WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Warning the following podcast materials mature audience listener.

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<v Speaker 2>This question is what's up?

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Wicked and Grim.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Ben and of course i'm Nicole, and that's our

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<v Speaker 2>new intro.

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<v Speaker 1>We're changing it up, changing it up, bo right into it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeap, new year, new things. We were a little bored

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<v Speaker 2>of what we were doing before.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it felt repetitive and it just felt stale.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't like repetitive. Ye yeah, yeah, so stale bread.

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<v Speaker 1>Were getting rid of the stale bread.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we're not certain we're sticking with this still, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>have some.

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<v Speaker 1>Other ideas, but yeah, for now, we can change it

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<v Speaker 1>up whenever.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which we're trying this on. Like you know, when

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<v Speaker 2>you're like trying on a pair of shoes and you

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like only stick it on one foot. You

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<v Speaker 2>kind of walk around like the stool for a second.

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<v Speaker 2>You're deciding, well, maybe I'll put it on the other foot.

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<v Speaker 2>I do that, some people do. I see people do

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<v Speaker 2>it all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>I put both shoes on. You're both shoes fully in it,

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<v Speaker 1>really fully in.

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<v Speaker 2>It, but you do walk around the store.

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<v Speaker 1>Still, yeah, maybe if each foot can be slightly different size.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, see, I I've seen people go both the first,

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<v Speaker 2>and I've seen people go single foot. I'm a single

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<v Speaker 2>foot person because I will put one foot on and

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<v Speaker 2>then I'll stand up and like try it. I won't

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<v Speaker 2>really walk around, but I'll try it. If I like

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<v Speaker 2>it with one foot, then.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll put on your second second, No, I have to

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<v Speaker 1>put I put both on for.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, really for sure?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, Okay, that's funny. I didn't know that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what do you guys do? Are you a one

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<v Speaker 2>foot shoe person or a two foot shoe tryer on

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<v Speaker 2>or person?

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<v Speaker 1>What a random conversation. I love it. I love it.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Wigan Ingram The Truth podcast, where we talk

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<v Speaker 2>about shoes and cracked beer when we.

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<v Speaker 1>Start, and how our backs are usually a bit sore.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, usually, like that's all the time. That's just every day,

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<v Speaker 2>all day, NonStop.

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<v Speaker 1>Mines particularly sore because we got a ton of snow,

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<v Speaker 1>so we were like shoveling a ton yesterday. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was pulling huskies out of snow banks today.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and for reference, I think we got between eight

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<v Speaker 2>and ten inches of snow.

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<v Speaker 1>Yesterday, yeah, like just under a foot really, yeah, and.

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<v Speaker 2>Then the week before that we got about the same

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<v Speaker 2>amount so within a week we got almost two feet

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<v Speaker 2>of snow.

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<v Speaker 1>So I feel like I'm slightly buried in.

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<v Speaker 2>Slightly we're buried. But it looks pretty.

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<v Speaker 1>It does, yeah, very much, so it does. And and

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<v Speaker 1>and we have some new patreons, patrons, patreons, I would

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<v Speaker 1>say patreons, but patrons.

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<v Speaker 2>We mess it last time.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I think, I know we're just pretending we did.

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<v Speaker 1>So if we thank you twice, that means you're just extras.

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<v Speaker 2>You're just twice as awesome. Here we go, so our

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<v Speaker 2>patrons we have to think, are you going to say it?

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<v Speaker 2>Are you gonna attempt or I don't even have it out,

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<v Speaker 2>so I've got to can pass it to you. Do

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<v Speaker 2>you want to do it?

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<v Speaker 1>Now? You're the king at it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm the king of it, the king of what just

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<v Speaker 2>between you and me, it's either the king or the queen.

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<v Speaker 1>Go for it.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, where did we stop last time?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, I just told you it was Anna.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I'm gonna just say Hannah again, Hannah Courtail,

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<v Speaker 2>thank you for being a patron. I'm pretty sure we

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<v Speaker 2>already thanked you, but we're thanking you again.

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<v Speaker 1>Because you just the third time.

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<v Speaker 2>We think that probably. Uh, we got fabulous t T

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<v Speaker 2>that's a fabulous name. Also we got Riba Barnes, Shannon Brown,

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<v Speaker 2>Anna Peproski, Paproski I think okay, Anna Paproski, and Christine Scott.

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<v Speaker 2>You guys are all absolutely incredible. Thank you for signing

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<v Speaker 2>up a patron. We are coming out with a Patreon

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<v Speaker 2>exclusive episode coming up amazing very soon, and it's it's

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<v Speaker 2>a it's a doozy. Is it a do It's a doozy.

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<v Speaker 2>It's your month, right, it's my month, motherfucker. Oh and

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<v Speaker 2>it's a doozy, so cool, get locked and loaded for that.

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<v Speaker 2>And we are gonna be kind of buckling down here

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<v Speaker 2>very very soon and getting things a little more organized

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<v Speaker 2>with the podcast because shit's been all over for months

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<v Speaker 2>for us.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, well, I feel like it's slowing down slightly.

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<v Speaker 1>There's like, well, every time I think that, though, something

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<v Speaker 1>else happens. But nope, we're getting caught up. Life is

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<v Speaker 1>going smooth. We're all good, yes.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's gonna be worthwhile for all you guys signed

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<v Speaker 2>up for Patreon. Thank you very much. And of course,

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<v Speaker 2>if you don't know, exclusive episodes every month those all

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<v Speaker 2>access Patreons, and we're going to be implementing ads very soon,

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<v Speaker 2>so you can avoid those ads over on Patreon if

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<v Speaker 2>you sign up.

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<v Speaker 1>And we do other posts too, like I did what

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<v Speaker 1>the hint for this one was on there? Actually didn't hint.

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<v Speaker 1>I just told them I was too kind to them,

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, instead of doing that on Instagram, I didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>They're the stems, so yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there's a lot of behind the scenes sort of stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a video on there from Christmas of jacko. Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>Christmas reading.

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<v Speaker 1>That was so fun. I love that. Actually, there's a lot.

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<v Speaker 2>Of cool stuff over there. Head on over sign up.

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<v Speaker 2>If not, it's totally cool. You can listen here. You're

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<v Speaker 2>still awesome.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, but holy moly, holy.

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<v Speaker 2>A big old pot of macaroni.

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<v Speaker 1>The case today, Like I just HiT's wild. It is wild,

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<v Speaker 1>Like I can't make up this shit. Like it's nuts,

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<v Speaker 1>just nuts. I'm just preparing everyone.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just nuts. It's a big old bag of nuts.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, nuts, It's a sack of nuts.

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<v Speaker 2>Get ready for today's episode. Represent to you a sack

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<v Speaker 2>of nuts.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. So it's the case of Dennis Nilsen, and I

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<v Speaker 1>don't I feel like quite a few people know him,

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<v Speaker 1>but then a lot of people don't. I don't feel

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<v Speaker 1>like he's super He's not like a super popular true

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<v Speaker 1>crime case, but he should be because it's crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>I know this case. I don't know very well, but

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<v Speaker 2>I know the basics of this case.

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<v Speaker 1>Wild.

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<v Speaker 2>It's nuts, Okay. It's a big old beg of.

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<v Speaker 1>Nuts, a beg old saka nuts.

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<v Speaker 2>Dude, was it a sack or I thought it was

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<v Speaker 2>a bag?

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<v Speaker 1>Who knows? It's one of them. It's just it's just

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<v Speaker 1>one of those.

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<v Speaker 2>It's bananas. Shit is bananas. It's beat Okay, Sorry, I

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<v Speaker 2>got like my add is just on fire.

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<v Speaker 1>You're like really outgoing, and I feel like I'm kind

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<v Speaker 1>of the opposite. So this is going to go well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, Okay, So Dennis the Dead Air Dennis was

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<v Speaker 1>born on November twenty third, nineteen forty five, in fraser Borough, Scotland.

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<v Speaker 1>Going over to Scotland, oh, I was like, did I

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<v Speaker 1>already's pronounce something wrong or do something wrong? The way

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<v Speaker 1>you looked at me to Scotland it looked so beautiful.

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<v Speaker 1>So he was the second child, born of three children.

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<v Speaker 1>Dennis's mother, Betty, was a religious Scottish woman, and his father, Lof,

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<v Speaker 1>was a former Norwegian soldier. They married in nineteen forty two,

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<v Speaker 1>but their marriage was not all sunshine and roses. Dennis's

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<v Speaker 1>father was an alcoholic with very little interest in the family.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh cool, which.

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<v Speaker 1>Not great, and they would actually get a divorce in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen forty eight, with Dennis's father basically completely abandoning the family.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, deadbeat dad style.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like he had no interest.

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<v Speaker 2>At first. I was like ohl Off, that's a dope name,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's like doing cool shit. And now I'm just

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<v Speaker 2>like ol Off. Yea douche.

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<v Speaker 1>I knows he sucks. So Dennis's grandparents on his mother's side,

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<v Speaker 1>especially his grandfather Andrew, played a huge role in Dennis's life.

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<v Speaker 1>They were quite supportive of the divorce as they never

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<v Speaker 1>actually had approved of Dennis's father, so they knew they

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<v Speaker 1>knew something was up with that dude. Dennis would have

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<v Speaker 1>fond memories of going on long walks with his grandfather

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<v Speaker 1>as he carried him on his shoulders and shared stories

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<v Speaker 1>with him as his time at sea. Andrew was a

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<v Speaker 1>fisherman and when he was off at sea, Dennis would

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<v Speaker 1>say his life would be empty until his grandfather returned home.

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<v Speaker 1>Once again.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's that's pretty fucking like adorable right there. I

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<v Speaker 2>know that's heart melted.

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<v Speaker 1>He just loves and his grandfather shared the same love,

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<v Speaker 1>like they were like two peas.

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<v Speaker 2>And like that's that's what you would expect, like a

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<v Speaker 2>silhouette of like a grandpa and the sun, like walking

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<v Speaker 2>on a beach in a photo in a basic white

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<v Speaker 2>bitches houses his live left low above it come from?

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<v Speaker 2>That's like what every every like?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh the quote you mean? Oh okay? I thought I

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<v Speaker 1>was picturing some some basic bees house in the background

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<v Speaker 1>with that on their nose.

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<v Speaker 2>Like it's a picture frame that someone picked up from like.

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<v Speaker 1>From Winners or what's Michaels.

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<v Speaker 2>What I'm thinking that? What's that one that you really like?

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<v Speaker 2>That Barnes Place or something urban barn, urban barn, Barnes

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<v Speaker 2>and Noble or something like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, pottery barn, target, tar fucking tucking target. Okay. We

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<v Speaker 1>had a target in Canada, more than one, a few,

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<v Speaker 1>quite a few for quite a while in Canada actually

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<v Speaker 1>a year, and then they all just close and I

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<v Speaker 1>was heart broken.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you know why they closed?

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<v Speaker 1>Because didn't they bash us or something? Or they they

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<v Speaker 1>made prices higher?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, because they they came over. Sorry we're going

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<v Speaker 2>off track here for a moment. When they came to Canada,

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<v Speaker 2>they opened a ship ton of stores.

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<v Speaker 1>With the Vengeance.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah. And then when they are coming in, it

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<v Speaker 2>was questioning, like a complete interview. They're like, oh, so

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<v Speaker 2>you're like, you're going to drop your prices for like

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<v Speaker 2>to a Canadian currency, and like the CEO was like, no,

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<v Speaker 2>Canadians pay more, why would we do that? So then

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<v Speaker 2>people just boy.

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<v Speaker 1>Caught the store. Like it was never busy in there,

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<v Speaker 1>and they always had so much stock, which is another

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<v Speaker 1>reason I loved it. But they screwed up. Yeah, but

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<v Speaker 1>oh well, okay, so yeah, we have that picture perfect

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<v Speaker 1>of Dennis and his grandfather, and this is even more

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<v Speaker 1>picture perfect. Dennis described him as his great hero and protector. Wow, Like, oh, however,

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<v Speaker 1>it's always a fucking however.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, here we go.

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<v Speaker 1>This would come to an end in nineteen fifty one

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<v Speaker 1>when his grandfather's health would decline, and on October thirty,

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<v Speaker 1>first Halloween, he was found drifting the North Sea dead

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<v Speaker 1>from a heart attack at the age of sixty two.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh shit, Dennis was only six. Okay, but the only

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<v Speaker 1>thing that I do love about that because I feel

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<v Speaker 1>like it's kind of peaceful. He died like probably doing

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<v Speaker 1>something he loved, like drifting at sea. I mean, it

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<v Speaker 1>could have been horrific and he might have needed help,

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<v Speaker 1>but I don't know. I feel like, when you die.

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<v Speaker 2>Was he on a boat or just like face down

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<v Speaker 2>in the water.

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<v Speaker 1>No, he was fishing, like he was doing his job,

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<v Speaker 1>like he's been a fisherman.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, but he was on a boat, not in the water.

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<v Speaker 1>He was on a boat okay. Oh yeah, if he

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<v Speaker 1>just found just a floating now, well, that that's what.

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<v Speaker 2>My picture was. He was just like face down in

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<v Speaker 2>the water.

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<v Speaker 1>No, he was like on his boat.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, okay, gotcha.

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<v Speaker 1>Just drifting. So I feel like he just died doing

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<v Speaker 1>probably what he loved.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's is where I'm going. That's a lot better

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<v Speaker 2>than what I imagined in my head. Good lord, I

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<v Speaker 2>am a host of a true crime podcast, so my

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<v Speaker 2>imagination went it really did.

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<v Speaker 1>A memory Dennis would later describe as one of his

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<v Speaker 1>most vivid childhood memories was his weeping mother when she

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<v Speaker 1>asked whether he wanted to see his grandfather. He of

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<v Speaker 1>course did, but at six, maybe not fully grasping what

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<v Speaker 1>death was Yeah. He was taken into the room where

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<v Speaker 1>his grandfather lay in an open coffin. As Dennis Glate gazed, glazed,

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<v Speaker 1>gazed at the body, his mother told him his grandfather

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<v Speaker 1>was sleeping and said he had gone to a better place.

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<v Speaker 1>One report saying at that time, Dennis wondered, if his

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<v Speaker 1>grandfather wasn't a better place, why wouldn't he have taken

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<v Speaker 1>him with him?

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, Like, oh my god, that is both like insanely

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<v Speaker 2>pure and insanely ominous.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I don't think he was just a six year

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<v Speaker 1>old boy, Like, if Grandpa's going to a better place,

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<v Speaker 1>why am I not there?

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<v Speaker 2>Like, I know that is why. It's insanely pure. But

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<v Speaker 2>it's almost like spelling out for him in the later years.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like almost very ominous for what's to come. Like yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>like it's almost like Batman. His parents die and it's

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<v Speaker 2>like he comes back with the vengeance or Batman could

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<v Speaker 2>have gone fucking dark in the depressive way, same sort

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<v Speaker 2>of shit.

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<v Speaker 1>Totally, Yeah, absolutely So the years that fall followed his

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<v Speaker 1>grandfather's death, Dennis would become more quiet and withdrawn. He

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<v Speaker 1>rarely participated in family activities and avoided the family's attempt

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<v Speaker 1>to give him any affection, though he would be jealous

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<v Speaker 1>at the amount of effect attention his mother and grandmother

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<v Speaker 1>would give his siblings. That's kind of sad. He did

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<v Speaker 1>have the closest where He had at the closest relationship

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<v Speaker 1>with his younger sister, who he would often talk to

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<v Speaker 1>or play games with. In nineteen fifty four or nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>fifty five, he had an incident at the beach. He

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<v Speaker 1>was probably there. He would spend time at the beach,

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<v Speaker 1>often remembering the time with his grandfather as they would

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<v Speaker 1>go on long walks. Right, But this time he became

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<v Speaker 1>submerged under the water, panicking as he was almost being

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<v Speaker 1>dragged out to sea, but he recalled that his grandfather

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<v Speaker 1>was about to arrive and pull him out before experience

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<v Speaker 1>a sense of tranquility. His life was, however, saved by

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<v Speaker 1>another youth who dragged him ashore.

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<v Speaker 2>Why do I get the sense that he's just gonna

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<v Speaker 2>be pissed that his life was saved.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think he was. No. Oh, okay, no, okay, no,

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<v Speaker 1>that was just I just threw that in there because

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<v Speaker 1>it just He actually ended up writing a book, so

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<v Speaker 1>there was quite a bit of details about his life

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00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:10.679
<v Speaker 1>leading up to what he does, and I felt like,

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00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:13.279
<v Speaker 1>you don't always have that, So I'm doing quite a

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00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:15.080
<v Speaker 1>bit of lead up here because you really get.

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<v Speaker 2>To understand a lot more he is.

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00:14:17.799 --> 00:14:21.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So shortly after Dennis is near Miss, the family

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00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:25.320
<v Speaker 1>would move out of Dennis's grandparents' home and into a

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00:14:25.360 --> 00:14:29.679
<v Speaker 1>home of their own. His mother also later remarrying, with

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00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:34.320
<v Speaker 1>the family moving to Stricken in nineteen fifty five and

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00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:38.919
<v Speaker 1>adding four more children to the family. As Dennis would

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00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:45.120
<v Speaker 1>begin puberty, he would start questioning his sexuality, believing that

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00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:49.840
<v Speaker 1>he was gay. This initially confused and shamed him, and

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00:14:49.879 --> 00:14:52.639
<v Speaker 1>he kept this a secret from his family and hit

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00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:55.480
<v Speaker 1>the few friends that he did have. Because you see

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<v Speaker 1>homosexuality among men, I'm assuming it's both genders. But I

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00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:03.840
<v Speaker 1>what I was looking at the article just sat among

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00:15:03.879 --> 00:15:08.399
<v Speaker 1>men was actually illegal in Scotland until nineteen eighty.

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00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Well it's still illegal around the.

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00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And I'm just like, gosh, I just find that

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00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:16.200
<v Speaker 1>so shocking.

305
00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:19.759
<v Speaker 2>But oh, and it's so shocking that people have had

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00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:22.080
<v Speaker 2>to have deal dealt with that sort of stuff in

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00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:24.919
<v Speaker 2>their life. It's like hiding who they are, which is scary.

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00:15:25.480 --> 00:15:28.399
<v Speaker 2>But thankfully we're actually getting to a point where it's

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00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:31.159
<v Speaker 2>less and less, so that's at least good. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's that's terrible that he had to go through that.

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00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:35.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, hiding your true self I don't think is a

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00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:37.279
<v Speaker 1>good It doesn't come out with a good outcome.

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<v Speaker 2>No, but there are some people out there that I

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00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:41.360
<v Speaker 2>wish would hide their true self because it's like cock

315
00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:45.360
<v Speaker 2>shut up. Yes, I know a few of those people.

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00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:49.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh. At one point, he realized many of

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00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:53.200
<v Speaker 1>the boys he was attracted to had similar facial features

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00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:58.320
<v Speaker 1>as his younger sister. On one occasion, he sexually fondled

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00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:02.639
<v Speaker 1>his sister, thinking that his attraction towards boys might be

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00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:05.000
<v Speaker 1>a manifestation of the care he felt for her.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I'm sorry, I'm just like lily grossed out right now.

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00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.440
<v Speaker 1>That's really gross. This also made him believe he might

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00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:17.440
<v Speaker 1>be bisexual. He would also go about fondling his older

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00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:21.399
<v Speaker 1>brother one night as his brother was sleeping, this resulting

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00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:24.720
<v Speaker 1>in his brother suspecting he was gay, causing him to

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00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:29.440
<v Speaker 1>bully Dennis. So basically he was confused with his sexuality

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00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:34.039
<v Speaker 1>and then experimenting on his siblings I suppose, and then

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00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:37.320
<v Speaker 1>also now getting bullied by his brother.

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00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Which is really fucking weird. I mean, I understand we

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00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:43.559
<v Speaker 2>all go through some weird shit.

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00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:45.399
<v Speaker 1>Oh my growing up as fucked.

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00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:50.519
<v Speaker 2>It's really fucked. But I mean, I don't know. That's

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00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:55.320
<v Speaker 2>just weird. Like we should all know, should I mean

334
00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.600
<v Speaker 2>should is maybe not, because it's all depending on how

335
00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:01.120
<v Speaker 2>you're taught and growing up. We all should know that,

336
00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:04.359
<v Speaker 2>like siblings is really fucking weird.

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00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:05.039
<v Speaker 1>Off limits.

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00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:09.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, family is off limits. Yeah, it's just not right.

339
00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:13.480
<v Speaker 2>But again that that depends on how you're raised. Really,

340
00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:16.039
<v Speaker 2>how are you to know better unless you're taught that.

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00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Maybe I guess I don't know. Let's move on. Let's

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00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:19.359
<v Speaker 1>move on.

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00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's it's a weird conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>So at the age of fourteen, Dennis needed an escape, obviously,

345
00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:30.279
<v Speaker 1>and he joined the Army Cadet Force, viewing the British

346
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:36.920
<v Speaker 1>Army as a potential avenue for escaping. His rule origins, Sorry,

347
00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:39.720
<v Speaker 1>I count why I pause that, I pause really oddly

348
00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:41.920
<v Speaker 1>because I think I missed something, but I didn't, so

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00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:42.720
<v Speaker 1>I just got going.

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<v Speaker 2>No, you're good. I think I don't see your notes.

351
00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:45.559
<v Speaker 1>But no, I'm good.

352
00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:46.359
<v Speaker 2>You're good.

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00:17:46.519 --> 00:17:50.319
<v Speaker 1>So in nineteen sixty one, Dennis would finish school briefly

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00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:54.839
<v Speaker 1>working in a cannery factory canning factory before deciding to

355
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<v Speaker 1>join the army, where he intended to train as a chef.

356
00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:03.079
<v Speaker 2>As a chef, that's an odd choice if you're going

357
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:04.920
<v Speaker 2>to like, I'm going to go to the army. It's

358
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:06.480
<v Speaker 2>not very often you say I'm going to go to

359
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<v Speaker 2>the army and be.

360
00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.880
<v Speaker 1>A chef and something that I haven't thrown in here actually,

361
00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:14.160
<v Speaker 1>which this could be a good place him training as

362
00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:21.079
<v Speaker 1>a chef and learning butcher skills may become sandy for him.

363
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:28.799
<v Speaker 1>So he passed the entrance examinations and received official notification

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00:18:28.920 --> 00:18:32.200
<v Speaker 1>he was to enlist for nine year service in September

365
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:37.079
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty one. With it in weeks, Dennis began to

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<v Speaker 1>excel in his army duties, loving the structure of military

367
00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:45.279
<v Speaker 1>life and the sense of belonging. Gotcha, So that's good

368
00:18:45.319 --> 00:18:48.480
<v Speaker 1>that he finally feels that, you know, later describing his

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00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:53.000
<v Speaker 1>three years of training in Aldershaw, England as the happiest

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<v Speaker 1>of his life.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's good.

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<v Speaker 1>While stationed at.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, holy shit, uh, forgive us for a moment we

374
00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:06.720
<v Speaker 2>just had, like Snowmageddon fucking just happened.

375
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<v Speaker 1>In the middle of our podcast that was nuts.

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00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:13.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, long story shorts. Uh. We we are parked in

377
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:18.880
<v Speaker 2>property where with our tiny home where there is a

378
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:22.160
<v Speaker 2>big storage shed right next to us, and snow came

379
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:25.559
<v Speaker 2>shooting off it and just like made thunderous noises right

380
00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:28.200
<v Speaker 2>beside us. So we were just like, whoa, what.

381
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:34.480
<v Speaker 1>The out of me? Actually reapply my fucking deodorant? Like,

382
00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:37.240
<v Speaker 1>I was like, what is happening here? Like, there's just

383
00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:39.880
<v Speaker 1>so un settling. God, there's something every day man in

384
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:40.559
<v Speaker 1>this tiny home.

385
00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:43.640
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know where the fuck we were? What

386
00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:44.640
<v Speaker 2>would you just say?

387
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's that's a good question, you know. Okay, we

388
00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:53.440
<v Speaker 1>were talking about how oh he was just basically like

389
00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:56.160
<v Speaker 1>liking his time in the military, right, gotcha, because it

390
00:19:56.200 --> 00:20:00.880
<v Speaker 1>gave him structure, sense of belonging, YadA, YadA, YadA. So,

391
00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:06.920
<v Speaker 1>while stationed at Aldershot, Dennis would have all the feelings

392
00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:11.119
<v Speaker 1>for his fellow colleagues, but like he did with his family,

393
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:16.799
<v Speaker 1>he kept his sexual orientation well hidden from them.

394
00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:19.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, okay, that's fair.

395
00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:23.240
<v Speaker 1>He never showered in the company of his fellow soldiers

396
00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:27.839
<v Speaker 1>for fear of developing an erection in that presence. Instead,

397
00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:31.839
<v Speaker 1>he would bathe alone in the bathroom. He also started

398
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:35.000
<v Speaker 1>relying on alcohol to help cope with the double life,

399
00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.839
<v Speaker 1>kind of like Mary talked about, he was living and

400
00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:43.119
<v Speaker 1>then loneliness he was feeling, so he liked. That's like

401
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:45.240
<v Speaker 1>so contradictory those two things, right, Like, I think he

402
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:48.240
<v Speaker 1>liked the military and he had friends and stuff there,

403
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:51.000
<v Speaker 1>but then he was also hiding his true self, which

404
00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:52.359
<v Speaker 1>was causing.

405
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Well, he was able to quietly and discreetly feed fantasies

406
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.519
<v Speaker 2>the sounds of it, and couldn't act upon those fantasies.

407
00:21:03.519 --> 00:21:07.559
<v Speaker 2>So there's happiness in being able to indulge himself. But

408
00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:09.359
<v Speaker 2>you know there's the shadow.

409
00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:12.119
<v Speaker 1>You wait, you hear what his fantasy actually is?

410
00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:14.599
<v Speaker 2>Did Oh, I'm sure, but I get it. I get it,

411
00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:16.000
<v Speaker 2>trust me, I'm aware.

412
00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:17.559
<v Speaker 1>But are you aware?

413
00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:21.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm aware aware, I'm very very well aware.

414
00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:25.319
<v Speaker 1>So in mid nineteen sixty four, Dennis would pass his

415
00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:29.200
<v Speaker 1>initial catering exam and was officially assigned to the first

416
00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:33.559
<v Speaker 1>Battalion of And this is where it gets interesting, because

417
00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:37.920
<v Speaker 1>I gotta pronounce some words here of the Royal Fuchilaires

418
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:41.880
<v Speaker 1>in Ausenburg, West Germany, where he served as a private

419
00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:46.720
<v Speaker 1>in this deployment. He described himself and his colleagues has

420
00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:52.519
<v Speaker 1>a hard working, boozy lot. So him basically like medicating

421
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:55.480
<v Speaker 1>himself with alcohol was I feel like also kind of

422
00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:57.440
<v Speaker 1>came with who he was with too, like they're all

423
00:21:57.480 --> 00:21:59.519
<v Speaker 1>just like getting together having fun, and he drank like

424
00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.119
<v Speaker 1>more than he ever would have before. Okay, I understand

425
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:05.640
<v Speaker 1>that his colleagues were calling Dennis drinking an excess in

426
00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:07.640
<v Speaker 1>order to ease his shinness, because he was also like

427
00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:09.359
<v Speaker 1>a little bit quiet too, right, so we wanted to

428
00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:12.839
<v Speaker 1>fit in. On one occasion, Dennis and a German Man

429
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:16.319
<v Speaker 1>drank themselves silly. He would awake the next morning on

430
00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:20.240
<v Speaker 1>the floor of the German the German use flat. No

431
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:26.039
<v Speaker 1>sexual activity occurred, but this incident would fuel Dennis's sexual fantasies,

432
00:22:26.559 --> 00:22:29.440
<v Speaker 1>and this is where the story starts going south.

433
00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Shit. Okay, I wonder why this particular incident because it

434
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:37.799
<v Speaker 2>just let his imagination a wild of what they could

435
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:38.400
<v Speaker 2>have done, what.

436
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.440
<v Speaker 1>He could have done, spent the night at a dude's house, basically,

437
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:43.000
<v Speaker 1>I guess, right, yeah.

438
00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so just kind of fuels that that fantasy, that

439
00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:47.559
<v Speaker 2>that thought process.

440
00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:52.839
<v Speaker 1>That exactly who knows what could have So Dennis's sexual

441
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:57.440
<v Speaker 1>fantasies involved his sexual partner being a young, slender male,

442
00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:04.039
<v Speaker 1>initially being completely passive, but as his fantasies evolved, he

443
00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:06.720
<v Speaker 1>was fascinated with the idea of his heart his partner

444
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:10.000
<v Speaker 1>being unconscious or even dead.

445
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:14.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay, wait, what are you.

446
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:16.240
<v Speaker 1>Not fully listening to that sentence? Oh?

447
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:19.079
<v Speaker 2>No, I was. But just like he didn't care.

448
00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:25.839
<v Speaker 1>He would fascinate about being sexually active with a dead person.

449
00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:31.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like it was not like, oh like I prefer living.

450
00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:33.839
<v Speaker 2>It's just like, oh like necrophilias.

451
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.079
<v Speaker 1>No, I think he prefers necrophilia.

452
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:36.559
<v Speaker 2>Shit.

453
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:41.519
<v Speaker 1>So on many occasions, Dennis would drink in excess, pretend

454
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:45.079
<v Speaker 1>he was in like drunk, in hopes that one of

455
00:23:45.119 --> 00:23:49.240
<v Speaker 1>his colleagues would take advantage of him and his supposedly

456
00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:53.640
<v Speaker 1>unconscious body, supposedly setting himself up. But that's all I

457
00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:55.440
<v Speaker 1>could find about that, so I don't know if anyone

458
00:23:55.519 --> 00:24:01.000
<v Speaker 1>actually did, but he wanted it, apparently, so following two

459
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:02.240
<v Speaker 1>years of service in.

460
00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:05.839
<v Speaker 2>Germany, I'm sorry, I just literally picture him being like, oh,

461
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:09.119
<v Speaker 2>dear me, I've had too many beer, like hand on

462
00:24:09.160 --> 00:24:12.480
<v Speaker 2>the forehead, fainting over the couch, ass in the air well.

463
00:24:12.519 --> 00:24:15.480
<v Speaker 1>I even think like he would pretend needing help and stuff,

464
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:18.079
<v Speaker 1>so like people, his colleagues would be touching him and

465
00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:22.359
<v Speaker 1>lead him back to the beduer. Oh my gosh, it's

466
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:26.799
<v Speaker 1>just too much, okay. Following two years of service in Germany,

467
00:24:27.119 --> 00:24:30.480
<v Speaker 1>Dennis would return to Aldershot, where he would pass his

468
00:24:30.519 --> 00:24:33.720
<v Speaker 1>official catering exam before being deployed to serve as a

469
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:38.160
<v Speaker 1>cook for the British Army in Norway. In nineteen sixty seven,

470
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:41.640
<v Speaker 1>he was deployed once again to the state of Aiden.

471
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:46.720
<v Speaker 1>Unlike his previous postings, this posting was not only more dangerous,

472
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:51.799
<v Speaker 1>but Dennis got his own room while stationed. This afforded

473
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:56.960
<v Speaker 1>him the privacy to masturbate without discovery and develop on

474
00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:00.720
<v Speaker 1>his fantasies of sex with an unconscious or deceased partner,

475
00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:05.960
<v Speaker 1>using his own body to fulfill his fantasies. Wait what

476
00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:07.319
<v Speaker 1>you ready?

477
00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:11.000
<v Speaker 2>How do I want to know how this works? I

478
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:13.680
<v Speaker 2>stopped myself in the midst of saying that do I

479
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:14.519
<v Speaker 2>want to know how?

480
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:17.680
<v Speaker 1>Even earlier you asked me a question or something about

481
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:19.640
<v Speaker 1>this case, and I told him, you're like fucking not

482
00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:21.400
<v Speaker 1>asking any other questions.

483
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:25.319
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, go ahead, let's hear it.

484
00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:29.799
<v Speaker 1>So Dennis would masturbate while looking at his own flat,

485
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:33.720
<v Speaker 1>laying nude body in the mirror, discovering that while using

486
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:37.440
<v Speaker 1>a free standing mirror, he could create an effect whereby

487
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:40.160
<v Speaker 1>if positioning the mirror so his head was out of view,

488
00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:43.759
<v Speaker 1>he could visualize himself engage in a sexual act with

489
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:45.759
<v Speaker 1>an entirely different person.

490
00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:52.640
<v Speaker 2>That's fucked up. I mean, that is really fucked up.

491
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:56.039
<v Speaker 2>But but he is not harming anyone yet.

492
00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:58.960
<v Speaker 1>That's just straight weird and it's just odd.

493
00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:02.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, points, I mean honestly.

494
00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:04.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, he should keep doing this.

495
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:08.160
<v Speaker 2>Really, that's what he should have kept doing. He should

496
00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:12.039
<v Speaker 2>have kept angling the mirror in such a fascinating way,

497
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:13.480
<v Speaker 2>angling that mirror.

498
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:14.240
<v Speaker 1>Just keep doing that.

499
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:19.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, master magician, the illusions. I want to see that

500
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:19.759
<v Speaker 2>magic show.

501
00:26:19.960 --> 00:26:24.200
<v Speaker 1>No, no, I'm not buying tickets to that. His fantasies

502
00:26:24.279 --> 00:26:28.920
<v Speaker 1>would gradually evolve to incorporate the dead bodies he'd seen

503
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:33.039
<v Speaker 1>and his own near death experience while on this deployment.

504
00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:39.839
<v Speaker 1>Also imagery from a nineteenth century oil painting, which is

505
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:42.519
<v Speaker 1>an which is of an older man holding the limp

506
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.359
<v Speaker 1>nude body of a dead youth. Next to him is

507
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:51.680
<v Speaker 1>a dismembered body of another young man. He would also

508
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:54.319
<v Speaker 1>often cover his body with are you good?

509
00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:56.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm not that good right now? This is fucking weird.

510
00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:59.079
<v Speaker 1>Let me just get through this last sentence, because it

511
00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:02.200
<v Speaker 1>does get a little fun and weirder. He would also

512
00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:06.279
<v Speaker 1>often cover his body with telcum powder like baby powder

513
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:10.160
<v Speaker 1>and paint his lips blue to give himself the appearance

514
00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:13.559
<v Speaker 1>of being dead while participating in his sexual fantasies.

515
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Wow again though, like he's not doing anything wrong yet.

516
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:20.880
<v Speaker 1>It's just no, no, he absolutely isn't. Really.

517
00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:25.240
<v Speaker 2>All it is is different strokes for different folks.

518
00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh god, God, I just don't won't if I want

519
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:33.960
<v Speaker 1>to talk about that anymore. Dennis would complete his assignment

520
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:37.720
<v Speaker 1>in Aiden and be assigned TOST to serve in several

521
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.440
<v Speaker 1>other places over the years, but seeming to move often

522
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.000
<v Speaker 1>so that only notework. So the only noteworthy experience before

523
00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:48.599
<v Speaker 1>he ended his eleven year military career in October nineteen

524
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:52.279
<v Speaker 1>seventy two was his first sexual experience with a female

525
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:53.000
<v Speaker 1>sex worker.

526
00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:55.319
<v Speaker 2>At this time, okay, he.

527
00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:58.319
<v Speaker 1>Bragged of his encounter to his colleagues, but would later

528
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:02.839
<v Speaker 1>state he found intercourse with the email both overrated and depressing.

529
00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:06.799
<v Speaker 2>Wow and depressing.

530
00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Which is like, holy shit, that's quite the way to describe.

531
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:14.640
<v Speaker 2>That emotional damage. Sorry, that's that's a thing on TikTok

532
00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:15.000
<v Speaker 2>right now.

533
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.039
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean he just wasn't into women, so it's like,

534
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:20.119
<v Speaker 1>but I missed he probably felt pressure to maybe experience that,

535
00:28:20.160 --> 00:28:23.319
<v Speaker 1>which is kind of shitty, right like, just because at

536
00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:27.839
<v Speaker 1>that time his ways weren't accepted, which isn't which isn't right.

537
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:33.720
<v Speaker 1>So Dennis would next decide to join the Metropolitan Metropolitan

538
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Metropolitan Politan Sorry Police and move to London in December

539
00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:43.359
<v Speaker 1>to begin the training course. In April nineteen seventy three,

540
00:28:43.720 --> 00:28:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Dennis completed his training and was posted to the will

541
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:51.240
<v Speaker 1>to Wilston Green, which is an area of northwest London.

542
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:55.000
<v Speaker 1>Dennis enjoyed working for the police, but he did miss

543
00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:57.720
<v Speaker 1>like the company and friendship of the army.

544
00:28:58.119 --> 00:28:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

545
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:02.880
<v Speaker 1>He began hitting up gay pubs and engaging in several

546
00:29:03.000 --> 00:29:07.279
<v Speaker 1>casual relationships with men, but view these encounters as sold

547
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:10.359
<v Speaker 1>a storing in which he would only lend his partner

548
00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:14.319
<v Speaker 1>his body in a vain search for inner peace. What

549
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:17.440
<v Speaker 1>he was really in search for was a lasting relationship.

550
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:19.440
<v Speaker 2>That's really sad.

551
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:22.799
<v Speaker 1>He has like some very interesting ways of describing shit though,

552
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:24.640
<v Speaker 1>and I'm assuming most.

553
00:29:24.440 --> 00:29:26.519
<v Speaker 2>Of these descriptions are coming from his bookue.

554
00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:28.240
<v Speaker 1>I think, so, yeah, you know I are yeah, or

555
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:30.079
<v Speaker 1>other books that were written and stuff that you were

556
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:35.039
<v Speaker 1>using his words and stuff. So so yeah. So come

557
00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:39.559
<v Speaker 1>December of nineteen seventy three, so really only about a

558
00:29:39.640 --> 00:29:42.640
<v Speaker 1>year after deciding to become a police officer, there was

559
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:46.200
<v Speaker 1>an incident where Dennis was in the position to arrest

560
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:50.079
<v Speaker 1>two men he caught having sex in a suspicially suspiciously

561
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:54.480
<v Speaker 1>parked car. He did not arrest them and decided that

562
00:29:54.559 --> 00:29:57.720
<v Speaker 1>his personal lifestyle was at odds with his job and

563
00:29:57.759 --> 00:29:59.000
<v Speaker 1>resigned from the place.

564
00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Wow, I take balls.

565
00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:05.000
<v Speaker 1>He chose himself. Yeah, which I was like, good on, Yeah, I.

566
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:08.279
<v Speaker 2>Mean I know a kind of guy he's gonna become,

567
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:11.319
<v Speaker 2>and I don't agree with that, but so far, I

568
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:13.279
<v Speaker 2>just I feel bad for him, and yeah, good on

569
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:15.039
<v Speaker 2>him for making that choice for himself.

570
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:17.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well, I don't think we should feel bad for him.

571
00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, no, I go there. I feel bad for at

572
00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:22.720
<v Speaker 2>this moment in his life, for what he's going through.

573
00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:27.119
<v Speaker 2>As soon as he crosses crosses that threshold, all is

574
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:29.759
<v Speaker 2>not forgiven anymore. You can't forgive that exactly.

575
00:30:31.319 --> 00:30:34.319
<v Speaker 1>So he then worked as a security guard briefly before

576
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:38.839
<v Speaker 1>and before finding work as a civil servant, which I

577
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:42.240
<v Speaker 1>believe is like working for the government. Now. Shortly after

578
00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:45.000
<v Speaker 1>finding stable employment, it was about like the end of

579
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:50.160
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy five, Dennis would meet David Gallachan. He crossed

580
00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:52.480
<v Speaker 1>that pass. I'm talking too fast, and when I soul the

581
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:56.440
<v Speaker 1>fuck down here, I'm like so intos I'm breathe, breathe.

582
00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:58.519
<v Speaker 1>I know, I actually forget to breathe sometimes because I'm

583
00:30:58.559 --> 00:31:01.480
<v Speaker 1>just like so into this shit. So he crossed paths

584
00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:05.720
<v Speaker 1>with David. When he encountered him being threatened outside a

585
00:31:05.759 --> 00:31:10.240
<v Speaker 1>pub by two men, Dennis intervened the altercation and took

586
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:13.640
<v Speaker 1>David back to his house. The two men would spend

587
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:17.400
<v Speaker 1>the evening drinking and getting to know each other. Dennis

588
00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:21.640
<v Speaker 1>learning that David was new to London, was gay, unemployed,

589
00:31:21.799 --> 00:31:25.400
<v Speaker 1>and currently living at a hostel, so they decided to

590
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:29.240
<v Speaker 1>move in together. In search for a bigger place to share,

591
00:31:29.880 --> 00:31:33.799
<v Speaker 1>they came across a ground floor flat at nineteen or

592
00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:38.440
<v Speaker 1>one nine to five Melrose Avenue. Along with the flat,

593
00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:42.720
<v Speaker 1>Dennis also negotiated with the landlord that the garden at

594
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:46.839
<v Speaker 1>the rear of the property would also be exclusively theirs,

595
00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:49.440
<v Speaker 1>and you may just hear a little bit more about

596
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:50.440
<v Speaker 1>this garden a little.

597
00:31:50.319 --> 00:31:55.319
<v Speaker 2>Later, his little garden Eden, although I'm sure it's very

598
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:58.720
<v Speaker 2>much so not Eden, but maybe in his eyes.

599
00:31:59.599 --> 00:32:03.839
<v Speaker 1>As the new couple settled into their home, they redecorated

600
00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:07.400
<v Speaker 1>and furnished the home, but their time in Paradise did

601
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:12.119
<v Speaker 1>not last all that long. Dennis would come to realize

602
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.559
<v Speaker 1>David lacked the desire to get a job and found

603
00:32:15.640 --> 00:32:19.640
<v Speaker 1>himself as the bread rinner in the relationship. Dennis was

604
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:23.240
<v Speaker 1>attracted to David, but would find that they seldom had

605
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:28.920
<v Speaker 1>intercourse and eventually started sleeping in separate beds and eventually

606
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:33.960
<v Speaker 1>would bring home casual sex partners. At that time, dude

607
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:36.519
<v Speaker 1>at Selva. Wow, in my opinion, I.

608
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:39.160
<v Speaker 2>Mean, there's such thing as polyamorous relationships, but I mean

609
00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:40.519
<v Speaker 2>that that has to agreed between them.

610
00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:43.759
<v Speaker 1>They probably I'm assuming if they were both bringing them home,

611
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:47.559
<v Speaker 1>they agreed upon it. But yeah, So this was within

612
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:51.400
<v Speaker 1>a year of them moving to Melrose Ave. It was

613
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:55.759
<v Speaker 1>an early nineteen seventy seven that the relationship officially ended,

614
00:32:56.160 --> 00:33:00.000
<v Speaker 1>with David leaving Dennis. David did say that Dennis was

615
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:04.839
<v Speaker 1>verbally abusive and controlling towards him, but was never violent.

616
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:09.519
<v Speaker 2>That so there you go. Yeah, and that's odd that

617
00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:11.319
<v Speaker 2>that all took place within like you said, the year

618
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:12.039
<v Speaker 2>of them moving in.

619
00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:14.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like they didn't last long together, but I mean

620
00:33:14.119 --> 00:33:16.839
<v Speaker 1>they moved in before they even really known each other too. Yeah,

621
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:18.839
<v Speaker 1>Like it was almost like, oh, we both or you

622
00:33:18.839 --> 00:33:20.799
<v Speaker 1>need a place to live, I need a companion, let's

623
00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:21.119
<v Speaker 1>do this.

624
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Well that that's a quick deterioration though, too. Like when

625
00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:27.319
<v Speaker 2>you hear of people falling apart like that, like sleeping

626
00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:30.200
<v Speaker 2>in separate beds and stuff, usually it's like, well, after

627
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:33.079
<v Speaker 2>a decade or so, like people slowly fall apart or

628
00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:36.559
<v Speaker 2>grow apart. Well, it's usually a much more slower process,

629
00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:38.279
<v Speaker 2>not like, oh it's been.

630
00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Like they should have still been in like the honeymoon face. Yeah, theoretically, theoretically, theoretically,

631
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:50.000
<v Speaker 1>after his relationship with David, Dennis would enter brief relationships

632
00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:53.240
<v Speaker 1>with several other men, but none of them lasted for

633
00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:56.519
<v Speaker 1>any significant amount of time, and none of the men

634
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:59.440
<v Speaker 1>express any interest in living with David, which is what

635
00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:05.000
<v Speaker 1>he does. Ised he just wants love. He does, And

636
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.440
<v Speaker 1>with that, the story takes another turn, the turn that

637
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:11.559
<v Speaker 1>I've been building up to and I'm sure the one

638
00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:12.559
<v Speaker 1>you've all been waiting for.

639
00:34:12.679 --> 00:34:13.760
<v Speaker 2>Yep, here we go.

640
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:19.559
<v Speaker 1>By late nineteen seventy eight, Dennis was feeling especially lonely

641
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:24.079
<v Speaker 1>and with numerous short and failed relationships since David, he

642
00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:27.400
<v Speaker 1>was feeling he was basically unfit to have a companion

643
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:31.159
<v Speaker 1>live with him, so he took measures into his own hands.

644
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:37.480
<v Speaker 1>Fuck deep breaths, sing.

645
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:38.880
<v Speaker 2>I gotta have a big swig.

646
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Swig at your bear. He had just spent Christmas alone

647
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:48.840
<v Speaker 1>and was determined not to also spend New Year's Eve alone.

648
00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:52.000
<v Speaker 1>So after a day of drinking alone, he decided he

649
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:56.519
<v Speaker 1>must at all costs leave his house to seek some company.

650
00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:00.559
<v Speaker 1>He headed to Crinklewood Arms Pub, where where he met

651
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:04.800
<v Speaker 1>Stephen Holmes, a fourteen year old boy who was in

652
00:35:04.880 --> 00:35:08.800
<v Speaker 1>the city attending a concert for context. Dennis at that

653
00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:10.320
<v Speaker 1>time was thirty three.

654
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:12.519
<v Speaker 2>Fuck twice eight over twice his age.

655
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:18.119
<v Speaker 1>Yep, Stephen only being fourteen. And there's mixed reports here,

656
00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:21.679
<v Speaker 1>so some say he was denied alcohol at the pub

657
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.800
<v Speaker 1>and some say he was drinking, which impaired his decision

658
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:29.719
<v Speaker 1>making skills when it came to Dennis. But either way,

659
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.320
<v Speaker 1>I think fourteen is a very impressionable age. Oh, he

660
00:35:33.519 --> 00:35:36.639
<v Speaker 1>was probably on cloud nine from just attending a concert

661
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:39.199
<v Speaker 1>that he wanted to go to, and he was flattered

662
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:41.840
<v Speaker 1>an older man in the city actually wanted to hang

663
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:44.679
<v Speaker 1>out with him, so, drinking or not, I could see

664
00:35:44.679 --> 00:35:46.599
<v Speaker 1>this playing out the way it did.

665
00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's understandable.

666
00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.800
<v Speaker 1>David invited Stephen back to his place, where the two

667
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:56.599
<v Speaker 1>of them drank plenty of alcohol, listened to music, and

668
00:35:56.639 --> 00:36:00.880
<v Speaker 1>then fell asleep. David would wake up first the following

669
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:05.199
<v Speaker 1>morning and find Stephen sleeping peacefully in the bed beside him.

670
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Here we go.

671
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:11.440
<v Speaker 1>He caressed the sleeping youth, afraid to wake him. He

672
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:14.360
<v Speaker 1>felt as soon as Stephen woke up and found him

673
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:18.360
<v Speaker 1>in the situation he was, he would leave. So instead,

674
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:21.760
<v Speaker 1>Dennis came up with a way to force Stephen to

675
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:26.960
<v Speaker 1>stay forever. Fuck Besides, he needed a companionship over the

676
00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:31.679
<v Speaker 1>new year. Stephen would then be awoken in the most

677
00:36:32.239 --> 00:36:33.880
<v Speaker 1>terrifying of ways.

678
00:36:34.039 --> 00:36:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Ah, here we go.

679
00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:40.280
<v Speaker 1>David had slipped a necktie around his neck, straddled him,

680
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:44.239
<v Speaker 1>and was beginning to strangle him. He strangled him until

681
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:49.119
<v Speaker 1>he was unconscious, but soon realized that Stephen was still

682
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:52.639
<v Speaker 1>breathing and the job was not done.

683
00:36:51.920 --> 00:36:53.960
<v Speaker 2>So he was going for a kill. He wasn't just

684
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:55.639
<v Speaker 2>trying to get him unconscious.

685
00:36:55.119 --> 00:36:56.519
<v Speaker 1>Here, No, he's going for a kill.

686
00:36:56.840 --> 00:36:57.079
<v Speaker 2>Fuck.

687
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:00.519
<v Speaker 1>So what he did next was quick, we fill a

688
00:37:00.519 --> 00:37:04.400
<v Speaker 1>bucket with water, placed Steven's head inside the bucket, and

689
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:05.159
<v Speaker 1>drowned him.

690
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:12.159
<v Speaker 2>Fuck. Holy shit, Okay, that was unexpected.

691
00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:17.559
<v Speaker 1>He then proceeded to wash Steven's lifeless body, placed him

692
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:22.159
<v Speaker 1>on his bed, and masturbated over him, finally fulfilling his

693
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:29.639
<v Speaker 1>greatest fantasy. Wow, all before placing him beneath his floorboards,

694
00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:33.360
<v Speaker 1>where Steven would remain for almost eight months.

695
00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:42.639
<v Speaker 2>What eight months? Holy fuck? Whoa, whoa? Oh my god. Okay, okay,

696
00:37:43.360 --> 00:37:48.719
<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize it went on that long with these individuals.

697
00:37:48.760 --> 00:37:51.920
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was like eight days, maybe weeks. I

698
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:55.400
<v Speaker 2>didn't think it was months that he kept them. Fuck.

699
00:37:56.039 --> 00:37:57.800
<v Speaker 1>So I feel like kind of a jerk doing this.

700
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:02.360
<v Speaker 1>But my friends, that is one Oh my god.

701
00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:04.039
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

702
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:07.679
<v Speaker 1>And to hear the remainder of the story, you will

703
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:10.000
<v Speaker 1>have to tune into part two next week.

704
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:14.159
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit. Way to leave us on a major cliffhanger.

705
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:19.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I apologize, but don't you don't please send it.

706
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:21.480
<v Speaker 1>So it's like, if I went any further, why would

707
00:38:21.519 --> 00:38:25.559
<v Speaker 1>you want to listen. Wow, it gets wild. So there

708
00:38:25.559 --> 00:38:25.880
<v Speaker 1>you go.

709
00:38:26.119 --> 00:38:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Okay, all right, you're good. Yeah, okay, So part

710
00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:32.239
<v Speaker 2>two is next week.

711
00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:36.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we're I think we're going to start releasing part

712
00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:40.800
<v Speaker 1>twos on the following week. Yeah, so we're being real

713
00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:41.559
<v Speaker 1>mean apparently.

714
00:38:41.800 --> 00:38:44.800
<v Speaker 2>Well previously we've done part two within the same week

715
00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:49.679
<v Speaker 2>and then release another on the Tuesday. Just right now,

716
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:52.960
<v Speaker 2>we just we're just we can't afford the time to

717
00:38:53.039 --> 00:38:53.960
<v Speaker 2>research that much.

718
00:38:54.159 --> 00:38:55.880
<v Speaker 1>We might go back to that, but I mean putting

719
00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:57.519
<v Speaker 1>a part one in part two was pretty much like

720
00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:01.320
<v Speaker 1>putting two episodes out right. Yeah, so yeah, this won't

721
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:04.159
<v Speaker 1>be out next Tuesday, And you're definitely gonna want to.

722
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:06.320
<v Speaker 2>Tune in, yes, and you're gonna want to tune in

723
00:39:06.519 --> 00:39:09.639
<v Speaker 2>to our social media's as well. We've got Instagram, Facebook,

724
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:13.039
<v Speaker 2>We've got a YouTube even linked down below, Patreon, and

725
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:15.079
<v Speaker 2>of course badass merch.

726
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:16.079
<v Speaker 1>There you go.

727
00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:19.719
<v Speaker 2>You can get some stay wicked, some wicked, grim stickers, notebooks, gear,

728
00:39:19.840 --> 00:39:22.719
<v Speaker 2>you can get a fucking blanket for just so cool.

729
00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:24.559
<v Speaker 1>You can get so much cool shit. I need a blanket.

730
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:26.880
<v Speaker 2>No one's gotten a blanket yet. If someone gets a blanket,

731
00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:28.480
<v Speaker 2>got to send us a picture.

732
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:29.639
<v Speaker 1>Word of the day.

733
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:32.480
<v Speaker 2>No shit, they will be. If you get a blanket

734
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:34.360
<v Speaker 2>and you send us a picture of our blanket on

735
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:37.079
<v Speaker 2>your bed, you will officially be the badass of the

736
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:38.280
<v Speaker 2>day in one of our episodes.

737
00:39:38.320 --> 00:39:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, actually yes for Chisel, maybe I'll order it.

738
00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:44.559
<v Speaker 1>I need some bads of the day in my life.

739
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:47.280
<v Speaker 2>You will be the badass of the day. Awesome. Well,

740
00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:49.840
<v Speaker 2>thank you for tuning in. I look forward to part two. Bib.

741
00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh, yeah, you're gonna want to tune in.

742
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:53.679
<v Speaker 2>Awesome, look forward to it.

743
00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:54.599
<v Speaker 1>Stay Wicked,