Speaker 1: Speaking of don't want that. That was the what happened
this past couple of weekends joker. You guys thoughts on
before we get some trailers, We did our predictions. I
were alluded to it. We're like, oh, yeah, and that's
it's not gonna be as bad as Marbles or aw
command Wall. We were right. It was wasn't as bad.
It was worse. Yeah, So yeah, it had a camera
with the opening weekend end up being it's like thirty
seven million. The originals close, it's I can't remember where
it is. I got all my facts off right now,
but it's it's I think it's like, oh crap, I'll
find it after. But either way, it was like thirty
I think it's like seventy seventy five somewhere in there.
Speaker 2: So thirty seven not a good start.
Speaker 1: And then it beat the Marvels this past weekend for
the worst drop in comic book history with eighty one percent,
making an a measly seven million dollars this weekend and
it's second weekend, which is kind of crazy. You got
Lady Gaga Oscar in a movie success. You know, the
first big time success was the biggest bread our movie
until dead Pool Wolverine came out and this kind of happened.
So I got two things to ask for you guys,
because I tell us.
Speaker 2: Have been on trust.
Speaker 1: So I got like, because I don't have too much
more to say other than what I'm gonna say based
on your opinions, one just your.
Speaker 2: Thoughts on this, and then two I pulled up in
Trust told you.
Speaker 1: And since twenty nineteen, DC's had seven movies that have
like Disappointed, underwhelmerre just bombed. There's three I didn't count.
I didn't count The Batman because I just Famin's on
his own thing. And I didn't count two Side Squad
in One Room in two because those came out den
in the middle of COVID. They're also in Warners. It's like, yeah,
we don't know what those would have done, right, But
like these other movies were like in a like since Joker.
The Last Joker was like their last like big, big hit,
and it's just it. I find it very curious, Like
what's gonna happen next July with Superman because you know
the confirmed day Crypto's gonna be in Superman. So if
you like dogs, hey, you know Superman's dog's gonna be
in there, so hopefully I'll get some people, you know,
just like Noel right.
Speaker 3: Kirkland, but parents love nol and they love dogs, so
they'll be there.
Speaker 2: Good.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see them rocking those Null shirts
next time I see. Oh yeah, get them that for Christmas.
Speaker 4: Oh you know, you know they already have it.
Speaker 3: It's too late.
Speaker 2: What do you make this mess, kirk One?
Speaker 4: What do I make of this mess? I'm I'm curious.
Speaker 3: I wish I could peer into the little magic mirror
and just see what this would have done comparatively to
if it wasn't a musical. I'm like, I know, reviews
weren't great going into it, and some people that I
was talking to, just like at work for example, that
I feel like they like comic book movies, but they're
not like super into the like they're not following all
of them. They were like telling me, they're like, oh, man,
Joker too, it's gonna bomb, Like it's gonna be it's
gonna be doing terrible, and like that was just the
vibe I was getting from some more you know, non.
Speaker 4: Podcast people, some people that are a little bit more
general general audience, and.
Speaker 3: I was still kind of I guess optimistic because of
just the numbers of what the first one did and
because Lady Gaga and just how shocking that first film was.
So this is like really surprising to me actually, like
the numbers, I maybe didn't think it was gonna do
the first like the same numbers as the first, but
to be at the drastic drop off level that it is,
that that's very surprising to me. And uh, yeah, I
wish I could just see the multiverse of like even
if it's the same quality of a film, but just
it's not a musical, like if that shifts a lot
of people's interest in actually seeing the movie. I know
a lot of people choose to avoid a movie if
it's a musical, like they just really don't like them.
And I don't think the musical aspect is like what
broke this movie. It's not my favorite part or like
you know, maybe I wish, maybe I wish it wasn't.
I I love seeing Lady Gaga perform, but just for
the overall story, I don't think it really make make
or break the movie. Maketh the movie, maketh or breaketh
the movie. So yeah, surprising, and uh, I don't know
was there part B of that the future of just
you know DC.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like now it's like I feel like even in.
Speaker 1: The years we talk about BVS and Suicide Squad, like
all those movies, it's like the venom thing, right those
are making tons of money, like close to billions of dollars.
Right now is the case where it's like it's not
even though they arguably might have had some like better
like quality ones and some of those movies back.
Speaker 3: Then, But I I I don't think it's like real
like alarm bells are going off right now, at least
for like my perception of DC. Maybe maybe I don't know,
maybe that's the common talk of the town right now,
but I think people should just settle down. It is
early still in like the gun rain of and uh
and what's Buddy's name that I forget the partner?
Speaker 4: There you go, Peter Big Pete.
Speaker 1: Their project has their first project comes out in December,
Creature Commandos, which I don't know if it will be
a newscast next week, but there is a New York
Comic Con this week, so they James is gonna be there,
So people are kind of hoping there's gonna be a
Superman teaser. I don't think so, but because they did
release a photo of him and Crypto and they already
got the assembly cut like there were that thing's like
gonna hit its date, like it's going good.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think that maybe this just is putting
more like focus on on DC and their upcoming film.
So that being said, I think there's a lot of
pressure on the Superman release. I think that's the big
big one that although I don't think alarm bell should
be going off right now, if that bombs is like
I don't know, six out of ten, like sixty percent
of on Tomatoes, Like, I think that's a big concern
because that this is like the first this is their
poster boy, right Superman. It's like it's like their biggest
ip next to Batman. So I really think that one
needs to hit out the gate.
Speaker 1: Do you think I'm not trying to be hyperbolic, because
I'm sure some people may argue, like I have some arguments,
but like, do you think this is the most important
release for combook movie? Not like quality, but just for
like the direction of a studio, even just in our podcast.
Speaker 3: Now, like not considering like retrospective, like thinking like yeah,
like in the timeline of movies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I know someone might be like, oh, it
might be like Infinity War or Anging. But I think
even if those movies sucked, they were gonna make money,
maybe not the money they made. The only one I
really feel like is and yeah, not retrospect, because you
can't look at Dark Night and they like, oh, look
at what it did. Like I don't think people are like, fuck,
if Dark Knight bombs, it's over for back, Like I
don't think it was that. The only one I think
maybe was like Avengers at the time, like if that
didn't work, maybe that was like, oh shit, then all
our plans are gone. But like, I don't think the studio.
I can't remember last of my directors had this much
pressure on because I guarantee you that whole company is
breathing down that guy's fucking neck to like this has
to this has to be a hit. It's like there's
no way of center. But it's like that's what sucks, Like, oh,
you can't make a good movie and try to make
a Profit's like no, this has to be like a
fucking winner. And as we've seen, like you can't guarantee
that he had stuff like Indiana Jones last year losing
three hundred dollar three. That's a good not too bad,
like three hundred million. Like there's massive ips like Mission
Impossible that just don't do well, just randomly, you know,
And it's like, now you're gonna tell us that Superman
suppos to come on and be a big hit.
Speaker 3: It's like, I think I would agree with that statement
then that this is like the most kind of important release,
I guess, because yeah, especially like you bring up the
Configure War Endgame. It's interesting just thinking back to that
era because it like no one really believed that those
could fail because it was just like everything was the banger,
it was ramping up, everything was just going so well,
and we're in like the golden there, Like you couldn't
see it going wrong, even on the DC side, right,
Like that was around when Wonder Woman, h Aquaman, like
those were like billion dollar films, maybe not ten out
of ten movies, but like across the board, I think
a lot of people still really enjoyed those, so it
just you couldn't really see it as a failure. Whereas
now we're in like this rougher patch. Whereas like of
course the Phase four stuff that happened with the MCU.
But on the DC side, like we've already talked about
some of these these titles that are underperforming. And then
definitely I think with all that being said, I would
agree with that statement that this is the most pressure.
Speaker 1: The definition of too big to fail.
Speaker 4: You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, It's that's interesting thinking
about the importance of it makes me maybe we're like
I in the fact that going into this, I feel
like James Gunn and the team, uh James Gunn Saffron
of the team have they announced so much before they
did anything, before they even broke round, they announced like
ten projects and then like added five or six more.
I feel like over the over the years, and it's like,
I don't know, maybe that is a good strategy in
terms of getting people hyped and getting people invested in
those first projects because you want to invest in it
because there's gonna be this future to it. But I
just feel like, man, there's so much potential there for
like a huge disappointment for a ton of people if
this movie does bomb, and we like if a if
a couple of Marvel movies bomb. We're in a position
where Disney has so much money that it doesn't really matter,
and it will matter at some point, but it doesn't
matter yet. But DC and Warner Bros. Are like constantly
on the ropes. Like it feels like any time they
finally like get back in the fight a little bit,
they just get knocked out again. So it just feels
like the margin is so much lower. And then so
as you mentioned, that's where the pressure comes in. So
that's something that I'm thinking about. It's just like, man,
if they announced all these things and none of it happens,
and you know, even Marvel has announced things that maybe
won't happen or to be canceled, it's hard to remember
all that kind of stuff. It happens all the time.
But to the extent that they announced things and got
people hyped and doing all these slates and whatnot, We'll
see what happens there. But yeah, I mean I think
that with Superman like, they're probably gonna go pretty hard
on the marketing. But you know, if you increase your
marketing budget by an insane amount and then that makes
it the movie has to do that much better. I
I do think it is an uphill battle in the
sense that the cast for it are not known people,
and you know, look at Joker that is known people.
It's Oscar winners, it's people who have played this role
before in a very successful way. So that doesn't necessarily
sell a movie either, but I think for something like
Superman it could, especially if people are still reeling off
wanting Henry cavill. I don't know if that's the case
for the general audience or if that's just the hardcore
DC fanboys mm hmm, but yeah, I mean, I don't
know what else there's there's to say about the Joker bomb.
It's insane, like totally unprecedent the amount that it is bombing.
We'll see if it picks up, but like these things
don't typically pick up later on, you know, there's a
morevious meme. They put it back in theaters, but still
no one give.
Speaker 2: A shit, and it's gonna be streaming in fourteen days.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly right, So it's like they've almost it's like
they're already like planning the funeral, you know.
Speaker 2: At this big way.
Speaker 4: So it's crazy. But like, at the same time, I
don't think the marketing was good for the movie. I
don't think it's a movie that needed to happen at
all based on what the first movie was, and you know,
maybe they had a bit of an angle for it,
but like, I feel like I'm a perfect example of
this where I am like exactly the kind of person
who should have been extremely excited for that movie, and
I do a podcast where review movies and I still
just didn't even want to see it, And I just
bought my ticket for Venoms And what does that say
for the state of like where DC's at and what
they did a joker here, So yeah, it's it's there.
It's a very precarious situation. I hope for their sake
that Superman does very well, or at least well enough
it doesn't. I hope it doesn't bother I guess at
this point, I hope that makes like a profit, even
if that profit's only like one hundred million or something,
because yeah, I do want all the DC fans to
get to be able to see out this vision that
Gun and the team have been planning, so hopefully we
can get there. I mean, I don't know if Creature
Commandos hopefully is one of those things where it's okay,
low investment, low risk situation and it's more of like
a soft launch for the brand than anything. So yeah,
Superman's obviously the main testing ground there.
Speaker 1: I look at this as like a like a prelog
or a prelude, not a prelog. I put epilogue, I
put pro I put the words together. Yeah, like kind
of like a oh, here's what the world's kind of
like and a dalton ass.
Speaker 2: I thought.
Speaker 1: Gunn said he wasn't announcing anything without script. No, nothing's
going into production without a script.
Speaker 2: So he's announced these things.
Speaker 4: He didn't even say this million things I don't want.
I don't know what now, he's.
Speaker 1: Only announced that first slate. All that other stuff that's
come out is nothing.
Speaker 2: They they've confirmed.
Speaker 4: But that slate was like what ten twelve things.
Speaker 1: I think it was eight.
Speaker 2: I think it was eight. I could be wrong.
Speaker 4: Round up to ten, okay, so it could.
Speaker 2: Be ten twelve, could be ten twelve.
Speaker 1: But no, no, no, it's fair enough. Still, there's still enough.
But yeah, you got Coman I was out December, Superman's
on July, and then both Supergirl and Green Lantern or
just Lantern. Sorry, they're shooting in January. So those first
those first four things that they talked about, those things are,
they're happening, but yeah, they said they're not gonna got
a production.
Speaker 4: Even the Bolt is further down the road.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for that one, I think is gonna shuffle a little.
I think they're still figuring out all that stuff.
Speaker 4: Feels like one you kind of expedite, but I mean,
I know they all they obviously Batman two.
Speaker 1: Is happening so well, tough, and when Penguin's doing well,
I think I think there just might be a feeling
of like, well, do we even fuck with the Batman
stuff and just let them do their bat like and
then you can always put the Batman in a cinemic universe.
And it's like my feeling with Wolverine and X Men, right,
like you don't want to lead with them at any
point you can bring them in. It's like a shav
adrenaline and be like, oh Man X Wolverine's in the
X Men, Now this is super hype. Like I think
I don't think they would, but I think it'd be
really bold, and who knows. Maybe what would help is
if a Superman is just a mega hit, you could
go like, okay, maybe we do a just like move
without Batman. We don't need him right now, we can
just keep passing doing his thing. Don't mess with that
penguin's doing like great numbers, Like that's I think it's
tricky with all this stuff and where he's like, yeah,
we got into the show happening and then we go
out the trilogy. It's like that's a long, Like that's
that's a that's a good amount of time. And I
guess you could have a Batman at the same time.
We've never done that, right, I do want to see
that experiment, But maybe they also feel if they're Joker,
they want to be less risky. I don't know, so,
m yeah, Tad, what about you run us off here?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 5: I think that you already highlighted this the fact that
this is going to be the SuperM is gonna be
the first movie that's kind of under the Gun umbrella.
So I think that that's. Yeah, that's nice because that
means yet Joker Too has no real implication or effect
on that. It does affect the brand in the company,
but it doesn't affect James Gun and what he's going
to be moving forward with because for him, it's like, well,
that movie was that was greenlit before he came into
the picture and it's just that's its own entity.
Speaker 2: It's whatever.
Speaker 1: So I.
Speaker 5: I I'd be inclined to see like what the GA thinks,
Like do they know like, oh, these movies are not
all connected and the same thing, like the same universe,
Like when they see the Penguin Show, do they think like, oh, well,
this is this like Joker or fully A David Lady Gaga,
same world or whatever. It's all Batman, right, Like, I
just wonder what the limit is and the line that's
drawn when it comes to the GA looking at the
this kind of stuff. Because when Superman comes out and
I think it's been it's it's good that they're leading
with Superman because it's been it's been a good minute.
I mean, we've seen, obviously Henry cavill appear in other projects,
but yeah, twenty thirteen being his movie, But Henry Cavile appears.
Speaker 1: Last time I led with a DC to start the
or Superman to start the universe, you know, so.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like well over a decade and the last time
he appeared obviously is Black Adam, which is recent but
not everyone's gonna make that. You're not gonna click with
that when they think Superman they're thinking Reeve and they're
thinking of the Man.
Speaker 4: Of Steel movie.
Speaker 5: I would put Man of Steel before Batman versus Superman
because that one, like it's it's a fun movie. But
I think people still the gay would gravitate, Oh yeah,
the Man of Steel movie with Kevin Costner and YadA,
yah YadA. So when you look at this being kind
of like a a leading film for them to kind
of introduce while we've got so much other stuff going on,
you guys highlighted already, we got Penguin and Batman's they
can kind of like just step off of that for
a little bit and they can just focus on a
character we've not had for a while, especially with super
role too. Like when I saw that photo of like
Crypto and Crypto right is his name the dog? Okay
Crypto ah, and then seeing Superman like it just maybe
it's because we're going through our Superman retro, but I
got big re vibes looking at that, and I just thought, like, Okay,
there's definitely an energy here that he's gonna be the
gun is going to be pursuing, and I think this
movie is gonna do really really well. I think it's
gonna got hair in my mouth. Good Lord, got it?
Uh yeah, I I it's unfortunate that Joker has performed poorly, especially.
Speaker 4: For my draft pick.
Speaker 5: But at the end of the day, it was one. Yeah,
it's costed me.
Speaker 2: It was his number one, say top draft pick.
Speaker 5: Yeah, three timer done, two timer my borderlands down here, Taylor,
I'm with you down there with Joker, fucking.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna when we have, uh, when we have to
do our next draft and going to look. I think
that has I'm not trying to clown on any too,
but I think that's been the lowest. No, like this
would be like the lowest number one draft pick ever.
I don't think like I feel like we're no for
like the number one.
Speaker 4: Pick, your number one Kirkland definitely, because I feel.
Speaker 1: Like all the movies we take in the past, usually
one and two, like they usually do relatively well. Even
if they underperform, it's not like, oh, it's a bomb,
so I'll have to look. But I see what the
closest was. But I saw that as like, oh, I
knew somebody had it, but at the number one Spottom, Hey,
that could have been me if it if it changed order,
Because I think we all thought, Okay, it's maybe not
gonna have a billion, but it could.
Speaker 2: It's the I think you were a second so I
think you had had.
Speaker 5: My first pick was Deadpoolverene and then you snaked it.
You lucky son of a gun. But yeah, no, it's
at the end of the day, Like I was optimistic
for Joker too to be a little bit a little
bit better, but I was going in a little bit
excited too because it was a musical. But yeah, it's
just the sheer drop off that it's had just blew
my mind. When you guys are dropping, like the articles
are just like yeah, oh it's going to digital now
and stuff. I'm thinking, like, man, that is crazy, And
I just feel like, Okay, it is the faster, it's
on digital, faster, it's out of theaters the faster. It's
not going to be in the limelight anymore, and we
can just move on to the next project like we
already have. Like Gun dropped that Superman photo and you
said Travis's near a comic con, so I feel like
their publicity is just going to be growing hard for
James Gun's umbrella.
Speaker 1: Well, and I don't think it's an accident that the
Monday after the first Joker weekend. The Monday after is
when they confirmed the Green Lantern castings. I don't think
that's a mistake at all. I think they just want
that good press, like what do we have that we
can confirm and get people not to talk about this
because that then the yeah, sure it's not James Gunn's movie,
but still technically, if it's DC Studios and you and
Peter are the president, you adopted those, you know, those projects, right.
So it's like because at the same time, even if
let's say Todd Phillips fucked off said hey, I'm not
going to do another Joker and this made a billion, right,
Like then it's like, oh, well that's money, more money
we can play with. That's a more success. But now
it's coming from another thing, maybe the I guess maybe
I could see the the The Devil's Advocate way that
maybe James Gunn looks at this and he's like, hey,
the bar is super low, and it's like, even if
you can just hit like a five hundred million dollars movie,
it's like, yeah, well we'll take that, you know, because
like The Batman almost eight hundred million, So like it
did very well, but again, I says in trastally, I put,
there's millions of people around the world when you talk
about the GA and what they know, like, millions of
people don't know where Batman is. Batman's just a character.
They don't know he's in DC with just like probably
a little more now because that movie happened, but still
like they they don't know. The Batman is above all.
I don't care what peop want to say about Superman.
He's above those characters. And yes, Frans and everything Spidy
the exact same way.
Speaker 4: Random question, how much how much do you think Walking
Phoenix made for Joker too? Like, oh, I think his
individual paycheck.
Speaker 1: I think it's out there. I think it's at least
fifteen million. I think something close. I think I think
it's something like right, I could be wrong.
Speaker 2: I think it's like Marlon Brando numbers.
Speaker 4: It is because I was looking at the budgets, Like
the first Joker budget fifty million, the second one is
two hundred million, so they spent four times as much
money to make it, which makes sense. Just I would
have thought Walking in Todd would have made a lot
more money just for those two alone.
Speaker 1: He got twenty million, and then I'm pretty sure that
Todd got twelve and then oh no, sorry, so him
and Todd both got twenty, and then Gaga got twelve.
So right there, that's about fifty two million.
Speaker 4: Obviously seen the movie. But man, how come the budget
is that much higher?
Speaker 5: Then?
Speaker 2: But you gotta think about that.
Speaker 1: The first Joker costs fifty five million the budget for Todd,
Phillips and Gaga's that's the budget of.
Speaker 2: The first movie already, like just their salaries, right, Okay.
Speaker 4: So then you spend one hundred thousand, they still spent
four times as much. Like it's insane, Like I haven't
seen it, but like is it is? It is the scale, like.
Speaker 1: In saying there's something sets, there's like there's some big
musical pieces and everything.
Speaker 4: I feel like that alone is a big issue, even
if they expected it to be a huge movie. Yeah,
that seems like they got way too much money to
make that.
Speaker 1: I don't know. And the ending has some like bigger stuff.
But yeah, I again, even if this movie does what
it does now where it's.
Speaker 4: Gonna lock at him in the movie with the rock
and that's of course, yeah, he jokers O fifty million
for him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. Like that is the funny thing though, Like
if you were to keep this one at fifty five million,
even if it's like under reforms and there's like two
hundred million, it's like, well you probably still make a
little bit back, you know. But at then they do
they care? The three that got those pay days, It's like,
well you're gonna pay no matter what. Right, It's like, yeah,
they're not take like they're not taking Walking Phoenix is
twenty million.
Speaker 4: I imagine they're out now, like they they I don't think.
Speaker 1: They'd yeah do anything, No, they would, And I don't
think gun wants that. The rumors were that the Todd
Philips didn't really want to work with them, and I
don't think I don't want to work with them either.
Speaker 2: I just feel like.
Speaker 1: Vibes yeah, yeah, And I said, ster told you, like
what what what?
Speaker 2: What notes is?
Speaker 1: Right now? You granted could say like, yeah, Philip should
listen to some notes that James gunn game, but it's
like Todd Films directed a billion dollar movie, biggest rad armon.
Speaker 2: Meal time and one multiple oscars.
Speaker 1: It's like, and he's gonna come listen to like the
Guardians guy with no disrespect that but I'm just saying,
like that's probably they look great movie. Yeah, well that's it.
I guess that that's probably official the end for the
Joker talk. Maybe maybe there might be some talk come
Golden Geeks for a few it's done, dude, Do.
Speaker 4: I need to see it for Golden Geeks?
Speaker 2: The performance is still good, that's the thing.
Speaker 4: So I do you guys even cares?
Speaker 5: Are you?
Speaker 4: Are you so fired up about those performances that you're like,
I gotta have them.
Speaker 1: I have to wait tend you see the top fives,
but for both male and female as right now, I'd say, yes,
they're in there, but I'm not saying it's like they're
the winner picks. So I got to see a list. So,
but you might not have to watch if it's not
someone's recommend. You know, there's three of us, so you
get worst gates. If it does get nominated, watch it
after for the fact that.
Speaker 4: I don't want to be an irresponsible podcaster, you know,
so we'll know, But.
Speaker 1: You can watch it after the pot right, So all right,
let's take our final break and then we'll talk about
some treos.
Speaker 2: We'll beat it right back