Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network and now
it's time for the Paranormal Peep Show.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the Paranormal Peep Show on the Paranormal UK
Radio Network, and this is Christmas District, a Christmas edition.
My name is Neil Ward and we are joined by
regular hosts Andy Chaplain.
Speaker 2: Hi. Andy, Happy Christmas.
Speaker 4: Happy Christmas to you too, Neil, But unfortunately not a
happy Christmas to the majority of the UK thanks to
crazy communist Keirs Darma. Who's rattled Let's see who he's
rattled so far. So he's rattled pensioners, he's rattled students,
he's rattled farmers. Now that's the latest one. Who else
is he going to rattle with his communist lightsaber?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: Probably the communists?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he's rattled quite a few cages. And he's
only been in the job five months, so yeah, yeah.
I think next year he'll be into phase two of
his complete annihilation of the UK, which would be interested.
Speaker 4: He tried a relaunch recently, didn't he a quotation relaunch?
Because it's going so badly for him, he will reset it.
I could think of another word beginning with that. He
should do, which is maybe resign.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought he's going to be talking some other
part of the body anatomy, but who will go there?
Speaker 2: Ben, How are you happy Christmas?
Speaker 6: Happy Christmas? Deal, Happy Christmas?
Speaker 4: And they and Gary?
Speaker 6: I'm very well, thank you. Yeah, I'm good to be
back in the Christmas season. It's kind of been a while,
isn't it since the last one?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's been twelve months.
Speaker 6: It feels like it feels like less than that. It
really does. I mean time, notional time is still accelerating.
In my view, it didn't slow down after twenty twelve.
If anything, the quickening has continued. And I see no
sorry liver debating.
Speaker 2: So I think I did have We should have Christmas
twenty five in about six months then?
Speaker 6: Really yeah, I mean literally it feels that way. I
don't know if that's ever going to change or not.
Speaker 4: But we're in a parallel universe right now since twenty twelve.
Speaker 6: Then, well, according to the it they call the many
World hypotheses, apparently we're continuously moving from one universe to another,
and it's every single moment the new universes are branching
off the main one. So yeah, it's some that's what
the Mandela effected.
Speaker 4: I think you know, yeah, I've heard about this.
Speaker 6: We are we are definitely not experiencing the reverse quickening
that was predicted. So that's a shame. Means we've got
it's notional time. When nocial time speeds up, it means
everything else speeds up, including everything we do and say
and our life expected seeing things like that. But that's
the world we're live in.
Speaker 2: There's one man that moves between many different worlds, and
that's Mexico, Hemil Hempstead and more recently he's been to
Italy to Pizza Up, which is our guest returning Gary Robinson.
Speaker 4: Are you doing the all good to see him?
Speaker 6: Mate?
Speaker 7: And it does seem like just weeks since we were
doing the large Christmas Show, And I don't know how
that works, but yeah, time speed up, yeah.
Speaker 6: But it does.
Speaker 3: So you've just come back from pizza was it where
they leaning tower of pizza.
Speaker 7: The leading tower, which is surprisingly sturdy actually when you
actually see it, it's pretty pretty thick and heavy granite.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so the guy that made it was it
was he drunk? Do you think when he made that
maybe he had a trick up his sleeve. I don't know,
how do they keep that tower at that angle for
all that time and it hasn't fallen down. I don't
though see it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're propping it up the artificially. They're also doing
something with the foundation underneath it to kind of support
it as well. So the reason the reason why it
leans like that is they built it straight and then
for some reason there was subsidence underneath, and then it
gradually started leaning over and continue to start leaning over.
But they are trying to kind of fix it and
stop that's been there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, now with with that, can you actually go up
in the tower or is it not accessible?
Speaker 7: Well, you could go up there. When I was there,
I didn't fancy going up there, but I did notice
that there's a recent drama on Apple TV. I can't
remember what it was called. We had Kate Blanchet in it,
and there's a scene where a character is at the
top of the tower dangling his feet over the edge
and writing in a notebook. And that was that seemed
to be an actual shot from the top. I did
see people, but I felt, NAEs, that's not for me.
Speaker 3: You know, we're all good and dandy, So I thought
i'd get our show on the road because with tradition
there's always mince pies around the Christmas time. So these
handy mince pies brought to you by who made them?
I think it was Morrison's, so we are not sponsored
by Morrison's. But these are lovely Morrison's mince pies. So
I'm going to hand them through our celestial time magnetor
which is basically skype in most people's words. So if
I try and get this open and I'll hand each
of you a mince pie, feel free to take one. Gentlemen,
we go.
Speaker 6: It's not for me.
Speaker 2: Thanks, Oh Ben, you're not having one? Why is Believe
it or not?
Speaker 6: And I love them. I'm actually I'm on a detox,
which is uh, it's it's something that's confused with a diet.
But I think I've shocked Andy so much now he
can't even swallow his pie. Yeah, it's it's a bit.
Speaker 2: It's not a dying. It's it's just it's an affirmation.
Speaker 6: It's it's something a cult I'm doing at the moment,
which is just to control what I eat, just for
the not for the person's losing weight. Although I have
actually lost a lot of weight. That's a side effect.
Not that not the reason I'm doing it. I just
want I just want to put out energy into the
universe so that good things happen, basically.
Speaker 2: And how did you hear of this dietary occult thing?
Speaker 6: Reading a book? It's reading a book called The Occult
and it's by Colin Wilson, who was who was a
hospital porter. As well as being very very famous in
the sort of woo woo world. He was a hospital porter,
so he knows what he's talking about. Believe me, he's
a I always always accept.
Speaker 2: The word of a brother time.
Speaker 4: Do you know what the word a cult actually means?
And then hidden? Yeah, hidden some most people did get
the kind of devil worship and and you know, demons
and that kind of thing. No, just mean hidden something.
Speaker 6: It's interesting because people people think when the people think
of a cult, they think of astera Crowley with a
crystal boss if heroin and having sex with a goat
on an altar. And but no, you don't. That's you
don't have to do that to do anything or cult.
That's he was very advanced, he's and he was very
very powerful. But every you know, every time if you
blow out your birthday candles and someone says, make a
wish and you do it, You've done something a cult
and people do these sorts of things all the time.
It's the basis of the most superstitions. And you believe
it or not, there is some reason to think that
it has It can have an effect. It can have
effect on your life and on a life under world
around you. Instan If you blow your candles and what happens,
you could be what you wish for for comes true.
Now you may be just lucky, or it may be
a direct mental intention of connected with your birthday. The
cause did to happen? How do you know which is which?
Speaker 4: M And if anyone of a Christian disposition, which is fine,
who might want to criticize people who take part in
quote occult rituals, will have a look at drinking the
blood of Christ and eating the body of Christ on
an altar with a chalice and bread. I mean, if
that's not a cult, then.
Speaker 6: I'm going to take I'm gonna take. I don't I
don't push it too hard like a mouse. If I
go on holiday, I'll take some time off as I
am doing it this weekend when I go to the
Basis Project conference. I'm also taking a week off for Christmas,
but I'm mending it all on the twentieth of January.
And when Trump gets inaugurated, it seems like kind of fitting.
It's a fitting moment of fitting Bill, A cool moment
will cellate your That is kind of the whole point
of it is kind of connected.
Speaker 4: To that, Ben, do you will you fill up your
chalice full of lill tears on that particular day?
Speaker 6: Oh, because I can deliberal bloody anymore.
Speaker 2: I don't have to drink anymore, you.
Speaker 4: Know, good guy your hair blue in protest and get emerge.
Speaker 6: And George Monbiou is my favorite. I mean his lament
it's just hilarious. I mean, I don't I don't take
pleasure in other people suffering, except this time.
Speaker 2: Was that saying he deserves it because he bloody deserves it.
Speaker 7: Go ahead, Gary, and you guys see him be yeap,
we can. I'm getting a few dropouts. I was just saying, Ben,
I missed the start of what you were saying. But
did you mean that you were doing the the detox
so that the physical clean out affects the sort of
non physical side of things for the better.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm hoping for. Yeah, that's why I'm doing that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that kind of connects with the little story that
I've got to.
Speaker 6: Tell later on.
Speaker 2: So all right, and look forward to hearing that.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So with the I'm just wondering, is there any symbolism
and in et in im minced pies as we've done,
what does that mean? You know, like you talk about
blowing out of canvas on birthdays?
Speaker 6: Is there Christmas is full of these things. I mean, like,
for example, it's it's simply it's it's I think it's
just simply people's feelings about Christmas, about coming back to
the family and having family times together and things like that.
And also what follows Christmas immediately is the New Year,
which is of course a much bigger think in Scotland
than it is in England. But we still do things
that make New Year's resolutions, and that's that's another act
of occultism. It's obviously there's nothing necessarily supernatural about that.
It's not a superstition. It's simply promising yourself you'll do
something in the coming year, and New Year's resolutions tend
to be not it's not hoping for something ephemeral and
uncontrolled out there to go your way. It's saying I'm
going to do this. It's a it's a commitment to
taking action. It's a statement of commitment to taking action.
But the fact you do it when a new year
starts is significant on an occult level.
Speaker 4: I mean, there's a few other things we could add
as well. I mean, there's no mentioned in the Bible
at all of when Jesus was actually born. In fact,
the I think it's the Quran that says that it
might be in around about July time. I've also heard
possibly September time, but I'm certainly what is in December?
You'll tie, which is oypagan tradition. So the Christians came
along and basically said, well, have you'r tied? That's going
to be ours now. That's when.
Speaker 2: Well, it's the same with Easter as well, wasn't it, Well,
the just conection. I'm from the Australia. Yeah, that's it
was the Easter hairs something, wasn't it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the reason of twenty fifth there's sorry, Andy, but
there's a there's a me saying yeah, okay, there's a
reason why Jesus was born on the twentieth December, which
is the same reason why I think Horace and all
these other saviety sun gods were born on the twenty
fifth of December. It's three days after the winter solstice,
and according in these ain't much older myths than than Christianity.
This was when the sun was said to be reborn
after being in the earth for three days, because Jesus
was in the belly of the earth for three days,
wasn't he.
Speaker 4: At this point, I would very much get people to
have a look at the documentary Zeitgeist. You've probably seen that,
Ben and but this goes into all of the ancient
mythical characters and their similarities with Jesus. For the record,
I want to say that I'm not anti Jesus. I
am anti religion, man made religion generally speaking, and I
am a spiritual person trying to follow a spiritual path.
But yeah, I would say that the Christian faith and
possibly quite a few other faiths either share similar attributes
or are basically knock off copies of ancient religions in
my personal opinion, and he was things like a Christmas
tree as well, and even the tintal that goes around
the Christmas tree. So the Christmas tree was celebrated in
the Scandinavia, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, that kind of thing,
and the tinta was originally the entrails of sacrificed animals
by the Pagans who they used to wrap around the
Christmas trees. You've also got the star you mentioned, like
Easter East Star. You know, this goes back to kind
of like Ish Star over this kind of thing. I'd
really get people to look into, not only Zeitgeist, but
also like David Ike, Jordan Maxwell is a big one
in terms of going into this kind of thing. But
there's there's so much hidden symbolism and most people have
no clue about this.
Speaker 6: They wander around.
Speaker 4: Their shopping malls. They're just see Father Christmas hophohole and
they have no idea what it's all about.
Speaker 6: That's true. I like to echo that I don't have
anything as people for what they believe in terms of
their faith. I'm not I wouldn't call myself an atheist.
I'll be inaccurate, but I myself don't follow those those
religions myself.
Speaker 4: If Jesus did exist, hands up, as you know, summed
up to him and shake his hand. Thank you, great, fantastic. However,
what I would say is that there are many prophets
and you know, spiritual people who have come to us
to try and help people, not just Jesus and not
just you know, the other ones, whether it's you know,
Mohammad or Moses or Krishna or whoever. They've all come
with spiritual messages. And it's basically a case of there's
good and there's bad in everything. There's good and bad
in the Bible and in the Torah and the Kuran
and the bug of a Gito, if I've pronounced that correctly,
and it's basically I think the spiritual path, the true
spiritual path, is looking at everything as a whole and
almost like a pick and mix, picking out the good
parts of the parts that resonate with you personally, and
basically putting the trash in the bin. And when I
say trash in the bin, I would say things like Deuteronomy,
where it says that if you've got a disobedient, disobedient child,
you take them to the gates of your town and
you stone them to death. I don't think that should
probably be in the Bible personally.
Speaker 2: They do have problems with that.
Speaker 4: One.
Speaker 2: Don't explain those things away, don't they.
Speaker 8: They?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I mean think the thing is I
mean the Bible split into two, isn't it. You've got
the New Old Testament. The New Testament is fine, Jesus
lovely neighbor, everything's great, fantastic. The Old Testament is the
fire and brimstone bit. And that's the bit where you're
stoning your stone, your children to death if they're dissipee Again,
what is that doing in a holy book?
Speaker 3: Well, it's because it comes from the Middle East, and
the Middle East is where these things were commonplace, stone
in the head in people.
Speaker 2: That's right. There's a lot of medieval kind of debauchery
out in the Middle East.
Speaker 6: Unfortunately this happens here. It's and Middle East is a
very unstable part of the world. And it's still as
we've seen you in the last few days. You know,
this has been its insurrection in Syria, which is kid
I don't nowhere, it's it and we see this repeated
across the world at the moment. So I think we
we're living in times of great hope at the moment,
especially since November.
Speaker 4: But if you were to make a prediction, Ben, how
long do you think Starmer's got in? Because he is
so dangerous for this country? How long do you think
before you there, dear as soon.
Speaker 6: As possibe, I mean when when as soon as he
started on his horrible campaign. I remember things myself. He's
only just been elected. We can't put up with another
four or three quarter years of this. I don't know.
I think I don't know, and I don't know how
we can get rid of him, because of course he
has just won an election. But I'm a great believer
in things coming out of.
Speaker 4: Left field, and he's because get afted by his own party.
I mean, that's how the Conservative.
Speaker 6: I think there's going to be the Labor Party is
gonna split now. They're they're common enemies, the various factions
in the Labor Party. Their common enemy has been defeated,
that is the Tories. The Tories have been bashed down
to almost nothing as a result, there's going to be
there was, always, always has been fashions in the Labor Party.
You remember the Gang of Four from the eighties and
and the militant tendency and the SDP. This is still
going on. Now we have the the left wing Corbynites,
and then of course they have the Blair right, the
centrist Blair Eyes. But then you also have like the
labor Jewish movement and of course a vast Islamists the
tendency and labor too, and they're gonna the Jews and
the Muslims are going to come to blows over Israel.
That's already happening. It's already happening now. I think these
these gaps are going to deepen and widen to the
point where the party may while sim point break apart.
Speaker 4: Because I mean, Reform have now overtaken them in the
polls that conservative. I think Kemmy is the right person
for the job. And I do like Terrry so far
what she said, I do like, but I think reform
is the way forwards. Really got to get rid of
the communists.
Speaker 6: Kemmy baiyknock is if only for if only for entertainment value.
It's just the look of Dan Abbott's face is just poetry.
Speaker 2: And it's sort of been a ring together, wasn't it.
Speaker 6: And David Lammy's horrible people who just say whenever they
just keep accusing other people of racism all the time,
you must be a white supremacist or hang on a
moment's and they have a yeah. I mean the problem
with Kemmy Baidknock has two problems. Firstly, she's weakened a
lot since she since she first came on the scene
started running for leadership. Secondly, her her ascendancy is about
three years too late. She should have come in straight
and when you know, if if she'd gone in there
and when Boris cuts and started, Boris Johnson became you know,
betrayed and stabbed and stabbed us all in the back,
that would be with these things could have been better then,
but they went to be. And she's a contradictory figure
because she is she herself as a product of mid
twentieth century immigration policy. Yet you know, there's no law
saying that black women have to all be like Dyana,
but they have agencies. She herself has chosen a different
side out of conviction, and she can't choose who she
is or what she is, but she can choose who
she is and she can choose what side she takes.
And true, I think it's hoped with Kemmy bag Actually
I hope so time will.
Speaker 3: Tell, so just a quick one before we go to
our first segment of the program. We had a visit
from the Jehovah's Witnesses, getting back to the religious side
of thing about the food days ago. They you know,
of course, that you don't know they're going to knock
at the door, but they knocked at the door, and
as two old ladies, and we're trying to keep the
door shut eight to keep the cold out because the
house up and it's freezing cold now, and the dog's
trying to get out as well, and my wife was
trying to keep the door from me from seeing them
because she knows as soon as I see them, I
went to open the door and start debating them for about
a good hour, and so I was obviously prevented from
doing so to keep the heating basically. But I wonder
if they actually deliberately go around in the winter months
so that you'll invite the men to stop the cold
and then that way they've gone. You it's their kind
of policy or something in it. But yeah, I do
wonder about these Jehovah's Witnesses, whether I'm on a losing
calls or not, because they're always try and say or
point to any incident that's happening that's in the times,
and oh, this is it, this is the end Time's
come in. I mean, like thirty five years ago, I
had a knock on the door from Jobah's witnesses. Fortunately
it was in the summertime, so I chatted to them more.
And it's the time the Berlin Wall was coming down,
and the guy was pointing at the TV saying, this
is the start of the end times. It's all going
to happen this summer. And of course nothing happened. The
bone wall came down. That was a collapse of communism,
but really the world went on really.
Speaker 4: So they don't celebrate Christmas as well?
Speaker 3: No, no, that's right, Yeah, they don't celebrate Christmas. They
don't celebrate birthdays, as we mentioned earlier. And if someone sneezes,
they don't say bless you.
Speaker 4: That's interesting. Why is that?
Speaker 2: I'm not sure.
Speaker 3: I don't know the reasoning behind that, but I think
it's something to do with the only person that could
bless you is actually God, the Father Tongue's idea, So
no one else can say bless you or and you
can't be blessed by a religious priest. I suppose in
that sort of context.
Speaker 4: They believe that only one hundred and forty four thousand
souls are going to make it to.
Speaker 2: Heaven something like that. Yeah, but there's actually a lot more,
isn't there.
Speaker 6: Gary is trying to speak. We can't hear him.
Speaker 2: So is my mic? Were you in here?
Speaker 8: Here?
Speaker 2: Now? I'm seeing some glitching on the screen, My mic
like going on or off.
Speaker 7: I yeah, so maybe I try reconnecting with the bluetooth
and you.
Speaker 2: Can No, It's okay, we can hear now.
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 7: Yeah, it just occurred to me that I went to
school with Jehovah's Witness guy. He used to tell me
that they unofficially had Christmas, but if someone would stick,
they had rules in regards to treatments, so they would
let people suffer because it was a year there philosophy.
And I always thought that was pretty barbaric.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, they don't do blood transfusions and that
kind of stuff.
Speaker 6: It, Yeah, it's weird about what's weird about them is
And I mean I used to know what I got
someone I saw a friend who was in the Jehovah's
Witness family, is that I went to visit the national
headquarters and they have they have branches all over the world,
and I was surprised about how up market it was.
It was set in a very larger state in I
think it was my end in London, and there's like
a huge building which is like a book publishers and printers,
and across the road there's like a big another big center,
and they have these Kingdom halls everywhere, which like churches,
and they tend to be very nice. They're they're very
the elaborate buildings with nice grounds and things like that.
And I went and I did wonder because I went
in there and spoke to a couple of people and
they ended up giving me two books. One of them
was like a hard bat letter about Bible or what
they I don't know what they call it. It's like
the Bible, it's pretty similar. And I just wonder, where's
all the money coming from people joining.
Speaker 2: Basically, this is where they have to go door to door.
Speaker 3: They's essentially salespeople to the Jehovah.
Speaker 2: Witness Kingdom thing, and it's all sort of based on
a headquarter somewhere in New York. I think they call them.
The elder people are running it, but it's a big
publishing empire. And I don't know.
Speaker 6: If any of you ever say in the Book of Mormon,
it's it's like a musical. It's it's showing in love.
It's the Mormon likely the Church of to Day saying
it's similar to the host Witnesses. It sort of emerged
around the same time. It has similar beliefs. But it's
just really it's a hilarious. It's like a comedy musical.
It's very funny about the Mormons.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, I have Mormons knock on my door once.
Speaker 4: I think I'm right. Now, I don't know if I'm
humbercent right. I think I'm right in saying that the
where they're getting their money from is they try and
convince people to either hand over all their money or
leave everything in their will to the church. I could
be wrong in that, and if I'm wrong, then then fine.
But I think but there is definitely one religional belief
system where it's basically give all your money away and
leave it all in your will and just you screw
your kids kind of thing.
Speaker 2: That's trobably what it is.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I mean it's because it is a very
very upmarket organization was very well funded, quite clearly, and.
Speaker 7: Well they knew as well to be in the church
from what my friend used to tell me, believing money
in the will, they have to pay like a monthly
do or whatever that's it, oh like tithing or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, church, is it really?
Speaker 7: You going the Catholic Church and they they come around
with it being asking for cats, you know.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean usually people just put a couple
of quid in the bag, but I think in the
Jehovah's Witnesses they probably put a lot more. I mean
the book was so the book they gave me the Bible,
it was it is just the tree like a Bible.
It has some artwork in it which is clearly based
on the Jehosah.
Speaker 3: Oh, this is all the paintings they do with people
laying down with lions and lenbs.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: But apart from that, I mean, it has the word
Jehovah instead of God, because Jovih is as as Monty
Python hilariously point out, you know, Jehovah is the word
for God, but.
Speaker 2: It's blasphemy to say it. It is, He's the God
of israelis called Jehovah.
Speaker 6: Yeah. But they actually used that word in the in
this particular book, which is just apart from that, it
looks just like a normal Bible to me, I've read
the normal Bible and it just looked like the same thing.
Speaker 3: It's it's interesting change. And this is why I always
like a little debate with them, because generally, nine times
out of ten, debate with them and ask them really
difficult questions and they don't.
Speaker 2: Know what to think.
Speaker 3: They can't answer them, and so they say, oh, we'll
come back with an answer, but they never do because
no one knows back at their base about what answers
they can give, so they just kind of avoid me. Anyway,
I think it's about time we went to our first interviews.
So a few weeks ago.
Speaker 2: I sat down over Skype and chatted with the Kinseller twins.
That's Philip and Ronnie Kinseller of bedford Shire. Philip is
a medium, but he's also a research and author into UFOs,
as is his brother Ronnie. So I spent a.
Speaker 3: Good forty or fifty minutes chatting with them about what
they've been up to this year and what are their
plans the next. So take a look at this. Well,
here we are with Ronnie and Philip kinsella from Bedfordshire.
They are the well, you could call them the Kinseller
Twins or the psychic Twins or the UFO Twins because
they crop up in many fields of psychic and UFO
related activity, and also the rock Bottom Twins. They are
the originally is of the rock Bottom Twins, who were
ventures of these treacherous of twins, always getting into trouble
by creating mayhem with robots that go awry.
Speaker 2: Yes, so you've been.
Speaker 3: Busy this year, both of you with different various projects. Philip,
you've been busy with a number of books, and you're
working on one called The Avatar, the Eternal Avatar.
Speaker 2: Is that right, that's correct.
Speaker 5: Yes, I've almost finished it with my co author Chris
John Mays, and that will be completed I think the
first week in December, and we've been sending these subsequent
chapters to the publisher in America and that should be
released in June no July of twenty twenty five. So
there was a wrangling with another publisher. I kept this
very quiet, but I didn't want anything to do with
them because it was all a little bit a bit
wavery So I've gone with someone else and yeah, so
that's near completion. And I've done finished some filming this
year with some production companies on UFOs, most notably Rendersham
and I had to go to the studio at Studios
to get that finished. So it's a few articles published
abroad in Italian and Spanish magazines. So it's been all right,
it's been good, but also I think quite a stressful
you in terms of the energies I think around the
world and with what's going on. But you know, but
I have plans for the projects with regards to the
next book after this one, so it's like a I've
got a list of them.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Wow, it's good to have a list. It's good to
always add the next thing to you onto so you're
not sort of sitting there dragging your knuckles and thinking
what can I do next? So the Eternal Avatar, are
we allowed to know a little bit about what it's
direction it's heading in.
Speaker 5: Yeah. By the way, your book, oh yeah, published book
is amazing, incredible, so amazing. I do have a copy
of the book somewhere because I've almost finished reading it.
True Tells of the Paranormal by Neil Ward and a
wonderful book articus, isn't it? I think of half a
purist pressuris that's how you pronounce?
Speaker 6: So yeah.
Speaker 5: The Eternal Avatar deals specifically in making the individual aware
of their inherent greatness. That is to say, it looks
into the human soul and the spirit because a contrary
to popular belief, there are differences to be had between
one and the other, and it deals with the incarnation
and the incarnation process, as well as tackling the theories
of why we're here, why we go through amnesia when
we incarnate into this realm, and also dealing with the
fact that we are avatars ourselves, that we are here
to build upon our eternal greatness, our magnificence. So the
book is an overall picture of what we are, not
just as a biological automaton, which the system that we
serve has so reminded us, and also arguing with regards
to the chaos theory and the Sunday School version, because
the system that we serve loves anything in everything as
long as it it doesn't have any proof, so with faith,
it's quite happy with that. So we battle the fact
that our genesis is very different to what we've been
told and sold, so to speak, and explores the the
you know why we're here and the possible war that
seems to be going on on a subliminal level, a
psychological level, utilized as a weapon that's been going on
by another darker force that's been here for a very
long time, and might answer some truly extraordinary questions with
regards to the subject matters that's in the book itself.
So yeah, that's that's an overall picture of it.
Speaker 2: Is it a just difficult book to write because it
is with a co writer?
Speaker 5: No, Actually, it was quite a dream, actually, to be
honest with you, because we had the chapter synopsis, we
had a constructor what to write about, and me and
Chris are on the same page with regards to the
psychic component, so it was it flowed really nicely. We
just generated ideas, brought them together, and then we constructed
the chapters another passed them to him and he'd pass
them back to me and we'd flow it through that way.
So it was very it was It's very it's hard
to write in terms of getting the research done and
all the rest, but it was easy to write with
a co author because sometimes with a co author it
can be very difficult. And we do have another author
who was writing the forward to the book, and we
have an artist already from Canada who's going to construct
the cover of the book as gold too, So yeah, wow.
Speaker 2: And what's Chris's background in all this? Is it UFOs
or spiritualism?
Speaker 5: In all of those subject methods, He's been very much
involved with the paranormal and with the UFO, very open minded,
very psychic, and you know, and there's a story behind
how we met up because there are synchronicities linked there
and how we connected and then we decided, well, let's
write a book. And of course there were subject matters
that we're all interested in. But it's interesting to see
people's takes on it because Chris actually recalls his incarnation process.
He actually remembers that, whereas most people don't they remember
past life or fragments of past lives, so he remembers
actually coming from the state of where he was and
then traversing through space, which was quite a terrifying experience
from this memory that he had as a child and
then growing up as an adult. So it is quite
interesting and also tackling not just the incarnation process, it
also looks into historical factors like Foth who never came
through the normal reproductive processing. He appeared from light off
towards the Egyptian deity and describe and has a colorful
history in terms of this ancient knowledge. So it's it's
kind of like looking at as some of the past,
some of the present, and looking into other areas of
reasoning behind incarnation and reincarnation. And this may answer us
some truly extraordinary questions about current states and affairs with
regards to what we call the UFOs and the paranormal.
And because they argued the case that they've been segmented
into separate categories when there could be key connections which
linked them to inter dimensional within their reality. So it's
a book that carries certain theories and for the reader
to decide for themselves. We're not telling them what it is.
It's up to the readers to decide.
Speaker 2: Wow, and when is that Jewel July June July?
Speaker 5: I think it's July. They want to bring it out
because they want to do it as audio as well
as paperback, kindle and hardback. So we're almost there completing
the project. And then of course from that point onwards
it is going to editorial as even as we speak,
as we finish these chapter that are being submitted and
worked on, so we're kind of.
Speaker 2: Like working together as a group to get it done.
So yeah, you know, the proof reading and corrections all
this kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, I've got that to
go on. The second book that I'm doing, which is
Unsolved Modern Mysteries for the same publishers, that'd be coming
out probably about the same time as your Avatar book
actually about the summer of next year. So that has
already been resubmitted now as a kind of completed chapters,
but I will probably maybe December or January be working
on the proofreading side of things with the proof editor
and changes and things.
Speaker 5: But I have to thank you also because you contributed
a wonderful piece in the book which is in there,
and that is to do with you know, afterlife and
thoughts on that, and that is wonderful. So I will
just tell your viewers that Neil here not only the
author of the wonderful books that's just come out and
the future ones, but also made another contribution. And of
course you were in Guardians and the Dead as well too.
You help with that, remember you went to all of
that and that was superpose. So we go back in
time with our connections on a literary level as well
as not just being great mates, helping out with the
art and also with the literature. So you know as
well as we do that it can be a very
time consuming process. And when people say, oh, it's easy
to write a book, no it not.
Speaker 3: No, no, it's I mean the book that I wrote. Actually,
you know, if you think about it, it's a lifetime
of processes because it's all these experiences you've taken from
childhood right up to your adult days that you sometimes
all put in books. And you know, you remember certain
things that happened in your teens or as a youngster
that you might put in the book, a certain psychic
experience or something like that. It all goes into the
factory that churns it out at the end, doesn't it.
Speaker 5: And your book is a very big book, and it's
a beautiful book. I mean it's beautiful the way the
publishers have done it.
Speaker 6: I love it.
Speaker 2: I love the look at it, look of it and
the way it is.
Speaker 5: It's beautiful.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, I just I just hope that people
don't get nightmares reading it. It wasn't written as a horror
book or anything, although I do have a I think
that who's it Forbidden Planet Bookshop, they've listed it as
horror because they haven't got a category for paranormal, which
is a bit of a strange one, but there we go.
Speaker 5: At least they're stock in it, which is nice. Oh
yeah that, I mean, you can get it Amazon now.
I think you know it started. It's like any book
ours when we were you know, had publishers before in
the past, with the contract or publishers. I mean, it
was a nightmare getting hold of it, and then of
course any it's any author's worse nightmare where people say, oh,
we can't get hold of it, and they're like breathing
down your netwill wears the book and then all of
for some when it comes out, you know it's there,
and then people forget that. So it is an honor
and I think for us as well as for you
because you were published before by one of the big
hay House, big publishing companies. But your book is are
beautiful and of course the publishers do some really wonderful
books in the line of what they're bringing out and
can't wait to read the next one as well too.
Speaker 3: So you know, it's funny when I actually got the
book in my hands, I look at it and I
don't read it.
Speaker 2: Do you know why I might find a mistake and go,
oh my god, pet? But anyway, thank you.
Speaker 3: So Ronnie, what have you been up to this last year?
I know we've been chatting over email and you've been
getting a new three D printer and creating wonderful artworks
within your z brush And you've been working that for
like twelve years eleven years or something like that, now,
isn't it?
Speaker 2: So you would really practice that, aren't you.
Speaker 5: Yes, I've branched in rather than out, because I tendify
that the UFOs and all that out and science fiction
is in. So I've branched in. But when i'm I've
got some apart from the z brush I'm which I'm
using now. I've just finished a science fiction novella which
took me three years to work on, mainly because I
was stuck on the ending and it came about just
blindly and I realized that that was it the queue
I needed. The book is probably about one hundred and
twenty pages long. It's not really big, but enough for
a train trip or an aircraft trip. You know, someone's
sitting on there. But I'm planning before I find anyone
for it. But someone has made a proposal to publish it.
Not one of the big giants, not one of the
major publishers. I've heard nothing from them, although we had
an agent in London many years ago, but sadly they retired.
Mary Martinez, we had an agency in London, but they've
retired and they couldn't take it on. So I've been
looking for an agent and I've tried seven and no luck.
But it's okay, and we were used to it. You know,
it's very cutbloat, it's not personal. But the book is
based on the dystopian future. I know it's common, I
know it's been done to death, but this has a twist.
I'm not going to give that to the way. I
didn't even tell the agents that to it because there
doren't on anyone nicking it, but I speaking of them,
no one's nicking it. But I'm illustrating this, so I
thought smattering of pictures within this book, because you're like, yes,
of your brilliant art is your money. I can't do
people very well that I can get away with it
with things that like the side angle of people or
you know, it is going to be illustrated, So I'm
going to do them kind of graphic key, but using
z brush. One man accused me of using AI with
my art, and I thought, well, yeah, no mate. It
took me, quietly stated, twelve years to master this, and
even that is still to me not good enough, because
you've just find yourself pushing and pushing, you know, You've
always learned new things, and it is like when you
do a painting. I appreciate it because it's you know,
you do it, and then you think, ooh is that
good enough? You know, like you said about your book,
we were the same. I frightened to open it to
look at it because of but that's just part of
being artistic. It's just that's what it is. So that's
what I've been doing. I've been working on this science
fiction novella and I am actually planning after that to
do a comic book, an actual comic book. I've never
thought of this before. Of the Bottom Twins.
Speaker 2: Oh brilliant, brilliant. So we haven't heard the last of them.
Then they will return now I.
Speaker 5: Had this because they were done and they were first
published in two thousand and six Google of Buck Kingsman
in The Gentleman. The grumpy old men who build this
robot as a work saving device to act as an
unpaid skivvy and to when the people are away. They
use it to clean up homes and get the money.
But it does something terrible to one of the houses.
So I had this picture in my head. I saw
it all last year of the men looking ahead in
this dingy hallway. They did it in a big ramshackled houses,
all run down and down the hallway with the torn
water paper and a dim light. It's like a Frankenstein monster,
the new creations standing in the distance. Look at them
ramshack the robot. You know, although it was published in
two thousand and six, we still we have all the
rights so we can develop it as a comic bookcase.
I think kids, all of that toned down, of course,
politically correct, of course, were up. Yeah, that was a
bit ambitious, I would say. So that's what I've been doing.
Speaker 2: And planning now.
Speaker 3: Excellent, excellent, So for the rock Bottom Twins resurface, do
you think next year is a book?
Speaker 5: It won't be next year, I think, because these illustrations
for the science fiction novella. The short book will take
at least until summer. Then it may be published hopefully
by winter. I can start the comic book by summer.
But as you well know, when MONI know, art takes ages,
even with z brush.
Speaker 2: But what I plan to do.
Speaker 5: What's clever about the z brush is the fact that
I can build all the models first, have all arms postures,
build the robot, and then the house is Then we
can twist and change them. As you know, the models
for this three D application. They can be swapped and
changed and you can have them in It's like it's
just clever cgiwork. Where you move in your artwork these
models and you can change the angle and the lighting
and things like that. And I plan for it to
be perhaps about thirty two pages long. And the tryer
I'm going to try a major publisher with that, a
comic book publisher.
Speaker 4: They call them graphic novels.
Speaker 5: I don't mind that I don't like the comic books,
you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I tend to find that the graphic novels and I
don't buy them, but when I flick through them, at
stores like Forbidden Planet. They tend to do loads of
them there. They always tend to be.
Speaker 3: Dark kind of stories, don't they dark and batman ish
or something. You know, very well done for what the
market is, extremely well done.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I can see what you're saying, very very gothic.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and of course you got the extension part.
Don't move it out from the z brush. You've got
the other three b D printer which you ordered and
one went missing, didn't it? And the three D printer
went missing, yes.
Speaker 5: Where it was as the Joker from Batman would say,
the original one.
Speaker 2: It was perfect. It went missing foot.
Speaker 5: In all fairness to them, they got me another one
straight away, and I have to commend their service. They
were wonderful, mil They were absolutely Although I was angry,
it wasn't their fault.
Speaker 2: You can't blame them. It's the delivery process. You can't
blame the delivery men.
Speaker 5: It was just pilt that they wouldn't state that, but
we know what happened.
Speaker 6: But they were wonderful.
Speaker 5: They got me you And yes, I mean I've got
plans to build the twins and their robot, but not
just yet. I want to get this comic book done
and then to try and promote it or hype it.
These things can be built, but of course using z brush,
when you've developed the models of them, you can produce
them as three dimensional resin kind of replicas, you know,
and judging. I mean, my printer's probably about just under
twelve inches tall, so in order to make a model
double that side, I everyone's the big one, I've had
to split the model. And to find out how to
do that, I'm still not absolutely one hundred percent on
how to do that. You know, So you learn, don't you?
Speaker 8: You learn?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's interesting because I came back from
Finland after doing a UFO conference, so I spoke there
and there was wonderful. They were absolutely amazing. They looked
after me like the Crown jewels. But I went with
another chat there bless him, and he took me to
my favorite children's author, tool Johnson toe Jensen that we
call her here in England of the movements created the
movements and her family the artists, and so I went
to a museum and saw all the models that they
have created. They're in big glass cabinets. But I also
so found the grave of two Judge, which I remembered.
I was brought in contact with her work when I
was all but around eight or nine years of age
and our teacher, Missus Sampson, God love her, read out
the miming Midsummer Madness and and I remembered the book
after she'd read it to the class through weeks. You know,
you have a storytelling and he has jumble cell tape.
But I used to love jumble cells. And it was
all but five PM and bought it for me, and
I loved that book. And then of course since then
eighty eight and since then I've collected everything of her
literature and work and all the biographies and everything.
Speaker 2: So it was it was very strange.
Speaker 5: I did take a picture and I put it online
of me standing by her tomb, and it was a
very moving moment because in you know, her life, you
saw in the museum of all the pictures of her
and even meeting the president of the Finland, I think
she was she was see what was equivalent to what
we would call a knighthood England for her work. But
you know, and then you just have the tomb and
you know, with it was it was very strange feeling
and I was very overwhelmed.
Speaker 2: And where you went to or UFO conference, that's where
you went, was it?
Speaker 5: Yeah? And I went there. I wasn't invited and I
couldn't afford to go, so I missed out on tour
of ah Johnson. But there may be one day, you know.
But it's just strange that I was drawn to the
country and I have to keep the organized as this.
They went out of their way because I asked them,
and they went out of their way to make sure
that I went that. But just quickly where she's buried
toe Johnsen. These cemeteries are huge, and the stones are huge.
All of the different monuments that they've been created are
absolutely spectacular. And we thought we could never find out
because it was like walking through Manhattan. They had lights
and the streets and like the areas winning this graveyard.
But we found it. We felt guided, we felt because
no one knew where it was, but we discovered it
through it was amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was telling us, so I'm here, I'm here.
I'm here because I was going to ask you about Finland.
But that's great you brought it up.
Speaker 3: So yeah, because I remember telling you when you went,
I said, oh, I've been to Finland, and it turned
out that you were going to the same city that
I had been to in ninety three, Tampier, Tamparey, Temperari.
Speaker 2: I'm not surying to pronounce this still. And I told
you about the huge tall tower which at a restaurant
at the top, and so when you went there, it
kind of brought back all the memories of myself going
and so so that had a knock on effect when
I was reading about your exploits were going to Finland,
because then it reinspired me from my story.
Speaker 3: They had children's story that I've started to write, which
just to explain to people, I used to tell my
kids when they were younger, used to make them up
bedtime stories, and one that was always they had always
asked for was a story of two mice that I've
made up. These characters called Cyril and his dad, who
couldn't see a thing because they had these great big
bifocals on. And Cyril be driving the car and is
dad to be point in the way rather like my dad,
but used to point the way when I used to
driving back from the hospital after having his eyes injected.
Speaker 2: On my ad so he couldn't see a thing himself,
you know. But my kids used to love it because
I used to have them driving around and driving down
the cat's mouth and things like that, getting lost. And
when I told them this time around, said look, I'm
going to do this story now and I'm going to
illustrate it. My son is twenty four, my daughter's twenty nine.
Speaker 3: They both smiled, and I could tell from that smile
that they thought it was a good idea because they
it wasn't old.
Speaker 2: Don't be a stupid dad. They had an affection for it.
You could see it in their eyes, you know, which
was lovely. So because of you going to Tempera and Google,
I decided to set this story where they go on
a benure and they do go to Finland, they do
go to Tamper and they.
Speaker 3: Do go up the tower. So that'll all be revealed
in the story. So that's your kind of influence coming
in there, which is great.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 5: When we write books you're saying about you know, there
are kind of perble traits in the writing because, as
you just saying, the Cyril's dad is based on your father, horrifically,
the rop often twins are based on me and him
when we're sixty. So there are traces there. And I
said to Philip when it was published, by goodness, have
we written our autobiography? Because all doesn't go well at
the end. It's at the table's a turn basically. So
it's interesting, isn't it. When you produce these books you
have elements of yourself in them. You can always find
elements of yourself within them their stories. Does A really
traced about my story?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Yeah, your personal It is your personal experience that comes
into these things, and you hear personal things and thinking, ah,
I can use that in that story, you know. I
think all the great writers have done it.
Speaker 2: They've taken elements of life and injected it into the
humor of Only Fools and Horses. For instance, I think
it was I forget the guy who wrote it. Now
he's passed on himself, but he used to listen to
conversations and if you heard anything funny, say oh, I
can use that in my Only Fools and Horses. And
that's how these things built up.
Speaker 6: You'd be.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so are you planning to do anything else?
Going abroad for conferences next year?
Speaker 6: Both?
Speaker 2: Did you anything happening on that front? Well?
Speaker 5: We did go up north to meet up with Port
Sinclair and we did some research and some interesting research
at danes Dyke and we caught an image of some
qu there wasn't in the camera to begin with, a
figure that we've paus been has put it online on
his truth proof link and some people are saying it's
a man in the Parker jacket. It's not because it
was no one there. The figure is huge and from
the distance because you know, and there's a light taber
it's head and it's interesting, isn't it. How And this
is the area of where the dogmen or what we
would call the werewolf is being seen by witnesses within
this area. It's a very ancient Neolithic place and very
strange area. So they'd be an analyzing this picture. It
could be a Sasquatch, it could be a dogma, and
it could be any Eolithic person. We don't know, but
whatever it is, it's huge and people, of course I'll
come forward and the armchair people who haven't been there,
who weren't there when you were primarily doing the research.
And we've had something's eyes that byas you know that
it's it's it's got a pair of white gloves in
his pockets are not gloves or actually the foliage that's
in front of it. So it's quite interesting. So we're
hopefully going back up there next year to do some
more research and you know, quite interesting. But it's quite unnerving,
you know, when you when you pick you capture something
on on camera that wasn't there. There was no one
there to begin with and finding it, but it's about
a foot tall, huge. And the other thing is that
with regard to the area of our being very spooky
and we weren't there, you know, specifically to catch anything strange,
we were just taking pictures of the area. And it's
interesting when people say, well, it is something to do
with the camera. Well, it's funny how the camera changes.
But all the other images that you took are perfect. Yes,
in light of that, No, I've got nothing planned for
next year. There's no conferences, I think with me, I've moved,
as I said, move inward, branched inward into more science fiction.
But I will continue, of course with the power normal.
I just feel personally myself, but the route had taken,
I can't reach any further at the moment. And this happened,
which was interesting. Because I had a book published by
cap or Ban in twenty ten called Twin Souls, which
was based on the paranormal that by Heavens. The next
one didn't come out until over a decade later, so
these things take time to think. I mean, I bought
another one out apart from Digital Demon Illusions.
Speaker 2: I like yourself. I haven't read it. I won't read
it once it's finished.
Speaker 6: It's done.
Speaker 5: The science fiction one, Witten is amazing. That's interesting because
we're the same. I won't look at I've never looked
at any of my bobs for to flick through it quickly. Pictures,
but that's it. That Strasi goes. But I've got nothing
planned for next year, and I think I like to
keep a clean slate, you know, because I want to
concentrate on the images for the sci fi novella and
of course the comic book of the rock Bottom Twits great.
Speaker 3: I look forward to that. So briefly, Philip, I did
mention this in an email, but it's something you don't
know about, but I'm sure that you you'll perhaps find
out more about it as time goes on.
Speaker 5: Was this.
Speaker 3: I was listening to Preston Dennit's podcast which he produces
every Friday, and it's usually Paranormal, one of the UFOs,
and he covers lots of UFO cases and human it's
very interesting sort of stuff. And we've actually had him
on the Paranormal Peep Show himself and he mentioned a
case on this particular episode that took place in Bedfordshire
in nineteen sixty five, and I thought, oh, that's interesting,
and it was Rif Chicksands. Now I'd never heard of
Rif Chicksands, but I did a quick check on the
maps and things, and I popped where you were and
put Rif Chicksands and it put you about twenty minutes
drive from them, so it's about maybe ten twelve miles
from you. So this was a story as I understand it.
Although it's called Rif Chicksands, it was run by the
US military. They were based there and it was like
a listening station that the witness understood it to be
where they monitored satellites.
Speaker 2: From what I've read, it wasn't the case, but maybe
they did as that as well. But from what I've
gleaned about the place, they basically listened to all incoming
communications from around the world, whether that's radio or broadcasting
or computers or anything. It's a bit like GCHQ of today,
i'd imagine with their kind of technology, but it was
advanced technology at the time anyway. And what it was
is because there was a lot of American military personnel
base there. They had their dependence, their families and children,
and they lived on houses around the base rather like
you know, lake and heath or wherever it might be,
and bent waters and that kind of thing. So what
happened was that this young girl, she's about fourteen at
the time, she was playing madminton in her garden on
the base when suddenly she was talking to her friend
and they were shouting and whatever to each other. They
couldn't hear each other.
Speaker 3: It all went quiet, even though their mouths were moving,
and so they kind of thought, what's going on? And
they he looked up and they saw a flins also
literally above their heads at tree top level. They said,
it's dark underneath. I will play the audio interview and
I'll put it in this as well so we can
all hear it. But I'm just recapping it for your benefit.
And because their dad was like the base commander, she
went into her house and that's when they could hear
each other. For some reason, this effect, whatever it was,
broke off. Once she went into the house, she told
her dad, who came out, and he couldn't hear anything
once he was outside, but he saw this ufo above
the thing. So he went back into the house and
he rang up the base and says, put it on lockdown,
put it on.
Speaker 2: Full of up. We've got an incident.
Speaker 3: And as he watched it, he said, this ufo started
to drift away, very very slowly, away from them, and
the effect that was coming down and where they couldn't
hear each other slowly wore off. I understood. But nobody
was allowed in the base or off the base for
at least twenty four hours, and her dad he drove
to the base, bill went into the there's supposedly underground
compartments there where they all went underground, and they were
doing whatever they have to do in this kind of emergency,
if you like. And when her dad came home the
next day from the base, she said, well, what was it?
And he said, I can't tell you anything. All I
can say is wasn't one of ours. And she says, well,
when you say one of ours or you're meaning one
of ours or not of this earth, And he wouldn't
say any more than that. And then many many years later,
like maybe ten years later or something, or maybe yeah,
I'd imagine ten years later, he ventured a bit more
information about it. I suppose he wasn't working at the
base at that time anymore, and he said it wasn't
one of ours, which he had obviously said before, but
he said simultaneously at six or seven other bases of
the same type of bass listening stations around the world
also had visits from your those on the very same day,
which was remarkable. They all turned up at these listening
stations on the very same day. Whether it was the
same UFO went to each listening station or there were
seven individuals UFOs, we don't know. But it was just
something that came to light later on when they looked
into it.
Speaker 8: It's at the incident, but it occurred a four years
ago in England on a military base. Let's see, it
was about sixty four or sixty five, nineteen sixty four
or sixty five at rif Chicksands in Bedfordshire, England. I
was a military dependent and the base is a satellite
communications base. It was in the afternoon, in the daylight,
and a friend of mine and I were playing badminton
in the backyard on the base, and we were shouting
and laughing and carrying on, and then we realized that
we couldn't hear each other. There wasn't any sound at all,
and we stopped and tried to talk to each other again,
and still couldn't hear each other, and looked around and
right above us at the top of the trees. They
were very old oak trees, so they were maybe forty
fifty feet high, I guess was a large dark object,
and we couldn't really tell anything from it because we
could only see the bottom, and we got scared. We
were just fourteen fifteen years old. And she went inside
the house to get her dad, and inside the house
he could hear her, and he came out to look
at it, and we couldn't hear him talking to us either,
and he couldn't hear us when he was outside, so
he went back inside and alerted the post, and when
he went back inside, it started moving off above the treetops,
and as soon as it wasn't right above us, we
could hear again and I heard the sirens post went
on alert, and he came back out and watched it
go off over the trees and it was moving very
slowly and it moved over maybe I don't know, three
or four houses away, and they were housing units.
Speaker 9: So it was still fairly close.
Speaker 8: So, like I said, they were calling me alert and
he told me to go home. And I lived about
two blocks.
Speaker 9: Away, so I ran home and my.
Speaker 8: Father, who was senior and CEO on the base, was
just leaving, and every all the people on alert went
down in what we called the hole. All the sudatellite
communications stuff was underground, and they went down in the
hole and the base was closed to all traffic, whether
you lived there or not. They closed the whole base
and he didn't back until in the morning. My father
didn't and when he came back, I asked him what
it was and he said, I can't tell you. He said,
all I can say is that it wasn't hours. And
I said, you mean hours hours, or you mean the
Earth's hours, and he wouldn't say anything else. Later, some
years later, when we were talking about it in the family,
I asked him again and he said it wasn't hours.
And I said I know that. And he said, well,
there are seven bases like the one we were on
in in the world, seven American bases like that. And
he said there were sightings at all seven that same
day a stretch. Yeah, those bases are very small, extremely small.
There's maybe at the top there's maybe fifty families there,
plus you know a number of non family people, unaccompanied people. Well,
everything that's military is underground except the satellite antenna them.
And it's what we called it the elephant cage. It's
a great, big circular structure and it looks like a
big round circuit cage. Yes, and around the outside of
these big white things that kind of look like niffles,
but they're not niffles. It was a close post at
all times, except you know, if you had some reason
to go on, then the APIs we or police would
let you on and off, but.
Speaker 9: You had to have some business there.
Speaker 8: It wasn't just open to the public.
Speaker 9: Okay, which shape did that of you?
Speaker 8: Cat? It was round, It was round from the bottom anyway.
Speaker 9: And it was.
Speaker 8: Dark, I'd say, you know, dark black or but it
was not shiny, it was it was just a dusky
dark color. Was there any estimate of size.
Speaker 9: It didn't seem very large.
Speaker 8: I'm not very good at size and distances, but I'd
say I'd say it was maybe sixty to eighty feet across. Ye. See,
I should add the reason I never mentioned this before
was we were told not to talk about it, and
my father, in that line of work, was was in
a very sensitive position and it was not uncommon for
us to be told that things that happened on base
were not for public consumption. Yes, but it's always bothered me.
And I know it's verifiable because other people saw it
and the base went on alert and it gets that
it was tracked on their equipment.
Speaker 9: Yes, how close were How close would that have been
to you? I said? It was right at the top
of an old maple tree, an old oak tree there, but.
Speaker 8: Not quite overhead. It was overhead over first, and then
it started moving off slowly. And then it's as I
was running home, I looked back because I was fully scared, okay,
and it was moving off very quickly. Then it just
went zips just But it was before that it was
not moving like like an airplane or helicopter or anything
like that, and there was no noise from it.
Speaker 9: Okay, but it would move like to the right in
all one hundred yards and then over a little bit,
always on a level movement. Well, I'm glad I finally
told somebody, okay, feels better.
Speaker 8: Let you come up. Remember any information that you havn't
to fasten on to us would like to hear from you,
Thanks very much. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's quite ambascinating here, isn't it. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think also that it's quite you know, when a
UFO comes into an airspace from experience from the night
of April twenty sixteen at eleven fifteen pm and light,
when we were presented with those huge, massive circular UFOs
that descended on that cold night on a Saturday night.
When we spoke, it was like someone that it was
like it was just snow muffled because there's no one around.
But for not being able to hear one another, that's
very These speaks me.
Speaker 8: Sweet that.
Speaker 5: The R one oh one and the R one hundred
are linked within bases, are not far power Rington Cardington? Yes,
and we know that.
Speaker 4: John G.
Speaker 5: Fuller, the author of The Intructed Journey, which Dell deals
with the Betty Barney hell case, also wrote a book
called the airmen who would not die, which is based
on the incredible testimony of witnesses through the disruption of
the R one oh one that came down in France.
And then of course mediums here in Bedford started bringing
the crow through from the other side. And of course
the American author whom I wrote to to get some
you know, some reply back, but didn't know he was
dead for ten years before the Internet.
Speaker 2: But you know, so there is I think every area has.
Speaker 5: Its own type of spookiness, like Chicksands and well I
was going. I wasn't a had the chicks Sands. I don't
know whether it was open in nineteen ninety three and
nineteen ninety four. I have no idea. I know of
it because an American lady who worked where we worked at
the time, she was her husband was stationed at Chicksands.
I didn't ask much about it, but her name was Amy,
and her husband just up in her late twenties. Her
husband worked in Chicksands as an American, but she wouldn't
say any more about it, not nothing to do with
the UFO. She didn't I didn't ask her at the time.
I wasn't interested in it, and they were he worked
there if it was open, I didn't even know it
was open.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, chicks.
Speaker 3: From what I understand, In nineteen ninety seven, the Americans
moved off the base and its briefly taken over by
the ref for about six months to eleven twelve months,
and then it was taken over by the army and
now they now use it. It's an mod owned kind
of station and it's still there. It's still open, but
in a different capacity. They do a lot of teaching
there of technical security and that kind of things. They
teach members of the forces.
Speaker 2: They also teach members of the civil service like the
police about listening or spying or whether they have to
teach there, and so they've changed the nature of the
job slightly. They use it more of a teaching aid
rather than a listening post.
Speaker 3: They teach you how to listen. I guess that's what
they use the equipment for. And they've got this huge
they called it the elephant cage, and it's a circular
ring on the ground. You've perhaps seen it, I don't know,
but it's made of wires and things like that, and
it looks like a cage basically that this is presumably
the kind of listening aerial or radar based ground system
that they would use to monitor their things. And this
is obviously what the UFOs seemed to be interested in.
Speaker 5: The big ear. Yeah, I told you something funny about
an American military base, and I couldn't tell you which
one it was because I had long, many long years ago,
before the Satin navs and the maps were available.
Speaker 2: I had my old cart and.
Speaker 5: I've finished in a function, a clairvoid function, and I
was driving back dark at night, and I literally got
lost and I found myself driving up to this huge base.
Speaker 2: And when I got up.
Speaker 5: There there were these guards up there. I think they
were armed on base they're allowed to be. And I
drove up and thought, oh my goodness, but I don't
get shop. So I pulled over so and I'm awfully sorry,
I am lost.
Speaker 6: Can you help me?
Speaker 5: And two of they were Americans, and they said, you're
from England and you're a last as you know. They
were wonderful. They gave me clear instructions of how to
get onto the motorway and which way to take, and
it made laugh and I felt pro but and one
of them said, you're very British and I will always remember,
but whatever basic it was, and people say, well, I
can't even remember, but I know it wasn't near here,
but it was occupied by Americans because they spoke American
that let me tell you. They were incredible and I
were think England lost, but they're from America.
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly where I needed to go in
my own country. That's funny, isn't it. It's incredible. Yeah,
but they would pointing a way for you in your
own country. Yeah, yeah, that.
Speaker 5: Would make sense for chicksands because Amy where we worked,
she was there for a few years and they went
back to America. So I didn't know what to do
with a reaper posting or whether it was closing down
that section, I don't know, but yes, he was working
there from ninety three certainly onwards for a few years.
They certainly we went around in sixty five anyway. So yes,
well when you get sorry, Broie, Saucer is astonishing, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. It does seem to bed for
the area does seem to be haunted by flying saurces. They
still have an interest, don't they.
Speaker 3: I mean, you've got loot An airport down the road,
half an hour away. You've got chicksands up the road
and then of course you've seen your Yeah, you've got
your your.
Speaker 2: Cardington Hall hangers and things. There's a lot of interesting
things for them to look at. I think.
Speaker 3: Right, I think we better draw this interview to a close.
So thank you once again, gentlemen, for your time, and
maybe we wish you a merry Christmas and a happy
new Year from the Paranormal Peep Show Andy myself and
also Ben. And have you got any plans for Christmas?
Is it family gathered around the fire type of thing?
Speaker 5: Well, I think it more in line of that scene
on Independence Day when they're all on the top of
that building having a party, wearing their UFO hats and
asking them to come down you know here we are. No,
it's it's a it will be a family matter, so
it will be a quiet one for us. So that'd
be lovely looking forward to that. And I hacked you too,
do I hope you also have it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well my daughter's coming down from the Orkney Islands
to join us, so that'd be nice. So yeah, that'd
be a Christmas to remember, I hope.
Speaker 2: Right. Thank you very much, Thank you very much.
Speaker 4: Neil Thank you, Hey folks, welcome back to the Paranormal
Peek Show with myself, Andy Chaplin, Neil Ward, ben Emen Jones,
and Gary whose last name Robinson.
Speaker 5: There we go.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that was a fascinating talk and interview with
the Kinsella twins. Right, Neil, what have we got next?
What's up?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 2: Gary has mentioned that he's having the interest. I mean,
we heard some of the interesting kind of experience there
with Philip and Ronny, and Gary has mentioned to me
that he's also had an interesting story that you'd like
to relate. And we do like ghostly tales and things
around the fire at Christmas time. So Gary, do you
want to enlighten as to what's been happening with you?
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's not a very Christmas story, but it's a
good one, I think, so I reckon It started roughly
about six months ago, and what was happening was I
kept having these dreams. I would say, on a good week,
I would have one dream and on a bad week
three dreams, always the same thing. I would wake up
in a very dark old room, like something out of
some horrible movie, and I wouldn't know where I was,
and I'd be aware of a presence moving towards the room,
coming to get me. And these dreams would have such
a deep sort of sense of terror that they were
impall in me, such like a deep rooted feeling. It
was very personal, and so I'd wake cut feeling very emotional,
and I would I would be calling out in my sleep.
And this went on and on and on the same thing,
and then it kind of expanded and I started getting
these experiences where I was waking up early in the morning.
Is it the hypnogogic or hypnopompic state where you're slowly
coming into consciousness one of those days this is.
Speaker 6: Nag when you're hitting the pump pics when you're going
off to sleep. I think was the other way around.
I can't remember.
Speaker 7: So a number of times I heard voices, like a
whispering voice, and this this is where it started to
get really freaky. On one occasion, the voice clearly said
let me in, and that really freaked me out. I
spent a few days thinking about that. Another time it
said listen to me. This went on and on. There
there were a few times where I couldn't make out
what it was saying. And around the same time, during
these months, I found myself withdrawing from everyone social wise,
Like I stopped going to music events, you know, because
being in and base seeing, I'm always out a lot.
I kind of stepped back from that. I haven't given
contecular Ben's channel recently. I haven't been engaging. I couldn't
explain it. Had a lot of frustrations, a lot of anger.
I didn't know where it was coming from. There was
nothing particularly going wrong in life, but these dreams pursued
and it became exhausting, you know, getting up some mornings
thinking that's the same thing again. You get the emotional
kind of raining as you wake up from it. Some mornings,
you know, I wake up five am, couldn't get back
to sleep. And then I had another dream where it
was like a sketch from the show of Stranger Things,
like a kid's house and standing over it was this
kind of horrible shadow thing with his hands over the house,
and I thought, wow, this is this is bad. So
around the same time, I was listening to Mark Bierski.
I don't know if you guys know who Mark Bajersky is.
He's an energy here though, a guy from your students
in Spain and He talks a lot about non physical attachments,
demonic attachments, and he says that although people shouldn't use
these as an excuse for problems in our life. In
other words, you can't go around saying, oh, you know,
I did this and I'm a bad person because I
must have an attachment. He says, there are lots of
cases of this and people don't understand it and it
goes undiagnosed. And he started saying, you know, firstly, you'll
not just that your Actually she's got a lot of anger.
And I thought, well, hold a minute, this is you know,
this is what I'm going through. So I went to
a friend of mine who was a psychic, and she's
been doing that since she was a child. She's into
every aspect of the psychic world. And she often tells
me stories about how she goes to a place that
she claims it is the realm that ayahuasca's users go
to it and meets different entities and whatnot.
Speaker 2: She tells me some pretty dark stories, and she works
with a.
Speaker 7: Lot of famous bands and does like psy could work
with them anyway. She sent me a message after I
explained this to her, and she said, so I had
to look into this for you, and she said you
had something, she said, and it was very nice. She says,
I'm not going to tell you what it was. She says,
I don't want to frighten you.
Speaker 6: But it's gone.
Speaker 7: She said, when you go to sleep tonight, you shouldn't
have any more trouble. And she said to me, if
it comes back, because they sometimes do come back, let
me know.
Speaker 4: She says, I'll get rid of it again.
Speaker 7: She says, it's best if I don't tell you what
it is.
Speaker 6: You have the weird thing.
Speaker 7: I went to sleep that first night after I telling
me that, and I felt in my sleep like I
was in a different place. I was in a safe place.
I was being told that I was somewhere safe. And
I had that for days afterwards, until I felt like
a peace mm hmm.
Speaker 4: But has it has it gone permanently? And it's like
nothing sense.
Speaker 7: Nothing's come back, nothing until sleeping with a crucifix as well.
Speaker 4: So with that, I've got to ask, Usually there's a
reason or there's an opening that bring these things in.
Can you pinpoint what that might have been?
Speaker 7: Well, I think there's a couple of things because without
wanting to talk about Mark Boyersky too much. He puts
down drinking as in weiji boards and ayahuasca as courted
people getting attachments that can affect them in these ways.
And obviously my wife is doing a lot of ayahuasca,
but Germanic, so she should have been protected. I can't
remember if I told you guys in one of these
shows that there was an incidents at one of Herst
sessions where a young Mexican athlete in his twenties did
ayahuasca followed by a psychedelic from a frog in the
same session. Right, he never woke up in the morning
around the same time that they were in that ceremony.
I'm here in England. I have one of these dreams
where I saw, and this is gonna sound bizarre, this
window behind me. I saw a figure of a young
guy climbed through the window, walk across the room, stop
going around and look at me, got through the door.
So was there some kind of connection between me and
her because she was an iron osca opened fire firewall
or something like that, and that led to something darker?
I don't know.
Speaker 4: I think you mean, so you think it possibly the
connection with this this guy, and I assume that he
passed over to spirit and that was his He never
came back.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you say that that could have opened a
porcal or the doorway, and then something else came through that.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I'm wondering if that's the case about the time where
it all started for me and that dream where I
saw that figure, it's being with the same feeling as
these other dreams. If I was to make a dramatic
slash pop culture comparison, think about stranger things when the
demogra has come in for the bits, that's kind of
what it felt like, but also on a personal level
where something was after me, very strange.
Speaker 4: The thing is we are at war because I've I've
experienced actually similar things, so that's not exactly the same
that similar things, and where we're at war, there's in
this in the spiritual realms, there are good, wonderful, loving
beings that love us and want to help us, and
there are we're not allowed to swear, but not so
nice one. We have a very very dark, destructive agenda
for humanity and sort of a sliding scale of everything
in between. And so far as I'm concerned, we're we're
at war, and there's there's there's a force that wants
to help us, and there's a force that wants to
utterly destroy us out then.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so it goes back to the bad things in
the world today being done to be the potential entities
that need that negativity to feed off. Is that the
attention explanation for the from the madness?
Speaker 4: Yes, because it doesn't make sense. I mean, I keep
going back to labour and Kiirs Starmer he looks so
he looks so kind of harmless and so kind of like, oh,
he's here to help everybody. The amount of harm that
that man is doing to this country, destroying this country.
And don't forget these people they go to. He was asked,
Keir Starmer was asked, where do your lordies like Parliament
or DeVos? Instantly he said DeVos without a battle of
an eyelid, Davots. So these people go to secret societies.
They go to places like Bohemian Grove worshiping a giant
sixty foot l in front called Molloch doing mock baby sacrifices.
Now I'm not saying that the baby was real, and
I'm not saying that kirstarm actually does them, but I
wouldn't be surprised if he goes to similar things like this. So,
and we've got a satanic Hollywood Arena, We've got satanic
and you probably know this. In the music industry, there's
a satanic element. And that's not saying everyone in the
music industry is satanist, but a lot have let's just say,
the companies or the funders or the people behind it
have dark things going on. And actually, to back this up,
have you heard Gary of the one of the guys
from Boyzone, of all things Boyzone, who's basically said that
the music industry is satanic and that satanic rituals are
being done on every album and every piece of music
that's created.
Speaker 7: That boysone have heard that before, and I've heard it
from Mark Devlin.
Speaker 6: As well, and it doesn't surprise me.
Speaker 7: And there was a brief period about ten years ago
where I was involved with Interscope Eminem's label, Yeah, and
they wanted a track Dive out of my label. They
wanted to add it to their cachet that they offer
up to their pop stars. And at the same time
they were trying to sign a young guy that worked
for me, a vocalist and his boy band. They would
get pressured and they were seeing some things that they
didn't like, and their dad just didn't let them go
through with it, and they eventually stayed Los Angeles and
came back home.
Speaker 6: So yeah, I do know there's a lot of weird
things going on.
Speaker 4: And so I've just found it, going to drop it
into chat, just fed it on YouTube. I'm pretty quick
with fine of these things. What's his name? What's his name?
I think it's Shane Lynch. There we go boy, his
own Shane Lynch. If anyone's wanting to find out what's
really going on behind the scenes. There's others that have
come out as well. There's other music industry people who
basically said that they've sold their soul to the devil.
And you know a lot of people think, oh, you know, haha,
isn't it funny, But they mean it in a literal sense.
I think Lady Gargarth, I think Beyonce. I think there's
a few others. There's a whole load of clips of
these of these stars all saying the same thing, that
they've sold their soul. And I think I'm right in
saying and you might be able to back me up
on this. Neil and Ben I think it's Beyonce who
says that when she's on stage, it's not really her performing,
it's like she gets possessed or she allows something in
to allow her to perform. Have you guys, that's what?
Speaker 6: Yeah, Well, I'm glad Gary mentioned Mark Devin because he's
he's no one more than him has done anything like this,
because he's a club he is a he is a
club DJ, and he knows.
Speaker 4: He's lodges that he has said because I've not come.
Speaker 6: Well basically says everyone. He mentioned Boys and he mentioned
several artists, Beyonce, everyone who has achieved anything within this
industry has been through this filter, which involves horrible things
they've had to do, including sexual abuse. And it's amazing.
Now it's boys own guy. I mean Boys Owe were
the biggest thing on earth. There were this doubly based
boy band. I remember, and you know, and they were
they were like top of the charts and everythink I
remember they had a couple of good songs. Actually, and
he's someone in his position has got nothing to gain
by coming out and talking about this sort of thing.
He's just been David eite and canceled before you know it.
But it's and then you see the same thing in Hollywood,
of course, and the idea of selling your soul, the
idea of you making a decision to exchange something in
a satanic deal, that is classic dark occultism, and it
can be found through our history. It goes right back
to things like Adam and Eve and Jesus being tempted
and things like this, and there's no reason why it
shouldn't exist.
Speaker 2: In real world.
Speaker 6: And indeed, I've heard the phrase, I don't know who
coined it. The best trick the devil ever Pool was
convincing that he doesn't exist. And this could explain why.
You know, atheists more than anyone, can be susceptible to
this kind of thing because they don't believe they're doing anything.
They don't please anything they're to be frightened of. And
when it comes to possession. I'm glad Gary you're on
the men now, definitely, and of course I appreciate. I
did notice your absence from from my channel and community, which.
Speaker 4: We do from everything.
Speaker 7: Ben I just for some reason I couldn't face YouTube
anymore going out. I've been completely off the met I did.
Speaker 6: I did wonder. I'm glad because if you did speak
privately and I did you think? You sent me a
Facebook message and it's good to see you again. I'm
glad you're on the men. That's probably primary feeling about this,
But of course I'm I would be Obviously, I don't
expect you to do this because you've been in this position,
You've actually had to deal with it yourself. But I'm
curious about what this. This lady didn't tell you, and
she said it was best you don't know.
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm curious, But at the same time, I don't
want to know because someone that I trussed just does.
Speaker 2: That make you more frightened? When she says you don't
want to know, you're thinking, oh my god.
Speaker 6: Yeah. I got to be honest.
Speaker 7: I couldn't sleep well, obviously I could sleep, but I
found it very unsettling hitting the set jee by being watched.
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 6: Is it lurking?
Speaker 7: But at the same time I felt like it had
been flushed. I felt disconnected from whatever it was that
was always lurking.
Speaker 6: F'sc amating.
Speaker 4: I mean, had Gary, have you ever done a weedy
board or done anything that might have opened or was
it purely this this soul that you saw or that
might have opened up a porter. If you think of
anything else that it might have.
Speaker 7: Been my only thing really because I never even did
the ayahuasca by any micro boating, so I never opened
myself up. But my wife, she she did ayahuasca like
multiple times, and I actually did all these really powerful
psychedelics to the point where the night of the Young
Guy died, she said that she was out there in
the galaxy and she thought, oh, I can't get home.
She said, I don't know how to get back, and
if I don't get back, he's going to look after
the kids.
Speaker 4: You see.
Speaker 6: It's the thing, is Gary like, because you're in an
intimate relationship with somebody who is involved in this that
could have had had effected. It doesn't mean that she's
in danger.
Speaker 4: They could have bout what kind of thing, isn't I mean? Forget?
Speaker 7: Then I was going to say, because we just touched
on movies, because you're a fan of June, have you
been watching June Property, Because there's an interesting storyline where
they outlawed people intelligence and they have people selling artificial
intelligence robots and animals and stuff.
Speaker 6: Right that sounds interesting because I mean, I don't I've
boycotted all the pointless sequels and remakes and spin off
because they tend to they tend to be very, very
insulting and don't do credit to the original franchise. I mean,
I didn't like I know, you disagree, I think I
think we disagreed on this, but I didn't like the
new Jude, the new Dennis Field of June. I love
the David Lynch one, but this one I didn't really
get anything out of.
Speaker 7: Well, the shut links to the movies is spensive universe,
but I thought it would interesting that they've just introduced
this subplot where AI is illegal and all the planets
within the June system hunting down people that are selling
these illegal AI creatures and robots and stuff.
Speaker 6: That is fascinating because I'm aware of like the backstory
of the Junie universe, the Butlerians you had, where humans
have to go to war against these intelligent machines, which
is why the June French you know, the June movies
have been made. And indeed, the original June book has
such a steampunk feel to it because there's no sophisticated
electronics in June. I mean, they have like basic things
such as you know, instruments on spaceship panels, they have
X ray machines in hospitals. But that's about it. But yeah,
I mean that sounds very interesting. I might give that
a go just because of that plot element is enough
to encourage me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 7: In the creative world right now, with New Journey and creating,
also music production, all these things are being affected by AI.
There's a lot of people that are not happy with it.
There's a lot of people who think it's actually satanic
and here it is New Dune TV show.
Speaker 6: Well, there's some people have said a lot of things
about how in the same way the EVP happens, where
spiritual entities will actually manifest on things such as tape.
And there's itc instrument into transit communication, transcommunication instrumental communication
that obviously computers will be can also be used by
these things. And there's this strange feature of now there's
never been confirmed, but there was that Low but that
appearing low Ab, this horrible looking, ugly and frightening looking
woman who kept appearing in AI R.
Speaker 2: And the person who says the person who first created doesn't.
Speaker 6: Know where how it came from, explain this.
Speaker 4: So it's an app that creates ai art.
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a Swedish person was she was saying, she's
creating she's no one knows who her real name, but
she's got like but she was creating art and suddenly
the strange, horrible creature appeared in it.
Speaker 2: It's like a feminine, demonic looking being.
Speaker 6: If you look. I've just just put a low low
l O A B into Google Images and you'll see
it now. Obviously it's too late now because because it's
now out there, AI art is now all the AI
art apps are now picking them up, so it's kind
of like become It's like this man thing. You know,
people are dreaming about it because they've seen it on
in the media and on TV and on computers. But
it's just just an example what we're talking about here, pretty.
Speaker 2: Do you know?
Speaker 6: I mean Jerry Marsinsky, I've been I've been watching Jerry Marsinski,
who's a former psychiatrist who said he was when he
was trained, he was told he has deal with schizophrenics
and people like that, and he was told never human
them in their delusions. Don't get into discussions about anything
they talk about, because it's all it's all part of
the pathologies in their head. Never even never, never even
talked to the patient about it. But anyway, he broke
that rule and he made some astonishing discoveries about what
the mental patients actually were enduring it and he even
had some confirmation in terms of his own experiences there
are my level intensities that were actually affecting them. Very
interesting chap, Jerry Masinski, Yeah, very instant chap. Actually similar
to your story, Gary, you know, and even the late
great Gareth Davis was concerned about this, and it was
just before he died. But he had some horrible experiences.
For example, even in his own home, he was just
out in the garage where they got a washing machine,
and he describes this horrible experience he had, what happened.
Then he felt a moment of horror and revulsion and
he felt he was under spiritual attack at that moment,
and he talks he talks about it in the Mindset
podcast with some of the programs we did. And then
when he was he was actually visiting his family in Wales.
Speaker 2: Where he comes from originally, and he was like.
Speaker 6: He was he was like picking up sounds on he
left to take recorder Running Boy's bed and was picking
up sounds. And when he was back, he actually he
split up with his wife and he moved into it.
He moved into his own home and there was like
a black handprint on a new paint because they when
before he moved in, they had the whole place re
decorated and painted. There was like a black handprint on there.
And I said, Gareth, you washed it off yet? And
he says, no, are you scared it might come back
if you wash it off? And he was picking up
more weird noises in the flat and this was just
like and then sadly he passed away.
Speaker 4: I think with all of this we need to kind
of ask is life following art? With art following life?
And what I mean by that is I've actually found
the clip where there's lots of different celebrities saying that
they sold their sold to the devil. It's on YouTube
is called I Sold My Soul to the Devil, Katie Perry,
Kanye West, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, Bob Dylan, and people can
also if they want to search for the Shane Lynch
one look up Shane Lynch. The music industry is satanic?
How this is what I'm trying to say, is is
this if the if the music industry and if Hollywood
is pushing dark, satanic, basically low entity stuff towards the public,
is that making the public then more susceptible to bringing
in and then changing their mindset? Or is it the
case that we have this kind of this dark mindset
as a as a public consciousness and we're the ones
that are creating these these movies and the music to
do this? Which which is which chicken or the egg?
Speaker 7: And I'll tell you what I've been told that we
should avoid and general nastiness because apparently the third for example,
you want to sit down and much Good Fellas well,
it's it's a great movie. There is violent, it's very
there's a lot of cruelty and a lot of buttes.
And what I'm told is the exposinglf to that kind
of material on a regular basis also makes you open
kind of things. And I've always been really into like
gangster shows and Peggy Blinders, love hate things like that,
But the trouble is that they are just full of
domestic abuse and murder and beatings, and so I you know,
I kind of swer them these days because I can
feel that negative, you know.
Speaker 4: Which I think you like.
Speaker 6: Devilyn says something similar about this, because he says like
he's he talks specifically about his own particular field, which
is like club DJing and things like this, and he
gives examples of various instances in which he compares like
music performances and concerts to religious festivals. And that's because
he says that the people are listening, they're all dancing,
and they're cheering, and it's all it is. They're all
all they're possessed emotionally and therefore spiritually by the music,
by the performance j and and that's yeah, and that's
and yeah. He compares the DJ like to the priest.
Some of them even look like it. They they're standing
there like playing the music, and they're surrounded by lights
sometimes the yeah, and they're where there's where they wear
strayed garments and they're surrounded by lights, and there's fireworks,
there's pirate technics, there's smoke, there's sometimes even smells that
are used. And he says that's all adding to the
to the feeling, to the to the enormous feeling and
emotion that is built up within the audience, and that
in the self, that motion itself gives off their spiritual energy.
And I mean you mentioned TV shows and movies Gary,
maybe that's something similar.
Speaker 7: But you know what, speaking of DJs, if you're let's
say you're like me and you're the artist as a
pretty good following, a few DJs support my tracks, I
get press, but.
Speaker 6: But I'm not a DJ.
Speaker 7: If you take a person similar to me who is
a DJ, people like Spotify when they will take their
music and put it straight into the mainstream Spotify editorial
playlist so that they get an even bigger following. So
it's like, if I play the game, if I want
to become a DJ and I want to be the
religious figure and stand in front of people taking credit
for other people's music, then Spotify will reward. They will
reward me in the system or being one of those figures,
and they will put me in their editorials, and I will,
you know, quadruple my.
Speaker 2: Numbers and my stats and my fans like Overnight.
Speaker 6: But that's a typical satanic deal. That's a typical devil's bargain,
isn't it.
Speaker 7: It's numbers?
Speaker 2: You want?
Speaker 6: What what about very powerful, emotionally powerful movie scenes? For example,
the opening scene in the film Rocky, the original one
where Sylvester Stallone's character is involved in a boxing match
and he's like beaten senseless by this other boxer and
it's it's a it's very upsetting. He he's the makeup
is really good because he's got black eyes, his nose
is bleeding. And then at the end he fights back
and then he calls out for his wife and he's
crying and everyone else is crying. And if you're watching
that again, it's and what's he standing? What the funny enough?
The floor of the boxing ring is an EU flag.
It's a look with a twelve slash. I mean, look
at it. Do you don't believe me?
Speaker 2: Look at that scene? What's that?
Speaker 4: In Rocky is different?
Speaker 7: Though the intention is not bad. Also, you know, Rocky
is not a film about a man who wins by violence.
He's he's in violence just to survive. And you know
you remember what, Yeah, he's.
Speaker 6: It's a likable he's a likable character. Yeah, he's a
sort of disingenuous, kind of family loving family man who
loves his wife. Yeah, I see that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, can double of violence doesn't have bad intention?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 6: I mean it's actually wrote an to call some of
them on our side, where I actually make the point
they're not everything in the media's control for a malevolent intent.
There's even positive there's even people putting out positive intentions
in some of their productions and some of their works,
their music, their films, their books, because they can do so.
They can get away with it in terms of because
what they're doing is essentially allegorical. This is why it's
similar to my own fiction, which is allegorical.
Speaker 3: Right, I think we'd better lead you there for the minute.
Gents will take a pause of aragolical pauses that sort.
Will take a listen to an interview that we had
Andy and I we recorded a few weeks back with
Christian Lander, who Ben you know from the ASSP conferences.
We met Christian at the ASSP conference at the end
of August in twenty twenty four and he kindly spoke
to Andy and I about the night Crawlers and also
the Nottingham Sheer Roswell case, which I think you've been to, Ben,
and we used to clip of that in there with
and so maybe afterwards you can tell us about your
experience the not In Sheerswell, so here we are with ourselves.
I've got to point out for those that washing on YouTube,
I switched my camera on my webcam to defocus the background,
and it all looked good in the recording, but when
I actually watched the recording afterwards, it seemed to defocus
my face as well. I can't understand how that happened,
but obviously Skytte didn't like me on that particular occasion,
so apologies to that, but it's one of those things
I'm stuck with and AI won't be able to fix it,
so there we go. So anyway, take a look at
us chatting to Christian Lander and we'll see in a minute. Right,
So here we are.
Speaker 2: Now it's Andy and I and we are interviewing Christian Lander.
And we met Christian Land at the ASSAP conference back
in August. That's a seriously strange conference in Winchester and
Christian dealer presentation on the night Crawler. That was his
own research on the night Crawler, which is a series
of strange events and videos turning up on the Internet
of these weird beings, which we'll discuss in a minute.
But first, welcome Christian to the Paranormal peep Show. Now, Christian,
you've obviously got a lot of research under your belt
and do a lot of work for the association. And
I can't say it was was it called ASAPP. Yeah, ASAPS.
So it's the Association of the Scientific Study of Anomalist Phenomenon.
Speaker 3: It's a bit of a mouthful, must say. That's why
I get the people that are in it to say it,
because I always trip over the words we've got. Matt
Arnold said last time for was it was also a
member of the organization. So how did you get into
this field of research with ASAPP and everything like that?
Speaker 2: Well, in terms of how I went to SUP, so
I joined ASAPP in twenty eleven, so I've kind of
a long term member. Now what twenty I guess what?
Thirteen years? I guess. But the reason I met s APP,
or reason that I sought them out, and again it
was only through searching and I saw some of their
content that were putting out. At the time, I was
very I will tell you the word critical. I was
kind of dubious about the methods that were being used
in paranormal investigations, and the ethics side really touched me
in regards to I was kind of go into a
paranormal investigation at a house by the two people I
was there. They were doing an investigation, and I kind
of kind of asked me to go along. And I
was very much aware that I was upstairs. I was
in like one of the bedrooms where some of the
phenomena was happening at a record ago. And shall we say,
but what I can actually hear downstairs was they kind
of lead investigator on another person, sort of having a
bit of a bicker, an argument with the person whose
house it was. And it dawned on me very quickly
that this person is going to say something pretentially to
the public, ten to found friends and family, that we
were not going to give them the answers that they
wanted to hear. They wanted to hear validation. There was
a ghost in there, there was a demon in there.
Who knows what they wanted. But my two friends were saying, hey,
have you checked your medication? You know, are you aware
of things like paradolia? Very grounded perspective. She clear had
already been to a medium, She clearly already had a
mind made about what was in this house. And here's
me upstair, And I realized, here I am sat on
their daughter's bed. You know, her daughter's what's seven years old?
And I could just see this room and I was like,
what is the potential that person is not happy with
an investigator in a house. We have no accreditation, We
are asking to go into people's houses. What is the
danger of that? And it really dawned on me at
that point where people who claim to be investigators are
doing this on a weekly basis. They're asking to go
into people's houses, but there are also people asking to
people to come to their house that I think there's
an inherent danger within that that people need to be
verified that he who vetted DBS checked. But also, you know,
we don't know that people who are going to go
and see no one's vetted them. We're doing that as
we go in. We have to try to trust their judgment.
And that kind of ethical quandary really took me out
of investigation and kind of stepped back for a while.
I did more research. I did a lot more writing,
just topic wise and interest wise. I kept a broad
network of family and friends within the paramoral community. But
non I joined ASLAP because at that time they were
conducting ethical questionnaire. However, I had a should ordered already
written one and then actually sends it out to three
hundred and forty nine different panel investigation groups across the
UK and across the United States, and I had three
replies and only one and them I actually filled in
the form And yeah, it wasn't nothing difficult or anything.
It was quite sensible questions I fought at the time.
So I can't act to myself, and I says, hey,
I can see you've got a conference coming off the
bath of this time. Is it possible I can announce
this question now that I've got could you? And they
were like Dave Wood, who was the channel at the time, says, hey,
come along. So I got to be liel Fanthorpe and
various members who I guess became my peers, and I
was very happy with that. So that's how that's how
I got into the more serious side of investigations.
Speaker 4: Out of interest, have you like, what would be the
worst incident of paranormal investigator paranormal investigators going into our
house and like the people being crazy or like it
or just going completely wrong, or what will be the
worst situation you've come across.
Speaker 2: I'm not aware that it's happened, but I can imagine
a scenario where a person might be schizophrenic. First might
have you know, personal deemers that they may fighting, they
might be dealing with alcoholism, they might be dealing with
of domestic vines or whatever. In the end of in
the situation where they believe that there's a ghost there,
that they believe something, and there's you who says, actually,
it might not be because they're hearing voices.
Speaker 6: For example.
Speaker 2: Now I'm not aware of a particular case this happened.
I can't cite it for me to say so, but
I can imagine that that is the danger that someone
will put themselves in. And that person isn't happy that
you've said that they believe it, and then suddenly you're
in a potential threat situation. This person doesn't like you
because they've already made it, and they've already made an
assertion that what you believe, and they suddenly either want validation,
they want you to cast it out, they want you
to exercise the place. They want you to do an
investigation there, you'd have to unless your sprite of mind,
unless your band's quite witty and got a sensible kind
of a calm in approach that you give this person,
that situation could go south really quickly.
Speaker 8: I think I.
Speaker 2: Don't know of in a case where that has happened,
but you know, there's suddenly been stories where, you know,
people would call a pizza guy around just to beat
him up. You know. Here here's people saying, hey, I've
got a ghost at my house, and there's a lot
of eager investigators who want to go around and investigate
anyone's house. There's a danger of what that could be,
and I'm just very conscious of that.
Speaker 4: Fred and Rose West could kind of like say hey,
do you want to come around, and could go.
Speaker 2: Very very much into pizza. I think I got as.
Speaker 4: A film similar to that out at the moment, called Heretic.
I went to see it. It is all right actually
with Hugh Grant, and it was basically two people from
the Mormons knock on the door saying do you want
a pamphlet on the Mormon So he brings them in
and basically kind of like terrorizes them. But yeah, I mean,
this could be a situation that could happen with the.
Speaker 2: Para handy tips for me in future, because I'm always
talking to religious orders on the doorstep.
Speaker 4: I think the diplomatic way of doing it. If I
was a paranormal investigator and I felt there was a threat,
diplomatic way would be saying like, I'm sure that you
feel that there's something there it warrants further investigation, investigation,
We have to go now, but I'm sure we can
come back and investigate it, and then obviously don't'll be.
Speaker 2: Covidd centallly a sensible way to approach it, And I
guess unless you're aware of it in the mind, but
I think a lot of people are so eager they'll
just go along with it anyway and then find themselves
in again, digging themselves into more danger. And I'm just
conscious that people aren't aware of what they might be
putting themselves in for.
Speaker 3: It's interesting, you know, talking about the ethics from that
kind of stuff. I mean, when I mentioned earlier about
the late Peter Fennick, who's just now passed away, he
was into researching near death experiences for the parapsychologists, and
he was also into psychiatry and that he's very well
respected in his field. But I did some work with
a sidecientists who worked under him doing ESP and I'd
feelow this whole form in like a questionnaire, are you
on any medication? All those sorts of things, you know. Yeah,
And once I ticked everything that he was happy with,
then it proceeded to the next stage. But yeah, I
felt very well protected. I'm not that I felt threatened
at all or anything. I was kind of intrigued by
the whole stuff. But because I was interested in this
sort of thing anyway, I was an eager person to
go along to it. But yeah, I mean that's the
thing he was trying to weed out literally anyone that
might be under some sort of medication or have you
heard voices or any any weird stuff like that. And
obviously I jumped through all those hoops and it proceeded
to the next stage. But it just shows how how
wrong it can go. Like you said, you heard the
argument downstairs with the couple and everything.
Speaker 2: I've been there on both sides of that. Actually I've
had accounted much like you have there or be turned
up and clear we weren't the only investigators who surned
up at that time, and whether everyone was taking the
number or happening at the same time, everyone in different rooms.
That was like, what is going on.
Speaker 3: It's like the equipment of a Tupperware party, but a
Spookerware party or something.
Speaker 2: You know, And are you aware that people do sell
them paranormal park and summers parties, but for ghosts? Would
you like to buy the sheets?
Speaker 8: Sir?
Speaker 2: You know? So getting back to your own abilm you
you you was interested in Star Trek? Wasn't it that
got you into the whole thing?
Speaker 6: Was that right? You mean?
Speaker 2: Was it Star Trek? Oh? Yes, it start Deck? Was
you in Star Trek? As I played a lieutenant in
a animated series BacT in twenty twenty two. I basically
played a character who eventually died. That's part of Federation one.
You've been down in other words, to the planet in
a red top? Is that what' was saying? It was
a pilots?
Speaker 8: Oh?
Speaker 2: Okay, how did that happen?
Speaker 6: Then?
Speaker 8: So?
Speaker 2: Actually, I guess it depends on what you know of
Star Trek. So there's there's what's known as Star Trek
the Wilderness years, which is basically after Enterprise ended, there's
a whole period of time, perhaps like eight years, where
there is no Star Trek. Basically Paramount has exhausted all
which storytelling capability, they've put it on the shelf for
a while. And in that time, a lot of the actors,
a lot of the filmmakers behind Star Trek are the
producers and so on, and she were kind of tapping
the audience a bit and making them, poking them to
do their own projects. And that's such what was born
out of that was Star Trek, New Voyages, Star Trek
Continues Hidden Fronts Here, which again ran for what seven
years of its own seasons, fully voiced, you know, fully
acted and so on, but independent. But because of them,
a lot of them had guest stars who were actually
from the shows would come in, like George d. Co
would come in, and I'm sure Horror would come in
to vok you know, check off and someone. So you
had original Star Trek characters played by the original actors
coming into fan films basically to make it cannon, and
that such sort of paramount allows that to happen because
they weren't doing anything so Hidden Frontier was the kind
of main one at that time, and that had an
spin offs itself that were really successful. And basically it
was the ten year anniversary of that show ending that
I basically I auditioned for a part and I got
to start in a role against so quite interesting alumni,
so I was very happy.
Speaker 8: Wow.
Speaker 2: So, so you had did a voice over and it
was an animation? Was it? It was? Yes, how it
was how it was pitched to me it was going
to be an animated web comic. It kind of clicked
through multiple choice where people would obviously you would hear
like the original voice actors as it were, or an
animation sequence and happened. Then you make a different choice.
But no, actually, what they decided to do in twenty
twenty two was actually released the whole thing as a
as a as a film. And so to do that,
So was it your own accent or did you have
to put on an accent or something? No, so actually,
and there's a couple of points where though I remember,
there were certain words that sound different in like American accents.
So I actually recorded both when I sent in my
tape basically my audition, and they were so happy that
I'd done that. That said they, oh, okay, that you
clearly were aware of filmmaking process, and I'm quite happy
with our recordings. And there that was actually what got
me the role.
Speaker 4: Ah wow, did they go for English or American accent.
Speaker 2: In this show, they actually went with the English one.
Speaker 6: Sir.
Speaker 2: That's interesting, the old Jean Loup Piccard approach and everyone
stood John Lup Piccard. He was French, but he spoke
with a clear Shakespearean accent.
Speaker 6: It's really very weird.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So moving on from Star Trek, we were talking
about in the Night Crawler, which you were kind of
done a lot of research and used this explaining off
our recording basically how you got involved in that. Can
you just recap slightly what the night Crawler is for
our audience and how you got involved with the Night
Crawler research that you've done.
Speaker 2: Okay, so how I got involved with it is I
think it was twenty nineteen. I was asked by ASSEP
via their media correspondent, how we've been into a company
from Los Angeles has been in such with us and
they want to know if you would come basically on
TV show talk to them about this new Nightcrawl video
that's come out, that's been recorded and it appears to
a trucker at the side of the road and there
was a they hit sorry, they'd seen something at the
side of the road and there was a case where
it appears to be as a boy in a street
and then this white pair of trousers runs out as
signed street and it kind of runs along the path. Actually,
it's quite good actually, and they wanted me to come
in and give my opinions on it and if I
believed it was a ghost. So I was quite fascinated
by this. But it was interesting that it had actually
come to me because many many years ago I was
a member, and I guess I still. I'm a member
of a website called Above top Secret, which is kind
of a you could say it leans conspiratorial. It kind
of leans into the kind of well considered the alternative topics.
It's very popular that come before social media took off,
but it leans very skeptically. So basically there's a kind
of hive mind of people who quite clickedly will go no, no,
this is this is the earth, This doesn't make any sense,
let's break this down. So and it's very popular within
the the eufology community. And so back in two thousand
and seven, in two thousand and eight, a member there
called Jose Cominio so he come ucho sorry. He had
posted video there of a video that had been sent
to him. He had been asked to go to a
film studio where a video footage of an alleged cryptid,
alleged alien basically had been seen at a person's garden.
A person was called Jose, And when he went to
this film studio, he saw saw this film and they
wanted him to say, Hey, this is an alien, this
is an extraterrestrial. We need to confirm that this is
the case. But because it was quite skeptical in regards
to his view of this, he was like, no, I'm
not going to say one way or the other. I'd
like to actually interview the person whose video this is.
And he got some footage of that time. He spoke
to Jose and he was very scared. He's very very upset.
He were worried about what this was. And then in
the March or February of two thousand and eight, we
shown at the MUFON conference. And at that conference, you know,
it really was who's who at the time. Ji Lea
was there, bred Sparks, you know, Chuck Modeling, George Nepp,
George Nori was there. So this this got a lot
of traction by the entire euthology community. Of what this being,
this creature was walking across someone's guarden, because of course
no one had never seen anything like this. But on
the loof top secret it was, they were kind of
like talking, wait, this isn't real. We we think this
has been done and constructed like this. So I was
able to go back to those posts and see how
they thought it was constructed. So what I did is
I made a nightcrawl. I made it and I went
out to the woods. I used the similar kind of fanbrick.
I went through some trilid error with its kind of
legs and its stepping motions, and I was able to
actually work out and create a fasimilar of that. The
nightcrawl is really interesting because what I was seeing the
last year or so was a lot of traction, particularly
on like the short form of social media like TikTok
YouTube shorts videos that were literally getting the hundreds of
millions of views, kind of cycling a lot of this
footage back from two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight.
There's one in twenty eleven which is quite good, actually
appears to be. It's from Umissibity Park where it's a
kind of tilted CCTV camera footage and it appears to
be crossing two bushes basically, but the footage is a
really interesting It appears to step with a kind of
weight mix foot as it moves across. And then there
was some more video footage as it came up twenty
sixteen in Poland there was another one that was quite poor.
Then twenty eighteen when I was first asked to speak
on behalf of Assam and I was like, you know, I
need to retap into this and you know, make the
video and show how he was done, because I was
I would. I'm not going to say I was jealoused
about how popular these videos were getting, but I was like,
someone needs to actually put this together in a constructive
way that makes sense that anyone can view and go, oh,
we can see the archive, We can see the kind
of verifiable data from the first video to the second
and how it became popular, why it became pop, and
actually how it was done. So it was kind of
a scene of a point of reference and they can
kind of be that at that point, a dumb and
dusted topic that anyone can then use as a reference video.
That was kind of my feeling when I went into
creating the Secret of the Nightcrawler.
Speaker 4: So when you created it, you created like a literal, physical,
robotic machine with fabric over it. And I could and
did you add any kind of effects to it, like
pixelation or no?
Speaker 2: No, no. I physically made this, yeah, a real so
it's it's it's made remarkably using a pair of silk trousers,
you know, attached to a co hangar, you know. And
how it was done. I was so surprised at how
easy it was done that I was just in my kitchen.
I was like, I literally got a clothesline because I thought,
how was clearly done. Is it's a clothesline. It's slightly
out of camera shot and they're just pulling it along
on a kind of loop. And I was like, let
me just recreate this. I strung the washing line around
a covered handle in my kitchen. I put this on,
put the coat hanger on on this washing line. I
picked it up, and then all of a sudden, one
of the legs moved, and I was like, wow. I
thought I would have to kind of puppet the legs
like a marionette. I didn't need to do with that
at all. All I had to do. Literally was just
shimmy left and right with the washing line, and it's
feats move absolutely perfectly. It literally moves like a the
neat Nightcrawler does in all those videos. It was actually
it was so good. I was liked this. This is
exactly how it was done, No fancy gadgetry needed. So
over the course of a couple of days, I went
to my local park at midnight. I strapped it a
round of goal and got it to walk. The problem
was I got there and my not vision camera didn't
work all the things.
Speaker 4: I was like, no, so that I be a bit
trippy for any dog walkers at a distance, like the
hell is going.
Speaker 2: It's the best dog in park out? I bet they
though it was because this was like midnight and I
wanted to deliberately stay away from everyone. No busters nearby,
no cars, and no there was these two walkers who
walk past. I know that you just see the eyes.
It's transfixed on what I was doing. Here's me with
this pair of trousers attached to a a go walking
this thing along with with a lady on with I've
got an a camera set up and I've got a
high vers vest on. So I look sort of officials,
and you can see the looking down and me going
what are you doing?
Speaker 8: There?
Speaker 2: And there? What do you do?
Speaker 4: You can get away with anything in a high vis vest,
isn't it good? The best way to kind of like
do a bank world is to like wear a high
visvest and make it look Yeah, where can people if
people want to see the original video and then your video,
where can you direct.
Speaker 2: And take the original video is available online? Where do
I have a link to that? I believe I do
so in my video, I certainly believed beneath it, I've
got all the sources within that, and I on my website,
I've got a video, I've got a bog called behind
the Secret of the Night crowl and I've got all
links that are in there to your website quickly.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 2: So my website literally is Christian Lander dot com. So
I own my own domain. So it's really interesting. Most
of the video footage that you will find a line
of the night Crawler actually is a derivative footage of
a basically a handcam, but is at that move on conference.
So once someone basically had a web handcam, there was
recording the video that Victor Camacho was showing there as
a documentary, So basically a law. The most of the
footage you'll see off nightcrawlers online are actually all that
particular handcam footage recording that video that's our country. Isn't
that bad? Actually, it's worth checking tracking down. So if
you go on YouTube, you'll find as a particular a
YouTube person called at rogue Alien. He's a US war veteran.
Actually he's a former Air Force pilot, so he's the
person who recorded that with a handcam YouTube dot com
at Rogualien. And again he's done quite a few videos
over time, but it's certainly the one that's got the
most footage, just got like seventy four thousand views or whatever,
so it's worth looking at that one. So there was
one that I saw in your presentation where you showed
the various clips, and I think it was like two
night crawlers coming down the street are like a papa
and a kid version the night Brawler, And I was thinking, well,
if this is your Pulley system pull in, that's going
to be complicated doing two of them, isn't it. Really?
So on a particular video you're talking about, it's right,
it's basically it's there's a bush either side of it.
There's there's like a tree or some kind of shrubbery
either side, and the camera is kind of tilted sort
of like twenty degrees to the left. So basically nine,
having these bushes either side, it can actually hide anybody
who's there. And then the character walks one side to
the other, like between the trees are between the two bushes.
So I think, if you've got a mate there who's
willing to do it with you, you know, it's it's pretty
easy to do if there's two of you. The only
thing that I would say, and I'm saying this from memory,
I've really got a real look at the footage again,
is that your footage displays the pair of trouser swinging
back was falls as they're coming down your pulley line
from one tree to another or whatever it is, and
you the legs are flaying, aren't they? Or did you
wait down the feet? Did? Yes?
Speaker 6: Legs?
Speaker 2: So I know I know exactly what we're talked about here.
It's the problem I actually had initially. So when I
in my living room here and again at that field
where I first tried it, the legs weren't weighted, so
why it had actually don't know got hold of and
I went back to those original video footages on above
top secret about how they thought it was done, and
their suggestion was that actually was in the US you
have you have baseball right with the long baseballs, but
you actually have these half sized baseball bats basic called cambats.
That's what they believe was inside each of the legs
at the very bottom to keep it sturdy. Like, yes, Chell,
we don't have that here. Someone was like, what can
I use? And what I did use? I actually got
a kitchen roll tube of didn't side like a long
It's little about a foot long, and I was able
to put a hair tied at the bottom of the
top of the tube and then detally attached pegs to
it to kind of creative weight. And as I added
more pegs, it actually looked like it was more because
I filmed it in a woodland and there was a
lot of wild grass around. So the problem I had
even when filming is actually it would actually catch on
the grass. I had to actually find a way actually
making it a more heaviest way. It's actually more pegs
to it, and when I pulled it actually it then
fixed that problem. I was able to walk fine. Of course,
in there's original videos from the US of course, Joses
footage and the ones from Usimbiity Park of course that
they're they're shot on clearly lawns. You know, it's perfect.
It looks really nice. So the original witness was alerted
because he heard noises outside or something and he thought,
what the hell's that and he came out and that's
when he spotted these nightcrawlers going down the street. Is
that right? Well, so no, it's actually it's in his
garden actually, so he said, I think it was. He'd
his dog was reacting to something in the environment. So
and then he went out and bought CCTV's CTV CCTV
camera sorry and had it in his bedroom window looking
out in his garden. And that's when he said that
he was looking at the footage and that's when he
got scared as this being kind of crossed the garden.
The very first one is really really tall and if
you if you only use the coat hanger, it actually
does create that kind of drape effect of the legs.
It's not very animated. On the same piece of footage,
it's might four minutes later, so clearly it's enough time
to basically go back outside, get it, take it all
way back to be alone of the garden, back upstairs,
and do it again. Think he was faking it himself,
I believe so yeah, okay, not so faking it, but
he created some interesting and the second video soorry the
second it's one long video, but it's two clips of it.
The second clip of it is clean much that it's
making much bigger strides. It's much clearer that it's moving
there left to right across the gardens, so you can
see the fabric moving much easier. And with my own
pair of trousers or my partner's pair of pajamas, it's
it's it kind of replicates that really effectively.
Speaker 4: So do you think, kind of, hand on heart, this
is definitely a hoax or do you think kind of
like you've reproduced it, but who knows it might be
there might be something behind its feeling.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think it's necessarily encrypted. What has happened, though,
is the kind of crypted tourism has taken over, the
kind of the paranormal economy. It's now actually become like
Lessie is like champ. It's like Bigfoot. It's now actually
got you know, it's got merchandise. You know, it's it's
grown legs, as they say, some DEMI is now you know,
it's quite cute. I've seen seen if we were to
take it away from the community and show that it's
not that, Oh, what do you validate that entire market
that exists. No, I don't think so. But I don't
think it's set a being of any kind. I don't
think it's an alien of any kind. But what is
really interesting is we're actually watching live folklore evolve. You know,
in the very first video it was it could have
been an alien, and suddenly there was two and then
so technically it's got a charm, it's got a twin
and later ones. You know, it's like the story has evolved.
You know, it's now got eyes. You know, it's kind
of that the folklore of the night Crawler has evolved.
And I was as saying to you a few minutes ago,
I was asked by ASPS to put another presentation together
on any topic I liked. So I was looking at
the phenomena of Nottingham, which is where I live, and
I came across a story you most may well be
aware of. There's a place called George's Lane. It's a
North and Nottingham place called Calverton, and basically it's a
long stretch of kind of winding road that goes through
the countryside. And the most related phenomena there cases go
back to the nineteen thirties and the nineteen seventies in particular,
where the driver would look in the rearview mirror and
they'd see someone sat in the back of his car,
usually wearing a black robe or whatever. When I was
looking at these cases, I found a case from around
nineteen seventy four of a pair of trousers running out
the side of the street. Oh that rary Rae And
I was like, if only I'd have found that a
few weeks ago.
Speaker 3: Ah ah, it's Wallis and Gromit the wrong trousers.
Speaker 2: So but the other clips then, apart from the original
one of the night Core, there was other clips that
are servicing later on by other people. Do you think
they were like that it was literally other people or
the same person doing the clip. No. I think the
first one clue is done by the Hosely, the one
who lives in that particular house. The the most famous one,
the one that is most clearous, is from twenty eleven,
which is in the Yosemite National Park where there is
it's a guy who The story actually is really quite interesting.
It's CCCV of a person's house and it's kind of
looking at their car. The two figures happened to go
past the back of the car between two bushes. They
take that footage and they show it to a friend
of theirs who happens to be a YouTuber who makes
paranormal videos. So they showed it to him and says, hey,
you know, you might be really interested in this piece
of footage, and in that piece of footage. In his
description and again i'll link that to you in a second,
the rescripture is quite clearly he says, this looks like
the same kind of courage as that that was the
Nightcrawler in two thousand and seven, So he clearly was
aware of that piece of footage. And he says, hey,
this is what I think it is, but now it
appears to be two of them. So he's making those comments.
So I don't necessarily think he was the Hope schulis
they or the creator, but he clearly was the one
who's got the He was given the video by the
CCTV owners, So there is actually ach of customy should
we say, and that video has got like cerbently four
million views on YouTube or whatever. I think crazy and then
we better do a Nightcrawler video and y.
Speaker 4: One of the biggest problems is, like, I think this
would be less of a thing in two thousand and seven,
but certainly now CGI in AI is so advanced it
is incredibly difficult to work out even if something like
a cryptid did exist, what would be credible, genuine footage
and what would be something that AI two thousand and seven,
it sounds like it would be like a mechanical thing
that would be used as a hoax. But AI these
days is so good you can't you can't tell it is.
It's difficult.
Speaker 2: I know it's it was a bit of fortune you
three days ago, and I posted it to the asset page,
and it's got a bit of attraction over the course
of the last week, last week or so. I mean,
it shows what the original fortage clearly was someone on
the side of a boat. It's clearly out at c
or acid in the ocean. Sorry, and then what begins
to be a whale that comes next to the boat
and the person reaches out, and then the footage kind
of takes a bit of a change and basically a
UFO exits, the exits the water, flies with the sky
and flies off. And the only reason you can't tell
it's the other reason you cantil it's it's an AI
generated video at a certain point because it was original
footage that has then become an AI BIS of footage
is that the person's hand goes a really awkward angle
so that where where the arm is reaching out to
colle touched the whale effectively, which forms the basis of
the dome shall we say where it transposes to the
UFO video of the arm takes unnatural right turn that
wasn't there It would he be even more convincing. And
it's actually quite a good video for the sake.
Speaker 3: Well, I've noticed that I've been looking at a lot
of these videos coming online lately, and it's like, oh,
this is the best footage, and it even shows the
footage from different angles that various witnesses have allegedly filmed
it from different angles. But you know, I mean, it
seems to me that whoever's faking these videos has kind
of clearly thought all that through, saying, Okay, I need
to have a shot that slightly goes out of focus now,
and again I need to at least cover it from
through different angles to give the impression that it's really there.
So I'll just go and film my street from four
different corner points, and then I'll have the same uphone
later on. And they put it up said, well, it
clearly is a real UFO because it's filmed from all
these different angles, you know, and you can hear people
in the streets saying hey man or something like that,
even though they don't seem to be referring directly to
the UFO. He's got some sort of soundtrack that appears
to be noise and stuff in the background, but it's
the UFOs are looking so crystal clear. Whereas in the seventies,
when you've got a photograph of UVOTE, it'd always be
a bit grainy and fuzzy because they're normally fixed focused
cameras Kodak brown is and things they're trying to take
them with, Whereas today you can get all these telephoto
lenses of fast filmed photography and all sorts of things,
and it always looks too perfect.
Speaker 2: I mean, what would you think to that person? Is
that kind of the fair argument?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 2: There is. There's two points I'd had to make about that.
So what is you make a really interesting point where
it's like the four cameras. People these days are really
smart filmmakers. Everyone now wants to actually be an influencer,
a viral video maker, particularly should we say the younger
life gen z X whatever they're called. They want to
become popular. And I don't blame them because some of
the videos fascinating. You watch some of the TikTok videos
or YouTube shorts. Some are smart, some are funny, some
are well made, and you're going, Wow, that was really cool.
I like that. I'm gonna keep watching this. So I
think the idea is that people want to become a
video content creator because it's so easy to do. We've
all got a phone, you know, the software is very good,
it's in the cloud. You can make phenomenal videos really easily,
really cheaply, because the software is available to do. So
the other side of it is, when you talked about
people a few years ago were making videos, it was
very difficult to tell if they were hoaxed or where
they we're put together. You're right, I think they It
was certainly much harder to do. Cameras were certainly a
bit more rigid. There was a kind of a lot
more formulaic, shall we say, But do you remember perhaps
early twenty tens where there was a particular viral video
going around where people thought there was skyquakes going on?
There is like these like trumpets in the skies with
do you remember that? So and there was lots of
people like they were looking up at the sky and
there was sky trumpets. This is at the end of
the world, isn't the angels coming? And and there was
about four particular videos that would always get shared. And
then there was one where this dog was reacting, Oh
do you hear that? Do you hear what's going on?
So it looks real and I think it was Hailey
Stevens on her blog Halley as a Ghost, And it
turn of is actually the same soundtrack and all these
different videos it says the particular there's a particular bird
that makes a tweet in it that happens to me
in all the videos.
Speaker 4: Oh, I say, yeah, that's the exact way of finding
out there.
Speaker 2: Everyone would think these sky trumpets were real than the
Ananakia coming or whatever. All the angels are here at
the end of the world is coming. But no, if
it wasn't for that pretty distinct bird that tweets him mate,
it wouldn't.
Speaker 3: Be m So what is your take on the paranor?
I mean, it sounds like you're a fair investigating and
you try and look at it from all the different angles.
Speaker 2: But do you actually believe in such things, for instance,
as ghosts or do you think is to make the
leave or something. But it's a good question. Actually, I
guess my mother experienced what she claimed to be ghosts
when she was a young girl, so I guess that
kind of that filtered into me being fascinated by those accounts.
I came across the readi as digest books as a kid,
I came across the Osborn Book of Ghosts, as we
all did, and I was fascinated by these accounts that
are out there that happened to people, and particularly when
you know often someone who's had an encounter and you
believe them because they believe that the account had happened.
So I found myself wanting to believe them. And over time,
I've had a few encounters with things that I don't
understand or explain, and I don't tend to share them
too often the ones that I do, and I kind
of like it from a kind of grounded perspective. What
did I see? And how do I know what I
saw was real? And what was that? Other things that
could have influenced me? And you know, that's kind of
how I would approach a conversation with someone. Have you
taken in all the variables? Could you consider this? Would
this have been a possibility? And you can kind of
they go, oh, yeah, maybe that's got into it. I
didn't think of it that way. That's how looked at
some of my own encounters. Should we say? And I
think it's an interesting way to take you. But do
I believe there are ghosts out there? I personally think
we're not necessarily looking at ghosts of the dead. I
think somehow we look at it some kind of time
a normally that might be happening. I think we're looking
at some kind of almost natural phenomena that appears to
be moving from our environment, and somehow there's an interaction
between our mind the environment that perhaps whether it be
temperature or electromagnetic, anomally, and people when we talk about
ghost phenomena, we're talking about UFOs, beings, portals. I think
we're also we're using too many words for what potentially
might be the same phenomena happening that might well be
a natural phenomena occurring in our environment. For what that is,
I don't know now.
Speaker 3: That reminds me of the One of my favorite ghost
stories is the guy that was the plumber in York,
and I said it a number of times on our channel,
and I've written about it. And that was a guy
called Harry Martindale who in nineteen fifty three was an
apprentice plumber, is like sixteen or seventing years old at
the time, his first other job, and it was an
English heritage kind of commission to basically renovate this Chancellor's house,
I think in York. And he was tasked with going
down into the basement and drilling holes basically for some
pipes for central heat to be installed. And he put
his ladder in a trench that he found in the basement,
not knowing that a few few months earlier archaeologists had
dug this trench themselves and found a Roman road below
this chancellor's house, which was like from the seventeen hundreds
or something, so that it had a history history be
Leath House, and he didn't know that, of course, so
he put his He thought it was a great place
to wedges ladder and secure it. And he went up
his ladder and spent about four hours drilling away these holes.
And after a while he heard the sound of a
trumpet or a horn lovely enough, and he thought, what
the bloody hell's out and he said it was just
one note, and he thought, that's a bit of an
awful song on the radio that someone's playing. So he
could hear something which is interesting, And eventually it got
louder and louder and louder, and before you knew it,
he suddenly looked down and he said a Roman soldier
appeared below him, because he was about eight or nine
feet up on the ladder, and it came through on
a horse, and followed by about another ten Roman soldiers,
and the very last room soldier to come through was
the guy blown a great big horn, and they appeared
to be walking on the Roman road. But he was
so scared by his experience that he fell over off
his ladder and he hid into the corner of the basement,
hoping that he would be seen by them. He said
they was as solid as anything, except he said, their
legs disappeared. But when they approached and came through to
the Roman road section which had been excavated, their full
legs appeared, which is interesting. And they appeared not to
notice him. They just carried on with their task of
what they're doing. He said he could even hear them talk.
And he said they could see them unshaven. They weren't
like pristine condition, and they were covered in mud splatters
and things like that. Now this was in like November,
I think of nineteen fifty three, and the Romans were
covered in mud splatters. And what you talk about, is
it some sort of time anomaly, I wondered, because the
same Romans were seen like about seven years later by
a lady in the house. Her dogs actually spotted them
first of all that, and they were barking, so it's
you know, independent waknesses, but they were dogs. But this
lady spotted them. But she was upstairs looking down into
the basement and saw the Romans from different anger. But
this time is that the Romans repeated in the same action.
They were asleep on the horse, like they'd all go on.
The horses were marching them back to their base or something,
and the horses knew where to go, but the Romans
were fast asleep, so they were doing a slightly different action.
And she saw them in the February of nineteen fifty
seven or something like that, so again it's the winter months.
So my kind of hypothesis on that was that they
were somehow peering through time to the same time period,
the same day or the same season if you like,
back to say a thousand years before, because it was
their winter's day a thousand years before. Hence the covered
in mud, the rain splatters and things like that, and
they were walking on that road, so they're almost like
grooves of record at different points in time. On one
and the record jumped hitter like, and he saw into
that period of time like the lady did, and they
weren't spirits of the dead, although clearly those Romans had
died a long long time ago. There is what they
call the stone tape theory. I'm sure you feel it's
that one where they think that it's like a recording
but my thing is that I don't think it was
recording because it's separate actions on different times. Otherwise the
lady who saw it like a few years later would
have seen exactly the same thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's what.
Speaker 3: I consider that like a time anomaly, and they didn't
appear to be aware of him, so it's more like
a recording, if you like, or appearing through a time window.
And there's been cases where people from the past have
seen the people of the future. Irene Allen has said
that she was walking around her son's house. He was
shown her around and she went into the top floor
and came face to face with the maid from the
Victorian Times or something. The maid gasped in fright as
she spotted at Irene. Irene's jaw dropped at the same time,
and then suddenly the maid disappeared as almost they spotted
each other and they were intruders into each time period.
Speaker 2: Is a very weird thing going on, and you know,
so one of the projects I'm currently looking at is
this phenomenal nsseium shipping. One of the accounts actually mirrors
that encounts what you just had there exactly. So there's
a place in nottingum shit called Limby. Really, I would
call it the Village of the fourteen because every kind
of fourteen weird anomaly is reported to have happened in
this village. So I'm there with a particular lady who
was giving She was walking me through the encounter that
she had where she walked across this field from Limby
to Papalwick, and she says, well, I stood here, and
she says, I looked down here and there was three
men behind this bush. But they're all dressed like round
head soldiers. One even had a pike, but they were
holding it down and they were cowering down and were
hiding behind this bush. And as I went around to look,
I could see that they were focused in the field.
And over there, over there there was a There was
a man on a horseback and he had a in
a scabber down the side and he was looking out
trying to find out where these people were. But then
I looked down as these three soldiers and we made
eye contact, and he jumped and fell over. He's never
seen someone like me, and then all of a sudden
seem damished as wow, love, Wow, that's incredible, isn't it? Yeah,
So what was your What did you think that was
a time anomaly or something that normally? Yeah, there's a
I don't think they clearly. I don't know what them.
I don't know what the trigger is it. I don't
know what the mechanism is behind it. But I find
it really fascinating.
Speaker 3: Hmmmmm. It's interesting. Now, what's the thunderbolt incident from November
nineteen eighty seven that you've been associated with?
Speaker 2: Okay, so if you most people who've touched my name
would tend to find that as the kind of a
main story that perhaps most heges were famous, both the
most associated account. So in nineteen eighty seven, there is
an account in a town that's not too far from
here called something in Ashfield, though it's actually closely more Kirkby.
If you know what Mansfield is, it's on that road
is on the Age sixty in nineteen eighty seven. It
is November twelfth, it's one point thirty in the morning.
A everyone in the village, and I've spoke to many people,
they were all they all know about the explosion that happened.
Most people associated with the explosion as the the UFO
of money, because there was an Ashfield councilor who says, hey,
what we saw. It sounded like the blitz. It hit
multiple houses, loads of windows down a particular street. Some
were blown in, some were blown out. There's a metal
slide was melted, all the all the TV aerials along
this particular stretch were melted and damaged and burns. Loads
of trees were burns and loads of woodland. What was
identified was that this this craft should we say, came
down in a place called Thieves Wood. It then took
off again. Actually the definition that's always uses it bounced
it so it hit the ground, came up again and
then crashed into an area called Annesley Hollow, which actually
is the same ground as Honesley Hall. So how I
found out and make this case was through a number
of people who not needed they had lived that they
had experienced that case. It wasn't too far from me.
So two particular individuals who were part of that case.
So one was a gentleman called Alan Smith.
Speaker 5: He was a.
Speaker 2: National Express bus driver. He told me that he used
to drive the buses basically the coaches from Nottingham up
to Mansfield, up to Sheffield and so on. On a dearly
basis six study in the morning and he says that
one particular army was traveling at the A sixty and
he was first thing in the morning, no passages on board,
and right in front of him he said that there
was a there was a HGV a flatback lory and
on the back of it was something strapped down covered
in black tar palling. But it was flanked by police
and military. This particular area on this day happened. The
military police them and they locked down this era for
four days after this. So there was seven There was chinooks,
there was helicopter, there was ageok. Sorry, there was lynxes
and gazelles that came over. They were searching for debris.
A particular house was hit. A chimney got destroyed. I
speak to the people who replaced that chimney. There was
another house that was hit and had subsidence happened to it.
The building had to be demolished. In fact, the wallpaper
and all the bricks inside the upper floor of this
house were all burned on the inside. The roof got
covered in a silver material. The Department of Investigations Special
Investigations from London came up and took samples of that
silver metallic substance and material. Where did the visage where
this craft came down in Thieves Wood, there's a ninety
foot burn zone basically on the ground. They ripped up
all the ground, they covered it in clay. They reaput
a new soil in there. The Forestry Commission put silver
birch down there and these rows of trees down there
to replace what happened. So really interesting case because everyone
remembers how the streets were all locked down. I've got
reports from that time where all the taxis all had
to be redirected around the area, and so we had
a fasting, not a UFO case. It was kind of
a dismissed despite the fact that there was a lot
of evidence happened, that something happened, and that something came
down and it was replaced and it was moved. One
of the ladies who came to me, she said she
lived opposite the fire chief of that time, so the
fire the head fire Marshall. She lived opposite his house.
She was twelve years old at the time, so she
can remember the crash happening. She said that it's soundly
like lock could be happening because that was, of course,
that was still quite fresh in the mind of Pevenm
at that time. They thought a massive vehicle had come down.
I think I've got forty and I've got fifty four
accounts of people who heard the explosion. Only five people
saw something that night, and all five of them say
something completely different about what the object was in this guy.
As such, there's a number of reports out there, but
there are actually only three that I've ever been published.
One ended up in a Nexus magazine, one was on
Stephen Kreer's website, and one was in a book by
John King called Cosmic Top Secret, a book I've got
here in above Top Secret, he was talking to two
members of Before at the time, called Andrew Emerson and
Dominic Belgin, and they had been on site a week later,
and they made a report of that. They took photos,
they took reports of what they saw, the clay that
was underneath, and so on. So have a really fascinated,
really detailed case of a UFO came down. And as such,
I was what's fast, what's most remembered about it is
Actually this happened the same time as the Battle of
Britain was airing on Central TV as the raid happened
on England, so that this is what's most about this
particular case of the Battle of Britain. Happened all of
a sudden, the half starts vibrating, rumbling. But then for
most people in that area, they either don't want to
talk about it, or they the ones that do. It
was a UFO that happened. What the government and the
Met Office agree that it was a bolt from the
blue and they did not pay and any insurance, the
insurance for this area was not paid off because it
was an act of God, it was active weather. But
what actually turns out to be the case is that
I spoke to a lady whose partner was a Chinook
pilot who landed the Chinik in this field that happened there,
and her report of what he told her is that
a Harrier jump jack came down, because of course it's
not going we have Scramton's not too far away, and
the harry jump jack was developed at Rolls West Aerospace,
which again is literally just behind my house. And what
came down was a pilot that did a loop to
loop in a Harrier, which is not the users of
things to do. And he'd actually come out of his
loop too low. If the Sherwood Observatory, for instance, has
just opened this week, massive kind of big thing happening
up there. Because this area has the same elevation of
height as the ural mountains do in Russia, this place
is really quite high in nineteen eighty seven, it's not
very well built up. There's only a handful of kind
of scrappy kind of areas of housing. So the perception
is that the pilot didn't know how load he was
when he came out of his is loop. He then
pulled up, realizing that he was over a residential estate,
pulled up and is his burner basically is what burned
the back of the houses. And that report comes to
me from only one account from a lady called Rachel Mason,
who says that she lived at the end of this street.
She was twelve years old at the time. She heard
the explosion happen down the street Sanafenbad looked at the
window and she saw a plane come over her house.
The whole house robble, the whole house vibrated, and she
saw as she saw a plane come over, and that
plane came down in the woodland, took off again, you know,
but it's back wings. The alien on the very back
was damaged, and then it veered back off again and
then crashed in the ground. But so her view is
it was a plane. I know what it was. It
looked like the after burner of plane was an orange
ring that came over my house and U jimmum is
what she saw. But everyone else never saw that view.
He only saw the two buildings that were hit. And
of course there was a massive explosion in UFOs happened.
The exposure happened to be a boiler of an upstairs
flight of a guy called Les, and he ended up
on the news the following day on Central TV saying,
that's all a UFO hit my house. He had gone
it remarkably, you know, he'd gone in the into the
kitchen to make himself a cup of tea. And had
he not done that, he'd been in his living room
where the back boiler of his the living room, the
kind of the chimney breast, effectively was superheated by the
burner of this this plane, and it caused all the
bricks in that to fly out into the living room.
And had he not done that, and he wouldn't be
with us. But it's a remarkable story that goes from
be a UFO case it hasn't hasn't in between b
in the center because what happens is that three Russians
to put this guy's house. This is nineteen eighty seven mm.
So so the guy whose house was hit and kind
of ludged over that kind of had subsidence, all the
all the kind of doors in the house, all but
to the side. He was very angry. He's very upset.
He goes down to where the crash site is, where
all these military years and the police are. He gets
told to go away. In a number of times they tell him, hey,
if you keep doing this, we're going to basically you
ring you in for harassment. You're going to get arrested,
never going to see your family again.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 2: So this was dead secret because all we know there
was and all of a sudden you got the Department
of Special Investigations of coming to this house taking these
taking this silver material off his roof and tell her
to be chaffed. And then these three Russians started up
three days later going what's going on here? Scat it
him to the point he never spoke about it again.
After that I managed to speak to his care because
he's unfortunately in a dementia care home at the present time,
and he's the person who was his carer who lived
their house with him of course, lived through that experience
with him on. But so it's a phenomenal story that
goes from one extreme to another, but it has a
grounded story. And the instriguing point is the government and
the Met Office still refuses to acknowledge the plane happening
because otherwise they'd still have to pay out for the insurance.
So the government government continued to make note that it
was a weather incident, that it was a UFO case,
so they didn't have to pay out for insurance.
Speaker 3: Because I was going to ask if it was an
air crasher, for like a Harrier jump jet, I would
presume AI that the pilot would eject once he's in trouble,
and all ejections are logged and an air crashes are logged,
and then there's an air crash investigation unit from Farnborough
or something like that would come after and look at it,
which you know, you're caughting off the area and you
wouldn't pile a load of trees up and silver birches
and things, and you go around trying to find all
the bits of the aircraft and try and think, well,
which bit was it that caused this to go wrong
or something, you know, fought the instrument panel, pilot error,
and they collecked it all together, and they're really lay
it all out in their hangar, all the.
Speaker 2: Bits like they did with mocker Bee or whatever. Didn't
they Yeah, that happened, but I guess that that did
happen behind closed doors. What doesn't happen anywhere because it
would mean they're culpable to the events to happen. So
this is what I think Ben's actually traveled up to
the air and I think, you know, to the Nottingham
Sheer Roswell or something you called. That's what this case is,
that the police the Notts Roswell. But yeah, people have
started peeling you back the stories and talking to people
finding out accounts. When Michel Mason came forward to me
and said, hey, you know, I saw a plane come
down and there was this particular lady. She said that
she was pregnant actually at the time, and she was
sound her living room floor. There was a table in
front of her family would pay in the game of Life,
and she could see out of the bay window, and
she says, the whole house started to vibrate, and she
looked and she was the only one who has the
perspective of looking out this bay window, and she has
this green triangle looked like a Christmas tree, was all
illuminated from the underneath. Came over the house. That was
rumble as it went over, and then I realized it
was a plane, but it was literally above the house. Wow.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's incredible. Whatever it is, it's an incredible thing.
Be interesting to see. There's any other videos out.
Speaker 2: There on there right?
Speaker 3: I think we have to draw this to a close now.
But as it's our Christmas edition, we'd like to find
out what your plans are for next year, if you've
got any paranormal wives or whatever, And what are your
plans for Christmas?
Speaker 2: What are my plans for Christmas? That's a very good
question actually, and Christmas are a guest. It is only
a month away. I work in the field of retail leadership,
as they say, so Christmas for me right now has
been bombarded on me since July, and I think I'm
going to be quite happy to have Christmas without any
Christmas lights. I'll not see Christmas boxes and displays set up,
and I'm probably going to go to my partner's family.
They tend to have a rather big Christmas dinner as
it were. I was quite good fun to have family
and friends over and try to get in touch with
the people that we don't always get to see. You know,
that is the best thing about this period of time,
whether it be you, or whether it be Honeker or
whatever people celebrated this time of year as well. It's
good to just reconnect with family, reconnect with friends, and
I think going forward for twenty twenty five, that is
the one thing I want to do. I'm very much
aware I've kind of not hermitized myself this year. I've
made a lot of contacts, more people than ever, and
I don't necessarily spend the time getting around to catching
up with everyone. And that's I think it gonna be
my commitment night next year twenty twenty five, is to
make sure I do that.
Speaker 3: I mean, I know, you got out in twenty twenty
four with a pair of trousers and a coat hanger,
but it's not quite the same.
Speaker 2: Social life really is it all right? Well, thank you
very much. Indeed, Christian Lander, we'll look forward to more
reports coming from you in the future. And will you
be speaking at ASSAPP in the near future. I know
you did a live presentation for them a few weeks back,
and will we be doing anything at their next conference?
Speaker 5: Maybe?
Speaker 2: Quite possibly. It all depends where the ASSEP survives its
current situation. Internally. I think the webinars will certainly continue,
I think presentation certainly will, and I think it will
exist in some form next year, but hopefully it's not
in the guys that it currently is. Oh well, let's
hope it molts into something more coherent and better for everyone,
and may the best of it continue wherever form it
goes on. Certainly, so that was Christian Lander. They're talking
to us about the night Crawlers and all. So the
Nottingham Sheer Roswell crash. Ben, you went up there a
couple of years ago, you went up there twice, and
you to investigate this alleged crash or something in Nottingham Shit, Yes,
very much so.
Speaker 6: In fact, I can't take credit for searching this because
I was assisted by two local euthologists. This is Daniel
Bostock and Nigel Crowley, and without their input I would
have been I would have had nowhere to go with this.
I essentially re What I did was essentially reopening, reopened
a case that had been kind of forgotten. It was
first emerged in it was actually took place in nineteen
eighty seven, in November of nineteen eighty seven, in which
there was allowed which began with a loud, explosive noise
in the skies near above a place called well, it's
a region around Kirkby and Ashfield, Mansfield and that area
in north of the city of Nottingham. And this was
followed by all kinds of stories about what happened next,
but we know a lot of damage was done to
the local area. Buildings were damaged by the shock wave
and things like that. I very much wish I could
have been involved in the interview with Christian, but unfortunately
I was just I think I was just too tired.
It was you are busy. I think I'm overdoing I
think I'm overdoing it a bit, actually need to slow down.
But I die myself interviewed Christian over this issue a
few years ago, and he himself has done his own
series of research into this, we have come to different
conclusions about what caused this. Christian beliefs it was some
kind of accident involving a Harrier jump jet. I believe
in he and I didn't think that quite fitted the evidence.
I can't remember all the details about what we discussed,
but I suspect what happened, what I thought happened was
based on witnessed eyewitness testimony and other things. I mean
a good resources, actually one of them. As always, Nexus
magazine creates a magazine in the world for this sort
of thing. It's They did a piece about this written
by what's his name in Australian researcher whose name I
can't think I should Joe Viles. Written by Joe Viles,
an Australian researcher about this and what I spec happened
was an unknown object, some kind of flying object emerged
in the area and actually came to grief on the
Earth's surface. It landed at a place called Thieves Wood, which
resulted in a large fire. It then took off back
into the air and eventually came to rest at a
place called Annesley Hare, which is a derelict stately home
not not far from the M one, just near one
of the junctions, the N one. This was, This was
then gathered. It was the object, whatever it was, was
taken away by the government. We don't know how much.
We don't know many details of We don't have many
details about what this object was, what it looked like,
but it appears there was a Rosweld type There was
a Rosweld type response to this. But it's extremely interesting case.
And the reasons why I didn't quite go with Christian's
ideas was he brings up evidence such as the possible
effects of the jet exhaust on several areas, which doesn't
quite fit. I mean in terms of the heat effects
and things like that, and I don't have I can't
remember the details, but I'm sure Christian explained in his
interview what did leads details were, But I did disagree
with him on that, but we had a good discussion
about it.
Speaker 3: Well, for anyone that's interested, they can they can kind
of see your point of view. Go to your website
at what's your website then.
Speaker 6: Or panel hp A and w O Hospital Porters against
the New World, or if you go there, go to
her panel radio and just puts Christian's name into the
search box and you'll see there are I think three
interviews I did with him on various subjects.
Speaker 2: So they can also look for the Nottingham Sheer Roswell
with ben em Lynn Jones's on your own case field
work there. Yeah, that's yeah cool. Yeah, So Ben, what
you got lined up for Christmas? I'm going to basically
have a rest and I'm going to.
Speaker 6: And probably go to my daughter's house because she's having
a kind of little get together with her friends, and
she's inviting me around because everyone else in my family
is going to be away, and so I'm going to
go and spend the day with her.
Speaker 2: And it's nice, excellent, excellent. And what plans you got
for next year?
Speaker 6: So many I can't really tell because I think we
don't really have time to go into But I'm speaking
in a couple of events. I'm speaking at the Bowing
UFO group. I'm speaking at the Daughter Earth Mysteries group.
I'm hoping to go back to Contacts in the Desert.
I'd love to go there again. And a couple of
other things I've got in line, can't think of them
off on top of their head.
Speaker 2: Great, Okay, Andy, So what's your plans for Christmas and
what you're doing in the New Year? As plans are.
Speaker 4: Christmas not a lot, just relaxing, I think, watching TV,
eating lots of food, getting drunk. Usual plans for New
Year expand tuned in events. So at this point, if
anyone wants to join tuned with the de tuned in
events on Facebook, Instagram, et cetera, then we've got quite
a lot of things going on for Christmas period. Then
it kind of dies out in January, goes a bit dead,
and then it picks up with the usual about February time.
We're doing more psychic suppers. They tend to be doing
quite well. So people sit down, eat some food, and
kind of mediums do their things. So yeah, maybe a
few more than the next year.
Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent.
Speaker 3: And Gary, are you going back to Mexico and the
New yor you staying in hemel Hempstead.
Speaker 6: You know what, I'm going to be in Hemel Hempstead
for Christmas.
Speaker 2: That's going to be a quiet one.
Speaker 4: Are you going to imagine on the magic roundabout?
Speaker 3: Yeah, a little bit of what'sker to help him round it?
Speaker 2: Sorry, I was gonna say it's amazing how many people
get scared of that magic roundabout confusing.
Speaker 3: I was confused in actually when the first went round there,
But once I realized how to.
Speaker 2: Approach it, it was.
Speaker 3: Actually quite easy because what happens the mistake people make
They somehow take the center part of it thinking.
Speaker 2: That's a roundabout. It's not. That's just diverge, and you
just treat each roundabout as a separate roundabout.
Speaker 6: That's what you do exactly.
Speaker 7: If you take someone that's never been on it before
and drive through it at high speed and watch their face.
Speaker 2: I love another country.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of people freak out about it, so yeah,
so an interesting. It is one of the most really
strangest roundabout. Someone really had some hioh oscle when they
designed that day on Wen did, didn't they?
Speaker 6: It's weird that I do not know.
Speaker 2: And what you're doing after Christmas, what you're doing in
the new year and plans for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 7: Well, I'll be busy as always with my label. So
I've got I want to label the moreal death Ray music,
which is synth wave and drum and bass. But anyone
who's into those kinds of music, so I've already got
a few records in the can that are going to
be out early in the new year, one of which
has a fantas singer called Jasmine Night, so I'm looking
forward to releasing that. I'm also getting quite busy again
with production music finally, because you know, I do a
bit of work a film through sync licensing, and that
whole industry has been pretty quiet for a couple of
years because of the Hollywood strikes and the wokeness and
the lap and it's now starting to pick up.
Speaker 6: These last couple of weeks.
Speaker 7: I've had a pretty good job on with a couple
of tracks that I've made for a client, which I'd
love to tell you about, but they made me sign
an NDA tell you about it on the next year's Christmas.
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll go forward to that.
Speaker 8: Luck.
Speaker 2: As far as I'm concerned, I'm just going to have
a quiet Christmas where my daughter's coming to see at Christmas.
She's trying her way down from the Orkney Islands, which
is nice, so she'll be coming down the door, sit
and spending Christmas Day with us and everything, so that'd
be lovely. And I will be backing on with the
proofreading of my new book, I've over Got the True
Tales of the Paranor Out. I'm also working another book
called Unsolved Modern Mysteries, where I look at all these
various mysteries from the twentieth century and the twenty first century.
So I cover quite a few variations of different mysteries there,
from Bigfoot to Roswell to the MH three seventy flight
to Madeline McCann, the Oakville Blobs, all sorts of weird stuff.
So I'm actually going through the prereading of that now,
and that'd be handing back in January. So I'm assuming
that book will be out about probably late summer of
twenty twenty five, and then after that I'll crack on
with my other book projects and illustration projects and all
sorts of creative things that I'm doing. So, yeah, I
watch this space.
Speaker 6: Before you bring out the new book. We're going to
do like a review program, aren't we, of the book
you've just published.
Speaker 2: Yes, going to do that.
Speaker 6: Sometime in the new year. Will be doing that.
Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. Yeah, that's that's cool. Yeah, Yeah, that'd
be great. So yeah, I would like to take this
one to wish everybody who listens to the paranorl peep
Show on the paranorl UK Radio network, a wonderful Christmas
and a very happy New Year, and everybody else watching
on all other platforms.
Speaker 2: Again, we wish you a very happy New Year and
a peaceful Christmas with all your family and friends, and
thanks for tuning into us. Cheeriot by By had to,
but Ma