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Speaker 1: We're Tom A Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style

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Opinion Fest. Hell look at is welcome back to another

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edition of the Pso I am the Tea and you're

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Telo Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm here with the low and

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your Tilo Lorenzo because a little boy, how are you?

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Speaker 2: Lovely?

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Speaker 3: Hugon thought about it. I don't think I could repeat

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that what you just.

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Speaker 1: I have tried to repeat it when we're not in

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front of microphones and I can't do it. And no

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one else knows this, but Lorenzo knows this. I have

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to close my eyes when I do it or I

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get completely You have no many times. You have no

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idea how many times we've had to re record because

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I screwed up the INTROI anyway, Yeah, it's not like

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one time and we did a live podcast on our

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last book tour in New York and I had to

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do that in front of a crowd, and I was

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I actually said, I'm like, I'm really sorry. I need

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to close my eyes while I do this.

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Speaker 2: I can't.

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Speaker 1: I can't face you all while I'm doing it.

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Speaker 4: Funny anyway, Oh, serious, serious, serious topic. That's week and

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it's one of those topics that's like, well, do we

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want to weigh in on this, and then it became

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more like, well, if we don't weigh in on this,

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it becomes weird. Obviously, if you clicked on this and

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you're listening to this, you already know that the topic

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is Jimmy Kimmel's suspension by ABC after the FCC came

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down on him for making comments about right wing activist

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Charlie Kirk's assassination that the FCC found questionable. So let's

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start with this. This is not a podcast about Trump.

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We're not talking about Trump. This is damn sure not

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a podcast about Charlie Kirk. We're not talking about that

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guy at all. I have no interest in making them

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part of my work coverage. I just know not doing it,

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not doing it, And I would ask that anybody who

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comes to our site to talk about this podcast please

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remember that we are not talking about that. Part of

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the reason, well part of the reason we're not talking

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about that is it's not our remit it's you know,

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we're we're celebrity style bloggers, we're pop culture bloggers. And

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I've had this argument with many readers and social media

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people over the years it's not what people come for

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us for. And if we start making ourselves part of

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the hashtag resistance or whatever, our business well, and this

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is not a hobby for us, it's our business. We've

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got to keep it afloat.

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Speaker 3: I've mentioned this before. We have very strong openions about

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a lot of things, you know, we you know, we

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read every day what's what's out there. We're we're aware

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of what's what's out there, and we're very politically in

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a way, but we just don't think that that's the

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place our site is the platform for that. We just

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don't don't want to do it. And one of the

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reasons why we don't want to do it is because

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we get attacked and people start turning against us, right

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and our business and what we do, which has nothing

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to do.

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Speaker 1: With it exactly.

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Speaker 2: So so we don't see the point.

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Speaker 3: I used to tweet a lot, I used to do

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a lot of stuff, but then I would wake up

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the next day and there was just like stuff that

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I had to work on, you know, Like it's so

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much work to defend yourself, to defend yourself, to explain yourself,

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to tell people that that's not what you said. It's

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pretty much it when it comes to social media is

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to explain that you didn't say that. So it's just exhausting.

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I don't feel like doing that anymore. That's why I

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haven't said anything about anything, although many many times I've

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wanted to, but you know, it's just not worth it.

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Speaker 1: I also think I just want to make the point

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here that you know, we we we don't comment on politics,

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not out of it's not a fear of that.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 1: No, people tend to read out we have a business

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to protect, and they think it's some sort of fear thing.

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But I got to ask, is your local pizza parlor

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hanging anti Trump signs out in their window? They're not.

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They've got a business to run. We all do. You're

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not putting anti Trump stuff on your desk at work

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because you got to go to work every day.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: It's a very delicate situation for a lot of people,

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and that's why, without getting to the YouTube, it's why

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so many celebrities are saying things they're saying because they

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you know, like any fan base you have, you have

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people with various opinions and you know, and ideas of

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how things should be done. So people are just I

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don't know. Some people are being careful, some people feel

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like that the need to be a little more I

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don't know, a polite or diplomatic about it. I mean,

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it's just a mess out there, and I don't feel

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like being part of it, to be honest.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, and again it's not a fear thing or

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anything like that for myself at least. I think one

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of the main problems with our modern politics is that

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too many people who don't know what they're talking about

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have a literal microph phone. And I'm saying this as

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I talk into my microphone. I am not an expert

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on policy or politics or any of that. I'm very

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well read, but you shouldn't be coming to me for stuff.

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You should be coming to experts for that sort of stuff.

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Which is why we live in an age where literally

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everybody can just weigh in on everything, and subsequently, people

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like us who have a platform are sometimes expected to

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weigh in on everything, and we refuse to do so.

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Having said that, when Kimmel's suspension came down, I don't

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even know did we talk about Colbert on the podcast.

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I think we might have talked about it briefly, but

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when the Kimmel suspension came down and this was just

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yesterday where the you know, it was Wednesday night. Actually,

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Lorenzo and I had to talk like, well are we

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what are we doing here? Like are we talking about this?

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Because again, these things all wind up affecting us in

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weird ways that maybe the casual reader or listener doesn't understand.

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But I would say fifteen percent of our celebrity style coverage.

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Twenty percent maybe is late night talk shows.

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Speaker 2: We do a lot of yeah shows, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of times those pictures are sent to

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us by the studios because they're promoting their own talk shows,

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which means we get those pictures for free, which is

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unusual because all the other red carpet pictures on our

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site tend to be licensed. We have to pay a

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lot of money for those. So from a business perspective,

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it was very smart of us to start covering these

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things because we didn't always have to pay for the pictures.

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It was a lot less. Grandio sent a red carpet

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and we were talking about people who at least some

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of our viewers saw them on TV the night before

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wearing that outfit, so it's a place for them to

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come it's actually one of my favorite things. In some ways,

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it's more interesting to talk about talk show outfits than

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it is about red carpet outfits, because a red carpet outfit,

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you're just standing there and posing, like that's really all

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you're doing. Millions of people are going to see those pictures,

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but only a handful of people are going to watch

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the actual videos where you were interviewed on that red carpet.

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But you know, millions of people watch a talk show,

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and not only that, but you have to talk. You're

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not standing there imposing, so you're creating an entire persona

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while you're trying to sell a product, And to me,

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that's one of the more interesting ways celebrities use fashion.

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One of the things we noted in the last year

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was that talk show ensembles have become more and more

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grandiose in the last year or so. It's not a

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it's not a style turn that I'm actually in love with,

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because I think the good thing about talk shows is

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it allows stars not to be grandios. Anyway, long story,

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love rambling here, but my point is the reason we're

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weighing in on this is because this stuff actually does

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affect us and we wanted to talk about why and

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how and not really get into the politics of it,

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although that's largely unavoidable. Yeah, let me stayed up front.

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This is a serious series, a serious free speech issue,

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and we should all be mobilized for whether you like

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Jimmy Kimmel or not. We should not be in a

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situation where people lose their jobs because they have said

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something that the people in power don't like.

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Speaker 3: Right, they should be criticized if they say something that

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it's way out of line. But exactly, but that doesn't

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mean that they Yes, but we also can't have a

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so called free speech that it's cited.

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Speaker 2: One way exactly. We can't.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we can't like, you know, having people criticize

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people for saying something when they when they go out

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there and say something and I'm not criticized for what

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they said. It's not there, right, Uh, it's not right.

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It's a serious matter actually, So it's complicated. But you know,

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it's not we're not saying that we agree with anything.

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It's not we're not saying that we agree with with

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Jimmy Kimmel said. It's just that people should have the

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right to see certain things. I mean Obviously there is

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a limit to you know, what you can do and

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not be criticized for it, But you still have the

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right to say whatever you want. Yeah, I mean, listen,

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I'm as a queer person, I've read and heard so

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many things in my life, so many comments, so many

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things said about me being queer or queer people in general.

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That you know, that hurts me, That makes me very sad.

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But at the same time, I can't go after every

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person that says something against me.

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Speaker 1: Now, of course, even if it's a.

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Speaker 3: Horrible thing, I can criticize it, but I can't tell

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these people to shut up.

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Speaker 1: No, the lady upstairs is running her vacuum, so I'm

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gonna looks like a short break and then we'll come

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back and unpick this a little further. We're back. She

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stopped vauuming upstairs, so one time we complained about her,

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and someone came to our site and was so offended

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because they thought we were dissing our maid. They thought

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when we talked about the woman vacuuming upstairs that they

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we were talking about the massive house that we live

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in and the hired help. But I was like, boy,

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you people, you really have an image of.

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Speaker 3: Us, the lady on the back in our second floor.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the east wing was being vacuumed and she was

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taking too long and we were complaining about her. Anyway

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back to this, Okay, so you know, it is unavoidable

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having this conversation and not mentioning Trump or politics at all.

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So let me say that if you read Project twenty

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twenty five at all, the document that was put out

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during the campaign that explained in in tremendous detail what

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they were planning to do if they got elected, a

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lot of what they are doing is about exploiting loopholes

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in systems that already exist, or exploiting weaknesses. It was

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all I mean, this was why Project twenty twenty five

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was so alarming, is because it was a very well

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mapped out plan about exploiting all of these weaknesses in

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our institutions and systems. And I'll just say this about

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what's been going on for the last eight nine months

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in this country. So not not dismissing the real harm

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and pain that they have caused real people in large

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to a large extent. So much of what the administration

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is doing this year is about scaring people. It is

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about making sure that dissent is as hard as possible to.

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Speaker 2: Do, so that's one way to silence people.

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Speaker 1: Right so they're doing it in a way that is

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largely legal. And I mean, I don't know what sort

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of court you know, people are gonna file charge, you know,

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suits against them or anything, you know, court challenges, but

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right now, a lot of what they're doing, even the

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immigration stuff, a lot of the people it's it's because

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of loopholes. It's because of loopholes that were never ever

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utilized in the past, and they're they're just using them

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to round up people. My point is this, everybody knows

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that late night talk shows are dying. So one of

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the one of the more insidious things about Colbert and

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Kimmel essentially being fired is that they the people who

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instituted these events, they don't think there's enough support for

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these people too. In other words, they think that people

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at Colbert and Kimmel are weakened because late night's not

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making a lot of money. And anybody who looks at

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television trends could tell you it's been a conversation for

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years now. It's what Hacks has been about. The TV

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show Hacks has been about. This is that it is

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a dying form and it's not going to last another

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ten years. Kimmel has said this. So what they what

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the administration is doing is is, you know, going after

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things that they don't like, that they think are weak

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enough that they can get them removed from sight. And

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that is what's happening here. I'm sorry, did you No?

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Speaker 2: No, that's the thing.

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Speaker 3: And the first target is the kind of show that

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people have an opinion, that they're expressing their opinions to

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millions of people watching.

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Speaker 2: So that's not good.

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Speaker 3: That's not good, and and that's why they need to

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be They feel like they need to be silent. I'm

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sure there are, there will be, or there are still

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already going on forms of silence people in a way

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that we won't even notice, like shows and move I'm

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sure yeah, and other ways where you know, it's not

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so clear, like talk shows, because talk shows you have

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someone up up there talking about something or making fun

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of something or mocking somebody, and it's just not acceptable.

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Speaker 1: And this is what they're doing openly. This is the

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kind of stuff that they are openly censoring. Imagine all

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the million little ways people far less powerful than Kimmel

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and Colbert are being silenced. And I say this again

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as a publisher of independent media. It's scary out there.

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I don't think Lorenzo and I are on anybody's radar

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in terms of, you know, getting attacked by the administration

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or whatever like that, although it's you know, like I said,

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we're not talking about Charlie Kirk because I'm not getting

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into that. But I guess my point is that we,

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as members of independent media and as deep longtime observers

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and critics of legacy media, we're in a very scary time.

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And I'm not I mean, if people are listening to

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this podcast and looking for a way forward or a

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mode of action to take, I don't even know what

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to tell you. I don't even know what to tell you.

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I'm just unpacking all of this. There is a possible Well,

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first off, let me tell you this that Disney is

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receiving tremendous blowback. Yeah, and there has been some rumbling

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in trade magazines like The Hollywood Reporter and Variety that

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they're all scrambling. The board is scrambling, executives are scrambling.

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They're trying to figure out how to put this fire

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out right.

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Speaker 3: Because one of the things you have to remember is

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that when you make a decision like that, you not

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appealing one hundred percent of the people who follow you

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or support you by having, you know, subscribing to Year's

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channel whatever. So there is going to be a section,

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a part of your subscription base that will not like

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what you did, right, and that's going to affect you.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if people are going to suddenly boycott Disney.

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I kind of find that a difficult proposite. I'm not

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hanging my hopes on it. Do you I mean, do

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you think all those Disney adults are going to stop

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going to Disney parks? Do you think Disney World is

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going to see I mean, maybe some Disney Plus subscriptions

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will be uh, you know, I'm hoping Actually I'm considering

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getting rid of ours because I don't really watch anything

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on there anymore. I mean, we have subscriptions to every

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streamer because of our work we just do.

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Speaker 3: Right now, listen. I find it very hard and it's

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hardening in a way to uh, for people to support

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what is not necessarily affecting them.

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Speaker 2: That's one thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one thing I see out there, and I

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see that in my family. I see that everywhere that

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that you know, sometimes I see people doing things that

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I'm like, but you know, they're against queer people, right right,

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but they do it anyway, And what are you going

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to do when these people are so close to you?

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So I it's it's disappointing in a way, and I

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see that people will continue doing the things they do

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because it sometimes it's hard, like when we were, you know,

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the Target issue going to Target and not shopping at

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Target anymore and things like.

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Speaker 1: That, you must be using Prime. You have to you know,

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get to your subscription to the Washington Post and the

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New York Times, and you're not supposed to be on Twitter,

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and you're not supposed to be on Facebook, and you're

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not supposed to be on Instagram. And can I just

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say I need almost all of that to do the

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business that I did.

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Speaker 3: It is it is very, very difficult. So yeah, people, yes, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not here to judge people who are not

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making the choices that I would make. But canceling a

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Disney Plus subscription and letting people know why is a

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good way of is actually one of the very few

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modes of action available to us as consumers.

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Speaker 3: The bottom line is that these people only understand money.

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That's the only thing to understand. These people have no

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affiliation to anything as long as they make money. So

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if you hit money, then yeah, you might see a change,

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You might see some sort of like response.

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Speaker 1: I think Lorenzo is a little more pessimistic about all

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this than I am. I could be wrong. We haven't

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talked this out, but I do think we are. I

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do think change is possible. I do think. Let me

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put it this way, Colbert and Kimmel, they're probably not

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going anywhere. I mean, they may not be on network

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television anymore. But I really don't think those guys are

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going to hurt for work. And I don't think and

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I don't think they do either. But I do want

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to address something. Colbert said something when his show was

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canceled about how he has a He has a staff

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of two hundred people, so going after him meant that

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those two hundred people were losing their jobs, which is awful,

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of course, But this goes back to an earlier point

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that I was trying to make, which is that the

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model for late night talk shows and network television generally

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just doesn't work anymore. And when he said he had

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a two hundred person stayt. I don't begrudge any of

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those people their jobs, but I'm like, we don't live

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in an age where you need two hundred people to

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put on a talk show. People are putting on talk

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show podcasts and you know, talk shows on YouTube. Now, granted,

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it wouldn't be the same thing. You probably wouldn't have

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a huge studio audience, You probably wouldn't have a string

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of assistance or anything like that. But Colbert and Kimmel

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and anybody with the talent to do to be a

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talk show host, they can continue what they're doing without

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a two hundred person staff and a network seat. They could.

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I would be a little shocked if like Netflix or

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somebody else didn't start talking to these guys because they've

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been fooling around with having a talk show with what's

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his name now, Delaney, Not Delaney, the guy that's married

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to libyam On that everybody got mad at him. I'm

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having a form.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, John Mulaney, I knew I had it right, I

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said Delaney, but it was Melanie John Mlaney. He had

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a podcast, he had a he has a show on Netflix.

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It was a limited series sort of talk show experiment,

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and it was a really cute idea. The one thing

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I didn't quite understand about what he was doing was

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that it it still looked like a network talk show,

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and I was like, well, if you're going to do this,

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you really kind of you got to get rid of

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the traffics. And that usually means, I mean, it should

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mean maybe rethinking things like do we need a big set,

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do we need a big skyline in the background, do

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we need a band? Do you need any of those

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things to have a talk show? And you really don't, right.

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Speaker 3: The thing is that yes, people working for them, they're

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all going to have to look for another job.

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Speaker 2: And that sucks.

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Speaker 3: It does, It does sucks, and it's not easy. But

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the those two they have more money and they can do.

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You know, they have more money than God, So it's

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not about money. If they really want to make a difference,

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then then create a podcast, go to Netflix, go to

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something smaller, right, and continue doing what you do. If

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that's what you want to do, They're not going to

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be They're not going to be suffering those two.

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Speaker 1: No, I mean to look at Tucker Carlson got fired

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from Fox News and immediately launched design exactly. I don't

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know if he's making the same kind of money or

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anything like that, but I don't think he's hurting and

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I don't think he really lost much of an audience.

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I'm not being flipping about this, but I do think

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Colbert and Kimmel. Look, a lot of people have been

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losing their jobs lately. Seven Wall just got laid off

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on the rolling for Rolling Stone. They don't have a

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TV critic anymore. Karen Attia the black that she was

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the last black opinion columnist at the Washington Post. They

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fired her for tweeting about Charlie Kirk. These people are

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gonna have a much harder time than Jimmy Kimmel and

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and and uh Colbert and Colbert. I was gonna Sayjimmy Fallon,

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don't get me started on.

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Speaker 3: Oh God, no, that one will always have a job.

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Speaker 1: Well, you should have seen this monologue last night. It

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was like the most you know, milk toast kind of

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response to this sort of thing. Don't even get Yeah, No,

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I can't stand that guy anyway, and I'll be perfectly blunted.

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I think Jimmy Kimmel is kind of an asshole. I never

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really thought he was, you know, and I actually think

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Colbert was kind of judgmental and narrowminded in a lot

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of ways. Got to a point they don't deserve that now.

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Speaker 3: They got to a point that they they they had

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too much power, too much money and control of things.

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I'm not defending anything. I'm just saying that you get

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to a point that you just don't see things the

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way you should be seeing things anymore. And I'm not,

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you know, justify anything. I'm just saying that maybe it's

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time to, you know, rethink things. You know, it's not

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about money anymore, it's about your cause or what you

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believe in. And then create a podcast, create a small

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show somewhere, you know, where you can say what you want.

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Speaker 1: That is, yeah, and I totally agree with all that.

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And I think we're in such a weird moment in

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AH in media that and I do think that the

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administration is doing a lot to sort of take charge

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of this moment and bend it to their will. I

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thought talk shows were growing to end. Kimmel probably wasn't

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going to renew his contract, and Colbert, I don't know,

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I don't say this with absolute assurance, but every indication

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about the state of television is that these shows as

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they currently exist, and they are expensive, All of these

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guys have huge salaries as they currently exist, they probably

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will not be on the air in ten years. And

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I want to get back to why that is the case. Apparently,

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the viewership on these shows is all still very very good.

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And not only that, every day the next day, clips

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from their shows tend to go viral online and are

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seen by tens of millions on YouTube. I mean, yeah,

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we embedded them on that they are well, not just

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that they go viral on social media. These guys, all

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of them, and you know they're all white guys. Of course,

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they have a tremendous influence on the culture. Every time

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they open their mouths, everybody talks about it the next day.

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And this is why Trump hates them.

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Speaker 2: So that's why people hate them.

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Speaker 1: And every time someone goes on their show, they you know,

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at least one interview clip will go viral. And this

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is what I wanted to get to and because this

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is where we come in. For seventy years, going back

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to before Johnny Carson, major entertainment companies and the studios

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and the you know, the music industry and all of that.

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They relied on late night talk shows to give a

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place for their stars to promote their products.

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Speaker 3: Right, I mean, that's why you see people going on

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these shows. I mean because they have a TV show,

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they have a movie, they have something. That's why they go.

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The same thing with magazines. People on the cover of

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a magazine they're promoting something. It's very funny because a

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long time ago, before the site, I had no idea.

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Speaker 2: That's why I'm right.

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Speaker 3: I would see someone on a cover of magazine or

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on a TV show and I was like, Oh, they're

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just there. Now I understand why it's funny because it

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gets to a point now that every now and then

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I don't know. And I turned to Tom and I

469
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was like, what are they promoting?

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Speaker 2: Did they have a new movie? Right?

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Speaker 1: And I actually, I'm really glad you brought up magazines

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because that's a very good point. We don't have magazine

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racks anymore. There are no newsstands where there are fifty magazines,

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and the magazine industry, just like all these other media industries,

475
00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:06,480
have collapsed over the last decade or two. And what

476
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,319
happened was a lot of magazines went under of course

477
00:25:10,319 --> 00:25:11,960
we don't have them anymore, but a lot of the

478
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000
really big ones are now digital, and they found a

479
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,599
way to continue putting celebrities on covers and interviewing them

480
00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:20,319
and making money off that. And the reason I'm saying

481
00:25:20,319 --> 00:25:23,880
that is because I don't think I really firmly believe

482
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,440
we're not seeing the end of the talk show, the

483
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,759
celebrity talk show. We're what we're going to see is

484
00:25:28,799 --> 00:25:33,599
a forced change upon it. Because last I heard, Kimmel

485
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,119
was sitting down with Disney to talk this out with them,

486
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:44,839
pardon me, and the FCC wants an apology from him.

487
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,960
I don't think it's likely he's going to do that,

488
00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:49,839
but the fact that Disney is sitting down with him

489
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,359
means that they realize that they don't want to cut

490
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,880
this guy loose. They don't want to end this relationship,

491
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,119
so they are all scrambling trying to figure something out.

492
00:25:57,319 --> 00:25:59,279
I don't know where this is going to go, And

493
00:25:59,319 --> 00:26:02,319
we record podcasts on topical things, and by the time

494
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,839
we wrap up the podcast, go online and find out

495
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,960
it was resolved. So I don't know. Maybe this has

496
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:10,079
been resolved in the twenty minutes since we were twenty

497
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:16,960
five minutes since we started recording. But I feel that

498
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,720
there's too much money on the line. There's too much

499
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:26,920
The entire entertainment industry rests upon this sort of scenario,

500
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,200
this situation, so the you know, it may be hard

501
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,680
for these shows to make money, but they actually can't

502
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,599
go away. And I think I should take a quick break.

503
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,279
We should take a quick break and come in and

504
00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:44,319
come back and unpack that part of it. We're back

505
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,039
and we're unpacking the whole Kimmel affair, going back to

506
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,599
you know what we said before the break. The Trump

507
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,359
administration and the FCC are taking advantage of the fact

508
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,359
that media is in so much flux right now, and

509
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:02,319
something like television talk shows, which are usually places where

510
00:27:02,319 --> 00:27:07,440
you can go to find people satirizing or commenting or

511
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,839
making jokes about the people in power. It always has

512
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:11,920
been that, that has always been one of the formats

513
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,039
of one of the reasons people go to listen to

514
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:17,279
Johnny Carson or Jay Lennon where anybody else is to

515
00:27:17,319 --> 00:27:19,839
hear them unpack the events of the day and to

516
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,079
make fun of powerful people.

517
00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:21,519
Speaker 2: Right.

518
00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:29,279
Speaker 1: And it is a standard in fascistic societies that some

519
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,480
of the first people to get put in jail are

520
00:27:31,519 --> 00:27:34,559
the comedians, Because if there's one thing a dictator does

521
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,759
not like is they do not like being made fun

522
00:27:36,759 --> 00:27:40,519
of and they will not allow it. So Trump, and

523
00:27:40,599 --> 00:27:45,160
like a lot of autocrats, understands that comedy is dangerous

524
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,960
to an autocracy, and he's attacking it. It's the same

525
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,279
reason you went after Saturday Night Live, and he will

526
00:27:53,319 --> 00:27:56,000
go after Saturday Night Live. They're also going after the view.

527
00:27:56,079 --> 00:27:58,440
They talked about that this week, and of course they're

528
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,119
going to try and get the other mail, you know,

529
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,319
the other late night talk show hosts off the air.

530
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:10,200
I think this has been I think this probably will

531
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,039
be the rubicon crossing for the larger portion of the

532
00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:15,440
American public. I mean, the big reason why the Trump

533
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,640
administration has been able to get away with everything they've

534
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,680
been doing for the last nine months is because, unfortunately,

535
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,759
the vast majority of adults in this country do not

536
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:25,960
pay much attention to politics, and they actually don't know

537
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,039
what he's doing. People don't know about people getting sent

538
00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:33,039
off to prisons, you know, in El Salvador, or they

539
00:28:33,039 --> 00:28:35,039
don't know any of that stuff. What they do know

540
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,599
is Jimmy Kimmel lost his job and Trump fired him

541
00:28:38,519 --> 00:28:41,400
and people like Jimmy Kimmel and people like Seth Colbert.

542
00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:44,279
And it's interesting to note that when the Colbert thing happened,

543
00:28:44,279 --> 00:28:46,559
there was a huge cry about it, but not a

544
00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:50,200
lot of mobilization. And maybe because he has another year

545
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,920
to go before he hasn't he wasn't yanked off the air,

546
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,680
but for whatever reason, I feel like Kimmel is that's

547
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,440
the one guy you shouldn't have gone after, right, Just.

548
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 3: To correct you, Stephen Colbert, not South Corbert.

549
00:29:03,119 --> 00:29:05,839
Speaker 1: Oh, I was makeeting a mixed with Seth Meyers. Sorry,

550
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,160
thank you, thank you, Lorenza.

551
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I know someone will correct you.

552
00:29:09,319 --> 00:29:16,119
Speaker 1: So so okay, there's so much swirling around that I'm

553
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:22,640
trying to get across here. Paramount owns CBS, which owns

554
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,839
The Colbert Show, and Disney owns ABC, which owns the

555
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,799
uh uh Jimmy Kettle Show. Oh my god, I should

556
00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:33,359
have had a cup of coffee before this podcast and

557
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,680
uh this but this is part of the problem with

558
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,799
our country right now, in our media right now, is

559
00:29:38,799 --> 00:29:41,440
it's all owned by like four people and they're all billionaires,

560
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,160
and they get to decide on a whim whether or

561
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,200
not we get to see things, and that's that's fucking problematic.

562
00:29:46,279 --> 00:29:50,920
But that's at a certain point, Paramount's going to wonder, well,

563
00:29:51,079 --> 00:29:53,359
who do where are we sending people to promote the

564
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,720
stuff on our network because we got rid of our

565
00:29:55,759 --> 00:30:00,960
talk show, right And Disney's going to wonder the same thing. Well,

566
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,880
I'm sure they're wondering it right now. A lot of

567
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,279
these decisions were not made for business reasons. They were

568
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:08,599
made for personal you know, out of peak and out

569
00:30:08,599 --> 00:30:11,319
of you know, they wanted to punish the wrong people

570
00:30:11,319 --> 00:30:15,880
who were saying the wrong things. So as these things unfold,

571
00:30:16,119 --> 00:30:18,440
I think the people in charge of these networks are

572
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,799
realizing are slowly realizing this is not sustainable. We can't

573
00:30:21,839 --> 00:30:24,119
just yank people off the air because the president doesn't

574
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:29,599
like them. The public won't stand for that. So I

575
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,680
also think celebrities won't stand for it. They need to

576
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,079
go to places to promote their work. You start yanking

577
00:30:35,079 --> 00:30:37,319
this stuff off the air, And let me tell you,

578
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,119
celebrities loathe red carpets. Ninety nine percent of them loathing.

579
00:30:42,319 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 2: They don't like it.

580
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: But if they can sit down and chat with Jimmy

581
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,079
Fallon or Jimmy Kimmel and talk about their latest project.

582
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,200
They will do that in a heartbeat. And you yanked

583
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,359
this away and all they've got left is maybe morning

584
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,759
talk shows and red carpets, and no, they're not going

585
00:30:57,839 --> 00:30:58,680
to go for that at all.

586
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 3: No, I totally agree they they they feel a lot

587
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,720
more comfortable when they're just talking about it because you're

588
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,359
focused on what they're saying, not necessarily just posing in

589
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,480
pictures and all that. So yeah, if that all goes away,

590
00:31:13,079 --> 00:31:15,839
it it can cause a lot of problem.

591
00:31:16,359 --> 00:31:17,039
Speaker 2: Yeah.

592
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 3: I do feel also that we're we're pro because of

593
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,440
especially because of social media, we are approaching criticives in

594
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,400
a way that is just not sustainable. I mean, we

595
00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:30,799
have to allow people to have a criticism, some sort

596
00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:33,680
of criticism of anything of any kind, even if we

597
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:35,960
don't agree with it, even if it's way out there.

598
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,279
We have to let people criticize things. We can, we

599
00:31:40,319 --> 00:31:45,359
can agree or disagree with whatever they said, but we

600
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:46,400
have to let people.

601
00:31:46,599 --> 00:31:47,759
Speaker 2: I feel like, uh.

602
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 3: Whatever you say today, and so everywhere social media, everywhere,

603
00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:55,119
it's people come down on you in a way that

604
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,519
is just not normal anymore. Believe me, I know it's

605
00:31:58,599 --> 00:32:03,119
just not normal. I mean it's this irrational behavior that

606
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,680
we have now with social media, I mean you're allowed

607
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,640
to criticize somebody or reply and say, you know, I

608
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,480
don't agree with you. But we lost, i mean completely,

609
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,759
any mechanism that we had, any sort of like you know,

610
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:23,279
guide that we had to criticize people or to don't

611
00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:26,720
agree with anybody. I mean we just insult everyone. We

612
00:32:26,839 --> 00:32:30,920
just say the most horrific things online because you're not

613
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,000
in the presence of the person. You know, you're not

614
00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:34,799
in front of the person, right, so you feel like

615
00:32:34,839 --> 00:32:35,920
you can see whatever you want.

616
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 2: And that has added.

617
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 3: A lot, I think, to the problem that we have

618
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:45,039
because it's just people just don't accept anyone having a

619
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:49,079
different opinion anymore. Or when they I wouldn't even say

620
00:32:49,119 --> 00:32:52,839
don't accept, but they react violently to anyone who has

621
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:53,680
a different opinion.

622
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,839
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think we knew this was going to be

623
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,799
a short one before we got started. We were like,

624
00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:02,559
are we going to talk about any other TV shows?

625
00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:04,119
And I was like, let's just keep it focused on

626
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,480
this because it's all anyone is going to I'm just

627
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,119
looking at this as a site publisher who relies on

628
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,160
this sort of stuff, you know, for my content, and

629
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,599
also as an observer of media. Who understands some of

630
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,880
the forces that are happening underneath all of this. So

631
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,680
to wrap it all up, I can't. I don't know

632
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,599
what the mode of action is for the consumer. I

633
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:32,279
do think canceling your Disney Plus subscription is they notice

634
00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:35,039
that stuff, And when you canceled, I'm pretty sure there's

635
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:37,359
a form that you can fill out and explain why

636
00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:40,559
you're doing it. That's the number one thing we have

637
00:33:41,039 --> 00:33:45,799
as a tool, and then speaking out against it as well. Yes,

638
00:33:46,839 --> 00:33:50,039
free speech is under attack in this country in a

639
00:33:50,079 --> 00:33:52,519
way it probably hasn't ever been, because I don't even

640
00:33:52,519 --> 00:33:57,799
think mc McCarthyism was as bad as this, And we

641
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,599
all need to be vigilant. But I also so feel

642
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:05,599
that we also need to be aware that weaknesses and

643
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,800
institutions are being exploited and those institutions are not going

644
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,519
to come back the same even if we fight for them. So, yes,

645
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:17,360
Colbert and Kimmel are not going anywhere yet. But the

646
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:21,360
late night talk show situation as it currently exists is

647
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,760
not sustainable. We cannot be paying tens of millions of

648
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:30,199
dollars to guys every single year, and the people who

649
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,199
are in charge of this all I mean I'm rambling.

650
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,760
This all goes down to a lot of things. But

651
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,880
one thing that's the problem here is that network television

652
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,239
still has not figured out how to make money in

653
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,960
a streaming era, which is why talk shows have huge

654
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,239
audiences but aren't making any money. A lot of these

655
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,000
clips and everything that go viral get watched the next day,

656
00:34:51,079 --> 00:34:53,559
and nobody's making money off of that. And that's something

657
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,960
you know, ABC, Disney, Paramount, they all got to figure

658
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:01,039
that shit out. Talk shows on aren't going anywhere, and

659
00:35:01,079 --> 00:35:04,079
they're not going to become state imposed talk shows because

660
00:35:04,119 --> 00:35:06,320
no one's going to watch that ship. If they go

661
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,119
after the view that'll be a huge, huge, huge mistake.

662
00:35:10,159 --> 00:35:12,199
Don't know how many wine moms are going to come

663
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,280
out against that. And I actually think they realized that

664
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,639
the Kimel thing might have been a step to.

665
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,159
Speaker 3: Yeah, well see well that's the thing with with situations

666
00:35:21,199 --> 00:35:22,920
like that is that they try something and see if

667
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,280
it works and how far they can get.

668
00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 2: Always they do.

669
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,320
Speaker 3: That's that's true of any time or if any situation

670
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,880
when it comes to politics, is that you know, you

671
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:34,480
you open a little door, and if you were able

672
00:35:34,519 --> 00:35:36,840
to go through that door, then you try another door,

673
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,440
and then you keep trying things until you know you

674
00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:43,519
stop somewhere. I do feel like, uh when I say that,

675
00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:46,760
we're very aware of what's out there, they're very politically.

676
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 2: We do what we can. I mean it.

677
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,639
Speaker 3: It's just that we we try to divide but separate

678
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:56,000
our work, our site, with our political views and social

679
00:35:56,079 --> 00:35:59,440
views and everything that we do and so on. But I,

680
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,440
you know, I encourage everyone to do whatever you feel

681
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:02,719
like you.

682
00:36:02,679 --> 00:36:03,039
Speaker 2: Need to do.

683
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,599
Speaker 3: You know, I think that's safe. I think that's it's right,

684
00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:09,239
that's that's that's how it needs to be done. Because

685
00:36:11,199 --> 00:36:13,400
if you don't voice your opinion, if you don't voice

686
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,159
how you feel, then then you just let people, you know,

687
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:17,679
do whatever they feel like doing.

688
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, we do have to stand up. We do have

689
00:36:20,519 --> 00:36:23,960
to make stand up, which is why I I think, yeah,

690
00:36:24,079 --> 00:36:26,920
going today to cancel your Disney Plus subscription would probably

691
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,360
be a good idea. But I'm again not telling you

692
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,039
what to do. Like I guarantee six months down the road,

693
00:36:34,039 --> 00:36:37,320
we're going to cover some Disney red carpet and someone's

694
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,119
gonna ask us, why are you covering these? You know, again,

695
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,320
I gotta make my money. I gotta do what I

696
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,840
gotta do. I cannot let someone like Trump tell me

697
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,159
that I can't cover Disney anymore. That's not it. I

698
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,800
can And I urge you to get your to cancel

699
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,039
your subscriptions, all right, and I probably yeah, I mean,

700
00:36:56,159 --> 00:36:58,239
we should all think about are we going to continue

701
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,320
to support television shows on para mount plous television shows

702
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,880
on Disney? Are we going to these movies? That's sort

703
00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:07,840
we have to make decisions. However, all of the people

704
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,880
who are in charge of all of the retail and

705
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,320
all of the entertainment in this country are billionaires and

706
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,880
they're all in the tank for Trump. So it can't

707
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:17,320
just boycott all of it.

708
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,960
Speaker 3: It's it's a much bigger problem. I mean, we're down

709
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,599
to two people, you know owing everything.

710
00:37:22,679 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: Yeah that works.

711
00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:25,599
Speaker 2: So yeah.

712
00:37:25,639 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 3: So if you if you decide that you're no longer

713
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,360
going to watch something, then you know you have knocked

714
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:32,760
down like twenty of them.

715
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, fucking vote in the mid terms for Jesus Christ's sake.

716
00:37:35,639 --> 00:37:37,559
I don't care if you're pissed at that. I am too.

717
00:37:37,639 --> 00:37:38,679
I'm pissed at the death.

718
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:43,639
Speaker 3: Listen that that's but that's the only thing that can

719
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:45,599
do something for real.

720
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 2: For sure.

721
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,119
Speaker 1: We said we weren't going to get political and vote.

722
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,559
Speaker 3: No, I mean, I'm saying vote, that's all I'm saying.

723
00:37:51,119 --> 00:37:51,519
Speaker 2: Anyway.

724
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,599
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, it's it's a mess. It's a mess. It's

725
00:37:55,679 --> 00:37:59,719
very stressful. I'm I'm upset, I'm disappointed. I'm stressed every day.

726
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,000
I'm not gonna lie, but I'm trying to. And I

727
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:06,679
urge everyone to focus to find some joy in your

728
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:11,679
life and action at the same time, you know, do

729
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:12,239
what you can.

730
00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:13,039
Speaker 2: That's all.

731
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: Okay, I think that's it a little bit of a

732
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,760
serious topic, but we hope we've given you a little

733
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,639
bit of optimism, although I don't even know if that's

734
00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:27,039
my job, but we'd love to hear from you. So

735
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:31,599
anything you have, any thoughts you have on this, please

736
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:36,800
come to our site and let us know. And that's it.

737
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,880
We'll be back next week with whatever crosses our eyes

738
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,159
across our desks. Until then, take care of yourself, love

739
00:38:41,199 --> 00:38:41,599
you mean it.

740
00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: Bye bye bye,