Speaker 1: It's night Side with Dan Ray WBZ Coostin's video. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: a few nights ago, one of our listeners, regular listeners,
Speaker 1: suggested that as we approach, were we really in the
Speaker 1: fifth anniversary of the arrival of COVID in this country?
Speaker 1: Very difficult to figure out exactly when COVID arrived, I
Speaker 1: mean it arrived. It first appeared at a nursing home
Speaker 1: I believe in the state of Washington in late January,
Speaker 1: early February. Then you had that conference out at the
Speaker 1: Long Whaff Marriott which a number of people contracted COVID,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden it percolated up and
Speaker 1: by this time in March of twenty and twenty, we
Speaker 1: were all aware that something was going on. We didn't
Speaker 1: know what it was happening. Remember we were we weren't
Speaker 1: wear masked, not wear masked, all of that. And we
Speaker 1: still don't know everything about it. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that one of the great mysteries of COVID five
Speaker 1: years later is what's called long COVID. And we are
Speaker 1: joined again. About a year ago, we talked with my
Speaker 1: guest Julie Sullivan. She's the program manager of the COVID
Speaker 1: Recovery Center at Brigham and Women's Hospital. It works with
Speaker 1: you know, what you would call pulmonary medicine, and Julie
Speaker 1: is delighted, delightful to have you back. Thanks very much
Speaker 1: for joining us on this fifth anniversary. It's not like
Speaker 1: the day they signed the Declaration of Independence two hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty three years ago that we can pinpoint when
Speaker 1: it started. But you've been involved treating people with long
Speaker 1: COVID for quite a while. Where do we stand at
Speaker 1: this point? I think there's no question that long COVID
Speaker 1: is real. It's not something that's psychological.
Speaker 2: Correct, correct, Hi, Dan, I'm nice to be back. Yes,
Speaker 2: you're right. This is definitely, definitely a physical condition. It's
Speaker 2: a post viral condition, and we've seen things like this
Speaker 2: in the past with chroduct fatigue syndrome and other conditions
Speaker 2: that are autoimmune that were triggered by viruses. But COVID
Speaker 2: has really shown a light on how dangerous post viral
Speaker 2: conditions can be and how pervasive they can be.
Speaker 1: You sent me some materials today which have had a
Speaker 1: chance to look at, and some of these are frightening.
Speaker 1: For example, I believe that you're convinced that about ten
Speaker 1: to thirty percent of COVID nine nineteen cases. COVID cases
Speaker 1: result in long COVID. I mean there were millions of
Speaker 1: Americans who contracted COVID. Was there one strain of it
Speaker 1: that made people more likely to have long COVID? Or
Speaker 1: is that number of ten to thirty percent? I mean
Speaker 1: that's a wide number because one one in ten to
Speaker 1: three and ten. Just drill down on that for me
Speaker 1: a little bit. What are you telling me there? Would
Speaker 1: you send me that number?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Definitely. And so when we talk about long COVID,
Speaker 2: we talk about symptoms that persist beyond the usual infection period.
Speaker 2: So when we say ten to thirty percent, that includes
Speaker 2: people who had camble symptoms for six weeks, eight weeks,
Speaker 2: two months in recovery, and so is anything that extends
Speaker 2: beyond that period. It's hard to get exact numbers because
Speaker 2: some people do recover and everyone's recovery rate is different.
Speaker 2: We estimate that six to seven percent have ongoing chronic symptoms.
Speaker 2: The first wave the pandemic was definitely the most dangerous,
Speaker 2: and we didn't have any community.
Speaker 1: Yeah, hold on, just want me show six to seven
Speaker 1: percent of all US adults. That's that's what we're here,
Speaker 1: That's what I believe, Okay, And with everyone.
Speaker 2: Knows someone with long COVID. You know, you can talk
Speaker 2: to your friends and you'll find someone who says, yes,
Speaker 2: I have long COVID, or someone who says, you know,
Speaker 2: my breathing never has been the same since I had
Speaker 2: COVID two years ago, or have never been able to
Speaker 2: exercise to that point.
Speaker 1: By the way, Julie, I'm not challenging on any of
Speaker 1: these statistics. I'm trying to re emphasize the seriousness of this.
Speaker 1: I have friends, and I think I mentioned and he's
Speaker 1: a pretty well known former tennis player, Cliff Richie, who
Speaker 1: to this day deals with long COVID. And Cliff was
Speaker 1: one of the healthiest individuals that I have ever known.
Speaker 1: You know, he's a he's a little older, you know,
Speaker 1: he's in his late seventies at this point. But there
Speaker 1: are days when I'll call him on the phone and
Speaker 1: he'll just say, Dan, I can't talk. I mean, and
Speaker 1: he literally is, and he's it's just it's some people.
Speaker 2: Some people are bet bound and homebound. It's that severe.
Speaker 2: So just like when you contract COVID, there's a difference
Speaker 2: in severity where some people you know, can go into
Speaker 2: respiratory failure and die and other people have no symptoms.
Speaker 2: There is also a range with long COVID, and it
Speaker 2: is scary because every time you can tract COVID, you
Speaker 2: increase your risk of developing long COVID.
Speaker 1: WHOA now, now, real quick question here, and I want
Speaker 1: to stay with the notes that you sent me are
Speaker 1: which are just unbelievably scary. COVID is still around the
Speaker 1: The Department of Health here in Massachusetts releases statistics every week.
Speaker 1: It doesn't get into the written newspaper. I don't see
Speaker 1: it in the globe of the Herald, but there's always
Speaker 1: you know, seven, eight, ten people who pass away from
Speaker 1: COVID and that's that's a lot of depths over the
Speaker 1: course of a year in one state. Do we have
Speaker 1: and I know this may get into not into your
Speaker 1: area of expertise, What can you hear about the possibility
Speaker 1: that you know, we've been told now it's always going
Speaker 1: to be with us, like the flow, it's never gone away.
Speaker 1: Is that is that accurate?
Speaker 2: I think it is, although we're certainly not doing anything
Speaker 2: to make COVID go away. You know the numbers I
Speaker 2: think the reporting is still it's still underreported because people
Speaker 2: are not testing for COVID and they're not treating COVID
Speaker 2: when they have it and not preventing transmission of it,
Speaker 2: and that perpetuates the matter as it continues to evolve
Speaker 2: and it continues to make new variants to stay in
Speaker 2: our systems, and that is scary because it can mutate
Speaker 2: to get more dangerous, to be more contagious, and we've
Speaker 2: seen that happen over the course of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: Do you think that at some point in the future
Speaker 1: it's conceivable that we could be looking at a repeat
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty or is that the worst of it,
Speaker 1: and that it may come back in various income our nations,
Speaker 1: but it's never going to come back with that intensity.
Speaker 1: What's your thought on that?
Speaker 2: Well, my thought is that we have more pandemics ahead
Speaker 2: of us, maybe not COVID, but other viruses, you know,
Speaker 2: the H one, N five and a lot of these
Speaker 2: viruses that are pretty dangerous and circulating could transfer over
Speaker 2: to humans and become pretty deadly to humans again, So
Speaker 2: I think we always have to be very conscious of that.
Speaker 2: I don't know that COVID itself would evolved to become
Speaker 2: more dangerous. That there are other coronaviruses that certainly could
Speaker 2: develop to become dangerous.
Speaker 1: And the problem, I think is that when when COVID
Speaker 1: really hit, and it hit with the intensity that that
Speaker 1: those of us you know, who were around at that
Speaker 1: time and over a certain age, I think if you
Speaker 1: were over ten years old, you recognized that this was
Speaker 1: this was a pandemic and that was a big word
Speaker 1: that people were getting used to, an epidemic of international
Speaker 1: proportions that that we kind of did rally and everybody
Speaker 1: was a little more careful. But I feel that as
Speaker 1: time goes by, we're getting sloppy again. Not that I
Speaker 1: want everyone wearing masks or anything like that, but it
Speaker 1: just seems to me that if it's not in the
Speaker 1: forefront of our mind of our minds, that gives that
Speaker 1: puts us at a collective disadvantage. And I don't use
Speaker 1: the word collective a lot, because I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: a fan of that word. But if I don't take
Speaker 1: care of myself and watch out, it might come back
Speaker 1: to I might not get it, but maybe somehow I
Speaker 1: will transmit it to you or to someone else. Am
Speaker 1: I crazy?
Speaker 2: When I talk that way, No, I think you're right.
Speaker 2: I think we have gotten really sloppy. We learned some
Speaker 2: really important things during the early days of the pandemic
Speaker 2: around washing our hands and avoiding crowds and not sanitizing
Speaker 2: after you touch high contact surfaces, staying home when you're
Speaker 2: sick to protect other people, and a lot of those
Speaker 2: just basic respiratory egien and infection control practices we've really
Speaker 2: slipped away from. And I think that's also why we
Speaker 2: saw such surgeons of viruses in general this winter, with
Speaker 2: flu A and flu B and RSV and the neurovirus.
Speaker 2: So it's been a messy winter for sure for viruses
Speaker 2: and a lot of infections control and respiratory hygiene could
Speaker 2: see people a lot of grief.
Speaker 1: My guest is Julie Sullivan. Julie has been on the
Speaker 1: front lines of the COVID battle for many years, for
Speaker 1: five years and probably realistically before that. Julie is currently
Speaker 1: the manager of the COVID Recovery Center at Brigham and
Speaker 1: Women's Hospital. You have dealt with a lot of people
Speaker 1: over the last few years, without again identifying people, I
Speaker 1: want to drill down in our next segment, what have
Speaker 1: you been doing. How do you pull people out of
Speaker 1: this pit of despair? And it is a pit of despair.
Speaker 1: And if you do, you have any questions and you'd
Speaker 1: like to talk with Julie, all you've got to do
Speaker 1: is give us a call six one seven, two, five,
Speaker 1: four ten thirty or six one seven, nine three one
Speaker 1: ten thirty. We'll get to phone calls for Julie Sullivan.
Speaker 1: Your questions about COVID, about your situation. Feel free to
Speaker 1: ask whatever ever questions you like. As I learned many
Speaker 1: years ago in law school, the only dumb questions of
Speaker 1: the questions you don't have the courage to ask, because
Speaker 1: that's the one that's going to be in the midterm
Speaker 1: or the final exam. Six one seven, five four ten thirty,
Speaker 1: six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. My name
Speaker 1: is Dan Ray, Delighted to be joined by Julie Sullivan
Speaker 1: on the topic of recovery from long COVID Back after
Speaker 1: this Now back to Dan Ray live from the Window
Speaker 1: World night Side.
Speaker 3: Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 1: My guest is Julie Sullivan. She is an expert on
Speaker 1: recovering from long COVID UH. She works at Brigham and
Speaker 1: Women Hospital, in the COVID Recovery center, She's dealt with
Speaker 1: lots of people over time. Julia Kinda, this may be
Speaker 1: a question that is beyond your realm of expertise. I
Speaker 1: suspect it isn't, but just in case.
Speaker 4: It is.
Speaker 1: One of the things about COVID that has struck me
Speaker 1: as curious, and that is, when you buy or you
Speaker 1: get from the government COVID tests, they don't seem to
Speaker 1: have a long life expectancy. And my suspicion is that
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people listening to the program tonight
Speaker 1: who have never checked the use by date on their
Speaker 1: COVID test packets, and when they need to use them,
Speaker 1: they're going to find that they are theoretically out of date.
Speaker 1: How come, and this again maybe beyond your realm, how
Speaker 1: come our government could not come up with a test
Speaker 1: which which would maintain its capability for more than just
Speaker 1: a few months.
Speaker 2: That's a good question that is beyond my realm of expertise, actually,
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 1: Don't know to me that that if for you, four
Speaker 1: months from now or next September, something like COVID comes
Speaker 1: roaring back, we're all going to go to our uh,
Speaker 1: you know, to our medicine cabinets and pull out some
Speaker 1: some tests. What you're gonna say, well, this expired, you know,
Speaker 1: a year and a half ago.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well you could be like me and and replenish
Speaker 2: your COVID tests and especially so before every search. So
Speaker 2: that's what I do.
Speaker 1: That's okay, solid advice. Let's uh, let's get some phone
Speaker 1: calls and see what see what people have to say. Again,
Speaker 1: if you've had an experience and you want to compare notes, uh,
Speaker 1: if you want to talk or ask a question, you're
Speaker 1: more than welcome. Let's go. First off to Steve and Lynz. Steve,
Speaker 1: welcome your first ISS hour with Julie Sullivan talking about
Speaker 1: long COVID.
Speaker 3: Yes, how you doing it?
Speaker 5: Then?
Speaker 3: I never got checked. I've never had the call. They
Speaker 3: had the flu from a flu shot, and I got
Speaker 3: COVID in twenty twenty one on our tour of fourteen
Speaker 3: and I spent four months in the Mass General in
Speaker 3: six weeks in a coma in five weeks. One how
Speaker 3: to walk. I just don't want to bother everybody because
Speaker 3: I know your phone is probably busy.
Speaker 1: And so wait a second, so they gave me a Steve, Steve,
Speaker 1: just pay with me for a second. You've thrown a
Speaker 1: lot at us. Let's absorb it because your experience is
Speaker 1: important to talk about. So you had never really been
Speaker 1: someone who who contracted this stuff? Is what you? What
Speaker 1: I think you said? Did? You were a pretty healthy individual?
Speaker 3: Very very okay?
Speaker 4: Ed?
Speaker 1: Did you go ahead and get the COVID shots or no?
Speaker 3: In twenty one No, I didn't even know there was
Speaker 3: anything out there that early.
Speaker 1: Okay, so walk.
Speaker 4: Available.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Steve, just listen to what Julie's going to ask
Speaker 1: you here, Okay, please. You know, I know you want
Speaker 1: to get your story out, and I want to get
Speaker 1: it out because I think it's going to be important.
Speaker 1: But you just got to also give us a chance
Speaker 1: to interact with you. Julie, you had a question or
Speaker 1: a comment for Steve.
Speaker 2: It sounds like Steve contracted COVID before all of the
Speaker 2: vaccinations are readily available, and I'm so sorry that you
Speaker 2: experienced that. It's not unusual, you know, people get very
Speaker 2: stick with COVID, but there's just something that they don't
Speaker 2: quite understand yet in our DNA or our immune system
Speaker 2: that individual to each person that dictates how your body
Speaker 2: responds to COVID. And so you had no reason to
Speaker 2: think that this virus would affect you so badly. But
Speaker 2: it's it's just a special kind of virus. And I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry that you went through that, and you're continuing
Speaker 2: to go through that.
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a question, Steve. You said
Speaker 1: that you contracted COVID in October of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, October fourteenth. Even though I was sick, I had
Speaker 3: double pneumonia, just like I had a problem breathing. Were
Speaker 3: you passed out during I was going to the bathroomen,
Speaker 3: I passed out and thank god somebody was there to
Speaker 3: call me an ambulance.
Speaker 1: Were you aware? Were you aware, Steve, that there were
Speaker 1: COVID shots that by October of twenty twenty one were available?
Speaker 1: Not really? Okay, so you don't remember.
Speaker 3: I could have That's that's another thing that happened. My
Speaker 3: memory is just my short term memories wiped out.
Speaker 1: How is this? Are you back to work or what's
Speaker 1: your life like today?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I'm disabled. It gave me neuropathy. My
Speaker 3: legs swello up, my cap on, my knees down, they
Speaker 3: swell up like four times the size of my normal's calf. Hey,
Speaker 3: my sense of smells not back. Even nobody's from me
Speaker 3: to be normal and.
Speaker 1: Seeing Steve, are you seeing doctors or are you in any
Speaker 1: sort of a program at all? Or no?
Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, yeah, I have a doctors and I've been
Speaker 3: checked by all cons of people. Plus i had ostio.
Speaker 3: Its like a deal with that, but it made that
Speaker 3: like three times as painful.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this question, Steve, if I could
Speaker 1: ask how old are you?
Speaker 3: I'm sick. I'm sixty to you right now.
Speaker 1: Sixty three. So it's a pretty good chance you might
Speaker 1: never work again.
Speaker 3: Oh I can barely. I can't walk a couple of
Speaker 3: hundred feet. I have to walk with a cane.
Speaker 1: Now, okay, Julie, Is I assume you deal with folks
Speaker 1: like Steve fairly frequently? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: Is Steve you're your quintessential sort of patient or is
Speaker 1: he an exceptionally impacted patient?
Speaker 2: You know what Stinus describing is what COVID does. It
Speaker 2: causes an ongoing inflammatory and immune response, and that's why
Speaker 2: he's continuing to suffer to this day. You know, if
Speaker 2: it was a one and done and then you just
Speaker 2: could heal from it, like a stroke or something like that,
Speaker 2: that would be one thing, but the virus stays on
Speaker 2: in your system and continues to recapog and that's what
Speaker 2: makes recovery so challenging.
Speaker 1: What what advice would you have for Steve kN again?
Speaker 1: Should he be someone who's calling your program or should
Speaker 1: he be reaching out? Are there similar programs on the
Speaker 1: North Shore that might be more convenient for him? What
Speaker 1: can we do for him at this point?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would recommend that. It sounds like, were
Speaker 2: you connected with MATH general still? Is that where you're hospitalized? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so it would be good to stay connected with them.
Speaker 2: You know, when it comes to along COVID programs, there's.
Speaker 5: Not a lot.
Speaker 2: We were very fortunate to have three here in the
Speaker 2: Boston area at Sigum and Women's and Beth Israel Deaconness
Speaker 2: of Boston Medical Center. But one thing, and we can
Speaker 2: talk a little bit more about this, is that what
Speaker 2: we offer is an addition to medical support for people
Speaker 2: experiencing long COVID and post hospital issues from COVID is
Speaker 2: access to clinical trials and then a lot of community
Speaker 2: support and the ability to connect with other people who
Speaker 2: have long COVID and understand what you're going through and
Speaker 2: so we have support groups and we do a lot
Speaker 2: of community building, and we have presentations from experts and
Speaker 2: the weekly newsletter to keep people updated on the latest
Speaker 2: with COVID research because of this changing. So I think
Speaker 2: it would be wonderful for you to be connected with
Speaker 2: something like that and then also get to maintain hope.
Speaker 2: You know, we really hope that in the next couple
Speaker 2: of years they're going to develop some focused treatments for
Speaker 2: COVID that will still up this ongoing effect that's having
Speaker 2: on your body. And well, you may not, you know,
Speaker 2: get back to one hundred percent, and it's likely you won't. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: you might be able to feel better than you do now,
Speaker 2: and that's the hope that everybody can get at least
Speaker 2: better than they are now with good treatments.
Speaker 1: Julie, we're going to be able to give the number
Speaker 1: of the phone number for your facility, So could Steve
Speaker 1: call there and get some more specific guidance based upon
Speaker 1: where he lives if he calls there sometime in the
Speaker 1: next day or so.
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely absolutely, And we see people from from across
Speaker 2: the state and people out of state as well.
Speaker 1: Great, Okay, Steve, we will give this number a couple
Speaker 1: of times between now and the end of the show.
Speaker 1: So why don't you get yourself a pencil piece of
Speaker 1: paper and we'll give the number that I would advise
Speaker 1: you to give a call tomorrow and they may have
Speaker 1: some some help for you.
Speaker 3: Okay, right, I just I just pray to God that
Speaker 3: nobody else goes for this because this is horror.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, just again, at least we're going to get
Speaker 1: you a contact number for you to call tomorrow and
Speaker 1: make that your task of the day. Thanks Steve, hanging there, buddy.
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you very much for talking to me.
Speaker 1: You're welcome, Thank you for calling. We take a quick break.
Speaker 1: My guest is Julie Sullivan. We're talking about long COVID.
Speaker 1: Julie is associated with Brigham and Women's Hospital. She has
Speaker 1: been dealing with this battle now for years. Your questions
Speaker 1: are welcome. And Julie, why don't we give that number
Speaker 1: out at least now, and then we'll give it out
Speaker 1: a couple more times. How can people reach out to
Speaker 1: the recovery group at Brigham and Women's and maybe get
Speaker 1: referred on or maybe become a member of your greer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I want to struss that if you if
Speaker 2: you want to be in our program, you are in
Speaker 2: our program. We don't have enrollment criteria. You don't have
Speaker 2: to be seeing a doctor at Britain and Women's in
Speaker 2: order to be in our program. We want everyone who
Speaker 2: suffering effects of COVID to be part of our long
Speaker 2: COVID community and have access to the resources that we have. Okay,
Speaker 2: So I'll keep you.
Speaker 5: The phone number.
Speaker 2: Yep, yep at six yep five two five m three
Speaker 2: six six five.
Speaker 1: Okay, So six one seven five two five three six
Speaker 1: sixty five and I assume that's a nine to five number.
Speaker 2: It is, yeah, Okay, great, We'll.
Speaker 1: Be back with Julie Sullivan talking about long COVID. Your calls,
Speaker 1: your comments, your questions are welcome. We'll do this until
Speaker 1: about ten o'clock and we're going to change topics at
Speaker 1: ten o'clock. So get on the line right now. One
Speaker 1: line at six one seven, two five four to ten thirty.
Speaker 1: One line at six one seven, nine three one ten thirty.
Speaker 1: This is an opportunity to for you to ask questions
Speaker 1: or maybe even like Steve, find some support, if not help.
Speaker 1: Back on Night Side right after the news. We're a
Speaker 1: little late for the news, but here it comes right now.
Speaker 1: You're on Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WAZ Boston's
Speaker 1: news Radio. All right, we're talking with Julie Sullivan. She
Speaker 1: is the program manager for the COVID Recovery Center at
Speaker 1: Brigaman Women's Hospital. We gave that number earlier six one seven,
Speaker 1: five two five three, six sixty five. We will give
Speaker 1: it a couple of more times between now and ten o'clock.
Speaker 1: Let's keep rolling here, going to go to Larry out
Speaker 1: of the Cape. Larry, you are involved in this matter
Speaker 1: of fact. You are the person who suggested Julie join us.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that suggestion, go right.
Speaker 6: Ahead, Thank you for discussing this most important subject. And
Speaker 6: thank you Julie for everything to do for our group.
Speaker 6: I've been struggling since November of twenty twenty one. And
Speaker 6: I was healthy. I'm an avid. I was an avid
Speaker 6: mountain biker. I'd go out and do fifteen twenty miles.
Speaker 6: And the problem that I'm dealing with is if you
Speaker 6: don't if people that don't know anybody with long COVID,
Speaker 6: they think it's just a virus, they don't bother testing,
Speaker 6: and they look at me and they say jeez, Larry,
Speaker 6: you look great, but they don't realize what I'm struggling with.
Speaker 6: One of the it's a roll of coaster ride. So
Speaker 6: my problem is yesterday I was on my favorite trails
Speaker 6: down in Brewster and Howish mountain biking. I kept it
Speaker 6: to half my normal distance. I felt really good. Today
Speaker 6: I woke up and it's called a crash. My whole
Speaker 6: body just shut down because I did too much. And
Speaker 6: I have to learn to pace myself and the doctor.
Speaker 6: The mainstream doctors, like Julie said, they don't know what
Speaker 6: to do. And I'm fortunate enough to have a functional
Speaker 6: medicine doctor that I'm dealing with, and I've been taking
Speaker 6: some herbal supplements and I might gradually be getting better,
Speaker 6: but it's a lot. It's been what four years now,
Speaker 6: and it's been a tough battle.
Speaker 1: Julie, I assume that you've heard that type of story before.
Speaker 2: Correct, yes, yes, and you know. And Larry's a wonderful
Speaker 2: advocate for people going through this condition. And what he
Speaker 2: said is absolutely true is that it's an invisible condition.
Speaker 2: People may look okay from the outside, but you don't
Speaker 2: realize how much they're suffering and how limited they are.
Speaker 2: And yes, what Larry's describing is called post exertional malaise,
Speaker 2: and it's a systemic, whole body reaction when you push
Speaker 2: yourself too far. It's not like your regular fatigue. If
Speaker 2: you have a hard workout and you feel sore and
Speaker 2: tired the other day. The next day, this is a
Speaker 2: profound fatigue. People may run a fever. They see you're
Speaker 2: very ill, and it can take a long time to
Speaker 2: feel better, days and sometimes weeks to crawl out of
Speaker 2: a crash.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 1: It's amazing at what you've described, you know, over the
Speaker 1: years to us, and again thanks for suggesting. Uh, Julie,
Speaker 1: she's She's clear and concise and right to the point.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, as all tomorrow. Hope you.
Speaker 6: Bye bye.
Speaker 1: We go next to Raise Up and Lowell Ray You
Speaker 1: are next on Nice Ie with Julie Sullivan of the
Speaker 1: Long covid SE, the COVID of Recovery Center at Brigaman
Speaker 1: Women's Hospital in Boston.
Speaker 4: Go ahead, right, Hi, Dan, Hi Dan, Hi, Julie.
Speaker 1: Hey, how you doing?
Speaker 4: Hey, yeah, hey, I just wanted to make a statement
Speaker 4: and then ask a question and then I'll hang up
Speaker 4: and listen to the response. If that's okay.
Speaker 1: I make your statement, ask you a question, and don't
Speaker 1: don't hang out.
Speaker 4: Go ahead, okay. I was watching the show last night
Speaker 4: on a station called day Star, and there's a show
Speaker 4: that they have on there. I think this is really
Speaker 4: important for your listener. And I was wondering what Julie
Speaker 4: thought about this, Uh, this day Star network, and it's
Speaker 4: there's a show on there called Joni Jo and I
Speaker 4: Table Talk and they had a doctor on there.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: His name is Brian Artists a R D I S.
Speaker 4: And he was dealing with this long COVID sence situation
Speaker 4: and he bam on the show last night that there
Speaker 4: are two studies, one I think he said, was in
Speaker 4: Great Britain, one in France, and some entity is testing
Speaker 4: this theory in the United States. But anyway, what he
Speaker 4: claimed was he said with long COVID. He said, they
Speaker 4: found in the France and the Great Britain study that
Speaker 4: not ninety percent, not eight percent, but one hundred percent
Speaker 4: of the people that did what I'm going to say
Speaker 4: now recovered from long COVID. And he said, if they
Speaker 4: put on a I think he said seven milligram nicotine
Speaker 4: patch on their skin for six days that the long
Speaker 4: COVID goes away, and he said the study was not
Speaker 4: ninety nine percent effective, but was one hundred percent effective
Speaker 4: with those tested. He has a book out and it's
Speaker 4: called The Nineteen Myths of COVID, And again the doctor's
Speaker 4: name is doctor Brian Artists. Aidis the question I had
Speaker 4: is if Julie ever heard of him, and if he's
Speaker 4: heard of this book, the nineteen Mess of COVID by
Speaker 4: Brian Artist and the a of this nicotine patch study
Speaker 4: along COVID suffers.
Speaker 1: So let's stay right here, stay right there. Let's let's
Speaker 1: get a response from Julie and this this okay, this
Speaker 1: sounds almost too good to be true.
Speaker 4: Julie, I know what those Yeah, I know what those Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I haven't heard of Brian Artists, but I'm really interested now.
Speaker 2: I will definitely look him up and look that book up.
Speaker 2: I have heard of nicotine patches and that is being
Speaker 2: used as a treatment. It's helping some people significantly with
Speaker 2: fatigue and with brain fog. There are a few studies
Speaker 2: that are going on right now testing it. What we
Speaker 2: find this long COVID frustratingly is that we haven't found
Speaker 2: one treatment that works for everyone, and there seem to
Speaker 2: be different subtypes of COVID, and so for some people
Speaker 2: a nicotine patch, which does certain things with the seat
Speaker 2: of coline receptors, can really help their symptoms, and then
Speaker 2: for other people it doesn't help. So it is being
Speaker 2: studied and we are we are using it here as
Speaker 2: well and suggesting it to certain patients. It comes with risks,
Speaker 2: you know, you'd have to really clear it with your doctor.
Speaker 2: It could increase your heart rate, and you want to
Speaker 2: make sure that it's a healthy thing for you to do.
Speaker 2: Some people who have tried the nicotine patch had to
Speaker 2: discontinue it because it made them feel really sick. So
Speaker 2: it's not a panacea, unfortunately, but it is one of
Speaker 2: the treatments that's being used for long COVID.
Speaker 4: And again I had one other quests and Dan, I
Speaker 4: feel proment me.
Speaker 1: I got to be quick, go ahead, rakes them up
Speaker 1: my break or right ahead?
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, I understand, I understand. And he was a
Speaker 4: big proponent of ivermectum. He said that it's not getting
Speaker 4: the positivity that the international medical community has given and
Speaker 4: he said it's not just what the people have claimed
Speaker 4: in the past, but it was a horse tranquilize and
Speaker 4: something like that. But anyway, doctor, I'm on the nineteen
Speaker 4: miths of covid or something like that, and I just
Speaker 4: wanted to bring that to your attention and the Jeweler's
Speaker 4: attention and hopefully you can learn more about that than
Speaker 4: what you're saying.
Speaker 2: Okay, thanks, Ray, I'm remex it something that's tossed around
Speaker 2: quite a bit. I don't know if you want to
Speaker 2: me to answer now or if you need to take
Speaker 2: a break and come back to it.
Speaker 1: No, I could take a quick answer again. I know
Speaker 1: that there were some who suggested that, well, I think
Speaker 1: that that the key the drug, that the treatment that
Speaker 1: people have agreed upon is paxlovid. That if you get paxlovid.
Speaker 1: I know once when I had COVID, I got paxlovid early,
Speaker 1: based upon my daughter's recommendation, and it really kept it
Speaker 1: under control and knocked it out of my system quickly.
Speaker 1: I'm not an expert, and I've a mcdeane or some
Speaker 1: of the other drugs that have been bandied about.
Speaker 2: What's your thought on, Yeah, I think you want to
Speaker 2: be wary of drugs that are being that are not
Speaker 2: being recommended by scientists and researchers. You know, I remecon
Speaker 2: this one that people talk about a lot. It also
Speaker 2: has been really researched and found to be not effective
Speaker 2: and not even halfway consistently effective, And so it's one
Speaker 2: of those things that kind of perpetuates itself as a conspiracy,
Speaker 2: but it's I really discourage people from expecting that to
Speaker 2: help them and using that as a treatment instead of
Speaker 2: an anti viral like you Like you mentioned, so there
Speaker 2: are some good solid treatments for COVID, and that's what
Speaker 2: we want to aim people too, is to go look
Speaker 2: for the anti virals and look for anti the anti
Speaker 2: inflammatories and some of the target medications that are specifically
Speaker 2: for COVID.
Speaker 1: Well well, pack packslovid works really well, as I understand
Speaker 1: that if you take it close to the onset of COVID,
Speaker 1: the later you go, the less effective it is. Has
Speaker 1: packed loa been investigated all for long COVID treatments or
Speaker 1: is it ineffectual?
Speaker 2: Funny you mentioned that, So packedlovid is being investigated for
Speaker 2: long COVID and there's a big clinical trial that has
Speaker 2: just wrapped up. We hope to have the results at
Speaker 2: the end of April. It's an NIH study called recover Vital,
Speaker 2: and they're using extended courses of pax slovid, so in
Speaker 2: this case, fifteen day and twenty five day courses of
Speaker 2: pax slovid to see if that can clear all of
Speaker 2: the viral remnants and alleviate long COVID symptoms. And they're
Speaker 2: using a very specific test that was developed at Harvard
Speaker 2: and BWh that can detect the smallest viral proteins in
Speaker 2: the blood because even those small viral proteins can trigger
Speaker 2: your immune system and keep it as an activated inflammatory state.
Speaker 2: So it's definitely being explored for that reason. It stops
Speaker 2: the virus from replicating when you have active COVID, and
Speaker 2: I highly recommend it for people if for some reason
Speaker 2: you can't take paxxlovid because it does have some effects
Speaker 2: on the kidneys and liver. There is there's lagrevo, which
Speaker 2: is an alternative to paxloviad, not quite as effective, but
Speaker 2: better than than nothing. So you want to stop that
Speaker 2: virus from replicating as quickly as possible, get it out
Speaker 2: of your system, because if you allow it to dig
Speaker 2: in and make it self comfortable, that's when you run
Speaker 2: into two real problems in long COVID.
Speaker 1: All right, well, take a quick break, my guess. Julie Sullivan,
Speaker 1: program manager with the COVID Recovery Center at brigam And
Speaker 1: Women's Hospital in Boston. The number that you can reach tomorrow. Uh,
Speaker 1: you may not be able to get to Julie tomorrow.
Speaker 1: You get to her between now at midnine if you call.
Speaker 1: But tomorrow you can reach the recovery center at six
Speaker 1: one seven five two five three six sixty five. I
Speaker 1: surely hope that Steve, who did not seem to be
Speaker 1: aware of the recovery center, takes an effort makes an
Speaker 1: effort to make that phone call six one seven five
Speaker 1: two five three six sixty five. If you like to
Speaker 1: ask a question of Julie, make a comment six one
Speaker 1: seven two five four ten thirty or six one seven
Speaker 1: nine three one ten thirty. Back on Night Side with
Speaker 1: a concluding segment with Julie Sullivan, program manager of the
Speaker 1: COVID Recovery Center at brigam And Women's House Hospital. A
Speaker 1: lot of great information that Julie has provided us and perspective,
Speaker 1: and I think it's something that in this approximately the
Speaker 1: five year anniversary of the arrival of COVID in the
Speaker 1: United States with the full force and impact that it had,
Speaker 1: which we must never forget. I think it's a timely
Speaker 1: conversation and I appreciate those who have called back on
Speaker 1: Nightside right after this. Now back to Dan Ray live
Speaker 1: from the Window World Nightside Studios.
Speaker 5: I'm WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 1: Back to the phones for Julie Sullivan, program manager of
Speaker 1: the COVID of Recovery Center at Brigman Women's Hospital, the
Speaker 1: Long COVID Recovery Center. Dawn and Kill remain down. Next
Speaker 1: on Nightside, go right ahead.
Speaker 5: I wanted to call in because I have similar problems
Speaker 5: as Steven talk to you about. I had brain fog
Speaker 5: and malluch. I can't balance walking, you know, very Stroggs
Speaker 5: struggle walking, okay, And I get this about a year
Speaker 5: and a half ago, and I had all of had
Speaker 5: all of shots and you know, the updates and everything.
Speaker 5: But I got it, and then my doctor's here, I
Speaker 5: can't seem to figure out what to do for me.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to suggest, don even though you're in meane,
Speaker 1: give this number tomorrow a call at the Long COVID
Speaker 1: Recovery Center. It is it's a good group of people.
Speaker 1: You can speak, talk to someone and get into more
Speaker 1: specifics of your circumstances. But we've given the number a
Speaker 1: couple of times. We'll give it again six one seven,
Speaker 1: five two five three six sixty five, and we'll give
Speaker 1: it one more time before we say good night to Julie.
Speaker 4: Fair enough, Thank Don.
Speaker 2: We have a lot of maners in our program, so
Speaker 2: you'll find your your people with us.
Speaker 5: Help you, and they were never heard of that. It's
Speaker 5: good as you program.
Speaker 1: And I assume I assume that a lot of it
Speaker 1: can be done remotely correct. You don't necessarily have to
Speaker 1: physically come to Boston. Maybe you might want to, but
Speaker 1: but you can do a lot remotely correct.
Speaker 5: Joy correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all of our the four troops are online and
Speaker 2: the only thing you'd have to come down for is
Speaker 2: medical appointments, but most most everything else is online and virtual.
Speaker 1: All right, Don hang in there and we'll get this
Speaker 1: number one more time. Get ready to write it down. Okay, Okay, thanks,
Speaker 1: don appreciate it. Let me go to ann and San Antonio,
Speaker 1: Texas and like to get you in quickly. You've called late,
Speaker 1: but I'll make an exception for you.
Speaker 7: Go ahead in Thank you real quick I've had some
Speaker 7: long covids. This fatigue especially I had I never took
Speaker 7: I had covidch wise, never took medicine for it, and
Speaker 7: I just for information purposes, I had the unfortunate circumstance
Speaker 7: of having to take a back lavier at a different
Speaker 7: anti viral, and some of those symptoms have disappeared.
Speaker 2: Yes, so you probably just vals lavier, and that is
Speaker 2: an antiviral that's also being studied for long COVID. There's
Speaker 2: a big clinical trial going on right now. And a
Speaker 2: lot of these viruses are related. And so the epstein
Speaker 2: bar virus when losses mono and a lot of the
Speaker 2: herpes viruses are all kind of part of the same family,
Speaker 2: and COVID can kick up other viruses, can you can
Speaker 2: reawaken ebstein bar and so some of the same anti
Speaker 2: virals that work for the viruses can also help with
Speaker 2: long kovid. So I'm so glad that's helping you.
Speaker 1: All right, Thanks, I hope that helps a little bit.
Speaker 1: We're going to give this number you can call them
Speaker 1: from Texas to tomorrow as well.
Speaker 7: Okay, I'm fine, I'm fine, but thank you very much.
Speaker 7: I just wanted to share that.
Speaker 1: Thanks very much.
Speaker 7: Thank you, thank you, damn thank you.
Speaker 1: Okay here and talk to you soon. Let's go to
Speaker 1: Michael and Medford. Michael, you're going to wrap the hour
Speaker 1: for us.
Speaker 5: I think go right ahead, Michael, Okay, I just yes,
Speaker 5: I agree with very good. I'd recommend anyone to watch it.
Speaker 1: I have no idea who you're talking about here, Michael,
Speaker 1: if you want to publicize someone else, why are you
Speaker 1: calling my show? I have a guest who's an expert here.
Speaker 1: Do you have a question for Julie Sullivan?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 5: Also Hydrochael.
Speaker 1: We got about thirty seconds left if you want. If
Speaker 1: you want to ask a question, go ahead.
Speaker 5: Hydroxy clorcoin Is that being used for long COVID or.
Speaker 7: Prevention?
Speaker 5: Still?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: No, that's also been really discounted by the researchers for COVID.
Speaker 2: And you encourage people really to go towards the ones
Speaker 2: that have been shown to work against the COVID virus specifically,
Speaker 2: and those are things like the anti virals and sending
Speaker 2: our things are prescribing out of Long COVID Center. So
Speaker 2: we really encourage people to contact the Long COVID Center
Speaker 2: if you're looking to get help, because we can really
Speaker 2: help you focus and get the right treatments.
Speaker 1: Thank you for your call, Michael, Julie. Let me give
Speaker 1: that number one more time. Folks write it down, Rob,
Speaker 1: make a note of it in case anyone needs to
Speaker 1: call you. Six one seven five two five three six
Speaker 1: six five Julie Sullivan, As always, I appreciate your work
Speaker 1: for you, it's a labor of love. Thank you for
Speaker 1: doing it, and thank you for joining us tonight.
Speaker 2: As always, thanks for having me. Nice to see you,
Speaker 2: Nice to talk to you.
Speaker 1: All right, Julie, we'll talk soon when we come back.
Speaker 1: Right after the ten o'clock news. I've got an announcement
Speaker 1: that I think some of you might be very interested in.
Speaker 1: I will explain, and we'll also talk about the New
Speaker 1: Hampshire US Senate race. New Hampshire once again may become
Speaker 1: a battleground state for control of the US Senate. Back
Speaker 1: right after the tent