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Speaker 1: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to

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this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon

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to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you

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want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream,

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my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron,

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go to dpetecleanershow dot com. Make sure you hit the

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subscribe button. Get every episode for free, write to your

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smartphone or tablet, and again, thank you so much for

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your support. On Thursday, yesterday, the US Supreme Court heard

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oral arguments in the case of Trump versus Casa, Inc.

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Though the case arises out of President Donald Trump's January

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executive order on birthright citizenship and the Fourteenth Amendment, the

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oral arguments yesterday had very little to do with the

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hotly contested substantive issue of whether the children of illegal

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aliens born on US soil must automatically be conferred American citizenship. Instead,

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the argument mostly focused on a procedural legal issue which

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is actually just as important as the underlying substantive issue

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of birthright citizenship itself. And here's the substantive legal procedural issue.

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Whether lower court federal judges have the legitimate power to

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issue nationwide injunctions to bring laws or executive orders to

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a complete halt throughout the entire Republic. I have covered

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this in the past over the last few months when

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this story started kind of or the case started, you know,

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percolating through the system, and I said, there's you know,

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I don't know what the Trump administration strategy is on

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the birthright citizenship thing, right on the executive order, but

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there has always been clearly to me these two tracts.

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One is the issue itself right, the birthright citizenship issue,

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where there is a difference of opinion about whether the

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Supreme Court got it right or wrong, or whether it

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is it is settled right that if you simply come

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to the country illegally have the child here, that that

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child is automatically a US citizen, even if you are

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here illegally.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: That's a separate question than the injunctions. And they could

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have they could have fought this injunction fight on any

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number of cases, because you have all these Democrat judges

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that have been issuing national injunctions since Trump started doing

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the executive orders, and it has created chaos. These you know,

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loan judges on a bench saying you can't enact that policy,

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and my order covers the entire country. And there has

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been over the years, recent years, various comments and arguments

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made by members of the Supreme Court that seem to

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indicate they recognize there is a problem going on here

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with these lower court federal district judges issuing nationwide injunctions,

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but for some reason the Supreme Court has been unable

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or unwilling to try to rein them in. And according

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to Josh Hammer, who is the senior editor at large

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over at Newsweek and the host of The Josh Hammer Show,

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regarding this question of nationwide injunctions, he says, there is

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a very straightforward answer to this question. No, they do not.

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They do not have this power, this legitimate power, And

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it is imperative for American constitutionalism and Republican self governance

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that the Justices clearly affirm this that the lower court

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judges do not have the power to issue an injunction

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that covers the entire country. You are not a federal

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district judge of the entire US. You are a judge

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in that district. So first, let's set the table. Article

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three of the Constitution establishes the judicial power of the

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United States Article three. By the way, Josh Hammer is

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also a senior lawyer, senior counsel for the Article three project,

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the Article three project. I've talked to Will Chamberlain about

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it as well. He's also with the Article three project.

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This is their focus. It's on the judiciary. Article one executive,

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Article two is or sorry, Article one is Congress. Article

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two is executive. Article three is judicial branches. That's where

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they lay out in the Constitution the powers. So Article

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three talks about the judicial power, the power to issue

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binding judgments and to settle legal disputes within the court's jurisdiction.

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That's the key part there. If the federal courts can

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bind parties, right, plaintiffs, defendants. If they can bind parties,

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then the crucial question is who who are the parties?

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In other words, what is the legitimate jurisdiction of who

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is strictly bound by a federal court that issues an injunction?

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Hammer says, in our system of governance, it is only

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the named parties to a given lawsuit that can truly

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be bound by court's judgment, a federal court's injunction. He

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goes on to say later in the piece, a federal

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court injunction only binds the defendant's conduct with respect to

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the plaintiff. If other courts in other districts face a

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similar case, then those judges might consider their peer judge's

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decision and follow that. But they are not strictly required

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to do so. Right, So, if I don't like some

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executive order and I sue in the Charlotte area and

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I win, well, that would control for my area. And

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if you and you live and let's say Omaha, and

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you agree with me and you don't like the executive

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order either, you don't get to then, just like benefit

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from my lawsuit, you would have to file your own.

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And when you file your own, that district court judge

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could look at the one that ruled in favor for

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me and say, well, that judge in Charlotte said Pete

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was right, and they ruled in Pete's favor, So I'm

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going to rule in your favor in Omaha. And that's

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the system. Rather than a national a national restriction or

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injunction for truly national legal issues, the proper recourse is

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a class action lawsuit. This is authorized by Rule twenty

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three of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. Oh but

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that's hard to do. Yes, it is, Yes, it is.

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You have to get certified as a class in order

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to file class action lawsuits. But that's the way you're

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supposed to do it for a nationwide type of a case.

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He goes on to quote Abraham Lincoln who warned in

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his first inaugural address, quote, the candid citizen must confess

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that if the policy of the government, upon vital questions

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affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by

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the judiciary the instant they are made in ordinary litigation

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between parties and personal actions, than the peace people will

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have ceased to be their own rulers. What does that mean?

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If you rely on the judiciary right to quote, fix

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things immediately upon their ruling, then you do not rule yourself.

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You are ruled by lawyers in black robes. He goes

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on to say. Josh Hammer goes on to say, it's

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true that Chief Justice John Marshall's landmark eighteen oh three

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ruling Marbury versus Madison established that quote it is emphatically

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the province and duty of the Judicial Department to say

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what the law is. But but Marshall said something else.

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In fact, it's the very next sentence. Those who apply

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the rule to particular cases must of necessity expound and

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interpret that rule right. The key phrase there, apply the

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role to particular cases. Marbury v. Madison is often erroneously

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evoked to support judicial supremacy. But the modest case and

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litigant specific judicial review that Marshall established has nothing to

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do with the modern judicial supremacy and these nationwide injunctions

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that proliferate today. It is the fallacious conception of judicial

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supremacy that was argued Thursday at the Supreme Court. So

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what are the chances that the Supreme Court rangs this in?

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Speaker 3: All?

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Speaker 1: Right? So spring is here a time of renewal and celebrations.

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You've got graduations, weddings, anniversaries, and the special days for

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mom and dad. Your family's making memories that are going

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to last a lifetime. But let me ask you, are

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photos slides? Are they preserved? Because over time, these precious

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are accepted to get all the details that create a

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video dot com. Remember Brett Winterble joining me for the pregame?

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We call it pregaming with Brett or pregaming with Brett went,

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pregaming with winter Pregaming with Brett. Yeah, that's what we

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call it from now on. Dan McLaughlin writing over at

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National Review about this Trump VI CASA Inc. Challenge Donald

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Trump's executive order eliminating birthright citizenship and the scope of

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nationwide injunctive relief that district courts have been using. Now,

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he says, judging from the argument the oral argument yesterday,

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it appears that the court is going to focus its

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decision narrowly on the nationwide injunction issue. They may not

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even take up the birthright citizenship portion. The administration may

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live to regret choosing this case as a vehicle to

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decide that question, the injunctive relief question. So first, why

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would they not do the national birthright or birthright citizenship issue.

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This gets to the fourteenth Amendment, right ratified eighteen sixty eight,

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says all persons born or naturalized in the US, and

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subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States,

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and that qualification there subject to the jurisdiction thereof. Like,

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that's the sticking point. What does that mean? And then

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there was this case in eighteen ninety eight, thirty years

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after ratification of the amendment. It's the US versus Wang

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Kim arc And according to McLaughlin, there was much discussion

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in Congress about excluding from citizenship the children of three

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distinct groups, all of whom were considered outside of the

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jurisdiction of American laws, even when on our soil they

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are sovereign Native American tribes. Ambassadors are kings of foreign

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nations and soldiers of invading foreign armies. That's who they

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were talking about when they were listing the subject to

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the jurisdiction thereof. And then came the case Wangkim Mark,

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and the Supreme Court said that this short list of

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people outside of the jurisdiction or protection of American law

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were the only ones whose children would not acquire citizenship

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at birth on our soil. Okay, So the Supreme Court

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may very well just say yeah, they yeah, we got

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it right back then. So after Trump signed the executive order,

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lawsuits followed immediately. The administration has lost in every court

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to consider the issue so far, because lower courts are

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not the proper place to challenge that Wan Kim are

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ruling right, that's Supreme Court precedent, and so you don't

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go through the lower courts in order to challenge them.

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The President several justices noted during arguments yesterday that they'd

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taken the case this case just to decide the injunction issue.

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And that's why McLoughlin thinks that the birthright citizenship thing's

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going nowhere. They're not going to overturn that precedent. They're

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just going to focus on the injunctions. Sam Alito was

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especially insistent on that point. That's why he wanted this case.

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Chief Justice John Roberts even at one point cut off

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the Solicitor General John Sower from spending time arguing the merits,

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in other words, arguing about the birthright citizenship portion. He

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cut them off, ironically, just after Roberts had complained that

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Sonya Soda Mayor was not letting Sour answer a question.

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So he chastised Sonya Soda Mayor for cutting off the

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Solicitor General, and then he turned around and her cut

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off John Sower too. Anyway, the challengers conceded that the

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Court would need to order supplemental briefing if it wanted

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to side the birthright citizenship question. So these are signs

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that you know, the Supreme Court watchers look at when

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they try to get a read on where the minds

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of the of the justices are next. And by the way,

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this is a National Review if you are interested to

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read this. It's a very lengthy piece published yesterday called

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the Birthright Citizenship Showdown, focuses on nationwide injunctions. Page three,

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Dan McLaughlin says Trump administration is the Trump administration is

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playing for arguably bigger stakes here than the definition of citizenship.

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They're playing for an end to the routine practice of

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district courts entering nationwide injunctions under which individual judges in

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deep blue states or deep red if there's a Democrat

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president right but right now, deep blue state judges that

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tie the hands of the entire executive branch while a

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case is working its way through the courts. Such orders

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often begin with a temporary restraining order, which is issued

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before the Justice Department lawyers can even get into the

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courthouse door to make their case. This is forum shopping,

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judge shopping law fare, whatever you want to call it.

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This is part of the strategy that Democrats have been using,

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and Republicans have started adopting this too. They started doing

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this as well. You go to your local district court,

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you know that these are Republican appointees or Democrat appointees

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that are going to rule favorably on your argument, and

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you ask for a temporary restraining order and you run

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down there ask for the TRORO, and the defendant barely

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has time to even put together a case before the

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tro gets slapped onto the government. And that means you've

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got a restraining order. It means you can't do anything

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until we hear more of the case. So once that

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freeze happens. Now the executive branch is frozen. They can't

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do anything. Now You've got to schedule the hearings and

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bring in the people, and file the briefs and have

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the arguments, write the opinions, get the opinions, appeal the opinions,

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bring in more people, right, change the venues or whatever like.

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Got to work your way up through the systems. It's

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a stall tactic. I've said this from the very beginning, right.

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The whole point is to delay. There are practical and

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jurisprudential arguments for nationwide injunctions and against nationwide injunctions. He

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outlines three arguments against the national injunctions and three arguments four.

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So here are the arguments against the injunctions. Number one,

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they encourage form shopping, as I just said, right, favorable

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looking for favorable judges, which then gives too much power

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to those judges. Number two, they are asymmetrical. If the

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government wins nine times out of ten, it's still under

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one injunction nationwide. That violates the usual rule in civil

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litigation that the decision binds both sides, but only the

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people actually before the court.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Usual rule in civil litigation that the decision binds both sides,

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but that only means the people that are before the court.

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You cannot bind people outside of this case. The people

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who lost the first nine cases still get to win.

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That problem can be fixed by filing a class actually lawsuit,

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but certifying a class slows down the process, so that's

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why they don't do it right. So them going to

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the district court judges and getting these favorable injunction rulings

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is an end run around the class action lawsuit process

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because it takes too long, and what they are in

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it for is to delay accelerated proceedings, one of the

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other reasons against the nationwide injunctions. Accelerated proceedings often dump

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cases in the Supreme Court's lap before the factual record

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is clear and before the lower courts have had time

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to let the legal issues percolate by different appeals courts

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that take a crack at them. Right, there is a

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reason why you set up the appeals process is so

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all of these different fact facts and patterns and arguments

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can be examined turned over, and you get different judges

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looking at the issues and hearing the facts at different

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levels that then hopefully produces a better product and can

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resolve the matter in the lower courts in a way

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that then stays settled versus slapping injunctions. Get one guy

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looks at some arguments, makes a ruling, and now everything

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is frozen. Now there are some arguments in favor of

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the nationwide injunction. It's anomalous and sometimes impractical for the

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federal Executive Branch, which by design makes and executes policy

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decisions on a national basis, to spend years operating under

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conflicting court rulings in different states. Right, that's a fair argument.

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I think Charlotte makes one ruling, Omaha makes another ruling,

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and it takes a long time to get all the

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way to the US Supreme Court, And in the meantime

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you got different jurisdictions operating with different rules. That is

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a case for nationwide injunctions. There are two others. I'll

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tell you what they are in a minute. Here's a

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memories that'll last a lifetime. Oral arguments heard of the

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Supreme Court yesterday about birthright citizenship Trump's executive order to

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get rid of it. But the real case is actually

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about the nationwide injunctions that district court judges have been doing.

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And I went through three of the arguments against nationwide injunctions.

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There are three arguments in favor of these nationwide injunctions.

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I went over one of them, which is that you

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end up with all sorts of different conflicting rulings from

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different district judges around the country. But that's the way

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it's supposed to have been done, and then it percolates

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up through the appellate process, and then if they can't reconcile,

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then it goes all the way to the US Supreme Court.

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That's one argument, well, one against and also but in favor,

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which is to say, a nationwide injunction prevents all of

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these different content inflicting rulings. Number Two, it's wasteful to

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demand that every individual, sometimes millions of people affected by

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the same decision to forcing them all to file duplicative lawsuits. Okay,

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so that's a lot of extra time, effort, lawyer fees, right,

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everything else. And the third argument in favor of nationwide injunctions.

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Congress has often authorized judicial relief against the executive in

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terms that assume a broad power to enjoin unlawful action.

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So the Administrative Procedure Act, which is the vehicle for

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a lot of these lawsuits, the APA tells courts quote

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to hold unlawful and set aside agency action that fails

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to meet its standards, and then it authorizes actions for

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declaratory judgments or writs of prohibitory or mandatory injunction blah

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blah blah. Okay. So, in the long run, the legality

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of executive branch actions can be settled by the Supreme

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Court here. But as Justice Brett Kavanaugh noted, citing Biden

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era rules such as the vaccine mandate and the eviction

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moratorium that took a year or more to reach the court,

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it can matter quite a lot whether or not an

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executive rule is in effect when the cases play out

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in court. Right when when you're trying to get something

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that the executive branch is done, like vaccine mandates, when

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you're trying to stop that from happening, the longer it

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takes to build the class action to work through the courts,

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the longer that mandate remains in place. Right, So a

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nationwide injunction that can stop that vaccine mandate immediately, you

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would think that would be of benefit. Or the eviction moratorium.

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The injury to individual rights is obvious enough when the

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president or the executive agencies are acting illegally for years

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until the court weighs in. Right, Joe Biden did this

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openly in the eviction moratorium case. But the injury to

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the public interest when the executive cannot act on the

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nation's behalf for half of his elected term, that's also significant.

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Trump's trying to do stuff, and by filing all these injunctions,

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they're stopping him from doing this stuff. See like, I'm

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not so sure that the law is going to be

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able to remedy what is a political act. This is right,

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and this is political warfare. They do not want him

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to succeed in anything. So if they can just get

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him to stay in court, tie him up, he won't

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be able to get anything done and then he's out

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of office. Delaying is the strategy, and this is particularly

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significant in areas like national security, public safety, public health.

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So Dan McLaughlin goes on to say that there's no

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reason in this case to wait for the legal questions

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to percolate through the lower courts, because really only the

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Supreme Court to decide can decide whether or not to

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overturn the birthright citizenship precedent case. The entire question at

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issue can be decided on the basis of whether the

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Supreme Court back then correctly interpreted the constitutional text. But

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that's bad news for the administration's position in making this

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its test case, because it loses some of the most

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forceful concerns that arise in other cases about the poor

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quality of justice that can be delivered when individual district

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judges turn themselves into instant arbiters of national executive policy.

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He goes on to conclude the sleeping elephant in the

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room Congress, many of the worst features of the nationwide

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injunction litigation could be fixed by the two parties in

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Congress getting together to find common ground and write a

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statute that reforms forum shopping, provides three judged district courts

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and expedited appeals for cases that seek nationwide relief, prevent

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00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,480
successive suits for the same relief so they can't keep

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00:27:18,519 --> 00:27:21,920
going back for more bites at the apple offer statutory

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standards for injunctions and otherwise does the sort of lawmaking

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00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,720
that is supposed to come from the lawmaking branch. Congress

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00:27:29,799 --> 00:27:36,319
can fix this rather than continuing to suffer, as he

387
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,079
calls it, from a war of attrition between an imperial

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executive and an imperial judiciary. All right, if you're listening

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00:27:44,759 --> 00:27:46,279
to this show, you know I try to keep up

390
00:27:46,319 --> 00:27:48,079
with all sorts of current events, and I know you

391
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:50,599
do too, And you've probably heard me say get your

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00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,519
news from multiple sources. Why Well, because it's how you

393
00:27:54,599 --> 00:27:57,559
detect media bias, which is why I've been so impressed

394
00:27:57,559 --> 00:28:01,319
with ground News. It's an app, and it's a website

395
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,759
and it combines news from around the world in one

396
00:28:03,839 --> 00:28:07,319
place so you can compare coverage and verify information. You

397
00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:10,880
can check it out at check dot ground, dot news

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00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,480
slash Pete. I put the link in the podcast description too.

399
00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:17,160
I started using ground News a few months ago and

400
00:28:17,319 --> 00:28:19,920
more recently chose to work with them as an affiliate

401
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,240
because it lets me see clearly how stories get covered

402
00:28:23,319 --> 00:28:26,240
and by whom. The blind spot feature shows you which

403
00:28:26,279 --> 00:28:29,119
stories get ignored by the left and the right. See

404
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,240
for yourself. Check dot ground, dot news slash Pete. Subscribe

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00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,119
through that link and you'll get fifteen percent off any subscription.

406
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,160
I use the Vantage plan to get unlimited access to

407
00:28:40,279 --> 00:28:43,720
every feature your subscription then not only helps my podcast,

408
00:28:43,759 --> 00:28:46,079
but it also supports ground News as they make the

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00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,319
media landscape more transparent, as we do in the final

410
00:28:50,319 --> 00:28:53,160
segment here on the program, Every Friday we check with

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00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,799
Brett Winnable afternoons three to still seven, but soon to

412
00:28:56,799 --> 00:28:59,640
be just three to six. That's right, Bred Rennable on WBT.

413
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:00,759
How are you, sir?

414
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 4: I'm doing great that we are going to be part

415
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,480
of a shrink flation at that point, we're going to

416
00:29:05,559 --> 00:29:07,079
get exactly the same amount.

417
00:29:06,839 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 2: Of content, but it's going to be in three hours, not.

418
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,079
Speaker 1: For that's amazing shrink flation. I thought we got rid

419
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,000
of that when Trump won.

420
00:29:15,079 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: It's still kind of out there. Yeah yeah, I mean,

421
00:29:17,079 --> 00:29:17,680
if you liked.

422
00:29:17,599 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: It, never goes back. They're never going to make the

423
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,000
packages of Cheeto's backs.

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00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,279
Speaker 4: And Cheetos and the whole thing. And look at if

425
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:28,200
you've ever got a found a leftover bag of of

426
00:29:28,279 --> 00:29:30,000
anything now, I mean you just you look at that

427
00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:31,440
and you go, oh.

428
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 1: Goose were the days man? Yeah?

429
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, somoas So I got a clip to play for you, please,

430
00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:38,319
I need it.

431
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: What You probably already have seen this because you do

432
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,319
as much show prep as anybody I know. So here

433
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:49,680
we go. This is Scott Jennings on CNN and he's

434
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,319
speaking on a panel and you're going to hear a

435
00:29:52,519 --> 00:29:54,640
female voice here, and he's going to respond to the

436
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,039
female voice. She's a Democrat strategist person.

437
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 2: Oh awesome, it's mad.

438
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,079
Speaker 5: Why the basis mad at some of the leaders in Washington,

439
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:06,119
It's not because they're not left enough. It's because, you know,

440
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,200
Chuck Schumer came out with no strategy, no forewarning and

441
00:30:09,279 --> 00:30:11,920
just said we're going to fold on the cr all right.

442
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,759
Speaker 1: So this is Liz Smith, the former comms advisor to

443
00:30:14,839 --> 00:30:18,839
Pete Booty Gig. Okay, Liz Smith. So it's not because

444
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:20,000
they didn't go left enough.

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00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 5: I mean, I think you could have done a better

446
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,799
job of explaining what the strategy was and what we're

447
00:30:24,839 --> 00:30:26,720
going to do, but there wasn't anything like that. I

448
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:29,519
think Democrats are learning and I'm going to agree with

449
00:30:29,599 --> 00:30:32,599
you that Democrats cannot only be the party of resistance.

450
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,559
We cannot like we resisted so hard between twenty seventeen

451
00:30:36,599 --> 00:30:39,240
and twenty twenty four, we impeached the guy, like, we've

452
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,799
prosecuted him, convicted him with thirty four felony accounts, and

453
00:30:43,839 --> 00:30:46,000
guess what, he still got elected. So I don't know

454
00:30:46,039 --> 00:30:47,200
how much harder we can resist?

455
00:30:47,279 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: Right now?

456
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 4: Are you admitting that the case against Trump in New

457
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,119
York was part of the organized Democratic Party resistance?

458
00:30:52,119 --> 00:30:55,039
Speaker 5: It was a Democratic prosecutor and at the time, okay,

459
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,640
at the time said I thought it was unwise. I

460
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,960
went on Fox News and said, he said.

461
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 2: That's at the time.

462
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:03,079
Speaker 1: Just to be clear, this wasn't.

463
00:31:03,279 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 4: Just to be clear, everybody who now touts the thirty

464
00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:06,960
four felonies, take it from Liz.

465
00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:08,039
Speaker 1: This was not a real case.

466
00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:11,319
Speaker 4: This was a plot to up end the presidential campaign.

467
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:12,920
Speaker 5: Which I just think it was a boneheaded move by

468
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,039
Alvin Bragg. But it's not his first or last one.

469
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,279
Speaker 4: This is why we invited. Wow, I mean, that's Look,

470
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,960
it's great, that's a great reveal. Now it can be

471
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,359
told how it can be told. And you know what's

472
00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:30,480
they failed at resisting? Right Like, how do you fail

473
00:31:30,599 --> 00:31:34,480
at resisting? Like they even failed the first time around

474
00:31:34,519 --> 00:31:36,839
with the resisting, the resisting that never really worked.

475
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 1: I think I know the answer. What it has to

476
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,200
do with the dyings.

477
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,599
Speaker 4: You mean, like the dians, like back in the nuclear

478
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,119
protests and all that, like in the eighties.

479
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,559
Speaker 1: Or more recently in like the old the grocery stores

480
00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:51,240
where they just like lay down in the middle of

481
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:54,519
the grocery store aisles. It's like the laziest form. It's

482
00:31:54,599 --> 00:31:55,960
literally the least you can do.

483
00:31:56,079 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 4: It is true to protest, like we remember, literally we remember,

484
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,640
we remember those people that were trying to block the

485
00:32:02,759 --> 00:32:06,839
road and the tribal the tribal police right came in

486
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,160
and showed no mercy, like they didn't care about just

487
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,400
ripping your arms apart, right and getting thrown in a

488
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:15,559
hot paddy wagon.

489
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,839
Speaker 3: Right, can you say paddy wagon patty. I don't know

490
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:21,640
if that makes it better, but it used to be

491
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,680
the d d Why yeah, but the tea. Now you

492
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,079
get hamburgers, you get that peppermint patty.

493
00:32:26,119 --> 00:32:27,119
Speaker 1: Okay, it's a food.

494
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,119
Speaker 2: But that thing they failed it resistant.

495
00:32:29,759 --> 00:32:31,799
Speaker 1: Right, because I think they got so trained with the

496
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,000
laziness of the protesting that they because it's like you

497
00:32:36,039 --> 00:32:37,799
and I have talked about this too. This is theater

498
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,519
kid LARPing, Oh awful. So much of all the protesting stuff.

499
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:44,279
It's like, I'm so done with it. Like you guys

500
00:32:44,279 --> 00:32:47,119
aren't even good at it. It's not entertaining anymore. You're

501
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,440
just screaming. You have no coherent message, and you just

502
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,640
do these dyings. You're laying down on the ground. It's

503
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,240
like you're just getting lazier and lazier and lazier. And

504
00:32:55,319 --> 00:32:58,400
so when you actually were trying to quote resist, yeah

505
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,400
it you you didn't have any mojo, no not, you

506
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,839
got flabby nothing resistance to pressure build strength.

507
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 2: Right.

508
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,759
Speaker 4: Look, Wayne Static of Static Acts famously sang a song

509
00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:16,480
and it was he's a loser, okay, And that's this

510
00:33:16,599 --> 00:33:18,759
is a law, this is a this is the let's

511
00:33:18,759 --> 00:33:22,559
be honest here, this is their lost cause. Yeah, that

512
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,839
they are the lost cause, right, because they were not

513
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,359
able to stop I mean Hitler.

514
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,079
Speaker 1: They couldn't stop Orange Hitler.

515
00:33:31,079 --> 00:33:33,079
Speaker 2: That's right, Orange Hitler. I mean you're right.

516
00:33:33,279 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: And think about think about all of the cards that

517
00:33:35,519 --> 00:33:38,640
they hold yes and held yes and and really at

518
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,680
the pinnacle of their power, which then, of course, as

519
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,279
they're trying to squeeze it harder and harder to maintain it,

520
00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:46,039
it just slips through their fingers. You know it's they

521
00:33:46,079 --> 00:33:51,319
have the institutions, yep, the intelligence community, the alphabet agencies,

522
00:33:51,319 --> 00:33:54,200
you got social media, you got legacy media. Like you

523
00:33:54,279 --> 00:33:58,920
have all of this institutional power, right, and you still suck.

524
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:02,319
Speaker 4: I'll bet you not, not really bet you, but I

525
00:34:02,319 --> 00:34:05,880
would be willing to go this far. We could open

526
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:11,480
air a plan for a protest in some park someplace

527
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:19,079
with absurd causes whatever. Actuality no, but like we want

528
00:34:19,079 --> 00:34:23,800
to ban band aids because it's choking you know, fish

529
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:24,519
something like.

530
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,039
Speaker 1: That, lastic in the plastic right, all.

531
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 4: That sort of and we could do that all live

532
00:34:29,559 --> 00:34:33,679
on on the radio, and people would show up to protest,

533
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,000
because people just like to be part of a thing.

534
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're rugged individualists.

535
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:41,199
Speaker 1: Well and also like, I mean, you got a lot

536
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:44,159
of dudes and they're going there for the for the ladies.

537
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,039
Are they really the I mean I think some of

538
00:34:46,079 --> 00:34:46,760
them do. Yeah.

539
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 2: I think I thought it was I thought we deconstructed gender.

540
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 1: Well, I think they. I think what has happened though,

541
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,280
is a lot of guys and look, David Hogg talked

542
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,760
about this, yeah, right with Bill Maher and then he

543
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,840
got fired from the DNC. Unbelievable, And he said like

544
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,679
they're going to hang out with the ladies trying to

545
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,199
get lucky. He didn't say that, but that's what he said. Like,

546
00:35:07,519 --> 00:35:10,119
and everybody's all outraged about it, but like that is

547
00:35:10,159 --> 00:35:12,559
a part of it. When you're young and there's this

548
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,840
energy around a movement and you see a couple of

549
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,960
girls in your class at college, they're like, yeah, we're

550
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,760
gonna go you know, some paint on some furs or something.

551
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,639
You're like, okay, I'll join you.

552
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 2: Look what was what was Woodstock?

553
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the problem for now is that when they

554
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,719
show up to these events, they're like, oh, you're like

555
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,679
a white cis dude, get the hell out of here.

556
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,519
Speaker 4: But they also don't know how to have a conversation.

557
00:35:33,679 --> 00:35:37,199
Now that's like, like, honestly, I would Sackri all day

558
00:35:37,199 --> 00:35:40,760
every day looks for intellect because intellect is going to

559
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,679
go way further for you in an interesting conversation.

560
00:35:44,559 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 1: Well yeah, because if it's just looks, then you're just

561
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:48,719
like staring at the person I'm saying.

562
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 2: Right, people are like, oh, yeah, just go go. You

563
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,000
don't know anything about that person, what do you what

564
00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:54,440
are you doing?

565
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:57,159
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, it's true. So yeah, I just think it's

566
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,599
nice that finally, this is great. The truth can be told,

567
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:01,800
They can be told that this was all part of

568
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,119
the resistance, and we you and I have known this.

569
00:36:05,159 --> 00:36:08,159
It's sort of like recognizing, you know, Joe Biden's mental decline.

570
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,960
What did you hear that? Jake Tapper has a PR

571
00:36:11,039 --> 00:36:14,559
crisis firm? Now he does? He does his book launch

572
00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:16,199
is going so well, Oh.

573
00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: My gosh, Oh my gosh.

574
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: No, he had to get yeah, he had to get

575
00:36:21,519 --> 00:36:25,360
a crisis firm to help whip the marketing. And the

576
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:30,159
response that that's a really good question. Probably well, I

577
00:36:30,159 --> 00:36:31,679
don't know. I was gonna say no, but now I'm

578
00:36:31,679 --> 00:36:36,239
not so sure. They might be all right. That'll do

579
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,840
it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening.

580
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,079
I could not do the show without your support and

581
00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:43,840
the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast,

582
00:36:44,199 --> 00:36:46,239
so if you'd like, please support them too and tell

583
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,039
them you heard it here. You can also become a

584
00:36:48,039 --> 00:36:52,719
patron at my Patreon page or go to thepetecleanershow dot com. Again,

585
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,519
thank you so much for listening, and don't break anything

586
00:36:55,519 --> 00:37:03,320
while I'm gone.