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True Murder with your 31 00:01:34.920 --> 00:01:48.920 host journalist and author Dan Zupansky, Good Evening. 32 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:54.599 Hiring used to be hard multiple job sites, stacks of resumes, 33 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:58.439 a confusing review process, but today hiring can be easy 34 00:01:58.599 --> 00:02:00.159 and you only have to go to one place to 35 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:05.920 get it done. ZipRecruiter dot com slash murder. ZipRecruiter sends 36 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:08.439 your job to over one hundred of the web's leading 37 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:11.719 job boards, but they don't stop there. With their powerful 38 00:02:11.719 --> 00:02:15.439 matching technology, ZipRecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people 39 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:18.240 with the right experience and invites them to apply to 40 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:22.520 your job. 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They echo in the news and in 51 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:12.319 public consciousness, but most people have never heard of Israel Keys, 52 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:16.080 one of the most ambitious and terrifying serial killers in 53 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:21.840 modern history. The FBI considered his behavior unprecedented. Described by 54 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:25.240 a prose prosecutor as a force of pure evil, Keys 55 00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:27.960 was a predator who struck all over the United States. 56 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:32.520 He buried kill kits, cash weapons, and body disposal tools 57 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:36.000 in remote locations across the country. Over the course of 58 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:39.080 fourteen years. Keys would fly to a city, rent a car, 59 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:42.080 and drive thousands of miles in order to use his kits. 60 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:45.759 He would break into a stranger's house, abduct his victims 61 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:48.280 in broad daylight, and kill and dispose of them in 62 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:51.240 mere hours, and then he would return home to Alaska, 63 00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:54.879 resuming life as a quiet, reliable construction worker devoted to 64 00:03:54.919 --> 00:03:59.319 his only daughter. When journalist Moumene Callahan first heard about 65 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:03.039 Israel Keys twenty twelve, she was captivated by how a 66 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:06.319 killer of this magnitude could go undetected by law enforcement 67 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:09.599 for over a decade, and so began a project that 68 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:13.240 consumed her for the next several years, uncovering the true 69 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:17.399 story behind how the FBI ultimately caught Israel Keys, and 70 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:19.720 trying to understand what it means for a killer like 71 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:23.399 Keys to exist, a killer who left the path of monstrous, 72 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:27.040 randomly committed crimes in his wake, many of which remain 73 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:31.519 unsolved to this day. American Predator is the ambitious culmination 74 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:34.120 of years of interviews with key figures in law enforcement 75 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:38.879 and in Key's life, and research uncovered from classified FBI files. 76 00:04:39.639 --> 00:04:43.000 Callahan takes us on a journey into the chilling, nightmarish 77 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:46.040 mind of a relentless killer and to the limitations of 78 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:49.560 traditional law enforcement. The book they were featuring this evening 79 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:53.120 is American Predator, The Hunt for the most meticulous serial 80 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:55.879 killer of the twenty first century, With my special guest, 81 00:04:55.959 --> 00:05:00.319 journalist and author Maureen Callahan. Welcome to the program, and 82 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:05.199 thank you very much for greening this interview. Maureen Callahan, Hi, 83 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:08.600 thank you so much for having me. Thank you so 84 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:11.600 much for joining us on this program. This is going 85 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:16.399 to be an incredible interview about a truly incredible book 86 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:21.399 about a truly incredible serial killer. We just mention it 87 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:25.079 in the opening. Tell us how you came to learn 88 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:28.480 about this case and why it was important for you 89 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:30.879 to write this book. Tell us about that decision. 90 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:35.920 Well, I first came across this case in early December 91 00:05:35.920 --> 00:05:43.120 twenty twelve. It was an article about a serial killer 92 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.399 the likes of which d FBI had never seen before. 93 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:51.759 I got to the second paragraph, which detailed e modus 94 00:05:51.839 --> 00:06:00.879 operandi that was so astonishing and sophisticated yet simple. I 95 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:05.160 called Israel Keys an analog killer in a digital age, 96 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:10.120 which helped him evade capture for at least fourteen years, 97 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:15.160 if not longer. The mo was as you described in 98 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:18.439 your introduction, and I'm certainly happy to delve deeper into that. 99 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:22.480 But the other thing that made it clear that this 100 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:27.279 was a story that needed to be dug into and 101 00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:33.560 really explored was the admission that the FBI had kept 102 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:40.279 this individual existence secret from the American public for the 103 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:44.079 nine months that they had had him in custody, and 104 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:51.639 given that his killing spree extended all over the United States, 105 00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:58.120 that seemed not in the public interest. And so that 106 00:06:58.319 --> 00:07:02.040 was going to be at at least one mystery to explore. 107 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:05.360 But it was clear that there would be multiple mysteries 108 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:11.279 to explore. And as I researched and reported year after year, 109 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:15.720 I just I could never have expected the things that 110 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:16.399 I discovered. 111 00:07:18.439 --> 00:07:23.439 Yeah, certainly, absolutely. Now you start American Predator with a 112 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.399 victim named Samantha Konig, which is eighteen years old, and 113 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:30.519 she's working at this little coffee shack we call a kiosk. 114 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:36.680 This is February two thousand and twelve. Tell us about 115 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:40.920 the Samantha Koenig and why she's working, and tell us 116 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:45.000 about this kiosk and this business and what happens that night. 117 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:52.079 So the evening of February first, twenty twelve, an eighteen 118 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:56.959 year old girl named Samantha Koenig is closing up her 119 00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:01.360 coffee kiosk, the kiosk where she worked in Anchorage, Alaska. 120 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:04.839 One of the things to know is that in Anchorage, 121 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:10.279 these coffee kiosks are extremely common. They're like little shacks 122 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:15.759 almost they have but the sides of roads. Samantha's was 123 00:08:17.199 --> 00:08:21.040 right next to a very well trafficked road and sat 124 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:24.560 in a parking lot right near a big box gym. 125 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:27.480 The other thing to know is that the culture and 126 00:08:27.600 --> 00:08:31.160 anchorage is such that these teenage girls are often working 127 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:39.720 these kiosks alone. Samantha disappears that night. The next morning, 128 00:08:40.279 --> 00:08:46.120 she's reported missing. The next morning when the next young 129 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:48.759 woman comes in to open the kiosk, which has been locked, 130 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:51.240 but she sees that all of the cash and the 131 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:55.279 register is missing. It's a little bit messy in there. 132 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:57.559 Samantha is a meat freak. She is known to clean 133 00:08:57.600 --> 00:09:05.840 up meticulously. The evening before, however, her boyfriend had received 134 00:09:06.039 --> 00:09:09.879 text messages from Samantha's phone in which she indicated that 135 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:12.840 she was very upset with him. She knew exactly what 136 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:15.399 he had been up to, and she was taking off 137 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:20.039 for a few days with some of her friends. So initially, 138 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:25.000 law enforcement is looking at this as a potential runaway scenario. 139 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:33.600 It's compounded by Samantha's history. She had an unstable upbringing. 140 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:40.120 She had had her own issues with substances. They didn't 141 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:44.080 law enforcement didn't look at well. They made several mistakes, 142 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:46.360 one of which is they never taped off that scene. 143 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:49.559 They didn't treat it as a crime scene. They sort 144 00:09:49.600 --> 00:09:53.000 of made their assumptions, and so that kiosk and its 145 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:57.919 surrounding areas were contaminated. They did not get a look 146 00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:02.000 at the surveillance video from inside the kiosk until later 147 00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:06.039 that evening, so it's almost twenty four hours. And once 148 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:11.759 they do, they see a figure outside ordering a coffee, 149 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:15.279 a man who looks to be tall. A few minutes 150 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:20.559 go by, and suddenly he leaps in through the kiosk's window. 151 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:22.639 And when I say leap, and you can see the 152 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:27.960 surveillance video online, he barks his body like a cheetah 153 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:34.600 and he pounces in there. What confound investigators is that 154 00:10:34.679 --> 00:10:39.960 they spend another eleven minutes in that kiosk before leaving. 155 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:44.000 So one of them, in particular, a very very seasoned investigator, 156 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:48.240 is thinking to himself, these two are in there for 157 00:10:48.360 --> 00:10:52.799 seventeen minutes, what on earth could they possibly be talking about. 158 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:57.279 The next theory becomes the accomplished theory that Samantha is 159 00:10:57.320 --> 00:11:02.000 in on her disappearance with an unknown own individual for 160 00:11:02.279 --> 00:11:09.639 money later, as weeks go by, and a ransom note 161 00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:15.720 is discovered which contained the photo of Samantha made up, hair, 162 00:11:15.799 --> 00:11:22.080 braided eyes wide open, facing the camera, a newspaper a 163 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:26.039 proof of life photo a newspaper dated weeks after her disappearance. 164 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:31.000 The investigators are again confounded. All but one of them 165 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:35.879 thinks that Samantha is alive. The FBI at this point 166 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:38.480 is involved, and they bring in an expert in snuff films. 167 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:45.919 That expert cannot tell and it's not until Samantha's ATM 168 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:49.399 card begins pinging in the lower forty eight. The FBI 169 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:53.919 now has a tracker on it that a man named 170 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:56.480 Israel Keys is arrested on the side of the road 171 00:11:56.720 --> 00:12:00.960 in Texas, and in his car they find Samantha's ATM 172 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:07.360 card and her cell phones. Israel Keys previously unknown to 173 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.559 law enforcement in any capacity, and he's arrested and he's 174 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:12.159 not talking. 175 00:12:16.159 --> 00:12:22.279 You talk about the arrest of Israel Keys, but you 176 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:27.120 introduce very crucial characters in this story, and that being 177 00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:32.159 FBI agent FBI Steve Pain, And you talk about the 178 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:36.639 lead detective in this in Anchorage Police Department, this Monique Doll. 179 00:12:38.360 --> 00:12:43.279 You interestingly write about how Steve Pain gets involved with this, 180 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:46.559 wants to be involved with this, but of course the 181 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:50.240 jurisdiction and the ego involved with who's going to handle what? 182 00:12:51.039 --> 00:12:54.480 Tell us a little bit about this dynamic and introduce 183 00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:59.440 Steve Pain and this investigation and the team involved in 184 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:00.000 that investory. 185 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:06.639 Yeah, So initially the case is handled by the Anchorage 186 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:12.519 Police Department APD because it's designated a missing person's Mickey Dahl. 187 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:16.000 That's how she's known. Her full name is Monique Dahal 188 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:19.879 was a detective who was brand new to homicide. She 189 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:23.799 was first day and her superior thought that this would 190 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:28.759 be a good case to field train a rookie. She 191 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:33.960 came from Dea, she had ten years experience there, so 192 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:38.320 she's lead on this case. But in Anchorage, everyone knows 193 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:40.639 everyone else. It's a big city that feels like a 194 00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:45.879 small town. So law enforcement, prosecutors, defense attorneys, judges, they 195 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:50.000 all know each other. And Payne at his FBI field 196 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:52.960 office gets a call from a friend of his telling 197 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:55.639 him about this missing girl and he immediately wants to 198 00:13:55.639 --> 00:14:01.519 get involved and the word back is no, thank you, 199 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:07.720 We think we know what this is. Later that afternoon, 200 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:11.080 was there around five six Payne gets a call from 201 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:15.759 Mickey Dong and she tells him some things have changed, 202 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:18.200 can you come over? So he gets in his car 203 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:22.759 and he races over to APD and it's the surveillance video. 204 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:27.759 Kanan is looking at it, Doll is looking at it, 205 00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:32.320 and just well, he's the investigator who had the seventeen 206 00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:39.440 minute theory. He's an amazingly multi faceted, multi talented investigator. 207 00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:42.919 He's the US Marshals, he's swat he's got FBI clearance, 208 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:47.879 he's worked drugs, he's seen and done it all and 209 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:50.159 is relatively young by the way, I mean, this is 210 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:54.200 how talented this guy is. And he's got eyes on 211 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:58.320 the video too now. And so they are all beginning 212 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:00.720 to work together, and yet there is there is a 213 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:04.759 clashing of I don't know if I would call it egos, 214 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:08.559 but it's definitely a power struggle. Jean's got all the 215 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:11.360 resources of the FBI at his disposal to help with 216 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.559 this case. Nicky dolls on it for less than twenty 217 00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:17.919 four hours. She's a woman, she feels this is her 218 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:20.720 case and she does not want the FBI bigfooting her. 219 00:15:21.399 --> 00:15:24.600 Jeff Bell is kind of caught in the middle he's 220 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:27.120 sort of a peacemaker and always looking to mediate. He 221 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:33.200 can always see both sides. What's interesting is the team 222 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:37.759 really comes together once that atm card begins pinging in 223 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:41.720 the Southwest. It's important to realize that at this point, 224 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:48.159 Samantha has been missing for five weeks, six weeks, So 225 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:52.159 the more time that goes by, the more that they're thinking, 226 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:54.840 you know, Samantha is not going to have a good 227 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:59.879 outcome here. And what they now need to rely on 228 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:04.240 all the way up in Anchorage is a coordinated multi 229 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:09.159 jurisdictional effort among law enforcements, people that they do not 230 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:12.279 know and who may not feel the urgency of this 231 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:18.159 case because who they're being asked to chase. Their subject 232 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:24.600 is in a white male, Paul athletics, middle aged. He 233 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:28.039 is driving the most commonly rented car in the United 234 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:32.039 States of America. They can't pinpoint his location, he's moving 235 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:39.240 too far, too fast. Find him somehow, and it's the 236 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:44.399 Texas Rangers, and in particular a ranger named Steve Rayburn 237 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:48.600 and a corporal named Brian Henry, who take this vague 238 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:53.960 information and they consolidate it and the hand Rayburn is 239 00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:57.399 handwalking it to everyone. He can look for this vehicle. 240 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:02.399 Let's canvas. Particularly hotel, the area in which the ATM 241 00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:05.839 card is being used seems to be, you know, more 242 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:08.880 and more concentrated. One of the analysts on this case 243 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:14.200 called it nesting. The subject was nesting. And they put 244 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:20.119 eyes on a rental vehicle that's parked in a complex 245 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:23.720 that has three hotels, so he's talking hundreds and hundreds 246 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:27.799 of rooms, and they look at where this cars parked. 247 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.200 One of the investigators looks up and they see a 248 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:36.039 white male two stories above on a balcony looking directly 249 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:38.480 down at that car, and they put eyes on him, 250 00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:44.640 and they follow this car, and Henry is two cars 251 00:17:44.680 --> 00:17:47.599 behind this guy as he's heading toward Route fifty nine 252 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:51.720 like he's about to get away, and he's he can't, 253 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:53.920 he can't pull him over. He has no reason, and 254 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:59.880 he's getting he's getting orders from Rayburn over the radio. 255 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:03.119 Find a reason, find a reason to pull him over. 256 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.400 And he pulls out his radar gun and this vehicle 257 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.319 goes two miles over the speed limit. He puts on 258 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.920 his lights and to his amazement, this rental car pulls 259 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.079 over to the side of the road, and when he 260 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:21.559 approaches the car and he says, where are you from? 261 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:26.240 And the man says Alaska. The way Henry described it, 262 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:29.880 his heart stops because his twenty years in law enforcement, 263 00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:33.359 he had never pulled over anyone from the state of Alaska. 264 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:39.319 And right then they knew, what. 265 00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.759 Do they find in his possession? Regarding that ATM card? 266 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.519 What else do they find in that Vehicle's. 267 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:50.599 Very interesting because by now, so Rayburn comes on the 268 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:54.480 scene and with him is an FBI field agent, Special 269 00:18:54.519 --> 00:19:00.319 Agent deb Ganaway. So they come on the scene and 270 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:07.519 Ganaway immediately calls Steve Rayburn. Sorry, Steve's pain in Anchorage. 271 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:10.799 She says, listen, we've pulled over a suspect in your case. 272 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:15.279 And Paine says, what do you have on him? What 273 00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:17.279 do you have to pull him over? And she says 274 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:20.680 not a lot. Now this flags for pain because he's 275 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:23.359 worried about fruit as a poison tree. Right if they 276 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:26.559 after a search that's unwarranted, no matter what they find 277 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:29.279 in his possession, can get thrown out and keys can walk. 278 00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:33.440 Danaway says to him, listen, I want you to understand 279 00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:36.319 you should know something. In Texas we have an exemption 280 00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:39.799 and if we think that there is probable cause to 281 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:44.079 search someone's vehicle. We can do it. 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He void whereby lost they terms 318 00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:46.359 conditions eighteen plus. 319 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:54.440 He won't say anything, and raver In turns to Corporal 320 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:57.240 Henry because he wants him to have the honors of 321 00:21:57.440 --> 00:21:59.880 bringing him into custody, and he says, hook him up 322 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:04.839 and they handcuff him and they take him into custody, 323 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:12.599 and in his wallet they find Samantha's ATM card with 324 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:16.079 her access code scratched into the face of it, and 325 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:20.680 they say, do you want to tell us what you're 326 00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:22.599 doing with this? And he says, I'm not telling you 327 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:29.119 or anything. Within minutes of his arrest, up an Anchorage, 328 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:32.200 Jeff Bell and Mickey Dahl are getting on a plane 329 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.440 to fly to Texas. And they get down there, and 330 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:37.759 it takes a long time to fly out of Anchorage 331 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:39.880 to anywhere in the lower forty eight. There's no such 332 00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:41.759 thing as a direct plight. You have to stop in 333 00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:44.640 Seattle and you have to lay over. So they get 334 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:47.240 there and they're exhausted, and they're hungry and they're tired, 335 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:52.279 and they are in the most high pressure interrogation they've 336 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:56.640 ever been in. And Belle gets into the room and 337 00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:58.720 the way he described it to me, he said, the 338 00:22:58.759 --> 00:23:01.400 hair's on my back stood up, like on the back 339 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.319 of my neck. They stood up. He was like, it 340 00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:06.920 was a feeling of pure evil. And I knew that 341 00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:09.079 he had Samantha, and I knew that she was dead, 342 00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:11.599 and I knew that he had done this before and 343 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:15.519 so now their priority to get keys onto a story, 344 00:23:15.640 --> 00:23:19.920 any story doesn't matter. That get him to admit some connections. 345 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:25.960 So Mickey Dahal takes the lead and she says, I 346 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:28.640 don't think that you're a monster. I think you had 347 00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:31.880 a reason for what happened, and I want to hear 348 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:37.319 it from you. And he comes in Hawes, but when 349 00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:40.960 he's really confronted with the ATM card and the cell phone, 350 00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:45.039 he says, oh, now I know how I'm involved in this, 351 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:49.440 and that's when the investigators starts revving up. They're like, okay, 352 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:55.039 here comes a story. And Key says that he's a contractor, 353 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:58.480 which they must know by now, and he had a 354 00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:03.079 client who owed him money couldn't pay, and he found 355 00:24:03.279 --> 00:24:06.440 the ATM card and the cell phone in a baggie 356 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:10.359 on his driver's seat that must have been slipped in 357 00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:13.559 through a cracked window because they must know. Also he 358 00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:16.839 smokes cigars. They searched his car, and that was the 359 00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:18.880 long and the short of it. And he otherwise does 360 00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:22.440 not know Samantha Koenig and has not heard that she's disappeared, 361 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:28.079 and can't help them. He will not say anything else, 362 00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:34.599 and Pine is back in Alaska, drawing up the strongest 363 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:38.559 federal indictment he can, which is only fraud with access device. 364 00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:42.759 That's all they've got him on that ATM card. He 365 00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:46.240 needs to get Keys back to at they can get 366 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:51.440 a full confession, and they get him back to Alaska. 367 00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:55.160 It takes a couple of weeks. In that time. By 368 00:24:55.200 --> 00:25:00.279 the way that extradition process, there is an unexplored ye 369 00:25:00.400 --> 00:25:05.519 stop which I only obtained through citing with the federal 370 00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:08.759 government and at one point suing the federal prosecutor in 371 00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:11.400 the case for a lot of things that they were 372 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:16.839 hiding regarding this case. They have an unexplained stop in 373 00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:21.519 Oklahoma City, which I can circle back to later if 374 00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:26.359 you like. But they get Keys into this room finally 375 00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:32.319 in Alaska, and Steve Pain and Jeff Bell are war 376 00:25:32.440 --> 00:25:36.240 gaming out how they are going to get a full 377 00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:39.680 confession out of Keys when they have a serious dearth 378 00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:43.200 of evidence. Because if Keys sticks to this story, as 379 00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:46.400 atlandish as it is and as clear of a lie 380 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:50.839 as it is, he's gonna walk. They don't have anything else, 381 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:57.079 and they need to figure out a way leverage this 382 00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:03.480 dearth of evidence into a full confession. And Pain explained 383 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:07.799 his approach to me, which was there are a fair 384 00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:12.680 amount of investigators who like to take in a bunch 385 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:14.920 of props still come into a. 386 00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:20.839 Room with stacks of folders and boxes and say this 387 00:26:20.920 --> 00:26:23.880 is everything we've got on you, and in fact those 388 00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:28.720 boxes are empty and the paper is blank. And Pane 389 00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:33.319 prefers a counterintuitive approach. He's a minimalist and he likes 390 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:38.240 to go in with really almost nothing and say listen, 391 00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.200 I'm not going to tell you everything that we have 392 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.960 on you, and he finds that that almost always works. 393 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:50.799 So Pain and beller are were gaming this out and 394 00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:54.880 the last minute they get a call from the federal 395 00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:59.039 prosecutor has been assigned to this case, and to their horror, 396 00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:04.079 he has another idea. And if you want to talk 397 00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:10.480 about a clash of egos, his idea is that he, 398 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:17.559 an individual with no experience with violent crime and who 399 00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:21.759 has no business in that room, is going to lead 400 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:32.079 the interrogation of Israel Kief and there's no fighting this. 401 00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:39.640