Speaker 1: Boundlish Authenticity podcast.
Speaker 2: James Robbins is an international keynote speaker and leadership expert
Speaker 2: known for helping organizations create high performing cultures. He is
Speaker 2: the author of Nine Minutes on Monday and the upcoming
Speaker 2: book The Call to Climb Wiley, releasing in August twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five, a transformational fable set in the Andes that
Speaker 2: guides readers to reconnect with purpose and live more intentionally.
Speaker 2: With over twenty years of experience, James has spoken to
Speaker 2: audiences across Fortune five hundred companies and global organizations.
Speaker 1: James, how's it going going good? So glad to be here. Thanks?
Speaker 2: Yeah, awesome, Thanks for being on with me. So my
Speaker 2: first question, like I said, I don't have any questions
Speaker 2: for you, but I'm gonna wing it. What are the
Speaker 2: most significant experiences that put you on the path that
Speaker 2: you're on now?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 3: One of the most I would say, I would say
Speaker 3: they were being in college, not knowing what I wanted
Speaker 3: to do and wanting to take some time off, but
Speaker 3: everybody telling you you can't do that, and even my
Speaker 3: parents at the time, you can't do that. If you
Speaker 3: do that, we're going to stop paying for college. But
Speaker 3: still feeling inside of me like I need to get
Speaker 3: out of here, and I'd left and took some friends
Speaker 3: with me. We went down to South Pacific and spent
Speaker 3: like six months traveling around. I mean, this is like
Speaker 3: nineteen late nineteen eighties, nineteen ninety kind of time. So
Speaker 3: it was definitely a different time, but it was getting
Speaker 3: away from everything to then think clearly what I want
Speaker 3: to do with my life. And I would say that
Speaker 3: would be one significant moment. You know, I'm an older guy,
Speaker 3: so I got several others, but let's start with that one.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, you're talking late eighties. I probably wasn't even
Speaker 2: like two yet.
Speaker 4: So yeah, different world traveling then was uh, I mean
Speaker 4: you had to take there's no bank cards, right like,
Speaker 4: there was no you didn't take your card, dude, Well
Speaker 4: there was bank cards.
Speaker 1: Shouldn't say that there wasn't.
Speaker 3: But back then you went and got travelers shacks, American
Speaker 3: Express travelers shacks. It was like carrying cash with you.
Speaker 3: It's so dangerous when you think about it now. And yeah,
Speaker 3: wherever you went felt like a long ways from home
Speaker 3: because you could only write a letter or phone call.
Speaker 1: That was it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean we're talking about stuff deck the
Speaker 2: kids of this day and Angel would be like what
Speaker 2: a travelers check. But I mean, I guess no matter
Speaker 2: what generation you're from, you're likely to have had a
Speaker 2: moment where some things happened and you realize you had
Speaker 2: to find yourself? Am I correct? Containing So.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Well, I think that's the myth right that
Speaker 3: we have to find ourselves. But the reality is you
Speaker 3: don't need to find anything. You need to decide who
Speaker 3: you're going to be. And I guess finding yourself is
Speaker 3: more about getting rid of all the other voices and
Speaker 3: noises and societal expectations of your life and answering the
Speaker 3: question if I could be completely honest with no judgment
Speaker 3: and nobody cared about what I would do, what would
Speaker 3: I do? And when we can strip that out of
Speaker 3: way and then ask ourselves that question and not be
Speaker 3: afraid of the answer, just don't judge it.
Speaker 1: And then what is it? What is it that you
Speaker 1: want to do?
Speaker 2: So in your experience, what are the most common barriers
Speaker 2: you would say that people have to finding that inner voice,
Speaker 2: and you know, just asking that question, what do I
Speaker 2: want to do?
Speaker 1: People are just afraid of the answer.
Speaker 3: To be honest, they're afraid to really ask themselves that
Speaker 3: question because they I think, deep down inside, right, I
Speaker 3: believe all of us have a soul, whether you want
Speaker 3: to call it soul, psyche, inner life. We all have
Speaker 3: an inner life, a soul that knows us better than
Speaker 3: we do, and it knows the right path for us.
Speaker 3: And the thing that's, honestly, the universal thing, is we're
Speaker 3: just afraid. We're afraid to walk our own path because
Speaker 3: what does that mean in the context of my tribe.
Speaker 3: And at the end of the day, we have all
Speaker 3: been programmed by society, by parents to fit in. And
Speaker 3: there's a part of that. Of course, that's part of
Speaker 3: success in your early life when you don't have the
Speaker 3: strength of ego strength. But as you get older, right,
Speaker 3: that's where people hit those midlife crises where they start
Speaker 3: to think, wait, what am I doing with my life?
Speaker 1: Is this what I want to do with my life?
Speaker 3: And it's sort of, as doctor James calls it, a
Speaker 3: collision of selves, right, kind of the self that you've
Speaker 3: always known and then all of a sudden this other
Speaker 3: self that shows up on the scene that says, hey,
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: Think we're actually really happy here.
Speaker 3: And whether it's in our job, our career, our relationship,
Speaker 3: or you know, one of these big things in life,
Speaker 3: and people are afraid to have that conversation with their soul.
Speaker 1: Do you think this is a skill that could be
Speaker 1: taught in schools? Well, good question. I think that yes,
Speaker 1: I think it can be taught because.
Speaker 3: As people learn about themselves, right, so as the ancients
Speaker 3: were right about know thyself, but as people learn why
Speaker 3: they are the way they are, and then once they
Speaker 3: start to see, oh, this is the way, this is
Speaker 3: why I think like this, But what do I want
Speaker 3: to do with my life? Like what do I want
Speaker 3: to do? And who do I want to be? And
Speaker 3: once we answer those two questions, right, once we can
Speaker 3: set that sort of north star and create Now we
Speaker 3: have a compass. So now when that inner programming wants
Speaker 3: us to people please, wants us to not hold a
Speaker 3: boundary and you know, punishes us with that anxiety to
Speaker 3: cave or to fit in or to compromise, we can
Speaker 3: recognize that and then we can say, oh, I know
Speaker 3: what this is, but here's my compass, and so this
Speaker 3: is the decision I need to make. So yes, I
Speaker 3: think you could teach that in the later grades. But
Speaker 3: I mean peer pressure in the tribe is it's never
Speaker 3: stronger than when we're in middle school in high school.
Speaker 2: So, having said that, do you think that any other forces,
Speaker 2: you know, people claim childhood trauma is a factor. Do
Speaker 2: you think things like that really factoring or do you
Speaker 2: think people are just generally making up self justifications so
Speaker 2: that they don't have to live in a bigger experience
Speaker 2: than what they ultimately already have.
Speaker 3: Well, people who have traumas, especially when they're young, of course,
Speaker 3: those are very powerful forces that live within and it's
Speaker 3: a little bit like it's almost like it's almost like
Speaker 3: living in a haunted house at times, where that energy
Speaker 3: can rise up and take over and all of a
Speaker 3: sudden somebody lashes out and then later they're like, I.
Speaker 1: Can't believe I did that, you know, like who was that?
Speaker 3: So those energies are all inside of us, and wounds,
Speaker 3: you know, everyone has them, but some of them, you know,
Speaker 3: some went through even more trauma than others. So it's
Speaker 3: not that those things are not real. They are. And
Speaker 3: a lot of the things that happened to us when
Speaker 3: we were younger, it's not our fault, right, Like some
Speaker 3: of that early hardwiring that's not our fault, but once
Speaker 3: we learn about it, it becomes our responsibility. So you
Speaker 3: can just claim your trauma all your life and as
Speaker 3: the reason why you can't do X, Y and Z.
Speaker 3: But for every person who says that, I can find
Speaker 3: another person who has a similar trauma, but they figured out, like,
Speaker 3: I am not going to let this run my life.
Speaker 3: Because at the end of the day, that's what we're
Speaker 3: talking about, is who's in charge of your life? And
Speaker 3: if it's you, right, if you're going to take charge
Speaker 3: of your life, then okay, well what's that going to
Speaker 3: look like? And I'm going to live an intentional life
Speaker 3: because if you think about it, most of our life
Speaker 3: we just run on autopilot. And when we're on autopilot,
Speaker 3: all those programs they're the ones running the show, right,
Speaker 3: like they're driving the car at that point. But when
Speaker 3: we step forward and be like, okay, no, I might
Speaker 3: feel this, but I am doing this now, we're taking charge.
Speaker 3: But if you compare, like I was reading, how the
Speaker 3: brain can process like eleven million bits of information a
Speaker 3: second eleven million, but your conscious mind can only process
Speaker 3: about forty or fifty bits. So this is one of
Speaker 3: the ways that subconscious I don't say bullies us attimes
Speaker 3: because that would be a negative term because it's all protective, right,
Speaker 3: it's just trying to protect you. But one of the
Speaker 3: tools that the subconscious uses is selective attention, like it
Speaker 3: will show you in a sense, it almost controls what
Speaker 3: you're going to see, which is why. Also when you
Speaker 3: are trying to achieve a goal, or you want to
Speaker 3: go on a trip to Hawaii, your subconscious also now
Speaker 3: just opens up that portal and now you're starting to
Speaker 3: see everything from Hawaii right come in and just how
Speaker 3: the brain works. So it also works in a way
Speaker 3: to protect you that you don't even know that it's happening.
Speaker 1: And what you are not aware.
Speaker 3: Of rules you, right, Like what you are not aware
Speaker 3: of is your master until you know that it's mastering you,
Speaker 3: and now I can take over and live more intentionally.
Speaker 2: I think this is very true. If people would admit
Speaker 2: to themselves that they're not as smart as they think
Speaker 2: they are, and that we have a mechanism that's actually
Speaker 2: doing ninety five percent of everything for us on autopilot,
Speaker 2: then we could begin to make a change from that position.
Speaker 5: But I.
Speaker 2: Struggle myself trying to get people to understand that information
Speaker 2: and just really, you know, you're stupid. We're all stupid.
Speaker 2: If you think about how the brain looks when it's
Speaker 2: connected to all the nerve endings and stuff, you take
Speaker 2: away all the flesh and everything just kind of looks
Speaker 2: like a big jelly rolled, fraggle looking thing. And that's
Speaker 2: what we are, and it's got information in it. How
Speaker 2: do you override that? And with that comes the question
Speaker 2: what does living more intentionally mean?
Speaker 3: Living more intentionally is first getting clear about what do
Speaker 3: you want? And a lot of people can answer that question.
Speaker 1: You know, hey, what do you want? What do you mean?
Speaker 1: What do I want? What do you want?
Speaker 3: Then sometimes they'll say, well, what am I allowed to want?
Speaker 3: You know, what can I want? Well, no, what do
Speaker 3: you want?
Speaker 4: What do you want?
Speaker 1: In life? What do you want?
Speaker 3: And that's the first thing for them to begin to
Speaker 3: get clear on that and to help it. You know,
Speaker 3: you can narrow that down to you know, as a father,
Speaker 3: So for me, I have adult children, Well, what do
Speaker 3: I want? What do I want in the relationship I
Speaker 3: have with my children?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 3: What do I believe about raising adult children? Why do
Speaker 3: I believe that? Is that my belief? Or is that
Speaker 3: the did did my church tell me that? Or do
Speaker 3: my parents say?
Speaker 1: Like? What do I believe?
Speaker 3: And what do I want that relationship to be? So
Speaker 3: it starts, you know, if you want to get granular,
Speaker 3: it starts there. But the second piece to that is,
Speaker 3: well who am I going to be? Right like as
Speaker 3: a person, who am I going to be? And once
Speaker 3: you get clear on those two things right now, we
Speaker 3: can start to move in that direction. So what happens
Speaker 3: is a lot of people think, well, I want to
Speaker 3: find you know, I want to live a purposeful life. Well,
Speaker 3: of course you do, and then they go into this
Speaker 3: I get a search for my purpose. But really this
Speaker 3: is my belief. Your purpose is to bring the most
Speaker 3: authentic and honest version of you to this world.
Speaker 1: And it's it's not an easy task.
Speaker 3: Your purpose is not found in building schools in some
Speaker 3: developing country, though you might go do that. That might
Speaker 3: be one of your worthy pursuits in the course of
Speaker 3: your lifetime.
Speaker 1: But your purpose here is is to bring that full
Speaker 1: expression of you.
Speaker 3: It's like every single person has a unique song to play,
Speaker 3: and no one plays anyone else's song. And if you
Speaker 3: don't play it, the world doesn't get to hear it.
Speaker 1: Right, So do you so start by getting clear?
Speaker 2: Oh sorry to cut you off. So you're saying, start
Speaker 2: by getting clear on that.
Speaker 1: I agree?
Speaker 2: And do you think that commonly people fall into the
Speaker 2: purpose trap, thinking that they must have this overarching, divine
Speaker 2: purpose and then they get so scared that they just
Speaker 2: don't do anything at all or they don't know what
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: And you know, there's a lot of stuff online about
Speaker 3: helping you find your purpose, and I've even heard guys
Speaker 3: say like, oh, I can help you find it in
Speaker 3: two minutes, and it's used this formula and it sounds
Speaker 3: more like a marketing slogan like I helped you know,
Speaker 3: such and such people solve this problem.
Speaker 1: So to me, that's that's just missing it. That that
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that that's not great.
Speaker 3: And that's what I call a worthy pursuit, right, Like
Speaker 3: you might have a worthy pursuit at some point in
Speaker 3: your life that.
Speaker 1: Changes later on.
Speaker 3: It's a little bit like I use this example in
Speaker 3: the book that's coming out, The Call to Climb, where
Speaker 3: it's a story about a woman who was a professional speaker,
Speaker 3: motivational speaker, and you would speak all the time and
Speaker 3: she loved it. She was changing lives, and she was like,
Speaker 3: this is my purpose, this is what I was meant
Speaker 3: to do. So we'll say things like that. Well, then
Speaker 3: you know, something happened and she had to get a
Speaker 3: surgery on her throat and there was basically an accident
Speaker 3: and she lost her voice and couldn't speak anymore. So
Speaker 3: falls into this depression because while my purpose has been
Speaker 3: taken away from me, but not realizing that. No, her
Speaker 3: purpose wasn't standing on stage, that was just the vehicle
Speaker 3: she was using. Her purpose is to bring that full
Speaker 3: expression of her and so she can so so even
Speaker 3: though that's tragic what happened, she can find other vehicles
Speaker 3: to spread that message, writing or whatever it might be.
Speaker 3: And as she began to do that, right coach, then
Speaker 3: it came back to her again like, ah, this is
Speaker 3: I was like, this is what I meant to do.
Speaker 3: So it's separating sometimes your purpose from the worthy pursuit,
Speaker 3: because otherwise, if you're trying to find your purpose, like
Speaker 3: what's that job, what's that career, that's so much pressure
Speaker 3: because maybe you will go build schools in a developing country,
Speaker 3: and after two years of that, maybe you'll go you
Speaker 3: know what I'm done with this. I want to do
Speaker 3: something else. And I've worked in the not for profit
Speaker 3: space before, where I started to feel unhappy, and then
Speaker 3: I felt guilty because I'm like, wait a minute, but
Speaker 3: this is my purpose, Like I'm this is my calling.
Speaker 1: I can't leave this. And it was from that thinking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it seems to shock people sometimes when I
Speaker 2: tell them that you can have multiple purposes in life.
Speaker 2: I had one client she's refusing to believe that she
Speaker 2: could be anything other than a mother to her children
Speaker 2: as a purpose, and it was such a mind blowing
Speaker 2: experience for me because I felt like I had to
Speaker 2: wrestle her to the ground to get her to do
Speaker 2: anything with her children. She got the idea in her
Speaker 2: head from online, like you said that she had to
Speaker 2: have this crazy experience in order to feel purposeful. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but why don't you feel good with your children? This
Speaker 2: is very strange.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: We had to go down that road of figuring out
Speaker 2: why that was, and it just wasn't It just was
Speaker 2: unpleasant to watch. I say that story because there there
Speaker 2: is a really large degree to which many people are
Speaker 2: struggling right now to find who they are and where
Speaker 2: they want to be. And I also remember reading about
Speaker 2: I think his name is Arnold Lazarus in the psychology class,
Speaker 2: and he was asking people what t want. But when
Speaker 2: he asked that question, they would have like an existential crisis.
Speaker 1: You know, it is difficult for people.
Speaker 3: Your example of the mother is is just a great
Speaker 3: example where people get locked into all is my purpose?
Speaker 3: But the reality is you know again as I see it,
Speaker 3: of course that's one of the roles she plays. Her
Speaker 3: purpose is to bring herself fully to that role. That's
Speaker 3: the purpose. But one day her kids will move out
Speaker 3: of the house, and her purpose continues to roll into
Speaker 3: other things because it's it's her. Another way to look
Speaker 3: at it is like, so back to the soul. The
Speaker 3: soul is like a seed of the oak tree. Right,
Speaker 3: what's the oak tree's purpose? It's just to become the
Speaker 3: oak tree. Now as an oak tree, it's going to
Speaker 3: do a lot of things, right, it's going to provide shade,
Speaker 3: it's going to provide a home for animals, it's going
Speaker 3: to stop erosion. So it does things, but it only
Speaker 3: does things because of who it has become.
Speaker 1: And the focus really needs to be on who am
Speaker 1: I meant to be in this world? And who do.
Speaker 3: I want to be right, and in terms of then
Speaker 3: what we do, yeah, life, life leaves breadcrumbs for us, right,
Speaker 3: that we can narrow that down. But honestly, what's exciting
Speaker 3: to me is that there's probably a thousand things that
Speaker 3: you can do that are purposeful and it would be
Speaker 3: an amazing way for you to express your soul in
Speaker 3: this world. And in fact, life's not long enough to
Speaker 3: do them all. And I think that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 3: That's the abundance of life.
Speaker 2: Right, So can you sort of unpack the idea of
Speaker 2: longing and discontent and how those things can push you forward?
Speaker 2: I do think that I do think that longing and
Speaker 2: discontent are part of life. And I know some people
Speaker 2: are going to.
Speaker 3: Disagree on this for sure, that you just always should
Speaker 3: find this contented place. But for me, for me, part
Speaker 3: of my growth, the catalyst is always discontent. The catalyst
Speaker 3: is always this could be better. I want to improve this,
Speaker 3: I want to do this. And so as soon as
Speaker 3: I say something like that, I've now created a gap.
Speaker 3: Of course, we know from just psychology that that creates motivation.
Speaker 3: Other people will look at that and say, oh, well,
Speaker 3: if you want something, then that's the root of all
Speaker 3: sufferings when you when you have desires, and I get that,
Speaker 3: I think, I think when I go on vacation, I
Speaker 3: want to have no desires. But for the rest of
Speaker 3: life for me, I mean, I think we're born to
Speaker 3: walk uphill. We're born to We're born to think. I
Speaker 3: want to grow. And there's there's a fine balance, of course,
Speaker 3: to be okay with yourself, but not be okay where
Speaker 3: you are, and if you can separate those two, like
Speaker 3: I can be okay with myself and my worth and
Speaker 3: my value. But am I happy where I am in
Speaker 3: this moment right here? Am I happy with the progress here?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: I want to be further ahead. I don't think that's
Speaker 3: a bad thing at all. Where I think it's unhealthy
Speaker 3: is when you fuse together your worth and.
Speaker 1: Where you're at.
Speaker 3: So a lot of people say things like, hey, you're
Speaker 3: you're totally fine wherever you are, and I think, well,
Speaker 3: that's half true. You are totally fine as a person,
Speaker 3: You're worth your value regardless of what you're doing in life, but.
Speaker 1: You may not be fine where you are, and.
Speaker 3: Your soul lets you know that with those moments of hey,
Speaker 3: there's something more for us there's something bigger for us,
Speaker 3: and I think I think a healthy disappointment comes from
Speaker 3: the soul to say we were meant for more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you. What else can I say?
Speaker 2: Do you agree with the idea? Was it Carol Dweck?
Speaker 2: Did I get that name right? With the idea of
Speaker 2: fixed mindset versus growth oriented and people are divided into categories.
Speaker 2: You think that's true.
Speaker 1: I like Carol Dweck's work, but there's but I have.
Speaker 3: I do have one problem with the fixed mindset growth
Speaker 3: mindset is that it seems like a fixed mindset in itself,
Speaker 3: and that you're this or you're that. So to me, actually,
Speaker 3: I write about this in the upcoming book, but I
Speaker 3: talk about the ego's mindset and the soul's mindset. The
Speaker 3: soul's mindset is about growth and expansion and doesn't care
Speaker 3: what people think because it's really just trying to grow.
Speaker 3: Or the ego is like protect, protect, protect, But for me,
Speaker 3: you know, like I, if I'm honest, I am both
Speaker 3: of those. It depends what I'm doing. And I'll give
Speaker 3: you a quick example. I remember last year I heard
Speaker 3: about a storytelling competition in my city that happens and
Speaker 3: so it's like an open mic night. You go in,
Speaker 3: you put your name in the hat, and they draw out,
Speaker 3: you know, ten names, and if your name gets drawn,
Speaker 3: you go and you tell a story for five minutes
Speaker 3: and you get judged by a panel. Anyways, I'd never
Speaker 3: seen this before, never heard about it, but I speak
Speaker 3: for a living and I thought, all, this would be
Speaker 3: a good challenge, right, like I should go in that.
Speaker 3: That's that growth mindset or that soul mindset. But there
Speaker 3: was another part of me that's like, well, I mean,
Speaker 3: like don't enter your first night, like go and kind
Speaker 3: of see how it is and just watch first. Right,
Speaker 3: that's the ego, that's the protective part, like don't fail.
Speaker 3: It's basically what it's saying, don't fail. And I ended
Speaker 3: up going and saying, no, I'm just going to do
Speaker 3: it right growth mindset. So and what happens is I
Speaker 3: went and I put my name in the hat and
Speaker 3: I literally get picked first.
Speaker 1: And I had no idea what to expect.
Speaker 3: So I just went up told my story and in
Speaker 3: the end and the end of the night, I ended
Speaker 3: up getting sixth place. I was like wiped out in
Speaker 3: a local storytelling competition and I was the most experienced
Speaker 3: figer there for sure, so embarrassing if we're going to
Speaker 3: go with the ego, but the soul would have a
Speaker 3: very different mindset of that. The soul would be like, man,
Speaker 3: that was awesome, Like you didn't even know what you're
Speaker 3: getting into, Like it's so amazing that you trusted yourself
Speaker 3: enough to be bold and just do that. That's fantastic,
Speaker 3: whereas the other side of me was like, man, like,
Speaker 3: that's embarrassing. All of that to say, I think people
Speaker 3: have to choose to go into that growth mindset that
Speaker 3: I don't know that that's it's certainly not natural for me,
Speaker 3: but it doesn't mean I can't be there to be intentional.
Speaker 3: So back to your question about Carol Dweck's work. The
Speaker 3: thing I know, there's two things I don't like about it.
Speaker 3: One is that it sort of sets itself up as
Speaker 3: almost a fixed mindset, and the other one is a
Speaker 3: lot of her research. And you correct me if I'm
Speaker 3: wrong anyone who's listening, But a lot of her research
Speaker 3: was done on adolescents, and that's a different time of
Speaker 3: life than when you're in your forties and fifties, and
Speaker 3: so I think obviously it's still a powerful work and
Speaker 3: it serves me right, I've benefited from her research.
Speaker 1: But those would be the two things I don't like.
Speaker 2: Right. Well, I laughed when you said that, because I
Speaker 2: agree with what you're saying. It just I have the
Speaker 2: same grievances with it. But you know, I think two,
Speaker 2: when you're reading these self development books, you really have
Speaker 2: to take stuff with a pinch of salt and try
Speaker 2: to fact check some of the things that are being said.
Speaker 2: Otherwise you don't always read the right benefits from it.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you agree with that or not,
Speaker 2: but I amn't really honestly found too many of the
Speaker 2: popular books in that genre to be effective for much.
Speaker 2: It gave me a lot of brain candy. I had
Speaker 2: a great time reading it. I felt like I was
Speaker 2: learning something, but you know, didn't do much for me
Speaker 2: in the way of actually how do I grow?
Speaker 3: You know, I have a similar experience to that, you know,
Speaker 3: picking up a book reading it like, ah, that's what
Speaker 3: that's the reason I'm not further along. I'm not doing
Speaker 3: this or all affirmations but stated in question form, Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: that's the that's the secret. So we're always I think
Speaker 3: people generally are just looking for the secret, like what's
Speaker 3: the secret, what's the way? Because life's not easy. And
Speaker 3: one challenge in the world of self help.
Speaker 1: Is that you know a.
Speaker 3: Lot of people who will write self help books, they
Speaker 3: are writing about, of course, their experience and you know,
Speaker 3: hey that this helped them.
Speaker 1: And so what some people can.
Speaker 3: Do is they can they can erroneously assign causality, like, oh,
Speaker 3: the reason I'm successful is because I started doing these
Speaker 3: affirmations and maybe that is or maybe it wasn't, you know,
Speaker 3: So to your point for people to be a little
Speaker 3: bit more critical as they read stuff and like get
Speaker 3: I get the spiritual side, of course, but I'm also
Speaker 3: like half my father who was very pragmatic in science,
Speaker 3: and so you know, someone wants to talk to me
Speaker 3: about manifestation. Okay, my mother's half of me is all in,
Speaker 3: but my father's half is like, well, wait a minute,
Speaker 3: like let's what do you mean, Like how does that work?
Speaker 1: Like you got to explain that better, can't just tell
Speaker 1: me that.
Speaker 3: So I think it is good to have a critical
Speaker 3: mind to on some of these aspects. And the other
Speaker 3: thing is just because it worked for someone doesn't mean
Speaker 3: it's going to work for you. And I've seen people
Speaker 3: who are like, hey, don't grind, like just just surrender
Speaker 3: and watch things come to you.
Speaker 1: And then this is what I did, and they came
Speaker 1: to me. And then I'll hear another guy that's like.
Speaker 3: Hey, get off your rear, get off the couch and
Speaker 3: quit cry and grind and work fourteen hours and that
Speaker 3: worked for them. So there's just a whole lot of
Speaker 3: things that work. What I do think the self help
Speaker 3: industry is not honest about is.
Speaker 1: I think changing your life.
Speaker 3: Is infinitely more difficult than anyone wants to admit, at
Speaker 3: least in the self help world. And I think when
Speaker 3: you venture into working on yourself, especially as you start
Speaker 3: to uncover these programs, and you know, let's say you
Speaker 3: struggle with people pleasing okay, Well, that's just a habit,
Speaker 3: that's just a coping mechanism you acquired along the way,
Speaker 3: and you know that's probably going to be with you
Speaker 3: your entire life. And not saying that you won't change it,
Speaker 3: that you won't get better at it, what I'm saying
Speaker 3: is that the sensitivity and so this is where it
Speaker 3: comes into living intentional life. So the more intentional I
Speaker 3: am to not let my people pleasing dictate my path,
Speaker 3: the stronger I'll be. But that people pleasing nature, at
Speaker 3: least in my life, is always at is always outside
Speaker 3: the door. It just doesn't knock as loud anymore, but
Speaker 3: it's still outside the door. And that might sound like
Speaker 3: really discouraging, but I think I think that's more accurate.
Speaker 1: I've heard some people say, oh, like, you know, come
Speaker 1: do this.
Speaker 3: A subconscious you know, hypnosis technique, and then people change
Speaker 3: and they never struggle again. I hope that's true. It's
Speaker 3: never been true for me. I've never just magically been
Speaker 3: free from some of my limiting beliefs. Always had to
Speaker 3: be vigilant, right.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I'm a hymnotherapist, so I can tell
Speaker 2: you for sure it's not magic. It does that happened
Speaker 2: like that. I think that's a really bad misconception that's
Speaker 2: pushed on the Internet, and a lot of people just
Speaker 2: want to sound like they have magical powers to try
Speaker 2: to sell you stuff. But you actually have to do
Speaker 2: a lot of work inside of that that that framework
Speaker 2: in order to reach the belief in the first place,
Speaker 2: let alone to get a person to change their relationship
Speaker 2: to that belief, because it's about changing your relationship to it.
Speaker 2: It's not that it just magically goes away. So yeah,
Speaker 2: for sure, it's a struggle and I have to be
Speaker 2: honest about that for people that maybe they are thinking
Speaker 2: about doing some kind of course, I don't know with
Speaker 2: you or you know, myself or anybody else. You ask questions,
Speaker 2: find out exactly what the process is like, because anybody
Speaker 2: that's earnest is going to say exactly what you've said.
Speaker 2: You know, changing your life is hard work. And I
Speaker 2: always go back to the wisdom of my grandfather. I
Speaker 2: was fortunate to have him in my life up until
Speaker 2: I was seventeen years old. And you're talking about a
Speaker 2: guy that was born in the early nineteen hundreds, so
Speaker 2: he didn't have anything. His first job was selling newspapers
Speaker 2: at like ten years old or something like that, you know.
Speaker 2: And I remember I asked him one time when I
Speaker 2: was about thirteen, how he got so good at everything
Speaker 2: that he did, and he was, I just did it,
Speaker 2: and you know, he was like one of my favorite
Speaker 2: songs is Frank Sinatra. I did it my way. And
Speaker 2: he just never listened to anything that anybody told him.
Speaker 2: He never listened when anybody told him how to do anything.
Speaker 2: He just did it his own way, and he wasn't
Speaker 2: afraid to make mistakes. And you know, just to give
Speaker 2: you some context, I still live in my family's home.
Speaker 2: It's actually two houses that are right next to each
Speaker 2: other on the beach in Barbados, you know, a place
Speaker 2: that has statistically been plagued by poverty, essentially third world
Speaker 2: stuff for its entire existence. It wasn't easy for a
Speaker 2: black man to elevate himself in status in the early
Speaker 2: nineteen hundreds and onward. You know what I'm saying. He
Speaker 2: did it through art work. So I think that's the
Speaker 2: only secret. You have to be willing to work hard.
Speaker 3: You know, this is a great point you bring up
Speaker 3: about your grandfather, And thanks for sharing that, because it
Speaker 3: makes me think about now. We are saturated and inundated
Speaker 3: not only with information but with marketers, and part of
Speaker 3: marketers strategy is basically to incite more pain to tell
Speaker 3: you no, that's not the way to do it. Here's
Speaker 3: why that's hard, because it's not the best way. You
Speaker 3: got to do it this way. So when I think
Speaker 3: about some of my earlier years in business, you're always
Speaker 3: trying these different things. I got to build an email list.
Speaker 3: Then someone comes along, I don't build an email list
Speaker 3: like emails.
Speaker 1: Dad, you got to do this? Oh yeah, I got
Speaker 1: to do this.
Speaker 3: And so what I find is that there's all there's
Speaker 3: even more reasons to doubt yourself today. Like think about
Speaker 3: to our grandparents' day. You know, they had to go
Speaker 3: sell something. Okay, maybe there was a book, or maybe
Speaker 3: it was just some mentoring them telling them that how
Speaker 3: they did it, but you had to.
Speaker 1: Figure it out.
Speaker 3: And again I'm all for learning and coaching and mentoring
Speaker 3: and speeding up the process. But at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, you know, as you know that well, even
Speaker 3: from a learning perspective, like seventy percent of the learning
Speaker 3: journey happens while we're doing it. There's the experience so
Speaker 3: that you can process the the different instructions we've been
Speaker 3: given and then we try them. Okay, that worked, or
Speaker 3: that didn't quite work, or maybe I got to say
Speaker 3: this differently. And this goes, you know, back to the
Speaker 3: concept in the book to call the climb, which is really, yeah,
Speaker 3: at some point you got to climb, like you got
Speaker 3: to get on the mountain, because it's in the struggle, right,
Speaker 3: it's in the struggle. It's in the headwind that that
Speaker 3: really shapes us, you know, and hopefully for the better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. When I first started this over a
Speaker 2: decade ago, I was doing training with Mary Morrissey. I'm
Speaker 2: sure you're familiar with her work. No, No, she's like
Speaker 2: one of the old school people. You had, Mary Morrissey.
Speaker 2: It's that guy that died Wayne Dyer. There's another guy
Speaker 2: that was Jack Bolandet older like transferm national coaching and
Speaker 2: leadership type stuff, you know, the same narrative. And she
Speaker 2: used to say all the time, baby steps will take
Speaker 2: you right up the site of Mount Everest. And I
Speaker 2: was like, well, that seems like a ridiculous claim, but
Speaker 2: in a way it makes sense, you know, because you're
Speaker 2: not really going to, like you said, get there unless
Speaker 2: you claim right.
Speaker 1: You have to.
Speaker 2: You don't have a choice. But with that, talk to
Speaker 2: me a little bit more about the inspiration to write
Speaker 2: your book.
Speaker 1: The version to write the book.
Speaker 3: So what happened was somewhere in my mid thirties when
Speaker 3: I was not feeling happy and excited about what I
Speaker 3: was doing. So actually I was working for a church
Speaker 3: in Christian ministry, which was not something I ever thought
Speaker 3: I would do, but you know, life's funny and throws
Speaker 3: a curveball at you. So when I came out of college,
Speaker 3: I started doing that and I enjoyed the work. Initially.
Speaker 3: I love working with people, helping people. And over time
Speaker 3: though it wasn't necessarily the ministry, it was the organization
Speaker 3: I was working for began to change how they did stuff,
Speaker 3: and it just started to like not feel good, didn't
Speaker 3: feel authentic what we were doing. I started to feel
Speaker 3: like I was in a sales organization. And it was
Speaker 3: during that time that I started to feel really depressed,
Speaker 3: and I then, of course felt really guilty that I
Speaker 3: would be depressed. It was just all this stuff I
Speaker 3: didn't know how to process, and it sort of just
Speaker 3: went through this time of burnout and got really sick,
Speaker 3: and even the doctor said, hey, there's nothing wrong with you,
Speaker 3: maybe you just have depression, and you know, for me,
Speaker 3: I was like, no, I couldn't, that's impossible. But that
Speaker 3: was I think the initial summons of the soul to
Speaker 3: sit down and get honest, but I didn't.
Speaker 1: I just ignored it. I ignored that appointment.
Speaker 3: It just kept moving on, and it wasn't until so
Speaker 3: during that time though, I was introduced to the work
Speaker 3: of James. So have you ever read anything by doctor
Speaker 3: James Hollis. He's a Youngian psychoanalyst. Have you ever read
Speaker 3: any of his stuff?
Speaker 1: I don't think I've read it.
Speaker 3: No, I would encourage you to pick it up because
Speaker 3: he is amazing.
Speaker 1: He writes the stuff that's really deep.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Of course he's ungi and so it's he talks about
Speaker 3: the soul. But he he was the one that had
Speaker 3: the concept about the soul summons you for an appointment
Speaker 3: at some point, and most people avoid the appointment.
Speaker 1: So that stuck with me, and.
Speaker 3: Maybe about ten years ago I had this idea, you know,
Speaker 3: wouldn't it be interesting to write a book about someone
Speaker 3: who was summoned to have a conversation with their soul?
Speaker 1: And but it takes place on a mountain.
Speaker 3: So that's where the that's where the genesis of the
Speaker 3: book came, the idea. It really came out of my
Speaker 3: own story and ignoring the ignoring in a sense, the
Speaker 3: call to climb right, ignoring the sit down with my
Speaker 3: soul to go, hey, what do you what do you
Speaker 3: actually want?
Speaker 1: And who do you want to be?
Speaker 3: And I didn't have those conversations, I put them off
Speaker 3: at least a decade, right.
Speaker 2: Okay, So I mean, what is what is it that
Speaker 2: you are really trying to deeply express by putting this
Speaker 2: book out there for people.
Speaker 3: I want people to realize that often the life they're
Speaker 3: living is not the one that I'll say this, that
Speaker 3: often the life they're living, it's not really their life.
Speaker 1: They're living a collection of a lot of other things.
Speaker 3: And if you really want to, if we want to
Speaker 3: use the word individuate, if you really want to, if
Speaker 3: you really want to live an authentic life, then it's
Speaker 3: going to take some work.
Speaker 1: It's going to take some separation from the tribe. It's
Speaker 1: going to take.
Speaker 3: Really you figuring out, hey, what do I want and
Speaker 3: then having the courage to bring your full self to
Speaker 3: the world. And I would say I'm still working on that.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Even this book is so different than my last book
Speaker 3: is very corporate leadership. You know, it's it's it's done well,
Speaker 3: but it's very like, here's how to be a better leader.
Speaker 1: This book all of a sudden comes in.
Speaker 3: We actually had to redesign our website, which we're still
Speaker 3: doing because we're like, well, how do how do these
Speaker 3: two messages fit. They're so different and there's but this,
Speaker 3: this latest book is is a more honest version of
Speaker 3: what I would produce than the first one. Not that
Speaker 3: the first one's wrong or bad, it's just okay, it's
Speaker 3: for work. But even that it's been okay, Well, do
Speaker 3: you know, do I go and make a YouTube video
Speaker 3: and LinkedIn video about this? Like how is that going
Speaker 3: to be perceived?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: I will still have those questions, which is, let's just
Speaker 3: boil down, like, well, actually, who cares? Who cares how
Speaker 3: that's perceived? Is this what you want to say? Is
Speaker 3: this message you want to get out? Well, yes it is, okay,
Speaker 3: then get it out right. So again, easier said than done.
Speaker 3: But so to me, that's the beauty of life. It's
Speaker 3: this lifelong journey. But you know, back to doctor Hollis
Speaker 3: who has a great quote, when the path is right,
Speaker 3: the energy is there, and you need that energy right
Speaker 3: if you're going to take on this work in whatever
Speaker 3: you're doing.
Speaker 5: M hm.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So on the flip side of that, let's assume somebody
Speaker 2: who has achieved most, if not all, of everything that
Speaker 2: they want and they pick up your book. What would
Speaker 2: they take away from it?
Speaker 1: If they had achieved almost everything they want. That's a
Speaker 1: great question. I would think if they picked up the book, then.
Speaker 3: They would probably be able to look and go, oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: that's what I did, that was my path.
Speaker 1: I had those moments.
Speaker 3: I think there's there's also value in validating someone's someone's
Speaker 3: path and someone's experience. But I that would be my
Speaker 3: best answer for you.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not here to say like, no, everyone's
Speaker 1: got to do it this way or my way. Of
Speaker 1: course not.
Speaker 3: Man, if you've made it through life and you can
Speaker 3: just think, well, I did everything I did and oh, fantastic,
Speaker 3: good for you.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, and what's next? Right, what's the next mountain
Speaker 1: you're gonna climb?
Speaker 3: Like, I don't want to go, and I don't want to.
Speaker 3: I don't want to say I don't want to retire.
Speaker 3: I don't want to be the person that says that.
Speaker 3: But do I want to just do nothing?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 3: I think I would always no, I wouldn't want to
Speaker 3: just do nothing. I would always have to be doing something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just as a selling point. One more question, what
Speaker 2: is your favorite chapter if you have one.
Speaker 3: I have a couple of favorite chapters, and honestly, writing
Speaker 3: the book was it was an emotional experience for me.
Speaker 3: There were more than a few times I'm in this
Speaker 3: cafe and I'm writing, this surge of emotion would come
Speaker 3: up and I'm like whiteing tears from my eyes while
Speaker 3: I'm writing this book.
Speaker 1: So I think one of them, though, is there's a
Speaker 1: scene where.
Speaker 3: The main character, Riley gets you know, Riley's been called
Speaker 3: to climb this mountain. Obviously there's some mysticism to it,
Speaker 3: because mountains done typically I actually call you to climb,
Speaker 3: so but there's this mystical place. So anyways, they get
Speaker 3: up high on the mountain and Riley starts to be
Speaker 3: excited about climbing further, and then this big snowstorm hits
Speaker 3: and it just doesn't let up, and it's it's a
Speaker 3: chapter talking about energy and carrying stuff that you don't
Speaker 3: need to be carrying. And so what happens is Riley
Speaker 3: is carrying grudges, resentments people that they've not forgiven, and
Speaker 3: the mountain is not letting them climb further until they
Speaker 3: let everything go and really to give them selves that
Speaker 3: gift of forgiving. And so there's a to me, I
Speaker 3: think there's a powerful scene there where Riley wrestles. Wrestles
Speaker 3: fights with like why would I forgive this guy, you know,
Speaker 3: after what he did, and eventually gets to the point
Speaker 3: where they realize, oh, this is I'm only hurting myself
Speaker 3: and I've I've got a gift myself by letting this
Speaker 3: go and moving on with my life. And then you know,
Speaker 3: so that's that's that's a favorite story for me, and uh, yeah,
Speaker 3: I think I'll go with that.
Speaker 2: Fantastic James, it was good to meet you. Thanks for
Speaker 2: being on the Boneless Authenticity Podcast. Can you tell everyone
Speaker 2: where they can find you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, you can. My main website is James
Speaker 3: Robbins dot com. That's two b's. But if you want
Speaker 3: to hear more about the book, go to its website,
Speaker 3: which is I Will Climb dot com.
Speaker 1: I Will Climb dot com. It comes out August.
Speaker 3: Fifth, but if you pre order it you get some
Speaker 3: cool bone So yeah, go to I Will Climb dot com.
Speaker 1: And hey, come find me on LinkedIn. Love to Connect.
Speaker 1: Tell me that you heard this on Jahan's show. Great conversation, James,
Speaker 1: thanks again, Thanks man.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Boundless Authenticity podcast, where we discuss
Speaker 2: everything related to the evolution of human consciousness.
Speaker 1: At the very.
Speaker 3: Leasty, you need to understand that the United States builds bunkers,
Speaker 3: which are basical cities on your ground every three months.
Speaker 1: Basically into your self conscious is your love and insolution,
Speaker 1: your creativity.
Speaker 5: And imagination, unshamed from conscious saison and little bit you're.
Speaker 1: All under your life for the soul. If I have
Speaker 1: a consciousness section, algy cultures of your right.
Speaker 5: We live in a multi dimensional reality, whether it comes
Speaker 5: through editary information in the spiritual realms or the UFO
Speaker 5: people experiences, or mainstreams and positive physics, and through natrem
Speaker 5: science and now realizing that parallel dimensions probably exists, we're all.
Speaker 1: Spiritual means we're all having these human experiences. We've heard
Speaker 1: that phrase over and over and over, but what does
Speaker 1: that really mean?
Speaker 5: And all of the questions of why do we have
Speaker 5: these answers inside of ourselves. We're ultimately studying the nature
Speaker 5: of what it is to be human, good and evil,
Speaker 5: our psychology, how we're fitting our health. That's why I
Speaker 5: love Bruce Lee's great quote all knowledge is ultimately self knowledge.