Speaker 1: Oh thats are hello, and welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: This is the Cult of Conspiracy and my name is Jonathan,
Speaker 2: I'm Jacob and Jacob. We're getting a little meta today, sir.
Speaker 2: I do, I do want you to know that, but
Speaker 2: we are going to bring in a lot of scientific
Speaker 2: things to this conversation, just for those left brain logical,
Speaker 2: you know, intellectual type of individuals. I understand, you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes you need a little science to back up some
Speaker 2: of these claims. And I think that that's perfectly logical
Speaker 2: to think that way. And you know, I tried getting
Speaker 2: Sean on for this show tonight. He wasn't able to.
Speaker 2: I was gonna try and make it like a cult
Speaker 2: ex meta kind of conversation, but he had some shit
Speaker 2: going on. That's totally fine. I'm still gonna bring the
Speaker 2: fucking meta hammer today. Okay, it's gonna get a little wild.
Speaker 2: I do want to say I'm under the weather. So
Speaker 2: if my voice sounds a little raspy or whatever, then
Speaker 2: just know, you know, I'm I'm I'm hammering through trying
Speaker 2: to trying to make it happen. But and that's why
Speaker 2: I figured, you know what, at least we can talk
Speaker 2: about a topic that I have a lot of research into.
Speaker 2: I have a pretty pretty good understanding of what's going on.
Speaker 2: And we're gonna get weird today, sir, are you I am? Okay?
Speaker 2: So first off, we are going to be going on
Speaker 2: near death experiences. This is something that has been a
Speaker 2: passion of mine to to research and to try and understand,
Speaker 2: and so we have plenty of articles today that we're
Speaker 2: going to be getting into. If you don't know what
Speaker 2: a near death experience is or an ND, it's basically
Speaker 2: somebody dies, you know, whether it's on you know, the
Speaker 2: the operating table or wherever. Most of them the ones
Speaker 2: that have been very well documented and and tried to
Speaker 2: poke and prod and and no it's not this, and
Speaker 2: no it's not that it is this. It is that
Speaker 2: whatever certain claims can always be made if if it's
Speaker 2: just you at your house, right, But whenever you're on
Speaker 2: an operating table, then there's a lot that's that's a
Speaker 2: that's a different story. Right.
Speaker 3: So when we say near death, do we mean somebody
Speaker 3: that was pronounced dead, flatlined and all these things and
Speaker 3: then woke up? Are you talking about somebody who who
Speaker 3: was in a coma and then woke up from that,
Speaker 3: Like when you say near death, to what level do
Speaker 3: we mean here?
Speaker 2: Well, let's get to it, because I've had people come
Speaker 2: and tell me that they've had a near death experience
Speaker 2: and then I hear what they actually experienced and it
Speaker 2: wasn't a near death. So whenever I say near death,
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean like you almost died. No, like you
Speaker 2: died and then you somehow, you know, maybe you were
Speaker 2: resuscitated or something caused you to come back into this reality.
Speaker 2: But for a moment, for a glitching time, you existed
Speaker 2: somewhere as something else. That's the best way I can
Speaker 2: put it. And I like doing these kind of shows
Speaker 2: for mainly I like doing it so that people can
Speaker 2: just stop being scared to die, like I'm not. I'm
Speaker 2: of course you want to try and you know, push
Speaker 2: and postpone that as far as you can. But you know,
Speaker 2: most people today, in this day and age, are doing
Speaker 2: everything to get by, and they're operating on fear. And
Speaker 2: that fear is like, well what if I die and not?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, Like, it's always it's always
Speaker 2: something like they're they're operating out of fear, and I
Speaker 2: don't I don't like that because yes, death is unknown,
Speaker 2: uncharted territory, right, But at least I feel like these
Speaker 2: these stories, can you know, shed a little light on
Speaker 2: what may transpire once we die.
Speaker 3: I feel that, And I mean, aside from my own
Speaker 3: religious convictions being afraid of death, I understand people being
Speaker 3: afraid of how they're going to die. Right. Nobody wants
Speaker 3: it to be uh. Nobody wants to be slow and painful, right,
Speaker 3: nobody wants it to be some slow, agonizing months and years.
Speaker 3: And nobody wants to be burned alive. Nobody wants to
Speaker 3: drown to death. I'm like, the fear of how one
Speaker 3: is going to die, I completely get. I mean, I
Speaker 3: guess in some way I also have that. The fear
Speaker 3: of death, even as a youngster, has never made sense
Speaker 3: to me. It's like being afraid of taxes, like you're
Speaker 3: going to have to pay them regardless. Why are we
Speaker 3: afraid of them? It's inevitable exactly. And although and again
Speaker 3: religious dogma to the side. Here, aside from us not
Speaker 3: knowing what's on the other side, we have faith on
Speaker 3: what's on the other side, and some people have a
Speaker 3: conviction of knowing what's on the fine all the things
Speaker 3: I understand that. It's like, if anything, is the fear
Speaker 3: of the unknown, right, I think that could be the
Speaker 3: closest connection to this. But because it's an inevitable unknown,
Speaker 3: it's not like a fear of skydiving, and if you
Speaker 3: never experienced it, you don't know what it's about. But
Speaker 3: it's also the fear of the unknown. This is an
Speaker 3: unknown that no matter what you do and how you
Speaker 3: live and whatever, you're going to be confronted with it eventually.
Speaker 3: And I feel like that's people's biggest fear, is that
Speaker 3: because it is an inevitability and because there are so
Speaker 3: many unknowns around it, that's why they're scared. I don't know,
Speaker 3: but it's never really checked out to me, because it's like,
Speaker 3: if anything, shouldn't we just embrace it as a part
Speaker 3: of life. But I know I'm weird on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and everybody's different in regards to this.
Speaker 2: And look, I'm not trying to sit here and prove
Speaker 2: where we go when we die. This is not the
Speaker 2: point of this episode. It's to prove in my in
Speaker 2: the best way that I personally can what what caused
Speaker 2: me to come to the realization that we still exist
Speaker 2: once our bodies die is by reading thousands of near
Speaker 2: death experience stories. And now I'm not gonna lie. At first,
Speaker 2: I was trying to figure out what's the real truth,
Speaker 2: you know, or do we go to heaven? Do we
Speaker 2: go to hell? Do we go to somewhere else? Do
Speaker 2: we do we even go anywhere? Right? Just trying to
Speaker 2: figure it all out, And one thing persisted. I mean
Speaker 2: the stories vary, I mean they they vary from A
Speaker 2: to Z bro and all the way back to A.
Speaker 4: Like.
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to sit here and say that I
Speaker 2: know for a fact that everybody's going here. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying that, right, But one thing does persist, and that
Speaker 2: is that we go on like and that's the point
Speaker 2: that the entire point of this episode is just to
Speaker 2: prove that we do go on once the human body dies.
Speaker 2: And that might spount to me initially it was conspiratorial
Speaker 2: because you have your atheists out there that say, nah,
Speaker 2: definitely not right. Then you have you know, your religious
Speaker 2: people that out there like, well you do, but if
Speaker 2: you do this right, and if you don't, then you
Speaker 2: get that And maybe that's true, but you know, this
Speaker 2: is as you said, it's gonna be taken away from
Speaker 2: the dogma and just showing that you know, we do,
Speaker 2: you know, continue on. So now I find that to
Speaker 2: be awesome personally, No, just just to know that we
Speaker 2: do go on after this body, you know, expires, it's
Speaker 2: pretty awesome.
Speaker 3: I agree. I agree.
Speaker 2: So the first article we're going to be getting into
Speaker 2: today is Psychology Today, and this is one of two
Speaker 2: Psychology Today articles that we're gonna we're gonna be into.
Speaker 2: I actually have a story this gentleman that came on
Speaker 2: to the Meta Mysteries like dude, like a year ago,
Speaker 2: maybe longer. His name is David Ditchfield, and he talks
Speaker 2: about his near death experience and it is profound, and
Speaker 2: so I'm looking up information to try and present for
Speaker 2: the show today, and lo and fucking behold, Psychology Today
Speaker 2: wrote an article on him. I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I had this guy on my show. I didn't know
Speaker 2: that he was famous. How about that?
Speaker 3: That's little shit?
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, yeah. So for the people that are unaware
Speaker 2: of what a near that near death experience is, this
Speaker 2: is where we're going. A near death experience is the conscious,
Speaker 2: semi conscious, or recollected experience of someone who is approaching
Speaker 2: or has temporarily begun the process of dying, for example,
Speaker 2: during a cardiac arrest that is followed by a resuscitation.
Speaker 2: People who who recall near death experiences have described perceiving
Speaker 2: a variety of surreal phenomena, such as seeing them from
Speaker 2: above or passing through a tunnel of light. Reports of
Speaker 2: these experiences sometimes include religious or spiritual interpretations, and a
Speaker 2: fuel debates about whether a person's conscious can persist after death.
Speaker 2: Some scientists dispute that NDEs reflect post mortem consciousness and
Speaker 2: have sought to explain them in terms of changes in
Speaker 2: brain function during the process of dying, as they would, right, right,
Speaker 2: and that's not it's not to take away from sciencests
Speaker 2: like their job is to try and understand how the
Speaker 2: brain is working physically. Right, So that being said, what
Speaker 2: are near death experiences? So, thanks to advanced medical care,
Speaker 2: it has become increasingly common for people on the verge
Speaker 2: of dying to be revived and returned to normal consciousness
Speaker 2: even after their body has begun to shut down. A
Speaker 2: subset of these people recall episodes from the period of
Speaker 2: time before they awoke that are often extraordinary and personally meaningful.
Speaker 2: The descriptions may include some details that are particular to
Speaker 2: the individual, such as seeing a family member, and others
Speaker 2: that appear in some version in many people's near death
Speaker 2: experience reports. So what does this say? So how is
Speaker 2: a near death experience defined? It says a near death
Speaker 2: experience is simply an experience that a person reports having
Speaker 2: had while in a physical state in which the risk
Speaker 2: of death was imminent. Commonly, the person's heart temporarily ceased
Speaker 2: to function at some point prior to recovery, as after
Speaker 2: a heart attack. Reports of NDEs can include images, sensations,
Speaker 2: and other conscious elements that are often vivid and striking.
Speaker 2: So what are the common elements of a near death experience?
Speaker 2: The nature of a near death experience varies from case
Speaker 2: to case, but some features have appeared in multiple reports.
Speaker 2: Feelings of peacefulness or serenity are typical in NDE accounts.
Speaker 2: They may also include vivid imagery such as a bright light,
Speaker 2: movement through a tunnel, or vision of events from one's past,
Speaker 2: also called a life review. Some NDEs include out of
Speaker 2: body experiences in which one feels removed from one's physical body,
Speaker 2: and some reports describe encounters with other beings such as
Speaker 2: loved ones or anonymous entities perceived as angels. For some,
Speaker 2: the different elements of a near death experience may unfold
Speaker 2: in a in sequence, For example, passage into darkness, followed
Speaker 2: by a sense of leaving one's body and seeing it
Speaker 2: from outside, and then then an apparent encounter with a
Speaker 2: mysterious being, ultimately ending with a return to regular consciousness. Okay,
Speaker 2: so there's a beginning, there's a middle, there's an end.
Speaker 2: That's basically what they're trying to say, right, So, what
Speaker 2: are some examples of near death experiences? This is just
Speaker 2: a short one, so says. In one reported near death experience,
Speaker 2: a man whose heart had stopped beating and who's shown
Speaker 2: no signs of brain activity was subsequently revived. Later, he
Speaker 2: recalled having a countered a compassionate being during the episode
Speaker 2: who gave him a feeling of warmth. In another case,
Speaker 2: a woman described a memory of floating above her body,
Speaker 2: looking down at the doctors who were treating her and
Speaker 2: listening to what they had said. So most people would
Speaker 2: see that and be like, all right, I mean, can
Speaker 2: you clarify that? Can you prove that you did it?
Speaker 2: The answer is yes, Okay, this is why I say
Speaker 2: the operating table ones are studied, I mean fucking six
Speaker 2: ways to Sunday, bro. And some people are left baffled,
Speaker 2: like I don't know what to do with this information,
Speaker 2: you know, like, how is it possible that this person
Speaker 2: died on the operating table and they were able to
Speaker 2: see exactly what procedure and what tools I was using.
Speaker 2: If I had a stain on my shirt, how would
Speaker 2: they able to see that they were dead. There's no
Speaker 2: way they could have saw that. And even from the
Speaker 2: angle where they laid, they couldn't have known that because
Speaker 2: their heads all the way back there's they didn't lift
Speaker 2: their head up to look, you know. And so that's
Speaker 2: the talking point is that they believe that like these
Speaker 2: people are literally somehow their consciousness whatever you want to
Speaker 2: call it, is floating above where their body is laying
Speaker 2: there and is able to perceive reality as if it's
Speaker 2: still going.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So it's pretty wild. So how common are and dees?
Speaker 2: This is interesting, it says. Estimates vary, with some suggesting
Speaker 2: that as many as ten to twenty percent of people
Speaker 2: who have been declared dead have had a near death experience.
Speaker 2: So ten to twenty percent of all people who have
Speaker 2: been declared dead have had an NDE. It says in
Speaker 2: one study of patients who had survived cardiac arrest, nine
Speaker 2: percent of survivors who nine percent of survivors.
Speaker 3: Who could be interviewed reported a nd Okay, So heart
Speaker 3: attack victims, it's.
Speaker 2: Not always heart attack. A lot of the time, it's
Speaker 2: it happens in the brain too. So I hear this
Speaker 2: injury or something.
Speaker 3: A heart attack would be considered in my opinion, inde,
Speaker 3: especially if it's a heart attack that goes to the
Speaker 3: point of them coding right. Sure, yeah, And if you're
Speaker 3: saying that nine percent, we can round that up to
Speaker 3: ten percent. I don't feel weird about saying that one
Speaker 3: out of every ten heart attack patients that survive the
Speaker 3: experience say that they saw something on the other side.
Speaker 3: So ten percent is pretty wild. So one out of
Speaker 3: every ten it's pretty hat your heart attacks alone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty damn high, I would think, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: And also I wonder if you know people have them
Speaker 2: but then they forget, you know, kind of like a
Speaker 2: dream like they say that everybody dreams every night. I
Speaker 2: don't know if that's actually a fact or if that's
Speaker 2: a myth or.
Speaker 3: What but like most people do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like you know, how how often are you
Speaker 2: able to recount your dreams?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You know, because most of the time they're extremely different
Speaker 2: than what your reality is, right, and there's no place
Speaker 2: to compartmentalize that, So your brain's just I don't need that.
Speaker 2: There's nothing for me, there's nothing for me to gain
Speaker 2: from that. I think that that could be, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe those odds actually go up to fifteen or twenty percent,
Speaker 2: if that is you know, a case.
Speaker 3: Possibly, But okay, So of the people that have had indes,
Speaker 3: I will say that most people act like there's no
Speaker 3: way you can forget this. They can describe in very,
Speaker 3: very vivid detail, every aspect of their INDE. Right, And
Speaker 3: that being said, I wonder if there's something to do
Speaker 3: with how long they're out, Right, somebody who coded for
Speaker 3: five seconds as opposed to somebody who coded for five minutes,
Speaker 3: I feel like one would be I don't know, I
Speaker 3: don't know what the statistics are on this, to say
Speaker 3: that like one out of every ten heart attack patients
Speaker 3: or victims, whoever you want to call that has an NDE. Well,
Speaker 3: is that that one out of every ten codes for
Speaker 3: eight minutes? And like there's eight minutes of no oxygen
Speaker 3: genated blood going to the brain, and like this was
Speaker 3: their response, and they did wake up. Like I wonder
Speaker 3: what kind of nuances we're looking at here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure if it matters how long you're out,
Speaker 2: just as long as you are out. It's almost like,
Speaker 2: I mean, and I'm gonna bring it up, but like,
Speaker 2: uh fuck, what was it called d MT?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: DMT only lasts like a minute, two minutes, three minutes,
Speaker 2: depends on the person, right, But it feels like a
Speaker 2: fucking eternity, bro, like any literal eternity.
Speaker 3: So I mean, shit, I was there for both of
Speaker 3: your big trips. One of them lasted four.
Speaker 2: Like three minutes, was the second one. I think I
Speaker 2: allot to say one was like four minutes, the other,
Speaker 2: like they were both sub five minutes, like real shit,
Speaker 2: right right, And and but in that short amount of time,
Speaker 2: I was able to bring back so many things that happened,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: To that point, the first go round, when it was
Speaker 3: what would be considered a normal nose, you felt like
Speaker 3: you were only gone for a few minutes, and you
Speaker 3: were only going for a few minutes. The second time,
Speaker 3: You're only going for a few minutes, but you had
Speaker 3: a much different experience and it felt a lot longer.
Speaker 2: Right right, Well, I mean, hey, you know, whenever, whenever
Speaker 2: you're not having a good time, things tend to stretch
Speaker 2: out a little bit, you.
Speaker 3: Know, exactly. Time is relative, right, So I'm wondering if
Speaker 3: it's the same in the NDE world as well. I
Speaker 3: don't know, but that would stand a reason.
Speaker 2: I'll give you an example. So I the the most,
Speaker 2: the most amount of dreams that I'm able to recall
Speaker 2: is not necessarily from a night's sleep. It's usually from
Speaker 2: a nap. And normally I'll nap for fifteen, twenty minutes,
Speaker 2: thirty minutes, just a little kiddy cat nap, just to
Speaker 2: get me through the day, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: especially if you got a headache or something. You just
Speaker 2: want to rest your eyes for a little bit. And
Speaker 2: there's been times where I've laid down for ten minutes
Speaker 2: and I woke up and I thought that I I
Speaker 2: thought that I slept for eight hours because of the
Speaker 2: amount of dreams that I had, And it just doesn't
Speaker 2: make sense, you know. So I think that in this
Speaker 2: realm of the mind. Time is a non factor, or
Speaker 2: at least it's just vastly different.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, time works differently here kind of.
Speaker 2: Thing, right, right, So this is continuing on the Psychology
Speaker 2: Today article The meaning of NDEs. It says, given the
Speaker 2: remarkable stories of those who have near death experiences and
Speaker 2: a general curiosity about the nature of death and what
Speaker 2: does or doesn't follow it, NDEs have invited a variety
Speaker 2: of interpretations. Some find spiritual validation in the mysterious accounts
Speaker 2: of what may seem like a brush with the afterlife.
Speaker 2: Skeptics of that viewpoint instead to They point instead to
Speaker 2: potential brain based reasons for such vivid experiences. And of course,
Speaker 2: individuals who have survived in near death's state grapple with
Speaker 2: the meaning of their own experiences, and some report positive
Speaker 2: changes in their outlook on life and death. No matter
Speaker 2: the ultimate explanation for NDEs, experts encourage those close to
Speaker 2: these individuals to allow them to talk about these potentially
Speaker 2: impactful experiences and to respond non judgmentally. So, how how
Speaker 2: do people how do people who have near death experiences
Speaker 2: interpret them? So, people who who have near death experiences
Speaker 2: may find religious significance in what they remember they might.
Speaker 2: They might conclude, for example, that an out of body
Speaker 2: experience in the sense of movement toward light represented their
Speaker 2: soul departing for heaven, or that they interacted with an
Speaker 2: angel or God. These details of these interpretations seem to
Speaker 2: vary based on a person's religious background. For more broadly,
Speaker 2: people who have a NDE may feel that they have
Speaker 2: encountered something divine, a glimpse of the afterlife, or some
Speaker 2: other truth beyond the realm of normal.
Speaker 3: Okay, so that checks out to me too, I get this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's your experience. It's up to the interpreter,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: I've heard people wake up from Indie saying that they
Speaker 3: peered into hell, like true hell, and they get they
Speaker 3: wake up and they decide they are going to become
Speaker 3: a church goer and they're changed their life. Oh yeah,
Speaker 3: I've heard personally somebody that I know who saw the
Speaker 3: other side and there was nothing but black like it.
Speaker 3: It's nothing on the other side for him, So he's
Speaker 3: changed literally nothing about his life. I mean, it runs
Speaker 3: the gambit for sure.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, everybody's so different, dude. I heard one
Speaker 2: like one of the craziest near death experiences that I
Speaker 2: heard was from like this little girl. It was like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, twenty years ago or something like that,
Speaker 2: and she's talking about how she went to Hell and
Speaker 2: she saw that Michael Jackson was there. Ah shit, I
Speaker 2: mean so it's.
Speaker 3: Also feel like most Disney adults go there too.
Speaker 2: But anyway, Yeah, my point is is that that's how
Speaker 2: wide ranging the possibilities are with the near death experience.
Speaker 2: Ye and probably similarly to like a DMT trip, very
Speaker 2: wide ranging, you know, say, yeah, with a dream whatever. Right,
Speaker 2: So our near death experience is proof of life after death? Okay,
Speaker 2: So while many people interpret vivid near death experiences as
Speaker 2: evidence that he since consciousness or soul continues to exist
Speaker 2: after death, from a scientific perspective, i NDEs do not
Speaker 2: prove that life continues after death. While NDEs are not
Speaker 2: fully understood, various potential explanations do not involve a disembodied
Speaker 2: consciousness have been explored. That being said, I mean, science
Speaker 2: can't prove one way or another a soul, a consciousness
Speaker 2: or whatever. Right, Like, they have a hard time with that.
Speaker 3: They've done the experiment with the weight, right, and after
Speaker 3: a person dies they get a few ounces lighter, and
Speaker 3: like that is a measurable thing. And they have said
Speaker 3: they've speculated that that is the soul leaving the body, right,
Speaker 3: So like they they think that the soul is at
Speaker 3: least quantifiable in that way. But I mean, who's to
Speaker 3: say that your ethereal self actually has a mass associated
Speaker 3: with it? Right there? They're they're grasping its straws, trying
Speaker 3: to find some way to quantify the unquantifiable.
Speaker 2: Right right, How do you measure what is immeasurable? Exactly exactly? So?
Speaker 2: So how do scientists explain near death experiences? So? And
Speaker 2: this is not an across the board understanding, it's just
Speaker 2: this says. Multiple hypotheses have been proposed, with some bearing
Speaker 2: on particular elements of near death experiences. For example, out
Speaker 2: of body experiences in NDEs may be accounted for by
Speaker 2: the disruption of the temporal parietal region key to the
Speaker 2: sense of embodiment as the brain approaches death, and some
Speaker 2: have suggested that the tunnel imagery of many NDEs is
Speaker 2: due to the effect of slowed down blood flow on
Speaker 2: the retinas. However, the neurological basis of NDEs is not
Speaker 2: yet fully understood, and some researchers are open to alternative
Speaker 2: accounts that go beyond brain activity. That's what I'm interested
Speaker 2: in it because to say that you know your soul
Speaker 2: or your consciousness solely resides in your brain, that doesn't
Speaker 2: sound right. I what do you think?
Speaker 3: So? I also believe that soul and consciousness are two
Speaker 3: different things. Okay this before right? So sentience consciousness and
Speaker 3: your spirit or your ether or your whatever, your soul.
Speaker 3: I think these are three completely different things, right. I
Speaker 3: think that your sentience and consciousness both reside in your brain.
Speaker 3: I just Jacob speaking on behalf of Jacob. I believe
Speaker 3: that your soul resides in the entirety of you.
Speaker 2: Okay, So like whenever you.
Speaker 3: Say, like trust your gut, you got that gut feeling,
Speaker 3: or a heartbreak, it actually physically hurts in your chest
Speaker 3: even though your heart is fine, right, Like you're you're
Speaker 3: physically okay, but you feel actual pain in your rib cage,
Speaker 3: in your chest right, or when you have such agony
Speaker 3: that your brain goes into a fog. I am of
Speaker 3: the belief that you're so resides in the entirety of you,
Speaker 3: in your body and in your mind. I think that
Speaker 3: your soul has to connect it all otherwise it doesn't work.
Speaker 2: That's just me, okay, yeah, I mean that's that's a
Speaker 2: thought for sure. I personally, you know what, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: save my opinion for later because I want to, you know,
Speaker 2: read all this and better understand it my own self.
Speaker 2: So the next question is is do hallucinogenic chemicals like
Speaker 2: DMT explain near death experiences. So one hypothesized explanation for
Speaker 2: near death experiences is that the body releases the hallucination
Speaker 2: inducing chemicals such as dimethyl trip tomine or DMT when
Speaker 2: it is near death, but this has yet to be established.
Speaker 2: There are similarities between experiences caused by hallucinogens and near
Speaker 2: death experiences. However, there is evidence that ketamine has effects
Speaker 2: that are more similar to NDEs than the effects of
Speaker 2: d MT. I wouldn't expect.
Speaker 3: That, ah, I don't know, dude. I know people that
Speaker 3: have experienced ketamine k holes, and right right right, I'm
Speaker 3: just I've never experienced ketamine or pure DMT. I should
Speaker 3: say that this is strictly speaking from ignorance, but from
Speaker 3: the outside looking in you getting lost in a K
Speaker 3: hole versus you having a very deep DMT trip for
Speaker 3: five minutes. I feel like we're having two different conversations.
Speaker 3: At the end of that. I know people that have
Speaker 3: got lost in k holes at raves and shit, and
Speaker 3: I know people that have tripped balls on DMT at raves.
Speaker 3: They have very very different reports at the end of it.
Speaker 3: So to say that these are comparable, I feel like
Speaker 3: that's trying to compare getting high to getting drunk, Like
Speaker 3: it's not the same conversation we're having. And I'm not
Speaker 3: saying one is necessarily better or necessarily worse. I'm saying
Speaker 3: it's very different.
Speaker 2: There is a lot of positivity out of people that
Speaker 2: are getting ketamine treatment. I think they're using it more
Speaker 2: now for like depression and what is it called, dudes
Speaker 2: do PTSD.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, But I've also seen dudes do AAHUASCAR retreats
Speaker 3: and DMT treatments for their PTSD as well. And that's
Speaker 3: the thing. PTSD is not like a one size fits
Speaker 3: all thing. What was so traumatic to one guy to
Speaker 3: give him post traumatic stress versus what was so traumatic
Speaker 3: to this other guy. It could be very different things.
Speaker 3: It could be the exact same experience, but they their
Speaker 3: bodies and their brains reverted in very different ways. So
Speaker 3: it's That's what I mean. Like, as far as medical
Speaker 3: practice goes, sometimes DMT is the cure. Sometimes ketamine sometimes
Speaker 3: just like talking about it and there's no one size
Speaker 3: fits all. Yeah, but again it's comparing ketamine to DMT.
Speaker 3: That is quite a claim.
Speaker 2: I've done both.
Speaker 3: I only do you done ketmine?
Speaker 2: Yeah, just one time, and it wasn't a lot, Like
Speaker 2: I'm just out of curiosity more than anything, because I
Speaker 2: knew that it had like psychedelica. I'm I'm always down
Speaker 2: to try something psychedelic, not acid, not doing acid, but mushrooms,
Speaker 2: d MT four aco five me e o, shit like that.
Speaker 2: I'm down for that being said. I did. I did
Speaker 2: try ketamine, And to be honest, bro, I just looked
Speaker 2: over to Homie and I was like, he was like,
Speaker 2: what do you think. I'm not gonna call him out.
Speaker 2: He was like, what do you think? And I was like, Bro, honestly,
Speaker 2: I just feel fucking retarded. Like I feel like I
Speaker 2: feel like I got dumber. That's what I like. My
Speaker 2: brain wasn't working. I didn't necessarily feel an extreme intense
Speaker 2: sense of calm, nothing like that. But I don't maybe
Speaker 2: I didn't do enough. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I've I've heard that though, right, And
Speaker 3: that's the thing. You get somebody who's got like, uh,
Speaker 3: not eighty HD, but like somebody who literally their brain
Speaker 3: is on six different levels at any given point, right,
Speaker 3: and their their their brain never stops running. They got
Speaker 3: this going on, da da da da da da da
Speaker 3: da da da, and it's all NonStop. Ketamine can be
Speaker 3: used to kind of like tone that down of it
Speaker 3: and get them singled not tunnel vision. They can focus
Speaker 3: not like it's not like it's aderall, but it like
Speaker 3: it shuts off the excess and then they kind of
Speaker 3: dumbs them down for lack of better words right now.
Speaker 3: I've also heard people that were already not gonna call names,
Speaker 3: but they were already not firing on all cylinders if
Speaker 3: you catch my drift, uh, and then they tried ketamine
Speaker 3: and they just got like retarded off of it. Then
Speaker 3: on the other side, you get the person that's brain
Speaker 3: never stops firing and they're going crazy. They tried DMT.
Speaker 3: It's even more so you get the person that's kind
Speaker 3: of not firing on all the cylinders on DMT, all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, they're like firing on all cylinders. It's
Speaker 3: like the limitless drug for them, and like, what the
Speaker 3: fuck this is? This is how people think normally, and
Speaker 3: it's like, I mean not really, but like okay.
Speaker 2: Well and this is you know. I did multiple episodes
Speaker 2: on researching DMT and DMTX over in London with the
Speaker 2: continuous drip for an hour. I really wanted to try
Speaker 2: and understand that a little bit better supply quote unquote
Speaker 2: mapping the DMT realm and I did that on Meta
Speaker 2: a few months back and it was fascinating. There are
Speaker 2: like a lot of crazy like realizations that they were
Speaker 2: able to come to. But I don't know. I'm yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to disagree with this kind of me now.
Speaker 2: I am saying that out of a point of ignorance.
Speaker 2: I've only ever tried it once and it probably wasn't
Speaker 2: even enough, so don't take my word for that. Fair
Speaker 2: Fair that being said, it says, how are people affected
Speaker 2: by near death experiences? This is the most profound thing
Speaker 2: because it's one thing to say that, you know, a
Speaker 2: dream made you change your life. Not many people are
Speaker 2: saying that, you know, but a near death experience, people's
Speaker 2: lives are turned upside down. Usually for the better. So
Speaker 2: near death experiences can leave a lasting impression on the
Speaker 2: person who has survived. Among the transformative effects described by
Speaker 2: those who had NDEs are an increased sense of purpose
Speaker 2: and appreciation and a reduced fee of death. If that's
Speaker 2: all that happens, that's what a blessing, bro right, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. So it says a person may
Speaker 2: report becoming more open and loving in the aftermath of
Speaker 2: an NDE, and in some cases, the person may perceive
Speaker 2: that they have gained intuitive abilities, such as seeming to
Speaker 2: know what someone is thinking or feeling. So telekinesis, well, telepathy,
Speaker 2: not telekenes excuse me, telecanes moving shit, my bad. So
Speaker 2: somebody comes out of a near death experience and they
Speaker 2: get like telepathy. I mean, that's what some people say.
Speaker 3: I have never heard one of these claims. Okay, let's
Speaker 3: go there.
Speaker 2: Hey, that's psychology today right there. That's a mainstream science
Speaker 2: article right there, you know.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: So and so that's just the first article. I really
Speaker 2: just wanted to pull that one up so that so that,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of lay the foundation, lay the groundwork
Speaker 2: a little bit. Another article I wanted to get into
Speaker 2: as far as laying the scientific groundwork is from science
Speaker 2: inculture dot com. Never visited this website, don't know how
Speaker 2: awesome it is or not, but this article seemed very interesting.
Speaker 2: So this was an article written on June eleventh of
Speaker 2: this year, so pretty interesting. So it's always evolving, that's
Speaker 2: what I like about it, it says. A recent article
Speaker 2: on BBC Science Focus provides a revealing glimpse into the
Speaker 2: way that the study of near death experiences has been changing.
Speaker 2: When neuroscientists Mario Beauregard and I wrote The Spiritual Brain,
Speaker 2: which I guess was a book or an article or
Speaker 2: something like that in two thousand and seven, treating NDEs
Speaker 2: as scientifically researchable generally meant debunking them. For example, in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety nine, British psychologist Susan Blackmore discounted the idea
Speaker 2: that they were life changing. In her quotes, the limited
Speaker 2: evidence available suggests that this change is a function of
Speaker 2: simply facing up to death, not having not of having
Speaker 2: a near death experience. But when endears behave altruistically, this
Speaker 2: helps read their nd memes, so that ninety nine memes,
Speaker 2: that's what she said.
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2: Canadian science journalist Jay Ingram noted in two thousand and
Speaker 2: five that the idea that NDEs might be genuine experiences
Speaker 2: is end quotes repellent to many Jesus dude brutal uh
Speaker 2: Yale University psychologist Paul Bloom, author of a number of books,
Speaker 2: probably spoke for the majority when he said in two
Speaker 2: thousand and six in his quote, if what you mean
Speaker 2: by soul is something immaterial and immortal, something that exists
Speaker 2: independently of the brain, then souls do not exist. This
Speaker 2: is old hat for most psychologists and philosophers, the stuff
Speaker 2: of introductory lecturers. So talking all kinds of shit on
Speaker 2: the soul and consciousness, whatever you want to call it, right,
Speaker 2: this is what.
Speaker 3: This is an old hat for entry level psychologists.
Speaker 2: Yeah, basically just saying it's like low hanging fruit and
Speaker 2: it's easily debuncable.
Speaker 3: I will have to respectfully disagree on that point and
Speaker 3: again take away religious dogma here. But most psychologists that
Speaker 3: I know, and I know a good number of them,
Speaker 3: are religious individuals themselves. So to say that, oh, any
Speaker 3: real psychologist knows that the soul is a mental construct, like,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, the data proves that that is inaccurate.
Speaker 2: My boy, Any Harvard professor with his salts knows this.
Speaker 3: Good God to tell me you're a pompous asshole without
Speaker 3: telling me you're a pampas asshole. Well, that's academia, right,
Speaker 3: And we've talked to shit on academia for how many
Speaker 3: years now, And because it's you know, go with the
Speaker 3: status quo, and if you decide to go against the
Speaker 3: status quote, you're no longer in that group.
Speaker 2: And so a lot of them don't ever step outside
Speaker 2: the line. So this guy right here, well, these people
Speaker 2: right here that were saying that the British psychologists and
Speaker 2: the Yale University psychologists, both of them were probably just
Speaker 2: in lockstep with whatever the understood literature of the time was.
Speaker 3: Fair.
Speaker 2: Yeah, however it says that it didn't age. Well, it
Speaker 2: says our book was one of It was one of
Speaker 2: a growing number of exceptions, not in the sense that
Speaker 2: we were boosters, but in the sense that we were
Speaker 2: writing for those who are prepared to consider the possibility
Speaker 2: that there might be an authentic evidence, there might be
Speaker 2: authentic evidence of the survival of the human mind at death.
Speaker 2: Since then, a steady stream of corroborative research means that
Speaker 2: the facile explain aways that worked so well thirty years
Speaker 2: ago are no longer suffice. Thus we come to cognitive
Speaker 2: neuroscience neuroscientists Christian Jared's recent article, which offers a more
Speaker 2: neutral approach than in the past. This is his quote.
Speaker 2: They leave their bodies, witness a bright light, and return
Speaker 2: forever changed. But do survivors of near death experiencers or
Speaker 2: of near death experiences truly glimpse into the great beyond?
Speaker 2: New research into the brain's final moments could decode these
Speaker 2: visions at life's edge. So you know, that's at least
Speaker 2: a step in the positive direction towards saying that these
Speaker 2: people aren't crazy.
Speaker 3: You know, right.
Speaker 2: It says the hope of fully naturalizing ends remains. That's
Speaker 2: a given. But in this and many articles like it,
Speaker 2: the dismissive just you wait tone that we that we
Speaker 2: used to see so much of is gone. Another quote here,
Speaker 2: It says there are plenty of documented NDEs, and many
Speaker 2: continue to baffle scientists and raise perplexing questions about the
Speaker 2: nature of consciousness and life itself. Should we believe them all?
Speaker 2: My reaction, my reaction has always been skepticism tinged with wonder.
Speaker 2: It's hard to listen to accounts of people who've had
Speaker 2: these experiences and not be moved. Bro, I'm telling you,
Speaker 2: it's one thing to read it, and I don't have
Speaker 2: any you know, videos of people recounting it, you know,
Speaker 2: in their own words and their voice and everything. I
Speaker 2: really hope after today's episode people go into a rabbit
Speaker 2: hole on YouTube, on TikTok whatever and just listen to
Speaker 2: people talk about their experience, and I promise you it
Speaker 2: will shake the foundation of whatever you are. Like it is.
Speaker 2: It's profound. And you know that they're not bullshitting because
Speaker 2: you can see the tears in the eyes, you can
Speaker 2: see the body just tensing up whenever they're going through detail.
Speaker 2: And I mean just the tone and their voice about
Speaker 2: you know, in compare it to you know, what was
Speaker 2: their tone and their voice before they had the NDE.
Speaker 2: And it's crazy, dude. It's a night and day change. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so it says should we believe them all? Of course,
Speaker 2: we needn't believe anything that we find unbelievable. A better
Speaker 2: question might be, at what point could an agenda get
Speaker 2: in the way of our understanding? If our grounds for
Speaker 2: disbelief amount to nothing more than science. Means that the
Speaker 2: mind is merely what the brain does. Then we should
Speaker 2: check out the history of efforts to defend current science
Speaker 2: in the face of challenging new information, beginning with Thomas
Speaker 2: Kuhne's Structure of Scientific Revolutions, which was written in nineteen
Speaker 2: sixty two. Jarrett that Christian Jarrett that we were talking
Speaker 2: about earlier. I think he was a psychologist. What was
Speaker 2: he cognitive neuroscience or neurosciences. He offers the suggestion that
Speaker 2: the ND is simply the behavior of a dying brain,
Speaker 2: he goes. In fact, some neuroscientists argue that many of
Speaker 2: these powerful subjective experiences can be attributed to intense neurobiological
Speaker 2: changes occurring as the brain approaches death, and they have
Speaker 2: the research to support this claim. In twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: researchers at the University of Michigan published groundbreaking findings from
Speaker 2: their analysis of brain recordings from four dying patients. The
Speaker 2: patients were on life support and their brain activity was
Speaker 2: recorded by electro Ncephalogram EEG, which tracks electrical activity in
Speaker 2: the brain via electrodes placed on the scalp. Led by
Speaker 2: doctor Gimo Borjin, the team made the remarkable observation that
Speaker 2: two of the patients exhibited a surge of brain activity
Speaker 2: shortly after their relatives had agreed to the removal of
Speaker 2: life support. So a surge in brain activity once they
Speaker 2: took them off life support.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Previously, this kind of end of life surge in brain
Speaker 2: activity had only been witnessed in studies with rats, but
Speaker 2: here was the first evidence that it might occur in
Speaker 2: humans too. This was a quote from the Reassuring Science.
Speaker 2: So it says, so does that final surge of brain
Speaker 2: activation explain everything we need to know about NDEs? It says,
Speaker 2: hold the AHAs for a moment. As Jarrett reports, the surge,
Speaker 2: the researchers noted was consistent with patterns and regions associated
Speaker 2: with consciousness. For example, the prefrontal cortex, which is thought
Speaker 2: to be involved in consciousness, showed heightened connectivity. But the
Speaker 2: Big Consciousness study comparison that wrapped up recently did not
Speaker 2: find that the prefrontal cortex plays as much of a
Speaker 2: role as is usually assumed. A bigger problem is that,
Speaker 2: as doctor Charlotte Marshall noted, none of these patients in
Speaker 2: the study survived, so we don't know if they had NDEs.
Speaker 2: Just what the surge signifies is still still to be determined.
Speaker 2: Good point, Okay, And that's the that's the problem with
Speaker 2: these things is that you're You're never gonna be sitting
Speaker 2: around waiting for somebody to have an NDE. You know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, Like, Yeah, nobody knows the time or
Speaker 2: the hour, as they say right in the Bible or
Speaker 2: some shit like that. It's like, you don't know the
Speaker 2: minute that you're going to die. Nobody.
Speaker 3: I don't want to, good God, that would be terrifying. Bro.
Speaker 2: I've had like psychics on the show and they're like,
Speaker 2: you want to know when you're gonna die. I'm like,
Speaker 2: fuck you, No, I don't want to know that. I'm good.
Speaker 2: I don't want to know the year. I don't want
Speaker 2: to know the decade.
Speaker 3: No. I I want no part in understanding any of that.
Speaker 3: Thank you. I would like to live every single day
Speaker 3: it is my last on earth, give it one hundred
Speaker 3: percent of everything I got. And at the end of
Speaker 3: the day, if I lay down at night and I
Speaker 3: can think, you know what, I truly know I gave
Speaker 3: one hundred and ten percent of myself to today, then
Speaker 3: fucking Gucci right that that's where I'm at I am
Speaker 3: good God, I'm not trying to find any of that
Speaker 3: shit out.
Speaker 2: Hell no, I don't need that in my life. Got
Speaker 2: enough stresses as it is.
Speaker 3: Bro Now today, Satan, not to today.
Speaker 2: Back the fuck up, Satan. All right, nobody asked you, so,
Speaker 2: it says, then, of course there's a question of this
Speaker 2: is interesting what they call vertical near death experiences. But
Speaker 2: it's ve or verit vertical v e r I verritical
Speaker 2: vertical Is that what you'd say that, huh vertical? It's
Speaker 2: v e r I d I c A L My
Speaker 2: first time ever seeing that word. Anyway, the question of
Speaker 2: verritical near death experiences, which is, experiencers may see things
Speaker 2: that they should not be able to, things that can
Speaker 2: be corroborated later. For example, sample Michael Egnoor and I
Speaker 2: note in our just published book The Immortal Mind, how
Speaker 2: psychiatrist Bruce Grayson first became interested in the study of ndees.
Speaker 2: This is fucking fascinating. Okay, this Whenever I hear shit
Speaker 2: like this, it's like, Okay, it's there's no way, It's
Speaker 2: just what the brain does. There's no way. Bruce Grayson,
Speaker 2: author of the book called After, was an agnostic psychiatrist
Speaker 2: decades ago skeptical that the mind could be detached from
Speaker 2: the brain, but then a young woman rescued from suicide
Speaker 2: told him that she had seen a spaghetti stain on
Speaker 2: his tie during an out of body experience. There was
Speaker 2: indeed such a stain, and he had gone to some
Speaker 2: trouble to conceal it from colleagues. Brains are just don't
Speaker 2: account for people knowing information that they should not have
Speaker 2: access to under normal or under natural circumstances. It's early
Speaker 2: days yet in the study of near death experiences, but
Speaker 2: we are seeing growth and genuine curiosity, which is a
Speaker 2: welcome change and likely to be a fruitful one. So
Speaker 2: that that example, this girl was trying to kill herself, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: she was laying there on the table, Bruce Grayson, I
Speaker 2: guess was there to try and you know, bring her
Speaker 2: back to life or to keep her from dying. She
Speaker 2: ended up flat lining for a little bit. I don't
Speaker 2: know if we have that story pulled up, but I
Speaker 2: read it she ended up flat lining for a little bit.
Speaker 2: She had this whole out of body experience to where
Speaker 2: she's not in her body anymore. She's like fucking floating
Speaker 2: at the top of the ceiling, right by the by
Speaker 2: by the lights and shit, and she's able to see him,
Speaker 2: see the procedures that he's doing, and she's able to
Speaker 2: notice that he had a stain on his shirt something
Speaker 2: that he was trying to cover up this whole time,
Speaker 2: right like on the lab coat or something, and she
Speaker 2: shouldn't have had access to be able to see that.
Speaker 3: That's interesting.
Speaker 2: There's no way she could have known that.
Speaker 3: And we've talked about that before, right, people that have
Speaker 3: had in these but they like agreed to be a
Speaker 3: part of this study if they did come back kind
Speaker 3: of thing, there was like a shell with different cards
Speaker 3: on it or something that they wouldn't have known the
Speaker 3: order of the cards unless they had some sort of
Speaker 3: an edy NDE and they were able to come back
Speaker 3: and talk about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's I don't. I don't. It's unexplainable, seemingly. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I did want to. I do have a couple
Speaker 2: of stories that we're gonna read today. I'm gonna spread
Speaker 2: them out, so I'm not reading back to back to
Speaker 2: back stories. We're gonna be thilling them in. But this
Speaker 2: seems to be the craziest nd ever documented. And oh, shit, yes,
Speaker 2: all right, this is that the story that we were
Speaker 2: just talking about with the spaghetti stain. That's this story.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's go they I had.
Speaker 2: This one pulled up. So this is Pam Reynolds. I
Speaker 2: think she was like a fucking actor or something. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's right.
Speaker 3: She was an American singer songwriter from Atlanta, Georgia. Pam Reynolds.
Speaker 3: I don't know what.
Speaker 2: Let's see what she was in. So Pam Reynolds music.
Speaker 2: Pam Reynolds did, she was a singer songwriter. Doesn't say what.
Speaker 3: I mean to say that you're a singer songwriter, Like,
Speaker 3: I know, that sounds impressive, big dog. I met a
Speaker 3: guy at the airport one time. He was a bartender
Speaker 3: at the airport and we were just, you know, started
Speaker 3: bullshitting about music or whatever, and he wouldn't stop talking
Speaker 3: about how impressed he was by Miley Cyrus. And this
Speaker 3: is back when she was doing Wrecking Ball, right, it
Speaker 3: was around that timeframe. He's like, well, listen, I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm a singer songwriter myself, so I would know and
Speaker 3: this and this and this. I'm like, oh, you're a
Speaker 3: bartender at the airport, so like word word Okay.
Speaker 2: Somebody's saying that they're like a podcaster. It's like that's
Speaker 2: a wide ranging thing that you could be doing right there.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm saying the levels of success are kind
Speaker 3: of broad here, my guy, right right.
Speaker 2: So anyhow, this is the woman Pam Reynolds. It says
Speaker 2: Pam Reynolds. She uh. She died in twenty ten, but
Speaker 2: she was an American singer songwriter from Atlanta, Georgia, whose
Speaker 2: near death experience is one of the most frequently cited
Speaker 2: in the literature. The experience seemingly occurred during a complete
Speaker 2: shutdown of her brain and body functions that had been
Speaker 2: instigated purposely to allow delicate surgery on a brain aneurysm.
Speaker 2: It included accurate views of the operating room and equipment,
Speaker 2: hyper awareness, visions of light, and interactions with deceased relatives.
Speaker 2: Her case is regarded by many as convincing evidence of survival,
Speaker 2: since her vital signs were monitored continuously, providing a certainty
Speaker 2: that she was clinically dead at the time. Okay, so
Speaker 2: she got.
Speaker 3: Put into a medically induced coma so that they could
Speaker 3: do surgery on her, and something either a went wrong
Speaker 3: during surgery or maybe the anesthesiologist kind of pumped her
Speaker 3: full of drugs a little too much, and she was
Speaker 3: pronounced dead and then came back, Yes, sir.
Speaker 2: So there's the investigation in publication, it says. In nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety four, Michael Sabaam, a cardiologist in Atlanta, launched a
Speaker 2: study on the relationship between NDEs and spiritual beliefs. He
Speaker 2: interviewed one hundred and sixty people, mostly patients of his clinic,
Speaker 2: finding that forty seven of them spoke of having such
Speaker 2: an experience. According to criteria identified by NDE researcher Bruce Grayson,
Speaker 2: Pam Reynolds was Her case was one of several summarized
Speaker 2: by Sabam in his book called Light and Death. Reynolds
Speaker 2: has described her case in a BBC documentary. Sabam first
Speaker 2: interviewed Reynolds in November of nineteen ninety four. So this
Speaker 2: is an older story, right, yeah. Hearing that she knew
Speaker 2: details of the operating room that she could have only
Speaker 2: seen while deeply unconscious, he contacted the medical staff and
Speaker 2: took other steps to try to verify them. So let's
Speaker 2: get to the actual experience here. In nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 2: she was thirty five Reynolds experienced symptoms of dizziness, loss
Speaker 2: of speech, and difficulty moving her body. A CT scan
Speaker 2: revealed a giant aneurysm at the base of her brain.
Speaker 2: The neurologists to whom she was referred predicted little or
Speaker 2: no chance of survival because of its size and location.
Speaker 2: Regular neurosurgical techniques to excize it would not work. She
Speaker 2: was then referred to doctor Robert Speltzer in Phoenix, Arizona,
Speaker 2: who had pioneered a surgical procedure, hypothermic cardiac arrest, that
Speaker 2: would make the aneurism operable. This involved cooling the patient's
Speaker 2: body to sixty degrees fahrenheit, stopping the heartbeat and breathing,
Speaker 2: and draining all blood from the brain. More than twenty doctors, nurses,
Speaker 2: and technicians took part. The operation required reynolds vital signs
Speaker 2: and body temperature to be very closely monitored by multiple
Speaker 2: instruments placed in various locations on and within her body.
Speaker 2: Molded speakers were placed in her ears, producing clicks at
Speaker 2: regular intervals so that other instruments could detect her brain's
Speaker 2: reactions to them. Reynolds was awake when she was brought
Speaker 2: into the operating root At the operating room at seven
Speaker 2: fifteen am, she felt a end quote's loss of time
Speaker 2: and blanked out as the general anesthesia took effect. Then
Speaker 2: she became aware of a musical tone that seemed to pull,
Speaker 2: a musical tone that seemed to pull her out of
Speaker 2: the top of her head. She goes, this is her quote.
Speaker 2: I think, the further out of my body I got,
Speaker 2: the more clear the tone became. I had the impression
Speaker 2: it was like a road, a frequency that you go on.
Speaker 2: I remember seeing several things in the operating In the
Speaker 2: operating room when I was looking down, it was the
Speaker 2: most aware that I think I have ever been in
Speaker 2: my entire life. It was brighter and more focused and
Speaker 2: clearer than normal vision. There was so much in the
Speaker 2: operating room that I didn't recognize, and in so many people.
Speaker 2: She recalled being surprised that the team had only partially
Speaker 2: shaved her head. She also recalled seeing the bone sauce
Speaker 2: that the bone saw that spelt he used to xcise
Speaker 2: a section of her skull. She goes, the saw thing
Speaker 2: looked like an electric toothbrush, and it had a dent
Speaker 2: in it. The groove of the top where the saw
Speaker 2: appeared to go into the handle, but it didn't. And
Speaker 2: the saw had interchangeable blades too, but these blades were
Speaker 2: in what looked like a socket wrench case. I heard
Speaker 2: the saw crank up, so it says that she found
Speaker 2: this sound unpleasant. Obviously, they're about to fucking cut her
Speaker 2: skull open. Sure, and someone said something about my veins
Speaker 2: and arteries being very small, Reynolds recalled, adding that it
Speaker 2: was a female voice. At this stage in the operation,
Speaker 2: a female cardiac surgeon, having determined that the arteries in
Speaker 2: Reynolds's right leg were too small to handle the degree
Speaker 2: of blood flow required the heart lung machine required by
Speaker 2: the heart lung machine, opened the left leg as well.
Speaker 2: Speltzer assessed that the aneurism, assessed the aneurysm, and ordered
Speaker 2: hypothermic cardiac arrests to be performed, Commencing at ten fifteen am,
Speaker 2: blood was removed via tubes from the femoral arteries and veins,
Speaker 2: chilled in reservoir cylinders, and returned to her body. As
Speaker 2: Reynolds's core temperature fell, her heart beat changed to change
Speaker 2: to fibrillation, then stopped entirely. Her brain waves flattened, then
Speaker 2: as her core temperature reached sixty, the brain stem shut down.
Speaker 2: By standard definitions, she was clinically dead at at eleven
Speaker 2: twenty five, the heart lung machine was turned off, the
Speaker 2: operating table was tilted, and blood was drained from her body.
Speaker 2: The sack of the aneurysm, was now empty, was easily excised,
Speaker 2: so the heart lung machine was then reactivated and warmed
Speaker 2: blood reinfused into reynolds circulatory system. The brain stem slowly
Speaker 2: began showing activity again, then her higher brain also. As
Speaker 2: the warming process continued. At noon, it became apparent that
Speaker 2: her heart would not resume beating by warming alone, so
Speaker 2: electrical jolts from a defibrillator were used to shock it
Speaker 2: into starting. Having been clinically dead for about an hour,
Speaker 2: Reynolds was returned to the recovery room in a stable
Speaker 2: condition at two ten pm for a fucking hour.
Speaker 3: Bro. Yeah, I want to sound like that guy.
Speaker 2: Here, be that guy. That's okay.
Speaker 3: This was done on purpose because they couldn't get the
Speaker 3: surgery to be completed while she was still alive. Yes,
Speaker 3: it was purpose, yeah, right, right, So she wasn't just
Speaker 3: medically in a coma. She was medically her life was
Speaker 3: ended by definition for an hour. But even still, it's
Speaker 3: not like they pulled the plug, decided we can't save
Speaker 3: this patient walked out of the room, and all of
Speaker 3: a sudden she woke up like this was all for
Speaker 3: a purpose, right?
Speaker 2: Her body didn't know that.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, you know so.
Speaker 2: I mean, so according to her, her body thought that
Speaker 2: she was dead. Her heart wasn't beating, her lungs weren't pumping.
Speaker 2: I mean, by all accounts, she was dead. And if
Speaker 2: they hadn't finished the operation and they would have just
Speaker 2: left her, she would have been dead. Right, that's fair? Yeah,
Speaker 2: So where was I? So? As cited by Sabam, which
Speaker 2: I think was the doctor. Reynolds's next recollections fall between
Speaker 2: the mention of her arteries being too small and the
Speaker 2: time that Speltzer's younger assistants were closing her incisions. This
Speaker 2: is her recount of it. There was a sensation like
Speaker 2: being pulled, but not against your will. I was going
Speaker 2: on my own accord because I wanted to go. I
Speaker 2: have different metaphors to try and explain this. It was
Speaker 2: like the Wizard of Oz being taken up in a
Speaker 2: tornado vortex, only you're not spinning around like you got vertigo.
Speaker 2: You're very focused and you have a place to go.
Speaker 2: The feeling was like going up in an elevator really fast,
Speaker 2: and there was a sensation, but it wasn't a bodily
Speaker 2: physical sensation. It was like a tunnel, but it wasn't
Speaker 2: a tunnel. At some point, very early in the tunnel vortex,
Speaker 2: I became aware of my grandmother calling me, but I
Speaker 2: didn't hear her call me with my ears. It was
Speaker 2: a clearer hearing than with my ears. I trust that
Speaker 2: sense more than I trust my own ears. The feeling
Speaker 2: that was that she wanted me to come to her,
Speaker 2: so I continued with no fear down the shaft. It's
Speaker 2: a dark shaft that I went through, and at the
Speaker 2: very end there was this very little, tiny pinpoint of
Speaker 2: light that kept on getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
Speaker 2: The light was incredibly, incredibly bright, like sitting in the middle,
Speaker 2: like sitting in the middle of a light bulb. It
Speaker 2: was so bright that I put my hands in front
Speaker 2: of my face, fully expecting to see them, and I
Speaker 2: could not, but I knew that they were there, not
Speaker 2: from a sense of touch. Again, it's terribly hard to explain,
Speaker 2: but I knew that they were there. I noticed that
Speaker 2: as I began to discern different figures in the light,
Speaker 2: and they were all covered with light. They were light
Speaker 2: and had light permeating all around them that began to
Speaker 2: form shapes I could recognize and understand. I could see
Speaker 2: that one of them was my grandmother. I didn't know
Speaker 2: if it was reality or projection, but I would know
Speaker 2: my grandmother the sound of her anytime anywhere. Everyone I saw,
Speaker 2: looking back on it fit perfectly into my understanding of
Speaker 2: what that person looked like at their best during their lives.
Speaker 2: I recognized a lot of people. My uncle Jean was there,
Speaker 2: so was my great great aunt Maggie, who was really
Speaker 2: a cousin on Papa's side of the family. My grandfather
Speaker 2: was there. They were specifically taking care of me and
Speaker 2: looking after me. They would not permit me to go
Speaker 2: any further. It was communicated to me, that's the best
Speaker 2: way I know how to say it, because they didn't
Speaker 2: speak like I'm speaking, that if I went all the
Speaker 2: way into the light, something would happen to me physically.
Speaker 2: They would be unable to put me. They would be
Speaker 2: they would be unable to put this. This me back
Speaker 2: into the body, into the body me. Okay, So the
Speaker 2: me that she's referring to is like her soul, her
Speaker 2: consciousness whatever. Right, if she went all the way into
Speaker 2: the light, there was no fixing it. So they were
Speaker 2: trying to prevent her from going all the way, like
Speaker 2: I had gone too far and they couldn't reconnect, so
Speaker 2: they wouldn't let me go anywhere or do anything. Then
Speaker 2: they were feeding me.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: They were not doing this through my mouth like with food,
Speaker 2: but they were nourishing me with something. The only way
Speaker 2: I know how to put this is something spark sparkles
Speaker 2: is the image that I get. I definitely recall the
Speaker 2: sensation of being nurtured and being fed and being made strong.
Speaker 2: I know this sounds funny because obviously it wasn't a
Speaker 2: physical thing, but inside the experience I felt physically strong,
Speaker 2: ready for whatever. My grandmother didn't take me back through
Speaker 2: the tunnel or even send me back or asked me
Speaker 2: to go. She just looked up at me. I expected
Speaker 2: to go with her, but it was communicated to me
Speaker 2: that she just didn't think that she would. It was
Speaker 2: communicated to me that she just didn't think that she
Speaker 2: would do that okay. My uncle said that he would
Speaker 2: do it. He's the one who took me back through
Speaker 2: the end of the tunnel and everything was fine. I
Speaker 2: did want to go, but then I got to the
Speaker 2: end of it and saw the thing my body. I
Speaker 2: didn't want to get back into it. It looked terrible,
Speaker 2: like a train wreck. It looked like it was dead.
Speaker 2: I believe it was covered. It scared me, and I
Speaker 2: didn't want to look at it. It was communicated to
Speaker 2: me that it was like jumping into a swimming pool.
Speaker 2: No problem, just jump right into the swimming pool. I
Speaker 2: didn't want to, but I guess I was late or
Speaker 2: something because he, my uncle, pushed me. I thought a
Speaker 2: definitive or a definite repelling and at the same time
Speaker 2: a polling from the body. The body was pulling and
Speaker 2: the tunnel was pushing. It was like diving into a
Speaker 2: pool of ice water. It hurt. The assistance finished the
Speaker 2: operation to the sound of rock music, and Reynolds recalled it, said,
Speaker 2: she goes. They were playing Hotel California and the line
Speaker 2: was you can check out any time you like, but
Speaker 2: you can never leave.
Speaker 3: I had a feeling that was gonna be the line.
Speaker 2: Interesting. That's funny. I mentioned later to doctor Brown that
Speaker 2: that was incredibly insensitive, and he told me that I
Speaker 2: needed to sleep more. When I regained consciousness, I was
Speaker 2: still on the respirator. Either, that is coincidental. It has
Speaker 2: to be coincidental, right, I don't.
Speaker 3: Thieve coincidences though.
Speaker 2: No, I'm saying that. I can't believe. I wouldn't believe that,
Speaker 2: like the doctors would be purposely playing that at that moment,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, I've heard of doctors that played music during surgery,
Speaker 3: and typically it's like, you know, non non lyrical music
Speaker 3: or classical or something like that, because they like it's
Speaker 3: it's the same as like working a job. You know,
Speaker 3: some people work better with a little music in the
Speaker 3: background or whatever. Hotel California, maybe he just had like
Speaker 3: an old rock mix or something that's what he works
Speaker 3: best to or whatever. But like, again, yeah, that's uh,
Speaker 3: that's kind of crazy that that was the line.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty, I mean, you know, whatever you want to
Speaker 2: make of that.
Speaker 3: It says.
Speaker 2: As measured by the Grayson NDE scale, Reynolds NDE was
Speaker 2: particularly deep. The maximum score possible is thirty is thirty two.
Speaker 2: The average score among Grayson's subjects at the time of
Speaker 2: Sabam's writing was fifteen. That was the average score is fifteen,
Speaker 2: and the average among the subjects in Sabam's study was
Speaker 2: thirteen point three. Reynolds scored a twenty seven. So that's
Speaker 2: according to the nd East scale. Maybe we'll look that
Speaker 2: up here a little bit. Okay, After her experience, Reynolds
Speaker 2: law all fear of death. She said, as quoted in
Speaker 2: a MSNBC broadcast. This is her quote. If death is
Speaker 2: the worst thing that happens to us, what an incredible thing.
Speaker 2: If at the end of our lives, this is what's
Speaker 2: going to happen to everyone. I don't see a problem.
Speaker 2: I really don't get it. I fear pained, but I
Speaker 2: don't fear death. So pam Ronold's fully recovered from the
Speaker 2: operation and lived a healthy life until twenty ten, when
Speaker 2: she died at the age of fifty three of heart failure.
Speaker 2: Still young.
Speaker 3: God damn dude, going through some shit, bro, I guess. So,
Speaker 3: I don't know what caused the heart failure, but like, damn,
Speaker 3: fifty three is not old. Granted, I don't plan on
Speaker 3: living past fifty, but like to hear that you already
Speaker 3: have one nbe and then to die of fifty three.
Speaker 2: When did the surgery take place sixteen years prior to
Speaker 2: her death? Okay, so she still lived a while after that?
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, So it says there are verifications. It
Speaker 2: says having examined the operative report and interviewing interviewed Speltzer,
Speaker 2: which was the doctor, Subam determined, Oh, Subam is the interviewer.
Speaker 2: Speltzer was the doctor. Okay. So Sabam determined that Reynolds's
Speaker 2: experience could not have been the result of a temporal
Speaker 2: lobe seizure, as no such seizure had been recorded. The
Speaker 2: report referred to a female doctor referring to the small
Speaker 2: blood vessels, apparently confirming Reynolds's memory of having heard the comment. Significantly,
Speaker 2: Reynolds could not have heard the comment normally, as by
Speaker 2: this time her ears had been stopped up by the
Speaker 2: molded speakers that were generating loud clicks. Sabam also learned
Speaker 2: that the comment was made at about the same time
Speaker 2: that the saw started up. Holy shit. So Sabam was
Speaker 2: unfamiliar with the bone saw used in the operation, it
Speaker 2: was not in a position to confirm Reynolds's description of it,
Speaker 2: resembling an electric tutebush and its case resembling a socket
Speaker 2: wrench case. He contacted the manufacturer, who sent pictures of
Speaker 2: him of both. The resemblance was clear, so she described
Speaker 2: it perfectly. I guess yeah, it says. There was media coverage,
Speaker 2: so Reynolds's NDE eventually became the subject of multiple television
Speaker 2: news segments and newspaper articles. On the radio show Coast
Speaker 2: to Coast AM, which focuses on unexplained phenomena, show host
Speaker 2: Art mel rip to a Real One conducted an in
Speaker 2: depth ninety minute interview with her in two thousand and two.
Speaker 2: A two thousand and nine segment from National Public Radio
Speaker 2: includes a short clip from a rock song Reynolds wrote
Speaker 2: based on her experience. A few days before her death,
Speaker 2: Reynolds gave more details of the experience in an interview
Speaker 2: transcribed by Oh what is that word? Anesthesis? There we
Speaker 2: go and an NDE skeptic GM Worley. So there were criticisms,
Speaker 2: all right, Well, let's hear the criticisms. I mean, hey,
Speaker 2: we're just trying to search the search for the truth,
Speaker 2: it says. In two thousand and seven, the Journal of
Speaker 2: Near Studies published three papers by philosopher Keith Augustine questioning
Speaker 2: the validity of ndees with claimed verdict veritical memories and
Speaker 2: dismissing them as fantastical. The issue included responses by NDE
Speaker 2: scholars such as Sabam, Grayson, Kenneth Ring, and Raymond Moody.
Speaker 2: That's a name everybody should look up if you're interested
Speaker 2: in ndaes is Raymond Moody.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: The debate continued in the following year and restarted in
Speaker 2: twenty eleven with a critical paper in the same journal
Speaker 2: by Warley. He contends that Reynolds retained sufficient conscious awareness,
Speaker 2: even under anesthesia, to hear the sound of the saw,
Speaker 2: the cardiac surgeon's comments about blood vessel size, and the
Speaker 2: song Hotel, California. Alternatively, he speculates the sound of the
Speaker 2: saw could have reverberated through her skull and she might
Speaker 2: have guessed the blood vessel comments as she was aware
Speaker 2: that she had small blood vessels. Countering this, according to Sabam,
Speaker 2: the technologists who inserted the speakers pointed uh pointed out
Speaker 2: that the tape and gauze used to keep them in
Speaker 2: place covered the entire ear in ear entrance, making normal
Speaker 2: hearing of an operation room conversation impossible, So Augustine argues
Speaker 2: that Reynolds's visual recall of the bon saw is confused
Speaker 2: on one point and therefore likely incorrect. He suggests that
Speaker 2: she may have guessed what it looked like from the
Speaker 2: experience with Detchil drills. He posits that her out of
Speaker 2: body experience began and ended before the period of cardiac
Speaker 2: arrest commenced, and therefore she could have she still could
Speaker 2: have been slightly conscious and able to physically perceive aspects
Speaker 2: of the operating room. He argues that her memories might
Speaker 2: have become contaminated with with such knowledge of such details
Speaker 2: gained during the three years that it lasts between the experience.
Speaker 2: In her first interview with Sabam, so Sabam counters that
Speaker 2: while Augustine is correct with regard to the to the
Speaker 2: moment when the out of body experience commenced, that when
Speaker 2: the saw started up, Reynolds herself identified its conclusion as
Speaker 2: the operation being brought to a close by the assistance
Speaker 2: during the playing of Hotel California, confirming that it was
Speaker 2: underway during the time of cardiac arrests. With regard to
Speaker 2: the point about her allegedly confused memory of the saw.
Speaker 2: Parapsychologist Charles Tart counters that a minor error in recall
Speaker 2: of an unfamiliar instrument is not submit is not sufficient
Speaker 2: to dismiss her memory of having seen it as having
Speaker 2: never occurred. With respect to the three three year delay,
Speaker 2: Tart points to statistical evidence that memories of NDEs tend
Speaker 2: to remain consistent over time. The account Reynolds gave in
Speaker 2: her final interview suggests that the first verifications of her
Speaker 2: outer body memories were actually provided by the medical staff
Speaker 2: very soon afterward. This is where it's more fascinating, whenever
Speaker 2: you can get verifiable shit from the people that were
Speaker 2: actually there, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But they're saying that her story has changed over time.
Speaker 2: Well, they're saying that her memory may have changed over time,
Speaker 2: but her recounts of what actually happened whenever not in
Speaker 2: the operating room. You know, you're not going to forget that.
Speaker 2: I think that was the point. But it says the
Speaker 2: account Reynolds gave and her final interview suggests that the
Speaker 2: first verifications of her out of body memories were actually
Speaker 2: provided by the medical staff very soon afterward. I thought
Speaker 2: I had hallucinations, and when I talked with my family
Speaker 2: and husband, we were joking that made everyone laugh. With
Speaker 2: the exception of the nurse, the doctor, the anesthesiologist, and
Speaker 2: the neurophysiologists. Neurophysiologists, they did not seem to find it funny,
Speaker 2: and they hardly dared to look at me. In fact,
Speaker 2: they knew that I was not hallucinating and that this
Speaker 2: had occurred. They had never heard of such such things before.
Speaker 2: I thought maybe it was my imagination and I had
Speaker 2: a dream. But they told me that this was not
Speaker 2: the case, and what I saw really happened. They kept
Speaker 2: telling me that I was that it was not a hallucination.
Speaker 2: So Speltzer confirms this, as quoted on MSNBC, saying that
Speaker 2: what she related so quickly after surgery was remarkably precise
Speaker 2: as to some details that went on in the surgery.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: I mean, the people in there are saying, like, yo,
Speaker 2: she said it moments after it just because you you know,
Speaker 2: it wasn't documented into it three years after the people
Speaker 2: in that room know the story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, pretty cool.
Speaker 2: So that's Pam Reynolds. I thought that was gonna be
Speaker 2: the Spaghetti State one. I thought that I might have
Speaker 2: fucked that one up. There's a lot of these stories
Speaker 2: that I've read, bro, It's hard to keep them all
Speaker 2: in order.
Speaker 3: I get it, especially as you go on to these
Speaker 3: things on Meta Mystery. I get that, like they start
Speaker 3: to blend.
Speaker 2: They do, they do, but they're all still like they're
Speaker 2: all awesome. So this is an article from Forbes dot
Speaker 2: com and it says this was actually just written August
Speaker 2: second of this year, so a couple of days ago,
Speaker 2: well like two weeks ago. It says what near death
Speaker 2: experiences teach us about work, new studies say, It says,
Speaker 2: so this is gonna be an interesting angle. It says
Speaker 2: near death experiences at work are uncommon in many professions,
Speaker 2: but with close calls and aviation gaining more attention in
Speaker 2: recent months, certain industries are grappling with these with the
Speaker 2: impacts that these experiences have in the workplace, in ways
Speaker 2: such events influence how survivors move forward in their careers.
Speaker 2: Recent studies reveal that employees near death experiences dramatically change
Speaker 2: their thoughts about work, what matters most in their careers,
Speaker 2: and their relationships with their coworkers. So what are near
Speaker 2: death experiences and near death experiences is an event when
Speaker 2: someone has a close brush with death and temporarily begins
Speaker 2: the process of dying. After recovery, survivors typically recount an
Speaker 2: out of body experience or a vision of a tunnel
Speaker 2: of light. NDEs occur among seventeen percent of people who
Speaker 2: nearly die, and about forty five percent of people who
Speaker 2: report near death experiences describe accompanying accompanying out of body experiences.
Speaker 2: A whopping five to ten percent of the general population
Speaker 2: have memories of an NDE, including somewhere between ten and
Speaker 2: twenty three percent of cardiac arrest survivors. Many people who
Speaker 2: have had near death experiences describe a sense of awe
Speaker 2: or bliss, and a reluctance to come back into their
Speaker 2: bodies being after being revived.
Speaker 3: That's kind of crazy. Earlier we heard it was like
Speaker 3: nine percent of cardiac arrest survivors. Now we're hearing it's
Speaker 3: more like a twenty five percent of cardiac rest survivors.
Speaker 3: I wonder if the data has gotten more updated since then.
Speaker 2: I think so, Yeah, I think so. I don't know
Speaker 2: when that original article was written, but this is super recent.
Speaker 2: I mean it's two weeks ago. So it says they
Speaker 2: recall seeing and often hearing ongoing earthly events from a
Speaker 2: perspective that is apart and usually above their physical bodies.
Speaker 2: Following cardiac arrests, they may see and later accurately describe
Speaker 2: their own resuscitation. In the last hours before an unexpected
Speaker 2: natural death, many people enter a period of unresponsiveness, during
Speaker 2: which they no longer respond to their external environment. Anecdotal
Speaker 2: reports from near death XS experiences commonly include stories of
Speaker 2: the dying person hearing unusual noises or hearing themselves pronounced dead.
Speaker 2: Bro imagine that he's dead, he's cooked done, and you
Speaker 2: hear that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just it's crazy. I literally just heard a
Speaker 3: story of a guy who was with the MACV SONG,
Speaker 3: which is a Vietnam basically like super special operations group.
Speaker 3: They were listening on the radio one night and the
Speaker 3: enemy had gotten one of the radios and it was
Speaker 3: like super ENCRYPTI. They they weren't supposed to be able
Speaker 3: to get in on this, and this woman on the
Speaker 3: line basically read off the obituaries of every single person
Speaker 3: that was in his team, which was scary because no
Speaker 3: one was supposed to know they were there. No one
Speaker 3: was supposed to know which dudes were in this team
Speaker 3: or any of this stuff. They had like somewhere around
Speaker 3: four to eight hundred guys coming at them at that moment,
Speaker 3: and they're trying to radio to like headquarters for an
Speaker 3: extraction all this stuff, and they hear this woman come
Speaker 3: on reading each individual name and their obituary of how
Speaker 3: they died, where they died, all this shit, and it's like,
Speaker 3: oh fuck. So like and they made it out there
Speaker 3: alive doing wrong, but like hearing that that that would
Speaker 3: just fry.
Speaker 2: You, dude, that would definitely throw you through a loop.
Speaker 2: There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: So it says that there's scientific research on near death experience.
Speaker 2: As we were reading earlier, this is a more up
Speaker 2: to date article. So it says no one knows for
Speaker 2: sure what happens when we die, but recent information from
Speaker 2: researchers gives us a clue. In twenty twenty, I wrote
Speaker 2: a story for Forbes on brain scientists doctor Jill Bolt Taylor,
Speaker 2: who witnessed her own stroke, describing it as strikingly similar
Speaker 2: to the bliss of an NDE, which she details in
Speaker 2: her book called My Stroke of Insight. Taylor told me
Speaker 2: that there was zero fear in that she was bouncing
Speaker 2: in and out a blissful euphoria and awareness of external reality. Interesting,
Speaker 2: an awareness external reality that's fucking awesome. She remembers shifting
Speaker 2: into a consciousness that she's a part of a greater humanity,
Speaker 2: more open, expansive, and flexible to possibilities as opposed to
Speaker 2: self focused needs. Now, her quote is is that the
Speaker 2: authentic self is part of us that I firmly believe
Speaker 2: shows up in the last five minutes of our lives.
Speaker 2: When we're on our deathbreed, on our deathbed, the left
Speaker 2: brain begins to dissipate. We shift out of all the
Speaker 2: accumulation and the external world because it's no longer valuable.
Speaker 2: What is valuable is who we are as human beings
Speaker 2: and what we did with our lives to help others.
Speaker 3: That's her quote. So yeah, so, I mean I would
Speaker 3: probably think that same way. That's fair.
Speaker 2: Neuroscientists accept ndase as a unique mental state that offers
Speaker 2: insight into the death experience. A recent burst in research
Speaker 2: suggests that survivors of near death experiences feel increased empathy,
Speaker 2: spiritual growth, a sense of purpose, and even a change
Speaker 2: of how they approach their jobs. A groundbreaking study in
Speaker 2: Scientific Reports validates anecdotal records with the first empirical evidence
Speaker 2: that people still hear while in an unresponsive state hours
Speaker 2: before dying. The researchers found that the auditory systems of
Speaker 2: dying patients respond similarly to young, healthy participants just hours
Speaker 2: from the end of their life. They conclude that hearing
Speaker 2: is the last sense to go in a dying brain.
Speaker 2: A study in June of twenty twenty five, an issue
Speaker 2: of the Journal of Applied Psychology, explores stories from military
Speaker 2: aviators who had a close brush with death on the
Speaker 2: job and would help them process the traumatic experiences and
Speaker 2: rediscover meaning in their work. So I spoke with the
Speaker 2: studies co author Kevin Rockman, a professor of management at
Speaker 2: George Mason's University Costello College of Business. He told me
Speaker 2: that participants use storytelling about their loose brush with death
Speaker 2: as a means to reclaim a sense of purpose, identity,
Speaker 2: and belonging in their jobs. He adds that the story
Speaker 2: He adds that storytelling after a life threatening event also
Speaker 2: applies to corporate employees readjusting to life's readjusting to life
Speaker 2: after facing a traumatic or serious medical event like the
Speaker 2: recent Manhattan mass shooting at New York's NFL headquarters, major
Speaker 2: surgery or auto accident. The way the way stories are
Speaker 2: told with humor, exaggeration, or vulnerability shapes emotional healing in
Speaker 2: workplace esteem. Rockman says even deeply traumatic experiences can strengthen
Speaker 2: an employees' connection to their role, especially in high stakes
Speaker 2: jobs like aviation, healthcare, or emergency response. So they published
Speaker 2: in July of this year, explores how NDEs affect employees
Speaker 2: return to their jobs. The most common change is the
Speaker 2: desire to do more meaningful work. The study found that
Speaker 2: NDEs reshapes values, creating a deeper appreciation of life of life,
Speaker 2: less value on money, material possessions, and prestige, and more
Speaker 2: importance on meaning, purpose and loving others. Survivors often change
Speaker 2: the direction of their careers, focus on different work priorities,
Speaker 2: and switch jobs or start their own companies. The researchers
Speaker 2: also reported that NDEs transform how survivors interact with and
Speaker 2: relate to others at work, making them more than just
Speaker 2: business associates, creating deeper relationships connecting to them as human beings.
Speaker 2: The stories of near death survivors often offer a kind
Speaker 2: of blueprint for reimagining how we work. For employees, that
Speaker 2: might that might mean reevaluating what success looks like or
Speaker 2: exploring roles that align more closely with personal values. For employers,
Speaker 2: it might involve fostering workplace cultures that prioritize connection, purpose,
Speaker 2: and well being. So basically to say that whenever people
Speaker 2: go through these crazy experiences, their entire life perspective changes.
Speaker 2: They no longer give a fuck about material things. They
Speaker 2: don't care about doing jobs if it's not helping humanity
Speaker 2: in a certain kind of way. They want to feel
Speaker 2: like they are giving something back because they are now
Speaker 2: more grateful for the life that they get to live.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, even if you think that this
Speaker 2: is just a rush of you know, chemicals and it's
Speaker 2: not really anything special, Even if you think that, to
Speaker 2: the individual, that's not how they.
Speaker 3: View it, right. They see it as something profound and
Speaker 3: in some way life changing. I'm with you, right, And
Speaker 3: so it says when coworkers have near death experiences. According
Speaker 3: to Rockman, the natural tendency is to suppress near death
Speaker 3: stories so as to not disturb hearers and make the
Speaker 3: affected person relive the experience. But he believes that this
Speaker 3: overlooks the value to be gained by encouraging that person
Speaker 3: to share their story with others in the workplace. Unspoken
Speaker 3: workplace rules cause miscommunication and disconnection. If you're an employer,
Speaker 3: experts recommend that you ensure.
Speaker 2: Okay, who gets the fuck about that? All right? So
Speaker 2: basically to say that, like, it's important to allow the
Speaker 2: people to tell their stories, you know, leave your preconceived
Speaker 2: notions or whatever at the door. Basically, yeah, so it's
Speaker 2: pretty cool. So another one, this is the one I
Speaker 2: was talking about, this is I had this guy on
Speaker 2: my show and fuck, man, I mean so good this story.
Speaker 2: And like, I guess he was like a real piece
Speaker 2: of shit before, he was drinking a lot, he didn't
Speaker 2: really care about life. He ends up having this crazy
Speaker 2: experience and his life completely change upside down. So this
Speaker 2: article was actually written in twenty twenty so I had
Speaker 2: him on meadow way after that, I think in like
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. I think it was last year. I
Speaker 2: want to say, yeah, I think I was living in
Speaker 2: Texas already when we had that conversation. Okay, So David
Speaker 2: Ditchfield's remarkable near death experience. It says in two thousand
Speaker 2: and six, a man called David Ditchfield was seeing off
Speaker 2: a friend at a train station near Cambridge, England. He
Speaker 2: stepped onto the train to help his friend with her
Speaker 2: luggage and to hug her goodbye. But as he stepped
Speaker 2: back off, his long coat got stuck in the train's
Speaker 2: closing doors. Unable to take off the coat, he found
Speaker 2: himself trapped as the train set off. He was pulled
Speaker 2: along the platform as the car as the train gathered speed,
Speaker 2: being tossed around like a rag doll. Fucking got run over.
Speaker 3: Final destination. Shit right there, Fuck that, Fuck all that,
Speaker 3: he says.
Speaker 2: Then he was sucked up into the gap between the
Speaker 2: train and the platform and ended up on the train
Speaker 2: track with the train hurling above him. Despite the danger,
Speaker 2: David felt strangely calm. To maximize his chances of survival,
Speaker 2: He pushed himself as far down into the tracks that
Speaker 2: he could. The final carriage of the train passed over him,
Speaker 2: and he felt a surge of joy that that he
Speaker 2: had survived, although now he felt intense pain. He noticed
Speaker 2: that the left sleeve of his coat had been ripped
Speaker 2: to shreds and that his arm had been severed. Oh shit,
Speaker 2: his arm had been severed from the elbowed down, as
Speaker 2: he says, everything on it in a slow dreamlike way.
Speaker 2: It I felt an unearthly, absolute sense of calmness. David
Speaker 2: was rushed to the hospital by paramedics with his life
Speaker 2: hanging in the balance as he was losing so much blood.
Speaker 2: Shortly after arriving at the hospital, he lost normal consciousness
Speaker 2: and suddenly found himself in a completely different environment, immersed
Speaker 2: in a darkness that seemed warm and soft, with vivid
Speaker 2: colors and lights around him.
Speaker 3: There was no calmness. That calmness. She'll hear that from
Speaker 3: a lot of dudes that get like, you know, bombs
Speaker 3: go off by them and they become an amput. It's shock,
Speaker 3: like they only realize they're missing an arm or anything
Speaker 3: like that. They feel fine, then the look down and
Speaker 3: they see that it's missing, then the shock, whereas all
Speaker 3: then they feel the pain and all these things. So like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I get that.
Speaker 2: I mean I had I'm not gonna even put myself
Speaker 2: to that degree, but I had somewhat of a similar experience.
Speaker 2: It was like, uh, last year for Christmas, there was
Speaker 2: like a fucking shooting. I told everybody about it, but
Speaker 2: there was a shooting at the mall that I was at,
Speaker 2: and everybody was running and fucking crying and panicaning and everything.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm just walking, bro, Like I it's not
Speaker 2: that I don't care, It's just that I I had
Speaker 2: this strange, for no reason, sense of calmness that took
Speaker 2: over my body to where I just I just in
Speaker 2: my mind, I was like, dude, whatever's gonna happen is
Speaker 2: gonna happen. Whether I stress and fucking panic about it
Speaker 2: is not going to change my circumstance. I don't even
Speaker 2: know where that came from, right, because why would anybody
Speaker 2: think that way? I don't know. It was strange, I
Speaker 2: get it. So anyway, it says there was no pain anymore,
Speaker 2: and he felt very tranquil. This is now. This is
Speaker 2: how he described his experience in an interview with me.
Speaker 2: I could see pulsating colors like little orbs, much brighter
Speaker 2: and sharper than any colors I had seen in my
Speaker 2: normal life. Watching them was really relaxing. In therapeutic it
Speaker 2: was such a beautiful place, with a feeling that I
Speaker 2: was being cared for and supported. I thought that this
Speaker 2: is what it might be, what it must be like
Speaker 2: to die, and then wondered if it meant that I
Speaker 2: had just died. The sensation of love became stronger, and
Speaker 2: I looked down at my feet. I saw a huge
Speaker 2: tunnel of light drawing closer towards me. I felt, and
Speaker 2: I still believe this now, that the white light was
Speaker 2: the source of all creation. I never dreamt that I
Speaker 2: would ever see something so beautiful. It was the light
Speaker 2: of pure, unconditional love. Every molecule of my body was
Speaker 2: pulsating with love and light. It was the most incredible sensation.
Speaker 2: I felt more alive than I have than I ever
Speaker 2: done before. It felt like I was experiencing the true reality,
Speaker 2: while my old world was just an illusion. That's what
Speaker 2: so many people say.
Speaker 3: Like it somehow while the train was going over or
Speaker 3: after the fact of my hospital, this is in the
Speaker 3: near death experience, That's what I'm saying. Like at the hospital,
Speaker 3: not with the train.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. Yeah. At the hospital. At that point,
Speaker 2: I felt certain that I was dead, but I didn't
Speaker 2: feel any fear or regret. I laid my head back
Speaker 2: and I laughed because I felt so joyous. Then suddenly
Speaker 2: I was back in the hospital with an overdrive of
Speaker 2: noise and light and people and frantic voices. I was
Speaker 2: being rushed, I was being rushed into theater. Interesting, so
Speaker 2: attempted explanation of near death experiences. David's experience is a
Speaker 2: remarkable example of what is usually referred to as a
Speaker 2: near death experience. Near death experiences occur when a person's
Speaker 2: body and brain shut down for a short period of
Speaker 2: time before they are resuscitated, for example, after cardiac arrests.
Speaker 2: In many cases, people report that even though their brain
Speaker 2: showed no signs of activity, they continue to be conscious
Speaker 2: and underwent a remarkable series of experiences, usually along similar
Speaker 2: lines to David's. Such experiences are surprisingly common. For example,
Speaker 2: research suggests that around a third of cardiac arrest patients
Speaker 2: report them after resuscitation.
Speaker 3: So first we got nine percent, Now we got twenty
Speaker 3: five percent, Now we got a third.
Speaker 2: I think that it's not conclusive, and these might be
Speaker 2: individual people that are doing these tests.
Speaker 3: I think, okay, okay.
Speaker 2: It says nds are controversial because there is no viable
Speaker 2: neurological or physiological explanation for them. Many suggests have been made,
Speaker 2: for example, that they are caused by cerebral anoxia, which
Speaker 2: is a lacks of lack of oxygen to the brain,
Speaker 2: undetected brain activity, or the release of psychedelic chemicals like ketamine.
Speaker 2: Huh okay, crom.
Speaker 3: I've never heard the ketamine as some of your brain
Speaker 3: releases naturally. I know DMT is, but or is this
Speaker 3: them trying to compare ketamine to DMT?
Speaker 2: I think so? Yeah? Oh lord, it says from this
Speaker 2: point of view, NDEs are nothing more than brain created hallucinations,
Speaker 2: no more than real dreams. But there are problems with
Speaker 2: all of these explanations. Cerebral anoxia usually results in chaotic
Speaker 2: hallucinatory experiences and is associated with confusion and memory loss,
Speaker 2: but people report NDEs as unlike this. They are usually
Speaker 2: very serene, structured, and well integrated experiences. Research has shown
Speaker 2: no significant similarity between psychedelic experiences and NDEs, and there
Speaker 2: is no evidence that the brain has a hidden store
Speaker 2: of psychedelic chemicals that are released when we are close
Speaker 2: to death. I disagree, but let's.
Speaker 3: Move I mean a hidden store. That that's misleading, right.
Speaker 3: That's like saying, well, there's no evidence to say that
Speaker 3: your brain has a hidden store of chemicals that are
Speaker 3: released while you're sleeping. That we might call a dream. Like,
Speaker 3: it's not a hidden store. This is they're chemicals that
Speaker 3: are already in the brain. They're not like on reserve
Speaker 3: waiting to be deployed. They're just kind of there and
Speaker 3: they get deployed when your brain relaxes enough to deploy them.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's probably something that doesn't necessarily need I
Speaker 2: don't know if there is a store of it. It's
Speaker 2: almost like somebody saying, I don't know, Like like people
Speaker 2: like men, we keep on creating a semen. You know,
Speaker 2: it's not like you pump it all out and it's
Speaker 2: all gone, you know.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean with the semen thing, like your balls
Speaker 3: store the semen that is the reserves, right, And I
Speaker 3: can understand at a certain point, like even whenever you
Speaker 3: take loose and jesup but can't speak hallucinogenics, Like if
Speaker 3: you take a hero zose mushrooms, your brain feels like
Speaker 3: you're in a fog for the next two or three
Speaker 3: days until your chemicals level back out because you just
Speaker 3: used all of them. So like they're already in the brain,
Speaker 3: but it's not like they're stockpiled somewhere and they like
Speaker 3: they give you like a drip of it throughout the day.
Speaker 3: It's kind of one of those things where your body
Speaker 3: produces what is needed. But again it's not I feel
Speaker 3: like that just that was a misleading sentence.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, maybe it was, it says. It is
Speaker 2: also difficult to see how endase could be due to
Speaker 2: undetected brain activity. When after cardiac arrest, brain stem reflexes
Speaker 2: are lost straight away and do not return until the
Speaker 2: heart has been restored. How could a brain be functioning
Speaker 2: without showing any signs of activity. In any case, if
Speaker 2: there was some undetected brain activity, it would have to
Speaker 2: be incredibly low, and it seems unlikely that such a
Speaker 2: low level of brain activity could produce very intense, apparently
Speaker 2: conscious experiences. It's a good point, So then it gets
Speaker 2: into the long term effects of NDEs. One of the
Speaker 2: most striking things about near death experiences is their long
Speaker 2: term effect. Although they may only last for a few
Speaker 2: seconds of normal time, near death experiences usually have a
Speaker 2: powerful transformational effect. David Ditchfield's experience is an excellent example
Speaker 2: of this. His NDE changed him so dramatically that he
Speaker 2: feels as if he is that he has a different
Speaker 2: life and a different identity, almost as if he is
Speaker 2: a different person living in the same body, And even
Speaker 2: after fourteen years, these changes have not diminished. As David
Speaker 2: told me, here we go, I feel like I'm living
Speaker 2: in different dimensions rather than just one. I'm much more
Speaker 2: sensitive and can pick up on the energy of places
Speaker 2: in people. It has made my life so much more interesting.
Speaker 2: I have a lot more appreciation for nature in the
Speaker 2: world seems a beautiful place. I love watching animals and insects,
Speaker 2: watching the seasons change. Before the experience, I was so
Speaker 2: immersed in myself that all of those things just didn't
Speaker 2: exist for me. They were just there. It's changed my
Speaker 2: relationship too. I'm a lot more understanding rather than feeling
Speaker 2: disappointed with people, I have a much broader take on
Speaker 2: how people work. That helps me to be more supportive
Speaker 2: of the people around me. David began to paint as
Speaker 2: a way of depicting the visions that he had seen.
Speaker 2: One of his paintings is at the beginning of this article.
Speaker 2: Oh let's go see that painting.
Speaker 3: I saw that when I was wondering what that artwork was.
Speaker 2: There we go. Yeah, One of one of his paintings
Speaker 2: depicting the his NDE. So this is what he says
Speaker 2: that he saw in there.
Speaker 3: That's pretty wid a basic an explosion almost, that's kind
Speaker 3: of what it looks like.
Speaker 2: Or maybe some portal or tunnel or something.
Speaker 3: Is that a skull?
Speaker 2: He told us that whenever he had his NDE that
Speaker 2: he felt like he was out like in the like
Speaker 2: floating around in the universe, is how he said. And
Speaker 2: he said that he witnessed seeing a fucking waterfall of stars.
Speaker 2: Like he said that just in the middle of the universe,
Speaker 2: for no reason at all, was a waterfall of just
Speaker 2: stars that were falling like water.
Speaker 3: That that's pretty crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty uh descriptive. So anyway, where were we?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: He also learned to compose classical music as another way
Speaker 2: of conveying the incredible sense of peace and calmness that
Speaker 2: he had that he had experienced. That is fascinating in
Speaker 2: of itself. He's actually gone to like he's produced his
Speaker 2: own what are those people called that they go like this,
Speaker 2: the conductor is nothing conductor, Yeah, the conductor or the composer,
Speaker 2: composer right to to you know, the people of all
Speaker 2: the instruments. My brain's not working right now. I'm sick,
Speaker 2: but anyway, he's been conducting this shit. He never had
Speaker 2: any experience with music at all before his nd and
Speaker 2: now all of a sudden, he's composing fucking orchestras, which
Speaker 2: is crazy, right, Yeah, and became an artist, so like,
Speaker 2: just creative in every facet. So he continue, where was
Speaker 2: you know? I lost my spot? Okay, so he also
Speaker 2: learned to compose classical classical music. These long term changes
Speaker 2: are typical of NDEs. They almost always bring a profound
Speaker 2: shift of values and perspective, which leads which itself leads
Speaker 2: to major lifestyle changes. People often become less materialistic and
Speaker 2: more altruistic, less self oriented, and more compassionate. Like David.
Speaker 2: They often report becoming more sensitive to beauty, more and
Speaker 2: more appreciative of everyday things. So the fact that they
Speaker 2: have such profound after effects makes it seem very unlikely
Speaker 2: that NDEs are a brain generated hallucination. Hallucinations are usually
Speaker 2: quickly forgotten, with a clear sense of that they were
Speaker 2: delusional experiences, less authentic and reliable than ordinary consciousness. Even
Speaker 2: though they seem to contradict our standard materialistic view of reality,
Speaker 2: we have no option but to be open to the end,
Speaker 2: to the idea that NDEs are authentic experiences. So I mean,
Speaker 2: there you go, David fucking Ditchfield. I thought it was
Speaker 2: gonna go a little bit more in detail because and
Speaker 2: maybe maybe I'll get him on the show. Fascinating How
Speaker 2: long ago to have him on the show. Maybe a year,
Speaker 2: year and a half ago something like that?
Speaker 3: On meta Okay, interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very fascinating individual to talk to. He'll go in
Speaker 2: super depth about what he experienced. It'll fucking it'll it'll
Speaker 2: shake you a little bit.
Speaker 3: Damn.
Speaker 2: That's awesome though, very very good. So there's that article,
Speaker 2: all right. I want to get to this Jeremy Renner
Speaker 2: one because this was really recent. This article was written,
Speaker 2: wrote writ Wroten, wrote wrote on May twenty first this year.
Speaker 2: So and anybody that listened to him on the Joe
Speaker 2: Rogan Experience, Man, Joe didn't go into detail about what
Speaker 2: he experienced in his any nd E. And I'm like, Joe,
Speaker 2: what the fuck? Man like guy said that he had
Speaker 2: an nd and You're like, oh, that's interesting, Well what
Speaker 2: else happened? It's like, come on on.
Speaker 3: That is kind of crazy. You would think that Joe
Speaker 3: has been a minute on then.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I don't know, but anyway, this
Speaker 2: is Jeremy Renner explains why he was so pissed off
Speaker 2: when he was quote unquote brought back after snowplow incident.
Speaker 2: U here we go. So Jeremy Renner is opening up
Speaker 2: about the powerful wave of feelings that he experienced after
Speaker 2: regaining consciousness following his near death snowplow accident in January
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty three. On Wednesday, May twenty first, Renner,
Speaker 2: who is fifty four years old, appeared on the Serious
Speaker 2: XM's show called Let's Talk Off Camera with Kelly Rippa
Speaker 2: to promote his recently published memoir called My Next Breath.
Speaker 2: During his conversation with host Kelly Rippa, the actor recalled
Speaker 2: his near death experiences when he broke dozens of bones
Speaker 2: and was left in critical condition after he was struck
Speaker 2: and crushed by a seven ton snowplow at his home
Speaker 2: near Reno, Nevada, on New Year's Day. He goes, it
Speaker 2: was at a great relief, is all I can say.
Speaker 2: It's a wonderful relief to be removed from your body.
Speaker 2: A wonderful relief to be removed from your body.
Speaker 3: He said, Oh, okay, that sounds like people that took
Speaker 3: like a hero's dose of a psychedelic and they're like,
Speaker 3: you're having that ego death.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. It is the most exhilarating piece that
Speaker 2: you could ever feel. You don't see anything but what's
Speaker 2: in your mind's eye. He says, you're the atoms of
Speaker 2: you're the atoms of who you are, the DNA, your
Speaker 2: spirit is. It's the highest adrenaline rush. But the piece
Speaker 2: that comes with it, it's magnificent. It's magnificent. It's so magical.
Speaker 2: And I didn't want to come back, and I remember
Speaker 2: and I was brought back, and I was so pissed off.
Speaker 2: I was gone for I think five minutes or or
Speaker 2: two minutes or ten. But I came back and I
Speaker 2: saw the eyeball again. I don't know what is referrin
Speaker 2: to there, he goes. I'm like, oh shit, I'm back.
Speaker 2: Saw my legs. I'm like, yeah, that's gonna hurt later.
Speaker 2: I'm like, all right, well, let me continue to breathe.
Speaker 2: Rennerd titled his memoir My Next Breath in recognition of
Speaker 2: the solace that he focused or that he found and
Speaker 2: focusing on breathing during the forty five minutes. It took
Speaker 2: for him to receive emergency help, and in the more
Speaker 2: than two years since the accident occurred, oh It says,
Speaker 2: when Rippa asked whether he spoke with anyone while he
Speaker 2: was unconscious, the actors simply stated that he entered a
Speaker 2: plane of existence that was, in quotes not linear. He goes,
Speaker 2: it makes me a man that did not want to
Speaker 2: come back really be able to be back here and
Speaker 2: live on my terms as the captain of my own ship.
Speaker 2: Get on it or get off. I don't give a fuck,
Speaker 2: he said. I'm not going I'm not going to live
Speaker 2: life or I'm going to live life on my own
Speaker 2: terms and for nobody else. I'm very clear. The white
Speaker 2: noise is ripped away. I repel the things that I
Speaker 2: gave credence to. I can't stomach the things that I
Speaker 2: gave that I gave credence to prior to the to
Speaker 2: the accident. I invest in love and my shared relationships
Speaker 2: that I experience love with because that's the only thing
Speaker 2: that you'll take with you.
Speaker 3: Wow. So not in not super le in crept in
Speaker 3: depth detail, but I mean that's all sounds profound. Nonetheless,
Speaker 3: And he's.
Speaker 2: Dude, when you hear him talk about it. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: He just seems like such a good guy, you know,
Speaker 2: but he seems plus Pittsburgh native. That's my people right there.
Speaker 3: Baby, he's a Pittsburgh native.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if it's Pittsburgh or surrounding area,
Speaker 2: but he's he's from that area.
Speaker 3: Interesting, Yeah, dude, well.
Speaker 2: Sounds he sounds like he's from Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3: No doubt. Yeah, I'm trying to see I got I
Speaker 3: found a couple of videos of him talking about it,
Speaker 3: but they're all like ten minutes fourteen minutes long and
Speaker 3: all this and I don't you know, we don'tlyn spend
Speaker 3: that much time listening in on it. But wow, that's interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I would love to hear a yen's from
Speaker 2: him personally. If I can hear a little Pittsburgh ease
Speaker 2: out of him, that would, uh, that would tickle my fancy.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I've heard of YenS though.
Speaker 3: Pittsburgh ease.
Speaker 2: Huh, little Pittsburgh ease, that's our language.
Speaker 3: Wow, you know what? Actually, I found a short let
Speaker 3: me uh, let me share the screen real quick, and
Speaker 3: let's talk. Let's hear rather uh, let's hear your boy
Speaker 3: Jeremy Renner talking on behalf of himself about his nd
Speaker 3: let's go it physically, and to know that that's what
Speaker 3: ran over your leg, oh my whole body.
Speaker 4: Oh gosh, the accident happened because you have to get
Speaker 4: in and out on the off on those tracks.
Speaker 3: And I hit.
Speaker 4: The thumb thing and uh it threw me off and
Speaker 4: I was going towards my nephew, so I had to
Speaker 4: jump back on and try to stop from killing him.
Speaker 3: To if your boughty to run over the entire all,
Speaker 3: it's like.
Speaker 4: It was like you know, you're like you're drowning and
Speaker 4: being struck by lightning and eating out and tell all
Speaker 4: the things all went its thirty eight broken bones and
Speaker 4: eyeballs out.
Speaker 3: Oh and it's a shot out to medical I know, right, bro.
Speaker 2: His eyeball was out of his socket, both.
Speaker 3: Of them apparently.
Speaker 2: Fuck that. Wow. Yeah, it's uh yeah, he really went
Speaker 2: through it. And you want to talk about like that's
Speaker 2: for him to come back like he did. Look at him,
Speaker 2: it looks like nothing happened to him.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, plastic surgery is miracle things real
Speaker 3: shit here, But I mean, cool, all right, you know
Speaker 3: this is him getting emotional about near death experience. Let's
Speaker 3: listen in it's been the reaction from your friends, your
Speaker 3: loved ones, colleagues with this new new look at life.
Speaker 4: There's there's with with that, Oprah, there's that's where a
Speaker 4: lot of it's it's was. It was all a connected
Speaker 4: thing anyway. It wasn't just it just didn't just happen
Speaker 4: to me.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: Mine might have gotten ran over, but I affected so
Speaker 4: many people in my life that I love dearly, so
Speaker 4: many people that in the ripple effect of that goes
Speaker 4: beyond Yes, we're here talking about it now on a
Speaker 4: podcast two years later. So I held responsibility to that
Speaker 4: and used that as fuel to heal my family and
Speaker 4: knows that I've hurt and giving the I gave them
Speaker 4: a lot of toxic, awful images and dreams. And like
Speaker 4: my poor nephew, he had to watch me holding my
Speaker 4: arm die in the ice of my eyeball out.
Speaker 3: Yeah you can't, right, yeah.
Speaker 4: So in me never worrying about getting better, I just
Speaker 4: had to get better.
Speaker 3: To help them. So whatever my physical.
Speaker 4: Milestones were, they were always fueled by number one, my daughter,
Speaker 4: and then the rest of my family too, because I
Speaker 4: love them so deeply. I couldn't bear the responsibility of
Speaker 4: giving them nightmares for the rest of her life.
Speaker 3: I said, it might die.
Speaker 4: So I'm going to take this one way road of recovery,
Speaker 4: and God damn it, I'm gonna recover, and God damn it,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna get better every damn day for my family,
Speaker 4: for my daughter.
Speaker 3: And that's how I got better so fast.
Speaker 4: And then there's miracles involved at every turn here, with
Speaker 4: every doctor, very my you know, there's it took a
Speaker 4: thousand people to keep me alive, okay, but to get
Speaker 4: better once I wasn't dying. It was my family and
Speaker 4: my love, my deep love, the safe landing spot of
Speaker 4: love that I have with my family all my life
Speaker 4: and not wanting to disappoint them. So fortunate that I
Speaker 4: had that one way road of recovery.
Speaker 3: Wow on Oprah talking about it, Oh God, I just
Speaker 3: love that guy. That's insane, dude.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's And that's the thing is that it
Speaker 2: has such a profound effect on literally everybody, everybody that
Speaker 2: has had an experience. You're like, they they say, it's
Speaker 2: it sticks with you, like it's you know, you're never
Speaker 2: going to forget that. And you know, I mean, hey,
Speaker 2: it's just a thing where it's a thing where everybody's
Speaker 2: trying to figure out what the hell it is. You know,
Speaker 2: is it proof of the afterlife or is it proof
Speaker 2: that we exist outside the body even though we perceive
Speaker 2: that we do. I don't know, you know, this is
Speaker 2: actually a really good story. This is one that actually
Speaker 2: sparked my interest in wanting to do this episode. I
Speaker 2: found this article like a week ago and I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I got to get back into do
Speaker 2: you want to show on NDEES because this fucking one
Speaker 2: got me.
Speaker 3: We've had a few people requests that we do a
Speaker 3: show on indies, but there's so many stories and so
Speaker 3: many different stories, so many similar stories, it's very difficult
Speaker 3: to pinpoint a direction even when it comes to these
Speaker 3: types of things bro over.
Speaker 2: There's tens of thousands, tens of thousands of documented stories,
Speaker 2: tens of thousands, and the main if anybody ever wants
Speaker 2: to go and check these out, you can just literally
Speaker 2: go and read them until you die. There's so many stories.
Speaker 2: If you want to go to NDERF dot org, which
Speaker 2: is Near Death Experience Research Foundation dot org, they document
Speaker 2: literally tens of thousands of them over there. It's crazy,
Speaker 2: and they're still uploading more every day, like it's a
Speaker 2: thing that people have one and they know that they
Speaker 2: can go to that website and document it.
Speaker 3: That's incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty awesome. But this is from spooky site
Speaker 2: dot com. It says woman declared dead for eight minutes
Speaker 2: says that she discovered that death is an illusion.
Speaker 3: Has written also real quick, while we have a minute,
Speaker 3: and we just played some videos. We got a bunch
Speaker 3: of articles we've been reading here Frenny coltmember that is
Speaker 3: trying to see these things rather than just hear about them. Jonathan,
Speaker 3: where can they go? How can they get a hold
Speaker 3: of that?
Speaker 2: Well, we always we want you to be able to
Speaker 2: see with your third eye. But if that third eye
Speaker 2: is not really feeling up the part today and you
Speaker 2: need to see with your other two eyes, then you
Speaker 2: got a Patreon dot com slash Cult of Conspiracy podcast.
Speaker 2: That link is now in the show notes below. It's
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Speaker 2: every Tuesday night at nine pm Central on a zoom call.
Speaker 2: We call it the Cult Member Live Show. We go
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Speaker 2: Tuesday night. We know you ain't doing shit on a
Speaker 2: Tuesday night, you may as well just come hang out
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Speaker 2: reason why most people go to Patreon is because it
Speaker 2: is completely flulessly Yeah, buddy, so come on over. Stop
Speaker 2: wasting your time, save your finger a couple extra clicks
Speaker 2: instead of just hitting fast forward all the time.
Speaker 3: You ain't got to hit fast forward on shit on Patreon. Okay,
Speaker 3: that's right.
Speaker 2: That being said. Woman declared dead for eight minutes says
Speaker 2: that she discovered that death is an illusion says for
Speaker 2: as long as humans have been able to think about
Speaker 2: their own existence, we've wondered about the moments, About the
Speaker 2: moment that it ends. What happens when the last heartbeat fades?
Speaker 2: Do we simply vanished into nothingness? Or is there something
Speaker 2: somewhere waiting on the other side. Throughout history, countless people
Speaker 2: have claimed to catch a glimpse of what comes next
Speaker 2: In quotes, Some call it the afterlife, others believe that
Speaker 2: it's a different dimension, and skeptics argue that it's just
Speaker 2: the brain's final electrical fireworks before the lights go out.
Speaker 2: But every so often a story comes along that refuses
Speaker 2: to fit neatly into any explanation. This is one of
Speaker 2: those stories, the account of Brianna Lafferty, a thirty three
Speaker 2: year old woman from Colorado who, for eight measured minutes,
Speaker 2: was clinically dead, yet she swears that she was more
Speaker 2: alive than ever. So who is Brandon Lafferty? Brianna is
Speaker 2: no stranger to living with physical challenges. She was diagnosed
Speaker 2: years ago with myoclonist, a rare neurobiological disorder that causes
Speaker 2: her muscles to contract suddenly and uncontrollably. Fuck that, imagine
Speaker 2: trying to write, walk, or even stand while your own
Speaker 2: body decides to move without permission. The condition is disruptive,
Speaker 2: but it was something that she had learned to manage,
Speaker 2: that is, until her body suddenly gave out. One day,
Speaker 2: her heart stopped beating. Medical staff worked frantically, but there
Speaker 2: was no pulse, no breath, and no measurable brain activity.
Speaker 2: For eight minutes every standard, by every standard in modern medicine.
Speaker 2: She was gone. Yet Brianna says that she didn't go
Speaker 2: anywhere in the way that we imagine. In fact, she
Speaker 2: says that she never lost awareness, not even for a second,
Speaker 2: so the moment of departure. Brianna describes the sensation of
Speaker 2: leaving her body as unexpectedly calm. She wasn't, in quotes,
Speaker 2: pulled or pulled out or forced away. It felt more
Speaker 2: like gently stepping out of a heavy coat that she
Speaker 2: didn't know that she had been wearing. From above, she
Speaker 2: could see what was happening below, but she wasn't particularly
Speaker 2: interested in her lifeless form or the panic of the room.
Speaker 2: Her attention shifted almost immediately towards something else, a pull
Speaker 2: into what she calls a space without time. In this place,
Speaker 2: there were no seconds, minutes, or hours. Yet she was
Speaker 2: fully conscious. She says that she felt more herself than
Speaker 2: she had ever felt while alive, as if the version
Speaker 2: of Brianna. She as if the version of Brianna she
Speaker 2: had known on Earth was just a smaller fragment of
Speaker 2: a much larger being. Oh fuck, yeah, dude, Wow. There
Speaker 2: was no pain, no fear, no sense of needing to breathe,
Speaker 2: just a steady, comforting awareness, says. One of the most
Speaker 2: fascinating parts of Brianna's story is how the environment seemed
Speaker 2: to respond to her thoughts. At first, she noticed that
Speaker 2: whatever she focused on began to form around her, but slowly,
Speaker 2: as the universe there took its time answering her. If
Speaker 2: a negative thought emerged, she had space to shift it
Speaker 2: into something positive before it fully materialized. She found herself
Speaker 2: deliberately choosing peaceful, loving images, knowing that they would eventually
Speaker 2: shape her surroundings. To her, this felt like proof that
Speaker 2: even beyond the boundaries of life, the mind or consciousness
Speaker 2: has creative power. Dude, that's fucking awesome. Yeah right, so,
Speaker 2: says eight minutes or eight months, says Back on Earth,
Speaker 2: the clock recorded her absence at exactly eight minutes, But
Speaker 2: in that other space, Brianna felt like it like months
Speaker 2: had passed. She had time to explore, reflect, and even
Speaker 2: interact with what she calls familiar presences. She doesn't claim
Speaker 2: that these presences were human in the way that we
Speaker 2: understand humanity. They seem to be beings of awareness, not flesh,
Speaker 2: radiating a sense of unconditional acceptance. As someone within this
Speaker 2: vast stillness. She says that she sends a greater presence,
Speaker 2: something wise, loving and infinitely patient. There was no quote
Speaker 2: unquote voice, yet its guidance was unmistakable, so it says
Speaker 2: among the Stranger Stranger revelations, Brianna brought back with UH
Speaker 2: with her conviction that the universe is fundamentally made of numbers,
Speaker 2: not just in the way mathematicians use equations to describe physics,
Speaker 2: but as if reality itself is constructed from numerical patterns,
Speaker 2: a kind of cosmic code. This isn't an entirely new concept.
Speaker 2: Ancient Greek philosopher Pythagorasts believe numbers formed the building blocks
Speaker 2: of everything. Modern physicists sometimes speak about the mathematical universe hypothesis,
Speaker 2: which suggests that the physical world is at its core
Speaker 2: a mathematical structure. Brianna didn't arrive at this idea through study.
Speaker 2: She says that she simply knew it while she was there.
Speaker 2: WHOA so coming, I.
Speaker 3: Mean a mathematical structure? Do we Do you think they
Speaker 3: mean like the Matrix movie it's all ones and zeros,
Speaker 3: or do you think they mean more like uh, you know,
Speaker 3: chemically speaking, a atomic numbers and atomic masses and specific
Speaker 3: gravities and these types of numbers. What do you think
Speaker 3: she means?
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, it could just be all of it. I
Speaker 2: don't know sure, I guess, but anyhow, it says, coming
Speaker 2: back wasn't graceful. Brando awoke to a damaged body. She
Speaker 2: had to relearn how to walk and speak. Her pituitary
Speaker 2: gland and important hormone regulator had been harmed, leading to
Speaker 2: health complications that required experimental brain surgery. She admits that
Speaker 2: she is afraid of going through another near death event,
Speaker 2: but she's also grateful, grateful for the perspective that it
Speaker 2: gave her. Today, she describes her purpose, her purpose as
Speaker 2: living deliberately, even if she doesn't have a step by
Speaker 2: step mission plan. She is less afraid of death, more
Speaker 2: appreciative of life, and more aware of how her thoughts
Speaker 2: shape her experience. So it says, while Brianna's story is
Speaker 2: deeply personal, scientists have long tried to explain near death
Speaker 2: experiences in purely biological terms. Some neurologists suggest are caused
Speaker 2: by the anoxia, which is the lack of the oxygen
Speaker 2: of the brain. Others point to a flood of neurotransmitters
Speaker 2: like endorphins and dopamine, which could create sensations of euphoria
Speaker 2: and visions of light. Researchers have also studied the right
Speaker 2: tempo temporo parietal cortex, an area of the brain responsible
Speaker 2: for processing information about the body in space. When this
Speaker 2: region malfunctions, whether through trauma, seizure or oxygen deprivation, it
Speaker 2: can produce the feeling of floating outside the body or
Speaker 2: moving through a tunnel. From this perspective, NDEs aren't windows
Speaker 2: into another world, but the brain's final protective illusions.
Speaker 3: I understand the scientific perspective of saying, like, you know,
Speaker 3: and that's that's true. Lack of oxygen to the brain
Speaker 3: will cause hallucinations. That's that's not a disputable fact. Saying
Speaker 3: that it's your brain firing off the last bit of
Speaker 3: chemicals before it goes dark. I understand that too, you know,
Speaker 3: one hundred percent. I'm not saying that I think that
Speaker 3: every single NDE that is clearly what's happening here. But
Speaker 3: at least I can understand the academic approach to them
Speaker 3: if that is the route they're trying to.
Speaker 2: Go right right, And I will say that science is
Speaker 2: usually good at one thing, and that is to figure
Speaker 2: out why a thing does what it does or not
Speaker 2: not how a thing does what it does right. But
Speaker 2: it never under it never explains why a thing does
Speaker 2: what it does right. It's it's always just like how
Speaker 2: does it do it? You know? And I think that
Speaker 2: I think that you know, you're you're not going to
Speaker 2: get a how understanding of a near death experience.
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 2: I mean that in order in order to understand it,
Speaker 2: you would have to accept that we have a soul
Speaker 2: or a consciousness or a spirit or whatever you want
Speaker 2: to call that.
Speaker 3: But see as the thing. Most scientists, and most into
Speaker 3: varying degrees of quote unquote science, where it's theoretical physics,
Speaker 3: whether it's astro theology or whatever. Most of them are,
Speaker 3: for lack of better words, let's say religious. However, they
Speaker 3: use science as the means to explain the how, and
Speaker 3: they use their religion to explain the why. Sometimes the
Speaker 3: two converge, sometimes they don't. But typically science, like we said,
Speaker 3: it's the study of how this works and maybe why
Speaker 3: does this work? But that's kind of a rarity, you know,
Speaker 3: unless it's something that you can track and that's like,
Speaker 3: you see, this happened A plus B equaled C, and
Speaker 3: here's how we track that. So now we know this happened,
Speaker 3: and this happened. This is how we got to hear
Speaker 3: this is why this happened. But big picture why it's
Speaker 3: very rarely does that come into the conversation. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so I don't even think they're really that
Speaker 2: concerned with it, to be honest with you.
Speaker 3: Not typically unless it, like you know, adds into their
Speaker 3: field of study in some way, shape or form, which
Speaker 3: rarely it does. But yeah, it's I understand why the
Speaker 3: scientists are looking at it from their analytical point of view,
Speaker 3: and they're trying to find the real world justification as
Speaker 3: to why the brain is doing these wild things. I
Speaker 3: at least I can understand that. But again, some of these,
Speaker 3: especially if you go in any of the good cult members,
Speaker 3: if you go and look at the list of indies,
Speaker 3: some of them can easily be chalked up to you, Well, yeah,
Speaker 3: the brain was, you know, lack of oxygen started the
Speaker 3: hallucination process. The brain started firing off the last of
Speaker 3: its chemicals. That's totally why they had a trippy thing happen,
Speaker 3: and then they woke up and they snapped back. That
Speaker 3: totally makes sense. Some of them don't line up at all.
Speaker 2: Well, And the thing is, the thing is, like, all right,
Speaker 2: just because you can explain what chemicals and what may
Speaker 2: be going on in the brain, that you may be
Speaker 2: able to determine how it happened, you might be able
Speaker 2: to determine how it happened. But that does not, in
Speaker 2: my opinion, that does not eliminate the why at all.
Speaker 2: You know, like, for example, if somebody, if you were
Speaker 2: to tell a fucking doctor or a neuroscientist or whatever
Speaker 2: about your demon and angel story, you know, they would
Speaker 2: try and figure out, well, what was going on in
Speaker 2: your brain? You know, what was firing, what was not firing.
Speaker 2: Were you in some kind of state of mind and
Speaker 2: that's what allowed it to happen? Now, does that dismiss
Speaker 2: that you actually had that experience or does it just
Speaker 2: show you what was going on in your brain and
Speaker 2: in your body at that time of that occurrence?
Speaker 3: Right right? You know, I mean that's it's not exactly indeed,
Speaker 3: but I like more than one thing could be happening
Speaker 3: at once.
Speaker 2: That's just my point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, dot dot duh.
Speaker 2: All right, So it says, uh. Still, what makes NDEs
Speaker 2: intriguing is how consistent they are. They are across different
Speaker 2: cultures and time periods. Ancient Egyptian texts describe journeys into
Speaker 2: the other realms after death. Tibetan Buddhism teaches about the
Speaker 2: quote unquote bardo, which is a transitional state between death
Speaker 2: and rebirth. In some indigenous traditions, people speak of traveling
Speaker 2: across a bridge or river to meet ancestors. While the
Speaker 2: imagery varies, the themes light piece, familiar presences show up
Speaker 2: again and again. Even among modern survivors, similarities emerge, which
Speaker 2: is a feeling of leaving the body, a perception of
Speaker 2: moving through darkness toward light, encounters with guiding beings, a
Speaker 2: review of one's life, or a decision or command to return.
Speaker 2: Brianna's account fits fits neatly with these within these patterns,
Speaker 2: yet it has its own unique twists, like the concept
Speaker 2: of the universe being made of numbers.
Speaker 3: I see the quote from her saying we are binary code,
Speaker 3: So I guess that answers the question. She didn't mean
Speaker 3: like atomic numbers. She meant ones and zero. She meant
Speaker 3: the matrix.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they say it's a documentary, you know, man,
Speaker 2: I mean maybe not fully, you know, but midways.
Speaker 3: How do we know?
Speaker 2: How?
Speaker 3: How do we know?
Speaker 2: No way to prove it right? Or is there?
Speaker 3: Or is there? So?
Speaker 2: What was Brianna's experience? Was it a true journey beyond
Speaker 2: death's edge or the brain's intricate farewell performance? Science can't say,
Speaker 2: can't yet say for sure. What's clear is that the
Speaker 2: experience experiences like hers, whether interpreted spiritually or neurologically, can
Speaker 2: leave lasting changes. People often return with less fear of death,
Speaker 2: greater compassion, and a renewed sense of purpose. For Brianna,
Speaker 2: the message is simple but powerful. Death isn't an ending,
Speaker 2: It's a change of address.
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean I don't disagree with that.
Speaker 2: What a fucking quote. That was awesome. So it says
Speaker 2: whether or not you believe her, the thought has a
Speaker 2: certain comfort after all death. If death really is just
Speaker 2: an illusion, maybe the final chapter of life is not
Speaker 2: the end of the story, just the start of a
Speaker 2: very different one. I full, I mean, how could you
Speaker 2: even disagree with that? You know?
Speaker 3: I personally I do agree with what she says. I
Speaker 3: think we may be coming from different places, but I
Speaker 3: don't find any fallacies of what you just said.
Speaker 2: I mean they say that space is the final frontier.
Speaker 2: I would imagine that death.
Speaker 3: Is technically speaking the final frontier. Yeah, you know, it's
Speaker 3: the last place you're going to explore.
Speaker 2: So I get you, as your physical body, that's the
Speaker 2: last place your physical frontier is ever going to, you know, trek.
Speaker 3: But see, that's the thing your physical body stays are.
Speaker 3: Your physical body doesn't explore death.
Speaker 2: Good point, Yeah, good point. All right, we'll go on
Speaker 2: that one next these I let me see. I mean,
Speaker 2: we can go on and on, bro. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: entirely up to you. You want to keep on hearing stories,
Speaker 2: because I got a shitload of them.
Speaker 3: I'm down.
Speaker 2: All right, let's get weird then, because this website was
Speaker 2: fucking awesome and I was hoping that we were going
Speaker 2: to get to it. This is from guideposts dot org.
Speaker 2: It says five incredible stories some near death experiences. These
Speaker 2: inspiring firsthand accounts of heaven shed light on the peace, glory,
Speaker 2: and love that awaits us in the afterlife. Says what
Speaker 2: awaits us after life on Earth? Is heaven real? Can
Speaker 2: near death experiences experience stories give us the answer? Those
Speaker 2: who have had near death experiences say that heaven is
Speaker 2: unequivocally real, and it is, and it is full of
Speaker 2: unimaginable wonder. Below our accounts of Heaven are accounts of
Speaker 2: Heaven from people who have been there and back. These
Speaker 2: indies stories shed light on the incredible peace, glory, and
Speaker 2: love that we can look forward to in the afterlife.
Speaker 2: So here are five of the incredible stories. It says
Speaker 2: Don Piper's Heavenly Experience. And these go into a lot
Speaker 2: more in detail. So obviously we're not going to read
Speaker 2: all of the stories, but I'm gonna read, you know,
Speaker 2: the the basically wrap up of the story, and you
Speaker 2: tell me if you find one more interesting than another. Right, So,
Speaker 2: Don Piper's Heavenly Experienced, It says Don Piper a minute
Speaker 2: was driving home to Alvin, Texas from a convention when
Speaker 2: he got into a terrible head on collision with an
Speaker 2: eighteen wheeler. First Responders at the scene couldn't find a
Speaker 2: pulse and he was declared dead. But upon impact, Don
Speaker 2: had been transported somewhere else. He'd been driving one minute
Speaker 2: and the next he was standing in heaven. Joy pulsed
Speaker 2: through him as he became aware of a large group
Speaker 2: of his loved ones who had passed on before him.
Speaker 2: Standing in front of an ornate gait, he walked towards
Speaker 2: the gate. He had no idea what laid ahead, but
Speaker 2: he felt that with each step, Heaven would grow more wondrous.
Speaker 3: Now, I know there's going to be some people say, well,
Speaker 3: of course, I'm pastor is going to see heaven and
Speaker 3: that makes sense. Well, like, yeah, it does make sense,
Speaker 3: though it does I mean not even from a judgment point.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that that's what he believed, so it
Speaker 3: would be you know, I would say statistically most likely
Speaker 3: that that would be what he would experience if it
Speaker 3: all is just you know, in your head. Now, that's
Speaker 3: another thing I'm curious about of the NDE experiences. And
Speaker 3: I don't know if anybody's actually sat down and quantified
Speaker 3: the numbers on this are like ran the numbers. But
Speaker 3: how many of these people saw something that they believed
Speaker 3: in any way? And how many of these people saw
Speaker 3: something that they didn't necessarily believe in beforehand, but now
Speaker 3: they do? And to whatever degree. You know, if you,
Speaker 3: let's say, were born and raised a Southern Baptist, you
Speaker 3: died and you saw Vishnu. Like you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: How many of these people saw something that is absolutely
Speaker 3: outside of the realm of what they thought was reality
Speaker 3: and now they believe that's the truth.
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know, I mean, it's really wide ranging.
Speaker 2: Some people get, you know, their experiences confirm their beliefs.
Speaker 2: Some people have experiences that make them want to move
Speaker 2: away from their beliefs. You know. It's not necessarily like
Speaker 2: you know, hammered down, you know, as far as the
Speaker 2: numbers go from what I can tell, because it's varying
Speaker 2: stories both ways. Some people feel like absolutely I approven
Speaker 2: that God exists and Heaven exists and da da da
Speaker 2: da dah, you know, and in many other ways. So yeah,
Speaker 2: so that was your boy, Don Piper, the pastor or
Speaker 2: minister rather. The next one is Bubba Bay's miraculous encounter.
Speaker 2: While on a walk one night, Jim Bubba Bay slipped
Speaker 2: and fell fourteen feet into a concrete culvert. His skull
Speaker 2: was oh fuck me. His skull was cracked, and his
Speaker 2: shoulder and his shoulder blade, eleven ribs, and ten vertebrae
Speaker 2: were broken. He was in absolutely excruciating pain until a
Speaker 2: blinding sight appeared, illuminating his surroundings and washing away his suffering.
Speaker 2: From the light walked a man with a kind of
Speaker 2: weathered face and a long beard. He held in his arms.
Speaker 2: Two children. That's a fucking cliffhanger right there, and we're
Speaker 2: gonna read through all of them, and then you tell
Speaker 2: me which one you want to go back and reading.
Speaker 2: Then there's Lori Lambert's conversation with Angels. So A Navy technician,
Speaker 2: Lorie Lambert was on a team building experience kayaking through
Speaker 2: rapids when she capsized and was flung into the freezing river.
Speaker 2: She gasped, gasped, and her lung lungs filled with water.
Speaker 2: She was being pushed down and couldn't get to the surface.
Speaker 2: She was drowning. Oh God, please help me, she thought.
Speaker 2: Then she was zooming through a tunnel of pure white.
Speaker 2: She came out on the other side in an otherworldly room.
Speaker 2: Three beings stood before her, made of giant, shimmering crystal.
Speaker 2: They radiated pure love. Laurie's fears subsided, and she felt
Speaker 2: calm and comforted in their presence. The middle being said,
Speaker 2: before you go back, we are going to show you
Speaker 2: some things, and opened a book of moving images.
Speaker 3: Interesting.
Speaker 2: Then there's Mike Olston. He said, who Mike Olsen thanked
Speaker 2: in heaven? So, during a double lung transplant, Mike olsen
Speaker 2: surgeon released a clamp too soon, causing him to bleed out.
Speaker 2: He recounts him. He recounts being aware that he was
Speaker 2: on the operating table with medical personnel scrambling to save him,
Speaker 2: and then being transported in a sudden burst of energy
Speaker 2: to a place of blinding white light that's surrounded him
Speaker 2: and stretched on endlessly. It filled him with peace and joy.
Speaker 2: Then he saw a figure walking towards him. It was Jesus,
Speaker 2: and alongside him someone else done Dune done.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's a good one.
Speaker 2: The next one is Yvonne Nocta gal her comfort on
Speaker 2: the wings of an angel. So, during a surgery to
Speaker 2: remove a brain tumor, Yvonne left her body and found
Speaker 2: herself in another realm. She was surrounded by warm, beautiful colors.
Speaker 2: While taking everything in, she realized that she had died
Speaker 2: and was in the spiritual realm. She wasn't upset or afraid.
Speaker 2: She was comforted by the feeling of being held by
Speaker 2: an enormous wing, the wing of an angel. She felt
Speaker 2: utterly surrounded by love. There we go.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, well, I mean, do any of those
Speaker 3: really tickle your fancy?
Speaker 2: I got a bunch more if none of those really did.
Speaker 3: It for her? I mean they all seemed solid, but
Speaker 3: nothing really stood out to me as like more incredible
Speaker 3: than the other. Honestly, very well, but well where Jesus
Speaker 3: and someone else walked up? I mean, my normal human
Speaker 3: curiosity is begging to know who is the other.
Speaker 2: Person, but say less than let's do that one? Which
Speaker 2: one was that?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mike Olsen, Here we go?
Speaker 3: And the only reason why is because that fucking book,
Speaker 3: The Five People You Meet in Heaven? Yeah, yeah, you.
Speaker 2: Man, it was a video, but the video is not there.
Speaker 2: Let's see what this says, blinding white Light. Oh that
Speaker 2: this is the story. I think it's written out.
Speaker 3: Okay, maybe.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's the same story though. What was
Speaker 2: his name, Mike Olsen?
Speaker 3: No, MI.
Speaker 2: Don't know. This is some guy named Buddy. I don't
Speaker 2: know why it'd sent us there.
Speaker 3: Okay, either way, it says, just as the rattlesnakes slashed
Speaker 3: out in him and divine light appeared, angelic bright light
Speaker 3: protected him from.
Speaker 2: Danger, it's not Jesus though. It's not the one we wanted, right, well, okay,
Speaker 2: I mean I guess we I thought we were gonna
Speaker 2: be able to get to some of those, but I
Speaker 2: guess not. Oh wait, uh, you know, read and watch. Yeah,
Speaker 2: some of these you can read and watch. Some of
Speaker 2: them are you can only watch. Of course, you pick
Speaker 2: the one where that's the only one where you have
Speaker 2: to watch. Anyway, there's plenty of other stories. We'll get
Speaker 2: to them. This is an interesting one, and we're not
Speaker 2: gonna read this whole thing, but some of it, oh
Speaker 2: it's blurred out anyway. Okay, of course you know some
Speaker 2: of this shit. It's like it gives you access to
Speaker 2: it on your phone, but then you go and upload
Speaker 2: it to the computer and it's like you have to
Speaker 2: pay for this. I'm like, why didn't I have to
Speaker 2: pay for it on my phone?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: You know? So weird. There's an interesting one right here.
Speaker 2: This is one of the more documented ones. This is
Speaker 2: from Betty Edieu. She was an older gal born in
Speaker 2: nineteen It says she's an American author of several books
Speaker 2: on near death experiences. Her best known book is called
Speaker 2: Embraced by the Light in nineteen ninety two describing her NDE.
Speaker 2: It was followed by the other books that she kept
Speaker 2: on going on with. Let's get to her ENDE account.
Speaker 2: So in her near death experience, Edie reports many phenomena
Speaker 2: similar to other NDIE accounts, such as going through a
Speaker 2: dark tunnel, seeing a bright light, and experiencing a life review,
Speaker 2: as well as other features unique to her story. In
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, at age of thirty one, Edie was
Speaker 2: recovering from a surgical operation. Edie reported that she first
Speaker 2: felt first felt herself fading into lifelessness, then felt a
Speaker 2: surge of energy, followed by a pop and a feeling
Speaker 2: of release, a sense of freedom and movement unhindered by
Speaker 2: inertia or gravity. She was met by three angelic beings
Speaker 2: who spoke with her about her prior existence and hitherto
Speaker 2: suppressed memories in order to participate in earthly experience. Dude,
Speaker 2: that's crazy, right, She had to lose her memories in
Speaker 2: order to participate in the earthly experience. That's fucking awesome.
Speaker 2: That's kind of what I expect.
Speaker 3: Actually, that's fucking wild.
Speaker 2: So she traveled to terrestrial locations such as her home
Speaker 2: merely by thinking about them, returned to her hospital and
Speaker 2: then passed on through a dark tunnel like medium in
Speaker 2: which she reported sensing other beings in a transitory preparatory stage.
Speaker 2: Exiting the tunnel, Edie approached an intense white light and
Speaker 2: met in heaven the embrace of Jesus Christ. There you go,
Speaker 2: there's a Jesus story for you, okay. During this encounter,
Speaker 2: she reported a strong sense of love and a high
Speaker 2: and a high, high speed transfer of answers to her
Speaker 2: many questions, Oh shit, that almost sounds like my mushroom
Speaker 2: experience a little bit. Possessing a corporeal identity of an
Speaker 2: ethereal kind, she visited in numerous places persons and phenomena
Speaker 2: such as natural settings and gardens. Beyond the character of
Speaker 2: the conventionally material. It was taken on a tour of
Speaker 2: sorts of learning experiences that she had felt equivalent to
Speaker 2: weeks or months, so it felt like it lasted a
Speaker 2: long time, but it didn't. In addition to her to
Speaker 2: discussing traditional Christian subjects such as prayer, creation, and the
Speaker 2: Garden of Eden, Edie reported visiting a library of the mind.
Speaker 2: Sometimes people call that the Acoshic.
Speaker 3: Records is that what she means?
Speaker 2: Maybe it says here. It became possible to know anything
Speaker 2: or anyone in history or the present in minute and
Speaker 2: unambiguous detail or in minute and unambiguous detail, as well
Speaker 2: as being able to observe individuals on Earth and being
Speaker 2: taken to distant reaches and civilizations of the universe. Warned
Speaker 2: initially upon arrival that she had died prematurely, so she
Speaker 2: was warned about it, Edie was told that she must
Speaker 2: return in order to fulfill the personal mission allocated tour.
Speaker 2: Its specific character, like numerous other details were removed from
Speaker 2: her memory in order. She said that she was told
Speaker 2: to prevent difficulties in her fulfilling it, so she knew
Speaker 2: what her mission was, but that got erased from her
Speaker 2: mind so that she so that she wouldn't have any
Speaker 2: difficulties fulfilling it. Upon protesting, she was made to understand
Speaker 2: the reason behind the necessity for her to return, and
Speaker 2: reluctantly agreed to do so. She exacted a promise that
Speaker 2: she would not be would not be made to stay
Speaker 2: on Earth longer than necessary. She reported her return to
Speaker 2: material corpore reality as extremely heavy feeling and unpleasant. Initially
Speaker 2: intermittent in phases, and accompanied not long after by a
Speaker 2: demonic visitation that was cut short by an angelic reappearance.
Speaker 2: Doctor reportedly verified her clinical death on a return visit
Speaker 2: to the hospital, attributing it to a hemorrhage during a
Speaker 2: nurse's shift change, and took great interest in her recollections.
Speaker 2: Independent verification of the length of her death was not possible,
Speaker 2: but she speculated that it could have lasted up to
Speaker 2: four hours based on her memory of certain details preceding
Speaker 2: and following it. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Why why when we say could have lasted four hours,
Speaker 3: is that the number four or just could have lasted
Speaker 3: for hours?
Speaker 2: Uh four? Yeah, like the number four yep, four hours? Yep. Geez.
Speaker 3: I mean, but how do you even quantify, Like we've said,
Speaker 3: time works different? There it do? Right?
Speaker 2: Well? I think that she was talking about the Yeah,
Speaker 2: it says the independent verification of the length of her
Speaker 2: death was not possible, but she speculated that it could
Speaker 2: have lasted up to four hours based on her memory
Speaker 2: of certain details preceding and following it.
Speaker 3: So that's what I'm saying. Though, It's like that was
Speaker 3: a feeling that it was four hours. Do we even
Speaker 3: know that for a fact.
Speaker 2: No, that's what I'm saying. It wasn't possible. I guess
Speaker 2: they didn't, you know, keep tracking.
Speaker 3: A dream could last fuck, a dream could feel like
Speaker 3: it lasts a week and it last thirty seconds. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's oh man, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, that's the problem with these kind of
Speaker 2: things is that they're pretty damn fluid, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. Like it's hard to really grasp it, right,
Speaker 2: so it says. Subsequent to her experience, she spoke of
Speaker 2: it very little and suffered a long term depression. This
Speaker 2: she attributed to the anti climactic nature of returning to
Speaker 2: corpore reality or poor reality. That's a hard word to say.
Speaker 2: After experiencing the heaven of afterlife, she slowly became involved
Speaker 2: in near death groups and studies and gave talks. Subsequently,
Speaker 2: going on to write her account in book form, which
Speaker 2: she met with a runaway success. While her account incorporated
Speaker 2: elements of traditional Christianity, it also met with a certain
Speaker 2: degree of resistance as well. This was largely in part
Speaker 2: to its teaching, as she reported that she was given
Speaker 2: it that some denominations might approximate truths, might approximate truth
Speaker 2: better than others. She explains, however, that different teachings were
Speaker 2: more appropriate for certain individuals at their given age of
Speaker 2: spiritual development, and therefore judgment should not be passed on
Speaker 2: them from where they are, Unlike many fundamentalist Christians, and
Speaker 2: despite her her own strict Catholic upbringing and a temporary
Speaker 2: conversion to the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ through the
Speaker 2: Church of Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints Mormon.
Speaker 3: She went from Catholic to Mormon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what it says.
Speaker 3: That is not a transition you typically see people make.
Speaker 2: But I yeah, and it says. And after her near
Speaker 2: death experience, she refers to God as h E instead
Speaker 2: of He, so little h E instead of big ag
Speaker 2: and insists that all religions are necessary for each person.
Speaker 2: She claims that each religion is necessary for each person
Speaker 2: because of their different levels of spiritual enlightenment. This is
Speaker 2: contrary to the views shared by many Christian denominations worldwide
Speaker 2: the Christianity is the one true, valid religion. Many of
Speaker 2: her statements also are ambiguous or conflict with mainstream doctrine
Speaker 2: of the Trinity, and her website disavows the traditional condemnation
Speaker 2: of homosexuality. Okay, that's not what we came for. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: I disagree with that as well.
Speaker 3: But you know, so she changed from God being the big,
Speaker 3: big H to little Ah, basically saying that he is
Speaker 3: one of many or yeah, maybe is that it's like
Speaker 3: saying that God or little G God, little G God
Speaker 3: is everything from Odin and Zeus and Poseidon to you know,
Speaker 3: the Vishnu and Kristna and all these things. But the
Speaker 3: big g God is supposed to be like the guy.
Speaker 3: It's the same type of import there.
Speaker 2: So I know what she meant by that, because she
Speaker 2: was saying that she was like talking to angels and shit, and.
Speaker 3: That's what I thought. But okay, so her experience basically
Speaker 3: told her that, like everybody is experiencing their own thing
Speaker 3: based off of what they know. Like all right, dumb,
Speaker 3: but okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean everybody. You need a lens to look
Speaker 2: through some people, I mean most, I guess. Anyway, we'll
Speaker 2: move on to the last story here. This is this,
Speaker 2: you know, and I looked up, like, what were the
Speaker 2: most profound nd EE stories, and so that one came up,
Speaker 2: and this one also came up as far as like
Speaker 2: not even just the most profound but the one of
Speaker 2: the most talked about and documented stories because I wanted
Speaker 2: to be able to like cause, you know, you go
Speaker 2: on to nderf dot org, you'll find you know their
Speaker 2: story in written form, and then enderf will ask them
Speaker 2: a bunch of questions. And usually the story is not,
Speaker 2: you know, documented until twenty or thirty years after, you know,
Speaker 2: just yeah, people not knowing that the website exists, or
Speaker 2: not wanting to talk about it or whatever. It Sometimes
Speaker 2: it's deeply personal you don't want to talk about it.
Speaker 2: I get it. But this is from Anita Morjani So.
Speaker 2: She's an author of a New York Times bestseller called
Speaker 2: Dying to Be Me. She uh after she was let's
Speaker 2: see so after she was diagnosed with stage two A
Speaker 2: Hodgkins lymphoma in two thousand and two and rejected conventional treatment.
Speaker 2: Morjhanni was taken to a hospital in two thousand and six,
Speaker 2: where she laid in a coma for thirty hours. This
Speaker 2: might be the one. This might be the one that
Speaker 2: we were talking about. Oh, I'm so happy. Okay, maybe
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. So anyway, She's Indian from Singapore. Her
Speaker 2: family moved to Sri Lanka, and when she was two
Speaker 2: years old, the family moved to Hong Kong, where she
Speaker 2: and her older brother, Anup, grew up. Morjanni and her
Speaker 2: brother studied British schools. Okay, let's get to the act experience. So,
Speaker 2: in two thousand and two, while living and working in
Speaker 2: Hong Kong, Morjanni was diagnosed with lymphoma after finding a
Speaker 2: lump on her neck. Initially, Morjanni rejected conventional medicine. I mean,
Speaker 2: I feel like that's pretty you know, regular within that culture, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, turumeric will fix everything, according to some people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it is. It is a miracle thing.
Speaker 2: But I don't know if it's that much of a miracle.
Speaker 2: Let's see. So she rejected the conventional medicine. She had
Speaker 2: watched several people close to her die of cancer, including
Speaker 2: her brother in law and her best friend. Despite extensive
Speaker 2: conventional treatments over the months that ensued, Morjohnny Experience experimented
Speaker 2: with various alternative healing practices to no avail. She subsequently
Speaker 2: underwent several conventional cancer treatments. However, by that point, despite
Speaker 2: beginning these treatments as as as she was brought into
Speaker 2: the hospital, her doctors informed her in her family that
Speaker 2: it was too late to save her life. The lymphoma
Speaker 2: had spread throughout her body and had metastasized. At that point,
Speaker 2: all of Morjohnny's organs had shut down and she entered
Speaker 2: into a coma. Marjohnny came out of the coma thirty
Speaker 2: hours later. During those thirty hours, more Johnny asserts that
Speaker 2: she experience experienced many characteristic details of a near death experience.
Speaker 2: Her account includes an out of body experiment experience with
Speaker 2: observations and awareness of physical surroundings. Morjanni said that she
Speaker 2: had a strong reluctance to return to her suffering and
Speaker 2: dying physical body, but was encouraged to return by her
Speaker 2: father and her best friend, who told her that she
Speaker 2: needed to return and live her life fearlessly subsequent Those
Speaker 2: are the people that had died subsequent to coming out
Speaker 2: of her coma. Morjohnnie's tumor shrank by about seventy percent
Speaker 2: within four days, and within five weeks she was cancer free.
Speaker 2: In release from the hospital, although she had spent a
Speaker 2: few months in physiotherapy to regain her strength and the
Speaker 2: use of all of her muscles and limbs, and Morjanni
Speaker 2: remains cancer free to this day. So interesting, it says.
Speaker 2: Murjohnny submitted the description of the of her nde and
Speaker 2: subsequent healing to the Near Death Experience Research Foundation website
Speaker 2: which I talked about, a site owned and run by
Speaker 2: oncologist Jeffrey Long and his wife, Jodi Long, a family
Speaker 2: law attorney. Borjhanni's story came to the attention of American
Speaker 2: self help author Wayne Dyer, who contacted his publishers hay House,
Speaker 2: asking them to locate her and suggest that she wrote
Speaker 2: a book which they would publish. So she wrote the book,
Speaker 2: and oh she went on Fox and Friends, Anderson Cooper,
Speaker 2: National Geographic, and many others. And then she wrote a
Speaker 2: book that sold millions worldwide, has been published in forty languages.
Speaker 2: Good for her, for her. In the years following, she
Speaker 2: wrote three additional books. Okay, so all right, it says.
Speaker 2: A medical explanation of recovery from cancer, it says. According
Speaker 2: to one article, oncologist chematologist T. K. Chan, who treated
Speaker 2: more Johnny at the critical stage of her illness, ascribed
Speaker 2: her recovering to the draining of her lungs carried out
Speaker 2: by medical specialists after she had been admitted to hospital,
Speaker 2: followed by chemotherapy, which she had refused for four years.
Speaker 2: Chan stated with lymphoma, it's never too late, and Hodgkins's
Speaker 2: disease is quite curable. It can have a dramatic response
Speaker 2: to chemotherapy. On the same article, on cologist Peter Coe,
Speaker 2: who arranged to see more Johnny and all of her
Speaker 2: medical records on a visit in November of two thousand
Speaker 2: and six, declared that chemotherapy could not have could not
Speaker 2: declared that chemotherapy could not have occasioned such a dramatic recovery,
Speaker 2: and all that it could have been highly toxic. Considering
Speaker 2: the state of her failing organs, Co stated either her
Speaker 2: mind or body was able to send a message to
Speaker 2: the cancer cells to turn off the mutated genes, and
Speaker 2: chemotherapy does work well with Hodgkins, but I've never seen
Speaker 2: it work like this.
Speaker 3: I mean, it makes sense also in another regard, right,
Speaker 3: So a tumor needs a living host to feed off of,
Speaker 3: and if the host is no longer living, the cancer
Speaker 3: starts to die. So I could also see that being
Speaker 3: a part of it too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's it's crazy, the miraculous healing that
Speaker 2: people have after these experiences. Either it's miraculous healing. They
Speaker 2: have a new profound sense of life and purpose and
Speaker 2: everything that comes from it. Their their relationships with everybody
Speaker 2: surrounding them is entirely changed for the better. Their view
Speaker 2: of life is dramatically changed, and they're they living, they're
Speaker 2: living different ways. And I mean, look, if it's just
Speaker 2: an illusion, fucking that's a great illusion to have, you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: So and I only go into like what she saw
Speaker 3: on the other side or anything.
Speaker 2: That was a Wikipedia article, and they're terrible at describing shit.
Speaker 2: I'm sure I could find something, but she did get
Speaker 2: with Oh, what's the Indian guy? I can't remember what
Speaker 2: his name is. No, no, sad Guru, it's another guy. Anyway,
Speaker 2: I read one of his books, like Deepak Chopra. There
Speaker 2: we go. Yeah, so must have been pretty good. So
Speaker 2: this is the last article we'll get into. It says
Speaker 2: is a near death experience like a DMT trip. One neurosurgent,
Speaker 2: one neurosurgeon experienced both. WHOA I actually talked to somebody
Speaker 2: who has experienced both, and he goes, Dude, same exact thing,
Speaker 2: same exact fucking thing.
Speaker 3: Same, same dog.
Speaker 2: Same Now I don't know what this. I think that
Speaker 2: this is going to agree and also disagree, all right,
Speaker 2: but at least from one of my people who I
Speaker 2: know shout out to optimistic banks said that he had
Speaker 2: a near death experience and he's done DMT and he
Speaker 2: goes fucking no difference, So wow, which I felt compelling
Speaker 2: having never had a near death experience, but it tried DMT,
Speaker 2: and I felt like it was I don't know how
Speaker 2: you go farther than that, You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: That's that was my experience. I was like, what more
Speaker 2: could there be than that?
Speaker 3: But that also kind of leads more credence to the
Speaker 3: theory that it's your brain firing off the last bit
Speaker 3: of chemicals. It has to say that it's the same
Speaker 3: as a DMT trip. That kind of scientifically any way,
Speaker 3: that makes sense, But then that kind of takes away
Speaker 3: the spirituality aspect of it.
Speaker 2: I actually disagree. I think that our bodies are meant
Speaker 2: to react to certain things in very specific ways.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: For example, you know, we do have naturally secreting body
Speaker 2: throughout our lungs, throughout our pineo glens. Some people say
Speaker 2: even throughout our spine depending on various you know sources,
Speaker 2: And I actually think that I'm I'm less entertained by
Speaker 2: the mechanism of how it happens as opposed to why
Speaker 2: it happens.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's it's the same conversation. And say that
Speaker 3: serotonin and dopamine can be released by petting a dog,
Speaker 3: that doesn't mean that petting a dog is a spiritual experience.
Speaker 3: It's a chemical thing that's like within our genetics in
Speaker 3: our DNA to release whenever we pet a dog actually
Speaker 3: is the same thing.
Speaker 2: I disagree with that. I think that everything. I think
Speaker 2: that everything in life can be a spiritual experience.
Speaker 3: I mean, sure, taking a shit can be a spiritual experience,
Speaker 3: but I mean that doesn't mean that it has to be.
Speaker 2: I mean I think that it's up to the individual
Speaker 2: to interpret what's spiritual and what's not.
Speaker 3: That's fair, sure, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean I've had boring ass sex and then I've
Speaker 2: had fucking spiritual sex. You know what I'm saying. Sometimes
Speaker 2: it just be like that.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, to your point, it's that's relative to
Speaker 3: the individual. I get that, But okay, fair enough.
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, I'm not even trying to get sexual.
Speaker 2: But like pizza. Know, like there are some pizzas that
Speaker 2: you're like, oh my god, I wouldn't feed the shit
Speaker 2: to my dog, right, And then there's other pizza where
Speaker 2: you like, fucking, oh my god, what angel in heaven
Speaker 2: created this?
Speaker 3: Right? Right? I get that.
Speaker 2: I go about cow zones. I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's it's no, not calzones, dude, pizza. Come on now,
Speaker 3: let's be normal.
Speaker 2: Hold up, I'm gonna make you a caw zone one day.
Speaker 2: It's gonna fucking it's gonna really tickle your pickle.
Speaker 3: And I'm not anti Calzone. I'm just more pro pizza
Speaker 3: than I am cal Zone. You haven't tried my calzone,
Speaker 3: that's fair. I have not.
Speaker 2: And I'm not talking about the Adam Sandler Jennifer Aniston
Speaker 2: style fucking child sacrifice pizza. Okay, for all the pizza
Speaker 2: gate people out there, talking about actual ingredients that are
Speaker 2: in your fridge that are not chopped up from children's bodies.
Speaker 3: Okay, so let's just get that clear. We're on a
Speaker 3: conspiracy podcast for Fox's sake. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2: So anyway, this is from Big Thing. I actually really
Speaker 2: like this website. It's the one one neurosurgeon who experienced
Speaker 2: DMT and near death experience, so it says doctor Eban Alexander,
Speaker 2: a neurosurgeon, underwent a near death experience while in a
Speaker 2: coma and subsequently went on a psychedelic trip after taking
Speaker 2: a powerful variant of DMT. So it did both internally
Speaker 2: produced DMT as widely theorized to cause the near death experience.
Speaker 2: So Alexander's dual experiences could provide some intriguing, albeit anecdotal insights.
Speaker 2: Both d MT and and near death experience evoke feelings
Speaker 2: of transcending time and space and glimpsing the multiverse, while
Speaker 2: at the same time eliciting a sense of unity and love.
Speaker 2: But there were also profound differences, he says. So in
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, doctor even Alexander contracted a rare
Speaker 2: case of bacterial meningitis. As the pathogen wrecked or racked
Speaker 2: his brain, causing it to well and suffused with pus,
Speaker 2: Alexander entered a deep, deep coma he was not expected
Speaker 2: to survive, but live he did, and with a tale
Speaker 2: to tell. For in Alexander's stricken state, he underwent a
Speaker 2: near death experience, a profound out of body event. Four
Speaker 2: years later, the neurosurgeon detailed it in a best selling book.
Speaker 2: I had no real center of consciousness, he wrote. I
Speaker 2: didn't know who or what I was, or even if
Speaker 2: I was. I was simply there, a singular awareness in
Speaker 2: the midst of a soupy, dark, muddy nothingness.
Speaker 3: Sounds like a DNT trip I do.
Speaker 2: More recently, Alexander's popular account of his near death experience
Speaker 2: attracted the attention of Pascal Michael, a PhD student in
Speaker 2: psychology at the University of Greenwich Greenwood.
Speaker 3: Would you say Greenwich, I think that's pronounced Greenwich that
Speaker 3: I don't know. You know, it's like the King's English
Speaker 3: versus American English.
Speaker 2: We say Greenway because that's what it fucking looks like.
Speaker 2: But anyway, Alexander, Michael.
Speaker 3: Say Sandwich or Sandwich or Sanwich. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Sandwich. Yeah, that's where I go.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Michael met Alexander after seeing him speak at an academic
Speaker 2: conference and was informed that Alexander had experimented with five
Speaker 2: me e O d MT. Oh. Interesting, that's like four
Speaker 2: ACO and five me O I believe are very similar.
Speaker 2: A psychedelic closely related to d MT secreted from the
Speaker 2: glands of the Colorado River toad. Oh that's buffo.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, all.
Speaker 2: Right, so nd E versus d MT. As Michael's current
Speaker 2: academic focus is on comparing the psychedelic experience with the
Speaker 2: near death experience, he was intrigued. It's widely theorized that
Speaker 2: the psychedelic drug n N d mt UH more commonly
Speaker 2: known as d MT could cause the near death experience
Speaker 2: since the brain might be flooded with with it as
Speaker 2: we approach the moment of death. DMD, after all, is
Speaker 2: produced in the body and is present in cerebo's spinal
Speaker 2: fluid in small amounts. Oh how about that confirmed? I
Speaker 2: like it. Michael responded that having undergone both a near
Speaker 2: death experience and a DMT psychedelic trip a rare coincidence,
Speaker 2: Alexander could provide a fascinating anecdotal comparison of the two events.
Speaker 2: Michael interviewed Alexander in November of twenty nineteen and subsequently
Speaker 2: wrote a scientific paper on what he gleaned from him.
Speaker 2: The article was published in the journal Frontiers in Psychology.
Speaker 2: In the interview, Michael asked Alexander to deeply describe both
Speaker 2: experiences per Alexander's recollections both evoked feelings of transcending time
Speaker 2: and space and glimpsing the multiverse, while at the same
Speaker 2: time eliciting a sense of unity with the surroundings, as
Speaker 2: well as a profound, almost divine love for everything and
Speaker 2: every one. The most vital similarity between Alexander's near death
Speaker 2: experience and his five DMT trip was, in quotes ego death,
Speaker 2: the dissolution of his sense of a sense of self.
Speaker 2: The annihilation in quotes, the annihilation, though temporary, of the
Speaker 2: sense of one's individuated self and all of its concomitant
Speaker 2: autobiographal and all of its autobiographal memories, often gives rise
Speaker 2: to an experience of being a cosmic being. Michael explained
Speaker 2: this he noted is key to the psychedelic induced mystical
Speaker 2: experience and any potential benefits extracted from it. Mike Alexander
Speaker 2: also described many differences between the two events, avowing that
Speaker 2: during his near death experience he came across both menacing
Speaker 2: and divine beings and even briefly ventured to another world
Speaker 2: at one point. He also passed through an abyssal emptiness
Speaker 2: and yet suffused with nurturing light and came upon a
Speaker 2: quote unquote threshold which a feminine entity prevented him from crossing.
Speaker 2: Due to these dissimilarities and the fact that, at least
Speaker 2: for him, the near death experience vastly surpassed that of
Speaker 2: the psychedelic Okay, so he's saying that the NDE was
Speaker 2: like way crazier than DMT. Okay, I can't imagine. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: Alexander does not ascribe to the theory that DMT causes
Speaker 2: near death experiences, preferring a transcendental explanation that he briefly
Speaker 2: glimpsed some form of afterlife, the five meo or the
Speaker 2: Buffo toad. Uh, the five neo was like looking through
Speaker 2: a little peopole as opposed to being full bore swimming
Speaker 2: and being immersed in the Pacific Ocean, of being completely
Speaker 2: into that oneness experience of the NDE. So a key
Speaker 2: hole versus the Holdham thing.
Speaker 3: Interesting.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 3: So now we've just heard we were talking about this.
Speaker 3: There's so many people that say it's the same, same
Speaker 3: type of comparison. He is saying, it's not even close.
Speaker 2: It's similar, but not close. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: So Michael notes, however, that all the contrasting moments and
Speaker 2: Alexander's near death experience are broadly characteristic of DMT psychedelic trips.
Speaker 2: So Alexander's episode, by no means disproves the broader theory
Speaker 2: that NDEs could be caused by the bodies internally produced
Speaker 2: psychedelic compounds, nor does it confirm it. Well, pretty freaking cool, dude,
Speaker 2: I mean, what do you think about all this?
Speaker 3: I'm still kind of on the fence with it, even
Speaker 3: after reading all of these things. I'm I'm not negating
Speaker 3: that indies might actually be a person peering into the
Speaker 3: other side, right, one hundred percent. But then, as I'm
Speaker 3: hearing these still kind of where I was in the beginning.
Speaker 3: Some of them can be chalked up to the brain
Speaker 3: having lack of oxygen. It could be chalked up to
Speaker 3: the brain firing off whatever chemicals are still left, you know,
Speaker 3: on standby before it dies. It's the same way that
Speaker 3: you know your body expels everything as you're dying. But
Speaker 3: that doesn't, like I said earlier, that does not neatly
Speaker 3: tie all loose ends together when you're looking at the
Speaker 3: vast amounts of indie stories that are out there, right,
Speaker 3: So I'm still kind of on the fence with it.
Speaker 3: To be honest with.
Speaker 2: You, Well, what is true is that you know the
Speaker 2: experiences are real. No matter what context you want to
Speaker 2: put it in, the experiences are real. The effects of
Speaker 2: set of said experience are definitely real. And I mean,
Speaker 2: I hope that I never have to experience a near
Speaker 2: death experience because it sounds brutal. I don't want to
Speaker 2: get run over by a fucking train, you know. I
Speaker 2: don't want to. I don't want to have some kind
Speaker 2: of brain issue or heart issue that would cause me
Speaker 2: to slip into that. However, if I do give you
Speaker 2: that NDE all.
Speaker 3: Day, baby, I would I would much rather just die.
Speaker 3: That's just me. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, that's what most people say. They're pissed and they
Speaker 2: got to come back. That's what Jeremy Renner said.
Speaker 3: He was like, fuck if I'm if I'm already there,
Speaker 3: let me just continue the journey. I'm good. I've I've
Speaker 3: made my peace with this life, and I have tried
Speaker 3: my hardest to not cling to this life too quickly
Speaker 3: because they could be ripped out from under you to like, tonight,
Speaker 3: as I go to sleep, there may be a blood
Speaker 3: clot that I know nothing about because I've never done
Speaker 3: a scan for one that might dislodge itself. Go to
Speaker 3: my brain and tie to I don't wake up tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3: Like that's a reality, and that's a reality for everybody.
Speaker 3: You never know what tomorrow will bring.
Speaker 2: You will not.
Speaker 3: You don't know if you're gonna see tomorrow. So live
Speaker 3: this moment like it is your last. Live today as
Speaker 3: if it's your last day on earth. And then when
Speaker 3: the time comes, go, you know, die gracefully, sing your
Speaker 3: death song like a warrior going home.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know what, Jacob, I am older than you,
Speaker 2: so the likeliness that I die before you is probably
Speaker 2: higher than you dying before me.
Speaker 3: I mean, you live a lower risk life than I do.
Speaker 3: And I'm not saying that to shit on you. I'm
Speaker 3: saying that in a.
Speaker 2: Very positive Nowadays I do. Yeah, yeah, you're still doing
Speaker 2: the night fighting all your crazy shit.
Speaker 3: So, like, I hope to get a motorcycle here in
Speaker 3: the next six months or so, or at least in
Speaker 3: the next year, like me too.
Speaker 2: I was actually thinking, since I'm gonna be moving out
Speaker 2: to Arizona here in like five weeks now, Oh dude,
Speaker 2: I think I might have to get me a fucking hog, dude.
Speaker 3: I think you need one. I think you do.
Speaker 2: I think it's probably about that time, dude, to be
Speaker 2: out there with the mountains and the water and yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean just open desert.
Speaker 3: You know, the desert is the spot for bikes. Man.
Speaker 3: Ah one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I might have to get me a little one.
Speaker 2: Nothing crazy. I'm not trying to get no fat boy
Speaker 2: or anything like that, but I mean, you know, a
Speaker 2: starter bike. It depends on the style.
Speaker 3: If you're getting a sports bike, no, yeah, I get
Speaker 3: like six hundred or something like that. If it's if
Speaker 3: it's a cruiser style, I would suggest start with a
Speaker 3: one thousand, because even though it might be seen as
Speaker 3: a quote unquote bigger bike, it doesn't have the same
Speaker 3: amount of torque as a sports bike, and anything less
Speaker 3: than that you're gonna be bored of in six months. Well,
Speaker 3: unless it's like a little cafe racer or something. They
Speaker 3: got small motors, but they're quick and they're light and
Speaker 3: they're small, so it's it's like a weird blend between
Speaker 3: like a crowd rocket and a cruiser. But we'll talk
Speaker 3: more about that when the time comes. And you get
Speaker 3: some money put aside to buy one. But yeah, I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm it's definitely gonna be used if I get one.
Speaker 3: I'm not getting nothing brand new. I would love to
Speaker 3: get a brand new bike, but there's no way. My
Speaker 3: dream ideal like brand new bike would be like a
Speaker 3: Indian chieftain and bitches are so sick, but oh I
Speaker 3: love them, I love them so much. I'm happy that
Speaker 3: Polaris bought out the Indian name brand and they've revived
Speaker 3: it because it's been ever since World War Two. It's
Speaker 3: like the company's gone down, up and down and up,
Speaker 3: and you'll get companies try to like put some juice
Speaker 3: back into that and then they crash out. Polaris ain't
Speaker 3: going nowhere. So the Indian has been doing really well.
Speaker 2: But plays makes the best four wheelers too, for sure.
Speaker 3: Agreed, agreed, But yeah, no, I'm yeah, it'll probably be
Speaker 3: a used bike when I get one, let's be real.
Speaker 3: But yeah, but yeah, I mean the reality is I'll
Speaker 3: probably die before you. I hope.
Speaker 2: So what do you mean you hope?
Speaker 3: So I mean I'm I hope that like I can. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I guess that sounded depressing as fuck out. Well, it's
Speaker 3: sad you have a good life. Oh no, No, I'm
Speaker 3: not depressed by any means. And I'm not like I'm
Speaker 3: praying for death or anything. But I'm just like, I
Speaker 3: am excited to die. Like, let's not get that twisted either,
Speaker 3: I think. So, Yeah, I'm completing my race.
Speaker 2: I mean, I thought I wouldn't say that I'm looking
Speaker 2: forward to it, but I will happily accept it when
Speaker 2: it when it occurs.
Speaker 3: I am looking forward to it, but I'm also not
Speaker 3: got a rush. Yeah, I'm not in a rush to
Speaker 3: get there, but like super stoked when the time comes,
Speaker 3: for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I did have some more notes here that we
Speaker 2: can go over. It's up to you. It's uh, just
Speaker 2: you know, because I've never had a near death experience
Speaker 2: and i've and we read that article. But then I
Speaker 2: also heard my buddy, you know, talking about NDEs and
Speaker 2: you know, psychedelic experiences, and I wanted to pull up
Speaker 2: some notes here that I had that were kind of
Speaker 2: comparing them. That will also split the difference as well.
Speaker 2: So it says there are strong similarities between NDEs and
Speaker 2: DMD induced ego deaths, and many researchers, mystics and psychonauts
Speaker 2: believe that they may be tapping into the same underlying
Speaker 2: mechanism of consciousness. So there are core similarities. So there
Speaker 2: is ego dissolution and loss of self. So in an NDE,
Speaker 2: in a near death experience, people report leaving their body
Speaker 2: no longer identifying with it, and experiencing themselves as pure awareness.
Speaker 2: The sense of I often dissolves into something vast, so
Speaker 2: that's an NDE. As far as the DMT ego death,
Speaker 2: it says the self shatters, dissolves, and merges with an
Speaker 2: infinite field of consciousness. The usual quote unquote story of
Speaker 2: me disappears, replaced by timeless awareness. So that similar. And
Speaker 2: then there is the to and light phenomena.
Speaker 3: Yeah, an NDE.
Speaker 2: It's as a common motif is moving through a through
Speaker 2: a tunnel toward an overwhelming light, often described as pure
Speaker 2: love or divine presence. That's an NDE. DMT it's as
Speaker 2: many report tunnels, vortexes, or hyperspace passages into a realm
Speaker 2: of brilliant light and geometry. The light can feel like
Speaker 2: God or source itself.
Speaker 3: I will say that that is such a cliche at
Speaker 3: this point the whole don't go into the light the
Speaker 3: whole INDE thing about people seeing a tunnel with the
Speaker 3: light of the end of it. That's so prevalent that
Speaker 3: that has even become a thing in movies that we
Speaker 3: hear it out right, Like it's that seems to be
Speaker 3: a very common thread with indes.
Speaker 2: Checks out though. I mean, if you get so many
Speaker 2: people saying that same thing.
Speaker 3: But you also, with your DMT experience and you've done
Speaker 3: for ACO and you've done pure and all this, did
Speaker 3: you see a tunnel with a light? Now, I know
Speaker 3: you saw lights and patterns and you know the geometrics
Speaker 3: shit like that, but did you see a tunnel or
Speaker 3: something even close to it? I don't remember you ever
Speaker 3: saying that you did.
Speaker 2: No, I didn't see a tunnel by any means, although
Speaker 2: on DMT you do feel like you're being blasted through
Speaker 2: a tunnel until you get to your destination. Okay, it's
Speaker 2: like it like how they were just saying, like hyperspace
Speaker 2: like fucking zoom all the way there, like it is,
Speaker 2: you're a fucking strip to a rocket going like a
Speaker 2: million miles an hour.
Speaker 3: So I know that, like Lemon, rockets are a thing
Speaker 3: when you're taking DMT, like four Aco and things like
Speaker 3: that and mushrooms and whatever. Is that a thing when
Speaker 3: you smoke pure DMT, you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 3: you take you like a shot of lemon juice or something,
Speaker 3: then smoke DMT, does that like double down the blast
Speaker 3: off like it does with like four ACO or with mushrooms.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, for four eight there's no
Speaker 2: blast off with mushrooms and four eco.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, well it is apparently allegedly if you take
Speaker 3: some citrus with it, it does. I don't know that
Speaker 3: for a fact, but that seems to be what people say.
Speaker 2: So in my experience, because I have done mushrooms for
Speaker 2: ACO and DMT, DMT is the most like it's the
Speaker 2: most That's just the best way I can put it.
Speaker 2: Is the most psychedelic thing you could ever do. There's
Speaker 2: nothing more powerful than that. And they do say that
Speaker 2: it's the world's most powerful and potent psychedelic drug there
Speaker 2: is is DMT. That being said, I prefer for ACO.
Speaker 2: I still have a grasp on fucking reality. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's an overlaid reality. So it's like this reality plus
Speaker 2: the trippy reality laid on top of each other. But
Speaker 2: at least I'm still here. You know what I'm saying, DMT,
Speaker 2: you don't fucking exist anymore, bro, Like you are not
Speaker 2: you anymore. Like it's it's more than whenever you go
Speaker 2: to sleep and you have a dream, like you know,
Speaker 2: you feel a little dissociated or whatever. Right, it's it's
Speaker 2: that times I thought, like you, I'm a time god, honestly,
Speaker 2: like it is. I hope that you experience it one day,
Speaker 2: maybe one day. I just think that that would I
Speaker 2: would love to hear how you experience it, specifically you, hmmm,
Speaker 2: Like I want to hear your experience, I think more
Speaker 2: than anybody else on the on on the planet, Like
Speaker 2: I would mean, I would rather hear your experience than
Speaker 2: my parents. I would rather hear yours than I can't
Speaker 2: even think of anybody who would rather hear about than yours.
Speaker 3: I feel like you would be underwhelmed with my response.
Speaker 2: I doubt it. I feel like I feel like you
Speaker 2: think you're going to be underwhelmed.
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, I know I get that, like I
Speaker 3: will be blown away, Like I get that, but how
Speaker 3: my brain computes it makes sense of it all. I
Speaker 3: feel like it's going to be like underwhelming for you.
Speaker 3: I could be wrong. Who knows, maybe one of these
Speaker 3: days will do it. Bro.
Speaker 2: I think that yeah, you I know how you would
Speaker 2: look at it and you be like, oh yeah, it
Speaker 2: was crazy, you know but whatever. You know, like like
Speaker 2: kind of how you know what I mean, Like you
Speaker 2: had your whole mushroom experience. You saw fucking gears and
Speaker 2: you saw how everything was really flowing with life, and
Speaker 2: you're like, man, that was a thing. Whatever.
Speaker 3: It just made sense, Like it didn't like blow my
Speaker 3: mind and make me like rethink how I'm living life
Speaker 3: and like, oh my god. It was just kind of
Speaker 3: like huh, so that's how that works. It. All of
Speaker 3: the things have to work together, the good and the bad.
Speaker 3: If one thing's out of place, it all falls apart.
Speaker 3: Got you, Okay? It was like all right, but it
Speaker 3: was it wasn't like an earth shattering experience, right.
Speaker 2: I would hope that you would have like a crazy
Speaker 2: spiritual experience.
Speaker 3: M you know, maybe one of these days we'll find
Speaker 3: out together, bro.
Speaker 2: I mean, and I'm not gonna lie. After I did
Speaker 2: that DMT trip, I we got it recorded, I said
Speaker 2: that I wouldn't want fucking even Hitler to have to
Speaker 2: experience what I experienced, like that's how dramatic and how like, yeah, dude,
Speaker 2: it fucking it put me into a depression for like
Speaker 2: two or three months, Like, no.
Speaker 3: I remember it was that. That's what I'm saying. Man,
Speaker 3: I don't I don't like want to jump on board that.
Speaker 2: Oh dude, But I'm so much fucking better now as
Speaker 2: a result of it, like not even shitting' you. Like
Speaker 2: the way I look at this fucking reality as we exist.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I do, I really don't take shit serious
Speaker 2: and because of that, but I get it. It's not
Speaker 2: that I look at it like it's a joke. It's
Speaker 2: just that they know that. I know even more now
Speaker 2: that it's like it's so temporary that don't even sweat
Speaker 2: the small shit. It's so incredibly temporary.
Speaker 3: That's yeah, I agree one hundred percent. Bro. As the
Speaker 3: Bible says, this too shall pass.
Speaker 2: It do so anyway they there is the tunnel and
Speaker 2: light phenomena. Then there's also encounters with beings under both instances,
Speaker 2: so a near death experience, it says uh. Under a
Speaker 2: near death experience, contact with deceased relatives, guides, angels, or
Speaker 2: divine presences who communicate telepathically, and then with d MT,
Speaker 2: there's contact with quote unquote entities, whether they be machine elves, teachers, gods, ancestors.
Speaker 2: Communication is direct, beyond words, often deeply symbolic. Pretty similar there,
Speaker 2: I mean, no machine eels in an NDE. But then
Speaker 2: there's the life review and revelation. So a near death experience,
Speaker 2: it says, some undergo a panoramic life review, feeling their
Speaker 2: actions impact on others with total empathy. You hear that
Speaker 2: a lot yew DMT, it says, while not always a review,
Speaker 2: users report being shown profound truths about their lives, karmic patterns,
Speaker 2: or humanity's collective story. So different in that aspect. I
Speaker 2: don't know if I ever heard of a life review
Speaker 2: on DMT, but definitely hear about them a lot on
Speaker 2: near death experiences.
Speaker 3: No, that's a good point. I don't think I've ever
Speaker 3: heard someone take DMT and like have a replaying of
Speaker 3: their life by.
Speaker 2: Any means, right, right, But it happens all the fucking
Speaker 2: time in ndies. Yeah. Then there's timelessness and unity. So
Speaker 2: in NDEs time stops. The person often feels eternal, outside
Speaker 2: of space and time and merging with what they say.
Speaker 2: The all d MT it says time collapses or becomes meaningless.
Speaker 2: Some describe experiencing eternity in minutes with a deep sense
Speaker 2: of unity with existence. Interesting, damn, that makes me think
Speaker 2: a little bit.
Speaker 3: Uh, tell me, tell me what does it make you
Speaker 3: think of?
Speaker 2: Well, just whenever I had that fucking bad DMT trip,
Speaker 2: like it made me like, you know, I was in
Speaker 2: the void and it, dude, it put me into a
Speaker 2: fucking depression so far, like for months after it, Like
Speaker 2: I said, but you know, and I felt like I
Speaker 2: I felt like nothing existed, including me, you know, and
Speaker 2: I felt like literally I killed everything and it was
Speaker 2: all my fault and everything right. But then as I
Speaker 2: you know, meditated on it and recollected exactly what I
Speaker 2: saw and what I felt and everything, I came to
Speaker 2: feel like a crazy comfort in knowing that even even
Speaker 2: in the void, I was still able to perceive my
Speaker 2: own awareness, which is crazy because if it was the void,
Speaker 2: nothing would exist. So if nothing existed, I wouldn't exist.
Speaker 2: But I did. I was there, I witnessed it, so
Speaker 2: that to me, that to me signals that even when
Speaker 2: nothing exists, we still do in some way. And I
Speaker 2: don't know how else to describe that but that's brought
Speaker 2: me a lot of peace actually thinking that good things.
Speaker 2: It says, there's transformation afterward. NDEs survivors often lose fear
Speaker 2: of death, develop heightened spirituality, and change priority in life.
Speaker 2: In DMT, many return with a radically shifted worldview, often
Speaker 2: more spiritual, compassionate, and less materialistic. Same kinds of transformations afterward.
Speaker 2: Possible explanations, It says, there's the biochemical explanation that both
Speaker 2: may involve DMT release in the brain. The pineal gland
Speaker 2: and dying neurons may flood the brain with DMT during
Speaker 2: extreme trauma or death states. Then there's the oxygen deprivation,
Speaker 2: which is hypoxia. Can also create tunnel vision, bright lights
Speaker 2: and vivid haint hallucinations. That's the biochemical explanation, yeah, which
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that that's not happening. I'm just saying
Speaker 2: that I think that maybe that's not all that's happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Then explanation number two, which is neurological, So both experiences
Speaker 2: correlate with surges of high frequency brain activity such as
Speaker 2: gamma waves just before or after clinical death, similar to
Speaker 2: what's seen and psychedelics. Interesting Okay, yeah, you always hear
Speaker 2: about the gamma. Shit, which gamma? So I've talked about
Speaker 2: like the different states of your fucking mind or whatever.
Speaker 2: You got beta, alpha, theta, and then usually delta is
Speaker 2: right after that, but some people include gamma, which is
Speaker 2: an even deeper meditative state, even deeper than theta. So
Speaker 2: theta is right before you fall asleep or as soon
Speaker 2: as you wake up. Right, this is suggesting. So there
Speaker 2: are people that go beyond that, which is gamma. Right,
Speaker 2: Think about like a fucking yogi that's meditating for a week.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, Like that guy is gonna
Speaker 2: be way deeper than somebody who's about who's about to
Speaker 2: fall asleep, right, makes sense? Right, And so that's what
Speaker 2: they say, is that on psychedelics and in near death
Speaker 2: cases where they are being monitored, gamma waves are happening.
Speaker 2: So it's almost as if your brain is emulating that
Speaker 2: you are in such a super fucking yoga deep meditation
Speaker 2: that it's allowing you to see this kind of stuff neurologically.
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean I see that. It's like whim Hoff, right,
Speaker 3: he does breathing techniques and meditation to give himself a
Speaker 3: d MT trip.
Speaker 2: Yeah, same thing. And then there is the metaphysical one.
Speaker 2: And I don't think that these are even separate. I
Speaker 2: think that they could all be happening. So the biochemical,
Speaker 2: the neurological, and the metaphysical. So the metaphysical explanation is
Speaker 2: that some propose that some propose both are gateways to
Speaker 2: non ordinary realms of consciousness. Both as in DMT and
Speaker 2: NDEs are their gates to non ordinary realms of consciousness,
Speaker 2: not hallucinations, but glimpses into other dimensions or the afterlife.
Speaker 2: That's the thing, that's what I wanted to bring up earlier,
Speaker 2: as far as the NN DMT studies is not an NDMT.
Speaker 2: The DMT studies that were ever in London, they said
Speaker 2: that they were able to prove without a shadow of
Speaker 2: a doubt that this reality that we experience in waking
Speaker 2: life is more of a hallucination than what you experience
Speaker 2: on psychedelics or in an ear death experience. And their
Speaker 2: explanation behind that is that our brain and our eyes
Speaker 2: and our mind, and you know, we take in fucking
Speaker 2: sixty thousand thoughts a day, and you know, all this
Speaker 2: information is constant. I think they said that we take
Speaker 2: in like seven thousand. I don't know if it's fucking
Speaker 2: gigabytes or whatever. I think seven thousand gigabytes of parabytes. Well,
Speaker 2: seven thousand gigabytes of information per second is what our
Speaker 2: brain has to process, right, do you know how many
Speaker 2: we actually are aware of? It's fifty out of seven thousand. Wow,
Speaker 2: so seven and no, that's right. It wasn't seven thousand
Speaker 2: gigabytes or whatever. It was seven thousand. Things Like, your
Speaker 2: brain is taking seven thous bits of information and it's
Speaker 2: fucking breaking it down into fifty, right, Whereas whenever you're
Speaker 2: on DMT or any other psychedelic or you're going through
Speaker 2: a near death experience, that broadens to over a thousand,
Speaker 2: which is why so many people say it's more real
Speaker 2: than anything I've ever seen, because their brain is not
Speaker 2: filtering out it is. You are getting the raw data. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so the brain almost look at the brain like it's
Speaker 2: a fucking it's a filter in waking reality. And whenever
Speaker 2: you're on DMT or you're going through a near death experience,
Speaker 2: that filter is fucking off, that veil is gone. So
Speaker 2: what they have surmised is that whenever you're you know,
Speaker 2: under one of those circumstances that that's not the hallucination,
Speaker 2: that waking reality is more of a hallucination than even
Speaker 2: that because there is no filter, and our filter is
Speaker 2: would be which is it's an interesting way of looking
Speaker 2: at it, because you would you would expect like, all right, well,
Speaker 2: hallucination is just something that your mind is making up
Speaker 2: that's not really there, right, whereas they're looking at it
Speaker 2: from the opposite end saying that actually, a hallucination is
Speaker 2: something that is happening, but your brain is fucking making
Speaker 2: the amount of information smaller to be able to process it.
Speaker 2: That's the hallucination itself. So it's like looking at it
Speaker 2: from different ends of the spectrum, which I think is
Speaker 2: pretty cool. Okay, wow, it says in this view, DMT
Speaker 2: is not creating illusions, but opening the filter of the
Speaker 2: brain to wider reality, just as dying removes the filter altogether.
Speaker 2: So very similar in those aspects. The key differences are
Speaker 2: control and duration. NDEs happen spontaneously, usually lasting longer, though
Speaker 2: they may feel like they're outside of time DMT, So
Speaker 2: that was NDEs. DMT ego death is chemically induced, short
Speaker 2: lived within minutes, though equally intense there's the content consistency,
Speaker 2: so NDEs often have recurring light tunnel and life review archetypes,
Speaker 2: where d MT can be more varied with wild geometry,
Speaker 2: alien like realms and be less predictable symbolism. The cultural
Speaker 2: framing would be. NDEs are often interpreted in religious slash
Speaker 2: spiritual terms, for example, meeting God, angels, Christ, et cetera.
Speaker 2: D MT users may frame it as alien contact, alien
Speaker 2: contact simulation theory, or cosmic consciousness. So they rhyme but
Speaker 2: not the same.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just like that.
Speaker 2: I like knowing that there's somewhat similar, you know, I'm
Speaker 2: I actually kind of like that they're.
Speaker 3: Not the same. I do because I mean because I
Speaker 3: want to be surprised.
Speaker 2: I want to be surprised whenever that time comes, you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, Like I wanted to be a
Speaker 2: once in a lifetime thing.
Speaker 3: I mean, to show all their similarities makes it sound
Speaker 3: like it's just a DMT trip when you die, right,
Speaker 3: But then to hear their differences, then there are some
Speaker 3: very nuanced differences here. It tells us that there's more
Speaker 3: going on here. So I mean, there's a lot to
Speaker 3: take in here.
Speaker 2: Well, I also like that they are they're similar but
Speaker 2: not the same, because whenever people are having near death experiences,
Speaker 2: they say, well, oh, it's just DMT that's firing off. Well,
Speaker 2: if it's just DMT firing off, you'd be experiencing the
Speaker 2: same exact fucking thing. There wouldn't be any differences, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: So it can't just be that.
Speaker 3: Now. I'm also wondering if that's because it's the DMT
Speaker 3: that your body made for you right now, like to
Speaker 3: the whim Hoff breathing exercises to give yourself a DMT trip.
Speaker 3: I am curious if that is more closely related to
Speaker 3: an NDE as opposed to outside DMT entering your body.
Speaker 3: Now understand, chemically it breaks down the same. I'm with
Speaker 3: that one hundred percent, but it's like, uh, how could
Speaker 3: I put this. It's it's like wearing a tuxedo that
Speaker 3: was made for somebody else that's kind of your size,
Speaker 3: and it'll still fit you well and you can still
Speaker 3: wear it to a wedding and it's all good, as
Speaker 3: opposed to wearing a custom fit tux that was tailor
Speaker 3: made for your specific body. Yes, I'm wondering if the
Speaker 3: breathing exercise and meditation release of DMT. And I'm not
Speaker 3: talking about like a euphorious sense for meditation. I mean,
Speaker 3: like a true DMT trip from these exercises. How would
Speaker 3: that differ from external DMT use, And how do both
Speaker 3: of those differ from NDE And are they different or
Speaker 3: are the similarities even more so, I'm you know, it's fascinating.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think that you can overdose on DMT.
Speaker 3: No, you can't. I mean, I guess you can go
Speaker 3: to the other side a little too far and just
Speaker 3: never really come out of it. But it's not like
Speaker 3: you're gonna die from it, bro.
Speaker 2: And you hear fucking stories about that. And to be honest,
Speaker 2: that's what's scared the fuck out of me more than
Speaker 2: anything was knowing that. Like whenever I was in the void,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I fucking just broke it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I'm done. I'm stuck here. That's that's the nightmare
Speaker 2: of it. That because it is a possibility, not like
Speaker 2: not very high odds of it happening, like it's happened
Speaker 2: only a handful of times, I believe, Like it's not
Speaker 2: something that's like one percent of all. No, it's not
Speaker 2: even that. It's like so minute, the possibility, but even still,
Speaker 2: just the just the fact that it fucking does happen
Speaker 2: scared the ever living fuck out of me.
Speaker 3: It's it's a wild, wild thing, dude, And I think
Speaker 3: maybe one day I'll experience that. But I'm also not
Speaker 3: like super excited to go do that like next week.
Speaker 3: I'm you know, we'll see it.
Speaker 2: When the time is right, it'll happen. I am planning
Speaker 2: to go trip this weekend.
Speaker 3: So word up. You are in the woods, go into
Speaker 3: the desert. What you're doing? Ummmmm? I think are actually
Speaker 3: going to a lake there you go. Yeah, so that'll
Speaker 3: be fun. We're gonna go skywatching.
Speaker 2: Ah, I try to have a little uh or experience
Speaker 2: of the fifth kind? Is it possibly close encounter off kind?
Speaker 2: There you go, maybe called out Affleaadians or something, get
Speaker 2: a little weird.
Speaker 3: I hope it goes well for you, dude.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be fun. But anyway, good cult members, let
Speaker 2: us know what you think about all this. I mean,
Speaker 2: what do you think about near death experiences? Do you
Speaker 2: think this is just a hallucination? Do you think that
Speaker 2: it's on some shit? I'm sure I could have done
Speaker 2: a lot better if I wasn't sick and congested, and
Speaker 2: I can't even fucking think and put words together right now.
Speaker 2: I tried to do my very best with it. But
Speaker 2: I think that anybody who's ever legitimately looked into near
Speaker 2: death experiences and heard somebody's stories or read somebody's stories,
Speaker 2: you don't forget it. You don't forget the feeling that
Speaker 2: you had after you read or listened to the story,
Speaker 2: because it's profound and it causes you to think, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like anybody who just listens to
Speaker 2: that and just goes, eh, that's probably not real. Like
Speaker 2: you're not giving it the credit that it deserves because
Speaker 2: it is profound shit, no matter I mean, And it's
Speaker 2: hard to compartmentalize it for a lot of people, and
Speaker 2: so maybe that's why they would, you know, rather not.
Speaker 2: And I'm not even sitting here to say that I
Speaker 2: have I have correctly compartmentalized it, because I definitely haven't.
Speaker 2: I still don't know what to do with it. I mean,
Speaker 2: does it does it prove that we go to a
Speaker 2: specific place? No, you know, does it prove that a
Speaker 2: specific religion is the right one? No? You know what
Speaker 2: I mean? Like, there's still a lot of very open
Speaker 2: ended questions. But just the fact that it has happened
Speaker 2: tens of thousands of documented times. That's just documented by
Speaker 2: the way, right, and that's just over the last what
Speaker 2: sixty years, fifty years something like that. I mean no
Speaker 2: telling how many stories like this have, you know, stretched
Speaker 2: all across humanity. Almost makes you wonder if animals happen.
Speaker 2: Do you think animals got DMT?
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean the same way they
Speaker 3: have serotonin and dopamine. Their brains produce very similar chemicals
Speaker 3: to ours, and I guess that varies animal to animal.
Speaker 3: Mammals probably have a little closer to it than like reptiles,
Speaker 3: but I mean reptiles might have a version of it.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've seen my dog like kicking and running
Speaker 2: while he's dreaming, so that must be a DMT thing.
Speaker 3: Absolutely good call members, Tell us what you think about this.
Speaker 3: Do you think NDEs are just your brain firing off?
Speaker 3: Do you think that it is just DMT? Do you
Speaker 3: think that there is something about you piercing the veil
Speaker 3: and looking on the other side of it, even for
Speaker 3: a moment, only to return back to earth and you know,
Speaker 3: restore your life to what it once was, tell us
Speaker 3: what you think about it. That is the best way
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Speaker 3: we want to hear from you. What do you think
Speaker 3: about in DESE, how does it compare to DNT, What
Speaker 3: is your personal experience with it? Do you have a
Speaker 3: family member that had an experience with it? We want
Speaker 3: to hear all about it and the best way that
Speaker 3: you could do that what be two? Please at this
Speaker 3: time hit the five starts at the shares of lif
Speaker 3: suscribes comments like a post, reviews, shared it just for
Speaker 3: the family shares. If we're here's the deal. The more
Speaker 3: activity the algorithm seats across all of our listening platforms,
Speaker 3: the more we get promoted to more potential listeners. Who
Speaker 3: could that become potential cult members? Like there Steve, Fine,
Speaker 3: ladies and gentlemen, why are you gonna go check out
Speaker 3: Meta mysteries other till the show and get them the
Speaker 3: same lever respect over there with the five star views
Speaker 3: and the positivity in the comments. Come check out the
Speaker 3: Cage to Night and come join each of us for
Speaker 3: individual patrons, and we host every Wednesday night at nine
Speaker 3: pm Central, And we thank you for everybody's already gone
Speaker 3: and done so.
Speaker 2: And I also want to say too, just before we
Speaker 2: wrap it up, that if you enjoyed this kind of conversation.
Speaker 2: We have these kinds of conversations all the time on
Speaker 2: Meta Mysteries podcast. We're always diving into the spiritual, We're
Speaker 2: always diving into the psychedelic. We're always diving into the
Speaker 2: philosophical and the magical and every single thing in between.
Speaker 2: We like to really try and figure out what the
Speaker 2: hell is going on in this world, in this life,
Speaker 2: in this existence, and we're trying to figure out not
Speaker 2: ways to hack it, but maybe ways to optimize it. So,
Speaker 2: so if you want to go check us out, we are.
Speaker 2: We actually have a YouTube, so if you want to
Speaker 2: be able to watch all the videos and everything, I
Speaker 2: think you can go check out our YouTube. We're not
Speaker 2: worried about being banned over there because we don't talk
Speaker 2: about political suicidal two shots to the back of the
Speaker 2: head kind of thing. It's a little bit more acceptable
Speaker 2: I guess on YouTube algorithms. Uh so, yeah, we're on YouTube.
Speaker 2: Check us out at TikTok, Instagram, those kind of places.
Speaker 2: And also you'll see that every Monday and Friday we
Speaker 2: do have shows that are dropping on the Cult of Conspiracy.
Speaker 2: If you want to get those shows a day sooner,
Speaker 2: then go listen to them over at Meta Mysteries Podcast
Speaker 2: on the Meta Mystery Meta Mysteries platform if you're listening
Speaker 2: on Spotify or Apple, But if you want to get
Speaker 2: access to the shows even sooner than that, then you
Speaker 2: would go over to Patreon where it's completely commercial free.
Speaker 2: And we also have a live show every Wednesday night.
Speaker 2: We call it Wonder Wizday. If you want to get
Speaker 2: real weird with all of the other one, that's what
Speaker 2: we call our listeners over there. So yeah, just go
Speaker 2: check it out. I mean, it's it's it's a fun time, dude,
Speaker 2: if you're interested in, you know, just the weirdness of
Speaker 2: this can matrix or the simulation or dream or whatever
Speaker 2: it is. So yeah, we appreciate everybody that's gone and
Speaker 2: checked out that show. It's a passion project, just like
Speaker 2: this one. And they were both gone out of love
Speaker 2: and uh so we appreciate everybody that's gone and checked
Speaker 2: this out over there. But with that the except this
Speaker 2: was another beautiful episode of the Cult of Conspiracy. And
Speaker 2: my name is Jonathan and there's one very important, extremely
Speaker 2: vital piece off that us.
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