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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network and now

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it's time for the Paranormal Peep Show.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the Paranormal Peep Show on the Paranormal UK

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Radio Network, and this is Christmas District, a Christmas edition.

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My name is Neil Ward and we are joined by

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regular hosts Andy Chaplain.

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Speaker 2: Hi. Andy, Happy Christmas.

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Speaker 4: Happy Christmas to you too, Neil, But unfortunately not a

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happy Christmas to the majority of the UK thanks to

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crazy communist Keirs Darma. Who's rattled Let's see who he's

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rattled so far. So he's rattled pensioners, he's rattled students,

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he's rattled farmers. Now that's the latest one. Who else

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is he going to rattle with his communist lightsaber?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Probably the communists?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he's rattled quite a few cages. And he's

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only been in the job five months, so yeah, yeah.

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I think next year he'll be into phase two of

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his complete annihilation of the UK, which would be interested.

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Speaker 4: He tried a relaunch recently, didn't he a quotation relaunch?

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Because it's going so badly for him, he will reset it.

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I could think of another word beginning with that. He

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should do, which is maybe resign.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought he's going to be talking some other

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part of the body anatomy, but who will go there?

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Speaker 2: Ben, How are you happy Christmas?

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Speaker 6: Happy Christmas? Deal, Happy Christmas?

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Speaker 4: And they and Gary?

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Speaker 6: I'm very well, thank you. Yeah, I'm good to be

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back in the Christmas season. It's kind of been a while,

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isn't it since the last one?

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's been twelve months.

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Speaker 6: It feels like it feels like less than that. It

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really does. I mean time, notional time is still accelerating.

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In my view, it didn't slow down after twenty twelve.

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If anything, the quickening has continued. And I see no

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sorry liver debating.

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Speaker 2: So I think I did have We should have Christmas

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twenty five in about six months then?

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Speaker 6: Really yeah, I mean literally it feels that way. I

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don't know if that's ever going to change or not.

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Speaker 4: But we're in a parallel universe right now since twenty twelve.

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Speaker 6: Then, well, according to the it they call the many

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World hypotheses, apparently we're continuously moving from one universe to another,

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and it's every single moment the new universes are branching

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off the main one. So yeah, it's some that's what

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the Mandela effected.

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Speaker 4: I think you know, yeah, I've heard about this.

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Speaker 6: We are we are definitely not experiencing the reverse quickening

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that was predicted. So that's a shame. Means we've got

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it's notional time. When nocial time speeds up, it means

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everything else speeds up, including everything we do and say

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and our life expected seeing things like that. But that's

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the world we're live in.

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Speaker 2: There's one man that moves between many different worlds, and

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that's Mexico, Hemil Hempstead and more recently he's been to

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Italy to Pizza Up, which is our guest returning Gary Robinson.

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Speaker 4: Are you doing the all good to see him?

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Speaker 6: Mate?

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Speaker 7: And it does seem like just weeks since we were

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doing the large Christmas Show, And I don't know how

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that works, but yeah, time speed up, yeah.

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Speaker 6: But it does.

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Speaker 3: So you've just come back from pizza was it where

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they leaning tower of pizza.

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Speaker 7: The leading tower, which is surprisingly sturdy actually when you

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actually see it, it's pretty pretty thick and heavy granite.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and so the guy that made it was it

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was he drunk? Do you think when he made that

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maybe he had a trick up his sleeve. I don't know,

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how do they keep that tower at that angle for

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all that time and it hasn't fallen down. I don't

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though see it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they're propping it up the artificially. They're also doing

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something with the foundation underneath it to kind of support

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it as well. So the reason the reason why it

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leans like that is they built it straight and then

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for some reason there was subsidence underneath, and then it

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gradually started leaning over and continue to start leaning over.

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But they are trying to kind of fix it and

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stop that's been there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, now with with that, can you actually go up

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in the tower or is it not accessible?

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Speaker 7: Well, you could go up there. When I was there,

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I didn't fancy going up there, but I did notice

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that there's a recent drama on Apple TV. I can't

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remember what it was called. We had Kate Blanchet in it,

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and there's a scene where a character is at the

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top of the tower dangling his feet over the edge

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and writing in a notebook. And that was that seemed

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to be an actual shot from the top. I did

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see people, but I felt, NAEs, that's not for me.

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Speaker 3: You know, we're all good and dandy, So I thought

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i'd get our show on the road because with tradition

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there's always mince pies around the Christmas time. So these

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handy mince pies brought to you by who made them?

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I think it was Morrison's, so we are not sponsored

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by Morrison's. But these are lovely Morrison's mince pies. So

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I'm going to hand them through our celestial time magnetor

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which is basically skype in most people's words. So if

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I try and get this open and I'll hand each

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of you a mince pie, feel free to take one. Gentlemen,

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we go.

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Speaker 6: It's not for me.

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Speaker 2: Thanks, Oh Ben, you're not having one? Why is Believe

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it or not?

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Speaker 6: And I love them. I'm actually I'm on a detox,

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which is uh, it's it's something that's confused with a diet.

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But I think I've shocked Andy so much now he

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can't even swallow his pie. Yeah, it's it's a bit.

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Speaker 2: It's not a dying. It's it's just it's an affirmation.

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Speaker 6: It's it's something a cult I'm doing at the moment,

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which is just to control what I eat, just for

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the not for the person's losing weight. Although I have

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actually lost a lot of weight. That's a side effect.

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Not that not the reason I'm doing it. I just

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want I just want to put out energy into the

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universe so that good things happen, basically.

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Speaker 2: And how did you hear of this dietary occult thing?

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Speaker 6: Reading a book? It's reading a book called The Occult

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and it's by Colin Wilson, who was who was a

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hospital porter. As well as being very very famous in

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the sort of woo woo world. He was a hospital porter,

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so he knows what he's talking about. Believe me, he's

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a I always always accept.

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Speaker 2: The word of a brother time.

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Speaker 4: Do you know what the word a cult actually means?

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And then hidden? Yeah, hidden some most people did get

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the kind of devil worship and and you know, demons

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and that kind of thing. No, just mean hidden something.

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Speaker 6: It's interesting because people people think when the people think

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of a cult, they think of astera Crowley with a

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crystal boss if heroin and having sex with a goat

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on an altar. And but no, you don't. That's you

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don't have to do that to do anything or cult.

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That's he was very advanced, he's and he was very

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very powerful. But every you know, every time if you

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blow out your birthday candles and someone says, make a

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wish and you do it, You've done something a cult

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and people do these sorts of things all the time.

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It's the basis of the most superstitions. And you believe

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it or not, there is some reason to think that

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it has It can have an effect. It can have

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effect on your life and on a life under world

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around you. Instan If you blow your candles and what happens,

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you could be what you wish for for comes true.

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Now you may be just lucky, or it may be

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a direct mental intention of connected with your birthday. The

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cause did to happen? How do you know which is which?

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Speaker 4: M And if anyone of a Christian disposition, which is fine,

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who might want to criticize people who take part in

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quote occult rituals, will have a look at drinking the

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blood of Christ and eating the body of Christ on

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an altar with a chalice and bread. I mean, if

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that's not a cult, then.

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Speaker 6: I'm going to take I'm gonna take. I don't I

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don't push it too hard like a mouse. If I

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go on holiday, I'll take some time off as I

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am doing it this weekend when I go to the

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Basis Project conference. I'm also taking a week off for Christmas,

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but I'm mending it all on the twentieth of January.

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And when Trump gets inaugurated, it seems like kind of fitting.

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It's a fitting moment of fitting Bill, A cool moment

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will cellate your That is kind of the whole point

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of it is kind of connected.

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Speaker 4: To that, Ben, do you will you fill up your

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chalice full of lill tears on that particular day?

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Speaker 6: Oh, because I can deliberal bloody anymore.

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Speaker 2: I don't have to drink anymore, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, good guy your hair blue in protest and get emerge.

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Speaker 6: And George Monbiou is my favorite. I mean his lament

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it's just hilarious. I mean, I don't I don't take

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pleasure in other people suffering, except this time.

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Speaker 2: Was that saying he deserves it because he bloody deserves it.

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Speaker 7: Go ahead, Gary, and you guys see him be yeap,

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we can. I'm getting a few dropouts. I was just saying, Ben,

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I missed the start of what you were saying. But

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did you mean that you were doing the the detox

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so that the physical clean out affects the sort of

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non physical side of things for the better.

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm hoping for. Yeah, that's why I'm doing that.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that kind of connects with the little story that

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I've got to.

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Speaker 6: Tell later on.

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Speaker 2: So all right, and look forward to hearing that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So with the I'm just wondering, is there any symbolism

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and in et in im minced pies as we've done,

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what does that mean? You know, like you talk about

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blowing out of canvas on birthdays?

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Speaker 6: Is there Christmas is full of these things. I mean, like,

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for example, it's it's simply it's it's I think it's

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just simply people's feelings about Christmas, about coming back to

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the family and having family times together and things like that.

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And also what follows Christmas immediately is the New Year,

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which is of course a much bigger think in Scotland

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than it is in England. But we still do things

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that make New Year's resolutions, and that's that's another act

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of occultism. It's obviously there's nothing necessarily supernatural about that.

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It's not a superstition. It's simply promising yourself you'll do

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something in the coming year, and New Year's resolutions tend

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to be not it's not hoping for something ephemeral and

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uncontrolled out there to go your way. It's saying I'm

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going to do this. It's a it's a commitment to

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taking action. It's a statement of commitment to taking action.

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But the fact you do it when a new year

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starts is significant on an occult level.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's a few other things we could add

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as well. I mean, there's no mentioned in the Bible

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at all of when Jesus was actually born. In fact,

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the I think it's the Quran that says that it

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might be in around about July time. I've also heard

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possibly September time, but I'm certainly what is in December?

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You'll tie, which is oypagan tradition. So the Christians came

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along and basically said, well, have you'r tied? That's going

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to be ours now. That's when.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's the same with Easter as well, wasn't it, Well,

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the just conection. I'm from the Australia. Yeah, that's it

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was the Easter hairs something, wasn't it.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, the reason of twenty fifth there's sorry, Andy, but

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there's a there's a me saying yeah, okay, there's a

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reason why Jesus was born on the twentieth December, which

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is the same reason why I think Horace and all

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these other saviety sun gods were born on the twenty

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fifth of December. It's three days after the winter solstice,

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and according in these ain't much older myths than than Christianity.

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This was when the sun was said to be reborn

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after being in the earth for three days, because Jesus

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was in the belly of the earth for three days,

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wasn't he.

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Speaker 4: At this point, I would very much get people to

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have a look at the documentary Zeitgeist. You've probably seen that,

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Ben and but this goes into all of the ancient

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mythical characters and their similarities with Jesus. For the record,

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I want to say that I'm not anti Jesus. I

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am anti religion, man made religion generally speaking, and I

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am a spiritual person trying to follow a spiritual path.

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But yeah, I would say that the Christian faith and

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possibly quite a few other faiths either share similar attributes

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or are basically knock off copies of ancient religions in

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my personal opinion, and he was things like a Christmas

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tree as well, and even the tintal that goes around

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the Christmas tree. So the Christmas tree was celebrated in

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the Scandinavia, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, that kind of thing,

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and the tinta was originally the entrails of sacrificed animals

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by the Pagans who they used to wrap around the

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Christmas trees. You've also got the star you mentioned, like

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Easter East Star. You know, this goes back to kind

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of like Ish Star over this kind of thing. I'd

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really get people to look into, not only Zeitgeist, but

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also like David Ike, Jordan Maxwell is a big one

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in terms of going into this kind of thing. But

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there's there's so much hidden symbolism and most people have

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no clue about this.

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Speaker 6: They wander around.

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Speaker 4: Their shopping malls. They're just see Father Christmas hophohole and

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they have no idea what it's all about.

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Speaker 6: That's true. I like to echo that I don't have

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anything as people for what they believe in terms of

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their faith. I'm not I wouldn't call myself an atheist.

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I'll be inaccurate, but I myself don't follow those those

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religions myself.

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Speaker 4: If Jesus did exist, hands up, as you know, summed

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up to him and shake his hand. Thank you, great, fantastic. However,

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what I would say is that there are many prophets

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and you know, spiritual people who have come to us

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to try and help people, not just Jesus and not

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just you know, the other ones, whether it's you know,

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Mohammad or Moses or Krishna or whoever. They've all come

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with spiritual messages. And it's basically a case of there's

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good and there's bad in everything. There's good and bad

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in the Bible and in the Torah and the Kuran

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and the bug of a Gito, if I've pronounced that correctly,

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and it's basically I think the spiritual path, the true

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spiritual path, is looking at everything as a whole and

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almost like a pick and mix, picking out the good

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parts of the parts that resonate with you personally, and

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basically putting the trash in the bin. And when I

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say trash in the bin, I would say things like Deuteronomy,

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where it says that if you've got a disobedient, disobedient child,

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you take them to the gates of your town and

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you stone them to death. I don't think that should

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probably be in the Bible personally.

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Speaker 2: They do have problems with that.

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Speaker 4: One.

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Speaker 2: Don't explain those things away, don't they.

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Speaker 8: They?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I mean think the thing is I

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mean the Bible split into two, isn't it. You've got

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the New Old Testament. The New Testament is fine, Jesus

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lovely neighbor, everything's great, fantastic. The Old Testament is the

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fire and brimstone bit. And that's the bit where you're

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stoning your stone, your children to death if they're dissipee Again,

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what is that doing in a holy book?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's because it comes from the Middle East, and

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the Middle East is where these things were commonplace, stone

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in the head in people.

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Speaker 2: That's right. There's a lot of medieval kind of debauchery

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out in the Middle East.

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Speaker 6: Unfortunately this happens here. It's and Middle East is a

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very unstable part of the world. And it's still as

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we've seen you in the last few days. You know,

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this has been its insurrection in Syria, which is kid

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I don't nowhere, it's it and we see this repeated

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across the world at the moment. So I think we

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we're living in times of great hope at the moment,

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especially since November.

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Speaker 4: But if you were to make a prediction, Ben, how

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long do you think Starmer's got in? Because he is

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so dangerous for this country? How long do you think

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before you there, dear as soon.

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Speaker 6: As possibe, I mean when when as soon as he

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started on his horrible campaign. I remember things myself. He's

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only just been elected. We can't put up with another

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four or three quarter years of this. I don't know.

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I think I don't know, and I don't know how

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we can get rid of him, because of course he

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has just won an election. But I'm a great believer

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in things coming out of.

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Speaker 4: Left field, and he's because get afted by his own party.

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I mean, that's how the Conservative.

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Speaker 6: I think there's going to be the Labor Party is

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gonna split now. They're they're common enemies, the various factions

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in the Labor Party. Their common enemy has been defeated,

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that is the Tories. The Tories have been bashed down

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to almost nothing as a result, there's going to be

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there was, always, always has been fashions in the Labor Party.

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You remember the Gang of Four from the eighties and

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and the militant tendency and the SDP. This is still

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going on. Now we have the the left wing Corbynites,

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and then of course they have the Blair right, the

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centrist Blair Eyes. But then you also have like the

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labor Jewish movement and of course a vast Islamists the

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tendency and labor too, and they're gonna the Jews and

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the Muslims are going to come to blows over Israel.

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That's already happening. It's already happening now. I think these

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these gaps are going to deepen and widen to the

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point where the party may while sim point break apart.

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Speaker 4: Because I mean, Reform have now overtaken them in the

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polls that conservative. I think Kemmy is the right person

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for the job. And I do like Terrry so far

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what she said, I do like, but I think reform

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is the way forwards. Really got to get rid of

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the communists.

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Speaker 6: Kemmy baiyknock is if only for if only for entertainment value.

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It's just the look of Dan Abbott's face is just poetry.

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Speaker 2: And it's sort of been a ring together, wasn't it.

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Speaker 6: And David Lammy's horrible people who just say whenever they

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just keep accusing other people of racism all the time,

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you must be a white supremacist or hang on a

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moment's and they have a yeah. I mean the problem

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with Kemmy Baidknock has two problems. Firstly, she's weakened a

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lot since she since she first came on the scene

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started running for leadership. Secondly, her her ascendancy is about

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three years too late. She should have come in straight

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and when you know, if if she'd gone in there

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and when Boris cuts and started, Boris Johnson became you know,

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betrayed and stabbed and stabbed us all in the back,

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that would be with these things could have been better then,

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but they went to be. And she's a contradictory figure

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because she is she herself as a product of mid

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twentieth century immigration policy. Yet you know, there's no law

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saying that black women have to all be like Dyana,

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but they have agencies. She herself has chosen a different

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side out of conviction, and she can't choose who she

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is or what she is, but she can choose who

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she is and she can choose what side she takes.

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And true, I think it's hoped with Kemmy bag Actually

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I hope so time will.

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Speaker 3: Tell, so just a quick one before we go to

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our first segment of the program. We had a visit

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from the Jehovah's Witnesses, getting back to the religious side

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of thing about the food days ago. They you know,

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of course, that you don't know they're going to knock

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at the door, but they knocked at the door, and

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as two old ladies, and we're trying to keep the

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door shut eight to keep the cold out because the

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house up and it's freezing cold now, and the dog's

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trying to get out as well, and my wife was

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trying to keep the door from me from seeing them

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because she knows as soon as I see them, I

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went to open the door and start debating them for about

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a good hour, and so I was obviously prevented from

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doing so to keep the heating basically. But I wonder

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if they actually deliberately go around in the winter months

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so that you'll invite the men to stop the cold

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and then that way they've gone. You it's their kind

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of policy or something in it. But yeah, I do

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wonder about these Jehovah's Witnesses, whether I'm on a losing

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calls or not, because they're always try and say or

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point to any incident that's happening that's in the times,

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and oh, this is it, this is the end Time's

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come in. I mean, like thirty five years ago, I

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had a knock on the door from Jobah's witnesses. Fortunately

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it was in the summertime, so I chatted to them more.

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And it's the time the Berlin Wall was coming down,

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and the guy was pointing at the TV saying, this

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is the start of the end times. It's all going

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to happen this summer. And of course nothing happened. The

401
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bone wall came down. That was a collapse of communism,

402
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but really the world went on really.

403
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Speaker 4: So they don't celebrate Christmas as well?

404
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Speaker 3: No, no, that's right, Yeah, they don't celebrate Christmas. They

405
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don't celebrate birthdays, as we mentioned earlier. And if someone sneezes,

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they don't say bless you.

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Speaker 4: That's interesting. Why is that?

408
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Speaker 2: I'm not sure.

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Speaker 3: I don't know the reasoning behind that, but I think

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it's something to do with the only person that could

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bless you is actually God, the Father Tongue's idea, So

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no one else can say bless you or and you

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can't be blessed by a religious priest. I suppose in

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that sort of context.

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Speaker 4: They believe that only one hundred and forty four thousand

416
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souls are going to make it to.

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Speaker 2: Heaven something like that. Yeah, but there's actually a lot more,

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isn't there.

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Speaker 6: Gary is trying to speak. We can't hear him.

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Speaker 2: So is my mic? Were you in here?

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Speaker 8: Here?

422
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Speaker 2: Now? I'm seeing some glitching on the screen, My mic

423
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like going on or off.

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Speaker 7: I yeah, so maybe I try reconnecting with the bluetooth

425
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and you.

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Speaker 2: Can No, It's okay, we can hear now.

427
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Speaker 8: No.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, it just occurred to me that I went to

429
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school with Jehovah's Witness guy. He used to tell me

430
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that they unofficially had Christmas, but if someone would stick,

431
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they had rules in regards to treatments, so they would

432
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let people suffer because it was a year there philosophy.

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And I always thought that was pretty barbaric.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, they don't do blood transfusions and that

435
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kind of stuff.

436
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Speaker 6: It, Yeah, it's weird about what's weird about them is

437
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And I mean I used to know what I got

438
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someone I saw a friend who was in the Jehovah's

439
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Witness family, is that I went to visit the national

440
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headquarters and they have they have branches all over the world,

441
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and I was surprised about how up market it was.

442
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It was set in a very larger state in I

443
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think it was my end in London, and there's like

444
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a huge building which is like a book publishers and printers,

445
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and across the road there's like a big another big center,

446
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and they have these Kingdom halls everywhere, which like churches,

447
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and they tend to be very nice. They're they're very

448
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the elaborate buildings with nice grounds and things like that.

449
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And I went and I did wonder because I went

450
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in there and spoke to a couple of people and

451
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they ended up giving me two books. One of them

452
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was like a hard bat letter about Bible or what

453
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they I don't know what they call it. It's like

454
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the Bible, it's pretty similar. And I just wonder, where's

455
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all the money coming from people joining.

456
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Speaker 2: Basically, this is where they have to go door to door.

457
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Speaker 3: They's essentially salespeople to the Jehovah.

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Speaker 2: Witness Kingdom thing, and it's all sort of based on

459
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a headquarter somewhere in New York. I think they call them.

460
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The elder people are running it, but it's a big

461
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publishing empire. And I don't know.

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Speaker 6: If any of you ever say in the Book of Mormon,

463
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it's it's like a musical. It's it's showing in love.

464
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It's the Mormon likely the Church of to Day saying

465
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it's similar to the host Witnesses. It sort of emerged

466
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around the same time. It has similar beliefs. But it's

467
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,319
just really it's a hilarious. It's like a comedy musical.

468
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It's very funny about the Mormons.

469
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, I have Mormons knock on my door once.

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Speaker 4: I think I'm right. Now, I don't know if I'm

471
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humbercent right. I think I'm right in saying that the

472
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,039
where they're getting their money from is they try and

473
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,039
convince people to either hand over all their money or

474
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,160
leave everything in their will to the church. I could

475
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,759
be wrong in that, and if I'm wrong, then then fine.

476
00:23:27,759 --> 00:23:31,039
But I think but there is definitely one religional belief

477
00:23:31,079 --> 00:23:33,440
system where it's basically give all your money away and

478
00:23:33,519 --> 00:23:35,559
leave it all in your will and just you screw

479
00:23:35,599 --> 00:23:36,440
your kids kind of thing.

480
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 2: That's trobably what it is.

481
00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I mean it's because it is a very

482
00:23:40,759 --> 00:23:45,160
very upmarket organization was very well funded, quite clearly, and.

483
00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 7: Well they knew as well to be in the church

484
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,440
from what my friend used to tell me, believing money

485
00:23:52,599 --> 00:23:55,240
in the will, they have to pay like a monthly

486
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,240
do or whatever that's it, oh like tithing or something.

487
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, church, is it really?

488
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,519
Speaker 7: You going the Catholic Church and they they come around

489
00:24:03,559 --> 00:24:05,440
with it being asking for cats, you know.

490
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,559
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean usually people just put a couple

491
00:24:08,559 --> 00:24:10,240
of quid in the bag, but I think in the

492
00:24:10,279 --> 00:24:12,440
Jehovah's Witnesses they probably put a lot more. I mean

493
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:17,079
the book was so the book they gave me the Bible,

494
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,319
it was it is just the tree like a Bible.

495
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,079
It has some artwork in it which is clearly based

496
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:22,960
on the Jehosah.

497
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,839
Speaker 3: Oh, this is all the paintings they do with people

498
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,440
laying down with lions and lenbs.

499
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:26,799
Speaker 5: Yeah.

500
00:24:27,039 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 6: But apart from that, I mean, it has the word

501
00:24:28,759 --> 00:24:32,599
Jehovah instead of God, because Jovih is as as Monty

502
00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:35,640
Python hilariously point out, you know, Jehovah is the word

503
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:36,200
for God, but.

504
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,279
Speaker 2: It's blasphemy to say it. It is, He's the God

505
00:24:40,279 --> 00:24:41,440
of israelis called Jehovah.

506
00:24:41,519 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 6: Yeah. But they actually used that word in the in

507
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,000
this particular book, which is just apart from that, it

508
00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:50,680
looks just like a normal Bible to me, I've read

509
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:52,720
the normal Bible and it just looked like the same thing.

510
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 3: It's it's interesting change. And this is why I always

511
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,160
like a little debate with them, because generally, nine times

512
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,279
out of ten, debate with them and ask them really

513
00:25:01,279 --> 00:25:03,960
difficult questions and they don't.

514
00:25:03,759 --> 00:25:04,640
Speaker 2: Know what to think.

515
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 3: They can't answer them, and so they say, oh, we'll

516
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,039
come back with an answer, but they never do because

517
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:14,319
no one knows back at their base about what answers

518
00:25:14,319 --> 00:25:17,880
they can give, so they just kind of avoid me. Anyway,

519
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,519
I think it's about time we went to our first interviews.

520
00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:23,799
So a few weeks ago.

521
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 2: I sat down over Skype and chatted with the Kinseller twins.

522
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,519
That's Philip and Ronnie Kinseller of bedford Shire. Philip is

523
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,720
a medium, but he's also a research and author into UFOs,

524
00:25:35,799 --> 00:25:38,680
as is his brother Ronnie. So I spent a.

525
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:41,319
Speaker 3: Good forty or fifty minutes chatting with them about what

526
00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:43,400
they've been up to this year and what are their

527
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,279
plans the next. So take a look at this. Well,

528
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:49,559
here we are with Ronnie and Philip kinsella from Bedfordshire.

529
00:25:49,759 --> 00:25:53,480
They are the well, you could call them the Kinseller

530
00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:57,160
Twins or the psychic Twins or the UFO Twins because

531
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,920
they crop up in many fields of psychic and UFO

532
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,480
related activity, and also the rock Bottom Twins. They are

533
00:26:03,519 --> 00:26:06,440
the originally is of the rock Bottom Twins, who were

534
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,240
ventures of these treacherous of twins, always getting into trouble

535
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,519
by creating mayhem with robots that go awry.

536
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:17,920
Speaker 2: Yes, so you've been.

537
00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:21,799
Speaker 3: Busy this year, both of you with different various projects. Philip,

538
00:26:21,839 --> 00:26:23,920
you've been busy with a number of books, and you're

539
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,839
working on one called The Avatar, the Eternal Avatar.

540
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 2: Is that right, that's correct.

541
00:26:28,279 --> 00:26:33,079
Speaker 5: Yes, I've almost finished it with my co author Chris

542
00:26:33,279 --> 00:26:37,480
John Mays, and that will be completed I think the

543
00:26:37,519 --> 00:26:41,200
first week in December, and we've been sending these subsequent

544
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:46,000
chapters to the publisher in America and that should be

545
00:26:46,039 --> 00:26:51,519
released in June no July of twenty twenty five. So

546
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,119
there was a wrangling with another publisher. I kept this

547
00:26:54,279 --> 00:26:56,519
very quiet, but I didn't want anything to do with

548
00:26:56,519 --> 00:26:58,920
them because it was all a little bit a bit

549
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,279
wavery So I've gone with someone else and yeah, so

550
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,119
that's near completion. And I've done finished some filming this

551
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,160
year with some production companies on UFOs, most notably Rendersham

552
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,799
and I had to go to the studio at Studios

553
00:27:12,839 --> 00:27:15,960
to get that finished. So it's a few articles published

554
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,720
abroad in Italian and Spanish magazines. So it's been all right,

555
00:27:19,799 --> 00:27:24,240
it's been good, but also I think quite a stressful

556
00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:27,119
you in terms of the energies I think around the

557
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,279
world and with what's going on. But you know, but

558
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,960
I have plans for the projects with regards to the

559
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,359
next book after this one, so it's like a I've

560
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:37,680
got a list of them.

561
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 2: Wow.

562
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 3: Wow, it's good to have a list. It's good to

563
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,200
always add the next thing to you onto so you're

564
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,319
not sort of sitting there dragging your knuckles and thinking

565
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:49,279
what can I do next? So the Eternal Avatar, are

566
00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:50,960
we allowed to know a little bit about what it's

567
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,200
direction it's heading in.

568
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 5: Yeah. By the way, your book, oh yeah, published book

569
00:27:58,839 --> 00:28:03,599
is amazing, incredible, so amazing. I do have a copy

570
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,720
of the book somewhere because I've almost finished reading it.

571
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,119
True Tells of the Paranormal by Neil Ward and a

572
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,519
wonderful book articus, isn't it? I think of half a

573
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,240
purist pressuris that's how you pronounce?

574
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 6: So yeah.

575
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 5: The Eternal Avatar deals specifically in making the individual aware

576
00:28:25,759 --> 00:28:29,119
of their inherent greatness. That is to say, it looks

577
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,200
into the human soul and the spirit because a contrary

578
00:28:34,279 --> 00:28:36,599
to popular belief, there are differences to be had between

579
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,799
one and the other, and it deals with the incarnation

580
00:28:38,839 --> 00:28:42,119
and the incarnation process, as well as tackling the theories

581
00:28:42,119 --> 00:28:45,319
of why we're here, why we go through amnesia when

582
00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:49,079
we incarnate into this realm, and also dealing with the

583
00:28:49,119 --> 00:28:52,200
fact that we are avatars ourselves, that we are here

584
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,799
to build upon our eternal greatness, our magnificence. So the

585
00:28:55,799 --> 00:28:59,440
book is an overall picture of what we are, not

586
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,119
just as a biological automaton, which the system that we

587
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:07,160
serve has so reminded us, and also arguing with regards

588
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:11,200
to the chaos theory and the Sunday School version, because

589
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,880
the system that we serve loves anything in everything as

590
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,680
long as it it doesn't have any proof, so with faith,

591
00:29:17,759 --> 00:29:21,200
it's quite happy with that. So we battle the fact

592
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,079
that our genesis is very different to what we've been

593
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,200
told and sold, so to speak, and explores the the

594
00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:32,200
you know why we're here and the possible war that

595
00:29:32,319 --> 00:29:35,119
seems to be going on on a subliminal level, a

596
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,680
psychological level, utilized as a weapon that's been going on

597
00:29:39,799 --> 00:29:42,680
by another darker force that's been here for a very

598
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,440
long time, and might answer some truly extraordinary questions with

599
00:29:46,599 --> 00:29:50,440
regards to the subject matters that's in the book itself.

600
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,440
So yeah, that's that's an overall picture of it.

601
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 2: Is it a just difficult book to write because it

602
00:29:55,559 --> 00:29:56,440
is with a co writer?

603
00:29:57,759 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 5: No, Actually, it was quite a dream, actually, to be

604
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,839
honest with you, because we had the chapter synopsis, we

605
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,640
had a constructor what to write about, and me and

606
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,559
Chris are on the same page with regards to the

607
00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:14,880
psychic component, so it was it flowed really nicely. We

608
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,960
just generated ideas, brought them together, and then we constructed

609
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,519
the chapters another passed them to him and he'd pass

610
00:30:20,559 --> 00:30:22,680
them back to me and we'd flow it through that way.

611
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,680
So it was very it was It's very it's hard

612
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,519
to write in terms of getting the research done and

613
00:30:28,519 --> 00:30:30,480
all the rest, but it was easy to write with

614
00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:33,119
a co author because sometimes with a co author it

615
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,839
can be very difficult. And we do have another author

616
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,039
who was writing the forward to the book, and we

617
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,759
have an artist already from Canada who's going to construct

618
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,160
the cover of the book as gold too, So yeah, wow.

619
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 2: And what's Chris's background in all this? Is it UFOs

620
00:30:51,319 --> 00:30:52,119
or spiritualism?

621
00:30:53,319 --> 00:30:55,559
Speaker 5: In all of those subject methods, He's been very much

622
00:30:55,599 --> 00:30:59,279
involved with the paranormal and with the UFO, very open minded,

623
00:30:59,359 --> 00:31:03,039
very psychic, and you know, and there's a story behind

624
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,000
how we met up because there are synchronicities linked there

625
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,480
and how we connected and then we decided, well, let's

626
00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:12,359
write a book. And of course there were subject matters

627
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,599
that we're all interested in. But it's interesting to see

628
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:21,720
people's takes on it because Chris actually recalls his incarnation process.

629
00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:25,359
He actually remembers that, whereas most people don't they remember

630
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:28,480
past life or fragments of past lives, so he remembers

631
00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:31,240
actually coming from the state of where he was and

632
00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:34,559
then traversing through space, which was quite a terrifying experience

633
00:31:35,319 --> 00:31:37,640
from this memory that he had as a child and

634
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,759
then growing up as an adult. So it is quite

635
00:31:39,759 --> 00:31:44,640
interesting and also tackling not just the incarnation process, it

636
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,839
also looks into historical factors like Foth who never came

637
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,640
through the normal reproductive processing. He appeared from light off

638
00:31:51,759 --> 00:31:56,640
towards the Egyptian deity and describe and has a colorful

639
00:31:56,759 --> 00:32:00,160
history in terms of this ancient knowledge. So it's it's

640
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,079
kind of like looking at as some of the past,

641
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,759
some of the present, and looking into other areas of

642
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,720
reasoning behind incarnation and reincarnation. And this may answer us

643
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,240
some truly extraordinary questions about current states and affairs with

644
00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:16,000
regards to what we call the UFOs and the paranormal.

645
00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:18,559
And because they argued the case that they've been segmented

646
00:32:18,599 --> 00:32:22,039
into separate categories when there could be key connections which

647
00:32:22,799 --> 00:32:26,559
linked them to inter dimensional within their reality. So it's

648
00:32:26,599 --> 00:32:30,119
a book that carries certain theories and for the reader

649
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,839
to decide for themselves. We're not telling them what it is.

650
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,559
It's up to the readers to decide.

651
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,519
Speaker 2: Wow, and when is that Jewel July June July?

652
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,599
Speaker 5: I think it's July. They want to bring it out

653
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,599
because they want to do it as audio as well

654
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,720
as paperback, kindle and hardback. So we're almost there completing

655
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,039
the project. And then of course from that point onwards

656
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,440
it is going to editorial as even as we speak,

657
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,880
as we finish these chapter that are being submitted and

658
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:57,359
worked on, so we're kind of.

659
00:32:57,359 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: Like working together as a group to get it done.

660
00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:03,519
So yeah, you know, the proof reading and corrections all

661
00:33:03,559 --> 00:33:08,279
this kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, I've got that to

662
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,599
go on. The second book that I'm doing, which is

663
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,640
Unsolved Modern Mysteries for the same publishers, that'd be coming

664
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,720
out probably about the same time as your Avatar book

665
00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:20,359
actually about the summer of next year. So that has

666
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,319
already been resubmitted now as a kind of completed chapters,

667
00:33:25,359 --> 00:33:30,200
but I will probably maybe December or January be working

668
00:33:30,279 --> 00:33:33,079
on the proofreading side of things with the proof editor

669
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,720
and changes and things.

670
00:33:35,079 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 5: But I have to thank you also because you contributed

671
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,680
a wonderful piece in the book which is in there,

672
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,119
and that is to do with you know, afterlife and

673
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,279
thoughts on that, and that is wonderful. So I will

674
00:33:47,359 --> 00:33:50,400
just tell your viewers that Neil here not only the

675
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,839
author of the wonderful books that's just come out and

676
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,440
the future ones, but also made another contribution. And of

677
00:33:57,480 --> 00:33:59,519
course you were in Guardians and the Dead as well too.

678
00:33:59,559 --> 00:34:01,640
You help with that, remember you went to all of

679
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,720
that and that was superpose. So we go back in

680
00:34:05,799 --> 00:34:08,400
time with our connections on a literary level as well

681
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:12,960
as not just being great mates, helping out with the

682
00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:16,079
art and also with the literature. So you know as

683
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:17,760
well as we do that it can be a very

684
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,840
time consuming process. And when people say, oh, it's easy

685
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,440
to write a book, no it not.

686
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 3: No, no, it's I mean the book that I wrote. Actually,

687
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,599
you know, if you think about it, it's a lifetime

688
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:33,239
of processes because it's all these experiences you've taken from

689
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,280
childhood right up to your adult days that you sometimes

690
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,880
all put in books. And you know, you remember certain

691
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,079
things that happened in your teens or as a youngster

692
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:43,800
that you might put in the book, a certain psychic

693
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,519
experience or something like that. It all goes into the

694
00:34:47,559 --> 00:34:49,559
factory that churns it out at the end, doesn't it.

695
00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 5: And your book is a very big book, and it's

696
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,760
a beautiful book. I mean it's beautiful the way the

697
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:54,679
publishers have done it.

698
00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:55,079
Speaker 6: I love it.

699
00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:57,119
Speaker 2: I love the look at it, look of it and

700
00:34:57,159 --> 00:34:57,679
the way it is.

701
00:34:57,719 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 5: It's beautiful.

702
00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, I just I just hope that people

703
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,039
don't get nightmares reading it. It wasn't written as a horror

704
00:35:04,039 --> 00:35:08,440
book or anything, although I do have a I think

705
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,920
that who's it Forbidden Planet Bookshop, they've listed it as

706
00:35:12,039 --> 00:35:15,639
horror because they haven't got a category for paranormal, which

707
00:35:15,679 --> 00:35:17,320
is a bit of a strange one, but there we go.

708
00:35:18,079 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 5: At least they're stock in it, which is nice. Oh

709
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,880
yeah that, I mean, you can get it Amazon now.

710
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,760
I think you know it started. It's like any book

711
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,519
ours when we were you know, had publishers before in

712
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:30,239
the past, with the contract or publishers. I mean, it

713
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:32,440
was a nightmare getting hold of it, and then of

714
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,639
course any it's any author's worse nightmare where people say, oh,

715
00:35:35,679 --> 00:35:37,840
we can't get hold of it, and they're like breathing

716
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,519
down your netwill wears the book and then all of

717
00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:41,719
for some when it comes out, you know it's there,

718
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,719
and then people forget that. So it is an honor

719
00:35:45,079 --> 00:35:47,800
and I think for us as well as for you

720
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,840
because you were published before by one of the big

721
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,119
hay House, big publishing companies. But your book is are

722
00:35:54,199 --> 00:35:57,199
beautiful and of course the publishers do some really wonderful

723
00:35:57,199 --> 00:35:59,199
books in the line of what they're bringing out and

724
00:36:00,119 --> 00:36:02,079
can't wait to read the next one as well too.

725
00:36:03,079 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 3: So you know, it's funny when I actually got the

726
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,639
book in my hands, I look at it and I

727
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:07,679
don't read it.

728
00:36:08,199 --> 00:36:11,079
Speaker 2: Do you know why I might find a mistake and go,

729
00:36:11,199 --> 00:36:17,440
oh my god, pet? But anyway, thank you.

730
00:36:17,519 --> 00:36:20,559
Speaker 3: So Ronnie, what have you been up to this last year?

731
00:36:20,599 --> 00:36:23,320
I know we've been chatting over email and you've been

732
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,760
getting a new three D printer and creating wonderful artworks

733
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,239
within your z brush And you've been working that for

734
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,599
like twelve years eleven years or something like that, now,

735
00:36:32,639 --> 00:36:33,440
isn't it?

736
00:36:33,519 --> 00:36:35,119
Speaker 2: So you would really practice that, aren't you.

737
00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 5: Yes, I've branched in rather than out, because I tendify

738
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,920
that the UFOs and all that out and science fiction

739
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,719
is in. So I've branched in. But when i'm I've

740
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,239
got some apart from the z brush I'm which I'm

741
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:56,239
using now. I've just finished a science fiction novella which

742
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,280
took me three years to work on, mainly because I

743
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,920
was stuck on the ending and it came about just

744
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,840
blindly and I realized that that was it the queue

745
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,039
I needed. The book is probably about one hundred and

746
00:37:13,079 --> 00:37:15,639
twenty pages long. It's not really big, but enough for

747
00:37:15,679 --> 00:37:19,039
a train trip or an aircraft trip. You know, someone's

748
00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:22,880
sitting on there. But I'm planning before I find anyone

749
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,000
for it. But someone has made a proposal to publish it.

750
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,480
Not one of the big giants, not one of the

751
00:37:29,519 --> 00:37:32,760
major publishers. I've heard nothing from them, although we had

752
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,559
an agent in London many years ago, but sadly they retired.

753
00:37:36,639 --> 00:37:39,880
Mary Martinez, we had an agency in London, but they've

754
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,440
retired and they couldn't take it on. So I've been

755
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,239
looking for an agent and I've tried seven and no luck.

756
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,760
But it's okay, and we were used to it. You know,

757
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,039
it's very cutbloat, it's not personal. But the book is

758
00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:56,079
based on the dystopian future. I know it's common, I

759
00:37:56,119 --> 00:37:58,480
know it's been done to death, but this has a twist.

760
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,760
I'm not going to give that to the way. I

761
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,760
didn't even tell the agents that to it because there

762
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,519
doren't on anyone nicking it, but I speaking of them,

763
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,320
no one's nicking it. But I'm illustrating this, so I

764
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,440
thought smattering of pictures within this book, because you're like, yes,

765
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,400
of your brilliant art is your money. I can't do

766
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,920
people very well that I can get away with it

767
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,280
with things that like the side angle of people or

768
00:38:21,639 --> 00:38:23,880
you know, it is going to be illustrated, So I'm

769
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,039
going to do them kind of graphic key, but using

770
00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:32,119
z brush. One man accused me of using AI with

771
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,719
my art, and I thought, well, yeah, no mate. It

772
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,559
took me, quietly stated, twelve years to master this, and

773
00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:42,800
even that is still to me not good enough, because

774
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,159
you've just find yourself pushing and pushing, you know, You've

775
00:38:46,199 --> 00:38:48,599
always learned new things, and it is like when you

776
00:38:48,639 --> 00:38:51,840
do a painting. I appreciate it because it's you know,

777
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,719
you do it, and then you think, ooh is that

778
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,239
good enough? You know, like you said about your book,

779
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,079
we were the same. I frightened to open it to

780
00:38:58,119 --> 00:39:01,199
look at it because of but that's just part of

781
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,960
being artistic. It's just that's what it is. So that's

782
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,719
what I've been doing. I've been working on this science

783
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:11,280
fiction novella and I am actually planning after that to

784
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,880
do a comic book, an actual comic book. I've never

785
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,480
thought of this before. Of the Bottom Twins.

786
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:21,159
Speaker 2: Oh brilliant, brilliant. So we haven't heard the last of them.

787
00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:23,559
Then they will return now I.

788
00:39:23,559 --> 00:39:25,599
Speaker 5: Had this because they were done and they were first

789
00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:29,360
published in two thousand and six Google of Buck Kingsman

790
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,559
in The Gentleman. The grumpy old men who build this

791
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:36,960
robot as a work saving device to act as an

792
00:39:37,079 --> 00:39:40,440
unpaid skivvy and to when the people are away. They

793
00:39:40,519 --> 00:39:42,159
use it to clean up homes and get the money.

794
00:39:42,159 --> 00:39:44,760
But it does something terrible to one of the houses.

795
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,119
So I had this picture in my head. I saw

796
00:39:48,159 --> 00:39:52,239
it all last year of the men looking ahead in

797
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:56,679
this dingy hallway. They did it in a big ramshackled houses,

798
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,760
all run down and down the hallway with the torn

799
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,239
water paper and a dim light. It's like a Frankenstein monster,

800
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,079
the new creations standing in the distance. Look at them

801
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,199
ramshack the robot. You know, although it was published in

802
00:40:09,199 --> 00:40:12,039
two thousand and six, we still we have all the

803
00:40:12,159 --> 00:40:15,079
rights so we can develop it as a comic bookcase.

804
00:40:15,079 --> 00:40:17,760
I think kids, all of that toned down, of course,

805
00:40:18,159 --> 00:40:21,760
politically correct, of course, were up. Yeah, that was a

806
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,719
bit ambitious, I would say. So that's what I've been doing.

807
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:26,320
Speaker 2: And planning now.

808
00:40:26,679 --> 00:40:30,679
Speaker 3: Excellent, excellent, So for the rock Bottom Twins resurface, do

809
00:40:30,679 --> 00:40:32,239
you think next year is a book?

810
00:40:33,159 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 5: It won't be next year, I think, because these illustrations

811
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,760
for the science fiction novella. The short book will take

812
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:44,119
at least until summer. Then it may be published hopefully

813
00:40:44,119 --> 00:40:48,880
by winter. I can start the comic book by summer.

814
00:40:49,159 --> 00:40:52,239
But as you well know, when MONI know, art takes ages,

815
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:53,159
even with z brush.

816
00:40:53,199 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 2: But what I plan to do.

817
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,079
Speaker 5: What's clever about the z brush is the fact that

818
00:40:57,119 --> 00:41:01,880
I can build all the models first, have all arms postures,

819
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,960
build the robot, and then the house is Then we

820
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,440
can twist and change them. As you know, the models

821
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,760
for this three D application. They can be swapped and

822
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,800
changed and you can have them in It's like it's

823
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,760
just clever cgiwork. Where you move in your artwork these

824
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,519
models and you can change the angle and the lighting

825
00:41:19,559 --> 00:41:22,559
and things like that. And I plan for it to

826
00:41:22,559 --> 00:41:25,920
be perhaps about thirty two pages long. And the tryer

827
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,159
I'm going to try a major publisher with that, a

828
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:29,800
comic book publisher.

829
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:31,320
Speaker 4: They call them graphic novels.

830
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,639
Speaker 5: I don't mind that I don't like the comic books,

831
00:41:33,679 --> 00:41:35,480
you know, yeah, yeah.

832
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,599
Speaker 2: I tend to find that the graphic novels and I

833
00:41:37,639 --> 00:41:39,960
don't buy them, but when I flick through them, at

834
00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:43,719
stores like Forbidden Planet. They tend to do loads of

835
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,039
them there. They always tend to be.

836
00:41:46,119 --> 00:41:50,599
Speaker 3: Dark kind of stories, don't they dark and batman ish

837
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,239
or something. You know, very well done for what the

838
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,320
market is, extremely well done.

839
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 2: But yeah, I can see what you're saying, very very gothic.

840
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and of course you got the extension part.

841
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,519
Don't move it out from the z brush. You've got

842
00:42:06,559 --> 00:42:09,840
the other three b D printer which you ordered and

843
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,480
one went missing, didn't it? And the three D printer

844
00:42:11,519 --> 00:42:13,199
went missing, yes.

845
00:42:13,679 --> 00:42:16,119
Speaker 5: Where it was as the Joker from Batman would say,

846
00:42:16,119 --> 00:42:16,719
the original one.

847
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 2: It was perfect. It went missing foot.

848
00:42:20,559 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 5: In all fairness to them, they got me another one

849
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,239
straight away, and I have to commend their service. They

850
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,800
were wonderful, mil They were absolutely Although I was angry,

851
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:30,719
it wasn't their fault.

852
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 2: You can't blame them. It's the delivery process. You can't

853
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:34,760
blame the delivery men.

854
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,880
Speaker 5: It was just pilt that they wouldn't state that, but

855
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:38,800
we know what happened.

856
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:39,679
Speaker 6: But they were wonderful.

857
00:42:39,679 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 5: They got me you And yes, I mean I've got

858
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,840
plans to build the twins and their robot, but not

859
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:47,760
just yet. I want to get this comic book done

860
00:42:48,039 --> 00:42:50,159
and then to try and promote it or hype it.

861
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,400
These things can be built, but of course using z brush,

862
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,599
when you've developed the models of them, you can produce

863
00:42:56,639 --> 00:43:01,599
them as three dimensional resin kind of replicas, you know,

864
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:05,719
and judging. I mean, my printer's probably about just under

865
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,880
twelve inches tall, so in order to make a model

866
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:10,880
double that side, I everyone's the big one, I've had

867
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,079
to split the model. And to find out how to

868
00:43:14,119 --> 00:43:18,599
do that, I'm still not absolutely one hundred percent on

869
00:43:18,679 --> 00:43:22,039
how to do that. You know, So you learn, don't you?

870
00:43:22,039 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 8: You learn?

871
00:43:22,559 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 6: Yeah?

872
00:43:23,039 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's interesting because I came back from

873
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,920
Finland after doing a UFO conference, so I spoke there

874
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,079
and there was wonderful. They were absolutely amazing. They looked

875
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:36,159
after me like the Crown jewels. But I went with

876
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:41,199
another chat there bless him, and he took me to

877
00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:47,880
my favorite children's author, tool Johnson toe Jensen that we

878
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,360
call her here in England of the movements created the

879
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:54,280
movements and her family the artists, and so I went

880
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,719
to a museum and saw all the models that they

881
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,960
have created. They're in big glass cabinets. But I also

882
00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:04,599
so found the grave of two Judge, which I remembered.

883
00:44:04,639 --> 00:44:07,920
I was brought in contact with her work when I

884
00:44:08,039 --> 00:44:10,880
was all but around eight or nine years of age

885
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,480
and our teacher, Missus Sampson, God love her, read out

886
00:44:15,559 --> 00:44:21,719
the miming Midsummer Madness and and I remembered the book

887
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,199
after she'd read it to the class through weeks. You know,

888
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,119
you have a storytelling and he has jumble cell tape.

889
00:44:28,119 --> 00:44:29,880
But I used to love jumble cells. And it was

890
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,599
all but five PM and bought it for me, and

891
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:34,599
I loved that book. And then of course since then

892
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,840
eighty eight and since then I've collected everything of her

893
00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:42,440
literature and work and all the biographies and everything.

894
00:44:42,639 --> 00:44:45,119
Speaker 2: So it was it was very strange.

895
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 5: I did take a picture and I put it online

896
00:44:48,039 --> 00:44:49,800
of me standing by her tomb, and it was a

897
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,360
very moving moment because in you know, her life, you

898
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,760
saw in the museum of all the pictures of her

899
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,280
and even meeting the president of the Finland, I think

900
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,440
she was she was see what was equivalent to what

901
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,559
we would call a knighthood England for her work. But

902
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,119
you know, and then you just have the tomb and

903
00:45:10,599 --> 00:45:13,480
you know, with it was it was very strange feeling

904
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,320
and I was very overwhelmed.

905
00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 2: And where you went to or UFO conference, that's where

906
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:19,559
you went, was it?

907
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 5: Yeah? And I went there. I wasn't invited and I

908
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,079
couldn't afford to go, so I missed out on tour

909
00:45:24,119 --> 00:45:26,159
of ah Johnson. But there may be one day, you know.

910
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,559
But it's just strange that I was drawn to the

911
00:45:28,599 --> 00:45:30,599
country and I have to keep the organized as this.

912
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,599
They went out of their way because I asked them,

913
00:45:33,599 --> 00:45:35,679
and they went out of their way to make sure

914
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,639
that I went that. But just quickly where she's buried

915
00:45:39,679 --> 00:45:43,599
toe Johnsen. These cemeteries are huge, and the stones are huge.

916
00:45:43,679 --> 00:45:47,559
All of the different monuments that they've been created are

917
00:45:47,599 --> 00:45:50,519
absolutely spectacular. And we thought we could never find out

918
00:45:50,519 --> 00:45:54,280
because it was like walking through Manhattan. They had lights

919
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,639
and the streets and like the areas winning this graveyard.

920
00:45:57,679 --> 00:46:00,559
But we found it. We felt guided, we felt because

921
00:46:00,559 --> 00:46:03,079
no one knew where it was, but we discovered it

922
00:46:03,199 --> 00:46:04,440
through it was amazing.

923
00:46:04,599 --> 00:46:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was telling us, so I'm here, I'm here.

924
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,440
I'm here because I was going to ask you about Finland.

925
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,000
But that's great you brought it up.

926
00:46:13,039 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 3: So yeah, because I remember telling you when you went,

927
00:46:17,079 --> 00:46:19,000
I said, oh, I've been to Finland, and it turned

928
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,920
out that you were going to the same city that

929
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,800
I had been to in ninety three, Tampier, Tamparey, Temperari.

930
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 2: I'm not surying to pronounce this still. And I told

931
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,519
you about the huge tall tower which at a restaurant

932
00:46:31,559 --> 00:46:34,639
at the top, and so when you went there, it

933
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,119
kind of brought back all the memories of myself going

934
00:46:37,159 --> 00:46:39,400
and so so that had a knock on effect when

935
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,519
I was reading about your exploits were going to Finland,

936
00:46:41,559 --> 00:46:45,159
because then it reinspired me from my story.

937
00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:48,119
Speaker 3: They had children's story that I've started to write, which

938
00:46:48,599 --> 00:46:50,000
just to explain to people, I used to tell my

939
00:46:50,119 --> 00:46:52,440
kids when they were younger, used to make them up

940
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,880
bedtime stories, and one that was always they had always

941
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,920
asked for was a story of two mice that I've

942
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,079
made up. These characters called Cyril and his dad, who

943
00:47:01,079 --> 00:47:02,760
couldn't see a thing because they had these great big

944
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,639
bifocals on. And Cyril be driving the car and is

945
00:47:05,679 --> 00:47:07,800
dad to be point in the way rather like my dad,

946
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,559
but used to point the way when I used to

947
00:47:09,639 --> 00:47:12,440
driving back from the hospital after having his eyes injected.

948
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 2: On my ad so he couldn't see a thing himself,

949
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,199
you know. But my kids used to love it because

950
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:19,400
I used to have them driving around and driving down

951
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,760
the cat's mouth and things like that, getting lost. And

952
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,159
when I told them this time around, said look, I'm

953
00:47:25,199 --> 00:47:27,239
going to do this story now and I'm going to

954
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:31,320
illustrate it. My son is twenty four, my daughter's twenty nine.

955
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:34,800
Speaker 3: They both smiled, and I could tell from that smile

956
00:47:35,199 --> 00:47:37,599
that they thought it was a good idea because they

957
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:38,920
it wasn't old.

958
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,480
Speaker 2: Don't be a stupid dad. They had an affection for it.

959
00:47:41,559 --> 00:47:43,519
You could see it in their eyes, you know, which

960
00:47:43,599 --> 00:47:47,079
was lovely. So because of you going to Tempera and Google,

961
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:51,239
I decided to set this story where they go on

962
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,360
a benure and they do go to Finland, they do

963
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:55,800
go to Tamper and they.

964
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:59,199
Speaker 3: Do go up the tower. So that'll all be revealed

965
00:47:59,199 --> 00:48:02,320
in the story. So that's your kind of influence coming

966
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:03,239
in there, which is great.

967
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:03,639
Speaker 2: Thank you.

968
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,599
Speaker 5: When we write books you're saying about you know, there

969
00:48:07,639 --> 00:48:13,239
are kind of perble traits in the writing because, as

970
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:18,360
you just saying, the Cyril's dad is based on your father, horrifically,

971
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,000
the rop often twins are based on me and him

972
00:48:20,039 --> 00:48:22,840
when we're sixty. So there are traces there. And I

973
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,119
said to Philip when it was published, by goodness, have

974
00:48:25,159 --> 00:48:28,239
we written our autobiography? Because all doesn't go well at

975
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,239
the end. It's at the table's a turn basically. So

976
00:48:31,559 --> 00:48:34,719
it's interesting, isn't it. When you produce these books you

977
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,360
have elements of yourself in them. You can always find

978
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:41,239
elements of yourself within them their stories. Does A really

979
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:42,480
traced about my story?

980
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:43,199
Speaker 2: Yes?

981
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, your personal It is your personal experience that comes

982
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:49,440
into these things, and you hear personal things and thinking, ah,

983
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:52,000
I can use that in that story, you know. I

984
00:48:52,039 --> 00:48:53,440
think all the great writers have done it.

985
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 2: They've taken elements of life and injected it into the

986
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,960
humor of Only Fools and Horses. For instance, I think

987
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,320
it was I forget the guy who wrote it. Now

988
00:49:02,559 --> 00:49:05,079
he's passed on himself, but he used to listen to

989
00:49:05,119 --> 00:49:08,480
conversations and if you heard anything funny, say oh, I

990
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,840
can use that in my Only Fools and Horses. And

991
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:12,440
that's how these things built up.

992
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 6: You'd be.

993
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,519
Speaker 3: But yeah, so are you planning to do anything else?

994
00:49:17,559 --> 00:49:19,280
Going abroad for conferences next year?

995
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 6: Both?

996
00:49:19,519 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 2: Did you anything happening on that front? Well?

997
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,480
Speaker 5: We did go up north to meet up with Port

998
00:49:24,519 --> 00:49:28,079
Sinclair and we did some research and some interesting research

999
00:49:28,119 --> 00:49:32,239
at danes Dyke and we caught an image of some

1000
00:49:32,599 --> 00:49:35,599
qu there wasn't in the camera to begin with, a

1001
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:40,679
figure that we've paus been has put it online on

1002
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,039
his truth proof link and some people are saying it's

1003
00:49:44,079 --> 00:49:46,400
a man in the Parker jacket. It's not because it

1004
00:49:46,519 --> 00:49:49,679
was no one there. The figure is huge and from

1005
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,320
the distance because you know, and there's a light taber

1006
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,800
it's head and it's interesting, isn't it. How And this

1007
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,239
is the area of where the dogmen or what we

1008
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,800
would call the werewolf is being seen by witnesses within

1009
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:07,400
this area. It's a very ancient Neolithic place and very

1010
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:11,440
strange area. So they'd be an analyzing this picture. It

1011
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:14,360
could be a Sasquatch, it could be a dogma, and

1012
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,960
it could be any Eolithic person. We don't know, but

1013
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:22,039
whatever it is, it's huge and people, of course I'll

1014
00:50:22,039 --> 00:50:25,599
come forward and the armchair people who haven't been there,

1015
00:50:25,639 --> 00:50:28,960
who weren't there when you were primarily doing the research.

1016
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,000
And we've had something's eyes that byas you know that

1017
00:50:32,079 --> 00:50:34,039
it's it's it's got a pair of white gloves in

1018
00:50:34,079 --> 00:50:36,519
his pockets are not gloves or actually the foliage that's

1019
00:50:36,559 --> 00:50:40,480
in front of it. So it's quite interesting. So we're

1020
00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:43,480
hopefully going back up there next year to do some

1021
00:50:43,519 --> 00:50:48,239
more research and you know, quite interesting. But it's quite unnerving,

1022
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,760
you know, when you when you pick you capture something

1023
00:50:52,519 --> 00:50:54,960
on on camera that wasn't there. There was no one

1024
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,280
there to begin with and finding it, but it's about

1025
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,920
a foot tall, huge. And the other thing is that

1026
00:51:03,639 --> 00:51:07,519
with regard to the area of our being very spooky

1027
00:51:07,559 --> 00:51:12,079
and we weren't there, you know, specifically to catch anything strange,

1028
00:51:12,079 --> 00:51:14,880
we were just taking pictures of the area. And it's

1029
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:16,840
interesting when people say, well, it is something to do

1030
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,320
with the camera. Well, it's funny how the camera changes.

1031
00:51:19,679 --> 00:51:22,559
But all the other images that you took are perfect. Yes,

1032
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:27,039
in light of that, No, I've got nothing planned for

1033
00:51:27,159 --> 00:51:32,559
next year. There's no conferences, I think with me, I've moved,

1034
00:51:32,599 --> 00:51:38,199
as I said, move inward, branched inward into more science fiction.

1035
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,559
But I will continue, of course with the power normal.

1036
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:45,840
I just feel personally myself, but the route had taken,

1037
00:51:46,119 --> 00:51:49,440
I can't reach any further at the moment. And this happened,

1038
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,239
which was interesting. Because I had a book published by

1039
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:56,119
cap or Ban in twenty ten called Twin Souls, which

1040
00:51:56,159 --> 00:51:59,159
was based on the paranormal that by Heavens. The next

1041
00:51:59,159 --> 00:52:04,320
one didn't come out until over a decade later, so

1042
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,079
these things take time to think. I mean, I bought

1043
00:52:07,119 --> 00:52:10,719
another one out apart from Digital Demon Illusions.

1044
00:52:12,079 --> 00:52:14,760
Speaker 2: I like yourself. I haven't read it. I won't read

1045
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:15,719
it once it's finished.

1046
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 6: It's done.

1047
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 5: The science fiction one, Witten is amazing. That's interesting because

1048
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,800
we're the same. I won't look at I've never looked

1049
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:25,360
at any of my bobs for to flick through it quickly. Pictures,

1050
00:52:25,639 --> 00:52:28,280
but that's it. That Strasi goes. But I've got nothing

1051
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:30,559
planned for next year, and I think I like to

1052
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,320
keep a clean slate, you know, because I want to

1053
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,840
concentrate on the images for the sci fi novella and

1054
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,480
of course the comic book of the rock Bottom Twits great.

1055
00:52:41,679 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 3: I look forward to that. So briefly, Philip, I did

1056
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:46,920
mention this in an email, but it's something you don't

1057
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,519
know about, but I'm sure that you you'll perhaps find

1058
00:52:49,519 --> 00:52:51,159
out more about it as time goes on.

1059
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:52,119
Speaker 5: Was this.

1060
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 3: I was listening to Preston Dennit's podcast which he produces

1061
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,440
every Friday, and it's usually Paranormal, one of the UFOs,

1062
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,360
and he covers lots of UFO cases and human it's

1063
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,199
very interesting sort of stuff. And we've actually had him

1064
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,800
on the Paranormal Peep Show himself and he mentioned a

1065
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:14,400
case on this particular episode that took place in Bedfordshire

1066
00:53:14,519 --> 00:53:17,559
in nineteen sixty five, and I thought, oh, that's interesting,

1067
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:20,960
and it was Rif Chicksands. Now I'd never heard of

1068
00:53:21,199 --> 00:53:23,440
Rif Chicksands, but I did a quick check on the

1069
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,800
maps and things, and I popped where you were and

1070
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,239
put Rif Chicksands and it put you about twenty minutes

1071
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,639
drive from them, so it's about maybe ten twelve miles

1072
00:53:33,639 --> 00:53:38,480
from you. So this was a story as I understand it.

1073
00:53:38,519 --> 00:53:41,360
Although it's called Rif Chicksands, it was run by the

1074
00:53:41,519 --> 00:53:45,599
US military. They were based there and it was like

1075
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:50,760
a listening station that the witness understood it to be

1076
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:52,519
where they monitored satellites.

1077
00:53:53,199 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 2: From what I've read, it wasn't the case, but maybe

1078
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:59,280
they did as that as well. But from what I've

1079
00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:03,920
gleaned about the place, they basically listened to all incoming

1080
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:09,079
communications from around the world, whether that's radio or broadcasting

1081
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:14,079
or computers or anything. It's a bit like GCHQ of today,

1082
00:54:14,079 --> 00:54:16,800
i'd imagine with their kind of technology, but it was

1083
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,639
advanced technology at the time anyway. And what it was

1084
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,679
is because there was a lot of American military personnel

1085
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:28,440
base there. They had their dependence, their families and children,

1086
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,679
and they lived on houses around the base rather like

1087
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,920
you know, lake and heath or wherever it might be,

1088
00:54:35,039 --> 00:54:38,760
and bent waters and that kind of thing. So what

1089
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,639
happened was that this young girl, she's about fourteen at

1090
00:54:41,679 --> 00:54:44,840
the time, she was playing madminton in her garden on

1091
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:48,880
the base when suddenly she was talking to her friend

1092
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:51,559
and they were shouting and whatever to each other. They

1093
00:54:51,559 --> 00:54:52,639
couldn't hear each other.

1094
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 3: It all went quiet, even though their mouths were moving,

1095
00:54:56,559 --> 00:54:59,760
and so they kind of thought, what's going on? And

1096
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,400
they he looked up and they saw a flins also

1097
00:55:02,519 --> 00:55:05,679
literally above their heads at tree top level. They said,

1098
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:09,079
it's dark underneath. I will play the audio interview and

1099
00:55:09,119 --> 00:55:10,800
I'll put it in this as well so we can

1100
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:13,920
all hear it. But I'm just recapping it for your benefit.

1101
00:55:14,360 --> 00:55:17,039
And because their dad was like the base commander, she

1102
00:55:17,159 --> 00:55:19,440
went into her house and that's when they could hear

1103
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,320
each other. For some reason, this effect, whatever it was,

1104
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,119
broke off. Once she went into the house, she told

1105
00:55:26,159 --> 00:55:29,519
her dad, who came out, and he couldn't hear anything

1106
00:55:29,599 --> 00:55:32,199
once he was outside, but he saw this ufo above

1107
00:55:32,199 --> 00:55:34,360
the thing. So he went back into the house and

1108
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,079
he rang up the base and says, put it on lockdown,

1109
00:55:38,119 --> 00:55:38,599
put it on.

1110
00:55:38,559 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 2: Full of up. We've got an incident.

1111
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,599
Speaker 3: And as he watched it, he said, this ufo started

1112
00:55:43,639 --> 00:55:46,760
to drift away, very very slowly, away from them, and

1113
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,599
the effect that was coming down and where they couldn't

1114
00:55:49,599 --> 00:55:54,119
hear each other slowly wore off. I understood. But nobody

1115
00:55:54,199 --> 00:55:56,679
was allowed in the base or off the base for

1116
00:55:56,679 --> 00:55:59,880
at least twenty four hours, and her dad he drove

1117
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,719
to the base, bill went into the there's supposedly underground

1118
00:56:03,719 --> 00:56:06,840
compartments there where they all went underground, and they were

1119
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,599
doing whatever they have to do in this kind of emergency,

1120
00:56:10,639 --> 00:56:13,960
if you like. And when her dad came home the

1121
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,639
next day from the base, she said, well, what was it?

1122
00:56:17,039 --> 00:56:19,519
And he said, I can't tell you anything. All I

1123
00:56:19,559 --> 00:56:23,320
can say is wasn't one of ours. And she says, well,

1124
00:56:23,639 --> 00:56:26,039
when you say one of ours or you're meaning one

1125
00:56:26,079 --> 00:56:28,880
of ours or not of this earth, And he wouldn't

1126
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,119
say any more than that. And then many many years later,

1127
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:36,000
like maybe ten years later or something, or maybe yeah,

1128
00:56:36,079 --> 00:56:40,360
I'd imagine ten years later, he ventured a bit more

1129
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,800
information about it. I suppose he wasn't working at the

1130
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,039
base at that time anymore, and he said it wasn't

1131
00:56:46,199 --> 00:56:49,079
one of ours, which he had obviously said before, but

1132
00:56:49,159 --> 00:56:53,400
he said simultaneously at six or seven other bases of

1133
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:57,519
the same type of bass listening stations around the world

1134
00:56:58,199 --> 00:57:01,760
also had visits from your those on the very same day,

1135
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:06,360
which was remarkable. They all turned up at these listening

1136
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,679
stations on the very same day. Whether it was the

1137
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:12,519
same UFO went to each listening station or there were

1138
00:57:12,599 --> 00:57:16,159
seven individuals UFOs, we don't know. But it was just

1139
00:57:16,199 --> 00:57:18,599
something that came to light later on when they looked

1140
00:57:18,639 --> 00:57:19,800
into it.

1141
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:24,039
Speaker 8: It's at the incident, but it occurred a four years

1142
00:57:24,079 --> 00:57:27,840
ago in England on a military base. Let's see, it

1143
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:35,039
was about sixty four or sixty five, nineteen sixty four

1144
00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:41,320
or sixty five at rif Chicksands in Bedfordshire, England. I

1145
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:47,559
was a military dependent and the base is a satellite

1146
00:57:47,559 --> 00:57:52,480
communications base. It was in the afternoon, in the daylight,

1147
00:57:53,639 --> 00:57:57,719
and a friend of mine and I were playing badminton

1148
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,440
in the backyard on the base, and we were shouting

1149
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:04,679
and laughing and carrying on, and then we realized that

1150
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,000
we couldn't hear each other. There wasn't any sound at all,

1151
00:58:08,639 --> 00:58:12,480
and we stopped and tried to talk to each other again,

1152
00:58:12,559 --> 00:58:15,039
and still couldn't hear each other, and looked around and

1153
00:58:15,239 --> 00:58:18,639
right above us at the top of the trees. They

1154
00:58:18,679 --> 00:58:24,599
were very old oak trees, so they were maybe forty

1155
00:58:24,719 --> 00:58:30,159
fifty feet high, I guess was a large dark object,

1156
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:35,480
and we couldn't really tell anything from it because we

1157
00:58:35,519 --> 00:58:38,719
could only see the bottom, and we got scared. We

1158
00:58:38,719 --> 00:58:43,239
were just fourteen fifteen years old. And she went inside

1159
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:46,199
the house to get her dad, and inside the house

1160
00:58:46,519 --> 00:58:48,960
he could hear her, and he came out to look

1161
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,800
at it, and we couldn't hear him talking to us either,

1162
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,480
and he couldn't hear us when he was outside, so

1163
00:58:54,519 --> 00:59:00,119
he went back inside and alerted the post, and when

1164
00:59:00,119 --> 00:59:04,119
he went back inside, it started moving off above the treetops,

1165
00:59:04,119 --> 00:59:06,519
and as soon as it wasn't right above us, we

1166
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:11,000
could hear again and I heard the sirens post went

1167
00:59:11,039 --> 00:59:15,400
on alert, and he came back out and watched it

1168
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,719
go off over the trees and it was moving very

1169
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:22,360
slowly and it moved over maybe I don't know, three

1170
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:26,119
or four houses away, and they were housing units.

1171
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:27,119
Speaker 9: So it was still fairly close.

1172
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 8: So, like I said, they were calling me alert and

1173
00:59:29,559 --> 00:59:32,719
he told me to go home. And I lived about

1174
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:33,840
two blocks.

1175
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 9: Away, so I ran home and my.

1176
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:41,039
Speaker 8: Father, who was senior and CEO on the base, was

1177
00:59:41,199 --> 00:59:44,920
just leaving, and every all the people on alert went

1178
00:59:45,079 --> 00:59:47,239
down in what we called the hole. All the sudatellite

1179
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,599
communications stuff was underground, and they went down in the

1180
00:59:50,639 --> 00:59:54,320
hole and the base was closed to all traffic, whether

1181
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:56,519
you lived there or not. They closed the whole base

1182
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:02,400
and he didn't back until in the morning. My father

1183
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:06,159
didn't and when he came back, I asked him what

1184
01:00:06,199 --> 01:00:09,239
it was and he said, I can't tell you. He said,

1185
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,760
all I can say is that it wasn't hours. And

1186
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:14,239
I said, you mean hours hours, or you mean the

1187
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:18,239
Earth's hours, and he wouldn't say anything else. Later, some

1188
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,559
years later, when we were talking about it in the family,

1189
01:00:22,239 --> 01:00:26,559
I asked him again and he said it wasn't hours.

1190
01:00:26,599 --> 01:00:29,800
And I said I know that. And he said, well,

1191
01:00:30,239 --> 01:00:32,800
there are seven bases like the one we were on

1192
01:00:32,920 --> 01:00:37,599
in in the world, seven American bases like that. And

1193
01:00:37,639 --> 01:00:40,599
he said there were sightings at all seven that same

1194
01:00:40,719 --> 01:00:49,199
day a stretch. Yeah, those bases are very small, extremely small.

1195
01:00:49,239 --> 01:00:53,480
There's maybe at the top there's maybe fifty families there,

1196
01:00:54,360 --> 01:01:00,559
plus you know a number of non family people, unaccompanied people. Well,

1197
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:06,840
everything that's military is underground except the satellite antenna them.

1198
01:01:07,159 --> 01:01:09,920
And it's what we called it the elephant cage. It's

1199
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:14,599
a great, big circular structure and it looks like a

1200
01:01:14,599 --> 01:01:18,760
big round circuit cage. Yes, and around the outside of

1201
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,440
these big white things that kind of look like niffles,

1202
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,159
but they're not niffles. It was a close post at

1203
01:01:24,159 --> 01:01:27,559
all times, except you know, if you had some reason

1204
01:01:27,599 --> 01:01:29,920
to go on, then the APIs we or police would

1205
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:31,039
let you on and off, but.

1206
01:01:32,719 --> 01:01:34,519
Speaker 9: You had to have some business there.

1207
01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:36,239
Speaker 8: It wasn't just open to the public.

1208
01:01:36,679 --> 01:01:38,719
Speaker 9: Okay, which shape did that of you?

1209
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 8: Cat? It was round, It was round from the bottom anyway.

1210
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 9: And it was.

1211
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:49,119
Speaker 8: Dark, I'd say, you know, dark black or but it

1212
01:01:49,199 --> 01:01:53,400
was not shiny, it was it was just a dusky

1213
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,880
dark color. Was there any estimate of size.

1214
01:01:57,039 --> 01:01:58,519
Speaker 9: It didn't seem very large.

1215
01:01:59,559 --> 01:02:02,599
Speaker 8: I'm not very good at size and distances, but I'd

1216
01:02:02,679 --> 01:02:11,599
say I'd say it was maybe sixty to eighty feet across. Ye. See,

1217
01:02:12,079 --> 01:02:15,480
I should add the reason I never mentioned this before

1218
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:21,360
was we were told not to talk about it, and

1219
01:02:21,679 --> 01:02:26,079
my father, in that line of work, was was in

1220
01:02:26,119 --> 01:02:29,880
a very sensitive position and it was not uncommon for

1221
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:32,840
us to be told that things that happened on base

1222
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:36,679
were not for public consumption. Yes, but it's always bothered me.

1223
01:02:36,840 --> 01:02:41,480
And I know it's verifiable because other people saw it

1224
01:02:41,519 --> 01:02:44,480
and the base went on alert and it gets that

1225
01:02:44,599 --> 01:02:49,920
it was tracked on their equipment.

1226
01:02:50,239 --> 01:02:55,000
Speaker 9: Yes, how close were How close would that have been

1227
01:02:55,039 --> 01:02:57,239
to you? I said? It was right at the top

1228
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:01,880
of an old maple tree, an old oak tree there, but.

1229
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 8: Not quite overhead. It was overhead over first, and then

1230
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:10,840
it started moving off slowly. And then it's as I

1231
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:14,480
was running home, I looked back because I was fully scared, okay,

1232
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,440
and it was moving off very quickly. Then it just

1233
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:21,599
went zips just But it was before that it was

1234
01:03:21,639 --> 01:03:26,119
not moving like like an airplane or helicopter or anything

1235
01:03:26,159 --> 01:03:27,840
like that, and there was no noise from it.

1236
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:32,559
Speaker 9: Okay, but it would move like to the right in

1237
01:03:32,679 --> 01:03:35,400
all one hundred yards and then over a little bit,

1238
01:03:35,599 --> 01:03:40,400
always on a level movement. Well, I'm glad I finally

1239
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:43,440
told somebody, okay, feels better.

1240
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:47,239
Speaker 8: Let you come up. Remember any information that you havn't

1241
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:49,119
to fasten on to us would like to hear from you,

1242
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:51,960
Thanks very much. Yeah.

1243
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,480
Speaker 2: Wow, that's quite ambascinating here, isn't it. Yeah.

1244
01:03:54,559 --> 01:03:57,800
Speaker 5: I think also that it's quite you know, when a

1245
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:02,000
UFO comes into an airspace from experience from the night

1246
01:04:02,079 --> 01:04:05,639
of April twenty sixteen at eleven fifteen pm and light,

1247
01:04:05,679 --> 01:04:09,599
when we were presented with those huge, massive circular UFOs

1248
01:04:09,599 --> 01:04:12,719
that descended on that cold night on a Saturday night.

1249
01:04:13,079 --> 01:04:15,039
When we spoke, it was like someone that it was

1250
01:04:15,119 --> 01:04:18,079
like it was just snow muffled because there's no one around.

1251
01:04:18,239 --> 01:04:21,519
But for not being able to hear one another, that's

1252
01:04:21,840 --> 01:04:24,599
very These speaks me.

1253
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,039
Speaker 8: Sweet that.

1254
01:04:31,719 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 5: The R one oh one and the R one hundred

1255
01:04:35,239 --> 01:04:40,199
are linked within bases, are not far power Rington Cardington? Yes,

1256
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:41,599
and we know that.

1257
01:04:41,679 --> 01:04:42,039
Speaker 4: John G.

1258
01:04:42,239 --> 01:04:45,599
Speaker 5: Fuller, the author of The Intructed Journey, which Dell deals

1259
01:04:45,599 --> 01:04:48,480
with the Betty Barney hell case, also wrote a book

1260
01:04:48,559 --> 01:04:51,239
called the airmen who would not die, which is based

1261
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:56,119
on the incredible testimony of witnesses through the disruption of

1262
01:04:56,199 --> 01:04:58,679
the R one oh one that came down in France.

1263
01:04:58,719 --> 01:05:01,679
And then of course mediums here in Bedford started bringing

1264
01:05:01,719 --> 01:05:03,800
the crow through from the other side. And of course

1265
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:07,480
the American author whom I wrote to to get some

1266
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:10,199
you know, some reply back, but didn't know he was

1267
01:05:10,199 --> 01:05:12,079
dead for ten years before the Internet.

1268
01:05:12,119 --> 01:05:16,320
Speaker 2: But you know, so there is I think every area has.

1269
01:05:16,239 --> 01:05:19,599
Speaker 5: Its own type of spookiness, like Chicksands and well I

1270
01:05:19,639 --> 01:05:22,320
was going. I wasn't a had the chicks Sands. I don't

1271
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:25,119
know whether it was open in nineteen ninety three and

1272
01:05:25,239 --> 01:05:27,320
nineteen ninety four. I have no idea. I know of

1273
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,760
it because an American lady who worked where we worked at

1274
01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:36,719
the time, she was her husband was stationed at Chicksands.

1275
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,360
I didn't ask much about it, but her name was Amy,

1276
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:44,000
and her husband just up in her late twenties. Her

1277
01:05:44,039 --> 01:05:47,639
husband worked in Chicksands as an American, but she wouldn't

1278
01:05:47,639 --> 01:05:49,480
say any more about it, not nothing to do with

1279
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,480
the UFO. She didn't I didn't ask her at the time.

1280
01:05:51,480 --> 01:05:54,119
I wasn't interested in it, and they were he worked

1281
01:05:54,119 --> 01:05:56,000
there if it was open, I didn't even know it

1282
01:05:56,039 --> 01:05:56,519
was open.

1283
01:05:57,039 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, chicks.

1284
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:02,159
Speaker 3: From what I understand, In nineteen ninety seven, the Americans

1285
01:06:02,239 --> 01:06:05,599
moved off the base and its briefly taken over by

1286
01:06:05,679 --> 01:06:10,199
the ref for about six months to eleven twelve months,

1287
01:06:10,639 --> 01:06:13,880
and then it was taken over by the army and

1288
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,760
now they now use it. It's an mod owned kind

1289
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:21,679
of station and it's still there. It's still open, but

1290
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,760
in a different capacity. They do a lot of teaching

1291
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:29,679
there of technical security and that kind of things. They

1292
01:06:29,719 --> 01:06:31,039
teach members of the forces.

1293
01:06:31,039 --> 01:06:33,239
Speaker 2: They also teach members of the civil service like the

1294
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:37,159
police about listening or spying or whether they have to

1295
01:06:37,199 --> 01:06:40,480
teach there, and so they've changed the nature of the

1296
01:06:40,559 --> 01:06:44,000
job slightly. They use it more of a teaching aid

1297
01:06:44,159 --> 01:06:45,800
rather than a listening post.

1298
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 3: They teach you how to listen. I guess that's what

1299
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:51,239
they use the equipment for. And they've got this huge

1300
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,559
they called it the elephant cage, and it's a circular

1301
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:58,480
ring on the ground. You've perhaps seen it, I don't know,

1302
01:06:58,519 --> 01:07:01,400
but it's made of wires and things like that, and

1303
01:07:01,599 --> 01:07:04,760
it looks like a cage basically that this is presumably

1304
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:10,079
the kind of listening aerial or radar based ground system

1305
01:07:10,119 --> 01:07:12,760
that they would use to monitor their things. And this

1306
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:14,880
is obviously what the UFOs seemed to be interested in.

1307
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,679
Speaker 5: The big ear. Yeah, I told you something funny about

1308
01:07:18,719 --> 01:07:21,840
an American military base, and I couldn't tell you which

1309
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:24,599
one it was because I had long, many long years ago,

1310
01:07:25,039 --> 01:07:28,000
before the Satin navs and the maps were available.

1311
01:07:28,039 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 2: I had my old cart and.

1312
01:07:29,239 --> 01:07:33,199
Speaker 5: I've finished in a function, a clairvoid function, and I

1313
01:07:33,239 --> 01:07:36,760
was driving back dark at night, and I literally got

1314
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:39,960
lost and I found myself driving up to this huge base.

1315
01:07:40,519 --> 01:07:41,639
Speaker 2: And when I got up.

1316
01:07:41,519 --> 01:07:44,119
Speaker 5: There there were these guards up there. I think they

1317
01:07:44,119 --> 01:07:46,400
were armed on base they're allowed to be. And I

1318
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:48,280
drove up and thought, oh my goodness, but I don't

1319
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,000
get shop. So I pulled over so and I'm awfully sorry,

1320
01:07:51,079 --> 01:07:51,840
I am lost.

1321
01:07:52,519 --> 01:07:53,199
Speaker 6: Can you help me?

1322
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 5: And two of they were Americans, and they said, you're

1323
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:02,480
from England and you're a last as you know. They

1324
01:08:02,519 --> 01:08:06,480
were wonderful. They gave me clear instructions of how to

1325
01:08:06,519 --> 01:08:09,400
get onto the motorway and which way to take, and

1326
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:12,119
it made laugh and I felt pro but and one

1327
01:08:12,159 --> 01:08:17,239
of them said, you're very British and I will always remember,

1328
01:08:17,399 --> 01:08:19,680
but whatever basic it was, and people say, well, I

1329
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:22,119
can't even remember, but I know it wasn't near here,

1330
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:25,600
but it was occupied by Americans because they spoke American

1331
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:28,199
that let me tell you. They were incredible and I

1332
01:08:28,239 --> 01:08:31,079
were think England lost, but they're from America.

1333
01:08:31,159 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 2: I don't know exactly where I needed to go in

1334
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:37,399
my own country. That's funny, isn't it. It's incredible. Yeah,

1335
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:39,279
but they would pointing a way for you in your

1336
01:08:39,319 --> 01:08:41,239
own country. Yeah, yeah, that.

1337
01:08:41,199 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 5: Would make sense for chicksands because Amy where we worked,

1338
01:08:45,079 --> 01:08:46,560
she was there for a few years and they went

1339
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:49,199
back to America. So I didn't know what to do

1340
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:53,000
with a reaper posting or whether it was closing down

1341
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:55,600
that section, I don't know, but yes, he was working

1342
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:58,720
there from ninety three certainly onwards for a few years.

1343
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:02,359
They certainly we went around in sixty five anyway. So yes,

1344
01:09:03,039 --> 01:09:08,920
well when you get sorry, Broie, Saucer is astonishing, isn't it.

1345
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:13,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely. It does seem to bed for

1346
01:09:13,159 --> 01:09:15,840
the area does seem to be haunted by flying saurces. They

1347
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:17,239
still have an interest, don't they.

1348
01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:19,439
Speaker 3: I mean, you've got loot An airport down the road,

1349
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:22,319
half an hour away. You've got chicksands up the road

1350
01:09:23,159 --> 01:09:25,319
and then of course you've seen your Yeah, you've got

1351
01:09:25,359 --> 01:09:26,079
your your.

1352
01:09:26,199 --> 01:09:30,119
Speaker 2: Cardington Hall hangers and things. There's a lot of interesting

1353
01:09:30,239 --> 01:09:32,159
things for them to look at. I think.

1354
01:09:34,119 --> 01:09:36,560
Speaker 3: Right, I think we better draw this interview to a close.

1355
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:41,279
So thank you once again, gentlemen, for your time, and

1356
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,399
maybe we wish you a merry Christmas and a happy

1357
01:09:44,399 --> 01:09:47,359
new Year from the Paranormal Peep Show Andy myself and

1358
01:09:47,359 --> 01:09:51,119
also Ben. And have you got any plans for Christmas?

1359
01:09:51,239 --> 01:09:53,720
Is it family gathered around the fire type of thing?

1360
01:09:54,279 --> 01:09:56,880
Speaker 5: Well, I think it more in line of that scene

1361
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:59,199
on Independence Day when they're all on the top of

1362
01:09:59,199 --> 01:10:02,640
that building having a party, wearing their UFO hats and

1363
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:05,560
asking them to come down you know here we are. No,

1364
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:08,079
it's it's a it will be a family matter, so

1365
01:10:08,479 --> 01:10:10,359
it will be a quiet one for us. So that'd

1366
01:10:10,359 --> 01:10:13,079
be lovely looking forward to that. And I hacked you too,

1367
01:10:13,119 --> 01:10:14,720
do I hope you also have it?

1368
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:19,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, well my daughter's coming down from the Orkney Islands

1369
01:10:19,119 --> 01:10:21,680
to join us, so that'd be nice. So yeah, that'd

1370
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,199
be a Christmas to remember, I hope.

1371
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,279
Speaker 2: Right. Thank you very much, Thank you very much.

1372
01:10:28,359 --> 01:10:33,520
Speaker 4: Neil Thank you, Hey folks, welcome back to the Paranormal

1373
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:37,640
Peek Show with myself, Andy Chaplin, Neil Ward, ben Emen Jones,

1374
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:41,319
and Gary whose last name Robinson.

1375
01:10:41,399 --> 01:10:41,720
Speaker 5: There we go.

1376
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:48,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, so that was a fascinating talk and interview with

1377
01:10:48,199 --> 01:10:51,840
the Kinsella twins. Right, Neil, what have we got next?

1378
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:52,359
What's up?

1379
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:53,119
Speaker 6: Well?

1380
01:10:53,159 --> 01:10:56,119
Speaker 2: Gary has mentioned that he's having the interest. I mean,

1381
01:10:56,159 --> 01:10:58,279
we heard some of the interesting kind of experience there

1382
01:10:58,319 --> 01:11:01,239
with Philip and Ronny, and Gary has mentioned to me

1383
01:11:01,319 --> 01:11:04,000
that he's also had an interesting story that you'd like

1384
01:11:04,039 --> 01:11:06,319
to relate. And we do like ghostly tales and things

1385
01:11:06,359 --> 01:11:09,079
around the fire at Christmas time. So Gary, do you

1386
01:11:09,119 --> 01:11:12,079
want to enlighten as to what's been happening with you?

1387
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:14,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's not a very Christmas story, but it's a

1388
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:19,079
good one, I think, so I reckon It started roughly

1389
01:11:19,119 --> 01:11:23,479
about six months ago, and what was happening was I

1390
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:26,680
kept having these dreams. I would say, on a good week,

1391
01:11:26,760 --> 01:11:28,600
I would have one dream and on a bad week

1392
01:11:29,159 --> 01:11:32,079
three dreams, always the same thing. I would wake up

1393
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:35,520
in a very dark old room, like something out of

1394
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:39,800
some horrible movie, and I wouldn't know where I was,

1395
01:11:40,159 --> 01:11:44,079
and I'd be aware of a presence moving towards the room,

1396
01:11:44,279 --> 01:11:48,079
coming to get me. And these dreams would have such

1397
01:11:48,079 --> 01:11:52,760
a deep sort of sense of terror that they were

1398
01:11:53,039 --> 01:11:56,640
impall in me, such like a deep rooted feeling. It

1399
01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:01,119
was very personal, and so I'd wake cut feeling very emotional,

1400
01:12:01,159 --> 01:12:04,199
and I would I would be calling out in my sleep.

1401
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:08,079
And this went on and on and on the same thing,

1402
01:12:08,199 --> 01:12:13,159
and then it kind of expanded and I started getting

1403
01:12:13,199 --> 01:12:16,399
these experiences where I was waking up early in the morning.

1404
01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:20,399
Is it the hypnogogic or hypnopompic state where you're slowly

1405
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:23,960
coming into consciousness one of those days this is.

1406
01:12:24,039 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 6: Nag when you're hitting the pump pics when you're going

1407
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:28,840
off to sleep. I think was the other way around.

1408
01:12:29,000 --> 01:12:29,680
I can't remember.

1409
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:33,960
Speaker 7: So a number of times I heard voices, like a

1410
01:12:34,000 --> 01:12:36,760
whispering voice, and this this is where it started to

1411
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:40,239
get really freaky. On one occasion, the voice clearly said

1412
01:12:40,359 --> 01:12:44,319
let me in, and that really freaked me out. I

1413
01:12:44,319 --> 01:12:48,359
spent a few days thinking about that. Another time it

1414
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:53,279
said listen to me. This went on and on. There

1415
01:12:53,319 --> 01:12:55,199
there were a few times where I couldn't make out

1416
01:12:55,199 --> 01:13:00,920
what it was saying. And around the same time, during

1417
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:06,439
these months, I found myself withdrawing from everyone social wise,

1418
01:13:06,560 --> 01:13:08,680
Like I stopped going to music events, you know, because

1419
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:11,039
being in and base seeing, I'm always out a lot.

1420
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:13,720
I kind of stepped back from that. I haven't given

1421
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:16,560
contecular Ben's channel recently. I haven't been engaging. I couldn't

1422
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:20,119
explain it. Had a lot of frustrations, a lot of anger.

1423
01:13:20,119 --> 01:13:21,840
I didn't know where it was coming from. There was

1424
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:27,199
nothing particularly going wrong in life, but these dreams pursued

1425
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:30,640
and it became exhausting, you know, getting up some mornings

1426
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:34,159
thinking that's the same thing again. You get the emotional

1427
01:13:35,079 --> 01:13:37,840
kind of raining as you wake up from it. Some mornings,

1428
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:40,000
you know, I wake up five am, couldn't get back

1429
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,680
to sleep. And then I had another dream where it

1430
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:46,960
was like a sketch from the show of Stranger Things,

1431
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:51,000
like a kid's house and standing over it was this

1432
01:13:51,079 --> 01:13:54,399
kind of horrible shadow thing with his hands over the house,

1433
01:13:55,039 --> 01:13:56,880
and I thought, wow, this is this is bad. So

1434
01:13:58,319 --> 01:14:01,720
around the same time, I was listening to Mark Bierski.

1435
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:03,920
I don't know if you guys know who Mark Bajersky is.

1436
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:08,520
He's an energy here though, a guy from your students

1437
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:12,960
in Spain and He talks a lot about non physical attachments,

1438
01:14:13,079 --> 01:14:19,000
demonic attachments, and he says that although people shouldn't use

1439
01:14:19,079 --> 01:14:22,359
these as an excuse for problems in our life. In

1440
01:14:22,359 --> 01:14:23,920
other words, you can't go around saying, oh, you know,

1441
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,520
I did this and I'm a bad person because I

1442
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:28,640
must have an attachment. He says, there are lots of

1443
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:31,960
cases of this and people don't understand it and it

1444
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:36,279
goes undiagnosed. And he started saying, you know, firstly, you'll

1445
01:14:36,319 --> 01:14:39,760
not just that your Actually she's got a lot of anger.

1446
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:41,960
And I thought, well, hold a minute, this is you know,

1447
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,319
this is what I'm going through. So I went to

1448
01:14:45,359 --> 01:14:50,199
a friend of mine who was a psychic, and she's

1449
01:14:50,319 --> 01:14:52,439
been doing that since she was a child. She's into

1450
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:55,960
every aspect of the psychic world. And she often tells

1451
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:59,000
me stories about how she goes to a place that

1452
01:14:59,119 --> 01:15:02,960
she claims it is the realm that ayahuasca's users go

1453
01:15:03,079 --> 01:15:07,239
to it and meets different entities and whatnot.

1454
01:15:07,279 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 2: She tells me some pretty dark stories, and she works

1455
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:10,199
with a.

1456
01:15:10,119 --> 01:15:13,239
Speaker 7: Lot of famous bands and does like psy could work

1457
01:15:13,279 --> 01:15:15,640
with them anyway. She sent me a message after I

1458
01:15:15,720 --> 01:15:19,439
explained this to her, and she said, so I had

1459
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:23,359
to look into this for you, and she said you

1460
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:27,560
had something, she said, and it was very nice. She says,

1461
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:29,399
I'm not going to tell you what it was. She says,

1462
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:30,399
I don't want to frighten you.

1463
01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:31,640
Speaker 6: But it's gone.

1464
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:35,399
Speaker 7: She said, when you go to sleep tonight, you shouldn't

1465
01:15:35,399 --> 01:15:38,159
have any more trouble. And she said to me, if

1466
01:15:38,159 --> 01:15:40,560
it comes back, because they sometimes do come back, let

1467
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:40,880
me know.

1468
01:15:41,239 --> 01:15:42,560
Speaker 4: She says, I'll get rid of it again.

1469
01:15:43,079 --> 01:15:44,800
Speaker 7: She says, it's best if I don't tell you what

1470
01:15:44,920 --> 01:15:45,279
it is.

1471
01:15:46,079 --> 01:15:46,880
Speaker 6: You have the weird thing.

1472
01:15:47,159 --> 01:15:49,560
Speaker 7: I went to sleep that first night after I telling

1473
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:54,239
me that, and I felt in my sleep like I

1474
01:15:54,359 --> 01:15:57,520
was in a different place. I was in a safe place.

1475
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:01,000
I was being told that I was somewhere safe. And

1476
01:16:01,039 --> 01:16:04,479
I had that for days afterwards, until I felt like

1477
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:06,039
a peace mm hmm.

1478
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:10,399
Speaker 4: But has it has it gone permanently? And it's like

1479
01:16:11,279 --> 01:16:12,159
nothing sense.

1480
01:16:12,319 --> 01:16:17,439
Speaker 7: Nothing's come back, nothing until sleeping with a crucifix as well.

1481
01:16:19,239 --> 01:16:22,560
Speaker 4: So with that, I've got to ask, Usually there's a

1482
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:25,920
reason or there's an opening that bring these things in.

1483
01:16:26,359 --> 01:16:28,279
Can you pinpoint what that might have been?

1484
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:32,560
Speaker 7: Well, I think there's a couple of things because without

1485
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:36,239
wanting to talk about Mark Boyersky too much. He puts

1486
01:16:36,279 --> 01:16:42,399
down drinking as in weiji boards and ayahuasca as courted

1487
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:46,039
people getting attachments that can affect them in these ways.

1488
01:16:46,039 --> 01:16:48,159
And obviously my wife is doing a lot of ayahuasca,

1489
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:53,199
but Germanic, so she should have been protected. I can't

1490
01:16:53,239 --> 01:16:54,880
remember if I told you guys in one of these

1491
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:59,319
shows that there was an incidents at one of Herst

1492
01:16:59,359 --> 01:17:03,560
sessions where a young Mexican athlete in his twenties did

1493
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:08,239
ayahuasca followed by a psychedelic from a frog in the

1494
01:17:08,279 --> 01:17:11,920
same session. Right, he never woke up in the morning

1495
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:15,119
around the same time that they were in that ceremony.

1496
01:17:15,199 --> 01:17:18,279
I'm here in England. I have one of these dreams

1497
01:17:18,279 --> 01:17:21,000
where I saw, and this is gonna sound bizarre, this

1498
01:17:21,039 --> 01:17:23,840
window behind me. I saw a figure of a young

1499
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:26,840
guy climbed through the window, walk across the room, stop

1500
01:17:27,159 --> 01:17:30,399
going around and look at me, got through the door.

1501
01:17:31,239 --> 01:17:34,279
So was there some kind of connection between me and

1502
01:17:34,319 --> 01:17:37,960
her because she was an iron osca opened fire firewall

1503
01:17:38,079 --> 01:17:41,239
or something like that, and that led to something darker?

1504
01:17:41,279 --> 01:17:41,840
I don't know.

1505
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:45,920
Speaker 4: I think you mean, so you think it possibly the

1506
01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:48,399
connection with this this guy, and I assume that he

1507
01:17:48,439 --> 01:17:51,319
passed over to spirit and that was his He never

1508
01:17:51,399 --> 01:17:51,800
came back.

1509
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:52,079
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1510
01:17:52,119 --> 01:17:55,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you say that that could have opened a

1511
01:17:55,079 --> 01:17:57,560
porcal or the doorway, and then something else came through that.

1512
01:17:58,000 --> 01:17:58,239
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1513
01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:02,720
Speaker 7: I'm wondering if that's the case about the time where

1514
01:18:02,720 --> 01:18:05,960
it all started for me and that dream where I

1515
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:10,159
saw that figure, it's being with the same feeling as

1516
01:18:10,199 --> 01:18:14,359
these other dreams. If I was to make a dramatic

1517
01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:18,920
slash pop culture comparison, think about stranger things when the

1518
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:22,000
demogra has come in for the bits, that's kind of

1519
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,640
what it felt like, but also on a personal level

1520
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:28,880
where something was after me, very strange.

1521
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:31,800
Speaker 4: The thing is we are at war because I've I've

1522
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:35,039
experienced actually similar things, so that's not exactly the same

1523
01:18:35,079 --> 01:18:38,920
that similar things, and where we're at war, there's in

1524
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:42,800
this in the spiritual realms, there are good, wonderful, loving

1525
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:45,239
beings that love us and want to help us, and

1526
01:18:45,279 --> 01:18:48,119
there are we're not allowed to swear, but not so

1527
01:18:48,279 --> 01:18:51,960
nice one. We have a very very dark, destructive agenda

1528
01:18:52,079 --> 01:18:55,600
for humanity and sort of a sliding scale of everything

1529
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:58,399
in between. And so far as I'm concerned, we're we're

1530
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:01,800
at war, and there's there's there's a force that wants

1531
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:03,479
to help us, and there's a force that wants to

1532
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:05,560
utterly destroy us out then.

1533
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:08,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, so it goes back to the bad things in

1534
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:13,560
the world today being done to be the potential entities

1535
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:18,840
that need that negativity to feed off. Is that the

1536
01:19:19,319 --> 01:19:21,359
attention explanation for the from the madness?

1537
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,680
Speaker 4: Yes, because it doesn't make sense. I mean, I keep

1538
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:28,319
going back to labour and Kiirs Starmer he looks so

1539
01:19:29,039 --> 01:19:32,359
he looks so kind of harmless and so kind of like, oh,

1540
01:19:32,439 --> 01:19:35,880
he's here to help everybody. The amount of harm that

1541
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:40,119
that man is doing to this country, destroying this country.

1542
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:44,760
And don't forget these people they go to. He was asked,

1543
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:47,680
Keir Starmer was asked, where do your lordies like Parliament

1544
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:51,279
or DeVos? Instantly he said DeVos without a battle of

1545
01:19:51,279 --> 01:19:55,439
an eyelid, Davots. So these people go to secret societies.

1546
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:59,960
They go to places like Bohemian Grove worshiping a giant

1547
01:20:00,159 --> 01:20:05,920
sixty foot l in front called Molloch doing mock baby sacrifices.

1548
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:08,600
Now I'm not saying that the baby was real, and

1549
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:11,319
I'm not saying that kirstarm actually does them, but I

1550
01:20:11,359 --> 01:20:16,079
wouldn't be surprised if he goes to similar things like this. So,

1551
01:20:16,239 --> 01:20:20,239
and we've got a satanic Hollywood Arena, We've got satanic

1552
01:20:20,239 --> 01:20:22,800
and you probably know this. In the music industry, there's

1553
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:25,760
a satanic element. And that's not saying everyone in the

1554
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:31,199
music industry is satanist, but a lot have let's just say,

1555
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:35,399
the companies or the funders or the people behind it

1556
01:20:36,039 --> 01:20:39,840
have dark things going on. And actually, to back this up,

1557
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:43,359
have you heard Gary of the one of the guys

1558
01:20:43,359 --> 01:20:48,079
from Boyzone, of all things Boyzone, who's basically said that

1559
01:20:48,319 --> 01:20:51,520
the music industry is satanic and that satanic rituals are

1560
01:20:51,560 --> 01:20:55,359
being done on every album and every piece of music

1561
01:20:55,359 --> 01:20:58,760
that's created.

1562
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 7: That boysone have heard that before, and I've heard it

1563
01:21:02,840 --> 01:21:03,920
from Mark Devlin.

1564
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:04,840
Speaker 6: As well, and it doesn't surprise me.

1565
01:21:04,880 --> 01:21:08,239
Speaker 7: And there was a brief period about ten years ago

1566
01:21:08,279 --> 01:21:13,399
where I was involved with Interscope Eminem's label, Yeah, and

1567
01:21:14,159 --> 01:21:17,039
they wanted a track Dive out of my label. They

1568
01:21:17,039 --> 01:21:19,199
wanted to add it to their cachet that they offer

1569
01:21:19,279 --> 01:21:21,479
up to their pop stars. And at the same time

1570
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:23,720
they were trying to sign a young guy that worked

1571
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:26,680
for me, a vocalist and his boy band. They would

1572
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:30,560
get pressured and they were seeing some things that they

1573
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:32,399
didn't like, and their dad just didn't let them go

1574
01:21:32,399 --> 01:21:35,560
through with it, and they eventually stayed Los Angeles and

1575
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:36,560
came back home.

1576
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 6: So yeah, I do know there's a lot of weird

1577
01:21:39,039 --> 01:21:39,840
things going on.

1578
01:21:40,239 --> 01:21:43,279
Speaker 4: And so I've just found it, going to drop it

1579
01:21:43,319 --> 01:21:46,239
into chat, just fed it on YouTube. I'm pretty quick

1580
01:21:46,279 --> 01:21:51,000
with fine of these things. What's his name? What's his name?

1581
01:21:51,079 --> 01:21:55,279
I think it's Shane Lynch. There we go boy, his

1582
01:21:55,359 --> 01:21:58,319
own Shane Lynch. If anyone's wanting to find out what's

1583
01:21:58,399 --> 01:22:00,720
really going on behind the scenes. There's others that have

1584
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:03,680
come out as well. There's other music industry people who

1585
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:06,159
basically said that they've sold their soul to the devil.

1586
01:22:06,520 --> 01:22:09,279
And you know a lot of people think, oh, you know, haha,

1587
01:22:09,319 --> 01:22:12,279
isn't it funny, But they mean it in a literal sense.

1588
01:22:12,359 --> 01:22:16,960
I think Lady Gargarth, I think Beyonce. I think there's

1589
01:22:16,960 --> 01:22:20,319
a few others. There's a whole load of clips of

1590
01:22:20,359 --> 01:22:22,439
these of these stars all saying the same thing, that

1591
01:22:22,479 --> 01:22:24,960
they've sold their soul. And I think I'm right in

1592
01:22:25,079 --> 01:22:26,439
saying and you might be able to back me up

1593
01:22:26,439 --> 01:22:29,239
on this. Neil and Ben I think it's Beyonce who

1594
01:22:29,239 --> 01:22:31,840
says that when she's on stage, it's not really her performing,

1595
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:34,840
it's like she gets possessed or she allows something in

1596
01:22:35,359 --> 01:22:37,800
to allow her to perform. Have you guys, that's what?

1597
01:22:38,239 --> 01:22:40,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, Well, I'm glad Gary mentioned Mark Devin because he's

1598
01:22:41,159 --> 01:22:43,439
he's no one more than him has done anything like this,

1599
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:46,199
because he's a club he is a he is a

1600
01:22:46,239 --> 01:22:49,279
club DJ, and he knows.

1601
01:22:49,039 --> 01:22:51,600
Speaker 4: He's lodges that he has said because I've not come.

1602
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:54,760
Speaker 6: Well basically says everyone. He mentioned Boys and he mentioned

1603
01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:58,800
several artists, Beyonce, everyone who has achieved anything within this

1604
01:22:58,920 --> 01:23:04,039
industry has been through this filter, which involves horrible things

1605
01:23:04,079 --> 01:23:10,199
they've had to do, including sexual abuse. And it's amazing.

1606
01:23:10,239 --> 01:23:12,119
Now it's boys own guy. I mean Boys Owe were

1607
01:23:12,119 --> 01:23:14,119
the biggest thing on earth. There were this doubly based

1608
01:23:14,159 --> 01:23:17,319
boy band. I remember, and you know, and they were

1609
01:23:19,359 --> 01:23:21,479
they were like top of the charts and everythink I

1610
01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:24,000
remember they had a couple of good songs. Actually, and

1611
01:23:24,039 --> 01:23:26,239
he's someone in his position has got nothing to gain

1612
01:23:26,319 --> 01:23:28,920
by coming out and talking about this sort of thing.

1613
01:23:28,960 --> 01:23:31,800
He's just been David eite and canceled before you know it.

1614
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:35,239
But it's and then you see the same thing in Hollywood,

1615
01:23:35,279 --> 01:23:38,319
of course, and the idea of selling your soul, the

1616
01:23:38,319 --> 01:23:44,319
idea of you making a decision to exchange something in

1617
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:50,239
a satanic deal, that is classic dark occultism, and it

1618
01:23:50,239 --> 01:23:52,720
can be found through our history. It goes right back

1619
01:23:52,760 --> 01:23:55,640
to things like Adam and Eve and Jesus being tempted

1620
01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:59,159
and things like this, and there's no reason why it

1621
01:23:59,159 --> 01:24:00,119
shouldn't exist.

1622
01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:00,680
Speaker 2: In real world.

1623
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:03,520
Speaker 6: And indeed, I've heard the phrase, I don't know who

1624
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:05,520
coined it. The best trick the devil ever Pool was

1625
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:09,840
convincing that he doesn't exist. And this could explain why.

1626
01:24:10,720 --> 01:24:13,640
You know, atheists more than anyone, can be susceptible to

1627
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:17,119
this kind of thing because they don't believe they're doing anything.

1628
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:20,399
They don't please anything they're to be frightened of. And

1629
01:24:21,359 --> 01:24:23,239
when it comes to possession. I'm glad Gary you're on

1630
01:24:23,279 --> 01:24:26,039
the men now, definitely, and of course I appreciate. I

1631
01:24:26,079 --> 01:24:29,680
did notice your absence from from my channel and community, which.

1632
01:24:29,479 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 4: We do from everything.

1633
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:33,159
Speaker 7: Ben I just for some reason I couldn't face YouTube

1634
01:24:33,159 --> 01:24:38,000
anymore going out. I've been completely off the met I did.

1635
01:24:38,119 --> 01:24:39,960
Speaker 6: I did wonder. I'm glad because if you did speak

1636
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:41,760
privately and I did you think? You sent me a

1637
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:45,199
Facebook message and it's good to see you again. I'm

1638
01:24:45,199 --> 01:24:48,159
glad you're on the men. That's probably primary feeling about this,

1639
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:51,359
But of course I'm I would be Obviously, I don't

1640
01:24:51,359 --> 01:24:54,000
expect you to do this because you've been in this position,

1641
01:24:54,039 --> 01:24:56,159
You've actually had to deal with it yourself. But I'm

1642
01:24:56,199 --> 01:24:59,760
curious about what this. This lady didn't tell you, and

1643
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:01,319
she said it was best you don't know.

1644
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:03,640
Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm curious, But at the same time, I don't

1645
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:07,399
want to know because someone that I trussed just does.

1646
01:25:07,279 --> 01:25:09,399
Speaker 2: That make you more frightened? When she says you don't

1647
01:25:09,399 --> 01:25:10,960
want to know, you're thinking, oh my god.

1648
01:25:11,359 --> 01:25:12,319
Speaker 6: Yeah. I got to be honest.

1649
01:25:12,319 --> 01:25:15,720
Speaker 7: I couldn't sleep well, obviously I could sleep, but I

1650
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:21,560
found it very unsettling hitting the set jee by being watched.

1651
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:22,199
Speaker 2: Is it?

1652
01:25:22,279 --> 01:25:23,000
Speaker 6: Is it lurking?

1653
01:25:23,119 --> 01:25:24,600
Speaker 7: But at the same time I felt like it had

1654
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:27,800
been flushed. I felt disconnected from whatever it was that

1655
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:29,000
was always lurking.

1656
01:25:29,720 --> 01:25:30,439
Speaker 6: F'sc amating.

1657
01:25:31,840 --> 01:25:33,920
Speaker 4: I mean, had Gary, have you ever done a weedy

1658
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:36,680
board or done anything that might have opened or was

1659
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:39,640
it purely this this soul that you saw or that

1660
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:41,319
might have opened up a porter. If you think of

1661
01:25:41,359 --> 01:25:42,279
anything else that it might have.

1662
01:25:42,279 --> 01:25:44,760
Speaker 7: Been my only thing really because I never even did

1663
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:48,319
the ayahuasca by any micro boating, so I never opened

1664
01:25:48,359 --> 01:25:53,640
myself up. But my wife, she she did ayahuasca like

1665
01:25:53,800 --> 01:25:56,359
multiple times, and I actually did all these really powerful

1666
01:25:56,399 --> 01:25:59,359
psychedelics to the point where the night of the Young

1667
01:25:59,399 --> 01:26:01,239
Guy died, she said that she was out there in

1668
01:26:01,279 --> 01:26:04,159
the galaxy and she thought, oh, I can't get home.

1669
01:26:04,960 --> 01:26:06,640
She said, I don't know how to get back, and

1670
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:08,800
if I don't get back, he's going to look after

1671
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:09,560
the kids.

1672
01:26:10,079 --> 01:26:10,520
Speaker 4: You see.

1673
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 6: It's the thing, is Gary like, because you're in an

1674
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:16,319
intimate relationship with somebody who is involved in this that

1675
01:26:16,359 --> 01:26:18,840
could have had had effected. It doesn't mean that she's

1676
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:19,399
in danger.

1677
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:24,439
Speaker 4: They could have bout what kind of thing, isn't I mean? Forget?

1678
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:27,600
Speaker 7: Then I was going to say, because we just touched

1679
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:30,399
on movies, because you're a fan of June, have you

1680
01:26:30,439 --> 01:26:34,319
been watching June Property, Because there's an interesting storyline where

1681
01:26:34,359 --> 01:26:39,079
they outlawed people intelligence and they have people selling artificial

1682
01:26:39,159 --> 01:26:41,399
intelligence robots and animals and stuff.

1683
01:26:42,279 --> 01:26:44,520
Speaker 6: Right that sounds interesting because I mean, I don't I've

1684
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:47,279
boycotted all the pointless sequels and remakes and spin off

1685
01:26:47,319 --> 01:26:49,560
because they tend to they tend to be very, very

1686
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:52,920
insulting and don't do credit to the original franchise. I mean,

1687
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:55,800
I didn't like I know, you disagree, I think I

1688
01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:57,960
think we disagreed on this, but I didn't like the

1689
01:26:58,039 --> 01:27:00,439
new Jude, the new Dennis Field of June. I love

1690
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:02,840
the David Lynch one, but this one I didn't really

1691
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:03,680
get anything out of.

1692
01:27:04,199 --> 01:27:07,840
Speaker 7: Well, the shut links to the movies is spensive universe,

1693
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:10,319
but I thought it would interesting that they've just introduced

1694
01:27:10,319 --> 01:27:14,039
this subplot where AI is illegal and all the planets

1695
01:27:14,039 --> 01:27:17,800
within the June system hunting down people that are selling

1696
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:21,640
these illegal AI creatures and robots and stuff.

1697
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:24,239
Speaker 6: That is fascinating because I'm aware of like the backstory

1698
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:27,800
of the Junie universe, the Butlerians you had, where humans

1699
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:30,760
have to go to war against these intelligent machines, which

1700
01:27:30,800 --> 01:27:33,319
is why the June French you know, the June movies

1701
01:27:33,359 --> 01:27:35,600
have been made. And indeed, the original June book has

1702
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:38,960
such a steampunk feel to it because there's no sophisticated

1703
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:41,880
electronics in June. I mean, they have like basic things

1704
01:27:41,920 --> 01:27:45,800
such as you know, instruments on spaceship panels, they have

1705
01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:50,760
X ray machines in hospitals. But that's about it. But yeah,

1706
01:27:50,800 --> 01:27:52,479
I mean that sounds very interesting. I might give that

1707
01:27:52,479 --> 01:27:54,520
a go just because of that plot element is enough

1708
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:55,199
to encourage me.

1709
01:27:55,319 --> 01:27:56,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.

1710
01:27:58,279 --> 01:28:02,039
Speaker 7: In the creative world right now, with New Journey and creating,

1711
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:05,560
also music production, all these things are being affected by AI.

1712
01:28:06,199 --> 01:28:07,920
There's a lot of people that are not happy with it.

1713
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:09,880
There's a lot of people who think it's actually satanic

1714
01:28:11,039 --> 01:28:13,439
and here it is New Dune TV show.

1715
01:28:14,159 --> 01:28:15,920
Speaker 6: Well, there's some people have said a lot of things

1716
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:20,119
about how in the same way the EVP happens, where

1717
01:28:20,399 --> 01:28:24,800
spiritual entities will actually manifest on things such as tape.

1718
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:31,880
And there's itc instrument into transit communication, transcommunication instrumental communication

1719
01:28:33,279 --> 01:28:36,640
that obviously computers will be can also be used by

1720
01:28:36,640 --> 01:28:40,279
these things. And there's this strange feature of now there's

1721
01:28:40,319 --> 01:28:42,319
never been confirmed, but there was that Low but that

1722
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:47,359
appearing low Ab, this horrible looking, ugly and frightening looking

1723
01:28:47,399 --> 01:28:49,479
woman who kept appearing in AI R.

1724
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:54,119
Speaker 2: And the person who says the person who first created doesn't.

1725
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:57,359
Speaker 6: Know where how it came from, explain this.

1726
01:28:57,479 --> 01:29:00,359
Speaker 4: So it's an app that creates ai art.

1727
01:29:00,560 --> 01:29:04,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a Swedish person was she was saying, she's

1728
01:29:04,840 --> 01:29:08,199
creating she's no one knows who her real name, but

1729
01:29:08,239 --> 01:29:11,439
she's got like but she was creating art and suddenly

1730
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:13,359
the strange, horrible creature appeared in it.

1731
01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:16,680
Speaker 2: It's like a feminine, demonic looking being.

1732
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:19,079
Speaker 6: If you look. I've just just put a low low

1733
01:29:19,319 --> 01:29:21,720
l O A B into Google Images and you'll see

1734
01:29:21,720 --> 01:29:27,079
it now. Obviously it's too late now because because it's

1735
01:29:27,119 --> 01:29:30,840
now out there, AI art is now all the AI

1736
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:33,319
art apps are now picking them up, so it's kind

1737
01:29:33,359 --> 01:29:36,000
of like become It's like this man thing. You know,

1738
01:29:36,039 --> 01:29:38,000
people are dreaming about it because they've seen it on

1739
01:29:38,359 --> 01:29:41,399
in the media and on TV and on computers. But

1740
01:29:41,439 --> 01:29:44,000
it's just just an example what we're talking about here, pretty.

1741
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:46,119
Speaker 2: Do you know?

1742
01:29:46,520 --> 01:29:49,680
Speaker 6: I mean Jerry Marsinsky, I've been I've been watching Jerry Marsinski,

1743
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:55,239
who's a former psychiatrist who said he was when he

1744
01:29:55,279 --> 01:29:57,880
was trained, he was told he has deal with schizophrenics

1745
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:00,359
and people like that, and he was told never human

1746
01:30:00,399 --> 01:30:03,319
them in their delusions. Don't get into discussions about anything

1747
01:30:03,359 --> 01:30:05,960
they talk about, because it's all it's all part of

1748
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:09,039
the pathologies in their head. Never even never, never even

1749
01:30:09,039 --> 01:30:12,159
talked to the patient about it. But anyway, he broke

1750
01:30:12,199 --> 01:30:14,960
that rule and he made some astonishing discoveries about what

1751
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:19,159
the mental patients actually were enduring it and he even

1752
01:30:19,239 --> 01:30:23,039
had some confirmation in terms of his own experiences there

1753
01:30:23,039 --> 01:30:26,840
are my level intensities that were actually affecting them. Very

1754
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:35,439
interesting chap, Jerry Masinski, Yeah, very instant chap. Actually similar

1755
01:30:35,479 --> 01:30:37,640
to your story, Gary, you know, and even the late

1756
01:30:37,680 --> 01:30:40,600
great Gareth Davis was concerned about this, and it was

1757
01:30:40,680 --> 01:30:44,159
just before he died. But he had some horrible experiences.

1758
01:30:45,079 --> 01:30:47,319
For example, even in his own home, he was just

1759
01:30:47,359 --> 01:30:49,840
out in the garage where they got a washing machine,

1760
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:53,399
and he describes this horrible experience he had, what happened.

1761
01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:57,960
Then he felt a moment of horror and revulsion and

1762
01:30:58,039 --> 01:30:59,960
he felt he was under spiritual attack at that moment,

1763
01:31:00,039 --> 01:31:05,000
and he talks he talks about it in the Mindset

1764
01:31:05,039 --> 01:31:07,520
podcast with some of the programs we did. And then

1765
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:10,439
when he was he was actually visiting his family in Wales.

1766
01:31:10,239 --> 01:31:12,159
Speaker 2: Where he comes from originally, and he was like.

1767
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:17,399
Speaker 6: He was he was like picking up sounds on he

1768
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:19,479
left to take recorder Running Boy's bed and was picking

1769
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:21,479
up sounds. And when he was back, he actually he

1770
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:23,079
split up with his wife and he moved into it.

1771
01:31:23,159 --> 01:31:25,600
He moved into his own home and there was like

1772
01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:28,560
a black handprint on a new paint because they when

1773
01:31:28,760 --> 01:31:30,199
before he moved in, they had the whole place re

1774
01:31:30,279 --> 01:31:32,880
decorated and painted. There was like a black handprint on there.

1775
01:31:33,479 --> 01:31:35,600
And I said, Gareth, you washed it off yet? And

1776
01:31:35,600 --> 01:31:38,079
he says, no, are you scared it might come back

1777
01:31:38,199 --> 01:31:41,039
if you wash it off? And he was picking up

1778
01:31:41,079 --> 01:31:43,159
more weird noises in the flat and this was just

1779
01:31:43,199 --> 01:31:44,880
like and then sadly he passed away.

1780
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:47,479
Speaker 4: I think with all of this we need to kind

1781
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:51,119
of ask is life following art? With art following life?

1782
01:31:53,279 --> 01:31:55,560
And what I mean by that is I've actually found

1783
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:57,880
the clip where there's lots of different celebrities saying that

1784
01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:00,279
they sold their sold to the devil. It's on YouTube

1785
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:04,079
is called I Sold My Soul to the Devil, Katie Perry,

1786
01:32:04,119 --> 01:32:08,960
Kanye West, Eminem, Snoop Dogg, Bob Dylan, and people can

1787
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:11,840
also if they want to search for the Shane Lynch

1788
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:16,199
one look up Shane Lynch. The music industry is satanic?

1789
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:20,520
How this is what I'm trying to say, is is

1790
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:23,880
this if the if the music industry and if Hollywood

1791
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:30,640
is pushing dark, satanic, basically low entity stuff towards the public,

1792
01:32:31,159 --> 01:32:33,840
is that making the public then more susceptible to bringing

1793
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:37,279
in and then changing their mindset? Or is it the

1794
01:32:37,319 --> 01:32:39,840
case that we have this kind of this dark mindset

1795
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:43,039
as a as a public consciousness and we're the ones

1796
01:32:43,079 --> 01:32:46,000
that are creating these these movies and the music to

1797
01:32:46,079 --> 01:32:48,720
do this? Which which is which chicken or the egg?

1798
01:32:48,960 --> 01:32:51,800
Speaker 7: And I'll tell you what I've been told that we

1799
01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:59,399
should avoid and general nastiness because apparently the third for example,

1800
01:32:59,399 --> 01:33:01,039
you want to sit down and much Good Fellas well,

1801
01:33:01,039 --> 01:33:04,119
it's it's a great movie. There is violent, it's very

1802
01:33:04,199 --> 01:33:06,119
there's a lot of cruelty and a lot of buttes.

1803
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:09,720
And what I'm told is the exposinglf to that kind

1804
01:33:09,760 --> 01:33:13,000
of material on a regular basis also makes you open

1805
01:33:13,279 --> 01:33:15,399
kind of things. And I've always been really into like

1806
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:19,399
gangster shows and Peggy Blinders, love hate things like that,

1807
01:33:19,439 --> 01:33:21,479
But the trouble is that they are just full of

1808
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:26,079
domestic abuse and murder and beatings, and so I you know,

1809
01:33:26,119 --> 01:33:29,479
I kind of swer them these days because I can

1810
01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:31,680
feel that negative, you know.

1811
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:33,640
Speaker 4: Which I think you like.

1812
01:33:34,479 --> 01:33:36,680
Speaker 6: Devilyn says something similar about this, because he says like

1813
01:33:37,319 --> 01:33:40,640
he's he talks specifically about his own particular field, which

1814
01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:43,439
is like club DJing and things like this, and he

1815
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:48,720
gives examples of various instances in which he compares like

1816
01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:55,000
music performances and concerts to religious festivals. And that's because

1817
01:33:55,239 --> 01:33:57,800
he says that the people are listening, they're all dancing,

1818
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:02,920
and they're cheering, and it's all it is. They're all

1819
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:06,720
all they're possessed emotionally and therefore spiritually by the music,

1820
01:34:06,800 --> 01:34:11,319
by the performance j and and that's yeah, and that's

1821
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:13,840
and yeah. He compares the DJ like to the priest.

1822
01:34:14,239 --> 01:34:17,159
Some of them even look like it. They they're standing

1823
01:34:17,159 --> 01:34:19,680
there like playing the music, and they're surrounded by lights

1824
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:24,760
sometimes the yeah, and they're where there's where they wear

1825
01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:27,960
strayed garments and they're surrounded by lights, and there's fireworks,

1826
01:34:28,199 --> 01:34:31,399
there's pirate technics, there's smoke, there's sometimes even smells that

1827
01:34:31,680 --> 01:34:35,159
are used. And he says that's all adding to the

1828
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:39,039
to the feeling, to the to the enormous feeling and

1829
01:34:39,079 --> 01:34:41,640
emotion that is built up within the audience, and that

1830
01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:45,359
in the self, that motion itself gives off their spiritual energy.

1831
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:48,720
And I mean you mentioned TV shows and movies Gary,

1832
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:49,960
maybe that's something similar.

1833
01:34:50,800 --> 01:34:53,319
Speaker 7: But you know what, speaking of DJs, if you're let's

1834
01:34:53,319 --> 01:34:55,199
say you're like me and you're the artist as a

1835
01:34:55,199 --> 01:34:58,319
pretty good following, a few DJs support my tracks, I

1836
01:34:58,359 --> 01:35:00,920
get press, but.

1837
01:35:00,359 --> 01:35:01,479
Speaker 6: But I'm not a DJ.

1838
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:04,680
Speaker 7: If you take a person similar to me who is

1839
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:09,039
a DJ, people like Spotify when they will take their

1840
01:35:09,159 --> 01:35:13,399
music and put it straight into the mainstream Spotify editorial

1841
01:35:13,399 --> 01:35:16,439
playlist so that they get an even bigger following. So

1842
01:35:16,520 --> 01:35:18,319
it's like, if I play the game, if I want

1843
01:35:18,359 --> 01:35:19,960
to become a DJ and I want to be the

1844
01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:23,319
religious figure and stand in front of people taking credit

1845
01:35:23,319 --> 01:35:27,840
for other people's music, then Spotify will reward. They will

1846
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:31,960
reward me in the system or being one of those figures,

1847
01:35:32,039 --> 01:35:35,079
and they will put me in their editorials, and I will,

1848
01:35:35,600 --> 01:35:37,039
you know, quadruple my.

1849
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:39,279
Speaker 2: Numbers and my stats and my fans like Overnight.

1850
01:35:40,119 --> 01:35:43,439
Speaker 6: But that's a typical satanic deal. That's a typical devil's bargain,

1851
01:35:43,479 --> 01:35:44,079
isn't it.

1852
01:35:44,079 --> 01:35:46,079
Speaker 7: It's numbers?

1853
01:35:46,079 --> 01:35:46,399
Speaker 2: You want?

1854
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:51,239
Speaker 6: What what about very powerful, emotionally powerful movie scenes? For example,

1855
01:35:51,319 --> 01:35:54,560
the opening scene in the film Rocky, the original one

1856
01:35:54,600 --> 01:35:57,840
where Sylvester Stallone's character is involved in a boxing match

1857
01:35:58,199 --> 01:36:01,079
and he's like beaten senseless by this other boxer and

1858
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:06,119
it's it's a it's very upsetting. He he's the makeup

1859
01:36:06,199 --> 01:36:08,479
is really good because he's got black eyes, his nose

1860
01:36:08,560 --> 01:36:11,479
is bleeding. And then at the end he fights back

1861
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:14,199
and then he calls out for his wife and he's

1862
01:36:14,239 --> 01:36:17,439
crying and everyone else is crying. And if you're watching

1863
01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:20,520
that again, it's and what's he standing? What the funny enough?

1864
01:36:20,520 --> 01:36:22,399
The floor of the boxing ring is an EU flag.

1865
01:36:23,079 --> 01:36:24,760
It's a look with a twelve slash. I mean, look

1866
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:25,760
at it. Do you don't believe me?

1867
01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:27,600
Speaker 2: Look at that scene? What's that?

1868
01:36:28,279 --> 01:36:29,279
Speaker 4: In Rocky is different?

1869
01:36:29,319 --> 01:36:32,479
Speaker 7: Though the intention is not bad. Also, you know, Rocky

1870
01:36:32,640 --> 01:36:36,560
is not a film about a man who wins by violence.

1871
01:36:37,359 --> 01:36:40,680
He's he's in violence just to survive. And you know

1872
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:43,920
you remember what, Yeah, he's.

1873
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:46,279
Speaker 6: It's a likable he's a likable character. Yeah, he's a

1874
01:36:46,319 --> 01:36:49,680
sort of disingenuous, kind of family loving family man who

1875
01:36:49,760 --> 01:36:51,760
loves his wife. Yeah, I see that.

1876
01:36:51,840 --> 01:36:55,479
Speaker 7: Yeah, can double of violence doesn't have bad intention?

1877
01:36:56,079 --> 01:36:57,680
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1878
01:36:57,720 --> 01:37:01,239
Speaker 6: I mean it's actually wrote an to call some of

1879
01:37:01,239 --> 01:37:03,479
them on our side, where I actually make the point

1880
01:37:03,479 --> 01:37:06,319
they're not everything in the media's control for a malevolent intent.

1881
01:37:06,840 --> 01:37:09,800
There's even positive there's even people putting out positive intentions

1882
01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:11,600
in some of their productions and some of their works,

1883
01:37:11,640 --> 01:37:16,560
their music, their films, their books, because they can do so.

1884
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:18,399
They can get away with it in terms of because

1885
01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:21,880
what they're doing is essentially allegorical. This is why it's

1886
01:37:22,079 --> 01:37:24,680
similar to my own fiction, which is allegorical.

1887
01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:29,000
Speaker 3: Right, I think we'd better lead you there for the minute.

1888
01:37:29,079 --> 01:37:33,960
Gents will take a pause of aragolical pauses that sort.

1889
01:37:35,199 --> 01:37:38,720
Will take a listen to an interview that we had

1890
01:37:39,119 --> 01:37:41,640
Andy and I we recorded a few weeks back with

1891
01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:45,800
Christian Lander, who Ben you know from the ASSP conferences.

1892
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:49,439
We met Christian at the ASSP conference at the end

1893
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:53,319
of August in twenty twenty four and he kindly spoke

1894
01:37:53,399 --> 01:37:57,079
to Andy and I about the night Crawlers and also

1895
01:37:57,439 --> 01:38:01,960
the Nottingham Sheer Roswell case, which I think you've been to, Ben,

1896
01:38:02,079 --> 01:38:03,600
and we used to clip of that in there with

1897
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:06,560
and so maybe afterwards you can tell us about your

1898
01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:11,039
experience the not In Sheerswell, so here we are with ourselves.

1899
01:38:11,119 --> 01:38:13,479
I've got to point out for those that washing on YouTube,

1900
01:38:13,880 --> 01:38:18,319
I switched my camera on my webcam to defocus the background,

1901
01:38:18,359 --> 01:38:20,239
and it all looked good in the recording, but when

1902
01:38:20,239 --> 01:38:23,439
I actually watched the recording afterwards, it seemed to defocus

1903
01:38:23,479 --> 01:38:26,000
my face as well. I can't understand how that happened,

1904
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:29,039
but obviously Skytte didn't like me on that particular occasion,

1905
01:38:29,079 --> 01:38:30,760
so apologies to that, but it's one of those things

1906
01:38:30,800 --> 01:38:33,680
I'm stuck with and AI won't be able to fix it,

1907
01:38:34,159 --> 01:38:36,199
so there we go. So anyway, take a look at

1908
01:38:36,279 --> 01:38:40,880
us chatting to Christian Lander and we'll see in a minute. Right,

1909
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:41,560
So here we are.

1910
01:38:41,600 --> 01:38:44,880
Speaker 2: Now it's Andy and I and we are interviewing Christian Lander.

1911
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:47,880
And we met Christian Land at the ASSAP conference back

1912
01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:51,680
in August. That's a seriously strange conference in Winchester and

1913
01:38:51,760 --> 01:38:56,319
Christian dealer presentation on the night Crawler. That was his

1914
01:38:56,520 --> 01:38:59,000
own research on the night Crawler, which is a series

1915
01:38:59,039 --> 01:39:02,720
of strange events and videos turning up on the Internet

1916
01:39:02,720 --> 01:39:05,880
of these weird beings, which we'll discuss in a minute.

1917
01:39:05,960 --> 01:39:10,119
But first, welcome Christian to the Paranormal peep Show. Now, Christian,

1918
01:39:10,640 --> 01:39:12,600
you've obviously got a lot of research under your belt

1919
01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:14,600
and do a lot of work for the association. And

1920
01:39:14,640 --> 01:39:17,319
I can't say it was was it called ASAPP. Yeah, ASAPS.

1921
01:39:17,359 --> 01:39:20,359
So it's the Association of the Scientific Study of Anomalist Phenomenon.

1922
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:22,359
Speaker 3: It's a bit of a mouthful, must say. That's why

1923
01:39:22,399 --> 01:39:23,760
I get the people that are in it to say it,

1924
01:39:23,760 --> 01:39:26,439
because I always trip over the words we've got. Matt

1925
01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:28,520
Arnold said last time for was it was also a

1926
01:39:28,560 --> 01:39:32,239
member of the organization. So how did you get into

1927
01:39:32,239 --> 01:39:34,880
this field of research with ASAPP and everything like that?

1928
01:39:35,239 --> 01:39:36,880
Speaker 2: Well, in terms of how I went to SUP, so

1929
01:39:36,920 --> 01:39:39,920
I joined ASAPP in twenty eleven, so I've kind of

1930
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:41,920
a long term member. Now what twenty I guess what?

1931
01:39:42,039 --> 01:39:45,239
Thirteen years? I guess. But the reason I met s APP,

1932
01:39:45,319 --> 01:39:47,479
or reason that I sought them out, and again it

1933
01:39:47,520 --> 01:39:49,359
was only through searching and I saw some of their

1934
01:39:49,359 --> 01:39:51,439
content that were putting out. At the time, I was

1935
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:54,880
very I will tell you the word critical. I was

1936
01:39:54,960 --> 01:39:57,640
kind of dubious about the methods that were being used

1937
01:39:57,680 --> 01:40:01,680
in paranormal investigations, and the ethics side really touched me

1938
01:40:02,199 --> 01:40:04,079
in regards to I was kind of go into a

1939
01:40:04,079 --> 01:40:06,920
paranormal investigation at a house by the two people I

1940
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:09,520
was there. They were doing an investigation, and I kind

1941
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:12,800
of kind of asked me to go along. And I

1942
01:40:12,840 --> 01:40:15,279
was very much aware that I was upstairs. I was

1943
01:40:15,319 --> 01:40:16,880
in like one of the bedrooms where some of the

1944
01:40:16,880 --> 01:40:20,239
phenomena was happening at a record ago. And shall we say,

1945
01:40:20,760 --> 01:40:23,880
but what I can actually hear downstairs was they kind

1946
01:40:23,880 --> 01:40:26,960
of lead investigator on another person, sort of having a

1947
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:28,880
bit of a bicker, an argument with the person whose

1948
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:32,399
house it was. And it dawned on me very quickly

1949
01:40:32,479 --> 01:40:34,520
that this person is going to say something pretentially to

1950
01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:39,399
the public, ten to found friends and family, that we

1951
01:40:39,399 --> 01:40:41,079
were not going to give them the answers that they

1952
01:40:41,159 --> 01:40:43,880
wanted to hear. They wanted to hear validation. There was

1953
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:45,399
a ghost in there, there was a demon in there.

1954
01:40:45,439 --> 01:40:49,159
Who knows what they wanted. But my two friends were saying, hey,

1955
01:40:49,239 --> 01:40:51,920
have you checked your medication? You know, are you aware

1956
01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:56,159
of things like paradolia? Very grounded perspective. She clear had

1957
01:40:56,199 --> 01:40:57,920
already been to a medium, She clearly already had a

1958
01:40:57,920 --> 01:40:59,600
mind made about what was in this house. And here's

1959
01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:02,199
me upstair, And I realized, here I am sat on

1960
01:41:02,239 --> 01:41:05,039
their daughter's bed. You know, her daughter's what's seven years old?

1961
01:41:05,239 --> 01:41:06,800
And I could just see this room and I was like,

1962
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:10,239
what is the potential that person is not happy with

1963
01:41:10,279 --> 01:41:14,199
an investigator in a house. We have no accreditation, We

1964
01:41:14,359 --> 01:41:17,720
are asking to go into people's houses. What is the

1965
01:41:17,840 --> 01:41:20,039
danger of that? And it really dawned on me at

1966
01:41:20,039 --> 01:41:22,479
that point where people who claim to be investigators are

1967
01:41:22,520 --> 01:41:24,279
doing this on a weekly basis. They're asking to go

1968
01:41:24,279 --> 01:41:26,880
into people's houses, but there are also people asking to

1969
01:41:26,920 --> 01:41:29,279
people to come to their house that I think there's

1970
01:41:29,319 --> 01:41:32,279
an inherent danger within that that people need to be

1971
01:41:32,399 --> 01:41:35,720
verified that he who vetted DBS checked. But also, you know,

1972
01:41:36,119 --> 01:41:38,399
we don't know that people who are going to go

1973
01:41:38,439 --> 01:41:41,079
and see no one's vetted them. We're doing that as

1974
01:41:41,079 --> 01:41:43,000
we go in. We have to try to trust their judgment.

1975
01:41:43,199 --> 01:41:46,039
And that kind of ethical quandary really took me out

1976
01:41:46,079 --> 01:41:48,239
of investigation and kind of stepped back for a while.

1977
01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:50,279
I did more research. I did a lot more writing,

1978
01:41:51,199 --> 01:41:54,600
just topic wise and interest wise. I kept a broad

1979
01:41:54,640 --> 01:41:58,520
network of family and friends within the paramoral community. But

1980
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:01,560
non I joined ASLAP because at that time they were

1981
01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:05,880
conducting ethical questionnaire. However, I had a should ordered already

1982
01:42:05,920 --> 01:42:09,039
written one and then actually sends it out to three

1983
01:42:09,119 --> 01:42:11,479
hundred and forty nine different panel investigation groups across the

1984
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:14,560
UK and across the United States, and I had three

1985
01:42:14,600 --> 01:42:18,039
replies and only one and them I actually filled in

1986
01:42:18,039 --> 01:42:23,399
the form And yeah, it wasn't nothing difficult or anything.

1987
01:42:23,399 --> 01:42:25,199
It was quite sensible questions I fought at the time.

1988
01:42:25,560 --> 01:42:27,079
So I can't act to myself, and I says, hey,

1989
01:42:27,119 --> 01:42:28,960
I can see you've got a conference coming off the

1990
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:31,479
bath of this time. Is it possible I can announce

1991
01:42:31,479 --> 01:42:33,439
this question now that I've got could you? And they

1992
01:42:33,479 --> 01:42:35,720
were like Dave Wood, who was the channel at the time, says, hey,

1993
01:42:35,720 --> 01:42:38,880
come along. So I got to be liel Fanthorpe and

1994
01:42:39,000 --> 01:42:43,399
various members who I guess became my peers, and I

1995
01:42:43,439 --> 01:42:45,159
was very happy with that. So that's how that's how

1996
01:42:45,199 --> 01:42:50,399
I got into the more serious side of investigations.

1997
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:51,159
Speaker 4: Out of interest, have you like, what would be the

1998
01:42:51,199 --> 01:42:56,720
worst incident of paranormal investigator paranormal investigators going into our

1999
01:42:56,720 --> 01:43:01,119
house and like the people being crazy or like it

2000
01:43:01,199 --> 01:43:03,680
or just going completely wrong, or what will be the

2001
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:05,439
worst situation you've come across.

2002
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:08,079
Speaker 2: I'm not aware that it's happened, but I can imagine

2003
01:43:08,079 --> 01:43:13,640
a scenario where a person might be schizophrenic. First might

2004
01:43:13,720 --> 01:43:16,840
have you know, personal deemers that they may fighting, they

2005
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:18,520
might be dealing with alcoholism, they might be dealing with

2006
01:43:18,800 --> 01:43:20,439
of domestic vines or whatever. In the end of in

2007
01:43:20,439 --> 01:43:23,359
the situation where they believe that there's a ghost there,

2008
01:43:23,359 --> 01:43:25,880
that they believe something, and there's you who says, actually,

2009
01:43:26,479 --> 01:43:28,800
it might not be because they're hearing voices.

2010
01:43:28,840 --> 01:43:29,359
Speaker 6: For example.

2011
01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:32,119
Speaker 2: Now I'm not aware of a particular case this happened.

2012
01:43:32,119 --> 01:43:34,479
I can't cite it for me to say so, but

2013
01:43:34,520 --> 01:43:37,319
I can imagine that that is the danger that someone

2014
01:43:37,319 --> 01:43:39,920
will put themselves in. And that person isn't happy that

2015
01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:44,239
you've said that they believe it, and then suddenly you're

2016
01:43:44,239 --> 01:43:48,000
in a potential threat situation. This person doesn't like you

2017
01:43:48,520 --> 01:43:50,479
because they've already made it, and they've already made an

2018
01:43:50,479 --> 01:43:53,920
assertion that what you believe, and they suddenly either want validation,

2019
01:43:54,079 --> 01:43:56,359
they want you to cast it out, they want you

2020
01:43:56,359 --> 01:43:57,920
to exercise the place. They want you to do an

2021
01:43:57,960 --> 01:44:03,279
investigation there, you'd have to unless your sprite of mind,

2022
01:44:03,479 --> 01:44:06,359
unless your band's quite witty and got a sensible kind

2023
01:44:06,359 --> 01:44:08,520
of a calm in approach that you give this person,

2024
01:44:08,920 --> 01:44:11,439
that situation could go south really quickly.

2025
01:44:11,479 --> 01:44:12,319
Speaker 8: I think I.

2026
01:44:13,920 --> 01:44:15,800
Speaker 2: Don't know of in a case where that has happened,

2027
01:44:16,119 --> 01:44:18,199
but you know, there's suddenly been stories where, you know,

2028
01:44:18,279 --> 01:44:20,239
people would call a pizza guy around just to beat

2029
01:44:20,279 --> 01:44:23,279
him up. You know. Here here's people saying, hey, I've

2030
01:44:23,279 --> 01:44:24,800
got a ghost at my house, and there's a lot

2031
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:27,359
of eager investigators who want to go around and investigate

2032
01:44:27,399 --> 01:44:30,319
anyone's house. There's a danger of what that could be,

2033
01:44:30,520 --> 01:44:32,319
and I'm just very conscious of that.

2034
01:44:33,039 --> 01:44:35,800
Speaker 4: Fred and Rose West could kind of like say hey,

2035
01:44:35,800 --> 01:44:38,560
do you want to come around, and could go.

2036
01:44:38,560 --> 01:44:44,359
Speaker 2: Very very much into pizza. I think I got as.

2037
01:44:42,600 --> 01:44:45,239
Speaker 4: A film similar to that out at the moment, called Heretic.

2038
01:44:45,319 --> 01:44:47,000
I went to see it. It is all right actually

2039
01:44:47,039 --> 01:44:50,000
with Hugh Grant, and it was basically two people from

2040
01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:53,119
the Mormons knock on the door saying do you want

2041
01:44:53,119 --> 01:44:55,199
a pamphlet on the Mormon So he brings them in

2042
01:44:55,239 --> 01:44:57,920
and basically kind of like terrorizes them. But yeah, I mean,

2043
01:44:57,920 --> 01:45:00,960
this could be a situation that could happen with the.

2044
01:45:01,000 --> 01:45:04,039
Speaker 2: Para handy tips for me in future, because I'm always

2045
01:45:04,039 --> 01:45:07,159
talking to religious orders on the doorstep.

2046
01:45:08,319 --> 01:45:10,479
Speaker 4: I think the diplomatic way of doing it. If I

2047
01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:13,560
was a paranormal investigator and I felt there was a threat,

2048
01:45:13,880 --> 01:45:16,399
diplomatic way would be saying like, I'm sure that you

2049
01:45:16,439 --> 01:45:20,039
feel that there's something there it warrants further investigation, investigation,

2050
01:45:20,399 --> 01:45:22,000
We have to go now, but I'm sure we can

2051
01:45:22,039 --> 01:45:25,119
come back and investigate it, and then obviously don't'll be.

2052
01:45:25,159 --> 01:45:28,119
Speaker 2: Covidd centallly a sensible way to approach it, And I

2053
01:45:28,159 --> 01:45:29,960
guess unless you're aware of it in the mind, but

2054
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:31,800
I think a lot of people are so eager they'll

2055
01:45:31,840 --> 01:45:33,720
just go along with it anyway and then find themselves

2056
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:36,800
in again, digging themselves into more danger. And I'm just

2057
01:45:36,840 --> 01:45:39,119
conscious that people aren't aware of what they might be

2058
01:45:39,159 --> 01:45:40,000
putting themselves in for.

2059
01:45:40,840 --> 01:45:43,119
Speaker 3: It's interesting, you know, talking about the ethics from that

2060
01:45:43,159 --> 01:45:45,520
kind of stuff. I mean, when I mentioned earlier about

2061
01:45:45,560 --> 01:45:48,279
the late Peter Fennick, who's just now passed away, he

2062
01:45:48,399 --> 01:45:54,199
was into researching near death experiences for the parapsychologists, and

2063
01:45:54,239 --> 01:45:56,600
he was also into psychiatry and that he's very well

2064
01:45:56,640 --> 01:45:59,560
respected in his field. But I did some work with

2065
01:45:59,680 --> 01:46:03,439
a sidecientists who worked under him doing ESP and I'd

2066
01:46:03,479 --> 01:46:06,840
feelow this whole form in like a questionnaire, are you

2067
01:46:07,000 --> 01:46:09,800
on any medication? All those sorts of things, you know. Yeah,

2068
01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:12,079
And once I ticked everything that he was happy with,

2069
01:46:12,199 --> 01:46:15,960
then it proceeded to the next stage. But yeah, I

2070
01:46:15,960 --> 01:46:18,600
felt very well protected. I'm not that I felt threatened

2071
01:46:18,600 --> 01:46:20,840
at all or anything. I was kind of intrigued by

2072
01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:22,520
the whole stuff. But because I was interested in this

2073
01:46:22,520 --> 01:46:25,199
sort of thing anyway, I was an eager person to

2074
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:28,079
go along to it. But yeah, I mean that's the

2075
01:46:28,119 --> 01:46:30,359
thing he was trying to weed out literally anyone that

2076
01:46:30,479 --> 01:46:32,520
might be under some sort of medication or have you

2077
01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:35,279
heard voices or any any weird stuff like that. And

2078
01:46:35,319 --> 01:46:38,359
obviously I jumped through all those hoops and it proceeded

2079
01:46:38,359 --> 01:46:41,359
to the next stage. But it just shows how how

2080
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:43,560
wrong it can go. Like you said, you heard the

2081
01:46:43,680 --> 01:46:46,159
argument downstairs with the couple and everything.

2082
01:46:47,840 --> 01:46:50,279
Speaker 2: I've been there on both sides of that. Actually I've

2083
01:46:50,279 --> 01:46:52,960
had accounted much like you have there or be turned

2084
01:46:53,079 --> 01:46:55,239
up and clear we weren't the only investigators who surned

2085
01:46:55,319 --> 01:46:57,319
up at that time, and whether everyone was taking the

2086
01:46:57,399 --> 01:46:59,760
number or happening at the same time, everyone in different rooms.

2087
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:01,119
That was like, what is going on.

2088
01:47:03,880 --> 01:47:06,000
Speaker 3: It's like the equipment of a Tupperware party, but a

2089
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:07,760
Spookerware party or something.

2090
01:47:07,840 --> 01:47:10,079
Speaker 2: You know, And are you aware that people do sell

2091
01:47:10,119 --> 01:47:15,159
them paranormal park and summers parties, but for ghosts? Would

2092
01:47:15,159 --> 01:47:16,119
you like to buy the sheets?

2093
01:47:16,119 --> 01:47:16,279
Speaker 8: Sir?

2094
01:47:16,439 --> 01:47:20,079
Speaker 2: You know? So getting back to your own abilm you

2095
01:47:20,079 --> 01:47:22,319
you you was interested in Star Trek? Wasn't it that

2096
01:47:22,399 --> 01:47:23,239
got you into the whole thing?

2097
01:47:23,319 --> 01:47:23,880
Speaker 6: Was that right? You mean?

2098
01:47:24,680 --> 01:47:27,319
Speaker 2: Was it Star Trek? Oh? Yes, it start Deck? Was

2099
01:47:27,319 --> 01:47:31,039
you in Star Trek? As I played a lieutenant in

2100
01:47:31,119 --> 01:47:35,439
a animated series BacT in twenty twenty two. I basically

2101
01:47:35,439 --> 01:47:38,840
played a character who eventually died. That's part of Federation one.

2102
01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:40,960
You've been down in other words, to the planet in

2103
01:47:40,960 --> 01:47:43,600
a red top? Is that what' was saying? It was

2104
01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:44,199
a pilots?

2105
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:44,720
Speaker 8: Oh?

2106
01:47:44,800 --> 01:47:47,960
Speaker 2: Okay, how did that happen?

2107
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:48,159
Speaker 6: Then?

2108
01:47:48,720 --> 01:47:48,800
Speaker 8: So?

2109
01:47:48,880 --> 01:47:52,800
Speaker 2: Actually, I guess it depends on what you know of

2110
01:47:52,840 --> 01:47:55,479
Star Trek. So there's there's what's known as Star Trek

2111
01:47:55,560 --> 01:47:58,359
the Wilderness years, which is basically after Enterprise ended, there's

2112
01:47:58,399 --> 01:48:00,479
a whole period of time, perhaps like eight years, where

2113
01:48:00,479 --> 01:48:05,039
there is no Star Trek. Basically Paramount has exhausted all

2114
01:48:05,039 --> 01:48:07,720
which storytelling capability, they've put it on the shelf for

2115
01:48:07,760 --> 01:48:11,079
a while. And in that time, a lot of the actors,

2116
01:48:11,079 --> 01:48:13,079
a lot of the filmmakers behind Star Trek are the

2117
01:48:13,319 --> 01:48:16,159
producers and so on, and she were kind of tapping

2118
01:48:16,159 --> 01:48:18,840
the audience a bit and making them, poking them to

2119
01:48:18,920 --> 01:48:21,000
do their own projects. And that's such what was born

2120
01:48:21,039 --> 01:48:23,319
out of that was Star Trek, New Voyages, Star Trek

2121
01:48:23,319 --> 01:48:27,640
Continues Hidden Fronts Here, which again ran for what seven

2122
01:48:27,720 --> 01:48:31,079
years of its own seasons, fully voiced, you know, fully

2123
01:48:31,119 --> 01:48:34,520
acted and so on, but independent. But because of them,

2124
01:48:34,920 --> 01:48:36,960
a lot of them had guest stars who were actually

2125
01:48:37,000 --> 01:48:38,600
from the shows would come in, like George d. Co

2126
01:48:38,720 --> 01:48:41,920
would come in, and I'm sure Horror would come in

2127
01:48:41,960 --> 01:48:44,319
to vok you know, check off and someone. So you

2128
01:48:44,359 --> 01:48:47,399
had original Star Trek characters played by the original actors

2129
01:48:47,399 --> 01:48:50,439
coming into fan films basically to make it cannon, and

2130
01:48:50,439 --> 01:48:53,960
that such sort of paramount allows that to happen because

2131
01:48:53,960 --> 01:48:56,640
they weren't doing anything so Hidden Frontier was the kind

2132
01:48:56,640 --> 01:48:59,880
of main one at that time, and that had an

2133
01:49:00,319 --> 01:49:04,319
spin offs itself that were really successful. And basically it

2134
01:49:04,359 --> 01:49:07,359
was the ten year anniversary of that show ending that

2135
01:49:07,439 --> 01:49:11,199
I basically I auditioned for a part and I got

2136
01:49:11,239 --> 01:49:14,079
to start in a role against so quite interesting alumni,

2137
01:49:14,159 --> 01:49:15,600
so I was very happy.

2138
01:49:15,880 --> 01:49:16,199
Speaker 8: Wow.

2139
01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:18,600
Speaker 2: So, so you had did a voice over and it

2140
01:49:18,640 --> 01:49:21,319
was an animation? Was it? It was? Yes, how it

2141
01:49:21,359 --> 01:49:22,840
was how it was pitched to me it was going

2142
01:49:22,920 --> 01:49:25,279
to be an animated web comic. It kind of clicked

2143
01:49:25,319 --> 01:49:29,880
through multiple choice where people would obviously you would hear

2144
01:49:29,920 --> 01:49:31,960
like the original voice actors as it were, or an

2145
01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:34,760
animation sequence and happened. Then you make a different choice.

2146
01:49:35,439 --> 01:49:37,279
But no, actually, what they decided to do in twenty

2147
01:49:37,319 --> 01:49:39,880
twenty two was actually released the whole thing as a

2148
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:42,199
as a as a film. And so to do that,

2149
01:49:42,760 --> 01:49:44,399
So was it your own accent or did you have

2150
01:49:44,439 --> 01:49:46,560
to put on an accent or something? No, so actually,

2151
01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:49,000
and there's a couple of points where though I remember,

2152
01:49:49,000 --> 01:49:51,880
there were certain words that sound different in like American accents.

2153
01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:54,840
So I actually recorded both when I sent in my

2154
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:57,399
tape basically my audition, and they were so happy that

2155
01:49:57,479 --> 01:50:00,079
I'd done that. That said they, oh, okay, that you

2156
01:50:00,119 --> 01:50:02,760
clearly were aware of filmmaking process, and I'm quite happy

2157
01:50:02,760 --> 01:50:04,920
with our recordings. And there that was actually what got

2158
01:50:04,960 --> 01:50:05,399
me the role.

2159
01:50:05,800 --> 01:50:08,520
Speaker 4: Ah wow, did they go for English or American accent.

2160
01:50:08,920 --> 01:50:10,479
Speaker 2: In this show, they actually went with the English one.

2161
01:50:10,520 --> 01:50:10,720
Speaker 6: Sir.

2162
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:14,359
Speaker 2: That's interesting, the old Jean Loup Piccard approach and everyone

2163
01:50:14,399 --> 01:50:16,239
stood John Lup Piccard. He was French, but he spoke

2164
01:50:16,279 --> 01:50:17,720
with a clear Shakespearean accent.

2165
01:50:17,800 --> 01:50:18,840
Speaker 6: It's really very weird.

2166
01:50:19,199 --> 01:50:23,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, So moving on from Star Trek, we were talking

2167
01:50:23,319 --> 01:50:25,840
about in the Night Crawler, which you were kind of

2168
01:50:26,000 --> 01:50:29,239
done a lot of research and used this explaining off

2169
01:50:29,279 --> 01:50:32,039
our recording basically how you got involved in that. Can

2170
01:50:32,079 --> 01:50:34,680
you just recap slightly what the night Crawler is for

2171
01:50:34,720 --> 01:50:36,720
our audience and how you got involved with the Night

2172
01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:38,359
Crawler research that you've done.

2173
01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:41,520
Speaker 2: Okay, so how I got involved with it is I

2174
01:50:41,560 --> 01:50:44,920
think it was twenty nineteen. I was asked by ASSEP

2175
01:50:45,439 --> 01:50:49,039
via their media correspondent, how we've been into a company

2176
01:50:49,079 --> 01:50:51,720
from Los Angeles has been in such with us and

2177
01:50:51,760 --> 01:50:54,199
they want to know if you would come basically on

2178
01:50:54,279 --> 01:50:57,760
TV show talk to them about this new Nightcrawl video

2179
01:50:57,760 --> 01:50:59,960
that's come out, that's been recorded and it appears to

2180
01:51:00,039 --> 01:51:01,399
a trucker at the side of the road and there

2181
01:51:01,439 --> 01:51:03,520
was a they hit sorry, they'd seen something at the

2182
01:51:03,520 --> 01:51:05,760
side of the road and there was a case where

2183
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:08,439
it appears to be as a boy in a street

2184
01:51:08,800 --> 01:51:11,159
and then this white pair of trousers runs out as

2185
01:51:11,239 --> 01:51:13,680
signed street and it kind of runs along the path. Actually,

2186
01:51:13,680 --> 01:51:16,760
it's quite good actually, and they wanted me to come

2187
01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:18,359
in and give my opinions on it and if I

2188
01:51:18,399 --> 01:51:23,359
believed it was a ghost. So I was quite fascinated

2189
01:51:23,399 --> 01:51:25,319
by this. But it was interesting that it had actually

2190
01:51:25,359 --> 01:51:28,000
come to me because many many years ago I was

2191
01:51:28,039 --> 01:51:29,640
a member, and I guess I still. I'm a member

2192
01:51:29,640 --> 01:51:31,960
of a website called Above top Secret, which is kind

2193
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:36,079
of a you could say it leans conspiratorial. It kind

2194
01:51:36,119 --> 01:51:39,800
of leans into the kind of well considered the alternative topics.

2195
01:51:40,359 --> 01:51:42,760
It's very popular that come before social media took off,

2196
01:51:44,560 --> 01:51:46,760
but it leans very skeptically. So basically there's a kind

2197
01:51:46,760 --> 01:51:49,560
of hive mind of people who quite clickedly will go no, no,

2198
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:51,600
this is this is the earth, This doesn't make any sense,

2199
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:54,920
let's break this down. So and it's very popular within

2200
01:51:54,960 --> 01:51:58,279
the the eufology community. And so back in two thousand

2201
01:51:58,319 --> 01:52:00,000
and seven, in two thousand and eight, a member there

2202
01:52:01,039 --> 01:52:04,800
called Jose Cominio so he come ucho sorry. He had

2203
01:52:04,880 --> 01:52:08,520
posted video there of a video that had been sent

2204
01:52:08,560 --> 01:52:11,359
to him. He had been asked to go to a

2205
01:52:11,479 --> 01:52:16,039
film studio where a video footage of an alleged cryptid,

2206
01:52:16,039 --> 01:52:18,960
alleged alien basically had been seen at a person's garden.

2207
01:52:19,079 --> 01:52:21,640
A person was called Jose, And when he went to

2208
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:24,600
this film studio, he saw saw this film and they

2209
01:52:24,600 --> 01:52:26,840
wanted him to say, Hey, this is an alien, this

2210
01:52:26,880 --> 01:52:29,239
is an extraterrestrial. We need to confirm that this is

2211
01:52:29,279 --> 01:52:33,119
the case. But because it was quite skeptical in regards

2212
01:52:33,119 --> 01:52:35,000
to his view of this, he was like, no, I'm

2213
01:52:35,039 --> 01:52:36,840
not going to say one way or the other. I'd

2214
01:52:36,880 --> 01:52:39,680
like to actually interview the person whose video this is.

2215
01:52:40,159 --> 01:52:44,439
And he got some footage of that time. He spoke

2216
01:52:44,479 --> 01:52:48,840
to Jose and he was very scared. He's very very upset.

2217
01:52:48,880 --> 01:52:51,560
He were worried about what this was. And then in

2218
01:52:51,600 --> 01:52:54,239
the March or February of two thousand and eight, we

2219
01:52:54,319 --> 01:52:57,600
shown at the MUFON conference. And at that conference, you know,

2220
01:52:57,640 --> 01:53:00,439
it really was who's who at the time. Ji Lea

2221
01:53:00,600 --> 01:53:03,760
was there, bred Sparks, you know, Chuck Modeling, George Nepp,

2222
01:53:04,760 --> 01:53:06,840
George Nori was there. So this this got a lot

2223
01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:10,760
of traction by the entire euthology community. Of what this being,

2224
01:53:10,760 --> 01:53:13,039
this creature was walking across someone's guarden, because of course

2225
01:53:13,039 --> 01:53:15,239
no one had never seen anything like this. But on

2226
01:53:15,279 --> 01:53:17,000
the loof top secret it was, they were kind of

2227
01:53:17,079 --> 01:53:20,239
like talking, wait, this isn't real. We we think this

2228
01:53:20,359 --> 01:53:23,399
has been done and constructed like this. So I was

2229
01:53:23,399 --> 01:53:25,119
able to go back to those posts and see how

2230
01:53:25,119 --> 01:53:27,479
they thought it was constructed. So what I did is

2231
01:53:27,520 --> 01:53:31,079
I made a nightcrawl. I made it and I went

2232
01:53:31,079 --> 01:53:34,439
out to the woods. I used the similar kind of fanbrick.

2233
01:53:34,760 --> 01:53:37,199
I went through some trilid error with its kind of

2234
01:53:37,279 --> 01:53:39,520
legs and its stepping motions, and I was able to

2235
01:53:39,520 --> 01:53:43,319
actually work out and create a fasimilar of that. The

2236
01:53:43,439 --> 01:53:47,439
nightcrawl is really interesting because what I was seeing the

2237
01:53:47,520 --> 01:53:50,199
last year or so was a lot of traction, particularly

2238
01:53:50,279 --> 01:53:54,319
on like the short form of social media like TikTok

2239
01:53:54,359 --> 01:53:57,000
YouTube shorts videos that were literally getting the hundreds of

2240
01:53:57,000 --> 01:54:00,760
millions of views, kind of cycling a lot of this

2241
01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:03,039
footage back from two thousand and seven, two thousand and eight.

2242
01:54:03,399 --> 01:54:05,680
There's one in twenty eleven which is quite good, actually

2243
01:54:05,760 --> 01:54:10,239
appears to be. It's from Umissibity Park where it's a

2244
01:54:10,279 --> 01:54:13,279
kind of tilted CCTV camera footage and it appears to

2245
01:54:13,319 --> 01:54:16,720
be crossing two bushes basically, but the footage is a

2246
01:54:16,800 --> 01:54:18,880
really interesting It appears to step with a kind of

2247
01:54:18,920 --> 01:54:22,960
weight mix foot as it moves across. And then there

2248
01:54:23,039 --> 01:54:25,600
was some more video footage as it came up twenty

2249
01:54:25,600 --> 01:54:28,119
sixteen in Poland there was another one that was quite poor.

2250
01:54:29,239 --> 01:54:32,520
Then twenty eighteen when I was first asked to speak

2251
01:54:33,079 --> 01:54:36,239
on behalf of Assam and I was like, you know, I

2252
01:54:36,239 --> 01:54:38,439
need to retap into this and you know, make the

2253
01:54:38,520 --> 01:54:40,520
video and show how he was done, because I was

2254
01:54:41,079 --> 01:54:42,479
I would. I'm not going to say I was jealoused

2255
01:54:42,479 --> 01:54:45,600
about how popular these videos were getting, but I was like,

2256
01:54:45,680 --> 01:54:48,439
someone needs to actually put this together in a constructive

2257
01:54:48,479 --> 01:54:50,680
way that makes sense that anyone can view and go, oh,

2258
01:54:50,760 --> 01:54:53,199
we can see the archive, We can see the kind

2259
01:54:53,199 --> 01:54:55,680
of verifiable data from the first video to the second

2260
01:54:56,119 --> 01:54:58,680
and how it became popular, why it became pop, and

2261
01:54:58,720 --> 01:55:01,720
actually how it was done. So it was kind of

2262
01:55:01,760 --> 01:55:03,960
a scene of a point of reference and they can

2263
01:55:04,079 --> 01:55:05,960
kind of be that at that point, a dumb and

2264
01:55:06,000 --> 01:55:08,439
dusted topic that anyone can then use as a reference video.

2265
01:55:08,800 --> 01:55:10,560
That was kind of my feeling when I went into

2266
01:55:10,560 --> 01:55:11,920
creating the Secret of the Nightcrawler.

2267
01:55:12,279 --> 01:55:15,520
Speaker 4: So when you created it, you created like a literal, physical,

2268
01:55:15,640 --> 01:55:20,520
robotic machine with fabric over it. And I could and

2269
01:55:20,600 --> 01:55:22,479
did you add any kind of effects to it, like

2270
01:55:22,560 --> 01:55:24,039
pixelation or no?

2271
01:55:23,800 --> 01:55:27,319
Speaker 2: No, no. I physically made this, yeah, a real so

2272
01:55:27,439 --> 01:55:32,720
it's it's it's made remarkably using a pair of silk trousers,

2273
01:55:32,760 --> 01:55:36,760
you know, attached to a co hangar, you know. And

2274
01:55:36,920 --> 01:55:40,039
how it was done. I was so surprised at how

2275
01:55:40,039 --> 01:55:44,000
easy it was done that I was just in my kitchen.

2276
01:55:44,359 --> 01:55:47,079
I was like, I literally got a clothesline because I thought,

2277
01:55:47,479 --> 01:55:49,640
how was clearly done. Is it's a clothesline. It's slightly

2278
01:55:49,640 --> 01:55:51,880
out of camera shot and they're just pulling it along

2279
01:55:52,000 --> 01:55:53,760
on a kind of loop. And I was like, let

2280
01:55:53,800 --> 01:55:56,960
me just recreate this. I strung the washing line around

2281
01:55:56,960 --> 01:56:01,000
a covered handle in my kitchen. I put this on,

2282
01:56:01,680 --> 01:56:05,560
put the coat hanger on on this washing line. I

2283
01:56:05,600 --> 01:56:07,000
picked it up, and then all of a sudden, one

2284
01:56:07,039 --> 01:56:10,960
of the legs moved, and I was like, wow. I

2285
01:56:11,000 --> 01:56:13,079
thought I would have to kind of puppet the legs

2286
01:56:13,079 --> 01:56:14,880
like a marionette. I didn't need to do with that

2287
01:56:14,920 --> 01:56:16,439
at all. All I had to do. Literally was just

2288
01:56:16,439 --> 01:56:20,239
shimmy left and right with the washing line, and it's

2289
01:56:20,880 --> 01:56:24,760
feats move absolutely perfectly. It literally moves like a the

2290
01:56:24,920 --> 01:56:27,880
neat Nightcrawler does in all those videos. It was actually

2291
01:56:28,319 --> 01:56:30,239
it was so good. I was liked this. This is

2292
01:56:30,279 --> 01:56:33,079
exactly how it was done, No fancy gadgetry needed. So

2293
01:56:33,159 --> 01:56:35,000
over the course of a couple of days, I went

2294
01:56:35,039 --> 01:56:37,720
to my local park at midnight. I strapped it a

2295
01:56:37,760 --> 01:56:40,720
round of goal and got it to walk. The problem

2296
01:56:40,760 --> 01:56:43,079
was I got there and my not vision camera didn't

2297
01:56:43,199 --> 01:56:45,880
work all the things.

2298
01:56:45,920 --> 01:56:48,279
Speaker 4: I was like, no, so that I be a bit

2299
01:56:48,279 --> 01:56:51,199
trippy for any dog walkers at a distance, like the

2300
01:56:51,239 --> 01:56:53,560
hell is going.

2301
01:56:52,800 --> 01:56:54,800
Speaker 2: It's the best dog in park out? I bet they

2302
01:56:54,800 --> 01:56:58,359
though it was because this was like midnight and I

2303
01:56:58,399 --> 01:57:01,319
wanted to deliberately stay away from everyone. No busters nearby,

2304
01:57:01,399 --> 01:57:04,800
no cars, and no there was these two walkers who

2305
01:57:04,800 --> 01:57:06,920
walk past. I know that you just see the eyes.

2306
01:57:06,960 --> 01:57:09,600
It's transfixed on what I was doing. Here's me with

2307
01:57:09,600 --> 01:57:13,000
this pair of trousers attached to a a go walking

2308
01:57:13,039 --> 01:57:15,720
this thing along with with a lady on with I've

2309
01:57:15,720 --> 01:57:17,640
got an a camera set up and I've got a

2310
01:57:17,720 --> 01:57:20,640
high vers vest on. So I look sort of officials,

2311
01:57:22,079 --> 01:57:23,680
and you can see the looking down and me going

2312
01:57:23,680 --> 01:57:24,279
what are you doing?

2313
01:57:24,319 --> 01:57:24,439
Speaker 8: There?

2314
01:57:24,439 --> 01:57:25,359
Speaker 2: And there? What do you do?

2315
01:57:25,359 --> 01:57:27,720
Speaker 4: You can get away with anything in a high vis vest,

2316
01:57:27,760 --> 01:57:30,600
isn't it good? The best way to kind of like

2317
01:57:30,720 --> 01:57:32,319
do a bank world is to like wear a high

2318
01:57:32,399 --> 01:57:37,600
visvest and make it look Yeah, where can people if

2319
01:57:37,600 --> 01:57:41,039
people want to see the original video and then your video,

2320
01:57:41,199 --> 01:57:42,920
where can you direct.

2321
01:57:42,600 --> 01:57:47,079
Speaker 2: And take the original video is available online? Where do

2322
01:57:47,159 --> 01:57:49,840
I have a link to that? I believe I do

2323
01:57:50,000 --> 01:57:52,880
so in my video, I certainly believed beneath it, I've

2324
01:57:52,880 --> 01:57:55,760
got all the sources within that, and I on my website,

2325
01:57:55,760 --> 01:57:58,680
I've got a video, I've got a bog called behind

2326
01:57:58,680 --> 01:57:59,960
the Secret of the Night crowl and I've got all

2327
01:58:00,119 --> 01:58:02,840
links that are in there to your website quickly.

2328
01:58:03,079 --> 01:58:03,239
Speaker 5: Yes.

2329
01:58:03,279 --> 01:58:05,880
Speaker 2: So my website literally is Christian Lander dot com. So

2330
01:58:06,039 --> 01:58:10,319
I own my own domain. So it's really interesting. Most

2331
01:58:10,319 --> 01:58:12,520
of the video footage that you will find a line

2332
01:58:12,560 --> 01:58:16,960
of the night Crawler actually is a derivative footage of

2333
01:58:17,319 --> 01:58:21,199
a basically a handcam, but is at that move on conference.

2334
01:58:21,319 --> 01:58:25,520
So once someone basically had a web handcam, there was

2335
01:58:25,560 --> 01:58:30,520
recording the video that Victor Camacho was showing there as

2336
01:58:30,520 --> 01:58:33,199
a documentary, So basically a law. The most of the

2337
01:58:33,239 --> 01:58:36,239
footage you'll see off nightcrawlers online are actually all that

2338
01:58:36,319 --> 01:58:40,680
particular handcam footage recording that video that's our country. Isn't

2339
01:58:40,680 --> 01:58:44,680
that bad? Actually, it's worth checking tracking down. So if

2340
01:58:44,720 --> 01:58:47,199
you go on YouTube, you'll find as a particular a

2341
01:58:47,319 --> 01:58:52,840
YouTube person called at rogue Alien. He's a US war veteran.

2342
01:58:52,880 --> 01:58:56,119
Actually he's a former Air Force pilot, so he's the

2343
01:58:56,119 --> 01:59:00,000
person who recorded that with a handcam YouTube dot com

2344
01:59:00,840 --> 01:59:04,000
at Rogualien. And again he's done quite a few videos

2345
01:59:04,039 --> 01:59:05,840
over time, but it's certainly the one that's got the

2346
01:59:05,840 --> 01:59:08,399
most footage, just got like seventy four thousand views or whatever,

2347
01:59:08,640 --> 01:59:12,600
so it's worth looking at that one. So there was

2348
01:59:12,680 --> 01:59:15,279
one that I saw in your presentation where you showed

2349
01:59:15,319 --> 01:59:18,880
the various clips, and I think it was like two

2350
01:59:19,039 --> 01:59:22,399
night crawlers coming down the street are like a papa

2351
01:59:22,520 --> 01:59:26,359
and a kid version the night Brawler, And I was thinking, well,

2352
01:59:26,640 --> 01:59:30,439
if this is your Pulley system pull in, that's going

2353
01:59:30,520 --> 01:59:32,960
to be complicated doing two of them, isn't it. Really?

2354
01:59:33,279 --> 01:59:35,920
So on a particular video you're talking about, it's right,

2355
01:59:36,119 --> 01:59:38,600
it's basically it's there's a bush either side of it.

2356
01:59:38,640 --> 01:59:40,920
There's there's like a tree or some kind of shrubbery

2357
01:59:40,920 --> 01:59:43,319
either side, and the camera is kind of tilted sort

2358
01:59:43,319 --> 01:59:47,640
of like twenty degrees to the left. So basically nine,

2359
01:59:47,920 --> 01:59:50,399
having these bushes either side, it can actually hide anybody

2360
01:59:50,399 --> 01:59:53,159
who's there. And then the character walks one side to

2361
01:59:53,199 --> 01:59:56,199
the other, like between the trees are between the two bushes.

2362
01:59:56,359 --> 01:59:58,479
So I think, if you've got a mate there who's

2363
01:59:58,479 --> 02:00:01,319
willing to do it with you, you know, it's it's pretty

2364
02:00:01,319 --> 02:00:03,720
easy to do if there's two of you. The only

2365
02:00:03,800 --> 02:00:06,159
thing that I would say, and I'm saying this from memory,

2366
02:00:06,159 --> 02:00:08,039
I've really got a real look at the footage again,

2367
02:00:08,479 --> 02:00:12,760
is that your footage displays the pair of trouser swinging

2368
02:00:12,800 --> 02:00:15,119
back was falls as they're coming down your pulley line

2369
02:00:15,119 --> 02:00:17,920
from one tree to another or whatever it is, and

2370
02:00:19,479 --> 02:00:22,159
you the legs are flaying, aren't they? Or did you

2371
02:00:22,199 --> 02:00:23,880
wait down the feet? Did? Yes?

2372
02:00:23,960 --> 02:00:24,239
Speaker 6: Legs?

2373
02:00:24,840 --> 02:00:26,359
Speaker 2: So I know I know exactly what we're talked about here.

2374
02:00:26,399 --> 02:00:28,800
It's the problem I actually had initially. So when I

2375
02:00:28,960 --> 02:00:30,760
in my living room here and again at that field

2376
02:00:30,760 --> 02:00:34,119
where I first tried it, the legs weren't weighted, so

2377
02:00:34,199 --> 02:00:36,439
why it had actually don't know got hold of and

2378
02:00:36,640 --> 02:00:39,640
I went back to those original video footages on above

2379
02:00:39,640 --> 02:00:41,920
top secret about how they thought it was done, and

2380
02:00:41,960 --> 02:00:45,239
their suggestion was that actually was in the US you

2381
02:00:45,279 --> 02:00:48,920
have you have baseball right with the long baseballs, but

2382
02:00:49,359 --> 02:00:53,079
you actually have these half sized baseball bats basic called cambats.

2383
02:00:53,640 --> 02:00:56,800
That's what they believe was inside each of the legs

2384
02:00:56,840 --> 02:00:59,680
at the very bottom to keep it sturdy. Like, yes, Chell,

2385
02:01:00,560 --> 02:01:02,560
we don't have that here. Someone was like, what can

2386
02:01:02,600 --> 02:01:04,560
I use? And what I did use? I actually got

2387
02:01:04,600 --> 02:01:07,279
a kitchen roll tube of didn't side like a long

2388
02:01:07,279 --> 02:01:09,279
It's little about a foot long, and I was able

2389
02:01:09,319 --> 02:01:11,960
to put a hair tied at the bottom of the

2390
02:01:11,960 --> 02:01:15,199
top of the tube and then detally attached pegs to

2391
02:01:15,279 --> 02:01:18,560
it to kind of creative weight. And as I added

2392
02:01:18,600 --> 02:01:22,319
more pegs, it actually looked like it was more because

2393
02:01:22,319 --> 02:01:24,520
I filmed it in a woodland and there was a

2394
02:01:24,560 --> 02:01:26,520
lot of wild grass around. So the problem I had

2395
02:01:26,560 --> 02:01:29,720
even when filming is actually it would actually catch on

2396
02:01:29,760 --> 02:01:32,600
the grass. I had to actually find a way actually

2397
02:01:32,800 --> 02:01:35,239
making it a more heaviest way. It's actually more pegs

2398
02:01:35,279 --> 02:01:37,720
to it, and when I pulled it actually it then

2399
02:01:37,960 --> 02:01:40,840
fixed that problem. I was able to walk fine. Of course,

2400
02:01:40,880 --> 02:01:43,960
in there's original videos from the US of course, Joses

2401
02:01:44,000 --> 02:01:46,439
footage and the ones from Usimbiity Park of course that

2402
02:01:46,560 --> 02:01:49,039
they're they're shot on clearly lawns. You know, it's perfect.

2403
02:01:49,079 --> 02:01:53,000
It looks really nice. So the original witness was alerted

2404
02:01:53,000 --> 02:01:57,199
because he heard noises outside or something and he thought,

2405
02:01:57,199 --> 02:01:59,239
what the hell's that and he came out and that's

2406
02:01:59,279 --> 02:02:02,720
when he spotted these nightcrawlers going down the street. Is

2407
02:02:02,720 --> 02:02:04,920
that right? Well, so no, it's actually it's in his

2408
02:02:04,920 --> 02:02:07,560
garden actually, so he said, I think it was. He'd

2409
02:02:07,920 --> 02:02:10,840
his dog was reacting to something in the environment. So

2410
02:02:11,000 --> 02:02:14,720
and then he went out and bought CCTV's CTV CCTV

2411
02:02:14,800 --> 02:02:17,279
camera sorry and had it in his bedroom window looking

2412
02:02:17,319 --> 02:02:19,720
out in his garden. And that's when he said that

2413
02:02:19,760 --> 02:02:22,079
he was looking at the footage and that's when he

2414
02:02:22,119 --> 02:02:24,640
got scared as this being kind of crossed the garden.

2415
02:02:25,000 --> 02:02:28,359
The very first one is really really tall and if

2416
02:02:28,439 --> 02:02:31,079
you if you only use the coat hanger, it actually

2417
02:02:31,079 --> 02:02:33,079
does create that kind of drape effect of the legs.

2418
02:02:33,479 --> 02:02:37,000
It's not very animated. On the same piece of footage,

2419
02:02:37,039 --> 02:02:40,000
it's might four minutes later, so clearly it's enough time

2420
02:02:40,079 --> 02:02:42,760
to basically go back outside, get it, take it all

2421
02:02:42,760 --> 02:02:44,960
way back to be alone of the garden, back upstairs,

2422
02:02:44,960 --> 02:02:48,560
and do it again. Think he was faking it himself,

2423
02:02:48,800 --> 02:02:51,800
I believe so yeah, okay, not so faking it, but

2424
02:02:51,840 --> 02:02:55,039
he created some interesting and the second video soorry the

2425
02:02:55,079 --> 02:02:58,319
second it's one long video, but it's two clips of it.

2426
02:02:58,520 --> 02:03:01,000
The second clip of it is clean much that it's

2427
02:03:01,039 --> 02:03:04,680
making much bigger strides. It's much clearer that it's moving

2428
02:03:04,720 --> 02:03:07,039
there left to right across the gardens, so you can

2429
02:03:07,079 --> 02:03:10,920
see the fabric moving much easier. And with my own

2430
02:03:10,960 --> 02:03:14,560
pair of trousers or my partner's pair of pajamas, it's

2431
02:03:14,680 --> 02:03:16,920
it's it kind of replicates that really effectively.

2432
02:03:17,640 --> 02:03:19,920
Speaker 4: So do you think, kind of, hand on heart, this

2433
02:03:20,119 --> 02:03:23,159
is definitely a hoax or do you think kind of

2434
02:03:23,199 --> 02:03:25,840
like you've reproduced it, but who knows it might be

2435
02:03:25,960 --> 02:03:28,520
there might be something behind its feeling.

2436
02:03:28,640 --> 02:03:32,079
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think it's necessarily encrypted. What has happened, though,

2437
02:03:32,479 --> 02:03:34,600
is the kind of crypted tourism has taken over, the

2438
02:03:34,640 --> 02:03:37,520
kind of the paranormal economy. It's now actually become like

2439
02:03:37,600 --> 02:03:40,399
Lessie is like champ. It's like Bigfoot. It's now actually

2440
02:03:40,439 --> 02:03:44,199
got you know, it's got merchandise. You know, it's it's

2441
02:03:44,840 --> 02:03:50,800
grown legs, as they say, some DEMI is now you know,

2442
02:03:50,840 --> 02:03:56,279
it's quite cute. I've seen seen if we were to

2443
02:03:56,319 --> 02:03:58,399
take it away from the community and show that it's

2444
02:03:58,479 --> 02:04:01,399
not that, Oh, what do you validate that entire market

2445
02:04:01,439 --> 02:04:05,000
that exists. No, I don't think so. But I don't

2446
02:04:05,039 --> 02:04:08,199
think it's set a being of any kind. I don't

2447
02:04:08,199 --> 02:04:11,159
think it's an alien of any kind. But what is

2448
02:04:11,199 --> 02:04:14,960
really interesting is we're actually watching live folklore evolve. You know,

2449
02:04:15,359 --> 02:04:17,159
in the very first video it was it could have

2450
02:04:17,159 --> 02:04:19,760
been an alien, and suddenly there was two and then

2451
02:04:20,079 --> 02:04:22,159
so technically it's got a charm, it's got a twin

2452
02:04:23,119 --> 02:04:25,840
and later ones. You know, it's like the story has evolved.

2453
02:04:25,880 --> 02:04:28,359
You know, it's now got eyes. You know, it's kind

2454
02:04:28,399 --> 02:04:31,399
of that the folklore of the night Crawler has evolved.

2455
02:04:31,680 --> 02:04:33,640
And I was as saying to you a few minutes ago,

2456
02:04:35,119 --> 02:04:37,399
I was asked by ASPS to put another presentation together

2457
02:04:37,439 --> 02:04:39,960
on any topic I liked. So I was looking at

2458
02:04:41,119 --> 02:04:43,159
the phenomena of Nottingham, which is where I live, and

2459
02:04:43,239 --> 02:04:46,319
I came across a story you most may well be

2460
02:04:46,359 --> 02:04:49,520
aware of. There's a place called George's Lane. It's a

2461
02:04:49,720 --> 02:04:52,119
North and Nottingham place called Calverton, and basically it's a

2462
02:04:52,159 --> 02:04:55,079
long stretch of kind of winding road that goes through

2463
02:04:55,079 --> 02:05:00,600
the countryside. And the most related phenomena there cases go

2464
02:05:00,680 --> 02:05:03,800
back to the nineteen thirties and the nineteen seventies in particular,

2465
02:05:04,600 --> 02:05:07,039
where the driver would look in the rearview mirror and

2466
02:05:07,039 --> 02:05:08,920
they'd see someone sat in the back of his car,

2467
02:05:09,199 --> 02:05:12,079
usually wearing a black robe or whatever. When I was

2468
02:05:12,079 --> 02:05:16,239
looking at these cases, I found a case from around

2469
02:05:16,319 --> 02:05:19,840
nineteen seventy four of a pair of trousers running out

2470
02:05:19,840 --> 02:05:23,279
the side of the street. Oh that rary Rae And

2471
02:05:23,399 --> 02:05:24,800
I was like, if only I'd have found that a

2472
02:05:24,840 --> 02:05:25,479
few weeks ago.

2473
02:05:25,880 --> 02:05:29,159
Speaker 3: Ah ah, it's Wallis and Gromit the wrong trousers.

2474
02:05:30,760 --> 02:05:33,960
Speaker 2: So but the other clips then, apart from the original

2475
02:05:33,960 --> 02:05:35,439
one of the night Core, there was other clips that

2476
02:05:35,479 --> 02:05:38,119
are servicing later on by other people. Do you think

2477
02:05:38,159 --> 02:05:41,159
they were like that it was literally other people or

2478
02:05:41,199 --> 02:05:44,039
the same person doing the clip. No. I think the

2479
02:05:44,119 --> 02:05:45,960
first one clue is done by the Hosely, the one

2480
02:05:45,960 --> 02:05:50,840
who lives in that particular house. The the most famous one,

2481
02:05:50,880 --> 02:05:53,920
the one that is most clearous, is from twenty eleven,

2482
02:05:54,199 --> 02:05:58,119
which is in the Yosemite National Park where there is

2483
02:05:58,600 --> 02:06:02,640
it's a guy who The story actually is really quite interesting.

2484
02:06:02,840 --> 02:06:06,119
It's CCCV of a person's house and it's kind of

2485
02:06:06,119 --> 02:06:08,720
looking at their car. The two figures happened to go

2486
02:06:08,760 --> 02:06:12,680
past the back of the car between two bushes. They

2487
02:06:12,720 --> 02:06:15,279
take that footage and they show it to a friend

2488
02:06:15,319 --> 02:06:18,479
of theirs who happens to be a YouTuber who makes

2489
02:06:18,560 --> 02:06:21,359
paranormal videos. So they showed it to him and says, hey,

2490
02:06:21,680 --> 02:06:23,680
you know, you might be really interested in this piece

2491
02:06:23,680 --> 02:06:26,439
of footage, and in that piece of footage. In his

2492
02:06:26,560 --> 02:06:29,680
description and again i'll link that to you in a second,

2493
02:06:30,600 --> 02:06:32,800
the rescripture is quite clearly he says, this looks like

2494
02:06:33,159 --> 02:06:35,960
the same kind of courage as that that was the

2495
02:06:36,079 --> 02:06:40,760
Nightcrawler in two thousand and seven, So he clearly was

2496
02:06:40,800 --> 02:06:42,800
aware of that piece of footage. And he says, hey,

2497
02:06:43,039 --> 02:06:45,159
this is what I think it is, but now it

2498
02:06:45,159 --> 02:06:48,319
appears to be two of them. So he's making those comments.

2499
02:06:48,399 --> 02:06:51,600
So I don't necessarily think he was the Hope schulis

2500
02:06:51,600 --> 02:06:53,960
they or the creator, but he clearly was the one

2501
02:06:54,000 --> 02:06:57,479
who's got the He was given the video by the

2502
02:06:57,520 --> 02:07:00,920
CCTV owners, So there is actually ach of customy should

2503
02:07:00,920 --> 02:07:04,079
we say, and that video has got like cerbently four

2504
02:07:04,119 --> 02:07:07,720
million views on YouTube or whatever. I think crazy and then

2505
02:07:07,760 --> 02:07:09,399
we better do a Nightcrawler video and y.

2506
02:07:11,560 --> 02:07:13,840
Speaker 4: One of the biggest problems is, like, I think this

2507
02:07:13,920 --> 02:07:16,840
would be less of a thing in two thousand and seven,

2508
02:07:16,880 --> 02:07:21,079
but certainly now CGI in AI is so advanced it

2509
02:07:21,199 --> 02:07:24,760
is incredibly difficult to work out even if something like

2510
02:07:24,800 --> 02:07:29,199
a cryptid did exist, what would be credible, genuine footage

2511
02:07:29,239 --> 02:07:32,199
and what would be something that AI two thousand and seven,

2512
02:07:32,239 --> 02:07:34,279
it sounds like it would be like a mechanical thing

2513
02:07:34,439 --> 02:07:36,800
that would be used as a hoax. But AI these

2514
02:07:36,880 --> 02:07:40,800
days is so good you can't you can't tell it is.

2515
02:07:41,119 --> 02:07:42,199
It's difficult.

2516
02:07:42,560 --> 02:07:44,119
Speaker 2: I know it's it was a bit of fortune you

2517
02:07:44,159 --> 02:07:46,319
three days ago, and I posted it to the asset page,

2518
02:07:46,600 --> 02:07:48,479
and it's got a bit of attraction over the course

2519
02:07:48,479 --> 02:07:50,439
of the last week, last week or so. I mean,

2520
02:07:50,399 --> 02:07:54,359
it shows what the original fortage clearly was someone on

2521
02:07:54,520 --> 02:07:56,439
the side of a boat. It's clearly out at c

2522
02:07:56,720 --> 02:07:59,640
or acid in the ocean. Sorry, and then what begins

2523
02:07:59,680 --> 02:08:01,800
to be a whale that comes next to the boat

2524
02:08:02,119 --> 02:08:04,640
and the person reaches out, and then the footage kind

2525
02:08:04,640 --> 02:08:07,359
of takes a bit of a change and basically a

2526
02:08:07,640 --> 02:08:10,880
UFO exits, the exits the water, flies with the sky

2527
02:08:10,920 --> 02:08:13,079
and flies off. And the only reason you can't tell

2528
02:08:13,159 --> 02:08:15,560
it's the other reason you cantil it's it's an AI

2529
02:08:15,640 --> 02:08:18,439
generated video at a certain point because it was original

2530
02:08:18,439 --> 02:08:21,520
footage that has then become an AI BIS of footage

2531
02:08:21,800 --> 02:08:24,880
is that the person's hand goes a really awkward angle

2532
02:08:24,960 --> 02:08:27,199
so that where where the arm is reaching out to

2533
02:08:27,239 --> 02:08:30,920
colle touched the whale effectively, which forms the basis of

2534
02:08:30,720 --> 02:08:33,960
the dome shall we say where it transposes to the

2535
02:08:34,079 --> 02:08:38,920
UFO video of the arm takes unnatural right turn that

2536
02:08:39,079 --> 02:08:42,720
wasn't there It would he be even more convincing. And

2537
02:08:42,760 --> 02:08:44,640
it's actually quite a good video for the sake.

2538
02:08:46,279 --> 02:08:48,479
Speaker 3: Well, I've noticed that I've been looking at a lot

2539
02:08:48,479 --> 02:08:50,920
of these videos coming online lately, and it's like, oh,

2540
02:08:50,960 --> 02:08:53,359
this is the best footage, and it even shows the

2541
02:08:53,359 --> 02:08:57,199
footage from different angles that various witnesses have allegedly filmed

2542
02:08:57,199 --> 02:09:00,720
it from different angles. But you know, I mean, it

2543
02:09:00,760 --> 02:09:03,800
seems to me that whoever's faking these videos has kind

2544
02:09:03,800 --> 02:09:06,560
of clearly thought all that through, saying, Okay, I need

2545
02:09:06,600 --> 02:09:08,560
to have a shot that slightly goes out of focus now,

2546
02:09:08,560 --> 02:09:10,640
and again I need to at least cover it from

2547
02:09:10,640 --> 02:09:13,399
through different angles to give the impression that it's really there.

2548
02:09:14,159 --> 02:09:17,560
So I'll just go and film my street from four

2549
02:09:17,600 --> 02:09:20,399
different corner points, and then I'll have the same uphone

2550
02:09:20,479 --> 02:09:22,640
later on. And they put it up said, well, it

2551
02:09:22,640 --> 02:09:24,640
clearly is a real UFO because it's filmed from all

2552
02:09:24,640 --> 02:09:27,000
these different angles, you know, and you can hear people

2553
02:09:27,039 --> 02:09:28,960
in the streets saying hey man or something like that,

2554
02:09:29,119 --> 02:09:31,520
even though they don't seem to be referring directly to

2555
02:09:31,520 --> 02:09:33,920
the UFO. He's got some sort of soundtrack that appears

2556
02:09:33,960 --> 02:09:36,560
to be noise and stuff in the background, but it's

2557
02:09:36,600 --> 02:09:41,399
the UFOs are looking so crystal clear. Whereas in the seventies,

2558
02:09:41,439 --> 02:09:43,479
when you've got a photograph of UVOTE, it'd always be

2559
02:09:43,520 --> 02:09:47,359
a bit grainy and fuzzy because they're normally fixed focused

2560
02:09:47,359 --> 02:09:49,680
cameras Kodak brown is and things they're trying to take

2561
02:09:49,680 --> 02:09:52,720
them with, Whereas today you can get all these telephoto

2562
02:09:52,800 --> 02:09:55,560
lenses of fast filmed photography and all sorts of things,

2563
02:09:55,920 --> 02:09:57,640
and it always looks too perfect.

2564
02:09:58,159 --> 02:09:59,800
Speaker 2: I mean, what would you think to that person? Is

2565
02:09:59,800 --> 02:10:01,239
that kind of the fair argument?

2566
02:10:01,720 --> 02:10:01,920
Speaker 8: Yeah?

2567
02:10:02,000 --> 02:10:04,000
Speaker 2: There is. There's two points I'd had to make about that.

2568
02:10:04,279 --> 02:10:07,000
So what is you make a really interesting point where

2569
02:10:07,079 --> 02:10:09,920
it's like the four cameras. People these days are really

2570
02:10:09,920 --> 02:10:13,720
smart filmmakers. Everyone now wants to actually be an influencer,

2571
02:10:13,760 --> 02:10:17,159
a viral video maker, particularly should we say the younger

2572
02:10:17,760 --> 02:10:21,039
life gen z X whatever they're called. They want to

2573
02:10:21,119 --> 02:10:23,840
become popular. And I don't blame them because some of

2574
02:10:23,840 --> 02:10:26,279
the videos fascinating. You watch some of the TikTok videos

2575
02:10:26,319 --> 02:10:29,000
or YouTube shorts. Some are smart, some are funny, some

2576
02:10:29,079 --> 02:10:31,520
are well made, and you're going, Wow, that was really cool.

2577
02:10:31,560 --> 02:10:33,720
I like that. I'm gonna keep watching this. So I

2578
02:10:33,720 --> 02:10:35,520
think the idea is that people want to become a

2579
02:10:35,600 --> 02:10:38,600
video content creator because it's so easy to do. We've

2580
02:10:38,640 --> 02:10:42,359
all got a phone, you know, the software is very good,

2581
02:10:42,439 --> 02:10:46,520
it's in the cloud. You can make phenomenal videos really easily,

2582
02:10:46,600 --> 02:10:50,119
really cheaply, because the software is available to do. So

2583
02:10:50,159 --> 02:10:53,319
the other side of it is, when you talked about

2584
02:10:53,880 --> 02:10:56,520
people a few years ago were making videos, it was

2585
02:10:56,640 --> 02:10:59,960
very difficult to tell if they were hoaxed or where

2586
02:11:00,000 --> 02:11:02,319
they we're put together. You're right, I think they It

2587
02:11:02,439 --> 02:11:05,159
was certainly much harder to do. Cameras were certainly a

2588
02:11:05,159 --> 02:11:07,199
bit more rigid. There was a kind of a lot

2589
02:11:07,199 --> 02:11:10,319
more formulaic, shall we say, But do you remember perhaps

2590
02:11:10,720 --> 02:11:13,319
early twenty tens where there was a particular viral video

2591
02:11:13,359 --> 02:11:17,439
going around where people thought there was skyquakes going on?

2592
02:11:18,039 --> 02:11:20,680
There is like these like trumpets in the skies with

2593
02:11:21,720 --> 02:11:24,159
do you remember that? So and there was lots of

2594
02:11:24,159 --> 02:11:26,239
people like they were looking up at the sky and

2595
02:11:26,319 --> 02:11:28,039
there was sky trumpets. This is at the end of

2596
02:11:28,039 --> 02:11:30,600
the world, isn't the angels coming? And and there was

2597
02:11:30,600 --> 02:11:33,439
about four particular videos that would always get shared. And

2598
02:11:34,399 --> 02:11:36,319
then there was one where this dog was reacting, Oh

2599
02:11:36,359 --> 02:11:38,000
do you hear that? Do you hear what's going on?

2600
02:11:38,239 --> 02:11:40,960
So it looks real and I think it was Hailey

2601
02:11:41,000 --> 02:11:45,079
Stevens on her blog Halley as a Ghost, And it

2602
02:11:45,199 --> 02:11:47,479
turn of is actually the same soundtrack and all these

2603
02:11:47,520 --> 02:11:50,520
different videos it says the particular there's a particular bird

2604
02:11:50,560 --> 02:11:53,079
that makes a tweet in it that happens to me

2605
02:11:53,159 --> 02:11:54,039
in all the videos.

2606
02:11:54,039 --> 02:11:56,159
Speaker 4: Oh, I say, yeah, that's the exact way of finding

2607
02:11:56,199 --> 02:11:57,079
out there.

2608
02:11:57,680 --> 02:12:00,319
Speaker 2: Everyone would think these sky trumpets were real than the

2609
02:12:01,800 --> 02:12:04,520
Ananakia coming or whatever. All the angels are here at

2610
02:12:04,520 --> 02:12:06,560
the end of the world is coming. But no, if

2611
02:12:06,560 --> 02:12:09,279
it wasn't for that pretty distinct bird that tweets him mate,

2612
02:12:09,359 --> 02:12:10,199
it wouldn't.

2613
02:12:09,800 --> 02:12:13,800
Speaker 3: Be m So what is your take on the paranor?

2614
02:12:14,239 --> 02:12:16,560
I mean, it sounds like you're a fair investigating and

2615
02:12:16,600 --> 02:12:18,600
you try and look at it from all the different angles.

2616
02:12:18,600 --> 02:12:21,520
Speaker 2: But do you actually believe in such things, for instance,

2617
02:12:21,600 --> 02:12:23,840
as ghosts or do you think is to make the

2618
02:12:23,920 --> 02:12:26,279
leave or something. But it's a good question. Actually, I

2619
02:12:26,279 --> 02:12:29,399
guess my mother experienced what she claimed to be ghosts

2620
02:12:29,439 --> 02:12:31,760
when she was a young girl, so I guess that

2621
02:12:31,840 --> 02:12:34,840
kind of that filtered into me being fascinated by those accounts.

2622
02:12:35,439 --> 02:12:37,439
I came across the readi as digest books as a kid,

2623
02:12:37,439 --> 02:12:39,720
I came across the Osborn Book of Ghosts, as we

2624
02:12:39,760 --> 02:12:42,840
all did, and I was fascinated by these accounts that

2625
02:12:42,840 --> 02:12:45,960
are out there that happened to people, and particularly when

2626
02:12:46,000 --> 02:12:48,439
you know often someone who's had an encounter and you

2627
02:12:48,479 --> 02:12:51,159
believe them because they believe that the account had happened.

2628
02:12:51,399 --> 02:12:56,239
So I found myself wanting to believe them. And over time,

2629
02:12:56,279 --> 02:12:58,680
I've had a few encounters with things that I don't

2630
02:12:59,359 --> 02:13:01,920
understand or explain, and I don't tend to share them

2631
02:13:01,960 --> 02:13:05,560
too often the ones that I do, and I kind

2632
02:13:05,560 --> 02:13:07,680
of like it from a kind of grounded perspective. What

2633
02:13:07,800 --> 02:13:10,119
did I see? And how do I know what I

2634
02:13:10,199 --> 02:13:13,720
saw was real? And what was that? Other things that

2635
02:13:13,760 --> 02:13:17,880
could have influenced me? And you know, that's kind of

2636
02:13:17,880 --> 02:13:20,760
how I would approach a conversation with someone. Have you

2637
02:13:20,840 --> 02:13:23,760
taken in all the variables? Could you consider this? Would

2638
02:13:23,840 --> 02:13:25,920
this have been a possibility? And you can kind of

2639
02:13:26,000 --> 02:13:28,119
they go, oh, yeah, maybe that's got into it. I

2640
02:13:28,119 --> 02:13:30,760
didn't think of it that way. That's how looked at

2641
02:13:30,760 --> 02:13:36,199
some of my own encounters. Should we say? And I

2642
02:13:36,239 --> 02:13:38,439
think it's an interesting way to take you. But do

2643
02:13:38,520 --> 02:13:41,199
I believe there are ghosts out there? I personally think

2644
02:13:42,600 --> 02:13:44,800
we're not necessarily looking at ghosts of the dead. I

2645
02:13:44,800 --> 02:13:46,560
think somehow we look at it some kind of time

2646
02:13:46,560 --> 02:13:49,199
a normally that might be happening. I think we're looking

2647
02:13:49,199 --> 02:13:54,079
at some kind of almost natural phenomena that appears to

2648
02:13:54,079 --> 02:13:57,000
be moving from our environment, and somehow there's an interaction

2649
02:13:57,079 --> 02:14:00,760
between our mind the environment that perhaps whether it be

2650
02:14:00,800 --> 02:14:04,720
temperature or electromagnetic, anomally, and people when we talk about

2651
02:14:04,880 --> 02:14:10,520
ghost phenomena, we're talking about UFOs, beings, portals. I think

2652
02:14:10,560 --> 02:14:13,560
we're also we're using too many words for what potentially

2653
02:14:13,680 --> 02:14:16,079
might be the same phenomena happening that might well be

2654
02:14:16,119 --> 02:14:19,600
a natural phenomena occurring in our environment. For what that is,

2655
02:14:19,600 --> 02:14:22,319
I don't know now.

2656
02:14:22,399 --> 02:14:24,800
Speaker 3: That reminds me of the One of my favorite ghost

2657
02:14:24,800 --> 02:14:28,239
stories is the guy that was the plumber in York,

2658
02:14:28,279 --> 02:14:30,119
and I said it a number of times on our channel,

2659
02:14:30,159 --> 02:14:32,159
and I've written about it. And that was a guy

2660
02:14:32,199 --> 02:14:35,479
called Harry Martindale who in nineteen fifty three was an

2661
02:14:35,520 --> 02:14:38,000
apprentice plumber, is like sixteen or seventing years old at

2662
02:14:38,000 --> 02:14:41,079
the time, his first other job, and it was an

2663
02:14:41,079 --> 02:14:47,000
English heritage kind of commission to basically renovate this Chancellor's house,

2664
02:14:47,039 --> 02:14:49,479
I think in York. And he was tasked with going

2665
02:14:49,520 --> 02:14:53,000
down into the basement and drilling holes basically for some

2666
02:14:53,039 --> 02:14:55,920
pipes for central heat to be installed. And he put

2667
02:14:56,000 --> 02:14:58,720
his ladder in a trench that he found in the basement,

2668
02:14:58,880 --> 02:15:01,840
not knowing that a few few months earlier archaeologists had

2669
02:15:01,920 --> 02:15:06,039
dug this trench themselves and found a Roman road below

2670
02:15:06,079 --> 02:15:08,600
this chancellor's house, which was like from the seventeen hundreds

2671
02:15:08,680 --> 02:15:11,199
or something, so that it had a history history be

2672
02:15:11,479 --> 02:15:14,359
Leath House, and he didn't know that, of course, so

2673
02:15:14,399 --> 02:15:15,880
he put his He thought it was a great place

2674
02:15:15,920 --> 02:15:17,720
to wedges ladder and secure it. And he went up

2675
02:15:17,720 --> 02:15:20,439
his ladder and spent about four hours drilling away these holes.

2676
02:15:20,840 --> 02:15:22,520
And after a while he heard the sound of a

2677
02:15:22,520 --> 02:15:25,119
trumpet or a horn lovely enough, and he thought, what

2678
02:15:25,199 --> 02:15:26,479
the bloody hell's out and he said it was just

2679
02:15:26,479 --> 02:15:27,800
one note, and he thought, that's a bit of an

2680
02:15:27,840 --> 02:15:31,000
awful song on the radio that someone's playing. So he

2681
02:15:31,039 --> 02:15:34,239
could hear something which is interesting, And eventually it got

2682
02:15:34,239 --> 02:15:36,479
louder and louder and louder, and before you knew it,

2683
02:15:36,640 --> 02:15:40,439
he suddenly looked down and he said a Roman soldier

2684
02:15:40,680 --> 02:15:43,159
appeared below him, because he was about eight or nine

2685
02:15:43,199 --> 02:15:45,319
feet up on the ladder, and it came through on

2686
02:15:45,359 --> 02:15:49,960
a horse, and followed by about another ten Roman soldiers,

2687
02:15:50,359 --> 02:15:52,520
and the very last room soldier to come through was

2688
02:15:52,560 --> 02:15:55,000
the guy blown a great big horn, and they appeared

2689
02:15:55,039 --> 02:15:57,159
to be walking on the Roman road. But he was

2690
02:15:57,159 --> 02:15:59,800
so scared by his experience that he fell over off

2691
02:15:59,840 --> 02:16:03,039
his ladder and he hid into the corner of the basement,

2692
02:16:03,279 --> 02:16:05,319
hoping that he would be seen by them. He said

2693
02:16:05,319 --> 02:16:09,079
they was as solid as anything, except he said, their

2694
02:16:09,159 --> 02:16:11,840
legs disappeared. But when they approached and came through to

2695
02:16:11,880 --> 02:16:15,119
the Roman road section which had been excavated, their full

2696
02:16:15,159 --> 02:16:18,960
legs appeared, which is interesting. And they appeared not to

2697
02:16:19,239 --> 02:16:21,239
notice him. They just carried on with their task of

2698
02:16:21,239 --> 02:16:23,760
what they're doing. He said he could even hear them talk.

2699
02:16:24,239 --> 02:16:27,319
And he said they could see them unshaven. They weren't

2700
02:16:27,680 --> 02:16:31,439
like pristine condition, and they were covered in mud splatters

2701
02:16:31,560 --> 02:16:33,639
and things like that. Now this was in like November,

2702
02:16:33,680 --> 02:16:36,559
I think of nineteen fifty three, and the Romans were

2703
02:16:36,600 --> 02:16:39,000
covered in mud splatters. And what you talk about, is

2704
02:16:39,040 --> 02:16:42,600
it some sort of time anomaly, I wondered, because the

2705
02:16:42,639 --> 02:16:46,799
same Romans were seen like about seven years later by

2706
02:16:46,920 --> 02:16:49,559
a lady in the house. Her dogs actually spotted them

2707
02:16:49,559 --> 02:16:51,399
first of all that, and they were barking, so it's

2708
02:16:51,600 --> 02:16:54,520
you know, independent waknesses, but they were dogs. But this

2709
02:16:54,639 --> 02:16:57,360
lady spotted them. But she was upstairs looking down into

2710
02:16:57,360 --> 02:17:00,280
the basement and saw the Romans from different anger. But

2711
02:17:00,399 --> 02:17:04,120
this time is that the Romans repeated in the same action.

2712
02:17:04,840 --> 02:17:09,000
They were asleep on the horse, like they'd all go on.

2713
02:17:09,040 --> 02:17:11,399
The horses were marching them back to their base or something,

2714
02:17:11,440 --> 02:17:13,639
and the horses knew where to go, but the Romans

2715
02:17:13,639 --> 02:17:15,879
were fast asleep, so they were doing a slightly different action.

2716
02:17:16,280 --> 02:17:19,719
And she saw them in the February of nineteen fifty

2717
02:17:20,000 --> 02:17:23,280
seven or something like that, so again it's the winter months.

2718
02:17:23,360 --> 02:17:27,040
So my kind of hypothesis on that was that they

2719
02:17:27,040 --> 02:17:31,639
were somehow peering through time to the same time period,

2720
02:17:31,840 --> 02:17:34,159
the same day or the same season if you like,

2721
02:17:34,559 --> 02:17:37,959
back to say a thousand years before, because it was

2722
02:17:38,079 --> 02:17:41,360
their winter's day a thousand years before. Hence the covered

2723
02:17:41,360 --> 02:17:43,840
in mud, the rain splatters and things like that, and

2724
02:17:43,879 --> 02:17:45,520
they were walking on that road, so they're almost like

2725
02:17:45,600 --> 02:17:48,600
grooves of record at different points in time. On one

2726
02:17:48,680 --> 02:17:51,520
and the record jumped hitter like, and he saw into

2727
02:17:51,520 --> 02:17:54,079
that period of time like the lady did, and they

2728
02:17:54,079 --> 02:17:57,399
weren't spirits of the dead, although clearly those Romans had

2729
02:17:57,479 --> 02:18:00,559
died a long long time ago. There is what they

2730
02:18:00,559 --> 02:18:02,399
call the stone tape theory. I'm sure you feel it's

2731
02:18:02,440 --> 02:18:04,639
that one where they think that it's like a recording

2732
02:18:04,719 --> 02:18:06,479
but my thing is that I don't think it was

2733
02:18:06,559 --> 02:18:10,319
recording because it's separate actions on different times. Otherwise the

2734
02:18:10,440 --> 02:18:12,200
lady who saw it like a few years later would

2735
02:18:12,200 --> 02:18:13,639
have seen exactly the same thing.

2736
02:18:14,879 --> 02:18:16,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's what.

2737
02:18:16,799 --> 02:18:22,399
Speaker 3: I consider that like a time anomaly, and they didn't

2738
02:18:22,399 --> 02:18:24,479
appear to be aware of him, so it's more like

2739
02:18:24,520 --> 02:18:27,760
a recording, if you like, or appearing through a time window.

2740
02:18:28,680 --> 02:18:30,959
And there's been cases where people from the past have

2741
02:18:31,000 --> 02:18:33,920
seen the people of the future. Irene Allen has said

2742
02:18:33,959 --> 02:18:36,920
that she was walking around her son's house. He was

2743
02:18:36,920 --> 02:18:39,239
shown her around and she went into the top floor

2744
02:18:39,680 --> 02:18:42,319
and came face to face with the maid from the

2745
02:18:42,479 --> 02:18:47,159
Victorian Times or something. The maid gasped in fright as

2746
02:18:47,200 --> 02:18:50,920
she spotted at Irene. Irene's jaw dropped at the same time,

2747
02:18:51,000 --> 02:18:53,600
and then suddenly the maid disappeared as almost they spotted

2748
02:18:53,680 --> 02:18:56,719
each other and they were intruders into each time period.

2749
02:18:56,760 --> 02:18:58,680
Speaker 2: Is a very weird thing going on, and you know,

2750
02:18:59,600 --> 02:19:02,200
so one of the projects I'm currently looking at is

2751
02:19:02,239 --> 02:19:06,920
this phenomenal nsseium shipping. One of the accounts actually mirrors

2752
02:19:06,920 --> 02:19:10,040
that encounts what you just had there exactly. So there's

2753
02:19:10,040 --> 02:19:13,959
a place in nottingum shit called Limby. Really, I would

2754
02:19:13,959 --> 02:19:15,760
call it the Village of the fourteen because every kind

2755
02:19:15,799 --> 02:19:18,639
of fourteen weird anomaly is reported to have happened in

2756
02:19:18,719 --> 02:19:22,600
this village. So I'm there with a particular lady who

2757
02:19:22,719 --> 02:19:24,680
was giving She was walking me through the encounter that

2758
02:19:24,760 --> 02:19:27,799
she had where she walked across this field from Limby

2759
02:19:27,840 --> 02:19:30,719
to Papalwick, and she says, well, I stood here, and

2760
02:19:30,760 --> 02:19:33,639
she says, I looked down here and there was three

2761
02:19:33,639 --> 02:19:36,159
men behind this bush. But they're all dressed like round

2762
02:19:36,159 --> 02:19:39,280
head soldiers. One even had a pike, but they were

2763
02:19:39,319 --> 02:19:41,079
holding it down and they were cowering down and were

2764
02:19:41,120 --> 02:19:43,799
hiding behind this bush. And as I went around to look,

2765
02:19:44,399 --> 02:19:46,440
I could see that they were focused in the field.

2766
02:19:46,879 --> 02:19:49,520
And over there, over there there was a There was

2767
02:19:49,559 --> 02:19:51,840
a man on a horseback and he had a in

2768
02:19:51,920 --> 02:19:54,479
a scabber down the side and he was looking out

2769
02:19:54,479 --> 02:19:58,000
trying to find out where these people were. But then

2770
02:19:58,040 --> 02:20:00,959
I looked down as these three soldiers and we made

2771
02:20:01,000 --> 02:20:05,280
eye contact, and he jumped and fell over. He's never

2772
02:20:05,319 --> 02:20:06,639
seen someone like me, and then all of a sudden

2773
02:20:06,719 --> 02:20:10,959
seem damished as wow, love, Wow, that's incredible, isn't it? Yeah,

2774
02:20:11,000 --> 02:20:12,440
So what was your What did you think that was

2775
02:20:12,479 --> 02:20:15,399
a time anomaly or something that normally? Yeah, there's a

2776
02:20:15,879 --> 02:20:18,040
I don't think they clearly. I don't know what them.

2777
02:20:18,280 --> 02:20:19,680
I don't know what the trigger is it. I don't

2778
02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:21,680
know what the mechanism is behind it. But I find

2779
02:20:21,680 --> 02:20:22,479
it really fascinating.

2780
02:20:22,920 --> 02:20:27,200
Speaker 3: Hmmmmm. It's interesting. Now, what's the thunderbolt incident from November

2781
02:20:27,280 --> 02:20:29,319
nineteen eighty seven that you've been associated with?

2782
02:20:29,479 --> 02:20:31,879
Speaker 2: Okay, so if you most people who've touched my name

2783
02:20:31,920 --> 02:20:34,319
would tend to find that as the kind of a

2784
02:20:34,639 --> 02:20:38,639
main story that perhaps most heges were famous, both the

2785
02:20:38,680 --> 02:20:42,319
most associated account. So in nineteen eighty seven, there is

2786
02:20:42,600 --> 02:20:45,280
an account in a town that's not too far from

2787
02:20:45,319 --> 02:20:49,159
here called something in Ashfield, though it's actually closely more Kirkby.

2788
02:20:49,319 --> 02:20:51,159
If you know what Mansfield is, it's on that road

2789
02:20:51,239 --> 02:20:56,239
is on the Age sixty in nineteen eighty seven. It

2790
02:20:56,440 --> 02:20:59,200
is November twelfth, it's one point thirty in the morning.

2791
02:20:59,680 --> 02:21:03,319
A everyone in the village, and I've spoke to many people,

2792
02:21:03,639 --> 02:21:06,479
they were all they all know about the explosion that happened.

2793
02:21:08,079 --> 02:21:11,879
Most people associated with the explosion as the the UFO

2794
02:21:12,479 --> 02:21:15,200
of money, because there was an Ashfield councilor who says, hey,

2795
02:21:15,879 --> 02:21:18,040
what we saw. It sounded like the blitz. It hit

2796
02:21:18,200 --> 02:21:22,840
multiple houses, loads of windows down a particular street. Some

2797
02:21:22,920 --> 02:21:26,159
were blown in, some were blown out. There's a metal

2798
02:21:26,239 --> 02:21:30,760
slide was melted, all the all the TV aerials along

2799
02:21:30,760 --> 02:21:34,639
this particular stretch were melted and damaged and burns. Loads

2800
02:21:34,680 --> 02:21:37,959
of trees were burns and loads of woodland. What was

2801
02:21:38,000 --> 02:21:41,520
identified was that this this craft should we say, came

2802
02:21:41,559 --> 02:21:44,079
down in a place called Thieves Wood. It then took

2803
02:21:44,120 --> 02:21:47,600
off again. Actually the definition that's always uses it bounced

2804
02:21:47,920 --> 02:21:49,959
it so it hit the ground, came up again and

2805
02:21:50,079 --> 02:21:54,440
then crashed into an area called Annesley Hollow, which actually

2806
02:21:54,440 --> 02:21:58,760
is the same ground as Honesley Hall. So how I

2807
02:21:58,840 --> 02:22:01,399
found out and make this case was through a number

2808
02:22:01,440 --> 02:22:03,479
of people who not needed they had lived that they

2809
02:22:03,479 --> 02:22:06,360
had experienced that case. It wasn't too far from me.

2810
02:22:07,639 --> 02:22:10,079
So two particular individuals who were part of that case.

2811
02:22:10,120 --> 02:22:12,719
So one was a gentleman called Alan Smith.

2812
02:22:12,799 --> 02:22:13,319
Speaker 5: He was a.

2813
02:22:15,200 --> 02:22:17,719
Speaker 2: National Express bus driver. He told me that he used

2814
02:22:17,719 --> 02:22:20,639
to drive the buses basically the coaches from Nottingham up

2815
02:22:20,639 --> 02:22:23,040
to Mansfield, up to Sheffield and so on. On a dearly

2816
02:22:23,079 --> 02:22:25,239
basis six study in the morning and he says that

2817
02:22:25,360 --> 02:22:27,920
one particular army was traveling at the A sixty and

2818
02:22:28,040 --> 02:22:30,440
he was first thing in the morning, no passages on board,

2819
02:22:31,079 --> 02:22:32,959
and right in front of him he said that there

2820
02:22:33,000 --> 02:22:36,200
was a there was a HGV a flatback lory and

2821
02:22:36,239 --> 02:22:39,079
on the back of it was something strapped down covered

2822
02:22:39,079 --> 02:22:42,360
in black tar palling. But it was flanked by police

2823
02:22:42,440 --> 02:22:47,799
and military. This particular area on this day happened. The

2824
02:22:47,840 --> 02:22:52,760
military police them and they locked down this era for

2825
02:22:52,799 --> 02:22:57,079
four days after this. So there was seven There was chinooks,

2826
02:22:57,120 --> 02:23:01,440
there was helicopter, there was ageok. Sorry, there was lynxes

2827
02:23:01,440 --> 02:23:04,120
and gazelles that came over. They were searching for debris.

2828
02:23:05,879 --> 02:23:10,239
A particular house was hit. A chimney got destroyed. I

2829
02:23:10,280 --> 02:23:12,840
speak to the people who replaced that chimney. There was

2830
02:23:12,879 --> 02:23:15,399
another house that was hit and had subsidence happened to it.

2831
02:23:15,920 --> 02:23:19,959
The building had to be demolished. In fact, the wallpaper

2832
02:23:20,000 --> 02:23:22,719
and all the bricks inside the upper floor of this

2833
02:23:22,799 --> 02:23:25,239
house were all burned on the inside. The roof got

2834
02:23:25,280 --> 02:23:29,360
covered in a silver material. The Department of Investigations Special

2835
02:23:29,399 --> 02:23:32,079
Investigations from London came up and took samples of that

2836
02:23:32,399 --> 02:23:37,399
silver metallic substance and material. Where did the visage where

2837
02:23:37,399 --> 02:23:41,319
this craft came down in Thieves Wood, there's a ninety

2838
02:23:41,600 --> 02:23:46,680
foot burn zone basically on the ground. They ripped up

2839
02:23:46,680 --> 02:23:50,799
all the ground, they covered it in clay. They reaput

2840
02:23:50,799 --> 02:23:54,239
a new soil in there. The Forestry Commission put silver

2841
02:23:54,280 --> 02:23:57,040
birch down there and these rows of trees down there

2842
02:23:57,079 --> 02:24:02,799
to replace what happened. So really interesting case because everyone

2843
02:24:02,799 --> 02:24:05,200
remembers how the streets were all locked down. I've got

2844
02:24:05,239 --> 02:24:07,559
reports from that time where all the taxis all had

2845
02:24:07,559 --> 02:24:11,000
to be redirected around the area, and so we had

2846
02:24:11,040 --> 02:24:14,559
a fasting, not a UFO case. It was kind of

2847
02:24:14,559 --> 02:24:17,280
a dismissed despite the fact that there was a lot

2848
02:24:17,280 --> 02:24:20,479
of evidence happened, that something happened, and that something came

2849
02:24:20,520 --> 02:24:23,559
down and it was replaced and it was moved. One

2850
02:24:23,559 --> 02:24:25,159
of the ladies who came to me, she said she

2851
02:24:25,239 --> 02:24:28,440
lived opposite the fire chief of that time, so the

2852
02:24:28,479 --> 02:24:31,799
fire the head fire Marshall. She lived opposite his house.

2853
02:24:31,840 --> 02:24:33,520
She was twelve years old at the time, so she

2854
02:24:33,639 --> 02:24:36,520
can remember the crash happening. She said that it's soundly

2855
02:24:36,600 --> 02:24:38,079
like lock could be happening because that was, of course,

2856
02:24:38,200 --> 02:24:39,879
that was still quite fresh in the mind of Pevenm

2857
02:24:39,879 --> 02:24:44,360
at that time. They thought a massive vehicle had come down.

2858
02:24:45,079 --> 02:24:47,360
I think I've got forty and I've got fifty four

2859
02:24:47,399 --> 02:24:50,959
accounts of people who heard the explosion. Only five people

2860
02:24:51,040 --> 02:24:53,760
saw something that night, and all five of them say

2861
02:24:53,920 --> 02:24:56,399
something completely different about what the object was in this guy.

2862
02:24:57,319 --> 02:25:01,239
As such, there's a number of reports out there, but

2863
02:25:01,239 --> 02:25:04,079
there are actually only three that I've ever been published.

2864
02:25:04,120 --> 02:25:07,120
One ended up in a Nexus magazine, one was on

2865
02:25:07,159 --> 02:25:09,399
Stephen Kreer's website, and one was in a book by

2866
02:25:09,479 --> 02:25:12,959
John King called Cosmic Top Secret, a book I've got

2867
02:25:13,000 --> 02:25:17,000
here in above Top Secret, he was talking to two

2868
02:25:17,040 --> 02:25:22,159
members of Before at the time, called Andrew Emerson and

2869
02:25:22,319 --> 02:25:27,799
Dominic Belgin, and they had been on site a week later,

2870
02:25:27,959 --> 02:25:30,600
and they made a report of that. They took photos,

2871
02:25:30,639 --> 02:25:33,159
they took reports of what they saw, the clay that

2872
02:25:33,200 --> 02:25:36,000
was underneath, and so on. So have a really fascinated,

2873
02:25:36,040 --> 02:25:40,799
really detailed case of a UFO came down. And as such,

2874
02:25:42,680 --> 02:25:45,760
I was what's fast, what's most remembered about it is

2875
02:25:45,799 --> 02:25:48,200
Actually this happened the same time as the Battle of

2876
02:25:48,200 --> 02:25:51,920
Britain was airing on Central TV as the raid happened

2877
02:25:52,000 --> 02:25:56,440
on England, so that this is what's most about this

2878
02:25:56,479 --> 02:25:58,559
particular case of the Battle of Britain. Happened all of

2879
02:25:58,600 --> 02:26:04,239
a sudden, the half starts vibrating, rumbling. But then for

2880
02:26:04,319 --> 02:26:06,200
most people in that area, they either don't want to

2881
02:26:06,200 --> 02:26:09,360
talk about it, or they the ones that do. It

2882
02:26:09,399 --> 02:26:14,120
was a UFO that happened. What the government and the

2883
02:26:14,120 --> 02:26:17,440
Met Office agree that it was a bolt from the

2884
02:26:17,479 --> 02:26:20,399
blue and they did not pay and any insurance, the

2885
02:26:20,399 --> 02:26:22,639
insurance for this area was not paid off because it

2886
02:26:22,680 --> 02:26:25,239
was an act of God, it was active weather. But

2887
02:26:26,120 --> 02:26:28,920
what actually turns out to be the case is that

2888
02:26:29,280 --> 02:26:32,079
I spoke to a lady whose partner was a Chinook

2889
02:26:32,120 --> 02:26:35,520
pilot who landed the Chinik in this field that happened there,

2890
02:26:36,319 --> 02:26:39,520
and her report of what he told her is that

2891
02:26:39,600 --> 02:26:42,280
a Harrier jump jack came down, because of course it's

2892
02:26:42,280 --> 02:26:45,079
not going we have Scramton's not too far away, and

2893
02:26:45,200 --> 02:26:47,520
the harry jump jack was developed at Rolls West Aerospace,

2894
02:26:47,559 --> 02:26:50,959
which again is literally just behind my house. And what

2895
02:26:51,120 --> 02:26:52,959
came down was a pilot that did a loop to

2896
02:26:53,000 --> 02:26:56,799
loop in a Harrier, which is not the users of

2897
02:26:56,799 --> 02:26:59,239
things to do. And he'd actually come out of his

2898
02:26:59,360 --> 02:27:04,440
loop too low. If the Sherwood Observatory, for instance, has

2899
02:27:04,520 --> 02:27:07,000
just opened this week, massive kind of big thing happening

2900
02:27:07,120 --> 02:27:11,159
up there. Because this area has the same elevation of

2901
02:27:11,239 --> 02:27:13,840
height as the ural mountains do in Russia, this place

2902
02:27:13,920 --> 02:27:17,000
is really quite high in nineteen eighty seven, it's not

2903
02:27:17,120 --> 02:27:19,319
very well built up. There's only a handful of kind

2904
02:27:19,319 --> 02:27:23,680
of scrappy kind of areas of housing. So the perception

2905
02:27:23,840 --> 02:27:26,000
is that the pilot didn't know how load he was

2906
02:27:26,000 --> 02:27:28,440
when he came out of his is loop. He then

2907
02:27:28,479 --> 02:27:30,959
pulled up, realizing that he was over a residential estate,

2908
02:27:31,319 --> 02:27:34,239
pulled up and is his burner basically is what burned

2909
02:27:34,239 --> 02:27:36,440
the back of the houses. And that report comes to

2910
02:27:36,440 --> 02:27:39,079
me from only one account from a lady called Rachel Mason,

2911
02:27:39,120 --> 02:27:41,840
who says that she lived at the end of this street.

2912
02:27:41,920 --> 02:27:44,159
She was twelve years old at the time. She heard

2913
02:27:44,280 --> 02:27:48,000
the explosion happen down the street Sanafenbad looked at the

2914
02:27:48,040 --> 02:27:50,760
window and she saw a plane come over her house.

2915
02:27:51,000 --> 02:27:54,159
The whole house robble, the whole house vibrated, and she

2916
02:27:54,239 --> 02:27:56,239
saw as she saw a plane come over, and that

2917
02:27:56,319 --> 02:27:59,280
plane came down in the woodland, took off again, you know,

2918
02:28:00,159 --> 02:28:02,799
but it's back wings. The alien on the very back

2919
02:28:03,120 --> 02:28:05,399
was damaged, and then it veered back off again and

2920
02:28:05,399 --> 02:28:08,600
then crashed in the ground. But so her view is

2921
02:28:08,680 --> 02:28:10,120
it was a plane. I know what it was. It

2922
02:28:10,120 --> 02:28:12,719
looked like the after burner of plane was an orange

2923
02:28:12,799 --> 02:28:16,319
ring that came over my house and U jimmum is

2924
02:28:16,319 --> 02:28:18,959
what she saw. But everyone else never saw that view.

2925
02:28:19,120 --> 02:28:21,639
He only saw the two buildings that were hit. And

2926
02:28:22,360 --> 02:28:24,959
of course there was a massive explosion in UFOs happened.

2927
02:28:25,559 --> 02:28:29,399
The exposure happened to be a boiler of an upstairs

2928
02:28:29,399 --> 02:28:32,360
flight of a guy called Les, and he ended up

2929
02:28:32,360 --> 02:28:35,639
on the news the following day on Central TV saying,

2930
02:28:35,639 --> 02:28:39,920
that's all a UFO hit my house. He had gone

2931
02:28:39,959 --> 02:28:42,920
it remarkably, you know, he'd gone in the into the

2932
02:28:43,000 --> 02:28:46,760
kitchen to make himself a cup of tea. And had

2933
02:28:46,799 --> 02:28:48,719
he not done that, he'd been in his living room

2934
02:28:48,959 --> 02:28:51,559
where the back boiler of his the living room, the

2935
02:28:51,639 --> 02:28:54,559
kind of the chimney breast, effectively was superheated by the

2936
02:28:54,840 --> 02:28:57,559
burner of this this plane, and it caused all the

2937
02:28:57,559 --> 02:29:00,559
bricks in that to fly out into the living room.

2938
02:29:00,559 --> 02:29:02,879
And had he not done that, and he wouldn't be

2939
02:29:02,920 --> 02:29:06,079
with us. But it's a remarkable story that goes from

2940
02:29:06,120 --> 02:29:10,239
be a UFO case it hasn't hasn't in between b

2941
02:29:10,360 --> 02:29:13,280
in the center because what happens is that three Russians

2942
02:29:13,319 --> 02:29:17,600
to put this guy's house. This is nineteen eighty seven mm.

2943
02:29:19,200 --> 02:29:21,479
So so the guy whose house was hit and kind

2944
02:29:21,479 --> 02:29:25,399
of ludged over that kind of had subsidence, all the

2945
02:29:25,440 --> 02:29:26,719
all the kind of doors in the house, all but

2946
02:29:26,959 --> 02:29:28,760
to the side. He was very angry. He's very upset.

2947
02:29:29,040 --> 02:29:30,639
He goes down to where the crash site is, where

2948
02:29:30,639 --> 02:29:33,079
all these military years and the police are. He gets

2949
02:29:33,079 --> 02:29:35,719
told to go away. In a number of times they tell him, hey,

2950
02:29:35,719 --> 02:29:37,520
if you keep doing this, we're going to basically you

2951
02:29:37,600 --> 02:29:39,440
ring you in for harassment. You're going to get arrested,

2952
02:29:39,639 --> 02:29:40,920
never going to see your family again.

2953
02:29:41,280 --> 02:29:41,479
Speaker 8: You know.

2954
02:29:41,600 --> 02:29:43,920
Speaker 2: So this was dead secret because all we know there

2955
02:29:44,000 --> 02:29:46,319
was and all of a sudden you got the Department

2956
02:29:46,319 --> 02:29:49,159
of Special Investigations of coming to this house taking these

2957
02:29:50,399 --> 02:29:53,360
taking this silver material off his roof and tell her

2958
02:29:53,360 --> 02:29:57,840
to be chaffed. And then these three Russians started up

2959
02:29:57,879 --> 02:30:01,920
three days later going what's going on here? Scat it

2960
02:30:01,959 --> 02:30:03,600
him to the point he never spoke about it again.

2961
02:30:03,600 --> 02:30:08,479
After that I managed to speak to his care because

2962
02:30:08,639 --> 02:30:11,159
he's unfortunately in a dementia care home at the present time,

2963
02:30:11,680 --> 02:30:14,239
and he's the person who was his carer who lived

2964
02:30:14,239 --> 02:30:16,520
their house with him of course, lived through that experience

2965
02:30:16,559 --> 02:30:19,479
with him on. But so it's a phenomenal story that

2966
02:30:19,559 --> 02:30:23,360
goes from one extreme to another, but it has a

2967
02:30:23,360 --> 02:30:27,719
grounded story. And the instriguing point is the government and

2968
02:30:27,760 --> 02:30:31,399
the Met Office still refuses to acknowledge the plane happening

2969
02:30:31,639 --> 02:30:34,079
because otherwise they'd still have to pay out for the insurance.

2970
02:30:34,479 --> 02:30:37,959
So the government government continued to make note that it

2971
02:30:37,959 --> 02:30:40,360
was a weather incident, that it was a UFO case,

2972
02:30:40,799 --> 02:30:42,680
so they didn't have to pay out for insurance.

2973
02:30:44,000 --> 02:30:46,040
Speaker 3: Because I was going to ask if it was an

2974
02:30:46,079 --> 02:30:49,200
air crasher, for like a Harrier jump jet, I would

2975
02:30:49,200 --> 02:30:52,799
presume AI that the pilot would eject once he's in trouble,

2976
02:30:54,120 --> 02:30:58,719
and all ejections are logged and an air crashes are logged,

2977
02:30:58,760 --> 02:31:01,840
and then there's an air crash investigation unit from Farnborough

2978
02:31:01,879 --> 02:31:03,799
or something like that would come after and look at it,

2979
02:31:04,200 --> 02:31:07,280
which you know, you're caughting off the area and you

2980
02:31:07,319 --> 02:31:10,319
wouldn't pile a load of trees up and silver birches

2981
02:31:10,360 --> 02:31:12,600
and things, and you go around trying to find all

2982
02:31:12,600 --> 02:31:15,079
the bits of the aircraft and try and think, well,

2983
02:31:15,120 --> 02:31:17,120
which bit was it that caused this to go wrong

2984
02:31:17,200 --> 02:31:20,600
or something, you know, fought the instrument panel, pilot error,

2985
02:31:21,000 --> 02:31:24,079
and they collecked it all together, and they're really lay

2986
02:31:24,079 --> 02:31:25,600
it all out in their hangar, all the.

2987
02:31:25,520 --> 02:31:27,600
Speaker 2: Bits like they did with mocker Bee or whatever. Didn't

2988
02:31:27,600 --> 02:31:31,559
they Yeah, that happened, but I guess that that did

2989
02:31:31,600 --> 02:31:34,879
happen behind closed doors. What doesn't happen anywhere because it

2990
02:31:34,879 --> 02:31:38,399
would mean they're culpable to the events to happen. So

2991
02:31:38,479 --> 02:31:40,799
this is what I think Ben's actually traveled up to

2992
02:31:40,840 --> 02:31:43,360
the air and I think, you know, to the Nottingham

2993
02:31:43,479 --> 02:31:46,520
Sheer Roswell or something you called. That's what this case is,

2994
02:31:46,520 --> 02:31:49,120
that the police the Notts Roswell. But yeah, people have

2995
02:31:49,159 --> 02:31:52,840
started peeling you back the stories and talking to people

2996
02:31:54,000 --> 02:31:56,319
finding out accounts. When Michel Mason came forward to me

2997
02:31:56,360 --> 02:31:57,879
and said, hey, you know, I saw a plane come

2998
02:31:57,920 --> 02:32:03,200
down and there was this particular lady. She said that

2999
02:32:03,280 --> 02:32:05,200
she was pregnant actually at the time, and she was

3000
02:32:05,200 --> 02:32:07,520
sound her living room floor. There was a table in

3001
02:32:07,520 --> 02:32:09,559
front of her family would pay in the game of Life,

3002
02:32:09,760 --> 02:32:12,000
and she could see out of the bay window, and

3003
02:32:12,040 --> 02:32:15,040
she says, the whole house started to vibrate, and she

3004
02:32:15,120 --> 02:32:17,120
looked and she was the only one who has the

3005
02:32:17,159 --> 02:32:19,440
perspective of looking out this bay window, and she has

3006
02:32:19,479 --> 02:32:23,559
this green triangle looked like a Christmas tree, was all

3007
02:32:23,559 --> 02:32:26,239
illuminated from the underneath. Came over the house. That was

3008
02:32:26,280 --> 02:32:28,879
rumble as it went over, and then I realized it

3009
02:32:29,000 --> 02:32:32,959
was a plane, but it was literally above the house. Wow.

3010
02:32:33,440 --> 02:32:37,120
Speaker 3: Wow, that's incredible. Whatever it is, it's an incredible thing.

3011
02:32:38,479 --> 02:32:40,959
Be interesting to see. There's any other videos out.

3012
02:32:40,840 --> 02:32:42,680
Speaker 2: There on there right?

3013
02:32:42,719 --> 02:32:44,559
Speaker 3: I think we have to draw this to a close now.

3014
02:32:44,600 --> 02:32:47,159
But as it's our Christmas edition, we'd like to find

3015
02:32:47,159 --> 02:32:50,760
out what your plans are for next year, if you've

3016
02:32:50,760 --> 02:32:53,920
got any paranormal wives or whatever, And what are your

3017
02:32:53,920 --> 02:32:54,799
plans for Christmas?

3018
02:32:55,319 --> 02:32:58,559
Speaker 2: What are my plans for Christmas? That's a very good

3019
02:32:58,600 --> 02:33:00,399
question actually, and Christmas are a guest. It is only

3020
02:33:00,440 --> 02:33:04,639
a month away. I work in the field of retail leadership,

3021
02:33:04,680 --> 02:33:07,079
as they say, so Christmas for me right now has

3022
02:33:07,079 --> 02:33:10,680
been bombarded on me since July, and I think I'm

3023
02:33:10,680 --> 02:33:13,440
going to be quite happy to have Christmas without any

3024
02:33:13,479 --> 02:33:18,520
Christmas lights. I'll not see Christmas boxes and displays set up,

3025
02:33:18,639 --> 02:33:22,120
and I'm probably going to go to my partner's family.

3026
02:33:22,159 --> 02:33:25,200
They tend to have a rather big Christmas dinner as

3027
02:33:25,200 --> 02:33:27,319
it were. I was quite good fun to have family

3028
02:33:27,319 --> 02:33:29,239
and friends over and try to get in touch with

3029
02:33:29,280 --> 02:33:32,159
the people that we don't always get to see. You know,

3030
02:33:32,239 --> 02:33:34,479
that is the best thing about this period of time,

3031
02:33:34,719 --> 02:33:36,719
whether it be you, or whether it be Honeker or

3032
02:33:36,719 --> 02:33:40,200
whatever people celebrated this time of year as well. It's

3033
02:33:40,200 --> 02:33:43,280
good to just reconnect with family, reconnect with friends, and

3034
02:33:43,280 --> 02:33:45,479
I think going forward for twenty twenty five, that is

3035
02:33:45,479 --> 02:33:47,319
the one thing I want to do. I'm very much

3036
02:33:47,319 --> 02:33:50,559
aware I've kind of not hermitized myself this year. I've

3037
02:33:50,600 --> 02:33:53,680
made a lot of contacts, more people than ever, and

3038
02:33:53,719 --> 02:33:56,760
I don't necessarily spend the time getting around to catching

3039
02:33:56,799 --> 02:33:58,399
up with everyone. And that's I think it gonna be

3040
02:33:58,399 --> 02:34:00,680
my commitment night next year twenty twenty five, is to

3041
02:34:00,680 --> 02:34:01,479
make sure I do that.

3042
02:34:02,200 --> 02:34:04,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I know, you got out in twenty twenty

3043
02:34:04,680 --> 02:34:07,360
four with a pair of trousers and a coat hanger,

3044
02:34:07,440 --> 02:34:08,360
but it's not quite the same.

3045
02:34:08,360 --> 02:34:12,200
Speaker 2: Social life really is it all right? Well, thank you

3046
02:34:12,319 --> 02:34:16,319
very much. Indeed, Christian Lander, we'll look forward to more

3047
02:34:16,360 --> 02:34:19,479
reports coming from you in the future. And will you

3048
02:34:19,559 --> 02:34:21,920
be speaking at ASSAPP in the near future. I know

3049
02:34:21,920 --> 02:34:24,319
you did a live presentation for them a few weeks back,

3050
02:34:24,360 --> 02:34:27,360
and will we be doing anything at their next conference?

3051
02:34:27,399 --> 02:34:27,799
Speaker 5: Maybe?

3052
02:34:28,159 --> 02:34:31,239
Speaker 2: Quite possibly. It all depends where the ASSEP survives its

3053
02:34:31,239 --> 02:34:36,159
current situation. Internally. I think the webinars will certainly continue,

3054
02:34:36,200 --> 02:34:38,440
I think presentation certainly will, and I think it will

3055
02:34:38,479 --> 02:34:42,159
exist in some form next year, but hopefully it's not

3056
02:34:42,200 --> 02:34:44,920
in the guys that it currently is. Oh well, let's

3057
02:34:44,920 --> 02:34:48,000
hope it molts into something more coherent and better for everyone,

3058
02:34:48,040 --> 02:34:51,600
and may the best of it continue wherever form it

3059
02:34:51,680 --> 02:34:57,399
goes on. Certainly, so that was Christian Lander. They're talking

3060
02:34:57,399 --> 02:35:00,559
to us about the night Crawlers and all. So the

3061
02:35:00,680 --> 02:35:04,719
Nottingham Sheer Roswell crash. Ben, you went up there a

3062
02:35:04,760 --> 02:35:06,479
couple of years ago, you went up there twice, and

3063
02:35:06,520 --> 02:35:10,920
you to investigate this alleged crash or something in Nottingham Shit, Yes,

3064
02:35:11,040 --> 02:35:11,479
very much so.

3065
02:35:11,639 --> 02:35:14,840
Speaker 6: In fact, I can't take credit for searching this because

3066
02:35:14,840 --> 02:35:18,120
I was assisted by two local euthologists. This is Daniel

3067
02:35:18,120 --> 02:35:21,120
Bostock and Nigel Crowley, and without their input I would

3068
02:35:21,120 --> 02:35:23,959
have been I would have had nowhere to go with this.

3069
02:35:24,399 --> 02:35:28,280
I essentially re What I did was essentially reopening, reopened

3070
02:35:28,280 --> 02:35:30,280
a case that had been kind of forgotten. It was

3071
02:35:30,319 --> 02:35:33,680
first emerged in it was actually took place in nineteen

3072
02:35:33,719 --> 02:35:36,719
eighty seven, in November of nineteen eighty seven, in which

3073
02:35:36,799 --> 02:35:41,399
there was allowed which began with a loud, explosive noise

3074
02:35:42,440 --> 02:35:45,719
in the skies near above a place called well, it's

3075
02:35:45,760 --> 02:35:49,600
a region around Kirkby and Ashfield, Mansfield and that area

3076
02:35:49,680 --> 02:35:52,959
in north of the city of Nottingham. And this was

3077
02:35:52,959 --> 02:35:55,479
followed by all kinds of stories about what happened next,

3078
02:35:55,479 --> 02:35:56,959
but we know a lot of damage was done to

3079
02:35:57,000 --> 02:36:01,559
the local area. Buildings were damaged by the shock wave

3080
02:36:01,639 --> 02:36:04,600
and things like that. I very much wish I could

3081
02:36:04,680 --> 02:36:07,959
have been involved in the interview with Christian, but unfortunately

3082
02:36:07,959 --> 02:36:10,079
I was just I think I was just too tired.

3083
02:36:10,200 --> 02:36:13,120
It was you are busy. I think I'm overdoing I

3084
02:36:13,120 --> 02:36:15,200
think I'm overdoing it a bit, actually need to slow down.

3085
02:36:15,799 --> 02:36:19,840
But I die myself interviewed Christian over this issue a

3086
02:36:20,440 --> 02:36:23,719
few years ago, and he himself has done his own

3087
02:36:23,760 --> 02:36:26,879
series of research into this, we have come to different

3088
02:36:26,879 --> 02:36:32,360
conclusions about what caused this. Christian beliefs it was some

3089
02:36:32,440 --> 02:36:36,159
kind of accident involving a Harrier jump jet. I believe

3090
02:36:36,200 --> 02:36:40,559
in he and I didn't think that quite fitted the evidence.

3091
02:36:41,319 --> 02:36:43,440
I can't remember all the details about what we discussed,

3092
02:36:44,200 --> 02:36:48,040
but I suspect what happened, what I thought happened was

3093
02:36:48,200 --> 02:36:51,719
based on witnessed eyewitness testimony and other things. I mean

3094
02:36:51,719 --> 02:36:54,680
a good resources, actually one of them. As always, Nexus

3095
02:36:54,760 --> 02:36:57,319
magazine creates a magazine in the world for this sort

3096
02:36:57,360 --> 02:37:03,200
of thing. It's They did a piece about this written

3097
02:37:03,239 --> 02:37:06,520
by what's his name in Australian researcher whose name I

3098
02:37:06,559 --> 02:37:10,920
can't think I should Joe Viles. Written by Joe Viles,

3099
02:37:10,959 --> 02:37:15,479
an Australian researcher about this and what I spec happened

3100
02:37:15,600 --> 02:37:20,920
was an unknown object, some kind of flying object emerged

3101
02:37:20,920 --> 02:37:23,399
in the area and actually came to grief on the

3102
02:37:23,440 --> 02:37:26,559
Earth's surface. It landed at a place called Thieves Wood, which

3103
02:37:26,799 --> 02:37:30,360
resulted in a large fire. It then took off back

3104
02:37:30,360 --> 02:37:32,600
into the air and eventually came to rest at a

3105
02:37:32,600 --> 02:37:36,680
place called Annesley Hare, which is a derelict stately home

3106
02:37:36,920 --> 02:37:39,040
not not far from the M one, just near one

3107
02:37:39,079 --> 02:37:44,040
of the junctions, the N one. This was, This was

3108
02:37:44,079 --> 02:37:48,399
then gathered. It was the object, whatever it was, was

3109
02:37:48,680 --> 02:37:50,920
taken away by the government. We don't know how much.

3110
02:37:51,000 --> 02:37:52,639
We don't know many details of We don't have many

3111
02:37:52,639 --> 02:37:54,559
details about what this object was, what it looked like,

3112
02:37:55,120 --> 02:37:57,239
but it appears there was a Rosweld type There was

3113
02:37:57,280 --> 02:38:01,799
a Rosweld type response to this. But it's extremely interesting case.

3114
02:38:01,959 --> 02:38:06,120
And the reasons why I didn't quite go with Christian's

3115
02:38:06,200 --> 02:38:10,520
ideas was he brings up evidence such as the possible

3116
02:38:11,399 --> 02:38:16,280
effects of the jet exhaust on several areas, which doesn't

3117
02:38:16,360 --> 02:38:19,079
quite fit. I mean in terms of the heat effects

3118
02:38:19,120 --> 02:38:20,559
and things like that, and I don't have I can't

3119
02:38:20,600 --> 02:38:24,040
remember the details, but I'm sure Christian explained in his

3120
02:38:24,159 --> 02:38:27,319
interview what did leads details were, But I did disagree

3121
02:38:27,319 --> 02:38:28,959
with him on that, but we had a good discussion

3122
02:38:29,000 --> 02:38:29,479
about it.

3123
02:38:29,719 --> 02:38:32,479
Speaker 3: Well, for anyone that's interested, they can they can kind

3124
02:38:32,479 --> 02:38:35,120
of see your point of view. Go to your website

3125
02:38:35,200 --> 02:38:37,760
at what's your website then.

3126
02:38:37,799 --> 02:38:40,680
Speaker 6: Or panel hp A and w O Hospital Porters against

3127
02:38:40,680 --> 02:38:42,239
the New World, or if you go there, go to

3128
02:38:42,280 --> 02:38:45,440
her panel radio and just puts Christian's name into the

3129
02:38:45,479 --> 02:38:47,760
search box and you'll see there are I think three

3130
02:38:47,799 --> 02:38:49,920
interviews I did with him on various subjects.

3131
02:38:49,920 --> 02:38:52,319
Speaker 2: So they can also look for the Nottingham Sheer Roswell

3132
02:38:52,360 --> 02:38:56,520
with ben em Lynn Jones's on your own case field

3133
02:38:56,559 --> 02:39:01,120
work there. Yeah, that's yeah cool. Yeah, So Ben, what

3134
02:39:01,239 --> 02:39:05,719
you got lined up for Christmas? I'm going to basically

3135
02:39:05,799 --> 02:39:07,440
have a rest and I'm going to.

3136
02:39:09,440 --> 02:39:12,760
Speaker 6: And probably go to my daughter's house because she's having

3137
02:39:12,760 --> 02:39:14,680
a kind of little get together with her friends, and

3138
02:39:14,719 --> 02:39:16,879
she's inviting me around because everyone else in my family

3139
02:39:16,959 --> 02:39:19,680
is going to be away, and so I'm going to

3140
02:39:19,760 --> 02:39:20,959
go and spend the day with her.

3141
02:39:21,479 --> 02:39:25,239
Speaker 2: And it's nice, excellent, excellent. And what plans you got

3142
02:39:25,280 --> 02:39:25,879
for next year?

3143
02:39:27,520 --> 02:39:29,360
Speaker 6: So many I can't really tell because I think we

3144
02:39:29,600 --> 02:39:31,639
don't really have time to go into But I'm speaking

3145
02:39:31,680 --> 02:39:34,639
in a couple of events. I'm speaking at the Bowing

3146
02:39:34,760 --> 02:39:37,280
UFO group. I'm speaking at the Daughter Earth Mysteries group.

3147
02:39:37,440 --> 02:39:39,360
I'm hoping to go back to Contacts in the Desert.

3148
02:39:39,879 --> 02:39:43,920
I'd love to go there again. And a couple of

3149
02:39:43,920 --> 02:39:46,360
other things I've got in line, can't think of them

3150
02:39:46,399 --> 02:39:47,280
off on top of their head.

3151
02:39:47,760 --> 02:39:51,159
Speaker 2: Great, Okay, Andy, So what's your plans for Christmas and

3152
02:39:51,159 --> 02:39:53,639
what you're doing in the New Year? As plans are.

3153
02:39:54,360 --> 02:39:57,120
Speaker 4: Christmas not a lot, just relaxing, I think, watching TV,

3154
02:39:57,600 --> 02:40:01,680
eating lots of food, getting drunk. Usual plans for New

3155
02:40:01,719 --> 02:40:04,319
Year expand tuned in events. So at this point, if

3156
02:40:04,319 --> 02:40:07,079
anyone wants to join tuned with the de tuned in

3157
02:40:07,159 --> 02:40:11,520
events on Facebook, Instagram, et cetera, then we've got quite

3158
02:40:11,559 --> 02:40:13,879
a lot of things going on for Christmas period. Then

3159
02:40:13,879 --> 02:40:16,319
it kind of dies out in January, goes a bit dead,

3160
02:40:16,360 --> 02:40:18,719
and then it picks up with the usual about February time.

3161
02:40:19,639 --> 02:40:22,079
We're doing more psychic suppers. They tend to be doing

3162
02:40:22,239 --> 02:40:24,799
quite well. So people sit down, eat some food, and

3163
02:40:24,879 --> 02:40:27,959
kind of mediums do their things. So yeah, maybe a

3164
02:40:28,200 --> 02:40:29,399
few more than the next year.

3165
02:40:30,040 --> 02:40:31,159
Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent.

3166
02:40:31,680 --> 02:40:34,399
Speaker 3: And Gary, are you going back to Mexico and the

3167
02:40:34,440 --> 02:40:36,440
New yor you staying in hemel Hempstead.

3168
02:40:37,319 --> 02:40:38,879
Speaker 6: You know what, I'm going to be in Hemel Hempstead

3169
02:40:38,920 --> 02:40:39,479
for Christmas.

3170
02:40:39,520 --> 02:40:40,760
Speaker 2: That's going to be a quiet one.

3171
02:40:43,200 --> 02:40:45,000
Speaker 4: Are you going to imagine on the magic roundabout?

3172
02:40:45,559 --> 02:40:49,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, a little bit of what'sker to help him round it?

3173
02:40:51,239 --> 02:40:54,920
Speaker 2: Sorry, I was gonna say it's amazing how many people

3174
02:40:54,959 --> 02:40:57,840
get scared of that magic roundabout confusing.

3175
02:40:58,200 --> 02:41:02,040
Speaker 3: I was confused in actually when the first went round there,

3176
02:41:02,079 --> 02:41:04,000
But once I realized how to.

3177
02:41:03,959 --> 02:41:05,399
Speaker 2: Approach it, it was.

3178
02:41:05,360 --> 02:41:09,319
Speaker 3: Actually quite easy because what happens the mistake people make

3179
02:41:09,440 --> 02:41:12,440
They somehow take the center part of it thinking.

3180
02:41:12,280 --> 02:41:17,280
Speaker 2: That's a roundabout. It's not. That's just diverge, and you

3181
02:41:17,399 --> 02:41:19,879
just treat each roundabout as a separate roundabout.

3182
02:41:19,920 --> 02:41:21,959
Speaker 6: That's what you do exactly.

3183
02:41:21,719 --> 02:41:24,000
Speaker 7: If you take someone that's never been on it before

3184
02:41:24,280 --> 02:41:26,520
and drive through it at high speed and watch their face.

3185
02:41:26,680 --> 02:41:29,319
Speaker 2: I love another country.

3186
02:41:30,440 --> 02:41:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of people freak out about it, so yeah,

3187
02:41:33,319 --> 02:41:35,079
so an interesting. It is one of the most really

3188
02:41:35,120 --> 02:41:39,440
strangest roundabout. Someone really had some hioh oscle when they

3189
02:41:39,440 --> 02:41:41,079
designed that day on Wen did, didn't they?

3190
02:41:41,760 --> 02:41:43,799
Speaker 6: It's weird that I do not know.

3191
02:41:45,079 --> 02:41:47,040
Speaker 2: And what you're doing after Christmas, what you're doing in

3192
02:41:47,040 --> 02:41:49,239
the new year and plans for twenty twenty five.

3193
02:41:49,600 --> 02:41:52,239
Speaker 7: Well, I'll be busy as always with my label. So

3194
02:41:52,319 --> 02:41:55,680
I've got I want to label the moreal death Ray music,

3195
02:41:55,760 --> 02:41:58,639
which is synth wave and drum and bass. But anyone

3196
02:41:59,120 --> 02:42:02,239
who's into those kinds of music, so I've already got

3197
02:42:02,239 --> 02:42:04,559
a few records in the can that are going to

3198
02:42:04,600 --> 02:42:07,040
be out early in the new year, one of which

3199
02:42:07,079 --> 02:42:11,479
has a fantas singer called Jasmine Night, so I'm looking

3200
02:42:11,520 --> 02:42:14,440
forward to releasing that. I'm also getting quite busy again

3201
02:42:14,440 --> 02:42:16,799
with production music finally, because you know, I do a

3202
02:42:16,840 --> 02:42:20,440
bit of work a film through sync licensing, and that

3203
02:42:20,479 --> 02:42:23,360
whole industry has been pretty quiet for a couple of

3204
02:42:23,479 --> 02:42:26,159
years because of the Hollywood strikes and the wokeness and

3205
02:42:26,200 --> 02:42:29,079
the lap and it's now starting to pick up.

3206
02:42:29,799 --> 02:42:30,920
Speaker 6: These last couple of weeks.

3207
02:42:31,280 --> 02:42:34,600
Speaker 7: I've had a pretty good job on with a couple

3208
02:42:34,600 --> 02:42:37,079
of tracks that I've made for a client, which I'd

3209
02:42:37,120 --> 02:42:39,000
love to tell you about, but they made me sign

3210
02:42:39,040 --> 02:42:42,760
an NDA tell you about it on the next year's Christmas.

3211
02:42:42,840 --> 02:42:44,760
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll go forward to that.

3212
02:42:45,000 --> 02:42:45,120
Speaker 8: Luck.

3213
02:42:45,879 --> 02:42:47,479
Speaker 2: As far as I'm concerned, I'm just going to have

3214
02:42:47,520 --> 02:42:50,120
a quiet Christmas where my daughter's coming to see at Christmas.

3215
02:42:50,120 --> 02:42:52,879
She's trying her way down from the Orkney Islands, which

3216
02:42:52,920 --> 02:42:54,520
is nice, so she'll be coming down the door, sit

3217
02:42:54,600 --> 02:42:57,600
and spending Christmas Day with us and everything, so that'd

3218
02:42:57,639 --> 02:43:01,799
be lovely. And I will be backing on with the

3219
02:43:01,840 --> 02:43:06,200
proofreading of my new book, I've over Got the True

3220
02:43:06,239 --> 02:43:10,799
Tales of the Paranor Out. I'm also working another book

3221
02:43:10,840 --> 02:43:13,760
called Unsolved Modern Mysteries, where I look at all these

3222
02:43:13,840 --> 02:43:17,559
various mysteries from the twentieth century and the twenty first century.

3223
02:43:17,639 --> 02:43:20,959
So I cover quite a few variations of different mysteries there,

3224
02:43:21,040 --> 02:43:27,120
from Bigfoot to Roswell to the MH three seventy flight

3225
02:43:27,200 --> 02:43:30,600
to Madeline McCann, the Oakville Blobs, all sorts of weird stuff.

3226
02:43:30,639 --> 02:43:33,159
So I'm actually going through the prereading of that now,

3227
02:43:33,399 --> 02:43:36,239
and that'd be handing back in January. So I'm assuming

3228
02:43:36,280 --> 02:43:39,840
that book will be out about probably late summer of

3229
02:43:39,879 --> 02:43:42,680
twenty twenty five, and then after that I'll crack on

3230
02:43:42,760 --> 02:43:46,440
with my other book projects and illustration projects and all

3231
02:43:46,440 --> 02:43:48,760
sorts of creative things that I'm doing. So, yeah, I

3232
02:43:48,799 --> 02:43:49,600
watch this space.

3233
02:43:50,639 --> 02:43:52,600
Speaker 6: Before you bring out the new book. We're going to

3234
02:43:52,639 --> 02:43:55,959
do like a review program, aren't we, of the book

3235
02:43:56,000 --> 02:43:56,959
you've just published.

3236
02:43:57,319 --> 02:43:58,600
Speaker 2: Yes, going to do that.

3237
02:43:58,600 --> 02:43:59,959
Speaker 6: Sometime in the new year. Will be doing that.

3238
02:44:00,399 --> 02:44:04,120
Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. Yeah, that's that's cool. Yeah, Yeah, that'd

3239
02:44:04,120 --> 02:44:07,159
be great. So yeah, I would like to take this

3240
02:44:07,200 --> 02:44:10,360
one to wish everybody who listens to the paranorl peep

3241
02:44:10,360 --> 02:44:14,159
Show on the paranorl UK Radio network, a wonderful Christmas

3242
02:44:14,159 --> 02:44:17,680
and a very happy New Year, and everybody else watching

3243
02:44:17,799 --> 02:44:19,319
on all other platforms.

3244
02:44:19,520 --> 02:44:21,559
Speaker 2: Again, we wish you a very happy New Year and

3245
02:44:21,600 --> 02:44:25,440
a peaceful Christmas with all your family and friends, and

3246
02:44:25,479 --> 02:45:03,680
thanks for tuning into us. Cheeriot by By had to,

3247
02:45:03,840 --> 02:45:04,280
but Ma