WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:02.799 Boundlish Authenticity podcast. 2 00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:09.240 James Robbins is an international keynote speaker and leadership expert 3 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:13.880 known for helping organizations create high performing cultures. He is 4 00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:16.559 the author of Nine Minutes on Monday and the upcoming 5 00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:21.039 book The Call to Climb Wiley, releasing in August twenty 6 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:24.920 twenty five, a transformational fable set in the Andes that 7 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:28.359 guides readers to reconnect with purpose and live more intentionally. 8 00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:31.960 With over twenty years of experience, James has spoken to 9 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:36.159 audiences across Fortune five hundred companies and global organizations. 10 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:42.520 James, how's it going going good? So glad to be here. Thanks? 11 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:46.840 Yeah, awesome, Thanks for being on with me. So my 12 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:50.479 first question, like I said, I don't have any questions 13 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:55.240 for you, but I'm gonna wing it. What are the 14 00:00:55.280 --> 00:00:59.320 most significant experiences that put you on the path that 15 00:00:59.359 --> 00:00:59.880 you're on now? 16 00:01:01.799 --> 00:01:02.200 Wow? 17 00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:08.079 One of the most I would say, I would say 18 00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:11.879 they were being in college, not knowing what I wanted 19 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:14.719 to do and wanting to take some time off, but 20 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.200 everybody telling you you can't do that, and even my 21 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:20.439 parents at the time, you can't do that. If you 22 00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:23.000 do that, we're going to stop paying for college. But 23 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:25.959 still feeling inside of me like I need to get 24 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:29.200 out of here, and I'd left and took some friends 25 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:31.439 with me. We went down to South Pacific and spent 26 00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:34.040 like six months traveling around. I mean, this is like 27 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:40.640 nineteen late nineteen eighties, nineteen ninety kind of time. So 28 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:44.480 it was definitely a different time, but it was getting 29 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:48.040 away from everything to then think clearly what I want 30 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:51.239 to do with my life. And I would say that 31 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:54.079 would be one significant moment. You know, I'm an older guy, 32 00:01:54.120 --> 00:01:57.159 so I got several others, but let's start with that one. 33 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:03.239 Fair enough, you're talking late eighties. I probably wasn't even 34 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:06.840 like two yet. 35 00:02:08.039 --> 00:02:11.879 So yeah, different world traveling then was uh, I mean 36 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:14.759 you had to take there's no bank cards, right like, 37 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:17.400 there was no you didn't take your card, dude, Well 38 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:18.240 there was bank cards. 39 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:19.400 Shouldn't say that there wasn't. 40 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:22.719 But back then you went and got travelers shacks, American 41 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:25.639 Express travelers shacks. It was like carrying cash with you. 42 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:29.000 It's so dangerous when you think about it now. And yeah, 43 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:31.240 wherever you went felt like a long ways from home 44 00:02:31.280 --> 00:02:33.919 because you could only write a letter or phone call. 45 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:34.560 That was it. 46 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:40.960 Yeah, So I mean we're talking about stuff deck the 47 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:42.680 kids of this day and Angel would be like what 48 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:48.759 a travelers check. But I mean, I guess no matter 49 00:02:48.759 --> 00:02:53.639 what generation you're from, you're likely to have had a 50 00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:59.759 moment where some things happened and you realize you had 51 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:01.919 to find yourself? Am I correct? Containing So. 52 00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:07.479 Yeah, absolutely, Well, I think that's the myth right that 53 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:10.599 we have to find ourselves. But the reality is you 54 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:14.080 don't need to find anything. You need to decide who 55 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:18.120 you're going to be. And I guess finding yourself is 56 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:21.759 more about getting rid of all the other voices and 57 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:27.039 noises and societal expectations of your life and answering the 58 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.080 question if I could be completely honest with no judgment 59 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:33.759 and nobody cared about what I would do, what would 60 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:35.719 I do? And when we can strip that out of 61 00:03:35.759 --> 00:03:38.840 way and then ask ourselves that question and not be 62 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:40.719 afraid of the answer, just don't judge it. 63 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:42.840 And then what is it? What is it that you 64 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:43.319 want to do? 65 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:49.080 So in your experience, what are the most common barriers 66 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:52.159 you would say that people have to finding that inner voice, 67 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:56.159 and you know, just asking that question, what do I 68 00:03:56.199 --> 00:03:56.520 want to do? 69 00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:00.000 People are just afraid of the answer. 70 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:02.639 To be honest, they're afraid to really ask themselves that 71 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:07.400 question because they I think, deep down inside, right, I 72 00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:09.280 believe all of us have a soul, whether you want 73 00:04:09.280 --> 00:04:13.120 to call it soul, psyche, inner life. We all have 74 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:17.120 an inner life, a soul that knows us better than 75 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:20.680 we do, and it knows the right path for us. 76 00:04:21.279 --> 00:04:25.600 And the thing that's, honestly, the universal thing, is we're 77 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.279 just afraid. We're afraid to walk our own path because 78 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:31.360 what does that mean in the context of my tribe. 79 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:34.800 And at the end of the day, we have all 80 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:41.920 been programmed by society, by parents to fit in. And 81 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:44.319 there's a part of that. Of course, that's part of 82 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:47.040 success in your early life when you don't have the 83 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:50.639 strength of ego strength. But as you get older, right, 84 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:53.759 that's where people hit those midlife crises where they start 85 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.079 to think, wait, what am I doing with my life? 86 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:57.680 Is this what I want to do with my life? 87 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:00.800 And it's sort of, as doctor James calls it, a 88 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:05.079 collision of selves, right, kind of the self that you've 89 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:07.240 always known and then all of a sudden this other 90 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:10.480 self that shows up on the scene that says, hey, 91 00:05:10.879 --> 00:05:12.000 I don't. 92 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:13.199 Think we're actually really happy here. 93 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:16.519 And whether it's in our job, our career, our relationship, 94 00:05:16.759 --> 00:05:19.879 or you know, one of these big things in life, 95 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:23.759 and people are afraid to have that conversation with their soul. 96 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:27.160 Do you think this is a skill that could be 97 00:05:27.160 --> 00:05:33.600 taught in schools? Well, good question. I think that yes, 98 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:35.560 I think it can be taught because. 99 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:41.439 As people learn about themselves, right, so as the ancients 100 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:45.879 were right about know thyself, but as people learn why 101 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:49.360 they are the way they are, and then once they 102 00:05:49.399 --> 00:05:52.399 start to see, oh, this is the way, this is 103 00:05:52.399 --> 00:05:55.600 why I think like this, But what do I want 104 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:57.600 to do with my life? Like what do I want 105 00:05:57.639 --> 00:05:59.480 to do? And who do I want to be? And 106 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:01.959 once we answer those two questions, right, once we can 107 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:06.279 set that sort of north star and create Now we 108 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:11.439 have a compass. So now when that inner programming wants 109 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:14.720 us to people please, wants us to not hold a 110 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:19.079 boundary and you know, punishes us with that anxiety to 111 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:22.439 cave or to fit in or to compromise, we can 112 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:25.319 recognize that and then we can say, oh, I know 113 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:29.000 what this is, but here's my compass, and so this 114 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:31.120 is the decision I need to make. So yes, I 115 00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:34.959 think you could teach that in the later grades. But 116 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:38.800 I mean peer pressure in the tribe is it's never 117 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:41.240 stronger than when we're in middle school in high school. 118 00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:52.160 So, having said that, do you think that any other forces, 119 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:55.720 you know, people claim childhood trauma is a factor. Do 120 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:57.800 you think things like that really factoring or do you 121 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:03.120 think people are just generally making up self justifications so 122 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:06.720 that they don't have to live in a bigger experience 123 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:08.959 than what they ultimately already have. 124 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:15.920 Well, people who have traumas, especially when they're young, of course, 125 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:20.040 those are very powerful forces that live within and it's 126 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:24.319 a little bit like it's almost like it's almost like 127 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:27.360 living in a haunted house at times, where that energy 128 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:29.279 can rise up and take over and all of a 129 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:33.160 sudden somebody lashes out and then later they're like, I. 130 00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:35.439 Can't believe I did that, you know, like who was that? 131 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:39.920 So those energies are all inside of us, and wounds, 132 00:07:40.439 --> 00:07:43.240 you know, everyone has them, but some of them, you know, 133 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:48.000 some went through even more trauma than others. So it's 134 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:51.519 not that those things are not real. They are. And 135 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:53.199 a lot of the things that happened to us when 136 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:55.879 we were younger, it's not our fault, right, Like some 137 00:07:55.920 --> 00:08:01.319 of that early hardwiring that's not our fault, but once 138 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:06.279 we learn about it, it becomes our responsibility. So you 139 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:10.120 can just claim your trauma all your life and as 140 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:12.079 the reason why you can't do X, Y and Z. 141 00:08:12.759 --> 00:08:15.399 But for every person who says that, I can find 142 00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:20.120 another person who has a similar trauma, but they figured out, like, 143 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:22.160 I am not going to let this run my life. 144 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:23.920 Because at the end of the day, that's what we're 145 00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:27.800 talking about, is who's in charge of your life? And 146 00:08:27.839 --> 00:08:30.680 if it's you, right, if you're going to take charge 147 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:34.159 of your life, then okay, well what's that going to 148 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:36.080 look like? And I'm going to live an intentional life 149 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:39.399 because if you think about it, most of our life 150 00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:42.600 we just run on autopilot. And when we're on autopilot, 151 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:46.200 all those programs they're the ones running the show, right, 152 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:49.679 like they're driving the car at that point. But when 153 00:08:49.759 --> 00:08:52.919 we step forward and be like, okay, no, I might 154 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:56.720 feel this, but I am doing this now, we're taking charge. 155 00:08:57.399 --> 00:09:01.480 But if you compare, like I was reading, how the 156 00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:08.159 brain can process like eleven million bits of information a 157 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:13.840 second eleven million, but your conscious mind can only process 158 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:18.159 about forty or fifty bits. So this is one of 159 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:22.440 the ways that subconscious I don't say bullies us attimes 160 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:25.840 because that would be a negative term because it's all protective, right, 161 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:28.519 it's just trying to protect you. But one of the 162 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:34.080 tools that the subconscious uses is selective attention, like it 163 00:09:34.080 --> 00:09:37.080 will show you in a sense, it almost controls what 164 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:40.080 you're going to see, which is why. Also when you 165 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:42.480 are trying to achieve a goal, or you want to 166 00:09:42.519 --> 00:09:45.799 go on a trip to Hawaii, your subconscious also now 167 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:48.639 just opens up that portal and now you're starting to 168 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:51.840 see everything from Hawaii right come in and just how 169 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:55.440 the brain works. So it also works in a way 170 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:59.960 to protect you that you don't even know that it's happening. 171 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:04.679 And what you are not aware. 172 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:08.159 Of rules you, right, Like what you are not aware 173 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:14.240 of is your master until you know that it's mastering you, 174 00:10:14.360 --> 00:10:18.639 and now I can take over and live more intentionally. 175 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:25.679 I think this is very true. If people would admit 176 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:28.480 to themselves that they're not as smart as they think 177 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:31.120 they are, and that we have a mechanism that's actually 178 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:34.600 doing ninety five percent of everything for us on autopilot, 179 00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:38.679 then we could begin to make a change from that position. 180 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:41.480 But I. 181 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:46.799 Struggle myself trying to get people to understand that information 182 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:49.720 and just really, you know, you're stupid. We're all stupid. 183 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:53.120 If you think about how the brain looks when it's 184 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:55.559 connected to all the nerve endings and stuff, you take 185 00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:57.960 away all the flesh and everything just kind of looks 186 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:02.639 like a big jelly rolled, fraggle looking thing. And that's 187 00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:06.120 what we are, and it's got information in it. How 188 00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:10.480 do you override that? And with that comes the question 189 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:14.960 what does living more intentionally mean? 190 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:20.039 Living more intentionally is first getting clear about what do 191 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:23.919 you want? And a lot of people can answer that question. 192 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:25.679 You know, hey, what do you want? What do you mean? 193 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:27.080 What do I want? What do you want? 194 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:30.879 Then sometimes they'll say, well, what am I allowed to want? 195 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:34.080 You know, what can I want? Well, no, what do 196 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:34.440 you want? 197 00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:35.000 What do you want? 198 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:36.960 In life? What do you want? 199 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:40.639 And that's the first thing for them to begin to 200 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:42.799 get clear on that and to help it. You know, 201 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:45.320 you can narrow that down to you know, as a father, 202 00:11:45.559 --> 00:11:47.399 So for me, I have adult children, Well, what do 203 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:51.360 I want? What do I want in the relationship I 204 00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:52.320 have with my children? 205 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:52.679 Well? 206 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:56.000 What do I believe about raising adult children? Why do 207 00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:58.159 I believe that? Is that my belief? Or is that 208 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:01.240 the did did my church tell me that? Or do 209 00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:02.039 my parents say? 210 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:03.200 Like? What do I believe? 211 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:06.919 And what do I want that relationship to be? So 212 00:12:06.960 --> 00:12:08.960 it starts, you know, if you want to get granular, 213 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:11.720 it starts there. But the second piece to that is, 214 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:14.720 well who am I going to be? Right like as 215 00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:17.919 a person, who am I going to be? And once 216 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:23.720 you get clear on those two things right now, we 217 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:27.039 can start to move in that direction. So what happens 218 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:28.440 is a lot of people think, well, I want to 219 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:31.000 find you know, I want to live a purposeful life. Well, 220 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:33.639 of course you do, and then they go into this 221 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:38.279 I get a search for my purpose. But really this 222 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:41.200 is my belief. Your purpose is to bring the most 223 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:44.279 authentic and honest version of you to this world. 224 00:12:45.200 --> 00:12:47.679 And it's it's not an easy task. 225 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:51.759 Your purpose is not found in building schools in some 226 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:54.639 developing country, though you might go do that. That might 227 00:12:54.679 --> 00:12:56.919 be one of your worthy pursuits in the course of 228 00:12:56.960 --> 00:12:57.679 your lifetime. 229 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:01.039 But your purpose here is is to bring that full 230 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:01.759 expression of you. 231 00:13:02.639 --> 00:13:07.840 It's like every single person has a unique song to play, 232 00:13:08.759 --> 00:13:11.120 and no one plays anyone else's song. And if you 233 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:17.399 don't play it, the world doesn't get to hear it. 234 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.960 Right, So do you so start by getting clear? 235 00:13:19.240 --> 00:13:22.840 Oh sorry to cut you off. So you're saying, start 236 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:23.960 by getting clear on that. 237 00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:24.919 I agree? 238 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:28.879 And do you think that commonly people fall into the 239 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:34.240 purpose trap, thinking that they must have this overarching, divine 240 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:36.840 purpose and then they get so scared that they just 241 00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:38.759 don't do anything at all or they don't know what 242 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:39.120 to do. 243 00:13:40.840 --> 00:13:41.639 Yeah, exactly. 244 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:43.919 And you know, there's a lot of stuff online about 245 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:46.559 helping you find your purpose, and I've even heard guys 246 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:47.879 say like, oh, I can help you find it in 247 00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:51.279 two minutes, and it's used this formula and it sounds 248 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:53.799 more like a marketing slogan like I helped you know, 249 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:55.879 such and such people solve this problem. 250 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:00.120 So to me, that's that's just missing it. That that 251 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:01.360 doesn't mean that that's not great. 252 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:03.919 And that's what I call a worthy pursuit, right, Like 253 00:14:04.039 --> 00:14:06.320 you might have a worthy pursuit at some point in 254 00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:07.000 your life that. 255 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:07.919 Changes later on. 256 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:11.879 It's a little bit like I use this example in 257 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:15.440 the book that's coming out, The Call to Climb, where 258 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:19.440 it's a story about a woman who was a professional speaker, 259 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:22.960 motivational speaker, and you would speak all the time and 260 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:25.360 she loved it. She was changing lives, and she was like, 261 00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:27.759 this is my purpose, this is what I was meant 262 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:31.360 to do. So we'll say things like that. Well, then 263 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:33.600 you know, something happened and she had to get a 264 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:37.519 surgery on her throat and there was basically an accident 265 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:41.679 and she lost her voice and couldn't speak anymore. So 266 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.679 falls into this depression because while my purpose has been 267 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:51.240 taken away from me, but not realizing that. No, her 268 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:53.799 purpose wasn't standing on stage, that was just the vehicle 269 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:56.960 she was using. Her purpose is to bring that full 270 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:00.360 expression of her and so she can so so even 271 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:04.960 though that's tragic what happened, she can find other vehicles 272 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:09.000 to spread that message, writing or whatever it might be. 273 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:13.600 And as she began to do that, right coach, then 274 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.559 it came back to her again like, ah, this is 275 00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:18.399 I was like, this is what I meant to do. 276 00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:25.080 So it's separating sometimes your purpose from the worthy pursuit, 277 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:28.639 because otherwise, if you're trying to find your purpose, like 278 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:31.399 what's that job, what's that career, that's so much pressure 279 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:36.919 because maybe you will go build schools in a developing country, 280 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:39.559 and after two years of that, maybe you'll go you 281 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:42.840 know what I'm done with this. I want to do 282 00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:46.879 something else. And I've worked in the not for profit 283 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:51.000 space before, where I started to feel unhappy, and then 284 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:52.919 I felt guilty because I'm like, wait a minute, but 285 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:55.039 this is my purpose, Like I'm this is my calling. 286 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:59.720 I can't leave this. And it was from that thinking. 287 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:06.799 Yeah, well, it seems to shock people sometimes when I 288 00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:11.039 tell them that you can have multiple purposes in life. 289 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:15.360 I had one client she's refusing to believe that she 290 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:17.799 could be anything other than a mother to her children 291 00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:22.080 as a purpose, and it was such a mind blowing 292 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:24.200 experience for me because I felt like I had to 293 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:25.840 wrestle her to the ground to get her to do 294 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:30.759 anything with her children. She got the idea in her 295 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.720 head from online, like you said that she had to 296 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:38.879 have this crazy experience in order to feel purposeful. Yeah, 297 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:42.120 but why don't you feel good with your children? This 298 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:43.159 is very strange. 299 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:43.679 You know. 300 00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:46.879 We had to go down that road of figuring out 301 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:51.399 why that was, and it just wasn't It just was 302 00:16:51.519 --> 00:17:00.080 unpleasant to watch. I say that story because there there 303 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:03.919 is a really large degree to which many people are 304 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:09.200 struggling right now to find who they are and where 305 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:14.440 they want to be. And I also remember reading about 306 00:17:14.839 --> 00:17:21.079 I think his name is Arnold Lazarus in the psychology class, 307 00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:25.319 and he was asking people what t want. But when 308 00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:29.279 he asked that question, they would have like an existential crisis. 309 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:34.759 You know, it is difficult for people. 310 00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:37.880 Your example of the mother is is just a great 311 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:41.000 example where people get locked into all is my purpose? 312 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:44.279 But the reality is you know again as I see it, 313 00:17:44.599 --> 00:17:47.480 of course that's one of the roles she plays. Her 314 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:52.559 purpose is to bring herself fully to that role. That's 315 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:55.119 the purpose. But one day her kids will move out 316 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:58.599 of the house, and her purpose continues to roll into 317 00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:01.559 other things because it's it's her. Another way to look 318 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:05.039 at it is like, so back to the soul. The 319 00:18:05.079 --> 00:18:08.960 soul is like a seed of the oak tree. Right, 320 00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:12.400 what's the oak tree's purpose? It's just to become the 321 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:15.240 oak tree. Now as an oak tree, it's going to 322 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:17.559 do a lot of things, right, it's going to provide shade, 323 00:18:17.559 --> 00:18:19.680 it's going to provide a home for animals, it's going 324 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:24.920 to stop erosion. So it does things, but it only 325 00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:27.440 does things because of who it has become. 326 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:31.559 And the focus really needs to be on who am 327 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:33.799 I meant to be in this world? And who do. 328 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.480 I want to be right, and in terms of then 329 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.480 what we do, yeah, life, life leaves breadcrumbs for us, right, 330 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:43.599 that we can narrow that down. But honestly, what's exciting 331 00:18:43.640 --> 00:18:47.000 to me is that there's probably a thousand things that 332 00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:49.680 you can do that are purposeful and it would be 333 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:53.319 an amazing way for you to express your soul in 334 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:56.759 this world. And in fact, life's not long enough to 335 00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.279 do them all. And I think that's a beautiful thing. 336 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:02.480 That's the abundance of life. 337 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:08.640 Right, So can you sort of unpack the idea of 338 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:13.559 longing and discontent and how those things can push you forward? 339 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:21.880 I do think that I do think that longing and 340 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:26.480 discontent are part of life. And I know some people 341 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:26.920 are going to. 342 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.599 Disagree on this for sure, that you just always should 343 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:36.640 find this contented place. But for me, for me, part 344 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:40.960 of my growth, the catalyst is always discontent. The catalyst 345 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:44.440 is always this could be better. I want to improve this, 346 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:46.319 I want to do this. And so as soon as 347 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:49.799 I say something like that, I've now created a gap. 348 00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:54.359 Of course, we know from just psychology that that creates motivation. 349 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:57.359 Other people will look at that and say, oh, well, 350 00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:00.599 if you want something, then that's the root of all 351 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:04.759 sufferings when you when you have desires, and I get that, 352 00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:08.000 I think, I think when I go on vacation, I 353 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:11.559 want to have no desires. But for the rest of 354 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:13.839 life for me, I mean, I think we're born to 355 00:20:13.880 --> 00:20:17.039 walk uphill. We're born to We're born to think. I 356 00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:23.599 want to grow. And there's there's a fine balance, of course, 357 00:20:23.640 --> 00:20:27.200 to be okay with yourself, but not be okay where 358 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:30.720 you are, and if you can separate those two, like 359 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:34.880 I can be okay with myself and my worth and 360 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:38.279 my value. But am I happy where I am in 361 00:20:38.359 --> 00:20:41.440 this moment right here? Am I happy with the progress here? 362 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:41.680 No? 363 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:44.160 I want to be further ahead. I don't think that's 364 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:47.160 a bad thing at all. Where I think it's unhealthy 365 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:50.000 is when you fuse together your worth and. 366 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:51.119 Where you're at. 367 00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.079 So a lot of people say things like, hey, you're 368 00:20:55.440 --> 00:21:00.240 you're totally fine wherever you are, and I think, well, 369 00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:03.799 that's half true. You are totally fine as a person, 370 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:08.680 You're worth your value regardless of what you're doing in life, but. 371 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:12.000 You may not be fine where you are, and. 372 00:21:13.799 --> 00:21:18.119 Your soul lets you know that with those moments of hey, 373 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:20.799 there's something more for us there's something bigger for us, 374 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:26.200 and I think I think a healthy disappointment comes from 375 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:28.119 the soul to say we were meant for more. 376 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:36.359 Yeah, I agree with you. What else can I say? 377 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:41.000 Do you agree with the idea? Was it Carol Dweck? 378 00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:44.799 Did I get that name right? With the idea of 379 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:48.799 fixed mindset versus growth oriented and people are divided into categories. 380 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:50.720 You think that's true. 381 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.559 I like Carol Dweck's work, but there's but I have. 382 00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:00.000 I do have one problem with the fixed mindset growth 383 00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:03.480 mindset is that it seems like a fixed mindset in itself, 384 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.960 and that you're this or you're that. So to me, actually, 385 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:09.960 I write about this in the upcoming book, but I 386 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:13.799 talk about the ego's mindset and the soul's mindset. The 387 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:16.960 soul's mindset is about growth and expansion and doesn't care 388 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.240 what people think because it's really just trying to grow. 389 00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:22.400 Or the ego is like protect, protect, protect, But for me, 390 00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:29.240 you know, like I, if I'm honest, I am both 391 00:22:29.279 --> 00:22:32.359 of those. It depends what I'm doing. And I'll give 392 00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.000 you a quick example. I remember last year I heard 393 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:40.480 about a storytelling competition in my city that happens and 394 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:42.119 so it's like an open mic night. You go in, 395 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:43.960 you put your name in the hat, and they draw out, 396 00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:48.160 you know, ten names, and if your name gets drawn, 397 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:49.960 you go and you tell a story for five minutes 398 00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.400 and you get judged by a panel. Anyways, I'd never 399 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:55.559 seen this before, never heard about it, but I speak 400 00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:57.160 for a living and I thought, all, this would be 401 00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:00.480