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Every week, 27 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:26.239 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 28 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.280 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host 29 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:42.959 journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good. 30 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:46.200 Evening, the stunning true story of a murder that rocked 31 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:50.120 the Mississippi Delta and forever shaped one author's life and 32 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:53.879 perception of home. In nineteen forty eight, in the most 33 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:58.200 stubbornly dixified corner of the Jim Crow South Society, matron 34 00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:02.400 Idella Thompson was vicious murdered in her home, stabbed at 35 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:05.920 least one hundred and fifty times, and left face down 36 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:09.599 in one of the bathrooms. Her daughter, Ruth Dickens, was 37 00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:12.800 the only other person in the house. She told authorities 38 00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:16.000 a black man she didn't recognize had fled the scene, 39 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:19.560 but no evidence of the man's presence was uncovered. When 40 00:02:19.599 --> 00:02:22.960 Dickens herself was convicted and sentenced to life in prison, 41 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:27.520 the community exploded. Petitions pleading for her release were drafted, 42 00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:31.680 signed and circulated, and after only six years that Governor 43 00:02:31.719 --> 00:02:36.680 of Mississippi granted Ruth Dickens an indefinite suspension of her sentence, 44 00:02:37.039 --> 00:02:41.639 and she was set free In Deer Creek Drive. Beverly Lowry, 45 00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:44.039 who was ten at the time of the murder and 46 00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:47.800 lived mere miles from the Thompson's home, tells a story 47 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:52.479 of white privilege that still has ramifications today and reflects 48 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:56.000 on the brutal crime, its aftermath, and the ways it 49 00:02:56.120 --> 00:02:59.960 clarified her own upbringing in Mississippi. The book of her 50 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:03.360 featuring this evening is Deer Creek Drive, A Reckoning of 51 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:08.000 Memory and Murder in the Mississippi Delta, with my special guest, 52 00:03:08.199 --> 00:03:12.680 journalist and author, Beverly Lowry. Welcome to the program, and 53 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:15.680 thank you very much for this interview Beverly Lowry. 54 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:17.439 Thank you for having me on Dan. 55 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:20.960 Thank you so much. And congratulations. I know this is 56 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:23.879 the paperback edition of this book that came out last 57 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:29.039 year in twenty twenty two. Congratulations on this extraordinary book. 58 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:29.599 Thank you. 59 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:32.719 Let's start off with something I think is very important 60 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:36.000 again for this very very important book. You put you 61 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:39.439 have a little thing that you write in the introduction. 62 00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:43.560 Tell us give us that introduction if you don't mind. 63 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:50.080 Deer Creek Drive is fundamentally a story about the attitudes, behavior, 64 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:54.879 and language of Mississippi in the nineteen fifties. This was 65 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:59.039 the decade of Brown versus Board of Education of mm 66 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:03.360 attil and at the beginning of the end of Jim Crow. 67 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:08.120 While this material is often difficult, my aim was always 68 00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:13.479 to illuminate and reconnoize the reality of living and growing 69 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:16.839 up at that section of the state we called the 70 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:21.240 Delta during this time. As such, the book uses a 71 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:28.079 number of primary sources documents, court testimony, newspaper articles, as 72 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:31.800 well as the reliance on memory, much of which reflects 73 00:04:31.920 --> 00:04:36.839 the demeaning and problematic language that was used so freely 74 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:39.079 and unsparingly at the time. 75 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:40.959 It is both my. 76 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:46.240 Story and the story of an unreconstructed South and how 77 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:48.920 both of us were destined to change. 78 00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:53.160 Thank you now. You grew up in Greenville, Mississippi, which 79 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:58.000 is nine miles from Leland, Mississippi, in a section of 80 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:02.560 Mississippi people called the Delta. Yeah, you had moved away 81 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:04.680 when you were young and went on to become a 82 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:08.120 best selling novelist and nonfiction author. But you were back 83 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:12.680 in Greenville in twenty eighteen. Tell us about encounter with 84 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:16.120 the realtor and what that encounter with the realtor made 85 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:19.920 you realize about a story that occurred in November seventeenth, 86 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:21.000 nineteen forty eight. 87 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:24.399 I had begun to think about the murder that occurred 88 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:29.120 in nineteen forty eight, and had gone to Leland where 89 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:33.639 the murder took place, to look around and try to 90 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:37.360 see what I could find was left of the houses 91 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:42.800 that played a part and just the basic scene of 92 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:46.839 the town. A realtor who'd been introduced to me drove 93 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:51.160 me around and we drove past the house where Idella 94 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:57.040 Thompson had been murdered, slashed to death with printing shares, 95 00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:00.439 and we drove by other homes that had to do 96 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:05.519 with this story, and she said that she could get 97 00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:08.920 me into the house she had she knew the owner. 98 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:14.319 The owner said absolutely not. And she also said, this 99 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:18.639 house is on the best street in town, Deer Creek Drive, 100 00:06:19.120 --> 00:06:23.959 but it's actually on the wrong side of Deer Creeks. 101 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:27.240 And I said, what does that mean? And she said, 102 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:32.600 the north side. The real estate is higher there, It's pricier. 103 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:34.199 And more in demand. 104 00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:39.439 And I said why and she said, because black people 105 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:45.480 lived on the other side. This was twenty eighteen, when 106 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:48.600 things supposedly had changed. 107 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:52.319 Now you say this story, everybody knew this story you 108 00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:56.360 were ten years old on November seventeenth, nineteen forty eight. 109 00:06:56.519 --> 00:06:58.920 So you go back in writing this book and go 110 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.079 back to what was report ordered at that time, what 111 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:03.680 was in the media, and of course, as you spoke 112 00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:07.079 in the introduction of the language of the time, reflecting 113 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:11.959 the mentality at the time. So this Idella Stoval Long Thompson, 114 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:15.000 you tell the story that she had just been released 115 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:19.959 from a hospital. Tell us who Idella Stovell Long Thompson 116 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:22.639 is before we talk about what happens that day. 117 00:07:22.759 --> 00:07:27.720 Adela Thompson was what's known as a society nator in 118 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:28.279 the town. 119 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:30.319 She came from. 120 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:37.439 The Mississippi Dela family is very important. Ancestry is probably 121 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:42.680 still but certainly certainly was at that time important who 122 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:47.639 you're not just grandfather was, but great grandfather was if 123 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:49.839 he fought in the Civil War and such as that, 124 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:55.759 and she came with all of that heritage that was 125 00:07:55.800 --> 00:08:00.360 important to the town. So for somebody like a Della 126 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:07.839 Thompson to be murdered was particularly newsworthy and shocking. Not 127 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:12.759 just to the town. This murder was retold time and 128 00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:15.399 again and newspapers all over the country. 129 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:19.199 So let's talk about the day in question and who 130 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:22.800 was there? And Ruth Dickens is her daughter. She's forty 131 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:25.360 two years old. Tell us a little bit about her 132 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:29.639 before we talk about the attack that she reports first 133 00:08:29.639 --> 00:08:32.559 the police, but she reports. Tell us a little bit 134 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:33.519 about Ruth Dickens. 135 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:34.960 Okay, Ruth Thompson. 136 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:41.039 Dickens was one of four children that Idella Thompson and 137 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:44.600 Ruth lived. And I called her by her first name 138 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:48.360 because everybody calls her called her by her first name. 139 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:53.120 Ruth lived three doors down from her mother and basically 140 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:57.000 took care of her to a great extent. And so 141 00:08:57.279 --> 00:09:00.919 Idella had been in the hospital for weeks. It's basically 142 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:06.639 high blood pressure which she had suffered chronically, and had 143 00:09:06.759 --> 00:09:11.879 brought her home that day November seventeenth, nineteen forty eight, 144 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:17.200 and helped her eat lunch, and by the time the 145 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:22.200 afternoon rolled around, the murder had been committed. But Idella 146 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:26.200 Thompson depended on Ruth Dickens to a great extent. 147 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:30.320 You talk about the situation in terms of these people 148 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:34.000 owning a lot of acreage and what we could be 149 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:37.720 called plantations at once upon a time, but big estates, 150 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:40.919 and also that the Thompson's and the Dickens were very 151 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:44.559 wealthy and owned a lot of land, but there was 152 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:49.440 a land transfer of sorts, a situation where Ruth Dickens 153 00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:54.000 was in trouble business wise. Tell us a little bit 154 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:55.039 about the situation. 155 00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:59.399 Yeah, I mean the land was in was it had 156 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:03.639 been in the father's name, the father of Ruth Dickens, 157 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:09.559 the husband of Idella Thompson, and so when he was 158 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:14.519 he himself either committed suicide or was murdered. The land 159 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:20.559 transfer basically went to Idella Thompson, but it was a 160 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:26.720 difficult transfer because he had not been in on the 161 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:31.279 ownership of the land. Ruth Dickens then with her brother, 162 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:35.679 took over the maintenance of the land and the money 163 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:39.480 of getting loans, as everybody in the Delta who farmed 164 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:44.759 had to get loans, and Ruth was in charge of 165 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:49.000 any of the money transactions that took place. She had 166 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:54.919 secretly borrowed money from friends to payoff debts that were 167 00:10:55.159 --> 00:11:00.480 increasing year by year and until they could not management. 168 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:07.519 Her husband, John Dickens, then managed to take possession of 169 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:12.039 the land. It's a very complicated set of actions, but 170 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:15.840 the land at the time of the murder of Idella 171 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:21.080 Thompson was in the name of John and Ruth Dickens, 172 00:11:21.519 --> 00:11:27.559 not in the Thompsons, and Idella Thompson clearly was not 173 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:31.200 happy about this. The land had been had come actually 174 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:35.480 from her side of the family, and it had always 175 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:39.399 been in that side in her name, and then her 176 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:42.559 husband's name, and now it was in the name of 177 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:44.960 her son in law and daughter. 178 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:49.240 Now Ruth. During this time of turbulence in her and 179 00:11:49.320 --> 00:11:53.879 her brother's business, she conducted herself a certain way. She 180 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:57.240 was used to certain things. How did she conduct herself 181 00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:00.519 while business was declining and they were blee money? 182 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.320 She just kept it all a secret. And it's there 183 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:08.080 are a lot of theories as to why she did this. 184 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:14.279 It's not obvious or she never said, and nobody in 185 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:18.240 the family dead. But my sense of it was, I mean, 186 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:23.360 her husband said Ruth always liked to have her own business. 187 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:28.279 My sense of it was that Ruth was a very 188 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:33.080 self determined woman that she wanted to do it on 189 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:36.480 her home, and so she didn't want her husband, who 190 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:39.879 was making plenty of money to be in on to 191 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:44.360 help her out to take over, and so she secretly 192 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:48.279 borrowed money, didn't pay it back, and the deaths were 193 00:12:48.360 --> 00:12:52.879 piling up and nobody knew it except her and her brother. 194 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:55.639 And her brother was the one to throw in the towel. 195 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:59.480 He said, can't go on. He didn't have the income 196 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:03.440 to do it. And as he said, Ruth had done, 197 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:07.679 she had her husband to support her and her family, 198 00:13:07.879 --> 00:13:14.200 and he did not have that infant, so she borrowed money. 199 00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:15.519 How much this has. 200 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:20.320 To do with Idella Thompson's murder is again up to speculation. 201 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.559 In terms of this was said later by her sister Mildred. 202 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:28.919 But in terms of all appearances and just again behavior, 203 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:33.039 how was Ruth as a daughter towards her mother Idella? 204 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:38.919 The family line is she was a perfect daughter. She 205 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:41.399 was the one who took care of me. She was 206 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:46.919 not Idella Thompson's favorite child. That went to her son Jimmy, 207 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:51.879 but Ruth was. Both of these women were known to 208 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:55.480 be difficult. I can't tell you how many times I've 209 00:13:55.519 --> 00:13:59.039 heard people who knew both of them say how they 210 00:13:59.080 --> 00:14:04.080 could be difficult, and they were both strong willed. So 211 00:14:04.879 --> 00:14:11.240 whatever went on between them that the people didn't know about, 212 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:15.639 you know, remains a mystery. And since the book is out, 213 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:20.279 I've heard stories about screaming fights between the two women. 214 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.879 So it's I mean, the murder is over seventy years 215 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:29.120 old and people still can talk about it if they will, 216 00:14:29.480 --> 00:14:33.799 and they have things to say about, especially these two women. 217 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:37.080 So let's talk about Ruth. Ruth had visited her mother 218 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:39.480 in the hospital, I think for that week, and she 219 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:42.200 was there all the time, every day. She even picked 220 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:44.799 her up from the hospital. The brothers are at home 221 00:14:44.919 --> 00:14:49.720 as well and making Idella comfortable, but Ruth ends up 222 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:53.120 being there. They leave and so Ruth is there with 223 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:56.840 her mother Idella. November seventeenth, nineteen forty eight, there is 224 00:14:56.919 --> 00:14:59.960 a call to doctor Kinney Whitty, which is a friend 225 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:03.720 of the family. Tell us what the first word is 226 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:07.120 about what happened to Idella Thompson her mother. 227 00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:12.200 Yeah, Ruth called doctor Whitty and said she tried to 228 00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:17.360 talk to her mother's main doctor, couldn't get him, and 229 00:15:17.440 --> 00:15:20.960 so she talked to the elder doctor Whitty, and what 230 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:26.679 she said was something's happened to mother. She and Idella 231 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:29.720 Thompson had just gotten out of the hospital, which was 232 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:34.039 the Witty Hospital, and so the doctor assumed she had 233 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:38.000 a stroke because of her medical problem, and he said 234 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:42.039 in court he did not hesitate. He put on his 235 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:47.240 coat and hat and went straight there. The hospital is Leland's, 236 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:51.679 a very small town, and the hospital is perhaps or 237 00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:57.000 was three minutes from Idella Thompson's house, so he arrived 238 00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:58.679 there very quickly. 239 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:02.279 Now she had a story for him. He tells them 240 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:05.639 what happens. So he's the first person to hear her 241 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:09.879 account of what happened to the mother, and he also 242 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:15.240 recognizes that she has been injured in this Maine as well. Right. 243 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:20.840 She says she walked in on a black man who 244 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:26.600 was murdering her mother with printing shoes, and that she 245 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:31.799 confronted him and was able to rest the printing shoes 246 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:36.320 away from him, and but she that's how she got injured, 247 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:41.399 and that he then ran took off out the backscreen door. 248 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:46.240 What doctor Whittie saw was printing shoes that had been 249 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:51.799 washed clean, and the body of Missus Thompson, who he 250 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:57.000 said clearly was no longer alive. So it wasn't that 251 00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:01.559 something had just happened to her had been murdered. And 252 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:05.680 Boo's Dickenson is the only person in the house. And 253 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:13.200 so later he said he thought immediately that there had 254 00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:16.000 not been a black man in the house. 255 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:19.160 Tell Us who doctor Kenny Whitty is in terms of 256 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:20.319 relation to the family. 257 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:24.920 You know, again it's a small town, and the Witty 258 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:32.480 Hospital is also became the Leland Hospital was where everybody went. 259 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:39.200 And the Witty's were the Thompson's doctors, and so they 260 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:46.200 were close. And also Miss Thompson's doctor. Whitty's wife was 261 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:52.119 Idella Thompson's sister, so Adela Thompson was by marriage part 262 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:56.720 of the Witty family. These were very close relationships. And 263 00:17:57.319 --> 00:18:03.079 Leland is a place where the original founding families of 264 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:06.759 the town still lived there, certainly in nineteen forty eight, 265 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:10.079 and many of them lived there to this day. These 266 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:12.599 are white families now. 267 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:16.680 The first law enforcement to arrive are the chief of 268 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:21.799 Police of Leland, Frank Aldridge and his partner, Philip Gorman. 269 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:24.759 I mean, you talk about Leland, a real small, quiet 270 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:27.480 town of about five thousand. You say, back in the time, 271 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:31.640 not much crime. But there is a sheriff named Sheriff 272 00:18:31.720 --> 00:18:35.000 Huey Foot. Tell us about the first officers to arrive, 273 00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:39.400 what they find, and why shareff Foot isn't there, well. 274 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:44.079 Because he's the sheriff of the county. When Aldridge and 275 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:49.680 his partner arrived, you know, they the scene was horrific 276 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:54.079 and without mystery. The woman had been murdered and she 277 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:59.799 was lying to catastrophically cut to death. And so this 278 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:06.519 was beyond a city chief of police's duty to investigate. 279 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:11.279 So he called the county sheriff, who is to a 280 00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:15.960 or everybody calls him huge Foot, who was in Greenville, 281 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:20.000 And because it's the county seat and that's where I lived, 282 00:19:20.519 --> 00:19:24.480 so huge Foot got in his car and drove the 283 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:29.759 nine miles and showed up that afternoon. But then she 284 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.079 had been dead for almost two hours. 285 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:37.119 What was the condition that they found? The police found 286 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:41.880 Ruth Dickens in and where was she soon taken to? 287 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:47.240 Well, she was, as one person said, a mess. Her 288 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.720 hair was a mess. She had missing buttons from her 289 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:56.200 clothes and blood on her clothes. And she was a 290 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:02.000 very tidy person. Her hair was always immaculately combed and 291 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:08.039 groomed and cut short. And so she was taken pretty 292 00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:12.599 soon after the sheriff arrived back to the clinic, the 293 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.680 Witty Clinic, to because she had a few cuts that 294 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:21.799 needed stitching, nothing life threatening, but you know, she needed 295 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:22.759 some stitches. 296 00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:25.720 Now regarding her account, because that's what police have to 297 00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:31.079 go by what evidence can they gather to support what 298 00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:34.480 she has said? What evidence is there to support what 299 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:35.079 she had said? 300 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:39.039 You know, this is still even with Greenville was much 301 00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:43.720 bigger than Leland, but we're still talking about small town, 302 00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:48.599 smallish towns. Greenboll was almost forty thousand, so it was 303 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:50.440 in Mississippi terms, it was. 304 00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:51.039 A big time. 305 00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:55.200 But they actually did a lot of good work. They 306 00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:59.839 didn't no crime scene like this, it's perfectly examined. But 307 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:05.519 they searched for any sign of a black person or 308 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:11.200 a man, a stranger, a person with bloody who had 309 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:15.880 drops of blood, or had bloody feet and left footprints behind. 310 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:19.519 They looked at every hair they could come up with, 311 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.319 and found no sign of a black person's hair. They 312 00:21:23.519 --> 00:21:28.920 found basically nothing that indicated that. In the idella, Thumks 313 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:31.960 and Everybody had a maid who lived on Deer Creek 314 00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:35.839 Drive and the maid was black, but she was picking 315 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:38.920 cotton at the time. She had not been in the 316 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:43.440 house for a week. So they found no evidence. And 317 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:49.480 as Oogie Foot later said, Miss Dickens said, it was 318 00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:53.240 a black man, and so I was looking for a 319 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:53.799 black man. 320 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.240 Regarding these pruning shares, which were the murder weapon and 321 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:01.079 later with the autopsy was one hundred and fifty to 322 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:05.759 two hundred strikes on Idella Thompson with these bruning shears. 323 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:09.680 But what did Ruth say in terms of who brought 324 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:12.279 those bruning shears and why. 325 00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:13.839 She brought them? 326 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:18.440 Ruth did because her mother wanted her to pring some 327 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:23.400 rose bushes, and so she had gone down to her house, 328 00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:27.839 which is only three doors down, to get the printing 329 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:32.440 shoes and bring them back, and then she went back 330 00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:35.920 down to her house to get a couple of other items. 331 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:40.640 So the printing shoes were there in the house when 332 00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:43.720 Ruth came back from that second trip to her house, 333 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:48.400 and so she said they were there, and her story 334 00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:52.119 was that the man picked them up and went at 335 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:53.279 missus Thompson. 336 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:55.799 Part of her story was that even though she was 337 00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:59.079 five foot four, she was athletic, but she fought this 338 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:02.440 man that wasn't supposedly much bigger than her and wrestle 339 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:05.559 those shears away from him. Was that her story, That. 340 00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:09.359 Was her story. It's the reason I know all this. 341 00:23:09.680 --> 00:23:15.480 We know all this is Ruth herself tell that story 342 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:20.960 the same week of the murder to the investigative team. 343 00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:23.400 Let's juss as an opportunity to stop for a second 344 00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:24.240 for these messages. 345 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:26.960 It is Ryan here, and I have a question for you. 346 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:29.119 What do you do when you win? 347 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:29.599 Like? 348 00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:32.839 Are you a fist pumper, a woo, a handclapper, a 349 00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:34.720 high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But 350 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:36.400 if you want to hone in on those winning moves, 351 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:39.680 check out Chumbuck Casino at chumbacasino dot com. 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Where do they find those clothes? 360 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:08.799 Before we talk about Idella's clothes and where they get 361 00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:10.079 to right Ruth. 362 00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:16.000 After the sheriff arrived and started doing his own investigation, 363 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:21.599 he sent Ruth to the clinic to get her stitches, 364 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:26.519 and she stopped off at her own home to change 365 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:29.759 clothes and take off the bloody clothes she was wearing. 366 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:35.759 Her cleaning lady took the clothes, and it is not 367 00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:39.839 clear whether Ruth told her to do this or the 368 00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:43.599 cleaning lady did it on her own. She put the 369 00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:47.240 bloody clothes in a bucket of water to soak, to 370 00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:51.599 soak out the blood, and Ruth changed her clothes and 371 00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:54.960 went to the clinic. And this is one thing the 372 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:59.400 sheriff and his people missed. There were several teams. Nobody 373 00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:07.279 even considered Ruth's close as possible crime scene evidence because 374 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:10.400 she said she didn't. She said somebody else did it, 375 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:13.160 and they believed her because they knew her, they were 376 00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:16.440 friends with her, and the people saw it. She would 377 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:20.440 never do anything like this. The likelihood was it was 378 00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:25.599 an intruder, and the bigger likelihood was it was a 379 00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:26.559 black man. 380 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:31.480 Let's talk about how she explains the murder weapon being 381 00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:35.720 wipe clean of prints or blood. How does she do that? 382 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:41.240 Well, she said that he had time to wipe them off. 383 00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:44.759 I mean, it's not clear why she saw it they 384 00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:45.279 were clean. 385 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:50.720 Now, meanwhile, the media is reporting on this story right away, 386 00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:54.599 and you talk about the Democrat Times, the Delta is 387 00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:58.440 it the Delta Democrat Time Times? And also how they 388 00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:00.960 report that in the language they use for that, but 389 00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:04.640 also that meanwhile, this Sheriff Foot is trying to get 390 00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:07.000 an interview with Ruth, isn't he yes? 391 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:12.359 And the family says, when the family says she's not 392 00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:15.759 up to it, she's not well, she's hurt. You know, 393 00:26:15.880 --> 00:26:20.359 this man has damaged her. He said he went away. 394 00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:24.519 So it was again a lot of this has to 395 00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:27.599 do with it being a small town of people who 396 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:33.000 know one another and are in on one another in 397 00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:36.680 ways that says, I trust her. She wouldn't say that 398 00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:40.599 it weren't true, and so he had to wait until 399 00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:47.160 after the burial of Idella Thompson to talk to Ruth Dickens, 400 00:26:47.319 --> 00:26:53.400 and it was the conversation. The questioning was done in 401 00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:58.599