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Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekingana Show.
Thomas is here for part three talking about mister Oswald Mosley.
Are you doing thums I'm.
Speaker 2: No, well, thank you. Something that's important to understand. There's
a few things, and they're all related in terms of
substantive significance, you know, mostly other than a shin Fein
MP who was boycotting the House of Commons, he was
the youngest member of Parliament and he was viewed as
this prodigy and Churchill viewed him as something of a rival. Okay.
And in those days, the Tories weren't really the ruling party.
I mean, they weren't at all like the coalition that
ultimately kind of morphed into the Tories was. But really
the only thing they had in common was legacy membership
and a kind of class consciousness that they'd inherited. The
coalition that Mows the ultimate joined when he went to
the House of Commons it was the Liberal Party, not
the Liberal Democrats, the Liberal Party, which was defunct by
the eighties, okay. And the Liberal Party had a split
between unionists who refused to accept home rule in Ireland
as the Civil War was raging, and guys who had
a more moderate perspective on it. And these guys were
more in coalition with the Conservatives contra labor and those
days labor was a revolutionary Party, like they weren't communists,
but they were close, you know. And mostly his big
thing was that there could never be another war like
the Great War. And despite the way that he's slandered
by court historians, he was then heavy action as an aviator.
He was catastrophically wound, it admittedly, like you know, during
a training maneuver, but he'd been wounded an action before that,
although not critically, you know, like I said, he was
at Epra where you know, young Lonzo Adolph Hitler was
was an action. I mean, Moseley was literally witnessing that
with a bird's eye view, like he saw the first
poison gas assault, you know, and a bunch of men
in his squadron like went down in combat, you know.
Like he was prone to Gellow's humor about that. So
he wanted to salvage the League of Nations, but as
a collective security kind of arrangement. Even when Wilson threw
his hands up and subsequently, you know, the US Congress
refused to ratify it outright, Moseley said, look like we
need some kind of collective security arrangement, you know. And
despite being despite backing the imperialist position, which wasn't a
dirty word then, you know, he said, we've got these manufacturers,
and if we want to continue to be a great power,
you know, our competitive manufacturer, he needs a destination in
these destination markets, and saying we're gonna like perpetually be
at war with the Germans to fight over those that's
not liable, you know. And he's like, if half the
planet can't purchase our manufacturers, where we're done. You know.
So he was a free trader with qual vacations, and
in those days, like free trade didn't mean we're gonna
throw the borders open and we're going to socially engineer
identitarian things out of existence. Like Mosey made the point
he was a huge immigration restrictionist, you know. He said,
like this is going to become a problem, you know.
And because he was an aviator, not only did he
have a very deep understanding of the technological curve and
future shock impacted things sociologically at scale, but he understood
this mention the mobility of human populations, you understood also,
like you combine that with mass literacy, with the kinds
of things that Smangler discussed, and man in technics and
the our decision. You know. Mosley was like something of
a racialist, I mean, like like I am, but he
didn't have ideas that like, oh, the colored world are stupid,
or they're a bunch of monkeys or they He's like, look,
these people are going to master technology, and some of
them are are are as capable of managing it as
a white man, you know, you're gonna have to deal
with that reality, you know. And one of the things
that we're gonna have to be aware of is that
our store are gonna be swarmed kind of like with
the world's wretched and poor, like not even by design,
although that would you know, although he acknowledge like that
was part of something that was in the in the cards.
But he's like, you know, just the there's gonna be
masses of people who can't adjust to the future, which
is arriving with punctuated rapidity, you know, and they're they're
going to be attracted to, as Hitler said, the works
and structures of superior men. You know. So most it
was a complicated guy, okay, and would ultimately caused his
defection to the Labor Party and then his founding of
a fascist party. Was these values that I'm talking about.
You know, it wasn't some opportunist thing, and most of
it wasn't this like marginal figure or this aristocrat, this
lesser aristocrat who was out bad with the establishment, who
struck a protest post. Like I think some people look
at like the Roder Expode caricature and they confuse that
like with the man. It'd be like if people like
took like the Charlie Chaplin movie and we're like, yeah,
that that's Adolf Hitler. He was really like that. I mean,
I think there's some degree of that, but Hitler kind
of features it's too much of a sinister figure in
people's minds like these a Moseley like people don't realize
like he he really was. He was almost like Kennedy
was like John F. Kennedy in like his early career.
He was like this war hero and he was a
big womanizer because like you know, ladies all liked him.
He looked like a matinee idol. He cultivated this kind
of incredible aptitude at rhetoric, you know. Uh, and when
he was basically not much more than a teenager, you know,
you had you had parliamentarians like guys are real pedigree
and in the UK that shit matters to this day,
like stepping over themselves to draft him on to their
front bench. You know, he was he was a very
serious guy. You know. One of the things that drew
a wedge. He he was branded a class trader and
he was out bad with and I'll get into this
in a minute, with the men who'd basically vouched for
him and his coalition. He led these liberal Unionists in
coalition with the you know these these uh, these kind
of neo Whig Tories. Mostly he was a friend of
the Irish in a big way. And when the Black
and Tans, who were a bunch of great war veterans
and most of them were ulstermen, they started putting huge
hurt on uh not just Fanians, but I'm like regular
Catholic people, like, it's not propaganda and the front bench
we're getting a little hut ofer ourselves, just to be
I want to get this, put this out front, the
original Bloody Sunday, which was November eleventh, nineteen twenty one.
I'm sure one of the Irish guys or girls will
correct me if I'm wrong. That's when a bunch of
a bunch of British Intelligence Service officers were murdered by
the IRA. So the Black and Tans they started resorting
to retaliation against the general Catholic population, and the front
and bench of Unions in Parliament said, fuck them, you
know that's our policy. You know, you would you would,
you would, you would attack? Uh you attacked aid into
the crown like we're gonna kill your people, and mostly
said that's barbaric, Like you can't do that, you know.
He's like, I can't, I can't co sign this. You
can't murder regular Catholic people because because our guys are
going down in theater, you know. And he's like, I
don't care what the what the IRA though, you can't
do that, you know. Uh So obviously the ulster man like,
uh a corp of them looking at them and like, well,
what do you like tags or something, you know, race trader,
class trader, you know like that. Uh So, this is
where he was at. And in the sixties one of
the inter one of the when he was doing his
kind of like round of interviews late in life. He
popped up a lot on British media in the sixties
and early seventies, and one of these typical uh BBC types.
Was was, you know, trying to put him on the
spot a matter's of race and stuff, and this especially too,
this is one like you know, Powell was at the
peak of his of his clout and Moldy said, look,
you know, he's like, you know what happened to me.
He's like, he's like the he's like my own former
comrade has wanted to me dead because I took the
side of the Irish, you know in a sense, you know,
like he said that Alston needs to be partitioned and
get part of the UK. But he's like, let let
let the republic go. Don't try and force them into
some kind of in the into some kind of you know,
like like treat them as men, you know, don't and
don't try and force them into into some kind of
lesser dominion status as the price of a home rule.
But he said, he's like, look, he's like I was
in the same position as people on the right were
who opposed the Vietnam War. He's like, I couldn't cotton
what was going on here. You know, He's like you
think I did that? He's like, how did that help
my life? You know? Did that did that win me? Friends?
Did it win me influence? You know, it's like I
became a pariah like among my own people, you know,
and he's like, I, what what did I get out
of that? You know? And like he and he had
a point because mostly regardless of what the court of
public opinion, regardless of the tenor of it, you know,
he did what he did according to principle. And apparently
he was right on basically all counts. I part ways
of them on the on the issue of and the
issue of Ireland in some respects qualifiedly. But you know,
I as we get some distance between, you know, his
living memory of the warriors fades into the rear view
mirror and the bully pulpit is no more. You know,
people actually can speak on the twentieth century and objective terms,
like you can't say, like mosty was wrong. Okay, what
the the UK is a better societ now they're doing great,
you know. I mean it's I it's not going to
be able to perpetuate itself beyond another generation. Like like
that doesn't mean like the white race in the UK
is gonna go extinct or something, but it's not in
a good place, you know. But this is key and
I'm giving Moldy more time than probably some historical others
a revisionist would, because he's fundamentally important, you know, and
I don't think he's granted enough ink or enough content.
But you know, this was a big deal, like the
courses his career talk is a parliamentarian, I can't remember
got into this last time or not, and correct me
if I'm repeating myself, and I'll jump ahead. But you know,
Lloyd George. One of the things, one of the main
catalysts or Mosey wanting to pursue a parliamentarian's career was
again his hero worship of Lloyd George and okay, known
as the Shell scandal when George was the Armaments Minister
and he insinumented himself under that role because owing to
what was called the shell crisis in nineteen fifteen, you know,
there was there was a cash outic shortage of shells
for heavy guns. So the British Expeditionary Force they basically
had no capability to bring in direct fire to bear
on the enemy, you know, and they they got they
got slaughtered. And Lloyd George he became he became a
hero to the frontline soldiers, you know, airmen as well
as as well as as the ground element in the infantry.
And uh, you know not not just because George stood
up to these kinds of Stalishman inturists. And George had
an aristocratic background, but he didn't really have any clout
with with with big business and and in the industrial concerns. Okay,
but but mostly turning on George, George is almost kind
of like his father figure too, you know, because, like
we talked about, mostly had a very unhappy family life,
despite the fact that he'd minimized that nag like he
had this great upbringing, like he didn't. He was very
close to his mom, but his father was what was
a real bully and uh and and just like a
shitty guy. And unfortunately Mosey Moseley never had his his
gambling and drinking vices, but he certainly had his He
certainly had his pussy hunting advice me and crass and
that that was definitely not admirable. And it led to
some really ugly incidents in Multi's personal life, and it
alienated him from his friends and all kinds of other things.
But you know, the so what Mosey lost by basically
defecting from kind of liberal union slash Tory coalition. I
mean that they said the cats driving effect on his
personal life. You know, it can't be said to have
been some calculated decision. But it take us back a
bit how Moseley got to this point where how's it common? See,
it was a real stability. July nineteen eighteen, that's when
he was rendered declared quote permanently unfit. That's the equipment
of being you know, totally disabled or like via criteria.
And around this time he was hanging around a lady
named Maxine Elliott. Maxine Elliott, she was kind of like, uh,
some of Jacky's female patrons. She was like an older lady.
She'd been a silent film actress who have some repute,
and she owned her own studio. And there was only
a handful of like actual movie studios in those days,
you know, like nineteen teens, like let alone like some
lady and some actress like owning one like that was
a big deal, especially consider that the stuff was all
run by gangsters. You know, this was this was like
the cusp of silver h Hollywood. But Maxid Elliott was American,
but she'd she'd relocated to the to the UK, her
kind of common law husband. I can't remem if they
were actually married or not. He was a younger guy.
He was a pommie. He was like an Englishman but
who had Australian citizenship. He was a younger guy because
Maxy and Elliott was still she still had her feminine
wiles in the middle age. And he answered the call
to go fight in World War One, and and like
within days of being deployed to the front, like, he
got killed. So she was really heartbroken, and she dedicated
herself to these kinds of charitable relief efforts, you know,
for like civilians impacted by the war, but in like
a real way, not in like a lame like Bano way,
like look at me, I'm so great, you know. Like
she was a little key about it, but you know
she threw a substantial fortune at it, like relief for
like displaced persons and stuff like that. But she also
she she she liked, uh, you know, she was into soldiers.
And there's no evidence that Mosley and her like were
had like a romantic relationship. And by that point, I
mean he was at the kid he was nineteen twenty
years old, and she was, yeah, she was. She was
like in her fifties or something, so that that probably
was not on the table. But you know, she these
kinds of uh she had a lot of like right
wing studs, as we'd think about it, kind of like
in her orbit. And she like she like young guys
hanging around to her state and a lot of Churchill's
cronies that kind of call honor to you know, try
and sort of like win her favor because Churchill was
always sort of money, you know, and and and obviously
like they were snoozing around for money. And uh, the
uh freddie guest. If that's not like a Limey name,
I don't know what is, but he was. He was.
He was the chief whip of Lloyd George's, uh the
Lloyd George Liberals in the coalition government. And he was
actually a cousin in like a crony at Churchill. Like
he he was always hanging around and uh because of Mosley's,
because of Max and Elliot, it's like a for Mosey
just opened a lot of doors for him in part okay,
And I guess she and some of her male friends
they really encouraged Moseley and told him like, look like
you've got to represent the war generation in Parliament because
like we don't have a voice, you know, like the
front fighters don't have a voice in the House of Commons.
And even like Lloyd George is a good man and
he helped us when we were under fire, literally, but
he even he doesn't really understand, you know. So the
guy really stepped in. It's got a Mosey's patron was
Sir Harold Nicholson, who was a really crazy guy. Like
like literally Mosey had met him when Sandhurst initially uh
had expelled him Sanders Military Academy when Mosey was a
cadet he had a rivalry with some other her classmen.
This is this is when Moses was still you know,
a polo player before he transitioned to boxing and then fencing.
But uh, this guy was some upper classmen polo star
and Moseley straight up and knocked him out, I think
in the dining hall. And obviously, like much as uh
Sanders cultivated and kind of controlled loudishness, like chin shaking
a upper classman like that's not how we do things
in the British Army. But Nicholson, who knew Moseley, and
Nicholson was pretty obviously gay. He like he had a
wife who who left him for a time for another woman,
like very decadento aristocrat stuff. But Nicholson, I think he
I think it's clear like he was he was like
literally attracted to Mosy and that was not reciprocated in
sexual terms. But Nicholson intervened and he basically pulled strings, like, look,
give given Moseley another chance. You know it's important to me,
and you know you you you you want my cloud
to approve my money so that that goes away if
Moseley doesn't, you know, get get a second chance. But uh,
Nicholson was an interesting guy. I mean, aside from like
whatever the degenerate habits he had in his personal life.
He'd been born in Tehran, you know, when when Tehran
was the capital of Persia, like properly Persia. Here's the
youngest son, uh, the Baron of karnak One, Arthur Nicholson.
So he'd spent his childhood like all over the world.
You know, he's been posted at Saint Peter's or his
fought like his family posted at Saint Petersburg, the Madrid,
the Bulgaria, to uh the tangiers or tangier things like
ascen but uh, he you know, he uh he staked
out a career in the Foreign Office by the time uh,
you know Moseley, he made Moses acquaintance. And so when
Moseley got you know, permanently uh like discharge in the army,
Nicholson got him a job with the Foreign Office and uh,
you know, made make sure that he had what he needed,
you know it. Uh. And Nicholson had a had a
had had a heterodox perspective. Yeah, he's very much Uh,
he was very much part of the war party, you know,
once hostilities got underway, but he had no truck with
the you know, the the kind of incessant war mongering
that you know towards the Germans that emerged from some quarters,
you know, like we talked about in some of our
previous series. This wasn't just demented Uh, people like advance Atart.
I mean, obviously people like him led the charge in
critical ways, but the empire was really rutterless. And as
we see in America, you know, since nineteen eighty nine
and especially in the twenty first century, you know, in
the last twenty five years in earnest you know, whether
I mean there aren't empire's original sense anymore. But you know,
if you're talking about an empire or superpower, or you're
talking about any political structure at scale, if it doesn't
have a dedicated oppositional actor towards which to kind of
orient policy and can like can figure the literal architecture
of the state, this causes real problems, you know. So
there was this kind of need to keep Germany and
the figurative in literal gun sites know to a lot
of these kinds of government careers. But Nicholson really wasn't
like that. And that's one of the reasons why if
there's something that exonerates or validates the claim that you
need traditional aristocracy in government as like a moderating tendency,
and that's kind of what underlies a lot of would
people like cons from an hop advocate, like if you
read between the lines, I don't I don't particularly share
that perspective, but it's it's a serious perspective, and in
the story of a record, I'd say guys like Nicholson
kind of represent that tendency. But uh, Nicholson also he'd
been close to Sir Eric Drummond who uh like he
worked as a private secretary. Nicholson did, and A Drummond
was the first Secretary General of the League of Nations. Okay,
so I think a lot of a lot of Moses's
early ideas on Okay, we can take a League of
Nations and look forget the utopian uh you know, kind
of uh flourish around it when it's discussed in chambers
as well as public wise. We we can we can
transform this into a collective security apparatus, you know, which
is desperately needed, you know. And I speculate that came
directly from Nicholson, and that's uh, you know, this is
where Mosely derived uh this stuff Nicholson GROSSI offended uh
General Raisa Khan raise a coon deposed uh the last
shot and instant it himself under the peacock throne it uh.
Nicolson said that Raisa Khan was quote a bullet headed
man with the voice of a sickly child. That probably
sounds a lot more devastating if you if you put
like the gloss of an estuary accent on it. But
this made this made this made raise a con really upset,
and it made like all the Iranians really upset, and
so it made the Foreign Office upset as the consequence
of that, and uh, Nicholson kind of got was like
out bad from then on. But uh, you know, he
but by that point, you know, he'd he'd already kind
of helped nudge Mosey along in the ways that he needed.
But the uh sorry let me call my outline here. Yeah,
mostly when he finally uh, the constituency that finally adopted
him was a hero which is no longer a constituency
in the House of Commons. I I'm all bore the
subs with the kind of finer points of like UK
jerry mandering, but it was, you know, mostly kind of
seemed like a good fit because if not in terms
of true geography or class or character or vocation of
the constituents, it was very much kind of like in
spirit like a Middle England constituency, and you know, having
a guy who wasn't a traditional aristocrat, but he had
some of that pedigree and it was a war hero
and basically had a marshall bearing like it's it was
like a natural fit, you know, and that's uh where
he found himself. It's uh, you know, and It's significant
too because obviously, like a patriotic guy like Mosley, especially
like a young guy. You know, he'd he'd intended when
he first entertained the possibility of going into politics, you know,
to enter as a Conservative member of parliament, you know.
And uh, he had no university education because he'd been
in the service. You know, he was driven basically by
you know, a kind of passionate like English patriotism and
like a belief in the Empire and you know, the
Church of England and the British Army and the fact
that I mean, don't get me wrong, like the Liberal
Unions were an essential part of that coalition, but they
were something different, you know. And this also, this is
why he was in demand. You know, both Conservatives and
Labor we're trying to poach him for to fill their vacancies,
you know, for the reasons we just talked about. And
the fact that he got taken in by the unionist
wing of the Liberals, and then upon becoming privy to
what was actually going on as regards the Crown's response
to Finian guerrilla activity, you know, he basically defected. I
mean that that's kind of a pure crisis of conscience.
We can't look inside of the mind of any man
or woman, and even if you know somebody intimately, there
remain idiosyncrasies that render judgments like that pig. But since
we can derive or speculate on the motives of any
man in public life with any semblance of accuracy, I
don't think there's any case that is more kind of
clear cut than that of Moseley and is change of
heart as it were. But yeah, the interestingly two but
it tracks with the epoch. Well, he was an early
cheamsy and disciple, and I believe that in part when
you look at like what the BUF program was in
terms of how it broke down management of a labor
and capital into these publicly managed corporations quite literally. And
you know, key industry was subsidized well at the same
time abandoning a protectionist regime of tariffs that's one hundred
percent keys, you know. And uh, I'm very much Uh,
I'm very much an American and I'm a diet in
the little supply sider, you know. I mean, Keynes is garbage,
and I know something about economics, but you've got to
put this in context. There were no supply siders in
the nineteen twenties. Okay, the idea was industrial capitalism. Not
only does it lead to intolerably catastrophic outcomes to the
working classes, like you know, a true trafty of the commons,
a global scale, but pre information age and even pre
digital age, when you literally had accountants dealing with corporations
that in some cases were global in scale and they
were keeping the books with an abacus. Okay, you understand
how people would think, like, well, the only way to
eliminate uncertainties leading to catastrophe and the only way to
manage critical shortfalls in you know, the ability of a
capitalistic structure to provide for human needs is if we
basically like plan you know from inception, you know, like
what our production schema is as much as possible without
killing the golden goose. Like that's where a lot of
this came from. Okay, and then obviously after ninety twenty nine,
it was it was just like an absolute you know,
that's just this is the way things are. There was
no countervailing tendency. That's why people, I mean, some of
these people it's dishonest. I'm talking about like academic types
or like oh you know, Hitler was a socialist who
didn't really believe in capitalism, or you know, Moseley was
just another labor right, you know, but you know he
was also a racist. That's not that that's that's completely
off base, just in brass tacks terms. You know. If
people want more complete treatment of that, Reid Murray Rothbard's
hifty The Great Depression, or read what read what James
Burnham wrote about macroeconomics, and he wrote more than one
might think. It's most in the form of submissions to
periodicals and essays. But you know, the there there was
no really until the seventies. This this is just the
way people thought, you know, at least in the quarters
that mattered. I I cite Shumper all the time. Schumpeter
really was h Shelter's two value magnum ope is business cycles.
It's an incredibly difficult read, but I consider it to
be the most important statement on economics of the twentieth century.
And I'll die in that hill. But beyond that, it's
also it's a director of buttal two keys. Okay, but
that's that's viewed as very heterodotx these days, unfortunately. But uh,
but when mostly entered politics. The uh, the war was
still raging in nineteen eighteen. You know, the degree to
which an entire generation of of British youth got blown
to hell in France and Belgium, they can't really be overstated.
Like one of the things this is on my mind.
And forgive you this too tangential or or people think
it's a corny thing to invoke this symbolic precedent. But
I mean, let's know a lot of Pink Floyd lately.
I I really liked their last record, The Division Bell,
and obviously that's the Gilmour era. But uh, I was
rewatching the Wall while I was like working on some
long form stuff and uh, you know there's two uh
you know the segment where Hank's obviously Roger Waters. He's
like this little kid and he's at the park and
like nobody nobody's a father. It's much like women and
old men and little kids. And and obviously Water's dad
died in the war. You know that that's the way
it was. It's like there's just like this missing generation.
You know, the UK recovered somewhat, Germany bounced back demographically.
France never recovered. And that's one of the things that
took them down as a great power. But in any event,
as at nineteen seventeen became nineteen eighteen, there basically was
no more manpower. So there was a bunch of like
raw teenage conscripts who were like taking the place in
these uh line companies that had suffered catastrot like one
hundred and fifty percent attrition, you know, So there was
there was no enthusiasm to continue this conflict. You know.
It was like it was a bunch of it was
a bunch of high school age boys like being like
ripped off the farm or like ripped out of the factory,
and they're like mom and Dad's house and like sent
to the slaughter and nobody was coming home, you know.
So the end of the war, when the armistice finally arrived,
there was just like tremendous kind of like outpouring of emotion,
no less from you know Mosey himself, who who'd been there,
you know, and when the armistice was signed. It's interesting
Mosley's oldest son, Nicholas Moseley, he said that he never
saw his dad. He said, he said his dad was
like impassioned and like emotional in the sense that he'd
get very fervent and angry. But he said he never
saw he never saw him get emotional in terms of
you know, losing control of his of his feelings, other
than when he discussed the war. And Nicholas Mosey said,
he said, anytime World War One came up, his father
like he'd speak like with a genuine sense of horror,
you know. And uh, Nicholas said a few times he
saw like tears well up in his eyes just when
people in casually bring up the war, and like Mossey
would like recuse himself like that this wasn't an act,
you know, and so like the enormity of his experience
it kind of caused him like re examined things, you know.
And he he made the statement later in life after
the BUF days after World War two, but before uh
he began uh pushing uh the the revitalized uh europe
a nation concept, Like he said that, uh, you know
the reason why, like providence or fate, I think is
what he assigned as the causal agent had like brought
into politics was you know, because he had he had
he had he had to represent like all the men
who paid the ultimate price, you know, And he had
he had to stand up for Brton sn it could survive,
but he had to see to it that this never
ever happened again, you know. And that probably sounds messianic
to people who don't really understand what sort of experiences
like that are like. And I mean, yeah, there's got
to be like a strong component of ecocentrism if you're
gonna nominate yourself for that kind of ambition. But uh,
you know, it's it's not it's not a matter of
commoning cloud or prestige, you know. And the life of
Moseley didn't it didn't go the way of like the
life of Churchill, the life of Tony Blair, like at
every key juncture, mostly made a decision that put him
at odds with powerful people and with interest that of
becoming inst in you know, the new establishment. You know,
it can't be said that any man would pursue this
course in order to somehow enrich himself or to guarantee
his own posterity by you know, situating himself on the
side that would be favorably documented by court history. But
the uh, the key kind of event too, like post Armistice,
was well, I mean, the first kind of the fall
of Asketh as H as Prime Minister previously, which have
facilitated Lord George's Lord Lloyd George's ascendency. That's what it's.
That's what it split the Liberal Party into the Unionist
faction and and you know, I guess it would be
the moderates. But it was the end of the war
and the issue of Ireland that uh really brought down
the coalition and mostly and again him basically citing not
with the Fenians, but with Ireland, the Irish is a people. Uh.
That was an that that wasn't like the sole approximate cause, obviously,
but it was an essential cause, you know, and some
of the so there's that too, and it I uh,
I think that that speaks for itself. But the they
foind a place here sorry, was his other big thing too,
that put him somewhat at odds with kind of everybody
not just on the front bench of the coalition but
also the moderate labor rights were willing to reach across
the aisle. He'd opposed the public education structure as it
existed for the same reasons that some of these utopian
progressives had, and that being that he basically viewed it
as uh taxing the commons, the kind of put forth
at an education that was determined by the Church of England,
which meant that like nonconformists, you know, dissenters would have
really like no option and they'd be kind of like
mandated into a you know, a UH an educational paradigmod
odds with their culture and devised by you know, their
class betters. But he also said that, you know, the
model has to be that the educational model has to
be that of the Prussian system or you know, the
American system, you know, and again he was looking he
was looking basically towards you know, although obviously people didn't
think in terms of this vocabulary literally or conceptually he was.
He was looking forward and saying like, we're going to
have to become a superpower and change the way that
we do things from the ground up, you know, from
our the way we approach you know, labor and management relations,
you know, to UH this idea that you know, we
can we can tailor our production schema, you know, based
on you know, guarding UH markets for all time against
competitor imports. And you know, well if the if, you know,
if the if the huns UH start to start getting
too greedy and in terms of markets they stake out
in Africa, we can just go to war with them
again like that. You know. His idea was like all
that had to stop. And you know, if you the
only way that the empire can manage those demands is,
you know, you need a population that is basically competent
in technics, you know, and then and there has to
be the focus of you know, the of the educational system.
And this was quite revolutionary at the time, you know.
And again in those days too, state centric models were
like a furlong conclusion in part by necessity, and uh,
public education wasn't this thing that's decades obsolete like today,
like it actually had a purpose. I mean, you've gotta
this was literally a century ago. You know. I can't
emphasize that enough. And nothing bothers me more than when
people should know better try and project contemporary biases on
do test And he said too, like he he grew
upon these the kind of a lot of these, like
a lot of these utopian progressives among them Field Marshall
Edmund iron Stee who commanded, uh, not just troops on
the Western Front, but he'd uh served in northern Russia
with the White Army and Allied elements like he uh,
he was very much an imperialist and very much a
British patriot. Those are very much a socialist and most
even the point again and again like look like being
an imperialist and being like a socialist and and and
and and viewing you know, like the the races that
make up the UK, like you know, the the the
indigenous elements. You know, he's like, you know, viewing and
integral socialism. It's essential to our posterity. Those things aren't
somehow mutually exclusive like Northerian conflict, you know. And that
that UH is a point he came back to again
and again as the b u F got established, is
that the UH, the paradigmic class conflict, it runs far
deeper in the UK than on the continent. And he
acknowledged that. But you know that it it was very
much exploited for cidical reasons by you know, by the UH.
And there then there's perverse incentives to sustain those kinds
of tensions, the forrest political outcomes and to build coalitions
and other things. You know. It's which was absolutely true,
you know, but I I wanted to deep dive into
a lot of this stuff today, because that's that's really
the context of the b U F and it uh
you know, and like I said it much as mostly
was uh like a qualified racialist like he you know,
he he had a very equitable view for a man
of his station and cast. It's complicated the uh well
as he decided. Joseph Chamberlain a lot I was a
Chamberlain was a was he was he was related to
Neville Chamberlain, and he was a liberal Unionist. He was
pretty extreme in his opptition to home rule. But he
also he was among the founders of what was called
the Birmingham Education League. Birmingham was his home constituency, and
he uh he was an advocate of uh like secular,
patriotic and mass education on the Prussian model. And a
lot of a lot of Chamberlain's ideas if you dig
into like what he said on the floor of the
Commons and things, a lot of that is like basically
like Mosey like lifted almost word for word downs that tunitively.
I mean, there's but that's that's the source of a
lot of it. There was you know that I mean
Mosey obviously wasn't any kind of arch unionist with the contrary,
but you know, this idea that Mosey was appropriating some
continental tenancy that had no precedent of the UK, you know,
but trying to create this kind of pastige of a
socialist imperatives and and you know kind of like imperialists,
uh fervor like that. There's nothing in Congress about that.
In terms of the UH. It was the political culture,
which was then like still very much extra the UH
and mostly too like you thought, he was taken in
by this idea that you know, oh well, okay, you
know these reforms, especially the Posting forty eight reforms, which
Moseley's family didn't look too highly upon, the silver lying
that Mosley was that, well, you know this, this this
creates new potentialities, and he thought that like, you know,
there there could be some kind of like there could
be some kind of not like national pelagenesis, but the
kind of like revival of the political culture, you know,
through parliamentary means. And he very quickly became like disabused
of those ideas, you know, like he he gave a
long speech, uh in support of the UH. It was
just made and speech and supportive what was called the
aerial navigation build It was, it was, it was, you know,
it proposed like kind of token funding and stuff for
like you know, civil aviations, and Mostly said like no,
He's like, look, the key to any other putting edge
technology is there is us mastering you know, like uh
a national culture of a civil and military aviation. You know,
and having been a fighter pilot, mostly had obviously a
lot of credibility to speak on this, you know. And
he said the fact that a lot a lot of
these parliamentarians they were rather dismissive of him as just
you know, some kind of young professional soldier who wanted
to build himself up I appeal to you know, uh
a romantic subject matter, or they said no understanding what
he was talking about. You know, he realized, you know,
like my god, we're in real trouble here, you know,
especially uh looking to America and you know, even Germany,
which was in a catastrophic state at the time. You know,
they people uh in both respective states, you know, they
had they had a far greater understanding of kind of
the the velocity and the kind of trajectory of technology
as it was. You know, as it was at that moment,
you know, the British were really lagging, you know, which
UH is one of the things that did the men.
You know, I believe it. It wasn't inevitable, but it
was definitely a necessary cause. One of many this UH
and his UH A second speech he gave out aviation.
He called for UH basically the elimination of UH, the
kind of military bureaucracy as it existed, like the military
and diplomatic bureaucracy, which was more integrated in the UK
than in America except for maybe peak Cold War. You know,
there was a he said, like why why is aviation
civil and military? You know, why is it under parton
control of the Secretary of State from War and Air?
You know, why why is there a parliamentary committee devoted
to it? You know, they has no actual expertise over
the matter. You know. He said, there should be one
single air chief, almost like a joint chief's or a
or or like a the staff system that existed in
in Prussia and then the kaiser Reich, you know, but
obviously not devised for the exclusive purpose of military command.
And Churchill took notice of this and started to kind
of like mimic what Mosey was the kind of facts
and and concepts that he was relaying about aviation. And
then you know Churchill let his cadres and his cronies
like later claims that were totally confabulated. You know about
suppose the supposed German UH build up an air power
and you know there are the ability of a non
existent German bombers to strike at the heart of the
UK such that you know, he was in those claims
presenting actual aviation concepts, some of the stuff that directly
lifted from like Moses early aviation speeches, which is really
interesting but unsurprising and very much in character of Churchill.
But there's around this time too, like nineteen twenty one
twenty two, you know, an immediate aftermath of him completely
falling out with the Liberal Union front bench, he started
speaking of the current the then current epoch is the
you know, the twilight of the Gods. You know, He's like,
we're living in a period where you know, we're like
like the passing of the Great Race. You know, is
is UH is upon us and like where that great
race and we're we're watching ourselves essentially march into oblivion.
Figuratively early and this uh his model of UH aviation
management and development at national scale. It attracted UH, it
attracted a lot of guys to his corporatist model, which
at that point, UH he was he becomes something of
a gadfly in the commons, but you know, he was
he was he was viewed to a guy who had
very serious ideas, at least in terms of you know,
things that were that were within his wheelhouse. And he
attracted a lot of prestige personalities to his UH ideas,
specifically with you know, what he was proposing about about
aviation and uh J some technologies. It was really interesting
and that David Irving makes that point a lot, not
specifically about Mosley, but his book The Rise and Fall
the Lufaff, which is essentially like them it all but name.
It's it's like the memoirs of Erhard Milch. You know.
Erhard Milch was was incredibly important to the way the
Third Right developed and it was into being like a
great uh, a great general of the air arm you know,
in a war hero. He was also uh he was
the first UH like CEO of a commercial airline, you know,
and this uh you know, and Lindberg is a counterpart
of this type in America. You know, this was this
was essential if if the UK had been kind of
less dysfunctional, like even if even if Mosey's ideas hadn't
been a resident in the way that he intended, and
you know, even if even if the fascist tendency that
have given the standard bureau of like never truly get
off the ground, if the UK hadn't totally committed suicide,
like Mosey would have been assimilated into the into the
ruling apparatus, and his talents would have been you know,
directed in constructive ways. That's kind of waste of human capital.
It's something, uh that it's so clear, and it's so
clearly catastrophic in not just in the UK the era,
but it's that's kind of the seminal example in my opinion,
And I mean that that's apparent today like in America,
but there's there's there's less of an obvious pull of
talent to draw upon or willing to dedicate their time
and waivers to the business and government. Then I guess
back then obviously that wasn't that wasn't the case. You know,
there was it was a rememberably deep pool of incredibly
talented men. I think I'm gonna wrap up for now,
and oh yeah, right about an hour anyway. But yeah, well,
I promise I'll get into more like exciting and sexy
stuff with the actual thought that buf and I'll conclude
with part four. We might need to go for like
an hour fifteen or an hour and a half though,
but if that's okay with you, it's fine with me.
Speaker 1: Sure. One question, one question before we go. You you
mentioned the spanglearean term their techniques. Yeah, can you just
tell everybody what technic? How you describe techniques?
Speaker 2: It's all of those words in German that doesn't truly
translate because of the nuanced it. It refers to like
actual technology, like the physical stuff of technology and like machine,
but it also refers to like a conceptual paradigm like
technological thinking. So like when when Spangler says technics, or
when uh, you know, any any kind of German political
philosopher or a sociologist like says technics, like he means
that this entire kind of paradigm, like the actual stuff
of technology, the the modality of thinking that incorporates it
into you know, political life, that the thought process that
historically contextualizes it, you know, the moral implications that derive
from it, the kind of sociological disturbances and benefits that
that that stem from it. It's kind of like it's
it's it's like a Zeitgeist word as well as like
a word that describes like a physical thing like that.
That's what it means.
Speaker 1: Cool, all right, two plugs real quick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm having a report. I have a lot of
exciting things going on. If you visit the Substack, that's
where the bulk of my work product is in terms
of the podcast and like long form writing. It's real
Thomas seven seven seven dot substack dot com. If you'll
include my social media in the description, that'd be great.
My social media alt is at Capital ri e A
L underscore number seven h M A S seven seven
seven And I think yeah, that's all I got.
Speaker 1: All right, and so part four, Thank you so much, Thomas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker 1: Take care,