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Daidover everyby loss comes to conference 23 00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:02.560 to being plus. 24 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.760 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 25 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:14.879 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 26 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:22.239 written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every 27 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:25.959 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 28 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:30.519 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 29 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:43.519 journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening. 30 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:48.760 Just after four am on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, 31 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.040 four University of Idaho students were viciously stabbed to death 32 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:56.680 in an off campus house. The killings would shake the small, 33 00:01:56.719 --> 00:02:01.439 blue collar college town of Moscow, Idaho, dominate mainstream news coverage, 34 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:05.239 and become a social media obsession, drawing millions of cliques 35 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:10.000 and views. While a reticent Moscow Police department, the FBI, 36 00:02:10.039 --> 00:02:13.919 and the Idaho State Police search for the killer, unending 37 00:02:14.039 --> 00:02:18.599 conjecture and countless theories blazed online in chat rooms and 38 00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:23.639 platforms from Reddit and YouTube to Facebook and TikTok. For 39 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:26.879 more than a month, the clash of armchair investigators in 40 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:30.840 law enforcement professionals raged until a suspect, the twenty eight 41 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:35.000 year old PhD candidates studying criminology, was arrested at his 42 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:38.680 family home twenty five hundred miles away in the Pocono 43 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:42.560 Mountains of Pennsylvania on the day before New Year's Eve. 44 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:48.400 While Idaho Slept is a thought provoking literary chronicle of 45 00:02:48.439 --> 00:02:53.199 a small town murder investigation blistering beneath the unceasing light 46 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:59.199 of international interests. As traditional investigators, citizen sleuths, and the 47 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:03.879 true crime meetia acted, sometimes together, often in conflict, to 48 00:03:03.960 --> 00:03:04.879 uncover the truth. 49 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:05.719 As J. 50 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:10.840 Ruben Appleman brings the terrible crime into focus, he humanizes 51 00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:15.520 the four victims, examining the richness of their lives, dissects 52 00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:19.719 the mind and motivations of their presumed killer, and explores 53 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:24.400 the world of Northern Idaho, a rugged, deeply conservative stronghold 54 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:30.319 deeped in Christian values and American patriotism. Going deep inside 55 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:34.199 the case, Appleman addresses a crucial question. With so many 56 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:38.120 millions of citizens, armed by access and hungry to take 57 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:40.599 part in a true crime hunt of their own, has 58 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:46.479 the nature of homicide investigations permanently changed? Rising above the sensational? 59 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:51.360 While Idaho Slept illuminates the intrinsic connection between today's media, 60 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:55.680 citizen sluice, our societal mania for murder tales and an 61 00:03:55.719 --> 00:04:02.039 important public's insatiable appetite for spectacle as never before. Running 62 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:05.639 beneath the pulse of the story is a heartbreaking narrative 63 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:08.599 of the people we love, the dreams we all share, 64 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:12.199 and the uncertain time left for sharing them. The book 65 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:15.560 that we're featuring this evening is While Idaho Slept, The 66 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:18.759 Hunt for Answers in the Murders of four college students, 67 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:22.639 with my special guest journalists and author Jay Rubin Appleman. 68 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:25.120 Welcome back to the program, and thank you very much 69 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:27.199 for this interview. Jay Ruben Appleman. 70 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:29.560 Thanks, brother, it's good to talk to you again. 71 00:04:29.600 --> 00:04:32.480 Thank you very much for this interview. And congratulations on 72 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:34.720 this new book, While Idaho Slept. 73 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:36.920 Yeah, it's the kind of thing I mean, I appreciate 74 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:39.519 the sentiment, the congratulations. It's the kind of thing I 75 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:42.920 don't generally feel comfortable accepting. You know, It's like, four 76 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:46.439 people had to die for this book to come into play, 77 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:49.639 and I'm just doing my best to chronicle the story 78 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:52.439 that I can chronicle. I'm happy to be the person 79 00:04:52.639 --> 00:04:54.639 who gets to do it. I think of it as 80 00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:58.720 a privilege. But I appreciate your sentiment. Yeah, but I'm 81 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:01.279 glad the book is getting out, Glad that people are 82 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:02.839 going to be able to read it. I'm glad that 83 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:06.399 the audience that has been following this case will have 84 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:11.519 something more whole to grasp onto, and they'll get to 85 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:14.800 meet the victims in a better way than they've had 86 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:19.040 in little blips and blurbs across mainstream media for the 87 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:22.120 last ten months or so. This will be a richer, 88 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:26.199 more compassionate, more full story of I think of what 89 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:30.600 occurred and who these people were, and I think that's important. 90 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:34.120 So yeah, I appreciate your sentiment. Also, thank you so much. 91 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:37.839 It's a real I know it's cliche, but you've honored 92 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:42.040 the victims in this book remarkably and admirably. So let's 93 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:45.839 get right to this incredible tale. You take us to Moscow, 94 00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:49.319 Idaho as a college town most of the year, and 95 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:52.240 you say it's about half the population when it isn't 96 00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:55.879 in session. Tell us a little bit more about Moscow, Idaho. 97 00:05:56.120 --> 00:06:01.319 Moscow is a really unique, really really special place in 98 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:05.279 North Idaho that North Idaho in general is a place 99 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:08.759 that most people in the country never get to. It's 100 00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:11.439 known for a few things, some good some bad It's 101 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:16.000 known for some of its religious zealotry or some of 102 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:20.839 its history with white supremacy, but those are things that 103 00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:26.040 really are small things in that area. What North Idaho 104 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:32.120 is mostly about is sort of spiritual, faithful, heartfelt people 105 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:35.519 who work hard and love each other and take care 106 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:38.439 of each other in the landscape is a beautiful landscape. 107 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:42.680 That is the stuff that Hollywood draws from in its 108 00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:47.160 Western films, things like that. I am familiar with Moscow, 109 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:50.199 Idaho on multiple levels. I've lived in Idaho for twenty 110 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:52.720 five years. I've been working as a private investigator for 111 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:55.680 a decade, and many of my cases have brought me 112 00:06:55.800 --> 00:07:00.680 up to North Idaho, Moscow area, Lewiston, which is nearby 113 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.519 places like that, and I've worked up there many times. 114 00:07:04.839 --> 00:07:06.759 I have a child who went to the University of 115 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:11.240 Idaho graduated from there just a few years before these 116 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:16.839 victims were slain, and having visited during those school years, 117 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:21.759 I can say that during the school session, the University 118 00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:26.399 of Idaho session, it's a thriving, sort of bustling little 119 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:31.279 village that is really rich culturally, where old school Idahoans 120 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:33.920 who have lived there for maybe four or five generations 121 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:37.800 in that area, mingled very freely with the liberals who 122 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:41.680 come to school there. Sometimes there's a large LGBTQ population. 123 00:07:41.839 --> 00:07:45.000 There's a large sort of hipster gym rat population, as 124 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:48.040 I call, people drinking fancy coffees and stuff. But they're 125 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:51.240 sitting next right next to the old cowboys who sort 126 00:07:51.240 --> 00:07:53.920 of landed there four generations go, or I should say, 127 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:56.399 the ancestors of the old cowboys. And it's a very 128 00:07:56.480 --> 00:07:59.360 interesting dynamic up there when school is out of session, 129 00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:01.839 which is when I I've done most of my PI 130 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:05.199 work up there. In the summers, it's a very very 131 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:08.519 sleepy sort of hamlet of a place that is really 132 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:12.959 uniquely comfortable feeling for one of those small places. It 133 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:16.199 doesn't have that sort of rough edge that a lot 134 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:18.560 of really small places have, even in the summer when 135 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:21.040 it's sleepy and there's only you know, twelve or fifteen 136 00:08:21.079 --> 00:08:24.000 thousand people there. In some of those small towns that 137 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:27.079 you go to, especially in the West, there's the air 138 00:08:27.240 --> 00:08:30.879 of coldness that was sort of bred into social interactions, 139 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:33.440 you know, But not in Moscow. Moscow is a very 140 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:37.559 friendly place. And I ended up writing this story not 141 00:08:37.679 --> 00:08:40.440 because I was chasing a true crime. Du jour or 142 00:08:40.480 --> 00:08:42.600 something like that. That is not how I work. I 143 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:45.600 write about things that matter to me, cases that somehow 144 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.679 touched me. The first one in the kill Jar. I 145 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.240 wrote about those murders because they happened virtually in my 146 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:53.840 backyard and the outside of Detroit when I was growing up. 147 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:57.279 That case affected me deeply on a sort of spiritual 148 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:01.639 and psychological level. And same now with the University of 149 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:05.200 Idaha murders. I mean, it's not just my personal connection 150 00:09:05.279 --> 00:09:07.879 to the place, but where I live in Boise, Idah, 151 00:09:08.000 --> 00:09:11.159 five hours south, there are hundreds of people that I 152 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:15.679 know who have personal connections to either the victims or 153 00:09:16.279 --> 00:09:20.080 the surviving too, or to Moscow in general, or the 154 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:23.320 University of Idaho. You can't walk around where I live 155 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:27.279 and not know somebody who went to school there or 156 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:30.919 knew one of the victims, or whose family friends are 157 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:33.039 in contact with one of the survivors or I mean, 158 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:35.559 it's just it's a very palpable in the air sort 159 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.159 of case here. And so when Albert Collins chose me 160 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:41.879 to do this book, I mean that was really why, 161 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:45.120 because of my personal connection to the state, my personal 162 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:48.919 connection to the community, and things like that. So I 163 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:52.080 know that area very well, very tied to that area 164 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:56.120 through multiple tentacles, so to speak, and it's a beautiful place. 165 00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:00.919 Let's get before we talk about November twelve two, Let's 166 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:05.200 introduce first some of the one of the four victims, 167 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:09.440 and that's Kaylee Gone Selvis and she has a roommate 168 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:12.720 named Mattie Morgan. But let's first talk about Kaylee Gone 169 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:15.240 Salves and her background. 170 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:19.960 Yeah, you mentioned Mattie as well. Kaylee can solve. It's 171 00:10:19.960 --> 00:10:23.120 hard to talk about Kaylee Gonsolves without talking about Matti Mogan. 172 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:25.559 But Kayleie she grew up in North Idaho with a 173 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:30.919 really large family, parents who took great interest in her upbringing. 174 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:35.799 Steve and Christy and very actively involved in Kaylee's life. 175 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:39.240 Kaylee was sort of the I wouldn't say the troublemaker, 176 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:42.440 but the spunky one of the group, and always a jokester, 177 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:45.639 always pulling pranks, kind of life of the party type 178 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:49.159 and always having fun, always smiling, kind of in control 179 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:52.720 of her situation. You can see that in childhood. You 180 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:55.279 can also see that as an adult when she's on 181 00:10:55.399 --> 00:10:58.080 police bodycam. Later we can talk about that, but she 182 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:00.799 when police showed up to their college house for a 183 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:04.720 noise complaint. You can tell that Kaylene was somebody who 184 00:11:04.919 --> 00:11:07.000 could have been running your business. There could have been 185 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:09.679 you know, she was definitely somebody who was the face 186 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:12.440 of wherever she was. You know, she could take charge 187 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:15.200 of a situation, She could take charge of herself. She 188 00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:17.240 could take charge of like I say, you could see 189 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:19.279 she was going to be the face of a business 190 00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:22.840 someday or something like that. A big personality, very charismatic, 191 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:25.960 like very well spoken. And her family was not what 192 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:28.679 people think of when they think of North Idaho when 193 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.080 they're not from the area. They think of, oh, it's 194 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:35.559 like lower income, or they say people from out of 195 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:37.840 state people especially on the East and West coast, we 196 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:41.399 think of blue collar as necessarily one of the requirements 197 00:11:41.440 --> 00:11:45.039 is sort of like a poor, uneducated things like that. 198 00:11:45.360 --> 00:11:48.559 She has a very whip smart family and very well 199 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:50.639 to do for that area. You know, they live on 200 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:52.960 in a beautiful house on a nice plot of land, 201 00:11:53.000 --> 00:11:56.639 and her family for all all that, everything we can find, 202 00:11:56.919 --> 00:11:59.039 it really took care of her. She came from a 203 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:03.759 very privileged but hardworking scenario, I could say that. And 204 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:06.600 she was right about to graduate. In fact, she had 205 00:12:06.600 --> 00:12:09.440 already started moving out of the house and had what 206 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:12.960 I could tell from all reports that she had only 207 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:16.200 come back to spend the weekend with her roommates and 208 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:18.200 show them a new vehicle she had purchased in. One 209 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.879 of those roommates, Matt Maddey Mogan, was Kaylee's best friend 210 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:24.240 since very early on in early school years. I mean 211 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:26.679 they were stuck together at the hips so to speak, 212 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:29.879 and always doing everything with each other. Kaylee's family took 213 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:32.600 Maddy Mogan on all their big trips that they would 214 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.639 take to overseas or to cross the oceans, I should say, 215 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:39.159 and I'm just big big adventures that the family. Kaylee's 216 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:42.120 family dragged Maddie on, and it was a friendship that 217 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:45.039 looked from the outside if you were one of the 218 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:47.399 kids who didn't get all that stuff like the big 219 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:50.159 house and the adventures with family and the close knit 220 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:52.519 family and the love between best friends and all that, 221 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:56.399 you really noticed Kaylee and Maddie as something that was 222 00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:58.200 admirable and that you would have loved to have in 223 00:12:58.279 --> 00:12:59.360 your own life. 224 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:03.960 Let's talk about now, Xanna Kernodle and Ethan Japin. 225 00:13:04.080 --> 00:13:09.320 Yeah, really interesting couple. Ethan came from also a very 226 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.279 sort of. I would say privileged background at least financially, 227 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:16.600 and family roots, a very tight family. He was a triplet, 228 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:19.519 a huge guy, six or four something like that, and 229 00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:23.320 great athlete, the traditional floppy hair of a college kid, 230 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:27.120 big smile on his face, dimples, handsome as all get out, 231 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:29.919 and you know, had all the benefits of a really 232 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:32.200 solid upbringing. I say in the book that they looked 233 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:33.559 like the family looked like they were out of an 234 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:36.279 Eddie Bauer catalogue, you know, And to a lot of 235 00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:41.279 people that means everything that appears Ethan really had, which 236 00:13:41.480 --> 00:13:45.480 was a good amount of family income, a great support 237 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:49.200 at home, just the confidence of somebody who grew up 238 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:51.120 with a lot. You know. He had a ton of 239 00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:54.080 confidence and carried a room with him, so to speak, 240 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:57.240 and knew how to work the room. And it's very 241 00:13:57.279 --> 00:14:01.039 interesting that he met up with Xanna Kernodle, who came 242 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:06.399 from a somewhat opposite environment. Her mother was in and 243 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:09.759 out of brief incarcerations because of drug issues, and that's 244 00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:12.759 a very sad thing. I'm not I'm not speaking disparagingly 245 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:15.000 at all when I say that, but it's very clear 246 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.480 that her mother had many many and continues to have many, 247 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:22.600 many troubles with based on her addictions, and her father 248 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:25.759 had a rough time in the beginning Santa's childhood, but 249 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:28.639 really is not that guy anymore. Is really just a 250 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:32.519 brilliant beauty, seems to be a beautiful human being, hard 251 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:36.240 working in the construction trades and built his own sort 252 00:14:36.279 --> 00:14:40.960 of contracting business. And Xanna did not live in poverty, 253 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:45.720 but Xanna lived with the sort of emotional trauma and 254 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:50.279 psychological trauma one can assume of having her birth mother 255 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:53.480 have all these complications in their life and in her 256 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:56.360 life and lived in the same areas. It's not as 257 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:59.639 if Zanna's mother was unseen. I mean, she was around 258 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:04.480 and that area and was in a lot of suffering 259 00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:07.759 through a lot of trauma and turmoil based on her addictions. 260 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:10.879 And that's what Xanna came from. It is is that history. 261 00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:14.600 And it's so interesting. It appears that when Xana and 262 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:19.399 Ethan began dating, Xanna entered a world of a big family, 263 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:23.519 big privilege, and she tiptoed through it, so to speak. 264 00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:25.559 You know, it seems like the way any of us 265 00:15:25.639 --> 00:15:28.159 who didn't grow up with that and are sort of 266 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:32.600 guests in that world it's an experience that is rich 267 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:36.879 and sometimes can be overwhelming and sometimes beautiful. And it 268 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:39.279 seemed like between the two of them had big dreams 269 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:42.039 together and that they had great, great, big love for 270 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:45.120 each other. And they appeared, from what everybody says, to 271 00:15:45.200 --> 00:15:48.279 have been a really beautiful, warm, loving couple. And it 272 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:52.399 seems to be happenstance. We won't know this until after 273 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.480 the trial, but seems to be happenstance that Ethan was 274 00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:58.720 there that night. Based on what we know the slayings 275 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:04.720 of these students, the suspect appears to have been somebody 276 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:09.120 who would have been targeting women, not men. So Ethan 277 00:16:09.399 --> 00:16:12.279 was not a resident of that house at King Road 278 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:15.639 where the other roommates, where he was a visitor staying 279 00:16:15.679 --> 00:16:17.600 the night with with Xana that night. 280 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:21.360 Before we get to November twelfth, twenty twenty two, and 281 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:25.440 first with Kaylee Gonzalvez and Matty Mogan, what they were 282 00:16:25.480 --> 00:16:29.240 doing that night, just tell us briefly about the layout 283 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.039 of the eleven twenty two King Road house, this sixth 284 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:35.840 unit house. Tell us about the security and just the 285 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:37.679 layout of this building itself. 286 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:40.519 That's a great place to start because it's such a 287 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:46.200 strange house for most people. It's got three levels basement, 288 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.519 a first floor, and a second floor, which is not unusual, 289 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:51.879 but it's built against kind of like a slope. So 290 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:56.039 the entryway there's an entryway off a large parking area 291 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.120 in front. The parking area in front could fit if 292 00:16:58.120 --> 00:16:59.440 you had to squeeze them in, it could fit a 293 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:02.879 dozen cars. It naturally fit six or seven. But you 294 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:05.640 pull up to the house in this big parking way 295 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:08.400 and there's the front door. Well the front door. Really 296 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:11.759 it's unique because you walk in the front, but you 297 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:14.039 have to go up to get to the kitchen. So 298 00:17:14.359 --> 00:17:16.720 I forget what they call that kind of house right now, 299 00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:19.640 but the basically the front door opens into what would 300 00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:23.759 normally be considered the basement of most houses, and that's 301 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:26.119 a parent when you look at the house from the backside, 302 00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:29.119 where what appears to be the first floor is really 303 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:31.599 the second. If you're only looking at it from the rear, 304 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:34.960 you only see two floors. You can tell that there's 305 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:37.359 a third, but you only really are in contact with 306 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.759 two floors. If you're only looking at it from the front, 307 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:41.680 you see all three floors. And so it's a really 308 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:44.799 unique situation in that way. Both floors in the back 309 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:48.200 have points of egress. There's a sliding door you kind 310 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.680 of walk up to the backside. If you were going 311 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.119 around the back, you would walk up a little slope 312 00:17:53.240 --> 00:17:56.559 you would swing around, then you'd see a sliding glass 313 00:17:56.599 --> 00:17:59.680 door that leads into the main living quarters. There's another 314 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:04.480 on the second floor which has theoretically a point of egress, 315 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:06.279 but there's no way down from it. It's just on 316 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:09.119 a little balcony, so theoretically you could climb up to 317 00:18:09.160 --> 00:18:12.279 that fORCH or balcony and get through the slider on 318 00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:14.640 the very top floor, which is actually I said the 319 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:16.480 second floor, but it's actually the second from the back 320 00:18:16.599 --> 00:18:18.240 when you're looking at from the back, but it's technically 321 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:21.240 it's the third floor. Anyway. From the front, you walk 322 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:23.680 in and it's it's an unusual space. You walk in 323 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:26.640 and there are bedrooms to the left and right, and 324 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:29.599 there's like a whottle hall kind of stairwell that takes 325 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:31.920 you up to the main living quarters, and then there's 326 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:35.319 another weird kind of misplaced stairwell kind of thing off 327 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:38.079 to the side because there was an addition at some 328 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:42.559 point to the house, and it's not exactly it doesn't 329 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.240 appear that it would be entirely to code and new 330 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:48.640 construction or anything like that, but it was maybe grandfathered 331 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:52.039 in through certain clauses or whatever. But there's a weird 332 00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:54.599 stairwell and it gets to the top floor. And on 333 00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:59.359 the top floor is where man which is technically the 334 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:04.720 third floor, which is where Maddie and Kaylee had separate bedrooms. 335 00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:10.039 And on the second floor is the kitchen and living area. 336 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:14.480 And to one side of that area was Xana Pernodle's bedroom, 337 00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:16.920 and to the other side of that area on the 338 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:20.160 night of the murders was where Dylan Mortenson was sleeping. 339 00:19:20.279 --> 00:19:24.039 She is surviving victim, survivor, survivor. I call her a 340 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:26.640 surviving victim because she's still suffering through the horrors of this. 341 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:29.759 And then on the bottom on the bottom was Bethany Funk, 342 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:34.160 who was also a survivor of these crimes. But there 343 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:35.680 are two ways of looking at the house. I want 344 00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:37.880 to state this again, because if you're looking at it 345 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:41.160 from the front, you see three floors. If you are 346 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.799 looking at it from the back through a small either 347 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:48.079 from immediately from the back or through a small small 348 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:52.359 grove of woods to an area above that woods where 349 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:56.119 cars to a nearby apartment complex can sometimes park. You 350 00:19:56.119 --> 00:19:58.440 would be looking down through the woods to the rear 351 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:02.480 facing two stories. On the bottom would be a slider 352 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:05.119 that is commonly used by the people who visited that 353 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:07.400 house to get into the house. And on the top 354 00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:10.759 would be a slider that went to Kaylee Gansolvez's bedroom. 355 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.519 And there's no access to the top unless you climb, 356 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.839 but there is access to the second again through that 357 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:23.119 slider that was commonly used in knowing these students and 358 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:27.559 their peers likely often unlocked because that's the way sliders 359 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:31.000 are in these college houses oftentimes because people come and 360 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:34.200 go all the time. And the front door had a keypad, 361 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:37.079 so if you didn't have the key code, or you 362 00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:39.759 didn't feel like typing in the key code or whatever, 363 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.079 you could go around to the slimb up the little 364 00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:44.559 slope from the front and open that slider on the 365 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:47.000 second floor. And that's what it appears a lot of 366 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:47.559 people did. 367 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:49.920 Let's use this as an opportunity to stop for a 368 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:52.240 second to hear these messages. 369 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:55.759 Lucky Land Casino asking people what's the weirdest place you've 370 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:56.799 gotten Lucky. 371 00:20:56.839 --> 00:20:59.240 Lucky in line at the Deli, I guess. 372 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:02.079 Ah and my dead this office more than once. Actually, 373 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:04.519 do I have to say? Yes? You do in the 374 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:06.680 car before my kids PTA meeting? 375 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:07.240 Really? 376 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:10.319 Yes? Excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 377 00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:13.079 I never win? And tell well, there you have it. 378 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:15.920 You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot 379 00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:17.599 com play for free right now? 380 00:21:17.759 --> 00:21:18.720 Are you feeling lucky? 381 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:20.759 No, we're not necessary food for my long eighteen plus 382 00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:22.279 terms conditions of plus what's everytygains? 383 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:27.960 Now, Jay, let's get to November twelfth, twenty twenty two. 384 00:21:28.359 --> 00:21:33.039 Kailey Gunn Salvi and Maddy Mogan are out at the 385 00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:37.799 nearby watering hole called the Corner Club in downtown Moscow, Idaho. 386 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:41.960 And so tell us who are they're with and just 387 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.599 how the evening goes and when they return to King 388 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:45.640 Road that night. 389 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:48.119 Yeah, Kayley and Maddie are out drinking at the little 390 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:51.720 bar that you mentioned. It's a common watering hole for 391 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:57.799 Greek students, meaning fraternity and sorority members and and authers. 392 00:21:57.839 --> 00:21:59.400 I mean, I went to the Corner Club and it's 393 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:02.240 full of just regular day drinkers and whoever during the day, 394 00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:05.359 but at night it was a very collegiate place, and 395 00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:07.880 they're there with some friends. I won't name everybody that 396 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:10.839 they're there with, but I will say one thing, one 397 00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:12.440 person who they were there with, a guy who I'll 398 00:22:12.480 --> 00:22:15.400 just called Jack. They were there with Jack Showalter as well. 399 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:18.359 And he's important because he later gets blamed for these 400 00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:20.279 crimes and it's a horrible thing because he had nothing 401 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:22.799