Speaker 1: Welcome to Reader Syndicate three point zero, the next evolution
Speaker 1: of look into counterculture that is Canad. My name is Matthew,
Speaker 1: owner of Riot Seeds, and this started as a one
Speaker 1: man mission for strain history and breeding science. Over time
Speaker 1: it's evolved into something bigger, better, and more of a
Speaker 1: team effort. We will be joined by members of the
Speaker 1: can Illuminati and other friends throughout the seasons hear their
Speaker 1: takes on grow techniques, breeding science, string history, and more.
Speaker 1: Our mission is to combat the narrative that corporate cannabis
Speaker 1: and seed posters are obfuscating for their own financial benefit.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the underground. We are the syndicate. Welcome to
Speaker 1: Breeders Syndicate. I'm Matt here with my co host on
Speaker 1: thousand and Fold and our constant stay guest, mister farmer
Speaker 1: fucking Dan. Now you can see his face to wait,
Speaker 1: I'm not supposed to custody.
Speaker 2: Hold on, hold onconds all.
Speaker 1: Right, Welcome the readers send to get I'm Matthew here
Speaker 1: with my co host Thousandfold and our friend Farmer Dan,
Speaker 1: who's been a mainstay on the show. Welcome my friends.
Speaker 1: Today we're going to be talking kind of revisiting our cookies,
Speaker 1: breeding with cookies and in the dead ends of cookies
Speaker 1: and whether it is a breeding dead end or not.
Speaker 1: I decided, and actually we kind of as a group
Speaker 1: decided to revisit this a little bit. I was rewatching
Speaker 1: the episode that we did, and I think it was
Speaker 1: super informative at the beginning, but there's a few narratives
Speaker 1: that got spun in it that just don't ring true.
Speaker 1: And I tried to kind of put that, put that
Speaker 1: out there during the episode while we were recording it,
Speaker 1: but it doesn't seem like it was heard very well.
Speaker 1: And now, like I'm seeing stuff pop up on social
Speaker 1: media that XYZ is responsible for cookies and this and that,
Speaker 1: and it's just not true. And of all things that
Speaker 1: we want to do with this show is combat misinformation.
Speaker 1: Like first and foremost, it's not good. It's the opposite
Speaker 1: of our mission to make it about an ego thing
Speaker 1: like I'm responsible for this, this and this and no
Speaker 1: one else, you know, like all that is the opposite
Speaker 1: of what we want to do. And it is our
Speaker 1: biggest episode, and it was a hard decision, but we're
Speaker 1: going to go ahead and redo it, reshoot it, and
Speaker 1: try to keep it as accurate as we can for
Speaker 1: the time being, and again, if things change, we'll do
Speaker 1: another one. You know, as much as all of us
Speaker 1: are kind of sick of talking about cookies and all
Speaker 1: its derivatives, it's a necessary thing and it just seems
Speaker 1: like people only heard the last I don't know a
Speaker 1: few minutes of the episode. So with that thousand, you
Speaker 1: want to kick it off and tell them where we're
Speaker 1: taking it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I think where we start is looking at
Speaker 3: the major components, at least that we are aware of
Speaker 3: of cookies. So I think out of of F one Derb,
Speaker 3: cherry Pie, GDP, Purple Erkle, and og kush Man, we
Speaker 3: start with the F one dirb. What do you think that?
Speaker 1: Okay, so the F one derb is a very unique plant.
Speaker 1: It was not passed around a lot. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of debate, be it from Tenny Flowers of Powers. He
Speaker 1: says that he's never passed the cut, but we know,
Speaker 1: like he doesn't really like he has other people make
Speaker 1: seeds for them, so of course he has to pass
Speaker 1: the cut. But you know, there's a guy named Cookie
Speaker 1: Monster who kept the F one derb for a long time,
Speaker 1: and he was responsible for the F one Derb account
Speaker 1: on Instagram, and that's the exact cut that we have
Speaker 1: in the circle. Yeah, it's it's a unique cut. It
Speaker 1: obviously has a lot of the structure that you see
Speaker 1: in Cookies, the really unique structure, the bubbly bracts, very
Speaker 1: very specifically, the knobby look that Cookies has comes from
Speaker 1: a lot of the F one dirb stuff. It's it's
Speaker 1: debatable on whether it's an S one or not. Again,
Speaker 1: it's one of those things where we just won't know.
Speaker 1: There is another cut called we call the Durban Bay
Speaker 1: or the Bay Durban that CSI got from Green Dragon,
Speaker 1: I think five six years ago. And he was grown
Speaker 1: up side by side because we've been doing our F
Speaker 1: one derb projects together, and he was grown up side
Speaker 1: by side and thought somebody screwed up the cut because
Speaker 1: in vegs they were so identical that he was sure
Speaker 1: someone screwed up, like one of his workers screwed up
Speaker 1: the cut. So he was all pissed off. And then
Speaker 1: they start flowering and they're almost identical looking, except one
Speaker 1: is green and one is a deep black purple. There's
Speaker 1: differences in the turp profiles, but we'll see over time,
Speaker 1: like how you know, acclimatizing and being in the same
Speaker 1: room over time, being fed the same stuff over time.
Speaker 1: We'll see how much those turp profiles like either get
Speaker 1: you know, similar, or if they break for their apart
Speaker 1: or they stay where they're at. As of right now,
Speaker 1: it seems like one one is a descendant of the other,
Speaker 1: one is a sister of the other, bag seat of
Speaker 1: the other, hybrid of the other. We just don't know.
Speaker 1: It's a really really unique cut. And as much as
Speaker 1: I've always taken what Cookie fam says with a grain
Speaker 1: of salt because none of our braiders, barely any of
Speaker 1: our growers, it does seem to hold true that F
Speaker 1: one Derb is a major component of forum cookies proper
Speaker 1: and probably thin mint as well. So yeah, I don't know, Dan,
Speaker 1: what do you if you have any takes on F
Speaker 1: one Derb at all.
Speaker 4: I've never even had a chance to see it. I've
Speaker 4: never come across the clone. I've got more thoughts on
Speaker 4: the next few.
Speaker 1: Okay, so one the other thing I'll add is, this
Speaker 1: is one of the main reasons I'm really doing the
Speaker 1: show too, is that, you know, there were some rumors
Speaker 1: going around that the anus cut or you know, you
Speaker 1: can call what you want. I call it the anus
Speaker 1: is the mother or is F one derb? Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: no relation. When that claim was made, the person who
Speaker 1: made that claim had never smoked, grown seen F one Derb,
Speaker 1: So it was kind of a bold claim. But going
Speaker 1: off what me and cs I've seen, there's no way.
Speaker 1: It's just not It's just not there. It does. Anus
Speaker 1: does look like a Mendo Purpse type. Whether F one
Speaker 1: Derb is a Mendo Purpse type or not. Unknown, it's
Speaker 1: it's very different looking than F one Derb, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: than Mendo Purpse. Yeah, I'm gonna leave it there. Uh,
Speaker 1: that's that's one of them. I can't believe how fast
Speaker 1: that spread. And when I'm a part of something that's misinformation,
Speaker 1: I gotta cut it.
Speaker 4: Yeah. With that one, I don't feel like it was
Speaker 4: ever like explicitly said too, because I kind of filled
Speaker 4: that gap in myself as well and thought that for
Speaker 4: a few months there where I was just like, oh,
Speaker 4: I don't think he wants to say it out of
Speaker 4: like humility or something, but like I completely fell into
Speaker 4: that trap too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And and in fairness, like I got to watch
Speaker 1: from behind the scenes how that narrative, that narrative started evolving,
Speaker 1: and it started with like, hey, I think someone else saying, hey,
Speaker 1: I think this the mental purposes in cookies, and then
Speaker 1: it just kind of slowly evolved into connecting this dot
Speaker 1: and string and dot string.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but without actually any additional data points.
Speaker 1: Yeah, zero data points. No more grows, no more flowers,
Speaker 1: no more nothing else. That annis cuts not around to
Speaker 1: be even compared now, Like there's a whole lot of
Speaker 1: stuff that was missing from that. Yeah, that data point.
Speaker 1: So I'd rather stick to what we know and what
Speaker 1: we've seen and what we've experienced. And I've actually grown
Speaker 1: f one Derb sourced it very early on, used it,
Speaker 1: bred with it, ran the plants from it. The progeny
Speaker 1: chased it back down via Frostboss and Stony rest in peace. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it takes. It takes growing stuff, smoking it,
Speaker 1: learning about it, their progeny. There's supposed progeny to really
Speaker 1: try to make educated conclusions on stuff like that. Just
Speaker 1: saying it and isn't enough. And That's probably where I'll
Speaker 1: leave the F one Dirk conversation after Now, I did.
Speaker 3: Want to ask you one more thing, Matt, which is
Speaker 3: what was your anecdotal experience with it? Like I'm not
Speaker 3: asking you to obviously make any claims, but maybe like
Speaker 3: you know, what are your speculations on it based on
Speaker 3: what you saw of its traits or you know, anything
Speaker 3: interesting that you noticed.
Speaker 1: So when I grew it, it was very like, let's
Speaker 1: work for it. Like it had a champagne rolow type smell.
Speaker 1: There's some pissiness, but I never caught the gingerbread end
Speaker 1: of it, and I think there is some sort of
Speaker 1: gingerbread end to it that other people smell. It's very
Speaker 1: herm prone. That's that's like the first thing you notice
Speaker 1: when running it very herm prone. It's looser than it
Speaker 1: looks like visually you look at it, you might think
Speaker 1: it's more dense like cookies. Not at all. Is it
Speaker 1: a Durban poison is probably one of the questions I
Speaker 1: get the most. I would say, there's no way in
Speaker 1: hell it's a pure Durbin poison. It's got a lot
Speaker 1: of Afghani type traits to it, which Durbin poison is
Speaker 1: a well, there's a lot of different things called durban poison.
Speaker 1: It's an area in Africa. There's a lot of things
Speaker 1: that come out of that area. Traditionally, there's the Dutch
Speaker 1: Passion Durban poison that most people think of. There's the
Speaker 1: Norcl Durbon poison, which is ultrapinaling. I believe it was
Speaker 1: the mel Frank Durban poison cut that was all and loose,
Speaker 1: you know, like aniseid. So this isn't necessarily that. With
Speaker 1: Kenny Powers, he said a few times a few different things.
Speaker 1: He said that F one derb is the derb cross
Speaker 1: to F one, and what is an F one? He said,
Speaker 1: it's like a formula in race car, and that's why
Speaker 1: we called it that, And then he also later said
Speaker 1: it is durban cross to durban crosses something cross to
Speaker 1: purple pain, which was like a purple from the Bay area,
Speaker 1: which is probably like an arkle GDP, but hard to say,
Speaker 1: hard to say, don't see a lot of arkle in it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's that's probably the most I could say
Speaker 1: about the traits other than what we talked about later
Speaker 1: on in its relation to other things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, super interesting, and obviously people now starting to go
Speaker 3: out some of those crosses, so we might might learn
Speaker 3: more of the time. Okay, so we can move on
Speaker 3: to cherry Pie you want to kick it off, Dan.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I started seeing it in like twenty fourteen, fifteen,
Speaker 4: I think the clone was at HPRC and Arcada, and
Speaker 4: so that's where I picked it up at least, and
Speaker 4: I grew it a little bit. I kind of wasn't
Speaker 4: a good grower yet, and so I got like little
Speaker 4: popcorn buds of just like rock hard. It was like
Speaker 4: green with marbling like stripes of.
Speaker 1: How hard and how hard was it? Rock hard? Sorry?
Speaker 4: And it was really nice, man. I remember that a
Speaker 4: pound of it was like the size of a football. Yeah,
Speaker 4: it was the smallest pound I think I've still seen
Speaker 4: the date, and so it was really killer. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 4: The smoke was kind of meh, Like it was tasty
Speaker 4: but didn't get you that high compared to like the
Speaker 4: diesel headband og that kind of everyone crapped out at
Speaker 4: that time. It was just another one like that people
Speaker 4: kept a few plants of and like their outdoor patch,
Speaker 4: just as like variety, but like it wasn't like a
Speaker 4: bulk produced plant that I I don't think I've seen
Speaker 4: anyone ever bulk produce it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So my first experience with the cherry pie was
Speaker 1: on icy man lump status had just gotten hold of
Speaker 1: the cut and was growing that and some of the
Speaker 1: other cookie fam cuts. And I remember looking at the
Speaker 1: cherry pie on there and just thinking this is so gorgeous,
Speaker 1: and it was the forum was all. He was also
Speaker 1: growing the forum publicly on there and it was very
Speaker 1: unique looking. But cherry pie really really like is it cherry?
Speaker 1: Is it like a cherry pie? Like that? All was
Speaker 1: very intriguing and looking at it, it was just it
Speaker 1: looked like more of what I wanted to grow versus
Speaker 1: the forum. And I remember reaching out to him. Weren't
Speaker 1: friends yet, and I reached out to him and I
Speaker 1: was like, hey, dude, what do you want for that? Like,
Speaker 1: what do you want to trade for that cut? And
Speaker 1: we ended up doing some sort of exchange. Might he
Speaker 1: given him right un or something like that, like my
Speaker 1: mom cut of that And a mutual friend of ours
Speaker 1: who I'll shout out, Gail from PNC ape radical dude.
Speaker 1: I mean back in the day in San Diego he
Speaker 1: ran a place called People's Nursery Care PNC and he
Speaker 1: had some of the most legit He's where I saw
Speaker 1: strawberry cream originally from that clowne. The soul Assassin number
Speaker 1: three and one source from him, la afy just all
Speaker 1: kinds of stuff, dude, Like he was so responsible for
Speaker 1: so much ending up in my hands. So shout out
Speaker 1: to Gail. Gail's legit and like there were so few
Speaker 1: clones that I ever gotten. I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: know about that one from him. He was so much
Speaker 1: before his time, doing great provenance of research, serious about it,
Speaker 1: and he had a good business down there, really good business.
Speaker 1: And he's still up and running somewhere. I think, I
Speaker 1: don't know what he's necessarily doing now, but he's still
Speaker 1: out there kicking it. And he came and brought down
Speaker 1: Cherry Pie along with some other stuff, and it was
Speaker 1: about twenty eleven, and my first time running it. The
Speaker 1: first thing I noticed was, oh my god, this is gassy.
Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of gas to cherry Pie. Not
Speaker 1: just the sweet end, but there's a gassy end that
Speaker 1: you could pull out of. It reminded me a lot
Speaker 1: of like an og gassy type when you pull gasy
Speaker 1: og out. What else was there? Beautiful purple colors that
Speaker 1: you can pull out of it? Structures, Si very, I'll
Speaker 1: bring this up right now. There's a structure so reminiscent
Speaker 1: of the F one d that it's almost hard to
Speaker 1: ignore that they're absolutely related. I would venture to guess
Speaker 1: purple GDP type uh with the F one derb makes
Speaker 1: sense to me, But there is some kind of gassy
Speaker 1: O G cush to it. And there's some speculation, like
Speaker 1: with me on on F one derb maybe having O
Speaker 1: G cross to it at some point or inside of it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's I think that's most of the cherry
Speaker 1: Pie tail. Unless you guys get any questions or to add.
Speaker 3: Yeah, anything else you want to add then, or any
Speaker 3: other question.
Speaker 4: Just to remember, it had like little like triangle buds. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, like it was all popcorn. It was very
Speaker 4: similar to Forum in that regard, where it was like
Speaker 4: all small buds that were like very very dense, and.
Speaker 1: You could tell they like looking at them even as
Speaker 1: clones when they were growing that they were probably directly
Speaker 1: related in some way as well, the Forum and the
Speaker 1: Cherry Pie.
Speaker 4: I also vaguely remember it growing pretty slow and shitty.
Speaker 1: I don't know if grown slow and sheet at the
Speaker 1: time because it was so young at that time it
Speaker 1: hadn't been pasted.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not I'm not sure. I can't remember really,
Speaker 4: but like when I think about it, I vaguely remember
Speaker 4: it's like kind of a shorter, slow growing plant, which
Speaker 4: would kind of lend itself to something like an ercle
Speaker 4: or a GDP.
Speaker 1: Oh let me add in intersex. Oh yeah, big time,
Speaker 1: big time. And if it is related to the f WINDRB,
Speaker 1: then that's probably why that trait seems to be pretty
Speaker 1: heavy and cookies and cherry pie and a lot of stuff.
Speaker 3: So yeah, for sure, I kind of want to foreshadow
Speaker 3: at this point that we're probably not going to get
Speaker 3: around to constructing any kind of timeline, and that this
Speaker 3: is kind of a that these genetics are like a
Speaker 3: crazy circle dono, you know inbread nested ring of whatever, cannabis,
Speaker 3: human centipede vibe. Yeah, but yeah, we can move on
Speaker 3: to GDP.
Speaker 1: Oh GDP. So there's this is another one that has
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I want to go in
Speaker 1: the history of GDP so much as kind of reference it.
Speaker 1: I know CSI is like his opinion on GDP has
Speaker 1: changed a lot. On what is GDP, what is arkle
Speaker 1: which I don't even know if he's brought up publicly,
Speaker 1: but it's it's it's interesting, real interesting. And I'll leave
Speaker 1: that to him maybe when he owes us an episode.
Speaker 1: And I reminded him just this weekend, you owe us
Speaker 1: an episode, buddy, and he.
Speaker 3: Apparently cush of the giants and the Little hill I'm
Speaker 3: both going to try and ed some pressure as well.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it will help or not, but.
Speaker 1: He knows, he knows what's up GDP. So there is
Speaker 1: a wonderful video with Ken Stez talking about the history
Speaker 1: of GDP, and I remember a long time ago on
Speaker 1: the forums, I transcribed it so people could actually read
Speaker 1: what mumble Mouth was saying, and essentially he said that
Speaker 1: he was given the clone by Native American Shamans in
Speaker 1: front of some headlights at a ceremony of sorts, and
Speaker 1: because he was such a cool white man, they decided
Speaker 1: to gift him this magical clone that was not only skunk,
Speaker 1: but like from Vietnam and all this other stuff, and
Speaker 1: it was the most purple weed he'd ever seen. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, GDP reminds me a lot of an Erkle
Speaker 1: type and they seem to be directly related in some way.
Speaker 1: I don't know if one came before the other. Back
Speaker 1: in the day, almost everything was called GDP, whether it
Speaker 1: was erkele, whether it was grape bape, whether all those
Speaker 1: names were so interchangeable it became really hard to tie
Speaker 1: down to a specific clone. There was the Ken's GDP
Speaker 1: referring to canestes that was super purple, and then he
Speaker 1: made a seed line that he called Grandaddy purple, which
Speaker 1: really screwed everything up, and all of a sudden, everybody
Speaker 1: had the real GDP Ken's GDP because he put out
Speaker 1: the seed line of fen seeds. As far as relation is,
Speaker 1: I don't see much difference between it and arkle and
Speaker 1: how it breeds. To really say again, which came first,
Speaker 1: the chicken or the egg, But they're both so heavily
Speaker 1: involved in thin mint in forum in my opinion that
Speaker 1: they could be synonymous and used interchangeably in that way.
Speaker 1: Grapey purple, slow growing, super afghanic outdoors. They have more
Speaker 1: narrow leaves than they would broad leave, so some people
Speaker 1: would confuse it for a sativa outdoors, but I mean
Speaker 1: a short squat, short internode spacing. Yeah, super grapy, But
Speaker 1: in veg both the GDP and RKLE are some of
Speaker 1: the absolute skunkiest cuts. You can have. When you take
Speaker 1: cuts of those things, it fills up a room and
Speaker 1: smells like just straight skunk spray. But when flowering about
Speaker 1: week six, they go from that skunky smell to sweet grape,
Speaker 1: and it's a big change up. But yeah, that's what
Speaker 1: I got. I don't know if you have much experience.
Speaker 4: With it, Dan, No, So I've never actually held like
Speaker 4: a verified cut of any of the real purples. They
Speaker 4: were a little bit before my time. Like I remember
Speaker 4: buying bags of stuff called GDP and there's really good
Speaker 4: purple weed in it, you know. But one thing that
Speaker 4: I've always thought was interesting was I saw this peer
Speaker 4: reviewed paper that where they had collected a bunch of
Speaker 4: clones out of American grows and you know, done the
Speaker 4: gene correlations and made a phylogenetic tree, and all of
Speaker 4: the purples were clustered together. Yeah, and then all of
Speaker 4: them were also very much more basal. So like you
Speaker 4: have the tree going off of like all the modern cuts,
Speaker 4: and you see like OGE and you see C. Ninety
Speaker 4: nine and all the shit just on this main branch,
Speaker 4: and then out of nowhere from way more basal, the
Speaker 4: purple shoot up to the top and to me, that
Speaker 4: kind of lends its to the stories. There's a few
Speaker 4: stories that we've heard on the show of people being
Speaker 4: given seeds from the seventies. Yeah, And I've heard a
Speaker 4: few of those stories myself outside the show as well,
Speaker 4: And I think that's kind of where most of them
Speaker 4: arrived from, is from like Afghanis and like you know,
Speaker 4: cuts from the from the East over there and them
Speaker 4: getting stored and then popped by people in the nineties,
Speaker 4: And I think that's where most of these cuts come from.
Speaker 4: And it actually showed that grape ape was the most
Speaker 4: basal out of all of them.
Speaker 1: Does that mean like the parental.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like further upstream right when you say basil.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, exactly like it. It would be like grape
Speaker 4: ape and then like a branch off of that, and
Speaker 4: it would show GDP and a branch off of that,
Speaker 4: and it would show Erkele and like, I can't remember
Speaker 4: the placement of each of them in regard to each other,
Speaker 4: But it also depends on like what the named cut
Speaker 4: that those people collected were, because I've never been able
Speaker 4: to tell the difference when someone says, oh, this is
Speaker 4: purple cush clone, this is a GDP this is a
Speaker 4: purple ercle. Like, they all are really really similar in
Speaker 4: my opinion, and h yeah, I think that they're all
Speaker 4: probably very closely related, if not renames of cuts or
Speaker 4: bag seeds of each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The SR seventy one purple cush was a big one,
Speaker 1: and I had that growing side by side with Erkle
Speaker 1: back in the day, and that was sourced from Blue
Speaker 1: Skycafe or SR seventy one, which became Blue Skycafe later on,
Speaker 1: And I could never tell the difference between the two.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we'd say, oh, the SR seventy one's more hashy,
Speaker 1: more earthy hashy, but like it could have just been different,
Speaker 1: you know, just small, little different. I don't even know.
Speaker 4: Bro.
Speaker 1: Like, they were also similar, all of them gdp They
Speaker 1: all grew short, squat short internode spacing, had less trouble
Speaker 1: with grape pape. I always thought it was kind of prettier
Speaker 1: and had more narrow type leaves, but I've seen Erkle
Speaker 1: perform that way too. Yeah, it's I think you're right too.
Speaker 1: I think it's just an introduction of old purple afghanies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, like it's it's one of those things
Speaker 1: where it was so many clones were passed around in
Speaker 1: the same area of California with these different names. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Urkle didn't pop up as a name until Family Matters
Speaker 1: was a TV show, but before that it had other names,
Speaker 1: you know, like just purple, purple Bud, purple skunk, you know,
Speaker 1: things like that were around. GDP was named what it
Speaker 1: was because it was supposed to be the og Purple,
Speaker 1: the one that came before all the other ones, the
Speaker 1: granddaddy of them, you know. But whether that's true or not,
Speaker 1: or just like someone trying to push a narrative again,
Speaker 1: like trying to find that original called it would be
Speaker 1: damn near impossible to untie that unless you find someone
Speaker 1: that's had it with good provenance going back however long mhm, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Was gonna I was gonna prompt this next one, which
Speaker 3: was we're gonna obviously talk about og as well, but
Speaker 3: we've also seen we've also seen Oerkle hybrids of og
Speaker 3: Erkele og hybrids out there made by other people, like
Speaker 3: obviously Caleb's got two one thousand, and I can't remember
Speaker 3: the line that that was from. What do you guys
Speaker 3: think based on looking at just straight og Erkle type
Speaker 3: hybrids and how they might resemble cookies when not.
Speaker 1: You can get really really close. You can get damn
Speaker 1: close to cookies with it. It's not the most common expression,
Speaker 1: but you can get really damn close without without the
Speaker 1: without the F one derb essentially, but you've got a
Speaker 1: little bit different of a structure. You always get a
Speaker 1: more OG type structure. I do still think that it's
Speaker 1: part of the reason why I think OG is an
Speaker 1: F one derb though, because it's only a little bit
Speaker 1: of a hint of a difference between an erkle og
Speaker 1: hybrid and what we knew is forum per se. You know,
Speaker 1: the the thin mint to me was always more narrow leaf,
Speaker 1: which I was kind of wonder where that came from
Speaker 1: as opposed to this erkele og hybrid. And it may
Speaker 1: just be that difference between what's dominating in there and
Speaker 1: that's the F one But F one durb also looks
Speaker 1: pretty broad leaved in many ways, so I don't really know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Caleb did a lot of erkele and og hybrids before
Speaker 1: he made it. Up to two one thousand, he had
Speaker 1: the Savage Purple, which is the SFV for uh SFV Purkle.
Speaker 1: There was God's Gift back in the day, which was
Speaker 1: GDP o G that was real famous in California. I
Speaker 1: used that early on. I think Guy even did some,
Speaker 1: but a lot of people were doing that combination.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: O G was hype and purples were hype, and that's
Speaker 1: what people wanted. Like the Sol Assassin number three looked
Speaker 1: like an erkle. OG looked just dead on like an erkle.
Speaker 1: O G didn't have the same knobby structure or bubbly
Speaker 1: calyxies that the bracts that that cookies has. But the
Speaker 1: resin production was absolutely insane. There's a lot of gassy,
Speaker 1: skunkiness to it. It was short, low yielding like popcorn structure.
Speaker 1: It had a lot of that. It ticked a lot
Speaker 1: of the same boxes, really really high PhD testing, really
Speaker 1: dull high. Yeah, damn.
Speaker 3: Any thoughts on that one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, I've seen some OG hybrids with different purples
Speaker 4: and the only thing that makes me go back to
Speaker 4: Mendo Purpse is the annis and the liquorice turps because
Speaker 4: those turps are they're so prevalent when you breed with
Speaker 4: cookie stuff, and like it's I think one of the
Speaker 4: main components that makes that sherb aroma as it's like referenced,
Speaker 4: you know, point, and I don't really get a lot
Speaker 4: of like when I've bred with this stuff, I don't
Speaker 4: really get skunky or grapey ever. You know. It's pretty
Speaker 4: much always like some cream any licorice type thing with
Speaker 4: some gas. And that's the only reason I think it
Speaker 4: in some way, in the most incestuous way possible, leads
Speaker 4: back to Mendo Purp as the donor for the purple.
Speaker 4: And also, I mean it's hard to say though, because
Speaker 4: Mendo Purps also its purple traits are true purple, you know,
Speaker 4: versus the other ones. They're very climate dependent, you know,
Speaker 4: like the temperature dependent, and so that's like the counter
Speaker 4: argument is that it's like, oh, well, there's not a
Speaker 4: lot of true breeding purple in cookies lines either, you know.
Speaker 4: It's always kind of that gray purple and it comes
Speaker 4: on late, whereas like Mendo Purps and some of its
Speaker 4: hybrids will like purple out in a hot room in
Speaker 4: week two, and so it goes back and forth. I
Speaker 4: see data points that point in both directions, you know,
Speaker 4: and Mendo Purps.
Speaker 1: Another thing about that is that it has a lot
Speaker 1: of magenta in it that's true breeding as well, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's hard to shake magenta out of Mendo purps hybrids
Speaker 1: down the line, and I just never see that in
Speaker 1: the cookies on its own. I just thought, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you can't directionally breed, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like it could always be a directional breeding
Speaker 1: and managed to avoid that magenta trait. It's just it's
Speaker 1: like with the other place I see it is in
Speaker 1: Chaitral and like double purple doja stuff like that from
Speaker 1: the BlackBerry. And there's always been some kind of theories
Speaker 1: on whether you know BlackBerry was related to Mendo purps
Speaker 1: or not. Mendo Purpse may be one of those old
Speaker 1: purple afghanis that was floating around, and God knows where
Speaker 1: it came from. I mean, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: necessarily believe every story I hear now, but I do
Speaker 1: think it was a base for a lot of the purples.
Speaker 1: I do how it got to be that base, whether
Speaker 1: it was a sister, whether it was one cut, whether
Speaker 1: it was bag seeds going around, nor col And it
Speaker 1: wasn't even necessarily the first thing called Medicino purple. There
Speaker 1: was other Mendocino purples.
Speaker 4: Earlier.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were going to do an episode on that too, right,
Speaker 3: like we're going to do a.
Speaker 1: May oh yeah yeah yeah yeah. We were huhm, all
Speaker 1: making funny, we're in this, Yeah, that's right, we were originally, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but this needed to be done for sure.
Speaker 3: So we've sort of talked about OG already. Is there
Speaker 3: anything else to add on the OG side of things.
Speaker 1: As far as this goes, Like with cookies, like a
Speaker 1: really good example of an OG dominant cookies would have
Speaker 1: been something like animal cookies. To me, it was it
Speaker 1: was the the more OG end of florum. I mean
Speaker 1: they almost again, they almost looked identical on VEDG, they
Speaker 1: almost looked identical and flower except it had more of
Speaker 1: an o g cush structure and more of an og
Speaker 1: cush scent. And that was probably one of my favorite
Speaker 1: cuts at all of them, because I really liked og cush.
Speaker 1: I don't think you get cookies without og cush. I
Speaker 1: don't think you get if you can get o gkb
Speaker 1: og cush breath looking stuff without OG, but I don't
Speaker 1: think you can get the gassiness of ogkb and the
Speaker 1: potency with just purkle or with just like an urkle type.
Speaker 1: You can get the mutation, you most necessarily get the
Speaker 1: gassy and all that stuff with that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I look at it and I see the structure
Speaker 4: and like the leaf to bud ratio where it's like
Speaker 4: basically just like a two little leaves that are at
Speaker 4: the base of the bud and then it's all flower
Speaker 4: above that. That is like the modern structure that I see.
Speaker 4: And I think all of that comes from OG, from
Speaker 4: my own breedings with it, and it's it's the number
Speaker 4: one thing that gets past Even if you missed by
Speaker 4: a mile on the turps, you still end up with
Speaker 4: that structure and that look.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, Yeah, It's just a major component of what
Speaker 1: we're talking about. I just don't think you have it
Speaker 1: without the OG essentially.
Speaker 3: Nice. Well, coming up, we have we have another cut,
Speaker 3: or at least not the name that we've covered quite
Speaker 3: a bit as.
Speaker 1: Sub I'll let you run with this one, Dan.
Speaker 3: And I guess it's like, yeah, which, sure of what
Speaker 3: are we talking about? I guess you can go into
Speaker 3: that too.
Speaker 4: I only talk about sunset when I talk about sherb
Speaker 4: because in my opinion, it's the main one that matters,
Speaker 4: like the whole green sherb thing and skittles and all
Speaker 4: that is. It's fun to talk about, but like Sunset
Speaker 4: SRB to me was like the first one that was
Speaker 4: like a really really good cash crop plant that came
Speaker 4: out of all these lines and you could get great weight,
Speaker 4: great potency, a variety of aromas from creamy to like
Speaker 4: pure fuel on the same cut. And I have pictures
Speaker 4: from some grows that I did of it in I
Speaker 4: think twenty seventeen that are just like whole rooms just
Speaker 4: filled with Donkey dick buds just swaying in the fans.
Speaker 4: And I'd love that plant. I wish I still had it,
Speaker 4: But as far as like what it's made of, Like
Speaker 4: I don't really believe the story of O. G. Cush
Speaker 4: pink panties. I mean, we've seen that picture of pink
Speaker 4: panties now that we've passed around to each other, and
Speaker 4: I maybe I could see it, but it's a it's
Speaker 4: so purple.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, like it's a turd bro Yeah, turn
Speaker 1: it's not. It's airy again herm prone turns like no
Speaker 1: resin production.
Speaker 4: And the whole this can kind of go into the
Speaker 4: last one too, of the pink panties, like Bookoo conversation.
Speaker 4: It's like, I don't see how you could like cross
Speaker 4: a Burmese to an og and have that plant in
Speaker 4: one hybrid. I just don't think it's possible because the
Speaker 4: Burmese would be like a twenty week flowering like equatorial
Speaker 4: Southeast Asian sativa. And so maybe something went around called
Speaker 4: Burmese at that point and they crossed it to an Og,
Speaker 4: but I don't It looks way more like it's some
Speaker 4: sort of like an f one Derb derivative to me.
Speaker 1: There was a Burmese that Referman passed around that was
Speaker 1: predominantly like Afghani like. It obviously was not a you know,
Speaker 1: high Bermese land race at Pliny Stretch. Yeah, close enough, though, right,
Speaker 1: I could definitely see that being Buku. It was also
Speaker 1: very harm prone. But there was a line from Vancouver
Speaker 1: called the Black Burmese that was definitely super purple, definitely
Speaker 1: super herm prone and using reform. I'm pretty sure it's
Speaker 1: Refermand's Burmese. I don't know if he got it from
Speaker 1: the dude to Vic or they traded it or one
Speaker 1: came from the other, but I'm betting it's the same one.
Speaker 1: And God it was trash and that's the only thing
Speaker 1: I could see with pink panties was Sure. My biggest
Speaker 1: problem with it is there's a scent in sherb that
Speaker 1: goes through every single thing that has sherb in it.
Speaker 1: I can always smell it, and it's it's a lot
Speaker 1: of it's pretty smelling, but it's like a peppery note
Speaker 1: that I don't like. And I don't ever really hear
Speaker 1: people mention it. But it's just like a it's so
Speaker 1: hard to explain.
Speaker 4: But it's it's like what Scotti has.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's but it's so prevalent in
Speaker 1: everything that sherb is touched that is I just I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I just never liked it. It was one of those
Speaker 1: ones I can't like, like RS eleven has it, Like
Speaker 1: it's a big component RS eleven the stentth that I'm
Speaker 1: talking about. But some people love it, you know. It's
Speaker 1: just one of those personal subjective things.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's Sunset Sherb is also responsible for what I
Speaker 4: would say is like the majority of like the modern
Speaker 4: hype cuts at the moment, like jealousy and all that
Speaker 4: it's all from. Like Sure, Piscotti in crosses of one
Speaker 4: type or another, and so I think it's by far
Speaker 4: the best breeding out of all of them. Like, if
Speaker 4: you want pretty consistent plants that throw big buds that
Speaker 4: are purple, have these modern turt profiles, like, it's probably
Speaker 4: the one you actually want to use. I don't think
Speaker 4: using the gelatos. I haven't seen it really go anywhere
Speaker 4: besides making more gelato. Yeah, you know, same whereas like
Speaker 4: and same thing with sure but Sureb's just better. And
Speaker 4: so maybe like that one step removed farther back that
Speaker 4: makes it breed slightly better. I don't know, but I
Speaker 4: have not been a fan of breeding with gelato for
Speaker 4: really anything.
Speaker 3: Good segue because we were going to go into that,
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know if it's fatical that next generation,
Speaker 3: but gelato wedding cake, I don't know, Like you got
Speaker 3: the textonomy better than me.
Speaker 1: So wedding cake to me is it you know, like
Speaker 1: a lot of people lump that in with cookies, but
Speaker 1: to me, it's more of a triangle type of plant.
Speaker 1: You can find that turt profile that and to me,
Speaker 1: I just call cardboard turt profile. Some people think it
Speaker 1: was like creamy, you know, it as a creamy component,
Speaker 1: but I just think it's guard profile, And you know,
Speaker 1: everybody was shits on me because I naysay all this shit,
Speaker 1: but like I really don't like it's. To me, it's
Speaker 1: the one direction I would not want to take triangle.
Speaker 1: It's the midsy commercial version of triangle to me. And
Speaker 1: someone locked it in and called it wedding cake. I
Speaker 1: can't remember Jay Sleazy something like his name's one of
Speaker 1: those names. I'm not really so into it.
Speaker 4: I spent a lot of time trying to like map
Speaker 4: this stuff with the last job that I had, because
Speaker 4: like I really wanted to see like what directions you
Speaker 4: could go down by like mixing and matching some of
Speaker 4: these cuts, and like the there is like a very
Speaker 4: big gap between like where everyone went with gelato and
Speaker 4: the Sherb cuts, which I would consider more similar versus
Speaker 4: like the animal mints hybrids that Jabez made that's honestly
Speaker 4: kind of like its own side shoot and it's just
Speaker 4: as incestuous, you know what I mean, Like look up
Speaker 4: like ice cream cake to wedding cake to animal mints,
Speaker 4: Like it's all the same cut basically just reworked a
Speaker 4: thousand different ways, but they are separate lines. In my opinion,
Speaker 4: I think that wedding cake and Gelato are two different things.
Speaker 3: I just if you want to force to like, oh sorry,
Speaker 3: not good. I was gonna ask Dan, like, you know,
Speaker 3: he mentioned that like he could see these like broad
Speaker 3: distinctions across these broad groups. Like if you could, if
Speaker 3: you had to put words to those distinctions, what would
Speaker 3: they be?
Speaker 4: Do you think? Well, like wedding Cake, like Matt was
Speaker 4: shitting on, because like it was a seed line originally
Speaker 4: that was released, and so there's I've barely ever come
Speaker 4: across the same cut of wedding Cake twice, you know,
Speaker 4: same thing with Geloto thirty three. You know, it's just
Speaker 4: like I think it was originally a seed line that
Speaker 4: was released, or like maybe he did like a Gelato
Speaker 4: thirty three b X or something like that, and so great,
Speaker 4: my power's fluttering and so it. Uh what am I
Speaker 4: trying to say? It? Uh, there's just so many of them.
Speaker 4: I've had really nice cuts of wedding cake that I liked,
Speaker 4: that I bred with, and but it's just one of
Speaker 4: those things that wedding cake is creamy, huge buds, some purple,
Speaker 4: not always potency is same thing, and they're honestly, just
Speaker 4: like flavors of the same thing or the same family,
Speaker 4: but that they were taken in separate directions and then
Speaker 4: ran with you know what I mean, Like wedding cake
Speaker 4: doesn't have in those lines. They don't really have a
Speaker 4: lot of overcross back into gelatto until you get to
Speaker 4: ice cream cake, because that's like wedding cake tens Jely
Speaker 4: thirty three. I'm pretty sure. And actually I loved ice
Speaker 4: cream cake. I thought it was a good cut. It
Speaker 4: is a good cash cropper or made me some money
Speaker 4: over a few years, and so it's not something that
Speaker 4: I miss that I now that I don't have it,
Speaker 4: but I smoked it. Ever, I kind of look at
Speaker 4: the three main categories as like the sherb gelato's, the
Speaker 4: green sherb skittles, and then the animal mince wedding cake stuff.
Speaker 4: Those are like the three main groupings in my mind
Speaker 4: that you can actually like map out as separate.
Speaker 1: For me, like wedding cake, the way I look at
Speaker 1: wedding cake is the dead end of triangle, whereas gelato
Speaker 1: would be the dead end of arkle triangle. To me,
Speaker 1: like that, once you hit that point, like you can
Speaker 1: make a whole bunch more wedding cake type stuff and
Speaker 1: name it whatever you want, it's always gonna be very
Speaker 1: similar to wedding cake. And I think that's what ninety
Speaker 1: nine percent of the market is, is either the dead
Speaker 1: end of gelato. And once you've got to that, it's
Speaker 1: almost like having a tripinelane haze. Once you get there,
Speaker 1: you can't really wipe it out that well. You could try,
Speaker 1: but it's always going to be there. I mean, I
Speaker 1: was trying to do it with blue bonnet and wedding
Speaker 1: cake and it's just to me, it just made like
Speaker 1: a mack creamy commercial blue bonnet. It was not novel
Speaker 1: unique and it when you start inbreeding, you start backcrossing
Speaker 1: and not knowing what you're doing. That's kind of where
Speaker 1: you're gonna end up, in my opinion, or or bad
Speaker 1: seeds of bag seeds of bag seeds of bag seeds
Speaker 1: in the same direction like gelato.
Speaker 3: So you're essentially in like a genetic cul de sac
Speaker 3: at that point, right.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's the best way to put all this. Like
Speaker 1: I always say, it's like a shit rereading dead end,
Speaker 1: but a genetic cul de sac is probably a nicer
Speaker 1: way of putting it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, and so really the question I'm just paraphrasing
Speaker 3: you is like, why like there is no real value
Speaker 3: to taking those things any further with those constraints, right.
Speaker 4: Well, and what you end up seeing, what you end
Speaker 4: up seeing nowadays is that people take things from outside
Speaker 4: these lines or from like more basal regions, and then
Speaker 4: they try and reflavor it while keeping the look, the structure,
Speaker 4: the trim ability like all that. And so they're like, well,
Speaker 4: now we've got cherry gelato, Now we've got z flavored
Speaker 4: you know what I mean with Runt's kind of thing.
Speaker 4: And it's all still the same shit, whether you throw
Speaker 4: a little you know, like you're saying, like a blue bonnet, like,
Speaker 4: oh yeah, blueberry gelato.
Speaker 1: Now yeah it's.
Speaker 4: But it's still midzi and it's still like has all
Speaker 4: the problems, and you can't take it further really because
Speaker 4: like you start ending up with all these negative traits
Speaker 4: like the little aborted seed pods, yes that are in.
Speaker 4: They're in everywhere in these lines, like you can't get
Speaker 4: away from them. And so like if you hybridize like
Speaker 4: a bunch of gelato and skills together like or a
Speaker 4: permanent marker skittles, whatever, these crosses you want to make together,
Speaker 4: you end up losing like fifty percent of it to
Speaker 4: a lot of these negative traits. Even if it's good smoke,
Speaker 4: it's usually the best cut too, where you're like, oh,
Speaker 4: this smells good, this has actually got some potency to it,
Speaker 4: and you grind it up and there's like a million
Speaker 4: little aborted seeds in your you know, little pile of weed.
Speaker 4: And so it just depends on if that's like a
Speaker 4: deal breaker for you, I guess or not. But it's
Speaker 4: not something I want to see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I just I just wish that people
Speaker 1: would do more novel stuff than like gelato runs gelato
Speaker 1: og gelato gelato, you know, like and it and to me,
Speaker 1: just the that's ninety nine percent of the market. That's
Speaker 1: what people have been told that they want is buds
Speaker 1: that look just like this. And that's what I mean
Speaker 1: to me, that's what compound was it Gelotto Gelatto and
Speaker 1: just ran with it and it's still being run with
Speaker 1: It's I just it's people. The reason I really really
Speaker 1: dislike it just from a breeding perspective, is because so
Speaker 1: much was dropped in place that was novel, unique, old,
Speaker 1: because the market was demanding so much of that crap
Speaker 1: that like, like I've been talking about, a lot of
Speaker 1: breeders are asking me, hey, do you know where I
Speaker 1: can get a good og cut? Because there's no there's
Speaker 1: not a lot of og cuts out there anymore, because
Speaker 1: people wanted gelato and demanded it so much that og
Speaker 1: just wasn't in demand. Bags wouldn't sell of og, And realistically,
Speaker 1: it costs money to keep moms of something that you
Speaker 1: cannot make money with. So it's either done out of
Speaker 1: like a sense of duty and a love for collecting,
Speaker 1: or monetary and if you don't have all three in
Speaker 1: some cases, it's just not gonna fly. And it seems
Speaker 1: like that's what's going on, and it's it's hype at
Speaker 1: its finest, marketing at its finest and easiest and sheepish
Speaker 1: to me, And people are getting so mad that I
Speaker 1: say that, But it's it's all I know.
Speaker 3: Another phrase comes to mind to me, which is that
Speaker 3: these again paraphrasing both of you, like these these names
Speaker 3: are just like all like false alternative the alternatives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the illusion that you're you're choosing between varying things,
Speaker 3: but actually you're not really choosing.
Speaker 2: At all, and I mean realistic with all the cookie stuff,
Speaker 2: like from day one, like none of this that didn't
Speaker 2: girl Skull Cookies doesn't smell like thin mint cookies, didn't
Speaker 2: tastes like thin mint cookies.
Speaker 1: Chocolate, you know, like Andy's mints. What the And and
Speaker 1: it just carried on whether you're talking about sherbet tasting
Speaker 1: like like orange sherbet. No, it doesn't like wedding cake
Speaker 1: to me, creamy? Yeah, is it sweet? Creamy battery? No?
Speaker 4: Like just it's marketing.
Speaker 1: It's marketing, and it's just so dishonest, and I don't
Speaker 1: know why. Like I specifically, I remember when Animal Cookies
Speaker 1: came out, and before I had it, there were a
Speaker 1: couple of gentlemen I don't remember who. They were talking
Speaker 1: about it and reviewing the bud and they're sitting the
Speaker 1: smell like, oh my god, this smells so much like
Speaker 1: animal crackers. Oh my god. I was like, God, damn,
Speaker 1: that would be fucking awesome animal cracker bud, Like that
Speaker 1: would be the shit. I like the smell animal crackers,
Speaker 1: And so it got really built up until I grabbed
Speaker 1: it and I was like this is not this is og,
Speaker 1: Like the fuck you know, like a lot of false
Speaker 1: promises get sold, but at some point that expectation was
Speaker 1: just wiped and people didn't have the expectation for a
Speaker 1: name to have anything to do with the scent, taste,
Speaker 1: or there's something psychosomatic going on where they're convincing themselves
Speaker 1: that yeah, it's totally animal crackers either way.
Speaker 4: Hard you can influence people's perception of aromas by the
Speaker 4: marketing of its naming and all that. You know, if
Speaker 4: you say, like, hey, this is you know, smells like cookies.
Speaker 4: People smell it and maybe they get some of that
Speaker 4: battery and and they're like, oh, yeah, it kind of
Speaker 4: does smell like cookies, And I'm like, what fucking cookie
Speaker 4: is that? You know what I mean? That's not chocolate
Speaker 4: chip man, that's not that's not peanut butter cookies. You know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: but it's like you really, like, you can influence people's
Speaker 4: perception of aroma very easily, and so like, when I
Speaker 4: want people's opinions on like what something smells like in
Speaker 4: a jar, I don't tell them anything because if I say, like,
Speaker 4: do you smell the line, They'll be like, yeah, actually
Speaker 4: I do, you know what I mean? Because your brain
Speaker 4: is filling it in, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you I think, when you experience a field
Speaker 3: of complexity and noise, it's very easy to project things
Speaker 3: onto it. Kind of like looking at clouds right daydreaming
Speaker 3: and pant clouds and stuff, and your brain goes, oh,
Speaker 3: do you see you you see the like battleship and
Speaker 3: you're like, yeah, I can see that, and it's like yeah, sure, Yeah.
Speaker 4: The human mind is very malleable in our like perception
Speaker 4: of reality. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, some people have it worse than others. I guess.
Speaker 1: I don't know. You have to have a certain certain
Speaker 1: sense of skepticism to get past that. I think, like
Speaker 1: just be an inherently skeptical person to not have your
Speaker 1: mind made up before you something.
Speaker 4: I guess yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean my name is Dan, like yeah, if if
Speaker 3: my if my patn has brought us some new coffee,
Speaker 3: I'm not I don't want to read the bag because
Speaker 3: it's going to say that its apricot strawberry, you know whatever.
Speaker 3: I want to try for myself and then see what
Speaker 3: they said about it afterwards, just so I can compare.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: It's like yeah, otherwise it is too easy. I can't
Speaker 3: imagine those things too easily.
Speaker 1: Either you're the kid that sniffs your friend's finger when
Speaker 1: he says smell my finger, or you're not. That's what
Speaker 1: it comes down to.
Speaker 4: Well, and like most of the time without any inform
Speaker 4: Like that's why I love showing my wife weed because
Speaker 4: like she's just like, yeah, smells good. And that's like
Speaker 4: how I am with most things. If it's like if
Speaker 4: I'm smelling a bag of coffee, I'm not thinking about
Speaker 4: like all the other things that could possibly smell like
Speaker 4: or taste. Like I'm like, oh, yeah, smells good. And
Speaker 4: you make a cup and you're like, yeah, it tastes
Speaker 4: pretty fucking good. But yeah, then you you read the
Speaker 4: bag and you fill in like oh yeah, notes of
Speaker 4: caramel and you know, like yeah, all the things, and
Speaker 4: like suddenly your brain's like, oh yeah, yeah, for sure,
Speaker 4: I tasted.
Speaker 1: That the Starbucks gram Cracker coffee really does taste like
Speaker 1: Graham crackers.
Speaker 4: Then well yeah, because they probably puriod some fucking gram
Speaker 4: crackers in it.
Speaker 1: So good. I'm glad to be able to drink coffee again.
Speaker 1: That was a long time I couldn't drink coffee without puking.
Speaker 4: Yeah, dude, I'm there. I have more than one cup.
Speaker 1: I'm like, what, yeah, for a while.
Speaker 3: So was it worth us talking? I mean, you guys
Speaker 3: already get you know, reference permanent Mocker and jealousy. Is
Speaker 3: it Is it worth talking that though? Is at all?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Go ahead, Dan, Yeah, I've bred with them in
Speaker 4: the past year, like pretty extensively with the last place
Speaker 4: I was working with. And Permanent Marker I think is
Speaker 4: actually some pretty good smoke. It's not something I would
Speaker 4: take to a desert island with me, but it's like
Speaker 4: good variety because it takes that like sherb Ani profile
Speaker 4: and it's just like cranked up, you know, and it's
Speaker 4: not that potent, but it's just it's really really amazing flavor.
Speaker 4: Like I think I sent I sent someone on the
Speaker 4: server a couple bags of like I think it was
Speaker 4: a skills s one permanent marker, and a few other
Speaker 4: things I can't remember at the top of my head.
Speaker 4: And even he agreed, he was just like, the permanent
Speaker 4: marker is like even compared to the skills, it's like
Speaker 4: a very similar profile. It like has elements of the
Speaker 4: same thing. It's just like turned up to eleven. And
Speaker 4: so I thought it was really nice.
Speaker 1: It was the first like cookies directional thing that I'd
Speaker 1: smoked a long time. I was like, oh, I kind
Speaker 1: of actually fucking like this. Yeah, tolerance park, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like that quick cookies build up of
Speaker 1: a tolerance to where it just.
Speaker 4: You know, and you see it in that. You see
Speaker 4: it in the lab analysis too. It's like not a
Speaker 4: very diverse sample as far as like any accessory cannabinoids
Speaker 4: or like small amounts of different terpenes that you look at.
Speaker 4: It's it's kind of just like cool, and it breeds.
Speaker 4: They all breed very dominantly because they've been so like
Speaker 4: inadvertently linebred by multiple different people over the last you know,
Speaker 4: fifteen years, and so Permanent Marker is very much like
Speaker 4: RS eleven and that like not that they breed the same,
Speaker 4: but that they're very consistent in their structures that they pass.
Speaker 4: You'll see like when I cross Permanent Marker, everything looked
Speaker 4: like Permanent Marker, and it just depended on whether the
Speaker 4: the other plant had like a more dominant aroma profile
Speaker 4: or something. So like I was crossing it to some
Speaker 4: fruit punch type stuff and the fruit punch just always
Speaker 4: came through and it looked exactly like permanent marker, and
Speaker 4: I was like, this is fucking boring. Same thing with
Speaker 4: RS eleven. RS eleven does like like a nice gelato structure,
Speaker 4: and then these like thin little finger buds that are
Speaker 4: just like, you know, a small collection of klyx is
Speaker 4: just like stacked on each other, and it was all
Speaker 4: garbage in my opinion. I looked at it and I
Speaker 4: was just like, oh, let me take notes on another
Speaker 4: fucking plant that's exactly like the last one. And they're
Speaker 4: very predictable. And that's what I don't think people get
Speaker 4: is that these things may be massive polyhybrids, but they've
Speaker 4: polyhybrids with the same base components and so things actually
Speaker 4: do get fairly fixed over time. And it's usually the
Speaker 4: bad stuff and pretty looks, you know, low potency pretty
Speaker 4: looks some a lot of cardboard terps, but they're very
Speaker 4: consistent in what they do, like RS eleven, like unless
Speaker 4: you cross it to something like a bully, like a
Speaker 4: train wreck or a blue dream or something like that.
Speaker 4: Like I can tell you exactly the breakdown of like
Speaker 4: the types of expressions you're likely to see because it
Speaker 4: is so consistent, but it's consistently bad, like the really
Speaker 4: nice clones that get pulled out of these hybrids are
Speaker 4: the exception to the rule. So when you buy these
Speaker 4: seeds and you're like, oh, it's you know, zap times
Speaker 4: this or that, Like you're gonna find mostly trash, and
Speaker 4: like you may be the one that gets lucky that
Speaker 4: finds like a really nice tasting one or one that
Speaker 4: has some unusual potency for the line, but they rarely
Speaker 4: all line up in one, you know, Like I'll run
Speaker 4: fifty to one hundred seeds of some of that stuff
Speaker 4: and just be like, oh my god, why can't I
Speaker 4: find one that has the looks, the potency and the aroma.
Speaker 4: They're all segregated in different combinations and I cannot find
Speaker 4: them together, and it's really frustrating work to do.
Speaker 1: And low population breeding, what are they other than just inbreeding?
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's just low population pops bags of
Speaker 1: low population pops.
Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. Like things can get fixed in invertally
Speaker 4: and be kind of like bread quote unquote completely unintentionally,
Speaker 4: and you can have traits that get fixed, you know,
Speaker 4: and some of them can be good and some of
Speaker 4: them are bad.
Speaker 1: I just like the reason it made me think of
Speaker 1: that was like DJ's Blueberry, Like, I always go back
Speaker 1: to that. Almost all of my thoughts on stuff like
Speaker 1: that are what I've seen in blueberry from a low
Speaker 1: population playing around type situation where you know, it was
Speaker 1: three plants in a room, one herms on the other,
Speaker 1: or one one pollinates two other ones. You mix up
Speaker 1: the seeds and then for the next four years you
Speaker 1: cross the sativa type to the indica type, so you're
Speaker 1: inbreeding small population even though it just and it turns
Speaker 1: into variant. But in bread low floor, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you can fix it. It's very easy to fix
Speaker 1: throughout crossing to the right thing. But not everybody does that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, And like I at this point, I really
Speaker 4: like like for like the future of this kind of stuff,
Speaker 4: Like I don't really think there is one. It's like
Speaker 4: what hasn't been crossed to one of these cookies things
Speaker 4: like what are we really gonna find? Like I've done
Speaker 4: it where I like take a nice cut of blue
Speaker 4: Dream and work it into some of these lines and like,
Speaker 4: you know what, it's all trash. The best ones are
Speaker 4: always like oh yeah, it's like basically blue Dream. Yeah,
Speaker 4: the best ones like flavoring, you know, yeah, but like
Speaker 4: I don't think that there's anything you can like cross
Speaker 4: to this stuff to really make it new and exciting
Speaker 4: for me at least, like I've just seen a lot
Speaker 4: of it, and the farther back you go, the better.
Speaker 4: It is not forward at all.
Speaker 3: And so I had a question originally that was like, oh,
Speaker 3: how do you know quote unquote fakes will counterpoint it,
Speaker 3: But I think he.
Speaker 1: Saw you saw a good example of them trying to
Speaker 1: do this using Body's Congolese cashmere, Like, yeah, that's more
Speaker 1: like unique and wild than the Congo cash I got
Speaker 1: to run it, you know, so I got to see
Speaker 1: what it was like. It was unique. But even in
Speaker 1: doing that, I've not heard of anything like insanely amazing
Speaker 1: coming from it. And that's not just shot on body
Speaker 1: because he's fucking amazing guy doing cool shit. It's just
Speaker 1: that's where cookies was at.
Speaker 4: I think, Yeah, And like what they end up wanting
Speaker 4: is because like I've been in these rooms, on these
Speaker 4: breeding panels where like you do the work and then
Speaker 4: someone else gets to pick through.
Speaker 1: It and shit and like catchmuck.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, and like you do the work, you try
Speaker 4: and make something new and unusual, and you know what
Speaker 4: they do, they pick the one that's most like the
Speaker 4: modern parent, and it'll be the worst cut out of
Speaker 4: all of it. You're just like, that's trash. I didn't
Speaker 4: even want to show you that jar, but I had
Speaker 4: to because of the way this works, and like like
Speaker 4: why did you pick that? And then they want to
Speaker 4: breed with it afterwards, and they're like, look at this
Speaker 4: new thing we made, and it's just not true. It's
Speaker 4: all it's all trash, most of it at least, And
Speaker 4: like maybe you can find something that has like a
Speaker 4: novel aroma, but most of the time it's just like
Speaker 4: a jacked aroma for one of the parents, and then
Speaker 4: you added it to this structure and this like thing
Speaker 4: that people like. But I think people need to get
Speaker 4: away from that. It's like the structure of the weed
Speaker 4: like doesn't at all just because like if I need
Speaker 4: a seven gram jar to put an eighth in it
Speaker 4: because it's larfee, but it's really good, really nuanced, tasty weed.
Speaker 4: Like why does weed have to be rock little little rocks,
Speaker 4: little pebbles and dense, and like why does it have
Speaker 4: to be purple? And like why does it have to
Speaker 4: have this dessert name attached to it, and I think
Speaker 4: that people just don't even especially the younger people I
Speaker 4: talk to, like they don't even really know about like
Speaker 4: real diversity and weed. They think that they're looking at
Speaker 4: all these names permanent marker, sure jealousy, and they think
Speaker 4: that they're all these distinct things from each other, and
Speaker 4: they're just not at all. It's all marketing, and so
Speaker 4: like the way forward is to just like ask for
Speaker 4: new things, like actually new things. Maybe don't buy your
Speaker 4: weed from a dispensary if you have the option, you
Speaker 4: know what I mean, Because like there's a lot of
Speaker 4: people that still grow in their homes and in their
Speaker 4: backyards that don't give us shit about what's popular and
Speaker 4: what sells because it's just for them and their family
Speaker 4: and their friends. And that's the like move that I'm
Speaker 4: trying to do, is just like I'm going to grow
Speaker 4: things that I like, make things that I like, and
Speaker 4: then I'm going to find the people that jibe with that.
Speaker 4: You know, I don't care about making sales and like
Speaker 4: growing something that's guaranteed to make me sales because at
Speaker 4: the end of the day, I'm not a one trick pony.
Speaker 4: I don't like need to make money. Off of weed.
Speaker 4: It's just nice to like do the work and feel
Speaker 4: rewarded at the same time, or like have it not
Speaker 4: just like cost you money for having this like very
Speaker 4: life consuming hobby. Yeah, but yeah, we need to get
Speaker 4: away from this like fixation on color and density, and
Speaker 4: I think that would solve most of the problems. You know,
Speaker 4: you can still cross GDP into other weird stuff and
Speaker 4: like some of these more basal components and get really
Speaker 4: interesting weed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is more or less where I wanted to
Speaker 3: where I wanted us to conclude, which is maybe just
Speaker 3: for fun speculating or reflecting on what those possibilities are,
Speaker 3: even like for example, whether it's we talked about different
Speaker 3: Erkle org hybrids earlier on but even like thinking, okay,
Speaker 3: in an alternate his in an alternate like timeline where
Speaker 3: instead of erkle there was bluebonnet, Like what would that?
Speaker 3: What would have happened?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: Yeah, or any other thing that's like equally distinctive to.
Speaker 1: Trolley to trolley. Double purple doja was a big one
Speaker 1: during like the the late two thousands. Double purple doja
Speaker 1: based on BlackBerry or BlackBerry widow whatever. They were really
Speaker 1: using a lot of that stuff is so different and
Speaker 1: far removed from what oracle types are. There could have
Speaker 1: been a lot of novel cool shit done with that,
Speaker 1: like even sub cool. As much as much as people
Speaker 1: know my contentious relationship with a human being was when
Speaker 1: he was around double purple Doja was insane, Like it
Speaker 1: was basically a purple like a BlackBerry version of Apollo thirteen.
Speaker 1: And we don't really see a lot of a Hall
Speaker 1: of Thirteen types anymore, especially now that the TGA is
Speaker 1: temporarily gone, but we're gonna see a resurgent soon. But uh,
Speaker 1: like that was cool. That was way different than any
Speaker 1: of the cookie stuff, and you still got like the
Speaker 1: novel purple, maybe not as much leaf Resin. Maybe it
Speaker 1: wasn't garted as much to bubble hash. And that's another
Speaker 1: part of it, is like people just see Resin and
Speaker 1: they think, oh, hash Bro, you know, yank it. But
Speaker 1: you got the colors, you've got unique terps, you've got
Speaker 1: really potent highs. In many cases, chitrolley has very similar,
Speaker 1: beautiful magenta colors, and it's just so far out of
Speaker 1: the realm of what people are using today. You know,
Speaker 1: a base Pakistani, which is essentially, you know, very similar
Speaker 1: to an Afghani, slightly different elevations. That could take things
Speaker 1: in so many different directions.
Speaker 3: Just randomly as well, Like even if you kept Erkele,
Speaker 3: like why it would be like to not use og
Speaker 3: right like we've seen we've seen erkle ken d yes,
Speaker 3: Dog's waltz. Is that it is? That's nice, I mean
Speaker 3: loosely trace dogs. Sorry, so not exactly, but you know,
Speaker 3: like that that even that it's quite different and quite interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, dude, that's a lot of people's favorite cut.
Speaker 1: It's a cool it's a cool cut. Rkle what I did,
Speaker 1: like an GDP bubble berry that was really unique back
Speaker 1: in the day. It was one of my very first crosses.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different things you could do with
Speaker 1: GP andle, even like an arkle tie, like you know,
Speaker 1: like the like the like banana ti or the juicy
Speaker 1: for tie that was in banana tie across the arkle
Speaker 1: be insane. It would be really really neat two totally
Speaker 1: different types. It's not just it's like to me, erkle
Speaker 1: wasn't the problem. It was really not not sinkers. Everybody
Speaker 1: trying to do the same thing and capitalize on the
Speaker 1: same thing really easily. Like for me, cookies was very
Speaker 1: easy to grow. It made everyone look like they could
Speaker 1: grow really well because you it grew itself, you know,
Speaker 1: and that in itself made everybody start growing it too, Like, oh,
Speaker 1: I look like a rock star. Look how frosty this is.
Speaker 1: I'm a dank grower. Bro I can feed this nitrogen
Speaker 1: like a tomato all the time and it still blows
Speaker 1: up frosty. Yeah, there's so many different directions and people
Speaker 1: were just so sheepish. I hate it in general.
Speaker 3: I realized that when I was asking alternative cookies, I e.
Speaker 3: Like the rest of breeding, yeah, I mean they're anything, Yeah, just.
Speaker 4: A small niche even outside of cookies. Though, if you
Speaker 4: really think about it, it's like people think that nowadays,
Speaker 4: people would think breeding with og is probably original, and
Speaker 4: I'm like, once again, like what hasn't been cross? Yeah,
Speaker 4: I can't think of a single thing, you know, And
Speaker 4: so like, if you look back, we're actually still just
Speaker 4: using the pieces from previous hype eros where it's like
Speaker 4: the purple cuts and the ogs and then now all
Speaker 4: the modern stuff, and so like that's the only thing
Speaker 4: I really care about nowadays is stuff that predates almost
Speaker 4: all of it, yeah, because the rest of it's already
Speaker 4: been done, and it was done well a lot of
Speaker 4: the times too, and like you're probably not going to
Speaker 4: have the same access to the versions of the cuts
Speaker 4: that the people that did it really well when it
Speaker 4: was around did, And so I just look for nineties
Speaker 4: WED now, you know.
Speaker 1: I want to super skunk everything like yeah, right, next thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But to me also like that that's almost like a
Speaker 1: little bit like souring and everything up or like hemming
Speaker 1: everything up or oging everything up. I think there's it's
Speaker 1: the same component in all those three that give it
Speaker 1: like the soapiness sometimes when you explore the s ones
Speaker 1: in different directions. So it's really not that novel or unique,
Speaker 1: but it's taking a step back to where you can
Speaker 1: see all the other components that are in those things
Speaker 1: and then stuff that you've never seen.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see where
Speaker 4: everyone goes because it's like it's so standardized now, you know,
Speaker 4: like things only get selected when they grow a certain
Speaker 4: way and they flower in a certain timeframe, and they
Speaker 4: respond to nutrients that everyone uses the same, no, and
Speaker 4: so like like what we've seen now is and I
Speaker 4: think it's already there is like like we're all drinking Budweiser, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like it doesn't matter where
Speaker 4: you buy it from, and like it can have all
Speaker 4: kinds of different names, but it's really the distinction between
Speaker 4: like bud mg D Miller, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: Like it's like all the same cheap shitty beer. It's
Speaker 4: all the same cheap shitty weed. And it's grown with
Speaker 4: no love and like a lot of times because of
Speaker 4: the way testing standards work, you would be appalled to
Speaker 4: look in the rooms that these big companies with good
Speaker 4: reputations have and so yeah, there's just like it's it's terrifying,
Speaker 4: like people that actually love this and actually care about
Speaker 4: what they consume and what they give to other people,
Speaker 4: like you would all hate to see where it's gone.
Speaker 4: And they can spin it whatever the way they want
Speaker 4: with their marketing. But there's a lot of really horrendous
Speaker 4: things that you'll see in a modern grow nowadays, and
Speaker 4: the absolute lack of caring. The only thing that matters
Speaker 4: is the schedule. Yep. It doesn't matter what the plant wants,
Speaker 4: what would make it excel, what would make it a
Speaker 4: better product. It doesn't matter there's a schedule to meet,
Speaker 4: there's pounds that need to be fit, like shipped out
Speaker 4: on this date to these people, and it's the Beaster
Speaker 4: Era all over again, just with fancy new packaging.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot more money involved, a lot more corporate money, involved,
Speaker 1: a lot more chads. And that's only different. Yeah that's
Speaker 1: the way I see it too, brother.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a sad time for commercial weed. But once again,
Speaker 4: just don't buy, Like if you have the opportunity, like,
Speaker 4: don't buy weed from a shop, Like, if you have
Speaker 4: the opportunity with your backyard or your garage or whatever,
Speaker 4: like grow some plants for yourself, like even on your
Speaker 4: first go with some some plants or some seeds that
Speaker 4: you can buy commercially or as a as a homegrower,
Speaker 4: Like you're probably gonna like that weed so much more
Speaker 4: than what you're paying forty to sixty dollars and eight
Speaker 4: that a store.
Speaker 1: For most people would be surprised with what they can do.
Speaker 4: For sure.
Speaker 1: It made you look very inaccessible, you know, like seeing
Speaker 1: all these like ninety lighters, two hundred lighters, it looks
Speaker 1: really inaccessible. It looks really expensive, but uh it's not.
Speaker 1: There's there's better there's there's ways to do it small
Speaker 1: and efficient and better out of controls.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, just little.
Speaker 3: You don't have enough space you need to see micro.
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, man. Like or if you like live in
Speaker 4: an illegal state still or an illegal portion of the
Speaker 4: world like people do it, Man, you're even.
Speaker 1: More lucky, like real, like you're more lucky because then
Speaker 1: you could get some some some money for your shit,
Speaker 1: make it worth it, you know.
Speaker 3: Also like yeah, I mean I'm not you know, you
Speaker 3: guys know I'm not in that.
Speaker 5: I'm not advocating doing lit by the way, Oh no,
Speaker 5: I am nobody so remote, like we don't really expose
Speaker 5: it even like those market pressures though, those weird demands
Speaker 5: like yeah.
Speaker 4: No for sure, and those are those are where the
Speaker 4: pockets of diversity usually thrive, is where there isn't the
Speaker 4: substantial market pressure and like and what the last frontier
Speaker 4: in America is that the home grower, you know, and
Speaker 4: so like we all need to keep keep going with this,
Speaker 4: and so I don't know, maybe there's some opportunity to
Speaker 4: like form just like we'd appreciation groups in your community
Speaker 4: kind of thing where it's just like hey, like it
Speaker 4: doesn't cost you anything to be a part of it,
Speaker 4: or it's a very small fee like on a Patreon
Speaker 4: thing or a Discord thing, and just like, hey, we
Speaker 4: all meet up in person, we share jars, we talk
Speaker 4: about weed, we all love it. Maybe a little clone
Speaker 4: swap here and there, but like we need to get
Speaker 4: back to more grassroots methods like that and just like
Speaker 4: community based stuff, because if we just give it away
Speaker 4: to the corporations, they're going to make you pay more
Speaker 4: than full price. Like I don't remember paying sixty dollars
Speaker 4: for an eighth at a shop during the two fifteen era,
Speaker 4: Like they were there, you know what I mean, there
Speaker 4: was a few, but it's like, by the end of
Speaker 4: the two fifteen era, you could get fucking thirty five
Speaker 4: dollars eights the top shelf anywhere in California and it
Speaker 4: was absolutely killer diversity, just anything you could want. You
Speaker 4: could go into a shop and pick from one hundred jars.
Speaker 4: And how did we got from there in a short
Speaker 4: number of years to basically all the same weed with
Speaker 4: different marketing packaging, you know, and it's all full price
Speaker 4: more so than when it was illegal, even though it's
Speaker 4: more overproduced than ever. Like it just doesn't add up
Speaker 4: to me, I call bullshit like artificiality.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, but like this is what I keep
Speaker 1: trying to drive home in all these episodes, Like you
Speaker 1: vote with your dollars, You literally vote with your dollars.
Speaker 1: There is it trying to explain to people that there's
Speaker 1: maybe like seven or eight people on earth with these
Speaker 1: big collections with good provenance on these clones that's shrinking
Speaker 1: so fast. You're having to make hard fucking choices. And
Speaker 1: if you keep, if you if you're ever interested in
Speaker 1: smoking something that's not cookies or gilanto, if you're if
Speaker 1: you're you know, one of those people who doesn't just
Speaker 1: follow the straight line like Bote with your dollars, that's it,
Speaker 1: it's all left and if you don't, it'll be gone.
Speaker 1: And that's that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And what sucks is that like the kind of
Speaker 4: connoisseur part portion of the American weed market is heady
Speaker 4: bros who buy expensive fucking dab torches and puff cos
Speaker 4: and shit, and like they love the newest, greatest drop
Speaker 4: from fucking compound and fucking whoever else, like whoever the
Speaker 4: big name of the day is, you know, yeah, their own.
Speaker 4: Like I don't understand how the connoisseur portion of the
Speaker 4: market is run by people who love the most midzy
Speaker 4: shit possible, even if it's grown. Well, it's just like, well, dude,
Speaker 4: that's not that great a weed. Like, yeah, it was tasty,
Speaker 4: but like, like I want to get fucked up. Like
Speaker 4: I think people forgot that the point of this is
Speaker 4: to not smoke weed all day and not get high.
Speaker 4: It's like, no, I want to take one bong rip
Speaker 4: and like sit down for four hours and like forget
Speaker 4: about like the hard ship in my life. And you
Speaker 4: know what I mean, Like that's like what I go for,
Speaker 4: at least with weed. I don't want to have to
Speaker 4: get up five times during a movie to go re
Speaker 4: up again just to be high and like suspend disbelief
Speaker 4: and enjoy the show, you know.
Speaker 1: And so remember when exotics meant something from like another
Speaker 1: country that you couldn't get a hold of that was
Speaker 1: wild types, Yeah, now it means zaw Like yeah, defin cookies.
Speaker 3: Crafts, like the opposite, the opposite.
Speaker 1: Exactly for sure, smoking mirrors right in your face boom.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so like I don't know, Yeah, I hope
Speaker 4: people see through these games that people are playing to
Speaker 4: take your dollar out of your pocket and give you
Speaker 4: the dumpiest version of something possible for and then ask
Speaker 4: them to say thank you, you know, like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did want to prompt you both, So yeah,
Speaker 3: I think, you know, good, nice reflection on the state
Speaker 3: of the market at the end there, but I think
Speaker 3: we're also coming to an end regards to cookies. Was
Speaker 3: there anything else that either of you want to say
Speaker 3: about cookies? Potting thoughts, potting shots.
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, it's just like, it's not it's
Speaker 1: not what the last episode said. It was that we
Speaker 1: were really doing a good job of laying out like
Speaker 1: what it is and what it isn't and it kind
Speaker 1: of got crushed. So that's why we had to redo this.
Speaker 3: So a really great job by the way, I think.
Speaker 3: I think what we got this episode is yeah, more
Speaker 3: or less what I wanted last time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was the direction it was going.
Speaker 1: So hopefully, hopefully this will be a good marker for
Speaker 1: it for people to return to. Another thing is like
Speaker 1: I've read the comments every time we do a Cookies episode,
Speaker 1: there's cookie bros. Coming in calling me a fucking and
Speaker 1: all that shit. I was one of the first people
Speaker 1: using it and breeding with it, so like, while I
Speaker 1: don't enjoy it and love it, I have contributed to
Speaker 1: the problem and I'm very transparent about that. And I
Speaker 1: didn't realize I was doing it at the time. It
Speaker 1: took a while, but I get it, Like I get
Speaker 1: why some people like it because it's novel and new
Speaker 1: to them. But from a breeding person, I'm speaking about
Speaker 1: everything from a breeding perspective, and a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't understand that because they don't breed, they don't make seeds,
Speaker 1: they don't explore different lines. From a breeding perspective, it
Speaker 1: is a dead ass in and that's all there is
Speaker 1: to it. And whether they like it or not, I'm
Speaker 1: just to say it.
Speaker 4: Yep. That's all I have to say too, is that
Speaker 4: it's like we've got a mean, pretty but shitty girlfriend
Speaker 4: and it's time to dumper.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, you know.
Speaker 4: Like, so let's move on collectively as a market and
Speaker 4: you know, try and find some cool new shit because
Speaker 4: it's out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, very nice.
Speaker 1: Okay, Dan, you got anything you want to plug it all?
Speaker 4: Not really, I've got some things in the work so
Speaker 4: that I have planned out. I'm still stuck in this remodel
Speaker 4: behind me. Once I get out of here, and the
Speaker 4: next couple of weeks and get done and moved into
Speaker 4: this place. Then I can actually start working again and
Speaker 4: doing cool shit that isn't permanent marker hybrids.
Speaker 1: So I mean, do you even talked about it on
Speaker 1: the show that you're just doing your own thing now?
Speaker 4: No? I haven't. Yeah, No, I got land. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 4: I got dumped by the corporate bros. Uh Oh, well,
Speaker 4: I was too real. Apparently you're still.
Speaker 1: Too nice to like really pull weight on him. I
Speaker 1: still think it's flex him. But you know, that's.
Speaker 4: Always at the end of the day, man, like they've
Speaker 4: tarnished their own reputation. It's just gonna be fun watching
Speaker 4: them release stuff that I made for probably the next
Speaker 4: two plus years, you know. And so I've already heard
Speaker 4: a few murmurs from people that I know still work there,
Speaker 4: and they're like, oh, did you make this? This was
Speaker 4: fucking amazing, And I'm like, yeah, it's not like interesting
Speaker 4: to me, though none other work that I did there
Speaker 4: was interesting to me at all. And so I'm more
Speaker 4: stoked on the stuff that I have going now and
Speaker 4: some of the projects that I've planned for the near future.
Speaker 4: And so yeah, maybe maybe a seed line drop which
Speaker 4: I haven't done in years, and I don't know, we're
Speaker 4: still fiddling around with the reversal sprays and stuff. So
Speaker 4: we got to get back on track now that I've
Speaker 4: lost my workspace, but I have already built my new one,
Speaker 4: so it's just more time allocation thing.
Speaker 1: So I'm proud of how you handled it. I you know,
Speaker 1: like I've lost jobs where it's your livelihood. Whether you
Speaker 1: loved it or not, it's your livelihood and you have
Speaker 1: to make big changes. That you handled it like a
Speaker 1: fucking man.
Speaker 4: So proud you, Yeah, man, thank you.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 4: I mean I bought a house a month before I
Speaker 4: got fired zone, Yeah, and I got to keep spending
Speaker 4: money to like make it nice, you know. So it's
Speaker 4: like one of those things where it's just like yep.
Speaker 4: But luckily I've already gotten new work and out of
Speaker 4: the weed industry and so it's much more rewarding and
Speaker 4: I'm already happier. So all it matters, YEA, all right,
Speaker 4: what you got but couldn't have done it. I've gotten
Speaker 4: a lot of support from that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love you.
Speaker 4: I don't think I had too.
Speaker 3: Much to add. Yeah I am. By this point, Matt
Speaker 3: would have head and out. Well, Matt would have mentioned
Speaker 3: the ten k subscribers thing, so I just but in reality,
Speaker 3: when we're recording this, this has just happened. So a
Speaker 3: bit of you know, timey wimy stuff. Yeah, so still
Speaker 3: thinking about that. Still stoked about that. Very satisfying. I
Speaker 3: knew we would get there, of course, it was just
Speaker 3: a matter of wind. But yeah, I'm stoked about that.
Speaker 1: I wrote this really long, nice thing on Instagram, by
Speaker 1: the way, follow us at I think it's what is
Speaker 1: it the dot breeders dot syndicate. I believe that's the
Speaker 1: one that I have now or I'm sorry breeders dot
Speaker 1: syndicate dot podcast. God damn it. Yeah, we'll put in
Speaker 1: this description. Ig sniped our page because people obviously report
Speaker 1: us because what I say conflicts with their money making,
Speaker 1: and that's how it goes. You know, we lost everything
Speaker 1: that had to do with the podcast on there, but
Speaker 1: we do have the new one up. And uh I
Speaker 1: wrote about doing like a nice, you know, a cool
Speaker 1: contest to give away with everybody who's following on Instagram.
Speaker 1: Do something cool to you know, for the ten case
Speaker 1: subscribers on YouTube, do a contest there, and then one
Speaker 1: for the Patreon as well, something really cool for all
Speaker 1: our Patreon discord people just to celebrate, Like hitting ten
Speaker 1: k that was a big, big milestone. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean thousand was the driving part behind that. Like I
Speaker 1: that just seems so unrealistic when he first came in
Speaker 1: to like ten okay, bro, that'll be like nine years
Speaker 1: or whatever kick around from till then, you know, But
Speaker 1: so thank you for that.
Speaker 3: I just I did want to say, I think just
Speaker 3: quickly in the response to that, Like, I think when
Speaker 3: I started helping out, I just knew that all it
Speaker 3: had to do was keep going for a bit longer
Speaker 3: and it would work. I just kind of was fully
Speaker 3: confident that if we could still have some of our
Speaker 3: good people around us and still make the show it
Speaker 3: makes us more sustainable, that we would just get there.
Speaker 3: And I think we actually doubled the subs in six months.
Speaker 3: I think when I first started helping we were at
Speaker 3: like four or five k yep. And so yeah, I'm
Speaker 3: still pretty amazed that we got there in half a year.
Speaker 3: But I was also hoping that that's how long it
Speaker 3: would take.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, no, I mean, like a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't know, but I was ready to clock out,
Speaker 1: like on the whole show. It was done. I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not happy with the direction. I'm not happy with
Speaker 1: what's being said. I'm not saying anything. Wasn't just about me.
Speaker 1: It was just a lot of misinformation and I couldn't
Speaker 1: stop some of it. And I was done. I was
Speaker 1: really done. And without thousand the show wouldn't exist right now.
Speaker 1: And I could say that confidently, super confident. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have kept doing it. It would not be consistent. I was done,
Speaker 1: So that's why we're here.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and I will say as well, like I'm
Speaker 3: also just a proxy for people like Dan Local, Earn,
Speaker 3: Little Hill, Cush of the Giants, Peaches, you know, probably
Speaker 3: many other people that I've forgotten to mention, But you
Speaker 3: know everyone, everyone helped me too, you know, so and
Speaker 3: helped us, and so being able to get our friends
Speaker 3: on and help them support us was just huge as well.
Speaker 3: And I think once we made it more of a
Speaker 3: group effort, it just changed the vibe as well. Yeah,
Speaker 3: in a nice way.
Speaker 1: I think YE made it easier for me too, and
Speaker 1: it gave me a lot more hope for the future generations.
Speaker 4: Like I was.
Speaker 1: Jaded as hell, like it's really easy to get very
Speaker 1: jaded and stuck in your ways and like just being
Speaker 1: like I don't want to talk about new stuff, I
Speaker 1: don't want to meet new people. I don't trust anyone.
Speaker 1: Like it's all gone bad every time, and every time
Speaker 1: anything's grown, it went bad. So it's it's it's a
Speaker 1: nice surprise. It's been really awesome, a great experience. So yeah,
Speaker 1: with that for me, we have the sub Rob drop
Speaker 1: on Riot Seeds. For those of you who don't know,
Speaker 1: sub Rob is like one of the most legit dudes
Speaker 1: I know from ic Bag back in the days as
Speaker 1: Sandy of this finest him Gray Skull, his crew. You know,
Speaker 1: Sour Dub went through there, g G four went through
Speaker 1: there all the earliest shit. He did a release of
Speaker 1: the Super Silver Hayes ninety eight cut cross to Sour
Speaker 1: Dub and then a Skunk Dog s one across to
Speaker 1: sour Dub. We're calling the S S S S H
Speaker 1: Super Silver Hayes Cross to Cellar Dumb. We're calling it
Speaker 1: S S S d H why because we can. Sneitch
Speaker 1: named it the other one and what else we got
Speaker 1: we got packed doing a new Blue Dream drop soon
Speaker 1: and he's done it on his own page, So give
Speaker 1: him support, direct support. He's got him out right now,
Speaker 1: go check him out. What else is there? By that time,
Speaker 1: we should be having the Blueberry i X coming out
Speaker 1: fairly shortly after this episode airs. That's my proudest Blueberry
Speaker 1: work with the Blueberry IX stuff across. That's what it means.
Speaker 1: We took in another generation and I'm super stoked on it.
Speaker 1: I'm super stoked and I and I got to stoke
Speaker 1: someone else out who is a super blueberry head from
Speaker 1: Oregon and he didn't believe in any of that, but
Speaker 1: like it was really possible that this blueberry existed. And
Speaker 1: he's like, dude, I doubted you, and I am mind blown.
Speaker 1: So that that's the kind of shit that stokes me out.
Speaker 1: You know, you can bring something back to someone like
Speaker 1: that and have it be true breeding in a line
Speaker 1: where you can pop you know, seven seeds and they're
Speaker 1: all like that, you know, so that'll be out. I
Speaker 1: know there's more. I don't know the yeaeah oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's a lot more to come. The resurgence of TGA
Speaker 1: the Space Space Dude Crosses coming out probably around that
Speaker 1: time too that this airs or shortly thereafter, go check
Speaker 1: out Girt buy seeds. He's our homie out in Australia.
Speaker 1: We have lifted seeds California. It takes credit card. We
Speaker 1: have right Seek Europe, a very very trusted, good friend
Speaker 1: out in Europe for the people are having trouble getting
Speaker 1: seeds into Europe. What else do we got? We got
Speaker 1: my spray. Dan's got a spray soon that we're gonna
Speaker 1: be marketing somehow someway. What else do we got? I
Speaker 1: think that's mostly it. I don't know. Oh, go join
Speaker 1: our discord. The Patreon discord is where we all hang out.
Speaker 1: We shoot the ship, we watch fights together, we do
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff. It's it's pretty awesome. It's a
Speaker 1: great community. I bet some of some of the best
Speaker 1: friends that we have now there just by people coming
Speaker 1: in and hanging out and it's a safe space. And
Speaker 1: if people are assholes, we kick them out because that's
Speaker 1: how it rolls, even if they starting to kill me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's that, and h with that. You guys got anything else?
Speaker 4: Is that? It? No? That's a night for me.
Speaker 3: Thanks everyone, Thanks everyone.
Speaker 1: That's a love. Want to sit at the table with
Speaker 1: the syndicate check out our Patreon and our link tree
Speaker 1: or description below. Our merch side is officially live. We
Speaker 1: have all sorts of shirts, hoodies and goodies to sort
Speaker 1: you out, and shipping is super fast and most importantly,
Speaker 1: the quality is top notch. I've been saving old designs
Speaker 1: for years for this purpose, so please check it out.
Speaker 1: Syndicate here dot com. We also have an underground syndicate
Speaker 1: Discord where we get together and solve old strain history
Speaker 1: together daily. It's an amazing community of learning away from
Speaker 1: IG and it's an amazing resource for old catalogs and knowledge.
Speaker 1: We hope you join our union of breeders and growers.
Speaker 1: Come check it out.