1 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast for Tuesday, 2 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,920 August twenty sixth, twenty twenty five. My name is Matthew Watkins, 3 00:00:27,039 --> 00:00:30,199 editor in chief of the Texas Tribune. And you know, 4 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:35,799 a hunch tells me Eleanor that this could possibly be 5 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:41,880 our last trib cast recorded of twenty twenty five, that is, 6 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,560 during a legislative session. 7 00:00:44,799 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 2: I cannot believe you would say that and curse us 8 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,479 like this. I just want you to know that, like, 9 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:55,280 come Christmas, when we're still doing this, I will pull 10 00:00:55,359 --> 00:00:59,320 back this quote and throw this in your face. Let's say, 11 00:00:59,479 --> 00:01:03,520 I hope greatly that this is the last trip cast 12 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,079 we are doing during a special session. 13 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,599 Speaker 1: This, of course, is because lawmakers have passed the maps, 14 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,040 three districting maps, the topic of the trip cast for 15 00:01:14,159 --> 00:01:18,400 the past to maybe three weeks, in the middle of 16 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:24,359 the night Saturday morning, Friday night, staving off a Democratic filibuster, 17 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,519 which you know, we can talk about the rules, we 18 00:01:27,519 --> 00:01:29,480 can talk about all that, but I think those of 19 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,840 us who were expecting to have to work through the 20 00:01:32,879 --> 00:01:35,719 weekend were greatly relieved about. 21 00:01:35,719 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 2: Some of us who were so this is funny. Actually, 22 00:01:38,079 --> 00:01:40,159 I was on the was supposed to be on the 23 00:01:40,239 --> 00:01:44,560 five am to nine am filibuster shift, and I went 24 00:01:44,599 --> 00:01:46,319 to bed. My whole plan right was like, go to 25 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,439 bed at nine pm on Friday night because I have 26 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:50,359 to be up at five am. So at midnight I 27 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,120 go to bed. I went to bed. 28 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:53,439 Speaker 3: I'm not joking. 29 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,439 Speaker 2: What must have been three minutes before they said you 30 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:59,480 cannot fill a Buster still woke up at four forty 31 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,680 five am, saw that they had designed out Philbuster, went 32 00:02:02,719 --> 00:02:04,599 back to sleep, and then woke up at nine am like, 33 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,359 oh god, I hope that wasn't a dream. And I 34 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,400 didn't go back to sleep, and everyone's like, where is 35 00:02:10,439 --> 00:02:14,800 Eleanor anyway? So the timing was terrible, but the you know, 36 00:02:15,159 --> 00:02:17,680 my sleep debt appreciated it. 37 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,159 Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you were able to go back to sleep. 38 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:22,639 I've reached the age of my life where if I 39 00:02:22,719 --> 00:02:25,520 wake up, I'm it's it's over for me. 40 00:02:25,719 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, four forty five is pretty like I can get back. 41 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:29,879 I can get back to sleep. I can make it happen. 42 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, very good that voice. 43 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:32,199 Speaker 3: Of course. 44 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: Eleanor klivanoff law and politics reporter for the Text Tribune. 45 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,960 I will eventually get that correct. 46 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:42,599 Speaker 3: You'll create a editor in chief. 47 00:02:43,039 --> 00:02:47,159 Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I love that you think I actually have 48 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:48,479 that much power and it's. 49 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,199 Speaker 3: Not I did cook up the name myself. 50 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's very good. We are joined this week 51 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,639 by climate reporter I do. I got that one easily, 52 00:02:56,719 --> 00:03:00,159 Emily fox Hall, joining us from what is not ary 53 00:03:00,199 --> 00:03:02,000 Potter closet in Houston. 54 00:03:02,479 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 4: Hello, Emily, Hi, thank you for having me. 55 00:03:07,319 --> 00:03:10,159 Speaker 1: So Yeah, we, like I said, we I'm going to 56 00:03:10,199 --> 00:03:14,599 finish my thought here. The maps have passed. They are 57 00:03:14,599 --> 00:03:18,280 on their way to governor rabbits desk. Now, we have 58 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:23,159 a text legislature that is very tired, that is very 59 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:24,960 sick of being in Austin. 60 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 3: Very angry with each other. 61 00:03:26,039 --> 00:03:28,400 Speaker 1: Very angry with each other. And I think, you know, 62 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,800 we got a three day weekend coming up. I think 63 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:33,400 they're going to want to try to get this done 64 00:03:33,599 --> 00:03:37,520 and move on and and and and finish their work 65 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:37,960 for the year. 66 00:03:38,439 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 3: Is what Dustin Burrough said. We're going to get this 67 00:03:40,319 --> 00:03:41,280 thing done by Labor Day. 68 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. 69 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:44,919 Speaker 3: And so the other big priority left. 70 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: To do is flooding, which is why Emily is here. 71 00:03:49,639 --> 00:03:56,719 Emily has been watching very long and emotional committee hearings 72 00:03:56,759 --> 00:04:00,840 over this measure, over over you know, response to the floods. 73 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,840 She has been writing about the various legislative responses to 74 00:04:05,919 --> 00:04:07,960 those floods, and that is what we are going to 75 00:04:08,039 --> 00:04:12,039 talk about today, Emily, I want to start by just 76 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:16,680 you know, I think you know, committee hearings are often 77 00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:21,600 dry affairs. You know, you get a few bills a 78 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,680 year that have the kind of emotional kind of testimony 79 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,879 that happens. This one was a particular one. We saw families, 80 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:34,399 particularly from Camp Mystic, coming and talking to lawmakers. Lawmakers 81 00:04:34,439 --> 00:04:37,160 being I think like pretty blunt and frank and sometimes 82 00:04:37,199 --> 00:04:40,920 even kind of apologizing for their own kind of mistakes 83 00:04:40,959 --> 00:04:43,480 and past things that happen. Can you just kind of 84 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,360 tell us a little bit about what you've seen, particularly 85 00:04:46,399 --> 00:04:50,720 from those hearings in recent days and weeks, as lawmakers 86 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,000 come together and try to, you know, prevent something like 87 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,000 this from happening again. 88 00:04:55,319 --> 00:04:59,879 Speaker 4: They have been definitely very emotional. It's interesting just thinking back, 89 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,519 I feel like so much has happened. It's almost been 90 00:05:03,519 --> 00:05:06,040 two months since the floods, so it's really felt like 91 00:05:06,079 --> 00:05:09,600 a whirlwind of these hearings. But if we go back 92 00:05:09,639 --> 00:05:12,680 to the start, there were special committees at appointed in 93 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,279 both the House and the Senate to look at flooding 94 00:05:15,319 --> 00:05:18,680 issues and disaster issues, and the first sort of like 95 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,879 marathon hearing they held together was really focused on the 96 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,399 disaster response. So nim Kid was kind of like the 97 00:05:27,439 --> 00:05:29,079 star of the show that day. 98 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,759 Speaker 1: He's the head of emergency management for the state. Good yeah, 99 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:34,160 thank you. 100 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 4: He just sort of went through like a litany of issues. 101 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,800 It was like almost overwhelming how many things had gone wrong. 102 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,600 So just to give you a few examples, he went 103 00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:52,199 over how emergency management coordinators who can help county judges 104 00:05:52,319 --> 00:05:56,839 or mayors in emergencies, they don't have any licensing requirements 105 00:05:56,879 --> 00:05:59,839 in the state. He also went through a bunch of 106 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,199 problems that happened with you know, so many people died 107 00:06:03,759 --> 00:06:08,120 in this disaster that the Justices of the peace and 108 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,040 the medical examiners who came into help sounded like they 109 00:06:11,079 --> 00:06:16,319 had some issues keeping first deciding when autopsies were really needed, 110 00:06:16,439 --> 00:06:21,519 and then second, just like managing so many bodies, like 111 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,160 multiple family members from within the same family died and 112 00:06:25,199 --> 00:06:28,279 the bodies got sent to different places, which made it 113 00:06:28,319 --> 00:06:32,040 harder on the families trying to recover. So anyway, all 114 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,240 to say, you know, that first hearing was sort of 115 00:06:34,319 --> 00:06:37,879 like you could see lawmakers getting frustrated with these sort 116 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:45,720 of repeat problems and that. Yeah, so that kind of 117 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:50,879 culminated in later that day some discussion two of the 118 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,800 local river authority not pursuing grand funding, and there was 119 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,160 sort of an outburst by lawmakers at that moment too, 120 00:06:58,199 --> 00:06:59,839 at the end of what had already been a really 121 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,800 long day with a lot of issues over frustration with 122 00:07:03,519 --> 00:07:06,120 you know, they had an opportunity, in the lawmaker's view, 123 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,279 to put these sirens up and didn't move ahead with it. 124 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,480 So we went from that all the way to more 125 00:07:12,519 --> 00:07:16,639 recently when the Camp Mystic family spoke, and as you mentioned, 126 00:07:16,639 --> 00:07:21,240 it was just hugely emotional with people walking through, you know, 127 00:07:21,319 --> 00:07:25,720 the grief of losing children, kind of being haunted by 128 00:07:25,759 --> 00:07:30,519 these nightmares of imagining what those last minutes were like 129 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:36,160 for these little girls as the floodwaters rose while they 130 00:07:36,199 --> 00:07:41,040 were in their cabins. And I also was just struck 131 00:07:41,079 --> 00:07:46,240 in that hearing by not only the grief but also 132 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:51,439 like the strength these parents were really pushing for change 133 00:07:51,639 --> 00:07:54,920 and not asking anyone, you know, to like feel sorry 134 00:07:54,959 --> 00:07:59,439 for them, but asking for these bills to make camp safer. 135 00:08:00,879 --> 00:08:05,000 So it was both very sad but also a very 136 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:09,199 like admirable effort. You know, they were really focused on 137 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:13,000 making change in that one, and you could see lawmakers 138 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,600 you know again kind of these frustration with errors that 139 00:08:18,439 --> 00:08:20,920 have sort of long been known as problems in this state. 140 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:25,360 But also many of them were moved, you know, lawmakers 141 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,959 removed tears. So it was certainly a heavy feeling watching those. 142 00:08:30,319 --> 00:08:31,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want I want to go back to the 143 00:08:31,839 --> 00:08:34,320 first part. I think we should talk about the camp 144 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,879 mistic families and everything there. But going back to your 145 00:08:36,879 --> 00:08:38,679 first kind of statement, I mean, something that has stood 146 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,799 out to me from the beginning here was the sort 147 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:50,679 of lack of professional expectations for these particularly like more 148 00:08:50,759 --> 00:08:54,919 rural small town officials, whether that's you know, the emergency 149 00:08:54,919 --> 00:08:57,919 management coordinators or you know, people going out for jogs 150 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:59,840 in the middle of the night when like flooding has 151 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,159 already started and everything like that. In some ways, maybe 152 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:12,440 it almost felt like, uh, you know, underresourced local governments 153 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:17,320 not fully comprehending the scope of their responsibilities or what 154 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:23,039 needed to be done in order to keep their constituents 155 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:28,840 or people visiting their communities safe. I'm curious, you know 156 00:09:28,919 --> 00:09:31,200 you heard all that, you heard that frustration from nim Kid, 157 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:33,919 who of course is a professional and who has dealt 158 00:09:33,919 --> 00:09:39,600 with you know, if not dozens, then at probably at 159 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,240 least a dozen like major catastrophes in the state for 160 00:09:42,279 --> 00:09:45,759 a long time. But you know, he can't be deploying 161 00:09:45,919 --> 00:09:49,360 everywhere across the state every moment everything comes up. They're 162 00:09:49,399 --> 00:09:52,000 you know, usually coming in after the terrible thing has 163 00:09:52,039 --> 00:09:55,440 already happened. I mean, did you since any kind of 164 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,600 effort or intention by lawmaker to kind of change that 165 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,200 in terms of giving those local entities the infrastructure needed, 166 00:10:06,279 --> 00:10:11,679 training needed, or whatever else it is to make them 167 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,120 be more prepared for future events like this. 168 00:10:15,039 --> 00:10:17,279 Speaker 4: That's definitely a big piece of the problem. I spoke 169 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,559 to one expert early on who said, the state Emergency 170 00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:24,840 Department really has like relatively a good reputation in the country, 171 00:10:24,919 --> 00:10:28,639 and as you said, they are professional, they're somewhat well funded. 172 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,960 And so this woman was telling me often these local 173 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,919 governments can get kind of lost that people don't realize 174 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,720 just how much the local governments are struggling in disasters 175 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,639 because the state comes in so quickly. But in this case, 176 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,960 you know, the disaster really happened over a matter of hours. 177 00:10:46,159 --> 00:10:49,240 They call it flash flooding for a reason, and so 178 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,639 you see the gaps in the local response very clearly 179 00:10:52,759 --> 00:10:57,399 in this case. The one hearing we didn't talk about 180 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,279 was the one that was in Kirk County that was 181 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,440 you know, sort of like a mounting sense of anger 182 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:09,080 with the way the local authorities, you know, essentially just 183 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,360 weren't awake. The county judge who's supposed to be responsible 184 00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:18,039 for emergency scenarios was asleep at another home, you know, 185 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,360 at a lake home that they have, and the county 186 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,480 emergency management coordinator was sick and also asleep as these 187 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:31,120 floodwaters were rising. So that's clearly been established as part 188 00:11:31,159 --> 00:11:37,399 of the issue here. But the changes the lawmakers have 189 00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:39,559 made is to put in now they're going to have 190 00:11:39,639 --> 00:11:44,480 licensing requirements under these proposed bills for emergency management coordinators, 191 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,440 so that will come with some training, and they're trying 192 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,360 to put in place kind of like a chain of 193 00:11:50,399 --> 00:11:54,120 command where if the county judge isn't awake or the 194 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:59,080 emergency management isn't awake, here's who the responsibility will fall to. 195 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,799 I remember hearing though, it's like if you're going to 196 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,480 train the emergency management coordinator, like there seem to be 197 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,080 some questions about who in the chain of command is 198 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,559 actually going to get the training right, Like if you 199 00:12:11,639 --> 00:12:14,039 go down the chain and that person doesn't understand what's 200 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,440 going on, that feels like a gap I've been interested in. 201 00:12:18,519 --> 00:12:20,399 Speaker 3: But like I. 202 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 2: Assume like most of these people, like you know, you 203 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,799 go decades, maybe your entire career as like a county judge, 204 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,759 and you never have a disaster like this, right, So, 205 00:12:29,799 --> 00:12:31,679 like I understand sort of on a human level, how 206 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,639 easy it is to get kind of complacent and to 207 00:12:33,639 --> 00:12:36,279 think like, yeah, I'm the guy that like if there's 208 00:12:36,279 --> 00:12:38,360 a disaster, they will call, But like that doesn't mean 209 00:12:38,399 --> 00:12:41,039 I can never go to my friend's lake house and 210 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:45,559 then this happens and you think like oh shit, basically, 211 00:12:45,879 --> 00:12:48,399 and so like it is it's interesting to me that 212 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,360 they like didn't have a chain of command of like 213 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:51,919 you know, I bet there were a lot of counties 214 00:12:51,919 --> 00:12:53,879 out there that weren't affected by flooding that now were 215 00:12:53,919 --> 00:12:56,519 like whose job was, Like if this was us, whose 216 00:12:56,639 --> 00:12:57,360 job is this? 217 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 3: And like it's interesting they're going to put that in 218 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:00,279 place now. 219 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 4: And there's so many compounding issues with this, right, I Mean, 220 00:13:06,279 --> 00:13:10,320 there's these questions of like do people understand the difference 221 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,480 between a flood watch and a flood warning? 222 00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 3: No, thank you. 223 00:13:15,639 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 2: We've talked about that on this song here with Yeah, 224 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,600 like right after it's like, I think it's one of 225 00:13:19,639 --> 00:13:22,600 those things like, you know, the weather people vastly overestimate 226 00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:25,200 how much people can keep that straight in their brains. 227 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And then these problems of just warning fatigue, 228 00:13:29,759 --> 00:13:32,720 like maybe some of these officials or some people who 229 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,080 were visiting saw the watch, but they didn't you know, 230 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:39,679 take action or necessarily prepare for it, because so many 231 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,120 times we get these watches and nothing, nothing happens. 232 00:13:45,039 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: How much is this response, particularly around emergency response. You've 233 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,159 written about a few different bills, Centate Bill two, which 234 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,919 I think pertains more to the justices of peace and 235 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:55,960 how to handle the bodies that you already mentioned, the 236 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,440 training program for them, Housepeled three creating a Texas inter 237 00:13:59,519 --> 00:14:04,399 Operability Council to kind of help develop strategic plans and 238 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:09,399 communication and everything like that. Some other bills related to 239 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,840 that as well. How much of this response, particularly around 240 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:20,240 emergency preparedness for local governments, is addressing what Eleanor just 241 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,919 talked about, where it's like sure in Kerr County. There's 242 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,639 a flood, and you could be worried about that, but 243 00:14:25,879 --> 00:14:28,720 you know, in the Panhandle or on the Gulf Coast 244 00:14:28,799 --> 00:14:32,039 or you know, it's it could be something that we're 245 00:14:32,039 --> 00:14:34,720 not already talking about anymore. Like, do you think that 246 00:14:34,799 --> 00:14:38,759 the actions that are being taken by this legislature in 247 00:14:38,799 --> 00:14:41,360 response to this are going to help the next thing 248 00:14:41,799 --> 00:14:44,039 that comes along that we're not talking about right now, 249 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:44,480 a flood? 250 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 3: Right? 251 00:14:44,799 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: Yeah? 252 00:14:45,639 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, a lot of the legislation looks really reactive to me. 253 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,879 You know, the bills that you mentioned SB two with 254 00:14:55,039 --> 00:14:58,519 the trainings and the dealing with the bodies, a lot 255 00:14:58,559 --> 00:15:00,720 of that just came straight out of the hearing from 256 00:15:00,799 --> 00:15:05,279 what nim Kid told lawmakers was a problem. The other 257 00:15:05,399 --> 00:15:08,720 big piece of legislation we haven't mentioned yet was SB three, 258 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:12,279 which is the bill that's going to require sirens in 259 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,919 certain parts of the Hill Country, and that's very focused 260 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:19,159 on this area where the disaster occurred. You know, it's 261 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:22,799 focused on flash flood Alley specifically, and we'll set aside 262 00:15:23,919 --> 00:15:27,600 if it passes, some money to fund these required siren 263 00:15:27,679 --> 00:15:32,720 and early notification systems. So yeah, I think this point 264 00:15:32,759 --> 00:15:35,519 you raise is something I've been thinking a lot about 265 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:40,000 the last two months. Because you all know I live 266 00:15:40,039 --> 00:15:44,440 in Houston. I've covered so many hurricanes. Sometimes as a reporter, 267 00:15:44,559 --> 00:15:47,480 I feel like I'm just going from one disaster to 268 00:15:47,559 --> 00:15:50,919 the next, and you see kind of this cycle, right, 269 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,519 It's like this grief and mourning and shock at what happened. 270 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,080 There's this immediate reaction to trying to fix the very 271 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,679 specific problem, and then there's this recovery which we try 272 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,080 to pay attention to, but often we are just moving 273 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:08,559 on to the next thing. So I think I'm certainly 274 00:16:08,559 --> 00:16:11,720 hoping to do some more reporting looking at how there 275 00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:15,720 are opportunities. The state has had to be more forward looking, 276 00:16:15,879 --> 00:16:19,120 and a big part of this legislation so far that 277 00:16:19,159 --> 00:16:23,639 I've seen is pretty reactive to this specific issue. But 278 00:16:24,159 --> 00:16:27,399 there's certainly things that I think they expect to help 279 00:16:27,399 --> 00:16:30,759 make emergency response better. There's some measures in the camp 280 00:16:30,799 --> 00:16:34,279 safety bills that the Mystic Parents have pushed that will 281 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,639 make camps, you know, trying to get cabins out of 282 00:16:38,679 --> 00:16:41,240 the floodplane will help keep people out of harm's way 283 00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:44,320 in the future. And there is some money that's being 284 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:47,159 set aside to improve weather forecasting, you know, so a 285 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,639 lot of environmental groups have really supported that one as 286 00:16:50,799 --> 00:16:56,039 a pretty forward looking at a bill. But of course 287 00:16:56,039 --> 00:16:58,440 you're right, every disaster is different, every part of the 288 00:16:58,519 --> 00:17:02,399 state faces different disasters, and you know, kind of like 289 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,079 these big discussions, for example, on what flood plain development 290 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:09,480 should look like, those really haven't happened that I've heard 291 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:11,279 in these meetings so far. 292 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:14,799 Speaker 2: Because it is interesting that like the bill that I 293 00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:16,880 think got a lot of spotlight that didn't pass during 294 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,599 the regular session was actually was being carried by Ken 295 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,880 King in part because as a response to the Panhandle wildfires. 296 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,440 And it's like, you know, I mean, there's obvious a 297 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,960 lot of discussion about whether or not that well, actually, I think 298 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,519 it's clear that that would not have been in place 299 00:17:29,559 --> 00:17:30,079 in time to. 300 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:30,519 Speaker 3: Help with this. 301 00:17:30,759 --> 00:17:33,039 Speaker 2: But it's like, like you said, we're just moving from 302 00:17:33,079 --> 00:17:36,440 like one disaster to the next of like wildfire response, 303 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,759 Like then the windows between them are becoming narrower and narrower. 304 00:17:41,279 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: You mentioned the camp Safety Bill. Let's talk a little 305 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,440 bit about that and that committee hearing. I want to 306 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,759 talk a little bit about the parents first. I mean, 307 00:17:48,799 --> 00:17:51,359 you mentioned there's a lot of bravery and of course 308 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,240 a ton of sadness I mean, one of the things 309 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,559 that has stuck with me is the picture that ran 310 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,279 at the top of one of your stories, right where 311 00:17:59,319 --> 00:18:04,200 you you see these families in the in the gallery 312 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,359 and just the pain on their faces. It like, there's 313 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,039 been very few things since those floods that have really 314 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,559 hit me as hard as that. Just how sad and 315 00:18:13,599 --> 00:18:16,400 how much human suffering there is, and how brave it 316 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,920 is to be going out and speaking about this, you know, 317 00:18:21,039 --> 00:18:23,640 when when the pain is so raw. Tell us a 318 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,279 little bit about just what you were hearing from parents, 319 00:18:27,319 --> 00:18:30,880 what lawmakers were hearing from parents in these hearings about, 320 00:18:31,559 --> 00:18:33,799 you know, how they're feeling and what they want to 321 00:18:33,799 --> 00:18:34,599 see coming out of this. 322 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:35,799 Speaker 5: Mm hmm. 323 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 4: It's an interesting one because it wasn't a part of 324 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,839 the first special session. These bills kind of came in 325 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,160 more recent weeks as the parents got organized and you know, 326 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,799 really pushed to get this as part of the agenda. 327 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:54,240 They saw there was like really a gap in kind 328 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:59,440 of comprehensive legislation. Looking at the camps where several dozen 329 00:18:59,519 --> 00:19:03,519 kids die to can't mistic you know. So, I don't 330 00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:06,599 know what struck me the most from the hearing with 331 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,480 the parents was the details like this dad talking about 332 00:19:10,519 --> 00:19:14,039 the countless hands of go fish and uno he played 333 00:19:14,079 --> 00:19:17,920 with his kid, the many pages of books they read 334 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,720 before he put her to sleep every night, and kind 335 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,519 of like this morning of the futures that their kids 336 00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:27,240 weren't going to get. You know, now we're in fall 337 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,440 almost and it's back to school time, and so parents 338 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:35,039 were remembering. You know, for one, it was thinking that 339 00:19:35,079 --> 00:19:36,759 their daughter was going to be there to hold the 340 00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:38,920 hand of the other kid as they went to school, 341 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,759 or the daughter who poured the bowl of cheerios for 342 00:19:42,839 --> 00:19:46,079 the younger child so they could get extra sleep, the 343 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,839 daughter who was supposed to be going to college moving 344 00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:52,960 into college right now. So a lot of it was 345 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,839 just kind of this raw emotion of you send your 346 00:19:55,880 --> 00:20:00,000 kid to camp what for many is like a generational experience, 347 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,000 and they think they're going to be having fun riding 348 00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:06,480 horses and shooting archery, and then, you know, one woman said, 349 00:20:06,559 --> 00:20:09,119 I never could I have dreamed that my kid was 350 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,400 going to come home in a in a coffin. So 351 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,319 it was sort of this grappling with guilt, like they 352 00:20:18,319 --> 00:20:20,839 felt like they should have protected their kids in some cases, 353 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,880 and they felt as parents that they let them down, 354 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,279 a grappling with grief and loss of the past and 355 00:20:28,319 --> 00:20:32,079 of the future, and then you know, a very forceful 356 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,000 call basically to say make this right. You know, don't 357 00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:39,720 let any parent be gripped by the trauma that we 358 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,160 are feeling right now. 359 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: And is would you say, the main focus of what 360 00:20:46,519 --> 00:20:49,000 they were asking for, the main focus of sort of 361 00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:52,400 where they were directing there for a lack of a 362 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,799 better term, blame for what happened, was the location of 363 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,519 the cabins in the floodplain. Is that what they're focus 364 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,400 was in terms of trying to enact change by showing 365 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,839 up at these hearings. 366 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,559 Speaker 4: Right, getting cabins out of the floodplane is a big piece. 367 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:14,240 Also the fact that, as they told the story, the plan, 368 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,880 the emergency plan for the kids was to stay in 369 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,119 the cabin, and several of them expressed the sentiment that 370 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:23,240 they raise their kids to follow rules and to follow orders, 371 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,759 and in this case doing so got them killed. So 372 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,359 these bills House Built one and Senate Bill one both 373 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:37,640 have components of requiring the camps to have these emergency 374 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:41,680 plans for what to do in the case of flooding. 375 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,480 You know, when do you evacuate and when do you 376 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,920 shelter in place? Because different you know, different disasters have 377 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,839 different requirements with them. And the Senate bill goes even 378 00:21:51,519 --> 00:21:54,039 further to say, you know, if there is a flash 379 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,640 flood warning and kids are in the floodplane, you need 380 00:21:58,680 --> 00:21:59,440 to move them out. 381 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:00,599 Speaker 3: No more. 382 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 4: Is this going to be a subjective question about whether 383 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:06,920 and what to do in the case of a warning, 384 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,440 but it will be required under that bill. 385 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:10,839 Speaker 2: Yeah. 386 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 3: I mean it's so like are the Texas munto a story? 387 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,319 Speaker 2: Looking at how like there was a similar disaster right 388 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,160 in the eighties and people died, children died because they 389 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,359 were evacuating. Like it seems like these camps, you know, 390 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,519 they're built on the water, they're built to like engage 391 00:22:27,559 --> 00:22:30,160 with the with the river and with the water. But 392 00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:33,400 are It's like a damned if you do, damned if 393 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,519 you don't sort of situation in terms of knowing how 394 00:22:35,519 --> 00:22:37,480 to and like putting so much of this on like teenagers, 395 00:22:37,519 --> 00:22:40,400 to know how to respond to get younger kids out 396 00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:45,640 is just like one of those things again like reactive. 397 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,880 But you look back and you think, like who could 398 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:49,839 have ever let this happen? Who could have ever let 399 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,519 this get to this point. 400 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: Right, And and that's where I think the the you know, 401 00:22:55,519 --> 00:22:58,720 failure of imagination kind of comes in, right of what 402 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,599 could happen and what do we react? How do we 403 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,160 react when it does happen? I mean, you know you, 404 00:23:04,599 --> 00:23:06,759 I'm sort of reading directly from your story here. But 405 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,440 House Bill one, which is the bill that particularly pertains 406 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,039 to camps, would require operators to develop emergency plans, including 407 00:23:14,079 --> 00:23:16,799 for disasters. They would have to be submitted by the state. 408 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:22,200 They would include information on when to shelter or evacuate, 409 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,160 and you know, campers need to know, like be taught 410 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:27,680 how to react to that. And then another one I 411 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,480 think is important. We talked a little about this in 412 00:23:29,519 --> 00:23:33,920 the immediate aftermath of just like putting evacuation routes on 413 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,519 the on the doors of the cabins, right of this 414 00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:38,680 is where you go to get to higher ground. Right, 415 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,839 If you're evacuating through a low lying area, that's going 416 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,200 to be dangerous. But if you can identify ahead of 417 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,920 time where you're going to be most safe from floodwaters, 418 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,559 even for a short period of time, that that can 419 00:23:50,599 --> 00:23:51,440 make a big difference. 420 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,559 Speaker 2: And sorry, would any of these bills and if you 421 00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:57,559 said this make it like, like, are we saying like 422 00:23:57,599 --> 00:24:00,200 you just can't put cabins in floodplains anymore? 423 00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:01,839 Speaker 3: I mean, are we going that far? 424 00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 4: Right? The state won't license a camp if they have 425 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,839 a cabin in okay, But the big caveat here is 426 00:24:10,079 --> 00:24:13,079 it's not going to apply to camps that are on lakes, 427 00:24:13,319 --> 00:24:16,559 so that would be you know, a camp like Camp Longhorn. 428 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,240 I think they're they're trying to make this very specifically 429 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:24,279 for camps that are along rivers, which is something I'm 430 00:24:24,319 --> 00:24:25,720 trying to understand. 431 00:24:25,519 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 2: More right, So it's sort of again very reactive. I mean, 432 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,319 I'm also curious how this. Like I was out in 433 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,039 Kerville right after the floods and like obviously like so 434 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:38,920 much attention correctly on these camps and just like the 435 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,640 horrors of what happened there. But you know, we also 436 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,960 saw like r V parks get washed away. We saw 437 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,079 these like a lot of other development in low lying 438 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,279 areas that also you know are like sometimes vacationers, but 439 00:24:50,319 --> 00:24:51,799 sometimes a lot of people I talk to were like 440 00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:54,079 vulnerable people who had an r V and thewhere else 441 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,119 to live or things like that. 442 00:24:55,599 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 3: Does any of this like address that? 443 00:25:00,319 --> 00:25:04,519 Speaker 4: Not that I have seen I mean, you know, insofar 444 00:25:04,599 --> 00:25:07,839 as the emergency response would address how you respond to 445 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:13,440 emergencies anywhere, but there anytime floodplain regulation has come up 446 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,960 in the hearings. You know, there was a moment I 447 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,440 think it was Senator Menendez who had said, you know, 448 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,559 wouldn't it be better if the kids will let me 449 00:25:25,599 --> 00:25:29,240 back this up. So before the camp bill came up, 450 00:25:29,319 --> 00:25:34,279 the plan was to require camps to evacuate kids from 451 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,960 cabins if they were in the floodplane and if that failed, 452 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,720 require the cabins to have a ladder so the kids 453 00:25:39,759 --> 00:25:43,160 could climb on the roof of the cabin if for 454 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,920 some reason the water started coming and they hadn't evacuated. 455 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,960 And I think it was Senator Menendez who said, you know, 456 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:50,599 wouldn't it be better for the cabins not to be 457 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,440 there in the first place. And Senator Perry said, you know, 458 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:00,400 something to the effects of like we're not gonna go 459 00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:03,039 down the road of floodplain regulation, that that has been 460 00:26:03,079 --> 00:26:05,119 discussed in the past, that if we take that up, 461 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,440 you know, all of Houston needs to be redesigned. So 462 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,039 kind of like that's just political resistance has poked up 463 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:16,359 time and again about looking holistically at floodplains, and I'm 464 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,480 curious to see if that's going to change at all 465 00:26:18,519 --> 00:26:21,119 in the next you know, six months to a year 466 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,359 as they continue to look at this. But it's definitely 467 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:31,359 sort of the big piece to me is these decisions 468 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,599 about where we build and how we build. But it's 469 00:26:33,599 --> 00:26:36,000 been explained to me it's like Texas is a property 470 00:26:36,079 --> 00:26:39,240 rights state. You know, there's a huge respect for letting 471 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,000 people make choices about how they use their property. So 472 00:26:43,799 --> 00:26:47,200 that seems to be sort of politically what's that play here? 473 00:26:47,799 --> 00:26:53,759 Speaker 1: It right? I mean, I think that's right. It bears 474 00:26:53,799 --> 00:26:56,359 just sort of emphasizing though that what happened at Can't 475 00:26:56,359 --> 00:27:01,799 Mistick was horrible and you know, should steps should be 476 00:27:01,839 --> 00:27:04,039 taken to prevent it. But even if you take Can't 477 00:27:04,079 --> 00:27:06,559 miss It out of the equation, another one hundred and 478 00:27:06,559 --> 00:27:10,640 eleven people died in these floods, and they were not 479 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,519 at camps. They were at like you said, RVs, they 480 00:27:13,559 --> 00:27:16,039 were in cabins, many of them from out of town 481 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,720 presumably had no idea, you know, where the floodplaine was 482 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,720 or anything like that. I mean, it feels to me 483 00:27:24,839 --> 00:27:26,880 like if it were ever going to happen. If the 484 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:32,519 state were ever going to take steps to you know, 485 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,400 make more rules about what goes on in the floodplane 486 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,000 or what can be built in the floodplane, it would 487 00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:39,799 be right now after you know, over one hundred and 488 00:27:39,839 --> 00:27:43,200 thirty people died. And if we're not doing it now, 489 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,680 Like how how what is the political path of that 490 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,720 happening in twenty twenty seven? I just I just don't 491 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:49,079 see it. 492 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 3: No. 493 00:27:49,519 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 2: I mean, it's like it's different, right, but it's like 494 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,119 after uv All Day, where it's like, if you're not 495 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,680 going to do gun restrictions now, you're not going to 496 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:55,880 do it. 497 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,039 Speaker 3: If you're not going to do floodplain restrictions now. 498 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,279 Speaker 5: You know, maybe that's just the way it is in Texas, 499 00:28:01,319 --> 00:28:04,079 But I mean, what about just I mean, you could 500 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:10,880 require evacuation routes and evacuation processes for airbnbs or hotels 501 00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:14,119 or RV areas. 502 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,559 Speaker 1: I mean, is is there any of that in the legislation? 503 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,599 Speaker 4: Emily, I'm really curious what's going to happen with the 504 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,160 with the siren legislation, because that, I think is where 505 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,839 I've had a lot of conversations around this education component. 506 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,519 You know, experts who study warning systems, say, you can't 507 00:28:32,519 --> 00:28:34,920 just put a siren up and expect that when it blairs, 508 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,119 people are going to know what that means or what 509 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,839 to do. Like if you're from a tornado prone place, 510 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,000 you might stay put, which is exactly what you shouldn't 511 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,839 do if there's a flash flood. So the legislation is 512 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,440 really kind of leaves a lot of the details to 513 00:28:52,599 --> 00:28:55,440 rule making. You know, it's the Texas Water Development Board 514 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,680 that's going to put in place the real specific rules 515 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,039 about what these warning system look like. But I've talked 516 00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:03,880 to people who have said, you know, it could be 517 00:29:04,039 --> 00:29:06,920 that you check in at a hotel or you check 518 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,960 in at your campsite and they pass you a piece 519 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,640 of paper that says, here's the risk you are facing, 520 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,559 and when the siren goes off, here is what to 521 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,519 do and where to go. And so that's kind of 522 00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:22,960 where I will be looking to see what the education 523 00:29:23,079 --> 00:29:27,440 components look like there, because you're right, I mean, some 524 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,319 of this is people who live or have second homes 525 00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:32,960 on the river, but a lot of it is tourism. 526 00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:36,920 Especially because this disaster happened on July fourth, there were 527 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,160 a lot of people there who just may not have known, 528 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,359 you know what flash flaw Daley is what that river 529 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,000 you know that normally looks pretty peaceful, Like the rage 530 00:29:46,119 --> 00:29:50,279 that it can kind of bear down on these locations 531 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,400 is something that could be communicated when you when you 532 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:54,839 check in. 533 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean I've said this on this podcast before, 534 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,920 but my family, my wife's has family up on the 535 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:07,319 Oregon coast and you know, there is a constant threat 536 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,519 of tsunami there, including what they call like the Big 537 00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:14,720 one that is, you know, they know, going to wipe 538 00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:18,000 out a ton of property and things like that. And 539 00:30:18,079 --> 00:30:20,839 if when you check in to the Airbnb or wherever 540 00:30:21,039 --> 00:30:22,880 there's a there's there is something on the door, and 541 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,799 there is something telling you where to go, and there's 542 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,960 supply kits you know that are already stationed in high ground, 543 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,880 and there's signs everywhere that's like tsunami evacuation route, follow 544 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,640 these things. It doesn't feel like it would be that 545 00:30:35,319 --> 00:30:40,119 onerous or expensive to require those kinds of disclosures and 546 00:30:40,759 --> 00:30:41,799 things along those lines. 547 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, we have so many disasters here, I mean, what 548 00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:47,000 are you gonna do? Like a wildfire warning and a 549 00:30:47,079 --> 00:30:50,400 hurricane warning and the you know, like we've got a 550 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,279 lot of crises to manage, like, yeah, it's a higher 551 00:30:54,279 --> 00:30:56,039 bar here than one tsunami. 552 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, Emily, what are you just watching as this plays 553 00:30:59,799 --> 00:31:03,400 out in the coming days, Like what's what do you 554 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,400 think is still sort of at stake or up in 555 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,839 the air or are you curious to see how it 556 00:31:07,839 --> 00:31:08,759 plays out? 557 00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 4: Definitely curious. I mean a lot of these bills have 558 00:31:12,039 --> 00:31:15,240 made it through both chambers and now they're kind of 559 00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:20,240 at this like agreeing on the little changes that are 560 00:31:20,279 --> 00:31:24,559 being made back and forth. So we're kind of just 561 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:29,839 following to see if some argument appears that you know, 562 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:35,359 we didn't know about or didn't expect. But yeah, it's 563 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,559 it'll be It'll be interesting to see where it lands. 564 00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:44,759 And then my understanding is these committees, I think at 565 00:31:44,839 --> 00:31:47,079 least one of them, they've said they will keep going 566 00:31:47,119 --> 00:31:51,720 after this. So what those hearings take up, you know, 567 00:31:51,839 --> 00:31:55,400 with a little more breathing room, I think will be important. 568 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,599 Speaker 2: As you said, I mean, if these bills pass sort 569 00:31:58,599 --> 00:31:59,960 of in their like the form they kind of are 570 00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:04,799 now and go into effect, do you feel like, big picture, 571 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:10,880 we will be more protected from this happening again and 572 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,319 being as horrific as we were before. 573 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:22,279 Speaker 4: July fourth, I'm like, are you asking me an opinion? Illinois? 574 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,119 Speaker 2: I'll you what you know, I can't have those you've talked, 575 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:26,480 you have told you. 576 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,799 Speaker 4: I think on many of these bills, experts who follow 577 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,759 these issues have said these are good first steps. Right, No, 578 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,960 we're just going to say that the steps the legislature 579 00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:44,839 is taking are not going to help in some incremental way. 580 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:52,079 So yes, I think people are seeing some positive change 581 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,440 come out of this. Again, there is an interest in 582 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:03,640 these big picture issues and big picture conversations that you know, 583 00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:07,440 as I said, in disaster after disaster, it's really really 584 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,119 difficult to get people to take a step back and 585 00:33:11,119 --> 00:33:17,039 like look holistically at the problems. So yes, I think 586 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,480 this should again like kind of pending. There's a lot 587 00:33:21,519 --> 00:33:24,000 of rulemaking that has to happen along this stuff. So 588 00:33:24,079 --> 00:33:28,279 the devil in the details maybe to how successful this 589 00:33:28,359 --> 00:33:32,240 will be, but they definitely took steps to address some problems. 590 00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:35,559 I just think, you know, I guess I should say 591 00:33:35,559 --> 00:33:38,759 this is the climate reporter. The thing that people really 592 00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:42,240 have barely touched on is climate change and how these 593 00:33:42,279 --> 00:33:48,200 disasters are. You know, rain is more likely to be heavier, 594 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,400 wildfire seasons are now longer, so what the state is 595 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,480 facing today is not the same as what the state 596 00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:56,799 faced in the past, so that maybe even puts more 597 00:33:56,839 --> 00:34:00,680 pressure on these big picture questions. But did the state 598 00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:03,440 fix everything? I don't think anyone thinks that is the case. 599 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:07,440 Did they fix some things, Yes, some people do feel like, 600 00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,599 you know, sirens will help in a region without cell 601 00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:15,039 service that's rural, and these emergency problems seem to have 602 00:34:15,039 --> 00:34:19,880 been long standing and they're taking steps, So I think 603 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,599 that's where I would leave that. 604 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, ultimately, what the state is engaging in 605 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,960 right now through is political process is a question whether 606 00:34:30,039 --> 00:34:31,639 they want to frame it this way or not of 607 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,480 how much risk are we going to be comfortable with? Right, 608 00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:39,159 you can't eliminate all risk. You can't eliminate all risk. 609 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,039 And you know, if we didn't want to risk any 610 00:34:41,119 --> 00:34:44,239 kind of like terrible accidents, we wouldn't have streets, and 611 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:45,760 we wouldn't have cars, and we wouldn't have all those 612 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:50,119 different types of things. Right, But like, what steps are 613 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,400 we willing to take to intervene in the like free 614 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,320 market and the choices of individuals in order to prevent 615 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,840 them from something like this happening? And how far can 616 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,159 you even go in a world where the climate is 617 00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:10,000 getting warmer, where extreme weather is a reality, to prevent 618 00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:13,599 these things from happening, you know, I think we're not 619 00:35:13,639 --> 00:35:16,519 going to change the political nature of this state where 620 00:35:17,039 --> 00:35:20,519 people like often want to air on the side of 621 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,719 freedom and low regulation and allowing sort of the private 622 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:30,440 sector to you know, fill the needs and desires of 623 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:32,480 the people of the state. 624 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,199 Speaker 4: Yeah. I think that's perfectly put. How much risk are 625 00:35:36,199 --> 00:35:39,440 we willing to accept? And another piece of this is 626 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,920 always how much are we willing to pay to lower 627 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:42,480 that risk? 628 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: Right? Okay, well, thank you Emily for talking this through. 629 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,519 Thank you Eleanor, and thank you to our producers Rob 630 00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:53,760 and Chris. We will be back next week.