:06,039
their anxiety as why they are successful yep, or why

463
00:29:06,079 --> 00:29:08,559
they can do all the things they're doing, and that

464
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:14,880
they need their anxiety to be successful and productive, and

465
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,519
will kind of give me the same arguments that anxiety

466
00:29:19,559 --> 00:29:23,319
is giving to the other fromotions, which is no, no, no, no no,

467
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:30,519
you are just like silly, stupid optimists, And it's not smart.

468
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 2: To not be anxious because if you're not afraid, you're

469
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:36,759
not paying attention.

470
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're being a silly, stupid, happy person.

471
00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:47,559
Speaker 2: Which is ridiculous because you should be constantly on guard

472
00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:51,599
and prepared for all the things that could possibly go wrong,

473
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,920
because you don't dare want to be caught flat footed

474
00:29:56,119 --> 00:29:58,880
and thinking there was something else you could have done

475
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,920
to prevent this from being a catastrophe, which is both

476
00:30:04,039 --> 00:30:07,759
true and not true, which makes anxiety such an asshole

477
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:14,960
of a disorder, because normal anxiety is good. It's the

478
00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:19,799
thing that lives in between perceiving a threat and resolving it.

479
00:30:20,759 --> 00:30:26,039
You need it. You need to be uncomfortable with something

480
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,720
that is dangerous to you, whether it's dangerous socially dangerous,

481
00:30:30,759 --> 00:30:35,839
physically dangerous financially, you should probably be uncomfortable enough that

482
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,079
you make a change that resolves the issue. The problem

483
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,880
was when it becomes a disorder is it's not functioning

484
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,319
correctly anymore. It doesn't let go.

485
00:30:47,799 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: Well because anxiety is supposed to be part of the team.

486
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,799
Anxiety is supposed to be at the same level as

487
00:30:53,839 --> 00:30:57,480
all the other emotions. And this movie is showing what

488
00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:00,440
you're talking about, which is when you have like generalized

489
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,799
anxiety disorder, and anxiety is running the show, and anxiety

490
00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:08,920
is making all the decisions or the primary decisions, the

491
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,440
primary decision maker.

492
00:31:10,519 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: And it's cloting up your brain.

493
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: That it does not work well.

494
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: Nope. In fact, it makes you less likely to be

495
00:31:19,119 --> 00:31:23,000
successful because you're going to be amped up because the

496
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,519
more anxious you get, the higher your stress meter goes.

497
00:31:27,079 --> 00:31:30,720
And your stress meter only goes from zero to ten.

498
00:31:31,559 --> 00:31:36,480
And at eight nine ten, none of us function well

499
00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:41,079
because our other more simple emotions start kicking on and

500
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,119
do what they're supposed to do. Anger starts breaking shit.

501
00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:49,400
I'm just so stressed up, throw and it can't see it.

502
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:56,200
It can't see that being that nervous, stressed on guard

503
00:31:56,640 --> 00:32:01,039
actually makes you less able to use the whole team

504
00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:05,039
in the ways you're supposed to. When I think about

505
00:32:05,079 --> 00:32:09,240
the Little Creature writing battle plans, I always always pair

506
00:32:09,319 --> 00:32:13,319
it with the quote from Colin poul that no battle

507
00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:17,519
plan survives contact with the enemy ever, which is important

508
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:21,480
to understand. No matter how well you plan out every

509
00:32:21,599 --> 00:32:24,240
step of this, if that's what you think is going

510
00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:27,440
to happen, you're going to lock into that and not

511
00:32:27,599 --> 00:32:33,519
be able to adaptively, to respond strategically and authentically to

512
00:32:33,599 --> 00:32:37,279
whatever changes happen. You're going to be constantly trying to

513
00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:41,680
shoehorn a solution into chaos, and it's not going to work.

514
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,000
You need to be able to just instinctively respond to

515
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:48,240
whatever's going on, because your instincts will take over and

516
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,160
take care of you. But anxiety never ever believes that.

517
00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: Well, anxiety is distrustful, which serves a function when it's

518
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,839
part of the team, right, Like, anxiety is the part

519
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,240
of you that's supposed to be like ooh, like red

520
00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:07,720
flag there, or hey, like what's that thing happening over there?

521
00:33:08,319 --> 00:33:10,839
Like it's supposed to bring your attention to something that

522
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:15,119
maybe you shouldn't trust, correct And when it is so

523
00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:21,599
full blown like this, you don't trust anything, including and

524
00:33:21,599 --> 00:33:24,920
sometimes especially yourself, because, as we're saying, like in the

525
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,640
beginning of this movie, Riley is very grounded in her

526
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,000
sense of self. She's very grounded in what she likes

527
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,079
and what she's good at and who she is. And

528
00:33:33,119 --> 00:33:36,400
so when anxiety is pumping at full throttle like this,

529
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,359
you don't even trust yourself. And because you don't trust yourself,

530
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:47,599
you can't relax into your instincts, into your body, into

531
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,119
how you move your body. Like even the scene where

532
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,839
she's walking behind them and she's like, how do my

533
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,519
arms move her hands? What you do with her hands? Yeah,

534
00:33:56,519 --> 00:33:58,480
and she's like trying to do what the other girls

535
00:33:58,519 --> 00:34:00,960
are doing. That's such a good example of how, like

536
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,400
anxiety you will get into your head to such a

537
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,519
degree that you don't even know how to like move

538
00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:09,639
your body normal or move your body in a way

539
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:13,239
that is natural to you, because you don't even trust

540
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:17,280
yourself to like know what you should be doing, which.

541
00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 2: Just causes you to be the awkwardest awkward turtle I know,

542
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:25,000
which is what she was. Watching her with the older

543
00:34:25,039 --> 00:34:26,719
girls was just painful.

544
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: Yes, the many many well, every part where anxiety takes over,

545
00:34:33,119 --> 00:34:34,719
and like when she's talking to the girl in the beginning,

546
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,239
she's like, sorry, I go, your phone's taken away. Every

547
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,360
moment is like cringe City on purpose, obviously, but it

548
00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:47,480
just yeah, makes yourself self doubting and also makes you

549
00:34:47,559 --> 00:34:49,199
do what you see what we see you're doing the movie,

550
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:53,199
which is looking outside of yourself for the correct answer.

551
00:34:53,599 --> 00:34:56,079
Mm hm, Like if I just know what's in the

552
00:34:56,119 --> 00:34:59,960
coach's notebook, if I just know what the other girl

553
00:35:00,119 --> 00:35:02,559
are thinking about me, if I just copy what they like,

554
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,119
then that's the right answer. Like I can't trust my

555
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,920
internal compass, so I have to go outside with it.

556
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,559
But because it's external, it's always going to be weird.

557
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 3: I think that's one of the meanest parts of anxiety,

558
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,360
is the fact that it undermines your sense of self

559
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,599
and it undermines your ability to trust yourself. And I

560
00:35:24,639 --> 00:35:27,639
think that's one of the meanest parts because that really

561
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:33,159
shakes up every decision that somebody makes, especially when anxiety

562
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,440
is running the whole console. What I thought was really

563
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:41,360
interesting was how how I feel like all the ways

564
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,440
that they portrayed her in terms of like with the

565
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,960
walking and with the when whenever she's with the older girls,

566
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,760
all of those experiences, I feel like I've seen those

567
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,880
things happen. I've watched kids do that stuff, or I

568
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,639
was one of the kids who did that stuff.

569
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,599
Speaker 1: I was one of the right whatever.

570
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 3: We were all so exactly exactly, all just trying so

571
00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:08,559
hard to figure out how to fit in with other people.

572
00:36:09,679 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 1: When she puts that red in her hair, I could

573
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,400
like die from secondhand embarrassment. Like that's what I mean

574
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,719
when I say anxiety is a scam artist. Trying to

575
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,239
trick you into thinking that it's being rational. It's like, yeah,

576
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:26,599
if I just put this road in my hair and

577
00:36:26,639 --> 00:36:28,760
match the other girls, that'll fix all these problems.

578
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 2: I'll fit in, they'll accept me.

579
00:36:31,559 --> 00:36:36,639
Speaker 1: That is such like an emotional, fantastical idea that's rooted

580
00:36:36,679 --> 00:36:40,760
in nothing actually rational. But anxiety will make you think like, oh,

581
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,639
we're being so rational right now, we're connecting the dots

582
00:36:43,679 --> 00:36:44,440
like a motherfucker.

583
00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:48,679
Speaker 2: Obviously they'll just like I have read in my hair,

584
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,559
just like them. Never mind, it's a thing that's part

585
00:36:51,639 --> 00:36:56,400
of their click that they earn through shared experiences, and

586
00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:00,000
I'm just co opting that. Not cool?

587
00:37:01,599 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 1: And something I really love in this movie is how

588
00:37:05,519 --> 00:37:11,840
we see anxiety co opt parts of Riley's brain that

589
00:37:12,039 --> 00:37:16,199
used to be positive, like the fact that they the

590
00:37:16,199 --> 00:37:21,880
writers thought to incorporate her imagination and how anxiety takes

591
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:26,559
over her imagination to use for catastrophizing and what ifing

592
00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,960
was so well done because I don't think I even

593
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:35,400
really thought about it as like your imagination going sour? Yeah,

594
00:37:36,519 --> 00:37:39,760
And that is exactly what it is. Is your imagination

595
00:37:40,039 --> 00:37:44,960
is using that strength within you that especially if you

596
00:37:45,039 --> 00:37:46,840
identify it as a strength and then it's part of that,

597
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,719
like I said that scam, it's doing of like, see,

598
00:37:50,559 --> 00:37:55,760
we're smart thinkers and we're thinking ahead when really that's

599
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,519
what we call in the biz a cognitive distortion, sometimes

600
00:37:59,519 --> 00:38:02,880
also called thinking error. And that's one of my favorite

601
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,400
things to do with anxious clients is I show them

602
00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:10,840
a handout I have from like the nineties and it

603
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,880
looks like something that would be on an overhead projector nice.

604
00:38:14,159 --> 00:38:15,800
I like how old it looks too, because then I

605
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,480
say to people, see, how like what you're doing is

606
00:38:19,519 --> 00:38:23,400
not a new thing. It's not a novel thing. It

607
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,239
is something that's so common when you have anxiety that

608
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,599
there's ten categories for it that's been around for decades,

609
00:38:30,199 --> 00:38:33,440
and I go through them with the client and usually

610
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,159
they'll be like, oh, yeah, I do that, yep, I

611
00:38:35,199 --> 00:38:36,719
do that, Yep I do that, yep I do that.

612
00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:42,480
And noticing and naming something as a cognitive distortion is

613
00:38:42,519 --> 00:38:45,079
one of the first ways that you can start to

614
00:38:45,199 --> 00:38:50,440
crack the idea that your anxiety knows what it's doing.

615
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,400
And catastrophizing is the main one we see in this movie,

616
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,480
the what ifing she does, but there's also things like

617
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:02,920
mind reading, assuming what other people are thinking about you,

618
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,920
M M. Forecasting like the thing she does, which is

619
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,719
also like catastrophygzing. But the amount of times I've worked

620
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:11,760
with teenagers and they think if they like get one

621
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,840
bad grade on one test, that they're literally gonna have

622
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:18,159
a horrible life. They'll be like, if i get a

623
00:39:18,199 --> 00:39:20,320
bad grade on this exam, then I'm going to fail

624
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:21,840
this class, that I'm not going to get into a

625
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,639
good college. Then I can't get a good job to

626
00:39:23,639 --> 00:39:24,480
support a family.

627
00:39:24,519 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 2: And I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa.

628
00:39:26,519 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 1: So this one test now is not just this one test.

629
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:32,159
It's like will I one day be able to have

630
00:39:32,199 --> 00:39:34,639
a family or not? And we see her do that

631
00:39:34,679 --> 00:39:38,519
in this movie. But like I said, these cognitive distortions

632
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,519
like all are nothing thinking which we do see her do,

633
00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:44,880
like if I don't make the team this year, I'll

634
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,119
never make it, or I won't make any friends, or

635
00:39:48,119 --> 00:39:50,960
I'll never play hockey again. Like taking a lot of

636
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:53,559
blame for something that's not your fault, not taking blame

637
00:39:53,559 --> 00:39:54,639
for something that is your fault.

638
00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 2: Mental filter, Yeah, it's.

639
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: All like rigidity is the way you can think of

640
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:01,039
it too, Like M hm thoughts that are very like

641
00:40:01,119 --> 00:40:05,679
extreme that use words like never, always, nobody, everybody. Those

642
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,559
are also usually signs I'll give people heads up on

643
00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:11,679
like those are all like red flags that this could

644
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:15,719
be a cognitive distortion. And so once you can accept

645
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,639
that and identify it as that, then you can start

646
00:40:18,679 --> 00:40:21,159
to break down. Okay, if I can recognize it's cognitive distortion,

647
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,880
then I know that this is something that's not rooted

648
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:29,760
in rationale. It's rooted in emotion, and it's rooted in

649
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:35,119
a very understandable desire to find certainty. Because also every

650
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:39,119
cognitive distortion is a way to try to grab at

651
00:40:39,159 --> 00:40:43,599
certainty where it does not live. So forecasting catastrophizing is

652
00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:47,119
you're trying to be certain about the future because you're

653
00:40:47,159 --> 00:40:50,280
too anxious about as seeming uncertain. Mind reading is because

654
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,000
you want to be certain about how other people feel

655
00:40:52,039 --> 00:40:56,079
about you, because it feels too difficult to not know

656
00:40:56,119 --> 00:40:59,400
how people think about you, And so it creates this

657
00:40:59,559 --> 00:41:05,159
idea that you'll feel better with certainty, but the certainty

658
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:06,440
is always negative.

659
00:41:07,079 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 2: What is a really fun question to ask people after

660
00:41:11,559 --> 00:41:15,440
you have them? I have this a similar sheet that

661
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,719
to the one you hand out that has all these

662
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,760
that looks very nineties overhead projectory, and I used to

663
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,239
have people just check off the ones they notice, yeah

664
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,639
that they do a lot. And man, watching people go

665
00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:31,599
through these like oh yeah, I do that, I do that,

666
00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:33,400
I do a fuck I need to double check that

667
00:41:33,519 --> 00:41:37,039
I do that all the time. Just go watch them

668
00:41:37,079 --> 00:41:41,880
empower themselves to challenge the cognitive distortions and do what

669
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,880
we would call reframing. Yeah, are going like, oh wait

670
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,639
a minute, Okay, So if I don't make the team

671
00:41:49,679 --> 00:41:51,079
this year, like we see her do it at the

672
00:41:51,159 --> 00:41:53,320
end of the movie, I could always try out again

673
00:41:54,039 --> 00:41:59,239
next year. And you know, subtext being there's club hockey,

674
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:03,679
there's just playing in the park, there's roller hockey. I

675
00:42:03,679 --> 00:42:06,360
can do lots of things to still have hockey even

676
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:07,559
if I'm not a fire hawk.

677
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

678
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: Absolutely, which was a cruel move by the movie to

679
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:14,880
be all about anxiety, and then we don't find out

680
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:15,559
if she made it.

681
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 1: I like that and I liked it too. Actually, actually

682
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:20,480
it was like that's baller when I watched it again

683
00:42:20,519 --> 00:42:22,920
today because I forgot that happened. M Yeah, And I

684
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,000
was like, I like that. They don't give us certainty.

685
00:42:25,159 --> 00:42:28,480
They're teaching us a lesson in this movie. Absolutely, but

686
00:42:28,559 --> 00:42:31,679
there might not be a quote unquote happy ending, although

687
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,119
we could stay Yeah, well, yeah, I agree, but I

688
00:42:35,199 --> 00:42:37,039
still like that they kind of left it open ended

689
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,760
so that we have to sit with our anxiety and

690
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:47,159
uncertainty about what happens. It was a very artistic move. Yeah, absolutely, so.

691
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 3: Hearing both of you talk about having the sheet that

692
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,599
you use with cognitive distortions, I also have one. I

693
00:42:52,639 --> 00:42:54,880
don't think it's from the nineties, and I use that

694
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,400
and I do a step further, so I go through

695
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,599
and have clients identify which ones do they use the

696
00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:02,719
most out of all of them, and then I make

697
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,400
them for a week, to the best of their ability,

698
00:43:06,039 --> 00:43:09,000
keep track of how often it's happening, and kind of

699
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,159
what I tell them is we need to know where

700
00:43:12,159 --> 00:43:15,800
to start. So like if you're doing if you're doing

701
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,280
fortune telling, like one hundred times a day, then that's

702
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,320
where we need to start, versus starting in another spot

703
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,960
and so, and then we come up with different thoughts

704
00:43:28,519 --> 00:43:33,320
to help create neutral thoughts to go along with the

705
00:43:33,559 --> 00:43:37,639
anxiety thoughts that they're having to kind of help them

706
00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:40,719
switch to something that's a little bit less rigid.

707
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 2: Basically, yeah, and it's hugely important, and the entire basis

708
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,960
of CBT, ACT DBT, any cognitive based therapy is helping

709
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,920
people understand some of these things you're taking for granted

710
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:03,440
might not be the truth. And one of my favorite

711
00:44:03,519 --> 00:44:07,280
questions to ask people that usually gets the oh is

712
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,199
when I ask them how their imagination got hijacked, basically like,

713
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:15,239
so you imagine all of these things, you run through,

714
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,360
all these negatives canna happen? How many times did you

715
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:21,840
imagine everything going well?

716
00:44:22,639 --> 00:44:24,119
Speaker 1: What they try to do with her in the movie

717
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:29,679
where they start what iffing positives and what happens is

718
00:44:29,679 --> 00:44:32,199
what usually happens right, which as anxiety goes, shut the

719
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,000
fuck up, yep, you're being stupid, you're not being prepared.

720
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:38,639
Speaker 2: And then the other question I learned to ask with

721
00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:45,039
that is how often did you imagine things going just okay? Right,

722
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:53,440
not good, not bad, just okay? And they're like never,

723
00:44:54,199 --> 00:44:58,280
never times do I imagine it anything other than awesome

724
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,199
or terrible? Me, Like, I always see that kind of

725
00:45:02,199 --> 00:45:05,719
discussion with anxiety, like Luke and Han on the Millennium

726
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,920
Falcon talking about whether to go get Lea off the

727
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,880
Death Star, and like Luke's like trying to appeal to Han,

728
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:19,199
going well, she's rich, and Han's like, how rich? I mean,

729
00:45:19,679 --> 00:45:22,679
she's more rich than you can imagine. I don't know,

730
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,199
I can imagine quite a bit. And you just watch

731
00:45:27,559 --> 00:45:30,360
anxiety have a war inside your head going like, yeah,

732
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,159
I don't know, imagine, I can imagine so many ways

733
00:45:34,199 --> 00:45:38,159
that this goes fucking terrible for me that I think

734
00:45:38,199 --> 00:45:40,480
we need to prepare for all of them, and all

735
00:45:40,519 --> 00:45:43,280
the rest of you parts going like all things could

736
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:47,800
be happy and shiny and fun, need to fuck off. Well,

737
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:48,559
you're bringing up with me.

738
00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: Both are bringing up an important point, which is that, yeah,

739
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,519
I also think that it's more helpful and matches more

740
00:45:56,519 --> 00:45:59,960
of the situation to encourage clients to practice new track

741
00:46:01,159 --> 00:46:03,360
in their thinking, because if you try to go to

742
00:46:03,519 --> 00:46:11,159
positive it can be just as irrational or unrealistic as

743
00:46:11,199 --> 00:46:13,119
the very negative, right, and so a lot of times

744
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:16,119
your anxiety or your brain in general will like poop

745
00:46:16,159 --> 00:46:20,559
out the positive thing, be like well that's ridiculous now,

746
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:22,679
or like we don't want to get our hopes up,

747
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,639
and so neutrality is more realistic, and so it's your

748
00:46:26,199 --> 00:46:29,599
brain's more likely to accept it, and it's also helps

749
00:46:29,639 --> 00:46:33,719
to practice flexibility with your thinking, because most things in

750
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,280
life are neutral correct. Very few things are very very

751
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,280
bad or very very good things. Things are just neutral,

752
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:40,960
are nothing.

753
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 2: Burgers are neither good nor bad, but thinking makes them.

754
00:46:46,039 --> 00:46:46,119
Speaker 6: So.

755
00:46:48,039 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 2: Most things are just neutral. But if you overthink them

756
00:46:54,679 --> 00:46:59,119
or overhype and try to be something other than you are,

757
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:01,639
you're likely to end up.

758
00:47:03,079 --> 00:47:06,199
Speaker 1: Not Okay, you're gonna make it weird. You're gonna make

759
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,039
it a thing. We're more likely to make it a

760
00:47:08,119 --> 00:47:11,360
thing by overthinking it. Like we've seen this movie, she

761
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:13,440
gets put in her foot in her mouth yep, because

762
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,320
she's getting in her head and that's what makes things weird,

763
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,760
and that's what's making the reactions from the older girls happen,

764
00:47:22,119 --> 00:47:23,840
not just her as her.

765
00:47:24,559 --> 00:47:28,400
Speaker 2: Yeah right, and then it can spiral into like the

766
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:35,480
complicated mix of anger and anxiety, which is envy. Yeah.

767
00:47:35,519 --> 00:47:39,039
Speaker 1: I liked how they teamed up because it is like

768
00:47:39,079 --> 00:47:43,199
that idea of like comparisons, the thief of joy that

769
00:47:43,519 --> 00:47:46,639
envy does really pump up anxiety in a lot of

770
00:47:46,639 --> 00:47:50,159
ways because it also goes back to when you don't

771
00:47:50,159 --> 00:47:53,320
trust yourself and you're looking for the outside, so you're

772
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:57,159
looking around other people and comparing yourself and figuring out

773
00:47:57,199 --> 00:48:00,480
what do they have that I don't have? Cove if

774
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,400
you will, very biblical way of putting it. And it

775
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,480
does make sense that those things, those emotions would be

776
00:48:07,519 --> 00:48:12,199
little teammates in this movie because it's poking, poking, poking, poking,

777
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:13,079
poking at stuff.

778
00:48:14,199 --> 00:48:21,119
Speaker 2: Absolutely and what those like little emotions in between all serve.

779
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,400
The purpose of doing was showing that within our body

780
00:48:24,639 --> 00:48:29,639
we have activators and deactivators. And the way they would

781
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:37,719
show On WE or embarrassment like snap, the ridiculous behavior

782
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:43,599
off of like what are you doing? Stop right now?

783
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:49,840
Embarrassment and just going like whoa hide, stop, you're being absurd.

784
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,880
And then I loved the on WE character.

785
00:48:54,039 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, oh absolutely my favorite mine too, those hysterical Yeah.

786
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,519
Speaker 2: I love that they hired like a French model to

787
00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:02,440
be on WI.

788
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 1: You just and she won the Pump Door. She's one

789
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,199
of the few women that have ever won the Pumped

790
00:49:07,199 --> 00:49:07,880
War for acting.

791
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:09,119
Speaker 2: I do not know what.

792
00:49:09,199 --> 00:49:12,079
Speaker 1: I don't know what that is. It's the con Con

793
00:49:12,079 --> 00:49:14,079
Film Festival, like the biggest prize you can win. It's

794
00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:19,599
one of the most coveted a cinematic awards you can win.

795
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:22,199
So she was one of those co stars and blue

796
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,280
is the warmest color, okay, which won everything like in

797
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,960
twenty thirteen. Yeah, her last name is this crazy long

798
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,360
Greek name like s S is that. Her name is

799
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:37,800
Adele Escar Pelosis or something.

800
00:49:39,519 --> 00:49:43,320
Speaker 2: It's like ten letters, as many Greek names are. That's

801
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:47,119
why Jennifer Aniston chopped off half the letters in her name.

802
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

803
00:49:49,039 --> 00:49:54,480
Speaker 2: But the beauty of that of seeing we have on

804
00:49:54,679 --> 00:49:57,440
and offs, and we have off ramps to all of

805
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,079
these intense emotions that can literally stop us in our tracks.

806
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:06,880
Shame exists to stop anger usually or anything else, any

807
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:10,039
other basic emotion going like, hey, you're not supposed to

808
00:50:10,119 --> 00:50:13,280
do that. If somebody cuts you in line at the

809
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,199
grocery store, your anger might kickanu, tell them all about theirselves,

810
00:50:17,519 --> 00:50:19,159
throw them, grab them by the back of the collar.

811
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:24,760
And Shame's like, uh, you're gonna get arrested if you

812
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:28,840
do that. Shame and anxiety kind of combine and go, no, no, no,

813
00:50:29,039 --> 00:50:31,360
we don't do that. You'll be cast out of the

814
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,559
tribe if you do that, and at that moment we

815
00:50:34,679 --> 00:50:39,840
need it. Yeah, Or driving around in Chicago and thinking

816
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,280
about if this motherfucker cuts me off one more fucking time,

817
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,920
I'm just gonna drive their car into the wall. We

818
00:50:47,039 --> 00:50:50,280
need that shame and anxiety to go. You will die too.

819
00:50:51,199 --> 00:50:54,920
Check yourself, check yourself. It's not worth it. Let it go.

820
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,760
You'll never see them again. Do not follow them, do

821
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,480
not chase them down the street, do not teach him lesson,

822
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:01,840
none of those things.

823
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as we see in this movie, the climax

824
00:51:06,519 --> 00:51:09,519
of this movie that when something like anxiety is taking

825
00:51:09,559 --> 00:51:14,360
the front row, taking control of everything, that eventually you

826
00:51:15,039 --> 00:51:17,159
will have something like a panic attack.

827
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,079
Speaker 2: You will, which we should talk about after a break.

828
00:51:21,360 --> 00:51:23,800
Speaker 3: I think they do such a beautiful job showing what

829
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:26,639
it can be like to experience a panic attack, both

830
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:34,440
Riley's presentation of experiencing a panic attack and also her

831
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:40,880
anxiety part getting frozen. Oh, that was fantastic inside because

832
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:46,719
a set of people freeze can also experience you just

833
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,440
get so you're just so caught up in it, just

834
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:53,519
like we see anxiety who's just freaking the fuck out

835
00:51:53,599 --> 00:51:56,079
and feels like the world is caving in around them.

836
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,639
And I think they do a really good job of

837
00:51:59,679 --> 00:52:05,320
also showing Riley experiencing some of the breathing that can happen,

838
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:09,599
some of the frustration and confusion that people experience when

839
00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:13,480
they're experiencing panic attacks. And also and then also something

840
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:16,559
else that's really beautiful that we see that Riley naturally does,

841
00:52:16,679 --> 00:52:20,119
whether it's something that she's learned before or not, she

842
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:25,519
naturally begins to ground herself. She touches where she's sitting,

843
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,760
she looks up into the light, she lets go of

844
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:30,599
her hockey stick.

845
00:52:30,679 --> 00:52:31,440
Speaker 1: That's more like.

846
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 3: When she's experiencing the panic attack. Something I wanted to

847
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,079
make sure to mention about panic attacks is also that

848
00:52:37,119 --> 00:52:38,400
they can look different.

849
00:52:38,119 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 1: For different people.

850
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 3: They can It doesn't always have to be the I

851
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:44,000
feel like I'm going to die, I feel like I'm

852
00:52:44,039 --> 00:52:46,519
having a heart attack. For a lot of people, that

853
00:52:46,599 --> 00:52:49,639
is exactly what it is, but for other people it

854
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,280
can be something completely different. I break out in a

855
00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:55,719
rash when I have a panic attack, and I can

856
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:57,960
start to feel it, like my neck starts to feel tingly,

857
00:52:58,079 --> 00:53:00,840
and I can tell that this is where this is going.

858
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:03,159
Speaker 1: I'm hiding into a panic attack.

859
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:08,280
Speaker 2: You've seen it, yep. Yeah, so not just on you,

860
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,519
but on other people. Yeah, yeah, particularly during stressful EMDR sessions.

861
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:17,639
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely people experience this, and so essentially what a

862
00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:20,280
panic attack is is just really starting to feel like

863
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:23,400
nothing makes sense. I don't know what to do, and

864
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,639
everything that I thought was going to happen has happened,

865
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:28,840
or I imagine that it happened, so it feels real.

866
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:38,079
Speaker 2: It's your body entering a catastrophic shutdown where nothing that

867
00:53:38,119 --> 00:53:42,079
you do is going to work, so freak the fuck out, man.

868
00:53:43,559 --> 00:53:45,519
That's it. That's all there is to do is just

869
00:53:47,199 --> 00:53:50,960
try to run all your parts simultaneously and recognize that

870
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,920
none of them feels like they have any chance of success.

871
00:53:55,519 --> 00:53:58,599
So you just keep trying to run every one of

872
00:53:58,639 --> 00:54:03,000
those basic programs or feelings over and over and over

873
00:54:03,119 --> 00:54:05,159
and over, and none of them work, which is why

874
00:54:05,199 --> 00:54:10,199
we see anxiety and that like tornado, but also constantly

875
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:14,199
moving and trying to flip switches so fast that she

876
00:54:14,519 --> 00:54:18,000
just looks like she's glitching out because that's exactly what's happening,

877
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,639
and that usually causes our heart rate to spike, our

878
00:54:21,679 --> 00:54:26,159
blood pressure to spike, because our system is literally overheating

879
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:31,079
and overwhelmwhelming itself. And they just did show it beautifully.

880
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:32,360
Speaker 1: Yeah they did.

881
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,960
Speaker 3: I even like the part where Joy pulls anxiety out

882
00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:41,159
of the of the tornado. But the tornado is still

883
00:54:41,199 --> 00:54:44,599
going h and that shows that our bodies are still

884
00:54:44,639 --> 00:54:49,039
responding to this threat or whatever it is. Our body

885
00:54:49,079 --> 00:54:51,639
is still responding to it, and it takes time for the

886
00:54:51,639 --> 00:54:52,920
body to calm back down.

887
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 2: Which is the key. Yeah, that is the key. A

888
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:02,400
calm body, calm mind. It never ever works the other way.

889
00:55:03,119 --> 00:55:07,119
If you learn nothing else from us, learn that calm body,

890
00:55:07,159 --> 00:55:11,519
calm mind. You cannot calm down without the grounding that

891
00:55:11,599 --> 00:55:15,800
Hannah mentioned, coming back to your core senses and perceiving

892
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:20,360
that whatever it is that's activated in your hijacked imagination

893
00:55:21,679 --> 00:55:26,159
isn't real. And what they beautifully covered with anxiety when

894
00:55:26,159 --> 00:55:28,519
they threw her on the chair and calmed her down, like, oh,

895
00:55:28,519 --> 00:55:32,559
but this could be happening? Is it happening now?

896
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:33,039
Speaker 1: No?

897
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 2: Okay, but you have to deactivate that system out of

898
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:44,119
that complete hyper arousal by regrounding back to what you

899
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:51,519
concretely indisputably see, hear, smell, touch, taste. And we saw

900
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,920
Riley doing that, looking at the lights, re gripping the

901
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:59,199
hockey stick, looking at the faces of her friends, breathing

902
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:04,480
and slowing down and realizing all of those things could

903
00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:08,519
be true. But what is true right now? How do

904
00:56:08,599 --> 00:56:11,760
I solve this? Now? I can be a good friend

905
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,039
by hugging my friend, and then I am a good

906
00:56:15,079 --> 00:56:19,280
friend again. But if you try to think your way

907
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:25,079
through that, you'll be that orange tornado that doesn't know

908
00:56:25,079 --> 00:56:27,400
what to do. You have to ground.

909
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:30,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think a good point too with joy

910
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:34,840
taking anxiety out of that tornado is that you can't

911
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:39,519
start to feel better. You can't start to like calm

912
00:56:39,599 --> 00:56:42,119
down and regulate until you're like out of the situation

913
00:56:43,519 --> 00:56:47,480
that's freaking you out. Because even though she has that anxiety,

914
00:56:47,519 --> 00:56:49,760
the panic attack in the penalty box, it probably also

915
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,840
helps that it's in the penalty box absolutely, and she's

916
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,719
not like in the game with like things coming at

917
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:58,440
her and having to make decisions like she is kind

918
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:00,159
of in her own little space.

919
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 2: Right, And what's beautiful about that? Also? I mean everything

920
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,280
these movies just cover emotional health so well, But watching

921
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,679
that part of that system freak out and getting the

922
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:20,639
sense of self back online requires not letting fragmented parts

923
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:25,559
take over that can't see the whole picture. They have

924
00:57:25,679 --> 00:57:29,760
to work together. It has to be the whole system

925
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:37,920
perceiving everything dynamically. Your anger side can't solve that she

926
00:57:38,119 --> 00:57:41,360
shouldn't have been there, she got in my way. Wrong answer.

927
00:57:42,039 --> 00:57:44,360
Oh my god, I'm terrible. All my friends are gonna

928
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:49,719
hate me. Incorrect, everything's terrible. I broke everything. Oh I'm gross.

929
00:57:50,119 --> 00:57:52,440
All of that, none of it's going to work. But

930
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:55,719
coming back down to okay, hold on, life is going

931
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,280
to happen one minute at a time, one second at

932
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:02,119
a time, and the next right decision I make can

933
00:58:02,239 --> 00:58:07,199
deactivate my stress, which then lowers your blood pressure and

934
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:12,159
takes you out of that sensory exclusion we saw her

935
00:58:12,199 --> 00:58:15,519
going through. You can see her like not able to hear.

936
00:58:15,639 --> 00:58:17,480
You can feel I don't know how they did that,

937
00:58:17,519 --> 00:58:19,719
but you can feel the tunnel vision and whatever sound

938
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,360
they made. That high pitched wine is exactly what happens

939
00:58:23,159 --> 00:58:26,119
when you enter an extremely stressful situation. Your blood pressure

940
00:58:26,159 --> 00:58:29,000
goes so high that you get ringing in your ears

941
00:58:29,079 --> 00:58:34,239
and your eyesight literally starts to narrow, and as you

942
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,280
calm back down and realize that nothing's trying to kill

943
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,199
you right now, your life is not literally ending right

944
00:58:40,239 --> 00:58:45,559
the second you can reincorporate all available outcomes, meaning you

945
00:58:45,599 --> 00:58:47,719
need all emotions.

946
00:58:48,679 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: All right. Anything else we want to talk about before

947
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,440
we switch into treatment, So let's take a bag care

948
00:58:53,519 --> 00:58:59,360
we'll be right back. So for this episode, because there's

949
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,559
really only like one character, we focus on Riley, that's

950
00:59:02,599 --> 00:59:05,719
not an emotion, right, we thought for treatment we would

951
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:10,159
just kind of discuss different ways we help people with anxiety,

952
00:59:10,159 --> 00:59:14,280
which you've already been talking about throughout the episode. So

953
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:19,760
does anyone have any more like pointed intervention strategies modalities

954
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,760
that they want to talk about when we talk about

955
00:59:24,639 --> 00:59:27,239
anxiety management? Yeah.

956
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 3: I have a couple of different a couple of different

957
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,119
things that I that I do that I wanted to

958
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,679
bring up. Some of them are very small and some

959
00:59:33,719 --> 00:59:38,280
of them require more time and energy. But there's a

960
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,800
phrase that I talk to clients about, and it is

961
00:59:41,719 --> 00:59:44,679
I am feeling afraid, but I am not in danger.

962
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 1: That's a good one and.

963
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 3: Giving somebody that as an option to say, to say

964
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,920
to yourself, to say if you're starting to feel the symptoms,

965
00:59:58,239 --> 01:00:02,199
but also to remind your self that our bodies are

966
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,320
wired for whatever is going to happen, and if we

967
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,880
have a trauma history where really bad things have happened

968
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:15,039
to us, our body will act afraid and think that

969
01:00:15,159 --> 01:00:16,679
something bad else is going to happen.

970
01:00:17,079 --> 01:00:18,159
Speaker 2: Because it already did.

971
01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 1: Because it already did, It's irrefutable.

972
01:00:21,559 --> 01:00:26,119
Speaker 3: History, which is really which is really tricky and makes

973
01:00:26,159 --> 01:00:31,519
anxiety very just makes it just makes it hard. Some

974
01:00:31,559 --> 01:00:33,079
of the other things that I talk about, which I'm

975
01:00:33,079 --> 01:00:34,800
sure I don't know if Bernie will bring up already

976
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:36,639
because some of it is stuff that I probably stole

977
01:00:36,679 --> 01:00:41,960
from her, is TIP. I talk to clients about TIP,

978
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:47,880
which is temperature, intense exercise, and pressure. And so when

979
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,559
I talk to people about temperature, I talk to them

980
01:00:50,599 --> 01:00:53,000
about opening the freezer and kind of sticking your face

981
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,480
in the freezer, holding onto an ice cube, holding on

982
01:00:56,519 --> 01:00:57,440
to it an ice cube.

983
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,119
Speaker 1: It's just enough to.

984
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 3: Distraction for your body that you can the physiological response

985
01:01:05,039 --> 01:01:09,880
of anxiety can calm down. Intense exercise can be I

986
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:11,320
tell people do jumping jacks.

987
01:01:12,039 --> 01:01:15,559
Speaker 1: Do jumping jacks. That can help. Also pressure.

988
01:01:15,719 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 3: So when I talk about pressure, that one is a

989
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,559
little bit harder for people to do sometimes, But that

990
01:01:20,599 --> 01:01:23,920
can be getting a tight hug from somebody, that can

991
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:27,440
be using a weighted blanket, that can be even for

992
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:31,679
some people. That can be putting on tighter clothes, not

993
01:01:31,719 --> 01:01:35,000
a rubber suit. That'siculos Batman wears that big old outfit, right.

994
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:40,119
Speaker 1: Because he needs pressure, whatever needs pressure whatever. So that's

995
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:41,079
so that's one of the.

996
01:01:41,079 --> 01:01:53,559
Speaker 6: Things, Like it's nasty, So those are So that's a

997
01:01:53,639 --> 01:01:54,559
couple of things I do.

998
01:01:54,599 --> 01:01:57,679
Speaker 3: We already talked about the cognitive distortions and then I

999
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,280
just try And then the other thing that I talk

1000
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:02,880
to people a lot about is the natural anxieties of life.

1001
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:08,480
What is a natural anxiety? Natural anxiety is being anxious

1002
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:13,000
about a job interview, being anxious about your first day

1003
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,679
at a new job. Those are natural things that everybody

1004
01:02:16,719 --> 01:02:21,119
feels anxious about. And so really also helping people identify

1005
01:02:21,199 --> 01:02:24,920
is this a natural anxiety or is this the anxiety

1006
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:26,599
that kind of lives in my head all the time,

1007
01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,960
just to give them a better sense of what they

1008
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:33,559
can base their decision making on. Well, I think it

1009
01:02:33,639 --> 01:02:38,559
helps challenge the idea that we have to either be

1010
01:02:38,719 --> 01:02:40,559
someone who has a lot of anxiety and it's a

1011
01:02:40,599 --> 01:02:43,599
problem and we're irrational beings, or we don't have any

1012
01:02:43,639 --> 01:02:46,559
anxiety and we're fine and like easygoing, and.

1013
01:02:46,559 --> 01:02:51,719
Speaker 2: People who are anxious or ridiculous and broken and anxiety

1014
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:53,239
is for cowards.

1015
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:55,519
Speaker 1: So it helps with this, like what you're saying, hen

1016
01:02:55,519 --> 01:02:57,519
and it helps with this idea that, like, anxiety has

1017
01:02:57,519 --> 01:03:00,840
a purpose, and there are some things that make anyone

1018
01:03:01,039 --> 01:03:05,239
or most people feel anxious, and you feeling anxious doesn't

1019
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:08,440
mean that you have to feel anxious about feeling anxious,

1020
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,440
or judgmental about feeling anxious, or start that train going right,

1021
01:03:12,719 --> 01:03:16,039
or that you can pull your anxiety in, which is

1022
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,679
only even since I was telling yourself, like it makes

1023
01:03:21,679 --> 01:03:23,719
sense that I feel anxious because we're got a job

1024
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:26,599
interview and I don't have to and being careful that

1025
01:03:26,639 --> 01:03:28,559
my brain doesn't make it about something more than that.

1026
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:32,800
Anxiety is really good at making everything more than it is.

1027
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:38,199
Speaker 2: I like to remind people that nervousness is anxiety light,

1028
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:42,880
and it's okay to rebrand normal feelings of anxiety as

1029
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,400
being nervous.

1030
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 1: Or just stress too, like as a stressor Right.

1031
01:03:47,400 --> 01:03:52,440
Speaker 2: They're all synonyms, but if you can redefine them a

1032
01:03:52,480 --> 01:03:58,559
little bit aka reframe. Right, This is what a cognitive

1033
01:03:58,559 --> 01:04:04,079
reframe exactly is, is how you use them? Is going well?

1034
01:04:04,119 --> 01:04:08,519
Are you feeling anxious or nervous? Is this just a

1035
01:04:08,679 --> 01:04:12,559
natural response to something that's important to you that you

1036
01:04:12,679 --> 01:04:17,000
want to go well? Because it's normal for that to

1037
01:04:18,239 --> 01:04:21,360
cause you to have butterflies in your stomach and to

1038
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,880
feel your heart rate go up because you care about it,

1039
01:04:24,480 --> 01:04:27,719
and it's okay to take it seriously and recognize it's

1040
01:04:27,719 --> 01:04:31,239
important to you. It's also important to recognize that when

1041
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:35,519
you feel that way, you may need to do something extra,

1042
01:04:36,119 --> 01:04:40,559
to take action to reassure yourself that whatever you're imagining

1043
01:04:40,639 --> 01:04:45,679
might not go well doesn't. To the best of your ability,

1044
01:04:46,239 --> 01:04:49,840
can't control everything, and you already know that, but if

1045
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:55,000
you do the best that you can, you'll be confident.

1046
01:04:56,639 --> 01:05:00,519
Speaker 1: And living on uncertainty is also something I talk about

1047
01:05:00,559 --> 01:05:04,440
with anxiety treatment with people, is that so much of anxiety,

1048
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,320
I said, so much of anxiety is trying to feel

1049
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:09,679
certainty where there is uncertainty. And so a lot of

1050
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:13,760
learning how to live with anxiety is learning how to

1051
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:16,960
sit in the discomfort of not getting the reassurance you

1052
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:22,760
want of certainty that you can handle maybe not knowing

1053
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,159
what's going to happen? Can you handle not knowing everyone's

1054
01:05:26,199 --> 01:05:29,639
opinion of you? Right, and practiced just sitting in that

1055
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:33,159
instead of trying to do the kingn of distortion y

1056
01:05:33,239 --> 01:05:35,440
stuff or the reassurance seeking stuff like what I tell

1057
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,280
people reassurance seeking is is that if you're having to

1058
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:42,360
do something multiple times, or if something you're doing doesn't

1059
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:48,519
have a lasting effect, like I ask my mom everything's

1060
01:05:48,519 --> 01:05:49,840
going to be okay, but then I have to ask

1061
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:53,760
for that again like five minutes later or an hour later,

1062
01:05:54,079 --> 01:05:57,800
Then that's actually not doing doing it. If you have

1063
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:00,280
to keep doing it, that's reassurance seeking, and that that

1064
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:07,199
you're looking for a rational response to a irrational emotional

1065
01:06:07,239 --> 01:06:11,039
thing that's happening within you. And so a lot of

1066
01:06:11,039 --> 01:06:14,079
that work with anxiety like that is you just have

1067
01:06:14,119 --> 01:06:17,119
to learn how to sit in that feeling and that

1068
01:06:17,199 --> 01:06:21,519
you can handle not engaging in any sort of reassurance seeking,

1069
01:06:22,239 --> 01:06:25,960
not engaging in any catastrophizing or cognitive distortion, and just

1070
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:27,639
be with the feeling and then try to do something

1071
01:06:27,679 --> 01:06:30,679
we've been talking about, which is which is pay attention

1072
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:32,760
to if the feeling lives somewhere in your body, like

1073
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,920
my anxiety lives in my stomach, how to like breathe

1074
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,039
through that feeling, right the wave of that feeling. Maybe

1075
01:06:39,079 --> 01:06:41,880
do something like you were talking about handle like tip,

1076
01:06:42,039 --> 01:06:44,800
which can also include progressive muscle relaxation, so doing a

1077
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:48,079
body scan and saying like am I holding tension somewhere

1078
01:06:48,079 --> 01:06:51,039
in my body? And is that adding to my physical discomfort,

1079
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:55,280
which is then adding to my something is wrong feeling right?

1080
01:06:55,719 --> 01:06:58,840
And so paying attention to your body, paying attention to

1081
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:02,199
also your needs like h gret angry, lonely, tired. That's

1082
01:07:02,239 --> 01:07:05,320
also not bad if you struggle with anxiety, because if

1083
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:07,800
you struggle with anxiety, I kind of always just think

1084
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:10,639
of it as like your brain's overproducing anxiety. You have

1085
01:07:10,679 --> 01:07:13,360
a delicate ecosystem in there when it comes with anxiety,

1086
01:07:14,119 --> 01:07:15,880
and so you have to make sure that you're taking

1087
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,159
care of yourself because it can be so easy for

1088
01:07:20,079 --> 01:07:26,000
other forms of discomfort for your brain to misunderstand and mistranslate.

1089
01:07:26,079 --> 01:07:30,880
Is something's wrong, So I have to find what's wrong yep.

1090
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:33,519
And so maybe you're just hungry, maybe you haven't got

1091
01:07:33,599 --> 01:07:36,960
enough sleep, maybe even spending too much time inside. Maybe

1092
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:39,679
something else is still bothering you, and that's what's hanging

1093
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:42,079
out inside of you. And then it doesn't have to

1094
01:07:42,079 --> 01:07:43,599
be something bigger than that, it's not it has to

1095
01:07:43,639 --> 01:07:46,519
be this big mystery you have to solve. And also

1096
01:07:46,559 --> 01:07:48,360
something I wanted to highlight too, is I really do

1097
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:50,480
like how they treat anxiety at the end of the movie,

1098
01:07:51,559 --> 01:07:54,719
pulling her away from the situation, giving her a designated

1099
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:59,400
safe space to hang out that armchair, letting her like

1100
01:07:59,679 --> 01:08:04,079
ground with like a treat like the hot chocolate or whatever,

1101
01:08:04,719 --> 01:08:07,400
or a tea and sitting with her blanket and getting comfortable.

1102
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,639
And also she'd practices radical acceptance with her so like

1103
01:08:10,639 --> 01:08:13,079
what's in your control, what's not in your control? What

1104
01:08:13,159 --> 01:08:15,440
do we know? What we don't know? To help you

1105
01:08:16,359 --> 01:08:19,439
get a better sense of what's actually something you can

1106
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:22,119
take charge of. So the hockey thing, we don't have

1107
01:08:22,159 --> 01:08:25,000
control over that, because whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen.

1108
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:29,159
But what can we control our Spanish test tomorrow? Right,

1109
01:08:29,199 --> 01:08:31,560
And so it can help us feel more grounded in

1110
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:36,840
our actual we actually have control over, which can just

1111
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:40,239
help us feel better and put that energy somewhere useful.

1112
01:08:41,359 --> 01:08:45,880
Speaker 2: Yes, which is the thing that I recommend most for

1113
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:50,880
anxiety is chaining off. That is recognized that anxiety exists

1114
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:56,439
to help you resolve a problem, and you've already perceived

1115
01:08:56,479 --> 01:09:00,000
the problem, and you also already know what you can

1116
01:09:00,119 --> 01:09:04,199
can and can't do and solve. The basic truths of

1117
01:09:04,239 --> 01:09:08,279
the universe are things you were born understanding enough, so

1118
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:13,119
you know you can't control what other people think, do, say,

1119
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:20,199
et cetera. You know, all those things trying to trick

1120
01:09:20,279 --> 01:09:24,880
yourself that if you do everything exactly the right way

1121
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:32,239
and part way chain eight thousand extraordinarily unlikely events together

1122
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:36,920
in a perfectionistic way, that you will prevent bad from

1123
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:41,000
happening to you or anybody you love. Doesn't work, and

1124
01:09:41,039 --> 01:09:45,159
you already know that. What you can do with it

1125
01:09:45,199 --> 01:09:49,199
is recognize, my body is trying to communicate to me

1126
01:09:49,319 --> 01:09:52,960
that I haven't done enough that I can turn this

1127
01:09:53,079 --> 01:09:56,560
feeling off and respond to it in a way that

1128
01:09:56,600 --> 01:10:00,279
makes me feel prepared. So, like Riley did, Hey, you

1129
01:10:00,319 --> 01:10:02,560
got a lot of things you're anxious about right now.

1130
01:10:03,079 --> 01:10:06,840
It's not just hockey, it's also Spanish tests. You can't

1131
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:11,000
solve hockey, but you can lower the stress thermometer's temperature

1132
01:10:11,359 --> 01:10:15,640
by studying Spanish. And you can do that right now. Yeah,

1133
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:18,840
And that's the thing people forget to do all the

1134
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:22,279
time when they're anxious, because we enter that freeze where

1135
01:10:22,279 --> 01:10:25,119
you just panic and freak out because we don't see

1136
01:10:25,199 --> 01:10:30,000
any pathway, any off ramp. We don't use the onway

1137
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:34,560
to go chill it's whatever you need to use that

1138
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:39,199
off ramp to go okay. Stop stop thinking about this,

1139
01:10:40,239 --> 01:10:43,319
separate it out, and focus on what can I do

1140
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:48,359
right now that convinces me I've done enough. If I'm

1141
01:10:48,399 --> 01:10:51,479
worried I won't wake up in time to make practice

1142
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:54,479
in the morning, I need to set a second alarm,

1143
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:58,600
and if I do that, my anxiety will probably step

1144
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:01,199
back and chill and go Okay, we've done a thing.

1145
01:11:01,399 --> 01:11:03,479
I could also call a friend and say, hey, can

1146
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:05,840
we ride together? Can you come pick me up to

1147
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:07,840
make sure I get my ass out of bed. If

1148
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:10,560
I don't answer the door, throw rocks at my window.

1149
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,039
I'm home. Don't get any ridiculous ideas that I'm not here.

1150
01:11:14,079 --> 01:11:16,439
I'm here. Get my ass out of bed. Here's my

1151
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:19,479
spare key. If I'm not up, drag me out of

1152
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:24,000
bed and take me to practice. I'll probably be up.

1153
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,079
But if I'm not, please come in my house and

1154
01:11:26,119 --> 01:11:30,600
throw water on me, and you will have then, at least,

1155
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:36,840
even in that ridiculous narrative, created solutions that allow you

1156
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:40,079
to turn the anxiety off a bit. Because you've solved

1157
01:11:40,119 --> 01:11:42,880
the problem, you don't have to worry about it going

1158
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:48,800
all wrong because you've safeguarded it, so recognizing we need

1159
01:11:49,199 --> 01:11:53,560
anxiety to propel us towards a solution, but it can

1160
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:56,720
be used to solve smaller problems, to turn off the

1161
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:58,680
intensity of it, even if you can't turn it off

1162
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:02,319
all the way, all and nothing thinking doesn't help.

1163
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:06,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, which they also do in the end of this movie,

1164
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:08,399
which I liked as well, which is something that is

1165
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:12,560
also a intervention for anxiety, which is sitting with the

1166
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:15,680
dialectic that at the end of the movie. That's basically

1167
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:18,199
what they do, which your sense of self isn't just

1168
01:12:18,279 --> 01:12:22,640
I'm just a good person. It isn't all positive, fluffy rainbows. No,

1169
01:12:23,319 --> 01:12:27,720
it is like I make mistakes sometimes, and I'm a

1170
01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:32,520
good friend, and I can be selfish and I can

1171
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:36,560
be kind, And so I think that's also something that

1172
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:41,000
can help with that flexibility of thinking. Is challenging that

1173
01:12:41,079 --> 01:12:44,359
anxious idea that you either one or the other, or

1174
01:12:44,399 --> 01:12:47,279
even like the total reverse, which is that toxic positive

1175
01:12:47,399 --> 01:12:51,680
like joy on full tilt, which is I have to

1176
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:54,680
be very happy and very good and a YadA YadA.

1177
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:57,800
Is that the actual realistic thing that can be very

1178
01:12:57,880 --> 01:13:02,399
grounding is allowing yourself to be two things. I wants.

1179
01:13:03,399 --> 01:13:08,520
I can make mistakes and I can still have friends.

1180
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:12,760
I cannot make the hockey team, and I don't have

1181
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:15,039
to become a what I should call it, like an

1182
01:13:15,039 --> 01:13:17,920
anthno musicologist.

1183
01:13:17,079 --> 01:13:17,880
Speaker 2: Or whatever it is.

1184
01:13:18,199 --> 01:13:21,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I don't. I can get a bad grade

1185
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:24,640
on this exam and still have a good life one day.

1186
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:29,279
Like putting two opposing ideas together and sitting in that

1187
01:13:30,199 --> 01:13:31,720
can be a really helpful skill.

1188
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 2: And more importantly, building off that idea to connect to

1189
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:38,840
the ideas of the first movie that we need all

1190
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:43,479
sides of the emotional experience to assign context to it.

1191
01:13:44,479 --> 01:13:46,960
Not only can I be multiple things at the same time,

1192
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:50,840
but I don't have to reject the mistakes I've made.

1193
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,439
I need to embrace them because they help me learn

1194
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:59,640
what not to do. I learned I shouldn't be a

1195
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:04,439
to my friends and pursue only my own glory in

1196
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:08,239
a team sport, because then people won't like me. So

1197
01:14:08,319 --> 01:14:10,800
I need to check that. And I shouldn't get singularly

1198
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:13,680
focused and in my head because I might not perceive

1199
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:17,039
that I'm about to run over somebody and they're going

1200
01:14:17,079 --> 01:14:22,279
to get hurt because I wasn't paying attention enough, but

1201
01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:24,640
just because I made that mistake doesn't make me a

1202
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:28,239
bad person. But if I reject that experience, I won't

1203
01:14:28,239 --> 01:14:31,000
have learned the lesson from it. But my body's still

1204
01:14:31,039 --> 01:14:33,680
going to try to make me anyway. So I need

1205
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:37,359
to incorporate all the things, because even if I put

1206
01:14:37,399 --> 01:14:41,039
it in my vault, it's still there.

1207
01:14:41,199 --> 01:14:42,920
Speaker 3: One of the things that I wanted to bring up

1208
01:14:43,119 --> 01:14:49,279
is also using guided meditation. Meditation is really hard for

1209
01:14:49,359 --> 01:14:53,000
lots of different reasons, and when you have anxiety, it

1210
01:14:53,039 --> 01:14:56,319
can be really helpful to do a guided meditation because

1211
01:14:56,359 --> 01:15:00,359
you just have to focus on the voice. And I

1212
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:03,279
find that to also be something that can be helpful

1213
01:15:03,359 --> 01:15:06,840
either as something that you do every day. Most guided

1214
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:11,000
meditations you can find with inside timer or Calm or

1215
01:15:11,039 --> 01:15:14,399
any of that shit that's out there, you can find one.

1216
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:17,600
Most of them are between five and ten minutes, something

1217
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:19,720
that you can start your day off with, to start

1218
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:23,079
your day off with lowering your number as fast as possible.

1219
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:25,520
And so that's something that I recommend to people to

1220
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:27,560
not only try to do on a more regular basis

1221
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:31,079
when they're experiencing anxiety, but also after having a panic

1222
01:15:31,079 --> 01:15:34,600
attack to allow their body to kind of really calm down.

1223
01:15:35,239 --> 01:15:37,279
And give their body a little bit more space.

1224
01:15:38,199 --> 01:15:42,920
Speaker 2: I love that it's very similar to what hypnosis would

1225
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:47,520
do because it's guided. Meditation and hypnosis are parallel, yes,

1226
01:15:48,399 --> 01:15:54,600
almost synonymous processes. Getting yourself into a hypo aroused state

1227
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:59,680
where you can be calm beyond calm allows you to

1228
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:02,600
show off the parts you don't want to talk to

1229
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:07,000
right now and focus only on what you're choosing to

1230
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:09,880
and it's a beautiful way to reset. So I love

1231
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:10,399
that idea.

1232
01:16:11,159 --> 01:16:11,520
Speaker 6: Thanks.

1233
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:13,560
Speaker 1: Final thoughts. I think we all like this movie.

1234
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:15,159
Speaker 2: I loved it.

1235
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:20,119
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think we'll all watch it again. Yeah, absolutely absolutely.

1236
01:16:20,239 --> 01:16:21,920
I don't think I loved it as much as the

1237
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:26,159
first one. But also I don't. I don't know how you.

1238
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:28,359
Speaker 2: Catch lightning in a bottle twice like they did the

1239
01:16:28,399 --> 01:16:32,880
first one, But they came real close with this, and

1240
01:16:33,079 --> 01:16:37,560
it's just more complicated and less joyful than the first one.

1241
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:40,680
Is of like recognizing, oh, I have to embrace all

1242
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:42,640
my emotions this one's going on. Yeah, you have to

1243
01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:46,960
embrace all of the everything. Yeah, and that's just it's

1244
01:16:46,960 --> 01:16:47,760
a harder topic.

1245
01:16:49,039 --> 01:16:51,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll say this this movie and the first one,

1246
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:54,039
but this movie because it has more sophisticated ideas. I

1247
01:16:54,039 --> 01:16:57,159
guess I just want to say, like, as a therapist

1248
01:16:57,199 --> 01:16:59,680
watching it, it like passes with flying colors, like there's

1249
01:16:59,680 --> 01:17:02,800
nothing about this so absolutely it feels like they're misunderstanding

1250
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:06,960
a therapeutic idea or even making something more simple or

1251
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:09,600
more complicated than it is. Like this movie does a

1252
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:14,560
great job of representing everything very accurately and also very

1253
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:17,399
complicated ideas in a way that's very understandable, like the

1254
01:17:17,399 --> 01:17:20,920
whole belief system idea, how you're anxiety to comment and

1255
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:23,560
like rip it apart and put these other ideas in

1256
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:26,199
that form your belief system. It does a really great

1257
01:17:26,279 --> 01:17:29,920
job of taking big, big, big ideas and really making

1258
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:31,640
them visually understandable.

1259
01:17:32,439 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think, and what I would love to see

1260
01:17:37,479 --> 01:17:41,000
somebody do is kind of superimpose this and stand by

1261
01:17:41,079 --> 01:17:45,199
me m. And it kind of cut scenes together because

1262
01:17:45,239 --> 01:17:47,439
that was the one. We watched a lot of that

1263
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:53,239
in the adolescent class. I took it at Eastern watching

1264
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:58,159
kind of how all these different developmental stages start to

1265
01:17:58,279 --> 01:18:02,880
collide at this weird aide range that these kids are in,

1266
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:06,279
and then realizing how little you have in common with

1267
01:18:06,319 --> 01:18:10,039
the older kids, and that death is real and that

1268
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:13,520
stakes are real and other people will kill you to

1269
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:17,359
get what they want. Whereas that you know, the four

1270
01:18:17,439 --> 01:18:21,000
main boys age, they haven't quite got that idea together yet.

1271
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:25,000
But this movie kind of superimposing all of these ideas

1272
01:18:25,039 --> 01:18:28,199
onto that movie or any other movies that cover this phase.

1273
01:18:28,199 --> 01:18:31,680
I think it'll hold up the scenes of the internal

1274
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:36,079
stuff happening could be super imposed on any movie covering

1275
01:18:36,079 --> 01:18:38,600
this age group. And that's a beautiful thing. It means

1276
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:39,640
they perfected it.

1277
01:18:40,279 --> 01:18:43,359
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed this film. I thought it was really

1278
01:18:43,399 --> 01:18:48,079
beautifully done. I sometimes recommend it to clients based on

1279
01:18:48,159 --> 01:18:51,640
where they are with their anxiety, and sometimes I don't

1280
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:55,279
recommend it because it can be it might be a

1281
01:18:55,319 --> 01:18:58,920
little upsetting, because it is a very accurate portrayal of

1282
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:00,800
this kind of experience.

1283
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:04,520
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and also I mean, and I just want

1284
01:19:04,520 --> 01:19:06,119
to add it. I like the part in the movie

1285
01:19:06,159 --> 01:19:09,840
when she's like joy, she wants you joy, and it's

1286
01:19:09,880 --> 01:19:12,119
like calling joy into the console. That makes me tear up,

1287
01:19:12,319 --> 01:19:14,800
and I'm like, oh, look, she's just having fun, playing honky.

1288
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:18,439
It's like the importance of having fun, absolutely joy, no

1289
01:19:18,479 --> 01:19:24,800
matter what age. Yes, Well, on that note, we'll wrap

1290
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:29,760
up here. As always, you can find us on Instagram, TikTok,

1291
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:33,079
Facebook at popcorn Psychology. You can email us at popcorn

1292
01:19:33,079 --> 01:19:36,119
Psychology at gmail dot com. If you want to support us,

1293
01:19:36,600 --> 01:19:40,159
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01:19:40,560 --> 01:19:43,760
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01:19:43,800 --> 01:19:46,199
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1296
01:19:46,279 --> 01:19:49,079
better at that guy, as we promise, And if you

1297
01:19:49,119 --> 01:19:50,920
are a fifty dollars or more patron, you can pick

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01:19:51,039 --> 01:19:53,439
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1299
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:56,000
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1300
01:19:56,000 --> 01:20:00,560
wherever you listen to podcasts and everybody you know touching

1301
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:04,319
near emotions, y'all, they're all good for you. Good Bye,