Speaker 1: It's seven oh six. If it's about KRC detalk station.
Speaker 1: Very happy Tuesday to you back in studio where we're
Speaker 1: liking to be. Bring him accoun from the Hudson Institute,
Speaker 1: where he is Senior Fellow and Director of Initiative on
Speaker 1: American Energy Security. He is also the well host of
Speaker 1: the podcast Charged Conversations, which are not surprising given the name,
Speaker 1: is also about energy policy, and he was just recently
Speaker 1: in Washington, d C. Where he's going back to provide
Speaker 1: testimony h and a hearing on powering America's future unleasing
Speaker 1: American energy. Brigham Accowan, it's always a pleasure to have
Speaker 1: you in the studio, and you can find Hudson Institute
Speaker 1: online at Hudson dot org.
Speaker 2: So he just told me off air you were a
Speaker 2: helicopter pilot. Yeah, fixed wing and rotary wang. Things started
Speaker 2: and you fly it.
Speaker 1: And flew out of DC just shortly before the collision.
Speaker 2: Oh I did, very sad. I've actually flown that exact
Speaker 2: same route in a Navy H sixty we call them seahawks,
Speaker 2: Army calls in black hawks. Same same That's very congested airspace.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I left DC about thirty forty five minutes
Speaker 2: before that horrible crash, you know, my lord different American
Speaker 2: CRJ and learned about it upon landing back here in
Speaker 2: Cincinnati last week.
Speaker 1: Terrible kind of I bet you had a strange feeling
Speaker 1: fall over you when you realize how close you were
Speaker 1: to you know, maybe having been impacted by it, or
Speaker 1: heaven forbid, having been in the airplane that got run
Speaker 1: into by the helicopter. Yeah, it's really tragic.
Speaker 2: And you know, Brian, through twenty plus years of military flying,
Speaker 2: I've come close a couple of times in different ways.
Speaker 2: You know, it's this big sky, little airplane theory. You know,
Speaker 2: they come together despite all this airspace. It's like attractive magnets.
Speaker 2: D C is one of the most congested airspaces around
Speaker 2: the country, and at Washington Reagan International Airport, they keep
Speaker 2: expanding it more and more flights because every congressman wants
Speaker 2: a direct flight home. Frankly, there are too many airplanes
Speaker 2: coming in and out of there. The FAA is underfunded,
Speaker 2: the air traffic controllers overworked. Were three thousand plus short
Speaker 2: of those folks.
Speaker 1: That's one of the things that really really concerned me
Speaker 1: to find out after the accident, how understaffed we are
Speaker 1: with the air traffic controllers. Yeah, we really are.
Speaker 2: And it dates back to two twenty twenty and COVID
Speaker 2: and then they just didn't ramp back up. And attrition
Speaker 2: is pretty high depending on what sector you're working. New
Speaker 2: York area has a sixty percent wash out rate within
Speaker 2: three years. And some of it's frankly cultural, it's intentional. Really, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, the unions run the contracts. By the way,
Speaker 2: they just extended their collect bargaining agreement for five years
Speaker 2: right before Biden left office. You know, many good working,
Speaker 2: hard working controllers. Maybe some of them are listening to
Speaker 2: the program. But there are a couple places around the
Speaker 2: country where there are problems and they have sick outs.
Speaker 2: They hey, Brian, you call out sick, I'll take your shift,
Speaker 2: I'll get over time and then I'll reciprocate later. And
Speaker 2: you bring too many new controllers in and they don't
Speaker 2: last very long. So we got to fix these things.
Speaker 2: And the infrastructure it's old, it's broken down. We have
Speaker 2: flooding in the basements of some of these places. We
Speaker 2: have communications going down. The notice to airman went down
Speaker 2: the other day. That caused a big problem. Of course,
Speaker 2: the Biden administration renamed that to some gender neutral term
Speaker 2: I can't remember, but expect that to come back.
Speaker 1: Well that's you know, I always expressed my disdain generally
Speaker 1: for flying, just for a multitude of reasons, none of
Speaker 1: which ever really had anything to do with safety. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like I didn't want to get on an airplane
Speaker 1: because I was worried about a terrorist, But I just
Speaker 1: didn't like being on an airplane because you're stuck in there.
Speaker 1: You got to get there a couple hours advance, and
Speaker 1: with the luggage issues and the body cavity search from
Speaker 1: the TSA and you know, all that stuff, it's just
Speaker 1: makes flying a truly unenjoyable experience for me. But now
Speaker 1: with all this talk and all the revelations that have
Speaker 1: shown up after this horrific collision, now I feel I'm
Speaker 1: concerned for my safety that coupled with doors flying off
Speaker 1: of Boeing aircraft.
Speaker 2: You know, I think and Sean Dusky, the Secretary of Transportation,
Speaker 2: who I know and I've had the opportunity to work with,
Speaker 2: is a great person. And you know, he just put
Speaker 2: out an email to the DOT team, I think two
Speaker 2: days ago it said, you know, hey, folks, this is tragic.
Speaker 2: Here's the deal. If everything is a priority, nothing's a priority.
Speaker 2: We're a safety organization. We're not an environmental organization. We're
Speaker 2: not a DEI organization.
Speaker 1: It's like the military. Same thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to get back to our core mission. And if
Speaker 2: you are competent, if you are trainable, if you are smart,
Speaker 2: we want you to work here. But stop the madness
Speaker 2: and we're gonna stop celebrating every you know thing that
Speaker 2: comes up every different week and concentrate on safety and
Speaker 2: moving people around the country. We have to do both
Speaker 2: of those two things, move people safely period.
Speaker 1: Now, I would argue, or at least I have the impression,
Speaker 1: given the that safety and people's lives are at stake
Speaker 1: when you're doing your job as an air traffic controller,
Speaker 1: that that will be a high stress job. Yeah, is it?
Speaker 1: I mean these it perceived by most people. Do they
Speaker 1: feel high stress? Is that one of the reasons perhaps
Speaker 1: for the burnout rate or is there something more nefarious
Speaker 1: as you seem to suggest earlier. Well, I think you know,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of different things. There are.
Speaker 2: There's a culture there somewhat brought on by the high
Speaker 2: stress that people face. So it really depends on where
Speaker 2: you are, right, if you're working New York Center or
Speaker 2: you know, approach that's very different from you know, hanging
Speaker 2: out at a county airport in India.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, yeah, but.
Speaker 2: You know, we have to change the way we're doing business.
Speaker 2: We still have floppy drives. And I don't mean the
Speaker 2: I don't mean the five and a quarter you know,
Speaker 2: hard drives. I mean the big floppy drives that look
Speaker 2: like records. They still have those for some of the
Speaker 2: computer systems. It is are you kidding me? No, that's
Speaker 2: first generation kind of floppy drive, it really is. And
Speaker 2: so when the system goes down, you know how we
Speaker 2: can be the most technologically advanced country in the world
Speaker 2: and yet some not all, but some of our systems
Speaker 2: are so antiquated. And this administration is going to address that.
Speaker 2: They're going to fix this because it's unacceptable.
Speaker 1: It is what is it run on? MS dosh?
Speaker 2: I want to say, it's it's either Cobra or Cobolt
Speaker 2: or one of those things that you know from forty
Speaker 2: years ago.
Speaker 1: Do you people even still know how to program? At
Speaker 1: work on those and those legacy systems. Quite often you
Speaker 1: lose the skill sets necessary to even you know band
Speaker 1: Aid fix them if they require it.
Speaker 2: You do and when anybody who works it or as
Speaker 2: an executive a company will tell you too. Once you
Speaker 2: have a legacy system that can't be patched, you have
Speaker 2: a wide open door to cybercrimins and everything else.
Speaker 1: Hadder Dave had Ter talks about that every week. It's
Speaker 1: like when they phased out Microsoft XL, they are no
Speaker 1: longer going to be offering security patches. Nefarious characters out
Speaker 1: there in the world know that idiots still are using
Speaker 1: that old operating system. They figure out all kinds of
Speaker 1: holes that still exist in them because they're not being patched.
Speaker 1: Welcome to a cyber attack.
Speaker 2: Yes, So you know there's a lot to be done
Speaker 2: across the board, and that's just one part of government. Also,
Speaker 2: you know it usually takes years for the NTSB and
Speaker 2: others to come up with what happened. We've been promised
Speaker 2: answers in thirty days, so we'll see you know we will.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for your service to our country. I
Speaker 1: learned something about you every time you come on the
Speaker 1: program Copter Pilot for the Navy and again Charge Conversations.
Speaker 1: You can find his podcast regularly before we and I
Speaker 1: want to we'll do another break coming up here. We
Speaker 1: only have a minute left, So I wanted to ask
Speaker 1: you because he is also in addition to everything else
Speaker 1: he does, he's a professor at Miami University, which we
Speaker 1: brought up. And you'll be teaching graduate level energy policy
Speaker 1: at Miami University this coming up.
Speaker 2: Yes, we just started last week. It's a grad and
Speaker 2: senior energy policy capstone. I'm really excited to be teaching
Speaker 2: it again. And the class maxed out again, which I
Speaker 2: guess is.
Speaker 1: A good thing.
Speaker 2: Maybe it just means it's a good thing. Maybe it
Speaker 2: just means I'm an easy greater Brian. I don't know,
Speaker 2: we'll see.
Speaker 1: I don't think that's probably the case. I think you
Speaker 1: have the level of you have an expectation for a
Speaker 1: level of excellence, and there's some superior students at Miami University,
Speaker 1: and most notably when you get to the graduate level,
Speaker 1: and of course like that, you're surrounded by some intelligent
Speaker 1: kids or young people or well compared to me anyway.
Speaker 1: But before we break here, I wanted you to repeat
Speaker 1: for my listeners what you have encountered since the November
Speaker 1: election during your teaching at Miami University.
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's amazing how many students come out, and I
Speaker 2: realized that many more of them are conservatives. And look
Speaker 2: from my perspective, and I tell all of the students, says,
Speaker 2: I don't really care what you believe in This class
Speaker 2: is about grading how you can articulate it, and how
Speaker 2: you can back up your argument. Right, you want to
Speaker 2: be left, great, be left, You want to be right,
Speaker 2: be right. But I've seen more and more people come
Speaker 2: out and say, you know, hey, you know this green
Speaker 2: energy thing doesn't work, and that's a new one.
Speaker 1: Well, and it's not that they weren't in the classroom before.
Speaker 1: It's just that they didn't want to get shouted down
Speaker 1: by a bunch of Greta thunbergs. I mean, the messaging
Speaker 1: has always been there. And I talked about this earlier.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the polling reflected that maybe
Speaker 1: Trump wasn't going to do quite as good as he
Speaker 1: ultimately did against Kamala Harris. Because you know, somebody calls
Speaker 1: me up and asks me a questions I'm not going
Speaker 1: to answer. I'm say now, I don't want to participate
Speaker 1: and hang out. Many people lied and said they didn't
Speaker 1: like Trump and actually did, but there were a lot
Speaker 1: of pro Trump supporters out in the world who just
Speaker 1: kept their mouths shuts for fear of getting you know,
Speaker 1: demon eyes, lambasted or otherwise yelled at by the crazies
Speaker 1: and social media. Amen. They're out there, and apparently they're
Speaker 1: in college as well. Mart Briga, mcdaland from Hudson Institute.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about his testimony. He's off the DC the
Speaker 1: talk energy policy. We'll talk. We'll learn from him what
Speaker 1: the subject matter will be, in which direction he thinks
Speaker 1: we should go after I mentioned affordable imaging, because well,
Speaker 1: hospital imaging departments are really, really, really expensive. Can I
Speaker 1: emphasize that enough? I mean, the idea of paying five
Speaker 1: thousand dollars for a CT scan, it's just unconsortable to
Speaker 1: me when I know you can go to Affordable Imaging
Speaker 1: Services and get a CT scan for four hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty bucks. Yeah, same kind of CT scan equipment, same
Speaker 1: thing with the MRI, the echo cardiogram, ultrasounds, all of
Speaker 1: it is similar or operable to the hospital imaging equipment.
Speaker 1: Every low price for the images at Affordable Imaging comes
Speaker 1: with the board Certified Radiologists report, which you and your
Speaker 1: physician will both get within forty eight hours. I've already
Speaker 1: had scans there. I've got another one scheduled in April
Speaker 1: from an xCT scan to see which direction my cancer
Speaker 1: is going. And I'll keep my fingers crossed. But the
Speaker 1: last time I was there, my doctor had no issue
Speaker 1: with the image or the report, just had a problem
Speaker 1: with the outcome. That's all, but not five thousand dollars
Speaker 1: four point fifty and if you get a contrast six hundred.
Speaker 1: The MRI is most expensive. When you can get there
Speaker 1: with a contrast, it's still only six hundred and forty
Speaker 1: five bucks and you could be out of pocket thirty
Speaker 1: five hundred maybe four thousand at the hospital. So you
Speaker 1: have a choice. Don't go to the hospital imaging department.
Speaker 1: Go to affordable imaging services and save heap loads of money,
Speaker 1: especially folks that don't have insurance. It's not that you
Speaker 1: can avoid not and not get the scan. These things
Speaker 1: can be life saving five three seven five three eight
Speaker 1: thousand five one three seven five three eight thousand. To
Speaker 1: learn more, go to Affordable Medimaging dot com.
Speaker 2: This is fifty five KRC and iHeartRadio station.
Speaker 1: Pendings do to migraine can stop you in your jann
Speaker 1: and I says the weather is as follow. He's got
Speaker 1: cloudy sky today with higher forty six over an angle
Speaker 1: of thirty with more clouds overcash showers moving into the
Speaker 1: afternoon tomorrow with high thirty seven, thirty six overnight with
Speaker 1: rain and maybe some storms. Fifty five for Thursdays, high
Speaker 1: with morning showers. Right now thirty nine degrees. In time
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Speaker 3: crews continue to work with a couple of recks sethbound
Speaker 3: seventy one, the first just below forty eight, starting to
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Speaker 3: seventy five slows through Lachlan SAP two seventy five heavy
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Speaker 1: The talk station sifty five KRCD Talk station Brian Thomas
Speaker 1: with Brigham McCown from the Hudson Institute in Studio Charged
Speaker 1: Conversations his podcast He Knows Energy Policy.
Speaker 2: You can also find him on what is it X?
Speaker 2: Now what's your uh? Yeah, right, it's BA McCown. That's
Speaker 2: BA mcc own.
Speaker 1: B A McCown, Brigham A McCown, hence the name. All Right,
Speaker 1: pivoting over, You're gonna be testifying in Washington, d C.
Speaker 1: In front of which which committee? Subcommittee? What is it?
Speaker 2: It is the House Energy and Commerce Committee, and I'll
Speaker 2: be testifying in front of the subcommittee on Energy.
Speaker 1: All right. Let this will be across the board kind
Speaker 1: of discussion about energy policy.
Speaker 2: Yes, it will be, and I'm kind of looking forward
Speaker 2: to it. We'll be talking about, you know, our current
Speaker 2: energy policy coming out of four years of the Biden administration,
Speaker 2: and then looking at what we expect to see President
Speaker 2: Trump do by way of energy, and what are the
Speaker 2: pros and cons of different approaches to energy.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, my conclusion, and I note from your
Speaker 1: summary page of the notes and things, but I've also
Speaker 1: heard this, next to raw materials and the cost of labor,
Speaker 1: energy the third most expensive cost driver. Now it seems
Speaker 1: to me to be I don't know, necessarily low hanging
Speaker 1: fruit in light of all the opposition to any energy
Speaker 1: policies by the left. But if you really want to
Speaker 1: lower inflation, lower the cost of diesel, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean everything in our country gets shipped by a semi
Speaker 1: tractor trailer truck running on diesel fuel, unless you're on
Speaker 1: a short haul trip in California, in which case you
Speaker 1: have an electric one. But the power from that probably
Speaker 1: is coming from some form of carbon anyway. But you
Speaker 1: could easily remedy some of the price problems that we
Speaker 1: are facing by lowering the cost of shipping, which would
Speaker 1: be lowering the cost of energy related.
Speaker 2: To shipping absolutely. And Trump's plan is to unleash commerce
Speaker 2: across the country, and you do that by having cheap
Speaker 2: energy prices, solid infrastructure, and lower fewer regulations. Because if
Speaker 2: you you know, right, rising tide lifts all boats. We've
Speaker 2: heard that before. And the economy is the driver that
Speaker 2: makes us all have a better quality of life, Brian,
Speaker 2: And energy and the infrastructure and the transportation component to that,
Speaker 2: they're all they're all three sides, three.
Speaker 1: Sides of the same coin. Can you say that doesn't
Speaker 1: make any sense? Three legs to the stool if you
Speaker 1: want to make it sound accurate anyway, I think I
Speaker 1: already got what you were talking about. But you're right
Speaker 1: on regulations. So when I think about, for example, the
Speaker 1: cafe standards, which ultimately forced people to end up driving
Speaker 1: something they don't want and also tremendously drive up the
Speaker 1: cost of you an internal combustion engine, you know, not
Speaker 1: only do you have cafe standards, but you also have
Speaker 1: all these safety standards and mandates and obligations on all
Speaker 1: the bells and whistles you got to put into cars.
Speaker 1: And is there even a single affordable car out in
Speaker 1: the world these days? I mean, I think of folks
Speaker 1: on life's margins, and they want a job or they've
Speaker 1: got a job. There was a woman locally that the
Speaker 1: help squad helped out. She spent three hours a day
Speaker 1: on a bus, yeah, to get back and forth to
Speaker 1: her job. They got her a car, they solved her problems. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of truth to that.
Speaker 2: And inflation inside, right, we spent too much money, We've
Speaker 2: printed too much money, got it exactly. That's a big
Speaker 2: driver of inflation. But another driver for in vehicle inflation
Speaker 2: and insurance inflation are these evs because we're all paying
Speaker 2: even though you're like, I'm not buying an ev well,
Speaker 2: you're still helping subsidize an ev Ford Blue lost over
Speaker 2: a billion dollar last year. You think that four to
Speaker 2: one fifty internal combustion and truck didn't cost you more
Speaker 2: because of that?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, you got to find profit somewhere, and you find
Speaker 1: profit in the products that people demand and buy. And
Speaker 1: there is no profit in those evs there there isn't.
Speaker 2: Right now now, I will say, uh, you know, Tesla's
Speaker 2: come out with revised model threes, and why is the
Speaker 2: price has gone down? They've made them less complicated, They're
Speaker 2: using different battery technology. Yeah, it works around town. You
Speaker 2: want to buy one, Great, you've got a uh, you've
Speaker 2: got a charger at home. Great for the rest of us,
Speaker 2: though the Biden administration pushing this on us, by the way,
Speaker 2: in the Inflation Reduction Act, right well, well named uh
Speaker 2: supposed to put all these chargers out around the country,
Speaker 2: and they've done none of that.
Speaker 1: We've got like eight yes, and there was like five
Speaker 1: billion dollars or something along those lines, and they put
Speaker 1: in the Yeah, they put eight Wow. I you know,
Speaker 1: gosh to a neighborhood near you, sometimes centuries from now.
Speaker 2: So, thank goodness, the previous administration was not very competent
Speaker 2: delivering this. But we have tomate between two and four
Speaker 2: trillion dollars to build out an electrical infrastructure system for
Speaker 2: charging cars. And if we're going to be serious, and
Speaker 2: part of my testimony tomorrow is, look, let's just assume
Speaker 2: everybody agrees that we need to reduce our carbon footprint.
Speaker 2: We don't agree, but let's say let's just assume we do.
Speaker 2: Then the government should be agnostic as to how you
Speaker 2: do that. If you can put a different fuel in
Speaker 2: your regular engine, fine, why do we have to electrify everything?
Speaker 2: Why is the government telling us what we can buy
Speaker 2: and what we can't buy instead of saying, guys, here's
Speaker 2: the problem. We don't know the right answer. But look,
Speaker 2: we've got brilliant people all over the country. We want
Speaker 2: to get from point A to B. You guys in
Speaker 2: the private sector figure it out. That's what the government
Speaker 2: should be doing.
Speaker 1: And agreed, and you know, even maybe a little bit
Speaker 1: further diving down the the rattle that this is, if
Speaker 1: you live in an area that gets most of its
Speaker 1: power primarily generated from you know, natural gas or coal,
Speaker 1: perhaps then you're really not impacting the carbon output into
Speaker 1: the world when you're driving an EV because the power
Speaker 1: that's generating the electricity is coming from a carbon producing source.
Speaker 1: Absolutely correct. Isn't there a physics react sort of a
Speaker 1: physics component of that, Like you're not going to achieve
Speaker 1: greater energy from the plant to the charging station. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be one of those it's a wash type deals.
Speaker 1: It is. It absolutely is.
Speaker 2: And you know, we have actually reduced greenhouse gas emissions
Speaker 2: more than any other country by simply switching from a
Speaker 2: coal fired power plant to a natural gas fired power plant.
Speaker 2: And a lot of people don't understand that whether you
Speaker 2: use I don't know, coal, gas, oil, well, nuclear power,
Speaker 2: we're heating water. We're heating water to then make electricity. Now,
Speaker 2: the natural gas plants we use in some cases gas
Speaker 2: turbine engines that you can click a mouse button and
Speaker 2: throttle it up or back, which is the most efficient.
Speaker 2: And we should be building more of that, and we
Speaker 2: should be building more nuclear. But to your point, for
Speaker 2: all of the coal that Europe and the US has replaced,
Speaker 2: China has more than offset that this year alone. China's
Speaker 2: talking between forty and sixty gigawatts of new coal power.
Speaker 1: So okay, let's continue to cut our throat in the
Speaker 1: face of the Chinese communist parties aspirations. More with Briga McCallan.
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Speaker 1: A minute of channelnine says today we're gonna ploty skys
Speaker 1: going up the forty six over to night low of
Speaker 1: thirty with clouds, overcast, slash clouding tomorrow with showers in
Speaker 1: the afternoon, thirty seven for the high down to thirty
Speaker 1: six overnight with rain and maybe some storms. Showers in
Speaker 1: the morning on Thursday, high at fifty five thirty nine.
Speaker 1: Right now traffic time.
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Speaker 3: Southbound seventy one, they cleared the wreck near King's Mills.
Speaker 3: Still working with the accident on southbound seventy one near
Speaker 3: Western Row. Right hand side traffic starting to get a
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Speaker 3: Miller in Levitton High School Chuck Ingram on fifty five
Speaker 3: KR see the talk station.
Speaker 1: Seven thirty three fifty five KR see the ETHOK station.
Speaker 1: Brian Thomas with energy expert Briga McGown from the U Ensuit.
Speaker 1: He will be testifying in Washington, d C. On energy
Speaker 1: policy tomorrow and obviously ABO above board strategy above board.
Speaker 1: And I just casually mentioned, you know, you always hear
Speaker 1: about gas, hear about coal production, you hear about nuclear production,
Speaker 1: although I'm hoping we'll get some and you can comment
Speaker 1: on that. But the idea of a geothermal you know,
Speaker 1: the Earth is a great heat exchanger, and I've got
Speaker 1: a you know, sort of I guess a mini version
Speaker 1: of a geothermal system. You know, tubes running one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty feet down into the ground and start you're
Speaker 1: starting at fifty five degrees. Then it's not as much
Speaker 1: of an uphill battle to cool the air or warm
Speaker 1: it as the case may be. And the energy bills
Speaker 1: are often very very low by comparison to a traditional system.
Speaker 1: So and I know that if they drill a hole
Speaker 1: deep enough, you know, the Earth's core is molten, and
Speaker 1: I'm not sure you have to go all the way
Speaker 1: down to the Earth's core, but you get to a
Speaker 1: certain point, which is an achievable depth. It's pretty damn hot.
Speaker 1: I just it seems so simil that you could run
Speaker 1: a line down there. The water would heat up and
Speaker 1: boil like you talked about, and create steam, which would
Speaker 1: generate free electricity.
Speaker 2: Right yeah, Iceland uses out there some places with volcanic
Speaker 2: activity where the lava is closer to the surface that
Speaker 2: you can do And yeah, you know interesting, isn't it that? Gee,
Speaker 2: that's uh, let me think that's carbon free. Yeah, why
Speaker 2: aren't people talking about that, Brian.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's mind boggling. We're all pursuing hydrogen
Speaker 1: technology and all these different, you know, very complicated things,
Speaker 1: but the simplistic thing of really, you know, you put
Speaker 1: a pipe into the and I know it's more complicated
Speaker 1: to this. I'm not a scientist and I don't play
Speaker 1: I don't play one on radio. But there's that massive
Speaker 1: amount of heat, and yes, it is close to the
Speaker 1: surface in a lot of places on the Earth. Hell,
Speaker 1: there's active volcanoes out in Hawaii, right yeah, yeah, there are.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, geotherma for industrial applications what we
Speaker 2: call industrial heat applications are possible. I know up at
Speaker 2: Miami University they use geothermal as well and have cut
Speaker 2: their builds substantially. And again, they used to have a
Speaker 2: coal fired power plant actually at Miami, and they don't
Speaker 2: any longer, and they've added on to it every year.
Speaker 2: In a couple places around the world, people are putting
Speaker 2: geothermal under the streets and kind of giving it to
Speaker 2: an entire neighborhood, right and it can help a lot.
Speaker 2: There are a lot and I think that's really the
Speaker 2: issue is with AI and data centers. We need a
Speaker 2: lot more energy than we currently produce. We're having trouble
Speaker 2: getting it built because of some of these I'm going
Speaker 2: to call them silly environmental and process laws where we
Speaker 2: can't get anything done and then the loser sues and
Speaker 2: it's tied up for another seven to ten years. We've
Speaker 2: got to get back to a country of building things.
Speaker 2: And I know this president wants to get stuff built.
Speaker 2: He's a developer, he likes building stuff. And we've got
Speaker 2: to simplify what we're doing and get back to that
Speaker 2: core mission. Because America used to be doers, or we
Speaker 2: used to be builders and whether that's energy, whether that's infrastructure,
Speaker 2: where that's roads, highways, whatever, we.
Speaker 1: Need to get back to that. Yeah, and the more
Speaker 1: abundant and inexpensive the energy is, the more likely it
Speaker 1: is we can achieve these goals. And everybody listening audience
Speaker 1: knows what's coming. I want to hear about nuclear power
Speaker 1: because it seems to be the literal answer to so
Speaker 1: many prayers, including environmentalist prayers. The way these new nuke
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Speaker 3: Traffic time from the UCL Traffic Center. Heart disease is
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Speaker 3: fifty five KERR see the talk station.
Speaker 1: Seven forty fifty five KRCD Talk Station Brian Thomas with
Speaker 1: BRIGHAMCGWN from the Hudson into talking energy policy. He'll be
Speaker 1: testifying in front of a Congressional committee tomorrow on energy policy.
Speaker 1: And Brigham's in all the above kind of guy and
Speaker 1: all the above suggests. Of course, among other things, we
Speaker 1: talked about nuclear power, which it drives me out of
Speaker 1: my mind, considering everybody's all worried about carbon output. Nuclear
Speaker 1: power doesn't put any carbon. And know these are no
Speaker 1: longer three mile island type nuclear plants. We have moved.
Speaker 1: We are decades past that new technologies exist, closed loop
Speaker 1: systems that don't require cooling towers, and as you pointed
Speaker 1: out to me off the break, no problem with waste anymore.
Speaker 1: With nuclear plants.
Speaker 2: Right, we can recycle they spent uranium and pretty much
Speaker 2: put it back into operation. Nuclear fission, which is what
Speaker 2: we use, releases exponential amounts of energy over a fairly
Speaker 2: small footprint for a you know, a plant, And we
Speaker 2: have the capability to make large ones like we've like
Speaker 2: we always have, as well as to make a SMR
Speaker 2: smaller modular or a small modular reactor SMR, and even microreactors.
Speaker 1: You mean, like the ones on my friend's submarine and
Speaker 1: the ones that are used to powered battleships and have
Speaker 1: been for the last fifty years. Brigham.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, how about that aircraft care All of our
Speaker 2: submarines have been nuclear powered since sixties. Yeah, maybe late fifties,
Speaker 2: late fifties. Somebody will call in and say, what they're
Speaker 2: a Michael chime in on that. But yeah, and right,
Speaker 2: I mean this is not new. And they're run by
Speaker 2: eighteen to twenty one year olds, you got that right,
Speaker 2: And they're the smartest people.
Speaker 1: In the navy. By the way.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm an aviation guy, not a submarine or
Speaker 2: don't call them some mariners.
Speaker 1: They get upset. I know, I found that out too.
Speaker 1: I got corrected, so I haven't made that mistake.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we can release large amounts of energy that over
Speaker 2: the lifetime is one of the most cost effective way
Speaker 2: per kilowatt hour. But the government gets in our own
Speaker 2: way because our regulations are still antiquated. Yeah, we're still
Speaker 2: assuming we're building a three mile island and it takes
Speaker 2: you know, the joke is the Nuclear Regulatory Commissioned inn
Speaker 2: RCA has spent its entire life as an agency avoiding
Speaker 2: permitting anything that's got to change. That's got to change,
Speaker 2: and behind the scenes you won't hear much about this,
Speaker 2: but fusion. There is a space race on to develop
Speaker 2: fusion power. China's doing it, We're doing it. And that
Speaker 2: is the power of the sun, a sustainable combustion, never
Speaker 2: ending that creates more energy than it uses. That's the
Speaker 2: holy grail. It's always been fifty years away, but we'll see.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine that it's almost It acts in defiance
Speaker 1: and the laws of physics. I mean, you've go to
Speaker 1: the concept that energy matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
Speaker 1: How do you end up getting more energy out of
Speaker 1: something than anyway? Again, no scientists, am I, but I've
Speaker 1: been hearing about that technology for ill since I was
Speaker 1: a little kid. Are we close at all? Do you
Speaker 1: have any insight into how far we are from being
Speaker 1: able to harness that type of the technology.
Speaker 2: There are many startup companies in the US trying to
Speaker 2: figure this out, and unlike other energy where you share
Speaker 2: all this technology, they're being very they're holding everything very
Speaker 2: close to the vest right because well profit and you
Speaker 2: know the Chinese will just steal it. And so we
Speaker 2: have several different reactor designs. One of them is called
Speaker 2: the Tokamak reactor. Don't ask me why to figure out
Speaker 2: how to do this, And right now we can only
Speaker 2: sustain a chain reaction for anywhere from a few seconds
Speaker 2: to a record I'm told, but I haven't verified this
Speaker 2: independently as a thousand seconds, and then you have to
Speaker 2: tear the whole thing down and rebuild it.
Speaker 1: So wow, we're not quite there yet, I would say.
Speaker 2: But there are a couple of people that plan on
Speaker 2: small commercial versions of fusion as early as the end
Speaker 2: of this decade.
Speaker 1: Well real quickly before we take another break and bring
Speaker 1: it back for one more. In terms of the size
Speaker 1: of the nuclear plants, obviously, as you pointed out, they
Speaker 1: come in all shapes and sizes, but they're much more
Speaker 1: compact than they used to be. Artificial intelligence needs a
Speaker 1: just a ton of electricity, and it seems to me
Speaker 1: that it's going to be one of the easiest ways
Speaker 1: for us to actually get this for our own use,
Speaker 1: because all the big players in AI are talking nuclear technology,
Speaker 1: building their own plants on their own facilities. Could one
Speaker 1: of these smaller, say submarine or aircraft carrier size react
Speaker 1: or actually run an entire artificial intelligence facility? Or it
Speaker 1: require something bigger than that. No, it sure could.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you could plug a submarine and
Speaker 2: empower a city of three hundred and fifty thousand people
Speaker 2: there you go.
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Speaker 1: Five one three eight four seven zero zero one nine
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Speaker 1: nine fifty five krc.
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Speaker 1: Here's your TANNE nine weather forecast. Lots of clouds. We
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Speaker 3: Heart disease is the leading cause of death in the US.
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Speaker 3: seehealth dot Com. Cruise continue to work with an accident
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Speaker 1: Just shout at seven to fifty two if you about
Speaker 1: krcity talk station talking energy policy with the man who
Speaker 1: knows energy policy, bringing the gown from the Hudson Institute
Speaker 1: teaching energy policy at Miami University, with a bunch of
Speaker 1: brilliant young graduate students, and you had another comment you
Speaker 1: wanted to make about fusion and embrace yourself for these
Speaker 1: fun facts. Folks. Now, we're not quite there yet with fusion,
Speaker 1: but it looks like, you know, someday, maybe within our lifetime,
Speaker 1: we can harness this technology. But give them a little
Speaker 1: comparison by way of comparing it to nuclear power, and
Speaker 1: then Cole.
Speaker 2: Sure, well, fusion is generates four times the amount of
Speaker 2: power that fission produces, so it's.
Speaker 1: A lot more four times nuclear power.
Speaker 2: Four times more than new clear power, you know, bang
Speaker 2: for the buck, and for million times more energy than
Speaker 2: burning oil or coal four million Brian.
Speaker 1: That is just mind boggling, isn't that a lot?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 2: The trouble is, of course, you know the high temperatures
Speaker 2: required to make it, and that's that's really one of
Speaker 2: the impediments right now. But by the way, it doesn't
Speaker 2: really produce radioactive material. After you shut the thing down
Speaker 2: within a very short period of time, there's nothing left.
Speaker 2: There's no radioactive material or what there is closest to
Speaker 2: it can be. The half life is so short it
Speaker 2: doesn't require all the safety precautions that regular fission reactors require.
Speaker 1: All right, in terms of regular fission the stuff that
Speaker 1: we can do and can accomplish right now, because that's
Speaker 1: what the French are using for their electricity. In so
Speaker 1: many other places are building nuclear reactors. Where do we
Speaker 1: get the nuclear material from to run the reactor? Bring them? Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, this is amazing.
Speaker 2: We used to produce all of our nuclear fuel from Paducah,
Speaker 2: Kentucky and Piked in Ohio, not too far from where
Speaker 2: I grew up. And after the Cold War ended, we
Speaker 2: shut down that production because we took Russian fuel and
Speaker 2: down blended it. It was highly enriched uranium, nuclear bomb
Speaker 2: type material.
Speaker 1: This is post Soviet Union, falling post Silvit Union, and
Speaker 1: that was a good plan. You know.
Speaker 2: They said, please come take our stuff because we can't
Speaker 2: guarantee the safety, and we said, sure, we'll do that,
Speaker 2: but that decimated the domestic industry. We get our nuclear
Speaker 2: material from Russia. Canada wants to provide it for us,
Speaker 2: and they mine uranium. Once we get through our little
Speaker 2: family food fight with those guys, you know, and I
Speaker 2: do like the Canadians. They want a closer They even
Speaker 2: talked about an energy union and economic union with the US.
Speaker 2: They would like to do this, and I think, you know,
Speaker 2: Trump has his reasons for doing what he's doing, and
Speaker 2: it appears to be paying off. So while people are
Speaker 2: hysterical about what's going on with Mexico and in Canada,
Speaker 2: just you know, hold your fire. It's all going to
Speaker 2: be fine.
Speaker 1: Well, And it only took like twelve hours to put
Speaker 1: things in short order, getting the tariff shut down and
Speaker 1: Donald Trump getting some of his way with regard to
Speaker 1: the border security and trying to shut down fentanyl from
Speaker 1: flowing into our country.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's really what it's about. It's about securing
Speaker 2: the board, it's about fentanyl. It's about the drug trade
Speaker 2: back and forth. It's about illicit money coming back and forth.
Speaker 2: And you know, is it unorthodox? Yes, from a diplomatic perspective.
Speaker 2: Is it the nicest way to treat your neighbors? Maybe not,
Speaker 2: But you know, he's a disruptor, and when you hire
Speaker 2: a disruptor, they disrupt things. That's the whole point, and
Speaker 2: that's what leads to breakthroughs. Quite honestly.
Speaker 1: Well, and none of this should shock anybody because he
Speaker 1: ran on doing it. Yeah, I mean he was talking
Speaker 1: about terriffs in the last year and a half. I
Speaker 1: mean it's like, oh my god, he put tariff's and
Speaker 1: like what he said he was going to right, And
Speaker 1: if I were into Europe, I'd be getting ready. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're already rumbling from the European Union about counter tariffs.
Speaker 1: So it may be a great mechanism to get the
Speaker 1: ball rolling on further discussions, which it seems to have
Speaker 1: done here with Mexico and Canada. So let's keep our
Speaker 1: popcorn out. So far, it's born fu. There is a
Speaker 1: method to the madness. There certainly is. Brig him a
Speaker 1: gown again. Hudson dot Org is where you find Brigham.
Speaker 1: Search for his podcast, Charged Conversations and good luck with
Speaker 1: and safe travels on your way back to DC. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you very much, My pleasure man, I'll look forward
Speaker 1: to hearing how things go. Thanks Brian seventy six fifty
Speaker 1: five car City talk station inside scoop. We're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking with Texas Border Associate editor Bob Price on IC deportations,
Speaker 1: among other things. And then fast forward to eight thirty
Speaker 1: Daniel Davis deep dive on the latest going on with
Speaker 1: Ukraine and will Tulci and Pat cash Bettel be confirmed?
Speaker 1: Kind of looking that way. Daniel Davis on that at
Speaker 1: a thirty news happens fast, stay up to date.
Speaker 3: At the top of the hour, we're moving very quickly
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Speaker 1: The talk station