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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So this is something that Franklin Templeton has been

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<v Speaker 1>building Tony since twenty seventeen, so we really believed very

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<v Speaker 1>early in the potential of this space, and we've built

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<v Speaker 1>a stack that is capable of issuing and managing a token.

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<v Speaker 1>We've built a wallet system within that stack that is

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<v Speaker 1>KYCAML compliant, so a regulated wallet system.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by Uphold, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a great crypto platform that I've been using since twenty eighteen.

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<v Speaker 2>bitcoin and all coins. In fact, they have three hundred

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<v Speaker 2>plus cryptocurrencies on their platform, and they carry precious metals

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<v Speaker 2>I've never had any issues with them, and they are

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent reserve. You can review their transparency report.

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<v Speaker 2>our early access to new token listenings, and unlock exclusive

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<v Speaker 2>crypto insights and a support a variety of stable coins

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<v Speaker 2>such as p Y, USD that's PayPal stable Coins, Circles, USDC,

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<v Speaker 2>and USBC. They will be supporting Ripples's upcoming launch of

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<v Speaker 2>r l U s D. So this is a really

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<v Speaker 2>great rewards program and if you'd like to learn more,

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<v Speaker 2>please visit the link in the description. Welcome into the

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<v Speaker 2>Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host, Tony Edward, and my

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<v Speaker 2>guest today is Sandy Call who's the head of Innovation

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<v Speaker 2>Strategies at Franklin Templeton. Sandy, great to have you back on.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Tony. It's so good to be here with you.

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<v Speaker 2>Sandy. We spoke earlier in the year, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Franklin Templeton continues to develop a lot of great crypto products,

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of things around ETFs in tokenization, and of

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<v Speaker 2>course I have a lot of questions for you about

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<v Speaker 2>these latest developments. Let's start with a recent report you

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<v Speaker 2>put out, which was the Future of Investment for Investing

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty four slash twenty five edition.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So we do an annual survey, Tony, where we

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<v Speaker 1>talk to people engaged in the broad investment industry, all

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<v Speaker 1>over the world, So we talked to asset owners like

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<v Speaker 1>pensions and sovereign wealth funds and family offices and endowments.

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<v Speaker 1>We talked to intermediaries like private banks, wealth advisors, industry consultants.

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<v Speaker 1>We talked to a lot of asset managers, crypto asset managers,

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<v Speaker 1>traditional asset managers, alternative asset managers, and we talked to

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of fintech and academics. This year in our

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<v Speaker 1>survey we covered our interviewees represented more than fifty trillion

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<v Speaker 1>assets under management, so it's a pretty comprehensive survey we

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<v Speaker 1>come out with each year, and in this year's survey,

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<v Speaker 1>the big story is really about how we are starting

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<v Speaker 1>to see an acceleration of the adoption of crypto rails

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<v Speaker 1>into the traditional financial and capital markets ecosystem, and that

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<v Speaker 1>this is really upgrading the fifty year old infrastructure that

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<v Speaker 1>we've been working on, and it really talks about the

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<v Speaker 1>implications of us moving away from an account based system

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<v Speaker 1>where I might have a portfolio, and in essence it

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<v Speaker 1>might sound like a portfolio, but I might have five

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<v Speaker 1>or six or seven different funds that sit under that portfolio,

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<v Speaker 1>and each fund is in its own account and each

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<v Speaker 1>fund has its own accounting, Right, I'm going to move

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<v Speaker 1>away from that to a world where I have one

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<v Speaker 1>wallet and everything is going to be in my wallet,

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<v Speaker 1>and everything in that wallet becomes interoperable and leverageable, and

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<v Speaker 1>that is just going to mark a huge change in

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<v Speaker 1>how the system works and open up huge opportunities for investing.

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<v Speaker 2>So do you think we're at that tipping point of

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<v Speaker 2>It's kind of what you mentioned earlier. Folks are recognizing

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<v Speaker 2>this is the future. We need to get on board.

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<v Speaker 2>It's no longer a fad or stigma. There's not a

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<v Speaker 2>stigma around it. But how do we integrate blockchain into

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<v Speaker 2>our ecosystem, the way we do things and so forth?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it's I think what's really coming about

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<v Speaker 1>is a few things happening at once, right. I think that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the need to start thinking more seriously about

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<v Speaker 1>digital currencies, given the successive stable coins, the need to

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<v Speaker 1>really start to bring in some of the real innovations

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<v Speaker 1>that the crypto ecosystem introduced in terms of twenty four

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<v Speaker 1>to seven, trading, atomic settlement, programmable assets. These are things

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<v Speaker 1>that are really needed to take huge costs of the industry.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I think it's also this idea that we're

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<v Speaker 1>hitting the right regulatory moment. You know, we've seen sandboxes

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<v Speaker 1>launched in Hong Kong, in Dubai, in Singapore, in Europe,

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<v Speaker 1>in the UK. Now we are hearing that the DTCC

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<v Speaker 1>in the US is announcing a sandbox. We have this

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<v Speaker 1>change in administration coming in that's going to be more

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<v Speaker 1>crypto friendly. So I think it's the combination. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>combination of more digital money, the improvements and efficiencies and

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<v Speaker 1>cost savings that we can take in the industry because

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<v Speaker 1>of the new rails and the right regulatory environment, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's all coming together to create this acceleration

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<v Speaker 1>that we're going to see in this thinking and in

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<v Speaker 1>this rebuilding of the financial market infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, to your point, it seems like a perfect storm

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<v Speaker 2>that took place this year. If you told me maybe

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<v Speaker 2>back in October of last year, I wouldn't believe you

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<v Speaker 2>that any of these things would have happened. That we'd

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<v Speaker 2>have had the ETFs launch, Frankel, Templeton and other firms,

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<v Speaker 2>pro crypto President, pro Crypto Congress coming in. Crypto being

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<v Speaker 2>a ballid issue, maybe not the number one, but certainly

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<v Speaker 2>a valid issue I mean a complete one to eighty

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<v Speaker 2>from how things were last year.

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<v Speaker 1>It's incredible. I wrote a paper on bitcoin back in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty one, and one of the things we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about it is that one day we might hit a

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<v Speaker 1>point where people might consider bitcoin, you know, part of

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<v Speaker 1>a strategic reserve, right, And oh my goodness, some people

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<v Speaker 1>went crazy when we said that. It said never in

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<v Speaker 1>our lifetime, and here it is three years later, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And so it's kind of crazy when you think about

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<v Speaker 1>it that way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, Andy, I mean that must be amazing to be

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<v Speaker 2>validated in that way. You were ahead of the curve.

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<v Speaker 2>We have a bigcoin strategic reserve bill on the table,

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<v Speaker 2>a president who's ready to push it. You had states,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, just this morning was announced Texas wants to

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<v Speaker 2>do this, Alabama, a bunch of other states. I was

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<v Speaker 2>actually talking to Dennis Porter, the SATOCI Action Fund. He's

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<v Speaker 2>been leading this charge. It's amazing what's taking place.

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<v Speaker 1>Amazing. Yeah, it's so exciting too, because you know, you

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<v Speaker 1>don't often get to see innovation in action, Tony, So

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<v Speaker 1>this is awesome. I love it.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think with the United States taking this position

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<v Speaker 2>and saying, hey, we want this big cooin strategic reserve.

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<v Speaker 2>It's going to be a bit of game theory where

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<v Speaker 2>other countries are going to be paying attention. Okay, we

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<v Speaker 2>need to beat the US to this. Let's let's get going.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, there was already that leak that Russia's thinking about it, right,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I would not be surprised to see more

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<v Speaker 1>and more headlines right, Like, we could even start to

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<v Speaker 1>see central banks announcing that they're going to hold bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>as part of the reserve. So I don't know, it's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be very interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, twenty twenty five, very very interesting, and your report

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<v Speaker 2>very timely. I was reading through it, really great stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>I did want to ask you about Inkland Templeton's Benji

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<v Speaker 2>tokenization platform. Now, you guys launch on the edetherom network,

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<v Speaker 2>but maybe you start us off by telling us about

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<v Speaker 2>this platform and what's the mission there.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So this is something that Franklin Templeton has been

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<v Speaker 1>building Tony since twenty seventeen. So we really believed very

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<v Speaker 1>early in the potential of this space, and we've built

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<v Speaker 1>a stack that is capable of issuing and managing a token.

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<v Speaker 1>We've built a wallet system within that stack that is

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<v Speaker 1>KYCAML compliant. So a regulated wallet system, we manage the

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<v Speaker 1>keys in a secure location, a cold storage secure location

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<v Speaker 1>for all of those wallets, and then we are able

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<v Speaker 1>to do the transfer agency work so that you can

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<v Speaker 1>issue regulated funds via this network. So we're able to

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<v Speaker 1>do the subscriptions and the redemptions to the fund. We're

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<v Speaker 1>able to track the changes and shareholders. We're able to

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<v Speaker 1>apply and issue out yield and interest payments and corporate

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<v Speaker 1>actions all via this odd chain stack that we built,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're able to issue all of the regulatory reporting

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<v Speaker 1>that we need, and we're able to exchange within our

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<v Speaker 1>network any stable coin or really any digital asset and

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<v Speaker 1>move it directly into our tokenized money market funds that

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<v Speaker 1>provide yield. So this is a really comprehensive set of

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<v Speaker 1>technologies that we built, and now we have the right

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<v Speaker 1>regulatory permissions, you can transfer peer to peer within the network,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're really now starting to find lots of demand

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<v Speaker 1>and ways to deploy this, which is giving us an

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity to really manage the assets that back A lot

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<v Speaker 1>of these stable coins or back are looking for the

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<v Speaker 1>yield potential in our tokenized money market fund product. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's a very exciting time for us, because we've been

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<v Speaker 1>working for a long time in this system is now

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<v Speaker 1>fully deployed, and we're really the only asset manager who

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<v Speaker 1>is actually providing true exposure to our money market fund

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<v Speaker 1>in a wallet. In your own wallet, you hold that token, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And this is not something that you know. There's other

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<v Speaker 1>tokenized money market funds out there being offered, but they're

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<v Speaker 1>not registered funds that can be held in your wallet, right,

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<v Speaker 1>They're more kind of shareholder records.

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<v Speaker 2>That's amazing. And I noticed that you're chain agnostics. So

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<v Speaker 2>you started with Stellared and Polygon, I believe, app doos, Avalanche,

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<v Speaker 2>Arbitrum and now etherorem Base as well, and which one

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, Base as well? Oh Base, that's Ray. So

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<v Speaker 2>welcomes through a bit of the process. Let's say I'm

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<v Speaker 2>an institution. I want to leverage your tokenization platform. Can

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<v Speaker 2>I choose which chains or select a few or on

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<v Speaker 2>all of them? Because I want to have interoperability.

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<v Speaker 1>So when you're set up in our system, Tonny, you

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<v Speaker 1>have a wallet on every one of those chains. So

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to transfer your holdings from you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the Ethereum chain to you know, the Stellar chain, you

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<v Speaker 1>can simply instruct that in our app, and you could

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<v Speaker 1>move those assets within our secure environment. They're never exposed,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, to any type of bridge or cross chain transfer.

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<v Speaker 1>It's all happening within our system. You're just basically moving

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<v Speaker 1>it from one of your wallets to another.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's permission and you have pretty much full control.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not open to you know, general public, so to speak. Yeah. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to sound bearish or anything I get,

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<v Speaker 2>but let's say one of these blockchains fails, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>because not every blockchain will be a winner. What happens

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<v Speaker 2>in that case are the respective token I shares burned.

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<v Speaker 1>So we have the record of every share we issue

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<v Speaker 1>and every owner of that share. And so one of

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<v Speaker 1>the requirements that we built into the system to satisfy

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<v Speaker 1>the sec was that we could reconstruct the the exposure,

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<v Speaker 1>so we would burn tokens that we're on that chain

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<v Speaker 1>and reissue you that equivalent amount of tokens on another

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<v Speaker 1>chain of your choice.

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<v Speaker 2>And are these tokenized shares, are they available globally or

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<v Speaker 2>is it restricted to certain markets.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a great question. So you know, right now with

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<v Speaker 1>the FOBXX tokenized US Government Money Market Fund, that's a

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<v Speaker 1>forty fund, so that has only been available to US investors.

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<v Speaker 1>We are soon going to be launching and we've announced

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<v Speaker 1>this already a Luxembourg based use It's fund SEECAB fund

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<v Speaker 1>that is therefore going to open that up investors from

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<v Speaker 1>I believe it's twenty additional countries are now going to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to purchase and utilize those tokens because it's

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<v Speaker 1>in the next rapper. Its same product, just a different

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<v Speaker 1>product rapper, and we will soon be at a point

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<v Speaker 1>where we can have anyone in the globe able to

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<v Speaker 1>purchase the money market fund that aligns to what they

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<v Speaker 1>need to subscribe to from their regulatory jurisdiction.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow. I want to explore that a bit because I've

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<v Speaker 2>been thinking a lot about these things. In a traditional sense,

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<v Speaker 2>let's say you have a money market fund. It's not

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<v Speaker 2>accessible to everybody in the world, and there's certain restrictions

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<v Speaker 2>and every country almost has its own SEC and so forth.

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<v Speaker 2>But in a tokenized format, it's twenty four to seven

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<v Speaker 2>and opens it up to everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, we had to do a lot of engineering to

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<v Speaker 1>open it up to everybody, right, So we've had to

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<v Speaker 1>launch all these versions of the fund so that you

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<v Speaker 1>can get that exposure anywhere in the world. We're working

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<v Speaker 1>on making and we have in some instances, made that

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<v Speaker 1>accessible twenty four to seven. We're working on making that

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<v Speaker 1>a universal set of functionality, but you know, it hasn't existed,

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<v Speaker 1>so we're having to build it. And you know, when

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<v Speaker 1>you start working with an entire set of global regulators,

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<v Speaker 1>things don't always move as quickly as you hope, but

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<v Speaker 1>they are moving. And you know, our years and years

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<v Speaker 1>of effort here are really starting to pay off now.

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<v Speaker 2>And how does that change your business management in the

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<v Speaker 2>sense of the twenty four to seven aspect, because well,

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<v Speaker 2>you're sleeping someone else is treating it right unlike anything

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<v Speaker 2>we've seen before. Because the stock market has an opening

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<v Speaker 2>and closing a close belt, you have weekends, you have

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<v Speaker 2>holidays and so forth. How does this change your business model?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, so this is where we're really fortunate in

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<v Speaker 1>doing this. As a global firm. We already run operations.

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<v Speaker 1>We have a follow the Sun model, so there is

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<v Speaker 1>always an operations team available from our Broad Franklin Templeton franchise.

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<v Speaker 1>So this is where we're able to use the innovation

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<v Speaker 1>of our digital asset unit and begin to really leverage

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<v Speaker 1>off of the really expansive capabilities that we've built as

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<v Speaker 1>a one point six trillion dollar asset manager.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, going back to the fob xx, that's the on

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<v Speaker 2>chain US Government money market fund, it's on base. What's

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<v Speaker 2>the current AUM and also tell us about the USDC

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<v Speaker 2>stable coin being being able to use that as an

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<v Speaker 2>on and off ramp.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so we're just at about I think the last

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<v Speaker 1>time I saw, we were about four hundred and fifty

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<v Speaker 1>million AUM in our tokenized fobxx product. And we have

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<v Speaker 1>built this exchange, this cash exchange facility within our Benji stack.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you had stable coins, if you had USDC,

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<v Speaker 1>you had another stable coin that you wanted to exchange

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<v Speaker 1>and get that swept into our Benji product, we have

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<v Speaker 1>that facility built in. Now there is a tiny leg

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<v Speaker 1>of custody that happens in the middle of that transaction,

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<v Speaker 1>and we work with a digital custodian to make that happen.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's seconds right. It feels to you as the

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<v Speaker 1>end user that is happening seamlessly. If you really look

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<v Speaker 1>at the mechanics of how it's happening. The stable coin

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<v Speaker 1>is being redeemed, the cash is being reinvested and it's

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<v Speaker 1>being put into the money market fund. But that happens

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<v Speaker 1>in such a short window that it feels like a

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<v Speaker 1>seamless transaction.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh for sure, Now city the stable coined wars are happening.

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<v Speaker 2>There's so many issues. Yeah, like Ripple's going to launch

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<v Speaker 2>earl USD, PayPal has p y USC. Of course, Tether

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<v Speaker 2>the world's largest stable coin, is sure. And then I

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<v Speaker 2>was talking to the folks at Agra Benek and they

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<v Speaker 2>launch AUSD. Are you playing to open up support for

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<v Speaker 2>all these other stable coins or are you going to

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<v Speaker 2>be kind of selective like USDC and maybe some of

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<v Speaker 2>the others.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well, the facility we built can take any digital asset,

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<v Speaker 1>including a crypto asset, right, so you know, the it

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<v Speaker 1>really is going to come down to a manner of demand.

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<v Speaker 1>Right when we start to see demand emerge to move

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<v Speaker 1>from a stable coin into our tokenized money market fund,

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<v Speaker 1>will activate that. We'll get the right arrangements set up

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<v Speaker 1>and we'll be able to do that. So we built

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<v Speaker 1>a coin agnostic exchange facility, and I think that's what's

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<v Speaker 1>going to really be helping us in being able to

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<v Speaker 1>be you know, just like we're doing across blockchains. We

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to have to have only one or two

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<v Speaker 1>preferred stable coin providers. We think that stable coins are

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<v Speaker 1>going to explode, that many organizations are going to issue them,

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<v Speaker 1>so we want to be interoperable with all of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, I love that. I love that you guys are

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<v Speaker 2>chaining agnostic, asset agnostic. That's really incredible. Tell us a

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<v Speaker 2>bit about the institutions who are using your tokenization platform.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure folks want to know who's doing this, who's

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<v Speaker 2>who's looking to tokenize, and so forth.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so there's a whole mix of folks, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's really interesting. Right. So we've got, you know, we've

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<v Speaker 1>got a number of you know, venture capital funds that

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<v Speaker 1>have basically portfolio companies that they need to fund over time. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So they don't release all that funding in one go

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<v Speaker 1>to their portfolio companies. They release that in stages, and

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<v Speaker 1>so they're managing that pool of capital and the managing

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<v Speaker 1>the distribution of funds of that capital to their portfolio company.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's one type of institution. Similarly, we're starting to

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<v Speaker 1>see interest from treasuries, right, corporate treasuries, institutional treasuries, crypto

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<v Speaker 1>treasuries where they might have multiple jurisdictional legal entities that

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<v Speaker 1>they need to move cash between. We're seeing that emerge

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<v Speaker 1>as a really interesting use case as well. We're really

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<v Speaker 1>starting to see interest from many hedge funds and interests,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, from many trading counterparties who want yield from

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the overnight reserves they're holding, or want yield

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<v Speaker 1>from the collateral they're posting. Right. This is another big

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<v Speaker 1>use case that we've been seeing, and people who are

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<v Speaker 1>doing lending are looking for opportunities to have a collateral

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<v Speaker 1>backing that also pays yield rather than just holding a

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<v Speaker 1>stable point that doesn't pay any yield. So you're starting

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<v Speaker 1>to see a bunch of different use cases emerging that

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<v Speaker 1>all really represent new ways of engaging in business that

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<v Speaker 1>provide real edges in terms of either cutting time to

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<v Speaker 1>get payments distributed, cutting costs, making it more efficient from

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<v Speaker 1>a collateral perspective, bringing in some of the real positive

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<v Speaker 1>things from traditional finance into the new crypto ecosystem in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of being able to apply yield on collateral. So

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<v Speaker 1>these are all I think great use cases that we've

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<v Speaker 1>been really uncovering and working with our clients on.

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<v Speaker 2>And as we head into twenty twenty five, do you

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<v Speaker 2>expect these activities to increase, that more firms will come

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<v Speaker 2>into place? And it's made I don't know if this

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<v Speaker 2>question makes since with the push towards tokenization, is there

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<v Speaker 2>any middleman being cut out here? Is there any disruption

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<v Speaker 2>of any entities who may have been part of the

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<v Speaker 2>whole system before.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think that, you know, let me answer that

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<v Speaker 1>in two ways. I think that twenty twenty four has

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<v Speaker 1>been a real year of building for us because, as

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned, we've been expanding across multiple geography, so we've

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<v Speaker 1>needed to work with many sets of regulators. We've been

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<v Speaker 1>launching new products, we've been building out across many chains, right,

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<v Speaker 1>so we've been really spending a bulk of our twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty four getting the base in place for what we

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<v Speaker 1>expect to be a very very active and twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five where we really see utilization of all these capabilities surge.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I think that, you know, we've been really

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<v Speaker 1>prepping and getting everything in place for this now not

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<v Speaker 1>to be a novelty off to the side, but to

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<v Speaker 1>become a core business of what we do. I think

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<v Speaker 1>at the same time, you know, there's many intermediaries that

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<v Speaker 1>see potential issues with this new set of rails threatening

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<v Speaker 1>their core business model. And you know, the more innovative

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<v Speaker 1>and creative of those entities have been very engaged in

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<v Speaker 1>thinking about how can they too evolve with the evolving ecosystem.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I think there will be a set of

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<v Speaker 1>them that are able to you know, adapt their business

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<v Speaker 1>model become really successful in the new world. But there's

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<v Speaker 1>probably also going to be a set that wait too long,

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<v Speaker 1>or don't act fast, or don't act creatively enough or

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<v Speaker 1>fast enough, and they may find that their business model

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<v Speaker 1>is under threat. So as this whole kind of new

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<v Speaker 1>set of engagement and trading and collateral opportunities open up, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that, you know, you're going to really start

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<v Speaker 1>to see who are the winners and who are the losers.

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<v Speaker 2>It's fascinating to watch that play out. I'm a I'm

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<v Speaker 2>big into history and a study technology, and I've watched

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<v Speaker 2>disruption happen through the internet, the growth of the Internet,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's fascinating. I think the same thing is happening here.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, a blockchain.

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<v Speaker 1>The history major myself, Tony history major myself.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, because there's a good and a bad

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<v Speaker 2>to that, you know, because you know, you see companies

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<v Speaker 2>go out of business. But that's just the nature of

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<v Speaker 2>the business cycle and technology and the history of how

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<v Speaker 2>we progress as humans civilization. So it's interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>It's unless you have to have that as the threat,

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<v Speaker 1>because otherwise, you know, there's not that incentive to innovate, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So you need that incentive to innovate.

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<v Speaker 2>That's true. Let's talk about the ETFs. So Franklin Templeton

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<v Speaker 2>of course has a big one in ethere and metfs.

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<v Speaker 2>What we've seen though, overall, for all the ETFs out there,

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<v Speaker 2>incredible inflows. I mean, Sandy, I'm blown away, and I'm

385
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<v Speaker 2>like where this thing is going really fast, is really rapid,

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<v Speaker 2>and i know, like collectively all the ETFs are going

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<v Speaker 2>to surpass Stoshi if they haven't already. What are your

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<v Speaker 2>thoughts on the success of the et aps.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think it's just showing that there's huge demand

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to participate in these new marketplaces. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, because it's been such a different way of

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<v Speaker 1>obtaining exposure, a lot of people who don't have confidence

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00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:27.960
<v Speaker 1>in their ability to use these new technologies have had

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<v Speaker 1>a hunger to invest but haven't really understood or gotten

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<v Speaker 1>themselves comfortable with investing in the options that had been available.

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<v Speaker 1>And now that this isn't a familiar ETF wrapper, I

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00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:42.920
<v Speaker 1>can go into it via my brokerage account, I can

398
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:44.599
<v Speaker 1>put it in an order for it, I can ask

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<v Speaker 1>my advisor to buy it for me. Right. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that this is really showing how much untapped demand there

401
00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:54.400
<v Speaker 1>has been. And I still think we're really just at

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<v Speaker 1>the very very beginning stages of it, right, And I

403
00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:01.880
<v Speaker 1>think that we have I hate to say this with

404
00:24:01.960 --> 00:24:05.039
<v Speaker 1>the success that we've already had, but I can honestly say,

405
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:07.359
<v Speaker 1>I don't think you've seen anything yet, right, Like, this

406
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:11.559
<v Speaker 1>is really probably going to be just the beginning, and

407
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:15.920
<v Speaker 1>I think it's going to really progress very quickly and

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<v Speaker 1>become an absolutely standard part of everyone's portfolio. Probably within

409
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:22.200
<v Speaker 1>five years, we'll kind of look back and say, Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>was it ever controversial that you held crypto in your portfolio?

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<v Speaker 1>When was that? Right? I do think we're moving towards

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<v Speaker 1>that day, and I think these ETFs are really helping

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<v Speaker 1>pave the way for that, because it's allowing the public

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00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:41.279
<v Speaker 1>at large who don't feel comfortable getting into crypto technologies

415
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:44.000
<v Speaker 1>to participate, right. You know, there's a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>my age and older that like never quite got super

417
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:51.359
<v Speaker 1>comfortable with social media, yet we still participate in the

418
00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.359
<v Speaker 1>online world. This is the way I think that you're

419
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:57.880
<v Speaker 1>seeing a broader and broader part of the population really

420
00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:02.359
<v Speaker 1>be brought into the innovation that's happening in the crypto ecosystem.

421
00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:04.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, put and I know a lot of people

422
00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:08.640
<v Speaker 2>are intimidated by private keys and storage of that, and

423
00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:11.240
<v Speaker 2>if I lose it, I lose my crypto. So ETFs

424
00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:13.799
<v Speaker 2>put all those worries to bed, and it just makes.

425
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:15.240
<v Speaker 1>It exactly yep.

426
00:25:16.319 --> 00:25:19.279
<v Speaker 2>What do you think is driving the appetite for this

427
00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:22.279
<v Speaker 2>acid class? And one of the things I keep thinking

428
00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:24.440
<v Speaker 2>about is like what Paul Tudor Jones said, I think

429
00:25:24.519 --> 00:25:28.079
<v Speaker 2>back in twenty twenty where you said bitcoin and crypto

430
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:30.039
<v Speaker 2>is the fastest horse in the race. Yes, you can

431
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:32.640
<v Speaker 2>invest in real estate in the stock market, but nothing

432
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:37.880
<v Speaker 2>moves like crypto. And maybe it's the global reach, the

433
00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:43.039
<v Speaker 2>hardcap supply on many of these tokens, and that it is.

434
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:46.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, we've seen tech eat a lot of industries

435
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:49.799
<v Speaker 2>and suck them in. So maybe bitcoin in the etherorem

436
00:25:49.839 --> 00:25:52.079
<v Speaker 2>and so forth because of tokenization all these things is

437
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:55.119
<v Speaker 2>sucking in the traditional assets on top of it. I

438
00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:57.160
<v Speaker 2>don't know, do you think it's a combination all these things.

439
00:25:57.720 --> 00:25:59.880
<v Speaker 1>I think it's all those things. And I think, honestly,

440
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:05.920
<v Speaker 1>you know, there's a growing frustration, particularly here, I think

441
00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:08.000
<v Speaker 1>in the US and in many of the big developed

442
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:13.279
<v Speaker 1>nations about the opportunities that are available in the traditional markets. Right.

443
00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:15.519
<v Speaker 1>If you look in the US, we have seen the

444
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:21.920
<v Speaker 1>number of publicly listed companies confect by almost seventy five

445
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:25.599
<v Speaker 1>percent since the nineteen nineties. Right, There's simply not as

446
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:29.079
<v Speaker 1>many public companies out there. A lot of that growth

447
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:32.359
<v Speaker 1>opportunity has moved into the private equity markets, and most

448
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:36.079
<v Speaker 1>individuals are excluded from the private equity markets. And so

449
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:40.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, where is the small cap stock that you

450
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:43.440
<v Speaker 1>could buy twenty five years ago and own until it

451
00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:47.279
<v Speaker 1>became a megacap and make a fortune owning that security.

452
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:50.680
<v Speaker 1>There's not as many of those opportunities out there for

453
00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:54.480
<v Speaker 1>today's investors, particularly young investors that don't have a lot

454
00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:57.720
<v Speaker 1>of money to invest. And so I think that these

455
00:26:57.799 --> 00:27:02.039
<v Speaker 1>crypto tokens and this new crypt dough ecosystem, it's almost

456
00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:06.480
<v Speaker 1>like a twenty first century investment option. And I think

457
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:09.640
<v Speaker 1>that we've seen the world change so much. There's many

458
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:12.759
<v Speaker 1>I think who have a sentiment of I don't see

459
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:16.119
<v Speaker 1>as many opportunities in the equity markets, and I kind

460
00:27:16.119 --> 00:27:19.079
<v Speaker 1>of think of that as like the baby boomers investments,

461
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:23.319
<v Speaker 1>and I want an investment to feel more in tune

462
00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:26.000
<v Speaker 1>with the world where it's heading today and where it's going.

463
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:30.400
<v Speaker 1>So I think that there's also this appetite for something

464
00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:34.480
<v Speaker 1>that again democratizes and brings a broader set of the

465
00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:39.359
<v Speaker 1>population into this ability to really invest money and potentially

466
00:27:39.400 --> 00:27:42.519
<v Speaker 1>get rich. And you know, I think that that's kind

467
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:45.640
<v Speaker 1>of I think what Paul Tudor Jones got to in

468
00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:49.319
<v Speaker 1>that statement, But I think it's more foundational than that.

469
00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:53.960
<v Speaker 1>It's about this democratization and it's about kind of taking

470
00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:57.400
<v Speaker 1>back I think some of this potential that has gone

471
00:27:57.640 --> 00:28:00.279
<v Speaker 1>to the institutions and to the ultra wealthy and has

472
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:03.880
<v Speaker 1>kindind of moved away in many instances from the average individual.

473
00:28:05.680 --> 00:28:07.400
<v Speaker 2>I think you hit the nail on the head there,

474
00:28:07.480 --> 00:28:10.319
<v Speaker 2>because it's also in line with the sentiment that many

475
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:14.000
<v Speaker 2>people are feeling about I can't afford a home. It's

476
00:28:14.119 --> 00:28:17.920
<v Speaker 2>the American dream that seems so far from me, I

477
00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:20.759
<v Speaker 2>don't care about bonds, and the bonds have not performed

478
00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:23.680
<v Speaker 2>that well gold, like you said, it seems like a

479
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:28.039
<v Speaker 2>boomer asset. And then the stock market, well, yeah, I

480
00:28:28.079 --> 00:28:30.240
<v Speaker 2>get some tesla, I get a little bit of a video,

481
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.039
<v Speaker 2>whatever it may be. They're just there's not that broader

482
00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:37.079
<v Speaker 2>appeal and like the smaller companies where it seems affordable.

483
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:40.279
<v Speaker 2>But I can put it a fraction into ethereum or

484
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:44.599
<v Speaker 2>bigcoin or some other all coin and do better based

485
00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:45.079
<v Speaker 2>on and.

486
00:28:45.079 --> 00:28:48.119
<v Speaker 1>I could do it myself. Right, So I think there's

487
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.200
<v Speaker 1>a real appeal in that too, is that I'm not

488
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:53.799
<v Speaker 1>being forced to go and open these accounts and talk

489
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:57.920
<v Speaker 1>to these intermediaries and right, I mean I think that,

490
00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:02.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, people are so independent in today's world and

491
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:06.279
<v Speaker 1>so enabled by technology, and I feel like these investments

492
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:09.119
<v Speaker 1>really fit with the life that people live today.

493
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I'll give it an anecdotal evidence of from

494
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:18.000
<v Speaker 2>from my personal experience. You know, I think before the Internet,

495
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.880
<v Speaker 2>I would not have understand investing. There was no trading

496
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:23.079
<v Speaker 2>view where I can go look at charts and understand

497
00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:26.200
<v Speaker 2>what's happening and even get financial data. I can go

498
00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:28.440
<v Speaker 2>to the Fed's website CEE to M two money supply.

499
00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:30.920
<v Speaker 2>You can see a lot of things now and it's

500
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.480
<v Speaker 2>available to everybody, so we have more education. To your point,

501
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:38.240
<v Speaker 2>I can watch someone like you, Sandy on YouTube, where

502
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:42.359
<v Speaker 2>before I could or listen to you on that because

503
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:46.119
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't get access to you before. It was gatekeepers right,

504
00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:48.680
<v Speaker 2>and I couldn't walk into Franklin Temple and say, hey,

505
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:51.000
<v Speaker 2>I want to spend an hour with Sandy and have

506
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:53.319
<v Speaker 2>her teach me about these things. So it's a very

507
00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:54.000
<v Speaker 2>different world.

508
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:56.799
<v Speaker 1>It's a different world, and I think that you know,

509
00:29:57.759 --> 00:30:00.559
<v Speaker 1>it's a world where people want to feel they have

510
00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:06.000
<v Speaker 1>knowledge and control and an ability to take a hand

511
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:08.079
<v Speaker 1>and shape their own fate. And I think that's what

512
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:11.680
<v Speaker 1>this new ecosystem is really well suited to do. It's

513
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:16.279
<v Speaker 1>capturing I think a populism in how you act and

514
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:20.160
<v Speaker 1>how you behave that's just not available in a lot

515
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:22.240
<v Speaker 1>of aspects of people's lives.

516
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:27.279
<v Speaker 2>I want to ask you about the Crypto Index ETF.

517
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:29.640
<v Speaker 2>So you guys filed for that bigcoin and e theorem.

518
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:32.240
<v Speaker 2>I think the SEC pushed it back to January. We

519
00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:34.920
<v Speaker 2>know there's a regime change taking place. We got Paul

520
00:30:35.000 --> 00:30:39.759
<v Speaker 2>Atkins coming in. We know has been pro crypto, pro crypto,

521
00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:43.400
<v Speaker 2>new government coming in. What do you expect that ETF

522
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:45.759
<v Speaker 2>to get approved and other all coin ETFs to get

523
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:46.799
<v Speaker 2>approved next year?

524
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Well, so you know, I'm not allowed to speak

525
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:51.720
<v Speaker 1>directly about anything we have a filing on, but let

526
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:54.000
<v Speaker 1>me make the case for why I think a multi

527
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:58.839
<v Speaker 1>coin ETF is so important. You know, we have seen

528
00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:02.319
<v Speaker 1>so you just because we're creating this exciting new world

529
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:04.920
<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean we could throw out all the lessons that

530
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:08.519
<v Speaker 1>we have learned through one hundred two hundred years of

531
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:11.759
<v Speaker 1>financial history. And I think one of the most important

532
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:16.799
<v Speaker 1>things we've learned is you don't want single asset exposure, right.

533
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:19.759
<v Speaker 1>You know, you don't go and you're not having you know,

534
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:25.119
<v Speaker 1>a Navidia ETF. You have QQQ, right, So you want

535
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:30.680
<v Speaker 1>this diversification that comes by spreading your investment across multiple

536
00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:36.799
<v Speaker 1>assets and the registration that we're looking to get. You know,

537
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.160
<v Speaker 1>it would start out with ethereum and bitcoin, but it

538
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:43.000
<v Speaker 1>would be an index product that would grow based on

539
00:31:43.039 --> 00:31:47.920
<v Speaker 1>the market capitalization of the underlying token, so that you

540
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:52.119
<v Speaker 1>get as the end, as the ecosystem itself gets diversified,

541
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:56.839
<v Speaker 1>your exposure gets diversified, and that's the flexibility that I

542
00:31:56.839 --> 00:31:59.359
<v Speaker 1>think we're going to start to see. There's always a

543
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:02.160
<v Speaker 1>lot of enthusiasm when someone says, oh, I'm filing for

544
00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:05.759
<v Speaker 1>this ETF or that ETF, but they've all been single

545
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:10.359
<v Speaker 1>asset ETFs, and we still feel like the need is

546
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:16.039
<v Speaker 1>to go towards diversified portfolio exposure. It's safer for the investor,

547
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:20.400
<v Speaker 1>it's better in the long run from performance perspective, it

548
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:24.599
<v Speaker 1>gives you more protection against unexpected news or problems. So

549
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:27.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, that's our thinking there is we want to

550
00:32:27.559 --> 00:32:30.359
<v Speaker 1>take our learnings by being one of the most successful

551
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:35.680
<v Speaker 1>traditional financial market asset managers and bring that into this

552
00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:38.880
<v Speaker 1>new ecosystem by starting to create this and we have

553
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:44.000
<v Speaker 1>been running model portfolios for over three years multi coin portfolios.

554
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:48.000
<v Speaker 1>In fact, our first multi coin portfolio just passed its

555
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:50.920
<v Speaker 1>three year anniversary and the average churn has been over

556
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.079
<v Speaker 1>sixty five percent, So that's a pretty good return when

557
00:32:54.079 --> 00:32:57.160
<v Speaker 1>you're talking a multi coin portfolios. So we want to

558
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:00.559
<v Speaker 1>be able to really think about bringing that x bertise

559
00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:03.960
<v Speaker 1>into the ETF wrapper over time.

560
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:07.559
<v Speaker 2>And do you anticipate that once there's more clarity, you

561
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.359
<v Speaker 2>may add other coins in the top ten like your XRP,

562
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:11.759
<v Speaker 2>Soalonas and so forth.

563
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Exactly.

564
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:19.799
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting. You know, I agree with the your thoughts

565
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:23.160
<v Speaker 2>on the index ETF because I'm thinking about not myself

566
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:26.160
<v Speaker 2>because I'm fully in the crypto, but the average Joe

567
00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:28.720
<v Speaker 2>and Jane. Yeah, just give me the top five or

568
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:30.640
<v Speaker 2>a top ten, right, makes it?

569
00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:33.559
<v Speaker 1>Yea, Just let me have exposure. I don't I don't

570
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:35.279
<v Speaker 1>really know much about it. I don't want to have

571
00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:37.960
<v Speaker 1>to pick. Just let me have what is a good exposure,

572
00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:39.119
<v Speaker 1>right m.

573
00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:42.440
<v Speaker 2>M yeah, yeah, that definitely makes sense. I think that

574
00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:45.160
<v Speaker 2>will help usher in a lot more investors that they

575
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:47.200
<v Speaker 2>don't have to pick or choose. Just hey, just give

576
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:47.880
<v Speaker 2>me exposure.

577
00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:48.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

578
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:53.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I would love to get your thoughts on if

579
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:56.160
<v Speaker 2>you're able to talk about it. But like the upcoming

580
00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:59.920
<v Speaker 2>government and you know, could we see crypto legislation push

581
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:03.240
<v Speaker 2>to send it like we mentioned earlier, Paul Atkins coming

582
00:34:03.240 --> 00:34:06.160
<v Speaker 2>in at the SEC. You got a Treasury Secretary's going

583
00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:07.440
<v Speaker 2>to be pro crypto and so forth.

584
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:11.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think you know, look, it's been one hundred

585
00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:14.519
<v Speaker 1>signal so you know, if we take the signals at

586
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:17.440
<v Speaker 1>their phase value, which I think we should, right that

587
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:20.719
<v Speaker 1>this is going to be a very pro crypto administration

588
00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:25.760
<v Speaker 1>in the US, and you know how quickly they can act. Well,

589
00:34:26.360 --> 00:34:29.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, we see how quickly bills get passed in Congress,

590
00:34:29.599 --> 00:34:32.280
<v Speaker 1>So you know, I think some of our enthusiasm has

591
00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:35.119
<v Speaker 1>to be tempered by the sausage making, as they call it.

592
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:38.920
<v Speaker 1>But I think that the tent is there, and I

593
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:42.320
<v Speaker 1>think that you know, there will be a lot of

594
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:47.239
<v Speaker 1>openness to the right messages, right like when we talk

595
00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:53.360
<v Speaker 1>about the opportunities for individuals, the ability to provide more

596
00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:58.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, democratized access, the ability to do this in

597
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:02.119
<v Speaker 1>a way and help regulators understand that, you know, tracking

598
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:05.480
<v Speaker 1>assets on blockchain is actually more effective than the way

599
00:35:05.519 --> 00:35:09.320
<v Speaker 1>that they've been tracking traditional security. So a lot of

600
00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:12.480
<v Speaker 1>arguments that people have been making that are very true

601
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:16.920
<v Speaker 1>and very important, arguments that have had trouble breaking through,

602
00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:20.880
<v Speaker 1>I think will now have a much warmer reception and

603
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:23.760
<v Speaker 1>that will help, I think, open up a lot of doors,

604
00:35:24.400 --> 00:35:27.599
<v Speaker 1>and I think you'll see rapid progress. And you know,

605
00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:30.559
<v Speaker 1>once the US starts moving quickly, you know the rest

606
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:33.400
<v Speaker 1>of the world will accelerate as well, because no one

607
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:35.800
<v Speaker 1>wants to lose the edge that they've been trying to build.

608
00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:38.840
<v Speaker 1>While the US has been slow, so it feels like

609
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:42.559
<v Speaker 1>we're just really getting ready for takeoff. That's kind of

610
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:45.920
<v Speaker 1>what I think the sentiment feels right now. And you know,

611
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:48.199
<v Speaker 1>it may take a few more months than people think

612
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:50.519
<v Speaker 1>it's going to take, but I see it as a

613
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:53.800
<v Speaker 1>very positive direction. And I think twenty twenty five will

614
00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:57.360
<v Speaker 1>be remembered as the year of crypto, to be honest

615
00:35:57.400 --> 00:35:59.039
<v Speaker 1>with you, Wow.

616
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:03.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well uh. And I think even just the the

617
00:36:03.840 --> 00:36:08.320
<v Speaker 2>end of regulation by enforcement and that fear environment, even

618
00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:10.599
<v Speaker 2>if they, like you said, Congress doesn't even get to

619
00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:13.679
<v Speaker 2>push the bill through, just the end of that and more,

620
00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.920
<v Speaker 2>even if they're neutral, like we're not we're not trying

621
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:20.559
<v Speaker 2>to kill you or stop you, right, We're just gonna okay,

622
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:22.880
<v Speaker 2>come in and talk to us. Let's let's get things going.

623
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:26.519
<v Speaker 2>It may move slower because the government, but just that environment,

624
00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:27.599
<v Speaker 2>we so much better.

625
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And I think it's also it's it's the underlying message.

626
00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:36.280
<v Speaker 1>Right when when it was enforcement by you know, registrate,

627
00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:40.159
<v Speaker 1>regulation by enforcement, the message was you're doing something bad

628
00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:43.400
<v Speaker 1>and we're going to catch you. And now I'm hoping

629
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:46.000
<v Speaker 1>and I think that we will see the message turn

630
00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:48.800
<v Speaker 1>into we're excited about what you're doing, let's do it

631
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:49.960
<v Speaker 1>in a responsible way.

632
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:53.920
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm. Yeah, it's twenty twenty five. I'm excited. It's good,

633
00:36:54.599 --> 00:36:59.159
<v Speaker 2>fascinating to watch it unfold because it's so funny. You see,

634
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:02.199
<v Speaker 2>President Electron I'm constantly talking about Crypto now, and I

635
00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:03.679
<v Speaker 2>think just this morning he was at the New York

636
00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:06.639
<v Speaker 2>Stock Exchange. I don't remember. I think he was ringing

637
00:37:06.679 --> 00:37:08.760
<v Speaker 2>the bell and then he was asked by Jim Kramer

638
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:12.000
<v Speaker 2>by Crypto and it's it's amazing. Like I said, if

639
00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:14.360
<v Speaker 2>you told me this a year ago, in twenty twenty three,

640
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:15.599
<v Speaker 2>I would not have believed you.

641
00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:21.039
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, never underestigate how bizarre reality could become donated.

642
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:24.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, you mentioned something and it's something I've

643
00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:27.360
<v Speaker 2>been talking to people about. You know, if the government

644
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:30.360
<v Speaker 2>was running on blockchain, how much more efficient it could

645
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:35.000
<v Speaker 2>be and accountability, where's our funds going, where's this spending?

646
00:37:35.480 --> 00:37:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Putting voting system with blockchain in place? Do you think

647
00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:41.079
<v Speaker 2>we will eventually get there? I know it probably won't

648
00:37:41.079 --> 00:37:43.199
<v Speaker 2>happen anytime soon, but maybe in ten years we see

649
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:44.519
<v Speaker 2>all this stuff running on blockchain.

650
00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:49.679
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, just take voting as the simplest

651
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:52.599
<v Speaker 1>thing of all, like everybody is so freaked out that

652
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:55.039
<v Speaker 1>there's gonna be all this fraud in voting and who's

653
00:37:55.079 --> 00:37:57.679
<v Speaker 1>a registered voter and who's not, and who's a legal

654
00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:01.320
<v Speaker 1>voter and who's not just voting a loan. Could you

655
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:03.840
<v Speaker 1>imagine if the voting records were on Boxedin, it would

656
00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:07.079
<v Speaker 1>become completely clear you're either registered or you're not right.

657
00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:09.239
<v Speaker 1>And I think that you know, or you think about

658
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:12.679
<v Speaker 1>your tax returns and how many pieces of paper really

659
00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:16.239
<v Speaker 1>have to get printed out to file a tax return.

660
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:20.400
<v Speaker 1>You know, these are things that I think just beg

661
00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:24.000
<v Speaker 1>for improved efficiency. So you know, I do think that

662
00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:26.239
<v Speaker 1>you will see all of that start to happen over

663
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:27.039
<v Speaker 1>the coming years.

664
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:31.840
<v Speaker 2>That would be so great to have to have that done.

665
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:34.679
<v Speaker 2>I think regardless of what political party is stand, I

666
00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:37.079
<v Speaker 2>think people agree we want our government to work better

667
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.280
<v Speaker 2>for us. We want more transparency, we don't want money

668
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.440
<v Speaker 2>getting lost, and we want we don't want all these things.

669
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Maybe this is the this will event, These problems will

670
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:48.000
<v Speaker 2>be legacy problems and we'll have you know better.

671
00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Innovation isn't you know, Innovation isn't limited to a political party, right.

672
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:57.880
<v Speaker 1>Innovation is about the entire populace being able to benefit

673
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:01.119
<v Speaker 1>and so, you know, I think that, you know, you've

674
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:04.599
<v Speaker 1>got to kind of separate how you feel about, you know,

675
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:08.639
<v Speaker 1>what's happening from a political standpoint, from understanding that you know,

676
00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:12.639
<v Speaker 1>there are times when new technologies come in and change everything,

677
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:14.920
<v Speaker 1>and we're entering one of those times now.

678
00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:20.679
<v Speaker 2>Sandy, amazing, always great insights. Thank you so much for

679
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.199
<v Speaker 2>joining me. I'm really excited for the future updates around

680
00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:25.440
<v Speaker 2>Franklin Templeton. We'll have to have you back on next

681
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:27.280
<v Speaker 2>year because you guys are doing a lot of great things.

682
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, Thank you so much, with a

683
00:39:29.880 --> 00:39:32.239
<v Speaker 1>great conversation. I really enjoyed being on the show.