WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:05.480 Ask not what your country can do for you, ask 2 00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:07.480 what you can do for your country. 3 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:14.560 Mister gorbitchaw tear down this wall. It's the ricochetfon guest. 4 00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:16.879 I'm James Lillings, General Siegel, your cooks out this week, 5 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:18.679 but Stephen Hayward is with us to talk to Jason 6 00:00:18.679 --> 00:00:21.920 Willik at the Washington Post about all this deep ortation 7 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:24.559 stuff and more so, let's advertise a podcast. 8 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:28.480 Photos have emerged of Senator Van Holland sipping what appears 9 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:32.320 to be Margarita's with the Bradio Garcia down in Al Salvador. 10 00:00:32.439 --> 00:00:35.280 Do you encourage other Democrats to fly down Al Salvador 11 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:38.600 to meet with this illegal alien who's an acute I 12 00:00:38.719 --> 00:00:41.359 like this guy. See now, this is this is the 13 00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:44.000 kind of a reporter. We're like, there aren't enough of them. 14 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:46.240 We got to get some more of them. Welcome everybody. 15 00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:49.600 This is the Ricochet Podcast, number seven, one hundred and 16 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:53.479 thirty seven. As we're getting those numbers that resemble Boeing 17 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:58.960 aircraft again. I'm James Lylyx and orbed as I'll probably 18 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:01.640 be called if I'm grabbed out of my house and 19 00:01:01.799 --> 00:01:05.280 thrown onto a plane and dropped off Neill Salvador, Minnesota, Dad, 20 00:01:05.959 --> 00:01:08.159 and I'm joined not by Charles C. W. Cook, who's 21 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:11.400 off rastling gators in the Everglades this week, but by 22 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:17.040 Stephen Hayward. Stephen, Welcome, Hi, James Gould, to see you again. Indeed, indeed, well, 23 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:20.000 it has been a week and it's you know, it's 24 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:21.840 kind of a nice week where a story that began 25 00:01:21.959 --> 00:01:23.719 the week turns out to be dominating things at the 26 00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:26.120 end of the week as well. But beneath that, and 27 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:30.040 we'll talk about that with our guest later. Recent news 28 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:36.079 that had had seems to be under some stress rejecting 29 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:39.239 the demands that the administration has said. The administration says, 30 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:43.040 you know what, you've been letting anti Semitism run rampant 31 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:46.560 on your campus. And unspoken, perhaps, or I don't know, 32 00:01:46.599 --> 00:01:49.920 maybe spoken is the idea that you have promulgated a 33 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:53.319 variety of anti American ideas in your leftist administration, and 34 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:55.680 hence we are under no obligation to send you any money, 35 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:58.599 according to the and so I think it's about two 36 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:01.239 point two billion in grand send some other stuff in 37 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:04.239 the contracts, and it's not just money handed to them, 38 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:06.079 and it's not like one somebody walks over with a 39 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:08.360 check for two point two billion dollars. From what I understand, 40 00:02:08.400 --> 00:02:10.319 it has to do with funding of certain things and 41 00:02:10.360 --> 00:02:12.560 certain things and this and that, and if we take 42 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:16.000 that funding away, then the imminent cure for cancer will 43 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:23.240 be lost, et cetera. But Harvard has said no, no, sorry. 44 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:25.520 One of the things that seemed to be bulking at, 45 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:27.479 and people can argue about whether or not it is 46 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:29.800 the position and the right of an administration to put 47 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:33.719 demands like this on an institution, is the requirement that 48 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:38.120 they hire a critical mass of intellectually diverse staff. And 49 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:42.439 I find this interesting because, I mean, we're seeing manifest 50 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:46.919 almost every week, if not every day, an explicit act 51 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:50.360 that conforms with things that the right has been complaining 52 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:53.680 about for a long time. Right, I mean, the writer 53 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:58.000 has been saying, you know, you, you parade around your 54 00:02:58.039 --> 00:03:01.360 notions and your examplars ofsity, but actually you are not 55 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:05.520 diverse at all. You are your diversity consists of immutable 56 00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:12.319 personal racial identifiers. Intellectual diversity is what used to characterize 57 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:14.719 the institution, and you don't have that, and if you 58 00:03:14.759 --> 00:03:17.479 don't work towards it, we're not going to give you 59 00:03:17.479 --> 00:03:21.039 any money. So, ay, Stephen, tell me what you think 60 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:23.000 about Harvard's reaction, how you think it's going to play 61 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:25.479 out and be whether or not you think it is 62 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:29.080 wise to actually do the thing that people have been 63 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:32.240 wanting to do for an awful long time, which is reshape, 64 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:36.520 reform and reset the idea of diversity. Yeah. So I mean, 65 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:37.680 I guess in reverse order. 66 00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:40.560 I think, yes, it may not be wise, but it 67 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:44.719 is now necessary. I mean conservatives and also a lot 68 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:48.000 of I think smarter liberals have been acknowledging for years 69 00:03:48.039 --> 00:03:53.159 now that universities have become just cesspools of narrow ideological conformity, 70 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:57.039 but nothing was ever done about it. And two points 71 00:03:57.080 --> 00:04:00.879 I make among many more is we talk about diversity, 72 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:03.919 but there's no viewpoint diversity, and so commitment to free 73 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:08.159 speech is really insufficient when there's no one there to 74 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:12.120 offer a contrariyant opinion to the campus orthodoxy. So it 75 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:14.199 amounts to nothing to say, oh, we're going to redouble 76 00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:17.399 our efforts for free speech. The second thing is on diversity. 77 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:20.720 You know, Thomas Sole likes to say, next time you 78 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:24.040 hear an administrator say we're committed to diversity, ask them 79 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:27.480 how many Republicans they have in their sociology department, and 80 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:30.199 you want to talk about, you know, the demand of 81 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:35.800 the Trump people that they hires more intellectual diversity, something 82 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:38.680 that listeners and the general public are not aware of. 83 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:40.680 It's the great move in the last five ten years 84 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:43.079 at elite university is actually all over the place for 85 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:46.879 what they call cluster hires. And of course right away 86 00:04:47.800 --> 00:04:51.879 we will joke about what particular now as four utter 87 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:54.600 word is missing from that. But the cluster hires all 88 00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:57.560 say we want to increase in the interests of diversity, 89 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:02.160 underrepresented minorities, and it's always in ethnic studies, you know, 90 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:06.240 feminist studies, maybe history and so forth. And in other words, 91 00:05:06.439 --> 00:05:09.680 cluster hires mean let's hire six or more leftists all 92 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:12.439 at once and install them. Now, I've always thought that 93 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.680 the idea that you should require demand that universities self 94 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:18.639 consciously hire some conservatives was a defective idea for a 95 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:21.600 lot of reasons. But I'm also reminded of Churchill's great 96 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:24.279 line that democracy is the worst form of government except 97 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:26.519 for all the others that have ever been tried. And 98 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:28.480 we now have come to the point where the only 99 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:31.120 way Harvard and other elite universities are going to reform 100 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:33.360 is if they're hit in the head repeatedly with a hammer, 101 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:36.000 because otherwise it's not going to change. And so I'm 102 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:39.040 all for what Trump's doing, even the unreasonable demands, which 103 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:42.439 I think were designed intentionally to make Harvard say no, because, 104 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:45.040 by the way, if Harvard capitulates, no other university in 105 00:05:45.079 --> 00:05:46.480 the country could possibly hold out. 106 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:51.360 Well, when you say to people, you know, you talk 107 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:55.079 about diversity, yet have you hired any Republicans? They will 108 00:05:55.120 --> 00:05:59.319 hear that as somebody going to, you know, a conclave 109 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:02.160 of a nestists and saying, well, how many Kovorchians have 110 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:06.240 you hired? Right, it's not as something that they regard 111 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:09.480 as necessary or even welcome within the field of academia, 112 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:14.720 because they may perhaps have a rather ancient, crusty, bigoted, 113 00:06:15.079 --> 00:06:20.160 narrow view of what a conservative is. I mean, there 114 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:22.040 are people, and you see this all the time, unfortunately, 115 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:27.560 when you're sometimes hearing college protesters vent their spleen that 116 00:06:27.920 --> 00:06:30.079 to be on the right is to have a set 117 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.519 of ideas that is contrary to truth. Not necessarily just 118 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:37.000 another way of looking at it, but anti science, anti truth, 119 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:40.240 anti all the wonderful things that we know, and therefore, 120 00:06:40.360 --> 00:06:43.879 why would you include these people in your institution the 121 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:48.680 idea of both sides ism, It just strikes them as 122 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:51.240 trafficking with evil, so it's hard for them to make 123 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:54.079 the leap and say, no, there actually is a conservative 124 00:06:54.079 --> 00:06:57.439 position grounded in a few other ideas, that approaches these 125 00:06:57.800 --> 00:07:01.720 topics that we all are concerned about and finds different solutions. 126 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:03.879 And they're not insane. They're not insane at all. As 127 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:05.199 a matter of fact, they happen to be based on 128 00:07:05.199 --> 00:07:08.399 about two or three thousand years of accumulated wisdom from 129 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:10.920 observing various human societies around the globe and knowing human 130 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:12.759 nature as opposed to you guys who just want to 131 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:15.680 rewrite it. So yeah, once they get their head around that, 132 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:18.319 they might find. But you know what I worry about, 133 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:21.839 of course, is that oftentimes when institutions will hire a conservative, 134 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:25.240 they will trumpet that fact and say, look, we've got 135 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:29.319 a conservative here, and again, whenever they say that, it 136 00:07:29.399 --> 00:07:34.079 suggests that liberalism is the norm, is the default position 137 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:37.000 for any smart, critical person, And therefore, you know, it 138 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:41.040 just goes without saying there's truth and there's conservatives. But 139 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:42.399 the other part of this is I don't think that 140 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:46.079 people would be complaining about intellectual diversity, the lack of it, 141 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:52.160 so much if indeed they hadn't somehow deduced inferred come 142 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:55.639 to the conclusion that instead of just general variety sort 143 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:59.240 of nineteen fifties sixties technocratic liberalism that we all grew 144 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:02.439 up with around and the you know, the the waters 145 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:05.040 that were whose temperature was set by Walter Cronkite and 146 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:07.360 the New York Times editorial board, then instead of that, 147 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:10.759 it's become this anti American, anti Western civilization gramsy and 148 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:14.519 nonsense that seeks to upend everything and replace it with 149 00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:18.800 a farrago of nonsense that is that is contrary to 150 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:21.959 what this country was founded on. I mean, when you 151 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:24.199 when you have protesters out there in the quadrant, who 152 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:25.759 are who are saying, you know, we are here to 153 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:28.759 destroy Western civilization and maybe a one out of ten, 154 00:08:28.839 --> 00:08:31.000 one out of twenty, I don't know. But the idea 155 00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:34.000 that that idea Western sieve has got to go is 156 00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:36.519 something we've heard chanted for an awful long time. So 157 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:38.480 if you just I mean, if you had your basic 158 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:41.960 old old line liberals there, people wouldn't be complaining so much. 159 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:44.240 What it is is they detect the presence of an 160 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:49.000 of an element, a cohort that is antithetical to what 161 00:08:49.039 --> 00:08:51.879 we regard as the you know, the great American experiment. 162 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:57.360 So ah, so I again, but you're right. If Harvard goes, 163 00:08:57.440 --> 00:08:58.759 the rest of them would have to go as well. 164 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:01.600 You know, Princeton has got you know, something like two 165 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:06.039 percent of their faculty votes republican. You know Yale's it's 166 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:09.440 three percent. I mean, it's just absurd. And how did 167 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:12.720 it get to this point? Self selection, bias, reinforcement, and 168 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:16.639 a culture that just was fat and happy and unchallenged 169 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:19.039 until now. Yeah. 170 00:09:19.080 --> 00:09:21.840 You know. One of the interesting critiques of this comes 171 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:24.720 from an unlikely source. It's Cass Sunstein, who I think 172 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:26.960 is the sort of smartest center left thinker around at 173 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:29.600 Harvard Law. He wrote an article more than twenty years 174 00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:32.440 ago that in being cast Sunstein. He never published an 175 00:09:32.519 --> 00:09:35.279 article once. He publishes it six times in different forms. 176 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:38.919 But it was about what he called the dominance of conformity. 177 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:40.279 And what he said was when you get a bunch 178 00:09:40.279 --> 00:09:43.799 of like minded people together and they're only together inside 179 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:45.639 their bubble, they become more extreme. 180 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:48.440 And he gives lots of examples. Although the real. 181 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:50.279 Target of his article, which he kind of admitted to 182 00:09:50.279 --> 00:09:53.320 me indirectly in an email exchange we had was universities. 183 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:56.159 And so one of the problems that I find is 184 00:09:56.200 --> 00:10:01.559 that the presumption you mentioned that conservatives are simply crazy, wrong, bigoted, ignorant, stupid, 185 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:06.080 whatever comes about from a reinforced intellectual laziness. And I'll 186 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:07.519 give you a quick example of what I mean. 187 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:09.480 I was last week. 188 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:12.440 I went behind enemy lines at the University of Colorado 189 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:15.080 at Boulder for three days for a conference at Boulder 190 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:18.600 being the Berkeley of the Rockies. And that's why I 191 00:10:18.600 --> 00:10:21.639 missed the show last week Listeners And anyway, I met 192 00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:23.679 with a bunch of students and somebody asked to go 193 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:25.120 around with the students in the small group. 194 00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:28.440 Where do you get your news? It was predictable. 195 00:10:28.639 --> 00:10:30.840 Oh, I read the New York Times, I listened to NPR, 196 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:34.600 I watch MSNBC, and I thought, I'm gonna have some 197 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:36.320 fun with these folks. It says that's why our side 198 00:10:36.360 --> 00:10:38.919 is generally winning elections and winning a lot of things, 199 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:42.840 and liberals are losing because we also were conservatives. 200 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:44.320 Who are you engaged in the world? 201 00:10:44.360 --> 00:10:47.960 We read the New York Times and listen to NPR, 202 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:51.320 it's opposition research that makes us bilingual. See, we know 203 00:10:51.399 --> 00:10:54.279 what you're thinking, but you all never read a conservative 204 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:57.240 publication or a conservative news outlet, so you never actually 205 00:10:57.240 --> 00:10:59.799 hear any serious arguments, and you don't know what we're thinking. 206 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:01.919 And that gives us a great advantage. And I can 207 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:03.360 go on from there, but it's a lot of a 208 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:06.080 lot of uncomfortable shifting around in chairs. When I made 209 00:11:06.080 --> 00:11:08.559 that mischievous point, which happens to have the advantage of 210 00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:09.399 being true. 211 00:11:10.120 --> 00:11:12.919 Well, here you are the thinking, you know, the Charlie 212 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:16.320 Kirk of your generation, wading into these places. How did 213 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:19.080 they respond though, I mean, did anybody raise a hand 214 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:21.039 and challenge you and say absolutely, you know, we don't 215 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:23.440 read these things because we believe they are misinformation, because 216 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:25.879 we believe they are bias. I mean, did they say 217 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:30.440 anything or just shift their buttocks in a querulous way. 218 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:33.159 Well, it was one of those rambling conversations that wasn't 219 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:35.480 very sequential, so the subject got changed pretty quickly to 220 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:37.159 I don't know, all kinds of crazy things. 221 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:38.440 But it was always fun. 222 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:41.360 I mean, you know, what's the old line of fighter 223 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:44.039 pilots about a target rich opportunity. That's why I like 224 00:11:44.080 --> 00:11:47.600 going behind behind the lines at liberal universities, because whichever 225 00:11:47.639 --> 00:11:50.480 way you point, there's something you could attack and throw 226 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:52.919 people off balance. And I do enjoy that up to 227 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:55.200 a point. After a while becomes tedious and exhausting. 228 00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:58.720 Well, the end result of this probably is going to 229 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:02.000 be these these institutions will not accept the terms and 230 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:05.639 they will have the funding yanked from them. Harvard, from 231 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:07.639 what I understand, may have a huge endowment, but it's 232 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:10.559 not particularly liquid, so who knows what they may have 233 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:14.279 to do. There's also an administration press to investigate the 234 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:18.039 intellectual tempera shore, we say, of people who are coming 235 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:21.200 in from other countries, especially to put the screws to 236 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:25.480 Chinese visa holders who want to come in and study. Now, 237 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:27.799 this is something that again a lot of people have said, well, 238 00:12:28.000 --> 00:12:32.080 anybody who comes here is probably CCP connected. You know, 239 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:34.639 they may be rich enough to come here, their parents 240 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:41.080 are connected. There are we any under any obligation to 241 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:43.720 allow this, and you know, perhaps we're not. But again 242 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:48.000 this is this is being seen as as overly invasive 243 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:53.960 and of course authoritarian and fascissistic. Whereas you know, I 244 00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:57.639 if I spend a lot of my time fulminating against 245 00:12:57.720 --> 00:13:00.360 every aspect of British culture, society, politics, and the rest 246 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:02.399 of it. And I walk in with my passport and 247 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:04.080 I put it down, the thing and the and the 248 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:07.600 light goes red. I wouldn't particularly be surprised. I mean, 249 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:10.679 having been given the stink eye by a Russian passport 250 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:14.919 agent in Saint Petersburg, think branking back forty years to 251 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.039 things that I wrote about Mother Russia, I wouldn't be 252 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:21.120 particularly surprised. But we but we seem to be in 253 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:23.639 this position of you know, we walk around with a 254 00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:26.960 kickney side in our back and and encourage everybody to 255 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:28.840 give us a good boot behind. 256 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:32.039 So but James, I've had that same stink eye from 257 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:34.840 a passport guy in Saint Petersburg getting off a cruise ship. Right. 258 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:38.039 I think it's standard operating procedure. But look, I think 259 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:41.080 two points on the Chinese business. I think the real 260 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:44.639 game here is I mean, regardless of how many students 261 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:47.159 are CCP connected, probably a lot of them, but whether 262 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:51.039 they're actually spies or not, a lot of wealthy Chinese 263 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:53.559 want to send their kids to America for degrees and 264 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:55.039 also to get some money out of the country. It's 265 00:13:55.039 --> 00:13:58.080 it's a long story, but so I think restricting Chinese 266 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.960 students is not only a way of depriving many universities 267 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:03.960 of revenue because they pay full freight, but also I 268 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:06.840 think it's to cause trouble for China's rulers, because your 269 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:09.679 rich elites in China are going to be mad that 270 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:12.000 relations are so bad they can't send their kids to 271 00:14:12.039 --> 00:14:14.919 American universities. But getting back to the Harvard thing for 272 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:17.120 a minute, because I think the other target audience of 273 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:20.080 foreign students are people from the Middle East and elsewhere 274 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:23.519 who are anti Semitic, anti American. And let's do this 275 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.120 thought experiment. You know, we've heard, oh, we have to 276 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:29.960 allow free speech and criticism of Israel. Okay, fine, let's 277 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:32.919 try this as a thought experiment. We know at Princeton 278 00:14:32.919 --> 00:14:35.000 a couple of weeks ago there was a student mob 279 00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:38.159 yelling at Jewish students, go back to Europe because that's 280 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:41.039 where you're from, That's where you emigrated from. Now, imagine 281 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:43.080 if you had a group of students at Harvard who 282 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.679 said to blacks go back to Africa. It would be 283 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:49.639 a five alarm fire for weeks. The university would punish 284 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:51.399 those students, probably expel them. 285 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:52.960 And so there you. 286 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:56.120 See the asymmetry of these things. Now to deepen that 287 00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:00.480 thought experiment, would Harvard be justified in saying, say, forty 288 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:02.960 years ago or so, we're not going to accept any 289 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:06.600 South African white students who are defenders of apartheid. Their 290 00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:10.200 views are not welcome in our universities. They're poisonous and insidious. 291 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:12.679 So it seems to me that the Trump administration is 292 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:18.039 saying exactly, They're taking a consistent line about who should 293 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:19.759 and shouldn't be admitted to the United States and to 294 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:21.840 our universities. And I'm all for that too. 295 00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:25.399 Yeah, basically seems to be we kind of want people 296 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:29.879 who don't hate us and our foundational principles. We can 297 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:31.919 work around the details, but basically, we kind of want 298 00:15:31.919 --> 00:15:35.759 you to be like liking us and what we stand 299 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:37.759 for and what we strive for and the rest of it. 300 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.960 I guess that's an awful lot to ask. Hey, you know, 301 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:42.240 I want to tell you this before we go to 302 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:45.279 a guest. It is very important for you right now 303 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:48.200 listening to this, to be aware that your body is 304 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:51.759 doing something. We hope it's doing something. If it's not, 305 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:54.480 please consult a position quickly. But there's all kinds of 306 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:57.320 stuff going on behind the scenes. It determines how longer 307 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:00.240 you are, how good you feel, your energy level, stuff 308 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.159 like that. 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You know, I'm feeling pretty good 340 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:29.519 for my socials retirement age coming up here, but I 341 00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:31.200 want to keep it that way, and I like to 342 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:33.799 keep it that way with Luman. The warmer months are 343 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.839 coming spring back into your health and fitness. Go to 344 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:40.519 lumen dot me slash ricocheting get fifteen percent off your lumen. 345 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:45.039 That's Lume n dot me slash ricochet for fifteen percent 346 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:47.319 off your purchase, and we thank Luman for sponsoring this 347 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:51.400 the Ricochet Podcast, and now we welcome to the podcast. 348 00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:54.480 Jason Willock, columnist for the Washington Post, where he writes 349 00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:57.759 primarily about law, politics, foreign affairs. Gee, I wonder if 350 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:00.559 there's any nexus of that. This week, for that he 351 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.119 contributed to the Wall Street Journal and the American Interest. 352 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:05.960 Welcome Jason, how are you good? Good to be with 353 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:09.240 you guys. Well, we haven't yet talked about Maryland Dad, 354 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:13.440 but let's do it now. Administration maybe a clerical error 355 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:15.559 in March, and so the guy gets sent off to 356 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.519 the bad big House. Two of our active branches of 357 00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:22.319 government are trying to get him back, and the Democrat 358 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:24.440 Party seems to be taking an awful lot on bringing 359 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:28.279 Maryland Dad home, where presumably he would be turned a 360 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:31.119 runner to board it ELSEWHEO, You've been pointing out that 361 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:35.079 the Democrats are fighting secure his release and they're sending 362 00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:37.720 the wrong message. Shall we say, what should they be 363 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:41.400 talking about? What should the Democrats be doing if we 364 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:44.200 all as a nation want to move past this incident? 365 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:48.400 Yeah, the moment the Democrats started to make it about 366 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:55.559 Maryland Dad, and you know, you know, personally, ryanize this 367 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:59.000 one individual, I sort of had a sinking feeling, and 368 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:03.079 then lo and behold, the administration releases some more bad 369 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:06.759 details about him. Fox News reports on a domestic violence 370 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.960 complaint from his wife, and so on. You know, these victims, 371 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.000 when somebody tries to make a victim in the press, 372 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:16.279 they're never a perfect victim. And that's the wrong way 373 00:19:16.359 --> 00:19:20.400 to think about this dispute. In my mind, the dispute is, 374 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:24.359 you know, about the law and the fact that the 375 00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:27.160 administration is sort of thumbing its nose at the Supreme 376 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:30.839 Court on this case. And I think that that should 377 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:35.160 be the focus, not this individual, because most people, certainly 378 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:39.799 most Republicans agree than the legal immigrant accused of domestic violence, 379 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:43.440 suspected of gang membership, there's nothing wrong with deporting that person. 380 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:45.640 A lot of people think Trump was elected to deport 381 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:49.359 that person. But you also have to follow the law, 382 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:51.920 and you have to follow the Supreme Court, and they 383 00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:56.279 are not doing that in a pretty ostentatious way. And 384 00:19:56.359 --> 00:20:01.079 to me, that's the problem, not only constitutionally and but politically, 385 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:04.759 that's the problem that anyone who wants the administration to, 386 00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:07.519 you know, change course, needs to emphasize. 387 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:09.400 I'll give this to Stephen in just a second, Moente, 388 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:11.680 I want to respond to that one. I think a 389 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:13.920 lot of people don't care about the the Supreme Court's 390 00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:18.119 decision in this essence is because either a they believe 391 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:20.599 Stephen Miller when he says that they won it nine 392 00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:23.000 to zero, when in the back of his head, mister 393 00:20:23.039 --> 00:20:26.759 Miller may be talking about the little the difference between 394 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:32.599 facilitating and effectuating his release. But maybe they probably they 395 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:34.839 basically don't care because they saw Biden thumb As knows 396 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:37.039 that the Supreme Court when it came to student loans 397 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:41.000 and regarded that that's your tit, here's your tat. And 398 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:42.640 the other thing that I think a lot of people 399 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:45.680 are thinking is that they are absolutely indifferent to whatever 400 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:49.680 legal niceties may or may not have been respected because 401 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:53.200