Speaker 1: The Paranormal, Zufos, Monstairs Mysteries. As you're listening to Talking
Weird and now from a Kevin Deep in the northwards,
your host, doctor Dean Bertram.
Speaker 2: Who well, greetings or my fellow weirdos and weird adds.
Welcome to Talking Weird on the Untold Radio Network. I'm
your host, Dean Bertram, and I apologize if you're watching alive.
We had a little hiccup and had to restart five
minutes here Max and I were talking and for some
reason the livestream man continued streaming, so we're starting again anyway.
I'm not going to babble at all. I'm going to
get straight into our guests because he's a very good
friend of mine. I'm so delighted to have him back
on the show. He's always a fascinating guest. Ask your
questions tonight, because this is the first time he's been
able to do a live We often pre record with
tonight's guest. He's a very busy man, so jump in
and ask him any questions you want to. He's an
avid student of the paranormal, and his eclectic background includes
aspects of psychology, addictions, and rock journalism. He has a
master's degree in communications from Bloomsburg University and a bachelor's
degree in psychology from a Quietness College. He's been interviewed
on numerous podcasts, including Exploring the Bizarre with the legendary
late Timothy Green Beckley and on Paranormal sixty with Dave Schrader.
I always enjoyed Dave Strader and his shows. His book Shepton,
The myth Miracle of Music was featured on Australia's Mysterious Universe.
He contributes to Fate magazine. In fact, they have a
couple issues right here that he contributed to, and he
always writes wonderfully as well as Normal, Paranormal and Paranormal Underground.
As well as the author of the book Shepton that
I mess met before, he's also the author of Coal Region,
Hudo Paranormal Tales from the Pit and Flying Esoteric, The
Altered States of Euthology, which is a book I really love,
and The Lost Tribes of Bigfoot. And we've discussed many
of those books on the show before. So if you
want to go back into the annals of Talking Weed
on the Untold Radio Networks platforms, I'm sure you can
find us chatting about those as well. He returns to
Talking Weird tonight to chat about his latest book, Paranormal Apocalypse.
So I'm delighted to welcome back to Talking Weed my
very good friend Maxim Furick. Greetings Max, and sorry for
the little balls up before.
Speaker 3: That's quite a right thing. Thanks for inviting me to
the cabin in the woods. It's great to be here
and listen. I just wanted to say, you know, we
just got back from Saying Disclosure Day and thought it
was really well done and I'm just like filled with
a lot of ideas and visuals and us seen it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did.
Speaker 2: I actually I saw it last Thursday and I did
last week's episode about it.
Speaker 4: I was less kind than you to it. I was disappointed.
Speaker 3: Oh weird, okay, okay, Like mixed reviews in.
Speaker 2: The community, it's really strange, Like I wasn't sure how
the UFO community would take it, and it seems people
it seems to be pretty split, like people seem to
be really digging or people seem to be a little
dirty on it.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, like the part of the remote viewing,
I thought that that was really well done.
Speaker 2: That is that's a cool that'sten. There's some cool bits
in it. I mean, there's some great visuals. I mean,
it moves pretty fast. It's just I won't redissect it.
But I'm glad you got to go see it and
enjoy it. Obviously everybody in the community is going to
want to go and see it.
Speaker 3: And you know, and being a Pennsylvania guy, I'm glad
that they mentioned Kecksburg. So you know, we're good.
Speaker 2: You know what is It's funny. The guest they had
on last week is also I think from Pennsylvania, Eric Mintel,
and he mentioned that he was happy to see Kecksburg
mentioned it.
Speaker 3: Yeah for sure, Yeah, there as.
Speaker 4: Well, which was good.
Speaker 2: We've got a number of people in the chat tonight,
so make sure anybody who wants to ask Max a
question do it because, like I said, he's a busy
man and he isn't always he isn't always available to
do the lives. So what else had you been up to?
I know you've just come out with with with your
your latest book, but what's we haven't changed recently, so
maybe feel me in what you've been up to before?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well what happened was I had there was an
article in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette on me and my
fascination for Chestnut Ridge and Western Pennsylvania. That was February
the eighth, and because of that, I got all these
invites to paranormal and bigfoot uh conferences. Like we just
went to the Forest County Bigfoot Festival this past weekend,
which was great and a tiny little I mean, Forest
County is one of the smallest counties in Pennsylvania. It's
all forest and we were there in Marion Marionville. But yeah,
it was pretty cool. So it's a really good thing.
But so we're doing a bunch of conferences this summer.
But right now in the works is my latest book.
It's number ten and it's called The Scream of Haunted
House and there it is, and this will be published
by Hangar One Films Onhanger one. And this is a
deep dive into the demonic. You know, it's for ghost hunters,
and you know, a lot of religions and mythologies believe
in an afterlife, and we believe that we can communicate
with spirits and ghosts and demons and they with us,
and so it's all about that and so it's kind
of cool, but it should be published in the next
two or three months. It's in production, and I'm excited.
I think this is going to be going to be
a very uh you know, I think it's going to
be well received. But there it is. That was my
idea for a cover with the scream and the haunted house.
So it's very cool. Yeah, we'll see what happens. So,
and you're excited.
Speaker 4: You're so busy, you're always so busy.
Speaker 3: Well you know, I mean, why not, right, I mean so,
and look at you, look as talking so so but yeah,
this is the way, this is the way I want
to be and this is great. So, but you know,
the paranormal community has been so wonderful and receptive and supportive.
I can't say enough about you know, about the good
things you know, the people that I've met, and it's
all it's all Dean. You agree, we're on a journey.
We don't know the and that we don't know the destination.
But along the way you meet a lot of interesting
and fascinating people and you know, Guardian angels and all that,
and it's just it's just great. I mean, this is
what life's all about, you know, just that journey. So
you know that's what I'm doing, and I think that's
what you're doing too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're on we are on similar paths.
The people who haven't heard you on the show before.
And we'll just do this quickly and then we will
get into the book. Now, tell us about what led
you into the world of the paranormal and the weed
initially because you have a background now in psychology and
in journalism and other things. But what became your your motive,
what was the motive force that pushed you.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm an American baby boomer. You know, we
were born between nineteen forty six and nineteen sixty four.
We were the idea Let's generation. We had intact families.
Dad was working, moms stay at home. We were educated,
We had school values, church values, community values, family values.
I mean, it was all good.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 3: It was real good. So but as I was growing up,
we were fed a healthy diet of science fiction and
supernatural and horror, you know, with motion pictures, with twilight
zone and outer limits and you know, one step beyond.
I mean it was great stuff. And I don't know
how the rest of the world viewed it, but man,
it really knocked me on the head. I mean, I
love that stuff. I couldn't get enough of it. And
you know, and I always was an avid reader. Even
as a child. I would seek out science fiction books
that they actually had in the school library, which you know,
the you know, these creatures from another planet, you know
that bug like creatures. So I loved reading that stuff
and HG Else and jewels run and all that.
Speaker 1: That was.
Speaker 3: That was me. So you know, I've always had that
in my head. A lot of us boomers did. And
I'll tell you, I remember back in the day when
I was a kid, a plane flew over. I was like,
I was from Berwick, Pennsylvania, same town as Richard sharp Shaver.
But anyway, a plane was dropping leaflets about these flying
saucer motion pictures playing at the drive in. And you
can't do that now, but back in you know, the day,
you could. So I remember that vision. I remember that experience.
So anyway, it was all good, you know, uh, the
monsters of film, done film and done. You know, they
had the magazines that had all of the creatures and everything.
I mean, I just love that stuff. I couldn't get
enough of it, you know. So you know, so so
that's me and here I am now I'm writing about
it and just and I can't get enough about it,
you know, so and and again, I mean, you know
you say you know you and thank you. That was
a nice compliment that I'm staying busy. But I mean,
I I've been writing prolifically and I don't know what's
going on, but I mean it's almost like some uh
some unseen energies are being channeled through me with these
books because it's it's kind of easy, you know. I mean,
I'm I'm I'm just having so much fun writing and
getting published. So you know, wow, you know, and and
and it's all about finding your joy, you know, finding
you know, what you want to do. Yeah, there's Paranormal Apocalypse.
How it ends.
Speaker 4: I thought, well, let's let's lead into that.
Speaker 2: Tell us to give us a little bit of an
overview about the book, and then we'll slide into some
specific So it's a fascinating book, a fascinating idea too.
Speaker 3: Yeah it is. You know. I go to the to
the motion to the movies all the time, you know,
and I go to see horror movies. My wife won't
go with me, so a lot of times I'll be
the only one in the theater, you know, dead Center
listening to this, watching this and this movie. There's been
a lot of trailers about UH apocalyptic films, the end
of of times. You know, whether it's going to be
The Oh, the The Day After Tomorrow, or The Walking
Dead or The Road or you know, twenty eight Days whatever,
there's a lot of them, and there just seems to
be it seems to be in vogue. It seems to
be very trendy. And I was thinking about the way
it is here in the United States with our with
our the way the government is, with the different voices
with you know, we're sort of fractured or not coming together.
There's not a whole lot of voices of moderation. There's
these voices at either end of the spectrum, scream yelling
at each other. And I was just thinking that, you know,
these are some bad times here. So I was thinking
about that, and I was just talking about the apocalypse
and how it's going to end. So that was the
genesis of the book Paranormal Apocalypse. And I put together
a you know, a prototype and hanger one had their
illustrator to do that. But that's UH. An alien that's
a gray dressed as a grim reaper with a sigh
and the hour glass and all the skull So they
really went crazy with all the schools. But I mean,
I love it. I think that that looks so good,
and I mean a lot of people think it's one
of the best covers they've.
Speaker 4: Seen, so it's just strong cover.
Speaker 3: But basically that was it, you know. I mean, we're
living in certain times and there's a certain amount of
fear and apprehension and anxiety that goes along with that,
and that was again the catalyst for the book, and
you know, and that's why I wrote it.
Speaker 2: That's interesting because we started to talk about disclosure day
earlier on before we got into your book, and of
course talk of disclosure itself has you know, an apocalyptic
resonance to it, because apocalypse, of course can be destructive,
but apocalypse is really just a revelation.
Speaker 4: So in a way, if we got the.
Speaker 2: Full disclosure that Spielberg's talking about in that movie, or
that's hinted at constantly on the cover of Eve, major
you know newspapers these days, in major you know media
talk shows, it's no longer this kind of topic which
is swept to the side. If we got that disclosure,
that would be apocalypse. Even if it ended didn't end badly,
it would be this incredible revelatory moments.
Speaker 4: So do you deal with the ET thing much in
the book.
Speaker 3: Or with well, I I deal with the AI thing
in the book. But you know, when when you look
at the end, you look at the ways that people
could die, you know, whether it's going to be a
pandemic on a nuclear winner, you know, ah, you know,
some sort of a disease. And again, I mean, you know,
we have a need to be afraid with ebola and
a coronavirus coming back around this summer, and just a
whole lot of things. So there's a lot of reasons
to be apprehensive. And uh, and I talk about that
through the book. I start off with talking about HP. Lovecraft.
Speaker 2: All right, I was gonna ask you about that. I'm
fascinated with Lovecraft, and I love how you've brought him
into this. So, yeah, tell us a little bit about that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I'm a big fan of HP. Lovecraft. But Lovecraft,
more than anybody else, more than any theologian or scientist
or philosopher, was able to go and define our deepest
fear and he and he said that fear is the
most elemental of man's emotions, but fear of the unknown
is the most powerful. And that exactly is the driving
force of my book. That people are afraid, and because
of that fear, they do certain things. They follow crowds.
They don't use critical rational thinking, but they act sort
of like lemmings and they just follow the group, you know.
And again there's there's survival in groups. But also with
that group mentality, there's that group think where you start
to think just like that group. So you know, you're
sort of give giving up your identity and your autonomy
and you know, uh and following the other people. Again. Uh,
people do it for safety, they do it for survival.
But I think the rest of us don't do that.
We uh you know, we walk our own path, We
listen to our own our own drummer and and uh
and that's how I define myself. I mean, I don't
really need I mean I do have a crowd. Uh.
I do have a uh you know, a uh tribe
that I belong to. I have people that we share
the uh you know, the same values and everything. But
I think that I don't uh follow the you know,
these these groups and these trends. You know, I consider
myself more of a nonconformist than a conformist, and we
talk about a lot of that in the book.
Speaker 2: What one of the there's a fascinating I think it's
a concept you came up with for the book, and
that's apocalytic ore. Is that something you can in loightnous
a little bit about.
Speaker 3: Too, Yeah, I think that. You know, one way that
we deal with the with the fear of the apocalypse
is what I call apocalyptic all And what we do
is we look at it, we get through we through
a vicarious lens, you know, we look at that monster
under the bed or that creature in the in the closet.
And we do this through music. We do this from books.
We do it with song, and we're able to go
and look at the end times without that lens of fear.
And we do that because we do it vicariously, and
so we sort of turn it into a way to
control this sphere. Okay, And again it's just a great
example was in Los Angeles when they were doing the
underground hundreds of underground nuclear tests, you know, maybe seventy
five eighty five miles from Las Vegas, and then they
started to do them above ground. Now this is kind
of crazy, you know, and people didn't realize that, wait
a second, you're getting radiation and you're going to get sick.
You're gonna get leukemian cancer and everything else. But thanks steamboat.
But anyway, the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce realized that
they could make some money with this, and so what
they did they would have what's called nuclear tourism, and
they would find out when the above ground nukes were
going to go off, and they would invite people to
come there and they would bring their beer and their
lawn chairs and everything in their Hawaiian shirts and watch
these mushroom clouds. You know. It wasn't until later that
we realized that all these people in the Vada, in
Montana and Wyoming were getting leukemi and getting all these
radiation related illnesses. But this was big business. This was
you know, commercialized. They wanted people to enjoy the spectacle
of that mushroom cloud. They even took the lead dancer
from the i think the Tropicana and they turned her
into Miss Nuclear or whatever, you know. So she had
this lovely outfit and it looked like a nuclear explosion,
you know, with the with the chest and everything. So
she was one of the babes there that was promoting this.
But but that was crazy. That was crazy. And then
and then not only were they making money from this,
but then later on we realized that something was going on.
And you know, in that area, there were a lot
of cattle mutilations and one theory, I mean it was
either aliens or cults or whatever, but one theory was
it was the government. And I think Spielberg might have
done this in close encounters, but they were looking getting
cattle and just dissecting their organs just to take a
look at that and see the amount of radioactivity that
these animals had absorbed. That's one of the theories for
media mutilations. But again, it started with this nuclear tourism
that was prevalent there, and it was just amazing, you
know when I was reading about this that and you're
talking about hundreds of tests, you know, underground and above
ground testing. So you know, I made from from from
one of the most progressive countries in the world. You
know that we're doing this nonsense. This is crazy.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because Horace Smith who's a professor emeris of
astronomy and Physics at Michigan State University, also a good
friend of the show, and he's also a baby boomer,
he says, And he says, the apocalypse books and films
of my youth were almost all nuclear disasters, and that
ties into kind of the perspective that you're talking about
there right right.
Speaker 3: And you know, I've just finished watching I love to
watch the black and white ones, but I watched Panic
in the year zero. Raymond Land directed that, and what
happened there was a nuclear war and all these you know,
Los Angeles and Chicago, every every place is getting bombed.
And so what they did with this family took off
with their their trailer and they're taking off. They have guns,
and they're just trying to survive. They're just trying to survive.
And that's what it's about. I mean, all of these
apocalyptic films, like The Road, that's a great one. A
man and his son and a gun with a bullet
and he knows if he can't protect the sun at
the end, if the mutants are going to get him,
he has a bullet for his son. And that's the
way that's going to end. But I mean The World
by Carmack McCarthy is just such a wonderful apocalyptic film,
probably one of the best.
Speaker 2: But we've been imbued with that. I mean, it's funny.
I've only been watching the new iteration of the Planet
of the Apes movies with my daughter recently because she's
getting into big science fiction type movies. But the original,
of course Planet of the Apes, so I grew up
on when I was a kid, the chelt Heston equal
and as well as a sequel, sequel Beneath the Planet
of the Apes was all. It was all based on
this kind of you know nuclear war that had destroyed
the world and that's how the Apes took over. And
then in the second movie there's a few year of
another you know nuclear you know, detonation by the mutants
below the earth. So it seemed to infect every sci
fi movie, from the Giant Bug movies to you know,
cataclysmic type films too, things like Planet of the Apes.
This consciousness of the bomb seemed to be omnipresent from
the late forties, you know, up to I think it
was Bob Antona minute ago who mentioned the Day After
in nineteen eighty three, So we're looking at, you know,
forty years of cinema and TV shows and literature which
was just obsessed with nuclear annihilation, really.
Speaker 3: Right, and that hasn't gone away, you know, like it's
a very powerful genre. And you know, I think at
some point I'd love to write a book about the apocalypse, Like,
I mean, what would that be like, you know, the
nuclear winner. You're just there with maybe you and a
couple of other people, and you were trying to survive,
and that's all it is. You're just trying to survive.
You know. An interesting parallel, I believe, and I write
about this in Paranormal Acalypse, but it's the Grapes of
Wrath and here, so you had the oakis there and
it was a horrible environmental apocalypse. That's what it was.
I mean, people from places like Oklahoma and Kansas, the
Iowa they had to leave because there was it was
everything was just horrible. It wasn't apocalypse. And The Grapes
of Wrath by John Steinbeck was criticized by the Americans
for being pro communist, and it was criticized by the
Russians or the Soviet Union for being anti communist, and
all it was I think that there was there was
a key there. I'm saying, the very important that people
should take note of. And with the Grapes of Wrath,
it was again it was an apocalyptic theme. It was
people banding together to survive, and that was the key.
If you band together, you're stronger. There's there, there's strength
in numbers. And I think that maybe the powers to
be I don't know, but I think that some people
were afraid of that overriding message from the Grapes of
Wrath that you know, we don't want you to get
together and organize, We want you to stay afraid, be afraid,
be scared, you know, be by yourself.
Speaker 2: And it's interesting because you have another thing in the
book which looks at it from the other perspective, because sometimes,
of course banning together is a good thing, but then
there's I suppose cultic banning together, which can be a
dangerous thing. And you talk about Jonestown in the book.
Can you talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3: Natsu, Yeah, And Jonestown was actually, you know, personal to me.
Johnstown took place, I believe it was December of nineteen
seventy eight and I was in Wyoming. I was in
the state of Wyoming in a cabin in the woods,
and we were there for a little over a week.
But there was no television, radio, newspapers, there was nothing.
It was just nature, you know, and just me and
my girlfriend. And but anyway, we came out of the
woods and the first thing we heard was what happened
in Jonestown, a ritualistic suicide. Over nine hundred people killed themselves,
this was the initial story, you know, by drinking the
cyanide laced kool aid. And then we found out later
that a lot of them were either shot or forced
or forced to drink you know, this thing. But it
was a horrible, horrible thing, and people believed in Reverend Jones.
They believed him. He preached, he was a preacher, you know,
he he he would quote scripture and again he had
those people convinced that he was going to save them.
And again this was about uh, the threat. He said,
the world was going to end, there was going to
be a nuclear war, and the safest place would be
South America. This is something that he read in Reader's
Digest or Time magazine. And so he took his people
from from from Indiana to San Francisco to Guyana, promised them.
Uh uh paradise and here was horrible, I mean horrible
to grow things. It was there was there's bugs there. Uh.
He had them brainwashed. He had loudspeakers that talked about
Reverend Jones being a deity. He was just like Jesus Christ,
I mean, just a whole lot of things. He was
a wicked man, he was a perverted man. And at
the end, when everybody was drinking the kool aid, Uh,
Father Jones, Jim Jones, Dad Jones took the easy way
out and killed himself with a with a gun. So
that's how we found found him there. But again it's
a similar thing with the cults that these individuals are
very charismatic and they let you know that there's you know,
they try to separate you from the world and it's
us versus the world, and the world's a dangerous place
and I'm the only one that could go and keep safe.
And so this is the formula. And a lot of
these individuals, even like Charles Manson, you know, they use
the Bible, they quote scripture, you know, and it gives them,
you know, it just helps them to get a little
bit closer and more intimate to people. And that's exactly
what Jim Jones did. They they called that the American apocalypse,
but it was. And you look in retrospect, you look
back and say, how could people have done that? How
could they have given up their passports and their their
Social Security checks and all that given up to to
this this individual, this chrismatic leader. And that's what happened.
It was just the worst possible thing. Uh, you know,
just a horrible, horrible example. But it shows what cults
can do. It shows the the power, the power, the
influence that cult leaders have.
Speaker 4: Here.
Speaker 2: Millennial groups or cults often lean to millennial ideas at
the end of the world or the dating of it,
of an new age. Often we tend to think, because
of I guess Christian end times theology, we often tend
to think of belief in the end being primarily Judeo
Christian you know idea. But did did you find this
idea extending beyond Christian theology?
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, you know, there there's a there's
a whole ball of uh Judeo Christian Islamic tradition, you know,
and uh and uh and and it's it's important to
go and and point that out but you know, with
the end times. You know, Christians believe that you know
that you're gonna answer to Christ uh, that if you're saved,
that you go up in the rapture. If you're not,
you go into the pit and get a second chance. Uh.
Muslims believe that they'll be toning uh with Allah. So
I mean there's a lot of there's a lot of
religions that look at this. We talk about h eschatology.
The eschatologists talk about the end times, and they believe
that the apocalypse has either and again it's just which
door do you want to pick? So uh, and they
say that the apocalypse has either happened already, it's happening currently,
or it's going to happen right around the corner. So
you know, uh, people prepare for this. You know, some
people are anxious about this and they you know, they
suffer from you know, uh, death phobia.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: But but with the with the end times, we don't know,
you know, how the end is going to be. You know,
in in Christianity, we we know that that there'll be
the four horsemen of the apocalypse, and it's coded by
the colors. The white represents conquest, and depending on how
you interpret that, that could either be Jesus Christ or
could be the Antichrist coming. And so that's red would
be war, black is famine, and then the pale horse
of the green horse is the is death.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: It looks like the skin of the corpse. So you
have those four horsemen of the apocalypse that signal what's
going to happen. And then we had the Seven Seals
that has the angels singing and the you know, people
speaking in tongues and just a whole lot of other things.
So it's very symbolic. But you know, you know, Hal
Lindsay uh made a real big impact when he wrote
his book The Late Great Planet Earth, all about all
about revelations, all about you know, the last book in
the in the Bible. So you know, uh, it shows
that there's a lot of interest uh by people they
want to know about this, and you wouldn't think that, uh.
I mean it was so huge that the book was,
you know, just reprinted so many times. There was a
made for TV motion picture and then there was an
actual motion picture on the Late Great Planet Earth. It
was huge. It was commercially successful, and it.
Speaker 2: Was when I was a kid it was on everybody's bookshelf.
My parents had a copy on the bookshelf. It was
like Charots of the Gods. Actually, it was the book
that you saw whenever you looked at a seventies bookshelf.
When he went into somebody's house, you would see a
copy of the late Great Planet Earth.
Speaker 4: You would see a copy of Cherish of the Gods.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, and that's interesting because von Donakan went
into the past, you know, looking at this connection with
the aliens, and how Lindsay went into the future looking
at the apocalypse. It's interesting these two individuals were able
to go and deal and successfully, you know, address the
past and the future. And it also shows that we
had an interest that we have a fascination in that.
You know, we all want to know that.
Speaker 2: Bob Antone, who's who's married to he is married to
a Native American, says Lakota. It's the return of the
white buffalo calf woman. That's their end times.
Speaker 4: The olog.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Native Americans. You know that their tradition and
mythology and philosophies are just so interesting just you know,
I can't say enough about that. And but again, just
such a wonderful, beautiful religion.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: We know a little bit about that from the coastal
peoples of British Columbia. When we talk about Bigfoot and Sasquatch,
you know, they always spoke of uh sasquatch being a protector, uh,
you know, the prector of the environment. You know that
it was a sacred thing to to witness a Sasquatch
and all that. But yeah, the Native American traditions are
just filled with a lot of things like, you know,
good versus evil, you know, which is the whole thing.
I mean, they're they're I think that they're probably like
most other cultures, you know, uh you know, uh look
at the world like that. What's interesting I find in Christianity,
you know, it's pretty much like good or bad. It's
good or evil.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 3: But when you talk to people that are Wickans or
they're Pagans, they look at these dark forces and they
believe that we're surrounded by dark forces, that they are
part of us and we need to co exist with them.
Whereas in Western uh or I should say Western Christianity,
you know, we need to go and uh uh destroy
that those dark forces, you know, and it's not the
way that uh Wickans or pagans uh, you know, think
about it. I know, with with Wickans, if these dark
forces don't cooperate, if they can't coexist, then they have
a right of banishment where they can get rid of them.
I would imagine similar to the Catholic right of exorcism,
you know, where they could banish the evil. But it's
interesting how there's so many similarities.
Speaker 2: You know, in the Norse traditions, they had the Twilight
of the Gods, that God are dammering like, there was
this idea of an end times where you know, there
would be a complete destruction and a type of rebirth.
But I've also heard people suggest that maybe some Christian
theology had had had impacted some Norse belief systems as well.
But I know that that's that's debated, but I do
think that it's it's something which perhaps just as every
you know, as every cosmology has a beginning, there's also
an eschatological urge that you were saying before to find
an end. So is that something you think kind of
underpins just our nature that we want a story with
a beginning and an end. Is that kind of does
that drive our drive our interest in this as well.
Speaker 3: Well, in a sense it does. But you know, a human,
the human psyche, we need order, we need stability, we
need homeostasis, we need everything to be in place. And
when we think about uh, looking to the stars, even
with disclosure day, you know, we want to find something,
you know, we want to believe in something. We want
to believe that there's you. And how many times have
you heard the thing that you know, there's so many
millions or billions of stars out there that there has
to be life on one of those, you know, I mean, God,
if we if I hear that again, but it's it's true,
it's true. But you know, I think that we need
to find answers. We have to. We we are always
searching for meeting and that's probably how that paradolia comes
into effect. You know, we see things like you look
into the at the clouds and you can always figure
something out. You can see a cloud that looks like
something that's recognizable, and that's paradolia. You know, we look
at things and we either see drones or lying saucers,
or we see cryptids because we have to we have
to fill in the blank. We have to see something.
So if it's not there. We conjure it up. We
there's a term called uh confabulation, and you make stuff up,
you know, like let's let's say, for example, that you're
a high uh telephone worker and you get zapped and
all of a sudden there's a gap there in your space. Well,
your psyche, your brain will go and figure something out
to complete that. So you'll confabulate, You'll make up something.
Maybe you know that a flying saucer abducted you and
took you and you were probe whatever, whatever, whatever you
want to put in there. But that's what people do,
and it's uh, we we don't know a lot of times.
I mean with the confabulation, I mean, it's just so realistic.
People can feel it. They can you know, they've they've
experienced it, so it's part of them. But I think again,
to answer your question, U long winded way, I think
that we need to find order, We need to establish order,
We need to get answers even you know, the most
the biggest debate right now that other than Disclosure Day
is the Patterson Gimlin film. So here you had this
guy that he was working with this woman at the university.
Her father had a forty second clip that looked like
it was Patterson and Gimlin. We're doing a preview. They
were doing a trial run of the actual nineteen sixty
seven Patty. You know that fifty nine second film clip.
And you know, the whole Bigfoot community is sort of
like up in arms. I mean, it's like a civil war.
You know, a lot of us refuse to believe that
it's a hoax because it's the only thing we have.
You know that Bigfoot exists, so here it is. And
now you had this other thing, and I think that
camp is split. But in both cases, here's the thing.
You have the nineteen sixty seven Patterson Gimlin film. That's
all you have. You don't have any evidence, you don't
have any footprints, anything else. All you have is that
is that that video, that film, And the same thing
with this new twenty twenty sixth one with the that
they claim was a you know, a dress rehearsal for
the real thing. That's all you have. Now, you know,
the guy that the film director, I think his name
was Evans, Mark Evans, was able to go and get
Patterson's son to admit, to confess that it was a hoax. Right,
But again, one person and one film. That's just one person.
So I'm not convinced. And again that's all.
Speaker 2: We're skeptical with this as well. I thought the footage
was a hoax for a long time.
Speaker 3: So yeah, the original one, Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Think Patterson Gimlin was. I think it was a hoax.
I thought of that for a long time. I think
Bob Eronomous was probably the man in suits. I find
his testimony convincing, and I when I was a kid,
I wanted to Patterson GIVELN to be real, and I
thought it was. But when I look at it, I
can't see what believers see.
Speaker 4: Like I literally hear.
Speaker 2: People say you can see the muscles move here, and
I'm like, no, I can see what might be foam
under there or lights shot.
Speaker 4: I can't see you, so that might be paradolia there.
Speaker 2: But again I think this is people with different belief
systems attacking the thing from different perspectives. I do have
a question from you from the Wonderful for you, from
the Wonderful Horace Smith. He says, does social media give
more uniformity to modern apocalypse cults than was the case
decades ago?
Speaker 4: Or does it do the reverse? Maybe what do you.
Speaker 3: Think does it give more uniformity? What do we mean
by uniformity give me?
Speaker 2: Well, I'm guessing because social I think what Horace is saying.
And if I'm wrong, correct me, Horace. I think he's
saying because probably social media has a broader throw, lots
of people have access to it today, Then I'm guessing.
Like fifty sixty, seventy years ago, a cult was just
discribed distributing its materials.
Speaker 4: Here another cult was distributing its.
Speaker 2: Material Yeah, the social media allowed to be some consensus
about apocalyptic ideas or is it still over the place?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think what's happening with social media or things
like a couple of years ago November, Uh, it was
the anniversary of President Kennedy's assassination and there was some
internet thing where they were encouraging these people to go
down to Dallas to see President John Kennedy being manifested.
He would reappear, and also John Kennedy Junior would reappear.
Young people, uh, millennials and Generation Z for the most part,
were depleting their their banking account, their checking account and
going down there, flying down to Dallas to see this thing.
It was it was a ruse, it was a scam,
it was a hoax. But yet they believe this, and
it was on the Internet, and there there's something there
about connecting with like minded people, like minded values, et cetera.
Speaker 2: So remember the attacking area fifty one or the rating
area fifty one.
Speaker 4: Thing was like that as well.
Speaker 2: Became terribly popular because it was like an Internet name
and everybody. They would have had that response prior to
the Internet if somebody tried to.
Speaker 3: Do it current correct, But either way, whether it's today
with today's technology and the media, or if it was
yesterday when you had word of mouth and everything. I mean,
fear is fear and people are people. Nothing has changed.
Maybe the technology has changed, but people haven't changed. You know,
we're the same we are now as we were two
hundred years ago. We think the same emotions, same everything.
Nothing nothing has changed other than maybe politics and fashion
and technology, but human beings stayed the same.
Speaker 2: Apocalypticism or millennialism or the belief in the end can
be exciting as well. I'm going to just tell a
little personal and don I'm going to segue streat in
a question for you which it's related.
Speaker 4: When I was a kid.
Speaker 2: I remember having stolen one of my father's Playboys, as
I guess you do when you're a boy, and there
was an article in there, and believe it or not,
I did like the articles as well. There was an
article in there which I don't even know if you
get in a playboy today, I don't read it anymore.
So I don't know. I'm not that I ever really
read it except when I was a kid, so in
my dad's issues, but there was an article an author
had done what would be the best ten weapons or
something ive an a Mega man situation happened, literally referenced
the Amiga Man, the Great Charlton Hester movie, and so
they had, you know, this rifle and this sling shot
and handgun and this you know, crossbow and whatever. But
that obviously becomes exciting. Then when you're a boy or
even perhaps a young man, you're reading were what would
I have if the end game? And that's half the
attraction of the whole zombie thing. I think is, well,
how would I fight off the zombie hordes? But you
talk about an earlier version. Actually I think of the
Amiga Man because of course the Vincent Price vehicle, the
Last Man on Earth. Is the is really there? It's
They're both both based on.
Speaker 3: The Richard Matheson. Yeah, yeah, what is it?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: What's the name of that? I'm monstrous ithing? What is
that title of that book? Anyways? Also the.
Speaker 2: No No No, that's another one which Will Smith is
also ironically because Will Smith.
Speaker 4: Was in the what is the name? I'm going to
find right now?
Speaker 2: Well, you well, you can talk about the actual book
and of the movie. I'll find the the Matheson the Methson.
Speaker 3: I should I should know that I'm blocking, but.
Speaker 4: I do know it, but I've forgotten right now.
Speaker 3: So The Last Man on Earth was a American Italian
motion picture was black and white. I think it's one
of the best apocalyptic films I've seen. It's it's it's
just works. Vincent Price played the part of a doctor.
And what happens is there was some sort of a
plague and these people, these human beings, revert into cannibalistic vampires,
and so his wife is one of them.
Speaker 4: But and horror found the book just as I, well,
he put it up and I just.
Speaker 3: So. So he goes around with the state killing all
these people. And at the end, though Vincent Price ends
up in a church and he gets stabbed in the side,
almost christ like, and as he's dying there, he's yelling
at these vampires, at these zombies. He calls them freaks.
He goes, you're freaks. And he dies at like a man.
He's proud that he's a man. He's proud that, you know,
to die defending you know, human human kind. And and
then I talk a little bit about humans versus animals
in the book, and I talk about, you know, we
are different than animals because we have more DNA, and
more is better. And with more DNA it gives us
more cognition and gives us more spirituality. Those are the
two things we have going for us. And you know
what I do when I do some lectures, you know,
some programs surrounding my books, somebody will always raise their
hand and say, well, you know, animals can make tools,
and you know dolphins can communicate all this, And that's true,
they do, and animals can do some wonderful things. But
you know, they don't drive cars, and they don't go
to the moon, and they don't they haven't. They don't
dominate the earth like human beings, do you know, with
which not all of it is a good thing, but
I mean humans have more. And you know, and what's
interesting as well is that, you know, being different than animals,
we still share ninety eight percent of our DNA with
gorillas and chimpanzees. So so ninety eight percent. So the two
percent represents you know, the cognition and the spirituality. That's
what makes us different, right.
Speaker 2: I think we share a lot about I think even
with like, I don't know, like a horse, we share
an incredible amount of DNA as well. I think people
often use, you know, an evolutionist too often use the
similarity to say, well, that's what we're related to. But
then you know, we also share it with all kinds.
You know, there's an amount of shared across species.
Speaker 3: And just and just if I could just throw my
two cents about evolution, you know, you know, there's no
missing link. And we didn't come from apes. There was
a single what they call that, the single person, the
single person that that man and ape came from. And
then the apes evolved successfully and a little bit later
we evolved. Uh, and we had Homo sapiens and Neanderthal
you know, walking the earth together. As a matter of fact,
some of us still have Neanderthal DNA, like maybe as
much as two to four percent of us, so.
Speaker 4: They probably would have, you know, into breeding. I mean,
I'm suspicious. I think evolution is probably on its last legs.
Speaker 2: I think in one hundred years it will be it'll
be a science which is thrown overboard.
Speaker 4: I think the.
Speaker 2: Paradigm's closer to collapse all the time. Actually, I think
there's too many things that the paradigm no longer addresses.
Speaker 4: But that's a that's another show anywhere.
Speaker 2: And also I'm a forty and so I don't trust
scientific paradigms at all.
Speaker 3: Knowing the end is closer than someone realized.
Speaker 2: No, no, I mean I think the end of the
paradigm of evolution is close, and not necessarily the end
of the world. I think we I think evolution is
a science as a parrot, as the major scientific paradigm
construct to explain, you know, the development of the species,
the origin of the species. I think it will fall away.
I think already things like intelligent design, and there's all
kinds of different issues which I think are beating into it,
and I think I don't I don't think it'll maintain
the hegemony that it's had now for you know, over
a century.
Speaker 4: I don't think.
Speaker 2: I think already it's starting to lose some of the steam,
and I think in one hundred years it won't.
Speaker 3: Be They they do say that evolution is messy, that
it's not linear. It goes all over the place. You know,
when you think you have a figured out, I mean
something with some anomaly, some outlier happens.
Speaker 2: I think, I think there's I think there's a micro evolution.
I just don't think there's you know, or I just
don't think there's macro evolution, like I think you can
see that if you breed dogs, you.
Speaker 4: Know what I mean, if you.
Speaker 2: Clearly dogs have been genetically, you know, tampered with by
us to have certain traits.
Speaker 4: And you can do this with horses and all kinds
of things.
Speaker 2: But that's it's I think it's a different thing to
say that there there is common traits within a specific
species or subspecies or whatever the scientific term is, to
say that, you know, all life came from a single
you know, spark in a swamp once upon a time.
Speaker 3: Or a month.
Speaker 2: I think so, I think there are aspects of it
which will remain. I'm sure there's all kinds of interesting
mop up works to do to see how people, you know,
animals of the same genus or whatever it is, how
they came to be. But I think the broader concepts
of evolution, which has become almost a religion and to itself,
the idea that you know, life comes out of, you know,
a chemical reaction in a puddle. I think that that
type of evolutionary idea is becoming less and less sustainable
the more the more we find out about what. But again,
I'm not a scientist and I'm a forty and so
I suspect them. I don't respect a whole lot of
science period. Talk about the drone thing a little bit
because that ties into the whole kind of UFO apocalyptism,
like the drone panic which we had back in twenty
twenty four, which I made.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's true, And it was a type of panic.
I mean it started around Halloween and a reporter from
New Jersey started to report all these drones flying over
in New Jersey and it started to get out of hand.
They were banning aircraft and certain certain airports. It was
getting really kind of crazy, people getting spooked, and then
you started to get every I think there was a
bit of paradolia too, because every time everybody would look
up into the sky, they would see drones, they would
see something, and we didn't know what was happening. Biden,
the Biden administration, his guide doing the talking points, was
not able to go and satisfy me with his explanation.
Donald Trump, who was a nominee, really should have kept
his mouth shut, but he was saying that that the
government knew something and there was a conspiracy of silence.
They're not sharing this with the people. So that elevated
this to another thing. A manufacture of drones claimed that
Ukrainian terrorists took a nuclear bomb and brought it to
New Jersey, and the military, American military was sending drones
over there to seek out that that signature, that heat signature.
A woman of female, a representative from South Carolina who's
on the UFO committee, claimed that these were extraterrestrial in nature.
So you had all of these things and at the
end there was no conclusion. There was no closure. A
government is supposed to keep us safe and to keep
us informed. We were not informed. So hold on to
that for a second. That was the drone history of
twenty twenty four, and go back to twenty twenty three
when we had the Chinese balloons as big as a
bus going over Alaska in the United States, and that
we shot down. Again, what was the closure there, what
was the end? What was the conclusion that our government
gave us? And I'm saying that there was nothing. So
twenty twenty four, twenty twenty three, and let's go back
to July of twenty twenty three where we had the
congressional UFO hearings. We had him in twenty four and
again in twenty twenty five. All three of those congressional
hearings with David Grush, with Luis Alexando, and I forget
the main person in the last one, but all they
said was the government knows something and isn't being transparent
and isn't sharing it with us. Grush said that he
knows where the bodies are and he knows where the
vehicles are. But again this was in twenty twenty three. Again,
he's had plenty of time to share that information with people. Again,
don't tell me about disclosure, and don't tell me about transparency,
because there isn't any. We're being bamboozled by the government
every which way you look. I mean, those congressional UFO hearings,
I mean, come on, you know, I mean they taught
us nothing. They taught us nothing. And here's the thing.
You know, you saw disclosure Day, and I think that
everything's comportant analyzed. I think that the only people that
get the information, the intel are those who have a
need to know, right, and that may not be me
and you.
Speaker 2: I think lots of people in the government don't have
a need to know as well. And I suspect that
it's interesting that you talked about the drone things and
disclosure because it's or the hearings and the things around
UFO disclosure, because so much of that drone conversation and
those Chinese big balloons which were shot down often there
were military like announcements and press releases where the UAP
and Ufo language were used inside. So it was almost
like it's a conspiratorial stretch to say that it was intentional,
but it certainly confused the waters whether it was intentional
or not. And then if you want to become conspiratorial,
you do have to ask how much is you beating
the drama of disclosure and the information where being kind
of drip fed. How much of that is just intentionally
to keep us, you know, getting excited about a UAP
reality which might be a realistic reality anyway. How much
might it not just be to to cover genuine secret
projects which are our own. How much might it just
be cover for other things? How much might it be
flexing to foreign powers to trying to convince the Chinese
that we really do have ET technology or something I
wouldn't even want to hasn't to guess the reason why
we might be being deceived, or the reason why disclosure
might be spun by certain agencies and forced in the
intelligence and both military and civilian agencies. But I do
think that it's being used for some reason above and
beyond actually telling us any truth about whether extraterrestrial life
is or isn't visiting. I just get the sense that it's,
you know, in something way, And you're right, we're not
We're not going to be the people who are going
to know the real info anyway. But it's a great spin.
It keeps the media cycle busy, and it keeps us looking,
you know, at this hand.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, well, you know, I think I
think too, you know, I think that yourthologies become a religion.
I mean, people want to believe, they want to believe
that they're out there. They want to believe that Roswell
on area fifty one, you know there are things happening
there and that were reverse engineering these craft and all
the other things.
Speaker 2: You know what that's interesting Just quickly about Disclosure Day,
because I don't know what we touched on this last
week and I've touched on it with you quickly, is
that the nineteen forty seven Roswell Day, right, is a
big deal in Disclosure Day because now it's a big
deal in the history of UFO's when we talk about it.
When Spielberg's film Last major UFO MA, I mean, there
was et But let's just go back to close encounters.
In the late seventies, Roswell hadn't re emerged yet as
something that she was on the tongue of everybody, because
uphology didn't talk about Roswell at all until the very
late seventies early eighties.
Speaker 3: I have two early eighties.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I have two.
Speaker 2: Different I have several different UFO encyclopedies, but I have
two which both came out in nineteen eighty one by
Margaret Sachs and one by Ronald's story on my Shelf
over there, and neither of I don't even think.
Speaker 4: Roswell's a footnote in there.
Speaker 2: They would have written it in seventy nine, published in
eighty and all of this. If you went forward to
nineteen ninety, Roswell would be, you know, the most well
known term in UFO war. So something happened certainly between
Disclosure Day and Close Encounters where the narrative changed, like
Spielberg's version of the UFO conspiracy in Close Encounters, isn't
that they really know what the hell's going on? Is
that they're trying to communicate and they think they're EAT's
and they're getting ready for an event. Disposure dates an
entirely different story. It's correct craft in forty seven. It's
the new UFO story, a UFO story that didn't exist
yet in the late nineteen seven.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I think the Roswell incident with who was
it Charles.
Speaker 2: Moore, William Moore and Charles Burlitz.
Speaker 3: Right, and thanks to Stanton Friedman ye he was in
the fild. Yeah, and I think that came out in
nineteen eighty. That was something like thirty years after Roswell.
So that's when we started to hear about a bit
of thirty years after the fact.
Speaker 4: And they were both intelligence assets.
Speaker 2: We know for a fact William Moore was an Air
Force intelligence asset because he said that the mof On
Symposium in nineteen eighty nine, I've been feeding you all
nonsense and spying on you for the US Air Force.
And we have US Air Force personnel who confirmed that,
like Richard Dodie confirms that William Moore worked for him.
And there's a lot of suspicion amongst, you know, a
number of people that Friedman was that Friedman was perhaps
military intelligence as well, including the head of his network.
Who doesn't want who who know? He doesn't want to
throw Freedman under the bus because Doug likes Freedman. But
Doug's told a story on my show that he received
a call from Stanton Friedman and on his caller ID
it was an Air Force base.
Speaker 3: Okay, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: What does that say? I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I reached out to him about the Philadelphia experiment
and he wrote a letter to back to me. So, well,
that's kind of cool.
Speaker 4: I've met Stanton Freedman, lovely man. But I suspect, like
a lot.
Speaker 2: Of people who were the heavy hitters in seventies and
eighties uthology connected with intem. Whether they were totally controlled
or not's another story, but they were certainly connected with
these agencies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I don't think Friedman gets the credit and
the respect that he needs. I mean, he did a
lot of the groundwork, you know, for the to uncover
Roswaldso you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, I mean, of course he and he and
who's his cohort I've forgotten the name now, not Friedman, Yeah,
it is, it's Friedman. Well, Friedman publishes the MJ twelve
documents in his m J twelve book, But it's William
Moore and Jamie shanderre save the MJ twelve documents. So again,
these people who were in cahoots with with with with Richard.
Speaker 4: Dody kind of this is very small cadre.
Speaker 2: Of people, including Friedman, particularly William Moore, are notably Richard
Dody and along along with just a few others who
really invented what now is popularized in movies like Disclosure Day.
The whole reason we think about the secret government in
the way we think about MJ twelve. And the whole
reason we think about Roswell, we think about Roswell, we
can literally trace that to.
Speaker 4: William Moore and a handful of other people. And that
makes me. And the fact that Williamore comes out in eighty.
Speaker 2: Nine the world's leading UFO convention, move On Symposium and
says listen, I'm an AFOSI assets. I fed you guys nonsense.
I've been spying on you for the air Force for
And the fact that the whole room erupted people were
screaming and yelling at him one moment saying.
Speaker 4: Let's get a fire hose and hose him off the stage.
Speaker 2: But the great irony to me is the UFO community
after that didn't go well. Maybe everything that Moore told
us Roswell MJ twelve, all these other stories which came
directly from.
Speaker 4: More, maybe maybe we need to rethink that as our
real They didn't.
Speaker 2: They cursed only more. They still curse Richard Dodie, They
curse the people who invented all of this stuff, but
they still believe all the stuff that they invented. It's
to me, it's crazy. It's a kind of this cognitive dissonance.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, But like I said, I think that
whole Roswell thing is a religion, just like just like Bigfoot.
We don't we can't let old of it, you know,
and that's okay, you know. But again with the new film, uh,
you know, the camps or divided people are just talking
and it's good, you know, it's you know, but I
think if we could get more science, get more evidence,
than we're good. But it's just very difficult to get that.
Speaker 2: So well, I love the way that you approach all
of this stuff as we get near to the end.
Is there anything else you wanted to uh to mention
regarding Paranormal Apocalypse? I have the link to where people
can get it directly from Hango one in the show,
which they can also get it from Amazon. But is
there anything else you want to tell people?
Speaker 4: What people know?
Speaker 3: Now? I think that you know a lot of us
as HP Lovecraft indicating a lot of us are have
the sphere of the unknown. And in my book, I
tell people, you know, be your own, your own person,
you know, you know, find your identity, get grounded, uh
you know, uh, use rational thought and don't don't follow
the leaders. Don't follow the lemmings because you don't need
to do that. I mean, there's a there's there's no
there's nothing righteous about doing that. I mean, be your
own person and and uh and and go through this
this life, uh without fear. I think that's the message
in Paranormal Apocalypse. But you know, just there's just too
many people that are afraid of of the unknown. And
and I think with with knowledge and with with friends
and support, you know, you don't have to uh, you know,
live that fear. So I think that'd that'd be my message.
And that also the other thing again we mentioned this,
but my new book coming out by Hanker One is
The Scream of the Haunted House. I'm expecting that to
be out and maybe another two or three months and
we'll see how how that goes. But I'm excited about that,
and perhaps we can have a chat about that.
Speaker 4: That'd be good.
Speaker 2: It's been it's been quite sometimes since I've had you on,
so we can get you back sooner and talk about
the next.
Speaker 4: One, yeah, which would be great.
Speaker 2: Well, again, I've put the links to where people can
go to your website as well as where they can
get your book from Hangar one. Of course, they're all available.
All your books I think are available from Amazon as well,
so it's pretty easy to track Max's books down and
until Well, firstly, that was it was great having you
back on the show.
Speaker 4: I really interested.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's always great. Yeah. And also i just want
to tell your listeners that I'm originally from Berwick, Pennsylvania,
the same place as Richard Sharp Shaver, who was the
most fascinating individual from Berwick. And uh, you know who
is the you know, the protagonist and the Shaver Mystery,
so you know as you know.
Speaker 4: Indeed, and people you want to see my film The
Shaver Mystery.
Speaker 2: I haven't started talking about his next screening yet, but
the next screening I'm aware of is is last weekend
in jul at Ufo Days in Elmwota, Wisconsin, where I'll
be screening the short on the Saturday night at six
thirty pm. And I'll also be giving my Little Shaver
Mystery Part two talk and presentation. So if people are
around for I haven't even prepared anything to show, normally
have a little visual shows, but that will be for
people who are listening already. It will be the last
I think it's the last Saturday. Maybe it's the twenty fourth, No, no, no, sorry,
that would be the twenty fifth, the twenty fifth of July.
But anyway, Max, it was great, great chatting to you.
Thanks so much for coming on mate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks Dan. Continued success with your show Ed with
the Shaver Mystery. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4: Well man.
Speaker 2: I love your books and I hope you keep writing
them because I'm looking forward to talking to you about
more and until I talk to you again, Max, which
will be when your next book drops, I hope, and
until I talk to everybody else out there, which will
be Same Weird time, which is nine pm Central Thursday,
Same Weird network, the radio network.
Speaker 4: Please keep it weird.
Speaker 3: Keep it weird.
Speaker 1: M m hm