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Speaker 1: And I just turned around and I call ass out

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of there.

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Speaker 2: I was done. I wasn't deal with them. The hypocrisy

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of the cult is one of the things that turned

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me away the quickest. When I turned my head lights on,

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it turned and looked at us. And one of the

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things I remember the most, where the eyes were glowing red.

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I see an orb of light. It is just circling

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these steps.

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Speaker 3: Like it is waiting for me. And he begins to

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tell them that he saw UFO.

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Speaker 2: They're basically like, what are you talking about.

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Speaker 3: That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it,

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and that's where I saw the top of the muzzle,

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nose and the eyes.

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Speaker 2: As soon as I made eye contact with this.

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Speaker 4: Thing, I don't like death. Welcome back to Tinfoil Tells.

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I'm your host Brandon. Tonight, we're going to be joined

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by my guest Chris. Chris, thanks for coming on here

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and talking with me.

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Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 4: Would you like to let the audience know a little

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bit about yourself.

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Speaker 1: My name is Chris.

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Speaker 2: I am forty six years old, live up here in

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northeast Indiana and Allen County. Got three kids, all teenagers,

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just live in our little slice of the dream here

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and dipping my toes into the strange and unusual when

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I have time and I do little bits of field

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trips when I hear about, you know, certain paranormal things

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if I have time and just kind of do it

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for my own curiosity.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what influencehould do get into this, but

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there's usually something. But before we bring that up, I

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wanted to mention that I appreciate and enjoy talking to

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fellow Indiana residents. So for all the Hoosiers out there,

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I get a lot of comments from people from Indiana

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that are always happy to hear more stories from Indiana.

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So definitely appreciate you coming on here talking to me.

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Speaker 2: Oh, no problem. I love hearing about things that are

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in our state and especially close to home.

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Speaker 4: That is the one thing that I do enjoy the

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most is when I get to talk to people that

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are fairly close just because it resonates more with me.

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I'm like, well, I'm not the only one from around

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here seeing.

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Speaker 2: Stuff, so yeah, yeah, I agree. It kind of drives

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at home and makes it more relatable in some way.

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Speaker 4: To some people, they claim it makes it more real.

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They don't like that I was like, well, for me,

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as like, it just confirms it. I'm not crazy. I

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might be crazy, but not in this instance.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's fair. I mean, some of the things

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that some of us are seeing and experiencing our you know,

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for a lack of a better term, they are crazy,

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you know, because we were always taught some of these

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things shouldn't exist.

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Speaker 4: All right, What led you down the path that you're

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on now? Like, what got you into all of this

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weird activity, all this weird stuff.

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Speaker 2: It probably started out when I was little. My mom

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was really big into horror movies, and honestly, I think

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the first quote unquote scary movie I can remember watching

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was Legend of Boggy Creek, and you know that, you know,

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at seven years old, just freaked me out beyond you

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know that that was hard to wrap my head around.

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And it kind of just kind of trickle into a

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fascination from there. And then you start hearing about ghost stories,

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and then you know, eventually you're my dad, let me

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watch The Exorcist entirely too young of an age, and

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uh uh, you know, and it's just my curiosity just

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got the better of me when it along the way,

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you know, the pre Internet, the best we could do

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were the library and if you were lucky, you got

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to get the Mysteries of the Unknown time life books

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or something like that, you know, and uh, which we

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did have growing up, so you know, that was a

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good resource. And then you know, those things just kind

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of suck in and once, once the internet became a thing,

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you know, it just made it easy to start finding

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more stories and you know, oh, hey, this happened here,

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that happened there, And you know, next thing, you know,

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you're finding about stuff that happened down the street from.

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Speaker 4: You, right that the stories that you hear from down

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the street. Then you start to creep you out a

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little bit more.

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Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, because you're like, hey, I walked by that

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house you know, ten times a week or whatever, and

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you know you had no idea something like that happened there. Yeah,

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it's wild.

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Speaker 4: Well, what are some of the things you've experienced that

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you'd like to share with us tonight?

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Speaker 2: Well, excuse me. The the first notable thing that I

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can remember happening to me, and this was, you know, I'm

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probably fourteen fifteen years old, I would say neighborhood friends

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and I you know, we kind of got into the

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whole Wiji board thing, which you know, hindsight being what

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it is, that was a terrible idea.

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Speaker 4: But it always starts with the board, right.

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Speaker 2: But I can distinctly remember one instance we were messing

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with it, and you know, I flicked the bic and

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the other guy he said, you know, hey, if this

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is real, make this flame shoot up. And you know,

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sure enough that things shot up about eight ten inches

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and freaked us all out for the night. We were done.

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But really what that led to was I was laying

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in bed one night having trouble sleeping, and I noticed

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this figure standing over me, skeletal face, just absolutely terrifying,

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and like it was so big that if you ran,

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like you imagine the flats of your shoulder blades going across.

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It was hunched over, but its shoulder blades were flat

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against the ceiling, and I would close my eyes, and

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every time I closed my eyes and opened them, it

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would be two inches from my face, and then it

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would slowly recede back up to the ceiling and it

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would just stare at me. And this maybe went on

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for fifteen twenty minutes until I could actually manage to

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fall asleep and The only thing I could take from

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it at the moment was that it was just it

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was evil, it was just I don't know what its

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attentions were at this point, it's been so long it

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would be speculation. But I remember the next day pulling

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my sister aside, and you know, she's about a year

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younger and I am, and I told her, you know,

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this is what happened. This is what I saw. You know,

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it was pretty detailed, and she convinced me that it

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was like, yeah, it was a dreamer was this and him?

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And I said, okay, you know, and I kind of

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wrote it off, but the validation to it came, you know,

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a couple of months later, I had went to my

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mom's for the weekend and one of her girlfriends spent

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the night and slept in my room, which I didn't

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know about until I got home, and my sister pulls

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me out. She's like, I kind of all freaked out.

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She said, you're not gonna believe this. And I said,

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what she says, you know, so and so saw the

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exact same thing sleeping in your room, and it did

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the exact same thing to her that it did to you.

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And you know, that's when I proceeded to tell my sister,

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you know, like, see, I told you it wasn't crazy,

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you know. And the same thing is just it just

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evoked fear, it was, you know, right, I. I just

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I've always chalked it up to being something demonic. That's

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what I felt in my heart. That's what I felt

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in a moment. And uh, I'm absolutely positively sure it's

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because we were messing with that Ouiji board and you

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know that, and you know, being an emotional teenager with

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doubts and this and that and whatever else, like we

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all did that back then, you know, I think it

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just fed into it. No.

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Speaker 4: I when it comes to wigi board stuff, that is

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the one thing that I have never messed with, and

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I don't have any intentions of messing with. I don't

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know if it's just because of my upbringing, but I

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never thought there's anything good comes from aig board.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we didn't have any We weren't a very

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religious family. There wasn't weekly trips to church, you know,

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right back in fact of the matter is, growing up, the

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only time we went to church is when somebody got

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married or somebody died. Yeah, And and you know back then,

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you know, just like today they sell weugy boards at Walmart,

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you know. And in fact, the one we were using,

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my grandma had at her house. It was stacked in

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the closet with her all her board games. So you know,

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we thought, oh, well, grandma got it. They can't be

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that big a deal, you know, So we we would

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get it out and play it, and you know, if

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we knew she was going out of town, we'd snag

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it for the weekend or something. And you know, I

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think we probably spent the entire summer doing it, you know,

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almost definitely weekly, but sometimes three four times a week. Yeah.

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I just.

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Speaker 4: For even at forty something years old, now, I I'm

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still too superstitious.

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Speaker 2: So well, sperience and some other things have just taught

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me to that, you know, these things aren't good and

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that you know, you listen to some of these other

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guests on other podcasts and they'll swear there's nothing wrong

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with it, and you know, more power to them, and

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you know, I'm glad that maybe somebody's having a positive

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experience with it, but I just I would never dare

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consider touching money. And in fact, I've told my kids

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growing as they've grown up, you know that, you know,

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don't don't mess with these It's just there's nothing that

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good's going to come from it.

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Speaker 4: No, So not to hijack anything. But I recently got

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a bunch of paranormals, like some cameras and some meters

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and the other thing I got for this documentary as

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a spirit box. And one of the rules that I've

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always heard is you don't do any of the stuff

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in the place you live in. And I turned on

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the spirit box and I made sure it was scanning,

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and then I didn't say things, so I turned it off.

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And then my son asked me, He's like, is that

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the thing that like the ghost talked to you through?

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So I said yes, my wife didn't want me to

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mess with it, and he said try it out. I

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was like, okay, So I turned it back on and

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I asked as like as anyone out there. Within five seconds,

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we hear hello in a lady's voice, and I just

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instantly clicked it off. I was like, yeah, this is

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why you don't try that stuff.

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Speaker 2: At home, right, yeah? And you know, and really, until

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you were telling that, I hadn't really considered that those

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things are basically just digital wigi boards.

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Speaker 4: Right, that's kind of when you were talking about wigie boards,

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Like this is literally the same concept that you're asking questions,

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and now it's just saying things in frequency voices.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I'm guilty of it. I've played

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with them, you know, I've downloaded the apps and tried

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them at home and tried them at work, and you know,

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I don't know what kind of the I don't know

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how good the ones are that you put on your

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phone are, but they're definitely interesting.

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Speaker 4: Right. So this one just scans the radio frequencies like

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a little handheld radio thing. So I don't know right

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the concept behind it other than it just scan through

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all these frequency ranges for like radio stations. But it's

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just weird enough to me that it's I'm not going

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to mess with it. I'm going to take it somewhere

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else and use it, but I'm not going to use

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it at home.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. That's uh, probably a good idea that that's one

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of the reasons why I haven't ever go feet first

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into the field like I've wanted to, just because I've

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always been afraid that I was bringing I would bring

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something home and I didn't want something to come home

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and attach itself to my kids.

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Speaker 4: That's exactly the reasons why I don't do anything like that.

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I'm already leary enough to go out into the woods

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to do this documentary and hopefully whatever we potentially get

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interactions with doesn't want to come home either. But I've

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got preparations to quote unquote bless us and protect us

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and stuff like that, so we will go out and

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hopefully not have to worry about any of that.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a good thing. I hope it works out.

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Speaker 4: But more back to your experiences. What are some of

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the other things that you've dealt with.

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Speaker 2: Well, the first experience I talked about, I think really

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was kind of like a springboard, and I believe I

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had an attachment due to that, a negative attachment, because

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off and on for years, well into adulthood. You know,

243
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I would see shadow figures out of the corner of

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my eye, this dart and over here, that dart and

245
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over there. You know, you hear the occasional knocks you some,

246
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but eventually things would start to progress, and for me,

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I would start hearing heavy breathing, like very deliberate, like

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you know, a deep inhale and a strong exhale, just

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like on a steady clip. That's how it went. And

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that particular set of circumstances culminated. I was living in

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a small town just outside of Fort Wayne called Monroeville,

252
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and you know, it was a kind of a difficult

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time in my life, a lot of emotion due to,

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you know, my marriage kind of falling apart. We were

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new parents, our kids were young, you know, they had

256
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all those stresses and same thing. Going to bed, it

257
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was late August, so it was warm, but it wasn't

258
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like blazing hot. So I opened the windows up and

259
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had the fan on and I laid down and I

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typically going to sleep, will lay face down, and then

261
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I start hearing the breathing, which at this period of time,

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I had been hearing it more frequently, and I was

263
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trying to ignore it. And then something different happened. And

264
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this is the first time I'd experienced this. And what

265
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had happened was it was so strange. It was kind

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of like on some of the movies you see. And

267
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I don't know if it's because they got it right

268
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or they just chance, but the total ambience of the

269
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room changeing. It literally got cold. I wouldn't say, see

270
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your breath cold, but it was noticeably cold, like a

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good ten to fifteen degree temperature drop. And I'm like

272
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asking myself, like, you know, like okay, I start to

273
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get up, and that's when I feel a hand grab

274
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the back of my head force it down onto the bed,

275
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and then literally right behind my ear, I hear this

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growl in about that time I shot up, and about

277
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the time I shot up, temperature of the room went

278
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back to normal. I couldn't hear that breathing, that deliberate

279
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breathing anymore. And I'm sitting there and I'm literally talking

280
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out loud to myself, going nope, nope, no, nope, but

281
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like this did not just happen to me. And I

282
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get up, go to the bathroom. I'm just trying to

283
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,799
shake it off. I come back, I said, you know,

284
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forget about it. I lay down, and it starts all

285
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over again, the breathing, the temperature starts to drop again.

286
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And about that point I didn't give it much more time,

287
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and I just got up and I said, no, I'm

288
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sleeping on a couch at tonight, you know. And that

289
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was that was the extent of that particular experience. But

290
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that was that by far, which probably the most terrifying

291
00:18:52,759 --> 00:18:58,440
one I've ever had, like to have something, you know,

292
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I believe in these things. I even prior to this,

293
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:06,839
you know, as so many of us do. You don't

294
00:19:06,839 --> 00:19:15,279
necessarily experience these violent these violent things, and yet when

295
00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:19,039
but we choose to believe because you hear the sincerity

296
00:19:19,039 --> 00:19:21,119
in somebody's voice and you see the emotion in their

297
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,880
eyes when they're telling it, if they're willing to tell you,

298
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and I'm it just I couldn't even talk about it

299
00:19:29,799 --> 00:19:36,359
for a few years, and it was it just really

300
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kind of changed everything for me because like I like

301
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,160
I believed it. I went from yes, I believe it's

302
00:19:42,279 --> 00:19:48,039
real too, I know it's real, and that's such a

303
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:48,920
powerful thing.

304
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:55,160
Speaker 4: No, I get it. That's that's the struggle I think

305
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,599
a lot of people have is actually accepting the idea

306
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,319
that they things are real. Stuff that you've experienced is

307
00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:05,000
actually real. As much as we try and write it

308
00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:08,480
off or not want to accept it, you sometimes just

309
00:20:08,559 --> 00:20:11,400
can't you come to terms with it. And that's where

310
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the struggle actually begins.

311
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Speaker 2: Right because nobody in my family believes these things like

312
00:20:19,759 --> 00:20:23,319
I do. You know, even my mom who was always

313
00:20:23,319 --> 00:20:27,960
into the spookier side of things. You know, I tried

314
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,240
to talk about to her about it once before she died,

315
00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:33,359
and you know, she's like, oh, you just had a dream,

316
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,440
and you know it was trying to get me to

317
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:40,319
write it off. Is it? It was nothing? And you know,

318
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:45,680
it's not till you start really having a conversation with

319
00:20:45,759 --> 00:20:49,640
somebody that's been through it that they go you start

320
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,400
to feel like you can open up to talk about

321
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,599
it because they've experienced it themselves. And that's really what

322
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,359
it took for me to get comfortable with it.

323
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,799
Speaker 4: Right. Yeah, how old were you when this happened?

324
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 2: Oh? I was probably mid thirties, thirty four to thirty five.

325
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:17,799
Speaker 4: Okay, so about ten fifteen years ago. I think you

326
00:21:17,839 --> 00:21:21,559
said you're forty six, forty seven. Yeah, I'm forty six,

327
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:24,559
so about ten years ago roughly.

328
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And it was about that time the place

329
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:37,400
I was working, not just where I was working, it

330
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,039
was everywhere I went. It was the grocery store, it

331
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:46,799
was any department store. I was seeing shadow figures everywhere

332
00:21:46,799 --> 00:21:53,599
I went, And it was i'd total movement out of

333
00:21:53,599 --> 00:21:57,920
the cordam right eye a knock, you know, right as

334
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:07,759
I passed a certain spot and it was that was

335
00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:10,240
a really dark dark time for me. And like I said,

336
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:14,920
it was, I chalk it up to the emotions of

337
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:22,119
my marriage falling apart and having young kids and you're

338
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,559
trying to navigate that part of your life and the

339
00:22:25,559 --> 00:22:28,759
stresses of paying the bills and everything else. And I

340
00:22:28,839 --> 00:22:32,920
just think whatever that I believe attached itself to me

341
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:39,839
Yell in years prior was feeding off of my doubt

342
00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:47,559
and my fear, and it was if I didn't know

343
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,079
any better, I would say, I think it was maybe

344
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:52,480
demonic oppression.

345
00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 4: I wonder this is just me spitball. But you talk

346
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,759
about like an attachment. I wonder if whatever it was

347
00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:09,319
it was looking over your bed isn't the same thing

348
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,640
and it just has just been falling like it's been

349
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:14,519
attached to you.

350
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:26,039
Speaker 2: I've wondered that myself, and I don't know. I mean,

351
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:29,559
it would make sense, But the best honest answer I

352
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,480
give you is I don't know, right, And I guess

353
00:23:34,519 --> 00:23:38,880
maybe because it's when the other things have happened, like

354
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,160
being held in my bedroom, like I was absolutely terrified,

355
00:23:43,839 --> 00:23:45,960
But the fear I saw when I saw that entity

356
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:50,519
when I was at fifteen, fourteen fifteen. That was it,

357
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,400
just it was kind of a different kind of fear,

358
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:58,079
like the thing I saw standing over my bed. I

359
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,920
feel like it was it was with me for the

360
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,440
sake of grewing with me. Like it was like getting

361
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,799
off on it, you know what I mean, like feeding

362
00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:07,480
off that fear.

363
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,880
Speaker 4: I was emanating that did that thing that was looking

364
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,559
over you, did you notice if it had any sort

365
00:24:14,599 --> 00:24:18,160
of definitive like shapes or anything like that that you

366
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:18,880
could pick up.

367
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,279
Speaker 2: It absolutely had a skeletal face. It was like I'm

368
00:24:24,319 --> 00:24:29,680
not going to say on like a like a a

369
00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:36,200
traditional skeleton look to it, but kind of like sunk

370
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:43,680
very dark sunken ice sockets and everything else was kind

371
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:52,519
of grayish black, and everything around it was just black

372
00:24:52,759 --> 00:24:56,400
to a certain point, you know, within maybe a foot

373
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,519
or two of it. It was just the darkest dark.

374
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:06,880
And yeah, that's I mean, that's what I remember of it.

375
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,960
It's been so long, you know, you know, it's not

376
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,559
one of these things I talk about super frequently because

377
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,240
I mean, it just doesn't affect me like it used to.

378
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,079
Speaker 4: Were you able to move it all or you kind

379
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,000
of like almost I want to say frozen, but almost

380
00:25:24,039 --> 00:25:27,319
like sleep paralysis with it.

381
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know, simply because I've never really

382
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:36,839
thought about that.

383
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 4: The lead go ahead, the leading over and like looking

384
00:25:46,039 --> 00:25:50,039
at you type stuff reminds me of very like a

385
00:25:50,079 --> 00:25:52,680
lot of hat Man. That's why I was asking about

386
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,960
the shape if did you seem like a hat type

387
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,960
shape to it. A lot of the hat Man stories

388
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,440
that I've been coming up, like stuff I've researched and

389
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,079
things that people have told me. Usually they feel like

390
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:10,359
their body can't move, and the thing's usually looking over

391
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,640
at them, it's close to their face, and there's a

392
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,640
lot of similarities with that. So when you were saying

393
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,680
that earlier, the first thing I started thinking about was

394
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,559
I wonder if it was like a hat Man type entity.

395
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,640
I don't know what they are. I just know many

396
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,759
many people report a lot of similar characteristics as to

397
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,000
what you were describing.

398
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,319
Speaker 2: It very well could have been something like that. I

399
00:26:33,319 --> 00:26:35,400
don't recall seeing a hat, but it could have been

400
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,960
because I was just so stone cold focused on the

401
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:44,000
face that I just don't remember one. So yeah, I

402
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,559
mean that's a very real possibility.

403
00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I have no idea what they are. I just

404
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:53,599
know that a lot of people report like I think

405
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,640
I may have had my own too, But I don't

406
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,119
know if they're evil. I don't know what they are.

407
00:27:02,279 --> 00:27:04,119
I don't know anything about them. I've talked to people

408
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,400
have different opinions, but I don't honestly think anyone really knows.

409
00:27:08,039 --> 00:27:10,759
So it is just kind of a guessing.

410
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:18,599
Speaker 2: Game, right, And Yeah, I've often wondered how many experiences

411
00:27:19,559 --> 00:27:24,039
that individuals have where maybe that we think something's evil

412
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,160
is maybe it's not. It's just because we're so scared

413
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,519
because we've never experienced anything like that before.

414
00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 4: I think, and this is not to alienate myself from

415
00:27:35,519 --> 00:27:38,079
a lot of people, but I think what our interpretations

416
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,480
of evil is could vary differently from something else. So

417
00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:45,880
let's just say these things. We're given guidelines to our

418
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,160
reality as to what has been put in front of

419
00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:50,640
us of what's good and evil. So we interpret things

420
00:27:50,759 --> 00:27:53,440
as good and evil based off of what we believe

421
00:27:53,559 --> 00:27:55,200
is to be good and evil. But what if these

422
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,559
other things are out there and they're not necessarily good

423
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,440
or evil. They're just indifferent because they're only what they are,

424
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,440
So they're no longer in the same guidelines that we've

425
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:09,160
set upon our own selves. So we think these things

426
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,000
are coming around here doing evil things, but yet look

427
00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:16,000
at We'll just use the animals for an example, like,

428
00:28:16,599 --> 00:28:18,200
so there's a pack of wolves out there while the

429
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,720
wolf hunts and eats a deer, Like, does that make

430
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:26,119
a wolf evil? If these things exist and they come

431
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,519
here and they feed off of us, like our energy

432
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,759
or something, a lot of people say, Oh, they're negative spirits.

433
00:28:31,799 --> 00:28:34,240
They're attaching to you, they're feeding off your energies, they're eating,

434
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,799
They're like parasitic. But that's just their function. Does that

435
00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:39,960
make them evil by nature? Or is that just them

436
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,000
surviving no different than when we go out there and

437
00:28:43,359 --> 00:28:44,400
do what we do to survive.

438
00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:51,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very fair question. And perspective is definitely everything,

439
00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:59,359
because what I've noticed a common theme between people who

440
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,880
have paranormal and different cryptid encounters is the one thing

441
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,640
I hear a lot of people say more than anything

442
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:14,119
is that it shattered my belief structure. Well, those of

443
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,640
us that have had experience or seen things or seen

444
00:29:18,839 --> 00:29:21,039
run across the big foot or a dog man or

445
00:29:21,319 --> 00:29:27,200
whatever it is. Once you have that experience, I mean,

446
00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:33,799
your belief structure has completely changed. And the you know,

447
00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:38,319
I've always told my kids, you know, like my oldest

448
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,039
daughter has always been really fascinated with all the paranormal

449
00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:47,319
stuff and sasquatch and dog man stuff, and I've told her,

450
00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:50,799
I said, kiddo, I said, you know, you got to

451
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,920
watch what you wish for. I said, because it's like,

452
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,519
once you're that third eye or whatever it is, it

453
00:29:57,519 --> 00:30:01,319
gets open to that. What I've my experiences is once

454
00:30:01,799 --> 00:30:05,000
you've experienced it, it's hard to not see it. It's

455
00:30:05,039 --> 00:30:08,400
hard to not experience it. I don't know if that

456
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:10,759
makes sense, but there's just something about that.

457
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,039
Speaker 4: I agree, because most of the time when I talk

458
00:30:15,079 --> 00:30:17,640
to people, if you've ever experienced one thing, you start

459
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,480
to find out that they've experienced more. And I've said

460
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,119
this many times. At this point, I used to never

461
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,559
believe when people said, oh I saw a bigfoot, well

462
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,240
I saw ufo, I saw orbs, my house was haunted, Like,

463
00:30:30,319 --> 00:30:32,519
how's one person having all this activity? They have to

464
00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:34,680
be making this up because there's no way someone can

465
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:41,799
be experiencing all these different paranormal weird experiences. So they

466
00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:42,799
got to be full of crap.

467
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:43,359
Speaker 2: And then.

468
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 4: It's very common. And the more I've dug into, the

469
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,680
more I've thought, and even things that I've experienced myself

470
00:30:50,759 --> 00:30:57,319
is basically I feel hypocritical sometimes because I've seen things

471
00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:00,400
I've had. The when I actually started to think about

472
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,400
some of the things that I've personally went through, I'm like,

473
00:31:03,519 --> 00:31:06,559
maybe there is something to this. Because the more I

474
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:09,240
talk to people, the more I've discovered that a lot

475
00:31:09,279 --> 00:31:10,960
of these things are common, which has led me to

476
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,599
believe and I think all the stuff is somehow connected

477
00:31:14,599 --> 00:31:16,640
one way or the other. And when you start experiencing

478
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,920
one thing, it opens you up to experience more. So

479
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,799
once your mind is open, I think that's why you

480
00:31:21,839 --> 00:31:27,839
experience more things because it's now able. You recognized it,

481
00:31:28,039 --> 00:31:31,200
so now it's looking back at you like it recognizes you,

482
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,720
if that makes any sort of sense. But like it's

483
00:31:34,759 --> 00:31:36,640
the old thing, like when you stare into the abyss,

484
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,519
sometimes the abys stares back. I think that is very

485
00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:41,720
true when it comes to this type of stuff, Like

486
00:31:41,759 --> 00:31:44,000
if this is the abyss, we looked into it, now

487
00:31:44,039 --> 00:31:46,279
it's looking back, and that's what all this stuff is.

488
00:31:48,319 --> 00:31:52,079
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, Uh, you know that's the the whole thing

489
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,960
with the you know, like, hey, I figured out the

490
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,079
pattern for your camouflage and now I can pick you

491
00:31:57,079 --> 00:31:59,279
out ord no matter where you hide. So once you

492
00:31:59,319 --> 00:32:03,720
do that, it's you know, the game's over, at least

493
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:08,319
to a degree, I mean at least yeah, I understand

494
00:32:08,319 --> 00:32:09,559
what you're saying there completely.

495
00:32:11,319 --> 00:32:14,799
Speaker 4: Once everyone starts to pick up on the weird wavelengths

496
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:18,319
of what goes on, I I truly believe that's how

497
00:32:18,319 --> 00:32:21,400
we are able to experience more stuff. So when people

498
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,119
want to go out looking for this stuff and they

499
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,200
don't have any sort of experiences, I think it's based

500
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,960
off intent too. So if you're going out there and

501
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,519
you're trying to cause things, you're trying to rile things up,

502
00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:37,319
you're trying to find stuff, most likely you're not going

503
00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:41,000
to because you're purposely trying too hard. Like, the most

504
00:32:41,119 --> 00:32:45,640
I've ever heard from people to me are the ones

505
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,680
that aren't out there doing anything and they just so

506
00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:51,039
happen to see something, something happens to them. They weren't

507
00:32:51,079 --> 00:32:53,079
out there trying to find anything. They weren't in a

508
00:32:53,119 --> 00:32:55,519
haunted house, they weren't out in the woods hunting big Foot.

509
00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:58,799
Like it's the random person driving down the road and

510
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,440
something walks across the road. It's the person that lives

511
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,039
in a house and they like, man, my house is

512
00:33:03,079 --> 00:33:06,880
haunted because literally my cabinet door flies open and a

513
00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:09,839
dish comes flying out at me. Like that's the type

514
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,519
of stuff that seems more believable to me in the

515
00:33:13,599 --> 00:33:16,160
sense that these people are just everyday people, not out

516
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,279
here trying to instigate this stuff to come out, but

517
00:33:20,319 --> 00:33:21,440
they're experience in it.

518
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,079
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, I've noticed that myself, you know, like

519
00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:31,559
I love going out and going into the woods, and

520
00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:35,000
you know, so and so said they saw this here,

521
00:33:35,079 --> 00:33:37,160
so I'll go check it out if it's within you know,

522
00:33:37,319 --> 00:33:40,599
forty fifty miles of the house, or I'll go camp

523
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,319
there for the night. And you know, typically I don't

524
00:33:45,359 --> 00:33:48,200
experience anything or see anything that I find I feel

525
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:53,640
like is odd or even even could be considered circumstantial

526
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:59,319
evidence towards the subject at hand. But it you know,

527
00:33:59,559 --> 00:34:02,480
the when I look back through the experiences that I've

528
00:34:02,519 --> 00:34:07,960
had or when I've seen something, it's every time I'm

529
00:34:08,039 --> 00:34:13,079
absolutely not looking for it, and then I'll suddenly it's

530
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:14,079
right in my face.

531
00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 4: No, that's to me when I think when you're not

532
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,400
thinking about it is when your mind's more open to it,

533
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,800
which is weird way of saying it, But I think

534
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,880
that's how it kind of works, is your mind's more

535
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,599
open when your mind's shut off. So if we're just

536
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:35,159
out there doing something, not thinking about things, we're just

537
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,480
focused on what we're doing this and that I think

538
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:40,920
that makes it to where we experience more stuff because

539
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,400
the more we try and zone into that pattern of

540
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:48,960
what's out there. I don't think it works that way, right, which, right,

541
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:51,840
I don't know what I'm talking about. So for anyone listening,

542
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,039
you think that old Brandon has all the answers, I

543
00:34:55,079 --> 00:34:58,559
have no answers. This is just me being myself and

544
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:04,239
how I rationalize things that I am one never going

545
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,119
to say this is how it is because I don't know.

546
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,599
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I get what you're saying. I I don't

547
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,800
know anything. I just know what I've experienced. And you know,

548
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:21,119
some people will hear me talk about it and go, oh, well, wow,

549
00:35:21,519 --> 00:35:24,920
that's that's crazy, or some people might go, you know,

550
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,559
he's full of it, and you know that's okay too.

551
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,960
You know, I'm not trying to convince anybody. I just

552
00:35:31,039 --> 00:35:36,239
know that this is what I experienced, and you know

553
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,960
it's and kind of to your point, that kind of

554
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:47,480
reminds me of those I like patterned posters they used

555
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,440
to sell back in the nineties, where if you stared

556
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,440
at them long enough you could see like a boat

557
00:35:51,639 --> 00:35:52,199
or whatever.

558
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know what you mean. I think what they're called.

559
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 2: But it's like that, you know, you focus so hard

560
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,719
on seeing the one thing that you don't see anything

561
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,639
else around you. And that's when I think we miss

562
00:36:05,639 --> 00:36:06,039
a lot.

563
00:36:07,519 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 4: I think there are plenty of people out there. I

564
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:14,920
can almost say majority of the world has had some

565
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,880
sort of interaction with something different. And I'm meaning it

566
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,679
in the sense that could have been in paranormal They

567
00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:22,760
could have seen something and something I don't know what

568
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,360
it is, but they've had some sort of strange instance,

569
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:32,159
and I think it gets ignored. I think it gets

570
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:33,880
rolled off. I think it's just like, oh, that was

571
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,760
nothing or something. They see something on the coroner I

572
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:37,480
they look at it's gone, Oh it's just nothing. That's

573
00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:40,119
just my mind playing tricks on me. But what if

574
00:36:40,199 --> 00:36:42,679
in those instances it's really not and we just write

575
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,559
it off because I think that's human nature is to

576
00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:47,519
write it off because we don't understand it.

577
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:57,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that we're so focused on the world

578
00:36:57,599 --> 00:37:01,079
that we've created around us, that we've we as humans

579
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:07,039
have lost something that maybe our ancestors were more in

580
00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:11,559
touch with. And I think that, I honestly believe that

581
00:37:11,599 --> 00:37:16,360
the Native American cultures is a perfect example of that, right.

582
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:22,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think they were very in tune to the world,

583
00:37:22,199 --> 00:37:24,039
and for some reason, and I don't know, maybe this

584
00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:28,639
was by design, when we came over here. By we,

585
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:36,440
I mean like my ancestors, whatever, we pushed them out

586
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,960
of here, like we claimed these lands, and we did

587
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:43,800
all these bad things, and we looked at the or

588
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,639
they I keep saying it wasn't me, but I think

589
00:37:48,679 --> 00:37:50,880
they looked down upon them because they didn't consider them

590
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,360
as civilized as all these new people coming over here

591
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,679
from Europe. So they took the lands and everything. But

592
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,559
I think the originalative American for very in tune to

593
00:38:02,639 --> 00:38:07,960
everything around here. We didn't see them as civilized people,

594
00:38:08,079 --> 00:38:11,800
so we pushed them away. But yet I think the

595
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,320
civilization that we are is blinded to a lot of

596
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,519
the real truth of reality. If that makes any sort

597
00:38:20,519 --> 00:38:22,840
of sense in my big long rambling there.

598
00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 2: No, I think it makes good sense. I mean, I

599
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:33,360
think the Native American cultures we're in tune with their

600
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:38,039
environment and with nature and with the creatures of their environment,

601
00:38:39,679 --> 00:38:43,039
especially the creatures not just the known ones, but the

602
00:38:43,039 --> 00:38:47,960
ones that you know we talk about like Bigfoot or

603
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:51,159
dog Man or whatever else that's out there, wind goes

604
00:38:51,280 --> 00:39:01,840
or you know, do they exist? You know, it's they

605
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:07,039
believed it. And you know, when you've got a culture

606
00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:10,639
that has so many different words to describe the same

607
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,119
thing in there, you know, showing them respect in this

608
00:39:14,199 --> 00:39:19,000
and that, it just makes you wonder. And I've heard

609
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,320
a lot of people try to explain it away, you know,

610
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,400
with this that or whatever else, and you know, try

611
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,320
to say, oh, well, it's a genetic memory of a

612
00:39:27,599 --> 00:39:30,559
you know, a giant ape or whatever that used to exist.

613
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:35,519
You know, I just don't buy that. It's you know,

614
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:42,360
I don't see something that's not present and making itself

615
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,039
known to you in some way, shape or form, having

616
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:51,760
such a powerful presence in your culture.

617
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,760
Speaker 4: I think. I know a lot of people are in

618
00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:05,920
frank camps when it comes to cryptids, like especially Bigfoot,

619
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,639
Like a lot of people think that it is very

620
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:14,400
much some sort of a primate type of creature. And

621
00:40:14,519 --> 00:40:17,199
for the longest time I was on that band too,

622
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:24,559
but nowadays, I don't know. I get like, at least

623
00:40:24,559 --> 00:40:28,159
footprints and they've found this trace evidence, but it's still

624
00:40:28,199 --> 00:40:30,159
never been proven one way or the other. Yes, you

625
00:40:30,199 --> 00:40:32,480
have the Patterson Gimblin film, which to me, I think

626
00:40:32,599 --> 00:40:36,400
is if there is a real Bigfoot. I think that

627
00:40:36,639 --> 00:40:38,880
is probably an actual bigfoot in that because I don't

628
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,119
think it's ever been replicated and to the extent that

629
00:40:41,119 --> 00:40:48,679
it was back then. But I struggle with believing for

630
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,239
the fact that there's never been any actual evidence found,

631
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,880
as in a skeleton or any sort of thing like that,

632
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,039
to prove that these things exist. Because if there is

633
00:40:59,039 --> 00:41:00,840
a population of them out there, they have to have

634
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,239
a breeding population. Therefore there must be more of them around.

635
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:10,000
So where are the bodies at? I feel the same

636
00:41:10,039 --> 00:41:10,920
way with any.

637
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:16,880
Speaker 2: Cryptid, like, yeah, that's a that's a that's a very

638
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,639
fair question. Is long as we're still thinking about them

639
00:41:20,639 --> 00:41:22,320
as flesh and blood animals for sure.

640
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 4: So that's like you.

641
00:41:24,599 --> 00:41:28,639
Speaker 2: I used to stay in that camp that bigfoot was

642
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:35,000
like an ape, and as time has gone on, I

643
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,239
guess I'm getting a little bit more woo woo about it.

644
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:46,239
And you know, the the theories about these things being interdimensional.

645
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,159
It's kind of like making a lot more sense to me.

646
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 4: You know, that's the pathway that I would guess I

647
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,800
would lean towards. But then when I talked to some

648
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,880
friends that are straight up still on that flesh and

649
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:04,159
blood camp, they don't see it that way. But I

650
00:42:04,159 --> 00:42:06,039
don't know which, I don't know where to go with it.

651
00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:08,320
I'm just saying is if I'm believing in flesh and blood,

652
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,840
then there has to be some sort of skeletal remains somewhere.

653
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:12,800
There has to be something proven that these things were

654
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:14,639
around or still around it them. We don't have that.

655
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,880
So if they claim that, people go to wo side

656
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,559
because they can't be explained, so they just automatically jump

657
00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:25,599
to that because that that solidifies their belief because they

658
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:28,440
can't prove it exists and they can't prove it doesn't exist.

659
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:30,880
I was like, here's the problem that I see about it.

660
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,519
You I can say, yeah, you can't prove it doesn't exist.

661
00:42:36,679 --> 00:42:38,639
But I can say that about anything. I can literally

662
00:42:38,679 --> 00:42:41,480
make something up right now, say there is a eight

663
00:42:41,519 --> 00:42:45,400
foot tall walking Ostrich mant out in the woods. Prove

664
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,960
it doesn't exist, you know what I mean? That's that's

665
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:51,519
a dumb way of saying, yeah.

666
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 2: Well, I think the one thing that I've learned just

667
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,039
being objective and really and I mean really being objective

668
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:04,840
when it comes to this field is that I think

669
00:43:05,079 --> 00:43:07,800
when you take a long, long look at it, and

670
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:09,679
I could take I might catch a lot of flak

671
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:14,199
for this, and that's okay. But to me, and then

672
00:43:14,199 --> 00:43:17,239
to a lot of people, more and more, I feel

673
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,519
like we're starting to understand that more than one thing

674
00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:27,079
could be true simultaneously. So I'm kind of in this

675
00:43:28,199 --> 00:43:34,440
mindset where when it comes to Bigfoot or dog Man that, yeah,

676
00:43:34,559 --> 00:43:37,400
I kind of think they're inter dimensional. But at the

677
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,000
same time, when they're here, you know, I think maybe

678
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,559
there's a maybe, for lack of a better term, you know,

679
00:43:44,599 --> 00:43:47,880
a solidification process where they become flesh and blood while

680
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,400
they're here, and then in order to go back to

681
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:57,559
wherever it is they're coming from, you know, there's the

682
00:43:57,599 --> 00:44:01,360
process is reversed. You know. Again, I don't know I'm

683
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,159
speculating here, but I mean, to me, that makes sense.

684
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:12,039
Speaker 4: If these things are truly exist and they have the

685
00:44:12,079 --> 00:44:14,920
ability to come in and out of our planet existence,

686
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,320
it would make sense that they would have to have

687
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:23,679
the physical attributes of what we have here. So basically

688
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:25,440
we live in the three D world, so they would

689
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:30,159
have to manifest themselves into a three D creature. So

690
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:32,800
if they're from a different plane of existence, like a

691
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,679
different reality, like the fourth dimension, their laws of physics

692
00:44:36,679 --> 00:44:38,480
in the fourth dimension are different than what we have

693
00:44:38,559 --> 00:44:42,519
here in the third dimension. So whatever shapes and stuff

694
00:44:42,519 --> 00:44:46,840
they are there in the fourth fifth, whatever they're from here,

695
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,360
they have to be in our three D world. And

696
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:55,000
I make video game analogies a lot, so for people

697
00:44:55,039 --> 00:45:00,360
that don't quite understand what I'm saying, imagine the old

698
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:04,559
Mario game to where it was a side scroller. It's

699
00:45:04,639 --> 00:45:09,599
just two dimensions, and then now you have a different Mario,

700
00:45:09,679 --> 00:45:12,519
there's three dimensions. There's actually something you can see all

701
00:45:12,519 --> 00:45:14,360
the way around, like three hundred and sixty degrees like

702
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,039
most modern video games. That's basically like what we're seeing

703
00:45:17,119 --> 00:45:21,400
right now, the three D world. So imagine being a

704
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,239
two dimension side scroller and then you see this three

705
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,119
D thing coming in there. Well, we wouldn't understand it

706
00:45:27,119 --> 00:45:29,280
because all we know is two D. So when three

707
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,559
D comes in there, we see it as what they're

708
00:45:33,599 --> 00:45:35,280
gonna see as the three D is just because they

709
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,440
can't see anything because they're like a flat So imagine

710
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,679
something whatever the fourth dimension would be. Well, I can't

711
00:45:41,679 --> 00:45:43,800
even imagine where that would because I see everything in

712
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,239
three D. So who's to say these things don't come

713
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,280
in here and they turn into three D like us.

714
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,840
I don't know if anyone's able to understand what I'm

715
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,599
referring to, but that's it makes sense to me.

716
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm an old Nintendo guy. I get it.

717
00:46:01,519 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 4: Like the advancement from side scrolling, jumping Mario to what

718
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:10,440
video games look like today, like as a huge leap, right,

719
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,599
So that's where I'm saying, Like if our world was

720
00:46:14,639 --> 00:46:18,760
the old school Nintendo and these things come from the

721
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:23,480
PS five, it's a completely different world.

722
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:29,559
Speaker 1: And yeah, if their world is different than ours, like

723
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,039
they have all this cool three D realm and then

724
00:46:33,039 --> 00:46:35,039
we're in two D land, so we don't understand what

725
00:46:35,119 --> 00:46:36,039
three D world is.

726
00:46:37,159 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 4: Maybe that's how they have to come here and adapt

727
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,320
to our three D world.

728
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 2: It makes sense to me. I mean, I mean, that's

729
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:50,559
the only way you can come here and survive. And again,

730
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,400
I don't know what I'm talking about anymore than anybody else,

731
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,559
Just like I always try to drive home to. You know,

732
00:46:57,599 --> 00:46:59,800
I don't feel like there's a there are experts in

733
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,320
the field. We're just out here making our best guess

734
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:08,119
and trying to sort it out. But you know, it's

735
00:47:08,199 --> 00:47:13,320
like I always liking it too. Photos that people post

736
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,239
on social media, bigfoot, you know, they're outlined in red

737
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,360
and go see it right there, And then you know,

738
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,360
I try to be as nice as I can be

739
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,400
and say, you know, hey, you know, like I get it.

740
00:47:25,559 --> 00:47:28,239
I'm never going to tell you that what you're seeing,

741
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,599
what you said you saw isn't there. But what I'm

742
00:47:31,639 --> 00:47:34,599
trying to tell you is that your photo doesn't prove anything,

743
00:47:36,079 --> 00:47:39,400
you know, And that's kind of like what you're talking

744
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:43,719
about there. It's like you're taking a three dimensional object

745
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,199
and trying to make it show up on a two

746
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,320
dimensional thing, and it's just it's just not translating.

747
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:57,000
Speaker 4: I have the biggest scripe, and paradolia is a real

748
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,320
thing and for a lot of people. And I'm not

749
00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:02,320
just like you just said, I'm not going to argue

750
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,480
with people that they're not seeing or they claim they're seen.

751
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:06,719
I just personally don't see it. And I know a

752
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,760
lot of people that don't see it, But just because

753
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,440
you put red circles on a blurry photo does not

754
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,199
make it an actual bigfoot or a dog man or

755
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,679
whatever the hell you're claiming it is. But when you

756
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,199
say that to someone, not even like say it nicely,

757
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,679
like hey, I'm not seeing this, and then they get

758
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:26,639
defensive over it. And then social media has made it

759
00:48:26,639 --> 00:48:29,960
to where certain groups you can say things like that,

760
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,119
but a majority of them, because we want people to

761
00:48:32,119 --> 00:48:38,360
come forward, we embrace that. But in my stances, if

762
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:42,320
we continue to embrace every single thing without any sort

763
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:47,239
of scrutiny or any sort of logic, are we really

764
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,559
doing anything good or we're still just doing more harm

765
00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:52,159
because now we're letting people that are literally just making

766
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,400
up shit out there to put and say, oh look

767
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,199
at this, look at this every five minutes, posting photos

768
00:48:57,239 --> 00:49:01,000
of nothing, and then people going along with it and

769
00:49:01,039 --> 00:49:04,360
feeding that person's I don't want to say delusions, but

770
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,000
sometimes maybe people really do believe what they're seeing and

771
00:49:07,079 --> 00:49:11,400
it has become off of delusions and or just feeding

772
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,760
into it, and then it's spreading. So I feel like

773
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,000
even with my show, and I feel guilty about this sometimes,

774
00:49:17,039 --> 00:49:22,639
like by doing this show, am I doing more damage

775
00:49:22,679 --> 00:49:29,280
than good. But that's just being my moral compass struggles.

776
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:33,559
Speaker 2: I guess, well, yeah, I mean, that's that's and I

777
00:49:33,599 --> 00:49:37,199
mean it's honestly probably a good thing that you're questioning

778
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:40,679
yourself like that, because you know, if I'm I mean,

779
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,280
because realistically, when we step back and look at is

780
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:54,519
the amount of fraudulent posts or bs zero? Well absolutely not,

781
00:49:54,920 --> 00:50:00,159
there's absolutely that going on. Just like I feel like

782
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,800
whatever percentage you want to say it is, you know

783
00:50:05,039 --> 00:50:08,920
about this siding or that experience or whatever you could say,

784
00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:11,960
Let's say, even if it's let's say sixty percent of

785
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:17,079
them or bs, that still leaves forty percent that's okay,

786
00:50:17,199 --> 00:50:19,679
what is it? Because if you know, it was that

787
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,920
old saying and I can't remember exactly how it goes,

788
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:29,159
but you know, if if you can't, if nothing that

789
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,079
you apply to trying to figure it out is explainable,

790
00:50:32,119 --> 00:50:34,280
that that only leaves the unexplainable.

791
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:38,599
Speaker 4: So I know, I think majority of the people that

792
00:50:38,639 --> 00:50:43,320
I talk to, I tend to believe that they believe

793
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,840
what they're telling me. And that's not me saying I

794
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:52,039
don't believe them, but I try and remain ground it

795
00:50:52,119 --> 00:50:54,639
and skeptical in this because that's just how I have

796
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,480
to operate, and I try and look at everything from

797
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:03,000
a rational standpoint. So, oh, you told me you've seen

798
00:51:03,039 --> 00:51:07,199
this entity above you. You could be on making that

799
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,079
up and why. I have no idea, But that's just

800
00:51:11,119 --> 00:51:14,639
something that people could, like I'm on a podcast and

801
00:51:14,679 --> 00:51:17,719
make up a story. And then I get people sending

802
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:21,440
me emails saying that this guest is full of crap,

803
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,760
blah blah blah. Well, how do you know? Were you there?

804
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,159
I don't know if you saw this thing or not,

805
00:51:27,199 --> 00:51:30,440
but I believe that you believe it, you know what

806
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:34,079
I mean? So so where's the line. And that's I'm

807
00:51:34,079 --> 00:51:36,199
not going to tell people that know, you didn't see

808
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,480
that because I wasn't there. And I hate when people

809
00:51:38,519 --> 00:51:39,760
do that to other people.

810
00:51:39,679 --> 00:51:39,840
Speaker 2: Like.

811
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 4: I get what the absolutely I get with the photo

812
00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:48,039
aspect to it, because yes, you're presenting quote unquote evidence

813
00:51:48,559 --> 00:51:51,159
and people can't see your supposed evidence. So this is

814
00:51:51,199 --> 00:51:55,719
where I think it comes into play, is I encourage

815
00:51:55,719 --> 00:52:00,760
people to come forward, but by coming forward and producing

816
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:05,519
what you suggest as evidence, it's not actually proving anything.

817
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,960
And then they're coming off to other people, especially to

818
00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:12,480
people that are already skeptical. You're not going to change

819
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,320
their opinion based off of a blary photo of bushes

820
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:21,320
with a red circle around it. But if you come

821
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,880
on a show and say, hey, I was out in

822
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,320
the woods I saw the shadow shape moving in the

823
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:28,239
woods or whatever, I'm going to believe you probably saw

824
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,679
shadow shape moving in the woods. But that doesn't mean

825
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,079
what you think the shadow is is actually what it was.

826
00:52:35,119 --> 00:52:39,079
The shadow could have been anything, but now you've turned

827
00:52:39,119 --> 00:52:41,280
it into a story of it was a ten foot

828
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,800
tall dog man with red glowing eyes, but you just

829
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,320
said you saw a shadow, and then the story start

830
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:50,199
progressing more and more and more. Like that's when I

831
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,960
start to start and question things when people's original story

832
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:55,360
start expanding and they get bigger and bigger and bigger.

833
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:57,280
And I was like, okay, but.

834
00:52:59,039 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's the old uh, that's the old fishing story,

835
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:06,719
you know type of thing. You know, you caught a

836
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,239
six intrumento and all of a sudden, sudden, it's a

837
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,239
five pound bath type of thing. You know, I get it.

838
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:16,679
It's and I understand that, you know, like, not everybody's

839
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:21,480
gonna necessarily believe what I'm telling you. I saw and

840
00:53:21,599 --> 00:53:25,559
experienced you know. But for me, the affirmation came with

841
00:53:27,599 --> 00:53:31,800
my sister's girlfriend, without any kind of provocation or prior

842
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:36,039
knowledge to me, seeing this sleeping in my room like

843
00:53:36,079 --> 00:53:39,079
a month or two later or whatever it was, and

844
00:53:39,599 --> 00:53:41,719
her telling my sister, man, I saw this in your

845
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:46,079
brother's room last night, you know, and describing exactly what

846
00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:50,800
I saw, and my sister, you know, telling me this

847
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:54,800
agoing and I even asked her, did you tell Amanda

848
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,159
or you know, did you tell her what I saw?

849
00:53:57,199 --> 00:54:01,119
And she's no, you know, so you know that that

850
00:54:01,199 --> 00:54:05,559
to me was my validation. And it's okay if people

851
00:54:05,599 --> 00:54:11,320
don't believe me. You know, sometimes things just don't sound

852
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,679
quite right to some people, and you know, that's okay.

853
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,440
But like you said, I'm not going to ever tell

854
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:22,360
anybody you didn't see what you saw because like again,

855
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:26,440
I wasn't there, you know. But then again, you know,

856
00:54:26,639 --> 00:54:30,320
in the the reality we live in and the world

857
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,800
we live in, you know, I've heard stories about one

858
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,039
person saying, hey, man, we were standing there right next

859
00:54:36,039 --> 00:54:39,199
to each other and I saw this and they didn't.

860
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,280
So you know, I think.

861
00:54:43,599 --> 00:54:50,679
Speaker 4: I think for me and I want people to come

862
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,320
forward talk about the things they experience us. Why do

863
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:54,800
this show? I want to give people a place that

864
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:56,599
they can feel safe, come on here and talk about

865
00:54:56,599 --> 00:54:59,360
everything that they've ever experienced. It's weird that you can't

866
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,320
normally go to and be like, hey man, that I

867
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,159
experienced this last night, or this happened to me before.

868
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:07,639
I want to give people that opportunity in a place

869
00:55:07,679 --> 00:55:10,719
to where they feel comfortable to do this at because

870
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:12,760
I know what it's like not being able to do that.

871
00:55:13,599 --> 00:55:19,840
So my intense is to give that to people. Like

872
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:22,239
to try and help people, because I know sometimes you

873
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:25,079
talking about things actually makes people feel better. And then

874
00:55:25,079 --> 00:55:26,880
people out there listening, they might not want to talk

875
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:28,639
about it, but they listen they can then relate like

876
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:30,039
I can relate to that. Now I kind of feel

877
00:55:30,079 --> 00:55:33,400
better about it. So I encourage people to always come forward.

878
00:55:34,199 --> 00:55:36,280
The best advice I could give to people, though, is

879
00:55:37,599 --> 00:55:41,360
don't get hung up on the fact if people don't

880
00:55:41,599 --> 00:55:44,639
believe you, because that seems to be the struggle with

881
00:55:44,679 --> 00:55:47,519
people not wanting to come forward is because they they

882
00:55:47,559 --> 00:55:49,239
don't want people to harass and they don't want people

883
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:52,480
say in their liar. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks.

884
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,719
I know that's weird to say, like, because everyone has

885
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,880
to worry about what other people think, but it doesn't

886
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:04,679
really matter because at the end of the day, you

887
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:09,039
know what you experienced. Those people weren't there. So anyone's

888
00:56:09,079 --> 00:56:12,880
saying that this didn't happen, that's their opinion, and it

889
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,719
doesn't Their opinion shouldn't matter because you know what you experience.

890
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:18,639
And I think that's why I get so hung up

891
00:56:18,639 --> 00:56:20,039
on things, and I don't want to try in something

892
00:56:20,079 --> 00:56:24,119
like a white Night for people. But why do people

893
00:56:24,199 --> 00:56:26,239
want to tell someone they didn't experience what they say

894
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:30,280
they experienced, because again, were just hovering around like they

895
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:33,719
weren't there. They don't know. So don't worry about if

896
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:35,960
some random person on the computer that you're never going

897
00:56:36,039 --> 00:56:41,960
to know doesn't believe you, because that person doesn't matter.

898
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 2: Right, And you know, on that same topic of conversation,

899
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:56,719
I got to tell you thank you because honestly, when

900
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:59,199
you reached out to me initially, and I don't remember

901
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,159
exactly what it was, I think it was late last year,

902
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:10,440
but I had been on sabbatical from the paranormal and

903
00:57:10,679 --> 00:57:17,800
cryptid feel just because I had gotten so fed up

904
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:22,960
with the drama and the infighting that comes with some

905
00:57:23,039 --> 00:57:27,119
of these groups. And there's a lot of really great

906
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,320
people and doing a lot of really great research out there.

907
00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:34,840
And you know, I tried to tell some of these

908
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,360
people who are I was friends with that you know,

909
00:57:39,239 --> 00:57:42,920
you don't have to address everything that comes your way,

910
00:57:43,039 --> 00:57:45,400
and I, you know, it just it turned me away

911
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,800
from the field. And it really wasn't until you reached

912
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:51,679
out to me and I started thinking about again, and

913
00:57:51,719 --> 00:57:54,159
I started listening more, and I'm listening to your show,

914
00:57:54,199 --> 00:57:56,159
and I start listening to catch it up on a

915
00:57:56,159 --> 00:57:58,159
couple other shows that I used to listen to because

916
00:57:58,159 --> 00:58:03,079
I hadn't participated in the community for at least two

917
00:58:03,199 --> 00:58:08,440
years and maybe longer. And it's just I had just

918
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:14,480
got so fed up with the such harsh scrutiny that

919
00:58:14,519 --> 00:58:17,360
people were giving to each other. And it's like, you know,

920
00:58:18,719 --> 00:58:22,400
let's stop with the fighting. And you know, I thought

921
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:28,199
this was about advancing the field through research and through experience,

922
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:32,760
you know, And so again, thank you, because you know

923
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:34,559
you reach it out. It's kind of pulled me back

924
00:58:34,599 --> 00:58:38,280
into it. And I'm glad I have gotten back into

925
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:40,519
it to the degree I have, because I mean, I

926
00:58:40,679 --> 00:58:47,599
do love the community and the subject matters. So I

927
00:58:48,079 --> 00:58:48,840
appreciate you.

928
00:58:50,599 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 4: I'm just a guy with a microphone trying to give

929
00:58:53,039 --> 00:58:56,199
people a place to talk. But I'm glad we're able

930
00:58:56,199 --> 00:59:00,920
to get in touch. But yeah, I was going to ask,

931
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:03,559
is there anything else you want to talk about?

932
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:11,159
Speaker 2: Well, I had an experience. This was about seven years

933
00:59:11,159 --> 00:59:22,440
ago in New Haven, Indiana, and so I'll tell you

934
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:26,800
the story that I'll get into it after the particulars afterwards.

935
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:33,039
So at the time, I was staying in New Haven

936
00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:37,360
and there was a pool out in the back, and

937
00:59:39,119 --> 00:59:41,760
a lot of times I would go out really late

938
00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:44,880
when everybody was sleeping, you know, twelve one, two o'clock

939
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,960
in the morning, and I'd go float in the pool

940
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,519
and turn on a podcast or something and listen to it.

941
00:59:51,719 --> 00:59:56,840
You know, I've always kind of thought that was relaxing

942
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:08,880
and fun. During this particular few evenings, I had noticed

943
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:14,719
that won't hear any frogs, no crickets, no nothing. It

944
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:19,320
was just quiet, which is kind of unusual in the summertime,

945
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:26,199
you know, in mid late June, and it just seems

946
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,719
you know, knowing what I know, I was like, that's weird.

947
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:31,840
But I didn't think nothing. I was I'm out there

948
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:36,679
I'm trying to relax. Well, where I was staying is

949
01:00:38,559 --> 01:00:42,239
there's a sizeable ditch that was once part of the

950
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:51,119
old Wabash Aery Canal system, and that actually goes all

951
01:00:51,159 --> 01:00:54,119
the way down and hits the uh Mammie River about

952
01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:58,119
three quarters of a mile from where we were at.

953
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:06,159
And uh so I'm out there one night and the

954
01:01:06,199 --> 01:01:09,960
backyard has got a privacy fence around it, but however,

955
01:01:12,239 --> 01:01:15,039
portions of the fence have came down in a storm,

956
01:01:15,239 --> 01:01:22,920
and we're laying flat and through the quiet. The first night,

957
01:01:23,039 --> 01:01:31,559
I heard a couple tree branches break, and you know,

958
01:01:31,559 --> 01:01:34,079
knowing what I've heard what I've heard, I got curious.

959
01:01:34,119 --> 01:01:38,960
So I got a pooled tried off and I was

960
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,360
hearing a little bit of movement. I couldn't tell where

961
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:44,079
it was coming from. But as soon as I cleared

962
01:01:44,119 --> 01:01:46,480
the fence to where I was exposed and could be seen,

963
01:01:46,519 --> 01:01:50,119
it just went hush. I was like, oh, that's weird.

964
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:52,840
And I stood there for you know, five or ten

965
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,280
minutes whatever it was, didn't see any movement, didn't see anything.

966
01:01:56,360 --> 01:02:01,639
I says, okay, whatever, maybe it was just whatever. Go

967
01:02:01,719 --> 01:02:03,679
back in the house. Next night, I come back out

968
01:02:03,679 --> 01:02:09,719
and do the same thing, and I had another tree

969
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:14,719
snap and it was a loud one. So I go

970
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,639
back out to where the end of the fences and

971
01:02:17,679 --> 01:02:21,719
step past where the fence should have been, and there's

972
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,440
a cluster of trees over one of the neighbor's yards

973
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,280
that's maybe twenty foot in diameters filled with weeds, you know,

974
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:35,719
And I get maybe thirty feet from it, and I

975
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:42,559
hear this growl and I felt it. It was loud,

976
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:52,519
very basy. I don't know what it was. I didn't

977
01:02:52,559 --> 01:02:58,719
actually see anything. I just it frightened me and I

978
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:01,519
just stopped. Didn't have a flashlight or anything they could

979
01:03:01,559 --> 01:03:06,159
reach over there for me to see anyway, as I

980
01:03:06,199 --> 01:03:09,960
had was my phone with me, and of course I

981
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,320
didn't think to pull it out and hit record or anything.

982
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:16,880
But like I froze, like it was like kind of

983
01:03:17,639 --> 01:03:21,559
instant fear, Like it was kind of I interpreted it

984
01:03:21,679 --> 01:03:26,760
as like you need to stop, don't come any closer.

985
01:03:27,639 --> 01:03:33,400
And I've kind of went over this, however, many times

986
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:44,440
since it's happened, and again not knowing, not seeing anything,

987
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:51,119
you know, maybe it's was my imagination. I don't know.

988
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,480
All I can say to you is that I know

989
01:03:54,559 --> 01:03:56,599
I heard the growl. I know I felt the growl,

990
01:03:58,159 --> 01:04:01,679
and my gut makes me feel like it was maybe

991
01:04:01,719 --> 01:04:04,679
a dog man, But I don't know that. And the

992
01:04:04,719 --> 01:04:09,320
reason I say that is because through all the stories

993
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:13,920
and the research and the listening that I've done, you know,

994
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,840
you always hear about them next to waterways or close

995
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:20,360
to cemeteries. Well, this ditch goes right past the cemetery,

996
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:26,239
not three hundred yards from us, and then connects to

997
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,400
the Maumee River, which is, you know, pretty major river

998
01:04:29,519 --> 01:04:34,760
up this way. So yeah, I don't know. I mean,

999
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,960
all I know is that's that's what happened. And it

1000
01:04:40,039 --> 01:04:44,320
was kind of freaky. I almost, you know, part of

1001
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:47,159
me wishes I had seen something so I knew what

1002
01:04:47,239 --> 01:04:50,079
it was. I just know that I wasn't getting any

1003
01:04:50,079 --> 01:04:53,719
closer to that clump of that twenty foot diameter clump

1004
01:04:53,760 --> 01:05:01,280
of trees that just it was instant froze. And after

1005
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:04,079
sitting there for a few minutes, I just backed away

1006
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:06,719
until I got back inside to where the fence would be,

1007
01:05:07,599 --> 01:05:09,800
and then once I was about fifty yards away, I

1008
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:11,480
just turned them what went back to the house.

1009
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:17,960
Speaker 4: It's hard to know exactly what something is, especially with

1010
01:05:18,039 --> 01:05:23,480
just a growl. But I feel like for what I've

1011
01:05:24,119 --> 01:05:28,159
talked with other people about, again it's me just spitballing.

1012
01:05:29,840 --> 01:05:33,719
But when it comes to a lot of the cases

1013
01:05:33,719 --> 01:05:37,719
with dog Man, you're overran with a sense of fear.

1014
01:05:39,599 --> 01:05:43,039
I don't know if that's them projecting that on you.

1015
01:05:43,119 --> 01:05:45,280
A lot of people say they feed on that type

1016
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,239
of stuff, which again I don't know how anyone really

1017
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:51,559
knows that, but but all the stuff I've ever heard

1018
01:05:51,559 --> 01:05:57,639
about dog Man are usually they're evil. They usually around waterways,

1019
01:05:57,719 --> 01:06:01,679
around cemeteries, again, like you'd mentioned, and a lot of

1020
01:06:01,679 --> 01:06:07,920
the time they feed on human fear, which might be true,

1021
01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:11,760
might not be true. Who knows. But when you're hearing something.

1022
01:06:13,599 --> 01:06:15,639
We live in Indiana, so a lot of people are like, oh,

1023
01:06:15,639 --> 01:06:19,320
it could have been a dog, could have been anything.

1024
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:25,639
But I feel like for most people, you can kind

1025
01:06:25,639 --> 01:06:28,239
of get a sense of size of something, especially from

1026
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:34,599
the growl. Now, when you heard a growling, did it

1027
01:06:34,639 --> 01:06:36,480
was it more of a like a low rumbly growl

1028
01:06:36,519 --> 01:06:37,400
or how what was it?

1029
01:06:38,199 --> 01:06:43,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was. It was very guttural, like it wasn't

1030
01:06:43,840 --> 01:06:47,519
just audible. I felt it mm hmm. I could feel

1031
01:06:47,519 --> 01:06:51,800
it rattle my chest a little bit, which is what

1032
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:55,079
gave me pause and made me scared because I was like,

1033
01:06:55,159 --> 01:07:00,360
that's I mean, I'd literally been chased by the neighbor

1034
01:07:00,360 --> 01:07:05,320
over there's pitbull or mastiff, you know, a couple of

1035
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,840
times when they've gotten out, and that's a nice sized

1036
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:12,400
dog and I've heard him bark and growl, and it

1037
01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:17,400
was nothing like that. So and especially at like one

1038
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:21,519
o'clock in the morning. So but again I go back

1039
01:07:21,559 --> 01:07:30,159
to there were no insects, There were no there was nothing.

1040
01:07:30,159 --> 01:07:32,480
It was just quiet. And you know, you just don't

1041
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:34,719
get quiet like that in June in Indiana.

1042
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:41,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, usually there are some sort of noises, especially out

1043
01:07:41,679 --> 01:07:46,480
at night time. Here. I can hear frogs, I can

1044
01:07:46,519 --> 01:07:50,280
hear crickets, I can hear all sorts of things. And

1045
01:07:51,159 --> 01:07:53,360
I don't think have everyone outside had not heard something.

1046
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:56,599
So the complete silence, I think is one of the

1047
01:07:56,639 --> 01:08:00,639
creepier aspects of stuff, is when everything just goes dead silent.

1048
01:08:03,679 --> 01:08:08,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it wasn't. I think that was the last

1049
01:08:08,199 --> 01:08:10,199
summer I lived over there, because I was staying with

1050
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:12,559
family at the time before I bought this home I

1051
01:08:12,599 --> 01:08:18,960
live in now. And I've actually asked them since then.

1052
01:08:19,079 --> 01:08:22,279
I said, how often do you go outside, you don't

1053
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:25,159
hear anything, and hardly ever, but there's usually about two

1054
01:08:25,159 --> 01:08:28,319
weeks during every summer since then where they're like, it's

1055
01:08:28,359 --> 01:08:32,760
always quiet for a couple of weeks. They don't like,

1056
01:08:33,159 --> 01:08:36,479
you know, they don't know why, but you know, and

1057
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:39,760
like my sister, she don't believe in that stuff. She's like,

1058
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:41,960
she'll listen to me and she goes, oh, that's interesting,

1059
01:08:42,039 --> 01:08:48,359
and but you know, you know, even she was like, yeah,

1060
01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:50,279
she goes, oh, it's kind of weird. She goes. Sometimes

1061
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:54,199
you know, for a week or two, you just don't

1062
01:08:54,199 --> 01:08:56,880
hear anything out here. And I honestly so I don't

1063
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:00,319
know if it's like a something that's coming through it

1064
01:09:00,359 --> 01:09:05,520
a particular time of year or what you know. And

1065
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:10,199
again I didn't see it. So maybe hearing and feeling

1066
01:09:10,239 --> 01:09:14,159
that I'm just putting two and the puzzle pieces together

1067
01:09:14,199 --> 01:09:16,399
based on the things that I've heard, and you know,

1068
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:18,960
maybe it's me wanting that to be a dog man.

1069
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:23,479
I don't know. I just know that's what I experienced,

1070
01:09:24,279 --> 01:09:31,079
and it was very it was kind of unnerving, you know.

1071
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:33,880
But again, you know, on top of that, I'm also

1072
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:39,039
objective enough and willing to listen, if somebody gives me

1073
01:09:39,079 --> 01:09:42,079
an alternative that makes sense, and I, you know, I

1074
01:09:42,159 --> 01:09:44,359
might go, yeah, well that makes more sense than what

1075
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:49,840
I thought it was, you know. So, but it was

1076
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:55,760
just it was pretty bizarre, not anything I ever expected there,

1077
01:09:56,279 --> 01:09:58,479
and you know, and little old New Haven.

1078
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:06,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, I, like I said, it's hard to ever know

1079
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:10,920
unless someone actually sees it particalarly walk out.

1080
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:12,840
Speaker 1: In front of them or.

1081
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:17,800
Speaker 4: Something like that. It's but the feeling of the rumbley

1082
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:20,479
growl and everything that's very telling in the sense that

1083
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:24,479
that's usually common with like Bigfoot and dog Man type encounters.

1084
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:28,000
So it could have been either one who knows.

1085
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 2: It could be I'm open to that possibility. Yeah, that's

1086
01:10:36,479 --> 01:10:40,760
you know, it's just again with like anything I ever experienced,

1087
01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:44,680
I just, you know, like we talked about before, like

1088
01:10:45,119 --> 01:10:46,960
I wasn't looking for it. I went out to float

1089
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:50,319
in the pool and listen to a podcast and try

1090
01:10:50,359 --> 01:10:55,680
to relax, and you know, something presented itself to me

1091
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:57,159
and I don't know what it was exactly.

1092
01:10:58,079 --> 01:11:03,520
Speaker 4: Mm hmm. I think that's the mystery of life is

1093
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,079
sometimes we'll know and sometimes we never will know. I've

1094
01:11:06,079 --> 01:11:08,279
been searching for answers for eighteen years, and I have

1095
01:11:08,319 --> 01:11:10,600
a feeling I'll never know, and that's what drives me crazy.

1096
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:14,560
But that's why I do what I do too, always

1097
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:15,520
searching for answers.

1098
01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:22,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, I'm the same way. I don't

1099
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:24,680
know if I mentioned it before. I get into this

1100
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:28,920
stuff to satisfy my own curiosity. I could care less

1101
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:31,840
about presenting it to the world and becoming famous, Like,

1102
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:35,119
you know, I want to experience these things because it's

1103
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:40,880
I want to know, you know. And again, like I said,

1104
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:42,800
my sister doesn't believe in any of this stuff. And

1105
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:47,079
then she asked me a question that I thought was

1106
01:11:47,119 --> 01:11:49,159
a great question that nobody had ever asked me before.

1107
01:11:49,279 --> 01:11:51,399
She says, she says, you go out in the woods

1108
01:11:51,399 --> 01:11:54,119
and you look for these things, and she says, what

1109
01:11:54,159 --> 01:11:55,880
are you going to do if you actually see it?

1110
01:11:57,479 --> 01:12:02,119
And I never thought about that before. And my honest

1111
01:12:02,279 --> 01:12:03,960
answer to her was, I said, well, one of two

1112
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:06,920
things are going to happen. I said, Either I'm going

1113
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,239
to put the subject down and I'm never going to

1114
01:12:09,239 --> 01:12:11,880
touch it again, or I'm going to go deeper down

1115
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:16,479
a rabbit hole. I don't see any two options besides that.

1116
01:12:18,319 --> 01:12:21,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's one of those things like once you start

1117
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:25,680
going down, it's hard to get out of it. Well,

1118
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,439
we've been going on for about an hour, little over

1119
01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:31,039
an hour and ten minutes now, So is there's anything

1120
01:12:31,079 --> 01:12:32,760
else you'd like to talk about? We can or we

1121
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:35,000
can go ahead and start wrapping this one up.

1122
01:12:36,199 --> 01:12:38,359
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm good. I think we've covered a lot.

1123
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:43,159
Speaker 4: Well again, Chris, it's been a pleasure having you on here.

1124
01:12:43,199 --> 01:12:46,399
I always enjoy talking to fellow Hoosiers, so that's when

1125
01:12:46,399 --> 01:12:47,359
only want to say thank you.

1126
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:51,600
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me. I love sitting down and

1127
01:12:51,640 --> 01:12:56,920
talking about all things creepy, so it's definitely a passion

1128
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:57,239
of mine.

1129
01:12:58,199 --> 01:13:00,720
Speaker 4: Well, if you have any more experiences up, you know

1130
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:01,560
how to get ahold of me?

1131
01:13:02,439 --> 01:13:04,640
Speaker 2: I sure do, you'd be the first to know.

1132
01:13:05,079 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 4: Awesome. Thank you, all right, thank you. If you'd like

1133
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:11,119
to be a guest on Tenfoil Tells, remember to send

1134
01:13:11,119 --> 01:13:13,960
an email to Tenfoil Telles Podcast at gmail dot com

1135
01:13:14,079 --> 01:13:15,920
or go to Tinfoil Tales dot com and go to

1136
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:18,199
the contact section. Make sure to follow me around on

1137
01:13:18,239 --> 01:13:21,479
all the social media's and just remember truth comes at

1138
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:23,640
a cost. Are you willing to pay the price.

1139
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:33,279
Speaker 3: I've heard a story be laid last night about something

1140
01:13:33,319 --> 01:13:38,920
alert along a woodline, You foot prints, strange lights in

1141
01:13:39,039 --> 01:13:42,840
the sky. They claim it's nothing, but I know they

1142
01:13:43,239 --> 01:13:48,880
light it seasier last to lap in my face. But

1143
01:13:49,159 --> 01:13:52,520
something about this makes me say.

1144
01:13:52,319 --> 01:13:53,279
Speaker 2: What if it's real?

1145
01:13:54,279 --> 01:13:55,279
Speaker 4: What if they knew?

1146
01:13:56,239 --> 01:14:02,159
Speaker 3: What if the answers are coming from you, spending stores,

1147
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:07,279
wasting my time? Hearing boy it says, is it all

1148
01:14:07,319 --> 01:14:10,800
in their minds? They can call me crazy, but I

1149
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:12,680
just want some froom.

1150
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:16,119
Speaker 2: What if it's true? What if it's really?

1151
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,479
Speaker 3: What if it's true? What it for?

1152
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:21,720
Speaker 4: Worlds not what we knew?

1153
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:26,319
Speaker 2: Tim for tales blend me a.

1154
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:29,680
Speaker 3: Story that starts where the line is gets.

1155
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:31,800
Speaker 4: What if it's really?

1156
01:14:32,359 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 3: What if it's true? The answers are.

1157
01:14:35,359 --> 01:14:37,359
Speaker 1: Waiting, They're waiting for you.

1158
01:14:38,439 --> 01:14:41,439
Speaker 3: They see if the dog man walking, or maybe am

1159
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:46,359
offman flies. I love the fairy giants hidden beneath the flies.

1160
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:48,600
Speaker 2: They say it's just stories.

1161
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:53,279
Speaker 3: It's all they believe, the fairy tale sport of things

1162
01:14:53,319 --> 01:14:54,199
we can't perceive.

1163
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 4: They won't keep us blindly, they.

1164
01:14:56,960 --> 01:15:00,119
Speaker 2: Won't break our wheel. But I'm not buying it.

1165
01:15:00,279 --> 01:15:05,079
Speaker 3: I'm not slowing another pill for sped poison. The lies

1166
01:15:05,079 --> 01:15:07,640
were made to what if.

1167
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:09,319
Speaker 2: The truth had set us free.

1168
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:16,119
Speaker 3: The aliens suse traveling through time, secret space programs, racing

1169
01:15:16,319 --> 01:15:20,239
their minds. They call them crazy, but I just need

1170
01:15:20,319 --> 01:15:20,880
some fruit.

1171
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:24,840
Speaker 4: What if it's true? What if it's real?

1172
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:29,680
Speaker 1: What if it's true? What if the worlds not what

1173
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:30,399
we do?

1174
01:15:31,359 --> 01:15:34,399
Speaker 2: Tim Oil tells fully me in.

1175
01:15:35,039 --> 01:15:38,560
Speaker 3: A story that starts where the logic iss.

1176
01:15:39,439 --> 01:15:40,960
Speaker 2: What if it's real?

1177
01:15:41,119 --> 01:15:42,399
Speaker 4: What if it's true?

1178
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:46,119
Speaker 3: The answers are waiting, They're weighing for you.

1179
01:15:47,199 --> 01:15:52,239
Speaker 2: They lie, We all can die. The signs are there

1180
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:54,279
if you open your eyes.

1181
01:15:55,199 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 3: Aliens cricked its demon's ghost, the devil them too.

1182
01:16:00,119 --> 01:16:01,039
Speaker 2: What if it's mean?

1183
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:05,119
Speaker 4: Or what if it's true? What if it's real?

1184
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:07,079
Speaker 3: What if it's true?

1185
01:16:07,960 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 2: What if the world's not what we to do?

1186
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:16,479
Speaker 4: Tenfoil tells fully me a story.

1187
01:16:16,199 --> 01:16:21,199
Speaker 1: That starts wear the logic. What if it's read?

1188
01:16:21,399 --> 01:16:22,760
Speaker 2: What if it's true?

1189
01:16:23,159 --> 01:16:26,439
Speaker 4: The answers are waiting, They're waiting for you.

1190
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:31,680
Speaker 2: It's all in our heads, it's always our binders. These

1191
01:16:31,760 --> 01:16:36,560
voices can be silence. The truth must rise. Temple tell

1192
01:16:37,359 --> 01:16:38,600
it's pulling me true?

1193
01:16:39,359 --> 01:16:44,199
Speaker 4: What if it's reading? What if it's true,