Speaker 1: All right, This is Paul White from Lagrains, Illinois and
I play at.
Speaker 2: Mountain Shadows in Scottsdale, Arizona.
Speaker 1: This is called Smarter number nine. Wedges don't come with
a user manual, and they should Where you got to
the front edge of the club and the back edge
of the club, and different lives will determine when you
need to use a bit more of the front edge.
Different lies will determine when you need to use a
little bit more of the back edge, when you need
to dig a bit more, when you need to play
a bit more with the back edge, which is what
I call it the bounce the back edge. So make
sure you get yourself in your dress position, depending on
the line and the shot, the best opportunity to execute
the shot. It starts with that. If you're on a
certain line and you're not setting up to it properly,
you may feel yippy when in fact not being able
to pull off the shot, when in the fact you're
just not utilizing the club properly. And that would be
the first thing I would check from a technique standpoint,
what's the lie doing? How do I use this club?
And don't be afraid to go experiment. Again, there's not
right or wrong, there's more efficient ways to do it.
But don't be afraid to go out and hit different
ships and experiment with the ball being up, experiment with
the ball being back, Experiment with an open face a
closed face. So I would do that. And the second
is be aware of what you're mindful of during the.
Speaker 3: Motion, debunking the myths on the roll of your wrists
during the swing with Kelvin Kelly.
Speaker 2: This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from
great golf minds to help you lower your score and
raise your golf IQ.
Speaker 1: Here's your host, Fred Green.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Golf Smurter podcast.
Speaker 1: Calvin, Yeah, Fret, thanks for having me back on.
Speaker 3: Great to have you back on. How's your podcast going.
Speaker 1: Hey, it's doing well. We got kickstarted with your help.
Were remember you were nice enough to kind of show
me the ropes and get the ball going on. Your
tremendous help and a few others helped me out and
it's been fun do about one a month, maybe two
a month, and reaching out to other people in the
golf business and always listening to yours for ideas. Sometimes
I steal some of your your guests after they've been
on your show.
Speaker 3: But who wait a minute, who.
Speaker 1: Shouldn't say steal him? But I'll get ideas.
Speaker 3: To Hey listen, people are like, oh, I'll be on
a podcast. Okay, So like what people have we both
had on the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people love being on a podcast.
Speaker 3: They do. Yeah, So like, tell me what topics you've
had with what with which guests?
Speaker 1: See Carl Morris, you've had on yours about a Yeah,
he's actually coming back on tomorrow. Okay, it'll be good. Yeah.
I always love talking golf with him and the performance
side because he just covers everything from you know, the
mental side of it to performing on the golf course.
There's a lot of good life stuff too. We talk
about what books he's been reading and and all that.
So he's always a good a good chat. Seems like
it could go three hours. Yeah. I've had Gary Edwin
on the Australian Teacher Talk a little bit more golf
swing that, Sean Foley on Talk to Stoicism. Actually from
article I wrote on Golf WRX, Gary Nickel co Athor show. Yeah, yeah,
co authored Lost Art of co author Lost Our putting
Lost Art of Playing Golf shoot, I've had Bradley Hughes,
popular golf instructor right now, both online teaches a bunch
of tour players. So I've done about thirty episodes.
Speaker 3: I think, well, it's interesting. It's a very different approach
than what I'm doing. Obviously, because you're an instructor and
talking to instructors. Do you get deep into the weeds
or do you try to keep it on a level
where it's for the everyman golfer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good questions. It is definitely a bit different.
To be honest, it's kind of for me. I know
that guys this is for me too, so I totally
get it sounds a bit selfish, but no, I just figured,
you know, I got a lot I've been in golf
since I was fifteen. I'm thirty nine. I got a
lot of good golf connections. I was figured out, why
not just ask other people in the business golf questions.
I would want to know whether or it's about the swing,
how to get better on the golf course, and figure
out just the tape the conversation and see where it goes.
So it's kind of weird juggling, like how much when
I'm in a conversation with somebody like I do got
to remember, well, you know, people want to listen to it,
So it's been kind of a kind of a mental battle,
I guess, you could say, thinking how much of it
should be for me and how much to people would actually,
you know, would want to listen to it. So it's
kind of different in a motivation, I guess, but try
to find a balance between the two. But it's yeah,
it's kind of for me, in which other people like
to listen to it seems.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I think that's the key to this,
at least, if I were to give any advice at all,
it would be just if it's about you, make it
about you and people will appreciate the honesty. Don't try
to pander to somebody or an audience, because you got
to remember on podcasts, and we may have discussed this,
people only listen by themselves. People rarely listen to a
podcast in a group. They watch TV in a group,
they go to a movie in a group, but when
it comes to podcasts, it's a very intimate experience because
they're usually wearing headphones or earbuds, so you're inside their head.
So you just want to communicate on a one to
one level, and if it's about you, keep it about
you and they'll relate, you know, they'll empathize with you
on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I never really thought about them listening to it solo.
It's a good point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And are you guys well? First of
what's the name of your podcast?
Speaker 1: Pretty simple? It's Kevin Kelly Golf Podcast. Okay, kind of
sounds but yeah, well it's okay.
Speaker 3: You're a golf instructors, you should put your name on it.
That's why I took recently, I took my face off
of my podcast artwork. It's like, I'm not giving instruction,
why is my face on you know, It's like, it's
not about that. I want to let I want to
put other people's faces on it, because they're giving the instruction.
They're the experts. I'm the student.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I originally had some other names that I could
start off with better than most, but it kept changing
and ended up with killing Kelly golfsk podcast just because
it's the conversation we has had. It's just it was
my conversations and all the other names sounded like Elie,
you know, trying to promote something or that it was
about a certain topic, and when it's it's about all
kinds of different topics in the golf business.
Speaker 3: Oh good, all good, I'm glad. So you know, does
this fall into like golf instruction for you and in
the podcast, because I know you have strong feelings about
online golf instruction, So how does the how do you
avoid getting caught in that in your podcast?
Speaker 1: Well, I just don't have all the online guys on
my on my own podcast. Yeah, it's more I guess
maybe it's a it's a bit of old school in
the sense that I love reading. It's my hobby outside
of golf. That in my Diehard and Las Vegas Raider fans,
old Oakland Raider fans. So I love reading. So I'm
starting to get some authors on my podcast from books
that I have enjoyed reading from the past, not related
to golf. Sure, not directly golf books. I just had
a doctor ann Anna Lemke on. She's the author of
Dope Imine Nation. She's actually a professor over down at Stanford,
so kind of relatable to golf in terms of how
the brain works. So just a book I enjoyed. And yeah,
and then if you've gone down the road wrote Road
of Perform golf performance. If you read the book, you
definitely see some correlation between the two. With the most
title sums up the books just how dopamine works in
our brain and how we get it, so super interesting read.
So it's a little bit and I just talked to
her to kind of combined it with with golf. Yeah,
maybe a bit a bit, a bit different than what
you would see with most kind of online podcasts or
even instructure. Like we were chatting before, I'm kind of
staying away from doing the online lessons and just seeing
how much it's, uh, it's it's it's how popular it
has become. Although it is very convenient for people, there's
just a lot of current fads and instruction that people
take and spew it out there trying to get followers
and ends up being you know, just content to be
honest and makes golfers worse. So, but trying to avoid
avoid going down that road.
Speaker 3: So let's talk about the things that frustrate you about
you know, like we're not talking about YouTube videos, are
we We're talking about people who are like sending videos
to instructors and letting them you know, like doing remote instruction.
Is that what you're would frustrates you on online golf instruction.
Speaker 1: I don't know, and may even frustrates a bit of
a bit of no overkill. Now, I think the YouTube
stuff is pretty bad too, to be honest. It's like
a Tiger Woods's stay away from YouTube.
Speaker 3: Tiger. Yeah, but have you seen Tiger Talks?
Speaker 1: No? I haven't seen that one.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Okay, So there's a couple of videos.
They're made by Taylor made and it's Tiger. My favorite
one is Tiger and Colin Morikawa talking about the short game.
Speaker 1: Oh. That stuff is pretty good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And and it's almost as if Colin is interviewing
Tiger about things that he does, you know, how he
plays short game shots and whatnot. And there's many times
during this that Colin's like, wow, I never knew that,
And I'm like, wait a minute, you've won multiple majors.
What do you mean you didn't know that? And you're
you're learning something new. It's really really compelling. Another one
that I watched was Tiger Rory and Nelly Corda on
driving okay.
Speaker 1: And awesome, awesome talks. There's a there's actually a tailor
made one with Tiger Rory and Jason Day. I think
it's like forty five minutes. They're talking about short game,
hitting different shots around the green. It's like a casual conversation.
That stuff is an exception, that stuff's completely different. That
really is That stuff is fascinating. How that they mike
him up and uh like, I will say, Bryce and
Dcambo's channels pretty sweet.
Speaker 3: And look what it's done for his life. I know
that's that's pretty much film changed his personality. I talked
to Matt Janella a couple of weeks ago about this
about Bryson and what an impact it's had on his
personality and presentation. I mean, the way he presented himself
after he won the Major was like really impressive.
Speaker 1: He's got a big PR team.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's you know, he's got a team. Lots of
strong people on UDDs team left and right, I mean everywhere.
Speaker 1: No, his channel is pretty sweet. That is the one
I do watch and the miked up to her players
with the short game and putting his Actually, that's promote
my I have my students listening to some of that
just to show them how many different ways there are
from the short game shots. But in my opinion, that's
almost anti kind of what I meant about the online
golf instruction warrible. Somebody will play but short game guru,
and this is my chipping method and this has to
be done this way, and everything else doesn't work, so
follow my program. So I would say that YouTube stuff
is almost complete opposite of the stuff that, like we
were chatting about before. It gets to me a bit
in my tend to screw in my students or even
the full swing of you know, here's my academy, do
it this way and that's right, and that's wrong, and
shallow the club this way, and it's all like the
same stuff over and over stuff, no different animal YouTube stuff.
Speaker 3: One of the things that really cracks me up actually
is we can fix your slice in five swings. We
can too, you know, just watch this video and in
five swings with nobody helping, you know and showing you
how to do it, you know, touching you. I mean,
you're a hands on instructor and you prefer it that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, Well now the biggest I mean I still
like to look. Well, I'm on the algorithm, so a
bit of a hypocrite. It's been way too much on Instagram.
I try and monitor how much I'm on it, but
I ended up. What do you call it when you're
passively scrolling when you don't even don't even realize it.
I work on it, but I'm definitely guilty of it.
So I do listen to a lot of stuff, Like
I said, listen to your podcast and other podcasts. But
he's got filtered. It's all the shallow in the club
now right hop on Instagram. It's ten different ways to
shallow the club, shallow the club, and just no real
teaching on how the body works and understanding origin and
getting to the root of how to fix it. And
they're all I almost think they're method teachers, and always
thinks they're not a method teacher, but that's their method.
They're They're all teaching the same thing. It's all the
video tape down the line. It's all shallow obsession. And
then it's all the same stuff.
Speaker 3: What do you mean by shallow obsession?
Speaker 1: I said, every two three years, there's fads in the
golf business. Right right now, it's just shallowing the club.
Where I'm pulling the club. You'll be publishing the video
where the schefts steep in it and it shallows this way.
I think the George Jenkish which he got really popular
online teaching a few years ago, I think it was
the start of it. So uh, that's kind of the main,
the main fad right now online everybody thinks they have
to be super shallow with the club or the trail
arm has to be in a certain position, and which
it is actually extremely beneficial to have the club a
bit more shallow, but there's a there's a bit more
to it in terms of how the body works, and
say two years maybe three years ago prior to the
shallow is the early extension and all my students saying
I can't have my butck come off the wall. TPI
started that one about add about four or five years ago,
and that's now basically been debunked. Well, you can't, or
the extent that's completely okay, probably bad for your back
if you do try and keep your butt back. So
now it's just interesting here in students that that that
keep up with that stuff come in and say, oh
what about this That person said that, or I saw
on this h on this Instagram post it's bad to
keep my butt back or has to come in this
way and it's like, oh more to it.
Speaker 3: So what do you find to be the most popular
myths that people are coming to you with when you're
giving one on one instruction and they're saying, well, you know,
I watched this video and he tells me I should
be doing this one. Are the things that you're like, Okay,
thank you for sharing that, but it is so not
for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question. I would say I can
answer that to you. I would say for different for
beginners and experienced players or scratch players. Sure, yeah, totally
for beginners, and it's that's no brainer. It's the classic
keep your head down in the golf swing. That's a killer.
Keep keep keeping your keeping your head down, trying to
keep your eye on the ball, looking at the ball,
and so everybody kind of looks like that after they
hit it. Now your face has to go with the
with your body in the golf swing like it would
with any sport. Home hit a tennis ball, a tennis
rack in my hand, my head's going to go that
way throwing a ball. People just think when they beginners
or people starting out, when they when they top the
ball or mishit it, they have the sensation that their
head might have gone early, so they they perceive that
they didn't keep their head down long enough, when it's
just it's a fake feel that's not really what's going on.
So the beginner is a common myth or misconception is
keep your head down. You definitely don't have to keep
your head down, and you're definitely not going early. Head
needs to actually go with the body. I get some
people to even feel like they're looking early against their
body to move to move better through the shot. So
that's definitely the first one. That's like a ninety percent
chance somebody comes in with that one right out of
the right, out of the gate.
Speaker 3: Now when you say a beginner, could that also fill
in for somebody who say a fifty five total.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, totally yeah, yeah, oh yeah, I've had yeah,
fifteen sixteen index players, hand keet players stay the same thing. Yeah,
So I would say that one rings is is common
not just with beginners, but yeah, kind of pretty much
all I say scratch golfers to categorize it. But yeah,
not flat out beginners, but I heard that. And the
second one is keep the arm straight. That's up there
with keep your head down, keep keep the left arm,
keep your keep your lead arm dead, straight and rigid
in the golf swing. I'd say that's the second killer,
or mostly.
Speaker 3: On the backswing or on the entire swing.
Speaker 1: I would say entire swing, but definitely on the backswing.
You don't have to keep your talking. For a right
handed golfer, you don't need to keep your left arm
straight in the golf swing. It's actually more, actually more
detrimental than than beneficial. If you don't play any sport
with with straight arms, you know, throw a ball with
straight arms. You don't shoot basketball, throw a football, throw
a baseball, and any sport that I know of with
with straight arms. In golf, you don't need to either.
It actually will hinder how you move people. Sometimes people
will see their their left arm on video and they'll
see it collapsed or too much bending. But usually there's
an origin to that. It's usually more time than not,
it's actually the trail arm not working properly, which which
makes that lead arm soften to bed. But they'll they'll
try and fix that by keeping their left arm straight,
and you're trying to keep that rigid and straight. It's
an uphill battle. You'll see a lot of two or
players with it looking straight on on camera. For sure,
some will be slightly bent. Someone will look straight, but
thereby no means intentionally keeping it locked and straight. And
different physiology too. Some people have a hyper extended left arm,
you know, different, different physiology. So rarely is somebody trying
to keep that I should say rarely, never is somebody
trying to keep that left arm piper extended through this swing.
Speaker 3: You can't move right. You can't rotate right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, understand, it just can't. I can't swing your arms,
can't that way, I can't swing your body.
Speaker 3: No, I'm very curious about this. As far as the
left arm for right handed golfer, you want to do.
You want to keep it straight for a certain amount
of time and then let it move a little more
as you get farther back, or it just that's not
relevant at all. It's all about the trail arm.
Speaker 1: I don't say it's relevant, but doesn't need to be
directly addressed. It is a good way to put it.
Generally speaking, I keep soft arms. I call them catching arms.
Like I'm in the video here, I'm just putting my
arm down of here throwing me a basketball. I'm catching
an impact bag. If if I were to catch it,
both my arms would look like this where they're both
double armbent, so they're both really almost at ninety degrees here.
And if I get my arm structure proper, my right
shoel lived below my left, since since we gripped the
right hand blow the left and the golf swing, naturally
their right shoulder should be a bit more below or left.
And then when I get my arm structure like this
a bit, then it'll it'll look straight, but it's still
got some some then to it. Like I said, if
you have a hyper extended left arm, it'll it'll look
rigid and straight. But then if you get your right
arm to work properly and your body to work efficiently,
and you keep the radius the same radius is how
far the hands are from the body and the clubhead,
that arm should actually take care of itself. So I'd
never have to have somebody think about keeping the arm
same flex if any will be the opposite. And if
people are too wide with their golf swing, because that's
going back to YouTube, it's commonly taught is take it
back wide wide as you can. And people take it
back wide like that, they'll actually get narrow at the
top of this when that arm will get collapsed. So
I actually almost teach the opposite. We're all get people
to feel at times, depending on the player, I'll get
at times, I'll get players to feel almost like that
left arm throughout their backstone, because I know that will
look like that with speed, because your muscle is a
long game when you make the motion dynamic, So my
feeling will be this soft almost. The people that don't
have a video that almost look alligat or armed, dish funky,
like I couldn't break a hundred, But that feel with
stee will look extended and my arm will look straight.
So just a differency feel in reality and what you
feel at a that's slow motion compared to what happens
when the motion becomes dynamic.
Speaker 3: But there's other parts of the arm. Let's break this
down even further. The upper arm, right, So like I
in watching you describe that and you talk about people
reaching out, you know, all of a sudden, now their
body's not straight anymore. They're swaying back and forth here, right,
which is obviously a big problem. But what about the
upper arm. I mean, we've been we've heard a lot
about I've seen Gary player talk about this on video,
and we had Tony Manzoni talk about this a lot
about keeping that left arm or your your left upper arm,
your bicep kind of attached to your pack, right to
your chest. Tell me your thoughts on where the upper
arm is in that backswing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, good question, it's just all it's where start with
this one. Yeah. At a dress, I'll call it my
bicep tri step on top of my arms. Keep it simple.
At a dress, I like to see with those soft
I'm called throwing arms, not someone with bad arms, because
that kind of spooks people. Throwing arms or spaghetti arms
to need or those soft arms and can be moved
quickly like this, I can't throwing a ball with some
speed at a dress. I usually like to see. There
are some accepted, but I usually like to see the
top of the arms. Will say, in my case, my
biceps and my triceeps touching, touching my pecks. I hate
the word connected because it's not when I think, at
least in my mind. When I think connected, I think, Okay,
the top of my arms are touching my chest, and
I'm gonna keep it connected, and everything's gonna move together
and that's not really a dynamic motion. When when I'm
trying to keep my top of my arm connected to
my chest and I make everything everything move back at
the same time. If I start with myself throwing arms
and I get that club at move in first, my
arms will Actually you've seen the video here, and I'll
try and explain it the best I can for people
that don't have video. When I'm swinging, when I'm swinging
my arms around me this way, my arms are actually
pulling my shoulders, which in tern then pulls my chest
around so it is still connected in my left arm
is still touching stay my bicep and my tricep at
the at the top of the swing. Just the sequence
was a bit different than say, trying to keep it connected. Basically,
I'm not a fan of the one piece takeaway.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: It's a better way to explain it, where if I
grip it here and everything's moving together, most people listening
to this podcast could probably picture a one piece takeaway.
It's never made sense because when does that one piece,
When does that one piece stop, and when does the
club head keep going? And the second you gripped this
club the clubhead is the club becomes a part of you,
and that clubhead is the furthest point away from your body.
So I just don't see how that can't not move
first the clubhead. It's got to travel the greatest distance
if you're looking at me face on. So I'm getting
the clubhead going there, and I'm swinging the shaft and
my arms are moving and it's moving my shoulders. So
and that's what I call a turn in the golf swing. Well,
I don't really use the word turn. It's too subjective.
I don't know if we chatted about that the first
time I was on your podcast. Maybe not. I call
a golf thing a throw or or a coil or
I can see the lat here face on. When I
hear the word turn, I think of everything turning together,
like I'm turning around the talks and talk to something
body look there. Yeah, I look at it more of
a throw. If I'm swinging my arm up, my body
is going around a bit this way. I kindomatically speaking,
this isn't my opinion. It's actually a fact. I had
doctor Mark Bull on my podcast, not not to plug in.
Speaker 3: My own but no, that's fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anatomically speaking, if I just stood here and just
swung my arms up. For the people that are on
the video, I'm holding my chest in one spot. I'm
not trying to turn my might see my rib cage.
If I just swung my arms up with my soft
arms this way, that's a shoulder turn. So this here,
when my left arm goes across my chest, that's that's
moving my shoulder. This here where I'm moving my upper body.
Obviously my shoulders are moving in space, but that's not
a shoulder turn. That's being governed or engined by my chest.
I call it ribcage. By definition would be the thorax.
But so somebody would look at that and say that's
not a turn, I say it is. That's a shoulder turn.
And I go that way, and that's my throwing motion,
and that's a turn or a coil, not so much
the one piece where I don't as we'll stick the
club in my belly and swing it like that. It's
not a The golf motion isn't a belly putter golf sling.
It's it's a it's a dynamic throw. So I have
a different definition of the word turn. So fascinating stuff, Jack,
And there's always more than one way to get it done.
I've always appreciated how other people do get it done with,
say some some swings outside the norm or even cookie
cutter sling. So just my opinion on what a turn
is maybe a bit different than what most people think
of it as.
Speaker 3: All right, now, what about the wrist? I mean, if
we're gonna stay with the left arm here, and I
really love digging into this. Well, you know, we've talked
about the arm. We've talked about the upper arm. Now
let's talk about the wrist and the wrist cock on
the forward arm for a right handed golf will be
your left arm. So I have a tendency to bend
my wrist back, and I'm trying desperately these days to
not do that, to try to keep it you know,
like you know, I look at Dennis John, you know,
DJ doing it, and it's like he's almost tapping, scratching
his back the way he's got his wrist turned.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's one hundred percent dependent on what your
grip is at address and what the clubhead's doing going back.
So if you have a strong sort of have to
look at your grip to see if that's the right
potential fixer if you're going down the right path. There,
if I have an extremely strong grip, I turn my
left hand over like a Dustin Johnson right. See well,
I'm not gonna use Hm as a example because he's
an outlier. I'll explain that a bit. If I have
an extremely strong grip, I turn my left hand over,
I'm starting with a lot of cup I call it
cup or angle there within the back of my left
hand and the bottom of my form. So if I
take that cup with my strong grip and then bow
bow my wrist angle straight or flat or bowed, well,
that's gonna shut the face down. And that's actually what
Dustin Johnson does. He has extremely cut wrist of start
strong grip and then he bows it shut or excuse me,
he gets his wrist. Well, he has wrists boat and flat,
and that shuts the face. So with that bowed wrist
from a cupped address position with a shut face, he
has a different matchup with his body coming down. It's
why he has to look like he's uh clearing hard
with his body and then holding on do it through
the impact of any Then he lets it go and
he almost has that flippy looking wrist motion well after
the ball is gone. Yeah. So and now conversely, if
if it's so, it's okay to completely okay to have
extremely strong grip, uh, which and starting with a lot
of cup and and still having a lot of cup
at the top. That's just retaining your wrist angle. If
I went to it, say a neutral grip, which is
a little bit of angle, I mean I liked, ideally
like to see that just staying the same at the top.
So at that angle at the top of my left
hand or back of my left hand, bottom of my
form is the exact same as it was out of dress.
And then more times than not it'll actually come down
bode just the natural change of direction. That's another thing too,
is how is how is it coming down? So people
get people get caught with it? What does it looks
like at the top, But is it coming down boat?
Is it coming down the same? And I definitely don't
want to coming down with more cup. And I've seen
people go, uh, I'm trying to keep my left first
straight and they look bowed this way and then it
comes down that way and it comes down cup. So
obviously more to it. So, but the main is the
main takeaways because people people listening can can take aways.
It just depends on it depends on your grip and
defend depends what the club face is doing. Now, if
I have an extremely weak grip where I'm not seeing
a whole lot of knuckles on my left hand, well
that tends to be more bowed at the top. If
you think of a John rom John Rahm has an
extreme calling more calay. They both have extremely weak grips,
so not not very many knuckles on their left hand.
So just the forces in the golfing that that's going
to make the left wrist with boat so he can't.
You can't have a weak grip. And then add cup
that face is going to be too open. So people
will look at Colin more Cowis Bode wrist or John
Rahm or even Jordan's speeds and their risks. Bode risks
are completely different than say it Dustin Johnson, Bode wrist
or player X. It's all dependent on the grip and
on what the face is doing. But generally speaking, I mean,
I just like the wrist angles to be the same,
so I don't see why they should have to change
or if anything may be a bit Cup to cup
to boat in terms of the lead wrist.
Speaker 3: Interesting and what is the right arm doing in all
of this at that time?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I feel if if you start efficiently going
back to the right shoulder being below the left and
you have his right arm in a bit of a
tucked POSI not addressed, that's what we're trying to get
back to an impact a tuck position. If you can
just picture somebody pushing, you can just picture pushing a
wall from a standing position, pushing a wall with your
right hand or up against the wall. How that gets
your right arm in a bent position. When I do,
when I get into that arm structure in that right
elbow position, that creates a bit of angle in my
bottom right wrist, hence that pushing motion with my right hand.
And when I get that right wrist angle and I
get my arm structure and I get that club head
going first, I'm keeping that wrist angle, that natural wrist
angle in my right hand throughout this one. So it's
dependent on the start, just a little bit like the grip.
If again, more ways to get it done. But if
I start very level of address with my shoulders dead
square and the club in the middle of me. You
can just picture that. Well, then I'm more than likely
dependent on the grip, not going to have a lot
of angle on my right wrist. So if I do,
if I do add some risk set, well I'm going
to be creating a bit more angle. So you have
to look at the whole You have to look at
the whole story with what they start with, what the
grip is like, what the ball is doing, what the
club face is doing throughout the swing.
Speaker 3: And we're talking about a full swing, We're not talking
about a short web shot.
Speaker 1: Are planning good players people change in their grip on
a short game shot as well.
Speaker 3: The thing I've been struggling a lot with lately, and
I don't know why, because there were times in my
playing career where I was like nailing it every time,
is are these fifteen yard and less shots to the
green where I seem to be taking these great little
practice swings, making sure I'm nice and slow, trying to
hit the ball on the ground, and then I go
to take my swing and I'm sculling it or I'm
just chunking it, you know, hitting way behind the ball,
or I'm hitting in the middle of the ball and
it's just skirts all the way across the green. Help. Yeah,
give me some online instruction on that one, Calvin.
Speaker 1: Yeah. First, first I would say, make sure you know
how to use the club properly. If I'm even a
either a chip shot or a pitch shot, make sure
you understand and do your research. And there's a lot
of good stuff online with this on the makeup of
the club. It's like carry Nikolay out on your show,
said the Wedges. Don't take this line from them. Wedges
don't come with a user manual, and they should. Uh.
You've got the front edge of the club and the
back edge of the club, and different lives will determine
when you need to use a bit more of the
front edge. Different lives will determine when you need to
use a little bit more of the back edge, when
you need to dig a bit more, when you need
to play a bit more with the back edge, which
is what I call the bounce the back edge. So
make sure you get yourself in your dress position. Depending
on the dependent on the line the shot, the best
opportunity to execute the shot. So it starts with that.
If you're on a certain line, you're and you're not
setting up to it properly. You may you may feel
yippy when in fact, uh, and not being able to
pull off the shop when in the fact you're just
not utilizing using the club properly, So that that would
be the first thing I would check from it from
a technique standpoint, what's the lie doing? How do I
use this club? And Uh, don't be afraid to go
experiment Again, there's there's not right or wrong, there's more
efficient ways to do it, But don't be afraid to
go out and hit different chips and experiment with the
ball being up, experiment with the ball being back, experience
with experience, experiment with an open face a closed face.
So I would do that. And then second is if
people ever get a bit jittery over the ball, is
be aware of what you're mindful of during during the motion. Uh,
pay attention to where your attention is, meaning what am
I simply put it? What am I holding on too
in my mind when I'm making that pitching motion. Is
it bouncing around thinking don't chunk it, don't fin it,
which is obviously not going to be very productive. Or
am I able to hold my attention on where I'm
landing the ball? Am I able to hold the image
of the trajectory of the pitch my case, I like
it a bit more internal, or I like to feel
my whole. I like to feel my arms carrying my
body around. So I'll walk in with that motion once
I decide the shot where I'm gonna swing my arms
back and I'm gonna let my arms collect my body
on the way through, and I'll use that once I
program that motion, I'll use that motion over the ball,
and I'll and I'll practice it, and I'll be mindful
of being able to hold that motion in my mind
so my body can properly do it. So I find
on people who are a bit jittery over the ball
or get a bit yippy. If the technique is good,
it's it's more of a it's more of a mindful
issue where it almost you need. It's kind a form
of meditation where you got to get practice. You got
to get good at being able to hold your attention
on one thing for a second two seconds. It's hard,
and you practice by going for a while walk. And
I got tested this way where i'd go somebody asked
me to go for a walk in my in my
uh out here in San Francisco, And how how far
can I walk feeling my feet touching the ground before
my mind went sideways and thought about something else. Little
things like that can actually improve your your chipping and pitching.
And how many steps I can do about two before
my mind goes elsewhere.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's I could There's no way I can
go that long.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's.
Speaker 3: Pretty steps forget it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fascinating subject. It could be. It could
be going out and uh, just listening to your song
or paying attention to your surroundings, but just being able
to hold something in your mind with when there's other
distractions going on, and there's other direct distractions going on
when you're when you're putting on a putting green, you
got people hovering over, you're watching you, You're nervous, you
don't want to miss a short put or you don't
want to chunk your chunk your pitch, and you get
good at narrowing your focus of attention and being able
to retain it.
Speaker 3: Dude, I really appreciate these insights and I hate say lessons.
I know this is really going to be helpful. I'm
going to listen to this multiple times because it's going
to help me out a lot. I want to make
a turn now and talk about in your bag, the
clubs in your bag, And I start with a topic
that I've been noticing a lot of conversation about lately.
I don't know if you have an opinion or not
in what your opinion would be, but mini drivers. You
know seeing a lot of people talk about that they
struggle with the driver off the tee, but they're pretty
good with their three wood and this could be a
good solution. Or is this like Jim Waldron said recently
to us about Yeah, that's for the better players only
don't worry about it, you know, if you're a mid
a handicapped player. Tell me your thoughts on mini driver.
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I haven't been asked that one.
Uh well, my first get My first instinct would say
get better hitting your driver, come in for a lesson,
let's figure your driver out. The game's a lot easier
when you're when you're closer to the hole off the
tee and then and get filled. Yeah, I get yeah
that too. That will help or at least get you know,
proper clubs. I find all the clubs now are extremely
shut especially for higher handicap players. And I think that
works against you because well, most people hit the ball right,
so the manufacturer makes the club shut, and then it
works against you because you're trying to open the face up.
I think you end up slicing it. I think if
you have a square face or even an open face
which you which you would think would make the ball
go right, but then you then you learn to hook
it from there and it'll actually long term make to
make your swing a bit better. Yeah, the mini driver,
I never really thought about that one. I mean, the
three wood is going to be a bit straighter for
people just because there's there's more loft on the club.
So when there's more loft, the ball is going to
go a bit straighter. There's more spin on it, and
the club's an inch shorter, So generally speaking, someone's going
to be a bit more straighter with their three wood,
and the driver is going to expose the miss because
or what they're their pattern in the golf swing because
it's a longer club and there's less loft, so it's
tough to come into the ball steep and acrossed it,
which most higher handicappers do. As opposed to coming into
the ball around and gets quote unquote shallow. But yeah,
I mean it's it's a good it's a good middle
ground if you are struggling struggling with your driver. I
haven't seen one in a while, actually, I know they
were a popular. Taylor Made had one a few years
back that was showing up. I think Title has had
one a few years back. I think that they're a
bit smaller in the head right than than than the
normal driver.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think Taylor Made, Taylor Made, I think,
is back out with a new version of the mini Driver,
and that it is, you know, a little bit bigger
than a three wood as far as the head size,
but smaller than a driver. And they're using you know,
twenty first century, twenty twenty four technology in club head
design to get you you know, and a shorter shaft
to really be able to launch the ball well and
hit it far. And for some it's replacing a driver
because they can get it in the fairway more often
and still get good distance on it. And the shorter
shaft I think improves that a lot too. A lot
of people are playing with shorter shafts on drivers because
you know, the longer the longer the shaft, the less
control you have.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, how expensive are they? Have you seen? Are
they priced at a driver or three? Would that?
Speaker 3: I don't have an answer to that.
Speaker 1: The sake is clubs are getting more and more expensive.
I mean, if you have finances for it, sure, and
if you're sure you're a club junkie, might as well
pick one up and explore it.
Speaker 2: That.
Speaker 1: I'm all about that. If you can't afford what, I'd
say either a get better with your driver, be add
more loft your driver, or if you pick up a
three wood with with wes loft, get kid get a
strong threewood like that Taylor made the Tailor made rocket
balls that came out years ago. That that white That
thing's still awesome. That the white the Taylor made White
Series one. Whereas you have the rocketballs with the white
head like Nicholson was using it years back off the tee.
It was like one of the strongest three woods I
think ever made. People were replacing that for their driver
years back. It had had it been like seven eight
years ago, maybe more than that.
Speaker 3: All Right, So here's a different question, yep, that you
made me think of while you were saying that someone
your spouse saying, Hey, I'm going to buy you a present.
What club do you want? Or Okay, I have a
budget for an expensive golf club. Right where would where
would you go with that? Would you? You know, because
people are like they'll spend four hundred dollars on a
driver for four fifty five hundred dollars on a driver
that they hit maybe ten times in a round, and
they'll like, yeah, I don't know if I can spend
that much money on a potter. It's like, dude, you
you know, minimum thirty six times on your scorecard is
your putter. You're going to use it? You know, Like
as I think titleist says, the only the only piece
of equipment that is on every shot is the ball. Okay,
so after the ball, you know, where would you if
you had money to and let's use the word invest
on a golf club, where would you go with that?
Would you advise someone to say, yeah, do it the putter?
Speaker 1: I would go putter. Yeah, I would go plutter, just
because especially summertime, this time of year. I mean, first,
I still love to play. I like to work on
my own game, and nothing beats going out at the
end of the day to Peacock Gap or where we're
at or your local course and being able to putt
for thirty minutes forty five minutes in the evening. If
you don't have time to hit balls or not physically
feeling up to hitting balls, you can still get a
good thirty minute twenty thirty minute good practice session in
of putting, even at home putting in winter time. I
think it's important to have a putter that you're gonna
look down to them, which is that you're gonna like,
you're gonna feel comfortable with. And I think it's fun
to go down the rabbit hole of getting fit for
a putter.
Speaker 4: What what.
Speaker 1: Kind of lines do you like? Do you like a line?
Do you like no line? Do you like three lines?
Do you like a two ball? Just always exploring with putters,
and it gets you out and experiment with different ones,
and I make more putts with this or that feels
good or I can't aim this one. I have a
putter with no lines. I have the old tailor made
now old one. It's a bit old now the tailor
made spire and the all blackwood, no lines because I
just don't like seeing the line down it makes my
stroke feel too straight back and straight through. And yeah,
so i'd say putter. Everybody's using that lab putter. Now,
that's that's an investment. You have one? Yeah, I think
that's like seventeen hundred bucks. But it's really cool. I mean,
it feels amazing. I have. Yeah, I haven't been able
to pull the trigger on it yet, but I understand
why people are buying them. It's I love it and
it's so cool Tooa's on their website. You can you
can design your design your putter. You can pick your
lines on it. Uh. I don't know how if there's
how much merit there is to the whole upgraded shaft
and all that. I have to do some research. But yeah,
I mean and putters too. They age. You can have
that thing for ten years and don't like it down
the road, sell it and you see still still see
Scotty Cameron's going for crazy money that came out ten
years ago.
Speaker 3: Right, So are you a blade or a mallet guy?
Speaker 1: I go back and forth.
Speaker 3: Do you really how many putters do you have?
Speaker 1: And actually, to be honest, not that many. I always
end up lending them to friends. I probably have a
lot of my friends and my students have them.
Speaker 2: I do like.
Speaker 1: I do like some with a bit of tow hang,
though I don't like the face balance makes my stroke
feel too straight back, straight through, so I definitely even
if it's a mallet, I do like my Spider's got
a slight toe hang.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I know the audience is like, oh, Fred,
don't don't. Don't do it, Fred, don't do it. Because
I've been pretty obsessed with lab putters recently and I
just went up to the factory and I hung out
with the CEO and played golf with him and got
a tutorial on my putter with him. And the whole
idea of the face balance toe balance is all marketing hype.
I mean, you know what they have created, this invention
of lie angle balance. Here I go, I'm sorry, I.
Speaker 1: Sell a couple here, go to YouTube. I did see
a couple of YouTube seminar or things with that that
I can't remember the name. The CEO of it, and
he was talking about why it's the revealer. Yeah, and
he was talking about it. I think you have to
play a ball a bit more forward in your stance too.
I think you have to set up do it a
slightly different way, which I don't think most people know
that ball camp in the middle of your stands with
that putter, because I think the shouts in a different
different position in the head and the weight of it.
So I mean what they're saying makes sense, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and what they've designed you, it's amazing that you
look at the head of that thing. And well, plus
a lot of people don't like center shafting, which I
always have. And yeah, the idea of untorque yourself is
like you know, which is there's no torque that you
have in a normal golf swing that you've got to
to try to make sure that you're online to make
sure you know, because if you hit it off the
toe or the heel on a normal putter, you're not
going to get the same reaction as you would if
you hit it square in the sweet spot. But on
the lab putters, it doesn't matter where you hit it
on the face. It's going to go on the line
that you're you're pointing at, which makes a huge difference.
So I didn't really there like Fred stop it already.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I've put it with to them in
both you amazing.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and they is the size of the head.
It looks so big, you think it's so much heavier,
but once you get the stroke going, it just it's effortless.
You don't feel the weight at all and you just
feel great contact.
Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, okay, I did it. I did.
Speaker 3: I was trying not to. But when you talk you
brought it up you.
Speaker 1: I did know they're nice butter so that that would
be one investment that that would be worth it if
you if you like to feel for it for sure.
You can always resellers. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh and there's a market now you can do it.
But it's so easy to get fitted for it, but
they're now starting to go retailing you all right, Well,
everybody the Kelvin Kelly Golf podcast. I'm going to promote
that for you and check it out. Have you know
instructor talking to instructors and hear what they have to
say as opposed to golfers talking to instructors, And where
else can we find you online? I know you don't
want to promote them.
Speaker 1: No, it's fine. I mean I do write articles for
golf and golf dot com, case Sam Old School online,
just not uh anyways, Kelly goolf dot Com k e
l L e y Golf dot com is my website
and I am on Twitter k Kelly Underscore Golf or
at Capito. K Kelly Underscore Golf is my Twitter. I
do have an Instagram, but not much on their pictures
of my dog, well maybe maybe a little bit last night.
She's got her own Instagram, So not much on there
but Twitter and my website.
Speaker 3: You'll see some stuff and just make sure it's k
E l l e y Y Yeah, yeah e y Golf. Well, dude,
it was great talking to you again. Loved sharing this
information and love your feedback and your insights. Thanks so
much for coming back on the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for having me on Fred Cool Discussion.
Speaker 3: So there's this hilarious video going around on Instagram that
you may have already seen since it has more than
a million views in the first week since being released.
Not sure who created it, but it works well for
Audio two, so I needed to share it with you.
Let me say, at the scene, there are two women,
probably in their late thirties, sitting alone in a nice
restaurant next to large windows overlooking beautiful outdoor views. Could
even be a country club. The bill has just arrived
and the women on the left begins.
Speaker 2: It's on me.
Speaker 3: What is going on? You're picking up brunch? You have
a new designer bag? Did you win the lottery or something.
Speaker 2: I've been making a ton of cash talking to men
on Onlyfan.
Speaker 4: You're getting naked on the internet for money, not only.
Speaker 2: Fans, Only fan?
Speaker 1: What is that?
Speaker 2: It's a phone line where men can call in to
talk to someone about their golf game.
Speaker 3: Why would they pay for that?
Speaker 2: When a man finishes playing around of golf, all he
wants is to talk to his wife or his girlfriend
about it, but they don't care. That's where I come in.
They pay me to listen. I'm literally their only fan.
Speaker 3: What do they say?
Speaker 2: What a score was, what a score should have been?
How he should have warmed it longer?
Speaker 1: On the range?
Speaker 2: A cart girl that he thinks is in a hit.
Oh it's Oliver. He's one of my regulars. He says
he's an eight handicap and in reality he's probably a fifteen.
Speaker 1: This will week quick, Hey Allie, pre birds in a row.
Speaker 2: Wow, that must be a new record for you.
Speaker 1: Oh my hot dog there.
Speaker 2: Oh you're only at the turn. We'll call me when
you're done.
Speaker 4: I love you.
Speaker 2: That's it simple as that. I mean, most of the
time you just have to say uh huh. But if
you get stuck, onlyfan gives you cheat sheet.
Speaker 3: Nice bounce back, that's gonna happen out there.
Speaker 4: A bad day of golf is better than a good
day at work.
Speaker 2: Oh looks like a newbie. I don't want it. There's
nothing to entrust me.
Speaker 3: Hello.
Speaker 4: Hey, So I was playing the round of my life today.
I was plus two through seven, and then I hit
a sprinkler head on eight, and then my ball went
into the lake. And then there's the wheels fell off,
bad break, I know, right, I mean, and then my
five arm somehow wasn't in my bag. You know, that's
my favorite club. Slow golfers are the worst, Oh the worst.
Speaker 1: Out of rhythm. This is so easy.
Speaker 2: Wait until August when fan fantasy comes around. It's this,
but for fantasy football a lot of injury report talk.
Speaker 3: Even Tiger couldn't have pulled that off. Love it so
I shared this on our family tech thread this past
week and got a great reaction from both my sons
and their wives. The next day, my wife loved it
too well. The next day, after my round of golf,
I called my wife to say I'm on my way home,
and she asked me how my day was. I started
telling her how I had three birdies on the front nine,
when she interrupted and dryly said you should call that number.
You couldn't find anything about onlyfan on Google. Obviously the
search only produces info on OnlyFans, which I have no
interest in checking out. If someone wrote on Instagram, this
could be a zillion dollar business. Keep me posted if
you're the one who creates it. This week's Golf Smarter Ambassador,
Paul White, is clearly a snowbird because he lives in Illinois,
but his course is in Scottsdale, Arizona. Thanks Paul for
playing through. Paul asked for the free link to Tony
Manzoni's video of the loss Fundamental, which was his gift
just for sharing with us where he lives, where he plays,
and which episode number this is. But after last week's episode,
I've already received more requests from new ambassadors to receive
a glove and glove storage compartment from Red Rooster Golf.
You may want to do that too. When you sign
up to be a Golf Smarter Ambassador, you get a
choice of three free gifts including Tony Manzoni's video, a
box of indestructible teas from Flightpath Golf, or the glove
and Glove storage compartment from Red Rooster Golf. All you
need to do is introduce a future episode. Just write
to golf Smarter Podcast at gmail dot com. I'll get
back to you with some simple instructions on how to play.
If you have any questions, comments, or suggestions for upcoming episodes.
And I mentioned last week that I got a suggestion
they wanted to hear from Jeff Mangum again and from
the Putting Zone. I immediately wrote to him. He wrote back,
we recorded, and you're gonna hear a full hour of
Jeff's outrageous putting instruction and always can we say controversial.
Jeff's a hoot and he's going to be on next week.
So please write to golf Smarter Podcast at gmail dot
com or click on the Heyfred button when you visit
golfsmarter dot com