Speaker 1: The important thing here is like as we think of
Speaker 1: stable coins and we think of crypto, it's just now
Speaker 1: us as PayPal taking that and enhancing their experience even further.
Speaker 1: I think that's the most important thing. What value do
Speaker 1: I get out of it as a customer?
Speaker 2: Stable points and blockchain technology? What does that mean to PayPal?
Speaker 2: Is it the fabric of how payments are going to
Speaker 2: move forward? Or is this a proof of concept you're testing.
Speaker 1: When you think about it from a consumer's perspective, they
Speaker 1: don't really need to understand the plumbing behind it. They
Speaker 1: just need to understand the value.
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Speaker 2: a description. Check it out. Hey everyone, welcome into the
Speaker 2: Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward and joining
Speaker 2: me today is May Zabane, who is the SVP and
Speaker 2: General Manager of Crypto at PayPal. May has been at
Speaker 2: PayPal for over eighteen years and PayPal most recently is
Speaker 2: announced it's taking its pyus the stable coin global with
Speaker 2: a massive launch across seventy new markets. May, great to
Speaker 2: have you, Great to be here, Yeah, May, I am
Speaker 2: so excited for this conversation to dive into the latest
Speaker 2: news of PayPal's expansion of p y usd as well
Speaker 2: as your other crypto initiatives. But I would love to
Speaker 2: kick it off with your background. Tell us about where
Speaker 2: you're from and your professional background. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, I'm actually originally from Jordan in the Middle East.
Speaker 1: I grew up and was raised there and then came
Speaker 1: to the States for I know you said background, and
Speaker 1: I'm going way back, so sorry, don't worry, I'll make
Speaker 1: this short. And then came to the States for college
Speaker 1: and continued and landed in the rabbit hole of tech.
Speaker 1: And loved it from there. So I have like hardware
Speaker 1: experience that have done and then into the payments side
Speaker 1: of the house and been in payments for quite a while,
Speaker 1: and then that brought me into crypto because the fascinating
Speaker 1: part of like how can you continue to innovate in
Speaker 1: payments and how do you really drive and add value
Speaker 1: back to consumers and merchants and utilizing a new technology
Speaker 1: such as watchain technology and being able to do that
Speaker 1: was like super exciting and a passion of mine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is one of the reasons I'm so
Speaker 2: excited to speak with you because you have a plethor
Speaker 2: of experience in payments. You've been a PayPal for a
Speaker 2: very long time to so I want to like dive into,
Speaker 2: you know, your pov of seeing the evolution of payments
Speaker 2: and what that looks like in the future. You know,
Speaker 2: where along the lines did you come across blockchain and crypto?
Speaker 2: What was the aha moment for you? Yeah?
Speaker 1: A lot of it kind of stems also from like
Speaker 1: just my background, Like when you when you are somebody
Speaker 1: that's you know, raised in an international perspective, and especially
Speaker 1: like when you think of the different countries that you're
Speaker 1: surrounded by So if you think about we grew up
Speaker 1: actually knowing that a lot of people would use dollar
Speaker 1: access to to hedge from inflation. We knew that like
Speaker 1: cross border fees were expensive, like wires and time and settlement,
Speaker 1: and so I grew up in that environment with that
Speaker 1: pretty much being embedded is kind of the core of
Speaker 1: justt of everyday life. And so when you take those
Speaker 1: those were foundational, like rooted kind of problems that we
Speaker 1: always knew about just money and it's connectivity and access
Speaker 1: around the world and from a global perspective. And so
Speaker 1: when obviously the white paper came out and then there
Speaker 1: was like the bitcoin emergence and then the continuous around
Speaker 1: while there could be a stable cryptocurrency, right, that then
Speaker 1: ties and it still takes all these benefits like it's
Speaker 1: incident transfers, it's reduced costs, it's sent to anyone anywhere
Speaker 1: in the world, like it really then starts to become
Speaker 1: that aha moment of Wow, these are pain points that
Speaker 1: I've seen for most of my life, and now there's
Speaker 1: a technology that's really starting to bridge us further and
Speaker 1: closer into this global connectivity in such a meaningful way.
Speaker 2: So me I want to make sure I asked this
Speaker 2: question because it's not so much for me, but I
Speaker 2: think more the crypto curious and that people who are
Speaker 2: still learning about stable coins and all these things are
Speaker 2: stable coins and blockchain technology. What does that mean to Paypalt?
Speaker 2: Is it, let's say, the fabric of how payments are
Speaker 2: going to move forward? Or is this a proof of
Speaker 2: concept you're testing and you're doing certain things. I want
Speaker 2: you to answer that question. I know the answer, but
Speaker 2: I want you to give that perspective.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's really important when you think about
Speaker 1: it today, Like from a consumer's perspective, today, money moves
Speaker 1: for them in some cases, like within the PayPal wallet,
Speaker 1: it is and sent in some cases they have financial
Speaker 1: service as the cards, et cetera. They don't really need
Speaker 1: to understand the plumbing behind it. They just need to
Speaker 1: understand the value. Hey I need to send my friend money.
Speaker 1: I would like it at the cheapest costs I can,
Speaker 1: in the fastest way possible, and in something that they're
Speaker 1: familiar with. Right, And so when you think about just that,
Speaker 1: that's who we started as a company. We started connecting people,
Speaker 1: We started connecting consumers and merchants. We started connecting consumers
Speaker 1: and consumers to be able to move their money and
Speaker 1: value and in a way that is simple and easy
Speaker 1: and relatable to them.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 1: I think the important thing here is like, as we
Speaker 1: think of stable coins and we think of crypto, it's
Speaker 1: just now us as PayPal taking that and enhancing their
Speaker 1: experience even further. It's saying, hey, if you want to
Speaker 1: now send cross border to a friend around the world
Speaker 1: and in a stable currency, because that's what your friend
Speaker 1: wants to receive. And by the way, you can do
Speaker 1: that today through PayPal, a platform that you're familiar with,
Speaker 1: and you can send it will there's no cross border fee,
Speaker 1: there's no time to settle, it can arrive instantly and
Speaker 1: for them. And so I think that's the most important
Speaker 1: thing that any mainstream user needs to understand, not the
Speaker 1: complexity or the back end or the plumbing of how
Speaker 1: things work, but actually, like what value do I get
Speaker 1: out of it as a customer? What are you tangibly
Speaker 1: giving me, Which is something that has faster speed, something
Speaker 1: that has a lower cost, something that then you're putting
Speaker 1: in a platform that can be accessible to me in
Speaker 1: the place that I'm used to engaging with and trust.
Speaker 2: Pardon the interruption. Hi, I'm Tony. I'm the host of
Speaker 2: the Thinking Crypto podcast. I wanted to ask you if
Speaker 2: you can please support the podcast by hitting the like
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Speaker 2: the five star rating. I'll let you get back to
Speaker 2: the content. Thank you so much. Absolutely, And then just recently,
Speaker 2: PayPal announced the expansion of its stable coin pyu is
Speaker 2: the to seventy markets worldwide. So talk to us a
Speaker 2: bit about that and how that's going to improve crossborder payments.
Speaker 2: You know, you highlighted some of the benefits there and
Speaker 2: the strategy behind the expansion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so fundamentally, because as you said, well, like a
Speaker 1: payments company with our stable point and have a distribution
Speaker 1: network of consumers and merchants of like hundreds of millions
Speaker 1: right around the world, and so when you think of
Speaker 1: that now, it's like, Okay, how do we utilize it
Speaker 1: and actually put it in people's hands so that they
Speaker 1: can access it and they can find utility around it
Speaker 1: and so this was a big portion of our of
Speaker 1: our access strategy, a part of that which is, okay,
Speaker 1: how do we now enable our PayPal wallets around the
Speaker 1: world into these seventy markets to be able to hold, send, spend,
Speaker 1: and earn rewards on our stable point. And by the way,
Speaker 1: now if that if that consumer and that's in a
Speaker 1: specific country Columbia, Peru, et cetera, now wants to send
Speaker 1: it to somebody else. Now they can again, they send it,
Speaker 1: they receive it in a stable value as US sollers
Speaker 1: backed stable coin. They can now send it to another person.
Speaker 1: And now a flywheel really starts to emerge, and there's
Speaker 1: there's no costs. There's really like bare minimum costs in that.
Speaker 1: So the transfer feed part of it is minimal of costs,
Speaker 1: the stability of it being there's no conversion into local
Speaker 1: guardsy they can when they want to, and that gives
Speaker 1: them more control because now if I received it, and
Speaker 1: I'm in one of those kinds trees as p y U,
Speaker 1: s C, I can whenever I want to, whenever the
Speaker 1: FX you know, rates are best suited for me to
Speaker 1: be able to convert it. And so it really gives
Speaker 1: and empowers people around the world to have more like
Speaker 1: economic control. And I think that's what really like excites
Speaker 1: us the most and like makes this really purposeful because
Speaker 1: now you really are able to give that stability to
Speaker 1: people and especially where they need it most.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is really great, and the benefits to folks
Speaker 2: in many countries and developing countries and so forth. You know,
Speaker 2: I think here in the United States we take for
Speaker 2: granted the ability to move moneyly and we have all
Speaker 2: the infrastructure, but that's not the case across the globe.
Speaker 2: And I love the fact that people can earn rewards.
Speaker 2: So to your point, if they're just holding on to
Speaker 2: that py USD stable corn, they can actually put it
Speaker 2: to work. Tell us a bit about the rewards and
Speaker 2: how that functions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we love to say this is a PayPal's
Speaker 1: valueball up. We help you earn, send, spend, and we
Speaker 1: want to get view that flexibility. So on the URN perspective,
Speaker 1: if you hold so the amount that you hold, you
Speaker 1: essentially earn annual four percent annual rewards on bo I
Speaker 1: C by having that in your wallet, and you obviously
Speaker 1: can then still send and spend it as you want.
Speaker 1: But it really give gives at least puts your money
Speaker 1: to your you know, your money value, monetary value to
Speaker 1: work when you're not sending or spending it.
Speaker 2: Now PayPal, of course within its network has Venmo and
Speaker 2: I know you offer crypto the ability to buy sell crypto.
Speaker 2: There is p yus you also available via Venmo.
Speaker 1: It is actually yeah, I think we launched in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one or sorry, twenty one, crypto trading was launched
Speaker 1: in Venmo and then in twenty three once we launched
Speaker 1: our stable point, it was actually available in both PayPal
Speaker 1: and Venmo.
Speaker 2: Interesting, so does it offer the same type of capabilities or.
Speaker 1: Okay, pretty much the same. Yeah. So you can buy
Speaker 1: and sell different cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum and Solana.
Speaker 1: You can also hold p y u s C, you
Speaker 1: can earn on p y u s C, you can
Speaker 1: you can transfer, so it it's it's definitely a great
Speaker 1: capability and especially for that demographic and for Venmo users,
Speaker 1: it really provides an easy way. It's a platform they
Speaker 1: eleven and engage with and now it's just an extra,
Speaker 1: an extra way for them to engage.
Speaker 2: Kind of a customer perspective question with the rollout, are
Speaker 2: the users notified that hey, the p y u s
Speaker 2: these stable coin is now powering our rails. And here
Speaker 2: are the benefits, like lower fees, you can earn rewards
Speaker 2: or is it kind of just running behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: The customer seeds is the benefits. But I think you
Speaker 2: alluded to earlier. They don't necessarily need to know the piping.
Speaker 1: Yeah, on this one in particular, this launch, it is
Speaker 1: more customer facing, means that they would hold a p
Speaker 1: y a stable point itself. It's not the back end
Speaker 1: like piping of the like payments infrastructure. I do think
Speaker 1: we you know, the world will go there on both sides,
Speaker 1: being you know, stable coins being part of the back
Speaker 1: end architecture as well as being a front and kind
Speaker 1: of asset that people use and materialize. But in this case,
Speaker 1: in particular, it is p y us. See this set.
Speaker 1: The great news is that most people in these emergent
Speaker 1: countries and different places already actually understand what stable coins
Speaker 1: are have adopted it half familiarity again because people are
Speaker 1: trying to find ways to provide stability for themselves. And
Speaker 1: you know, US dollar accessed just as a as a
Speaker 1: currency is not always accessible in certain countries for many
Speaker 1: different reasons and relationships or infrastructure that's available, and so
Speaker 1: I think that's where crypto it provides a little bit
Speaker 1: more accessibility and access. So it's still the stability of
Speaker 1: US dollar, but it's it is a cryptocurrency that is
Speaker 1: open and accessible.
Speaker 2: That's incredible, and it's awesome to hear that consumers in
Speaker 2: other countries, they are starting to get educated and they
Speaker 2: understan they're starting to understand what's happening here and how
Speaker 2: stable coins and these things can change the way they
Speaker 2: can get access to the US dollar and much more.
Speaker 2: And you know, I just as you were saying that,
Speaker 2: I thought back to two thousand and nineteen ninety nine
Speaker 2: and using PayPal back then in the early days of
Speaker 2: the Internet, and it's amazing how things have evolved since then.
Speaker 2: It's just fascinating. It's incredible.
Speaker 1: Right, There's a point in technology was like, oh, moving
Speaker 1: money digitally was like a big thing, and then it
Speaker 1: was oh my gosh, there's mobile payments and what does
Speaker 1: that do? Right? And then there's like instore payments. You mean,
Speaker 1: I can take my digital and start paying in store,
Speaker 1: you know, outside of the traditional you know, became a
Speaker 1: lot more of the tap and base and O Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, let a lot of that. And so when
Speaker 1: you think about just the evolution of just your money
Speaker 1: or your value, and I think this is a bit
Speaker 1: of the next frontier, which is like, how do you
Speaker 1: now take we've made some of these pieces. Now it's
Speaker 1: a bit of that on chain, you know version we've
Speaker 1: done off liin mobile online, and now it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: what does the chain application into payments look like? And
Speaker 1: how do you take and freak those benefits and then
Speaker 1: provide that back to customers. So I think it's actually
Speaker 1: super exciting because I think when you think about the
Speaker 1: world and where we are, global connectivity matters a lot instancy,
Speaker 1: and you know, things are becoming more rapid and instant,
Speaker 1: and that's everything of our expectations, from social to payments
Speaker 1: to every aspect. And then if you even predict further
Speaker 1: out like into an AI you know world, if you
Speaker 1: think agent to agent and you think about some of
Speaker 1: these things, it needs programmable money and a different type
Speaker 1: of currency than fiat, especially if you think of micro
Speaker 1: transactions and you think about things that if we believe
Speaker 1: that is where the world is going, then it will
Speaker 1: also need a digitally native for grammable currency, where stable
Speaker 1: coins would have also a perfect fit to play in there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well said, you know, there's a lot of talk
Speaker 2: of AI agents and I've even interviewed some folks who
Speaker 2: are building humanoid robots and software, and guess what, They're
Speaker 2: going to have a built in crypto wallet. And I
Speaker 2: can't imagine those those things AI agents and humanoid robots
Speaker 2: are going to be using cash and stable coins are
Speaker 2: you know, the best fit with the instant settlement twenty
Speaker 2: four to seven, you know, everything's running three sixty five,
Speaker 2: it seems those digital we want to call it, non
Speaker 2: human interactions are going to be powered by stable coins.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's fascinating, like it's and I you know,
Speaker 1: it's you know, no one knows, but obviously there's a
Speaker 1: tons of like high anticipation or prediction of that, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel considering how things have moved so fast,
Speaker 1: it almost feels like it may come sooner than we think.
Speaker 1: And it's just fascinating you to see how it helps
Speaker 1: us evolve.
Speaker 2: So do you see that maybe in ten years time,
Speaker 2: stable coins are running through the rails, Consumers are educated
Speaker 2: about it. If they choose to, they can leverage the
Speaker 2: stable coins in different ways, but pretty much PayPal it's competitors,
Speaker 2: and all the payments domestic or cross boarder are powered
Speaker 2: by stable coins.
Speaker 1: I think there's a world for both to interact. So
Speaker 1: I don't know that stable coins solve everything. And that's
Speaker 1: where I think we need to be honest and careful,
Speaker 1: as you know, as we were deliberate and intentional, as
Speaker 1: we you know, as builders and technologists kind of build
Speaker 1: into the future, Like we shouldn't be seeking you know,
Speaker 1: it's not the solution to problem that like which ones
Speaker 1: is it? And then that's why cross border payments, it's
Speaker 1: it's a pretty it's a pretty compelling solution when you
Speaker 1: look at the costs and the settlement and the times
Speaker 1: and so there definitely I think will be a world,
Speaker 1: or continue to be a world where both will continue
Speaker 1: to exist. And I think it's just the sharpened focus
Speaker 1: of like true maximized value, because there's no point in
Speaker 1: moving some things that work very efficiently onto stable cointments.
Speaker 1: Like what's the point of that If it's not adding value,
Speaker 1: it's not reducing costs, and it's not helping customers at
Speaker 1: the end of the day. But maybe it's helping a
Speaker 1: business in the back end being more efficient in their
Speaker 1: treasury movement, maybe cross countries and borders, and then a
Speaker 1: customer probably never needs to know, but the company itself
Speaker 1: is maximizing its efficiency or saving costs, and that that's
Speaker 1: super relevant. And so I think it's the application as
Speaker 1: we think about it, what is the product market fit?
Speaker 1: What true value do you drive in the equation? And
Speaker 1: then being able to provide that out is the world
Speaker 1: that we will see more of. So I think it's
Speaker 1: a little bit of that pushing payments further into spaces
Speaker 1: that drive that really need faster speed, need lower costs,
Speaker 1: and then you'll see that emerge a lot.
Speaker 2: So on that note, that's that's a great point and
Speaker 2: a great segue into something I wanted to ask you about,
Speaker 2: and that is TCS Blockchain and Paypals partnership where the
Speaker 2: collaboration allows for more carriers to settle freight invoices faster
Speaker 2: and cheaper. Tell us about that collaboration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So TCS Blockchain is doing a a fantastic job
Speaker 1: of really understanding the pain points of like the trucking
Speaker 1: industry and how important right like invoices are being paid instantly,
Speaker 1: being able to receive money in your hands so that
Speaker 1: they can can continue to operate right And so they've
Speaker 1: then applied kind of the blockchain rails and to this
Speaker 1: application of invoicing and now been able to give truckers
Speaker 1: and give people just their value right away and to
Speaker 1: be able to then operate in their financial lives. So
Speaker 1: I think it was a great way for them to
Speaker 1: just showcase like application and what I really loved about
Speaker 1: it also it's in a different vertical a different industry
Speaker 1: than we've normally and traditionally talked about like just holistically
Speaker 1: as an industry as we've thought about kind of payments
Speaker 1: or the application. And this is what I think is
Speaker 1: super exciting now and what we'll start to see from
Speaker 1: here to the next few years is the applications of
Speaker 1: blockchain and stables into more and more verticals, into places
Speaker 1: where there are really driving down kind of pain points.
Speaker 1: And that was a great like B to B example
Speaker 1: of where it helps.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really great, And I love that this technology
Speaker 2: is solving problems and you're highlighting different industries, different verticals,
Speaker 2: and I think these stories have to be told because
Speaker 2: so they don't usually make the headlines. Sometimes it's usually
Speaker 2: something you know about the price of this coin went
Speaker 2: up and things like that. So I love these type
Speaker 2: of stories. Another one that's kind of close to home
Speaker 2: to me is YouTube added p YUS, the stable coin
Speaker 2: as a payout option for US content creators. How did
Speaker 2: that come about?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a thing that we've been very passionate about,
Speaker 1: which is how do you help in cross border payments?
Speaker 1: How do you provide people more access into everything that
Speaker 1: we had just talked about, Right, a stable currency for
Speaker 1: where they need it, so more globally if you think
Speaker 1: about it, And what YouTube did is apply it within
Speaker 1: their US aspect to start with, right, And so I
Speaker 1: think it's we have a product called a payouts product
Speaker 1: within PayPal and that has multi different ways for YouTube
Speaker 1: to be able to pay out for their content creators.
Speaker 1: And so we worked internally with our teams and expanded
Speaker 1: to have p yusc also as an option in our
Speaker 1: payouts product. So if a consumer would want for it
Speaker 1: to be in their bank account, they can also obviously
Speaker 1: have that, and now they can also have it within
Speaker 1: py USC.
Speaker 2: And so.
Speaker 1: We were thrilled to work with Google on this and
Speaker 1: expand the payouts partnership and be able to add it
Speaker 1: as an additional And what I love about that use
Speaker 1: case is it starts to inspire and make it real
Speaker 1: for people. It's like because that is a place that
Speaker 1: I think there is a major pain point, which is
Speaker 1: why we integrated the product in the first place with
Speaker 1: pyosc because now all these marketplaces, all these places where
Speaker 1: content creators, if you just step away from just specifically
Speaker 1: on the Google one, just holistically that market on content
Speaker 1: creation and gig workers they do, there's a lot that
Speaker 1: get paid overseas, and so that ties into our earlier
Speaker 1: conversation of then now not only domestically but also internationally
Speaker 1: allowing people to have choice in the way that they
Speaker 1: want to get paid, and then depending on where where
Speaker 1: it is is like the value that it will matter
Speaker 1: most with. So I think it was a great example
Speaker 1: in use case of like how to apply a stable
Speaker 1: coin into into an aspect of a different again vertical
Speaker 1: and way that people would give people choice.
Speaker 2: Now another news item, and you guys have been done
Speaker 2: a lot, so I wanted to make sure I go
Speaker 2: through all of these. But we've been busy. We've been
Speaker 2: busy for sure, and this one I think is pretty
Speaker 2: profound with moonpay and m zero they announced p y
Speaker 2: u s d X, a framework that allows developers to
Speaker 2: issue application specific stable coins backed by p y u
Speaker 2: s C. That's pretty incredible to tell us about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is this is a great also example
Speaker 1: as you said of like now you have the ability
Speaker 1: for developers to build in very seamless and scalable ways
Speaker 1: without taking on all the complexity. So mumpey and m
Speaker 1: zero have you know, an excellent like infrastructure, have the tools,
Speaker 1: have all the development to be able to offer that
Speaker 1: in a platform, to be able to offer developers. And
Speaker 1: so what are they offering developers. They're offering developers essentially
Speaker 1: the ability to get started quickly easily, to be able
Speaker 1: to have then their own stable coin and be able
Speaker 1: to have their own business that they can build off
Speaker 1: of in a very fast way. And ultimately that is
Speaker 1: backed by pyosc, which pyosc is holistically in itself as
Speaker 1: transparent reserves is like as a you know, a brand
Speaker 1: halo around it. And so this partnership is perfect. It
Speaker 1: takes the best of what we do, which is offering
Speaker 1: our brand is stable coin, the best of what mumpe
Speaker 1: and m zero do, which is providing the platform and infrastructure,
Speaker 1: and they then have packaged that out into the industry
Speaker 1: for developers as a tool to be able to say,
Speaker 1: start building. We make this easy for you, and then
Speaker 1: you can kind of build your businesses not worry about
Speaker 1: these things instead of getting bogged down without actually go
Speaker 1: create the experiences you know, and the ideas and bring
Speaker 1: those to life. Where these developers have such creative aspects
Speaker 1: of So I.
Speaker 2: Want to dive a bit deeper into that just to
Speaker 2: have like a real world example. So let's say I'm
Speaker 2: Amazon and I want to launch my own stable coin.
Speaker 2: So with this PLAT framework, I can do that kind
Speaker 2: of like a layer two to p y U s
Speaker 2: D with p y U s D used as the
Speaker 2: reserves to back my stable coin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's almost like poys is a reserve, yeah, reserve
Speaker 1: asset around it.
Speaker 2: Yet interesting, and how is the p y is the
Speaker 2: custodied or is it like in a vault And I'm
Speaker 2: assuming moon pay and m zero at the one doing
Speaker 2: like the attestation so to speak, or to custody.
Speaker 1: So p y C itself, the papsos is the issuer.
Speaker 1: Papsos will do the adjustation on reserves. So none of
Speaker 1: that part changes of pyusc itself, that's all transparent, that's
Speaker 1: all published, that's all kind of audited throughout.
Speaker 2: Interesting. So it's kind of like a stable coin as
Speaker 2: a service type product where it can be almost like
Speaker 2: white labeled where almost any retailer or company can do this.
Speaker 1: Kind of Yeah, they've they've and what the beauty of
Speaker 1: what they've done is they have the tool developer tools,
Speaker 1: infrastructure to be able to provide the things needed holistically
Speaker 1: and then this being as a reserve asset. And that's
Speaker 1: what I think is the most powerful is like what
Speaker 1: developers need is like to get started fast, to be
Speaker 1: able to go create what they want but not have
Speaker 1: to worry then about they have to create their own
Speaker 1: stable point, create then all these like complexities around it.
Speaker 1: So plamon Pan has been able to do with them
Speaker 1: zero is just like package this up almost kind of
Speaker 1: like you said, like as a service type in a
Speaker 1: box for them and then go build, Like here's the
Speaker 1: infrastructure part that you need to go build and and
Speaker 1: create the business that you know they've dreamt of and
Speaker 1: and you know fundamentally want to you know, solve some
Speaker 1: specific problem that they're building for.
Speaker 2: That's pretty profound. I don't. I don't believe this is
Speaker 2: the first of its kind if I'm not mistaken, because
Speaker 2: I've not heard of anything like this before.
Speaker 1: I think there's uh, you know what I I I
Speaker 1: can't answer. I think I don't know there's a holistic
Speaker 1: package that's been that's been out there, so so yeah,
Speaker 1: I will. But it is very unique, it is very powerful.
Speaker 1: We are super excited about it. Have you know, launching
Speaker 1: being out there and being able to provide kind of
Speaker 1: service and especially to developers that addresses like a market
Speaker 1: you know builders.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, And I'm assuming you know, all these things
Speaker 2: are possible because the Genius Act has been passed and
Speaker 2: that's that's been rolled out, and you know what does
Speaker 2: that meant for PayPal's business, you know on the stable coin.
Speaker 1: Side, Yeah, for Genius. I think what it's the most
Speaker 1: beautiful thing that it did is it put I think
Speaker 1: America back in the in the game a bit. It
Speaker 1: provided this you know, showcase of a framework and of
Speaker 1: a stance that we want to have, you know, cryptocurrencies
Speaker 1: and building and thinking holistically about the crypto industry back
Speaker 1: into the game of like being more forefront of innovation,
Speaker 1: giving traditional players what they would need to feel like
Speaker 1: the permission to play in without worrying about the ambiguity.
Speaker 1: And I think that's exactly what it did. It helped
Speaker 1: because post Genius, what you saw as a floodgate then
Speaker 1: of all the traditional players in the industry now starting
Speaker 1: to say more publicly and come out, Okay, we need
Speaker 1: to think about what our stable point strategy is. We
Speaker 1: need to think about what it means, how do we
Speaker 1: use it, how do you apply it, do you create
Speaker 1: your own do you not? So it just almost as
Speaker 1: if it was permission to engage, and that's what I
Speaker 1: thought was really powerful about it and what we started
Speaker 1: to see. So it started to make the conversation actually
Speaker 1: much easier. Before it was a lot of will there
Speaker 1: should there be stable coins, but they're not yet regulated,
Speaker 1: there's no frameworks around it. And it took all of
Speaker 1: that away, and it's just like, yes, stable coins are real,
Speaker 1: stable points are here, they're actually even from a government perspective,
Speaker 1: like being talked about and will be regulated. And so
Speaker 1: now it's just about so what do you do and
Speaker 1: how do you materialize the benefits of it to your
Speaker 1: own business?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned like government's talking about it. This
Speaker 2: is such an important item for the US and the
Speaker 2: US world reserve, the US dollar continuing to be the
Speaker 2: world reserve currency. Many members of Congress, even the President
Speaker 2: himself has talked about this, and it feels like it's
Speaker 2: another Bretton Woods moment where there is a significant change
Speaker 2: in how currency is handled, you know, going back to
Speaker 2: the gold standard and coming off the gold standard, these things.
Speaker 2: It's it's I think, like a pivotal time in history,
Speaker 2: and I think it's going to be looked back as
Speaker 2: you know, hey, twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six, that
Speaker 2: was the moment we went fully digital so to speak,
Speaker 2: with the US dollar and helped it to maintain the
Speaker 2: world reserve currency status.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we're just in a very unique in
Speaker 1: our lifetime. At least this is probably the first time
Speaker 1: I'd say, like it's the first unique moment. We're at
Speaker 1: this exact kind of almost crossroads or like this pivotal
Speaker 1: change where if you think about the impacts of if AI,
Speaker 1: you think about the impacts of blockchain technology and the
Speaker 1: application of it, like we are changing the way people interact,
Speaker 1: We're changing the way people move value, people even see value,
Speaker 1: and people can access value and it's really powerful and
Speaker 1: that's what makes us like intersections so exciting to be
Speaker 1: in the center of this, to be able to define
Speaker 1: and iterate and figure out what that next wave is
Speaker 1: as the world is evolving and every day there's something
Speaker 1: different and technology is moving at a speed so than
Speaker 1: I think we've ever seen it before, and so it's
Speaker 1: it's such a beautiful time to be able to be here,
Speaker 1: to be present, and to be able to build in
Speaker 1: this space.
Speaker 2: There was another news item I wanted to ask you
Speaker 2: about where p y U s D is going to
Speaker 2: be used to support USD DOT AIS on chain financing
Speaker 2: for AI infrastructure including GPUs and data centers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's another example of exactly what we talked about, right,
Speaker 1: which is a reserve kind of asset aspect. So they
Speaker 1: have an idea where they are helping provide financing to
Speaker 1: get access to kind of the GPUs and to be
Speaker 1: able to do it with you know, with with capital
Speaker 1: and being able to access it. And so here again
Speaker 1: p y U s T is more in the back
Speaker 1: end of this, but a reserve asset. So I think
Speaker 1: it's what I love about this is it starts to
Speaker 1: show like where the cryptonative ecosystem has continued to develop
Speaker 1: and build in these applications and use cases, but doesn't
Speaker 1: need to go on solid of everything it can actually
Speaker 1: rely on than a reserve asset. That's you know again,
Speaker 1: has that transparency, has that aspect that brings brings the
Speaker 1: credibility and takes away the complexity.
Speaker 2: May everybody in their uncle as a result of the
Speaker 2: Genius Act, Passing is looking to launch a stable coin,
Speaker 2: right even the banks are talking by doing so. Certainly
Speaker 2: there's going to be more than one obviously, uh maybe
Speaker 2: more than a handful, But could there be too much
Speaker 2: saturation over time where there needs to be some consolidation
Speaker 2: and you know, PayPal being one of the leaders in
Speaker 2: payments with a huge brand, huge network, look to acquire
Speaker 2: somebody these other stable coin players and build up its
Speaker 2: you know network even further. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think the you know, the the thing about where
Speaker 1: we're at and state like focus is incredibly important, and
Speaker 1: so like being diligent and thoughtful about what really is
Speaker 1: the next step. I think we're right now and payments
Speaker 1: are emerging as.
Speaker 2: A use case.
Speaker 1: How do we take what we have and actually show
Speaker 1: this show these movements and moments and value to consumers,
Speaker 1: merchants and integrate in the network. So at this point
Speaker 1: I agree with you, like, I don't think while everybody's
Speaker 1: like figuring out do they partner, do they build? Do
Speaker 1: they buy aspect, we've already we've already been in that decision.
Speaker 1: We've already created our own and built you know, have
Speaker 1: our own obviously with Taxis being the issuer, but we
Speaker 1: have our own branded one and so now it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: so we've already passed that kind of question that I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people are still entering into. We've
Speaker 1: passed that question for us. It's like utility and application.
Speaker 1: It's like, how do I now make this into real payments,
Speaker 1: real adoption and real people using it and materializing it?
Speaker 1: And those are the problems we're thinking about and solving.
Speaker 1: How do you ignite the flywheels? How do you start
Speaker 1: giving it in more hands to more people around the
Speaker 1: world in our ecosystem. I think to your point, a
Speaker 1: lot of other companies are starting on this debate. You know,
Speaker 1: what do they do? What should their approach be? And
Speaker 1: exactly that, Like, if they start now, there's probably going
Speaker 1: to be there will be there's going to be a
Speaker 1: lot of players trying to get in. Not all of
Speaker 1: them will succeed. Some only want it enclosed wall gardens,
Speaker 1: some will leave it open, And so you get into
Speaker 1: this aspect they really should think through of like really
Speaker 1: how much complexity should they take on and where do
Speaker 1: they want to play as they see the world and
Speaker 1: it's changing.
Speaker 2: So speaking of the world and how it's changing, I
Speaker 2: think it goes without saying the future is more digital
Speaker 2: than today, right, We're not going backwards, and certainly the
Speaker 2: younger generation are more digitally savvy. You know, for the
Speaker 2: most part, they're doing everything on their smartphone. I think
Speaker 2: I heard Sandy call from Franklin Templeton and I want
Speaker 2: to give her credit for this. You know, we're heading
Speaker 2: away from the account based setup to the wallet based setup,
Speaker 2: and obviously Aypal it's clearly doing that. Are there any
Speaker 2: interesting trends or anything you're It might be too early
Speaker 2: to answer this question, but that you're seeing with the
Speaker 2: younger generation. I don't know if you guys track things
Speaker 2: like that, and how they're adopting crypto via Venmo and
Speaker 2: PayPal and even the use of p y USD.
Speaker 1: I think it's I mean, and actually, you know, it's
Speaker 1: just fascinating because wherever you go, you will you will
Speaker 1: probably you hear this, like you hear somebody at a conference.
Speaker 1: They'll be like, my daughter came up to me and
Speaker 1: has bought bitcoin or or has engaged with the sable
Speaker 1: one is explaining to their parents like what this is.
Speaker 1: So I actually definitely think you're spot on, Like I
Speaker 1: think there is a generational thing where they have actually
Speaker 1: getting introduced into digital value, straight into cryptocurrencies, and so
Speaker 1: I think they're they're they're also in a world where
Speaker 1: like they are engaging and adopting and having to like
Speaker 1: materialize what the move of technology so fast, Right, So
Speaker 1: they've gotten used to TikTok and they've gotten new to Instagram.
Speaker 1: They've grown in a digital world themselves. They've had iPads
Speaker 1: since they were like I don't know two three some
Speaker 1: of them, and that's what the first device that they
Speaker 1: learned on. Right, So it's a generation that is learning
Speaker 1: digital native straight from the start, and they have adopted
Speaker 1: and understand. You also see this sense. I think it's
Speaker 1: just a broader trend is that I look around at
Speaker 1: least from just my people that I talk to you
Speaker 1: see this trend of like economic freedom emerging in the
Speaker 1: in the in the also the younger generation, Like the
Speaker 1: traditional way that people have looked at assets and wealth
Speaker 1: and growth is not necessarily how the younger generation is
Speaker 1: looking at it, and so the adoption of kind of
Speaker 1: trying to find their way of economic freedoms. Right. I
Speaker 1: was just having this debate with a colleague on like
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's abating do I buy a house?
Speaker 1: Do I not buy house? And he's like, it's just
Speaker 1: people have even seen like real estate in a different
Speaker 1: way where traditionally used to be like the foundation you'd
Speaker 1: have to have a home, and that's what like the
Speaker 1: you know, the American dream it was, and now it's
Speaker 1: actually I feel like it's all changing a little bit
Speaker 1: and how people view the world for how to grow wealth,
Speaker 1: for how kind of global and accessibility really matters. And
Speaker 1: so I think these are components and thinking about a
Speaker 1: digital first world that everybody is growing into. I mean,
Speaker 1: you think about your like, at least for me, my
Speaker 1: phone is the one thing that I know I never
Speaker 1: am anywhere without and that wasn't true like maybe like
Speaker 1: ten years ago, like right, So it's amazing how attached
Speaker 1: we get and how reliant we get on technology and
Speaker 1: how ingrained it becomes in our lives.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny because you know, in the movies and
Speaker 2: books and things like that, when I was growing up,
Speaker 2: you think we're shown a cyborg and it was like
Speaker 2: the machine is part of the person, right, But it's
Speaker 2: not like that. But the point is it is a
Speaker 2: bit like it because we have our phones with us.
Speaker 2: Plus we may have an AI agent and you know,
Speaker 2: doing things for us. So it's like a different form
Speaker 2: of a cyborg that we were becoming.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh, it's it's very fascinating. And now the
Speaker 1: A agent maybe in the future is doing some you know,
Speaker 1: actions for you and like shopping for you or whatever
Speaker 1: it may be. There's people that use it for conversations,
Speaker 1: design conversations, emotional conversations. Like it's it is very fascinating
Speaker 1: how how people are adopting engaging and really and really
Speaker 1: kind of materializing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I have an eight year old daughter, so I've
Speaker 2: already started teaching her about blockchain, and I told her, like,
Speaker 2: there's some bitcoin here on a hardware wallet that's going
Speaker 2: in to save you know, when when you're eighteen, you
Speaker 2: can access it. Uh, things along those lines, like just
Speaker 2: teaching about AI and blockchain and all those things, because
Speaker 2: by the time she's an adult, it's gonna be even
Speaker 2: more prominent and you know, running behind the scenes. Oh
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Has she has she adopted like AI still? Has she
Speaker 1: gotten kind of familiarity with it? Or have you taught her?
Speaker 1: Are you teaching her kind of the components?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So some of it they're teaching in school. But
Speaker 2: I've been like highlighting like some of the AI services
Speaker 2: like a chat, GPT, certainly teaching about blockchain tech and
Speaker 2: things like that. So I quit her from time to time.
Speaker 2: That's awesome.
Speaker 1: I'm sure she does not love that, but that's okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, She's like, okay, dad, Yeah, this is what it is,
Speaker 2: and then she moves on.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you later, So thank you later.
Speaker 2: That's sure. Yeah, for sure. I know PayPal has been
Speaker 2: doing an incredible amount of initiatives around and I feel
Speaker 2: bad asking you this question because we went through so much.
Speaker 2: But what's on your roadmap for the remainder of year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we will. You'll continue to see us be pretty consistent,
Speaker 1: So we will be just driving down into more and
Speaker 1: more integrated experiences and the payments, so and just you know,
Speaker 1: figuring out how to ignite better more the experiences we have.
Speaker 1: So I think that's you know, and then of course
Speaker 1: any key kind of partnerships that may come to life,
Speaker 1: as you've seen a few that you've already mentioned today.
Speaker 1: So we hope to continue the momentum on all fronts,
Speaker 1: so from adoption to continued reach and distribution and really
Speaker 1: just bringing these use cases and utility to the world.
Speaker 2: There's something I forgot to ask you earlier, and it's
Speaker 2: about tokenization. So the tokenization market is heating up with
Speaker 2: stocks and equities and gold and other commodities being tokenized.
Speaker 2: It's PayPal looking into doing anything along those lines or
Speaker 2: integrating those assets once they become you know, fully mature
Speaker 2: so to speak, and there's infrastructure in place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at this time, we're still kind of focused on
Speaker 1: that earlier parts that I talked about, So it's just
Speaker 1: we already have pretty much a tokenized and so how
Speaker 1: do we take you know, how do we take the
Speaker 1: yosc How do we drive more experiences for people and
Speaker 1: integrate into PayPal. So it kind of goes back to
Speaker 1: our area of like when you're a when you're a
Speaker 1: small animal team, you got your resources, you've got to
Speaker 1: really double down and focus. Otherwise it's easy because like
Speaker 1: you said, you know, it changes a lot to encryption
Speaker 1: and there's so many things emerging that you have to
Speaker 1: like phase your approaches and what do you do first, second, third,
Speaker 1: and making sure you get some things right before you
Speaker 1: move on to the next and next thing. So it's
Speaker 1: definitely something we've thought about. It's something we because it
Speaker 1: is really really becoming pretty predominant to your point, on
Speaker 1: this area of it. But it's it doesn't mean we
Speaker 1: have to necessarily integrate it ourselves. It's how do you
Speaker 1: now partner or look at the different players and how
Speaker 1: could we become a settlement later, like you start to
Speaker 1: have different conversations. You don't need to build and own everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great point. And I know you guys are working
Speaker 2: with pakso so I immediately thought of packs, gold and
Speaker 2: you know things like that. But you know, crawl, walk, run,
Speaker 2: and I think you guys are doing an amazing job
Speaker 2: on the stable coin front, So I think maybe once
Speaker 2: that's ready, then you guys will branch out to other
Speaker 2: things maybe yeah, yeah, good stuff. May I didn't want
Speaker 2: to ask you about the Clarity Act. You know that's
Speaker 2: kind of stuck in Senate right now. But let's say
Speaker 2: we get it through this year or maybe early next year.
Speaker 2: What impact do you think that will have on the
Speaker 2: crypto industry.
Speaker 1: I think it's really like helps on kind of the
Speaker 1: tradinglative legislation front. So I think that look, the more
Speaker 1: not to pun the word here, but clarity, But the
Speaker 1: more clarity and the more like frameworks that we can
Speaker 1: provide the crypto industry, then the faster that the crypto
Speaker 1: industry will continue. I know, it feels like it may
Speaker 1: slow down in a sense because now there's regulation you
Speaker 1: got to like start applying and thinking about. But the
Speaker 1: reality is clarity and frameworks actually provide innovation to faster
Speaker 1: faster in certain cases. It's obviously depending on how and
Speaker 1: deep the regulation is, but that's what I think is
Speaker 1: very important. I think in the same way Genius helped
Speaker 1: on stable coins, I think Clarity will provide the same
Speaker 1: and so I think it's very important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm hoping Congress can get it done. It would
Speaker 2: be just a landmark moment similar to the Genius Act,
Speaker 2: and we could see more innovation and building. I got
Speaker 2: some wrap up questions here for you. First, if you
Speaker 2: could create your own metaverse, what would the theme be.
Speaker 1: Gosh, I'm a bit of a shopper, so it probably
Speaker 1: will involve shopping.
Speaker 2: And rapid fire questions.
Speaker 1: Favorite food I love Mediterranean food.
Speaker 2: Nice. A favorite musician or band.
Speaker 1: Wow, I love electronic kind of music, electronic chill music.
Speaker 1: So I'm varied within kind of where that falls in,
Speaker 1: but more as a genre.
Speaker 2: And favorite movie.
Speaker 1: Love Actually, it's probably the one that I watch every
Speaker 1: single Christmas, just because it just I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is, A very special one. Favorite book, Oh, that
Speaker 1: one's a tough one. Read White Owne might be one
Speaker 1: of one of the ones up there. Or the Alchemists
Speaker 1: from Pamaquilo actually, or the Petite Friends that's been since
Speaker 1: a childhood book of mine, so that might be the
Speaker 1: generation one that's lasted the most.
Speaker 2: And when you're not working, what are you doing for fun?
Speaker 1: I am catching up with friends. Yeah, catching up for friends.
Speaker 2: May pleasure chatting with you. I love what PayPal is doing.
Speaker 2: We're going to have to do round two. As PayPal
Speaker 2: continues to roll out new initiatives and services and much more,
Speaker 2: but thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Joan, it's so great to talk
Speaker 1: to you.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for tuning in. Please hit the
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Speaker 2: so much,