1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,399
Speaker 1: Everybody, and welcome to the program. We're gonna get right

2
00:00:03,439 --> 00:00:08,160
into it tonight. Considering this is a relatively long article,

3
00:00:09,519 --> 00:00:13,800
it's really an editorial that was posted by Lawrence Lessig

4
00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:20,199
over at the Harvard Crimson. Now, Lawrence Lessig is the

5
00:00:20,679 --> 00:00:25,320
RL Furman Professor of Law and Leadership at Harvard, and

6
00:00:25,559 --> 00:00:29,600
he's taking Harvard to task in this editorial. Folks, I've

7
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:34,640
been calling for this kind of rhetoric for quite some time,

8
00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,200
and very few people in academia were willing to stand

9
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:44,359
up and say anything about this stuff. Doctor Stephen Delay

10
00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:45,320
was one of.

11
00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:46,000
Speaker 2: The very few.

12
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,799
Speaker 1: So it's nice to see Lawrence Lessig show up to

13
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,799
the party. I mean a little late, obviously, but still,

14
00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,399
what do I always talk about? If the people that

15
00:00:57,439 --> 00:01:01,200
are within these institutions aren't holding their peers and each

16
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,439
other responsible for their behavior, then how can anybody on

17
00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:10,480
the outside ever expect for that to occur? So it

18
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:16,640
starts on the inside and seeing seeing Lawrence Lessig pen

19
00:01:16,799 --> 00:01:21,560
this essay, this editorial here is certainly a step in

20
00:01:21,599 --> 00:01:24,920
the right direction. So let's jump right into it and

21
00:01:25,159 --> 00:01:28,719
let's see what he has to say. This appeared in

22
00:01:28,799 --> 00:01:37,319
the Harvard Crimson. Author is Lawrence Lessig. Harvard has apparently

23
00:01:37,359 --> 00:01:40,920
concluded its review of its relationship to the convicted child

24
00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:42,760
sex offender Jeffrey E.

25
00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:43,280
Speaker 2: Epstein.

26
00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:49,000
Speaker 1: In September twenty nineteen, after expressing that he profoundly regrets

27
00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:55,680
Harvard's association with Epstein, University President Lawrence S. Bakow promised

28
00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,040
to review how we prevent these situations in the future

29
00:01:59,599 --> 00:02:02,359
and what did we get, Like usual when it comes

30
00:02:02,359 --> 00:02:06,560
to these internal reports, or we're gonna have a real

31
00:02:06,799 --> 00:02:09,479
reflective look in the mirror and we're gonna see how

32
00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,120
we can be better. Whenever it's that kind of stuff,

33
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,520
it usually falls flat on its face, At least with

34
00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:20,360
my experience here in the Epstein case, every single time

35
00:02:20,439 --> 00:02:26,400
one of these groups does an internal review, it always

36
00:02:26,479 --> 00:02:37,639
turns out to be absolute garbage. The report found Harvard

37
00:02:37,719 --> 00:02:41,120
had taken no money from Epstein after its conviction, though

38
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,520
there were further questions that merited study. Two weeks ago,

39
00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,520
after completing that study, Harvard determined to shutter the research

40
00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:54,960
center Epstein's money had founded and discipline its academic director.

41
00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,360
Yet in these steps, Harvard has still not given us

42
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,759
a fair account of our past, and worse, in this

43
00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,159
latest step, it hides that account behind a scapegoat, and

44
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,319
that is definitely the case. They have scapegoated from the

45
00:03:10,479 --> 00:03:14,280
jump over at Harvard. None of the people at the top,

46
00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,919
none of the trustees, Lawrence back Out, none of these

47
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,680
other people that are, you know, top dog at Harvard,

48
00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:24,080
people that are supposed to be responsible for this sort

49
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:28,520
of thing. None of these people have felt the full

50
00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,439
weight of what occurred. None of them have stepped down

51
00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,800
or lost their positions, or lost tenure or lost anything

52
00:03:34,879 --> 00:03:39,680
like that. Instead, a few of the people who were

53
00:03:39,719 --> 00:03:42,960
getting that money directly from Epstein ended up being the

54
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,439
only people to take the fall. And while they should have,

55
00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,400
right the people that facilitated the Epstein money in the

56
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,439
first place, the scientists that he was collecting and that

57
00:03:52,479 --> 00:03:54,719
we're taking money from him, all of those sons of

58
00:03:54,759 --> 00:03:57,599
bitches should have lost their jobs for sure. They should

59
00:03:57,599 --> 00:04:01,879
have lost tenure, they should have lost everything, honestly, But

60
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,840
the same goes for the people above them. Is there

61
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:12,120
no accountability when it comes to the management level, so

62
00:04:12,199 --> 00:04:16,439
to say, in this situation, is it just the professors

63
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,399
who should be sanctioned who should lose their jobs or

64
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,240
should everybody who was around at that time everybody who

65
00:04:23,319 --> 00:04:26,639
should have seen what was going on who didn't, either

66
00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,600
willfully or because they are morons. All of those people

67
00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,920
should not be in the positions that they're in. There

68
00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,560
are plenty of capable positions people to fill those positions.

69
00:04:41,639 --> 00:04:45,000
There are three chapters in the evolving relationship between academic

70
00:04:45,079 --> 00:04:49,560
institutions and Jeffrey Epstein. In the first, before his conviction

71
00:04:49,639 --> 00:04:53,839
in two thousand and eight, everyone loves Epstein, and that

72
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,160
is the case. All of these people were gushing over Epstein.

73
00:04:58,199 --> 00:05:01,639
Remember the Vanity Fair article. You know, these people were

74
00:05:01,639 --> 00:05:06,759
gushing over Epstein. And they'll tell you now that, oh,

75
00:05:06,879 --> 00:05:10,680
we had no idea what Jeffrey Epstein was. There was

76
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,519
no signs nobody had any idea. Meanwhile, we know that's

77
00:05:14,519 --> 00:05:17,959
a bunch of bs, right, We all know that that's garbage.

78
00:05:19,399 --> 00:05:22,040
Epstein didn't wake up one morning and decide to become

79
00:05:22,079 --> 00:05:25,399
an absolute scumbag pervert.

80
00:05:26,079 --> 00:05:27,120
Speaker 2: This is who he was.

81
00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,360
Speaker 1: This is the kind of person he was. This was

82
00:05:29,399 --> 00:05:32,480
his character. All of those crass jokes while you guys

83
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,399
are all around at a science conference that didn't ring

84
00:05:35,439 --> 00:05:39,399
a few alarm bells, I mean, come on, already, there's

85
00:05:39,399 --> 00:05:41,759
a time and place for everything. You know, you're sitting

86
00:05:41,759 --> 00:05:44,120
around with the guys. It's a poker game. You want

87
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:45,639
to have some crass language.

88
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,399
Speaker 2: I get it. Yeah, of course that's what guys do.

89
00:05:47,759 --> 00:05:50,439
I get it. You're at a science conference.

90
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,560
Speaker 1: Why do you need to have girls with you? Why

91
00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,720
do you need to talk about disgusting topics that you

92
00:05:56,759 --> 00:06:01,639
know these? There's no place for it in the environment

93
00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,240
or the setting. And that didn't ring any of the

94
00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,279
alarm bells, didn't go off for anybody. It didn't ring

95
00:06:06,319 --> 00:06:07,319
any alarm bells for any.

96
00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,439
Speaker 2: Of these people. Please give me a break.

97
00:06:09,879 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 1: I'm just you know, I'm so sick of the well,

98
00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,600
we had no idea. We didn't hear anything, we didn't

99
00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:25,040
see anything. Well, you certainly didn't say anything. In the

100
00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,560
third after the twenty eighteen article in the Miami Herald

101
00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:33,279
detailing his depravity, everyone hates Epstein. A hold on a second,

102
00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,480
You guys should have hated him a long time before that.

103
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,040
This stuff was out there. People were talking about who

104
00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:44,160
Epstein was. There was, you know, a lot going on

105
00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:49,639
in that realm of the atmosphere. People knew exactly what

106
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:54,959
Epstein was. It didn't take the Julie Brown article to

107
00:06:55,079 --> 00:06:58,519
let people know what Jeffrey Epstein was. The Julie Brown

108
00:06:58,639 --> 00:07:05,319
article that got people to start paying attention. But in

109
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,120
the second there's an ambiguous dance between this generous funder

110
00:07:09,439 --> 00:07:14,240
pedophile and universities that recognize complexity in taking his money.

111
00:07:14,439 --> 00:07:17,040
Seeing that that's one of my biggest problems with this.

112
00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,160
They knew it was wrong to take old boys dough,

113
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,720
but they did it anyway, and then when they're called

114
00:07:23,759 --> 00:07:27,000
out on it, they start with the whole nonsense of, well,

115
00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,519
what do you mean, We had no idea, You knew

116
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,040
everybody knew. You took that money anyway. And what you

117
00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,639
thought was that Jeffrey Epstein was in the clear. He

118
00:07:37,759 --> 00:07:40,000
did his time, they weren't gonna come get him again

119
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,120
because of all of his connections. There was no way

120
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:46,399
that was going to occur. So these dudes hopped right

121
00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,480
back into bed with them, had their hand out, and

122
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:56,240
Jeffrey Epstein was handing out the hundreds of thousands. In

123
00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,920
two thousand and eight, former university president Drew G. Faust

124
00:08:01,319 --> 00:08:06,439
resolved that complexity with clarity, but incompletely unlike others such

125
00:08:06,439 --> 00:08:09,800
as Mit, Faust determined that Harvard would take no more

126
00:08:09,839 --> 00:08:14,720
money from Epstein. According to the May twenty twenty report,

127
00:08:15,399 --> 00:08:19,879
Yeah okay, but very much like others, including MIT, she

128
00:08:19,959 --> 00:08:23,160
gave no directive about how the many other ways that

129
00:08:23,199 --> 00:08:26,560
Epstein was connected to the university should be affected by

130
00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,120
her determination. Of course, she didn't go all the way.

131
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:33,159
You know that's called mister Lessig. I'm pretty sure you

132
00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:39,679
know you're a very skilled lawyer, very intelligent man, well schooled,

133
00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:44,000
much more well schooled than me, that's for sure. But

134
00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,879
the cynic in me says it was left there on

135
00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,440
purpose as a loophole so they could still get that

136
00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:59,240
money while attaining plausible deniability. In particular, she gave no

137
00:08:59,279 --> 00:09:02,440
guidance about how the center that Epstein's main contribution to

138
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:07,399
Harvard had established, the Program on Evolutionary Evolutionary Dynamics, should

139
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:12,240
negotiate its continued interactions with Epstein. And I'm sure that

140
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,960
mister Lessig here is going to give us a different

141
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,080
avenue and a different bit of thought. But for me,

142
00:09:18,279 --> 00:09:20,519
the cynic in me, and I'm sorry I have to

143
00:09:20,519 --> 00:09:24,360
be so cynical when dealing with this case, but the

144
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,679
track record has made it so so it looks to

145
00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,960
me like this is a loophole that she left in

146
00:09:31,039 --> 00:09:34,120
there so that the professors could still continue to rake

147
00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,120
in the dough, while the university at the same time

148
00:09:37,159 --> 00:09:39,960
could say, well, look, we have these guidelines in place.

149
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,000
We're not involved in that. We didn't know anything about it.

150
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,480
So it was kind of a you know, wink wink,

151
00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:54,480
nudge nudge kind of deal. In particular, oh, pastor excuse me,

152
00:09:54,639 --> 00:09:58,559
because from the start, Epstein was constantly engaged with PED

153
00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,360
and with others through PED. And that's the program on

154
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:09,879
Evolutionary Dynamics. That's the the way that they talk about it,

155
00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,600
you know, when they abbreviate it, it's called the PED.

156
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,279
According to a letter that Martin Nowak, the ped's academic director,

157
00:10:19,519 --> 00:10:22,919
sent to administrators when the center was founded, Harvard's then

158
00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,440
president Lawrence H.

159
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:24,919
Speaker 2: Summers.

160
00:10:25,039 --> 00:10:28,279
Speaker 1: Huh, that name sounds familiar, doesn't It got Epstein to

161
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,159
pay the rent for ped's office not on Harvard's campus,

162
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:38,039
but in commercial space in Harvard's Square. And you all

163
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,399
remember Larry Summers, right, Lawrence H. Summers, good friend of Obama's.

164
00:10:42,799 --> 00:10:47,480
You know, one of those guys, Yeah, Larry Summers, typical

165
00:10:48,720 --> 00:11:00,320
academia scuzzball. From the beginning, Epstein treated that space as

166
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,480
a second office in Cambridge. Epstein traveled to Cambridge regularly

167
00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:09,919
to meet with Harvard's most luminary, including Summers, regularly but

168
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:14,679
not exclusively at ped Those meetings are described as interesting

169
00:11:14,759 --> 00:11:18,799
and intellectual in Noac's letter. There is no suggestion they

170
00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:24,440
involved any inappropriate behavior, well beyond, of course, the inappropriateness

171
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:29,759
of including Epstein himself. So I'm certainly not laying out

172
00:11:29,799 --> 00:11:32,879
the charges that there was inappropriate behavior as far as

173
00:11:32,919 --> 00:11:35,840
abusing girls here. I'll leave that to some of the

174
00:11:35,879 --> 00:11:41,360
other fantasists that are floating around. What I am saying, though,

175
00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:45,480
is Larry Summers is an absolute jerk, an absolute scuzzball,

176
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,000
and an absolute moron. Larry Summers is the kind of

177
00:11:49,039 --> 00:11:53,279
guy that epitomizes everything that was wrong with academia and

178
00:11:53,320 --> 00:12:01,480
their relationship with Epstein, Politically connected, locked in at the university,

179
00:12:02,399 --> 00:12:07,000
top of his field, and the exact kind of guy

180
00:12:07,159 --> 00:12:15,000
Jeffrey Epstein loved. Hanging around. These sores continued long after

181
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,759
the two thousand and eight ban on raising Epstein money.

182
00:12:18,279 --> 00:12:22,720
The question is why some thought the ban would be temporary.

183
00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,600
Some hoped Epstein's reputation might be restored. All right, Well,

184
00:12:27,639 --> 00:12:29,799
hold on hit the Brakes restored.

185
00:12:29,919 --> 00:12:31,200
Speaker 2: His reputation restored.

186
00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:34,600
Speaker 1: Huh Again, we're not talking about somebody who was involved

187
00:12:34,759 --> 00:12:39,159
in a money a money scam here. We're not talking

188
00:12:39,159 --> 00:12:41,039
about somebody who got into a fight in the bar

189
00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:44,440
and things went too far and the person he was

190
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:49,879
fighting with got hurt severely. You know, people make mistakes, right,

191
00:12:49,919 --> 00:12:52,240
you can forgive mistakes, is what I'm trying to get at.

192
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:58,440
But this is no gray area mistake. This is no

193
00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:02,080
Ah Man, I really, I really really screwed up this time.

194
00:13:04,039 --> 00:13:08,919
That's not what this was. This was human trafficking of children,

195
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:19,159
point blank period. Some believed it morally obligatory to give

196
00:13:19,159 --> 00:13:21,679
a criminal a chance at redemption, and.

197
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:22,679
Speaker 2: That's such BS two.

198
00:13:22,759 --> 00:13:25,120
Speaker 1: All of these elites love to talk about that, But

199
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,120
what have they done to really give people who need

200
00:13:28,159 --> 00:13:30,840
a second chance a second chance? The dude that got

201
00:13:30,919 --> 00:13:35,960
popped for selling some pot, guy on the corner, who

202
00:13:36,039 --> 00:13:38,639
got nailed with some crack who's doing a lot longer

203
00:13:38,679 --> 00:13:41,240
than the dude who had the same amount of powdered coke.

204
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,919
Where are they to help these people out? Nowhere to

205
00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,039
be found are they? They loved the blow VI eight

206
00:13:48,279 --> 00:13:51,320
and they love the virtue signal but they don't love

207
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:57,320
to strap on their boots and get down to work.

208
00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:02,559
Noac was told as much by his spiritual advisor, which

209
00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:07,320
he shared in his letter to the administration. His spiritual advisor, huh,

210
00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:12,159
I mean, are you really your spiritual advisor told you

211
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,679
that you should help Jeffrey Epstein refurbish his image.

212
00:14:14,759 --> 00:14:15,120
Speaker 2: Huh?

213
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,559
Speaker 1: Talk about passing the buck, talk about absolutely passing the buck.

214
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,679
Whatever the reason, the reality is that there was no

215
00:14:23,759 --> 00:14:26,759
real change in the practical relationship that Epstein had to

216
00:14:26,799 --> 00:14:30,399
Harvard beyond his ability to write Harvard a check. The

217
00:14:30,519 --> 00:14:36,679
meetings continued, the relationships grew deeper, The conversations on and

218
00:14:36,759 --> 00:14:42,000
near campus were many, and there are just tons and

219
00:14:42,039 --> 00:14:43,840
tons of people who have talked about this, who have

220
00:14:43,919 --> 00:14:47,399
witnessed it, and it's in their report itself, So there's

221
00:14:47,399 --> 00:14:54,559
no denying Jeffrey Epstein's presence on the campus and around

222
00:14:54,759 --> 00:15:02,159
these professors. What continued as well was PD's need for money.

223
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:07,720
Like Epstein's, PD's rent was substantial. Noak reports that at first,

224
00:15:08,039 --> 00:15:12,080
after Foss ban, Harvard had agreed to assume it, but

225
00:15:12,159 --> 00:15:15,639
after the financial crisis, Noac was informed that he would

226
00:15:15,639 --> 00:15:19,360
have to raise it himself, so again, Harvard is not

227
00:15:19,399 --> 00:15:21,200
getting off the hook here, at least not with me.

228
00:15:21,679 --> 00:15:24,159
Some people might let them off the hook, but not me.

229
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,720
They're the institution here. They're the ones where the bucks stops.

230
00:15:30,279 --> 00:15:34,120
So after the financial meltdown, you clowns didn't have the

231
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,720
money to fund this department, so you told this professor

232
00:15:36,759 --> 00:15:38,720
it's up to him to do it himself. And then

233
00:15:38,759 --> 00:15:40,960
there was no checks and balances, Like you had never

234
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:47,039
seen Epstein's name before. All of its smacks of absolute

235
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:54,600
b s. Foundations usually don't give academic grantees money to

236
00:15:54,639 --> 00:15:58,440
cover rent, so everyone knew those additional funds would have

237
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,759
to be, like Epstein, from private individuals. An FAS Development

238
00:16:03,799 --> 00:16:08,080
Office staff member encouraged Noak as late as twenty seventeen

239
00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:12,039
to ask Epstein to ask his friends to help. According

240
00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,720
to the May twenty twenty report, so we want Epstein's money,

241
00:16:16,039 --> 00:16:17,960
but we don't want the stink of Epstein on it.

242
00:16:18,159 --> 00:16:21,200
So let's have Epstein middle man it and get some

243
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,240
of his rich ahole homies to fill the void. And

244
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:27,360
then that'll give us the cover we need because we

245
00:16:27,399 --> 00:16:30,919
could say, well, Epstein didn't give us the money. Insert

246
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:45,159
scumbag here did, as late as twenty seventeen to ask

247
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:50,279
Epstein to ask his friends to help. Noak followed Harvard's direction,

248
00:16:50,759 --> 00:16:55,399
Epstein obliged, securing substantial support from his friend. Oh here's

249
00:16:55,399 --> 00:16:56,960
a name that all of you are going to know,

250
00:16:57,519 --> 00:17:01,639
Leon D. Black, among others. So you see, the Leon

251
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:06,400
Black story just keeps getting deeper and deeper though quicksand

252
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,839
as a Holt and we talked about this months ago,

253
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,240
months and months and months ago, that Leon Black was

254
00:17:14,279 --> 00:17:17,079
in this up to his ears and that he has

255
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,319
some explaining to do. Now you add on the new

256
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:24,359
allegations against Leon Black. Oh yeah, oh boy is up

257
00:17:24,759 --> 00:17:26,720
up the creek right now without a paddle. There's no

258
00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:32,599
doubt about that. Throughout this period, apparently no one with

259
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,640
any authority, certainly not the university, not its former president Summers,

260
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,640
not its development office, not the dozen or so Harvard's

261
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:47,319
most elite, saw any inappropriateness in this ongoing academic relationship.

262
00:17:47,519 --> 00:17:50,559
And that right there says it all everybody involved, everybody

263
00:17:50,559 --> 00:17:53,079
that was around. If they're still there, if they're still

264
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:59,799
drawing these gigantic ass paychecks at this overpriced, once great university,

265
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:05,000
they should all be fired. A new broom sweeps clean.

266
00:18:06,839 --> 00:18:10,400
What they should do is get Morgan Freeman's character from

267
00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,759
that Stand By Me movie and have him show up

268
00:18:12,759 --> 00:18:20,319
at Harvard and whip these guys into shape. Despite the

269
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,000
obvious harm that a sex offender could trigger in the

270
00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:26,680
members of our community who themselves might have been victims

271
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,440
of sexual abuse, the elite of Harvard's elite continue to

272
00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:34,480
nurture a relationship with a sex offender. Yeah, because that's

273
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,039
what the elite do. I hate to be the bearer

274
00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:39,519
of bad news for anyone who holds these people up

275
00:18:39,559 --> 00:18:43,359
on high. But the so called elite, Yeah, that's a

276
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:49,720
class of sick ass people, a whole group of people

277
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,240
who literally have zero morals and who do not care

278
00:18:54,279 --> 00:18:58,519
about anything that does not increase their wealth or their power.

279
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,640
And that's not just me saying it. Their actions bear

280
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:08,079
it out. Despite the clarity of all of our views. Now,

281
00:19:08,279 --> 00:19:11,359
they apparently so saw no wrong in what all of

282
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,839
them were doing then, at least until chapter three, when

283
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,759
all worked diligently to forget what had happened between two

284
00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:23,880
thousand and eight and twenty and eighteen. Yo, Lessig is

285
00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,160
going hard in the pain here, he's leaving, He's really

286
00:19:27,519 --> 00:19:29,720
shooting from the hip and giving all of these guys

287
00:19:29,759 --> 00:19:32,680
the business as he should. It's about time so and

288
00:19:32,759 --> 00:19:37,839
at Harvard stood up and did the right thing. Harvard's

289
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,000
made twenty twenty reports celebrated Faust's moral clarity, but it

290
00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:48,079
identified some details that required further investigation. In March, Harvard

291
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:53,880
completed that determination. It did not release any public accounting. Instead,

292
00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:59,920
its conclusions were shared internally by email to the affected departments. Predictably,

293
00:20:00,279 --> 00:20:02,119
that email was leaked.

294
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:03,640
Speaker 2: And in this day.

295
00:20:03,519 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 1: And age, if you have some sort of explosive email

296
00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:11,599
and you're in a situation like at an institution like Harvard,

297
00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:13,799
you have to expect that the email is getting leaked.

298
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,599
So you better be on your game, beyond your p's

299
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,079
and q's, and say exactly what you want to say

300
00:20:19,079 --> 00:20:25,839
in that email. The effect was completely foreseeable. Airbrush from

301
00:20:25,839 --> 00:20:29,480
the history are the many Harvard luminaries who participated in

302
00:20:29,839 --> 00:20:34,039
and encouraged the ongoing relationship with Epstein after two thousand

303
00:20:34,079 --> 00:20:40,079
and eight. Left standing alone is noak ped's academic director.

304
00:20:39,839 --> 00:20:42,319
Speaker 2: Who is now to be disciplined.

305
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 1: And disciplined is in quotes, he's not wrong no act,

306
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:49,960
while should be, while you should be disciplined, and he

307
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,119
should be in big trouble for all of this, and,

308
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,680
like I said, lose his job. In my opinion, all

309
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,240
of these other people need to lose their jobs too.

310
00:20:57,519 --> 00:21:00,559
What's protecting them that they're a trustee, that they're so

311
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,000
called part of the elite. Enough already with these people,

312
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,440
and thus we the community are allowed the comfortable view

313
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,839
that Drew Foss got it right in two thousand and

314
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,240
eight and the university followed her lead, even if even

315
00:21:19,319 --> 00:21:24,119
if a very few among us apparently didn't get the memo.

316
00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:28,079
So kind of a cover right for Harvard here with

317
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,240
that statement, Oh, it's not the whole institution. We got

318
00:21:32,279 --> 00:21:35,720
it right with what Foss said, but there are still

319
00:21:35,799 --> 00:21:39,480
still some Yes, that doesn't cut it with me. Sorry,

320
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,559
everybody who was around, let me be very clear, everybody

321
00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:46,400
who was around, who was involved when Epstein donated that money,

322
00:21:46,839 --> 00:21:56,400
they all need to be fired. Yet this framing is absurd,

323
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,400
and its lie is revealed in the thinness of the

324
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:03,759
charges against Martin Noak because Noak has not been punished

325
00:22:03,759 --> 00:22:07,119
for associating with Epstein. How could he be when so

326
00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:11,599
many others from Harvard, much more famous and prominent, had

327
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,920
associated with Epstein as well, And again it comes back

328
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,319
to for me anyway, this is a Harvard problem, folks.

329
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,319
Something stinks at that university. And I wouldn't spend one

330
00:22:24,519 --> 00:22:28,000
red cent to send my child there, not one cent.

331
00:22:30,039 --> 00:22:35,240
It is absurd what occurred in those alleged hollowed halls.

332
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,920
Neither has he been punished because he asked Epstein to

333
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,720
help him address PDS funding needs by securing donations from

334
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,920
Epstein's friend Leon Black. How could he be when Harvard's

335
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:58,079
Development Development Office itself asked Novak to ask Epstein for help.

336
00:22:58,759 --> 00:23:01,960
And there's the rub of it, right, And he gets

337
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,480
to the heart of the issue, in my opinion, and

338
00:23:05,559 --> 00:23:08,720
that is everybody who is there, everybody involved, all of

339
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,240
these people that are hitting us with virtuous signaling. Okay,

340
00:23:13,799 --> 00:23:18,039
the virtue signaling has to stop by these people. Somebody

341
00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:20,839
has to take responsibility for what occurred. You're all making

342
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,720
big bucks and with that big money comes big responsibility,

343
00:23:25,079 --> 00:23:26,240
or it should.

344
00:23:29,759 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 2: Rather.

345
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,759
Speaker 1: Noak is being disciplined because of offenses that are plenty,

346
00:23:33,799 --> 00:23:37,400
not offenses at all, or that, when committed, were not

347
00:23:37,519 --> 00:23:42,759
viewed as anything more than simple mistakes. The most extraordinary

348
00:23:42,799 --> 00:23:45,359
of these is the charge and Faculty of Arts and

349
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,480
Sciences Dean Claudeine Gay's notification to Noak, which states that

350
00:23:50,599 --> 00:23:55,680
he exhibited profound negligence in misrepresenting the source of PEDS

351
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,720
matching funds to one of his funding sources, the Templeton

352
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:04,599
found Foundation. This is a gross misrepresentation in itself.

353
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree.

354
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,400
Speaker 1: Not a big fan of Claudine Gay or the way

355
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:14,359
she handled this, And to make Noak the scapegoat and

356
00:24:14,599 --> 00:24:18,000
the only one really getting punished is laughable considering we

357
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,680
know the relationship somebody like Larry Summers had with Jeffrey Epstein.

358
00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:25,599
If they were to sanction everybody at Harvard who had

359
00:24:25,599 --> 00:24:31,160
a relationship with Epstein, those would be some empty asshols, folks.

360
00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:37,000
The May Report had speculated this might have happened, but

361
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,640
no Axe. Emails with the Templeton Foundation revealed that the

362
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:44,640
precise words used to report his funding were actually requested

363
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:50,079
by the foundation. The Templeton Foundation was neither confused or misled,

364
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,799
meaning there could be no misrepresentation, so they knew nothing

365
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,519
was misrepresented to them. They knew exactly what they were

366
00:24:57,519 --> 00:25:00,319
getting into, they knew what the money was for, and

367
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:05,480
they knew where the money originated. They did not care.

368
00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:09,240
And that's really what it comes down to, That's what

369
00:25:09,319 --> 00:25:14,160
it boils down to. The balance is just as weak.

370
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,160
From the very start, Harvard knew Epstein treated PD as

371
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,720
a second office. According to the May twenty twenty report,

372
00:25:22,079 --> 00:25:24,720
Harvard knew as early as two thousand and six that

373
00:25:24,839 --> 00:25:29,240
Epstein even had his own phone. So again, Epstein has

374
00:25:29,319 --> 00:25:32,599
set up, got this office, Larry Summer sets that up,

375
00:25:32,839 --> 00:25:35,759
got himself a phone line. He's missed a big shit

376
00:25:35,839 --> 00:25:39,799
on the campus of Harvard. Now, yeah, I'm Jeffrey Epstein,

377
00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:43,799
college drop out, drop out here, drop out there, but

378
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:51,039
got myself a fellowship at Harvard. What an absolute joke,

379
00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:56,799
and what disrespect to the people who actually work hard

380
00:25:57,279 --> 00:26:02,759
for those fellowships. According to Noak, Summers walked with Epstein

381
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,480
as he secured access to ped's offices with his.

382
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:07,079
Speaker 2: Own key card.

383
00:26:07,799 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: Not once did he or the university say that this

384
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,759
access was wrong or must end. But now Noak is

385
00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:18,400
to be disciplined in part because PED gave Epstein a

386
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,519
different key card after the Harvard access system had changed.

387
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,759
So even after they changed the system, the access system,

388
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,160
even after you know, they updated the locks, they had

389
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,480
to make sure their boy Epstein was taken care of. Right,

390
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,319
They had to make sure their golden ticket was taken

391
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:40,000
care of. They had to make sure Jeffrey was all right.

392
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: Sure.

393
00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 1: I guess one could say that a university wide change

394
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,720
in security protocols was meant to signal to PED that

395
00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:54,799
it should stop granting Epstein access to the PED offices.

396
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:58,640
But wouldn't a memo from the administration have been a

397
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,400
clear and cheap way to send that message. Well, they

398
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,079
got money to burn there, obviously. I mean, with the

399
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:09,400
insane amount of money they charge the students, every single

400
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,680
toilet bowl should be gold plated. They should all be

401
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:18,039
eating five star meals every night in the commissary. And

402
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,000
you know, whatever the top Egyptian count sheets are.

403
00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 2: They got to have those.

404
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:33,319
Speaker 1: This is Harvard after all. Finally, Noak has to be

405
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,359
disciplined because the Center allowed Epstein's biography to appear on

406
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,640
ped's web page after Epstein's publicist requested it. Of course,

407
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,799
the story of Center benefactors commonly appear on Center web pages.

408
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:47,799
Speaker 2: Of course they do.

409
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: That's part of it, right, What do you think these

410
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,720
guys donate all of this money and they don't get

411
00:27:51,759 --> 00:27:58,680
anything on the flip back, of course they do, But

412
00:27:58,799 --> 00:28:02,000
during a period in which Harvard was inviting Jeffrey Epstein

413
00:28:02,039 --> 00:28:05,119
to the launch of its capital campaign and the most

414
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,359
elite of the elite at Harvard were regularly meeting with

415
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,200
Epstein at PED and around Cambridge. Fas blames Noak for

416
00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:16,319
failing to recognize that it was a misuse of the

417
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:20,720
Harvard dot edu domain to reveal Epstein as a friend

418
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:25,039
of PED. Wasn't wrong to take his money, okay, wasn't

419
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,759
wrong to use him as a benefactor, wasn't wrong to

420
00:28:27,759 --> 00:28:31,160
give him an office, But it was wrong to let

421
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:36,000
everybody know that all about saving face. It's never about

422
00:28:36,039 --> 00:28:38,759
the people who were affected. It's never about the girls

423
00:28:38,759 --> 00:28:40,680
who were abused, or anything like that.

424
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 2: You would think, with as much.

425
00:28:44,319 --> 00:28:47,359
Speaker 1: Involvement people from Harvard have, that they'd start their own

426
00:28:47,359 --> 00:28:50,279
sort of program here where they'd offer free courses to

427
00:28:50,319 --> 00:28:57,000
these gals. None of these offenses would have even been

428
00:28:57,079 --> 00:29:00,559
noticed but for Harvard's need to appear vigilant, if only

429
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:03,640
against one of the very many who continue to engage

430
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,960
Epstein at Harvard after two thousand and eight, that one

431
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,559
it's scapegoat. It was wrong for Harvard to continued any

432
00:29:12,599 --> 00:29:17,000
association with Epstein after two thousand and eight. No one

433
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,960
should be forced to live or work in an environment

434
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,160
that celebrates in any way a man who crossed this

435
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,319
critical line, or woman at that for that matter. Let's

436
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:29,319
be very clear, thirty eight percent of people who are

437
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,440
engaging in trafficking are women. All right, we went through

438
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,960
that report already.

439
00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:34,799
Speaker 2: But the point stands.

440
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: Nobody should feel uncomfortable at work, nobody should feel uncomfortable

441
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:47,119
at school. And this environment, I'll tell you what, not

442
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,839
an environment I'd want my people in. That's for sure.

443
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,039
Sex abuse is permanent, Its survivors carry its costs forever.

444
00:29:55,599 --> 00:29:58,319
All of them are entitled, at the very least to

445
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,400
an environment that does not trigger re traumatization. To have

446
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,000
suffered from the likes of an Epstein and then see

447
00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:10,960
Harvard's most elite most elite. Hanging with Epstein is to

448
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,880
add injury to insult. And that is a fact. That

449
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,799
is definitely a fact, and it's no different. Let's be

450
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,200
very clear with Kamala Harris hanging out with Bill Clinton.

451
00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:27,960
We have to be consistent here, right, None of these

452
00:30:28,039 --> 00:30:31,559
dudes should be given air to breathe if they're involved

453
00:30:31,559 --> 00:30:37,640
in this sort of thing, and this wrong is about

454
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,839
much more than funding. It's about the continuing relationship with

455
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,240
so many at Harvard. Our accounting for that is wildly incomplete,

456
00:30:46,839 --> 00:30:50,200
and it betrays the truth and a commitment to institutional

457
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:53,960
integrity to allow Harvard to stand as innocent while one

458
00:30:54,039 --> 00:30:58,400
faculty member went rogue. And look, I couldn't agree more

459
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,640
with what he's saying here, folks. I think that noac

460
00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:04,119
needs to be disciplined, needs to be punished.

461
00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 2: But everybody does.

462
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 1: I just want I want to drive that point home.

463
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,680
The story of Chapter two at Harvard is not the

464
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,759
story of one bad apple. It is of an institution

465
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:22,519
blinded by what money, brilliance celebrity from what seems to

466
00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:26,599
us now as an obvious moral truth. Of course, we

467
00:31:26,599 --> 00:31:29,160
were right not to take Epstein's money after two thousand

468
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,200
and eight, but we were deeply wrong to continue to

469
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,559
celebrate him at Harvard in all the ways that so

470
00:31:35,759 --> 00:31:42,359
many of the most prominent among us did. That is powerful,

471
00:31:42,759 --> 00:31:45,799
and he's calling to account all of his colleagues on

472
00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:50,839
campus who took part in refurbishing this guy's image and

473
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:59,200
helping him have this access. That wrong is not excused

474
00:31:59,279 --> 00:32:02,440
or hidden with the scapegoat. We need an honest accounting

475
00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:05,160
of that past and a plan for how Harvard will

476
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,359
avoid this failure in the future. Should all criminals be

477
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:14,039
banished always? Should particular criminals, those whose crimes particularly affect

478
00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:18,039
members of the Harvard community be banished always? And by

479
00:32:18,119 --> 00:32:21,720
always I don't mean for any purpose. An event at

480
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,480
which a criminal was asked to reflect on at least

481
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:28,039
some crimes or even offer his justification could be different,

482
00:32:28,519 --> 00:32:31,640
at least if properly framed, from a workshop in which

483
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,759
the criminal is just one more participant, celebrated only, or

484
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:41,720
especially because he happens to be rich. These are hard questions,

485
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:46,359
no doubt, especially in an age of tweet length attention spans. Boy,

486
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:48,359
can I get a clap from the back of the

487
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,720
room there? That is exactly the age we're in, the

488
00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:57,079
attention span of a tweet. But it betrays our tradition

489
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:02,200
to hide from these more complicated questions because some might misunderstand.

490
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,720
We are a university that openly and eagerly engaged with

491
00:33:06,759 --> 00:33:10,119
the child sex predator, not just before he was convicted,

492
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:14,720
but long after. How did our culture allow this to happen?

493
00:33:15,319 --> 00:33:18,000
And how can we now allow this failure to be

494
00:33:18,039 --> 00:33:23,960
obscured by scapegoating. Just one yes, Harvard's virtue has been

495
00:33:24,079 --> 00:33:28,079
signaled to anyone blind to what actually happened right here

496
00:33:28,119 --> 00:33:31,680
among us. But the vice of what happened, the open

497
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,759
and regular engagement with a sex offender, has not been

498
00:33:35,799 --> 00:33:43,319
reckoned here. It is that which Harvard must finally account for, openly, fairly,

499
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:52,359
and honestly. Well, folks, there you have it, somebody finally

500
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:57,640
connected to Harvard, somebody with a serious voice on campus

501
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:04,200
calling his colleagues to account. If you'd like to contact me,

502
00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:08,159
you can do that at Bobby Kapuchi at ProtonMail dot com.

503
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,159
That's b O B b y c A p U

504
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,360
C c I at ProtonMail dot com. You can also

505
00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:18,159
find me on Twitter at b O B B y

506
00:34:18,599 --> 00:34:22,559
underscore c A p U C c I. All of

507
00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:25,119
the links that go with this episode can be found

508
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:26,559
in the description box