WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:27.359 Will you wait, miss. 2 00:00:18.760 --> 00:01:12.319 Sill put the twist, if you smoke like a smoke 3 00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:17.439 like every day and if you as as a buster 4 00:01:17.719 --> 00:01:18.840 two one three, will. 5 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:21.799 Wag you lay? 6 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:33.319 Welcome back midnight viewers to midnight viewing. And if hey, 7 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:35.640 if Warren g is on the soundtrack, then we're talking 8 00:01:35.640 --> 00:01:39.280 about the regulators and that can mean only one thing. 9 00:01:39.319 --> 00:01:42.840 We're talking about Young Guns tonight joining me as a 10 00:01:43.159 --> 00:01:45.159 permanent guest here. Look, we had such a good time 11 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:47.640 talking about the movie Crossroads, and that was just a 12 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:50.599 midnight viewing one off thing. But as it turns out, 13 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:54.280 having looked through the film credits of the writer of 14 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:57.239 that particular film, mister John Fusco, turns out we like 15 00:01:57.599 --> 00:01:59.920 pretty much all of his films and he's his uns 16 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:03.439 song as a screenwriter gets so turns out we're just 17 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:07.239 gonna blaze on through his fucking filmography. Crossroads was his first. 18 00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:10.680 So next up is Young Guns joining me to do it. 19 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:13.080 We did. We did Crossroads together. We're me doing all 20 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:16.439 of these. Host of Noise Junkies, Host of Night, mister 21 00:02:16.520 --> 00:02:18.080 Walter is a taxi podcast. 22 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:22.159 Mister h p annoy, did you follm alone? I gotta 23 00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:24.840 say you took my Nate dog joke. I was all ready. 24 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:26.840 I thought, Oh, this is gonna be great to kick 25 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:29.599 it off, and once again you're one step ahead of me. 26 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:30.319 What can I say? 27 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:32.280 Hey man, we're gonna come out of that music. That's 28 00:02:32.280 --> 00:02:33.159 what's happening there. 29 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:36.560 No excited. The Crossroads was fun and this is going 30 00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:37.599 to be a blast. 31 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:41.319 Indeed, so Young Guns. This was released on August the twelfth, 32 00:02:41.400 --> 00:02:46.400 nineteen eighty eight, directed by Christopher Cain, written by John Fusco, 33 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:51.080 starring Emilio Estevez, Keeper Sutherland, Lou Diamond, Phillips, Charlie Sheen, 34 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:58.400 Dermott mulroney, Casey Shamasco, Terry O'Quinn, Jack Palins, and Terrence Stamp, 35 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:01.120 with cinematography by Dean and Similar. 36 00:03:10.879 --> 00:03:14.280 The Six Reasons Why the West Was Wild and. 37 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:16.400 No One's fool enough to go and after Murphy's people. 38 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:23.280 Emilio Stebs, I'm in deputize them. Keeper Sutherland, it looks 39 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:26.520 like trouble. Trouble, you figure looks like trouble. I'm a poet. 40 00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:27.319 Next weeen. 41 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:28.680 Those are just boys, ain't one of them? 42 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:31.000 Over twenty one Murphy's been on front of and half 43 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:41.439 within a day. Casey Shimoshko, I'm a pugeisten gord to 44 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:48.719 Jermy Dermott mulroney as lou Diamond Phillips by vision told 45 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:54.759 me we're headed for blood. Charlie Sheen, we got words. 46 00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:55.639 You're alone. 47 00:03:56.199 --> 00:03:59.120 You're supposed to serve elemon warrants that exposed to ring. 48 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:00.000 It's time to went out. 49 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:00.919 You went on the war pen. 50 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:03.360 The Governor's revoked your deputization of powers. 51 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:05.719 You're now wanted by the legitimate law as well as 52 00:04:05.719 --> 00:04:06.840 goes outside law. 53 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:16.959 You're being hunted by trumps, the odds, young guns. 54 00:04:19.920 --> 00:04:22.839 This is the story of Billy the Kid and the 55 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:25.839 Lincoln County War. Now, this is one of dozens upon 56 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:29.160 dozens of films about Billy the Kid, but one of 57 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:32.519 the only few to touch on the Lincoln County War. Ordinarily, 58 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:35.120 when they're telling Billy the Kid's story, it's about the 59 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:39.680 Kid's gang being hunted by Pat Garrett, and the events 60 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:43.639 of the Lincoln County War always loom large because that's 61 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:47.959 what set his eventual fall to fall from grace in motion. 62 00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.600 But it's very rarely presented. The only film that I 63 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:54.279 can think of that really did it prior to this 64 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:58.480 was Chisholm in seventy one with John Wayne, and that 65 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:01.839 was a boring slog. This is the only one that 66 00:05:01.399 --> 00:05:04.120 kind that kind of doesn't and does it right. But 67 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.439 we'll get into the nuts and bolts of it there are. 68 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:11.160 It's a wildly historically accurate film for what is essentially 69 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:15.279 a pot boiler Shoot them Up. HP. When did you 70 00:05:15.319 --> 00:05:18.199 first see Young Guns? What was your experience with it then? 71 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:18.680 Now? 72 00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:22.199 So I did not see Young Guns the first one 73 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:24.399 in the theater. I did see the second one, but 74 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:27.480 this one, it probably it must have been on cable 75 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:29.800 around that time. I guess we were in high school, 76 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:32.879 so it's probably what did you say? This was eighty 77 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:34.040 eight eighty. 78 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:37.720 Seven, nineteen eighty eight, August nineteen eighty eight, nineteen. 79 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:39.360 Eighty eight, so I probably saw it around then. I 80 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:42.720 confess at the time the big critical knock against this, 81 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:44.639 and I know we'll probably get into this a little more, 82 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:48.639 was this was still kind of post brat pack. I 83 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:51.839 guess this was. I think this was unfairly tagged as 84 00:05:51.879 --> 00:05:56.000 a brat pack Western, so that probably turned me off 85 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:58.079 a little bit at the time. I wasn't necessary and 86 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:01.759 I wasn't necessarily a huge Western ban in high school. 87 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:05.680 But I was surprised, as you said, to find out 88 00:06:05.720 --> 00:06:08.000 after the fact that this was considered one of the 89 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:12.279 more historically accurate depictions of this time period in these events, 90 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:13.560 So that thought that was kind of cool. 91 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:15.360 What's your opinion of it now? 92 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:20.480 Mixed mixed opinion, Father Malone. I, if I'm being totally 93 00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:24.560 honest as you should be, I should be I prefer 94 00:06:24.720 --> 00:06:28.560 young guns too, because well, we're going to get into 95 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:30.439 all these reasons. I hate I don't want to this 96 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:32.480 is too long, didn't read kind of a thing. But 97 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:37.759 I think I have issues with the direction of this movie, 98 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:42.360 which again we'll talk about, but I in rewatching it. 99 00:06:42.399 --> 00:06:45.199 I probably haven't seen it in at least ten years. 100 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:49.000 The performances, actually, I was impressed. They were better than 101 00:06:49.040 --> 00:06:52.199 I remember them being, so that was a big plus. 102 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:55.040 And I forgot that Terry O'Quinn was in it. I 103 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:58.319 forgot that Terrence Stamp is John Tunstall and he is 104 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:01.000 always a welcome sight. So it was a bit of 105 00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:02.959 a mixed bag, but I'm sure we'll get into it. 106 00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:08.439 In nineteen eighty eight, I, like you, had tired of 107 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.839 the brat pack, both as a concept that the media 108 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:15.839 was shoving down our throats and by the output of 109 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:20.360 the members of the brat Pack except mister Emilio Estevez. 110 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:24.439 I've never had any truck with mister Emilio Estevez. Look, man, 111 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:27.319 he's in Repo Man. That's where I first saw him 112 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:30.319 and forever in always He's gonna be the fucking coolest 113 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:32.079 no matter what he does, because he was in Repo 114 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:35.000 Man and he is a really good actor, and I 115 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.600 thought he was unfairly painted with the brush of these 116 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:40.639 are young kids who just want to be famous for 117 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:43.480 famous sake. None of them are interested in the craft. 118 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:46.319 I thought that was bullshit when it came to Estevez, 119 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:52.160 and I'd liked everything he'd done, Outsiders, fucking soda pop 120 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:54.560 Curtis for fuck's sake, with the Mickey Mouse shirt and 121 00:07:54.600 --> 00:07:56.600 the fucking switchblade. Are you kidding me? 122 00:07:57.279 --> 00:07:57.639 I love? 123 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:02.879 Yeah, so I although I felt like the brad Pack 124 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:07.639 themselves were annoying. I remember seeing this trailer for this film, 125 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:10.399 which if you've watched the credit sequence for the film, 126 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:14.439 it's the sort of solarized They're coming up over the 127 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:17.720 ridge and then they're all shooting their guns and stuff. Right, Okay, 128 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:20.519 now imagine that without the solarization without any of the 129 00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.560 terrible music, and it's these masked figures coming up over 130 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:27.160 the thing, and then each of them pulls their masks down, 131 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:30.000 and it's like all of the fucking best of the 132 00:08:30.079 --> 00:08:33.600 youngest actors going right now, and then they're firing their guns, 133 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:36.320 and shit, I could not be more excited. I was 134 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:38.559 a huge Western fan. I was already a big fan 135 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:40.799 of Billy the Kid. I was always more of a 136 00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:44.360 wider doc holiday guy, but I still loved the Billy 137 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:47.600 of the Kid to mythos, and here was like a 138 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:50.559 version for us. There was a whole lot of sort 139 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:53.679 of in the nineteen eighties. I remember thinking the same 140 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:56.440 thing about Twilight Zone eighty five when it came out, like, wow, 141 00:08:56.440 --> 00:08:59.440 they're really pitching it toward us. This is it is 142 00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:03.440 a rehamann of like the Twilight Zone, but in a 143 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:06.240 modern context. And now here's an attempt at a Western 144 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:07.919 and we're going to get it into modern context with 145 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:09.840 modern actors. So I was very excited to see it. 146 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:12.759 And then, of course, as you said, there are problems 147 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:14.919 with this movie, the main one being the direction. The 148 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:19.080 main I can't think of a better example than going 149 00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:23.240 from that trailer, which was nothing but pure excitement to 150 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:29.080 the credit sequence of this film. This solarized version, where 151 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:34.120 the fucking music is the as bad as the direction 152 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:37.279 is of this movie, is as historically inaccurate as the 153 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:40.080 movie can be. In some places, the most unforgivable thing 154 00:09:40.120 --> 00:09:42.600 going on in this movie is the fucking music, which 155 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:45.919 sounds like, I don't know, like nine O two one zero, 156 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:48.279 kind of twenty one jump street. 157 00:09:48.039 --> 00:10:13.320 Level, like airn aarn aar Hey, Look it's Billy the Kid. 158 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:17.440 That's another big tick for Young Guns two, because by 159 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:21.879 Young Guns two you have Alan Silvestri doing the soundtrack. 160 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:24.080 There's just so much more. I mean, I know we're 161 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:26.679 here to talk about Young Guns, but that's one thing 162 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:28.759 that's one big knock against this. Let me ask you 163 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:32.840 a quick question, because you said unforgivable. When did Unforgiven 164 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:35.320 come out in relation to this. 165 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:36.879 In nineteen ninety two ninety three? 166 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:39.480 Okay, so it was quite a few years after this. 167 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.039 I didn't know if there was any friction between those 168 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:46.039 two movies, but I guess they came out so far 169 00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:48.840 away from each other that there was no impact whatsoever. 170 00:10:49.279 --> 00:10:52.279 But yeah, the music is very eighties, it's very nine 171 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:54.440 O two one zero. It makes everything, I think, feel 172 00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:57.399 a little bit smaller to me, because when you have 173 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:01.120 a real orchestral score or something that's real Western sounding, 174 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:04.799 it really lifts like any good music should in a movie, 175 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:08.159 and this just kind of lets it down in my opinion. 176 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:11.120 It's not as Walt's Wall as that. In fact, there's 177 00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:14.919 less music in the picture than I remembered, but when 178 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:17.399 it's there, it calls attention to itself in a very 179 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:18.080 negative way. 180 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:20.039 Yeah, And that was when I was taking away from 181 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:24.679 it too, Like I appreciated the moments without any music 182 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:28.679 or source music because it didn't have the Reek of 183 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.240 the twentieth century, not just the Reek of the twentieth centuries, 184 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:33.960 just not the Reek of anachronism, but the Reek of 185 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:37.840 nineteen eighty eight. Here I am. Aren't I doing a 186 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:42.200 clever job here at my job writing for movies. That's 187 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:42.879 what it fails. 188 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:43.039 Like. 189 00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:46.600 Yeah. Even Blaze of Glory, as cheesy as it might be, 190 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:50.799 a fit, was it fit? And it was so it 191 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:53.919 was so exciting. It was such a great teaser for 192 00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:57.200 young guns too, that video Ryan on TV, and it 193 00:11:57.240 --> 00:12:00.480 was just it was great. This to me is it 194 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.480 falls flat in a lot of different ways, but I 195 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:06.399 to sort of circle back, I one hundred percent agree 196 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:10.000 with you that Emilio Estevez is really good in this. 197 00:12:10.159 --> 00:12:14.600 There's something slightly, well not slightly, there's something unhinged about 198 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:18.279 his performance that I think is just perfect for the 199 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:22.120 character and the way that everybody reacts to him. The 200 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:24.519 gang in this handed Young Guns too. He's more of 201 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:27.679 he's kind of more of a of a nuisance at times, 202 00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:30.440 and more of like they really don't like him. I mean, 203 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:32.519 they're a gang and they support each other, but at 204 00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:34.679 the end of the day, he's the one putting them 205 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:39.159 in danger more often than not, and Estevez plays that beautifully. 206 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:40.559 I love his performance. 207 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:43.879 I don't know if this is the most historically accurate 208 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:48.080 portrayal of Billy the Kid, but it is my favorite 209 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:51.879 portrayal of Billy the Kid for those reasons. He seems 210 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:55.360 really not all there. The character of Dirty Steve, played 211 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:58.360 by Derma mulroney has this running joke of like he's 212 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:02.639 not all there. He's actually not all there. He's a 213 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:06.279 troubling character, and the fact that he's as charming as 214 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:09.639 he is while doing those things is because of Emiliostivius. 215 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:12.639 I think if you had a lesser actor, there a 216 00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:15.480 grubbier version, like if Dermot Mulroney, let's say, had been 217 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.799 playing Billy the Kid dressed as he was as Dirty Steve, 218 00:13:19.840 --> 00:13:21.919 he would be unbearable as a character. 219 00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:25.120 Yeah, he's make no mistake. Billy the Kid is the 220 00:13:25.120 --> 00:13:28.440 one who sets the plot in motion. Really, he's the 221 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.919 one that gets who starts all the trouble to begin with, 222 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:34.879 they've been deputized. Well do we want to get into 223 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:35.159 the story. 224 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:37.879 Okay, Look, here's the thing. The Lincoln County War, such 225 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:41.399 as it is in Lincoln County in New Mexico, there 226 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:47.279 had been for at least a generation a group of ranchers, farmers, Irish, 227 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:52.559 the Murphy's and what was the other fucking hold on 228 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:58.159 keep forgetting Lincoln County? Well, Lincoln can't the regulator's baby. 229 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:02.360 Who cares William Brady? Oh, I know, we're blah blah blah. Anyway, 230 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:07.320 So basically it was the Murphy conglomerate. Like like, they 231 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:10.440 had herds of cattle and they had a store. So 232 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:13.480 not only were they raising cattle and raising money that way, 233 00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:15.600 but they were selling goods to all of the people. 234 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:19.840 And then an English fellas shows up named Tunstall, and 235 00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:23.399 he's backed by a local other irishman named Alex McSween. 236 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.519 And they proposed that they're going to have their own 237 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:28.559 heads of cattle and they're going to have their own store, 238 00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:32.919 and half the people, half the surrounding ranchers and folk, 239 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:35.919 side with the Irish, half side with the English. The 240 00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:39.399 ones that side with the English include young William Bonnie 241 00:14:39.440 --> 00:14:43.960 who is Billy the Kid. Also Josiah doc Skurlock, Jose Chavez. 242 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:47.240 These are all real people, like Vic Charlie Bowdrey, also 243 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:51.240 Dirty Steve, he's one of them. Interestingly, you know John Tunstall, 244 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:53.360 the Englishman was twenty four years old. 245 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:56.799 I learned that after the fact. But what is a 246 00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:59.399 tern Stam must be fifty if. 247 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:02.240 He's a day exactly, I believe he's forty nine fifty 248 00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:04.799 years old. So yeah, but you know that's okay because 249 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:07.720 what ends up happening is here Fusco script I think 250 00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:11.679 is incredibly clever in that it reduces everything down to 251 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:15.240 sort of signs and signifiers, almost like each of these 252 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:18.559 guys were like little independent outfits that were behind each other, 253 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:21.799 and instead he turns them all into a group of 254 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:28.440 street urchins being raised by the Fagan like, yeah, the JT. 255 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:33.360 Tunstall or J. H. Tunstall, Yeah and sorry, go ahead. 256 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:37.080 So no so so William Bonnie's one is just a 257 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:38.840 kid on the run. He gets taken in by this 258 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:42.759 group of na'er do wells who were basically the enforcers 259 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:46.960 around Tunstall's ranch. Anytime there's trouble. These guys take care 260 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:52.080 of for him and basically they look that it's the 261 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:54.559 two biggest kids on the block. Eventually they're going to 262 00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:57.799 come to blows. But unfortunately they bring the law into it. 263 00:15:57.879 --> 00:16:01.200 So the Murphy people try to server warrant, but it 264 00:16:01.320 --> 00:16:04.600 is just really an assassination, which in turn gets through 265 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:07.679 the regulators all deputized as a posse to go serve 266 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.919 a warrant themselves. But it probably doesn't go down exactly 267 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:12.919 the way it goes down here. But like I said, 268 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:17.600 the script is combining and compacting events in the movie. 269 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:20.679 But in the movie what happens is Billy just starts 270 00:16:20.679 --> 00:16:21.679 fucking shooting people. 271 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:25.240 Yeah, they've been deputized, it's all going to be above board. 272 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:28.840 They're going to seek out because Murphy has everybody in 273 00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:31.960 his back pocket, he has the law, and they've been 274 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:35.320 deputized to find all the men responsible for this killing 275 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:38.799 of John Tunstall, and instead of doing this, serving the 276 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:42.679 warrants and bringing them into jail, they lose Canon. Billy 277 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:48.519 just kills everybody and he doesn't stop like their deputies 278 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:52.919 for a while, and it becomes a rampage essentially, and 279 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:56.320 then it escalates to the point where the US Army 280 00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:00.919 has taken an interest in their exploits and everybody is 281 00:17:00.960 --> 00:17:04.279 after him. Bounty hunters are after the gang, Murphy's men 282 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.799 are after the gang, the army, and it just that's 283 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:12.240 essentially the movie. It's just all of these escalating gun 284 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:17.160 fights and people coming after the regulators until essentially they 285 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:19.039 have no choice. They're hold up in a house and 286 00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:22.319 they have no choice but to basically have their last stand. 287 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.559 But let me ask you a question, botherm alone, what 288 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:28.599 do you make of we talked about Terrence Stamp playing 289 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:32.119 John Tunstall. What do you make of Terrence Stamp's performance? 290 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:33.039 I'm really curious. 291 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:35.480 I feel like this is a loaded question that their part, 292 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:38.880 But I love his performance here. It's it might be 293 00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:41.480 it's not my favorite performance of this because there's so 294 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:45.160 many great performances throughout a fucking amazing career, but it's 295 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:49.279 certainly for me. My first experience with I'm sure like 296 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:52.480 you with Terence Stamp was General Zod, so he was 297 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:57.000 the most evil person in the world. My second introduction 298 00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:59.680 to Terrence Stamp was this film, where he was the 299 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:04.440 most fatherly. So I love his performance, Sarah, sure, and 300 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:04.799 I don't. 301 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:07.359 I'm not presenting it as a loaded question because I 302 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.839 love I strike that I adore Terence Stamp like you. 303 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:14.559 General Zod was my first exposure I was. I'm not 304 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:17.200 ashamed to say that I was scared of him as 305 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:20.960 a child because he was a really scary dude in 306 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.880 that movie. I mean, I never watched any of the 307 00:18:23.960 --> 00:18:26.960 old English movies that he did, Like, I didn't have 308 00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:29.000 any real exposure to him, and this was probably the 309 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:33.480 second time I saw him. I he's great, but what 310 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:38.119 I couldn't help thinking is that there's something otherworldly about 311 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:40.839 his performance in this something that I couldn't quite put 312 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:45.960 my finger on. He almost seems above everything and anyone 313 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:49.079 else in the picture. There's something kind of I don't 314 00:18:49.079 --> 00:18:52.200 know what's the word, just sort of a loof, not 315 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:56.720 a loof, that's something a right word, huh. Saintly not saintly, 316 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:02.880 just just something untouchable. Yeah, just just sort of ethereal. 317 00:19:02.640 --> 00:19:04.759 I guess seem to just sort of he just says, 318 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.839 just does seem to float from scene to scene, dispensing 319 00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:13.039 sage advice and calming everybody down. Even when there's a 320 00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:16.880 moment of violence. It isn't He's just very calm. And 321 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:20.839 then let's Casey Schamasco step in do what he does 322 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.319 and then continue to calm everybody back down. 323 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:26.240 Yeah. I like this is not to say that it's 324 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:29.960 a bad performance. I think it's fantastic, but I did 325 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:32.480 my memory of it was a little different watching it now, 326 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:34.440 I was like, oh, that's interesting. He made a lot 327 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:38.119 of interesting choices that I thought suits him. That's who 328 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:42.359 he is. But but yeah, he's very paternal. He's great 329 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:44.400 as John Tunsta willdn't get me wrong, but I just 330 00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:48.720 found his performance a little bit arm's length. I guess, 331 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:50.240 for lack of a better phrase. 332 00:19:50.200 --> 00:19:52.680 I could see that the other problem with this movie. 333 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:54.480 I just want to get the problems with the movie 334 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:56.240 out of the way, because there's so much that you 335 00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:58.920 like about this film, and I don't want to dwell 336 00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:02.559 on the negative. But look, whoever put the If Christopher 337 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:07.640 Kine put this cast together, brava, okay, but he should 338 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:13.720 not have directed this movie hiring that. Hiring Anthony Marinelli 339 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:17.119 to do the score alone should have disqualified him as 340 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:18.440 a director of this film. 341 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:18.599 Now. 342 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:21.759 I know he had previously worked with Estevez on That 343 00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:24.200 Was Then This Is Now. He directed that se hint 344 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:27.240 and adaptation, and I believe Emilia Westvez wroped, so I 345 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:29.640 can see them wanting to work together again. But he's 346 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:32.240 out of his mind if he thinks this guy was 347 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.799 right for a Western. We're gonna keep mentioning Young Guns 348 00:20:35.839 --> 00:20:39.079 Too in its superiority in every way. But Jeff Murphy 349 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.240 is a fucking awesome action director and should have if 350 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:44.559 they had him here for this one, Holy shit, and 351 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:47.000 we would be talking about this as one of the 352 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.519 greatest Bond Billy the Kid movies. 353 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:53.799 The fact is that Emilio Estevez himself was not entirely 354 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:58.240 happy with Young Guns. He deliberately set out with John 355 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:02.240 Fusco to make a better movie with Young Guns Too, 356 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:05.519 and it's hard to argue that it's not better and 357 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:10.279 almost every single way to this, oh my god, not to. 358 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:12.039 Say if that's their if that was their goal, they 359 00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:16.160 succeeded across the board. It's like it's night and dead again. 360 00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:18.039 I'm not saying that this is a bad movie. I 361 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:21.839 like this movie. It's just that there are fucking fundamental 362 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:24.400 problems that could have been avoided very easily. 363 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:28.920 Totally and like you, I think it all begins and 364 00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:33.799 ends with the direction just seems it lacks anything resembling 365 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:39.119 like dynamics. It all seems rather flat and dour isn't 366 00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:42.119 the word, But it's not exciting. A lot of it isn't. 367 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:45.759 The excitement is on the page, but it's not reflected 368 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:49.000 in how the movie is photographed, how that how it 369 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:52.920 all is depicted. I mean there's I love the story. 370 00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:55.559 I think the direction leaves a lot to be desired. 371 00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:58.359 It just seems to kind of just sit there. The 372 00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:02.880 action is and all that interesting to me. It's not 373 00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:07.240 really shot. The gunfights aren't shot that interesting lead to me, 374 00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:10.359 it's sometimes hard to know exactly what's happening. 375 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:15.039 Some of the character scenes work despite the rest of 376 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:17.400 the direction in the movie. I think like some of 377 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:20.759 the sequences are fun, like the Peyote sequence I thought 378 00:22:20.920 --> 00:22:25.039 is photographed really well, and some of the interactions between 379 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:29.640 Doc and the young lady. He's wooing like all that stuff. 380 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:32.279 In fact, I was about to praise the direction, but 381 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:33.680 I'm not going to praise the direction because it turns 382 00:22:33.720 --> 00:22:35.640 out it's another script thing and I only noticed it 383 00:22:35.799 --> 00:22:38.599 really this time around. About Doc Skurlock in this movie, 384 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:43.759 but the moment where they allow him to react after 385 00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:47.039 getting blood splattered on his face after Billy kills one 386 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:49.720 of their own in front of him, that scene is 387 00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:50.480 well directed. 388 00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:55.119 I love Keifer Sutherland in this he next to Emilieuistevez. 389 00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:59.200 He's probably my favorite of the regulators. I just think 390 00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:03.000 he because I think the character is allowed to be interesting. 391 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:06.640 Not to say that Dirty Steve and Charlie don't have 392 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:11.039 their own moments, and obviously Chavezy Chavez, but I just 393 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:16.640 think Key for Sutherland gives a very grounded performance. He's 394 00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:21.440 allowed to react a lot. He often you see Billy's 395 00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:26.240 misdeeds through Doc's eyes, and I think that's in a sense, 396 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:28.440 it's almost like an audience proxy. Like that scene you 397 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:30.400 talk about. That's one of my favorite moments in the 398 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.759 whole movie, where Billy shoots McCluskey in the head because 399 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:36.000 he believes that he's a spy. For the Murphy Gang. 400 00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:40.039 And it's such a great reaction because there's a horror 401 00:23:40.680 --> 00:23:43.839