WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:01.320 Hey guys, it's Jack. 2 00:00:01.360 --> 00:00:03.439 I just wanted to talk to you today about a 3 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:06.120 way that you can help support the podcast if you're 4 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:09.720 not already to support the channel is to become a 5 00:00:09.759 --> 00:00:13.480 Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that started just 6 00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:16.199 five dollars a month, and when you sign up, you 7 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:20.000 get access to all of our episodes add free. That's 8 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:22.079 the big bonus for that. I mean, we also do 9 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:26.600 some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers, but this is 10 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:29.399 the biggest and best way that you can support the 11 00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:34.079 Teamhouse channel and podcast if you'd like to, and we 12 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:36.600 really appreciate that, So go and check us out at 13 00:00:36.640 --> 00:00:39.240 patreon dot com slash the Teamhouse. 14 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:44.079 Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of Iizon and I'm 15 00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:46.280 going to jump right to the chase. We've got Jack 16 00:00:46.359 --> 00:00:50.159 back on along with the customary in Criminals, both the 17 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:55.240 d and Jason. Jack welcome aboard. I'm not going to 18 00:00:55.359 --> 00:01:00.439 use up your star space here by blabbing, So talk 19 00:01:00.479 --> 00:01:03.799 to us, man. What do you what are your thoughts? 20 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:07.519 My thought what like about life? 21 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:11.319 Or yeah this is your arena? 22 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:13.560 Jack, what do you think about the state of masculinity 23 00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:14.799 in the United States today? 24 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:19.000 You know, Okay, you're talking to that's the wrong Jack Murphy. 25 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:20.799 You need to go talk to the other guy, that's 26 00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:22.719 and he'll help you out with that. 27 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:26.200 I forgot we had d on the show. Okay. Let's yeah, 28 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:30.560 I mean, let's start with current affairs. You know, yes, Saurah, 29 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:33.799 Mick and Mark on recently you know, events in the 30 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:35.239 the least. 31 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:39.920 Yeah, I mean, I mean all of you guys have 32 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:42.040 seen what's going on in the papers, and you know 33 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:47.400 I follow it too, and you know, my, my, my 34 00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:51.200 thought about it is that there are, yes, some like 35 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:54.760 really impressive operations that the Israelis have pulled off over 36 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:58.719 the last month or so. Definitely did a lot of 37 00:01:58.760 --> 00:02:02.280 disruption of terror now works, definitely took some chess pieces 38 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:06.680 off the board and set has Belah back probably at 39 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:10.759 least a few years. And all that is is quite impressive. 40 00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:13.879 But on the other hand, I also can't help but 41 00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:16.719 think about the War on Terror and that we did 42 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:20.360 that for twenty years and still lost the war. At 43 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:22.879 least we lost in Afghanistan, in Iraq. I mean, we 44 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:24.879 protected America thankfully, But. 45 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:33.439 That's that's. Yeah. If you don't have. 46 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:35.319 Any political the problem remains. 47 00:02:35.919 --> 00:02:38.639 Yeah, if you don't have a political solution that you're 48 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:41.400 aiming towards, that there's a there has to be a 49 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:45.080 political resolution to the conflict. Then I mean, you keep 50 00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:47.719 killing people all day, every day. And the Israelis have 51 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:50.000 experienced this too. I'm not telling them anything they don't 52 00:02:50.039 --> 00:02:53.840 already know. You know, they've been down this road many times. 53 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:57.960 And I mean, maybe you know it sounds crass, but 54 00:02:58.039 --> 00:03:01.639 I mean maybe it really is just a delaying strategy 55 00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:03.960 and like, you know, we're trying to delay this a 56 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:08.599 few more years until hopefully a political resolution presents itself, 57 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:12.080 because otherwise it doesn't seem like they really have like 58 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:15.199 a long term strategy here. And I hear all of 59 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:18.439 these people kind of talking out their ass about how 60 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:24.240 like Hezbollah is finished, They're done, this is over, Like no, no, no, 61 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:27.439 this is not over. This is the this is the beginning, 62 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:28.000 not the end. 63 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:34.759 Yes, the taken taken individually, I mean, these these moves 64 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:39.719 have been have have certainly been debilitating, the kind of 65 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:44.719 interesting and as the story emerges on, you know, both 66 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:46.919 the Patrio attack and Walkie Tolkah attack and then the 67 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:52.000 subsequent assassinations going off to the headquarters there in Beirut, it. 68 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:55.000 It seems that this wasn't so much part of the 69 00:03:55.000 --> 00:04:00.919 widest strategy as kind of uh long targetsubupit tunity. You know, 70 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:04.520 they had been targets of opportunity for a while, but 71 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:09.960 now seemed like the right opportunity combined. But the real 72 00:04:10.080 --> 00:04:12.479 kicker here, I think, and this is why everyone is 73 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:16.639 obviously on the edge of their seat the invasion part. 74 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:21.519 The incursion part was the really controversial part. You know, 75 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:25.720 the Nettan Yahoo's generals had offered, had argued the separately 76 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:30.360 for it back in October. We're perhaps less confident now, 77 00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:37.160 but did did push for an incursion using just special 78 00:04:37.160 --> 00:04:41.279 operations forces? But to your point, at some point they 79 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:42.279 have to withdraw. 80 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:45.319 Right I mean that, Yeah, this happened in what nineteen 81 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:47.920 eighty three and then again in two thousand and six. 82 00:04:47.839 --> 00:04:53.160 I recall, yep, yeah, this will be the third Lebanon War. 83 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:59.319 And of course, and of course Israel has a very 84 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:04.040 painful lega see from the eighty two through two thousand one, 85 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:06.399 two thousand and two invasion, and you know, it was 86 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:08.480 kind of their Vietnam and it was and it was 87 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:12.000 the first time Israel was was shown in the role 88 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:17.399 of Goliath rather than David. But anyway, I'm sorry, lot, 89 00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:21.040 but but my point is, ah, yeah, I agree with 90 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:23.759 you one hundred percent. And and the real, the real 91 00:05:23.839 --> 00:05:28.360 sensitive part is the withdrawal, Right, what happens after you 92 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:31.000 because you've got to you either stay either an occupy 93 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:35.639 or you withdraw these guys the and and that is 94 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:39.600 what what is left behind is going to be the 95 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:43.000 tough part. Israelis don't you know, they don't believe in 96 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:45.720 and clear and hold and build the way we do. 97 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:50.160 They you know, they clear, and they rely, they clear, 98 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:52.439 they hold briefly in their ally on other people to 99 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:55.560 come in and build afterwards. And and that I think 100 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:59.720 is the opportunity for the you know, hate say international community, 101 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:03.120 but it really is. To your point, his ballers hold 102 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:07.439 on Lebanon has been weakened significantly for the first time 103 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:11.720 perhaps in a couple of decades. This would perhaps be 104 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:16.680 the time to finally enforce you know, UN resolution seventeen 105 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:21.839 oh what is it, seventeen oh one? I think, yeah, 106 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:26.480 finally right, And and for the Lebanese government to to 107 00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:30.519 kind of get a grip and move ahead as an 108 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:34.040 independent sovereign entity free of his pot you know, this 109 00:06:34.160 --> 00:06:38.120 sounds naive, but my point is this is the only opportunity, 110 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:41.480 the greatest opportunity Lebanon the international community has had, and 111 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:44.079 Israel's not going to follow. You know, Israel's not going 112 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:50.560 to build this. We us international community should be ready 113 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:55.480 to otherwise. Otherwise it's a third Lebanon War, and there's 114 00:06:55.519 --> 00:06:57.439 going to be a fourth, and a fifth and a sixth. 115 00:06:59.560 --> 00:06:59.800 Yeah. 116 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:03.879 Unfortunately, my view at the moment leans towards the latter option. 117 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:06.519 But like I said, this isn't the end, it's the beginning. 118 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:12.360 And we haven't even talked about the relatives of the 119 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:17.160 forty thousand or so casualties in Gaza. You know, they 120 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:21.360 that that's the one thing that we sometimes forget, we 121 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:24.480 don't factor in an encounterinsurgency, is that we're not you know, 122 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:27.000 we're not dealing with statistics. We're dealing with human beings. 123 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:30.199 And for every dead person who is a family member, 124 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:34.240 there are there are waves of anger and retribution. We 125 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:37.000 mirror image in other ways, but we don't mirror image 126 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:39.680 our enemy or the civilian population and that way and 127 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:43.560 realize the depth of anger that we are creating. I say, 128 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:44.959 we you know, because we've done this. 129 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:49.120 Yeah, No, people get upset sometimes when I pointed out 130 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:53.000 it's a controversial issue, I get it. But what has 131 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:55.519 happened in Gaza over the last year is going to 132 00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:57.319 haunt Israel for the rest of its days. 133 00:07:57.360 --> 00:07:57.680 I think. 134 00:07:57.879 --> 00:08:02.279 I don't think there's any They've moved the corner. They 135 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:04.800 went around a corner in several different ways. I mean, 136 00:08:04.839 --> 00:08:08.759 what happened in October seventh chattered israel sense of security 137 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:13.399 maybe forever, and then the response in Gaza, and that's 138 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:16.120 something that's going to haunt Israel for a very long time. 139 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:26.560 Yes, certainly, I think it's I think it's changed Israeli's 140 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:32.039 perception of themselves. You know, it's undermined. There was always 141 00:08:33.440 --> 00:08:38.519 there's always this feeling of of kind of the plucky. 142 00:08:38.320 --> 00:08:41.240 Nation right with right on the right, Yeah, the underdog. 143 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:44.360 Yeah. And I think in the eyes of the number 144 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:47.799 of Israelis, that's been tested. But it doesn't matter that 145 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:52.000 it's been tested, because fear has caused them, the whole, 146 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:56.720 the whole country, to to you know, really solidify on 147 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:01.480 this base that is to the outside well rather alaming. Right. 148 00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:09.240 This looks pretty extreme and it certainly obviates any potential 149 00:09:09.320 --> 00:09:14.039 for a two state solution, you know the way that. 150 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:16.480 Yes, we've never been further away from that than now. 151 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:21.799 I think the whole topic of normalization in the Middle 152 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:25.679 East between Israel and Arab countries period has been fractured. 153 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.480 You know, that was it was looking pretty good for 154 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:30.320 a while there a few years ago. But I think 155 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:34.879 this might might have started to call some cracks. I mean, 156 00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:37.000 that could be wrong on that, but that's what it seems. 157 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:41.039 Well, that's one of the arguments, right, that the Iranians 158 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:45.200 wanted October seven to happen in order to spike the 159 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:49.440 normalization of relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, and Saudi 160 00:09:49.480 --> 00:09:53.240 Arabia of course being Sunni, Iran being Shia. That's like 161 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:55.399 the Cold War of the Middle East, right, that those 162 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:57.399 two nations are kind of pitted against one another. 163 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:01.840 Yeah, I mean, to be you know, to be sure 164 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:05.399 and to be very clear for everyone, no crocodile tears 165 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:10.720 for his Bala or as Rahsrala. I mean, yes, I mean, 166 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:13.639 we're all delighted that the organization is on the ropes. 167 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:17.480 The question here is is it part of a bigger strategy? 168 00:10:17.720 --> 00:10:20.679 And if not, then his Bolla will return and will 169 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:24.399 return probably stronger than before, because that is that that's 170 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:26.679 you look through the site. It doesn't matter who's been 171 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:29.519 leading his bolla, that is what has happened in the past. 172 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:34.919 Yeah, what a mess. 173 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:40.159 On that note, though, what's what's going on? I was 174 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:43.080 going to say, from what a mess to on that note, 175 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:46.000 what is what's going on in your life? Jack? But 176 00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:50.320 I do want to say that because I think that 177 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:54.039 our audience doesn't get enough of you. In fact, a 178 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:57.080 lot of a lot of our unfanned mail, you know, 179 00:10:57.159 --> 00:10:59.759 beyond Hey, why you guys are we want to see 180 00:10:59.840 --> 00:11:02.600 LEVI is we want to see more of Jack. 181 00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:03.159 I don't. 182 00:11:03.279 --> 00:11:05.639 I don't think you get those emails. I think that's 183 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:06.000 a lie. 184 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:06.600 Uh. 185 00:11:10.679 --> 00:11:13.240 I just got back last week from a trip to 186 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:15.799 Kyrgyzstan in Kazakhistan. 187 00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:18.960 That was really fun. I was over there. 188 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:27.159 Hiking, horseback riding, cruising around Bishkek and Almadi. There's a 189 00:11:27.200 --> 00:11:29.559 real eye opening trip, a lot of fun. Like I'd 190 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:31.720 love to go back. I'm actually hoping to go back. 191 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.120 You went to Kugaskan on vacation. 192 00:11:36.039 --> 00:11:38.519 Yeah, basically, I mean my girlfriend is from there, so 193 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:41.480 I mean I had a pretty squared away tour guide. 194 00:11:42.159 --> 00:11:49.200 Yeah, Okay, yeah, excellent. You tried out the horse's milk es. 195 00:11:49.399 --> 00:11:53.559 Yeah, yeah, I drank the fermented horse milk. It was awesome. Uh, 196 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:59.480 partook in the manly sports of horseback riding in the mountains. 197 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:02.320 Yeah, all of that, nice. 198 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:07.279 Bare chest did So anyway, welcome, welcome back from that. 199 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:08.679 What are you thanking? 200 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:14.120 And well, let's see, uh where I've been reading this 201 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:18.240 new book, David mccloskey's new spy novel, The Seventh Four. 202 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:22.600 We're gonna have him on the team house. Not this week, 203 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:27.919 I think next week we have him coming up. Interesting guy. 204 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:29.399 He was a CIA analyst. 205 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:32.399 And oh and then the other thing too. 206 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:36.519 So hey, so that book is, uh, it's a novel. Check. 207 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:38.720 Yeah, yeah, it's a novel. 208 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:44.320 Mkolsk was a CIA analyst and he's written three spy novels, 209 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:48.200 Damascus Station, Moscow X, and this new one that just 210 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:52.840 came out, The Seventh Four. I wasn't a huge fan 211 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:55.639 of Damascus Station, didn't really do it for me, but 212 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:58.639 I did. I really enjoyed Moscow X. That was a cool, 213 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:02.159 cool novel. And the Seventh Floor is a is a 214 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:03.399 counterintelligence story. 215 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:06.600 It's a mole hunt. And I've been enjoying it so far. 216 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:12.639 And so what about the agency? How Jason, of the 217 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:15.919 these books, I mean, are they well acclaimed within the 218 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:16.960 agency or are they? 219 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:20.519 Honestly, I have to I check them out. 220 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:21.000 I haven't. 221 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:24.440 I've heard of McCluskey, but I haven't read the book. 222 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.279 So but I'm sure if it made it to the 223 00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.200 past publication review. 224 00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:33.159 That you know, do they have to do that even 225 00:13:33.200 --> 00:13:34.519 for fiction. 226 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:39.600 Yeah, because you can still insert uh, you know, methods 227 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:43.840 and procedures in there, you know, under the guise of fiction. 228 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:45.759 So yeah, it still has to go through. 229 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:50.120 It's a very good book. The Moscow action is incredible. 230 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:56.120 Yeah, now that whole review protests took nine months to 231 00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:57.720 my book. I was going to say, I was going 232 00:13:57.759 --> 00:13:59.000 to ask you how long years too? 233 00:13:59.200 --> 00:13:59.399 Yeah? 234 00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:04.399 Yeah, I got it was. I can say that it 235 00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:06.200 was bogged down by the intel community. 236 00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:07.240 Yeah, yeah. 237 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:07.399 Did. 238 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:09.080 I was going to ask, like, did you have to 239 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:10.720 just submit it to d O D or did it 240 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:12.120 have to go through other agencies? 241 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:12.440 Also? 242 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:15.679 It went It starts at the at d O D 243 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:18.559 and then it goes and then they you know, so 244 00:14:18.639 --> 00:14:21.840 I know, I know they sent they sent a copy 245 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:25.879 to anyway, it doesn't matter. They sent it to different agencies, 246 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:28.000 and they sent it within d O D to dev 247 00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:31.159 group and and you know, any any organization that might 248 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:34.879 have been and so any organization can come back and say, hey, 249 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:39.320 we want this to be redacted. And I was lucky 250 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:42.679 I got away with some minor I thought were quite 251 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:46.039 minor points. But I've been careful writing the book. I thought, 252 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:50.120 you know, I wrote a lot about signals intelligence targeting, 253 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:54.320 and I knew everything that I wrote there was precedent 254 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.720 in open source, you know, which because that's the only 255 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:01.519 way to do this right. There's no you know, you 256 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:03.120 don't want to be you don't want to be ice 257 00:15:03.159 --> 00:15:08.519 breaking when it comes to releasing information. So you know, 258 00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:10.200 I'd look at, okay, can I write about that? And 259 00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:13.279 I'd find somewhere where it was written about, which is laborious, 260 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:15.639 but it got me through the final check. And actually, 261 00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:19.440 there's a huge amount out there in open smace information 262 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:23.720 about targeting methodology and signals and diligence. There is no 263 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:26.399 I mean, most people would agree there's very little you 264 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:28.440 cannot learn from open source intelligence. 265 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:32.039 I have a friend of mine written novels and he 266 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:34.639 had to submit to both d O D and CIA, 267 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:40.440 and they ended up killing basically killing his series, you know, 268 00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:45.200 because both D O D and CIA wanted the first look, 269 00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.399 and he's like, I can't give both agencies the first look. 270 00:15:49.440 --> 00:15:50.360 That's not possible. 271 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:52.639 It was like basically they found a bureaucratic way to 272 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:53.720 stop him from writing. 273 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:57.360 Yeah, now, Jack, with your books, did you have to 274 00:15:57.399 --> 00:15:58.320 go through a reviewer? 275 00:15:59.799 --> 00:15:59.960 No? 276 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:01.919 Oh, I didn't put any of my books through a review. 277 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:06.000 I put an article I wrote through D O D 278 00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:11.559 review once. I'll never do it again. It was absolutely 279 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:13.639 it's absolutely a political process. 280 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:16.960 And I had a lawyer going to them. 281 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:20.279 I mean it was bizarre because I'm showing them point 282 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:23.080 by point, like how is it that you cleared this 283 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:28.799 information here in this publication, but suddenly it's reclassified again 284 00:16:28.840 --> 00:16:32.440 when I'm writing the exact same thing, Like it's politics, 285 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:32.919 it's not. 286 00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:35.480 It's not about that starting information. 287 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:40.320 It's exactly. It becomes for its critics, it becomes the 288 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:45.480 facto censor ship. Yeah, and what Jack's talking about, Uh, 289 00:16:45.559 --> 00:16:49.799 it is something that is has been kind of validated 290 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:53.080 by a series of lawsuits against DO O D where 291 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.120 law authors had said, how come you block me for this, 292 00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:59.879 but now you released it here and there's certainly is 293 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:03.279 a perception that if you are being critical of D 294 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:05.799 O D in your book, you're going to get a 295 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:09.079 much mo harder ride when it comes to getting play 296 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:10.000 it ful security. 297 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:13.480 And my, my, the article I submitted was very pro 298 00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:16.200 us army. It was like, good job, boys, you know 299 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:17.440 you've done well. 300 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.400 That's that's why it made people suspicious? 301 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:26.839 And what else was I going to say on that though? 302 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:30.880 But yeah, yeah, the review process is bullshit. 303 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:35.519 So you're about to show us the book in the background. 304 00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:36.279 Oh yeah. 305 00:17:36.359 --> 00:17:39.480 So the other thing I've started working on, it's in 306 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:45.480 the nascent phases, is uh, I haven't read any of 307 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:49.440 these books yet, but these are books about the military 308 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:53.920 liaison mission in Berlin or in the Cold War, these 309 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:58.720 ones too. So this is my like full winter reading 310 00:17:58.759 --> 00:18:01.640 that I'm i gotta get on. So the military liaison 311 00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:04.720 mission was under like I think it was under the 312 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:09.079 Four Powers Agreement that governed Berlin after the end of 313 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:13.559 World War Two. The way Germany was chopped up was 314 00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:19.400 that you know, American, French and British military liaisons in 315 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:23.279 uniform in an official vehicle could go and drive into 316 00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:29.160 Communists held East Germany, and the Soviets could do the same, 317 00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:31.519 they could come over to our side and do the same, 318 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:35.920 just sort of like a as like an inspection to 319 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:41.039 make sure everyone's following the rules basically, but those openings 320 00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:44.599 were used for all manner of espionage by both sides. 321 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.119 And I've been talking to some of the Special Forces 322 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:51.720 guys who were assigned to the Military Liaison mission, and 323 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:56.920 there is some epic, epic stories that I don't think 324 00:18:56.920 --> 00:18:59.720 I've ever been written about before that I'm looking forward 325 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:04.759 to chronicling a lot of stuff like stealing Soviet military 326 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:09.599 technology and then reverse engineering it, putting guys up across 327 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:14.480 the border and getting pictures of tactical ballistic missiles that 328 00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:15.720 weren't supposed to be there. 329 00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:18.400 Dudes actually like getting up. 330 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.039 Under the tarp and crawling into like the brand new 331 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:24.519 T seventy two tanks and taking like in there, taking pictures, 332 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:26.480 like just really cool stuff. 333 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:29.519 So that's that's something I'm working on right now. 334 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.119 I guess a lot of that was pretty it very 335 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:36.039 you know, I don't know if it was classification levels 336 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:38.480 at the time, but you know, it's kind of also 337 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:42.079 eclipsed by what was going on in Vietnam. But that 338 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:45.160 I mean that the story the stories you've been you've 339 00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:51.279 been recounting and researching at being really fascinating. Yeah, who knew, 340 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:53.319 because you know, I was still at the COBOL. Must 341 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:56.759 have been a really boring time. I mean, it was 342 00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:59.079 a boring time I was there. Thank you, Phil. I've 343 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:04.000 done a pang about my knee jack. It was so soil, 344 00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:07.039 the paper's chained to the wall. But it was generally 345 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:09.440 a very boring time in the military. So when whenever 346 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:12.839 I see Cold War, you know, Cold War whatever, except 347 00:20:12.839 --> 00:20:15.720 for Cold Wall's Spy obviously those books are interesting Cold 348 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:19.559 War Warrior, I'm like, uh, you know, how boring. Uh, 349 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:22.039 But but you you know, if you you bring up 350 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:27.960 a like a genre that's not not well known, but yeah, 351 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:31.200 kind of at the core of our ethos. 352 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:33.640 Right, I mean, the probably probably the reason why I'm 353 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.799 still doing this job. Like what have I been working 354 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:39.640 this for like twelve years or something like that, thirteen 355 00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:42.480 years is I mean, there's always something new to learn, 356 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:46.680 There's always something interesting and surprising. And like the article 357 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:48.880 I was complaining about that I submitted to d O 358 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.680 D Review that was about Special Forces Detachment A in Berlin, 359 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.960 and I wrote that and I was like, Okay, I 360 00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:00.640 unraveled the mystery and then said, only the m L 361 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.400 E thing lands in your lap. And it's like, oh shit, 362 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:06.920 there's all this other stuff going on. There's there's always 363 00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:11.480 more and more, you know. My I wrote a I 364 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:14.920 wrote a book that's coming out in December that's going 365 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.000 to have a huge amount of Special Forces history that's 366 00:21:18.039 --> 00:21:24.119 never been published before. And one chapter is Detachment A. 367 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:27.960 Another chapter is about Detachment K in Korea, and then 368 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:32.079 blue Light Green Light, and then the Commander's in Extremist Force. 369 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:36.119 And I just added like five more pages to the 370 00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:41.480 manuscript about the creation of C three seven, which was 371 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:45.720 Seventh Group's fifteen down in Panama, and there's a whole 372 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:49.400 epic story about how they they got stood up and 373 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:54.880 did some chicanery to get the facilities and weapons that 374 00:21:54.920 --> 00:21:56.400 they needed to do that job. 375 00:21:57.160 --> 00:21:57.720 Pretty cool. 376 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:02.599 So yeah, I ended up just this was before just Cause, 377 00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:07.599 so this would have been ninety eight. So the tasking 378 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:10.400 for C three seven, I believe came in seventy seven, 379 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:13.240 and I think they finally got it up and running 380 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:16.720 in nineteen eighty. They got like a year extension to 381 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:19.279 get that going. So like all this stuff is happening 382 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:23.119 in tandem with the creation of Delta Force and these 383 00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:26.440 other counter terrorism capabilities. You know, they're trying to do 384 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:28.680 these stand these elements up at the same time. 385 00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:31.240 What are they using a sem model? 386 00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:39.160 Well, yeah, that's interesting. So Charlie Beckwick absolutely was using 387 00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.759 the SAS as the model for Delta Force. Hence why 388 00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:47.680 they have squadrons and troops and so on. When when 389 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:50.279 when they stand they stood up? C. 390 00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:51.039 Three seven. 391 00:22:51.960 --> 00:22:56.559 Colonel Chuck fry who is the Battalion commander of third Battalion, 392 00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.839 seventh Special Forces Group at the time, he called up Charlie, 393 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:02.799 who he had served with in Vietnam and asked, hey, 394 00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:06.000 do you have any lessons learned, like best practices as 395 00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:09.400 I as I stand up this this counter terrorism element 396 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:15.880 in seventh Group. And Colonel Frye reports that Charlie told 397 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:18.839 him fuck off, Fry and like hung up the phone. 398 00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:22.880 That was that so and so and so it began there. 399 00:23:22.759 --> 00:23:24.119 Right, Yeah. 400 00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:29.359 So a lot of the Special Forces counter terrorism capabilities 401 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:34.519