Speaker 1: This is a podcast from Minute Media.
Speaker 2: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Surely You Can't
Be Serious podcasts, The podcast that makes Cambo Do you
look like Kansas?
Speaker 3: This is episode two of RoboCop nineteen eighty seven versus
Predator nineteen eighty seven.
Speaker 2: So why are we doing this podcast?
Speaker 3: Because some damn full accused you of being the best
there was? Jason, what's the matter? The CIA got you
pushing too many pencils. Huh had a nut?
Speaker 2: Make it easy on yourself, man, Okay, okay, all right,
stick around, Thank you for not smoking? All right.
Speaker 3: The RoboCop was released July seventeenth, nineteen eighty seven. It
finished first to the box office. Not a great week
at the box office because you had a re release
of Snow White. Okay, you also had Jaws The Revenge
came out the same weekend.
Speaker 2: Oh did Jaws the Revenge do Welles?
Speaker 3: The Revenge kind of did well? We need to talk
about that. In fact, let's talk about that here in
a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, a preview. In just a couple of weeks,
we will be beginning our Worst of nineteen eighty seven
series where we compare Jaws for the Revenge versus Superman
for the Quest for more money, I mean the Quest
for peace.
Speaker 3: If you need to brush up on those, now's the time. Yeah, okay,
let's talk casting for RoboCop.
Speaker 4: My friend's call you, Murphy, did you call me Robocops?
Speaker 3: We mentioned that your first call for RoboCop is Arnold Schwarzenegger,
even though RoboCop would look ridiculous, I mean, it'd be massive.
That wasn't gonna work. Plus he was doing Predator. So
the next call they make is Sylvester Stallone. Naturally, same
problem as Arnes Schwarzenegger is just going to be too
darn big to put in that RoboCop cost it right,
So then they could make a phone call to armand Sante.
Speaker 2: Okay, so later those two guys would be in a
movie called Judge Dredd. Yes, that's right, and Judge Dredd
is the character from the comic books that they gave
to Paul Vererhoven to say, this is what we want
our RoboCop to be.
Speaker 3: Like really, yeah, that's fantastic. It's a great nugget right there.
Tom Bringer is also called Peter Fonda actually made a
play for this role. So interesting to me. He shows
up at the studio one day, is like, hey, how
about me? Like, no, they also thought about Lance Henrickson.
Speaker 2: Okay, wait, so Lance Heinrichson. Yes, was supposed to be
the terminator, Yes, but didn't get that right, And was
supposed to be RoboCop.
Speaker 3: Yes, get that right. He's also bishop and aliens.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: You got kind of a little trifecta right there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: In fact, he didn't get the part. Hold that. We'll
talk about that here in a second. Okay, okay, So
ultimately they give the part to Peter Weller many special
message for all the kids watching.
Speaker 2: At home, you stay out of trouble.
Speaker 3: They liked it because he's lean.
Speaker 2: Well, they liked him because he was lean, and they
liked him because he was cheap. He wasn't like a
super well known actor at the point, but he had
had enough screen credit to get a following, and the
following was just where they needed it. It was in
the sci fi world.
Speaker 3: Huh.
Speaker 2: He had just done a movie called Bukeru Bonzai.
Speaker 3: Right, You and I had talked before we started recording.
Neither one of us are fans of that movie.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen that movie since probably the nineties, maybe
even yeah, maybe even the eighties. I think I watched
it because of RoboCop. I was like, oh, that's the
guy from RoboCop, and I'll watch that. And it has
Jeff Goldbloom in it, and a few other guys that
are pretty big. Yeah, John Litt, I remember hating John
Lithgow's character.
Speaker 3: That's so weird.
Speaker 2: It wasn't something that termy owns the time. But that
may be one of those movies that if once I
go back and look at it, I can appreciate it again.
Speaker 3: It's been too long, good luck, because I watched it
not too long ago. I thought it was terrible, but
I know people love it so right, all right, And
then finally we mentioned rugger Hower, right, but he and
Verhoven had had a fallen out, and Rudder Harris like,
screw that. I'm not working with him anymore.
Speaker 2: That's yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 3: Then for the part of Dick Jones, they hire Ronnie Cox.
Speaker 1: Fellow executives, it gives me great pleasure to introduce you
to the future of law enforcement.
Speaker 2: It's a great casting call because Ronnie Cox has played
nothing but nice guys.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, he's a detective Bogelo mil from Beverly Hills cop.
Speaker 2: He well, I was thinking, he's the guy that plays
in the dueling Banjos with the inbred guy on the porch.
Speaker 3: That's true, he does that as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah so he but he again, nice guy, nice guy,
like a rule follower, and this is the opposite. Dick
Jones is the opposite of that. Yes, absolutely, and he
loved it. He loved the idea of playing a villain
because he felt like he could just be as evil
as he wanted to be and was completely okay. And
it's perfect because you look at him and he's got
a nice guy, clean cut guy look going. But then
whenever he whenever he shows you at the dark side,
you're like, oh.
Speaker 3: Oh my, he goes right from taking a dump in
that stall.
Speaker 2: To cumping that guy's face.
Speaker 3: Yes, there is no hand washing, grabs his hair. Yeah,
it's very f Yeah, yep, don't f with me, especially
when I haven't washed my hands. And also you have
kirkwood Smith. Kirkwood Smith plays Bodiker.
Speaker 2: Right, He's been in a bunch of stuff. I always
think the seventies show. I think he's hilarious.
Speaker 3: He's great in the seventy show.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: I knew him first from Dead Poets Society.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, the mean dad.
Speaker 3: He's the mean dad.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: He was also kind of a scene as moral intellectual guy.
So for him to play this sleazy cocaine dealing smoking,
you know, sleezy bad guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The glasses that they gave him to wear in
that one were deliberately to make him look like Henry
Kaimler from Uh Wow Germany.
Speaker 3: That scene when he confronts and kills Spob in his
house with the hookers and the drugs, and he just
walks in and he's like putting his gun together, and
the guy's like, whatever, you're getting paid, I'll double it.
He doesn't even face him. He's there on a mission.
Speaker 2: He makes that scene where they kill Murphy. Yeh yeah,
I mean he is the guy that drives that scene
from beginning to end. You probably don't think I'm a
very nice guy, buddy. I think you're sliming. See, I
got this problem. Cops don't like me, so I don't
like cops. You got the other guys laughing, and it's
all just this big joke, and so it's.
Speaker 3: This beautiful dying.
Speaker 2: It is this beautiful clash between guys hysterically laughing while
also doing the most horrific violence upon the hero of
the movie.
Speaker 3: The first time I saw that, it was so disturbing
because he's got the shotgun and he's waving around and
I'm like, he's not gonna do this. He blows his
hand off, and then they shoot him a thousand more times, right,
and they blow his arm off, shoot him in the head,
and then they're still trying to save his life. I'm like,
that guy is dead, people, he dead, baby, Yeah, all right,
here's the one that's gonna blow you ay.
Speaker 2: And by the way, is exactly what Caleb said. He's like,
are they kidding? Are they kidding? Right now? With the
shocking what are they really think that they shot him
in the head?
Speaker 3: That dude is Swiss cheese? Which is funny to think about.
Who got shot more Murphy the executive at the wrong place,
wrong time in the office or Sonny from The Godfather.
I mean they all got blasted a billion.
Speaker 2: Times, right right?
Speaker 3: Okay, so you're ready for this. Stephanie Zimbalist from Remington
Steel was originally cast as Lewis Remington Steele.
Speaker 2: We're back to Pierce Brosen again.
Speaker 3: Yes, JN.
Speaker 2: Mctarnan, Nomad's got it, okay, jumping forward Remington Steele, I
got it. Well, she would have been a good one.
She's very attractive. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So here's the interesting thing about this. When you and
I were talking about this, Remington Steele had been canceled. Right,
So Stephanie Zimblist is free to make movies. Okay, So
what happens. Pierce Brosnan is then hired to be the
next James Bond in nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 2: That's right after Roger Moore. Okay, that's not after.
Speaker 3: No, it's not Timothy Dawning Okay, okay, so follow me
on this, all right, all right, Yeah, this is such
an incredible thing. Pierce Brosnen was supposed to be James
Bond after Roger Moore gave it up after a view
to a kill. Okay, so think Pierce Brosen in The
Living Daylights.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah.
Speaker 3: But here's the deal. When they hired him to play
the next James Bond, there was this incredible swell of
interest in Pierce Brosnan. Well, the Ravington Steel people had
a clause in their contract that if they decided to
change their mind. They could, and so once Pierce Brosnen
had all this interest because he was playing James Bond,
the Ravington Steel people said, you know what, I think
we will go ahead and make another season of Rivington Steel.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: So they pulled Pierce Brosnan out of James Bond and
they pulled Stephanie Zimbolist out of RoboCop.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So they killed the movie careers for
a time of both of those people. Yes, they did,
because Pierce Brosnan didn't come in for like another ten.
Speaker 3: Years old and I was in ninety five.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So yeah, that's basically almost ten years later.
Speaker 3: It's crazy.
Speaker 2: And Stephanie Zimbolists did she do anything after Remington's I
don't think so. Wow wow. Okay, so she's out. She
like she was in as Lewis yep. And now she's
out because they pulled her back into Rimington Steel. Yep.
And so then they hire.
Speaker 3: They hire Nancy Allen. Glad to know you, Murphy.
Speaker 2: So Nancy Allen, I remember as the mean girl from Carrie.
Speaker 3: That's what everybody remembers her from.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, So here's the interesting thing about this Nancy Allen's
dad was a New York cop.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: She was talking to the director about why she have
this part. She said, my dad was a cop. We
always knew in our house that it went number one, partner,
number two, family, number three, himself.
Speaker 2: Wow. We knew that.
Speaker 3: His partner was the most important person in his life.
And so that's what I'm going to bring to this role. Wow,
that Lewis and Murphy are the number one people in
each other's lives.
Speaker 2: And then they made her cut her hair.
Speaker 3: They didn't want anybody to think, well, Lewis and RoboCop
ought to have a romance. Yeah, and so they said, like,
cut your hair short and you're not looking sexy. There's
no romance. We're not doing that. And then we have
our man, Miguel ferrer who plays Bob Morton. I don't
know anything that he has done other than he was
in the TV series The Stand Guy's awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he passed away a few years ago.
Speaker 1: Did he.
Speaker 3: That's too bad Miguel Ferrara. By the way, when Nancy
Allen showed up for the first day of filming, she
walks in, She's like, okay, get a lay of the land.
Figure out what everybody's doing, and they're filming the outtakes
for the TV show. It's not my problem. This is
the guy who's like, I'll buy that for a dollar.
He's there with the two boob girls and the cake and.
Speaker 2: The boob girls.
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, we've had our shots. Yeah, and she thought,
what do I got myself into? Dan o'hillary plays the
old Man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's an actor from way back.
Speaker 3: He's a major character in the franchise. We never get
his name.
Speaker 2: He's just the old man, just the old man.
Speaker 3: In fact, he's kind of the good guy in the
first RoboCop.
Speaker 2: Okay, I mean you know, I mean he's neutral. He's
still the guy that after the guy is violently murdered
there in the office, his first response is, I'm very disappointed.
Speaker 3: That man just got shot one hundred and forty six
thousand times.
Speaker 2: They're calling in for an ambulance. They're gonna do something. Yeah,
And then and then Dick is like, is a glitch? Glitch? Right?
Speaker 3: We get that fixed it, no problem. We called our
old man boner and a hole, but there is always respect.
Here's a story for you. So, Peter Weller, they're shooting
this in August of nineteen eighty six in Dallas.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be warm.
Speaker 3: Okay, we're two and a half hours away from Dallas.
It's late July. My car read one hundred and four
today when I drove over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been freaking hot, particularly hot summer this summer,
but there was probably still pretty dang warm down in Dallas.
Back in the eighties.
Speaker 3: It was ridiculously hot, like super hot, they said. Peter
Weller lost three pounds a day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the suit.
Speaker 3: And the funny thing is is that he had trained
like with a mine coach, and he had worked on
all this miming, you know. Yeah, then when he got
the suit on, he realized, I can't move it all
in this thing. Yeah, Like I am stiff as a
board C three po style walking.
Speaker 2: Around having trouble. So you know who designed his suit,
Mister Rob Botein. Mister Rob Botein, who talked about a
couple times now, Ye, Rob Boutein from the.
Speaker 3: Howling he did howling, he did the thing.
Speaker 2: Yes, both of which we've covered. Check those episodes out.
They're great. So he comes in to help out Paul
Verehoven make the RoboCop costume Paul Verehoven has no experience
in science fiction whatsoever, but he's also a major control freak. Yes,
and so when he sees the design that Rob Botein
has done, he's like nope. And it's like okay, and
they reads designs he's like nope, and again and again,
just rejection after rejection. Right, finally they get it and
they're like, this is horrible, but let's try it. It
doesn't work at all, right, and he Paul Verhoven has
to go, you know what I was wrong? You're right,
Let's go back to the first cost. This time Roboteen
is like, are you kidding me? And so they were
super super mad at each other after this movie, like
we're talking to each other. But the movie was such
a success that when they decided to do Total Recall,
they decided to team back up.
Speaker 3: Hey, by the way, you and I did an episode
of Total Recall with our good friends over the thirty
something Movie podcast. So actually, if you're listening to this,
go over to the thirty something Movie Podcast listen to
their entire library, but also be sure and check out
the episode we did on Total Recall with them.
Speaker 2: Paul Verhoven would get together again with the writer of
RoboCop to do a movie ten years later called Starship Troopers. Yes,
Starship Troopers was based upon a novel that was written
by another guy that we talked about during our Thing episode,
Robert Heinlein.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: Robert Heinlein was the guy who when Philip K. Dick
got in tax trouble, he said, I'll pay your taxes
for you. That is, never had met the man before,
but loved his work and said, I'll pay your taxes
for you.
Speaker 3: You know what else, while we're on the subject, Paul
Verhoven has done Basic Instinct, which everybody in the early
nineties saw.
Speaker 2: If they were a teenage boy, they sure did.
Speaker 3: If you could get in you saw that. And he
also did a movie called Showgirls.
Speaker 2: I was reading about this. I went off on that sidetrack.
I went down that hole, if you will. And they're saying,
they're saying that Showgirls has become a cult classic. I
can't believe it. I refuse to believe it that there
are people out there who were choosing to watch that show.
I just I don't buy it.
Speaker 3: Okay, listen before we get I mean, we're getting off
on this a little bit, but you and I are
studying up on the revenge in Superman four, two of
the worst movies of nineteen eighty seven for sure and
ever and ever. I just did a podcast with our
friends at a film by on Under the Cherry Moon
by Prince, which is terrible yep. We talked about it
and how it compared to Howard the Duck, which was awful.
Those four giant piles of crap don't combine and hold
a candle to the turd.
Speaker 2: That was Showgirls, right, and Showgirls was a movie that
I walked out on. Jaws three was another movie that
I walked out on. The movie that you walked out
on was Last Action That's Right, which of course was
directed by John McTurnan, Yes, starring Arnold Swartzman. Yes, and
Shane Black was there for the after party where they
were like, well that was pretty terrible.
Speaker 3: There's also a cameo of Sharon Stone in that movie.
And it's terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, So do we need to talk special effects
on RoboCop anymore?
Speaker 3: The only thing I want to say more about the
suit and Peter Weller yea and RoboCop. So it was hot, uncomfortable,
it didn't work well with his acting. On top of
all that, Peter Weller's being a pain in the butt
because he's making everybody, you know, do this method acting
thing where he made Verhoven call him either Murphy or
Robo before he would move, you know. And Verhovean had
kind of I mean, he's an anger guy, he's got
a temper thing, and he finally had had enough of
the complaining about the suit and the heat and all
this stuff, so he fires Peter Weller.
Speaker 2: Wait, he fires fires Peter Weller. Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 3: Peter Weller's like, well, fine, I'm tired of walking around
this suit in Dallas. Anyway, so Verehoven decides he's going
to hire Lance Hendrickson. Well, guess what. The million dollars
that they spend on the RoboCop suit doesn't fit Lance Hirison.
So they're like, uh, guess what, You've got to call
Peter Weller and make this right mm hm, And so
Verehoven actually had in hand, goes back to Peter Weller
and says, we please come back.
Speaker 2: Listening to Paul Verehoven talk, I get the impression that
it's pretty common thing. In his life that he throws
his fist down, throws his foot down, whatever is like
my way or the highway. But then just give him
a few weeks and he'll be like, I was wrong
about that. I shouldn't have said that. Yeah, he has
the ability later to realize the air of his waist.
Speaker 3: Well, it's one of the things he learned about in America.
He said, in Holland he could yell at everybody and
then go to lunch with them. Over here, people took
it personally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a cultural thing. Okay. Before we get off
the special effects on RoboCop, I have to say that
it was a special effect that caused me to want
to go see this movie in the first place.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: And it wasn't the Robocops special effect, all right. It
was the guy who got thrown into the vat of
toxic waste.
Speaker 3: Oh man, we gotta talk about that.
Speaker 2: I saw that in Fangoria magazine, and I was like,
I gotta go see this. It is an incredibly disturbing
piece of video history, of movie history, to see that
guy hit the toxic waste and come out with his
flesh melting off of his skin, hobbling along begging. He's
got his hands have like melded into some sort of
hoof finger things, and then sure enough the car's coming
along and when it runs him over, he splats like
a water balloon all over the wind.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, Oh, what an amazing effect that was.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like instantly, as soon as he hits that toxic waste,
he becomes melting man and then he liquefies when that
car hits him. Gross, which you and I talked about
prior to recording. Great effect, Great impact, very memorable. The
worst effect in the movie is when Dick Jones is killed.
He shot and he falls out of the window and
you have this weird it's like a stop motion marionette
with giant arms. It's I don't even know what they're
thinking on what did they.
Speaker 5: Do in this?
Speaker 2: It was really bizarre. It's like claymation or something. And
the ED two nine, the stop motion that you see
with that is so obvious. That is definitely a thing
that doesn't hold up over time. It didn't bother me
back then, but today I'm like, ooh, e, this is
a little rough.
Speaker 3: You know what else is weird about that?
Speaker 2: I still pick it over cgi but it looked.
Speaker 3: A little clash of the Titans, yeah, but a lot. Yeah.
So he couldn't walk down the stairs and he ends
up taking a step falling down and he's on his
back feeling.
Speaker 2: Like a pig deliverance Ronnie Cocks. Here you go, keep going.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I remember watching that going why would a
robot squeal like a pig?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Well, it's just weird.
Speaker 2: And it roars like a lion when he's about to
shoot that guy too.
Speaker 3: It does.
Speaker 2: I think it's funny.
Speaker 3: So that scene, they bring the guy to the front
and they're like, hold the gun in a menacing manner
at this thing, and it's like, you have twenty seconds
to comply. I drop your gun. In the script, it's
very clear that the reason why the D two a
nine doesn't stop is because that the carpet in that
office is so lush that when he drops the gun,
it doesn't make a noise. Okay, you actually hear a
guy in the background go he didn't hear it. Ah,
And so he's like, you got five seconds to comply.
The guy's like ah yeah, and then they blow him away.
Speaker 2: Right. But what a memorable scene that was.
Speaker 3: Yes, So we talked about robocops suit, I got one
more effect I want to bring to your attention. Okay,
and this blew me up. So you know when the
guy the councilman's going crazy, he's take the mayor hostage,
and then RoboCop is enacted to go take care of
this terrist situation here.
Speaker 2: You mean the guy that they promised to give a
sucks an s ux six thousand, Yes with a block punk.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And I want my old jaw back, and
I want to recount, and no matter what the results are,
I want to parking spot. Yeah, that guy. So there
is atrophonic block punk, though too bad would be jealous
of that quadrophonic blowpunk. Okay. So there's a fact in
there where RoboCop is looking through the walls and he
sees the heat signature of the guys inside.
Speaker 2: Very predator, very predator. Right.
Speaker 3: Well, you look really closely, it's digitized. They added a
little filter to it, but it's basically a bunch of
naked people that are painted to look like heat index, right,
and when you look at it. So when I read that,
I went back and looked at it. I'm like, holy crap,
those people are naked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fantastic.
Speaker 3: That's crazy, that's great.
Speaker 2: So that's a great let's throw back to the special
effects on Predator.
Speaker 3: Now, guys are the job.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the infrared lenses that they were trying to
use didn't work well for the jungle scenes, yes, and
so they had to had to combine two cameras, basically
had to film the same scene with two different cameras
just at the perfect like they had a guy in
there with a pro tractor, yes, making sure everything was
exactly the same, so that you got one that's given
you the jungle and one that's given you the heat
signature of the guys that are walking around, and then
they blend those. Keep in mind, this is eighty seven,
where we don't have computers doing a whole lot of
stuff at this point. So they melded those two images
together so that you knew what was going on when
you were looking through the eyes of the predator, which,
by the way, another great job by John mcturnon on
this one of not showing you the shark right, Oh yeah,
for sure, because you don't see him, you just see
through his eyes, which is exactly what Spielberg did with Jaws.
And so you know he's there. I mean the moments
that you get with him. You get the dorsal fin
of this kind of fuzzy thing moving through which all good.
Which again, that was a guy in a suit, right,
It was a guy in a red suit. And so
what they would do is they'd film that guy in
the red suit because the red was the strongest contrasting
color with the green of the jungle and the blue
of the sky, and so they could take that and
replace that red color whenever they did the film because
green screen blue screen was can work, right, so they
used the like a chroma key to film it, and
they would film it again with a different frame, and
so when you put those two images together, you had
still the jungle, but it was bent as though it
was bent around the guy in the red suit.
Speaker 3: It's so effective too, the invisibility, the cloaking of the predator, right,
it's awesome.
Speaker 2: And then you've got the predator whose looks in intimidating
when you first see him anyway, right, But then later
on there's another reveal because you get that mask taken
off and you realize, oh my gosh, that's one ugly mother.
Speaker 3: So talk about the mandals, right.
Speaker 2: So I mentioned before they had that we had Richard
England who had designed this horrible, horrible suit, right, And
so they're like, well, we can't, we can't use this.
And so they hire a big, tall actor to play
the part, but they need someone to design a monster
for them, and so who do they go to? Of
course Stan the man Stan Winston. Yes, And so Stan
is flying in an airplane working on a Rastafarian style monster.
If you look at the hair, that really that the
predator has is it's very dreads reggae.
Speaker 5: Kind of guy.
Speaker 2: Right, So it's the Rastafarian monster. He's drawn pictures of
it as he's flying with Joel Silver on one side
of him and Jim Cameron Yes, on the other side
of it. Yes, And as he's James Cameron looks over
and he's like, what are you doing. He's like, Oh,
I'm designing this monster for this new movie that Joel's doing,
and he's like, James Cameron's like, you know, I always
thought it would be cool if there was a monster
with mandibles and Stan Winston's has the little light go on. Yeah,
it's a terrible idea. I don't think that's a good
idea at all. Just go ahead and take care of that.
Speaker 3: When Jim Cameron speaks, you ought to listen. Man, such
a cool effect too, because yeah, he's chasing around. He's
got that cool predator helmet. It's like Darth Vader. Yeah,
and he takes off the Darth Vader helmet. Instead of
being a crusty old white guy, you have a scary monster, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what hell are you?
Speaker 1: Hard? Hard?
Speaker 3: And the mandal and the roar and the mouth. Oh,
it's so good.
Speaker 2: Right And the fact that he's seven foot two doesn't
hurt either.
Speaker 3: Yes, Hey, I got something for you real quick before
we move off of actors. Okay, I thought this was interesting. So,
I mean, you've got manly men, right. These guys are
super buff, they're super tough. They're all alphas, and so
they would get up real early in the morning to
work out. It became a competition to see who could
look the best. It looked the biggest. Carl Weathers said
he would get up at three o'clock in the morning
and he would go lift before they got up.
Speaker 4: Huh.
Speaker 3: And they would never see him in the gym, and
they thought, man, this guy's just really natural. How in
the world's and he's like, I wanted them to think
I was just naturally cut up.
Speaker 2: I just want to get somebody and who could crack
these bestars.
Speaker 3: So he cooked up a story and dropped the six
of us.
Speaker 1: In and be trying.
Speaker 3: Oh one thing I wanted to mention. On April twenty fifth,
nineteen eighty six, they had to stop production of the
movie Predator. Do you know why?
Speaker 2: So royal wedding wasn't it.
Speaker 3: Mister Arnold Schwarzenegger married Maria Shreiver. Yeah, they say production stopped.
They did some second unit stuff, but he flew back,
got married, honeymoon for three days before returning to the
set of Predator.
Speaker 2: It's funny because John McTurnan talks about this. You know,
they get a certain budget for a movie and at
some point they use up all of that money and
so you have to stop because you have no more
money to pay people, right right. And I think that
I think that maybe Arnold's wedding kind of coincided with
this pretty nicely as well. But they're talking about like
you feel like this is a hindrance. He's like, no,
it's not a hindrance. It's an absolute blessing because you
can go and you can look at what's working, and
you can edit all of this stuff together, because the
whole point is you take that footage that you've done,
you put it all together like it's the movie, and
then you go show it to the guys with the
money yeah, and they go, Okay, we'll give you all money.
Let's finish this picture. And so you can not only
go and create a product that's going to get you
more funding, you also can go back and fix all
your mistakes and know what you need to refilm. So
they've got this multi week break that they have that
he can put together what he's got that works, take
out what doesn't work, and figure out how to fix
it all and most importantly, get more money.
Speaker 3: One of the difficulties I heard some of the production
people mention is when they're shooting in the jungle, this
is not a set, this is actual Mexican jungle, right,
and it's hot, and there's bugs and there's snakes, yes,
And one of the things that they said that you
never really would think it's never flat right, You're always
standing askew yep, And so that really makes it easy
for injuries and it's just never very RESTful, right, Okay,
I've got a little tidbit I want to mention. I
thought this was interesting. Shane Black is seen reading a
comic book in the jungle and it's a Sergeant Rock
comic book, yes, which was interesting because mciernon said at
the time, Arnold Schwarzenegger was supposed to star in a
movie about Sergeant Rock, which if you're a kid in
the eighties you remember it as kind of like the
other Gi Joe, and so Arnold Schwarzenegger brought all these
comic books to read because he's studying up on the
part of Sergeant Rock. Obviously that never happened, but Shane
Black was like, hey, can I read some of your
comic books? And they filmed him reading some of the
Sergeant Rock comic books.
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't want to get away from these movies
without at least touching on the composers. I think that
the music, especially for Predatory, is a key factor. Right sure,
So before I get there, let me talk about RoboCop.
Robo CoP's got a really unique style. It's very like
it's one of the subtle soundtracks. It's not one that
grabs you, but it does a really good job of
carrying the story along. It's definitely there. But the guy,
the composer for RoboCop is this guy named Basil Polidorius, Right,
Have you heard of him? No? I haven't. Well you
would think that you would have, because he was also
the composer for Conan the Barbarian, Red Dawn, Iron Eagle,
The Hunt for Red October, Free Willie Starsroop Troopers, And
I mean he's he's been around, he's when Emmy's he's
he's a pretty accomplished guy. So he's one of those
guys that I love when we do these things that
I'm like, oh, I'm introduced to this guy that I've
never really heard of before, But why haven't I He
should be one of those guys. He's an award winning
composer of some of the greatest movies of the eighties
and nineties. I am glad that I now know who
he is. Wow, I Basil Polidorius.
Speaker 3: Okay, Ley miser up. That's a that's an impressive line up, man.
And it's not like those are movies I have never seen.
I mean, those are big time movies.
Speaker 2: Right, So then my question to you is do you
know who the composer is for Predator.
Speaker 3: I do. I do as Yeah, hot off.
Speaker 2: Of Back to the Future, we've got Alan Silvestri. And
when you know it's him, you're like, oh, well, of
course it is, because it has all of his standard tricks.
I mean it's just if Allan Sivestri did not score
this movie, I don't think we'd be talking about it today. Really,
I really really think that. I mean because I mean, simply,
you've got a army blow them up movie followed by
a predator hunt. But it's not some big intricate plot, right,
I mean, there's no sure it's it's not super strong,
like it's kind of top gun, right, It's just a
very simple plot line. Right. But when you throw his
score in there, that's got these big worn blast the
strings that have got the staccato rhythms in him, get
the big bunyrol to get the I mean, it's that
music that takes this movie up to the unforgettable level.
Speaker 3: The Predator theme, I think is a great suspense theme.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And what's crazy is they didn't release it for like
twenty years.
Speaker 2: I mean it was like, why did they do that?
Speaker 3: It makes it and when they did release it.
Speaker 2: It is sold out in a day, right. It's just
it is crazy that this soundtrack did not get more
credit than it did. It's definitely deserving because it is
so strong, and in every Predator movie that they've done
since then, they've used it. I mean, he was the
composer for Predator two. Sure, which, by the way, there's
another interesting connection because we've got who are who's our
hero in Predator two, Danny Danny Glover from Leith, the Weapon.
Speaker 3: And the other guy. You got Bill Paxton who is
in Aliens, and you've got.
Speaker 2: The Blonde the Blonde Bomb. You've got you've got mister
Gary Busey.
Speaker 3: Oh that's exactly right.
Speaker 2: Who is mister John and the Weapon? Right?
Speaker 3: It was yeah, wow, that is big time. Hey, you
know we talked in our Blade Runner episode how there's
connective tissue between Blade Runner, Aliens, Terminator, RoboCop, the Abyss.
I think it's so fun to think that these are
all in the same universe.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Man, if we could get like a whole series
with all these guys together, I think be fantastic. Oh
my gosh, So have you got some interesting tidbits situation?
Speaker 3: I have a few tidbits that I want to share.
Speaker 2: Hit me.
Speaker 3: Okay, now, this one blew me away. In Sacramento, California,
a robbery suspect fled into a darkened movie theater to
escape police. He became so engrossed in RoboCop, which was
playing on the screen he failed to notice that the
police came in and had taken over the movie theater.
When they flipped the lights on, all he could do
was surrender better alive. RoboCop was submitted to the MPAA
twelve times before it got an R rating. It was
rated X eleven times. Wow, how about that?
Speaker 2: Too violent?
Speaker 3: Very very violent.
Speaker 2: I mean there's one brief booby scene at the very beginning,
the very beginning, Yep, that's it. The rape scene, like
the attempted rape scene was pretty cartoony. Okay, I thought,
was that scary for the kid my age? That was
a little intense. Yeah, I mean he goes up under
her dress with a knife.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, I guess so.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: The three or excuse me, the four prime directives of RoboCop. Yes, okay,
I want to talk about this for just a second.
Number one, Serve the public trust, yes. Number two, protect
the innocent, yes, number three uphold. The law number four
classified was classified. Yep, But we learned later that any
attempt to arrest a senior officer at OCP results in shutdown,
which I thought it would have been more effective instead
of acting like you're having a seizure to just freeze.
That's a minor thing with me. But these are taken
from Isaac Asimov's three laws on robotics. Okay, Isaac Asimov,
the guy who lived in Central Park, guy that was
pissed at the Ghostbusters for filming.
Speaker 2: The greatest sci fi writer of all time?
Speaker 3: Exactly, Yes, I am familiar. I think it's disgusting that
these are his three laws of robotics.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay.
Speaker 4: The first law was that a robot couldn't hurt a
human being or through an action, allow a human being
to come to harm. The second law was that a
robot had to obey orders given it by human beings,
provided that didn't conflict with the first law. And the
third law was that a robot had to protect its
own existence, except where that would conflict with the first
two laws.
Speaker 3: Have you seen the KFC commercials that RoboCop is it?
Speaker 2: I have not seen.
Speaker 3: I said that to you today.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm sorry. I was kind of in the
middle of something.
Speaker 3: Well, you're missing a treat because RoboCop had Peter Weller
in the suit doing commercials for kfcill Kentucky Froutchigen is delicious.
Speaker 2: What's the sick of recipe? If I told you I'd
have to kill you?
Speaker 3: Ha ha ha, You're going to take the family package
that are alive.
Speaker 2: Waste makes taste for time?
Speaker 3: Is the precinct in Dallas used for filming in RoboCop
is the same precinct that Lee Harvey Oswald was taken
to after shooting John F.
Speaker 2: Kennedy. Oh, the one he was taken out of where
he gets shot by Jack Ruby.
Speaker 3: Exactly. Wow, kind of famous. You may have heard of it.
You may have heard of it. One thing we have
to talk about is the religious imagery of RoboCop.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Paul Verhoven he mentions that he wanted to
do a christ dying on the cross part in his movie, right, yes,
And so obviously that's what we get when we have
when we have the murder of Murphy, right, I mean
he's outstretched it, I mean, he's very Jesus being murdered
by the Romans. It's very very.
Speaker 3: Strong crucifixion of Murphy right with the shotguns.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, and interesting and I pointed this out to
you that it happens again. You know, you have death
and resurrection because he comes back as RoboCop right then,
even as RoboCop when we see him and he's confronting
when he's confronting Bodiker out in the kind of sewer area,
he looks like he's walking on the water.
Speaker 3: That was all done intentionally, and that blew me.
Speaker 2: Away, right, and then they drop the junk, you know,
the giant metal bars on top of him, and he
dies again, except that this time instead of him being pierced,
he pierces the other guy.
Speaker 3: He does, that's right.
Speaker 2: And he's resurrected once again, and he comes back to
comes back to confront Dick Jones after that. So he
says what Paul Verehoven says is the first one is
the historical death of Jesus on the cross. The second
one is the American Jesus. It's Jesus with a shotgun, right,
which and he points out a biblical verse. He's like,
you know, Jesus says, go sell your cloak and buy
a sword. Well that's what he does. He comes back
with a sword.
Speaker 3: Interesting. Yeah, it's an interesting take. One other thing I
was going to mention to you on RoboCop. The owners
of the house in Dallas where Bob Morton is killed.
They were thrilled that there was a movie that was
going to happen inside their house, until they realized that
it was hookers, cocaine and murder. They had reservations. They
shot it anyway. Yeah, but I thought that was interesting.
Speaker 2: But they didn't actually blow up their house, No, they
did not. They did blow up a lot of stuff
though in this movie.
Speaker 3: They did that gas station.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Before we talk final judgment. There's one other thing I
was going to mention. RoboCop has Robo Cup two, Robo
Cup three. It had a cartoon series. It kind of
got diluted after this R rated gore Fest. Predator has
had Predator, Predator two, Predator Vusalien. All of these have
got continually worse.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we talked about Pray, We talked about Prey.
It's one that's coming up. And there's been talk for
a while about a Robocopp returns that disregards basically everything
that happened after RoboCop one and treats it like that's
the beginning point is the end of RoboCop one. They've
gone through a couple of directors and it's kind of
it seems to me it might be in development hell
at this point, but I'm hopeful.
Speaker 3: Are we ready to get to the Choppa and do
to Chop? Okay, everybody, We've got a very special Shirley showcase. Today.
We're hearing from Jeff Johnson, one of the co hosts
of the film By podcast, and he is going to
talk about his thoughts on RoboCop versus Predator.
Speaker 5: Hello, Shirley fans, this is Jeff Johnson from a film
By podcast, and I'm gonna have me some fun because
today we are discussing two of my favorite movies from
nineteen eighty seven, Predator and RoboCop. First, let's set the
Chopper down in Central America, where Arnold Schwarzenegger is leading
a powerhouse group of nineteen eighties muscle deep into the
Jungles on a CIA sponsored rescue mission. After a quick
firefight and some quality catchphrases, the real threat emerges when
a seven foot highly skilled alien with an advanced weaponry
begins hunting the team for sport. The final battle between
Dutch and the Predator is an intense display of hand
to hand combat, from the first punch throne to the
explosive finale. Now back on the streets of old Detroit,
the threat is no less dangerous, with the city's crime
rate out of control and a police department on the
brink of strike. Enter Alex Murphy on his first day,
tragically and horrifically executed, only to be resurrected as OCP's RoboCop,
the answer to cleaning up the streets. Scream Queen Nancy
Allen proves she can pack a punch as she helps
RoboCop take down everybody, from street level thugs to corporate scumbags.
So what happens when these two Titans of nineteen eighty
seven face off, Well, I think when the smoke clears,
you'll see Arnold Schwarzenegger standing triumphantly, much the same.
Speaker 3: Way he did at the end of Predator.
Speaker 5: RoboCop is clever for its ability to create an immersive
experience with the news breaking segments and the commercials, but
it tends to lean a little too much on the
hyperviolence to sell what should already be an incredible story,
and that takes a little bit of fun out of it.
And while it's fun to watch Arnold Schwarzenegger fight what
he refers to as one ugly mother of an alien,
the real fun is watching him stand shoulder to shoulder
and fight alongside Hollywood tough guys like Bill Duke, Jesse,
the Body, Ventura, Sunny Landam and Carl Weathers. It's like
watching the nineteen eighty seven edition of The Expendables, and
that's why it gets my pick. D Jason, I ain't
got time to bleed, but I always got time for
a Shirley Showcase. So thanks for listening and we'll talk
again soon.
Speaker 3: I love it when you give Jeff an invitation like
this because he really comes with the full one hundred
mile an hour fastball. One of my favorite Shirley Showcases
of all time is when Jeff did the Top Gun
soundtrack Shirley Showcase. If you haven't heard that, go back
and listen. Super funny, super clever, super insightful. And that's
what you get over a film by podcast, Just great
stuff from them. Jeff, thanks again, buddy, We will see
you down the line. Jeff, thank you. For your cooperation.
Speaker 2: Okay, guys, time for final judgment. I'm gonna go ahead
and serve it up to you, my friend. You get
to go first.
Speaker 3: Your move, creep, my moove creep.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay. These movies are interesting because I did not see
them either, one of these in the theater. Hmkay. These
are HBO movies for me. Yeah, And I think at
the time, I saw Predator first, and I saw RoboCop
kind of in pieces. And when I saw RoboCop, I
didn't understand the sat tire, I didn't understand the sort
of over the top goofiness. I didn't like the TV show,
but I did like the character a lot if I
was a super iconic character. I think both movies have
eighties iconic characters. For me, though, when I watch Predator,
I think it's an interesting movie because I'm watching a
special Forces movie that liides with aliens, and for me,
that movie works better. I choose Predator, and I still
love RoboCop, but for me, it's all the way Predator,
no question, slam Dunk's bike football Predator. Okay, so how
could you not vote for Arnold with his gigantic biceps
In nineteen eighty seven you need to get to the job.
Your move creep.
Speaker 2: Okay, so nostalgia is a big part of your opinion
on this one. It is, there's no question about it.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: So I will tell you that I saw RoboCop beginning
to end back in the eighties. It took me a
long time to see Predator. I think it was probably
nineties or two thousands before I saw Predator the first time. Really, Okay,
I rewatched it again. I had remembered the end wrong.
I thought at the end that the Predator set off
his little self destruct thing and it killed Dutch, and
I thought, wow, yeah, So upon the rewatching, let me
just say, neither one of these movies is perfect, right,
They're both awesome. They're both there haulking testa steroni shooting guns. Yes,
awesome for sure, but they've also got problems. They've both
got problems.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: When it was, when it was I was watching Predator
and Caleb was marveling at all of the explosions. I
was chuckling to myself. I'm just like, this is just absurd.
How many bullets and bombs are going off.
Speaker 3: Right now, kidding me? Compared to RoboCop.
Speaker 2: Right, And so then I rewatched RoboCop. I'm like, Okay,
there's a lot of big explosions, a lot of bullets
in this one, too, right, But for me, again, it's
just like you, it's the nostalgia thing, except that my
nostalgia is with robo Cop. I kind of I like
the storyline better with RoboCop, probably largely influenced by that.
I saw it back then and loved it back then,
but I just felt like there was more of a story.
There was more going on with Murphy and his remembering
and what it means to be a man versus being
a robot, and then the surprise that the leader of
the corporation is the guy who's behind the bad guys.
I just it was to me always a much more
impactful movie. Plus the special effects just freaking awesome. So
I gotta Gorobo cop Man. Sorry, Spiking Football, it's rebo
cop all away from me. Thank you for your cooperation.
Speaker 3: Okay, interesting, So I'm Predator, you're robo cop. We want
to hear from you, guys, which one do you choose?
Somebody's got to be the robber match here because we're tied.
Speaker 2: Yeah, get we gotta get a tiebreaker. So you guys,
tell us what you think. Guys, be sure and if
you haven't subscribed to our patroon page, do that. If
you're not ready to do that yet, leave us a
five star rating and put a review in there. If
you put in the review, get to the.
Speaker 3: Choppa or bet or Alive. You're coming with me?
Speaker 2: Yes, that would be an opportunity for you to win
a specially engraved, custom made Ozarka Tumblr cup with the
Shirly Podcast logo and your name. So be sure and
do that.
Speaker 3: Hey, guys, take some time to do this because we
love sending out these cups. So if you enter five
star review, you got a good chance to win one
of these cups.
Speaker 2: So guys, be sure to hit that follow button, hit
that subscribe button on whatever your podcast app is. Because
next week we are bringing you to Monumental Failures from
nineteen eighty seven. We're going to have Superman for the
Quest Piece versus Jaws four Jaws the Revenge, trying to
determine not which one is the best, but which one.
Speaker 3: Is the worst. It's gonna be tough.
Speaker 2: It is a tough It is a tough choice on
which one of those thinkers thinks more.
Speaker 3: We are also inviting our good buddies Jeff and Brad
from the Film By podcast to help us break down
and dissect these two atrocities.
Speaker 2: Yeah, be sure and tune in for that.
Speaker 4: Excuse me, I have to go somewhere.
Speaker 2: There is a crime happening