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Speaker 1: I went down on teta faster that to buy me

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a dunk alcohol.

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Speaker 2: I went down on tafastry, buy me a dunk alcohol.

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Speaker 3: Told the man to put it on wall.

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Speaker 1: Buddy wouldn't put it on drop at all. Man, I'm

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dragging my straight Alcole.

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Speaker 3: Went robbing on down.

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Speaker 1: Thinking about dagging my fad alcohol. But wow, no guy,

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it's JB.

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Speaker 3: Huddle.

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Speaker 1: He used to dance up on tables. He'd stand up

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on fucking tabletops wearing a fucking turquoise fez. I don't

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know it was turquoise. It was shimmery. It was a

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sequin fez. He dump. He jump up on fucking tabletops

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on the south side and he'd play his fucking he'd

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be stringing a guitar with a play it with that

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steel thing. Rested Peace buried in Beautiful Alsip, Illinois, at

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Restville Cemetery. Born in nineteen twenty six at Blackville, Blackville,

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South Carolina, Barnwell County, South Carolina. David, you ain't no good.

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That's a nice song. Fucking eighty three. That guy died.

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That was that was that. Those were the years for

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electric blues in Chicago, like late sixties seventies, it was Uh.

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I always had an aversion to electric blues because I

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always picture growing up in Chicago, especially post Blues Brothers.

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I was so used to seeing Caucasian dads trying to

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trying to emulate it, and it was painful to watch.

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It was really, you know, just no awareness, just you know,

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unable to read the room man. And so I didn't

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like the sound. But then I started listening to like,

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you know what it was. I shoplifted a fucking three

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CD set from a chain bookstore that has since gone

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out of business. Maybe my shoplifting from it drove it

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out of business. I don't know. Anyway, I was fucking young,

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I was like nineteenth and it was called Chicago the

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Blues Today, and it had all this good shit, all

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these electric blues artists, and it had this beat up

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picture of the L tracks, like the elevated subway tracks

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in the snow, and it was such a heartwarming photo.

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I mean, it was a fucking depressing photo because I

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know what those winters used to feel like, with the gray,

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overcast skies and the brown slush stained with diesel exhaust

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and the L tracks all covered in snow. But it

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was a the shit I found on that record was God,

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it was so good. Fuck it was good. JB. Huddle

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was on there anyway, walk up to another episode of

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The Crime Pays About and he does a podcast. I am,

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I'm so tired of hearing the whining. I don't mean

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that I show up. Let me put this a different way.

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I see, the world is dark, it's terrible. There's a

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death cult that I mean, a bunch of people just

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lost their jobs. I don't need to explain to you.

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If you live in the United States especially, you see it.

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And then there's the whole mass extinction, and you know,

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people talk about climate collapse all the time and all

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this shit, but people almost never mentioned habitat loss. I mean,

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it's the amount of land that's just getting cleared for,

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whether it's agriculture or just you know, dumb shit like

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we do here in the United States Texas especially, like

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you know, cul the sack homes that blow over in

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a windstorm before anybody's actually living in them, thank God,

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and that well, I'm sure there's a couple of people

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that wouldn't hurt to get, you know, sandwiched in a

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house that blew over. I'm just saying that's you know,

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especially in a state like Texas, there's some fucking meatheads here.

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There's a lot of wonderful people, but people are very polite,

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but there's a lot of fucking meatheads here. I'm sure

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some of those people are beyond redemption. Like, you're not

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gonna be able to dose all of them, right, They're

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not going to have like a fucking moment of MDMA

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therapy where they're like, oh shit, I've been an asshole.

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Not everyone's gonna do that, you know, and then change

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their behavior. Some people deserve to probably get sandwiched in

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a in a house that's you know, built by underpaid

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labor with cheap lumber that was shipped up from a

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pine plantation in Chile, and uh, you know, is in

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a depressing, fucking neighborhood that paved over a beautiful limestone

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prairie to begin with with, with absolutely no respect for

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any of the things that live there, and no attempt

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to save any to save any. So I don't I

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shouldn't say, I shouldn't say think totally thank god, you know,

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maybe thank god if some people there were some individuals,

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specific individuals who did get sandwiched in a house that

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blue But as it stands, the houses that blew over

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in the windstorm up in Fort Worth, Dallas, that whole cluster.

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Fuck that cement turred in North Texas. No offense to

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anybody who lives there. You know, you gotta be honest.

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Why where you live. I'm not attacking you, just saying

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the infrastructure plan of your area is fucked. But anyway,

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the point is a bunch of houses blew over and

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nobody was injured. But I forget how we got that. Anyway,

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the the fucking point was. The point was it's dark times,

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you know, and politically it's just a fucking mess here.

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The left lost it's mine the last five or six years.

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They're still in denial about it. I mean, it sucks.

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It sucks. It's hard hard to see because they still

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don't get it and they just think that, you know,

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they made it easy for the right to capture the

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population of gullible Americans because it's faced, you know, forty

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years of defunding education in this country. Most your average

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citizen is not too smart, and so they will be

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very easy to go into voting for people that are

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going to fuck them, which is what happened it's what happened.

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I know a couple good people who voted Trump. I

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don't understand why. I don't get it. It's fucking it's

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mind blowing to me. How you could. I mean, it's

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so obvious what they want to do. It's a con

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man sleep. It's like it's like if you get a

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call from someone telling you to put money in a bag,

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you know, pretending to be Like if you're old and

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you get a call from someone pretending to be your

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granddaughter saying, I need you to put this money in

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a bag at the bus stop because I'm my car

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broke down in Southwest Arizona, and this is the only way,

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you know, I met these nice men. They're gonna get

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this money and then wire it to me, and you say, okay,

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I'll do that. It's kind of like that, like you know,

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you know what this guy was gonna do. You know,

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it's you know, these motherfuckers have been wanting to defund

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the government since Reagan. This has been an economic policy

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since the eighties. The government can't do anything right. Okay, Well,

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so you're gonna involve this parasite, this sleazy middleman that's

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gonna fucking extract. Like as he's taking money from point

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A the public to give it to point B to

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provide an essential service, he's gonna skim off the top

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like it's a you didn't like. How is privatizing things

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as opposed to something being run by the government where

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it's strictly regulated. There's still a lot of bullshit that

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goes on. There's a lot of fraud and fucking. You know,

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everyone's trying to skim off that money no matter what,

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because a lot of people that's all they know. They

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just worship money. But I mean, how is a private

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I don't know, the whole public private thing you want

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to putting down? This is like a thing Reagan started

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defund the government so you can give the contracts to

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your private company friends, your corporations that your buddies with

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that have been lobbying for you. That's the other thing.

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Our whole government's bought and paid for by lobbyists, incorporation.

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So everything's just everything's dark, right, I don't need to

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get into it. You know, I've only had half a

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cup of coffees. Still I'm not very lucid. I'm winding

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my way through this fucking the beginning moments of this podcast.

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But the point is, it's dark out there, you know,

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it's it's dark out there for your for your average guy,

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your average gale, your average they them your average uh,

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you know, whatever the fuck you identify as. Anyway, I

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think that was the whole big thing the fucking left

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fuck up to the fike, the fixation on identity. You

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just it's fine if you want to do it, but

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not everyone's gonna understand it, and you're gonna lose a

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large segment of the working class because you're gonna look

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like elitist academics who are talking about all this fucking intersectional,

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settler colonial. The fuck. No, no one's gonna get that

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on the fucking lower rung, and you can't expect them to.

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You got to meet them where they're at. So focus

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on the shit that affects them, right, I'm not giving

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political advice. I hate this shit. I hate thinking about it.

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That's why I focus on plants. But it's just so

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clearly obvious to me what happened. The left loss it's mind.

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They were just incompetent and they just focused on the

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wrong shit. You know, you could you could have those

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those values be a part of your belief system. You

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don't have to make them the central part of fixation.

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And also, I think I dentity is just kind of garbage.

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It only goes so far. It's not the same as

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having social context for history and oppression and stuff like that.

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That's the same thing. They're not the same thing. But anyway,

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what happened happened. You focused on this dumb shit. You

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lost the largest segment of the popular, so who snatched

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them up? The fucking corporate fascists on the other side

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of the oligarchs, and so here we are. That's part

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of what happened. A lot of other shit went down too.

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And if you disagree with me, that's fine. We don't

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have to agree. We could still just listen to the podcast.

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I don't care. I'll still buy you a cup of coffee.

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You don't like what I'm saying. Even if you're one

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of these fucking you know academics that I blame for losing,

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for the left losing the working class, or if you're

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like a Trump persons, we can get along. I don't care.

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That's the other thing. I don't give a fuck what

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you believe. If we disagree, don't talk about it. Don't

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fucking talk about it. It's really simple. Let's talk about

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the shit we do agree on. There was a guy

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who worked with He was a trumper. I loved working

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with him. He was funny as fuck. The minute he

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started talking of his political shit, his fucking talk shows

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that he was getting brainwashed and doctor and with I

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would just shut him down. Now, Chris, I don't want

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to hear it. Man, stop fucking stop. Don't talk about

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that shit at work. Let's go back to making fun

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of the company and stealing overtime. Anyway, So there's dark

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out there. I get it. I believe that, you know.

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I I used to get bad anxiety before I found

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a way to philosophically cope with horrible shit. And I

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still don't have a perfect way. I still let it

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fras on me. But uh, you know, you find what

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you can. You find a philosophical way to deal with it.

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And what helped me the most, besides a ride in

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sense of humor, was was plants. Was was fucking I

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hate this fucking word. I hate the word nature, but

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that was part of what did it. I call it

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the living world because nature sounds corny, and there's a

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there's a corny connotation with the word nature. He pictured

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some blond guy with a fucking acoustic guitar singing you

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kumba ya songs and shit and getting back to nature.

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All this corny shit. You know, it's like a meme.

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It's like a fucking it's just a It's like this subconscious,

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subliminal thing that Americans have in their mind. Maybe it's

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another cultures too, I don't know. I just talk about America,

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but it's it's that's unreal too. It's like the conception

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the popular in the popular mind. In popular culture, the

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idea of nature is fucking corny. It makes me want

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to peel. It's stupid. It's not real. The living world

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is what's real. Native plants are what's real. Why why native?

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Because that's what evolved in the place where you live.

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I've said this a million times. Native plants evolve and

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why plants because they're at the base of everything. They

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literally bridge energy from the sun to the rest of life.

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So the fact that it's been turned into this corny meme,

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even before the word meme existed, is tragic because it

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you lose a lot of people. I feel like the

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word nature's just corny as fuck. The point is when

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when the world is dark and it's all the human world,

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let's be honest with what this is. It's a human world.

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This isn't something outside of humanity. This is the human world.

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What's depressing is other people. It's shit that other people

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have done. It's societies, it's value systems. It's a whole

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death cult that's created by people. It's only human. There's

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a whole other world outside of humans and nobody. So

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few people pay attention to it unless they're studying it,

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or unless they like to go burning. Do you like

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to do you like to go burning? Got a lot

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of flint today? I'm sorry, Or unless you're you know me,

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some crazy fuck who's you know, very obviously looking for

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an escape from things, from things, probably on a spectrum too,

235
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or something little asspy, little ass burgers. No, most people

236
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don't care, they don't think about it, They have no idea.

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I didn't think this. I had no conception of any

238
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of this stuff. I grew up in Chicago just outside

239
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of it. There was nothing around me. My conception of

240
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nature was fucking forest preserves invaded with an understory of

241
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buckthorn invasive buckthorn Ramnus cathartica, terrible plant nitrogen fixing, so

242
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it can it makes its own nitrogen. Well, the bacteria

243
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make it for it, the ectenomicy bacteria in the roots.

244
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But so it takes off, it invades the understories of

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the forest preserve. That was my idea of nature, the

246
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forest preserve where you'd see a creepy, overweight man in

247
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a mini van, probably masturbating in his car in the

248
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parking lot, and then you would and then it was

249
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:52,559
mode fields surrounded by forest with an understory of invasive

250
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buckthorn that was impenetrable and way too many deer and

251
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nothing to eat them. And all the deer had ticks,

252
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so the tick population was huge. And you know, these

253
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forests used to burn two to three years, and of

254
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course that doesn't happen anymore since you know, the genocide

255
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against the Native Americans. So so it's just a fucking

256
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landscape of mismanagement. There was nothing left. Prairie, which used

257
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to be what most of Illinois was, only existed in

258
00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:23,080
a few pockets. I mean, it was like zero point

259
00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:28,360
zero six percent of one percent of the native prairie

260
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was left because when the death cal got there. That

261
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soil was so rich from millions, well thousands of years

262
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of plants growing and dying, growing and dying, and all

263
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,879
that herbaceous material building up that soil, because that's what

264
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prairies are, they are herbaceous perennials. The roots stay alive,

265
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the top dies every year. So you've got this dead

266
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mass that just builds a wonderful soil, especially if it

267
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doesn't burn, made a really nice, a really nice tillage.

268
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And so they took everything and they turned it into

269
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depressing corn plantations, most of which is now by large corporations,

270
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and and and you've got that, and then you've got

271
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the you know, the big box stores and tracked housing

272
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and everything is disconnected from reality. This is entirely make

273
00:16:12,559 --> 00:16:16,360
believe world. It's all bullshit. It didn't exist one hundred

274
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,600
years ago. Most of it didn't even exist forty years ago.

275
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It's all fake. And that's the world we grow up.

276
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And so it's no wonder that so many people looked

277
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,399
at things like video games and porn. Well, not knock

278
00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:29,279
anybody looking at porn, but you know what I mean,

279
00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:34,720
there's a limit, there's like a healthy limit. Drugs was

280
00:16:34,759 --> 00:16:38,639
a big one too, Probably not so much. Well, it depends.

281
00:16:38,679 --> 00:16:40,200
I don't know our people still do it. You see,

282
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I grew up in it. You know, in the Chicago

283
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,039
suburbs in a nineties, a lot of people were doing acid.

284
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:45,320
I think it probably did n'im good. I don't know,

285
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,440
is there's still acid out there? Is that still big

286
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,840
among the suburban youths. I know they could certainly use

287
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,399
some acid down here in Texas once a while, once

288
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,159
in a while. You know, you do acid once every

289
00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,440
three or four years. Hey, you're good, You're fine. And

290
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,039
then some people, well probably just shouldn't do it at

291
00:17:01,039 --> 00:17:03,519
all because they're a little prone to, you know, fits

292
00:17:03,559 --> 00:17:09,200
of psychosis. But that that aside, I had no idea

293
00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:10,720
I was growing up in Chicago. I had no idea

294
00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:14,279
what was native there, or what a native plant was.

295
00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:17,079
There was no connection, there was no baseline, and so

296
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,359
I was just I was pissed off. I was angry.

297
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,319
I was getting into trouble all the time. I was

298
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,680
looking for you know, I liked making art, I liked graffiti,

299
00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,880
I liked all this shit. I liked the adventure. But

300
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,200
I had no context for anything in nature. Yes, I

301
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,400
thought of nature as the corny, fucking blonde guy with

302
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:39,680
the acoustic guitar and just corny sentiments, soft spoken in

303
00:17:39,839 --> 00:17:44,440
fucking vanilla and boring and not just nothing I could

304
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,720
relate to. I was angry, Man, what the fuck am

305
00:17:46,759 --> 00:17:48,079
I gonna do with this? What am I gonna do

306
00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:53,039
with this guy? This emblem that I'm creating is a

307
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:58,079
figment of my imagination, you know, to represent nature in

308
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,519
the popular consciousness of a matrior. In the nineties and

309
00:18:01,559 --> 00:18:05,079
early two thousands, it was nothing. So anyway. Then I

310
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,400
end up in California. I learn about native plants. There's

311
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,000
still a lot of public land accessible there. There's a

312
00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:14,519
lot of wild habitat there. Unlike Illinois, I can go

313
00:18:14,559 --> 00:18:17,440
look at these things. I think they're fucking incredible. It

314
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,799
feels good being out there. Initially, it just feels good

315
00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:21,720
being out there. I don't know what anything is around me.

316
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,960
It just feels good being out there. And then I

317
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,839
start looking around and I see some pretty cool shit.

318
00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,920
When I stop to look, I see things and I wonder,

319
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:34,440
what the fuck is that? What is this red lily

320
00:18:34,599 --> 00:18:37,519
like flower? It's the juicy flower. It's got it's fleshy,

321
00:18:37,559 --> 00:18:41,000
it's fucking big and it's growing out of a fucking rock.

322
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,039
What the fuck is this? What is this thing? This

323
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,160
is weird? Wait, it doesn't look like it should grow here.

324
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,039
It's growing out of a growing out of a rock.

325
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,599
What are these weird What are these weird trees? They

326
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,519
smell incredible, these weird coniferous trees. They're growing out of

327
00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:57,759
an old what I can tell is an old lava flow.

328
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,599
Looks insane. It's giant black boulders that have just you know, uh,

329
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,160
just piled up. Looks like a rubble pile on the

330
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,720
side of this mountain. This stuff is weird. I want

331
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:10,920
to know more about this. This is some weird stuff.

332
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:12,839
I can't stop thinking about it when I come home,

333
00:19:14,079 --> 00:19:15,640
and it just feels good to be out there. And

334
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,680
every time every time I'm in in a city or

335
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,839
around other people, or in you know, the driving to

336
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,279
these spots, through all the billboards and the fucking retail

337
00:19:27,279 --> 00:19:30,359
outlets on the highway. Every time I'm driving through that shit,

338
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:33,279
I want to puke and die. It makes me feel terrible.

339
00:19:33,319 --> 00:19:37,880
It's so ugly, it's gross. I could tell these people

340
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,960
worship money. I like money being coveredable. I don't worship it.

341
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,480
I think it's fucking boring. I don't want a shiny car.

342
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,000
I don't care about this shit. It's fucking stupid and

343
00:19:47,079 --> 00:19:50,200
it feels terrible. I look at the billboard. There's some asshole,

344
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,920
you know who probably gets cosmetic dentistry, probably smells like

345
00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,319
cologne and farts, and there's a he's got a shittying

346
00:19:57,319 --> 00:19:59,920
grin on his face, and it's an ad for something.

347
00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:02,720
It has no relevance to my life at all, but

348
00:20:02,759 --> 00:20:04,960
he's trying to convince me that it does have relevance

349
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,720
to my life because he wants to sell it to me.

350
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,960
Fuck you, get away from me. You're a disease. You're

351
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,839
all diseased. That's what I felt most of my early

352
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,279
years getting into bodany. Before I really got into botany,

353
00:20:17,319 --> 00:20:20,440
I was very misanthropic. I hated everything, and I think

354
00:20:20,519 --> 00:20:24,000
that was a normal, healthy response to something that was sick.

355
00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:29,119
Understand why I'm telling you this, because this is what

356
00:20:30,079 --> 00:20:32,920
this is where we're at now, it's only gotten worse.

357
00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:35,279
The world still makes me want to puke when I

358
00:20:35,279 --> 00:20:37,000
look at the human world, but now I know there's

359
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:39,319
a whole other world out there that makes me want

360
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:42,880
to live and feel good. Why don't you get into that.

361
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:44,839
I try to tell people this. I try to tell

362
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,720
you know, you gotta look at this stuff. You gotta

363
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,440
look closer. If you go out in these places, you're

364
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,720
not feeling good, you're not spending enough time out there,

365
00:20:51,799 --> 00:20:53,160
or you need to get hit on the head or something,

366
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:54,559
or maybe you just need to get those I don't

367
00:20:54,559 --> 00:20:59,839
know where find it. Find someplace. Maybe it's just maybe

368
00:20:59,839 --> 00:21:04,039
it's a fucking state park. Maybe maybe it's a national park.

369
00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:05,799
I don't even like going to national parksing where there's

370
00:21:05,799 --> 00:21:07,880
too many people, there's a fee. You're always getting fucked

371
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,519
with by uh, you know, by the smoke you send there.

372
00:21:12,839 --> 00:21:14,960
Especially if you go to Big Ben. God, the fucking

373
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,599
the cops they are horrible, you know, horrible. They're just

374
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,759
there's they're mole security man. Well actually know Trump probably

375
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:24,839
cut their jobs now, so maybe they're not running anyway.

376
00:21:24,839 --> 00:21:29,000
The point is you go to these places, you know what,

377
00:21:29,759 --> 00:21:32,759
Go to a fucking irrigation ditch near your house, go

378
00:21:32,799 --> 00:21:34,839
to a power lineasement. If you live in one of

379
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,200
these bleak suburbs like around Fort Worth, God, I'd be

380
00:21:39,279 --> 00:21:41,359
so mad if I lived there, if I had to

381
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,160
grow up as a teenager at places like that, I'd

382
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,400
be vandalizing everything. I would have gotten into graffiti a

383
00:21:46,519 --> 00:21:49,119
like age nine. You know, graffiti's fun because you're combining

384
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,960
vandalism with with a creative verge to express. Now, I

385
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,200
will say, a lot of graffiti looks terrible. I'm not

386
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,400
I don't want it on my house, you know. But

387
00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:02,519
as a child, it's it's fun. It's a fun outlet.

388
00:22:04,039 --> 00:22:06,160
You're not just I mean because I liked vandalism when

389
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,720
I was like ten two. We used to go, remember

390
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,759
my friend Chris Jacobs. We went and one time we

391
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:15,279
stole a super soaker and then we stole lighter fluid

392
00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:20,519
like charcoal fluid, and we filled you know what happened.

393
00:22:20,519 --> 00:22:23,359
You know where this is going, right, And we went

394
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,279
and then we just went lighting people's garbage cans. And

395
00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:27,960
I think we actually, I don't think we lit the

396
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,759
garbage cans. I think we mostly just lit the lawn

397
00:22:30,759 --> 00:22:32,880
bags on fire. They had these like three foot tall

398
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,640
bags of brush and leaves, so it was a natural fire.

399
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,759
It was organic fire. But we were just you know,

400
00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:44,319
we went around lighting shit on fire with the facto flamethrower.

401
00:22:44,319 --> 00:22:45,400
We were like ten years old.

402
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:45,680
Speaker 3: It was.

403
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,400
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I'm not saying this was the right

404
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,240
thing to do. I'm just saying it was fun. Chris,

405
00:22:53,279 --> 00:22:55,000
all of a sudden, you know, I all of a sudden,

406
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,880
I hear him say, die you alien bastards. Well it

407
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,000
was more like die you alien bastards. Because he was

408
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,200
ten and I see this huge ten foot flame shoot

409
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,359
up into the air from from behind this person's garage.

410
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,079
He didn't, you know. We were careful not to burn

411
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,920
down any structures. But but that's where we're at. We

412
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,799
were really mad. I was mad as a kid, you know.

413
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,920
I just I knew that there was I didn't. I

414
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,960
knew things were fucked. I just had a feeling. I

415
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,240
couldn't articulate anything I was. I was an idiot, of course,

416
00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:30,880
but still I knew things were fucked. So anyway, I'm

417
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,039
not saying you should go do vandalism. Well, if you

418
00:23:33,039 --> 00:23:35,599
live in a cul de Sac suburb of Fort Worth,

419
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,000
maybe you should. Maybe that's a constructive outlet, but you

420
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,880
should also be learning and reading and teaching yourself something.

421
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:48,680
Don't be a jackasses. They have fucking video games. So anyway, uh,

422
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:50,920
you know, you gotta keep your mind exercise. That's all

423
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,599
I'm saying. In video games, don't do it. Go do

424
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,920
you know, go do whatever once in a while. It's fine,

425
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,160
but you got to read up on something, find something

426
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,480
you're passionate about. Fine would drives anyway. So the point is,

427
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,440
just go outside and start paying attention to what you see.

428
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,440
Go outside to areas that don't get mode, where there's

429
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:08,799
not a lot of people. If it's just a power

430
00:24:08,839 --> 00:24:11,440
line thesemen, or a drainage dish again, fucking side of

431
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,119
the railroad tracks wherever. If you live in Texas, you're

432
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,079
kind of fuck because there's no public land whatever. I mean.

433
00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:19,799
Go to state parks if you need to whatever. Just

434
00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:22,119
go out there so you can get away from people

435
00:24:22,519 --> 00:24:24,480
and clear your head. That's all I was doing at first.

436
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:26,880
I used to I would just I was just hiking around.

437
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,039
I didn't even like the word hiking at the time

438
00:24:29,319 --> 00:24:31,400
because it made me think of ARII honkys, you know

439
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,400
what I mean, hiking. I'm gonna go hiking. I didn't lie.

440
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,240
I was gonna go take a walk in a nice spot,

441
00:24:37,559 --> 00:24:41,440
a nice spot, it's nice, it's nice. I was just

442
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,119
gonna go take a walk. And I started doing that more,

443
00:24:44,319 --> 00:24:46,599
and it felt good. And I started doing it more

444
00:24:46,599 --> 00:24:48,240
and it felt good. And then I started looking for

445
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,079
very specific things. I'm gonna go look for this certain

446
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:52,759
tree that I heard is supposed to be here. That's

447
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:55,839
kind of cool, very specific things. Then I started paying

448
00:24:55,839 --> 00:24:58,519
attention to more stuff when things slowed down. When I

449
00:24:58,599 --> 00:25:00,799
slowed down, my mind slowed down, I could start looking

450
00:25:00,839 --> 00:25:04,039
at other things in these nice places. The place just

451
00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:05,799
felt really good. I wanted to learn more about it

452
00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:08,559
felt really good to be out there. Really kept really

453
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,200
kept the puke down from when I was driving by

454
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,400
the retail outlets, or the billboards, or the culdest acts

455
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:19,160
or or endless traffic jams of cars on I eighty.

456
00:25:20,319 --> 00:25:22,559
But the more that I was able to slow down

457
00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:26,240
and take a closer look, and then especially take pictures

458
00:25:26,279 --> 00:25:28,240
of it. You got you got all got these fucking

459
00:25:28,279 --> 00:25:30,799
cameras in our pocket. Take a picture of it. Take

460
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:33,519
a picture of what you see. It's interesting. Take a

461
00:25:33,559 --> 00:25:34,880
picture of you don't know what it is, Take a

462
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,240
picture of it. Take a couple of pictures of it.

463
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,319
Pay attention to what it's. What's it doing?

464
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:42,039
Speaker 3: He is?

465
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: What's it is?

466
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 3: It? Just? Is it? Flower?

467
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,400
Speaker 1: What is this what is this part of the plant?

468
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,400
What is this thing? What does this do? Just start

469
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,960
thinking about it. You just start thinking about what you're

470
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,000
looking at. Just start observing. And the more I started

471
00:25:56,039 --> 00:25:57,880
doing that, the more I started to learn. And then

472
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:00,319
everything I would learn. Every time I would learn so thing,

473
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,799
I'd have ten more questions, and it just became it

474
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,960
just started to become so interesting. It was like one

475
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,440
of those fucking trick photos that you know that you'll

476
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,519
see on social media sometimes, like a bullshit clickbait site,

477
00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:16,880
where it's like a bunch of dots and you look

478
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,279
at it doesn't look like anything, but the caption says,

479
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,400
stare at this for thirty seconds, and then you know,

480
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,880
close your eyes or something, and then there's some you know,

481
00:26:26,599 --> 00:26:28,839
some visual effect or whatever the fuck or you or

482
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,759
suddenly like you can see a photo within this image

483
00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:34,720
that just that first looks like a bunch of blurry dots.

484
00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:36,359
That's the same thing that started to happen to me.

485
00:26:36,759 --> 00:26:39,920
I started to see more stuff that I didn't see

486
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,119
at first. Then it became fascinating, and then I became

487
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,559
addicted to it, and I started going, Okay, I'm starting

488
00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:48,880
to get what this is about. Now, and I learned

489
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,039
that in California, and then I came back to Chicago

490
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,839
one time, thinking, well, I learned what the idea of

491
00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:00,200
a native plant is. I wonder what native plant it's

492
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,440
We're in Chicago, Chicago area must have had its own

493
00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:08,039
native plants, right, This is like twenty fifteen, maybe fourteen.

494
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:12,440
And then I looked it, looked it up on the

495
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,200
interweb and there was a side I think it was

496
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,279
like Illinois wildflowers. I hate that term two wild flowers.

497
00:27:19,319 --> 00:27:22,119
It's a wild flower. It doesn't mean anything. It's a wildflower.

498
00:27:22,759 --> 00:27:25,039
You get wildflower seed packets that have a bunch of

499
00:27:25,039 --> 00:27:28,240
invasive European garbage in it. Again, it's this idea of

500
00:27:28,279 --> 00:27:31,359
just planting for beauty. It's it's attractive, it's an attractive

501
00:27:31,839 --> 00:27:36,200
Fuck that, fuck all of that. It's beautiful. What does

502
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,000
that mean? Doesn't mean anything? What does that mean? It's

503
00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:41,480
Pretty's shut up. That's not the point. It's not the

504
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,440
point that it's pretty. It's it's what's its role in

505
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,079
its living machine? All this shit's connected? How did this evolve?

506
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,519
What else is it related to? What does it have

507
00:27:51,599 --> 00:27:56,480
relationships with that live here, whether it's insects or or

508
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,720
fungi or bird whatever, like, there's certain species fungi that

509
00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:06,440
specialized on a certain type of species of trees. Duff. Like,

510
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:10,440
that's a fascinating thing, right, that fungi had to evolve

511
00:28:10,759 --> 00:28:17,240
a certain enzyme to break down the volatile oils that

512
00:28:17,559 --> 00:28:25,880
are otherwise fungi resistant in this certain conifers foliage. Perfect example.

513
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,559
There's a million cases like that, and they're probably right

514
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:30,920
underneath your feet, they're right under your nose, they're all

515
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,799
around you in what little bits of habitat are left.

516
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,480
So I came back to Chicago. I was looking for

517
00:28:37,559 --> 00:28:39,720
native plants, and then I learned about the prairies and

518
00:28:39,759 --> 00:28:42,480
it fucking blew my mind. And I just realized how

519
00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:45,960
much diversity there used to be and how cool it was.

520
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:48,079
And there were, you know, the prairies were these dense

521
00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:52,880
thickets of fifty different species, well maybe thirty or forty,

522
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,599
I don't know. Not that man. It wasn't hyperdent hyper diverse,

523
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,599
but it was hyperdense. And then there were all these

524
00:28:59,599 --> 00:29:02,839
special list insects and different bees and moths and shit

525
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,759
that only ate a certain type of plant, and then

526
00:29:06,599 --> 00:29:10,079
those in turn fed, you know, right up the food

527
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,359
chain a bunch of different birds, and the prairie is

528
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,200
also cooling the land. I could feel how much cooler

529
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,759
it felt on a summer night, and you know how

530
00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:23,519
pleasant it smelled, and how wonderful it sounded with all

531
00:29:23,519 --> 00:29:27,400
the singing insects at dusk. And then I realized that

532
00:29:27,559 --> 00:29:29,759
so much had been destroyed, and I was pissed. I was,

533
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,960
you know, this got destroyed to put up this shit,

534
00:29:33,039 --> 00:29:35,720
the retail outlets and the billboard with the smiling prick

535
00:29:35,759 --> 00:29:40,839
on it, really fucking morons. Who would do that? So

536
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,559
then I was like, I got to start putting more

537
00:29:43,599 --> 00:29:45,079
of this out there. I gotta start planting more of

538
00:29:45,119 --> 00:29:47,880
And that's what you should do too. Learn about this stuff.

539
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,319
The best way to show respect for something is to

540
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,359
learn about it. And I tell people to, I say,

541
00:29:54,839 --> 00:29:57,519
go out and look at these things. Nature is the answer.

542
00:29:57,599 --> 00:29:59,640
I fucking hate the word nature, but I got to

543
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:01,000
say it so other people aren't going to know what

544
00:30:01,119 --> 00:30:04,319
I mean when I say the living world, the non

545
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,839
human world, the non bullshit world. The human world's fake.

546
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,119
It's bullshit, it's all bullshit. It didn't exist. This world

547
00:30:12,119 --> 00:30:15,119
that we've created right now, this specific world, this didn't

548
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,359
this didn't exist five hundred There were fucking personal injury

549
00:30:18,359 --> 00:30:24,079
attorneys five hundred years ago, or plastic surgeons or car salesman,

550
00:30:24,079 --> 00:30:27,079
any of the shit. No, it's all fake. And I say,

551
00:30:27,079 --> 00:30:28,359
look at the living world. I don't know what they

552
00:30:28,359 --> 00:30:30,319
think I mean, and they think I mean I learn

553
00:30:30,359 --> 00:30:34,480
about it, Learn about it, study it, ask questions, look hard.

554
00:30:34,519 --> 00:30:38,000
If it's confusing to you, figure out what you're confused about,

555
00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:40,519
and then try to answer that question. Fucking write me

556
00:30:40,519 --> 00:30:42,920
an email. I don't care. I'll answer if I got time.

557
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,319
I'll keep it short. I'll probably use voice to text.

558
00:30:45,359 --> 00:30:48,359
It'll be filled with you know, uh, grammatical errors, and

559
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:50,640
might get a wrong word in there too, because you know,

560
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,599
the voice detect technology is not what it should be,

561
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,400
especially when I'm screaming at it. But write me an email.

562
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,559
What do you think? What do you think it means?

563
00:30:59,599 --> 00:31:02,400
Go out and commune with nature. Go forest bathe go

564
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,920
you think I mean go forest, But don't go fuck that.

565
00:31:05,559 --> 00:31:08,480
Don't go forest? What is forest bathing? It's a corny

566
00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:12,759
asque word. Go out there and observe it, directly, observe it,

567
00:31:12,839 --> 00:31:16,160
pay attention to it. Ask questions, what the fuck is

568
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,079
this take a take pictures of it and and focus

569
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,640
on that, and it'll take your mind off all the negative,

570
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,160
dark shit that the other bipedal primates around you are

571
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:33,039
putting out into the world. When nature attacks you, when nature,

572
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:39,960
when nature kills you, it's nothing personal, and it's it's

573
00:31:40,039 --> 00:31:44,119
it's you know, it's not the same as when a

574
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:49,359
person does it. It's not the same. There's no there's

575
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,160
not as much darkness attached to it. I mean, I

576
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,880
can think of some terrible ways to go out without

577
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,039
the aid of human hands. But but still it's I'm

578
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,720
just saying it's it's a much different flavor. And when

579
00:32:02,759 --> 00:32:05,480
you start looking at the world outside of people, you

580
00:32:05,519 --> 00:32:10,359
realize how much bigger it is. And you also realize

581
00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:14,880
how much you can actually do to change the world

582
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:21,000
around you, just by by planting things, by spending time

583
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,480
around these things, by gassing them up, by hyping them,

584
00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:27,920
by letting other people know that they're there. We evolved

585
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:33,319
with these things, with these living things. We evolved interacting

586
00:32:33,359 --> 00:32:36,079
with them. This isn't This isn't a recent This isn't

587
00:32:36,079 --> 00:32:40,480
fucking environmentalism, this is these aren't corny sentiments, This isn't

588
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,079
the blonde guy and with the acoustic guitar, singing soft

589
00:32:44,119 --> 00:32:48,799
folk tunes, afraid to show anger or fucking you know,

590
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,359
throw shit. That's saying you should throwshit. But you know

591
00:32:53,359 --> 00:32:59,240
what I mean, This isn't this isn't that. This is

592
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,119
what we evolved with. This is what for two hundred

593
00:33:02,119 --> 00:33:04,319
thousand years? How what's the age of the human species

594
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,880
as we exist now? Probably two hundred thousand years, maybe

595
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,440
a little bit longer. I always thought it was two

596
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,160
million years, but I looked the new reason, I think

597
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,000
as like two hundred thousand. But again, what are the

598
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:18,799
metrics that they're basing that on, and what's considered a

599
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,079
human human Homo sapien. I don't know, maybe two hundred

600
00:33:21,079 --> 00:33:24,559
thousan years. It's very short amount of time actually, But

601
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:30,160
for most of that time, we were directly interacting with plants,

602
00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:33,359
and we all we grew up knowing the names of

603
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,519
them and using them. We can get back to that.

604
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,359
We let you know, technology made us a little arrogant.

605
00:33:43,039 --> 00:33:45,839
There was also you know, separating people from their land,

606
00:33:46,359 --> 00:33:48,599
which occurred both in Europe and here. You know, the

607
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:53,039
feudal system, hierarchy, some prick at the top enslaves everybody

608
00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:55,880
forces them off their land, takes all their shit, turns

609
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,039
them into peasants and surfs. They're the whole thing too.

610
00:34:00,599 --> 00:34:02,759
That was I mean, that was I think key in

611
00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:08,920
kind of severing us from the living world. But technology

612
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,320
certainly further kind of enables it. But it doesn't need

613
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:17,519
to anyway. The point is, it's only recently that we've

614
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,400
become so estranged from these things, and now we just

615
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:26,280
ignore them and we disregard them, and we directly disrespect them,

616
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,679
and we wipe them away with the brush of a

617
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:34,400
hat or a bucket of a bulldozer, thinking it's nothing.

618
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,559
That is, who gives a shit? This isn't weird? What's

619
00:34:36,599 --> 00:34:39,280
this stuff? What's this stuff? Is a bunch of brush.

620
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:42,920
It's a bunch of it's a bunch of bushes. It's

621
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,559
it's just brush. Fucking ignorant statements.

622
00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 3: Man.

623
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: The roots are holding the land together, preventing erosion, sucking

624
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,480
up moisture, preventing flooding, preventing runoff, also cooling the land.

625
00:34:55,599 --> 00:35:00,199
Plants our nature's swamp cooler. You got a apple, transpirational cooling.

626
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,159
Not to mention all the life that they support. I've

627
00:35:05,199 --> 00:35:07,679
seen this with all the lawns I've killed. I've killed

628
00:35:07,679 --> 00:35:13,559
probably thirty five lawns now. I mean, there was something

629
00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:16,880
for that stupid TV show which they took down. They

630
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,239
took down off YouTube. Someone needs to go pirate it.

631
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,039
I don't think anybody from birth x is even listening

632
00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:27,920
to my podcast, thank god, but if they were, I

633
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,400
guess I'm okay with saying go pirate it. Somebody else

634
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,079
pirate it and put it up on YouTube, and then

635
00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:34,840
it got shut down. And I had like a two

636
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,760
minute segment that earth X said I could put up

637
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,519
on the Crime Pays YouTube and that got flagged with

638
00:35:40,599 --> 00:35:44,239
copyright too. I could probably get it, okay, but I

639
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,880
don't even want to bother trying to write someone at

640
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,280
earth x, a small scale cable network that was really

641
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,320
a billionaire's pet project, and I think, is are they

642
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:58,000
still around her? They go under they don't know what

643
00:35:58,039 --> 00:35:59,960
they're doing. They don't know what they're doing over there.

644
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,800
They were gonna stream, and then they decided to sell

645
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,639
their content to a cable network because they wanted to

646
00:36:06,639 --> 00:36:10,599
make sure nobody could watch it, and of course that

647
00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:13,199
didn't work out for them because nobody had access to

648
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:16,480
their content and could see what they were doing so

649
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,639
they got you know, they got a quick buck in

650
00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:24,000
the in the form of that sale to cable channel

651
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,159
two sixty seven. Help, I'll remember the channel to sixties.

652
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,840
I'll be sure to tune in versus if you could

653
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,000
just go to a website and stream it. Fucking idiotic move.

654
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,760
But uh, anyway, but kill your Lawn was on YouTube,

655
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:41,079
but it's not. I don't think it is anymore. But

656
00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:42,639
someone needs to pirate it. Maybe you could do a

657
00:36:42,679 --> 00:36:45,480
torrent of it. Anyway, I've killed a bunch of lawns,

658
00:36:45,519 --> 00:36:48,679
and I've done a bunch of just friends lawns. You know.

659
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:51,679
I had like a friend who like to a friend

660
00:36:51,679 --> 00:36:54,239
that was a couple. They got four kids. One works

661
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,519
in a coffee shop, the other's a school teacher. They

662
00:36:56,519 --> 00:36:58,280
don't have money for this shit. Said, fuck it, I

663
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,440
want I just want to. I walk by your house.

664
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,679
You've watched my dogs when I go out of town

665
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,360
sometimes and i'm and my kid plays with your kid.

666
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,639
I'm just gonna kill your fucking lawn. Just rent, just

667
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,639
rent the sod cutter and I'll do the rest. I'll

668
00:37:11,639 --> 00:37:14,639
get all the plants whatever. And so I did. I

669
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,000
killed that lawn. I've killing another lawn on the other

670
00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:21,480
side of town. I've done that. I've done that alone

671
00:37:21,519 --> 00:37:25,000
probably a dozen and a half times, which I really

672
00:37:25,039 --> 00:37:26,679
shouldn't be. I don't have time for this shit, but

673
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,920
I like doing it. You could do that too, if

674
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,440
you get time. Even just planting like a little patch

675
00:37:33,559 --> 00:37:38,719
it like a six x eight patch of native plants,

676
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,639
like native herbaceous perennials, shrubby shit, or you know, stuff

677
00:37:43,639 --> 00:37:46,159
where the roots stay alive in the tops eyes though

678
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,800
that's an actual herbasious perennial. The tops die every year.

679
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,480
Do that in your yard or someone else's. If you

680
00:37:51,519 --> 00:37:53,880
don't have a yard, just be collecting seeds and sprinkling

681
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,679
them along fence lines, go out and start planting shit.

682
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,679
Then you know, if you just what I was doing

683
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:03,599
last week, I was taking a gave pups and just

684
00:38:03,639 --> 00:38:07,480
planting them along fence lines near my house, taking advantage

685
00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:10,800
of a light rain that we had to get these

686
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:15,039
things established. And that'll work. A gaves are succulent that

687
00:38:15,079 --> 00:38:17,559
can sit tight while it's dry and then grow. And

688
00:38:17,559 --> 00:38:19,639
then my benefit is a year or two from now,

689
00:38:19,679 --> 00:38:22,559
I get to see these massive things, you know, taking

690
00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:25,000
up the fence. I get more plants around, I directly

691
00:38:25,039 --> 00:38:28,639
get to enjoy shit that I planted. It's not my property.

692
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:31,599
It might get fucked, it might get ripped up by

693
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:34,239
some you know, moron, or just by some landscaper. It

694
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:36,880
doesn't know any bed in that landscaper. But like land maintenance,

695
00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:40,639
a land maintenance technician who doesn't know any better, you

696
00:38:40,679 --> 00:38:44,280
could do this too. This isn't hard. I know, it's

697
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,280
much easier to just sulk and say everything's fucked and wine.

698
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,559
I'm not going to disagree with you. Everything is fucked.

699
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,800
I mean, you learn about geologic timeskill, you realize that

700
00:38:55,599 --> 00:38:57,639
it's not as fucked as it was sixty six million

701
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,920
years ago. That was That was That was an unpleasant day,

702
00:39:01,039 --> 00:39:04,480
you know, when that six kilometer wide comet came down

703
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:11,480
and hit the You contain the you contain. But you

704
00:39:11,519 --> 00:39:13,480
could do this? Why not? What else you doing? You

705
00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:16,199
work in It's fine. Steal time from your employer. Learn

706
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,199
about this stuff. Steal time and just peruse I naturalist

707
00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:24,239
and look for look for what plants grow around you,

708
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,599
learn about them and learn about taxonomy. You got a family,

709
00:39:27,639 --> 00:39:29,679
you got a genus? Why is that cool? Co Because

710
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:34,679
everything's related in a family and they display similar characteristics,

711
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,719
like flower shape. You learn to identify what flower, what

712
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:41,519
the what the prototype flower is for a certain family,

713
00:39:41,559 --> 00:39:43,280
and every family has one. Then you can learn to

714
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:45,880
identify the plants. You could see a new plant and

715
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,800
see the flower, see the flower structure, and say, I

716
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,920
know this is a mustard, I know this is brassic casey,

717
00:39:53,199 --> 00:39:56,199
or I know this is astoracy. Why is that helpful?

718
00:39:56,199 --> 00:39:57,559
Because then when you want to learn what the fuck

719
00:39:57,559 --> 00:39:59,320
you're looking at, you can go on a naturalists and

720
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,760
just type in my area, my county, whatever, and look

721
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:04,920
up astracy and get a list of everything that grows

722
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,639
in that family. It's been documented there. Learn about the

723
00:40:08,679 --> 00:40:11,920
things around you. This isn't hard. I did it. I'm

724
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,719
a jackass. I did it. I didn't go to school

725
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,360
for this stuff. Anybody could do this. Learn about it.

726
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,320
I don't go forrest baite. What does that mean? Just

727
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:23,679
go take a walk somewhere nice, and once shit cools

728
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,679
down and you feel a little bit better, start paying

729
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,280
attention to where you are. That's all it takes. Okay,

730
00:40:30,039 --> 00:40:31,400
Now you just got to go out there and do

731
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,880
it anyway. It turns out shooting pigs is a lot

732
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:40,239
harder than you might think getting these things. This guy

733
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:43,199
came out to thorn scrubb yesterday. He had a thermal drone,

734
00:40:43,559 --> 00:40:45,800
which was a real eye opener for me. I said, wow,

735
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,559
you know, especially at night, once the sun goes down,

736
00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:54,039
the land cools off. Anything that's alive, any like any

737
00:40:54,159 --> 00:40:59,280
vertebrate is comes up as bright white on an otherwise

738
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,239
dark gray background. Like we were like looking at rabbits.

739
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,960
You could see bunnies from three hundred feet above them,

740
00:41:08,159 --> 00:41:10,599
and they appear as like this bright white speck. It's

741
00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:14,360
crazy the thermal imaging. It's like a six thousand dollars

742
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,880
droney head. But we were looking for pigs. We wanted

743
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:22,199
to see where they're hiding because they've been destroying so much.

744
00:41:22,559 --> 00:41:25,360
This is really a huge problem down here in South

745
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,119
Texas because you can it's easy to see how quickly

746
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,639
they can denude an area of the species of plants

747
00:41:34,639 --> 00:41:37,360
that they're uprooting, like in our case, this really rare

748
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:42,519
plant called Mammillaria spherica, which doesn't have it's got big

749
00:41:42,599 --> 00:41:47,480
juicy roots, almost peyote like roots, but the top of

750
00:41:47,559 --> 00:41:49,920
the plant is covered in spines. You can't touch it.

751
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,960
But what they do is they uproot it and then

752
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,880
they chew on, They chew on the roots, eat the roots,

753
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,480
and then just leave the thing to die. And you

754
00:41:59,519 --> 00:42:02,440
could see how I mean these things. You know, people

755
00:42:02,519 --> 00:42:04,400
hunt them and stuff, but there's so many of them.

756
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,360
They breathe like rats. So you'll shoot one and then

757
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,039
the twelve that are with it get away and don't

758
00:42:10,039 --> 00:42:13,800
come back to your property, to your land for another month.

759
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,599
And meanwhile they're just out there destroying everything. The only

760
00:42:17,639 --> 00:42:19,760
shit that's safe is anything that's got a tall fence.

761
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,800
So now we're raising money for a tall fence, but

762
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,320
thorn scrub is like got a three mile circumference. It's

763
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,760
gonna cost twenty five grand to totally fence. You don't

764
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,880
need a tall fence, but four foot tall, you know,

765
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,239
not just barbed wire four foot tall. So the deer

766
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,960
can still jump in, but the pigs can't get through.

767
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,159
And uh, you know, you sink it like you don't

768
00:42:43,159 --> 00:42:46,400
gotta go super deep, and they can still dig if

769
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,000
they want to, Like, if they're gonna they're gonna have

770
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,719
to put some work into it. But but then you

771
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,760
just you're monitoring the thing. You can see where they're

772
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,960
digging and then just repair it and also set up

773
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:58,599
a trail cam. There, we got it. We got a

774
00:42:58,639 --> 00:43:02,480
trail cam, We got a pig brig. We raised money

775
00:43:02,519 --> 00:43:05,239
to get a pig brig. This this certain type of trap.

776
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,159
I tried to write pig Brig and asked them if

777
00:43:08,159 --> 00:43:10,280
they would be down to do like a sponsorship if

778
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,320
I did a video and they took one look at

779
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:17,239
the channel and they were like, no, no, we're wait wait,

780
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,519
that's not very that's not our flavor. You know, they're

781
00:43:20,559 --> 00:43:23,599
they're gentle, they're from the South. They're gentle, they're from

782
00:43:23,639 --> 00:43:27,760
the South. They're genteels, gentilly, they're from you know, they're

783
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,960
they're they're not They don't want any association with crime PAGs,

784
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,840
which I can understand sometimes I don't want any association

785
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,440
with myself either. But they didn't want They were not

786
00:43:38,519 --> 00:43:40,880
into a sponsorship. So we had we had the they

787
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:43,880
wouldn't they They didn't even give us a discount. And

788
00:43:44,119 --> 00:43:46,719
the lady wouldn't even write me back either, like Ambusher

789
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,719
with a phone call on her office just to be

790
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,599
not I was very polite, but I was, Oh, I

791
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,719
just wanted to know were you uh, you know, because

792
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,320
when I first spoke to her. She sounded so enthusiastic,

793
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,440
this is great, and then she took and look at

794
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:05,079
the channel, and the enthusiasm just it just went down

795
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:07,679
like uh, you know, like water flushed out of a toilet,

796
00:44:09,079 --> 00:44:12,400
out of a vault toilet. Anyway, we got the we

797
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,039
got the pig brig out there, we got we shot

798
00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:19,440
one of them, but it ran off. I think it

799
00:44:19,559 --> 00:44:22,400
ran off to die somewhere. I hope it's dead. I

800
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,599
don't know. I really hate these things. They've destroyed so

801
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,440
much habitat. And you know, we'll we walk into the land.

802
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:33,079
We find plants, mostly this mammalaria sphere good has been uprooted.

803
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,079
And then you realize this has been going on for

804
00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:42,639
a decade, and you realize how much more there probably was,

805
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,320
and it's all gone, and no one's keeping tabs on

806
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,480
these things, and there's like, you know, the rednecks down

807
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,920
here shoot the mountain lions too, so the only predator

808
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:54,639
they would offer any hope of killing these things besides people,

809
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,199
uh is is rare down here as well. So there's

810
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,159
no checks on these things. There's no checks except them

811
00:45:03,159 --> 00:45:06,360
getting shot once in a while by a hunter. But

812
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,239
you know, so it's it's a fuck situation. So we

813
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,199
had this aerial drone. We were trying to see where

814
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,679
they go during the day, because they come out at night.

815
00:45:14,679 --> 00:45:16,800
They come out at like two in the morning, and

816
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,000
then during the day they're probably hiding by a water

817
00:45:19,079 --> 00:45:23,159
source or in thick brush. But it's been so drought

818
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,960
stricken down here that they like, like I said, like

819
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,320
I showed them a video I put up on a

820
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,880
on a YouTube a few months ago, they're even going

821
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,519
for peyote. They don't. They'll take a bite out of

822
00:45:35,559 --> 00:45:39,159
it and uproot it and destroy it huge clumps, but

823
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:43,039
then and then just leave it to die. Uh but

824
00:45:43,639 --> 00:45:48,239
you know, it's it's very bitter, so they don't. They don't.

825
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,880
They just destroy it basically don't even really eat it.

826
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,039
Whereas the Mammalaria spherica has those big juicy roots, but

827
00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:57,199
it doesn't have those those alkaloids in it, those bitter alkaloids,

828
00:45:57,199 --> 00:46:01,440
because all alkaloids are bitter, and so they'll they'll just

829
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,280
with the With the mam spherica, they can actually eat

830
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,159
the roots, and that's been a hot item. So the

831
00:46:07,199 --> 00:46:09,639
only ones that are left are those that are surrounded

832
00:46:09,679 --> 00:46:12,280
by like a cage of blackbrush stems, you know, because

833
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:16,320
black brush for Chelli rigidula gets it's like a multi

834
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:21,639
stemmed leg humanous shrub. It's all blooming right now too.

835
00:46:21,639 --> 00:46:24,119
It's most really good. It's all blooming despite the drought.

836
00:46:24,559 --> 00:46:28,079
It's so fucking dry. It's brutal like everything. Some stuff,

837
00:46:28,159 --> 00:46:31,440
some of the shrubs we're seeing, like snake eyes Texas

838
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:34,760
snake eyes follow famous some of those. I saw some

839
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,119
snake eyes yesterday. It didn't even look drought dormant, because

840
00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:40,119
a lot of this stuff just goes drought dormant. It

841
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,599
just looked dead like it just looked like it died.

842
00:46:42,679 --> 00:46:46,039
Like we need like a good soaking rain. And there's

843
00:46:46,079 --> 00:46:48,360
fog out there every morning because it's so humid. It's

844
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,960
South Texas. Member it's not really desert, it's it's thorn

845
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,840
thorn scrub. But uh god, I just hope we get rain.

846
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,800
It was so lush there the first time I saw

847
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,360
this land was so lush, and the cicadas were out

848
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:05,320
and sounded like psychedelic, and the miskeait was all green.

849
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,719
It was such a beautiful piece of property. And then

850
00:47:09,119 --> 00:47:12,280
six months of a rough summer and drought and pig

851
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,880
damage just really fucked it. So hopefully we can get

852
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,679
it back up and running. But we're getting a shade

853
00:47:17,679 --> 00:47:20,400
structure built, which is exciting. We'll actually have a place

854
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,599
to hide from the brutal sun which is coming. Man,

855
00:47:24,639 --> 00:47:27,840
it's coming like April. It's gonna be out there, and

856
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:32,719
it's just fucking miserable every day. I mean, it's really

857
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,039
nice in the mornings, it's like eighty degrees at six am,

858
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,840
but then by one pm it's one hundred and five

859
00:47:40,039 --> 00:47:43,320
and you can't be outside without just like sweating and

860
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:50,400
melting and it feels very uncomfortable. So anyway, but were

861
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,760
trying to find these pigs, and I think again, at

862
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,880
some point, we're just gonna fence the whole thing, which

863
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,440
is again gonna be probably twenty five, which sucks. It's

864
00:48:01,519 --> 00:48:04,559
just this is an expensive project, but uh, you know

865
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,400
that's why we got the the nonprofit status. So uh,

866
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:12,679
hopefully we can get grants or something. I don't have

867
00:48:12,679 --> 00:48:14,320
time to write grants. I don't know shit about this.

868
00:48:14,559 --> 00:48:16,760
How do you write a grant? How do you do this?

869
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:18,599
I don't want to do that. Stuff that doesn't sound

870
00:48:18,679 --> 00:48:21,719
but you go beg beg organizations for money. Yeah, I'm

871
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:27,119
sure in an age when the federal government is firing everybody,

872
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,360
because that's been their plan all along, Fire it and

873
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,159
give it, give it aver to the private sector. And

874
00:48:33,199 --> 00:48:35,599
if you fire people, then that means you can there's

875
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:37,760
less money that you have to spend, which means you

876
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,320
can give more tax cuts to the rich pricks who

877
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,840
helped get you elected too. So that's another benefit of

878
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,039
cutting all these federal jobs. I mean, sure, you might

879
00:48:47,079 --> 00:48:51,920
be making your pop your population dumber, and make sure

880
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:56,280
they have less access access to science and to national

881
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,199
parks and nature and all the nice things that some

882
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,639
people and other world countries have. We can't have those

883
00:49:02,679 --> 00:49:05,760
in America because we have these rich pricks that own

884
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:10,039
everything and run everything. And also because the left fumbled,

885
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:14,400
the left fumbled so bad, got away from working class

886
00:49:14,559 --> 00:49:17,440
issues and just focused on all this identity bullshit. I'm

887
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,880
so mad at that, man. I mean, and you know, whatever,

888
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,400
say whatever you will, it's not even about the issue itself,

889
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,280
the identity stuff. It's not even like whether I agree disagree.

890
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,199
It was just so fucking dumb. It was so tone deaf,

891
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,079
and it is It's like you have to live in

892
00:49:31,119 --> 00:49:34,360
a bubble to think that shit is gonna fly with

893
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,719
working class people. And I'm not talking about just standing

894
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,559
up for people's rights. I'm talking about pushing it so hard.

895
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:43,920
I'm talking about making it central to everything I'm talking about,

896
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:47,800
you know, expecting, you know, some working class schmuck to

897
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:54,119
know what words like intersectional mean, intersectional, non binary, pan sexual, disabled,

898
00:49:54,679 --> 00:49:59,719
chronically ill. I mean, people know what chronically disabled means.

899
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,239
But you you know what I mean, the whole shit

900
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:07,000
that there's just this fucking focus on settler colonialism, you know,

901
00:50:07,119 --> 00:50:09,280
the you know, I mean, who the fuck talks like this,

902
00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:14,840
Like Jesus Christ man, I just and I would hear it,

903
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,119
and it was so obvious when you'd see these stupid

904
00:50:17,159 --> 00:50:20,400
posts on social media using all these words, going back

905
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:22,679
and forth, and it was just it was I felt

906
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,519
like I was watching the effect of people farting into

907
00:50:25,559 --> 00:50:27,679
a wineglass and sniffing it like the same thing.

908
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,519
Speaker 2: Like we're part of this club. We know what all

909
00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:32,519
these words mean. We've been educated in the social sciences

910
00:50:32,519 --> 00:50:36,280
and humanities, and God, just shut up, man, Just focus

911
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,840
on getting people health care and education and preventing them

912
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,360
from getting fucked by the oligarchs.

913
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,880
Speaker 1: Just focus on those all this other shit. I'm not

914
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,880
saying you don't have to focus on it, but just

915
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,199
let it go into the background. It could still it

916
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,400
could still be like a static volume in the background,

917
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,400
but don't make it central to your platform. And they didn't,

918
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,000
of course, I mean the fucking elites on the left.

919
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:03,079
The Democrats killed Bernie, killed Bernie's chances of getting elected.

920
00:51:03,119 --> 00:51:05,440
And then I feel like everyone else, like the younger

921
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,639
the younger folk, were just on social media talking all

922
00:51:08,679 --> 00:51:12,840
this like academic buzzword bullshit and repeating each other's ideas

923
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,960
and just you know, but there was hope. Luigi gave

924
00:51:17,039 --> 00:51:20,119
us hope. Anyway, I talk about this all the time.

925
00:51:20,159 --> 00:51:22,000
You're probably tired. I don't care. That's fine. You don't

926
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,039
need to agree with me again. You just listen to

927
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:26,760
tuning for the Plants. But I lived in ground zero

928
00:51:27,199 --> 00:51:31,960
of all this academic, the academic American leftism shit, and

929
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:35,679
saw how fucking retarded it. God, I'm sorry it was.

930
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:40,920
It was so just borderline insane and just like tone

931
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:46,360
deaf and just obnoxious. Again, not even the ideas, just

932
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:52,719
the talk, the like the fucking vernacular, the attitude like

933
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,960
you're gonna like lecturing people and privilege, like, yeah, that's great,

934
00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:59,239
that's a great way to you know, you could it's

935
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,119
like getting again, it's like getting a dog to take

936
00:52:01,159 --> 00:52:03,000
a pill. You slip that in after, you know, don't

937
00:52:03,039 --> 00:52:06,039
be a dick, be nice, give them the hot dog first.

938
00:52:06,599 --> 00:52:09,840
It's got the smoky flavor to it. I'm not even

939
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,199
saying you need to like not talk about that stuff.

940
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:17,280
That's real. Privilege is real. There is a you know

941
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:22,440
in most cases. But like that's just you sound like

942
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,840
a dick. You sound like a cunt. I'm sorry. Just

943
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:28,800
slip it in after. It's the pill in the hot dog,

944
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,199
and just be nice. Don't be a dick. What do

945
00:52:31,199 --> 00:52:34,920
you think, Like, you know, the sixties were successful because

946
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,760
people weren't doing this shit to this extent. The shaming

947
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:41,320
and the shit talking and the it was just scot

948
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:43,840
It was so obnoxious to watch. And of course now

949
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:47,599
look what we got. You turned off such a segment,

950
00:52:47,679 --> 00:52:50,920
such a huge segment of voters with your crazy bullshit

951
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:56,039
that they voted for fascists. Oh god, and they're still

952
00:52:56,119 --> 00:52:58,400
in denial, Like, there's still so many people that are

953
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:01,679
in denial. It's just like, you know, I was, I

954
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:03,480
was part of the working class. I had a fucking

955
00:53:03,519 --> 00:53:06,079
blue collar job. I saw the way people talk. They

956
00:53:06,119 --> 00:53:09,599
weren't bad people. A lot of people got easily duped.

957
00:53:12,159 --> 00:53:14,639
I don't know. Sorry, I know, I keep going back

958
00:53:14,679 --> 00:53:17,760
to this, but I'm just blown away and it's gonna

959
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:22,000
get so bad here. But all he's saying is just

960
00:53:22,039 --> 00:53:24,400
go out and look at flowers. It's all he's saying,

961
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,119
just go out and look at flowers. And it's a

962
00:53:26,199 --> 00:53:31,639
bunch of bullshit. There was a post there was I

963
00:53:31,639 --> 00:53:34,880
remember I did some post with Means TV, who I'm

964
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,159
not I don't really care for too much anymore. But

965
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:41,920
they had something they had to kill your Lawn. They

966
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:43,920
were really supportive of kill your lawn initially, and they

967
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:49,079
put this post up on kill your lawn and in

968
00:53:49,119 --> 00:53:55,159
all these just like career political analysts in the fucking comments,

969
00:53:55,199 --> 00:53:57,519
all lefties were like, oh, yeah, what a liberal thing

970
00:53:57,599 --> 00:53:59,559
to says this is you just got to guard Yeah,

971
00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:02,159
change the world. They're gardening. He's like, God, you're fucking idiots.

972
00:54:02,159 --> 00:54:05,159
You don't even get it. You're so disconnected, you fucking clueless,

973
00:54:05,199 --> 00:54:08,920
you don't even get it gardening. Shut up, you go

974
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:10,679
fucking go outside. What do you. What do you do?

975
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,719
You just like what you just on fucking line all

976
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:16,880
day like you just again just like sniffing farts, using

977
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:20,960
big words, reading social theory with no understanding of like

978
00:54:21,079 --> 00:54:25,599
natural sciences or biology or evolution, like you've just you know,

979
00:54:26,199 --> 00:54:28,639
you gotta get off that stuff, man, you really do.

980
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:29,599
It's not good for you.

981
00:54:29,639 --> 00:54:30,079
Speaker 3: It's bad.

982
00:54:30,119 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 1: It's bad stuff. It's like that high fruit thus corn syrup.

983
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:33,039
Speaker 3: Shit.

984
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,280
Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna take a little break. Call my friend

985
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,760
Peter Burner, doctor Peter Bernher, who studied uh he originally

986
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:41,960
he's a Mobot. He's got a little cubicle at Mobot.

987
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:43,440
They put him up there on the third floor. I

988
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,480
don't know what he's doing up there. He's studying floristics,

989
00:54:46,519 --> 00:54:50,679
so he's writing a book. He studied orchids in Australia.

990
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:52,719
We're gonna call him. He's a dear friend of mine.

991
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,119
I love the ship out him. Here we go, We're

992
00:54:54,159 --> 00:55:03,880
gonna give him a little call. He's not picking up

993
00:55:04,599 --> 00:55:08,280
picking up there he is picked up. There you go.

994
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:10,519
You're I wasn't sure if you put your phone down

995
00:55:11,039 --> 00:55:13,320
I call you. You know I was calling you. I just

996
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:14,880
talked to you and I eat a sandwich.

997
00:55:16,159 --> 00:55:17,559
Speaker 3: Oh okay, okay.

998
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,519
Speaker 1: We're on a hot you're on a hot mic right now. Okay,

999
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:22,320
we're talking. How's it going.

1000
00:55:23,920 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 3: Uh, I'm a little cold, but it's warming up here.

1001
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: Why are you cold?

1002
00:55:30,199 --> 00:55:36,440
Speaker 3: Uh? Say? My wife prefers the temperature of a house

1003
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:40,159
to be at a certain level, but I'm I I

1004
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,119
prefer it to be a bit more tropical.

1005
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: It's chilly up there. Yeah, well, you know, I I uh,

1006
00:55:45,599 --> 00:55:47,440
I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you

1007
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,400
because where I live, it's it's gonna be like fucking

1008
00:55:50,519 --> 00:55:55,079
ninety three today. Oh my god, it already sucks. Yeah,

1009
00:55:55,119 --> 00:55:57,400
it's not nice. So I'm like blast and ac I

1010
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,599
gotta be like seventy four. I gotta get air circulation on.

1011
00:56:01,039 --> 00:56:04,840
I got a dehumidified, this little cheap d humidifier because

1012
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:06,920
it gets so muggy inside, you know, and then the

1013
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:10,519
dogs are oh yeah, it's already hot. I was out

1014
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:14,440
at our conservation property yesterday, conservation property, and it was

1015
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:16,960
already hot. We were like putting up the remainder of

1016
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,039
this fence, and.

1017
00:56:19,639 --> 00:56:21,039
Speaker 3: How was the property doing.

1018
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: Uh, We've got to shoot a bunch of pigs. There's

1019
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,519
pigs that run. You know, we're next to a few

1020
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:29,519
other properties and so these pigs just we need to

1021
00:56:29,599 --> 00:56:32,000
raise We need to raise money to put you know,

1022
00:56:32,119 --> 00:56:35,559
pig fencing around the whole thing. But they've destroyed there's

1023
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:38,159
a number of rare plants that were plants that are

1024
00:56:38,159 --> 00:56:42,360
now rare, like Mammalaria spherica and Mammalaria hydrae. They uproot them,

1025
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,000
eat the roots and then leave them to die. And

1026
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,599
they've got big juicy roots too.

1027
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 3: So okay, it sounds like I better write another check.

1028
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:51,519
It sucks.

1029
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, thank you by the way for that man, seriously, thank.

1030
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 3: You for That's fine, that's fine.

1031
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,079
Speaker 1: But we had this guy out there with with a

1032
00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:03,199
thermal imaging drone. We were out there after sunset. God,

1033
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,320
it's so beautiful though. The Parakis are you know what

1034
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:09,400
parakis are? These birds they're like they're in the night

1035
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:13,119
jar family and they have this they have this really

1036
00:57:13,159 --> 00:57:15,679
beautiful call. They come out at night. Yeah, and they'll

1037
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,719
like hang out in the middle of a dirt road

1038
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,519
and uh and then when you approach, they like fly away. Yeah,

1039
00:57:21,519 --> 00:57:23,599
they're really nice bird. But they're out already. It's hot

1040
00:57:23,639 --> 00:57:27,199
as fucking yeah. It was it was warm, but we

1041
00:57:27,239 --> 00:57:29,599
couldn't We couldn't see the pigs. So like they you know,

1042
00:57:29,639 --> 00:57:32,880
they're probably a few properties over, they've got probably long ranges,

1043
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:34,800
but they can't. They show up at like three in

1044
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:36,880
the morning and then during the day they're hiding somewhere.

1045
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:38,719
So we're trying to find where they're hiding. So we could,

1046
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:40,280
you know, figure out if we could get over there

1047
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,599
and shoot them. But they're horrible. They just you figure

1048
00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:46,480
the amount of damage I've seen them do in six months,

1049
00:57:46,519 --> 00:57:48,960
and you figure that over ten years they could easily

1050
00:57:49,519 --> 00:57:53,079
completely extirpate a species from a given area. It sucks,

1051
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:53,679
it's brutal.

1052
00:57:54,079 --> 00:57:55,519
Speaker 3: Geez wow.

1053
00:57:55,719 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: But uh, anyway, I got your paper. You sent me

1054
00:57:58,559 --> 00:58:03,159
the pollination and Andrew Ford structure of some Amazonian licythidacy.

1055
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,719
So let's talk what's going on here with these flowers, Peter,

1056
00:58:06,119 --> 00:58:11,719
with this family licithidacy order Eric Cayley's I've still never

1057
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,360
seen any of these, but I read that they've got

1058
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:18,519
a very complex flower structure. Actually, first off, we're we

1059
00:58:18,599 --> 00:58:23,159
uting this how they tell everybody why you got into

1060
00:58:23,159 --> 00:58:26,559
studying flowers, right, because I think there's this this and

1061
00:58:26,599 --> 00:58:30,039
you've written a few books too. There's this this unfortunate

1062
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:35,360
image of flowers being associated with Hallmark greeting cards in

1063
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:39,039
Valentine's Day, and just the image in the popular consciousness,

1064
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:42,440
which I don't like, that turned me off from them.

1065
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,760
But then when you realize the structural morphology of these

1066
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:50,320
things effectively makes them, you know, puzzles. There's strategies here

1067
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:55,599
that enable the plants to produce, them to reproduce, and

1068
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,880
they become a lot more interesting. How did you get

1069
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,599
into looking at the flowers and stuff? It's stuff.

1070
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:06,960
Speaker 3: It's based on indecision. It's based on when I was

1071
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:12,920
an undergraduate at the State University of New York at Oswego,

1072
00:59:13,559 --> 00:59:17,280
and I was thinking about graduate school, but I couldn't

1073
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:21,280
decide what I wanted to do. Did I want to

1074
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:27,159
be a botanist like my major advisor, doctor James Sego,

1075
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:32,599
who is recognized as a famous root morphologist, or did

1076
00:59:32,719 --> 00:59:37,239
I want to be a zoologist? So when I went

1077
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:41,679
on to graduate school, I met a person who was

1078
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:46,039
temporarily my advisor, doctor Jean Bobear, and she said, well,

1079
00:59:46,119 --> 00:59:51,760
maybe what you need is pollination biology, because you're studying

1080
00:59:52,079 --> 00:59:59,159
interactions between animals and flowers and I went, oh, yeah

1081
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:04,159
about that. So that's sort of where it began. And

1082
01:00:04,199 --> 01:00:08,239
I think I made the right choice considering my interests.

1083
01:00:08,519 --> 01:00:10,719
Speaker 1: I think you did too. But it you know, to

1084
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:14,000
a lot of people, not you know, not anybody I

1085
01:00:14,039 --> 01:00:16,079
would associate with, but to a lot of people, that

1086
01:00:16,199 --> 01:00:18,840
sounds like it might be a boring field of study.

1087
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:22,159
How did you get interested me? Well hold on me,

1088
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:23,000
let me finish.

1089
01:00:24,599 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 3: To deal with But it's fifty years.

1090
01:00:27,519 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 1: Well hold on, hold on, it's not though. It's not

1091
01:00:29,519 --> 01:00:32,119
a boring it's it's fascinating as hell. And you were

1092
01:00:32,559 --> 01:00:35,159
one of the people who helped me see that how

1093
01:00:35,199 --> 01:00:37,840
cool this stuff can be when you look closer, you know,

1094
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:41,480
when you realize that, you know, orchids are producing sex

1095
01:00:41,519 --> 01:00:46,119
pheromones to dupe insects, or Aristolochia flowers are trapping flies

1096
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:51,639
and resembling rotting organic matter to do it, and then

1097
01:00:51,679 --> 01:00:54,400
trapping them with these little tricombs, you know, for like

1098
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,239
a day or two to get them to pollinate. I mean,

1099
01:00:56,239 --> 01:00:58,480
there's a lot of cool stuff there. And I think

1100
01:00:58,519 --> 01:01:02,360
a lot of the initial averse to looking at plants

1101
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,360
this way and being so almost willfully ignorant of it

1102
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:11,639
comes from the way that popular culture has portrayed flowers

1103
01:01:11,679 --> 01:01:16,360
and flower structures over the last hundred two hundred years.

1104
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:19,400
I think it's quite unfortunate. Actually we might disagree here,

1105
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:21,280
but I think it's quite unfortunate.

1106
01:01:21,519 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 3: You know, No, I agree with you. And you know

1107
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:29,480
one thing about what I've been doing, it gets better

1108
01:01:29,679 --> 01:01:34,000
all the time because the technology gets better. For example,

1109
01:01:34,199 --> 01:01:38,440
I learned over a week ago that there are there

1110
01:01:38,559 --> 01:01:42,639
is new equipment to suck the odor out of flowers

1111
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:47,480
and get it identified. The technology for those continues to improve.

1112
01:01:47,719 --> 01:01:51,199
There is a woman who you need to talk to,

1113
01:01:53,039 --> 01:01:59,760
Monica Carlsenberg at the Missouri Botanical guard who's who's doing

1114
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:03,280
a project in which she removes the scent from the

1115
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:07,320
flowers and the climate fron And also this is a

1116
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:11,280
tie in with Thomas Krowitz and thorium collection.

1117
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:19,960
Speaker 1: So the protogenists, the proto gess aeroids, aeroids have a

1118
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:24,480
fucking weird florobiology too, beatles mostly.

1119
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,239
Speaker 3: But I haven't really worked on them.

1120
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:28,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, maybe you need to buddy. And

1121
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:30,800
I'm kidding. I'm sorry, I'm just joking. What you're doing

1122
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:36,719
is fine. You're studying Australian orchids especially, But I don't know.

1123
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,599
My hope is that this is you know, that more

1124
01:02:39,599 --> 01:02:44,079
people start coming around and seeing this, and I just, yeah,

1125
01:02:44,079 --> 01:02:44,519
I don't know.

1126
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 3: I think it's getting better.

1127
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:51,159
Speaker 1: It has been ruined, though. It has been ruined because

1128
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:56,639
the associations, the cultural associations with the zeitgeist, at least

1129
01:02:56,639 --> 01:03:00,440
in America, you know, connects it to is other things beauty,

1130
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,480
which is so stupid. It's the lowest common denominator. It's

1131
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,039
it's that doesn't mean anything, you know. I see a

1132
01:03:06,039 --> 01:03:08,199
painting of a Chase bank on fire. That's a thing of.

1133
01:03:08,159 --> 01:03:09,039
Speaker 3: Beauty to me.

1134
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 1: Well, a flower is like so much more complex than that.

1135
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:16,119
There's so much more going on with the reproductive morphology.

1136
01:03:16,239 --> 01:03:19,079
You could figure out what it's related to. Uh, you know,

1137
01:03:19,159 --> 01:03:22,840
we group plants, we group families by floral structure. There's

1138
01:03:22,880 --> 01:03:26,559
all these snapomorphis that make these things. They're just so

1139
01:03:26,719 --> 01:03:30,159
fucking fascinating when you look close at some of these

1140
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,159
some of the things that exist. I mean, there's a

1141
01:03:32,159 --> 01:03:36,840
flower in Cuba that what is it, mark Gravia vigna

1142
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:40,679
that produces radar dishes for the bats that pollinate it.

1143
01:03:40,719 --> 01:03:44,400
The leaves literally turn into like a little kite dish.

1144
01:03:45,599 --> 01:03:49,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, you're putting it in your book. Yeah, Now,

1145
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:54,239
let me explain about that. I have a book that

1146
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:59,800
will be out by February next year. The working title

1147
01:04:00,159 --> 01:04:05,440
is Unloved Pollinators and Their Flowers, and I'll be looking

1148
01:04:05,559 --> 01:04:10,960
with each chapter at flowers that people have tended to ignore,

1149
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:17,679
and they have a number of pollinators that people don't

1150
01:04:18,079 --> 01:04:19,239
like very much.

1151
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,639
Speaker 1: Can I can I recommend the name? Let's let's put

1152
01:04:22,639 --> 01:04:24,639
the name. You could put that that title in there,

1153
01:04:24,639 --> 01:04:28,840
but I'll put study Unloved Flowers.

1154
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:33,519
Speaker 3: Uh no, no, no, no, Unloved Pollinators and their flowers.

1155
01:04:33,559 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: Okay, study Unloved Pollinators and their Flowers, or I'll club

1156
01:04:37,039 --> 01:04:39,039
you with something rusty. How's that for a title?

1157
01:04:39,079 --> 01:04:41,719
Speaker 3: Good? Good, good. I approve with that.

1158
01:04:41,719 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 1: That would be my I'm going to write this the

1159
01:04:43,559 --> 01:04:47,119
second part to that book. It'll be about Okay, sorry,

1160
01:04:47,159 --> 01:04:48,039
go on, I'm just kidding.

1161
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:53,199
Speaker 3: Well, that's okay, mcgravia. That I well, the last chapter

1162
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:57,960
is the bat pollinated chapter, and so we will be

1163
01:04:58,159 --> 01:05:06,320
uh it looks at bat pollination in the tropical Americas,

1164
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:10,280
but also in Fiji, where there's a little bit of

1165
01:05:10,320 --> 01:05:17,039
a problem there because they're one of the trees seems

1166
01:05:17,039 --> 01:05:20,639
to be losing its pollinators because the locals are eating

1167
01:05:20,719 --> 01:05:21,519
the bats.

1168
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 1: Jesus. Okay, so these are flying foxes probably.

1169
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:29,679
Speaker 3: Right, Remember with that you deal with once you get

1170
01:05:29,719 --> 01:05:34,920
into the old world, most of the pollinators tend to beteropids.

1171
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,360
Those are the flying foxes. That's right.

1172
01:05:37,679 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 1: Is that a family or what is it?

1173
01:05:40,440 --> 01:05:41,239
Speaker 3: It's a family?

1174
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 1: Okay? And so what went? Go ahead? Go ahead, I'll say, well,

1175
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:49,679
I was going to ask you what I'm curious about

1176
01:05:49,679 --> 01:05:52,639
the chapters? Then like what what what pollinators are you

1177
01:05:52,679 --> 01:05:53,559
focusing on? Then?

1178
01:05:54,199 --> 01:06:00,719
Speaker 3: Okay, So the the the chapters in this will go

1179
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:08,920
the pollinators of flowers will will go into flies, then

1180
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:15,199
into wasps, then into very dingy night moths, and then

1181
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:24,840
finally into into bats. That that tends to encompass the

1182
01:06:25,599 --> 01:06:30,119
animals a lot of people really dislike. But I make

1183
01:06:30,159 --> 01:06:33,920
a point that we do tend to benefit from this.

1184
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: No beatles beetles.

1185
01:06:36,519 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 3: Oh sorry, bega, oh thank you. Yes, yes we do beatles,

1186
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:45,440
but we do them from the standpoint of some of

1187
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:51,000
my past research with Peter Goldblatt on the flower beetles

1188
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:53,199
of South Africa, which I know you've seen.

1189
01:06:53,519 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Oh, that's great. You got mega Palpis caapentus

1190
01:06:57,519 --> 01:06:58,679
in there in the fly section.

1191
01:07:01,119 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 3: No, no, not this time. We I wanted to refer

1192
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:12,199
to Leonard Tine, who we lost a couple of years ago.

1193
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:16,639
Professor Leonardtine. He was the one who had a very

1194
01:07:16,679 --> 01:07:26,400
close look at mosquito pollination of the of one of

1195
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:30,360
the Canadian American orchids. This is this is an old

1196
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:34,400
story and I like to do that because it gives

1197
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:40,159
us a chance to see what a torch race research is.

1198
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,920
This all goes back to a woman named Ada Deets

1199
01:07:44,199 --> 01:07:48,320
in the early part of the twentieth century. Who she was.

1200
01:07:48,519 --> 01:07:54,199
She was looking at the plants in a particular area

1201
01:07:54,239 --> 01:07:57,800
and she noticed that that the mosquitoes were wearing little

1202
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:01,920
yellow dots on her on their heads, and she reported

1203
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,800
this to an entomologist. And so this is going on

1204
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:08,400
like every twenty or thirty years, somebody has more to

1205
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:15,199
say about the Uh it is a it is a platanthra.

1206
01:08:15,679 --> 01:08:23,520
It is you know, yeah, yes, uh up to sata

1207
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:27,800
I believe is the species. Unfortunately you're interviewing me at

1208
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:31,359
home and at the age of seventy two, I tend

1209
01:08:31,920 --> 01:08:33,880
I tend to forget some of the species.

1210
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:35,640
Speaker 1: That's okay, man, I forget the fall the time. But

1211
01:08:35,640 --> 01:08:37,359
people could just I mean, it's fine, they could. I'm

1212
01:08:37,359 --> 01:08:39,119
sure they could look it up. It's still an interesting

1213
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:41,279
I think getting it down to genius is good enough.

1214
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:44,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. But and well, I just want to say I'm

1215
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:48,000
from there. We go into some of the research. I

1216
01:08:48,079 --> 01:08:53,319
did it Australia with Wendy Grimm and song sing Rim Wren,

1217
01:08:54,079 --> 01:08:59,960
and we look at the midge orchids of the Australia

1218
01:09:00,199 --> 01:09:04,520
suburb and how they are pollinated by I flies and

1219
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:10,039
Fritz flies. These are insects. People really don't like. What

1220
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:17,800
the no, what does the name I flies suggest Jesus

1221
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:19,680
Christ that.

1222
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:24,039
Speaker 1: I didn't catch That's terrible. Are you know the flies

1223
01:09:24,279 --> 01:09:24,920
like the ones that.

1224
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, no, they're They're not the TC flies.

1225
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:32,479
These these are tiny. These are only about on a

1226
01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:39,039
good day, a fat floor open fly is about uh

1227
01:09:39,199 --> 01:09:45,119
two millimeters in length, maybe three. And it's an interesting

1228
01:09:45,279 --> 01:09:50,079
story because and you can see this on YouTube. Uh

1229
01:09:50,399 --> 01:09:53,880
Doctor Songs and Wren. Uh. You can tell readers to

1230
01:09:53,960 --> 01:09:59,840
go to YouTube and look up Peruna stylus. These are

1231
01:10:00,199 --> 01:10:04,720
orchids in which the lip pebal has a joint and

1232
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:11,279
they flipped up and down as the breeze goes by.

1233
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:13,399
We've been wondering about that.

1234
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:17,000
Speaker 1: Karunas stylus is an Australian name for the sharp and

1235
01:10:17,079 --> 01:10:20,039
midge or so these. But the point is, and this

1236
01:10:20,119 --> 01:10:22,439
is something that I think a lot of people, just

1237
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,279
your average citizen has no idea about, is that it's

1238
01:10:26,319 --> 01:10:29,000
not just bees that do pollination. There's I mean, people

1239
01:10:29,039 --> 01:10:31,119
are so ignorant of the living world. I don't fault

1240
01:10:31,159 --> 01:10:33,520
them for it. You know, they've although the habitat's been

1241
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,479
destroyed and they've been disconnected and severed from it. They're

1242
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,800
kept from it in many places, but they don't even

1243
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:42,039
know that flies. I mean, I had a there's a

1244
01:10:42,079 --> 01:10:45,960
really cool Texas native Senegaliara Mariana flowers smell fucking incredible.

1245
01:10:46,279 --> 01:10:48,960
It's got those little catcloth thorns on it. It gets

1246
01:10:49,279 --> 01:10:50,920
they can get like twenty feet, but the one in

1247
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:54,159
my yard is like ten feet. The whole thing last

1248
01:10:54,239 --> 01:10:57,359
year when it was blooming, which smelled really nice to

1249
01:10:57,399 --> 01:11:00,239
walk by, it was covered in flies, but not just

1250
01:11:00,279 --> 01:11:03,159
like the shit flies. All different kinds of Diptero.

1251
01:11:03,359 --> 01:11:03,520
Speaker 3: Right.

1252
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: Diptera is the order of flies, right, Yeah, and it

1253
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:10,319
was really uh it was. It was exciting for me

1254
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:13,119
to see because I was you know, I don't know,

1255
01:11:13,239 --> 01:11:15,720
I just I assumed it would be bees. I also

1256
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:17,880
like seeing the native bees that come by. I've gained

1257
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:22,039
kind of a contempt for European honeybees. They kind of

1258
01:11:22,039 --> 01:11:26,319
bumm me out. Castilla erecta simaru Basi was blooming yesterday

1259
01:11:26,319 --> 01:11:28,039
at our conservation property and there were a lot of

1260
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:31,279
honey bees on it, which means they're Africanized. They're the

1261
01:11:31,279 --> 01:11:34,760
aggressive ones if you get near their nest. But the

1262
01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:37,479
sweat bees I love where I figure when the last

1263
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:40,159
time I saw a sweat bee was speaking of insects

1264
01:11:40,239 --> 01:11:42,000
that come and land on you, like the like the

1265
01:11:42,079 --> 01:11:44,319
eye flies. The sweat bees are kind of cute. I

1266
01:11:44,319 --> 01:11:46,000
don't mind them so much. They come and they just

1267
01:11:46,039 --> 01:11:48,439
they literally just lick your sweat. They got kind of

1268
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:50,920
a nice color to them. Anyway, did you finish this

1269
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:53,159
book already?

1270
01:11:53,239 --> 01:11:53,640
Speaker 3: Yes?

1271
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:57,079
Speaker 1: God, damn, I didn't know you were even working on it.

1272
01:11:57,159 --> 01:11:58,560
I mean, I knew you were working on it, but

1273
01:11:58,600 --> 01:11:59,359
when did you start?

1274
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:05,560
Speaker 3: Well, actually I started it. It's now close to three years.

1275
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:08,279
It's a COVID book. You know what I mean.

1276
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it made me feel bad about myself. My

1277
01:12:11,199 --> 01:12:13,239
book is not neither one is done yet.

1278
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 3: All right, well it was done. I basically wrote it

1279
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:21,800
over a over a suburb. But then there was a

1280
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:29,239
problem getting getting a publisher. I never had that kind

1281
01:12:29,279 --> 01:12:36,039
of trouble before. But boy, look, the publishing industry isn't

1282
01:12:36,079 --> 01:12:38,920
a mess for a number of reasons. You don't want

1283
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:41,880
to go into that. It's not that kind of if.

1284
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:43,520
This is not that kind of audio.

1285
01:12:44,319 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 1: No, no, no, let it beat his kind of audio. Because

1286
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:50,640
they are there. It's like everything they're cutting jobs. One

1287
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:52,840
of the publishers I'm working with has been great, she

1288
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,800
gets back to me, and then the other one, literally,

1289
01:12:56,319 --> 01:12:58,960
this poor girl, she's like twenty six. They hired her,

1290
01:12:59,039 --> 01:13:02,960
they're underpaying. And then the guy who was supposed to

1291
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:06,159
read the manuscript I submitted, which I ended up I'm

1292
01:13:06,159 --> 01:13:07,920
only going to use like twenty percent of it, not

1293
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:12,199
even never fucking read it. And then she was pushed

1294
01:13:12,279 --> 01:13:14,800
It was pushed off on her, and I feel bad

1295
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:17,880
for her, and I always have to tell her, like,

1296
01:13:18,079 --> 01:13:20,479
my problem is with the publisher, not with you. I'm

1297
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:22,239
really you know, I have to make sure she understands like,

1298
01:13:22,239 --> 01:13:24,000
I've got no beef with her because I tend to

1299
01:13:24,039 --> 01:13:27,600
be kind of healthy and complain a lot. But yeah,

1300
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:29,800
it's a mess, man. And this my book was supposed

1301
01:13:29,840 --> 01:13:31,680
to be done last year. I submitted. They didn't even

1302
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:34,680
read it again, thank god, because whatever. And then the

1303
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:36,840
guy that they got doing the layout, he makes the

1304
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:40,640
fucking the pictures look like a health insurance brochure. It's not.

1305
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:42,680
It's horrible, So I'm gonna have to do it. That's

1306
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:45,680
what Michael Simpson, who wrote Plant Systematics, told me too.

1307
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:47,479
He's like, if you don't want it to get fucked up,

1308
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:48,920
you're gonna have to do the layout yourself. You can

1309
01:13:49,000 --> 01:13:52,520
have to teach yourself in design and do the layout yourself,

1310
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:54,479
which means I'm doing it for free because they're not

1311
01:13:54,520 --> 01:13:56,640
going to pay me anything else. So anyway, it's a mess.

1312
01:13:56,680 --> 01:13:59,680
But you've written what were the three other books you've

1313
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:03,720
You've written two books in one, you've edited one. Let's

1314
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:05,159
go through there for everybody listening.

1315
01:14:06,079 --> 01:14:09,079
Speaker 3: The first book, which is still in press, that came

1316
01:14:09,119 --> 01:14:14,039
out in nineteen eighty nine, that was Wildly Violence and

1317
01:14:14,279 --> 01:14:15,800
Underground Orchids.

1318
01:14:16,039 --> 01:14:19,039
Speaker 1: What's the underground orchid species? What tell everybody, because this.

1319
01:14:19,039 --> 01:14:24,079
Speaker 3: Is from Raisin Fella Riisin Fella. And in fact I

1320
01:14:24,239 --> 01:14:28,000
wrote that chapter before I had actually seen the orchid.

1321
01:14:28,079 --> 01:14:32,399
I did not get to see that orchid until nineteen

1322
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:37,439
ninety when I temporarily joined the Royal Botanic Gardens in Sydney,

1323
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:42,359
and I was asked to write a part of a

1324
01:14:42,399 --> 01:14:46,039
small part of volume four of the Floor of New

1325
01:14:46,159 --> 01:14:48,600
South Wales. This is.

1326
01:14:50,319 --> 01:14:56,119
Speaker 1: Right, sorry, so get it out. That's good, get it out.

1327
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 3: It's just sinuses this time of the year. But there

1328
01:15:01,079 --> 01:15:06,359
is a genus of orchid in Australia called Riisin Fella

1329
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:13,279
riisin fella meaning root flower it and it does not

1330
01:15:13,359 --> 01:15:22,560
produce chlorophyll. It has a very complex relationship with melt

1331
01:15:22,560 --> 01:15:28,239
with the with a fungus that is an endosyndiant or

1332
01:15:28,359 --> 01:15:33,039
is it an ecdo cyndia. I never remember of broom honey,

1333
01:15:33,079 --> 01:15:39,119
myrtle mel luca. So the orchid is benefiting off of

1334
01:15:39,399 --> 01:15:44,319
the symbiotic relationship. It's it's basically a parasite of the fungus,

1335
01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:47,279
whereas the fungus is looking for bush.

1336
01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:50,600
Speaker 1: It's a Michael heterrotroph But tell everybody what pollinates this

1337
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:54,039
this weird ass plant. Tell everybody what pollinates what ponies?

1338
01:15:55,159 --> 01:16:04,720
Speaker 3: Uh? It appears to be leansy forid flaw. Uh. Gee,

1339
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:07,000
that's a new one on me. No, I don't think

1340
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:10,159
I believe it's it's it's fought. We will have to

1341
01:16:10,199 --> 01:16:16,119
look in look into that. What happens is that the

1342
01:16:16,119 --> 01:16:21,199
the orchid lives underground all its life, but when it

1343
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:26,680
decides to have sex, it produces a flowering cup at

1344
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:32,199
its top, which just casually pushes up the humus and

1345
01:16:32,319 --> 01:16:37,920
detritus on the forest floor, leaving little cracks for the

1346
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:39,560
flies to enter.

1347
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:44,199
Speaker 1: But it flowers like basically underground.

1348
01:16:44,319 --> 01:16:49,319
Speaker 3: I mean, it's basically the fly has to go down

1349
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:54,079
into this chamber that's made by the circle of bracks.

1350
01:16:54,119 --> 01:16:57,600
It's a little bit like your It's almost as if

1351
01:16:57,960 --> 01:17:03,840
an orchid decided to act like one of your one

1352
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:07,920
of your beloved members of the astor racing. The orchid

1353
01:17:08,039 --> 01:17:12,159
fire forms a capitulum, and.

1354
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:14,279
Speaker 1: There's tiny flowers. Oh my god, this thing is weird.

1355
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:15,119
Speaker 3: Now there is.

1356
01:17:15,279 --> 01:17:18,479
Speaker 1: I didn't realize it. Oh my god, there's tiny flowers

1357
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:22,800
on the inside of this. What a fucking bizarre organism.

1358
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:25,600
How how old is this? I wanted the evolutionary age

1359
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:27,960
and how did the fuck did this thing evolve under?

1360
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:30,279
What selection pressures? Like, how does that happen?

1361
01:17:30,279 --> 01:17:35,159
Speaker 3: I will I really don't know, but in this but

1362
01:17:35,159 --> 01:17:38,279
but let's let's let's look at it this way. This

1363
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:42,680
is Australia. There has been a great deal of diversity

1364
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:49,439
over time over the the family Orchidoity and.

1365
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:52,079
Speaker 1: The subfamily Orchidoity.

1366
01:17:52,399 --> 01:17:58,680
Speaker 3: The subfamily Orchidolity, And uh, when do you think about it? Uh,

1367
01:17:58,840 --> 01:18:01,039
when you were dealing with a with a part of

1368
01:18:01,039 --> 01:18:06,119
the world that becomes seasonally dry, perhaps remaining underground in

1369
01:18:06,159 --> 01:18:10,520
a relatively moist spot under a bush might be one

1370
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:12,800
of the better ways to handle it. And as far

1371
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:18,880
as exploiting little flies, well that's very, very common in Australia.

1372
01:18:20,479 --> 01:18:24,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, hold on, yeah, what is the host

1373
01:18:24,279 --> 01:18:27,239
plant for the fungus? This is a micoheterotrophic plant, so

1374
01:18:27,279 --> 01:18:30,560
it's a plant that basically steals from fungus. But I

1375
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:33,439
don't even like anthropomorphizing that because maybe the fungus is

1376
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:35,279
letting it hang on. I don't know, we don't really

1377
01:18:35,359 --> 01:18:39,279
understand this relationship. But either way, this thing is not photosynthesizing, right,

1378
01:18:39,319 --> 01:18:42,079
this plant is not photosynthetic, so it's taken from the fungus.

1379
01:18:42,399 --> 01:18:45,960
What is the host plant that this micorrhizal fungus. It's

1380
01:18:45,960 --> 01:18:49,680
a fungus that's symbiotic with most plants anyway, what is

1381
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:51,039
the whole Is it a eucalypt or what?

1382
01:18:52,199 --> 01:18:56,439
Speaker 3: Uh, You've got the right family. It's mercasey and supposedly

1383
01:18:56,560 --> 01:19:00,760
it's one of the common melo lucas, which are they

1384
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:04,119
often referred to as as broom honey myrtles.

1385
01:19:04,239 --> 01:19:06,880
Speaker 1: So these are really important trees, a lot of these

1386
01:19:07,079 --> 01:19:11,840
mertaceous things in Australia, because they are literally the scaffolding

1387
01:19:11,960 --> 01:19:16,439
for a highfel network, a highfhel network of cool micor

1388
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:20,079
rhizol fungi. So there's another thing about uh, you know,

1389
01:19:20,119 --> 01:19:22,279
this is an aspect a lot of people don't realize

1390
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:26,079
is for these roots of plants underground are acting as

1391
01:19:26,079 --> 01:19:30,800
a scaffolding for a plethora of different organisms, whether they're

1392
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:33,359
insects or fungi or bacteria whatever.

1393
01:19:33,479 --> 01:19:36,760
Speaker 3: So and that's what they Wait, wait, wait, we can

1394
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:42,600
take it one step further. This orchid is also produces tiny,

1395
01:19:43,159 --> 01:19:48,399
fleshy fruits, so there is a suggestion that these seeds

1396
01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:53,000
are are being dispersed by tiny marsupials.

1397
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:54,840
Speaker 1: What do the fruits look like.

1398
01:19:56,279 --> 01:20:02,319
Speaker 3: I've never seen them. The I just they're just they're

1399
01:20:02,439 --> 01:20:10,600
just the small fleshy fruits. Remember, fleshy fleshy fruits are

1400
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:14,279
uncommon in the orchids, but they do occur. It's just

1401
01:20:14,279 --> 01:20:19,079
that we we usually associate them with the subfamily Banaloidi.

1402
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:23,760
Speaker 1: Right, most of the fruits in orchidace are dry capsules.

1403
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:27,159
They're the hissing capsules with tiny seeds. But but yeah,

1404
01:20:27,319 --> 01:20:30,880
I remember seeing a vanilla species in the Dominican Republic

1405
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:35,279
that had a really squishy ass red fruit, bright red,

1406
01:20:35,479 --> 01:20:39,159
obviously conspicuous for it needs some animal to disperse it.

1407
01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:43,800
But there was like a gooey substance. It was really cool. God,

1408
01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:45,800
there was a ton of cool vanilla out there. Fuck,

1409
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:48,319
there was one. There was a vanilla that grew on

1410
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:52,840
an arborescent cacti, on tree cacti, and it had like

1411
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,000
just it was just brown stems with barely any leaves,

1412
01:20:56,079 --> 01:21:00,520
tiny leaves at the nodes. I forget the species almost. God,

1413
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:03,279
that was an incredible I would love to grow that vanilla.

1414
01:21:03,399 --> 01:21:05,960
It grew in thorn forest. It was a vanilla that

1415
01:21:06,039 --> 01:21:11,680
grew in thorn forest and I didn't, Uh, I don't

1416
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:14,720
think I got the yeah. And I never got any

1417
01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:15,800
photos of the flowers.

1418
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:16,399
Speaker 3: What a yeah?

1419
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 1: Barbolata vanilla barbilatta or venilla barba YadA if you're you know,

1420
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:25,920
if you speak Spanish. But anyway, I was in love

1421
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:28,239
with that plant. Fuck. I should put that in my book.

1422
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:31,039
I still got time. Anyway. I don't have photos of

1423
01:21:31,079 --> 01:21:33,399
the flowers though. Okay, So how'd you end up in Australia.

1424
01:21:33,399 --> 01:21:35,880
You grew up in Long Island. How'd you go down

1425
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:39,159
to how'd you end up in Australia.

1426
01:21:39,760 --> 01:21:43,680
Speaker 3: I got down to Australia because I got down to

1427
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:48,760
El Salvador in Central America. Now I'll explain. After I

1428
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:52,680
did my master's degree, there's something I had always wanted

1429
01:21:52,680 --> 01:21:55,039
to do with my life. I wanted to be in

1430
01:21:55,119 --> 01:22:03,760
the East Corps, and I was. I applied, and they

1431
01:22:04,439 --> 01:22:07,279
usually don't give you a choice at the time. They

1432
01:22:07,399 --> 01:22:10,560
just say, well, if you want to do certain things,

1433
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:12,039
this is where you're going to go.

1434
01:22:12,119 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 1: Way, Wait, what got you in the Peace Corps? Because

1435
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:16,079
it's like a way to travel without having to worry

1436
01:22:16,079 --> 01:22:17,079
about getting shut.

1437
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:22,800
Speaker 3: Yes, and it's also a way to to imitate Charles

1438
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:28,199
Darwin and to go to the tropics. So I was

1439
01:22:28,279 --> 01:22:33,359
sent to the University of El Salvador to teach and

1440
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:39,439
do research and help maintain the herbarium with a wonderful

1441
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:48,520
woman eighty Montalvo to eighty Montevo right, and we This

1442
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:56,119
included weekly field trips and expeditions. We always found something

1443
01:22:56,239 --> 01:23:01,079
new and dur But during that time, part of my

1444
01:23:01,279 --> 01:23:04,720
job was to translate certain things for the students. And

1445
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:08,520
I was going through a copy of Science, and the

1446
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:12,319
way I go through journals, I start at the back

1447
01:23:12,439 --> 01:23:16,000
and flipped and because I was looking for something, I

1448
01:23:16,079 --> 01:23:19,439
wasn't sure of the year, and in the back of Science,

1449
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:24,439
of course that's where all the adverts are. And I

1450
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:30,439
saw an ad for the University of Melbourne that they

1451
01:23:30,479 --> 01:23:35,640
were giving out fellowships. And at that point I said, well,

1452
01:23:36,159 --> 01:23:42,159
I'm going to finish up here in another year and

1453
01:23:42,159 --> 01:23:44,359
a half. I got to think of what's coming next,

1454
01:23:44,359 --> 01:23:48,039
and that means graduate school to do a PhD. So

1455
01:23:48,119 --> 01:23:55,119
I started a I started a correspondence with doctor Malcolm

1456
01:23:55,239 --> 01:23:59,880
Calder of the School of Botany at the University of Melbourne.

1457
01:24:00,039 --> 01:24:01,239
Speaker 1: Well dead Nowady is still alive.

1458
01:24:01,600 --> 01:24:08,920
Speaker 3: No, No, Malcolm is Malcolm is living in Victoria in

1459
01:24:09,079 --> 01:24:14,920
Yarra Glenn uh uh. He and his son manage a winery,

1460
01:24:15,239 --> 01:24:18,760
and I hope to get back there and say up,

1461
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:23,199
well the po the uh the contents. Next year when

1462
01:24:24,199 --> 01:24:25,479
the book comes out, you're.

1463
01:24:25,359 --> 01:24:27,680
Speaker 1: Gonna go down, or you're gonna get You're gonna go down,

1464
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:31,720
or you're gonna get hammered at this winery to celebrate it.

1465
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:33,960
You're gonna be looking at You're gonna be looking at

1466
01:24:34,039 --> 01:24:36,600
ri How do I get out to see Risent Thella?

1467
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:39,039
Any Australians out there who can get me down to

1468
01:24:39,079 --> 01:24:42,760
see Risent Theella? So I don't have to threaten anybody,

1469
01:24:43,119 --> 01:24:46,319
can you please? I will I will self immolate on

1470
01:24:46,399 --> 01:24:49,279
the steps at the Sydney Opera House if someone doesn't

1471
01:24:49,319 --> 01:24:51,039
take my ass out to see Risa.

1472
01:24:51,880 --> 01:24:54,520
Speaker 3: Well the best I can do for you, because this

1473
01:24:54,720 --> 01:25:00,720
is how I had to describe the genus the The

1474
01:25:01,239 --> 01:25:06,760
Sydney Botanic Garden has a wet collection of flowers and they.

1475
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:14,279
Speaker 1: Had well yeah, boys, okay, go ahead, right.

1476
01:25:14,119 --> 01:25:18,000
Speaker 3: Well all of the well, but you can also call

1477
01:25:18,039 --> 01:25:24,399
it a spirit collection. These are flowers that the well,

1478
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:27,560
no no, no, we don't want to use formaldehyde. That

1479
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:30,920
that that makes the flowers very brittle athough that's the

1480
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:34,359
way it was done in the old day, seventy percent

1481
01:25:34,600 --> 01:25:38,159
and all I think is the best. It also leaches

1482
01:25:38,239 --> 01:25:41,239
out the colors so you can see the veins inside

1483
01:25:41,359 --> 01:25:45,159
various structures, which I think is very important. Well, they

1484
01:25:45,239 --> 01:25:50,600
had a horizon fella was the the original genus was

1485
01:25:50,640 --> 01:25:54,279
called krypton themis hidden flowers. But they had it in

1486
01:25:54,359 --> 01:25:58,279
a bottle and I was able to describe it for

1487
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:05,239
the that section of the book. Very vary. So if

1488
01:26:05,279 --> 01:26:09,039
you can't find it in the field, although I'll bet

1489
01:26:10,119 --> 01:26:13,439
with all of your listeners in Australia there's probably someone

1490
01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:17,720
who can take you to a population. I would suggest

1491
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:20,479
that you go to the collection which is now in

1492
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:26,319
Mount Addam and have a look at it first in

1493
01:26:26,479 --> 01:26:29,000
all of its glory, because there's no dirt on it

1494
01:26:29,520 --> 01:26:33,439
or anything. And by the way, just shout out to

1495
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:37,640
the Botanic Garden in Mount added You need to see that.

1496
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:40,279
In New South Wales, you need to see that because

1497
01:26:40,279 --> 01:26:44,199
that has one of the greatest collections living collections of

1498
01:26:44,319 --> 01:26:45,239
Australian play.

1499
01:26:45,319 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'm going back. I need to go

1500
01:26:47,119 --> 01:26:49,520
back to Australia at some point and spend like a

1501
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:51,600
month or two there because there's a lot of crime,

1502
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:54,600
pays fans down there, and there's some good people, and

1503
01:26:54,640 --> 01:26:57,199
it always feels good. It always feels much better being

1504
01:26:57,239 --> 01:27:01,039
there than here. The culture's just not as rotten. You know,

1505
01:27:01,079 --> 01:27:03,399
they've got free health care and they've got or affordable

1506
01:27:04,479 --> 01:27:05,960
you know, it's just it's just not as much of

1507
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:08,760
a poisonous Uh. It's got its flaws, but it's not

1508
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:11,479
as poisonous. Do you think how much dumber do you

1509
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:13,680
think the American public is going to be after after

1510
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:16,399
the next four years that we're going through right now,

1511
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:19,800
you know, defunding science, defunding, they want to privatize the

1512
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:22,399
post Office? And answer, how much dumber do you think

1513
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:26,000
the general American citizen? And no shame to them, bless

1514
01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:27,720
their hearts, how much dumber do you think they're gonna

1515
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:28,880
be after four years of this shit?

1516
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:32,720
Speaker 3: I don't think it's even a question of being dumber.

1517
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:35,399
I think it's worse than this, Joey, I think it's

1518
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:38,399
four years. How unprotected we're going.

1519
01:27:38,279 --> 01:27:39,560
Speaker 1: To be unprotected?

1520
01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:39,840
Speaker 3: Yes?

1521
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:42,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, and broke more broke.

1522
01:27:44,119 --> 01:27:48,680
Speaker 3: That's that's what frightens be right now, The indiscriminate firing

1523
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:52,479
of people who have been protecting us. And I don't

1524
01:27:52,479 --> 01:27:55,079
know if we should keep talking about this. Who knows

1525
01:27:55,159 --> 01:27:56,119
who's listening.

1526
01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:58,159
Speaker 1: Why what are you worried about?

1527
01:27:58,199 --> 01:27:58,880
Speaker 3: Well, you never.

1528
01:28:00,279 --> 01:28:02,399
Speaker 1: I've already run my mouth so much about it already,

1529
01:28:02,439 --> 01:28:05,039
I mean anything a lot of Well, you're worried about

1530
01:28:05,039 --> 01:28:08,079
the secret police, You're worried about the cheeseburger secret police.

1531
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:10,479
Speaker 3: I suppose that's what it's.

1532
01:28:10,359 --> 01:28:12,680
Speaker 1: Gonna be like here, it's gonna be It's America is

1533
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:16,880
going to put such a distinct flavor on dystopia. You know,

1534
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:19,680
we'll have our own pianom and squares. It'll be Yeah,

1535
01:28:19,680 --> 01:28:22,680
it'll be amazing in terms of like a science fiction

1536
01:28:23,359 --> 01:28:27,359
bleak dystopia. Okay, let's let's go back to talking about flowers. Now,

1537
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:30,680
let's go so you ended up, So you ended up

1538
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:32,479
in Australia, and then when you got there, how do

1539
01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:34,319
you I mean, you were already interested in orchids when

1540
01:28:34,359 --> 01:28:38,479
you got to Australia, because the Australian orchids, these terrestrial

1541
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:41,359
orchids are especially weird. And that's when you were.

1542
01:28:41,279 --> 01:28:45,319
Speaker 3: Hoping at what Okay, we we interrupted the narrative. So

1543
01:28:45,479 --> 01:28:52,239
I found that I began corresponding with with Malcolm Colder

1544
01:28:53,239 --> 01:28:56,399
and then I applied for the fellowship, but I did

1545
01:28:56,479 --> 01:29:01,359
not get it because of fellowship over there is really

1546
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:06,479
for people who already have their PhDs. Malcolm wrote me

1547
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:08,680
and said, well, you didn't get the fellowship, but you're

1548
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:12,239
like a scholarship to do a PhD. And I said,

1549
01:29:12,319 --> 01:29:17,560
oh yes, poyase because I had spent several months applying

1550
01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:25,560
to American graduate schools and I was invited to interview one,

1551
01:29:25,640 --> 01:29:33,640
and I suddenly realized what a mean existence graduate students

1552
01:29:33,680 --> 01:29:41,000
seemed to seem to have. Melbourne promised me better. They

1553
01:29:41,199 --> 01:29:43,479
promised that, first of all, you're not going to have

1554
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:46,720
to take any more of these silly courses. We're going

1555
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:52,560
to get you right into research. You're going to You're

1556
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:55,960
not going to have to be a teaching assistant because

1557
01:29:56,039 --> 01:29:59,279
you have a scholarship. We want you working on this

1558
01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:03,720
all the time. And after a couple of days, dude

1559
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:07,199
was snowstar. But I was trapped there at the University

1560
01:30:07,239 --> 01:30:12,039
of Illinois or body Champagne. I was more than ready

1561
01:30:12,079 --> 01:30:16,520
to go to Australia. Uh you were.

1562
01:30:16,399 --> 01:30:18,199
Speaker 1: You were you were living in Wait? Where were you

1563
01:30:18,199 --> 01:30:19,279
you were living in Urbana.

1564
01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:25,039
Speaker 3: No I went for an interview. Her name was Mary Wilson.

1565
01:30:25,159 --> 01:30:29,239
She's gone now. She was she was very important in

1566
01:30:29,279 --> 01:30:32,680
the early nineteen eighties for having a new look at

1567
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:38,239
the reproductive ecology of plants. With all respect to her,

1568
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:41,720
but when I realized, you know, the graduate students were

1569
01:30:41,720 --> 01:30:45,600
renting an old house. They were living off of cheese

1570
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:49,479
and broccoli soup. I said that in Urbana.

1571
01:30:49,600 --> 01:30:54,760
Speaker 1: I took Champagne, Illinois. That's rough, that's rough right.

1572
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:58,359
Speaker 3: There, which they described as a corn pit, which it

1573
01:30:58,560 --> 01:31:01,720
was that you had. You had to for hours to

1574
01:31:01,800 --> 01:31:03,600
find any native vegetation.

1575
01:31:03,840 --> 01:31:07,119
Speaker 1: Definitely doing acid in Champa. There's definitely people doing acid

1576
01:31:07,159 --> 01:31:09,800
in Champagne. I would I don't. There's nothing else to do.

1577
01:31:10,039 --> 01:31:12,399
You've got to do. You've got to do psychedelic drugs.

1578
01:31:12,399 --> 01:31:13,359
It's the only thing there is.

1579
01:31:13,359 --> 01:31:16,119
Speaker 3: To do there. You gotta do what you gotta do.

1580
01:31:16,279 --> 01:31:21,359
So I went to Melbourne and I stayed at a

1581
01:31:21,399 --> 01:31:26,439
place called Graduate House, which was just for graduate students.

1582
01:31:26,439 --> 01:31:30,680
It still exists in a in some way, shape or form,

1583
01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:34,319
and it was great. I had my own room. It

1584
01:31:34,439 --> 01:31:39,600
was a non sweet facility I had. They did that.

1585
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:42,720
They had a restaurant. You had breakfast and lunch. It

1586
01:31:42,760 --> 01:31:44,760
was it was all part. It was all part of

1587
01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:47,159
the bill, and I could and it was about a

1588
01:31:47,159 --> 01:31:51,760
two minute walk to the School of Botany. And now

1589
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:54,640
you're talking about let's get back to the orchids. Well,

1590
01:31:55,840 --> 01:32:04,000
my research, my PhD study was on the pollination of

1591
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:11,119
ani Ema missiletoes. These are loranzoids very and it was

1592
01:32:11,159 --> 01:32:15,319
my it was my first continuous study on bird pollination

1593
01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:21,920
because they're they're virtually all pollinated by members of the mellafogty.

1594
01:32:22,079 --> 01:32:24,319
Those are the honeyeaters.

1595
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:27,319
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, So they got big red flowers.

1596
01:32:28,199 --> 01:32:33,039
Speaker 3: That's right. They have big red scentless flowers and produce

1597
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:35,920
a lot of nectar. And I worked on the breeding

1598
01:32:36,000 --> 01:32:42,520
systems of these, but I went when it was recommended

1599
01:32:42,760 --> 01:32:49,119
I do part of my study at cornerk. Now, for

1600
01:32:49,279 --> 01:32:52,079
some people, they'll know what I'm going to talk about.

1601
01:32:52,159 --> 01:32:57,960
Next to the outside bellbird. In a town called Heelsville,

1602
01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:04,880
there is the C. Colin Mackenzie Fauna Park. It's world famous.

1603
01:33:05,119 --> 01:33:14,199
This is the first zoo that bread platypus m hmm.

1604
01:33:14,319 --> 01:33:19,000
Speaker 1: Okay, So they're getting bang and they're doing they're doing okay,

1605
01:33:19,039 --> 01:33:19,560
So and.

1606
01:33:19,479 --> 01:33:20,399
Speaker 3: So that's right.

1607
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:23,600
Speaker 1: Oh they got they got a nice flora there too.

1608
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:29,760
Speaker 3: Apparently, yes they do. And because they had a program

1609
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:36,680
on conservation of the native marsupials. These include small wallabies

1610
01:33:36,880 --> 01:33:43,399
as well as koalas, they maintained a a refuge in

1611
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:47,439
the back of the zoo. In fact, it had originally

1612
01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:54,439
been a reservation for the remaining Victorian Aborigines. I don't

1613
01:33:54,479 --> 01:33:57,960
want to go into the Jesus.

1614
01:33:58,279 --> 01:34:03,199
Speaker 1: They had were not very nice to the indigenous people.

1615
01:34:03,800 --> 01:34:06,079
Speaker 3: They were, No, they were not. They still aren't, but

1616
01:34:06,159 --> 01:34:10,640
that's another story anyway. Because they had a field station

1617
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:15,920
there of a nice field station run by a creek,

1618
01:34:16,520 --> 01:34:20,439
and that's where I studied. To wait, run what a

1619
01:34:20,439 --> 01:34:22,960
creep creek? Creek?

1620
01:34:23,119 --> 01:34:25,760
Speaker 1: Oh okay, you said, a creep like a midnight toucher.

1621
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:30,600
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, this this, this is a creek uh

1622
01:34:30,640 --> 01:34:35,640
in which Platypus lived. As a matter of fact, Melbourne. Yeah,

1623
01:34:35,760 --> 01:34:37,680
I never had to worry about getting rid of the

1624
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:41,239
garbage because the EMUs came and eat and ate them.

1625
01:34:41,800 --> 01:34:44,520
If you ever, if you want to see something amazing,

1626
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:50,760
watch an EMUs swallow a lamb chop bone. Oh boy.

1627
01:34:50,800 --> 01:34:54,880
But while I was working on these two species, abe

1628
01:34:55,119 --> 01:34:58,399
a pendulum and abie a quandie, which by the way

1629
01:34:58,439 --> 01:35:01,680
to hybridize. I was the first one to describe the

1630
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:06,600
hybrid between them. They had an area that they fenced

1631
01:35:06,640 --> 01:35:12,000
in to keep the marsupials out. It was a glade area,

1632
01:35:12,079 --> 01:35:15,960
and that's where I first found. I first saw in

1633
01:35:16,079 --> 01:35:20,800
great number a number of the Australian orchids which were

1634
01:35:20,880 --> 01:35:25,520
blooming because there was nothing was grazing on them. And

1635
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:32,720
I became very interested, particularly in members of the genus Philomitra,

1636
01:35:33,159 --> 01:35:34,000
the sun orchids.

1637
01:35:34,159 --> 01:35:36,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's talk about the plants now, because this

1638
01:35:36,279 --> 01:35:37,960
is what I want is really this is the meat,

1639
01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:39,640
This is really what I really want to get the

1640
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:42,399
tigue on. So you saw Thelmitra, which doesn't have a

1641
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:45,399
labellum like all the other orchids do. It doesn't have

1642
01:35:45,439 --> 01:35:47,159
a show well it's got a lebellum, but it doesn't

1643
01:35:47,159 --> 01:35:50,520
have a showy lebellum. It doesn't have a modified labellum.

1644
01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:53,680
Speaker 3: Ah, But there are two species that do, and their

1645
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:59,239
Alpine they have a they have a scoop shaped labellum,

1646
01:35:59,319 --> 01:36:04,359
but they have a they have very reduced sculpturing on

1647
01:36:04,399 --> 01:36:09,239
their column hoods Now, let me explain about this. You're right,

1648
01:36:10,000 --> 01:36:17,760
most of the theelamitra orchids show typical radial symmetry of

1649
01:36:17,800 --> 01:36:23,319
their petals and sepals as you see in both flowers.

1650
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:28,439
But what has happened This is something Darwin had a

1651
01:36:28,479 --> 01:36:32,680
look at in the nineteenth century thanks to his correspondent

1652
01:36:33,199 --> 01:36:38,960
are De Fitzgerald, who produced a fantastic Fitzgerald produced a

1653
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:46,159
fantastic book on the Australian orchids. Is that they the

1654
01:36:46,319 --> 01:36:51,159
column the sexual orchid, sorry, the sexual organs in the

1655
01:36:51,279 --> 01:36:56,199
orchid that fused together to form a guynosthmium, which you've

1656
01:36:56,840 --> 01:37:00,399
a word that you've used on your everybody.

1657
01:37:00,399 --> 01:37:01,640
Speaker 1: What a ginos themium is.

1658
01:37:02,279 --> 01:37:06,600
Speaker 3: A ginosmium is where you have fusion between the male

1659
01:37:06,840 --> 01:37:09,159
and the female parts of a flower.

1660
01:37:09,439 --> 01:37:13,680
Speaker 1: Not to be confused with gnostigium, which you get in

1661
01:37:13,840 --> 01:37:16,079
milk weeds, right.

1662
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:20,279
Speaker 3: Which is slightly different. It depends on who's who's fusing

1663
01:37:20,359 --> 01:37:25,640
with what. In orchids, the ginos themium is where the

1664
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:34,239
style of the is, where the style is thick and fleshy,

1665
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:40,319
and the stamen or stamens fuse to it along its

1666
01:37:40,479 --> 01:37:47,359
back well. In orchids, as Darwin pointed out, it looks

1667
01:37:47,439 --> 01:37:51,159
like in the ancestral orchid way back when we're not

1668
01:37:51,279 --> 01:37:57,920
sure there were three fertile stamens ah, But in most orchids,

1669
01:37:57,960 --> 01:38:02,319
what has happened is that two of those stamens have

1670
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:06,600
become sterile. They are a wing like. They are referred

1671
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:11,920
to as staminodia. In the sun orchids, what has happened

1672
01:38:12,239 --> 01:38:20,319
is that the two stabinold lobes, the two wings, have

1673
01:38:20,520 --> 01:38:24,079
had an increased fusion. They fuse to each other and

1674
01:38:24,119 --> 01:38:27,720
they form a bonnet over.

1675
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:30,520
Speaker 1: They got a bonnet. So okay, so we got there's

1676
01:38:30,520 --> 01:38:37,479
three hundred and forty eight species of orchidoidy in Victoria, Australia. Okay,

1677
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:39,760
so let's talk about some of these because these what

1678
01:38:39,800 --> 01:38:43,479
these are, what these are doing is pretty Do any

1679
01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:46,479
of them offer nectar? Do any of them do just

1680
01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:50,119
straight up quote regular pollination or are they all duping

1681
01:38:50,239 --> 01:38:53,000
insects and deceiving them?

1682
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:56,920
Speaker 3: They sure do. There is one genus and this will

1683
01:38:56,920 --> 01:39:01,760
take us back to when we first discovered each other. Joey,

1684
01:39:02,359 --> 01:39:08,279
it's remember the genus present. I say, that's right, and

1685
01:39:08,439 --> 01:39:12,319
you gave a great and it was it was a

1686
01:39:12,359 --> 01:39:16,159
great video. When you were in Perth and.

1687
01:39:17,079 --> 01:39:19,039
Speaker 1: It was on a granite outcropping. It was on a

1688
01:39:19,079 --> 01:39:21,640
micro site. Yeah, it was like surrounded by woodland. But

1689
01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:23,560
then there's this big granite knob in the middle of

1690
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:25,720
the forest and it was growing in a little crack

1691
01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:28,720
in the rock up there with some utricularya and other

1692
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:29,600
interesting stuff.

1693
01:39:30,039 --> 01:39:36,960
Speaker 3: Right. Well, and you and you made a blooper. You

1694
01:39:37,079 --> 01:39:43,199
looked at the flower and you misidentified the parts because

1695
01:39:43,840 --> 01:39:46,279
there was one thing you you just didn't know.

1696
01:39:46,319 --> 01:39:49,399
Speaker 1: It would have to non recipate. It wasn't flipped over

1697
01:39:49,439 --> 01:39:50,640
it most orchids are.

1698
01:39:51,479 --> 01:39:56,880
Speaker 3: In most orchids, the labellum hangs downwards or from the side.

1699
01:39:57,199 --> 01:40:01,159
It looks like an apron or lip in pras of film.

1700
01:40:02,079 --> 01:40:08,600
The flower does not twist in the bud, so the

1701
01:40:08,720 --> 01:40:15,680
labellum stays upright and is like a little plume. That

1702
01:40:16,039 --> 01:40:21,159
is where the pollinator lads and it goes downward to

1703
01:40:21,279 --> 01:40:26,319
feed on the nectar at the base of the of

1704
01:40:26,399 --> 01:40:31,720
the labellum. And in fact, there is another genus which

1705
01:40:31,880 --> 01:40:35,000
is in my book which we've just mentioned, the genus

1706
01:40:35,079 --> 01:40:39,359
Coruna stylus, which is related to press of film. And

1707
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:46,439
we found that yes, some of the species produce little drops.

1708
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:52,119
We think our nectar at the base of the labellum.

1709
01:40:52,319 --> 01:40:59,279
My friend, the photographer Rudy Kueter k u I T

1710
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:07,159
e Are, who does fantastic macro photography of pollinators. He

1711
01:41:07,239 --> 01:41:11,560
has a book called Orchid Pollinators of Victoria, which everybody

1712
01:41:11,560 --> 01:41:15,479
should own. He has found the droplets at the base.

1713
01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:20,239
But the ones that he works in Victoria, the ones

1714
01:41:20,399 --> 01:41:25,600
we've studied in New South Wales, that's me, Wren and Wendy,

1715
01:41:25,720 --> 01:41:29,039
that we that we've studied in New South Wales do

1716
01:41:29,239 --> 01:41:34,800
something very very strange. They produce their nectar drops on

1717
01:41:34,960 --> 01:41:41,800
the staminoes of the of the column. That's no one

1718
01:41:41,800 --> 01:41:44,960
else has really found that before. And that's what the

1719
01:41:45,039 --> 01:41:50,119
chloropids come. The eye flies, the frick flies come down

1720
01:41:50,159 --> 01:41:50,600
and drink.

1721
01:41:50,800 --> 01:41:53,479
Speaker 1: Wait, what is this that produces the nectar and the

1722
01:41:53,479 --> 01:42:00,600
staminos karuna styling. I'm looking, I'm looking at or dollinators

1723
01:42:00,600 --> 01:42:03,920
of Victoria. God, it's ninety ninety euros. I don't think

1724
01:42:03,960 --> 01:42:05,359
I'm going to be purchasing that one. I look for

1725
01:42:05,399 --> 01:42:06,680
the PF bdo.

1726
01:42:06,479 --> 01:42:12,560
Speaker 3: Oh, but I will give I will give you Rudi's

1727
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:18,039
I will give you Rudy's email. There are there, there are,

1728
01:42:18,159 --> 01:42:19,560
there are cheaper roots. Weep them.

1729
01:42:19,680 --> 01:42:21,880
Speaker 1: But it's got a nice it's got a nice image

1730
01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:24,279
on the cover. At this this thinid, is that a

1731
01:42:24,319 --> 01:42:28,920
thinted wasp trying to hump the labellum, the callous, the

1732
01:42:28,960 --> 01:42:30,239
cali studdied lebellum.

1733
01:42:31,199 --> 01:42:31,760
Speaker 3: That's right.

1734
01:42:32,319 --> 01:42:35,159
Speaker 1: What's what, geniuses, I don't know what are the orchids

1735
01:42:35,199 --> 01:42:38,399
out there, but a lot of the labellum or labella,

1736
01:42:38,520 --> 01:42:41,359
a lot of the labella, and these orchids have like

1737
01:42:41,399 --> 01:42:44,920
these like these dark wordy spots on them, especially like

1738
01:42:44,960 --> 01:42:52,039
Caledonian stuff. That's because they're mimicking female wasps.

1739
01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:57,199
Speaker 3: That's right, and in fact, in a sister genus Kylo Glottis,

1740
01:42:57,239 --> 01:43:01,760
also known as the bird orchids, they are producing a

1741
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:07,680
pseudo pheromone that the that gets the males very male, lost,

1742
01:43:08,039 --> 01:43:12,880
very very excited. Now Kingsley Dixon, who we both know

1743
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:18,439
and are fond of, has done some further work and

1744
01:43:18,479 --> 01:43:21,840
he has found that there are some Caledinius the some

1745
01:43:21,960 --> 01:43:25,279
of these spider orchids, and that will also be in

1746
01:43:25,359 --> 01:43:30,000
my book, that also secrete nectar, and they secrete nectar

1747
01:43:30,199 --> 01:43:36,560
on the labellum, on the on the combs, on the

1748
01:43:36,600 --> 01:43:39,760
margins of the labellum. He took me into his the

1749
01:43:39,760 --> 01:43:43,319
living collection he had on going back over ten years now.

1750
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:47,760
He took me into the living collection that he was maintaining,

1751
01:43:48,399 --> 01:43:52,840
and there they were these little droplets glistening on the

1752
01:43:53,399 --> 01:43:55,960
on the labellum, and I tasted them and they're sweet.

1753
01:43:56,079 --> 01:43:59,640
So it looks like, oh, let's go into this. What

1754
01:44:00,039 --> 01:44:05,359
happens in the pollination of these caledonias and these bird orchids.

1755
01:44:05,359 --> 01:44:07,039
Speaker 1: Well wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on hold, that's so,

1756
01:44:07,439 --> 01:44:10,079
there's a couple that's secreted nectar. But the vast majority

1757
01:44:10,199 --> 01:44:14,479
of the members of the orchidoidy subfamily are just deceiving

1758
01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:18,720
in Australia, are just deceiving pollinators. It's fake, it's bullshit.

1759
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:21,000
They're just luring them in there and they don't have

1760
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:24,960
to offer anything except produce this modified labellum that looks

1761
01:44:25,000 --> 01:44:25,520
kind of weird.

1762
01:44:26,439 --> 01:44:30,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, but we're But what we're finding now is and

1763
01:44:30,159 --> 01:44:32,279
this is not my work. This is the work of

1764
01:44:32,359 --> 01:44:35,560
people like Peter West and Who's Still Alive? Mind you,

1765
01:44:36,119 --> 01:44:39,039
I've gotta be careful about who who's alive and who's

1766
01:44:39,079 --> 01:44:43,279
not and Gigsley where they have been finding that within

1767
01:44:43,479 --> 01:44:49,800
some of these genera that we everyone thought, We're completely deceiving.

1768
01:44:50,239 --> 01:44:54,880
There are a couple of species that are still producing nectar,

1769
01:44:55,000 --> 01:44:59,640
such as the genus Diorus, which are are the donkey

1770
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:04,680
or donkey orchids or the twin tails. The yellow ones

1771
01:45:04,840 --> 01:45:08,359
tend to be fake and they are pollinated they are

1772
01:45:08,399 --> 01:45:11,880
pretending to be pea blossoms, and they tend to be

1773
01:45:11,920 --> 01:45:19,239
pollinated by bees that are specialized to forage for pollen

1774
01:45:19,319 --> 01:45:23,960
and nectar on bees. But the white ones don't match

1775
01:45:24,039 --> 01:45:26,439
much of anything, and they make little bits of what

1776
01:45:26,520 --> 01:45:30,119
people call taste or nectar, just enough to bring the

1777
01:45:30,199 --> 01:45:35,000
bees to bring other bees in the more generalist foraging

1778
01:45:35,079 --> 01:45:37,840
bees to drink.

1779
01:45:40,199 --> 01:45:43,640
Speaker 1: Okay, so what are the main let's talk about just

1780
01:45:44,159 --> 01:45:46,159
really que weren't getting a nitty gritty, but what are

1781
01:45:46,199 --> 01:45:50,960
the main ways of orchidoid use? Suffer? The main methods

1782
01:45:51,039 --> 01:45:55,279
through which a lot of these deceptive pollination strategies work

1783
01:45:55,359 --> 01:45:58,920
mimicking female insects. Some of them are thought to mimic

1784
01:46:00,159 --> 01:46:03,920
unrelated plants that grow nearby, mimic the flowers of unrelated

1785
01:46:04,119 --> 01:46:07,159
plants that grow nearby in order that do offer nectar

1786
01:46:07,159 --> 01:46:10,199
in order to get insects in there. What else? What

1787
01:46:10,279 --> 01:46:12,920
else are they doing. They we've got some that that

1788
01:46:13,159 --> 01:46:17,680
uh not only mimic female wasps, but the the their

1789
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:22,840
thig monastic the labellum moves and slams the coollinator. Why

1790
01:46:22,880 --> 01:46:26,880
did that evolve? Like, let's talk about those the hammer orchids.

1791
01:46:27,079 --> 01:46:32,520
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, let's just clarify things for the listeners. Yes,

1792
01:46:32,600 --> 01:46:36,680
there are sex mimics like the Caledonians and the drake

1793
01:46:36,720 --> 01:46:40,760
eas and Skyla glottis and well we're just going to

1794
01:46:40,840 --> 01:46:44,039
stay in the Australian realms of fla bel. But then

1795
01:46:44,119 --> 01:46:49,880
there are the food mimics, which are mimicing other flowers

1796
01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:55,520
that are that would normally produce pollen and edible pollen

1797
01:46:55,680 --> 01:46:59,560
and nectar, and those are as I said, the diuuris orchids,

1798
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:03,520
and the theelamitras that I was studying, they all seem

1799
01:47:03,640 --> 01:47:10,359
to be food mimics. The theelamitras pretend to be the

1800
01:47:10,359 --> 01:47:15,880
sort of flowers that are normally buzz pollinated. They I

1801
01:47:15,960 --> 01:47:22,920
remember I talked about that inflated bonnet over the guynosthenium. Uh,

1802
01:47:23,000 --> 01:47:26,920
that usually comes with little brushes and little papilli. It

1803
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:30,920
looks like an answer releasing its pollen, and that's what

1804
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:34,039
the bees come and shake, but they don't get a

1805
01:47:34,079 --> 01:47:37,960
reward at all. They wind up carrying the pollinia off

1806
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:40,720
on their button. Don't seem to know what's what's going on.

1807
01:47:41,119 --> 01:47:44,239
Speaker 1: Is there a genus nearby that these thelamitra? Is there

1808
01:47:44,279 --> 01:47:51,119
a sympatric genus at these the unrelated sympatric genius at the.

1809
01:47:49,760 --> 01:47:57,239
Speaker 3: Are lots of them? Well, Danella is one.

1810
01:47:57,640 --> 01:48:00,000
Speaker 1: Which is a sparagacy or a sparagaie.

1811
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:02,920
Speaker 3: Yes, a lot of them are what we would call

1812
01:48:03,119 --> 01:48:07,159
pedaloid monocots. And what they all have in common is

1813
01:48:07,640 --> 01:48:11,520
that their bus buzz polony. There's also in the in

1814
01:48:11,560 --> 01:48:15,880
the udaetots there is Tetrathica. And then also there was

1815
01:48:15,960 --> 01:48:19,920
one of my favorite genera which I have studied. That's

1816
01:48:20,319 --> 01:48:23,920
that's the Bertia, the guinea flowers. Those are the ones

1817
01:48:23,960 --> 01:48:29,159
that produced little fascicles of stamens with little toys that

1818
01:48:29,279 --> 01:48:32,439
the tip and the bees come and shake them.

1819
01:48:33,680 --> 01:48:41,920
Speaker 1: Coming throughout Australasia, really arborescent one in New Caledonia, yes.

1820
01:48:42,479 --> 01:48:48,399
Speaker 3: Well, arborescent ones throughout Southeast Asia. And the genus Dialinia

1821
01:48:48,479 --> 01:48:55,159
and the uh and and it's an odd thing about

1822
01:48:55,239 --> 01:49:00,680
Australia itself. There are probably more different species of buzz

1823
01:49:00,840 --> 01:49:06,359
pollinated flowers there than anywhere else in the world. I

1824
01:49:06,399 --> 01:49:14,520
think I know why everyone says, oh, I see they're

1825
01:49:14,560 --> 01:49:17,319
buzz pollinated. They make no nectar and the bee has

1826
01:49:17,359 --> 01:49:19,520
to shake it out. That's because Australia is such a

1827
01:49:19,600 --> 01:49:23,239
dry country and the flowers are conserving their water. No,

1828
01:49:24,439 --> 01:49:26,760
I don't think that's the reason at all. I think

1829
01:49:26,960 --> 01:49:31,359
unlike other parts of the world with temperate subtropical climates

1830
01:49:33,159 --> 01:49:36,560
like here in the Northern Hemisphere, most of our woody plants,

1831
01:49:36,720 --> 01:49:41,279
most of our trees are wind pollinated. Not in Australia.

1832
01:49:41,640 --> 01:49:46,960
Most of the forest is made by nectar producing members

1833
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:51,000
of the Vertesi and the proteac as you well know.

1834
01:49:52,159 --> 01:49:59,359
So in fact, the production of nectar by trees in

1835
01:49:59,439 --> 01:50:07,159
Australia lays the groundwork for buzz pollinated things. The bees

1836
01:50:07,359 --> 01:50:13,680
are going to the nectar producing trees for carbohydrate and

1837
01:50:13,800 --> 01:50:17,079
secondarily for pollen. But when they need lots of pollen,

1838
01:50:17,479 --> 01:50:20,800
they're going down closer to the ground and they're shaking

1839
01:50:20,840 --> 01:50:24,359
the tetrathecos and the danellas and the hyberthia.

1840
01:50:24,439 --> 01:50:28,399
Speaker 1: Okay, well, well, hold, but buzz pollination, which you know. Again,

1841
01:50:28,560 --> 01:50:31,119
is just the vibration of wings. And there's a species

1842
01:50:31,199 --> 01:50:35,439
of Crnodendron in Chile that's buzz pollinated by hummingbirds. Like

1843
01:50:35,479 --> 01:50:39,279
the vibrations of the hummingbird wings shake the anthers of

1844
01:50:39,319 --> 01:50:42,239
this crnodendron, which are poricidal, they've got a hole in them.

1845
01:50:42,319 --> 01:50:44,439
First off, you've got to tell everybody whenever you see

1846
01:50:44,439 --> 01:50:46,960
a hole at the end of an anther as opposed

1847
01:50:47,000 --> 01:50:51,239
to a longitudinal slit, that means it's probably buzz pollinated,

1848
01:50:51,319 --> 01:50:54,800
like tomato flowers, Like potato flowers, anything in the genus

1849
01:50:54,800 --> 01:50:57,159
so Lainum, you'll see it. You'll see a little hole.

1850
01:50:57,520 --> 01:51:01,359
You see. There's a members of eric Ac the blueberry

1851
01:51:01,399 --> 01:51:04,479
family that do that that are buzz pollinated. And this

1852
01:51:04,640 --> 01:51:06,600
is a way, I think to conserve pollen, so it

1853
01:51:06,640 --> 01:51:09,840
can't just all be given away at once by bees

1854
01:51:09,880 --> 01:51:12,239
that come in and they would just take everything. It's

1855
01:51:12,239 --> 01:51:14,279
a way to it's like a ceial dispenser. Again, I

1856
01:51:14,319 --> 01:51:17,159
tell people it's like the cereal dispenser at the motel,

1857
01:51:17,560 --> 01:51:19,359
you know, or you can. You got to pull it

1858
01:51:19,479 --> 01:51:22,479
each time to let you know, so eventually you're not

1859
01:51:22,520 --> 01:51:24,520
gonna get some you know, some fatty who's gonna go

1860
01:51:24,520 --> 01:51:26,399
in there and take like, you know, half a gallon

1861
01:51:26,439 --> 01:51:29,399
of honey a cheerios because he's he'll be there too long,

1862
01:51:29,439 --> 01:51:31,199
so because he can only get it out in little

1863
01:51:31,600 --> 01:51:33,840
whatever that you know is dispense when you pull that

1864
01:51:33,920 --> 01:51:36,279
lever on the and the dispenser thing, it's kind of

1865
01:51:36,319 --> 01:51:40,680
like that. So but why would more nectar production what

1866
01:51:40,720 --> 01:51:42,359
does that have to do with I'm not I'm not

1867
01:51:42,399 --> 01:51:45,000
seeing the selective force in the environment that's selecting for

1868
01:51:45,039 --> 01:51:45,800
buzz pollination.

1869
01:51:47,079 --> 01:51:51,079
Speaker 3: I suggest it has something to do with with plants

1870
01:51:51,119 --> 01:51:56,000
sharing a limited resource, and that limited resource is bees.

1871
01:51:56,800 --> 01:52:01,800
By my crude calculations, I suspense that at least ten

1872
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:06,439
percent or more of the flowers in Australia, ten percent

1873
01:52:06,520 --> 01:52:12,640
of the flowering species in Australia make no flower nectar

1874
01:52:12,920 --> 01:52:16,840
at all. So what do you have. You have a

1875
01:52:17,119 --> 01:52:23,359
canopy that is made primarily of trees that are making nectar.

1876
01:52:23,960 --> 01:52:29,119
You have a shrub layer and a herbaceous layer in

1877
01:52:29,279 --> 01:52:34,479
which they in which probably about ten percent of the

1878
01:52:34,600 --> 01:52:39,960
species are making lots of pollen for buzz pollination, but

1879
01:52:40,039 --> 01:52:45,439
they don't make any nectar at all. It means that

1880
01:52:45,439 --> 01:52:51,560
that trees and herbs and trees and shrubs can share

1881
01:52:52,000 --> 01:52:56,479
the same pollinator, because I have been doing this for years.

1882
01:52:56,640 --> 01:53:02,199
You catch a bee on a buzz pollinated flour, what

1883
01:53:02,279 --> 01:53:05,319
do you find on the bee? On its hind legs?

1884
01:53:05,439 --> 01:53:11,880
You find the pollen of You find the pollen of

1885
01:53:12,439 --> 01:53:16,119
the buzz pollinated flower. But you also find the pollen

1886
01:53:16,600 --> 01:53:18,640
of a nectar pollinated flower.

1887
01:53:18,760 --> 01:53:22,520
Speaker 1: Okay, so, so bees they're eating nectar and pond. You

1888
01:53:22,560 --> 01:53:27,079
said the nectar is like the gas, and pollen is more.

1889
01:53:27,119 --> 01:53:28,720
What are they doing with the pond? Feeding it to

1890
01:53:28,760 --> 01:53:30,520
their young or what they need both those.

1891
01:53:30,520 --> 01:53:33,279
Speaker 3: Are They are either feeding it to their young or

1892
01:53:33,359 --> 01:53:36,199
if they're use social, they're feeding it to their sisters.

1893
01:53:36,359 --> 01:53:37,720
And then they're.

1894
01:53:38,199 --> 01:53:40,680
Speaker 1: The pollen is protein and the nectar is sugar.

1895
01:53:42,279 --> 01:53:46,399
Speaker 3: Yes, well, that's that's very simplistic nectar, as we now

1896
01:53:46,560 --> 01:53:52,239
understand thanks to the late Herbert and Irene Baker of Berkeley, California,

1897
01:53:52,279 --> 01:53:56,520
who first started looking at this. Yeah, it's sugar. Nectar

1898
01:53:56,640 --> 01:53:59,640
is sugar and water. But it also contains a certain

1899
01:53:59,640 --> 01:54:04,960
amount of the vitamins and some amino acids that helps

1900
01:54:05,039 --> 01:54:09,159
keep that helps nourish the adult and keeps it alive

1901
01:54:09,359 --> 01:54:13,640
maybe for a little bit longer. Pollen, on the other hand,

1902
01:54:14,439 --> 01:54:18,880
is depending on the grain, can be anywhere be the

1903
01:54:18,920 --> 01:54:23,760
cytoplasm can be anywhere between ten to maybe twenty percent

1904
01:54:24,199 --> 01:54:28,560
amino acids and lipids. And as I used to tell

1905
01:54:28,600 --> 01:54:32,199
the Australian students, if there's one thing you can't do,

1906
01:54:32,640 --> 01:54:37,079
you can't make a baby bee out of sugar and water.

1907
01:54:37,359 --> 01:54:43,479
Speaker 1: It needs the pollen. Yes, So that's why there's so

1908
01:54:43,560 --> 01:54:47,560
that basically gets so since bees are collecting both, you've

1909
01:54:47,560 --> 01:54:50,159
got to offer. You can't just offer nectar. You've got

1910
01:54:50,159 --> 01:54:55,079
to be producing. So I assume these buzz pollinated flowers

1911
01:54:55,119 --> 01:54:59,319
are producing. They're producing more pollen than like a nectar

1912
01:55:00,199 --> 01:55:02,640
pollinated flour would be because some of that ponen is

1913
01:55:02,680 --> 01:55:03,399
gonna get eaten.

1914
01:55:04,479 --> 01:55:10,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, more pollen and probably more nutritious pollen. Remember the

1915
01:55:10,560 --> 01:55:15,920
levels of lipids, levels of fats and proteins in pollen

1916
01:55:16,479 --> 01:55:19,800
is going to vary according to plant species.

1917
01:55:20,439 --> 01:55:23,640
Speaker 1: So some of these plants, I mean not the anthropomorphise here,

1918
01:55:23,640 --> 01:55:25,359
but I'm gonna do it anyway. Some of these plants

1919
01:55:25,439 --> 01:55:30,680
know that their pollen they've evolved with with you know,

1920
01:55:30,720 --> 01:55:33,000
the with it being true that some of that pollen,

1921
01:55:33,279 --> 01:55:35,279
well a good half of that pond is probably not

1922
01:55:35,319 --> 01:55:38,640
going to serve the intended purpose of pollen, which is

1923
01:55:38,680 --> 01:55:42,079
to serve as the male gametophyte of the of the

1924
01:55:42,119 --> 01:55:46,760
plant and end up pollinating another, you know, for reproduction

1925
01:55:47,119 --> 01:55:51,039
like they've they've evolved with allowing for or I guess

1926
01:55:51,079 --> 01:55:54,720
the pollenais are selected for it. Flowers that produce more

1927
01:55:54,760 --> 01:55:58,720
pollen than you know, a more abundance of pollen that

1928
01:55:58,840 --> 01:55:59,640
is needed.

1929
01:56:00,880 --> 01:56:04,119
Speaker 3: Exactly, and uh, think about it, this is going to

1930
01:56:04,199 --> 01:56:08,319
creep out the audience. Think about it this way. Bees

1931
01:56:08,439 --> 01:56:11,560
are sperm eaters, you know it?

1932
01:56:12,119 --> 01:56:14,760
Speaker 1: I said, wow, do you Well, no, I guess they are,

1933
01:56:14,920 --> 01:56:17,720
but not really, because pollen is not analogous to sperm.

1934
01:56:17,800 --> 01:56:21,560
Pollend's analogous to like a nut, a scrotal sack of

1935
01:56:21,680 --> 01:56:25,119
rinse Well, Rin's previous, Just kidding, Rich's previous has nothing

1936
01:56:25,159 --> 01:56:27,039
to do with it. I just wanted to mention because

1937
01:56:27,039 --> 01:56:28,159
it's a disgusting.

1938
01:56:27,840 --> 01:56:29,520
Speaker 3: You want to if you want to get a little

1939
01:56:29,560 --> 01:56:30,159
crude or that.

1940
01:56:30,520 --> 01:56:34,520
Speaker 1: It's a disgusting thought thinking of Rhine's previous as scrown. Anyway, Okay,

1941
01:56:34,640 --> 01:56:35,159
you know, but you.

1942
01:56:35,079 --> 01:56:38,560
Speaker 3: Know allimation biologist, I love disgusting.

1943
01:56:38,640 --> 01:56:44,840
Speaker 1: But hold on, wait, so so bees are eating plant scrotums.

1944
01:56:45,039 --> 01:56:49,560
That's a good way you could say that. Well, all right,

1945
01:56:50,119 --> 01:56:51,680
is that true? That's correct?

1946
01:56:51,720 --> 01:56:55,960
Speaker 3: Right? Well, no, in my case, I think of the answer.

1947
01:56:56,199 --> 01:56:59,880
It is closer to a scrotum, and I would think

1948
01:57:00,199 --> 01:57:02,560
the pollen. I remember, I.

1949
01:57:02,600 --> 01:57:05,520
Speaker 1: Just wanted to get that on tape. That's all. We're done.

1950
01:57:05,600 --> 01:57:07,880
The podcast is over. Let's go. I just I just

1951
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:09,439
that was the whole point of it. Now go on.

1952
01:57:09,600 --> 01:57:13,239
Speaker 3: Sorry, okay, Well think of what think of of a

1953
01:57:13,319 --> 01:57:18,239
pollen grain. What it is? Yes, it's a particle. It is,

1954
01:57:18,600 --> 01:57:23,560
it's it has a double wall. The outside is a

1955
01:57:23,720 --> 01:57:28,159
natural plastic. It's it's spore a pollen, and it's it's

1956
01:57:28,359 --> 01:57:31,399
polymerized vitamin A in the jestible.

1957
01:57:31,479 --> 01:57:34,479
Speaker 1: But the pollen produces sperm, though the pollen itself is

1958
01:57:34,479 --> 01:57:36,640
not analogous to sperm. There's actually plant.

1959
01:57:38,079 --> 01:57:42,479
Speaker 3: The pollen contains. The pollen grain contains sperm either one

1960
01:57:42,760 --> 01:57:48,960
or two. Uh, pollen either one or two sperm cells.

1961
01:57:49,199 --> 01:57:54,239
What's inside of a pollen grain is going to be

1962
01:57:54,279 --> 01:57:57,840
a number of things. Uh, there's there's cytoplasm. There are

1963
01:57:57,960 --> 01:58:01,760
going to be starch bodies which will be converted to

1964
01:58:01,800 --> 01:58:05,399
help make the pollen tube later on. And then there's

1965
01:58:05,479 --> 01:58:09,600
what we now call the male germline unit, which is

1966
01:58:09,600 --> 01:58:13,319
the vegetative cell, which is acting like a little donkey

1967
01:58:13,600 --> 01:58:20,760
and and and and is attached to the sperm cell.

1968
01:58:20,960 --> 01:58:24,840
So that is what is pushing down the tube and

1969
01:58:24,920 --> 01:58:30,000
getting down into the ovary and into the ovule itself.

1970
01:58:30,279 --> 01:58:33,039
Speaker 1: Right, But the pollen grain is like the nut st

1971
01:58:33,119 --> 01:58:34,159
it's not the sperm cell.

1972
01:58:36,279 --> 01:58:39,000
Speaker 3: Well, you're right, right, it's not the sperm cell. But

1973
01:58:39,720 --> 01:58:44,960
when bees or their larva eat a pollen grain, they

1974
01:58:44,960 --> 01:58:47,880
are not eating the shell of the nut. They can't

1975
01:58:47,920 --> 01:58:52,399
digest that. They're only eating the contents inside, and that

1976
01:58:52,439 --> 01:58:53,520
includes the sperm.

1977
01:58:53,720 --> 01:58:58,439
Speaker 1: But they eat the whole thing though, because they don't

1978
01:58:58,479 --> 01:59:01,199
digest the whole thing. You see where I'm going with this.

1979
01:59:01,199 --> 01:59:03,439
This is an enlightening conversation, by the way to it.

1980
01:59:03,520 --> 01:59:06,680
Hope somebody is listening to this on the speaker at work. Well,

1981
01:59:06,880 --> 01:59:10,319
the pollen is like the scrotle sec and the sperm

1982
01:59:10,399 --> 01:59:13,439
cell is in there, and we're not even talking about

1983
01:59:13,520 --> 01:59:18,159
how uh you know, the the endosperm is triploid. We're

1984
01:59:18,159 --> 01:59:21,920
not even talking about that. That's something I just wanted

1985
01:59:21,920 --> 01:59:25,079
to put that out there so people know, okay, but

1986
01:59:25,199 --> 01:59:32,520
the pollen grains haploid, the sperm cells haploid and h

1987
01:59:34,000 --> 01:59:36,720
But this is where it gets confusing though. So a

1988
01:59:36,800 --> 01:59:40,720
pollen grain is this little thing is covered with the colpy,

1989
01:59:41,319 --> 01:59:44,640
right or it's broken up.

1990
01:59:45,640 --> 01:59:50,239
Speaker 3: Okay, now we're now talking about we're we're getting very

1991
01:59:50,439 --> 01:59:56,560
uh we are, We're going up there, we're going out where,

1992
01:59:57,720 --> 02:00:02,640
we are getting micro we're getting microscopic. Now, the pollen

1993
02:00:02,760 --> 02:00:08,920
grain has an outer wall and an inner wall. And

1994
02:00:09,159 --> 02:00:11,840
but then you have to say, well, how does the

1995
02:00:11,840 --> 02:00:18,680
sperm get out? And the answer is the grade has

1996
02:00:18,840 --> 02:00:27,600
apertures that they will have anywhere from one to several exits.

1997
02:00:29,359 --> 02:00:33,920
These apertures are going to be important. Remember, the pollen

1998
02:00:34,039 --> 02:00:38,960
grain is released in a highly high hydrated form, and

1999
02:00:39,119 --> 02:00:42,359
if it's lucky enough to add to land on a stigma,

2000
02:00:42,520 --> 02:00:46,840
it must rehydrate and that needs fluids have to enter

2001
02:00:46,960 --> 02:00:51,960
through the aperture. So in some pollen grains they enter

2002
02:00:52,079 --> 02:00:58,960
through slits, whereas in others they enter through plores. Now

2003
02:00:59,079 --> 02:01:04,000
you mentioned slits. The slits are referred to as colpy,

2004
02:01:04,239 --> 02:01:10,640
and some pollen grades have both pores, and that pores

2005
02:01:10,760 --> 02:01:13,039
and colpy at the same.

2006
02:01:12,720 --> 02:01:16,479
Speaker 1: Copy are like where the seams come together kind of exactly,

2007
02:01:16,560 --> 02:01:19,000
and the pores are the actual dots like if you

2008
02:01:19,039 --> 02:01:21,560
look up a Google image Church. Okay, So a pollen

2009
02:01:21,640 --> 02:01:26,119
grain lands on a stigma and then it germinates, right,

2010
02:01:26,319 --> 02:01:28,720
it actually Germany. What happens when it germinates?

2011
02:01:29,960 --> 02:01:34,199
Speaker 3: Okay, let's go back a notch. It lands on the

2012
02:01:34,319 --> 02:01:39,319
stigma in a in a dehydrated state. The first thing

2013
02:01:39,439 --> 02:01:42,159
it has to do is take on fluid.

2014
02:01:41,840 --> 02:01:45,800
Speaker 1: Because pollen is dry. That's why you can freeze pollen.

2015
02:01:46,600 --> 02:01:54,119
Speaker 3: Right, and it has to take on fluids offered by

2016
02:01:54,199 --> 02:01:57,399
the stigma. Okay, it hydrates.

2017
02:01:57,680 --> 02:01:59,880
Speaker 1: That's why the stigma of plants, like if you look

2018
02:01:59,880 --> 02:02:02,960
at Hibiscus thigma, great example, because they're really juicy. That's

2019
02:02:02,960 --> 02:02:07,600
why this stigma it looks juicy. It looks in a

2020
02:02:07,600 --> 02:02:09,680
lot of cases depending on what species you're looking at.

2021
02:02:09,680 --> 02:02:11,479
You look at a stigma of a flower, it's kind

2022
02:02:11,479 --> 02:02:15,680
of wet and like you know, got a certain texture

2023
02:02:15,760 --> 02:02:17,680
to it in many cases.

2024
02:02:18,159 --> 02:02:24,439
Speaker 3: Right, So it's taken on fluids, it's taken on water,

2025
02:02:24,680 --> 02:02:27,720
it's taken on a certain amount of sugar, it's probably

2026
02:02:27,720 --> 02:02:32,359
taken on certain enzymes, and its next response is to

2027
02:02:32,439 --> 02:02:38,399
produce a pollen tube, which usually means breaking down the

2028
02:02:38,439 --> 02:02:42,800
starch granules inside the grain and that they are converted

2029
02:02:42,960 --> 02:02:47,880
into a structure into a tube that is made out

2030
02:02:47,880 --> 02:02:56,640
of sporal pollen. That's the that is that is the

2031
02:02:56,680 --> 02:03:02,760
primary component of of a pollen tube. Ah, now we've

2032
02:03:02,800 --> 02:03:05,920
got a tube. Now we have a way for the

2033
02:03:05,960 --> 02:03:11,399
male germline unit, the vegetative cell, and the one or

2034
02:03:11,479 --> 02:03:16,560
two sperm cells to escape. Some pollen grains only start

2035
02:03:16,720 --> 02:03:21,319
with one sperm cell, but by the time they get

2036
02:03:21,319 --> 02:03:26,920
into the tube, the sperm cell divides into two. The

2037
02:03:27,039 --> 02:03:32,760
pollen tube pushes its way into the stigma, into the style,

2038
02:03:33,079 --> 02:03:36,920
and makes its way down into the ovary, but it

2039
02:03:37,000 --> 02:03:43,760
doesn't usually grow as a continuous unit. It starts and stops.

2040
02:03:43,920 --> 02:03:45,680
It starts and stops.

2041
02:03:45,439 --> 02:03:48,760
Speaker 1: But it's only one cell. The pollen tube is still

2042
02:03:48,920 --> 02:03:49,680
only one cell.

2043
02:03:49,800 --> 02:03:53,680
Speaker 3: Right, The pollen tube is technically not a cell at all.

2044
02:03:53,840 --> 02:03:57,840
It has the cells of a male germaline unit inside.

2045
02:03:58,000 --> 02:04:02,079
The pollen tube is simply just the tube mate out

2046
02:04:02,079 --> 02:04:05,960
of spoora pollenin that was made by the interior of

2047
02:04:06,000 --> 02:04:06,840
the pollen grain.

2048
02:04:06,960 --> 02:04:11,079
Speaker 1: But the important part is it's sending down two sperms

2049
02:04:11,119 --> 02:04:17,239
for double fertilization. One that pollinates the avule, fertilize the ovule,

2050
02:04:17,279 --> 02:04:19,000
and the other what is the other one?

2051
02:04:19,039 --> 02:04:23,359
Speaker 3: No, no, no, no, joey, joey. One pollinates the egg cell.

2052
02:04:23,439 --> 02:04:25,560
Speaker 1: The egg cell, the other that's what I made, the

2053
02:04:25,600 --> 02:04:28,119
egg cell in the ovule. I'm sorry, you're right, right,

2054
02:04:28,359 --> 02:04:30,399
And the other does what what's the other one doing?

2055
02:04:30,399 --> 02:04:32,359
This is what I mentioned before. What's the other one doing?

2056
02:04:32,840 --> 02:04:38,079
Speaker 3: Its two polar cells that have fused together. It unites

2057
02:04:38,119 --> 02:04:43,399
with them. You get a triploid cell and this begins

2058
02:04:43,439 --> 02:04:49,600
to in most cases, not orchids. Doesn't happen in orchids. Uh.

2059
02:04:49,800 --> 02:04:54,279
These cells go through fast biosis and this because sorry,

2060
02:04:54,359 --> 02:04:57,600
not myosis. They go on, they go through fast mitosis.

2061
02:04:58,279 --> 02:05:03,119
And this is this is what induces the food story.

2062
02:05:03,479 --> 02:05:06,840
Speaker 1: Endosperm endo little lunch box that goes with the seed,

2063
02:05:06,960 --> 02:05:09,359
like in a bean you have, right.

2064
02:05:09,359 --> 02:05:14,199
Speaker 3: Well, no, actually, here's something. Do you realize beans do

2065
02:05:14,359 --> 02:05:18,319
not have an endosperm. Do you know what happens? The

2066
02:05:18,479 --> 02:05:22,640
endom is absorbed by the two condoleans.

2067
02:05:22,640 --> 02:05:24,439
Speaker 1: Right, that masses. So when you're eating a bean, you're

2068
02:05:24,439 --> 02:05:25,920
eating the catilets.

2069
02:05:25,439 --> 02:05:31,039
Speaker 3: Right exactly. Uh, it's just it's just different. In different seeds.

2070
02:05:31,079 --> 02:05:36,600
In some the the the In some the cadilebans are

2071
02:05:36,760 --> 02:05:40,479
thin and wing like, and they're just there for photosynthesis.

2072
02:05:40,520 --> 02:05:44,760
Shortly thereafter. In the case of peas and beans, though,

2073
02:05:46,279 --> 02:05:50,720
they absorb the nutrients that are produced by the endosperm,

2074
02:05:51,159 --> 02:05:54,119
and that is why they are so fleshy and why

2075
02:05:54,119 --> 02:05:55,479
they're so good for us.

2076
02:05:56,439 --> 02:05:58,279
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait said it again? What is so? What's

2077
02:05:58,319 --> 02:05:58,680
why is it?

2078
02:05:58,720 --> 02:05:58,880
Speaker 3: Why?

2079
02:05:58,880 --> 02:06:02,560
Speaker 1: Why is it fleshing good for Because you're eating the cattleedens.

2080
02:06:02,840 --> 02:06:07,960
Speaker 3: You're eating the nutrients made by the endosperm that were

2081
02:06:08,079 --> 02:06:13,800
transferred to the contileedans. You have nice fat contileedans full

2082
02:06:14,199 --> 02:06:19,760
of amino acids and carbohydrates. And that's what we're eating.

2083
02:06:19,840 --> 02:06:26,479
When you eat a bean, when you have chile con carni,

2084
02:06:26,199 --> 02:06:32,560
the beans are, in fact, the cottonleedens are packed with

2085
02:06:32,800 --> 02:06:38,079
all of the nutrients that were made originally by the endosperm.

2086
02:06:38,159 --> 02:06:42,960
It's different when we get canola oil, on the other hand,

2087
02:06:43,600 --> 02:06:48,319
that is made of the oils that have been rendered

2088
02:06:48,560 --> 02:06:52,199
from the endosperm inside the seed.

2089
02:06:53,720 --> 02:06:56,920
Speaker 1: So okay, so, But the point is is that pollen

2090
02:06:56,960 --> 02:06:59,399
grain still leads to germinate when it gets una statement

2091
02:06:59,439 --> 02:07:03,800
heeds to German and that that pollen tube comes out

2092
02:07:03,960 --> 02:07:05,199
where where it comes out of.

2093
02:07:05,199 --> 02:07:09,439
Speaker 3: The poor or it comes out of one of the apictures.

2094
02:07:09,520 --> 02:07:12,439
It will either come out of a poor or it'll

2095
02:07:12,479 --> 02:07:14,439
come out of a slit that we call.

2096
02:07:14,399 --> 02:07:16,800
Speaker 1: A copus APUs copy.

2097
02:07:18,880 --> 02:07:20,760
Speaker 3: Yes, and the plural is copy.

2098
02:07:20,960 --> 02:07:22,239
Speaker 1: I don't know how we get I don't know how

2099
02:07:22,239 --> 02:07:24,039
we got it where we talked we oh, we forgot

2100
02:07:24,079 --> 02:07:28,119
to mention though too. The Australian Acacia trees, for example,

2101
02:07:28,399 --> 02:07:29,680
don't produce any nectar.

2102
02:07:30,760 --> 02:07:34,159
Speaker 3: Well, their flowers do not produce any nectar.

2103
02:07:33,880 --> 02:07:35,760
Speaker 1: Right, But they've they've got there's a lot of extra

2104
02:07:35,840 --> 02:07:38,960
floral nectaries. The flowers don't produce nectar, right.

2105
02:07:39,840 --> 02:07:43,960
Speaker 3: The Australian acasias are extremely interesting, and I've watched this

2106
02:07:44,199 --> 02:07:49,600
over a period of years. We've dissected the flowers of

2107
02:07:50,039 --> 02:07:53,840
hundreds of species. There is no nectar gland, which is

2108
02:07:54,000 --> 02:08:00,319
unlike the African accasions, which certainly do make nectar. The

2109
02:08:00,359 --> 02:08:05,680
floorrets of a of an Australian occasion therefore make no nectar,

2110
02:08:05,720 --> 02:08:09,680
but the plant itself does make nectar. They have extra

2111
02:08:09,760 --> 02:08:14,880
floral glands, either on their leaves or on their photosynthetic

2112
02:08:14,960 --> 02:08:21,439
branches you can known as pyloads, and this is what

2113
02:08:21,680 --> 02:08:29,359
attracts parasitic wasps and ants which do protect the plants

2114
02:08:29,399 --> 02:08:35,920
while they are in bloom or setting fruit from from

2115
02:08:36,000 --> 02:08:40,000
a chewing and sucking pests. I saw this years ago

2116
02:08:40,319 --> 02:08:45,000
in the Grampians. It was like something out of a

2117
02:08:45,479 --> 02:08:51,319
out of a movie. I was working on the pollination

2118
02:08:51,479 --> 02:08:57,159
of Acacia retinidies the wilda and one day I was

2119
02:08:57,279 --> 02:09:02,000
watching what was going on on the filloads itself and

2120
02:09:02,119 --> 02:09:06,119
there was a skipjack ant. Now we know about a

2121
02:09:06,119 --> 02:09:12,119
certain Australian ants. They're highly predatory. They will have the workers,

2122
02:09:12,159 --> 02:09:17,560
will have stingers. And it had found chewing away on

2123
02:09:17,640 --> 02:09:22,439
a filload was a little green inch worm, a little geometron,

2124
02:09:23,039 --> 02:09:27,760
and I watched that ant grab the caterpillar with its

2125
02:09:27,960 --> 02:09:32,319
pincers and then the ant sort of stood up on

2126
02:09:32,399 --> 02:09:37,000
its hind legs, took the stigure on its ad and

2127
02:09:37,119 --> 02:09:41,920
it rammed the body of the caterpillar, which went limp,

2128
02:09:42,239 --> 02:09:45,039
and it just picked it up and walked away with it.

2129
02:09:45,479 --> 02:09:47,239
Speaker 1: I wonder if it ate it or just dumped it

2130
02:09:47,319 --> 02:09:47,399
or what.

2131
02:09:48,880 --> 02:09:51,239
Speaker 3: Uh No, I'm sure it probably took it back to

2132
02:09:51,279 --> 02:09:52,520
the nest and they ate it.

2133
02:09:53,880 --> 02:09:56,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the extra floral nectaries, I mean you can

2134
02:09:56,640 --> 02:09:58,840
see these on a lot of these, I mean on

2135
02:09:58,880 --> 02:10:01,840
a lot of the legooms like Caama Crysla produces extra

2136
02:10:01,880 --> 02:10:05,199
floral nectaries, which is a native North American genus, But

2137
02:10:05,439 --> 02:10:07,479
you could see them. It looks like a little oval,

2138
02:10:08,920 --> 02:10:11,680
you know, it stands out if you look closely at it.

2139
02:10:11,720 --> 02:10:14,199
But I didn't. I've seen it in a I forget

2140
02:10:14,199 --> 02:10:15,840
what species of acacia it was. I think it was

2141
02:10:15,840 --> 02:10:19,119
in Tasmania somewhere, but I saw it on uh, you know,

2142
02:10:19,399 --> 02:10:21,119
this is like a ruterol plant, Like what are the

2143
02:10:21,119 --> 02:10:24,239
pioneer species of acacias? The ones that just grow on

2144
02:10:24,279 --> 02:10:26,640
the roadside, And I remember seeing it. It wasn't on

2145
02:10:26,720 --> 02:10:30,680
the the philos though, it was on the just like

2146
02:10:30,800 --> 02:10:31,960
right on the stem.

2147
02:10:32,560 --> 02:10:40,000
Speaker 3: Right. There are some that have typical leg you b

2148
02:10:40,000 --> 02:10:43,640
b tennate leaves and you will find the gland on

2149
02:10:44,079 --> 02:10:48,039
the on the pedosal towards uh, towards its base.

2150
02:10:48,239 --> 02:10:51,199
Speaker 1: But the flowers, I mean, the flowers are just producing pollen.

2151
02:10:51,319 --> 02:10:54,880
So they're just producing extra amounts of pollen for pen

2152
02:10:55,119 --> 02:10:57,399
collecting bees. There's no nectar in the flowers.

2153
02:10:58,319 --> 02:11:04,079
Speaker 3: Bees also surface flies and certain flower beetles.

2154
02:11:04,720 --> 02:11:06,279
Speaker 1: Oh you know what, we forgot to mention what we're

2155
02:11:06,319 --> 02:11:10,399
talking about. Orchids too. Is another method they use to

2156
02:11:10,520 --> 02:11:16,520
do pollonaires is mimicking the prey of predatory things like

2157
02:11:16,560 --> 02:11:20,239
hoverflies or wasps. Like the epipactus. It does that. I

2158
02:11:20,279 --> 02:11:23,159
know that's not Australian, but still it's another method.

2159
02:11:23,880 --> 02:11:30,680
Speaker 3: Well, that's a very very interesting species complex. My co

2160
02:11:30,720 --> 02:11:36,600
worker in China, Zumzingren, has worked on this. Almost Daphni

2161
02:11:37,119 --> 02:11:41,840
in Israel, who is still with us, did some of

2162
02:11:41,840 --> 02:11:46,880
the initial work on this. And yes, the labellum looks

2163
02:11:47,000 --> 02:11:52,039
like a little produces little bumps. That the that the

2164
02:11:52,159 --> 02:11:57,319
pollinators normally wasps mistake for aphians or in fact, no

2165
02:11:57,479 --> 02:12:02,119
it's not wasps. The major pollinators are surfed flies. People

2166
02:12:02,159 --> 02:12:06,800
don't realize about surfed flies. They're so interesting because the

2167
02:12:06,960 --> 02:12:09,359
adults eat pollen and nectar.

2168
02:12:09,479 --> 02:12:11,960
Speaker 1: Wait, Peter, I don't think most people. I don't think

2169
02:12:12,119 --> 02:12:14,680
most people realize there's more than one kind of fly,

2170
02:12:15,319 --> 02:12:17,960
especially that in this cunt. I mean, we're such a it,

2171
02:12:17,960 --> 02:12:20,720
we're such a you know, paucity of science education in

2172
02:12:20,760 --> 02:12:24,479
this country. But but what are surfed flies? Tell people?

2173
02:12:24,479 --> 02:12:26,840
What they are? Surf a A S Y R P

2174
02:12:27,079 --> 02:12:32,159
H I D A E. Hoverflies. And then this is

2175
02:12:32,199 --> 02:12:33,880
why I would get into entomology. That is why I

2176
02:12:33,880 --> 02:12:36,920
got the entomology book, because it's got everything by so

2177
02:12:37,000 --> 02:12:39,640
surfeit is a family. I want to know all the

2178
02:12:39,680 --> 02:12:42,640
different families of flies, not just the ship flies.

2179
02:12:43,479 --> 02:12:49,960
Speaker 3: Okay, surfoed flies are often brightly colored. They off people

2180
02:12:50,079 --> 02:12:53,600
mistake them for bees because they have a maybe have

2181
02:12:53,720 --> 02:13:01,520
abandoned abdomen. But surfoed flies have predatory maggots. They eat

2182
02:13:01,840 --> 02:13:06,840
other insects, and their favorite food is aphids and mealy

2183
02:13:06,920 --> 02:13:10,119
bugs because they feel let's be honest, those insect those

2184
02:13:10,279 --> 02:13:13,600
aphids and melli bugs don't get around very much. They

2185
02:13:14,399 --> 02:13:15,520
can't run away. There.

2186
02:13:15,760 --> 02:13:17,720
Speaker 1: I want to mention this too, because this is what

2187
02:13:17,800 --> 02:13:19,680
this is another thing that pisses me off. When people

2188
02:13:19,800 --> 02:13:21,840
just have a hatred of plants and want to clear

2189
02:13:21,880 --> 02:13:24,119
everything and put up lawn is you've got. I mean,

2190
02:13:24,159 --> 02:13:28,760
here's a family of flies that literally eats the negative

2191
02:13:28,800 --> 02:13:31,399
insects that most people, you know, the pest insects that

2192
02:13:31,479 --> 02:13:34,600
really pet you know, really harm a lot of crop

2193
02:13:34,640 --> 02:13:37,239
plants or horticulture, but whatever, and most people don't even

2194
02:13:37,279 --> 02:13:39,680
know these things exist. And don't you know so when

2195
02:13:39,720 --> 02:13:41,680
they take a fucking insect fogger to their yard. I

2196
02:13:41,680 --> 02:13:43,880
can't believe you can even still buy those things that

2197
02:13:44,039 --> 02:13:47,880
like home despot and insect foger. You just wipe out everything.

2198
02:13:48,159 --> 02:13:51,119
These are some of the things you want around that

2199
02:13:51,199 --> 02:13:53,720
you're wiping out when you anyway, keep sorry, go on.

2200
02:13:53,760 --> 02:13:55,920
I just people don't even know what's out there. That's

2201
02:13:55,920 --> 02:13:57,159
what drives me nuts, man.

2202
02:13:57,199 --> 02:14:00,119
Speaker 3: Okay, go ahead, Well let's get back to epipak. This

2203
02:14:00,319 --> 02:14:06,520
also known as the helberine orchids. And yes, some of

2204
02:14:06,800 --> 02:14:12,640
not all. Some epipactus orchids just make nectar and they

2205
02:14:12,640 --> 02:14:15,319
have a normal lobellum and they don't have these little

2206
02:14:15,439 --> 02:14:20,119
dark bumps on them. Others have make nectar and they

2207
02:14:20,479 --> 02:14:24,159
they have these dark bumps. So they get the pregnant

2208
02:14:24,279 --> 02:14:30,239
surfing flies that come in mistake drink some nectar. But

2209
02:14:30,319 --> 02:14:39,239
then they mistake the bumps for the uh for the aphens,

2210
02:14:39,279 --> 02:14:41,600
and they will lay their eggs on them. The maggots

2211
02:14:41,640 --> 02:14:44,319
hatch out and since there isn't any prey food, they

2212
02:14:44,479 --> 02:14:49,479
starved to them. But in China, because Reren has worked

2213
02:14:49,479 --> 02:14:56,279
on this, there's an intermediate to this, the orchid once

2214
02:14:56,359 --> 02:15:01,399
again makes bumps, It makes nectar, but it is also

2215
02:15:01,760 --> 02:15:10,720
infested by aphids. Yes, aphids will suck anything after all,

2216
02:15:13,000 --> 02:15:15,640
Maybe I shouldn't have put it that way, but anyway,

2217
02:15:15,800 --> 02:15:21,279
what happens is the fly comes, drinks nectar, lays its

2218
02:15:21,439 --> 02:15:24,399
eggs on it. But when the maggot hatches out, it

2219
02:15:24,479 --> 02:15:28,760
doesn't starve to death. It simply eats the aphids that

2220
02:15:28,840 --> 02:15:30,079
are on the orchid.

2221
02:15:30,159 --> 02:15:33,119
Speaker 1: Okay, but what happens if the pollinator doesn't show up,

2222
02:15:33,159 --> 02:15:35,760
then the aphids just murked the organ flower.

2223
02:15:36,920 --> 02:15:38,720
Speaker 3: Too bad for that for that year.

2224
02:15:40,119 --> 02:15:43,840
Speaker 1: So this, this orchid really needs the flowers or the

2225
02:15:44,199 --> 02:15:46,640
pollinators around, not just to pollinate it, but also to

2226
02:15:46,680 --> 02:15:49,640
prevent the aphids that it attracts from eating the whole flower.

2227
02:15:50,560 --> 02:15:53,239
Speaker 3: Right at least that seems to be the story at

2228
02:15:53,239 --> 02:15:58,520
this at this level, and more research has to be done. Now,

2229
02:16:00,079 --> 02:16:06,159
let's look at another case of what the orchid is providing.

2230
02:16:06,680 --> 02:16:11,720
Certain orchids are not making are are They're not sex mimics,

2231
02:16:12,039 --> 02:16:17,039
they're not food mimics. They are not making any reward.

2232
02:16:17,199 --> 02:16:21,000
They are not making any edible reward. This takes us

2233
02:16:21,079 --> 02:16:27,039
to the Helbert orchids in the genus coriubus. Once again,

2234
02:16:27,119 --> 02:16:29,279
we've done a little work on this. We've looked at

2235
02:16:29,279 --> 02:16:34,040
the Chinese species, and we've looked at and Rudy has

2236
02:16:34,159 --> 02:16:40,360
looked at the Australian species. Rudy thinks that the that

2237
02:16:40,440 --> 02:16:45,079
the helmet orcans are making subjector of their of their labellum.

2238
02:16:45,319 --> 02:16:52,200
Their primary pollinators are fungus mats. These orchids bloom at

2239
02:16:52,200 --> 02:16:58,360
a time of year in uh usually late winter in Australia,

2240
02:16:58,440 --> 02:17:03,159
in which fungal hiphie are very active and growing in

2241
02:17:03,440 --> 02:17:09,159
the in the to try this layer. In Australia, on

2242
02:17:09,200 --> 02:17:13,559
the other hand, sorry not not notssarily. In China, on

2243
02:17:13,639 --> 02:17:17,639
the other hand, we have a couple of coribus which

2244
02:17:17,760 --> 02:17:22,079
do not make nectar, but they are still being visited

2245
02:17:22,120 --> 02:17:26,920
by male and female fungus mats. We originally thought, as

2246
02:17:27,000 --> 02:17:30,840
everyone did, that the coribus, since they look a little

2247
02:17:30,840 --> 02:17:34,520
bit like a mushroom, they were mimicking mushrooms and producing

2248
02:17:34,680 --> 02:17:39,479
odors like mushrooms. Turns out the odor is not a

2249
02:17:39,799 --> 02:17:46,239
mushroom mimic. Our friend Robert Raguso in Cornell who is

2250
02:17:46,280 --> 02:17:55,559
still with us, do we know rob has studied mushroom

2251
02:17:55,639 --> 02:17:59,600
mimicry in South America with another group of orchids, and

2252
02:17:59,799 --> 02:18:03,760
he makes a point, you have to have certain types

2253
02:18:03,840 --> 02:18:08,239
of compounds made by the orchid that are also made

2254
02:18:08,520 --> 02:18:13,479
by the mushroom, the mushrooms around it. Uh. The conabus

2255
02:18:13,479 --> 02:18:17,639
in China don't seem to do this. What we seem

2256
02:18:17,760 --> 02:18:23,840
to have then is a temporary shack, a little motel

2257
02:18:23,959 --> 02:18:28,120
room for the for the fungusnts to stay in.

2258
02:18:29,680 --> 02:18:31,000
Speaker 1: So temporarily traps.

2259
02:18:32,280 --> 02:18:36,799
Speaker 3: No, there's no trap. It's it's just a little shelter.

2260
02:18:37,159 --> 02:18:43,000
The the fungusnts go in and stay there for a

2261
02:18:43,040 --> 02:18:46,239
while for for whatever reason that they don't lay eggs

2262
02:18:46,319 --> 02:18:52,200
in it. They don't mainten it. Uh, it's a bed,

2263
02:18:52,280 --> 02:18:57,799
but there's no breakfast. And eventually they emerge. Of course

2264
02:18:57,920 --> 02:19:02,479
when they exit they hit the orchids. Guy nos themium

2265
02:19:02,680 --> 02:19:06,920
and the Polindia drops on their back. That will be

2266
02:19:06,959 --> 02:19:08,600
in the book Caribus.

2267
02:19:08,719 --> 02:19:11,719
Speaker 1: I remember, Yeah, I've seen those in uh were this

2268
02:19:11,840 --> 02:19:15,040
all is a New Zealand tesman. What is the there's

2269
02:19:15,079 --> 02:19:19,079
another there's a what is the what is the genus

2270
02:19:19,200 --> 02:19:23,520
of It's a little orchid and it looks it smells

2271
02:19:23,559 --> 02:19:27,360
like hell. It's in South Africa. I have to pull

2272
02:19:27,479 --> 02:19:30,600
up the name, but it's it's a little it's it's

2273
02:19:30,719 --> 02:19:33,280
stinks like hell, and it's pollinated by flies.

2274
02:19:33,799 --> 02:19:36,120
Speaker 3: But could it be what could it be one of

2275
02:19:36,159 --> 02:19:39,239
the theesus they have, They have so many different colors

2276
02:19:39,280 --> 02:19:43,440
and shapes and and and no.

2277
02:19:42,920 --> 02:19:45,280
Speaker 1: It was uh no, I got home. Let me pull

2278
02:19:45,360 --> 02:19:47,239
up the name. God, it was hilarious. This is gonna.

2279
02:19:47,239 --> 02:19:49,680
I'm gonna definitely be putting us in a book just

2280
02:19:49,680 --> 02:19:51,479
because it's it was. I mean, the thing has a

2281
02:19:51,639 --> 02:19:55,360
it smells like a bathroom. It's yes, setrium pumilum, and

2282
02:19:55,399 --> 02:19:59,719
it's the flower looks like a little mouth too. It's hilarious.

2283
02:20:00,319 --> 02:20:04,520
Speaker 3: I don't know about one that sounds like that. Sounds

2284
02:20:04,559 --> 02:20:08,600
like something that Steve Johnson must have studied.

2285
02:20:09,200 --> 02:20:10,239
Speaker 1: The columnist man.

2286
02:20:10,520 --> 02:20:14,280
Speaker 3: He works on the orchards of South Africa and he's

2287
02:20:14,319 --> 02:20:14,959
still with us.

2288
02:20:15,000 --> 02:20:18,000
Speaker 1: So a lot a lot of these fly pollinated flowers too,

2289
02:20:18,159 --> 02:20:21,159
I want to talk about have this kind of modeling.

2290
02:20:21,639 --> 02:20:25,520
It's a convergent trait that a lot of fly pollinated

2291
02:20:25,520 --> 02:20:27,879
flowers converge on whether it's you know, members of the

2292
02:20:29,239 --> 02:20:32,559
sleepy ad you know in South Africa, like the hoodias

2293
02:20:32,719 --> 02:20:37,079
or or Stapelias and then aristolochia. You know, does a

2294
02:20:37,079 --> 02:20:40,239
lot of the aristolochia flowers have this speckling, this like

2295
02:20:40,319 --> 02:20:44,040
purple speckling and modeling, which I assume how is that

2296
02:20:44,079 --> 02:20:48,920
a visual attracted the flies? It just looks like rotting

2297
02:20:49,000 --> 02:20:51,840
fruit or rotting meat. I mean it's it's implying rot

2298
02:20:51,920 --> 02:20:54,040
the mahogany color and then the speckling.

2299
02:20:55,239 --> 02:20:59,040
Speaker 3: You've answered your own question. They it will look like

2300
02:21:00,040 --> 02:21:03,360
what the flies either tend to feed on or lay

2301
02:21:03,360 --> 02:21:07,920
their eggs. And of course the one everybody knows is

2302
02:21:07,959 --> 02:21:12,600
the starfish flour, the stapelia. A lot of people have it.

2303
02:21:12,600 --> 02:21:16,280
It smells awful like rotting flesh, and yet it's it's

2304
02:21:16,319 --> 02:21:21,040
a dozen of our own milk weeds. And it goes

2305
02:21:21,159 --> 02:21:23,840
further than that. This is something the bakers have to

2306
02:21:23,959 --> 02:21:28,680
have a look at. The The nectar that the Staphelia

2307
02:21:28,799 --> 02:21:34,440
is produced is extremely rich in amino acids as a

2308
02:21:34,479 --> 02:21:38,840
piece of a fresh dung wood. So in this case

2309
02:21:39,440 --> 02:21:44,920
it's giving the fly, the obopositing fly, some of the

2310
02:21:45,000 --> 02:21:49,360
nutrients that would normally get from freshly dropped done mm hmm.

2311
02:21:50,120 --> 02:21:52,840
Speaker 1: A lot of the amorpho fellas do that as well.

2312
02:21:52,840 --> 02:21:55,719
I mean they smell terrible. Some of the aeroids, you know,

2313
02:21:55,760 --> 02:21:56,600
the ammorphal feci.

2314
02:21:58,000 --> 02:22:00,200
Speaker 3: I don't think that. I don't think the abor for

2315
02:22:00,280 --> 02:22:01,959
Pholus produces vector.

2316
02:22:01,719 --> 02:22:05,319
Speaker 1: But I have doesn't. It just smells like absolute health.

2317
02:22:05,399 --> 02:22:07,840
It smells like a dead possum and it's.

2318
02:22:07,639 --> 02:22:12,280
Speaker 3: Got But it gets a lot of tourists to the

2319
02:22:12,319 --> 02:22:14,840
Missouri Botanical Garden when it flowers.

2320
02:22:14,879 --> 02:22:17,360
Speaker 1: Well, titanum does. But even there's little ones you could

2321
02:22:17,360 --> 02:22:19,559
just grow in the landscape, you know, like that will.

2322
02:22:21,200 --> 02:22:24,120
What about Arisima? What's what's hitting the arissima?

2323
02:22:27,360 --> 02:22:30,000
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, where we're talking about lords and the ladies.

2324
02:22:31,559 --> 02:22:34,360
I used that I tried to grow. I kept them

2325
02:22:34,399 --> 02:22:38,319
for a couple of seasons. The beautiful Japanese rice cake

2326
02:22:38,520 --> 02:22:45,159
flower that's arthmuscchi anam. I don't really know very much.

2327
02:22:45,360 --> 02:22:53,360
There is a botanist in Japan who get soup. People

2328
02:22:53,479 --> 02:22:57,000
need to look up his papers. He is a pistol.

2329
02:22:57,159 --> 02:23:01,000
He has been producing a lot of fine work lately,

2330
02:23:01,200 --> 02:23:05,680
and he tends to specialize in the little fly and

2331
02:23:05,879 --> 02:23:12,440
that pollinated species, aroids and orchids and other things that

2332
02:23:12,520 --> 02:23:16,399
are part of the shady woodland flora of Japan.

2333
02:23:17,239 --> 02:23:21,120
Speaker 1: Arisima triphylum also known as Jack in a pulpit in

2334
02:23:21,120 --> 02:23:23,040
the Midwest. I mean, this is a this is you know,

2335
02:23:23,079 --> 02:23:25,520
this is like in the forest preserves in Chicago where

2336
02:23:25,520 --> 02:23:29,639
they haven't been ruined by buckthorn is pollinated primarily by

2337
02:23:29,719 --> 02:23:32,879
fungus gnats, which makes sense. I mean, it's got that,

2338
02:23:33,840 --> 02:23:36,399
it's certainly got the coloration for it, but that's definitely

2339
02:23:36,799 --> 02:23:39,120
a trademark. You know, it's one of the things. You

2340
02:23:39,159 --> 02:23:41,920
can look at a flower that's got that speckled modeling

2341
02:23:42,000 --> 02:23:43,920
on it, and you know it's some kind of diptery,

2342
02:23:43,959 --> 02:23:46,040
it's some kind of fly that's hitten.

2343
02:23:46,079 --> 02:23:51,559
Speaker 3: As I understand, it is the only known plant on

2344
02:23:51,600 --> 02:23:55,920
the planet that kills its pollinators and it works like

2345
02:23:58,040 --> 02:24:01,040
Jack and the pulpit. So it's got a much nicer

2346
02:24:01,159 --> 02:24:04,479
name compared to what it does. As I understand that

2347
02:24:04,639 --> 02:24:11,840
it's dioecious. There are males and females, so it'll in

2348
02:24:11,840 --> 02:24:17,639
in the What happens here is that the fungus, the

2349
02:24:17,680 --> 02:24:21,680
fungus mats go to a male one, uh and they

2350
02:24:21,760 --> 02:24:25,319
are released the following day carrying the pollen. But when

2351
02:24:25,360 --> 02:24:28,959
they get to a female one, they enter and are

2352
02:24:29,040 --> 02:24:30,559
never allowed to leave.

2353
02:24:33,959 --> 02:24:37,440
Speaker 1: So okay, So there. I don't how are they never

2354
02:24:37,479 --> 02:24:39,479
allowed to leave? How does this tra how does it

2355
02:24:39,520 --> 02:24:40,399
trap them in there?

2356
02:24:40,520 --> 02:24:43,360
Speaker 3: It has something to do with the architecture of the

2357
02:24:43,440 --> 02:24:48,120
space and spadix. They are trapped inside once they go

2358
02:24:48,319 --> 02:24:53,639
in there. Now, once again, I'm not familiar with the paper.

2359
02:24:53,879 --> 02:24:58,280
Once again, you need to go to an arithmus specialist.

2360
02:24:58,440 --> 02:25:02,120
I know Susan Redder at the University of Missouri and

2361
02:25:02,159 --> 02:25:05,959
Saint Louis was interested in this at one point, and

2362
02:25:06,159 --> 02:25:09,920
of course Shugets who has found this in some of

2363
02:25:09,959 --> 02:25:11,879
the arismas in Japan.

2364
02:25:12,760 --> 02:25:15,040
Speaker 1: That's okay, So why would it Why would it kill

2365
02:25:15,920 --> 02:25:18,440
It can't be a constant thing. It can't. It's not

2366
02:25:18,479 --> 02:25:19,440
like it always kills him.

2367
02:25:19,440 --> 02:25:27,440
Speaker 3: It's probably joey in this case because the fungus that

2368
02:25:28,520 --> 02:25:32,000
is carrying the pollen of the male plant, it is

2369
02:25:32,079 --> 02:25:36,959
not selective for the female to allow its female plant

2370
02:25:36,959 --> 02:25:41,200
to allow it to leave. It's gotta stay there, bag around,

2371
02:25:41,440 --> 02:25:43,440
try to escape and hit the stake of it.

2372
02:25:43,520 --> 02:25:47,200
Speaker 1: Okay. So Arasima Arisima trophylum is dioecious. The plants are

2373
02:25:47,239 --> 02:25:49,360
their male or female, whereas in a lot of orchids

2374
02:25:49,360 --> 02:25:54,360
they'll be proto protogenists. They're like their bisexual inflorescent device,

2375
02:25:54,719 --> 02:25:57,879
but the female flowers go off first and then the Okay,

2376
02:25:57,959 --> 02:26:01,840
so okay, well shit, I didn't. That puts a whole

2377
02:26:01,879 --> 02:26:02,959
new spin on this. So this.

2378
02:26:05,319 --> 02:26:08,520
Speaker 3: It's relatively new. And yes it is a fly trap,

2379
02:26:08,639 --> 02:26:13,959
but nothing is eaten. It's uh, it's simply a case.

2380
02:26:14,079 --> 02:26:18,120
Then you've got the the the fly is carrying the

2381
02:26:18,159 --> 02:26:21,760
pollen that the plant needs. It is not selective for

2382
02:26:22,000 --> 02:26:29,840
the for the inflorescence to allow it to escape.

2383
02:26:29,159 --> 02:26:31,479
Speaker 1: Because if they I mean, why wouldn't it just temporarily

2384
02:26:31,520 --> 02:26:33,479
trap them like the mail plants.

2385
02:26:33,239 --> 02:26:41,440
Speaker 3: Do uh, to ensure deposition of pollen on the stigma.

2386
02:26:41,520 --> 02:26:45,680
Remember it's at random. The fungus that isn't looking for

2387
02:26:45,719 --> 02:26:51,639
a stigma. It's just an obstacle in its way. It's

2388
02:26:51,719 --> 02:26:52,639
trying to get out.

2389
02:26:52,920 --> 02:26:55,399
Speaker 1: You know this, this trapping your pollinators thing is what

2390
02:26:55,520 --> 02:26:59,559
families do this. We got the orchid ac does it?

2391
02:26:59,639 --> 02:27:03,479
The air roids do it? Air ac? I guess the

2392
02:27:03,520 --> 02:27:07,920
milk weeds technically trapped they can trap, uh. You know

2393
02:27:08,040 --> 02:27:15,520
pollinators like stigmatic Sarahpgia does two, Aristolochias do aristokiac reflec

2394
02:27:15,879 --> 02:27:16,879
does two? Doesn't it?

2395
02:27:18,239 --> 02:27:18,520
Speaker 3: Yep?

2396
02:27:19,200 --> 02:27:21,559
Speaker 1: And uh, some gasnriads as well.

2397
02:27:22,200 --> 02:27:25,840
Speaker 3: And something people should know about the the milk weeds,

2398
02:27:25,879 --> 02:27:30,239
the asclepias that they like, they name that a lot

2399
02:27:30,360 --> 02:27:34,520
number of the name they're they're they're pollinators. It's not deliberate.

2400
02:27:35,159 --> 02:27:41,920
But when Retha and I worked on asclepias needy eye

2401
02:27:42,120 --> 02:27:43,600
that needs milk.

2402
02:27:43,319 --> 02:27:45,840
Speaker 1: Weed, Yeah, the rare one, right, super rare.

2403
02:27:47,520 --> 02:27:54,319
Speaker 3: We found that at least ten percent of the honeybees,

2404
02:27:54,639 --> 02:27:57,879
which are not anywhere from ten to twenty percent of

2405
02:27:57,920 --> 02:28:00,000
the honey bees which are not the date of pollen

2406
02:28:00,479 --> 02:28:04,719
of course, would lose a leg when they were trapped

2407
02:28:04,920 --> 02:28:10,479
temporarily and trying to yank out the the pollen area.

2408
02:28:10,760 --> 02:28:12,879
Speaker 1: Right, it looks like that sexy leg lamp that the

2409
02:28:13,319 --> 02:28:16,399
dad brought home for the living room in a Christmas story.

2410
02:28:17,120 --> 02:28:19,760
You'll see like a little wasp blast wasp pre stuck

2411
02:28:19,799 --> 02:28:21,120
in It's pretty funny.

2412
02:28:21,920 --> 02:28:22,959
Speaker 3: I love that movie.

2413
02:28:23,040 --> 02:28:25,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like the wasp still makes it up, or

2414
02:28:25,479 --> 02:28:27,120
that the bee still makes it up, but then the

2415
02:28:27,200 --> 02:28:29,200
leg is stuck in there. But that's not how it's

2416
02:28:29,399 --> 02:28:30,920
that's not intended, that's not intentional.

2417
02:28:31,760 --> 02:28:35,000
Speaker 3: It's not intentional, but that's what happens. I presume when

2418
02:28:35,760 --> 02:28:40,079
when remember honey bees did not evolve with milk weeds.

2419
02:28:40,319 --> 02:28:43,879
Milk weeds are North American, honey bees are are Eurasian.

2420
02:28:44,159 --> 02:28:48,040
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, serves them right coming over here. And I'm

2421
02:28:48,120 --> 02:28:52,239
just okay, I man. I when I was in Ecuador,

2422
02:28:52,280 --> 02:28:55,440
God damn, there were so many gazneriads. I did a

2423
02:28:55,479 --> 02:29:00,440
podcast with John Clark, who studies them fun guys too,

2424
02:29:00,600 --> 02:29:03,959
really really funny human being. But uh yeah, I didn't.

2425
02:29:04,000 --> 02:29:06,440
I had no context yet. I wish man, that's a

2426
02:29:06,479 --> 02:29:11,000
weird family. They're everywhere too, super abundant in the trans

2427
02:29:12,319 --> 02:29:12,959
I understand.

2428
02:29:13,040 --> 02:29:16,200
Speaker 3: There there is a tree Gasnaria. I don't remember the

2429
02:29:16,280 --> 02:29:20,639
name of the genus. It was named after a Greek queen.

2430
02:29:20,719 --> 02:29:22,600
Now I'd have to look it up in one of

2431
02:29:22,600 --> 02:29:27,440
my books. It's I know it's in my I've forgotten that.

2432
02:29:27,440 --> 02:29:29,639
That was in Gods and Goddesses in the Garden.

2433
02:29:30,440 --> 02:29:32,559
Speaker 1: How many have you? How many books you got? Four?

2434
02:29:32,879 --> 02:29:35,280
Three not including the one you just wrote.

2435
02:29:35,319 --> 02:29:40,920
Speaker 3: Well single author books, it's four and of course the

2436
02:29:41,000 --> 02:29:45,639
fifth one is out next year. But also remember I

2437
02:29:45,760 --> 02:29:49,920
did the biology of missiletoes with Falcon Colder. That was

2438
02:29:50,000 --> 02:29:53,879
back in the eighties. And of course Reathan I and

2439
02:29:54,159 --> 02:29:58,799
twenty something other authors. We did, and it's still available

2440
02:29:58,799 --> 02:30:03,239
from University of Chicka Iago Press. That's Darwin's Orchids.

2441
02:30:03,559 --> 02:30:05,639
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, hold on the hold on, because my attention

2442
02:30:05,719 --> 02:30:07,559
span will limit. How many is that total? Four?

2443
02:30:09,440 --> 02:30:12,799
Speaker 3: Uh? If it's four in which I'm a single author

2444
02:30:13,120 --> 02:30:15,479
and it's meant to be popular, bot me.

2445
02:30:15,799 --> 02:30:16,079
Speaker 1: Okay.

2446
02:30:16,479 --> 02:30:20,600
Speaker 3: But the more technical books which I co edited and

2447
02:30:20,639 --> 02:30:26,879
co wrote. There was the Biology of Missiletoes with Malcolm

2448
02:30:26,959 --> 02:30:34,159
Calder and with Retha edens Meyer. Uh we did as

2449
02:30:34,239 --> 02:30:40,239
co editors and co authors. That's Darwin's Orchids Then and Now,

2450
02:30:40,520 --> 02:30:43,000
and that's from University of Chicago Press.

2451
02:30:43,319 --> 02:30:45,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, what are the two pop science books that

2452
02:30:45,799 --> 02:30:50,159
readers couldn't could enjoyed? It could find the Wiley Violence

2453
02:30:50,239 --> 02:30:52,200
Underground Orchids. And what's the other one?

2454
02:30:52,959 --> 02:30:54,000
Speaker 3: Well? There? Uh?

2455
02:30:55,079 --> 02:30:55,959
Speaker 1: Kiss is that it?

2456
02:30:57,120 --> 02:30:59,920
Speaker 3: Yeah? The roses kiss is basically my fake and my

2457
02:31:00,559 --> 02:31:08,000
a basic introduction to pollination biology. Uh.

2458
02:31:08,559 --> 02:31:14,360
Speaker 1: Here, the triegisniad species is Strepto Streptocarpus sexorum. And there's

2459
02:31:14,399 --> 02:31:15,760
another one called Colliria.

2460
02:31:15,879 --> 02:31:21,559
Speaker 3: There's another one. Yeah, yeah, but really, the differences in

2461
02:31:21,799 --> 02:31:26,879
sizes of the plants in the gasniods is really extraordinary.

2462
02:31:26,959 --> 02:31:33,079
You've got those little micro uh, you've got those those

2463
02:31:33,079 --> 02:31:37,559
little micro gasniods in which the the the flower is

2464
02:31:37,600 --> 02:31:40,479
in fact, when it does blue is bigger than the

2465
02:31:40,639 --> 02:31:44,000
entire plant. And then of course you got the the

2466
02:31:44,040 --> 02:31:46,959
tree gasniods. It's it's it's really amazing.

2467
02:31:47,079 --> 02:31:49,840
Speaker 1: Then they're all fucking Herey, there's a lot of epiphytes

2468
02:31:49,879 --> 02:31:52,760
abundant in the tropics, order Lamey a leaves, so they

2469
02:31:52,760 --> 02:31:57,000
got zygomorphic, bilaterally symmetrical, just the fancy way to say

2470
02:31:57,000 --> 02:32:02,000
biletter symmetrical flowers. Like a lot of like I think

2471
02:32:02,079 --> 02:32:03,959
like eighty or ninety percent of the members of of

2472
02:32:04,440 --> 02:32:07,159
Lamey Ailey's the orders.

2473
02:32:06,840 --> 02:32:09,559
Speaker 3: I remember, Yeah, I remember them from my Peace Corps

2474
02:32:09,639 --> 02:32:12,920
days at El Salvador. You found them. You found little

2475
02:32:13,000 --> 02:32:18,399
members of the genus Achimenes. Beautiful where you had a

2476
02:32:18,719 --> 02:32:23,159
natural seep going through some of the old lava boulders,

2477
02:32:23,280 --> 02:32:26,559
they would colonize that and you would they would make like,

2478
02:32:28,760 --> 02:32:32,239
oh these these they would grow in these little patterns

2479
02:32:32,399 --> 02:32:33,959
along the cracks and the seep.

2480
02:32:36,280 --> 02:32:39,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw a bunch in Dominican Republic. I've seen

2481
02:32:39,600 --> 02:32:43,280
a few in uh southern Mexico in the wetter areas,

2482
02:32:43,280 --> 02:32:45,280
and then yet a ton of Ecuador. Of a god,

2483
02:32:45,319 --> 02:32:48,520
they're so weirdt lots of them are the one A

2484
02:32:48,559 --> 02:32:51,879
lot of ones I was seeing in Ecuador. Califfloris too,

2485
02:32:52,000 --> 02:32:54,920
so they just flower right out of the stem. I'm

2486
02:32:54,959 --> 02:32:57,760
still processing, Equador, I need ive, got videos to edit.

2487
02:32:57,799 --> 02:32:59,280
I'm trying to get this other book done. Well, I

2488
02:32:59,319 --> 02:33:02,360
think we I think we did it. That was good.

2489
02:33:02,399 --> 02:33:04,000
It's like two and two and a half hours, so

2490
02:33:05,000 --> 02:33:08,120
good Lord, Well, thank you well. I was ranting for

2491
02:33:08,159 --> 02:33:09,440
a while. I guess you and I are like an

2492
02:33:09,440 --> 02:33:13,239
hour and a half. But thanks for be willing to talk.

2493
02:33:13,280 --> 02:33:14,760
I wanted to call you up and have you on

2494
02:33:14,879 --> 02:33:16,920
here again, and I've been wanting to do it for

2495
02:33:17,040 --> 02:33:19,559
like a year. I just the timing isn't pretty, but.

2496
02:33:19,760 --> 02:33:24,360
Speaker 3: I'm still I'm still hoping you'll get through Saint Louis

2497
02:33:24,440 --> 02:33:28,680
again on either April or May, because I would really

2498
02:33:28,959 --> 02:33:32,840
really like you. But since you're so passionate about geology,

2499
02:33:33,559 --> 02:33:38,120
I would love to get you to the Shaw Nature Reserve,

2500
02:33:38,239 --> 02:33:42,319
which is owned by the Missouri Botantical Garden. I want

2501
02:33:42,440 --> 02:33:45,719
to introduce you to be what what must be one

2502
02:33:45,760 --> 02:33:50,639
of the biggest limestone glades in all of the all

2503
02:33:50,719 --> 02:33:53,399
of the Midwest, and you can see the flora growing on.

2504
02:33:53,680 --> 02:33:55,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm gonna make it out there at some point.

2505
02:33:55,520 --> 02:33:55,639
Speaker 3: You know.

2506
02:33:55,719 --> 02:33:58,200
Speaker 1: There were there were some mobile people at this conference

2507
02:33:58,239 --> 02:34:03,479
I was speaking at last weekend and they were mentioning Shah.

2508
02:34:03,840 --> 02:34:06,200
So yeah, I'll make it out there at some point.

2509
02:34:06,239 --> 02:34:08,200
But yeah, and I'll be I'll be stopping by to

2510
02:34:08,280 --> 02:34:13,520
see you as well. Anyway, So yeah, I think I

2511
02:34:13,600 --> 02:34:16,120
might have a bury Specimens to drop off their two again,

2512
02:34:16,159 --> 02:34:19,120
I don't know, but anyway, Pete, thanks a lot. Thanks,

2513
02:34:19,159 --> 02:34:23,280
I really appreciate this as always, my dear friend. And yeah,

2514
02:34:23,319 --> 02:34:25,239
I'm stoked to look at your books. So what's the

2515
02:34:25,319 --> 02:34:27,159
name of your book? The new one coming out again?

2516
02:34:28,399 --> 02:34:33,040
Speaker 3: Once again the it doesn't have a set name, It

2517
02:34:33,239 --> 02:34:38,319
only has a working title. The working title was are

2518
02:34:38,479 --> 02:34:44,920
still is Unloved Pollinators and their Flowers with a subtitle

2519
02:34:45,159 --> 02:34:48,120
more than the Birds and the Bees. But I think

2520
02:34:48,280 --> 02:34:52,120
my editor wants to make a change, and I'm he

2521
02:34:52,319 --> 02:34:56,520
knows the Australian audience better than I do, and I'm

2522
02:34:56,559 --> 02:34:57,399
not going to argue.

2523
02:34:57,879 --> 02:35:02,000
Speaker 1: So study study Unloved Pollinators or I'll club you with

2524
02:35:02,159 --> 02:35:06,000
something heavy and rusty. Okay, all right man, Well, thanks

2525
02:35:06,040 --> 02:35:08,120
a lot, and everybody else have a grocery to go

2526
02:35:08,159 --> 02:35:08,600
for examply