Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan Ray on Belgium Baby Boston
Speaker 1: News Radio.
Speaker 2: Well, last night we talked about the Conclave, which was
Speaker 2: still in session, and today the conclave spoke with us
Speaker 2: from last night, and I really appreciate him coming back
Speaker 2: tonight just for a brief conversation, Professor Thomas Groom. Professor Groom,
Speaker 2: I'm sure you did more than a few interviews today.
Speaker 2: So I don't know what what what the number is
Speaker 2: so far, but I hope with the last one.
Speaker 3: I probably got about it. We've probably got about a
Speaker 3: dozen done Dan. So if I don't make him in
Speaker 3: a good sense, or if I'm bump up on it
Speaker 3: somehow put off, but okay, So it was a great day.
Speaker 3: It was a great day and a very surprising day.
Speaker 3: You know, it's it's it wasnton while we were expecting
Speaker 3: Dan and Wasson, while we were predicting, and yet it
Speaker 3: seems it's in some ways it seems like a no
Speaker 3: brainer at this stage. And you know, he made all
Speaker 3: the right in his opening speech. You know, he did
Speaker 3: all the things we would want a new pope to
Speaker 3: do out without in parts of dialogue and bridge building.
Speaker 3: You know that he wants the church to be a
Speaker 3: synodol church. In other words, as you were cautious to
Speaker 3: redefine that last night, I mean the church that works together,
Speaker 3: that works well together. Uh, you know, there'd be a
Speaker 3: missionary church going out into the world rather than hiding
Speaker 3: hiding behind the wall of the churches. And it was
Speaker 3: interesting too his language pattern kept referring to women and men.
Speaker 3: Now that'd be sound like a very small point, but
Speaker 3: most people who are committed to the introdusivity to men
Speaker 3: and women, men and women. But he said women and men,
Speaker 3: and lots of young by students, for example, would put there.
Speaker 3: That would be their language pattern, in other words, affirming
Speaker 3: that the dignity of women and trying to re establish
Speaker 3: it in the pattern of the language. That was interesting.
Speaker 3: One of the funnest things that I found out about
Speaker 3: him then is that he's a trombone player, a very
Speaker 3: accomplished trombone jazz player. Can you believe it? The anchors
Speaker 3: he anchored festivals. He anchored trombone jazz festivals in Chicago
Speaker 3: when he lived there in the seventies and eighties, And
Speaker 3: he used to play under the pseudonym of Bobby Proud,
Speaker 3: which of course is Robert Prevost, But he was famous
Speaker 3: in the Chicago music scene as a trombone player, and
Speaker 3: in fact, he has brought a trombone with him to
Speaker 3: the Vatican. Now there's a new moment for the church.
Speaker 3: I mean, someone said very endearing.
Speaker 2: Someone said today that he grew up in the South Side,
Speaker 2: but nonetheless he was a Cubs fan, which I thought
Speaker 2: was interesting. So here's my question, and I know you'll
Speaker 2: give me an honest answer. You're a young man, young
Speaker 2: in spirit and young in many ways. Did you ever
Speaker 2: think that in your lifetime you would see an American
Speaker 2: the pulp of the Roman.
Speaker 3: Catholic No, no, no, we never thought. Only because you know, America,
Speaker 3: we can't take over the world, you know, President our
Speaker 3: president wants to take it over politically. Well, we can't
Speaker 3: take it over religiously. And and we yeah, well I
Speaker 3: always thought that. I never thought I would see the day.
Speaker 3: And in some ways, you know, he's he's not He's American.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Barnard raised in Chicago but spent a lot of his
Speaker 3: life in Peru and is a Peruvian. Uh is a
Speaker 3: Pruvian citizen. So it's not quite like somebody just if
Speaker 3: they had elected you know, the current archbishop or the
Speaker 3: Krolinis Bishop of Chicago, who would have been a fine candidate,
Speaker 3: by the way, that would be different. But this is
Speaker 3: a little this is a little more nuanced than simply saying, well,
Speaker 3: he's American, he's American, he's American. Well he is, but
Speaker 3: he's he's more than an international person at this point.
Speaker 2: He also started.
Speaker 3: Out he started out in Chicago the way I started
Speaker 3: out in Ireland. But yeah, you know, now here fifty
Speaker 3: years so I think of myself as an American, but.
Speaker 2: He he also walked this very different path. Normally, the popes,
Speaker 2: at least that I'm familiar with in my lifetime, whether
Speaker 2: I think of you know, John Paul two, who was
Speaker 2: Polish through and through, uh, you know, fought the Nazis, uh,
Speaker 2: fought the Communists, Uh, the the Archbishop Cardinal of Krakow. Uh.
Speaker 2: He you knew where he was from, and obviously he
Speaker 2: was a giant internationally because of the forces that he
Speaker 2: had to do battle with. But the most recent pope,
Speaker 2: Pope Francis, we knew where where he had come from.
Speaker 2: He had dealt as a native, his family had come
Speaker 2: from Italy, but he was still you know, American. Uh,
Speaker 2: this is very much of a hybrid.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, maybe maybe an Internet maybe an international person,
Speaker 3: you know, Uh that that's it's kind of a citizen
Speaker 3: of the world. And of course his Augustinian Order is
Speaker 3: worldwide and he was the he was the the Father
Speaker 3: General of the Sinians for two different stints in office.
Speaker 2: I know you were rooting for another Jesuit, but I
Speaker 2: wonder if if well.
Speaker 3: And the other thing I was rooting for, I wish
Speaker 3: he'd come to VC rather going to Villanova.
Speaker 2: Then well, I guess that too. I just that too.
Speaker 3: But then you know, there wasn't Maybe one of the
Speaker 3: most symbolic things about it was the name he chose.
Speaker 3: And I just want to take a minute on this
Speaker 3: Leo the fourteenth, because Leo the thirteenth was the great
Speaker 3: social justice bishop or cargo Bishop and pope. Back in
Speaker 3: eighteen ninety one he issued this amazing in Physical Realum
Speaker 3: Novarum where he basically called the church to social justice,
Speaker 3: not just the compassion, but to social justice. That it
Speaker 3: is not enough to simply feed hungry people. We have
Speaker 3: to ask, well, why are they hungry in the first place?
Speaker 3: What are the social political structures that are causing the hunger,
Speaker 3: the deprivation of the injustice or the sexism, or whatever
Speaker 3: the injustice might be, that it has to be addressed
Speaker 3: structurally and socially as well as one on one. And
Speaker 3: Leo's the thirteenth grade and cyclical was the reream navarum
Speaker 3: that established in many ways, and then the Catholic social
Speaker 3: teachings flow on from there. But it's interesting that bishop
Speaker 3: that the current the new pope took the title of Leo,
Speaker 3: and he'd be Leo the fourteenth But it was a
Speaker 3: real signal that he intends to make social justice and
Speaker 3: concern for the world and for the poor and the
Speaker 3: downtroden of the margin life, that he wants that to
Speaker 3: be a central aspect of his pontificate.
Speaker 2: You know what struck me today, and you're probably going
Speaker 2: to laugh at me when I tell you this, but
Speaker 2: when the curtain opened and we knew who it was,
Speaker 2: or at least we knew his name when he walked out,
Speaker 2: he seemed to exude a calmness and a kindness in
Speaker 2: his just his expression. Now I don't know, you know
Speaker 2: if I'm imagining that, but I just he seemed to
Speaker 2: me to be a person at peace with himself and
Speaker 2: at peace with his destiny.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was that's a very fine observation, Dan, I
Speaker 3: think you're spot on. I think I hadn't thought of
Speaker 3: it that way. But yes, his whole demeanor and his
Speaker 3: whole way of handling it was just very reassuring that
Speaker 3: this is not a pompous type of person at all.
Speaker 3: He's somebody called by God now to render an extraordinary
Speaker 3: service within human history, and he deserves our prayers, and
Speaker 3: these are our prayers. But I think he will embrace
Speaker 3: that that that task, that location, and in admirable ways
Speaker 3: and in ways it will be tremendously life giving, not
Speaker 3: only for Catholic faith in the Catholic community, but for
Speaker 3: the life of the world.
Speaker 2: Last question, Professor, and this probably is the toughest one.
Speaker 2: The last quarter of a century has been a very
Speaker 2: difficult time for the Roman Catholic Church in America for
Speaker 2: the obvious reasons. What will contificate of this now sixty
Speaker 2: nine year old pope who turned seventy in September. What
Speaker 2: could this mean and what do you think it will
Speaker 2: mean for the Catholic Church in America.
Speaker 3: I'd love to think that it will spark a revival
Speaker 3: Catholic faith, and that even Catholics that have given up
Speaker 3: on the institution on the church. Obviously, lots of my
Speaker 3: friends and students and so on will tell me that
Speaker 3: giving up with the church. But I would say that
Speaker 3: even if you give up with the church, don't give
Speaker 3: up on your faith. Hold on to your faith. We
Speaker 3: all need a transcendent horizon into which to live our lives.
Speaker 3: And in Christian faith, we believe that it's a God
Speaker 3: who is love and who was in love with us,
Speaker 3: and who graces us all along the way. So it
Speaker 3: can be a tremendously humanizing way to live one's life.
Speaker 3: And I hope I can imagine a pope like this
Speaker 3: leading us into that kind of realization, enabling people to
Speaker 3: embrace lives of faith, even if they don't show up
Speaker 3: with a local parish with her weekly envelope.
Speaker 2: I remember standing on Boston Common, or actually on the
Speaker 2: on top of the even Marsh Building, broadcasting the Mass
Speaker 2: that Pope John Paul the Second said in October of
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine on the Boston Common, and at that
Speaker 2: time thinking to myself, what would the sisters of charity
Speaker 2: think that I could stand here and maybe twenty five
Speaker 2: or so years previously, I was a less than that.
Speaker 2: Twenty years previously, I was at Saintian School in Reidville.
Speaker 2: They never could have imagined this now, I think those
Speaker 2: never could have imagined probably the fourteenth. Oh what a day.
Speaker 3: But the seeds say so, and people like yourself continue
Speaker 3: to bear fruit. And I mean that's an old gospel image,
Speaker 3: and even small seeds, according to Jesus, can grow into
Speaker 3: a big tree. I think that's what you've done well.
Speaker 2: I mean I am as imperfect a Catholic as you
Speaker 2: could find, but I keep trying, trying to do better.
Speaker 2: Let's put it like that, Professor Groom, it's been a
Speaker 2: long day, a long few days for you. Get some rest.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you'd be sought after again tomorrow. But thank
Speaker 2: you for your time.
Speaker 3: Last night I returned to obscurity. Thank you, Take care,
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: So much, Professor Thomas Groom of a Boston College. When
Speaker 2: we get back, we're going to talk with Professor Mary
Speaker 2: and Glendon. She wrote a book. She was the US
Speaker 2: Ambassador to the Vatican under the presidence of three Popes.
Speaker 2: Her book is The Quote of Three Popes. She's a
Speaker 2: Harvard law School professor, and she was US Ambassador of
Speaker 2: the Vatican. After Ray, Flann, we'll talk with Mary and Glendon,
Speaker 2: and if you'd like to join the conversation. I knew
Speaker 2: that Professor Groom was somewhat limited in his time tonight
Speaker 2: after having been as generous with this time last night,
Speaker 2: So feel free let's light these phone lines up. What
Speaker 2: did you think today? I mean, this is a stunning day.
Speaker 2: There too many popes, too many times, those of us
Speaker 2: who are Catholic or not Catholic, it doesn't matter. Watch
Speaker 2: this ceremony with the white smoke and all of that.
Speaker 2: I'd like we're going to talk about this for a while.
Speaker 2: I sure hope you're going to participate. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
Speaker 2: ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty
Speaker 2: those of the phone lines. We'll talk with Professor Mary
Speaker 2: and Glendon, former US Ambassador to the Holy See to
Speaker 2: the Vatican. Right after these messages, you're.
Speaker 1: On Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm w b Z,
Speaker 1: Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: We had joined delighted to be joined by Professor Mary
Speaker 2: and Glendon of Harvard Law School. She has spent a
Speaker 2: lot of time in Rome. She was the US ambassador
Speaker 2: to the Vatican actually served under the under three popes
Speaker 2: John Paul, the Second, Benedict and Pope Francis. Welcome, Professor Glendon,
Speaker 2: how are you tonight.
Speaker 4: I'm great. Thank you for having me on your program.
Speaker 2: You were very welcome. You've been with us before. The book.
Speaker 2: It's the court of three popes. You know the inside
Speaker 2: and the outside workings of the Vatican and the Holy
Speaker 2: See and all of that, and you know the inside
Speaker 2: of the outside workings of the Catholic Church of America.
Speaker 2: I asked Tom Groom the same question. I'm going to
Speaker 2: ask you the same question. Did you ever think that
Speaker 2: in your lifetime you would see an American pope walk
Speaker 2: out an American car to walk out as an American
Speaker 2: pope after the white smoke had shown at the Vatican.
Speaker 4: No, I certainly never did expect to see an American pope.
Speaker 4: But if you define American the way John Paul taught
Speaker 4: us to do. He wanted us to think of America
Speaker 4: as going from Hudson's May to Tierra del Fuego. And
Speaker 4: if you think about it that way, the new Pope
Speaker 4: is an American in the most capacious sense. He was
Speaker 4: born in Chicago, grew up in Chicago, spent much of
Speaker 4: his life in Peru, where he has dual citizenship with
Speaker 4: the US and Peru, and had a long stint in
Speaker 4: Rome where he was head of the Congregation of Bishops,
Speaker 4: where a lot of these new bishops who became cardinals
Speaker 4: and elected Pray Boast. He's probably the only guy they
Speaker 4: knew in the Vatican. So you know, with hindsight, it
Speaker 4: all sort of fits together.
Speaker 2: No, in retrospect, I see that, but as prospective I
Speaker 2: didn't remember his name being mentioned on any of the shortlists,
Speaker 2: at least that's the ones I saw.
Speaker 4: Well, my son in law predicted it. Thomas Williams is
Speaker 4: the Rome bureau chief, or was the Rome bureau chief
Speaker 4: for the break Bart news agency, and he said, watch
Speaker 4: Prevost And I said.
Speaker 5: Nah, what.
Speaker 4: But for the reasons I just said, I think he
Speaker 4: saw that before I did. It's a logical choice. And
Speaker 4: also it's when you think that the great majority of
Speaker 4: the cardinal electors are from the global South, and no
Speaker 4: doubt are looking for somebody who has a heart for
Speaker 4: the poor, the way Francis had a heart for the poor.
Speaker 4: It makes sense that they would be drawn to somebody
Speaker 4: who looks very much like a successor to Francis at
Speaker 4: this point. He's a member of a religious order, as
Speaker 4: Francis was, different order. He has a strong connection to
Speaker 4: Latin America and the name he chose that it was
Speaker 4: very significant Pope Leo the fourteenth, He certainly had in
Speaker 4: mind Leo the thirteenth, who was the first to articulate
Speaker 4: what we now know is the Catholic social teachings.
Speaker 2: What sort of an impact, I asked Tom groomed this
Speaker 2: last hour, Professor groom from this last same half hour,
Speaker 2: actually last twenty five years has been tough for the
Speaker 2: Catholic Church. Churches have closed, parishes have consolidated, priests have left.
Speaker 2: More priests have left than have joined. What is it
Speaker 2: possible that this American pope could revitalize the Catholic Church
Speaker 2: in America? Obviously his pontificate covers more than the United
Speaker 2: States of America. We understand that, and there are parts
Speaker 2: of the world where Catholicism is burgeoning right now, Africa
Speaker 2: and Asia. But in America it's not in large part
Speaker 2: because of everything that the Church has gone through here,
Speaker 2: and many of it problems brought on themselves, not only
Speaker 2: by unfaithful priests, but also religious leaders who failed to
Speaker 2: take control of the situation. Could this make a huge difference,
Speaker 2: that's my sense. I hope you're going to say yes,
Speaker 2: but I'd be interested. Give me your honest feeling.
Speaker 4: Well, we all like to see the church in America revitalized.
Speaker 4: And I was watching crowds in Chicago. How I mean,
Speaker 4: my goodness, you would think the White Sox are going
Speaker 4: the pennant.
Speaker 2: Let's not go that far. Now, let's not call that far, professor.
Speaker 2: So they're they're like ten and twenty oh, ten and
Speaker 2: twenty five, go ahead, a moment over kidding.
Speaker 4: They were so excited, and that was really heartwarming to see.
Speaker 4: On your question, It's what makes it hard to answer
Speaker 4: is that I think for many people it is possible
Speaker 4: that it will be exciting to have a pope who's
Speaker 4: very much in the vein of Pope Francis, but with
Speaker 4: a stroke on connection to the United States. I think
Speaker 4: that could have some real results, and I think in
Speaker 4: another way, it might revitalize the church in the United States.
Speaker 4: And thinking about it a little differently, when I grew
Speaker 4: up in Western mass Dan, the popes were sort of
Speaker 4: remote features that didn't have creatures who didn't have very
Speaker 4: much to do with ordinary life in Berkshire County. And
Speaker 4: you know, I think over time and over the past
Speaker 4: few years, I do think American Catholicism you do see
Speaker 4: a lot of rebirth and excitement in places like these
Speaker 4: Catholic schools that are growing up that are so vibrant
Speaker 4: around Boston. We see Saint Benedict's, for example. And it
Speaker 4: may be that there will be two kinds of revitalization.
Speaker 4: Part the excitement about having a pope born in the
Speaker 4: United in the States, and the other a sense that, uh,
Speaker 4: the church, after all is the people of God and
Speaker 4: they're right here, and the American Church has great potential
Speaker 4: to be more vibrant than it is now.
Speaker 2: Well, it's going to be a very interesting period for
Speaker 2: the church. I mentioned this to uh Professor Groom as well.
Speaker 2: I watched him come out on the balcony today to
Speaker 2: greet the crowd, and he seemed to have a a serenity.
Speaker 2: Obviously he was not he met the moment, I thought,
Speaker 2: and I thought that that as I looked at him,
Speaker 2: I felt that that people would will connect with him.
Speaker 2: I don't know how to bet, how to describe it
Speaker 2: any other than that. He just seemed to handle it
Speaker 2: with with a lot of grace and dignity, and he
Speaker 2: he pulled it off. And I watched the response of
Speaker 2: people and young people in that crowd in Saint Peter's
Speaker 2: in the piazza, and there were a lot of young
Speaker 2: people who were thrilled to be part of that. So
Speaker 2: maybe it is a bit of a renaissance for the
Speaker 2: Catholic Church in America. We'll have to see.
Speaker 4: We can always hope, So no.
Speaker 2: No question about it. When you were over there, you
Speaker 2: got to meet three of the popes at various times.
Speaker 2: Who would this pope, in your opinion, be closest to
Speaker 2: You knew three popes and probably other popes than that,
Speaker 2: but you knew John Paul the second, you knew Pope Benedict,
Speaker 2: and you knew Pope Francis.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he is very much like a successor
Speaker 4: to Francis. And I think I mean he's going to
Speaker 4: feel close to Francis in another way because that you
Speaker 4: have to pray for him when he wakes up tomorrow morning.
Speaker 4: He may have been in surre seren when he came
Speaker 4: out on the balcony, but when he wakes up tomorrow morning.
Speaker 4: He's got two big sets of challenges that Francis, to
Speaker 4: his credit, worked hard on and was barely able to
Speaker 4: make a dent in. And one is, as it's increasingly
Speaker 4: coming out in the press, is that the Vatican is
Speaker 4: in severe financial distress. It has a huge deficit, it
Speaker 4: has no realistic plans for fixing it. And just in November,
Speaker 4: Pope Francis announced that the pension fund for Vatican employees
Speaker 4: is in trouble and will not be able to meet
Speaker 4: its obligations to its retired votes within what he said
Speaker 4: is the medium term, which everybody thinks means within the
Speaker 4: next ten years. So Pope Leo the fourteenth has a
Speaker 4: big financial headache. I mean, there just has to be
Speaker 4: I hope the cardinals talked about this when they were
Speaker 4: in conclave. There has to be something done because things
Speaker 4: are going downhill fast. And the other big challenge, and
Speaker 4: again Francis worked on this, but it's what I would
Speaker 4: call the Vatican deep state. There is a bureaucracy over
Speaker 4: there in its own culture, and even a pope, Pope
Speaker 4: Francis even at times felt defeated by it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what's called the Curia. If I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 2: that's what's called the Curia, right, No problem, okay, Professor Glendon,
Speaker 2: Mary and Glendon. The book has a lot of relevance
Speaker 2: the Court of Three Popes. I'm sure that is still
Speaker 2: available through Amazon and places like that. I appreciate you
Speaker 2: taking the time to chat with us tonight. I always
Speaker 2: enjoy talking with you. Your experience is amazing, and their
Speaker 2: experience both as a lawyer, as a professor, and as
Speaker 2: a diplomat. Thank you so much for your time tonight.
Speaker 4: It's my pleasure, Dan, Thank you.
Speaker 2: All right, we're going to take a quick break here.
Speaker 2: It is nine thirty four, so we are a little
Speaker 2: bit late for the news at the bottom of the hour.
Speaker 2: That's okay. Now it is up to you. I want
Speaker 2: to know your thoughts. What did you think when you
Speaker 2: heard the news today? Where were you? It came out
Speaker 2: of the blue. I was watching one of the midday
Speaker 2: newscasts and they actually broke into the CBS news, breaking
Speaker 2: into channel four. Uh, and the network just took it
Speaker 2: over and told us that the white smoke had appeared
Speaker 2: and that a new pope had been chosen. And that's
Speaker 2: been my day since twelve oh eight. I suspect it's
Speaker 2: probably been a lot of your day six one, seven, two, five, four,
Speaker 2: ten thirty six one seven, nine, three, one, ten thirty.
Speaker 2: If you're a Catholic, you can celebrate. If you're a
Speaker 2: non Catholic, you can tell us exactly what you think.
Speaker 2: And if you're a falling away Catholic, does this inspire
Speaker 2: you to give the church a second look, particularly now
Speaker 2: that we have the first American pope in history, in history.
Speaker 2: But back on Nightside, light the lines up. Let's hear
Speaker 2: from you. Back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1: If you're on night Side with Dan Ray on w
Speaker 1: b Z, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: All right, well, my lines are quiet. That's not good.
Speaker 2: That's not good. If you happen to be someone who
Speaker 2: is a practicing Catholic, I assume that tonight you welcome this,
Speaker 2: particularly in view of the fact that there is a
Speaker 2: an American who now is the head of the church
Speaker 2: to which you belong. If you're falling away Catholic, and
Speaker 2: again I'm not going to talk religion per se, but
Speaker 2: I'd love to know, does this make a difference to you?
Speaker 2: Is this the sort of a decision made by the
Speaker 2: higher ups of the Catholic Church, the College of cars
Speaker 2: that might induce you to, after having been away, give
Speaker 2: the church a try. If you're a young person. This
Speaker 2: pope is sixty nine years of age, which, obviously, as
Speaker 2: I refer to it as the wrong side of fifty,
Speaker 2: he is a young person in terms of the age
Speaker 2: of a pope. It's conceivable, very conceivable that he would
Speaker 2: be a pope for at least ten, maybe fifteen. Who knows,
Speaker 2: potentially even longer twenty years. I mean, people are living
Speaker 2: longer these days. Does it make a difference. I think
Speaker 2: that as somebody who just looks at it from a
Speaker 2: decision point of view, that the College of Cardinals they
Speaker 2: believe that they're guided by They will tell you the
Speaker 2: Holy Spirit. And again, you don't have to be a
Speaker 2: Catholic to believe that, by the way, and don't even
Speaker 2: have to believe it if you are Catholic. But they
Speaker 2: met for a little over twenty four hours, and this
Speaker 2: is the decision they came to. There were a variety
Speaker 2: of other options that they could have chosen, and many
Speaker 2: of them would have been perfectly acceptable. I'm surprised, I
Speaker 2: must tell you that I never thought that I would
Speaker 2: see an American pope in my lifetime. I was joking
Speaker 2: with Professor Tom Groom last night that Timothy Dolan of
Speaker 2: New York, and most of you probably don't know who
Speaker 2: a lot of these folks are, but Dolan is the
Speaker 2: Cardinal of New York and he's a very garrulous, fun guy.
Speaker 2: If you can talk about cardinal as being a fun guy.
Speaker 2: I see him on television all the time. He hosts
Speaker 2: the presidential debate, the dinner every year, the Al Smith,
Speaker 2: not every year, every fourth year, the Al Smith dinner,
Speaker 2: the one that President Trump attended, and the dinner that
Speaker 2: Vice President Harris chose not to attend. So I'm interested.
Speaker 2: I'm also interested in the perspective of non Catholics and
Speaker 2: atheists and agnostics as to how this plays. And the
Speaker 2: reason I say that, and I'm challenging you at this
Speaker 2: point is I was very surprised and gratified, to be
Speaker 2: honest with you, at the amount of coverage this whole
Speaker 2: period of the last few weeks has received. From the
Speaker 2: time that people came to understand that Pope Francis was
Speaker 2: not only not healthy, but he was seriously ill, and
Speaker 2: even when he did get out of the hospital after
Speaker 2: his two months day, your sense was that his days
Speaker 2: were numbered, And of course he died the morning after Easter,
Speaker 2: which within the Catholic churches and within Christianity is incredibly symbolic.
Speaker 2: So then they had the Conclave, and those of you
Speaker 2: who have seen the movie Conclave, and I watched it,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna guess six months ago or three or four
Speaker 2: months ago, and I thought it was pretty good, and
Speaker 2: it certainly had the scenery down. I'm assuming, and I
Speaker 2: don't know this, by the way, I'm assuming that they
Speaker 2: were given permission to suit to shoot some of it
Speaker 2: on the on the property of the Vatican. It's this
Speaker 2: this city, state or country. It's the smallest country in
Speaker 2: the world, but it is a country nonetheless. Uh. And
Speaker 2: it's to me, I just I'm fascinated by this because
Speaker 2: even though it's really it's a religion, which clearly it is,
Speaker 2: there are political overtones. I mean, you talk about this
Speaker 2: pope or that pope. Were they more conservative, were they progressive?
Speaker 2: Were they liberal? Social justice? Many of the issues that
Speaker 2: Francis Pope Francis would talk about were based in politics
Speaker 2: as well as theology. Certainly in our lifetime, the Pope
Speaker 2: from Poland, Pope John Paul the Second was an extraordinarily
Speaker 2: political a person because of where he lived. In Poland,
Speaker 2: he had to deal with the Nazi occupation before and
Speaker 2: during World War two, the invasion of his country. He
Speaker 2: was a young man at the time. And then once
Speaker 2: the war ended and the Nazis were defeated, the Russians
Speaker 2: came in and they took over, and life under Hitler
Speaker 2: and Stalin was oppressive in both instances, in both in
Speaker 2: both places, in both both time periods, and yet he
Speaker 2: was able to walk that balance. So so this, this is,
Speaker 2: this is I think it's historic us. It's it's to me.
Speaker 2: It's a huge story. I hope some of you can
Speaker 2: can understand what I'm saying, and I hope some of you,
Speaker 2: more of you will join me. I'd like to. I
Speaker 2: would love to talk about this for a while, because
Speaker 2: I think it is something that if we don't talk
Speaker 2: about it, we're missing a very important story. This has
Speaker 2: an important it's an important story to people in Ukraine
Speaker 2: today who are waking up now on Friday morning and
Speaker 2: dealing with the fact that there now is an American
Speaker 2: who's the pope again. I don't want to overpoliticize it,
Speaker 2: but I don't want to underpoliticize it. Six one, seven, two, five,
Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven nine three one ten thirty.
Speaker 2: If this was irrelevant to you today, I think you're
Speaker 2: missing a big story. I really do. Uh. And if
Speaker 2: you if it was irrelevant to you today, tell me why.
Speaker 2: And I suspect some of you feel that way. Feel free.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about it back on Night's Side right after
Speaker 2: this very quick break, and we will talk about this
Speaker 2: for a while. I want to hear from as many
Speaker 2: of you as possible. This is a story that I
Speaker 2: feel my audience needs to understand and I need to understand.
Speaker 2: And that's what we're going to do for a while
Speaker 2: back at nights Side after.
Speaker 1: This Night Side with Dan Ray, I'm WBZ Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2: My lines have filled up and I'm gratified for that.
Speaker 2: So I'm going to try to get at least two
Speaker 2: or three folks in here before the ten. Let me
Speaker 2: start off with Peggy, who was calling in from West Roxbury. Peggy,
Speaker 2: welcome to Nightside. How are you?
Speaker 5: Thank you? Dan? I'm fine. I just thought i'd like
Speaker 5: to give an opinion ahead.
Speaker 2: I'm all ears, go right ahead.
Speaker 5: Okay, you you mentioned doesn't mean this much to Catholics,
Speaker 5: to filing away Catholics, to prodisses. I grew up a
Speaker 5: very strong Catholic.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 5: I still consider myself a churchgoer when I can get there.
Speaker 5: About twenty five years ago, when the problems in the
Speaker 5: church started, it affected my family through my son, who
Speaker 5: was working in a rectory when he was thirteen years old.
Speaker 5: It took twenty years of our lives. My son lost
Speaker 5: his wife, family home, or when he became conscious of
Speaker 5: what had happened in his Lord.
Speaker 2: By the way, through no fault of his own.
Speaker 5: No, no, definitely not. However, without going into any detail,
Speaker 5: I'll tell you I have ten children, and the tenth
Speaker 5: one just informed me that she knows Lunger is going
Speaker 5: to church. The other nine had already stopped going to church.
Speaker 5: And when you think of the amount, very.
Speaker 2: Very understandable what happened to their family. Absolutely right.
Speaker 5: It's like saying the emperor has no clothes. All of
Speaker 5: a sudden, we realize the people, some of whom I know,
Speaker 5: they're a wonderful priests, but some of whom had I
Speaker 5: thought given up their lives to serve God were so.
Speaker 2: Let me ask you. Let me ask you this, Peggy does,
Speaker 2: does the selection of this American today, American by birth
Speaker 2: is pope? Does that say to you there's still hope
Speaker 2: for the church or do you think the church at
Speaker 2: this point is a flawed organization?
Speaker 5: That Oh, I would say it's very flawed. I don't
Speaker 5: care if he's American or Russian or African. I don't
Speaker 5: see what it can do to make things better. I
Speaker 5: think they would have to admit to every problem they
Speaker 5: had in that field, which some still do not do.
Speaker 5: So anyway, I just want you to know that in
Speaker 5: my particular case, in my families, it does not make
Speaker 5: a bit of difference through the pope. He seems like
Speaker 5: a very nice man. I hope he is well.
Speaker 2: I'm hoping you want to get as many different you
Speaker 2: want to get as many different points of view, including
Speaker 2: your estate. Appreciate it.
Speaker 5: Thank you, Dan, have a great night.
Speaker 2: Okay, keep listening to night Side.
Speaker 5: Good bye.
Speaker 2: Okay, let me go, Let me say good night to
Speaker 2: Peggy and let me go. Next. I want to go
Speaker 2: to Kevin in South Carolina real quickly, Kevin, you were
Speaker 2: next on nightsig.
Speaker 6: Go right ahead, Hi again. We were always told he
Speaker 6: would never be an American because we had world power,
Speaker 6: and the Pope will never be from a world power.
Speaker 6: So I'm pretty much shocked. I'm brilliant shocked. I paid
Speaker 6: a little attention to it. This guy came out of
Speaker 6: nowhere to be like a little league of being in
Speaker 6: the World Series, the home run that wins the game.
Speaker 6: Don't you didn't expect him. He wasn't even name the
Speaker 6: test anything I heard before, right out of nowhere. And
Speaker 6: you know, you and I now are officially old because
Speaker 6: the Pope is younger than us.
Speaker 2: I know that's that's that happens. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6: And the last quick thing, I think the White Sox
Speaker 6: are all set for the World Series. I'm sure he'll
Speaker 6: send the papal blessing to put it in the locker
Speaker 6: room and they'll just go through it.
Speaker 2: Don't bet any money in the White Sox. They're a
Speaker 2: bad baseball team, although they have some They are four
Speaker 2: really good young pitchers from Massachusetts. If you know that roster, it's.
Speaker 6: Going to take a while to learn about him because
Speaker 6: I can make no decision on him at all because
Speaker 6: he's just totally out of nowhere.
Speaker 2: All right, Kevin, thank you so much for checking in
Speaker 2: from South Carolina. You never disappoint it.
Speaker 6: And data was eighty five today in Sonny.
Speaker 2: Sorry to tell you that's okay. It's it's been rainy
Speaker 2: all week up here. You're a wise man, Kevin. Thanks buddy,
Speaker 2: we'll talk soon. That's a great one. Be well, call
Speaker 2: more often. Let me go to my friend Harvey, Silverglade, Cambridge.
Speaker 2: Harvey is not a Catholic for any of you who
Speaker 2: might be interested, Harvey, welcome, go right ahead, sir.
Speaker 3: It seems to me they're given a number of cardinals
Speaker 3: that the prior pope appointed.
Speaker 2: Yes, he has changed the face of the Catholic Church
Speaker 2: for a century. That's a that's an interesting observation. Uh
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, this pope will be able to also
Speaker 2: replenish as these cardinals age out, and I think, uh,
Speaker 2: they generally age out at eighty. They remain cardinals, but
Speaker 2: they can't vote. I think probably the next conclave, which
Speaker 2: won't be for some time hopefully. Uh yeah, there'll be
Speaker 2: there'll be a new a Newbury group in there. But yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's an interesting I had not thought of it
Speaker 2: that way, Harve. You very perspective, very very perspective.
Speaker 3: I should say, it's it's makes the Jewish guy in
Speaker 3: a different light.
Speaker 2: Well, as I tell all of my friends, Harvey, and
Speaker 2: you've heard me say that before. The guy that founded
Speaker 2: my church happened to be Jewish and his parents were Jewish.
Speaker 2: So I think we're all kind of somehow affected and related. Okay,
Speaker 2: I think you know how I feel about that stuff.
Speaker 2: As always, my friend, you're the best. Thanks. Thanks, that's
Speaker 2: a great perspective. I hadn't thought of that. I hadn't
Speaker 2: thought of that. It's a amazing, it's amazing. Thank you, Thanks, Harvey.
Speaker 2: We'll talk soon. Okay, right, oh, thank you much. Let
Speaker 2: me get in here real quickly. Going to go to
Speaker 2: Florence and Groveland, Florence. I got a couple of minutes
Speaker 2: for you. Don't have to don't want you to have
Speaker 2: to wait. You go right ahead.
Speaker 7: Okay, thank you, Dan. I wanted to call in. I
Speaker 7: had been praying for Pope Francis to get better than
Speaker 7: he did and left the hospital and the day he
Speaker 7: passed away, and I told my son when he came home,
Speaker 7: he was shocked because he said he did ask and
Speaker 7: now he's gone. And I think today what has occurred.
Speaker 7: This is absolutely wonderful. And I am not Catholic. Then
Speaker 7: I grew up in English household grant my parents and grandparents, okay,
Speaker 7: and we're Protestant, but I have Catholic friends and Jewish friends.
Speaker 7: And also my husband was Catholic. And then after my husband,
Speaker 7: I had mentioned, I had a boyfriend for ten years
Speaker 7: he was Catholic. So I'm familiar.
Speaker 2: You're very act, You're very ecumenical, which is good, Florence.
Speaker 2: We're flat running out of time here, so i'd love
Speaker 2: to get just a final quick word from you on
Speaker 2: was today a good day or a not so good
Speaker 2: day in your opinion?
Speaker 7: Perfect day? It was wonderful.
Speaker 2: That's great, and I.
Speaker 7: Think this was meant to be.
Speaker 2: Well, there are those who are convinced of that, Florence.
Speaker 2: I'm flat out of time. I got to let you run.
Speaker 2: As always, I got you, and I didn't want you
Speaker 2: have to wait through the news. We'll talk soon. Okay,
Speaker 2: thanks so much, we'll talk soon. Have a great one.
Speaker 2: Thanks for your call. Here comes to ten back right
Speaker 2: after the only line six one, seven thirty. I want
Speaker 2: to talk about this for a while, I really do.
Speaker 2: I want to hear as many perspectives as possible. This
Speaker 2: is an important day for America. It's important day for
Speaker 2: the Catholic Church. It's important day for the world. Believe me,
Speaker 2: that's true. Back on back after this