Speaker 1: We're all owned by the Syndicate, body and soul, or
should I just say Bunny.
Speaker 2: Hello? Filthy movie lovers, Something Weirdos and anti criterion Bros.
To the twenty sixth episode of The Sin Syndicate, the
only podcast that knows candlewax and candy bars are the
way to a woman's heart and every staircase should be
checked for tripwire before descending. My name is Gentry Austen,
writer and researcher, and I'm here with my co host,
adult film historian Casey Scott. And in this week's episode,
we will be submitting to a nineteen sixty nine psychological
sex film starring a pre porno pre Sarno, Miss Jennifer Wells,
director Alan Savage's New York shot dreamlike thriller submission.
Speaker 3: There's amission, a study of warm, a desire to submit
the secrets of an orgy, the symbols of perversion. They
are here for all desires, a wheel passions that consume,
emotions that ooze outward bearing the vitals of life.
Speaker 2: But first, a couple quick updates from the Exploitation News Desk.
We know how people like to be teased. I think
we could comfortably tease a few things that are in
the pipeline, right, Casey.
Speaker 4: I think so it's the nature of the genre it
to tease, So I don't see what we also would not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the first is a release that we will
be heavily involved in. I believe it's going to be
announced next month, right Casey? Is that correct? What do
you think?
Speaker 4: No, the one that we the one that we did
a comment to our first commentary for Yes, it'll be
announced in January. Yes's perfect because it's one of those
that basically they don't announce it until the month that
it's available the month, so they'll announce it in January.
That might give you people in him at What's what studio?
It is what boutique label? It is one of those.
Speaker 2: Yes, what else? We've got other some other stuff in
the works. Hopefully we can talk to Lisa next month
involved which is one of the projects. Hopefully we can
talk more about that next month with her. But other
than that, I would also say keep an eye on
Keen Oliber. You know, if you've been paying attention, they've
been doing a lot of nudy qtis stuff lately, and
I think they've exhausted all the Forbidden Fruit series. I'm
not sure, but I think that they're done with the fifties.
I think that they're getting into the sixties here. You know,
we know of a few that are coming down the pipeline,
so uh yeah, hopefully we'll be involved with some of
that stuff.
Speaker 4: I think Forbidden for It's going to keep going. Is
they're just finally branching out. Yeah, I mean there's so
many films that they could do restorations for on those
black and white like roadshow movies. Okay, yeah, I'm not
sure that's done. I think they are finally doing the
sixties once we saw mister Peters Pets come out, So
now they're finally exploring nudy, qutis and beyond. So I
think that's kind of what we have to look forward
to in that regard for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that's our little tease. We'll leave it there.
What else do we have, Casey for updates?
Speaker 4: Well, the first one I had to so dol Land
where continues. The big update for this is, you know,
I took all some Puritan's Dream Gentry posted you know,
images and video on the on our Instagram of Pureitan's Dream,
and then I posted additionals on the something We're Facebook
group and something that I did take with screenshots of
all of the credits of the movie, including all the
fake cast names, but there were some real crew names
in there. So one of the crew names was cinematographer
Ivan Spain. So Mike McCollum, God Love, Mike did just
a quick search on Ivan Spain. Ivan Spain is his
real name. He was He was a photographer in New
York and he captured straight life in the sixties and seventies.
But he's also based in San Francisco and did photography
out there too. He's still alive. He's eighty eight, so
another person I have to all. He's had different kinds
of shows of his work pop up in the last
several years, of like portraits of people on the streets
of New York. And Mike believes that the photographer studio
in In Hot Blood might be his photography studio, but
we and he thinks just based on comparing the photography
that he did in the sixties with In Hot Blood,
which he watched for the first time, he thinks that
it's probably a safe bet to say that Ivan shot that.
Speaker 2: That would make it.
Speaker 4: Fluctuation has two other people on it that were real people,
so that was not Ivan. I think by that time
he might have relocated to San Francisco. But he also
became an actor in his seventies for a movie called
All of Me Sex Over seventy, which was, you know,
discussing how seniors citizens have sex. And he kind of
did a tour with that little movie. I think it
might have been just a doc. But I'm interested in
speaking to him obviously, because I think he's one of
the only people around who worked with Joel on any
of his films that I can actually get a hold
of now.
Speaker 2: And if he hangs up on you, then Joel is
definitely in witness protection.
Speaker 4: I know, right, It's like, wait a minute, what's the deal.
I yeah, I'm just I'm crossing my fingers that somebody will.
I mean, I never I still never heard back from
the brother's partner or the actress that he you know,
went around to parties with and stuff. I need to
actually call them. The issue is just finding the time
to do that, especially easier to send emails while I'm
working and stuff. So so that was the big one,
and actually the other piece of news I have on
here I don't think we need to discuss I in
that much detail. I will just say the sex negativity
around sex films these days, this is really getting to me.
So I've been haunting a few comments sections. There was
a screening of an adult film in Los Angeles last
week and some other reviews were driving me up the wall,
and I'd had a few drinks and I put some
instagrim story that you know, in all of my years
of screening adult films in New York and the experiences
of going to other adults film screenings in New York,
never had anything like this happen. Never had anybody say, well,
I wanted to go see an adult movies so I
could laugh at it. And yeah, nobody goes to see
these movies to laugh at them, like, oh my god,
this is terrible. We can laugh at this. Everyone wants
like a room experience with like seventies porno when you're
watching of Roger Watkins movie. That is never going to
be the case. Even Pink Ladies is very dark. I mean,
it's funny, but it's also very dark. So the fact
that you go into an adult movie made by the
guy who made Last House on Dead End Street thinking
you're gonna get some chuckles is deranged. Uh So I
had a few people say, well, I don't know why
you're saying it's an LA thing. I had at least
twelve messages from twelve different people say oh, yeah, LA
is like this, And that reminded me of our conversations
with Dakota and Chris last week where they had issues
with a screening of a pink film in LA where
they picked a comedy, so it was it went down easier,
but they expressed hesitation to show a lot more in
LA because there's something about the audiences there that don't
react to sex films the way audiences in Chicago and
New York do. And I don't know what it is
about that California Sunshine that has has done that. I
don't understand that.
Speaker 2: I don't think it helped that it was screened at
you know, Quentin Tarantino's Knew Beverly, where they yeah, they
attract a certain type of bro. I think I've heard
that before, So it is what it is.
Speaker 4: LA film brows are very different from New York film bros.
I mean, both are different kind of insufferable, but they're
different types of insufferable. And I guess I'm a New
York film bro, but not as much as I used
to be. Just this morning, somebody decided to complain about
the fact that there was a young child in the
Fireworks Woman the title card for Fireworks Woman on Reddit,
and I was like, well, take it up with Craven
and I believe it was his daughter and he's in
the scene. It's a non sexual scene with a child
in an adult film. And I think there are so
many other adult films that have children in them. Is
because the actors are playing adult characters and guess what,
some of them have children, so you're gonna have scenes
with them being parents.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: It's like, and these scenes aren't included to tatilate an
adult film audience, like, oh my god, there's a kid
in here. I can't wait to jerk off. I think
it's just holding these adult films to higher standards, like well,
it's a sex film, there should never be kids in here.
It's like, well, it's a film first, so like then
maybe you should say that about every film. Maybe there
shouldn't be kids in here if it's an R rated
movie with a lot of sex in it. But they
will never do that. So that was fun to wake
up to this morning too. Yeah, complaining about a dead
man and including his daughter shirtless at like six years
old and fireworks woman, and it's scene that he's in
having fireworks with his kids. Very crazy and weird. Yea,
So I was like and then I watched abmission and
I was like, oh, he feels so much better. I
was like, yeah, sex.
Speaker 2: Film, right, straight up sex film.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it is all right. I was like, it's there's
something wrong with sex on film. I really wish people
would kind of embrace seeing sex in film.
Speaker 2: Last thing about, you know, the corruption screening that we're
alluding to, is I was wondering if anybody had introed it,
did you ever hear anything back about anybody that was
at the.
Speaker 4: Show, Which is strange to me because when we screened it,
we had Lara Ravine, Michael de Torre, and Kelly Nichols.
We flew out from California. She's still there in Los Angeles,
so I don't think anybody called her. So we had
a Q and intro and everything on there, which I
think is probably probably says a lot compared to It's
a good comparison to how those two screenings went. One
was respectful and historical and the other was I don't
know what.
Speaker 2: Yeah, based on what I've read about it, some people
didn't even know what they were getting into. They were
just like, oh, I thought this was going to be
a horror movie. So clearly they didn't do a good
job advertising this.
Speaker 4: No, I mean, I don't know if they wanted to
show a horror X rated movie. I think Through the
Looking Glass did that just screen there? I don't remember,
but that's available to book on thirty five milimeter. We
screened it on thirty five millimeter, So sex wishes available
that would have gone over way worse probably actually, so
there are hardcore horror movies that are available. I think
they screened Hot Summer in the City, and the other
reactions to that were not great either, because I remember
going to letterbox and checking after a friend told me
they screened that, and I was like, oh, yeah, not good.
I think people. Yeah, people are weird about sex and
movie movies these days.
Speaker 2: That's the story of our life. Yeah, m hm, m
hm hm, let's get into it. Yeah, because this was
a rewatch for me. How many times have you seen Submission?
Speaker 4: Oh? Wow, I think like probably twelve.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 4: It's not. I mean, it's I really love it because
it's more of an it's such an experience. Yes, it's
a it's such a really interesting it just kind of
washes over you. And there's such a distinct lack of
lack of plot, which is fine, I mean, but it
really is just more like a visual and a visual
audio experience. It's like it's very art filmy. Really, it's
kind of what Fluctuations was trying to do, but very
Fluctuations is way worse. Like there's yeah there, you can
see that this is trying to be like an artsy
underground movie a lot of the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so too. Well, let's start with the
release history. So produced in sixty nine but actually released
in seventy. Is that what I'm hearing?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Okay, My Chancellor Films our favorite. So we're lucky
we have this at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of those we have a negative.
Speaker 4: And we have deleted scenes from a NA forum on
the DVD. Shockingly, we have a good quality Chancellor Films title.
Speaker 2: And if you guys remember this is by Alan Savage,
who was a director of our number one. Well, I
should say number one, but are you a miss pick
for the film that we would most like to see
bound in our Lost in Limbo series that we did,
so they both star. Yeah, Weekend with Strangers was the.
Speaker 4: Pick also from Chancellor too. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that Chancellor doesn't survive that we know of yet,
but this one, yeah does, so that's that's a treat.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting. They both have Jennifer Wells too, so
they most must have. Yeah, they must have really been
taken with her. And then she changes her name for
Weekend with Strangers. She's Lisa Duran in here, so yeah,
she made one Lisa Duran movie with them, and then
she made one Jennifer Wells movie with them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is funny that she would change.
Speaker 4: And she's brunette in one and then blonde in the other.
One's in black and white and one is in color.
So it really is just like such an interesting in
less than a year.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was gonna say, it's not like it was
a big span a time either.
Speaker 4: Yeah. No, it's less than a year, so it's just
kind of like, Okay, so they did well with this,
and then they just took this and made a complete
transformation in terms of their star and also their production
and in the production. I mean, yeah, it's it's, it's
it's interesting to note the two just based on the
trailer that exists a Weekend with Strangers.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I should also mention this is streaming on Cult
Pics if you have a subscription there, so sign up
check it out. Alex also pointed out that the ad
campaign for The Debauchers and Submission are nearly identical. All right,
I don't know. I think they do not.
Speaker 4: Look that way to me.
Speaker 2: I can Yeah, maybe I shouldn't say nearly identical, but
they're similarly.
Speaker 4: If you mean by everything is crowded together on the
right side of the post for sure. But yeah, I don't.
I don't see the similarities that he sees. They're They're
also very different films. And I think there was a
suggestion they used the same designer and agency, but I
don't know who Sam Lake used for Debauchers, But Chancellor
I think had their own people in house, did they not?
So I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll throw that in the show notes. You can
take a look and judge for yourself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because I can't see it, but maybe my eyes
haven't been trained to notice similarities and advertising campaigns. It's
not as similar as like like The Witch who Came
from the Sea, that artwork is stolen from like a
paperback or no, or like Shock. Yeah, the poster for
Mario Bother Shock is stolen from like a paperback of
a Shirley Jackson book. Like it's a little it's not
as obvious when it's photos we're talking about compared to
like art artwork.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or Lucio Fulci's the Psychic that art with the
skull with the serpent coming through. I've seen that on
a few other films, So.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, So it's sort of yeah, I mean that's
very yes exactly. I think it's more of an artwork
thing that's easier to replicate than like photographs, especially when
none of the cast members are the same in these movies.
It's like, yeah, it's I'm not seeing it, Alex seeing it,
my love. But we'll talk.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Synopsis for submission from the Something Weird Video triple feature,
which was the Times Square triple feature, which we just
talked about a couple episodes ago. With fluctuations we did.
I will read that quickly. A psycho sex fiend keeps
his infantile girlfriend Vicky in Submission with candy bars, toys,
and yes, hot wax. But when they plan on killing
a wealthy lesbian, Vicky discovers she likes a woman's touch
and plans a nasty surprise for her boneheaded boyfriend. I
think that that gives away a little bit. I don't
know if I would have gone that far with the
something weird.
Speaker 4: I think when it comes to films like this, they
have to spoil it. It's like toy Box where, because
we're dealing with people who aren't able to put things
together on their own when they're watching these movies. No
shade viewers, but some of y'all aren't able to piece
things together through visual or audio clues. This one is
a little tough to follow, but I think they have
to do that to kind of at least let people
know once they've seen it, oh that's what happened. Yeah,
you know.
Speaker 2: I can see that because I was reading Iron Cupcake,
our Friendetta on Letterbox her review of Submission, and she
was like, yeah, I didn't really know what was going
on till the last ten minutes of this film, and
it was kind of like, oh, yeah, I guess they don't. Really,
it's not made Some of these plot points are not well,
there isn't too much plot, but it's not made explicit,
like who this lady is that they're going to work for.
Speaker 4: Right, even though the flashbacks, which are flashbacks, you're not
necessarily sure how they fit into the narrative, so you
have to piece that together yourself. Like Sheiba Britt is
one of their previous targets of you know, of blackmail
and fleecing and you know, and the boyfriend is shown
to be advan by like raping a girl in a
park or in the woods, and yeah, no, no, it's
it's you. Kind of in their flashbasters, you have like
that squirrel camera edit effect, but sometimes you don't. So
it's kind of like, Okay, so is this just is
this going out at the same time as the narrative
that we're experiencing, or is this a flashback to how
they you know, what they're what they're kind of gig
is in fleecing people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Sheba Brit thing is funny because I mean,
is there mo o that they're going after older women?
So is Sheba supposed to be an older woman? Because
in Marcie, which stars Uta Eriksson and Sheiba Britt. Sheba
I think is also supposed to be the older woman
in that relationship, so it's always funny that she's I
don't I never really saw her as like an older woman.
Speaker 4: Oh, definitely at that point, especially we consider that she
she started around the time at the same time Marcia
Jordan did sixty two, So by sixty nine, she's been
doing these movies for seven years, like Marcia Jordan, Like,
that's that's older. So yeah, Sheiba Britt anything after after
a certain point, she's gonna be older than all of
her co stars. So whether she's you know, I think,
I think there's that thought of like, well, if she's older,
she's supposed to be matronly, and it's like, well, it's
not necessarily the case. Like Marsha Jordan was never matronly.
Who's the other older woman.
Speaker 5: That I love?
Speaker 4: Bella Donna also older, not sometimes casses matronly, but then
she lets her hair down, she's you know, stunning. Yeah, exploitation,
you can't really do matronly. That's in the nature of
the genre. Nobody wants to see someone matronly take their
clothes off. You know, unless it's a nice surprise session
said that they're not matronly.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we'll talk about Chiba later.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I have a lot of good stuff about Siva,
who I need to call. Uh, yeah, we'll talk about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The production this is S and J Films, so
obviously Savage and someone named Jay with the last name Jay.
Speaker 4: I wonder if it's Gary Juden, to be honest, the
lea the lead. I'm thinking it might be because this
really he's like the only man who has most of
the sex in this other than Joel Fernandez. And he
might have been Donald Stanley, the co writer for all
I know, that might have been a pseudonym, because when
I researched Gary Juden, I found that he had co
written a bunch of other scripts with a writer comedian
named Michael Premenger, who I think people if they know
him at all now, is because he wrote the movie
Nothing in Common, the Tom Hanks Jackie Gleeson movie, and
then he also wrote a TV movie called Gleason about
Jackie Gleeson, so he has like the comedian Gleason connection.
So Gary already was writing, and he was in New
York with Premonger I emailed Preme Manger to see what
he remembered about him, because try as I might, can't
find one thing more about Gary Juden. That name is
impossible to trace. But that's the Jay that I thought of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that does sound like it's highly likely. Director co
writer Savage. He was born in thirty six. Another mysterious
kind of figure, kind of like our Joel landwere a bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, not as mysterious because he has a lot. He
has a very large footprint in New York. In Boston.
So Allen was the director, the executi producer was Arthur
and so they were twin brothers that were from Boston.
They were both involved with theater in the Boston area.
They both went to Emerson College. They were very all
with children's theater in Boston, and eventually they moved to
New York and got involved with doing off Broadway plays
sometime in the mid sixties, and it was around that
time that they did Submission and then later Weekend with Strangers.
So that's where the brothers split. After Weekend with Strangers,
they split up. Allen stayed in New York and became
a very beloved and very popular acting coach. So he
he took his his you know, background in directing and
oh that's something else in terms of children's theater. They
ran a children's theater company. But also Alan was a
children's acting teacher in Boston, so he already was doing
teaching acting, teaching with children in the sixties before he
came to New York. So Alan just transitioned that into
dealing with mostly adults in New York. So he stayed
in New York. Arthur went back up to Boston and
became more established there as a local theater director, and
so he did that, you know, well into the eighties.
As far as I can tell, he came back. Arthur
came back to New York and did an off Broadway
play that was it was like a it was a
it was a revival of an art of an Ira
Levin play called Veronica's Room because the two of them
were friends. And that played and that was in nineteen
eighty one, and it was executive produce wise by his wife, Barbara,
who is still alive. So Arthur and Barbara are involved
in theater. But also Alan's wife, Leonor was an actress
with him as Lee Savage. So we have these you know,
these two twins with wives who are both wives are
also involved in the theater, the theater world.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just theater. Though they never did any film making.
Speaker 4: The actresses no, yeah, yeah, no. The actresses, as far
as I could tell, never did any Their wives never
did any any film. They were not involved with either film. So,
but they were with they were married to them at
the time that both of them made this film on
Weekend with Strangers. So the fact that both wives are
still around and both brothers are not means that I
kind of want to reach out to the wives at
some point. But I've said before, I tried reaching out
to the savages for years, both of them, Alan and Arthur.
Speaker 2: You've been trying for a long time.
Speaker 4: I've been I was trying for a long time. I
even wrote them letters and I never got a response.
So they either were intercepted or they didn't want to talk.
I think Alan probably would have been more receptive. I
was going after Arthur Moore. I don't know why. I'm
not sure why I went after Arthur Moore, probably because
it easier to find the phone book. But every time
I called, I got Arthur's son, and Arthur's son would
tell me, well, yeah, my dad was involved with theater.
But you're calling about films. My dad didn't make any films,
so that conversation has to end because that means he
didn't tell his children that he made to sexploitation movies
before he got more involved with theater. So unfortunately, Arthur
died in twenty sixteen, so he was in New York.
He came back to New York. After he came back
in New York to do the Veronica's Room play in
eighty one, and then I think he stayed. He would
go back and forth between Boston and New York and
you know, handle productions in Boston and New York. He
died twenty sixteen, unfortunately, and I said he was survived
by his brother, Alan, so Alan was still alive until
December of last year. Unfortunately, he died December twenty twenty four,
which is terrible. This keeps happening where I keep finding
people and I'm like, oh, great, they're here, and then
I will discover oh, they died literally months ago, so
I can't speak to them now. But Alan, it's interesting.
I was able to confirm that it is the Alan
Savage that we would want to be looking for. Because
he was interviewed in the New York Daily News in
nineteen seventy three about Mayor Lindsay not running for reelection,
and there's a picture of him, so we know what
Alan looks like and Arthur. I don't know if Arthur
was a identical twin or just a fraternal twin, So
I don't know if Arthur looked like Alan, okay, But
Alan's picture matches all of the videos and memorial photos
and things that his acting pupils shared of him after
he died, so that definitely was him, and he is
unfortunately no longer with us, and it sucks because that
means the weekend with strangers, we have absolutely no one
to talk to you because everyone involved with that is
gone now, every single person that we know that was
involved is gone and submission. There's a few people that
are left who I'm trying, who I am actively trying
to reach out to, but unfortunately both of the Savage
brothers are no longer with us, which because there anything
that came from a theatrical background. When you watch this movie,
it is so not what you would expect from someone
who comes from theater.
Speaker 2: There's very little dialogue because.
Speaker 4: You have a lot of those directors. Yes, there's very
little dialogue. The acting is not there's no big show
about acting moments. It's not like Asarno or like a
Michael miol has tucked me in where he came from theater.
It's not like a Braslav where he also came from
like theater and and performance. It's very visual. It's about
telling the story through visuals. So it's really like they
hired the right people technically to make this movie and
they weren't really weren't concerned about like a script or
about about performance moments as you think they would be.
Speaker 2: Well, now that they're both gone, it almost makes me
wonder if you should call again. I don't know how
you would word it, but you know, maybe through them
passing away, they went through their stuff and maybe they
found out about these movies and maybe it's not us
possible surprise anymore.
Speaker 4: Right, Well, that's why I think reaching out to and
I'll mention him again because I love him. Sean does
this a lot. Sean Langrick, who we've discussed, will reach
out to family members of deceased film personnel, and he's
he's pretty good at it. He's pretty good at approaching
people and in the right way so that they're able
to either say, well, this is new to me and
i'm I'm mentioned in helping you, or yeah I knew
about it, it wasn't something that person was proud of whatever.
So I definitely want to reach out to both both wives.
The one Barbara is still in Massachusetts where Arthur died,
and then Lee is still here in New York where
Alan died. So the wives are still alive. And also
they had children. They're like, you know, Arthur had the son,
Alan had a daughter, So yeah, they have wives and
children that I can contact, which I'm very I yeah,
because they are just like a lot of these films,
there are just questions that I have, like, we don't
know why they decided to make this film. Was it money?
It feels like if it was a cash grab, it
could have been something cheap and ugly, like in Hot Blood,
and it's not. It's something that's like really technically skilled.
It's incredibly well edited and photographed like it it feels
like it's some kind of statement or some kind of
like experiment, And so the backstory of that is what
intrigues me the most. And then Weekend with Strangers when
going by that trailer, completely different story, acting, more locations,
like they expanded in color. So like I wanted, I
would really like to know what that what that journey
was like, going from something that was so obviously low budget,
you know, focused on technical skill over story and acting,
and then moving to something else which was more expensive,
which was focused on like a script and story beats.
Speaker 2: I wonder if submission was always planned as like the
film to fund Weekend with Strangers possible.
Speaker 4: That's possible, that's possible. You never I mean you never know. Yeah,
it's just yeah, I mean as as much interesting stuff
I found about the Savage brothers and I was, I mean,
very impressive careers for both of them outside of these films,
and there's a big footprint that they left in like
the theater world in New York and Boston. But then
also I found that interesting interesting article about the arrest
while this was being produced where they interviewed Alan and
I don't know if you want to go over that
now or when we go over Gary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go into in a little bit. But okay,
also back to you know, it would be nice to
talk to someone that knows a little bit about this
because the music is my biggest mystery. I agree, who
this mus who is ninety one? They composed it's such
and performed this music.
Speaker 4: It's such an important part of the movie and it
really it really And that's why I've seen it twelve times,
because either I've been sitting watching it or I've had
it on because I just like the overall ambion experience.
Speaker 2: Of the movie.
Speaker 4: And Yeah, that soundtrack is just really incredible. I want
to know who it was. It kind of I wonder
if it was Manny Durant, which was Liza, which was
Lisa Durant's husband at k Jennifer Wells's husband. He did
the music for Weekend with Strangers too. Oh, so it's
possible because he was a jazz musician and there's that
jazz jazz piano and things and little pieces in there,
so it's possible that he was a member of this
mysterious ninety one that's credited for the music score. Unfortunately,
he's no longer with us either, But that was the
first person I thought of, was like, maybe Manny was
involved with this because Lisa or Jennifer Jennifer Wells, Lisa
was touring with his married name as an exotic dancer
throughout the sixties, so like he was with her that
whole time. He was very aware of her sexploitation career,
and as we see what Weekly with Strangers, was actually
involved with some of the films that she made. So
that's a possibility.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's funny because Joel Reid remembered when they were
working on Career bed Jennifer's. He said, boyfriend was there
and he was like strumming the guitar in the background.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's Manny Duran.
Speaker 2: That must have been Manny Okay, because yeah Duran. I
had heard that he was a trumpeter, but I always forget, like, look,
these jazz musicians they can do everything, you know, they're
not just a trumpeter. So he could have played all
the music on this or he could have been part
of this a collective group.
Speaker 4: Yeah right, Well that's funny because there is something like
that I've found. Well, well, I guess go over it more.
But yeah, there was an interview with Lisa where she was,
you know, she was azotic dancers. She was interviewing a
newspaper article where she said that she was used to
dancing in her numbers, so like Latin beats, and so
when she had to tour and there were like house
bands at these strip clubs that couldn't play Latin music,
she had to adjust her act because she couldn't do
any kind of Latin dancing. So you know, it's interesting
because yeah, it just ties into like Manny where he
was involved with like jazz and Latin music and things.
So m hm.
Speaker 6: H m hm.
Speaker 2: M hm. Well let's cruise through some more important crew
members here before we get to the cast. Kemper Peacock,
that's another big Camper. Yes, speaking of sing guy, Yes.
Speaker 4: He was basically with Sarno's go to editor for a
lot of his best stuff. Kemper is interesting. Kemper is
someone I haven't talked to in like a long time,
I think like fifteen years, and I was very happy
to find that he is still alive. I just need
to call him again because I had I have his number.
I was going to call him before we started recording,
but I got sidetracked into other stuff. But so he
came from a theater background too initially, so he went
to Bard College and he got a degree in theater arts.
And I found a thing at Bard College, where his
senior project was directing two plays, No Exit, which we
all know, and The Tinker's Wedding, which is very different,
so like a drama and a kind of a comedy.
Then he went to the Army and he got involved
with industrial film in New York and that's where he
got his you know, experience in editing. So he was
working in industrial film editing in New York, and then
he kind of stumbled into sexploitation through a friend of
his who worked at a bank and was financing sex films. So,
like a lot of New York filmmakers who we've seen
this all the time in New York, whether they have,
there's an industrial film industry here, and so those people
who are working on these like very boring projects will
want to do some a little more exciting and with
for a little more money, and sex films are a
good opportunity to do that. So yeah, Kemper did edited
oh gosh, how many I don't remember how many. So
he did sex, he edited Sex Cycle, Wild, Pink, Coarse, Skin,
Deep in Love, Love, Rebellion, My Body, Hunger, Scarford, Missdya,
Satin Deep Inside. But then he was also on the
set of Love, Merchant, and the lost film Step Out
of Your Mind, which was never released, which was like
the rock and roll movie that he did, so he
was very Sarno.
Speaker 2: Yes, sadly a lot of those are lost Sarnos Yes, unfortunately.
Speaker 4: He also edited She's Doing It Again for Victor Bertini,
which I really want to cover this on this podcast
because that's like the probably my favorite Uda Eriksson movie.
I think it's the best perform she ever gave. Yes,
it's absolutely incredible. Bella Donna's in it and she's great too.
It's so good and I wish more people would see it.
He edited Behind Locked Doors for Braslov, which we love.
He directed a Hot Erotic Dream from Mort Schumann, which
is very good, and then he made Meeting on sixty
ninth Street, which unfortunately Kemper I don't like and I
it just it just is not up to up to
snuff with a lot of the other films of that era.
He was in the Sarno doc you can see him.
He appears in that as himself, but after Sexploitation kind
of fizzled and he stopped doing those. He had a
major career in ABC as a sports as an editor
of sports and news footage. So his big thing was
he did I think mostly college football highlight reels and
coverage of the seventies, So he was involved with, you know,
doing all of this coverage, nationwide coverage where it had
to be sent in flown in so that he could
edit it all together really quickly in a space of
like eight hours so that it could be then shown
on the news the next night. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine like how stressful editing sports footage would
have been in the pre digital age.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because it had to be timely too, so
it's like you have to shoot all this shit really
quickly and then cut it all together and have it ready.
I found an article where he edited football a highlight
reel together for like in nineteen seventy three, and the
sports media was mad because there was a certain athlete
that wasn't included, and so they were trying to blame
all these people for not including this major athlete, and
Kemper is quoted as saying, like, I'm just work with
what I'm given. I wasn't giving any footage of this
guy because they're like, well, what is the editor's fault. Nope,
not the editor's fault. He works with what he's given.
You never gave me any footage of this guy, so,
you know, very interesting guy. He bought a historic in
in Dover, New York, which he ran for several years
with a girlfriend of his until I think she bought
him out, and then she sold it. She sold it
to some some hedge fund guy who let it, you know,
run into the ground. He's no longer in New York.
He's in North Carolina. And yeah, I might call him
after we're done recording, just because I haven't talked to
him in so long. I always really helpful to Bowen
and his Sarno research, and yeah, he's He's always been
very accessible because with that name, how could you not be.
There are very few Kemper Peacocks in the world. And
it's funny that's not even his full name was Bryant
Kemper Peacock, so Kemper Peacock is really technically his real name.
But yeah, he was very easy to find on like
MySpace and Facebook. He'd answer anybody whoever reached out to him,
and he didn't really have that many people reach out
to him, which is crazy considering how important he is
in New York's exploitation. I think most people forget how
important editors are here, and you can see how good
his work is in submission, in shaping that narrative. That
candy bar scene is wild, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like the one that stands out the way
that it's like triple edited. Yeah, it's it's and it's
not the same. It's a different take each.
Speaker 4: Time for all different takes. Yeah, yeah, which is great,
which interesting because and then it kind of makes it
look like, well, we couldn't pick a favorite take, but
instead I think it really it creates like a weird
kind of time loop. Yeah, it's another way that the
film messes with like time and a narrative really in
an interesting way.
Speaker 2: I need to go back and rewatch the Sarno doc
because I don't remember him. Do you remember what he
said about Sarno? Was it?
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't remember if it was a sit
down interview or if it was a situation where like
he was visiting or at a screening and was talking
to him, because not everybody in that dock did a
sit down interview. Sometimes it was just them in public
at screenings that he went to, or meetings with different people,
but he's definitely in it because he was in New
York at the time that was made.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's called The Life and Dirty Pictures. I think
we haven't said that yet, but yeah, it's a great
doc that just came out on physical so you can
you can purchase that, but I think.
Speaker 4: It's also on I Do Need Together.
Speaker 2: I think I watched it on Film Movement when it
was originally put on there a while back.
Speaker 4: It's been ten years since that thing came out. I'm
very surprised at that time flies because I remember when
they came out and I was so excited because it
was it was spoke, it was set in like the
early two thousands because he was shooting. Part of the
focus of that doc is him trying to make his
comeback movie from Mike Rozo, and that was like two
thousand and six or seven. So yeah, like by the
time the movie came out, I think he'd been he'd
already gone. He wasn't around anymore. I think I.
Speaker 2: Remember that doc in the doc when he's talking about
making that movie and his his he was still in
that like seventies exploitation mold up. He wrote the script
and even Peggy was like this script, it's it's not.
Speaker 4: Well, it's very like it's like making movies in Florida.
It's like you're giving you're given a cast of actors.
He was given like the Seduction Cinema girls. Yeah, and
those girls aren't actresses. So and he used to be
able to work wonders with people that couldn't act, like
I think Tina Tina Russell is a big example, but
there are other people that he worked with that he
was able to bring something out of. I think by
that time, years after he had really been at his peak,
I think there's only so much attention he could give
to getting performances out of these actors. And so it's
did you ever see the movie he made, the Suburban
Secrets thing? I was quoted in promotional material for that
because they sent me a screener it. At that time,
I was chummy chummy with that company before they we
had a falling out over a few things. But yeah,
they quoted me in in promotional materials saying like Casey
Scott TVD drive in and yeah, little quotes. I didn't
love it, but I liked it enough and I wanted
it to do well, so that was one of the
only times that I ever really kind of, you know,
bit my lip and tried to do positive promotion for
something that I didn't really believe in.
Speaker 2: Yeah anymore two hour one. It's really long, isn't it.
Speaker 4: It's yeah, it's not good.
Speaker 2: It's not good, I remember.
Speaker 4: And disappointing because it is similar to a lot of
his earlier films. But it's like and he wanted to
shoot on film, and I think that was an issue
because it was expensive and yeah, like he had these
actors who were not good and because they were all
seduction cinema girls instead of getting actual actors, and the
then are gross in it. Yeah, no, it's you know,
if you have to see it, it's a step up
from like his awful, awful, awful eighties and nineties adult
videos that he was doing for a paycheck. Like you
can tell that he wanted to make this good, but
he's working against Mike Razo and that whole seduction cinema
thing where there's a limit to what they would allow
him to do, and there's a limit to what they
would actually help him with as well, and so it's
it's it's an interesting failure yeah, I'll put it that way.
Speaker 7: Oh, excuse me, I didn't know.
Speaker 4: I thought you were sleeping.
Speaker 8: I was so hot and just died from the trip.
Speaker 4: I thought, I, oh, I got stuff in my ass
and say, well would.
Speaker 6: You have that?
Speaker 4: Tell sure here?
Speaker 6: That thought you weren't good?
Speaker 5: Oh about Dusty from the Trip?
Speaker 6: Is his marvel?
Speaker 4: Fred Murphy, Yes, very important cinematographer, made this when he
was twenty twenty six, twenty seven years old, and uh,
yeah he's still around it still. I think he's in
I think he's in the Hamptons in New York. Uh.
He just showed up at Lincoln Center for a screening
of Hoosiers, which he shot.
Speaker 2: Okay, so this is the same Fred Murphy, because when
I was looking at homography, the.
Speaker 4: Same Fred Murphy.
Speaker 2: This could be one of those IMDb screw ups where
the name is just so similar his name got.
Speaker 4: Attached to read his interviews. His interviews, he doesn't talk
about this movie specifically, but yeah, he was a Brooklyn boy.
He was working on industrial films, just like Kemper was.
So yeah, it's yeah, he was in New York at
the time shooting stuff and this is definitely him.
Speaker 2: Okay, but he hasn't ever mentioned this movie that you
know of.
Speaker 4: I don't know if anyone's asked except for me. I
just emailed him. I don't know if I'm going to hear.
Speaker 2: Back from him, but better better late than ever.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I Well, I expressed to him that because both
of the directors are gone and there are very few
people around who still worked on the movie, it's kind
of imperative that we get a story of the production
of this for posterity. So I tried to put it
that way, because he also shot What October Sky with
Jay Gillenhall, which was a big movie. His Yeah, his
his resume is nuts, and this was the first first
thing he ever shot, and then he went back to
industrial films until like the early seventies. So yeah, very
very interesting guy. He still does interviews. The fact that
he's in the Hampton's makes me nervous because that means
he's like he's got money. Then he really doesn't have
any reason to talk about this this movie. But I
mean it's also a movie that I could see someone
like him putting on a reel. You know, there's enough
good stuff in this that I think he could he
would put on a reel, like Joanel Fernandez put stuff
from his Delmiano films on his reel when he went
to Hollywood. You know, I think any cinematographer knows that
they're doing good work would always, regardless if it was
X rated, would put stuff on a reel if it
was from sex films too. I know several filmmakers who
have done that.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah, you could definitely edit this into a
classy looking clip.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean Joe Autron did that. He had scenes from
Devil and Miss Jones on his on his reel, yeah,
and story of Joanna on his reel yeah, and Miss
Aggie too. Yeah, he definitely had And I think Larry
Ravine did the same thing, like, yeah, if you're if
you're proud of your work and you're you're able to
show what you're able to do with lighting and you know,
framing and stuff, but you definitely would include that stuff
on your reel.
Speaker 2: So we don't really know exactly how he got involved
with the Savages. We just know he was a young cinematographer, right.
Speaker 4: He was industrial just like Kemper, So it's possible that
he knew Kemper from from that. Uh, possibly he got
involved because Kemper brought him to the production It's possible. Yeah, yeah,
we don't know, but I mean that makes more sense.
That's kind of like we we kind of know how
The production manager got involved another weirdly also Boston based.
So Grant Willis is the production manager on this. He
was a He was an Air Force cadet who graduated
from the American Academy of Dramatic Arts in New York.
And when he was working after he graduated, and he
graduated in like sixty eight I believe, and he got
a job in the program department at ABCTV, which is
where Kemper was working. So I feel like that makes
the most sense of how he got involved with this,
and also the fact that he's from Boston probably helped
if the Savages, you know, wanted to have another New
Englander on their set. He pursued acting and only got
a few little roles. He was not in submission, but
then he pursued a law degree at Brooklyn Law School
and then became an attorney. He went back to Massachusetts
and he also died December last year. Unfortunately. So the
production manager, who also is somebody that I would want
to talk to on any film because they're the ones
who put it all together. Yeah, he's gone too, unfortunately.
Speaker 2: Yes, we won't ever probably know what the house was
that they shot this and where that was.
Speaker 4: Must Fred say something?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Brad, answer your email.
Speaker 4: I know, Fred, you need to answer me. And also
you hear in New York are like you need to.
Speaker 2: Just corner him, corner him at the next screening that
he should he was.
Speaker 4: If I'd known he was going to Hoosiers in August
of this year, I would have gone and been like,
I need to talk to you about submission please. I
have people that link, I have people at Lincoln Center
who would have helped me out there. Okay, I would
have been like, so well, actually, in situations like that,
I always I always ask, and then I exchanged cards
business cards, and then you follow up later like putting
someone on the spot and saying give me answers now
is never the move. So but if you're able to
be like, if you're able to establish that you're asking
with good intentions and not with ill intentions of trying
to ruin someone's life by bringing up their softcore porn
they made or whatever, but you have make it clear
you want to do it for historical reasons, then they
just generally will be like, yeah, sure, no, I'll talk
to you. That's fine. Yeah, yeah, it's happened to me
several times, but yeah, not on the spot. I wouldn't
be like, I'm gonna talk to you about the Savage
Brothers because I don't know if you'd remember them.
Speaker 2: By name, but well, you'd be like, well, do you
remember Jennifer Wells you worked with her or you know,
he'd probably remember that.
Speaker 4: He probably would have remembered her actual name, which Lisa
Duran right right, Or the fact that he actually photographed
a future cinematographer, fellow cinematographer and fellow member of the
a s C Joel Fernandez, who I'm sure he's run
into at meetings of that of that union because they
are both active members. So that's kind of interesting. Tony Fessa,
I'm still trying to confirm that this is the Tony
Fessa that's based in Florida. It was based in Florida.
I think he's in California now, but later became a
member of Domiano's crew, so he did sound on Teeny
Tulip and changes. So I'm trying to determine if that's
the same guy.
Speaker 2: But he had an easy job on this one. I think, Yeah, really,
there's not that much to mic up.
Speaker 4: I mean there is. But see, that's the thing we
don't know. I don't know how much more was I
don't know how much more live sound is recorded and
just not used.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 2: I was thinking as well, yeah, we don't know what
happened in the edit, like it could have been very
different when they were shooting it. Yeah, right, right.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I just I mean it's interesting. Maybe went
on to work with Domiano and the Well, it's also
because Teeny Tulip was shot in Florida, so he went
down to Florida with Domiano, and then it would track
that he's the Tony Foresta that had a film company
in Florida. He just stayed in Florida. But I don't know.
I have to, I have to. I've sent my feelers
out to that guy too to see what looks up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we mentioned the music is credited to A
ninety one. Very mysterious, and I mean the film opens
with like I think it's almost eight minutes of just
instrumental kind of a soft jazz number. And then the
rest of the music is kind of like a I
don't know, there's like heavy flanger on, kind of like
a woozy droning.
Speaker 4: I don't know how you.
Speaker 2: Would describe it. I wouldn't call it jazz, but it's
experimental music, so exactly jazz.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I assume this is at all with jazz and
ends with jazz.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is all. This is all ninety one. We're assuming. Yeah, yeah,
so who knows. When I was watching it again, I
was thinking about trying to clip everything and like put
it together as like an album almost and upload it
to YouTube. But we'll see if I go through with that,
because that's great. Like we both said, the music is
a huge part of this movie, and it's it's part
of what makes it so rewatchable, whether or not you're
actively participating in the viewing or not. Like you said,
it's like a great background movie just because the music
is so good. Anything else to add about the music, Nope,
it's good. Yeah, it's great, but nothing else.
Speaker 4: We don't know anything. So if I don't know anything,
nothing to say, yeah, because I'd rather not say anything
because if I don't know anything, I don't need to.
Speaker 2: Talk about Yeah, do you want to talk about lighting designer?
Have we ever talked about a lighting designer before?
Speaker 4: Consider if you look at this movie, the lighting designer
is very important. But also I think it's I mean,
it's important to note the lighting designer because the lighting
designer is also still around in California. And lighting designer
worked with Ron Sullivan on this as an electrician and
then they both moved over to do Putney Swape the
same year with the Robert Downey Senior. So and also
I think, yeah, if you're if you're doing like any
movie with this kind of photography, the lighting is so important.
So obviously this is something that somebody that Fred Murphy
worked with. He gets a special credit underneath Fred Murphy
in the credits. It goes camera Fred Murphy lighting Norris Eisenbray.
So obviously very important guy, you know. So yeah, and
also a very unique So that's why I was able
to find him. Yeah, so I need to call I
need to call him too. And it's possible he worked
on other Ron Selement stuff And I just don't know
whether you name like that. You would think you'd get
more credits, but those are the only two credits he has.
Considering how good he was at lighting, I'd be surprised
if he didn't continue doing it. Still photographer who we
just we talked about him on Renter Girl. Ye yeah, big, big,
still photographer and very important figure in the world of expectation.
So yeah, I mean he's the one who was able
to capture all those stills that we love of Jennifer
Wellson in black and White no longer with us. He
was the last person to photograph Betty Page. He managed
different New York City strippers and dancer, so he might
have been involved with casting more than we know. I
need to find more interviews with him, which just because
he went out to California and did this, he worked
on a lot of porno sets and so yeah, very
interesting guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, still photographer. I think modern movie audiences don't understand
maybe how important that part that role was in the
you know, the pre digital era and the era of
you know, like these big press books that we're always
talking about, like they took all those photos on the sets,
and sometimes those are all that exist of some of
these lost films we have is the still photos that
we get from the set, and sometimes these movies that
haven't been restored well, yet the still photos look better
than the sort of like VHS rip we're looking at,
you know what I'm saying. So you can sometimes get
a better picture of what the movie looked like through
the still photos than the existing print that we're watching.
So we love our still photographers, yes, absolutely, Well else
we got.
Speaker 4: Ron Sullivan, So Ron was so basically he was the
electrician on this, working with Norris Eisenbrae, and then he
then somehow managed became the production manager and Weekend with Strangers.
I do feel like that could have been a Jennifer
Wells connection because of Scorpio seventy because he directed her.
That was the first Jennifer Wells movie with Scorpio seventy,
and he directed that for Sam Lake because she was
credited as other people. She was credited as Liza Durant
or Lisa Durant or I think Elizabeth o'beer is her
other name. I'm Good to Bad the Beautiful. Her first
Jennifer Wells movie was Scorpio seventy and he directed that.
So I feel like that would be a good connection
to place him on the set of weakn with Strangers
with the Savages as a production manager, not just an electrician. Yeah,
because by that point he'd been a director. Yeah. No,
I miss Ron and I never I never thought to
ask him about that Jennifer Wells because, as I've said before,
not a big Jennifer Wells person, So I really didn't
have any questions about her.
Speaker 2: Which leads me to ask you, what did you have
you seen the Ron Sullivan early years? That new package
that came out.
Speaker 4: Now, yet I still need it sent to me. I
last Weekend is not good, and I love the Bizarre ones,
but I have never seen Scorpio seventy, So I need
to get that sent to me on my next comp
package for Meliciny.
Speaker 2: Yep, that's kind of a blind spot for me as well.
I haven't seen that. Dakota was asking me about it
as well, and I was like, oh, I haven't seen
that yet.
Speaker 4: I need to get And it was very well distributed,
it was very well promoted. Yeah, that kind of made
her a star overy night with Scorpio seventy. I think
that's much more and that's more important in developing hers
into the star that we know then we kind of
give a credit for because it wasn't available for years.
But I have found so much promotional material on that,
Like they really went nuts promoting this.
Speaker 2: That iconic you know, poster your art at one sheet
for it with her face on the scorpion, right right, Yeah,
it's so good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I still need to see it.
Speaker 2: Last but not least sistent.
Speaker 4: Gail Porter. Yeah, so I was like, well, this is interesting.
You have a woman a being assistant editor on this movie.
She was also the script girl on the set, which
I also find interesting. So the only other thing I
could find about her, which IMDb is accurate here, was
that she co directed this film called Tales with these
these three of the women directors. I'm trying to find
a copy of this and screened anthology film archives several
years ago, and I was not I was not aware,
so I missed it. Yeah, Jill Godmilo was one of
the co directors of that, and she just died like
in September of this year. So I was trying to
find more about Gail Porter because that's such it's it's
just interesting to me whenever I see a woman on
the crew with these well, yeah, would know her name
is shockingly to common. Kemper would definitely know because it
was as assistant editor he would have worked with her. So, yeah,
I'm going to ask her. I'm going to ask him
what he remembers about her. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Interesting, I'd like to talk to you, mister Miles about
you and your wife.
Speaker 2: Staying on here?
Speaker 6: Hasn't h our work and satisfactory?
Speaker 8: Yeah, don't you uh like his mistake?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: What is it?
Speaker 4: Just me? What do you mean?
Speaker 6: It's not exactly a secret. You're not particularly attracted to me,
as a matter of fact, if I didn't know better?
Speaker 4: What do you mean?
Speaker 6: But that would be such a waste mistakele You're a
very attractive woman, very very attractive.
Speaker 2: Well, let's get into the the juiciest part of this movie,
which is the cast here a couple. I know, we're
like chopping at the bit to talk about a couple
of the members of the cast here. Obviously, I think
we can start with Jennifer Wells under her Lisa Durant's
pseudonym here. So this is I'm trying to understand. I mean,
the timeline is so short. So she had done how
many movies for Henry uh Bouchard, A Scorpio, She.
Speaker 4: Did this Sporting House, which was Eliza Durant, And I
think that was it she'd only done the one for
him that wasn't Jennifer Wells, Okay, Eliza Durant. She only
did a handful of movies with e Liza or Lisa Durant.
She only did a handful of movies under that name,
under that under those names, and the.
Speaker 2: Two movies she did with Joel Reid Career Bed in
Sex by Advertisement. I know Career Bed was first, and
Sex by Advertisement came pretty hot on the heels, right,
And is this actually in the middle between those? I'm
not sure. I know that's somehow sometimes how it's presented.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I never tried to pinpoint
that exact chronology because it's kind of yeah, yeah for
any actress, I like, I don't ever try to. Yeah,
I don't need the exact chronology. Just whatever year was released,
that's what I'll go by.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I'm like trying to find the shooting date.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's like, dude, good luck, that's not gonna happen. Like,
I don't know what was first. I have no idea
what was for Yeah, not a clue. Yeah, but you know,
the name that she was touring under was Lisa Durant,
which was I believe her real married name, and then
that became Liza duran on Career Bed and Sex by Advertisement,
and there was something else she used Liza durant on,
maybe the Sporting House. But yeah, all I know. A
Scorpio seventy was the first Jennifer Wells and then Weakened
with Strangers was the second. Okay, yeah, and Week of
My Strangers was the first blonde Jennifer Wells. She was
a brunette and everything until Weakened with Strangers, which is
funny because she waited and tel color to become a
blonde because she only did black and white as a brunette.
And I feel like maybe there was some kind of
situation where someone told her, well, you'll be taking more
seriously as an actress if you're a brunette. So she
became a brunette because I mean, her roles in her
sixties films are much more substantial and interesting than her
roles in hardcore. Her roles and hardcore are not that
great and they don't really give her much to do.
So yeah, I prefer the brunette Jennifer Wells era.
Speaker 2: I do too, So that's the funny thing too. I
don't know how. I feel like most people approach her
career through the hardcore stuff. That's probably what they know
her for or for see her, And yeah, I probably
I had always known her from the Sarno's first, and
then I went back to the Black and Whites, and
then I've seen some of her hardcore stuff, So.
Speaker 4: It's it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 2: It is interesting for me because it's like there's a
lot of sexploitation actresses that never did I'd say the
majority of them didn't go into hardcore, So seeing them,
I don't know.
Speaker 4: Before a certain point, yes, after nineteen seventy, not really. Yeah,
Like there's very few that didn't do hardcore after hardcore
came around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's always weird to me to see someone
that I I first knew doing softcore that actually went
into hardcore. Part of me doesn't like it because it's
kind of rue. I don't know, it kind of breaks
some of the magic, you know what well that russ Meyer.
Speaker 4: Always said he didn't like it when one of quote
unquote his girls did hardcore because he thought it ruined
their image that he had created of them, because because
you know, it was his He's the reason that anyone
kne who they were in his mind, so it was yeah,
it was totally hit. They should have asked him first,
as you know, his misogynistic ass would have probably thought yeah.
But actually, not even that many russ Meyer girls did hardcore.
It was like Sharon Kelly Kitten, which he was really
pissed about in Edie Williams, his ex wife, maybe a
few others. That's interesting that you got into Jennifer Wells
through the Sarno stuff, because I she's definitely a memorable
part of the Sarno stuff, but she's always for me anyway,
outshone by other cast members and all of those films.
In my opinion, Abigail Leslie really belongs to like Mary
Mendem and Chris Jordan American Housewife Mary Mendem, Chris Jordan,
Nissy Mary Mendem, So like I think casting her with Mary,
casting her with Mary Mendem is really not doing Jennifer
Will's any favors, because I think Mary Mendem is also
a better actress and a Sarno film that's kind of important.
So I understand her appeal. But it wasn't until I
started seeing her softcore stuff that I was like, Oh,
I really she was great. I don't know what happened there.
I feel she became a worse actress in the seventies
than she was in the sixties. Yeah. I don't know
why that is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it's just yeah, seeing her next
to some of these stronger performers. Yeah, but I think, yeah,
the roles that she was given going forward further in
her career were maybe less interesting than earlier. Drew agree.
Speaker 4: I think. So we don't know about her touring in
theater though not as an actress. I think her touring
was as a dancer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was like not an actress.
Speaker 4: But I mean she said she like, really she wasn't
touring with ballet either. I mean she had a background
in ballet. Sure if she's said if she wants to
say she did summerstock, that's fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't.
Speaker 4: I haven't found any evidence of that. I have found
all the evidence in the world that she had a
very well loved exotic dancing style that made her very
popular in Roanoke, Virginia, and she toured all over the place.
But an article that said that she'd been to Vegas
and was successful, I found no evidence she was ever
in Vegas, so like, yeah, I mean that's kind of
an interesting thing. There's all this apparently there's you know,
these revelations about her through interviews that have been done
with her. I can't find any evidence of a lot
of that, So, you know, I think a lot of
I think there are definitely actresses that will kind of
try to not rewrite history, but they have the own
version of things. Sure, And I don't know. Yeah, I
know that she studied acting, which you can tell because
I think you can see that she's trying a lot
in some of her performances. But then yeah, I think
she came for mostly like a dancing background for sure. Yeah. Yeah,
she's not like a Patty McNair or a Peggy Stephans. No,
they're definitely coming from an acting background. And they did
Summer Stock and they did Off Broadway, Like she didn't
do off Broadway or stuff in New York Theatrically, that
would have been kind of where I've been like, well,
if you're an actress, then exercise that craft on the stage,
And I don't think she ever did that. From what
I can tell, she was in like Minsky's burlesque Pollies,
but that's also not acting. It's dancing again. Right.
Speaker 8: So the year was nineteen sixty five and in southeast Roanoak,
the owner of a nightclub called Papa Joe's brought in
a couple of topless go go dancers strippers.
Speaker 6: Was getting old and saw so much publicize on topless goes,
and we decided to bring.
Speaker 4: Him in tramp. Anybody else in Virginia done this year?
Speaker 3: Not yet, Susie, what do you what do you think
of this new.
Speaker 1: Kind of act?
Speaker 2: Do you like it?
Speaker 9: Oh?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 7: What what was the reaction when you started it last night? Oh?
Speaker 9: It was okay.
Speaker 7: Everybody liked it, seemed to like it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Well how about you? Do you do you prefer
this to stripping?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 2: I do?
Speaker 4: Why is that?
Speaker 1: I've always been a go go fan.
Speaker 8: Some Roanoke residents were outraged by what they had heard
about the show when they stormed city council chambers to complain.
Speaker 1: Decent people don't go to that place, Respectable people don't
go to that place, and the men told such horrible
tales about these load down. Sorry, Jezbels, I don't believe
a nice Christian lady. We'll hang around places like can
I don't believe a gentle want to hang around.
Speaker 7: And Mayor I like to say that today that when
men go out and commit crime, well they are ready
to jail. And could you tell me that men would
go to where they and get intoxicated with alcohol and
then see necklace women talkless women, and then they get
that lust in them, and then they come out, go
out and commit crimes such as adultery, in which we
know if our city allows such things as going in
this and we're supposed to be a Christian nation, we
do know that rape and murder is going to increase.
Speaker 5: And I think that if we should should as a
Christian nation and preachers today, the Bible said that he
shall make you as bold as a lion. I think
that we should cry out against sin and not in
fight this thing, because we know that this thing comes
from the boish pits of hell.
Speaker 2: Yeah, see you alluded to that Roanoak tell us about
so she is.
Speaker 4: So beloved and ronok, I find all these all these
things like she They held her over and then they
brought her back and then they interviewed her in the
Roanoke Times about her about her showstopping, you know, audiences
packing performances, and she was a blonde, which is also
crazy because she was a blonde as a dancer when
she toured and then she went to brunette to become
an actress. It's just very interesting. I wonder for acting
teacher in New York was like, you need to be
a brunette to be taken seriously because you're too voluptuous
and you'll maybe it was like the Marrilyn neual fact,
where like people won't take you seriously if you're a blonde,
So dye your hair be brunette.
Speaker 2: What let me ask you about the voluptuousness, because I've
also heard that she had augmentation. But I don't know.
Speaker 4: If I don't think so, I can't. We've we've talked,
we have talked about this.
Speaker 2: I don't want to get me.
Speaker 4: You really want me to talk about breast agutation any
chance I get, because I'm a big not fan of that.
But no, I don't think so.
Speaker 2: I don't either.
Speaker 4: I would definitely be able to tell because you like
Dolly Sharp that early on. The only another actress over
that time in New York who got it was Dolly
Sharp and deep throat other things, you can definitely tell
that she's had breast augmentation. But yeah, like if you
look at like a baby Allen or Renne Bond, or
a Jane Centis or Sandy Carey or even like Anita
Strindberg over in Italy, like we've talked about it was
around that time, I'm not seeing any evidence of any
augmentation on her. Yeah. I think she was just vava voom,
you know, yes, good for her.
Speaker 2: Do we want to talk about her personal life, you know,
her disappearance, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you want, Yeah, if you want to, sure,
because I think you probably know about you know about
know more about it than I do. Because I've never Yeah,
like I've said, I've never been a diehard Jennifer Wells person.
I found her story interesting, but not interesting enough for
me to dive into.
Speaker 2: Well that's why I well, that's why I hesitate, because i've,
like you said, I don't I haven't like confirmed some
of the things she's she has said to certain people,
And like you said, she I don't know how much
she's molding these stories to fit the truth she wants
to tell about herself.
Speaker 4: But because that's something that I encountered to where you know,
I'll talk to someone, they'll tell me one thing, and
they'll talk to somebody else and they'll be like, well,
I don't know why she remembers it that way. She
or he remembers it that way. But in her case,
it's tough to find people to corroborate her story. So
you just go with you just go with what she's
saying is accurate. So if she says that, I'll believe her.
Speaker 2: Well we can. Yeah, so we can say. You know,
she has said she basically married a fan, you know, after.
Speaker 4: Sherry Candy Samples, which Candy Samples did too.
Speaker 2: After she divorced Manny, which.
Speaker 4: Which is funny because I don't think she divorced Manny,
because Manny doesn't remember ever officially divorcing her old vamoose
and left him. M hmm, yeah, because he was I
think he spoke about it briefly in like the early
two thousands and was like, yeah, we were married one
day and then I woke up and she wasn't there.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, she left.
Speaker 4: She just ran off and left New York, left everybody,
and I think that was yeah, So I don't think.
I don't know if they were ever officially divorced.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder. I don't know how different states divorce
laws work. If he could have done that on his
own without her being there, like filed the paperwork.
Speaker 4: Yeah maybe.
Speaker 2: But anyways, Yeah, it sounds like she, Yeah, she married
a fan and he wanted her to quit, and so
she basically just quit everything, cut ties with everybody, kind
of at his behest, and kind of lived a life
of luxury for a little bit. I think she. I mean,
she readily said she was basically like in a gilded cage,
you know, hair and nails every day, that kind of thing.
And I think she eventually was kind of working with
her husband, like on the executive side. But yeah, I
don't remember how exactly she got involved with horse training
and horse breeding, but yeah, eventually she yeah, I was
off the grid doing horse breeding and said she had
no running water, no electricity, and so that's why it
was so hard for people to find her. Yeah what else,
So yeah, she's she was. She died a what year,
twenty seventeen.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it was a while ago. And I remember
that Steve Moore was dister Picks was devastated because he
was trying to get a hold of her for years.
Speaker 2: I think she was one of those people where it
was pretty late in her life when she came around
to being open to talking about this stuff. Yeah, the
interviewed that I've heard from her, she didn't really I
don't know if Steven should be too bummed because she
didn't really have many great memories of I should say
not great memories. She didn't have a great memory about
her sexploitation years, right, Like, she just had nothing really
to say about Sarno. She just said he was let
her do what she wanted and wild.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So see, I was at the Sarna stayed in
touch with her, which is why the whole thing about
her going off the grid was so strange to me
because I thought they ate in touch with her. I
thought because I thought that Michael Bowen had connected with
her through them through Peggy. I might be wrong about that, yeah, Joe,
I mean because they see in touch with like Marie Forsa,
who nobody has talked to. And yeah, they stayed in
touch with like everybody that they could, because I think
everyone had a good That's why it always it's very
strange when he's like, oh, yes, Sarana was fine. I
was like, I mean, you were you did more than
one movie with him. He was part of his go
to repertory. Yeah, I know group in the seventies. So
I just think it's strange that there aren't really any memories.
Maybe they all flow together because they were all kind
of shot around the same time and a lot of
the same different locations. So you're not gonna remember like
your characters that you played necessarily because you've paid a
lot of the same characters in those things too. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, and the funny thing is, yeah, the character that
she plays in Confessions, she's the housewife getting getting kind
of corrupted, as opposed to do in Submission. She's doing
the I mean, is she doing the corrupting. It's debatable.
Speaker 4: I think you know she's the one being corrupted in that.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I know. That's that's what I was going
to say, Like, I think the older woman in Submission
is actually corrupting her.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I don't even know if it's corruption. It
gets more, she's been corrupted by the boyfriend. The older
woman is opening her up to the idea of what
like actual love can be. Yeah, it's not homophobic in
that way. Yeah, it's not like, well, no, yeah, this
this lesbian actually took took her over and corrupted her.
It's not like that at all. Other films are like that,
for sure, but this one isn't because you are never
against her and you're always against the guy, which is
great because he's terrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the and the final shot is Yeah, the
way it's framed, it's not it's very I would say optimistic.
You know, the two girls kind of walking away arms
hand in hand, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: It's actually kind of ill again ending.
Speaker 2: Just because someone like falls down the stairs.
Speaker 4: It reminds me of seeds or ghastly ones. Yeah, where
it's like, Okay, they survived and they will be fine.
The true evil has been vanquished, and that is a man.
Yeah right, it's like and that's not probably another reason
I like it. It's like, listen, this dude is just trash ladies.
You don't need him. They really don't need him. He
doesn't really do anything in the movie. Yeah, he does
little like chores around the house, but that's really mostly
what is doing. Yeah, like anybody can do that.
Speaker 5: Your work schedule, that's why you're here.
Speaker 7: Isn't it.
Speaker 9: Yes, ma'am and mister Morrow.
Speaker 4: I don't expect you to wear a uniform, but I
would appreciate it if you were a shirt in the future.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 2: Well, last thing about Jennifer's the interview that I listened
to with her, The one thing I liked that she
said about the exploitation era for her was that she
said that those sets were always super comfortable. Nobody was pervy,
nobody was you know, asking for favors. But she said
the mainstream jobs that she tried to get, that's where
she ran into the real sleeves bags.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe that like roof Tube, she had to
be in a scene with Chevy Chase. You just know
Chevy Chase was a total disgusting pervert to her. Yeah. Yeah,
just because their sex movies doesn't mean that everyone involved
is like trying to is on the make while they're
making them. It's a business. Yeah, they're making a movie.
They're acting, they're lighting, they're shooting, they're editing. It's a
business there, Yeah, it's not. And that's why I think
when it comes to mainstream stuff, that's why it's easy
to be pervy when the cameras aren't running, because it's
like it's just it's not up there, it's not upfront personal.
It's like we're making a sexy movie. You're gonna be
naked and it you're gonna pretend to have sex on
camera and then I'm whn y' all caught and we're done.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've heard that for years that those sets were
not largely not terrible. The adult sets are dealing with
people in studios definitely awful. Where you go in for
an audition and you're expected to put out because you
had a background in sex or a model in men's
magazines and things, and you're expected to do things. Erica
Gavins talked about that. Yeah, a lot of people have
talked about that, so that totally makes sense to me. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with the sixties exploitation, the gist I get is
a lot of these people this was like their the
crew especially, they're kind of mood lighting from other jobs,
so this is like their fun job. This is like
their fun side gig.
Speaker 4: Right. No, definitely, but that also means that, I mean,
they're still working it's fun because it is just fun
because like, yeah, a lot of them are just like yeah,
it's just like naked ladies running around and you're having
fun and doing work. It's you know, it is what
it is, but you're not expecting to like, Okay, when
it's is dome, We're gonna have a big orgy on
this set. It's like, well, like, that's not the way
that works. And it's funny because there aren't there. There
are a few adult movies that kind of try to
stoke the fires of that myth. Softcorse Exploitation doesn't really
do that. If you see something like Starlet, it's like, no,
this is work. It's hard. It's not the easiest damn
thing in the world. Blue Money is like that too,
where it's like, it's not it's difficult. You got the
lat chasing after you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Blue Money is It's a very specific time
and place though. Yeah, goal listen to oury episode about that.
But is there anything else we want to say about
Jennifer's You Found a whole a bunch of fun Papa
Joe's advertisements.
Speaker 4: Yes, Papa Joe's was her big, the Big Roanoke gig.
She also helped get a place shut down in Lynchburg, Virginia,
which listen, I'm from Virginia, I'm from northern Virginia, but
I know Lynchburg. Linsburg is very they have a Christian
college there now they might have had a Christian college
there then, So there are this paper got picked this
story got picked up by the wires and got published everywhere.
So she described her dancing routine as like a parody
of like eroticism, and it was like a comedy routine
or whatever. And then the sheriff sent the sheriff heard
about this and sent like a deputy or somebody to
watch the performance and they said that it was, Yeah,
it was. It was immoral and disgusting, and so they
shut down the venue the next day. And I was like, well,
that's that's our Jennifer just shutting down, shutting down southern
southern venues. The booker, but she traveled everywhere. She was
a super super busy lady in the sixties. She went everywhere.
And it's great because you can see ads with some
of the ads had pictures of her because she had
like nice stills taken of her with different hairds and things,
and so so yeah, it's interesting to trace that part
of her career. And then she came back to New
York and she toured with Minsky's Broadway Follies, and that
was based in New York, but then she would also
go to like New Jersey and Philadelphia and stuff with that.
So there are reviews that discuss her as like the
best part of that show. Like the show gets bad reviews,
but they say she's a memorable part of it. So
it's interesting that she would parlay this very busy touring
schedule as a dancer and then decided to settle down
in New York become an actress and start with I
guess career beed. Maybe I don't remember what the I
don't remember what the first one is. Yeah, talking about that,
but yeah.
Speaker 2: That is the part of the interview with her that
I totally believe, which is she says she's she got
into acting because she was just so tired from traveling
so much. She wanted to Yeah, she wanted to be
into schedule. She's like, I was never even in New
York for more than twenty four hours between stops, so
I wanted to just settle in New York. I love
New York, right.
Speaker 4: But also her husband was there too, Yeah he would.
I don't think he was necessarily touring with her all
the time, because that's one of the fun things. You'll
see her at Papa Joe's, and every single newspaper ad
for Papa Joe's has a different local band performing, so
like the Thunderbirds, the Fontanas, the whatever, And so you
get the idea of her being at this like go
go joint where she has her number, and then this
like local garage band does a set like some go
go dancers, you know. Yeah, So I like that idea
of like I like the I really am very much
a sixties Jennifer Wells person. Like she's so good and good,
the bad, the beautiful. I love her in that she's
great in career bed like, I really like that part
of her career as far as hardcore exposed me lovely,
she's top billed. She's not great in it, she's memorable
in like honey Pie and Sweetcakes, which is very very
similar roles as an older woman seducing someone younger and
inside Jennifer Wells that just came out. That's probably the
second best of those profile pictures. But it's so long,
and it doesn't need to be two bloody hours long.
But I think if you go in knowing that this
is going to be her last movie, and so you
want to see a ton of Jennifer Wells. It makes
sense why they did that. But yeah, the best one
is still Deep Inside Any Sprinkle, But that's the second
best one. Also because I think she the camera does
love her. I will always give her that. I think
she was always gorgeous and very memorable presence in her movies.
Even if she doesn't move me as much as other
actresses do, I still, you know, have to give her
her props. There's a reason why she was a star
and why she's still loved today for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to see Jennifer in a scene
with Robert Kerman, watch Inside Jennifer Wells.
Speaker 4: And Carter Stevens too, right, Oh that's glass eye. Yeah
yeah Stevens with his glass eye. God, I miss Carter
a what a wild dude. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, so, you know, I watched that movie Blue Nude
by Luigi.
Speaker 4: Scatini the other day, which he was involved with.
Speaker 2: He's a big part of it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he was involved with casting so all the adult
people in that he got involved. Yeah. So Suzanne McBain
was in Roller Babies and then he got her involved
with Blue Nude and she's really good in Blue Nude. Yes,
it really gives you it. Really, she's only ever good
in anything else. The only other thing she's good in
his Odyssey for Domiano, because people didn't cast her and
stuff to act and so you know so, but she's
she's terrific and I think she's still around too.
Speaker 2: Well. What about the two Don Walters movies? Do you
like those? Have you seen those? Little Orphan Sammy?
Speaker 4: And No, No, I don't look Don Walters. I think Don Walters.
I love his softcore stuff, especially Anything Once is absolutely incredible.
The only hardcore movie of his that I like is
a movie he didn't even direct. He produced Outlaw Lady,
which is Ron Sullivan's best probably his best movie, which
is very tough to say actually, because he did so
many good movies one after the other. That is probably
his crowning achievement. And he produced that. Okay, and uh yeah,
Little or from Sammy. I like the theme song, but
it's just so it's dumb. It's I don't it's so stupid,
and I don't like the leading man in it. I
think he's lame as hell. Yeah, it's just not good.
A little blue box I don't like, it's just yeah,
I think she got out at the right time because
she was disappearing in a lot of blonde Velvet is
not good. Temptations is not good, Like, her hardcore stuff
is not good. Like, there's very little of it that's
worth anyone's time unless you're like, unless you're specifically watching
it for the purpose it was made because you're hot
for Jennifer Wells. That's why you should watch it. If
you're watching it to see her act or do anything else,
you're gonna be very disappointed. Stick to the Sarno's and
the sixty stuff if you want to see her like
act and actually do something, because the hardcore stuff just
is not very good. Uh huh.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was telling our friend Alex to watch Little
Orphan Sammy just so you can see Neil Flanagan. But
I was like, I was like, I should have warned
him that the leading man is like an Alstone. He's
weirdo He's I mean, is he Albino?
Speaker 4: I don't know, he's just like like he's yeah, he's
just this gangly ass dude who only made like two
or three other movies. And there's a reason for that,
you know. I don't know who else they would have
cast actually, and who they could have cast in that
is the guy that the young kid that she's seduced
in Honey Pie, except he was gay in real life,
so that would not have worked. Okay, because he did
so he did a good bunch of gay horn around
that time too. Yeah, even Jennifer, Jennifer can switch one
of us, not me, but somebody.
Speaker 2: Well, Jennifer wells, we are going to bid ad or
now and talk about I do you think.
Speaker 4: She's great in this? Actually, Jennifer considering that because any
of the character is kind of like unknowable. I mean,
she's kind of like an adult. They describe her as
like an adult, like a woman child nympho in the
advertising or something, and she is that. She's very Marcia
Forbes and toys You're not for children, where she's into
like playing with dolls and she's obsessed with candy. So
there's like an innocence to her that feels like it
might be play acting for their relationship, but it might
not be. It might just be that she has like
arrested development or something. It's not me.
Speaker 2: It very easily could have been played obvious, like one
way or the other. But she plays it kind of
down the middle, like where is she really like a
little baby acting? Is she really mentally you know, stunted
or is this an act?
Speaker 4: Is she baby from a Thousand Pleasures? Right? Yeah? Or
is she just baby doll?
Speaker 2: Or is she baby doll?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Right, exactly.
Speaker 2: I do think that there's what she's doing influenced there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a baby Oh absolutely. I mean that movie was
condemned by the Catholic Church. Anybody who was around in
fifty six when that came out, they were still remembering
it like a decade later for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think there even are a couple of shots
in submission that are kind of you know, lens through
the slats of a it's not a crib, but it's
like a you know, a bed with posts, kind of
in the similar way that the baby doll marketing was.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, Sheba Britt, Sheila Britt. So yeah, speaking
about her name, yeah, so I had also I've heard
Michael Bowen Michael Bowen always calls her Sheba, and I
was like, why is he calling her Sheba?
Speaker 4: Well that's her real name, So her real name Michelle Ba.
Her real name Michelle Ba, but Sheba is the closest
to what her real name is. Sheba, so I think
and I think Sheila, yeah, because I think her most
popular usings are either Sheila Britt or Sheba Britt. But
her real name Michelle Ba. Now, something I haven't really
been able to figure out is you know, she has
this accent or she sounds kind of your but she's
from the South. She's a Southern girl. Yeah, she's from
South Carolina. I'm sorry, North Carolina. So I'm not sure.
Maybe she's a second furderation immigrant. Maybe her parents are
German and they moved, they came to America and they
had her. It's very interesting to trace her though, because
she I mean, she was involved with like dancing and
singing at a young age. She participated in a local
beauty pageant in the fifties, you know, when she was
just out of high school. And she had a good
theatrical background, so she did local plays. She was recruited
to join a production of Miranda, which I think most
people know now because it was made in forty eight
as a film. I think with David Niven. It's the
one about the It's a prittish one about a Mermaid,
and so she was cast in this production that was
put on in Philadelphia of Miranda as the mermaid in
the title role of Miranda. It's a big role for
someone she was like going by her birthday. She was
twenty two years old when she got that role, so
she was very young. And that play, that production left
Philadelphia and went off Broadway. That went to off Broadway
in New York in nineteen sixty or nineteen fifty nine
or nineteen sixty, I believe. So from there she kind
of became a presence in New York. She was doing
off Broadway plays. She was being quoted in like high
society columns where she described herself as like a Southern
girl with a Northern attitude.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Probably, Yeah, I included them in the show notes.
Speaker 2: So she's giving her like stats like I'm.
Speaker 4: I love that, and that's that's in a Pennsylvania paper,
which is crazy, but that again was picked up by
the by the by the News circuit and was publishing
a bunch of different papers around the country. But the
New York Daily News, she's on the town column where
she says, I'm an actress and I'm a proud Southern
girl too. But I'm tend to do some moonlighting in
the nightclubs. If I do this, I guess the man
down town will want my fingerprints. Well I've got news
for him. I will not hold hands with any cop
until I've met his family. And that was in nineteen
sixty and then sixty one. She sends some They say
she wrote a letter in from Darlington, South Carolina, which
is oddly close to where she is now. She's in
South Carolina now, but it says my name is Sheba Britt.
I'm thirty eight, twenty three fifty five. Do you think
my southern accent and northern view will be misleading if
I come up to your neck of the woods. I've
been reading about moonlighting and I feel like I could
be a good moonlighter. But does that mean I have
to date were wolves? I have no idea what that means.
I know, oh yeah, But the point is this, You
get your name in the papers and people are going
to say, oh, Sheba Britt with measurements. Yeah, she's some
southern girl, some blonde girl with attitude. So that I
without a doubt. I'm sure that led to her getting
casts in the Seducers, which was her film debut. All
the newspaper ads saying introducing the sensational Sheiba Britt. She's
spotlighted in the advertising campaign the trailer, and you know,
it seems like it's a Southern Fried kind of like
you know, melodrama that set out in the woods, which is,
you know, kind of in keeping with her North Carolina upbringing.
She does start posing in men's magazines. I've had an
article where it described her as one of the most
popular men's magazines in nineteen sixty four. Doesn't interview her,
but it's names her with a bunch of other models
who I've never heard of, But it does name her
as being very a successful pin up girl. That was
a Newsday magazine of all places. It was like, yeah,
she rere Brit, very very successful along with these girls.
Speaker 2: I don't see her as like the pin up type.
I don't know.
Speaker 4: I guess I do in that in the early sixties,
I do, But I think it's because we mostly know
her because she aligned with Sarno and was actually given
roles to act. So like I think you and I
and other people who know she brit will know her
as an actress because she's really good in her Sarno film,
she's given good roles, she's given a lot of good dialogue.
She can spar with Patricia McNair, which is very rare,
like she is very good in her Sarno films. So
by the time she's in submission, she's been she's kind
of had to wallow in some garbage, like she's in
the inserts to Seeds randomly. Don't know why that is.
She appears in inserts for lots of stuff. Around that time.
She was in inserts for like Softskin on Black Silk
and The Unsatisfied and a few other things. But she
stayed with Sarno until I think sixty nine, and then
she stopped. She was in Jerry Denby's Pleasure Plantation, which
I think was her last film maybe, and then that's it.
By the time she was in submission, she had married
Sam Stewart, who she'd work with a murder in Mississippi
where he sexually assaults her, which is horrible, and she
had a kid, she had a son. So when you
see her in Submission where she has this role where
there's no dialogue, but there's something about her character that
is mysterious because it's from these two sets characters pass like, Okay,
what did they do to her? Why do they do
this to her? By the time, she's like, yeah, she's
a mom with an infant home. Yeah, when she's not
cavorting around having sex with Gary Juden on camera.
Speaker 2: And this is her last year yea in film?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I think at that point, Yeah, because Marcy,
I think was her last Sarno film was Marci and
then Pleasure Pentation for Jerry Denby, which was shot you know,
off on location as well, just like Marci was. And
then that's kind of it. I think she probably saw
the writing on the wall. She's in Cargo with Love
at sixty nine two.
Speaker 2: Also Love Me Please, she's in there.
Speaker 4: Love Me Please with also was Joel Fernandez and Linda Boyce. Yeah. So,
like I think you can see if you watch her
career and you see that she's in these really good
roles in the Sarrono movies, and then she has to
be in stuff like Love Me ployees where she's she's
kind of barely in that and the inserts situations and
it's just roles that are calling her just be naked
and roll. That's such a start contrast to like the
swap and how they make it, which I think she's
terrific in. Yeah, yeah, she's still alive. She's she's old,
she's eighty nine years old. She lives in South Carolina.
We'll leave it at that, And I do feel like
I need to call her because I feel like times
running out. I think we confirmed that Michael Bowen had
spoken to her and interviewed her, which is promising because
I think she should be proud of her work for
SARG not because I think she's so good in that stuff,
you know. And if we're not gonna hear from Patriilla
McNair unfortunately, I'll be happy to hear from Shiba.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I rewatched The Deep Inside again the other night.
Speaker 4: And she still hasn't seen it.
Speaker 2: She's really great in that. Yeah, she's the you know,
conflicted lesbian part, and yeah, it's really fun.
Speaker 4: I love that I saw you to watch it. I
still need that Lost Picture show. I don't have it yet.
There's so many good people in that. But you did
post the picture Particia Air and that war crime of
Wig that is I don't know why she would so
actively sabotage herself.
Speaker 2: She always was wearing ridiculous wigs.
Speaker 4: No, she has a series of good wigs. This one,
I don't know what the hell she's thinking. I'm like, Pat,
is it because you're on your way out? Because she
didn't make that many more movies after that. I'm just like,
are you just doing this because you're you just feel done?
You know?
Speaker 2: I don't know Uda Erickson. I don't think she well, no,
she did wear a few wigs for Findlay, I think you.
Speaker 4: But usually it was like her hair there was just
done up pretty well, but that little it was usually
like that little not like a not like a Lulu,
not like a Louise Brooks, but it was kind of
not even like a helmet hair. I don't know how
to describe it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what you mean.
Speaker 4: It was short, shorter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyways, we're getting off topic. What else can we
say about Chila? Anything else?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean, I just want to hear Bowen get that
book out. I want to I want to hear from
these people. I know you've talked to them, you're hoarding
this information from us.
Speaker 4: But if you recorded the interviews, I kind of wish that. Well,
now we can't even I would say when the next
TVD Net Blueward comes out, but God knows when that's
going to be. But I kind of wish they had
been included in some of those where we had had
some of the audio interviews. If he recorded them, I
don't care if they don't sound that great, Like my
my Tlie Cochran interview doesn't sound great, but it has
good stuff in it. So Viniger Cinder mused.
Speaker 2: It, Well, Submissions hasn't had a new release since the
DVD days, so that is a negative is still there? Yep,
that is one that I think is I mean, it's
a it should be high in the priority list if
they if they're looking at this stuff, I think it's
an easy slam dunk.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what would you pair it with? It wouldn't do
by itself.
Speaker 2: Well, do you want to recreate the Times Square double
triple feature? I know you don't know.
Speaker 4: Vibrations is already out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Vibrations is already out.
Speaker 4: But and I don't want fluctuating, don't and you don't
want to fluctuations. It should be shoved on an in
hot blood double feature. That's the only way it works.
Speaker 6: Yep.
Speaker 4: I mean, if we had a weekend with Strangers, it
should be put out with submissions, so that that should
be that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, well if they could do love Me Please,
you could do that because it's got one and I would.
Speaker 4: Agree with that, except it's in color I don't like.
I typically don't like a black and white and the
color together, I know, just because uh yeah, I don't
know what I put submission with, probably another twisted sex title. Yeah,
the Good, the Bad, and Beautiful would have been great,
but AC already put that out as a bonus feature,
so I don't know.
Speaker 2: That should have been the main on that disc.
Speaker 4: Don't don't get was that on the Love after Death?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 4: I love both of those. I know you like.
Speaker 2: I don't like Love after Death.
Speaker 4: Oh I love it. It's so great, It's so crazy, and no,
it's in it. It's also made by like a group
of Puerto Rican filmmakers in New York, so it has
a very distinctive point of view that I think is
very interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll give it another shot, definitely should.
Speaker 4: It's fun. I love it.
Speaker 2: What's next.
Speaker 4: Fernandez?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well let's talk about your boy Juan Fernandoz.
Speaker 4: Yeah, who I think might have gone back to Brazil.
I think his wife just passed away, and I think
he moved back to Brazil. But this We've talked a
little bit about him previously, so I thought, now for
his hardcore work, what's that. Oh, well, he's very.
Speaker 2: Hot, one of the rare, Yeah, one of the rare,
like handsome and I mean he did he was a
crew and a performer, right well.
Speaker 4: He started as an actor and then he got into
Crewe through Victor Pretresvage. He did Love Me Please, which
he's in. So I think it was kind of a
I don't know what came first. It might have been
this and then no, Love Me Please might have come first.
I don't know. I know this was released in sixties
and seventy, so it was probably done late sixty nine.
I don't remember when Love Me Please was released, so
I don't know when that production was. But yeah, very sexy.
I think most people would remember him from this as
the star of the Amazing Transplant, which is cut on
Blu Ray. Unfortunately that was a huge oversight on Agfast part,
missing some good nudity in there too. Actually, now that
I now I think about it, anything was male well
both like there's some graphic stuff that's been cut out.
I guess I didn't put you two and two together
that he was the guy from Amazing Transplant until I
think I confronted it with Georgina Spelbin actually because I
remember that. She said, oh, I had the biggest crush
on Joane Fernandez. I said, really like a crew member,
because I never think of the people on the crew
being attractive because I just don't, or I didn't at
that time. Now I have lots of crew members i'm into.
But she said, yeah, well you know he was an
actor too. I was like what, and I brought up
a picture from Amazing Transplants said yeah, that's Jawah. I said, what,
Oh my god. Okay, well then no wonder everyone wanted
to have sex with this guy. So yeah, like he
was photographing people as Harry Flex was his big pseudonym
on the Domiano films, and then he went out to
LA and I started doing Hollywood films. He did a
lot of Chuck Norris films. He did Friday the Thirteenth,
Part four, I believe. Yeah. Yeah, he did the Nesting
which was arm and Weston. Because he'd done takeoff, He's
stropped through the looking glass. I mean, the guy really
learned so much good stuff from Petri Savitch and then
elevated it, like he became an elevated photographer better than
Petri Savache ever was no offense victor. But yeah, I
think for a long time he was the go to
photographer in hardcore. You knew that he was going to
bring his A game to everything and then he I
think Larry Ravine kind of worked not as an apprentice
under him, but I think he learned a lot from
Joa because he worked as like still photographer or assistant
camera on films that Joan made in the adult industry.
Speaker 2: I mean, did he did Deep Throat and Devil and
Miss Jones?
Speaker 4: Two of them he did, but you can't tell those
by the same guy. Yeah, exactly right. And then Members
with Miss Aggie, which is much better to look at
than experience. I think it's an overrated movie, but it
looks gorgeous. Story of Joanna he shot, I mean, and
then he went to San Francisco and shot some stuff
for him Domiano. There. I think he shot didn't issue
some stuff for oh what's his face? I forget their names,
Oh Edwin and Summer Brown. I think he shot some
Edwin and Summer Brown stuff.
Speaker 6: Too.
Speaker 2: He did a bunch of Chuck Morris movies.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's what I Yeah, Chuck Norricky did a
ton of Chuck Norris. Yes, I don't know what I
said before, but yeah, I think it was Chuck Norris
and froribably the thirteen point four he did. I think
he did Envision USA like a lot of stuff. So
he stayed very, very very very busy, and for years
he wouldn't do an interview because people always wanted to
talk him about talking about Deep Throat. So he's not
in the Inside Deep Throat Dock. He's one of the
only people that made the movie that isn't in it
because he said, I don't want to talk about Deep
Throat because it's not if you're a cinematographer, there's something
to brag about in that movie. There's nothing technically skilled
in that movie that if you wanted to talk to
him about like Devil, Miss Jones, story of Joanna, something,
you know, members of Miss Aggie. I think he would
talk and I think he finally did an interview with
I know Domiano Junior interviewed him for a doc which
I don't know when that's ever coming out, But now
I think he's back in Brazil. I think his wife
passed away, who'd been with for years, and I think
he went. I think he left California. I think he's
back in Brazil now, Oh okay, I have to double check.
We invited him out to the end the Flush series
because we were showing two movies he shot, we showed
Through the Looking Glass and take Off. So we offered
him full round trip tickets for him and his wife,
tickets to the Broadway show of his choice, a five
star hotel. We offered him everything. Never responded to us. Wow,
So I'm a little I'm a little bitter about about
Joan talking to other people when we offered him like
a full package, real red cart just real red carpet treatment,
because how valuable he was to both of those films,
and we wanted those to be like re premieres of
those movies, and he made them what they were. But yeah,
he never responded to our offers, and that was very upsetting.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, like I always say, like people's opinions on
their work change over the years, so you know, I
wouldn't take it personally.
Speaker 4: I just would have accept I would have rather heard
a know than ignoring me, you know, especially if it's
something where we're offering a substantial amount of money and goodies,
which we didn't really, to be fair, didn't offer to everybody,
just because you know, he was coming out for two
movies and we knew we hadn't talked before. Yeah, so yeah,
that was a bummer. And both their screenings look good too.
He would have really liked seeing those on the big screen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, too bad, nice clean prints. Well, we hope he's
doing well in Brazil.
Speaker 4: I do, I do? Yeah. Fernandez. Oh so he's credited
as Jan in this, but the credit is Juan and Gloria.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 4: Gloria is a blonde who is mostly she's known as
Alison Page. So she was the title star of Felicia
with Joe Ellen. She was in how many times for
Don Walter, So she's in this two Don Walter's movies.
She's in a ton of other District Pick stuff. And
I need to update her IMDb listing because I have
so much stuff with her in the press book. But
she used different names on everything, so she did so
many more movies and she's instantly recognizable. So when I
rewatched this, I was just like, wait, I've seen this
how many times I didn't know this was the girl
from Felicia. I don't know why I didn't click, Probably
because I was too focused on Joi, but that's probably why.
Who is she?
Speaker 2: Who is she in this?
Speaker 4: In submission, she's she's in the sex scene with him.
It's Juan and Gloria is how they're credited. So she's Glory.
She's the one he's having sex with. That's how they're credited.
Could have been his girlfriend at that time for all
we know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's a couple of girls in this that
are They just don't stand out to me, and I
don't know who they are, so it's gonna help me.
Speaker 4: Well, Susanne Landau, you should definitely know. Yes, Susanne Landau
is ultimate degenerated kid Zipper flash After the Ball Was Over,
which is great. I think people know that, but they
don't know they know that because it was excerpted on
the Something Weird Satan's Bed Scared Their Pants Off double feature.
There's like a little mini featurette about like these these
people trying to scare this heiress to death, And that's
an abbreviated version of After the Ball Was Over.
Speaker 2: Which is a distribet title, which is kind of the concept.
I mean it's it's sort of the concept of this
movie a little bit. I mean, yeah, they're not scaring her,
but there's some sort of gaslighting involved in this film. Yeah, yeah,
a little bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but she did a ton of stuff, like she is,
a lot of not good stuff either. She appears as
herself in changes for Dommiano. You can kind of see her.
They do. There's a behind the scenes like photo shoot
where she's in that with I forget the other actress,
but and she Yeah, she was around New York all
the way up until the very beginning of hardcore. I
don't believe she did hardcore. She might have been an
oral generation, but I don't remember now. But she's very
good and very recognizable. I'm trying to think of celebrity
she resembles. But yeah, you definitely know her, Kristen Stein,
you should definitely know. She's the blonde that she's instantly recognizable.
She's the first blonde that the older woman is with
in that filmed sequence. Yeah, with her with a bunch
of lesbians. She's the blonde. She's the star of the Procureur,
which is I think her biggest role. She's the star
of The Mind Blowers, which is another New York exploitation,
Moving and through the Looking Glass. She's the younger version
of Catherine Burgess. So she has a sequence with j
Me Gillis where he, you know, molests her. She was
in Sometimes Susan, which was a sag adult movie. She
played I think a nurse in that maybe, and then
there's a few other hardcore movies she did, but she's
in the Looking She's in Alice in Wonderland, she's in
that as well. But she's very recognizable. She's like a
willowy blonde. You'll know her. You know her if you
see her. And yeah, she's she's very recognizable in this.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember she was listed in the cast for
Silent Night, Bloody Night. Do you remember that movie? Yes,
she's inmates, yes, and I remember she stood out.
Speaker 4: On that one and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: So I remember looking her up after that. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so she's great. I mean, she was very young
when she did these movies. She was like, she was
literally eighteen years old when she started doing these movies.
She was an artist and she still is kind of
an artist, and she got in graphic she got into
graphic design. She went to the Pratt Institute in the eighties.
She was interviewed very briefly in Lei's McNeil's Other Hollywood
about her time the adult industry, and it was not positive.
And so I included in the show notes an article
where she actually sued Bill Milling for an adult movie
that she made for him, which with the working title
was Ava. I don't think it ever came out, but
it was shot in Newark, Newark Airport. There scenes shot
in Newark Airport. Actually I know exactly what that was.
They cut the scene out of the movie. I know
what that was. So she sued him because he was
She was told that the se the move is going
to be softcore. She showed up to the set and
she said, you're gonna have to have set hardcore sex
with your meal costar. And they threatened her because it
was a mock finance production. Yes, and they said you
will do this or will kill you, essentially, and she
sued them and got and got they the judge ruled
in her favor because Bill Milling never showed up to
the court date. So she got like, I don't know
what did it say in that article. It doesn't yep,
one hundred and fifty grand because Bill Milling said that
there wasn't going to be any hardcore in it round.
Speaker 2: It's just like it's such a stereotypical like story you
don't want to hear.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that doesn't help. Yeah, I'm bargained for acting has
caused her anxiety, mental cruelty, and depression. And the judge
was a woman, so that definitely helped. And yeah, that
was the last thing she did. That was in nineteen
seven January nineteen seventy seven.
Speaker 2: So I wouldn't worked against six if I just got
an easy one point fifty. What's that insulated? You know?
Speaker 4: I don't know. Well, no, I mean she I think
she used it to invest in maybe her future business
or whatever. No, actually, I think she maybe took it
to go back to school, because she went to the
Pratt Institute later, and then she also went to UCLA
and got a degree there too. I don't remember in what,
but she did like other acting in like local theater
and the New Jersey Theater and things like that. She's
still around. I've had her phone number for a long time.
I've just never called her because I don't know how
receptive she is to discussing. I only want to talk
the softcore stuff, to be honest, the hardcore stuff. She's
only in like four hardcore movies and they're all pretty
good quality except for blow Dry, which is not good. Yeah.
I want to know about like the procure and the
mind blowers and you know what it was like to
be a model. She was in a movie I think
called Events, which was an R rated movie. I think
Joy Bang is in it, and that one is lost.
I've been trying to find a copy of that forever.
Speaker 2: The movie that she's in that I really want to see,
which is has some crossover with some of our faves
here is Wendy's Place.
Speaker 4: That's good. I mean it's it's a historical interest. That
was Linda Boyce's last movie, Yeah, in a Terrible Wig,
before she'd bamboosed and left her casting business to Tally.
Speaker 2: I think it's one of the last, like Uda Linda
movies I haven't seen, Yes, because they were kind of
a kind of a package deal for a little while there.
Speaker 4: Yes, and I think it was shot in their apartment building. Yes,
because if I remember correctly, because it's Kamal Harulu. Yes, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it's fine. I don't know how you're gonna get ahold
of it now because the DVD's out of front from
something from Vinegar Syndrome Patrickson Patrick. Yeah, because because Tally
and he were in New York. Yeah, yeah, I mean
he had he was in a lot of sex scenes
with Linda Boyce and and uh.
Speaker 2: And uh what was going on and in that in
that apartment that they lived in build them to hear
the stories.
Speaker 4: Well, Tally has some good stories.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, yeah, all right, put that on the
table for now.
Speaker 6: Okay, she's gone.
Speaker 5: I like her.
Speaker 6: I don't think we should cut it, Dona.
Speaker 4: Oh, we need to talk about the arrests.
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell me about this. Yeah, So who was in Okay,
first of all, there's a scene in submission where they
are in the park, uh, a sex scene. Who is
the girl?
Speaker 4: It's like a flashback the girl in that scene. I
don't know what name she was on the movie. She's
credited as Samantha Siegel in the press book, but not
in the film. She's not credited. If she's credited on
the film, I don't know which. With the pseudonyms, is
her her real name? According to this article is Sally
Ann Siegel. I researched her. I found her. She lived
two She lives two streets away from me in Astoria.
So you better believe I'm knocking on that door. No,
I'm not gonna knock on the door, but I am
calling the phone. Also, she had a very long career
as a local dominatrix, because I have found ads for
her on like old you know, singles sex ad websites
with pictures of her, and I've confirmed with that scene
it is her. Okay, I don't know if she did
any other films. I didn't recognize her. If she did,
I don't know what pseudonym she used. That's something that
I will ask her when I call. But so the
arrest occurred because they shot the scene in Englewood, New Jersey.
So I'll just read this bits. It says sally An
Siegel and Gary Juden, both of New York City, were
cavorting in the buff in Alison Park yesterday afternoon when
two startled law for Law officers happened along. They were
on a routine patrol near the park when they spotted
the couple going through their paces for a cameraman and
producer not fifty feet from a path at city Hall. Okay,
they put their clothes back on. Alan Savage, the producer
and a part owner of S and G Films, a
recently formed company, called Monday to ask if it was
all right to film in the park. He conceded when
I called, I didn't say what kind of movie we
were making, so he didn't say they were going to
make a sex movie. After hearing the tale from actor
and actress whose heads were boud and proper contrition, they
pronounced the sentence, and I think they had to pay
a fine. Yeah, five dollars each for open ludness and
another ten dollars for court costs. So fifteen bucks for
getting caught in the nude in Allison Park in Englewood,
New Jersey.
Speaker 2: At least didn't confiscate the footage.
Speaker 4: They no, because it's in the movie, right, A Savage said.
On his way out of the courtroom, he commented on
the way his company had been treated. Everybody was so
nice to us. He said, we'd like to come to
Inglewood again. So that's way better than you know. Robert
of Findley and Jack Bradman's arrests in New Jersey when
they made all in the Sex Family. Literally two years later,
you know, they were all arrested, all of the cast
was arrested, you know, and that was one of the
first arrests. They were arrested later in Jersey as well
for another movie.
Speaker 2: I've heard several of these stories, you know, of police busts,
and you never really know where it's gonna go. Like
I literally just listened to the Sex by Advertisement commentary
with Jewelry's biographer, and Joel Reed was talking about shooting
that scene in Sex by Advertisement where he's like whipping
a girl on a tree in the park in Central Park.
Speaker 4: Yeah, cops came.
Speaker 2: By and he told them what they were doing. They're
shooting a movie, and they said, well can we watch.
So it's like, you never know what kind of cops
you're gonna get.
Speaker 4: Well, they did that with Venus and Firs. With Bella Donna,
there's what's his face. Joseph Marzano showed up with Belladonna
outside the New York Public Library with the Lions and
had Belladonna and other actress whip their tops off and
straddle the lions with a cop standing there monitoring the
scene for safety, so that they fell He didn't want
them to fall. That was the main concern. It wasn't
about them being new to public. He didn't want them
to fall in hurt themselves. That scene only appears in
a little tiny blip in the finished Venus in Furs,
But yeah, that was John Lindsay's Mayor Mayor ship. He
didn't care about that ship in New York. I don't think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's funny. Okay, So that is confirmed that, Yeah,
because you'd sent that that newspaper clipping and I was like,
this must be from that park scene in submission. Yeah,
there's no other parks.
Speaker 4: And I don't know what her name is. She's not
credited on the film, but she is in the press book.
Speaker 2: So what about that? I mean, she looks like mixed
race the made in submission.
Speaker 4: Not a clue. Again, don't know who, no other name,
no other names, none of those other names registered, Yeah
in those credits. So I have no idea.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you before we close up on submission,
what's in the deleted scenes. I haven't seen those.
Speaker 4: It's a lot of extensions of existing scenes. There's nothing
new in there, Okay, it's yeah, it's all just like
alternate takes, and you don't. I don't think you see
a clue from what I remember, so it's not that
especially interesting. There's more footage of like Jennifer Wells in
the bath, there's more scenes of Sheba Britt with Gary
Juden trying to think of some of the other things.
Those are the big things that I remember. Okay, it's
like six or seven minutes, I think.
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's not bad.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just outs.
Speaker 2: Basically, you just yeah, don't often get those on a
on a something weird disc back in the no which.
Speaker 4: Was a nice surprise. But then again, we also don't
get negatives of Chancellor films either. You really looked out
with this one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what the heck? How do we even get this? Then?
I wonder what's the story why? I don't know nothing
else did I don't know. We'll talk with Alex and
maybe we'll have an update next time.
Speaker 4: Well, Alex already knows that the Chancellor film stuff was
kept in a different lab which shuttered and all that
stuff was trashed, So I really don't know where that.
I don't know where this came from. I don't think
it was a movie lab because Chancellor didn't keep their
stuff at Movie Lab and nless it was something that
the Savage is kept there. That's the only thing I
can think of is that the Savage is deposited there
and just didn't care. And it wasn't it was something
that they only sub licensed to change the films. But
that doesn't seem that doesn't seem plausible because that if
they did submission there, they would have kept Wakening with
Strangers there too, I would think. And that wasn't there,
So well, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Let me say, yeah, if you haven't checked out our
Patreon yet, we are putting our show notes up there,
so check it out and subscribe for a measly three bucks.
I have to put it behind paywalk because sometimes there's
nudity and Patreon slaps my wrist if I don't so right,
Oh yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 4: The show notes have a lot of good stuff on
here also because I have We include a lot of
a lot of advertisements for Jennifer Wells's shows with her stills.
We have a lot of newspaper articles. We have links
to stuff about where they are different pass and crew.
Speaker 2: Yep, it's their packed, their media. Check them out and you'll. Yeah,
you can spend a good couple hours.
Speaker 4: Digging through all these show notes specifically for this title,
are this is a thirty four page document, and is
it for a little idea of what it's like? Gentry
creates this and it's literally like our show link and
a few little things, the little comments that's like a
I don't know. It takes up like a third of
the page. It explodes to thirty four pages over the
course of like forty eight hours. When we did, we
dig into the We dig into the research, Gentry writes
his intro. We add updates to it, like, yeah, we
we these show notes. I'm saving copies from myself too
now at this point, okay, good yeap. So also, so
part of this I wanted to mention was I found?
So we found? We also include a ship ton of
newspaper ads for submission, which, let me tell you, trying
to find the grass for submission with a one word
title like that very difficult. Did you use alexaxt or
three hours? I did, That's what I had to do,
But I know I missed some because not every newspaper
ad has that has a tagline. The tagline so the
earliest one that we found for submission. It was released
in Awesome, Texas March twenty ninth, nineteen seventy, so that's
the earliest release date for this film was in Texas.
And then it did not open in New York until
much later. Where was that it opened in? It opened
in LA before it opened in New York. It opened
opened in the LA area November nineteen seventy at the
Pussycat Theater, which is pretty substantial. It didn't play the
Pussycat in New York that I can find, which is
very interesting. But I also found some ads showing this
as late as nineteen seventy two, where it was retitled
as the Love Cult, not to be confused with the
sixty seven Love Cult or sixty six Love Cult. And
then the latest that I could fine it showed showed
it to drive in in Saint Louis in nineteen seventy
four on the trip at the bottom of a triple
feature with a little miss in a sense, which is
the Chris Warfield movie and Cries of Ecstasy Blows of Death,
which is that that's what Tony Anthony Weber of Sandy
Carey like sci fi sex movie. Yeah, And then submissions
at the bottom of the bill.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and it's also with snow bunnies.
Speaker 4: Yes, it played it with snow bunnies exactly.
Speaker 2: It's just funny.
Speaker 4: And then Potpeourrie, which I guess is a bunch of loops,
but they described that as Triple X, which, as we
know nineteen seventy two. Looking at this list, none of
these are Triple X. Snow Bunnies, A softcore submission is softcore.
Potpourri is probably softcore. Bet is a bunch of loops
thrown together.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, we talked a little bit about that recently.
I can't remember if it was off or online about
how triple X.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think last episode we did with Alex Yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, doesn't necessarily mean hardcore all the time, usually not,
but sometimes it does.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just a great a great market what's the
word marketing at right? Right? Exactly?
Speaker 2: Well, before we go, did you want to do the
Mount Rushmore?
Speaker 4: Sure? I only I only realized we were doing this
near the end. I was like, wait, what is this edition? Now?
So the fun thing about this is, you know around
Mount Rushmore only has space for four heads, right, mm hmmm,
so are you keeping it to four? Yeah? Are you
just you do ever kept it four?
Speaker 7: Oh?
Speaker 4: You amended it? That's what it was. I was like,
oh wow, okay, yeah, I'm intrigued. I haven't thought. I
kept mine to myself until I announced them live.
Speaker 2: But yeah, okay, Well, because this is my Rushmore, this
isn't ranking, this is just four favorites, yes, of course, yes,
and well this was brought about because Alex and I
were talking and we both wanted to put Jennifer Wells
on our on our Mount Rushmore. So Jennifer Wells is
on mine. I know. That's why I want to hear this.
I have Jennifer Wells. Oh this is okay, Mount Rushmore
of sixties sexploitation?
Speaker 4: What only New York apparently.
Speaker 2: Stop, you'll have your chain.
Speaker 4: I can't believe, and I can't believe neither you put
any California women considering how many California women there are
in the genre.
Speaker 2: I was just, what, you're not put.
Speaker 4: This person on here? Oh you're saying it was first?
It was immediately, I'm not.
Speaker 2: I didn't. I'm not trying to overthink it. I don't
know if Alex did.
Speaker 4: See I'm a classic overthinker. Immediately it was like what
I don't know.
Speaker 2: Okay, so mine is Jennifer Wells. Gotta put my girl,
June Roberts, Gretchen Rudolph, and gig Dar. That's my Mount Rushmore. Wow,
all right, go ahead.
Speaker 4: Let's see. Okay, So Mount Rushmore. Do you want me
to stick to New York? You want me to do come?
Speaker 2: I want you to do whatever you want to do.
And so I also want to say, like, when I
was thinking about it, I also in my stipulation or
I don't know, my qualifier was also like someone who's
been in you know, at least more than three or four.
You know, I was thinking about Kathy Crowfoot as well,
but I'm like, oh, she was only in like four movies.
Speaker 4: So yeah, she wasn't in that many.
Speaker 2: I have to have a significant presence, That's what I mean.
Speaker 4: I'm thinking in terms of like, but also I want
to think of like impact. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I I considered impact a little bit, but not maybe
as much as you might, yeah, because then it would
be tough for me to put like took me to
put like Uta Erickson because that she didn't even use
that name on like one movie.
Speaker 4: Okay, So my Mountain Rushmore of sixties exploitation actresses. I'm
going to stick to York for my peace of mind. Yeah,
that's why i'd be like, what the fuck am I thinking? Okay,
my mount Russmore of New York actresses, GZ Darlene, I'll
go chronological Gji Darlene Janet bans it because I think
she made I think the most movies of anybody in
New York at that time, Linda Boyce and Patricia McNair.
I believe, Sorry Uta, I worship the grand Utah walks On,
but I think Linda Boyce is more important because she
was an actress and an agent. Protessa McNair I think
is the most important Sarno actress of that era if
it wasn't gonna be Peggy Stephans. But also Peggy's different
because she also worked behind the scenes. Know what, I'm
swapping them out, Britrisa McNair are swapping out for Peggy Stephens.
So GJ Darlene because I think you have to make
an important impact. For Michael Findley to ask in an
opening credits graffiti, whatever happened to JGI Darlene? That means
that people in the end street who didn't ever even
work with her, are familiar with her, right, so that
I think she was an important the most important New
York nuty cutie. Sorry Darlene Bennett. That's another one I
would have mentioned too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also considered putting the Bennett twins together.
Speaker 4: I only liked Darlene. Sorry Don, Don, I don't like you.
She was always very gawky and strange and was always
seemed like she was Darlene always seemed like she was
having so much fun, and she had like she had
a very like so there was something very regal posture
about her, considering she was just like some Jersey girl
or Brooklyn girl.
Speaker 2: I always joke that Don's the ugly one, but that's mean.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't disagree. I wouldn't. I wouldn't say it, but
I wouldn't disagree. Okay, if I heard it, so you
can say it, I'll agree with it, which is crazy
because they were twins. But just Darlene. I don't know.
Darlene got the good jeans. I have no idea, and.
Speaker 2: She had she had the aura, as the kids say
these days.
Speaker 4: Darling's great. Actually, you know what, let me show me thing?
Am I changing this? That's fine cause I had to
have a blonde in there. They're all brunettes, but honestly.
Speaker 2: Sandy blonde.
Speaker 4: No, you know what, I changed my mind. This is
official now, Okay, Darlene Bennett okay, Janea bans It, Linda Boyce,
and Peggy Stephens okay. And also because it's New York
and I always think of that as darker anyway, so
it makes sense for them all to be brunettes for me. Yeah, California.
Actually most of the women I would think it for
California are blonde.
Speaker 2: From Sunshine Blonde.
Speaker 4: Yea more blondes are in that. Actually, blondes and redheads
would be my California.
Speaker 2: All right, So Alex alex is four, is Jennifer wells
Uda Erickson, Linda Boyce, and Sheila Britt Chiba Britt.
Speaker 4: I agree with all but one of those.
Speaker 2: Yep, I know you do.
Speaker 4: I think she Brit makes sense because she's a big
Sarno girl. I'm surprised. No, Pat McNair, what the fuck.
I think she was the best actress that Sarno ever
worked with in the sixties. Like, I don't think there's
any competition there except for Peggy. I think he's terrific.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was Gretchen or Patty on my list, and right,
and you go.
Speaker 4: Over your honorable mentions for everyone.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess I could.
Speaker 4: Basically your short list, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Judy Adler, I love Judy.
Speaker 4: She's great.
Speaker 2: Maria Elise, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 4: A very good pick.
Speaker 2: Actually, I'm surprised you didn't.
Speaker 4: She didn't make that much in New York. That was
that substantial. Yeah, but I like her better as a director, actually, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Joanna Mills, it's.
Speaker 4: A good one too, very good Sarno stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I had the Bennett twins together.
Speaker 4: Mm hmmm. I feel like that's really giving down a
lot of grace.
Speaker 2: Let's leave don alone.
Speaker 6: I'm gonna get you from that way.
Speaker 4: A'm gonna get you. I'm gonna get you.
Speaker 2: I'll end it there.
Speaker 4: What do you say, Sure, you need to get some Oh,
we do need to figure out if we should be
trying to do any merch. I love the idea. I
love the idea of the shirts. Well listen because you know,
because you know, we had a listener, ask say, because Dakota.
The last episode of the Closing, the Close Closing line
was Bob Krusty's jerking it somewhere, and that was a
really great closing line. So, you know, a listener, a
friend of mine reached out and said, uh, if that's
ever on a shirt, I will buy it. So I
was like, that's good, since syndicate a good idea for
since syndicate T shirts are closing lines. So sort of
like Alex saying, I can't wait to forget these movies. Yeah,
it's a great line. I don't know if I've had
any good closing lines. I don't remember, but you know
other things have.
Speaker 2: I can't remember them, but I know that I know
that we Oh, well, one is too long, didn't I
say something like you can't have two camp icons in
a movie and consider it lesser russ Meyer common lock Cabin. Yeah,
it's too long.
Speaker 4: It's not like it's not quippy and quick like Bob
Krusty's jerking it somewhere. Well, it's a joke. Whether a
picture of Bob Kreussey in like the Granny Good, Granny
Good drag with that quote would be great, I think,
because then you have to have a shot of him
like mugging for the camera in the drag to say
he's hir get it somewhere. I think that's a good idea.
Speaker 9: I think it's a good idea.
Speaker 8: Thank you for listening to hear more shows from the
Someone's Favorite Productions podcast Network.
Speaker 2: Please select the link in the description. Hello and welcome
to Tumbleweeds and TV Cowboys. My name is Hunter.
Speaker 8: In this podcast, I'll be joined by a different guest
each week to discuss a classic Western movie or TV show.
Speaker 2: I've been a fan of classic westerns for as long
as I can remember, and in recent years they've become
very nostalgic for me. I love the esthetic, the tropes,
and I love seeing different filmmakers takes on them at
their best. They're incredibly entertaining, rewatchable, and some of my
all time favorite movies are Westerns.
Speaker 8: We'll mostly focus on Western movies made in Hollywood, but
we'll also be covering spaghetti westerns and one thing I'm
very excited to get into our Western TV shows.
Speaker 2: I've got some amazing guests coming on the show, film professors, historians,
and podcasters. And Tumbleweeds and TV Cowboys is part of
the Someone's Favorite Productions podcast network, and many guests on
the show will be from other shows on the Network,
thanks for listening,