Speaker 1: Welcome back, everyone to a new episode of You Were
Wrong with Molly Hemingway, editor in chief of The Federalist
and David Harsani, senior writer at the Washington Examiner. Just
as a reminder, if you'd like to email the show,
please do so at radio at the Federalist dot com. Molly,
let's just jump into it. The story is a few
days old, but I was really upset about it. I mean,
for obvious reasons, but for maybe deeper reasons as well.
The murder of two people called them diplomats, but they
were two workers at the Israeli Embassy by a leftist
from whose name Michelle Goun mentioned here by me from Chicago.
The victims were Jaroleshinsky, a German born Evangelical Christian, and
his American girlfriend, whose name was Sarah Milgrim. They were
murdered in front of the Capital Jewish Museum. I felt like,
sooner or later I knew this was going to happen,
and I don't think it's the last time it's going
to happen. When you create a blood libel, which I
think a lot of these people believe about Israelis, and
then many of them Jewish people, and you support terrorist
groups that come as people in your movement are sooner
or later going to engage in terrorism themselves. And that's
what happened.
Speaker 2: Well I was. It happened as I was flying to
Poland to visit Holocaust sites, and so frequently we think
of terrorism and things like this as mostly occurring in
other countries, and it's just horrific to see it happening
not just in our country but in the city where
I live. And all the details that have come out
about it are also horrifying, I mean sometimes a little contradictory,
so I don't know exactly what happened, but claims that
he mingled with people beforehand, or mingled with people after
he committed the crimes, that he was so proud of
himself for murdering two innocent people, that he's an American
born and raised individual who learned to hate to the
point of murder. Here, it's just sickening and awful, and
at the same time it's not the most surprising. As
you said, we have been dealing with a lot of
people acting like this is justified. This type of behavior
is justified, the type of political vallence is justified. And
also I think the language about the war between Israel
and Hamas has been so wrong, like the way that
people talk about it as if Israelis are held to
a different standard on war than like every other country
on Earth, which is getting really disgusting even to talk
about their war plans as genocide when you know, just
kind of need to say it again. Hamas attacked Israel
on October seventh. They killed twelve hundred Israelis. They did
it at a time of a peace fire. Israel has
responded by attempting to eradicate Hamas. Hamas, which is, you know,
not like they have free elections there, but is the
generally supported political group in Gaza has been engaged in
horrific behavior, including like not letting their people leave. Other
regions probably should be doing a much better job of
allowing other regions that border, like Egypt, should be allowing
Gazans to go in there, particularly given the rhetoric of
Egypt and other neighboring countries about the situation. But it
just showed to me, it does show how important it is.
War is awful and evil. What's happening to Palestinians, including
innocent Palestinians who are basically trapped by the evil Hamas.
I mean, it's horrible and you want more to end,
which is why there should be a lot more pressure
on Hamas to unconditionally surrender return all hostages and hostage bodies.
And you know that's just not happening. Sorry, I'm kind
of rambling, but it's just so upsetting.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I mean, the talk of genocide in Israel,
or that Israel's perpetuating a genocide against Poustin people is nonsense.
But I just want to give you an example of
the kind of blood libel I'm talking about. A few
days before the shooting, NBC News reported, without a hint
of skepticism, a United Nations report that said fourteen thousand
babies were going to die in Gaza from starvation in
a forty eight hour period. This is NBC News. They
took someone's word, the UN and they put it up
two days fourteen thousand babies. Any editor, any reporter with
a brain, would know that sounds really implausible, right, you know,
let's look into this further. No, they just printed it
because in this situation you can print anything you want
about Israel in this sense. Anyway, it turned out it
was untrue. The UN retracted the claim. The report that
came out said that fourteen thousand cases of malnutrition and
children in general, not just babies, may happen over a
year's time if aid did not reach Palestinians, which surely
it would. And this is the kind of this is mainstream.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: It's not even like all these people online who say
crazy things are just not just this, but report anything
the Hamas says about death tolls. Now, I'm not saying
there aren't innocent people who die in this war.
Speaker 3: There are.
Speaker 1: It's horrible like Hamas in their death tolls make no
distinction between fighters, Hamas fighters and civilians, you know what
I mean, Like they're not.
Speaker 2: Because they embed their fighters in the civilian population because
they apparently hate their civilians, point that they don't care
if they get killed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Sinoar, I mean the former head of Hamasu's now dead,
said that we have them right where we want them
because of these deaths, because fellow West, you know, fellow
travelers in the West will use this. They martyr their
people on purpose. And the next Sinoar who was running it,
another guy named Mohamed Sinwar was killed very recently in
a tunnel under a hospital or right next to a hospital.
So it's very difficult for Israel now. I think they've
made a ton of mistakes. They should have wrapped this
up a long time ago. They should have gone full boar.
I mean, maybe Biden stopped them, but no, you know,
I don't know what's going on behind the scenes. But
obviously it's been six hundred some days since October seven,
twenty twenty three, and they're still at it. Can't go
on forever this way, But yeah, I mean when this happened,
I just saw to myself the Intifada is coming here
like there was BLM. Those rye were the most expensive
in history. All many of those people just latched onto
this new cause they know nothing. I'm sure if I
went down to one of these protests and spoke to
these people, they would know nothing about the history or
situation in any real debt, you know, depth it's just
oh white. You know, a white colony has you know,
oppressed dark skin. You know, everything's identitarian. Everything is stupid.
Everything is pushed and like into this mold in this
argument that they make. So sooner or later, there's going
to be some unhitched people who engage in real violence
like this, I mean, this is this is assassination of
two people in the streets of DC.
Speaker 2: Hold on on the identity thing. I was thinking about this,
like America really is unique in having an identity based
on something other than like the most narrow ethnic claim right,
Like from the very beginning, even if we were all
mostly almost you know, like really beginning would be like
all white Europeans, it was still people from a few
different areas or countries, and it grows quickly to being
just something where people are coming to escape religious persecution
or otherwise. And all these other countries, including Israel, are
very like identity focused. And you mentioned BLM, which is
a very big identity focused movement, which seemed at odds,
which is at odds with the American understanding of individuals
and more and more, it just seems like we're in
this collision course between identity and other values, doesn't it.
Speaker 1: Or no, Yeah, I mean people, you know, critics of Israel,
real critics of Israel like an ethno state, Like it's
a problematic because it's ethno state. Now, first of all,
Israel is very diverse in other ways, and including their
religious population to some extent, but every state's in ethno
national state other than the United States. As you mentioned,
like Germans make up, there's a German language, it's a
German country. Yeah, you might let others in, but it's
very difficult for others to become German. But here, yeah,
we are allowed, you know. We There is an American
identity and it's built on ideas, but it's also built
on the land and the country and the people. But yeah,
anyone could become an American if they accept embrace those ideas.
I don't feel like and this will I think segueus
into the next thing that a lot of young not
young people, but a lot of the left, some of
the right don't really feel that way about America anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, also maybe it's like we've I was saying
about this with regard to what happened with the fifty
nine South African farmers who are facing a very targeted
killing effort in South Africa and they're getting disposed of
their land and stuff, and so fifty nine farmers came
to this country and it was so weird to see,
like they come, they're waving American flags, They're very grateful
that we're taking them in because of the situation that
they're in in South Africa, and the Left like lost
its mind over this. They were so upset that South
Africans might be considered refugees when clearly they fit every
definition of a refugee. And then I can't remember if
it was Trump or someone else who was saying something
about how they a group like these white South African
farmers will assimilate very well into the United States and
it's so obviously true, and people got really mad about that,
like just language wise, culture wise, just like general values wise,
it's clearly true. And then you realize, like, oh, the
Left has not been caring at all about assimilation, Like
they don't care about the cultural values held by people
from different parts of the world and how well that
that will work in like a small town in Ohio
or Nebraska. They just haven't cared about it at all.
And it's enraging to see that. So sometimes I think
we down play that we do have a strong culture
here with strong values that forms like an ethnicity of
a kind. It's just not based on skin color.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Yeah, I mean Europe has this problem. They
invited a bunch of mostly Islamic refugees. You'll notice, of
course that the Syrian refugees, we had this deep responsibility
to bring them here and bring them there. But Palestinian refugees,
they must stay in Gaza forever, you know, as a
cunjul ince Israel.
Speaker 2: But anyway, so can I talk a little bit about Poland,
even though in my turn, so Mark and I went
to Poland and visited Treblinka and Mydonic and Auschwitz and
the scene of the Warsaw uprising and Lublin, and it
was a really heavy trip, but we but we also
were just traveling. We're traveling by vehicle through Poland and
staying in places. And it was really interesting because it's
so close to Germany and in so many ways has
a very similar feel as Germany, but as much smaller population,
and it does not seem to have been welcoming immigrants
other than Ukrainians to the country like it you could
just like look around and see like this is not
a heavy immigrant entry population and related it was crazy
how cohesive the culture was, how everyone was just generally
like following the same rules, generally respectful, It was clean,
it was it was just really interesting. I see the
cover of the economists this week, and this week has Poland.
It's like Poland rising or something like that because they're
about to have a higher GDP than Japan or something.
Speaker 1: I I haven't read that capita per capita, but yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, per capita, and I don't know. It was just
it was it was interesting to see a country that
does not have a ton of immigration from the Arab
world or Africa. Like I saw one covered woman the
entire time I was there, and where I live, you know,
in the DC area, of course, it's like every day
you see women in full dress, full coverage.
Speaker 1: Eastern European countries are less open to that kind of immigration,
you know, including Hungary, which is the central European country.
But like I wrote a book about this, the EU
was built. They even mentioned George Washington and their founding document,
like they were built kind of ape the United States,
both in trade and as kind of a cultural federalists
kind of thing. But the French and the Polish are
not the same. You know, I can go to California
and I will be fine there. I will understand the culture.
We'll have the same stores, we have the same language. Yeah,
they are of course regional differences and they're great. I
love that. But Poland has a different history than England,
you know what I mean. Like, I think you're right
about the South African So of course when you have
Western cultural values, you can assimilate better and all that.
So if you're moving from Poland to England, you probably
assimilate better than when you're moving from Syria to England.
And I don't believe there's genocide in South Africa, but
it's definitely genocidal rhetoric against white farmers and they are
definitely being pushed out off their land, and the government
definitely looks the other way. This happened in Rhodesia, which
was an African country in the seventies and sixties that
it's GDP per capita was up there with European countries.
Then they confiscated all the white farmers land. It was
a racist country for sure, but instead of integrating society
and making it great, now they're one of the poorest
countries in the world. And this is where South Africa's headed.
I couldn't believe the crime rate in South Africa. The
murder rate is the third highest in the world. It's
incredibly dangerous to be there. I think like Hondorism and
maybe Jamaica have a higher murder rate in the world,
So our country is heading downhill.
Speaker 2: I also, this is totally random, but do you know
the Kiffness, the guy the Kiffness, he did this song
about where he took Trump's words about eating the cats
eating the dogs and turn it into like a really
catchy song. Yeah, and he does this with all sorts
of songs. He'll take like just weird things he hears.
And anyway, he's from South Africa and so he has
been going off on the attacks on the white people
in South Africa and he's very concerned about the situation
there and the current political party, in the leadership of
the current political party, and it's.
Speaker 1: Just it's also like situation. Yeah, it's also the history
of South Africa is not that easy. There was a
lot of black immigration at South Africa. The white people
were there for a very long time. Whereas you know,
it's complicated. And one of my favorite movies, Breaker Morant
is about this. But yeah, these people see everything through race.
Speaker 4: Turns out in Congress, we have a UNI Party.
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Speaker 1: Be informed.
Speaker 3: Check out the watch Dot on Wall Street podcast with
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Speaker 1: I guess this would segue for me at least into
a situation at Harvard, and I'm going to talk about
MPR as well. Trump administration the other day pulled the
rest of funding kind of help for Harvard, and also
I believe suspended its ability to take foreign visas. I
think the Trump administration is going to now vet them
or their social media count stuff like that. Harvard is
suing and so on. I guess I saw David French
on MSNBC saying that the Trump administra I don't have
the exact quote, but something like the Trump administration is
undermining sort of constitutionally protected the freedom of speech and
this and that by targeting Harvard, I guess I would ask.
I guess I would say a few things. One thing
is that I just don't believe a private institution has
any right to taxpayer funding to begin with, I don't
believe a private institution has a constitutional right or I
have some kind of constitutional duty to fund speech I
don't like. And third, I'd say that if Harvard had
a racist marches going on and black students were being
targeted and made to feel like they couldn't be there anymore,
I wonder if David French would be on MSNBC talking
about constitutional rights. Now. I'm not saying that Harvard can
have racist marches if it wants. It's a free speech,
but should I or you or anyone else have to
fund that effort? And lastly, on this, they Harvard in
places like that undermine American values, They undermine the assimilation
that we were talking about. They prop up people hate America.
So why should the government of the United States let
that place or help that place flourish in undermining what
this country is about. I just don't see any reason
for that.
Speaker 2: This second Trump term has been so revolatory for me
in ways I didn't expect like learning how much my
money funds the NGO environment that employs all of my neighbors,
you know, to push left wing ideas. The funding of
Harvard alone is just shocking to me, the number of
contracts that we have with them, the money year after
year that they get, and they like to claim their
private university and that that gives them the right to
discriminate against white people and men or you know, they
say that the control everything we know about the way
the law is interpreted. They have the right to be
racist and sexist and stuff. But then they say that
they're basically a public university because they're so reliant on
my funding of them and your funding of them for research,
research which by the way, does not really help anybody
and frequently harms people. Here's why transing your kid and
permanently removing healthy body parts is good for them, you know,
that kind of research. And then they also say that
they need did you know what percentage of the Harvard
class is foreign enrolled? Is enrolled from foreign countries?
Speaker 1: I know, I don't. Columbia is very high, almost half
or some crazy number of well it's not.
Speaker 2: That much, but it's more than a quarter. And it's like, Okay,
so you want to say that you're this great institution
for America while really one out of four, more than
one out of four of your students, you are helping foreign,
wealthy foreigners basically at the expense of Americans who would
like that kind of you know, supposedly premier education. And
nothing I've heard from Harvard has made me more sympathetic
to them. I would like them not to be the
only school that the government disinvests from, unentangles itself from,
if they're doing this kind of funding at public universities
or other universities. You know, yes, I'm at Hillsdale where
we do not take any federal funding, and we excel,
by the way, but we do it with this unfair
disadvantage competing against all these places that are just getting
massive amounts of tax payer funds.
Speaker 1: Well, I do think there is some good research obviously
done at universities, and if there was a way to
funnel money into legitimate scientific concerns, that would be great.
But they've left his appropriated science on climate, on gender stuff,
on a bunch of other issues as well. There's so
many dumb social science studies going on. It's mind boggling,
you know, So I agree with that, but I wanted
to talk about the visas. I'm not against foreign students
coming here, but I do think that maybe we should
start reforming that system to focus on maybe stem degrees
or doctorate and then maybe asking people coming here on
visas to invest in this country in some sense, to
stay on for a certain amount. I don't I've never
I've thought this through. But having you know, rich kids
coming here from China and Abu Dhabi or whatever paying
full right, all these students are here because they pay
a full ride and it's good for the you know,
monetarily works for the school, doesn't really help our country
in any way. I don't know. I've said this a
million times with My parents are immigrants, and they wanted
to be here, and they wanted to be Americans, and
they invested in themselves in this country. And I don't
know why we're letting so many people. So I want
people here want to be here, not people who just
take from us. So I don't know how to fix
that system, but there's something wrong with Columbia has I
think around thirteen thousand foreigners on visas, how many of
those people are marching, you know, in anti American marches.
I mean, there's no reason for a step fifth columnists here.
And yeah, the money, it's two point two billion that
we were giving Harvard and now it's another like four
hundred and fifty million. Like I get that in the budget,
in the gigantic budgets we have, that doesn't seem like
a lot, But in the in the real world, that's
a lot of money. And what does Harvard have like
a sixty billion dollar It's a sixty billion dollar head
fund to be done.
Speaker 2: I'm close to that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they could be paying every student there. Every
student could go to school for free there for probably
what fifty years? They could probably afford it our one
hundred years. I don't even know. That's not my thing.
But also I agree with you, why just Harvard, why
not other former elite institutions that have just been completely
subjugated by ideology. Now again, I'm sure there are a
lot of smart people, you know, in scientific departments in
these elite schools that we should be helping. But maybe
it's Harvard's job now to write the ship and to
earn our taxpayer dialisam a right to it, and that
they're suing. Makes me think like they're pretending it's some
kind of First Amendment issue, but I just don't see
it that way. Again, if Harvard had clansmen marching every day,
they wouldn't get money, you know. So I'm not sure
why prohamas people marching there every day targeting Jewish students
that I should you know, be funding that. And also MPR.
Speaker 2: So I was just going to say, NPR also claims
it has a First Amendment right to taxpayer funding.
Speaker 1: I think we spoke about this a few weeks ago,
you know, I just the NPR. Here's my think. NPR
says in their suit that the law, the sudden loss
of all federal funding would be catastrophic, catastrophic for NPR.
Without federal funding, NPR would need to shutter or downsize
collaborative newsrooms and rural reporting initiatives, et cetera, et cetera.
A few weeks ago they said, yeah, NPR defenders are like, oh,
it only takes you know, only one or two percent, Yeah,
exactly its budget, and now all of a sudden, the
whole thing's going to collapse. NPR is the second, I believe,
largest radio network in this country. Again, I think some
of their stuff's pretty good. It's well produced. They have
a lot going on. Their newsrooms are completely leftist. It's
their right. But again, why should you and I have
to have to, you know, subsidize their leftism or anti
Americanism or whatever, or their social values. I just don't
see why. And I think their claim and Harvard's claim,
is that they're being targeted over speech. Well, what other
media institution gets money from the government. They're the only
ones through you know, one institution. Right.
Speaker 2: So I watched this clip of Brian Stelter explaining the
NPR case because they you know, Sue is saying, they
have this First Amendment right to the federal funding from
you and me, and he said, so, the reason why
they did that is because the Trump administration, when they
announced the stopping of the cessation of these funds, noted
that NPR is very biased, and so NBR denies that
they're biased, which is hilarious. And they say that that
shows that they are being punished for particular speech and
you can't do that according to the constitution. So therefore
they have the right to the funding. And I just
love this, Like, how far would NPR take this approach
that because they cannot be punished for speech, they can start, yeah,
Mark doing KKK marches and nothing could happen to them,
start advocating for KKK ideology and nothing could happen to them.
I mean they do already, right, they're very, very racist,
and they're very supportive of you know, Hammas and BLM
and all sorts of racist, extremist terrorist ideologies. But it
was like, wow, that's quite the hutspah of you guys.
Speaker 1: Well, the only reason they have money is because they're biased, honestly,
I mean right from the start this was run by
the left basically. And I'm gonna sound like a paranoid
right wing guy right now, but even their shows that
I watched growing up were filled with left wing messaging,
you know, from Sesame Street on I'm sorry, and there's
no reason for us to.
Speaker 2: I kind of think of it as like a subsidy
for wealthy white people because they did it, used to
do a lot of like British drama, you know, things
that most people wouldn't like, but that like wealthy white
people certainly like. And to this day, you know, they
seem like a wealthy white people of course.
Speaker 1: M pr is just a it's a radio network for
for upper up you know, upper middle class and upper
middle class white people for the most part, uh, middle
brow British shows on PBS. Why do I have to
pay for them? You know the whole thing. I was
thinking about this or maybe I wrote about but you know,
they don't want their eyes sullied with like a Burger
King commercial. And while they're watching like down Abbey, you
know what I mean, So I they're like five.
Speaker 2: If it's like this was brought to you by.
Speaker 1: Lock Keith Martin, you know, and help from this found
leftist foundation and that leftist foundation. And I'm good with that.
You want to have that kind of programming, it's fine.
And by the way, I wish that the Trump and
Ministers and hadn't hung its entire case because the headline
on the EO is bias, right, it matters the bias,
But we shouldn't be giving them money even if they
weren't biased. There is no reason to be giving hundreds
of millions of dollars to very successful private enterprises. And
we should defund him. I mean, Congress should be doing my.
Speaker 2: Gosh, can we just say that again? Like it's getting
very frustrating why Congress is unable to do anything, including
defunding NPR and PBS, which is something they've talked about
for decades. And it's not just this Congress, it's like
every Congress has been such a failure. They're so weak,
so cowardly. They don't know how to they don't know
how to lead and help people through a change like
the defunding of NPR PBS.
Speaker 1: I mean that budget that they just the House passes
a monstrosity. I mean the Mike Johnson gave into the
assault faction, you know, where we subsidize rich people in
blue states and incentivize them to keep raising their taxes.
And on the other hand, the fiscal conservatives got nothing.
Now I would call them a faction, but there's like
two of them. Even Shiproy voted for it, because what
is he going to do. You know, he's going to
sit there and stop the whole budget. One guy, he's
not going to do it. Only person who voted against
it was a libertarian guy's.
Speaker 2: Name Thomas Massey.
Speaker 1: Massy I don't like those guys very much either. There's
a lot of grant standing and not enough coalition building,
like they need to pull together people in some sense,
like Massey just raises money. He says no all the time,
like it's not going to do it, doesn't do anything.
You're not helping your cause. Really, in my view, you
have to like get involved in some way to try
to like say, well, look at this program, look at
come up with a plan that people can maybe join.
I don't know, I don't know. It feels like a
lot of but anyways, just.
Speaker 2: Get annoyed at even that though they're like eighty loser
Republicans for everyone, Thomas Massey and people complain about Thomas
Massey or Chip Roy when they're actually trying to do
something to protect our budget, and nobody knows by name
all the evil people who are like I'm not going
to vote for this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you know, I don't know. I'm just
saying that I am much angry at the people who
just pass all this stuff. But you know, and I
think Chip Roy is actually a more serious person. But
the White House says we're not adding to the deficit.
It's just nonsense. It's going to be a probably going
to add around three trillion to it in over ten years.
The highest ratio to GDP debt since World War Two.
It's just unsustainable. I don't think anyone actually cares about it.
It's just a lip service no one ever wants. If
people actually cared about politicians would feel compelled to do
something about it. But no one wants to actually cut anything.
And here we are, and I'm sure it'll pass the Senate.
We'll see. There's a lot of talk, but I don't
think anyone will do anything. Do you want to talk
about James Comy for a bit? I know you always
want to talk about James Comy. He was on MSNBC recently. Well,
let me take it even a step back from that.
I think it was last week or two weeks ago
where he was walking on the beach and took a
picture of.
Speaker 2: This eighty six forty seven.
Speaker 1: Yeah, eighty six forty seven. Anyone who's worked in the
restaurant business knows means, you know, kill it, and uh,
obviously forty seven's Trump. Now what was his Do you
know what his excuse was for that? Did he put
those together or he said he just ran across it
on the beach or what was it?
Speaker 2: Yes? I think he was like my wife saw them
and we were like, oh, what is this interesting number?
There's numbers that we don't know what it means. And
then we kept looking at it for a little while,
and then we said, wait a minute. I think my
wife worked in restaurants, and so she knew eighty six
meant you're out of shrimp, and forty seven that's the
number of the current president. And so we thought it
was just a cute and whimsical thing that we happened across.
I just want to say, I have to assume there's
not a single person on earth who believes that they
happened across this seashell formation, right, I don't. I don't
think like any person with a pulse thinks they happened
across it. Like do I think maybe the white arranged
it and not comby possibly, But it was one of them,
one of the two of them. And they had bought
store bought shells because like I love to comb the
beach for shells, and they're very hard to find, all
the same color and size, and they were big, and
they were you know, they looked like they bought bottomint
Michael's or hobby lobby and put him, you know, arranged
them and they came across them, and he lies and
says that Lizon says that they came across them. It's
just an amazing, embarrassing, like such a if my children
did that, I'd be like, do not even try to
come at me with this week stuff. But we were
all supposed to believe that he didn't know that the
guy who used to prosecute mob criminals for whom the
lingo eighty six means to assassinate or to kill, and
the guy who was under all these different presidents didn't
know how we number presidents and it was just like
such a mystery to him, and he just came across it.
Speaker 1: I guess the most charitable explanation would be he means
like end his presidency, I guess, But anyway, he's he's
such a weird and guy, I think.
Speaker 2: Hold on, just of course that would be the most
like charitable thing. But even that's not great, right, how
do you end to presidency through another coup, through another
lie like the Russia collusion lie that you perpetuated even
though you knew it was false for years. Like that's
a really disgusting, evil like prosecutable thing to do. Like
when someone does not deserve to be out of the
presidency and you're calling for him to be ousted like
that doesn't does not like, oh, it's charming, he just
meant end the presidency. But also, the context here really
really matters. And the context is not that James Comy
is some loser who's never read a book or seen
a TV show so he didn't know what eighty six meant.
The context is that James Comy is the form FBI
director who knows full well what eighty six means in that,
you know, in that environment, and who has already been
in trouble for trying to illegally oust the very same president.
And this president has been a victim of two assassination
attempts so in recent in the last year. So it's
not just like a oh, best construction as he meant
and the presidency. It's like, the context really does matter here,
and the context for James Comy could not be worse.
Speaker 1: I saw a story today that someone in the Biden administration,
the shadow government, let's call it, of the last administration,
said that they believed that undemocratic means were okay to
stop Donald Trump because Donald Trump was a fascist. Essentially,
Now you and I have probably written about this for
ten years already, that that government does this and this
is their excuse and justification. But it just reminded me
immediately of call me and probably the reasoning that goes
through his head. He was on Jensaki's show recently called
Republicans white supremacist adjacent. And I don't know if you've
ever watched this Jen Saki interviews, but they are the
most They're all such softballs. I mean, she is just
terrible at pretending to be a journalist. I just can't
I don't know how her ratings are or whatever, but
I can't believe she has a show anyway. I want
to add that.
Speaker 2: I don't watch MSNBC. Maybe I should, but yeah, when
he went out there and claimed that the Republican Party
was white supremacist adjacent, it was just a great reminder
of what we've gone through in the James Comey story
going back a decade. And when I first started criticizing
James Comey, like ninety nine percent of the response I
would get would be like, he's a Republican appointed by Republicans.
Like if you're criticizing him, that must mean you're a
real Trump sickophan, and I just want to say, you know,
eight years hen, I'm feeling pretty good about all the
things I said early on about what a smarmy loser
he is, Like it is embarrassing that anybody like him
has ever been in a position of authority like that guy.
Speaker 1: Is.
Speaker 2: He's not bright, he's conniving. He has no like virtues
that I can speak of, and he's displayed that throughout
his career. I mean the Martha Stewart thing being a
great example right where he wanted to get a high
profile person related to insider trading and didn't get her
and charged her anyway. And what did he charge her
for lying to an FBI agent about how she hadn't
done insider trading, meaning that he didn't find that she
had done any insider trading, but that he found that
she'd been deceitful because she said she didn't remember something
that she surely would have remembered. Oh, I don't know.
Likes claiming that you can across a bunch of shells
that said eighty six forty seven, and that you just
happened across them and you didn't put them on put
them down there yourself, and that you had no idea
how they got there, like that kind of lie. So
I really wish that when the FBI talked to him,
that they had charged him with lying to them when
he made that, when he presumably made that claim to them.
Speaker 1: Remember also, like everyone around there around that time, running
our intelligence operations, running our institutions of law enforcement, like
John Brennan, like James Clapper, they were all just corrupt
liars Like John Brennan deserves to be in prison. James
Clapper lied to the American people under oath, probably deserved
to be punished in some way, and they all got
away with it. None of them faced any kind of
I mean, James called me, I saw I was in
a thrift shop looking at books, and there's his thriller.
He's writing books, probably making a ton of money. He
was rewarded for it. He was rewarded for it. Can
we talk about your if you're ready, Can we talk
about your trip to Poland a little more?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I don't know how much more to say, but it
was a very quick trip. Left after last week's podcast
and flew into Warsaw. Which you have you been to Poland?
Speaker 1: I have not.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I'm going to highly recommend people visit Poland,
but I can't say that Warsaw is the most beautiful
place I've been. It was destroyed in World War Two
and then it was rebuilt by the Soviets who who
occupied the area, and so it's just a lot of
that Soviet style architecture, like the kind you see on
the outskirts of Prague or you know, in Berlin, and
just really ugly, nothing to nothing remarkable to look at.
But on the other end, there's also a lot of
new industry in Warsaw and so high rises, and it's
just it's pretty that way. And we saw the scene
of the warl uprising, which i'd first. You know, I
don't remember when you learn about all this stuff, but
I just I remember thinking about it a lot when
I went to Yad Vashem, which is the Holocaust museum
in Israel, and they have an extensive, extensive area devoted
to the Warsaw uprising. Because a lot of people know
that most Jews, when they showed up in concentration camps
or death camps, they had no idea what was about
to hit them. But toward the end of the war,
word had started to get out about what happened if
you were taken by train to these camps, and so
it helped produce some uprisings, including the famous Warsaw uprising,
where a lot of young people tried to get guns
and bullets in order to fight back against the Nazis,
you know, ultimately unsuccessful, but still kind of a highlight
of that era when everybody else was just being marched
into the gas chambers without knowledge. And then we went
to Triblinka, which I think more than eight hundred thousand
Jews were killed in Triblinka are under nine hundred thousand.
And what's interesting about oh, Actually, first we went to
this town I think it was called Tinton, and it
was a good example of how the Holocaust began, not
with gas chambers, but by rounding up people in small
towns in schettles and taking them and just putting bullets
in them. So Holocaust by bullets. And so we saw
three mass graves for the Jews of this town, and
we also saw their synagogue, which was like a sizeable synagogue.
And I think they were the majority of this town,
like a bare majority of this town. And it was
interesting to see how many people regularly come out to
these mass graves, which are in the middle of a
forest like miles outside of this small town to honor
the people who were killed by bullets. And then we
kept going and we went to Treblinka, Sorry, And what
was interesting about that is that was like a full
gas chamber situation, but they had just the Nazis had
destroyed every single building associated with it, and so you
can go and see where, you know, nearly a million
people were gassed, but you don't see any buildings or
evidence of it. And someone I know, his great grandfather
and other family members were killed there. So that was,
you know, interesting to be there at that site. And
then we went to the town of Lublin, which was
a really thriving, like again not predominantly Jewish, but a
sizable Jewish population city, and right near there is this
death camp called Mydonic, where I think because the Nazis
had kind of ceased using it as a death camp
before the Soviets came and took over the area, they
didn't feel the need to destroy every building because it
wasn't like currently in use at the time that the
Soviets were coming. And so it's like a remarkably well
preserved camp. But one of the things that's interesting about
it is that there weren't that many people killed there,
by which I mean only like eighty thousand people were
killed there. But you can see the gas chamber and
you can see like the blue from the cyclon ze
is what is it called cyclon b B on the walls,
and you can see where they cremated the bodies and
where executions happened. Also that was being inside those buildings
is one of the worst experiences I've ever had. I mean,
I just haven't felt that kind of evil around you,
Like there's no eradicating it. And it's just terrific to see.
Speaker 1: Thinking about the like industrialization of killing people, it's just
so mind bogglingly evil, you know, and you.
Speaker 2: Know you can't help when you're there, but just to
imagine you're the one who's in the camp or you
are trying to protect your children, and how helpless you
would be and how awful. And we also went we
also walked around Lublin and we went to this theater
that's kind of it's good as it sounds like, as
Mark said, if you'd told me I was going to
experimental theater today, I would not have been happy, but
it was really well done. They just took like little
vignettes stories and you know, did it to a violin
and a base, and it was so moving and touching
stories like from scraps of paper that people had found
in these sites. And it was really beautifully done and
nice because like Lublin, which used to have so many Jews,
now has basically one, and this theater is done by
Poles just in honor of their former neighbors, like not
that they were alive when this happened. But and then
we went to Auschwitz, and that was we got to
go in early before anybody else was in to Auschwitz one,
which is, you know, it has all these barracks, barracks,
barracks full of people, and that was more the work
camp of Auschwitz. Auschwitz two is the death camp where
they killed more than a million, and the torture that
they were engaged in. And also it was so weird
to see these like sort of beautiful brick barracks been
it had been Polish barracks before the Nazis took it over,
and to see what they did to in these buildings
and the tortures that they did and we got to
see this cell where Maximilian Colby was. He was the priest.
They used to do this thing like if someone escaped,
then someone else from the unit would have to be killed,
and they chose that person randomly, and they chose someone
who had a wife and kids and he was begging
for his life, and Maximilian Colby said, well, I don't
have any wife or kids obviously, and I'd be happy
to take his place. And so he took his place,
and they just tried to starve him in the pit
of one of the barracks for weeks and he didn't starve,
and so they ended up injecting him with fent. They
injected something into his heart. I can't remember what it
is to kill him. And you know, so you see
these like just stories like that or the sites where
they would execute people. And then we went out to
Auschwitz too, which is sort of the famous thing that
everybody sees in movies, and that was also just horrific
to see, you know, some of the gas chambers there,
how big they were. We did go into a gas
chamber at Auschwitz, which was the first place that they
used it figured it out, but it was much smaller
than the ones at Auschwitz two, and I don't know,
it was just I would highly recommend going on a
tour like this, where you see these places and you
know it's not that long ago, Like I kept thinking.
My mom was born in nineteen forty six. She has
an older brother who was born earlier, like if they
had been in Poland, this could have been them.
Speaker 1: My grandfather was an Auschwitz work count, who is my
step like my step grandpa, he brought up my dad.
My actual grandfather died in Austria, probably you know, a
slave labor. They're not sure. It's sort of just disappeared.
My grandmother was on a train. She escaped somehow and
was hidden by a Catholic family in Budapest. They were
sort of very, very weird to say that someone's lucky
during the Holocaust, but the Hungarian Jews were maybe the
last great big population taken, so they probably would not
have survived if they had been one of the first.
And Iikeman was famously you know, in Hungary doing that.
So anyway, I've never been to these places that we tried.
I went with my dad years ago to try to
track down where his dad had died in Austria, but
to no avail. But I would I don't think i'd
ever go to Auschwitz or any of these places.
Speaker 2: Was hungry the last because they kind of not switched
sides during the war, but they'd been kind of with
the Nazis early on, and then when the Nazis began losing,
they kind of dropped away. Is that why?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think there was some actually, and that don't
get me wrong, there are plenty of unfortunately in Poland
as well, Penny, people who were happy to go along
with this kind of thing, but I think they were
somewhat resistant to it initially and then yeah, as the
war turned they lost. It was it's just to think
about the evil obviously, Nazis are so evil it's almost like,
you know, we just say it, but think about this
the war. They know now that they're probably going to
lose the war, so they accelerate their extermination project.
Speaker 2: Once they realized that things are going very badly, rather
than try to figure out a way to like lose
in the best way or possibly and when they just
devote all their resources to being like, no, we've got
to eradicate the Jews.
Speaker 1: To me, like you mentioned these mass shootings that they
did out in the woods in shallow graves. To me,
those almost more horrific because it's just more the it's
the industrialized thing. It's hard to wrap your mind around
it or your morality around it, right, But when you
actually someone has to walk up to you, shoot you,
shoot your children, and that, you know, they stop doing
that because a lot of soldiers I think couldn't really
do it anymore, so they wanted to sort of yeah,
an esthecizeable things. So anyway, it's a horrific thing to
think about, and honestly, I mean, this is why I
think Israel is so important. So for me, like the
Warsaw Ghetto, I always say, you know that it would
have been different. The Holocaust would have been different if
Jews had had been armed like they are. Let's say
they can be here. Now. I'm not saying it wouldn't
have happened in the end, but those Warsaw Ghetto fighters
held out i think from over two months and they
only had like a handful of rifles and stuff. Do
you know what I mean? It's not that easy to
kill people when they're armed, and people, you know, I
get such blowback when I say stuff like this. But
even now, I think Jews everyone I think, but Jews
should arm themselves if they can.
Speaker 2: I don't remember who wrote it, but Tablet Magazine, which
is a great magazine, had an article that basically says that, like,
the number one thing Jews in America can do right
now is arm themselves and get firearms training.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't pronounce his first name. Leo Libowitz wrote that,
Lyle Libowitz. It's an excellent PC. It says, I think
it's arm yourself or something like that. No, hope they do. So.
Speaker 2: Also wanted to mention that we flew out of Crackow
and Crackou is a magically beautiful city. It's the opposite
of what I said about Warsaw, where it was like
ugly architecture. Crackow has beautiful architecture from many hundreds of
years ago, many many hundreds in the castle with a
dragon's layer, which is pretty awesome. I had to get
my God sent a little dragon toy for that. And
beautiful people, beautiful everything.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: When I was in the central square of Crackout on
Sunday after leaving Auschwitz, there was a small pro Palestinian
march and it was not like it was not a
welcome site. It was small, but it was still just like,
really people here of all places. And I went on
the trip with Guy Benson and Mary Catherine Ham and
Kennedy and Emily Campagna, all from Fox News, and it
was they definitely had the same reaction. I wasn't with
them at the time, but they were saying when they
saw the Palestinian marchers, they were like screaming at them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Eastern European countries, you don't really see a lot
of this pro Palestinian stuff because a lot of it
is driven by Islamic immigrants there, I think, and politicians
who have to now kowtow to them in places like
Britain and France. Anyway, hard to segue from the Holocaustic cultures.
Speaker 2: There was one more thing I was gonna say. One
of my problems I always try to understand different arguments
that I can better combat them. It's such a basic
part of discussing with someone is that you try to
understand where they're coming from. And I have struggled so
much to understand anti Semitism. It just doesn't make sense
to me. I never grew up in a way that
it would have made sense that, you know, it's not
something that would make sense in my family or anything
like that, but there was this little thing that kind
of there's a little a little thing I picked up
in Poland that I've just wanted to ask you about.
So even now, like if you go to Auschwitz, they
will separate out the groups of people that were killed.
They'll be like, it was this many Jews, this many Roma,
this many Soviets, this many Poles. And by the way,
Poles there is like the second biggest group, and it
was a lot of anybody who was part of a
Polish resistance was killed, which was a lot of people,
and so they lost a significant percentage of their population
as well. But they separate out Jews from Poles. So
it's like Jew whether you're from Poland or Hungary or
Germany or Czechoslovakia, you're in the Jew camp.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: And then also like so when you're talking to Poles,
they will speak this way. When you're talking to Jews,
they will speak this way. And I was thinking about
that and about how to preserve the Jewish ethnicity requires
a certain degree of separation from the larger community, right,
I have no problem with this by the way, because
as a Lutheran, we feel the same way. Like I
was brought up to believe, like, I'm Lutheran, we live
in America, We're very proud or happy to be American,
and we're very patriotic, but we're first and foremost in
Christian So but like it was such a pronounced thing.
I don't even quite know what I'm asking here about.
Like I think I think they were viewed. They were
viewed as like separate from the political community in a
way that was dangerous for like the Nazis.
Speaker 1: Obviously, well we talked about this before. It's like here
it's different because I can be Jewish and I'm American
and it's perfectly acceptable and fine. But in Poland it's
not the same, especially when you were the only group
that's different, right, and people and Jews who convinced themselves
that they were going that they were Hungarians like my grandparents,
they were in for a rude awakening when things went south.
And so, yeah, there was a separation, but it was
often instituted against Jewish people by who, you know, the
ruling class. Now, honestly, this is not an attack on
Lutherism or you, but Martin Luther wrote a book that
was wildly anti Semitic about Jews because he viewed he
was I think, I'm not lecturing you on this might
be wrong, but he viewed them he thought they would
come into the fold with, you know, with him. So
I think a lot of people in Europe, if you
read the Bible, I mean, the Jews don't the New Testament.
The Jews don't come off well, you know, And I
think that that's part of the.
Speaker 2: Actually funny as in the Old Testament they don't come
off well. They're always described as like hard headed or
stiff necked and you know, immediately rebelling against God. Yeah. No,
Martin Luther wrote a book called On the Jews and
their Lies, So you can kind of pick up from
the title there what the general take is. And it
was his belief that Rome had so obscured the Gospel
that once Jews heard the Gospel purely taught, they would
of course immediately all convert in Mass. And so he's
like at the beginning of his ministry or whatever, when
he really just things like Jews, the problem is, they
haven't heard the Gospel, they haven't learned about Jesus, they
haven't had it been clearly taught from how Jesus is
the promised Messiah. And so he starts out like really
eager to preach to them, and then when they refuse
like the message, or when they reject Jesus even after
learning about it, then he just turns and he's like, well,
these people are very like it's not just that the
Catholics had suppressed the Gospel, it's something worse. And so
he had some very bad things to say, and then
that was used. I mean, that was really it was
like a theological argument, as was so many things that
Luther did. But then the Nazis ended up using that
literature as a way to say, like, see, there's a
long history. Even sainted Martin Luther, you know, felt this way,
when of course Martin Luther never would have supported killing
anyone for faith reasons.
Speaker 1: And you know, in medieval times or whenever you had
a king in a kingdom or whatever, and it was
intricately tied to faith, it mattered a lot. And it's
a theological idea, right. You know, you had wars fought
constantly over between Catholics and Protestant nations and so on
Orthodox nations, between Islamic nations and Jews didn't have were
never a power. So if you had to blame someone
for as being a fifth columnist or undermining the nation,
like Hitler did for instance in World War One, he
blamed Jewish banks, you know, officials whatever.
Speaker 2: And on the banking thing, I love this that the
laws would be set up so basically Jews were the
only people allowed to do banking, and then they get
blamed for being bankers, do you know what I mean?
Like they would be like, oh, well, we will let
them do the U three because we're not supposed to
do it, and then they do it, and then they're
like and look at these people with their banks and
their finance. It's like, well, you did set up a
system where that's how it was going.
Speaker 1: To work well anyway. So you think about the Ukrainian,
the pale in Ukraine and all these they were like
very poor, you know, but they were part of blamed
and kind of in a collective way for what like
rich German bankers were doing were Jewish.
Speaker 2: Like I mean, I always have you heard those quotes
from Lord Rabbi Jonathan Sachs which are kind of about this,
like there the Jews will be blamed for being poor
and for being wealthy, for being communist and for being capitalists,
Like is you get blamed on both sides of the things.
Speaker 1: That's awesome that you went. It sounds like it was
really enriching in a way. Oh it was sad.
Speaker 2: I would highly recommend like the two things. One would
be visiting death camps and concentration camps. Like you can
read about it so much and I have, and it's
not like I've really learned anything totally new, but to
go through it and experience it is something altogether different
and it's while worth. It's not that long ago. You know,
people should be worried about something like this happening again.
And also like I think people should approach it with
the idea of how is it happening again right now?
You know, what are the things that we do in
our own lives too look the other way or to
not fight as much as we should. And then secondly,
highly recommend Poland as a country to visit. It is beautiful,
the people are wonderful, the culture is great, and I
would just say, get crack out on your list.
Speaker 1: It's crazy. I was born less than thirty years after
the Holocaust, right, And I'm still around and my dad
was born in nineteen fifty two, so when you in
nineteen forty two, I'm sorry. So when you say it's
like near, it's it's crazy how near it seems so far.
But it's the things that we did not very long ago,
as you know, as humans as kind of nuts. But
I heard a rumor that you watch like a lot
of movies, so I'm really excited to hear what you
have seen.
Speaker 2: So you know, it's a very long flight there, in
a very long flight back. So I have seen so
many movies it's ridiculous. And I'll just start. I'll just
go in order conclave.
Speaker 1: You saw that, right, I did not. I heard bad things.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 2: I thought it was pretty good actually.
Speaker 1: Okay good And from like Catholics, I heard bad things
that that's.
Speaker 2: Funny because I like the Catholics that I and my
children know were recommending it. It does, I mean, it
bends with something really like stupid basically, But the whole
process itself, I think did an accurate job of showing
how politics inside the church works. And I have a
little bit of knowledge of that from Lutherans side of things,
and I liked it and good acting. Okay, then I'm
still here. Did you see that movie I'm still here.
Speaker 1: I'm still here. Remind me of sense so familiar it was.
Speaker 2: From last year? It is Oh my gosh, sorry, I
don't know. If it was it was so good, I
would I would just say it is a really beautiful
movie about the disappearance of a Brazilian congressman like in
the seventies and how his family endures this. So he
was a communist or communist jacent to use James Comy's parlance.
But it's a beautifully done film, beautiful cinematography, wonderful acting,
and gets a little rushed at the end. But other
than that, it is it is.
Speaker 1: It earns a ninety seven on Rotten Tomatoes, just a
very high score.
Speaker 2: Okay, it was. It was check that out fun to
watch it. I mean, I'm not like the biggest fan
of subtitled movies or anything, not like I don't like them,
but it just was gripping the whole time. Okay. Then
I watched A Better Man, which is the Robbie Williams biopic.
Speaker 1: Oh, where he's a like chimpanzee or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I have to say it kind of worked.
I don't really know who Robbie Williams is, and I
think the problem with why it didn't do well in America.
He's up there.
Speaker 1: I was like, why would I watch this movie? Like
it's an interesting concept, but I don't know anything about
this man. I couldn't name you a song he sings.
Speaker 2: I wonder he was in a boy band and it.
Speaker 1: Must have been a long time ago, right.
Speaker 2: The songs themselves actually seemed familiar, like rock, DJ Okay
and Angels and all sorts of I mean it was,
but anyway, it was a well done movie, and it
is really about the demons that affect pop stars.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Then I saw A Real Pain, A Real Pain, also
a movie from last year. Sorry. It was about these
cousins mother dies, and it just seemed like the right
thing to watch because I just done it. And it
was actually very interesting because like they start off in
Warsaw and then they go to Lublin and my Donic
and so like they're standing in exactly the same places
where we had just stood, and it was kind of
funny to watch that.
Speaker 1: Did you like it? I thought it was okay, but
kind of I don't know. I felt a little empty after, like.
Speaker 2: I did like it. I thought it was well done.
I think I had. I went in assuming it was
going to be bad because I heard a lot of
bad stuff about it, and I thought it was I
thought it was actually really good.
Speaker 1: What it's got Kieran Kulkin is that how you say?
His name is Jesse Eisenberg who directed it, and they're
both pretty good in it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Then I watched it Chris Farley documentary, Oh nice, and
I did not think it was good. It was like
done by some TV network, I don't remember which one
it was, and it just was It just did not
bring him out in a way that I found very
moving or anything. But it did talk a lot about
all of his drug and food addictions and stuff.
Speaker 1: I was legitimately sad when he died because he was
just to put him out himself out there so easily,
and it was always just so funny watch him on
his cn al when I was younger.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love him. And then finally I.
Speaker 1: Watched Pig Oh I want to see that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nicholas Cage and that was also very good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been wanting to watch it.
Speaker 2: I think it's you like how for months When we
do culture, I'd be like, I have not watched anything,
seen anything, read anything, because I was just a heavy
on the book. And I'm like, I watched six movies
since last week.
Speaker 1: How long was this flight? It must have been so long.
Speaker 2: Well, there were two flights, right, so it was like
seven hours over to Frankfurt and then it was I
think nine hours back, So there was just a ton
of time.
Speaker 1: I went one time, I went to Brazil and it
was a long flight and they only had one movie playing,
and I watched it like four times. It was the
King's speech. I knew I could recite the whole movie
to you. Well, I did not do as much as you.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: I watched a show, a new show on h on
Apple TV called murder Bot, and it sounds like sounds
like something, it's not. It's actually a science fiction show
with Alexander Scarguard. Is that I say? His name is Scarsgard?
Really funny and good. One of my children tells me
she read the books on this, so it is a
good show. So if I see a book on any
kind of like music or celebrity, I usually will read
it really quick. So I read a whole book on
James Gandelfini that just came out, which was if you
liked it, it was good. And then on apple Ash
I also watched something called Found of Youth with Natalie
Portman and Krasinski what is his first name from the office,
John Kristinski. It was called a Fountain of Youth. I
was not a fan of it. It's kind of derivative
of Raiders of the Lost Arc and that Nicholas Cage
movie where I forgot what it's called, where he's kind
of chasing down all the signs and the Declaration of
Independence and stuff national treasure.
Speaker 2: But so I was excited by this, thinking that this
might be a movie I could take my children too.
But I see it's directed by Guy Ritchie, so that
makes me nervous.
Speaker 1: It is perfectly family friendly, I think, as far as
I remember, it is not. I don't think it's in
the movie theaters. I think it's just streaming on the Apple.
It is terrible in my view, but my wife thought
it was okay, So maybe it's just me. I just
I just I just thought there was no real I
think Natalie Portman might not be a good great actress.
I'm starting to think she's very fat ready she's pretty,
and there was no real chemistry there, and I guess,
I guess the outcome like in the first five minutes,
who is going to be the bad guy in this?
And that? So I don't know do with that what
you will? Okay? If you'd like to email us, please
do so at radio at the Federalist dot com. We'd
love to hear from me, and we'll be back next week.
Until them be lovers of freedom and anxious and the
pray