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Speaker 1: What is up, fellow Siko's I am Dana Valley coming

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at you with my certified fantagon's co host, mister Grant Hughes.

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We are here to talk about the influx of NBA

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injuries and some of the teams. Not all we've talked

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so much about the Magic for instance, Fallini Bankerra, but

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some of the teams that we haven't really focused on

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a ton and that are impacted by these injuries. But first,

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because this might be a rough podcast for some Grant,

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how the heck are you? Can you shed some some

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silver lining for the listeners who are about to embark

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on what could be a pretty pessimistic journey.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean to answer your question and also provide

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a silver lining.

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Speaker 3: I'm good. I feel fine.

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Speaker 2: I don't have I don't have any iliac wing fractures

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as far as I'm aware, or anything interesting like that.

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Speaker 3: So doing good. Hey Dan, also follow up, how are you?

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Speaker 1: I'm good? I'm not injured either, So what's up with

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that podcast?

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Speaker 3: Over?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? I guess we can do. We care about the

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NBA teams. We only care if you and I are

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in fairly good health. This is do you find yourself

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before I throw it up on the screen, which is

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why I want to get into this anecdotally. I feel

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like every season I say that there are more injuries

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than ever and that this sucks. But this year I

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said that, but I couched it where I didn't couch it.

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I buttressed it by saying, but I really believe it

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this time, Like this isn't just me reacting in the moment,

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and the data kind of backs it up, But like, anecdotally,

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have you come away from this season even forget about

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the pre existing stuff with let's say Embiid and Qui

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as an example, independent of that, it just feels like

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they are up.

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Speaker 2: So I will say that I kind of treat the

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you know, every it's a matter of time every season

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until I don't know what the tipping point officially is,

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but before we get into like the ban injuries, talk

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are like, oh, can you believe it? It's another one.

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And I sort of react to that the same way

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I react to any fan or who anytime there's a

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discussion about like.

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Speaker 3: The officiating is so bad, and it's like, it's just like,

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we do this.

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Speaker 2: It's to your point, we do this every year, Like

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just I don't I'm not gonna be, you know, agitated

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by any of this. It's part of the whole process

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of going through a season. Except like anecdotally, it does

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feel like every day there's a new and it's not

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just like, you know, there's so many below the radar

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injuries like I you know, if you're not following the

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pacers closely, you might not you probably know the two

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centers tore their achilles, but it's like, oh, yeah, Aaron E.

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Smith and Andrew imhar are both hurt, Like that's you

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know which which honest? To be totally honest, I that one.

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Speaker 3: Slipped my radar up until a couple of days ago.

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Speaker 2: So and then the big name injuries are just like

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you know, they've piled up in a way that's really

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hard to ignore. So it does feel like there are more.

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And I'm interested because I haven't I haven't looked at

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the data you're about to throw up there, just to

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see like what some of that actually looks like quantifiably.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned the data, and the data says injuries across

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the NBA are in fact on the rise. Grant, who knew,

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we we just proved it. Some of this is interesting.

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So Tom habitshro of Yahoo Sports, where I got like,

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this is where I pulled a lot of the stuff

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he I wrote about and put it up on screen.

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Go check out the full articles on Yahoo Sports. He

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dug into a lot of the data. Has some stuff

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from Jeff in Street close on Twitter and Blue Sky

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I believe as well. That's always been a great source.

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And there was something that Jeff had published leading into

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the season where it said like the amount of preseason

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injuries were up, and so maybe that kind of subconsciously

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put it on my radar that this was gonna happen.

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The first thing that stood out though, Grant So. In

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year two of the NBA's player Participation Policy, star players

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are on pace to miss over one thousand games this season,

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with games missed by star players up twenty four percent

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compared to this time last year. That's a lot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's not anecdotal.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty straightforward statistical proof that I mean, yeah, that's

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that's it. Squares though, right, because you had Himbiid missing

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all that time, and you had Paul George missing all

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that time, and that's just the Sixers, and there there's

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a big chunk of star games that are that are Kawhi,

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Like we came into this with problems, so like, I

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guess it's not that surprising that the games missed are

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so have increased by such a large percentage, but still like, man,

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you know what, Sorry, I'll let you get to the

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next point a second. But it definitely has had the

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effect of like every night when you're trying to pick

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a game to watch, you can just there's so many

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that you just rule out because well, I'm not gonna

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learn anything from this, Like the three of the five

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best players on either team aren't involved, so like we

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skipping that one, I guess.

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Speaker 1: And we talked about this when we went into the

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Sixers last time. I think, what have we learned about

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the Sixers thus far?

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Speaker 3: Zero? Like nothing.

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Speaker 2: You can't even you can't judge the role players who

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are healthy, because it's like they're doing way more than

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they would if the if the key guys were available,

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and they're doing different things, Like it's just you can't judge.

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You obviously can't judge the players that are not playing,

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but it's kind of useless to watch with some exceptions

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the guys that are because they're just not in the

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roles that they're gonna occupy.

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Speaker 1: I will say it does look like jere McCain my

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pin out though, and that guy might be pretty good.

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So though teams through teams' first ten games this season,

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star players have missed a whopping eighty three games already.

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That's up from five total of sixty seven at the

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juncture last year. Now, again, this is so skewed by

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embating Kawhi. I think they use star terminology as being

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all NBA. So not having those guys at the start

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of the year definitely like deflates it, excuse me, inflates

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that number. That's still just I mean, you're looking at

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like consider just like, Okay Jokic is always just there.

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But we've already seen Steph miss some games. We saw

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Jalen Brown I can't remember if he made All NBA

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last year missed some games. It's just like and it's

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not like a I get unless they're changing the way

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they're reporting these because the NBA's new Star participation policy,

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But like these feel like real injuries. The other thing

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that's a little bit more of a longer point. In

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recent season, stars played about eighty five to ninety percent

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of their games in the month of the year before

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the inherent violence of the game grant began to take

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its toll on bodies and winter illnesses attacked immune systems.

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This season, player participation by star players as a whole

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is dipped below eighty percent, hovering around seventy eight so far.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think, you know, the inherent violence like

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jumps out as like, oh my god, what are we

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talking about here?

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Speaker 1: But did you seem of Karl Anthony Towns? Did Joelle

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beating Kelly bred Year?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 2: I was thinking more along the lines of, like, you know,

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Chet Holmgren takes an ugly fall, Ja Morant has an

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ugly fall. Who was a Dyson Daniels got taken out

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by Nick Claxton out of the air early in the season.

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Like I do think, and you do see data too

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that now this isn't has nothing to do with like

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collisions or violence or whatever. But like guys are just running,

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They're they're piling up more miles, there's more movement, So like,

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more movement inherently means a greater risk of injury. It's

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harder to get hurt standing still than if you're sprinting

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around a screen or whatever. And I do think like

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some of the way that the game has been officiated

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over the last you know, just compare it to how

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physical it used to be. Guys are flying in you know,

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and just like knowing that if they do get taken

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out of the air, I mean, the defense is disincentivized

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from doing that by flagrant twos and stuff. But like

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violence is a doesn't feel like quite the right word,

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but it does capture, I think, a sense of like

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there's just greater levels of athleticism and maybe like recklessness

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brought about by the fact that, like the league is

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increasingly like not a high contact you know what I mean.

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Like it just kind of the way the game's played

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now is so different and so athletically dynamic that I

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guess that seems to be.

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Speaker 3: Part of it.

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Speaker 2: That, you know, inherent violence is a good shorthand, I

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guess for that if you want to be real simple.

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But you know what I mean, do you feel that

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way too just watching how the game's played.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, without without question. And I also think,

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and maybe we'll say that for later, there's something else.

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I can't remember who had said this, but like a

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lot of it feels like it might be predating these

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players actually getting to the NBA, which could be contributing

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to it. But so my first thought going through this was, Okay,

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we're dealing with such a small pool of players that

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Kawhi and Embiid are going to skew these results heavily.

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But Grant, it's not only superstars or all NBA players

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missing time. Names like Check Holmgren and Christaps Porzingis they're

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banged up too, And just how banged up are these guys? Grant, Well,

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they're pretty They're pretty banged up. Jeff Stotts of n

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Street Closed dot Com has been public publicly tracking injuries

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longer than anyone in the NBA space. By his count,

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the numbers are swelling league wide, and not just with

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household names. His database shows that games lost due to

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injury across the entire NBA are already up six hundred

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and eighty six games in the first three weeks of

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the season. That's a dramatic increase from five hundred and

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seven last year, and that's a thirty five percent surge

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from last season, actually an up sixteen percent uh from

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twenty twenty three twenty twenty four overall. That's according to

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data provided to Yahoo Sports by stats. So that's and

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I think totally again when we do those news updates,

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which we're not doing at the end of this week,

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it's so much of our job, even like on the

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day to day when we're writing stuff, has been making

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sure that whoever you're writing about isn't about to miss

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a game that you need to kind of mention, Okay,

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he's been he's about to be out, but this is

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still happening. Or he's been out, but this is still happening.

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And I find myself double and triple checking that guys

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that I may have just watched the night before are playing,

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and that's become so much of just maybe my mental

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capacity while doing this is like well, like keeping track

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of injuries has become exhausting.

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Speaker 2: I wonder too if if you know, if what we're

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seeing like guys are guys like it's maybe maybe part

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of it is guys aren't actually like getting hurt more.

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It's just that when injuries do happen, teams and maybe

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even the players themselves and whoever they're like strength and conditioning,

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you know, their own individual teams because a lot of

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these higher profile guys like have their own trainer. That's

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like on the staff. Maybe they're just being more careful

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because everybody is looking at it as like a marathon,

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not a sprint, Like, oh, this sprained ankle might have

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been something you'd play on after missing a game, you know,

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ten years ago or what or two years ago, and

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now it's like that's a week. That's two weeks, and

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it's just it's precautionary. I'm just this is just total spitballing.

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But the numbers have been so different that, like, I

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don't know, it can't just be that guys are getting

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hurt more. It's got to be some other contributing factor

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of just maybe more like be more careful with the

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same number of injuries or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Well, this is this is probably now that I can't

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and I again I cannot remember who said this, but

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this is probably the space for it is they're contributing

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to this or believe that there's a symptom of these players.

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And I don't know how much that pertained. I mean,

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someone like Joelle Embiid it necessarily doesn't, but I don't

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know how much it resonates with someone like Kauai. If

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the era was the same then But when you're looking

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at somebody like John Morant as an example, or Zion Williamson,

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younger guys like Tyre's Halbert, and all of sudden, dealing

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with what we're gonna talk about, the pacers in little bit,

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dealing with all the like, dealing with back stuff now,

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the hamstring stuff last year. It's not again, there's not

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necessarily any proof to this, but their thought processes. These

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guys are playing so much from such a young age

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now because people are gearing their entire training, even necessarily

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before they get to the AAU circuit or like the

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AAU circuits are just so all consuming. When these guys

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are coming up and you're playing how many times a week,

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practicing how many times a week? And I think I've

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even seen some kids, some people with kids, and we've

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even talked about this because you have kids. Again, just anecdotally,

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it feels like you're rushing them from one sporting activity

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to the next. And when it's just leisure and you're

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not trying to push them towards collegiate and professional levels,

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it's probably a little bit different. But if you think

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it's exhausting, just kind of doing it as a leisure

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extracurricular thing, imagine what it's like at the level of

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when someone spots someone at the age of nine and

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they've decided like, oh, their path is going to be

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professional basketball player, And so I do wonder just how

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much of it is even before they get to college

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or the NBA, is they're just playing too much and

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there's extra You mentioned wear and tear before. Okay, the

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wear and tear in their bodies on the NBA is

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one thing, but what about the wear and tear they're

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accumulating before.

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Speaker 2: I can definitely remember coming across several similar you know,

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I don't know that i'd call them studies, but it's

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more like anecdotes of doctors that will look at like

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an eighteen year old AAU circuit player's knees and say like,

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this guy's got the knees of a thirty eight year

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old already type of thing, and that's got to do

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with specialization at an early age. Like that's you know,

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that that is a real thing where kids are being

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pushed earlier and earlier to be like this is the

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sport you play, period, you know, so I and especially

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if you're a high level basketball player, like you know,

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a McDonald's all American level or whatever, Like you're not

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playing very rarely. Are you also doing anything else? It's

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one thing all the time. And if you're in a

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you know, competitive AAU level, it's like you are playing

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a half dozen games every weekend or whatever it is,

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you know, just like that's just bound to have wear

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and tear effects.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it seems like the takeaway.

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Speaker 2: Here is you should grow up in an Eastern European

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or in a European country and like race chariot, race

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horses or whatever it is Jokic does because he never

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gets there.

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Speaker 3: I think that's the takeaway.

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Speaker 2: You get You're gonna want to do some kind of

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equestrian event as your second pastime because that keeps you healthy.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what to make of this final point

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from it's not even a point. He's just relaying data

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from habits trail. But it has to do with the

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like people consuming the game this year and the injury

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problem looms large in the audience data. According to Sports

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Media Watch tracking ESPN games, the opening weeks of the

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season have seen a thirty four percent decline from the

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comparable point last year, with six hundred thousand fans tuning

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out on average, TNT games are down fourteen percent over

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the first two weeks. Now, he did mention this too

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within his piece. I don't know how much of that

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is impacted because we were in an election cycle and

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maybe people are consuming differently. I also still don't I

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need I probably do need to dig deeper. I'm not

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someone who necessarily cares about ratings. Maybe it is a

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good sort of indicator of the health of the league,

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and we could, you know, we can get into all

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sorts of directions on that and the coverage of it.

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But it's got to be so hard to measure decentralized consumption,

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right because everyone's using all these different like you're not,

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most people aren't necessarily. Yes, live sports on TV are

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like the one. It feels like main event remaining that

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people will gather around and watch. But that's not how

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everyone's consuming them. They're consuming them, like, how are you

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tracking that if it's someone using the League Pass app

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or if they're using one of these other apps that

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they're like the TNT app rather than to like I'm

317
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sure everything's incorporated in but it's such a decentralized medium

318
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now that I'm just curious how that impacts the overall

319
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consumption numbers. I'm not here to be a rating's truther

320
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and say the NBA is actually more popular than it seems.

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But we already mentioned at the top you specifically saying

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there are certain games you're just not going to chop

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her into because what are you taking away when two

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or three of a team's best players are out. And

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the example that haberstro used in the Yahoo Sports piece

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was the Clippers facing Paul George for the first time.

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It was just like that arena wasn't that filled right,

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Like Paul George was only what was that this second

329
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game in his return there was no embiid and there

330
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was no Kauwhi. It's like the drama was just completely

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stripped from it. And it's these things. It like the

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injuries at least does seem like it's having a material impact.

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And final thing I'll say as it gets to you,

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and this is I try to be very empathetic towards

335
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the fan because we can sit here and say like, well,

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we want the best product in the playoffs, but it's

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like when people are paying prices now to get into games,

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and we try to steer clear of this. We acknowledge

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that it's an issue, but I don't ever want to

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devalue the regular season. But when you're dealing with all

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these injuries or load management cycles, you are inherently valuing

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the regular season. And our fans just sort of wisening

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up to are they going to be less likely to

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purchase tickets in advance of games and that this is

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going to be more of a closer to the date

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call type deal. Or again the Clipper sixers as an example,

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you're just gonna see like more empty ish or more

348
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open seats in arenas for what should be primetime matchups

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because these players are either banged up or being load

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managed and they're just not available.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think.

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Speaker 2: I think my last thought would just be if you're

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a die hard fan of your team, you're probably still

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gonna watch those games, right, Like I would imagine that

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Clippers fans that really care about the Clippers watched the

356
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Paul George game and just like they would have watched

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it had he not played or whatever. Now, this is

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assuming that your RSN situation locally allows you to watch

359
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,840
your team, which has been an issue. But I do

360
00:16:43,919 --> 00:16:47,840
think like an UH casual has such a pejorative connotation.

361
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But like a fan that doesn't have like doesn't care

362
00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,519
who wins when Dallas plays Phoenix, but that's the national game,

363
00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,960
like is just less likely to sit down and watch

364
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that game on broadcast or cable or like on the

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big network.

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Speaker 3: Then they are to like check the.

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Speaker 2: Box score or have whatever highlights they need to see

368
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delivered to their phone from whichever app they choose to use.

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Speaker 3: Like I think to me that rings most true. And

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the injuries factor into that.

371
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,839
Speaker 2: You're watching your team whether they're hurt or not, but

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you're not tuning in to see Dallas Phoenix if Luca

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doesn't player, if d I mean Luca's healthy ish now

374
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he's fighting.

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Speaker 3: Through a groin injury.

376
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,160
Speaker 2: But like it seems like but yeah, you're always bleeding.

377
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,759
Sure that was gnarly against the Warriors, just like clean

378
00:17:27,799 --> 00:17:28,279
that thing up.

379
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Speaker 3: Does that make sense?

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Speaker 1: I think?

381
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Speaker 2: I think it's like the national fan that might previously

382
00:17:33,799 --> 00:17:37,400
have watched like both TNT games or whatever is or

383
00:17:37,599 --> 00:17:40,599
ESPN games, it's just gonna like, yeah, you know, I'll

384
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,079
watch my team on my local network or whatever, and

385
00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:45,160
then I'll just like catch up on this other stuff.

386
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,960
Speaker 1: Honestly, thinking, look, people should go join our discord or

387
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,359
thrower in it and sound off. I don't know that.

388
00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:55,319
I won't say that people. And let let's say, if

389
00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:57,279
you're a Pacer fan or a Celtics stand or a

390
00:17:57,279 --> 00:18:00,000
Mavericks fan in our discord, or a Clipper sand whatever,

391
00:18:00,279 --> 00:18:02,400
do you actually value what we have to say about

392
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,359
your team that you've probably seen more games of for

393
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,759
the most part because we're covering the entire league, or

394
00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:10,039
do you listen to us because you'd rather that's how

395
00:18:10,079 --> 00:18:11,880
you keep pace with the rest of the league. I

396
00:18:12,039 --> 00:18:13,960
honestly argue it is probably closer to the lie. I

397
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:16,640
hope people want to hear our opinions on everything. Otherwise,

398
00:18:16,839 --> 00:18:19,960
what are you doing here? I will say, though, and

399
00:18:19,559 --> 00:18:21,880
I don't want to get into the quality of the coverage,

400
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:23,839
but that is part of the reason, by the way,

401
00:18:23,839 --> 00:18:26,160
why we'll defend Reggie Miller to no end is that

402
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,079
because he is one of the announcers on these national outlets.

403
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,119
I mean, we're employed by them. But still he seems

404
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:37,079
genuinely excited about the game, and I appreciate that. But

405
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,440
when you were always the NBA is always going to

406
00:18:40,519 --> 00:18:43,240
be up against Like I don't like when people compare

407
00:18:43,279 --> 00:18:45,359
it to the NFL. For instance, Even when it comes

408
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:49,240
to the approach to coverage, the scarcity of product in

409
00:18:49,279 --> 00:18:51,799
the NFL doesn't just work to drumming up interest. I

410
00:18:51,839 --> 00:18:55,960
think it works towards making coverage more instructive, more educational,

411
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,759
because there's more time look at the pauses in between

412
00:18:58,759 --> 00:19:02,519
plays to educate. Now do I think the NBA and

413
00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:04,799
media partners have failed on a lot of level to

414
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,400
you know, this is what we're delivering people like and

415
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,880
now that's what they've been conditioned to consume. Sure, so

416
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,920
I'm not saying that the coverage is perfect, but this

417
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,039
comes back to injuries in the sense that you are

418
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,799
never gonna have high stakes in the rate like play

419
00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:21,559
and tournament play in tournament uh mid season. The NBA

420
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:23,480
Cup is an example. I like it. I favor it.

421
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,599
It seems like the courts are different. People don't like them.

422
00:19:25,599 --> 00:19:28,720
People are talking. It seems like they're watching point differential matters,

423
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,400
hashtag what do we say, just try shit. Favor it.

424
00:19:32,599 --> 00:19:34,880
But when you're you're always, you're never gonna have that

425
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,519
scarcity of product. Even in the playoffs, it's best of seven,

426
00:19:37,599 --> 00:19:39,960
it's not single which is why the NBA Cup is

427
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,839
interesting because you get to a knockout stage, but when

428
00:19:42,839 --> 00:19:46,920
you're not benefiting from a scarcity of product, I do

429
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,519
think it increases the importance of your main players being

430
00:19:50,519 --> 00:19:54,119
available more, especially if you're gonna have media members. And

431
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,559
even if we've said it, I'm sure we've said in

432
00:19:55,559 --> 00:19:58,079
the past, if we're going to degrade the value of

433
00:19:58,079 --> 00:19:59,880
the regular season by saying there's too many games where

434
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,319
that it's okay that Joel Embiid never plays in a

435
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,680
back to back again because we only care about the playoffs.

436
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,839
You need to figure out a way to drive interest

437
00:20:07,079 --> 00:20:09,559
and stakes in the regular season. And right now, just

438
00:20:09,559 --> 00:20:12,440
the way I look at it, like the only thing

439
00:20:12,519 --> 00:20:15,440
kind of separating that will not separating them. But you

440
00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:18,480
need good availability from not just the quote unquote all

441
00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:21,000
NBA guys, but Pala Bang Carols, an up and coming

442
00:20:21,079 --> 00:20:23,039
name who probably would have been party crashing the back

443
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,440
end of some MVP ballots right now if he never

444
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,759
has the oblique injury. And I'm not trying to, you know,

445
00:20:28,039 --> 00:20:31,680
imply a causation to any individual case, but when there's

446
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,400
so many games and there is just there is just

447
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,559
an an inherent low stakes to these things like that.

448
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,240
I'm not saying the regular season should suck, but it

449
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,359
inherently like there's seventeen games in the NFL versus eighty

450
00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,400
two in the in the NBA, and you have more

451
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,799
than half the teams getting into some type of postseason.

452
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,400
So like, yes, at the end of the year, there's

453
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,200
all these races and you can go back to like, oh,

454
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,440
the margins were so slim, but you're not doing a

455
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,680
good job of captivating that in the moment. And if

456
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,240
you're not doing a good job of that, like then

457
00:20:59,279 --> 00:21:02,000
you just need the really good players to play, because

458
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,880
that's a way of driving up interest.

459
00:21:04,519 --> 00:21:06,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I would just i'd say too that like.

460
00:21:08,279 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 2: If we're we're not concern trolling, but if you want

461
00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:14,160
to get worried about this, the injuries as they relate

462
00:21:14,279 --> 00:21:18,240
to declining viewership or whatever, it's that nobody knows how

463
00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:20,839
to fix this, or at least nobody has a solution

464
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,880
that's actually going to be implemented, because shortening cutting the

465
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:25,440
number of games is just like I don't know what

466
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:27,359
it will take for that, but it's not it's not

467
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,119
coming down the pike anytime soon. So like nobody has

468
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,359
a good answer for if this is a problem. I

469
00:21:33,519 --> 00:21:36,000
just I have yet to see someone say here's the solution,

470
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,279
because we like already I mean now it had to

471
00:21:38,279 --> 00:21:41,119
do with trying to get a better TV deal, but

472
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,559
like the NBA already kind of flip flopped on like, well,

473
00:21:43,559 --> 00:21:46,400
we're not sure if rest or load management actually helps

474
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,880
or not. Like I do think there is some sincere

475
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,119
uncertainty in that even if they're maybe incentivized to, say,

476
00:21:53,319 --> 00:21:55,920
you know, to kind of backtrack because they want Amazon

477
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,680
and whoever to spend money. But you know what I mean,

478
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,880
like there's no there's no clear solve that, Hey, guys,

479
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:01,519
don't get hurt.

480
00:22:01,559 --> 00:22:02,559
Speaker 3: Try not getting hurt.

481
00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: And the other thing, by the way, too, is like

482
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,160
there is just statistically speaking, like there's data to back

483
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:09,920
up like, okay, the second end of back to backs

484
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,559
when you play in both, like players and teams tend

485
00:22:12,599 --> 00:22:15,319
to not fare as well. And it's I get it.

486
00:22:15,319 --> 00:22:17,000
It's these guys are getting paid a bunch of money

487
00:22:17,079 --> 00:22:19,680
if to play in all these games, but there is

488
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,200
something to well, don't you also want to see the

489
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,440
best product. I'm not saying that they should. Then nobody

490
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,559
should sit back to backs. It'd be cool if we

491
00:22:25,599 --> 00:22:27,240
just didn't have back to backs. But I know the

492
00:22:27,319 --> 00:22:29,400
NBA is not going to lower the number of games.

493
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,960
They've taken strides to lower the number of back to backs.

494
00:22:33,319 --> 00:22:35,799
I just don't I don't like the disingenuous framing of

495
00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:39,240
power through the injuries or when you do sit out.

496
00:22:39,759 --> 00:22:42,640
Joel Embiid is an example, like do we believe that

497
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,279
he hates basketball and just doesn't want to play right?

498
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:45,599
Speaker 3: Right?

499
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,559
Speaker 1: So I just I don't like it when people boil

500
00:22:47,599 --> 00:22:49,720
it that because that I understand people want to make

501
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,880
this binary or simplify it, because we all want solutions

502
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,759
or be able to like that's the problem, and that's

503
00:22:55,759 --> 00:22:57,799
how you fix it. But it's not, you know, throw

504
00:22:57,839 --> 00:22:59,880
some wind decks on it, spray it with some windecks,

505
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,319
and let's move on like it's just not. It doesn't,

506
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,359
it doesn't work like that. I don't have an answer.

507
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,440
I just it sucks that the injuries are up because

508
00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,880
i'd rather not that. I enjoy being wrong, but I

509
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,480
would have rather have just gone through a bunch of

510
00:23:10,519 --> 00:23:13,400
slides on why Dan, in fact, you're complaining about something

511
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:14,400
that's not actually an issue.

512
00:23:15,799 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 3: Are you spraying your injuries with wind decks.

513
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 1: Is that what you've ever seen? My big fact Greek wedding,

514
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,759
that's they spray windecks on everything. That was like top

515
00:23:22,799 --> 00:23:25,559
of mind for that. It's what was the actual cliche

516
00:23:25,599 --> 00:23:28,599
is like rub some dirt on it? Yeah, that that

517
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,000
tormentous because just rub some dirt on it and let's

518
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,279
continue moving. Like even here's Kawhi as an example. Do

519
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,319
we think that he actively hates basketball? A man has

520
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:38,279
degenerative knees.

521
00:23:38,519 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 3: That's what I just want to know.

522
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 2: If he's tried wind decks, I mean maybe or dirt? Yeah,

523
00:23:43,319 --> 00:23:45,359
dirt both get him in it.

524
00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, Wow, you're welcome.

525
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 2: Guys.

526
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,359
Speaker 1: It only took us under twenty five minutes to solve

527
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,799
the NBA's injury problems. We move on to some specific

528
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:56,160
injuries though, Grant and you did you know what I'm

529
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,759
gonna you want to lead us in because you you

530
00:23:58,759 --> 00:24:01,799
you pronounced it so eloquently before. But hed home Rate

531
00:24:01,839 --> 00:24:02,279
is injured?

532
00:24:02,799 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 3: What's he got? So I think I'm saying this right.

533
00:24:06,279 --> 00:24:09,759
Speaker 2: I have to admit that iliac I L I A

534
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,440
C is not a word I'm pretty sure I've ever written,

535
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,480
typed or said because and you've also seen it referred

536
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,240
to as a hip fracture of pelvic fracture. It's all bad,

537
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,720
all sounds bad. The fall was the fall was rough.

538
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:28,240
Oh I got him, spit take Dan, let's go. I'll

539
00:24:28,319 --> 00:24:31,119
let you recover eight to ten weeks and then it's

540
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:32,559
one of those like eight to ten weeks and we

541
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,839
re evaluate, right, So that's like okay.

542
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: Well, and it's the Thunder, So it's more like so six.

543
00:24:38,279 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: Hundred weeks give or take and and so I mean,

544
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,160
so the Thunder gonna play small, and they did play small,

545
00:24:45,319 --> 00:24:47,079
and they did beat the Clippers, who have a very

546
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,920
large human being that plays on their team.

547
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,880
Speaker 3: It beats the zobots and are so good.

548
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,319
Speaker 1: But any of that game just very quickly, because there

549
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,160
were moments where he was able to punish, like other

550
00:24:58,279 --> 00:24:59,960
moments where it's like what is God.

551
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,319
Speaker 3: The first play of the game was a dumpin and

552
00:25:02,319 --> 00:25:02,880
that didn't work.

553
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,759
Speaker 2: But then in the second half it really got it

554
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,960
like it it looked, it looked more how it should

555
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,480
in the second half when the Clippers just like, we

556
00:25:10,559 --> 00:25:13,079
can't go away from this. He's got six inches on

557
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,240
every guy that's going to guard him, and what fifty

558
00:25:16,279 --> 00:25:19,559
pounds probably if it's if it's Jalen Williams. So here's

559
00:25:19,559 --> 00:25:23,000
the good news is the Thunders so far this season.

560
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,440
Now that we're recording this Wednesday, this may change, but

561
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,599
you get the gist of it. They're plus ten point

562
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,119
four net rating without Chet on the floor. Now that

563
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,279
looks worse when you realize they're plus fifteen point four

564
00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:36,720
with him. But you can survive and you know, frankly

565
00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:38,359
lead the league if you can hold a plus ten

566
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,519
point four. I mean, just parsing some of the numbers

567
00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:44,559
to get a sense of like what this may look

568
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,319
like other than the obvious. Okay, he's gonna be small

569
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:51,240
for a while. Most of most of holmgruns impact on

570
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:52,920
this team has been on the defensive end. If you're

571
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,119
just looking at the numbers, he he seems pretty clearly

572
00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:01,039
linked to suppressing opponent free throw rate, opponent effective few percentage,

573
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,160
and just knocks offensive ratings down all those. He's like

574
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,039
a top ten percent guy in terms of on off

575
00:26:06,039 --> 00:26:10,240
impact early season noisy stuff, but still like it squares

576
00:26:10,279 --> 00:26:12,720
with what you see from him, which is just monstrous

577
00:26:12,759 --> 00:26:17,359
defensive impact. It's it's interesting, like this is a team

578
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,319
that is on pace to be one of if not

579
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,079
the best defense statistically in league history and the number

580
00:26:23,079 --> 00:26:27,160
two right well, and then that's that's because their worst

581
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,079
two defensive games of the year where their last two,

582
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,519
the one in which Holmgren got hurt and didn't play

583
00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:33,160
the rest of it and the one against the Clippers.

584
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,960
So like they and really, and here's here's where if

585
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,920
we're talking about problems without solutions at least until Hertenstein

586
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,000
comes back. They give up a forty point five percent

587
00:26:43,079 --> 00:26:45,839
offensive rebound rate to the Clippers. So the Clippers are

588
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,400
getting back four out of ten of their own misses,

589
00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:52,480
which is the worst figure the Thunder of posted all year.

590
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,559
They're a bad rebounding team with chet Holmgren, I do think, like,

591
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,480
if you want to catastrophize before they get guys back,

592
00:26:59,519 --> 00:27:01,200
when they're just going to be small, and we could

593
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,200
talk about how long that'll be and what other fixes

594
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:07,440
there might be. Like I feel more confident in saying

595
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,839
the Thunder are going to get absolutely smoked on the

596
00:27:09,839 --> 00:27:13,200
boards and probably lose games because of giving up second

597
00:27:13,279 --> 00:27:16,480
chance points or not ending possessions with rebounds that I

598
00:27:16,519 --> 00:27:19,599
feel certain of. Everything else is like, well, maybe they're

599
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,240
just gonna be disruptive enough and fast enough and trap

600
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,400
enough to survive. But but that's that one is like,

601
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,079
there's not a solve for that, because the nasty you

602
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,599
get with your trapping defense and scrambling around and trying

603
00:27:31,599 --> 00:27:34,039
to create turnovers, just the more out of position you

604
00:27:34,079 --> 00:27:36,319
are to rebound. And if you're already smaller, like you're

605
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,359
just you know, screwed twice over there.

606
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting that they're still in like this, what

607
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,000
is it, the seventy eight percentile of defensive efficiency without Chet,

608
00:27:45,319 --> 00:27:49,039
even though without Chet they ranking the fifteenth percentile of

609
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,880
defensive rebounding rate. And maybe just they have experience because

610
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,359
as you mentioned, they're still pretty bad at rebounding with

611
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,839
him on the court, and so they're just their ability

612
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,519
to create chaos in the half court is probably their

613
00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:04,039
biggest strength. I'm not when you look at the concern

614
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,079
level of what they do. They just have so much

615
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,519
versatility and guys who are either comfortable guarding up or

616
00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:12,519
just so physical or just so phernetic that they're going

617
00:28:12,559 --> 00:28:15,279
to figure out. If this were the playoffs, yes, we'd

618
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:17,720
be at def Con one. My concern level is just

619
00:28:17,839 --> 00:28:20,079
all right, well, like they have Kenrick Williams back, They're

620
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,119
eventually like, I don't know what the timeline is for

621
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,759
Isaiah Hertenstein. Well, we know what the timeline is, but

622
00:28:24,759 --> 00:28:27,279
we just haven't like we're not there yet. And then

623
00:28:27,319 --> 00:28:30,119
they also do at some point maybe Jay will will

624
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:35,240
be coming back, so they clearly have the time, they'll

625
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,039
be able to buy time. I don't think like, yeah, okay,

626
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:38,880
maybe they'll lose some games because they don't have chet,

627
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,799
but this isn't I'm not super concerned. I do wonder

628
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:46,200
but given the uncertainty around Holmgren's timeline coming back, because

629
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,839
eight to ten weeks is okay, so they're gonna reevaluate

630
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:52,000
him basically at the start of twenty twenty five, and

631
00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:54,039
then it's does he need to ramp up from there?

632
00:28:54,119 --> 00:28:57,319
Could it take more time? Is this a team that

633
00:28:57,519 --> 00:29:00,680
needs to just get another like action big? I know

634
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,720
that if you're fully healthy, you can play smaller with

635
00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:05,440
Kenridge Williams, but do you think that they need to

636
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,920
go out there and get an actual big another.

637
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: I literally my next bullet point is I was going

638
00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:13,839
to ask you the same question, like do they need

639
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,599
to make a trade. What the hell are all these

640
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,440
assets for? If you're not going to just go use

641
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,160
them on a guy that clearly would fill a need.

642
00:29:22,039 --> 00:29:25,640
My instinct, though, is no, I don't think you need to.

643
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,400
I think what you're in search of is a stopgap,

644
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,400
and there are plenty of centers that can come in

645
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,279
and give you fifteen minutes and maybe defend the rim

646
00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:35,160
and rebound a little bit, which is really kind of

647
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,200
what you're asking for. And here's the thing too, So

648
00:29:37,359 --> 00:29:39,279
I got those timeline. I looked up the timeline. So

649
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,000
Jay Will had he aggravated a hamstring strain towards the

650
00:29:43,079 --> 00:29:46,359
end of October, and the word was reevaluated four to

651
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,720
six weeks, so that that's you.

652
00:29:48,599 --> 00:29:50,359
Speaker 3: Know, mid December maybe.

653
00:29:50,839 --> 00:29:53,799
Speaker 2: And then Hartenstein had the hand fracture five to six

654
00:29:53,839 --> 00:29:57,519
week timeline as of October seventeenth, so we're like, we're

655
00:29:57,559 --> 00:30:00,319
at the four ish week mark for him. He really

656
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,119
might only be talking about a couple of weeks where

657
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:05,480
the thunder really are just threadbare at the five and

658
00:30:05,519 --> 00:30:07,200
you can just go pick up a scrap heap guy.

659
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 3: If you you.

660
00:30:08,039 --> 00:30:10,039
Speaker 2: Know, what's over two weeks, what are they gonna play

661
00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:11,279
six games? Seven games?

662
00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: Maybe?

663
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 2: So I don't feel like there's a huge urgent need

664
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,240
for a trade, especially since like, look, you're paying Hartenstein

665
00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:21,720
like a high end starter basically, so like when he's back, like, yeah,

666
00:30:21,759 --> 00:30:24,039
play that dude thirty four minutes, Like that's just that

667
00:30:24,119 --> 00:30:26,160
should be okay, he should be in shape. It's a

668
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,720
hand injury, so he's been able to condition. I don't

669
00:30:28,759 --> 00:30:31,400
think the ramp up is like an issue for him.

670
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,519
The Homegrin part of it though, So the reason you

671
00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:36,960
might make a trade, I don't think they need to.

672
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,920
If you did think they they should, it's about the long,

673
00:30:41,079 --> 00:30:43,640
longer term at least for this season. Concerns with Holmegrin

674
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,400
because he's a seven footer that has a fractured hip, Like, Okay,

675
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:51,039
what's that look like once he's quote unquote healthy, Like

676
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,079
is he the same guy?

677
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:53,079
Speaker 3: Is he is mobile?

678
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: And if you're trying to win a championship this year,

679
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,200
which one hundred percent the thunder are and should be

680
00:30:58,759 --> 00:31:02,240
well like everybody. So if Homegron's not going to be

681
00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:05,240
his best self, which like I don't know, Look, we

682
00:31:05,359 --> 00:31:07,319
just learned the word for this injury. Who knows what

683
00:31:07,359 --> 00:31:10,599
the outlook's gonna be once he's back, Like that might

684
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,799
push you towards it because you just need someone other

685
00:31:12,839 --> 00:31:16,240
than Hartenstein and or j will like so I'm still

686
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,880
a no. But if you're really worried about Chet's like

687
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,720
mid and longer term prognosis for just this season and

688
00:31:21,799 --> 00:31:24,200
the playoffs, that might nudge you that way. Are you

689
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,480
are you thinking trade or are you just like, let's

690
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,200
hold down the fort for a couple of weeks.

691
00:31:28,359 --> 00:31:31,039
Speaker 1: I would say hold down them. We need to disagree

692
00:31:31,079 --> 00:31:33,640
more like, but it's you need to figure out like, Okay,

693
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,720
are you worried about him being out longer or are

694
00:31:35,759 --> 00:31:39,079
you more worried about just longer term leading into the playoffs?

695
00:31:39,079 --> 00:31:42,000
Does this say anything about the way his body's made

696
00:31:42,039 --> 00:31:44,400
up where he is just so big and long and

697
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,079
mobile that he's never going to fill out to a

698
00:31:46,119 --> 00:31:49,559
degree where a fall isn't going to be, in theory

699
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,359
more catastrophic than it's for someone that has more meat

700
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:54,000
or girth, or like someone like I say a heart

701
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,000
and Stein, I mean, who's huge. But just like when

702
00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:57,759
you look at the way that Chet's built, like are

703
00:31:57,799 --> 00:32:00,519
the Heartstein is not as mobile and.

704
00:32:00,599 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 2: Just easier to knock home grin out of the air

705
00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:05,079
right like that? That's another factor too, So if.

706
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: You're worried about that, and it's okay, well, we really

707
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,039
need to like this needs to be more than breaking

708
00:32:09,079 --> 00:32:12,559
case of emergency type of third center, like someone who's

709
00:32:12,599 --> 00:32:15,759
the upgrade over j Will and Kenrich Williams and Aaron

710
00:32:15,799 --> 00:32:18,200
Wiggins or Jail and Williams whoever is like you consider

711
00:32:18,279 --> 00:32:21,200
your small ball center. But they do run into some

712
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,359
interesting issues because I was looking at this, everyone's like,

713
00:32:23,799 --> 00:32:25,920
go out there and trade for so and so, and

714
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,119
it's yeah, they could trade whoever they want. But when

715
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,880
you get into or they can trade for whoever they want,

716
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,839
excuse me, but then you get into matching salaries, and it's, well,

717
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,200
who to this team do you think doesn't matter enough

718
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,079
that you would give up for let's say, at best

719
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,880
your third big and as of right now, like it's

720
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,720
Usman Jang. And then I guess if you're getting a

721
00:32:47,759 --> 00:32:51,839
different big, do you throw Kenrich Williams into there? Probably not,

722
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,039
because the looking give you small ball. So then do

723
00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:56,680
you consider j Will who makes peanuts? It's you know,

724
00:32:56,799 --> 00:32:58,920
if you're giving up Usman Jang because of how flexible

725
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:00,519
you are, you can take back at ten million dollar

726
00:33:00,559 --> 00:33:03,319
player right now. But like now, if you're looking to

727
00:33:03,359 --> 00:33:06,079
stack salaries. And this is assuming they're out on who's Mandjang,

728
00:33:06,079 --> 00:33:09,599
who's playing some center for them as well? It's like,

729
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,039
what are you doing so even some let's use Larry

730
00:33:12,119 --> 00:33:15,279
Nance as an example. Right now, you're not giving up?

731
00:33:15,519 --> 00:33:17,920
Would you give up? I'm just Ustman Jang and Jay

732
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:19,119
Will for Larry Nance?

733
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think that moves the needle enough.

734
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,599
Speaker 1: Right, Like that's the issue you run in Now, could

735
00:33:23,599 --> 00:33:25,359
you go out there and maybe just get a duop

736
00:33:25,359 --> 00:33:27,119
Wreath who's not really playing in Portland?

737
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:28,519
Speaker 3: Just still get Walker Kessler.

738
00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 2: You don't have to worry about salary matching there. You

739
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,799
can overwhelm the Jazz with picks which they should want

740
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:34,200
like that that you can do?

741
00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: Which is it? But now here's but that's the issue

742
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,720
with that. Now would be okay, he's about to be

743
00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:42,880
extension eligible, and it's like how much are you It's

744
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:44,480
okay they can give up a first round pick and

745
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,160
if it's for their third big or whatever, but like,

746
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:47,400
what are you ultimately?

747
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:47,519
Speaker 2: Like?

748
00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:50,079
Speaker 1: So Walker Kessler's never really going to play when you're

749
00:33:50,079 --> 00:33:52,279
at full strength, isn't that You're never gonna then get

750
00:33:52,279 --> 00:33:53,680
a ton of value for him and then what do

751
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,200
you pay him? And then you're probably repressing his own

752
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,160
market value, so is he going to be happy there?

753
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,960
Those are kind of the challenge. It's it's a great

754
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,799
problem to have, yeah, but at the same time, the

755
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,279
uncertainty of the chet Homegrin of it all moving forward,

756
00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:08,760
I do think it adds an interesting layer to it.

757
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,119
And so they'll have a little bit if they want to.

758
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:12,599
You know, when you're looking for like, let's try to

759
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,280
take it back to Let's say we don't want to

760
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,239
give up Jay Will, but like we're willing to move Jang.

761
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,519
It's once Lian's like once his salary I think it's

762
00:34:20,559 --> 00:34:22,280
in January or something opens up, like you'll be able

763
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,800
to take back basically a twelve or thirteen million dollars

764
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,039
player with him and Usman Jang and then picks and

765
00:34:27,079 --> 00:34:28,519
so it's all right if you just want Larry Nance

766
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:31,119
at that point, are you out on Uzman Jang enough

767
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:32,840
where if that's what Atlanta's will, But then at that

768
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,320
at that stage, we're in January, and so shouldn't we

769
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,239
know you'll know more about chet Home Grin, So then

770
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,159
maybe that's why you make the decision. What does he

771
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:42,320
look like upon return has he even come back yet?

772
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:44,679
This team is built to hold down the fort. But

773
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,960
I think in terms of you meant the word I

774
00:34:47,039 --> 00:34:49,360
keep circling back to is what how do you feel?

775
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,639
Long terms? It just we're gonna get hartensteinback, So even

776
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,119
if there is a disaster scenario with CHET, we're going

777
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:57,039
to be fine anyway. I don't know that does change

778
00:34:57,039 --> 00:34:59,800
your four out spacing you're excuse me, your five out

779
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,719
space model a little bit. If Hartners signs also on

780
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,519
the main guy, it's it's a I'm gonna wrap up

781
00:35:05,559 --> 00:35:07,599
before I throw back to you with this is. It's

782
00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:10,159
just a little weird because I'm not concerned in the

783
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,559
intern but this is it is unsettling, I would say,

784
00:35:13,599 --> 00:35:15,039
just when you're trying to scale ahead.

785
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think and really like the the macro part

786
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,159
of this that I can't I'm like kind of sticking

787
00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:24,440
in my brain even though I'm saying I don't think

788
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:30,360
a trade is necessarily the obvious decision, like how much

789
00:35:30,559 --> 00:35:33,360
better are the thunder ever gonna be?

790
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: Right?

791
00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 2: Like I know, I know it seems insane because like, oh,

792
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,519
they're all so young and whatever, but they won fifty

793
00:35:38,559 --> 00:35:41,119
seven last year. Everybody's got them pegged for sixty plus

794
00:35:41,199 --> 00:35:44,239
this year. Maybe you you you drop that estimate with chet.

795
00:35:44,079 --> 00:35:45,559
Speaker 1: Out, I like sixty.

796
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 3: If so, what are the picks for? Why do we

797
00:35:52,039 --> 00:35:52,960
have all this stuff?

798
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 2: Like?

799
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:54,679
Speaker 3: What if not?

800
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,159
Speaker 2: Now if you're not gonna make like a call an

801
00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:02,519
overpay a short sighted move, like what are you, like

802
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,920
what what's the scenario you're waiting to like unload the

803
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,239
clip for if not? If not a significant injury to

804
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,800
a key player in a season where you're the favorite

805
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:13,480
to win the West?

806
00:36:13,559 --> 00:36:15,199
Speaker 3: Like what so you know what I mean? Like, you

807
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:16,840
got all this stuff, what are you holding on to

808
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:17,199
it for?

809
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: I honestly think it's more so it's not to me,

810
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:21,800
it's not an issue of the picks.

811
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 3: It's the finances.

812
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: It's the players. Because okay, so they could take in

813
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,199
someone and they could they have someone they could wave,

814
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,039
but like you could take in someone via the room

815
00:36:30,039 --> 00:36:32,320
exception that you still have. But now we're talking, okay,

816
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,000
like what is that seven eight million dollars? So you're

817
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,760
you're limiting. But if you actually want them to like

818
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,800
to actually empty the clip or they wouldn't empty it,

819
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,159
but to overwhelm someone with picks, I think he gets

820
00:36:42,159 --> 00:36:44,760
into a challenge with like, well who are we sending out?

821
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,920
Because yes, you could say, well, these players might not

822
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,519
fit long term, but are they worth? Like you're not

823
00:36:49,639 --> 00:36:52,119
giving up case In Wallace to trade for another big

824
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,000
right now. If you did that, I assume it would

825
00:36:54,039 --> 00:36:57,920
be for someone who's gonna improve your like offensive shot creation,

826
00:36:58,039 --> 00:37:00,360
rather than be like breaking case or emergency if if

827
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,360
check is injured. So I don't think they need to

828
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,199
make a trade, but I do feel in my head,

829
00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:08,159
I'm just like, was this something that's gonna become a

830
00:37:08,199 --> 00:37:11,920
long term issue? Because if you're going from like, we'll

831
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,559
have to wait and see. But like, Okay, now he

832
00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:16,119
missed his entire rookie year with that list Frank fracture,

833
00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:18,480
and now he has this this issue, and it's just okay,

834
00:37:18,519 --> 00:37:21,400
that's a lot of mid lower body stuff now is

835
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,199
added up, and could this become reoccurring? Not because chet Holman,

836
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:27,639
Like I hate boiling it down to this, but just

837
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,519
he's not built conventionally, Like he's just the spindly freak

838
00:37:32,559 --> 00:37:33,119
of nature.

839
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 2: And even you know, I don't I wouldn't accuse you

840
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,239
of it, Like this isn't making the argument that he's

841
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,119
fragile or is in quote unquote injury prone. It's just

842
00:37:41,119 --> 00:37:43,679
an acknowledgement that he's had now two significant injuries, and

843
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,920
it's like that's gonna have effects down the line one

844
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,920
way or the other. We'll talk about another player that

845
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:50,840
had an injury when we get to the Pacers that

846
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,079
might be having some kinetic chain like kind of stuff

847
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:56,719
happening too. So like, once you're hurt, it's just that's

848
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,920
a problem going forward, like pretty much full stop. It's like, oh,

849
00:38:01,079 --> 00:38:04,000
because you've been hurt before, you're the type of person

850
00:38:04,039 --> 00:38:07,119
that gets hurt. It's like, that's just you know, they compound.

851
00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: Do you think in retrospect that this might have been

852
00:38:10,039 --> 00:38:13,880
caked into the Isaiah Hartenstein calculus where we just assumed

853
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,639
it it was a matter of opportunity and they clearly

854
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:18,840
needed more girth and you could play them together. But

855
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,039
I wonder how much of it was Well, we just

856
00:38:21,079 --> 00:38:23,119
had a full season of healthy Chet Homegren and that

857
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,360
was great. But like, if this happens, Yeah, he's still

858
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:27,840
in his rookie deals, but he's still making it a

859
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:29,599
good amount of money. But it's easier to pay thirty

860
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:31,599
plus million for the next two years at least to

861
00:38:31,679 --> 00:38:34,239
Hartenstein with that third year team option. I do wonder

862
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,800
how much something like this was part of that calculus,

863
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,840
and it just the timing of Hertenstein also being injured.

864
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,000
It's just like, that's why that logic falls by the

865
00:38:44,039 --> 00:38:44,800
wayside a little bit.

866
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: Well, it's like we just got a full season of

867
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,800
healthy chet Holgren and he's now played fifty percent of

868
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,840
his career games, because like, you also had a full

869
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,360
season of zero chet Holgren because of injury. So yeah,

870
00:38:54,519 --> 00:38:56,719
I hadn't thought about that, but yeah, if you're the thunder,

871
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,920
it wouldn't it make sense given you've already had a

872
00:39:00,039 --> 00:39:03,400
guy lose the season to like, let's backstop a little bit,

873
00:39:03,519 --> 00:39:05,559
let's make sure and we got the resources, so why not?

874
00:39:05,679 --> 00:39:07,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that that checks out to me.

875
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,119
Speaker 1: More of the story is, Oh, you said you want

876
00:39:10,159 --> 00:39:11,079
to do a concern meter.

877
00:39:11,519 --> 00:39:14,599
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like one to ten. Ten is most concerned

878
00:39:15,599 --> 00:39:16,239
short term.

879
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 1: I'm a one long term. I'm probably moving in the

880
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,280
four to five range. It's okay, this is something I'm

881
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,119
gonna be monitoring and then I'll I will further couch

882
00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:27,800
it with this. Like we get to January and it

883
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,559
doesn't look like he's coming back in like, Okay, let's

884
00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:31,840
say the eight to ten weeks are up, and then

885
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,079
it's okay, he's gonna be reevaluated again in a few weeks.

886
00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:36,280
He's gonna ramp up and go from there. That might

887
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,320
be when you start to revisit, all right, does it

888
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,239
make sense to go get a Larry nance Er to

889
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,119
roll the dice un an RW three. It'll cost you

890
00:39:43,159 --> 00:39:45,000
picks and maybe it'll probably cast you at least one

891
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,280
player you don't necessarily want to give up. That would

892
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:50,360
be when I would reevaluate, Like in the intern, if

893
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,280
you want to go sign Bismock Biumbo, or you want

894
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,920
to trade for dwop Reef, you go be my guest.

895
00:39:55,119 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 2: So so I'm viewing it a little differently. I think

896
00:39:57,599 --> 00:39:59,119
I think the way you framed it makes sense for

897
00:39:59,159 --> 00:40:01,920
your ratings. I'm going to six And it's just part

898
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:04,559
of the biggest reason is the Thunder are at a

899
00:40:04,679 --> 00:40:09,920
level competitively where like slight degradations and like their available

900
00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:13,960
talent really fucking matters, because like, okay, this is you

901
00:40:14,039 --> 00:40:16,599
need everything to beat Boston or to beat Dallas or

902
00:40:16,639 --> 00:40:19,119
whoever you play in the playoffs. That's you know, Boston

903
00:40:19,159 --> 00:40:22,360
in the finals, Cleveland, whoever ends up being like you can't.

904
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:25,320
It's just you can't be missing or have like a

905
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,559
diminished version of a player as important as home grin.

906
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,840
So because the stakes are so high for them, the

907
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,960
concern level for me is a little higher. I just

908
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:37,320
I can't go higher than six just because they've got

909
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,360
all these outs they have. It's, you know, he's their

910
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,920
third best player, maybe like he's two A or two

911
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,519
B or whatever, and it's it's an eight to ten

912
00:40:44,559 --> 00:40:47,719
week season's not over. But like I do think it's

913
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,760
an issue just because of how high they are in

914
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,679
the league, like power structure and what what like any

915
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,480
kind of consequential injury actually means for them.

916
00:40:57,119 --> 00:41:00,519
Speaker 1: This next team that is up grant no stranger injuries.

917
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,480
The Memphis Grizzlies John Moran suffered what did they call it?

918
00:41:06,559 --> 00:41:08,239
You have the exact terminology now, I'm just going to

919
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:09,119
call it a hip injury.

920
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:10,519
Speaker 3: I don't have it for job.

921
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 2: But there was some funky wording it is where it's

922
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:13,320
a hip injury.

923
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 3: So it was a weird fall. Did you see the fall?

924
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:16,519
It was very awkward.

925
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,119
Speaker 1: It was awkward. I think the word pelvic is being

926
00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:19,960
thrown around, which.

927
00:41:20,039 --> 00:41:22,800
Speaker 3: Was just pelvic injuries this year? So who else had

928
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:23,480
a pelvic injury?

929
00:41:23,559 --> 00:41:25,639
Speaker 1: When a study on that, We've got a lot of

930
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:26,639
hip and thigh injuries.

931
00:41:26,679 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 3: It feels like, yeah, it wasn't.

932
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 2: Quick Quickly's injury was a pelvic injury, right, That's what

933
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:32,679
it was.

934
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,079
Speaker 1: It was it was Quickly So John Moran, we can't.

935
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,079
They didn't provide a timeline for like a strict timeline

936
00:41:39,079 --> 00:41:41,320
for his return. He is He's considered weak to week

937
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,559
was the terminology they used. Correct. That sucks, But this

938
00:41:45,639 --> 00:41:47,920
is all happening with Desmond Bain has now missed a

939
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,480
few games, Marcus Smart has one been bad and he's

940
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,559
still dealing with that Ankle's praying Gigi Jackson as you

941
00:41:54,599 --> 00:41:57,480
have to play this season. Vince Williams Junior has yet

942
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,960
to play this season. They're running ninety seven man rotations

943
00:42:01,079 --> 00:42:03,639
under Taylor Jenkins, like the and the list of injuries

944
00:42:03,639 --> 00:42:07,559
will just continue to stack up. What do you make

945
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,559
of the Memphis Grizzlies right now? Who by the way,

946
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,480
like they don't have the splashiest record, but you get

947
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,239
into some of the advanced numbers, like they rank pretty.

948
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 3: High, real high. So they're seven and four.

949
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,199
Speaker 2: As we're recording, it's like, so injuries are the story again,

950
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,320
but that like I don't know to stress the metaphor,

951
00:42:25,519 --> 00:42:29,199
like the ending is different because they're seven and four.

952
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 3: Last year that was just.

953
00:42:30,159 --> 00:42:32,199
Speaker 2: Like, oh my god, the wheels came off and everything

954
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,519
just was you know, they lost every you know, eight

955
00:42:34,519 --> 00:42:36,320
out of ten games they played for a long stretch.

956
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:38,920
They're plus ten point five net and they are in

957
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,000
the top five in both offensive and defensive ratings. So like,

958
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,760
somehow this has like held up despite just to put

959
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,639
a point on it, they've played thirty nine thirty nine

960
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,000
possessions with John Morant, Desmond Bane and Jaron Jackson Junior

961
00:42:54,039 --> 00:42:56,599
on the floor together this year, so like, I don't know,

962
00:42:56,639 --> 00:42:58,960
a little more than a quarter, you know, a quarter's

963
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,280
worth of possessions, take why And so some of those

964
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,440
numbers are juiced because they've got a couple of recent blowouts.

965
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,320
They destroyed the Trailblazers the other night, but still.

966
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,920
Speaker 3: Like without jaw and right, so yeah, you still get

967
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:12,519
credit for that.

968
00:43:12,599 --> 00:43:16,679
Speaker 2: And so what's happened is, you know, somebody in the

969
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,480
scouting department just needs a raise and a promotion because

970
00:43:19,559 --> 00:43:21,559
the Grizzlies are just finding guys and now they kind

971
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:25,559
of did it last year with Williams and and Gigi Jackson,

972
00:43:26,199 --> 00:43:28,880
but this is different. So the three that I'm focusing

973
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,559
on here that are kind of keeping things functional in

974
00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:34,559
no particular order, Jay Huff, Scottie Pippen Jr. Both you know,

975
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,960
cast offs from the Lakers kind of funnily enough, and

976
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,119
rookie Jalen Wells. These three guys have all played major roles.

977
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,480
A couple of them have started for you know, long

978
00:43:44,519 --> 00:43:49,639
stretches here and really like have been positive NBA players

979
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,840
after being like beyond afterthoughts and then like what was

980
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,000
Well's the thirty ninth pick, so you're just like, Okay,

981
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,280
this guy might make he's gonna be on the roster.

982
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 3: There's no way he's going to play now.

983
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 2: I want to start with Wells because I do think

984
00:44:03,079 --> 00:44:05,599
like Huff got the buzz early because it's like, oh,

985
00:44:05,599 --> 00:44:08,159
where did this guy come from? This incredible dunky block shots,

986
00:44:08,199 --> 00:44:11,559
he shoots threes. Wells to me looks like a guy

987
00:44:11,599 --> 00:44:14,800
that's just he's an NBA rotation player with starter upside

988
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,079
just going forward. He's got six ' eight depending where

989
00:44:18,079 --> 00:44:20,400
he looks six seven or six ' eight frame, averaging

990
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,280
eleven points thirty nine percent from three. Like, just watching

991
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,679
the tape of him, which I did before we started talking,

992
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:28,880
I think the thing that jumps out most to me

993
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,199
is like it's the number of like second effort defensive

994
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,079
plays that he makes where it's like, oh, he's beat,

995
00:44:35,159 --> 00:44:36,719
and then he comes back and blocks a shot, or

996
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:38,800
he runs a little harder in transition to like getting

997
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,039
somebody's way. That kind of stuff I think is just

998
00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:44,840
gonna be there. Like I maybe the shooting cools off.

999
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,840
I don't know, maybe not, but like he just looks

1000
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,320
to me like someone that you could start him for

1001
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,360
a lot of teams, and the Grizzlies are starting him,

1002
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,159
but like that's just he's an NBA player. He's an

1003
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,519
NBA wing with like almost all the tools you'd want.

1004
00:44:58,639 --> 00:45:01,800
And then Scotty Pippens you, you're really good defensive player,

1005
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,400
averaging twelve and six, making forty four percent of his threes,

1006
00:45:05,519 --> 00:45:08,679
Jay Huff making forty eight percent of his threes, blocking

1007
00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:09,599
two shots a game.

1008
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,360
Speaker 3: Like, these guys have all played major roles.

1009
00:45:12,559 --> 00:45:16,199
Speaker 2: It is worth noting, though, that like this is a

1010
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:20,599
small sample size slash early season caveat, you know, a disclaimer.

1011
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,800
We need like a button to push for that to.

1012
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 3: Have it pop up.

1013
00:45:23,519 --> 00:45:26,960
Speaker 2: But like the Grizzlies get smoked on defense when whenever

1014
00:45:27,039 --> 00:45:29,679
Pippen or Huff are in the game, that's got more

1015
00:45:29,679 --> 00:45:31,880
to do with opponents making threes. So like we just

1016
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,360
can't look at the on off stuff yet, uh and

1017
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,360
trust it. But man, like those three guys, once Memphis

1018
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,960
is healthy, you assume they'll still have roles, and then

1019
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,159
this team is deep like all of a sudden, right

1020
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:45,760
like or maybe if Marcus Smart just can't play anymore

1021
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,719
or whatever, Jackson and Vince Williams aren't, you know, turned

1022
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:51,199
back into pumpkins, Like you just have a normal roster.

1023
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:53,920
But if some of the stuff from last year carries over,

1024
00:45:54,079 --> 00:45:56,320
the big names get healthy and you still get production

1025
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,639
from these three, it's like, oh, okay, so Memphis is

1026
00:45:58,679 --> 00:46:00,559
now just one of the deepest teams in the league.

1027
00:46:00,679 --> 00:46:04,079
So I mean, we could talk about the concern level

1028
00:46:04,119 --> 00:46:06,039
or if there's anything you want to focus on from

1029
00:46:06,159 --> 00:46:11,400
my extended spiel, Like I do think both the fact

1030
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:14,039
that they've played this well to this point and the

1031
00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:16,679
fact that this rotation could look really good, really deep

1032
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,159
really interesting. Once everyone's back, you got to feel pretty

1033
00:46:20,159 --> 00:46:22,119
good about Memphis. This is certainly relative to what it

1034
00:46:22,119 --> 00:46:23,800
looked like last year when everybody got hurt.

1035
00:46:24,039 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd love to have a little bit more clarity

1036
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,440
on the jaw stuff. But their depth is insane right now.

1037
00:46:29,599 --> 00:46:32,519
And Scottie Pippen Jr. At one point he was mainly

1038
00:46:32,599 --> 00:46:35,280
leading the league and assists thrown off drives like and

1039
00:46:35,639 --> 00:46:37,960
I'd like to just have that sort of it, have

1040
00:46:38,079 --> 00:46:40,320
that as a contingency when not only is Marcus mart

1041
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,960
injured but he's bad. Yeah, And I think when you're

1042
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,400
watching this team to what I would be curious about

1043
00:46:46,559 --> 00:46:49,599
also what helps? By the way, Zachiaty has been playing better. Well,

1044
00:46:49,639 --> 00:46:51,039
off to a rough start, he's just looked a lot

1045
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:53,320
better since then. Luke and Arr by the way, finally

1046
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,159
back as well too. That was someone who hadn't played

1047
00:46:55,159 --> 00:46:58,639
the entire season. But I find myself going through all

1048
00:46:58,679 --> 00:47:01,519
the bodies and I'm asking, well, how do you button

1049
00:47:01,599 --> 00:47:03,360
up this rotation if you're ever at full strength? I

1050
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:05,519
think you could make the case that well, they're just

1051
00:47:05,559 --> 00:47:07,599
never going to be at full strength. They understand that reality,

1052
00:47:07,639 --> 00:47:10,199
and this is how it's gonna be But like we've

1053
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,360
talked about, I mentioned them at the top, like Gigi

1054
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,559
Jackson Vince Williams have yet to play, and those are

1055
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:17,039
guys who make a lot of sense on this team,

1056
00:47:17,039 --> 00:47:18,760
are very important to them last year, and those were

1057
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,320
two players that I think coming into this year certainly

1058
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,480
more than a Jay Huff or Jalen Wells or Scotty

1059
00:47:23,519 --> 00:47:25,480
Kipp and Jr. You were, well, they're gonna need to

1060
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,599
contribute to like the best version of the Grizzlies, And

1061
00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:30,400
now it's well, how do you integrate them upon return?

1062
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:33,519
And I still think, look, some of the numbers aren't

1063
00:47:33,519 --> 00:47:35,440
gonna support this, but like the half court offense can

1064
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,320
still look very choppy. They're not a team that you're

1065
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,880
going to trust. Is like from these dead stops, is

1066
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,920
going to be able to space the floor adequately or

1067
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:45,079
maybe all of a sudden you get to the right

1068
00:47:45,119 --> 00:47:49,000
shots at the same time, Like all of these injuries

1069
00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:51,719
you mentioned, growth from like the players who have either

1070
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:53,480
come out of nowhere or there's just not a huge

1071
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,079
sample size off which to work. I think we're really

1072
00:47:56,079 --> 00:47:59,480
seeing the benefits from what Jaron Jackson Junior specifically went

1073
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,039
through last year year, where Desmond Bain had kind of

1074
00:48:02,079 --> 00:48:04,519
been by his second year, he was shouldered with more

1075
00:48:04,639 --> 00:48:08,000
just self creation responsibility. Jared Jackson Junior. I think a

1076
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,079
lot of that was explored last year Grant. This year,

1077
00:48:11,159 --> 00:48:13,840
more of his baskets are going unassisted, and yet his

1078
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:18,159
efficiency is just better his driving game, Like, yeah, he's

1079
00:48:18,199 --> 00:48:20,079
not playmaking out of it, he's not drawing a ton

1080
00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:21,199
of fouls out of it, and he could still be

1081
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,719
a little turnover prone with that handle. He is shooting

1082
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,239
sixty five point eight percent on drives this year. And

1083
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,159
again this is with the team that even when their

1084
00:48:29,199 --> 00:48:32,280
offense is on, they don't have Pristine's bacing, Like, he

1085
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,440
just looks better operating through traffic when you're actually looking

1086
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,840
at third eighty three players Grant that are averaging at

1087
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:42,199
least seven drives per game. TJ. McConnell because of course,

1088
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:44,760
and Darius Garland also, because of course, the only player

1089
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,599
is shooting a higher clip on those drives from that group.

1090
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,079
So the Jaron Jackson Junior growth is a huge deal

1091
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,360
here because even if you're you're looking at this depth

1092
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,440
when you are dealing with a banged up Desmond Baine

1093
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,000
and Marcus mart En, John Morant, like the depth that

1094
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:04,159
we just talked about, non Jared Jackson Junior, they are

1095
00:49:04,199 --> 00:49:09,079
not carrying you offensive like Scotti. Pippen Junior is a playmaker, sure,

1096
00:49:09,119 --> 00:49:11,119
but like what Jared Jackson Junior is able to do

1097
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,760
is just a self starting score now, or even if

1098
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:15,920
you want to call him a more complicated play finisher.

1099
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,320
I think it was always gonna be huge, But knowing

1100
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,400
the Grizzlies' injury history, like John Rance always feels like

1101
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,800
he's just dealing with stuff. It's massive. It's not just.

1102
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,079
It's just absolutely massive to the full strength version of

1103
00:49:29,079 --> 00:49:31,199
the Grizzlies, to the partial strength version of the Grizzlies,

1104
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,519
to the decimated version of the Grizzlies. So my concern

1105
00:49:34,599 --> 00:49:37,320
for them in the regular season isn't high. They're always

1106
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:41,079
just gonna win games, but to get to their peak, Like, Okay,

1107
00:49:41,119 --> 00:49:42,679
we know what our rotation is with all our best

1108
00:49:42,679 --> 00:49:45,400
players available. We've had enough sample to understand what the

1109
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,360
best lineups are in that situation, and we're just gonna

1110
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:51,079
be ready to hit the gas come playoff time. That's

1111
00:49:51,119 --> 00:49:53,719
the thing. Okay, you're getting all this information on all

1112
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,119
these individuals on what you can do on your depth,

1113
00:49:56,599 --> 00:49:59,320
how do you truncate that down to what would look

1114
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:02,480
like a a championship contender come playoff time.

1115
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think my concern level just to jump to

1116
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,960
that is like a four, and and it's it's mitigated

1117
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:10,599
a lot by the fact that they just keep finding

1118
00:50:10,639 --> 00:50:13,400
guys and and if as long as people the big

1119
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,920
names are healthy, then you'll just you'll you'll happily take

1120
00:50:17,079 --> 00:50:19,599
the problem of and I think you alluded to this,

1121
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:21,880
like you'll just take it's a good problem if you've

1122
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,159
got to figure out, like which of these six guys

1123
00:50:24,199 --> 00:50:27,639
that were not factors in our planning like two years ago,

1124
00:50:28,199 --> 00:50:32,119
do we like give real rotation minutes too? I do

1125
00:50:32,199 --> 00:50:35,519
think though, like four is still like I guess it's

1126
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:37,400
it's not a it's not a one. And the reason

1127
00:50:37,519 --> 00:50:40,159
is because we're sort of just going down this road

1128
00:50:40,199 --> 00:50:43,239
again of injuries, and it's it's like, well it is

1129
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,800
jaw just some gonna be someone that just is just

1130
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,239
not going to top fifty five games like on average

1131
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:51,199
going forward and is baying somebody that just can't.

1132
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,119
Speaker 3: Like that's that's the source of my concern.

1133
00:50:53,159 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 2: It's more just like are we are we ever gonna

1134
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:59,199
get you know, three straight months uninterrupted of the best

1135
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,239
version of this team him like, that'd be awesome if

1136
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:04,519
it happened April, May June, But like, I just we

1137
00:51:04,559 --> 00:51:06,639
don't know. If the way things have gone the last

1138
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:08,639
couple of years, it's hard to be confident.

1139
00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:11,199
Speaker 1: Desn't been another one dealing with the oblique. Wasn't that

1140
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,840
something you were saying, that's like a trend upward.

1141
00:51:13,519 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 3: Trend follow what's going on?

1142
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: Oblik's in Pelvis's another team that is. I would say

1143
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:24,880
they're not super banged up, but they're missing Kevin Durant.

1144
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:26,480
That feels like a big deal. He's dealing with the

1145
00:51:26,519 --> 00:51:30,000
calf strain. Uh, he leaves the league in minutes per game.

1146
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,320
Those are injuries that I would normally be like, well,

1147
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,840
is it because he's just playing too much? But Kevin

1148
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,719
Durant loves to hoop, so you can't play. That's the

1149
00:51:38,199 --> 00:51:42,239
that's the rebuke there. Uh. Grant the suns, I mean

1150
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:44,599
we haven't really dug into them yet on this podcast

1151
00:51:44,639 --> 00:51:46,840
for the season, so you've any general impressions on that.

1152
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:51,119
My impression was that like Kad would probably be like

1153
00:51:51,159 --> 00:51:53,000
third or fourth on the MVP ballot if he wasn't

1154
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,079
slated to miss enough games where the minutes kind of

1155
00:51:55,079 --> 00:51:57,800
separate him from the you know, the Yo Kitch, the Tatum,

1156
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,840
the guys who are you know, like ending their sample.

1157
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:04,960
But he has been look the offensive for him, the

1158
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,480
offensive process is it feels like they're putting him in

1159
00:52:07,519 --> 00:52:11,280
more advantageous positions, but like he's still cooking well. He's

1160
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,599
averaging one point one four point one point one four

1161
00:52:13,639 --> 00:52:16,920
points per ISO possession right now, which is just bonkers.

1162
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:18,679
And I think I've been even more impressed by the

1163
00:52:18,679 --> 00:52:21,039
way just with what he's able to do defensively when

1164
00:52:21,039 --> 00:52:23,360
he's not on the ball, the rotations that he's making,

1165
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,039
and he really is I know, you have Ryan Dunn

1166
00:52:26,039 --> 00:52:28,000
and you have voiced on like he's kind of the key,

1167
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,840
the skeleton gay to them unlocking those smaller lineups where

1168
00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,360
they don't have a big on the court that have

1169
00:52:34,519 --> 00:52:37,079
worked well for them basically since Kdi arrived.

1170
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I mean just zooming out like this. It's

1171
00:52:40,079 --> 00:52:43,400
a weird team. We're both kind of talking offline. It's like,

1172
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,320
I don't have a great feel for this team. Part

1173
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,320
of that's because there's you know, several new players playing

1174
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:51,760
major roles, both acquisitions and guys like Tyas Jones and

1175
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:56,239
and Draftees like done. The couple of things have struck

1176
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,599
me about their makeup. Now, look there, what are they

1177
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,519
nine to two? But like that, I think they have

1178
00:53:01,679 --> 00:53:02,960
the Their point.

1179
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,480
Speaker 1: Different off defense at nine and two is just right,

1180
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:07,480
baz are And you can dig into the specific games

1181
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:09,440
that have contributed that, but that's just still wild.

1182
00:53:09,679 --> 00:53:12,159
Speaker 2: It's it's well, I mean then the shorthand of it

1183
00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:14,719
is like, if we were looking at projecting them going forward,

1184
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:16,679
we'd probably view them as a team that had like

1185
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:18,880
two or three fewer wins than they actually do. Just

1186
00:53:19,159 --> 00:53:21,920
you're trying to trust the offensive and defensive ratings is

1187
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,800
being more predictive. So the first thing that jumps out

1188
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,440
is like they're starters, Tias Jones, Bilbooker, Katie and Nurkic

1189
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,400
are getting crushed like minus fourteen point three per hundred

1190
00:53:31,639 --> 00:53:35,840
in one hundred and sixty eight possessions and like the

1191
00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:37,960
the stuff that makes you just want to dismiss that.

1192
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,679
The other on off numbers that are just confounding are

1193
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,719
you know, guys like Royce O'Neill and Mason Plumbley. The

1194
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,519
offense is better with them on the floor as opposed

1195
00:53:47,559 --> 00:53:49,440
to start. So it's just like, okay, so we just

1196
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,079
can't trust any of the on off or lineup data

1197
00:53:52,079 --> 00:53:55,000
because no sane person is going to say that starting

1198
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,920
lineup I don't like it. You know, maybe as a

1199
00:53:56,920 --> 00:53:59,840
closing lineup we can have a conversation. But and like, well,

1200
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,039
there's need more minutes with it.

1201
00:54:02,039 --> 00:54:03,840
Speaker 1: Right, Tigas, I don't know that I've seen ty as

1202
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:04,840
close the game yet.

1203
00:54:04,679 --> 00:54:07,519
Speaker 2: For that, right, That's one of the questions going forward,

1204
00:54:07,559 --> 00:54:09,559
is like what do you put out there in the

1205
00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:11,280
games that matter that are close at the end. And

1206
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,239
also part of the reason Phoenix has outperformed its net

1207
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:15,920
rating is it's been a good clutch team, which is

1208
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:17,480
very different from last year.

1209
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 3: When they were one of the worst fourth quarter teams

1210
00:54:19,039 --> 00:54:19,519
in the league.

1211
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 2: The other thing that's I think, so all that stuff

1212
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:24,320
is kind of like all the lineup and on off

1213
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,559
data is just it's early, there's new pieces whatever, like

1214
00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:30,519
kind of you can kind of not totally dismiss it,

1215
00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:33,599
but let's not freak out about it. I think a

1216
00:54:33,679 --> 00:54:36,719
trend that is potentially a problem is that this team

1217
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,599
just never ever gets to the rim on offense and

1218
00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:43,960
and Phoenix. That's like just priced into the Phoenix experience

1219
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:48,519
because they've been thirtieth in RIMTEP frequency counting this season

1220
00:54:48,559 --> 00:54:51,119
for the last five years. So they just like and

1221
00:54:51,159 --> 00:54:55,840
that's spanning how many three coaches for three coaches, a

1222
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,519
bunch of personnel changes, like it touches the Chris Paul

1223
00:54:58,599 --> 00:55:01,440
Era DeAndre Ayton was involved.

1224
00:55:01,159 --> 00:55:01,639
Speaker 3: In some of that.

1225
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 2: So like, I don't know what it is in Phoenix,

1226
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,920
but like the RIM is just off limits. It helps

1227
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,039
their shooting more threes than last year. It's still a

1228
00:55:08,119 --> 00:55:10,639
very mid range heavy team, and we could just like

1229
00:55:11,039 --> 00:55:13,199
go find clips of us wondering how big of a

1230
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,000
problem that is from any of the last five postseasons.

1231
00:55:16,039 --> 00:55:20,559
Probably that So like just their shot, diet and some

1232
00:55:20,679 --> 00:55:24,000
of the makeup, I just have questions about. But like

1233
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:28,079
with Duran out still being nine and two, I mean,

1234
00:55:28,559 --> 00:55:31,480
I guess it's a successful start right just where they

1235
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,840
are in the standings relative to some of the difficulties

1236
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,320
and inconsistencies and I don't know, unanswered questions right, Like

1237
00:55:38,679 --> 00:55:41,679
it's been a positive start despite like I don't feel

1238
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:44,519
like we have a good pulp feel for this team yet.

1239
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would probably agree with everything you said there,

1240
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:52,159
I wondered too, like are they one sort of alteration,

1241
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:53,840
not that it's easy for them to make the alteration

1242
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,719
of just being elite, like in this one certain area

1243
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,039
where it's okay, like if you had a better defensive center,

1244
00:56:01,079 --> 00:56:03,719
I know use of NuRD wage is rim protection numbers

1245
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:05,320
are fine this year, but if you had a better

1246
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,760
defensive center, Like how much better is the defense overall?

1247
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,320
Where you've kind of simplified the workload for KD for sure.

1248
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,360
And look, Bradley bealf and like he's covered some really

1249
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,000
tough assignments there, not that the center positions necessarily gonna

1250
00:56:17,039 --> 00:56:19,159
help with that. They've also dealt with some It's also

1251
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,960
what if Grace and Allen been banged up? But what

1252
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:24,320
if he was just had been shooting the ball better,

1253
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,559
Like he's now up to thirty five percent, But again

1254
00:56:26,679 --> 00:56:29,800
keyword being up to there, And it does feel like

1255
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,880
there's still some things that might be unsettled beyond there.

1256
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,039
There are top guys which look, now is the time

1257
00:56:35,039 --> 00:56:37,480
to figure it out. And you're nine and two anyway,

1258
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,199
So I think my level of concern here I made

1259
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,400
jokes about Kevin Durant playing too much. My concern would

1260
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,679
be that they don't have the option of playing him

1261
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,760
less right, I'm not concerned about this injury as people

1262
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:52,960
pointed out, like Kevin Durant isn't so much injury prone

1263
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,400
as he just had these like two sort of like

1264
00:56:55,519 --> 00:56:59,599
majoris absences that weren't necessarily related. At the same time,

1265
00:56:59,599 --> 00:57:01,800
though this is age thirty six season, he's leading the

1266
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:04,880
league of minutes per game and he looked to me

1267
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:08,159
he looks great anyway most of the time. That being said,

1268
00:57:08,559 --> 00:57:10,920
does this team Grant have the option of playing him

1269
00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:12,079
fewer minutes?

1270
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 2: I mean, if you don't where I you know, you'd

1271
00:57:17,039 --> 00:57:20,079
say where are you getting the offense that you're losing?

1272
00:57:20,119 --> 00:57:22,119
And frankly, like you pointed out, where are you getting

1273
00:57:22,239 --> 00:57:25,800
the length on defense? That also doesn't like compromise you

1274
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,280
on offense. And Nurkic is a starting center in the

1275
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,920
NBA that has no range. Shooting three three is a

1276
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,000
game not making him. He's shooting like forty four percent

1277
00:57:33,039 --> 00:57:36,159
from the field. Like that's you can't have a paint

1278
00:57:36,199 --> 00:57:39,519
bound center essentially making forty four percent shots.

1279
00:57:40,039 --> 00:57:42,360
Speaker 3: I guess they sort of have to play Durant this much.

1280
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,119
Speaker 2: I just think you're gonna keep running into this type

1281
00:57:45,119 --> 00:57:46,800
of thing where he might play nine or ten games

1282
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:48,400
and you lose him for a couple of weeks and

1283
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,159
hopefully that's all it is. But given his age, given

1284
00:57:51,199 --> 00:57:54,920
the injuries, as you alluded to, like, there's there's downside

1285
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:55,360
for sure?

1286
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 3: Where where?

1287
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 2: And I think the last thing I was gonna ask

1288
00:57:58,519 --> 00:58:01,280
you is, and I'll project because I'm kind of telling

1289
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:01,800
on myself a.

1290
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 3: Little bit, why is that? Why is the.

1291
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 2: Reliance on Kevin Durant and the uncertainty that he can

1292
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:09,440
be relied upon for a full season in playoffs?

1293
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:11,639
Speaker 3: Is that why? I guess I don't.

1294
00:58:11,719 --> 00:58:13,920
Speaker 2: You can lump yourself in if you want view them

1295
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,639
as like a true, true threat to make the.

1296
00:58:17,599 --> 00:58:20,199
Speaker 3: Finals in the West, Like I just I don't know why.

1297
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, but I don't see

1298
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:25,960
them even healthy, being on like that top tier of like,

1299
00:58:26,079 --> 00:58:27,559
oh yeah, they could make the finals.

1300
00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 3: I just I don't know what it is. And I'm

1301
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:30,239
thinking maybe.

1302
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:33,599
Speaker 2: It's the reliance on a guy with Durant's mileage to

1303
00:58:33,639 --> 00:58:35,480
have to play damn your forty minutes for you.

1304
00:58:35,440 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 1: To be an interesting it might be which is and

1305
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,320
I don't think that's unfair, but also how much of

1306
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,480
it is kind of skewed by even by the way

1307
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,719
this is, I've seen some Devin Booker concern stumble across

1308
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:47,519
multiple timelines. I can't get there.

1309
00:58:47,639 --> 00:58:50,119
Speaker 3: He's just not going in. He's still the same guy.

1310
00:58:50,159 --> 00:58:52,079
Speaker 1: And he was against Utah like he wo was the

1311
00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:53,079
eleven or twenty fourth four yan.

1312
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 3: But he's fine.

1313
00:58:53,960 --> 00:58:55,719
Speaker 1: Devin Booker's not a guy that you need to be

1314
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:57,440
concerned about. So I know that we need to feign

1315
00:58:57,679 --> 00:59:00,360
like concern. Sometimes that's not a situation where you do.

1316
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:02,079
But like, how much of that is just okay? Well,

1317
00:59:02,119 --> 00:59:03,800
some of these guys are just gonna start shooting better

1318
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,440
use of Nurkics. Might not be one of them, but

1319
00:59:06,199 --> 00:59:09,119
he's got like Alan and let's use Allan Bookers an

1320
00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:11,119
examples specifically, those are two guys that are gonna hit

1321
00:59:11,159 --> 00:59:15,039
their shots at a higher clip. You would think, I

1322
00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:17,360
maybe I would feel the same way you did, because

1323
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:19,079
I do think they were lying too much on Kevin Grant,

1324
00:59:19,079 --> 00:59:20,599
and I also do not think they have the ability

1325
00:59:20,639 --> 00:59:23,079
to rely on him any less. And it's weird that

1326
00:59:23,119 --> 00:59:25,599
it's defensively that I feel that way, right, I guess

1327
00:59:25,639 --> 00:59:28,519
maybe it's not weird but whatever. Uh, I have confidence

1328
00:59:28,559 --> 00:59:31,079
probably that they would make a trade. But my bigger

1329
00:59:31,119 --> 00:59:34,320
thing is who is just run away with the West?

1330
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,280
I know that we just talked about the Thunder and

1331
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:38,119
that would be the team too, And like the Nuggets

1332
00:59:38,119 --> 00:59:41,400
have had some pretty high highs lately, we're dealing with

1333
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:43,199
the home grand injury and okay, see, and there's been

1334
00:59:43,199 --> 00:59:46,360
some money even I offensively for them too. Who is

1335
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,159
running away with the wet? Like, who is the team

1336
00:59:48,159 --> 00:59:50,800
that you just don't view like they can't beat? Is

1337
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:52,519
it still Minnesota? Sure?

1338
00:59:52,719 --> 00:59:53,599
Speaker 3: But maybe yeah?

1339
00:59:53,639 --> 00:59:56,280
Speaker 1: Maybe? But I think, well, I look at the Western

1340
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:59,039
Conference as it's clearly better than the East. But I

1341
00:59:59,039 --> 01:00:01,400
don't like last year felt very much like, Okay, the

1342
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,760
Timberwolves and the Nuggets and the Thunder, we're running away

1343
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:06,760
with it, and I just don't feel that way. Like

1344
01:00:07,079 --> 01:00:08,760
I pushed this in our discord the other night, We're

1345
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:10,559
not gonna talk about the Mavericks in this one. They're

1346
01:00:10,639 --> 01:00:13,159
under five hundreds. We record this and I feel fantastic

1347
01:00:13,199 --> 01:00:13,559
about that.

1348
01:00:13,679 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 3: No problems, Yeah, no problems.

1349
01:00:16,159 --> 01:00:18,599
Speaker 1: We move on to our next team. We're gonna talk

1350
01:00:18,639 --> 01:00:22,000
to them Indiana Pacers here, which they've been bitten by

1351
01:00:22,039 --> 01:00:24,800
the injury bug. It's not to the degree when you're

1352
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:26,719
talking about some of these big names that have missed time,

1353
01:00:27,119 --> 01:00:31,559
but you're looking at tyres Halburton is playing through back stuff.

1354
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,599
They have two centers, not Miles Turner, but see James Wiseman,

1355
01:00:35,639 --> 01:00:40,199
Isaiah Jackson, Torn Achilles, Andrew Nemhard. He's been dealing with

1356
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:42,320
has he been dealing with a multitude of stuff? He's

1357
01:00:42,320 --> 01:00:45,840
dealing with a knee issue. Yeah, and then Aaron E.

1358
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:48,320
Smith has that ankle injury that's going around. And look,

1359
01:00:49,199 --> 01:00:52,000
Aaron Smith's okay, he's wing sized, Andrew Nemhard is not.

1360
01:00:52,239 --> 01:00:55,840
But they account for two of Indie's like wing defenders basically,

1361
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,280
So they're in this weird spot and they're another team

1362
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,400
that I don't necessar certinly know what to make of. Now,

1363
01:01:02,519 --> 01:01:05,039
what I will say if we're looking for if we're

1364
01:01:05,039 --> 01:01:08,679
looking for positive points, I think it's safe to say

1365
01:01:08,719 --> 01:01:10,920
that both of us were too low on Benedict Mathrin

1366
01:01:11,159 --> 01:01:13,599
at this point. I still don't know if he's what

1367
01:01:13,639 --> 01:01:16,320
they need defensively, and I would argue that he is not.

1368
01:01:17,199 --> 01:01:20,679
But he is held up against some pretty tough assignments

1369
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,480
this year. And he's been playing so well on offense

1370
01:01:23,519 --> 01:01:25,159
that I like you, I don't even think at this point,

1371
01:01:25,159 --> 01:01:27,159
when you're fully healthy, is he coming out of the

1372
01:01:27,159 --> 01:01:29,320
starting five. I don't think you could even. I don't

1373
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:30,000
think you could do it.

1374
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:31,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1375
01:01:31,199 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 2: Well, so I had an interesting, like I don't know,

1376
01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:37,360
a little episode when I was kind of looking at

1377
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,360
his numbers and trying to reevaluate, like, Okay, we do

1378
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:44,880
need to make some concessions that he's he's maybe capable

1379
01:01:44,920 --> 01:01:48,400
of more than last year showed, and I caught myself thinking, like,

1380
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:52,480
now I put the defense aside, but offensively not a lot.

1381
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,639
Speaker 3: Is real different in terms of like shot shot.

1382
01:01:55,440 --> 01:02:00,679
Speaker 2: Makeup free, Like really, what's happening is his his like

1383
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:03,519
offensive profile is more similar to his rookie year. He's

1384
01:02:03,519 --> 01:02:06,360
just playing more, but the biggest difference is like he's

1385
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,360
just making shots. And I was like, I caught myself

1386
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:11,960
dismissing that as like, oh, well, he's just making more shots.

1387
01:02:12,239 --> 01:02:14,280
And then if you step back and try to think

1388
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:17,480
about how fucking stupid that is to like dismiss a

1389
01:02:17,519 --> 01:02:21,320
guy that's just making baskets more frequently in your analysis,

1390
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:23,079
like no, no, that's very good.

1391
01:02:23,199 --> 01:02:25,679
Speaker 3: You should try to make more shots. That's better on

1392
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:28,880
offense than making fewer shots. He's just he's more efficient.

1393
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:30,519
Like that's that's been the difference.

1394
01:02:31,079 --> 01:02:34,199
Speaker 2: Now whether where you fall on like, well that's sustainable

1395
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:35,440
or isn't, I don't know.

1396
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:37,039
Speaker 3: I guess that's in the eye of the beholder.

1397
01:02:37,039 --> 01:02:39,679
Speaker 2: But like I had to check myself because I was

1398
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:42,920
ready to dismiss his production as well, he's just the

1399
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:44,960
ball's going in, that's not going to continue, Like, well

1400
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:46,719
why not. It's his third year and he's got a

1401
01:02:46,719 --> 01:02:49,280
big role for the first time since the rookie season,

1402
01:02:49,719 --> 01:02:52,840
and he's he's running with it. So like we you know,

1403
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:56,400
I I definitely had to like push my priors out

1404
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:57,960
of the way a little bit and just give him

1405
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,599
the credit that he's earned. He's just if you're a

1406
01:03:00,639 --> 01:03:04,599
score first player and you're scoring more efficiently, like you're

1407
01:03:04,639 --> 01:03:06,559
doing your job, like that's that's a plus.

1408
01:03:06,599 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 3: We can't. I can't knock him for anything.

1409
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 1: Right and so yeah, so I guess that makes sense.

1410
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:14,880
I do think so, yeah, you're you're looking at the

1411
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:16,679
shot efficiency for sure. The finishing at the rim has

1412
01:03:16,679 --> 01:03:20,119
been incredible. It does feel like even when maybe he

1413
01:03:20,199 --> 01:03:22,960
has the ball for longer. There's just a quicker, smarter

1414
01:03:23,079 --> 01:03:24,920
decision maker in there. And that was one of our

1415
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:27,440
biggest qualms where it's okay, like you need to catch

1416
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:29,480
and decision make right away on this team because you're

1417
01:03:29,519 --> 01:03:32,599
not going to be breaking down these defenses. I think

1418
01:03:32,599 --> 01:03:34,840
he's done a much better job of that. He's passing

1419
01:03:35,119 --> 01:03:37,039
on a higher percentage of his drives and so that

1420
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:39,079
shows me, and the assist rate is up, I believe too.

1421
01:03:39,079 --> 01:03:41,280
It's like, Okay, there's a little bit more of this

1422
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:45,400
complex decision maker there. And again, is he what they

1423
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:47,840
need defensively is a question because that ultimately comes down

1424
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:51,000
to what this team needs the most. However, because of

1425
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:54,280
how Tyre's Halberton has played this season, like Ben mcmatherins

1426
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,599
become super important by the way, as is the other

1427
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,760
positive I wanted to shout out here, Pascal Siakam is

1428
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:00,320
ball and.

1429
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,199
Speaker 3: He's been really good. He's been their best player.

1430
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:06,039
Speaker 2: Like it's like Haliburton's at sixteen and eight, which for him,

1431
01:04:06,199 --> 01:04:08,639
those are great normally, but that's way below where we

1432
01:04:08,639 --> 01:04:11,679
were hoping he'd get forty percent from the field, under

1433
01:04:11,719 --> 01:04:13,960
thirty percent from three, Like he's just he has not

1434
01:04:14,079 --> 01:04:14,599
been on me.

1435
01:04:14,679 --> 01:04:15,639
Speaker 3: You could argue he's their.

1436
01:04:15,519 --> 01:04:18,559
Speaker 2: Most important player because the roleie plays. But Siakam twenty

1437
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:22,280
seven and five on like a fifty forty plus split

1438
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:23,079
like he's just been.

1439
01:04:23,239 --> 01:04:23,679
Speaker 3: He's been.

1440
01:04:24,599 --> 01:04:27,119
Speaker 2: He's been like an all star basically, and Haliburton just

1441
01:04:27,119 --> 01:04:28,320
has not played at that level.

1442
01:04:28,679 --> 01:04:31,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Pascal's having one point one to five

1443
01:04:31,559 --> 01:04:33,639
points out of post stuff, one point six four points

1444
01:04:33,679 --> 01:04:36,199
in transition and enjoying fouls like twenty five percent of

1445
01:04:36,239 --> 01:04:40,880
the time when he's in transition. He's been huge. The

1446
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,639
Tyres Haliburton stuff is weird because I don't know how

1447
01:04:43,719 --> 01:04:46,199
much the back is impacting him. I also don't know

1448
01:04:46,239 --> 01:04:48,880
how much he's still trying to find a balance between

1449
01:04:49,519 --> 01:04:52,280
still being a central part of the offense and not

1450
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:56,280
necessarily being it's all everything, and there's like some of

1451
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:59,760
the stuff that feels clearly offense, like the efficiency. Do

1452
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:02,199
you dismiss it? Are you concerned by it? Giving how

1453
01:05:02,239 --> 01:05:05,239
he closed or most of his clothes like coming back

1454
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,519
from that hamstring injury last year. But this is something

1455
01:05:07,519 --> 01:05:10,599
that stands out to me. Last year, Grant thirty excuse me,

1456
01:05:10,679 --> 01:05:13,800
forty three point eight percent of his drives ended in

1457
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:16,480
a field goal attempt or a foul this year that's

1458
01:05:16,519 --> 01:05:19,400
all the way down to thirty six percent, And so

1459
01:05:19,519 --> 01:05:22,559
it's just like there's more of a passive nature to

1460
01:05:22,599 --> 01:05:25,159
the way he's playing, and not in a good way.

1461
01:05:25,639 --> 01:05:28,559
And it also was coincided with I saw some people

1462
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:31,679
in Kaitlyn Cooper Shaker at basketball. She wrote road a

1463
01:05:31,719 --> 01:05:35,280
fantastic piece earlier in the season where teams were, like,

1464
01:05:35,559 --> 01:05:39,119
the theory was, they're crashing the offensive glass like to

1465
01:05:39,199 --> 01:05:41,400
bring the Pacers closer to the basket so that they

1466
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:44,920
can keep Indiana out of transition. And so when you

1467
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:48,480
start to dig into that this season, Indiana is not

1468
01:05:48,639 --> 01:05:52,679
in transition nearly as much like the raw rankings as

1469
01:05:52,679 --> 01:05:56,599
they usually are. Last year. They're twenty second in transition

1470
01:05:56,639 --> 01:05:59,239
frequency right now as opposed to seventh last year. But

1471
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:02,079
the margins so kind of different there, and they are

1472
01:06:02,159 --> 01:06:05,159
when you dig into just the average possession time, they're

1473
01:06:05,159 --> 01:06:07,000
still just near the top of the league like they're

1474
01:06:07,039 --> 01:06:09,360
I think they're fifth overall and average offensive possession time.

1475
01:06:09,599 --> 01:06:12,119
But there is something that just feels like it's a

1476
01:06:12,159 --> 01:06:15,000
tick or three slower about this offense overall. And I

1477
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:17,639
do believe, to be fair that part of that is

1478
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:20,920
just okay, Well, you have Pascal Siakam, Like that's someone

1479
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:23,920
who's going to be more methodical with how he does

1480
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:28,360
break down defenses. But the offense, and look, I say

1481
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:31,159
all this, and as we record this, the Pacers offense

1482
01:06:31,280 --> 01:06:34,719
ranks twelfth in point score possession. So it's not dire.

1483
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:36,760
But the issue is when you're gonna be a bottom

1484
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:39,960
five ish defensive team, yeah, like you have to be

1485
01:06:40,039 --> 01:06:43,599
in the top five offensively basically, and they're not there

1486
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:47,440
right now. And I would argue, yeah, there are other

1487
01:06:47,559 --> 01:06:50,000
contributing fact Miles Turner's been all over the place this

1488
01:06:50,079 --> 01:06:53,559
year another name that's been like he's shooting forty point

1489
01:06:53,599 --> 01:06:56,400
eight percent on his threes. But defensively, this is someone

1490
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:58,039
who you don't trust to like make a ton of

1491
01:06:58,079 --> 01:07:01,079
rebounds anyway, but he just feels even less present on

1492
01:07:01,119 --> 01:07:02,960
certain possessions and he is at what is he averaging

1493
01:07:03,079 --> 01:07:05,320
is at seven point three boards per game six point

1494
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:09,880
four defensively, I just his performances feel so up and

1495
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,079
down more so than usual here. So there are other

1496
01:07:12,199 --> 01:07:16,039
contributing factors to why the Pacers might be here. But

1497
01:07:16,079 --> 01:07:18,559
it's also kind of all right, let's just say Andrew

1498
01:07:18,599 --> 01:07:21,599
Nemhart starts making more shots. Okay, great, and your center

1499
01:07:21,639 --> 01:07:23,960
depth is kind of obliterated. But it does kind of

1500
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:27,199
come back to if your margin for error is that

1501
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,760
thin to begin with, then it reinforces how important that

1502
01:07:31,119 --> 01:07:34,840
Tyre's Haliburton being peak Tyre's Haliburton is. And I'm struggling

1503
01:07:35,559 --> 01:07:38,559
how much to actually be concerned versus Well, if he's

1504
01:07:38,559 --> 01:07:41,199
dealing with a back thing, that's an explanation. But then again,

1505
01:07:41,199 --> 01:07:43,519
if he's dealing with a back thing, is that gonna

1506
01:07:43,519 --> 01:07:43,880
go away?

1507
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 3: Like?

1508
01:07:44,599 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 1: Is he just going to play his way out of it?

1509
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:48,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the deal.

1510
01:07:48,199 --> 01:07:50,199
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought up the defensive stuff because that

1511
01:07:50,239 --> 01:07:52,800
was the last piece of or the last little piece

1512
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:55,440
of this that I was really struck by. So you know,

1513
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:58,760
we understand the Pacers profile. You're dead on like, if

1514
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:00,760
you're going to be this bad defensive, your offense has

1515
01:08:00,800 --> 01:08:03,199
to be equally, you know, just as good on the

1516
01:08:03,239 --> 01:08:05,079
other end to sort of break even or hope to

1517
01:08:05,079 --> 01:08:08,400
do better than that. Their defensive profile like take like

1518
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:14,079
shot location data, Uh, you know, similar strengths weaknesses, like

1519
01:08:14,159 --> 01:08:17,199
all across the board, they basically look like the same

1520
01:08:17,279 --> 01:08:20,880
defense as a year ago, except they've been really lucky

1521
01:08:21,199 --> 01:08:23,840
that opponents are missing threes. So I do think like

1522
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:29,039
there's downward mobility for this defense, which is like really

1523
01:08:29,159 --> 01:08:31,920
terrifying because the offense hasn't been as good to offset it.

1524
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:36,319
So that feeds into my concern level is higher for

1525
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:39,159
this team than any of the ones we've covered so far,

1526
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:43,439
And it's partly because mainly because the defense just does

1527
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,880
not look like it's gonna be like functional to the

1528
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:48,840
level it would need to be, but also because like

1529
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:50,560
this is a team that I don't think we did this,

1530
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:52,640
but plenty of people said, like, well, who else is

1531
01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:54,319
in the top four in the East, or who's gonna

1532
01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:56,960
who's who can who can win a playoff round? Or

1533
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:59,199
you know this is a conference finalist again? Can they

1534
01:08:59,239 --> 01:09:01,600
prove they're not the two anyone Hawks? And it's like,

1535
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:05,119
man if Halliburton is not the first half of last

1536
01:09:05,119 --> 01:09:08,079
season Haliburton and if the defense is just as bad,

1537
01:09:08,960 --> 01:09:10,960
like I don't know, man, Like what is this.

1538
01:09:11,119 --> 01:09:13,039
Speaker 3: Is this just a play in team? Like are they

1539
01:09:13,079 --> 01:09:13,560
can they be?

1540
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,640
Speaker 2: They're they're they're a five hundred team so far and

1541
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:17,640
they've had bad injury luck on and on, but like

1542
01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:20,800
I'm not seeing the upside if the defense is gonna

1543
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,279
be like this and the offense is not going to

1544
01:09:23,319 --> 01:09:25,960
be second best in the league or whatever it is,

1545
01:09:26,079 --> 01:09:27,720
or like one of the biggest stories of the early

1546
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:31,079
season last year, which it was then what what kind

1547
01:09:31,119 --> 01:09:33,319
of ceiling are we talking about? And it's just to me,

1548
01:09:33,399 --> 01:09:36,279
it's just not nearly as high as maybe optimists would

1549
01:09:36,279 --> 01:09:36,680
have hoped.

1550
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I don't know, do you find any solace

1551
01:09:41,199 --> 01:09:42,760
in knowing? Okay, when you go through kind of what

1552
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:44,840
their core lineups would be, some of them are like

1553
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,439
league averager better on defense, and they're just notable net

1554
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:50,800
pluses or just well, if you're kind of dependent on

1555
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:55,439
these three or four makeups, we talked about margin for

1556
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:59,239
error that you just don't have. And I also, I

1557
01:09:59,279 --> 01:10:02,520
don't like thinking this way, but I'm looking at how

1558
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:05,079
well Benedic Matherne has played. This isn't a Ben I

1559
01:10:05,079 --> 01:10:06,760
want to make it, so, this isn't a Benedic Matherne

1560
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,800
shortcoming thing, and I'm just wondering to this point it

1561
01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,479
has mattered, But how much better does this version of

1562
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:15,960
Benanick Matherne make The version of the Pacers that we

1563
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:19,159
saw last year? Because I don't think he's fixing again.

1564
01:10:19,199 --> 01:10:21,920
I think he's been better. I think he's been He's

1565
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:23,960
had really good moments defensively. We saw some of those

1566
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,560
last year before his shoulder injury. Like how much is

1567
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:30,520
even his quote unquote breakout or his improvement elevating their

1568
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:33,159
immediate ceiling? And I think some people would be inclined

1569
01:10:33,199 --> 01:10:34,760
to that might be where to close it here on them?

1570
01:10:34,840 --> 01:10:37,000
Is well, that just ups his trade value because this

1571
01:10:37,039 --> 01:10:39,600
team is ripe to make some sort of a consolidation trade.

1572
01:10:39,680 --> 01:10:41,680
I just find myself wondering, Okay, but like who's the

1573
01:10:42,359 --> 01:10:44,880
who's the guy? Because you could talk about like a

1574
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:47,439
like the mid end swing would be like a Dorian

1575
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,159
Phinney Smith type. That's not solving you rebounding. Is it

1576
01:10:50,199 --> 01:10:52,000
going to solve all your defensive issues? It gives you

1577
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,159
probably like just a more competent wing stopper or someone

1578
01:10:55,199 --> 01:10:57,760
to move about the wings. Is this a team that

1579
01:10:57,800 --> 01:11:01,000
would go all in after giving up draft equity for

1580
01:11:01,039 --> 01:11:03,159
Pascal Siakam on someone else and kind of knowing maybe

1581
01:11:03,159 --> 01:11:06,720
some of their payroll realities moving forward. I don't have

1582
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:08,560
the answer, and I think that's why my concern level

1583
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:11,159
is high. Because I don't know they are capable of

1584
01:11:11,159 --> 01:11:12,640
doing many things from here. I want to make that

1585
01:11:12,680 --> 01:11:14,079
clear when you look at their assets, when you look

1586
01:11:14,079 --> 01:11:16,439
at how good some of their individual players are. But

1587
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,720
when like, we don't have this extended sample since Tyres

1588
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,800
Alburton's hamstring injury effectively of Tyre's Halburton being a player

1589
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:25,159
we all believe him to be, it just throws me

1590
01:11:25,239 --> 01:11:29,479
for such a whirl. And it's look, this underscores how

1591
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,159
good of a trade they made with Pascal Siakam though,

1592
01:11:32,279 --> 01:11:35,119
just because of how instrumental he has big to keeping

1593
01:11:35,119 --> 01:11:36,119
them afloat right now?

1594
01:11:36,239 --> 01:11:38,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, where are they without him? So my concern level

1595
01:11:38,399 --> 01:11:38,720
is an eight.

1596
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,319
Speaker 2: It's just like because I just don't think the ceiling

1597
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:45,479
is where we hope Slash thought Slash believed it might be.

1598
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:48,720
And to your point, like, what are you going to

1599
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:52,119
do to fit is a Miles Turner trade? Like I mean, look,

1600
01:11:52,159 --> 01:11:53,880
he's going to be a free agent, Like that's part

1601
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:56,279
of it, But like, do you just need someone that's

1602
01:11:56,720 --> 01:11:58,920
going to anchor a defense in a different way and

1603
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:01,439
control the boards and like all that kind of stuff.

1604
01:12:01,159 --> 01:12:04,239
Speaker 1: I would like? So I guess, but then who is

1605
01:12:04,319 --> 01:12:06,680
that I don't know, because now that you have Siakam,

1606
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:09,239
you don't want to lose the spacing element all the time.

1607
01:12:09,319 --> 01:12:11,720
At least I know their backup centers weren't four spacers,

1608
01:12:11,720 --> 01:12:13,720
but you want to lose that spacing. So it's a

1609
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,319
huge challenge. I mean, like Miles Turner can still be

1610
01:12:16,319 --> 01:12:18,279
a very like he can be an impactful guy around

1611
01:12:18,319 --> 01:12:19,960
the basket at the rim, like, he can be very good.

1612
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:23,039
But is he overstretched? Is this a decline we're watching?

1613
01:12:23,079 --> 01:12:25,119
Like it just the all over the placeness, there's a

1614
01:12:25,159 --> 01:12:27,399
there's some verbiage for you of him. Is a little

1615
01:12:27,399 --> 01:12:31,039
concerning Grant. Let's talk some Pelicans. I think it's probably

1616
01:12:31,079 --> 01:12:35,479
time to have a brutally honest conversation about Zion Williamson,

1617
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:38,560
their overall direction and where where they go from here?

1618
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:39,279
Would you agree?

1619
01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:42,119
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I've been I feel like I've had

1620
01:12:42,119 --> 01:12:45,159
a version of this once a year probably where but

1621
01:12:45,199 --> 01:12:47,720
this one feels different, I think in a kind of

1622
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:48,479
concerning way.

1623
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:48,760
Speaker 3: Right.

1624
01:12:49,279 --> 01:12:53,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Zion Williamson out indefinitely with a hamstring strain.

1625
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:55,960
The Pelicans have played Grant four hundred and one regular

1626
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:59,800
season games since drafting him. That's quite a bit Zion

1627
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:04,199
has appeared in one hundred and ninety of those games.

1628
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:07,159
Put another way, he's missed more than fifty percent of

1629
01:13:07,159 --> 01:13:08,960
the games he's eligible to play in, and that's not

1630
01:13:09,039 --> 01:13:12,560
including any play it or postseason contest, which he has

1631
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:17,000
not played in the actual postseason before. So that's that's

1632
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:19,239
sort of the red flag. And why is this injury

1633
01:13:19,319 --> 01:13:23,239
different to me? My whole thing is my view on

1634
01:13:23,359 --> 01:13:28,079
Zion is this. I think at his peak he is

1635
01:13:28,880 --> 01:13:30,880
top ten, top fifteen player in the league. I think

1636
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:35,159
he impacts the game to that extent. But we've gotten

1637
01:13:35,199 --> 01:13:38,560
to the point and maybe there were some missteps early

1638
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:40,840
on by both him and the Pelicans, the way he

1639
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,319
took care of his body, the latitude they gave him

1640
01:13:43,359 --> 01:13:45,279
to kind of work away from the team. You can

1641
01:13:45,319 --> 01:13:47,960
get into that. Everything we have heard schmid Duov in

1642
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:49,720
the no has been all over this. There's been Christian

1643
01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:52,439
Clark has written about this. Zion has done a much

1644
01:13:52,439 --> 01:13:54,359
better job over the past two years of taking care

1645
01:13:54,399 --> 01:13:56,479
of his body, if you want to say, getting more serious,

1646
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:00,000
and it's still just sort of betrayed him. And we've

1647
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,319
now been operating under this assumption that, well, you're eventually

1648
01:14:02,359 --> 01:14:04,760
going to get peak Zion for an entire year or

1649
01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:06,840
once you get to the playoffs, and that's just your

1650
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:11,600
ticket to contending for something special. Again. That's how highly

1651
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:14,319
I viewed the peak Zion experience. And I don't think

1652
01:14:14,359 --> 01:14:17,079
that this is all on him or I don't even

1653
01:14:17,079 --> 01:14:20,800
know how much to ascribe to him his previous injury issues. However,

1654
01:14:21,279 --> 01:14:23,119
like you, we're kind of at the point and some

1655
01:14:23,159 --> 01:14:26,000
people may have already been there where it's you do

1656
01:14:26,079 --> 01:14:30,439
have to ask can you continue to build your entire

1657
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:35,199
team around him? And then if the answers no, what

1658
01:14:35,319 --> 01:14:38,319
do you do? But also, whose fault is this just

1659
01:14:38,399 --> 01:14:41,840
sort of freak accidents that we're here, or is this,

1660
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:45,199
you know, on the Pelicans for not doing a better

1661
01:14:45,279 --> 01:14:49,239
job of actually optimizing Zion when they had him, because

1662
01:14:49,239 --> 01:14:52,760
they were constantly waiting on what seeing Could this dynamic

1663
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:56,079
between brandon Ingram or the rest of the roster just work?

1664
01:14:56,439 --> 01:15:00,359
And I think we should start there is do you

1665
01:15:00,520 --> 01:15:04,600
think they're at the point where they have to just

1666
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:07,079
face facts and say it's not a matter of necessarily

1667
01:15:07,239 --> 01:15:09,960
we need to trade Zion, but we can't count on

1668
01:15:10,039 --> 01:15:13,600
him to be our primary tempole moving forward.

1669
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:16,760
Speaker 2: I would say, coming into the last like three seasons

1670
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:19,279
prior to this one. That was kind of my take

1671
01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:22,520
was that one, I don't know that you I don't

1672
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:24,600
think that you can rely on him to stay healthy.

1673
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:27,119
And two, even if he does, he's such a weird,

1674
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:30,279
difficult player to build around that it just makes roster

1675
01:15:30,319 --> 01:15:33,279
construction tricky. It makes relying on him tricky because there's

1676
01:15:33,319 --> 01:15:35,199
sort of there's two versions of Zion.

1677
01:15:35,279 --> 01:15:37,079
Speaker 3: One is he's not available.

1678
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 2: And two is he can't shoot but needs the ball

1679
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:40,239
and is really good at that. But what do you

1680
01:15:40,319 --> 01:15:43,000
do on both ends to like support him best? And

1681
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:46,800
that's a hard question. I think we're probably there. I

1682
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,319
just like I would I would parse the data a

1683
01:15:49,359 --> 01:15:51,039
little thinner and say, yeah, he's played one hundred and

1684
01:15:51,119 --> 01:15:53,680
ninety games. I would make the case that like ninety

1685
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:57,119
of those were evidence that, oh, this is a guy

1686
01:15:57,159 --> 01:15:59,560
you build around. And talking about the sixty one games

1687
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,359
of his second year, when he averaged twenty seven and

1688
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:05,439
had shot sixty one percent from the field, then missed

1689
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:08,039
the entire subsequent season and gave us twenty nine more

1690
01:16:08,079 --> 01:16:10,840
games in twenty two to twenty three at twenty six

1691
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:13,640
points a game, shot just over sixty percent from the field.

1692
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 3: That's ninety total games. Those are both all star seasons.

1693
01:16:17,399 --> 01:16:20,319
Speaker 2: That's it before like his rookie year played twenty four,

1694
01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:23,800
was not at that level. Last year, even was as

1695
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:26,399
healthy as he's ever been seventy games, wasn't at that level.

1696
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,039
Averaged just under twenty three, not over sixty percent from

1697
01:16:30,079 --> 01:16:32,760
the field, And that's an insane bar, right sixty percent

1698
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:34,800
from the field. But if you don't shoot threes, then

1699
01:16:34,840 --> 01:16:36,720
you actually don't get to the line as much as

1700
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:38,399
like someone like him probably should.

1701
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 3: Still has high seven just under eight attempts a game.

1702
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:44,560
Speaker 2: That's good, But like if you're not at that level

1703
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:48,439
those ninety games I'm talking about for Zion, then like, yeah,

1704
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:50,920
you can't make that guy your be all end all

1705
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:53,439
like that, just it's not he's not available enough and

1706
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:56,319
he's not quite good enough. And throw the defense and

1707
01:16:56,399 --> 01:16:58,720
rebounding stuff in there too. We're just talking offense to

1708
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,319
this point. To make Kim the guy you you like

1709
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:04,920
can build around in a way that feels stable or

1710
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,159
you know, or feels like you can make a three

1711
01:17:07,199 --> 01:17:09,840
to five year plan, Like I don't. I just don't

1712
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:13,399
see how that works from like a decision making standpoint,

1713
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:15,760
And and like, look all the other injuries up and

1714
01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:18,399
down the roster just make it like, well, okay, well yeah,

1715
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:20,880
who knows, who knows what this would have looked like

1716
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:23,039
if he'd been healthy. But you know what I mean, Like,

1717
01:17:23,079 --> 01:17:25,439
I think it's just the two prong thing, the unavailability

1718
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:29,000
and the the uniqueness of his game is just that's

1719
01:17:29,039 --> 01:17:31,359
a hard That's always been the case, right, He's always

1720
01:17:31,399 --> 01:17:33,039
been a hard guy to build around. Now it just

1721
01:17:33,079 --> 01:17:34,560
maybe like we got to stop trying.

1722
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:36,640
Speaker 1: So I think that's where it will diverge, is because

1723
01:17:36,640 --> 01:17:38,560
I would agree they have to stop trying, because I

1724
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:40,880
think the unavailability, the turbulence of it all is like

1725
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,960
you need some zemblance, some stability there. But where I

1726
01:17:44,119 --> 01:17:48,279
keep coming back to is at what point like even

1727
01:17:48,319 --> 01:17:51,119
peak Zo, Like look at what he did last year

1728
01:17:51,159 --> 01:17:53,760
before he was injured in that playoff game. That was

1729
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:56,199
like Zion. That was peak Zion on defense too, because

1730
01:17:56,199 --> 01:17:58,239
I know you mentioned there are defensive concerns, but like

1731
01:17:58,520 --> 01:18:01,359
we had an extended stretch ever since the mid season

1732
01:18:01,439 --> 01:18:03,359
tournament which was not known as the Emirates Cup by

1733
01:18:03,359 --> 01:18:05,920
that point, like he was just locked in in a

1734
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:09,319
way that we hadn't seen before. But the team still

1735
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:12,279
wasn't built to optimize him. I'm not saying he was

1736
01:18:12,319 --> 01:18:14,640
thriving in spite of them, because they still gave him

1737
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:17,720
the keys of the offense. But you're talking about you

1738
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:20,159
mentioned that he's a very unique specific fit. I don't

1739
01:18:20,159 --> 01:18:22,439
disagree with you. But is that breaking news?

1740
01:18:23,439 --> 01:18:23,640
Speaker 3: No?

1741
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,800
Speaker 2: But I mean that's that's been that's been my concern,

1742
01:18:27,159 --> 01:18:29,560
like from the jump almost like it's not breaking news,

1743
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:32,560
but they nobody has. So maybe I'll put it to

1744
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:35,119
you this way. What and it's kind of rhetorical because

1745
01:18:35,119 --> 01:18:37,199
we've talked about it, but like what is the type

1746
01:18:37,239 --> 01:18:41,039
of team you put around Zion Williamson if if healthy?

1747
01:18:41,239 --> 01:18:44,319
Like what is it just five out shooters defenders?

1748
01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:47,720
Speaker 1: Yes? And they've never done that, which is just so

1749
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:50,439
like even there he played like look at the center

1750
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:53,800
position as sort of the barometer for this he's played

1751
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,640
with like of the most notable Like they've had Steven Adams,

1752
01:18:56,720 --> 01:19:00,640
they've had Yonis Valentjudis, and now they have like who

1753
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:02,800
the fuck ever? Like it's just yeah, we've seen like

1754
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:05,680
great moments from Mecie and then Daniel Tice's is on there.

1755
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:08,039
So this season they come into was that their idea

1756
01:19:08,079 --> 01:19:09,920
of like, well, now we're finally going to lean into

1757
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:13,960
this smaller, versatile style. But here's just heres where I diverge.

1758
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:15,960
And so this year there's a lot of noise caked in.

1759
01:19:16,279 --> 01:19:19,920
But ever since Zion was drafted grand they have ranked

1760
01:19:20,079 --> 01:19:22,600
better than twenty third in three point to tenth G

1761
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:26,079
eight only once that was in twenty nineteen twenty twenty,

1762
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:29,680
and so ever since then, like they've just hovered consistently,

1763
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:32,880
mostly in the bottom five, but really around the bottom seven.

1764
01:19:33,159 --> 01:19:36,039
And even when you get into personnel specific and let's

1765
01:19:36,039 --> 01:19:38,920
look at let's look at last year. So during the

1766
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:41,840
minutes that he played with CJ. McCullum and Trey Murphy,

1767
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:44,079
so just those two because those were clearly their two

1768
01:19:44,079 --> 01:19:46,760
best Jordan Hawkins didn't have a huge role. And when

1769
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:48,520
you're looking at three point volume, like those are the

1770
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:51,279
guys who could get it up. Those lineups with Zion

1771
01:19:51,319 --> 01:19:54,800
plus their two best shooters still ranked in the thirty

1772
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:58,039
second percent pile of three point volume. So you have

1773
01:19:58,399 --> 01:20:02,039
never assembled the type of team that is going to adequately.

1774
01:20:02,119 --> 01:20:04,039
Even if you think they're space in the floor, it's oh,

1775
01:20:04,079 --> 01:20:07,760
we have Larry Nance and Herb Jones is hitting his screens. Okay, awesome.

1776
01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:11,039
You have never once modeled your offense to a t

1777
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:14,800
like it was built to exist around Zion. And I

1778
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:17,840
don't know who this isn't? Is that? Is that Willy

1779
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:20,399
Green's fault? Is it David Griffin's fault? Is it Zion's

1780
01:20:20,399 --> 01:20:23,239
Body's fault? Because did the Pelicans feel like look even

1781
01:20:23,359 --> 01:20:26,880
during this season. Okay, they downsized, definitely felt more dynamic

1782
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:29,680
on offense, but they weren't necessarily built. I mean we're

1783
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:32,079
seeing it now like they weren't. I mean Trey Murphy

1784
01:20:32,119 --> 01:20:34,880
and CJ. McCollum with Jordan Hawkins, they weren't all available

1785
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:37,800
at once. But the three point volume has been just

1786
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:42,479
ridiculously low. Once again, you never built your team in

1787
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:45,600
the image like Zion was your ten pole, And I

1788
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:48,039
guess do you attribute that to because they felt like

1789
01:20:48,079 --> 01:20:50,279
they couldn't and so they were constantly trying to toe

1790
01:20:50,319 --> 01:20:52,640
the line of all right, we need to be at

1791
01:20:52,680 --> 01:20:55,039
a point where yes, Zion can be peakd Zion with

1792
01:20:55,119 --> 01:20:57,199
this group and will still be really good. We also

1793
01:20:57,279 --> 01:20:59,680
need to figure out a way to exist without him.

1794
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:02,840
I want to know your answer, but my pushback would be,

1795
01:21:03,319 --> 01:21:06,119
when have they done? They had that rollicking playoff series

1796
01:21:06,159 --> 01:21:08,840
against the Suns. Like, if you're going to go into

1797
01:21:09,359 --> 01:21:13,119
when was brandon Ingram just like this incredible central and

1798
01:21:13,159 --> 01:21:15,680
this I'm not insulting brandon Ingram here, it's just when

1799
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:17,640
did brandon Ingram ever look like, Okay, well, that's just

1800
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:20,199
someone who is going to run the show when Zion

1801
01:21:20,199 --> 01:21:22,800
missus is twenty to thirty games a year whatever, it

1802
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:25,279
might be more than that. So did you ever even

1803
01:21:25,359 --> 01:21:26,800
if they were trying to strat of the line, I

1804
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:29,199
guess is my question, did they even build a team

1805
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:34,239
that made sense conceptually to do that?

1806
01:21:34,239 --> 01:21:35,239
Speaker 3: That's really interesting.

1807
01:21:35,279 --> 01:21:38,600
Speaker 2: I think my first thought is, I wonder if and

1808
01:21:38,640 --> 01:21:41,920
you brought it up as one of the like possible explanations,

1809
01:21:43,319 --> 01:21:47,640
has the front office just decided like, let's we can't

1810
01:21:47,760 --> 01:21:50,920
we can't build around this guy. You know, we can't

1811
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:54,960
build this custom fitted, you know, bespoke kind of roster

1812
01:21:55,640 --> 01:21:59,520
for Zion that would he would need to be optimized, right, Like,

1813
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:01,359
we can't do it because we don't know if he's

1814
01:22:01,359 --> 01:22:03,119
gonna be there, So we have to sort of otherwise

1815
01:22:03,199 --> 01:22:05,960
kind of make make an effort to build like a

1816
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:09,520
quote unquote normal team. But then, like the pushback against

1817
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:12,319
that is like you sort of haven't because normal teams

1818
01:22:12,319 --> 01:22:14,319
shoot more threes and normally you know what I mean.

1819
01:22:14,359 --> 01:22:17,960
Like that, there's just they haven't really done either. They

1820
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:21,359
haven't clearly they absolutely have not put the you know,

1821
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:24,680
the theoretical best possible roster around him. I think Brandon

1822
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:27,000
Ingram is sort of like the representative of that, like, oh,

1823
01:22:27,359 --> 01:22:28,600
these two stars don't fit Toget.

1824
01:22:28,640 --> 01:22:30,399
Speaker 3: It's not just that Ingram isn't a good fit.

1825
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:32,439
Speaker 2: It's that it's really hard to find a good fit

1826
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:35,640
for Zion, Like everybody wants three and D players at

1827
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:38,520
the other four positions, so like that's part of it.

1828
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:43,359
But but I just, yeah, I can't argue with you,

1829
01:22:43,399 --> 01:22:45,680
they haven't built the right kind of team around him.

1830
01:22:46,199 --> 01:22:50,479
I'm hesitant to like really pile on though, because if

1831
01:22:50,479 --> 01:22:52,680
you look at Okay, he gave us twenty four games

1832
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:54,960
as a rookie, I think if you were gonna do it,

1833
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:56,640
if you were gonna if there was a moment where

1834
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:59,239
you were gonna build the optimal team around him, it

1835
01:22:59,239 --> 01:23:00,840
would have had to happen. And at some point in

1836
01:23:00,840 --> 01:23:03,439
his second year where he's showing you I'm the guy

1837
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:06,039
look at and they put the ball in his hands

1838
01:23:06,279 --> 01:23:08,880
like way more frequently in that during that second year,

1839
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:11,079
and that's when he really exploded and you could see

1840
01:23:11,079 --> 01:23:14,239
the vision of what a Zion Williamson centric team could

1841
01:23:14,279 --> 01:23:18,039
look like. And then he missed the entire next season.

1842
01:23:18,279 --> 01:23:20,600
So like there was a tiny window where I think

1843
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:24,720
the Pelicans would have been justified in having confidence that

1844
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:27,760
they could build around this guy and make the roster

1845
01:23:27,840 --> 01:23:30,880
decisions that were necessary to maximize him. And that window

1846
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:33,079
shut when he missed all of twenty one to twenty

1847
01:23:33,079 --> 01:23:35,600
two and then played twenty nine games the following year.

1848
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:39,000
And at that point, well, maybe you don't pay him

1849
01:23:39,039 --> 01:23:41,199
what they paid him, although they did get some incentives

1850
01:23:41,199 --> 01:23:43,760
into that contract or some well I don't know what

1851
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:47,439
you would call them, but like the weight clause and protections. Yeah,

1852
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:50,319
so I'm inclined to give New Orleans like a little

1853
01:23:50,439 --> 01:23:52,920
not a pass, but like I can understand why you

1854
01:23:53,039 --> 01:23:58,279
didn't go full bore, let's trade everything. We have to

1855
01:23:58,399 --> 01:24:03,439
surround him with space, defense, whatever, because like and and

1856
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:05,760
you know what, they might have been right, because here

1857
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:07,920
we are you know and I don't, and we're both

1858
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:09,680
saying you can't trust him as a guy to build

1859
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:11,960
around anymore. That said, you kind of wasted half a

1860
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,560
decade of your franchise by not trying it. But still,

1861
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:16,920
you know, that's not really an answer. That's just kind

1862
01:24:16,920 --> 01:24:19,800
of my my like trying to understand the Pelican side

1863
01:24:19,840 --> 01:24:22,399
of it, which may not be a popular position.

1864
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:25,399
Speaker 1: I guess I can't understand the Pelican side of it

1865
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:27,880
as well, because I do think you're right, like the

1866
01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:30,560
specificity of his fit and what you would need around

1867
01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:34,319
him to optimize him, coupled with okay, the injury history

1868
01:24:34,359 --> 01:24:36,680
and didn't make it difficult on them. But I just

1869
01:24:37,159 --> 01:24:39,840
looking at the theory of these teams, it feels like

1870
01:24:40,520 --> 01:24:43,600
a run of is half measures the word to like

1871
01:24:43,640 --> 01:24:45,840
even the Dejenttey Murray trade, which we both liked. I

1872
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:47,560
think that's someone that could have been involved in more

1873
01:24:47,560 --> 01:24:50,319
two man actions with Zion than necessarily a brandon Ingram

1874
01:24:50,359 --> 01:24:52,560
who credit to brandon Ingram is three point attempts for

1875
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:54,119
up this year, but we've been calling for for like

1876
01:24:54,159 --> 01:24:56,640
three or four years, and we've seen him put up

1877
01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:58,000
more threes in the past, which is why it was

1878
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:01,239
so infuriating. But like it was Jonte Murray, like it

1879
01:25:01,279 --> 01:25:03,520
was sub all star level. This team has been and

1880
01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:05,479
you could argue they've never been good or healthy enough

1881
01:25:05,479 --> 01:25:07,800
to say we we're just gonna go balls to the

1882
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:10,920
wall and cash in all our assets and go into

1883
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:14,600
the tax At the same time you need to, I

1884
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:17,039
guess I'm just going to see what their theory ever

1885
01:25:17,319 --> 01:25:20,640
was then, because it felt like, Okay, we're not willing

1886
01:25:20,680 --> 01:25:22,960
to go all in on this guy. Okay, fine, but

1887
01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:28,079
then you built teams plural that didn't make sense with

1888
01:25:28,239 --> 01:25:31,319
him is the number two, the number whatever you viewed him?

1889
01:25:31,319 --> 01:25:33,159
That didn't make sense as well. We're trying to be

1890
01:25:33,239 --> 01:25:37,000
good independent of Zion or with Zion as this star compliment.

1891
01:25:37,159 --> 01:25:39,119
And it does seem like they were trying to go

1892
01:25:39,199 --> 01:25:42,520
towards the ladder because it took a while on a

1893
01:25:42,520 --> 01:25:44,600
couple occasions for them to recommend like, oh, no, Zion

1894
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:46,840
needs the ball, that's when we're at our best, and

1895
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:49,760
the amount of times, the amount of that we discussed

1896
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:52,399
that that, well, why isn't until they got there just

1897
01:25:52,479 --> 01:25:54,800
leads me to believe that, Okay, they were trying to

1898
01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:57,359
do the kind of straddle of the two existences where

1899
01:25:57,359 --> 01:26:00,039
he's still the star, but they're just better. From a

1900
01:26:00,039 --> 01:26:02,920
acro perspective, and if that's the route you're gonna go,

1901
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:05,600
I'm not saying it's easy, but you're gonna need to

1902
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:08,399
point me to the move that made the most sense

1903
01:26:09,119 --> 01:26:11,520
in the in the image of that team that they

1904
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:12,199
were trying to build.

1905
01:26:12,199 --> 01:26:15,600
Speaker 2: Then it's it's basically I would point to two drafting

1906
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:18,560
Trey Murphy and drafting Jordan Hawkins, like there's there's two

1907
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:18,960
that like.

1908
01:26:19,039 --> 01:26:20,399
Speaker 3: Got it, that that works.

1909
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:23,680
Speaker 1: Here's my issue with that. Those two guys, barring injuries,

1910
01:26:23,680 --> 01:26:25,159
weren't gonna start that.

1911
01:26:25,279 --> 01:26:28,720
Speaker 2: Right because well, and that's because to build on like

1912
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:29,479
we like the.

1913
01:26:29,479 --> 01:26:32,159
Speaker 3: Murray trade, but like I don't know, like that's.

1914
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:34,399
Speaker 1: Not he's like the Murray trade. I want to be clear,

1915
01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:36,079
I thought it was a good value.

1916
01:26:36,279 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 3: McCollum is not a great fit. We've talked about Ingram's

1917
01:26:38,880 --> 01:26:41,079
not a great fit. Jonas Valencunas is just.

1918
01:26:41,039 --> 01:26:43,119
Speaker 2: Like in the way you know, like they they you

1919
01:26:43,319 --> 01:26:45,479
you're right, Like they have made moves that are almost

1920
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:48,199
like you would almost say like these are like the

1921
01:26:48,319 --> 01:26:51,119
opposite of trying to get the best version of this

1922
01:26:51,239 --> 01:26:53,840
Zion led team, you know, trying to find it right

1923
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:57,479
because like McCollum doesn't defend and he wants to shoot

1924
01:26:57,479 --> 01:26:59,239
off the dribble, great three point shoot or two, but

1925
01:26:59,359 --> 01:27:02,840
like that's just you just need more Trey Murphy types,

1926
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:05,399
I guess, or like Michale Bridges types, or just like

1927
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:07,359
the kind of player that everybody wants and they've got

1928
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:09,720
guys that are way far off of that, you know,

1929
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:10,920
prototype right.

1930
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I guess then it comes back to though, Okay,

1931
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:17,560
is it? So? I viewed through the lens of the

1932
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:21,520
big man situation specifically because are we taught? Were there

1933
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:23,840
only like three to five bigs that would have ever

1934
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:28,760
like it's Chris tops porzingis, it's Brook Lopez, It's not

1935
01:27:28,920 --> 01:27:31,079
this version of Miles Turner, but like the they were

1936
01:27:31,079 --> 01:27:32,600
trying to trade for him or and they were linked

1937
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:35,359
him for how many seasons? And then after that it's okay,

1938
01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:37,199
like they were never gonna get Chet Holme grid is. Yeah,

1939
01:27:37,239 --> 01:27:39,720
Chet Holmegrin works. But I also just kind of wonder, like,

1940
01:27:40,359 --> 01:27:42,079
could you've gone a route where like should they have

1941
01:27:42,079 --> 01:27:44,479
been a team that was really more in like seeing

1942
01:27:44,479 --> 01:27:46,600
what's up with Karl Anthony Towns? Okay, like the defense,

1943
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:49,359
but like that's someone who fits So were they not

1944
01:27:49,840 --> 01:27:52,000
did they not Branch out enough from this, because it

1945
01:27:52,039 --> 01:27:54,399
does feel like they were, because even I think you

1946
01:27:54,399 --> 01:27:56,319
could have gone with more of a vertical threat to

1947
01:27:56,359 --> 01:27:59,119
where it's that was never Valentunia's kind of groundbound. Steven

1948
01:27:59,159 --> 01:28:03,000
Adams very physical, but like a Jared Allen was the

1949
01:28:03,079 --> 01:28:04,439
name that I think. I don't even know if the

1950
01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:06,399
Pelicans were linked to them so much as their fans

1951
01:28:06,439 --> 01:28:08,239
and analysts were smart enough to mention him, but like

1952
01:28:08,279 --> 01:28:10,439
they never went that route to where it was let's

1953
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:12,079
get a more dynamic center. It was either going to

1954
01:28:12,119 --> 01:28:14,239
make quick decisions or he's just gonna be able. We

1955
01:28:14,239 --> 01:28:16,680
could run a bunch of inverted pick and rolls then,

1956
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:19,479
or not invitual big picking rolls. Excuse me, Yeah, so

1957
01:28:20,159 --> 01:28:23,520
I like I just the more I think about it is, Yes,

1958
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:27,760
this is Zion's availability as a problem, the uniqueness we'll

1959
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:29,119
call it, of a skill set, or the tough to

1960
01:28:29,159 --> 01:28:32,479
fit aspect of a skill set a problem. But I

1961
01:28:32,479 --> 01:28:35,079
honestly think it's a larger issue that when you go

1962
01:28:35,199 --> 01:28:37,359
back and look and even feeling in the moment when

1963
01:28:37,359 --> 01:28:39,920
we felt and everyone knows, I'm higher on the Pelicans

1964
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:42,439
than most Traditionally, you go back and you look and

1965
01:28:42,479 --> 01:28:46,680
it's well they never committed to like giving their team

1966
01:28:46,720 --> 01:28:49,920
around Zion. It's macro identity to even when it was

1967
01:28:49,960 --> 01:28:53,119
like all Zion, it wasn't necessarily optimized to be all Zion.

1968
01:28:53,199 --> 01:28:55,399
And then when it wasn't all Zion, it was never

1969
01:28:55,439 --> 01:28:59,840
maximized to be that either. And I just don't know how.

1970
01:29:00,079 --> 01:29:02,159
But I don't know. There's more than one party to

1971
01:29:02,159 --> 01:29:04,279
blame here. It's so complicated. But my question to you

1972
01:29:04,319 --> 01:29:07,800
now is Grant, we've recognized that you can't that he's

1973
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:10,399
not the guy like he because he can't beat Is

1974
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:12,880
he the guy at his peak and healthy? Maybe, but

1975
01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:14,359
he's never going to be at his peak and healthy

1976
01:29:14,399 --> 01:29:16,560
long enough. That is the That's not the assumption. That

1977
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:18,840
is just the facts that we know. Now. So you're

1978
01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:21,640
the Pelicans. Where do you go from here?

1979
01:29:22,720 --> 01:29:22,880
Speaker 2: Well?

1980
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:26,159
Speaker 3: I mean your options are you got two? Well three options? Uh?

1981
01:29:26,359 --> 01:29:29,319
Speaker 2: One trade Zion. I mean that's just like I don't

1982
01:29:29,359 --> 01:29:30,960
know what that looks like. I don't know what the

1983
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:33,239
market is, I don't know what the ass reasonable asking

1984
01:29:33,279 --> 01:29:36,159
price is. Two is you start trying to trade other

1985
01:29:36,199 --> 01:29:38,479
people like I guess you look at Ingram first. And

1986
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:40,960
that's since this contract status being what it is and

1987
01:29:41,079 --> 01:29:42,640
that's been part of the rumor mill forever.

1988
01:29:43,199 --> 01:29:45,520
Speaker 3: And I guess, like what three is?

1989
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:48,199
Speaker 2: You just wait and you hope that all these guys

1990
01:29:48,239 --> 01:29:50,479
come back, and you try to get a really good

1991
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:54,520
look at this specific team in let's say it takes

1992
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:57,159
six weeks for Zion to be back, and and that

1993
01:29:57,239 --> 01:29:59,479
kind of lines up. You know you'll have Murphy. Maybe

1994
01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:02,279
that that gives you a window before it's too late

1995
01:30:02,359 --> 01:30:05,239
in a difficult west to like, you know, be above

1996
01:30:05,279 --> 01:30:09,479
the play in Frey. A trade is fascinating and it's

1997
01:30:09,520 --> 01:30:12,039
really interesting to think about like all the other pieces

1998
01:30:12,039 --> 01:30:15,119
on this team with somebody else or a bunch of

1999
01:30:15,119 --> 01:30:19,199
picks and flexibility. I guess you gotta a massive salary

2000
01:30:19,199 --> 01:30:23,199
coming back to make the money match. Obviously, I kind

2001
01:30:23,199 --> 01:30:26,239
of I hate this, but like personally, I think I

2002
01:30:26,319 --> 01:30:28,560
waited out. I think I think you've got to just

2003
01:30:29,199 --> 01:30:32,279
you know the time, the ingram, you know clock is

2004
01:30:32,319 --> 01:30:35,680
ticking obviously because you risk losing him in free agency.

2005
01:30:36,239 --> 01:30:39,279
But I think you know you made some significant move

2006
01:30:39,359 --> 01:30:44,000
you bring Murray in, like you you you give Trey

2007
01:30:44,079 --> 01:30:46,600
Murphy the money you paid herb Jones last summer or

2008
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:48,800
too anyway like that we haven't even mentioned Herb Jones.

2009
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:51,239
I felt obliged to mention him injured.

2010
01:30:52,039 --> 01:30:53,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, just assume they're injured.

2011
01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:57,520
Speaker 2: Shoulder injury for Herb like of course, freak injury too.

2012
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:00,000
It's not just like the Zion, Oh you can't stay healthy.

2013
01:31:00,039 --> 01:31:04,079
It's like Gemsky dove on her Jones's shoulder. Well the

2014
01:31:04,159 --> 01:31:07,319
Albarado now injured do It's it's ridiculous.

2015
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:11,079
Speaker 3: I think, I wait, I think, I wait. And if we.

2016
01:31:11,079 --> 01:31:14,079
Speaker 2: Get through this season and it's the status quo, like

2017
01:31:14,159 --> 01:31:17,359
Zion's not healthy again, or it's clear the fit isn't there,

2018
01:31:18,159 --> 01:31:21,399
then maybe you start thinking drastically. Uh. It's just hard

2019
01:31:21,399 --> 01:31:24,479
for me to see trading Zion, which is an option

2020
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:29,159
I guess as like the cleanest way to go at

2021
01:31:29,199 --> 01:31:29,880
least right now.

2022
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:33,800
Speaker 1: I would say, you're I'm gonna explain to you why

2023
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:37,479
you're wrong. I'm just look, I would trade Zion just

2024
01:31:37,479 --> 01:31:38,960
because I don't know what the value would be. I mean,

2025
01:31:39,239 --> 01:31:41,520
it would be an interesting if you just said, to Milwaukee,

2026
01:31:41,800 --> 01:31:44,479
we'll give you Zion and the picks back that we control,

2027
01:31:44,560 --> 01:31:46,560
so top the top four of this year, so they

2028
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:48,560
could tank if they wanted to. And then I think

2029
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:52,079
they have to control over their next two would you

2030
01:31:52,119 --> 01:31:53,640
give us the honest if you honest like that? But

2031
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:55,840
I think the move needs to be like, this is

2032
01:31:55,880 --> 01:31:58,840
a gap year. This year is done. Prioritize drumming up

2033
01:31:58,840 --> 01:32:01,800
your lottery odds. And you have Zion mostly because his

2034
01:32:01,920 --> 01:32:04,319
value might be at its near or so complicated. You

2035
01:32:04,359 --> 01:32:07,560
have Trey Murphy, you have herb Jones. Everyone else is expendable.

2036
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:09,560
Get what you can for them so that you're not

2037
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:12,319
tempted to run this back together. Because look, this team

2038
01:32:12,359 --> 01:32:14,960
isn't gonna pay the tax. They are thirty million dollars

2039
01:32:15,039 --> 01:32:17,960
under the tax next year, committed to ten players. That's

2040
01:32:17,960 --> 01:32:22,079
not most notably including Brandon Ingram's next deal, and so

2041
01:32:22,119 --> 01:32:23,640
at the bare minimum. I think you move on from

2042
01:32:23,680 --> 01:32:25,880
him to get what you and I think brandon Ingram

2043
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:27,760
is a good player. I think he's done some adjusting

2044
01:32:27,800 --> 01:32:32,640
this year, but it's it's time to it's time to

2045
01:32:32,680 --> 01:32:35,039
be bad this year on purpose, give up on this year,

2046
01:32:35,079 --> 01:32:37,439
get rid of players, get what you can for them.

2047
01:32:37,439 --> 01:32:39,520
I'm not I know that we're not big sellers for

2048
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:41,840
sellers sake, but brandon Ingram is going into free agency,

2049
01:32:42,079 --> 01:32:43,880
so do you want to call his bluff? And is

2050
01:32:43,920 --> 01:32:45,800
he is he not going to get paid anything in

2051
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:48,000
free agency that would that would be quite the gamble.

2052
01:32:48,319 --> 01:32:50,279
And then you reevaluate over the offseason when you see

2053
01:32:50,279 --> 01:32:52,199
who you wind up with in the draft, and if

2054
01:32:52,239 --> 01:32:55,119
you're serious about Zion being the one, the two, the three,

2055
01:32:55,439 --> 01:32:57,439
then you got to consider actually moving that pick for

2056
01:32:57,520 --> 01:33:00,399
someone who makes a zemblance of sense with whatever version

2057
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:03,680
team that you're whatever team you're trying to build right now.

2058
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:06,520
And so I think this year needs to be about that,

2059
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:10,960
and then they can go through the Zion existential crisis

2060
01:33:10,960 --> 01:33:12,560
of it all a little bit more over over the

2061
01:33:12,600 --> 01:33:13,079
off season.

2062
01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:18,159
Speaker 2: I think that's right, and I would just acknowledge how

2063
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:23,319
bizarre slash concerning it is that we're we're looking at

2064
01:33:23,319 --> 01:33:25,960
twenty five, twenty six, that's when we're gonna really that'll

2065
01:33:25,960 --> 01:33:28,680
be zion seventh year in the NBA, like as we're

2066
01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:31,439
just trying to get started with the right team around him.

2067
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:33,920
If you hang like that's like we're I mean, that's

2068
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:36,520
the better part of a decade at that point that

2069
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:38,600
the Pelicans will have been trying and failing to like

2070
01:33:38,720 --> 01:33:41,279
figure it out, which is yeah, I mean, if if

2071
01:33:41,319 --> 01:33:43,199
you've if you struggled for that long, it's hard to

2072
01:33:43,199 --> 01:33:46,159
be optimistic. You're gonna solve it, you know, in the

2073
01:33:46,199 --> 01:33:48,720
last three years of the decade. That's gonna do it.

2074
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:51,319
For this episode, I hope it wasn't too bleak. Thanks

2075
01:33:51,319 --> 01:33:53,760
everybody for listening, for watching. If you're checking us out

2076
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:55,479
on YouTube, If you are checking us out on YouTube,

2077
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:58,560
make sure you're subscribed, that you've you've thumbs up all

2078
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:01,159
of our content, that you're leaving calm. That really helps

2079
01:34:01,159 --> 01:34:05,239
the algorithm. Like us back and wherever you're listening to this,

2080
01:34:05,279 --> 01:34:08,039
make sure you're raiding ragoon, subscribing five stars, telling friends,

2081
01:34:08,079 --> 01:34:11,439
telling enemies, all that good stuff. Join our discord links

2082
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:13,000
for that and YouTube and podcast description.

2083
01:34:13,479 --> 01:34:14,119
Speaker 3: It's going to do it.

2084
01:34:14,199 --> 01:34:16,680
Speaker 2: We'll be back with you again recording later this week

2085
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:19,560
to go upportably after that, Wells has

2086
01:34:19,560 --> 01:34:21,760
Speaker 3: Always shouts Frank nel keenan apologies, carry down