1 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:03,759 --> 00:00:06,639 Speaker 2: I'm Kyle Foffy from Cedar Park, Texas, and I golf 3 00:00:06,639 --> 00:00:07,960 at Twin Creeks Country Club. 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:09,599 Speaker 3: Welcome to Golf Smarter. Hi. 5 00:00:09,759 --> 00:00:12,599 Speaker 1: This is Phil Calvert from Coming, Georgia. I play It 6 00:00:12,679 --> 00:00:16,480 Bears Best in Siwani. This is Golf Smart number oneenty 7 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:17,199 twenty one. 8 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 2: The issue that we need to deal with is we've 9 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,320 got to eradicate golf intimidation. It's okay to duffer shop, 10 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,920 it's okay to not strip at two hundred and fifty 11 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,519 yard drive. We don't really care if the golf balls 12 00:00:29,559 --> 00:00:31,960 are jacked or not jack. It's not going to make 13 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,759 any difference to my game. I don't know if I 14 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:37,759 need a new driver every year to pick up the 15 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:40,640 extra ten yards for the golf that I want to play. 16 00:00:40,759 --> 00:00:43,840 Because golf is happening everywhere. It's happened at the office, 17 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:47,200 it's happening outside, it's happening with your kids, it's happening 18 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:48,200 with your grandparents. 19 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 3: Everybody is playing golf. 20 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:53,759 Speaker 2: And even what's more interesting, couples golf tournaments, formerly known 21 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:56,600 as a divorce open, are now the rage. 22 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,759 Speaker 3: More people want to play with their spouse. 23 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 2: That was always a top It's an event because of 24 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:02,119 some of the tension. 25 00:01:02,359 --> 00:01:04,439 Speaker 3: Now people love it. They want to play nine and 26 00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:05,359 wine and dying. 27 00:01:05,599 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 2: And that's where we're at with golf as we understand 28 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,439 that you don't play golf to get away from your family. 29 00:01:11,519 --> 00:01:13,359 Speaker 3: You can play golf to be with your family. 30 00:01:18,599 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: Not about golf, the life changing joy of playing the game. 31 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:28,799 With the author Mike Berlin, this is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, 32 00:01:28,879 --> 00:01:32,079 tips and insights from great golf minds to help you 33 00:01:32,159 --> 00:01:36,400 lower your score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, 34 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,879 Fred Green. Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast. 35 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 3: Mike, Hey, Freg welcome back. 36 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: Thank you, Yeah, thank you. So he's referring to the 37 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,560 fact that I've been traveling a lot, but I'm here 38 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,000 now and getting to have more conversations for the podcast, 39 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,159 which I love doing. And this one just based on 40 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,560 our few minutes of introduction to one another. This is 41 00:01:58,599 --> 00:01:59,400 going to be lively. 42 00:02:00,359 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: We have a lot of sep We've had a common journey, 43 00:02:03,079 --> 00:02:04,719 so I'm glad to go through it with you. 44 00:02:05,599 --> 00:02:07,319 Speaker 1: Explain the common journey part. 45 00:02:07,599 --> 00:02:09,439 Speaker 2: I think we both came in the golf a little 46 00:02:09,439 --> 00:02:12,280 bit later. I didn't grow up with golf. It came 47 00:02:12,319 --> 00:02:14,560 to me when I was in my twenties, and it 48 00:02:14,599 --> 00:02:16,919 really surprised me because I didn't think golf. 49 00:02:16,759 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 3: Was for me. 50 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,039 Speaker 1: And what was the moment that you went, oh, this 51 00:02:21,199 --> 00:02:21,599 is for me. 52 00:02:22,759 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: I was on a mandatory vacation doing my first job. 53 00:02:27,479 --> 00:02:31,879 I had gotten some irritable ball syndrome and my boss said, hey, 54 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,240 you need to take a vacation. And I went down 55 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:37,639 to Santabal Island in Florida with my mother and my stepfather. 56 00:02:37,759 --> 00:02:41,120 My stepfather was an adamant golfer. My father had never 57 00:02:41,199 --> 00:02:43,400 golfed in his whole life. And he said, well, let's 58 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,120 go to the driving range. And I thought this is 59 00:02:46,199 --> 00:02:47,680 going to be kind of boring. I don't want to 60 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:51,000 watch him hit golf balls, but he said, come anyway. 61 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,639 And then after he hit a few balls, he said, 62 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,639 why don't you try it? And he had this driver 63 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,520 called the Big Whale. And do you remember the big Wheel? 64 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,039 It was by Wilson Whale. La, I have it now 65 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,759 because I bogged on eBay And if the big wheel 66 00:03:08,879 --> 00:03:10,800 is not big at all compared to the big berth 67 00:03:10,879 --> 00:03:12,280 end some of these other ones that are out there. 68 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,599 But he said, why don't you hit it? And I 69 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,240 got up. I cheat the ball up and I hit 70 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,039 it and in my mind that ball went three hundred 71 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:21,560 yards straight in the. 72 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:22,879 Speaker 3: Air and I was harked. 73 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:26,039 Speaker 2: Looking back, it probably went one hundred and twenty yards 74 00:03:26,039 --> 00:03:28,520 and sliced, but in my mind it was the biggest 75 00:03:28,599 --> 00:03:29,599 driverver right down. 76 00:03:29,719 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: And I was hooked on golf. 77 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:34,039 Speaker 2: And the rest of the trip I took lessons, I 78 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,280 started to play, and I was hooked on golf. 79 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,919 Speaker 3: And this was nineteen this was nineteen ninety. 80 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: Okay, perfect. And that's what it'll do to you. I mean, 81 00:03:43,039 --> 00:03:45,560 it just takes if you're not a golfer or you're 82 00:03:45,599 --> 00:03:48,240 new to golf, you know, and if you've been playing 83 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:53,199 most of your life, you know, it takes one swing 84 00:03:53,639 --> 00:03:55,919 with contact and you see the ball in the air 85 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,759 and it's like, oh, this is awesome. 86 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, the dope rushes to your head and then it's 87 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,840 you know, I as a as a researcher, I've looked 88 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,080 into it. There's a dopamine rush that comes when you 89 00:04:08,159 --> 00:04:10,360 hit the ball in the air. There's a dopamine rush 90 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,439 when you sink a pot. And it doesn't matter if 91 00:04:12,479 --> 00:04:15,240 it's a twelve footer or a one footer. That little 92 00:04:15,319 --> 00:04:19,560 noise when it goes down is dopamine rush, and you 93 00:04:19,639 --> 00:04:22,519 live for it. That's why I tell people, if you're 94 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,759 having trouble golfing, go putt for twenty minutes. Just go 95 00:04:26,879 --> 00:04:30,319 feel success or the ball going into the cup, and 96 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,879 then go back to the range or go play golf 97 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,759 and it will change your mind. 98 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 3: Your chemistry is different. You've had success. 99 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: Sometimes hitting seven irons for an hour can be a 100 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,279 very frustrating experience. 101 00:04:43,439 --> 00:04:47,319 Speaker 1: Absolutely. I frequently get people going, hey, I'm I'm you know, 102 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,079 I'm trying to come back into golf now that my 103 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:51,839 kids are getting a little bit older, I've had to 104 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,519 take a break from it. How do I get my 105 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,800 kid into golf? And I'll say, take them to the 106 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,319 putting green, give them, give them three foot putts that 107 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:02,800 they can figure out that they can do. Hitting a 108 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,720 golf ball's hard. Putting is easy, and if they get 109 00:05:05,759 --> 00:05:08,639 good at putting, the game's going to be easy for them. 110 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 2: Hey, Fred, I've worked on my putting and taking five 111 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,439 strokes off all on eliminating three putts yep. And so 112 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:17,800 I mean for all of us, whether we're kids or 113 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:22,000 whether we're adults, getting your being a confident putter can 114 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:24,319 just make the day so much better. 115 00:05:24,959 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: Well, let me blow your mind for a minute and 116 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,959 see if you're familiar with this. A couple episodes ago 117 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:36,360 we had Eric Alpenfels, who is the head golf instructor 118 00:05:36,439 --> 00:05:41,759 at Pinehurst, has been for decades, and well, he wrote 119 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,959 a book called Instinct Putting, and his whole point is 120 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,680 looking at the hole, not at the ball when you're. 121 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,279 Speaker 2: Putting nice, which you can easily do, right, it's not 122 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:55,560 hard once you get used to it. 123 00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:00,439 Speaker 1: Well, it's a commitment and I love that. Right, you've 124 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,600 got to trust it exactly. But think about this. You 125 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:04,600 ever play corn hole? 126 00:06:05,199 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, sure? 127 00:06:06,439 --> 00:06:07,439 Speaker 1: What do you looking at? 128 00:06:07,639 --> 00:06:08,639 Speaker 3: You look at the hole? Man? 129 00:06:09,079 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: Exactly? You ever shoot a basket? 130 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 3: Yeah? 131 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, right? You ever shoot a basket? 132 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 3: Look at hoot? 133 00:06:14,199 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: Right? You ever hit a baseball? 134 00:06:16,079 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. 135 00:06:16,879 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: You're looking at the ball. You don't look at And 136 00:06:19,639 --> 00:06:23,079 so what happens when you're putting with instinct, With most putting, 137 00:06:23,399 --> 00:06:24,879 you look at the hole, you look at the ball, 138 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:26,399 You look at the hole, you look at the ball. 139 00:06:26,439 --> 00:06:28,079 You stay at the ball. You stay at the ball, 140 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,600 You stay at the ball, and you forget where the 141 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,160 hole is. But you take a putt right and you 142 00:06:33,199 --> 00:06:35,600 come up short and you're like, how did that happen? Well, 143 00:06:36,319 --> 00:06:39,040 you you're not connected to it. But when you look, 144 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,839 even on short puts especially, but I've been using on 145 00:06:41,879 --> 00:06:44,839 short and long putts and having great success with my 146 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:50,160 distance control and holding out long putts, including holding out 147 00:06:50,199 --> 00:06:51,560 ten footers regularly. 148 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 3: Wow. 149 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:56,279 Speaker 1: By looking at a very specific spot where I wanted 150 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:00,360 to go, you know, and and it works so well. 151 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,639 When I played Riviera. We were talking about I played 152 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:09,160 Riviera first the first hole, guy, I've got like a 153 00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:12,639 thirty foot putt, and the caddies like, hit it right here, 154 00:07:13,279 --> 00:07:15,399 and I was looking at that spot the whole time 155 00:07:15,839 --> 00:07:17,839 and it went in. We don't won't. 156 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,279 Speaker 2: But when we played courses that we haven't played before 157 00:07:21,519 --> 00:07:23,480 and we don't quite know the contours and we don't 158 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,319 know the speed, you got to trust the spot because 159 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,240 you know. And so if that gives you that confidence. 160 00:07:29,439 --> 00:07:31,800 If I don't do my putting routine, which I do 161 00:07:31,839 --> 00:07:34,480 in a point, but if I don't do the putting routine, 162 00:07:34,639 --> 00:07:36,759 I miss every time and I don't even know why 163 00:07:37,439 --> 00:07:39,439 I do. But I've got to go through the routine 164 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,079 to know the distance, to know the spot, and then 165 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,439 the commitment comes, and without the commitment, I'm just I'm 166 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:46,240 just hacking it. 167 00:07:46,279 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 3: I'm I'm not I'm not in it. I'm not committed 168 00:07:48,959 --> 00:07:49,839 right right. 169 00:07:49,879 --> 00:07:51,639 Speaker 1: And that's the thing I mean, We've talked to so 170 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,920 many instructors on the show. It's all about your preshot routine, consistency, right, 171 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,800 doing it over and over, and just being comfortable with it, 172 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,439 and including being comfortable with the dog barking because she 173 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:08,079 wants to come in. Okay, good, she's driving me nuts, 174 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:09,120 all right anyways. 175 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,399 Speaker 2: But when you play with a partner, if you're a 176 00:08:13,439 --> 00:08:16,639 good part of somehow your partner calms down, you know, 177 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,639 like somebody somebody you're with. I noticed that spending time 178 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,439 on the green can really annoy the other golfers in 179 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:27,160 the foursome, can annoy your partner like they want to 180 00:08:27,199 --> 00:08:29,959 play kind of quickly, and a slow, slow golf on 181 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,840 the green is actually emerging as one of the biggest 182 00:08:33,879 --> 00:08:36,519 hang ups that golfers are having. Like you've got to 183 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,519 be sort of quick and methodical, but don't be slow. 184 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,840 It's just as bad as being slow in the fairway now, right, 185 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,159 I maybe think they should put a shock clock on 186 00:08:45,279 --> 00:08:45,879 a pup. 187 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: Talk you never watch TGL. 188 00:08:49,799 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 3: Finally they have it. 189 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,159 Speaker 1: I love the shot clock. 190 00:08:53,639 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 3: You're making bitter decisions. I don't think so, No, just 191 00:08:56,799 --> 00:08:57,159 do it. 192 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: And I know I'm very deliberate about my preshot routine 193 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,919 on the green and in my shot and I have 194 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,840 a feeling that there's people that are like, come on, Fred, 195 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:09,919 just if you make it, if you ever watch it 196 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,200 on TV, and they take a whole lot more time 197 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:13,600 than I do. Relax. 198 00:09:14,159 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 2: As long as you're three party, nobody cares. Yeah, right, exactly, 199 00:09:17,879 --> 00:09:19,320 it's a three part that takes a long. 200 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: Time, right, especially when you go through that routine again. 201 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 3: Exactly. 202 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,039 Speaker 1: You know we're here because you wrote a book. It's 203 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:33,919 called not about Golf, right. 204 00:09:34,039 --> 00:09:36,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the biggest mistrack. Not about golf. 205 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,919 Speaker 2: All about golf, but it's not the golf that most 206 00:09:40,919 --> 00:09:43,559 people think about. Most people think about golf as the 207 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,200 tips and tricks, how to get a lower score, how 208 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,279 to improve your game, how to get some distance. I 209 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,840 don't think that that really matters for the golf I play. 210 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,240 For the golf I played. How to have a more 211 00:09:55,879 --> 00:09:59,679 fun time with your friends, how to find more fulfillment 212 00:09:59,759 --> 00:10:02,840 on the golf course, how to build a better network. 213 00:10:03,159 --> 00:10:06,919 And there's you can't take a lesson on that you 214 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,600 talked about your son learning etiquette on the golf course. 215 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,840 What a magical lesson for him to learn early in life. 216 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,519 A few places to have behaviors that will lead to 217 00:10:18,039 --> 00:10:21,240 a more enjoyable experience by everybody who's playing with them. 218 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,720 And I think for social golf and for golf networking, 219 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,279 you can see into the soul of the person you're 220 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:28,840 playing with. 221 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 3: By the fourteenth hole. 222 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: You know if they're a good person, an honest person, 223 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,559 a caring person, or a person who will a generous 224 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,879 person will help you look for their ball, a person 225 00:10:38,919 --> 00:10:43,879 who can deal with frustrating situations, who will celebrate your 226 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,240 good shots. And for me, those are the people who 227 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,679 I want to be with. And if I blased somebody 228 00:10:49,919 --> 00:10:52,759 who I see can't control their anger, or who gets 229 00:10:52,759 --> 00:10:56,759 frustrated easily, or who'll get or who doesn't want to 230 00:10:56,799 --> 00:10:59,399 help me look for a lost ball, are these people 231 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,080 that I really want in my life in other areas? 232 00:11:02,759 --> 00:11:06,679 Speaker 3: And most of the time the answer is no, I don't. 233 00:11:06,759 --> 00:11:07,120 I don't. 234 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,039 Speaker 2: I'm not looking for the most competitive games. I'm not 235 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,879 looking to destroy my opponents. I'm looking to have friends 236 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,759 and colleagues and people who I enjoy spending time with. 237 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,679 Fred I spend If I spend four hours golfing with someone, 238 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,399 that's probably the biggest time commitment I'm going to make 239 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,799 that day, and so I want to enjoy it. 240 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: There's no question that golf exposes character. Yeah, like you 241 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,919 were just talking about how how you know doing it? 242 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,320 I did an episode once talking about doing business on 243 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,960 the golf course and what the person was explaining this 244 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,720 woman was great and it's always stayed with me, is 245 00:11:52,759 --> 00:11:57,000 that when you're going out to play golf with somebody 246 00:11:57,039 --> 00:12:01,279 who you may do business with, whether be an lawyer, employee, 247 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,919 or a client customer, whatever it is, you don't do 248 00:12:06,039 --> 00:12:10,480 business during the round. What you do is you learn 249 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,440 if you want to do business with that person while 250 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,639 watching them play golf, what is their temperament, like, what 251 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,360 is their anger level, what is you know, what gets 252 00:12:19,399 --> 00:12:23,200 them going? And then if you decide that yes, you 253 00:12:23,279 --> 00:12:25,200 do want to play golf, you do want to do 254 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,240 business with them, then you do that in the nineteenth fold, 255 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:29,919 you go to the bar and then you start talking 256 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:31,399 about it to your thoughts. 257 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 3: It's the ultimate character referrals. 258 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:39,279 Speaker 2: But you you're finding out they're honest, and that means 259 00:12:39,399 --> 00:12:41,360 are they calling their true score? 260 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 3: Are they committed? Are they you know, do they have 261 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,039 this stick to it? Noess? 262 00:12:47,039 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 2: Can they deal with adversity? All of those things? Are 263 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,679 they going to rip you off? Are they fairer? Those 264 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,399 are all the things that you want to know, and 265 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,279 you can't find out in a phone call, like oftentimes, 266 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,679 you have to do business to find out if you 267 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,200 want to keep doing business well on the golf course. 268 00:13:02,279 --> 00:13:04,720 If it doesn't go well on the golf course, is 269 00:13:04,919 --> 00:13:07,080 not going to go well in the business deal. So no, 270 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,840 I've never negotiated a single business term or completed a 271 00:13:11,879 --> 00:13:14,639 deal on the golf course. Have I made relationships where 272 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,000 people trust me and I trust them and I want 273 00:13:17,039 --> 00:13:18,279 to spend more time with them. 274 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 3: Absolutely. Have we had conversation that proves. 275 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 2: Because I was a political and brand consultant, where I 276 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,600 had something interesting to say or they had a problem 277 00:13:29,639 --> 00:13:30,720 that I can help. 278 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:31,879 Speaker 3: Them with, for sure. 279 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,279 Speaker 2: But most of the time we're you know, we're chit 280 00:13:35,399 --> 00:13:38,639 chatting about life, and then we talk about this shot, 281 00:13:38,759 --> 00:13:40,720 and then we're chitchatting about something else and then we 282 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:46,000 say great pot. So it's always golf sprinkled in conversation. 283 00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:48,840 And what I like about golf is golf is the 284 00:13:48,919 --> 00:13:52,960 natural chit chat. When you run out of chitchat great drive, 285 00:13:53,519 --> 00:13:57,080 you can talk about top break. Oh you lost that ball. 286 00:13:57,159 --> 00:13:59,080 That's going to be expensive hole because you just put 287 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,120 your pro v one in the world water and you 288 00:14:01,159 --> 00:14:06,159 know what, you have another one that's exactly or I 289 00:14:06,159 --> 00:14:09,440 think the ultimate thing is I love this will of 290 00:14:09,519 --> 00:14:12,759 somebody finding a golf ball, Like I just I love 291 00:14:12,799 --> 00:14:15,639 when they delight in finding a new gol and it 292 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:17,159 put they put it in their back and I'm like, 293 00:14:17,639 --> 00:14:19,879 I'm really happy for you found a new golf ball. 294 00:14:21,639 --> 00:14:22,799 Speaker 3: St people to light in that. 295 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh absolutely absolutely. So do you play for money? 296 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,799 Do you are you gambler on the golf course or I. 297 00:14:32,759 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: Mean, I mean my biggest bet are two, two, four, five, five, ten, 298 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,080 Those are the nassaus that that's my you know, and 299 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,879 if I splurge, it's you know, dollar skins. Yeah, that's 300 00:14:43,919 --> 00:14:45,279 that's that's what I was big as a catch. I 301 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,279 don't need to bet money in golf. That doesn't it 302 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:51,039 doesn't get me more engaged or energize. 303 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:52,519 Speaker 3: It just gets me nervous. 304 00:14:53,799 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: The exact same way. It's like part of the problem 305 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:59,039 with my son. Even when we went to top golf, 306 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,559 He's like, all right, bucks on this. I'm like, come on, man, 307 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,480 just let's hit the ball. I can't do it unless 308 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:05,639 I have skin in the games, like. 309 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 3: Because he can't. 310 00:15:07,159 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 2: He didn't play with his dad enough skin in the game, 311 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:12,039 like I mean, either rooting for his dad or rooting 312 00:15:12,039 --> 00:15:14,679 against his dad would be. My son and I used 313 00:15:14,679 --> 00:15:19,320 to play twenty dollars. I think we played twenty dollars 314 00:15:19,399 --> 00:15:22,480 skinned until maybe he was fourteen, because he needed money 315 00:15:22,679 --> 00:15:25,000 and he could always beat me, so it was I 316 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:26,639 always knew it was a good way to give him 317 00:15:26,639 --> 00:15:29,879 some money, spend some time with him, keep him engaged. 318 00:15:30,159 --> 00:15:32,679 And then I think somewhere around when he graduated high 319 00:15:32,679 --> 00:15:35,519 schools like, dad, we don't need to play for money anymore. 320 00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:36,879 I just want to be out here with you. 321 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:38,919 Speaker 3: And I thought that was very sweet. 322 00:15:38,919 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 2: And then he asked for a couple hundred bucks afterwards 323 00:15:40,759 --> 00:15:43,960 for some you know, with him spending money. 324 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 3: But he didn't have to win it off me. 325 00:15:45,679 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: Right we were, my son and I were playing. Once 326 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,039 he goes I have fifty bucks, I'm like five, because 327 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,519 no fifty. I said, do you need fifty bucks. If 328 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,559 you need fifty bucks, I'm happy to give it. Right, 329 00:15:55,679 --> 00:15:58,000 don't torment me, don't. 330 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,799 Speaker 3: Humiliate me, right, don't don't make me. 331 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,639 Speaker 1: You know, he can't beat me. 332 00:16:02,799 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 3: He can't beat you. 333 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,639 Speaker 1: No, he cannot beat me. But he can. But he 334 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,440 gets into my head better than anybody. And one time 335 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,159 we were going out and I'm like, okay to no, 336 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:14,960 I'm just going to get into his head. I know 337 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,720 I can beat him. I'm just going to get into 338 00:16:16,759 --> 00:16:19,519 his head. And what happens. He has one of the 339 00:16:19,559 --> 00:16:22,519 worst rounds of his life and I can't do it. 340 00:16:22,519 --> 00:16:24,600 It's like, my son, I can't beat you up. You're 341 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:25,960 beating yourself. 342 00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:26,279 Speaker 3: Up so much. 343 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: Now you're going to take off him and he is. 344 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,240 He calculating for holes. So he's like putting it out down, 345 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:34,440 six down, seven. 346 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,919 Speaker 1: Times over and said, just tell me at the end 347 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,279 of the round and at it up. I don't want 348 00:16:39,279 --> 00:16:40,120 to know during the run. 349 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,559 Speaker 3: Did he have money to pay you? 350 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,399 Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, always. I haven't had to give this kid 351 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,240 an allowance since he was eight. He's always got a 352 00:16:48,279 --> 00:16:49,000 scam going. 353 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 2: That's I mean, that's a pretty entrepreneurial kid. 354 00:16:52,279 --> 00:16:54,639 Speaker 3: So that's good. So I mean something's working. 355 00:16:55,399 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: Yes, he's and he's working it. 356 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 3: I told you before, and yeah it works. And that's 357 00:17:01,679 --> 00:17:04,759 my son. Matthew is is too. I don't. He doesn't. 358 00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 2: He doesn't bet on the golf course anymore. Maybe maybe 359 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,400 with his friends, but it's not for money, it's for honor, 360 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,640 it's for points. They do a Ryder Cup. All his 361 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,039 college friends get together a couple of times year and 362 00:17:14,039 --> 00:17:16,559 they do a Rider Cup format. And that's just fun 363 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:19,119 to see that they love golf so much that they'll 364 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,400 fly to Arizona or they'll fly up here to New 365 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:22,640 York and just play. 366 00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:23,519 Speaker 3: That's exciting. 367 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:27,279 Speaker 1: Absolutely. So you mentioned about using golf to build a 368 00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:28,119 better network. 369 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:29,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's. 370 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: Bring that out. Let's tease that out for just a 371 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:33,720 moment here. 372 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 2: I've think fortunate to be part of a group called 373 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,640 a Young Professionals Young President's Organization, which is a group 374 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,480 of which is a group of young presidents all under 375 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,920 fifty years old, and they have something called the Golf Network. 376 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,039 And originally I thought the Golf Network was for all 377 00:17:49,039 --> 00:17:52,599 these young presidents who were you know, scratch golfers. No, 378 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,079 the Golf Network is for like fifteen to twenty handicaps 379 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:00,880 who just enjoy getting together for golf, and White is 380 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:05,079 spread all over the world, and so I would look 381 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:08,799 at the website and find all these different places they 382 00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:11,759 were hosting golf events. So the first one I found 383 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,400 was the YPO World Championship, which I thought that sounds 384 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,079 like a big thing, and it was in Dubai, and 385 00:18:18,599 --> 00:18:22,400 I'm going to go play in the YPO World Championship. 386 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,160 It turned out to be a bunch of fifteen and 387 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,079 twenty handicappers and Dubai was just coming together. And I've 388 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:32,920 gone to events in Australia and Tasmania. I've gone to events. 389 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: Events these are young that's Young Presidents organization. 390 00:18:37,839 --> 00:18:41,039 Speaker 2: All Young Presidents. And so that was that was one 391 00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:44,039 form of my golf network. And then in New York, 392 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,079 I know New York has a lot of golf, there's 393 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,319 there's public I mean, we have the Ryder. 394 00:18:49,039 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 3: Cup coming in just a couple of pages. 395 00:18:51,319 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, that case, which will be that's going to really 396 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:55,880 be a major event from there. That will be as 397 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,880 big as any Yankee World Series or Nicks basketball or 398 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:02,880 you know, even they're going to have the World Cup. 399 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,759 I don't I don't think New York expects what the 400 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,920 Ryder Cup has become because it hasn't been here in 401 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,920 a while, and New York is going to go absolutely 402 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,920 crazy for their for their for the Ryder Cup. 403 00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:19,799 Speaker 3: So but I have so, I have friends and we 404 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:20,400 each are. 405 00:19:21,279 --> 00:19:25,279 Speaker 2: Either members of private courses golf clubs or have public 406 00:19:25,319 --> 00:19:28,440 courses and we just play. I never I never play 407 00:19:28,559 --> 00:19:31,839 more than five rounds at my home club because I'm 408 00:19:31,839 --> 00:19:34,160 always going to my friend clubs and having home and 409 00:19:34,279 --> 00:19:36,960 homes and that's something I really enjoy. 410 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:43,759 Speaker 1: That's awesome. That's awesome. So, so your book about not 411 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,920 about golf, you know. The line that I was fed 412 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,359 here is that it explores the life changing joy of 413 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,880 the game, debunking myths and highlighting how golf's momentum fosters 414 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,359 social and networking benefits for everyone. 415 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: Yes, well, because golf brings people together together of all abilities. 416 00:20:03,519 --> 00:20:06,559 With the handicap system, we can all play golf. So 417 00:20:06,599 --> 00:20:09,960 the handicap, I'm a fourteen handicap, I don't know you're something. 418 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 3: You're a five handicap more you were a five handed. 419 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,400 But even when in the days when you were lowered. 420 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:20,079 Speaker 2: We could play together because you would you know, you 421 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,880 would give me a couple of strokes on different holes 422 00:20:24,079 --> 00:20:27,480 and we'd have very competitive matches. Equals the playing field 423 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,119 a little bit and allows us to stay engaged, and 424 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:31,680 no other sports. 425 00:20:31,559 --> 00:20:32,559 Speaker 3: Really allow that. 426 00:20:32,839 --> 00:20:34,599 Speaker 2: You know, you always have to have similar level of 427 00:20:34,599 --> 00:20:38,119 players playing or it's not satisfying. So golf brings together 428 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:42,240 that way. It also brings together people in different formats 429 00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:45,920 at different times, and it's outdoors. It's a way to 430 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:50,200 spend time with each other. And now after the pandemic 431 00:20:50,599 --> 00:20:53,759 where golf was completely discovered as the one sport that 432 00:20:53,799 --> 00:20:57,960 we could all do together, people realize that no one 433 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,480 really cares how you're playing golf as long as you're 434 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,400 playing fast and as long as you're keeping accurate scores. 435 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,119 What golfers don't like is they don't like because it's 436 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:09,839 one golf course for all of us, no matter what 437 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,160 the level. So the golf course has to keep moving 438 00:21:12,759 --> 00:21:15,440 and golfers like to keep things honest. So if you're 439 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,240 playing fast and you're playing honest, everybody will want to 440 00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:20,359 be out with you. And it's a great equalizer. And 441 00:21:20,519 --> 00:21:26,279 there's very few things like that that bring communities together. Men, women, children, 442 00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:29,920 gen Z's are playing more golf than ever, and they're 443 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,440 not just playing on golf course, they're also playing in simulators. 444 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:39,039 I think you know that half of there's seventeen million 445 00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:43,079 golfers who are playing in simulators, which is indoor like 446 00:21:44,839 --> 00:21:47,640 a five iron, which is a big simulator. Here in 447 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,960 New York. We talked about top golf, and that's where 448 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,160 a lot of golf is being played. 449 00:21:57,279 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: Let's continue have thought about simulator golf, indoor golf, because 450 00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:05,079 it is really exploding right now. The technology has gotten 451 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:09,400 so good. TGL has helped promote it, and I think 452 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:13,200 that young people are discovering that, hey, wait, I can 453 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,920 play golf. I can play eighteen holes of golf in 454 00:22:16,319 --> 00:22:18,359 under two hours and I don't have to walk or 455 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,759 ride a cart. This sounds wonderful. 456 00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 3: And you get amazing feedback. 457 00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 2: Because Jenz loves to have feedback, how long did ago, 458 00:22:29,799 --> 00:22:30,599 how high did it go? 459 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:31,559 Speaker 3: What was this spin? 460 00:22:31,839 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 2: Because they're used to video games, so they get that 461 00:22:35,039 --> 00:22:37,799 instant feedback, but they get the dopamine rush. If the 462 00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:40,440 simulator says it was too sixty two down the fairway, 463 00:22:40,799 --> 00:22:44,200 it's too sixty two down the fairway. There's no disputing that. 464 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,319 And unlike en course golf, where you know, there might 465 00:22:48,319 --> 00:22:49,880 be a pond on the right, or there might be 466 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,200 trees on the left. They don't see those, they don't 467 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,519 really see those ferriers. So some of the stress that 468 00:22:56,599 --> 00:22:59,119 can come from just you know, looking at the site 469 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,200 or the bunker doesn't exist. You're always hitting at the screen. 470 00:23:02,599 --> 00:23:05,680 So it's it's actually a more enjoyable experience where they 471 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,680 can groove their swing get good results. And the simulative 472 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,519 golf translates to encorese So if they play. 473 00:23:14,039 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 3: One on one on green. 474 00:23:16,079 --> 00:23:19,559 Speaker 2: Grass for every three simulators, that's a beautiful ratio. And 475 00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:24,680 it's also very cost effective, very cost effective, sixty five 476 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,759 dollars an hour for similar to golf. Maybe you can 477 00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:30,839 get it down as though many buildings are putting simulated 478 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,480 golf as an amenity in residential and it's an amenity 479 00:23:35,519 --> 00:23:37,720 and commercial now is it really? 480 00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:38,319 Speaker 3: Yes? 481 00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:41,559 Speaker 2: If you look at the Empire State Building here in 482 00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:44,440 New York City, the world's most famous building, they have 483 00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:48,279 a simulator, and they have they have tournament and they 484 00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:50,839 are using it as a way to get their tenants 485 00:23:51,079 --> 00:23:54,240 to convene groups. And it's a wonderful amendy in a 486 00:23:54,279 --> 00:23:59,359 building that is legendary and historic and epic as the 487 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:00,039 Empire State. 488 00:24:01,079 --> 00:24:04,920 Speaker 1: And as we were discussing, it builds your network. It's 489 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:06,279 a great way to build your network. 490 00:24:06,799 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 2: It builds your network, and you're talking to people. One 491 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,200 person hits seven people are talking. 492 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:12,519 Speaker 3: I didn't. 493 00:24:12,559 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 2: I wonder if they even played foursomes. I bet simulator 494 00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:18,200 golf allow us for all different formats. 495 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 3: Sure, sure, right. 496 00:24:23,599 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 1: Right, well right now, let's let's get back to or 497 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,839 let's get not even back. We haven't gotten there yet. 498 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,680 We've been chatting like this but not about golf. Is 499 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:39,279 not your first book, but it's your first golf topic book. 500 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,039 Let's establish where you came from and now you got 501 00:24:44,079 --> 00:24:44,680 to this spot. 502 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 3: Well, I'm a researcher. 503 00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:51,039 Speaker 2: I started off doing polling for an audacious congressman named 504 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,519 Ed Kotch who wanted to New York City. I worked 505 00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:57,240 for Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton. I worked for Mike Bloomberg, 506 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,039 and I worked for some of the top brands I 507 00:24:59,079 --> 00:25:03,000 worked for. I worked for Open Ai, worked for Airbnb. 508 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,720 I've worked for all these different brands who really for politician. 509 00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,480 They wanted to get elected, for the brands who were 510 00:25:10,519 --> 00:25:13,319 disrupting the way that people do business. They wanted to 511 00:25:13,319 --> 00:25:16,359 get momentum, and so I was a momentum seeker, and 512 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,240 so as a polster, I find information and I share 513 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,559 it with large groups. And the book that I'm probably 514 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,480 most well known for is called maxim Momentum, How to 515 00:25:26,519 --> 00:25:28,680 Get It and How to Keep It was a book 516 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,880 about modern momentum, and momentum was always this very emotional 517 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,319 feeling like I have momentum, I've lost momentum. I was 518 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:41,480 able to quantify momentum using social media analytics and create 519 00:25:41,519 --> 00:25:45,720 an algorithm to decide a brand, a person, a sport, 520 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,279 who you know who has momentum and how to keep it? 521 00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:49,599 Speaker 3: And I used. 522 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 2: So Isaac Newton's definition of mass time's velocity to calculate momentum. 523 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,559 And so in the book, I showed how modern politicians, 524 00:26:01,599 --> 00:26:04,200 Donald Trump, whether you liked him or hate him, a 525 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,640 momentum master who in politicians you always have to have 526 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,039 maximum momentum on election day or you lose. And Trump 527 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,519 seems to figure out how to get that momentum. And 528 00:26:15,559 --> 00:26:18,119 so we admired and we see politicians who couldn't get 529 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,160 the momentum or peaked too early and lost. So that 530 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,839 was a lesson I learned in politics and with golf. 531 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,119 I always thought that I found golf at twenty one 532 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,680 and it had been a real life changer for me 533 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,880 and my family and my wife, and we played and 534 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,359 my friends played. But I didn't understand the cultural significance 535 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,000 of golf until the pandemic happened. And during the pandemic, 536 00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:44,880 golf was really one of the few things that we 537 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,240 could do as a society, as a neighborhood, as a 538 00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:52,440 community to go out in golf because we had all 539 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,119 the social protections to be outside. 540 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:56,319 Speaker 3: It wasn't contagious. 541 00:26:56,599 --> 00:26:59,279 Speaker 2: We could do as for it, be together, but we 542 00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:03,720 could still be separated, right And so golf sturge. Eight 543 00:27:03,799 --> 00:27:07,480 hundred thousand more women started to play golf. Gen Z 544 00:27:07,759 --> 00:27:10,799 came into golf, and there were golfers who were starting 545 00:27:10,799 --> 00:27:13,319 to play at sixty year old golfers for the first time. 546 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,920 We're coming out to play because they wanted to be 547 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,480 part of it. They weren't trying to win the club championship, 548 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,200 although maybe some of them were. Most of them just 549 00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:24,759 wanted to be social and be with their friends. And 550 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,839 I could see the momentum of golf just absolutely taking off, 551 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:31,480 and that's why I wanted. 552 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:32,039 Speaker 3: To share it. 553 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 2: Because I knew they could take lessons to get their 554 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,319 swing better, but who was going to teach them the 555 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,160 social and networking parts of golf? And I felt that 556 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,799 this was my opportunity to share with them. 557 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: You know, in the years that I've been doing this, 558 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:53,559 we've seen two momentum factors in golf, the second one 559 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:59,920 being COVID where the pandemic to industries that really benefited 560 00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:04,440 from from the pandemic were golf and podcasting. So I 561 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,799 seemed to be right in the right spot. Yeah, podcasting 562 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,559 exploded at that point, but also the Tiger Woods effect 563 00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:16,200 in their early two thousands was another thing. So where 564 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:21,480 are we now as far as momentum in golf to 565 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,960 continue to grow the sport. Are we in a good 566 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,599 spot or is it kind of waning because we're no 567 00:28:28,079 --> 00:28:29,839 that far outside of no? 568 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 3: I think so. 569 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,559 Speaker 2: Tiger Woods brought in athletes and brought in people who 570 00:28:34,599 --> 00:28:37,319 wanted to be like Tiger play like Tiger, And I 571 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,279 actually think that while it was amazing for the sport, 572 00:28:41,079 --> 00:28:44,359 that was an intimidating version of golf because Tiger Woods 573 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,680 was an amazing player who made great shots, and that 574 00:28:47,839 --> 00:28:51,400 was still the era where there were golf I mean 575 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,319 there was Nie Arnold, Palmer, Jack Nicholas and and we 576 00:28:55,319 --> 00:28:59,839 can go through Gary Player, all these amazing golfers and 577 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,279 you wanted to be a PGA pro. Right, this isn't 578 00:29:03,319 --> 00:29:06,880 what we're talking about. We're talking about a grass roots 579 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,640 led from the people wanting to go into the golf court. 580 00:29:10,759 --> 00:29:14,720 It's a very different movement that's going on right now. 581 00:29:14,759 --> 00:29:19,200 Which I think that as I've gone through these book 582 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:23,000 tour and understanding the issue that we have Freds that 583 00:29:23,039 --> 00:29:25,599 we need to deal with is we've got to eradicate 584 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:29,680 golf intimidation. And what I mean by golf intimidation is 585 00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:34,599 it's okay to duffer shot. You know, it's okay to 586 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,680 not have to stripe a two hundred and fifty hours drive. 587 00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:41,640 We don't really care if the golf balls are jacked 588 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,519 or not jacked. It's not going to make any difference 589 00:29:44,559 --> 00:29:47,519 to my game. I don't know if I need a 590 00:29:47,559 --> 00:29:50,960 new driver every year to pick up the extra ten 591 00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:53,160 yards for the golf that I want to play. 592 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 3: Like I said, I probably need to plot a little 593 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:56,039 bit more. 594 00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,519 Speaker 2: And that's the type of golf that we're into now. 595 00:29:59,559 --> 00:30:03,039 And I say that because golf is happening everywhere. It's 596 00:30:03,039 --> 00:30:06,880 happened at the office, it's happening in your building, it's 597 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,240 happening outside, it's happening with your kids, it's happening with 598 00:30:10,279 --> 00:30:15,759 your grandparents. Everybody is playing golf and all the and 599 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,599 even what's more interesting, couples golf tournaments, formerly known as 600 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,519 the Divorce Open, are. 601 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:23,480 Speaker 3: Now the rage. 602 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 2: More people want to play with their spouse, whether it's 603 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,519 your husband or your wife. That was always a toxic 604 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,920 event because of some of the tension. Now people love it. 605 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,319 They want to have play nine and wine and dine. 606 00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:40,720 And that's where we're at with golf. And so I 607 00:30:40,759 --> 00:30:44,240 think as we understand that you don't play golf to 608 00:30:44,279 --> 00:30:46,720 get away from your family, you play golf to be 609 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,039 with your family. It's a very different mindset. 610 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,039 Speaker 1: It really is. It really is, really. 611 00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:54,559 Speaker 2: Is, and I think the golf When I talked to 612 00:30:54,599 --> 00:30:57,599 the Golf Channel about it, I was surprised that they 613 00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:00,599 were my first interview because I was worried with golf, 614 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,279 you know, with the with the golf hierarchy. Would think 615 00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:05,960 about a guy writing a book called Not about Golf, 616 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,119 like how serious is he? And they were like, yeah, 617 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,559 maybe we should maybe we are a little intimidating, and 618 00:31:12,599 --> 00:31:15,160 maybe people don't understand that if you talk to a 619 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,640 PGA professional, they don't really care. If they're playing with 620 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,200 you in a social game, they don't care how you play. 621 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,480 They just want to like you. And that if they're 622 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,359 in a match to win some money, or you know, 623 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,799 an amateur event where they're going to you know where 624 00:31:29,839 --> 00:31:32,680 they're going to be, you know, the champion, sure they 625 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,279 want to take it. But if they're just playing a 626 00:31:34,319 --> 00:31:36,759 social match where you're having a few drinks, he just 627 00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:40,759 wants someone who's who's engaging and quite frankly, they say, 628 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:41,759 not an asshole. 629 00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: Part of what your book talks about is a lot 630 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,319 about your golf. Your your experience is going and playing 631 00:31:55,319 --> 00:31:57,400 in some of the greatest courses. And I was like, 632 00:31:57,839 --> 00:32:00,000 I don't want to know, guy, you keep talking about 633 00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,400 these great courses that I'll never go to play. This 634 00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:05,039 is so cool and it's all about your experience. But 635 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,319 tell me more about debunking myths in golf. 636 00:32:09,119 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 2: Well, I think the biggest myth about golf is that 637 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,519 it's older people, it's wealthier people, it's whier people, and 638 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,680 that might have been a version and it's more male. 639 00:32:21,079 --> 00:32:24,880 That might have been a golf in the past, but 640 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,079 it isn't what golf is today. Golf is more accessible 641 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:34,200 than it's ever been. Golf is as much younger people 642 00:32:34,279 --> 00:32:35,119 as older people. 643 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,079 Speaker 3: It's as many women as men. 644 00:32:37,279 --> 00:32:40,119 Speaker 2: And so I think getting rid of this older image 645 00:32:40,279 --> 00:32:46,039 of golf and getting to a modern image golf fashion 646 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,680 like I'm still waiting for being able to untuck my 647 00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:53,400 shirt everywhere I go. It hasn't happened yet, but it's 648 00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:57,960 starting to. Golf is mirroring society and the values. Golf 649 00:32:58,039 --> 00:33:01,200 is inclusive. If I say, do you golf, I'm not 650 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,400 trying to keep you out of my life. I'm trying 651 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,920 to bring you into my life. I want to If 652 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:07,400 I say to you golf, it means I want to 653 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,759 spend time with you. I want to hang out with you. 654 00:33:10,079 --> 00:33:12,160 And I'm not going to I'm not going to judge you, 655 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,799 hire you golf. I'm going to judge you as a person. 656 00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:17,799 I'm going to judge your character. I'm going to judge 657 00:33:17,839 --> 00:33:21,519 are you engaging? Are you caring? And that's where golf 658 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:26,000 is changing. I'm not going to I mean, I might 659 00:33:26,039 --> 00:33:27,920 tease you a little bit if you if you make 660 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:29,880 a fundy shot, but I'll do it with a smile, 661 00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:33,000 and I'll do it in an endearing way. 662 00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: Yeah. So one of the things that other people are like, yeah, 663 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,000 I don't I don't know. I can't. What a stupid 664 00:33:42,079 --> 00:33:44,240 game that putting a ball in a little hole. 665 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,799 Speaker 2: That's not what golf is because they don't get it, 666 00:33:46,839 --> 00:33:48,839 and they won't spend the time I have. People say, 667 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,519 I wouldn't spend four hours doing that. I want something 668 00:33:53,559 --> 00:33:56,440 more athletic, I want something more strategic. I want something 669 00:33:56,759 --> 00:33:59,079 more engaging. And I say to them, well, why don't 670 00:33:59,119 --> 00:34:02,000 we come out and walk eighteen holes and you tell 671 00:34:02,039 --> 00:34:05,279 me how you're feeling. Why don't we think about these 672 00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:07,720 shots and all the different options, and you can tell 673 00:34:07,759 --> 00:34:10,199 me if your mind was engaged, or if you want 674 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:13,679 to play inside, and let's have a few drinks and 675 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,599 talk and then you tell me at the end what 676 00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:19,280 you thought, because you've made up this mental mind of 677 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,320 what you think golf is based on some understanding that 678 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,119 you had, and the truth of the matter is you 679 00:34:25,159 --> 00:34:26,000 haven't opened. 680 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,199 Speaker 3: Your mind to try it. And that's what I wanted 681 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:29,800 to do with the book. 682 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 2: That one of the reasons I even did the color 683 00:34:31,559 --> 00:34:35,199 is I didn't do like the classic Bucolic scene of 684 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,400 a fairway with trees, I put a big golf ball 685 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,159 with his textured because that is the universal sign that 686 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:47,880 everybody recognized. Whether you play championship golf, simulator golf, mini golf, 687 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,679 pot pop golf, everybody would no matter what language you 688 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:54,800 play in, if you play in Korean, Japanese, Spanish, English, 689 00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:56,440 you know what a golf fall is. 690 00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 3: And we all know what a golf fall is. 691 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,440 Speaker 1: Yes. Yes. One of my favorite lines in the book 692 00:35:02,559 --> 00:35:06,159 is the game itself is a laboratory for positive life 693 00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:09,880 skills such as generosity, humility, humor, kindness, and friendship. 694 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's and you certainly know, you certainly know 695 00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:18,519 after fourteen holes. I don't think you have to play 696 00:35:18,559 --> 00:35:24,760 with someone twice. They cannot control their impulses, good or bad. 697 00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:29,000 Because you have adversity in golf no matter who you are. 698 00:35:29,679 --> 00:35:33,079 Something doesn't exactly work out the way you planned, or 699 00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:37,599 you have unexpected success in golf, and both of those 700 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,519 require a certain temperament. If we are something great happen 701 00:35:41,599 --> 00:35:44,639 in our life, we don't instantly jump up for joy 702 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,039 and start hugging each other. And if something bad happens, 703 00:35:48,039 --> 00:35:50,880 in life. You know, we don't start throwing stuff. If 704 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,440 you know people who throw their club I'll never talk 705 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:54,000 to them again. 706 00:35:54,119 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 3: Like, I'm not into that. I want to know you 707 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:57,800 need help. 708 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. One of my listeners told me when he was 709 00:36:00,679 --> 00:36:02,360 playing with his dad when he was a kid, and 710 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,800 he got upset and threw his club and his dad said, 711 00:36:05,039 --> 00:36:07,159 you're not good enough to throw your clubs yet. 712 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't. 713 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,400 Speaker 2: I wonder what that would feel like, because don't you 714 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,880 need that club, you know, like. 715 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 3: Like right, like that. 716 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,639 Speaker 2: I have a practical thing, so like if you throw 717 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,920 your wedge, you're going to need to be hit that 718 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,360 wedge again. So probably I see it like I see people, 719 00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:27,440 you know, slam a club, even in simulators, I see it. 720 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 3: I'm like, it's it's golf. 721 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:35,079 Speaker 2: You have another shot, Like there's always another shot, another one. 722 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: People have expectations of, like, and golf's not that easy. 723 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,519 Speaker 3: Who makes every who makes one hundred percent of anything? 724 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:43,360 Speaker 1: Nobody? 725 00:36:43,679 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 3: You know, no one. 726 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,760 Speaker 2: The spelling test, I don't spell all the words right. 727 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,320 It's just it's just not what I do. But I 728 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,920 went to a golf psychiatrist. It wasn't really a golf psychiatrist. 729 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,800 It was a sports psychiatrist. I had lost my game. 730 00:36:57,199 --> 00:36:58,199 I love golf. 731 00:36:58,239 --> 00:36:59,639 Speaker 3: It was the most important thing to me. 732 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,559 Speaker 2: And then I was in a business deal, like the 733 00:37:02,559 --> 00:37:04,880 best business deal I'd ever had in my life, and 734 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,320 I was deep in due diligence, and you know, they're 735 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,599 asking me all these questions. I have just no idea 736 00:37:09,639 --> 00:37:12,599 what the answer to and I couldn't golf and keep 737 00:37:12,599 --> 00:37:15,119 my head in the due diligence, and I thought that 738 00:37:15,199 --> 00:37:18,320 it was gone. And I played several rounds and I 739 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,559 said to my friend at dinner, I said, I really 740 00:37:21,599 --> 00:37:23,719 need to find a new golf coach because I thought 741 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,239 I needed to work on my swing. And his wife, 742 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,639 who never has played a round of golf in her life, says, 743 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,239 you don't need a golf coach, you need a psychiatrist. 744 00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:35,679 And I said, yes, I need a psychiatrist. And so 745 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:39,199 I went to the performance coach and the coach said, okay, let. 746 00:37:39,039 --> 00:37:39,679 Speaker 3: Me get this right. 747 00:37:40,119 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 2: He said, when you're I've done iron Man before as 748 00:37:44,639 --> 00:37:46,519 part of my afflets, and he said, like, when you're 749 00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:47,599 riding your bike. 750 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,679 Speaker 3: Do you ever see yourself just falling off? 751 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 2: I'm like no, And he said, when you're doing a 752 00:37:53,519 --> 00:37:55,960 presentation in the meeting. Do you ever just see yourself 753 00:37:56,199 --> 00:37:59,239 going off the right rails and saying something so ridiculous 754 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,519 that they never want to talk to you again. I said, no, 755 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:04,159 when you're skiing, do you see yourself just rolling down 756 00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:07,199 the mountain? No? He said, so, why when you play 757 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:09,199 golf do you see your ball? Why do you see 758 00:38:09,199 --> 00:38:11,480 the future and you see your ball going into the 759 00:38:11,519 --> 00:38:14,960 pond or the trees? And so he gave me this exercise, 760 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,360 and I at first was very skeptical. 761 00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,280 Speaker 3: And he said, five things you. 762 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,280 Speaker 2: See, four things you hear, three things you touched, two 763 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,360 things you taste, and et cetera. And I, if you've 764 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,960 ever tried that, it can knock your train of thought 765 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,519 off from anything you're thinking, and it works. And I 766 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,559 found out that professional golfers have tricks to also, you know, 767 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,400 when they're when they're playing, to distract themselves a little bit. 768 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,880 And I never knew and so like even I was 769 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,760 playing in a golf tournament two weeks ago in Aspen, 770 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:48,960 and it was a pretty tight golf tournament. 771 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:49,639 Speaker 3: I was with a friend. 772 00:38:49,679 --> 00:38:52,519 Speaker 2: It was our eighteenth year and my friend had told me, 773 00:38:53,639 --> 00:38:56,519 you know, I spent a lot of time playing golf. 774 00:38:56,880 --> 00:38:58,960 I want to be competitive in this and so he 775 00:38:59,079 --> 00:39:02,360 really raised there and I felt a lot of pressure, 776 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,280 but my golf was at the game. So in between shots, 777 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,760 I would start to look at the trees and I'm like, 778 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,400 I was starting to count the leaves, I was counting 779 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,079 the birds. I was looking anything I could to not 780 00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:15,320 think about golf, so that when I got up to 781 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,719 my shot, it just went and I thought, the mind 782 00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,239 is really active and you know, calming it down, and 783 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:25,239 then I use it in work. It has the same effect. 784 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,320 I just chill out and start to think about something else, 785 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,000 and when the question comes to me, I know exactly 786 00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:30,559 what to say. 787 00:39:31,679 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: Well, you just recapped over a thousand episodes of golf spread. 788 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:38,760 Speaker 2: That's why I wanted to come on this show, because 789 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,159 I thought, you're into this stuff. 790 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,119 Speaker 1: Oh yes, it's I mean. Episode one was with doctor 791 00:39:44,199 --> 00:39:48,119 Joe parent of Zen Golf. Oh, Zen Golf is my book, 792 00:39:48,639 --> 00:39:52,000 and that's why I had him on episode one in 793 00:39:52,039 --> 00:39:55,039 two thousand and five. He's been on the show many times. 794 00:39:55,199 --> 00:39:59,280 Speaker 2: Round as you walk, absolutely, oh Zen, I'd read Zen 795 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,119 Golf over and over again. 796 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:07,159 Speaker 3: You can't meet it enough. Oh then golf here the birds. 797 00:40:08,199 --> 00:40:10,559 Speaker 1: Or one of my favorites. I mean, I have lots 798 00:40:10,559 --> 00:40:15,960 of lines that I quote for is it if things 799 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,480 aren't going right, if you have a bad shot, treat 800 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,519 it like an Etra sketch. Flip it over, shake it off, 801 00:40:21,679 --> 00:40:22,480 and then move of. 802 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 3: Oh my god. 803 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,239 Speaker 2: I love when he said yeah, he said, feel the ground, 804 00:40:27,519 --> 00:40:31,239 smell what's going on here, the birds that are barely chirping, 805 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,039 and you can then golf. 806 00:40:33,039 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 3: That was the first. 807 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,639 Speaker 2: Time I started to practice that, because no one, you know, 808 00:40:37,679 --> 00:40:39,800 they don't tell you that when you first start golf 809 00:40:40,119 --> 00:40:42,559 that you have to clear your mind after every shot. 810 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,679 Speaker 3: No, no, you're just focus on the next one. 811 00:40:47,079 --> 00:40:48,880 Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, I was in Japan and 812 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,880 we were at a with a meeting with a Buddhist 813 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,760 monk on top of a mountain in his a little 814 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:59,199 monastery there, right, and we talked about sitting meditation and 815 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:03,760 walking meditatis, and then he started talking about Zen Golf, 816 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,760 the book Zen Golf, and I'm like, wait a minute, 817 00:41:06,039 --> 00:41:09,320 that's one of my teachers. He called it The Golf 818 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:11,800 the golfing Zen, and I'm like, no, no, you mean 819 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,119 Zen Golf. My doctor goes, yes, yes, yes, one. 820 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,519 Speaker 3: Of the great books. Because like, look when when when 821 00:41:17,519 --> 00:41:20,079 you and I started chit chatting before, I never thought 822 00:41:20,119 --> 00:41:23,199 this that we wouldn't have report. But it's never it's 823 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:24,559 not it's not a possibility. 824 00:41:24,559 --> 00:41:27,079 Speaker 2: I looked at your profile like this is exactly what 825 00:41:27,199 --> 00:41:29,599 I like to talk about, and so and yet on 826 00:41:29,639 --> 00:41:31,960 the golf course, I probably tends up all of it 827 00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:34,159 when we got to the first hole because we haven't 828 00:41:34,159 --> 00:41:37,360 golf together, you know, and so like, why how can 829 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,000 we be so natural here? And then we get to 830 00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:42,880 the first t and we're like, let's see where it goes. 831 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:48,880 Speaker 1: Oh I'm flattered. Oh that's so great. Yeah, yay, Zen Golf. Okay, 832 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,480 and again, anybody who's never read it. 833 00:41:51,599 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 2: Get it again and again again. 834 00:41:55,679 --> 00:41:59,320 Speaker 1: And he's got Zen putting, and he's got a lot 835 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,079 of different books. I read them all, and he's just 836 00:42:02,119 --> 00:42:05,280 a wonderful, wonderful person. Last thing I want to touch 837 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,440 on as far as what golf brings to the table. 838 00:42:09,159 --> 00:42:11,400 And you know a lot of people are like, oh, 839 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,519 I'm playing I play golf once or twice a year 840 00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:18,000 at a charity tournament. And what golf does for charity 841 00:42:18,119 --> 00:42:21,760 in itself, whether it's on the tour and the millions 842 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,159 they get raised or billions too locally. 843 00:42:26,079 --> 00:42:28,199 Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting. I have two responses to that. 844 00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:34,639 Speaker 2: One, I think charity golf is just scratching the surface. 845 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:39,159 It is because charity golf brings people together and it 846 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,119 raises so much money, and yet I think the possibilities 847 00:42:43,159 --> 00:42:45,840 are so much more to bring in it to all 848 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,679 different areas because charity golf is community. And my wife 849 00:42:50,679 --> 00:42:53,559 and I sponsored a boys and Girls club tournament and 850 00:42:53,559 --> 00:42:57,079 we raised hundreds of thousands of dollars in one golf event. 851 00:42:57,159 --> 00:42:59,960 And I'm like, if we can raise this in one 852 00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:03,840 golf this is the power of golf to convene people, 853 00:43:04,199 --> 00:43:07,199 to convene people who are like minded to support things. 854 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,199 And so the reason I had the reaction when you 855 00:43:09,199 --> 00:43:11,880 said that I golf one or two times and charity, 856 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,559 I'm like, this is somebody who we should get golfing 857 00:43:14,679 --> 00:43:17,519 all the time because they like golf. And then we 858 00:43:17,559 --> 00:43:20,719 should find different ways for charities to not just have 859 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,280 golf events to play golf, but golf events to bring 860 00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,159 in new golfers, because it shouldn't just be that we're 861 00:43:27,159 --> 00:43:31,320 playing to scramble or we're playing, you know, best ball. 862 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,079 We should have something for new golfers. If you're new 863 00:43:35,079 --> 00:43:37,320 to golf and you've never played, We're going to do 864 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,639 introductory golf. We're going to teach you that etiquette that 865 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:42,679 your son went through. We're going to teach you the 866 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,679 basics of holding a club. We're going to teach you 867 00:43:44,679 --> 00:43:47,639 out of putt, and so we should have different levels 868 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,519 to charity golf. I want to reinvent the way that 869 00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:53,360 charity golf has been. I don't want anybody at the 870 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,440 table signing people in. I want them to sign in 871 00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:59,400 on their iPhone before they get there. I want all 872 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,159 the people who are participating in the tournament on the 873 00:44:02,159 --> 00:44:06,039 course and interacting and golf and not being left behind 874 00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:08,440 in anyway. So I have a strong point of view 875 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,880 on the power of charity golf because I just think 876 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,400 it's starting and it's I mean. 877 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:14,679 Speaker 3: I don't even know the number of twits. I'm sure 878 00:44:14,679 --> 00:44:16,679 it's billions, but it's just starting. 879 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I was on a committee putting together a 880 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,119 charity tournament a number of years ago, and I suggested, 881 00:44:24,159 --> 00:44:29,039 I said, why not at the turn have some messuses 882 00:44:29,079 --> 00:44:31,920 there in those chair chair massage and give you a 883 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:33,719 chair massage. It's like, that's. 884 00:44:35,559 --> 00:44:35,800 Speaker 3: Wait. 885 00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 2: I played, I played the best tournament I play in 886 00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:43,559 is called the trash Masters. It's the Trash Masters is 887 00:44:43,599 --> 00:44:47,880 played at snow Mask Club in uh snow Mask, Colorado. 888 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:52,599 And you get points for the trash, so you get hu, 889 00:44:53,679 --> 00:44:56,800 you get points for a sandy you get which is 890 00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:57,800 out of the sand. 891 00:44:57,840 --> 00:44:58,639 Speaker 3: You get a barkie. 892 00:44:58,639 --> 00:45:01,039 Speaker 2: If you hit a tree, you get an otis if 893 00:45:01,079 --> 00:45:03,679 you go up and down and and as long as 894 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,280 you get net par you get the points. And that 895 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,400 is the most fun way to play golf because you're 896 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,719 just joking around with your friends trying to You don't 897 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,800 need to score, you know, five hunder. You're looking to 898 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,480 just get some junk. They put a tractor out there 899 00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:22,599 and they call it a ford like And these are 900 00:45:22,639 --> 00:45:25,880 just fun events. And I think a charity golf is 901 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:30,039 where we should bring people in have them get unusual experiences. 902 00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:34,079 The massages, the drinks, the what have you to make 903 00:45:34,159 --> 00:45:37,199 golf fun and engaging. You know, they don't all have 904 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:41,679 to be structured as a as a as a PGA event. 905 00:45:42,119 --> 00:45:45,800 Speaker 1: An otis up and down way I mean to send 906 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:46,599 you to send you. 907 00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,440 Speaker 2: I'm going to send you the trash Master's Book, and 908 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,119 I'm going to connect you trash Masters is one of 909 00:45:53,199 --> 00:45:57,079 the most unique tournaments. And and and Jim Nanats. 910 00:45:57,039 --> 00:45:58,360 Speaker 3: Was involved that you talked about him. 911 00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:01,320 Speaker 2: He's he's one of the the guys to get behind it, 912 00:46:01,599 --> 00:46:06,199 and it's brought this whole community together to appreciate what 913 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,519 golf is and to enjoy this in this most unusual way. 914 00:46:11,559 --> 00:46:14,159 Speaker 1: Mike, tell people how they can check out all your 915 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,599 books and your websites and you're on social media. 916 00:46:17,679 --> 00:46:20,559 Speaker 2: The best way is Not about Golf dot com, which 917 00:46:20,599 --> 00:46:22,440 is you can find about all the things I'm doing. 918 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,639 You can go to Amazon and get Not about Golf, 919 00:46:25,679 --> 00:46:28,000 which is the book, and you can always find me 920 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,199 at Mike Berlin dot com. But Not About Golf is 921 00:46:30,199 --> 00:46:32,800 the best way to learn about what we're doing and 922 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,480 where we're going with this. The response has been absolutely phenomenal. 923 00:46:36,519 --> 00:46:39,840 I was quite nervous with the golf community, the hardcore 924 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,679 golf community would think, and they love it because they 925 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,519 know that golf intimidation is an issue that we have 926 00:46:45,559 --> 00:46:48,159 to overcome to grow to the next level. When it 927 00:46:48,199 --> 00:46:51,719 comes up from the grassroots, that's when it's sustainable. 928 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,400 Speaker 1: Awesome, Mike, this has been a blast. Thank you so 929 00:46:55,519 --> 00:46:58,000 much for your time and for sharing and for wanting 930 00:46:58,039 --> 00:46:59,760 to be on the show so we can have this 931 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:00,519 guy conversation. 932 00:47:00,679 --> 00:47:02,880 Speaker 3: This has been great, This is absolute pleasure. 933 00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,920 Speaker 2: But I'm looking forward to I'm gonna we're gonna get 934 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:05,719 out and play. 935 00:47:06,039 --> 00:47:08,920 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm in take you 936 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:10,360 Speaker 3: To one of my magical courses.