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Speaker 1: The Paranormal, Zufos, Monstairs Mysteries. As you're listening to Talking

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Weird and now from a Kevin Deep in the northwards,

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your host, doctor Dean Bertram.

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Speaker 2: Who well, greetings or my fellow weirdos and weird adds.

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Welcome to Talking Weird on the Untold Radio Network. I'm

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your host, Dean Bertram, and I apologize if you're watching alive.

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We had a little hiccup and had to restart five

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minutes here Max and I were talking and for some

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reason the livestream man continued streaming, so we're starting again anyway.

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I'm not going to babble at all. I'm going to

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get straight into our guests because he's a very good

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friend of mine. I'm so delighted to have him back

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on the show. He's always a fascinating guest. Ask your

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questions tonight, because this is the first time he's been

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able to do a live We often pre record with

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tonight's guest. He's a very busy man, so jump in

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and ask him any questions you want to. He's an

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avid student of the paranormal, and his eclectic background includes

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aspects of psychology, addictions, and rock journalism. He has a

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master's degree in communications from Bloomsburg University and a bachelor's

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degree in psychology from a Quietness College. He's been interviewed

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on numerous podcasts, including Exploring the Bizarre with the legendary

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late Timothy Green Beckley and on Paranormal sixty with Dave Schrader.

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I always enjoyed Dave Strader and his shows. His book Shepton,

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The myth Miracle of Music was featured on Australia's Mysterious Universe.

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He contributes to Fate magazine. In fact, they have a

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couple issues right here that he contributed to, and he

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always writes wonderfully as well as Normal, Paranormal and Paranormal Underground.

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As well as the author of the book Shepton that

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I mess met before, he's also the author of Coal Region,

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Hudo Paranormal Tales from the Pit and Flying Esoteric, The

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Altered States of Euthology, which is a book I really love,

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and The Lost Tribes of Bigfoot. And we've discussed many

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of those books on the show before. So if you

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want to go back into the annals of Talking Weed

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on the Untold Radio Networks platforms, I'm sure you can

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find us chatting about those as well. He returns to

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Talking Weird tonight to chat about his latest book, Paranormal Apocalypse.

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So I'm delighted to welcome back to Talking Weed my

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very good friend Maxim Furick. Greetings Max, and sorry for

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the little balls up before.

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Speaker 3: That's quite a right thing. Thanks for inviting me to

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the cabin in the woods. It's great to be here

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and listen. I just wanted to say, you know, we

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just got back from Saying Disclosure Day and thought it

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was really well done and I'm just like filled with

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a lot of ideas and visuals and us seen it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I did.

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Speaker 2: I actually I saw it last Thursday and I did

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last week's episode about it.

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Speaker 4: I was less kind than you to it. I was disappointed.

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Speaker 3: Oh weird, okay, okay, Like mixed reviews in.

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Speaker 2: The community, it's really strange, Like I wasn't sure how

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the UFO community would take it, and it seems people

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it seems to be pretty split, like people seem to

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be really digging or people seem to be a little

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dirty on it.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, like the part of the remote viewing,

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I thought that that was really well done.

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Speaker 2: That is that's a cool that'sten. There's some cool bits

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in it. I mean, there's some great visuals. I mean,

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it moves pretty fast. It's just I won't redissect it.

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But I'm glad you got to go see it and

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enjoy it. Obviously everybody in the community is going to

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want to go and see it.

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Speaker 3: And you know, and being a Pennsylvania guy, I'm glad

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that they mentioned Kecksburg. So you know, we're good.

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Speaker 2: You know what is It's funny. The guest they had

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on last week is also I think from Pennsylvania, Eric Mintel,

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and he mentioned that he was happy to see Kecksburg

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mentioned it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah for sure, Yeah, there as.

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Speaker 4: Well, which was good.

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Speaker 2: We've got a number of people in the chat tonight,

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so make sure anybody who wants to ask Max a

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question do it because, like I said, he's a busy

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man and he isn't always he isn't always available to

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do the lives. So what else had you been up to?

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I know you've just come out with with with your

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your latest book, but what's we haven't changed recently, so

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maybe feel me in what you've been up to before?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well what happened was I had there was an

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article in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette on me and my

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fascination for Chestnut Ridge and Western Pennsylvania. That was February

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the eighth, and because of that, I got all these

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invites to paranormal and bigfoot uh conferences. Like we just

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went to the Forest County Bigfoot Festival this past weekend,

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which was great and a tiny little I mean, Forest

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County is one of the smallest counties in Pennsylvania. It's

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all forest and we were there in Marion Marionville. But yeah,

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it was pretty cool. So it's a really good thing.

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But so we're doing a bunch of conferences this summer.

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But right now in the works is my latest book.

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It's number ten and it's called The Scream of Haunted

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House and there it is, and this will be published

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by Hangar One Films Onhanger one. And this is a

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deep dive into the demonic. You know, it's for ghost hunters,

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and you know, a lot of religions and mythologies believe

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in an afterlife, and we believe that we can communicate

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with spirits and ghosts and demons and they with us,

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and so it's all about that and so it's kind

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of cool, but it should be published in the next

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two or three months. It's in production, and I'm excited.

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I think this is going to be going to be

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a very uh you know, I think it's going to

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be well received. But there it is. That was my

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idea for a cover with the scream and the haunted house.

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So it's very cool. Yeah, we'll see what happens. So,

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and you're excited.

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Speaker 4: You're so busy, you're always so busy.

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Speaker 3: Well you know, I mean, why not, right, I mean so,

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and look at you, look as talking so so but yeah,

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this is the way, this is the way I want

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to be and this is great. So, but you know,

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the paranormal community has been so wonderful and receptive and supportive.

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I can't say enough about you know, about the good

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things you know, the people that I've met, and it's

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all it's all Dean. You agree, we're on a journey.

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We don't know the and that we don't know the destination.

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But along the way you meet a lot of interesting

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and fascinating people and you know, Guardian angels and all that,

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and it's just it's just great. I mean, this is

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what life's all about, you know, just that journey. So

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you know that's what I'm doing, and I think that's

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what you're doing too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're on we are on similar paths.

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The people who haven't heard you on the show before.

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And we'll just do this quickly and then we will

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get into the book. Now, tell us about what led

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you into the world of the paranormal and the weed

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initially because you have a background now in psychology and

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in journalism and other things. But what became your your motive,

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what was the motive force that pushed you.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm an American baby boomer. You know, we

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were born between nineteen forty six and nineteen sixty four.

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We were the idea Let's generation. We had intact families.

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Dad was working, moms stay at home. We were educated,

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We had school values, church values, community values, family values.

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I mean, it was all good.

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Speaker 1: It was.

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Speaker 3: It was real good. So but as I was growing up,

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we were fed a healthy diet of science fiction and

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supernatural and horror, you know, with motion pictures, with twilight

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zone and outer limits and you know, one step beyond.

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I mean it was great stuff. And I don't know

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how the rest of the world viewed it, but man,

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it really knocked me on the head. I mean, I

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love that stuff. I couldn't get enough of it. And

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you know, and I always was an avid reader. Even

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as a child. I would seek out science fiction books

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that they actually had in the school library, which you know,

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the you know, these creatures from another planet, you know

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that bug like creatures. So I loved reading that stuff

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and HG Else and jewels run and all that.

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Speaker 1: That was.

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Speaker 3: That was me. So you know, I've always had that

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in my head. A lot of us boomers did. And

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I'll tell you, I remember back in the day when

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I was a kid, a plane flew over. I was like,

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I was from Berwick, Pennsylvania, same town as Richard sharp Shaver.

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But anyway, a plane was dropping leaflets about these flying

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saucer motion pictures playing at the drive in. And you

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can't do that now, but back in you know, the day,

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you could. So I remember that vision. I remember that experience.

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So anyway, it was all good, you know, uh, the

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monsters of film, done film and done. You know, they

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had the magazines that had all of the creatures and everything.

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I mean, I just love that stuff. I couldn't get

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enough of it, you know. So you know, so so

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that's me and here I am now I'm writing about

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it and just and I can't get enough about it,

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you know, so and and again, I mean, you know

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you say you know you and thank you. That was

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a nice compliment that I'm staying busy. But I mean,

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I I've been writing prolifically and I don't know what's

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going on, but I mean it's almost like some uh

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some unseen energies are being channeled through me with these

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books because it's it's kind of easy, you know. I mean,

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I'm I'm I'm just having so much fun writing and

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getting published. So you know, wow, you know, and and

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and it's all about finding your joy, you know, finding

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you know, what you want to do. Yeah, there's Paranormal Apocalypse.

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How it ends.

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Speaker 4: I thought, well, let's let's lead into that.

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Speaker 2: Tell us to give us a little bit of an

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overview about the book, and then we'll slide into some

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specific So it's a fascinating book, a fascinating idea too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it is. You know. I go to the to

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the motion to the movies all the time, you know,

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and I go to see horror movies. My wife won't

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go with me, so a lot of times I'll be

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the only one in the theater, you know, dead Center

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listening to this, watching this and this movie. There's been

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a lot of trailers about UH apocalyptic films, the end

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of of times. You know, whether it's going to be

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The Oh, the The Day After Tomorrow, or The Walking

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Dead or The Road or you know, twenty eight Days whatever,

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there's a lot of them, and there just seems to

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be it seems to be in vogue. It seems to

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be very trendy. And I was thinking about the way

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it is here in the United States with our with

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our the way the government is, with the different voices

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with you know, we're sort of fractured or not coming together.

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There's not a whole lot of voices of moderation. There's

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these voices at either end of the spectrum, scream yelling

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at each other. And I was just thinking that, you know,

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these are some bad times here. So I was thinking

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about that, and I was just talking about the apocalypse

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and how it's going to end. So that was the

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genesis of the book Paranormal Apocalypse. And I put together

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a you know, a prototype and hanger one had their

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illustrator to do that. But that's UH. An alien that's

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a gray dressed as a grim reaper with a sigh

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and the hour glass and all the skull So they

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really went crazy with all the schools. But I mean,

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I love it. I think that that looks so good,

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and I mean a lot of people think it's one

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of the best covers they've.

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Speaker 4: Seen, so it's just strong cover.

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Speaker 3: But basically that was it, you know. I mean, we're

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living in certain times and there's a certain amount of

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fear and apprehension and anxiety that goes along with that,

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and that was again the catalyst for the book, and

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you know, and that's why I wrote it.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting because we started to talk about disclosure day

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earlier on before we got into your book, and of

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course talk of disclosure itself has you know, an apocalyptic

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resonance to it, because apocalypse, of course can be destructive,

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but apocalypse is really just a revelation.

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Speaker 4: So in a way, if we got the.

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Speaker 2: Full disclosure that Spielberg's talking about in that movie, or

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that's hinted at constantly on the cover of Eve, major

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you know newspapers these days, in major you know media

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talk shows, it's no longer this kind of topic which

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is swept to the side. If we got that disclosure,

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that would be apocalypse. Even if it ended didn't end badly,

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it would be this incredible revelatory moments.

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Speaker 4: So do you deal with the ET thing much in

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the book.

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Speaker 3: Or with well, I I deal with the AI thing

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in the book. But you know, when when you look

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at the end, you look at the ways that people

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could die, you know, whether it's going to be a

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pandemic on a nuclear winner, you know, ah, you know,

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some sort of a disease. And again, I mean, you know,

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we have a need to be afraid with ebola and

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a coronavirus coming back around this summer, and just a

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whole lot of things. So there's a lot of reasons

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to be apprehensive. And uh, and I talk about that

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through the book. I start off with talking about HP. Lovecraft.

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Speaker 2: All right, I was gonna ask you about that. I'm

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fascinated with Lovecraft, and I love how you've brought him

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into this. So, yeah, tell us a little bit about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I'm a big fan of HP. Lovecraft. But Lovecraft,

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more than anybody else, more than any theologian or scientist

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or philosopher, was able to go and define our deepest

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fear and he and he said that fear is the

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most elemental of man's emotions, but fear of the unknown

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is the most powerful. And that exactly is the driving

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force of my book. That people are afraid, and because

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of that fear, they do certain things. They follow crowds.

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They don't use critical rational thinking, but they act sort

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of like lemmings and they just follow the group, you know.

264
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And again there's there's survival in groups. But also with

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that group mentality, there's that group think where you start

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to think just like that group. So you know, you're

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sort of give giving up your identity and your autonomy

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and you know, uh and following the other people. Again. Uh,

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people do it for safety, they do it for survival.

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But I think the rest of us don't do that.

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We uh you know, we walk our own path, We

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listen to our own our own drummer and and uh

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and that's how I define myself. I mean, I don't

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really need I mean I do have a crowd. Uh.

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I do have a uh you know, a uh tribe

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that I belong to. I have people that we share

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the uh you know, the same values and everything. But

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I think that I don't uh follow the you know,

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these these groups and these trends. You know, I consider

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myself more of a nonconformist than a conformist, and we

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talk about a lot of that in the book.

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Speaker 2: What one of the there's a fascinating I think it's

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a concept you came up with for the book, and

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that's apocalytic ore. Is that something you can in loightnous

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a little bit about.

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Speaker 3: Too, Yeah, I think that. You know, one way that

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we deal with the with the fear of the apocalypse

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is what I call apocalyptic all And what we do

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is we look at it, we get through we through

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a vicarious lens, you know, we look at that monster

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under the bed or that creature in the in the closet.

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And we do this through music. We do this from books.

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We do it with song, and we're able to go

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and look at the end times without that lens of fear.

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And we do that because we do it vicariously, and

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so we sort of turn it into a way to

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control this sphere. Okay, And again it's just a great

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example was in Los Angeles when they were doing the

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underground hundreds of underground nuclear tests, you know, maybe seventy

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five eighty five miles from Las Vegas, and then they

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started to do them above ground. Now this is kind

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of crazy, you know, and people didn't realize that, wait

303
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a second, you're getting radiation and you're going to get sick.

304
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You're gonna get leukemian cancer and everything else. But thanks steamboat.

305
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But anyway, the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce realized that

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they could make some money with this, and so what

307
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they did they would have what's called nuclear tourism, and

308
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they would find out when the above ground nukes were

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going to go off, and they would invite people to

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come there and they would bring their beer and their

311
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lawn chairs and everything in their Hawaiian shirts and watch

312
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these mushroom clouds. You know. It wasn't until later that

313
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we realized that all these people in the Vada, in

314
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Montana and Wyoming were getting leukemi and getting all these

315
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radiation related illnesses. But this was big business. This was

316
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you know, commercialized. They wanted people to enjoy the spectacle

317
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of that mushroom cloud. They even took the lead dancer

318
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,200
from the i think the Tropicana and they turned her

319
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into Miss Nuclear or whatever, you know. So she had

320
00:17:08,519 --> 00:17:13,000
this lovely outfit and it looked like a nuclear explosion,

321
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you know, with the with the chest and everything. So

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she was one of the babes there that was promoting this.

323
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But but that was crazy. That was crazy. And then

324
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and then not only were they making money from this,

325
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but then later on we realized that something was going on.

326
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And you know, in that area, there were a lot

327
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of cattle mutilations and one theory, I mean it was

328
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either aliens or cults or whatever, but one theory was

329
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it was the government. And I think Spielberg might have

330
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done this in close encounters, but they were looking getting

331
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cattle and just dissecting their organs just to take a

332
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look at that and see the amount of radioactivity that

333
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these animals had absorbed. That's one of the theories for

334
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:59,799
media mutilations. But again, it started with this nuclear tourism

335
00:18:00,319 --> 00:18:03,000
that was prevalent there, and it was just amazing, you

336
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,000
know when I was reading about this that and you're

337
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talking about hundreds of tests, you know, underground and above

338
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ground testing. So you know, I made from from from

339
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one of the most progressive countries in the world. You

340
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know that we're doing this nonsense. This is crazy.

341
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Speaker 2: It's interesting because Horace Smith who's a professor emeris of

342
00:18:22,519 --> 00:18:25,440
astronomy and Physics at Michigan State University, also a good

343
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friend of the show, and he's also a baby boomer,

344
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he says, And he says, the apocalypse books and films

345
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of my youth were almost all nuclear disasters, and that

346
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ties into kind of the perspective that you're talking about

347
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there right right.

348
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Speaker 3: And you know, I've just finished watching I love to

349
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watch the black and white ones, but I watched Panic

350
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,920
in the year zero. Raymond Land directed that, and what

351
00:18:46,039 --> 00:18:48,240
happened there was a nuclear war and all these you know,

352
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Los Angeles and Chicago, every every place is getting bombed.

353
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And so what they did with this family took off

354
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with their their trailer and they're taking off. They have guns,

355
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and they're just trying to survive. They're just trying to survive.

356
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And that's what it's about. I mean, all of these

357
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apocalyptic films, like The Road, that's a great one. A

358
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man and his son and a gun with a bullet

359
00:19:12,759 --> 00:19:14,759
and he knows if he can't protect the sun at

360
00:19:14,759 --> 00:19:16,279
the end, if the mutants are going to get him,

361
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he has a bullet for his son. And that's the

362
00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:20,599
way that's going to end. But I mean The World

363
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:26,160
by Carmack McCarthy is just such a wonderful apocalyptic film,

364
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probably one of the best.

365
00:19:27,759 --> 00:19:30,519
Speaker 2: But we've been imbued with that. I mean, it's funny.

366
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I've only been watching the new iteration of the Planet

367
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of the Apes movies with my daughter recently because she's

368
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getting into big science fiction type movies. But the original,

369
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of course Planet of the Apes, so I grew up

370
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on when I was a kid, the chelt Heston equal

371
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and as well as a sequel, sequel Beneath the Planet

372
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of the Apes was all. It was all based on

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this kind of you know nuclear war that had destroyed

374
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the world and that's how the Apes took over. And

375
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then in the second movie there's a few year of

376
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another you know nuclear you know, detonation by the mutants

377
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below the earth. So it seemed to infect every sci

378
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fi movie, from the Giant Bug movies to you know,

379
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,680
cataclysmic type films too, things like Planet of the Apes.

380
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This consciousness of the bomb seemed to be omnipresent from

381
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,160
the late forties, you know, up to I think it

382
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,480
was Bob Antona minute ago who mentioned the Day After

383
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:25,799
in nineteen eighty three, So we're looking at, you know,

384
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:30,200
forty years of cinema and TV shows and literature which

385
00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:33,640
was just obsessed with nuclear annihilation, really.

386
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,079
Speaker 3: Right, and that hasn't gone away, you know, like it's

387
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,759
a very powerful genre. And you know, I think at

388
00:20:39,759 --> 00:20:42,240
some point I'd love to write a book about the apocalypse, Like,

389
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I mean, what would that be like, you know, the

390
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,160
nuclear winner. You're just there with maybe you and a

391
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,920
couple of other people, and you were trying to survive,

392
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,440
and that's all it is. You're just trying to survive.

393
00:20:52,799 --> 00:20:58,319
You know. An interesting parallel, I believe, and I write

394
00:20:58,319 --> 00:21:01,759
about this in Paranormal Acalypse, but it's the Grapes of

395
00:21:01,799 --> 00:21:05,519
Wrath and here, so you had the oakis there and

396
00:21:05,559 --> 00:21:09,599
it was a horrible environmental apocalypse. That's what it was.

397
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,039
I mean, people from places like Oklahoma and Kansas, the

398
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,960
Iowa they had to leave because there was it was

399
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,759
everything was just horrible. It wasn't apocalypse. And The Grapes

400
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:29,519
of Wrath by John Steinbeck was criticized by the Americans

401
00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:33,480
for being pro communist, and it was criticized by the

402
00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:39,319
Russians or the Soviet Union for being anti communist, and

403
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,440
all it was I think that there was there was

404
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,960
a key there. I'm saying, the very important that people

405
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,880
should take note of. And with the Grapes of Wrath,

406
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,000
it was again it was an apocalyptic theme. It was

407
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:55,440
people banding together to survive, and that was the key.

408
00:21:55,519 --> 00:21:59,200
If you band together, you're stronger. There's there, there's strength

409
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,240
in numbers. And I think that maybe the powers to

410
00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:04,440
be I don't know, but I think that some people

411
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,319
were afraid of that overriding message from the Grapes of

412
00:22:08,319 --> 00:22:11,519
Wrath that you know, we don't want you to get

413
00:22:11,559 --> 00:22:15,240
together and organize, We want you to stay afraid, be afraid,

414
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,240
be scared, you know, be by yourself.

415
00:22:17,279 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because you have another thing in the

416
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,559
book which looks at it from the other perspective, because sometimes,

417
00:22:22,599 --> 00:22:25,279
of course banning together is a good thing, but then

418
00:22:25,319 --> 00:22:28,680
there's I suppose cultic banning together, which can be a

419
00:22:28,759 --> 00:22:30,759
dangerous thing. And you talk about Jonestown in the book.

420
00:22:30,799 --> 00:22:32,119
Can you talk a little bit about that.

421
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 3: Natsu, Yeah, And Jonestown was actually, you know, personal to me.

422
00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:42,880
Johnstown took place, I believe it was December of nineteen

423
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:49,920
seventy eight and I was in Wyoming. I was in

424
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,559
the state of Wyoming in a cabin in the woods,

425
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,240
and we were there for a little over a week.

426
00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:02,240
But there was no television, radio, newspapers, there was nothing.

427
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,880
It was just nature, you know, and just me and

428
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,480
my girlfriend. And but anyway, we came out of the

429
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,200
woods and the first thing we heard was what happened

430
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:17,759
in Jonestown, a ritualistic suicide. Over nine hundred people killed themselves,

431
00:23:17,799 --> 00:23:20,279
this was the initial story, you know, by drinking the

432
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,000
cyanide laced kool aid. And then we found out later

433
00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:28,079
that a lot of them were either shot or forced

434
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,559
or forced to drink you know, this thing. But it

435
00:23:31,599 --> 00:23:36,119
was a horrible, horrible thing, and people believed in Reverend Jones.

436
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,039
They believed him. He preached, he was a preacher, you know,

437
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:44,279
he he he would quote scripture and again he had

438
00:23:44,319 --> 00:23:46,400
those people convinced that he was going to save them.

439
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,000
And again this was about uh, the threat. He said,

440
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,640
the world was going to end, there was going to

441
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,640
be a nuclear war, and the safest place would be

442
00:23:54,759 --> 00:23:57,839
South America. This is something that he read in Reader's

443
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,000
Digest or Time magazine. And so he took his people

444
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:08,559
from from from Indiana to San Francisco to Guyana, promised them.

445
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,799
Uh uh paradise and here was horrible, I mean horrible

446
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,799
to grow things. It was there was there's bugs there. Uh.

447
00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:20,839
He had them brainwashed. He had loudspeakers that talked about

448
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,400
Reverend Jones being a deity. He was just like Jesus Christ,

449
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,799
I mean, just a whole lot of things. He was

450
00:24:26,839 --> 00:24:29,880
a wicked man, he was a perverted man. And at

451
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,640
the end, when everybody was drinking the kool aid, Uh,

452
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,200
Father Jones, Jim Jones, Dad Jones took the easy way

453
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,720
out and killed himself with a with a gun. So

454
00:24:39,839 --> 00:24:44,400
that's how we found found him there. But again it's

455
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,400
a similar thing with the cults that these individuals are

456
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,960
very charismatic and they let you know that there's you know,

457
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,559
they try to separate you from the world and it's

458
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,799
us versus the world, and the world's a dangerous place

459
00:24:58,039 --> 00:25:00,440
and I'm the only one that could go and keep safe.

460
00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:03,640
And so this is the formula. And a lot of

461
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,880
these individuals, even like Charles Manson, you know, they use

462
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,240
the Bible, they quote scripture, you know, and it gives them,

463
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,720
you know, it just helps them to get a little

464
00:25:14,759 --> 00:25:17,359
bit closer and more intimate to people. And that's exactly

465
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:22,799
what Jim Jones did. They they called that the American apocalypse,

466
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,839
but it was. And you look in retrospect, you look

467
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,759
back and say, how could people have done that? How

468
00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:32,720
could they have given up their passports and their their

469
00:25:32,839 --> 00:25:35,519
Social Security checks and all that given up to to

470
00:25:35,599 --> 00:25:39,279
this this individual, this chrismatic leader. And that's what happened.

471
00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:43,240
It was just the worst possible thing. Uh, you know,

472
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,079
just a horrible, horrible example. But it shows what cults

473
00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:52,079
can do. It shows the the power, the power, the

474
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:53,559
influence that cult leaders have.

475
00:25:54,079 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 4: Here.

476
00:25:54,599 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 2: Millennial groups or cults often lean to millennial ideas at

477
00:25:58,400 --> 00:25:59,920
the end of the world or the dating of it,

478
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,519
of an new age. Often we tend to think, because

479
00:26:03,599 --> 00:26:06,960
of I guess Christian end times theology, we often tend

480
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:13,039
to think of belief in the end being primarily Judeo

481
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,759
Christian you know idea. But did did you find this

482
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,160
idea extending beyond Christian theology?

483
00:26:20,519 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, you know, there there's a there's

484
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:28,920
a whole ball of uh Judeo Christian Islamic tradition, you know,

485
00:26:29,079 --> 00:26:31,359
and uh and uh and and it's it's important to

486
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,599
go and and point that out but you know, with

487
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,880
the end times. You know, Christians believe that you know

488
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,119
that you're gonna answer to Christ uh, that if you're saved,

489
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:43,839
that you go up in the rapture. If you're not,

490
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,559
you go into the pit and get a second chance. Uh.

491
00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:52,039
Muslims believe that they'll be toning uh with Allah. So

492
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,400
I mean there's a lot of there's a lot of

493
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:59,720
religions that look at this. We talk about h eschatology.

494
00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:03,400
The eschatologists talk about the end times, and they believe

495
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,880
that the apocalypse has either and again it's just which

496
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,119
door do you want to pick? So uh, and they

497
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:16,400
say that the apocalypse has either happened already, it's happening currently,

498
00:27:16,759 --> 00:27:19,319
or it's going to happen right around the corner. So

499
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,559
you know, uh, people prepare for this. You know, some

500
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:28,079
people are anxious about this and they you know, they

501
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,279
suffer from you know, uh, death phobia.

502
00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:31,799
Speaker 1: You know.

503
00:27:31,839 --> 00:27:35,799
Speaker 3: But but with the with the end times, we don't know,

504
00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:41,359
you know, how the end is going to be. You know,

505
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,599
in in Christianity, we we know that that there'll be

506
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,200
the four horsemen of the apocalypse, and it's coded by

507
00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:57,160
the colors. The white represents conquest, and depending on how

508
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,960
you interpret that, that could either be Jesus Christ or

509
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,519
could be the Antichrist coming. And so that's red would

510
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:07,640
be war, black is famine, and then the pale horse

511
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,480
of the green horse is the is death.

512
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:11,319
Speaker 1: Uh.

513
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,079
Speaker 3: It looks like the skin of the corpse. So you

514
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,279
have those four horsemen of the apocalypse that signal what's

515
00:28:19,319 --> 00:28:22,799
going to happen. And then we had the Seven Seals

516
00:28:23,799 --> 00:28:26,359
that has the angels singing and the you know, people

517
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,400
speaking in tongues and just a whole lot of other things.

518
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:34,160
So it's very symbolic. But you know, you know, Hal

519
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:39,160
Lindsay uh made a real big impact when he wrote

520
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,279
his book The Late Great Planet Earth, all about all

521
00:28:43,319 --> 00:28:47,319
about revelations, all about you know, the last book in

522
00:28:47,359 --> 00:28:50,519
the in the Bible. So you know, uh, it shows

523
00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:55,200
that there's a lot of interest uh by people they

524
00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:57,599
want to know about this, and you wouldn't think that, uh.

525
00:28:57,799 --> 00:29:00,519
I mean it was so huge that the book was,

526
00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:03,440
you know, just reprinted so many times. There was a

527
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,839
made for TV motion picture and then there was an

528
00:29:06,079 --> 00:29:09,480
actual motion picture on the Late Great Planet Earth. It

529
00:29:09,559 --> 00:29:13,519
was huge. It was commercially successful, and it.

530
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: Was when I was a kid it was on everybody's bookshelf.

531
00:29:16,119 --> 00:29:17,920
My parents had a copy on the bookshelf. It was

532
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,160
like Charots of the Gods. Actually, it was the book

533
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,480
that you saw whenever you looked at a seventies bookshelf.

534
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,079
When he went into somebody's house, you would see a

535
00:29:25,079 --> 00:29:26,480
copy of the late Great Planet Earth.

536
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 4: You would see a copy of Cherish of the Gods.

537
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:33,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, and that's interesting because von Donakan went

538
00:29:33,119 --> 00:29:35,400
into the past, you know, looking at this connection with

539
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,279
the aliens, and how Lindsay went into the future looking

540
00:29:39,359 --> 00:29:43,400
at the apocalypse. It's interesting these two individuals were able

541
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:48,440
to go and deal and successfully, you know, address the

542
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,640
past and the future. And it also shows that we

543
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,960
had an interest that we have a fascination in that.

544
00:29:55,039 --> 00:29:56,279
You know, we all want to know that.

545
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,839
Speaker 2: Bob Antone, who's who's married to he is married to

546
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:06,759
a Native American, says Lakota. It's the return of the

547
00:30:06,799 --> 00:30:10,079
white buffalo calf woman. That's their end times.

548
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 4: The olog.

549
00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:18,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Native Americans. You know that their tradition and

550
00:30:18,519 --> 00:30:23,119
mythology and philosophies are just so interesting just you know,

551
00:30:23,119 --> 00:30:25,319
I can't say enough about that. And but again, just

552
00:30:25,319 --> 00:30:27,079
such a wonderful, beautiful religion.

553
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: Uh.

554
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,359
Speaker 3: We know a little bit about that from the coastal

555
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,880
peoples of British Columbia. When we talk about Bigfoot and Sasquatch,

556
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:41,319
you know, they always spoke of uh sasquatch being a protector, uh,

557
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,920
you know, the prector of the environment. You know that

558
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,880
it was a sacred thing to to witness a Sasquatch

559
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,960
and all that. But yeah, the Native American traditions are

560
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,359
just filled with a lot of things like, you know,

561
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,640
good versus evil, you know, which is the whole thing.

562
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,759
I mean, they're they're I think that they're probably like

563
00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:06,920
most other cultures, you know, uh you know, uh look

564
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:14,000
at the world like that. What's interesting I find in Christianity,

565
00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:16,599
you know, it's pretty much like good or bad. It's

566
00:31:16,599 --> 00:31:17,279
good or evil.

567
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:18,039
Speaker 1: Uh.

568
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,279
Speaker 3: But when you talk to people that are Wickans or

569
00:31:20,319 --> 00:31:24,119
they're Pagans, they look at these dark forces and they

570
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,720
believe that we're surrounded by dark forces, that they are

571
00:31:27,759 --> 00:31:31,079
part of us and we need to co exist with them.

572
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,279
Whereas in Western uh or I should say Western Christianity,

573
00:31:35,599 --> 00:31:39,200
you know, we need to go and uh uh destroy

574
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,559
that those dark forces, you know, and it's not the

575
00:31:42,559 --> 00:31:46,000
way that uh Wickans or pagans uh, you know, think

576
00:31:46,039 --> 00:31:49,960
about it. I know, with with Wickans, if these dark

577
00:31:50,039 --> 00:31:53,799
forces don't cooperate, if they can't coexist, then they have

578
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:57,160
a right of banishment where they can get rid of them.

579
00:31:57,759 --> 00:32:01,680
I would imagine similar to the Catholic right of exorcism,

580
00:32:02,279 --> 00:32:05,200
you know, where they could banish the evil. But it's

581
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,519
interesting how there's so many similarities.

582
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,119
Speaker 2: You know, in the Norse traditions, they had the Twilight

583
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,039
of the Gods, that God are dammering like, there was

584
00:32:15,079 --> 00:32:19,279
this idea of an end times where you know, there

585
00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:22,480
would be a complete destruction and a type of rebirth.

586
00:32:22,559 --> 00:32:25,640
But I've also heard people suggest that maybe some Christian

587
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,759
theology had had had impacted some Norse belief systems as well.

588
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:33,079
But I know that that's that's debated, but I do

589
00:32:33,119 --> 00:32:37,359
think that it's it's something which perhaps just as every

590
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,720
you know, as every cosmology has a beginning, there's also

591
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,519
an eschatological urge that you were saying before to find

592
00:32:44,559 --> 00:32:47,200
an end. So is that something you think kind of

593
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:49,880
underpins just our nature that we want a story with

594
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,079
a beginning and an end. Is that kind of does

595
00:32:53,119 --> 00:32:56,319
that drive our drive our interest in this as well.

596
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,599
Speaker 3: Well, in a sense it does. But you know, a human,

597
00:32:59,039 --> 00:33:03,519
the human psyche, we need order, we need stability, we

598
00:33:03,559 --> 00:33:07,400
need homeostasis, we need everything to be in place. And

599
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,839
when we think about uh, looking to the stars, even

600
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,960
with disclosure day, you know, we want to find something,

601
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,319
you know, we want to believe in something. We want

602
00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:19,440
to believe that there's you. And how many times have

603
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,240
you heard the thing that you know, there's so many

604
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,279
millions or billions of stars out there that there has

605
00:33:24,319 --> 00:33:26,440
to be life on one of those, you know, I mean, God,

606
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,960
if we if I hear that again, but it's it's true,

607
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:35,000
it's true. But you know, I think that we need

608
00:33:35,359 --> 00:33:38,440
to find answers. We have to. We we are always

609
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:44,039
searching for meeting and that's probably how that paradolia comes

610
00:33:44,079 --> 00:33:46,200
into effect. You know, we see things like you look

611
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,359
into the at the clouds and you can always figure

612
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,359
something out. You can see a cloud that looks like

613
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,799
something that's recognizable, and that's paradolia. You know, we look

614
00:33:56,839 --> 00:34:00,759
at things and we either see drones or lying saucers,

615
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,240
or we see cryptids because we have to we have

616
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:06,680
to fill in the blank. We have to see something.

617
00:34:06,799 --> 00:34:10,960
So if it's not there. We conjure it up. We

618
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:16,440
there's a term called uh confabulation, and you make stuff up,

619
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:18,599
you know, like let's let's say, for example, that you're

620
00:34:19,079 --> 00:34:23,519
a high uh telephone worker and you get zapped and

621
00:34:23,559 --> 00:34:26,199
all of a sudden there's a gap there in your space. Well,

622
00:34:26,559 --> 00:34:30,599
your psyche, your brain will go and figure something out

623
00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:35,239
to complete that. So you'll confabulate, You'll make up something.

624
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,440
Maybe you know that a flying saucer abducted you and

625
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,639
took you and you were probe whatever, whatever, whatever you

626
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:44,239
want to put in there. But that's what people do,

627
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,440
and it's uh, we we don't know a lot of times.

628
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,199
I mean with the confabulation, I mean, it's just so realistic.

629
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:53,519
People can feel it. They can you know, they've they've

630
00:34:53,559 --> 00:34:57,559
experienced it, so it's part of them. But I think again,

631
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,199
to answer your question, U long winded way, I think

632
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,199
that we need to find order, We need to establish order,

633
00:35:05,559 --> 00:35:08,440
We need to get answers even you know, the most

634
00:35:09,119 --> 00:35:12,280
the biggest debate right now that other than Disclosure Day

635
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,119
is the Patterson Gimlin film. So here you had this

636
00:35:16,159 --> 00:35:20,199
guy that he was working with this woman at the university.

637
00:35:20,679 --> 00:35:26,239
Her father had a forty second clip that looked like

638
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,719
it was Patterson and Gimlin. We're doing a preview. They

639
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,920
were doing a trial run of the actual nineteen sixty

640
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:40,000
seven Patty. You know that fifty nine second film clip.

641
00:35:40,559 --> 00:35:43,599
And you know, the whole Bigfoot community is sort of

642
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:46,199
like up in arms. I mean, it's like a civil war.

643
00:35:46,559 --> 00:35:49,039
You know, a lot of us refuse to believe that

644
00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:51,320
it's a hoax because it's the only thing we have.

645
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,519
You know that Bigfoot exists, so here it is. And

646
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:57,360
now you had this other thing, and I think that

647
00:35:57,559 --> 00:36:02,360
camp is split. But in both cases, here's the thing.

648
00:36:03,039 --> 00:36:06,679
You have the nineteen sixty seven Patterson Gimlin film. That's

649
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,679
all you have. You don't have any evidence, you don't

650
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,719
have any footprints, anything else. All you have is that

651
00:36:12,119 --> 00:36:15,039
is that that video, that film, And the same thing

652
00:36:15,079 --> 00:36:17,960
with this new twenty twenty sixth one with the that

653
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,039
they claim was a you know, a dress rehearsal for

654
00:36:22,119 --> 00:36:25,079
the real thing. That's all you have. Now, you know,

655
00:36:25,159 --> 00:36:28,559
the guy that the film director, I think his name

656
00:36:28,559 --> 00:36:31,760
was Evans, Mark Evans, was able to go and get

657
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:36,760
Patterson's son to admit, to confess that it was a hoax. Right,

658
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,360
But again, one person and one film. That's just one person.

659
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,639
So I'm not convinced. And again that's all.

660
00:36:44,679 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: We're skeptical with this as well. I thought the footage

661
00:36:48,039 --> 00:36:49,039
was a hoax for a long time.

662
00:36:49,159 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 3: So yeah, the original one, Yeah, yeah, I.

663
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 2: Think Patterson Gimlin was. I think it was a hoax.

664
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,159
I thought of that for a long time. I think

665
00:36:58,159 --> 00:37:02,320
Bob Eronomous was probably the man in suits. I find

666
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,360
his testimony convincing, and I when I was a kid,

667
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,239
I wanted to Patterson GIVELN to be real, and I

668
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,320
thought it was. But when I look at it, I

669
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,159
can't see what believers see.

670
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 4: Like I literally hear.

671
00:37:12,159 --> 00:37:14,639
Speaker 2: People say you can see the muscles move here, and

672
00:37:14,639 --> 00:37:16,880
I'm like, no, I can see what might be foam

673
00:37:17,039 --> 00:37:18,280
under there or lights shot.

674
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,559
Speaker 4: I can't see you, so that might be paradolia there.

675
00:37:21,599 --> 00:37:24,159
Speaker 2: But again I think this is people with different belief

676
00:37:24,199 --> 00:37:27,280
systems attacking the thing from different perspectives. I do have

677
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:29,599
a question from you from the Wonderful for you, from

678
00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:32,639
the Wonderful Horace Smith. He says, does social media give

679
00:37:32,679 --> 00:37:36,360
more uniformity to modern apocalypse cults than was the case

680
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:37,119
decades ago?

681
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 4: Or does it do the reverse? Maybe what do you.

682
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 3: Think does it give more uniformity? What do we mean

683
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:44,440
by uniformity give me?

684
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: Well, I'm guessing because social I think what Horace is saying.

685
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,239
And if I'm wrong, correct me, Horace. I think he's

686
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,920
saying because probably social media has a broader throw, lots

687
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,639
of people have access to it today, Then I'm guessing.

688
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,280
Like fifty sixty, seventy years ago, a cult was just

689
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,039
discribed distributing its materials.

690
00:38:02,079 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 4: Here another cult was distributing its.

691
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,519
Speaker 2: Material Yeah, the social media allowed to be some consensus

692
00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:10,679
about apocalyptic ideas or is it still over the place?

693
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think what's happening with social media or things

694
00:38:14,639 --> 00:38:19,239
like a couple of years ago November, Uh, it was

695
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:24,159
the anniversary of President Kennedy's assassination and there was some

696
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,239
internet thing where they were encouraging these people to go

697
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:34,000
down to Dallas to see President John Kennedy being manifested.

698
00:38:34,039 --> 00:38:38,400
He would reappear, and also John Kennedy Junior would reappear.

699
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:44,280
Young people, uh, millennials and Generation Z for the most part,

700
00:38:44,599 --> 00:38:49,079
were depleting their their banking account, their checking account and

701
00:38:49,119 --> 00:38:52,280
going down there, flying down to Dallas to see this thing.

702
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,280
It was it was a ruse, it was a scam,

703
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,599
it was a hoax. But yet they believe this, and

704
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,599
it was on the Internet, and there there's something there

705
00:39:01,639 --> 00:39:07,559
about connecting with like minded people, like minded values, et cetera.

706
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 2: So remember the attacking area fifty one or the rating

707
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:11,639
area fifty one.

708
00:39:11,679 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 4: Thing was like that as well.

709
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 2: Became terribly popular because it was like an Internet name

710
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:18,840
and everybody. They would have had that response prior to

711
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:20,360
the Internet if somebody tried to.

712
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 3: Do it current correct, But either way, whether it's today

713
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,039
with today's technology and the media, or if it was

714
00:39:26,119 --> 00:39:28,559
yesterday when you had word of mouth and everything. I mean,

715
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,599
fear is fear and people are people. Nothing has changed.

716
00:39:32,599 --> 00:39:36,039
Maybe the technology has changed, but people haven't changed. You know,

717
00:39:36,039 --> 00:39:38,039
we're the same we are now as we were two

718
00:39:38,079 --> 00:39:41,599
hundred years ago. We think the same emotions, same everything.

719
00:39:42,159 --> 00:39:47,559
Nothing nothing has changed other than maybe politics and fashion

720
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,679
and technology, but human beings stayed the same.

721
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 2: Apocalypticism or millennialism or the belief in the end can

722
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,320
be exciting as well. I'm going to just tell a

723
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,159
little personal and don I'm going to segue streat in

724
00:40:01,199 --> 00:40:03,079
a question for you which it's related.

725
00:40:03,599 --> 00:40:04,679
Speaker 4: When I was a kid.

726
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 2: I remember having stolen one of my father's Playboys, as

727
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,760
I guess you do when you're a boy, and there

728
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,719
was an article in there, and believe it or not,

729
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,679
I did like the articles as well. There was an

730
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,599
article in there which I don't even know if you

731
00:40:16,639 --> 00:40:18,480
get in a playboy today, I don't read it anymore.

732
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,199
So I don't know. I'm not that I ever really

733
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:21,440
read it except when I was a kid, so in

734
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,840
my dad's issues, but there was an article an author

735
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,480
had done what would be the best ten weapons or

736
00:40:27,519 --> 00:40:30,760
something ive an a Mega man situation happened, literally referenced

737
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,639
the Amiga Man, the Great Charlton Hester movie, and so

738
00:40:32,679 --> 00:40:34,760
they had, you know, this rifle and this sling shot

739
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,320
and handgun and this you know, crossbow and whatever. But

740
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,960
that obviously becomes exciting. Then when you're a boy or

741
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:44,920
even perhaps a young man, you're reading were what would

742
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,440
I have if the end game? And that's half the

743
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,280
attraction of the whole zombie thing. I think is, well,

744
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,280
how would I fight off the zombie hordes? But you

745
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,000
talk about an earlier version. Actually I think of the

746
00:40:55,039 --> 00:40:59,599
Amiga Man because of course the Vincent Price vehicle, the

747
00:40:59,679 --> 00:41:02,960
Last Man on Earth. Is the is really there? It's

748
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:04,679
They're both both based on.

749
00:41:05,679 --> 00:41:09,519
Speaker 3: The Richard Matheson. Yeah, yeah, what is it?

750
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:10,559
Speaker 1: Yeah?

751
00:41:10,559 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 4: What's the name of that? I'm monstrous ithing? What is

752
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,079
that title of that book? Anyways? Also the.

753
00:41:17,519 --> 00:41:19,400
Speaker 2: No No No, that's another one which Will Smith is

754
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,840
also ironically because Will Smith.

755
00:41:21,679 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 4: Was in the what is the name? I'm going to

756
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:24,920
find right now?

757
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,199
Speaker 2: Well, you well, you can talk about the actual book

758
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:34,599
and of the movie. I'll find the the Matheson the Methson.

759
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,119
Speaker 3: I should I should know that I'm blocking, but.

760
00:41:36,119 --> 00:41:38,880
Speaker 4: I do know it, but I've forgotten right now.

761
00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:43,559
Speaker 3: So The Last Man on Earth was a American Italian

762
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,400
motion picture was black and white. I think it's one

763
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:52,039
of the best apocalyptic films I've seen. It's it's it's

764
00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:56,480
just works. Vincent Price played the part of a doctor.

765
00:41:57,159 --> 00:42:00,599
And what happens is there was some sort of a

766
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:07,800
plague and these people, these human beings, revert into cannibalistic vampires,

767
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:12,119
and so his wife is one of them.

768
00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:14,519
Speaker 4: But and horror found the book just as I, well,

769
00:42:14,559 --> 00:42:15,440
he put it up and I just.

770
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 3: So. So he goes around with the state killing all

771
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:26,199
these people. And at the end, though Vincent Price ends

772
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,639
up in a church and he gets stabbed in the side,

773
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,039
almost christ like, and as he's dying there, he's yelling

774
00:42:34,159 --> 00:42:37,920
at these vampires, at these zombies. He calls them freaks.

775
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:41,039
He goes, you're freaks. And he dies at like a man.

776
00:42:41,119 --> 00:42:44,440
He's proud that he's a man. He's proud that, you know,

777
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:50,360
to die defending you know, human human kind. And and

778
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,440
then I talk a little bit about humans versus animals

779
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:54,920
in the book, and I talk about, you know, we

780
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,559
are different than animals because we have more DNA, and

781
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,000
more is better. And with more DNA it gives us

782
00:43:02,039 --> 00:43:05,760
more cognition and gives us more spirituality. Those are the

783
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,960
two things we have going for us. And you know

784
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,519
what I do when I do some lectures, you know,

785
00:43:11,559 --> 00:43:15,079
some programs surrounding my books, somebody will always raise their

786
00:43:15,079 --> 00:43:18,400
hand and say, well, you know, animals can make tools,

787
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,480
and you know dolphins can communicate all this, And that's true,

788
00:43:22,519 --> 00:43:24,559
they do, and animals can do some wonderful things. But

789
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,239
you know, they don't drive cars, and they don't go

790
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,400
to the moon, and they don't they haven't. They don't

791
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,480
dominate the earth like human beings, do you know, with

792
00:43:34,679 --> 00:43:36,880
which not all of it is a good thing, but

793
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:41,280
I mean humans have more. And you know, and what's

794
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,920
interesting as well is that, you know, being different than animals,

795
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,280
we still share ninety eight percent of our DNA with

796
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,599
gorillas and chimpanzees. So so ninety eight percent. So the two

797
00:43:53,679 --> 00:43:59,119
percent represents you know, the cognition and the spirituality. That's

798
00:43:59,159 --> 00:44:00,719
what makes us different, right.

799
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:02,599
Speaker 2: I think we share a lot about I think even

800
00:44:02,599 --> 00:44:04,320
with like, I don't know, like a horse, we share

801
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,360
an incredible amount of DNA as well. I think people

802
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,480
often use, you know, an evolutionist too often use the

803
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,599
similarity to say, well, that's what we're related to. But

804
00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:17,199
then you know, we also share it with all kinds.

805
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,599
You know, there's an amount of shared across species.

806
00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 3: And just and just if I could just throw my

807
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,800
two cents about evolution, you know, you know, there's no

808
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,920
missing link. And we didn't come from apes. There was

809
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:35,039
a single what they call that, the single person, the

810
00:44:35,119 --> 00:44:41,159
single person that that man and ape came from. And

811
00:44:41,199 --> 00:44:44,960
then the apes evolved successfully and a little bit later

812
00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:49,840
we evolved. Uh, and we had Homo sapiens and Neanderthal

813
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,599
you know, walking the earth together. As a matter of fact,

814
00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:57,400
some of us still have Neanderthal DNA, like maybe as

815
00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,079
much as two to four percent of us, so.

816
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 4: They probably would have, you know, into breeding. I mean,

817
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,920
I'm suspicious. I think evolution is probably on its last legs.

818
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,079
Speaker 2: I think in one hundred years it will be it'll

819
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:09,320
be a science which is thrown overboard.

820
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 4: I think the.

821
00:45:09,679 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 2: Paradigm's closer to collapse all the time. Actually, I think

822
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,800
there's too many things that the paradigm no longer addresses.

823
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 4: But that's a that's another show anywhere.

824
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: And also I'm a forty and so I don't trust

825
00:45:19,039 --> 00:45:20,360
scientific paradigms at all.

826
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 3: Knowing the end is closer than someone realized.

827
00:45:25,039 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 2: No, no, I mean I think the end of the

828
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,639
paradigm of evolution is close, and not necessarily the end

829
00:45:29,639 --> 00:45:31,599
of the world. I think we I think evolution is

830
00:45:31,599 --> 00:45:37,559
a science as a parrot, as the major scientific paradigm

831
00:45:37,599 --> 00:45:40,920
construct to explain, you know, the development of the species,

832
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,719
the origin of the species. I think it will fall away.

833
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,039
I think already things like intelligent design, and there's all

834
00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:49,400
kinds of different issues which I think are beating into it,

835
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:53,519
and I think I don't I don't think it'll maintain

836
00:45:53,599 --> 00:45:55,760
the hegemony that it's had now for you know, over

837
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:56,320
a century.

838
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 4: I don't think.

839
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:01,119
Speaker 2: I think already it's starting to lose some of the steam,

840
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:02,800
and I think in one hundred years it won't.

841
00:46:02,559 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 3: Be They they do say that evolution is messy, that

842
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,400
it's not linear. It goes all over the place. You know,

843
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,119
when you think you have a figured out, I mean

844
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,280
something with some anomaly, some outlier happens.

845
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,519
Speaker 2: I think, I think there's I think there's a micro evolution.

846
00:46:20,599 --> 00:46:22,280
I just don't think there's you know, or I just

847
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,719
don't think there's macro evolution, like I think you can

848
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,440
see that if you breed dogs, you.

849
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,760
Speaker 4: Know what I mean, if you.

850
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 2: Clearly dogs have been genetically, you know, tampered with by

851
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,199
us to have certain traits.

852
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 4: And you can do this with horses and all kinds

853
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:35,440
of things.

854
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,039
Speaker 2: But that's it's I think it's a different thing to

855
00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:42,159
say that there there is common traits within a specific

856
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:47,039
species or subspecies or whatever the scientific term is, to

857
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:51,320
say that, you know, all life came from a single

858
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,639
you know, spark in a swamp once upon a time.

859
00:46:53,559 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 3: Or a month.

860
00:46:54,159 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 2: I think so, I think there are aspects of it

861
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,440
which will remain. I'm sure there's all kinds of interesting

862
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,039
mop up works to do to see how people, you know,

863
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,719
animals of the same genus or whatever it is, how

864
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:07,239
they came to be. But I think the broader concepts

865
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,960
of evolution, which has become almost a religion and to itself,

866
00:47:11,039 --> 00:47:13,519
the idea that you know, life comes out of, you know,

867
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,599
a chemical reaction in a puddle. I think that that

868
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,960
type of evolutionary idea is becoming less and less sustainable

869
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,239
the more the more we find out about what. But again,

870
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:25,800
I'm not a scientist and I'm a forty and so

871
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:28,960
I suspect them. I don't respect a whole lot of

872
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:31,920
science period. Talk about the drone thing a little bit

873
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,119
because that ties into the whole kind of UFO apocalyptism,

874
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,800
like the drone panic which we had back in twenty

875
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:38,800
twenty four, which I made.

876
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's true, And it was a type of panic.

877
00:47:42,639 --> 00:47:47,119
I mean it started around Halloween and a reporter from

878
00:47:47,159 --> 00:47:51,960
New Jersey started to report all these drones flying over

879
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,239
in New Jersey and it started to get out of hand.

880
00:47:55,320 --> 00:48:02,039
They were banning aircraft and certain certain airports. It was

881
00:48:02,039 --> 00:48:04,960
getting really kind of crazy, people getting spooked, and then

882
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,360
you started to get every I think there was a

883
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,000
bit of paradolia too, because every time everybody would look

884
00:48:11,079 --> 00:48:12,960
up into the sky, they would see drones, they would

885
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:17,400
see something, and we didn't know what was happening. Biden,

886
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:24,719
the Biden administration, his guide doing the talking points, was

887
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,639
not able to go and satisfy me with his explanation.

888
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,760
Donald Trump, who was a nominee, really should have kept

889
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:35,360
his mouth shut, but he was saying that that the

890
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,360
government knew something and there was a conspiracy of silence.

891
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:41,639
They're not sharing this with the people. So that elevated

892
00:48:41,679 --> 00:48:46,559
this to another thing. A manufacture of drones claimed that

893
00:48:47,159 --> 00:48:50,360
Ukrainian terrorists took a nuclear bomb and brought it to

894
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:56,079
New Jersey, and the military, American military was sending drones

895
00:48:56,119 --> 00:48:59,679
over there to seek out that that signature, that heat signature.

896
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:05,159
A woman of female, a representative from South Carolina who's

897
00:49:05,199 --> 00:49:10,440
on the UFO committee, claimed that these were extraterrestrial in nature.

898
00:49:10,519 --> 00:49:14,239
So you had all of these things and at the

899
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:18,960
end there was no conclusion. There was no closure. A

900
00:49:19,079 --> 00:49:22,039
government is supposed to keep us safe and to keep

901
00:49:22,119 --> 00:49:25,920
us informed. We were not informed. So hold on to

902
00:49:26,039 --> 00:49:28,199
that for a second. That was the drone history of

903
00:49:28,199 --> 00:49:31,320
twenty twenty four, and go back to twenty twenty three

904
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,519
when we had the Chinese balloons as big as a

905
00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:37,719
bus going over Alaska in the United States, and that

906
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,679
we shot down. Again, what was the closure there, what

907
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,199
was the end? What was the conclusion that our government

908
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,559
gave us? And I'm saying that there was nothing. So

909
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,159
twenty twenty four, twenty twenty three, and let's go back

910
00:49:51,159 --> 00:49:53,480
to July of twenty twenty three where we had the

911
00:49:53,519 --> 00:49:57,960
congressional UFO hearings. We had him in twenty four and

912
00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:01,800
again in twenty twenty five. All three of those congressional

913
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:06,280
hearings with David Grush, with Luis Alexando, and I forget

914
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:10,679
the main person in the last one, but all they

915
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:15,199
said was the government knows something and isn't being transparent

916
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,360
and isn't sharing it with us. Grush said that he

917
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,400
knows where the bodies are and he knows where the

918
00:50:21,079 --> 00:50:25,400
vehicles are. But again this was in twenty twenty three. Again,

919
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,440
he's had plenty of time to share that information with people. Again,

920
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:33,920
don't tell me about disclosure, and don't tell me about transparency,

921
00:50:34,159 --> 00:50:39,159
because there isn't any. We're being bamboozled by the government

922
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:44,320
every which way you look. I mean, those congressional UFO hearings,

923
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,960
I mean, come on, you know, I mean they taught

924
00:50:47,039 --> 00:50:49,519
us nothing. They taught us nothing. And here's the thing.

925
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,280
You know, you saw disclosure Day, and I think that

926
00:50:53,119 --> 00:50:58,079
everything's comportant analyzed. I think that the only people that

927
00:50:58,199 --> 00:51:01,079
get the information, the intel are those who have a

928
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,719
need to know, right, and that may not be me

929
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:05,039
and you.

930
00:51:06,159 --> 00:51:08,280
Speaker 2: I think lots of people in the government don't have

931
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,880
a need to know as well. And I suspect that

932
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,639
it's interesting that you talked about the drone things and

933
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,800
disclosure because it's or the hearings and the things around

934
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:21,159
UFO disclosure, because so much of that drone conversation and

935
00:51:21,199 --> 00:51:25,280
those Chinese big balloons which were shot down often there

936
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:29,000
were military like announcements and press releases where the UAP

937
00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:32,960
and Ufo language were used inside. So it was almost

938
00:51:33,079 --> 00:51:37,800
like it's a conspiratorial stretch to say that it was intentional,

939
00:51:38,039 --> 00:51:41,000
but it certainly confused the waters whether it was intentional

940
00:51:41,079 --> 00:51:43,320
or not. And then if you want to become conspiratorial,

941
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,320
you do have to ask how much is you beating

942
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:50,079
the drama of disclosure and the information where being kind

943
00:51:50,079 --> 00:51:53,440
of drip fed. How much of that is just intentionally

944
00:51:53,559 --> 00:51:57,159
to keep us, you know, getting excited about a UAP

945
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,760
reality which might be a realistic reality anyway. How much

946
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,440
might it not just be to to cover genuine secret

947
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:06,679
projects which are our own. How much might it just

948
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:08,840
be cover for other things? How much might it be

949
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,239
flexing to foreign powers to trying to convince the Chinese

950
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:14,679
that we really do have ET technology or something I

951
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,599
wouldn't even want to hasn't to guess the reason why

952
00:52:18,599 --> 00:52:21,400
we might be being deceived, or the reason why disclosure

953
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:25,199
might be spun by certain agencies and forced in the

954
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,320
intelligence and both military and civilian agencies. But I do

955
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,079
think that it's being used for some reason above and

956
00:52:33,159 --> 00:52:36,559
beyond actually telling us any truth about whether extraterrestrial life

957
00:52:36,639 --> 00:52:39,679
is or isn't visiting. I just get the sense that it's,

958
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,920
you know, in something way, And you're right, we're not

959
00:52:43,199 --> 00:52:44,920
We're not going to be the people who are going

960
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,519
to know the real info anyway. But it's a great spin.

961
00:52:48,039 --> 00:52:50,519
It keeps the media cycle busy, and it keeps us looking,

962
00:52:50,639 --> 00:52:51,599
you know, at this hand.

963
00:52:52,159 --> 00:52:54,760
Speaker 3: So I don't know, well, you know, I think I

964
00:52:54,800 --> 00:52:59,519
think too, you know, I think that yourthologies become a religion.

965
00:52:59,679 --> 00:53:02,079
I mean, people want to believe, they want to believe

966
00:53:02,079 --> 00:53:04,679
that they're out there. They want to believe that Roswell

967
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,480
on area fifty one, you know there are things happening

968
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:11,400
there and that were reverse engineering these craft and all

969
00:53:11,480 --> 00:53:12,079
the other things.

970
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 2: You know what that's interesting Just quickly about Disclosure Day,

971
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:16,400
because I don't know what we touched on this last

972
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,079
week and I've touched on it with you quickly, is

973
00:53:18,119 --> 00:53:21,880
that the nineteen forty seven Roswell Day, right, is a

974
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:24,360
big deal in Disclosure Day because now it's a big

975
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,159
deal in the history of UFO's when we talk about it.

976
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,599
When Spielberg's film Last major UFO MA, I mean, there

977
00:53:30,639 --> 00:53:32,639
was et But let's just go back to close encounters.

978
00:53:32,639 --> 00:53:36,880
In the late seventies, Roswell hadn't re emerged yet as

979
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:38,920
something that she was on the tongue of everybody, because

980
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:42,320
uphology didn't talk about Roswell at all until the very

981
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:43,639
late seventies early eighties.

982
00:53:43,679 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 3: I have two early eighties.

983
00:53:45,039 --> 00:53:46,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I have two.

984
00:53:46,039 --> 00:53:49,039
Speaker 2: Different I have several different UFO encyclopedies, but I have

985
00:53:49,079 --> 00:53:51,000
two which both came out in nineteen eighty one by

986
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:53,880
Margaret Sachs and one by Ronald's story on my Shelf

987
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,119
over there, and neither of I don't even think.

988
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,360
Speaker 4: Roswell's a footnote in there.

989
00:53:57,519 --> 00:53:59,679
Speaker 2: They would have written it in seventy nine, published in

990
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:02,000
eighty and all of this. If you went forward to

991
00:54:02,079 --> 00:54:05,840
nineteen ninety, Roswell would be, you know, the most well

992
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:11,280
known term in UFO war. So something happened certainly between

993
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,519
Disclosure Day and Close Encounters where the narrative changed, like

994
00:54:15,559 --> 00:54:20,360
Spielberg's version of the UFO conspiracy in Close Encounters, isn't

995
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,280
that they really know what the hell's going on? Is

996
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,840
that they're trying to communicate and they think they're EAT's

997
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:27,840
and they're getting ready for an event. Disposure dates an

998
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,039
entirely different story. It's correct craft in forty seven. It's

999
00:54:31,079 --> 00:54:34,119
the new UFO story, a UFO story that didn't exist

1000
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:35,760
yet in the late nineteen seven.

1001
00:54:36,639 --> 00:54:40,599
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I think the Roswell incident with who was

1002
00:54:40,639 --> 00:54:42,119
it Charles.

1003
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 2: Moore, William Moore and Charles Burlitz.

1004
00:54:47,679 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 3: Right, and thanks to Stanton Friedman ye he was in

1005
00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:54,079
the fild. Yeah, and I think that came out in

1006
00:54:54,159 --> 00:54:57,400
nineteen eighty. That was something like thirty years after Roswell.

1007
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,920
So that's when we started to hear about a bit

1008
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:01,760
of thirty years after the fact.

1009
00:55:01,639 --> 00:55:03,239
Speaker 4: And they were both intelligence assets.

1010
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:05,280
Speaker 2: We know for a fact William Moore was an Air

1011
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,880
Force intelligence asset because he said that the mof On

1012
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,679
Symposium in nineteen eighty nine, I've been feeding you all

1013
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:12,800
nonsense and spying on you for the US Air Force.

1014
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,119
And we have US Air Force personnel who confirmed that,

1015
00:55:15,199 --> 00:55:18,199
like Richard Dodie confirms that William Moore worked for him.

1016
00:55:18,519 --> 00:55:21,960
And there's a lot of suspicion amongst, you know, a

1017
00:55:22,039 --> 00:55:25,920
number of people that Friedman was that Friedman was perhaps

1018
00:55:26,119 --> 00:55:29,760
military intelligence as well, including the head of his network.

1019
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,440
Who doesn't want who who know? He doesn't want to

1020
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:34,599
throw Freedman under the bus because Doug likes Freedman. But

1021
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,280
Doug's told a story on my show that he received

1022
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,719
a call from Stanton Friedman and on his caller ID

1023
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:41,840
it was an Air Force base.

1024
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,519
Speaker 3: Okay, you know what I mean?

1025
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:45,880
Speaker 4: What does that say? I don't know.

1026
00:55:46,039 --> 00:55:54,079
Speaker 3: Yeah. I reached out to him about the Philadelphia experiment

1027
00:55:54,159 --> 00:55:56,079
and he wrote a letter to back to me. So, well,

1028
00:55:56,119 --> 00:55:56,719
that's kind of cool.

1029
00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,760
Speaker 4: I've met Stanton Freedman, lovely man. But I suspect, like

1030
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:00,360
a lot.

1031
00:56:00,199 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 2: Of people who were the heavy hitters in seventies and

1032
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:08,599
eighties uthology connected with intem. Whether they were totally controlled

1033
00:56:08,679 --> 00:56:11,000
or not's another story, but they were certainly connected with

1034
00:56:11,079 --> 00:56:11,880
these agencies.

1035
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't think Friedman gets the credit and

1036
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,880
the respect that he needs. I mean, he did a

1037
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:21,400
lot of the groundwork, you know, for the to uncover

1038
00:56:22,039 --> 00:56:23,360
Roswaldso you.

1039
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:27,960
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, I mean, of course he and he and

1040
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:32,639
who's his cohort I've forgotten the name now, not Friedman, Yeah,

1041
00:56:32,639 --> 00:56:36,039
it is, it's Friedman. Well, Friedman publishes the MJ twelve

1042
00:56:36,119 --> 00:56:38,320
documents in his m J twelve book, But it's William

1043
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:42,440
Moore and Jamie shanderre save the MJ twelve documents. So again,

1044
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:47,639
these people who were in cahoots with with with with Richard.

1045
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:51,639
Speaker 4: Dody kind of this is very small cadre.

1046
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:57,199
Speaker 2: Of people, including Friedman, particularly William Moore, are notably Richard

1047
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,239
Dody and along along with just a few others who

1048
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:05,320
really invented what now is popularized in movies like Disclosure Day.

1049
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,679
The whole reason we think about the secret government in

1050
00:57:08,679 --> 00:57:10,400
the way we think about MJ twelve. And the whole

1051
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,639
reason we think about Roswell, we think about Roswell, we

1052
00:57:12,679 --> 00:57:13,800
can literally trace that to.

1053
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,159
Speaker 4: William Moore and a handful of other people. And that

1054
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,800
makes me. And the fact that Williamore comes out in eighty.

1055
00:57:18,679 --> 00:57:23,199
Speaker 2: Nine the world's leading UFO convention, move On Symposium and

1056
00:57:23,199 --> 00:57:27,000
says listen, I'm an AFOSI assets. I fed you guys nonsense.

1057
00:57:27,039 --> 00:57:28,719
I've been spying on you for the air Force for

1058
00:57:29,079 --> 00:57:31,239
And the fact that the whole room erupted people were

1059
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:33,480
screaming and yelling at him one moment saying.

1060
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,480
Speaker 4: Let's get a fire hose and hose him off the stage.

1061
00:57:35,559 --> 00:57:37,840
Speaker 2: But the great irony to me is the UFO community

1062
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:41,239
after that didn't go well. Maybe everything that Moore told

1063
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:45,239
us Roswell MJ twelve, all these other stories which came

1064
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,039
directly from.

1065
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 4: More, maybe maybe we need to rethink that as our

1066
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:51,239
real They didn't.

1067
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 2: They cursed only more. They still curse Richard Dodie, They

1068
00:57:55,039 --> 00:57:57,159
curse the people who invented all of this stuff, but

1069
00:57:57,199 --> 00:57:59,320
they still believe all the stuff that they invented. It's

1070
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,440
to me, it's crazy. It's a kind of this cognitive dissonance.

1071
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, But like I said, I think that

1072
00:58:06,119 --> 00:58:09,760
whole Roswell thing is a religion, just like just like Bigfoot.

1073
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:11,559
We don't we can't let old of it, you know,

1074
00:58:12,079 --> 00:58:17,360
and that's okay, you know. But again with the new film, uh,

1075
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,079
you know, the camps or divided people are just talking

1076
00:58:20,119 --> 00:58:22,920
and it's good, you know, it's you know, but I

1077
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:27,679
think if we could get more science, get more evidence,

1078
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,360
than we're good. But it's just very difficult to get that.

1079
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 2: So well, I love the way that you approach all

1080
00:58:33,039 --> 00:58:34,880
of this stuff as we get near to the end.

1081
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:38,199
Is there anything else you wanted to uh to mention

1082
00:58:39,079 --> 00:58:41,960
regarding Paranormal Apocalypse? I have the link to where people

1083
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,360
can get it directly from Hango one in the show,

1084
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:46,360
which they can also get it from Amazon. But is

1085
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:47,599
there anything else you want to tell people?

1086
00:58:47,599 --> 00:58:48,159
Speaker 4: What people know?

1087
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:50,559
Speaker 3: Now? I think that you know a lot of us

1088
00:58:50,599 --> 00:58:53,679
as HP Lovecraft indicating a lot of us are have

1089
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,440
the sphere of the unknown. And in my book, I

1090
00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:00,480
tell people, you know, be your own, your own person,

1091
00:59:00,559 --> 00:59:04,800
you know, you know, find your identity, get grounded, uh

1092
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:09,280
you know, uh, use rational thought and don't don't follow

1093
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:13,920
the leaders. Don't follow the lemmings because you don't need

1094
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:15,800
to do that. I mean, there's a there's there's no

1095
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:19,039
there's nothing righteous about doing that. I mean, be your

1096
00:59:19,079 --> 00:59:22,360
own person and and uh and and go through this

1097
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:25,880
this life, uh without fear. I think that's the message

1098
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:29,199
in Paranormal Apocalypse. But you know, just there's just too

1099
00:59:29,199 --> 00:59:33,920
many people that are afraid of of the unknown. And

1100
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:37,760
and I think with with knowledge and with with friends

1101
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,400
and support, you know, you don't have to uh, you know,

1102
00:59:40,559 --> 00:59:44,280
live that fear. So I think that'd that'd be my message.

1103
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,719
And that also the other thing again we mentioned this,

1104
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:49,400
but my new book coming out by Hanker One is

1105
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:52,159
The Scream of the Haunted House. I'm expecting that to

1106
00:59:52,199 --> 00:59:55,960
be out and maybe another two or three months and

1107
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:59,519
we'll see how how that goes. But I'm excited about that,

1108
00:59:59,599 --> 01:00:02,360
and perhaps we can have a chat about that.

1109
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 4: That'd be good.

1110
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:05,119
Speaker 2: It's been it's been quite sometimes since I've had you on,

1111
01:00:05,239 --> 01:00:06,760
so we can get you back sooner and talk about

1112
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:07,280
the next.

1113
01:00:07,079 --> 01:00:09,159
Speaker 4: One, yeah, which would be great.

1114
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,639
Speaker 2: Well, again, I've put the links to where people can

1115
01:00:12,679 --> 01:00:14,880
go to your website as well as where they can

1116
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,280
get your book from Hangar one. Of course, they're all available.

1117
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,039
All your books I think are available from Amazon as well,

1118
01:00:21,079 --> 01:00:24,599
so it's pretty easy to track Max's books down and

1119
01:00:24,719 --> 01:00:27,719
until Well, firstly, that was it was great having you

1120
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:28,360
back on the show.

1121
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:29,199
Speaker 4: I really interested.

1122
01:00:29,639 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1123
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's always great. Yeah. And also i just want

1124
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:36,679
to tell your listeners that I'm originally from Berwick, Pennsylvania,

1125
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:40,079
the same place as Richard Sharp Shaver, who was the

1126
01:00:40,119 --> 01:00:44,599
most fascinating individual from Berwick. And uh, you know who

1127
01:00:44,679 --> 01:00:48,159
is the you know, the protagonist and the Shaver Mystery,

1128
01:00:48,239 --> 01:00:50,079
so you know as you know.

1129
01:00:50,599 --> 01:00:52,559
Speaker 4: Indeed, and people you want to see my film The

1130
01:00:52,599 --> 01:00:53,280
Shaver Mystery.

1131
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 2: I haven't started talking about his next screening yet, but

1132
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:59,639
the next screening I'm aware of is is last weekend

1133
01:00:59,679 --> 01:01:04,559
in jul at Ufo Days in Elmwota, Wisconsin, where I'll

1134
01:01:04,559 --> 01:01:06,639
be screening the short on the Saturday night at six

1135
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:11,159
thirty pm. And I'll also be giving my Little Shaver

1136
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:15,239
Mystery Part two talk and presentation. So if people are

1137
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,960
around for I haven't even prepared anything to show, normally

1138
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,480
have a little visual shows, but that will be for

1139
01:01:21,519 --> 01:01:23,800
people who are listening already. It will be the last

1140
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,440
I think it's the last Saturday. Maybe it's the twenty fourth, No, no, no, sorry,

1141
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:30,679
that would be the twenty fifth, the twenty fifth of July.

1142
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,679
But anyway, Max, it was great, great chatting to you.

1143
01:01:34,719 --> 01:01:36,159
Thanks so much for coming on mate.

1144
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks Dan. Continued success with your show Ed with

1145
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:41,559
the Shaver Mystery. Thank you so much.

1146
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:42,159
Speaker 4: Well man.

1147
01:01:42,159 --> 01:01:44,599
Speaker 2: I love your books and I hope you keep writing

1148
01:01:44,599 --> 01:01:46,360
them because I'm looking forward to talking to you about

1149
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:48,480
more and until I talk to you again, Max, which

1150
01:01:48,519 --> 01:01:51,239
will be when your next book drops, I hope, and

1151
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:54,000
until I talk to everybody else out there, which will

1152
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:57,920
be Same Weird time, which is nine pm Central Thursday,

1153
01:01:58,199 --> 01:02:01,039
Same Weird network, the radio network.

1154
01:02:01,199 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 4: Please keep it weird.

1155
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:04,440
Speaker 3: Keep it weird.

1156
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:25,159
Speaker 1: M m hm