Speaker 1: And I just turned around and I call ass out
of there.
Speaker 2: I was done. I wasn't deal with them. The hypocrisy
of the cult is one of the things that turned
me away the quickest. When I turned my head lights on,
it turned and looked at us. And one of the
things I remember the most, where the eyes were glowing red.
I see an orb of light. It is just circling
these steps.
Speaker 3: Like it is waiting for me. And he begins to
tell them that he saw UFO.
Speaker 2: They're basically like, what are you talking about.
Speaker 3: That's seven foot up on a tree, peeking around it,
and that's where I saw the top of the muzzle,
nose and the eyes.
Speaker 2: As soon as I made eye contact with this.
Speaker 4: Thing, I don't like death. Welcome back to Tinfoil Tells.
I'm your host Brandon. Tonight, we're going to be joined
by my guest Chris. Chris, thanks for coming on here
and talking with me.
Speaker 2: Hey, thanks for having me.
Speaker 4: Would you like to let the audience know a little
bit about yourself.
Speaker 1: My name is Chris.
Speaker 2: I am forty six years old, live up here in
northeast Indiana and Allen County. Got three kids, all teenagers,
just live in our little slice of the dream here
and dipping my toes into the strange and unusual when
I have time and I do little bits of field
trips when I hear about, you know, certain paranormal things
if I have time and just kind of do it
for my own curiosity.
Speaker 4: I don't know what influencehould do get into this, but
there's usually something. But before we bring that up, I
wanted to mention that I appreciate and enjoy talking to
fellow Indiana residents. So for all the Hoosiers out there,
I get a lot of comments from people from Indiana
that are always happy to hear more stories from Indiana.
So definitely appreciate you coming on here talking to me.
Speaker 2: Oh, no problem. I love hearing about things that are
in our state and especially close to home.
Speaker 4: That is the one thing that I do enjoy the
most is when I get to talk to people that
are fairly close just because it resonates more with me.
I'm like, well, I'm not the only one from around
here seeing.
Speaker 2: Stuff, so yeah, yeah, I agree. It kind of drives
at home and makes it more relatable in some way.
Speaker 4: To some people, they claim it makes it more real.
They don't like that I was like, well, for me,
as like, it just confirms it. I'm not crazy. I
might be crazy, but not in this instance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's fair. I mean, some of the things
that some of us are seeing and experiencing our you know,
for a lack of a better term, they are crazy,
you know, because we were always taught some of these
things shouldn't exist.
Speaker 4: All right, What led you down the path that you're
on now? Like, what got you into all of this
weird activity, all this weird stuff.
Speaker 2: It probably started out when I was little. My mom
was really big into horror movies, and honestly, I think
the first quote unquote scary movie I can remember watching
was Legend of Boggy Creek, and you know that, you know,
at seven years old, just freaked me out beyond you
know that that was hard to wrap my head around.
And it kind of just kind of trickle into a
fascination from there. And then you start hearing about ghost stories,
and then you know, eventually you're my dad, let me
watch The Exorcist entirely too young of an age, and
uh uh, you know, and it's just my curiosity just
got the better of me when it along the way,
you know, the pre Internet, the best we could do
were the library and if you were lucky, you got
to get the Mysteries of the Unknown time life books
or something like that, you know, and uh, which we
did have growing up, so you know, that was a
good resource. And then you know, those things just kind
of suck in and once, once the internet became a thing,
you know, it just made it easy to start finding
more stories and you know, oh, hey, this happened here,
that happened there, And you know, next thing, you know,
you're finding about stuff that happened down the street from.
Speaker 4: You, right that the stories that you hear from down
the street. Then you start to creep you out a
little bit more.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, because you're like, hey, I walked by that
house you know, ten times a week or whatever, and
you know you had no idea something like that happened there. Yeah,
it's wild.
Speaker 4: Well, what are some of the things you've experienced that
you'd like to share with us tonight?
Speaker 2: Well, excuse me. The the first notable thing that I
can remember happening to me, and this was, you know, I'm
probably fourteen fifteen years old, I would say neighborhood friends
and I you know, we kind of got into the
whole Wiji board thing, which you know, hindsight being what
it is, that was a terrible idea.
Speaker 4: But it always starts with the board, right.
Speaker 2: But I can distinctly remember one instance we were messing
with it, and you know, I flicked the bic and
the other guy he said, you know, hey, if this
is real, make this flame shoot up. And you know,
sure enough that things shot up about eight ten inches
and freaked us all out for the night. We were done.
But really what that led to was I was laying
in bed one night having trouble sleeping, and I noticed
this figure standing over me, skeletal face, just absolutely terrifying,
and like it was so big that if you ran,
like you imagine the flats of your shoulder blades going across.
It was hunched over, but its shoulder blades were flat
against the ceiling, and I would close my eyes, and
every time I closed my eyes and opened them, it
would be two inches from my face, and then it
would slowly recede back up to the ceiling and it
would just stare at me. And this maybe went on
for fifteen twenty minutes until I could actually manage to
fall asleep and The only thing I could take from
it at the moment was that it was just it
was evil, it was just I don't know what its
attentions were at this point, it's been so long it
would be speculation. But I remember the next day pulling
my sister aside, and you know, she's about a year
younger and I am, and I told her, you know,
this is what happened. This is what I saw. You know,
it was pretty detailed, and she convinced me that it
was like, yeah, it was a dreamer was this and him?
And I said, okay, you know, and I kind of
wrote it off, but the validation to it came, you know,
a couple of months later, I had went to my
mom's for the weekend and one of her girlfriends spent
the night and slept in my room, which I didn't
know about until I got home, and my sister pulls
me out. She's like, I kind of all freaked out.
She said, you're not gonna believe this. And I said,
what she says, you know, so and so saw the
exact same thing sleeping in your room, and it did
the exact same thing to her that it did to you.
And you know, that's when I proceeded to tell my sister,
you know, like, see, I told you it wasn't crazy,
you know. And the same thing is just it just
evoked fear, it was, you know, right, I. I just
I've always chalked it up to being something demonic. That's
what I felt in my heart. That's what I felt
in a moment. And uh, I'm absolutely positively sure it's
because we were messing with that Ouiji board and you
know that, and you know, being an emotional teenager with
doubts and this and that and whatever else, like we
all did that back then, you know, I think it
just fed into it. No.
Speaker 4: I when it comes to wigi board stuff, that is
the one thing that I have never messed with, and
I don't have any intentions of messing with. I don't
know if it's just because of my upbringing, but I
never thought there's anything good comes from aig board.
Speaker 2: I mean, we didn't have any We weren't a very
religious family. There wasn't weekly trips to church, you know,
right back in fact of the matter is, growing up, the
only time we went to church is when somebody got
married or somebody died. Yeah, And and you know back then,
you know, just like today they sell weugy boards at Walmart,
you know. And in fact, the one we were using,
my grandma had at her house. It was stacked in
the closet with her all her board games. So you know,
we thought, oh, well, grandma got it. They can't be
that big a deal, you know, So we we would
get it out and play it, and you know, if
we knew she was going out of town, we'd snag
it for the weekend or something. And you know, I
think we probably spent the entire summer doing it, you know,
almost definitely weekly, but sometimes three four times a week. Yeah.
I just.
Speaker 4: For even at forty something years old, now, I I'm
still too superstitious.
Speaker 2: So well, sperience and some other things have just taught
me to that, you know, these things aren't good and
that you know, you listen to some of these other
guests on other podcasts and they'll swear there's nothing wrong
with it, and you know, more power to them, and
you know, I'm glad that maybe somebody's having a positive
experience with it, but I just I would never dare
consider touching money. And in fact, I've told my kids
growing as they've grown up, you know that, you know,
don't don't mess with these It's just there's nothing that
good's going to come from it.
Speaker 4: No, So not to hijack anything. But I recently got
a bunch of paranormals, like some cameras and some meters
and the other thing I got for this documentary as
a spirit box. And one of the rules that I've
always heard is you don't do any of the stuff
in the place you live in. And I turned on
the spirit box and I made sure it was scanning,
and then I didn't say things, so I turned it off.
And then my son asked me, He's like, is that
the thing that like the ghost talked to you through?
So I said yes, my wife didn't want me to
mess with it, and he said try it out. I
was like, okay, So I turned it back on and
I asked as like as anyone out there. Within five seconds,
we hear hello in a lady's voice, and I just
instantly clicked it off. I was like, yeah, this is
why you don't try that stuff.
Speaker 2: At home, right, yeah? And you know, and really, until
you were telling that, I hadn't really considered that those
things are basically just digital wigi boards.
Speaker 4: Right, that's kind of when you were talking about wigie boards,
Like this is literally the same concept that you're asking questions,
and now it's just saying things in frequency voices.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean I'm guilty of it. I've played
with them, you know, I've downloaded the apps and tried
them at home and tried them at work, and you know,
I don't know what kind of the I don't know
how good the ones are that you put on your
phone are, but they're definitely interesting.
Speaker 4: Right. So this one just scans the radio frequencies like
a little handheld radio thing. So I don't know right
the concept behind it other than it just scan through
all these frequency ranges for like radio stations. But it's
just weird enough to me that it's I'm not going
to mess with it. I'm going to take it somewhere
else and use it, but I'm not going to use
it at home.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's uh, probably a good idea that that's one
of the reasons why I haven't ever go feet first
into the field like I've wanted to, just because I've
always been afraid that I was bringing I would bring
something home and I didn't want something to come home
and attach itself to my kids.
Speaker 4: That's exactly the reasons why I don't do anything like that.
I'm already leary enough to go out into the woods
to do this documentary and hopefully whatever we potentially get
interactions with doesn't want to come home either. But I've
got preparations to quote unquote bless us and protect us
and stuff like that, so we will go out and
hopefully not have to worry about any of that.
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good thing. I hope it works out.
Speaker 4: But more back to your experiences. What are some of
the other things that you've dealt with.
Speaker 2: Well, the first experience I talked about, I think really
was kind of like a springboard, and I believe I
had an attachment due to that, a negative attachment, because
off and on for years, well into adulthood. You know,
I would see shadow figures out of the corner of
my eye, this dart and over here, that dart and
over there. You know, you hear the occasional knocks you some,
but eventually things would start to progress, and for me,
I would start hearing heavy breathing, like very deliberate, like
you know, a deep inhale and a strong exhale, just
like on a steady clip. That's how it went. And
that particular set of circumstances culminated. I was living in
a small town just outside of Fort Wayne called Monroeville,
and you know, it was a kind of a difficult
time in my life, a lot of emotion due to,
you know, my marriage kind of falling apart. We were
new parents, our kids were young, you know, they had
all those stresses and same thing. Going to bed, it
was late August, so it was warm, but it wasn't
like blazing hot. So I opened the windows up and
had the fan on and I laid down and I
typically going to sleep, will lay face down, and then
I start hearing the breathing, which at this period of time,
I had been hearing it more frequently, and I was
trying to ignore it. And then something different happened. And
this is the first time I'd experienced this. And what
had happened was it was so strange. It was kind
of like on some of the movies you see. And
I don't know if it's because they got it right
or they just chance, but the total ambience of the
room changeing. It literally got cold. I wouldn't say, see
your breath cold, but it was noticeably cold, like a
good ten to fifteen degree temperature drop. And I'm like
asking myself, like, you know, like okay, I start to
get up, and that's when I feel a hand grab
the back of my head force it down onto the bed,
and then literally right behind my ear, I hear this
growl in about that time I shot up, and about
the time I shot up, temperature of the room went
back to normal. I couldn't hear that breathing, that deliberate
breathing anymore. And I'm sitting there and I'm literally talking
out loud to myself, going nope, nope, no, nope, but
like this did not just happen to me. And I
get up, go to the bathroom. I'm just trying to
shake it off. I come back, I said, you know,
forget about it. I lay down, and it starts all
over again, the breathing, the temperature starts to drop again.
And about that point I didn't give it much more time,
and I just got up and I said, no, I'm
sleeping on a couch at tonight, you know. And that
was that was the extent of that particular experience. But
that was that by far, which probably the most terrifying
one I've ever had, like to have something, you know,
I believe in these things. I even prior to this,
you know, as so many of us do. You don't
necessarily experience these violent these violent things, and yet when
but we choose to believe because you hear the sincerity
in somebody's voice and you see the emotion in their
eyes when they're telling it, if they're willing to tell you,
and I'm it just I couldn't even talk about it
for a few years, and it was it just really
kind of changed everything for me because like I like
I believed it. I went from yes, I believe it's
real too, I know it's real, and that's such a
powerful thing.
Speaker 4: No, I get it. That's that's the struggle I think
a lot of people have is actually accepting the idea
that they things are real. Stuff that you've experienced is
actually real. As much as we try and write it
off or not want to accept it, you sometimes just
can't you come to terms with it. And that's where
the struggle actually begins.
Speaker 2: Right because nobody in my family believes these things like
I do. You know, even my mom who was always
into the spookier side of things. You know, I tried
to talk about to her about it once before she died,
and you know, she's like, oh, you just had a dream,
and you know it was trying to get me to
write it off. Is it? It was nothing? And you know,
it's not till you start really having a conversation with
somebody that's been through it that they go you start
to feel like you can open up to talk about
it because they've experienced it themselves. And that's really what
it took for me to get comfortable with it.
Speaker 4: Right. Yeah, how old were you when this happened?
Speaker 2: Oh? I was probably mid thirties, thirty four to thirty five.
Speaker 4: Okay, so about ten fifteen years ago. I think you
said you're forty six, forty seven. Yeah, I'm forty six,
so about ten years ago roughly.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And it was about that time the place
I was working, not just where I was working, it
was everywhere I went. It was the grocery store, it
was any department store. I was seeing shadow figures everywhere
I went, And it was i'd total movement out of
the cordam right eye a knock, you know, right as
I passed a certain spot and it was that was
a really dark dark time for me. And like I said,
it was, I chalk it up to the emotions of
my marriage falling apart and having young kids and you're
trying to navigate that part of your life and the
stresses of paying the bills and everything else. And I
just think whatever that I believe attached itself to me
Yell in years prior was feeding off of my doubt
and my fear, and it was if I didn't know
any better, I would say, I think it was maybe
demonic oppression.
Speaker 4: I wonder this is just me spitball. But you talk
about like an attachment. I wonder if whatever it was
it was looking over your bed isn't the same thing
and it just has just been falling like it's been
attached to you.
Speaker 2: I've wondered that myself, and I don't know. I mean,
it would make sense, But the best honest answer I
give you is I don't know, right, And I guess
maybe because it's when the other things have happened, like
being held in my bedroom, like I was absolutely terrified,
But the fear I saw when I saw that entity
when I was at fifteen, fourteen fifteen. That was it,
just it was kind of a different kind of fear,
like the thing I saw standing over my bed. I
feel like it was it was with me for the
sake of grewing with me. Like it was like getting
off on it, you know what I mean, like feeding
off that fear.
Speaker 4: I was emanating that did that thing that was looking
over you, did you notice if it had any sort
of definitive like shapes or anything like that that you
could pick up.
Speaker 2: It absolutely had a skeletal face. It was like I'm
not going to say on like a like a a
traditional skeleton look to it, but kind of like sunk
very dark sunken ice sockets and everything else was kind
of grayish black, and everything around it was just black
to a certain point, you know, within maybe a foot
or two of it. It was just the darkest dark.
And yeah, that's I mean, that's what I remember of it.
It's been so long, you know, you know, it's not
one of these things I talk about super frequently because
I mean, it just doesn't affect me like it used to.
Speaker 4: Were you able to move it all or you kind
of like almost I want to say frozen, but almost
like sleep paralysis with it.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know, simply because I've never really
thought about that.
Speaker 4: The lead go ahead, the leading over and like looking
at you type stuff reminds me of very like a
lot of hat Man. That's why I was asking about
the shape if did you seem like a hat type
shape to it. A lot of the hat Man stories
that I've been coming up, like stuff I've researched and
things that people have told me. Usually they feel like
their body can't move, and the thing's usually looking over
at them, it's close to their face, and there's a
lot of similarities with that. So when you were saying
that earlier, the first thing I started thinking about was
I wonder if it was like a hat Man type entity.
I don't know what they are. I just know many
many people report a lot of similar characteristics as to
what you were describing.
Speaker 2: It very well could have been something like that. I
don't recall seeing a hat, but it could have been
because I was just so stone cold focused on the
face that I just don't remember one. So yeah, I
mean that's a very real possibility.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I have no idea what they are. I just
know that a lot of people report like I think
I may have had my own too, But I don't
know if they're evil. I don't know what they are.
I don't know anything about them. I've talked to people
have different opinions, but I don't honestly think anyone really knows.
So it is just kind of a guessing.
Speaker 2: Game, right, And Yeah, I've often wondered how many experiences
that individuals have where maybe that we think something's evil
is maybe it's not. It's just because we're so scared
because we've never experienced anything like that before.
Speaker 4: I think, and this is not to alienate myself from
a lot of people, but I think what our interpretations
of evil is could vary differently from something else. So
let's just say these things. We're given guidelines to our
reality as to what has been put in front of
us of what's good and evil. So we interpret things
as good and evil based off of what we believe
is to be good and evil. But what if these
other things are out there and they're not necessarily good
or evil. They're just indifferent because they're only what they are,
So they're no longer in the same guidelines that we've
set upon our own selves. So we think these things
are coming around here doing evil things, but yet look
at We'll just use the animals for an example, like,
so there's a pack of wolves out there while the
wolf hunts and eats a deer, Like, does that make
a wolf evil? If these things exist and they come
here and they feed off of us, like our energy
or something, a lot of people say, Oh, they're negative spirits.
They're attaching to you, they're feeding off your energies, they're eating,
They're like parasitic. But that's just their function. Does that
make them evil by nature? Or is that just them
surviving no different than when we go out there and
do what we do to survive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a very fair question. And perspective is definitely everything,
because what I've noticed a common theme between people who
have paranormal and different cryptid encounters is the one thing
I hear a lot of people say more than anything
is that it shattered my belief structure. Well, those of
us that have had experience or seen things or seen
run across the big foot or a dog man or
whatever it is. Once you have that experience, I mean,
your belief structure has completely changed. And the you know,
I've always told my kids, you know, like my oldest
daughter has always been really fascinated with all the paranormal
stuff and sasquatch and dog man stuff, and I've told her,
I said, kiddo, I said, you know, you got to
watch what you wish for. I said, because it's like,
once you're that third eye or whatever it is, it
gets open to that. What I've my experiences is once
you've experienced it, it's hard to not see it. It's
hard to not experience it. I don't know if that
makes sense, but there's just something about that.
Speaker 4: I agree, because most of the time when I talk
to people, if you've ever experienced one thing, you start
to find out that they've experienced more. And I've said
this many times. At this point, I used to never
believe when people said, oh I saw a bigfoot, well
I saw ufo, I saw orbs, my house was haunted, Like,
how's one person having all this activity? They have to
be making this up because there's no way someone can
be experiencing all these different paranormal weird experiences. So they
got to be full of crap.
Speaker 2: And then.
Speaker 4: It's very common. And the more I've dug into, the
more I've thought, and even things that I've experienced myself
is basically I feel hypocritical sometimes because I've seen things
I've had. The when I actually started to think about
some of the things that I've personally went through, I'm like,
maybe there is something to this. Because the more I
talk to people, the more I've discovered that a lot
of these things are common, which has led me to
believe and I think all the stuff is somehow connected
one way or the other. And when you start experiencing
one thing, it opens you up to experience more. So
once your mind is open, I think that's why you
experience more things because it's now able. You recognized it,
so now it's looking back at you like it recognizes you,
if that makes any sort of sense. But like it's
the old thing, like when you stare into the abyss,
sometimes the abys stares back. I think that is very
true when it comes to this type of stuff, Like
if this is the abyss, we looked into it, now
it's looking back, and that's what all this stuff is.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, Uh, you know that's the the whole thing
with the you know, like, hey, I figured out the
pattern for your camouflage and now I can pick you
out ord no matter where you hide. So once you
do that, it's you know, the game's over, at least
to a degree, I mean at least yeah, I understand
what you're saying there completely.
Speaker 4: Once everyone starts to pick up on the weird wavelengths
of what goes on, I I truly believe that's how
we are able to experience more stuff. So when people
want to go out looking for this stuff and they
don't have any sort of experiences, I think it's based
off intent too. So if you're going out there and
you're trying to cause things, you're trying to rile things up,
you're trying to find stuff, most likely you're not going
to because you're purposely trying too hard. Like, the most
I've ever heard from people to me are the ones
that aren't out there doing anything and they just so
happen to see something, something happens to them. They weren't
out there trying to find anything. They weren't in a
haunted house, they weren't out in the woods hunting big Foot.
Like it's the random person driving down the road and
something walks across the road. It's the person that lives
in a house and they like, man, my house is
haunted because literally my cabinet door flies open and a
dish comes flying out at me. Like that's the type
of stuff that seems more believable to me in the
sense that these people are just everyday people, not out
here trying to instigate this stuff to come out, but
they're experience in it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, I've noticed that myself, you know, like
I love going out and going into the woods, and
you know, so and so said they saw this here,
so I'll go check it out if it's within you know,
forty fifty miles of the house, or I'll go camp
there for the night. And you know, typically I don't
experience anything or see anything that I find I feel
like is odd or even even could be considered circumstantial
evidence towards the subject at hand. But it you know,
the when I look back through the experiences that I've
had or when I've seen something, it's every time I'm
absolutely not looking for it, and then I'll suddenly it's
right in my face.
Speaker 4: No, that's to me when I think when you're not
thinking about it is when your mind's more open to it,
which is weird way of saying it, But I think
that's how it kind of works, is your mind's more
open when your mind's shut off. So if we're just
out there doing something, not thinking about things, we're just
focused on what we're doing this and that I think
that makes it to where we experience more stuff because
the more we try and zone into that pattern of
what's out there. I don't think it works that way, right, which, right,
I don't know what I'm talking about. So for anyone listening,
you think that old Brandon has all the answers, I
have no answers. This is just me being myself and
how I rationalize things that I am one never going
to say this is how it is because I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I get what you're saying. I I don't
know anything. I just know what I've experienced. And you know,
some people will hear me talk about it and go, oh, well, wow,
that's that's crazy, or some people might go, you know,
he's full of it, and you know that's okay too.
You know, I'm not trying to convince anybody. I just
know that this is what I experienced, and you know
it's and kind of to your point, that kind of
reminds me of those I like patterned posters they used
to sell back in the nineties, where if you stared
at them long enough you could see like a boat
or whatever.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know what you mean. I think what they're called.
Speaker 2: But it's like that, you know, you focus so hard
on seeing the one thing that you don't see anything
else around you. And that's when I think we miss
a lot.
Speaker 4: I think there are plenty of people out there. I
can almost say majority of the world has had some
sort of interaction with something different. And I'm meaning it
in the sense that could have been in paranormal They
could have seen something and something I don't know what
it is, but they've had some sort of strange instance,
and I think it gets ignored. I think it gets
rolled off. I think it's just like, oh, that was
nothing or something. They see something on the coroner I
they look at it's gone, Oh it's just nothing. That's
just my mind playing tricks on me. But what if
in those instances it's really not and we just write
it off because I think that's human nature is to
write it off because we don't understand it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that we're so focused on the world
that we've created around us, that we've we as humans
have lost something that maybe our ancestors were more in
touch with. And I think that, I honestly believe that
the Native American cultures is a perfect example of that, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think they were very in tune to the world,
and for some reason, and I don't know, maybe this
was by design, when we came over here. By we,
I mean like my ancestors, whatever, we pushed them out
of here, like we claimed these lands, and we did
all these bad things, and we looked at the or
they I keep saying it wasn't me, but I think
they looked down upon them because they didn't consider them
as civilized as all these new people coming over here
from Europe. So they took the lands and everything. But
I think the originalative American for very in tune to
everything around here. We didn't see them as civilized people,
so we pushed them away. But yet I think the
civilization that we are is blinded to a lot of
the real truth of reality. If that makes any sort
of sense in my big long rambling there.
Speaker 2: No, I think it makes good sense. I mean, I
think the Native American cultures we're in tune with their
environment and with nature and with the creatures of their environment,
especially the creatures not just the known ones, but the
ones that you know we talk about like Bigfoot or
dog Man or whatever else that's out there, wind goes
or you know, do they exist? You know, it's they
believed it. And you know, when you've got a culture
that has so many different words to describe the same
thing in there, you know, showing them respect in this
and that, it just makes you wonder. And I've heard
a lot of people try to explain it away, you know,
with this that or whatever else, and you know, try
to say, oh, well, it's a genetic memory of a
you know, a giant ape or whatever that used to exist.
You know, I just don't buy that. It's you know,
I don't see something that's not present and making itself
known to you in some way, shape or form, having
such a powerful presence in your culture.
Speaker 4: I think. I know a lot of people are in
frank camps when it comes to cryptids, like especially Bigfoot,
Like a lot of people think that it is very
much some sort of a primate type of creature. And
for the longest time I was on that band too,
but nowadays, I don't know. I get like, at least
footprints and they've found this trace evidence, but it's still
never been proven one way or the other. Yes, you
have the Patterson Gimblin film, which to me, I think
is if there is a real Bigfoot. I think that
is probably an actual bigfoot in that because I don't
think it's ever been replicated and to the extent that
it was back then. But I struggle with believing for
the fact that there's never been any actual evidence found,
as in a skeleton or any sort of thing like that,
to prove that these things exist. Because if there is
a population of them out there, they have to have
a breeding population. Therefore there must be more of them around.
So where are the bodies at? I feel the same
way with any.
Speaker 2: Cryptid, like, yeah, that's a that's a that's a very
fair question. Is long as we're still thinking about them
as flesh and blood animals for sure.
Speaker 4: So that's like you.
Speaker 2: I used to stay in that camp that bigfoot was
like an ape, and as time has gone on, I
guess I'm getting a little bit more woo woo about it.
And you know, the the theories about these things being interdimensional.
It's kind of like making a lot more sense to me.
Speaker 4: You know, that's the pathway that I would guess I
would lean towards. But then when I talked to some
friends that are straight up still on that flesh and
blood camp, they don't see it that way. But I
don't know which, I don't know where to go with it.
I'm just saying is if I'm believing in flesh and blood,
then there has to be some sort of skeletal remains somewhere.
There has to be something proven that these things were
around or still around it them. We don't have that.
So if they claim that, people go to wo side
because they can't be explained, so they just automatically jump
to that because that that solidifies their belief because they
can't prove it exists and they can't prove it doesn't exist.
I was like, here's the problem that I see about it.
You I can say, yeah, you can't prove it doesn't exist.
But I can say that about anything. I can literally
make something up right now, say there is a eight
foot tall walking Ostrich mant out in the woods. Prove
it doesn't exist, you know what I mean? That's that's
a dumb way of saying, yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I think the one thing that I've learned just
being objective and really and I mean really being objective
when it comes to this field is that I think
when you take a long, long look at it, and
I could take I might catch a lot of flak
for this, and that's okay. But to me, and then
to a lot of people, more and more, I feel
like we're starting to understand that more than one thing
could be true simultaneously. So I'm kind of in this
mindset where when it comes to Bigfoot or dog Man that, yeah,
I kind of think they're inter dimensional. But at the
same time, when they're here, you know, I think maybe
there's a maybe, for lack of a better term, you know,
a solidification process where they become flesh and blood while
they're here, and then in order to go back to
wherever it is they're coming from, you know, there's the
process is reversed. You know. Again, I don't know I'm
speculating here, but I mean, to me, that makes sense.
Speaker 4: If these things are truly exist and they have the
ability to come in and out of our planet existence,
it would make sense that they would have to have
the physical attributes of what we have here. So basically
we live in the three D world, so they would
have to manifest themselves into a three D creature. So
if they're from a different plane of existence, like a
different reality, like the fourth dimension, their laws of physics
in the fourth dimension are different than what we have
here in the third dimension. So whatever shapes and stuff
they are there in the fourth fifth, whatever they're from here,
they have to be in our three D world. And
I make video game analogies a lot, so for people
that don't quite understand what I'm saying, imagine the old
Mario game to where it was a side scroller. It's
just two dimensions, and then now you have a different Mario,
there's three dimensions. There's actually something you can see all
the way around, like three hundred and sixty degrees like
most modern video games. That's basically like what we're seeing
right now, the three D world. So imagine being a
two dimension side scroller and then you see this three
D thing coming in there. Well, we wouldn't understand it
because all we know is two D. So when three
D comes in there, we see it as what they're
gonna see as the three D is just because they
can't see anything because they're like a flat So imagine
something whatever the fourth dimension would be. Well, I can't
even imagine where that would because I see everything in
three D. So who's to say these things don't come
in here and they turn into three D like us.
I don't know if anyone's able to understand what I'm
referring to, but that's it makes sense to me.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm an old Nintendo guy. I get it.
Speaker 4: Like the advancement from side scrolling, jumping Mario to what
video games look like today, like as a huge leap, right,
So that's where I'm saying, Like if our world was
the old school Nintendo and these things come from the
PS five, it's a completely different world.
Speaker 1: And yeah, if their world is different than ours, like
they have all this cool three D realm and then
we're in two D land, so we don't understand what
three D world is.
Speaker 4: Maybe that's how they have to come here and adapt
to our three D world.
Speaker 2: It makes sense to me. I mean, I mean, that's
the only way you can come here and survive. And again,
I don't know what I'm talking about anymore than anybody else,
Just like I always try to drive home to. You know,
I don't feel like there's a there are experts in
the field. We're just out here making our best guess
and trying to sort it out. But you know, it's
like I always liking it too. Photos that people post
on social media, bigfoot, you know, they're outlined in red
and go see it right there, And then you know,
I try to be as nice as I can be
and say, you know, hey, you know, like I get it.
I'm never going to tell you that what you're seeing,
what you said you saw isn't there. But what I'm
trying to tell you is that your photo doesn't prove anything,
you know, And that's kind of like what you're talking
about there. It's like you're taking a three dimensional object
and trying to make it show up on a two
dimensional thing, and it's just it's just not translating.
Speaker 4: I have the biggest scripe, and paradolia is a real
thing and for a lot of people. And I'm not
just like you just said, I'm not going to argue
with people that they're not seeing or they claim they're seen.
I just personally don't see it. And I know a
lot of people that don't see it, But just because
you put red circles on a blurry photo does not
make it an actual bigfoot or a dog man or
whatever the hell you're claiming it is. But when you
say that to someone, not even like say it nicely,
like hey, I'm not seeing this, and then they get
defensive over it. And then social media has made it
to where certain groups you can say things like that,
but a majority of them, because we want people to
come forward, we embrace that. But in my stances, if
we continue to embrace every single thing without any sort
of scrutiny or any sort of logic, are we really
doing anything good or we're still just doing more harm
because now we're letting people that are literally just making
up shit out there to put and say, oh look
at this, look at this every five minutes, posting photos
of nothing, and then people going along with it and
feeding that person's I don't want to say delusions, but
sometimes maybe people really do believe what they're seeing and
it has become off of delusions and or just feeding
into it, and then it's spreading. So I feel like
even with my show, and I feel guilty about this sometimes,
like by doing this show, am I doing more damage
than good. But that's just being my moral compass struggles.
Speaker 2: I guess, well, yeah, I mean, that's that's and I
mean it's honestly probably a good thing that you're questioning
yourself like that, because you know, if I'm I mean,
because realistically, when we step back and look at is
the amount of fraudulent posts or bs zero? Well absolutely not,
there's absolutely that going on. Just like I feel like
whatever percentage you want to say it is, you know
about this siding or that experience or whatever you could say,
Let's say, even if it's let's say sixty percent of
them or bs, that still leaves forty percent that's okay,
what is it? Because if you know, it was that
old saying and I can't remember exactly how it goes,
but you know, if if you can't, if nothing that
you apply to trying to figure it out is explainable,
that that only leaves the unexplainable.
Speaker 4: So I know, I think majority of the people that
I talk to, I tend to believe that they believe
what they're telling me. And that's not me saying I
don't believe them, but I try and remain ground it
and skeptical in this because that's just how I have
to operate, and I try and look at everything from
a rational standpoint. So, oh, you told me you've seen
this entity above you. You could be on making that
up and why. I have no idea, But that's just
something that people could, like I'm on a podcast and
make up a story. And then I get people sending
me emails saying that this guest is full of crap,
blah blah blah. Well, how do you know? Were you there?
I don't know if you saw this thing or not,
but I believe that you believe it, you know what
I mean? So so where's the line. And that's I'm
not going to tell people that know, you didn't see
that because I wasn't there. And I hate when people
do that to other people.
Speaker 2: Like.
Speaker 4: I get what the absolutely I get with the photo
aspect to it, because yes, you're presenting quote unquote evidence
and people can't see your supposed evidence. So this is
where I think it comes into play, is I encourage
people to come forward, but by coming forward and producing
what you suggest as evidence, it's not actually proving anything.
And then they're coming off to other people, especially to
people that are already skeptical. You're not going to change
their opinion based off of a blary photo of bushes
with a red circle around it. But if you come
on a show and say, hey, I was out in
the woods I saw the shadow shape moving in the
woods or whatever, I'm going to believe you probably saw
shadow shape moving in the woods. But that doesn't mean
what you think the shadow is is actually what it was.
The shadow could have been anything, but now you've turned
it into a story of it was a ten foot
tall dog man with red glowing eyes, but you just
said you saw a shadow, and then the story start
progressing more and more and more. Like that's when I
start to start and question things when people's original story
start expanding and they get bigger and bigger and bigger.
And I was like, okay, but.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's the old uh, that's the old fishing story,
you know type of thing. You know, you caught a
six intrumento and all of a sudden, sudden, it's a
five pound bath type of thing. You know, I get it.
It's and I understand that, you know, like, not everybody's
gonna necessarily believe what I'm telling you. I saw and
experienced you know. But for me, the affirmation came with
my sister's girlfriend, without any kind of provocation or prior
knowledge to me, seeing this sleeping in my room like
a month or two later or whatever it was, and
her telling my sister, man, I saw this in your
brother's room last night, you know, and describing exactly what
I saw, and my sister, you know, telling me this
agoing and I even asked her, did you tell Amanda
or you know, did you tell her what I saw?
And she's no, you know, so you know that that
to me was my validation. And it's okay if people
don't believe me. You know, sometimes things just don't sound
quite right to some people, and you know, that's okay.
But like you said, I'm not going to ever tell
anybody you didn't see what you saw because like again,
I wasn't there, you know. But then again, you know,
in the the reality we live in and the world
we live in, you know, I've heard stories about one
person saying, hey, man, we were standing there right next
to each other and I saw this and they didn't.
So you know, I think.
Speaker 4: I think for me and I want people to come
forward talk about the things they experience us. Why do
this show? I want to give people a place that
they can feel safe, come on here and talk about
everything that they've ever experienced. It's weird that you can't
normally go to and be like, hey man, that I
experienced this last night, or this happened to me before.
I want to give people that opportunity in a place
to where they feel comfortable to do this at because
I know what it's like not being able to do that.
So my intense is to give that to people. Like
to try and help people, because I know sometimes you
talking about things actually makes people feel better. And then
people out there listening, they might not want to talk
about it, but they listen they can then relate like
I can relate to that. Now I kind of feel
better about it. So I encourage people to always come forward.
The best advice I could give to people, though, is
don't get hung up on the fact if people don't
believe you, because that seems to be the struggle with
people not wanting to come forward is because they they
don't want people to harass and they don't want people
say in their liar. Don't worry about what anyone else thinks.
I know that's weird to say, like, because everyone has
to worry about what other people think, but it doesn't
really matter because at the end of the day, you
know what you experienced. Those people weren't there. So anyone's
saying that this didn't happen, that's their opinion, and it
doesn't Their opinion shouldn't matter because you know what you experience.
And I think that's why I get so hung up
on things, and I don't want to try in something
like a white Night for people. But why do people
want to tell someone they didn't experience what they say
they experienced, because again, were just hovering around like they
weren't there. They don't know. So don't worry about if
some random person on the computer that you're never going
to know doesn't believe you, because that person doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Right, And you know, on that same topic of conversation,
I got to tell you thank you because honestly, when
you reached out to me initially, and I don't remember
exactly what it was, I think it was late last year,
but I had been on sabbatical from the paranormal and
cryptid feel just because I had gotten so fed up
with the drama and the infighting that comes with some
of these groups. And there's a lot of really great
people and doing a lot of really great research out there.
And you know, I tried to tell some of these
people who are I was friends with that you know,
you don't have to address everything that comes your way,
and I, you know, it just it turned me away
from the field. And it really wasn't until you reached
out to me and I started thinking about again, and
I started listening more, and I'm listening to your show,
and I start listening to catch it up on a
couple other shows that I used to listen to because
I hadn't participated in the community for at least two
years and maybe longer. And it's just I had just
got so fed up with the such harsh scrutiny that
people were giving to each other. And it's like, you know,
let's stop with the fighting. And you know, I thought
this was about advancing the field through research and through experience,
you know, And so again, thank you, because you know
you reach it out. It's kind of pulled me back
into it. And I'm glad I have gotten back into
it to the degree I have, because I mean, I
do love the community and the subject matters. So I
appreciate you.
Speaker 4: I'm just a guy with a microphone trying to give
people a place to talk. But I'm glad we're able
to get in touch. But yeah, I was going to ask,
is there anything else you want to talk about?
Speaker 2: Well, I had an experience. This was about seven years
ago in New Haven, Indiana, and so I'll tell you
the story that I'll get into it after the particulars afterwards.
So at the time, I was staying in New Haven
and there was a pool out in the back, and
a lot of times I would go out really late
when everybody was sleeping, you know, twelve one, two o'clock
in the morning, and I'd go float in the pool
and turn on a podcast or something and listen to it.
You know, I've always kind of thought that was relaxing
and fun. During this particular few evenings, I had noticed
that won't hear any frogs, no crickets, no nothing. It
was just quiet, which is kind of unusual in the summertime,
you know, in mid late June, and it just seems
you know, knowing what I know, I was like, that's weird.
But I didn't think nothing. I was I'm out there
I'm trying to relax. Well, where I was staying is
there's a sizeable ditch that was once part of the
old Wabash Aery Canal system, and that actually goes all
the way down and hits the uh Mammie River about
three quarters of a mile from where we were at.
And uh so I'm out there one night and the
backyard has got a privacy fence around it, but however,
portions of the fence have came down in a storm,
and we're laying flat and through the quiet. The first night,
I heard a couple tree branches break, and you know,
knowing what I've heard what I've heard, I got curious.
So I got a pooled tried off and I was
hearing a little bit of movement. I couldn't tell where
it was coming from. But as soon as I cleared
the fence to where I was exposed and could be seen,
it just went hush. I was like, oh, that's weird.
And I stood there for you know, five or ten
minutes whatever it was, didn't see any movement, didn't see anything.
I says, okay, whatever, maybe it was just whatever. Go
back in the house. Next night, I come back out
and do the same thing, and I had another tree
snap and it was a loud one. So I go
back out to where the end of the fences and
step past where the fence should have been, and there's
a cluster of trees over one of the neighbor's yards
that's maybe twenty foot in diameters filled with weeds, you know,
And I get maybe thirty feet from it, and I
hear this growl and I felt it. It was loud,
very basy. I don't know what it was. I didn't
actually see anything. I just it frightened me and I
just stopped. Didn't have a flashlight or anything they could
reach over there for me to see anyway, as I
had was my phone with me, and of course I
didn't think to pull it out and hit record or anything.
But like I froze, like it was like kind of
instant fear, Like it was kind of I interpreted it
as like you need to stop, don't come any closer.
And I've kind of went over this, however, many times
since it's happened, and again not knowing, not seeing anything,
you know, maybe it's was my imagination. I don't know.
All I can say to you is that I know
I heard the growl. I know I felt the growl,
and my gut makes me feel like it was maybe
a dog man, But I don't know that. And the
reason I say that is because through all the stories
and the research and the listening that I've done, you know,
you always hear about them next to waterways or close
to cemeteries. Well, this ditch goes right past the cemetery,
not three hundred yards from us, and then connects to
the Maumee River, which is, you know, pretty major river
up this way. So yeah, I don't know. I mean,
all I know is that's that's what happened. And it
was kind of freaky. I almost, you know, part of
me wishes I had seen something so I knew what
it was. I just know that I wasn't getting any
closer to that clump of that twenty foot diameter clump
of trees that just it was instant froze. And after
sitting there for a few minutes, I just backed away
until I got back inside to where the fence would be,
and then once I was about fifty yards away, I
just turned them what went back to the house.
Speaker 4: It's hard to know exactly what something is, especially with
just a growl. But I feel like for what I've
talked with other people about, again it's me just spitballing.
But when it comes to a lot of the cases
with dog Man, you're overran with a sense of fear.
I don't know if that's them projecting that on you.
A lot of people say they feed on that type
of stuff, which again I don't know how anyone really
knows that, but but all the stuff I've ever heard
about dog Man are usually they're evil. They usually around waterways,
around cemeteries, again, like you'd mentioned, and a lot of
the time they feed on human fear, which might be true,
might not be true. Who knows. But when you're hearing something.
We live in Indiana, so a lot of people are like, oh,
it could have been a dog, could have been anything.
But I feel like for most people, you can kind
of get a sense of size of something, especially from
the growl. Now, when you heard a growling, did it
was it more of a like a low rumbly growl
or how what was it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? It was. It was very guttural, like it wasn't
just audible. I felt it mm hmm. I could feel
it rattle my chest a little bit, which is what
gave me pause and made me scared because I was like,
that's I mean, I'd literally been chased by the neighbor
over there's pitbull or mastiff, you know, a couple of
times when they've gotten out, and that's a nice sized
dog and I've heard him bark and growl, and it
was nothing like that. So and especially at like one
o'clock in the morning. So but again I go back
to there were no insects, There were no there was nothing.
It was just quiet. And you know, you just don't
get quiet like that in June in Indiana.
Speaker 4: Yeah, usually there are some sort of noises, especially out
at night time. Here. I can hear frogs, I can
hear crickets, I can hear all sorts of things. And
I don't think have everyone outside had not heard something.
So the complete silence, I think is one of the
creepier aspects of stuff, is when everything just goes dead silent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it wasn't. I think that was the last
summer I lived over there, because I was staying with
family at the time before I bought this home I
live in now. And I've actually asked them since then.
I said, how often do you go outside, you don't
hear anything, and hardly ever, but there's usually about two
weeks during every summer since then where they're like, it's
always quiet for a couple of weeks. They don't like,
you know, they don't know why, but you know, and
like my sister, she don't believe in that stuff. She's like,
she'll listen to me and she goes, oh, that's interesting,
and but you know, you know, even she was like, yeah,
she goes, oh, it's kind of weird. She goes. Sometimes
you know, for a week or two, you just don't
hear anything out here. And I honestly so I don't
know if it's like a something that's coming through it
a particular time of year or what you know. And
again I didn't see it. So maybe hearing and feeling
that I'm just putting two and the puzzle pieces together
based on the things that I've heard, and you know,
maybe it's me wanting that to be a dog man.
I don't know. I just know that's what I experienced,
and it was very it was kind of unnerving, you know.
But again, you know, on top of that, I'm also
objective enough and willing to listen, if somebody gives me
an alternative that makes sense, and I, you know, I
might go, yeah, well that makes more sense than what
I thought it was, you know. So, but it was
just it was pretty bizarre, not anything I ever expected there,
and you know, and little old New Haven.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I, like I said, it's hard to ever know
unless someone actually sees it particalarly walk out.
Speaker 1: In front of them or.
Speaker 4: Something like that. It's but the feeling of the rumbley
growl and everything that's very telling in the sense that
that's usually common with like Bigfoot and dog Man type encounters.
So it could have been either one who knows.
Speaker 2: It could be I'm open to that possibility. Yeah, that's
you know, it's just again with like anything I ever experienced,
I just, you know, like we talked about before, like
I wasn't looking for it. I went out to float
in the pool and listen to a podcast and try
to relax, and you know, something presented itself to me
and I don't know what it was exactly.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm. I think that's the mystery of life is
sometimes we'll know and sometimes we never will know. I've
been searching for answers for eighteen years, and I have
a feeling I'll never know, and that's what drives me crazy.
But that's why I do what I do too, always
searching for answers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, I'm the same way. I don't
know if I mentioned it before. I get into this
stuff to satisfy my own curiosity. I could care less
about presenting it to the world and becoming famous, Like,
you know, I want to experience these things because it's
I want to know, you know. And again, like I said,
my sister doesn't believe in any of this stuff. And
then she asked me a question that I thought was
a great question that nobody had ever asked me before.
She says, she says, you go out in the woods
and you look for these things, and she says, what
are you going to do if you actually see it?
And I never thought about that before. And my honest
answer to her was, I said, well, one of two
things are going to happen. I said, Either I'm going
to put the subject down and I'm never going to
touch it again, or I'm going to go deeper down
a rabbit hole. I don't see any two options besides that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's one of those things like once you start
going down, it's hard to get out of it. Well,
we've been going on for about an hour, little over
an hour and ten minutes now, So is there's anything
else you'd like to talk about? We can or we
can go ahead and start wrapping this one up.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm good. I think we've covered a lot.
Speaker 4: Well again, Chris, it's been a pleasure having you on here.
I always enjoy talking to fellow Hoosiers, so that's when
only want to say thank you.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks for having me. I love sitting down and
talking about all things creepy, so it's definitely a passion
of mine.
Speaker 4: Well, if you have any more experiences up, you know
how to get ahold of me?
Speaker 2: I sure do, you'd be the first to know.
Speaker 4: Awesome. Thank you, all right, thank you. If you'd like
to be a guest on Tenfoil Tells, remember to send
an email to Tenfoil Telles Podcast at gmail dot com
or go to Tinfoil Tales dot com and go to
the contact section. Make sure to follow me around on
all the social media's and just remember truth comes at
a cost. Are you willing to pay the price.
Speaker 3: I've heard a story be laid last night about something
alert along a woodline, You foot prints, strange lights in
the sky. They claim it's nothing, but I know they
light it seasier last to lap in my face. But
something about this makes me say.
Speaker 2: What if it's real?
Speaker 4: What if they knew?
Speaker 3: What if the answers are coming from you, spending stores,
wasting my time? Hearing boy it says, is it all
in their minds? They can call me crazy, but I
just want some froom.
Speaker 2: What if it's true? What if it's really?
Speaker 3: What if it's true? What it for?
Speaker 4: Worlds not what we knew?
Speaker 2: Tim for tales blend me a.
Speaker 3: Story that starts where the line is gets.
Speaker 4: What if it's really?
Speaker 3: What if it's true? The answers are.
Speaker 1: Waiting, They're waiting for you.
Speaker 3: They see if the dog man walking, or maybe am
offman flies. I love the fairy giants hidden beneath the flies.
Speaker 2: They say it's just stories.
Speaker 3: It's all they believe, the fairy tale sport of things
we can't perceive.
Speaker 4: They won't keep us blindly, they.
Speaker 2: Won't break our wheel. But I'm not buying it.
Speaker 3: I'm not slowing another pill for sped poison. The lies
were made to what if.
Speaker 2: The truth had set us free.
Speaker 3: The aliens suse traveling through time, secret space programs, racing
their minds. They call them crazy, but I just need
some fruit.
Speaker 4: What if it's true? What if it's real?
Speaker 1: What if it's true? What if the worlds not what
we do?
Speaker 2: Tim Oil tells fully me in.
Speaker 3: A story that starts where the logic iss.
Speaker 2: What if it's real?
Speaker 4: What if it's true?
Speaker 3: The answers are waiting, They're weighing for you.
Speaker 2: They lie, We all can die. The signs are there
if you open your eyes.
Speaker 3: Aliens cricked its demon's ghost, the devil them too.
Speaker 2: What if it's mean?
Speaker 4: Or what if it's true? What if it's real?
Speaker 3: What if it's true?
Speaker 2: What if the world's not what we to do?
Speaker 4: Tenfoil tells fully me a story.
Speaker 1: That starts wear the logic. What if it's read?
Speaker 2: What if it's true?
Speaker 4: The answers are waiting, They're waiting for you.
Speaker 2: It's all in our heads, it's always our binders. These
voices can be silence. The truth must rise. Temple tell
it's pulling me true?
Speaker 4: What if it's reading? What if it's true,