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Speaker 1: What is a Fellasi goes. I am damping that like

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coming at you with as always my certified FANTABULARUS co

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host mister Grant Hughes, a very special or unique or

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different type of podcast from US. Today it's gonna be

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Trade Dead Vibe Team because we got to keep springing

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these in here because the time of year. But we're

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going to talk about the NBA draft picks that stand

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to define or shape the twenty twenty five NBA trade deadline.

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It was basically it probably wasn't a joint effort. Grant

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came up with the concept and then we kind of

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fleshed it out from there. The prep was a joint

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effort for sure, but you were the one that made

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that idea like stick in my head, like this is

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how we're gonna frame it. And so the approach is

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like multifold and fascinating. And it's one of those things

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that I said this to you, Grant. It feels scattershot

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as we're preparing and talking about it, but I think

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it's gonna coalace into something that I mean, it is us.

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So let's say semi coherent instead of totally coherent. But

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before we dig into how we approach this and what

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this actually means, How the heck are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I just want to point out I feel like this

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what has happened with this idea and where it's gone

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is a really good summation of what I think of

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it as, Like, well, just the dynamic here, because like

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I guess I thought of it and I texted you

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about it, and I didn't really have I think it

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started as like, hey, we should talk about the picks

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that like might or might not convey that could affect

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the trade deadline? Like what do you think? And I

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think you were like in and so then I put

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I rounded them up yesterday, I think yesterday, And the

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doc I put together was like maybe a page, like

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page and a half, and then you get a hold

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of it and turn it into an eight page bullet pointed,

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highly organized, just with like talking points. I was like, God,

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damn it. I really feel like for people that don't know,

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this is what happens is you will take something to

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its absolute extreme in a good way that I would

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never do, and the podcast benefits from it. But holy smoke,

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I couldn't believe how long this thing was. When I

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opened it back up today.

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Speaker 1: It was. I did do fourteen hundred words, and we've

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reached the point in our partnership though where like normally

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I would be reticent to send that to something like

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a guest because I don't want to overload them with information.

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But at this rate, it's been years, Grant knows what

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he's in for, right, I have no problems about sending

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you fourteen hundred words that you may have to scan through.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know why I was surprised. It's not

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a knock. I just wanted to illustrate, like, here's here's

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here's how it gets done listeners and viewers.

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Speaker 1: That's how the you. It's funny though, you were before

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we get into the actual criteria of this, you were

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way lower on your own concept than I was, because

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you in the initial message you sent me about it,

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you're like, as I'm typing this out, it's not a

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good idea, and I'm like, this is one of the

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best ideas you've had.

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Speaker 2: That's a That's another aspect of the dynamic here.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, uh, this is interesting where it didn't

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end up being just picks that could convey and we're

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looking at this through multiple lenses and there are basically

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kind of three buckets we ended up separating these teams into.

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And so there's the one that you outlined where it's

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these teams they have draft obligations elsewhere they're not necessarily contenders,

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So what are they going to do? Like does this

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make them more likely to sell or does it mean

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that they're gonna try and maybe win a little bit more?

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And there's Honestly, when you sent your original doc over,

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I don't think I realized, like how many of these

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situations there are. This has to be one of the

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times where it's okay, like this isn't normal.

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Speaker 2: I was shocked to just putting it together. Just forget

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like if we dispense with the different buckets, Like I

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think there are nineteen first round obligations this year, which

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not saying they're all going to convey, but there's thirty

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teams and there are nineteen first round picks that are

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like maybe maybe not like you might get it, they

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might get it.

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Speaker 1: And Oklahoma City is tied to every all nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, there's that too. That's understood, but I could

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it's two thirds. There are two thirds of first round

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draft picks have like some kind of little tag on

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them that it's just just talking twenty twenty five, like forget,

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we'll go out, you know, we'll reference ones that are

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further out, but nineteen different instances in this coming first

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round where where a team finishes, there's unprotected ones too,

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So I mean, I guess that's its own category. But

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like where a team finishes is gonna affect like what

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happens to that pick, which is like that's insan I can't.

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I don't know. We didn't look this up like going

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back years, but that's gotta be like on the very

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high end, I know.

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Speaker 1: How you would look at because there's not data necessarily

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on like the previous draft obligations. There's only the future

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draft obligation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well you'd have to like go look at trade

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deadlines and see like, oh, this twenty twenty three protected

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pick went somewhere.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, we're getting to a point though, with the way

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these protections are written, and then the swaps of the

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swaps of the swaps of the initial swaps, it's just

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it's going to become too hard to follow. The other

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two buckets were what's I find this to be. Maybe

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the most interesting bucket for me is the potential buyers

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that have other teams's picks, And so you would use

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the Spurs as an example, just having a Minnesota pick

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in twenty and thirty one, having the Hawks picks, having

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the Bulls pick this year. And so we get into

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those teams, and the third bucket was, Okay, these teams

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don't have other teams's pick, but what's interesting is that

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some of them might be desperate enough or win now enough.

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Where are we going to see a bunch of first

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rounders in twenty twenty seven or beyond being dealt? And

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so we go through that bucket. There are some teams

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that fall under multiple ones. We kind of just slotted them,

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and we tackled this from we invariably decided to tackle

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it from the team perspective. So we'll go through different

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teams and just as a fore warning, we left out

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just sort of the I would call them the four

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gone conclusions or just like the ones who should be

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Like Memphis is an example. They have all their own picks.

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They're a buyer like because they have all their own

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picks and no other teams's picks, Like we're not going

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to talk about later Memphis picks. And then Washington. They

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have a first round obligation to New York. That fucking

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thing's never conveying, So like that's not what is situation.

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Speaker 2: I forget what the protections are on it.

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Speaker 1: This year we talk about it with the Knicks, I guess,

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but we'll talk about it from the Washington Wizards uhetive.

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Speaker 2: So before we start, like the nutshell summation of what

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we're trying to do here, it's kind of in the title,

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but it's basically to just like, and this is the

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year to do it because there's so many like just

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get a handle on what kind of future pick obligations

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might have an effect on this trade deadline? Is that

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like a fair summation of what we're trying to do

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because everyone's putting fake trades together, Like you need to

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know like sort of what's possible what's not as a

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threshold level as far as like they can trade this

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pick or they can't. But it's also like how do

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some of these pick obligations and like conveyances affect like

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what a team actually should be trying to do, right,

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Like a team that's got a kind of protection and

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like should not be trying to tank, like you know,

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there's that's an obvious, like extreme case, but like that,

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that's kind of the goal here is to sort of

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lay out the landscape of like how these future like

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immediate future especially picks are gonna could and should affect

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teams behavior at the deadline.

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Speaker 1: And my final note would be, I guess this kind

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of dovetails with what I said if teams will under

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multiple buckets. But looking at a team like Utah as

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an example there we'll talk about them potential potentially owing

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a pick to Okay see this year, but they have

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all these Cleveland Minnesota picks. They're not going to be

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in the potential buyers that could trade these picks because

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they're not a team. As Grant kind of mentioned, we're

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looking at how do these picks influence behavior, and just

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Utah's not at a point in their developmental arc where

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they should be dealing distant first from other teams. In

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my opinion, we're going to begin with the teams who

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have obligations to other team notable obligations to other teams bucket.

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This will be done alphabetically, except in this case we're

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just gonna start off with Miami because their outlook could

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change at any given point, and so I think it'll

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be best if we alternate on these, and I'll start off,

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and we can just give the nutshell of what we're

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specifically looking at for this exercise. So, for Miami, they

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owe their twenty twenty five first round pick to OKAC.

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It is lottery protected. If it doesn't convey, it becomes

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unprotected in twenty twenty six. They also owe their twenty

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twenty seven first round pick to Charlotte that is also

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lottery protected. However, if that doesn't convey, or if the

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OKAC obligation does not convey this year, that pick becomes

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unprotected in twenty twenty eight. So effectively, what we're looking

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at here, there are other ways to frame it. If

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Miami does not make the playoffs this year, they owe

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two unprotected picks in twenty twenty six, in twenty twenty eight.

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That is fascinating in a vacuum, it's morbidly intriguing now

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because of the Jimmy Butler trade sweepstakes, and so Grant,

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how do you think this influences what they do with

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Jimmy Butler, what type of return they're looking for with

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him or should look for with him. It feels it's

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been talked about, but like it feels like it should

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be a bigger story with regard to Jimmy Butler's future.

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Speaker 2: Right, So the simplest if you're thinking about, like what

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should Miami prioritize, what should it care about? I think

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the simplest answer is convey that twenty five first, right,

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Like you want that to go, because that's that's where

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you start. Now. The counter might be you, like, you're

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confident that in twenty six you're gonna be a top

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five team or whatever, and you're gonna convey a pick

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that's twenty fourth or something, and then you're you're good

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again in a couple of years, and that one going

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to Charlotte is again in the twenties. Like, if you're

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optimistic and you think, you think, like you know, we can,

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we're not afraid of having Like I think it's a

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very scary thing to have an unprotected pick outgoing, especially

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just for any team, but for a team that's like

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skewing older and we're not sure about the core, Like,

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that's really scary. I still think you want to convey

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that pick in twenty twenty five and you hope it's

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sort of as bad as it can be. And that

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just means, like in the Butler trade landscape, you probably

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want to get somebody back that's going to help you

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be decent, right like, or at least not miss the playoffs.

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And that's music. Well, that's the thing is. It's like, well,

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but like, how do we weigh that against we don't

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want to take on a Bradley Beal level of money

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for two more years, like because that's also bad and

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might hamstring. So I'm curious what you think. My gut is,

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like you just want the pick to convey this year,

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and you don't want to put yourself in the position

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of having two unprotected picks going out when maybe you're

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gonna be bad. Who knows, even though there isn't it's not.

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It's not an easy decision necessarily. And the Heat, by

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the way, I think, are among the teams that are

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always confident, like we don't care will be good, that

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unprotected pick's not gonna hurt us, So I mean it might.

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So that's it though, right, like you you probably want

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that twenty five to.

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Speaker 1: Go, Yeah, you absolutely want it to go. There's there's

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no argument against like, oh, they could be fine and

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for all the how you might feel about Jimmy Butler,

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like they're worse with him. Well, they're a minus two

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point three points per one hundred posessions with him off

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the court this year, and so it's not a matter

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of just you could remove him for anything and they'll

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be fine. What I do think would be worth a question,

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do you think that they are more Are they better

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off trying to get that pick to convey by keeping

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Jimmy Butler or by trading him for a return that

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they think would give them Probably, just objectively, if you're

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going from Jimmy Butler to package whatever, your probably playoff

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chances in theory should be lower. But that's also not

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factoring in. Once Jimmy butler seven games suspension is up,

239
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,720
what are the chances that he's never mind a happy camper,

240
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,879
but a compliant camper about returning.

241
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, like you're I think the assumption should be that

242
00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:00,559
he's gonna make it real bad, Like he's gonna make

243
00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,519
it Minnesota levels of uncomfortable. That's gonna hurt the team probably,

244
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,240
So I do I take your point, like, Yeah, having

245
00:12:07,279 --> 00:12:09,519
Jimmy Butler's better than not having Jimmy Butler or having

246
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,320
Jimmy Butler's probably better than whatever garbage you have to

247
00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,879
take back because nobody wants that contract and the rental

248
00:12:14,919 --> 00:12:17,960
possibility and the free agency whatever. But like he could

249
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,600
make it so bad. Oh yeah, I mean, if anybody

250
00:12:21,639 --> 00:12:23,679
could could make that a close question, I think it

251
00:12:23,799 --> 00:12:27,320
is him. So I Miami's a big news Dan. Miami's

252
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,639
in a tough spot, good not a good spot.

253
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,399
Speaker 1: That's why I still really do believe that I know

254
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,639
King's fanciald. Differently, I love Sacramento is a landing spot

255
00:12:35,879 --> 00:12:39,159
for the Kings actually, but just from a talent perspective.

256
00:12:39,159 --> 00:12:41,159
I don't don't talk to me about the payroll. But

257
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,399
also for Miami because it's right de Rosen and Kevin

258
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,039
Herder and then I'm they would have to throw in

259
00:12:46,039 --> 00:12:49,240
their twenty twenty seven pick. That's not like the greatest package.

260
00:12:49,279 --> 00:12:51,799
But like those two dudes will help you now. And

261
00:12:51,879 --> 00:12:54,840
I don't think you're a better team, but like you're

262
00:12:54,879 --> 00:12:56,679
you're still a team. Yeah, but where it's like if

263
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,279
you just get Bradley Beal in a first round pick

264
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,080
or even two, Let's say I Phoenix is able to

265
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,879
turn Ryan Done or oh zoegadaro On into one. I

266
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,440
don't know, like, what of those two packages, just the frameworks,

267
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:09,440
what do you think gives the Heat a better chance

268
00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,120
of making the playoffs this year in the East?

269
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,120
Speaker 2: Probably the Kings one, I just because you're getting multiple

270
00:13:14,159 --> 00:13:16,480
bodies that can help, and like I would just assume

271
00:13:16,519 --> 00:13:18,679
that Herder and de Rosen will be better in Miami,

272
00:13:18,879 --> 00:13:21,440
just because that's I still drink the kool aid to

273
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,799
some extent. But neither, I mean neither of those come

274
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,799
with guarantees. Like you you still you may try your

275
00:13:27,799 --> 00:13:30,240
best and you might still have to like eat it

276
00:13:30,279 --> 00:13:32,360
and you're giving up a twenty six unprotected because you

277
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:33,159
missed the playoffs.

278
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:36,559
Speaker 1: Before we move on, do you think that this pick

279
00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:38,480
conveys this year? If you had to guess yes or no.

280
00:13:39,159 --> 00:13:40,720
Speaker 2: Well, so it's just do I think the heater are

281
00:13:40,759 --> 00:13:46,200
going to be or not? Man, I I think I

282
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,720
think it will convey. I think they will make the playoffs.

283
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:53,120
I don't feel good about that at all. Uh, just

284
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,320
that just feels like the Miami thing to do.

285
00:13:56,279 --> 00:13:58,679
Speaker 1: I'm calling it now this pick is not conveying, Okay.

286
00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,919
I think it's more likely that they somehow figure out

287
00:14:00,919 --> 00:14:03,480
a deal to a mend what's going on with maybe

288
00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:06,039
one of these. Then it is that they actually convey

289
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,480
the pick by making the playoffs. Okay, you want to

290
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:09,559
take us to our next one.

291
00:14:09,799 --> 00:14:13,480
Speaker 2: Yes, this is the Atlanta Hawks. So they are sending

292
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,759
twenty five twenty six is a swap, and twenty seven

293
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,360
first to San Antonio from the de Jonte Murray trade.

294
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,960
They own the Lakers twenty five first, which is unprotected,

295
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,600
potentially juicy with some downside there. They own the Kings

296
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,480
twenty five first, thanks Kevin Herder, with top twelve protection,

297
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,399
top ten protection in twenty six, then twenty six and

298
00:14:31,399 --> 00:14:33,879
twenty seven. It turns into seconds in twenty six and

299
00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:37,480
twenty second twenty seven. That's hard to say if not conveyed.

300
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,240
They own the twenty twenty seven first from Milwaukee or

301
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:43,440
New Orleans, the least favorable of those, and that also

302
00:14:43,559 --> 00:14:46,799
has top four protection. So kind of the same question.

303
00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,480
Speaker 1: Dual bucket team, right, what's that?

304
00:14:49,639 --> 00:14:54,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, multiple milwauckey team, multi bucket. I mean the obvious.

305
00:14:55,159 --> 00:14:58,039
Let's start with more immediate, like what does what are

306
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,080
these various obligations and the certainly the nearer ones sort

307
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,360
of incentivize Atlanta to do and not do it. The

308
00:15:04,399 --> 00:15:06,320
deadline and you know, I guess you can stretch that

309
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:07,360
out for a couple of seasons.

310
00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:11,320
Speaker 1: Really, do you think so? My gut reaction is, and

311
00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,279
I'm not saying for them to do something stupid, although

312
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:15,399
I think they would also be another fun Jimmy Butler team.

313
00:15:15,799 --> 00:15:18,759
Just let me look. If you guys want chaos, put

314
00:15:18,759 --> 00:15:20,960
me in charge of an NBA franchise, Like, I will

315
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,519
do things in markets that normally wouldn't do them, and

316
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,840
I will make no apologies for it. My gut reaction

317
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,840
is they should be not like super duper buyers, but

318
00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:34,120
just devalue your own picks, moving forward as much as possible,

319
00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,960
being as good as you can within reason. But when

320
00:15:37,039 --> 00:15:40,159
you start to look at their protections or i'm sorry,

321
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:44,240
the other picks that they're owed grant, it's sort of like, okay,

322
00:15:44,279 --> 00:15:46,840
could they view the Lakers twenty twenty five first as

323
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,399
a proxy for their own They're like, how much more

324
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,759
valuable is their first round pick to compare to the

325
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,679
Lakers this year? And then could they also make the

326
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,039
case that I'm saying, without doing anything, that Kings pick

327
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,840
like maybe it conveys, but like if it doesn't, okay,

328
00:16:01,879 --> 00:16:04,039
if you're gonna get a top ten protected Kings pick

329
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,960
and you have to swap your own pick. Does that

330
00:16:07,039 --> 00:16:08,840
cancel it out? Maybe if you're gonna get a Kings

331
00:16:08,879 --> 00:16:10,720
pick in that season. So what I'm really looking at

332
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,639
it is, I'm saying, so, could they view the Lakers

333
00:16:13,679 --> 00:16:16,120
pick this year as a substitute for their own and

334
00:16:16,159 --> 00:16:18,519
then even the pick in twenty twenty seven where it's

335
00:16:19,039 --> 00:16:21,320
I guess Milwaukee or New Orleans. One of them could

336
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,200
be really good, but it's kind of it's loosely protected.

337
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,919
Could they just look at this and say, Okay, like,

338
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,039
we're out our own picks, but we still have picks

339
00:16:29,279 --> 00:16:31,080
in those years, and so we're just gonna stay the

340
00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,600
course and stan pat be mediocre. I don't know if

341
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,840
it does it also give them a license if they

342
00:16:36,879 --> 00:16:38,720
wanted to, and they won't, I want to be clear,

343
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,000
But I also think it opens the door for someone

344
00:16:41,039 --> 00:16:42,879
like you, who in the passes argued they should just

345
00:16:42,879 --> 00:16:46,679
strip it down. They could technically go that route, depending

346
00:16:46,679 --> 00:16:49,799
on how they feel about these other three first rounders

347
00:16:49,799 --> 00:16:51,279
that they have in their their chamber.

348
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, when I make the strip it down argument for them,

349
00:16:53,799 --> 00:16:56,879
which I'm like less and less convinced by, the better

350
00:16:56,919 --> 00:16:58,600
they look, and the more I'm kind of like Atlanta's

351
00:16:58,600 --> 00:16:59,799
like looking pretty good.

352
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:01,360
Speaker 1: It's the DeAndre Hunter effect.

353
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,119
Speaker 2: It's he's got me. The argument I make is like, well,

354
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,000
if you don't have your own picks, at least you know,

355
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:09,160
the next best thing is somebody else's and like they

356
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,359
that's what they have, Like you can just view the

357
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,880
two incoming twenty five's, you know, with protections in that

358
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,319
twenty seven as like, yeah, you just substitute those for

359
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:20,559
the three picks that you still have going out to

360
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:23,400
the Spurs, and you're like, you're like break even. I

361
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:28,119
think my thought is you just you're sort of doubly

362
00:17:28,279 --> 00:17:33,359
incentivized to be a buyer talking about Atlanta because there's

363
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,519
no benefit to tanking obviously, because you're not. Your draft

364
00:17:36,519 --> 00:17:38,720
picks will not improve no matter how bad you are,

365
00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:43,279
for basically three years, and then you can use these

366
00:17:43,319 --> 00:17:46,119
other picks that you don't really have control over in

367
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,359
the same sense, because the success of these other teams

368
00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,640
determines how good they are to trade for when now stuff,

369
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,799
Because why wouldn't you be thinking when now when you

370
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,799
don't have like your own picks and you don't benefit

371
00:17:58,839 --> 00:18:02,599
at all from being bad, So I think that's kind

372
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,240
of a not a great position to be in because

373
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,160
you do really surrender like a lot of control. But

374
00:18:09,279 --> 00:18:13,000
wouldn't you do you agree that what we're looking at

375
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:15,799
on the screen here basically is an argument that the

376
00:18:15,839 --> 00:18:18,480
Hawks should be trying to go get somebody to make

377
00:18:18,519 --> 00:18:20,599
the team better. And that might be true this year

378
00:18:20,599 --> 00:18:22,000
and next year at the deadline.

379
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:25,359
Speaker 1: I think I would lean that way as well. But

380
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,240
I think they're also in a position where this is

381
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,319
not a roster where it's completely bereft of players who

382
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,119
theoretically could be he be in Atlanta and be good

383
00:18:33,559 --> 00:18:37,039
long term. So if you wanted to stand pat, I

384
00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:40,039
think that that because you have these others where it's like, honestly,

385
00:18:40,079 --> 00:18:43,279
you could view what pick has more value. I think

386
00:18:43,279 --> 00:18:46,079
people would say the Hawks is twenty twenty five first

387
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,240
is more valuable than the Lakers twenty twenty five first.

388
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,160
Maybe you necessarily know that's the case.

389
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean the Lakers, the Lakers have the

390
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,640
twelfth best point differential in the West. Like they it's

391
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,240
just like regression is like screaming right now, like it's

392
00:19:00,079 --> 00:19:02,400
Ron and Ady have been healthy that that twenty five

393
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,319
first that could be a top seven pick before this

394
00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:06,440
is all over. Who knows.

395
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,400
Speaker 1: I do. When I look at them, I would say

396
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,359
they're either going to be convinced or forced into being

397
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:14,480
a medium size, Like they're not going to trade all

398
00:19:14,519 --> 00:19:16,200
of these picks. That's not going to be like to

399
00:19:16,279 --> 00:19:19,160
go the home run swing, but they're incentivized to maybe

400
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,039
be a buyer. But I think what it for more

401
00:19:21,079 --> 00:19:23,799
than anything, what I think it does is it ruins

402
00:19:24,319 --> 00:19:27,359
the buyer's market because they're absolutely not going to be sellers, Like,

403
00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,920
if anything, they're going to stand in a normal if

404
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,240
they had their own picks. And yes they've been probably

405
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:34,680
they've been better than I expected this year, But if

406
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,400
they had their own picks, maybe even over the summer,

407
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,319
they would have looked at moving Bogdanovich DeAndre Hunter, and

408
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,480
now it's like, well maybe they'll move Quimpella and Larry

409
00:19:43,559 --> 00:19:45,839
Nance Junior. They're probably not going to move any of

410
00:19:45,839 --> 00:19:47,480
those other guys. And so if you were a buyer,

411
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:50,160
but I know Bogdanovic hasn't been healthier that good this year,

412
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,880
but it's kind of taken at least one or two

413
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,160
intriguing names off the board for other buyers because this team,

414
00:19:56,599 --> 00:19:58,839
whether you think they buy or Stan Pat I just

415
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,359
I would be flabbergant did if they.

416
00:20:01,279 --> 00:20:04,640
Speaker 2: Sold, Yeah, beyond Capella and Nance for sure, because those

417
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,079
are like, well, that's a get something while you can

418
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,359
kind of thing. But I agree, I think they're just

419
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:12,319
not incentivized to sell and they are a team that

420
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,559
like normally you'd say, like absolutely, you could probably get

421
00:20:15,559 --> 00:20:18,680
a lot of stuff for Hunter, Boganovich, whatever, but that's

422
00:20:18,759 --> 00:20:21,119
just not that doesn't make sense for them.

423
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,839
Speaker 1: And that'll be something to look back on after the

424
00:20:23,839 --> 00:20:27,079
deadline of if you think that it wasn't active enough,

425
00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,519
because even if like the trades we've already seen, if

426
00:20:30,559 --> 00:20:33,519
Dennis Shreuter going to the Warriors or Drian Phinney Smith

427
00:20:33,559 --> 00:20:35,119
going to the Lakers ends up being like two of

428
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,319
the three biggest deals we see during trade season, people

429
00:20:38,319 --> 00:20:40,079
will be bummed out. But then you have to go

430
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,480
back and look and it's just like, well, this type

431
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,119
of situation with Atlanta where it's they're not terrible, they're

432
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,519
not great, and yet they're not incentivized to try and

433
00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:51,200
be one the other at this point, how does that

434
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,759
just impact the trademarket at large? Yeah, our next team,

435
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,640
oh boy, the Chicago Bulls. This should be an easy.

436
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,519
Speaker 2: Properly they is it?

437
00:21:01,519 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 1: Ever, No, it's not. They owe they're twenty twenty five

438
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,279
first to San Antonio. It is top ten protected. It

439
00:21:08,319 --> 00:21:10,720
will then be if it doesn't convey top eight protected

440
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,759
in twenty twenty six, and then again in twenty twenty

441
00:21:13,759 --> 00:21:17,400
seven before turning into a twenty twenty eight second if

442
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,960
it's not conveyed. You looked at this Bulls team entering

443
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,640
the season, and I would say the prevailing consensus was

444
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,720
that even if they tried that, this pick was just

445
00:21:26,799 --> 00:21:31,119
absolutely going to convey. As we record this grant there,

446
00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:35,279
they have the tenth worst record this week. So it's

447
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,200
right on the borderline.

448
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 2: It's one where you wish it was clearer right like this,

449
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,240
and especially for this team, right on the borderline. Is

450
00:21:45,279 --> 00:21:48,480
that like the Bulls tagline for the last like seven years.

451
00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:51,119
It's like they're right on that borderline and they love

452
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,759
it there. They just want to be right there in

453
00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:59,599
that like indecisive middle. So do they want to keep

454
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,839
this pick like today? Oh?

455
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,799
Speaker 1: Here's my thing? Is just I guess they could look

456
00:22:04,839 --> 00:22:08,519
at it saying, what's the difference where if we finish

457
00:22:08,839 --> 00:22:11,240
ninth in the lottery odds versus we're the number fourteen

458
00:22:11,319 --> 00:22:13,359
lottery team, and so if we end up striking Gold,

459
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,759
we'll get to keep the pick anyway. But I just

460
00:22:15,839 --> 00:22:20,160
to fault to everyone loves the top of this draft class.

461
00:22:20,519 --> 00:22:23,880
Why wouldn't you want to be among the teams that

462
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,200
are going after prospects in the top of this draft class.

463
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,880
But now we've reached the interesting conundrum of well half

464
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,599
the seasons in the books, you have a ton of

465
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,720
ground to make up. If you want at a bottom five,

466
00:22:35,839 --> 00:22:39,960
it's probably when you look at the teams. Washington, New

467
00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:42,119
Orleans is getting healthier, but it doesn't been great when

468
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:48,240
they're healthy Toronto, Charlotte, Utah, Portland, Brooklyn, Philly. Of those teams,

469
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:50,920
really only Philadelphia is trying to get out of the

470
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,319
position that's in front of the bulls, and so could

471
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,160
they just be maybe they view how they got here

472
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,599
as sort of accidental. But now, well we got to

473
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:01,599
commit to just try to be as good as possible

474
00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:05,039
or standing pat even just because what's the point Like

475
00:23:05,079 --> 00:23:07,160
we could trade zach Lavine, and we could trade Fujin,

476
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,079
we could trade Kobe White, but we're not going to

477
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,519
be bad enough to necessarily guarantee that we're going to

478
00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:12,759
get a top raft pick.

479
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,279
Speaker 2: You're at the mercy of the Flatten Lottery odds at

480
00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:17,759
that point, and like you're and it's not like, yeah,

481
00:23:17,799 --> 00:23:21,359
you're getting to a bottom Like what would you say

482
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,640
is out of the question in terms of like where

483
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,799
the bulls could finish record wise, Like they can't get

484
00:23:25,839 --> 00:23:28,000
into the bottom five. I don't think, Like I just

485
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,920
I don't see how that's possible. Six seven maybe, But

486
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,559
then you're still just like I don't have the odds

487
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,279
up in front of me. But that's like, like you said,

488
00:23:35,759 --> 00:23:38,519
it's not even close to a guarantee that you're those

489
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:41,000
protections are going to ensure you keep that pick, So

490
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,599
like you would have to be just talking about again

491
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:47,440
getting back to like what behavior is incentivized here? I

492
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,400
think it still needs to be. And this is just

493
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,119
a broken record for us. Sell off everything you can

494
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:55,119
do the best you can to keep that pick and

495
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,559
hope that you strike golden it's the top whatever, three, four,

496
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,920
five pick, and at least then you've hopefully gotten off

497
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,039
of the money you don't want and not taken back

498
00:24:04,079 --> 00:24:07,319
too much in exchange for it. Just that that should

499
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,599
be the goal still even though there's just like, what's

500
00:24:10,599 --> 00:24:13,279
happened to this point in the season means that it's

501
00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:15,960
just a little harder to achieve that goal than it

502
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:16,920
probably should have been.

503
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,160
Speaker 1: I also will note a competent franchise would even look

504
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,319
at this situation independent of this pick, because you could

505
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,720
really look at it and say, if you trade Vooch

506
00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:27,960
and Zach, are you getting an it? Like are you

507
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,039
getting You're not getting a first round pick for Vouch?

508
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,440
And then with Zach Levine, I thought you would get

509
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,240
a prospect or a first round pick, But the fact

510
00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:36,079
he's still on this team makes wonder can they only

511
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,759
hope for expiring money? And so you could make the

512
00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:40,839
case they're not going to get assets. What's the point.

513
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:43,359
A team that's more competent would also be focused on

514
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,319
getting as many other assets as possible. And that's why

515
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,799
names like Kobe White and I would assume we should

516
00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:49,880
also be on the trade block.

517
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,039
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah, No, it's they just made it harder on

518
00:24:53,079 --> 00:24:55,640
themselves than they needed to by by weight. I mean,

519
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,799
the market for Levine, I guess last year was so

520
00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,279
bad that like maybe it would have just been the

521
00:24:59,279 --> 00:25:01,759
wrong decision to trade him. But the second, like I

522
00:25:01,759 --> 00:25:04,200
don't know, a month ago, like they needed to be moving.

523
00:25:04,279 --> 00:25:06,079
The second it was like, oh, Zach Lvine's good again,

524
00:25:06,279 --> 00:25:08,279
Like mark it up, move him immediately.

525
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,319
Speaker 1: What he wins? If the best deal to date was

526
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,599
Michael Porter's junior and Zeke Nausey for Zach Lavine, does

527
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,880
that change? Like do you kill the Bulls for not

528
00:25:20,039 --> 00:25:22,200
to again? Denver is not interested in it. It didn't seem

529
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,240
like Chicago wanted Nausey's money, because no one in their

530
00:25:24,279 --> 00:25:26,680
right mind wants that money on their books right now.

531
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,680
But if that's the best out there, I still think

532
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,319
it just comes back to you could get two first

533
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,160
round picks for Kobe White right now, and that's what

534
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:32,799
you should be doing.

535
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:35,079
Speaker 2: I agree. I wrote something the other day just asking

536
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,599
the question of, like, is it possible that the Bulls

537
00:25:37,599 --> 00:25:40,160
could find themselves in a position where the right decision

538
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,039
objectively is to keep Levine through the deadline, And like, yeah,

539
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,000
actually it might be. And that's the fact that that's

540
00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:50,720
a possibility is just is an indictment of like how

541
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,359
they've conducted business the last handful of years. But like

542
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,160
that really if they if the Bulls don't trade Zach Lavine.

543
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,240
I don't think you'll get to say just unequivocally they

544
00:26:00,279 --> 00:26:02,680
messed up at this deadline. It's just like that might

545
00:26:02,759 --> 00:26:03,559
just be the right call.

546
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:04,279
Speaker 1: Who's next?

547
00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:07,079
Speaker 2: This is the Pistons. They are sending their twenty twenty

548
00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:09,799
five first round pick to Minnesota with top thirteen protection.

549
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,640
Nobody panic that turns into top eleven protection in twenty six,

550
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,240
top nine and twenty seven, and it becomes a twenty

551
00:26:16,279 --> 00:26:20,119
seven second rounder if it is not conveyed. The Pistons

552
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,200
are pretty good. I think they're five and one in

553
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,559
their last six. They have kind of turned that corner.

554
00:26:27,039 --> 00:26:29,880
It's probably like pretty I mean, it's got to be

555
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:31,720
like this is the most exciting time for the Pistons

556
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:35,559
in five years. More than that, I don't know. So

557
00:26:36,279 --> 00:26:39,480
the question then is with top thirteen protection on that pick, like,

558
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:43,319
are you buying are with obviously without trading future first,

559
00:26:44,279 --> 00:26:46,480
which is doable considering some of the contracts they have.

560
00:26:47,519 --> 00:26:49,319
Do you want to just do you want to wash

561
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,960
your hands of this, like have it go? Obviously the

562
00:26:52,279 --> 00:26:54,359
bonus of if this pick goes you had a pretty

563
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,880
decent season by Detroit standards. Is that? Should that be

564
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,960
the goal? Or I guess the counter is this team

565
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:06,359
still needs a crack at another like high lottery guy,

566
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,200
even though they've had several, and you should want to

567
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:10,119
hold onto this pick.

568
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,079
Speaker 1: I think they should just get the like let it

569
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:14,880
convey out of the way, because I think if we've

570
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,839
seen anything then from this season, let's say it doesn't convey.

571
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,839
Now these protections are getting lighter, and why do you

572
00:27:20,839 --> 00:27:23,680
believe you're gonna get worse, Because if you're gonna get worse,

573
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,599
that would have to be I would assume deliberate. And

574
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,000
you all have traded some people, and so I would

575
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,039
look at it as you're the only team with cap space,

576
00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:32,079
try and get a little better, see what money you

577
00:27:32,079 --> 00:27:33,759
could take on. And by the way, that also serves

578
00:27:33,799 --> 00:27:37,039
a rebuilding purpose because presumably if you're leasing out your

579
00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:39,839
cap space, you'd be getting some asset back. Maybe maybe

580
00:27:39,839 --> 00:27:42,000
it's just a good player that another team is trying

581
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,559
it doesn't want on their payroll because of apron reasons,

582
00:27:44,599 --> 00:27:47,160
but maybe you're getting a pick or something. I still

583
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,079
think that's the approach. I will say, though, I think

584
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,680
what it does more than anything for this team under

585
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,400
normal circumstances, knowing that unless they go to lengths to

586
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,640
carve out more cap space. They're only going to be

587
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,720
able to pay Malik Beasley the non tax payers mid level. Now,

588
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,200
that might just be enough to keep Malik Beasley, But

589
00:28:06,319 --> 00:28:08,319
in other types of seasons you might have just said,

590
00:28:08,319 --> 00:28:10,319
if you can get two or three seconds from Elik Beasley,

591
00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:12,640
he's been super valuable, just move them. I think that

592
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,519
should absolutely be off the table now because one, he's

593
00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:18,599
helping you in the in the immediate but two you

594
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,519
might just be able to keep him, Like you might

595
00:28:20,519 --> 00:28:22,119
have to give out more years because there will be

596
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,119
other teams at the non taxpayer mid level exception over

597
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,880
the summer. Maybe you have to give out more years,

598
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,400
but he has helped your team. So if you're even

599
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,480
if if you don't view this season as the season,

600
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,519
you're not bad enough to say let's punt to me anyway,

601
00:28:34,519 --> 00:28:36,359
You're not bad enough to say let's punt on the

602
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,640
outside chance of keeping Malik Beasley at a time when

603
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,359
we would expect to be better as players improve. And

604
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,960
also maybe we're more aggressive on the transaction market.

605
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,119
Speaker 2: I think like top thirteen protection or I guess lottery

606
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,960
protection is like right around that. I'm trying to like

607
00:28:51,079 --> 00:28:54,200
land on a all things being equal threshold of like

608
00:28:54,279 --> 00:28:56,440
when you should want the pick to convey and when not.

609
00:28:57,119 --> 00:28:59,640
And I think it's that's right around. Like the cutoff

610
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,240
for me is if you have like a top eight

611
00:29:01,319 --> 00:29:04,359
protected pick, like I think you probably want to hold

612
00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:06,039
onto that, you know, you know what I mean. Like

613
00:29:06,039 --> 00:29:08,319
I'm trying to arrive at some kind of rubric for

614
00:29:08,359 --> 00:29:11,240
where it's like the default assumption should be. I guess

615
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:15,559
that's hard because everything's so situation specific. But like, I

616
00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:18,119
don't know, the Pistons are these kind of picks are

617
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,559
right on the line. I think you just want you

618
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:22,200
just want this pick to go. You want to be

619
00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:27,039
unencumbered going forward to the extent that's possible, And like, yeah,

620
00:29:27,079 --> 00:29:29,200
I think you want to be like a moderate buyer.

621
00:29:29,559 --> 00:29:32,599
I just like for years it's been the Pistons and

622
00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:35,640
although like they got that fourteen point one million sitting

623
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,799
there to and they're gonna do something and play facilitator probably,

624
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,960
But if you can make that like more of a

625
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,440
buy and not just a dump, I think that's probably

626
00:29:43,599 --> 00:29:44,880
that's not the worst way to go.

627
00:29:46,039 --> 00:29:48,799
Speaker 1: There's I will say their pick is also and we'll

628
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:51,720
get to them, is because of how good the Pistons are.

629
00:29:51,759 --> 00:29:55,519
It does make Minnesota having this pick more fascinating for them,

630
00:29:55,599 --> 00:29:57,680
which we will get to. Next up on our list

631
00:29:57,759 --> 00:29:59,799
is the Indiana Pacers. I don't think we need to

632
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,000
a ton of time on them, but they owe their

633
00:30:02,039 --> 00:30:05,000
twenty twenty five first to Toronto with top four protection.

634
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,880
It's also top four protected in twenty twenty six. It

635
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,880
then turns into two seconds Utah's and dallases and twenty

636
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,920
seven and twenty eight if it does not convey. So

637
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,000
in theory, because the Pacers they've they've really turned things

638
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,440
around lately. Andrew nemhard for MVP apparently, I think is

639
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,559
the proper stance to take. You view them as buyers,

640
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,359
so they could still trade functionally up to three first

641
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:30,039
round picks plus swaps. But you also have to ask yourself, yeah,

642
00:30:30,039 --> 00:30:33,200
this pick is gonna convey, so we know it's gonna convey. Yeah,

643
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,599
but are you comfortable dealing Because any trades you make,

644
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,119
unless you're just dealing a Benedict Mathern or Jarvis Walker

645
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,839
is the primary asset, which there's dual purpose there. They

646
00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:44,960
could be salary matching. You're then sitting like a twenty

647
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,119
twenty seven. First, it's not far away, but at the

648
00:30:47,119 --> 00:30:49,200
same time for a team in Indiana's market and just

649
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,480
knowing how ephemeral windows are and competitive windows are in

650
00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:56,799
general in the NBA, they're just saying it feels different

651
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,960
than like we traded a twenty twenty six pick, and

652
00:30:59,039 --> 00:31:01,680
so does this make that I'm less likely to be

653
00:31:02,519 --> 00:31:04,799
the type of buyer that would be in on maybe

654
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,720
names that would upgrade what they're doing now. But they're

655
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,359
steering clear because we're not giving up a twenty twenty seven.

656
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:16,799
Speaker 2: First, my gut is that, well, if the season had

657
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,920
started differently, and it is true that like things seem

658
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,759
to have turned around, like even like Halliburton has been better,

659
00:31:23,039 --> 00:31:25,200
which is kind of a threshold thing for the Pacers,

660
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:27,599
Like if he's going to be great, then I think

661
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,759
maybe you start thinking harder about putting those picks on

662
00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:32,799
the table. And if he's going to be something less

663
00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:35,240
than that, it's like, oh, maybe we don't have the cornerstone.

664
00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:38,160
We want the flexibility these picks afford us. We're not

665
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,880
in a position to buy. My gut is you because

666
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,759
of what's available, I don't think I want to put

667
00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:50,640
any of those future conditional firsts on the table. If

668
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,519
who knows, maybe new names will emerge or like it'll

669
00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:54,400
just become.

670
00:31:54,599 --> 00:31:58,839
Speaker 1: Well who is because I saw Stein mark Stein linked

671
00:31:58,839 --> 00:32:02,640
them to interest in Cam Johnson, who fits everywhere. I

672
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,000
don't think if you were to do it'd be because

673
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:07,279
that's a constant player where it's two first or a

674
00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:10,079
pick and a player. I don't know. If I don't

675
00:32:10,079 --> 00:32:12,039
for what the Pacers need, I still think I know

676
00:32:12,079 --> 00:32:14,400
Aaron E. Smith hasn't played in a while. Whoever they're

677
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,519
acquiring to me needs to pack like a real perimeter

678
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:17,279
defensive punch.

679
00:32:17,319 --> 00:32:18,279
Speaker 2: And that's what I canna say.

680
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: So I was gonna ask the like, is the level

681
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,960
of let's say the level of Cam Johnson as a player,

682
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,079
but it's like, defensively, is that good enough to get

683
00:32:26,119 --> 00:32:29,279
you to move? The conditional future versus have to be

684
00:32:29,319 --> 00:32:31,240
even like who would be I'm trying to think of

685
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,400
who the worst player is that the Pacers would say, Okay,

686
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,920
we will trade our twenty twenty seven first.

687
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,759
Speaker 2: For I mean, he's not on the table, but someone

688
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,279
just well like Andrew Wiggins, who's gonna be not as

689
00:32:44,319 --> 00:32:47,240
good as shooter as Johnson, but good enough makes a

690
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:49,640
little more but is gonna be the guy that you

691
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,920
can throw at the best wings you face defensively. Someone

692
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,319
like that, you, I think you probably give up one

693
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,200
or two future first. I think that's just at least

694
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,079
more of the player type I would be interested in.

695
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: Someone like he's notable either, but Herb Jones, Oh.

696
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's I think he would cost maybe more

697
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:15,720
than Wiggins though, just younger, better defender, all that stuff. Yeah,

698
00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:18,279
I don't know. I would you. I feel like I'm

699
00:33:18,279 --> 00:33:21,160
always like, way too quick to do this, but would

700
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,640
wouldn't you rather make Matherin or Walker the centerpiece assuming

701
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,440
a team was similarly interested than one of these semi

702
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,480
distant first.

703
00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: I think the problem is that and both of them

704
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,440
have played better, right, but they're going to be more value. Like,

705
00:33:38,519 --> 00:33:40,599
I don't think any team is sending you a player

706
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,240
on let's use just Cam Johnson's level. I'm not saying,

707
00:33:43,279 --> 00:33:45,920
but like that level of player, You're not getting out

708
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,359
of that trade without giving up a first like in

709
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,720
actual first round pick. You can't. I don't think the

710
00:33:50,759 --> 00:33:53,160
Nets would do Maybe maybe they would just from a

711
00:33:53,279 --> 00:33:55,319
pure talent play, but I'm not I don't think Andy

712
00:33:55,319 --> 00:33:56,880
should do this. I want to be clear, but I

713
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,279
think if you offered Benedict mather and Jarris Walker for

714
00:33:59,319 --> 00:34:02,160
Cam Johnson, I don't know that the nets would be interested.

715
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,359
Just because you're also Bennec Mathers's extension eligible after this seasons.

716
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,559
Now you're talking about paying him coming up soon. I

717
00:34:08,599 --> 00:34:11,400
think that all factors in again, in if I was Indie,

718
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,639
I would not offer both of those guys for Camp Johnson.

719
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,599
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's just an argument. You answer the

720
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:20,440
question then, as those firsts are more valuable than either

721
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:22,599
of those two guys, I guess as trade chips. Right.

722
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:24,639
Speaker 1: That's not Gareth Walker just because he has the two

723
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:26,760
years left on his rookie scale. And I know Matt

724
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,000
Mathern' showing up like he's showing more on defense. We

725
00:34:29,039 --> 00:34:31,840
know what he can do as a scorer. So I

726
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,079
would think, would you of those three like a future

727
00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:36,880
pick for me? Indie too? I mean the protections matter,

728
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,880
but would you rather have Indies twenty twenty seven first

729
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,079
Jars Walker or Bennetcmathrin if you're a team that is

730
00:34:42,599 --> 00:34:44,360
trading with them, so just.

731
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 2: Say I'm Brooklyn, just to put a face on it.

732
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,719
I of those three, I think the asset I want

733
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,280
the most. Yeah, I think I want that twenty seven

734
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,239
first the most, even though like the Pacers should be

735
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,679
pretty good still, right, Haliburn's gonna be you know, in

736
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,719
the it'll like yeah, right in the middle of that extension,

737
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,320
like you're going to be trying to win, so you're

738
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,159
just betting on like the downside, I guess. But that

739
00:35:08,519 --> 00:35:10,440
for me, that's got more to do with like you said,

740
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,199
with Matherin, like I don't know how he fits on

741
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,400
a winner, Like how different is Matherin than Cam Thomas

742
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:16,280
in a lot of important ways? And then you have

743
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:16,760
to pay him.

744
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 1: That's the other defense I would say that about that.

745
00:35:20,159 --> 00:35:22,480
Uh I you could probably talk me in or actually

746
00:35:22,519 --> 00:35:25,800
I probably would pick Jarris Walker, but I think he'd.

747
00:35:25,639 --> 00:35:28,519
Speaker 2: Be the number one asset you'd want out of those three. Yeah.

748
00:35:29,039 --> 00:35:32,159
Speaker 1: I think the issue there is, though, is that even

749
00:35:32,199 --> 00:35:34,119
if even if you thought the number two asset was

750
00:35:34,159 --> 00:35:36,119
Benic Mathren at a vacuum, I just think there are

751
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,719
so few teams that would give up a player like

752
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,559
as good as the Pacers want without getting any sort

753
00:35:42,559 --> 00:35:43,639
of first round equity back.

754
00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 2: And that's what you probably, especially Brooklyn or whatever. The

755
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,079
teams just want picks.

756
00:35:48,639 --> 00:35:52,280
Speaker 1: More of the story the historically conservative franchise, even training

757
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,079
for Pascal Siakam. What they gave up was conservative in

758
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,159
those types of trade terms. I don't expect any fireworks

759
00:35:58,159 --> 00:35:59,360
out of Indy at the day time.

760
00:35:59,599 --> 00:36:01,599
Speaker 2: I think I just my team, or you're a team

761
00:36:01,639 --> 00:36:03,360
that I'll take it. I think it's me. So we're

762
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,719
onto the Sixers here. They are sending their twenty five

763
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,840
first to Oklahoma City that has top six protections. It's

764
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,440
top four in twenty through twenty twenty seven, so next

765
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,079
year in the one after then becomes a twenty seven second.

766
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,480
They're also sending their twenty seven first to Brooklyn that's

767
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,519
conditional upon that OKAC obligation being fulfilled to the previous

768
00:36:22,559 --> 00:36:25,559
pick we just mentioned that's got top eight protection through

769
00:36:25,559 --> 00:36:28,079
twenty eight, then it becomes a twenty eight second. The

770
00:36:28,679 --> 00:36:32,199
Sixers also own the least favorable twenty twenty six first

771
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,400
rounder of Houston, the Clippers or the Thunder, So that's

772
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,719
gonna be. That's gonna be probably in the late twenties,

773
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,639
you would assume, if unless something goes sideways for the Thunder.

774
00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:45,639
The Sixers also own the twenty eight first from the Clippers.

775
00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:49,119
With no protections whatsoever. That's kind of the crown jewel

776
00:36:49,159 --> 00:36:51,719
of the hard and trade. They have swap rights on

777
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,079
twenty twenty nine first rounder with the Clippers that has

778
00:36:54,159 --> 00:36:58,199
top three protection. I mean, it makes sense for them

779
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,760
to get the OKAC obligation out of the way this year.

780
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,880
Probably tell me if you disagree.

781
00:37:03,039 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 1: People or would it make sense to not do that?

782
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,519
I just there's no way to get how bad? What

783
00:37:08,559 --> 00:37:10,199
do you have to have a bottom four record to

784
00:37:10,199 --> 00:37:12,599
guarantee that you get a top seven pick? Right, so

785
00:37:12,679 --> 00:37:16,559
like there's even a chance that you just at this point,

786
00:37:16,599 --> 00:37:18,679
you can't be bad enough to guarantee that you would

787
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:19,239
keep that pick.

788
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 2: Well, don't you remember earlier this year when it was

789
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,719
like just the darkest, darkest days for the Sixers, talking

790
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,320
about like, oh my god, the Thunder could get like

791
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,719
the number seven pick or whatever out of the Sixers

792
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:32,400
this year.

793
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,159
Speaker 1: You need to have the second worst record in the

794
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,599
NBA to lock yourself into a top six pick.

795
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,519
Speaker 2: Well, that was in play for a minute, it felt like,

796
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,800
But yeah, I think, I mean the more interesting aspect

797
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,239
of all this is like the Sixers can absolutely still

798
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,960
be buyers with with some of these other income that

799
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,119
twenty eight Clippers pick if you want it now, the

800
00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:53,760
market is what it is. We'll probably have to say

801
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,519
that fifty more times. But like that unprotected twenty eight

802
00:37:56,519 --> 00:38:00,239
Clippers pick, that's pretty choice. That's one you can put

803
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,440
on the table if you know you really needed to

804
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:03,960
make a serious offer for something.

805
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: But like they're distant, if you're gonna to me, it's

806
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,840
not about their buyers or they should like or actually

807
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,840
I guess the question is does it make more sense

808
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:16,920
for them to just stand pap because wasn't the assumption

809
00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:18,960
for all of us that you know, they have the

810
00:38:19,039 --> 00:38:23,079
kJ Martin Human Trade Exception contract, they can still aggregate

811
00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:25,719
contracts in a trade that they were just gonna make

812
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,079
what we thought was a really good roster even though

813
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:30,920
we all acknowledged their fragility even better. And now it's

814
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,119
sort of like, well, Jared McCain's out for the season,

815
00:38:33,199 --> 00:38:38,159
Joelle Elmbiid has been barely available, Paul George is missing

816
00:38:38,159 --> 00:38:40,400
wide open threes, and his availability has been all over

817
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,239
the place. If you're the Sixers, what is the urgency

818
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:44,880
to buy?

819
00:38:46,119 --> 00:38:49,519
Speaker 2: I just wonder how much of the conversation around the

820
00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:54,320
Sixers has fundamentally changed because the question you're asking is like,

821
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,239
I mean, you're not framing it this way, but it's like,

822
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,079
oh what if this could this just be a gap

823
00:38:59,159 --> 00:39:03,559
year you know type of thing. And the issue with

824
00:39:03,639 --> 00:39:07,719
that has always been, well, Joel Embiid, you're tied to him, like,

825
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,280
however good he is is, how good you are, however

826
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,079
healthy he is, just determines your chances for success. Like

827
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,000
that's still the same, and it's a lot harder to

828
00:39:16,039 --> 00:39:18,000
believe he's going to be healthy and good going forward.

829
00:39:18,039 --> 00:39:19,920
So that does change the calculus a little bit. But

830
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,719
like you're tied to him anyway, and you just extended it.

831
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,840
So it's like, I think you still need to operate

832
00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:32,960
on the on the assumption that like we're going for

833
00:39:33,039 --> 00:39:36,440
it because we have him. It's just even scarier now

834
00:39:36,679 --> 00:39:41,599
because of how diminished he seems and how like infrequently

835
00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:44,599
he may be available going forward. So like, you know,

836
00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:47,800
and to me, in one way, the conversation about what

837
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,760
the sixer should do hasn't changed at all because that's

838
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,920
always been what it was, but it's just but in

839
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:58,440
another way it has because it's even harder to stomach

840
00:39:58,519 --> 00:40:01,239
the idea that we're tying our whole like next half

841
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,559
decade of roster planning or two embiid because it's just

842
00:40:04,639 --> 00:40:06,639
that's a scarier proposition.

843
00:40:06,159 --> 00:40:11,159
Speaker 1: Now now, is that like playing like it's a weird space,

844
00:40:11,199 --> 00:40:12,880
Because I agree with you that they should still view

845
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,480
it as they need to be buyers. But because of

846
00:40:15,559 --> 00:40:20,119
what's happening, isn't the bar for what for what or

847
00:40:20,159 --> 00:40:24,239
who you need to go after been raised? So in theory,

848
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:25,639
if you want to buy, you have to be even

849
00:40:25,639 --> 00:40:29,239
more aggressive because it takes more stuff to get better players.

850
00:40:29,559 --> 00:40:32,079
Because like I think we could have talked, I'm just

851
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:33,840
trying to think of an like Dorian Phinney Smith as

852
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,840
an example. He still would have been a good addition

853
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:37,960
if they wanted to get him. But if you're looking

854
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,920
at these sixers, you're not viewing Dorian Phinney Smith as

855
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,480
a finishing touch anymore. The bar of that has been raised,

856
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,679
and to then go out and match that bar, especially

857
00:40:47,679 --> 00:40:50,039
when you don't have these higher like you have Kellyer

858
00:40:50,159 --> 00:40:52,519
Bray Junior and you have kJ but like you're not

859
00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:55,639
teaming with these salaries that you can move that get

860
00:40:55,639 --> 00:40:57,599
you an expensive players, So they also need to be

861
00:40:57,639 --> 00:41:02,280
semi cost effective and good enough to elevate what we

862
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,679
all agree is a worse than expected version of this team,

863
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:06,719
the Sixers.

864
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,280
Speaker 2: So it's weird because you're still in kind of like

865
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,920
a middle ground. So let me ask you this, Like,

866
00:41:16,199 --> 00:41:20,239
I agree that the way things have gone this year,

867
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,280
specifically with Embiid and to some extent, George, what you

868
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,320
need to be a true contender accounting for those two

869
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,119
guys is probably more than you would have had they

870
00:41:32,199 --> 00:41:35,920
been healthy and whatever. But like, that can't rise to

871
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,360
the level of like we talk about with Steph sometimes

872
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,039
in Golden State or whatever, or it used to be

873
00:41:41,079 --> 00:41:44,760
the Brunson conversation. It can't be that the Sixers need

874
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,880
someone who's better than Embiid, right, Like, it can't be

875
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,079
that because if that's where you are, you're fucked because

876
00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:53,960
you can't trade for that guy, like at least if

877
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,920
you're talking about when healthy, like top end product whatever.

878
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,519
So it's like again I'm kind of back to like, well,

879
00:41:59,519 --> 00:42:03,400
how different our things really, because it's just it's never

880
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,239
going to be realistic to get someone who's as good

881
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,239
or better than Embiid. And if that is what you need,

882
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,039
in fact, then you should blow this whole thing up

883
00:42:10,079 --> 00:42:12,480
because you're never gonna get that guy. You don't have

884
00:42:12,519 --> 00:42:13,880
the AMMO for that, right.

885
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 1: Right, That's it. They're such a tough spot, which is

886
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,599
I mean our takes on them over the off season

887
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,000
have aged like well, but.

888
00:42:23,559 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 2: That's the situation though, where it's like in a vacuum.

889
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:28,519
All the stuff they did made sense. It's just had

890
00:42:28,559 --> 00:42:31,400
you known Embiid was gonna be this, you probably would

891
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,559
have revalued you probably would have reevaluated everything. Like if

892
00:42:33,599 --> 00:42:37,000
you all the questions we have about Embiid going forward now,

893
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,480
like why are you adding Paul George to that at

894
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,880
his age, at that money? You know, But they're just

895
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,360
they're pot stuck, they're pop committed, and they go as

896
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,000
Embiid goes, and that almost like nothing. We're talking about

897
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,239
picks and stuff like nothing else matters for this team.

898
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: So I'll set the over under on the number of

899
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,840
first round picks that they move at the trade deadline

900
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,880
at point five? Are you taking the over the under

901
00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:58,639
for Philly on that.

902
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 2: I could see him going over because you but I

903
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,159
don't think they're going to trade that twenty eight Clippers pick,

904
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:09,360
So I guess that leaves one of those like crummy

905
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,639
ones from twenty six that's least favorable of like half

906
00:43:11,679 --> 00:43:12,039
the league.

907
00:43:12,559 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: They could also throw like their own two thousand and

908
00:43:16,039 --> 00:43:17,920
what twenty nine first round you want.

909
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: To give up your own picks with with that Embiedix?

910
00:43:20,679 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, what player would get you to

911
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,679
move that Clippers pick right now? That would be something

912
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,679
like would would Portland do figure out the money afterwards?

913
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,719
R W three and Tamani Kamara.

914
00:43:31,519 --> 00:43:37,280
Speaker 2: For that pick? I mean they should uh for the sixers, shouldn't.

915
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: They're also a weird position. I know, Yabuseli's been their

916
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,559
most consistent big just period, and so you probably didn't

917
00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:45,559
expect them to mean it's like, oh, do we need

918
00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:47,440
like another big man on this roster?

919
00:43:47,599 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 2: I mean, like my first thought was that twenty eight

920
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,239
Clippers unprotected pick with Paul George for someone who is

921
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,719
like on a max contract that's actually better than him.

922
00:43:58,079 --> 00:44:00,400
You know, I don't know, I don't know who that is, all.

923
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,000
Speaker 1: Right, who says no Paul George for Tobias Harris and

924
00:44:03,039 --> 00:44:03,639
Paul Reid.

925
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,039
Speaker 2: Everybody runs to the table to get that one done.

926
00:44:08,199 --> 00:44:10,760
Speaker 1: Our next team and final team in this bucket is mine.

927
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,639
The Sacramento Kings grant. They owe their twenty twenty five

928
00:44:14,639 --> 00:44:16,480
first to Atlanta, as we already covered, but just as

929
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,239
a refresher, it will convey to Atlanta if it's top

930
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,920
top twelve protected. It is then top ten protected in

931
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,960
twenty twenty six it turns into two seconds if it

932
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,639
does not convey. They also are sending their twenty and

933
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,599
thirty one first to San Tonio via swap, so they

934
00:44:31,599 --> 00:44:34,199
could still trade that pick. The list of picks that

935
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,639
they could trade are twenty seven, twenty nine, and twenty

936
00:44:37,679 --> 00:44:39,920
thirty one. If you were looking to maximize it, however,

937
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:41,960
in twenty thirty one, it would have to be the

938
00:44:42,039 --> 00:44:44,880
least favorable of their own in San Antonios, and so

939
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,760
what you've effectively done is lowered the value of that

940
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,400
tradeable thirty one first round pick by swapping it. They

941
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,159
can also include up to three swaps, and so if

942
00:44:54,199 --> 00:44:57,199
they really wanted to go balls to the wall, they

943
00:44:57,199 --> 00:44:59,239
could include three first round picks and three swaps. There's

944
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,079
not a player on the trademarkt right now that is

945
00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:05,840
worth doing that, but just as a refresher, However, in

946
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,679
the backdrop of all this, do you view the Kings

947
00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:12,199
as buyers still? Given they've been better since you know,

948
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,519
Doug Christy hit the plague key on Ellis Moore button,

949
00:45:14,559 --> 00:45:16,199
and the Kings seem better off for it.

950
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 2: He knew.

951
00:45:17,119 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of noise about the Aaron Foxes

952
00:45:19,039 --> 00:45:21,480
future now. And if you're the Kings, like you still

953
00:45:21,519 --> 00:45:24,079
just on balance, you have not been as good as

954
00:45:24,119 --> 00:45:26,840
you were hoping to be. Does that make you less

955
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,639
inclined to go out there and make upgrades? Because again,

956
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:31,599
we have to look at this through the lens of

957
00:45:31,639 --> 00:45:33,239
it'd be different if they were just giving up this

958
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:36,679
year's first round pick, but at the earliest they can

959
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:38,519
give up a twenty twenty seven first round pick.

960
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:45,320
Speaker 2: I think their decision making has to depend on how

961
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,000
sincere they think. Dearon Fox is being about the idea

962
00:45:49,039 --> 00:45:51,239
of like, I want to be here, but I need

963
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,280
to see progress type of thing, because sometimes when players

964
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:55,960
say that, it's really just dipping a toe in the

965
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,360
water of like I've seen enough, I'd like to be

966
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:03,119
gone type of thing. So if if it is true

967
00:46:03,159 --> 00:46:07,679
that you in showing Fox that you're serious and looking

968
00:46:07,679 --> 00:46:10,360
to improve, if you can show him that by trading

969
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,079
some of these future picks and being a buyer, I

970
00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:17,480
think you probably want to do that. Granted, that opens

971
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,519
you up to well, we'll see, but potentially having to

972
00:46:20,519 --> 00:46:23,000
pay him the super duper max on his next deal,

973
00:46:23,039 --> 00:46:25,159
which there's just not a lot of guys that that

974
00:46:25,199 --> 00:46:28,239
seems like it's a great decision for from a team perspective.

975
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:31,719
But if you think that what he's really doing and

976
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,800
he's with Clutch, so maybe file that away too. Is

977
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,320
saying like it's just prepping for the trade request to

978
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,559
become official at some point, like he's he's been there

979
00:46:40,599 --> 00:46:43,400
his entire career. He should buy now have a pretty

980
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:45,960
good sense of like how this organization runs.

981
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,679
Speaker 1: That's not good for the way it's yeah, exactly right,

982
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:51,440
I'm kind of leading up to that.

983
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 2: It's like, then if you do think you're just gonna

984
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,679
lose him, I don't think you should be thinking very

985
00:46:56,679 --> 00:46:58,840
hard about buying, even though you're in that middle of

986
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,760
the West where a trade could you know, move you

987
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:05,360
up a tier. But you gotta be really confident that

988
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,000
you can take Fox at his word and then that

989
00:47:08,079 --> 00:47:10,960
if you do go make a buy that will influence

990
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,400
him like backing off that trade request that feels like

991
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:14,960
it's coming.

992
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,760
Speaker 1: I have many fold questions for you. The first of

993
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,760
which is what's more likely the Kings trade a twenty

994
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:24,480
twenty seven first by the deadline, or later maybe one

995
00:47:24,559 --> 00:47:26,679
or more of whatever one or more, or they trade

996
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:27,440
the iron Fox.

997
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,599
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about what the wrong decision would be,

998
00:47:31,039 --> 00:47:33,199
which is probably to trade that twenty seven, because I

999
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,440
do think Fox is angling toward a trades. So I'll

1000
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,039
say it's more likely that you're asking if they're gonna

1001
00:47:38,039 --> 00:47:40,199
be buyers. Essentially, I think it's more likely they trade

1002
00:47:40,199 --> 00:47:41,960
that twenty seven first than they trade Fox.

1003
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,559
Speaker 1: I agree with you, although there's a chance that the

1004
00:47:45,599 --> 00:47:48,400
Fox noise may save them from themselves in the sense

1005
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,599
that they would be too hesitant to do anything, which

1006
00:47:51,639 --> 00:47:54,480
is not of We watched them do nothing last year

1007
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,480
at the trade deadline, so that's not great. But at

1008
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:59,079
the same time, if you trade as you already much,

1009
00:47:59,119 --> 00:48:00,679
if you trade any of these first and then Dean

1010
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,960
and Fox is up and asker out anyway, you better

1011
00:48:03,039 --> 00:48:04,159
hope those picks are protected.

1012
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, I mean you're talking, we're talking about what

1013
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:09,199
a rational actor would do. I think.

1014
00:48:09,639 --> 00:48:13,039
Speaker 1: However, let's just say that Fox says he's gonna stay

1015
00:48:13,079 --> 00:48:15,559
and they can believe him. So now we're looking at

1016
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:18,880
it in those terms, Would you give up your twenty

1017
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,679
twenty seven A twenty twenty seven or later first, depending

1018
00:48:21,679 --> 00:48:25,079
on what happens with this pick to Atlanta? Are you

1019
00:48:25,159 --> 00:48:27,320
giving up that in a trade for Cam Johnson?

1020
00:48:29,639 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 2: Well, I think you'll have to if you want Cam Johnson.

1021
00:48:33,039 --> 00:48:36,559
I think I think Cam Johnson and what it kind

1022
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:39,079
of comes down to, like, is that really the best

1023
00:48:39,159 --> 00:48:41,840
they could realistically do in terms of like what player

1024
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,519
type would help them most? And I mean it's it's

1025
00:48:46,559 --> 00:48:50,039
not far off just given what's actually available, like realistically,

1026
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,079
because they need forwards and he's gonna be a very

1027
00:48:54,079 --> 00:48:57,000
different type of offensive helper than the guys they have.

1028
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,119
So I think I probably would give up that at

1029
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,480
twenty seven or later first for him, but I'd still

1030
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,199
be running. I'd still have like real wouldn't you have

1031
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,639
reservations though, Like we're gonna go get another offensive focused

1032
00:49:09,639 --> 00:49:11,920
guy that like we might run into the same Keegan

1033
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,880
Murray problem where it's like how do we get him shots?

1034
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 1: How do we max what happens what happens to Keigan Murray?

1035
00:49:16,519 --> 00:49:18,519
Speaker 2: As part of yeah, I think you do it right?

1036
00:49:18,679 --> 00:49:20,360
Or do what do you I assume you think they

1037
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,800
should do that if that's on the table, But it's

1038
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,440
not uncomplicated if they do pull something like that off.

1039
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:27,519
Speaker 1: No, it's not uncomplicated because also part of the reason

1040
00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:30,480
is if you're Brooklyn and it's Kevin Herder and Trey

1041
00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:32,800
Lyles and that for a first in twenty seven or

1042
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,079
twenty eight for Cam Johnson, is that the best offer

1043
00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:37,400
you're gonna get for Cam Johnson?

1044
00:49:37,559 --> 00:49:40,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably not, because you're thinking it's gonna take two first, right.

1045
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 1: Potentially, The difference is is that you're not gonna get

1046
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,039
like a twenty seven and twenty nine first, Like, if

1047
00:49:45,079 --> 00:49:46,800
you get a first, it's probably oh, it's a twenty

1048
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,519
twenty five first that's not great, and then a pick

1049
00:49:49,559 --> 00:49:53,400
after that. So I probably would give up the pick

1050
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,239
for Cam Johnson to vacuum, even though I don't. I

1051
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,679
don't think he solves like this team's biggest issues.

1052
00:49:57,519 --> 00:49:58,119
Speaker 2: Right at all?

1053
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,679
Speaker 1: Does make them better and more bad Allen's just because

1054
00:50:00,679 --> 00:50:03,400
they are so guard heavy. I was trying to think of,

1055
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,119
just like would you do that? The other question I

1056
00:50:05,159 --> 00:50:07,239
had before I asked you, like, what would be the

1057
00:50:07,559 --> 00:50:09,480
like ideal player for them to target? Like would you

1058
00:50:09,519 --> 00:50:11,519
do the Jimmy Butler framework? If you're them that we

1059
00:50:11,559 --> 00:50:13,880
outlined where it's you have to figure out the tax

1060
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:15,920
stuff after. But it's if it's Kevin Herd or Trey

1061
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,800
Lyles that twenty seven first that could spill into twenty

1062
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,000
twenty eight plus Damar Derozen, are you doing that for

1063
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:26,760
Jimmy Butler and knowing that it might just be you

1064
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,440
could And let's even say that. I think Jimmy Butler

1065
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,320
will go wherever someone pays him. I think, honestly, I've

1066
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:34,079
seen a lot of Phoenix Suns fans kind of patting

1067
00:50:34,119 --> 00:50:36,280
themselves on the back like stars keep wanting to come

1068
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,239
play here. I was like, well, your owner just said

1069
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:40,440
that they would pay Jimmy Butler money that the Heat won't,

1070
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,000
And so I think other teams can say that Jimmy

1071
00:50:42,039 --> 00:50:44,079
Butler would want to go there too, maybe.

1072
00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 2: So maybe so I would be stunned if if, even

1073
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,719
if offered that extension, he would stay in Sacramento. Just

1074
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,800
oh wow, Okay, I mean, well, I guess like it

1075
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:57,760
depends on what else is out there, But I think

1076
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,519
if another team was willing to come somewhere near that,

1077
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:02,880
who is that would be the question. Because we keep

1078
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,480
talking about how few teams actually have money. I think

1079
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,280
you should probably assume it's a rental, And so you're

1080
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,039
giving up a twenty seven first basically to clear fifty

1081
00:51:12,079 --> 00:51:15,960
million dollars off your cap I suppose, which that's not nothing.

1082
00:51:16,519 --> 00:51:20,760
But if assuming Fox is still there and Sabonis is

1083
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:22,800
still there, and you're gonna have to pay Murray pretty soon,

1084
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,840
although I don't know what that's gonna look like. It's

1085
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,000
not like you're clearing fifty million in cap space that

1086
00:51:27,039 --> 00:51:28,920
you can go spend. You're still you know.

1087
00:51:29,079 --> 00:51:31,239
Speaker 1: Well, the other thing too, is that if you really

1088
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:33,760
wanted to and I know that Jimmy can make stuff noisy,

1089
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,039
but there's no team if you're not willing to play

1090
00:51:37,079 --> 00:51:39,159
ball on a sign in trade, he can't leave. He's

1091
00:51:39,159 --> 00:51:41,039
not going to Brooklyn and then there's no other team

1092
00:51:41,039 --> 00:51:42,599
that could pay him. And so unless he wants to

1093
00:51:42,679 --> 00:51:45,079
leave for the mid level, dare him to do it.

1094
00:51:45,599 --> 00:51:47,079
Speaker 2: So why don't the Heat just do that?

1095
00:51:47,119 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 1: Then you know, well, you would have to at least

1096
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,039
maybe a fresh start. You can convince yourself that he'll

1097
00:51:54,079 --> 00:51:56,519
be if again, if not happy, I hate to use

1098
00:51:56,519 --> 00:52:00,519
the word compliant that like had the subservient implication, but yeah,

1099
00:52:00,679 --> 00:52:04,280
won't make waves, not just but like maybe he would

1100
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:07,000
make waves anyway. Honestly, I would do it because I

1101
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:08,440
would look at it as right, even if he opts

1102
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,639
out and leaves like, well you got Kevin Herder's final

1103
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,480
year off and then you got out of the last

1104
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,679
fully guaranteed year of to martyr. That's the cost is high.

1105
00:52:15,679 --> 00:52:17,440
I want to be clear on twenty twenty seven. First,

1106
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:20,039
but the possibility of like, well what if it's they're

1107
00:52:20,079 --> 00:52:22,119
in California, what if you be Butler? And what if

1108
00:52:22,159 --> 00:52:24,280
they win like not a title, but like what if

1109
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:25,639
they're just really fucking good?

1110
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 2: And then the sign and trade possibility as a way

1111
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,679
to like maybe you get something back, that's yeah, close

1112
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:35,480
to worth that twenty seven First, Yeah, that's not I mean.

1113
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: I would do it. I think we'd be in the

1114
00:52:38,039 --> 00:52:40,039
minority if like, if you have Poled Kings fans, I

1115
00:52:40,119 --> 00:52:43,199
bet you they would probably say no, I would absolutely

1116
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:43,519
do it.

1117
00:52:43,679 --> 00:52:45,599
Speaker 2: I don't know that. That's what I was gonna say.

1118
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:48,000
Next is like I think they might be okay with

1119
00:52:48,039 --> 00:52:49,559
that because I don't think anyone's in love with the

1120
00:52:49,679 --> 00:52:52,519
Rosen at this point, and so it's just like, well, okay,

1121
00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:55,719
we'll just get in another like quote unquote Butler's much

1122
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,400
more of it, Like you don't have to put the

1123
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,480
quote marks around Star so much as with him as

1124
00:52:59,519 --> 00:53:03,119
you do with and if you. I don't know how

1125
00:53:03,159 --> 00:53:05,280
what percentage of fans would think ahead to like, well

1126
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,760
that we've got like downside protection because we can sign

1127
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,239
and trade them for something. I think I think you

1128
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,679
probably have a pretty high approval of that trade A Butler,

1129
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,159
I think I don't know, let.

1130
00:53:15,159 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 1: Us know case.

1131
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:16,800
Speaker 2: Uh.

1132
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,760
Speaker 1: I think the effects of all this is to say

1133
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:23,079
that because of their draft obligations and then the darn

1134
00:53:23,079 --> 00:53:24,880
Fox noise on top of that, I really just think

1135
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:27,280
this increases the likelihood they do absolutely nothing.

1136
00:53:28,039 --> 00:53:30,039
Speaker 2: It kind of balances out a little bit. Yeah, because

1137
00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:33,440
unless they just really know the fuck what the Fox

1138
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,920
situation's gonna shake out, as you've got to be pretty careful.

1139
00:53:37,159 --> 00:53:39,760
Speaker 1: Grant, you're gonna start us off in this new bucket.

1140
00:53:40,119 --> 00:53:41,599
How excited are you? Oh no, wait, we're in the

1141
00:53:41,599 --> 00:53:44,719
same me. I just think that.

1142
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:48,079
Speaker 2: Uh So the Jazz are sending their twenty five first

1143
00:53:48,119 --> 00:53:50,519
to the Thunder with top ten protection. End of conversation,

1144
00:53:53,320 --> 00:53:57,320
it's top eight protected, and do that six and a conversation, Well,

1145
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,239
I mean they might be who knows. That's the real

1146
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,039
question about the Jazz is when are they gonna like

1147
00:54:01,159 --> 00:54:04,000
start getting serious about trying to win games? Yeah, so

1148
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:06,960
top top ten protected this draft, top eight in twenty

1149
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:11,400
six and the obligation not no seconds dan obligation goes poof,

1150
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:13,800
it's gone. It's not gonna be bad.

1151
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,639
Speaker 1: Would it look for OKAC if they don't get this pick,

1152
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,960
like it just turns into nothing, Like what are they

1153
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:20,159
going to do for draft assets?

1154
00:54:20,519 --> 00:54:22,679
Speaker 2: Are will they notice? Do they do the thunder? No,

1155
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,119
they know that they have an incoming Jazz pick. Is

1156
00:54:26,119 --> 00:54:28,159
it like? Is it in a store? Is the is

1157
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,119
the the trade document like that got them this in

1158
00:54:31,199 --> 00:54:34,519
a storage closet somewhere under boxes.

1159
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,199
Speaker 1: When the NBA sends out the draft schedule and they

1160
00:54:36,199 --> 00:54:38,280
see that they're on the clock and you tosspot and

1161
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,599
they're like, oh shit, like like.

1162
00:54:40,639 --> 00:54:43,280
Speaker 2: You guys, look at this, Holy shit? Can you believe it?

1163
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,159
But we all right, I guess we'll make another pick. Yeah, No,

1164
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,559
this is a I mean it's it's they'll keep it

1165
00:54:48,599 --> 00:54:50,800
this year. I don't know. Is the question just like

1166
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,960
what are the odds that the Jazz uh convey next year,

1167
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:56,960
or what are the odds that this pick goes extinguishes?

1168
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,800
Speaker 1: Well, they've been on offense a lot better lately, and

1169
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:01,840
so I think the question is does it in like

1170
00:55:02,159 --> 00:55:04,239
just to ensure because if you look at it, okay

1171
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,519
right now, like, yes, they are slated to keep that pick,

1172
00:55:06,559 --> 00:55:09,639
because they have the fifth worst record in the league,

1173
00:55:10,039 --> 00:55:12,920
But like in theory, you know there are only seven

1174
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,199
losses out of having like maybe one of the lemon

1175
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:19,039
worst records in the league. Does it increase the urgency

1176
00:55:19,079 --> 00:55:21,599
when you're even looking at next year, like to be okay,

1177
00:55:21,639 --> 00:55:23,760
like we gotta trade Collin Sexton, I think would be

1178
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:25,480
the or Jon College just like one of the place

1179
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,480
it shouldn't be Walker Castlaries too young, Like does it

1180
00:55:27,599 --> 00:55:31,760
increase the odds that they move any of their veterans

1181
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:33,800
or you think that they're just again this year and

1182
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:35,880
next year they can be confident that they're bad enough

1183
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:37,199
they don't have to worry about this pick.

1184
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:41,039
Speaker 2: Covey, I think more of the latter. I mean, I

1185
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:45,159
although I would say, like you should be feeling some

1186
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,639
urgency to get off the I mean, unless it's the

1187
00:55:48,679 --> 00:55:51,159
case that you know you there's some reason to believe

1188
00:55:51,159 --> 00:55:53,800
that the market for Collins and Sexton and whoever will

1189
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,679
be just better over the summer or next year, like

1190
00:55:56,760 --> 00:55:59,440
you should you your intention should be the same, like

1191
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:01,199
you should be try trying to move off those guys

1192
00:56:01,199 --> 00:56:05,760
if you can without taking anything bad back. But yeah,

1193
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:09,000
I take I get the point. Like you definitely could

1194
00:56:09,159 --> 00:56:11,480
argue that they should be like real serious about getting

1195
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,559
off those so they just get to keep the pick

1196
00:56:13,599 --> 00:56:15,840
both years. But I don't. I don't think it's going

1197
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,239
to fundamentally change like what what they do.

1198
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: I don't think it needs to. The errors came in

1199
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,079
the previous two seasons where they should have acted earlier

1200
00:56:24,599 --> 00:56:27,000
and more drastically, and just with I know people are like, well,

1201
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,239
like you can get off John Collins's money, what is

1202
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,840
cap Space doing for Utah at this point or for

1203
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:33,679
flexibility aside for being able to lease it out to

1204
00:56:33,679 --> 00:56:36,039
get more draft picks where they just have a shit

1205
00:56:36,119 --> 00:56:38,039
tunne already, Like you could say, if they're right, offer

1206
00:56:38,039 --> 00:56:40,639
for Sexton or Collins or Clarkson comes along, Yeah sure,

1207
00:56:41,039 --> 00:56:43,079
I just don't think their needs. They're gonna be mentioned

1208
00:56:43,079 --> 00:56:46,280
as sellers because they are sellers. But that's also maybe

1209
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,199
part of The problem with the trade deadline market is

1210
00:56:48,199 --> 00:56:50,280
we're talking about teams that might be incentivized to stay

1211
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,760
pat or not sell, and they fall into the latter

1212
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:54,599
where maybe they're not incentivized to do it, but there's

1213
00:56:54,599 --> 00:56:57,079
definitely not an urgency for them, like the Bulls have

1214
00:56:57,159 --> 00:56:58,320
an urgency to sell.

1215
00:56:58,599 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, very different situation for sure.

1216
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:03,360
Speaker 1: Now I lied we get to move on to the

1217
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,880
new bucket. This is teams that are potential buyers who

1218
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,440
own other teams as draft picks. We begin with the

1219
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:13,360
Houston Rockets. They can I think the best way to

1220
00:57:13,559 --> 00:57:15,480
show their argument is because they have a lot of

1221
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,880
convoluted obligations, they can trade up to four outright first

1222
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,480
rounders right just right now, in this moment. In twenty

1223
00:57:23,639 --> 00:57:26,239
twenty five, they can, which is this year, they can

1224
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:30,920
swap its pick or okc's. If OKC exercises their swap

1225
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,519
for Houston, they can swap those picks with Phoenix's pick.

1226
00:57:35,119 --> 00:57:37,599
In twenty twenty seven, they can swap their own pick

1227
00:57:37,639 --> 00:57:40,519
with Brooklyn. Still in twenty twenty seven, they own the

1228
00:57:40,559 --> 00:57:44,360
Suns' pick outright, and in twenty twenty nine they will

1229
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,559
get the more favorable first from Dallas or Phoenix, but

1230
00:57:49,239 --> 00:57:52,079
they also have the option to swap their own pick

1231
00:57:52,119 --> 00:57:54,400
with the less favorable of those two picks. So basically,

1232
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,360
if they want, they can have both Dallas and Phoenix

1233
00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:00,800
pick in twenty twenty nine. So there's the notable obligations

1234
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,639
for them. They are buyers, they're good enough to be buyers,

1235
00:58:05,039 --> 00:58:06,920
but they also just have it. Even with your Barie

1236
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,440
Smith Junior injured. They have a ton of guys. I

1237
00:58:09,519 --> 00:58:12,239
posted a Rockets clip from our discussion a couple podcasts

1238
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,559
ago Rockets fans, not all of them, but they seem

1239
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,199
hell bent on saying that Jalen Green is better than

1240
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,400
Daron Fox right now. I would strongly disagree, but my

1241
00:58:22,519 --> 00:58:25,360
point being, there doesn't seem to be an urgency to

1242
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,800
make a move this season. You could still argue, just

1243
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:32,280
given the state of their half court offense, should you

1244
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,360
give up like a first round pick just to make

1245
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:36,719
some type of up Gradely, what do you think ends

1246
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,000
up happening with this team?

1247
00:58:38,599 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, We've talked about them a fair amount, and I

1248
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:44,119
guess I've gone back and forth. Like the needs are clear,

1249
00:58:45,239 --> 00:58:47,960
you run into the issue of you can't pay all

1250
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,239
these guys. In fact, at least one in Green of

1251
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,039
the guys that they have decided to pay, it's like,

1252
00:58:53,079 --> 00:58:55,119
did you really pay him or did you just kind

1253
00:58:55,119 --> 00:58:58,960
of do the preserve the asset thing. I guess I

1254
00:58:59,199 --> 00:59:02,519
can understand why at least they're broadcasting we're not. I

1255
00:59:02,519 --> 00:59:04,159
guess it's just all we know for sure is they

1256
00:59:04,159 --> 00:59:06,239
don't want to make the Jimmy Butler trade because that's

1257
00:59:06,239 --> 00:59:09,320
which is not very smart. So I don't know that

1258
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,079
that forecloses and I but the implication of that is

1259
00:59:12,079 --> 00:59:14,280
that we're not looking to make a win now trade.

1260
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:16,159
We're not looking to consolidate a bunch of young guys

1261
00:59:16,239 --> 00:59:20,199
or picks for for somebody else. I think that posture

1262
00:59:20,239 --> 00:59:23,000
could change if and when Kevin Durant or Devin Booker

1263
00:59:23,079 --> 00:59:24,960
like start to shake loose like that kind of thing.

1264
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,199
It does feel like they're just obviously because of the

1265
00:59:27,199 --> 00:59:30,719
Phoenix stuff, just like that's that's the move. You know,

1266
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,960
they both sides should be interested in that kind of trade,

1267
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,119
I think. But I I guess I guess maybe at

1268
00:59:38,119 --> 00:59:40,559
the moment, I do believe them that, like they're not

1269
00:59:40,719 --> 00:59:43,559
actually looking to make a move. And if that's a lie,

1270
00:59:43,639 --> 00:59:46,000
then good job, because that's how you create leverage. It's

1271
00:59:46,079 --> 00:59:48,679
just like, oh, we're not interested. But I kind of

1272
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:50,280
I kind of buy that. I kind of buy the

1273
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:53,159
logic of it. You still don't, I mean, we this

1274
00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:55,039
was more true over the off season, but you still

1275
00:59:55,079 --> 00:59:59,000
don't know like what your best combos of all these

1276
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:00,840
young guys are. So this is is still a fact

1277
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,400
finding thing to some extent. So I buy I buy

1278
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:07,880
it that they're not buying, you know, in any significant way?

1279
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:09,079
Are you what do you think?

1280
01:00:09,679 --> 01:00:11,519
Speaker 1: I not only buy that, I think that that is

1281
01:00:11,559 --> 01:00:16,079
the appropriate call. I just you get more information, reevaluate,

1282
01:00:16,119 --> 01:00:19,400
and we recalibrate over the offseason if necessary. Also when

1283
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,280
jailing Green is no longer on a poison pill, regardless

1284
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:23,599
of how high you are in jail and Green, like,

1285
01:00:23,599 --> 01:00:26,079
if you're gonna make a mega trade, he's probably the

1286
01:00:26,119 --> 01:00:28,440
most logical form of outgoing salary, unless you want to

1287
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,440
pick up Fred Vanfleet's team option and go that way.

1288
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:33,440
Brooks as well, they just have so many options. They're

1289
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:35,880
already good. What I would rather see them do is

1290
01:00:36,559 --> 01:00:39,599
hit the read play Read Shepherd button. Dude, Dude, drop

1291
01:00:39,639 --> 01:00:41,760
him forty nine in the g because he just if

1292
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:43,800
read Shepherd is the read Shepherd you, and I thought

1293
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,800
he was coming out of the draft. The Rockets become

1294
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,519
what the No Notes team movie, right, because.

1295
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,599
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, they just need a primary shot creator

1296
01:00:51,639 --> 01:00:53,519
that can space and do all this other stuff like

1297
01:00:53,599 --> 01:00:54,320
there is.

1298
01:00:54,679 --> 01:00:56,760
Speaker 1: So and then if they want to do something. I'd

1299
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,440
be more of a proponent of how many seconds does

1300
01:00:59,480 --> 01:01:02,719
it take to get Buddy healed? Or expirings in seconds?

1301
01:01:02,719 --> 01:01:05,639
For can you get a Duncan Robinson? Guys who aren't

1302
01:01:05,639 --> 01:01:08,239
necessarily guaranteed playing time, but they can help you on

1303
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:10,719
any given night if the offense or matchup warrants it.

1304
01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:13,519
Speaker 2: Now? Is there a player who's not on the market

1305
01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:16,440
right now that might get on the market that would

1306
01:01:16,519 --> 01:01:18,960
change your change the calculus for you at this deadline.

1307
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:21,199
Speaker 1: The more I think about it, I do trust the

1308
01:01:21,239 --> 01:01:23,239
Aaron Pox is shooting more than most I think, like

1309
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,760
as a self create creating shooter. However, I don't even

1310
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:28,239
I told you this on that I don't think I

1311
01:01:28,280 --> 01:01:30,079
would trade for he would make me think. I know

1312
01:01:30,599 --> 01:01:33,320
Rockets fans team against it. From what I saw in

1313
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:37,079
the comment section, LaMelo Ball is the name I look at.

1314
01:01:37,159 --> 01:01:38,960
It's like if Charlotte decides to do some kind of

1315
01:01:39,039 --> 01:01:41,880
weird pivot. I mean, you could argue that they're bad enough,

1316
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:44,400
bad enough with him, excuse me, but they could also

1317
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:46,960
look at themselves and say, what's our pathway to getting

1318
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:49,440
good enough with him? And so that would be the

1319
01:01:49,519 --> 01:01:52,000
name I circle. He fits their timeline. He's on the

1320
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,599
fun Max and under contract for an additional four years

1321
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,800
after this one, So it fits kind of with he's

1322
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,079
not gonna break the bank when it comes to paying others,

1323
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:02,800
like he's not de Aaron Fox is gonna be on

1324
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:05,360
his third contract as an example that in most cases

1325
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:07,679
that's what's gonna happen with a trade like that.

1326
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so are you the green being a poison

1327
01:02:12,039 --> 01:02:14,199
pill guy like makes it it'd be so much easier

1328
01:02:14,199 --> 01:02:16,719
if he had next year's salary that counted as outgoing.

1329
01:02:17,079 --> 01:02:19,760
But like, are you are you sending Shepherd? And like

1330
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,920
what's going to Charlotte? I know you, we haven't like

1331
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,239
talked about this, but like Shepherd has to be in

1332
01:02:24,280 --> 01:02:26,639
that deal if I'm Charlotte, and and.

1333
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: Even yeah, I mean honestly does he If I'm.

1334
01:02:30,239 --> 01:02:32,679
Speaker 2: Charlotte, I yes, I need I need read Shepherd.

1335
01:02:33,039 --> 01:02:36,519
Speaker 1: I would say, yes, I'm not giving up Alpern Shanghun

1336
01:02:36,519 --> 01:02:38,360
who's poison pill. But let's say he's not. I'm not

1337
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,360
giving up Alpern Shangun in that instance. I'm definitely not

1338
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,639
giving up Tarry Easton. I'm definitely not giving up Amed Thompson.

1339
01:02:45,239 --> 01:02:48,000
Everybody else is probably like on the table, but I

1340
01:02:48,039 --> 01:02:52,199
am willing as the rockets to supplement future first rounders

1341
01:02:52,199 --> 01:02:54,719
in lieu of a lot of these other Like if

1342
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:57,480
if you could give up to first and keep Read

1343
01:02:57,559 --> 01:03:01,559
Shepherd instead of giving up Read Shepherd, I probably I

1344
01:03:01,559 --> 01:03:04,320
know LaMelo's already on, Like it's just it becomes a discussion.

1345
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:06,760
But that's is there another name I even thought about?

1346
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,199
This is it's just different, But like they would be

1347
01:03:09,239 --> 01:03:12,039
a really fun Steph Curry team if the Warriors, oh yeah,

1348
01:03:12,039 --> 01:03:14,320
they're come of Jesus moment, that would be sure.

1349
01:03:14,519 --> 01:03:17,719
Speaker 2: I mean I was thinking the the Booker or Durant,

1350
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:20,880
where the like were the names I thought of? But

1351
01:03:21,199 --> 01:03:24,679
and I already mentioned but like, yeah, Fox, LaMelo, I mean,

1352
01:03:24,719 --> 01:03:27,119
I don't Steph Sure, I'm trying to think of like

1353
01:03:27,239 --> 01:03:29,840
what other primary.

1354
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:32,239
Speaker 1: I'm not even trading for Kevin Durant if I'm them,

1355
01:03:32,239 --> 01:03:34,639
that's just so short term. Think about what you need

1356
01:03:34,679 --> 01:03:36,360
to give up to match the money now because of

1357
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,400
the way that your poison pill suggest Like if this

1358
01:03:38,519 --> 01:03:40,719
was the summer and you would talk about, all right,

1359
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:44,000
it's Jalen Green, like I wouldn't even be able to

1360
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:46,400
be this summer. But like I don't know, just the

1361
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:49,000
Kevin Durant timeline. Even Booker this season has played in

1362
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:51,159
a way that I think there's probably Rockets fans that

1363
01:03:51,199 --> 01:03:53,159
think that Jalen Green is just better right now, That's

1364
01:03:53,159 --> 01:03:53,519
not true.

1365
01:03:53,519 --> 01:03:56,599
Speaker 2: I want Fox has been better than Booker this year.

1366
01:03:56,719 --> 01:03:58,880
And if Rockets fans are convinced that Green is better

1367
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:00,639
than Fox, then he's way better than Booker.

1368
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:02,119
Speaker 1: You want to take us to our next team?

1369
01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 2: Yep, we're on too, the Ultimanty's Oklahoma City Thunder, who

1370
01:04:06,519 --> 01:04:08,800
I don't know. Do they have any picks? Yeah they have.

1371
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:11,599
Speaker 1: By the way, I wasn't writing all of it out.

1372
01:04:12,039 --> 01:04:14,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, that would have been this would have been

1373
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,960
a ten page doc if instead eight, if you'd now

1374
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:20,719
all the Thunder picks. Basically, they have all their own

1375
01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:24,920
first next seven, and they can get up to six

1376
01:04:25,039 --> 01:04:30,440
additional first rounders coming from various outside obligations and can

1377
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:34,679
do anything they want. The questions are like when do

1378
01:04:34,719 --> 01:04:38,039
you pull the trigger? Basically because all the same stuff

1379
01:04:38,079 --> 01:04:40,559
we talk about with Houston of like you have to

1380
01:04:40,559 --> 01:04:42,920
pay Jadab, you have to pay Chet, like you really do.

1381
01:04:43,159 --> 01:04:45,599
You really are not that far away from basically being

1382
01:04:45,639 --> 01:04:47,840
like a three max team or close to it. So

1383
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:50,000
you have to consider that it's not just as simple

1384
01:04:50,039 --> 01:04:53,440
as we'll keep drafting first rounders and just pay them forever.

1385
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,480
And they're a great team. You could cite the rebounding,

1386
01:04:57,519 --> 01:05:00,280
you could site into your defense, you could cite eating

1387
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,400
a secondary another well, really for them, just go get

1388
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:07,599
another primary creator because they could. But other than that,

1389
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,079
like I don't know, do they do they need to

1390
01:05:10,079 --> 01:05:13,760
do something? If so, what and like I don't know

1391
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:15,519
what level of player does it need to be to

1392
01:05:15,599 --> 01:05:18,599
justify them kind of getting getting after it and finally

1393
01:05:18,599 --> 01:05:21,000
putting some of these assets on the table there. It

1394
01:05:21,039 --> 01:05:23,519
almost just needs to be someone that has a chance

1395
01:05:23,559 --> 01:05:25,599
to close for them, Like that has to be the

1396
01:05:25,639 --> 01:05:27,280
like if they're gonna do something, And I think it

1397
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,159
still needs to be a shot creator, shot maker, maybe

1398
01:05:30,159 --> 01:05:33,400
preferably one with size, but just someone because as of

1399
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,519
right now, like Jdubb looks overtaxed in the non SGA

1400
01:05:36,639 --> 01:05:37,239
minutes and then.

1401
01:05:37,159 --> 01:05:39,599
Speaker 1: In the playoffs. You know last year he looked over

1402
01:05:39,599 --> 01:05:41,760
at tax just playing like as the second option with

1403
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:43,920
SGA on the court, and so you want to try

1404
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:46,760
and fill that. I'm not chasing that type of an

1405
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:49,559
upgrade right now because you might reach a point where

1406
01:05:49,559 --> 01:05:52,440
you say we can't play that. It's like the Pelicans

1407
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:54,280
party line, like we need to see everybody healthy for

1408
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:56,880
an extended period of time. Maybe you're never gonna get that.

1409
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:59,079
With Chet Holmgren, I'm more optimistic we're not at that

1410
01:05:59,119 --> 01:06:02,440
point yet, but like, wait until at least the offseason

1411
01:06:02,480 --> 01:06:04,960
before you see how the playoffs unfold before you make

1412
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,079
that call. But just the lack of information with what

1413
01:06:07,159 --> 01:06:09,280
you look like when you have one heart and stign

1414
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:11,639
and a homegrown on the court together, but just more

1415
01:06:11,679 --> 01:06:15,440
extensive availability this year from Jay Dubsha and like I

1416
01:06:15,559 --> 01:06:18,639
just can't talk myself into them doing anything. And while

1417
01:06:18,639 --> 01:06:20,599
you could say, like, well, what about doing something more

1418
01:06:20,639 --> 01:06:23,159
minor for them, like a Cam Johnson, they just don't

1419
01:06:23,199 --> 01:06:25,639
have throwaway players when it comes to like going to

1420
01:06:25,639 --> 01:06:29,440
match a Cam Johnson's South even Aaron Wiggins plus Ustman.

1421
01:06:29,599 --> 01:06:31,960
Jay made me think like I don't know that i'd

1422
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:34,679
want to give up Aaron Wiggins.

1423
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:36,639
Speaker 2: Good man, like we can just keep showing up in

1424
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,920
big game like against the Cavs he had like realm

1425
01:06:39,079 --> 01:06:41,400
and that guy's good and on a great contract. Yeah,

1426
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:42,559
that's not a throw in at all.

1427
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 1: And that's the problem because you could also say, well,

1428
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:47,360
like if Aaron Wiggins is playing time, it's not going

1429
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,440
to be a constant, like shouldn't you But would Cam

1430
01:06:49,519 --> 01:06:51,679
Johnson's playing time on this team be a constant? I

1431
01:06:51,679 --> 01:06:52,519
don't fucking know.

1432
01:06:53,559 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 2: So I think that's right. I think like, because what

1433
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,000
do you The counter the question is, if you're trying

1434
01:06:59,039 --> 01:07:02,159
to change that opinion is like what do you lose

1435
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:05,880
by just you know, holding onto this team through the

1436
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:09,119
deadline and like assessing after hopefully everybody's healthy and plays together,

1437
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:11,559
seeing if you need to make a move over the summer.

1438
01:07:11,599 --> 01:07:14,599
I guess the only thing you lose is like you're

1439
01:07:14,599 --> 01:07:16,639
a year closer to having to pay a couple guys

1440
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:20,719
windows And then the more broad like concern of well,

1441
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:23,199
windows are short and they're great now, So like anytime

1442
01:07:23,239 --> 01:07:25,039
you're this good, you should be willing to do whatever

1443
01:07:25,039 --> 01:07:28,320
it takes to get a little better. Like that's that's

1444
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:31,360
somewhat persuasive to me. But but I just think to

1445
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,480
frame it from the perspective of that Cleveland game, which

1446
01:07:34,519 --> 01:07:37,400
was the best game of the year, just awesome across

1447
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:40,440
the board, It's like, oh, this exposed you know, look, man,

1448
01:07:40,719 --> 01:07:43,800
Calves just were dunking all over the place. The rebound deficit.

1449
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:45,960
I'll look the Thunder a fla. It's like the Thunder

1450
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:48,599
didn't have their two best defensive players like and and

1451
01:07:48,679 --> 01:07:50,960
like they're stretch big. Like I don't feel like you

1452
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:53,480
can look at that loss, which was close, and view

1453
01:07:53,519 --> 01:07:55,760
it as a referendum on like what the Thunder need.

1454
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:58,239
It's like, well, yeah, they got too real high a

1455
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:00,239
starter and a high end rotation guy on the bench.

1456
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:01,920
Like it's not an argument that they need to go

1457
01:08:01,960 --> 01:08:04,039
out and make a deal. I'm arguing it's a straw

1458
01:08:04,079 --> 01:08:05,440
man right now. But you get the idea.

1459
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, like what would be the case

1460
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:10,360
or the scenario where it would make sense for them

1461
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,760
to do anything. It would almost have to be not

1462
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:17,039
only does this player fill our biggest knee now, but

1463
01:08:17,079 --> 01:08:20,359
they don't become superfluous once chet is back in your

1464
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:23,000
full strength and so it's basically you need a shot

1465
01:08:23,079 --> 01:08:24,640
creator that plays the three.

1466
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:28,079
Speaker 2: It's kaw Kawhi is available or something, you know, something

1467
01:08:28,279 --> 01:08:28,439
like that.

1468
01:08:29,119 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 1: Look at how many contracts they've.

1469
01:08:32,199 --> 01:08:34,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, well then you're then you're losing Wiggans and Joe

1470
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:37,159
and somebody else you probably don't want to lose. But

1471
01:08:37,199 --> 01:08:39,079
that's the that's the type of player you're talking about,

1472
01:08:39,119 --> 01:08:42,560
where it's like this is an ad, no question, Like

1473
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:44,920
this is a for sure AD. He's gonna play all

1474
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:47,960
the biggest moments. Like there's there's like ten guys in

1475
01:08:47,960 --> 01:08:49,680
the league you could add to this team.

1476
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:52,399
Speaker 1: That that's true for would you have to be like

1477
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,760
would Ogna Nobi even fit like that? Like go get

1478
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:57,359
og O where he's like, well look at what he

1479
01:08:57,479 --> 01:08:59,840
makes and he doesn't provide enough of the shot creation, so.

1480
01:09:00,079 --> 01:09:02,600
Speaker 2: Out no, like what does that? That doesn't solve any

1481
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:05,000
of their problems, which is insane a great player.

1482
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:07,560
Speaker 1: Like throwing money out of the equation like what the

1483
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:09,520
Kawhi leonards is probably the answer. And so it's this

1484
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,560
team should they this team? And your point about the

1485
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:14,960
title windows being fleeting, which we've both made like a

1486
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:19,680
few times, it's they're the exception like them and what Boston. Remember,

1487
01:09:19,680 --> 01:09:22,079
everyone wanted Boston to continue trading, like when you're set

1488
01:09:22,119 --> 01:09:24,000
up the way that they are, and even you can

1489
01:09:24,039 --> 01:09:26,800
probably loop Houston into this there. It's just different with

1490
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:29,359
Houston because their windows not quite open, like they've wedged

1491
01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:31,640
it open a little bit. But and we consider them

1492
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:33,399
a contender, But do you consider them one of the

1493
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:35,600
I would say four or five most likely teams to

1494
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:38,680
win a title. You're putting OKC, Cleveland, Boston in front

1495
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:41,000
of them, for sure. I think if Dallas is gonna

1496
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:42,720
be healthy, So it's a common like those are the

1497
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:46,319
teams where they feel like the exceptions to the window rule.

1498
01:09:46,680 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, a little bit for sure. And the Thunder are

1499
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:51,399
really like the exception because the two guys on rookie

1500
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:53,479
scale deals are their second and third best player, like

1501
01:09:53,520 --> 01:09:56,239
you got you gotta, you got a little while. But yeah,

1502
01:09:56,279 --> 01:09:59,079
I I just don't. I don't see the guy that's

1503
01:09:59,079 --> 01:10:00,680
out there that's available.

1504
01:10:01,199 --> 01:10:06,439
Speaker 1: McHale who McHale Bridges? Would that? I said, I'm not

1505
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:08,840
saying he's available, but I'm like, would that move the Thunder?

1506
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:11,399
And if the Knicks were like, or we're gonna move

1507
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:12,640
mchaal Bridges or something like.

1508
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:15,119
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think you have the Jada problem

1509
01:10:15,159 --> 01:10:17,039
where it's like, oh, he's a little overtaxed as a

1510
01:10:17,319 --> 01:10:19,319
second unit leader like that, right.

1511
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:22,239
Speaker 1: The two of them combined though result and like the

1512
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,560
Karl Anthony Towns without Jaylen Brunson minutes when Michel Bridges

1513
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:27,479
is on the court, although they kind of tether j

1514
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,359
B to Michale when Carl telle I don't have the name.

1515
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:32,479
Kawhi might be the right answer. But then that's when

1516
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:34,119
you get into the money of it all, where how

1517
01:10:34,119 --> 01:10:37,800
would they want to match and they don't have Who

1518
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:41,560
is the closest? Is it Isaiah Joe? Someone making more

1519
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:44,159
than three million dollars? It's Usman Jang, I guess, but

1520
01:10:44,199 --> 01:10:47,600
like who's making real money the mid end contract? Who is?

1521
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:49,920
Who do you view to throw away? Like it's just.

1522
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:52,399
Speaker 2: It's well, you're just choosing between Wiggins and Joe and

1523
01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:54,560
like that's kind of it unless you think, oh, well

1524
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:57,439
they just extended Caruso, Like I clearly they don't view

1525
01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:58,520
him as a throwaway piece.

1526
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:00,760
Speaker 1: Do you think that would be worth consideration if the

1527
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:03,039
nets were willing to do it. So it's Joe and

1528
01:11:03,159 --> 01:11:05,439
Jang and then maybe a first, or is that still

1529
01:11:05,479 --> 01:11:07,479
just like, well, why are for Johnson? Why? Then it's well,

1530
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:08,359
why are we doing that?

1531
01:11:09,359 --> 01:11:11,680
Speaker 2: I mean that's yeah, I probably think pretty hard about

1532
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:14,239
that if I were the Thunder. But it runs into

1533
01:11:14,239 --> 01:11:16,000
the same problem of like, yeah, you got a very

1534
01:11:16,039 --> 01:11:18,399
good player who's probably better than the guys you gave up,

1535
01:11:18,439 --> 01:11:22,760
but like, so he's gonna play, you know, seven more

1536
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,079
minutes a game than Joe did. I guess maybe maybe

1537
01:11:25,079 --> 01:11:26,840
when the margins are as slim as they are at

1538
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:28,840
the top of the contender list, like that's that is

1539
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:29,640
valuable enough.

1540
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:31,840
Speaker 1: But then it's like Joe is the one who like

1541
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:33,840
he'll set screens and fly around, and like that's not

1542
01:11:33,880 --> 01:11:35,199
really Cam Johnson's case.

1543
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:37,159
Speaker 2: No, yeah, different, very different players.

1544
01:11:37,279 --> 01:11:40,239
Speaker 1: We need to move on. Apparently the Orlando Magic are

1545
01:11:40,319 --> 01:11:43,880
my team. They have all of their own first moving forward,

1546
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:47,119
and they own Denver's twenty twenty five first. It's top

1547
01:11:47,159 --> 01:11:50,600
five protected not only this season but through twenty twenty seven,

1548
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:53,720
at which point it would just extinguish no seconds are involved.

1549
01:11:54,359 --> 01:11:57,640
This would have been to me, like you would view

1550
01:11:57,640 --> 01:11:59,640
it as a lower level first that you just include

1551
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,520
to make some type of marginal the moderate upgrade. If

1552
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:05,119
you didn't want to go all in. The Magic are

1553
01:12:05,119 --> 01:12:09,199
fascinating though, because Okay, Paulo Bancaro back, Bronz Wagner not

1554
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:11,560
Mo Wagner out for the year, They've just they've been

1555
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:14,560
banged up. Gogo Mataza has probably been their best big

1556
01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:17,800
at like better than Wendell Carter Junior this year. Do

1557
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:21,800
you view the Magic as a team that should act

1558
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:24,239
or will act at the trade deadline? In general?

1559
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,560
Speaker 2: I kind of view them as a little bit like Houston,

1560
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,720
where it's you're ahead of the you're ahead of schedule.

1561
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:36,239
You can count on being like good to very good

1562
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:39,079
for at least for four or five years, and then

1563
01:12:39,119 --> 01:12:41,680
who knows after that. One guys are more guys around

1564
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:43,600
their second contracts, although like I guess two of them

1565
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:49,079
already are talking about Suggs and Franz. I think the injuries,

1566
01:12:49,199 --> 01:12:52,680
I think, and and the fact that like you're you're good, Uh,

1567
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:56,279
there's there's not I don't feel any urgency, which you

1568
01:12:56,319 --> 01:12:58,560
do have to weigh against. Like, this team's needs are

1569
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:00,600
very clear. This is the defense, it's as great. The

1570
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:03,800
offense needs solutions. So it's like from that perspective, it's

1571
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:06,359
like if you have the right guy out there, you

1572
01:13:06,399 --> 01:13:09,199
maybe just go get them regardless of the timeframe. But

1573
01:13:09,279 --> 01:13:10,880
I don't know who. I don't know that that player

1574
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:15,359
is on the market other than LaMelo or whatever. We again,

1575
01:13:15,880 --> 01:13:18,880
not on the market as far as we know. I

1576
01:13:19,079 --> 01:13:21,520
don't think there's urgency here to be buyers as good

1577
01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:23,239
as as good as the Magic are and as good

1578
01:13:23,239 --> 01:13:26,119
as they might be with everybody back, like you can

1579
01:13:26,159 --> 01:13:28,399
just this is a we're happy with this, we can

1580
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:29,960
just go for it next year type of thing.

1581
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:32,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's kind of stepping on tones of what

1582
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,000
you said. It's also where if they're going to make

1583
01:13:35,039 --> 01:13:38,439
a meaningful improvement, like the bar for it is so high,

1584
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:41,399
similar to Houston or even an Okac that as you

1585
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:44,359
is that player even available? And then in their case

1586
01:13:44,399 --> 01:13:47,279
though even if they are available, can you justify making

1587
01:13:47,319 --> 01:13:50,760
that move without knowing when Frands is going to be back?

1588
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,680
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, can you justify making any this is about

1589
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:57,520
this year move? Really? Is that that's the question? Right? Like?

1590
01:13:57,560 --> 01:13:59,600
And I don't I don't know that you can, And

1591
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:02,159
I don't know you should worry about that because like,

1592
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:05,800
what what reason do we have to believe unless you

1593
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:08,119
think obliques are like a really recurring injury. It's like

1594
01:14:08,159 --> 01:14:10,319
a calf stream, like, why aren't they going to be

1595
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:12,159
just right back in the mix for top four next

1596
01:14:12,239 --> 01:14:14,319
year if they do nothing? You know, and then you

1597
01:14:14,359 --> 01:14:16,479
have more information and then you can really assess, like

1598
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:19,600
and hopefully there's more guys available on the market, so

1599
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:22,119
or not just talking about Anthony Simon's and on and on.

1600
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:25,520
I think I think waiting is just I don't feel urgency.

1601
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 1: If I'm the Magic I still would look to add

1602
01:14:29,239 --> 01:14:34,119
just some type of shooter. Yeah, sure that although you

1603
01:14:34,159 --> 01:14:37,119
know what name might be and we don't. I think

1604
01:14:37,159 --> 01:14:39,600
he is available or would be the Kobe White, Like

1605
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:41,159
the name I have circled for them kind of fits

1606
01:14:41,159 --> 01:14:43,039
their payroll structure at the moment too. And I would

1607
01:14:43,079 --> 01:14:45,760
make that move even without knowing what's going to happen

1608
01:14:45,800 --> 01:14:46,279
with Franz.

1609
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:48,880
Speaker 2: So I think that's the type of movie you could

1610
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:52,600
justify because that's clearly well let's talk about it. That

1611
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:54,479
would be the type of move where you're like, this

1612
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,199
is a piece for us, like a core piece going forward. Right,

1613
01:14:57,239 --> 01:14:59,600
we assume he's going to start next to Suggs, so

1614
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:01,800
we can give up two first or whatever it costs

1615
01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:03,880
for him. But then you have the Bulls problem of

1616
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:07,439
like he's gonna hit unrestricted free agency. So that's that's

1617
01:15:07,439 --> 01:15:10,560
one where you really need to know, like are we

1618
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:13,119
good on this next deal before before you give up

1619
01:15:13,119 --> 01:15:15,000
those two first. But that's the type of player where

1620
01:15:15,039 --> 01:15:17,600
I do think you could justify making it now because

1621
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:19,840
you're not doing it for this year necessary or not

1622
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:20,760
only for this year.

1623
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:23,199
Speaker 1: I think where that gets wonky too, is that in

1624
01:15:23,239 --> 01:15:26,159
most cases, so if you offered your twenty twenty five

1625
01:15:26,199 --> 01:15:28,479
first and the bull excuse me, in the Nuggets twenty

1626
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:30,720
twenty five first for Kobe White, that's not going to

1627
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:32,800
get it done because the Bulls and Beery have their

1628
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:35,800
own twenty twenty five first in that scenario. So with

1629
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:37,680
the Magic you also have to be acquiring someone where

1630
01:15:37,680 --> 01:15:39,600
it's comfortable to give up a pick in twenty six

1631
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:40,159
or later.

1632
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 2: M Yeah, yeah, yeah, that could be. That's fair. Have

1633
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:46,920
fun with this one, Grant, Oh boy, we're onto the

1634
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:50,640
San Antonio Spurs, easy point. They have all their own firsts. Uh,

1635
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:54,359
so they can tank if they want to. Uh, just

1636
01:15:54,359 --> 01:15:56,239
just really look for that next guy around Wimby.

1637
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:58,479
Speaker 1: What would tanking look like for them? Is it just

1638
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:01,680
firing Victor women Yama back to his planet.

1639
01:16:01,399 --> 01:16:04,279
Speaker 2: Is knocking him out of the arena every night. They

1640
01:16:04,319 --> 01:16:06,479
can swap with Boston in twenty twenty eight. There's top

1641
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:09,319
one protection on that one. That's fun. Also can swap

1642
01:16:09,319 --> 01:16:11,600
with Dallas or Minnesota in twenty thirty, can swap with

1643
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:14,840
the Kings in twenty thirty one. They also control the

1644
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:17,239
Hawks first in twenty five, twenty six, and twenty seven.

1645
01:16:17,319 --> 01:16:19,760
Twenty six is a swap. As we mentioned, they have

1646
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:22,880
Charlotte's twenty five first with lottery protection become seconds in

1647
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:25,880
twenty six and twenty seven. They have Chicago's twenty five

1648
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:28,159
first with top ten protection. As we mentioned, that's top

1649
01:16:28,159 --> 01:16:30,520
eight and six and twenty six and twenty seven seconds

1650
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:33,520
in twenty eight, and they have Minnesota's twenty thirty one

1651
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,600
first rounder thanks Rob Dillingham.

1652
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:42,640
Speaker 1: Like by the way that the Spurs shorting the twenty

1653
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:46,279
and twenty four draft class has proven to be pretty smart,

1654
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,279
pretty smart.

1655
01:16:48,720 --> 01:16:50,560
Speaker 2: What are they gonna do? They got? I mean, they're

1656
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:54,079
they're almost in Oklahoma City territory of like if a

1657
01:16:54,119 --> 01:16:56,920
market emerges for a player, they can just kind of

1658
01:16:57,520 --> 01:17:00,960
just beat it with whatever. Although like probably around the league,

1659
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:02,479
the assumption is going to be that the Spurs own

1660
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:04,600
first are not going to be very valuable for the

1661
01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:07,159
next decade or so, so that hurts them a little bit.

1662
01:17:07,199 --> 01:17:09,840
That's also true of the Thunder and really any team

1663
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:12,800
that that's positioned that way. But like, you could just

1664
01:17:13,159 --> 01:17:16,039
you could just fire off all these other incoming first

1665
01:17:16,079 --> 01:17:17,920
if you wanted to, and still have the best the

1666
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:20,279
best offer for a lot of guys. I guess it's

1667
01:17:20,319 --> 01:17:22,000
just a question of like when you pull the trigger

1668
01:17:22,119 --> 01:17:24,439
really right, like and it they can afford to wait

1669
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:26,920
because they have the best They have the guy who's

1670
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:28,119
going to be the best player in the world in

1671
01:17:28,159 --> 01:17:28,840
like three years.

1672
01:17:29,119 --> 01:17:31,560
Speaker 1: Who's my question. Here's my question, And I ask it

1673
01:17:31,640 --> 01:17:34,479
this way because they, as you kind of alluded to,

1674
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:37,000
it's not just about they could have the best offer

1675
01:17:37,039 --> 01:17:39,479
for player ACKs available. They have the assets to create

1676
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:40,920
their own trade market.

1677
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:43,600
Speaker 2: Right, which by we say that a lot, but like

1678
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:46,720
what you mean by that is this player is not available,

1679
01:17:47,079 --> 01:17:49,279
pub or whatever, but the Spurs show up and say,

1680
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:51,960
guess what we have for you, and then suddenly that

1681
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:54,399
player is available. Like that's that's what that means.

1682
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:57,199
Speaker 1: Right. They could get the Kings to trade the Iron

1683
01:17:57,279 --> 01:18:00,399
Fox right now. They could get the Bulls to trade White.

1684
01:18:00,439 --> 01:18:02,640
They could probably get the Hornets to trade LaMelo Ball.

1685
01:18:02,680 --> 01:18:05,520
That one might be a little bit more. If you're so,

1686
01:18:06,359 --> 01:18:08,920
you're saying they can't afford to wait, should they? Though

1687
01:18:09,319 --> 01:18:12,760
Victor Yama is one of the he's at least one

1688
01:18:12,800 --> 01:18:15,239
of the ten best players in the NBA right now.

1689
01:18:16,079 --> 01:18:18,720
We talk a lot about fleeting windows. He has not

1690
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:20,800
proven to be injury prone. But when you're dealing with

1691
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:24,359
someone this much of a physical anomaly, that has to

1692
01:18:24,359 --> 01:18:25,800
be in the back of your mind a little bit.

1693
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:28,800
And even if it's not just the idea of we

1694
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:30,600
have one of the ten best players in the NBA

1695
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:35,119
right now, that could be a license for patients, it's

1696
01:18:35,159 --> 01:18:36,800
also a license for urgency.

1697
01:18:37,079 --> 01:18:40,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, I think a couple of things. And

1698
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:42,560
this is like just this is how it's always going

1699
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:44,000
to be, or will be for a while. When you

1700
01:18:44,039 --> 01:18:46,039
have to talk about Wemby and like what you do

1701
01:18:46,159 --> 01:18:49,800
around him, like the rest of the Spurs roster is

1702
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:53,720
like is just objectively not close to being like a

1703
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:56,039
like who else on the current Spurs roster? Are you

1704
01:18:56,079 --> 01:19:00,520
like that guy's closing a finals game? And that does Yeah,

1705
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:04,600
for you, it's Stephan Facell, easy peasy. But I think

1706
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:08,119
for most people it's like maybe nobody, maybe Stefan Castle

1707
01:19:08,159 --> 01:19:10,439
in five years, but that's like, okay, so maybe any

1708
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:12,520
maybe a junior in high school right now that we

1709
01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:15,279
haven't seen yet in five years, Like that's equally plausible.

1710
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:21,119
I do think like the fact that he's there means

1711
01:19:21,119 --> 01:19:23,720
that the level of players you need around him is lower.

1712
01:19:24,239 --> 01:19:32,600
So it's like, if it's me, I am not in

1713
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:35,560
love with anyone on the current market enough to justify

1714
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:38,680
like really buying almost at all. And I think what

1715
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:43,039
I'm doing is waiting at least until summer, maybe till

1716
01:19:43,079 --> 01:19:47,880
the next deadline, doing marginal stuff like the Barnes acquisitions,

1717
01:19:48,039 --> 01:19:50,560
think things like that, and I'm just still I'm gonna

1718
01:19:50,560 --> 01:19:53,520
bide my time, like for maybe one more year, but

1719
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:56,920
after that, I do think it's go time, assuming Wemby

1720
01:19:56,960 --> 01:19:59,760
continues on this trajectory and stays healthy, because you're right,

1721
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:03,239
he's at a level now where I don't it doesn't

1722
01:20:03,239 --> 01:20:05,119
matter how old he is or like where he is

1723
01:20:05,239 --> 01:20:07,920
contract wise, it's like you got, you got the guy,

1724
01:20:08,119 --> 01:20:11,079
like you got the hard part's done and you don't know,

1725
01:20:11,279 --> 01:20:14,159
like now just you can't be thinking about, oh, let's

1726
01:20:14,199 --> 01:20:16,960
wait till let's time this to when Okase falls off,

1727
01:20:17,079 --> 01:20:19,239
or like let's wait till the Celtics get too expensive,

1728
01:20:19,239 --> 01:20:21,319
and after bat it's like, no, you gotta just you

1729
01:20:21,359 --> 01:20:23,960
got to start shooting your shot by like by let's

1730
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:26,199
say by this time next year. You have to get serious,

1731
01:20:26,239 --> 01:20:26,880
I think, But.

1732
01:20:26,800 --> 01:20:30,640
Speaker 1: Not yet now is it in all or nothing proposition

1733
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:32,920
with them to where you wouldn't split any of these

1734
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:34,840
assets up? And it's like, well, they didn't do anything

1735
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:36,760
that mortgages their future or someone they have to pay

1736
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:39,640
a boatload of money moving forward. But this player X

1737
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:42,760
player why they acquire at the twenty twenty five deadline.

1738
01:20:43,079 --> 01:20:45,199
You're not sure that they make them better. And maybe

1739
01:20:45,239 --> 01:20:48,319
you got off Zach Collins's contract in the process, but

1740
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:51,880
you're not necessarily a capsock contender, but you are better. Well,

1741
01:20:52,199 --> 01:20:56,199
I mean, if you could give up Atlanta's if you

1742
01:20:56,199 --> 01:20:58,840
could give up two first round picks to get where

1743
01:20:59,039 --> 01:21:01,640
just even in twenty twenty five first round, or just

1744
01:21:01,680 --> 01:21:04,479
one of these actual first round picks, not that Charlotte

1745
01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:07,039
first round pick, to get somebody who helps you now,

1746
01:21:07,079 --> 01:21:10,359
but he's not Wenby's co star. He makes you better

1747
01:21:10,399 --> 01:21:12,479
as a making a contender. Are you considering doing it

1748
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:15,920
just to then say, like, let's get Lenby to play

1749
01:21:16,079 --> 01:21:18,760
in progressively more meaningful basketball game so that he is

1750
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:20,880
even ready when we go and make this all in move.

1751
01:21:21,159 --> 01:21:25,840
Speaker 2: So just so like we're talking about the third or Cam.

1752
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:28,520
Speaker 1: Johnson being if you just said trade two first and

1753
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:31,359
a contract you don't want, Like, let's say that Nets

1754
01:21:31,399 --> 01:21:33,239
are willing to do Zach Collinson too first for Cam

1755
01:21:33,319 --> 01:21:36,279
Johnson just as a framework. Is that something you're looking

1756
01:21:36,319 --> 01:21:39,199
at that's not even close to you being finished? Is

1757
01:21:39,239 --> 01:21:40,840
that something you're doing anyway? Though?

1758
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:43,960
Speaker 2: I guess I guess I could see the logic of

1759
01:21:44,039 --> 01:21:46,680
if we're viewing Johnson as like a fifth starter on

1760
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:49,319
whatever great version of the Spurs team we're gonna build

1761
01:21:49,319 --> 01:21:52,760
over the next three years or whatever, and that's the

1762
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:54,640
cost of it. Yeah, you definitely don't need to be

1763
01:21:54,680 --> 01:21:56,880
like we're holding we're gonna do something that costs us

1764
01:21:56,960 --> 01:21:59,479
seven first rounders, like that's that's that's what we're keeping

1765
01:21:59,479 --> 01:22:01,960
all this power drive for. You can start like peeling

1766
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,000
away some of these assets because you have so many,

1767
01:22:04,199 --> 01:22:06,159
you can still go make the Godfather off or after

1768
01:22:06,199 --> 01:22:08,800
you do this hypothetical Johnson trade. I guess I'm okay

1769
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:12,039
with that. I I I just think more broadly though,

1770
01:22:12,119 --> 01:22:15,760
like there's gonna be another Cam Johnson, and I like

1771
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:19,159
just because he's the best name, Champagnie, because he has

1772
01:22:19,319 --> 01:22:26,279
already on the team. Maybe like I I just because

1773
01:22:26,560 --> 01:22:29,680
I just think the market sucks this this deadline. So

1774
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:32,880
it's like, yeah, Cam Johnson, it seems like the best

1775
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:35,239
plug and play fit. But it's like there'll be a

1776
01:22:35,279 --> 01:22:38,279
guy next year that's at least as good summer and

1777
01:22:38,319 --> 01:22:40,600
maybe cheat or this summer or whatever. So if you

1778
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:44,640
I don't, I don't know why you why you think

1779
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:47,119
you've gotta have Cam Johnson this year unless it's like, well,

1780
01:22:47,119 --> 01:22:49,000
we're also gonna get off Zach Collins deal or there's

1781
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,359
the other benefits to it. Maybe that that could push

1782
01:22:51,399 --> 01:22:53,039
you that way, But you know what I mean, I don't.

1783
01:22:53,079 --> 01:22:55,920
I just don't. I don't feel urgency yet. But it

1784
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:59,319
won't be long until it's like one hundred percent let's go, Hi.

1785
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:00,800
I just don't feel like they're there yet.

1786
01:23:01,279 --> 01:23:04,640
Speaker 1: I guess I would say I'm not giving up multiple

1787
01:23:04,640 --> 01:23:07,239
first round picks as the spurs for a non star.

1788
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:09,720
I think the team. The Knicks went the extreme when

1789
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:12,479
they did that for Mchal Bridges, but for Michael they

1790
01:23:12,479 --> 01:23:14,840
were good enough to say, we'll give up multiple first

1791
01:23:14,920 --> 01:23:16,560
round picks or someone who's not going to be our

1792
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:20,840
second best player probably yea, probably banking on him being that.

1793
01:23:21,159 --> 01:23:24,640
Speaker 2: And he's like the last the quote unquote last piece too,

1794
01:23:24,680 --> 01:23:26,479
if you know what I mean, Like, Okay, this is

1795
01:23:26,520 --> 01:23:29,960
the although like if you had how far are the

1796
01:23:29,960 --> 01:23:32,319
Spurs really from where the Knicks were? Pretty far from

1797
01:23:32,359 --> 01:23:34,479
where the Knicks were pre Bridges trade that that's not

1798
01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:37,920
a fair comparison. Yeah, I'm not. I agree with you.

1799
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:42,039
I'm not giving up multiple firsts for someone unless.

1800
01:23:41,479 --> 01:23:43,640
Speaker 1: As a non star. Yeah, I mean you got Cam

1801
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:45,680
Johnson for one, for like if that's what it ends

1802
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:47,760
up being. And that's just he's the name that's being

1803
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:49,880
banning about all the times. It doesn't because even here's

1804
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:54,560
the question who what player archetype is the one they

1805
01:23:54,560 --> 01:23:56,560
should be prioritizing.

1806
01:23:57,039 --> 01:23:59,920
Speaker 2: Literally anything like that's that's where they are still right

1807
01:24:00,119 --> 01:24:03,399
like this this rosters so unfinished, and you have so

1808
01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:05,880
much leeway to like mess around with what when Ben

1809
01:24:05,920 --> 01:24:08,680
Yama can enable you to do from a roster building perspective,

1810
01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:12,319
It's just like they need like they need a true

1811
01:24:12,359 --> 01:24:14,239
point guard, they need three and D wings, they need

1812
01:24:14,279 --> 01:24:14,920
a stretch.

1813
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:17,279
Speaker 1: Like there's you could do anything if and when it

1814
01:24:17,319 --> 01:24:19,560
reaches this point, I'll say, when it reaches this point,

1815
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:21,600
probably some time before February six, should they be a

1816
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:23,319
Kevin Durant team.

1817
01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:25,840
Speaker 2: Just just go for it this year?

1818
01:24:26,359 --> 01:24:30,079
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, that might be the one where it's, Okay,

1819
01:24:30,079 --> 01:24:33,319
we gave up what money that you weren't gonna keep

1820
01:24:33,359 --> 01:24:35,560
anyway moving forward to get him? And how many first

1821
01:24:36,119 --> 01:24:39,159
does it take? And like would you let Jeremy Sohan

1822
01:24:39,319 --> 01:24:41,079
be the deal? Brett, Well, we're not gonna give up.

1823
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:44,079
I mean maybe like you're giving up. It'd be Barnes

1824
01:24:44,199 --> 01:24:47,880
Collins another set like so hand And then what too for?

1825
01:24:48,039 --> 01:24:49,880
Is that too much for Kevin Durant, Like you're gonna

1826
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:51,359
go Zach Collins in the process?

1827
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:56,600
Speaker 2: Mm, just like why do you want just just to

1828
01:24:56,680 --> 01:24:59,560
get Wemby those like those high level games a little sooner?

1829
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:02,479
Speaker 1: You don't think Kevin Durant would make them like Webby

1830
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:06,000
and Kevin Durant, like plus Vaselle is not a contender year.

1831
01:25:06,079 --> 01:25:08,840
Speaker 2: I think Kevin Durant's in his mid thirties and you

1832
01:25:08,880 --> 01:25:10,439
don't know what you're gonna get out of him. Year

1833
01:25:10,479 --> 01:25:12,359
to you, that's what I would say for the rest

1834
01:25:12,399 --> 01:25:12,920
of this year.

1835
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:16,720
Speaker 1: I first, I'd be curious because in a vacuum, Phoenix

1836
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:20,079
doesn't take that deal. They trade Kevin because Kevin Durant

1837
01:25:20,119 --> 01:25:20,520
wants out.

1838
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:24,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, they want Steph Castle back to probably and all

1839
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:25,359
kinds of stuff.

1840
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:28,000
Speaker 1: Grant been farewell to this bucket. We reach our final

1841
01:25:28,039 --> 01:25:30,640
bucket that has a bunch of teams, and the theme

1842
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:34,039
of this bucket is teams that may be motivated to

1843
01:25:34,079 --> 01:25:37,319
trade distant first round picks and swaps. Our first team

1844
01:25:37,399 --> 01:25:39,239
highlighted I kind of picked as a troll job because

1845
01:25:39,279 --> 01:25:43,000
it's the Cleveland Cavaliers. They can trade their twenty thirty

1846
01:25:43,039 --> 01:25:46,640
one first rounder or swap in twenty thirty. I saw

1847
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:50,439
someone on Blue Sky say people hate covering the Calves

1848
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:53,760
this year because there's no controversy even like, think about

1849
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:56,960
the conversation we just had about a contender in Okay. See,

1850
01:25:57,199 --> 01:25:59,119
there's not even that level of discussion to have with

1851
01:25:59,199 --> 01:26:02,399
Cleveland because they don't have the assets to have that discussion.

1852
01:26:02,720 --> 01:26:04,680
And so this is not a team when you look

1853
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:06,800
at who's available, what they could do, what they what

1854
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:10,560
they need quote unquote in needs. There should be no

1855
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:15,399
motivation to trade either of these two assets, correct, No?

1856
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:18,119
Speaker 2: I mean, like, yeah, we thought the Donovan Mitchell extension

1857
01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:21,800
was the was was the main like controversy remover the

1858
01:26:21,800 --> 01:26:23,880
fact that they just don't have any picks to trade

1859
01:26:24,039 --> 01:26:26,520
is the other one. This team, this is a team

1860
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:29,840
you just like fast forward as is to the playoffs.

1861
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:32,199
Have everybody healthy and let's see because they're you know,

1862
01:26:32,359 --> 01:26:33,479
they're obviously good enough.

1863
01:26:34,399 --> 01:26:36,840
Speaker 1: There if the Nets room willing to trade Cam Johnson

1864
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:39,039
for twenty thirty and twenty thirty one like the swap

1865
01:26:39,039 --> 01:26:40,880
and that pick, would that just be might as well

1866
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:43,600
just accumulate the talent because you're sending you'd send out

1867
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:46,039
George Niang is part of that deal. But then you

1868
01:26:46,119 --> 01:26:47,840
get to the money by saying, oh, like all of

1869
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:49,800
a sudden, we need to include a Karis Lavert or

1870
01:26:49,840 --> 01:26:51,840
an Isaac o Korom. Both those dudes have been pretty

1871
01:26:51,880 --> 01:26:53,119
valuable to what they're doing.

1872
01:26:53,279 --> 01:26:55,800
Speaker 2: This is this is a hands off team for sure.

1873
01:26:55,920 --> 01:26:58,000
Speaker 1: To me, that was easy for me. Who's up for you,

1874
01:26:58,079 --> 01:26:58,920
mister Hughes, Oh?

1875
01:26:59,079 --> 01:27:02,359
Speaker 2: Just the Denver Nuggets they can. Let's start with the positives.

1876
01:27:02,399 --> 01:27:05,000
They can trade their twenty thirty one first rounder, which

1877
01:27:05,039 --> 01:27:08,199
is conditional on this year's pick going to the Magic

1878
01:27:08,239 --> 01:27:11,000
with top five protections, twenty seven pick going to the

1879
01:27:11,039 --> 01:27:13,640
Thunder of top five protection twenty nine pick going okay,

1880
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:16,640
so like and then okay, other good news. They have

1881
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:18,920
swaps they can trade in twenty six, twenty eight, and thirty.

1882
01:27:19,239 --> 01:27:21,399
And if you don't think swaps are valuable, the Phoenix

1883
01:27:21,479 --> 01:27:24,319
Sun's got one Bradley Beal and that wonderful contract and

1884
01:27:24,399 --> 01:27:26,239
no trade clause by trading a bunch of swaps.

1885
01:27:26,560 --> 01:27:28,520
Speaker 1: And I think you could also argue that the Celtics

1886
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:34,159
built a championship team on the like odd dear White sap. Yeah, well, no,

1887
01:27:34,199 --> 01:27:36,720
I need Jalen Bred. Was it Jalen Brown the result

1888
01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:37,359
of a swap?

1889
01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:41,520
Speaker 2: Oh? I don't remember. Well, Tatum was a trade, but

1890
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:44,920
you know, I can't remember if that was a result

1891
01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:45,279
of a swap.

1892
01:27:45,319 --> 01:27:47,119
Speaker 1: Oh. Look, I'm pretty sure Jalen Brown was the result

1893
01:27:47,199 --> 01:27:47,880
of a swap though.

1894
01:27:48,119 --> 01:27:53,079
Speaker 2: So the Nuggets are a team that obviously needs uh something.

1895
01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:55,920
They need some depth, they need to not keep losing

1896
01:27:56,600 --> 01:28:01,439
rotation pieces. So like, so what's a twenty thirty one.

1897
01:28:01,840 --> 01:28:05,560
That's not even that has to be conditionally conveyed like

1898
01:28:06,159 --> 01:28:09,159
and attached to whom? What's that getting you?

1899
01:28:09,399 --> 01:28:09,760
Speaker 1: Is?

1900
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:14,319
Speaker 2: Is that enough? Presumably the salary? Zeke Also, by the way,

1901
01:28:14,439 --> 01:28:17,039
do you know Zeke Nase's extension started this year?

1902
01:28:18,359 --> 01:28:20,399
Speaker 1: I for some yeah, I knew it started, but for

1903
01:28:20,399 --> 01:28:22,600
some reason I thought he signed it forever ago, which

1904
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:24,000
that doesn't make any sense.

1905
01:28:24,279 --> 01:28:28,199
Speaker 2: Well, deliver, No, it doesn't make sense. So Nause and

1906
01:28:28,239 --> 01:28:31,479
Saruch are like, you're matching salaries. I guess you've got

1907
01:28:31,479 --> 01:28:36,239
those swaps. You're you're limited unless you're gonna go mpju,

1908
01:28:36,960 --> 01:28:39,920
which again you've brought it up, like who's clamoring for

1909
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:45,079
that contract? You're looking at like slightly over mid level

1910
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:48,399
kind of money type type of player that you could

1911
01:28:48,399 --> 01:28:52,960
bring back. Are there other guys they should be thinking

1912
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:56,760
of trading? Just kind of like, what's a realistic expectation

1913
01:28:56,880 --> 01:29:00,680
for what Denver can do with its limited pick assets, salaries?

1914
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:03,600
And like should they just not do anything? Like should

1915
01:29:03,640 --> 01:29:06,159
they just like just have one pick that's not promised

1916
01:29:06,199 --> 01:29:06,680
to somebody?

1917
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:09,359
Speaker 1: Well, I think the issue there is what is the

1918
01:29:09,399 --> 01:29:11,760
best you Let's say they include a swap and a

1919
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:15,319
conditional twenty thirty one first round pick attached to Dario

1920
01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:18,760
Sharz and Zeke Najy. What is like the like, what

1921
01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:22,000
is the player in that salaries and that you could get?

1922
01:29:22,039 --> 01:29:24,000
And so I think if they're gonna do anything meaningful

1923
01:29:24,079 --> 01:29:26,479
unless they're just viewing that as a vehicle to get

1924
01:29:26,479 --> 01:29:29,479
off of Zeke Nagy and Dario Sars, which would just

1925
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:34,399
be they will get justifiably destroyed if that happens. Like,

1926
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:37,960
are you thinking about including a Julian Strother or even

1927
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:40,840
a probably not Watson, seems like he has more upside

1928
01:29:40,840 --> 01:29:42,359
and you kind of know when Christian Brown is at

1929
01:29:42,359 --> 01:29:45,720
this point, like if you included Christian Brown, could you

1930
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:48,560
get a sexy enough player to where it's, oh, like

1931
01:29:48,600 --> 01:29:50,560
we feel like the title window, Okay, you've now shortened

1932
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:54,319
that window, but you've you've actively you've actively kept it open,

1933
01:29:54,359 --> 01:29:56,399
which you're not really sure if it's open at the moment.

1934
01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:59,039
They're just they're in such a weird spot because I

1935
01:29:59,039 --> 01:30:02,479
don't know who the best because when you're including that

1936
01:30:02,600 --> 01:30:05,000
type of a pick, even conditionally that far out, you'd

1937
01:30:05,079 --> 01:30:08,000
expect to get someone who's probably like the sixth or

1938
01:30:08,039 --> 01:30:09,359
seventh best player on your team.

1939
01:30:09,399 --> 01:30:10,720
Speaker 2: Still, Yeah, I don't know if.

1940
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:12,479
Speaker 1: There's a guarantee they could do that because some of

1941
01:30:12,520 --> 01:30:15,199
the money they would be sending out is just viewed

1942
01:30:15,239 --> 01:30:19,560
so negatively around the league because it's negative value.

1943
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:22,680
Speaker 2: Well, just like let's say it's Nase, Sarrich, and Brown,

1944
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:25,199
which brings the issue up of that the team taking

1945
01:30:25,199 --> 01:30:28,319
on three contracts is probably dumping somebody too, So there's

1946
01:30:28,359 --> 01:30:32,479
that cost. It's like, are you getting anyone by combining

1947
01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:35,199
those three and a thirty one first? That's like definitely

1948
01:30:35,199 --> 01:30:38,680
better than Brown by himself. It's like, yeah, you're the

1949
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:42,239
benefit is you're off of Sarich and Nase. I just

1950
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:45,279
I just don't see. I don't know who that is.

1951
01:30:45,359 --> 01:30:47,520
I don't know that that's actually a possibility.

1952
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:50,119
Speaker 1: Do you would there be a team like if they

1953
01:30:50,119 --> 01:30:52,560
included multiple swaps and I think the one that I

1954
01:30:52,600 --> 01:30:55,600
came up with like a month or two ago, if

1955
01:30:55,640 --> 01:30:59,479
you could send Nase and Sharich to Charlotte along with

1956
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:05,039
two swap for Nick Richards and Cody Martin. Who's saying, no,

1957
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:08,119
these are swaps, they're not out right first rounders.

1958
01:31:08,399 --> 01:31:10,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's the thing. If you're going to

1959
01:31:11,079 --> 01:31:13,560
Charlotte like, what are the odds Charlotte's gonna take advantage

1960
01:31:13,560 --> 01:31:14,880
of either of those swaps?

1961
01:31:15,159 --> 01:31:18,760
Speaker 1: You know, the swaps in twenty eight and thirty twenty.

1962
01:31:19,079 --> 01:31:21,439
Speaker 2: Well, if I'm Charlotte, I definitely want the back end

1963
01:31:21,479 --> 01:31:23,319
of that. I don't want twenty six is like, there's

1964
01:31:23,399 --> 01:31:26,479
almost no chance that that's for sure, that's zero, that's

1965
01:31:26,479 --> 01:31:28,399
a useless Honestly.

1966
01:31:28,039 --> 01:31:30,159
Speaker 1: If you're Denver, you can include that as well, just

1967
01:31:30,159 --> 01:31:32,039
to say, like, to the other team, we gave you

1968
01:31:32,079 --> 01:31:35,079
three swaps, even though optically that would look terrible, but

1969
01:31:35,119 --> 01:31:36,960
functionally I don't think it would change.

1970
01:31:37,199 --> 01:31:39,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean both of those guys would be upgrades

1971
01:31:39,479 --> 01:31:43,199
on the rotation, right like you marginally probably, although Richards

1972
01:31:43,199 --> 01:31:46,520
would be quite a bit better than anything backup big wise.

1973
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:49,119
That although then the argument is like, well, how much

1974
01:31:49,119 --> 01:31:51,600
does that really matter because Aaron Gordon's gonna play backup

1975
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:54,079
center in all the games that the Nuggets really care about,

1976
01:31:54,159 --> 01:31:54,720
and it's.

1977
01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:58,479
Speaker 1: Cody Martin helps you survive the regular season, particularly on defense,

1978
01:31:58,520 --> 01:32:01,359
but he's not gonna be winning. Are playing closing minutes?

1979
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:04,960
Speaker 2: Yeah? That that really is the other issue with Denver

1980
01:32:05,039 --> 01:32:07,319
is it's like they they know who's going to be

1981
01:32:07,319 --> 01:32:10,239
on the floor in big playoff moments, like those guys

1982
01:32:10,279 --> 01:32:13,079
are already there probably and they don't think they can

1983
01:32:13,119 --> 01:32:15,600
get someone that would change that with what they have.

1984
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:17,520
So it's like, how much do.

1985
01:32:17,439 --> 01:32:20,560
Speaker 1: We care about me better than I would say, because

1986
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:22,720
Jamal Murray's just penciled in No matter how you fee

1987
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:24,600
about Jamal Murray at this point, you're just been playing better.

1988
01:32:25,199 --> 01:32:27,239
They have to be better than Christian Brown or Peyton

1989
01:32:27,279 --> 01:32:32,359
Watson essentially, Well, right, I mean, I'm.

1990
01:32:32,199 --> 01:32:34,800
Speaker 2: Just talking like you're closing five in a playoff game.

1991
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:40,600
Is is Murray, Brown, MPJ Gordon, and Jokich? So Watson's

1992
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:43,199
probably the sixth guy, and then I guess Russ is seven.

1993
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:48,800
I don't think I'm forgetting anybody, so like I guess,

1994
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:51,279
I guess. I guess there's value in upgrading a guy

1995
01:32:51,319 --> 01:32:55,720
that's like your six seventh, eighth best player, but like,

1996
01:32:56,399 --> 01:32:58,800
can you do that with what they have? I guess

1997
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:00,920
if you're throwing all the swap out there, that does

1998
01:33:01,039 --> 01:33:03,279
change things, but you're still dealing with like such limited

1999
01:33:03,319 --> 01:33:04,119
matching salary.

2000
01:33:04,800 --> 01:33:06,600
Speaker 1: I guess though part of that because you could look

2001
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:08,159
at it and say, well, they just gave up two

2002
01:33:08,159 --> 01:33:10,680
swaps to get Cody Martin and Nick Richards who are

2003
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:14,239
backups for them, But you're also getting off Naugs money

2004
01:33:14,239 --> 01:33:16,920
and then Sarches money, which you know that was a

2005
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:20,640
self They're in this self dug hole with those But okay,

2006
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:23,279
that's the time to undo it. Is like there's no

2007
01:33:23,399 --> 01:33:25,119
undoing it. It's like you can't. You have to view

2008
01:33:25,159 --> 01:33:27,119
that as some cost. So do you view it as

2009
01:33:27,600 --> 01:33:29,720
all right? Well, Richards and Martin, like if they were

2010
01:33:29,720 --> 01:33:31,399
to stick around, they would have more value if we

2011
01:33:31,439 --> 01:33:33,520
need to make matching salary on an additional trade, Like

2012
01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:35,840
is it worth it? I mean, Zetagy has three more

2013
01:33:35,920 --> 01:33:37,880
years left on that contract. One.

2014
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:40,800
Speaker 2: It's brutal to be as good as they are and

2015
01:33:40,880 --> 01:33:42,960
have an in prime MVP and have to be thinking

2016
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:44,880
about how do we get off these contracts that we

2017
01:33:45,800 --> 01:33:47,159
no one forced us to sign.

2018
01:33:48,039 --> 01:33:50,039
Speaker 1: I think they end up doing nothing, right.

2019
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:53,199
Speaker 2: I think they just yeah. I think the market is

2020
01:33:53,239 --> 01:33:55,479
going to tell them like there's just not an obvious win,

2021
01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:57,159
so they won't do anything.

2022
01:33:57,399 --> 01:34:00,720
Speaker 1: Next team is mine? Oh, the Golden State Warriors, ply yours,

2023
01:34:00,920 --> 01:34:02,760
So tell me they can trade some imminent first, like

2024
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:05,920
they can trade twenty twenty five or twenty six and

2025
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:08,680
then they can trade twenty seven or twenty eight, and

2026
01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:11,680
then they can also trade their twenty thirty first only

2027
01:34:11,680 --> 01:34:13,399
if it lands in the top twenty, which is the

2028
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:15,479
you know, I've seen a lot of people talk about, like, oh,

2029
01:34:15,479 --> 01:34:18,079
the Lakers can technically trade their twenty twenty seven pick

2030
01:34:18,239 --> 01:34:20,560
just if it lands in one to four. That has

2031
01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:22,399
zero value. If you're trading a pick that you can

2032
01:34:22,399 --> 01:34:24,520
get if it lands in one to twenty, that's a

2033
01:34:24,520 --> 01:34:26,760
different story to me, because the back the back third.

2034
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:31,560
That's O to Washington Grant. I think I'm not going

2035
01:34:31,600 --> 01:34:33,119
to ask you the question. We've talked too much about

2036
01:34:33,199 --> 01:34:36,399
them in past podcast. It feels like this franchise. I

2037
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:39,600
viewed their pursuit of marketing and Paul George's performative over

2038
01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:42,079
the offseason, and then I do like that they acted

2039
01:34:42,079 --> 01:34:44,800
early with Dennis Shooter, but that almost kind of felt like, well,

2040
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:46,359
this is the most we're really going to be willing

2041
01:34:46,399 --> 01:34:50,560
to do to like improve this roster. Do you see

2042
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:52,800
a scenario in which they are prepared to give up

2043
01:34:53,399 --> 01:34:55,439
a first in twenty twenty seven or later?

2044
01:34:56,000 --> 01:35:00,479
Speaker 2: I think probably not. I do think the heat loss

2045
01:35:00,520 --> 01:35:03,239
the other day, all the reporting from local guys, was

2046
01:35:03,319 --> 01:35:05,279
about like a very I don't think it was the

2047
01:35:05,319 --> 01:35:08,760
word wasn't heated, but like a pretty focused conversation in

2048
01:35:08,800 --> 01:35:11,640
the postgame tunnel between Mike Dunlevy and and Joe Lake

2049
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:14,520
of the Owner, and what what the reporting seemed to

2050
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:17,319
indicate from that was like lakeub is like not happy

2051
01:35:17,399 --> 01:35:20,199
with how things are going, and that the conclusion you

2052
01:35:20,239 --> 01:35:23,199
would draw is the Warriors are more likely now after

2053
01:35:23,239 --> 01:35:26,800
that bad loss, to make like what you and I

2054
01:35:26,840 --> 01:35:29,479
would probably term like a panicky type of move than

2055
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:32,439
they were before it. So I think you factor that in,

2056
01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:36,359
but that might just be seconds for nick Vucevic like

2057
01:35:36,399 --> 01:35:39,079
that that feels like the kind of thing because I

2058
01:35:39,159 --> 01:35:40,119
don't I don't think.

2059
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:42,760
Speaker 1: You can do this report from Amy where it was

2060
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:45,800
just and I actually understand it from an asset perspective,

2061
01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:47,880
but it's or I think it was Mark J. Spears

2062
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:50,960
actually excuse me, basically said no, no, like Nikolo Vuchvich

2063
01:35:51,039 --> 01:35:53,199
is a bigger priority for the Warriors than Jimmy Butler,

2064
01:35:53,199 --> 01:35:55,680
and so to see that written out is funny or said,

2065
01:35:56,039 --> 01:35:58,359
but when it comes down to what it costs in

2066
01:35:58,439 --> 01:36:00,840
terms of assets, you under stand it through.

2067
01:36:00,800 --> 01:36:04,119
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I don't know when it was last said

2068
01:36:04,119 --> 01:36:07,279
that like Vucevic is actually the sensible acquisition that kind

2069
01:36:07,319 --> 01:36:09,960
of kind of is given what it would cost to

2070
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:11,880
do something else. Yeah, I don't think they move any

2071
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:17,920
of these because the guys that you would like, oh yeah,

2072
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:21,279
for sure, we can justify that are just not available.

2073
01:36:21,319 --> 01:36:25,479
Like we're talking about Ingram, Levine Butler. Who am I forgetting?

2074
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:29,119
Like those those are those are your big three of him.

2075
01:36:29,239 --> 01:36:30,960
That's why I said ing Ingram is one of them. Like,

2076
01:36:31,319 --> 01:36:33,199
I don't think you're given up first for those guys,

2077
01:36:33,199 --> 01:36:38,000
So that this is these first will probably remain intact,

2078
01:36:38,079 --> 01:36:39,840
is what I would say through the trade deadline.

2079
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:44,319
Speaker 1: I would agree with you. Would you I've asked you

2080
01:36:44,359 --> 01:36:47,439
as many times if it means getting Jimmy Butler, are

2081
01:36:47,479 --> 01:36:48,119
you doing it?

2082
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:51,920
Speaker 2: I don't think so, uh, because as we've talked about,

2083
01:36:52,159 --> 01:36:54,520
it's they're not going to trade Draymond, even though if

2084
01:36:54,520 --> 01:36:57,159
it were Wiggans or Draymond, I probably think real hard

2085
01:36:57,159 --> 01:37:00,920
about trading Draymond. I don't think the Butler Overweigan's acquisition,

2086
01:37:01,359 --> 01:37:05,760
considering contracts, not just who's good is a big enough

2087
01:37:05,760 --> 01:37:08,439
one to justify all the other shit you're sending out

2088
01:37:08,560 --> 01:37:11,279
to Miami, if it's first, if it's Kaminga, if it's whatever.

2089
01:37:11,960 --> 01:37:14,079
So like, it's not an argument that the Warriors are

2090
01:37:14,079 --> 01:37:16,680
good enough as is. That's obviously not true. But I

2091
01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:19,680
just don't. I just don't do the Butler trade. I mean,

2092
01:37:20,079 --> 01:37:22,680
unless it's unless you can make it all kinds of

2093
01:37:22,720 --> 01:37:25,640
matching salary somehow and it's all expiring, and that's what

2094
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:27,520
Miami wants and you're not giving it. Just you just

2095
01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:29,479
can't do it without losing Wiggins. I don't think, and

2096
01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:30,880
I'm I'm kind of out on that.

2097
01:37:31,560 --> 01:37:33,800
Speaker 1: I don't think this would get them this player in

2098
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:35,479
a vacuum, but to kind of lower the bar, I'm

2099
01:37:35,520 --> 01:37:38,159
just asking you, would you give up Kaminga or A

2100
01:37:38,159 --> 01:37:41,159
twenty twenty seven first to get Cam Johnson?

2101
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:47,319
Speaker 2: I don't think so, because Cam Johnson does not like

2102
01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:52,319
raise this the level enough to justify well. I mean,

2103
01:37:52,359 --> 01:37:55,239
if you know Kaminga's gone and or you're gonna have

2104
01:37:55,239 --> 01:37:56,880
to pay him way too much to keep him, then

2105
01:37:56,880 --> 01:37:59,199
maybe you just do that because Cam Johnson's gonna make

2106
01:37:59,239 --> 01:38:02,079
maybe half of what Kamingo wants. But I still don't.

2107
01:38:02,119 --> 01:38:04,760
I don't think Cam Johnson like raises your level enough

2108
01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:07,479
to justify. Certainly not a twenty seven first because like

2109
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:09,800
that might be a that might be a very good pick.

2110
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:13,039
Speaker 1: Is there any chance they'd be a sleeper darn Fox

2111
01:38:13,079 --> 01:38:15,600
team if he became available, or is that just too

2112
01:38:15,680 --> 01:38:17,760
small because you have to send Wiggins out probably as

2113
01:38:17,800 --> 01:38:20,600
part of the matching salary, although you could if you

2114
01:38:20,640 --> 01:38:22,960
make it on like February fifth, when you can aggregate

2115
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:24,840
Dennis Shrewder, you might be able to get there without

2116
01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:25,720
Wiggins's money.

2117
01:38:26,039 --> 01:38:29,880
Speaker 2: I mean, I actually think that Fox is someone I

2118
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:32,319
would kind of fire a lot of the assets that

2119
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:36,079
because there's your bridge, Like you could play with Steph

2120
01:38:36,199 --> 01:38:38,239
whatever for the next couple of years until it's over,

2121
01:38:38,359 --> 01:38:40,199
and then he's your Like he's gonna be in his

2122
01:38:40,279 --> 01:38:42,800
late twenties and you can have him be your guy.

2123
01:38:43,239 --> 01:38:46,039
He certainly addresses like what they need, which is another

2124
01:38:46,039 --> 01:38:49,520
guy to create shots. Even he I don't think gets

2125
01:38:49,560 --> 01:38:51,439
them into the contender class. But I don't know that

2126
01:38:51,439 --> 01:38:55,479
that player's out there at this point. He's definitely I

2127
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:57,640
would I would. What I would give up for him

2128
01:38:57,720 --> 01:38:59,359
is like so far beyond what I would give up

2129
01:38:59,399 --> 01:39:02,840
for Butler, Ingram or Levine or anyone else that we've discussed,

2130
01:39:03,199 --> 01:39:08,039
but also wears under armored shoes, so he's the only

2131
01:39:08,079 --> 01:39:10,199
other under arm or athlete. Got a factor that in.

2132
01:39:11,039 --> 01:39:13,760
Speaker 1: Would you and this team already made a buye? But

2133
01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:15,960
like if this player is sitting around looking at his team, like,

2134
01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:19,079
why aren't we doing anything major? Are you firing all

2135
01:39:19,119 --> 01:39:23,520
the assets in an Anthony Davis trade? M Just.

2136
01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:28,520
Speaker 2: For sure, it's probably costing you Kaminga and then what

2137
01:39:28,680 --> 01:39:29,760
how many of all.

2138
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:31,119
Speaker 1: Three first whatever salaries?

2139
01:39:31,199 --> 01:39:31,359
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2140
01:39:31,359 --> 01:39:33,399
Speaker 1: And then whatever first?

2141
01:39:33,840 --> 01:39:36,760
Speaker 2: Oh man, that might be Like god, he solved so

2142
01:39:36,880 --> 01:39:37,680
many problems.

2143
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:42,600
Speaker 1: He's at that age too, where it's at thirty one, right,

2144
01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:43,439
Anthony Davis.

2145
01:39:44,520 --> 01:39:50,279
Speaker 2: The downside for sure? I think him and Steph though, yeah,

2146
01:39:50,279 --> 01:39:52,039
I would think real hard about that. I think I

2147
01:39:52,079 --> 01:39:54,560
would really. I mean, I don't even know if the

2148
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:57,319
Lakers do that though, honestly, even though they probably should.

2149
01:39:57,680 --> 01:39:59,640
Speaker 1: If he has for out and the Warriors are offering

2150
01:39:59,680 --> 01:40:04,640
three first Kaminga Wiggins like, I don't know who's I

2151
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:06,760
guess there are teams that could beat that, but who

2152
01:40:06,800 --> 01:40:08,960
would like Houston, I don't even think would go beat

2153
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:09,520
that offer.

2154
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:12,520
Speaker 2: Right, That's the way you make when you think your

2155
01:40:12,800 --> 01:40:15,439
most important years are like the next two and then

2156
01:40:15,479 --> 01:40:19,279
you're just willing to eat it after that, And that

2157
01:40:19,359 --> 01:40:22,079
might be where the Warriors get if this season continues

2158
01:40:22,119 --> 01:40:23,880
down this path. So, yeah, that's an interesting one. I

2159
01:40:24,319 --> 01:40:26,760
think you. I think you do that if you're the Warriors,

2160
01:40:26,880 --> 01:40:29,039
given me how much they care about Steph same.

2161
01:40:29,079 --> 01:40:30,840
Speaker 1: I want to be clear Tod Lakers hands like, that's

2162
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:32,960
the same situation as Fox, Like, you don't move Antony

2163
01:40:33,039 --> 01:40:34,880
Davis unless he kxser out and you're the Lakers.

2164
01:40:35,279 --> 01:40:38,479
Speaker 2: You have the Clippers, all right, Uh, they can trade

2165
01:40:38,640 --> 01:40:41,720
twenty thirty or twenty thirty one firsts uh. And they

2166
01:40:41,760 --> 01:40:44,039
also have a twenty thirty or twenty thirty one swap.

2167
01:40:44,079 --> 01:40:45,880
So whichever way you want to do that, are they

2168
01:40:45,880 --> 01:40:48,359
good enough right now? Or do you believe enough in

2169
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:51,399
what they've done so far? Plus at Kawhi now? Plus

2170
01:40:51,479 --> 01:40:55,479
however you think Kawhi has looked to justify moving one

2171
01:40:55,479 --> 01:40:58,000
of those two one or both of those assets.

2172
01:40:58,520 --> 01:41:00,520
Speaker 1: I just want to know how uncomfortable people are going

2173
01:41:00,560 --> 01:41:02,840
to be when the Vita Zubox makes an All defense

2174
01:41:02,880 --> 01:41:05,439
team or finishes like top five and Defensive Player of

2175
01:41:05,439 --> 01:41:08,439
the Year voting. Uh. I buy into what they've done,

2176
01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:13,039
but I don't think that you can trade at, swap

2177
01:41:13,079 --> 01:41:17,920
out right first whatever without note like Kawhi has played Okay,

2178
01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:20,600
that's great, but like we haven't seen him make it

2179
01:41:20,720 --> 01:41:24,560
through finish the season healthy in approximately eternity. So I

2180
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:27,119
don't think you have to look at this team and say,

2181
01:41:27,159 --> 01:41:29,439
I believe in what we've built so far, but Kawhi

2182
01:41:29,479 --> 01:41:30,880
is too much of a wild card for us to

2183
01:41:30,920 --> 01:41:31,800
double down on it.

2184
01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:36,319
Speaker 2: I think it would be smarter and hopefully more likely

2185
01:41:36,399 --> 01:41:39,000
that they trade Kawhi than they like go out and

2186
01:41:39,039 --> 01:41:41,680
spend stuff to add just because like, I think you've

2187
01:41:41,680 --> 01:41:43,720
gotten what you wanted out of this season as the Clippers,

2188
01:41:43,760 --> 01:41:46,000
which is you've been competitive, you opened the new arena

2189
01:41:46,039 --> 01:41:47,960
that he's talking about, how that was a priority, Like

2190
01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:50,880
let's put a decent product out there. Like you've exceeded

2191
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:54,279
expectations by I mean like across the board, right, nobody

2192
01:41:54,399 --> 01:41:56,560
thought the Clippers were going to be in the playoff

2193
01:41:56,600 --> 01:42:00,039
mix like this to this extent. So I think you

2194
01:42:00,119 --> 01:42:03,800
just take that small win and then kind of don't assume,

2195
01:42:03,920 --> 01:42:07,800
like what what's the trade that of given what they have,

2196
01:42:08,279 --> 01:42:11,119
that's like, okay, we're gonna take another step, you know,

2197
01:42:11,239 --> 01:42:12,520
in the immediate.

2198
01:42:13,159 --> 01:42:14,880
Speaker 1: And This might bring up a question that we should

2199
01:42:14,880 --> 01:42:17,800
probably ask in terms of how valuable are distant first

2200
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:20,479
round picks, because when you look at them from our perspective,

2201
01:42:20,960 --> 01:42:23,880
they're like having equippers. Twenty thirty one first round pick,

2202
01:42:24,479 --> 01:42:27,880
that's fucking value or twenty thirty that's that's fucking valuable.

2203
01:42:27,960 --> 01:42:30,319
But if you were, if you were to offer Terrence

2204
01:42:30,359 --> 01:42:33,680
Mann an outright first and a swap, so however, you

2205
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:36,880
want a structure twenty thirty and twenty thirty one and

2206
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:39,199
you want Kobe White back or the Bulls laughing at.

2207
01:42:39,039 --> 01:42:42,279
Speaker 2: You, No, I don't. I would hope not. That's the

2208
01:42:42,319 --> 01:42:43,560
kind of trade the Bulls should do.

2209
01:42:46,399 --> 01:42:48,760
Speaker 1: It's just I think it's tough as the opposing front

2210
01:42:48,800 --> 01:42:51,319
office knowing, well, I'm not gonna be making these picks

2211
01:42:51,399 --> 01:42:54,800
or exercising these swaps, and so you need something immediate

2212
01:42:55,079 --> 01:42:58,000
and they don't have Like Terrence Mann doesn't fit that

2213
01:42:58,079 --> 01:43:00,279
Bill Norman Powell would, but you're not gonna get him

2214
01:43:00,399 --> 01:43:02,319
up with the way he's played this season.

2215
01:43:03,479 --> 01:43:06,880
Speaker 2: There's well, I think if you pull, if you do

2216
01:43:07,000 --> 01:43:09,840
that as a Bulls, as the Bulls or as someone

2217
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:12,880
similarly positioned, you're just buying the upside of that pick,

2218
01:43:12,920 --> 01:43:15,159
which as we talk about it, like I don't know

2219
01:43:15,199 --> 01:43:17,079
the Clippers are going to be a free agent destination,

2220
01:43:17,560 --> 01:43:19,199
you know, if they get the books cleaned up, like

2221
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:23,479
and we're way out, you know, so like based literally

2222
01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:25,680
no one on the current Clippers roster will probably be

2223
01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:27,880
on the team by then, So like just as an

2224
01:43:27,880 --> 01:43:30,000
illustration of how much could change, like they could have

2225
01:43:30,319 --> 01:43:33,039
two new Max Superstars by then that they signed. Like

2226
01:43:34,079 --> 01:43:36,640
the upside of that pick is huge, but it's far

2227
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:39,439
from guaranteed. So I think I still would consider it

2228
01:43:39,479 --> 01:43:41,680
if I'm the Bulls, just for all the reasons we've

2229
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:43,840
talked about why you probably want to trade Kobe White.

2230
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:48,000
But I mean, if I'm the Clippers, I don't I

2231
01:43:48,239 --> 01:43:51,600
don't know we were doing that well. I just think

2232
01:43:51,680 --> 01:43:54,000
like they're they're just really hard to judge because I

2233
01:43:54,039 --> 01:43:58,840
do think with this ownership and this arena and this

2234
01:43:59,079 --> 01:44:02,279
every like they're gonna it's just really hard to know

2235
01:44:02,479 --> 01:44:04,920
like what the bottom is gonna look like for them,

2236
01:44:04,960 --> 01:44:07,079
because they're always gonna be able to sign guys. I

2237
01:44:07,479 --> 01:44:09,760
think like they're one of the few places where like

2238
01:44:09,800 --> 01:44:12,960
cap space actually is like, yeah, you could just build

2239
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:13,760
a contender.

2240
01:44:13,439 --> 01:44:15,479
Speaker 1: Turned down Paul George this past summer.

2241
01:44:15,800 --> 01:44:17,600
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's because they're like, we're gonna clean

2242
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:19,119
the books up so that we can get the next

2243
01:44:19,119 --> 01:44:21,920
two guys in here eventually. Well, I don't know, it's

2244
01:44:21,960 --> 01:44:22,800
that's a tough one.

2245
01:44:23,479 --> 01:44:26,359
Speaker 1: I don't think they trade like any They might do something.

2246
01:44:26,359 --> 01:44:29,319
Maybe they could use PJ. Tucker's contract like the expiring,

2247
01:44:29,359 --> 01:44:30,520
but I don't think they're gonna.

2248
01:44:30,319 --> 01:44:32,840
Speaker 2: Do anything for real. Yeah, I think I would agree.

2249
01:44:33,159 --> 01:44:36,520
Speaker 1: We're onto the Lakers, which is my team, so I'd

2250
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:39,359
kind of alluded to this. They can trade a bit

2251
01:44:39,479 --> 01:44:42,399
like they're twenty twenty seven first if it lands inside

2252
01:44:42,439 --> 01:44:44,800
the top four. I don't think that has any real value.

2253
01:44:45,479 --> 01:44:47,640
So they can really trade their twenty twenty nine and

2254
01:44:47,680 --> 01:44:52,239
twenty thirty one first both are conditional, are conditional upon

2255
01:44:52,319 --> 01:44:55,720
their top four protected pick conveying to Utah in twenty

2256
01:44:55,840 --> 01:44:59,239
twenty seven. Although is it conditional or does that one expire?

2257
01:44:59,279 --> 01:45:01,560
Do I get to type a like, doesn't it immediately extinguished?

2258
01:45:01,560 --> 01:45:02,600
Maybe I got that one wrong.

2259
01:45:02,800 --> 01:45:04,800
Speaker 2: Got to go back to the jazz on the spreadsheet here.

2260
01:45:05,439 --> 01:45:07,920
Speaker 1: Regardless, I think that they have two first round picks

2261
01:45:07,920 --> 01:45:10,640
to trade, and they can include sub swaps We've already

2262
01:45:10,680 --> 01:45:14,279
seen them trade for Dorian Phinney, Smith Grant. Is this

2263
01:45:14,359 --> 01:45:18,039
a team that you have Lebron, you have ad and yeah,

2264
01:45:18,039 --> 01:45:20,680
it does expire right away, so it doesn't have to

2265
01:45:20,680 --> 01:45:23,760
be conditional for so apologies to anyone watching. They can

2266
01:45:23,800 --> 01:45:25,920
trade twenty nine and twenty thirty one out right, and

2267
01:45:25,920 --> 01:45:28,960
they have three swaps that they can include. Is this

2268
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:31,000
a team so you kind of already shot down the

2269
01:45:31,039 --> 01:45:33,439
notion unless you were getting an Anthony Davis type player

2270
01:45:34,199 --> 01:45:36,279
or Daron Fox? Is this a team that should be

2271
01:45:36,319 --> 01:45:39,840
more motivated or has more incentive to trade these later

2272
01:45:39,960 --> 01:45:41,039
first and swaps?

2273
01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:44,760
Speaker 2: Well? Like why should they be treated differently than the

2274
01:45:44,800 --> 01:45:47,720
current Warriors? Like a lot of the motivators are the same, right,

2275
01:45:47,800 --> 01:45:50,520
Like you've got in the Lakers case, they have two,

2276
01:45:50,560 --> 01:45:52,359
but in the worst you've got it like a late

2277
01:45:52,439 --> 01:45:56,520
prime star that you want to try to compete? Like

2278
01:45:56,960 --> 01:46:00,439
should should the analysis be different? Because I'm asked because

2279
01:46:00,479 --> 01:46:02,600
for me, it's like I can't evaluate the Warriors the

2280
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:04,800
same way i'd evaluate another team just because I'm gonna

2281
01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:06,720
watch them every night. I'm not gonna watch every Lakers

2282
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:10,439
game and like live and die with it. So for

2283
01:46:10,479 --> 01:46:12,840
some reason, and you can just tell me if this

2284
01:46:12,920 --> 01:46:13,640
is irrational.

2285
01:46:14,119 --> 01:46:14,800
Speaker 1: It's irrational.

2286
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:20,199
Speaker 2: Better about the Lakers, like throwing a first in salary

2287
01:46:20,199 --> 01:46:22,479
for Levigne or whatever, than I do for the Warriors.

2288
01:46:22,840 --> 01:46:24,920
Maybe that's just because I can imagine their ceiling being

2289
01:46:24,960 --> 01:46:27,760
a little higher because they have two stars. Say well,

2290
01:46:27,800 --> 01:46:31,640
although Lebron we've talked about is maybe not quite that anymore.

2291
01:46:33,119 --> 01:46:34,760
I would be more willing than I would if I

2292
01:46:34,800 --> 01:46:38,640
were the Warriors to throw some draft assets out there

2293
01:46:38,800 --> 01:46:41,760
to get a Levine level. Levine is like my specific

2294
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:43,319
guy for this team. I don't know why. That's just

2295
01:46:43,399 --> 01:46:44,199
how it's always been.

2296
01:46:44,840 --> 01:46:47,079
Speaker 1: So I think the differences are is that the Warriors,

2297
01:46:47,359 --> 01:46:50,119
in theory, depending on how you feel about that twenty

2298
01:46:50,159 --> 01:46:52,359
thirty pick they owe to Washington, they just have more

2299
01:46:52,439 --> 01:46:56,119
future first round equity at their disposal, And internally it

2300
01:46:56,159 --> 01:46:59,439
seems like are they still holding out hope that they

2301
01:46:59,479 --> 01:47:02,520
have bridge to the future in place with pods and

2302
01:47:02,560 --> 01:47:06,680
coming as specifically, whereas now I think from an outsider's

2303
01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:10,239
perspective like mine, the Warriors have exactly zero bridges into

2304
01:47:10,239 --> 01:47:11,039
the future right now.

2305
01:47:11,079 --> 01:47:13,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a fair position to have, and.

2306
01:47:14,039 --> 01:47:16,680
Speaker 1: The Lakers they have zero bridges into the future. But

2307
01:47:16,720 --> 01:47:18,840
they can't even look at anyone internally and say, like,

2308
01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:21,800
you know what, right, don't connect he has all NBA

2309
01:47:21,920 --> 01:47:24,800
potential And I think that's the difference. And someone actually

2310
01:47:24,840 --> 01:47:26,760
called me out on this, I think, on YouTube, and

2311
01:47:26,760 --> 01:47:29,600
they were right, like, why should we say that. It's

2312
01:47:29,920 --> 01:47:32,239
like the Warriors are better set up for the future

2313
01:47:32,279 --> 01:47:35,359
than the Lakers. There's no I might feel that way

2314
01:47:35,439 --> 01:47:37,640
just because this Lakers front office has not proven to

2315
01:47:37,680 --> 01:47:40,159
me that like they're gonna make the right moves, but

2316
01:47:40,319 --> 01:47:42,359
like the Lakers are probably going to be more of

2317
01:47:42,359 --> 01:47:45,359
a free agency destination as they clear their books, and

2318
01:47:45,479 --> 01:47:48,279
I think they're at least more like it's at least

2319
01:47:48,279 --> 01:47:50,920
a debate. I think what the Lakers though, specifically, is

2320
01:47:51,239 --> 01:47:55,199
you can say that their two best players are better

2321
01:47:55,279 --> 01:47:58,239
than Golden State's two best players in the aggregate. Steph

2322
01:47:58,359 --> 01:48:00,920
is the best player of those three or of the four,

2323
01:48:01,399 --> 01:48:04,920
but like the gap between Lebron and ad and then

2324
01:48:05,000 --> 01:48:09,800
Draymond is massive at your point. So I think that's

2325
01:48:09,800 --> 01:48:12,439
why the Lakers might have more they're also just the Lakers,

2326
01:48:12,760 --> 01:48:15,640
and I think there's also look, Steph has been with

2327
01:48:15,680 --> 01:48:18,600
the Warriors his entire career, same with Draymond, and there's

2328
01:48:18,600 --> 01:48:21,359
that goodwill equity built in with the Lakers. It's sort

2329
01:48:21,399 --> 01:48:24,079
of just like Lebron was. Yeah, he's been there for

2330
01:48:24,119 --> 01:48:25,960
a while now, and so is Ad. But if you're

2331
01:48:26,000 --> 01:48:28,560
not going for it with these guys, what's the You're

2332
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:31,800
not riding like the Warriors aren't aren't riding emotional goodwill

2333
01:48:31,840 --> 01:48:34,520
and vibes. The Lakers aren't necessarily riding that.

2334
01:48:36,800 --> 01:48:40,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a pretty key. So so then

2335
01:48:40,560 --> 01:48:44,000
I guess let's well, let's just like put names to it.

2336
01:48:44,039 --> 01:48:47,960
Is there someone that you think would justify the Lakers

2337
01:48:48,000 --> 01:48:50,159
putting one or both of those first on the table

2338
01:48:50,159 --> 01:48:52,640
for in this market.

2339
01:48:52,239 --> 01:48:56,560
Speaker 1: I'd probably do it for Fox. That's not gonna get

2340
01:48:56,600 --> 01:48:58,439
you Fox. He would really like Clutch would have to

2341
01:48:58,439 --> 01:49:00,840
play like, well, yeah, that's the other factors, Like they

2342
01:49:00,880 --> 01:49:04,720
could Client who signed to Clutch the Warriors, and the

2343
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:09,319
Lakers could just like Collie there. I don't. I wondered why,

2344
01:49:09,399 --> 01:49:12,000
and it's probably because of the age and the contract

2345
01:49:12,000 --> 01:49:14,159
and the spacing issues, but like, why aren't they being

2346
01:49:14,199 --> 01:49:18,000
mentioned as a Jimmy Butler destination because in the players

2347
01:49:18,000 --> 01:49:19,680
in a vacuum, I know they like to pretend that

2348
01:49:19,760 --> 01:49:22,840
ruy ha chamor is like this cornerstone, you give up

2349
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:25,119
all the matching salary you need to get Jimmy Butler

2350
01:49:25,159 --> 01:49:27,279
in a vacuum? Is it just the age and the like?

2351
01:49:27,319 --> 01:49:29,000
Do you not like the Jimmy Butler fit? And I

2352
01:49:29,000 --> 01:49:31,399
guess I don't love it? And he's someone who needs

2353
01:49:31,880 --> 01:49:33,640
would prefer to have the ball, and like it's the

2354
01:49:33,640 --> 01:49:35,600
same thing with Lebron and you're running stuff through a

2355
01:49:35,720 --> 01:49:37,640
d So I get it, but would you give up

2356
01:49:38,119 --> 01:49:39,920
your first? Like, would you give up a first to

2357
01:49:39,960 --> 01:49:42,119
go and just get Jimmy Butler? Man?

2358
01:49:42,239 --> 01:49:42,680
Speaker 2: I think you.

2359
01:49:44,239 --> 01:49:46,239
Speaker 1: Had, By the way. That might be the other difference

2360
01:49:46,279 --> 01:49:50,279
to the Lakers matching salary I think is if you

2361
01:49:50,279 --> 01:49:53,479
don't want to say it's less attractive, it's it's definitely

2362
01:49:53,479 --> 01:49:56,800
not as palatable as the matching money that Golden State

2363
01:49:56,960 --> 01:49:59,199
is going to Like what is the bad contract on

2364
01:49:59,239 --> 01:50:00,960
Golden State's book right now?

2365
01:50:01,640 --> 01:50:04,439
Speaker 2: I mean you might be Draymond at this point, but yeah,

2366
01:50:04,479 --> 01:50:05,960
it's like Wiggins is a good contract.

2367
01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:07,399
Speaker 1: I think the next deal that's the end.

2368
01:50:07,640 --> 01:50:11,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, they'll be there soon. I mean shrewder Well, he's

2369
01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:15,840
expiring whatever. Uh yeah, So like the Lakers can't get

2370
01:50:16,560 --> 01:50:19,199
like if the Heat just want all expiring money and

2371
01:50:19,359 --> 01:50:22,880
or like positive value contracts, like I don't can the

2372
01:50:22,920 --> 01:50:25,520
Lake The Lakers can't like quite do that right, Like

2373
01:50:25,560 --> 01:50:27,039
there's just it's not quite the same.

2374
01:50:27,399 --> 01:50:30,199
Speaker 1: Like maybe you can compensate Detroit in seconds to take

2375
01:50:30,239 --> 01:50:32,680
on Jared Vanderbilt, like I it was that a flyer.

2376
01:50:32,920 --> 01:50:33,760
I honestly don't know.

2377
01:50:34,079 --> 01:50:36,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one way to do it. So do you

2378
01:50:36,439 --> 01:50:37,239
think they do anything?

2379
01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:41,199
Speaker 1: They might do stuff, but it's gonna be on probably

2380
01:50:41,640 --> 01:50:44,439
a level below the Doriyan Phinney Smith. Okay, just because

2381
01:50:44,439 --> 01:50:46,279
they don't have seconds to move anymore.

2382
01:50:46,399 --> 01:50:48,520
Speaker 2: The big move has happened. You heard it here first.

2383
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:50,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you think that they would do do you

2384
01:50:50,239 --> 01:50:52,560
think they should do something bigger than Doriyan Phinney Smith.

2385
01:50:53,159 --> 01:50:54,800
Speaker 2: I think if you can do something with one of

2386
01:50:54,840 --> 01:50:58,239
those firsts and your bad salary, you probably I would

2387
01:50:58,279 --> 01:50:58,800
be for it.

2388
01:50:59,159 --> 01:51:01,880
Speaker 1: I mean just too if you can get first, of all,

2389
01:51:01,920 --> 01:51:03,359
maybe you don't even need to give up first at

2390
01:51:03,359 --> 01:51:05,560
this point. But even if it's one first, then you

2391
01:51:05,560 --> 01:51:08,640
can protect it and then immediately extinguishes or like would

2392
01:51:08,640 --> 01:51:10,600
the Bulls do it? For two swaps in twenty eight

2393
01:51:10,640 --> 01:51:13,000
and thirty is that far enough out They're probably still

2394
01:51:13,039 --> 01:51:15,079
going to try to be good or in the bottom

2395
01:51:15,479 --> 01:51:17,000
they want to be in like the middle ten.

2396
01:51:17,159 --> 01:51:21,399
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, the Bulls know they're giving up the sixteenth pick.

2397
01:51:21,600 --> 01:51:23,239
They know it. So like, if you think you can

2398
01:51:23,279 --> 01:51:25,079
do better than that, you gotta do it.

2399
01:51:25,279 --> 01:51:27,039
Speaker 1: The Milwaukee Bucks.

2400
01:51:26,640 --> 01:51:29,920
Speaker 2: Are you okay? They like the Nuggets can trade their

2401
01:51:29,920 --> 01:51:32,039
twenty thirty one first. They are a second apron team,

2402
01:51:33,279 --> 01:51:36,560
So just as a refresher for everybody, and I have

2403
01:51:36,600 --> 01:51:39,920
to do this like every week or so. Cannot aggregate salaries,

2404
01:51:40,479 --> 01:51:42,439
you can't get they can get under the second apron

2405
01:51:42,479 --> 01:51:45,680
if they salary don't Pat Conaton, But just they're the

2406
01:51:45,720 --> 01:51:49,600
team that's like, you can't aggregate, can't take back more

2407
01:51:49,640 --> 01:51:53,840
than they have, all the restrictions that the second apron imposes.

2408
01:51:53,880 --> 01:51:58,119
So if you're trying to get better, you're talking about

2409
01:51:58,760 --> 01:52:01,560
that twenty thirty one first and Bobby Portis or and

2410
01:52:01,640 --> 01:52:04,840
Pat Conaton or whatever, and you can't just lump together

2411
01:52:04,880 --> 01:52:08,399
stuff like you used to imagine them last year. There

2412
01:52:08,439 --> 01:52:10,039
would be so much and several other seems to be

2413
01:52:10,079 --> 01:52:11,800
so much easier to come up with trades to make

2414
01:52:11,800 --> 01:52:13,760
the Bucks better. Oh, the twenty thirty one first, and

2415
01:52:13,880 --> 01:52:16,680
like Pat Conentson and Bobby Portis and whatever else, you

2416
01:52:16,680 --> 01:52:18,800
can get a forty million dollar player coming back.

2417
01:52:18,760 --> 01:52:23,000
Speaker 1: LIKEE not, So is it weird that they're not being

2418
01:52:23,039 --> 01:52:25,279
talked about more as because I feel like we talked

2419
01:52:25,279 --> 01:52:27,159
about with the Lakers the Warriors, and I know they're

2420
01:52:27,199 --> 01:52:29,600
not second. Is it just the second apron which kind

2421
01:52:29,600 --> 01:52:32,760
of bails them out from having to consider because just objectively,

2422
01:52:32,760 --> 01:52:36,159
you have Giannis Attenta Koumpo, you should be putting that

2423
01:52:36,199 --> 01:52:39,880
twenty thirty one draft pick on the table to get better. Otherwise,

2424
01:52:39,880 --> 01:52:41,039
what the hell are you doing here?

2425
01:52:42,399 --> 01:52:42,760
Speaker 2: Yeah?

2426
01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:46,359
Speaker 1: I mean, well, it's just who's the best player you get?

2427
01:52:46,560 --> 01:52:49,920
It's the Denver Proty one pick. If you're trading Bobby Portis,

2428
01:52:50,199 --> 01:52:50,800
It's it's.

2429
01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:53,239
Speaker 2: Really the Denver problem, although maybe not as bad because

2430
01:52:53,279 --> 01:52:56,279
Portis makes more than any single guy the Nuggets could

2431
01:52:56,640 --> 01:52:58,239
non MPGA Division control a.

2432
01:52:58,199 --> 01:53:00,479
Speaker 1: Little bit better than Zeke Nagy too a little bit.

2433
01:53:00,399 --> 01:53:02,880
Speaker 2: Better, but he's also like way more important to the

2434
01:53:02,920 --> 01:53:06,880
team than Zekena September, So like, I like, how are you?

2435
01:53:06,920 --> 01:53:10,159
It's it's like it's that thing where Okay, we'd like

2436
01:53:10,159 --> 01:53:12,399
a Bobby Portus upgrade Okay, cool, what are you offering

2437
01:53:12,439 --> 01:53:17,880
Bobby Portis and a first that your administration will not pick?

2438
01:53:18,239 --> 01:53:20,800
So it's like, how do you what does that look like?

2439
01:53:20,880 --> 01:53:21,880
I just I don't know.

2440
01:53:22,720 --> 01:53:24,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just they're not going to do anything right.

2441
01:53:25,439 --> 01:53:28,439
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like there's a way realistically.

2442
01:53:27,960 --> 01:53:30,640
Speaker 1: Which means that we're moving on to the Minnesota Timberwolves,

2443
01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:33,159
who would have been more fascinating to talk about had

2444
01:53:33,159 --> 01:53:36,119
they not made the trade that they did for well,

2445
01:53:36,319 --> 01:53:39,079
forget about the Julius Rendald Dante divincenzol cononnthy Town stuff.

2446
01:53:39,079 --> 01:53:41,720
If they didn't trade for Rob Dillingham, they'd be at

2447
01:53:41,760 --> 01:53:44,720
they'd have more assets in play. They are also a

2448
01:53:44,720 --> 01:53:47,720
second Apron team. They do own Detroit's twenty twenty five

2449
01:53:47,760 --> 01:53:51,000
first again top thirteen protection that becomes top eleven in

2450
01:53:51,000 --> 01:53:54,039
twenty twenty six, called by top nine in twenty twenty seven,

2451
01:53:54,439 --> 01:53:56,479
and they can trade a swap in twenty twenty eight

2452
01:53:56,520 --> 01:53:58,760
now the valuing that Detroit pick, so again they have

2453
01:53:58,800 --> 01:54:02,039
to trade a standalone South. They have standalone salaries they

2454
01:54:02,079 --> 01:54:04,359
could move. I mean specifically, you look at Julius Randall

2455
01:54:04,479 --> 01:54:07,920
as just the big exp could be expiring money. It

2456
01:54:07,960 --> 01:54:10,640
also helps though that the Detroit pick. I think you

2457
01:54:10,680 --> 01:54:12,520
look at it and say, okay, that will convey at

2458
01:54:12,520 --> 01:54:14,199
some point over the next three years.

2459
01:54:14,239 --> 01:54:15,560
Speaker 2: Ye right, I agree.

2460
01:54:16,119 --> 01:54:18,439
Speaker 1: Do you think though, that they're going to look to

2461
01:54:18,479 --> 01:54:20,520
do anything where it's let's see what we can get

2462
01:54:20,560 --> 01:54:23,000
if we attach this to Julius Randall, because it doesn't

2463
01:54:23,039 --> 01:54:25,600
seem like those are the terms they're thinking.

2464
01:54:25,680 --> 01:54:29,279
Speaker 2: And I think, and specifically I think you would look

2465
01:54:29,319 --> 01:54:31,680
at this situation normally and say, what can we turn

2466
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:36,520
Randall and that that first into that maybe extends out

2467
01:54:36,720 --> 01:54:38,800
another couple of years like that would that would be

2468
01:54:38,920 --> 01:54:41,760
how you like, why another team would take Randal on

2469
01:54:42,399 --> 01:54:44,199
is if they had a contract similar to his that

2470
01:54:44,239 --> 01:54:46,920
they didn't want to be on the hook for or whatever.

2471
01:54:47,720 --> 01:54:50,720
The fact that the Wolves made the Randall trade tells

2472
01:54:50,760 --> 01:54:53,279
me that they don't want money that's going out beyond

2473
01:54:53,359 --> 01:54:56,159
what Randall's probably I don't know what. We should have

2474
01:54:56,159 --> 01:54:58,159
a player option discussion at some point on here, like

2475
01:54:58,399 --> 01:55:01,359
odds of players picking them up, but like, doesn't that

2476
01:55:01,399 --> 01:55:05,000
seem like the reality there where it's part of the

2477
01:55:05,039 --> 01:55:07,560
reason Randall's on the team is because the Wolves wanted

2478
01:55:07,640 --> 01:55:10,840
to get cheaper over the next several years. And so like,

2479
01:55:11,399 --> 01:55:13,840
how does that square with giving him up and at

2480
01:55:13,880 --> 01:55:17,239
first to take somebody on that will just cost you

2481
01:55:17,279 --> 01:55:20,399
more money. You know, the next two three seasons.

2482
01:55:20,199 --> 01:55:22,520
Speaker 1: What happens with him will be fascinating because if they

2483
01:55:22,560 --> 01:55:24,640
allow him to just pick up his player option, or

2484
01:55:24,680 --> 01:55:26,800
if he opts out and they just let him leave,

2485
01:55:27,359 --> 01:55:30,000
that it was clearly financially motivated that they. I guess

2486
01:55:30,079 --> 01:55:31,880
even if they had him opt out and signed him

2487
01:55:31,880 --> 01:55:34,199
to a short like a longer term deal worth less money,

2488
01:55:34,479 --> 01:55:36,439
it's still not quite clear. I think it was pretty

2489
01:55:36,439 --> 01:55:40,119
financially motivated, but there was. We tried to justify the

2490
01:55:40,159 --> 01:55:43,520
basketball perspective of it all, and I look, you know,

2491
01:55:43,800 --> 01:55:47,760
we've kind of killed Julius Randall a lot. Julius Randall's

2492
01:55:47,760 --> 01:55:51,479
been about what you could expect from Julius Randall. I

2493
01:55:51,520 --> 01:55:54,960
don't like. I don't individually like what disappoints you that

2494
01:55:55,039 --> 01:55:57,600
you didn't already know about if you're if anything, he

2495
01:55:57,720 --> 01:55:59,760
spent more time off the ball, like been okay, spending

2496
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:00,640
more time I'm off the ball?

2497
01:56:00,800 --> 01:56:04,840
Speaker 2: I expected, Yeah, I think no, if you were familiar

2498
01:56:04,880 --> 01:56:08,800
with Julius Randall's game, uh, this is what it is.

2499
01:56:09,000 --> 01:56:11,079
And and and maybe it's been even a little better.

2500
01:56:11,119 --> 01:56:13,520
But yeah, no, I don't. I don't think you can

2501
01:56:13,560 --> 01:56:16,760
be disappointed in Julius Randall. You can be disappointed in

2502
01:56:16,800 --> 01:56:19,520
the Wolves for either a making a financially motivated move

2503
01:56:19,600 --> 01:56:22,479
or be thinking Julius Randall would be something like very

2504
01:56:22,479 --> 01:56:24,239
different from what he'd been in the past, But like

2505
01:56:24,279 --> 01:56:26,720
you can't be I guess to be clear, in general,

2506
01:56:26,760 --> 01:56:29,720
when we're like being annoyed at Randall, it's like we're

2507
01:56:29,760 --> 01:56:33,279
not actually annoyed at the person. It's just like what

2508
01:56:33,319 --> 01:56:36,119
he's what the team thought he would.

2509
01:56:35,920 --> 01:56:40,119
Speaker 1: Be, honestly, because the bigger story is like, Okay, Mike Comedy,

2510
01:56:40,159 --> 01:56:42,439
I think was he shooting almost forty percent from three

2511
01:56:42,560 --> 01:56:45,520
over his past ten games, but he has not played

2512
01:56:45,520 --> 01:56:48,960
particularly well this season. Rob Dillingham has been seldom used

2513
01:56:49,000 --> 01:56:51,840
and injured a bunch dealt with ankle stuff. And so

2514
01:56:52,199 --> 01:56:55,479
is that the cardinal sin not thinking that like or

2515
01:56:55,520 --> 01:56:57,560
if you thought because I guess they thought Julius Randall

2516
01:56:57,600 --> 01:57:00,359
could be like a quasi not for general, but help

2517
01:57:00,399 --> 01:57:02,600
bridge the gap between Okay, we have this much left

2518
01:57:02,640 --> 01:57:05,119
of Commley and then Dillingham will eventually be ready and

2519
01:57:05,159 --> 01:57:07,960
Julius Randall's gonna just help us, you know, bridge that

2520
01:57:08,000 --> 01:57:10,119
gap even more, Like is that like I don't know

2521
01:57:10,159 --> 01:57:12,680
what the actual cardinal sin of this team is, because

2522
01:57:12,880 --> 01:57:14,880
had you kept Towns, they're probably I do think they're

2523
01:57:14,920 --> 01:57:18,039
probably better than they are right now. Devincenzo's playing better,

2524
01:57:18,079 --> 01:57:20,960
but they're like this team has made a couple of missteps.

2525
01:57:21,920 --> 01:57:25,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it. I think it was just

2526
01:57:25,840 --> 01:57:28,039
the farther we get from it, the more it's just

2527
01:57:28,079 --> 01:57:30,479
like it was money because you made yourself worse. You

2528
01:57:30,520 --> 01:57:34,439
took a team that was a conference finalist, and it's

2529
01:57:34,520 --> 01:57:37,600
not like you traded Towns for I mean, you kind

2530
01:57:37,600 --> 01:57:39,359
of traded Towns for a guy who plays the same

2531
01:57:39,359 --> 01:57:43,359
position less effectively and is worse on defense somehow and

2532
01:57:43,479 --> 01:57:45,600
like a shooter, which is like, it's just we tried

2533
01:57:45,600 --> 01:57:48,279
to justify it. I think there were like semi reasonable

2534
01:57:48,279 --> 01:57:51,199
cases to be made if everything like broke right, But yeah,

2535
01:57:51,239 --> 01:57:55,800
it just the mistake was I guess maybe the mistake

2536
01:57:55,920 --> 01:57:58,079
was signing Towns so that that size of a deal

2537
01:57:58,119 --> 01:57:59,960
to where you just decided you had to get off.

2538
01:58:00,479 --> 01:58:02,600
Speaker 1: The thing with Towns this season, because when you approach

2539
01:58:02,640 --> 01:58:04,319
it from the self creation element, it's like, well, look

2540
01:58:04,319 --> 01:58:05,960
at what he's doing in New York. And it's well,

2541
01:58:05,960 --> 01:58:08,359
he was never gonna have that agency or space in

2542
01:58:08,359 --> 01:58:12,199
Minnesota because they weren't using him at the five as often.

2543
01:58:12,319 --> 01:58:14,479
And that's what so is that the Cardinals cit you

2544
01:58:14,520 --> 01:58:16,439
should have just kept the team together, that's the answer.

2545
01:58:16,479 --> 01:58:19,680
But I don't expect them to do anything. If I

2546
01:58:19,720 --> 01:58:21,439
were them, I've mentioned this to you, I would just

2547
01:58:21,720 --> 01:58:24,319
would you at least consider. I don't know why Utah

2548
01:58:24,359 --> 01:58:25,800
would do this in a vacuum, Like if you can

2549
01:58:25,920 --> 01:58:30,159
use Julius Randall and the Detroit pick to get John Collins?

2550
01:58:30,319 --> 01:58:32,079
Is that too much? Like are you looking at it?

2551
01:58:32,079 --> 01:58:33,920
Can we use seconds instead? And I don't even know

2552
01:58:33,960 --> 01:58:36,319
what their second round commitments are off rip And if

2553
01:58:36,319 --> 01:58:38,039
I'm Utah, I don't really know why I would do

2554
01:58:38,079 --> 01:58:40,680
it for seconds unless you just wanted You think Julius

2555
01:58:40,720 --> 01:58:42,319
Randall's gonna opt out because you don't want to be

2556
01:58:42,319 --> 01:58:44,079
in Utah and you want to get off that money.

2557
01:58:44,720 --> 01:58:46,319
Speaker 2: That's that's the thing where it's like, oh, they could

2558
01:58:46,319 --> 01:58:48,039
clear thirty million in space.

2559
01:58:47,800 --> 01:58:51,399
Speaker 1: Like to do Actually, they have Utah's second this year,

2560
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:56,439
beck Julius Randall, utah second and another second for John Collins.

2561
01:58:57,319 --> 01:58:58,079
Speaker 2: I think I do that.

2562
01:58:58,119 --> 01:59:02,159
Speaker 1: If I'm the Wolves, I think they're so invested. At

2563
01:59:02,199 --> 01:59:04,840
least Chris Finch seems functionally invested in like and he

2564
01:59:04,840 --> 01:59:07,000
even said Julius Randall's done everything they've asked him too,

2565
01:59:07,000 --> 01:59:08,640
and they have used him in a bunch of different ways.

2566
01:59:08,640 --> 01:59:11,399
It's just man talk about a team's ruining the vibes.

2567
01:59:11,640 --> 01:59:12,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, too bad.

2568
01:59:12,640 --> 01:59:15,119
Speaker 1: Our next team is your team, but technically my team.

2569
01:59:15,359 --> 01:59:17,640
Speaker 2: Great vibes here, except you don't believe in him. The

2570
01:59:17,640 --> 01:59:20,000
New York Knicks can trade the Wizards twenty twenty five

2571
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:23,760
first with top ten protection, so good good for them

2572
01:59:24,159 --> 01:59:27,479
topy We already said topy protected in twenty six then

2573
01:59:27,600 --> 01:59:29,279
who like Who's like, Oh, I gotta get a piece

2574
01:59:29,279 --> 01:59:33,439
of that that top ten protected Wizards pick. Can't wait

2575
01:59:33,479 --> 01:59:36,680
till I get the number thirteen pick, Like, you're so

2576
01:59:36,840 --> 01:59:38,960
what they can trade are twenty six and twenty seven

2577
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:41,359
seconds because that's what that pick is going to ultimately

2578
01:59:41,399 --> 01:59:45,560
be and a twenty thirty swap. Uh do you do

2579
01:59:45,640 --> 01:59:47,680
anything or you just wait for Mitchell Robinson to come

2580
01:59:47,720 --> 01:59:49,000
back and fix the whole operation.

2581
01:59:49,239 --> 01:59:51,119
Speaker 1: That's the It's like, I don't even what could you do?

2582
01:59:51,199 --> 01:59:53,199
I don't think they're gonna do anything, because I do

2583
01:59:53,279 --> 01:59:56,800
think Mitchell Robinson is a people forgotten which is fair

2584
01:59:56,880 --> 01:59:59,000
like he is super he's super limited on offense. He's

2585
01:59:59,039 --> 02:00:02,119
incredibly value on defense and as an offensive rebounder, but

2586
02:00:02,159 --> 02:00:04,520
he's never healthy. So that money he's on it's not

2587
02:00:04,560 --> 02:00:06,960
a ton it's below the mid level, but he's not playing,

2588
02:00:07,119 --> 02:00:09,800
So that's a bad like in theory and negative contract

2589
02:00:09,840 --> 02:00:13,479
around the league, what does Mitchell Robinson end the Washington

2590
02:00:13,760 --> 02:00:16,680
pick get you? And if you're willing to include a swap,

2591
02:00:16,760 --> 02:00:20,000
if you could get Robert Williams the third, would you

2592
02:00:20,079 --> 02:00:22,399
do that? Because then you're just getting someone who plays

2593
02:00:22,399 --> 02:00:24,319
your second best player's best position.

2594
02:00:24,399 --> 02:00:26,600
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing is like, is that even guaranteed

2595
02:00:26,640 --> 02:00:30,079
to be any better than like, I think the high

2596
02:00:30,199 --> 02:00:33,000
end of what Mitchell Robinson will give you is like,

2597
02:00:33,279 --> 02:00:35,079
is definitely not worse than the high end of what

2598
02:00:35,159 --> 02:00:37,479
Robert Williams the Third is going. Well, maybe not the

2599
02:00:37,520 --> 02:00:39,399
high end of rober Williams the third is kind of

2600
02:00:39,439 --> 02:00:42,199
an interesting player, but like, if you're I guess if

2601
02:00:42,199 --> 02:00:45,119
you're pricing in the injury of stuff, it's with Williams specifically,

2602
02:00:45,199 --> 02:00:47,319
it's like, well, he's as likely or more likely to

2603
02:00:47,439 --> 02:00:51,680
just not play as Robinson. So, like I was asking,

2604
02:00:51,720 --> 02:00:53,399
like facetiously, because I think you do just wait for

2605
02:00:53,479 --> 02:00:56,000
Robinson to come back and just assume that he's gonna

2606
02:00:56,000 --> 02:00:56,640
solve some of.

2607
02:00:56,640 --> 02:00:59,199
Speaker 1: Your problems unless you really like the idea of it

2608
02:00:59,279 --> 02:01:02,000
being precious and you want to use Robinson. Can you

2609
02:01:02,000 --> 02:01:05,239
get some type of reserve wing in there? But again,

2610
02:01:05,399 --> 02:01:06,760
the thing I came up is like, what would you

2611
02:01:06,840 --> 02:01:09,520
need to give Charlotte to get Nick Richards and Cody

2612
02:01:09,560 --> 02:01:12,000
Martin for Mitchell Robinson? I don't like, do you just

2613
02:01:12,039 --> 02:01:15,239
give up the Washington first? But the Washington anyone who's

2614
02:01:15,239 --> 02:01:16,479
watching quote first?

2615
02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:18,800
Speaker 2: Do you give up the twenty six and twenty seven

2616
02:01:18,840 --> 02:01:19,399
seconds for?

2617
02:01:19,800 --> 02:01:21,560
Speaker 1: Yeah? Like, do you do that? Because I think you

2618
02:01:21,560 --> 02:01:24,439
could argue Mitchell Robinson is better when he's healthy than

2619
02:01:24,439 --> 02:01:26,960
the two players that are coming in. Well, Cody Martin's

2620
02:01:26,960 --> 02:01:27,279
a goat.

2621
02:01:27,319 --> 02:01:29,199
Speaker 2: But you know what I'm saying, No, I think that's right.

2622
02:01:29,319 --> 02:01:33,359
I think Robinson is like in a weird place value wise,

2623
02:01:33,399 --> 02:01:36,920
where like if you're an acquiring team, that's you probably

2624
02:01:36,960 --> 02:01:38,960
are viewing that as like dead money or you know

2625
02:01:39,000 --> 02:01:40,520
what I mean, Like you don't care that it's Mitchel

2626
02:01:40,560 --> 02:01:42,520
Robinson so much, and if.

2627
02:01:42,359 --> 02:01:44,039
Speaker 1: You I had thought a little bit about like if

2628
02:01:44,039 --> 02:01:46,000
you could get so it'd be Mitchell Robinson plus a

2629
02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:48,800
small salary. And then had you not traded the Detroit pick,

2630
02:01:49,159 --> 02:01:51,520
could you have sent that pick back to Detroit maybe

2631
02:01:51,520 --> 02:01:53,840
even with this swap and gotten Isaiah Stewart or is

2632
02:01:53,840 --> 02:01:54,920
that not enough to do that.

2633
02:01:55,199 --> 02:01:58,199
Speaker 2: I don't think that's a Stewart would be man. I

2634
02:01:58,199 --> 02:02:02,159
totally agree, but yeah, that would be a would be

2635
02:02:02,199 --> 02:02:04,159
a huge win if that were possible.

2636
02:02:04,239 --> 02:02:06,039
Speaker 1: Do you agree though, that their biggest need is probably

2637
02:02:06,039 --> 02:02:09,000
like a reserve because they're similar to you mentioned this

2638
02:02:09,119 --> 02:02:13,119
with uh Denver. It's like they're closing lineup is set.

2639
02:02:13,600 --> 02:02:15,720
You're not getting someone better than Josh Hart.

2640
02:02:16,960 --> 02:02:21,520
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, they're closing lineup set, And I think like, yeah, yeah,

2641
02:02:21,520 --> 02:02:24,039
it has to be set. But it's like with Robinson

2642
02:02:24,119 --> 02:02:27,399
back you move towns to the four for some percentage

2643
02:02:27,399 --> 02:02:29,600
of the minutes, Like you also have like this other

2644
02:02:29,640 --> 02:02:31,760
interesting look, so like it's not another big I think

2645
02:02:31,760 --> 02:02:34,279
you're just hoping it's Robinson. So one more body that

2646
02:02:34,319 --> 02:02:36,159
could play on the wing would be would be nice.

2647
02:02:36,239 --> 02:02:39,600
Speaker 1: And there's just something uninspiring about trading Mitchell Robinson for

2648
02:02:39,720 --> 02:02:42,399
someone who you're hoping can be your seventh or eighth

2649
02:02:42,479 --> 02:02:45,119
best player, because that's what unless you think Mitch Robinson's

2650
02:02:45,119 --> 02:02:46,079
never gonna be healthy again.

2651
02:02:46,199 --> 02:02:48,000
Speaker 2: I just don't know why, and which the Knicks would

2652
02:02:48,039 --> 02:02:50,000
be in a position to know too, So like if

2653
02:02:50,039 --> 02:02:52,079
they do move him, you we should assume that that's

2654
02:02:52,319 --> 02:02:53,239
the analysis.

2655
02:02:53,840 --> 02:02:58,479
Speaker 1: Our final team, the Phoenix Suns, perhaps the team most

2656
02:02:58,640 --> 02:03:02,039
likely to trade just at first round pick. They've been

2657
02:03:02,039 --> 02:03:04,920
linked to Jimmy Butler. They can trade guys. Get ready,

2658
02:03:04,920 --> 02:03:08,319
it's a long list. They're twenty thirty one first and

2659
02:03:08,399 --> 02:03:13,039
that's it. So the questions here I have two For one,

2660
02:03:13,560 --> 02:03:15,199
do you think that they could get a first for

2661
02:03:15,359 --> 02:03:16,920
Ryan Donn or Ohsoe Gadaro.

2662
02:03:17,840 --> 02:03:20,640
Speaker 2: We talk about this all the time. I think I

2663
02:03:20,680 --> 02:03:23,560
think the best you could do with either of those

2664
02:03:23,600 --> 02:03:27,319
guys is like a is kind of like the Washington

2665
02:03:27,359 --> 02:03:29,760
first that we just talked about, or maybe a little

2666
02:03:29,800 --> 02:03:30,680
better than that, or.

2667
02:03:31,039 --> 02:03:33,720
Speaker 1: Or it's like Okac or Boston gave up this year's

2668
02:03:33,720 --> 02:03:35,640
first and you're picking twenty ninth overall.

2669
02:03:35,760 --> 02:03:38,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're getting like the worst of half the league's

2670
02:03:38,960 --> 02:03:40,640
you know, twenty twenty six round. You know, you know

2671
02:03:40,680 --> 02:03:42,319
what I mean, Like, it's not gonna be a true

2672
02:03:42,319 --> 02:03:44,119
blue first round er. I just don't see.

2673
02:03:43,920 --> 02:03:47,039
Speaker 1: It now unless that's the difference then between getting Jimmy

2674
02:03:47,039 --> 02:03:49,000
Butler and not getting Jimmy Butler. But I think that

2675
02:03:49,920 --> 02:03:53,319
I'm probably not doing it, is my point philosophically. There

2676
02:03:53,359 --> 02:03:56,439
are two questions here, are you giving up the twenty

2677
02:03:56,479 --> 02:03:59,399
thirty one first and Bradley Beal to get Jimmy Butler?

2678
02:03:59,600 --> 02:04:02,960
And I think I think there probably I would there

2679
02:04:03,000 --> 02:04:06,119
We could argue that, yeah, just do it, like why

2680
02:04:06,159 --> 02:04:08,880
wouldn't you do it? But like, is Jimmy Butler like

2681
02:04:08,880 --> 02:04:10,720
this team? The vibes are off well, I mean they

2682
02:04:10,720 --> 02:04:12,680
won the other night and the vibe seemed pretty good there,

2683
02:04:13,399 --> 02:04:16,000
but like you're now just mortgaging more and more of

2684
02:04:16,039 --> 02:04:18,399
your future and just knowing the inevitables is gonna come

2685
02:04:18,399 --> 02:04:20,560
where you're gonna suck and it's gonna be rough and

2686
02:04:20,600 --> 02:04:22,920
you have how much have you really increased your title

2687
02:04:22,960 --> 02:04:26,479
stock this season when Jimmy Butler doesn't upgrade your center rotation?

2688
02:04:27,239 --> 02:04:29,560
So I think there's an argument to be made that no,

2689
02:04:29,880 --> 02:04:32,359
there's you don't want to get Jimmy Butler because you

2690
02:04:32,399 --> 02:04:33,960
have to strip it down at some point, and this

2691
02:04:34,000 --> 02:04:36,880
isn't gonna be like increase your title ods enough. But

2692
02:04:36,920 --> 02:04:39,840
I think the and I think this is the correct argument.

2693
02:04:39,880 --> 02:04:42,600
Though the opposite of that would be, if you have

2694
02:04:42,640 --> 02:04:45,520
to blow it up, Jimmy Butler will get you something

2695
02:04:45,520 --> 02:04:48,000
and won't have a no trade clause. Bradley Beal isn't

2696
02:04:48,000 --> 02:04:50,159
gonna get you anything and has a no trade clause.

2697
02:04:50,520 --> 02:04:52,880
Speaker 2: And if you have to blow it up, you're getting

2698
02:04:53,199 --> 02:04:57,159
good stuff for Durant and Booker. So like So in

2699
02:04:57,199 --> 02:05:00,399
answer the first question, if it's if it's Bale twenty

2700
02:05:00,439 --> 02:05:03,239
thirty one for Butler, I'm definitely doing that, I think.

2701
02:05:03,479 --> 02:05:06,520
And that's with knowing I'm gonna pay Butler one oh

2702
02:05:06,840 --> 02:05:08,960
six or one twelve for the next two years on

2703
02:05:09,000 --> 02:05:11,840
that extension, because that's just Beal money anyway. And I

2704
02:05:11,840 --> 02:05:14,720
think Butler's a better player than Beal, and and from

2705
02:05:14,720 --> 02:05:17,159
Phoenix's perspective, it's just on brand because it's like, well

2706
02:05:17,159 --> 02:05:20,840
that let's get the bigger star, like I whatever, Like

2707
02:05:20,920 --> 02:05:23,840
you know, you're so far you're so far in with

2708
02:05:23,880 --> 02:05:25,880
Beal that what's the difference, Like you might as well

2709
02:05:25,920 --> 02:05:27,840
be a little better and give up that twenty thirty one.

2710
02:05:27,880 --> 02:05:31,239
That's that's how they've operated since this ownership group took over.

2711
02:05:31,760 --> 02:05:33,399
Speaker 1: And by the way, this is similar to what you

2712
02:05:33,439 --> 02:05:35,920
said about Julius Randall. I kind of hate the way

2713
02:05:35,920 --> 02:05:38,199
that people are framing Bradley Bealle a some type of villain,

2714
02:05:38,239 --> 02:05:40,079
Like why won't he just wave his no trade calls?

2715
02:05:40,239 --> 02:05:42,560
Or he looks unhappy and he wants to leave. First

2716
02:05:42,560 --> 02:05:45,199
of all, we don't even he probably would wave his

2717
02:05:45,239 --> 02:05:47,000
no trade clause go to Miami, but the reporting is

2718
02:05:47,000 --> 02:05:48,920
Miami doesn't want him. So that's like, you can't be

2719
02:05:48,960 --> 02:05:51,640
mad at Bradley Beal for for that. Bradley Beal could

2720
02:05:51,640 --> 02:05:53,199
be mad that this is how he's being treated, but

2721
02:05:53,520 --> 02:05:55,760
he's the one that negotiated this contract, got the no

2722
02:05:55,840 --> 02:05:57,680
trade clause, Like that's why the pressure is coming. I

2723
02:05:57,720 --> 02:06:00,199
just I that's the contract team to go. You cant

2724
02:06:00,199 --> 02:06:01,279
get mad at Bradley Beal.

2725
02:06:01,920 --> 02:06:04,399
Speaker 2: Bradley Bill is a stud, Like good for you, man,

2726
02:06:04,560 --> 02:06:09,319
Like you got a massive deal, Bradley Bial won. Bradley

2727
02:06:09,319 --> 02:06:10,960
Bill is a winner, Like he got a deal he

2728
02:06:11,039 --> 02:06:14,119
never should have gotten with clauses that literally nobody else gets.

2729
02:06:14,600 --> 02:06:17,039
And yeah, this is a shitty fit. And like he's

2730
02:06:17,079 --> 02:06:20,640
diminished because of injury, but like, that's not what you like.

2731
02:06:21,039 --> 02:06:24,000
He's he's he's the biggest winner out of anybody involved

2732
02:06:24,319 --> 02:06:25,079
and insummation.

2733
02:06:25,359 --> 02:06:27,600
Speaker 1: That's why that Wizard's pick going to the Knicks is

2734
02:06:27,600 --> 02:06:30,560
never gonna con May you just that? But the other

2735
02:06:30,680 --> 02:06:33,319
question then would be, let's say Miami sends Jimmy Butler

2736
02:06:33,479 --> 02:06:36,600
somewhere else or just refuses to trade him. Are you

2737
02:06:36,680 --> 02:06:38,560
willing to move? Like? Should they be willing to move?

2738
02:06:38,560 --> 02:06:38,640
Speaker 2: This?

2739
02:06:38,720 --> 02:06:42,399
Speaker 1: Twenty thirty one first attached to is it Grayson Allen

2740
02:06:42,520 --> 02:06:44,319
or is it use of nurkice? And again this is

2741
02:06:44,560 --> 02:06:46,279
we don't have the notes here. Because Milwaukee was the

2742
02:06:46,279 --> 02:06:48,840
first team, their second apron team, they can say they

2743
02:06:48,880 --> 02:06:51,079
can't aggregate salaries, they can't take back more money than

2744
02:06:51,079 --> 02:06:53,159
they receive. They are not even close enough to the

2745
02:06:53,199 --> 02:06:57,560
second apron to get out of it realistically, like use

2746
02:06:57,640 --> 02:07:00,560
of like as a framework, use off nurk and twenty

2747
02:07:00,600 --> 02:07:03,000
thirty one for Isaiah Stewart, is that a deal you're doing?

2748
02:07:03,359 --> 02:07:03,640
Speaker 2: Yep?

2749
02:07:04,279 --> 02:07:07,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they they're they're in the mode of we're

2750
02:07:07,039 --> 02:07:08,880
i mean talking about it a non star, like a

2751
02:07:08,960 --> 02:07:11,359
role player that is gonna play maybe twenty twenty five

2752
02:07:11,359 --> 02:07:13,039
minutes a game, if you gets you out of Nurkic's

2753
02:07:13,079 --> 02:07:15,880
money and it upgrades your rotation, like you just need

2754
02:07:15,920 --> 02:07:16,239
to do it.

2755
02:07:16,560 --> 02:07:19,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so, I mean, you're the pop committed.

2756
02:07:19,399 --> 02:07:23,920
Argument is sometimes like a fallacy, but like what you said,

2757
02:07:23,960 --> 02:07:27,840
it up proNT, like this is gonna go totally upside

2758
02:07:27,880 --> 02:07:30,840
down sooner than later. And when that happens, you do

2759
02:07:30,920 --> 02:07:33,960
have guys you can trade for somebody Else's a good

2760
02:07:34,000 --> 02:07:37,760
chunk of someone else's draft. So like, I guess the

2761
02:07:37,800 --> 02:07:41,039
counter argument is like Stewart over Nurkic does not get

2762
02:07:41,079 --> 02:07:43,560
this team into the Contender's inner circle or anywhere close

2763
02:07:43,600 --> 02:07:46,199
to it. So what's the point from that perspective? But

2764
02:07:46,359 --> 02:07:49,079
like it's kind of a you come this far, why not,

2765
02:07:49,399 --> 02:07:51,279
Like you still have the you can pull the ripcord

2766
02:07:51,279 --> 02:07:53,960
and trade Durant and Booker and you're you'll you'll survive.

2767
02:07:54,479 --> 02:07:56,239
But like, but my.

2768
02:07:56,239 --> 02:08:01,039
Speaker 1: Whole thing there is is Isaiah Stewart gonna prevent maybe

2769
02:08:01,199 --> 02:08:03,399
by the trade deadline. But let's use Kevin Durant as

2770
02:08:03,399 --> 02:08:05,000
the example. Like if they don't make a move, I

2771
02:08:05,000 --> 02:08:07,359
could see Kevin Durant just being like, dude, trade me.

2772
02:08:07,399 --> 02:08:10,520
I'm not gonna sign an extension here if that's not

2773
02:08:10,560 --> 02:08:13,199
gonna be like, shouldn't you pearl clutch your twenty thirty

2774
02:08:13,239 --> 02:08:15,000
one first round or a little bit harder kind of

2775
02:08:15,000 --> 02:08:18,760
knowing that sentiments on the table and Isaiah Stewart again,

2776
02:08:18,760 --> 02:08:21,680
maybe he play kates your stars for now. But if

2777
02:08:21,720 --> 02:08:25,399
all it's doing is delaying something coming to a head

2778
02:08:25,399 --> 02:08:27,319
with Kevin Durant specifically over the off season, but w

2779
02:08:27,319 --> 02:08:29,159
if something comes to a head with Kevin Durant, that

2780
02:08:29,279 --> 02:08:32,039
just means the Devin Booker Crossroads is coming up.

2781
02:08:32,159 --> 02:08:35,279
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's all related, that's all tied together like

2782
02:08:35,319 --> 02:08:37,680
one happens. That's you need to just treat it as

2783
02:08:37,680 --> 02:08:41,560
like a full tear down. Yeah, I mean I see

2784
02:08:41,600 --> 02:08:45,359
your point. But like I mean, you might just argue

2785
02:08:45,359 --> 02:08:47,720
that the Durant trade request is coming no matter what

2786
02:08:47,760 --> 02:08:50,239
you do, so and nobody knows when, so you might

2787
02:08:50,279 --> 02:08:52,039
as well trade that thirty one if you think it

2788
02:08:52,119 --> 02:08:55,119
makes you. That's really as we talk about it, the

2789
02:08:55,159 --> 02:08:58,479
fact that like the Suns can't get anyone using that pick,

2790
02:08:59,119 --> 02:09:01,159
if it's you or I, our logic would be, we

2791
02:09:01,199 --> 02:09:05,039
can't get anyone using this pick to meaningfully change like

2792
02:09:05,079 --> 02:09:07,520
the level we can hit, so why would we trade it.

2793
02:09:08,000 --> 02:09:10,039
I don't think that's how the Suns look at things,

2794
02:09:10,640 --> 02:09:12,560
you know what I mean? Like, I think they view

2795
02:09:12,600 --> 02:09:16,000
it as we can get a better player today, and

2796
02:09:16,039 --> 02:09:16,840
so we'll do that.

2797
02:09:17,239 --> 02:09:19,840
Speaker 1: And they're so pocamated that if it's if it means that, oh,

2798
02:09:19,840 --> 02:09:21,960
we get to keep Kevin Durant happy for the rest

2799
02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:24,119
of just this season, Like you just have to make that.

2800
02:09:24,199 --> 02:09:27,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Their time horizon is like, you know, three

2801
02:09:27,640 --> 02:09:29,680
feet away. That's how they view the world.

2802
02:09:30,119 --> 02:09:32,359
Speaker 1: With that, I think we're done. Unless you have anything

2803
02:09:32,399 --> 02:09:33,920
else to d grant you want to take us out

2804
02:09:33,920 --> 02:09:34,159
of here.

2805
02:09:35,279 --> 02:09:37,359
Speaker 2: First of all, I will say that this was highly instructive,

2806
02:09:37,359 --> 02:09:39,560
and I will be referring to this document several times

2807
02:09:39,560 --> 02:09:41,600
and watching this podcast over and over so I can

2808
02:09:41,600 --> 02:09:45,520
see the graphics that explain all the pick obligations. Thanks Dan,

2809
02:09:45,600 --> 02:09:48,119
Thanks everybody for watching, for listening. Hopefully this was helpful.

2810
02:09:48,199 --> 02:09:49,920
Keep all this stuff in mind. If you're making up

2811
02:09:49,960 --> 02:09:54,760
fake trades, it kind of matters. As always, please rate, review, subscribe,

2812
02:09:54,800 --> 02:09:57,000
give us five stars wherever you're listening. Make sure you're

2813
02:09:57,000 --> 02:09:58,840
subscribing on YouTube. Make sure your thumbs up in the

2814
02:09:58,880 --> 02:10:01,600
videos leaving comments A that good stuff really helps things out.

2815
02:10:02,119 --> 02:10:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna add something before we close. Herb Jones is

2816
02:10:04,560 --> 02:10:06,960
out in definitely with a torn labram in his shoulder,

2817
02:10:07,039 --> 02:10:08,560
so we talked about him a little bit in this episode.

2818
02:10:08,600 --> 02:10:10,600
I'm not going to add something at the front. The

2819
02:10:10,600 --> 02:10:14,359
Pelicans are so fucked, man, that team is cursed curs.

2820
02:10:16,359 --> 02:10:17,680
Speaker 2: That's rough, that's rough.

2821
02:10:18,000 --> 02:10:20,800
Speaker 1: That's rough stuff. So I guess, insummation, I probably wouldn't

2822
02:10:20,840 --> 02:10:22,199
trade two first round picks for Herb.

2823
02:10:22,119 --> 02:10:25,239
Speaker 2: Jones this season. That's maybe, maybe now is the best

2824
02:10:25,239 --> 02:10:30,600
time to do that, shouts Frank Milo Keene. Apologies, Jared

2825
02:10:30,600 --> 02:10:30,880
Allen