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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekingana Show.

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Thomas is here for part three talking about mister Oswald Mosley.

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Are you doing thums I'm.

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Speaker 2: No, well, thank you. Something that's important to understand. There's

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a few things, and they're all related in terms of

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substantive significance, you know, mostly other than a shin Fein

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MP who was boycotting the House of Commons, he was

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the youngest member of Parliament and he was viewed as

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this prodigy and Churchill viewed him as something of a rival. Okay.

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And in those days, the Tories weren't really the ruling party.

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I mean, they weren't at all like the coalition that

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ultimately kind of morphed into the Tories was. But really

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the only thing they had in common was legacy membership

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and a kind of class consciousness that they'd inherited. The

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coalition that Mows the ultimate joined when he went to

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the House of Commons it was the Liberal Party, not

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the Liberal Democrats, the Liberal Party, which was defunct by

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the eighties, okay. And the Liberal Party had a split

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between unionists who refused to accept home rule in Ireland

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as the Civil War was raging, and guys who had

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a more moderate perspective on it. And these guys were

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more in coalition with the Conservatives contra labor and those

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days labor was a revolutionary Party, like they weren't communists,

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but they were close, you know. And mostly his big

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thing was that there could never be another war like

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the Great War. And despite the way that he's slandered

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by court historians, he was then heavy action as an aviator.

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He was catastrophically wound, it admittedly, like you know, during

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a training maneuver, but he'd been wounded an action before that,

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although not critically, you know, like I said, he was

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at Epra where you know, young Lonzo Adolph Hitler was

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was an action. I mean, Moseley was literally witnessing that

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with a bird's eye view, like he saw the first

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poison gas assault, you know, and a bunch of men

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in his squadron like went down in combat, you know.

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Like he was prone to Gellow's humor about that. So

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he wanted to salvage the League of Nations, but as

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a collective security kind of arrangement. Even when Wilson threw

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his hands up and subsequently, you know, the US Congress

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refused to ratify it outright, Moseley said, look like we

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need some kind of collective security arrangement, you know. And

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despite being despite backing the imperialist position, which wasn't a

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dirty word then, you know, he said, we've got these manufacturers,

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and if we want to continue to be a great power,

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you know, our competitive manufacturer, he needs a destination in

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these destination markets, and saying we're gonna like perpetually be

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at war with the Germans to fight over those that's

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not liable, you know. And he's like, if half the

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planet can't purchase our manufacturers, where we're done. You know.

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So he was a free trader with qual vacations, and

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in those days, like free trade didn't mean we're gonna

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throw the borders open and we're going to socially engineer

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identitarian things out of existence. Like Mosey made the point

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he was a huge immigration restrictionist, you know. He said,

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like this is going to become a problem, you know.

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And because he was an aviator, not only did he

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have a very deep understanding of the technological curve and

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future shock impacted things sociologically at scale, but he understood

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this mention the mobility of human populations, you understood also,

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like you combine that with mass literacy, with the kinds

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of things that Smangler discussed, and man in technics and

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the our decision. You know. Mosley was like something of

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a racialist, I mean, like like I am, but he

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didn't have ideas that like, oh, the colored world are stupid,

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or they're a bunch of monkeys or they He's like, look,

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these people are going to master technology, and some of

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them are are are as capable of managing it as

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a white man, you know, you're gonna have to deal

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with that reality, you know. And one of the things

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that we're gonna have to be aware of is that

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our store are gonna be swarmed kind of like with

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the world's wretched and poor, like not even by design,

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although that would you know, although he acknowledge like that

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was part of something that was in the in the cards.

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But he's like, you know, just the there's gonna be

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masses of people who can't adjust to the future, which

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is arriving with punctuated rapidity, you know, and they're they're

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going to be attracted to, as Hitler said, the works

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and structures of superior men. You know. So most it

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was a complicated guy, okay, and would ultimately caused his

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defection to the Labor Party and then his founding of

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a fascist party. Was these values that I'm talking about.

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You know, it wasn't some opportunist thing, and most of

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it wasn't this like marginal figure or this aristocrat, this

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lesser aristocrat who was out bad with the establishment, who

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struck a protest post. Like I think some people look

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at like the Roder Expode caricature and they confuse that

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like with the man. It'd be like if people like

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took like the Charlie Chaplin movie and we're like, yeah,

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that that's Adolf Hitler. He was really like that. I mean,

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I think there's some degree of that, but Hitler kind

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of features it's too much of a sinister figure in

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people's minds like these a Moseley like people don't realize

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like he he really was. He was almost like Kennedy

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was like John F. Kennedy in like his early career.

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He was like this war hero and he was a

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big womanizer because like you know, ladies all liked him.

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He looked like a matinee idol. He cultivated this kind

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of incredible aptitude at rhetoric, you know. Uh, and when

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he was basically not much more than a teenager, you know,

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you had you had parliamentarians like guys are real pedigree

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and in the UK that shit matters to this day,

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like stepping over themselves to draft him on to their

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front bench. You know, he was he was a very

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serious guy. You know. One of the things that drew

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a wedge. He he was branded a class trader and

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he was out bad with and I'll get into this

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in a minute, with the men who'd basically vouched for

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him and his coalition. He led these liberal Unionists in

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coalition with the you know these these uh, these kind

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of neo Whig Tories. Mostly he was a friend of

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the Irish in a big way. And when the Black

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and Tans, who were a bunch of great war veterans

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and most of them were ulstermen, they started putting huge

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hurt on uh not just Fanians, but I'm like regular

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Catholic people, like, it's not propaganda and the front bench

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we're getting a little hut ofer ourselves, just to be

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I want to get this, put this out front, the

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original Bloody Sunday, which was November eleventh, nineteen twenty one.

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I'm sure one of the Irish guys or girls will

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correct me if I'm wrong. That's when a bunch of

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a bunch of British Intelligence Service officers were murdered by

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the IRA. So the Black and Tans they started resorting

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to retaliation against the general Catholic population, and the front

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and bench of Unions in Parliament said, fuck them, you

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know that's our policy. You know, you would you would,

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you would, you would attack? Uh you attacked aid into

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the crown like we're gonna kill your people, and mostly

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said that's barbaric, Like you can't do that, you know.

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He's like, I can't, I can't co sign this. You

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can't murder regular Catholic people because because our guys are

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going down in theater, you know. And he's like, I

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don't care what the what the IRA though, you can't

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do that, you know. Uh So obviously the ulster man like,

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uh a corp of them looking at them and like, well,

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what do you like tags or something, you know, race trader,

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class trader, you know like that. Uh So, this is

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where he was at. And in the sixties one of

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the inter one of the when he was doing his

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kind of like round of interviews late in life. He

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popped up a lot on British media in the sixties

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and early seventies, and one of these typical uh BBC types.

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Was was, you know, trying to put him on the

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spot a matter's of race and stuff, and this especially too,

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this is one like you know, Powell was at the

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peak of his of his clout and Moldy said, look,

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you know, he's like, you know what happened to me.

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He's like, he's like the he's like my own former

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comrade has wanted to me dead because I took the

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side of the Irish, you know in a sense, you know,

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like he said that Alston needs to be partitioned and

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get part of the UK. But he's like, let let

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let the republic go. Don't try and force them into

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some kind of in the into some kind of you know,

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like like treat them as men, you know, don't and

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don't try and force them into into some kind of

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lesser dominion status as the price of a home rule.

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But he said, he's like, look, he's like I was

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in the same position as people on the right were

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who opposed the Vietnam War. He's like, I couldn't cotton

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what was going on here. You know, He's like you

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think I did that? He's like, how did that help

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my life? You know? Did that did that win me? Friends?

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Did it win me influence? You know, it's like I

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became a pariah like among my own people, you know,

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and he's like, I, what what did I get out

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of that? You know? And like he and he had

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a point because mostly regardless of what the court of

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public opinion, regardless of the tenor of it, you know,

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he did what he did according to principle. And apparently

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he was right on basically all counts. I part ways

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of them on the on the issue of and the

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issue of Ireland in some respects qualifiedly. But you know,

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I as we get some distance between, you know, his

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living memory of the warriors fades into the rear view

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mirror and the bully pulpit is no more. You know,

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people actually can speak on the twentieth century and objective terms,

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like you can't say, like mosty was wrong. Okay, what

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the the UK is a better societ now they're doing great,

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you know. I mean it's I it's not going to

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be able to perpetuate itself beyond another generation. Like like

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that doesn't mean like the white race in the UK

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is gonna go extinct or something, but it's not in

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a good place, you know. But this is key and

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I'm giving Moldy more time than probably some historical others

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a revisionist would, because he's fundamentally important, you know, and

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I don't think he's granted enough ink or enough content.

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But you know, this was a big deal, like the

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courses his career talk is a parliamentarian, I can't remember

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got into this last time or not, and correct me

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if I'm repeating myself, and I'll jump ahead. But you know,

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Lloyd George. One of the things, one of the main

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catalysts or Mosey wanting to pursue a parliamentarian's career was

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again his hero worship of Lloyd George and okay, known

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as the Shell scandal when George was the Armaments Minister

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and he insinumented himself under that role because owing to

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what was called the shell crisis in nineteen fifteen, you know,

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there was there was a cash outic shortage of shells

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for heavy guns. So the British Expeditionary Force they basically

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had no capability to bring in direct fire to bear

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on the enemy, you know, and they they got they

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got slaughtered. And Lloyd George he became he became a

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hero to the frontline soldiers, you know, airmen as well

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as as well as as the ground element in the infantry.

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And uh, you know not not just because George stood

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up to these kinds of Stalishman inturists. And George had

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an aristocratic background, but he didn't really have any clout

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with with with big business and and in the industrial concerns. Okay,

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but but mostly turning on George, George is almost kind

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of like his father figure too, you know, because, like

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we talked about, mostly had a very unhappy family life,

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despite the fact that he'd minimized that nag like he

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had this great upbringing, like he didn't. He was very

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close to his mom, but his father was what was

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a real bully and uh and and just like a

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shitty guy. And unfortunately Mosey Moseley never had his his

237
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:56,759
gambling and drinking vices, but he certainly had his He

238
00:16:56,879 --> 00:17:00,799
certainly had his pussy hunting advice me and crass and

239
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:04,640
that that was definitely not admirable. And it led to

240
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,240
some really ugly incidents in Multi's personal life, and it

241
00:17:08,279 --> 00:17:11,920
alienated him from his friends and all kinds of other things.

242
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:17,960
But you know, the so what Mosey lost by basically

243
00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:27,200
defecting from kind of liberal union slash Tory coalition. I

244
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,279
mean that they said the cats driving effect on his

245
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:32,359
personal life. You know, it can't be said to have

246
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:38,319
been some calculated decision. But it take us back a

247
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:47,160
bit how Moseley got to this point where how's it common? See,

248
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:52,960
it was a real stability. July nineteen eighteen, that's when

249
00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,440
he was rendered declared quote permanently unfit. That's the equipment

250
00:17:56,519 --> 00:18:02,119
of being you know, totally disabled or like via criteria.

251
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,920
And around this time he was hanging around a lady

252
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,759
named Maxine Elliott. Maxine Elliott, she was kind of like, uh,

253
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,839
some of Jacky's female patrons. She was like an older lady.

254
00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:21,039
She'd been a silent film actress who have some repute,

255
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,960
and she owned her own studio. And there was only

256
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,640
a handful of like actual movie studios in those days,

257
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,960
you know, like nineteen teens, like let alone like some

258
00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,400
lady and some actress like owning one like that was

259
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,119
a big deal, especially consider that the stuff was all

260
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,559
run by gangsters. You know, this was this was like

261
00:18:42,759 --> 00:18:47,000
the cusp of silver h Hollywood. But Maxid Elliott was American,

262
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:53,200
but she'd she'd relocated to the to the UK, her

263
00:18:53,279 --> 00:18:55,359
kind of common law husband. I can't remem if they

264
00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,920
were actually married or not. He was a younger guy.

265
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:02,720
He was a pommie. He was like an Englishman but

266
00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:08,920
who had Australian citizenship. He was a younger guy because

267
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,680
Maxy and Elliott was still she still had her feminine

268
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,119
wiles in the middle age. And he answered the call

269
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,160
to go fight in World War One, and and like

270
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,400
within days of being deployed to the front, like, he

271
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:25,119
got killed. So she was really heartbroken, and she dedicated

272
00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,079
herself to these kinds of charitable relief efforts, you know,

273
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,039
for like civilians impacted by the war, but in like

274
00:19:31,079 --> 00:19:33,880
a real way, not in like a lame like Bano way,

275
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,279
like look at me, I'm so great, you know. Like

276
00:19:36,319 --> 00:19:38,000
she was a little key about it, but you know

277
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,960
she threw a substantial fortune at it, like relief for

278
00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:45,119
like displaced persons and stuff like that. But she also

279
00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:51,680
she she she liked, uh, you know, she was into soldiers.

280
00:19:51,759 --> 00:19:55,039
And there's no evidence that Mosley and her like were

281
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,920
had like a romantic relationship. And by that point, I

282
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,039
mean he was at the kid he was nineteen twenty

283
00:20:01,079 --> 00:20:04,079
years old, and she was, yeah, she was. She was

284
00:20:04,079 --> 00:20:06,440
like in her fifties or something, so that that probably

285
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,400
was not on the table. But you know, she these

286
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,039
kinds of uh she had a lot of like right

287
00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:17,200
wing studs, as we'd think about it, kind of like

288
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,759
in her orbit. And she like she like young guys

289
00:20:19,799 --> 00:20:23,440
hanging around to her state and a lot of Churchill's

290
00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:26,480
cronies that kind of call honor to you know, try

291
00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:28,799
and sort of like win her favor because Churchill was

292
00:20:28,799 --> 00:20:32,000
always sort of money, you know, and and and obviously

293
00:20:32,039 --> 00:20:35,480
like they were snoozing around for money. And uh, the

294
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,680
uh freddie guest. If that's not like a Limey name,

295
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,759
I don't know what is, but he was. He was.

296
00:20:42,599 --> 00:20:45,839
He was the chief whip of Lloyd George's, uh the

297
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,759
Lloyd George Liberals in the coalition government. And he was

298
00:20:49,799 --> 00:20:52,880
actually a cousin in like a crony at Churchill. Like

299
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:58,319
he he was always hanging around and uh because of Mosley's,

300
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,880
because of Max and Elliot, it's like a for Mosey

301
00:21:02,759 --> 00:21:05,960
just opened a lot of doors for him in part okay,

302
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:11,240
And I guess she and some of her male friends

303
00:21:12,039 --> 00:21:14,440
they really encouraged Moseley and told him like, look like

304
00:21:14,599 --> 00:21:17,319
you've got to represent the war generation in Parliament because

305
00:21:17,319 --> 00:21:19,279
like we don't have a voice, you know, like the

306
00:21:19,319 --> 00:21:22,359
front fighters don't have a voice in the House of Commons.

307
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,640
And even like Lloyd George is a good man and

308
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,000
he helped us when we were under fire, literally, but

309
00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:35,519
he even he doesn't really understand, you know. So the

310
00:21:35,559 --> 00:21:38,440
guy really stepped in. It's got a Mosey's patron was

311
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:44,160
Sir Harold Nicholson, who was a really crazy guy. Like

312
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:51,920
like literally Mosey had met him when Sandhurst initially uh

313
00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:57,559
had expelled him Sanders Military Academy when Mosey was a

314
00:21:57,599 --> 00:22:00,799
cadet he had a rivalry with some other her classmen.

315
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,799
This is this is when Moses was still you know,

316
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,440
a polo player before he transitioned to boxing and then fencing.

317
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,400
But uh, this guy was some upper classmen polo star

318
00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:16,480
and Moseley straight up and knocked him out, I think

319
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,039
in the dining hall. And obviously, like much as uh

320
00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:25,480
Sanders cultivated and kind of controlled loudishness, like chin shaking

321
00:22:25,519 --> 00:22:28,279
a upper classman like that's not how we do things

322
00:22:28,319 --> 00:22:31,920
in the British Army. But Nicholson, who knew Moseley, and

323
00:22:32,039 --> 00:22:35,359
Nicholson was pretty obviously gay. He like he had a

324
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,119
wife who who left him for a time for another woman,

325
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:45,319
like very decadento aristocrat stuff. But Nicholson, I think he

326
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,119
I think it's clear like he was he was like

327
00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:51,039
literally attracted to Mosy and that was not reciprocated in

328
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:55,839
sexual terms. But Nicholson intervened and he basically pulled strings, like, look,

329
00:22:57,039 --> 00:23:01,519
give given Moseley another chance. You know it's important to me,

330
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,039
and you know you you you you want my cloud

331
00:23:05,079 --> 00:23:07,759
to approve my money so that that goes away if

332
00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:15,920
Moseley doesn't, you know, get get a second chance. But uh,

333
00:23:16,839 --> 00:23:19,759
Nicholson was an interesting guy. I mean, aside from like

334
00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:22,279
whatever the degenerate habits he had in his personal life.

335
00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:26,839
He'd been born in Tehran, you know, when when Tehran

336
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:30,839
was the capital of Persia, like properly Persia. Here's the

337
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:36,799
youngest son, uh, the Baron of karnak One, Arthur Nicholson.

338
00:23:37,319 --> 00:23:39,799
So he'd spent his childhood like all over the world.

339
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:41,920
You know, he's been posted at Saint Peter's or his

340
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,519
fought like his family posted at Saint Petersburg, the Madrid,

341
00:23:44,599 --> 00:23:49,720
the Bulgaria, to uh the tangiers or tangier things like

342
00:23:49,759 --> 00:23:57,440
ascen but uh, he you know, he uh he staked

343
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,359
out a career in the Foreign Office by the time uh,

344
00:24:02,079 --> 00:24:05,480
you know Moseley, he made Moses acquaintance. And so when

345
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:11,640
Moseley got you know, permanently uh like discharge in the army,

346
00:24:12,319 --> 00:24:18,720
Nicholson got him a job with the Foreign Office and uh,

347
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,599
you know, made make sure that he had what he needed,

348
00:24:21,759 --> 00:24:27,559
you know it. Uh. And Nicholson had a had a

349
00:24:27,599 --> 00:24:33,319
had had a heterodox perspective. Yeah, he's very much Uh,

350
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,920
he was very much part of the war party, you know,

351
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,119
once hostilities got underway, but he had no truck with

352
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:47,759
the you know, the the kind of incessant war mongering

353
00:24:47,799 --> 00:24:52,759
that you know towards the Germans that emerged from some quarters,

354
00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:54,640
you know, like we talked about in some of our

355
00:24:54,640 --> 00:25:03,640
previous series. This wasn't just demented Uh, people like advance Atart.

356
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,240
I mean, obviously people like him led the charge in

357
00:25:06,279 --> 00:25:11,200
critical ways, but the empire was really rutterless. And as

358
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:16,200
we see in America, you know, since nineteen eighty nine

359
00:25:16,319 --> 00:25:19,200
and especially in the twenty first century, you know, in

360
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,079
the last twenty five years in earnest you know, whether

361
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,440
I mean there aren't empire's original sense anymore. But you know,

362
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,200
if you're talking about an empire or superpower, or you're

363
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:34,559
talking about any political structure at scale, if it doesn't

364
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:42,799
have a dedicated oppositional actor towards which to kind of

365
00:25:42,839 --> 00:25:47,680
orient policy and can like can figure the literal architecture

366
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,319
of the state, this causes real problems, you know. So

367
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:57,079
there was this kind of need to keep Germany and

368
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,599
the figurative in literal gun sites know to a lot

369
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,680
of these kinds of government careers. But Nicholson really wasn't

370
00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:07,079
like that. And that's one of the reasons why if

371
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,119
there's something that exonerates or validates the claim that you

372
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,359
need traditional aristocracy in government as like a moderating tendency,

373
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,440
and that's kind of what underlies a lot of would

374
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:23,160
people like cons from an hop advocate, like if you

375
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,680
read between the lines, I don't I don't particularly share

376
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,559
that perspective, but it's it's a serious perspective, and in

377
00:26:31,599 --> 00:26:33,880
the story of a record, I'd say guys like Nicholson

378
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:46,519
kind of represent that tendency. But uh, Nicholson also he'd

379
00:26:46,519 --> 00:26:51,480
been close to Sir Eric Drummond who uh like he

380
00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:57,680
worked as a private secretary. Nicholson did, and A Drummond

381
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,279
was the first Secretary General of the League of Nations. Okay,

382
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:03,720
so I think a lot of a lot of Moses's

383
00:27:03,759 --> 00:27:06,200
early ideas on Okay, we can take a League of

384
00:27:06,279 --> 00:27:10,519
Nations and look forget the utopian uh you know, kind

385
00:27:10,519 --> 00:27:17,119
of uh flourish around it when it's discussed in chambers

386
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,039
as well as public wise. We we can we can

387
00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:26,680
transform this into a collective security apparatus, you know, which

388
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,440
is desperately needed, you know. And I speculate that came

389
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:37,839
directly from Nicholson, and that's uh, you know, this is

390
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:43,640
where Mosely derived uh this stuff Nicholson GROSSI offended uh

391
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:49,519
General Raisa Khan raise a coon deposed uh the last

392
00:27:49,559 --> 00:27:56,480
shot and instant it himself under the peacock throne it uh.

393
00:27:56,839 --> 00:27:59,960
Nicolson said that Raisa Khan was quote a bullet headed

394
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,960
man with the voice of a sickly child. That probably

395
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,039
sounds a lot more devastating if you if you put

396
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,640
like the gloss of an estuary accent on it. But

397
00:28:12,519 --> 00:28:16,640
this made this made this made raise a con really upset,

398
00:28:16,839 --> 00:28:19,920
and it made like all the Iranians really upset, and

399
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,440
so it made the Foreign Office upset as the consequence

400
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,079
of that, and uh, Nicholson kind of got was like

401
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,759
out bad from then on. But uh, you know, he

402
00:28:30,839 --> 00:28:34,920
but by that point, you know, he'd he'd already kind

403
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:41,200
of helped nudge Mosey along in the ways that he needed.

404
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:54,920
But the uh sorry let me call my outline here. Yeah,

405
00:28:55,279 --> 00:29:02,759
mostly when he finally uh, the constituency that finally adopted

406
00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:08,200
him was a hero which is no longer a constituency

407
00:29:10,319 --> 00:29:14,440
in the House of Commons. I I'm all bore the

408
00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:19,119
subs with the kind of finer points of like UK

409
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:26,359
jerry mandering, but it was, you know, mostly kind of

410
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,079
seemed like a good fit because if not in terms

411
00:29:30,119 --> 00:29:35,000
of true geography or class or character or vocation of

412
00:29:35,079 --> 00:29:38,400
the constituents, it was very much kind of like in

413
00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:43,880
spirit like a Middle England constituency, and you know, having

414
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,480
a guy who wasn't a traditional aristocrat, but he had

415
00:29:47,559 --> 00:29:49,960
some of that pedigree and it was a war hero

416
00:29:50,119 --> 00:29:53,240
and basically had a marshall bearing like it's it was

417
00:29:53,279 --> 00:30:00,680
like a natural fit, you know, and that's uh where

418
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:07,119
he found himself. It's uh, you know, and It's significant

419
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:13,039
too because obviously, like a patriotic guy like Mosley, especially

420
00:30:13,079 --> 00:30:19,880
like a young guy. You know, he'd he'd intended when

421
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,640
he first entertained the possibility of going into politics, you know,

422
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,960
to enter as a Conservative member of parliament, you know.

423
00:30:28,079 --> 00:30:31,720
And uh, he had no university education because he'd been

424
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:37,319
in the service. You know, he was driven basically by

425
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,119
you know, a kind of passionate like English patriotism and

426
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,559
like a belief in the Empire and you know, the

427
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:53,079
Church of England and the British Army and the fact

428
00:30:53,119 --> 00:30:56,640
that I mean, don't get me wrong, like the Liberal

429
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,599
Unions were an essential part of that coalition, but they

430
00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:05,920
were something different, you know. And this also, this is

431
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,319
why he was in demand. You know, both Conservatives and

432
00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:15,799
Labor we're trying to poach him for to fill their vacancies,

433
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,680
you know, for the reasons we just talked about. And

434
00:31:20,759 --> 00:31:25,680
the fact that he got taken in by the unionist

435
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,680
wing of the Liberals, and then upon becoming privy to

436
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:37,079
what was actually going on as regards the Crown's response

437
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:44,279
to Finian guerrilla activity, you know, he basically defected. I

438
00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:47,960
mean that that's kind of a pure crisis of conscience.

439
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,519
We can't look inside of the mind of any man

440
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,240
or woman, and even if you know somebody intimately, there

441
00:31:57,279 --> 00:32:04,119
remain idiosyncrasies that render judgments like that pig. But since

442
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,039
we can derive or speculate on the motives of any

443
00:32:08,119 --> 00:32:12,400
man in public life with any semblance of accuracy, I

444
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,119
don't think there's any case that is more kind of

445
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,599
clear cut than that of Moseley and is change of

446
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:37,319
heart as it were. But yeah, the interestingly two but

447
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:41,559
it tracks with the epoch. Well, he was an early

448
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:53,319
cheamsy and disciple, and I believe that in part when

449
00:32:53,319 --> 00:32:57,720
you look at like what the BUF program was in

450
00:32:57,839 --> 00:33:04,880
terms of how it broke down management of a labor

451
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:10,680
and capital into these publicly managed corporations quite literally. And

452
00:33:11,559 --> 00:33:14,079
you know, key industry was subsidized well at the same

453
00:33:14,119 --> 00:33:18,680
time abandoning a protectionist regime of tariffs that's one hundred

454
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:25,799
percent keys, you know. And uh, I'm very much Uh,

455
00:33:26,079 --> 00:33:28,559
I'm very much an American and I'm a diet in

456
00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:32,759
the little supply sider, you know. I mean, Keynes is garbage,

457
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:36,400
and I know something about economics, but you've got to

458
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,400
put this in context. There were no supply siders in

459
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:47,000
the nineteen twenties. Okay, the idea was industrial capitalism. Not

460
00:33:47,039 --> 00:33:53,359
only does it lead to intolerably catastrophic outcomes to the

461
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:57,119
working classes, like you know, a true trafty of the commons,

462
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:02,839
a global scale, but pre information age and even pre

463
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:10,039
digital age, when you literally had accountants dealing with corporations

464
00:34:10,079 --> 00:34:13,679
that in some cases were global in scale and they

465
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:19,360
were keeping the books with an abacus. Okay, you understand

466
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,800
how people would think, like, well, the only way to

467
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,159
eliminate uncertainties leading to catastrophe and the only way to

468
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:33,800
manage critical shortfalls in you know, the ability of a

469
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,480
capitalistic structure to provide for human needs is if we

470
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:43,280
basically like plan you know from inception, you know, like

471
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,920
what our production schema is as much as possible without

472
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,599
killing the golden goose. Like that's where a lot of

473
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:53,559
this came from. Okay, and then obviously after ninety twenty nine,

474
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:55,639
it was it was just like an absolute you know,

475
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,239
that's just this is the way things are. There was

476
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,880
no countervailing tendency. That's why people, I mean, some of

477
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,199
these people it's dishonest. I'm talking about like academic types

478
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,039
or like oh you know, Hitler was a socialist who

479
00:35:09,039 --> 00:35:12,199
didn't really believe in capitalism, or you know, Moseley was

480
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,280
just another labor right, you know, but you know he

481
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,000
was also a racist. That's not that that's that's completely

482
00:35:19,039 --> 00:35:26,719
off base, just in brass tacks terms. You know. If

483
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,960
people want more complete treatment of that, Reid Murray Rothbard's

484
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,840
hifty The Great Depression, or read what read what James

485
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,280
Burnham wrote about macroeconomics, and he wrote more than one

486
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,559
might think. It's most in the form of submissions to

487
00:35:42,599 --> 00:35:48,840
periodicals and essays. But you know, the there there was

488
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,760
no really until the seventies. This this is just the

489
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,960
way people thought, you know, at least in the quarters

490
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,920
that mattered. I I cite Shumper all the time. Schumpeter

491
00:36:01,119 --> 00:36:07,280
really was h Shelter's two value magnum ope is business cycles.

492
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:13,199
It's an incredibly difficult read, but I consider it to

493
00:36:13,199 --> 00:36:18,400
be the most important statement on economics of the twentieth century.

494
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,159
And I'll die in that hill. But beyond that, it's

495
00:36:22,199 --> 00:36:26,480
also it's a director of buttal two keys. Okay, but

496
00:36:28,519 --> 00:36:39,360
that's that's viewed as very heterodotx these days, unfortunately. But uh,

497
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:46,639
but when mostly entered politics. The uh, the war was

498
00:36:46,679 --> 00:36:53,920
still raging in nineteen eighteen. You know, the degree to

499
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:59,800
which an entire generation of of British youth got blown

500
00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:05,239
to hell in France and Belgium, they can't really be overstated.

501
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,519
Like one of the things this is on my mind.

502
00:37:09,559 --> 00:37:12,639
And forgive you this too tangential or or people think

503
00:37:12,679 --> 00:37:19,119
it's a corny thing to invoke this symbolic precedent. But

504
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,239
I mean, let's know a lot of Pink Floyd lately.

505
00:37:23,639 --> 00:37:27,159
I I really liked their last record, The Division Bell,

506
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,119
and obviously that's the Gilmour era. But uh, I was

507
00:37:30,159 --> 00:37:32,719
rewatching the Wall while I was like working on some

508
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:38,400
long form stuff and uh, you know there's two uh

509
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:43,000
you know the segment where Hank's obviously Roger Waters. He's

510
00:37:43,039 --> 00:37:45,199
like this little kid and he's at the park and

511
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,719
like nobody nobody's a father. It's much like women and

512
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,840
old men and little kids. And and obviously Water's dad

513
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:56,960
died in the war. You know that that's the way

514
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:59,840
it was. It's like there's just like this missing generation.

515
00:38:01,079 --> 00:38:09,719
You know, the UK recovered somewhat, Germany bounced back demographically.

516
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:13,679
France never recovered. And that's one of the things that

517
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:17,800
took them down as a great power. But in any event,

518
00:38:19,519 --> 00:38:24,079
as at nineteen seventeen became nineteen eighteen, there basically was

519
00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:25,920
no more manpower. So there was a bunch of like

520
00:38:26,039 --> 00:38:31,400
raw teenage conscripts who were like taking the place in

521
00:38:31,519 --> 00:38:35,199
these uh line companies that had suffered catastrot like one

522
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,239
hundred and fifty percent attrition, you know, So there was

523
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,800
there was no enthusiasm to continue this conflict. You know.

524
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:44,119
It was like it was a bunch of it was

525
00:38:44,159 --> 00:38:47,320
a bunch of high school age boys like being like

526
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,039
ripped off the farm or like ripped out of the factory,

527
00:38:50,519 --> 00:38:53,119
and they're like mom and Dad's house and like sent

528
00:38:53,199 --> 00:38:56,880
to the slaughter and nobody was coming home, you know.

529
00:38:59,079 --> 00:39:02,719
So the end of the war, when the armistice finally arrived,

530
00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:06,599
there was just like tremendous kind of like outpouring of emotion,

531
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,800
no less from you know Mosey himself, who who'd been there,

532
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:20,119
you know, and when the armistice was signed. It's interesting

533
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:25,000
Mosley's oldest son, Nicholas Moseley, he said that he never

534
00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:27,079
saw his dad. He said, he said his dad was

535
00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:30,000
like impassioned and like emotional in the sense that he'd

536
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,400
get very fervent and angry. But he said he never

537
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:36,079
saw he never saw him get emotional in terms of

538
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,599
you know, losing control of his of his feelings, other

539
00:39:42,599 --> 00:39:46,039
than when he discussed the war. And Nicholas Mosey said,

540
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,280
he said, anytime World War One came up, his father

541
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:53,559
like he'd speak like with a genuine sense of horror,

542
00:39:54,559 --> 00:39:57,679
you know. And uh, Nicholas said a few times he

543
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,280
saw like tears well up in his eyes just when

544
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,960
people in casually bring up the war, and like Mossey

545
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,559
would like recuse himself like that this wasn't an act,

546
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,559
you know, and so like the enormity of his experience

547
00:40:13,079 --> 00:40:16,039
it kind of caused him like re examined things, you know.

548
00:40:16,119 --> 00:40:22,920
And he he made the statement later in life after

549
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,960
the BUF days after World War two, but before uh

550
00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:39,599
he began uh pushing uh the the revitalized uh europe

551
00:40:39,599 --> 00:40:44,199
a nation concept, Like he said that, uh, you know

552
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:49,519
the reason why, like providence or fate, I think is

553
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:53,880
what he assigned as the causal agent had like brought

554
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,320
into politics was you know, because he had he had

555
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,719
he had he had to represent like all the men

556
00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:02,760
who paid the ultimate price, you know, And he had

557
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,599
he had to stand up for Brton sn it could survive,

558
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,079
but he had to see to it that this never

559
00:41:09,119 --> 00:41:12,639
ever happened again, you know. And that probably sounds messianic

560
00:41:12,679 --> 00:41:17,199
to people who don't really understand what sort of experiences

561
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,039
like that are like. And I mean, yeah, there's got

562
00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:24,840
to be like a strong component of ecocentrism if you're

563
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:32,440
gonna nominate yourself for that kind of ambition. But uh,

564
00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:37,400
you know, it's it's not it's not a matter of

565
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:45,519
commoning cloud or prestige, you know. And the life of

566
00:41:45,599 --> 00:41:48,559
Moseley didn't it didn't go the way of like the

567
00:41:48,599 --> 00:41:51,719
life of Churchill, the life of Tony Blair, like at

568
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,119
every key juncture, mostly made a decision that put him

569
00:41:55,159 --> 00:41:59,320
at odds with powerful people and with interest that of

570
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,639
becoming inst in you know, the new establishment. You know,

571
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:08,119
it can't be said that any man would pursue this

572
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:15,679
course in order to somehow enrich himself or to guarantee

573
00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:22,440
his own posterity by you know, situating himself on the

574
00:42:22,519 --> 00:42:30,760
side that would be favorably documented by court history. But

575
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:44,960
the uh, the key kind of event too, like post Armistice,

576
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:54,480
was well, I mean, the first kind of the fall

577
00:42:54,599 --> 00:43:02,159
of Asketh as H as Prime Minister previously, which have

578
00:43:02,199 --> 00:43:07,280
facilitated Lord George's Lord Lloyd George's ascendency. That's what it's.

579
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,199
That's what it split the Liberal Party into the Unionist

580
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,199
faction and and you know, I guess it would be

581
00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:19,239
the moderates. But it was the end of the war

582
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:25,960
and the issue of Ireland that uh really brought down

583
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:32,480
the coalition and mostly and again him basically citing not

584
00:43:32,599 --> 00:43:39,519
with the Fenians, but with Ireland, the Irish is a people. Uh.

585
00:43:39,639 --> 00:43:42,559
That was an that that wasn't like the sole approximate cause, obviously,

586
00:43:42,639 --> 00:43:47,400
but it was an essential cause, you know, and some

587
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:54,559
of the so there's that too, and it I uh,

588
00:43:55,000 --> 00:44:05,079
I think that that speaks for itself. But the they

589
00:44:05,079 --> 00:44:14,559
foind a place here sorry, was his other big thing too,

590
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:22,480
that put him somewhat at odds with kind of everybody

591
00:44:26,159 --> 00:44:32,719
not just on the front bench of the coalition but

592
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,480
also the moderate labor rights were willing to reach across

593
00:44:36,519 --> 00:44:46,400
the aisle. He'd opposed the public education structure as it

594
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:53,920
existed for the same reasons that some of these utopian

595
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:59,719
progressives had, and that being that he basically viewed it

596
00:44:59,719 --> 00:45:04,320
as uh taxing the commons, the kind of put forth

597
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:09,119
at an education that was determined by the Church of England,

598
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,280
which meant that like nonconformists, you know, dissenters would have

599
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,599
really like no option and they'd be kind of like

600
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:26,400
mandated into a you know, a UH an educational paradigmod

601
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,000
odds with their culture and devised by you know, their

602
00:45:29,079 --> 00:45:35,800
class betters. But he also said that, you know, the

603
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:39,639
model has to be that the educational model has to

604
00:45:39,679 --> 00:45:43,400
be that of the Prussian system or you know, the

605
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,679
American system, you know, and again he was looking he

606
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,639
was looking basically towards you know, although obviously people didn't

607
00:45:51,639 --> 00:45:57,719
think in terms of this vocabulary literally or conceptually he was.

608
00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,719
He was looking forward and saying like, we're going to

609
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,000
have to become a superpower and change the way that

610
00:46:02,039 --> 00:46:04,840
we do things from the ground up, you know, from

611
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:11,920
our the way we approach you know, labor and management relations,

612
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,400
you know, to UH this idea that you know, we

613
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:20,800
can we can tailor our production schema, you know, based

614
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:25,360
on you know, guarding UH markets for all time against

615
00:46:25,599 --> 00:46:29,039
competitor imports. And you know, well if the if, you know,

616
00:46:29,079 --> 00:46:33,440
if the if the huns UH start to start getting

617
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,840
too greedy and in terms of markets they stake out

618
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:37,480
in Africa, we can just go to war with them

619
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,599
again like that. You know. His idea was like all

620
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:45,280
that had to stop. And you know, if you the

621
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:49,360
only way that the empire can manage those demands is,

622
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:55,719
you know, you need a population that is basically competent

623
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,079
in technics, you know, and then and there has to

624
00:46:58,079 --> 00:47:03,840
be the focus of you know, the of the educational system.

625
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,079
And this was quite revolutionary at the time, you know.

626
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:13,000
And again in those days too, state centric models were

627
00:47:13,079 --> 00:47:18,920
like a furlong conclusion in part by necessity, and uh,

628
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,760
public education wasn't this thing that's decades obsolete like today,

629
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,480
like it actually had a purpose. I mean, you've gotta

630
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:27,960
this was literally a century ago. You know. I can't

631
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,719
emphasize that enough. And nothing bothers me more than when

632
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:37,480
people should know better try and project contemporary biases on

633
00:47:37,679 --> 00:47:45,840
do test And he said too, like he he grew

634
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:54,960
upon these the kind of a lot of these, like

635
00:47:55,199 --> 00:47:59,079
a lot of these utopian progressives among them Field Marshall

636
00:47:59,199 --> 00:48:06,239
Edmund iron Stee who commanded, uh, not just troops on

637
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:12,280
the Western Front, but he'd uh served in northern Russia

638
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:19,159
with the White Army and Allied elements like he uh,

639
00:48:20,039 --> 00:48:22,519
he was very much an imperialist and very much a

640
00:48:22,519 --> 00:48:26,000
British patriot. Those are very much a socialist and most

641
00:48:26,039 --> 00:48:28,440
even the point again and again like look like being

642
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:31,639
an imperialist and being like a socialist and and and

643
00:48:31,639 --> 00:48:35,360
and and viewing you know, like the the races that

644
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,880
make up the UK, like you know, the the the

645
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:45,719
indigenous elements. You know, he's like, you know, viewing and

646
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:52,320
integral socialism. It's essential to our posterity. Those things aren't

647
00:48:52,599 --> 00:48:59,559
somehow mutually exclusive like Northerian conflict, you know. And that

648
00:48:59,559 --> 00:49:02,400
that UH is a point he came back to again

649
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:07,280
and again as the b u F got established, is

650
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:13,800
that the UH, the paradigmic class conflict, it runs far

651
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,639
deeper in the UK than on the continent. And he

652
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:21,159
acknowledged that. But you know that it it was very

653
00:49:21,199 --> 00:49:31,039
much exploited for cidical reasons by you know, by the UH.

654
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,079
And there then there's perverse incentives to sustain those kinds

655
00:49:34,119 --> 00:49:38,239
of tensions, the forrest political outcomes and to build coalitions

656
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,760
and other things. You know. It's which was absolutely true,

657
00:49:43,199 --> 00:49:47,360
you know, but I I wanted to deep dive into

658
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,960
a lot of this stuff today, because that's that's really

659
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:55,519
the context of the b U F and it uh

660
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,800
you know, and like I said it much as mostly

661
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:05,199
was uh like a qualified racialist like he you know,

662
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,800
he he had a very equitable view for a man

663
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:21,000
of his station and cast. It's complicated the uh well

664
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,519
as he decided. Joseph Chamberlain a lot I was a

665
00:50:24,599 --> 00:50:34,480
Chamberlain was a was he was he was related to

666
00:50:35,079 --> 00:50:44,000
Neville Chamberlain, and he was a liberal Unionist. He was

667
00:50:44,039 --> 00:50:48,519
pretty extreme in his opptition to home rule. But he

668
00:50:48,639 --> 00:50:51,559
also he was among the founders of what was called

669
00:50:51,599 --> 00:50:56,880
the Birmingham Education League. Birmingham was his home constituency, and

670
00:50:58,559 --> 00:51:03,239
he uh he was an advocate of uh like secular,

671
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:08,679
patriotic and mass education on the Prussian model. And a

672
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:12,199
lot of a lot of Chamberlain's ideas if you dig

673
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:15,400
into like what he said on the floor of the

674
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:19,320
Commons and things, a lot of that is like basically

675
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:23,559
like Mosey like lifted almost word for word downs that tunitively.

676
00:51:23,639 --> 00:51:26,039
I mean, there's but that's that's the source of a

677
00:51:26,039 --> 00:51:30,440
lot of it. There was you know that I mean

678
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:35,360
Mosey obviously wasn't any kind of arch unionist with the contrary,

679
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:41,119
but you know, this idea that Mosey was appropriating some

680
00:51:41,199 --> 00:51:44,960
continental tenancy that had no precedent of the UK, you know,

681
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:49,519
but trying to create this kind of pastige of a

682
00:51:49,639 --> 00:51:54,880
socialist imperatives and and you know kind of like imperialists,

683
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:59,199
uh fervor like that. There's nothing in Congress about that.

684
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:05,119
In terms of the UH. It was the political culture,

685
00:52:05,119 --> 00:52:10,679
which was then like still very much extra the UH

686
00:52:13,559 --> 00:52:15,880
and mostly too like you thought, he was taken in

687
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:20,159
by this idea that you know, oh well, okay, you

688
00:52:20,199 --> 00:52:26,119
know these reforms, especially the Posting forty eight reforms, which

689
00:52:26,199 --> 00:52:31,039
Moseley's family didn't look too highly upon, the silver lying

690
00:52:31,159 --> 00:52:34,480
that Mosley was that, well, you know this, this this

691
00:52:34,599 --> 00:52:37,559
creates new potentialities, and he thought that like, you know,

692
00:52:37,559 --> 00:52:40,320
there there could be some kind of like there could

693
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,679
be some kind of not like national pelagenesis, but the

694
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,320
kind of like revival of the political culture, you know,

695
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:50,159
through parliamentary means. And he very quickly became like disabused

696
00:52:50,159 --> 00:52:54,760
of those ideas, you know, like he he gave a

697
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:59,599
long speech, uh in support of the UH. It was

698
00:52:59,599 --> 00:53:03,360
just made and speech and supportive what was called the

699
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,360
aerial navigation build It was, it was, it was, you know,

700
00:53:07,519 --> 00:53:10,639
it proposed like kind of token funding and stuff for

701
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,599
like you know, civil aviations, and Mostly said like no,

702
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:19,039
He's like, look, the key to any other putting edge

703
00:53:19,119 --> 00:53:22,320
technology is there is us mastering you know, like uh

704
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:29,000
a national culture of a civil and military aviation. You know,

705
00:53:29,039 --> 00:53:35,400
and having been a fighter pilot, mostly had obviously a

706
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,559
lot of credibility to speak on this, you know. And

707
00:53:38,679 --> 00:53:42,400
he said the fact that a lot a lot of

708
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:45,559
these parliamentarians they were rather dismissive of him as just

709
00:53:45,679 --> 00:53:48,159
you know, some kind of young professional soldier who wanted

710
00:53:48,199 --> 00:53:53,239
to build himself up I appeal to you know, uh

711
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,639
a romantic subject matter, or they said no understanding what

712
00:53:56,679 --> 00:53:59,599
he was talking about. You know, he realized, you know,

713
00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:02,360
like my god, we're in real trouble here, you know,

714
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:11,320
especially uh looking to America and you know, even Germany,

715
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:14,480
which was in a catastrophic state at the time. You know,

716
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:23,920
they people uh in both respective states, you know, they

717
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:28,320
had they had a far greater understanding of kind of

718
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:33,960
the the velocity and the kind of trajectory of technology

719
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:41,199
as it was. You know, as it was at that moment,

720
00:54:42,079 --> 00:54:48,239
you know, the British were really lagging, you know, which

721
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,840
UH is one of the things that did the men.

722
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:55,159
You know, I believe it. It wasn't inevitable, but it

723
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:07,079
was definitely a necessary cause. One of many this UH

724
00:55:07,159 --> 00:55:11,119
and his UH A second speech he gave out aviation.

725
00:55:13,880 --> 00:55:19,440
He called for UH basically the elimination of UH, the

726
00:55:19,559 --> 00:55:23,079
kind of military bureaucracy as it existed, like the military

727
00:55:23,119 --> 00:55:28,400
and diplomatic bureaucracy, which was more integrated in the UK

728
00:55:29,079 --> 00:55:33,480
than in America except for maybe peak Cold War. You know,

729
00:55:33,519 --> 00:55:36,960
there was a he said, like why why is aviation

730
00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:39,880
civil and military? You know, why is it under parton

731
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,480
control of the Secretary of State from War and Air?

732
00:55:43,199 --> 00:55:47,159
You know, why why is there a parliamentary committee devoted

733
00:55:47,159 --> 00:55:49,320
to it? You know, they has no actual expertise over

734
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,880
the matter. You know. He said, there should be one

735
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:57,599
single air chief, almost like a joint chief's or a

736
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,719
or or like a the staff system that existed in

737
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:06,800
in Prussia and then the kaiser Reich, you know, but

738
00:56:07,039 --> 00:56:14,960
obviously not devised for the exclusive purpose of military command.

739
00:56:16,039 --> 00:56:24,000
And Churchill took notice of this and started to kind

740
00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:29,440
of like mimic what Mosey was the kind of facts

741
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,800
and and concepts that he was relaying about aviation. And

742
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:38,239
then you know Churchill let his cadres and his cronies

743
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:43,400
like later claims that were totally confabulated. You know about

744
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:49,119
suppose the supposed German UH build up an air power

745
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,199
and you know there are the ability of a non

746
00:56:52,239 --> 00:56:56,360
existent German bombers to strike at the heart of the

747
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:03,559
UK such that you know, he was in those claims

748
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,119
presenting actual aviation concepts, some of the stuff that directly

749
00:57:08,159 --> 00:57:11,079
lifted from like Moses early aviation speeches, which is really

750
00:57:11,079 --> 00:57:14,400
interesting but unsurprising and very much in character of Churchill.

751
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:22,039
But there's around this time too, like nineteen twenty one

752
00:57:23,519 --> 00:57:29,960
twenty two, you know, an immediate aftermath of him completely

753
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:39,519
falling out with the Liberal Union front bench, he started

754
00:57:39,559 --> 00:57:42,199
speaking of the current the then current epoch is the

755
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:45,199
you know, the twilight of the Gods. You know, He's like,

756
00:57:45,239 --> 00:57:47,880
we're living in a period where you know, we're like

757
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:50,880
like the passing of the Great Race. You know, is

758
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,320
is UH is upon us and like where that great

759
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:59,039
race and we're we're watching ourselves essentially march into oblivion.

760
00:57:59,199 --> 00:58:10,480
Figuratively early and this uh his model of UH aviation

761
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:17,760
management and development at national scale. It attracted UH, it

762
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:23,199
attracted a lot of guys to his corporatist model, which

763
00:58:23,239 --> 00:58:26,760
at that point, UH he was he becomes something of

764
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:31,840
a gadfly in the commons, but you know, he was

765
00:58:31,559 --> 00:58:33,079
he was he was viewed to a guy who had

766
00:58:33,159 --> 00:58:38,800
very serious ideas, at least in terms of you know,

767
00:58:38,880 --> 00:58:43,679
things that were that were within his wheelhouse. And he

768
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:50,519
attracted a lot of prestige personalities to his UH ideas,

769
00:58:51,159 --> 00:58:57,400
specifically with you know, what he was proposing about about

770
00:58:57,440 --> 00:59:03,440
aviation and uh J some technologies. It was really interesting

771
00:59:03,519 --> 00:59:07,880
and that David Irving makes that point a lot, not

772
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:12,280
specifically about Mosley, but his book The Rise and Fall

773
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:15,719
the Lufaff, which is essentially like them it all but name.

774
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:19,119
It's it's like the memoirs of Erhard Milch. You know.

775
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,639
Erhard Milch was was incredibly important to the way the

776
00:59:24,639 --> 00:59:29,000
Third Right developed and it was into being like a

777
00:59:29,079 --> 00:59:34,599
great uh, a great general of the air arm you know,

778
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:37,960
in a war hero. He was also uh he was

779
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:42,480
the first UH like CEO of a commercial airline, you know,

780
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:49,559
and this uh you know, and Lindberg is a counterpart

781
00:59:49,639 --> 00:59:54,480
of this type in America. You know, this was this

782
00:59:54,639 --> 00:59:57,039
was essential if if the UK had been kind of

783
00:59:57,079 --> 01:00:02,760
less dysfunctional, like even if even if Mosey's ideas hadn't

784
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:05,039
been a resident in the way that he intended, and

785
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,119
you know, even if even if the fascist tendency that

786
01:00:09,199 --> 01:00:11,039
have given the standard bureau of like never truly get

787
01:00:11,079 --> 01:00:14,400
off the ground, if the UK hadn't totally committed suicide,

788
01:00:14,519 --> 01:00:20,199
like Mosey would have been assimilated into the into the

789
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:23,360
ruling apparatus, and his talents would have been you know,

790
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:28,519
directed in constructive ways. That's kind of waste of human capital.

791
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:35,320
It's something, uh that it's so clear, and it's so

792
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:41,079
clearly catastrophic in not just in the UK the era,

793
01:00:41,199 --> 01:00:44,280
but it's that's kind of the seminal example in my opinion,

794
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:47,199
And I mean that that's apparent today like in America,

795
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:52,199
but there's there's there's less of an obvious pull of

796
01:00:52,199 --> 01:00:57,000
talent to draw upon or willing to dedicate their time

797
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,519
and waivers to the business and government. Then I guess

798
01:01:00,679 --> 01:01:04,119
back then obviously that wasn't that wasn't the case. You know,

799
01:01:04,159 --> 01:01:10,159
there was it was a rememberably deep pool of incredibly

800
01:01:10,159 --> 01:01:20,599
talented men. I think I'm gonna wrap up for now,

801
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:23,800
and oh yeah, right about an hour anyway. But yeah, well,

802
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:27,199
I promise I'll get into more like exciting and sexy

803
01:01:27,239 --> 01:01:29,960
stuff with the actual thought that buf and I'll conclude

804
01:01:31,199 --> 01:01:33,400
with part four. We might need to go for like

805
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,360
an hour fifteen or an hour and a half though,

806
01:01:35,559 --> 01:01:37,519
but if that's okay with you, it's fine with me.

807
01:01:38,360 --> 01:01:42,519
Speaker 1: Sure. One question, one question before we go. You you

808
01:01:42,599 --> 01:01:46,960
mentioned the spanglearean term their techniques. Yeah, can you just

809
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,440
tell everybody what technic? How you describe techniques?

810
01:01:49,719 --> 01:01:52,079
Speaker 2: It's all of those words in German that doesn't truly

811
01:01:52,119 --> 01:01:55,360
translate because of the nuanced it. It refers to like

812
01:01:55,480 --> 01:02:00,519
actual technology, like the physical stuff of technology and like machine,

813
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:05,000
but it also refers to like a conceptual paradigm like

814
01:02:05,199 --> 01:02:09,960
technological thinking. So like when when Spangler says technics, or

815
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:15,719
when uh, you know, any any kind of German political

816
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:20,480
philosopher or a sociologist like says technics, like he means

817
01:02:21,119 --> 01:02:23,960
that this entire kind of paradigm, like the actual stuff

818
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:29,239
of technology, the the modality of thinking that incorporates it

819
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:34,880
into you know, political life, that the thought process that

820
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:39,199
historically contextualizes it, you know, the moral implications that derive

821
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:43,159
from it, the kind of sociological disturbances and benefits that

822
01:02:43,159 --> 01:02:46,639
that that stem from it. It's kind of like it's

823
01:02:46,679 --> 01:02:48,840
it's it's like a Zeitgeist word as well as like

824
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,800
a word that describes like a physical thing like that.

825
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:52,599
That's what it means.

826
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:55,480
Speaker 1: Cool, all right, two plugs real quick.

827
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm having a report. I have a lot of

828
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:07,000
exciting things going on. If you visit the Substack, that's

829
01:03:07,639 --> 01:03:12,119
where the bulk of my work product is in terms

830
01:03:12,159 --> 01:03:16,880
of the podcast and like long form writing. It's real

831
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:22,119
Thomas seven seven seven dot substack dot com. If you'll

832
01:03:22,159 --> 01:03:25,760
include my social media in the description, that'd be great.

833
01:03:26,599 --> 01:03:30,440
My social media alt is at Capital ri e A

834
01:03:30,719 --> 01:03:35,760
L underscore number seven h M A S seven seven

835
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:40,440
seven And I think yeah, that's all I got.

836
01:03:41,679 --> 01:03:44,400
Speaker 1: All right, and so part four, Thank you so much, Thomas.

837
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're welcome.

838
01:03:45,039 --> 01:03:45,320
Speaker 1: Take care,