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Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrilling Threads. We're the show that gives you

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the absolute fastest shortcut to being truly well informed by

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diving deep into the most compelling and sometimes the most

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complex source material out there.

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Speaker 2: And today we are strapping in for what might just

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be the ultimate astronomical detective story, I think.

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Speaker 1: So imagine this if you can. There's an object. It's

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about the size of Manhattan, and it is just hurtling

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through our solar system right now.

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Speaker 2: When you say hurdling, you really mean it. It's completely

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unbound by our son's gravity, moving in a staggering velocity

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of around one hundred and fifty thousand miles per hour.

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Speaker 1: But the speed, as incredible as it is, isn't even

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the most intriguing part. The source material you shared it

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details this really peculiar behavior. This massive interstellar visitor is pulsing, pulsing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's blinking kind of like a cosmic heart, and

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it's operating on this incredibly precise scheduled rhythm.

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Speaker 1: So our mission for this deep dive is to use

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that research. We're focusing, particularly on the highly publicized claims

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by heart astrophysicist Auvi Lobe to answer one single question.

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Is this object officially designated three I at lists just

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an unusually active, billions of years old icy.

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Speaker 2: Comment, or could that sixteen hour pulse be signaling something else,

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something far more profound, like technology, perhaps a piece of

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engineering crafted by an alien civilization.

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Speaker 1: It's such a wild question to even ask.

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Speaker 2: It is, but this is a perfect example of science

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right at the edge. On one hand, you have this

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incredibly robust, measurable data showing chemical anomalies, extreme kinematics, things

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that just don't add up. And on the other equally

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robust data pointing to in a perfectly natural, if a

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bit strange, commetary explanation. So we're going to navigate the evidence,

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the speculation, and of course a deep skepticism that really

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defines this whole controversy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's do it. Let's unpack this right from the

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very beginning. We should probably establish what three I less

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actually is. And you know how it was even discovered

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in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the initial discovery provides some really critical context. The

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object was first spotted way back in July of twenty

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twenty five. Right, it was found by NASA's Asteroid Terrestrial

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Impact Last Alert system. Everyone just calls it by its

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acronym atl.

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Speaker 1: At LS, and that's a network of telescopes right designed

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to spot things coming close to Earth exactly.

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Speaker 2: The network is primarily stationed in Chile and its whole

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job is to spot fast moving near Earth objects. So

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it was doing its job perfectly.

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Speaker 1: And the name itself three ia to LUs. That immediately

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tells you how unique this thing is. It really does

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that three I part. Yeah, that denotes that this is

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only the third observable interstellar object we have ever confirmed

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passing through our neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: Only the third I for interstellar The first was the

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infamous Umua, which had its own controversies, followed by the

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comet Borisov.

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Speaker 1: So seeing something like this is an incredibly rare occurrent.

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Speaker 2: It's exceptionally rare. And you know, when it was initially announced,

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the scientific consensus was pretty straightforward. Everyone thought, Okay, this

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is likely a typical, albeit an icy comet coming from

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where it looked like it was originating from the direction

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of the constellation Sagittarius. Initial projections calculated its trajectory and

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it was going to pass safely about one hundred and

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fifty million miles from Earth, so no threat so.

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Speaker 1: At first it was just catalog does this remarkable but

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ultimately natural piece of space to trite us exactly?

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Speaker 2: A fascinating curiosity for sure, but nothing that suggested, you know,

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an engine or a heart beat.

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Speaker 1: And that's where everything changed. That brings us to the

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key observation that really forms the core of this entire controversy,

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the enigma of the interstellar heartbeat.

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Speaker 2: Right, this is where the entire discussion just pivoted. It

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was the fact that three I out Lows appears to

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be engaging in these highly regular periodic bursts, bursts of

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what it's shooting off, these puffs of gas and dust

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what astronomers call a coma, and that coma scatters sunlight.

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Speaker 1: Which makes the object appear to brighten and then dim again,

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giving it that blinking or pulsing effect precisely.

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Speaker 2: And this wasn't just random sputtering, which you know you

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might expect from pockets of ice sublimating unevenly on a

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spinning rock.

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Speaker 1: No, this had a define rhythm. And this is where

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we go straight to the source material to AVI lob analysis.

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I think it was from his blog posts. Are the

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jets from three Atlas pulsed like a heartbeat.

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Speaker 2: That's the one lob and his collaborators. They confirmed that

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the object's light blinks repeat with the specific measurable cosmic

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cadence rate every sixteen point sixteen hours.

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Speaker 1: Wow, that's not a rough estimate. That is a highly regular,

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precise number.

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Speaker 2: Incredibly precise, which is why Lobeb famously likened it to

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the light of an interstellar lighthouse. I mean, when you

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observe that level of precision in nature, especially on a

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colossal object hurtling through space, it demands an explanation.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so the rhythm is established sixteen point sixteen hours.

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The object is moving way too fast to be orbiting anything,

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so this has to be some kind of internal cycle.

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So what are the competing explanations for it?

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Speaker 2: Low presented two really distinct hypotheses to explain lane this periodicity,

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and they really represent the core battleground here between natural

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science on one side and this incredible technological speculation on

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the other.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with the standard one, the cometary explanation hypothesis.

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One the natural ice reservoir. That's a natural heart beat analogy,

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right right.

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Speaker 2: This model is based on pretty standard thermal mechanics and

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rotation yea, we know three If Likes is rotating, I

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mean all objects in space do.

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Speaker 1: So the idea is what, it's got a big icy

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spot on it.

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Speaker 2: Essentially, yes, The hypothesis suggests that it has an ice

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reservoir or a particularly active region on its surface. So

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when that side of the object rotates to face.

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Speaker 1: The sun, the sun's radiation hits it and causes.

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Speaker 2: The frozen ice maybe it's water ice, maybe it's CO

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two ice to rapidly convert directly into gas. That process

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is called sublimation.

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Speaker 1: And that gas carries dust with it, forming that visible

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cloud the coma creating that luminous puff we see.

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Speaker 2: So when the reservoirs in the sunlight, the cosmic faucet

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is on, so to speak.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense.

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Speaker 2: But as the object continues its sixteen hour rotation cycle,

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that active spot moves to the night side, facing away

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from the.

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Speaker 1: Sun I think, gets cold again.

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Speaker 2: Temperature's plummet, the gas emission stops or at least lows

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way down, and the activity goes dark. So the light

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modulation the puffing is periodically governed by the rotation rate

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in the solar heating cycle. It's like a cosmic temperature

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regulated pump.

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Speaker 1: Which would be a perfectly natural, if you know, spectacular

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explanation for that sixteen point scene hour period.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's the most straightforward physics based explanation.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that makes perfect sense for a standard comet. But

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what about the opposing view hypothesis too, the one that

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shifts the whole discussion from thermal physics to wealth to engineering.

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Speaker 2: Hypothesis too treats that sixteen point one scene hour period

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as a purely internal operational cycle. If three ilas is

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a piece of technology, a sophisticated probe, maybe that period

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reflects its scheduled activity.

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Speaker 1: So an operational schedule, not a physical response to its environment.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. This technological cycle could involve the controlled ejection of

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material or the firing of jets that are periodically modulated.

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Speaker 1: And Lob suggested what these jets could be.

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Speaker 2: He specifically suggested they could be thrusters used for navigation.

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Think about it. A spacecraft might execute orbital corrections or

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other maneuvers only when certain conditions are met, or to conserve.

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Speaker 1: Energy, requiring a burst of propulsion every sixteen point sixteen hours.

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Speaker 2: Right in that scenario, the timing is defined by internal

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programming or maybe energy efficiency, not the rotation relative to

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the sun.

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Speaker 1: It's deliberate, the natural explanation, simple rotation. That's clearly the

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path of least resistance for most scientists. It's Okham's razor.

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But Low didn't just leave it there. He provided some

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strong arguments as to why that simple model might be

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well incomplete or.

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Speaker 2: Even insufficient to explain the nature of the light we're

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seeing right. His rebuttal focuses on the luminosity data. This

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was gathered by the Hubble Space telescope Bunch Light twenty

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first twenty twenty five, and Low pointed out that when

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you analyze the object's overall brightness, less than ten percent

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of the light we see is coming directly from the center,

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from the nucleus itself.

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Speaker 1: So the core of this Manhattan sized object is actually pretty.

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Speaker 2: Dim, extremely dim, which led Love to conclude that, and

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this is a quote, the lion's share of the object's

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glow emanates from the coma, that expanding cloud of gas

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and dust.

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Speaker 1: Okay, why is that detail so critical?

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Speaker 2: Because if the light source were dominated by the nucleus

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simply reflecting sunlight, then the rotational explanation would be ironclad.

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It would be an open and shutcase.

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Speaker 1: It would just be a blight spot spinning into view exactly.

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Speaker 2: But since the brightness is overwhelmingly dominated by the emission

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by the coma, the true mystery isn't just how fast

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the object is spinning. The real mystery is what process

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is creating such a vast, luminous and regular cloud of

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gas and dust. The focus shifts from rotation to propulsion

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or at least some kind of extreme thermal activity.

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Speaker 1: This leads us directly to the catalog of anomalies. This

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is the list of observations that, when you take them

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all together, truly make three aaa las defy any easy

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comet classification.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is where it gets really weird.

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Speaker 1: Lobe argued that the objects simply did not behave like

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any typical comet we have ever observed.

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Speaker 2: Not at all, And the initial skepticism really started to

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gain momentum in August as the object got nearer to

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the sun and our telescopes could gather higher resolution data.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with a brightness profile. The suggestion that the

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glow wasn't just reflected sunlight, right.

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Speaker 2: So Loban his colleagues they did an analysis of the

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light intensity. How it falls off across the coma. In

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a standard comet that's just reflecting solar light, you expect

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a certain predictable brightness profile, a.

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Speaker 1: Specific curve, and they didn't see that.

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Speaker 2: Their analysis suggested that the light source was highly concentrated.

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It seemed to be originating from a core diameter that

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was potentially smaller than one hundred meters.

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Speaker 1: One hundred meters. That's tiny in astronomical terms for an

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object the size of Manhattan.

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Speaker 2: It's a pin point. So why does a.

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Speaker 1: Small, intensely bright source suggest an internal engine.

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Speaker 2: Because if the light profile doesn't match standard solar reflection,

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it implies the light is being generated from within that

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small core.

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Speaker 1: It's a light bulb, not a mirror.

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Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it. For a nucleus

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of that tiny size to generate enough sustained energy to

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power the huge luminous coma they observed, it just strongly

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suggests an internal power.

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Speaker 1: Source, and Lobe took that idea to its conclusion.

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Speaker 2: He did. He went so far as to hypothesize that

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the nucleus itself could be nuclear or possibly an engine

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crafted by alien people, something actively generating light and energy

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independent of the passive reflection of the sun. It completely

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challenges the basic assumption of a dormant icy rock.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so that's the light. But then we moved to

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the chemistry which this arguably provides the most jarring evidence

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against the simple comet model. The extreme outgasing composition.

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Speaker 2: This is a major, major surprise. It was observed during

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the peak outgassing phase in August. The object was seen

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glowing bright red and it was surrounded by this conspicuous

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cloud of carbon dioxide CO two.

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Speaker 1: Now, we expect comets to outgas as they heat up,

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that's what comets do. But the problem here was the

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ratio of the gases.

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Speaker 2: Right, it was profoundly abnormal. Three ialas dumped a tremendous,

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truly consticuous amount of CO two gas, but a surprisingly

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small amount of both water H two O and carbon

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monoxide COEO.

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Speaker 1: So why is that specific ratio high CO two low

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water so bizarre for typical commet.

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Speaker 2: Well, it really boils down to this concept of the

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snow line and where things form in a solar system.

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Different volatiles freeze at different distances from a star. Okay,

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water freezes relatively close in CO two freezes farther out,

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and COO carbon monoxide freezes way way out in the

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coldest regions. A classic comet, one from our own ort

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cloud is usually rich in water.

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Speaker 1: Ice because that's the most abundant stuff.

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Speaker 2: Exactly for a body to have massive amounts of CO

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two but be deficient in water the dominant Voldel it

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suggests a really unusual formation history, or you know, maybe

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some alternative explanation like selective composition loss over billions and

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billions of years, but it doesn't fit our standard models.

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Speaker 1: And the magnitude the sheer scale of this activity was

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also shocking.

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Speaker 2: Yes, this is a key point. Lobe noted that the

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observed outgassing activity was sixteen times more extreme than what

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was expected for a typical comet at the same distance

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from the Sun.

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Speaker 1: Sixteen times.

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Speaker 2: We were talking about activity levels that are wildly disproportionate

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to the solar energy it was receiving. This isn't just

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a statistical outlier. It's a thermal event that far far

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exceeds our models for standard ice sublimation.

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Speaker 1: Sixteen times the expected rate is difficult enough to explain naturally,

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But if the odd chemistry of the gas wasn't enough

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we then arrive at the industrial signature, the bombshell, the

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emission of a highly refined metal alloy. This, for many people,

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this is the smoking gun of artificiality.

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Speaker 2: This is truly monumental. Telescopes detected the object emitting nickel

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tetracarbonal nickel tetricarbonyl.

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Speaker 1: That is that is certainly not a compound I expect

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to find in a natural space rock. Can you break

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that down for us? What is it? And why is

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its presence so hard to reconcile with natural astrochemistry?

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Speaker 2: Nickel tetricarbonyl its chemical formulas. An ICEO four is a

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highly toxic, pretty complex molecule. And crucially, it's not something

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that just forms readily in the interstellar medium or even

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inside a commt nucleus non natural. It's a highly refined

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compound that plays a central role in industrial processes right

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here on Earth, specifically something called the Moond process, which

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is used to purify nickel to a very high grade.

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Speaker 1: And what else is it used for.

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Speaker 2: It's used in manufacturing and the aerospace industry for creating

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extremely strong refined metal coatings, you know, to strengthen surface

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materials like on.

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Speaker 1: Spacecraft hole oh wait, the presence of a refined, highly

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specific chemical that we use in our own aerospace manufacturing.

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It suggests that the object has ever passed through some

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truly unique, bizarre chemical environment we've never seen.

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Speaker 2: Before, or or it was manufactured exactly. To generate this compound, naturally,

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would require a very very specific combination of temperature, pressure,

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and chemical equilibrium that is almost impossible to imagine being

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maintained over the billions of years of a.

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Speaker 1: Commet's life, or even forming in a protoplanetary disk in

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the first place.

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Speaker 2: Right, its detection just screams high temperature, highly controlled synthesis,

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in other words, manufacturing. It is perhaps the single most

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potent argument presented in the sources for a technological origin.

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Speaker 1: So let's recap. We have a precisely pulsating object exhibiting

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sixteen times the expected activity, it's chemically comprised at least

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partly of an industrial alloy, and it's showing signs of

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an internal light source.

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Speaker 2: It's a long list.

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Speaker 1: And if that wasn't enough, let's look at the kinematic evidence,

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the motion, the speed.

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Speaker 2: This is where we examine the object's movement itself. Love

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cited a report from NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory JPL that

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provided evidence of non gravity acceleration.

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Speaker 1: And this was as it approached its perihelion, its closest

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point to the sun.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 1: Now, comments do experience this naturally, don't they. It's called

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the rocket effect, when the sublimating ice sort of pushes

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them slightly off their gravitational path.

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Speaker 2: They do. And it's a standard, well understood low magnitude force.

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But Lobe noted that three ielists was showing way more

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ZIP than expected or zip. Let's put that into context.

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The non gravitational force on a typical comma is generally

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very minor. It only slightly alters the trajectory over long

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periods of time. If the force detected on three iater

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lasts exceeded this expected magnitude significantly, it moves the phenomenon

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from passive venting to potentially active propulsion.

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Speaker 1: So we're talking about a difference in magnitude that suggests efficiency. Right,

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00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,279
A highly efficient thruster system designed for steering would produce

320
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a much stronger non gravitational push than just disorganized plumes

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of sublimating ice.

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Speaker 2: Precisely, if the force you need to explain the trajectory

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perturbation is orders of magnitude greater than what basic sublimation

324
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physics can account for than the simplest explanation. In some

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00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,279
ways is a controlled engine or thruster system operating with

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high efficiency. This kinematic anomaly supports all the other structural

327
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:14,200
and chemical anomalies.

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Speaker 1: The complexity just keeps piling on as the objects sped up.

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It also changed colors and showed a complex jet structure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the color shift was peculiar. The object began appearing

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bluer than the sun, bluer than the sun. Now, Lupi

332
00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:28,759
hypothesized that this could be a natural signature. Maybe the

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00:16:28,879 --> 00:16:32,080
light was scattering off specific very small dust particles in

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the coma, a phenomenon we understand. However, the dual hypothesis

335
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suggests that if the light source is artificial, the bluer

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color indicates higher energy or temperature.

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Speaker 1: Right because in physics, bluer light corresponds to higher temperatures,

338
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like a blacksmith heating metal from red hot to white

339
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hot to.

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Speaker 2: Blue hot exactly, So, if the blue light is being

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generated by an internal source, it suggests a very very hot,

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energetic engine.

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Speaker 1: And what about the jets.

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Speaker 2: The final piece of the visual evidence supporting the technological

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hypothesis came from images captured on November eighth. They showed

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a complex jet.

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Speaker 1: Structure, meaning not just one big plume right.

348
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Speaker 2: Instead of a simple uniform plume that you'd associate with

349
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a single pocket of sublimating ice, the images showed multiple

350
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potentially regulated jets. Lobe suggested this could be a set

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of thrusters used for navigation and stabilization, like the complex

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maneuvering system on a sophisticated spacecraft, rather than just simple

353
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chaotic venting.

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Speaker 1: Wow, it sounds like based on the evidence Log and

355
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his team compiled, this object is almost explicitly designed to

356
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:42,559
confuse us. We have the periodicity, the industrial alloys, extreme outgassing,

357
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,440
excessive acceleration, complex jets.

358
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Speaker 2: It's a whole suite of anomalies.

359
00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:50,400
Speaker 1: But as responsible scientists, we can't just accept the most

360
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exotic explanation without a fight. We have to acknowledge the

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significant scientific counter narrative.

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Speaker 2: That's absolutely essential, and the overwhelming consensus from now in

363
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:05,200
the wider astronomical community leans heavily toward natural explanations, even

364
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if they require stretching our current models quite a bit.

365
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Speaker 1: What's the core of their dismissal of Lobe's claims.

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Speaker 2: It often revolves around the idea that while the anomalies

367
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are extreme, they are still within the realm of potential

368
00:18:17,599 --> 00:18:21,440
cometary diversity, especially for an interstellar object which might have

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formed in conditions far, far different from our own solar system.

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Speaker 1: So what are some of the specific rebuttals that were

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cited in the sources.

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Speaker 2: They range from methodological criticism like claims that focusing on

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the technological hypothesis is irresponsible science that just sensationalizes the data,

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to simpler arguments rooted in probability. Many mainstream astronomers argue

375
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that the individual anomalies are just coincidences and that eventually,

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you know, a natural explanation will be found for all

377
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of them, one by one.

378
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Speaker 1: The argument being that once an object is large enough,

379
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close enough to the Sun and reflecting enough light, it

380
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basically conforms to the physics of a comet. And they're

381
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discovering a lot of these things every night.

382
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Speaker 2: That's the general idea, But the scientific community knew they

383
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,000
needed something concrete, a definitive piece of evidence that could

384
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bring this whole conversation back to fundamental natural processes to

385
00:19:14,319 --> 00:19:17,799
counter those industrial signature claims, and they found it they did.

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This is the crucial turning point in the narrative. The

387
00:19:20,839 --> 00:19:24,599
key counter evidence arrived on October twenty fourth through radio astronomy.

388
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It provided the smoking gun for water.

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Speaker 1: Okay, tell us about this radio signal discovery and the

390
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,400
significance of these hydrochyle radicals.

391
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,319
Speaker 2: On October twenty fourth, the Mercat radio telescope in South

392
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,920
Africa successfully detected a very faint radio signal that was

393
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,400
originating from three I eight.

394
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Speaker 1: Lasts And this signal contained what.

395
00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:48,480
Speaker 2: It contained, definitive radio absorption lines by hydroxyl radicals. Ohh.

396
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And this wasn't just a lucky random detection. It was

397
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the result of persistent efforts after two failed attempts back

398
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,240
in September, which really shows the community's focus on identifying

399
00:19:58,599 --> 00:20:00,000
known cometary signatures.

400
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 1: Okay, let's break down the chemistry here for a second.

401
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,079
Why is oh an unambiguous signature of water loss and

402
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,079
why does this one observation ground the argument so firmly

403
00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:10,240
that this is just a comment.

404
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,160
Speaker 2: So hydroxyl radicals are a direct byproduct of water molecules

405
00:20:14,279 --> 00:20:16,640
H two O interacting with the sun. When water ice

406
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,319
sublimates and escapes the comet's nucleus, the ultraviolet radiation from

407
00:20:20,319 --> 00:20:22,240
the sun is powerful enough to strip off one of

408
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the hydrogen atoms.

409
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Speaker 1: It breaks the water molecule apart.

410
00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:28,039
Speaker 2: Exactly, it breaks the H two molecule into an OH

411
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,400
radical and a single hydrogen atom H. The process is

412
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called photodissociation.

413
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Speaker 1: So if you detect OH, you are absolutely one hundred

414
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percent confirming that H two is being lost from the object.

415
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,640
Speaker 2: Precisely. The detection of OH strongly suggests that three I

416
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:46,240
lisses actively losing water while flying by the sun, and

417
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,440
water loss is the defining characteristic of an icy body

418
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a comet. It directly refutes any claim that the object

419
00:20:53,599 --> 00:20:59,000
is purely a complex, dry engineered structure incapable of natural processes.

420
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It proves that despite those unusual ratios we talked about earlier,

421
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water ice is present and it is active.

422
00:21:05,319 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 1: This forces us into the synthesis moment. Then we now

423
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:12,480
have two competing, highly detailed sets of evidence. How do

424
00:21:12,519 --> 00:21:16,119
we reconcile the fact that three iadalysts simultaneously possesses the

425
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,400
unambiguous signature of natural water loss. The OH and the

426
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:25,319
chemical signature of highly refined industrial manufacturing the nickel tetracarbonyl.

427
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Speaker 2: And that is the profound scientific tension that keeps this

428
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:31,000
mystery alive. The mainstream argument it attempts to dismiss the

429
00:21:31,079 --> 00:21:34,000
nickel tetracarbonyl as an anomaly we just don't understand yet.

430
00:21:34,039 --> 00:21:37,079
They argue that the OH detection trumps everything else, confirming

431
00:21:37,079 --> 00:21:38,960
its fundamental nature as an icy body.

432
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Speaker 1: So they might speculate that the nickel compounds were formed

433
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,359
through some highly unusual localized thermal events inside the nucleus

434
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that our models just haven't accounted for yet exactly.

435
00:21:48,079 --> 00:21:51,720
Speaker 2: But the LoVa hypothesis forces a deeper consideration, doesn't it.

436
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,519
It pushes us to consider if the object could be

437
00:21:54,559 --> 00:21:59,519
partially natural and partially technological hybrid. Absolutely, what if the

438
00:21:59,559 --> 00:22:02,720
object isn't a ship built from scratch, but rather a

439
00:22:02,759 --> 00:22:07,759
structure that utilized a natural captured icy body, as say

440
00:22:08,079 --> 00:22:09,759
a shield or a fuel source.

441
00:22:10,079 --> 00:22:12,759
Speaker 1: So a probe might have been encased in a massive

442
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,039
natural water ice shell for billions of years to protect

443
00:22:16,079 --> 00:22:18,200
it from interstellar radiation.

444
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Speaker 2: And now that shell is shedding as it gets close

445
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to our Sun, revealing the technological core underneath. Which is

446
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,759
why we would see the industrial alloy and the oh

447
00:22:26,839 --> 00:22:27,759
lines at the same time.

448
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Speaker 1: That is a mind bending hypothesis.

449
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,839
Speaker 2: It is, but it's the kind of hypothesis that contradictory

450
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:36,440
data forces you to entertain. The fact is, the detection

451
00:22:36,559 --> 00:22:39,839
of both makes this object completely unique, whether it turns

452
00:22:39,839 --> 00:22:41,160
out to be natural or artificial.

453
00:22:41,559 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: Okay, let's move past the contradiction for a moment and

454
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,880
look toward the future. We need to talk about monitoring

455
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,000
this mystery. The object's closest approach to the Sun, it's perihelium.

456
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That was a critical moment.

457
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Speaker 2: The perihelium occurred on October twenty ninth. Unfortunately for all

458
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of us here on Earth, this was the absolute worst

459
00:22:58,759 --> 00:23:03,480
time to watch. Why three I Atlas was effectively unobservable

460
00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:06,759
from Earth because the Sun was directly positioned between us

461
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and the object. It was in what's called solar conjunction.

462
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Speaker 1: So we were blinded by the Sun just when things

463
00:23:12,279 --> 00:23:14,240
got most interesting exactly.

464
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,079
Speaker 2: Low may be a bit playfully mused whether this occultation

465
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,359
might have been for a reason, but in reality it

466
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,079
was likely just an unlucky coincidence and timing, so we missed.

467
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 1: The closest most heated approach. But what have we learned

468
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,240
about its resilience? Did it survive?

469
00:23:29,599 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 2: It did despite the difficulty. Observations confirmed that the object

470
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,440
maintained its structural integrity. It did not break up into

471
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,119
smaller fragments, which often happens to less robust comets during

472
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that intense solar heating.

473
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Speaker 1: That suggests a highly cohesive structure, regardless of whether that

474
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,559
cohesion comes from incredibly strong ice or you know, a

475
00:23:48,599 --> 00:23:50,079
technological superstructure.

476
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,039
Speaker 2: Right. And we also confirm that jets were still visible

477
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coming from it after it emerged from behind the sun.

478
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,279
Speaker 1: And what's the most recent phenomenon Low has been studying

479
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,160
related to that structural.

480
00:23:59,759 --> 00:24:04,759
Speaker 2: INTI He's currently analyzing a phenomenon called tidal disruption. He

481
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,920
observed a razor thin stream of material trailing the object.

482
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,640
But what made this peculiar was that the material was

483
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,839
observed streaming both in the direction of the sun and

484
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:15,920
opposite to the sun.

485
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: That seems counterintuitive for a single injection. Why would materials

486
00:24:20,039 --> 00:24:22,079
stream in two opposing directions at once.

487
00:24:22,319 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 2: This is a classic sign that supports the theory of

488
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,799
tidal disruption. Tidal forces are the differential gravitational forces exerted

489
00:24:29,839 --> 00:24:33,480
by a large object, in this case, our Sun, across

490
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:34,880
the breadth of a smaller object.

491
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: So the Sun's gravity pulls harder on the side of

492
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,559
three ilis facing it.

493
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,920
Speaker 2: And less hard on the side facing away. If the

494
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,160
object is fragile, this gravitational gradient literally stretches the object

495
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:45,680
like taffy.

496
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 1: So the gravity of the Sun is physically stretching it,

497
00:24:48,279 --> 00:24:50,759
drawing out streams of material from both the near and

498
00:24:50,799 --> 00:24:53,200
the far side simultaneously exactly.

499
00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: Lois studying the possibility that these two streams of material

500
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,839
stretched by the Sun's gravitational tide have been elongated to

501
00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:04,920
an enormous scale. We're talking perhaps a million kilometers or

502
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:05,680
even longer.

503
00:25:05,759 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 1: And what does that mean for the debate?

504
00:25:08,079 --> 00:25:12,279
Speaker 2: Well, if confirmed, tidal disruption is a powerful natural process

505
00:25:12,559 --> 00:25:16,720
that explains mass loss without requiring any kind of active propulsion,

506
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,400
it suggests the material streams we're seeing are merely the

507
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,440
Sun shredding the outer layers of a fragile object. It's

508
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,960
a strong data point for the It's just a comet

509
00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:29,720
side though, you still have to account for the internal composition.

510
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,839
Speaker 1: So what does all this mean for getting a final

511
00:25:32,319 --> 00:25:36,119
definitive answer. Loweb provided a really clear roadmap. Didn't He

512
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:39,880
three specific methods that scientists should pursue with the incoming

513
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,240
data to settle this question.

514
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 2: Yes, and this roadmap is crucial because it transforms the

515
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,160
debate from philosophical speculation into empirical measurement. It gives us

516
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,240
a way to test it, okay.

517
00:25:49,319 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: Method one is all about confirming the precision of that pulse.

518
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 2: Yes, real time monitoring scientists must create a high resolution

519
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,720
movie of the object to see precisely how it brightens

520
00:26:00,759 --> 00:26:04,839
and dims. This means confirming that the sixteen point sixteen

521
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,680
hour pulse is maintained consistently even as the distance from

522
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,880
the sun changes and the heating changes.

523
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: And if the cadence is absolutely clockwork regardless of external influence.

524
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,599
Speaker 2: It strengthens the case for an internally controlled cycle. But

525
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,960
if the timing varies even slightly based on solar heating,

526
00:26:22,279 --> 00:26:25,240
it would support the natural rotation and sublimation model.

527
00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: Message two focuses on the direction of the variation, which

528
00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:31,599
seems like a powerful way to distinguish between the two

529
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:32,640
core hypotheses.

530
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: This is critical for figuring out the source of the jets.

531
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,000
Scientists need to monitor whether the jets and the brightness

532
00:26:39,079 --> 00:26:42,480
variations are oriented in the direction of the sun, which.

533
00:26:42,279 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 1: Is the hallmark of a natural process driven by solar

534
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:45,759
heating right.

535
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,039
Speaker 2: Venting along the line of maximum heat, or they need

536
00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:51,880
to see if the ejections are in some other arbitrary.

537
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 1: Direction, and an arbitrary direction would suggest it.

538
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 2: Would suggest active intentional navigation. Imagine a ship adjusting its

539
00:26:58,559 --> 00:27:01,480
course it fires, is a thruster in the direction it

540
00:27:01,519 --> 00:27:04,440
needs to go to change trajectory, not simply because the

541
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,319
sun is heating that particular side of the hull. Observing

542
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,680
highly controlled jet directionality unrelated to the sun's angle would

543
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,799
be a very strong indicator of technology.

544
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,039
Speaker 1: Okay, And finally, method three gets to the heart of

545
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:21,400
the rocket effect versus alien engine comparison. This is about

546
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,400
analyzing the speed and composition of the mass being lost.

547
00:27:24,519 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 2: This is the most crucial quantifiable tests of all. Researchers

548
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,759
must determine the speed, the precise composition, and the fraction

549
00:27:31,839 --> 00:27:34,799
of mass being lost in those jets. We know that

550
00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:39,880
sublimation processes ice turning to gas produce relatively slow moving jets.

551
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: A few hundred meters per second, maybe.

552
00:27:41,519 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 2: Right, But if analysis shows that the jets are moving

553
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,039
at orders of magnitude larger speed, say kilometers per second

554
00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:49,759
rather than meters per second than what's expected from the

555
00:27:49,799 --> 00:27:51,480
slow release of gases from ice.

556
00:27:51,799 --> 00:27:55,519
Speaker 1: That would strongly suggest control technologically produced propulsion.

557
00:27:55,799 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 2: It would have to It would require a highly efficient,

558
00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:02,839
focused energy lease that only an engine, as we understand it,

559
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:03,559
can provide.

560
00:28:03,759 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: So we know, the best data so far came from

561
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,519
Hubble back in July and the James Webb Space Telescope

562
00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:13,720
in August. When can we expect this crucial new data

563
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,559
to execute Lobe's roadmap and potentially finally resolve this debate.

564
00:28:18,759 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 2: The scientific community is anticipating a significant flood of additional

565
00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:25,640
high resolution data in early December. This will come from

566
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:26,400
both Hubble and.

567
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,759
Speaker 1: Web and these space based observations are vital.

568
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,880
Speaker 2: They're everything. They aren't hampered by Earth's atmosphere, which allows

569
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,920
for incredibly precise, compositional and kinematic analysis, and that will

570
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,160
supplement the continuous tracking that's already underway by hundreds of

571
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:41,400
global observatories.

572
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: And all of this immense scientific effort is leading toward

573
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,279
one specific moment.

574
00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:48,359
Speaker 2: The grand finale December nineteenth, twenty twenty five, That is

575
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,200
the date that three ILS will make its closest passive Earth.

576
00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:53,799
It'll be at roughly one hundred and fifty million miles,

577
00:28:54,079 --> 00:28:56,440
which is still very far, of course, but it provides

578
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,920
the absolute best viewing geometry and proximity for scientists to

579
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:04,640
gather the highest quality data possible to definitively determine its nature.

580
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,599
The next few weeks are going to be absolutely electrifying

581
00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:08,960
for astronomers around the world.

582
00:29:09,359 --> 00:29:13,359
Speaker 1: What was av Loobis's final reflective thought on this entire event?

583
00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:15,799
Regardless of the final outcome.

584
00:29:16,039 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 2: He acknowledged that whether THREEILS is a massive, odd rocky

585
00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:23,839
iceberg or a sophisticated alien probe, its journey through our

586
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,599
Solar system is a momentous occasion for astronomy. He concluded

587
00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:30,480
that we should regard it as a very lucky blind

588
00:29:30,559 --> 00:29:33,759
date from interstellar space. I like that. Yeah, he's emphasizing

589
00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:36,559
that the sheer opportunity for discovery, the chance to examine

590
00:29:36,599 --> 00:29:40,039
material from another star system up close, is invaluable no

591
00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:41,279
matter what it turns out to be.

592
00:29:41,559 --> 00:29:44,799
Speaker 1: This has been an extraordinary deep dive. We've synthesized two

593
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,319
incredibly distinct narratives. On one side, You've got compelling fundamental

594
00:29:49,359 --> 00:29:54,119
scientific data supporting natural cometary behavior, the hydroxyl radical signature

595
00:29:54,119 --> 00:29:57,680
confirming water loss, the evidence of tidal disruption, and.

596
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,599
Speaker 2: On the other side you have these profound un anomalies,

597
00:30:01,079 --> 00:30:05,759
the industrial signature of nickel tetracarbonol, this sixteen times more

598
00:30:05,799 --> 00:30:10,240
extreme outgassing, the non gravitational acceleration, and of course that

599
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,160
precise sixteen point sixteen hour pulse.

600
00:30:13,359 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 1: The tension is rooted in the fact that we have

601
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,920
never ever observed an object that simultaneously presents such strong

602
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,920
evidence for both natural formation and industrial processing.

603
00:30:24,119 --> 00:30:26,519
Speaker 2: It forces us to stretch our understanding of one of

604
00:30:26,559 --> 00:30:31,079
two things. Either natural processes in exotic star systems are

605
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,440
far weirder than we imagined, or the potential scope of

606
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,359
alien engineering is something we have to start taking seriously.

607
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: It certainly elevates the stakes of discovery. Whether it turns

608
00:30:40,519 --> 00:30:42,920
out to be a comet that completely challenges our models

609
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,599
of astrochemistry or turns out to be proof of engineering,

610
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,400
the insights we're going to gain in December will fundamentally

611
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:49,759
alter our view of the universe.

612
00:30:50,039 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: I agree the journey of three Ithos has already pushed

613
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,920
the boundaries of what we thought was possible in celestial

614
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,000
mechanics and chemistry.

615
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: So here's the question for you, our listener, to ponder

616
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:02,960
as we all wait for the data from December nineteenth.

617
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:06,559
Given all the evidence we've discussed the natural signatures versus

618
00:31:06,599 --> 00:31:10,279
the industrial anomalies, which factor do you find most difficult

619
00:31:10,319 --> 00:31:13,160
to explain with a purely natural model? Is that the

620
00:31:13,319 --> 00:31:17,599
highly refined industrial signature of nickel petricarbonyl which seems to

621
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,319
just scream manufacturing?

622
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 2: Or is it the mathematically precise sixteen point one cen

623
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,119
hour heartbeat pulse that seems almost too regular two clockwork

624
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:28,599
for passive ice sublimation.

625
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,519
Speaker 1: And what outcome do you anticipate scientists will confirm on

626
00:31:31,559 --> 00:31:32,599
December nineteenth, I.

627
00:31:32,599 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 2: For one can't wait to see what answers those space

628
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:35,079
telescopes to provide.

629
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,359
Speaker 1: Let us know, Share your thoughts and theories with us

630
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:40,480
Until next time, keep following the thrilling threads of discovery