1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this. I want you to picture something 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:05,440 for a minute. Imagine a guy sitting in like the 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,919 back room of his girlfriend's aunt's house in North London. 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,119 It's the early two thousands, so you can probably hear 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,039 that dial of screeching in the background. This man, a 6 00:00:14,039 --> 00:00:16,760 self described little nerd named Gary McKinnon. He isn't some 7 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,000 state sponsored operative. He's not launching some you know, sophisticated 8 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,519 malware campaign. He's just driven by this childhood obsession, a 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,359 quest to find alien artifacts, suppressed anti gravity tech, basically 10 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,600 evidence of a massive government cover up. What happens next, 11 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:34,200 It honestly sounds like the wildest conspiracy theory, but it's 12 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,719 all real. Using shockingly simple techniques, this one person manages 13 00:00:37,719 --> 00:00:41,320 to breach almost one hundred US military and NASA computers. 14 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,240 We're talking the Pentagon Johnson Space. 15 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 2: Center that works, and that breach leads to this decade 16 00:00:47,679 --> 00:00:52,200 long international legal saga, and it all revolves around one 17 00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:55,960 truly explosive claim. McKinnon wasn't just you know, a cybervandal 18 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,119 messing around in his mind. He was this accidental truth 19 00:00:59,159 --> 00:01:02,479 seeker who stumbled upon what he believed was definitive proof 20 00:01:03,159 --> 00:01:06,439 proof of a secret space fleet, an off world military 21 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,480 operation that's now known as Solar Warden. 22 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Thrilling Threads today. Our mission is to take 23 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:13,920 a really deep look at the journey of Gary McKinnon, 24 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,120 code named Solo. We're going to trace his audacious intrusion, 25 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,879 the very real damage he caused, and then focus in 26 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,640 on that tantalizing evidence he claimed he found these files 27 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,920 that detailed non terrestrial officers. We're going to analyze the 28 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,040 two powerful opposing interpretations of those claims, the massive conspiracy 29 00:01:32,079 --> 00:01:35,040 and they well, the much more mundane bureaucratic explanation. 30 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:40,799 Speaker 2: What's fascinating here is it's this collision of idealism, total 31 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,519 technical and competence on the government's part, and then this 32 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,959 massive overreaction from the legal system. I mean, the US 33 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,000 government wasn't dealing with a foreign agent. They were dealing 34 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,439 with a lonely systems administrator, and yet they accused him 35 00:01:52,439 --> 00:01:56,079 of perpetrating what they called the biggest military computer hack 36 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,200 of all time. They leveled charges that carried a maximum 37 00:01:59,239 --> 00:02:01,040 sentence of seven years in prison. 38 00:02:01,359 --> 00:02:02,439 Speaker 1: Seventy years. 39 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: That's just stagger it it is. The perceived threat was 40 00:02:05,599 --> 00:02:08,319 just immense, especially because of the timing right after nine 41 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,360 to eleven. And to really understand why they came down 42 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,439 on him so hard, you first have to understand the 43 00:02:13,479 --> 00:02:17,919 man himself and the well the ridiculously simple methods he 44 00:02:18,039 --> 00:02:20,960 used to get admin level access into the most sensitive 45 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:21,919 networks in the world. 46 00:02:22,199 --> 00:02:24,479 Speaker 1: Right. To really grasp this, we have to start with him. 47 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,439 Gary McKinnon born in Glasgow in nineteen sixty six, working 48 00:02:28,479 --> 00:02:30,840 as a systems administrator in North London, and by all 49 00:02:30,879 --> 00:02:34,080 accounts he was, you know, a functioning, funny, intelligent guy, 50 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,800 but he had this profound, almost consuming preoccupation with UFOs 51 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:40,199 and suppress tech. 52 00:02:40,439 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and his obsession wasn't born in a vacuum. It 53 00:02:43,719 --> 00:02:48,319 was really deeply rooted in these existing cultural narratives. His stepfather, 54 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,240 for example, was a huge UFO buff. They lived near 55 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,719 a place called bonnie Bridge, which is kind of ironically 56 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,199 nicknamed the UFO Capital of the World because of all 57 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:57,960 the sightings there. 58 00:02:58,039 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: Oh wow. 59 00:02:59,199 --> 00:03:03,439 Speaker 2: But even more importantly, McKinnon's whole inspiration, his methodology, it 60 00:03:03,479 --> 00:03:06,319 was pulled straight from pop culture. He watched the nineteen 61 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,680 eighty three movie War Games, you know, the one where 62 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:12,080 a high school kid accidentally hacks into a military supercontructor 63 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:12,520 of source. 64 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: Shall we play a game exactly? 65 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,319 Speaker 2: And that question just lodged itself in his mind. Could 66 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,800 you actually do that? Could a normal person with just 67 00:03:19,879 --> 00:03:22,520 basic tools get into the highest levels of security? 68 00:03:22,759 --> 00:03:25,039 Speaker 1: So this wasn't just some idle curiosity for him, it 69 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,240 was a full blown ideological quest. He was a member 70 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,479 of BUFOREA, the British UFO Research Association. His seven year 71 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,360 long on and off deep dive into US systems was 72 00:03:35,439 --> 00:03:41,080 fueled by this one single goal find irrefutable proof. He 73 00:03:41,199 --> 00:03:44,479 wanted to confirm what groups like the Disclosure Project proclaiming 74 00:03:44,719 --> 00:03:48,719 that the government was actively hiding alien technology, reverse engineered 75 00:03:48,759 --> 00:03:52,120 anti gravity, and these suppressed free energy sources. 76 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: He was frustrated, He said it himself that he felt 77 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,639 the UFO community was more concerned with believing it than 78 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,960 proving it. He wanted hard proof, not just you know, 79 00:04:00,039 --> 00:04:03,879 blurry photos or anecdotal signings. He was looking for files, blueprints, manifests, 80 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,400 anything that would confirm these technologies existed, Technologies that could 81 00:04:07,439 --> 00:04:10,560 in his mind, solve the energy crisis. Improve were not alone. 82 00:04:10,639 --> 00:04:14,360 He really saw himself as this public service truth seeker. 83 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: Which is just a world away from how the US 84 00:04:15,919 --> 00:04:16,720 government saw him. 85 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,079 Speaker 2: Completely. To them, he was a malicious cyber sabiteur. 86 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: And the thing that made it all possible was frankly 87 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:27,879 just institutional laziness, a profound oversight in basic network security. 88 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:31,040 In the early two thousands, When you hear biggest military 89 00:04:31,079 --> 00:04:34,759 hack of all time, you're picturing some like complex zero 90 00:04:34,879 --> 00:04:38,959 day exploit that costs millions. McKinnon's approach was, well, it 91 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:39,680 was anything, but. 92 00:04:39,959 --> 00:04:42,319 Speaker 2: It was just pure persistence. He was scanning for the 93 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,839 lowest hanging fruit. He used a simple dial up modem 94 00:04:45,079 --> 00:04:48,959 and publicly available tools. We're talking standard network scanning software 95 00:04:48,959 --> 00:04:52,079 that literally anyone could download. His technique was this kind 96 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:56,439 of three stage process. He targeted systems using Windows, specifically 97 00:04:56,439 --> 00:04:59,079 Windows NT and Windows two thousand, which were just everywhere 98 00:04:59,079 --> 00:05:00,600 across government networ works back then. 99 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: So what was the actual vulnerability? How did he get in? 100 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 2: The key was a protocol called the Server Message Block 101 00:05:05,879 --> 00:05:09,680 or SMB. It operates on port one thirty nine. Now, 102 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,600 this protocol is used for like file and print sharing 103 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,879 on a local network in any secure environment. That port 104 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,800 should never ever be opened to the public Internet, especially 105 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,279 not without really rigid access controls. But McKinnon just scanned 106 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,120 huge IP ranges belonging to the DoD and NASA, just 107 00:05:26,199 --> 00:05:28,399 looking for machines that would respond on that port. 108 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,639 Speaker 1: And the vulnerability he found was just shocking. He wasn't 109 00:05:31,639 --> 00:05:33,800 cracking encrypted passwords or anything like that. He was finding 110 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,759 administrator accounts that didn't have passwords. 111 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,639 Speaker 2: They were blank exactly. It is the digital equivalent of 112 00:05:38,639 --> 00:05:41,199 a high security bank vault with the door just left 113 00:05:41,199 --> 00:05:44,199 a jar in So many of these military and NASA networks. 114 00:05:44,319 --> 00:05:49,079 Network admins were running these Windows machines that by default 115 00:05:49,399 --> 00:05:52,879 had something called null sessions enabled. It was for ease 116 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,800 of management, you know, but a mat If you tried 117 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,399 to log in as an administrator with a blank password, 118 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,600 the system, because of these lacks default settings, would just 119 00:06:00,639 --> 00:06:03,920 wave you right through. And McKinnon found this flaw over 120 00:06:04,079 --> 00:06:07,120 and over and over again. It gave him administrator level 121 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,560 access in some of the most sensitive organizations on Earth. Wow. 122 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,199 Speaker 1: So that gave him immediate deep access, but he needed 123 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,879 to stay in right which brings us to the next 124 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,040 step lateral movement. The sources say that once he found 125 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,040 a system with a blank password, he'd upload this legitimate 126 00:06:22,079 --> 00:06:24,839 remote access tool called Remotely Anywhere, Yes. 127 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,600 Speaker 2: And uploading that tool was his next critical step. And 128 00:06:27,639 --> 00:06:30,639 there's a real irony here. He used a legitimate commercial 129 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,120 product to do it in its haste, or maybe just 130 00:06:33,519 --> 00:06:36,240 social line you take. He sometimes even used his girlfriend's 131 00:06:36,319 --> 00:06:39,079 real email address to register for the trial version of 132 00:06:39,079 --> 00:06:42,839 the tool. Oh yeah, that oversight, that digital footprint, it 133 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,800 pointed right back to North London. There's a huge factor 134 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:49,560 in how they eventually identified him. But once Remotely Anywhere 135 00:06:49,639 --> 00:06:53,639 was installed, he could effectively bypass simple firewalls and as 136 00:06:53,639 --> 00:06:56,399 he put it, jump from computer to computer, center to 137 00:06:56,439 --> 00:06:58,079 center with little resistance. 138 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,079 Speaker 1: He actually described it as feel like he was walking 139 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,040 into another room, which really illustrates a huge structural failure 140 00:07:05,079 --> 00:07:07,839 in government security at the time. This reliance on trust 141 00:07:07,879 --> 00:07:11,079 relationships inside the networks. Once you were in one part 142 00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:13,319 of the Army's system, you were often trusted enough to 143 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,800 just move into logistics or even eventually into the US 144 00:07:16,839 --> 00:07:20,480 Space Command. The internal firewalls were just weak or non existent, and. 145 00:07:20,399 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 2: That leads to this other fascinating detail McKinnon shared. He 146 00:07:23,759 --> 00:07:26,199 claimed he was never alone in there. He'd run the 147 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,000 command network status, which lists all the active connections to 148 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:34,120 a machine and He said he frequently saw multiple simultaneous connections. 149 00:07:34,639 --> 00:07:39,399 McKinnon saw hackers from Denmark, Italy, Germany, Turkey, Thailand all 150 00:07:39,439 --> 00:07:42,240 in the same military networks every night for the entire 151 00:07:42,279 --> 00:07:43,079 time he was in there. 152 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:48,959 Speaker 1: If that's true, that is incredibly significant. It suggests two things. First, 153 00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:52,240 that the security flaws were systemic, they were known globally 154 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,680 exploited all the time by hackers looking for anything and everything. 155 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,360 And second, it really undermines the US government's narrative that 156 00:07:59,439 --> 00:08:03,240 McKinnon was this unique solitary threat responsible for the whole 157 00:08:03,279 --> 00:08:04,000 cleanup cost. 158 00:08:04,199 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: Exactly, it implies that cleanup cost was, at least in part, 159 00:08:08,319 --> 00:08:13,279 just fixing years of widespread, unchecked penetration by who knows 160 00:08:13,279 --> 00:08:14,000 how many people. 161 00:08:14,079 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: Okay, so now we have to move from the technical 162 00:08:16,079 --> 00:08:19,319 how to the quantifiable what the scale of his activities, 163 00:08:19,399 --> 00:08:21,560 because this is what the US government used to justify 164 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,160 going after him for a seventy year prisons on it, right, This. 165 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,639 Speaker 2: Wasn't a minor thing. The indictment accused McKinnon of accessing 166 00:08:27,639 --> 00:08:30,519 and damaging a massive number of computers. We're talking ninety 167 00:08:30,519 --> 00:08:33,279 seven computers belonging to the US Army, the Navy, the 168 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,440 Air Force, the DoD nastas. 169 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,279 Speaker 1: All across the US, all across. 170 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:40,039 Speaker 2: The US, plus six more computers at private businesses. And 171 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,600 this was all happening over about thirteen months, from February 172 00:08:42,639 --> 00:08:44,759 two thousand and one to March two thousand and two. 173 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,559 He was spending hours late at night just compying account files, 174 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:53,320 password data, sensitive documents all to his own machine. 175 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,679 Speaker 1: And the operational damage was well, it was devastating in 176 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:01,039 a few key places. The US Army's Military District Washington network, 177 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,960 the one that manages operations around the Capitol, was allegedly 178 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,799 shut down completely because of him. Just think about that impact. 179 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,080 A total loss of internet access and email service for 180 00:09:10,159 --> 00:09:15,279 about two thousand users or three days. That is paralyzing. 181 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,039 That's a total disruption in a command and control environment. 182 00:09:18,399 --> 00:09:20,399 This is where the US government could move beyond just 183 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:25,399 abstract cybercrime and point to genuine, measurable interruption of military function. 184 00:09:25,639 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 2: And it got more specific than just network shutdowns. At 185 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,200 the Earl Naval Weapons Station, the indictment alleged he deleted 186 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:37,559 critical operational files, specifically weapons logs, from their operating systems. 187 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,840 The official US position was that this specific act made 188 00:09:40,879 --> 00:09:45,039 their network of three hundred computers inoperable. It paralyzed munition 189 00:09:45,159 --> 00:09:47,320 supply deliveries for the entire Atlantic fleet. 190 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 1: That's a charge that borders on serious military sabotage. That's 191 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,039 not just hacking anymore right now. 192 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: McKinnon later defended these actions. He said they were either accidental, 193 00:09:56,759 --> 00:09:59,200 he admitted he might have inadvertently pressed the wrong button, 194 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:02,559 or that it was just a petiact of frustration. But 195 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:06,000 whatever his intent, the consequences were severe and tangible. The 196 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,399 financial cost alone for tracking him down, cleaning the systems, 197 00:10:09,399 --> 00:10:12,240 restoring the files it was substantial. They put the total 198 00:10:12,279 --> 00:10:15,000 between seven thousand, nine hundred thousand dollars. 199 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: And to the US Justice Department, that near million dollar 200 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:23,279 figure gave them concrete justification for their incredibly aggressive legal strategy. 201 00:10:24,039 --> 00:10:28,519 Beyond the damage, there was this provocative psychological element. McKinnon 202 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,679 wasn't always stealthy. He left his calling card, He used 203 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,399 word pad to post messages right on the desktops of 204 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,240 the systems he'd compromised, and he signed off as. 205 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,879 Speaker 2: Solo, And the content of those messages profoundly influenced the 206 00:10:41,879 --> 00:10:44,679 government's perception of him as a hostile threat. He less 207 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,679 messages like your security is crapped. I am solow I 208 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,120 will continue to disrupt at the highest levels. It just 209 00:10:50,159 --> 00:10:54,559 has this combination of technical arrogance and political activism, and crucially, 210 00:10:54,799 --> 00:10:57,320 some of his messages were politically charged. He referenced nine 211 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,919 to eleven directly. He wrote things like US foreign Paul 212 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,120 else is akin to government sponsored terrorism these days. It 213 00:11:03,159 --> 00:11:05,159 was not a mistake that there was a huge security 214 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:06,879 stand down on September eleven last. 215 00:11:06,799 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: Year, and that brings us to the timing. He was 216 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,919 doing this right before and immediately after September eleven, two 217 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,279 thousand and one, after the worst terrorist attack on US soil. 218 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,080 The military and the government were just operating under extreme 219 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,360 duress and frankly paranoia. 220 00:11:20,519 --> 00:11:23,639 Speaker 2: It's exactly when that indictment came down in November two 221 00:11:23,639 --> 00:11:26,440 thousand and two, the US military did not see an 222 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:31,000 eccentric truth seeker. They saw an active enemy agent, possibly 223 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,080 linked to hostile foreign interests, who was deliberately trying to 224 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,200 cripple their systems at a time of peak national vulnerability. 225 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,759 The indictment charged him with seven counts under the Computer 226 00:11:40,799 --> 00:11:44,080 Fraud and Abuse Act. Each count carried a potential ten 227 00:11:44,159 --> 00:11:45,200 year sentence. 228 00:11:44,919 --> 00:11:48,799 Speaker 1: Which gets you to that staggering maximum exposure, seventy years 229 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:49,399 in prison. 230 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,679 Speaker 2: It wasn't just about punishment. It was designed to be 231 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:54,799 an absolute statement of deterrence to anyone who even thought 232 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,840 about touching US military networks. They were going to make 233 00:11:57,879 --> 00:11:59,879 an overwhelming example of solo. 234 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,159 Speaker 1: Okay, let's pivot now, let's move to the reason McKinnon's 235 00:12:03,159 --> 00:12:06,200 story goes beyond a typical cybercrime report and becomes this 236 00:12:06,399 --> 00:12:10,200 cultural flashpoint, the evidence he claims he found. This is 237 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,720 the moment the narrative shifts from military logistics to well 238 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,200 to interstellar speculation. This is the bedrock of the whole 239 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:18,759 Solar ward in mythology. 240 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: The entire story everything that followed hangs on three crucial 241 00:12:24,039 --> 00:12:27,519 pieces of alleged evidence that McKinnon says he found during 242 00:12:27,519 --> 00:12:30,679 these deep dives, mostly NASA systems, but maybe some DoD 243 00:12:30,799 --> 00:12:31,440 manifest two. 244 00:12:31,879 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: First, the personnel manifest. McKinnon claims he found an Excel 245 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,840 spreadsheet on a NASA or DoD system and the file 246 00:12:38,919 --> 00:12:42,840 title was the immediate Shocker non Terrestrial Officers. 247 00:12:43,759 --> 00:12:46,039 Speaker 2: I mean, that's the phrase that unlike the whole secret 248 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:47,639 Space program narrative for him. 249 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: He says he analyzed the file pretty quickly. It contained names, ranks, 250 00:12:51,159 --> 00:12:55,480 transfer dates, and his interpretation was immedia and profound. This 251 00:12:55,799 --> 00:12:59,080 was to him a personnel manifest for a space going 252 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:02,320 fleet made of human personnel, not aliens. He claims he 253 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,320 meticulously checked the names against public databases and couldn't find 254 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,399 them anywhere in standard US military or government records at 255 00:13:08,399 --> 00:13:09,159 the time, and. 256 00:13:09,159 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 2: That absence of a public identity just reinforce his belief 257 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,799 that these are highly classified people assigned to deep plaque 258 00:13:14,799 --> 00:13:15,919 projects exactly. 259 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: Then comes the second finding, the logistics documentation. This is 260 00:13:19,759 --> 00:13:22,039 what confirmed the fleet idea in his mind. He found 261 00:13:22,039 --> 00:13:26,320 another document, this one detailing material transfers between ships, and 262 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,360 this list had about eight to ten specific ship names 263 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,919 on it. Again, McKinnon claims he checked online and none 264 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:36,320 of them were publicly acknowledged US Navy ships. So in 265 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,159 his mind, you combine a manifest of non terrestrial officers 266 00:13:40,639 --> 00:13:45,399 with a document tracking material transfers between unacknowledged. 267 00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 2: Ships, it's the smoking gun. 268 00:13:46,279 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: It's the smoking gun. His conclusion was logical if you 269 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,720 accept his starting premise. This non public evidence, he said, 270 00:13:52,879 --> 00:13:56,600 made me believe they have some kind of spaceship off planet. 271 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,799 It cemented the idea of a secret space based army, and. 272 00:14:00,759 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 2: This is where it connects directly into the whole conspiracy 273 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,600 ecosystem that already existed. McKinnon pointed out that some of 274 00:14:06,639 --> 00:14:09,639 the names used for these classified ships were people allegedly 275 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,480 involved in Majestic twelve. You know that secretive post Roswell 276 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:15,240 group from nineteen forty seven, right. 277 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,919 Speaker 1: The group supposedly created to manage the whole extraterrestrial situation. 278 00:14:19,159 --> 00:14:22,399 Speaker 2: And so he reasoned, if a secret space program exists, 279 00:14:22,679 --> 00:14:25,720 the people associated with the earliest cover ups are exactly 280 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,919 the ones you would expect to find name checked in 281 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:28,679 this way. 282 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,399 Speaker 1: And this narrative just provided immediate fuel for existing theories. 283 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,960 Conspiracy figures, most famously agun named Corey Good, have explicitly 284 00:14:37,039 --> 00:14:41,120 championed McKinnon's findings. They claim that this ambiguous data, the 285 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:45,399 ship types, the personnel assignments, it all perfectly corroborates the 286 00:14:45,399 --> 00:14:49,159 alleged secret space program known as Project solar warden Right. 287 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 2: The program, they claim is this massive multinational fleet operating 288 00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:58,320 off planet using back engineered alien spacecraft technology. McKinnon, the 289 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,399 systems administrator, provided the accidental administrative confirmation they were all 290 00:15:02,399 --> 00:15:03,120 looking for. 291 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,039 Speaker 1: And now we get to the most cinematic part of 292 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,919 the story, the alleged photographic proof, what McKinnon himself calls 293 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,320 is Eureka moment. This happened on a computer at NASA's 294 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,960 Johnson Space Center. He says he found a folder labeled unfiltered. 295 00:15:16,039 --> 00:15:18,399 Speaker 2: That label itself is so suggestive, isn't it to Why 296 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,559 would NASA need a folder specifically called unfiltered unless filtering 297 00:15:22,639 --> 00:15:26,399 or airbrushing was a standard practice before they release images 298 00:15:26,399 --> 00:15:28,159 to the public. So he clicks into it and he 299 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,320 finds a thumbnail image of a high resolution NASA satellite photo. 300 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,279 And he described the image itself in really vivid detail, 301 00:15:34,919 --> 00:15:39,080 a tubular, classic cigar shaped UFO. But it had these 302 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,600 distinct structural features, he said, geodesic domes, like half a 303 00:15:42,639 --> 00:15:44,039 golf ball stuck on top and. 304 00:15:44,039 --> 00:15:47,799 Speaker 1: Underneath the detail he gives there the geodesic domes that 305 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,320 suggests as a specific kind of engineering. It's not just 306 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,919 a blur. He was stunned. He was convinced he'd found 307 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,720 real evidence of either a massive secret US craft or 308 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,000 you know, genuine extraterrestrial technology. 309 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,399 Speaker 2: And you have the technical tragedy of the situation. Remember 310 00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:05,320 this is dial up in North London, connecting to servers 311 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,720 thousands of miles away. As this high ray's image is slowly, 312 00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:13,480 agonizingly downloading pixel by pixel onto his screen, he experiences 313 00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:17,240 the ultimate digital interruption. He saw the mouse cursor suddenly 314 00:16:17,279 --> 00:16:20,480 move across the screen, but he wasn't controlling it. It 315 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,240 right clicks the land icon and chooses disconnect. 316 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: The digital door just slams shut in his face. It 317 00:16:25,879 --> 00:16:29,519 was this definitive, terrifying moment where he realized they got me. 318 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,600 He lost the chance to download the full photo. But 319 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,600 the second that cursor moved on its own, he knew 320 00:16:35,639 --> 00:16:36,440 his time was up. 321 00:16:36,639 --> 00:16:39,279 Speaker 2: He wasn't just caught by some automated script. He was 322 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,480 caught by a living, breathing human being on the other end, 323 00:16:42,879 --> 00:16:46,879 actively monitoring the network. And that event, more than any 324 00:16:46,919 --> 00:16:50,360 file he found, proved to him just how deep the 325 00:16:50,399 --> 00:16:52,000 secrecy he was fighting really was. 326 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,679 Speaker 1: Okay, so we've established the facts of the intrusion and 327 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,679 the claims about the evidence. Now we have to apply 328 00:16:56,759 --> 00:16:58,879 that critical lens. This is where we move beyond the 329 00:16:58,919 --> 00:17:01,919 sensational story into the deep analysis of the language in 330 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,039 the context. Was McKinnon right or was his ideological filter 331 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:07,960 just misleading him. 332 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:11,519 Speaker 2: The whole analytical debate really hinges on the linguistic ambiguity 333 00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:14,559 of the terms. McKinnon found. You have to contrast his 334 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,880 highly motivated interpretation with the well the prosaic, often obtuse 335 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,400 language of government bureaucracy. 336 00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: Let's start with that term non terrestrial. McKinnon, whose laser 337 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,119 focused on finding offworld evidence. He interprets this literally, not 338 00:17:29,279 --> 00:17:32,960 of Earth, implying interstellar travel or contact. 339 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,839 Speaker 2: But inside the DoD and NASA. Language and classification are 340 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:42,079 driven by logistics, by funding, by jurisdiction, not necessarily by 341 00:17:42,079 --> 00:17:43,759 the physical location of the personnel. 342 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,000 Speaker 1: That's a key distinction. But why would a bureaucracy use 343 00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:49,079 a term like that if they just meant astronaut? 344 00:17:49,519 --> 00:17:54,279 Speaker 2: Because classification has layers, non terrestrial could simply be internal jargon, 345 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,599 a term they used to delineate personnel assigned to duties 346 00:17:57,599 --> 00:18:00,680 that aren't purely bound by Earth's rotation or grond Well, 347 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,079 I mean, think about it. A standard astronaut is still 348 00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:07,200 technically part of a terrestrial organization. But someone focused solely 349 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,359 on maintaining orbital assets or controlling deep space probes like Voyager, 350 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,000 they might be categorized differently. For funding and for rotation purposes. 351 00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: Okay, so it could just be an HR designation. 352 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 2: It could be It could simply refer to personnel assigned 353 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,880 to the International Space Station or deep space communication control, 354 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,839 or even people managing specialized high altitude vehicles that operate 355 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,160 on the boundary between the atmosphere and space. It's an 356 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,839 organizational identifier. It specifies their duty station and their specialized 357 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,119 risk assessment. It doesn't necessarily confirm they have a base 358 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,680 on Mars. McKinnon's interpretation was absolutely driven by his pre 359 00:18:43,759 --> 00:18:47,519 existing ideological bias. He saw evidence of a secret space 360 00:18:47,559 --> 00:18:51,039 fleet where a government administrator just saw a highly compartmentalized 361 00:18:51,079 --> 00:18:52,559 payroll designation. 362 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: That semantic filtering is so powerful. He was looking from 363 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,440 a justed twelve So when he saw a term that 364 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,079 supported that narrative, he instantly adopted the most sensational reading. 365 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,759 But what about the ships. He confirmed they weren't in 366 00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:05,400 any public US Navy registry. 367 00:19:05,559 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 2: Well, the secrecy of the ships is actually pretty easy 368 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,599 to explain. It's just compartmentalization. The list of non public 369 00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:14,880 ships only proves that the assets are highly classified, which 370 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:19,160 is standard operating procedure for any advanced military project. It 371 00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,880 doesn't prove their orbital. They could be code names for 372 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,920 a huge range of sensitive terrestrial or near space assets. 373 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,039 Speaker 1: Like what what's the mundane explanation there? 374 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,400 Speaker 2: Well, consider the possibilities. They could be code names for 375 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,640 experimental stealth aircraft or drones, especially those long endurance, high 376 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,200 altitude ones. The military often uses nautical terms for those 377 00:19:39,519 --> 00:19:43,519 vessel ship craft. They could be specialized deep sea submersibles, 378 00:19:44,079 --> 00:19:47,599 or maybe most plausibly, given the NASA and DoD integration, 379 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,359 they could refer to reusable uncrewed space vehicles like the 380 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,640 X thirty seven B space plane, or even just modules 381 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,799 being assembled in orbit. For the ISS, Aerospace Logistics sometimes 382 00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:02,079 refers to those as ships or vessels in their manifests. 383 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,880 The sack McKinnon couldn't find them online just confirms they 384 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,759 were classified, not that they were interstellar. 385 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,119 Speaker 1: This systemic ambiguity. It brings us to the core paradox 386 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,319 of the whole McKinnon case. If he really found evidence 387 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,319 of the biggest secret in human history, an off world fleet, 388 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,680 why did the US government pursue him based on a 389 00:20:19,799 --> 00:20:21,839 nine hundred thousand dollars cleanup costs? 390 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 2: This is the definitive analytical distinction. If McKinnon had successfully 391 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,279 downloaded schematics for a secret space station or captured that 392 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,400 full HIRIS photo of an alien craft, the prosecution would 393 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,319 have been under intense secrecy. They likely would have invoked 394 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,079 espionage laws, tried him in a closed military adjacent court, 395 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,640 something like the Espionage Act. They didn't. No. Instead, the 396 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,960 focus was demonstrably on punishing the act of intrusion, the 397 00:20:48,039 --> 00:20:51,799 measurable financial and operational damage he caused. The massive US 398 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,440 legal pressure was all about deterns. They wanted to send 399 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,400 an undeniable message globally, if you access these networks without authorization, 400 00:20:58,559 --> 00:21:00,839 you will face ruinously consequences. 401 00:21:01,079 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: And that deterns policy just backfired spectacularly. By so aggressively 402 00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:10,200 pursuing a seventy year sentence, By dragging this through extradition 403 00:21:10,319 --> 00:21:14,039 courts for a decade, the US inadvertently amplified the whole 404 00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:16,640 conspiracy theory. It gave it a cultural weight it might 405 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:17,759 never have had otherwise. 406 00:21:18,039 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 2: Exactly. McKinnon's supporters interpreted the harsh, draconian legal action as 407 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,319 circumstantial proof that the secrets he found were genuinely world shattering, 408 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,559 proof that the government was willing to go to any extreme, 409 00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:34,680 like destroying a man's life to suppress the truth. The 410 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,160 severity of the prosecution became the very evidence that validated 411 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:38,720 the fantasy. 412 00:21:38,759 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: It created this self reinforcing loop. 413 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,519 Speaker 2: It did. The US needed to protect its networks, so 414 00:21:43,559 --> 00:21:46,440 they pursued the maximum penalty, but that pursuit was immediately 415 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,359 reinterpreted by the conspiracy community as proof of maximum secrecy. 416 00:21:50,799 --> 00:21:53,240 It was a massive political and public relations failure for 417 00:21:53,279 --> 00:21:54,880 the US Justice Department. 418 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: So the technical breach and the alleged discovery were really 419 00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:00,440 only the beginning. The next ten years of his life 420 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,480 were just this grinding, terrifying legal battle, a battle that 421 00:22:04,519 --> 00:22:08,559 transformed his life into a continuous nightmare and eventually pitted 422 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,799 US legal might against the UK's human rights protections right. 423 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,319 Speaker 2: McKinnon was arrested in March two thousand and two, but 424 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,559 the legal threat didn't truly solidify until two thousand and three, 425 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,480 when the UK passed the Extradition Act two thousand and three. 426 00:22:23,519 --> 00:22:27,079 This new treaty really streamlined the extradition process to the US. 427 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,559 It reduced the amount of evidence the US needed to provide. 428 00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:32,519 Speaker 1: And that's what let them formally request his extradition in 429 00:22:32,519 --> 00:22:33,920 two thousand and five, yes. 430 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 2: And that kicked off the decade long fight, and the. 431 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: Stakes from McKinnon were just astronomical. He was facing a 432 00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:42,759 potential seventy year sentence in an American supermax prison. The 433 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,920 fear was palpable. He genuinely worried he could be categorized 434 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,400 as a cyber terrorist and maybe even sent to a 435 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,200 place like Wantanamo Bay, a fear. 436 00:22:50,039 --> 00:22:52,599 Speaker 2: That was only addressed by this vague, unsigned note from 437 00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:56,039 the US embassy, which gave no official written guarantees on 438 00:22:56,079 --> 00:22:58,119 his sentencing or his imprisonment conditions. 439 00:22:58,759 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: It was terrifying for him, and the legal options were dire. 440 00:23:02,519 --> 00:23:04,000 The US offered him a plea. 441 00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:07,279 Speaker 2: Bargain, a common practice in American law, but something the 442 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,680 ckinnon and his British lawyers found really unsettling. They told 443 00:23:10,759 --> 00:23:13,160 him he could face only thirty seven to forty six 444 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,119 months if he immediately cooperated and went voluntarily, but if 445 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,599 he fought the extradition and lost, he was looking at 446 00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:21,079 eight to ten years per count. 447 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,559 Speaker 1: And he refused to cooperate. He maintained he hadn't broken 448 00:23:24,599 --> 00:23:28,599 anything intentionally, that he wasn't this sophisticated criminal, just a 449 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,960 curious guy who wandered into open doors. 450 00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 2: His case became this lightning rod for criticism of that 451 00:23:34,039 --> 00:23:37,759 new extradition treaty. The case wound its way through every 452 00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:40,640 level of the UK judicial system, the High Court, the 453 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:43,319 House of Lords. He lost his appeal there in two 454 00:23:43,319 --> 00:23:46,000 thousand and eight. The UK courts just felt bound by 455 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:46,519 the new law. 456 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: But then came the turning point, the thing that derailed 457 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,359 the whole process. 458 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 2: The humanitarian defense. In two thousand and eight, McKinnon was 459 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,680 clinically diagnosed with Asperger syndrome, a condition on the autism 460 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,200 spectrum along with severe depressive illness. And this was just 461 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,559 a diagnosis that provided a completely new legal avenue, one 462 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:04,960 rooted in human rights law. 463 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,279 Speaker 1: So how did the Asperger's diagnosis specifically impact the legal case? 464 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:10,920 What did it change? 465 00:24:11,079 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 2: It provided crucial context for his behavior, for his obsessive nature. 466 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,720 A psychiatrist testified that McKinnon showed the classic patterns of Aspergers, 467 00:24:20,279 --> 00:24:24,319 a narrow, intense attention span and a total obsession, traits 468 00:24:24,319 --> 00:24:27,480 that made him technically capable of troving these networks for years, 469 00:24:28,599 --> 00:24:32,920 But crucially, he lacked the social naivete to fully understand 470 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,400 or process the severe criminal consequences of what he was doing. 471 00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:39,680 His focus was on the puzzle, on the truth seeking mission, 472 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,559 not in a geopolitical fallout. 473 00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: So his legal team argued that extradition would be incompatible 474 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,440 with his human rights, citing the intense stress and the 475 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:48,519 high risk of self harm. 476 00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 2: It was under crushing stress and his medical vulnerability became 477 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:53,839 the central focus in the entire case. 478 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: This shift turned the legal issue into a political and 479 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,799 public human rights crisis, and the level of public support 480 00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:02,680 he received was extraordinary. I mean you had David Gilmore 481 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:07,119 of Pink, Floyd Sting, Stephen Frye all speaking out for him. 482 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 2: David Gilmour even released a charity cover of Chicago Changed 483 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,640 the World that featured McKinnon just to keep the pressure 484 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,559 on the government. Even the then opposition leader David Cameron 485 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,640 voiced support demanding he be tried in the UK, where 486 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,839 the alleged crime actually originated. 487 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: And all that political pressure, amplified by the humanitarian angle, 488 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,519 ultimately led to this extraordinary executive intervention in twenty twelve. 489 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,599 After a decade of legal proceedings, the Home Secretary at 490 00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:37,160 the time, Theresa May, she just bypassed the judicial process 491 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,039 and formally blocked the extradition. 492 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 2: It's a rare and profound exercise of executive authority, and 493 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,920 her decision was based entirely on humanitarian grounds. She specifically 494 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,880 invoked Article three of the European Convention on Human Rights, 495 00:25:50,079 --> 00:25:54,480 which prohibits inhuman or degrading treatment. She stated that McKinnon 496 00:25:54,559 --> 00:25:57,680 was seriously ill and that extradition would present such a 497 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,839 high risk of him ending his life that a decision 498 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,000 to extradite would be incompatible with mister McKinnon's human rights. 499 00:26:04,079 --> 00:26:07,279 The political risk of sending a seriously ill, publicly supported 500 00:26:07,319 --> 00:26:10,400 man to face decades in a foreign prison it was 501 00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:12,000 just deemed too high. 502 00:26:11,839 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: And the final outcome provided total legal resolution. The UK 503 00:26:15,799 --> 00:26:18,160 authorities decided not to prosecute him either. 504 00:26:18,319 --> 00:26:21,559 Speaker 2: That's right. The Director of Public Prosecutions informed him he 505 00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:24,960 would face no criminal charges in the UK. They cited 506 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,319 that technical difficulties in bringing a successful case since so 507 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,519 much of the key evidence and witnesses were held by 508 00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:33,839 the US. So after a decade of legal terror, Gary 509 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,319 McKinnon walked away a completely free man. 510 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 1: But the legacy of that legal resolution is the ultimate 511 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,319 structural irony of the whole solar Warden story. The case 512 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,119 was settled based on his medical vulnerability and human rights, 513 00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:48,759 which means the alleged evidence the actual files were never 514 00:26:48,759 --> 00:26:50,319 scrutinized in an open court. 515 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 2: Absolutely, if the trial had gone forward, the defense would 516 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,680 have tried to subpoena that non terrestrial officers spreadsheet the 517 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,839 ship's manifest It would have forced NASA and the DoD 518 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,519 to either officially confirm the mundane explanation that it's just 519 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,920 jargon for ISS staff, or to deny the existence of 520 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,720 the documents entirely by blocking the extradition. The official denial 521 00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:14,759 or verification of solar Warden was never forced under oath. 522 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,880 It allowed the core claims to just persist, preserved forever 523 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,519 by judicial ambiguity and humanitarian concern. 524 00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:24,559 Speaker 1: So what does this all mean? The McKinnon saga is 525 00:27:24,599 --> 00:27:27,839 this perfect case study in how simple security failures, fueled 526 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:32,799 by deep seated ideological curiosity can create these powerful, enduring myths. 527 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,039 Speaker 2: You saw lacks security, blank passwords allow a hobbyist access 528 00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:39,839 to highly sensitive systems. That access was exploited by a 529 00:27:39,839 --> 00:27:42,240 man obsessed with finding proof of Majestic twelve, and his 530 00:27:42,319 --> 00:27:46,400 pre existing bias immediately translated this ambiguous jargon non terrestrial 531 00:27:46,519 --> 00:27:50,319 officers into proof of an interstellar military fleet solar Warden. 532 00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: And the government's response, an aggressive decade long pursuit, threatening 533 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,880 seventy years in prison over what nine hundred thousand dollars 534 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,559 in clean up costs, in vertently transformed him from a 535 00:28:01,599 --> 00:28:05,440 cyber vandal into a martyr. It validated the very secrecy 536 00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:06,559 he claimed to be exposing. 537 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,880 Speaker 2: We wanted to Terrence. What they got was a self 538 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:09,880 fulfilling prophecy. 539 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,519 Speaker 1: And that name solar Warden, that itself tells a story. 540 00:28:12,519 --> 00:28:13,680 It wasn't McKinnon's term. 541 00:28:13,799 --> 00:28:16,079 Speaker 2: No, the name seems to have been retroactively applied to 542 00:28:16,279 --> 00:28:20,240 his ambiguous data. It was heavily influenced by existing science fiction, 543 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,640 specifically a military sci fi series by an author named 544 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,319 Ian Douglas, which features a secret government agency called solar Warden. 545 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,759 It just proves how quickly ambiguous government data gets labeled 546 00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:34,000 and cemented into the public narrative by fictional frameworks that 547 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:34,799 are already out there. 548 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: McKinnon proved that the security systems of NASA and the 549 00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:40,839 US military were, for a crucial time, vulnerable to a 550 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,960 lonely man on a dial up modem. The evidence for 551 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,640 an interstellar fleet However, it remains dependent entirely on the 552 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,640 semantic interpretation of classified logistics jargon. But let's leave you 553 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,680 with this final provocative thought. If the US government was 554 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,079 willing to spend ten years, invest massive diplomatic resources, and 555 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,880 risk an international human rights incidents uarly over the active 556 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,200 intrusion and the quantifiable damage of nine hundred thousand dollars, 557 00:29:04,279 --> 00:29:06,400 what lengths do you imagine they would truly go to 558 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,839 protect an actual interstellar fleet capable of operating outside our 559 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,119 solar system. Where do you draw the line between classified 560 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,759 military jargon and a legitimate cover up designed to hide 561 00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:18,839 the most profound discovery in human history. We want to 562 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:20,680 hear what you think about Gary McKinnon's claims