WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.680 --> 00:00:02.919 This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you're listening to KFI 2 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:05.960 AM six forty, the Doctor Wendy wallsh Show on demand 3 00:00:06.280 --> 00:00:10.000 on the iHeartRadio app AFI AM six Sporty. You have 4 00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:12.640 doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is the Doctor Wendy 5 00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:15.439 Waalsh Show. Before I start going to social media to 6 00:00:15.439 --> 00:00:17.199 answer questions, I just want to say that I was 7 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:21.000 just reading that Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, who is 8 00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:24.199 on the short list to be Kamala Harris's running mate, 9 00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:28.320 is getting criticized for how poorly he handled a sexual 10 00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:32.759 harassment complaint not against him, against a longtime top aid. 11 00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:39.159 Apparently this aid harassed a woman, made graphic sexual overtones, 12 00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:42.880 then criticized her job performance. When she refused him. She 13 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:45.920 ended up quitting and getting almost three hundred thousand dollars 14 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.799 after the lawyers got involved. And I guess he was 15 00:00:48.799 --> 00:00:51.280 supposed to handle it differently. I don't know. Should he 16 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:54.759 have to take the fall for something another dude did 17 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:59.119 at his office? I don't know, but he is on 18 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:02.880 the shortlist to be a Calmalist running mate. All right, 19 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.280 I am going to your social media, my social media 20 00:01:06.359 --> 00:01:08.400 to answer your questions. Your DMS if you'd like to 21 00:01:08.439 --> 00:01:10.719 send me one. The handle is at d R Wendy 22 00:01:10.760 --> 00:01:14.560 Walsh at doctor Wendy Walsh and a reminder. I'm not 23 00:01:14.599 --> 00:01:17.680 a therapist. I'm a psychology professor, but I'm obsessed with 24 00:01:17.719 --> 00:01:20.200 the science of love. I've written three books on relationships, 25 00:01:20.280 --> 00:01:23.719 did a dissertation on attachment theory, and well I learned 26 00:01:24.040 --> 00:01:26.519 from a lot of life experience at a lot of wisdom. 27 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:29.719 All right, here we go, let me open this up. Hey, 28 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:32.760 doctor Wendy says this listener. I've been dating a new 29 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:35.920 guy for two months. We've gone on six dates, but 30 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:40.079 they were all in the evening. Is this a sign 31 00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:44.959 that he's only after one thing? Hmm? So because they're 32 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.359 in the evening. Most people complain that they don't don't 33 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:51.079 get taken out on a proper date in the evening. 34 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:54.640 Sounds like this guy is doing a proper courtship. Now, 35 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:59.200 six dates all evening. You didn't tell me whether you 36 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:01.439 gave him the one you think he's after. I don't 37 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:06.439 know so. And also have you suggested, you know, let's 38 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:08.159 go see a matinee or let's go have a picnic 39 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:10.000 in the bark during the day or let's go to 40 00:02:10.039 --> 00:02:12.319 the farmer's market, or let's walk at the beach in 41 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.560 the day. Whatever. Have you suggested that and he's turned 42 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:18.360 you down, because that would be a telling piece of information. 43 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:22.759 He could be just going slowly. He could be just formal. 44 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:25.479 But on the other hand, I don't know what he's 45 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:27.439 doing at the end of those dates. And if he's 46 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:31.960 being you know, very sexual with you and you're rebuffing him, 47 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:34.960 I don't know. Maybe maybe, but most guys don't hang 48 00:02:35.000 --> 00:02:37.560 in there for six full dates that he's paying for 49 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:41.520 if all he's wanting is sex, because it's so easy 50 00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:44.800 to get free sex. Right now, just saying so, I 51 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:48.199 think he's just being formal, that's my guess, but try 52 00:02:48.280 --> 00:02:52.639 asking him. All right, moving on, Hey, doctor Wendy, I've 53 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:55.280 been in a situation ship for two years. If you 54 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:57.520 guys don't know what a situationship is, it is a 55 00:02:57.560 --> 00:02:59.960 relationship where you're having sex. Is supposed to be no 56 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:05.080 strings attached, it does It's undefined, right, Nobody has had 57 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:09.680 the conversation of what are we And the fact that 58 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:12.919 you've I've just read the first sentence. I have been 59 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:18.439 in a situationship for two years. Two years in an 60 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:24.360 undefined relationship sharing. This is a female sharing your eggs, 61 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:31.960 your bloodstream, risking your heart for two years, and then 62 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:36.280 she puts in brackets. I was hoping for change, as 63 00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:38.759 if change is something that just comes down from the 64 00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:44.319 heavens and all of a sudden, somebody anoints you as girlfriend. No, 65 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:47.159 do you know who gets to be a girlfriend? The 66 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:50.400 one who asks for it, the one who learns how 67 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:54.719 to negotiate commitment. And two years into it, you've lost 68 00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:59.520 a lot of your negotiating power. That's the problem. So 69 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:02.240 she can take though. He gave me the bare minimum 70 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:05.319 for too long. So I started dating someone else. Wait, 71 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:08.639 you were giving him sexual exclusivity in a situationship with 72 00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:12.319 no name. Okay, so you started dating someone else. Now 73 00:04:12.360 --> 00:04:15.240 he's actually putting in an effort. Is this a trick 74 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:18.360 or should I give him all my attention again? You 75 00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:21.079 need to stop playing games. You need to just talk 76 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:23.680 to him about what are we do You want to 77 00:04:23.680 --> 00:04:26.480 be exclusive? If not, I'm out. I've done my two 78 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:29.759 years time. That's all you need to do. Talk about 79 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:32.759 these things. Don't write me, I mean do write me. 80 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:34.920 I'm happy to weigh in, but you need to talk 81 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:40.360 to him about it. Wow, is this just a trick 82 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:42.639 or should I give him my attention again? A trick? 83 00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:48.079 He's realizing he's got competition, so he's trying a little harder. 84 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.399 That's all that is. So the question is he gonna 85 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:53.519 try hard enough to say yes when you say we 86 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:57.560 need to be exclusive, you gotta have the conversation. Be brave, 87 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:02.240 somebody be brave. O. Hey, moving along, Hey, doctor Wendy. 88 00:05:02.319 --> 00:05:04.120 I matched with a woman on a dating site and 89 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:06.800 we had a really good conversation on the phone. We 90 00:05:06.879 --> 00:05:09.319 haven't met in person, but she's told me she already 91 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:12.279 deleted her app. How do I tell her to slow 92 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:17.240 down without her thinking I'm not interested? You say slow down? 93 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:22.079 You literally say what You're off the app? Like I'm 94 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:25.480 the one for you? You say that we haven't even met. 95 00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:29.920 And also, dude, that's a huge red flag. I mean, 96 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:33.800 that's somebody with an attachment style, like, Oh, I can't 97 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:37.079 believe you have one phone conversation with somebody. You go, 98 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:39.639 I'm getting off the app. You sound perfect. Oh, dear, 99 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:42.120 I would worry. I don't think i'd want to meet 100 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:45.519 her in person, maybe even Ghoster. No, don't ghost her. 101 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:47.560 You had a conversation. You're going to tell her, maybe 102 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:54.079 text her move on, Dear doctor, Wendy, my boyfriend isn't 103 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:58.759 as motivated when it comes to career goals and passion projects. 104 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:02.120 This is a turn enough for me. I don't think 105 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:05.560 it's something he will change. Can I grow to not 106 00:06:05.680 --> 00:06:09.199 be bothered by this? Or are we not compatible? We 107 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:13.000 have been together for four years, all right? You are 108 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:17.920 speaking with the voice of somebody who has an attachment 109 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:22.800 to somebody but is not looking towards having the same 110 00:06:22.920 --> 00:06:24.759 kind of future and future goals. 111 00:06:25.680 --> 00:06:25.879 You know. 112 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:28.680 I have a friend who's a marriage and family therapist, 113 00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:30.160 and she once told me. I said, what is the 114 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:33.600 most common conflict that couples come into your practice with? 115 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:37.079 And she said, it doesn't matter what it is, it 116 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:41.560 never changes. They learn to manage it, but it never 117 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:45.639 gets resolved. There's always this one thing, and I teach 118 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:49.120 them skills to manage it. So if she were talking, 119 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:52.240 she might say, yeah, you can learn skills to not 120 00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:55.920 be so bothered by it. But if it's about career goals, 121 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:59.639 if it's about income, and you've been together four years, 122 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:01.759 you didn't say how old you are, so I don't 123 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:05.000 really know, Like if you're planning on having a family 124 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:08.959 because your financial needs are going to change, and then 125 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:13.240 this will become a really big problem for you. So again, 126 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:17.079 it's not your job to drag that horse to water, 127 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:20.800 lay out the trough of water. If he doesn't drink, 128 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:23.319 then you've got to make a decision to move on 129 00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:27.439 or not. Can't change him. You can change your reaction 130 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:30.920 to him, but you can't change him, right, that's the 131 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:34.800 important thing. And I want you to think about how 132 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:38.439 important this career goal thing is now compared to how 133 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:40.759 it's going to be in the future, and what would 134 00:07:40.800 --> 00:07:45.959 happen if you sounds like you're very ambitious and if 135 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:47.879 you start getting a bunch of promotions and start making 136 00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:51.120 more money, you will outgrow him so fast. So you 137 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:53.199 got to talk to him about it, not try to 138 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:56.160 change him and get him to be more ambitious, but 139 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.560 talk about how you can live with this together or 140 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.120 what's going to happen in the future. All right, when 141 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:03.680 we come back, I will continue to answer your social 142 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:06.399 media questions. Send me a DM on Instagram. It is 143 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:10.199 at doctor Wendy Walsh. At Dr Wendy Walsh, you are 144 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:12.839 listening to the Dr Wendy Walsh show on KFI AM 145 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:15.439 six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. 146 00:08:16.600 --> 00:08:20.800 You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI 147 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:21.959 AM six forty. 148 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:26.000 Hef I Am six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh 149 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:28.680 with you. This is the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show. I'm 150 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:32.600 answering your questions. Reminder, I'm a psychology professor, not a therapist. 151 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:36.320 But I've got opinions and I've got life experience, and 152 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:40.559 I'm happy to weigh in on your relationships. Okay, go 153 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:42.360 into Instagram if you want to send me a DM. 154 00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:46.279 It's at Dr Wendy Walsh at doctor Wendy Walsh. All right, 155 00:08:46.320 --> 00:08:49.679 Dear Doctor Wendy. Every time my boyfriend has a night 156 00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:54.039 out with the boys, Instagram friends go up. Give me 157 00:08:54.120 --> 00:09:00.399 his Instagram friends. He always gains about twenty followers, follows 158 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:03.960 them back. He doesn't give out his socials to strangers 159 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:07.679 when he's out with me. Is this a red flag? 160 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:12.120 This is a flaming light on fire red flag. I 161 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:15.000 don't know if you know this, but people use Instagram 162 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.360 as a dating app. Now. They get into each other's dms. 163 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:21.480 Even Simone Biles found her husband by sending him a 164 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:26.639 DM on Instagram. So he goes out with the boys, 165 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:29.879 and all of a sudden, he's following twenty more people. 166 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:34.519 I guess the question is are they women? Right? So, 167 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:39.279 you know, like everything else, I would always suggest talking 168 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:41.200 about it first, but then you're gonna hear a bunch 169 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:42.639 of blah blah blah. What do you mean? Why are 170 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:44.799 you looking at my Instagram? And who cares? People? Just 171 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:49.600 ask me? Ah right, But it's telling you something. It's 172 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:53.120 telling you that he's out there, he's social, he's meeting people, 173 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:57.360 he's building up his friend bank in case he wants 174 00:09:57.399 --> 00:10:02.279 to leave. That's what I'm saying, all right, Dear doctor Wendy, 175 00:10:03.039 --> 00:10:07.000 My ex and I were so perfect for each other. Oh, 176 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:10.399 looking back with rose colored glasses. Uh Oh. Then she 177 00:10:10.519 --> 00:10:15.320 says I got pregnant and he wasn't ready for a child. 178 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:20.279 I got an abortion although I didn't want one. Oh, 179 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:25.879 and now I can't get past blaming him. I still 180 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:28.720 love him, but I feel such a deep loss, and 181 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:33.720 I blame him. Can we still make it work? All right? 182 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:35.480 I have a whole bunch of questions here. First of all, 183 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:38.279 you refer to this person as your ex, my ex 184 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:40.879 and I were so perfect for each other. So that's 185 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:45.039 past tense, and now you're suddenly saying I still love him, 186 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:48.120 but i'm mad at him. Can we still make it work? 187 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:50.960 First of all, no one should make you do something 188 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.559 with your body that you don't want to do, so 189 00:10:54.519 --> 00:10:57.080 I'm so sorry that you made that choice based on 190 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:00.639 his pressure. I think what you are thinking is, well, 191 00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:04.159 I'll get an abortion because he's not ready yet. But 192 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:07.000 once I do that and he sees that I really 193 00:11:07.039 --> 00:11:09.440 love him and I'll do anything he says, then he'll 194 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:11.360 turn around and love me, and then we can have 195 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:16.879 our love baby together and he'll be ready. No, if 196 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:18.759 he said he's not ready for a kid, maybe he's 197 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:21.639 also not ready for you. And I don't understand. Are 198 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:25.679 you even talking to him right now? I will say this, 199 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:29.960 you need to go see a licensed therapist. These feelings, 200 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:35.559 these tender, painful feelings, need an ally to help you 201 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:39.720 work through them, because yeah, you're feeling a feeling of 202 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:43.559 deep loss and you're angry with him, but yet at 203 00:11:43.559 --> 00:11:46.919 the same time, you still love him. Your therapist can 204 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:49.519 help you make sense of those feelings so that you 205 00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:52.320 can work through them. And if you're asking me, can 206 00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:54.879 we still make it work? I guess my question is 207 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:57.519 are you even talking or is this fantasy in your head? 208 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:04.200 I don't know. Oh, good luck, baby girl. Alrighty uh hey, 209 00:12:04.240 --> 00:12:07.440 doctor Wendy says this person. I'm a sucker for love, 210 00:12:07.559 --> 00:12:09.879 and I always get wrapped up in the honeymoon phase 211 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:13.120 and then I hurt my own feelings. How can I 212 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:16.320 slow my heart down? Well, first of all, it's not 213 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:19.720 your heart, it's your head. And you have a model 214 00:12:19.759 --> 00:12:23.720 for love that has a little bit of anxiety attached 215 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:26.279 to it, like an anxious attachment style. So you want 216 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:28.919 to become immeshed with somebody really fast. There are some 217 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:33.320 people that just want to become completely fused at the beginning, 218 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:38.279 because if they can do that, then in their mind, 219 00:12:38.919 --> 00:12:43.320 they won't be abandoned, right, They can stick together like glue. 220 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:46.639 So the answer, of course, is to work on your 221 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:51.440 feelings of anxiety before you meet people, to understand that 222 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:54.600 there is a gentle pace and if you find yourself 223 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:56.639 you know like, some people will say, well, I will 224 00:12:56.720 --> 00:12:59.200 just take it slower, I will call them less often, 225 00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:01.440 I will make myself not to see them so often. 226 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:04.279 All those behavior is great, but if it doesn't change 227 00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:06.279 the feelings underneath it. In other words, if you're still 228 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:09.320 dreaming about them, thinking about them, counting the minutes between 229 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.360 the calls, you're still in your place of anxiety. So 230 00:13:13.399 --> 00:13:16.399 it's about learning, usually with a therapist. That's how I 231 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:19.320 work through my anxious attachment style. There's a way to 232 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:25.759 learn to know that it's okay to wait, that you're 233 00:13:25.799 --> 00:13:28.639 a good person, you're a lovable person, and the right 234 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:32.399 person in time will show up at the right time, 235 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:35.399 and that you can have the correct pace, and then 236 00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:40.000 you won't hurt your own feelings. As you say, all right, 237 00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:42.559 dear doctor Wendy, My girlfriend claims to love me, but 238 00:13:42.679 --> 00:13:46.200 her actions tell me she doesn't like me. It's hard 239 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:48.799 to explain, but she ruins my special moments and puts 240 00:13:48.799 --> 00:13:51.639 me down at every chance she gets. So that's insecurity 241 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:53.559 on her side. By the way, when somebody puts the 242 00:13:53.600 --> 00:13:57.120 other person down, it's because they're insecure. Then you say, 243 00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:00.919 I love her, but I told her leave me. If 244 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:03.720 she doesn't like me as a person, she won't admit 245 00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:06.919 to not liking me. Is it possible for someone to 246 00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:09.360 want to stay in a relationship with someone they don't like? 247 00:14:09.879 --> 00:14:12.759 If so, why do people stay in a relationship? You know, 248 00:14:12.799 --> 00:14:14.720 I don't think you're asking me about her, You're asking 249 00:14:14.799 --> 00:14:17.440 me about yourself because you don't really like her. How 250 00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:20.120 can you like somebody who puts you down every chance 251 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:24.639 she gets? And really the question is why are you staying? Right? 252 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:27.960 And again, like I said at the beginning of the show, 253 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:30.960 a lot of this goes back to what happened in 254 00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:34.720 early childhood and your model for love that you can 255 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:38.440 peel away all those layers working with a clinical therapist. 256 00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:43.879 But honestly, it's not about finding happiness. Love is about 257 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:47.720 finding the familiar. And until we change our model for love, 258 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:52.600 we won't find a happy relationship. I don't know why 259 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.679 you'd stay with somebody who puts you down all the time. Alrighty, 260 00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:58.279 if you want to send me a DM for the 261 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:01.279 future or anytime you can, the handle everywhere is at 262 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:05.399 doctor Wendy Walsh when we come back. In my Patreon group, 263 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:08.320 one of the followers, one of the members of our 264 00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:12.279 group suggested that we all watch this really interesting documentary 265 00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:17.559 on YouTube called Empty Love. I was fascinated with this. 266 00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:20.399 You should watch it Empty Love when we come back. 267 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:23.600 I've got the producer director of Empty Love. You are 268 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:26.279 listening to The Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM 269 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:29.120 six forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio App. 270 00:15:29.639 --> 00:15:33.960 You're listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI 271 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:35.000 AM six forty. 272 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:38.600 Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show and KFI 273 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:42.960 AM six forty. We are live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. 274 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:47.120 My guest is someone I uh well, I am very 275 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:49.759 proud to say. I know. I like to think when 276 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:52.039 I find someone who's a little younger than me, who 277 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.200 seems to be saying the same message that I've been 278 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:57.480 saying for three decades, that I have passed the baton. 279 00:15:58.000 --> 00:15:59.519 Of course, she didn't know who I was, or the 280 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:02.159 fact that I've set it for three decades. I'd like 281 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:06.000 to welcome Lauren Southern. She's a Canadian journalist, author, and 282 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:11.840 documentary filmmaker, best known for film's Farmlands, Borderless, and most recently, Crossfire. 283 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:15.159 But the one I want to talk about tonight is 284 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:19.919 called Empty Love, thought provoking exploration of modern romance in 285 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:23.799 the digital age. Welcome Lauren Southern. Good to have you here. 286 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:27.000 Thank you so much for having me. 287 00:16:27.480 --> 00:16:30.840 So let's start with the why of all the topics 288 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:32.919 you've delved into, and there's quite a range of them. 289 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:36.879 Why did you decide to make a documentary about our 290 00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.639 love lives? And why did you call it empty Love? 291 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:45.039 Well, all the topics that I pick tend to be 292 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:48.360 things I see going on around me in the real world. 293 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.600 You know, there's a lot of cultural or nonsense going 294 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:53.320 on in the Internet, but I think a lot of 295 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.600 it is actually motivated by people's relationships. 296 00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:58.480 When you've got. 297 00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:01.240 A lot of individuals who are in their love life, 298 00:17:01.320 --> 00:17:04.440 who have a lot of pain from rejection, divorce, it 299 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:08.680 manifests in this explosion of content that we're seeing from 300 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:12.839 the red tailed manosphere to extremist feminist content. I'm sure 301 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:16.000 you've seen shows like Fresh and Fit or the Whatever podcasts, 302 00:17:16.359 --> 00:17:19.759 and you're seeing these very absurd caricatures of men and 303 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:23.640 women being portrayed online. All women are gold digging whorees. 304 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:26.119 I'm sure you've seen those takes on TikTok and Twitter. 305 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:30.359 All men are rapists or you know, abusers, And I 306 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:33.799 think this is a manifestation of a collective difficulty that 307 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.680 everyone is having in making relationships work. And I'm sure 308 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:38.160 we'll get. 309 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:40.200 Into the many reasons why that is. 310 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:42.599 Yeah, So let's talk about some of the reasons. I 311 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:46.799 will start with my knowledge of evolutionary psychology. So up 312 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:49.400 until about you know, one hundred and fifty years ago, 313 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:52.680 maybe one hundred years ago, at least in our anthropological past, 314 00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:56.559 we never laid eyes on more than about you know, 315 00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:59.039 one hundred and two hundred humans in our entire lifespan. 316 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:03.079 And anybody we had sex with was probably somebody we knew. 317 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:05.680 They were a third cousin, they were a friendly tribe 318 00:18:05.759 --> 00:18:09.400 member from next door. Everybody was vetted by the tribe, 319 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:13.240 and today we have potential new mates, thousands of them, 320 00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:16.960 one thumb swipe away. We live in urban centers where 321 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:20.480 we lay eyes on thousands of people weekly, and as 322 00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:23.880 a result, I feel like our brains, our ancient brains, 323 00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:27.519 are highly confused. What are some of the issues that 324 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:28.279 you're seeing. 325 00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:31.839 Yeah, I think there. 326 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:33.960 I mean, we spoke a lot in the film about 327 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:37.559 this paralysis of choice that has occurred as a result 328 00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:42.160 of apps like Tinder, hinge, all these new dating mechanisms 329 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:45.720 that have appeared, and also the comparison we see online 330 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:49.039 all the time, people posting their happy relationships on Instagram, 331 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:51.359 I'm on a boat today with my partner. I've got it, 332 00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:52.200 even richer. 333 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:53.640 Partner that's got me on a private check. 334 00:18:54.039 --> 00:18:56.079 And everyone is under the impression that that is like 335 00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:58.960 right in front of them, just within their reach if 336 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:01.200 they can find the right person, and so it's all 337 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:04.240 about trading up to the next best thing. I was 338 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:07.160 just reading some data on NBC News saying that around 339 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:11.000 sixty percent of Tinder users are already in a relationship, 340 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:13.119 and this is something I've seen in my own life 341 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:13.599 as well. 342 00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:15.319 Most of the people, because. 343 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:17.640 I'm coming on thirty here, most of my friends are married, 344 00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:21.200 you know, dating at least, And most of the people 345 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:24.319 I know who are downloading Tinder are doing it to 346 00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:27.839 check if their partners are on it. They're swiping through 347 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:30.079 to find if they can see an obscured photo of 348 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:32.559 their husband or something, if they're in a fight, or 349 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:35.680 they're living separately because they're in therapy, and a lot 350 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:38.720 of times they're finding them there. And this can be 351 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:40.160 scary for people who are. 352 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:42.000 Single using these apps. I know I have. 353 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:46.039 My assistant is twenty two years old, and we talk 354 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:49.440 about this. She just uninstalled the apps herself because she's like, man, 355 00:19:49.519 --> 00:19:52.759 it's just rough out there. And when I see my 356 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:55.599 friend's husbands or ex husbands that are using the app 357 00:19:55.640 --> 00:19:58.680 posting single, not posting that they have kids, or putting 358 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:02.000 I want to have kids one day, I think that 359 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.319 would be a terrifying prospect to be spending time, you know, 360 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.559 weeks going out with this person to discover they have 361 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:13.039 a wife and three kids. Maybe even never discover that. Right, 362 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:16.200 But this is how people are being taught to approach 363 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.839 relationships today. It's all about what can I gain from it, 364 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:24.640 and not about the loyalty aspect or like you were saying, 365 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:26.880 it's not with people who have been heavily vetted by 366 00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:30.240 their community. If you're in a small town, there's not 367 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:32.440 much option, and if you're in a city, everyone's a 368 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:33.720 little anonymous in a city. 369 00:20:33.799 --> 00:20:37.039 Right, Yes, it's the anonymity that's an issue. And also 370 00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:39.680 you mentioned paradox of choice. This is a very real 371 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:43.720 psychological phenomenon. When the human brain is presented with too 372 00:20:43.839 --> 00:20:47.359 much choice, it actually has trouble making a choice. We 373 00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:50.799 like shortcuts to choice, we like fewer choices, and so 374 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:53.119 it has trouble making a choice. And when it does 375 00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:57.039 make a choice, as you alluded to, we don't value 376 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:00.200 that choice as much. We actually think, well, maybe there 377 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:02.680 was a bigger, better deal that we missed, and so 378 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:05.559 having too much choice. In fact, I often suggest that 379 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:07.799 when people do use the dating apps, that they never 380 00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:10.519 match with more than two people at once and just 381 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:12.319 choose one or the other and let it ride for 382 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:14.279 a bit and see what's what, instead of having their 383 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:18.440 box filled with messages from ten or twenty people. So 384 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:22.359 you mentioned paradox of choice, you mentioned the digital age, 385 00:21:22.599 --> 00:21:26.200 but underlying this I'm hearing something else, especially when you're 386 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:29.160 talking about spouse is going on to see if their 387 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:32.079 spouse is on there, or to see if their spouse 388 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:36.359 rates like the other choices out there. Are we missing 389 00:21:36.440 --> 00:21:41.279 basic trust? Are we missing a basic sense of security 390 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:44.000 that normally would come from a relationship. 391 00:21:46.599 --> 00:21:47.200 Oh? 392 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:47.920 Absolutely. 393 00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:50.200 And you know what's strange as well, is at the 394 00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:53.240 very beginning of the movie I published as Anti Love, 395 00:21:54.160 --> 00:21:57.960 there's a gentleman I'm interviewing and he states, I wear 396 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:00.480 a wedding ring everywhere I go. When I go of bars, 397 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.759 I put on a wedding ring because women like married 398 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.200 men better. And I thought that was such a bizarre thing. 399 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:12.279 People are almost whenever you see someone who is over 400 00:22:12.319 --> 00:22:15.599 the age of thirty. The first question that everyone around 401 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:16.680