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Speaker 3: You are now listening to True Murder The most Shocking
Speaker 3: Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have
Speaker 3: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 3: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 3: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 3: journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 5: Good evening. This is your host Dan Zupanski for the
Speaker 5: program True Murder, The most Shocking Killers in True Crime
Speaker 5: History and the authors that have written about them. Never
Speaker 5: trust the chained captive. That was one one of the
Speaker 5: rules David Parker Ray posted on the isolated property where
Speaker 5: he and his girlfriend Cynthia Hendy lived near New Mexico's
Speaker 5: Elephant Butt Lake. They called their windowless trailer the toy Box,
Speaker 5: and over the years they lured countless young women into
Speaker 5: its chamber of unspeakable pain and horror and filmed every moment.
Speaker 5: A satanist, Ray was the center of a web of saddism, sex, slavery,
Speaker 5: and murder authorities suspect he'd murdered more than sixty women.
Speaker 5: In October twenty eleven, a flood of tips led to
Speaker 5: a renewed search for the remains of more possible victims.
Speaker 5: This updated edition reveals all the details, along with the
Speaker 5: inside story on the controversial movie based on these unforgettable events.
Speaker 5: The book we're featuring this evening as a true crime classic,
Speaker 5: it is Slow Death by the late great Jim Fielder,
Speaker 5: with my special guest journalist and Pinnacle Offe author Sheila Johnson.
Speaker 5: Welcome back to the program, Sheila Johnson, and thank you
Speaker 5: for agreeing to this interview.
Speaker 6: Oh, thank you. It's always a pleasure to come and
Speaker 6: talk to you, and I'm especially pleased to get to
Speaker 6: talk about the update on this book. This was the
Speaker 6: first Pinnacle book I ever read before my own first
Speaker 6: book was published, and I was so impressed and so
Speaker 6: just completely taken aback by what David Parker Ray had done.
Speaker 5: I was.
Speaker 6: It made a tremendous impression on me.
Speaker 5: Now you say this was the first Pinnacle true crime
Speaker 5: book that you had had read, was there any influence
Speaker 5: with Again, a lot of authors sort of stay away
Speaker 5: from the more horrific stories, and David Parker Ray is
Speaker 5: one of those that not for the faint of heart
Speaker 5: at all, and one of the most horrific and the
Speaker 5: most horrifying stories. It was it a little bit of
Speaker 5: a was it any any Was this book any influence
Speaker 5: to you on the kinds of subject matters, of the
Speaker 5: kinds of stories that you chose to cover in your
Speaker 5: own books?
Speaker 6: Well, not so much that it was a tremendous influence
Speaker 6: on me, because of the quality of work that he did.
Speaker 6: He was just a meticulous interviewer and researcher, and I
Speaker 6: was really impressed by that. From my own books, I've
Speaker 6: had to sort of deal with what was in my
Speaker 6: own backyard more than you know, more national type stories,
Speaker 6: So I didn't choose things for that reason so much.
Speaker 6: Of course I have. I have run up on some
Speaker 6: humdingers right here in south end of the country. But
Speaker 6: I think the major influence that this book had we
Speaker 6: were just seeing that he was able to tell this
Speaker 6: story in such a thorough and detailed manner, and I
Speaker 6: felt like it was a story that really needed to
Speaker 6: be told. I think there's an awful lot of people
Speaker 6: out there that don't even realize that people like David
Speaker 6: Parker Ray really exist until something blows up. And if
Speaker 6: he hadn't gotten caught, he would he would probably have
Speaker 6: gone on for no telling how many more victims with
Speaker 6: his torture and murdering and things. So, you know, I think,
Speaker 6: I just think this is a very worthwhile book for
Speaker 6: anybody to read that has an interest in true crime.
Speaker 6: If they have not read it, they absolutely need to.
Speaker 6: And if they didn't read it, or if they did
Speaker 6: read it in the past, they needed to check out
Speaker 6: this update because there's just an incredible amount of things
Speaker 6: that have happened with this story since this book was written.
Speaker 5: Right now. Yeah, I I'm very interested in myself and
Speaker 5: hearing about the movie because I had no idea this
Speaker 5: controversial movie based on the on the story itself too so,
Speaker 5: And just for those people that are listening to when
Speaker 5: did Jim Fielder pass away, I'm not.
Speaker 6: Sure exactly when. I believe it was probably about twenty
Speaker 6: ten or eleven, because he did some investigation discovery programs
Speaker 6: in two thousand and eight. In two thousand and nine,
Speaker 6: and I didn't know that he had passed away until
Speaker 6: my editor called me and asked me if I would
Speaker 6: be interested in updating the book.
Speaker 5: Now, tell us about that it was that Mikela Hamilton
Speaker 5: and if yeah, tell us about that conversation. And because
Speaker 5: we already know that this was this is the first
Speaker 5: Pinnacle that you read, and of course that it influenced
Speaker 5: you in terms of the investigative journalism that he practiced
Speaker 5: with this, the meticulous detail and covering all the bases
Speaker 5: and doing all the extensive interviews. Tell us about the
Speaker 5: conversation with Mikeel Hamilton from Kensington Press in Temacle Imprint.
Speaker 6: Well, she called me one day and asked if I
Speaker 6: would be interested in writing an update for this book,
Speaker 6: because I think it was first published in two thousand
Speaker 6: and three, and she said that she knew from conversations
Speaker 6: with mister Fieldy that quite a bit had happened. And
Speaker 6: I said, well, sure, you know, let me get on
Speaker 6: the internet and look around a little bit and see
Speaker 6: what it is and see, you know about how big
Speaker 6: this update's going to be. And I was just astounded
Speaker 6: when I saw how many different developments there had been
Speaker 6: in this case. I mean, David Parker Ray died in
Speaker 6: two thousand and two in prison, and he was still
Speaker 6: out there or you might could consider that he was
Speaker 6: out there pulling everybody strings, just like a puppet master,
Speaker 6: because all these things kept happening to people who he
Speaker 6: had been involved with, his victims, various and southern, other
Speaker 6: people that he dealt with, and it was like he
Speaker 6: was still there and still just as sick and evil
Speaker 6: and a bad as he ever was. And I immediately
Speaker 6: got back with her and said, oh goodness, yes, I'll
Speaker 6: write the update and I'll let you know how long
Speaker 6: it'll be as I go. And I ended up with
Speaker 6: I think over sixty pages just of updated material. There
Speaker 6: were so many different topics, but.
Speaker 5: Uh, incredible. It s also Fielder had had continued with
Speaker 5: the investigation all.
Speaker 6: These years, and he was planning on writing the update himself,
Speaker 6: and evidently he died before he could get it done.
Speaker 6: And mm there were some of the things that had
Speaker 6: happened that had even taken place after he died, some
Speaker 6: of the largest developments in the case. And I was
Speaker 6: just really I considered it an honor to be asked
Speaker 6: to do it because it was one of their best,
Speaker 6: biggest titles that they had ever had. It was just
Speaker 6: such an amazing book. And then to get the privilege
Speaker 6: ab up date, and I was just really pleased.
Speaker 5: Well, if you, if you could be so kind, give
Speaker 5: us a give our audience for those that don't know
Speaker 5: this incredible story or don't know this incredible story well enough,
Speaker 5: tell us give us a synopsis of the story itself,
Speaker 5: what the David Parker Ray and the accomplices, because amazingly
Speaker 5: there's accomplices in this, and then tell us about the updates.
Speaker 5: I think that's about the only that's the best way
Speaker 5: I think to explain this is give us the nature
Speaker 5: of the evil of David Parker Ray and his various accomplices,
Speaker 5: and then we could talk about Cynthia Vigil as well
Speaker 5: that led to the discovery of this entire hell on
Speaker 5: earth here, and then tell us about with investigation and
Speaker 5: what was uncovered, even like you say, even after Jim
Speaker 5: had passed away and these latest and greatest developments from
Speaker 5: David Parker Ray.
Speaker 6: Okay, okay, well, slow death is his story and all
Speaker 6: the other people that were sort of operating on the
Speaker 6: fringes of his just really sick and perverted group, including
Speaker 6: his daughter. Her name was Jesse Ray, and she would
Speaker 6: get out and help him lure young girls on some
Speaker 6: occasions to come to what they called the toy box.
Speaker 6: It was this one hundred thousand dollars custom built trailer
Speaker 6: that he had fixed up in just a total torture chamber.
Speaker 6: It had every kind of torture device you could ever imagine,
Speaker 6: hanging on the walls that had a led the covered
Speaker 6: bench that he would strap people down to well women.
Speaker 6: He never tortured a man as far as I was
Speaker 6: able to find out. It had whips and chains, pulleys
Speaker 6: and all kinds of straps and clamps and spreader bars
Speaker 6: and surgical blades and saws. And he had a camcorder
Speaker 6: that sat right there at the end of his exam table,
Speaker 6: as he referred to it, and he had it set
Speaker 6: up to make videos of his victims while he was
Speaker 6: torturing him. And then he had a monitor up above
Speaker 6: that table so that they would have to watch what
Speaker 6: was being done to them. And there's just there's no
Speaker 6: describing the terrible things that he would do. And there's
Speaker 6: several instances here in the book where they transcribed these long,
Speaker 6: long tapes that he had made for his victims, and
Speaker 6: he would play that for them, telling them what was
Speaker 6: gonna happen to him while they were strapped down there
Speaker 6: in the toy botts. And another thing he had in
Speaker 6: there was a like a carpet lined casket that he
Speaker 6: would put his victims in between torture sessions and have
Speaker 6: him in there in the dark and and terrified, and
Speaker 6: that I guess was as bad a torture as anything
Speaker 6: he could have come up with. And it has been
Speaker 6: estimated by what he has said in his journals that
Speaker 6: the FBI was able to get hold of. And luckily
Speaker 6: he kept journals because that helped him locate some other
Speaker 6: things as long as they went. But he said in
Speaker 6: those journals that he had killed around forty women, and
Speaker 6: course they've never found nearly as much evidence of him
Speaker 6: doing that, but they think that it's just because he
Speaker 6: was a very good at hiding bodies. And he was
Speaker 6: finally caught when, uh, the Cynthia that you mentioned, he
Speaker 6: had kept her for about three days and just with
Speaker 6: a dog collar around her neck and a long chain,
Speaker 6: and she managed to get hold of an ice pick
Speaker 6: and stab his girlfriend and get loose and went running
Speaker 6: down the roads dark naked except for a chain and
Speaker 6: a and a collar and managed to get help. And
Speaker 6: if it had not been for that, he would have
Speaker 6: gone right on and wouldn't have been caught. And there
Speaker 6: was a lot of speculation that he was also using
Speaker 6: amnesia inducing drugs that he was giving to a lot
Speaker 6: of these women, and that he had a lot more
Speaker 6: victims out there that he had drugged to the point
Speaker 6: that they didn't even realize they had been assaulted and
Speaker 6: tortured like that. So, you know, there's always been a
Speaker 6: big call that's gone up for anybody that remembers anything
Speaker 6: to please, you know, come to the authorities. But we'll
Speaker 6: never really know the truth about his victims because you know,
Speaker 6: there's nobody there to tell it. Now he's he's dead, and.
Speaker 5: But there was videotapes. What's incredible is that right in
Speaker 5: the very beginning of the book describes this is in
Speaker 5: the prologue to the original Slow Death. If I could,
Speaker 5: I'd like to read this because this is the horror
Speaker 5: of David Parker Ray. Smoke was pouring out from between
Speaker 5: her legs the sacred place for God had intended for
Speaker 5: this young woman to give birth to a baby someday.
Speaker 5: Eight Federal Bureau of Investigation FBI special agents watched the
Speaker 5: homemade videotape with a growing sense of horror crossing their
Speaker 5: somber faces. Their eyes follow the two people torturing the
Speaker 5: faces victims, David Parker Ray fifty nine and his girlfriend
Speaker 5: Cynthia Sincely Lee Hendy thirty nine. The criminals hovered over
Speaker 5: the naked woman and stuck a hot cattle prod inside
Speaker 5: her vagina, watching her body rith and pain. The agents
Speaker 5: kept their eyes on Ray and Handy. The federal investigators
Speaker 5: were sitting inside in eighteen eighty twenty foot wide cargo
Speaker 5: trailer where the crime had taken place. The trailer was
Speaker 5: parked on the edge of a bass road along the
Speaker 5: shoreline of the larger lake in New Mexico, Elephant but Lake.
Speaker 5: The partners in crime lived on the outskirts of a
Speaker 5: small town called Truth or Consequences. Yeah, they go on
Speaker 5: from there. That's the kind of videotapes that were created
Speaker 5: at this toy box as well. Now tell us a
Speaker 5: little bit about the accomplices, accomplices, because there's his daughter,
Speaker 5: Jesse Ray, his girlfriend, and then another accomplice at some
Speaker 5: other point as well.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we had Dennis Ray Yancy, who was an accomplice
Speaker 6: of he is who actually went to prison for strangling
Speaker 6: a woman and said that Ray was watching and videotaping it.
Speaker 6: So Yancey went to prison for that, and he behaved
Speaker 6: himself well enough that he got paroled in not in
Speaker 6: twenty ten, but there was no approved place for him
Speaker 6: to go. The parole board didn't have any sort of
Speaker 6: place for him to go and live on parole that
Speaker 6: they would approve of.
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Speaker 6: So he had to go back and stay in jail
Speaker 6: for a while longer, and then when they finally came
Speaker 6: up with a place that was approved to move to,
Speaker 6: he's still on probation til two, two thousand fifteen, and
Speaker 6: he was the the main you know, accomplished that he
Speaker 6: had that actually committed a a murder that.
Speaker 2: They know of.
Speaker 6: Now it's possible that uh, Cindy Hendy might have also
Speaker 6: Cynthia Hendy, and uh she was in prison. I have
Speaker 6: not been able to find out if she's still in
Speaker 6: prison at this time or not, but she was for
Speaker 6: quite a while for I think Aiden and betting his
Speaker 6: crime against uh Synthia, Oh excuse me, Cynthia Vigil. But uh,
Speaker 6: there's one victim that I would like to recognize as
Speaker 6: a victim because technically she wasn't. But at the time
Speaker 6: when the FBI was first going in to that toy
Speaker 6: box and seeing everything that was in there and all
Speaker 6: the terrible devices he had invented, there was an FBI agent,
Speaker 6: special Agent Patricia Rust, who her job was to go
Speaker 6: in there and sketch all these different devices of his.
Speaker 6: And evidently that really really got to her because not
Speaker 6: too long after she had that assignment, she committed suicide.
Speaker 6: And I've always felt like that was just another victim
Speaker 6: of his right there.
Speaker 5: Absolutely I would like it because that, yeah, it must
Speaker 5: have been its very Jim captures that horror as well,
Speaker 5: that she goes home and then commits suicide just from
Speaker 5: I guess any shred of any humanity left after seeing
Speaker 5: witnessing that. So, yeah, it's a very touching part of
Speaker 5: the book. Now you say that you ah, there was
Speaker 5: a further investigation, and I'm I'm assuming that would be
Speaker 5: about other victims and maybe the location of other bodies
Speaker 5: or or maybe maybe not so tell us about some
Speaker 5: of the other developments that had occurred since this case
Speaker 5: and since his uh imprisonment and then death shortly after well.
Speaker 6: The major development. In two thousand eleven, the UH authorities
Speaker 6: reported that they had received some what they referred to
Speaker 6: as extremely credible information about a young girl whose name
Speaker 6: was Jill Troya and he had right had mentioned in
Speaker 6: his journal that he had UH taken an Oriental woman
Speaker 6: for a victim and had killed her. And this girl
Speaker 6: was Oriental, and the time frame fit the age that
Speaker 6: she was fit, and she was a a friend, she
Speaker 6: was dating his daughter, Jesse Wow, And the last time
Speaker 6: anybody saw Jill alive, she and Jesse had had a
Speaker 6: fight and Jesse called her daddy supposedly to come and
Speaker 6: pick her up at the bar club where they were
Speaker 6: in Truth or Consequences, and nobody ever saw this Jill again.
Speaker 6: She just disappeared without a trace. And that is what
Speaker 6: the tip was about that was received in twenty eleven,
Speaker 6: and as a result, there was just an enormous search
Speaker 6: effort that went on out there at Elephant b at Lake,
Speaker 6: and they worked on that for for weeks and got
Speaker 6: all sorts of other tips and information in. They found
Speaker 6: several things out there, and then they had some other
Speaker 6: people that gave 'em further information. There was a man
Speaker 6: that had used to deliver loads of concrete there to
Speaker 6: the park at Elephant Lake State Park where where Ray worked,
Speaker 6: and he would deliver the concrete there to Ray up
Speaker 6: in and out of the way area where nobody was around.
Speaker 6: He wouldn't let the guy watch what he was doing
Speaker 6: with it. He wouldn't let him get out of the
Speaker 6: truck up there, and what he was doing was putting
Speaker 6: it in some great, big, oversized, huge truck tires that
Speaker 6: this delivery man said were plenty big enough to hide
Speaker 6: a body in. And he got thinking after this came
Speaker 6: out about Jill Troya being missing, that uh Ray could
Speaker 6: have been hiding bodies in those tires all that time.
Speaker 6: He told him that they was getting them done to
Speaker 6: anchor down the marina, but they never made their way
Speaker 6: down there, so if they did, they want to another
Speaker 6: section of the lake. But that was one of the
Speaker 6: thi pieces of information that came in. And when word
Speaker 6: were spreading about the search for Jill Troy's remains or
Speaker 6: anything else can find, an Elpasso dentist called in and
Speaker 6: told him that he had been at the lake and
Speaker 6: the water was way down at that time because of
Speaker 6: the drought, further lower than it had been for a
Speaker 6: long time, and he found some human leg bones out
Speaker 6: there turned them in to the authorities. He found a
Speaker 6: choke chain collar that was found nearby there, and he
Speaker 6: found a blue T shirt that had been left there
Speaker 6: for some time, and they said those bones were so
Speaker 6: weathered that they were not confident that they'd ever be
Speaker 6: able to get any DNA information from them. But I
Speaker 6: think at the last update I had on it that
Speaker 6: they were still attempting to and they found a fake
Speaker 6: ID in the Ray's house and with a lot of
Speaker 6: other stuff.
Speaker 2: That he had.
Speaker 6: He was bad to keep souvenirs, and one of the
Speaker 6: things he found was an idea of a real pretty,
Speaker 6: dark haired woman, and they just immediately panicked, thinking that
Speaker 6: was a victim, and put out all sorts of feelers
Speaker 6: about that. But the woman showed up and you know,
Speaker 6: said it wasn't her, and she didn't know when she
Speaker 6: lost that idea or how he got hold of it
Speaker 6: or anything of the sort. I myself think that she
Speaker 6: probably let it get away from her, but with it
Speaker 6: being a fake, she wouldn't want to admit that it
Speaker 6: was not hers. And his last victim, Cynthia, the jail
Speaker 6: had overheard him and Cindy Hendy talking about other victims
Speaker 6: of his that had been given drugs and then let go,
Speaker 6: and she made a plea for people to come forward
Speaker 6: while they were conducting this search in twenty eleven. There
Speaker 6: she said, please, you know, if you have any information,
Speaker 6: or if you even think anything might have been done
Speaker 6: toe you, please come forward and and help solve these things.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 6: She was very very cooperative and to me also one
Speaker 6: of the the most interesting things. The FBI had collected
Speaker 6: all sorts of jewelry and and accessories and things of
Speaker 6: that nature out of raised trailer after he was arrested
Speaker 6: and they put thirty four pages of pictures on the
Speaker 6: FBI's website and they probably are still there. They had
Speaker 6: hundreds of photos of of things that he had taken.
Speaker 6: Also put it on Facebook, and I would encourage anybody
Speaker 6: that might happen to be listening that had any kind
Speaker 6: of a missing person in the Southwest back at that time,
Speaker 6: please get on there and look at those items, because
Speaker 6: some of them are just very cheapest little pieces of
Speaker 6: costume jewelry, and others are very obviously one of a
Speaker 6: kind and made pieces that could not be mistaken for
Speaker 6: anything else. And if you get a chance, you know,
Speaker 6: go on there and look at those things, because it's
Speaker 6: it's amazing the number of things that he camped and
Speaker 6: they were all women's items.
Speaker 5: Right, you pronounced the Cindy visual? How did you pronounce? Sorry, Vagil? Yes,
Speaker 5: you know what's interesting is how is the escape is described.
Speaker 5: I know you talked about it, but it was interesting
Speaker 5: is that that the David Parker Ray had left and
Speaker 5: he entrusted the uh Cindy Henry to to take care
Speaker 5: of of the captive. And there was some keys that
Speaker 5: were left and so she said that she she sort
Speaker 5: of maneuvered the table over with the keys. And then
Speaker 5: Henry came back into the room and was enraged that
Speaker 5: she was trying to escape and star beating her with
Speaker 5: a lamp. So she said she was still fighting for
Speaker 5: her life, but she still was trying the keys and
Speaker 5: finally got the key unlocked or the lock undone, and
Speaker 5: then continued to fight. And and then a box fell
Speaker 5: down and an ice pick fell out of the box.
Speaker 5: Very stab Yeah, and then escaped and then and then
Speaker 5: it was amazing what he captured was that, you know,
Speaker 5: this woman running through the trailer. Parker first to try
Speaker 5: to get into a car, but the woman was so
Speaker 5: frightened that would not let her get in the vehicle.
Speaker 5: And then she finally made it to this double white
Speaker 5: trailer and then a sympathetic woman and a man and
Speaker 5: and they listened to her pleas and uh and and
Speaker 5: and David Parker ran. His accomplice were about a block away,
Speaker 5: driving in a vehicle looking for.
Speaker 6: So they were looking. If she hadn't already gotten inside
Speaker 6: by the end, they would have picked her back up. Yeah,
Speaker 6: it's awful to think about.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the scores of victims that this woman, with
Speaker 5: her brave effort saved not only in her own life,
Speaker 5: but other people's lives, certainly, because there's no reason for
Speaker 5: him to stop. One thing that we haven't mentioned, and
Speaker 5: this is sort of rare in true crime, it really
Speaker 5: is that people allude to it in some stories. But
Speaker 5: this person claimed to be a Satanist and to operate
Speaker 5: sort of a coven, if that's the term, but with
Speaker 5: other a Satanist the members. Maybe you could tell us
Speaker 5: a little bit about that.
Speaker 6: Well. I think that he was doing that, not so
Speaker 6: much because he himself believed that he was a Satanist.
Speaker 6: I think he was doing that to lure people in,
Speaker 6: like this Dennis roy Nancy that was just a drifter
Speaker 6: and had nothing going for him. And I think when
Speaker 6: Ray saw that he was interested in that sort of thing,
Speaker 6: I think he capitalized on it in order to to
Speaker 6: lure him and maybe a few other people in. But Uh,
Speaker 6: they had found a a site out near one of
Speaker 6: the places where they were searching earlier that had a
Speaker 6: lot of red and black candles sitting around, and it
Speaker 6: had names of Ray and all his friends, especially Dennis
Speaker 6: Rore Nancy, written all over the rocks around where that was.
Speaker 6: And that was evidently where they had had a little
Speaker 6: ceremony of some type. And I think the the woman
Speaker 6: Marie that uh that Yancy was convicted of killing, I
Speaker 6: think she had maybe been taken there to that area
Speaker 6: to uh serve as a sacrificial victim. And that's that's
Speaker 6: why he strangled her while Ray was filming it. That
Speaker 6: and the whole thing is just so sick and warped
Speaker 6: it's it's still amazing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he had a thing as well too that there
Speaker 5: was a major, of course sexual component to this, because
Speaker 5: the torture and saddism is part of the and then
Speaker 5: they abuse sexually with these monstrous things that he inserted
Speaker 5: into the women. This is the words of David Parker
Speaker 5: Ray on what captive captured women will do to be freed. Remember,
Speaker 5: women will do or say anything to get loose. They
Speaker 5: will scratch off her money, yell bag, scream, run off
Speaker 5: her sex excuses, and sob stories, menstruating, pregnant, v D,
Speaker 5: sick kids with babysitter, sick baby, a sick parent. She
Speaker 5: must be subjected to hypnosis before the woman can be
Speaker 5: safely released. Never trust a chained captive. So he had
Speaker 5: a whole list. He inserted a cassette and told the
Speaker 5: women to shut up and then listen, and warned them
Speaker 5: that maybe a little bit whimpering was allowed, but any
Speaker 5: kind of uncontrollable crying, any type of attempt to escape,
Speaker 5: would be So it was just a horrifying sort of
Speaker 5: manifest though. Here is the rules of the sex slavery
Speaker 5: and the torture and the satanism that he said he
Speaker 5: was going to subject these women to. And like you
Speaker 5: say that, he set up a monitor so they had
Speaker 5: to watch their own torture and it was prolonged torture.
Speaker 5: And then now there was sort of different estimates on
Speaker 5: how many murders that occurred on this and people were buried.
Speaker 5: Where do you think where were the people buried? And
Speaker 5: how many victims do you think accurately would be safe
Speaker 5: to say that David Parker and has accomplices were responsible
Speaker 5: for killing.
Speaker 6: Well, I think if you combine the ones that they
Speaker 6: might have killed were the ones that they also might
Speaker 6: have tortured. And then because you know they were they
Speaker 6: were given its hypnotic drugs and several of them that
Speaker 6: that worked for they would just release. But I think
Speaker 6: it could reach up into the forties, like it's been
Speaker 6: estimated I have seen one estimate, the estimate that said
Speaker 6: it might have run up as high as sixty, but
Speaker 6: I think there were probably over forty. And in his
Speaker 6: journals he had claimed over forty. And he also had
Speaker 6: a lot of information in there about good ideas that
Speaker 6: he'd had on ways to hide bodies, and one of
Speaker 6: them was to find a road that was under construction
Speaker 6: and being paved and buried the bodies before the pavement
Speaker 6: went down there on the roadway. And then another thing,
Speaker 6: when the guy found out about his concrete and the tires,
Speaker 6: he thought that was, you know, just a definite thing
Speaker 6: that he probably was doing. And h this was a
Speaker 6: former policeman from uh there and I think in Albert
Speaker 6: Herky that had worked at a jail for a while
Speaker 6: and raised girlfriend Cindy Handy had talked in the jail
Speaker 6: a lot that they had dumped bodies up in a
Speaker 6: place called the pit at Kabaya Lake, which is near
Speaker 6: that area.
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Speaker 6: She said that somebody had pictures of the pit and
Speaker 6: you could see heads and legs and everything else floating
Speaker 6: in the water.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 6: So there's there's no telling. We'll never know for sure
Speaker 6: how many victims that he had, cause some of 'em
Speaker 6: that are still living can't remember it, and and there
Speaker 6: may be so many dead already. Now, there was a
Speaker 6: letter that when they were getting the jewelry lined up
Speaker 6: ready to photograph, that came across a letter that was
Speaker 6: out of an envelope, so there was no address or
Speaker 6: return address on it. And it was written to a
Speaker 6: girl named Connie, and it had been written from Australia
Speaker 6: by a guy named Mark that had evidently met this
Speaker 6: Connie when he came over for a vacation and then
Speaker 6: wrote her after he got back home. And the uh FBI,
Speaker 6: the agent Frank Fisher, who was instrumental in all of
Speaker 6: this renewed search and all the jewelry information. Frank Fisher
Speaker 6: went to Australia and gave all the details was that
Speaker 6: they had gotten about this man from the letter, and
Speaker 6: uh went on Australian television news trying to locate him
Speaker 6: with somebody who knew him, so they could find out
Speaker 6: maybe a last name for this Connie, because she was
Speaker 6: described just exactly in his journal as she she was
Speaker 6: by what they had been able to find out from
Speaker 6: the letter. The d high h the hair color, everything
Speaker 6: was just perfect description, and they were afraid she might
Speaker 6: be a victim that they just didn't know anything about.
Speaker 6: And another victim of his Jim Yannce was the prosecutor
Speaker 6: in his trial, and he had worked really hard on
Speaker 6: the case and then got the conviction. And his wife, Karen,
Speaker 6: was an investigator in the Attorney General's office there in Albuquerque,
Speaker 6: and very well known, well respect tod, helpful to everybody,
Speaker 6: excellent investigator with a great reputation. And during the time
Speaker 6: of raised trial and and then afterwards, they were really
Speaker 6: stressed at home and she started going to the Indian
Speaker 6: casinos out there and gambling just for something to do.
Speaker 6: You know, for recreation, and that pretty much overtook her life.
Speaker 6: She began going more and more often and being real
Speaker 6: secretive about it and not telling her friends what she
Speaker 6: was doing. And debts were piling up and credit cards
Speaker 6: were getting cut off, and she was about to get
Speaker 6: to put on temporary relief from her job for a while.
Speaker 6: Her husband, Jim, told the press that she owed over
Speaker 6: a hundred thousand dollars at the casinos, and so she
Speaker 6: went out and started robbing banks.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 6: She would take her work vehicle and put on a
Speaker 6: ball cap, you know, some sunglasses and disguise like that
Speaker 6: and go and rob banks. And one day the police
Speaker 6: got there before she could leave the scene, and she
Speaker 6: managed to jump in that car and get down the
Speaker 6: road to a fast food restaurant and in the parking lot,
Speaker 6: they had a long standoff and they didn't have a clue,
Speaker 6: you know, at the time who they were dealing with,
Speaker 6: and she finally raised the gun and pointed at them,
Speaker 6: and they had no choice but to shoot. And when
Speaker 6: they ran the tag, it came back to the Attorney
Speaker 6: General's office and then they checked the idea and discovered
Speaker 6: who it was and she was shot and killed in
Speaker 6: May of two thousand and three because of the stress
Speaker 6: that David Parker Ray had brought onto her family. And
Speaker 6: there's another role that things like that just astounded me
Speaker 6: when I started finding all that, I.
Speaker 5: Was just right, how much evidence is there that they
Speaker 5: let any woman go hypnotized or on amnesia inducing drugs?
Speaker 5: Was there any evidence that this occurred?
Speaker 6: Yes, there was definitely one. I think her name was
Speaker 6: Kelly Van Cleeve, and they had videotapes of her being tortured,
Speaker 6: and she had a real distinctive tattoo on her leg
Speaker 6: and they identified her from that, and she had she
Speaker 6: had no memories of it for a while, and then
Speaker 6: it started coming back to her and she ended up
Speaker 6: being one of the people that he was convicted of kidnapping,
Speaker 6: that they id'd her from a tattoo. She and Cynthia
Speaker 6: both had gone on to have, you know, nice, normal,
Speaker 6: well adjusted, happy lives, and I don't see how in
Speaker 6: the world they managed. They must have been really strong
Speaker 6: young women to have been able to overcome that, But
Speaker 6: I think they're both doing quite well now.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's it's some good news in these kinds of
Speaker 5: stories that there isn't very much good news at all
Speaker 5: TAUS now about this controversial movie based on the story
Speaker 5: of David Parker Ray.
Speaker 6: Okay, the movie is going to be called The Toy Box.
Speaker 6: And a man named Michael Coburn had read Slow Death
Speaker 6: and got interested in the story and started researching it
Speaker 6: and working up a film from that, and from all
Speaker 6: accounts it I think if it gets released, it's it's
Speaker 6: gonna be Okay. It's very low budget. Then they spent
Speaker 6: about twenty thousand dollars on it, which for most you know,
Speaker 6: that's extreme low budget. But they had some pretty talented
Speaker 6: people working with them, and they had the gist of
Speaker 6: everything that had gone on, and it's had several release
Speaker 6: dates and then they'd get pushed back and it'd be
Speaker 6: in post production or something of that nature. And the
Speaker 6: last release date that's that's been that it's been pushed
Speaker 6: back to at this point that I know of, is
Speaker 6: August twenty thirteen, and I'm figuring it's gonna be one
Speaker 6: of these things that goes straight to video. Sure, but
Speaker 6: I believe there's a lot of people that are still
Speaker 6: going to enjoy it, quite a lot, you know, because
Speaker 6: there's so many people that have followed this case for
Speaker 6: such a long time, but I think it's I think
Speaker 6: it's pretty well done from everything I've been able to
Speaker 6: get it. They found in Arizona and in Texas and
Speaker 6: several other places in the Southwest when they could find
Speaker 6: good locations, and some of the actors would also be
Speaker 6: people who had helped write, and some of the crew
Speaker 6: would help act, and you know, they had a lot
Speaker 6: of overlapping deities there to get it made for that
Speaker 6: much money. But I'm really in hopes that it will
Speaker 6: get released.
Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely. Now you've been on the program before three times.
Speaker 5: Actually we had the pleasure of having you on the
Speaker 5: Blood Highway was the last time, Blood Ambush and blood Lust,
Speaker 5: and you have another book called Blood Betrayal, so a
Speaker 5: lot of blood going on.
Speaker 6: I was told by very successful writer that if you
Speaker 6: wanted your book to get picked up office, tell for
Speaker 6: y'all to always work blood into the title somewhere. So
Speaker 6: I've always tried to do that.
Speaker 5: That's probably a good strategy for sure. And it's not
Speaker 5: like these books aren't the titles aren't appropriate. They definitely are.
Speaker 5: That Blood Highway was the last one that was a
Speaker 5: wild story. Absolutely, tell us what projects that you're interested
Speaker 5: in now where you are considering for that you're considering
Speaker 5: writing now if any tell us about.
Speaker 6: That, Well, what I'm going to be doing next, I
Speaker 6: am going to be writing some ebook materials for the company.
Speaker 6: They want to move over into ebooks and ebook shorts,
Speaker 6: and I'm going to be working on that, probably in
Speaker 6: conjunction with William Phelps's another one of their writers. He's
Speaker 6: a very good researcher and where he's a good interviewer
Speaker 6: and I'm a good researcher and transcriber. And We're going
Speaker 6: to kind of throw in together on some projects, I think.
Speaker 6: And uh, the first week of February, I have a
Speaker 6: film crew that's coming over to meet me in Rome,
Speaker 6: Georgia from Investigation Discoveries program Behind Mansion Walls, and they're
Speaker 6: going to do the segment that's based on the case
Speaker 6: that I wrote about in Blood Ambush. And actually I'm
Speaker 6: very pleased about that because I'm gonna get an opportunity
Speaker 6: to say yet again that I do not believe Barbara
Speaker 6: Roberts was the killer in that case. I think she's
Speaker 6: spending her life in prison for something that she didn't do.
Speaker 6: That part of the crime she was a participant but
Speaker 6: I don't think she fired those three fatal shots, right.
Speaker 6: And the doctor her boyfriend, has since committed suicide. He
Speaker 6: got off with a slap on the wrist and practically
Speaker 6: time served, and then he moved home to live with
Speaker 6: his mother, and not too long after that he hung
Speaker 6: himself in the closet.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 6: And I think that was a combination of guilt and
Speaker 6: the fact that he couldn't practice nearer surgery anymore. Was
Speaker 6: they had had a automobile accident and he was not
Speaker 6: able to hold his hands steady after then. So it's
Speaker 6: a it's a mess. But no way of getting Barbara
Speaker 6: out that I can see, because she she pretty much
Speaker 6: chose to put herself in that position.
Speaker 5: I'd like to see her out, Yeah, she'd She doesn't
Speaker 5: even have the opportunity of any more appeals, does she.
Speaker 6: I don't think so. And m her attorney for the trial,
Speaker 6: who was also my attorney for some civil things, unfortunately
Speaker 6: got dis barred.
Speaker 5: So uh.
Speaker 6: I think that the fact of her having inadequate representation
Speaker 6: during the trial was was pretty much self evident by
Speaker 6: the But I don't I've I've spoken to her appeal attorney,
Speaker 6: and I don't think she's got too many more opportunities
Speaker 6: coming up. In some of the states, they can just
Speaker 6: go back and forth and back and forth from state
Speaker 6: to federal for just interminable amounts of time. But I
Speaker 6: don't think here in Alabama they have that many shots.
Speaker 5: Right, And so there'll be this will be interesting for
Speaker 5: you to shoot some film for uh AN investigation discovery.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it will be. I'm looking forward to it absolutely.
Speaker 5: And then good for you for for maintaining that this
Speaker 5: woman is innocent too, because I I mean that if
Speaker 5: there is anything going to happen, it's because people will
Speaker 5: stand up for them. And you never know what kind
Speaker 5: of momentum that will lead to investigation discovery is of
Speaker 5: course millions of years. So all you can do is try.
Speaker 6: I guess I will certainly try loud and long as
Speaker 6: as long as it takes me to ever get anybody
Speaker 6: to pay ten to that. I saw a letter in
Speaker 6: her attorney's files, who he let me go through them
Speaker 6: and get what I wanted out for the book, and
Speaker 6: there was a letter in there that he had received
Speaker 6: from a shooting range over in Georgia where she and
Speaker 6: the doctor went to learn to shoot, supposedly, and they
Speaker 6: said in that letter in their very reputable places. They
Speaker 6: wouldn't just lie about it for no reason. But they
Speaker 6: said in that letter that she after her car accident,
Speaker 6: she had had a lot of trouble with her arms
Speaker 6: and nerves and her arms and the muscles. They said
Speaker 6: she could not hold up a shotgun to shoot it,
Speaker 6: and she barely could hold up a pistol. And she's
Speaker 6: not gonna run a hundred yards across the fields through
Speaker 6: high weeds carrying the shotgun and then met up with
Speaker 6: her victim at the lake and then shoot the woman
Speaker 6: three times. I the the doctor was in the process
Speaker 6: of driving down there in the woman's car through the lake,
Speaker 6: and I think he got Barbara, took the shotgun and
Speaker 6: went on down there and did the last three shots.
Speaker 6: That's just my opinion. And the men that prosecuted her
Speaker 6: are all good, decent, honorable men, fine gentlemen that I've
Speaker 6: known all of them for years, And they would not
Speaker 6: have tried for the death penalty if they if they
Speaker 6: had been given any choice. But I don't believe that
Speaker 6: they were. Because she refused to testify, she wouldn't cooperate,
Speaker 6: and she was offered several deals and turned them down consistently.
Speaker 6: So it's, like I said, while ago, she's put herself
Speaker 6: in that position. But that doesn't make it any any
Speaker 6: the less disturbing for me to think about her living
Speaker 6: her life out in prison for something that she that
Speaker 6: I think she obviously didn't do.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, at least you're you're an advocate for her innocence.
Speaker 5: And I mean, even if she didn't, uh induct herself
Speaker 5: to wisely for the record, I guess that's all you
Speaker 5: can really ever do, is just And that's why these
Speaker 5: books are important. I mean, for the record, all the valuable, relevant,
Speaker 5: important information is there for the record. And with slow Death,
Speaker 5: with this book that you've been asked to write a
Speaker 5: forward for, this is another book that's gone on to
Speaker 5: have a life of its own. Like you say, it's
Speaker 5: been published in two thousand and three. The story was
Speaker 5: an arrest was around nineteen ninety nine. These crimes happened
Speaker 5: before that, before the turn of the century. And then
Speaker 5: there's still developments in twenty eleven after Jim Fielder dies,
Speaker 5: after he's planning an update. These stories just go on
Speaker 5: and on, and almost from Jim, almost from David Parker
Speaker 5: raised Evil from the Grave, is still casting Mayhew and
Speaker 5: disaster right from the FBI agent that committed suicide to
Speaker 5: the prosecutor went on to raw Banks. So it's an
Speaker 5: amazing evil legacy that this slow death has become.
Speaker 6: Well, it's become a really unpleasant legacy for his daughter, Jesse,
Speaker 6: who tried her best, I think, to straighten out and
Speaker 6: want to live with her mother and her daughter in Kentucky.
Speaker 6: And everything was quiet for a little while, and then
Speaker 6: the people in this little small town there where they
Speaker 6: were living got wind of her being there and who
Speaker 6: she was, and they started looking up what she had
Speaker 6: done and finding out details about the story. And there
Speaker 6: was just this little internet war that went on for
Speaker 6: months between the people in that town, posting and answering
Speaker 6: and posting and answering, and some thought she was trying
Speaker 6: to live a good life and others thought she was
Speaker 6: just tiding out there, waiting to commit Mayhem again. And
Speaker 6: I was really sad for her daughter. She has a
Speaker 6: teenage daughter. And the daughter went online finally after this
Speaker 6: had been going on for a long time, and then
Speaker 6: said that she felt really bad that people were persecuting
Speaker 6: her mother like that, and that she just hoped that
Speaker 6: her granddaddy had repented of the things that he had
Speaker 6: done before he died, and that's that's sad for a
Speaker 6: teenager to be dragged into a situation like that.
Speaker 5: Sure, well, she's an innocent person. Jesse Jesse Ree to
Speaker 5: this day claims her father is innocent, doesn't she Well.
Speaker 6: She does, but I think she knows better. She has
Speaker 6: to have known better because she was around too much
Speaker 6: for too long a time, and it was an often
Speaker 6: owned situation. She'd leave awhile and then he'd get sick
Speaker 6: and call her to come back home, and she has
Speaker 6: to have known what was going on. There's no waved
Speaker 6: that anybody could could fail to see that, and I
Speaker 6: think she just wants to. She hopes that people will
Speaker 6: believe that, but I don't think she really expects that
Speaker 6: anybody will because there is too much proof of what
Speaker 6: was done. Now, she claims that she had no part
Speaker 6: in getting victims there, but there were quite a few
Speaker 6: other people that said she did have. So I don't know.
Speaker 6: I just I hope that the woman is really doing
Speaker 6: what her daughter and her defenders up there in Kentucky
Speaker 6: think that she's doing, and you know, doing her best
Speaker 6: to have a good life.
Speaker 5: Now, was there any rhyme or reason why all these
Speaker 5: I mean, you talked about that David Parker Ray sort
Speaker 5: of manipulated this Yancey guy with the satanism and the power.
Speaker 5: I guess tell us a little bit about what you
Speaker 5: sort of got from the book itself, from the Why
Speaker 5: these other people would be involved.
Speaker 6: Well, there's always people out there that are looking for something,
Speaker 6: and it's like Dennish roy Yancy. He had absolutely nothing
Speaker 6: or nobody and he showed up in Truth to Consequences,
Speaker 6: which by the way, seems to be a really strange
Speaker 6: little town from everything I got from the book and
Speaker 6: the other information that I was able to find. And
Speaker 6: I think that people would just get involved because they had,
Speaker 6: you know, they had nothing else in their life. It's
Speaker 6: the only thing I can think of. I'm I'm stumped
Speaker 6: as to why they would, But that's that's the only
Speaker 6: reason I can think of, is that their lives were
Speaker 6: just empty and here was somebody that was real charismatic
Speaker 6: and seemed to have a lot of power and was
Speaker 6: paying attention to them and making them feel maybe important
Speaker 6: to be a mains to the end for him. He
Speaker 6: probably he was using them. I think to help toll
Speaker 6: victims for a large for large part.
Speaker 5: But if they're videotaping, and he videotaped with his girlfriend
Speaker 5: these assaults, and he videotaped some of this stuff, including
Speaker 5: at least one murder with Yancey, isn't it safe to
Speaker 5: say that these people enjoyed tortures and and killing and
Speaker 5: involve everything that was involved. That they must have enjoyed it,
Speaker 5: regardless of someone introducing them.
Speaker 6: To it, you know what I'm saying, Like they would
Speaker 6: have to enjoy it in order to continue taking part.
Speaker 6: And some of them probably lit a shut pretty fast
Speaker 6: when they saw what was going on to keep from
Speaker 6: becoming victims themselves if they didn't want to be part
Speaker 6: of it. So I think that, uh, I know that, uh,
Speaker 6: they must have enjoyed what they were doing. Now, he
Speaker 6: made the statement that he could not get any kind
Speaker 6: of enjoyment out of sex unless there was pain involved
Speaker 6: for the for the victim, that right, they said there
Speaker 6: had to be pain involved. And and then he would
Speaker 6: brag to the victims about how his girlfriend there would
Speaker 6: be so much rougher on 'em than than he was
Speaker 6: gonna be because that was just the way she was
Speaker 6: so yeah, I don't know. The the whole thing is,
Speaker 6: it's an amazing story, and it just keeps developing. I'm
Speaker 6: not at all gonna be surprised if another five years
Speaker 6: from now this still information cropping up about some of
Speaker 6: the missing persons, and and some of the victims might
Speaker 6: remember more at some point, and those leg bones finally
Speaker 6: may be identified. They surely they can. If they can
Speaker 6: get DNA out of a mammoth, surely the goodness they
Speaker 6: can get.
Speaker 5: Dead leg bones, I would think so.
Speaker 6: I think that's you know, a human leg bone, a
Speaker 6: set of leg bones is not going to get into
Speaker 6: a lake unless a dead person has been in there,
Speaker 6: you know. And they've got to id those leg bones.
Speaker 6: If there's any way they might belong to Jill Troy
Speaker 6: that they got the credible tips about, they might belong
Speaker 6: to any number of the other victims. They just they
Speaker 6: got to keep trying, and I think they will.
Speaker 5: This is what David Parker read had some instructions for
Speaker 5: the sexually that they had captured. This is a tape
Speaker 5: that started with religious instrumental music and raised a soft voice. Hello, bitch,
Speaker 5: I'm sure you're wondering why even kidnapped and what's going
Speaker 5: to happen to you. That's why this tape has been made.
Speaker 5: It saves a lot of talking. It's brief, blunt, and
Speaker 5: to the point. I'm a dungeon master for a local
Speaker 5: chapter of the Church of Satan Lucifer or the Devil
Speaker 5: to you. You have been abducted so that your body
Speaker 5: can be used during rituals and for sexual purposes for
Speaker 5: the congregation after the meetings. Our membership is pretty small,
Speaker 5: but all about twenty people, mixed male and female. Our
Speaker 5: meetings are pretty much what most people imagine the way
Speaker 5: it is depicted in the movies. A hidden church, black robes, pentagrams, rituals, chanting,
Speaker 5: a lot of nakedness, animals, sacrifices, chicken blood, and the
Speaker 5: hell of a lot of sex. Afterward, the meetings get
Speaker 5: interesting and exciting, to say the least. Trying to raise
Speaker 5: the demons is important, but it is the sex that
Speaker 5: keeps the church financially afloat. The high Priest lives to
Speaker 5: keep everybody fixed up up on sex, and for that
Speaker 5: we like fresh meat. Every couple of months, we kidnapped
Speaker 5: some good looking little bitch to use during the rituals
Speaker 5: and to be kept available for everyone to use during
Speaker 5: the orgy, and so he goes on like that. So
Speaker 5: part of it is the terrifying his subject as well
Speaker 5: and telling them what will happen if they don't listen
Speaker 5: to every single detail in order.
Speaker 6: I don't believe that he ever had as many as
Speaker 6: twenty people. I think that was and I don't think
Speaker 6: he conducted rituals that much either. I think he was,
Speaker 6: you know, just more or less making that up as
Speaker 6: he went. But those tapes just go on and own
Speaker 6: and own. They're so lengthy and detailed and horrifying, and
Speaker 6: they're all transcribed in the book and it's just it's
Speaker 6: just mind blowing to read and imagine what those women
Speaker 6: must have felt like having to listen something like that
Speaker 6: and them all trust up in a torture chamber at
Speaker 6: the time.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And as we spoke earlier before the interview tonight,
Speaker 5: this seemed to really affect Jim Fielder too, and he
Speaker 5: never went on to write any more books. And this one,
Speaker 5: just from my personal conversations with him, it seemed to
Speaker 5: be play heavy on him having gone through this thing.
Speaker 5: And that's I think imaginable too. When you brush near
Speaker 5: or get so close to something such so evil that
Speaker 5: it is hard not to just brush yourself off and continue,
Speaker 5: you know, And it must have been a big effect,
Speaker 5: a heavy effect on him.
Speaker 6: Well, if your listeners would like to see him and
Speaker 6: hear more details about this story and see some actual
Speaker 6: footage of the people that were involved. There are a
Speaker 6: bunch of videos posted on YouTube, some that mister Fielder
Speaker 6: had made parts of and some that featured the victims
Speaker 6: that escape talking about it. That might be something that
Speaker 6: people might want to check out.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, so they just be able to go and sort
Speaker 5: of type in slow death and Jim Fielder and they would.
Speaker 6: Be able to find some things, right, Yeah, or David Parker.
Speaker 5: Ray or David Parker Ray.
Speaker 6: I think that's how I searched. And there's just there's
Speaker 6: lots and lots of videos on there from that time
Speaker 6: of him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I've seen all the other people. I've seen some
Speaker 5: things too. It's amazing. You know. The thing is that
Speaker 5: always disturbs me more than just the single act of
Speaker 5: some of these heinous monsters that we discuss on this program,
Speaker 5: that you've written about, that I've written about it, other
Speaker 5: people have written about, all the authors I've written about.
Speaker 5: Is the phenomena of the accomplice, the daughter, the girlfriend,
Speaker 5: and the friend, especially doing something like this, because this
Speaker 5: is not murder for robbery or murder clean and simple,
Speaker 5: or you know, this is this is some of the
Speaker 5: you know, the worst types of crime, a murder imaginable.
Speaker 5: And yet the three accomplices, including your daughter, girlfriend and friend.
Speaker 5: It's to me that's that's the most horrifying part of
Speaker 5: this is that it is the accomplice other people in
Speaker 5: the same evil mindset.
Speaker 6: Right, Well, it horrifies me that those people could be
Speaker 6: so dependent on being made to feel important by somebody
Speaker 6: that they could find themselves sucked into a situation like that.
Speaker 6: I think that's a large part of it. Either they
Speaker 6: want their love or their approval or their friendship, or
Speaker 6: they just just want to want the thrill of feeling important.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And I think what's what we didn't really discuss tonight
Speaker 5: too is and what it's really captured in the book
Speaker 5: is the the charismatic appeal of David Parker. Why, you're right,
Speaker 5: this is this manipulation here as well. It's not.
Speaker 6: That same power to get your followers to do what
Speaker 6: you say, It's very similar. Yeah, yeahs.
Speaker 5: And the thing is with a with a daughter. I mean,
Speaker 5: what what what kind of life did this this young woman?
Speaker 5: What kind of chance did she stand with this type
Speaker 5: of father and these type of activities going on in
Speaker 5: a girlfriend twenty years or or more, his his junior
Speaker 5: and so the influence that the daughter had, she didn't
Speaker 5: have much of a chance to turn out at all.
Speaker 6: No, she certainly didn't. It's a it's a miracle that
Speaker 6: she seems to have at least part why pulled her
Speaker 6: life together a little bit now.
Speaker 5: So yeah, like you said, it's pretty hard to hide.
Speaker 5: It's pretty hard to hide from this kind of horror
Speaker 5: because eventually people find out. It's it's uh, you know,
Speaker 5: it's going to be following her around for the rest
Speaker 5: of her life unless she moved from the United States basically,
Speaker 5: but as long as she's in America, somebody will find
Speaker 5: her eventually.
Speaker 6: Well, that's right. I guess in a very very small
Speaker 6: Kentucky town, she thought she was maybe gonna get to
Speaker 6: lay low for a little while, but it didn't work
Speaker 6: out that way.
Speaker 5: Yes, So that's that's incredible. Well, she I want to
Speaker 5: thank you very much. I want to thank you very
Speaker 5: much for coming onto the program. Once again and talking
Speaker 5: about the Slow Death by Jim Fielder, now a true
Speaker 5: crime classic by Kensington Press Pinnacle, and you are a
Speaker 5: Pinnacle author as well, and she where you were asked
Speaker 5: and you thought of a privilege to write an update
Speaker 5: and af forward for Slow Death by Jim Fielder. And
Speaker 5: so I want to thank you very much for coming
Speaker 5: on and talking about that, and please get a hold
Speaker 5: of me as soon as you have another project in
Speaker 5: the works, and we'll get you back on and talk
Speaker 5: about another fine book that you've written.
Speaker 6: Well, I certainly will. I appreciate it, and everybody if
Speaker 6: you haven't read this book, read it. If you have
Speaker 6: read it, get it and read the update, because it's
Speaker 6: an important book I think in true crime, one of
Speaker 6: the most absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 5: And the reminder audience too about your appearance on the
Speaker 5: Investigation Discovery. What program is that against It's.
Speaker 6: Going to be on behind matching walls. I'm not sure
Speaker 6: when it will. I are probably a while in the
Speaker 6: future because they're just getting to the point of working
Speaker 6: on it now, but it's gonna be behind matching.
Speaker 5: Walls and that's gonna be out in February, right think so,
Speaker 5: or you're you're filming on.
Speaker 6: I'm filming in February. I'm not sure when when the
Speaker 6: work is going to get done on it, but it
Speaker 6: should be interesting. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll look forward to that. Is there's just people
Speaker 5: that are just addicted to that program.
Speaker 6: Yes, well, I'll be sure to let you know when
Speaker 6: it's going to be on.
Speaker 5: Great. Well, thank you very much, Sheila. You have a
Speaker 5: great night, and thank you very much for coming back
Speaker 5: on to the program.
Speaker 6: Well, thank you. I always appreciate you having me.
Speaker 5: Thank you, thank you, Bye bye.