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<v Speaker 1>Good evening, everybody, and welcome to this week's first episode

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<v Speaker 1>of the Nonprofits And don't forget. Just below this video

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<v Speaker 1>is a little donate button. If you love what we

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<v Speaker 1>do and you want to help support us, please send

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<v Speaker 1>your love. Whether it's a dollar, twenty dollars, whatever, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't really care. But tonight our first article is going

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<v Speaker 1>to start in Colorado, where the Supreme Court has agreed

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<v Speaker 1>to hear a challenge to the state's ban on gender

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<v Speaker 1>conversion therapy four minors. The law House Bill nineteen Dash

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<v Speaker 1>eleven twenty nine, which went into effect in twenty nineteen,

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<v Speaker 1>is being challenged by a Christian counselor, Kayleie Chiles, who

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<v Speaker 1>argues that the state's ban on conversion therapy violates her

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<v Speaker 1>right to free speech. But is this not just a

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<v Speaker 1>case of forced religious indoctrination being disguised as free speech?

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<v Speaker 1>And what about the protections of the unwilling participants who

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<v Speaker 1>happen to be children? What rights do they have? This

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<v Speaker 1>story is from Axios by Avery Lotts on March time

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<v Speaker 1>and twenty twenty five, and here to discuss with me,

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<v Speaker 1>the I are AJ and infidel sixty four AJ. I

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<v Speaker 1>want to start with you.

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<v Speaker 2>Is there any.

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<v Speaker 1>Legitimacy to Child's claim that her free speech rights are

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<v Speaker 1>being violated.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think so. I don't see it as a

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<v Speaker 3>violation of her free speech rights because if you think

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<v Speaker 3>about it, she is welcome to discuss any type of

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<v Speaker 3>topic that she feels she has to discuss with her clients. Right,

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<v Speaker 3>if somebody comes to her and wants to discuss their

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<v Speaker 3>their gender, their sexuality, there's sexual orientation, they're free to do.

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<v Speaker 3>So what she's not free to do is force that

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<v Speaker 3>person to convert to what she wants them to convert,

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<v Speaker 3>because that's what conversion therapy is. They want to convert

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<v Speaker 3>somebody to what the therapist wants them to be. Right, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>if you go and you're a gay person, then they

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<v Speaker 3>want to turn you straight. If you're a trans person,

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<v Speaker 3>they want to make sure that you, you know, go back,

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<v Speaker 3>go back. I'm sorry to go these gender. So I

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<v Speaker 3>don't feel in this specific instance that it has anything

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<v Speaker 3>to do with free speech.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, Well, if fidel I want to ask you,

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<v Speaker 1>then on that point that AJ says, well, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they don't have to force this kind of thing on children, right,

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<v Speaker 1>or they can talk about anything but what about the

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<v Speaker 1>parents that force the children into that situation?

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<v Speaker 3>Do it?

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<v Speaker 1>It's kind of like I don't know, getting a tattoo

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<v Speaker 1>for example. You know, you need the parent's signature, right

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<v Speaker 1>If the parents are bringing the kids to this conversion therapy,

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<v Speaker 1>does the counselor have a right to push the religious

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<v Speaker 1>agenda on that child?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, first, I want to delve into a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of what AJ was talking about, because it leads into

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<v Speaker 2>exactly what you asked me, okay, And you know right now, though,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the whole idea of this being free speech

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<v Speaker 2>is ridiculous because speech you can, as AJ touched on,

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you can, you can say what you want

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<v Speaker 2>to say. A white supremacist can say whatever terrible things

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<v Speaker 2>that they want to say, But that doesn't grant them

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<v Speaker 2>to go out and you know Harvard pick up you

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<v Speaker 2>know a few African Americans that bring them out and

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<v Speaker 2>put them out in the field to start harvesting cotton.

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<v Speaker 2>Because under the guys are helping them find their rightful

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<v Speaker 2>place in society. You know, someone can rant about how

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<v Speaker 2>women's place is at home, but it doesn't mean you

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<v Speaker 2>can go out and lock up women and dictate that

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<v Speaker 2>they're what they can and can't do under the idea

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<v Speaker 2>of traditional values. And so when it comes down to this,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, parents have a right to believe in whatever

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<v Speaker 2>pseudoscience they want to get what they believe is the

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<v Speaker 2>best choice. And it does get tricky because I do

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<v Speaker 2>believe that parents should have a fundamental first say in it.

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<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, like we've seen cases where

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<v Speaker 2>people pray for their kids instead of bringing up to

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<v Speaker 2>the hospital, you're causing harm. And in this situation as well,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's really debatable on whether parents doing

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<v Speaker 2>that would be causing harm to their children. And so

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<v Speaker 2>with that in mind, I am very hesitant to think

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<v Speaker 2>that parents should have the right to do something that's

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<v Speaker 2>just a fact that you would be causing harm.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, sure, and I agree medical malpractice is what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>going to call. This should not be disguised as free speech.

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<v Speaker 1>And I have a quote from the director of Law

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<v Speaker 1>and Policy of the Trevor Project, and forgive me, I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't jot down the name, but in any case, this

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<v Speaker 1>person says, to be crystal clear, this challenge has nothing

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<v Speaker 1>to do with free speech and everything to do with

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<v Speaker 1>pushing dangerous, debunked practices that have not only proven to

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<v Speaker 1>cause irreparable harm to LGBTQ plus young people all across

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<v Speaker 1>the country. So, you know, I think that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there is this idea that you can kind of claim

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<v Speaker 1>constitutional violations whenever you're the religious person, right. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that our society, especially the way that we're moving, is

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<v Speaker 1>kind of conditioned people to say, oh, but it's God,

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<v Speaker 1>it's God. With reality, we have to call it what

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<v Speaker 1>it is, right, It's medical malpractice, it's abuse, it's harm

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<v Speaker 1>to children. Know the statistics on suicide and mental health

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<v Speaker 1>being high among LGBTQ plus youth, and so aj I

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<v Speaker 1>want to go back to you. I know that you

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<v Speaker 1>had a point to make about the quote unquote erasing

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<v Speaker 1>of LGBTQ people, and maybe that quote might lead into

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<v Speaker 1>that thought you had there.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, I was thinking that conversion therapy is

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<v Speaker 3>banned in Colorado, right, and this is where this has happened.

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<v Speaker 3>But there were so many other attempts in the past

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<v Speaker 3>to challenge this band. It's hard to believe that even

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<v Speaker 3>though it was already out loud, there's still I think,

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<v Speaker 3>I want to say, over fifty maybe states that actually

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<v Speaker 3>have loopholes for allowing conversion therapy. I know that twenty

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<v Speaker 3>of them have it completely banned, and you could correct

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<v Speaker 3>me and that if I'm not correct on this, But

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<v Speaker 3>just like you said, this is just like medical my practice. Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>Every major medical and mental health organization in the United

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<v Speaker 3>States has rejected and condemned the use of conversion therapy, including,

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<v Speaker 3>for example, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics,

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<v Speaker 3>the American Medical Association. And yet in a report that

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<v Speaker 3>came out in twenty twenty three, there were still over

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<v Speaker 3>a thousand and three hundred active conversion therapists operating in

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<v Speaker 3>the United States except for Vermont and Hawaii. But half

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<v Speaker 3>of those are associated with a religious organization. So this

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<v Speaker 3>has nothing to do, like you said, with freemous speech

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<v Speaker 3>or anything. That it's just trying to convert people based

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<v Speaker 3>on a religious belief.

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<v Speaker 1>And you raise a great point, and before I get

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<v Speaker 1>to that, I want to kind of close out this

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<v Speaker 1>free speech idea or get I have a question for

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<v Speaker 1>infidel and then I want to come back to the

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<v Speaker 1>idea of religion and and conversion therapy. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if where is the line drawn between the psychiatrist's freedom

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<v Speaker 1>and the patient's rights. In other words, at what point

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<v Speaker 1>does therapy just become too much?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? First, I think that when it comes down to

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<v Speaker 2>therapist rights, I think they've already lost from my perspective,

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<v Speaker 2>just arguing from that perspective, because while I'm giving willing

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<v Speaker 2>to give certain latitude to the parent to adhere to

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<v Speaker 2>policies and viewpoints that I find even reprehensible, when it

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<v Speaker 2>comes down to be a professional, if you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>present yourself as a professional, I think that there's a

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<v Speaker 2>whole different level of expectations. And I don't think you

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<v Speaker 2>have any damn free speech rights or you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>see these things bleed into things like people wanting to say, well,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I can't give you medicine, I can't give

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<v Speaker 2>you birth control pills because I think it's wrong because

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<v Speaker 2>you're an unmarried mother. This is the same thing. If

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<v Speaker 2>you got a job to do, do your job and

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<v Speaker 2>be a professional. It is not your job to to

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<v Speaker 2>get up on a on a soapbox and tell people

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<v Speaker 2>what you think. The hell with your free speech? So

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<v Speaker 2>I say that they they've already lost me when they

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<v Speaker 2>first said free speech. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, And that's a point I haven't considered you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when you agree to maybe help people with their problems,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the concern about your agenda should not be

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<v Speaker 1>a concern at all. I mean, this is not about you,

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<v Speaker 1>This is about the patient. And you know, we see

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<v Speaker 1>that in a lot of other sectors in society. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I've been to counseling before, and I just know from

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<v Speaker 1>experience that, you know, my counselor, when we get too

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<v Speaker 1>close to their own life, will pivot back and say,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, let's stay focused.

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<v Speaker 2>That kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Military chaplains, regardless of whatever denomination they represent, they're required

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<v Speaker 1>to help other people of different denominations, and you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>they take pride in it. So I don't understand why

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<v Speaker 1>we can't see the same thing. And it's an interesting

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<v Speaker 1>point you raised, aj, you know, just to clarify what

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<v Speaker 1>you had said. So conversion therapy completely banned in twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four states. There's a partial ban, in five there is

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<v Speaker 1>a prohibit, and then on the flip side, bands are prohibited.

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<v Speaker 1>So you cannot ban it in four states, and that's Georgia, Florida, Alabama,

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<v Speaker 1>and then Indiana. Interestingly enough, there's no ban in the

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<v Speaker 1>remainder and so that's eighteen states. But in any case,

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to kind of speak to a point that

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<v Speaker 1>you made. I have never seen a secular therapist with

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<v Speaker 1>an alternative agenda. Right, The conversion therapists are always religious,

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<v Speaker 1>and that might seem redundant, but you know, why is it.

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<v Speaker 1>Why is it that it's always this conversion out of

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<v Speaker 1>your perceived gender into the gender that society wants you

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<v Speaker 1>to be. Why does it always come from religious people?

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<v Speaker 3>I think the same reason why the hate comes from

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<v Speaker 3>religious people, right, is all I will relate it, like

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<v Speaker 3>in angles, back to the teachings that they put out

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<v Speaker 3>in church and from your own from even in your

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<v Speaker 3>own family, from childhood. Most religious peoples are already being

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<v Speaker 3>in shape to believe that they you know, being gay

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<v Speaker 3>is wrong, being transgender is wrong. And so these these

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<v Speaker 3>people grow up to be adults and eventually they're gonna

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<v Speaker 3>they're gonna grow up with the same exact beliefs. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's that's basically why you don't really find

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<v Speaker 3>secular therapists that are trying to apply this conversion therapy. Honest,

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<v Speaker 3>to be honest with you, I've never really heard men either,

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<v Speaker 3>Like you said, there's there's just no, it's just not

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<v Speaker 3>something that you hear about, like whenever you're saying exist.

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<v Speaker 2>I just don't know. I don't know if any.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that the point that I made earlier and

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<v Speaker 3>some of the research that I did, where I say

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<v Speaker 3>that thirteen hundred therapists, that half of them were associated

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<v Speaker 3>with a religious organization. It was simply major organizations, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>with like churches and Catholic hospitals and such. So I

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<v Speaker 3>think that more than likely the other half are religious

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<v Speaker 3>but not affiliated with a large organization that one could

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<v Speaker 3>recognize us, you know, like oh.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And on that note, you know, infidel, I want to

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<v Speaker 1>ask you, why is it that Christianity conflicts with another

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<v Speaker 1>person's bodily autonomy? I mean, what are think it's so

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<v Speaker 1>concerned about.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, the very basis of religion in general, but specifically

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<v Speaker 2>in this case Christianity. It's obedience. I mean, it's obedience

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<v Speaker 2>without thought. I mean when when you look at the

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<v Speaker 2>going back to Genesis, the first sin was seeking knowledge,

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<v Speaker 2>to seek understanding, and that has not ever been something

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<v Speaker 2>that Christianity or religion in general, tends to promote. It's

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<v Speaker 2>always obedience, follow the rules, you know, do what we say,

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<v Speaker 2>are whatever the hierarchy above you says you're supposed to do.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think that that's part of it. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think that we've had, unfortunately many people latch on to

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<v Speaker 2>certain things, like you know, there they are so gung

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<v Speaker 2>ho to tell us about what the Bible says about

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<v Speaker 2>LGBTQ people, but there's so many other things that the

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<v Speaker 2>Bible mentions more frequently that this kind of cat goes

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<v Speaker 2>by the wayside because it's something that they're that's close

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<v Speaker 2>to them, so they don't talk about it. So I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's a matter of projection of lack of obedience

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<v Speaker 2>to other people. And I think that that also comes

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<v Speaker 2>from a position of superiority, which is something else that's

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<v Speaker 2>hardwired in the religion.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely, and I don't think that it's any surprise

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<v Speaker 1>that Conservatives and Christians meld together. I mean, take a

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<v Speaker 1>look at the wave that is that is happening in

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<v Speaker 1>our country. I know I mentioned that same term earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>but it is it's kind of a wave. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it might be it might be kind of identity politics

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<v Speaker 1>that have been suppressed for a long time that are

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<v Speaker 1>that are now becoming exposed. But in any case, we're

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<v Speaker 1>seeing an increase, and it's among conservatives in this country

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<v Speaker 1>that are that are acquiescing and just following blindly to

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<v Speaker 1>people in power and basically taking whatever they say as gospel.

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<v Speaker 1>And that happens in Christianity as well. Right, you follow

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<v Speaker 1>the person with the book, you follow the person with

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<v Speaker 1>the with the text your entire life, and you never

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<v Speaker 1>question it. And we see that in conservative politics in

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<v Speaker 1>this country today. So again, no question why conservatives and

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<v Speaker 1>Christians get along so well.

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<v Speaker 2>I will say this.

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<v Speaker 1>The conservative group Alliance Defending Freedom states that Colorado disagrees

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<v Speaker 1>with Chile's excuse me, Colorado disagrees with Child's beliefs on

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<v Speaker 1>gender and sexuality so much so that it puts itself

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<v Speaker 1>in her counseling room. And I don't think this is

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<v Speaker 1>a case of the state injecting itself into the counseling room.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's a case of the counselor injecting religion

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<v Speaker 1>on unwilling participants. And so, ag I wanted to see

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<v Speaker 1>what you had what you had to say about that.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, you know when I think that's interesting when you

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<v Speaker 3>were talking about the conservatives, because it seems to me

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<v Speaker 3>that the majority of people of religions that have issues

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<v Speaker 3>with LGBTQ people are from conservative religions, not specifically Christianity

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<v Speaker 3>obviously in Catholicism is part of Christianity, but you also

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<v Speaker 3>have Muslims and all of the Abrahamic religions. Like if

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<v Speaker 3>you look at Bullhists, they don't care about algibetqple, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>you don't see them advocating for conversion therapy and stuff

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<v Speaker 3>like that. It's really interesting that it seems to be

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<v Speaker 3>only the conservatives that are focused on that obsession with

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<v Speaker 3>changing and erasing completely GIBTQ people.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, ifidel we have got when it comes to conservatives,

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<v Speaker 1>obviously a conservative majority on the Supreme Court. What's the

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<v Speaker 1>significance of that makeup to this fight over conversion therapy

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<v Speaker 1>and gender and sexuality in society today.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. For me, it's a very concerning thing because I

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<v Speaker 2>know that Supreme Court in the United States has owned

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<v Speaker 2>previously a decline taking up cases like this. I know Kavanaugh, Alito,

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<v Speaker 2>and Thomas have been in favor of it, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think that that's a very dangerous thing for us to

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<v Speaker 2>be gravely concerned about because we see it. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>Thomas has even been open enough to say that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe with this whole same sex marriage thing and contraception

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<v Speaker 2>weren't resolved the way they should be. And with Alito,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean he's even referred to lgbt Q as rights

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<v Speaker 2>as Satanism. So when you start taking things into that consideration,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Gorsa, he's all backing, He's back business discrimination

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<v Speaker 2>against LGBTQ people. Barrett. She's been linked to essentially what

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<v Speaker 2>I would call re education groups, you know, conversion therapy

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<v Speaker 2>to style type of behavior. So with this in mind,

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<v Speaker 2>I am gravely concerned how this is going to play out.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I think that the Supreme Court is right for

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<v Speaker 2>changing some things that we thought were safe as we've

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<v Speaker 2>seen in recent years. I think that the LGBTQ rights

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<v Speaker 2>is something else that very much could be on the

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<v Speaker 2>chopping block byers.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think they understand the harm that they're doing,

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<v Speaker 3>Like how harmful this is for young people. There's studies

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<v Speaker 3>that have shown that young LGBTQ individuals whose families don't

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<v Speaker 3>support them are eight times more likely to have attempted

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<v Speaker 3>suicide than those who had family support. And then you

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<v Speaker 3>have the American Academy of Pediatrics that has publicly stated

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<v Speaker 3>that these therapies directed specifically at trying to change somebody's

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<v Speaker 3>sexual orientation or their gender is not recommended. Okay, it

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<v Speaker 3>can prove guild anxiety, and in fact, over half of

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<v Speaker 3>tranksgendered you say that they have seriously considered suicide in

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<v Speaker 3>the last year because of their discrimination the rejection that

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<v Speaker 3>they face. Have so much conclusive scientific evidence, right, and

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<v Speaker 3>consensus among mental health experts and scientists affirming that when

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<v Speaker 3>you support an lgbtqu's child's identity, it protects their mental hope.

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<v Speaker 3>And the evidence shows that, you know, even trying to

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<v Speaker 3>suppress this is just really really harmful. So yeah, conversion

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<v Speaker 3>therapy should just not be practiced at all.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, on this show we have covered time and

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<v Speaker 1>again the effects of banning gender affirming care and seeing

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<v Speaker 1>that when that happens, not only our mental health CRIS

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<v Speaker 1>is more prominent, but so is drug use. People that

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<v Speaker 1>are self medicating, you know, people who have to seek

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<v Speaker 1>their own treatment because they're the help that they're getting

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<v Speaker 1>is being eliminated. It's it's the the drugs that like

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<v Speaker 1>antidepressants and anti anti anxiety medication. It's things like regular

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<v Speaker 1>hormone treatments, and we start to see a rise in

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<v Speaker 1>mental health issues for people when their identity, when their

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<v Speaker 1>gender and their sexuality is not taken as a serious issue,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's just bad for everybody, especially the children who

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<v Speaker 1>religion seems to always come for first. And now I

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<v Speaker 1>think conservatives have shown that they are willing to do

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<v Speaker 1>the same thing. So if you are interested in seeing

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<v Speaker 1>more of these topics talked about by the nonprofits, make

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<v Speaker 1>sure you click one of the links below, and don't

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<v Speaker 1>forget to tune in in two days on Wednesday Night

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<v Speaker 1>where we talk about Doge how it's cutting aid and

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<v Speaker 1>keeping billionaire welfare.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks