1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:08,960 Speaker 1: Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol, 2 00:00:09,519 --> 00:00:10,119 an idea. 3 00:00:10,919 --> 00:00:13,439 Speaker 2: The population of atheists in this country is going. 4 00:00:13,279 --> 00:00:18,600 Speaker 1: Through the rule, rejecting faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. 5 00:00:18,839 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 3: If I tell the truth, it's because I tell the truth, 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:24,440 not because I put my hand on a book and 7 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:25,600 made a wish. 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,879 Speaker 1: And working together for a more rational world. 9 00:00:29,199 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 2: Take the risk of thinking feels so much more happiness. 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,840 Truth Beausian wisdom will come to you that way. 11 00:00:35,759 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking. This is the 12 00:00:43,679 --> 00:00:50,200 Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews. 13 00:00:56,479 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 3: You know, of all the things that I get to do, 14 00:00:58,359 --> 00:01:00,520 and I'm just so honored to be able to do it. 15 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:02,799 Speaker 2: I love hosting a show. 16 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,879 Speaker 3: I love being a part of this community, and I 17 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,959 love the interaction of speaking in front of a live audience. 18 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,159 And I don't know how many speaking events I did 19 00:01:11,159 --> 00:01:14,760 this year is a lot. And so you're about to 20 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,480 hear the recording of a speech that I gave October 21 00:01:18,519 --> 00:01:23,640 twenty seventh for the Rationalists of East Tennessee. And don't 22 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,799 we know that Tennessee needs all the rationalists it can get, actually, 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:28,599 the entire. 24 00:01:28,719 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 2: Actually the planet needs all the. 25 00:01:31,159 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 3: Rationalists that it can get and they were so gracious 26 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,120 to me, and so we all got together and they 27 00:01:37,159 --> 00:01:40,439 made a cake for me to welcome me, and it 28 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,280 had the Thinking Atheist logo on it. 29 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,519 Speaker 2: It was awesome. I posted it on social media saying, 30 00:01:46,599 --> 00:01:48,640 check this out. It was just such an honor. 31 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 3: And then we had a full house the next day 32 00:01:50,719 --> 00:01:54,719 and I talked about beliefs and the brain. The problem 33 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,239 is now, this is before the election, and everything's exploded 34 00:01:58,239 --> 00:02:00,480 and the whole planet's on fire and all that stuff, 35 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,319 and afterwards people are so hot, and I'm talking about 36 00:02:03,359 --> 00:02:08,319 myself too. I thought is it the wrong time? And 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,680 then I got really paranoid, and I said is it 38 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,800 the wrong message? And I couldn't decide. I was so 39 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,919 worked up. And you know, when you are highly charged, 40 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,319 this is the worst time to make decisions in most cases. Right, 41 00:02:22,719 --> 00:02:24,199 You got to take a breath, You've got to get 42 00:02:24,199 --> 00:02:27,800 some perspective. And so I sent the speech out a 43 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,599 private link to some people that I trust, and I said, look, 44 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,439 I hate to ask, but would you watch this and 45 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,639 tell me is it wrong or is it the wrong time? 46 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:42,240 And they said, You're not wrong. It is probably the 47 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,400 best time. To try to refocus ourselves, and so I 48 00:02:45,439 --> 00:02:49,919 went back. I added kind of an opening disclaimer, like 49 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,439 thirty seconds with a voiceover which was done by a 50 00:02:53,479 --> 00:02:57,120 third party, and then it goes into the speech itself. Okay, fine, 51 00:02:57,159 --> 00:02:59,560 I'm just going to release this sucker out into the 52 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,400 whil now because I don't want to take a break 53 00:03:02,439 --> 00:03:04,960 and split the speech. I'm going to play it uninterrupted. 54 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,360 Let me take my short break right now, and I'll 55 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:13,000 be back with The Brick Wall Brain coming up next. 56 00:03:13,199 --> 00:03:18,680 Are you a fan of true stories, interesting history, celebrity trivia, 57 00:03:18,719 --> 00:03:22,319 true crime, weird news? And you're going to love my 58 00:03:22,439 --> 00:03:27,520 podcast True Stories with Seth Andrews and I'm your host, 59 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:32,439 Seth Andrews, releasing five minute podcast vignettes three times a week. 60 00:03:32,759 --> 00:03:36,759 Search True Stories with Seth Andrews on Speaker and all 61 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,840 major podcast apps, or visit the website True Stories podcast 62 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:51,120 dot com. What you are about to hear is the 63 00:03:51,159 --> 00:03:54,280 audio of a speech I gave for the Rationalists of 64 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,840 East Tennessee on the twenty seventh of October in Knoxville, 65 00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:04,800 The Brick Wall Brain. Why aren't facts changing minds? 66 00:04:14,599 --> 00:04:18,519 Speaker 4: Given today's supercharged political and cultural climate, and with so 67 00:04:18,639 --> 00:04:23,279 much at stake. Some might consider the following message tone deaf, misguided, 68 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:28,240 or even untrue. Consideration feels like concession, especially when the 69 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,480 most dangerous beliefs threaten harm to the people and causes 70 00:04:31,519 --> 00:04:34,879 we care about. Yet we are all human. Many of 71 00:04:34,959 --> 00:04:37,920 us once held terrible beliefs from which we were rescued, 72 00:04:38,319 --> 00:04:40,560 And while there are some who may not be reachable, 73 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,439 there are many others who are. If the best ideas win, 74 00:04:44,879 --> 00:04:48,000 humanity wins, and if there was hope for you and me, 75 00:04:48,639 --> 00:04:50,399 there is hope for others as well. 76 00:04:57,079 --> 00:04:59,399 Speaker 3: What an honor it is to be a guest of 77 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,959 the Rational List of East Tennessee from Oklahoma. 78 00:05:03,079 --> 00:05:03,959 Speaker 2: Got off the plane. 79 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,639 Speaker 3: I was talking to my host and I said, so 80 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:12,560 is Tennessee a particularly religious area? And when they stopped laughing, 81 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,079 we had a conversation about it. But there may be 82 00:05:16,079 --> 00:05:18,439 believers in the room today, given the fact that we 83 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:23,600 are speaking on a campus area of the University of Tennessee. 84 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 2: It's okay. 85 00:05:24,399 --> 00:05:26,759 Speaker 3: You didn't need to wear garlic around your neck today. 86 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,040 I don't bite. It's all good today. We are all 87 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,120 human beings, and I think we're going to talk about 88 00:05:32,199 --> 00:05:36,920 something that all people can relate to. Okay, I want 89 00:05:36,959 --> 00:05:43,160 to start with the reiteration effect, thinking as power dot 90 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,680 Com has a lot of these, and I'm borrowing the slides. 91 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:50,360 We tend to believe information the more often we're exposed 92 00:05:50,399 --> 00:05:54,120 to it. And here's the example. Napoleon was short. Wow, 93 00:05:54,199 --> 00:05:59,439 that's interesting. Napoleon's shortness complex was massive. Did you know 94 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,560 Napoleon was short? You probably heard that a lot. But 95 00:06:03,439 --> 00:06:08,279 it's a myth. It is untrue that Napoleon was short. 96 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,040 We grew up believing that his lack of height was 97 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:13,720 a thing and had made him the mockery of all 98 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:14,360 of Europe. 99 00:06:14,439 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 2: That is a myth. 100 00:06:15,879 --> 00:06:19,879 Speaker 3: The inch, as measured in France at that time was 101 00:06:19,959 --> 00:06:25,360 slightly longer than the inch has measured in England. Historians 102 00:06:25,439 --> 00:06:29,240 say Napoleon was actually maybe an inch or two taller 103 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,160 than the average height of a Frenchman at that time, 104 00:06:32,199 --> 00:06:33,560 maybe five foot five. 105 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: We never checked. 106 00:06:34,639 --> 00:06:39,480 Speaker 3: We just assumed how many people here heard Napoleon was short. 107 00:06:39,879 --> 00:06:43,959 Speaker 2: Almost all of us. We have always been told that 108 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,360 dogs are colorblind. They are not. 109 00:06:49,519 --> 00:06:53,319 Speaker 3: Dogs have a much more compressed color range. Their eyes 110 00:06:53,399 --> 00:06:57,839 evolved for distance and motion for hunting, usually in the 111 00:06:57,879 --> 00:07:01,560 low light of dusk and dawn, so they didn't need 112 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,360 to locate bright things like fruits and flowers. This is 113 00:07:05,439 --> 00:07:11,519 my hunting dog. This is Linus. He's my son, little 114 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,959 seven pound Maulti Pooh rescue, obviously a descendant of the 115 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:17,639 wolf right. 116 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 2: And I was totally relieved when I learned that. 117 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:26,439 Speaker 3: He actually sees and experiences life in color. 118 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 2: Now on the right is what dogs see. 119 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 3: It's a dichromatic image here with the reds and the 120 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,240 greens compressed into a mix of blues and yellows. 121 00:07:37,279 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 2: But he sees color. Dogs see color. 122 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 3: And wow, you say I learned something new. I'm altering 123 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:50,199 how I think on this subject. It's actually a myth 124 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:52,480 that if you swallowed chewing gum, it stays in your 125 00:07:52,519 --> 00:07:53,759 stomach for seven years. 126 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:55,839 Speaker 2: Who is told that by. 127 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,319 Speaker 3: Their parents you smallow your gum, it's gonna stick for 128 00:07:59,439 --> 00:08:04,279 seven years. Nope, we assumed it. We believed it, but 129 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,680 we didn't check. If you swallow gum, it passes right 130 00:08:07,759 --> 00:08:11,279 through like any other food would. It's a myth that 131 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:18,480 coffee dehydrates you. Caffeine itself is a diuretic, increasing urine production, 132 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,839 but you're still drinking something that is like ninety nine 133 00:08:21,959 --> 00:08:30,000 percent water hydration and caffeination. I'm in, I'm in. I 134 00:08:30,279 --> 00:08:35,320 love coffee. This is knowledge I needed. Did you know 135 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:40,600 there's no conclusive proof that sugar causes hyperactivity in children? 136 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 2: Oh? 137 00:08:42,399 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 3: Oh uh oh, hang on, now some parents are potentially 138 00:08:49,759 --> 00:08:54,759 sitting forward in their chairs. Everybody knows sugar makes you hyper, 139 00:08:55,879 --> 00:08:57,320 the reiteration effect. 140 00:08:58,600 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 2: We've heard it our. 141 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,919 Speaker 3: Whole live Yes, but are we reacting differently here than 142 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,879 we did with the color blind dogs and the swallowed gum? 143 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 2: And yet this statement is true. 144 00:09:09,759 --> 00:09:13,480 Speaker 3: The hyperactivity connection was made in a single study done 145 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:18,639 fifty years ago involving one doctor who removed sugar from 146 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:23,759 a child's diet, but his result was never conclusively replicated. 147 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,960 Sugary foods are part of other environmental triggers that might 148 00:09:29,399 --> 00:09:32,679 be responsible, and while there are a few kids with 149 00:09:32,759 --> 00:09:38,600 some sensitivities to sweets, the sugar hyperactivity connection exists mostly 150 00:09:38,759 --> 00:09:43,720 here in our perception. Now we start to see the 151 00:09:43,799 --> 00:09:45,399 personal stories kick in. 152 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:46,759 Speaker 2: I don't care what you say. 153 00:09:46,799 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 3: If my kids eat candy, it's pandemonium. I've seen it, 154 00:09:52,159 --> 00:09:57,759 I've personally experienced. Right, it's true for me? Is the 155 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,720 name of this defense? Okay, fine, let's look at some 156 00:10:00,759 --> 00:10:04,720 other long held beliefs that probably won't get people all 157 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:10,159 hot and bothered like this one. Polygraph tests are bullshit. 158 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:18,000 They do not work. Polygraphs are debunked nineteenth century technology. 159 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,919 You cannot determine whether or not someone is telling the 160 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,039 truth are lying, just by measuring their blood pressure, they're breathing, 161 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,919 their pulse rate and perspiration. There's this guy, he's a 162 00:10:29,919 --> 00:10:34,440 former NSA National Security Administration analyst named Russell Tye. 163 00:10:34,519 --> 00:10:36,159 Speaker 2: And he came forward and he said. 164 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 3: Look, even if the needle was telling a real story, 165 00:10:40,039 --> 00:10:43,240 you can fool a polygraph. You can bite your tongue, 166 00:10:43,399 --> 00:10:47,120 you can think exciting thoughts, you can do mental arithmetics, 167 00:10:47,159 --> 00:10:49,960 some distraction, daydream alter breathing. 168 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:52,519 Speaker 2: You can even tighten your. 169 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 3: Rectum over and over and over again. And I know 170 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:01,480 you're doing I know you're all doing it right now. 171 00:11:02,919 --> 00:11:10,679 You're all like, what's that feel like? It's false that 172 00:11:10,759 --> 00:11:12,679 you should never wake a sleepwalker. 173 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,279 Speaker 2: I always heard this, whatever you do, don't wake them up. 174 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,759 Speaker 3: It's actually more likely that a sleep walker is going 175 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:20,480 to get injured if you let. 176 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,799 Speaker 2: Them pinball around in the middle of the night. 177 00:11:23,879 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 3: The American Academy of Sleep Medicine advises that you guide 178 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:28,840 them gently back to bed. 179 00:11:29,279 --> 00:11:30,799 Speaker 2: But if you have to wake them up. 180 00:11:30,879 --> 00:11:35,399 Speaker 3: We don't want sleep walkers walking stairs, leaving their houses, 181 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:40,320 even driving cars, and this has been documented sleepers. 182 00:11:39,799 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 2: Behind the wheel. Hell, yes, let's wake them up. Okay. 183 00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 3: It's a myth that if you touch a baby bird, 184 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,840 it will be rejected by its mother. 185 00:11:50,799 --> 00:11:55,039 Speaker 2: I always heard this one. Don't touch it, it'll be rejected. 186 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 3: Birds are bonded to their young. This whole idea links 187 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,440 to an old myth that birds can detect human scent. 188 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,080 Most birds actually have very limited smell functions. So while 189 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,799 we shouldn't be bothering the babies, if a chick falls 190 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,240 out of the nest, it is okay. In fact, it's 191 00:12:12,279 --> 00:12:14,440 a moral thing to do to pick it up, scoop 192 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,120 it up, and put it back. It's going to be okay. 193 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,080 Good information to have. When I learned, I adjusted my 194 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:29,080 thinking on it. MSG motto sodium glutamate is not bad 195 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:29,639 for you. 196 00:12:31,759 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 2: Uh oh, here we are again. 197 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 3: The reiteration effect the it's true for me affect personal experience. 198 00:12:41,759 --> 00:12:44,559 Speaker 2: But this claim is a myth. 199 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:51,879 Speaker 3: This flavor enhancer has been classified by the FDA as safe. 200 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:56,600 There's no discernible link between these supposed symptoms headache, flushing, 201 00:12:57,159 --> 00:13:01,519 tightness in the face, numbness, fluttering heart, chest pain, nausea, weakness. 202 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,480 Researchers have found no clear proof of a link between 203 00:13:05,759 --> 00:13:10,799 MSG and these symptoms. People have the same reaction when 204 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,000 given place ebos, So there's no reason to have the 205 00:13:15,039 --> 00:13:18,200 no MSG sign on the door of the Chinese restaurant 206 00:13:18,519 --> 00:13:21,559 unless you just want to try to alleviate people's fears. 207 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 2: But it's not a thing now. 208 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,799 Speaker 3: Given what I've just said, have the anti MSG people 209 00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:33,080 change their opinion. Hmmm, let's go deeper and find out. 210 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,039 MSG is not just in Chinese food. It's commonly added 211 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,679 to canned vegetables, catch up, mustard, salad, dressing. 212 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,879 Speaker 2: Deli meat, potato chips, soup. 213 00:13:44,759 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 3: We eat it all the time and don't even realize it. 214 00:13:48,759 --> 00:13:51,919 Glutamate is an amino acid. It's in almost all of 215 00:13:51,919 --> 00:13:57,200 our foods. Monosodium glutamate is an isolated and purified form 216 00:13:57,279 --> 00:14:01,159 of it, So glutamates are found naturally many cheeses, some 217 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:07,559 fruits and veggies, chicken, shrimp, chititaqi, mushrooms, broccoli, walnuts, cabbage. 218 00:14:08,519 --> 00:14:14,799 MSG increases saliva and that improves taste. It can be 219 00:14:14,879 --> 00:14:18,039 a bit salty, but it has about a third of 220 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:23,120 the amount of sodium in normal table salt. So unless 221 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,559 you have a specific and rare sensitivity, you would not 222 00:14:26,799 --> 00:14:31,000 feel any health effects with MSG until you had eaten 223 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,799 three grams or more on an empty stomach. That's about 224 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,559 six times as much MSG that is in most food, 225 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,080 and your symptoms would still be mild and they would 226 00:14:42,159 --> 00:14:48,799 quickly disappear. This is the scientific finding. Now, this is 227 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,679 where everyone in the room stands and applauds. Thank you, Seth, 228 00:14:52,919 --> 00:15:00,960 thank you for this scientific perspective. Oh stuf, right, let's 229 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,440 all get together. Let's pack the bus and get some 230 00:15:03,559 --> 00:15:07,679 chalmine together. That's what you're all saying, right, Is that 231 00:15:07,799 --> 00:15:10,159 the response I would get out there in the ether. 232 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,519 Probably not. They would say, look at what MSD has done. 233 00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 2: It was brain. I refuse to. 234 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 3: Put that in my body. Well, what's that about? Why 235 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:23,759 the pushback? There? 236 00:15:24,279 --> 00:15:29,559 Speaker 2: Even irritation? Oh you want to see irritation? Wat's this? 237 00:15:32,039 --> 00:15:39,679 Speaker 3: Detox Diets are a scam. Detox is not a medical 238 00:15:39,759 --> 00:15:45,080 term in the context of diet. The wellness industry stole 239 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,960 this term from legitimate addiction recovery programs to sell the 240 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,559 myth that you can eat and drink. 241 00:15:52,679 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: Toxins out of your body. 242 00:15:55,080 --> 00:16:00,159 Speaker 3: Interestingly, they never define what those toxins actually are. Are 243 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:06,519 we already have a detox machine the liver detox by 244 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,240 diet is a bogus claim. It is made by an unregulated, 245 00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:18,480 fifty billion dollar a year detox product industry. But wait, 246 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,559 that's something that the FDA and big food would want 247 00:16:23,639 --> 00:16:26,879 us to believe, right, it's all part of the conspiracy. 248 00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:30,639 I'm convinced detox diets work. I don't care what he says. Well, 249 00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:35,879 what's this about the trillion dollar wellness industry? Overall, trillion 250 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,799 dollars wellness industry has learned to manipulate us. They play 251 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:46,840 on fears about the pharmaceutical industry, about chemicals, Western medicine. 252 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:47,919 Speaker 2: Which is not a thing by the way. 253 00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:50,399 Speaker 3: You know, you go into China, you know what they're 254 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,639 practicing medicine as they just call it medicine and then 255 00:16:53,720 --> 00:17:00,240 sell the alternative, which is conveniently unregulated and unaccountable to 256 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:01,159 give results. 257 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:03,919 Speaker 2: Then there's the appeal to nature. 258 00:17:03,919 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 3: Anybody heard this one natural good, unnatural bad, artificial bad. 259 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:09,319 Speaker 2: And there's plenty of. 260 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 3: Dangerous things in nature that you don't want anything to 261 00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:16,319 do with right. And there are many things in nature 262 00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:20,599 that are dangerous that intervention, like chemical manipulation, has made 263 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,680 safer for us. Everything's made of chemicals. When somebody comes 264 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:25,920 up to me and they're like, well, I'm not going 265 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,240 to eat anything that's chemical, I'm. 266 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 2: Like, well, good luck with that. Everything's chemical. 267 00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:37,279 Speaker 3: And yet the appeal to nature fuels public distrust about 268 00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:42,400 everything from vaccines to gluten to GMOs. 269 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,039 Speaker 2: Which are safe by other way. 270 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 3: When emotions get involved, we're not engaging the rational mind 271 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,720 nearly as much. Marketers and manipulators know this. They have 272 00:17:53,880 --> 00:18:01,079 long understood this. Where knee jerky emotional primates. Here's a 273 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,599 hot button that definitely gets people worked up out there. 274 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:12,440 When I say mother Teresa was not a good person, right, 275 00:18:14,839 --> 00:18:19,279 didn't expect applause on this one. You think I'd get 276 00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:21,119 applause if I went out to the rest of the 277 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:27,000 university and said it. Do people say, interesting, seth, tell 278 00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:29,599 me what you know about mother Teresa so that I 279 00:18:29,599 --> 00:18:31,480 can assess and improve my perspective. 280 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 2: Now they do not do that. Instead, they look at 281 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,960 me and go, how dare you mother Teresa? 282 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:44,599 Speaker 3: This woman in our brains lovingly linked to notions of 283 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,000 purity and goodness? Why do people get so upset? And 284 00:18:49,039 --> 00:18:51,720 I follow up usually with this question. I say, name 285 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,839 three things about Mother Teresa that I have nothing to 286 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,640 do with, where she was born or the fact that 287 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,200 she was Catholic. Just give me three, or I might 288 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,480 boil it down to one. Give me one thing. 289 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 2: Nobody in a decade, nobody has. 290 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,799 Speaker 3: Been able to give me a specific piece of information 291 00:19:10,519 --> 00:19:14,599 about her life, who she was, or what she did. 292 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,559 If I mentioned that she preached poverty while living like 293 00:19:19,599 --> 00:19:23,160 a rock star, she thought suffering was a good thing, 294 00:19:23,279 --> 00:19:26,839 she found it facilities where sick people were handcuffed to 295 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,960 their beds and often treated by unqualified non doctors, or 296 00:19:32,039 --> 00:19:35,920 that her sainthood was a marketing ploy by the church. 297 00:19:37,839 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 2: Very few want to hear it. 298 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:45,799 Speaker 3: They love the idea of this charitable mother saint, and 299 00:19:45,839 --> 00:19:49,319 they defend the idea of her even though they have 300 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:54,359 no idea who she was. And since I'm hitting beloved believes, 301 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:59,319 I'll mention this one. The biblical Noah's Art story never happened. 302 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:05,039 All of biology, zoology, geology, incredible scholarship has debunked it. 303 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:10,279 The story refutes itself. Not only it didn't happen, but 304 00:20:10,319 --> 00:20:14,359 it couldn't happen. The similar Mesopotamian flood myth, the Epic 305 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,640 of Gilgamesh, predates Genesis. It has a bunch of the 306 00:20:17,759 --> 00:20:22,559 very same story elements. Flood myths were common throughout Sumerian 307 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:26,119 faith traditions. The whole scenario, a five hundred year old 308 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,599 guy builds a stadium sized boat out of trees and tars, 309 00:20:30,039 --> 00:20:34,559 and then antarctic penguins walk eight thousand miles to stand 310 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,480 next to camels in the middle Eastern desert, and they 311 00:20:37,519 --> 00:20:41,000 sit for a year next to giant pandas and anacondas, 312 00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:43,839 and nobody else on earth owned a boat, and the 313 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,279 mix of rain water and seawater mixes and somehow doesn't 314 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,000 kill all water based life, and they're thousands of onboard 315 00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:54,839 creatures and they're all shitting themselves every single day, And 316 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,079 somehow eight people shovel thousands of tons of waste out 317 00:20:59,079 --> 00:21:02,160 of a massive with one window, and they don't die 318 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:07,640 of methane poisoning. God gives a specific blueprint instructions for 319 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,519 the arc in the beginning of the story cubits. Here's 320 00:21:10,599 --> 00:21:15,240 exact cubits, and then he goes mute, forcing Noah to 321 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,519 send a bird to go out and do recon to 322 00:21:17,599 --> 00:21:21,079 try to find land. And then the arc has no sail, 323 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,799 no motor, or no rudder, So it wouldn't have made 324 00:21:23,799 --> 00:21:26,079 a hell a bit of difference because they couldn't have 325 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:27,440 steered it to land anyway. 326 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 2: There might have been fifty feet close by, and they 327 00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:30,599 just kept on going. 328 00:21:31,079 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 3: Eight people commit incest to repopulate the earth, creating up 329 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:39,039 to twenty thousand ethnic groups in four thousand years. The 330 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,519 entire story is a giant mountain of horseship. 331 00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 2: Okay, and I. 332 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 3: Say this to people who believe the Bible, and it's 333 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:47,880 the same thing. 334 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,519 Speaker 2: We're back here, how dare you? 335 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:57,079 Speaker 3: Because people take the Bible and its claims personally. An 336 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,000 attack on these stories is an attack on their faith. 337 00:22:00,079 --> 00:22:02,839 An attack on their faith is really like an attack 338 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:07,079 on a family member or themselves. And so the defenses begin. 339 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,359 Just a few the appeal to authority. God says that 340 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,400 I believe it the bandwagon fallacy. Billions of people agree 341 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,079 with me. It's the most popular religion in the world. 342 00:22:17,319 --> 00:22:21,079 Are all of those people wrong? There's the sunk cost fallacy. 343 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,839 I believed in my whole life. I'm not going to 344 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,480 change now, or you're wicked and stupid. 345 00:22:27,519 --> 00:22:29,039 Speaker 2: You're going to hell. God will judge you. 346 00:22:29,079 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 3: I'm sure none of you have heard that when challenging 347 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,440 the Bible, right, we're not talking about an opinion. We're 348 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:40,119 not talking about data. We're talking about an identity. Here's one, 349 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,480 and I know you've heard this one in the state 350 00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:47,039 of Tennessee. America is the greatest country in the world. 351 00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:54,279 So you and I check the statistics and wait a minute. 352 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,519 According to surveys done by US News and World Report 353 00:22:58,599 --> 00:23:03,799 and Statista and and other polling and research organizations, Switzerland 354 00:23:04,319 --> 00:23:10,119 overall is the best country than Canada, Sweden, Australia. The 355 00:23:10,319 --> 00:23:16,519 United States loses in almost every metric the economy, quality 356 00:23:16,559 --> 00:23:23,240 of life, lifespan, happiness, crime rate, health care, education, cultural influence. 357 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:30,000 Statista says that we rank first in two categories military 358 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:39,920 spending national pride, meaning we're number one at saying we're 359 00:23:40,319 --> 00:23:47,039 number one. If I wish to challenge this to a 360 00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:50,759 weird number one American, would they budge in their opinion? 361 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,279 Speaker 2: In their perception, the. 362 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,519 Speaker 3: COVID vaccine is safe and has saved millions of lives. 363 00:23:58,599 --> 00:24:01,440 Now you're taking the journey with me, but We can 364 00:24:01,519 --> 00:24:04,680 all think of people who might hear that and walk 365 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,799 out of the room, yet imagine they're here, so I 366 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,960 thoughtfully present data. The Center for Disease Control reports, No, 367 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,240 you can't get COVID from the vaccine. There is no 368 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,559 live virus. The vaccines do not shed their components. The 369 00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:25,440 COVID vaccine won't alter your DNAs. 370 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 2: Anyone heard this one. We're going to become mutants, right? No, no, no. 371 00:24:29,519 --> 00:24:33,519 Speaker 3: It never enters the cell nucleus where DNA lives. It 372 00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:37,319 won't make you infertile. If you are a pregnant woman, 373 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,720 you can and should get vaccinated. Not only will the 374 00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:47,599 COVID vaccine not microchip you, it contains no metals that 375 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:52,359 can even produce an electromagnetic feel. Bill Gates hasn't tagged 376 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:54,640 you so he can watch you sit on the toilet 377 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:55,519 and get your mail. 378 00:24:55,720 --> 00:25:00,319 Speaker 2: Right now, we're seeing the reiteration of effect. 379 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 3: We're seeing opinions that get tattooed onto personal identities. We're 380 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:11,000 seeing a lot of identity based biases kicking in group think. 381 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:15,279 In group thinking, COVID has become highly political. It's a 382 00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:18,240 statement about us who we are, what our values are. 383 00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:22,160 So accepting or Rejecting the reality of COVID has become 384 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:28,839 a statement about our identity. Resistors and disbelievers have often 385 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,839 been primed to see an evil scheme or an attack 386 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,000 on their freedom. So even if they thought COVID was 387 00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:40,039 a danger, and many don't, but some do. More important 388 00:25:40,599 --> 00:25:43,799 than the virus that could harm you is pushing. 389 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 2: Back on these mandates. Nobody's going to tell me what 390 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:49,240 to do. 391 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 3: For many of the US means rugged individualism, collectivist values, 392 00:25:56,759 --> 00:26:00,000 working as a society. Uh oh, that sounds an odd 393 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:06,279 off a lot like socialism. Government mandates are tyranny, and 394 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,720 my identity as a free American says never. Now, I'm 395 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,039 going to show you kind of an intense photo from 396 00:26:12,079 --> 00:26:16,799 decades ago. Smallpox killed over half a billion people in 397 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,519 the twentieth century alone. It was one of the most 398 00:26:19,559 --> 00:26:26,759 contagious and deadliest diseases known to humankind. English scientist doctor 399 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,920 Edward Jenner proved that a mild dose of cowpox infection 400 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:38,319 would inoculate people against smallpox. Within five years, the vaccine 401 00:26:38,319 --> 00:26:44,440 had gone global, but anti vaxers freaked and this was 402 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:50,200 around eighteen hundred, and they declared war on doctor Jenner. 403 00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:54,799 Here's an eighteen O three anti vax depiction of doctor Jenner. 404 00:26:55,079 --> 00:26:58,599 He's inoculating people, and look at the people they start 405 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:06,119 turning into caw. Here's another fear mongering editorial cartoon. It 406 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:14,279 as children being fed to a diseased cow like monster. Fear, misinformation, disinformation, 407 00:27:14,559 --> 00:27:20,720 conspiracy theories, science denial, public endangerment. Does this sound familiar 408 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,640 to anybody else? And this was a nineteenth century movement, 409 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,960 a resistance culture, an identity. 410 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 2: Here's another one. 411 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 3: New seat belt requirements were introduced in the mid nineteen fifties, 412 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:37,759 and they. 413 00:27:37,599 --> 00:27:43,759 Speaker 2: Met rabid opposition. Free America said belts, Nah, can't force me. 414 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,519 I'm not going to do that. You're not going to 415 00:27:46,599 --> 00:27:49,000 restrain me. And then they came. 416 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 3: Up with all these excuses beyond that, well, seat belts 417 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,759 are cut in half. They're actually more dangerous than being 418 00:27:54,759 --> 00:27:58,480 in a car rack that kind of stuff. Identity beliefs 419 00:27:58,519 --> 00:28:03,000 often lead into false equivalence claims. I'm resisting the man. 420 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,960 Mandates are like slavery. No one will enslave me, and 421 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:13,440 against the persecutors, I, the righteous rebel, will cry freedom. 422 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,079 What a rush to be the hero in your own 423 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,559 story and to join tribes of fellow heroes. And the 424 00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:26,960 more you're reposed, the more you're contradicted, well, the more 425 00:28:27,039 --> 00:28:32,279 right and righteous you are. How do you feel about 426 00:28:32,279 --> 00:28:38,079 this guy? I used to buy into the boy genius 427 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,799 narrative a few years ago I did today. I call 428 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,319 him phony Stark. I mean, Tesla's are great. I think 429 00:28:46,359 --> 00:28:51,319 Tesla's are great cars. SpaceX has done some cool stuff. 430 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 2: But he is not a good man. 431 00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:57,839 Speaker 3: I'm amused by this sticker that some people are putting 432 00:28:57,839 --> 00:29:00,680 on their Teslas. So I bought this before we knew 433 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:07,079 Elon was crazy. But all right, let's talk beyond the 434 00:29:07,119 --> 00:29:11,359 Tesla the EV. All right, the EV, and I dig 435 00:29:12,039 --> 00:29:15,359 the electric car in general. There's the Hyundai Ionic and 436 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,279 the Ford Mochi and the Chevy Voult. 437 00:29:17,319 --> 00:29:19,759 Speaker 2: I mean they're cool. I don't kid myself. 438 00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:22,519 Speaker 3: The driving and EV turns you into this guy, you know, 439 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,880 mister environmentalist. You know, we know the grid still charges 440 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,039 the cars. We're still figuring out lithium mining and lifespan 441 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,319 to the batteries recycling disposal. 442 00:29:32,359 --> 00:29:34,519 Speaker 2: Well, you know whatever. But I mean, when it. 443 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 3: Comes to the gas versus electric conversation, I've noticed something different, 444 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,480 at least where I live in the oil and gas 445 00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:46,319 state of Oklahoma. There's a lot of Oklahomas who apparently 446 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,799 equate car and truck exhaust with freedom. 447 00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:55,079 Speaker 2: That is not just what they think, it's who they are. 448 00:29:56,799 --> 00:29:59,359 Speaker 3: So let's say I meet this guy out on you know, 449 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,720 the street, and driving is f one point fifteen, and 450 00:30:01,759 --> 00:30:04,559 he's got eagle decals and a lift kit or whatever, 451 00:30:04,599 --> 00:30:08,319 and so I start talking about electric cars. And it's 452 00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:12,000 fascinating to see many people talk about gas cars like 453 00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:15,720 they are so linked to the United States, an American invention. 454 00:30:16,359 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 2: I don't think so. 455 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,559 Speaker 3: The German inventor Carl Benz first patented the gas vehicle 456 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:27,920 back in eighteen eighty five, hashtag Germany, not the United States. 457 00:30:28,279 --> 00:30:32,000 But tell me that these gas power trucks don't just 458 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,559 look like America America. 459 00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 2: How about this one, Oh yeah, America? Or this one. 460 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 3: We got the flag, we got the Constitution, the Eagle, red, white, 461 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,920 and blue, Donald Trump, America. 462 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,599 Speaker 2: This is an identity. 463 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:01,839 Speaker 3: So many will just make this connection electric car equals environmentalism. 464 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:07,279 That's Biden Harris, emissions laws, government oppression, tyranny. They make 465 00:31:07,319 --> 00:31:11,039 these connections in their brain a slippery slope. Notice anything 466 00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:14,400 about those freedom convoys. Anybody see a Tesla in there. 467 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:18,400 I don't see a Tesla in there. Now, here's the 468 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,039 scenario that some people are going to call a stereotype. 469 00:31:21,079 --> 00:31:24,240 And I may be guilty of stereotyping, but just go 470 00:31:24,319 --> 00:31:24,599 with me. 471 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 2: I'm in Oklahoma. 472 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,839 Speaker 3: I'm just going to toss this out based on my observations. 473 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,480 Once I see a guy with this emblem on his truck, 474 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,319 I'll bet I can tell you maybe twenty other things 475 00:31:36,839 --> 00:31:41,359 about the guide driving in. Would this person ever buy 476 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:46,519 an ev political party Republican? 477 00:31:47,839 --> 00:31:51,279 Speaker 2: Ethnicity? Probably white, religion? 478 00:31:53,240 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 3: Favorite news channel Fox News? Did they get the vaccine Vegan? 479 00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:03,799 Speaker 2: Oh? Hell no? 480 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:13,319 Speaker 3: Do they accept the science of climate chain, reproductive choice? 481 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:15,359 Speaker 2: Gun owner? 482 00:32:17,559 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 3: Probably a pistol in the glovebox right or under the seat. 483 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:26,160 Immigrants at the border, he's like, I'll get my gun. 484 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:33,759 Probably nationalized healthcare. That's socialism. And again, these are guesses, 485 00:32:33,799 --> 00:32:36,960 maybe stereotypes, but it's also I think totally legitimate to 486 00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:41,319 observe and address trends and tendencies. I'd like to say 487 00:32:41,359 --> 00:32:43,839 I've got enough Oklahoma equity to be able to make 488 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:48,240 this observation that that guy will likely be a white 489 00:32:48,559 --> 00:32:52,799 Christian nation, free market oil and gas, gun toting love 490 00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:57,160 it or leave it. American conservative weird about LGBT people 491 00:32:58,119 --> 00:33:02,559 distrustful of foreigners, would love to bomb the whole Middle East, 492 00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:06,799 just nuke them, turn it to glass. Probably owns an 493 00:33:06,839 --> 00:33:12,440 equal number of firearms and Bibles. Here's a guy who 494 00:33:12,519 --> 00:33:16,119 fits that profile, as posted on the patriot Takes page. 495 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,519 Christian white, straight, unwoke, unvaxed, gun owner, meat eat or 496 00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:19,960 in mail. 497 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 2: How else can I piss you off? Today? 498 00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 3: Now, what we're seeing are not just his opinions, they're 499 00:33:28,359 --> 00:33:31,240 his identity, They're who he is. He might as well 500 00:33:31,279 --> 00:33:34,440 display this symbol somewhere else in his life. And this 501 00:33:34,519 --> 00:33:37,559 symbol is actually partially at least a response to another 502 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,960 symbol of another identity group. I'm talking about Black Lives Matter. 503 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,359 Now this is not an equivalence argument. As I speak 504 00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:48,759 about tribes and identities, I think one definitely has more 505 00:33:48,839 --> 00:33:53,319 merit than another here. But BLM is an example of 506 00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:59,319 an identity belief that we feel very strongly about. Condemning 507 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,680 racism and abuse within law enforcement and the culture, and 508 00:34:03,799 --> 00:34:08,280 the very true claim is that black people face greater 509 00:34:08,519 --> 00:34:13,840 danger against police brutality. The system is broken, it needs 510 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,440 to be fixed. The bad cops need to be fired 511 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:22,079 and or prosecuted, and education and procedures must evolve. We 512 00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:28,880 identify as agents of advocacy and equality. In the wake 513 00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:35,280 of BLM, the thin blue line symbol became a tribal response. No, no, 514 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,519 you are vilifying police. The men and women in blue 515 00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:44,320 need our support. Back the Blue, Blue Lives Matter. Interesting 516 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,840 this symbol has also become the darling of many white 517 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,639 supremacist groups. The Back the Blue Identity group makes this 518 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,920 blanket statement that whatever happens, we stand behind cops because 519 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:02,239 whatever they do, they are unfair, vilified, and they enforce 520 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:07,239 law and order. In that light, Black Lives Matter protests 521 00:35:07,559 --> 00:35:11,840 against police racism are actually a betrayal of all the 522 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,920 men and women in uniform. This is binary thinking. It's 523 00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:22,119 tribal thinking. We are just, they are unjust. How much listening, 524 00:35:22,639 --> 00:35:27,320 conversation and mind changing takes place between those two groups, 525 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,239 the blue line in the Black Lives Matter groups? How 526 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,960 often do they thoughtfully exchange information for better understanding so 527 00:35:37,039 --> 00:35:40,920 that the best ideas might win the day. No, No, 528 00:35:41,159 --> 00:35:44,400 everybody's in defense mode. Everybody's on lockdown. This is what 529 00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:48,400 makes flat earthers so maddening to talk to. Has anybody 530 00:35:48,599 --> 00:35:52,679 gotten into a conversation with a flat earther. I'm at 531 00:35:52,679 --> 00:35:56,239 a flat earther at a Free Thought event in Chicago. 532 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 2: My brain melted flat Earth. So we do what we do. 533 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:09,039 Speaker 3: We present the science, the data, and it doesn't work 534 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:13,320 because flat earth is not just an opinion, it's an identity, 535 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:20,320 a culture, a family. And the more attack they feel, 536 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,599 the more they dig in and shut down. With the 537 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:28,199 fallacy known as the Galileo gambit, somebody says, you know what, 538 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:33,000 you can go ahead and mock me. Right, this revolutionary 539 00:36:33,039 --> 00:36:36,800 person had an idea that was called outrageous and people 540 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:37,920 called him crazy. 541 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 2: They call me crazy. 542 00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 3: I'm like that revolutionary person. We've heard this with Galileo 543 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,960 and with Einstein, right, they called Einstein nuts, and yet 544 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,119 look how smart he was. 545 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 2: I'm like Einstein. 546 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 3: There's an amazing documentary on Netflix came out in twenty eighteen. 547 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,280 It's called Behind the Curve, and it's about flat earthers 548 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,800 that came up with an experiment and to prove that 549 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:03,119 the Earth was flat, and they used a laser and 550 00:37:03,119 --> 00:37:05,480 they had a point A and a point B. They 551 00:37:05,519 --> 00:37:07,159 come over here and they've got the laser, and then 552 00:37:07,159 --> 00:37:10,639 they've got a receiving point over here, and they said, 553 00:37:10,679 --> 00:37:12,239 all right, this is going to prove it once and 554 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,360 for all. And you know what happened with the laser. 555 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,119 It was way over the target area because, wait for it, 556 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,480 the Earth is not flat. 557 00:37:22,639 --> 00:37:23,920 Speaker 2: Now. 558 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 3: Did these flat earthers have an epiphany and change their minds. No, 559 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,480 they said, we're going to go back and we're going 560 00:37:34,559 --> 00:37:38,760 to make another experiment that gives us the results we want. 561 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:45,599 This is the twenty eighteen Flat Earth International Conference at 562 00:37:45,679 --> 00:37:50,079 Crown Place Airport Convention Center in Denver. And the MC 563 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,400 told the crowd, I'm not ashamed of ridicule. I'm not 564 00:37:54,519 --> 00:37:57,679 ashamed of mockery. I'm not ashamed of insults. And the 565 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,840 crowd cheered this hero, this martyr for the cause, who 566 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:06,119 had put himself in the crosshairs of public scrutiny and ridicule. 567 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,639 Interesting what he said, I am not ashamed. This ring 568 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:16,239 familiar to anybody else. Nine eleven truthers say it was 569 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,639 all an inside job. I believe it with all my hearts, 570 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:21,320 and I am not ashamed. 571 00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:26,679 Speaker 2: Aliens live among us. I believe it with all my heart, 572 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:28,760 and I am not ashamed. 573 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 3: Kem trails our government, mind controlled drugs. I believe it 574 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:39,039 with all my heart that I am not ashamed there's 575 00:38:39,079 --> 00:38:44,719 a secret cabal of Satanist Democrat blood drinkers trafficking our 576 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,159 children out of the basements of pizza parlors. I believe 577 00:38:49,199 --> 00:38:52,480 it with all of my heart, and I am not ashamed. 578 00:38:54,599 --> 00:38:58,599 We are a Christian nation founded by Christians, four Christians. 579 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,599 I believe it with all my heart, and I am 580 00:39:02,639 --> 00:39:09,960 not ashamed. Christianity the planet's biggest in group, the biggest tribe, 581 00:39:10,599 --> 00:39:13,639 quoting proudly and defiantly from scripture. 582 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,760 Speaker 2: For I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. 583 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 3: I believe, we believe we are unwavering, solid, faithful. So 584 00:39:23,559 --> 00:39:28,440 you and I engage with specific data points. We talk 585 00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:33,880 about the Bible, its failures, We talk about the founding fathers, 586 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:37,360 the nature of the Constitution. We get into the Pledge, 587 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,159 we get into all of these other things. Do the 588 00:39:40,199 --> 00:39:43,039 believers open up to these new ideas like they might 589 00:39:43,119 --> 00:39:47,280 have with dog seeing color and coffee hydrating you? 590 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:49,719 Speaker 2: No, No, don't bet on it. 591 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,079 Speaker 3: I used to think I could walk into a room 592 00:39:52,119 --> 00:39:56,480 with facts, make my case, change somebody's mind, and we 593 00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,960 would all lock arms and we would just frolic off 594 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:00,320 into reason built together. 595 00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:01,159 Speaker 2: There would be. 596 00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 3: Light and confetti from the sky, and there would be 597 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,480 Enia music and it would just be. 598 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 2: A moment, right, no, no, no no. 599 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,599 Speaker 3: Instead, they'd either get in my face, go blank, or leave. 600 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:15,559 Speaker 2: And I couldn't figure it out. 601 00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:19,119 Speaker 3: Why am I not only not getting traction, but why 602 00:40:19,199 --> 00:40:24,239 is everybody leaving even more fortified in their opinion. The 603 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,239 amigdala is the part of our brain that processes emotion. 604 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,800 This is the center for physical threat response, fight, flight, 605 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:36,559 or freeze. The same part of our brain fires up 606 00:40:36,679 --> 00:40:42,360 at an ideological threat as does with a physical threat. 607 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,159 This is why people lock down, shut down, or blow up. 608 00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:50,840 So you and I get in somebody's face and we say, 609 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:58,000 on this highly charged issue, you're wrong. People feel pushed around, attacked, 610 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,239 and then all of a sudden they say I'm out 611 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:04,760 of here or screw you. 612 00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:07,719 Speaker 2: Right when we were. 613 00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:11,039 Speaker 3: Hoping they would say, I'm interested. Let's exchange perspectives and 614 00:41:11,079 --> 00:41:14,679 figure this out. With a perceived or a real attack, 615 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,280 people will retreat to a place where they feel safe, 616 00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,480 usually with those who have their backs. So the anti 617 00:41:21,559 --> 00:41:25,480 vaxer retreats to the anti vax Facebook group. The flat 618 00:41:25,519 --> 00:41:29,119 Earther goes back to the flat Earth conferences, clubs and tribes. 619 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:34,639 Christians retreat to Christianity churches, Christian social groups. It's because 620 00:41:34,679 --> 00:41:39,119 they're that they feel safe, They're validated, protected, not attacked. 621 00:41:39,119 --> 00:41:40,800 And I really feel like if you and I are 622 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,599 going to make a dent and the one on ones 623 00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:45,559 out there, we have to become, in a. 624 00:41:45,519 --> 00:41:47,880 Speaker 2: Way a safe space. 625 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,159 Speaker 3: A lot of people push back against this, they argue 626 00:41:52,159 --> 00:41:55,920 with me about it, and maybe they're right, maybe I'm wrong. 627 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,880 Roasting bad ideas and bad people people has. 628 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:04,159 Speaker 2: Its place on the macro stage. 629 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 3: I'm talking here about one on ones. You and I 630 00:42:08,519 --> 00:42:11,239 are face to face, eye to eye, voice to voice, right, 631 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,159 making people feel safe on the larger stage. Honestly, mockery 632 00:42:15,559 --> 00:42:18,800 helped me to see that maybe some cows need to 633 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,719 be roasted, right, some sacred cows definitely need to go 634 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,639 on the grill. And it was me watching in the shadows, 635 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,480 not feeling personally attacked, but I was watching it happen. 636 00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 2: I saw Christopher Hitchen's debate Holy s Nikes. 637 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 3: That guy went hard at religion, but he wasn't coming 638 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,440 after me as a human being, right, So I will 639 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,519 go after and sometimes mock and ridicule ideas because quite frankly, 640 00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:43,440 I think it's sometimes healthy to do so. But I'm 641 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,559 not pointing at an individual who might be a good 642 00:42:46,599 --> 00:42:49,039 person with a bad idea right. 643 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,760 Speaker 2: There in my zip code. 644 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:54,719 Speaker 3: How often have we responded to pointing and mocking. 645 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 2: And shouting in the one on ones? 646 00:42:56,079 --> 00:43:00,239 Speaker 3: And what did that produce besides a feeling of superiority 647 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:06,000 As this humiliated person doubles down runs off, we might 648 00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:08,599 have been talking about their belief, but we were declaring 649 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,119 war on their identity and we didn't even know it. 650 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 2: Good luck changing minds that way. 651 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:20,119 Speaker 3: Maybe there's no interest in changing minds because they are them. 652 00:43:20,519 --> 00:43:21,760 Speaker 2: They can't be reasoned with. 653 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:27,280 Speaker 3: They're too stupid or too evil to even warrant meaningful engagement. 654 00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:28,440 Speaker 2: Just crush them. 655 00:43:29,079 --> 00:43:33,280 Speaker 3: Doctor Arthur Brooks is a social scientist and a contributor. 656 00:43:32,679 --> 00:43:33,800 Speaker 2: To The New York Times. 657 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,760 Speaker 3: He wrote an article called Our Culture of Contempt, which 658 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,280 addresses a study published in twenty fourteen by the National 659 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:47,840 Academy of Sciences dealing with motive attribution as symmetry. Each 660 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:52,559 side is convinced it is driven by benevolence. The other 661 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,000 side is evil motivated by hatred, and is therefore an 662 00:43:57,119 --> 00:44:03,719 enemy with whom one cannot negotiation or compromise. He'll never 663 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:10,360 talk him out of it, so crush them utterly. Battling 664 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,840 bad people has another function. It signals to our in group, 665 00:44:15,199 --> 00:44:17,599 our tribe, that we're worthy to be in the group. 666 00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:21,559 So we're always running for office, right, We'll go on 667 00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:24,119 Facebook and make a claim or do something and get 668 00:44:24,199 --> 00:44:26,440 involved in a battle or just whatever, and we look 669 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:29,239 around and say, ah, everybody, you see, see how worthy 670 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,119 I am? I qualified to remain in the club, maybe 671 00:44:32,159 --> 00:44:35,639 even for promotion. And let's say I'm in that in 672 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,960 group or tribe, and I'm starting to question in doubt, 673 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:40,920 and maybe i was wrong about something, and I'm not 674 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,280 sure this jibes, and hang on, I've got new information. 675 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:44,800 Speaker 2: I'm going to evolve my position. 676 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:50,840 Speaker 3: We risk consequences, We betray our group, and we risk 677 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,960 social death, shunned, vilified, even threatened by the people that 678 00:44:56,199 --> 00:45:00,000 used to have our backs. Our tribe turns on it. 679 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,280 David McGraney has written about this. He wrote a book 680 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:09,199 called How Minds Change about those who had an epiphany 681 00:45:09,199 --> 00:45:12,320 and then were punished by the people who used to 682 00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:16,119 have their backs. They changed their minds the in group 683 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,679 then said you're an out grouper, kicked them out and 684 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,639 destroyed them, or committed themselves to destroy them. They cram 685 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:29,519 them into a box, crushed the box. How often are 686 00:45:29,679 --> 00:45:35,480 identity beliefs reductive because many things can be true at 687 00:45:35,519 --> 00:45:42,000 the same time. It's a crazy, complex world. It can 688 00:45:42,159 --> 00:45:45,559 be true that racism, corruption, and the abuse of power 689 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:52,480 is a cancer in law enforcements, but a great great 690 00:45:52,519 --> 00:45:56,800 many of the over seven hundred thousand American police officers 691 00:45:57,519 --> 00:46:01,599 are men and women doing their best instead of difficult, dangerous, 692 00:46:01,639 --> 00:46:06,719 and usually thankless job. This complicated issue doesn't fit in 693 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:12,079 a binary model. It doesn't fit in the box. This 694 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,199 is a gun culture. For many, guns are a statement 695 00:46:16,599 --> 00:46:21,360 of identity. Personally, I hate. 696 00:46:21,559 --> 00:46:24,920 Speaker 2: The National Rifle Association. I hate the NRA. 697 00:46:25,519 --> 00:46:29,039 Speaker 3: I think it's insane civilians can buy AR fifteens. But 698 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,960 I own a couple of handguns I shoot for targets, 699 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,159 guns that I am licensed and trained with a keeping 700 00:46:37,199 --> 00:46:40,159 a gun safe. I would give them up if there 701 00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:43,320 was a federal mandate. They're not part of my identity. 702 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,519 I just have them. That's a nuanced take. So which 703 00:46:46,639 --> 00:46:47,719 box do I fit in? 704 00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,800 Speaker 2: A my pro gun or anti gun. Wait a minute, 705 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:50,599 how's that work. 706 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,920 Speaker 3: I go hard at fundamentalist claims and dogmas in religion. 707 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,719 I fight against Christian nationalism's war on democracy, but I'll 708 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:04,840 fight for somebody's right to be privately and personally religious. 709 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,480 And my religious friends are wonderful people. They're wonderful some 710 00:47:10,519 --> 00:47:13,039 of the best people I know fit that in a box. 711 00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,760 I am married to someone who is not an atheist. 712 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,360 Natalie calls herself spiritual. I think she used to call 713 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,960 herself Christian, but now I think she's more of like 714 00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:27,400 I think there's something out there, and she talks about maybe, 715 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:29,880 you know, our grandfather's looking down in on her and 716 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,679 that kind of thing. She spiritual is a good word 717 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:34,079 for her. 718 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:35,960 Speaker 2: She is not an atheist. 719 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,400 Speaker 3: She is the best person I know and my best 720 00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:41,800 friend in this world. 721 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,360 Speaker 2: Which box does she fit in? 722 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:49,039 Speaker 3: I think bands on the hijab are a bad idea. 723 00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,840 I think banning the hijab is bad, But I also 724 00:47:53,039 --> 00:47:55,800 know how the veil has been used to oppress and 725 00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:00,400 enslave and dehumanize women, So I don't think it'd be 726 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,719 celebrated like as part of these diversity marketing campaigns. I 727 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,119 don't think the hijob should be used in that way 728 00:48:07,159 --> 00:48:11,800 because it validates the oppressors. So in the all nothing world, 729 00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,800 would I be pro hijob or anti hijob. 730 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:17,880 Speaker 2: I watch some. 731 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,920 Speaker 3: Atheist and religious people talk about each other. You're an idiot, No, 732 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,400 you're an idiot. You're a sheep, No, you're a sheep. 733 00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,880 We reduce, we label, we dehumanize because it's easy to 734 00:48:30,039 --> 00:48:33,440 want to see the destruction of the enemy the other. 735 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,960 And again here at the end, I'm not saying that 736 00:48:38,039 --> 00:48:42,559 opinions and beliefs and values, communities, groups, group ideas are 737 00:48:42,559 --> 00:48:45,840 all equivalent, not remotely. I'm not saying we shouldn't take 738 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:50,000 our values personally. I add, like you have deep feelings, 739 00:48:50,039 --> 00:48:52,880 I have deep convictions that are part of who I 740 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,039 am when it comes to changing minds out there. After 741 00:48:57,119 --> 00:48:59,639 fifteen years in activism, I can just tell you this. 742 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,119 Speaker 2: That is not working. 743 00:49:04,599 --> 00:49:09,599 Speaker 3: Screaming in the streets, screaming on the internet. God an 744 00:49:09,639 --> 00:49:14,079 outrage is the currency, the oxygen of the internet. That 745 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,639 is not how we fix the world. How many good 746 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:24,559 people have had bad ideas, how many were rescued from 747 00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:28,119 bad ideas? And if you and I are interested in 748 00:49:28,199 --> 00:49:31,840 not just cursing the darkness, but maybe spreading a little light. 749 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,280 We have to ask ourselves do we treat people like 750 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:43,440 people with personalities, families, dreams, lives? Are they a good 751 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,159 person with bad ideas? Have we ever been a good 752 00:49:46,159 --> 00:49:49,559 person with bad ideas? Did that make us less than human? 753 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,800 Am I arguing to win? Or am I trying to 754 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,519 change a mind or expand a conversation so that the 755 00:49:58,559 --> 00:49:59,480 best ideas? 756 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:02,119 Speaker 2: When? Oh, we know how good it feels to win? 757 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,920 I love this meme. This is how I feel when 758 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:05,800 I went an argument. 759 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:11,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a rush. It's a rush to win. What 760 00:50:11,559 --> 00:50:15,159 language am I using? Am I turning the temperature up 761 00:50:15,559 --> 00:50:19,880 or down? Your opinion is idiotic? Is not going to 762 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,400 produce the result you probably want? 763 00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:23,000 Speaker 2: Okay? 764 00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,679 Speaker 3: Am I sending but not receiving? Maybe they're not the 765 00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:34,239 only brick wall. Intellectual humility is so critical and that 766 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:39,280 includes sincere listening and how much of what's happening here 767 00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:46,039 is about them defending an identity and me defending mine. 768 00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,920 I like what research professor and author Brene Brown said. 769 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,920 She said, people are hard to hate close up move in. 770 00:50:55,679 --> 00:51:00,679 There are genuinely horrible people out there. I have to 771 00:51:00,679 --> 00:51:03,920 put these caveats out because someone's going to quote mind 772 00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,400 me and say Seth says we should sing Kumbaya with Nazis. 773 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,239 I'm just like Jesus, that's not what I'm saying. Okay, 774 00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,880 Most often people are just people. And I'll offer this 775 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,400 little observation. If your first reaction to these comments I've 776 00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,400 made today is forget it. They're all rotten, stupid bigots, unreachable, 777 00:51:23,679 --> 00:51:27,400 they're all lost causes. I'm gonna blast and block without hesitation. 778 00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,719 There's a fair chance you might be feeling a little 779 00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:34,360 more than your thinking. Sometimes it's understandable, especially if we've 780 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:39,920 been wounded. You want an example of somebody who's just unreachable, 781 00:51:41,119 --> 00:51:46,840 Christian nationalist, anti gay bigot Fox News watching Goden Gun's 782 00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:52,079 evangelical conservative tethered to dangerous mythology and really bad ideas. 783 00:51:52,159 --> 00:51:55,360 Speaker 2: You want to see that. You're talking about me. 784 00:51:57,679 --> 00:52:06,920 Speaker 3: Thirty years ago, a naive, indoctrinated younger me. I was 785 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,519 both a perpetrator of bad ideas, but I was also 786 00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:12,079 a victim of bad ideas. 787 00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:15,599 Speaker 2: I was good. I was a good person. I was 788 00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:17,360 trying my best to be a good person. I was 789 00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,000 a human being. I had humanity. 790 00:52:19,039 --> 00:52:23,320 Speaker 3: I just needed a chance to discover the larger, better world. 791 00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:29,400 Sometimes we draw the hard line and take the hard stand. Okay, 792 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,639 sometimes we got to do battle, but we're often bad 793 00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:38,119 at choosing which battles to engage in. And many identity 794 00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:40,440 believers can be reached. 795 00:52:40,159 --> 00:52:42,440 Speaker 2: If we slow down. 796 00:52:43,199 --> 00:52:47,920 Speaker 3: We first appeal to their humanity and also to our own. 797 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:54,280 A great resource for civil conversations is street epistemology. This 798 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,920 is a method for engaging people using the Socratic method. 799 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:03,480 You ask questions, lots of questions in goodwill. You're not ambushing, 800 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,239 you're not setting up, you're listening sincerely. 801 00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:10,559 Speaker 2: You're engaging in good faith. Man, this world needs more 802 00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:10,840 of that. 803 00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:15,119 Speaker 3: There's a whole YouTube channel where the street epistemologists like 804 00:53:15,159 --> 00:53:18,480 Anthony Magdabosco and many others go out and they just 805 00:53:18,639 --> 00:53:21,239 engage people every day on the street and they'll just 806 00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:22,920 start talking to them on camera. 807 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,280 Speaker 2: Would you speak with me for a moment while I roll? 808 00:53:25,519 --> 00:53:28,119 Is that? Okay? And it's amazing. Believers come in. 809 00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,000 Speaker 3: Nobody's throwing stuff at each other, nobody's shouting or insulting. 810 00:53:32,119 --> 00:53:36,519 It's good faith, goodwill, but it's meaningful conversation. And some 811 00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:38,800 people have come back later and say, because of the 812 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,000 seed that was planted there, I started to challenge what 813 00:53:42,079 --> 00:53:43,239 I was thinking and I. 814 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:48,199 Speaker 2: Escaped from my dogmatic belief. It happens, and they've got stories. 815 00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:54,760 Speaker 3: I've already mentioned this wonderful website Thinking is power dot com. 816 00:53:55,519 --> 00:53:58,800 The site helps us to understand how beliefs are formed. 817 00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,840 It explains how even smart people can get fooled and 818 00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:07,039 provides great resources for being better thinkers. 819 00:54:07,079 --> 00:54:09,760 Speaker 2: I cannot recommend this site enough. 820 00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,039 Speaker 3: You know, on my own education, I learned that this 821 00:54:14,119 --> 00:54:17,280 little guy Linus is able to see the world in color. 822 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:20,760 Speaker 2: I'm going to try to do the same. 823 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:25,320 Speaker 3: I'm not going to surrender my values, but I am 824 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:29,599 going to adopt a little more dog philosophy in my 825 00:54:29,679 --> 00:54:32,679 own approach out there as an activist in a human being, 826 00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,800 I'm going to bark less and wag more, you know, 827 00:54:39,519 --> 00:54:42,239 no matter how frustrated I get. And it's an exercise 828 00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,400 and it's imperfect, and I blow it all the time, 829 00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,400 and I have to go back and reset, and it's 830 00:54:46,519 --> 00:54:50,599 just a daily, hourly, minute by minute challenge. I don't 831 00:54:50,599 --> 00:54:52,719 always know which battle to pick. I don't always know 832 00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:54,679 when to go hard and when to soften up. I 833 00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:56,960 don't always know who's reachable and who's not. 834 00:54:57,039 --> 00:55:00,039 Speaker 2: I have no idea, so I don't have the ant. 835 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:03,280 Speaker 3: I'm just saying in my own life, I want to 836 00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:05,639 bark less and more. 837 00:55:06,119 --> 00:55:06,559 Speaker 2: I want to. 838 00:55:06,559 --> 00:55:10,800 Speaker 3: Try to de escalate, rehumanize, soften my approach. 839 00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,199 Speaker 2: Let's give it a shot. 840 00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:16,039 Speaker 3: Let's not guarantee failure right off the bat. Let's see 841 00:55:16,159 --> 00:55:21,000 humans as humans because we are humans trying to become 842 00:55:21,159 --> 00:55:27,079 better humans. I think that is something worth identifying with. 843 00:55:28,159 --> 00:55:30,719 Thanks for having me out today. It's been an honor. 844 00:55:30,599 --> 00:55:31,239 Speaker 2: Speaking to. 845 00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:42,400 Speaker 1: Follow The Thinking Atheist on Facebook and Twitter. For a 846 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:46,039 complete archive of podcasts and videos, products like mugs and 847 00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:49,760 t shirts featuring the Thinking Atheist logo, links to atheist 848 00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,480 pages and resources, and details on upcoming free thought events 849 00:55:53,480 --> 00:56:00,000 and conventions. Log onto our website, The Thinkingatheist dot com.