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Speaker 1: Ask not what your country can do for you, ask

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what you can do for your country.

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Speaker 2: Mister gorbachaw tear down this wall.

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Speaker 1: It's the Ricorche podcast with Charles C. W. Cook and

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Stephen Hayward. I'm James Lylyx. Today we talked to Nolah

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Rothman eventually about Syria, but before that all sorts of stuff.

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Speaker 3: So let's saberselfs a podcast and from very high sources,

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very qualified sources, very responsible sources.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you the real deal.

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Speaker 3: Iran launched a mother ship probably about a month ago

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that contains these drones.

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Speaker 4: Ladies and gentlemen. As you know, I'm in the final

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weeks of my presidency.

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Speaker 5: You don't have to clap for that. You can if

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you want.

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Speaker 1: Welcome everybody eats the Ricchet podcast number what is it?

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Speaker 5: It is seven hundred and twenty.

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Speaker 1: Wow. I'm James Lylyx in bone achingly called Minneapolis, but

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the Vikes are eleven and two and I'm joined by

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Charles W. Cook in Florida where the jaguars are in

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the Little Trine but I assume it's warm. And Stephen Heyward,

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who is where exactly?

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Speaker 2: I'm in the LA area today?

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Speaker 3: I'm finally back from running around over in Europe for

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an earlier month.

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Speaker 2: But I'm back on the.

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Speaker 5: Left coast like a colossus.

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Speaker 1: We straddle the nation before we get to the interesting

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things of the day. Something else that is an interesting

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thing of the day. I understand, Charlie, that you survived

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a restaurant explosion.

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Speaker 6: This is so bizarre that I still can't believe that

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it happened, and I especially can't believe normal was hurt badly.

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Yesterday I went for lunch with a friend. We sat

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at the bar, as we often do. The bar is

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relatively close to the kitchen, and about eight to ten

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minutes into having sat down, we order glass of wine

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and there is an almighty explosion, and the rush of

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air that comes out of the kitchen, along with a

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noise I've never heard before, pushes us partially off our seats.

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Speaker 4: It was that straw.

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Speaker 6: And we quickly looked around and realized we were fine,

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no pain, all our limbs still on. And we look

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over at the kitchen and it's evident that the oven

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in the restaurant's kitchen has.

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Speaker 4: Exploded and the doors have flown off.

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Speaker 6: And I thought, all right, I'm fine, but someone's dead

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in the kitchen.

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Speaker 4: That was my next fear.

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Speaker 6: Was not for myself, because by this point it was

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clear that I was fine, and my friend was fine,

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and everyone else around us was fine. But I thought

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someone must be dead in the kitchen because it was

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an enormous explosion that's caused damage to the restaurant, and

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the doors have flown off, and we were nearly knocked

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up our seats and so on.

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Speaker 4: Well, no one was, as it happened.

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Speaker 6: The chef who had been operating the oven had walked

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out of the kitchen on the other side just before

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this happened, so he was fine. The others in the

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kitchen were too far away from the oven to have

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been hit by anything. But it was just the most

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bizarre thing that has happened to me in a long time,

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and it really does make you realize.

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Speaker 4: How random life can be.

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Speaker 6: I mean, we didn't go to that restaurant because it's

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some sort of tradition. We don't go there every week.

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I just said, you want to have lunch, he said,

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When I said twelve, he said sure. I said, you know,

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I won't mention it. I don't want to get them

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in the bad books. But I said, what about there,

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and he said, sure, why not? I mean, I could

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have picked any other restaurant off the top of my head.

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There's a bunch of them, and it would just happened

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to be that when it just happened to me after

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we sat down, had things been slightly different, I suppose

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I could be telling this story now from the hospital.

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Speaker 4: But really, apparently what had.

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Speaker 6: Happened was that the oven was new, it had only

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just been installed, and when it had been installed, something

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evidently had gone wrong in the installation process. Someone had

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screwed up, and they'd been a build up of gas,

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which then.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna blame it on your soufle you ordered try.

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Speaker 6: But my goodness me, what a bizarre experience. I still

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can't believe it happened. I woke up this morning, I thought, did.

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Speaker 4: I dream that? But no, I didn't.

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Speaker 5: I hope they comped your desserts. At least they didn't.

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Speaker 6: You know, that's a weird thing, is I was waiting

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for them to say, obviously, this glass of wine is

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on us, because you know we killed you right.

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Speaker 5: Well, we're glad you survived.

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Speaker 1: And gas explosions do not usually end well, and this

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one seems to have done so so good. We can

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take that one off. You can look over your shoulder

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for a little while, wondering if actually the gods are

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throwing bolts down at you and missing. But but but

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we hope not.

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Speaker 6: I tell you a twenty second story just before you start.

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Of course, absolutely killed me recently. So I was reading

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this book about the Second World War, and when bombs

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started falling on London, it was clear that they had

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come from airplanes, and so the public was aware of

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what was going on. But when the Germans started developing

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their rockets, you couldn't see or hear them until the

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last minute, and the British found out what was happening,

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but they didn't want the Germans to know that they

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knew what was happening, and so they weren't allowed to

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acknowledge or report on it. And so the British government's

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line when the V ones and V two started hitting

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London was their gas maines. It's a gas explosion. And

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so the British public was much smarter than this. Started

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Riley describing the explosions to each other as flying gas maines.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's tremendous. Ah, Yes, that indomitable British spirit, the

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stiff upper lip in the face of et cetera. Well,

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that's grand. Let us cast ourize about the country. We

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will be talking about the killer of the Bryant of

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the United Healthcare CEO a little bit later, and things

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in New York. Penny wise. One of the things that

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caught my eye this morning was Jim Garritty at National

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Review gave a tweet thread which was also a piece

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that he wrote for n R, detailing the number of

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the exact crimes of the people who have been pardoned

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by the administration. Now, we always expect that, you know,

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when you look at these and like, oh, I already

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pardon that guy? Whoa, Yeah, that wouldn't that doesn't sound fair,

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We kind of shrug and we're accustomed to it. But

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it does seem like a remarkable list of financial fraunsters.

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And for an administration and a party that is supposedly

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on behalf of the little people against those elites who

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extract money from the system becauld satisfy their raw capitalistic urges,

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it's quite quite the rundown. Stephen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think what's going on here, and

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I think we'll want to scrutinize the list closely see

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if Jim Biden and other members of the family or

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snuck in under a pseudonym or something, right, I mean,

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it doesn't seem that maybe it's preparing the ground for

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those self serving pardons that he wants to give. But

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it also makes my mind run back to those flurry

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of pardons that Bill Clinton gave on his last day

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in office, which we remember Mark Rich, you know, had

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what he debated, one hundred million dollars in taxes or something,

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and lots and lots of other people, including as I recall,

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one person who had been jailed whose crime I don't

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know why it's a federal crime was rolling back automobile odometers.

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How did that guy qualify for a pardon? Well, I

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think the psychological explanation then was this was Clinton stabbing

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back at the prosecutorial mindset that led to Ken's starr

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and this was just him lashing out and latching back

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and wanting to poke an eye in the law enforcement.

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So here's Biden who's looking to top Clinton's perfidy and

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abuse of the pardon power. I mean, the one that

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jumps out of me is the lady in Illinois who

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embezzled fifty three million dollars from the city of Dixon.

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Not a major I don't know if it's a major

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city or not in Illinois. It's not Chicago. But that's

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a lot of money. And this is a fairly recent conviction,

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I think, And he's pardoned this person, and I, you know,

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I bat one to me, is where what's the case

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for leniency there?

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Speaker 5: I can't.

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Speaker 3: I have a hard time making one out except that

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this is Biden again trying to like emulate Bill Clinton.

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And maybe it's part of Biden's psychology of still being

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mad that he was pushed out of the the re election.

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Speaker 5: Campaign that assumes that he's behind these things at all.

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Speaker 1: Charles, do you think, so.

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Speaker 4: Did she give the money to the Democrats?

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Speaker 5: I did not, good question.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: And Charles, you believe that actually the president was responsible

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for these himselves, drawing up the name after careful consultation

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and deep thought as he walked around the office with

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his hands clasped behind his bed, weighing this gate back,

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weighing the scales of justice, and so.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think you mean ran around the office during

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one on push ups and play.

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Speaker 1: You're right, you're right, we forget that he had that

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remarkable spirit and so yeah, no, probably a Stafford. But again,

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you just wonder exactly what's going on behind. Three of them,

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from what I understand, were Chinese spies whose arrangement had

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been whose swap had been worked out before. Now the

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whole spying thing does bring to mind something else that's

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going on in New Jersey, where the government is telling

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us now that they appear to be lawful manned aircraft

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to these drawings, but we really can't tell you much

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more about that, my favorite being, of course, that they're

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all coming from an Iranian ship offshore or disappearing into

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a submerged Iranian base or some nonsense like that, or

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that they're from other planets, or that they are a

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manifestation of American technology that is light years beyond what

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we can imagine and manifest itself as four D plasma bile.

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I don't know what to think. I don't know what

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to think. So let me ask you, guys, what do

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you think is going on?

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Speaker 2: I have no idea.

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Speaker 3: Pardon me, wants to think if you're going to do

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tinfoil had things, it's the latest products of area fifty one,

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or it turned out that that famous Orson Wells broadcast

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from nineteen thirty eight was a documentary.

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Speaker 2: It was just ahead of its time. They were now

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getting the martial invasion.

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Speaker 5: I don't know. I think we.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you've probably seen some pictures and accounts of this.

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You know it's sports stadiums now security is equipped with

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these Essentially, I'm going to say there's something like, you know,

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electromagnetic pulse guns or something to shoot down or capture

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drones and bring them to the ground, because you don't

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want drones flying around a sports stadium when you don't

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know what they are. And so I don't understand why

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somebody isn't bringing down these drones in New Jersey, which

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makes me think that maybe it's our guys testing these

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drones out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if we let it out that those things were

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full of copper, there would be guys, there would be

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tweakers out there bringing those things down in a halo

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of ar fifteen fire. Charles, what do you think is

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going on?

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Speaker 6: I've been a little skeptical overall because years upon years

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of supposed UFO sightings have brought us only very grainy photographs.

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But I just saw that. The governor, former governor of Maryland,

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Larry Hogan, tweeted out that he's seen these things and

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he's alarmed by it and he's angry with the federal government. Now,

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Larry Hogan is on the opposite end of the spectrum

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of a conspiracy theorist of somebody who is excitable. He

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is probably somewhat of a skeptic like myself. I mean,

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I just want to be clear. I'm not a Larry

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Hogan Conservative, but that's my point is that he is

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not the sort of person you would expect to come

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out and say I saw it, and yet he just did.

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So there's clearly something going on. I've thought up until

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now that maybe these were just refracted light or planes,

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because the videos are all sped up.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, James, it's beginning to make.

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Speaker 5: One weather balloons.

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Speaker 1: Well, as I said to my wife the other day

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as I was sculpting Devil's Tower out of mashed potatoes,

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it does not.

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Speaker 5: I mean, the least likely.

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Speaker 1: Thing is that this is the beginning of some sort

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of revelatory episode and that we have been we have

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been groomed and massaged for the last two years with

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stories of UAPs and tic TACs and verified photographs from

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navy flyers showing these things traveling at absurd velocity and

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doing things that physics ought not to let them do.

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There it's been the dribs and the drabs and the

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drabs and the dribs and the drip, drip drip of

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all this stuff, which says with the government practically saying, yeah,

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the real we don't know what they are, but they're

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not ours, not a foreign power to know if they're

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from Dunnald, you know, we're stomped, frankly, and then you

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will have somebody come back and walk that back, and

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then you will have.

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Speaker 5: The usual whistleblowers.

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Speaker 1: Believe me, if you're if you spend any time in

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the subreddits that are devoted to these things, you will

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find that the the the chattering ecosystem of people who

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who swear that they've been on the inside and they

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know what's going on and have been releasing all this information.

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Speaker 5: Is extraordinary, and.

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Speaker 1: Within this sphere exists nonsense upon nonsense that actually we're

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finally seeing the manifestation of the reptilian race that lives

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beneath the earth, that is coming up to your work

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it's a while to the people who are just no,

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we have the faintest idea, to the Tucker Carlson types

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who are saying, actually, actually they're demons.

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Speaker 5: But we have had so much rapid change.

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Speaker 1: In this in the last two or three years that

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it would seem that we're a little bit more psychologically

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ready to say, yeah, they are UFOs, they're from another planet. Yeah,

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non human intelligence. But that I guess that's all we know.

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Guess we're not alone. Let's move along. What's on what's

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on Netflix?

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Speaker 3: Oh but look, you know, you know what happened James,

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is that the first time the government comes out and

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says that the subreddits or another group of them will

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come out and say, ah, this is just a distraction

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by the government so they can really unfold what they're really.

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Speaker 2: Going to do, which is the invasion of Siria or something.

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I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's all a distraction, but it's weird. I mean,

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it's like we're finally being told that yes, it's real,

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there are aliens, but it's it somehow has the public

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profile of an Apple television show. I mean in that

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it's it's out, it's out there, but it's not. It's

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not top of the news. So I mean in Close

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Encounters of the Third Kind, which is a wonderful movie

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back in the and I think kicked off the whole.

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You don't want they're on our side. They're great, right,

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they got they smile, they bring our lost airman back.

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Speaker 4: You know, they're they're.

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Speaker 5: Really interesting dudes, and musical too. We can jam with them.

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It led a whole sort of.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're going to get along. It's gonna be nice,

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it's going to be good. And I think that this

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sort of doesn't feel like that at all.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's more aliens for Trump to deport.

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Speaker 6: I was actually going to say something else about Trump,

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which is, if you were writing American history, the aliens

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would have course shot while Donald Trump was president. That

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would be inevitable, right, There's no other president that you

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would want to be in office other than Donald Trump.

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Speaker 4: If the aliens are coming down.

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Speaker 1: Right, well, I want the little Grays who were about

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three and a half feet tall, to be standing there

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while it gives them that big downward mechron handshake, you know,

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that a big thrusting.

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Speaker 6: We were to find out whether Ronald Reagan was right

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when he said in the eighties. If Aliens came down,

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we would soon discover that we had no differences anymore

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in all of our politics. Was a contrivance, which, while

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I love Reagan, I've always thought was nonsense. But we

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would get to find out whether that was true or not.

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Speaker 5: Well, it depends.

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Speaker 1: You remember Bill Pullman at the end of Independence Day

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when he declared it to be a global universal human holiday.

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Speaker 2: That we would have.

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Speaker 6: Won reelection though, and he would have done so easily

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because he's obviously a Republican because he hates the environment.

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Speaker 4: Right, he would not only have been.

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Speaker 6: The guy who destroyed the Aliens, but most of the

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West and East coasts were destroyed.

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Speaker 4: His electoral College victory could have been perfect.

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Speaker 5: Well, he did nuke Texas. I think he did.

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Speaker 6: James Houston right, so, which I endorse. FYI is a

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hatred of the Texans and the Astros.

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Speaker 4: Look, I'm just saying that if we knewked, if we knuked.

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Speaker 6: Houston, the Houston Astros and the Houston Texans would no

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longer exist, which would mean that the Yankees would probably

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have a couple more World Series. This happened back in

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ninety six and the Jacksonville Jaguars would have won the

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AFC South three or four more times.

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Speaker 4: So I'm just I'm just looking at the upside.

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Speaker 1: James, Well, that's good, you know. Speaking as a Vikings

335
00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,399
fan here, I find absolutely no need to drawn my

336
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,639
soros when I watch my team perform on Like some of.

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Speaker 4: You know, I deserve this because I But.

338
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,639
Speaker 1: If I and so I don't drown my sorrows, I

339
00:17:04,519 --> 00:17:06,920
may have a tiple to elevate them as we as

340
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,559
we slap high fives and to proclaim our victorious season

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00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:12,319
of wonder. But let me tell you something, though, I

342
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,119
got a Monday night coming up game.

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00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,599
Speaker 5: Next week, and be a little careful. You gotta be

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00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,000
careful with your party. It's like this. There's a sure

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00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:21,880
far away to wake up.

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00:17:21,799 --> 00:17:24,119
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And we think zebiotics are sponsoring this the Ricochet podcast. Well,

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we're going to talk to no one a second about

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00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,279
the shooting of the CEO. But I want to get

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you guys, see what your take on it is. I'm

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of the position that if somebody says murderer is bad butt,

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than everything that they say before the butt, the fulk

380
00:19:09,839 --> 00:19:12,759
crumb of the butt in their argument, should be disregarded

381
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the people who are saying or at least we're having

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a conversation about this. No, we should be having a

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conversation about people who kill people in streets and that's

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the only conversation we should be having. Or as some

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people are pointing out, well look the anesthesiologists, you know,

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they came to them right away. This is this is

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proof the direct action works.

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Speaker 4: No. No.

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Speaker 1: Most interesting thing that I heard somebody say was going

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back to a Slate Star Codex blog post a long

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time ago about how there used to be the Red

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tribe and the Blue tribe and now we have the

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rise of the Gray tribe. Which are these sort of

394
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,359
twenty something thirty something tech guys who are sort of

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quasi libertarian, ethical altruists into all kinds of sort of

396
00:19:55,079 --> 00:19:59,759
spiritualistical stuff, but not really post religion post and that

397
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this guy seems to fit that profile, which is one

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of the reasons that the online people, the two online people,

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the people from teapot or that part of Twitter, seems

400
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to have embraced him as their champion.

401
00:20:12,759 --> 00:20:13,039
Speaker 5: Yeah.

402
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Speaker 2: I don't know. I'd say two or three things about him.

403
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Speaker 3: One is I was fascinated and remain fascinated with the

404
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fact that he's another person who seems fascinated by the

405
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,799
unibomber and by some of these very radical ideas, some

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of which he learned at Penn. The dead giveaway is

407
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when he screamed out about how the American people are

408
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being fooled because what's happening doesn't live up to our

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lived experience. That's a college campus phrase, right, I suppose

410
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one other kind of experience right. On the other hand,

411
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but also it emerges that he's intellectually unstable, right, I mean,

412
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he apparently was a fan of Jordan Peterson for a while,

413
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also Tucker Carlson, but then swings over to the unibomber

414
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and now looks pretty leftist. I think it's also possible

415
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that he's schizophrenic, and maybe his back surgery and pain

416
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contributes to that. But you know, oftentimes, as they say

417
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in medicine, schizophrenia presents a young man in their mid twenties,

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and so he may just be simply nuts. And it

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took a political form, so I think we need to

420
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wait and see on all that. Maybe we'll never know

421
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who knows what defense he's going to give and so forth.

422
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The manifesto is actually pretty short and kind of a

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cliche as near as I can tell, because we don't

424
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have the whole thing, but it's apparently quite short. I

425
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think more important is the first thing you mentioned, James,

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which is the reaction of the left to run to

427
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his defense and make him a folk hero. And as

428
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you say, you know, violence is never justified, but then

429
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all the rest of what Elizabeth Warren and other people

430
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in the lefty media saying is but actually it's totally justified.

431
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Speaker 2: I mean, it totally negates what they said before. And

432
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this is not new.

433
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Speaker 3: This goes back to I think when the left began

434
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to lose its mind and mainstream liberals losing their mind

435
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in the sixties justifying the rioters.

436
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Speaker 2: Siding with criminals, as we know, and this continues to

437
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this day.

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Speaker 3: So this is just the latest and a long and

439
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I think you lamentable story of the left and America,

440
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who seems to have not learned very much from the

441
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election returns.

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Speaker 1: Well, you can't make an omelet without purging one hundred

443
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thousand chickens. Charles, where do you come down on this?

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Speaker 6: I think that if you in any way qualify your

445
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view of first degree murder by examining the politics of

446
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:25,920
the murderer, then you've essentially opted out of society. What

447
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is society, both at the social level and at the

448
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political level. It's an agreement that, in the absence of

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extreme circumstances such as the need for self defense, we

450
00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:40,839
will not kill each other over our disagreements, and that

451
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manifests in a bunch of ways. One of the most

452
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famous is religious toleration, because for years, decades, centuries in

453
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Europe people kill each other all the time over their religions.

454
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But it also manifests itself in day to day politics,

455
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quotidian politics, of which the nature of our health system

456
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is one. You just cannot decide that you are more

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informed or important than other people, and therefore you have

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the right to kill them. And if you read the

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00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,559
short manifesto that he put out, that's what he did.

460
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That's what that last couple of sentences imply. Now there

461
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is a caveat in there which makes him look like

462
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,440
an absolute crank, which he is a coward, where he says,

463
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,920
I don't actually know too much about this topic. I'm

464
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,799
not the right guy to make this argument. Well, look,

465
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there are many aspects to my conservatism, James, but one

466
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of them is that if I don't know too much

467
00:23:31,079 --> 00:23:33,559
about a topic and I think other people might be

468
00:23:33,559 --> 00:23:36,440
better off making the argument, I'm not going to shoot

469
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,640
someone over it. That's a pretty solid precept. Well, I

470
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,200
go to work with every single day, So you know,

471
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,960
he should have stopped there. He also should have extrapolated

472
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out from that and realized that even if he were

473
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,119
the world's greatest expert on the topic, no one came

474
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,559
near to him. He was universally acknowledged to be a

475
00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:58,480
genius on the topic. He still doesn't get more of

476
00:23:58,519 --> 00:24:00,599
a vote in whether or not a given person lives

477
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,759
or dies than anyone else, and I just find the

478
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,880
Elizabeth Warren AOC approach on this to be revolting and

479
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,720
to be a good example of why they should never

480
00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:11,519
ever be trusted with power. Last thing, quickly, if I

481
00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:14,960
were then, and I were a member of Congress in

482
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,079
AOC's case and in the case of Elizabeth Warren, a senator,

483
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,720
and I wanted the government to take over healthcare, I

484
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,480
would not be establishing the principle that if an institution

485
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,480
denies you care that you think you deserve, you can

486
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:30,000
kill them. Because in a single payer system, who do

487
00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:32,440
you think it's going to be making the rationing decisions.

488
00:24:32,519 --> 00:24:35,680
It's going to be AOC and Elizabeth Warren. It's nuts,

489
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,920
It's it's actually beyond even from a purely self interested,

490
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,920
totally amral perspective, it is beyond bizarre to me that

491
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,960
that's the idea they've decided to put into the bloodstream,

492
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:46,480
just as they want to get rid of the Brian

493
00:24:46,519 --> 00:24:48,519
Thompson's and say, hey, you know who's in charge of

494
00:24:48,599 --> 00:24:49,079
your health care?

495
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:50,319
Speaker 4: It's me, Elizabeth Warren.

496
00:24:50,519 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 1: I know. Well, that's because buttressing this seems to be

497
00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,559
this notion of what I call cornucopianism, where once the

498
00:24:57,599 --> 00:25:00,680
government takes it over thanks to modern my ary theory

499
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,200
and the printing press going burr and the rest of it.

500
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:05,759
There won't be any denial and there won't be any

501
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,000
rationing because everything will be provided because the government can

502
00:25:09,079 --> 00:25:11,720
provide all. The government has the means and the resources

503
00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:14,759
and the will to provide all to all, and there

504
00:25:14,759 --> 00:25:17,680
will be no bad outcomes. That it's people like the

505
00:25:17,799 --> 00:25:21,839
United Healthcare that stand in the way of cornucopianism and

506
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,279
its wonderful benefits. The second thing that I would say

507
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,880
is to build on what you've said and what.

508
00:25:27,839 --> 00:25:32,319
Speaker 5: I said before, is that it's very, very specific.

509
00:25:31,839 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 1: The kind of political murder that they like. If you

510
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,279
had a man whose second cousin's niece was killed by

511
00:25:37,319 --> 00:25:41,519
an illegal immigrant right in New Jersey, and the mayor

512
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:44,000
of that town in New Jersey had said, we are

513
00:25:44,039 --> 00:25:45,680
not going to cooperate with ice. We are a sanction

514
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,559
sanctuary town, and this guy decided to shoot the deputy

515
00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:54,599
mayor to avenge the death of his relative at the

516
00:25:54,599 --> 00:25:57,160
hands of an illegal immigrant, we would not be talking

517
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,519
about having the necessity of having a conversation about illegal immigration.

518
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,720
We would be talking about anything. But so when they

519
00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:05,799
selectively do it like this. You're right, Charlie. I mean,

520
00:26:05,839 --> 00:26:07,039
it's madness for them to.

521
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 5: Say, we're going to be in charge of your healthcare.

522
00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:11,839
Speaker 1: And by the way, it's perfectly fine to shoot people

523
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:13,559
who don't give you everything that you want.

524
00:26:14,039 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 5: But it's also.

525
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,079
Speaker 1: It's also a matter of selective judgment, and.

526
00:26:17,039 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 5: It's it's it's it's it's.

527
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,839
Speaker 1: Poisonous on every single possible level.

528
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:24,559
Speaker 5: I suppose it's.

529
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,039
Speaker 1: Also inevitable in this day and age for online media

530
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,400
to focus on somebody who happened to have a, you know,

531
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,759
a toothy smile and go with that. I mean, it's

532
00:26:34,799 --> 00:26:37,400
it's the start off, it's the you know, it's the

533
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,079
I mean the guy where he's smiling and looking and

534
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,920
looking up and I'm thinking somebody's going to do a

535
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,039
Chay picture that, somebody's gonna do a Chay T shirt.

536
00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:49,000
It's going to put him in black ink on a

537
00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:51,880
red shirt and he'll be the next emblem for revolution

538
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:53,279
and enlightenment.

539
00:26:53,599 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 2: They're already free Luigi T shirts you can find online.

540
00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 3: He's gonna supplant Mouma. I remember that guy locked up

541
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,640
from here in Philadelphia. There's one other thing that so

542
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,000
far only a couple of people have commented on Alissa

543
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,640
Finley at the Wall Street Journal is wait a second,

544
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,400
I thought Obamacare fixed all this, right. We were told

545
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,400
it was going to make health care more affordable. It's

546
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,480
in the name of the act. And it didn't. And

547
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,119
you know, I actually the other day went and looked

548
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,559
at because I'm a data geek, and I looked at

549
00:27:20,599 --> 00:27:25,559
the data series the longitudinal trends of healthcare costs, and

550
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:27,279
you can look at the slope of the line before

551
00:27:27,319 --> 00:27:30,240
Obamacare and after Obamacare, and it's continuous.

552
00:27:31,279 --> 00:27:32,559
Speaker 1: See, didn't we lose him?

553
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:33,519
Speaker 4: We did?

554
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: We did? Okay, Well, Stephen has apparently suffered what we

555
00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:41,480
hoped to be. Oh, I'm getting some news here. This

556
00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:45,200
is just coming in from California. There was a restaurant explosion.

557
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 4: And both by a drone.

558
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 5: That was by.

559
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: Drone, and that brings everything all together. So Stephen, we

560
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:52,240
hope he's okay.

561
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 2: I think I'm back? Am I back? You are?

562
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: We thought it was a restaurant explosion.

563
00:27:58,079 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 3: No, go on, Well, I don't know where it cut off.

564
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,200
All I was saying was Obamacare is supposed to solve

565
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,079
all this. It turns out if you look at the

566
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,680
slope of the cost of health care before and after Obamacare.

567
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,400
It made no difference whatsoever to healthcare inflation. And so

568
00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:15,680
we're still just as unhappy with our healthcare, maybe more

569
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,359
so because Obamacare made it worse and less comprehensible.

570
00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:19,319
Speaker 2: So there we go.

571
00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: You're saying, we haven't bent the curve.

572
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:21,920
Speaker 2: Nope.

573
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:23,839
Speaker 5: Hmm odd to that.

574
00:28:24,519 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, some people say no, no, no, Obamacare was

575
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,359
set up to fail. That was the ingenious thing about

576
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:31,920
It was set up to fail so that the government

577
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,079
would come in and take over that. And I don't

578
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:35,759
think that's the case. I don't think these guys are

579
00:28:35,759 --> 00:28:37,960
ever that Macavilion, are that smarter the rest of it.

580
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,640
I mean, do you do you do you think that

581
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,799
they are sitting there steepling their fingers and saying, wahaha,

582
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,839
we're going to cloud pivot this baby. I don't give

583
00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:48,920
them that much credit. I don't think they're that smart,

584
00:28:49,079 --> 00:28:51,960
that capable, or that force or have that much foresight.

585
00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 3: Well there is a subtext to that, though, James h

586
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,000
partly get your you can say, camel's nose in the tent.

587
00:28:59,160 --> 00:28:59,319
Speaker 2: Right.

588
00:28:59,359 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 3: At least if we exert some control, you can then

589
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,240
buy degrees regulate it more and more in.

590
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: The way we central planners want.

591
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,799
Speaker 3: The other thing, though that's still not widely perceived, is

592
00:29:07,839 --> 00:29:10,000
going all the way back to the failure of Hillary

593
00:29:10,039 --> 00:29:12,839
Care in nineteen ninety four. A part of the deal

594
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,079
was always going to be you, private health insurance people,

595
00:29:16,519 --> 00:29:18,640
we want you to do cost containment and we want

596
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,160
you to take the heat, and we'll kind of piggyback

597
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,200
along with Medicare and Medicaid and the.

598
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,559
Speaker 2: Government provided services.

599
00:29:24,759 --> 00:29:26,319
Speaker 3: Oh, by the way, we're going to mandate that all

600
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:30,559
health insurance must cover you know, everything from manicures to know,

601
00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:33,039
the counseling services, and that runs the cost up higher

602
00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:35,160
than it needs to be for basic health care needs.

603
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,319
So that are talking point. You hear sometimes as well, Gosh,

604
00:29:39,359 --> 00:29:42,319
Medicare only has a one percent overhead and you know

605
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,720
management cost, and private health insurance is like twenty five

606
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,599
thirty percent. Now, I think those numbers are bogused. I

607
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,960
think it's apples and oranges. But let's note that Medicare

608
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,680
and Medicaid now have it's estimated two hundred billion dollars

609
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,480
a year in fraud. So it's easy to have a

610
00:29:57,519 --> 00:30:01,480
one percent overhead if you're willing to tolerate that level

611
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,799
of fraud, and if private health insurance tolerted that, you

612
00:30:04,839 --> 00:30:08,319
can imagine what employer based healthcare would cost. It would

613
00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:10,680
be even worse than it is today. So it's a

614
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,559
gone awful mess, and all the interventions of the of

615
00:30:13,599 --> 00:30:15,920
the government just make it worse and worse.

616
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 6: The overhead figure is also really unfair because if you're

617
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:21,400
a private health insurer, you have to do all of

618
00:30:21,599 --> 00:30:24,759
the aspects of being a health insurer on your own.

619
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,960
You have to do collections, you have to do bureaucracy,

620
00:30:28,359 --> 00:30:31,640
you have to do the actuarial stuff. Whereas with the

621
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,240
federal systems, both Medicare and Medicaid, well, they get their

622
00:30:35,279 --> 00:30:38,920
collections done by the IRS, and they get their actuarial

623
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,759
tables done by various government institutions that exist to do that,

624
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,880
and they get all of their pr and their advertising

625
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:49,039
and their customer interactions done by other federal agencies.

626
00:30:48,519 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 4: And so you never see those added in.

627
00:30:50,279 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 6: What they do is they say, well, how much do

628
00:30:52,119 --> 00:30:57,559
you spend within the medicaid institution on overheads?

629
00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 4: I just had one more.

630
00:30:58,599 --> 00:31:00,759
Speaker 6: Quick thought, and I guess this is probably here at

631
00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:04,240
a moment on whether or not Obamacare was set up

632
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,279
to fail. I don't believe that it was set up

633
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:08,079
to fail in the sense that James asked about it,

634
00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:10,279
which is that it was supposed to be a catastrophe

635
00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:12,480
that led to single Pair. The public would clamor for

636
00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:14,759
single Pair once they saw that this didn't work. What

637
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,640
I do think is that most of the promises that

638
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,680
were made that it would bend the cost curve, that

639
00:31:20,759 --> 00:31:22,400
you would be able to keep your doctor and you'd

640
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,319
be able to keep your plan, were lies that they

641
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,400
knew were lies. And the reason that I think that

642
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,880
is that I watched the difference in the output of

643
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,240
Obamacare's apologists from before and after it was instituted. Before

644
00:31:35,279 --> 00:31:38,480
it was instituted, the asraclines of the world said it's

645
00:31:38,519 --> 00:31:40,319
going to do all of the things that but Barack

646
00:31:40,319 --> 00:31:41,119
Obama has said that.

647
00:31:41,119 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 4: It will do.

648
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 6: About one minute after it was completely implemented, in twenty fourteen,

649
00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:49,640
Ezra Client, Mattaglesias and other started writing these pieces that said, well,

650
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,839
of course, you can't bring millions of people into this

651
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,720
system without getting rid of health plans and getting rid

652
00:31:54,759 --> 00:31:56,200
of people's doctors and so on.

653
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 4: Of course, that's.

654
00:31:57,119 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 6: An obvious economic consequence. To me that what This was, therefore,

655
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,839
was a classic progressive moral play where they were just

656
00:32:06,519 --> 00:32:09,519
so offended by the idea that some people didn't have

657
00:32:09,599 --> 00:32:12,759
health insurance that they were willing to do anything to

658
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,839
change it. And so when they started getting pushed back

659
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,400
from economists and other people who knew what they're talking about, saying,

660
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:20,720
you know, this is going to cause X, Y and Z,

661
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,119
they realized that would be politically toxic, so they just.

662
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:23,960
Speaker 4: Went, no, it won't.

663
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 6: Then after it had been implemented, they said, yes, of

664
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,559
course it will do all those things, but we now

665
00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:31,839
have it. We don't, but we now have universal healthcare,

666
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,079
We now have more people who are insured, we now

667
00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:37,160
have a ban on blocking pre existing conditions, and so on,

668
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,480
because that's what they actually cared about all along. That's

669
00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:40,880
where I do think it was a game.

670
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think even the PolitiFact, people

671
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,400
who I normally don't hold in very high regard, rated

672
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,680
Obama's claim that if you like your doctor, you can

673
00:32:49,759 --> 00:32:52,039
keep your doctor as the lie of the year. I

674
00:32:52,079 --> 00:32:54,960
think in twenty thirteen or twenty fourteen that gets conveniently

675
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,440
forgotten and all this. You know, there's something I teach

676
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,240
in classic students, is there was a sociologist twenty or

677
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,839
thirty years ago, kind of forgotten, a guy named Peter Rossi,

678
00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:06,599
and he used to have what he called the Iron

679
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,000
law of evaluation, and it's very short. The Iron law

680
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:14,960
evaluation was the expected value of any net impact assessment

681
00:33:15,039 --> 00:33:19,960
of any large scale social program is zero. None of

682
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,519
the stuff ever works. And Obamacare is one of the

683
00:33:23,559 --> 00:33:25,839
premier examples of Peter Rossi's Iron law.

684
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:27,559
Speaker 2: Therey listeners.

685
00:33:27,559 --> 00:33:29,519
Speaker 3: You learn something from the academic world that you can

686
00:33:29,599 --> 00:33:30,720
use at a cocktail party.

687
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,359
Speaker 6: And one of the reasons that Obamaca has been less

688
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,839
deleterious and was anticipated is that its footprint has been

689
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:40,440
much smaller than was anticipated. I think I'm right in

690
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,160
saying that that's a combination of changes that Republicans managed

691
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,599
to make lost time they were in but also the

692
00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:49,160
way that it worked in practice market decisions that have

693
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,680
been made. It actually didn't have quite the effect that

694
00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:57,000
it was supposed to. And so progressives will say, aha,

695
00:33:57,079 --> 00:34:00,319
you see what we need is more government involved. But

696
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,039
I have a radical idea, Stude, and that is maybe

697
00:34:03,079 --> 00:34:04,880
we should go in the other direction for a change.

698
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 4: Maybe we should try that for ten years to.

699
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Well, you know, people like to pull out

700
00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:16,000
the medical bill, the hospital bill they got when they

701
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,599
were born. You know, I think my dad made my

702
00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:22,559
dad paid with a twenty you know right, change back.

703
00:34:23,039 --> 00:34:26,599
And I have absolutely no idea what it caused to

704
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,880
have my daughter brought into this world, because I do

705
00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:33,400
all of these insulating and intermediary organizations and payments and

706
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,719
the rest of it. But it was more than twenty

707
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,639
bucks because she had to go into a little clear

708
00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:39,920
plastic box, hooked up the machines that went bing.

709
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 5: So it was.

710
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 1: It was expensive and intensive and required a whole bunch

711
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,960
of technology that was not there when I came into

712
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,920
this world. People probably wish that it hadn't been, so

713
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,800
you never know. Well, having solved healthcare, let us move

714
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,280
along to the deteriorating quality of New York.

715
00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,559
Speaker 5: As we were discussing before.

716
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,559
Speaker 1: It's not just the shooting, of course of the guy

717
00:35:02,639 --> 00:35:05,559
on the street, which you know can happen frankly anywhere,

718
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:13,239
but it is the subway system, the nature of our

719
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:20,280
society when a humble street profile, a humble subway dancer can.

720
00:35:20,199 --> 00:35:22,039
Speaker 2: Be murdered in cold blood by a man.

721
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 1: Who was apparently stalking the trains looking for somebody to choke.

722
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,360
Is the way this sort of is being shown and

723
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,840
regarded in some quarters of Twitter by people who are

724
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,519
not marginal figures, no, but you know, by actual politicians

725
00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:40,000
who are decrying the ways in which society failed the

726
00:35:40,039 --> 00:35:42,679
man who died, and we hear this an awful lot,

727
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,440
that we've failed this it is on us that this

728
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:52,800
fellow was homeless and on powerful THHC derivatives and was

729
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,119
threatening people. That it was on us as if there

730
00:35:56,199 --> 00:35:59,159
was no attempt to ever intercede in his life, as

731
00:35:59,159 --> 00:36:03,239
if he hadn't been given shelter and treatment before and

732
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,400
had walked away from it. And it brings you have

733
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,920
to wonder at what point, I'm not saying, at what

734
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,039
point do we just choke the guy, because that's not

735
00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:14,320
what I'm saying, But at what point do we have

736
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:15,920
to sort of say done and dusted when it comes

737
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,079
to our abligation to people who have repeatedly refused the

738
00:36:19,159 --> 00:36:21,800
help that has given them. Is this indeed our fault

739
00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:23,960
or is the actual fault that we should be talking

740
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,079
about is the inability of the civic government in New

741
00:36:26,159 --> 00:36:30,199
York to maintain a safe environment in the subways in

742
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,280
which people are not worried about maniacs striding up and down,

743
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:38,599
waving their arms, making fist gestures, threatening to kill people

744
00:36:38,639 --> 00:36:40,639
and the rest of it. Does this happen on every

745
00:36:40,639 --> 00:36:43,840
subarate coin, No, no it doesn't. And as the people

746
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,000
on Twitter have been saying, look, just keep your head down,

747
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,920
be cautious. It's all part of living in a big city.

748
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,960
Well it ought not to be. You know.

749
00:36:58,039 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 6: This when pad with the murder of Brian Thompson is

750
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,039
a good window into the soul of a particular sort

751
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:12,800
of progressive They are extremely angry with Daniel Penny, they

752
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,239
call them a vigilante and a murderer, and they are

753
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,679
pleased with Luigi Mangiurni, they call him a hero.

754
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,320
Speaker 4: This is backwards. It would, of course.

755
00:37:25,079 --> 00:37:29,320
Speaker 6: Be better if we had the resources to ensure that

756
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,400
at no point ever in the United States was anyone

757
00:37:34,159 --> 00:37:37,760
not under the protection of a police officer. I don't

758
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,800
mean that quite literally. That would be creepy and totalitarian.

759
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,920
But if you could put a cop in every subway car,

760
00:37:45,199 --> 00:37:48,119
that would be great. But that's never going to happen.

761
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,639
Even if New York were run sensibly, which it's not,

762
00:37:51,559 --> 00:37:53,880
that's never going to happen. You are always going to

763
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,599
need some sort of volunteerism. Now that veering off into

764
00:37:56,639 --> 00:38:00,440
my favorite topic of the Second Amendment that is resumed

765
00:38:01,159 --> 00:38:03,519
by a great deal of our constitutional order, that there

766
00:38:03,559 --> 00:38:05,920
will be people who at some point will have to

767
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,800
step up. And Daniel Penny did that. He did that

768
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,400
when a guy was ranging around a subway car shouting

769
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,199
someone's going to die. I'm going to kill someone, and

770
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:20,280
he was put through the ringer for it. He was

771
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:25,320
charged with second degree manslaughter and with a lesser charge

772
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,000
that sounds as if it would have been a greater charge.

773
00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 4: And yeah, he got off.

774
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,599
Speaker 6: He was acquitted partly I think because the judge dismissed

775
00:38:33,639 --> 00:38:35,760
the first charge and thereby signaled to the jury that

776
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,360
the case had fallen apart. And yes, it's good that

777
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,280
he got off, and yes, jury systems work better than

778
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,199
almost any other institution in our country.

779
00:38:43,199 --> 00:38:45,119
Speaker 4: But that case should never have been brought.

780
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 6: And it is a sign, I think that we have

781
00:38:49,559 --> 00:38:51,679
forgotten who is good and who is bad, what is

782
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,960
deceptible and what is not, Where to blame and where

783
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,960
to praise that Daniel Penny found himself for a year

784
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,760
and a half facing the prosper aspect of spending a

785
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,599
lot of his life in jail, and Luigi Mangianni, who

786
00:39:06,599 --> 00:39:09,480
has been arrested, it's not any indication that he's going

787
00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:12,519
to be left by the authorities, but has been celebrated

788
00:39:12,559 --> 00:39:14,480
in the champion or at the very least justified by

789
00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:16,199
the same people who are angry about that.

790
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,079
Speaker 4: It is a.

791
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,800
Speaker 6: Horrible indictment of an ideology that has really jumped the shock.

792
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:22,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

793
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,440
Speaker 3: So my one observation, sorry, my one observation about it

794
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,159
is to compare this case with Bernard Getz back in

795
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,079
forty years ago, I think it was nineteen eighty four,

796
00:39:31,079 --> 00:39:33,960
and you remember he was the guy who shot he

797
00:39:34,039 --> 00:39:37,599
was carrying a gun shot for black assailants who were

798
00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:39,880
coming at him or threatening him with sharp and screwdrivers

799
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,480
and so forth. At that time, the Manhattan DA was

800
00:39:42,599 --> 00:39:46,320
Robert Morgenthal, the legendary name in law enforcement, who asked

801
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,199
a grand jury to indict Gets for manslaughter. The grand

802
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,239
jury refused to indict Gets from manslaughter, and he ended

803
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,480
up being charged only with a gun possession charge, and

804
00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:57,360
I think sort of something like six months in jail.

805
00:39:57,639 --> 00:40:00,760
Fast forward to now the decline and what let's to

806
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,360
paraphrase Henry Adams, the decline or the progression from Robert

807
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,360
Morgenthal to Alvin Bragg is enough to single handedly refute

808
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,760
the theory of evolution. And it was, you know, here

809
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,079
we are with a total clown and you know, progressive

810
00:40:14,199 --> 00:40:16,960
nut and a grand jury that did his bidding and

811
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,360
did indict Penny, and it's Travis Staves shows you the

812
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:22,599
decline of New York and law enforcement.

813
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 2: I think in a nutshell comparing those two cases.

814
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: They were comparing him to Bernie Getz as a matter

815
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,920
of fact, Penny as though he said, you don't look

816
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,280
so bad. Here's another and then choked on Tito Jackson

817
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,920
impersonator MANGIONI. By the way, if you look at the

818
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,079
word and you're thinking, manja, manja, you're eating, Yes, Mangoli

819
00:40:39,199 --> 00:40:41,960
means a glutton, a big eater. And I don't know

820
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:43,559
if you're a big eater or a small eater. What

821
00:40:43,679 --> 00:40:45,400
you do know is that no matter how much you eat,

822
00:40:45,519 --> 00:40:47,119
or how much you want to eat or don't want

823
00:40:47,119 --> 00:40:48,639
to eat or something, you got to pay attention to

824
00:40:48,679 --> 00:40:51,760
your metabolism. And that is why you need a lumen.

825
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,719
Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic Coach. It's a

826
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,960
device that measures your metabolism, how thin your brand.

827
00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 5: See.

828
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 1: It's got this app and it lets you know if

829
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,239
you're burning fats or carbs, and it gives you a

830
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,880
tailored guidance to improve your nutrition and your workouts and

831
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,119
your sleep and even your stress management. All I have

832
00:41:10,159 --> 00:41:12,119
to do is to breathe into your loomin the first

833
00:41:12,159 --> 00:41:14,039
thing in the morning, and you'll know what's going on

834
00:41:14,119 --> 00:41:15,880
with your metabolism. And so you've got the app in

835
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:17,639
the hand, you blow and it shows you how much more.

836
00:41:18,199 --> 00:41:20,920
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837
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,840
you whether you're burning mostly fats or carbs, and then

838
00:41:24,159 --> 00:41:26,679
your Lumen will give you a personalized nutrition plant for

839
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,320
that day based on your measurements. You can also breathe

840
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,000
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841
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843
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,800
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844
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,360
your body's engine. It's how your body turns the food

845
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,719
you eat into the fuel that keeps you going. And

846
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because your metabolism is at the center of everything, your

847
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body does optimal metabolic health metabolic optional, let's call it

848
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,559
optimal metabotan restart that paragraph. And because your metabolism is

849
00:41:56,599 --> 00:41:59,400
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850
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851
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852
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all sorts of stuff. Luhman gives you the recommendations to

853
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854
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and I love this device. It's got heft, it's got style,

855
00:42:15,639 --> 00:42:18,639
it just looks cool sitting. It's a little chartered, never

856
00:42:18,679 --> 00:42:19,079
mind what.

857
00:42:19,079 --> 00:42:20,639
Speaker 5: It does, but it's on top.

858
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 1: And every day it tells me as I say how

859
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:25,199
many carbs I can have, and it's like, here you go,

860
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,519
you can have this many carbs. And I love carbs,

861
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so I enjoy them and I thank my lumen. You

862
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865
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867
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Speaker 5: And by the.

868
00:42:44,079 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: Way, it's that time Luhman makes a great gift too,

869
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:51,360
and we thank Luhman for sponsoring this the Ricochet Podcast

870
00:42:53,599 --> 00:42:56,320
and now coming to us finally glad to have him.

871
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:58,519
It's it's our old friend, Noah.

872
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 4: Noah Rothman, thank you for nationalized.

873
00:43:02,199 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 1: Well, of course we've we've just been sitting here saying nothing,

874
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:12,960
staring at the ball, twiddling our fingers. Minor, I have

875
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,119
to tell that everybody, everybody knows who you are, but

876
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,039
just for the one or two or don't. Senior writer

877
00:43:17,159 --> 00:43:19,559
at National Review, the magazine. He's the author of the

878
00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:22,599
Rise of the New Puritans, Fighting Back against Progressives, war

879
00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:25,800
on fund This week alone, he's written about Syria, the

880
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,760
annual Pennygames, the United Health CEO shooting, Biden and Lincoln,

881
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,920
and the lunatic sympathizing with the shooter. All good reasons

882
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,159
to go to are and subscribe. But since we've got

883
00:43:35,199 --> 00:43:37,920
a limited amount of time here, we haven't talked about Syria,

884
00:43:38,559 --> 00:43:44,039
and that escalated quickly and de escalated collapse. All of

885
00:43:44,039 --> 00:43:47,320
a sudden, this iron regime of Bathists disappeared like a

886
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,000
cotton candy hosed down by uh, you know, a fire hose.

887
00:43:51,079 --> 00:43:54,719
And now we're looking at who is there in power

888
00:43:54,840 --> 00:44:00,440
and saying hmm, experience tells us this never goes well,

889
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,400
but we're going to be oddly hopeful now for a

890
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:05,280
while until proved otherwise. Tell us who is in charge,

891
00:44:05,559 --> 00:44:08,039
how much of Syria they really have, and what we

892
00:44:08,119 --> 00:44:10,159
might expect in the months to come.

893
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 7: Well, all of those are actually kind of tough questions

894
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:15,400
to answer because they changed from moment to moment. Insofar

895
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,599
as that we have a faction that is in charge

896
00:44:17,679 --> 00:44:21,880
in Damascus. It is HTS, which is a Turkish back

897
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,440
d Islamist group. It was Al Nusra, which is an

898
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,559
al Qaida offshoot or at least a pledged fealty to

899
00:44:26,559 --> 00:44:29,679
al Qaida. All of eight years ago. There's been a

900
00:44:29,679 --> 00:44:33,400
bit of a schism there, and this organization flew under

901
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,039
the radar save for individuals who are really hyper focused

902
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,920
on this group. They've the individual in charge, al Jelani,

903
00:44:40,519 --> 00:44:43,400
as terrorist. He's got a ten million dollar bounty on

904
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,840
his head from the FBI, and the organization is a

905
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,199
foreign terrorist organization according to the State Department. But al

906
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:50,480
Jelani had been operating out in the open for the

907
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,320
better part of a decade, within or within close to

908
00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:56,199
operating range of US forces in a US theater of

909
00:44:56,519 --> 00:44:59,400
combat operations. He could have been got if they wanted

910
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,079
him to be. I didn't, and that might have something

911
00:45:03,119 --> 00:45:06,320
to do with anchor as interests. Nevertheless, HTS is making

912
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:11,440
a lot of pluralist noises about Syria's minorities. They're attracting

913
00:45:11,559 --> 00:45:15,519
foreign direct investment and opening up the economy in Syria,

914
00:45:15,519 --> 00:45:18,880
at least that's what the design is, to attract more

915
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:22,760
investment and operate with more free market principles. All these

916
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,559
are nice noises, and I think it would be wise

917
00:45:25,639 --> 00:45:29,000
for US to not necessarily discount them at face value,

918
00:45:29,039 --> 00:45:31,360
although not put too much stock into them either. At

919
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,440
this early stage, the Biden administration is flirting with waiving

920
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:37,679
the FTO designation. I think it's premature for that. As

921
00:45:37,679 --> 00:45:40,519
for how much of the country they control, it is

922
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,199
roughly the territory that they took with very little resistance

923
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:47,719
over the space of the last week, the cities of Aleppo, Hama, Homs,

924
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:48,559
and Damascus.

925
00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:49,760
Speaker 5: Roughly.

926
00:45:50,119 --> 00:45:53,079
Speaker 7: Outside of that, there are a variety of other organizations

927
00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:55,679
that are in control of portions of Syria de rezor

928
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,079
in the east where the United States has a footprint,

929
00:45:58,559 --> 00:46:01,280
so Kurdish backed rebels with thes are in charge of

930
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,920
that portion of Syria they operate. They maintain a healthy

931
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:09,079
supply of ISIS captives, about fifty thousand captives in their

932
00:46:09,119 --> 00:46:12,440
custody and SDS Kurds and Turkish backed forces have a

933
00:46:12,519 --> 00:46:16,119
very contentious relationship. The Kurdish forces are under attack from

934
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,280
HTS and the US interests are at stake in that region,

935
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:23,119
and they may be imperiled by HTS as hostilities, but

936
00:46:23,159 --> 00:46:25,760
we think al Jelani might be a little frustrated with that.

937
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:30,360
He's trying to quell some of this unrest between these

938
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,559
two organizations. And then there's a rebel group in the

939
00:46:32,599 --> 00:46:34,719
south that nobody knows about. They're just kind of a

940
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,440
collection of rebels, all of whom have different interests. They're

941
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:40,559
in control of the city of Dhara and others, which

942
00:46:40,599 --> 00:46:45,559
is the cradle of the revolution. Drew's other minorities are

943
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,519
a part of this amalgamation of rebel groups, and we

944
00:46:49,559 --> 00:46:52,239
don't I don't really know much about them, not enough

945
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:54,920
to say they have one cohesive philosophy, for example. So

946
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,800
there's a lot of very competing, competing interests that aren't

947
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,880
necessarily aligned. But these are the early day of the

948
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,280
collapse of a monstrous regime, and jubulation is the sentiment

949
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,960
across the board that will fade soon. But right now,

950
00:47:08,159 --> 00:47:12,239
all of these groups are organizing behind and flying the

951
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,679
green three star rebel flag, and right now that is

952
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,840
what that is. The you know, elation over the fall

953
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,800
of a sad is the dominant emotion. What comes next

954
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:23,920
is anybody's question.

955
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 3: So, Noah, we seem to have been caught in the

956
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,320
United States quite flat footed, which doesn't surprise me, with

957
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,920
the caliber of our intelligence operation, or Anthony Blincoln saying

958
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,400
the last two days, gosh, who knew the Taliban was

959
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:36,760
going to take over Afghanistan?

960
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 4: Right?

961
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,559
Speaker 3: But I'm curious that this happened so suddenly that surely

962
00:47:40,639 --> 00:47:43,360
somebody must have known this was coming, you know, Israel,

963
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:47,480
maybe they're distracted with other things. But how did this

964
00:47:47,519 --> 00:47:49,800
happen that nobody saw it coming? Or did I miss something?

965
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:51,880
Did somebody know that this was about to happen?

966
00:47:52,159 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 4: I don't think you missed well.

967
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,159
Speaker 7: I think probably Anchora and Turkey and the Innerwan government

968
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,320
had some inclination of what was going on here. Say,

969
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:01,840
this does seem to have caught a lot of Western

970
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,559
intelligence agencies flat footed. Including Israel's intelligence agency, and there's

971
00:48:05,599 --> 00:48:08,239
no better actor in the region to be aware of

972
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,760
these of what's coming. It's sort of betrays I mean,

973
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:15,199
as a side note, it betrays the faulty thinking that

974
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,039
is you often see from people on the left and

975
00:48:19,079 --> 00:48:22,519
the right who are genuinely predisposed to a paranoid inclination

976
00:48:23,079 --> 00:48:27,599
which ascribes all actions, all events to the secret machinations

977
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:30,840
in Washington and in Western Capital. Is that we're the

978
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,960
you know, the the machiavellian interest pulling the strings, and

979
00:48:35,039 --> 00:48:38,599
anything that occurs is our doing, or if it did

980
00:48:38,599 --> 00:48:41,079
not occur, it's also our doing. There's the agency of

981
00:48:41,199 --> 00:48:44,039
other foreign actors is totally stripped of them, right, And

982
00:48:44,079 --> 00:48:44,880
that's just not the case.

983
00:48:45,519 --> 00:48:48,039
Speaker 3: I've been saying for years that I wish our CIA

984
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,440
was half as capable as every Hollywood movie made round

985
00:48:51,519 --> 00:48:51,639
to be.

986
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,760
Speaker 2: Yet you know it's a joke. Well you did mention Turkey.

987
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:56,920
Well at two things, you said that you know there's

988
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:59,639
an atmosphere jubilation. Is that honestly true?

989
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:00,159
Speaker 1: Israe?

990
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 3: I mean, I had the sense, but I'm not very

991
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:03,639
fully informed that.

992
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 2: Israel had something of a stable equilibrium with the SOD.

993
00:49:07,039 --> 00:49:08,480
I mean, like him and all the rest of that.

994
00:49:08,639 --> 00:49:11,599
Speaker 3: But Israel seemed to have free reign to you know,

995
00:49:11,639 --> 00:49:15,880
assassinated Ronnie and officials in Damascus, the bomb sites in

996
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,840
Syria from time to time, and Syria they didn't make

997
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,519
noises about it, but never fought back the way Iran did.

998
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:23,280
Speaker 2: And so I don't know.

999
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 3: I would think Israel be very nervous about the instability

1000
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,280
that's now going to happen in the country. And you've

1001
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,039
seen in the fact that Israel has been very active

1002
00:49:30,039 --> 00:49:32,119
in bombing a lot of military capacity.

1003
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,559
Speaker 1: I think rightly so. But they've been making Hey while

1004
00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:37,280
the sun shines. They have destroyed the naval and air

1005
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,920
force capacities and the as well as the anti aircraft battery,

1006
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:44,320
and practically have a free ride to Iran except for

1007
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,119
the little patch they got to go through a rock.

1008
00:49:48,079 --> 00:49:53,960
Is Israel acting in offensive defensiveness? No, they How would

1009
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:55,079
you characterize what they're doing.

1010
00:49:55,639 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 7: I wouldn't characterize Jerusalem's relationship with Assad's Damascus is necessarily stable, exactly,

1011
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:04,239
certainly not.

1012
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:06,679
Speaker 4: Cooperative.

1013
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,119
Speaker 7: Israel has come under attack from Syria throughout the course

1014
00:50:10,199 --> 00:50:15,239
of Israel's existence, and Saudi Arabia or Saudi Arabia. Syria

1015
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:20,280
represented an unbroken corridor through which Iran filtered arms and

1016
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:26,760
munitions and funds to Hezbollah relatively unmolested. So the elimination

1017
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,239
of that corridor is advances Israel's interests. It's preferable, I think,

1018
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,639
to the status quo ante and as you say, the

1019
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:37,000
dozens and dozens hundreds at this point, strikes on Syrian positions,

1020
00:50:37,039 --> 00:50:43,000
Syrian military positions and disabling its air force, putting its

1021
00:50:43,079 --> 00:50:45,519
navy at the bottom of the port of Latakia and

1022
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,760
destroying a lot of vehicles is the sort of thing

1023
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,440
you would do if you were very afraid of what

1024
00:50:51,679 --> 00:50:54,679
comes next. But it's also something they couldn't do. While

1025
00:50:54,679 --> 00:50:58,719
the Asad regime was there and Russia maintained in air corridor,

1026
00:50:59,079 --> 00:51:01,760
they had airspace that you could not violate in the

1027
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,320
United States abided by that as well. Israel occasionally would

1028
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,960
execute strikes at some serious risk because of the Assad's

1029
00:51:10,079 --> 00:51:12,679
air batteries. The Iran provided air batteries and Russian provided

1030
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:14,719
air batteries were pretty sophisticated, and there was always a

1031
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,960
threat that if you were they were going in to

1032
00:51:17,079 --> 00:51:19,920
execute one pinprick strike or the other, that it could

1033
00:51:20,159 --> 00:51:24,760
be disastrous, But that threat has disappeared, and we're taking

1034
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,960
maximum advantage of it. To the United States, we've executed

1035
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,679
dozens of air strikes on ISIS positions that were being

1036
00:51:32,079 --> 00:51:35,239
incubated by the Asad regime and supported and protected by

1037
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:39,280
Russian air support. Another myth that's been blown apart by

1038
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:42,480
the destruction of the Asad regime is one promulgated by

1039
00:51:42,519 --> 00:51:47,159
Assads anti anti supporters and outright supporters who said, well,

1040
00:51:47,159 --> 00:51:48,639
at least you know the Asad regime. There are a

1041
00:51:48,639 --> 00:51:51,199
bunch of monsters, but at least they're killing terrorists. At

1042
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,159
least they're killing ISIS now. They weren't, they never were.

1043
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,719
The Asid regime incubated the the ISIS threat in thirteen,

1044
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,039
twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen. It bought oil from them, their

1045
00:52:02,039 --> 00:52:05,800
own oil, purchased it. It managed to It turned a

1046
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:09,400
blind eye and de coordinated maneuvers with ISIS and certain

1047
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,480
points in order to preserve ISIS columns and turn their

1048
00:52:13,519 --> 00:52:18,079
fire on SDS rebels and SDF rebels Syrian democratic forces

1049
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,599
and neutralize what was at the outset of the Syrian

1050
00:52:21,679 --> 00:52:26,440
Civil War I modestly pro Western opposition. Now the pro

1051
00:52:26,519 --> 00:52:29,480
Western opposition has been decimated. There's a lot of resistance

1052
00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:32,000
to the idea that there ever was pro Western opposition,

1053
00:52:32,159 --> 00:52:35,880
but compared to what exists today, yeah, it certainly looks

1054
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:41,000
pro Western. Both Russia and Assad and Iran managed to

1055
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,039
defeat those moderate elements and present the West with a

1056
00:52:44,079 --> 00:52:46,639
Phata company on the ground and a dichotomy that didn't

1057
00:52:46,639 --> 00:52:48,480
exist previously, but a binary one.

1058
00:52:48,599 --> 00:52:49,199
Speaker 4: What are you going to do.

1059
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,320
Speaker 7: You're going to go with this monstrous secular regime or

1060
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,679
you're going to go with these monstrous is lomists who

1061
00:52:53,679 --> 00:52:54,840
want to cut your heads off?

1062
00:52:55,199 --> 00:52:56,039
Speaker 4: And that prevailed.

1063
00:52:56,039 --> 00:52:58,280
Speaker 7: That was a really effective strategy on the part of

1064
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:01,079
Damascus and its apologists. But with the end of the

1065
00:53:01,119 --> 00:53:02,719
regime comes the end of that illusion.

1066
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:08,760
Speaker 6: I have a question that reflects my general simplicity in

1067
00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:14,840
thinking on this topic. If you were God, no heaven forulfened,

1068
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:20,400
and you could determine whether or not this happened. In

1069
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,639
other words, you get to decide we keep the status

1070
00:53:22,639 --> 00:53:25,320
cross it was the day before the regime foul.

1071
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,079
Speaker 4: Or we deal with what we're dealing with now. Which

1072
00:53:27,119 --> 00:53:28,119
one would you have chosen?

1073
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 7: Well, if I were a benevolent deity, I'd be able

1074
00:53:32,519 --> 00:53:35,559
to foresee how this would unfold. And because I am not,

1075
00:53:35,639 --> 00:53:38,519
I can't. I cannot predict the future and there are

1076
00:53:38,559 --> 00:53:41,800
far too many variables for me and take.

1077
00:53:42,559 --> 00:53:46,159
Speaker 1: The theological explanation is that the benevolent deity denies himself

1078
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:49,039
for knowledge of the events deep.

1079
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 7: That is truly deep, and I'm going to go back

1080
00:53:51,039 --> 00:53:51,679
to life.

1081
00:53:52,119 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 6: I asked that just because I've been asked by a

1082
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,639
few people who labor under the misapprehension that I am

1083
00:53:57,639 --> 00:53:59,199
a great foreign policy mind.

1084
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 4: Is the good all bad? And I don't know how

1085
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:03,519
to answer it.

1086
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,559
Speaker 7: Well, there's a lot of good. Let's say, let's start

1087
00:54:07,559 --> 00:54:11,280
with the good. The good is this truly evil regime

1088
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:16,199
is gone. It's crimes against its own people, it's attacks

1089
00:54:16,199 --> 00:54:19,679
on the United States, its efforts to kill Americans. The

1090
00:54:19,679 --> 00:54:22,719
Syrian regime was responsible for funneling in a round backed

1091
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:26,599
insurgents into Iraq during the insurgency and with the mission

1092
00:54:26,599 --> 00:54:31,480
of killing Americans successfully. Those people who served, like Tulsea Gabbard,

1093
00:54:32,119 --> 00:54:35,159
understand that full well, and it's inexplicable to me that

1094
00:54:35,159 --> 00:54:37,199
they would say that the side represents no threat to

1095
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,400
the United States because they were killing Americans. That's over

1096
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,239
the corridors that transmit weapons and material to hes Belah,

1097
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:47,239
such as it is now that it's been pretty well

1098
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,800
decimated by Israel, is going to be closed off most likely,

1099
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,039
and Israel is making efforts to do that by making

1100
00:54:53,079 --> 00:54:56,239
incursions into southern portion and expanding this buffer zone around

1101
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:58,880
the goal On Heights to ensure that Lebanon the roots

1102
00:54:58,920 --> 00:54:59,920
to Levinon are cut off.

1103
00:55:00,119 --> 00:55:00,639
Speaker 4: That's good.

1104
00:55:01,559 --> 00:55:06,519
Speaker 7: And an institution in Damascus that allowed Isis to survive

1105
00:55:06,599 --> 00:55:09,480
and indeed thrive in the last decade is gone. All

1106
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,519
good stuff, So what comes next? That could be the

1107
00:55:12,519 --> 00:55:14,519
bad part, but it's too early to say if it's

1108
00:55:14,519 --> 00:55:16,239
the bad part. As I said, Jilani is making a

1109
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:19,320
lot of pleasant noises designed in my view, not to

1110
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:22,239
lull the West into a false sense of security, but

1111
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,119
to lull the West into a real sense of security.

1112
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,559
They want space, They want space to be able to

1113
00:55:27,559 --> 00:55:30,920
consolidate power, to consolidate as much territory under the control

1114
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,159
of this regime as possible. In Syria is again very

1115
00:55:33,599 --> 00:55:37,719
very carved up. There's a small corridor along the Lebanese

1116
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:39,840
border in the coast which is under the control of

1117
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,039
s HTS, but the rest of it is kind of

1118
00:55:42,079 --> 00:55:44,599
lawless and under control of a variety of other factions

1119
00:55:44,599 --> 00:55:46,880
that may or may not owe their allegiance to HTS.

1120
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,719
The worst case scenarios are kind of concerning the prospect

1121
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:54,920
of an Islamist regime arising in Damascus bent on projecting terror,

1122
00:55:56,199 --> 00:55:59,440
exporting terror to the West is a live possibility, and

1123
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,559
that would be a real destabilizing and couldn't necessitate a

1124
00:56:02,639 --> 00:56:05,079
multinational mission to put an end to that regime.

1125
00:56:05,119 --> 00:56:05,679
Speaker 4: We cannot.

1126
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:08,440
Speaker 7: We operated under the delusion in the last half decade

1127
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:10,719
that some of the most foot over territory on the

1128
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,440
planet Earth is something we can afford to simply let

1129
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,159
go sit back, see what happens, and we would absorb

1130
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:18,639
no threats to us interests.

1131
00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 2: We will so an other words, stay tuned for the sequel.

1132
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 3: Well, so we have time for one last question, Noah,

1133
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:27,679
and it's it's kind of a big one, so we

1134
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:30,199
can't do the full analysis of it, but you can

1135
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,440
almost do it, yes or no. We know that, for example,

1136
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,199
Putin is trying to reassemble the old Soviet Empire or

1137
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:38,480
maybe some older version of the Russian Empire. I'm wondering

1138
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:42,760
if Erduwan and Turkey have in their mind, the grandiose

1139
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,559
idea of reassembling the Ottoman Empire. Is that a ridiculous

1140
00:56:46,559 --> 00:56:47,599
thing to speculate about.

1141
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 7: No, I mean yes, insofar as we're not going to

1142
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:57,239
see Ankor with you know, a vast declared control over

1143
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:02,320
the Levant, and you know, and and Iraq and Jordan.

1144
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,280
Speaker 4: It's just that's that's off the table.

1145
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 7: But Turkey's Airedowan in particular, in Turkey's position has been

1146
00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:13,320
diplomatically expanding pretty dramatically. It's a semi hostile power to

1147
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:15,480
the United States. It's not a friend. It's not exactly

1148
00:57:15,519 --> 00:57:17,639
an enemy per se, but it is not it's not

1149
00:57:17,679 --> 00:57:20,280
a it's not a reliable partner for the West, and

1150
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:24,280
we should be leery of its influence. It's Airedwan himself

1151
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:27,400
has been very friendly towards is Lamist elements, Sunni Islamist elements,

1152
00:57:28,239 --> 00:57:32,239
so we should we should be skeptical of that. But

1153
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,519
the thing that you mentioned, they're going back to Czarist

1154
00:57:35,639 --> 00:57:40,800
period and his tensions between U and Russia, is that

1155
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:45,360
these these two powers have a very uncomfortable relationship with

1156
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,039
each other. And we got very close to a very

1157
00:57:49,079 --> 00:57:52,480
serious crisis in twenty fifteen when a Turkish fighter was

1158
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,239
shot out of the sky by Russian air defenses. Turkey

1159
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:57,599
went to the mat Turkey went to NATO and invoked

1160
00:57:57,679 --> 00:58:01,920
Article four, which is the prerequisite, but the consultation phase

1161
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,239
before you get to Article five, which is the invocation

1162
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,199
of mutual defense provisions. It was a very dangerous period

1163
00:58:07,199 --> 00:58:11,239
in Syria between between twenty fourteen twenty fifteen, when everybody

1164
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,960
was intervening in that conflict and everybody is shooting at

1165
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:17,599
each other's proxies and very close proximity in a live theater,

1166
00:58:18,119 --> 00:58:20,360
that's really dangerous. That's the sort of thing we really

1167
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,360
wanted to avoid. In people like me who were saying

1168
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:25,239
we need to prevent that. We're getting very nervous about

1169
00:58:25,239 --> 00:58:27,679
that sort of dynamic, and we could see something very

1170
00:58:27,679 --> 00:58:31,519
similar in and around Black Sea region in Syria and

1171
00:58:31,559 --> 00:58:36,000
in the eastern part portions of Turkey which are hotly contested.

1172
00:58:36,159 --> 00:58:39,960
Russia and Anchor have sort of a thought relationship right now,

1173
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:44,559
but I don't suspect that that will last permanently. The

1174
00:58:44,599 --> 00:58:47,960
two of them are are drawn to each other only

1175
00:58:48,039 --> 00:58:50,320
in so far as they're opposed to the West's interests,

1176
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,599
in Washington's interests, and once Washington's interests are no longer

1177
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,320
the thing that they are united against. Then they have

1178
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,960
a tendency to conflict. So I would imagine that we

1179
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:01,800
would see conflicts rather than later between them. But yes,

1180
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:06,239
Ancre is an expansionist power, at least diplomatically, not necessarily

1181
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,880
in terms of seizing new territory and subsuming it into

1182
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:14,000
the Turkish Turkish national conception of itself. But it has

1183
00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:17,719
absolutely has designs on its region and expanding its diplomatic influence,

1184
00:59:17,719 --> 00:59:20,000
and it's going about it in a very aggressive way,

1185
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,119
in a successful way. Syria is right now what it

1186
00:59:23,199 --> 00:59:27,679
had not been previously, a satellite to Anchora.

1187
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,679
Speaker 1: If Aragon draws a great chain across the Bosporus, then

1188
00:59:31,719 --> 00:59:33,719
I think we should go in. Then I think we

1189
00:59:33,719 --> 00:59:37,039
should go in and rename the whole place Constantinople and

1190
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,159
take it back, because I'm against the colonial enterprise and

1191
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,880
renamed it as such. I know we've got to go, absolutely,

1192
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,559
absolutely if we go. As long as we got the

1193
00:59:47,559 --> 00:59:49,599
time machine, let's go back and let's take a look

1194
00:59:49,599 --> 00:59:52,480
at this ball for stuff, and let's take the carving

1195
00:59:52,599 --> 00:59:55,760
up of the region into these strangely shaped nations that

1196
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,800
had two or three warring clans within them, ensuring that

1197
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:02,119
they'd be in continuous discord and a lot them to

1198
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:05,079
the groups themselves so that everybody had their own state

1199
01:00:05,119 --> 01:00:08,400
and then they could fight each other in between nations

1200
01:00:08,639 --> 01:00:11,159
instead of destabilizing the nations that they're currently.

1201
01:00:11,199 --> 01:00:14,639
Speaker 7: If the principle of self determination applies, then we should

1202
01:00:14,679 --> 01:00:17,239
be applying it to these druze communities that are outright

1203
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:21,280
stating we want to join Israel and be governed by Jerusalem, which.

1204
01:00:21,159 --> 01:00:22,639
Speaker 5: I think is absolutely fascinating.

1205
01:00:22,719 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: Why you mean these people are actually putting up their

1206
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:26,239
hand and saying, yes, I want to be part of

1207
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:27,199
the genocidal state.

1208
01:00:27,239 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 5: Why why? Why? Yes? They are ill end with that.

1209
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:31,960
We have to leave Noah Rothman.

1210
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: You can read everything that he does, and you should

1211
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,840
at National Review and the magazine and the online site.

1212
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:39,519
We thank you for dropping by today, and the fact

1213
01:00:39,519 --> 01:00:41,239
that we've only had twenty minutes with you is your

1214
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:42,039
own dang fault.

1215
01:00:42,159 --> 01:00:43,679
Speaker 4: Next time show apoloities again.

1216
01:00:43,719 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 5: Thank you guys, so you know it and we got

1217
01:00:46,519 --> 01:00:48,559
to go too. And that's that.

1218
01:00:48,719 --> 01:00:50,719
Speaker 1: We invite you to go to ricochet dot com and

1219
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:52,920
sign up because it will make you happy to do so.

1220
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,719
Behind the line of the member feed is a community

1221
01:00:56,719 --> 01:00:58,679
that you've been looking for all your days on the

1222
01:00:58,719 --> 01:01:03,199
internet to trust me, sane, mostly civil, mostly center right. Mostly.

1223
01:01:03,760 --> 01:01:06,599
We contain multitudes, and we charge for the privilege of

1224
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:11,639
being part of it. But it's small and it's worth it. Charles,

1225
01:01:11,719 --> 01:01:13,960
thank you, Stephen, thank you. I know that both of

1226
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:18,280
you want people to go to Apple, iPod iPad I

1227
01:01:18,599 --> 01:01:21,199
podcast whatever they call it, now give us a good review.

1228
01:01:21,199 --> 01:01:22,880
And I know that you would like everybody to go

1229
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:26,119
to Lumen to say yes, I want that device from

1230
01:01:26,119 --> 01:01:28,719
my metabolic health, and you would also advise them to

1231
01:01:28,719 --> 01:01:30,400
go to ze Biotics so they can feel better the

1232
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,639
next morning. In short, we have provided you with insight

1233
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:36,400
products to make your life better and things that you

1234
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:39,360
hadn't thought before, delivered with the dulca tones of Stephen

1235
01:01:39,519 --> 01:01:43,400
and Charles. Who if you see him out there and

1236
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,199
he heads into a restaurant, I'd maybe go to one

1237
01:01:46,239 --> 01:01:46,800
down the street.

1238
01:01:49,039 --> 01:01:49,920
Speaker 5: Gentlemen, it's been great.

1239
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 1: We'll see you next week.

1240
01:01:51,159 --> 01:01:56,239
Speaker 2: Next week, Ricochet

1241
01:01:58,920 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 5: Join the conversation.