Speaker 1: This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to KFI
Speaker 1: AM six forty, the Doctor Wendy wallsh Show on demand
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app AFI AM six Sporty. You have
Speaker 1: doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy
Speaker 1: Waalsh Show. Before I start going to social media to
Speaker 1: answer questions, I just want to say that I was
Speaker 1: just reading that Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who is
Speaker 1: on the short list to be Kamala Harris's running mate,
Speaker 1: is getting criticized for how poorly he handled a sexual
Speaker 1: harassment complaint not against him, against a longtime top aid.
Speaker 1: Apparently this aid harassed a woman, made graphic sexual overtones,
Speaker 1: then criticized her job performance. When she refused him. She
Speaker 1: ended up quitting and getting almost three hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 1: after the lawyers got involved. And I guess he was
Speaker 1: supposed to handle it differently. I don't know. Should he
Speaker 1: have to take the fall for something another dude did
Speaker 1: at his office? I don't know, but he is on
Speaker 1: the shortlist to be a Calmalist running mate. All right,
Speaker 1: I am going to your social media, my social media
Speaker 1: to answer your questions. Your DMS if you'd like to
Speaker 1: send me one. The handle is at d R Wendy
Speaker 1: Walsh at doctor Wendy Walsh and a reminder. I'm not
Speaker 1: a therapist. I'm a psychology professor, but I'm obsessed with
Speaker 1: the science of love. I've written three books on relationships,
Speaker 1: did a dissertation on attachment theory, and well I learned
Speaker 1: from a lot of life experience at a lot of wisdom.
Speaker 1: All right, here we go, let me open this up. Hey,
Speaker 1: doctor Wendy says this listener. I've been dating a new
Speaker 1: guy for two months. We've gone on six dates, but
Speaker 1: they were all in the evening. Is this a sign
Speaker 1: that he's only after one thing? Hmm? So because they're
Speaker 1: in the evening. Most people complain that they don't don't
Speaker 1: get taken out on a proper date in the evening.
Speaker 1: Sounds like this guy is doing a proper courtship. Now,
Speaker 1: six dates all evening. You didn't tell me whether you
Speaker 1: gave him the one you think he's after. I don't
Speaker 1: know so. And also have you suggested, you know, let's
Speaker 1: go see a matinee or let's go have a picnic
Speaker 1: in the bark during the day or let's go to
Speaker 1: the farmer's market, or let's walk at the beach in
Speaker 1: the day. Whatever. Have you suggested that and he's turned
Speaker 1: you down, because that would be a telling piece of information.
Speaker 1: He could be just going slowly. He could be just formal.
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, I don't know what he's
Speaker 1: doing at the end of those dates. And if he's
Speaker 1: being you know, very sexual with you and you're rebuffing him,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe maybe, but most guys don't hang
Speaker 1: in there for six full dates that he's paying for
Speaker 1: if all he's wanting is sex, because it's so easy
Speaker 1: to get free sex. Right now, just saying so, I
Speaker 1: think he's just being formal, that's my guess, but try
Speaker 1: asking him. All right, moving on, Hey, doctor Wendy, I've
Speaker 1: been in a situation ship for two years. If you
Speaker 1: guys don't know what a situationship is, it is a
Speaker 1: relationship where you're having sex. Is supposed to be no
Speaker 1: strings attached, it does It's undefined, right, Nobody has had
Speaker 1: the conversation of what are we And the fact that
Speaker 1: you've I've just read the first sentence. I have been
Speaker 1: in a situationship for two years. Two years in an
Speaker 1: undefined relationship sharing. This is a female sharing your eggs,
Speaker 1: your bloodstream, risking your heart for two years, and then
Speaker 1: she puts in brackets. I was hoping for change, as
Speaker 1: if change is something that just comes down from the
Speaker 1: heavens and all of a sudden, somebody anoints you as girlfriend. No,
Speaker 1: do you know who gets to be a girlfriend? The
Speaker 1: one who asks for it, the one who learns how
Speaker 1: to negotiate commitment. And two years into it, you've lost
Speaker 1: a lot of your negotiating power. That's the problem. So
Speaker 1: she can take though. He gave me the bare minimum
Speaker 1: for too long. So I started dating someone else. Wait,
Speaker 1: you were giving him sexual exclusivity in a situationship with
Speaker 1: no name. Okay, so you started dating someone else. Now
Speaker 1: he's actually putting in an effort. Is this a trick
Speaker 1: or should I give him all my attention again? You
Speaker 1: need to stop playing games. You need to just talk
Speaker 1: to him about what are we do You want to
Speaker 1: be exclusive? If not, I'm out. I've done my two
Speaker 1: years time. That's all you need to do. Talk about
Speaker 1: these things. Don't write me, I mean do write me.
Speaker 1: I'm happy to weigh in, but you need to talk
Speaker 1: to him about it. Wow, is this just a trick
Speaker 1: or should I give him my attention again? A trick?
Speaker 1: He's realizing he's got competition, so he's trying a little harder.
Speaker 1: That's all that is. So the question is he gonna
Speaker 1: try hard enough to say yes when you say we
Speaker 1: need to be exclusive, you gotta have the conversation. Be brave,
Speaker 1: somebody be brave. O. Hey, moving along, Hey, doctor Wendy.
Speaker 1: I matched with a woman on a dating site and
Speaker 1: we had a really good conversation on the phone. We
Speaker 1: haven't met in person, but she's told me she already
Speaker 1: deleted her app. How do I tell her to slow
Speaker 1: down without her thinking I'm not interested? You say slow down?
Speaker 1: You literally say what You're off the app? Like I'm
Speaker 1: the one for you? You say that we haven't even met.
Speaker 1: And also, dude, that's a huge red flag. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's somebody with an attachment style, like, Oh, I can't
Speaker 1: believe you have one phone conversation with somebody. You go,
Speaker 1: I'm getting off the app. You sound perfect. Oh, dear,
Speaker 1: I would worry. I don't think i'd want to meet
Speaker 1: her in person, maybe even Ghoster. No, don't ghost her.
Speaker 1: You had a conversation. You're going to tell her, maybe
Speaker 1: text her move on, Dear doctor, Wendy, my boyfriend isn't
Speaker 1: as motivated when it comes to career goals and passion projects.
Speaker 1: This is a turn enough for me. I don't think
Speaker 1: it's something he will change. Can I grow to not
Speaker 1: be bothered by this? Or are we not compatible? We
Speaker 1: have been together for four years, all right? You are
Speaker 1: speaking with the voice of somebody who has an attachment
Speaker 1: to somebody but is not looking towards having the same
Speaker 1: kind of future and future goals.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I have a friend who's a marriage and family therapist,
Speaker 1: and she once told me. I said, what is the
Speaker 1: most common conflict that couples come into your practice with?
Speaker 1: And she said, it doesn't matter what it is, it
Speaker 1: never changes. They learn to manage it, but it never
Speaker 1: gets resolved. There's always this one thing, and I teach
Speaker 1: them skills to manage it. So if she were talking,
Speaker 1: she might say, yeah, you can learn skills to not
Speaker 1: be so bothered by it. But if it's about career goals,
Speaker 1: if it's about income, and you've been together four years,
Speaker 1: you didn't say how old you are, so I don't
Speaker 1: really know, Like if you're planning on having a family
Speaker 1: because your financial needs are going to change, and then
Speaker 1: this will become a really big problem for you. So again,
Speaker 1: it's not your job to drag that horse to water,
Speaker 1: lay out the trough of water. If he doesn't drink,
Speaker 1: then you've got to make a decision to move on
Speaker 1: or not. Can't change him. You can change your reaction
Speaker 1: to him, but you can't change him, right, that's the
Speaker 1: important thing. And I want you to think about how
Speaker 1: important this career goal thing is now compared to how
Speaker 1: it's going to be in the future, and what would
Speaker 1: happen if you sounds like you're very ambitious and if
Speaker 1: you start getting a bunch of promotions and start making
Speaker 1: more money, you will outgrow him so fast. So you
Speaker 1: got to talk to him about it, not try to
Speaker 1: change him and get him to be more ambitious, but
Speaker 1: talk about how you can live with this together or
Speaker 1: what's going to happen in the future. All right, when
Speaker 1: we come back, I will continue to answer your social
Speaker 1: media questions. Send me a DM on Instagram. It is
Speaker 1: at doctor Wendy Walsh. At Dr Wendy Walsh, you are
Speaker 1: listening to the Dr Wendy Walsh show on KFI AM
Speaker 1: six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3: You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
Speaker 3: AM six forty.
Speaker 1: Hef I Am six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh
Speaker 1: with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. I'm
Speaker 1: answering your questions. Reminder, I'm a psychology professor, not a therapist.
Speaker 1: But I've got opinions and I've got life experience, and
Speaker 1: I'm happy to weigh in on your relationships. Okay, go
Speaker 1: into Instagram if you want to send me a DM.
Speaker 1: It's at Dr Wendy Walsh at doctor Wendy Walsh. All right,
Speaker 1: Dear Doctor Wendy. Every time my boyfriend has a night
Speaker 1: out with the boys, Instagram friends go up. Give me
Speaker 1: his Instagram friends. He always gains about twenty followers, follows
Speaker 1: them back. He doesn't give out his socials to strangers
Speaker 1: when he's out with me. Is this a red flag?
Speaker 1: This is a flaming light on fire red flag. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you know this, but people use Instagram
Speaker 1: as a dating app. Now. They get into each other's dms.
Speaker 1: Even Simone Biles found her husband by sending him a
Speaker 1: DM on Instagram. So he goes out with the boys,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, he's following twenty more people.
Speaker 1: I guess the question is are they women? Right? So,
Speaker 1: you know, like everything else, I would always suggest talking
Speaker 1: about it first, but then you're gonna hear a bunch
Speaker 1: of blah blah blah. What do you mean? Why are
Speaker 1: you looking at my Instagram? And who cares? People? Just
Speaker 1: ask me? Ah right, But it's telling you something. It's
Speaker 1: telling you that he's out there, he's social, he's meeting people,
Speaker 1: he's building up his friend bank in case he wants
Speaker 1: to leave. That's what I'm saying, all right, Dear doctor Wendy,
Speaker 1: My ex and I were so perfect for each other. Oh,
Speaker 1: looking back with rose colored glasses. Uh Oh. Then she
Speaker 1: says I got pregnant and he wasn't ready for a child.
Speaker 1: I got an abortion although I didn't want one. Oh,
Speaker 1: and now I can't get past blaming him. I still
Speaker 1: love him, but I feel such a deep loss, and
Speaker 1: I blame him. Can we still make it work? All right?
Speaker 1: I have a whole bunch of questions here. First of all,
Speaker 1: you refer to this person as your ex, my ex
Speaker 1: and I were so perfect for each other. So that's
Speaker 1: past tense, and now you're suddenly saying I still love him,
Speaker 1: but i'm mad at him. Can we still make it work?
Speaker 1: First of all, no one should make you do something
Speaker 1: with your body that you don't want to do, so
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that you made that choice based on
Speaker 1: his pressure. I think what you are thinking is, well,
Speaker 1: I'll get an abortion because he's not ready yet. But
Speaker 1: once I do that and he sees that I really
Speaker 1: love him and I'll do anything he says, then he'll
Speaker 1: turn around and love me, and then we can have
Speaker 1: our love baby together and he'll be ready. No, if
Speaker 1: he said he's not ready for a kid, maybe he's
Speaker 1: also not ready for you. And I don't understand. Are
Speaker 1: you even talking to him right now? I will say this,
Speaker 1: you need to go see a licensed therapist. These feelings,
Speaker 1: these tender, painful feelings, need an ally to help you
Speaker 1: work through them, because yeah, you're feeling a feeling of
Speaker 1: deep loss and you're angry with him, but yet at
Speaker 1: the same time, you still love him. Your therapist can
Speaker 1: help you make sense of those feelings so that you
Speaker 1: can work through them. And if you're asking me, can
Speaker 1: we still make it work? I guess my question is
Speaker 1: are you even talking or is this fantasy in your head?
Speaker 1: I don't know. Oh, good luck, baby girl. Alrighty uh hey,
Speaker 1: doctor Wendy says this person. I'm a sucker for love,
Speaker 1: and I always get wrapped up in the honeymoon phase
Speaker 1: and then I hurt my own feelings. How can I
Speaker 1: slow my heart down? Well, first of all, it's not
Speaker 1: your heart, it's your head. And you have a model
Speaker 1: for love that has a little bit of anxiety attached
Speaker 1: to it, like an anxious attachment style. So you want
Speaker 1: to become immeshed with somebody really fast. There are some
Speaker 1: people that just want to become completely fused at the beginning,
Speaker 1: because if they can do that, then in their mind,
Speaker 1: they won't be abandoned, right, They can stick together like glue.
Speaker 1: So the answer, of course, is to work on your
Speaker 1: feelings of anxiety before you meet people, to understand that
Speaker 1: there is a gentle pace and if you find yourself
Speaker 1: you know like, some people will say, well, I will
Speaker 1: just take it slower, I will call them less often,
Speaker 1: I will make myself not to see them so often.
Speaker 1: All those behavior is great, but if it doesn't change
Speaker 1: the feelings underneath it. In other words, if you're still
Speaker 1: dreaming about them, thinking about them, counting the minutes between
Speaker 1: the calls, you're still in your place of anxiety. So
Speaker 1: it's about learning, usually with a therapist. That's how I
Speaker 1: work through my anxious attachment style. There's a way to
Speaker 1: learn to know that it's okay to wait, that you're
Speaker 1: a good person, you're a lovable person, and the right
Speaker 1: person in time will show up at the right time,
Speaker 1: and that you can have the correct pace, and then
Speaker 1: you won't hurt your own feelings. As you say, all right,
Speaker 1: dear doctor Wendy, My girlfriend claims to love me, but
Speaker 1: her actions tell me she doesn't like me. It's hard
Speaker 1: to explain, but she ruins my special moments and puts
Speaker 1: me down at every chance she gets. So that's insecurity
Speaker 1: on her side. By the way, when somebody puts the
Speaker 1: other person down, it's because they're insecure. Then you say,
Speaker 1: I love her, but I told her leave me. If
Speaker 1: she doesn't like me as a person, she won't admit
Speaker 1: to not liking me. Is it possible for someone to
Speaker 1: want to stay in a relationship with someone they don't like?
Speaker 1: If so, why do people stay in a relationship? You know,
Speaker 1: I don't think you're asking me about her, You're asking
Speaker 1: me about yourself because you don't really like her. How
Speaker 1: can you like somebody who puts you down every chance
Speaker 1: she gets? And really the question is why are you staying? Right?
Speaker 1: And again, like I said at the beginning of the show,
Speaker 1: a lot of this goes back to what happened in
Speaker 1: early childhood and your model for love that you can
Speaker 1: peel away all those layers working with a clinical therapist.
Speaker 1: But honestly, it's not about finding happiness. Love is about
Speaker 1: finding the familiar. And until we change our model for love,
Speaker 1: we won't find a happy relationship. I don't know why
Speaker 1: you'd stay with somebody who puts you down all the time. Alrighty,
Speaker 1: if you want to send me a DM for the
Speaker 1: future or anytime you can, the handle everywhere is at
Speaker 1: doctor Wendy Walsh when we come back. In my Patreon group,
Speaker 1: one of the followers, one of the members of our
Speaker 1: group suggested that we all watch this really interesting documentary
Speaker 1: on YouTube called Empty Love. I was fascinated with this.
Speaker 1: You should watch it Empty Love when we come back.
Speaker 1: I've got the producer director of Empty Love. You are
Speaker 1: listening to The Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM
Speaker 1: six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio App.
Speaker 3: You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
Speaker 3: AM six forty.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show and KFI
Speaker 1: AM six forty. We are live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 1: My guest is someone I uh well, I am very
Speaker 1: proud to say. I know. I like to think when
Speaker 1: I find someone who's a little younger than me, who
Speaker 1: seems to be saying the same message that I've been
Speaker 1: saying for three decades, that I have passed the baton.
Speaker 1: Of course, she didn't know who I was, or the
Speaker 1: fact that I've set it for three decades. I'd like
Speaker 1: to welcome Lauren Southern. She's a Canadian journalist, author, and
Speaker 1: documentary filmmaker, best known for film's Farmlands, Borderless, and most recently, Crossfire.
Speaker 1: But the one I want to talk about tonight is
Speaker 1: called Empty Love, thought provoking exploration of modern romance in
Speaker 1: the digital age. Welcome Lauren Southern. Good to have you here.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: So let's start with the why of all the topics
Speaker 1: you've delved into, and there's quite a range of them.
Speaker 1: Why did you decide to make a documentary about our
Speaker 1: love lives? And why did you call it empty Love?
Speaker 2: Well, all the topics that I pick tend to be
Speaker 2: things I see going on around me in the real world.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a lot of cultural or nonsense going
Speaker 2: on in the Internet, but I think a lot of
Speaker 2: it is actually motivated by people's relationships.
Speaker 4: When you've got.
Speaker 2: A lot of individuals who are in their love life,
Speaker 2: who have a lot of pain from rejection, divorce, it
Speaker 2: manifests in this explosion of content that we're seeing from
Speaker 2: the red tailed manosphere to extremist feminist content. I'm sure
Speaker 2: you've seen shows like Fresh and Fit or the Whatever podcasts,
Speaker 2: and you're seeing these very absurd caricatures of men and
Speaker 2: women being portrayed online. All women are gold digging whorees.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you've seen those takes on TikTok and Twitter.
Speaker 2: All men are rapists or you know, abusers, And I
Speaker 2: think this is a manifestation of a collective difficulty that
Speaker 2: everyone is having in making relationships work. And I'm sure
Speaker 2: we'll get.
Speaker 4: Into the many reasons why that is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's talk about some of the reasons. I
Speaker 1: will start with my knowledge of evolutionary psychology. So up
Speaker 1: until about you know, one hundred and fifty years ago,
Speaker 1: maybe one hundred years ago, at least in our anthropological past,
Speaker 1: we never laid eyes on more than about you know,
Speaker 1: one hundred and two hundred humans in our entire lifespan.
Speaker 1: And anybody we had sex with was probably somebody we knew.
Speaker 1: They were a third cousin, they were a friendly tribe
Speaker 1: member from next door. Everybody was vetted by the tribe,
Speaker 1: and today we have potential new mates, thousands of them,
Speaker 1: one thumb swipe away. We live in urban centers where
Speaker 1: we lay eyes on thousands of people weekly, and as
Speaker 1: a result, I feel like our brains, our ancient brains,
Speaker 1: are highly confused. What are some of the issues that
Speaker 1: you're seeing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there.
Speaker 2: I mean, we spoke a lot in the film about
Speaker 2: this paralysis of choice that has occurred as a result
Speaker 2: of apps like Tinder, hinge, all these new dating mechanisms
Speaker 2: that have appeared, and also the comparison we see online
Speaker 2: all the time, people posting their happy relationships on Instagram,
Speaker 2: I'm on a boat today with my partner. I've got it,
Speaker 2: even richer.
Speaker 4: Partner that's got me on a private check.
Speaker 2: And everyone is under the impression that that is like
Speaker 2: right in front of them, just within their reach if
Speaker 2: they can find the right person, and so it's all
Speaker 2: about trading up to the next best thing. I was
Speaker 2: just reading some data on NBC News saying that around
Speaker 2: sixty percent of Tinder users are already in a relationship,
Speaker 2: and this is something I've seen in my own life
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 4: Most of the people, because.
Speaker 2: I'm coming on thirty here, most of my friends are married,
Speaker 2: you know, dating at least, And most of the people
Speaker 2: I know who are downloading Tinder are doing it to
Speaker 2: check if their partners are on it. They're swiping through
Speaker 2: to find if they can see an obscured photo of
Speaker 2: their husband or something, if they're in a fight, or
Speaker 2: they're living separately because they're in therapy, and a lot
Speaker 2: of times they're finding them there. And this can be
Speaker 2: scary for people who are.
Speaker 4: Single using these apps. I know I have.
Speaker 2: My assistant is twenty two years old, and we talk
Speaker 2: about this. She just uninstalled the apps herself because she's like, man,
Speaker 2: it's just rough out there. And when I see my
Speaker 2: friend's husbands or ex husbands that are using the app
Speaker 2: posting single, not posting that they have kids, or putting
Speaker 2: I want to have kids one day, I think that
Speaker 2: would be a terrifying prospect to be spending time, you know,
Speaker 2: weeks going out with this person to discover they have
Speaker 2: a wife and three kids. Maybe even never discover that. Right,
Speaker 2: But this is how people are being taught to approach
Speaker 2: relationships today. It's all about what can I gain from it,
Speaker 2: and not about the loyalty aspect or like you were saying,
Speaker 2: it's not with people who have been heavily vetted by
Speaker 2: their community. If you're in a small town, there's not
Speaker 2: much option, and if you're in a city, everyone's a
Speaker 2: little anonymous in a city.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, it's the anonymity that's an issue. And also
Speaker 1: you mentioned paradox of choice. This is a very real
Speaker 1: psychological phenomenon. When the human brain is presented with too
Speaker 1: much choice, it actually has trouble making a choice. We
Speaker 1: like shortcuts to choice, we like fewer choices, and so
Speaker 1: it has trouble making a choice. And when it does
Speaker 1: make a choice, as you alluded to, we don't value
Speaker 1: that choice as much. We actually think, well, maybe there
Speaker 1: was a bigger, better deal that we missed, and so
Speaker 1: having too much choice. In fact, I often suggest that
Speaker 1: when people do use the dating apps, that they never
Speaker 1: match with more than two people at once and just
Speaker 1: choose one or the other and let it ride for
Speaker 1: a bit and see what's what, instead of having their
Speaker 1: box filled with messages from ten or twenty people. So
Speaker 1: you mentioned paradox of choice, you mentioned the digital age,
Speaker 1: but underlying this I'm hearing something else, especially when you're
Speaker 1: talking about spouse is going on to see if their
Speaker 1: spouse is on there, or to see if their spouse
Speaker 1: rates like the other choices out there. Are we missing
Speaker 1: basic trust? Are we missing a basic sense of security
Speaker 1: that normally would come from a relationship.
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: And you know what's strange as well, is at the
Speaker 2: very beginning of the movie I published as Anti Love,
Speaker 2: there's a gentleman I'm interviewing and he states, I wear
Speaker 2: a wedding ring everywhere I go. When I go of bars,
Speaker 2: I put on a wedding ring because women like married
Speaker 2: men better. And I thought that was such a bizarre thing.
Speaker 2: People are almost whenever you see someone who is over
Speaker 2: the age of thirty. The first question that everyone around
Speaker 2: me asks.
Speaker 4: Is why are they still single?
Speaker 2: There is an inherent distrust of people who are even single,
Speaker 2: who don't even have anyone.
Speaker 4: It's why are they still single? What did they do
Speaker 4: to get that position?
Speaker 2: And in a way, when someone has already taken already married,
Speaker 2: people assume they've already been vetted by someone. They've already
Speaker 2: been vetted that probably must be a good individual to
Speaker 2: be with.
Speaker 1: I call it the woman approved man. She's been the
Speaker 1: man who's been approved by a woman already. Hey, when
Speaker 1: we come back, I want to talk a little bit
Speaker 1: more about the problem, and I also want to get
Speaker 1: into talking about solutions, given that we do live in
Speaker 1: this culture and we are mostly wired to reproduce. So
Speaker 1: let's talk about the ways we can find solid, healthy relationships.
Speaker 1: When we come back. My guest is documentarian Lauren Southern.
Speaker 1: You are listening to The Doctor Wendy Walls Show on
Speaker 1: KFI AM six forty.
Speaker 3: You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI
Speaker 3: AM six forty.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI
Speaker 1: AM six forty Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. My
Speaker 1: guest Lauren Southern, a Canadian journalist, author and documentary filmmaker.
Speaker 1: You've got to see her documentary. It is called Empty Love.
Speaker 1: And before we go too far, Lauren, it's available on
Speaker 1: YouTube free for anybody.
Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, you can find it on Tenet Media.
Speaker 1: Oh great, so it is there. It's available. Go to
Speaker 1: your computer. Just google the words empty love and you
Speaker 1: will find it. So we were talking about some of
Speaker 1: the problems in finding mate or having trusting relationships have
Speaker 1: to do with digital Also this idea that if we
Speaker 1: could just find the perfect mate, or the richest mate,
Speaker 1: or the most beautiful mate. I have always said that
Speaker 1: if you have good relationship skills, you will be attractive
Speaker 1: to more people and you will be comfortable finding a mate.
Speaker 1: It's not about you, know. I believe love is not
Speaker 1: about luck. It's about skills, and anyone can learn those skills.
Speaker 1: Where do you think we fell off the wagon in
Speaker 1: this idea that there is one mate that can help
Speaker 1: us feel secure and we're on this endless search for perfection.
Speaker 1: What happened?
Speaker 2: There is a fascinating phenomenon going on right now where
Speaker 2: it's almost a rage against the Disney movies that we
Speaker 2: watched when we were younger. We see it in the
Speaker 2: new Barbie movie that came out.
Speaker 4: We see it in the.
Speaker 2: Remakes of the Archie comics on Netflix. And they're remaking
Speaker 2: these romance and love films to be dark and have
Speaker 2: this dark underbelly of there's cheating, there's misogyny, there's.
Speaker 4: This, there's that.
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of young people will put
Speaker 2: under the impression, certainly young women, that love is supposed
Speaker 2: to be this, you find the prince and you ride
Speaker 2: off into the sunset. But they never show in these
Speaker 2: movies what happens after the prince and the princess ride
Speaker 2: off into the sunset.
Speaker 4: So when these people find the.
Speaker 2: Prince charming and get married and things get complicated and hard,
Speaker 2: they feel very bitter. Why isn't this my perfect romance?
Speaker 2: And then it comes to well, I've got to find
Speaker 2: something else. I've got to find someone else. And I
Speaker 2: think we're seeing this rage against the traditional relationship because
Speaker 2: it was sold to young people in this package of
Speaker 2: perfection without complexity by all of the media that they
Speaker 2: grew up on.
Speaker 4: And this was a new.
Speaker 2: Era of media, right, this is the first time in
Speaker 2: human history that you had all these color films and
Speaker 2: cartoons that kids grew up on from the day they
Speaker 2: were born, watching TV shows, And now, of course it's
Speaker 2: going to be even worse with gen Z.
Speaker 4: You look at this with the type of if you've.
Speaker 2: Ever seen Euphoria, there's a scene in it where this
Speaker 2: girl is I believe she's losing her virginity and the
Speaker 2: guy just starts strangling her and he's confused. She's confused,
Speaker 2: and he's like, I thought this was normal because he
Speaker 2: grew up on important. He thought that was what sex was.
Speaker 4: Supposed to look like.
Speaker 2: And you're seeing this more and more, increasing violence and sex,
Speaker 2: increasing just what people are seeing on the screen, and
Speaker 2: none of it is really translating to real life, and
Speaker 2: it's causing a lot of horror, discomfort, loneliness, and brokenness
Speaker 2: in this generation.
Speaker 1: Isn't it ironic with the fact that there are so
Speaker 1: many mates available, they're easily accessible, literally a quick thumb
Speaker 1: swipe and a text and you can meet somebody, and
Speaker 1: yet we're experiencing an epidemic of loneliness. Talk about that
Speaker 1: for a bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, Well, when you can't get to that next
Speaker 2: level of a relationship where you have that trust, you
Speaker 2: have that you've been through things together, you've forgiven one another,
Speaker 2: you've worked through it. Of course you'll be lonely. That's
Speaker 2: what a family is, right. Families are never perfect.
Speaker 4: You have fights, you have big hurdles you have to
Speaker 4: get through.
Speaker 2: And forgive people for But because once again that Didny
Speaker 2: style projection that these young people have of relationships, you
Speaker 2: jump to the next one, you jump to the next one,
Speaker 2: and you never get to that deeper level.
Speaker 4: And I mean there's a lot of.
Speaker 2: Young people that aren't even getting into relationships at all whatsoever.
Speaker 2: They're using the Internet or movies or.
Speaker 4: Dating, you know, AI as a replacement for these things.
Speaker 2: And you know, I live in a world where a
Speaker 2: lot of my friends are online content creators.
Speaker 4: They have lots of followers.
Speaker 2: And that's an even more.
Speaker 4: Interesting situation because.
Speaker 2: I find a lot of men that I know who
Speaker 2: have a ton of options in the dating world. It
Speaker 2: can be even more difficult for them, even if they
Speaker 2: are good at relationships, because oh, a conflict has occurred
Speaker 2: in my relationship, there's stress. Instead of working through that stress,
Speaker 2: I have a thousand girls in my DMS that I
Speaker 2: can go hit up right now and jump to the
Speaker 2: person exactly what I deal with stress in the relationship.
Speaker 1: Well, you know somebody who will be nice to me,
Speaker 1: who's a stranger. You know. I've always said that the
Speaker 1: road to intimacy is paved with ruptures followed by repairs,
Speaker 1: and it is during that repair process that we really
Speaker 1: grow closer, get to understand each other's tender spots, get
Speaker 1: to say I'm sorry, and grow closer. And indeed, there's
Speaker 1: research on long term happy people people who say they
Speaker 1: have happy, secure relationships and lo and behold. Turns out
Speaker 1: they have more conflict than other relationships who report that
Speaker 1: they're more unhappy. But they're not having the big, knockdown,
Speaker 1: drag themout blowouts. They're having the tiny border skirmishes all
Speaker 1: day long that are just boundary negotiations. So they get
Speaker 1: good at conflict, and that's a healthy relationship. People who
Speaker 1: have unhealthy relationships never actually learn how to have healthy conflict.
Speaker 1: They're just having big fights and breaking up that sort
Speaker 1: of thing. So what do you think the solution is?
Speaker 1: We only have a few minutes left, so let's solve
Speaker 1: all the problems of our love lives in two minutes.
Speaker 4: Oh, jeez, my goodness.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean button to delete the Internet. I absolutely would,
Speaker 2: I'd restart.
Speaker 4: You know, this is where I work my job.
Speaker 2: But I think it's done more damage than good for
Speaker 2: the modern soul.
Speaker 4: Maybe it's saved us in some ways of you know, being.
Speaker 2: Able to connect us to people overseas, being able to
Speaker 2: make us watch all these movies, see all this art.
Speaker 2: But when it comes to the human soul, like you said,
Speaker 2: we were not.
Speaker 4: Developed this way.
Speaker 2: We weren't developed to be in contact with so many individuals,
Speaker 2: to have so many people.
Speaker 4: At our fingertips.
Speaker 2: So I think we're going to see, definitely from gen
Speaker 2: Z at some point, a revolt against technology as their
Speaker 2: lives feel more and more empty as they struggle to
Speaker 2: find meeting. I think it's actually going to be the
Speaker 2: guys you meet or the girls you meet that don't
Speaker 2: have an Instagram account, that don't use the dating apps,
Speaker 2: that don't have a Facebook profile, that are going to
Speaker 2: be really high on the you know, attractiveness traits. Oh,
Speaker 2: you're not out there looking for ten thousand different people.
Speaker 2: I love that about you.
Speaker 4: I think that's amazing.
Speaker 2: I know that's not as for everyone though, So this
Speaker 2: is really going to have to be left up to
Speaker 2: smarter people to me because I'm out here trying to
Speaker 2: figure it out like everyone else.
Speaker 1: Well, I've been trying to do it for thirty years,
Speaker 1: and I continue to share the research with anyone who
Speaker 1: will listen. And Lauren, thank you for exposing the problem,
Speaker 1: especially to a younger generation where this is a real
Speaker 1: crisis for them. And I think your documentary Empty Love
Speaker 1: is really really well done. Thank you for being with
Speaker 1: me on KFI and that brings the Doctor, That brings
Speaker 1: a Doctor Wendy Wall Show to a close. I'm here
Speaker 1: every Sunday from seven to nine pm Pacific time. You
Speaker 1: can also follow me on social media while we're at
Speaker 1: it at Doctor Wendy Walsh and join my Patreon on
Speaker 1: Wednesday nights. We have an active group of listeners who
Speaker 1: talk about this on a regular basis, but I'm always
Speaker 1: here for you on Sunday nights. You've been listening to
Speaker 1: the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on KFI AM six forty
Speaker 1: live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You've been listening to
Speaker 1: Doctor Wendy Walsh. You can always hear us live on
Speaker 1: KFI AM six forty from seven to nine pm on
Speaker 1: Sunday and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.