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do it there. Thank you. I want to welcome everyone

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back to the Pekanona Show. Filos is back for another

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profile of a well let's say this time the person

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will might be a little more likable. How you doing follows?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing very well, Pete.

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Speaker 1: Thank you all right? Who you got for us today?

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Speaker 2: The man is named James Forrest Stall. You probably haven't

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heard of him. Most people haven't. He was this country's

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first secretary of Defense. If you have heard of him,

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it's because he died under very suspicious circumstances. But more importantly,

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the official narrative about him, which is a suicide, is

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often credited to his overwork and his extreme sense of duty.

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But I don't believe that to.

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Speaker 1: Be the case.

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Speaker 2: However, it's important not just to look at this man

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through the circumstances of his death, going backwards. We want

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to look at his entire life to understand how his

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end happened and also to make sense of it.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, yeah, I think most people may have

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heard a conspiracy podcast here or there talking about his

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demise and how it may have been connected with a

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certain program. But I think the is a more likely

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it's a more likely scenario that played out there. So

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where do you want to go? Where do you want

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to go from here?

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Speaker 2: So I want to start out from the jump and

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say that this man, unlike Bernard Baruch, who we discussed earlier.

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This man is a bona fide hero what he did

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during World War One and World War Two. I think

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whether it was a murder or a suicide, I think

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this man gave his life for his country. And I

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think that we are just going to start right at

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the beginning, and by the time we get to May

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twenty second, nineteen forty nine, you'll have a pretty good

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idea of who he is. So I'm going to start

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with a few of my sources that I used for this.

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The first is the Forestall Diaries that were published in

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nineteen fifty one by his personal aid who worked for

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him during World War Two. There's also a book called

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The Death of James Forestall, which came out in the

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early two thousands, which alleges that he was murdered. And

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there's an additional book that came out. It's called The

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Assassination of James Forestall, and that one came out in

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the late nineteen fifties, and it was put out by

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a publishing company called Western Isles, which was the publishing

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arm of the John Birch Society. So people had suspicions

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about the nature of his passing. Very early on shortly

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after his death. But I'm going to start with his life.

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So James Forrestall was born in eighteen ninety two to

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an Irish Catholic family. At the time this was not

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the most powerful demographic in the United States. But regardless

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of his middle class life. He entered Dartmouth on his

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own merit in nineteen eleven and he transferred in nineteen

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twelve to Princeton. He was voted most likely to succeed

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by a wide margin in his senior year at Princeton,

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and he was on the student council and was chairman

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of the Princetonian. And he left Princeton one credit short

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of graduation. It's never really explained in any of the

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sources why he decided to leave Princeton, and I'm not

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going to speculate, but he did not encounter failure. After

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leaving Princeton, he took a job with the Tobacco Products

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Corporation selling cigarettes, and then in nineteen sixteen he entered

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the investment banking house of William A. Reid and Company,

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which later became Dylan Reading Company, where he made his

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business career. And one thing that I'd like to stress

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from the outset here is that every endeavor that he

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sets his mind to, he achieves tremendous success. This is

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a very smart, motivated, and disciplined deman. So in nineteen seventeen,

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the United States has drawn into World War One and

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Forrestall despite his intelligence and his Princeton credentials, even though

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he doesn't have a degree, he chooses to enlist as

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a basic seaman in the US Navy. He then transfers,

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due to his own merit, to the aviation branch, which

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was in its infancy in World War One. Recall from

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the episodes that Stormy put out that the first Yale

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Unit and other American gentry were in the process of

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founding naval aviation at this time, and at the time

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they were drawing the best and the brightest of their

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generation in this country to be a part of these units.

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So this was not something that a regular Joe Schmoe

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could get into since there was not much infrastructure and

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training for naval aviation in the US at the time.

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He was trained in Canada with the Royal Flying Corps

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and he was passed as a ensign I believe Naval

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Aviator number one hundred and fifty four in the Navy,

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and he returned to the United States to receive his commission. Now,

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the Navy got wind of his accomplishment here and his

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motivation and decided that due to his business credentials, he

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was best suited at the Office of Naval Operations in Washington, DC,

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and so he worked at a desk job and made

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first lieutenant by the armistice at the end of World

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War One. So this guy did not see any combat

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in World War One, but very very smart, and this

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country took tremendous advantage of his talents. So after the

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war he goes back to Dylan Reading Company and has

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a meteoric rise. He makes partner in nineteen twenty three

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and was a vice president just three years later. By

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nineteen twenty six, and then by nineteen thirty eight, at

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the age of forty six, he becomes the president of

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Dylan Reading Company, and that's an incredible rise. Throughout his

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life and business career, he was known for helping numerous

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young men through college without them knowing of his financial

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assistance for them, and they gave away a tremendous amount

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of his wealth during his lifetime, but he never made

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this information public or capitalized on it in any way,

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either politically or in the media. So very hard working

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makes it to the top of this company. And he

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could have just stayed on Wall Street for the rest

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of his life. He'd done his service in World War One.

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There was really not a bigger obligation that was necessitated

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of him, you know, there was no external pressure on him.

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But the more that I read about the man, the

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clear it became that he had a very he had

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a very strong moral compass, and he had a great

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deal of honor. In June nineteen forty, FDR personally extended

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him an invitation to join the administration because in nineteen

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forty of May FDR called for the rearmament and war

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production to resume at a tremendously accelerated pace. Sorry I'm

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using tremendously too much. This required a big cooperation of

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large industrial and financial interests. So Forrestall was named one

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of the secret six special administrative Assistants to FDR that

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were expected to have complete loyalty, and in his diaries

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he describes it as a passion for anonymity. On August

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of nineteen forty, he was named the first nd Secretary

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of the Navy. So to clarify this, similar to Bernard Baruch,

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the interplay here between the industrial activity during wartime and

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also the nature of the military warrants an explanation here.

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So as this role, he is the connecting point between

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the military demand and the civilian production for the Navy.

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By nineteen forty five, the Navy had added twelve hundred

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major combatant ships, including ninety nine aircraft carriers. Between nineteen

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forty one and nineteen forty five, we doubled the number

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of submarines, cruisers, and destroyers. In total, the size of

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the Navy increased six times its pre war numbers. So

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he's managing this enormous administrative task by man managing production inventory,

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he's cutting through the red tape of existing Navy bureaucracies,

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and he's expanding the shipbuilding industry. And if that was

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all he had done, that would have been great. But

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he doesn't stop there. He's not a desk jockey for

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this time around in World War Two, and this is

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what I think sets him apart as a hero. In

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nineteen forty one, he flies personally to London to deal

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with the British about the lend lease system in nineteen

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forty two, after the Bottle Battle of Guadalcanal, he went

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to the South Pacific. In nineteen forty four, the active

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Secretary of the Navy dies and so he is promoted

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upward to be the Secretary of the Navy, very powerful position.

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Speaker 1: At this time.

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Speaker 2: And in this capacity, in nineteen forty four, he goes

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to the kuwajial In Atoll to observe the Pacific offensive,

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and this I think is the most spectacular part. On

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February twenty third, nineteen forty five, he goes to the

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active Battle of Ewajima and he lands during the amphibious

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assault operation with the Marines to expect the Japanese pillboxes

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and fortifications. He doesn't land with the first wave. He

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lands about five or six hours after the initial landing.

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But if you know about the Battle of Jima, it

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was the bloodiest in Marine Corps history. And he went

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up the beach with them, watching them throw grenades into

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these pill boxes and inspect the fortifications and the damage

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to understand their needs. And he watches the Marines raise

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the flag at Mount Suribachi in that famous photograph that

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you see of the Marine Corps of the flag being hoisted.

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That's actually the second flag which is photographed. The first

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flag that was raised was given to mister Forrestall by

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the marines there. So I just want to help that

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paint a picture of the kind of man that he

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was and the way that he worked for this country

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purely selflessly to both procure resource and also to understand

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the warfare in which he's fighting.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: To compare it to the earlier episode with mister Baruch,

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I mean, Baruch goes after all the fighting's done, right,

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he goes after the war is basically over, and he

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walks around with the general staff and then gets back

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on a plane and goes home. But mister Forrestall takes

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a different route and he's there with the Marines that

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are enlisted on the ground as a veteran himself. And

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so I think that's a that's a very powerful thing.

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And to make it analogous to modern times, I can't

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imagine our current secretary of Defense doing something like this.

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Speaker 1: So do we even know who that is? I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I mean for two months, I don't think he knew

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who he was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I apparently it's such an important position now that

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you can disappear for you know, a couple months at

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a time, and you know, I mean like a like

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a congresswoman did recently where they found her in a

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in an Alzheimer's facility where she had been for six

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months or something like that. We we got a good

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system going here. We should definitely do everything we can

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to preserve it.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure that she was actively voting and commenting on

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all the issues, and that it wasn't her staff running

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the voting tallies or committees or anything important like that. Yeah,

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I'm sure, I'm sure this is all fine. It makes

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I hate to get emotional, but when you compare the

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caliber of man that you know, walk to the beach

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on you Rejima to our current bureaucrats, I mean, it's

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it's endlessly frustrating to see something like this, and when

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you kind of watch Forrestall's downfall, it really starts to

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explain how we went from one type of man to

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the other.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, i mean, you're you know, if you're if

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you're raising a flag and then you take it down

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and you're you know, you would expect it to go

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to commanding officer or something like that. But no, when

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to know, somebody went to you know, generally what would

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be considered a politician. Yeah, that says something about the

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probably the the regard the command held him.

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Speaker 2: In exactly, and there was no I mean even at

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the time, there was not an expectation that that's something

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that he would do. But you know, the man never

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shirked duty throughout his entire life. I want to pivot now,

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and that's kind of a general biography. You can get

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all this stuff on Wikipedia. That's not the remarkable part.

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The information that I'm going to relay is mostly political

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and refers to kind of the state of international relations,

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the power players politically, and all of this material. The

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source that I'm using is his diary, and a lot

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of this will kind of sync up very nicely with

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the material you've previously talked about with World War two

241
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and Thomas and the Marshall Plan, the Morgenthal Plan. There's

242
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a lot that kind of becomes clear here. On August

243
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twenty fifth of nineteen forty four, right at this point,

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Forrestall's back in the United States. Henry Morgenthal, who was

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the Secretary of the Treasury, he walked in with FDR

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to a cabinet meeting and he said that he was

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very unhappy with an army report stating how to allocate

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food to the Germans after the conclusion of the war.

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Secretary Morgenthau stated that the Germans should have a subsistence

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level of food. As he put it, soup kitchens would

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be ample to sustain life, that otherwise they should be

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stripped clean. Secretary Forestall objected to this because Secretary morgenthal

253
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received this report from one Colonel Bernstein without going through

254
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proper army channels. Secretary of State Cordel Hull did not

255
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go to the Quebec conference, and he was frustrated that

256
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Morgenthau did. As Secretary of Treasury, especially with the Morgenthau Plan.

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Hull was reportedly so angry with this plan that he

258
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,119
threatened to resign when Morgenthu's plan was chosen by FDR.

259
00:17:24,759 --> 00:17:28,039
Secretary of War John McCloy stated that the Morgenthau plan

260
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called for the quote conscious destruction of the economy in

261
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:37,079
Germany and the encouragement of a state of impoverishment and disorder. So,

262
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,000
I mean Forrestall was very frustrated with this, and you're

263
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beginning to see a split in the Cabinet of how

264
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things are going to go after the war, and how

265
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Germany's going to be treated. I have no doubt that

266
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Forrest All viewed Germany and Japan as adversaries like most

267
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other men of his generation. But there is a humanity

268
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about this. I don't think that he wanted Germany destitute.

269
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He realized that it was a big problem, because, as

270
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I'll get into, he is beginning to really perceive the

271
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Soviet Union as a threat. And I can prove this

272
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because on September second, nineteen forty four, Forrestall wrote a

273
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letter to his friend Palmer Hoyt quote, I find that

274
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whenever any American suggests we act in accordance with the

275
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needs of our own security, he is apt to be

276
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called a goddamned fascist or imperialist. While if Uncle Joe

277
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,480
referring to Joseph Stalin, suggests that he needs all the

278
00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:42,359
Baltic provinces, half of Poland, all of Bessarabia, and access

279
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:47,359
to the Mediterranean, all hands agree that he is a fine, frank, candid,

280
00:18:47,559 --> 00:18:50,640
and generally delightful fellow who is very easy to deal

281
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with because he's so explicit in what he wants.

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Speaker 1: And then this familiar this sounds familiar in the modern day,

283
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where if you're America first, America first is fine as

284
00:19:07,079 --> 00:19:10,319
long as it's not really America first. It's America and

285
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,680
our greatest ally, and if you say anything bad about

286
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:20,640
our greatest ally, then you start hearing what great, how

287
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,880
great they are. We couldn't survive without them.

288
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Speaker 2: One thing that becomes very clear to me as I

289
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,920
was doing research for both Forestall's life and Bruf's life

290
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:35,480
is that throughout the Roosevelt and Truman administrations there was

291
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a very specific program coming from the executive and if

292
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:44,200
you weren't with it, you were destroyed. That was very clear.

293
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:52,079
And more evidence of this split between Forestall and other

294
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,079
members of the cabinet occurs. On November twenty third, nineteen

295
00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,720
forty four, Forestall talked with Harry Hopkins. If you've been

296
00:20:01,759 --> 00:20:03,839
listening to the Peak Winona show, you know who Harry

297
00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:08,920
Hopkins is. He oversaw the lend Lease arrangement. Forrestall said

298
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,480
that the United States should have a civilian side joint

299
00:20:11,559 --> 00:20:15,039
chiefs of staff because at the time the British were

300
00:20:15,079 --> 00:20:20,519
resisting the American position. During Adolph Burrell, the Assistant Secretary

301
00:20:20,519 --> 00:20:26,319
of State, his trip to the Air Conference for British rights. Well, simultaneously,

302
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,920
the United States was having Morgenthau give the British billions

303
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,480
of dollars in lend lease, so to make that more concise.

304
00:20:34,319 --> 00:20:37,880
Forrestall was extremely concerned that at the conclusion of the war,

305
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,039
as they're starting to divvy up the structure of power

306
00:20:41,839 --> 00:20:47,240
in money after the war, that the United States is

307
00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:53,960
giving Britain tons and tons of money well not acquiescing

308
00:20:54,000 --> 00:21:00,200
to the US position on certain airspace rights. And this

309
00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:03,200
is very important because you know, there has to be

310
00:21:03,279 --> 00:21:07,680
kind of a quid pro quo that occurs here in diplomacy,

311
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,880
and that it's not you can't just take the US's

312
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:15,480
money and screw it. But again, if you're listening to this,

313
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,480
this is a pattern that occurs again and again. March fourth,

314
00:21:20,559 --> 00:21:24,279
nineteen forty four, he writes in his diary specifications for

315
00:21:24,319 --> 00:21:27,079
a presidential candidate. This is a little bit lighter. It's

316
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:31,720
a little levity here. His first specification was looks, the

317
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,119
second was height, the third was legal or political background,

318
00:21:35,599 --> 00:21:38,799
the fourth was desire for the job, and the fifth

319
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:45,480
was political experience. So these are ranked ordered on March thirteenth,

320
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,920
nineteen forty four, he goes to the Alta Conference Prime

321
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,559
Minister Winston Churchhill. This is his direct quote. Seems to

322
00:21:53,599 --> 00:21:56,640
be going through some sort of a menopause. He talks

323
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,599
with great eloquence and meetings, but did not follow up

324
00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:03,599
in some quincessions where substantive matters were dealt with the

325
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:10,680
same vigor. Continuing on. In April of nineteen forty five,

326
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:15,599
Fdr dies and Forrest I'll writes something down very curious

327
00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:20,279
in his diary when mister Truman. President Truman is sworn in.

328
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,400
His only active omission was a failure to raise his

329
00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:27,400
right hand when he was repeating the oath with his

330
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:30,480
left hand on the Bible. The Chief Justice had to

331
00:22:30,519 --> 00:22:33,880
indicate to him that he should raise his hand. Under

332
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:39,960
the circumstances. It gave dignity and firmness. So there's a

333
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,680
lot going on in his diaries where you have to

334
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,880
read in between the lines. And the more that I

335
00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,079
learned about mister Truman, the more I have an increasing

336
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:54,759
disdain for him. He cleaned out Roosevelt's cabinet, even very

337
00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:58,519
qualified man, and after his reelection he brought in a

338
00:22:58,519 --> 00:23:02,480
lot of his Missouri friends and eventually forced out forestall

339
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,599
but I'm getting ahead of myself here. On May one,

340
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,119
nineteen forty five, he writes in his diary, how far

341
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,440
and how thoroughly do we want to beat Japan? In

342
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,279
other words, do we want to morgan thau those islands?

343
00:23:17,799 --> 00:23:21,319
Do we want to destroy the whole industrial potential? And

344
00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:23,720
there's a few other times where he uses morgan thou

345
00:23:23,799 --> 00:23:29,880
as a verb to mean render a country economically wasted.

346
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,599
I want to get a little bit into the communist stuff,

347
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,599
because at this time it's starting to become more and

348
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:39,319
more important.

349
00:23:39,319 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: In his diaries.

350
00:23:41,079 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 2: On May twenty eighth, nineteen forty five, forest All contacts JD.

351
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:50,240
Gerhover to go after one Lieutenant Andrew Roth, who was

352
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:56,079
furnishing seventeen hundred classified documents to the communist newspaper I'm Easia,

353
00:23:57,039 --> 00:23:59,640
and he was also a member of the Communist Party.

354
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:04,160
He advocated for his arrest. Additionally, something else that he

355
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:09,799
did was ordered an inquiry into incompetence among the General

356
00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:14,960
staff during the December seventh attack on Pearl Harbor in

357
00:24:15,039 --> 00:24:19,119
nineteen forty one, and he felt that the general staff,

358
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:23,039
after the investigation was concluded and avertict was rendered, were

359
00:24:23,079 --> 00:24:26,319
actually let off too easy. You have to consider his

360
00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,799
position as Secretary of the Navy, that you know, regardless

361
00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:34,200
of it being a surprise attack, a significant amount of

362
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:39,000
US forward station ships in the Pacific were destroyed at

363
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,960
this time, and so Forrest All believed there should have

364
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:50,119
been more accountability for this at the staff level. So

365
00:24:50,279 --> 00:24:55,640
very anti communist, very competent man. In July of nineteen

366
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,240
forty five, although not officially a part of the Potsdam Declaration,

367
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,400
he flew privately to Germany with a young future president,

368
00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:07,480
John F. Kennedy, who is the son of Joseph P. Kennedy,

369
00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:13,599
the former ambassador to Great Britain. The war wraps up

370
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,599
Truman as president. This is where I'm going to start

371
00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:21,440
to veer out of the diaries a little bit because

372
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:28,400
the John Birch Society stuff about Forrestall and also other

373
00:25:28,519 --> 00:25:32,599
inquiries into his life began to bring more attention to

374
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:40,119
Forrestall's anti communist activities. So in December of nineteen forty six,

375
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:46,160
Senator Joseph McCarthy first came to Washington, and, according to

376
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,079
sources in his book McCarthyism, The Fight for America. In

377
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:58,039
nineteen fifty two, Navy Secretary Forestall personally opened McCarthy's eyes

378
00:25:58,079 --> 00:26:02,039
to the mass infiltration of communists into our govern government,

379
00:26:02,559 --> 00:26:09,079
but also named names. Let's see here. When asked directly

380
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,799
by a anonymous Birch Society guy who was talking with McCarthy

381
00:26:13,799 --> 00:26:18,960
in the early fifties, Senator McCarthy replied, the answer to

382
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:24,400
both questions is yes. Forestall told me he was convinced

383
00:26:24,559 --> 00:26:27,039
that General Marshall was one of the key figures in

384
00:26:27,079 --> 00:26:32,039
the United States in advancing communist objectives. And as an

385
00:26:32,599 --> 00:26:37,039
international relations side note, James Forrestall was also the sponsor

386
00:26:37,079 --> 00:26:42,160
of George Kennan's Long Telegram and Mister X article. If

387
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,039
you know anything about international relations and kind of their

388
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,119
history of the early World War, these were the gold

389
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,839
standard in setting the US policy towards the Soviet Union

390
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,759
and represented a significant shift in the country becoming more

391
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:01,279
anti communist after World War Two. So I didn't know

392
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,359
that James Forrestall was behind the sponsorship of Kennan's work,

393
00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:08,079
But the more I dig into it, the more I

394
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:12,319
can confirm of it. I want to talk now. I

395
00:27:12,319 --> 00:27:14,759
want to shift a little bit to Israel, because this

396
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,000
is what did him.

397
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 1: Men.

398
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:21,519
Speaker 2: Inasmuch as I can say, let's see do you have

399
00:27:21,519 --> 00:27:23,920
any questions up until this point, I know I've been

400
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:24,519
going a while.

401
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,039
Speaker 1: No, no, this is where it starts to get interesting,

402
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:30,599
all right.

403
00:27:31,599 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 2: From his diary December one, nineteen forty seven, I remarked

404
00:27:36,519 --> 00:27:39,079
that many thoughtful people of the Jewish faith had deep

405
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:43,200
misgivings about the wisdom of the Zionist's pressures for a

406
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,160
Jewish state in Palestine. I also remarked that the New

407
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,319
York Times editorial of Saturday morning point up those misgivings

408
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,680
when it's said many of us have long had doubts

409
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,960
concerning the wisdom of erecting a political state on the

410
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,000
basis of religion, I said, I thought the decision was

411
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,000
fraught with great danger for the first future security of

412
00:28:04,039 --> 00:28:10,160
this country, meaning the United States. December third, nineteen forty seven.

413
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,480
So now, just as a date as a chronology reference point,

414
00:28:14,839 --> 00:28:19,079
Israel the state was established on May fourteenth, nineteen forty eight,

415
00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:22,960
So we're leading into the run up for how that

416
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:30,480
decision transpired. December third, nineteen forty seven. Two administrative assistants

417
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,880
to the President were chiefly responsible for the decision, the

418
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,640
decision being whether to recognize the state of Israel upon

419
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:43,880
its creation both had told President Truman that Dewey was

420
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,759
about to come out with the statement favoring the Zionist

421
00:28:46,839 --> 00:28:50,440
position on Palestine, and that they had insisted that unless

422
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,839
the President anticipate this movement, New York State would be

423
00:28:53,880 --> 00:29:00,720
lost to the Democrats. I asked James Burns, Truman of

424
00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:03,920
Secretary of State, who had resigned in January nineteen forty seven,

425
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,200
what he thought of the possibility of getting Republican leaders

426
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,519
to agree with the Democrats to have the Palestine question

427
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:15,119
placed on a non political basis. He wasn't particularly optimistic

428
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,640
about the success of this effort because of the fact

429
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:23,279
that Rabbi Silver was one of Taft's closest associates the Senator.

430
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:28,240
Senator Taft followed Silver on the Palestine hypha question. I said,

431
00:29:28,279 --> 00:29:31,119
I thought it was a most disastrous and regrettable fact

432
00:29:31,359 --> 00:29:34,440
that the foreign policy of this country was determined by

433
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,559
the contributions a particular block of special interests might make

434
00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:44,920
to the party funds. So we're starting to see how

435
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,599
much the Zionist lobbying effort to politicians was beginning to

436
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:54,799
pay off on both the Republican and the Democratic side.

437
00:29:55,000 --> 00:30:00,799
Now I should add that Forest Stahl's interests were anti Communists,

438
00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:04,359
and I couldn't find anything in his diaries, all fifteen

439
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,759
hundred pages of it, that were anti Semitic in any way.

440
00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:10,519
There was never anything negative he ever said about Jews,

441
00:30:10,759 --> 00:30:13,960
despite whatever bs was contrived about him after his life.

442
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:20,559
His interest was geopolitical. Here's a demonstration of this. January sixth,

443
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:25,279
nineteen forty eight, he ate breakfast with mister B. Brewster Jennings,

444
00:30:25,599 --> 00:30:29,640
president of Socony Vacuum of New York. This company later

445
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,680
became Mobile Oil Company and was known today as Exon Mobile.

446
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,599
Mister Jennings noted that multiple oil companies had stopped oil

447
00:30:40,599 --> 00:30:43,799
production in Saudi Arabia because of the disturbed condition in

448
00:30:43,839 --> 00:30:48,559
Palestine and the indications of its continuance. I express it

449
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:51,319
as my opinion that unless we had access to Middle

450
00:30:51,359 --> 00:30:54,599
East oil, American motor car companies would have to design

451
00:30:54,599 --> 00:30:58,480
a four cylinder motor car sometime within the next five years.

452
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,759
That's a nificant downgrade. Most car engines in the United States,

453
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,039
if not all, at the time, were V eights, with

454
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:13,559
some V six's. V four. Four cylinder engines were really

455
00:31:13,599 --> 00:31:17,240
not used except in like motorcycles, boats, farm machinery. This

456
00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:19,279
is not something that was used in cars at the time,

457
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,519
so he was very concerned that like the skyrocketing oil

458
00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:27,559
prices and the problems here would cause significant geopolitical risk

459
00:31:27,599 --> 00:31:32,839
to the United States. A month goes by February third,

460
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,960
nineteen forty eight, he meets with FDR Junior, who came

461
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,359
in with a strong advocacy of the Jewish state and Palestine.

462
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,400
FDR Junior says to Secretary Forrestall that we should support

463
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,319
the United Nations decision and in general abroad across the

464
00:31:49,359 --> 00:31:53,039
board statement of the Zionist position. I thought it was

465
00:31:53,119 --> 00:31:56,759
about time that somebody should pay some consideration to whether

466
00:31:56,799 --> 00:32:01,039
we might not lose the United States. The same day,

467
00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:05,079
in nineteen forty eight, he goes to have lunchist Bernard Baruch,

468
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,680
who you haven't heard it yet, I recommend you check

469
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:13,119
out the earlier episode about him. Baruch took the line

470
00:32:13,119 --> 00:32:15,839
of advising me not to be active in this particular matter,

471
00:32:16,119 --> 00:32:18,160
and I was already identified to agree that it was

472
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,000
not in my own interests. With opposition to the United

473
00:32:21,079 --> 00:32:24,559
Nations policy on palesign, Baruch said he himself did not

474
00:32:24,599 --> 00:32:27,640
approve of the Zionist's actions but in the next breath

475
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,440
said the Democratic Party could only lose by trying to

476
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,240
get our government's policy reversed, and said it was a

477
00:32:33,279 --> 00:32:36,440
most inequitable thing to let the British arm the Arabs

478
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,200
and for us not to furnish similar equipment to the Jews.

479
00:32:41,279 --> 00:32:45,039
Then later this afternoon, Okay, the Israel thing is very

480
00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:48,759
much on his mind. He goes to meet with Winthromp Aldrich,

481
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:55,759
the chairman of Chase National Bank. Mister Aldrich said that

482
00:32:55,759 --> 00:32:59,039
he was very sympathetic to Forrestall. However, it would be

483
00:32:59,039 --> 00:33:02,359
best for him to leave the decision to Secretary of

484
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:07,920
State George Marshall and John Foster Dulles. On May fourteenth,

485
00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:12,519
nineteen forty eight, the United States recognizes Israel. At this

486
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,559
point in the diaries, mister Forrestall's assistant notes that the

487
00:33:16,599 --> 00:33:19,839
President and White House staff had taken Palestine out of

488
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,240
the hands of the State Department, just as they had

489
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,759
taken the military budget out of the hands of the

490
00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:30,759
Defense Department at the National Security meet Council meeting that day.

491
00:33:32,039 --> 00:33:34,039
This is now a later point. He doesn't let the

492
00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:37,160
Israel thing go once the country is created. He's very

493
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,240
concerned about it. At the National Security Council meeting on

494
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,720
October twenty first, nineteen forty eight, Forrestall spoke with apparent

495
00:33:45,799 --> 00:33:50,640
asperity of another disconnection in our policy meeting. Mister Forstall

496
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,839
referred to the State Department request for four to six

497
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:57,240
thousand troops to be used as guard forces in Jerusalem,

498
00:33:57,359 --> 00:34:01,880
an implementation of the Bernadotte Plan for Palestine. Mister Forrestall

499
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,440
said that actually, our Palestine policy had been made for

500
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:10,000
squalid political purposes. He hoped that someday he would be

501
00:34:10,039 --> 00:34:13,760
able to make his position on this issue clear. And

502
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,239
at this point, I want to bring up something. When

503
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,480
mister Forrestall was checked in for mental health reasons into

504
00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:25,639
a clinic and eventually the events occurred that led to

505
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:30,679
his death, he ordered his assessment to retain copy of

506
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:35,440
fifteen handwritten diaries at the White House in storage because

507
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,639
he wanted to keep them safe upon his release after treatment.

508
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,599
So I want to just say that statement again. He

509
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:47,000
hoped that someday he would be able to make his

510
00:34:47,079 --> 00:34:53,719
position on this issue clear. And let's see here, at

511
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,119
this point he's so anti Zionist that he's starting to

512
00:34:57,159 --> 00:35:00,480
get negative press attention, a lot of it from a

513
00:35:00,519 --> 00:35:07,400
fellow called Drew Pearson and primarily a gossip colonist named

514
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:12,639
Walter Winschell, and their objective seemed to really go beyond

515
00:35:12,679 --> 00:35:16,239
getting him out of the government. They really wanted to

516
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:23,199
destroy his reputation. Forrestall was thinking about making plans to

517
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,599
leave because Truman was reelected in November nineteen forty eight,

518
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:32,480
and Truman got rid of most of the FDR carryovers,

519
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:36,800
and Forrestall was not getting along well with the Missouri

520
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,800
cronies that Truman had put in his cabinet and in

521
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:46,960
high political offices. Forestall met with President Truman and he

522
00:35:47,039 --> 00:35:49,519
agreed that he would leave the government on May first

523
00:35:49,519 --> 00:35:54,320
of nineteen forty nine, But unbeknownst to Forrestall, on March fourth,

524
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,920
nineteen forty nine, Truman made the abrupt announcement that Forrestall

525
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,039
was going to be replaced by a West Virginia lawyer

526
00:36:01,119 --> 00:36:04,840
named Lewis Johnson, the man who had been Truman's main

527
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,239
fundraiser during the campaign and also a person for whom

528
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:15,199
Forrestall had very little respect. There was also additional opposition

529
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,840
from a guy named David Niles within the cabinet. He

530
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,000
was another one of the few people that was carried

531
00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:27,800
over from Roosevelt to Truman, and he disliked Forestall intensely.

532
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,159
One thing that's interesting about Niles as a cabinet level

533
00:36:31,199 --> 00:36:34,360
official was that, according to Venona papers, he worked with

534
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,360
the NKVD to smuggle people from Mexico to the United States.

535
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,039
And he also worked with Harry Hopkins. And he was

536
00:36:42,079 --> 00:36:47,000
also the longest serving White House aid. Very interesting, right,

537
00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:50,199
the forces that are starting to move against Forestall, and

538
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,519
this is all documented, and so I want.

539
00:36:53,400 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: To Pearson Drew Pearson, not the wide old wide receiver,

540
00:37:01,159 --> 00:37:08,119
but the American columnist, quaker Walter Winschel, Russian Jewish immigrant parents.

541
00:37:08,559 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 2: Yep, all of them, all of them. I was astonished

542
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,440
when I was reading this in the account, and I

543
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,960
want to. And now we're going to get to like

544
00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:22,760
a very this is going to be dark and to

545
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,920
make it YouTube friendly. Just stop me if I say

546
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,079
anything that I shouldn't for whatever terms.

547
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,599
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't care about I don't care about

548
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:33,360
YouTube anymore. They demonetize me, they go fucked themselves.

549
00:37:33,199 --> 00:37:37,039
Speaker 2: Fair enough, all right, So we now get to a

550
00:37:37,119 --> 00:37:40,760
very pivotal question. And this is the reason that people

551
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:46,960
know of Secretary Forrest all I think it is it

552
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:50,159
is a tragedy that he is known for how he

553
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,639
died and the life that he lived and the work

554
00:37:54,679 --> 00:37:57,800
that he put in for this country. I want to

555
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:02,480
just advance the mainstream of how he died, and then

556
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,519
I'll go into what I think is the true reason

557
00:38:04,679 --> 00:38:12,199
that he died, because I want a differentry between possibility

558
00:38:12,199 --> 00:38:18,920
and probability. Right, it is possible that he kills himself

559
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:28,320
in nineteen forty nine, the man was, so I have

560
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:33,559
to think about how I do this. Nineteen forty nine

561
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:38,000
comes around, He's been pushed out of government. He had

562
00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:44,679
tirelessly worked for five years straight, regularly working fifteen hour days,

563
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:49,440
and in this entire timeframe he takes one three day vacation.

564
00:38:50,599 --> 00:38:53,800
So it is possible that he worked himself into a

565
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,840
state state of total exhaustion and depressing, and that all

566
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,320
of the people around him, all these new cabinets people

567
00:39:00,639 --> 00:39:05,079
are destroying his reputation and they are harassing him, they

568
00:39:05,079 --> 00:39:08,360
are writing negative press about him, and all of his

569
00:39:08,519 --> 00:39:13,679
effort was being shit on by people who really should

570
00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:17,320
have appreciated what he had done for this country. And

571
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,840
this was not an easy task to be named as

572
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,679
the first Secretary of Defense to walk us through as

573
00:39:24,679 --> 00:39:28,599
a country the first years of the Cold War, and

574
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,519
I doubt anyone else put in his position would do

575
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,639
anywhere near as good a job as he would. But

576
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,079
I think that no matter how you look at it,

577
00:39:38,119 --> 00:39:40,000
even if his death was a suicide, it is an

578
00:39:40,079 --> 00:39:45,840
abject tragedy and a stain on this country for a

579
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,599
hero to die in this way. But I don't think

580
00:39:50,599 --> 00:39:52,599
that it was a suicide. And I'm going to go

581
00:39:52,639 --> 00:39:57,280
into the evidence for why that is. So he voluntarily

582
00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:59,639
checks himself into mental health treatment.

583
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 1: And.

584
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 2: I don't I've never been to a psych word. But

585
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:09,920
when you're in a mental health hospital, I guess in

586
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:14,239
the late forties, people have visitation rights. Some people can

587
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,159
visit you, some people can't. The determination of how that's

588
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,519
made is done at the hospital, and they can turn

589
00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:24,679
away people for whatever reason and admit people as.

590
00:40:24,519 --> 00:40:25,079
Speaker 1: They see fit.

591
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 2: Now you would think that if you're in a mental

592
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,119
health hospital, you know, if you're not a psych word

593
00:40:32,119 --> 00:40:35,239
whatever you want to call it, for treatment, you want

594
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,199
people to visit you that help you and care about

595
00:40:38,199 --> 00:40:41,239
you and will bolster you up, and that people that

596
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,440
you don't like or people that aggravate, you stay the

597
00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,719
fuck away, and the opposite happened. And this is where

598
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:57,440
it gets fascinating. So who was denied visitation to see

599
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:02,239
mister Forrestall when he's receiving treatment. Well, two Catholic priests

600
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,400
were denied seeing him. And you know who wasn't denied

601
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:13,440
visitation His Secretary of Defense successor who he hated, Lewis Johnson,

602
00:41:14,159 --> 00:41:18,840
his aide. Forrestall's aide who compiled his diaries had described

603
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:22,960
him as an overly ambitious troublemaker. Forrestall had told the

604
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,840
aid that Johnson was incompetent and felt degraded at the

605
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:28,719
very idea of being replaced by.

606
00:41:28,599 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 1: Such a man.

607
00:41:30,159 --> 00:41:33,199
Speaker 2: Other visitors who he was not on good terms with

608
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:40,559
include President Truman himself and one Congressman Lyndon Bain Johnson.

609
00:41:41,559 --> 00:41:44,239
LBJ was known in nineteen forty nine, even at this

610
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:49,119
time as being very pro Zionist. Right, So all of

611
00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:56,800
these Zionist people are meeting with Forestall after having pushed

612
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,599
the man by.

613
00:41:58,519 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 1: The way, LBJ was also so close with Drew Pearson yep.

614
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,199
Speaker 2: And but don't take don't take my word for it.

615
00:42:07,639 --> 00:42:10,239
On May twenty third, nineteen forty nine, the Washington Post

616
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,719
write article headlined after he died because they're they are scum.

617
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:20,199
Excuse me. Delusions of persecution, acute anxiety and depression marked

618
00:42:20,199 --> 00:42:25,079
Forrestall's illness. Quote from the article. His fear of reprisals

619
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:28,519
from prosionists was said to stem from attacks by some

620
00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:32,119
columnists on what they said was his opposition to partition

621
00:42:32,559 --> 00:42:35,519
of Palestine under a UN mandate. In his last year's

622
00:42:35,519 --> 00:42:39,960
Defense secretary, he received great numbers of abusive and threatening letters.

623
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:44,400
And I'm I'm going to go into the details here

624
00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:47,280
and uh, you know, I will leave you to make

625
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,320
up your mind whether it's a murder or a suicide.

626
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,480
At one f am on Sunday, May twenty second, nineteen

627
00:42:54,559 --> 00:42:58,400
forty nine, James Forrestall died at the National Naval Medical

628
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,519
Center in Bethesda, Maryland. At the time, Forrestall was under

629
00:43:02,639 --> 00:43:07,760
more liberty of movement and less supervision. In the last sorry,

630
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:13,320
I already said that James's brother, Henry Forrestall, states that

631
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,960
either the Communists or the Jews did him in. And

632
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,559
I want to go through some material facts about the

633
00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:23,199
night of his murder or suicide, and I want to

634
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,559
add that there are multiple books that have been written

635
00:43:25,599 --> 00:43:28,760
on this and that if you look them up you

636
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:35,199
will see very convincing evidence. The guard that was, you know,

637
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,000
a guard, was on duty to watch him, check in

638
00:43:37,039 --> 00:43:41,920
on him every fifteen minutes. The guard was new, only

639
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,320
having been on duty for a few months, replacing the

640
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,400
usual guard who was supposedly a wall on a drunken bender.

641
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:50,360
There was a central witness in the case who was

642
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,440
named in the book, but I'm leaving him anonymous. His

643
00:43:53,559 --> 00:43:56,719
daughter sent the author of the book on the Assassination

644
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,719
of James Forestall this email in twenty seventeen. I started

645
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:03,079
reading your article on the forest All death. I got

646
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:07,519
to the part about X's story being irrelevant. He was

647
00:44:07,559 --> 00:44:09,199
my father, and I can tell you he lived in

648
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,159
fear of something happening because of information he knew about

649
00:44:12,159 --> 00:44:16,159
the case. Even up to a year prior to my

650
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,599
father's death, he had called me and was in fear

651
00:44:18,639 --> 00:44:21,559
that he was going to be questioned again about the issue.

652
00:44:21,639 --> 00:44:23,760
It might have been irrelevant to you, but it was

653
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,559
not irrelevant to my family. It was always a shadow

654
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:29,760
in our lives. So he dies on May twenty second,

655
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,719
nineteen forty nine. I believe there's sort of a cover

656
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:37,159
up here. What makes me suggest that, Well, you see,

657
00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:42,840
the day before James's brother, Henry, calls the hospital to

658
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,320
arrange picking up James Forrestall. You see, he's recovered by

659
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,559
this point and he's getting released the next day. And

660
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:52,880
he dies on the same day that his brother has

661
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,960
a train ticket booked to come and pick him up

662
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,480
from the hospital. It's probably not something you're going to

663
00:44:58,519 --> 00:45:03,760
find in the Wikipedia article. I'm sorry, just it's tremendously

664
00:45:05,519 --> 00:45:09,719
it's upsetting. You know, they denied the man priests to

665
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,440
come and visit him and made him forced him to

666
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,079
meet with people that he didn't like when he was

667
00:45:15,119 --> 00:45:16,920
in a tremendously weakened state.

668
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:25,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, the denial of the denial of clergy is I mean,

669
00:45:25,079 --> 00:45:26,400
that's just straight up evil.

670
00:45:26,559 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, doctor Rains. The attending physician stated that mister Forrestall

671
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:37,840
had never made a suicidal gesture or a suicidal attempt.

672
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,199
Forrestall was confirmed asleep at one thirty am by the

673
00:45:41,199 --> 00:45:44,320
attending guard, and when the guard checked again, was also

674
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:49,000
asleep at one forty five am. So we mean to

675
00:45:49,199 --> 00:45:51,840
understand the nature of his suicide that he wakes up

676
00:45:52,639 --> 00:45:56,519
between one forty five and one fifty, goes outside of

677
00:45:56,519 --> 00:46:02,559
his room, goes downstairs, ties his bathrobe code cord around

678
00:46:02,599 --> 00:46:07,239
his neck. And this is unbelievable, the manner in which

679
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:12,840
they describe him dying. He tries to hang himself, buy

680
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,719
his bathroom cord around his neck, tied to the radiator,

681
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,079
while jumping out of a sixteenth story window. Now, I

682
00:46:20,119 --> 00:46:23,079
want to pose something to you, which is I think

683
00:46:23,159 --> 00:46:25,239
you would either hang yourself or you would jump out

684
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,199
of the sixteenth story window. It doesn't make a lot

685
00:46:28,199 --> 00:46:30,679
of sense that you would try to do both, and

686
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,199
that you would be able to do it within five

687
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:38,400
minutes of waking up, confirmed by the witness statement, and

688
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:43,719
that you know the day of your release from the hospital.

689
00:46:44,599 --> 00:46:47,920
These are very strange details that do not add up.

690
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,920
And I can't say it with certainty because we're never

691
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:52,880
going to know for certain.

692
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:56,039
Speaker 1: But one other.

693
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,639
Speaker 2: Fact that I'll add here at the height of the

694
00:46:59,639 --> 00:47:05,519
Palace on controversy, his limo was followed to and from

695
00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:08,719
his office by a blue sedan containing two men. When

696
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,440
the police were notified in the Sudan apprehended, it was

697
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:13,920
discovered that the two men were photographers employed by a

698
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:17,159
Zionist organization. They explained to the police that they had

699
00:47:17,159 --> 00:47:21,039
hoped to obtain photographs of the limousines occupant entering or

700
00:47:21,119 --> 00:47:24,159
leaving an Arab embassy in order to demonstrate that the

701
00:47:24,199 --> 00:47:29,719
official involved was in close contact with Arab representatives. There's

702
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,400
one other piece of evidence that I want to go

703
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,960
over here. I'm not sure if this is something you

704
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:43,559
can share or not. The handwriting samples I can describe,

705
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:44,280
I have those.

706
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: I'll I'll download them real quick from where you send

707
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:48,320
them to me, and I'll share them.

708
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. But for the audience that could be

709
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:56,880
listening to this, there are two handwriting samples that are

710
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:01,320
confirmed of his. One is from a Western Union telegram,

711
00:48:01,519 --> 00:48:05,000
which represents a short script or something that you do

712
00:48:05,039 --> 00:48:07,320
over a very brief period of time, and the second

713
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,440
is a handwritten letter to President Truman on a Secretary

714
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,119
of the Navy letterhead, signed by him. These are two

715
00:48:14,199 --> 00:48:19,159
documents which are confirmed with his signature. And then the

716
00:48:19,199 --> 00:48:23,599
other thing that is included below is a poem transcription

717
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:28,119
purportedly found in his vacated room. Now, I'm not an

718
00:48:28,119 --> 00:48:33,800
expert on handwriting, but I would argue logically that if

719
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:37,360
you look with even an untrained eye between the telegram

720
00:48:37,639 --> 00:48:40,800
and the letter and the purported suicide note that it

721
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,119
is not the same person writing this. For those listening

722
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:48,920
the script, the capital letters are different. That's okay. So

723
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:51,760
what you're seeing now that is his, That is his

724
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:56,480
handwriting on the Navy letterhead. It's straight, the letters are neat,

725
00:48:56,519 --> 00:49:02,360
the font is consistent. And if you change it to

726
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,599
perhaps the note or the other.

727
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,599
Speaker 1: One, change it to the other one real quick.

728
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 2: Okay, this is like a short form telegram. Okay, this

729
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,480
is something he's writing really quickly, so you know very

730
00:49:16,679 --> 00:49:18,360
you can see it. It's the same person writing it,

731
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,000
signed by him, confirmed by him. And now change it

732
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,760
to the suicide note. Now look at that and tell

733
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:25,079
me that that's the same person.

734
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:26,960
Speaker 1: Right.

735
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 2: You can see that the vaunt is tilted to the right,

736
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,199
and that the capital letters don't match, and that.

737
00:49:36,639 --> 00:49:40,159
Speaker 1: I and as I said earlier, when you look at

738
00:49:40,159 --> 00:49:46,360
his actual confirmed handwriting, it's sloppier than this. It's well,

739
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,360
it's it's much different than this. This seems more compact.

740
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:56,719
This seems more it's just different handwriting. And also you

741
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,639
would think at a time when you're writing your suicide note,

742
00:50:01,079 --> 00:50:04,400
you may not have the best penmanship and this is

743
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:05,239
like pristine.

744
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this, you know, so the handwriting, I mean,

745
00:50:11,639 --> 00:50:14,920
this is what suffices as a suicide note. I mean

746
00:50:15,079 --> 00:50:18,719
I find it unbelievable that a man who left fifteen

747
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,039
handwritten diaries at the White House for safe keeping upon

748
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:25,239
his reliefs, all he would ever leave is a suicide

749
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,280
note would be one transcribed poem from a book he's reading.

750
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,320
You know when was it written?

751
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: You know?

752
00:50:33,159 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 2: Was it written at night? In the five minutes before

753
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,119
he jumps out the window? Was it left there?

754
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:39,679
Speaker 1: You know?

755
00:50:40,199 --> 00:50:42,119
Speaker 2: Why would a man who had planned so far ahead

756
00:50:42,159 --> 00:50:47,800
on being released? You know, this is what he This

757
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,960
is his goodbye, you know, a man who was our

758
00:50:52,039 --> 00:50:55,679
secretary of Defense for five years and secretary of the Navy.

759
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,599
That's his explanation. You know, it's none of it adds up.

760
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:07,320
The details are very very strange. And let's see what

761
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:14,559
other points here are there to draw. Let's see, Okay,

762
00:51:14,599 --> 00:51:16,719
we covered? Is we covered? Is passing.

763
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:20,320
Speaker 1: To do big stuff?

764
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 2: The Wikipedia article most everything you read in it is bs.

765
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,840
I would recommend looking at the sources. The Death of

766
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:33,639
James Forrestall and the Assassination of James Forrestall these are

767
00:51:33,639 --> 00:51:38,440
two different books. It's hundreds and hundreds of pages of

768
00:51:38,679 --> 00:51:43,320
evidence because these are sourced from the Foyer requests that

769
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:49,079
went to the US government and the actual witness testimony

770
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:53,440
the inquiry. All of the actual evidence is sourced within it.

771
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,280
So nothing that I'm saying is conjecture. This is all

772
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:03,199
demonstrated in the UH paperwork that comes out from the

773
00:52:03,199 --> 00:52:06,719
federal government. And another thing I'd like to add is

774
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,480
that right at the top of the Wikipedia article, it

775
00:52:09,559 --> 00:52:13,800
says that he was administered barbituates and that, you know,

776
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:18,199
the subtext there is that this perhaps altered his mental

777
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:21,000
state to make him suicidal, or that he was under

778
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:25,159
some kind of heavy influence of drugs. That is not

779
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,360
the case. It is confirmed that when he went to

780
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,719
bed the night before his suicide, he did not take

781
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:37,440
any any barbituates. He was he refused them. The aid,

782
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:42,159
the medical aid who was working there, offered them to

783
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:44,480
him and he declined and he said he can sleep

784
00:52:44,519 --> 00:52:48,320
without him. And you know, so most stuff that you're

785
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:50,840
going to encounter in the Wikipedia article about him is

786
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:53,360
it's not true.

787
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:03,119
Speaker 1: Well that's quite a lot. Then that's hearing stories like this.

788
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:07,920
You know, I immediately I start looking at big picture

789
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,199
of stuff, and it's like, okay, so he was he

790
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,000
was one of I forget who the other person was.

791
00:53:14,079 --> 00:53:18,199
Who was who told Truman do not recognize the State

792
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,840
of Israel, do not recognize And I forget who the

793
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:26,840
other one was. But they relented, and he's stuck. And

794
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,480
you know something I said earlier, you know our greatest ally.

795
00:53:34,199 --> 00:53:38,920
Does anybody want to ask the question of whether things

796
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:45,039
the United States, the culture, the country, the government has

797
00:53:45,119 --> 00:53:49,400
gotten better or worse since nineteen forty eight. I mean,

798
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,599
I've heard politicians say since October seventh of twenty twenty

799
00:53:53,639 --> 00:53:58,239
three that the United States can't exist without the State

800
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:06,559
of Israel. I'm I don't First of all, what kind

801
00:54:06,599 --> 00:54:10,400
of what world are you living in? If you're saying

802
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,840
that it's pure propaganda? Do you even believe it? Do

803
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,480
you do you believe it? Or are you just is

804
00:54:16,519 --> 00:54:21,079
it something you are just blatantly lying and you know

805
00:54:21,159 --> 00:54:26,159
you're lying. Is it something you've convinced yourself of? And honestly,

806
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:35,320
if people, if American heroes and many American heroes have

807
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:45,079
suffered even death because this state exists and it has

808
00:54:45,119 --> 00:54:53,719
so much power and basically occupies ours, h how do

809
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:59,000
how do people not see this. How do people how

810
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:03,039
do people continue to offend it? And I guess, I

811
00:55:03,079 --> 00:55:06,239
guess the only Yeah, I mean, and I'm talking about

812
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:11,280
even kind of people who who have the power or

813
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,480
the resources to do it, do they know? And they

814
00:55:14,639 --> 00:55:17,480
just they're scared that they're going to end up in

815
00:55:17,559 --> 00:55:21,480
a mental institution, you know, and in a hospital somewhere,

816
00:55:21,519 --> 00:55:23,599
and you know, they're going to take their own life

817
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,039
quote unquote yeah, and if you.

818
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 2: I mean, there's a few interesting aspects of this to

819
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,719
stand out to me. The the biggest aspect is I

820
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,559
think this is the first one. I mean in what

821
00:55:37,639 --> 00:55:43,480
we consider Uh, how do I even put this? Preventable deaths?

822
00:55:44,119 --> 00:55:49,679
I mean, yes, the man, oh gosh, how do I

823
00:55:49,679 --> 00:55:52,119
even go about this? He was opposed to the creation

824
00:55:52,159 --> 00:55:57,599
of Israel, but he was out of the picture. He

825
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,239
was no longer the Secretary of Defense. He'd resigned from

826
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:04,280
the cabinet. He wanted to just he was talking to

827
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:06,480
his brother about this that he just wanted to go

828
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,320
go home and he wanted to work for a local newspaper.

829
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,719
And there, you know, after five years in this incredibly

830
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,880
high stressed position, you know, this is not someone who

831
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:23,920
would want to advance a political agenda he was on.

832
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,639
His political fortunes were toast as early as nineteen forty six.

833
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:37,960
And I think the real tragedy is that his fate.

834
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:40,800
Speaker 1: Was sealed.

835
00:56:42,039 --> 00:56:46,039
Speaker 2: More so than Okay, let's get this guy out of

836
00:56:46,079 --> 00:56:50,639
the picture, and you know, then we'll achieve some kind

837
00:56:50,639 --> 00:56:54,079
of goal that we can't enact with this person in power.

838
00:56:55,159 --> 00:56:56,079
That's not what happened.

839
00:56:56,079 --> 00:56:56,599
Speaker 1: This was.

840
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:00,199
Speaker 2: I don't even know what to call it, because it's

841
00:57:00,199 --> 00:57:03,159
not revenge because he was a minority position on the

842
00:57:03,199 --> 00:57:07,840
cabinet which was prosionist, and it wasn't political because Democrats

843
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:12,920
and Republicans had unified whether Truman or Dewey to agree

844
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:19,280
on this issue. There ah, sorry, there was no reason

845
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,320
for this man to die, even from like a real politique,

846
00:57:22,719 --> 00:57:26,800
completely evil, pragmatic or rational line of thinking.

847
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 1: There was no.

848
00:57:29,079 --> 00:57:34,639
Speaker 2: There was no reason. And if it wasn't murder, then

849
00:57:36,119 --> 00:57:44,239
this man committing suicide is still an immense tragedy. I

850
00:57:44,239 --> 00:57:47,639
guess that doesn't I'm just kind of I'm rambling a

851
00:57:47,639 --> 00:57:48,599
little bit here, but.

852
00:57:51,719 --> 00:57:55,039
Speaker 1: Well, I mean if he committed even if even if

853
00:57:55,039 --> 00:58:00,320
he did commit suicide, he did it for a reason.

854
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:06,119
He did it because he was driven to it, absolutely, yeah,

855
00:58:06,159 --> 00:58:11,039
And why why when you're already basically out of the spotlight.

856
00:58:11,079 --> 00:58:13,840
I mean, it's just revenge. I mean, it's just it's

857
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,599
just I don't even know if it's revenge. I think

858
00:58:16,639 --> 00:58:24,039
it's just it's just we can do it. Is it is,

859
00:58:24,119 --> 00:58:26,079
we have the power to do it, and fuck you.

860
00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they did have the power to do it.

861
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,480
Looking at the Venona papers and all the people in

862
00:58:32,519 --> 00:58:36,480
the Roosevelt and Truman administrations who worked with the communists.

863
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,679
You know, in this country, it was framed that the

864
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:46,440
communists had no power and the evil mccarthyites came in

865
00:58:46,519 --> 00:58:53,159
and persecuted people. But the actual history is the polar

866
00:58:53,239 --> 00:58:57,440
inverse of that fact. You know, a man who I mean,

867
00:58:57,480 --> 00:59:02,960
this man again, there's nothing antisemitic. He had no animosity here.

868
00:59:04,079 --> 00:59:08,039
He was simply looking out for the interests, the security

869
00:59:08,719 --> 00:59:13,559
and the energy interests of the United States. And it

870
00:59:13,639 --> 00:59:18,519
wasn't enough that he was humiliated by being made to

871
00:59:18,599 --> 00:59:22,920
resign early than he would have liked after giving everything

872
00:59:23,639 --> 00:59:29,719
for his country. When he was in mental health treatment,

873
00:59:30,599 --> 00:59:35,000
people that he hated were showing up and they probably

874
00:59:35,079 --> 00:59:38,760
weren't remorseful about their actions and having driven him to

875
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,840
that point, and they probably weren't, you know, there to

876
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:49,639
make nice. And it is an evil action to refuse

877
00:59:49,719 --> 00:59:53,960
somebody their priests and to put them in a room

878
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:57,920
with their enemy when they're in a psych word. I mean,

879
00:59:59,159 --> 01:00:05,239
you know, and you know what is the value of

880
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:11,119
one good man? You know this starting he had every

881
01:00:11,199 --> 01:00:13,320
opportunity throughout his I just want to like recap his

882
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,639
life real quick. He had every opportunity.

883
01:00:15,039 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 1: To say no.

884
01:00:15,679 --> 01:00:20,719
Speaker 2: He didn't have to. He didn't have to leave the

885
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:24,039
business world to join the Navy, and even in the Navy,

886
01:00:24,079 --> 01:00:26,559
he didn't have to take the risk of joining the

887
01:00:26,599 --> 01:00:30,599
aviation branch, which was a dangerous job to fly planes

888
01:00:31,039 --> 01:00:34,159
in nineteen seventeen. You know, he didn't have to give

889
01:00:34,239 --> 01:00:38,719
up that pilot's commission to go work as a bureaucrat

890
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,239
in DC or go back to business life. He could

891
01:00:42,239 --> 01:00:46,280
have refused FDR in nineteen forty to assist this country

892
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:50,920
and its rearmament and war production. He also could have

893
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,039
turned down, after the heart attack, his promotion to be

894
01:00:53,119 --> 01:00:56,119
Secretary of Navy, and he could have turned down the

895
01:00:56,679 --> 01:01:01,199
post war change from Secretary of Navy to Secretary of Defense.

896
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:03,320
At any point, he could have just said no. He

897
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,360
could have just taken the money and the power and

898
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:11,719
the influence and just gone home. But throughout his life

899
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:15,559
he gave money to poor men who could not afford college,

900
01:01:16,559 --> 01:01:19,840
and he argued in favor of an enemy that was

901
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:24,559
defeated in warfare for the humanitarian aid. And he was

902
01:01:24,639 --> 01:01:27,440
anti communist because he loved this country.

903
01:01:28,519 --> 01:01:30,559
Speaker 1: And he.

904
01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 2: At every turn, especially in the Truman years, he was

905
01:01:37,639 --> 01:01:48,360
needlessly persecuted and his opinions were ignored, and his efforts

906
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:56,519
to tell the truth were suppressed. And it kind of

907
01:01:56,960 --> 01:02:03,880
defies belief. And the man was not a nameless bureaucrat,

908
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,039
although even if he was a humble and simple man,

909
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:09,159
it would be still equally a tragedy. The man was

910
01:02:09,159 --> 01:02:12,320
our secretary of defense, the first one, a man who

911
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,480
was asked a pioneer a political position and do a

912
01:02:15,599 --> 01:02:19,760
job competently, a man who never took vacations, and a

913
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:25,440
man who really gave every part of himself for this

914
01:02:25,559 --> 01:02:31,119
country to see, you know, this being his legacy. And

915
01:02:31,199 --> 01:02:37,639
for years afterwards he was, you know, deride it is.

916
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:41,079
Speaker 1: I don't even know.

917
01:02:41,519 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 2: I don't even know. I couldn't bring myself to read

918
01:02:44,079 --> 01:02:46,199
through most of there are a lot of sources out

919
01:02:46,239 --> 01:02:51,719
there from the time that were kind of forgotten about

920
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,599
that would portray him in a very negative light when

921
01:02:54,599 --> 01:02:58,679
he was Secretary of Defense that after his death were

922
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:00,679
kind of you know, you can't really find the microfilms

923
01:03:00,679 --> 01:03:05,800
anymore for research and the other stuff. And you know,

924
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,840
he left twenty eight hundred pages of his diaries at

925
01:03:08,840 --> 01:03:12,920
the White House so that people would know. And even

926
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,280
though the addition that we got was heavily edited, it

927
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,880
shows a man who just every single day went to

928
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:26,880
work for this country. And I I think it's ah, man,

929
01:03:28,039 --> 01:03:30,800
it's what a tragedy, What a tragedy for this man

930
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:33,280
to be treated in this way, And when you compare

931
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:36,880
it to a man like Baruch who made it past

932
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:42,039
his eightieth birthday on seventeen thousand acres and profited millions

933
01:03:42,079 --> 01:03:48,880
and millions of dollars from this country's wartime efforts and

934
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:55,800
forrestall dies alone, and you know, the day he was

935
01:03:55,840 --> 01:04:02,599
supposed to be released from the hospital, I just it. Yeah,

936
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:05,760
I don't know much else to say. I wish there

937
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:07,920
was a I mean, I do want to there has

938
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:09,840
to be some kind of positive because what a negative

939
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,760
note to end on or to like wrap things or

940
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:16,519
to steadily wrap things up on I think I think

941
01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:19,719
the positive to be drawn from this is that the

942
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:25,639
Trump administration needs to make an effort to find these

943
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:32,000
men who will give everything and to make sure that

944
01:04:32,079 --> 01:04:36,880
their efforts are used as productively and efficiently as this

945
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:41,760
country used the talent of James Forrestall. And when it

946
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:44,679
comes down to it, when these men that are going

947
01:04:44,719 --> 01:04:48,320
to step up and fill these positions and do this

948
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:54,320
job at like tremendous reputational risk to themselves and their families,

949
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,480
the administration needs to go to the mat for them

950
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,079
in a way that I found very few people went

951
01:05:04,119 --> 01:05:08,920
to the mat for mister Forrestall, and that I think

952
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,199
is the central lesson and why I got interested in him.

953
01:05:12,239 --> 01:05:17,000
I first heard about him Stormy mentioned that Forestall was

954
01:05:17,039 --> 01:05:21,800
a hero, and that got me very intrigued. And I

955
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,920
think that there are going to be heroes in this country.

956
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,719
There have been in the interim period between World War

957
01:05:27,719 --> 01:05:30,320
Two and now, and then in the Trump administration, there's

958
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:36,400
going to be heroes, and when they do difficult things,

959
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:42,639
there has to be people that support them because there's

960
01:05:42,679 --> 01:05:44,960
going to be the same types of people out there

961
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:52,800
that destroyed Forrestall's reputation, that undermined him, and that whether

962
01:05:53,079 --> 01:05:56,280
either by suicide or murder, eventually drove him to suicide.

963
01:05:56,639 --> 01:05:59,199
There has to be people out there that will say

964
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:02,320
no to muck breakers and to support people in the

965
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:06,760
Trump administration, because it is an equally difficult task that

966
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,599
we face ahead of us now to rearm and to

967
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:16,440
industrialize and to onshore manufacturing, and we're going to need

968
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:19,719
people as talented as forced All to do it. The man,

969
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:25,639
to reiterate, grew the Navy six times over in four years, okay,

970
01:06:25,679 --> 01:06:32,440
built one hundred aircraft carriers and arranged for that. You know,

971
01:06:33,239 --> 01:06:38,920
could the US build one aircraft carrier today in four years?

972
01:06:40,559 --> 01:06:41,719
You know, it's not very clear.

973
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, the way not the way things are structured nowadays.

974
01:06:48,599 --> 01:06:52,599
It's just but there's too much, you know, you have

975
01:06:52,639 --> 01:06:55,880
to have this amount of diversity here and there and everything,

976
01:06:55,960 --> 01:07:00,320
and there are men out there, there are a mayors

977
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:03,960
out there who can do these things and do them well.

978
01:07:05,039 --> 01:07:15,079
They're either being attacked, fed fed prescription drugs liberally even

979
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:18,840
if they don't need them, or they're just being replaced

980
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:25,280
by Frankenstein head shaped street shitters from India.

981
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, now we could use with a few more Irish

982
01:07:29,639 --> 01:07:31,760
Catholics in this administration.

983
01:07:33,719 --> 01:07:39,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, I'm gonna let's wrap this up here

984
01:07:40,519 --> 01:07:44,039
because it just it gets depressing the more you think

985
01:07:44,079 --> 01:07:48,280
about it. But yeah, you have to these men, men

986
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:53,199
like him are out there. They just you would think

987
01:07:53,199 --> 01:07:55,039
they'd be smart enough to be like, I don't want

988
01:07:55,079 --> 01:07:58,679
anything to do with that government, or if I haven't

989
01:07:58,679 --> 01:08:01,320
have anything to do with that government, I'm gonna use

990
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:06,599
it as a way to enrich myself because they're fucking dangerous.

991
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:10,559
And you know, if I had some way to have

992
01:08:10,639 --> 01:08:15,599
government contracts so that I can enrich myself and basically

993
01:08:15,840 --> 01:08:19,279
make myself bulletproof through that kind of wealth, I would,

994
01:08:20,239 --> 01:08:22,039
And maybe some of those men have been doing that

995
01:08:22,079 --> 01:08:25,600
for about thirty or forty years, and you know, the

996
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,399
smartest men out there. I just don't really want anything

997
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:28,960
to do with it.

998
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:40,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, all right, but yeah, anything, no nothing

999
01:08:40,239 --> 01:08:40,520
from me.

1000
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:46,800
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I'll link to your YouTube channel again

1001
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:49,880
that hopefully one of these days you'll get back to

1002
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:55,720
reading forgotten books on yes, sir, and yeah, thank you,

1003
01:08:55,760 --> 01:09:01,079
and we'll talk about something I want to h m hmm,

1004
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:05,279
maybe talk about doing one more of these, but I

1005
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:07,000
want to think of the person to do it on

1006
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:12,960
something that can follow through on this, uh, this thread

1007
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:17,760
that you you started to pull here. Absolutely all right,

1008
01:09:18,039 --> 01:09:21,319
thanks follows, appreciate it. Thank you, Pete H.