Speaker 1: Hello, ladies, gentlemen, Welcome back, and welcome to the final
episode of the GV Tenure Retrospective Special Editions. I'm the
birthday boy tras Now, and I'm joined by I am
the actor kirklum Patzer, I am Dylan Muss I am
the doll Taylor Field. Yes, ladies, Jim and as I said,
this is our final conclusion, our final chapter of Who've
said Before You've heard of spiel We do many retros
time with stuff, time movies, franchisees, patrons pick them, but
we want to pick them. We want to get our
measly hands in there. So what we've done is we
all picked a movie. I picked Shame Taypic, Wrong Turn two,
Dead End, don't pick the Big Lebowski. Review those all
did the whole retrospective, you know, format reviewed them, talk
about rate them, trivia, the whole shebang. And here we
are to end all off with I was just trying
to do no I was wrong, never mind, I was
gonna say, I was trying to find some quick way
to be I guess the newest movie. But no it's not.
It's right in the middle of them the game. It
actually might be the oldest movie. I think it's nineteen
eighty seven David Fincher. So there you go, let's see
David Fincher. Yeah, nineteen ninety episode is actually the oldest
movie we're talking about in this retrospective. But the great
David Fincher The Game. So obviously Kirklin picked this, but
we're gonna leave hm last year why he talked about this. So,
mister Muss, hello, did you what do you think of
this movie? You've seen it before. Also, I know you've
seen probably some things of David Fincher. We just did it.
We reviewed Alien three last year, which is also not
the greatest you know, comparison point. But yeah, what did
you think about this movie? You've seen it before? Tell
us your story with the game?
Speaker 2: Yeah, very short story, because I had never heard of
this film until Kirkland picked. I mean maybe it's been
mentioned when we've just been talking about Fincher like in
the in the past, but never really like thought about it,
never looked it up on IMDb, and never really you know,
put mental effort into considering what it actually was. And yeah,
for Fincher, I've seen yea, I guess seen Alien three.
I've seen the killer Killers?
Speaker 3: What was that was just a killer? Yeah? Gone Girl?
He did? What are his other like big dog ones?
Speaker 1: You haven't seen Fight clubber seven yet? Right across? Yeah,
social network, I feel like you've.
Speaker 3: Probably seen, right, seen that.
Speaker 1: Yeah that was Benjamin Button, Brad Pitt Baby old man
Button by Button yet.
Speaker 2: But yeah, So anyway, I've seen, you know, a handful
of disguised movies, really great career, really interesting mix of things.
But I feel like, you know, the peak there is
probably Gone Girl in terms of being like this big
mystery thing and you know that is like based on
a book or whatever. But I think it's interesting to
go into this one and it kind of being a
similar thing of like this big kind of this big
story to kind of unravel and like you know, twists
and turns and all that sort of stuff. So this
is a fun one to go back to.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 2: It's probably the oldest one I've seen of his maybe
like Alien, but you know, we're not gonna we're not
gonna count Alien for his.
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, this was a surprising movie in a sense.
I don't know if I've ever seen in Michael Douglas's name, right,
I always mix them up with Michael Kane and other
actors that have generic names like that. I don't know
if I've ever seen him in like a leading role before,
so I think that was like a fun surprise. I'm
sure he's done a bunch of great movies over the years,
but I don't know if I've ever seen him in
that leading man role. I just know him as Hank Pim,
you know, so it's kind of fun to see him
in like this different kind of role. I enjoyed this movie.
I think it was a fun ride. Obviously, it's an
extremely wild ride, crazy times. I love the Truman Show
to get like the similar idea of just like everyone
in on this thing except for one guy is like
a fun idea, and obviously that's more comedic, whereas this
is much more dour and serious. So yeah, it's a
really fun time. I think in terms of it being
this kind of movie where you're never really supposed to
know what's going on. Even though it was my first
time viewing it and I know spoilers, I kind of knew.
Speaker 3: What was gonna happen always, and I never really.
Speaker 2: Felt like I was too surprised, and I always kind
of I don't know, if I. I guess we're just
opening up spoilers you're read at the beginning, But I
kind of feel like I knew exactly was going on
with the brother from the beginning. He knew it was
going on with like the lady friend character to use
the big lapasky verbage here, So yeah, I think that
was maybe like a bit of a detractor from us.
I never really felt like I was too shocked by
anything in here, and I got a lot of questions
in terms of characters and motivations and revelations that happens
towards the near the end. But at the end of
the day, I think this movie is still an extremely
fun ride. Obviously, it's like crazy and like the places
we go, the people we see, the insane things that
are happening are just a really really fun ride. So
I had a good time with this one. But yeah,
it was kind of a complete shot in the dark,
random movie I'd never really heard of before. So kind
of fun though to knock off one of those earlier
Fincher ones for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for I'm not sure when they'll come up again
in the future, but from like the late eighties to
the mid nineties, Michael Douglas was one of like the
top leading guys like Wall Street, basic instinct, failed traction.
I feel like I'm missing another one in there. But oh,
a perfect murder because he's he he's great at playing
and I guess I'll go I'll just go into it.
He's great at playing the very charismatic, very likable, but
ultra douchey type of lead, and all those ones are
that type of way where it's like, okay, like you
like Douglas because Douglas is one of my favorite actors.
I love the way he speaks, I love the little
isms he does. But there is just he can just
turn to the villain just like that, you know. And
that's the good thing with this story. I don't know
when i'd seen this, i'd seen this early on, because
I think I had seen I really can't remember. I
feel like, I, yeah, I think I saw a Fight
Club and then seven and finally Aft. We're just talk
about the Cohens. It was like that where, Okay, I
saw two movies that I really like. Now I to
go into everything, and I think it was in that
collection of I just watched a bunch of stuff together
and then revisit it kind of multiple times throughout because
people have probably heard me talk about this before. Champain
at one point, to me, was the greatest actor of
all time. I don't know if I put that now
because his later career not as great. I'm excited for
another battle. What the hell? What is that one battle?
Out for another he's in there. I'm really excited for
that coming up this year. But Sean Penn, who's not
in this movie that much, but he was just a
fucking jug or not in the two thousand Man her
two names.
Speaker 4: He's on the poster even though he's not in it much. Yeah,
I know he's not Sean Penn, though he got absolutely.
Speaker 1: And just wait till we get Trivia. There's a whole
controversy about how Sean Penn got that role almost cost
him a lot of money. But yeah, no, it was
like even then, we just talked about, like in the
The Coen Brothers, like the Oscars. The next year he's
in the Best Actor or his best picture Best Actors scenario.
So I was always intrigued by that sense. And I
love Fincher's style, I love the colors, I love just
most of his movies That's why something like Benjamin Budden
feels a little bit different. Have this dread, even if
they end up having not like a terrible result, there's
just a cloud around it. I think he kind of
recaptured that game with the Killers. We'll see what he
does with his American Squid game. I don't know what
they're gonna do with that. But David fincher Is says sport,
He's in Why My Mount Rushmore just my favorites. I
love pretty much everything he does. And even then, other
than fucking mank, everything else is a good movie if
we're not counting Aliens three. But with this movie, yeah,
I really enjoy this movie. I think I do agree
with Dylan where I think, even when I saw it
the first time, figure like it's always gonna be what
it is, and I always wonder it's like, Okay, is
that the movie's fault or is that just because at
this point I've been through the Saw franchise, like all
these things right where it's like there's a bunch of
movies that I've seen that have kind of set me
up for what's gonna happen here. So when I'm watching
me from nineteen ninety seven, it's like, okay, here it is,
but it's a fun journey. We won't talk about too
much maybe next year, but I love and it's part
of the reason with our second movie. I love a
movie where a main character has a situation and didn't
know what the fuck's going on, and there's all these
different realities presented to them and they really can't figure out, like, hey,
are they crazy? Are they being gas lit? Is this
stuff really happening? And I think Douglas does a great
job of having to pull all that off, these putting
many situations that I especially the hotel room, just have
such a ball with them, just like they put they
do put this man through the ringer to get him
to be a better person, which I think they could
hit on a little harder, but that is the point
I think they do show, which we'll get into the
progression of this character where the first act he's very
cold and treats people that are below him in class
very poorly. We're near the end. That's not so much
because that you could have I almost made this a
little bit little, a little longer, even though I think
there's you know, ninety nine and seent movie when he
wakes up homeless on the beach. I think for a
while the movie like stalls for like too long, like
they kind of I think the third act there just
takes its time a little bit. So I think that's
my issues there. And I do think it gets a
little two grandiose, it gets a little too saw John
Kramer of like there's a lot of planning, Like there's
certain things like Okay, this would completely make sense, but
there's other things where it's like, you know that roof
that that's a big leap, no pun intended, you know,
but hit a backup plan right if he didn't, they
always got a backup plan there. I accept him. Am
I guess, yeah, this is a multi billion corporation doing it.
But no, it's still a great time and uh yeah, no,
I I enjoy watch this. I don't. I don't know
like what the repetition is. I feel like I watch
it when I'm in a Fincher mood. Funny enough, I
just watched this last year because I was in a
mood at Public Netflix, so watch again. So it's pretty
fresh in the mind. And yeah, I was wondering if
that was gonna hurt my liking of it. Because I remember,
Oh that happened to me with The Empty Man. Do
you guys remember that movie The Empty Man that we
watched Patroon Clay got us doing. That's one where I
watched the year before, really didn't like it, and then
like four months later you're watching again at least the games,
like okay, seeing before and I still was worried of like, okay,
do I like it that much? To see it within
I'd have to check my letterbox and no, still stood up,
still really enjoy it, so uh yeah, and it's I
think it's also just because I'm a big Douglas guy
and uh no fun score and whatnot. But uh, tear Field,
what's your store with the game? Uh?
Speaker 5: You know, I I had not heard of this, never
seen it before. As far as Fincher films go, there's
a few that I've seen, like Alien three, Benjamin Button.
I really like The Killer Gone Girl. I want to
rewatch that one because I remember seeing it and enjoying
that one Panic Room. I did not realize that was
a Fincher movie, but I always remember, like I really
really enjoyed that one.
Speaker 6: That was a good, good one. But yeah, this one
is yeah, interesting it's.
Speaker 5: I I have questions.
Speaker 6: I'm like you didn't.
Speaker 5: I got questions about certain things, and I had to
do some googling when I got to the end of it,
because I was sure about just the motivations for what
they were trying to accomplish, whether or not it was
it seems like it's kind of split down the middle
between it was trying to make him a better person
versus him trying to come to a realization of his
father's suicide. And maybe if you could even argue it's
one of the same journey, it depends on your perspective
of this, I guess.
Speaker 6: So there's a lot going on. I just there's a
lot of tom foolery.
Speaker 5: Going on this movie, and that made me think, oh,
this is you know, Kirkland would be doing some tom
filler if he and if you run of the company
he's he's fucking around doing I'm gonna come to.
Speaker 4: You like Sean Penn one day.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've many done this to Taylor a
couple of times in his life, like man, him, think
one thing's happening and it's not happening, you know, Like
I've gone to his.
Speaker 5: Family ambulance and allously, everyone leaves and I'm just stuck
at an elevator, shut off the experience here, you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, But I mean that at its core, I I did.
Speaker 5: I have a good had a good time just with
the the adventure and seeing what Michael Douglas had to
overcome and what he had to do.
Speaker 1: But uh, I.
Speaker 5: Don't know if I'm necessarily gonna race to rewatch this
anytime soon, but I'm glad to say that I've I've
been able to watch it because I think it's it's
I recommend that I think it's.
Speaker 6: Worth the watch.
Speaker 5: There's some really cool scenes in here, some really trippy
ones and whatnot, and just yeah, some cool ideas that
you know, it's it's one thing if you put in
a script, when you actually put it down and you
actually get to act it out and see it on
the screen, it's it's a whole other thing. So I
like what they were what they did with this, and
I think it's at its core they.
Speaker 3: Try to.
Speaker 6: Give you, or at least put like a happy spin
on this.
Speaker 5: Just this guy who's super rich and life is just
so and whatever, and.
Speaker 6: It's just going through the motions.
Speaker 5: And I think for people to have a lot of
money in this position at least this guy where life
is just very much blah, And there's this idea in
this concept of like, hey, this is something that's going
to be a little bit spontaneous, like and I'll give
it a try. And I like how he kind of
disregards it, but then he kind of gets involved with
it and tries to see what it's like. But even
when the first part where he's in there and it's
just doing the whole like testing thing, and it's just
such an inconvenience that sets the stage and you kind
of just tell like, Okay, this is just going to
be such a this is the game you're setting upfore
you can already you know that this is just going
to be a nightmare moving forward. But I mean, well
evens to be like really nightmeric.
Speaker 1: Even to the point, like I love the little detail
they turn him down and when he talks to his brother,
he's like, yeah, actually, I h I got time for
this game. I'm sorry, thanks for the president all, but
I'm not really gonna go look into it. Like it's
just like he's just so egotistically he didn't want any
he had no interest in this present to begin with,
and then when it says, oh, he can't have it,
that's the good verse psychology of the test, you know.
So Kirkham Patser, why are we talking about the game
today here in July twenty twenty.
Speaker 4: Five, twenty five. Well, it's a couple of days earlier than.
Speaker 1: Almost a thirty year old movie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, crazy, I'm almost a thirty year old man. And
that makes sense because this this movie has a lot
of origin tales to my film Journey. I feel like, Travis,
you make the comparison of like Goodfellas being like your
film that got you into cinema, and just like you know,
same diff Julian, I only told the.
Speaker 1: Story like a dozen times.
Speaker 4: Sorry, man, I wasn't listening, But yeah, I I I
attribute a big like I think, which is what my
likes are in general, with whether it's like movies or
just history games things like that to my dad, and like,
I feel like the mind Bendi genre of films like
has like just always been a deep, uh just appreciation
that I have when it comes to to films, not
so much of like after I watch my Bendy movie,
this one being like my first exposure to it, I'm like,
oh my god, like cinema, I'm gonna I'm gonna start
writing scripts now, you know, going on to the Travis
Snell route. But like it just made me think about
movies in a different way. Like I used to just
eye candy, you know, action movies, and it's just like
as long as there's moving action set pieces on, like
I'm gonna enjoy it. Like this was like I'm gonna
actually sit down and be fully invested with what's going
on with the dialogue and like looking for details and
then getting to the end and just being like what
the fuck that I just watched and very much had
that the first time I saw this. Me and my sister,
yeah watched it I think together or she watched it.
Then we watched it together afterwards, but something something along
those lines. So like really early exposure to this movie,
which clearly went completely over my head as a young kid.
There's just so much like especially at the end when
like everything's just being like unraveled to you. It's interesting though,
how you guys were mentioning like okay, like they really
set it up in a way that you can piece
together kind of what is happening and on like more
recent viewings. Now, I mean, obviously I knew what the
ending was, so I'm not really surprised by it, But
I just appreciate kind of their attempts to like throw
like wrenches in the cogs on like it's okay, like okay,
I definitely know what's happening here, but then they like
explain something a little bit, like later on when they
they say that he is like a real gun and
it's like, Okay, I know this is a facade. It's
been a ficau the whole time, but it's like, holy fuck,
he actually might have a real gun here. And like
I just those little moments, like there's just different iterations
of like fucking with you, and it does get to
the point where like, Okay, nothing's real, like this is
after like even when he after he jumps, it's like,
is are they still fucking with him here? Like I
feel like if I would be in that situation, I
might just be permanently mentally fucked because I'm just always
thinking the whole world, you know, it's like a Truman
Show situation. So but no, I think on more recent viewings,
I've just been able to appreciate the acting definitely like
Michael Douglas is just he's just such a killer of
a lead. And I think this role in particular is
just such a great highlight for him because he I mean,
he's he's our main centerpiece, but he just goes on
such a wild ride and from where he is in
the beginning of the film to the end and everywhere
in between, like he's just bringing it one hundred percent,
whether it's him being super stressed, him being just that
total like rich, snobby douchebag that he's in the like,
like he's just so great. I think the score in
the soundtrack is like such a highlight for me too,
something that's really hit me in recent viewings. It's just
such a great like mysterious vibe. There's a certain theme
I can't I don't know what it's called, but it
just comes in numerous times throughout the film and it's just,
I don't know, it just just sets you in that
like dour mood and like Travisy Mitchell is just like
the look of what this film has, Like it pairs
so well with the soundtrack that they have in there.
But no, I think the main reason why I picked
to today is just because, Yeah, like this was like
the main pillar on like my enjoyment for those twisty
genre whether it's I mean, like twelve Monkeys. That was
another one my dad showed me as a as a
younger kid, one that definitely I needed like multiple viewings of.
But like to today, like when I when I have
a movie like that, like Tenant Man, I've seen that
movie like twenty times, I feel and I still don't
understand it fully, but like fuck, I just enjoy it
more and more I watch it. Source Code would be
another one. Out shout out Looper. You know we we
we did a retro on that one, so where it
was in our retro series. But yeah, I I just
have such a there yougo, Golden Geese, That's what it was.
I just have a yeah, a certain love for that
genre of films and this was like the main setting
point for it. And uh also back in the day
when you know, we would acquire a movie legally for sure,
but then we would have it on a blank disc.
For some reason, my dad wrote the game on it
and then he drew the clown face on the disc itself,
and like, I mean, I never liked clowns, but that
was just so terrifying flipping through the giant like binder
of DVDs and you just see that clown face there,
like that just ingrained in my head.
Speaker 1: You're gonna put it in. Michael Douglas Cann start talking.
You're like, so, Kirkling, yea, oh.
Speaker 4: My god, what the fucking whim ship talking to me?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And I think you're talking about like a couple
beats back where you're talking about some of the things
they do for the Truckerer. I think what does make
this movie more enjoyable for me versus the route they
could have went is like continually throughout the movie, Michael
Douglas thinks the game is happening, but doesn't know exactly
when and when it was, because either you could have
done like a twist where that interview goes wrong and
then they never say anything about the game. That's the
end of this, right, that all was all game the
whole time. He didn't know, or like after act one
you could have dropped it and then it could have
went into like the because there's a scene where he
falls asleep and then once he wakes up it's the
next day and he's kind of just doing like his
real life stuff for a while, right, Like it's just
back to like regular life, so same thing. There's a
couple of times they could have dropped the game aspect
and just try to play it out, but it would
have not worked, especially if this guy who's supposed to be,
even though he's an asshole, everyone says, you know, very intelligent,
very smart, very witty shit like in this one too, right,
there's like little key chains of a dolt and he's
picking it up. So clearly they've written in me a
character that is cogniz of a lot of things that
other people might not be looking out for. So that's
where I enjoy that. The whole time, he's kind of
he's always going back and forth if it's the game,
And I think what I like the most about this
is that what the you know, I never thought it
was not going to be the game. I think there's
there's the tail two endings because I think that more
shocky ending is him a shooting champenn and it's not
the game, And I don't know what route is better
that way because that would have been something different. But
in the third act, I like that they turn the
game into all this. It was a game, but now
they just use it to fraud you, you know, like
that's so I'm trying to do a twist within the twist.
So I like that being the twist that Okay, actually
we're not frauds. It is still the game. But I
like that portion of, oh, yeah, this thing we signed
it up for, actually they're just taking your money and
all this stuff, And so I appreciate all the little
things they put in there too. Yeah, change it up
a little bit, because you could easily just try and
make it a whole twist. This movie would have been
much lesser for it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, one hundred percent. And I think a real
big key thing that they do, like they make the
decision early on, is that he actually interact with some
people that went through the game, like obviously Sean Penn did,
but you but like, yeah, like when he's at like
the country club whatever it is, and those guys talking
about it, and it's like, Okay, clearly these guys aren't defrauded,
they're not dead. So then during the adventure you kind
of have that in the back of your mind of like, kay,
people like this can't just be a scam or like
they're actually out to murder him or something. But like
if you don't have that sequence at the start of
the film, you could just think that's what it is,
like like what you said, trav is like the version
of the story where they are just defrauding him and
this is just terrorists after him or something like it.
Like it's just an action movie at that point. And
then you could get to the end and he shoots
Sean Penn and it's just like a total mind fucking
that sense. But I love how it's okay, no, like
we we know that this is a game, you know,
no punit or whatever it is, but like like there's
like a structure, like, hey, there's gonna be a start,
there's gonna be an end, even though it ramps up
so much to the like by the end that he's
just questioning everything. He goes to their facility, sees all
the actors enjoying their lunch, and he's just like they're
with a gun. But like, I don't know, like a
lot of the movie goes on. Maybe you're not thinking
about that earlier portion of the film, but like still
that's in the back of your mind of like there
is something that's gonna be revealed here. I'm you know,
I'm sure some people maybe weren't as affected by the
twists as much as others, But I just appreciate that
so much more because they throw so many little curve
balls at you along the adventure of Like, Okay, I
know that this is a trick, but like, this is
still fooling me even though I know that it is
a trick. So I totally appreciate that. Again, just on
more and more rewatches.
Speaker 2: Where is this in your Fincher ranking? I think you've
seen a lot more of his movies than.
Speaker 4: Oh gosh, I mean, it has the most nostalgia for me.
Like Fight Club, that was another early exposure to my
dad showed me, but like I it didn't like hit
me in the same way that this one did because
it just this one blew my mind, Like I just
couldn't believe all the twists and turn that we had
as a as a youth member of the youths. The
Fight Club was just like a badass movie more so,
but it didn't like stick on to my bones, you know,
my spinal cords. Like this movie is, I mean, Gone
Girl's phenomenal film, but I really haven't rewatched it that much.
No Country and Old Man I think will always be
my number one.
Speaker 1: They didn't direct that one.
Speaker 3: That's crazy.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I'm crossing over to the Coen Brothers
like we did two reviews tonight or something.
Speaker 1: My god, I'd love to see that girl. That'd be
a fun cast to pick the flip movies like the
co like Man bo I'd love to see Dave Fincher
do the Big Lebowski. I'd love to see the Coen
Brothers do the Game because the game would all be
like yeah, like do like uh like all that the
Bowling Alley conversation but it's all like with the rich
white assholes and they're like I love the game. Yeah,
the game, And then like the big O'boosi's mystery is
like gone, girl level works. It's like where is this briefcase?
Like I would love I would love to see that universe.
Speaker 4: Never mind then, so I don't know, I'd have to.
I'd have to look at them all because like direct
I've seen, but like it's ninety six of TV shows.
Speaker 3: And music videos like music videos and.
Speaker 1: Death love death and robots, but still quite a quite
a bit of stuff. So, Zodiac, did you ever see Zodiac.
That's another great one too.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah with uh downies in that one, right I did. Yeah,
that sounds like it has.
Speaker 3: A good mystery to it.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's was my man, it's just my genre
of films. I gotta watch more of them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had lots of music videos.
Speaker 1: My god. Yeah, we've we've definitely done been down this
road before.
Speaker 4: Is this the one that did oed toilette or something
with Timothy Timothy s Or is that Scorsese's.
Speaker 1: Show me or sorry, that's Scorsese. We know it's right
and fuck as I hit the upcoming. This guy's directing
The Adventures of Clibb boof totally for we're literally getting
what we just talked about, the whole like swapping a thing.
You're getting a Tarantino movie in the world of and
he wrote the script. But Fincher's doing that, which I've
said before. We'll see I'm the camp of Like, this
is gonna be a while, like to me, very different styles.
So that's that's interesting. So we'll be talking about that
next year, I guess. So we've talked about Fincher again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would love to pick you know, the expert's
brains on this in terms of like I think me
and Taylor have some of the maybe some of the
similar questions of like the rules of all this and
like how because like you know, obviously there is like
a like a big part of the start point is
like once he's gone through like that, the physical examination.
But it's like, I don't, like, technically the game could
have started long before that, right, because it's not like
he actually went to their offices, like they're legitimate, actual
HQ offices to like do all this setup. It's like
it's not like his brother actually did a game prior
and like has been part of it previously, right, Like
that's just all kind of a setup for it. But
when you throw in character traps, you seem to be
maybe I think.
Speaker 1: Sean Penn has done a game before. Maybe I wouldn't
commit to that.
Speaker 2: Personally, because because even Kirk, when you said that earlier,
when you were talking about the other guys at the
club talking about it, like I just saw those guys
more as plants, Like I don't think.
Speaker 3: They've actually done it either.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's what you were saying, that
you think they have or haven't done it before.
Speaker 4: I took it that they have gamed in the past.
But yeah, it's tough because I think.
Speaker 1: Did game. Yeah, I took it both ways, because the.
Speaker 2: Game has like, well, I I took it as he
doesn't he's not like super wealthy.
Speaker 6: Kids just for family money.
Speaker 1: Right, and because remember at the end he was more
of the super wealthy.
Speaker 3: Well, I guess yeah, I would be like they have.
Speaker 4: I think he just took the role of his dad
essentially when his dad past, and then Sean was just
like the failure of a of a son. Yeah, trust fund,
yeah exactly, he's got those yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Because at the end when he which I love,
they give Michael Douglas the bill, he's well, i'll pay
for it. Oh my god, he's and then and then
Seanpinn's like, I'll take calf and he's like, oh, thank you.
So I think it is just yeah, where I think
I think Sean Penn is very rich, where I think
Michael Douglas is wealthy. There's a difference between the two,
and I think that's what it is. And that's why
I like with the men you don't really know, because
it's perfect setup of Sean Penn talked about the game,
and then these guys talk about later but at the
same time because they at the end, once it's all
revealed established that they are this massive, very rich corporation.
I would buy that other people have done it right,
and they have other clients out there, and I'm not
sure if they would say not to talk about it,
or if you talk about it, just keep it to
the game. Don't give them any details because it just
risks somebody a getting drunk and maybe spoiling some stuff, right, Like, Okay,
they're gonna ruin your life, but don't worry, it's gonna
pay off for you. So that when I go either
way on But the Sean Penn, for some reason, I
feel like he maybe did the game because he was
when he said the reason he got it for, Douglas
was like, oh, you're turning an ass, so I couldn't
let that happen. Kind of made me think that maybe
he was on a path. And I don't know who
paid for Penn's game, but you know, I digress.
Speaker 2: Probably I just feel like everything is scripted down to
like like and talking about like even when he goes
to the office, the fake office, and they're like, oh, yeah,
your brother he's you know, like one of our top
members or whatever they like say say something like that,
which would like make him jealous potentially, Like I want
to like up one at my.
Speaker 4: City was like top rated or something in this score.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is like I don't that doesn't mean anything, right,
Like it's all like I feel like everything is so
precisely picked to like fuck with this guy. That's where
I wonder, like, yeah, did this game start when they
did the physical or did it start much earlier than that?
And then I'm like spiraling out of like man, what's
up with Like is this act? Is this person actually
his wife? Or has this been an actor for like
twenty years or like you know, because he's throwing like
the random housekeeper lady or you know, like this coworker
guy that he's like yelling at and stuff like how
long have these people been in on it? And like, man,
it seems like a lot of trust to put into
random people they are not in on it like for
the long con. You know, like if you're just asking
random people to be expert actors and no one's gonna
crack when they see that he's like taking like his wife,
you know, seeing that he's taken all this like physical damage,
and he's gone through this crazy shit, Like maybe she
would break in that moment, but there's just like so
much that has to go right, and it makes me
question a lot of the people that are involved in it.
Speaker 1: Before you go, Kirkland, I feel like there's a show
you watch this year, Dylan that might make this experience
a bit more believable. What have you watched this year
that we quite enjoyed?
Speaker 3: Tell me?
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, someone like a man, man
like Nathan Fielder, he would absolutely do if he had
the billion dollars funds, Like the rehearsal and the things
he does to me like many versions and you're like, oh,
trusting all these actors, but like when he like that's
a small version, but when he like build the whole
airport and he like fires fifty actors, like you watch
the baggage first and you watch the airport person Like
that's like a joke version of that. But that's where
I think this is like operating on like the what
if someone bank rolled this into like a career, you
know sort of deal. So whoever's running the the c
R A CRP whatever that I can't remember that the
c R s it's it's a it's a dark Nathan
Fielder in my opinion, you know.
Speaker 3: I could see that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, Dylane's frozen.
Speaker 4: Okay, he was just staring you down.
Speaker 1: Because you.
Speaker 7: Yeah, because you're just you're like most yeah you know
you're good now. Yeah yeah, I explained all that, but
you frozen, like the most serious look, and I was like, wow,
I guess this is not a good take at all
for Dylan, like bring Nathan Filder.
Speaker 1: Like, but it's like no emotion, like you're like offended.
I even talk about Nathan Filder, but then it's.
Speaker 3: A good take. But I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it helps me believe these questions
I have about this movie. I yes to talk about
like some of the like they're basically extras, right, which
would have been like his ex wife and like other
characters that he's in act with, I think his lawyer
at some point, Samuel.
Speaker 4: I honestly don't believe they knew about what was going
like at least some of them didn't know what was
going on until the party, because like Elizabeth, when he
sees her and like he takes her car, like, I
don't think she actually knows anything that's going on. But
then like CRS just invites them all to his birthday
party at the end, and then like just because there's
so many of the extras, I definitely have like a
certain level of suspending my you know, disbelief to an
extent with this because it's just like, how would this
actually works? Well, this is pretty Internet, so like after
Internet this would be impossible because everybody would just be
talking about it. But like back then, even just like
the logistics of how this all works, it just doesn't
really make sense with them posing his officers like in
in day to day or whatever it might be if
fake cops in this. But at least to a certain
extent of those extras, I truly believe that they were
like they just didn't know, and then they got the
invite at the end to go to Nicholas's party and
that's what it was all revealed, and they're like holy shit,
like what is going on?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we never get that, we never like the
white the ex wife then never says like oh this
experience like I heard about was so happy, like she's
just there right, which I because I'm not like a
huge connoisseur of the we watched. I want to ask,
is that kid Michael Douglas is at the end?
Speaker 4: No, that's her husband, next husband's current husband, current husband.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that always struck me weird. It's like they meet
up and you know, find that that's cool. He got
a good relationship because they earlier. See she says by
to the kid and stuff. But this guy is holding
his own daughter. And you got this this ex husband
who at this point I'm assuming not good things, right
because when Michael Douglas does his experience, the next time
you see his ex wife like I screwed up. I'm
sorry about the person I was like, sounds like they
had a terrible ending this marriage. He didn't handle it
well right, So I'm sure this husband's heard nothing but
bad things. So he's holding his daughter, his own flashblove daughter.
A god Douglas walks up does their sweet dreams like
I'm gonna I'm gonna get the car like that's why
it's like, oh is this Like did I read that wrong?
And they have a kid together and that because that
would make sense. Im okay, the new husband the kids
that sleeps holding your child, but you're gonna say so,
it felt very strange for him to caress the child
that's not his, who probably much relationship with they've had
a rocky with one. But I just thought about that
today where it's like very oh, but you know, he's
just a happy guy now he's seen a better outlook
on life after this all, you know. So kudos to
the cr S and Sean Penn for the idea.
Speaker 4: I didn't I didn't take it too too much to
that level. I thought the weirdest part about that was
him and his ex wife just smacked on the lips.
Speaker 1: Very calm back then. Though, I feel like I feel
like that died the two thousands. I feel like there's
tons of like you.
Speaker 4: Kiss, started macking with your ex with your fucking next
right there, and.
Speaker 1: Hex extra life is gonna be wild. But no, like, yeah,
I feel like that was that died on the two thousands.
Don't know why, but.
Speaker 4: Just commenting on the relationship, I don't think it was
like like a hateful breakup. I think it was just
like he was so preoccupied with it being a winner.
That's like, Okay, this isn't going to work. Like he's
only focused on his career and then they just just
I mean, like she calls him on his birthday, like
it's not like fuck you, you're dead to me, I'm
never talking to you again, that type of thing.
Speaker 1: Maybe that ex maybe the current has some stuff to
worry about. Then I don't know, maybe it's a reverse
of that just felt the thing.
Speaker 4: In the nineties, you know, it died in the two thousands.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I guess then, Kirkling, are you saying that
your theory is that like the only personal like personal
connection that he has in the movie that is an
actor I guess would be his brother.
Speaker 4: Then yeah, I think so, because Samuel his lawyer, which
is like his number two guy, like for business wise
before in the game at the end, he's like, I
have no idea what's going on. But that was quite
the intence he made, like he drops that line and
he was actually they're interacting with the fake detectives when
they go to the CRS with him, so like he
was fully.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of a moment when he would
be talking about like the empty bank accounts or something
is like obviously they will well.
Speaker 4: Know because he he looks into it, calls Michael Douglas
and it's like everything's there, like like I don't know,
I don't know what you're talking about it, so that
links up. I think it's mostly like anyone that would
have been in the CRS building when he was well, Actually, no,
never mind, because that would have been a facade too,
because because there you see a lot of the actors,
like you see some fake cops, you see the fake detectives,
you see people that he's interacted with on the journey
so far up until that point. You don't see them
all obviously because Depen's not there.
Speaker 1: I also think if you got the family in on it,
it's a risk for some of them could break or
also they just you can't assume everyone in the person's
life would be good actors, right, Like it's a huge leap.
But like, let's say everybody that the CRS is hired
are just like top tier thespians. You know, they're non movies,
but they're top their class actors found you know, the
Fielder method again, Dylan, but with the family, like they
might not be able to hit the cue of like okay,
cry on this, you know, cry away away or be
this man stuff. So other than the brother like, which
I agree, and he seems like he's probably a little
messed up too, so he's kind of down for it,
but he doesn't even That's like a pro and con
for me, because my con is I wish we got
more at the Brother. So I guess my reroute of
that is I wish we got more of him the
brother before the game starts, because I think that's the
reason you don't get him much in the game, because
they have the meeting, he gives them the gift, and
then the next time you see him is that car
scene when they had the falling out, which I really
love that scene. I love because I've seen families at
that moment where not not not in the game since,
but when they're yelling in the streets and talking about like, oh,
I didn't ask you to play dad. But then Michael
Douglas just gets up. He's like, I fucking had to, Like, clearly,
they'll just give you all the backstory there of same thing,
like the dad goes away and he just steps in
the role where he didn't really want to, but to
kind of keep him and his brother a fat he
chose to do that because they in anyway many times
Champan's kind of like a yeah, not screw up a
trust fund baby, you know, fly on the seat of
his hands. Yeah right, yeah exactly. So that's where I like,
all that boils up there. So that's where I always go, Oh,
I wish I got more of that at the same
point where maybe because he's not an act tour, it's like, hey,
we're you can only interact with him once during the
game other than the end with the bottle, but he
just has to lay there, right, So I do agree
with Kirkland's method that I think that it is probably
the the real life people other than the brother don't
have anything to go on, which is what a wild
situation that be if, like, you know, Emily were to
invite you guys to like my fortieth birthday and you
just see me, You just see me falling down from
the fucking roof, landing on like this this big mattress
and stuff like that. Yeah yeah, so what a while
away for even the ex wife and stuff like all
those situations. But yeah, yeah, what's.
Speaker 2: Your theory, tailor, Like, do you do you how many
of these people you see being in on in on
it versus just kind of all there for the reveal.
Speaker 5: I wanted to believe that the lady waitress who kind
of becomes like the friend on this journey was Yeah,
it was not like like a part of it was
like was genuine. But as things went on and the
fact too, like I already talked about this scene, but
the fact that we got all these officers and paramedics
just disappearing all being in on I thought, what the fuck?
Speaker 3: Okay, at this point.
Speaker 6: Of the game, at this this stage, everyone.
Speaker 5: And anyone and could be could be in on it.
I mean, you have government workers that are doing it.
And at first it didn't click because I thought, okay,
like these are official government workers that are doing this,
But then I thought, no.
Speaker 6: Okay, they got to be just people of the game.
Speaker 5: And you don't know because someone's gonna like put something down,
or you bump into someone and then you're missing your keys,
you got a fucking different briefcase lock or something like.
It's just a whole bunch of fucking, you know, fuck
around gang shit going.
Speaker 4: On, right, So there's just so many cuss words.
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I don't really know how many people I would cap off,
and I did not expect to.
Speaker 3: With the brother.
Speaker 5: I didn't expect him to be, Like, I know he
was the guy who put this game into the ethert
here with with Michael Douglas, but I wasn't expecting him
to kind of. I guess it comes full circle at
the end obviously when you see what the game is
and with Michael Douglas having like fake shot and having
fake killed him. But uh, yeah, I don't know. It
just when you have this kind of shit going on,
you think even the two people they're laughing in the alleyways,
Michael Douglas like jumps off the fucking like fire escape
and lands and the dumpster and they're watching him. Maybe
you just think, Okay, are they in on it too?
I don't know, Like it's just everyone is at the
right time and the right place for where Michael Douglas
is like dying in that or dying on the street
and all that.
Speaker 1: Right, the dog is that dog train actor, you know
at one point dog runs after my.
Speaker 6: It has to be a part of it. Sure that definitely.
Speaker 4: Sent by the CRS patrolman, Like, yeah, one hundred percent,
it would be an actor. I feel like like majority
of the people, I mean, it might not work for
the amount of people he does interact with, but like
on the path of like him and Christine just going
through the game, I feel like most of the people
they interact are actors or people like because like they're
clearly guiding him on a route, right, Like when Conrad
is having that argument with him and he's like looking
back three times to make sure that he's following him,
It's like, Okay, I think I think he wants him
to follow him. I think everybody that's in on the
game wants him to follow him. So yeah, but I
mean it's tough to say because you don't fully know,
and I think that's a good decision. Is like they
don't fully explain all of that. Obviously that can be
a con to some people, but I think it's I
think it's fun. Like I I like how you don't
know how expensive this is, because it must be incredibly
expensive to just have all these moving pieces.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are questions that are fun to talk about,
but not that you'd want to answer because then.
Speaker 4: It was like the full fiction briefcase thing, right for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then I thought I had like a pretty lock
tight theory of what was going on here. But now
talking with you guys, it's like, Okay, maybe not. And
that's where I think it would be fun to now
rewatch this and reconsider things, because another one that seems
off maybe be like the coworker that he like berates
and fires and it like goes to his house and
then that guy's like at the end, yeah, that guyn idea.
Speaker 4: That guy had no idea what was going on. So
so like when he comes in, he's like fucking nipple,
rings on my nipple and he's just like ripping apart,
like he has annoyedy what's going on? He's just smoking cigars.
Speaker 3: Is he there at the party at the end?
Speaker 4: Yeah, same thing, right, he gets invited.
Speaker 3: Go to that party after what the fuck happened with.
Speaker 4: That was clearly living his best life, Like he didn't
even get phased when he cursed him out in front
of his wife and his daughter.
Speaker 2: I just feel like that guy, Like I don't know
because I don't know how much things are really planted
in the office, but it's not like they, you know,
tired everyone in the office, so there must be someone
who's like going in there to like modify things. So
I don't know, maybe that guy was paid off or something.
And it's like he seems like he's been He knew
the guy's father, so he's like he's been around forever,
so obviously wouldn't be like an actor planned.
Speaker 4: But listen, that's why I think he wasn't an actor.
Speaker 1: That's why it is in business, that's exactly what happened
after the Jurassic World. Uh, what a Fallen Kingdom review.
Tayor walked in said that all of me, but then
you know, we got it done. We figured out the
review after. In business sometimes you just gotta put some
things aside. But I do shattered me to that extent though,
because he did work for his father and they talked
about how like bullheaded his dad was. I think it's
just like, ah, he's probably been bitched out many times
by his dad or other people, and it's just like
a type of business, especially in the nineties in the
late eighties that was like a very and I'm not
sure if it's saying that way now, but very stereotype
of like small dick syndrome with those type of people. Yeah,
you kind of get used to it, and like I did,
apologies at the end, right, he's like sorry for them.
It's understanding that that is my favorite, not my favorite scene,
but my favorite scenario in the movie when he wakes
up and it just this hotel room of dirty photos.
Speaker 4: But the Shaem like scene. So I'm not surprised that's
the one.
Speaker 1: No, it's not that, it's a one they should put
Brendan through. Sissy should hire this company and put Brendan
through this scenario disposable income for that. Maybe she'll data guy,
She'll find Sean Penn start dating and be like, hey,
my brother could use the same thing. I would kill
to watch Brendon go through the CRS. Yeah, but no,
it's not the sex stuff. It's the scenario of that,
the drugs, the broken balls. And my favorite thing is
like literally's waking up, this maid opens the door and
he's just like like, oh no, come back later, like
just almost takes off this woman's fingers, but just everything,
because I guarantee you this is a plant too. Like
everything goes wrong where he cuts his hand and he's
bleeding everywhere, so he's frantically cleaning. He gets some toylet paper,
throws on a toilet, starts to overfloats, like every single
thing you could imagine is going wrong in this scenario
and uh yeah, no, I just the hotel because it's
just it wakes up in every bad thing you could
think of of, you know, that could get you arrested
or in trouble or lose your job is in there.
Speaker 3: And toilet's overflowing, and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I wish back then, like the Apple watchings, I would
love to see like Nicholas Orton's heart rate at that
point when he woke up and saw everything, which I
liked that they refer back to it later on when
they talk about his brother and it's all part of
the game, like, oh, yeah, we had to kick your
brother in the hotel. You the what we mean, while
we've found all the stuff in this hotel. So they
kind of made it seem like, oh, that's the Seriouses
way to like blackmail, you're fuck you up as oh,
like they did that to me, to my whole hotel room,
and now they did it to my brother where they
set him up with a bunch of stuff. So they
do refer back to the hotel room method as like
a way to kind of mess you up. So I
like that kind of messing with mister Orton there, So
Ben or good on.
Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, one thing, I was surprised that he was
kind of continually fooled by by Christine, just because I
felt like the fact that like the whole reason he
was set off after hers because he like got that
note that was like don't.
Speaker 3: Don't leave her or don't whatever whatever that said.
Speaker 2: So I feel like that would should always be in
the back of his head of like, oh, yeah, well,
obviously if this note is here and he's like in
on this like part of the game, that like, well,
why why would they tell me to just follow some
random girl?
Speaker 3: Like she must be part of it?
Speaker 2: But he never really seemed to like pick up on that,
which was funny, Like that scene later when he's like
calling his like Swedish bank account or something, and he's
like clearly giving the password for his account and she's
just sitting next to him, and then she actually gives
like this little glare and it's like, God, damn, this
guy's really dumb sometimes. But I understand that he's been
put through laying an immense amount of mental stress, So
I'm sure a lot of people would not be thinking
straight in a situation like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I can agree. He could seem a little
more like he should be sessive everybody. I guess the
like the dumb answer, which I don't accept as like
an apology for it, but it's just that. I guess
he likes her because he does go and ask her
out at the end, which I do like because I
even like their dialogue of one she says where she lives,
and she catches herself lying made conversation tells her where
he actually lives. But then she's say, oh, you don't
know anything about me, you don't want my jobs, it
doesn't matter, which is good because they kind of insinuate
almost the beginning of the film he would not date
someone if he didn't know like their class system, Like
they gotta have to be in his circles or like
his people to even affiliate with. So when she's like, oh,
you don't even know what my life's like, Oh, I
don't care, So the good moment of you know which again,
like that would be I feel like that one. I
guess she's not always playing that role. I feel like
you would probably get asked maybe quite a bit, I
don't know, because you're trying to like fakely fall in
love with someone. But I guess for like I guess
that's where not use a little more. I would like
to see why she said yes, other than just like
is because Michael Douglas is like a half decent you know,
maybe multi a million billionaire or something like that. Yeah
for coffee, Yeah, I'll go for coffee for sure, but
would like a little bit more there. But I do
think they had throughout the movie good chemistry together, whether
they were opposed or against each other. I like the
restaurant scene where she you know, accidentally spills stuff on
which I love. The first act of this movie is
just his shirt gets sucked up by the tan. His
shirt gets sucked up by the red wine. Like they're
putting this man's wardrobe through just the ringer.
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah. Another thing that I just love in
this movie is I don't know the actor's name, but
like the guy that does the test with him, and
he's like an actor. He sees him on like the
like it's like a Talent Hall commercial.
Speaker 1: Later on, his poor ex wife.
Speaker 4: He's at the zoo with his children, Michael Douglas comes
up with a pistol.
Speaker 1: I've killed him.
Speaker 4: I just love the ways that he like I imagine it's
part of the evaluation process. But he's just like fucking
with Michael Douglas from the get go, Like when he
gets there, he like made him late. Michael Douglas is
clearly like a very like high strung like everything has
to be controlled. But then hees like this guy's late.
He's making me hold his lunch, you know, like, oh
you want some lunch, And it's just like so unprofessional
from his perspective and just kind of catches them off
guard there and then you know, you'll be in and
out in like two hours. And then he's there all
day and like fun, they have like some clockwork orange
type like tests that they have him going through with
like the vedeas construction contraction.
Speaker 1: It's like how long is this video that we do
before this podcast?
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, so I I I don't know. That
guy's just really good at playing that role and just
seeming like a very normal individual. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you think those are actually his kids or those actors?
I think actual kids in this that's.
Speaker 1: Risky, especially wh Michael Douglas thinks he's a gun, so
he's just ready to kill anybody. What about all the
other kids of the aquarium not actors? You know that
that is that's where a lawsuit could happen.
Speaker 3: But yeah, time hasn't been one yet. I would assume
based on success, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or they just make so much money that they
can afford crazy good lawyers who can get them out
of this kind of thing. Uh, do you guys, do
you guys feel like he is gonna actually change after this? Like,
do you think going forward, this guy has realized he's
a piece of shit and he's gonna like kind of
right right the wrongs that he's made in his life,
and he's gonna be like be a better person.
Speaker 4: I think I think so. It might be a cheesy,
cheap answer, but I think the way that they, like,
you know, each game is tailored to the individual very
very very specifically. But like the tie in with the
dad suicide and like the whole intro to this movie,
like just with the flashback videos, like it's just very
much tied to that event and it clearly just fucked
him up in the head. Uh, and then him just
being forced in to be the new head van Horton
Van Horton, Tim Horton Van Orton, Nicholas van Orton, the
new the new van Orton K get it right? It's
getting late. Oh my gosh, you're killing my trans thoon. No,
but no, I think the like the suicide thing is
just such a big event for him. And I mean, yeah,
like you know, he could slip. Maybe Christine doesn't call
him back, he starts getting angry again business dealings, he's
losing a lot of money. Maybe he goes back to
his old ways. That very much is a possibility. But
I just like the version of the story that's like, no,
it is a life changing thing. It clearly worked for
Sean Penn. For Conrad, like he was a drug user
and now he's completely clean, hasn't been using, and like
feels so adamantly that, like, man, my brother has to
go through this, like this will very much change. And
then again, the country club members that you could say
are actors or not, I believe that they're not. But uh,
it's like, man to be like, I'm so envious of
your position of like not even knowing anything right now,
and because like I don't know, these guys are probably
pretty wealthy. I imagine they had that same morals that
the Van Orton had. So yeah, I think yes, but cheesy.
Speaker 1: He's like, what do you get the Vanue was everything.
You gotta give him this life chanting experience. But I
think so it does. I think it will because I
think they give you a few scenarios. I talked about
him ask her out for a date and they talk
about the class system there when he's surrounded now, obviously
he thought he was gonna die. He thought his brother
was dead, so he's probably crying for all multitude of reason.
But when he's surrounded by all like his big wigs,
he's like actively like solving, which I feel like past
Nicholas wouldn't have done. The two other scenarios we've already
touched upon is him apologizing to his wife. I think
it's a big thing because it seems like before that
would have been something he would do, he wouldn't be
the bigger person. And then the I think the final
one I breugh up is when he I think it's
just a realization for him, when he wakes up wherever
he is and he has to go in that restaurant
and he's beat up, he's dirty. He's like, I gotta
go to San Francisco. I got four dollars, Like can
anyone just help me out? Like I'm bagging you, and
everyone just stares at him. He's a nobody. I think
he finally starts, which I think you could have done
more in the movie as well, sprinkled a little more
of those situations of him with the lower class to
understand that. But I think that's his moment of Oh, like,
you can't just judge somebody basically on their look or
their money because you don't know what situation they've been through,
right I'm assuming not many people have gone through the
game like he has. But just he might put anything
onto a person like, oh, this person's bums asking me
for a ride, you know, fuck them where. It's like
he doesn't matter. He in his situation has been swindled
of a bunch of money and is really wrong. But
he's no richer than any other bum on the street
right now, right so, I think so, But who knows,
maybe just develops a drug problem and he ends up
like his dad, who I got a very fun trivia
note when we get there, So just buckle.
Speaker 5: Up, like everything psychologically that happened, that just totally just
knocked him down. I feel like that's enough to break
him and make him become a better person. After the
whole the whole thing because like gets worse. I mean
it could go it could absolutely go worse. You could
just I mean he tried to. He jumped off and
that failed. Who's to say he doesn't go outside and
buy like a real gun and shoot himself in the head.
Speaker 1: Because he thought he killed his brother, you know which
again that's that's one.
Speaker 2: In the rock bottom for someoney who's in such a
secure place.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But like even then to the uh the thing, I
always it's a joke. Oh good thing you jumped or
I would have to throw you. It's like that's a
very dangerous wrist there.
Speaker 4: Metal rebar like like steel beams like right, like you know,
it's a pretty big area that I'm sure was the
breakaway glass. But those giant steel pillars, no, those are
not fake.
Speaker 1: If he I have some trivia bat but that's where Yeah,
for me, I'm always like I wish they found something
outside than the jump off the building that takes it
like it's already hiding.
Speaker 4: Down tie into the father right, like it's that's what
it's just.
Speaker 1: Making a smaller jump though then like like like to
jump he.
Speaker 6: Jumped from like the O zone layer like that was
a long.
Speaker 1: Fun with plates of like getting glass, you know, like yeah,
no concussion or anything. It's even just some impact of
hitting that mattress, like it's soft. But that's one where
it's like maybe just a little small.
Speaker 4: It's like fate, Like Michael Douglas's face when he like
you thought he kills his brother. He's going through this
whole fucking game adventure. He thinks he's committing suicide and
then he lands on a fucking mattress and there's people
like close your eyes, miss don't yeah.
Speaker 1: Still think it'll cut you.
Speaker 4: Like he's just sitting there like what the fuck is
even real anymore? Like like he's just so luckily Conrad
comes out, you know, his brother's not actually dead, But
in that moment, I'm sure he was, like Taylor said,
maybe more broken.
Speaker 1: They should have ran through the game for one more
hour just to see what would have happened to.
Speaker 2: That was the thing, man, Like what if the game
isn't over when the movie ends, you know, like what
if that's just another layer of the inception ness they're
trying to fuck with them there, Like the game goes on.
Speaker 5: He's gonna try and kill himself again, because that's just.
Speaker 4: That's just it's messed. It takes a toll. It takes
a toll, for sure. Yeah, yeah, I hope yes, you know.
Speaker 1: Anything else, specifically any ceiling brand of my stuff.
Speaker 2: I like the music in this movie, and a lot
of it is just like you know, slow, very dramatic
piano stuff.
Speaker 3: But I think it really works. You know Howard Shore
is on the.
Speaker 2: Scoring this, But I also think like there's this obviously
there's a Claire to loon in many classic piano pieces
in there, but just all that stuff I think works
pretty well. So it's like the tone of this very dark,
gritty kind of setting. So I like like the like
the music, I like the the kind of frequent use
of the crs like they caught like all these different companies.
I couldn't think of an example right now, but all
the different company names that you know, whether it's like
some like garbage company or like I don't know, a
police group, whatever, it is, like they all just have
like that acronym for whatever the company is that.
Speaker 1: Ties notes the taxi when he says down and they
like lock him up and he's driving and he sees
the seers and say say, oh, come on, man, But like,
everyone go back and watch his face reaction when they're
driving and the taxi driver jumps out, Michael doug was
just like, oh my god, I cannot any think about
the scenarios they put this guy through. Is your taxi
driver just barreled out of the car and you're like,
and he goes in the waters. It's just a game.
It's just a game. But he doesn't get out.
Speaker 2: But yeah, the guy in the taxi looks like the
guy from Home alone, like ain't much better and he
a kid like he like freaky as hell.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe it is Kevin is those we is he
just like the game. We want him to really understand,
like we love him, but he just doesn't get it yet.
Oh we got the perfect thing for you, ma'am.
Speaker 2: My favorite Michael Douglas's face reaction in this movie is
when they're getting chased by the dog and they like
start climbing up the like ladder whatever it is, Like,
I don't know, you'd have to go back and freeze
frame it, but the face he makes is both hilarious
and just like, I don't even know how you do that.
I wonder if he intentionally did that or if he
was actually freaked out.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It was crazy.
Speaker 4: Ye I like his birthday meal, but he that is,
his housekeeper makes for him, pulls it out of the
oven and just you know, he's got a little cupcake.
But that burger whatever it was, chicken burger, beef burger,
whatever it was. Man, it looked so good that bun
with the red onions and everything. It just looked commercial worthy.
My gosh, I wanted to take a big, big old
chop out of the out of the burger. Bite with
that thing. I'm getting hungry, gonna have a big.
Speaker 2: Commercial directed by David. You probably directed a bunch of
like food commercials. He probably knows how to make it. Yeah, exactly,
it's larger. My last note was about the father, but
I believe that I think Travis's trivia is going.
Speaker 4: To cover it.
Speaker 1: We all have the note. I'm guessing all who the father?
Do you have any notes? Because if not, I'll ask
you who the father is?
Speaker 3: No, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's go for it all right. I'll give you a
hint that the guy who played the father in like
the videos, Like the Home videos is an iconic voice.
Speaker 4: Who do you think it is an iconic voice.
Speaker 1: Yeah something you No, No, what does that even mean? Taylor?
Are you telling me that Sean Connery looks what he does,
but he's hired a guy for every film to do
his voice, like it's a constant a dr No. The
guy that's playing Michael Douglas's dad in the flashback, he
voices a very famous character. Can you get his character?
It's someone you would know is a famous character. Yeah,
I'll let him ask me one hint. Yeah, it's not
Sean Connery's hint.
Speaker 5: No, No, that's that's not the hind most No, no, no,
no game. Someone that I would know voice is a character?
Speaker 6: Is this character like in an animated project, like a.
Speaker 1: Cart who has been Yes, yeah, very iconic sayings but
doesn't speak a lot.
Speaker 4: Except for his movie.
Speaker 2: But that was voiced by a more actor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he was also in that movie voice in
the character's father.
Speaker 2: Voices many characters, actually more than that character voices a
character and that character's brother and that character's weird uncle.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I'm getting confused all these voices. I'm just gonna say,
Robin Williams.
Speaker 1: No, what are you doing here?
Speaker 4: What you're saying?
Speaker 6: He voices a bunch of characters.
Speaker 1: Okay, what movie has Rob Williams the character? Please tell me.
Speaker 6: I'm so confused.
Speaker 1: Okay, that actor. That actor is not a famous actor
like by face. So you saying he's voicing Robin Williams again, No,
rom Williams has his own voice. This guy is a
voice actor. You would not have seen any movies. He
does a very iconic voice.
Speaker 3: On your shelf behind you in some way, shape.
Speaker 6: Or form, on my shelf, behind me, This is.
Speaker 5: On my shelf.
Speaker 1: Why are you looking up at the roof when you
say on your shelf? What's happening here on my shelf?
Speaker 6: Which shelf be talking about?
Speaker 1: Now? He said behind you? He already said all.
Speaker 3: The games on it and presumably movies, and.
Speaker 5: You can fucking see which one of those is.
Speaker 2: Well, I know that there's a few on there that
will have this voice actor, because that's how iconic.
Speaker 1: The character is that we know there's a game back
there that has him in it.
Speaker 4: Right now, I'm confused because the way you've worded totally,
the way you've explained it is totally. Just send me
for a looser.
Speaker 1: Okay, here, this guy voices an iconic video game character
who do you think it is?
Speaker 5: I thought we were talking about like a cartoon, like
a move the movie Here's has been a cartoon movie.
Speaker 3: The character is on this screen right now.
Speaker 1: I can't say that.
Speaker 4: What is this game?
Speaker 6: You guys are playing me off a building here.
Speaker 1: Massive pay us along, break Man. There's some in your
life Taylor that needs this game. I think he'd be
perfect for the game. Anyways, I watched a movie about that. Anyways, Yeah, anyways,
the guy voices fucking Mario Taylor, the guy that plays
Michael Douglas's dad in the flashbacks. He's the voice of
Mario the original Retire twenty twenty three and Luigi other
clearly not. Did he voice Rob Williams. No, he's not.
He's not. That's in the future.
Speaker 4: But I love it was like too, like real person.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I thought you met, like pick an actor
who does their voice, lends their voice to another character,
so like, oh, Rob Williams voices like.
Speaker 1: The Genie and it would be thousands of actors. It's fine, whatever, Okay,
it was great to David Fincher originally planned to make
the game before seven, but when Brad Pitt came available
for the latter, he shelled this film and then went
to this after film seven was done, so I guess
it was a situation there. I only would have changed
too much, but you never know. Here's the kicker with
Sean Penn's roll. Jody Foster was originally signed to play
Michael Douglas's sister in the film. However, Foster changed her
mind and wanted to appear as Douglas's daughter instead. Douglas
and the director Adventure were very opposed to this change,
so they went gave the part that Sean Penn and said.
Foster promptly sued Polly Graham to the tune of fifty
four million dollars, even though her Egg Pictures production was
one of the film's production companies. The matter was fortunately
settled out of court. Doug who is personal friend with Foster,
said it didn't seem right for him to play Foster's father,
given that there was only eighteen years age difference, even
though in a movie from nineteen seventy two from Disney
Napoleone Samantha, he did play her guardian there. I would
love to know more about the situation of I would
understand if you cast her and then like, you know,
We're just gonna go Sean Penn. I can understand why
there's like a lawsuit there, but I find it very
odd of like Kyu cast her and then she's like, well,
I'd like to change the whole thing up, and the
star and the director like I don't really want to
do that, and we're gonna go Sean. So clearly there's
more fuck we're there, But yeah, trying to get it
for fifty four million. I don't even know how much
this movie made. I don't even think. Let me just
quickly say the game box office, let's see what it made.
It made one hundred and nine million, so she pretty
mu would have been asking like half of the entire
theatrical run, which is crazy. So don't know what happened there.
Ninety is crazy time, let's see here. Despite the success
of the box office and the cult following, Dave Venture
has some minion interviews that he's not proud of this film.
He's explained that he was fighting with executives at Polygramm
Entertainment at the time, which was the distributor of the film,
and he agreed with his wife, who produced a film,
that they should have never made the film citing they
could never get the third act and it was my
fault because I thought I could just keep my foot
on the throttle and it was liberating and funny. So
it's funny because you know, I'm not trying to just
say that again, but like Alien three, this, and I
think this is a notorious thing. This is why Jake
Jillenhall won't work with him. You can go look back
at Zodiac. There's many outtakes. Fincher's a guy that likes
to do like like a minimum of fifty takes sometimes
on one scene. And you can see scenes with Johena.
Hall's like we fucking got it, man, like let's move on.
Days like oh, let's go again. And here's Jake forty
nine takes later still and it's stuff like sitting down
and throwing a newspaper and like, no, let's do that again.
Let's do that again. So I think he's just like
a perfectionist type of guy. But I don't think he's wrong.
I was like, I think the concept's great, I think
the build up's great, but I think that's a stuff
like falling off the roof with the like that's where
I think the third act for me, does Lou it
was a little.
Speaker 2: You again, Michael Douglas ready four times.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I know this guy that's clearly always hard
on his work is even then like Alien three not
his fault. But he still said like, ah, but I
didn't direct that right, so uh, Jiff. When they moved
over from Jodie Foster, they offered Jeff Bridges to roll
the brother uh when it was rewritten as male character.
But I guess he turned it down. So again some
time to big Lebowski that we just did earlier tonight.
Let's see here when the interviewer at the CRS turns on,
the computer makes the same noise a whaling computer sound
makes in the Alien franchise, So there you go. Uh. Yeah,
and he directed an Free three, So I don't know
what they're yeah, if it was a home uns or not.
Michael Douglas says he wish he had been shown the
home movies before production because it would have helped him
a lot. He thinks they set a tone for how
destructive Nicholas van Orden would become, which is interesting. And
then another fun no is Michael Douglass going through divorced
while this film was in production. And it was a
time for me a lot to use, or it was
a lot that I could use to picture myself in
the movie. So kind of life imitating art there, which
was kind of funny. The character of Conrad was originally
written as a best friend from prep school for Nicholas.
They had always viewed Nicholas as a only child, but
the script came together once David suggested that it wasn't necessary.
Staying the brother helped give us more emotional core to
the story. So I guess for a long time that
was just a friend, but they changed that up. I
do have it here. I'm not gonna play the whole
teaser here, but Dave Fincher loved the initial teacher feazing
a marionette puppet being tortured by the marketing department, and
came up with a crumbling face puzzle piece thing. He
added the puzzle pieces to the opening credits so the
second teaser would bear connection in the film, similar to
the puppet that appears later in the movie. So what
was it? Oh, it's like twenty days later. You know
that that Boots Boots that song that was in the
marketing that they put in the movie that like old
timmy poem thing the marketing team did that that wasn't
in the movie at all. Alex Garland, Dane Bull, who
saw the tea and so we gotta put the song
on the movie now, So I'll bring up the teaser.
A second, same thing happened with the puppet and the
broken pieces. None of that was Fincher's idea or anything
like that. They just saw the teaser like, well, we
better make it look like that teaser because it's fucking awesome.
So and then a final note, after the police load
Nicholas and Christine in the ambulance, if you listen carefully,
one of them snickered. This was a clear that the
police were in vault in the game as well. So
there you go. But I'll bring it. I'm not gonna
play the whole thing. It's I watched a little bit
of the teaser. The teaser is literally just the Mary
Antoinette being tortured, and it's just dialogue of the movie.
It's just people yelling. So I'm just gonna skip forward.
But teasers in the I know who want the audience.
Speaker 4: To yourself that it's being toys.
Speaker 1: It's just this for a minute and twenty until you
get to like this point, the man who has everything
teasers man back and then ninety So that's that's October ship.
It's like October so but yeah, so there you go. So,
Taylor Field, how many marios would you give this out
of ten?
Speaker 4: How many marios?
Speaker 1: Rob Williams? How many Sean Connery? What Taylor? For people
to listen to that that portion of this at.
Speaker 4: The late night comment. I don't even fault Taylor for that.
I feel like, no, for.
Speaker 2: Anyone listening who didn't know who the character was, like,
were you able to pick up on it?
Speaker 1: Hits?
Speaker 6: Let us know, because I'm not the only one guessing.
Sean Connery, I'm sure I could be with you.
Speaker 1: That was late. But when I clarified so hard in
the second time, He's still said Williams, That's why I
knew he wouldn't have got it. I knew first one.
Speaker 4: I'm like, Okay, okay, let's let's let's narrow your focus here,
you know, let's let's get you back on path. And
then Robin Williams, Okay, we lost him.
Speaker 5: So I'm I'm thinking this is probably I'm gonna go
a six point.
Speaker 6: Five out of ten.
Speaker 5: It's not super super high for me, but I'm passing
it because I think it's it's worth a watch, but
it doesn't have a lot of things in here that
resonate with me and and kind of like hits me
that in that that way. But I still had a
time with this and I thought it was it was
an adventure and uh yeah, maybe maybe if I'm gonna
watch this again, maybe I gotta I gotta change the
I gotta change the pacing. I gotta be in the
kitchen alone, cooking honeygard like chicken, like watch The Big
Leabowski was. I gotta put this movie on. And maybe
that's that's the kicker.
Speaker 4: That's the watch with Scott.
Speaker 3: I know, yeap.
Speaker 4: Which one is, Louise?
Speaker 3: I uh, I'll jump in here. Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 2: After watching this and you know, feeling like I had
a pretty good handle on the twists and the you know,
the directions it went, I was feeling like, yeah, I
don't think I need to rewatch this anytime soon at least,
but after this discussion, I definitely do.
Speaker 3: And I feel like I' interesting to see like the
things I pick out there are the characters who I thought, oh,
that character.
Speaker 2: Is obviously in on it, maybe maybe not, and like
just kind of reevaluate a lot of these scenes. So
I feel like, naturally a lot of movies like this
do have good rewatchability, and I didn't think this did
after the initial watch, but after this podcast, now I
do think it does. So uh, someday I will definitely
do that, and I'll definitely report back when I've watched
it again. But I think for this few and I'm
gonna give it a seven to five.
Speaker 1: Travis eight point five. That's where I would go right there,
having like an eight point five and nine. I think
I have given in a nine before, like on a
letter box, on a letterbox, to make it cleaner, it'd
be like a four point five out of five. I
think it's just the third act for me that holds
it back. I think the things that they they they
hold back themselves. I like. I love the acting, I
love the cinematography, I love the score, I love the five.
I think it's a good pace because you know, at
one point I paused it and it was like twenty
one minutes and they were already setting up the game,
which is like good on for them, because sometimes that
could have been like a forty five minutes like and
I get wrong. I still think there's some stuff you
could add. I won more stuff with the brother I
would have taken. But I still think the initial concept
being introduced at early is good because especially when the
rest of the movie is like what's real, what's not?
What is the game? What's the variation of what's the
cause of the game. I think that's a smart play.
So I'm gonna go an eight point seven five. I'll
do that at eight point seventy five. Yeah, no, enjoy this.
I don't think I'll watch this one for a while now,
because I've watched it within like the past ten months twice.
But I definitely in the next decade or so, i'll
have a Fincher craving. It'll probably be if I end
up loving you know, the Cliff Booth Adventures, maybe I'll
do Fincher watches then. But yeah, no, really enjoy this
one and happy we got to talk about.
Speaker 4: It, very nice. Yeah, I'll I'll go jump up from
you trap. I'll go nine point seven five. For a while,
I was gonna do nine point five, but then you
hit me with that curveball within nine points or eight
point seven five rather so I do a full jump up.
Yeah for me, this is like a big nostalgia boost
on my score overall. I just yeah, this is is
a really important film for me in my overall just
journey on. Uh, I'm just enjoying films and of course
tied to like yeah, just tripping out with me and
my sister back in the day, seeing like my dad
with the clown image on, like that just stuck to
my brain more so before I even saw the film.
So of course when I saw when I eventually saw it,
just uh, when I first see that clown just arrive
on his driveway, I'm like, oh my god, this is
going to be like this is gonna be the villain
of the movie, like because because I just had that
image in my head that the.
Speaker 1: All over posters to like DVD's a.
Speaker 4: Great image, right, it's like the saw, you know.
Speaker 1: I believe, Yeah, I have a cut creepy crown, that
creepy clown that half it's chin is broken, But I
won't let me throw it out because I'm like, we're
gonna use it one day. It's it's it's literally a
clown that I've had since I was like one years old,
and I don't know what my mom was thinking. It's
creepy as fuck. I'll try and find a photo. But
like we're using this at some point, so clowns they
can do that, man.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, But I mean nostalgia's side. I still
think this is a really just special film. I love
the just sound design, the music. Michael Douglas is just
such a powerhouse and didn't really talk about her a lot,
but like the actors that played Christine, I thought she
was just really fantastic. Yeah, it's good chemistry amongst the two.
Sean Penn always great to see him like a younger
Sean Penn. I haven't seen enough of him, honestly because
Mystic River, you know, it was on my my old
top ten.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I am Sam God twenty one grams. Trying
to think some other good ones. Yeah, thin Red Line.
Have you not seen Fast Times o oridge On High
because we're talking about big Lebowski, because that's always the
other stoner one of apeels like this, what's.
Speaker 4: His character's name, It's like.
Speaker 1: He is the stoner of the high school, always gets there. Yeah,
Like I feel like it's one a Jeff Bridges one
b Sean Pan of the ones that got brought up
as that, and yeah it's h oh milk, which you
want to Oscar for milk is fantastic. Browling's in there,
lots of great stuff, so yeah, he's fantastic.
Speaker 4: So yeah, no, I'm glad we were able to watch it.
My dad's gonna be excited to listen to this episode,
I'm sure.
Speaker 1: So hopefully he gets that Mario thing before Taylor does,
but probably won't.
Speaker 4: Yeah, probably he as lost as Taylor.
Speaker 1: It's not Sean Carry. This whole crazy has been voiced
by this guy. But yes, we have done it. Yeah,
the next time we'll be doing this is now we've
just started with Superhero Draft. When we do the other
draft next year that now, when we win, we'll pick
some ritel so this will be more fun to revisit
back in the future. But no, this was a This
was fun to do for the ten year and just
get a little zeitgeist and look in the mind of
us and see what's going on and see why we
picked things in some formative films for all of us
in different ways. So this was tons of fun. I
hope you guys enjoyed that. Let us know, you know,
if again, if you knew that was Mario or not
Sean Connery and any thoughts about anything about your opinions
on the games, the CRS, you know, would you take
that game? Who knows? But whenever you're hear FROMS next,
I promise you it'll not be boring,