Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond.
Speaker 2: With Cliff and Bubo.
Speaker 3: These guys are your favorites, so like to subscribe and
Speaker 3: rade it.
Speaker 1: I'm study and me.
Speaker 3: Righteous on yesterday and listening, oh watching Lin always keep
Speaker 3: it squatching and now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James
Speaker 3: Bubo Fay.
Speaker 2: This guy's a big figure. We respect him a lot.
Speaker 2: He's been involved for fifty sixty years. Whatever it's been,
Speaker 2: well the information, he's still got stuff going on. He
Speaker 2: just sent me some audio through the other day. That's
Speaker 2: something out just in the last two weeks. Great guy,
Speaker 2: great researcher and a friend of the Squatch and this show.
Speaker 2: John Andrews from Washington.
Speaker 3: John, thank you very much for coming on Big Putting
Speaker 3: Beyond and welcome. We're so pleased and honored to have you.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well, John Andrews, And as I say, I've been at
Speaker 4: this long and I'd like to admit since believe it
Speaker 4: or not, the late nineteen fifties and into the sixties
Speaker 4: in Colorado. So I started there and expanded my research
Speaker 4: into several of the Western States and British Columbia as well,
Speaker 4: and even at one point was already to go on
Speaker 4: an expedition to Mongolia to look for the almas for
Speaker 4: the almasty. So you know, in all these years, well,
Speaker 4: I've had quite a bit here. I've always wanted to
Speaker 4: go to other areas more of a worldwide view of
Speaker 4: what's going on. And we can discuss that later.
Speaker 3: Well, John, so you said you got into it in
Speaker 3: the late nineteen fifties early nineteen sixties. Was it the
Speaker 3: Jerry Crewe incident that got you in it, or perhaps
Speaker 3: John Green or what got you going?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Hey, what a guy questioned, Because I've been reviewing
Speaker 4: my notes here and I just put down the word
Speaker 4: Jerry Crew and so you might have remembered in the
Speaker 4: well Boy Scout article back at that time, was talking
Speaker 4: about Jerry Crew, and I talked about the Go Road,
Speaker 4: which you all know about, and I visited and spent
Speaker 4: about a week back in there here several years ago,
Speaker 4: starting off with rather a strained incident even before we
Speaker 4: went in to that area. So all the things had
Speaker 4: happened there, you know, the earth moving wheel being picked
Speaker 4: up and rolled, and then culverts, and I've worked with culverts,
Speaker 4: you know, twenty foot long culverts being literally picked up
Speaker 4: and carriaging them. The thrown into a little ravine or something.
Speaker 4: When I read that, it only took me two seconds
Speaker 4: to realize something real is going on. It didn't take
Speaker 4: me long to figure out Bigfoot Israel.
Speaker 3: Now, did you ever have a chance to meet Jerry
Speaker 3: Crew back in the day or did there never made
Speaker 3: the connection.
Speaker 4: No, it was some time before we even got into
Speaker 4: northern California and going up the Go Road, hearing about
Speaker 4: the history of it and knowing that it was the
Speaker 4: one of the local bands I won't call him, tried
Speaker 4: Indian bands that actually stopped the Go Road from going
Speaker 4: into their sacred area. And it was like a movie,
Speaker 4: driving up this nice uh it looked like freshly black
Speaker 4: asphalted road and seeing the four slowly en roach upon
Speaker 4: that road, and then parking and then hiking in from
Speaker 4: there into a big burn area where we spent four
Speaker 4: or five or six days. So I never met him,
Speaker 4: but I've certainly had become familiar with that country here
Speaker 4: more recently, I see.
Speaker 3: And you were living out in Colorado at that time.
Speaker 4: You said, yeah, I was in Colorado, and then we
Speaker 4: moved to Montana after that, and I carried on my
Speaker 4: research there.
Speaker 3: Now you've been back then everybody was in contact with
Speaker 3: snail mail and phone calls pretty much, because that was
Speaker 3: only those are the only games in town. Do you
Speaker 3: remember being in contact with some of those early researchers
Speaker 3: back of the day, and what were those interactions like?
Speaker 4: Well, you know, obviously I'd probably forgotten more than I remember,
Speaker 4: but Bob Tipmas, who really was a big figure. I
Speaker 4: think they might have faded a bit now because he's died,
Speaker 4: and as you know, he spent a lot of his
Speaker 4: life as the next paid up in Harrison. Hodgeprings close
Speaker 4: to John Green, and I visited him on several occasions
Speaker 4: on my own and spent hours with him, and he
Speaker 4: told me some fabulous stories that I'm sure he didn't
Speaker 4: tell anybody else. And he also gave me a cast
Speaker 4: of his bigfoot that he had in northern California, and
Speaker 4: so I've got that to this day.
Speaker 2: You gotta tell us some of those stories.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So can you tell us something that Bob
Speaker 3: told me? Because unfortunately, Bob, to me is this figure
Speaker 3: that almost nobody knows about because the new generation of
Speaker 3: bigfooters came in with TV and YouTube and whatnot, and Bob,
Speaker 3: mister Tipmos is just this figure that we're standing on
Speaker 3: his shoulders, whether we realize it or not. You know,
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm lucky, Boba and I are lucky enough
Speaker 3: to realize it. But so many people have no idea
Speaker 3: who he is. And part of that is because mister
Speaker 3: Tipmos never really wrote much down. He recorded things on
Speaker 3: the back of footprint casts in his beautiful, flowing cursive script,
Speaker 3: but he never wrote a book. He didn't do very
Speaker 3: many interviews. He didn't really seek attention at all. So
Speaker 3: Bob is this kind of elusive, mysterious figure in the
Speaker 3: history of Bigfoot which we all need to tip our
Speaker 3: hats to. So anything you can share with us and
Speaker 3: our audience about Bob Timmas would be very much appreciated.
Speaker 4: No, I think I sure can't give you some insight
Speaker 4: into him. I really admired that guy, o end. He
Speaker 4: was small and wiry, tougher than hell. Again, an next
Speaker 4: American who ended up working for the Canadian government, I think,
Speaker 4: on a wildlife officer capacity. And he spent a lot
Speaker 4: of times plying the inner the inner passage from here
Speaker 4: to Alaska in a sailboat and in other things. And
Speaker 4: he got hurt when he was dragging his boat sailboat
Speaker 4: onto a beach with an Indian friend, and trying to
Speaker 4: get that boat off of the beach, he badly sprained
Speaker 4: or injured his back. And from then on until he died,
Speaker 4: he was in constant pain. And he tried to be
Speaker 4: civil when he was there to overcome him. But he
Speaker 4: did his best, and he traveled. He's had some amazing
Speaker 4: things happened to him in northern California, and then we
Speaker 4: took him on his last trip to British Columbia.
Speaker 3: Tell us about that a little bit.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, he spent a lot of time in
Speaker 4: northern California, and I'll start with that one. And his
Speaker 4: story there where he got the footcast was he was
Speaker 4: by himself with a dog, and we met him there
Speaker 4: on one occasion, and that he had by himself traveled
Speaker 4: up what was then a dry river bed, and evening
Speaker 4: caught up with him, and rather than go back, he
Speaker 4: laid down in the river bed and covered himself with
Speaker 4: branches and sticks and things like that to keep a
Speaker 4: little warm. And upstream from there, up dry river. From there,
Speaker 4: he heard these heavy footsteps and they came toward him,
Speaker 4: back back and forth away from him, and toward him
Speaker 4: on one side of the river, and he could hear
Speaker 4: that going on all night long. And anyway, he got
Speaker 4: up the next morning and he came out. But that's
Speaker 4: the kind of guy that he is. He nothing scared
Speaker 4: the guy. He was absolutely amazing. And he spent a
Speaker 4: lot of time with John Green, since John Green only
Speaker 4: lived about a five or ten minute drive away from him,
Speaker 4: and so they became good companions over the years. So
Speaker 4: that's how I met him. He told me a lot
Speaker 4: of stories again that he hasn't told anybody else, I think.
Speaker 4: And then we took him on his last trip. A
Speaker 4: friend and I a guy who had a little, uh
Speaker 4: like a little fishing boat, and we drove up there
Speaker 4: and met him when we were towing the boat behind us,
Speaker 4: and we took him up to Bella Coola. Now you
Speaker 4: have to go to Williams Lake from where he lives,
Speaker 4: which is maybe a four hour drive, and then from
Speaker 4: there about two hundred and seventy five miles of road
Speaker 4: into Bella Coola. And so we let him drive for
Speaker 4: a while. But I was never so happy in my
Speaker 4: life to get him up from the driver's seat. He
Speaker 4: was a white knuckle driver.
Speaker 2: Well, he said, white knuckle driver. He had white knuckles
Speaker 2: that you guys did hanging.
Speaker 4: On well, I mean he drove like a maniac. He
Speaker 4: was a fast driver to corners fast and we were
Speaker 4: very concerned about getting there alive. He seemed to have
Speaker 4: a real man. He was a real man, a mission guy,
Speaker 4: and so we drove in and then we took this boat.
Speaker 4: We spent quite close to a week. He took us
Speaker 4: back to for the white bear, their commody. You've heard
Speaker 4: about up there on Prince of I'm going to say
Speaker 4: Prince of Wales Island, where he actually saw the white bear.
Speaker 4: He put up a trap for a big hunter in
Speaker 4: order to catch the bear, and he never caught it.
Speaker 4: But while we were up there, on two occasions, I
Speaker 4: saw the white bear, their commody, up on the interior
Speaker 4: of the island, and we were just fortunate at the
Speaker 4: time we were there to have them walking along one
Speaker 4: of the beaches, and so I saw the Kramodi there's
Speaker 4: so many people had been looking for had never seen.
Speaker 4: And we saw them a day later in another area
Speaker 4: right up along right up at this island up there
Speaker 4: as well. So there's not much known about them, but
Speaker 4: they're called their Kramodi, and they're primarily we think of
Speaker 4: why white phase of the Black Bear.
Speaker 3: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after these messages. Hey, Boba, whatever
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Speaker 3: and finding Bigfoot?
Speaker 4: Now?
Speaker 2: I don't have that hat anymore. I gave it to
Speaker 2: Lauren Coleman for his museum, but I might be asking
Speaker 2: for it back because I'm getting a little nervous in summertime,
Speaker 2: getting too much so on the scalp up there now,
Speaker 2: and I'm getting bip up a mosquitoes. There's not a
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Speaker 3: I don't know if you knew Bob Tipmas for long enough.
Speaker 3: I don't know when these two first cross paths. But
Speaker 3: do you have any idea the scope of the evidence
Speaker 3: that he lost in the boat fire.
Speaker 4: No, I don't know of that, other than his stories
Speaker 4: about being on a boat up in northern Alaska, coming
Speaker 4: around a bend and literally seeing a Bigfoot on the shore,
Speaker 4: and I think that was the first time he'd seen one,
Speaker 4: and from then on, you know, he was hooked. So
Speaker 4: I don't know how much he lost from the fire.
Speaker 4: I just know from talking to him the knowledge he
Speaker 4: has and some of the places he went in his
Speaker 4: search for the Bigfoot, including northern California and the Blue
Speaker 4: Mountains as you know, down in the south east Washington.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I have a number of photographs from Paul Freeman's photo
Speaker 3: album that that were shared with me from both Michael
Speaker 3: Freeman and the Freeman family, and also doctor Jeff Meldrim
Speaker 3: who was given a photo album by mister Freeman, and
Speaker 3: there's lots of pictures in there of Bob Titmas, which
Speaker 3: is really great.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, and a little a side note is
Speaker 4: that his son just called me recently and I don't
Speaker 4: know if you knew i'd made a wax cast of
Speaker 4: a little bust of a bigfoot.
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm very aware of that. I was talking to
Speaker 3: Michael about it. Actually, great work. By the way, I
Speaker 3: want to.
Speaker 2: Hear some stories, like a secret, like something no one's
Speaker 2: heard that's a cool. Bob Tennis.
Speaker 4: Well, one of the fascinating ones is you know, being
Speaker 4: a geographer, I collected a lot of maps of coastal
Speaker 4: British Columbia that they're equivalent of the Department of the
Speaker 4: Interior put out, and it was very much like our
Speaker 4: USGS maps, And I got tons of those impatient together
Speaker 4: and made marks on things that had happened up there.
Speaker 4: And one of them dealt with two things dealt with
Speaker 4: Bob talking to an Indian band and then going into
Speaker 4: the interior not far from where they were. And it
Speaker 4: was a hot summer day and he'd hiked up to
Speaker 4: this He and his dog had gone up on this
Speaker 4: river and there was a big bluff and it was hot,
Speaker 4: and so we hitting his dog with behind this bluff,
Speaker 4: resting in the shade. Have you heard this one?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 4: Just coincidentally, he looks up and there were three bigfoot
Speaker 4: a good two cents away from him, and they were
Speaker 4: climbing this sheer cliff wall. His description was that the
Speaker 4: hair was kind of honey light and sort of golden
Speaker 4: and waving in the wind. And he watched them for
Speaker 4: fifteen or twenty minutes climb this sheer cliff wall. And
Speaker 4: his description is being so much larger than us and
Speaker 4: having a reach probably twice that of ours. They were
Speaker 4: able to negotiate an area that normally humanly we would
Speaker 4: have had trouble doing or couldn't do it all. And
Speaker 4: how they would reach up with their hand and find
Speaker 4: some small proturbance, a rock or a piece of vegetation,
Speaker 4: grab onto it, lift their foot up, and then with
Speaker 4: were not not only even all the toes, but they
Speaker 4: would find another little ledge, and generally it was a
Speaker 4: three toes. If we could tell there'd be some extra toes,
Speaker 4: they would support their entire weight on those three toes
Speaker 4: and then continue to climb that way, little by little
Speaker 4: until they reached the top of the cliff. And that
Speaker 4: was three of them that did that. And he and
Speaker 4: his dog witnessed that. And I've I've got that mort
Speaker 4: on my map.
Speaker 2: I want to see that on map.
Speaker 4: And the only other story I can think that we're
Speaker 4: down in northern California where he found with a bigfoot,
Speaker 4: you know, had thrown rocks out of the way, you know,
Speaker 4: looking for ground squirrels, and we know, you know, you
Speaker 4: all know about that sort of thing going on, and
Speaker 4: then putting out of stories of knocks, sometimes very intricate,
Speaker 4: sometimes long, and having them answer him exactly. And you've
Speaker 4: heard of that too, how they're able to instantly play
Speaker 4: back what you've done, recorded what you said, or a
Speaker 4: rock cadence that they were able to pick up and
Speaker 4: repeat exactly just as you have. So evidently for quite
Speaker 4: some time he in their bigfoot carried on this little
Speaker 4: cross communication with rocks and gosh, there's there's other choice too.
Speaker 4: I'll have to think about him, but those are the
Speaker 4: ones that stand out that Bob. Bob told me well.
Speaker 3: That that is one of the things that he should
Speaker 3: be credited with, is he's the first person to ever
Speaker 3: write about Sasquatches doing knocks of any sort. And it
Speaker 3: might maybe there's an earlier script somewhere, but the first
Speaker 3: inkling that any of us had was written up in
Speaker 3: the Bay Area Group newsletter where Bob Timmos wrote in
Speaker 3: and said, yeah, but for all the world, I'm tracking
Speaker 3: this thing in Bluff Creek and it sounds like it's
Speaker 3: hitting a log against another log. And he's the first
Speaker 3: person ever record that in writing. Whether other people knew it,
Speaker 3: and certainly indigenous people probably knew about that sort of stuff,
Speaker 3: but he was the first person to ever write that
Speaker 3: down and record it for people, so he gets that
Speaker 3: credit that he kind of is the guy that should
Speaker 3: be credited with the individual at least, I should be
Speaker 3: credited with discovering about wood dogs.
Speaker 4: And as you know, he worked, from what I know,
Speaker 4: most exclusively by himself, he and his dog, and so
Speaker 4: there wasn't anybody else there to witness what went on
Speaker 4: when Bob was out in the field. And as you know,
Speaker 4: he spent winter twice down in the Blue Mountains and
Speaker 4: you know d Duck Spring, and I've spent time up
Speaker 4: there and camped a couple of nights at d Duck
Speaker 4: and other areas in the Blue Mountains. And as I
Speaker 4: mentioned to you, Jeff Meldrim, John mynsin Skate, Derek Randall
Speaker 4: and I spent several days and nights up in the
Speaker 4: Blue Mountains here several years ago. I was fortunate to
Speaker 4: be with them and we found a bed what had
Speaker 4: been a winter bed, probably built on top of the snow,
Speaker 4: and then they're sunk down of course because of weight.
Speaker 4: And I think I've got movies of that as well.
Speaker 4: So I was fortunate at being able to go in
Speaker 4: with him and spend some time in the Blue Mountains.
Speaker 3: I was just in the Blue Mountains last weekend. Actually,
Speaker 3: so yeah. The aggravating thing is that I got home
Speaker 3: and I went back to work because I, you know,
Speaker 3: I have that Bigfoot museum. And I took a siding
Speaker 3: report yesterday over the phone, and an elderly gentleman up
Speaker 3: in Washington somewhere wanted to share his stuff with it.
Speaker 3: Before you know, he left with it, basically, and I
Speaker 3: opened my our siding report book and there's a blank
Speaker 3: sighting report page with a phone number and a name
Speaker 3: and whatever else. And I say, call this guy, and
Speaker 3: it was from the July thirty first, and it's so
Speaker 3: aggravating to me. So July thirty first, right, which is
Speaker 3: a few days before I left for the Blue Mountains.
Speaker 3: I think I was up there on the fourteenth or
Speaker 3: something like that. And I remember and so and I said,
Speaker 3: what's this about. He goes, Oh, this guy saw a
Speaker 3: Sasquatch over by Tollgate somewhere from like fifteen feet away.
Speaker 3: I oh, by Tollgate on the Highway twenty sixties. No, No,
Speaker 3: somewhere in eastern Oregon. I thinking, dude, I was there
Speaker 3: like three days. I was there like a week ago, Like,
Speaker 3: why did you and no one followed up with the sky.
Speaker 3: No one did anything. Oh so it's like because we
Speaker 3: spend days driving around just looking for water where wildlife
Speaker 3: would be, but we of course didn't find any. And
Speaker 3: had I known where a sighting had occurred, like two
Speaker 3: weeks before, I would have focused my efforts there, but
Speaker 3: unfortunately I didn't come to my ears.
Speaker 4: Well, as you know as well, there's hardly any water
Speaker 4: in that high country. As you know very well, up
Speaker 4: there springs isolated areas like that, And of course d
Speaker 4: Duck was unique because you know, it's been amplified, made
Speaker 4: into a little pond, and it makes sense that bigfoot
Speaker 4: like any other animal would come and visit that site
Speaker 4: and leave handprints and things like that. So d Duck
Speaker 4: Spring is a pretty a pretty neat area. And do
Speaker 4: you know how it got the name d Duck? No
Speaker 4: Wes Summerlin, who I spent some time with, and he
Speaker 4: took us out in the field, and that's when the
Speaker 4: Forest Service alerted me to West and all the things
Speaker 4: he had done and his little wife Peeweek. I spent
Speaker 4: several nights with him, but the US Forest Service, but
Speaker 4: have forest crew was up there of course, and they
Speaker 4: would do the work and then at the end of
Speaker 4: the week or a month, whenever it was a pay period,
Speaker 4: they would all meet at De Duck Spring and at
Speaker 4: that point they had to deduct a certain amount from
Speaker 4: their paycheck, and Atsfer got the term De Duck Spring.
Speaker 4: So there's a little history that I was fortunate to
Speaker 4: find out about.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 3: So it's also about I mean West Summerlin often gets
Speaker 3: overshadowed by Paul Freeman, when actually they were just partners
Speaker 3: in a lot of ways. There was no competition or
Speaker 3: anything between them. They're just partners and they both deserve
Speaker 3: so much credit for everything that went on in the
Speaker 3: Blue Mountains for that time period and even before eighty
Speaker 3: two when Paul saw one and started his Bigfoot journey.
Speaker 3: And tell us a little bit about West Summerlin if
Speaker 3: you would.
Speaker 4: Well, West is a hard baked little half Indian guy,
Speaker 4: you know, spend some time in the rodeo and doing
Speaker 4: a lot of guiding in the Blue Mountains. And when
Speaker 4: we were up there, we found quite a few camps
Speaker 4: that are now abandoned, you know, among others. I'm not
Speaker 4: sure if he stayed in some of those, so I
Speaker 4: know he spent a lot of time guiding. He also
Speaker 4: had a pretty significant UFO experience, and maybe I don't
Speaker 4: know if everybody knows about that, but West would go
Speaker 4: up and take a string of horses with him, and
Speaker 4: he had names for the bigfoot up there. And I'm
Speaker 4: trying to remember a lot of this detail, but he
Speaker 4: described him physically watching him and seeing them the size
Speaker 4: of the by steps on this particular individual. They but
Speaker 4: he got to know them as individuals up there. And
Speaker 4: on one occasion, his horses were up there and they
Speaker 4: were tied up for the night, and something came up
Speaker 4: and broke the halters. I mean they just pulled them apart,
Speaker 4: pulled the rope apart. So he told me that story.
Speaker 4: He also told me, and those sounds pretty far fetched.
Speaker 4: During the hunting season, he heard some gunshots going on
Speaker 4: and a few moments later a bigfoot came running down
Speaker 4: this hill and had been shot in the chest and
Speaker 4: it was blood from the chest. It ran down to
Speaker 4: a stream and he could hear it down there, and
Speaker 4: evidently it was slapping water and mud on its chest
Speaker 4: to I guess, you know, overcome the pain in the
Speaker 4: chest and get some cold water on it. So That
Speaker 4: was an amazing story that you ever heard. The Yeah
Speaker 4: that West told me he had some hair samples he
Speaker 4: found if you'd been in Wes's house. We spent the
Speaker 4: night there. What a character. He didn't have any walls
Speaker 4: in the room. He and pe we spent the night
Speaker 4: in a bed and it was just opened everybody. He
Speaker 4: must have had too many guests there. He said he
Speaker 4: felt fenced in because he loved the outdoors, and so
Speaker 4: he felt better when he was in a big open space.
Speaker 4: And so you look into his room and here you see,
Speaker 4: you see the refrigerator, you see the stove, you see
Speaker 4: his living room, and then you see the bedroom and
Speaker 4: that's where and then you had a big foot there.
Speaker 4: And on that big foot that he had made a poster.
Speaker 4: He had various things in there, and one of them
Speaker 4: was a hair sample which he gave to me. He
Speaker 4: found that up on the Tiger Mountain road. You knew
Speaker 4: that road, Yeah, yeah, it's a windy road. I've spent
Speaker 4: time up there. Of course, you can reach the Duck
Speaker 4: Spring by going up Tiger Mountain. And there's a spot
Speaker 4: up there, as you're maybe more than halfway for there's
Speaker 4: a little pass in there and of course it would
Speaker 4: be on the left hand side, and you can walk
Speaker 4: into this little pass, climb this little ten foot precipice
Speaker 4: and walk into this pass. At the time, I think
Speaker 4: Cramps had gone up there and they'd gone in there.
Speaker 4: And I found it where they had made casts bigfoot
Speaker 4: tracks along this little stream area, and it went on
Speaker 4: for a good half a mile, and I could see
Speaker 4: tree breaks eight or nine feet up off the office trail,
Speaker 4: and then the remnants of the cast.
Speaker 2: What did West teach you about the tree breaks and
Speaker 2: tree structures.
Speaker 4: Well, other than the fact they thought they were territorial markers,
Speaker 4: the fact the thing to look for, of course, would
Speaker 4: be where they twisted. It doesn't mean bigfootoul always twist them.
Speaker 4: But one of the characteristics, as you know over the years,
Speaker 4: is despite the size, would be the height off the ground.
Speaker 4: You know, they can reach up to ten feet or more.
Speaker 4: And so if this is at the nine foot level
Speaker 4: and you find them consistently, and they're supposed to point
Speaker 4: in the direction of travel often and that they'll be
Speaker 4: twisted around and around several times. That was what West
Speaker 4: told me. And that's where he found these hair samples,
Speaker 4: was up in the crotch of one of these twists,
Speaker 4: and he gave it to me and I had it
Speaker 4: analyzed by the Skeptical Inquirer. They didn't pay me, but
Speaker 4: they have a little article on me, you know, happy
Speaker 4: showing a footprint, you know, the typical thing. And they
Speaker 4: sent it back to me with a lab analysis and
Speaker 4: it came back one as unknown, but also came back
Speaker 4: as being very human and believe it or not, as
Speaker 4: being subject to quite a bit of weathering.
Speaker 3: Well, that's interesting. This must have been in like the
Speaker 3: late nineteen eighties, if I had to guess, is that correct?
Speaker 4: Ah, yeah, that sounds right, of course. The telling thing
Speaker 4: there was the idea of in being weathered.
Speaker 3: When you were working in the Blues and you were,
Speaker 3: you know, hanging out with Wes and those people and
Speaker 3: the Blue Mountain Gang. Did you ever spend any time
Speaker 3: with Bill Lowry? Because I find him to be like
Speaker 3: another Bob Tipmas figure that doesn't really get the credit
Speaker 3: he deserves because he was so flying under the radar
Speaker 3: at the time. So did you ever have a chance
Speaker 3: to meet with mister Lowry?
Speaker 4: Well? I did, and as a back to West or second, yeah,
Speaker 4: he did. Fill eclipsed by Paul. I mean we talked
Speaker 4: about this that you know, West Reserved for some time
Speaker 4: was kind of known locally, you know as a Bigfoot
Speaker 4: go to person. Paul comes in and then they started
Speaker 4: having a public get togethers in the mall. Maybe you
Speaker 4: knew about that. I did.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I know dar Addington very well and she's told
Speaker 3: me a lot about those stories.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I felt badly for Wes because I think it
Speaker 4: was kind of sidelined, you know, even kind of a
Speaker 4: different charactery. It was very colorful, but I think he
Speaker 4: felt a bit outclassed by, you know, by Paul, and
Speaker 4: I think he didn't have as much of a chance
Speaker 4: to interact with the public as he would have liked
Speaker 4: to if Paul hadn't been there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Again, of course Paul got those two pieces of footage
Speaker 3: of Sasquatches as well, and you know, visual components go
Speaker 3: so far with the public nowadays, it seems.
Speaker 4: So Yeah, they're basically basic entertainment. Of course, Paul did
Speaker 4: very well with that. As far as Lowry goes, I
Speaker 4: never met him. I just and I respected him because,
Speaker 4: as I remember, he was a warden or a law
Speaker 4: enforcement officer as well.
Speaker 3: He's like some biologists. I guess he's either a warden
Speaker 3: or some official in the Wildlife department in Washington there.
Speaker 4: And so the things he's mentioned to me was I
Speaker 4: talked to him on the phone, was something about actually
Speaker 4: seeing one, and he was flabbergacid at the sheer size
Speaker 4: of him. He just said, you would not believe how
Speaker 4: big these are, he said, I never would have imagined
Speaker 4: that they would have been a huge when I saw them.
Speaker 4: He was blown away by their sheer size.
Speaker 3: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 3: Will be right back after these messages. So we've spoken
Speaker 3: a lot about a lot of a lot of the
Speaker 3: historical thing or some of them, not even a lot
Speaker 3: actually just barely the tip of the iceberg. About the
Speaker 3: historical figures and things that you've been involved in, but
Speaker 3: you are continuing your research to this day. Tell us
Speaker 3: about some of the more interesting things that you've been
Speaker 3: able to encounter or hear or see, like have you
Speaker 3: ever seen a sasquat, for example, like in the last
Speaker 3: thirty years or so, Because my first exposure to you
Speaker 3: was at that Bellingham conference back in what was that
Speaker 3: two thousand and four or five or something like that,
Speaker 3: and I know that you just had gotten those amazing
Speaker 3: vocalizations that I still think stand is some of the
Speaker 3: best vocalizations out there at the time, and that's what
Speaker 3: you spoke about there. But certainly you've seen so much,
Speaker 3: So tell us about some of the highlights of the
Speaker 3: last few decades if you good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, well, all A said, I've never seen one,
Speaker 4: and I don't know if that's what I call the
Speaker 4: icing on the cake. It'd be nice to say I did.
Speaker 4: That doesn't improve a lot to me any bike. Can
Speaker 4: you know, you may see even maybe you don't see
Speaker 4: one stop and at night, people have fleeting glimpses of
Speaker 4: what they think they see, and then as you know,
Speaker 4: they'll fantasize about it. Sometimes they won't talk about it
Speaker 4: for months or years because it's out of the comfort zone,
Speaker 4: and so by that time maybe they don't remember as much.
Speaker 4: There's no doubt there's been tons of sidings. We know that.
Speaker 4: But all the stuff I've seen from Bigfoot, Poopy the tracks,
Speaker 4: as you know, I mentioned to its twisted vegetation, to
Speaker 4: rock structures and stick structures, all the calls the one
Speaker 4: coming up to the tent here a couple of weeks ago.
Speaker 4: There's absolutely no doubt about their bigfoot existing. And you know,
Speaker 4: I hope they never catch it. So if I see one,
Speaker 4: I'll be happy. If I don't, I'll probably be just
Speaker 4: as happy. I've come within twenty feet of seeing one,
Speaker 4: just because I'm at bumping. Paul and I are were
Speaker 4: going one direction and a guy came out from Texas
Speaker 4: Camp and it was at a place for bigfoot crosses
Speaker 4: and maybe you know of that spot bumping up along
Speaker 4: the main road just a couple hundred feet what would
Speaker 4: that be south of Texas Camp, California camp up there,
Speaker 4: and there's actually a little place in the woods you
Speaker 4: can look down and see a tunnel and evidently that's
Speaker 4: where the bigfoot crosses. And that particular evening, as we
Speaker 4: were palling beyond it, this fellow came around the corner
Speaker 4: out of the camp and later told us, well, a
Speaker 4: bigfoot just crossed behind you, and as you know, what
Speaker 4: they'll do, they'll wait until people go beyond them, and
Speaker 4: he caught him by surprise when he walked out and
Speaker 4: he saw the bigfoot. So yeah, I've been close to it.
Speaker 4: I've never seen him, but the tracks i've found some
Speaker 4: of the poop that I think was unusual I've found.
Speaker 2: Did you read that, Scott almlas Little Well wait, wait.
Speaker 3: Wait before you do what Scott, I don't know anything
Speaker 3: about this. What are you what are you talking about?
Speaker 4: Well, I've found several over the over the years, you know,
Speaker 4: up and remoteras where I found one pile. It was
Speaker 4: eighteen inches in diameter and probably at least a foot
Speaker 4: high up in the middle of nowhere. Bears, you know,
Speaker 4: I can have that pattern of eating somewhere, coming back
Speaker 4: and pooping and as you know it pickting orchards. I'll
Speaker 4: go over and guzzle down stuff, hardly eating it. They'll
Speaker 4: come back and all of a sudden they got to
Speaker 4: take a crap and it's off and with her pattern,
Speaker 4: they'll go back to the same area. I've got one
Speaker 4: where there's eight piles of poops around this tree and
Speaker 4: it was clearly a bear that did it. Some of
Speaker 4: them are huge, but this one is in the middle
Speaker 4: of forest, there's nobody around, and it clearly looked like
Speaker 4: a single deposit, not multiple deposits, and it was literally
Speaker 4: the size of a huge dinner plate and eighteen inches
Speaker 4: that I'm guessing and probably a foot high. So we
Speaker 4: found that back in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 2: How much did you pack out if you've had, like,
Speaker 2: what'd you put it in?
Speaker 4: I'll be honest, at that point, I didn't pack any
Speaker 4: of it out, But the second time I've got it
Speaker 4: in my freezer. I'm sure by now it's long from
Speaker 4: freezer Burn, but there's very remote lake off of the
Speaker 4: Pacific Crest Trail. For Paul and I go, it's about
Speaker 4: a seven and a half mile hike in and the
Speaker 4: last of east hour and a half was completely off
Speaker 4: the trail. One hundred came running out of their years ago.
Speaker 4: We said he couldn't take it anymore. And we have
Speaker 4: been back in there three times, and I've got two
Speaker 4: recording sessions where where they come into camp at least
Speaker 4: twelve times in one night. And it just showed up
Speaker 4: on my tape recorder and you can hear them coming in,
Speaker 4: you can hear them slap my tent, and you can
Speaker 4: hear them leave. That goes on for twelve times at
Speaker 4: least in one night. I'm sure they're juveniles, probably not
Speaker 4: grown ups, for probably are watching them out of the forest.
Speaker 4: Probably juveniles just having fun. I didn't listen to that
Speaker 4: tape for two years, thinking nothing happened. So there's a
Speaker 4: lesson to be learned there. When I listened to it,
Speaker 4: I was just blown away. Within twenty minutes, I was
Speaker 4: hitting the snack. As you know, as soon as they
Speaker 4: hear deep sleeping, they'll come in, not before that time often,
Speaker 4: And so you could spend a week up there and
Speaker 4: think it was more of a wrong time in the world,
Speaker 4: not knowing you had been entertained up there maybe several
Speaker 4: nights in a row, and kind of unsatisfying, but very
Speaker 4: revealing about bigfoot behavior. Oh about the poopy well up
Speaker 4: at this lake. I was up higher coming back to
Speaker 4: the lake, and I found this pile of scat. Now
Speaker 4: it wasn't huge, but it was probably maybe a foot long.
Speaker 4: It was gray, kind of a gelatinous quite gray material,
Speaker 4: looked tery like vegetation. I have no idea what it
Speaker 4: was composed of. I didn't find any animal matter in it.
Speaker 4: It looked like tutsie rolls. They had been broken, and
Speaker 4: they were in a perfect line, like it was stacked towardward.
Speaker 4: They all were a straight line, none of them overlapped
Speaker 4: each other. They were stacked like putty rolls, and they
Speaker 4: all were stacked evenly. I've never seen that. I brought
Speaker 4: it home, talked to several bear experts. We talked about wolf,
Speaker 4: we talked about bear. Oh, we knew it wasn't elk.
Speaker 4: They they had no answer for what I'd found. So
Speaker 4: I don't know what it is. I found the same
Speaker 4: thing up at this particular lake I mentioned Eastern Monroe.
Speaker 4: I found these. I get the same kind of a
Speaker 4: bunch of poope on the road in two places. So
Speaker 4: I got it here by this time. I don't know
Speaker 4: who could analyze it, but so I still got that.
Speaker 3: Well, you know about the DNA study with Darby or
Speaker 3: cut through the North Carolina University, Right, it's free. All
Speaker 3: you have to do is fill out a thing online
Speaker 3: and send it to them and they will get back
Speaker 3: to you guaranteed. This is the first university sponsored one
Speaker 3: ever and they guarantee you will get the results back.
Speaker 3: And with whatever it is. They're not looking for bigfoot stuff,
Speaker 3: even though they kind of are. We had Darby on
Speaker 3: as I yest a few weeks ago. They're looking at
Speaker 3: unknown samples in an effort to identify what they are, you.
Speaker 4: Know, and that's even better, that's the perfect setup. You
Speaker 4: don't want someone who's got a Bigfoot bias, as you
Speaker 4: well know. And some of the most fascinating books I've
Speaker 4: read had nothing to do with their interest in Bigfoot,
Speaker 4: but just by the way things that happened to them.
Speaker 4: So I would trust those people more than somebody with
Speaker 4: a preconceived notion of what they're getting. And I'll talk
Speaker 4: to Paul because we've got quite a few hair samples.
Speaker 4: I've got the scat sample, and I would love to
Speaker 4: send it to them.
Speaker 2: It's free.
Speaker 3: It's absolutely free and university sponsored. And I encourage anybody,
Speaker 3: especially you, because who have a backlog of samples, who
Speaker 3: has a backloag to send stuff to them because they're
Speaker 3: rare to go and they're waiting for samples to work on.
Speaker 4: Well you you just send me the information. I'll be
Speaker 4: happy to We will do that now. The other sideline
Speaker 4: I have one thing lead to another. But speaking of
Speaker 4: museums in general, that includes museums in India, museums here
Speaker 4: in other places, who are sent remains of primates. In
Speaker 4: some cases up in India, as you know, they sent
Speaker 4: the remains of what clearly had been a yetty to
Speaker 4: a museum there and they never heard anything again. Now
Speaker 4: I'm telling people this, you can go up and beat
Speaker 4: the woods forever. Go look in the dusty halls of
Speaker 4: the museum, go to the basement of they' lechi in.
Speaker 4: I think we're going to find a wealth of evidence
Speaker 4: on what we're looking for. In these museums. They get
Speaker 4: things that they are unclassified. They do know what they are,
Speaker 4: they may know what they are, and they simply leave
Speaker 4: them down there because they don't have a rational explanation
Speaker 4: for them. And if they'll let you in, I think
Speaker 4: you could get a wealth of information that would help
Speaker 4: us a lot.
Speaker 3: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo.
Speaker 3: Will be right back after these messages. So, John, you've
Speaker 3: brought a number of audio recordings to the podcast here
Speaker 3: to share with our listeners.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been in contact with your partner Paul. Paul
Speaker 2: Grace has been a guest on our show before, and
Speaker 2: he was telling me he was so excited about these
Speaker 2: recordings you got that you just got like a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks ago from Wanacchi National Forest. Can you tell
Speaker 2: us about that? We'll play that.
Speaker 4: Well, we went to this spot that had a long
Speaker 4: history of stuff going on. We camped out within twenty
Speaker 4: feet of a road that goes through there. We were
Speaker 4: there for a day and a half and only two
Speaker 4: cars drove by an entire time, showing you how remote
Speaker 4: it is or how unused it is. We got cozy
Speaker 4: in our sleeping bags, and the next thing we know,
Speaker 4: we hear this big, huge ruckus just outside of our tent.
Speaker 4: Paul and I wake up and sleepily say to each other, Oh, man,
Speaker 4: did you hear that? Oh yeah, what do you suppose
Speaker 4: it was? Oh blah blah blah blah blah. We went
Speaker 4: back to bed. We woke up knowing nothing else but that.
Speaker 4: I took my tape recorder home and gee whiz I
Speaker 4: started playing it and within about half an hour before
Speaker 4: all that took place, you can hear this boom boom
Speaker 4: boom boom boom boom boom, boom, boom boom right up
Speaker 4: to our tent. Right up to our tent. We have
Speaker 4: a lot of rocks and pine cones or something being
Speaker 4: thrown at our tent during the time we were there.
Speaker 4: You can hear them clunk plunk hitting our tent. During
Speaker 4: and after the big stomping goes on, and then you
Speaker 4: can hear a big moving noise outside of the tent,
Speaker 4: and that's when we woke up, and so that would
Speaker 4: be the one when they're coming into camp. So that
Speaker 4: was the first thing that happened. And then sometime during
Speaker 4: the night and now Paul tells me he has two
Speaker 4: more of those long calls or they call in a
Speaker 4: distance that David Ellis brought up and amplified and it's
Speaker 4: been looped three times, and so I guess that's the
Speaker 4: next one you'll have.
Speaker 3: Okay, so these are these will be three the same
Speaker 3: call loop three different times by Dave Ellis, like he's
Speaker 3: the guy who analyzed it and made it loop. But
Speaker 3: this was recorded the same night as the previous recording
Speaker 3: we just heard.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 3: Okay, very good. Let's take a listen. Yeah, no question
Speaker 3: about that one.
Speaker 4: Then. Yeah, now I think it's very good and we
Speaker 4: might have some more to add to that. David Als
Speaker 4: told me it's one of the more interesting recordings he
Speaker 4: has because he said there's so much going on. He
Speaker 4: thinks there's a language it's being spoken in there. We
Speaker 4: have the growls. He thinks at one point it's imitating
Speaker 4: my snoring sounds that I heard, and they were much
Speaker 4: deeper and lower, So they're imitating me while I'm snoring,
Speaker 4: and then when I'm turning back and forth having a
Speaker 4: rough night of it, that they're taking advantage of that
Speaker 4: and making a lot of noise in the background. So
Speaker 4: he's got a ton of things going on during that
Speaker 4: particular evening when and Paul and I are concerned, by
Speaker 4: the way about going back up there because a lady disappeared.
Speaker 4: I guess we talked about that. No, Yeah, this is
Speaker 4: a scary part about. There was a lady from the
Speaker 4: University of Washington, an older lady. Gosh, she probably my
Speaker 4: age makes her ancient, right, So she's up there, and
Speaker 4: this has been several years ago when she parked right
Speaker 4: across from where we spent the night, and she was
Speaker 4: up I think in the fall picking mushrooms, and she
Speaker 4: knew there. If she'd been up there, she wasn't a
Speaker 4: stranger to the outdoors. She disappeared without a trace and
Speaker 4: they never found her, and Paul was involved in the
Speaker 4: manhunt for her. The dogs traced her to a certain
Speaker 4: area a short distance away and they lost it and
Speaker 4: nothing was found there. Was no indications of a struggle,
Speaker 4: no blood, no claw marks, nothing. She just simply vanished.
Speaker 4: And so when we hear those aggressive sounds come up
Speaker 4: to our car, up to our tent, we're just kind
Speaker 4: of wondering kind of what we're doing there, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Paul told me. He he says he's there twenty
Speaker 2: years by himself, like no words, he said, now he
Speaker 2: will not go there alone anymore.
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, we both agreed that we're and I fact,
Speaker 4: i'd recommend everybody, of course, never go by yourself. I
Speaker 4: used to go a lot by myself when I was ignorant.
Speaker 4: Getting older now and I've had a good life. If
Speaker 4: it ends, and you know, I had a lot happen,
Speaker 4: but I don't want it to end that way. And
Speaker 4: we know there's been things are going on in the peninsula.
Speaker 4: I've got stories about another one, as you know, about
Speaker 4: up at the border of Canada, a horrible thing that happened.
Speaker 3: Up there with the Sasquatch.
Speaker 4: Yeah outliers.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, yeah, why don't we save that for the
Speaker 3: members section because I'd like to hear about those stories.
Speaker 3: Because I'm advocate. I'm an advocate, and I try to
Speaker 3: say this as much as possible, that these are not
Speaker 3: your forest friends. These are not you know, necessarily benign
Speaker 3: beings that are you know, looking out for the good
Speaker 3: of humanity from you know, the overseer in the sky,
Speaker 3: you know, as they're often painted by various people in
Speaker 3: the Bigfoot community. These are wild animals and perhaps and
Speaker 3: I don't think they're out to get us. I'm not
Speaker 3: saying that. I'm not saying that they are they're evil
Speaker 3: monsters and devils trying to get it. They are potentially
Speaker 3: very dangerous. They are wild animals that are very human
Speaker 3: like in a lot of ways, which might make them
Speaker 3: even more dangerous in some ways. I don't think they're
Speaker 3: out to get us, And as evidence, I always say,
Speaker 3: look around. If they were out to get us, there'd
Speaker 3: be very few of us left. But I do think
Speaker 3: there are probably some bad apples out there and they
Speaker 3: should be treated with the respect that you would give
Speaker 3: something like say a brown bear, something like that.
Speaker 4: And I would certainly agree. And the stories I have,
Speaker 4: which are brief, you know me, I don't elaborate a lot,
Speaker 4: but the two I know about repeating the public is
Speaker 4: hard for me because I don't want people to think
Speaker 4: every time they go out, they're going to disappear. And
Speaker 4: yet when you hear these stories, if I know the area,
Speaker 4: which I do know, I wouldn't go there. Period.
Speaker 3: You always bring a shark cage.
Speaker 4: Yeah right, you're in it.
Speaker 2: Not them.
Speaker 3: You know exactly exactly.
Speaker 4: Who you protected? You well, number one, I guess. Well.
Speaker 4: The other thing is we have to recognize we know
Speaker 4: nothing about the calls we put out, at least mostly
Speaker 4: what are we saying to them. Number two is we
Speaker 4: may be very close to their heartland. They're going to
Speaker 4: be stressed out if we get too close to them.
Speaker 4: We know none of these things, and we can put
Speaker 4: ourselves right in harms way migration routes and things like
Speaker 4: that and not even know it. And so there's so
Speaker 4: much we don't know we could put ourselves in harm's way.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, well, let's let's perhaps maybe end this
Speaker 3: session and go on to the member session and we
Speaker 3: can hear about those stories and kind of compare notes
Speaker 3: with some of the other things that we've heard about
Speaker 3: sasquatches being less than friendly. All right, well, John, thank
Speaker 3: you so much for coming on and spending the last
Speaker 3: hour with us. We're going to continue this conversation in
Speaker 3: our members section in just a few minutes, and everybody
Speaker 3: can listen to that on Thursday. If you're a member,
Speaker 3: if you want to become a member, he can go
Speaker 3: to Big, Bigfoot and Beyond podcast dot com and hit
Speaker 3: the membership button and I'll tell you all about it.
Speaker 3: But in the meantime, thank you very much John for
Speaker 3: being on the podcast with us. We really do appreciate
Speaker 3: you sharing some of your experiences with us.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Bobo, Cliff and Matt.
Speaker 2: It was a long time getting on here, but it
Speaker 2: was worth it. I mean, it's been a couple of
Speaker 2: years I've been trying to get you going, so yeah,
Speaker 2: thanks for showing up.
Speaker 4: John, I know, no, no, thank you so much for
Speaker 4: having me, Bobo. This has been nice training for me.
Speaker 2: All right. Well, cool, folks. That's John Andrews from Washington State.
Speaker 2: He's got some ongoing stuff. Now we're gonna hear more
Speaker 2: from him and Paul. They got some stuff they're working on.
Speaker 2: We'll be bringing them back on probably the next couple
Speaker 2: of months. But until then, you guys know what to
Speaker 2: do out there. Y'all. Keep it squatchy.
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
Speaker 3: If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
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