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<v Speaker 1>It's Night Side with Dan Ray w BZY Constance Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Nor Griffith, thanks very much. Trevian Henderson is a stud

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<v Speaker 2>with Ohio State. He is a player, and my prediction

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<v Speaker 2>is that he will be the number one or two

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<v Speaker 2>running back for the Patriots this year. Those have done

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<v Speaker 2>well so far on their draft choices. I think Henderson's

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<v Speaker 2>the best pick of the second rod. I'm surprised he

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<v Speaker 2>lasted that long anyway. Always good to hear from Al

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<v Speaker 2>Griffith here on a Friday night. We're a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>after ten o'clock now and we're continuing on conversation and

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<v Speaker 2>reacting to a piece of legislation that has been filed

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<v Speaker 2>up on Beacon Hill. I certainly hope it doesn't pass.

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<v Speaker 2>My friend Harvey Silverglate and I are in disagreement on this,

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<v Speaker 2>but we had with us last hour. Dan Delaney. He

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<v Speaker 2>is a lobbyist up there, the Daniel Delaney of the

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<v Speaker 2>Delaney Policy Group, and he answered questions honestly and straightforward,

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<v Speaker 2>which is great. He and I. He knew that he

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<v Speaker 2>would that I would disagree with him. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>crazy to eliminate life without parole again. We eliminated the

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<v Speaker 2>death penalty based upon the argument that, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>if you unless you're absolutely sure, and I've tried to

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<v Speaker 2>narrow my view of the death penalty on it. I

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<v Speaker 2>would still support a death penalty if it's without a

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<v Speaker 2>scentilla of doubt. And I'm talking about something like the

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<v Speaker 2>Boston bombers, where there are aggravating circumstances. Boston bombers, the

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<v Speaker 2>Boston bomber number two, which is a perfect characterization of

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<v Speaker 2>the Boston bomber. We don't use his name, we just

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<v Speaker 2>call him number two, which he is. He has now

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<v Speaker 2>lived on the public dole from for whoever they came

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<v Speaker 2>here from, Dagaistan, god knows. But he's been incarcerated for

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<v Speaker 2>twelve years. I say that it's time for him to

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<v Speaker 2>be disposed of because again, there is no sintilla of

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<v Speaker 2>doubt of what he did, and there are no mitigating circumstances.

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<v Speaker 2>And there are some significant aggravating circumstances in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>the number of people who they killed, the innocent people

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<v Speaker 2>who were there just to watch the marathon on April fifteen,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty thirteen. But we're not talking about that. What they're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about now is getting rid of life without parole

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<v Speaker 2>because back they're twenty years ago, they were saying.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, these inmates, they're really afraid of life

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<v Speaker 3>without parole. They you know, they want the death penalty,

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<v Speaker 3>and they in fact, they all.

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<v Speaker 2>Try to avoid the death penalty. But that's neither hear

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<v Speaker 2>nor there. So it was used as a lever leverage

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<v Speaker 2>to eliminate the death penalty in Massachusetts, and now it's

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<v Speaker 2>being used to eliminate life without parole. And the toughest

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<v Speaker 2>sentence would be twenty five years with the possibility parole,

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<v Speaker 2>which of course means the family would have to go

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<v Speaker 2>to if they chose to the parole board hearings, they

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<v Speaker 2>would have to relive every twenty five years, and maybe

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<v Speaker 2>more often, because if you get a parle and you're

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<v Speaker 2>denying at twenty five, maybe they'll come. These guys have

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<v Speaker 2>nothing else to do. A file again, Let me get

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<v Speaker 2>a ride, Let me get a ride to the prole board.

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<v Speaker 2>I just tell you this, the progressives in Massachusetts are

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<v Speaker 2>running the state, and if they ran the state, this

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<v Speaker 2>is the way they would like to run the state

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<v Speaker 2>in Massachusetts. And my guest made the point, which is legitimate,

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<v Speaker 2>that deterrence, punishment, public safety well, they took away to Terrance.

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<v Speaker 2>In terms of the death penalty across the board, that's

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<v Speaker 2>number one, and then in terms of punishment. Now, what

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<v Speaker 2>they're saying is it's conceivable that someone could be somehow

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<v Speaker 2>restored after twenty five years. I don't think so. They

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<v Speaker 2>didn't give the person who they killed an didn't say

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<v Speaker 2>that the look, I'll be back and I'll kill you

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty five years, but you got twenty five years

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<v Speaker 2>left to live. Public safety, keep them locked up. Let's

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<v Speaker 2>go back to the call is the only will we

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<v Speaker 2>have one line at six one seven, two, five, four,

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<v Speaker 2>ten thirty and one line at six one seven. Gonna

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<v Speaker 2>go to Jim. Jim, you were next on night side.

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<v Speaker 4>Welcome and thanks for taking my call.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you I'm doing great, Jim. What's your take on this?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I've called in about this before, but I'll just

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<v Speaker 4>remind you the reason why you have to have l

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<v Speaker 4>WOP or the death penalty is because, and you already

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<v Speaker 4>said this, but a lot of these depraved people are

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<v Speaker 4>mobbed up with other deveaved people, and if they think

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<v Speaker 4>that there's any chance whatsoever that doing more crime or

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<v Speaker 4>killing more people will get their friend released early then

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<v Speaker 4>they will do just exactly that. So there has to

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<v Speaker 4>be certain people.

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<v Speaker 2>Give me an example of that. Give me an example.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't follow that, Jim. So so some you know,

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<v Speaker 2>some guy is in prison, uh life without parole.

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<v Speaker 4>Dan want gangs?

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<v Speaker 2>I get it.

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<v Speaker 4>Gangs they're connected, Dan, they don't. They're not just like oh,

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<v Speaker 4>our guy went off to prison. They stay connected in

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<v Speaker 4>the joint.

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<v Speaker 2>So if they have the possibility of parole, how how's

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<v Speaker 2>that going to lead to another murder? That's what I'm

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<v Speaker 2>confused about.

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<v Speaker 5>No extortion.

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<v Speaker 2>I still don't understand that. Jim, explain it to me

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<v Speaker 2>so I can get it. I just I'm not following

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<v Speaker 2>my fault.

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<v Speaker 4>This is another This is another example of the same

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<v Speaker 4>type of activity. But these uh South American gangs, if

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<v Speaker 4>there's a concert down in Mexico and they don't want

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<v Speaker 4>it to happen, they'll just call and a level of

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<v Speaker 4>threat and then people know that they follow through on

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<v Speaker 4>their threats, so then they can they can cause things

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<v Speaker 4>to not happen and things to happen. But if if

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<v Speaker 4>everybody knows that there's that, no matter what they do,

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<v Speaker 4>they're not to be able to affect any change in

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<v Speaker 4>that area. Then they won't do it. But if there's

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<v Speaker 4>a possibility that there would they will affect change, then

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<v Speaker 4>they will do just about anything too.

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<v Speaker 2>No. But but I'm saying, if let's say there is

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<v Speaker 2>someone who's coming up on a parole hearing after twenty

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<v Speaker 2>five years, I'm opposed to this because certain crimes murdering

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<v Speaker 2>the first degree. You know, there's no reason to change

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<v Speaker 2>that at this point. But let's assume they change it.

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<v Speaker 2>Are you suggesting that then people are going to threaten

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<v Speaker 2>parole officers or family members. Don't testify against my friend

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<v Speaker 2>who's coming up for parole after having killed your family members.

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<v Speaker 2>That is that the point you're trying to make.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't know. I don't know exactly how they would

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<v Speaker 4>do it or how exactly they do it. All I

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<v Speaker 4>know there are certain people that are absolutely ruthless, and

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<v Speaker 4>if they think they could do something to get their

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<v Speaker 4>friend out earlier, then they will do that.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I think I would agree with you. There are

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<v Speaker 2>very bad people, and there are people I know who

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<v Speaker 2>extort money from people, and they will they can say

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<v Speaker 2>to someone in some of these countries, you're not going

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<v Speaker 2>to have a concert, because I get that. But I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't understand harves Will related to this. Thanks Jim, have

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<v Speaker 2>a great weekend. We will continue with our conversations. The

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<v Speaker 2>only line open right now is six one seven, nine three, one,

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<v Speaker 2>ten thirty. There were two lines there, so don't break

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<v Speaker 2>your knuckles or your fingernails dialing six one, seven, two,

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<v Speaker 2>five four ten thirty. Those lines are full. Six one seven,

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<v Speaker 2>nine three one ten thirty. Is there anyone out there

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<v Speaker 2>who thinks that the idea of getting rid of life

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<v Speaker 2>without parole for murder in the first degree and potentially

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<v Speaker 2>some other crimes. There's a there's a crime out of

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<v Speaker 2>Norway that was brought to my attention today. There was

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<v Speaker 2>a guy who killed I think it was eighty five

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<v Speaker 2>school kids at a camp in Norway. And this guy,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, is now parole eligible. That's I got to

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<v Speaker 2>look it up during the break here. But we always

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<v Speaker 2>have these these The progressors will say, well, in Europe

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<v Speaker 2>they don't treat people in prison as harshly as I

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<v Speaker 2>don't care. But there's this case in Europe, which again

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<v Speaker 2>has no application to us. But the guy killed eighty

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<v Speaker 2>five kids or something like that, some bizarre number at

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<v Speaker 2>a summer camp and he theoretically has a right to

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<v Speaker 2>parole hearings back on Nightside right after this.

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<v Speaker 1>You're on Night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z,

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<v Speaker 1>Boston's news radio.

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, as I said, I talked about this

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<v Speaker 2>Norwegian guy. His name is Anders Brevic. He killed in

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<v Speaker 2>a car bombing in Oslo in July of twenty eleven,

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<v Speaker 2>eight people in a car bomb. Then he went to

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<v Speaker 2>a summer camp and killed sixty nine kids in a

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<v Speaker 2>summer camp. So he killed in total seventy seven people.

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<v Speaker 2>This is in Norway, a much more enlightened country than ours.

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<v Speaker 2>He was jailed from maximum of twenty one years, which

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<v Speaker 2>means he will be released as I read this story

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty thirty two, that's like what eight years from

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<v Speaker 2>seven years from now. So he applied in twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>two for parole. They decided that he's still crazy, he's

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<v Speaker 2>a dangerous guy, and they kept him. But oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>when he showed up he renounced violence. But he gave

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<v Speaker 2>Nazi salutes in the opening day of the hearing. But

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<v Speaker 2>of course you'll have some folks here who are going

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<v Speaker 2>to say, oh, yeah, you know, we should have a

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<v Speaker 2>criminal justice system more like Norway or Sweden or Denmark

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<v Speaker 2>or Germany or whatever. It's insane. And here in Massachusetts

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<v Speaker 2>you have the progressives who never stop. They are like

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<v Speaker 2>that mosquito that's flying around in your room at night

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<v Speaker 2>and you hear him, he's in your ear and you

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<v Speaker 2>swat your ear. You can't see him at night. They

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<v Speaker 2>just never stop and they will not stop with this either.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's go next to I, Leen and Waltham, I lean

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<v Speaker 2>next on nightside.

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<v Speaker 6>Welcome, Welcome to you, good evening, Dadhileen. So just to

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<v Speaker 6>I think one of the problems is we don't want

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<v Speaker 6>to believe that evil exists. And it does.

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<v Speaker 2>It sure does.

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<v Speaker 6>And I think that's part of the problem. There's so

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<v Speaker 6>many people that don't realize will becoming a more and

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<v Speaker 6>more secular society where we don't think evil exists. And

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<v Speaker 6>all you have to do is look at October seventh

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<v Speaker 6>to seek evil, incredible evil, and it's and it exists everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we got people, we got people in the United

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<v Speaker 2>States today who are demonstrating on college campuses from the

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<v Speaker 2>river to the sea. And all that means is eliminate

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<v Speaker 2>finished the job that Hamas started on October seventh. They

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<v Speaker 2>want they want everyone out of Israel. Are everyone in

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<v Speaker 2>Israel dead? And those are college students at Ivy League

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<v Speaker 2>colleges we're not talking about. Yeah, and I'm sure the

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<v Speaker 2>guy who gave over there in normally who gives the

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<v Speaker 2>Nazi salute, would also endorse that philosophy.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, but we really don't want to believe in evil

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<v Speaker 6>and it's out there. And I think there were some

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<v Speaker 6>we talk about there were some people that are just

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<v Speaker 6>playing a moral they're not in moral there amorl. They

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<v Speaker 6>don't have anywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Around marvels too, none whatsoever.

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<v Speaker 6>Yeah, so they so it's not they're not in moral,

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<v Speaker 6>they just don't have any And I think, I mean,

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<v Speaker 6>there are some things that have done that nobody can.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean.

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<v Speaker 6>And here's the other thought too, just a quick thought.

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<v Speaker 6>If say you have somebody who when they were twenty five, thirty,

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<v Speaker 6>whatever whatever age, kill somebody if they have a change,

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<v Speaker 6>an attitude, change in soul, whatever you want to call it,

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<v Speaker 6>a lot of those people would stay in jail because

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<v Speaker 6>they believe that's where they belong.

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<v Speaker 2>I understand that point. I understand that was the point.

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<v Speaker 6>If you really had a real conversion, yeah, they you'd

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<v Speaker 6>be happy to stay in.

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<v Speaker 2>Jail by the way, I should have done this last hour.

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<v Speaker 2>But for those here in Massachusetts, let me give this

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<v Speaker 2>legislation was first introduced in twenty nineteen by Representative Jay

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<v Speaker 2>Livingstone and Senator Joseph Boncoori. At that time, it was

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<v Speaker 2>supported also by the chair of the Judiciary Committee, Senator

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<v Speaker 2>Jamie Eldridge. This year's legislation is sponsored by Representative Chris

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<v Speaker 2>Worrell and State Senator Liz Miranda. So if you live

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<v Speaker 2>in their districts, realize that the person who represents you

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<v Speaker 2>in the state legislature is one of the sponsors of

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<v Speaker 2>this piece of legislation. If not in twenty nineteen, now

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty four. And if you feel as strongly

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<v Speaker 2>as I do about this, you might want to think

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<v Speaker 2>about maybe running for office here in Massachusetts because we

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<v Speaker 2>got a pretty interesting collection of characters in our legislature.

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<v Speaker 5>Indefinitely.

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<v Speaker 6>Here's another thought. If you look at different things like abortion,

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<v Speaker 6>is it is another issue I have a problem with.

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<v Speaker 6>First it was the first what nine weeks or something

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<v Speaker 6>that it went up, and then it went up, and

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<v Speaker 6>then Jerry and all of a sudden, now it's right

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<v Speaker 6>up to the birth of the child.

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<v Speaker 7>Well again, yeah, as they say that that is a

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<v Speaker 7>subject again, yeah, I leen, it's it's that is one

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<v Speaker 7>of those issues that really does involve a lot of

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<v Speaker 7>morality and also religion based. And again I you know,

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<v Speaker 7>I I feel as you do on that issue, but

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<v Speaker 7>I don't want to mix it up with this one

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<v Speaker 7>because this.

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<v Speaker 6>Is something the process of first, you know, first we're

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<v Speaker 6>going to have you.

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<v Speaker 2>I get it. Well, it's called incrementalism. I understand. I lean,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not stupid, you can, I lean, I lean, I

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<v Speaker 2>get your point. Okay, it's called incrementalism. Okay, it's as

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<v Speaker 2>simple as that. I mean, pretty much saying the same

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<v Speaker 2>way when you talk about evil. When Hitler expanded in Europe,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, first he only wanted a piece of this country.

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<v Speaker 2>Then he wanted a little bit of this country, that

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit, and then he wanted the rest of

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<v Speaker 2>that country. So that's incrementalistmer as well. Ilean, thank you

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<v Speaker 2>for your call. As always, we talk again, Thank you much.

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<v Speaker 2>Let me go to Berlin. It's I hope I pronounced

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<v Speaker 2>it correctly. Is it Berlin in Malden?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>You did?

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<v Speaker 8>You pronounce it correctly?

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<v Speaker 1>Hi?

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<v Speaker 9>Dan?

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<v Speaker 8>How are you? And I I haven't called him many

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<v Speaker 8>many years.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you, well, thank you for listening. Nonetheless, what's

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<v Speaker 2>your thought on this issue?

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<v Speaker 8>And it's Belanda the Bee. So I volunteer in prison.

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<v Speaker 8>I'm a volunteer teacher in a program called Another Way

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<v Speaker 8>to Go. I've been leading in prison since twenty eighteen.

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<v Speaker 8>And those include Susan Baranovski, which is the maximum security

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<v Speaker 8>prison MC I conquered MCI framing him, and I'm currently

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<v Speaker 8>leading two times a week at MCI Norfolk. Both programs

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<v Speaker 8>have twenty two participants in them. It's an eighteen week program, okay.

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<v Speaker 9>And I'm with.

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<v Speaker 8>Jan Delaney and I'm also with you. So, I mean, dude,

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<v Speaker 8>I think there's the part of after twenty five years,

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<v Speaker 8>just looking to look and revise and see bus this

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<v Speaker 8>patison perhaps eligible for reconsidering the fact of being able

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<v Speaker 8>to have parole, I think is appropriate. I have, you know,

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<v Speaker 8>forty four currently participants in our program, and out of

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<v Speaker 8>those forty four, a good majority or a good portion,

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<v Speaker 8>let's say, fifty percent have life sentences. Out of those,

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<v Speaker 8>there's many that have that had life sentences without parole,

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<v Speaker 8>but when they committed their crime, they were twenty or

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<v Speaker 8>nineteen and they now are eligible because there was a

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<v Speaker 8>new bill that was passed and if they were under

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<v Speaker 8>the age of twenty one, they would now be able

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<v Speaker 8>to go.

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<v Speaker 2>No, that's another example where I can find twenty psychiatrists

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<v Speaker 2>next week who will tell me that their frontal their

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<v Speaker 2>brain is not fully developed and formed until they're thirty.

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<v Speaker 2>And so if we now have you know, said okay, people,

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<v Speaker 2>and I guess we now say we're going to revisit

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<v Speaker 2>those those cases. Why not reduce it? Why not bring

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<v Speaker 2>it up to thirty? Is it inconceivable that someone at

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<v Speaker 2>twenty nine could could commit a murder and twenty five

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<v Speaker 2>years later when they're fifty five, you know, not be

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<v Speaker 2>a different person. They might be a different person. But

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<v Speaker 2>I would, respectfully and I'm so glad you called, but

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<v Speaker 2>I would respectfully disagree with you because I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>when someone has committed murder in the first degree. You

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<v Speaker 2>know as well as I do that when they eliminated

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<v Speaker 2>capital punishment, one of the arguments was to commit murder

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<v Speaker 2>into first degree, you should stay away from stay in

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<v Speaker 2>prison for life now to see and shift and now

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<v Speaker 2>we're using that same argument to give people parole. What

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<v Speaker 2>do you say to the families, and let me ask

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<v Speaker 2>you this question. What do you say?

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<v Speaker 4>Sorry? Good with you?

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<v Speaker 8>I mean, this is such a such a That's why

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<v Speaker 8>I was driving on the highway and I pulled over

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<v Speaker 8>so I could try.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, no, I appreciate it. So what do you say?

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<v Speaker 2>Here's my question. You sound like you're an off the

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<v Speaker 2>good person, and I mean that seriously. I'm not. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not being you know, sarcastic at all. I admire what

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<v Speaker 2>you're doing and the fact that you're doing it as

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<v Speaker 2>a volunteers is amazing to me. Okay, but what do

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<v Speaker 2>you say to the family, to the progeny of you know,

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<v Speaker 2>someone whose mom or dad was murdered twenty five years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe when they were five or six year old? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>so what how do.

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<v Speaker 8>You It's awful and how do you balance that?

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<v Speaker 2>The question is how do you balance? How do you

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<v Speaker 2>balance that interest? That's what my trouble is here.

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<v Speaker 8>Right, and I'm trying to get to that. So the

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<v Speaker 8>definitely the crime itself, there's no that you know, there's

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<v Speaker 8>no taking that back, and it's awful. However, there's also

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<v Speaker 8>the human part of things, and I would say there's

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<v Speaker 8>a it's not all black or white. There's lots of

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<v Speaker 8>shades of gray. And when you actually.

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<v Speaker 2>Bellin, Bellen, here's what I got it. I got to

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<v Speaker 2>break for news. But do me a favors. Since you've

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<v Speaker 2>been kind enough to pull over, I don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>cut you short of rush you. Let's hold Can you

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<v Speaker 2>hold on for another couple of minutes. Let's get through

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<v Speaker 2>the newscast and I'll pick you up on the other side.

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<v Speaker 2>Fair enough, sure enough?

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<v Speaker 5>Problem okay.

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<v Speaker 2>I want you to be able to think your thoughts clearly.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to feel safe. You only got one

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<v Speaker 2>minute left or something. I want to give you the

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<v Speaker 2>time because you had the coverage to call. Be back

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<v Speaker 2>with Bellin from Blun from Meldon will be back on

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<v Speaker 2>nights Side. If you'd like to join the conversation. We're

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<v Speaker 2>going to talk about this till eleven. I hope six one, seven, two, five, four,

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<v Speaker 2>ten thirty six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.

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<v Speaker 2>But Bellin is up on the other side of the news.

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<v Speaker 2>Right after this, you're.

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<v Speaker 1>On Night Side with Dan Ray on waz Boston's news radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks Al Griffin. Let me get back to my caller

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<v Speaker 2>that I have held over, Billin, who's calling in from Malden.

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<v Speaker 2>She works as a volunteer in Massachusetts prisons helping prisoners

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<v Speaker 2>learn how to read, and she seems to be of

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<v Speaker 2>mixed mind on this we're discussing is a piece of

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<v Speaker 2>legislation for those of you who are just joining us,

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<v Speaker 2>filed here in Massachusetts to eliminate life without parole. Bella

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<v Speaker 2>and I interrupted you. Thank you for sticking with us

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<v Speaker 2>once you continue with your thoughts.

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<v Speaker 8>Okay, thank you. And just to clarify, the program that

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<v Speaker 8>we lead is not to read. It's a ontological and

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<v Speaker 8>transformational thinking program. So what we deal with is really

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<v Speaker 8>looking at your thoughts, your internal dialogue, your reactions, interpretation,

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<v Speaker 8>and how that all relates to behavior and actions and

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<v Speaker 8>then impact of those actions. So just to clarify that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 8>and so what I was saying earlier is there there's

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<v Speaker 8>lots of shades of gray. It's not just black and white.

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<v Speaker 8>I mean the person in Norway. In Norway, I think

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<v Speaker 8>you said you know that person. I would say, yes, definitely,

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<v Speaker 8>that person should not be eligible or parole. However, you

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<v Speaker 8>might have somebody that perhaps reacted to their daughter getting

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<v Speaker 8>raped and at that point maybe they killed somebody because

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<v Speaker 8>they took their law in their own hands the moment

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<v Speaker 8>they saw the person that they know is the one

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<v Speaker 8>that raped their child. At that point, they committed a crime,

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<v Speaker 8>and the law is the same for everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I think that I think that in that situation,

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<v Speaker 2>that person would probably be looking at us second agree

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<v Speaker 2>murder at least in Massachusetts, or a manslaughter. They would

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<v Speaker 2>have to pay for the crime. We do not encourage

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<v Speaker 2>people to engage in what's called self help, but I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think that that individual would get a murder in

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<v Speaker 2>the first degree with the subsequent life sentence without parole.

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<v Speaker 2>So my question is this, though I'm sure that there's

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<v Speaker 2>a whole bunch of examples you can give us of

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<v Speaker 2>people who are in other people who are in there

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<v Speaker 2>for life in prison without parole, meaning they can be I.

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<v Speaker 8>Have many participants in my program that have life sentences

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<v Speaker 8>with no parole.

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, question is okay?

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<v Speaker 2>Question is of those who you think would would would

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<v Speaker 2>benefit from a parole hearing that they have life without

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<v Speaker 2>parole so they don't have a right to a hearing.

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<v Speaker 2>What percentage of those that you've been exposed to do

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<v Speaker 2>you think should, based upon your observations, be paroled back

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<v Speaker 2>into society.

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<v Speaker 8>So based upon my observations and based upon my opinion

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<v Speaker 8>of the participants that are in my class. Now, one

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<v Speaker 8>thing to point out is I don't know if I

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<v Speaker 8>have the worst of the worst in my class. However,

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<v Speaker 8>based on the ones that I do have in my

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<v Speaker 8>class over eight years of doing this work, I would

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<v Speaker 8>say the majority. I would give them that opportunity to

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<v Speaker 8>be able to present themselves. And here's why, because they

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<v Speaker 8>are in they're in prison, and so then they have

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<v Speaker 8>access to education, they have access to programs, so they're

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<v Speaker 8>not just sitting there idly, and they're actually very hungry

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<v Speaker 8>for transforming and improving and getting better. That's my orgization.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you, thank you for that. Now, so my

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<v Speaker 2>question is this, of the however many there would be,

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<v Speaker 2>whether or not it's half or more or all of them. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>again we're talking about people. This is murder in the

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<v Speaker 2>first degree. So this is premeditation, deliberation, This is not

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<v Speaker 2>a moment of passion. This is not murdering the second

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<v Speaker 2>This is murdering the first degree. Okay, murdering the second degree,

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<v Speaker 2>you're parole eligible after fifteen years in Massachusetts. Murder in

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<v Speaker 2>the first degree, you're going to give these people parole hearings,

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<v Speaker 2>which then you're going to have to revisit this horrific

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<v Speaker 2>crime on the families of the victims, the survivors.

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<v Speaker 8>Yes, that I think is also for the families.

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<v Speaker 2>So then my question to you is what do you

422
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:55.920
<v Speaker 2>say to the loved ones who are going to have

423
00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:58.960
<v Speaker 2>to go to the parole hearing and listen to some

424
00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:02.400
<v Speaker 2>psychologists tell us how that the guy that brutally murdered

425
00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:06.839
<v Speaker 2>their their mom or their dad or whomever, uh now

426
00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:11.440
<v Speaker 2>should be paroled. What what do you what empathy? What

427
00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:15.079
<v Speaker 2>do you say to them to help get them through

428
00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:18.160
<v Speaker 2>this this reliving of this nightmare.

429
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:25.160
<v Speaker 8>I mean, it's such a hard question done because what do.

430
00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:28.319
<v Speaker 2>You it's intended to be.

431
00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:31.640
<v Speaker 8>Of course I understand that, and and that's the thing

432
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:36.440
<v Speaker 8>I mean I personally, I mean, it's so hard. I

433
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:38.839
<v Speaker 8>don't know if you've ever seen it. Sometimes there's there's

434
00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:45.119
<v Speaker 8>prisoners and quote unquote criminals that are then sometimes in

435
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.400
<v Speaker 8>touch with family members and they somehow been able to

436
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:53.559
<v Speaker 8>get to a point where they forgive. And the forgiveness

437
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:59.000
<v Speaker 8>is what sets families and others free on both sides.

438
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:05.200
<v Speaker 8>Because often time, in my observation. The prisoners themselves have

439
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:09.039
<v Speaker 8>the guilds, the shame and all of that, and then they.

440
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.200
<v Speaker 2>I would say that the family that would forgive someone

441
00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:20.799
<v Speaker 2>for having killed again a mom or a dad, or

442
00:26:20.799 --> 00:26:23.559
<v Speaker 2>a son or a daughter or whatever, a close family.

443
00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:26.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't think that someone you know, someone who's a

444
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:28.480
<v Speaker 2>brother in law or a sister in law has the

445
00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:34.200
<v Speaker 2>standing to forgive, Okay, but I think they would be

446
00:26:34.440 --> 00:26:39.920
<v Speaker 2>very rare people, uh two, very rare, very rare people.

447
00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:43.079
<v Speaker 2>And and that's why I'm very hesitant. And that's why

448
00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:45.039
<v Speaker 2>I am bringing this up tonight, and I hope to

449
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:48.599
<v Speaker 2>hear from more people. You make a great presentation. You're

450
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:51.480
<v Speaker 2>you're a better person than I am, Bellam. Okay, I

451
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:58.400
<v Speaker 2>mean that seriously. I am someone who in cases where

452
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:02.880
<v Speaker 2>there's no scintilla of doubt about a person's guilt or

453
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:07.599
<v Speaker 2>innocence and they have engaged in a and a heinous

454
00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:12.319
<v Speaker 2>act with aggravating circumstances, such as Boston bomber number two,

455
00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:19.079
<v Speaker 2>I would apply the death penalty without equivocation. I suspect

456
00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:21.680
<v Speaker 2>you probably would not under anything.

457
00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:26.079
<v Speaker 8>I disagree with that because it depends I certainly think

458
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:27.359
<v Speaker 8>that it depends on the case.

459
00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:30.519
<v Speaker 2>Well, let me ask you this on Boston bomber number two,

460
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:34.039
<v Speaker 2>who has now lived twelve years past the date of

461
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:37.000
<v Speaker 2>what he and his brother did. He's sitting at the

462
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:42.200
<v Speaker 2>supermax in Colorado. Would you, if you know, would you

463
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:44.559
<v Speaker 2>support the death penalty for him?

464
00:27:45.319 --> 00:27:47.160
<v Speaker 8>I mean, I think.

465
00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:49.720
<v Speaker 2>You said it depends upon the case. That's the case.

466
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:53.720
<v Speaker 8>Everyone knows the only so my only reservation was his

467
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.799
<v Speaker 8>age when he did it. Other than that, I would

468
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:57.759
<v Speaker 8>say yes.

469
00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:01.359
<v Speaker 2>And he was very at what age? And you at

470
00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:05.960
<v Speaker 2>what age in your mind could someone commit? Or is

471
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:09.119
<v Speaker 2>there any age could someone you? I think you're moving

472
00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:13.319
<v Speaker 2>target for me here at what age in your mind

473
00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:18.880
<v Speaker 2>do people if this kid was? How old would you say,

474
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:22.279
<v Speaker 2>if he was forty and he did this, would you

475
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:24.440
<v Speaker 2>be willing to apply the death penalty? And what age?

476
00:28:24.519 --> 00:28:28.279
<v Speaker 8>I think he was twenty five? See well, I don't

477
00:28:28.279 --> 00:28:30.039
<v Speaker 8>think he was twenty five. I think he was young

478
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:32.440
<v Speaker 8>in either nineteen or twenty when he did it, or eighteen.

479
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:39.559
<v Speaker 2>I think he was twenty one. So if he had

480
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:43.440
<v Speaker 2>been twenty five, so you're not inalterably opposed to the

481
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:48.319
<v Speaker 2>death penalty, you're telling me I mentioned earlier tonight about

482
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:53.279
<v Speaker 2>if you were listening the two criminals who you know

483
00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:58.720
<v Speaker 2>the Prewer case down in Connecticut.

484
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:01.880
<v Speaker 8>You found I was working, so I didn't sare that part?

485
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:05.599
<v Speaker 2>Well? Real? Simply these two criminals, it was a home invasion.

486
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:09.640
<v Speaker 2>They tied up a doctor, the dad and the husband

487
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:12.119
<v Speaker 2>in the house. Tied him up, immobilized him down cellar.

488
00:29:12.920 --> 00:29:15.559
<v Speaker 2>They raped two young girls, I think they were eight

489
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.680
<v Speaker 2>and ten. They raped the mother. They took the mother

490
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:24.039
<v Speaker 2>to a bank to withdraw some money. She was able,

491
00:29:24.119 --> 00:29:26.039
<v Speaker 2>this is about ten years ago. She was able to

492
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:30.440
<v Speaker 2>communicate somehow quietly with their eyes to a teller. The

493
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:34.160
<v Speaker 2>teller sense that there was a problem. She called police.

494
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.319
<v Speaker 2>When they got back to the home, police started to

495
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:40.759
<v Speaker 2>surround the house. The two killers doused the girls who

496
00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:44.799
<v Speaker 2>had been tied up in their bed with gasoline, set

497
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:47.079
<v Speaker 2>the house on fire. They were both like in their

498
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:50.599
<v Speaker 2>forties fifties, and they fled the house. So there was

499
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:55.079
<v Speaker 2>no doubt about who committed these crimes. They killed the

500
00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:58.839
<v Speaker 2>wife and they basically burned their daughters to death the

501
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:03.920
<v Speaker 2>husbandhouse because the fire department was there. They're well over

502
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:07.359
<v Speaker 2>twenty five. Would have you gone for the death penalty

503
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:08.240
<v Speaker 2>for them?

504
00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:08.880
<v Speaker 8>Yeah?

505
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:12.519
<v Speaker 2>I have good? Okay, great, okay? Although that we can agree.

506
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:14.279
<v Speaker 2>I hate to do this year, but we've gone a

507
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:18.880
<v Speaker 2>long time only because the time you're welcome, please continue

508
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.720
<v Speaker 2>to call the program. Thanks, good night. All right, I

509
00:30:22.759 --> 00:30:25.000
<v Speaker 2>have wide open lines here. I will promise no one

510
00:30:25.039 --> 00:30:27.559
<v Speaker 2>else will get ten minutes. I'd like to hear a

511
00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:30.920
<v Speaker 2>quick round from you on this. Do you want to

512
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:33.839
<v Speaker 2>keep life without parole in Massachusetts? We're going to switch

513
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:35.880
<v Speaker 2>topics at eleven, we're gonna go to the twentieth hour.

514
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.599
<v Speaker 2>Do you want to keep life without parole in Massachusetts?

515
00:30:38.680 --> 00:30:41.920
<v Speaker 2>I do for murder one for cases people who are

516
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.519
<v Speaker 2>convicted of murder one, which is premeditation deliberation. Is that

517
00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:49.160
<v Speaker 2>it's the highest level of murder in Massachusetts. Or do

518
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:51.559
<v Speaker 2>you agree with my guest from the nine o'clock hour

519
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:53.759
<v Speaker 2>or those who would want to get rid of it

520
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:58.359
<v Speaker 2>and make even people who commit murder one parole eligible

521
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:03.319
<v Speaker 2>after twenty five years. I'm inalterably opposed to this. I'd

522
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:05.480
<v Speaker 2>love to hear from you, particularly if you agree with me.

523
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Six one, seven, five, four, ten, thirty six months, seven nine,

524
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:11.279
<v Speaker 2>three thirty. I got wide open lines. I'll get everybody

525
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:14.200
<v Speaker 2>in quick answers from now until eleven.

526
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:20.359
<v Speaker 1>Night side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ Boston's news radio.

527
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:24.680
<v Speaker 2>All right, we're talking about a piece of legislation that

528
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:28.839
<v Speaker 2>has been filed here in Massachusetts which would eliminate the

529
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:32.880
<v Speaker 2>penalty of life without parole. Let me go to Karen

530
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:36.319
<v Speaker 2>and rock Board. Karen, appreciate your patience. You were next

531
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:37.720
<v Speaker 2>on NIGHTSI thanks for calling in.

532
00:31:39.480 --> 00:31:42.440
<v Speaker 9>Hi, Dan, first time caller. I can't believe I'm actually

533
00:31:42.440 --> 00:31:43.440
<v Speaker 9>calling in on this, but.

534
00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:46.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you. First of all, being the first time

535
00:31:46.119 --> 00:31:47.720
<v Speaker 2>calling You're gonna get around of a boss from our

536
00:31:47.759 --> 00:31:51.960
<v Speaker 2>studio audience, our digital studio audience, love to hear what

537
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:53.319
<v Speaker 2>your thoughts are. Go ahead.

538
00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:57.599
<v Speaker 9>I just think they're absolutely nuts to even consider this.

539
00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:05.640
<v Speaker 9>So nothing should surprise me with politics lately. But now

540
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:12.920
<v Speaker 9>they were tried, they were sentenced, the sentence sticks. There's

541
00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.200
<v Speaker 9>there's a reason they were given the sentence they have.

542
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:21.119
<v Speaker 9>I don't feel like paying for these people forever and

543
00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:27.880
<v Speaker 9>the Sonaya brothers. Simple solution. Sit them next to a

544
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:31.079
<v Speaker 9>bomb like they built. Blow it up if they make

545
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:34.680
<v Speaker 9>it okay, if they don't, you know, the brothers that left.

546
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:39.359
<v Speaker 9>I mean, that's harse, But seriously, there's there's might be.

547
00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:46.920
<v Speaker 2>Appropriate, would probably prevent cruel and and usual punishment of

548
00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:49.400
<v Speaker 2>the Eighth Amendment. No, what we're talking about here, and

549
00:32:49.440 --> 00:32:52.240
<v Speaker 2>this is this is interesting. In Massachusetts, in order to

550
00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:55.319
<v Speaker 2>get if you're convicted a murder in the first degree,

551
00:32:55.720 --> 00:33:02.160
<v Speaker 2>it means it means premeditation and deliberations. That it's it's

552
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:06.640
<v Speaker 2>not a crime of passion. It's not a fight in

553
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:09.480
<v Speaker 2>the bar room. Those are the sort of second degree

554
00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:13.759
<v Speaker 2>murder cases. This is like a contract killer. This is

555
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:16.279
<v Speaker 2>somebody who says, well, I'm gonna you know, I need

556
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:18.519
<v Speaker 2>to get someone because I need to kill a business partner,

557
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:21.240
<v Speaker 2>I got to kill a spouse. These are the worst

558
00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:25.279
<v Speaker 2>of the worst. And now what happens is remember when

559
00:33:25.319 --> 00:33:27.680
<v Speaker 2>they got rid of the death penalty in Massachusetts. The

560
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:30.920
<v Speaker 2>argument was, well, you know what, the death penalty is

561
00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:32.680
<v Speaker 2>too good for them because that way it gets them

562
00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:35.000
<v Speaker 2>out of here quickly. No, make them stay in prison

563
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:36.960
<v Speaker 2>for the rest of their lives. They deserve that.

564
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:39.200
<v Speaker 9>Punishment, and that's the punishment.

565
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:41.599
<v Speaker 4>And now we're not Now they've changed.

566
00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:45.839
<v Speaker 2>Now they've changed the rules of the game. Now it's like,

567
00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:49.480
<v Speaker 2>wait a second, it's not fair to the inmate. They

568
00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:51.720
<v Speaker 2>have to give them hope that twenty five years you

569
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:54.440
<v Speaker 2>now they might get a parole to heck with the

570
00:33:54.440 --> 00:33:56.480
<v Speaker 2>families who are gonna have to show up with the

571
00:33:56.519 --> 00:34:03.720
<v Speaker 2>parole hearing. It's just Massachusetts. It's this creep being progressive incrementalism.

572
00:34:04.039 --> 00:34:08.719
<v Speaker 2>They're never happy. Look what would stop some legislature a

573
00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:11.400
<v Speaker 2>few years from now to say or whatever. Say well, well,

574
00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:13.679
<v Speaker 2>twenty five years is a long time. Let's cut it

575
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:19.079
<v Speaker 2>down to fifteen years, you know. And I was pointing

576
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:23.920
<v Speaker 2>out that there was this guy in Norway. You hear

577
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:26.320
<v Speaker 2>so many people say, well, you know, in Europe they're

578
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.039
<v Speaker 2>much you know, it's a better criminal just system. No,

579
00:34:29.119 --> 00:34:31.599
<v Speaker 2>it isn't this guy in Norway that blew up a

580
00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:35.039
<v Speaker 2>bomb in Oslo, killed eight people and then went and

581
00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:40.320
<v Speaker 2>killed sixty nine kids at a summer camp, seventy seven

582
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:43.559
<v Speaker 2>people in one day. He was sentenced to I think

583
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:47.400
<v Speaker 2>it was twenty years in prison. He will get out

584
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:51.159
<v Speaker 2>of prison in twenty thirty two because he committed this

585
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:53.400
<v Speaker 2>crime in the summer of twenty eleven, and he is

586
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:56.960
<v Speaker 2>up for a parole hearing in Norway. They turned him down,

587
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:01.159
<v Speaker 2>thank god. But he's got a parole hearing ten years into.

588
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:05.480
<v Speaker 9>His sentence, ten years in.

589
00:35:05.559 --> 00:35:08.440
<v Speaker 2>When you do the math, ten years in and oh,

590
00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:10.679
<v Speaker 2>by the way, when he showed up at the sentence,

591
00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:15.000
<v Speaker 2>he gave a Nazi salute. Oh yeah, I want that

592
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:19.159
<v Speaker 2>guy out. Oh yeah. It doesn't.

593
00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.679
<v Speaker 9>Know if there's some kind of doubt, you know, that's

594
00:35:25.719 --> 00:35:31.519
<v Speaker 9>one thing, but that I I just think they're absolutely

595
00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:36.000
<v Speaker 9>insane to even be talking about this. I would hope

596
00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:37.840
<v Speaker 9>you get a checking to do.

597
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:40.079
<v Speaker 2>If you get a chance over the weekend, check us

598
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.519
<v Speaker 2>out Nightside of Demand. Listen to the nine o'clock hour.

599
00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:44.760
<v Speaker 2>I had a fellow one who's one of the lobbyistsuff

600
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:48.239
<v Speaker 2>at the State House who supports this and it's a

601
00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:51.960
<v Speaker 2>more thorough review of it. Hey, Karen, thanks very much.

602
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:54.480
<v Speaker 2>If you listen to night Side and you agree with

603
00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:56.880
<v Speaker 2>me in this, I want you as a frequent caller,

604
00:35:56.920 --> 00:35:59.719
<v Speaker 2>come on it.

605
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:01.400
<v Speaker 9>I listen all the time.

606
00:36:01.519 --> 00:36:04.079
<v Speaker 2>Thank you getting here and I need your voice. Thank

607
00:36:04.119 --> 00:36:06.039
<v Speaker 2>you much. Have a great night. Let me get Ken

608
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:08.079
<v Speaker 2>and walthon. Ken you're next on Nights and I'm going

609
00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:10.119
<v Speaker 2>to be fascinating to know what you wanted to do

610
00:36:10.199 --> 00:36:11.159
<v Speaker 2>on this go ahead can.

611
00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:16.880
<v Speaker 5>Be obviously I can't. Yeah, I wondered if there's the incrementalism,

612
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:19.880
<v Speaker 5>if we're you know, the death penalty is taken away,

613
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.679
<v Speaker 5>life without paroles taken away if we're taking away some

614
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:25.599
<v Speaker 5>prosecutor tools for them to be able to, you know,

615
00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:30.960
<v Speaker 5>negotiate guilty. Please, you know, we can't hold these tougher

616
00:36:31.000 --> 00:36:33.360
<v Speaker 5>sentences against them and say you don't plead guilty to

617
00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:34.159
<v Speaker 5>a lesser crime.

618
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:36.679
<v Speaker 2>If we take one, that's a factor. No, that that's

619
00:36:36.719 --> 00:36:39.199
<v Speaker 2>a factor. It's a minu factor as far as I'm concerned,

620
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:42.480
<v Speaker 2>because most of these folks who are looking at a

621
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:45.920
<v Speaker 2>at a crime of life without parole, you know, they

622
00:36:45.960 --> 00:36:49.000
<v Speaker 2>know they're going down. And you know, but but again,

623
00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:51.880
<v Speaker 2>if that's off the table, maybe they'll, you know, give

624
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:54.039
<v Speaker 2>me a second degree murder so I can be eligible

625
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:57.400
<v Speaker 2>in fifteen years.

626
00:36:56.199 --> 00:36:59.360
<v Speaker 5>Or life with parol. Right, So yeah, oh, I see

627
00:36:59.400 --> 00:37:01.000
<v Speaker 5>what you're saying though, if they're both taken off.

628
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:01.239
<v Speaker 8>Yeah.

629
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:04.400
<v Speaker 5>The other thing I just wanted to bring up, I like,

630
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:09.760
<v Speaker 5>you know, Leslie van Houton the Manson, Yeah, right, murderer

631
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:13.239
<v Speaker 5>right at age nineteen. She was paroled at fifty three

632
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:16.280
<v Speaker 5>years later, and I you know, just listening to her,

633
00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:19.199
<v Speaker 5>I mean, she just seems like an entirely different person.

634
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:22.960
<v Speaker 5>And I certainly wasn't screaming up and down, going injustice.

635
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:24.519
<v Speaker 2>In Jen No, you know, I get you on that one.

636
00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:28.199
<v Speaker 2>But you know, tell tell me how you feel about

637
00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:29.800
<v Speaker 2>Sharon Kate Sharon Tate.

638
00:37:31.960 --> 00:37:34.599
<v Speaker 5>Oh no, I'm with you. Know, I'm not necessarily saying

639
00:37:34.639 --> 00:37:35.599
<v Speaker 5>therefore we should.

640
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:40.760
<v Speaker 2>No, I understand. But but if you're going to involve

641
00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:45.840
<v Speaker 2>in a home invasion and then kill a pregnant woman

642
00:37:46.639 --> 00:37:50.719
<v Speaker 2>with her unborn child and others, and you know you

643
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:53.639
<v Speaker 2>fell under the spell of this really bad guy Manson,

644
00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:57.760
<v Speaker 2>you know you did this. You know it wasn't like

645
00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:00.719
<v Speaker 2>you got caught deal in marijuana on Sunset's trip some night,

646
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:03.639
<v Speaker 2>because you will. You know, this is a pretty serious crime.

647
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:05.719
<v Speaker 2>I just don't. I don't have it in my heart.

648
00:38:06.199 --> 00:38:08.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't have it in my heart under.

649
00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:11.960
<v Speaker 5>Your view, definitely, definitely she should not have been parole

650
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:12.679
<v Speaker 5>in your view.

651
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:15.559
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, you do it. You do it, you do it

652
00:38:16.119 --> 00:38:18.280
<v Speaker 2>under those circumstances, you know, if it.

653
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:20.760
<v Speaker 5>Was well and you know the reason I bring that

654
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:22.639
<v Speaker 5>up just to throw that out there. And again I don't.

655
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:25.320
<v Speaker 5>I don't have a super super strong opinion either way.

656
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:28.679
<v Speaker 5>I mean, yep, I hear you just is you know

657
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:33.159
<v Speaker 5>Bombering number two fifty three years from now to be

658
00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:35.639
<v Speaker 5>let out right if he I mean he same age

659
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.199
<v Speaker 5>as Leslie van Houten, under the control of.

660
00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:41.679
<v Speaker 2>His theoretically, yeah, theoretically yeah, would you? I mean he

661
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:45.159
<v Speaker 2>knew what he was doing. He did it more dramatically

662
00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:47.079
<v Speaker 2>than she did. But she went in there that night

663
00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:50.400
<v Speaker 2>with text Ritter or whatever the heck. The kid's name

664
00:38:50.559 --> 00:38:53.920
<v Speaker 2>was Uh and Uh. They did the deed on the

665
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:59.920
<v Speaker 2>instruction of Manson. So I guess I got a cold heart. Sorry.

666
00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:04.360
<v Speaker 5>I think it's a tough, tough, tough question.

667
00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:07.960
<v Speaker 2>I think I think it's Thanks, buddy, we'll talk. I

668
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:10.079
<v Speaker 2>gotta I gotta scoot here. I got the eleven coming.

669
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:14.159
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for calling in, Terry and on the cape. Terry,

670
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:16.559
<v Speaker 2>I can only give you about ten seconds. You're really late,

671
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:19.000
<v Speaker 2>Am I right or wrong? Just tell me quickly?

672
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:22.880
<v Speaker 10>Still right? But I'd like to add one more thing.

673
00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:27.079
<v Speaker 10>Every mass shooter that shoots in schools, et cetera, et cetera,

674
00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:31.320
<v Speaker 10>send them to Elsdalmador real quick and stop the nonsense.

675
00:39:31.840 --> 00:39:35.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm with you, Terry. Thanks much. Maybe maybe the president

676
00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:37.840
<v Speaker 2>has an exception we could carve out. Thanks, Terry. We'll

677
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:41.039
<v Speaker 2>talk soon. Okay, all right, twentieth hour coming up. I'm

678
00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:43.320
<v Speaker 2>not sure what we're gonna do. But remember hall passes

679
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680
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:48.239
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681
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:51.719
<v Speaker 11>It's Jim from ACE Ticket.

682
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683
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684
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685
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686
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687
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688
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689
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690
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691
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693
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694
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695
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700
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701
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<v Speaker 13>Hi, It's Taylor, your other other Interstate Batteries guy here

702
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:50.880
<v Speaker 13>to let you know we've moved. Check out our new

703
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704
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705
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706
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708
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709
00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:12.760
<v Speaker 1>WBZ in Boston w XKSFM EHTY two Bedford and iHeartRadio station.

710
00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:22.119
<v Speaker 1>This is WBZ, Boston's news radio. We defining local news.

711
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:28.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, fifty seven degrees in Boston at eleven o'clock. Good evening.

712
00:41:28.039 --> 00:41:30.159
<v Speaker 11>I'm Al Griffith and here's what's happening.

713
00:41:30.440 --> 00:41:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Well. The first week in the Karen Reid murder Reed

714
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:36.039
<v Speaker 2>trial is in the books. Among the proceedings today, the

715
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:39.119
<v Speaker 2>jury bust to the home in Canton where the body

716
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:42.440
<v Speaker 2>of Reed's patrolman boyfriend John O'Keefe was found out in

717
00:41:42.480 --> 00:41:44.079
<v Speaker 2>the yard during a snowstorm.

718
00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:46.880
<v Speaker 12>Now, she's accused of hitting him with her SUV and

719
00:41:47.000 --> 00:41:49.840
<v Speaker 12>leaving the scene while he lay in the snow and

720
00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:52.840
<v Speaker 12>then died from his injuries. Reid did not attend the

721
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:55.719
<v Speaker 12>visit to the home today on Fairview Road, although she

722
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:57.039
<v Speaker 12>was given permission to