Speaker 1: Well, hello, we welcome to episode three hundred and eighteen
of Hobby Hotline. I'm Danny, and I think Chris's camera
is gonna kick him in the second here. He's uh,
he's in a bad weather area. But we've got some
great content this morning. Let me start out by saying
episode three eighteen again, because that's crazy to me. Mad
City Brew, Good morning, he said, who didn't catch the
Otani ball? I am filing to suit also for that.
I watched it in one apiece able. Good morning, Reuben
pulling the overnight shift with me here. I'm just here
to help Mike Petty put this show on all the
TVs at best Buy. That's one of my favorite. It's
a tradition like no other with Hobby Hotline, got some
great topics today. Chris Carlin is calling in from the
Music City Card Show, so we're going to have him
joining us, hopefully shortly. But I did want to start
off before Chris gets here talking about the fifty the ball.
It's already gone crazy. Yes, good morning, first day of
life without Karl Anthony Towns in Minnesota. He's now a
New York Nick. I wonder what that does for his
cards that's got to be a big uptaking the cards
going to that market. Sad from Minnesota though, and they
got eliminated. Twins got eliminated last night rough in Minneapolis.
But so Tani, fifty to fifty. How much do you
guys think that ball is going to go for? That's
the biggest question. I'll admit I undershot it. My guess
would have been between a half million and a million,
and I think it's blowing right past that. So I
wonder what you guys think there you go, one more
home run atany will be fifty five. How relevant is
the ball? You know, sixty sixty. If he could get
to sixty sixty, that I think would be a little
bit more relevant. Yeah, Bob, Danny finally knocked the others
to get his own bench. Clar show hardly, hardly, Bob.
We got some people fighting some tough situations health and weather.
So you know, just trying to pick up the load
here and appreciate the chat room today. You guys are
gonna help carry the show, So don't be afraid to
tap in and let me put the link in the chat. Also,
so if anybody wants to jump on, please feel free
and hopefully you're in better weather than Chris Carlin is.
So what do you guys think that ball is going
to go for.
Speaker 2: Mike?
Speaker 1: We've got some sick people and some people fighting some
weather down south, So I'm going solo here Stukes. I
might have some big time bidders from his home country
in Japan, maybe a one point five million? Does that
end at one point five million? I, like I said,
I would have guessed between a half million and a million,
And it looks like it's gonna fly by that. And
this is a good question if what if next year
he does sixty sixty or does fifty to fifty again?
Does that ball carry the same price if it's not
the only time? And how about ronaldccuna last year going
forty seventy? Does anybody have more respect for that now?
Because that was pretty impressive? And here he is, Chris Carlin,
what's going on?
Speaker 2: Well, there's some weather out here in Nashville, so apologize
that had to get a different WiFi set up going.
Speaker 1: Not a problem at all. So why don't you tell
everybody where you are and what you're doing?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the Music City Card Show is ah a
pretty cool event. It's actually in a book. Uh, kind
of cool this up. But you've got dealers all over
the place here, our tables, very eclectic mix of collectible
care what I what? I it is really cool. I
want the shows where I just see the same stuff
over and over again. And uh, they have a lot
of music memorabilia, signed guitars, you know, signed album the
things you want to normally see. Uh, and then a
tremendous amount of you know, there's always the football, basketball,
but a tremendous amount of wrestling is here, which is
really kind. And the thing that that blew my mind
yesterday is I'm here before the show starts and there's
a booth called cool Zoo and I guess they uh
it's a profit that's designed to expose people to unique animals.
But there was just a little bingaroot chilling in a
cage in their booth. And then they had crocadile that
you could hold. They had a baby monkey, d what else?
There's a snake And then the one I had to
do was they had a sloth. So what am I
going to ever hold a slop? I did it and
it was pretty cool. So I've never seen that at
a card show, but it's definitely made it made it
unique for sure. So PSA is here taking in submissions.
But what's that The.
Speaker 1: Enny sounds like a petting zoo with a card show.
Speaker 2: Kind of Again, I'd never seen anything like that before, so, uh,
that was pretty unique. And then we're also doing authentication
for a lot of the show signers. This show in
particular driven by show signers Mike Mike Tyson's the headliner,
a lot of other games, Lenny Dike st Johnny Bench,
those types. I think it's gonna be the weather kept
a lot of people away last night, but tomorrow, I
think you're extremely busy here. Uh and it's uh, the
really value out in Franklin. So if you're in the Tennessee,
I definitely come on down to the Music City show
and we'll take your PSA subs or authentic aid to
any items that you get ten at the show.
Speaker 1: And something that's very important right now in the hobby
is definitely protecting stuff. And I know you wanted to
touch on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, one thing that I saw quite frequently
in my years at Upper Deck, uh was loss collectors
having loss Obviously the wrong reasons would be theft things
along those lines, but there was also loss on things
that could have been prevented a bit. Fire is extremely
damaging to collectibles, obviously, but water is as well, and moisture,
as as most of us seasoned collectors know, really screws
up trading cards. So I dealt with quite a few
customers who had lost their entire collections because they had
things in the basement or on the first floor and
you know, on the ground, and they lost everything. And
it's it's really heartbreaking when you see someone's personal items
that they are so close to, that are so unique
and so awesome lost like that. So as I look
at what's happening in North Carolina in particular right now,
and thoughts and prayers to everyone out there, it makes
you realize, you know, as a collector, you've got to
be smart about how you're you're storing your items and
having them up high is a really good idea. Not
to pimp PSA's vaulting service, but there's there's a lot
of different services out there in the market to store
your cards in that are secure and in a very
safe environment. So I would encourage collectors to look at that,
but but be vigilant and you don't. You don't plan
that much for disasters, but when they come, they can
be just crippling, especially for collectibles. So very important that
that collectors are doing their due diligence to make sure
a their items are insured correctly and either they're storing
it in the right ways. So I don't know if
you've had any experience of that, Danny, but it's it's
a tough one when people lose everything that they've worked
so hard to build.
Speaker 1: Sadly I have. I had my entire collection stolen when
I was younger, and it's affected me as a collector
the rest of my life. I always try to have
one of the hobby insurance companies as a answer, because
I do believe it's important to protect your collection. Vaulting,
you know, whatever method you feel most comfortable, even a
safety deposit box, but definitely, h it's super important.
Speaker 2: We were talking, Yeah, I also had had a kid
come and visit me when I was like thirteen fourteen,
stayed with us for a couple of days. He was
really intrigued by my collection, and I was. I was
tickled that anyone was interested in the cards that I
had been putting together. But a week later I went
through all my cards and found where were all my
best ones and came to the sad realization that he
had ripped me off and to bummer. To bummer is
a real betrayal. But you're right, it always sticks with you.
And that violation of trust is a tough one. That
that just bums me out. And you know, I see
it a lot in shops where you'll have just just
really kind of heartbreaking stuff. You you know, you're a
shop owner. You get into this because you love the hobby,
you're passionate about it, and then you have kids coming
in and stealing from you. Or the worst one that
I was talking to one of my shop owners about
was a father and son working together, if you can
believe that, And uh, just such a bummer that uh
that that part of the hobby exists, But it is.
It is a tough one. It again, you've got to
be vigilant. You've got to keep uh be aware of
your surroundings and and make sure you're being smart when
you're at shows events, uh with your with your price collectibles.
Speaker 1: And and a shout out or a comment to the
sports card shop and Moco uh and those guys unfortunately
had a break in a couple of weeks ago. So
you know, it affects a lot more people than we
hear about, and let me give let me give them
a shout out here two okay, is the sports card
shop guys for your local LCS is you know it's
important for uh, for the community, and you know, be
vigilant is good advice. Chris. Yeah, all right, So before
you hopped on, we were talking a little show, Heir
Tommy and the fifty to fifty ball, uh some comments.
I thought the ball would go somewhere between a half
million and a million, and clearly it's going to surpass that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought one five to two million. I had
a bartender actually text me and ask me what I
thought it was going to go for. But but that's interesting,
right when I when when you have people out of
the hobby asking you about these items, that means it's
really getting some some mainstream attention. So with that attention,
you just need two bidders to go crazy on something
and who knows what will happen. So it'll be fun
to watch because I think there's eighteen days left and
it's over a million already.
Speaker 1: Yeah, something like that and I haven't checked since I
went to bed. It could be another million. Who knows, Yeah,
but somebody and I lost the comment in here if
I can find it, but it shows his popularity here
it is might have some big time bidders from his
home country in Japan, maybe a million five or you know,
maybe more. His popularity is far more than than Dodgers
fans and American baseball fans. And I know that that
you've got some experience with the popularity of the hobby
in Asia and you know the players over there. Can
you talk about a little bit just about how much
that's a booming hobby area.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a reason why PSA's you know,
collectors second headquarters was in Tokyo. Make sure that you
know we're servicing the needs of that community, which you
know it is driven a lot by TCG, A lot
of Pokemons submitted, for sure, But in terms of sports,
he's number one, far and away. And I saw it
firsthand at the start of the year. I was lucky
enough to take my family to uh Seoul for the
oh putting series in Korea between the Padres and Dodgers,
and I was shocked at how many Japanese fans were
in attendance, and there was a guy outside rested up
like O Tommy and uh just signs you know, Otani
and his dog pictures of They are crazy for him
not to do that. But it's also really interesting how
we started the year and how where we're at right now.
And what I mean by that day is he had
that gambling scandal starting the season. We didn't know if
he even base ball again for a hot minute, and
it caused some of his collectibles to I wouldn't say plummet,
but they dropped a bit for a while there, and
some smart people, uh probably probably made some good moves there,
good investments. But uh, it's it's pretty wild to see
how his name was a little tarnished to start the
season and now he isn't just elevated as the best
player in the league, He's seen by many as the
best player of all time. So it's, uh, it's pretty
crazy that the roller coaster ride his his season has
taken right.
Speaker 1: And now we even have a lawsuit with with people
fighting over the ball, so you know, showing I mean
what this has come to, you know, and I don't
know if it'll hold up but have you seen the
video of it yet?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I you know, I think there was something
similar to this with the McGuire home run chase. Uh.
And I don't think they won, you know, possession is
and uh, it doesn't really well but for their their
chances to uh to get it. But I guess your thoughts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I I think in the previous one
they judge made them split the money or something like that.
I saw the video. I don't think the eighteen year
old had the ball, I think, Yeah, I think I've
chased foul balls before. It's a it's a little bit
it's a little bit rough at the bottom of the scrum.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you know, if you're going to dive on cement
and over metal chairs and you come away with it,
and then even if I don't, you know like that,
the younger kid got beat for it. You know what
was the comment Bob put on here? Kids learned that
life ain't fair at the ballpark. So there's a lot
of meanings to that. Interesting comments to your point, As
long as something like gambling doesn't derail his career a
ka Conseko and others with steroids, you know, will it
follow him? Around, I think is the big thing. If
it never comes up again, then it might be people
who forgot that Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays got suspended
at one point for for being in casinos.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I it's such an interesting deal. You know. I
think that Padres had a player that was banned last year.
It was like a tertiary player. But it happens like there,
they investigate their the MLB seems to take it seriously,
but on on a player of Sho Hayes caliber, it's uh,
It's it's interesting for sure.
Speaker 1: Well, there was always the rumors about uh and I
don't know how much you can say with Michael Jordan
and and his off the off the court proclivities uh
and uh and and and why he may or may
not have played baseball. One of my favorite all time
rumors was that that's how the NBA got rid of
him for a year, or was he went to play baseball.
So nothing like a good story getting in those of facts.
Speaker 2: You know. It's it's hard too because athletes, especially Jordan's
is joke. They're just so competitive. And one of my
favorite collectibles I own is uh Jordan's signed Joker card
and where did this come from. Well, he was playing
golf with Rolly Fingers and a couple other players and
it started raining, so they came inside and started playing poker.
Because you know, if Jordan could can't beat you on
the golf course, he's going to beat you at the
poker table. And uh, Raleigh is a pretty sharp guy.
So Michael asked him for something, and Raley took the
two jokers out of the deck and said, yeah, I'll
do that. Just give it, Just give me two signatures.
So I've got one of those jokers. And it's funny
that it ties to that, that poker game that one
day and a cold, rainy day at a golf course.
So Jordan definitely loves that. But I think any player
who's competitive likes that. You know, you look at Pete Rose,
so competitive, so fiery, but they like that thrill that
competition off the field too. And it's MLB just is
pretty hardcore on their rules, and I don't I don't
blame them.
Speaker 1: Mike Petty says that that after he bought some kids
for a ball, he did buy them new drinks, but
he left with the ball. All's fair and war in baseball.
Speaker 2: You take care of the kids. That's where he brings
some trading cards. Give him some cards, You're good to go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Coonter says, what would Mays have done if
he didn't have to play in the field and not
worry about pitchers throwing at him? I guess that's a
comparison to a Tami. Yeah. Could he have been a
fifty to fifty guy. I would say that with the
new rules in the new bases, probably, And I think
we have to acknowledge that for Atani.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean just everything. It's so hard talking
about generation against generation. I mean, what would Willie Mays
have been if he would have had the training regimens
and the nutrition and things along those lines that we
have today, every every player would have been better. So it's, uh,
it's hard to say, but it's always a fun discussion,
that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Well, this is stats like this May's wore a hat,
not a batting helmet for fifteen years.
Speaker 2: Crazy, right, Like you wouldn't even think it's possible. But yeah,
I can tell.
Speaker 1: You right now, I do not have the inner fortitude
to stand in there without a helmet.
Speaker 2: That's not gonna Hey, no way.
Speaker 1: Don't forget the larger basis. It's absolutely a true point
on Atani.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, that you know what.
Speaker 2: No one's been talking about that either, and it does help.
Speaker 1: Oh and the limited pickoff moves, I think I think
the limited pickoff move is shoke a big difference, says
Mays also had the wonderful conditions of Candlestick. I mean
it's a very good point. You know, if you would
put May's in the same conditions as Otani or somebody else, well,
you know, you can say that for anybody. But uh,
I think May's, with his skill set, it was probably
the closest to the fifty to fifty. But Ronald Acuna
last year, I was saying earlier, I think we have
to look at forty seventy again with a lot of respect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sho.
Speaker 1: He also has a shot at the triple Crown. I
don't know if we'll get it this year, but I
think for his career he's got a shot any year.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting to see what his workload is like when
you start pitching again. So he's gonna need more days
off obviously, so uh, we'll kind of see how that goes.
But it's such a an anomaly, right, like, it's fun
to watch him unless he's playing your team. Uh, but
uh yeah, it's uh it's it's a special time to
to see an athlete like this. It reminds me a
lot of Tiger and his prime, Mike Tyson and his prime.
You know. It's he's kind of must see TV and
he time me up. It's it's very interesting to watch.
So I'm excited for the playoffs. It'll be really interesting
to see if he does something exciting there and only
elevates his his name more so. But it's it's one
of those things Danny like, how high do you think
show hey collectibles can go? And I think we'll get
a goodometer of that with his baseball. But he is
like the Michael like, there's not a lot of athletes
that are so high and in terms of value and
their their ceiling, but his ceiling just seems to continue
to elevate. It's it's wild. Outside of Jordan, I can't
think of another athlete quite like it.
Speaker 1: I do think that there's a little bit of a
show hey, bubble of enthusiasm and they're selling the ball
at the perfect time, you know, getting it right to auction.
To me was the move. I don't think you're going
to get more after the season or anything else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was really impressive how quickly Golden got
that and uh and started marketing it immediately and and
again that one thing. You could say what you want
about Ken Golden, but he does get eyeballs and uh.
And the news coverage on this so far has been interesting.
But when we're on that second to last day and
the last day when it finally sells, I think it's
just going to be even more massive interest in it.
And again, I think it's good for the entire hobby
where this type of mainstream coverage of our of our
category only benefits us by having more people learn about it,
more people go back and discover cards again or collectibles,
and uh, it just makes it a lot of fun.
I think when there's more people in the in the room,
like yesterday this show was was a little dead and
now you could see it's it is popping down there.
So really cool to see the the hobby continue to
be so healthy in the in the face of you know,
other distractions out there, like you know, coming out of COVID,
people started vacationing again and going places and spending their
money in different ways than they were during the pandemic
on their hobbies. And it's nice to see that the
trading card and collectibles category remains very, very strong.
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, Adam a splendid sports car, says, I love Otani,
but I wish he wasn't playing during a mass produced
era of cars. Does anyone even know what his best
cards are? There's a fair point, Chris, do you do
you do you think in general some players get oversaturated?
Speaker 2: Well, I can tell you from the manufacturing standpoint. When
I was at Upper Deck, we had you could make
more releases. Just because you know, you made twenty releases
last year didn't mean you couldn't make thirty releases the
next year. But what we would always tell the league
and the Players Association is that at Upper Deck, we
each set needed to have a reason to be This
one's for technology collectors, this one's for autograph collectors, this
one's for game US collectors. You know, so you each
one would need to be able to have merit to
stand on its own. And unfortunately, I think if you're
a shop owner in particular, you know probably better than
anyone that that there have been some releases that we
probably could have done without, especially when you have thirty
forty fifty sixty releases of a particular sport each year.
And then you know the fact that I did share
that the hobby is booming like they've got they've got
to make enough product for all those folks, which which
means that you know, there's more produced, there's more people
in the in the hobby. But it bodes well for
sets that are twenty five years old and older, I
would say, where they were made at levels which would
be considered minischool today. So the population on those products
twenty five years ago, we usually say twenty five is
the golden number, but you see print runs that are
are much much, much much less. So, yes, it is
interesting that this is all happening at a time when
there are a lot of trading cards. You can just
look at what his tops now, fifty to fifty card,
how many of those they sold? Hundreds of Yeah, And
it goes to show you that there's a lot of
collectors out there, and they don't mind that. They don't
always mind that there's that there's so many of them.
They just want to have a piece of history, and
that's what trading cards are. About so it's hard to
get mad at that when when people want to collect
them and be a part of what I think is
a really awesome hobby.
Speaker 1: The tops Now concept. When they have one chase card
and hundreds of thousands of base cards, are we almost
getting into a lottery system?
Speaker 2: Danny, I saw a lot of common it says the
show Hayes were arriving and people were kind of crushed
that they I only got bass cards. Well, yeah, they
were hundreds of thousands made, So I would say the experience, Well,
it's great that tops does these chase elements, whether it
be autographed inserts or numbered inserts or different parallels. It's
also creating a bad experience when people's expectations are so
high and they don't land. So the one good thing
I will say about tops Now cards is they great,
really well. I've submitted about probably three hundred in my
time here at PSA, and I think only one's got
a nine, So I will give them kudos. They make
a good, good quality card for that set, so.
Speaker 1: And a good quality protective case clearly.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Somebody had a comment here that I thought was good,
something to the effect of with this many cards being produced,
how can the value go up? And I think it's
sort of a Staggard approach. You know, the high end
pulls cards up, you know, and there's a chain reaction,
and I think natural enthusiasm can drive the lower part
of the market also because you have more people coming
in just to grab an atanic card with this many
being produced, do you think it's sustainable for value to
go up?
Speaker 2: Well, it's tricky. The one thing that I would be
leery of as we're we've been in this utopia now
for a few years for the hobby. Just this this resurgence.
The one thing that could sidecar this, this whole industry
is a labor dispute in the in one of the
major sports. I think it would probably be football that
would would happen first. But I've seen firsthand what it
can do on the manufacturing side. When you sign up,
you still have to pay the leagues and the players
associations and the athletes, and you still I often say,
and UPPERNEX president Jason Masher used to say this a
lot too. The trading card manufacturers are as nimble as
an oil tanker. You know, they can see problems coming,
but it's very hard to veer away from the iceberg
or whatever it may be ahead, and that's a problem.
So while the rookies have been doing a good job
and the stars have been superstars as of late, the
one thing I think would be difficult is if there's
a labor dispute because kind of everything comes to a halt.
People when they see millionaires fighting with billionaires. It's a
bad situation. And we've been blessed that we haven't had
one in a while, but they come up about once
a decade and they're not good for our industry at all.
So as long as the leagues and Players Association can
continue playing nice together, I think we're we're set up
for long term success. But it always comes up sooner
or later, so we'll see how it goes. Well.
Speaker 1: Was that The Godfather where they said every so often
you have to clear the bad air and Joe to
the mattresses, So, uh, you know something like that. Okay.
I'm a big believer and I love the Tops Buyback program,
and I think it's a great thing for for people
to get into their local card shops, but it's based
upon the MLB Awards. Is there anybody other than Aaron
Judge and Shoho Tani. Is this a runaway? I mean
not really Bobby with JR.
Speaker 2: I mean there's a lot of Yeah, there's a lot
of two shary players that are that are great. But yeah,
I think those two guys are the guys right like
it It can't be uh, it can't really be that close.
Like I think saw Young and other other awards might
be more competitive. Rookie of the Year is very competitive,
especially in the NL between schemes and merrill. Uh. But yeah,
we'll kind of see what what happens, and it's always
fun to watch. But yeah, for MVP, I don't I
don't see anyone beating those two.
Speaker 1: I think it's fascinating. The people who stock up as
early as possible on their predictions for the winners and
uh for the buy back try to get as much
credit as possible.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: There there's a there's an incentive program there.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's funny. You know, I often say
I collect uh a lot of entertainment cards as well,
and you know I knew to buy Wolverine uh cards,
you know, uh, Hugh Jackman cards and Ryan Reynolds cards
two years ago because they announced that this was happening,
and Hugh Jackman was going to be in it, and
you knew there would be interest when the movie came out,
So it you can do it a little easier on
the entertainment side. I think it's there's a little more
path to predictability. Daredevil has a new big show coming out,
so now's a good time to buy it before it
it hits. But very similar with the Top Spy Back
program on on baseball, So it'll be interesting to see
if they extend that. I would imagine they would to
NFL and NBA when they take those licenses on, and
even if they extend it to wrestling or or UFC
would be kind of unique or cool. You imagine, you know,
someone's fighting in a UFC match and then next day
you could take your cards and for the winner and
and get get cash back for me. It would be
pretty cool. So, uh, they're they're trying a lot of
unique things at TOPS. I really you know, when when
Michael Eisner bought TOPS, we all believed that he would
bring these dynamic programs to the hobby that would create
more interest in it and elevate the category as a whole,
and it didn't really happen, but we're definitely seeing that
with Michael Rubin. They are between fanatics, Veest, the buybacks,
Tops Rip Nights, there's just the partnership they did with
with Sotheby's. There's just a lot of things that they
are doing that are elevating the category and taking it
to another level. So I'm while it's easy to bash
Tops for this, that or the other are making so
many cards, They're just giving people what they want at
the end of the day, and it's it's kind of
hard to fault them for that. But they've done a
tremendous job of marketing the category, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: You mentioned it. The Holy Grail auction was very cool
if people haven't seen some of the items. And speaking
of that, the are Tani Suiting card super Fracture from
there was a beautiful and gorgeous card. Couter says the
contrived scarcity of serial numbers is not true scarcity. I've
been saying that forever a card is hot until it's
not because there's a new hot chase sell while you
can your Tawny Ball is five hundred thousand and five years.
I agree with a lot of that.
Speaker 2: Chris, Yeah, I mean, if you open up Leaf Pop Century,
you're getting a one on one in every box, but
there's fifty eight different parallels to those one of one,
So is it really, you know, as rare as you think. Yeah,
I think that there's been a maybe a chase to
the bottom with regard to serial numbered cards and how
frequently they fall and just how many are really out there.
So I agree with that as well.
Speaker 1: I think there's a correlation between that and the one
on one prices and the bounties that seem to be
going up. I think that's the reverse is people now
you know, you can't fake a one on one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the bounties are really interesting. You know, you have
different dealers offering these bounties. Grand Slam, Nathan Burns a
Grand Slam and Gianna's even getting in on that. Uh
that Triple Olympics auto has been. It's you know, it
gives us something to talk about. It's fun, but it's
exciting that there is that level of interest in some
of these cards. So it's it's fun to see the
thrill when people can score one of those bounties. I
was just talking with Adam Martin from David Adams. He's
purchased a lot of these bounty cards, uh, and I said,
you know, it's about the time we probably get those
in a p s A slab. He's like, hey, you're
probably right, right, so we're talking to him about that
right now. But yeah, it's it's uh that that portion
of the business is really interesting, and it's it's fun
to see how in the Star Wars community on Facebook,
there's a lot of groups where they'll do a bounty
hunt and you basically bid in real time on the
on the image shown that's coined, which is kind of
fun too. So uh, it's it's really interesting how collectors
will take things off eBay or off auction sides uh
and kind of do it their own way in order
to save on those those fees that are tied to that.
But I always feel like you're gonna if you have
a really special collectible, you're going to realize the best
from it through going through an auction house or or
going through uh through eBay. So they just have so
many more eyes, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Mookie says Jaba has a bounty for Han Solo.
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: See. Ballets were even popular a long long time ago
in a.
Speaker 1: Galaxy the pun. The puns aren't stopping bounty hunt in
a Star Wars group, So.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, we're all you guys, just.
Speaker 1: The group his dad jokes and Star Wars. I love it, Okay.
I think we got to touch on some some I
think two. I think two interesting stories. The Chicago White
Sox set the record for worst record ever and the
Oakland A's are no longer the Oakland As. I think
both of these. I think both of these are interesting.
The White Sox, I mean, what do you say it's
a lottery now that they're not even guaranteed the first pick,
and it just seems like everything's gone wrong in that
organization for a while now.
Speaker 2: It's sad to see because that that collecting community is
so great, you know. I think if you're in Chicago,
three fourths of people collect Cubs over White Sox. But
there's still have been some names the works and does
passionate fans for that team. So yeah, it's it's it's
hard to watch, it's hard to see, but you know,
if you look at some of the successful clubs, that
chemistry is a real thing, you know, and when teams,
you know, when you genuinely like the people that you're
playing alongside, you make plays that you wouldn't normally make.
You you do think, so I think, you know, at
the end of the day, they're a professional baseball club,
you know, like there, It's not like there's been massive
expansion in MLB that's watered down the product. It's just
I think a situation where, uh, maybe some people. You
got to change people out here and there, uh to
find the right chemistry that works for the team. So
uh and then okay is I I uh, I just
think it's going to be interesting in Sacramento in particular
because it gets really hot up there, playing on on turf,
so that's going to be heating up all day. So
I know they're going to try to play a lot
of the games in the evening. But yeah, it'll be
a wild experience, kind of like when the Chargers played
in that soccer stadium for a year and it just
felt really weird, but hey, you get a different fan experience.
So I know, I'm gonna try to go to one
of those games. I think it'll be something to see
and say, back in my day I saw the Oaks
playing Sacramento. You know, there's Las Vegas Aydes so, well,
we'll see how it all shakes out, but it'll be
interesting to watch.
Speaker 1: I mean, during the COVID year, people forget the Blue
Jays played in a Triple A park.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so stuff has happened before. I just think
it's it's sad for the history of the A's. I
know that they came from Kansas City, but they've they've
been such a so synonymous with Oakland over the years
and the great teams in the seventies. Charlie Finley and
I put in the chat, you know, best players ever
for the White Sox in the A's just curious and
Bob says Frank Thomas and Catfish Hunter uh, Stuke says,
Joe Jackson and Jimmy Fox hard to argue with them. Yeah,
there's Richie Jackson.
Speaker 2: You know, he was came other places, but he started
in Oakland. So his documentary was really interesting. I think
it was on Amazon, Reggie Jackson's. But he talked a
lot about uh, you know, those early Oakland teams and
they were good like they were, they hustled. So yeah,
it's definitely worth watching if you haven't seen it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's got a little bit of a car collection
as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like cards, some people like cars.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, exactly all right, And just to finish
it up, uh, some new products came out from a
general standpoint because we were talking about players associations. How
do you feel about logo versus non logos?
Speaker 2: I hate non logo. I really don't like it, but
but I still have some like I just bought a
Penini card of Dylan Cease because the patches were just
so dang cool that and the price was was really low,
So yeah, I think there are some bargains you could
find for it, but it's hard. It just feels weird.
It feels inferior, and especially if you're buying a premium product,
it's it's right as your pack opening experience happens. Unless
it's done well, it the experience kind of sucks. So
it's interesting to see what Tops is doing with that
regard with some of the football and basketball releases they've had.
But yeah, I don't like it. I know collectors don't
like it. I'm sure you probably don't like it either.
Speaker 1: I've never liked Pajah mccards or whatever you want to
call them, until I actually thought the Tops this year
was one of the better ones I've seen in some time.
It's still not my first choice. I still want the logo,
but if you look at the Joe Montana Walter Payton Rookies,
I mean, you know, there was different reasons, but they
don't have full licensing on there. So I'm not totally
opposed to the idea. However, if I'm purchasing a card
and I'm choosing between two cards, I'm buying the logo
one hundred out of one hundred times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say in terms of pack opening experience,
I really enjoy Allen and Ginter and Goodwin Champions. I
think both those products are a lot of fun. And yeah,
a lot of the athletes are in their street clothes,
but you know, when you're getting Michael Jordan in Tiger Woods,
Ken Griffey Junior, there's chances that precious metal gems, or
when you're opening up Ballan and Ginter and you're just
pulling weird stuff like it is a fun experience to
open those products that are player licensed, not league licensed.
But one of my favorite sets we ever did at
Upper Deck, I think it was about two thousand. It
was called Superstars and it was a licensed product that
featured different leagues, and I don't know how we negotiated
them doing it. I think we were only able to
do it one year. Baseball had some rules where I
think it had to be fifty percent of the set
had to be baseball, and other leagues didn't love that.
So you're doing all this back and forth. But to
feature like game used inserts or signed inserts where all
the players are from the same city was really cool.
And you have a baseball player with a basketball player
with a hockey player in their league uniforms was really special.
So sometimes you can catch lightning in a bottle like
that and make a set like that, but it's it's very,
very difficult to pull off with players associations. However, I
will say I would fully expect that TOPS would do
more of this as they as they take control of
more licenses, even potentially, you know, they they recently secured
the Marvel license, potentially merging Marvel and Sports like we
had seen in some early days, with athletes illustrated and
things along those lines. It could be really compelling and unique.
You know, there's been the start of sketch cards in
the sports cards market. But they could really take that
to another level by marrying Star Wars and an athlete
or you know, you see it already with you know,
one Solo and at bobble Heads instead of one Soto
for Star Wars Nights and things like that. So these
things are already starting to happen.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Star Wars Nights are one of my favorite nights to
go to the ballpark with my kids because you know,
there's people in costume. It's so fun and unique. It's
just a different vibe. But I would absolutely expect to
see that extended to the collectible's market, which you could
make for some really compelling releases that again get more
mainstream attention and more mainstream news, which draws more people
to the category. So when Top says they want to
ten x the hobby, the thought of that to me
as a collector is really scary because I kind of
like the hobby as it is right now. But the
thought of you know, there being so many more people
in the industry is actually a good thing because it
makes all of our collections more valuable if more people
are aren't going after them and are interested in the category.
So it's hard to be mad at it. It's definitely
better than manufacturers who who sit on their laurels and
don't don't take action to grow. So it's one of
those weird things where it's hard to be mad at,
but it's it's tough because you like it the way
it is.
Speaker 1: You know, you talked about Alan Ginter and Goodwin Champions.
I pulled a watermelon last year and you know that
that I love those sets. But if those became Marvel
characters instead.
Speaker 2: Of water melons, imagine if the egg, yeah, I mean
egg actually sells pretty well.
Speaker 1: Does the egg do well? But that's hilarious. Abel says,
Tops introduces all these cool sets and we'll be selling
them at eight thousand bucks. I will say price affordability
is something that's going to be very important in the
hobby moving forward. I think that, uh, that's something that
fanatics is going to have to look at overall moving forward.
Speaker 2: Is price of especially these direct pricing. You know, you're
being offered new boxes, which you know, I'd prefer the
experience happens at a hobby shop. But Tops wants to
get their cut, which makes sense because they're spending a
lot of money. Now it's not cheap bringing Tom Brady
to every event you do all year. But but yeah,
they're the prices are pretty jaw dropping in many cases
on products that you know, last year were one hundred
and fifty bucks in this year three hundred or you know,
and the content's not changing that much, you know, so
it's like, oh, what are we doing? We know they're
not making less, So it's it's a tricky one for sure.
Speaker 1: Bob said, Son, I'm sorry. Bob says, sorry, Son, you'll
have to go to community college tops boxes two semesters
of the university. Mike Patty says, did you steal the
college fund? Yes? I did? What of it? Bob says,
kids want their old men to be happy. That's what
I say. You know what it's it's I know it's
tongue in cheek, but there's a real issue out there.
People want to collect and people have to choose where
their disposable income goes. And I think, you know, at
some point the disposable income is more than a plane ticket.
Over and over, it does become hard to get kids
in and we get a quick appearance from Brody. What's
going on?
Speaker 2: Awesome? Speaking of the kids, Well.
Speaker 3: What's up guys, epilepsy hasn't been great this morning, but
it's all good. Let's talk some cardsh.
Speaker 2: We got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good to see you buddy as well. I want
you to touch on what you put in the chat
and your thoughts on Stroud and the National Treasures.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so CJ Stroud, Bryce you on. I'm not sure
if will Love Us made it as well, but they
have sticker autos, I believe on the checklist, and I
saw some posts that people were kind of theorizing maybe
they were going to save some stickers that they had
from for the higher end products, and they're on the checklist,
and I think this is something interesting when fanatics and
tops own the rights to Stroud and John's autograph rights
that they're in National treaders, like this could be a
potential lawsuit situation.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Frank Sis Brody, hope you have a better day.
Great to see you, appreciate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's great to see you too. It's interesting. I
will say that there's times when manufacturers will work together.
You know, we'll give you fifty of this athlete's autograph
for two hundred and fifty of this athlete's autograph, so
we can at least have a little content, but it
doesn't seem to me that Thompson Pindia are wreaking together
very nicely. So yeah, well we'll see what happens there,
because you know, at any event, if those athletes did
public signings, you can put a sheet of lebels in
front of them pad and could potentially happen. So, uh,
we'll see. It'll be uh, it'll be a wild one
for sure, to see what happens when those hits.
Speaker 1: And then, Bertie, what was the other topic you wanted
to bring on?
Speaker 3: Oh, twenty twenty four Luminants football came out and they
introduced future signatures NIL. So they have some people on
college like arch Manning, Dylan Royola, Jackson Dark who's the
favorite for Heisman. So it's interesting, Well, Penny try to
do some nil deals going forward for sets. And it's
kind of the other thought I had was I think
the rookies are in their college uniforms. I could be
off on that, but at least I thought it was
a product that was like that. But is it kind
of weird that they're putting people that are in college
into an NFL product.
Speaker 1: Well, that's a great question, because they don't do it
in baseball, right, they do minor leagues, you know, in
bowman of course, but you know, I can't think of
another sport basketball they don't do it, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because they mean they made that G League set
last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think right now, they're trying to establish their
football releases as legitimate and the best way to do
that is include the first signed cards of any player.
Right Football and basketball are tremendously driven by rookie content,
and to have some XRC type of content in there
and have it be the first sign cards in particular
for some of these athletes is something that every manufacturer
is trying to do right now. One of the issues
I think that manufacturers are having is agents are having
a field day with this nil situation. So just some
of the asks in terms of pricing are a bit crazy.
You know. You you can hear some of the deals
that you know, people are paying, you know, these kids,
and are they getting the return on the investment for it?
Probably not, you know. And with the transfer portal, if
you have players moving every season, it's hard for that
college football fan to be fully invested in them unless
they're just speculating and investing in their future like a commodity.
So I think they every manufacturer has to include ANIL now,
but how how low do they go? Do we start
having you know, high school players or things along those lines.
It'll be kind of interesting to see. But if Lebron
James came out, you know, if he was thirteen today,
they would someone would find a way to make an
autograph trading card of him and included a trading card product.
Because everyone knew of Lebron when he was thirteen, so
there would have been full high school products, I'm sure,
and they would have found a way to get him
into everything. But that just shows you what a different demographic,
a different lens that the hobby looks through now that
it did five, ten, twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: Well, and Barty, my thought is it's almost like prospecting,
which we haven't really had in football. I mean, you
can buy rookie quarterbacks, but this is you know, this
is prospecting times one hundred. Arch Manning has yet to
play a conference game, right to start a conference game.
So the fact that you know, I mean, he may
be great, but we don't know. And you look what
happened to Bryce Young also, you know, is he ever
going to turn into what they thought. Mike Petty makes
the comment that CJ. Stroud is middle of the pack
quarterback this year and it's a lot of money for
his card. So I think it's interesting to bring prospecting
aspect into the NFL, but as we know, you know,
it's a lot more risk and the quarterback prices are
are ridiculous. Abel says twenty thirty tops Preschool, Alan Gunter Chrome.
Speaker 3: Yes, there you see some of these guys that are
in the Panini USA Stars and Stripes. You get like
an auto of like a thirteen fourteen year old. There's
somebody that's my age, and I'll be like, what the
heck man, you're trying to steal my thunder?
Speaker 1: Well, was it Bobby Wood whose only autograph was Stars
and Stripes? So there was somebody and I might have
the wrong player. But if somebody who starts, yeah it
was their only autograph and that that blows me away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it'll be interesting.
Speaker 2: I loved when Nupper Deck had the USA Baseball sets.
We had a lot of fun with with inscriptions, and
there's when players are younger, you can usually get him
to do more, whether it be inscriptions or or provide
different memorabilia, every things along those lines. So that is
a fun aspect of those those prospect type sets, but
unfortunately you got to wait a while to see if
those players even pan out. So it's one of those
things where you open it one day you know there's
like one superstar in there, and then you put it
away for three or four years and go back through
and oh my gosh, I got this guy. I got
that guy. So those that's why some of those baseball
set you're up on, you you get to have almost
a secondary pack open opening experience after you put them
away for a little bit and the players develop and
start hitting the field.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one hundred percent true because I think I
bought a box in twenty seventeen of the Stars and Stripes,
and I had a Royce Lewis auto and like last
year is when he finally started to take off, and
this year he had another good year, So it's a
pretty good card.
Speaker 1: Now he's got to stay all yeah in the world.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and then you've got situations who goes out and
gets sent down and his prices, you know, go like
a roller coaster.
Speaker 1: But I like prospecting Mad City Bruce has way to
buy or invest for at least five years in NFL
quarterbacks unless you love flush. Yeah, I mean you're gonna
pay more, but your your hit rate is going to
be so much happy. Uh, you know, so so much better.
Uh what should I do with my chase allenment?
Speaker 2: Well, I'm I'm out here in uh in Nashville seeing
a lot of people spending a lot of money on
will Levis rookies, and Titans haven't had the best year
so far. So is he the guy? You know, like
you're right you football? In basketball, everyone goes all in
on some of these these players like Victor wibin Yama
being the twenty fourth most graded athlete in ps A
history is a little frightening considering meds or you know, so,
uh we talked about overproduction or things along those lines before,
but uh, people jump all in on his rookies, and it's, uh,
it's it's an interesting prospect because if they turn out
to be Greg Oden or Zion Williamson still okay players,
Uh there having get to that, So it's it's it's scary.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I totally agree, and well, yeah, one of these
guys could tear their a c L They could never
be the same.
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean Anthony Richardson, I don't think anybody knows
what he's going to turn into. I mean he flashed
last year and then you know he's having.
Speaker 2: I won't collect him just because of the size of
his signature. He's got a signature that three be fun.
It's the most annoying thing in the world.
Speaker 3: Fill the page, play a joke on us. He just
keeps making it smaller.
Speaker 1: That's really funny, Mike Petty laughing, laughing at The twenty
fourth highest graded player is women Yama another nickname guy
like like Zion. Yeah, I mean, you know some of
those guys, they just they almost go viral with their
cards where everybody's grading every base card and everything else.
So all right, well we're almost on the home stretch here, Chris,
what are you hoping to get done at the show
this weekend? Submissions? Answer? Take care of problems, all your normal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's really fun going, Statesmen going, so
you can see where we're going to be at next
at p S a card dot com show, doing a
lot of in store event and the reason why people
just don't putting their cards in the mail and also
just have a lot of questions about all the different
services offer to check you. So holding people into the process,
if you can get someone through the grading process once,
it's very easy for them going forward. So we're investing
a lot in getting out in front of collectors and
trying to help them navigate the grading landscape. Because, as
we talked about earlier, having your collection slabbed in particular
for insurance helps a ton because they know what condition
it was in, what grade it's in, and there's comps
on what that item is. There's replacement values for those
types of things if you do ever suffer a loss.
So it's been great to see. I just love seeing people.
You know, they'll actually try to tip me sometimes, but
it's not to get a good grade. It's because they're
so happy that they finally have someone that's going to
walk them through the process and help them get their
first cards credit. So we love that. And I know
it can be intimidating walking up to a grating company
sometimes at a show, but we have some of the
friendliest staff you'll ever meet. So definitely, if you see
PSA at a show or a shop stop, I say hi.
And if you've got questions, We've got answers, so happy
to help with any of that.
Speaker 1: Awesome. And Bertie, are you opening anything new or looking
forward to anything.
Speaker 3: I just did find some new Prism we Blasters Crusade
Baseball which I'm going to upload that. That was a
fun video, cool product. And tonight I'll be watching some
college football Illinois, Penn State take the spread for Illinois
it's way too high, and gold Bulldogs take down the tide.
Speaker 1: You know what, I'm not a Penn State fan, so
I'm rotting with you.
Speaker 2: Bertie.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, guys, I really appreciated getting through episode three eighteen today.
It was a lot of fun. Thank you to the
chat room as always fantastic and we I'm not sure
who's on next week, but it'll be three new faces
and every other every week on Benchclar Media and then
releasing follow later in the week on Hobby Hotline on
all of the social media there, Chris Brodie, Danny, We're out.
Speaker 2: Thanks CAUs