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<v Speaker 1>You see something's going to happen. What what's going to happen?

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<v Speaker 2>What you.

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<v Speaker 1>Help? Welcome to the Occult Rejects Sorrow a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>late here, that was my fault. I was talking to

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<v Speaker 1>Jim before the show, but we finally got it going.

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<v Speaker 1>And today you just got me Cardinal Electric Head, and

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<v Speaker 1>we got Frida Jin with us, and we will be

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<v Speaker 1>talking about this Apernal triad and the Kabbala Jin. In

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<v Speaker 1>case people don't know who you are yet, which I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sure they do know, Please let everybody know what is

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<v Speaker 1>up with Jena Ninja.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you, Electric card and I'll appreciate that. In

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<v Speaker 2>stry So, I am Jenna NINJAA Ho's a show called

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<v Speaker 2>Threshold Saints. It's a show about metamagic speculative ontologies. And

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<v Speaker 2>also we'll say vice president or co president of the

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<v Speaker 2>Gray Lodge, which now has a YouTube channel, and we

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<v Speaker 2>are in the midst of doing some really interesting speculative

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<v Speaker 2>archaeology series. So that will be Friday Live. We're doing

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<v Speaker 2>a roundtable on speculative archaeologies of the New World, So America.

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<v Speaker 2>So everybody brings their weirdest, craziest conspiracy theory and they.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell us what it is abut America, and that is

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<v Speaker 1>in your spaces.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, everybody can follow me or any of the other

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<v Speaker 2>co hosts at Wouknrie Born you'll see I post the

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<v Speaker 2>posters all the time or at Threshold Saints, which is

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<v Speaker 2>the show count and that's also the account on ig

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<v Speaker 2>and I also post the spaces and the posters to that.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I'll have an episode with Simon from Bramastra,

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<v Speaker 2>who've nick he's a great dude, and so i have

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<v Speaker 2>an episode with him coming out, and also an episode

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<v Speaker 2>with Ashley from Union of announ same changer of So

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<v Speaker 2>look forward to that, and I've got so much coming up.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a little behind this week, but yeah, it's rock

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<v Speaker 2>and rolling, and I appreciate you invited me to be here.

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<v Speaker 2>I love talking about Kabalah. It's been something that Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's definitely like been a part of my Twitter presence

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<v Speaker 2>personality and also a big part of my show. And

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<v Speaker 2>I've always said like a big part of that is

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<v Speaker 2>from you and how you were an early sort of

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<v Speaker 2>just interralocutor of Kabala in the occult podcasting sphere, like

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<v Speaker 2>nobody really discussed it the way you did, and so

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<v Speaker 2>when you did, I was like, yes, this is like

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<v Speaker 2>someone who has like understanding, this is someone who has

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<v Speaker 2>like gone up the tree. And from those experiences, I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, I actually have gone up. I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>really realize it, Nick, I'm just being honest. At first

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<v Speaker 2>I knew I had, but it's it didn't it didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have boundaries. Maybe it didn't like it wasn't cohesive like

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<v Speaker 2>the memory.

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<v Speaker 1>Gotcha, yes, y yeah yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Then studying the tree and studying like the Jewish cabalaisy

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<v Speaker 2>gave me a lot better grasp of what I experienced,

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<v Speaker 2>what I saw, and how to sort of understand it.

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<v Speaker 2>And then but I just want to say I've always

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<v Speaker 2>said this is that listening to you on some of

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<v Speaker 2>your old series Scarlet Woman number one obviously that really

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<v Speaker 2>helped me. So it's really interesting to do this full circle.

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<v Speaker 2>And thank you so much for writing me.

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<v Speaker 1>No so no, thank you. That's that's great that you

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<v Speaker 1>even settle that. I really appreciate that. And the Scarlet

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<v Speaker 1>Woman is another series that h I mean technically I

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<v Speaker 1>already did the kabbala a while back ago with Looks,

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<v Speaker 1>and I wanted to redo it with you. Even the

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<v Speaker 1>Scarlet Horse series is something that I've thought about redoing.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, maybe we could all be a part

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<v Speaker 1>of that again in the future at some point, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>because I even could say just from my own experiences

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<v Speaker 1>and learning, I mean that was three years ago when

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<v Speaker 1>I probably did the Scarlet Horror or the other thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I've learned and grown even from there, so

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<v Speaker 1>be a totally different look at it again.

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<v Speaker 2>So what you said, I think is super important just

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<v Speaker 2>to like lay the foundation of what I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about at least, but probably also what you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to talk about is that your perspective does change, and

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<v Speaker 2>my perspective has also changed. So I've done the Cabala

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<v Speaker 2>and Tntra series with you that's six and a half hours,

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<v Speaker 2>like straight up like serious Cabala Tontra discussion. I did

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<v Speaker 2>the eleven part series with Lee that was obviously how

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<v Speaker 2>I started podcasting, and so that was also having sufferatic

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<v Speaker 2>kind of experiences as I recorded, as you've discussed when

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<v Speaker 2>doing Scarlet Horror. So I've had that where you've recorded,

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<v Speaker 2>but I wasn't totally aware, let's say, like I was

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<v Speaker 2>kind of like, yeah, they were magical experiences and I

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<v Speaker 2>was having them but I wasn't totally aware that I

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<v Speaker 2>was having them. It was more I would listen back

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<v Speaker 2>in recording it and be like, oh, I actually understand

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent when I was talking about I can

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<v Speaker 2>see it in my mind's eye, So I get it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's your perspective changes, and the tree should change. It

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<v Speaker 2>should be very dynamic. It should not. I think this

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<v Speaker 2>is just me, Jen, but I think it should be dynamic,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think it shouldn't be so fixed. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think when you were talking about Supernel, Triad, Saturn and Benna,

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<v Speaker 2>that is fixed. But maybe the Ketter and Hookema are

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<v Speaker 2>not necessarily malleable, but they're more unfixed. They're more maybe clockwork.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe they can, you know, change position. So I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's an interesting idea. At least keep in mind that

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<v Speaker 2>it can be flexible and different people have different ways

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<v Speaker 2>to describe it. That's super important too.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean even just when you did the Contra series,

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<v Speaker 1>just like the art that you even showed something completely

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<v Speaker 1>different than I would most people would even be used

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<v Speaker 1>to in occultism my opinion, you know, So even it

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<v Speaker 1>was just it's interesting to see how it was, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>how it's looked at or presented in other ways.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's the whole thing, is that I think even

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<v Speaker 2>with ma like we did the show with Mario the

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<v Speaker 2>other day, and it like dawned on me that all

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<v Speaker 2>of us sort of recognize, at least in our own

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<v Speaker 2>kind of languages, that maybe there is a kind of well,

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<v Speaker 2>there's different ways to describe it. Maybe you say primordial,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe you say perennial. I saw Solar in the chat,

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<v Speaker 2>so I'll shout him out. We had a discussion about

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<v Speaker 2>traditionalism versus primordialism in his episode on Evla, So it's

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<v Speaker 2>really interesting actually, But yeah, I think that that was

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<v Speaker 2>what I came to that understanding when we were on

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<v Speaker 2>the roundtable, is that, yeah, we kind of all recognize

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<v Speaker 2>that maybe there is a I'm going to use a

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<v Speaker 2>very tulemic term, aonic shift, and yeah, and so I

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<v Speaker 2>think that we kind of have to also acknowledge that

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<v Speaker 2>maybe Kabala exists in that kind of shifting landscape of

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<v Speaker 2>how we perceive the world, rather than saying it's fixed.

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<v Speaker 2>Like I know a lot of people, especially when I

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<v Speaker 2>first started doing the spaces and discussing it, like you

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<v Speaker 2>were kind of like a Maverick and just doing it

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<v Speaker 2>on your show, whereas I had to kind of I

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<v Speaker 2>kind of did in my own way translate that into Twitter,

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<v Speaker 2>so I would talk about it and people were like

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<v Speaker 2>very resistant because it was like, oh, you're associated with

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<v Speaker 2>the Jays and this. And then I quickly made friends

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<v Speaker 2>with Saschke. It brought him up many times on the show.

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<v Speaker 2>He's obviously been on my show a few times, and

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<v Speaker 2>he introduced me to this idea of using sailor Moon

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<v Speaker 2>to discuss Kabala. And honestly, it was as important for

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<v Speaker 2>me to have that connection and shout out Saschke as

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<v Speaker 2>it was for me to listen to you to become like,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I'm like a mediocre podcast or

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<v Speaker 2>whatever now, but it has helped me so much, like

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<v Speaker 2>that idea that I could translate kabbala or tantra because

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<v Speaker 2>maybe those are the same thing. I've said this before,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe you can translate that into pop culture, but also

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<v Speaker 2>maybe pop culture is also relaying those kinds of suffaratic ideas.

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<v Speaker 2>So that made it a lot more easier for me

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<v Speaker 2>to start speaking about it more openly instead of being like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>this is like the fore an audience and magicians like

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<v Speaker 2>they people weren't you know, people aren't normy. So they

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<v Speaker 2>and I don't mean that in a pejorative, they just

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't instantly recognize that when I would drop cabalistic language

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<v Speaker 2>or oh yeah, so I started incorporating these kinds of

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<v Speaker 2>more people love to do discuss it in context to

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<v Speaker 2>anime especially, or people seem to give me the most

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<v Speaker 2>feedback when I do that, and so I just yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that has helped me a lot. And so people think

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<v Speaker 2>that you have to be some great magician too and

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<v Speaker 2>study cabal for fifty years. And maybe that's true. And

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<v Speaker 2>I agree that the stages were very extremely like they

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<v Speaker 2>were magicians. They were like writing the drive to s

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<v Speaker 2>neck likes to say, they were going all the way

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<v Speaker 2>and you can hear it, you can read like you

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<v Speaker 2>can read. I'm a big fan of Rabbi Cordovero Ramuk

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<v Speaker 2>and his book The Orchard of Pomegrants. Yeah, Orchard of Pomegrants.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe I might be mixing up with.

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<v Speaker 1>The Oh yeah, hey, I was going to say, wait,

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<v Speaker 1>was that Israeli who reads?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there, one is the garden of pomegrands. One is

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<v Speaker 2>the orchard. So I always forget and my Hebrew is

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<v Speaker 2>very bad, as everybody knows who's come to the spaces,

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm not going to pretend. But it was a

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<v Speaker 2>really foundational, really important book. I bought them off eBay,

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<v Speaker 2>costs like nine hundred bucks. Oh yeah, thirteen thirteen volumes

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<v Speaker 2>in English, and so I as I was doing a

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<v Speaker 2>TNTRA series, I read through them and then in preparation

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<v Speaker 2>to come on and do it with you, so I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, yeah, this is really interesting, and so how

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<v Speaker 2>can we bring this like medieval knowledge and update it?

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<v Speaker 2>Sort of? I know, I rambled for a really long time.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, but I wanted to bring it into twenty

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<v Speaker 2>twenty five and like uh and like let people know

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<v Speaker 2>that it's out there, Like it's not just in those books,

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<v Speaker 2>Like you don't have to buy books from eBay or

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<v Speaker 2>a Books or whatever like an it's aquarium book dealer.

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<v Speaker 2>It's actually there and it's actually somewhat preserved and somewhat understandable.

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<v Speaker 2>So I always found that really interesting. Just that it's

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<v Speaker 2>sort of been my Kabala evolution is how I would say.

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<v Speaker 2>It's like started from a very traditionalist kind of perspective. Like, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>we have to not talk about this thing in Buddhism

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<v Speaker 2>or this thing in contra, but we're going to try

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<v Speaker 2>and present it in like a very traditional, very middle

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<v Speaker 2>pillar way. And I still try and do that, but

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<v Speaker 2>I realized in twenty twenty five again it is you

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<v Speaker 2>have to kind of update for your audience.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So yeah, I even think with Kabala, it's like

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<v Speaker 1>even Haughts, it's like, where do I even start to

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<v Speaker 1>try to explain this to people who don't understand that anything,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, then where it's like, uh, there's even been

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<v Speaker 1>times in the past where I didn't want touch it

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<v Speaker 1>because I was like too worried about like, oh, all

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<v Speaker 1>the people are going to like think I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>what the fuck I'm talking about. And then it's like

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not to sound like an asshole, but it it's like,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, all right, I'm kind of like half in

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<v Speaker 1>the conspiracy world and half in the occult world, and

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<v Speaker 1>like nothing nothing the conspiracy world, they know jackshit about

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<v Speaker 1>fucking Cabala, So why should be intimidated? And then I

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<v Speaker 1>half to people that are in the occult fucking community,

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<v Speaker 1>no jack shit about Kabali anyways, So why the funck.

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<v Speaker 1>Should I be intimidated? You know? If anything, I just

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<v Speaker 1>gotta be worried about. My lesson is understanding what the

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<v Speaker 1>fuck I'm even saying.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, this was even the genesis of the Gray

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<v Speaker 2>launch was I needed to be able to speak about

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<v Speaker 2>it in the way that you spoke about it. I

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<v Speaker 2>needed to be free and open in my expression of it,

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<v Speaker 2>especially when I was really deep in and so there

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<v Speaker 2>was a group of people interested in this kinds of

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<v Speaker 2>crazy ideas that I would spend sometimes or weave, as

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<v Speaker 2>Joshua the Brash likes to say, you know, and so

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<v Speaker 2>that's basically what it was. I was like, I have

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<v Speaker 2>to actually like solar is high level and but maybe

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<v Speaker 2>not wasn't quite where I was at that moment. But

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<v Speaker 2>the rest of them, it's not that they were bad,

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<v Speaker 2>but I had to kind of bring them up. It's understanding.

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<v Speaker 2>That's how I felt, and so that was how I started.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like, I need to be able to relay

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<v Speaker 2>it in a way that makes sense. So that's what

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<v Speaker 2>I that's what I try to do, so I totally

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<v Speaker 2>relate to what you're saying. Is like so many people

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<v Speaker 2>in the occult world, they will say they do not

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<v Speaker 2>know Kabala. I know you had a guest on, a

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<v Speaker 2>very important guest who said that he didn't. Whether I

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<v Speaker 2>believe that or not, it's irrelevant, but I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 2>that that's one hundred percent true. And because for me,

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<v Speaker 2>Kabala is like as a foundational map to explain sort

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<v Speaker 2>of all metaphysics.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll even put it this way onto Sorry dh, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>just real quick to interrupt you. Sorry, I'll even put

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<v Speaker 1>it this way. If you have you go to a

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<v Speaker 1>lodge or a place that has a checkerboard floor, it's

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<v Speaker 1>attached to Kabala. So that's my opinion.

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<v Speaker 2>I agree. I think it's as simple.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I just wanted to add that.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you can map all systems to the treaty,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think you can also look at the treat

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<v Speaker 2>in order to reach different conclusions. Like people like are

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<v Speaker 2>very familiar with Hegel and Hegelian dialectic like that, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>that is Kabbala, that's Kabala. He's a very good Kabbalist.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't mean I agree with him. I don't agree

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<v Speaker 2>with every you know, Sage Master, a modern American magician.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't agree with all of the many of them.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's okay. I can still use some of the

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<v Speaker 2>things they say and sort of you know, helps refine

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<v Speaker 2>my perspective, is what I would say. So a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of these things that like conspiracy people do talk about

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<v Speaker 2>are kabbalistic. They may not know a lot of them

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<v Speaker 2>probably don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, yes, I would agree with that. And you

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<v Speaker 1>know what's another thing too, I think I mentioned earlier,

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<v Speaker 1>I just just throw this out there, and it's probably

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<v Speaker 1>like preaching to the choir or like nobody really that

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<v Speaker 1>listens to our show is probably need to hear this.

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<v Speaker 1>But like you know, you can also get a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of people who discredit this shit because they just hate

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<v Speaker 1>fucking Jewish people. And it's like, well, if you want

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<v Speaker 1>to understand what just supposed a bad guys doing to you,

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<v Speaker 1>don't you want to understand? It's just I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>like they'll just credit it saying, oh, let's say satanic

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<v Speaker 1>Jewish shit, And I was like, oh, okay, that's all

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<v Speaker 1>it is. This is sid is that old Dixon demons?

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is something nick that I've personally encountered many times,

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<v Speaker 2>especially with my own show and also Twitter, not to

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<v Speaker 2>reference and be like a very online person. But I

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<v Speaker 2>just think it's important, like what you just said, just

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<v Speaker 2>because something has an origin, those people actually are very

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<v Speaker 2>good cabalist. You want to talk about people who are

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<v Speaker 2>very excellent calls, Jewish people are actually quite good cabals,

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<v Speaker 2>And so it's okay to learn from people who actually

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<v Speaker 2>understand uh maybe deeper things. Doesn't mean you have to

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<v Speaker 2>agree with them politically or you know, uh, it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>mean anything. That's what I'm saying. So I personally think

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<v Speaker 2>that they are good akbal, So I'm going to read

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<v Speaker 2>their texts. But I agree with you that often the

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<v Speaker 2>knowledge of kabala does get maybe intentionally hidden under this

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<v Speaker 2>kind of label of aspersion or which is a cabalistic

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<v Speaker 2>act to accuse like something of being satanic, of that

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<v Speaker 2>which you also are m it's actually the klipu of Geverra.

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<v Speaker 2>I know we're not talking about Gevra today, but yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you know it is a it is an interesting like

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<v Speaker 2>cabalistic note is that. Yeah, absolutely too. So don't discard things.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think it's it's useful. I think you have to.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what wisdom science is, right, like explore it, test

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<v Speaker 2>it for yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I totally, but uh, I mean, I guess

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<v Speaker 1>we'll get into it. If that's okay with you.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll yes, absolutely, I'm sorry, we don't. That's all I

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<v Speaker 2>do a long intro.

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<v Speaker 1>That's totally funny. Do We're good. We're good. Like I said,

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<v Speaker 1>if the stakes too long, we'll just do a part

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<v Speaker 1>two or just you know, leave whatever and which covered

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<v Speaker 1>in the next one. Because that is that is the

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<v Speaker 1>point of hopefully of this is that we will actually

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<v Speaker 1>do the whole tree. It's just that I was telling Jen.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, I really don't think we could do

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<v Speaker 1>the whole tree in one episode and do it justice.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm able to do the supernal triad first.

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<v Speaker 2>So I think this makes a lot of sense. I

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<v Speaker 2>think that because of like as I explain how I've

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<v Speaker 2>come through like different understandings, maybe not even greater, but

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<v Speaker 2>I think this is the This is something that Nick

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<v Speaker 2>and I used to kind of bicker, not bicker, but

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<v Speaker 2>in a funny way that Nick would always talk about

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<v Speaker 2>descending the tree and I would always talk about us

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<v Speaker 2>sending the tree. And so but now I'm actually ready

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<v Speaker 2>because it took me a long time to sort of

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<v Speaker 2>accept the descending directionality but now I'm actually okay with it.

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<v Speaker 2>I've sort of like reconciled that paradox. So I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's perfect timing for us to do this pernal triad.

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<v Speaker 1>Good for you? Uh yes, so I guess, Cather, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know. I guess. So if you want to start

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<v Speaker 1>off with that, maybe how you look at it, and

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<v Speaker 1>then I'll go whatever. I know you also have videos

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<v Speaker 1>to me, so that's right, how you wanted to thought

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<v Speaker 1>it off. Let's put pressure on.

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<v Speaker 2>It, no Keller, Okay, so let's talk about Ketner. It's love,

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<v Speaker 2>it's white, that's usually how it's considered, but it can

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<v Speaker 2>actually have two other primary colors. Now Deon Fortune talks

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<v Speaker 2>about like the gold flashing and the assia the lower

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<v Speaker 2>world component. That's okay, Yes, I agree with that. I

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<v Speaker 2>do agree with that, but I actually think that there

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<v Speaker 2>is a pink component and that is why that shows

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<v Speaker 2>off in.

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<v Speaker 1>Different Yes, yes, yes, that is interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's my slight difference in interpretation. And it does

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<v Speaker 2>make sense in a ton trick way which I won't

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<v Speaker 2>get into, but it it there is something there. I think.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that that you can make you can make

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<v Speaker 2>an argument for that, and so and people tend to

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<v Speaker 2>also overemphasize the gold elements. I've noticed this a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>like modern magicians, modern cabalists, when they're talking about catter,

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<v Speaker 2>they tend to overemphasize that. But I think it's important

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<v Speaker 2>to say that it's it's beyond materiality. So it's the

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<v Speaker 2>you could say it's the breath of God. Even the

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<v Speaker 2>expression into the world. Well, and you know, it's like

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<v Speaker 2>it's so pristine, it's so infinite, it's so powerful and

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<v Speaker 2>it's potential that it's sort of ineffable in a way.

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<v Speaker 2>And I know that other cabalists like to say, like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I I'm so and so for those are really getting

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<v Speaker 2>more into the ineffable. But I like to say that

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<v Speaker 2>Keather is at least the point of like ineffable sort

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<v Speaker 2>of realization.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, some people say it's like the prim oral point

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<v Speaker 1>of like k creation.

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<v Speaker 2>I agree with that. That makes sense to me in

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<v Speaker 2>a tontric way. The goddess who I placed there in

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<v Speaker 2>our series that I did with you, I said, is Chinamasa.

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<v Speaker 2>So he is the goddess of both creation and destruction

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<v Speaker 2>at the same time, a paradox.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's interesting just to throw this in there,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, again not saying that the guy was onto anything.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll just throws it in there. But you know, even

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<v Speaker 1>Crowley he looked at I think as pain as being

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<v Speaker 1>associated with Kether and Earth or Kether and Melcouth, saying

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<v Speaker 1>that it's like, you know, I mean if you look

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<v Speaker 1>at the tree, I mean, it'll comes from Kether anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you consider that, I guess like God or

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<v Speaker 1>whatever you want to look at it. It's in every

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<v Speaker 1>sphere it regardless. But I do you find kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like what you had just said. I do find it interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>It is almost maybe the same idea.

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<v Speaker 2>So I have to say I agree with Croley in

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<v Speaker 2>this instance, and I also agree with what you said

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<v Speaker 2>is like there is so it depends. So every sufferer

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<v Speaker 2>you could say, has five densities or seven. You've talked

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<v Speaker 2>about this many times, and I've talked about it quite

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<v Speaker 2>a few times as well. But different systems have different preferences.

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<v Speaker 2>So I agree with though that that idea of the

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<v Speaker 2>five density system is just an easier way to sort

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<v Speaker 2>of reconcile the numerical issues that arise with seven, and

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<v Speaker 2>not that seven is an imperfect number, but you get

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<v Speaker 2>it's you're supposed to be clean. It's everything's it's very autistic, right,

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<v Speaker 2>so you want it to all be clean, numbers, clean,

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<v Speaker 2>names of God, whatever. So the fifth density is really

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<v Speaker 2>daf as well. That's how originally in like the older

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<v Speaker 2>older Cabala, they would understand death is in every sphere

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<v Speaker 2>and it's at that fifth density, and it's that sort

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<v Speaker 2>of crystalline blue color. So I agree that it's it's there.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not necessarily its own separate suffer, but for counting purposes,

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<v Speaker 2>it can be really useful to have a to have

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<v Speaker 2>it appear on the tree. And I think that you

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<v Speaker 2>do experience it. I think it's a lot to do

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<v Speaker 2>with our consciousness too, So I think that that's why

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<v Speaker 2>I like to place it in the fifth and I

396
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<v Speaker 2>think that that's a it's just a neater, tidier system.

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<v Speaker 2>But of course some people do teach the seven a

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<v Speaker 2>density method, and that's perfectly okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean even for people who mean, I know,

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<v Speaker 1>like even on the you mentioned it before with the colors,

401
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<v Speaker 1>how's there's the uh oh god, was it a what's

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<v Speaker 1>the first one in the four densities of the spheres

403
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<v Speaker 1>with the colors? I know, it goes a b ya.

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<v Speaker 1>That's how I remembered, sire or is it a? And

405
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<v Speaker 1>then there's bread, then yets and then whenever I always

406
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<v Speaker 1>get those two confused. I mean, even right there, that

407
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<v Speaker 1>shows that there's at least I mean, there's four different

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<v Speaker 1>colors or I guess ideas of each spirit to begin with.

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<v Speaker 1>Just just looking at a cabalistic map, you'll see that

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<v Speaker 1>on some of them. So I mean, just right there,

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<v Speaker 1>it shows that there's different densities or ideas. I've even

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<v Speaker 1>wondered because of that. It's getting a little bit off,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, on the rest of the tree. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>when you start getting into the whole color aspect, is

415
00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:06.680
<v Speaker 1>there like four different like densities or whatever to like

416
00:22:06.759 --> 00:22:09.599
<v Speaker 1>kind of show the whole frequency change into going into

417
00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:13.400
<v Speaker 1>something else, into a different color as That sounds weird,

418
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:15.839
<v Speaker 1>but you know something with that, I think in the

419
00:22:15.880 --> 00:22:19.480
<v Speaker 1>densities it's it's more of like maybe maybe somewhat of

420
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:23.000
<v Speaker 1>like the path going between each sphere. I wonder if

421
00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:24.880
<v Speaker 1>that has something to do with it, like to change

422
00:22:24.920 --> 00:22:26.920
<v Speaker 1>and be from one thing to the next.

423
00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:29.680
<v Speaker 2>So I think this makes a lot of sense. I

424
00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:32.240
<v Speaker 2>think this a lot of makes a lot of sense experientially,

425
00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:34.319
<v Speaker 2>and I also think it makes sense in the more

426
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:37.480
<v Speaker 2>medieval Cabala. I think this is what Ramic would argue,

427
00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:40.759
<v Speaker 2>is that the paths are found in the suffer through

428
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:44.759
<v Speaker 2>the experiences. Yes, so exactly what Nick's saying is like, yeah,

429
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.160
<v Speaker 2>I would agree with that too. Rather than they just

430
00:22:48.279 --> 00:22:51.319
<v Speaker 2>appear they're no, I think it actually has a lot

431
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.799
<v Speaker 2>more to do with our consciousness, how we perceive and

432
00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:56.200
<v Speaker 2>also control what is happening.

433
00:22:57.319 --> 00:22:59.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, sometimes look at the pats. It's almost like the

434
00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:00.359
<v Speaker 1>alchemy between the views.

435
00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:06.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I agree. You can look at the there's

436
00:23:06.519 --> 00:23:10.240
<v Speaker 2>some Jewish texts that show like the letters traveling through

437
00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:12.640
<v Speaker 2>the sephra, like through the density of the four worlds,

438
00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:16.000
<v Speaker 2>like Nick was talking about, And so the paths really

439
00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:21.359
<v Speaker 2>represent like the the aggregates of like you need a

440
00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:25.200
<v Speaker 2>vessel to contain something, and so the word is it

441
00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:26.960
<v Speaker 2>can be a letter, but it can also be light,

442
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:29.359
<v Speaker 2>and it can also be sound, but you need a

443
00:23:29.440 --> 00:23:32.400
<v Speaker 2>vessel to sort of travel through from one sepherra to

444
00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:37.960
<v Speaker 2>the next. So later on they started mapping the letters

445
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.119
<v Speaker 2>directly onto the paths, but that's not really how it

446
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:45.279
<v Speaker 2>was originally understood. It's really about light traveling through the paths,

447
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:48.799
<v Speaker 2>not really focusing on the paths. But that's a more

448
00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:52.039
<v Speaker 2>hermetic exercise, right, It's very hode like to say, oh,

449
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:56.039
<v Speaker 2>I want to understand this thing that I'm seeing, this

450
00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:57.079
<v Speaker 2>thing that I'm creating.

451
00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:06.880
<v Speaker 1>I agree with that. Uh, Keither, there was some things

452
00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:11.119
<v Speaker 1>that I just you know, before you go on, you see,

453
00:24:11.319 --> 00:24:13.279
<v Speaker 1>I was, you know, when you mentioned the crown, I

454
00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:16.119
<v Speaker 1>met the crown. We were talking about gold before, and

455
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:19.640
<v Speaker 1>kether is considered a I think Hebrew for crown, so

456
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:22.799
<v Speaker 1>like even that whole uh, Like, I guess the you're

457
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:24.680
<v Speaker 1>talking about, like the gold flecked in there or whatever

458
00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:26.119
<v Speaker 1>the gold is I think is mixed in with u

459
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:28.640
<v Speaker 1>kether And like one of the things I even wondered,

460
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:30.599
<v Speaker 1>like if that is even kind of why they even

461
00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:32.519
<v Speaker 1>call a crown in a sense because there is gold

462
00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:35.519
<v Speaker 1>flecked in there. I don't know, like how you were

463
00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:38.039
<v Speaker 1>saying that people consider you know, when they go on

464
00:24:38.079 --> 00:24:40.680
<v Speaker 1>about the gold with Keather, I think maybe that might

465
00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:45.400
<v Speaker 1>have something to do with it. Maybe, But even Keather,

466
00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:47.960
<v Speaker 1>I know has also have you ever like came across

467
00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:50.200
<v Speaker 1>where they try to explain it as like a crystallization.

468
00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:57.279
<v Speaker 2>Interesting that you bring this up nick because in contra

469
00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:01.440
<v Speaker 2>we would describe that as adamantine, which can mean diamond thunder,

470
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:05.759
<v Speaker 2>so like a sort of compressive process. I'm not you'll

471
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:08.440
<v Speaker 2>have to forgive me. I'm not Ricardo. So this is

472
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:12.920
<v Speaker 2>like this natural okay, well beyond me, but it's a

473
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:17.680
<v Speaker 2>it's a it's an adomantizing process between lightning and like meteorite,

474
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:23.720
<v Speaker 2>iron or other alchemical metals, specifically with metal, but with

475
00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:27.920
<v Speaker 2>metal and lightning. And it's also about pressure. So sometimes

476
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:30.440
<v Speaker 2>they'll make like a golden furnace. It's very common in

477
00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:33.559
<v Speaker 2>Daoism or like in Tibet, they use like a cremation

478
00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:38.880
<v Speaker 2>furnace or whatever. So yes, I agree that the goddess

479
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:41.200
<v Speaker 2>who goes there, she wears a crown said to be

480
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:46.279
<v Speaker 2>of adamantine. So the idea is the flashing of gold

481
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:51.240
<v Speaker 2>isn't really gold. It's actually like the color of stainlessness.

482
00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:54.400
<v Speaker 2>That's how it's more described in a tontic way. But

483
00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:59.200
<v Speaker 2>it is flashing metallic, but it's not necessarily gold. It's

484
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:02.920
<v Speaker 2>more pristine. It's more like white. But there is something

485
00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:06.440
<v Speaker 2>just like with a with light. If you've ever seen

486
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:09.839
<v Speaker 2>a Chambarro movie, this is a great metaphor for this

487
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:13.079
<v Speaker 2>is when they do the shot where the samurai holds

488
00:26:13.079 --> 00:26:16.480
<v Speaker 2>his sword and the sword kind of flashes in the

489
00:26:16.759 --> 00:26:20.920
<v Speaker 2>moonlight or in the diegetic lighting, like in the camera lighting.

490
00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:24.119
<v Speaker 2>That's the same. That's kind of the idea for me.

491
00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:27.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, what do you think, Nick.

492
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:30.440
<v Speaker 4>You know what?

493
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.920
<v Speaker 1>I started thinking about us Unfortunately got sidetracked and started

494
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:35.720
<v Speaker 1>to think about Mother with the whole crystal thing. I

495
00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:37.039
<v Speaker 1>don't know if you ever saw that movie, how they

496
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:40.680
<v Speaker 1>actually have the crystal in there and the sorry think

497
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:41.039
<v Speaker 1>about that.

498
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:44.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, it makes sense, right, because that is kind

499
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:46.319
<v Speaker 2>of the idea. It is like diamond. It's like the

500
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:49.839
<v Speaker 2>transmutation from diamond into thunder. Like it's very like hoad

501
00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:53.480
<v Speaker 2>nets off, but at the highest order. You could say,

502
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:57.559
<v Speaker 2>and maybe that is what Kelen is also like you

503
00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:01.160
<v Speaker 2>can say, it's an expression of all those dialogs, interactions,

504
00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:04.720
<v Speaker 2>those like the paths between the suffra. It's expressed. I

505
00:27:04.839 --> 00:27:07.240
<v Speaker 2>kind that's how I always used to see it. Now,

506
00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:09.920
<v Speaker 2>as I said, I'm more now I'm comfortable going down

507
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:12.160
<v Speaker 2>the tree as well. But I think if you look

508
00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:15.440
<v Speaker 2>at it from looking upwards, which is the inverse to

509
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:18.359
<v Speaker 2>the Hebrew way, So the Hebrew way is you lower

510
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:22.680
<v Speaker 2>your crown, your actual head, in submission to receive the

511
00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:25.759
<v Speaker 2>knowledge or to receive God's love. In tntra, it's completely

512
00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:29.759
<v Speaker 2>the opposite. It's looking up at the crown in defiance.

513
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:33.960
<v Speaker 1>I like that one thing. If you even find interesting

514
00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.359
<v Speaker 1>with the whole, like crystal, using crystal kind of as

515
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:40.440
<v Speaker 1>like a you know, a way to explain it. You're

516
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:44.160
<v Speaker 1>going to get all those colors emanating from it, you know,

517
00:27:44.279 --> 00:27:46.359
<v Speaker 1>like you get that with crystals anyway, the colors in

518
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:47.920
<v Speaker 1>there when you shine light into it. So, I mean

519
00:27:47.960 --> 00:27:50.680
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of interesting to think about.

520
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:53.839
<v Speaker 2>No, this is this is a great this is a

521
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:58.279
<v Speaker 2>great kind of segue I guess into something Vanessa said.

522
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:00.440
<v Speaker 2>So she said, do you think it takes death the

523
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:05.119
<v Speaker 2>combination of both to reach Keather? And so different people

524
00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:09.480
<v Speaker 2>have different ideas of this. Kenneth Grant would have said,

525
00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:11.720
<v Speaker 2>if you go to death, you can go all the

526
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:14.119
<v Speaker 2>way like you're gone, like you're out of the you know,

527
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:16.680
<v Speaker 2>you're out of the black cu matrix or whatever. Some

528
00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:19.160
<v Speaker 2>people say, I can see that too, and it does

529
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:21.519
<v Speaker 2>actually make sense, and so I'm okay with that. Some

530
00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:23.920
<v Speaker 2>people say that if you go to Keather, you don't

531
00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:26.400
<v Speaker 2>need to go outside because that is outside. It's like

532
00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:29.319
<v Speaker 2>the sort of like we're coming back, falling back down,

533
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:31.960
<v Speaker 2>but we have the we carry the experience with us

534
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:36.799
<v Speaker 2>or people who have been up there, so or some

535
00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:39.119
<v Speaker 2>people have said that it can be like a Tracy

536
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:42.359
<v Speaker 2>twinmon and we'll shout out Lisa obviously is like the

537
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:45.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, the World Archipelago, the hyperspace Kingdom. It's like that.

538
00:28:46.079 --> 00:28:48.400
<v Speaker 2>It was a Tracy's idea, was like the trans Uranian

539
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:50.200
<v Speaker 2>and so we'll talk about this a little later when

540
00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:54.000
<v Speaker 2>we show the sailor moon videos. But there's an idea

541
00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:57.240
<v Speaker 2>that maybe cather and Uranus. Obviously the planets are the

542
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:01.359
<v Speaker 2>least density, maybe not even among the four. Maybe they're

543
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:04.279
<v Speaker 2>the klopathic density. That's an interesting way I've sort of

544
00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:08.039
<v Speaker 2>been exploring thinking about it, like Nasauce space Cabala quote unquote,

545
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:12.680
<v Speaker 2>just an idea, but you know, because they are aggregates,

546
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:16.640
<v Speaker 2>like planets are physical aggregates, they're physical beings. Sepher are

547
00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:21.640
<v Speaker 2>empty space or negative space. Excuse me, So what is

548
00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:25.519
<v Speaker 2>the inverse of negative space? Is something physical dense made

549
00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:26.640
<v Speaker 2>of stone and ice.

550
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:33.319
<v Speaker 1>Are a nice stone and nice Well, one thing I

551
00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:36.559
<v Speaker 1>did want to even throw in there too before I'm

552
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:38.640
<v Speaker 1>sure we'll get into some of the other associations. But

553
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:41.039
<v Speaker 1>even the god name for this is a Hea, which

554
00:29:41.079 --> 00:29:43.960
<v Speaker 1>is mean I am. That's kind of like a reflects

555
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:49.240
<v Speaker 1>pure essence and existence in the buying being. And I

556
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:54.319
<v Speaker 1>even like wonder, like you know, Kether, it does get

557
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:57.160
<v Speaker 1>the number one with it, so I do wonder about

558
00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:00.920
<v Speaker 1>like technically that's like I don't know if like you've

559
00:30:00.920 --> 00:30:03.079
<v Speaker 1>heard kind of Mario go on with the poles and holes,

560
00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:05.799
<v Speaker 1>but it's like kind of giving that sphere number one

561
00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:06.720
<v Speaker 1>is a pole in a hole.

562
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:13.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, okay, so it goes. It's really interesting because in

563
00:30:13.119 --> 00:30:15.319
<v Speaker 2>as I said in TNTRA, there's the goddess is the

564
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:19.400
<v Speaker 2>goddess of paradox. So she's actually standing upon a copulating

565
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:22.640
<v Speaker 2>couple if you look at the iconography, and you can

566
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:24.720
<v Speaker 2>also say in a Buddhist way, so this is a

567
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:28.519
<v Speaker 2>more Buddhist understanding, not an Indian toutric understanding. But she's

568
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:32.599
<v Speaker 2>standing on herself. So it is very much like you

569
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:35.240
<v Speaker 2>are saying, and like Brent is saying, once you're at Keather,

570
00:30:35.319 --> 00:30:38.279
<v Speaker 2>you're back in Malkuth exactly. It is kind of the

571
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:41.400
<v Speaker 2>hyperspace Kingdom, and I agree with what Solar said, going

572
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:43.440
<v Speaker 2>to dat is like walking up to a mirror on

573
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:45.960
<v Speaker 2>clearly consciousness. It's kind of a trapsy as a fixed place.

574
00:30:46.119 --> 00:30:53.039
<v Speaker 2>I agree. So it's like, but you have to reconcile

575
00:30:53.079 --> 00:30:55.680
<v Speaker 2>both experiences, right, It can't just be like you can't

576
00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:58.960
<v Speaker 2>just focus primacy on death or primacy on Kether. Obviously

577
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Kether is the one, but as Brent said, it's also

578
00:31:01.799 --> 00:31:05.839
<v Speaker 2>the ten. So like when Mario's talking about that, for me,

579
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:09.200
<v Speaker 2>we reconcile it always with a male and a female polarity.

580
00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:12.720
<v Speaker 2>That's how it always works. There's no real room for devancy.

581
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:15.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh you know what's really interesting in like an edge

582
00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:17.880
<v Speaker 2>lord way, I'm just that's how I think of it.

583
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:19.519
<v Speaker 1>No, No, I get it, I get it. I mean

584
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:21.079
<v Speaker 1>it is even interesting. I mean again, I guess it

585
00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:22.799
<v Speaker 1>would be an extra zero. But I mean, if you

586
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:24.920
<v Speaker 1>look at Cather, it's like one on a sphere that's

587
00:31:24.920 --> 00:31:27.200
<v Speaker 1>one in a zero, and then the reflection is malt Kouth,

588
00:31:27.240 --> 00:31:30.400
<v Speaker 1>which is the tense sphere, which is another poll in

589
00:31:30.440 --> 00:31:34.119
<v Speaker 1>a hole. That's right now. If you're an add like

590
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:36.000
<v Speaker 1>I guess another whatever, it could be one hundred. But

591
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:39.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, what I'm saying. It still has that. Yeah,

592
00:31:39.079 --> 00:31:40.119
<v Speaker 1>it's interesting to think.

593
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:43.880
<v Speaker 2>About, absolutely. And it's also because the zero is what

594
00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:48.279
<v Speaker 2>it's a later edition from the Sanskrit text, and it's

595
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.559
<v Speaker 2>also an empty number, so very much there's something very

596
00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:55.839
<v Speaker 2>sufferatic about a zero just as it is. And it

597
00:31:55.920 --> 00:31:58.559
<v Speaker 2>also is something very feminine about that because, as we've

598
00:31:58.599 --> 00:32:00.720
<v Speaker 2>often said on the show and again shut out Lisa,

599
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:03.559
<v Speaker 2>but also all the times's I heard me say this,

600
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:08.759
<v Speaker 2>women are less dense than men. They just are. So

601
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:11.720
<v Speaker 2>they're a little more sepharatic, you could say, by nature.

602
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:15.359
<v Speaker 2>That doesn't mean everyone. It just as a rule, you

603
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:17.319
<v Speaker 2>could say, but rules are always meant to be broken.

604
00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:20.839
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, no, I agree that zero is really important.

605
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:23.799
<v Speaker 2>I like to think of it as you said this,

606
00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:27.599
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, yeah, he gets it. There's both

607
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:32.720
<v Speaker 2>expressions in the tree and every suffer And I think

608
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:34.799
<v Speaker 2>that this is where a lot of magicians go wrong.

609
00:32:34.839 --> 00:32:37.640
<v Speaker 2>They just focus on either what we would call like

610
00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:40.599
<v Speaker 2>the shock d or the female component. Obviously this is

611
00:32:40.640 --> 00:32:43.359
<v Speaker 2>a very powerful way to travel through the densities. But

612
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:47.079
<v Speaker 2>then some will only focus on like the male deities

613
00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:50.400
<v Speaker 2>or this pantheon, or they'll mix it all together. And

614
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:53.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't always think that that's the most useful either.

615
00:32:53.799 --> 00:32:55.359
<v Speaker 2>And I think it goes along with what we were

616
00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:59.759
<v Speaker 2>saying about colors, like different densities, the deeper the density. Yes,

617
00:32:59.799 --> 00:33:05.440
<v Speaker 2>it's it should be more difficult and like emotionally phenomenologically,

618
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:10.119
<v Speaker 2>but it also should be uh, you should be actually

619
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:14.400
<v Speaker 2>losing the preconceptions of before, like the kinds of like

620
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:19.680
<v Speaker 2>the husks, like my famous thing, I well famous whatever

621
00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:24.359
<v Speaker 2>that I said, like combusting the husks or breaking the husks.

622
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Is that that's what it is. That's what going through

623
00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:28.960
<v Speaker 2>the densities. So you're kind of letting go of the

624
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:35.039
<v Speaker 2>preconceptions of before. So that's oh yeah, yeah, So I

625
00:33:35.079 --> 00:33:37.599
<v Speaker 2>think that's really important to think about with death, is

626
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:40.920
<v Speaker 2>that like it is about Yeah, it's an infinite place

627
00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:43.160
<v Speaker 2>of rag put, It's an infinite place of like being

628
00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:49.200
<v Speaker 2>expansive consciousness. It's not limited, and Kether isn't necessarily limited,

629
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:51.119
<v Speaker 2>but maybe Keather is reflexive.

630
00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:56.759
<v Speaker 1>I would even say even with Doth sometimes through my

631
00:33:56.839 --> 00:34:00.839
<v Speaker 1>experiences I had I should you did that a little

632
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:03.319
<v Speaker 1>bit too, you know how I've said, oh, like when

633
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:05.519
<v Speaker 1>you open up your eyes, you'll know shit, you didn't know.

634
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.679
<v Speaker 1>I had even maybe attributed to that is that, like

635
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:11.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, that's your experience have to coming back too,

636
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.239
<v Speaker 1>is you know, the wisdom or understanding? I forgot what

637
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:18.599
<v Speaker 1>is associated with that again? Which what is uh doth again?

638
00:34:19.079 --> 00:34:21.840
<v Speaker 1>Because I know wisdom is choke on understanding is, but

639
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:22.880
<v Speaker 1>not what is knowledge?

640
00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Doth knowledge?

641
00:34:24.519 --> 00:34:24.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

642
00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:28.400
<v Speaker 1>Or knowing? I mean if you see that again? For me,

643
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:30.199
<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of things that once I had

644
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:33.360
<v Speaker 1>in my experience, certain things weren't faiths anymore, just they

645
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:36.119
<v Speaker 1>were knowings. So that's why I had kind of got

646
00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:39.920
<v Speaker 1>I wondered if even doth you know applies to after

647
00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:42.000
<v Speaker 1>the magicians made his journey and he's coming back.

648
00:34:44.039 --> 00:34:46.920
<v Speaker 2>I think it does. Personally, I think it exists, like

649
00:34:47.000 --> 00:34:49.719
<v Speaker 2>I think it's if for someone who's made the experience,

650
00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:52.440
<v Speaker 2>I think to have doth on the tream makes complete sense,

651
00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:54.880
<v Speaker 2>and I would include it if I was like constructing

652
00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:58.159
<v Speaker 2>my own. But I think for beginners or like people

653
00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:02.119
<v Speaker 2>just learning, I'm not sure that it it's necessarily useful

654
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:03.880
<v Speaker 2>because then they look at it as like a place

655
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:06.480
<v Speaker 2>that you go rather than a place that you kind

656
00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:08.599
<v Speaker 2>of come to through wisdom and understanding.

657
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:14.280
<v Speaker 1>Gotcha, Uh, if you don't mind, I think I'll just

658
00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:16.519
<v Speaker 1>even I'll read off some of my associations.

659
00:35:16.559 --> 00:35:17.639
<v Speaker 2>You just get them absolutely.

660
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:21.679
<v Speaker 1>I had mentioned before again the god name. Now again

661
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:24.920
<v Speaker 1>this just goes to how Jin mentioned before. Each sphere

662
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:28.239
<v Speaker 1>has four densities. It normally goes like the god name

663
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:31.320
<v Speaker 1>for that sphere that it will go archangel, and then

664
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:34.360
<v Speaker 1>an angelic order, and then like the mundane chakra or

665
00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:38.559
<v Speaker 1>whatever god name for this would be. Again I mentioned

666
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:41.440
<v Speaker 1>a hey, a, I am the archangel. I don't know

667
00:35:41.480 --> 00:35:44.320
<v Speaker 1>if this was someone that you ever got into, but

668
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:49.159
<v Speaker 1>Metatron is associated with the with Cather, you're kind of

669
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:52.440
<v Speaker 1>supposed to be, like, you know, Gareth Knight is somebody

670
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:55.440
<v Speaker 1>that I him and the Unfortune I would refer to

671
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:58.320
<v Speaker 1>sometimes when it comes to cabalistic stuff. I read both

672
00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:01.159
<v Speaker 1>their books, Gareth Knights, so I thought was better because

673
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:03.480
<v Speaker 1>he goes into the pants. It's a fucking gigantic book.

674
00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:06.000
<v Speaker 1>And I mean most people would say that, I mean,

675
00:36:06.039 --> 00:36:08.960
<v Speaker 1>he presides that Metatron presides over the whole tree of

676
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:10.840
<v Speaker 1>life as well as Cather because he's at the top.

677
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:14.840
<v Speaker 1>But that is technically kind of even like how I

678
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:16.920
<v Speaker 1>looked at it, like you know, the head motherfucker before

679
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:17.920
<v Speaker 1>you actually get the cut.

680
00:36:18.679 --> 00:36:21.800
<v Speaker 2>So I think that that's a totally valid way to

681
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:27.599
<v Speaker 2>look at it. I think there is so when we

682
00:36:27.639 --> 00:36:29.719
<v Speaker 2>did the Book of Enoch series, you, Robbie and I,

683
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:34.239
<v Speaker 2>it dawned on me that they believe, at least the

684
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:37.840
<v Speaker 2>people who practice the Enochi and stuff, that you, you

685
00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:40.480
<v Speaker 2>too can be Enoch, like you too can be Metatron.

686
00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:43.719
<v Speaker 2>You two can reach apotheosis. And of course in magic,

687
00:36:43.760 --> 00:36:46.360
<v Speaker 2>this is like a very common idea, right, but maybe

688
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:50.960
<v Speaker 2>it's not that's spoken about in polite circles that you

689
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:55.159
<v Speaker 2>can sort of reach apotheosis or transcend like your limitations.

690
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:58.840
<v Speaker 2>But I actually think that that's an interesting way to

691
00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:02.199
<v Speaker 2>also look at Metatron. It's not like he is you

692
00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:04.239
<v Speaker 2>but not you of right now.

693
00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:07.480
<v Speaker 1>I actually be totally honest with you when it comes

694
00:37:07.480 --> 00:37:09.679
<v Speaker 1>to the trial life. And I've even said this about

695
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:13.079
<v Speaker 1>certain gods were just like even in their stories, if

696
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:15.199
<v Speaker 1>you're going to go have a magical experience and there's

697
00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:17.440
<v Speaker 1>certain things going on and with you spiritually or even

698
00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:21.000
<v Speaker 1>inside your body, you are you're going to become those

699
00:37:21.079 --> 00:37:25.159
<v Speaker 1>characters like you will be Medatron before you cross the Abyss,

700
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:28.320
<v Speaker 1>like I think you do take on these aspects. It's

701
00:37:28.400 --> 00:37:29.800
<v Speaker 1>just a way to describe it, and they give it

702
00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:31.559
<v Speaker 1>a name, but it is an experience that you will

703
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:36.760
<v Speaker 1>have yourself. I think a lot. So like when you're

704
00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:39.000
<v Speaker 1>saying you can become Medatron, yeah, I think you do

705
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:42.239
<v Speaker 1>before before you're blass love. I even think like, oh,

706
00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:43.760
<v Speaker 1>even the whole thing, Like if you think of like

707
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:46.840
<v Speaker 1>how kings, you know those are used a lot, how

708
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:49.159
<v Speaker 1>do they? How do they end up? Like all right,

709
00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:50.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean you could become a king, but if you

710
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:52.840
<v Speaker 1>want to, like let's say, you know, you follow it

711
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:55.079
<v Speaker 1>that you become king, if you want to go conquer

712
00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:56.679
<v Speaker 1>another place, what do you have to do? You have

713
00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:00.760
<v Speaker 1>to slay that motherfucker and take your shit. If you

714
00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:02.679
<v Speaker 1>want to become that, you have to kill it and

715
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:04.519
<v Speaker 1>becoming like it's you know, kind of how I get

716
00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:07.280
<v Speaker 1>into like my whole thing with like using Michael Maris

717
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:10.599
<v Speaker 1>as the beast, the motherfuck is slaying everything in his world,

718
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:13.199
<v Speaker 1>and then you'll be coming in a sense, you'll become

719
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:15.920
<v Speaker 1>the king he took over. You've killed everything else. So

720
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:17.239
<v Speaker 1>it's like, you know, in a sense like are you

721
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:21.280
<v Speaker 1>killing Metatron and becoming him?

722
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:24.000
<v Speaker 2>I mean that would be a valid sort of contract

723
00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:27.320
<v Speaker 2>way to describe what happens. I wouldn't be against that

724
00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:28.360
<v Speaker 2>sort of framework.

725
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:30.000
<v Speaker 1>And it doesn't have to be like, oh, I'm cutting

726
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:31.360
<v Speaker 1>them all the fun, you know, I'm not that. It's

727
00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:32.719
<v Speaker 1>just like you're destroying the idea.

728
00:38:33.239 --> 00:38:33.760
<v Speaker 2>The idea.

729
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:36.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, you know, but you know what I'm getting it?

730
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean that. Look when we did our series,

731
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:44.039
<v Speaker 2>I said, doth is Yamataka. So the slayer of Death,

732
00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:48.280
<v Speaker 2>he literally bring puts Death's head off, puts it on.

733
00:38:49.039 --> 00:38:51.400
<v Speaker 2>It's a big buffalo. So he puts on this big

734
00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:55.119
<v Speaker 2>like How's face, and he takes his skin that he

735
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:57.960
<v Speaker 2>flays off his corpse and then wears it. So it

736
00:38:58.480 --> 00:39:01.280
<v Speaker 2>is he's slaying, but he is. That's the whole thing.

737
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:04.599
<v Speaker 2>He is, the Lord of Death. I think it's killing himself.

738
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:10.320
<v Speaker 1>I think what you just described right there, And I

739
00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:13.960
<v Speaker 1>do think there is some possibility that even this skin

740
00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:17.039
<v Speaker 1>walker ID I do think goes back to the whole

741
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:21.599
<v Speaker 1>thing of like I'm removing the flesh. I'm not part

742
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:22.079
<v Speaker 1>of the flesh.

743
00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:24.880
<v Speaker 2>I think that's what I think.

744
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:28.000
<v Speaker 1>I think after I have a magical experience, I myself

745
00:39:28.079 --> 00:39:31.079
<v Speaker 1>become a skin walker because I have now taken on

746
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:32.840
<v Speaker 1>the flesh. I've come back from the spirit and I'm

747
00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:35.639
<v Speaker 1>a fucking skinwalker with bones and you know, fucking convulsive,

748
00:39:35.639 --> 00:39:38.880
<v Speaker 1>fucking nerves going throughout this world. That's all it is.

749
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:42.760
<v Speaker 1>It sounds like very black, but I do think I mean,

750
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:44.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, if you if you're if you're in it,

751
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:47.119
<v Speaker 1>if you're a spirit and you're not encapsulated anything, and

752
00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:49.039
<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden you're in a body that's surrounded

753
00:39:49.039 --> 00:39:51.519
<v Speaker 1>by skin keeping you fucking entrapped, it sounds like you're

754
00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:52.039
<v Speaker 1>a skinwalker.

755
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:55.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that would be the that would be the

756
00:39:55.840 --> 00:39:58.280
<v Speaker 2>buddhest idea. That would be even the idea of quarks

757
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:00.960
<v Speaker 2>flying and all that like that I joke about sometimes.

758
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:04.000
<v Speaker 1>But but that's not as catchy. It's not really that

759
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:06.360
<v Speaker 1>that catchy to sell on YouTube and podcasts. So I

760
00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:08.800
<v Speaker 1>guess we won't look at it's gotta be that's that

761
00:40:08.840 --> 00:40:11.000
<v Speaker 1>obviously has to be something only on Skinwalker Ranch, right,

762
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:16.800
<v Speaker 1>skin Walker's you know, but I think there's you know,

763
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:19.440
<v Speaker 1>deeper ship to that. I mean, you again, you're even

764
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:22.920
<v Speaker 1>telling how you there's just things of where showing people

765
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:24.920
<v Speaker 1>are moving skin I mean fucking silence of the lambs,

766
00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:26.599
<v Speaker 1>the motherfuckers cutting skin off the people.

767
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:29.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean that is very interesting, isn't it.

768
00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:33.400
<v Speaker 1>The Texas Chainsaw massacre I think is all showing that

769
00:40:33.480 --> 00:40:35.079
<v Speaker 1>ship sweat guy.

770
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:37.480
<v Speaker 2>I totally agree with you. I totally agree with you.

771
00:40:37.559 --> 00:40:41.000
<v Speaker 2>And uh, I also think what soldiers said was interesting,

772
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:44.639
<v Speaker 2>trampling down death by death. That's so try acknowledge hidden

773
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:47.960
<v Speaker 2>within exoteric liturgy. That's this is like Buddhism, is what

774
00:40:48.039 --> 00:40:50.840
<v Speaker 2>he basically just said, because that's the idea is that

775
00:40:50.880 --> 00:40:54.199
<v Speaker 2>you'll be able to take normative texts like the proanapartmy

776
00:40:54.239 --> 00:40:56.880
<v Speaker 2>to Sutras, and from those you'll be able to derive

777
00:40:56.960 --> 00:40:59.360
<v Speaker 2>secret knowledge, to be able to derive death right from

778
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:02.800
<v Speaker 2>the wisdom to us off and with that wisdom you

779
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:05.559
<v Speaker 2>can then move forward and go up the tree into

780
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:10.440
<v Speaker 2>understanding so Saturn. So they're not very interesting, Yeah.

781
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:12.159
<v Speaker 1>I mean not to get into it too much, even

782
00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:15.320
<v Speaker 1>with the you know, it might sounded weird when I

783
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:17.320
<v Speaker 1>said sounds of the Lambs, but I mean if you

784
00:41:17.360 --> 00:41:19.239
<v Speaker 1>think about that, it's a movie with a fucking mouth.

785
00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:22.119
<v Speaker 1>So now you get the whole death and rebirth, you know,

786
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:24.199
<v Speaker 1>whole rising from the ashes, and you got this guy

787
00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:27.880
<v Speaker 1>who wants you know, slaying people and obviously needs skin

788
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:31.440
<v Speaker 1>for when he's done. Well, when you fucking kill everybody

789
00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:33.079
<v Speaker 1>and then kill yourself, you need a body to come

790
00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:33.320
<v Speaker 1>back to.

791
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Maybe he was a Calvinist and maybe he just didn't

792
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:39.559
<v Speaker 2>understand the magical experience. He took it so literally. We

793
00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:43.079
<v Speaker 2>were joking about this before recording. But someone who just jokes,

794
00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:46.480
<v Speaker 2>they don't understand the magical experience. They take it so literally.

795
00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:50.519
<v Speaker 2>I've even wanted to circular.

796
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:57.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, right, all right, So yeah we got Metatron then, uh,

797
00:41:57.159 --> 00:41:59.239
<v Speaker 1>then you also have for the angelic order. I don't

798
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:03.000
<v Speaker 1>even know, child hak Kadash or whatever, the holy living

799
00:42:03.039 --> 00:42:05.719
<v Speaker 1>creatures those are supposed to be. These are high celestial

800
00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:10.880
<v Speaker 1>beings described in biblical visions like Ezekiel's vision as This

801
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.360
<v Speaker 1>is something that people might actually have heard before. I

802
00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:15.800
<v Speaker 1>think it's on Tarot cards. I think it's on Croley cards.

803
00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:16.599
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

804
00:42:16.760 --> 00:42:20.039
<v Speaker 1>These are the high celestial beings described in biblical visions

805
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:23.960
<v Speaker 1>as the four faced creatures supporting God's throne. They're often

806
00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:27.079
<v Speaker 1>depicted as the four chrubic creatures, the Bowl, the Line,

807
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:31.239
<v Speaker 1>the Eagle, and Man. Gareth Knight explains that these four

808
00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:34.519
<v Speaker 1>form of the angelic choir of Kenther, embodying the prime

809
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:40.800
<v Speaker 1>ordal eternal elemental powers. Sorry Funck, that'll he believes that

810
00:42:40.840 --> 00:42:45.320
<v Speaker 1>the four of those are embodying the prime primal elemental

811
00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:48.840
<v Speaker 1>powers in their archetypal form, which is kind of how

812
00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:50.840
<v Speaker 1>I think Crowley had used it on his card in

813
00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:53.880
<v Speaker 1>this sense. But yeah, I mean even there, you get.

814
00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:57.599
<v Speaker 1>I know, Barrios talked about it. These some of these

815
00:42:57.599 --> 00:42:59.679
<v Speaker 1>symbols have come up, you know, multiple times on this show.

816
00:42:59.719 --> 00:43:03.159
<v Speaker 1>But like, yeah, these are ascribed with I guess Catherine

817
00:43:03.159 --> 00:43:04.519
<v Speaker 1>a sense with the angelic quorder.

818
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:09.840
<v Speaker 2>I agree with that. I agree that well, I agree

819
00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:12.760
<v Speaker 2>that there is sort of that expression is with the

820
00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:14.880
<v Speaker 2>four animals. That makes a lot of sense to me.

821
00:43:15.000 --> 00:43:18.199
<v Speaker 2>There's iconography to sort of correlate to that. And I

822
00:43:18.239 --> 00:43:21.039
<v Speaker 2>also think that the top deck is probably the best.

823
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:23.360
<v Speaker 2>I know, this is very contentious, and I'm not a

824
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:25.599
<v Speaker 2>natural Tarot card reader in any way, nor do I

825
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:29.679
<v Speaker 2>know Cabala through Taro, but I have used a tot

826
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:33.400
<v Speaker 2>deck for a long time off and on, and although

827
00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:35.599
<v Speaker 2>the writer Wait Duck is really good, I have to

828
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:38.360
<v Speaker 2>say that there's something much deeper about the top deck

829
00:43:38.519 --> 00:43:39.159
<v Speaker 2>in my opinion.

830
00:43:39.239 --> 00:43:43.000
<v Speaker 1>No, I do, yeah, I do, actually, yeah, Like I

831
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:45.840
<v Speaker 1>do need to get myself at deck of that actually bot.

832
00:43:47.199 --> 00:43:49.239
<v Speaker 1>When I first got to North Carolina a few months ago,

833
00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:52.400
<v Speaker 1>I checked out there's like three like three occult shops

834
00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:54.039
<v Speaker 1>within like ten minutes for me, so I was like, wow,

835
00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:56.639
<v Speaker 1>that's that's pretty cool. I went to one of them

836
00:43:56.679 --> 00:43:59.920
<v Speaker 1>and they had the tarot deck that Lucks used to

837
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:02.039
<v Speaker 1>using the Golden Dome that was like black and white

838
00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:05.239
<v Speaker 1>and that's fucking hard to find. Kind of I grabed

839
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:07.639
<v Speaker 1>that and that one. I actually had wanted to think

840
00:44:07.639 --> 00:44:10.880
<v Speaker 1>about covering it because like the major arcanda, if you

841
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:12.639
<v Speaker 1>were to see a things that I point out a

842
00:44:12.679 --> 00:44:15.039
<v Speaker 1>lot to have to do with eyeball symbolism. It's like, Yo,

843
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:17.639
<v Speaker 1>that ship is literally all over that deck. Like I

844
00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:20.039
<v Speaker 1>was like, Yo, this might actually be like more symbolic

845
00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:24.280
<v Speaker 1>towards eye bullshit. But the tooth deck, I do think

846
00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:28.280
<v Speaker 1>that that's it. Yeah, I am impressed with that deck.

847
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:32.719
<v Speaker 1>I'll have to say it is what it is. I mean, oh, no,

848
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:37.800
<v Speaker 1>it is very interesting. There's a lot of I honestly

849
00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:41.119
<v Speaker 1>think there's in that toot deck. I think you're seeing

850
00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:43.599
<v Speaker 1>light reflection. I think you're seeing the eyeballs, and I

851
00:44:43.639 --> 00:44:46.440
<v Speaker 1>think you're seeing the brain. That's you know, I know,

852
00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:48.239
<v Speaker 1>people don't want to give that dude credit.

853
00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:52.679
<v Speaker 2>But like a lot of the paintings are very like

854
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:55.079
<v Speaker 2>through crystals, like as light with THREEC.

855
00:44:55.400 --> 00:44:58.320
<v Speaker 1>Yes, even the Magician car, fucking Magician car looks like

856
00:44:58.360 --> 00:45:00.000
<v Speaker 1>he's blasted off through like flection.

857
00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:03.559
<v Speaker 2>Right, I mean it does. The whole thing is very

858
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:06.599
<v Speaker 2>whoever did it, whether it's Crowley or someone else, like

859
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:09.960
<v Speaker 2>whoever arranged those cars, it's very good. Kabala, I like

860
00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:12.360
<v Speaker 2>it a lot. I think it's to pick something. I

861
00:45:12.440 --> 00:45:15.480
<v Speaker 2>think preserve something, and I think it's a you know,

862
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:17.239
<v Speaker 2>even if you're not like for me, I'm not interested

863
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:19.920
<v Speaker 2>in Taro that much, but I think for meditation reasons,

864
00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:22.880
<v Speaker 2>I think the Tomberg stuff, a lot of the you know,

865
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:26.400
<v Speaker 2>the more og guys they do the Tomberg meditations with

866
00:45:26.480 --> 00:45:28.639
<v Speaker 2>the toad deck and I think actually makes sense.

867
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:31.199
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, and Rebirth of the World correct when they

868
00:45:31.280 --> 00:45:34.280
<v Speaker 1>do show those, sorry, when they do show those that

869
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:38.199
<v Speaker 1>they are the cardinal points. Yeah, you know what, I

870
00:45:38.239 --> 00:45:40.840
<v Speaker 1>had even wondered about those animals or the things that

871
00:45:40.880 --> 00:45:43.480
<v Speaker 1>they choose. This would be too much to get into

872
00:45:43.519 --> 00:45:45.159
<v Speaker 1>to try to even probably figure out right now on

873
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:48.280
<v Speaker 1>the fly, but just going by them, I mean, uh,

874
00:45:48.440 --> 00:45:50.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you have man, you have eagle, and you

875
00:45:50.360 --> 00:45:53.559
<v Speaker 1>know bird seed. Differently, they're also like higher up. I mean,

876
00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:55.679
<v Speaker 1>obviously they spend time in the air in the skies,

877
00:45:56.119 --> 00:45:57.519
<v Speaker 1>you know, with the bowl on the line. I'm just

878
00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:00.239
<v Speaker 1>wondering if they're like I guarantee you there's some sort

879
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:03.559
<v Speaker 1>of like deep deep symbolism between that, like even their

880
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:06.559
<v Speaker 1>makeup or their their place in the world, you know,

881
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:14.440
<v Speaker 1>or even like even I would say, uh, specific things

882
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:17.960
<v Speaker 1>about the physiology. I think might actually even be reasons

883
00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:18.599
<v Speaker 1>why they're used.

884
00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:23.960
<v Speaker 2>I agree with you. I think it's physiological or formations

885
00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:26.559
<v Speaker 2>of Like I tend to think of everything as like words,

886
00:46:26.599 --> 00:46:29.920
<v Speaker 2>like they're trying to represent like primordial sounds or words,

887
00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:32.360
<v Speaker 2>and they might do it in a specific way. Now,

888
00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Mario obviously looks at everything through astro theology. So I

889
00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:39.239
<v Speaker 2>don't think either way is wrong. I think actually maybe

890
00:46:39.239 --> 00:46:39.760
<v Speaker 2>both of them.

891
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Both.

892
00:46:41.440 --> 00:46:43.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. So it's just like

893
00:46:43.880 --> 00:46:45.599
<v Speaker 2>depends on how you look at it, because I think

894
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:48.000
<v Speaker 2>that there are relations for both, and I think there's

895
00:46:48.039 --> 00:46:50.079
<v Speaker 2>an argument you made for both and including the booth

896
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:51.320
<v Speaker 2>is smarter. I agree.

897
00:46:55.000 --> 00:46:59.199
<v Speaker 1>The virtue for this fear, this sphere, the attainment the

898
00:46:59.280 --> 00:47:04.760
<v Speaker 1>realization of this union and fulfillment of spiritual purpose. I think,

899
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:07.119
<v Speaker 1>if I remember correctly, I could be wrong, Jim, but

900
00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:09.679
<v Speaker 1>I think kethere maybe the only sphere with no vice,

901
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:12.360
<v Speaker 1>because you know it's supposed to be. I guess you

902
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:15.559
<v Speaker 1>know perfect or an extent, it exists beyond duality. So

903
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:17.880
<v Speaker 1>I guess there is no really right or wrong at

904
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:18.920
<v Speaker 1>that point. Maybe I don't know.

905
00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:22.440
<v Speaker 2>That is definitely a one way to understand it. That's

906
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:24.599
<v Speaker 2>definitely one way to even express it, is like you're

907
00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:28.079
<v Speaker 2>beyond dualities and like again, to reference the series is

908
00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:32.400
<v Speaker 2>like Chinnamasta, she stands upon herself. She's above herself, above

909
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:35.079
<v Speaker 2>lust particularly, but it can be understood to be all

910
00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:38.239
<v Speaker 2>kinds of mind poisons, of which there are five. So

911
00:47:39.400 --> 00:47:43.239
<v Speaker 2>but she specific specifically, excuse me, stands on lust. So

912
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:48.039
<v Speaker 2>I just think or carnal desire, you could say. So,

913
00:47:48.239 --> 00:47:50.719
<v Speaker 2>I agree with you. I think that there is no virtue,

914
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:53.960
<v Speaker 2>but I think or no vice.

915
00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:54.440
<v Speaker 1>Excuse me.

916
00:47:54.639 --> 00:47:56.599
<v Speaker 2>But I also think it's like how you understand it?

917
00:47:56.639 --> 00:47:58.519
<v Speaker 2>Do you take it in that way that you said,

918
00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:01.639
<v Speaker 2>where you're beyond good evil? And then some people, obviously

919
00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:04.760
<v Speaker 2>modern occultists, interpret that as being like whatever all the

920
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:08.280
<v Speaker 2>things I do after I come back down are sort

921
00:48:08.280 --> 00:48:10.800
<v Speaker 2>of like in this range of beyond good and evil

922
00:48:11.239 --> 00:48:13.960
<v Speaker 2>or do you understand that to be like non duality

923
00:48:14.079 --> 00:48:17.239
<v Speaker 2>in your consciousness? So I would say that there's a paradox,

924
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:19.599
<v Speaker 2>but I agree that there's not at there's not an advice.

925
00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, uh oh, I'm sorry. I was looking at

926
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:29.960
<v Speaker 1>my notes that I got I lost it. Yeah, And

927
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:32.320
<v Speaker 1>then you know what, Unfortunately for some reason I started

928
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:34.280
<v Speaker 1>having the other colors, and I guess maybe I just

929
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:36.800
<v Speaker 1>didn't put them all in, but I was going to

930
00:48:36.840 --> 00:48:42.159
<v Speaker 1>get into a Ibria that one is normally considered uh

931
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:46.719
<v Speaker 1>with brilliance, pure white brilliance. And then at some point

932
00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:50.400
<v Speaker 1>there is a oh yeah, and then Asaiah that's the

933
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:53.440
<v Speaker 1>pure light is allfo shorn with a slight differential, and

934
00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:56.719
<v Speaker 1>that is white flecked with gold like you had mentioned before.

935
00:48:58.119 --> 00:49:01.800
<v Speaker 1>So even the colors changed throughout those for a world

936
00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:04.960
<v Speaker 1>uh for me, And again, like I just do want

937
00:49:04.960 --> 00:49:06.320
<v Speaker 1>to mention it. If you go look at the tree

938
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:09.800
<v Speaker 1>of life, I mean you do basically see at the

939
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:12.639
<v Speaker 1>top sphere it comes down into the two pillars and

940
00:49:12.639 --> 00:49:14.960
<v Speaker 1>then drops down and then if you see you know

941
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:17.800
<v Speaker 1>this from kenther down the middle pillar. It drops all

942
00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:20.239
<v Speaker 1>the way down. So something I am just trying to

943
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:23.400
<v Speaker 1>really I guess hammer in there is that it is

944
00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:27.800
<v Speaker 1>within every sphere as well. In my opinion. Uh, I

945
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:33.079
<v Speaker 1>would even say sometimes like I Kether, I would uh

946
00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:35.679
<v Speaker 1>look at that as a fuck. I just lost my

947
00:49:35.719 --> 00:49:37.719
<v Speaker 1>train of thought.

948
00:49:38.039 --> 00:49:40.119
<v Speaker 2>Fuck that's what you mean?

949
00:49:40.480 --> 00:49:42.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, fuck, I just had something too, and I

950
00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:44.719
<v Speaker 1>was like a fuck, And it was something I've been

951
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:47.000
<v Speaker 1>wanting to say over and over again, totally forgot, just

952
00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:49.320
<v Speaker 1>slipped out of my head like that, what the fuck.

953
00:49:50.639 --> 00:49:53.960
<v Speaker 2>It happens? Yeah, it's okay. Well, I agree with you.

954
00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:55.800
<v Speaker 2>I think that there's also an element of Kether that

955
00:49:55.880 --> 00:49:57.480
<v Speaker 2>is in every supper. I think that's what you were

956
00:49:57.480 --> 00:49:59.519
<v Speaker 2>also were kind of saying, like there's an element of

957
00:49:59.559 --> 00:50:04.679
<v Speaker 2>like deep, profound, almost ineffable love. And so if you've

958
00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:10.960
<v Speaker 2>had that, I think it's it almost is beyond like articulation.

959
00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:15.400
<v Speaker 2>So it becomes this kind of like nebulous game like

960
00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:18.159
<v Speaker 2>what do you really experience? How do you describe what

961
00:50:18.199 --> 00:50:22.960
<v Speaker 2>you really experience? And Kether is sort of like innumerable

962
00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:26.480
<v Speaker 2>in that way. It's just like so full of something

963
00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:30.440
<v Speaker 2>so beyond what we could even use words to describe,

964
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:34.239
<v Speaker 2>like how the light exactly what you said there is

965
00:50:34.280 --> 00:50:36.559
<v Speaker 2>like a I don't know. I think of it as

966
00:50:36.599 --> 00:50:38.280
<v Speaker 2>like an eclipse before a horizon.

967
00:50:39.719 --> 00:50:44.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I you know, it's really and I was going

968
00:50:44.400 --> 00:50:46.519
<v Speaker 1>to use this and this is a part of where

969
00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:49.079
<v Speaker 1>I was going. I don't want to try to try

970
00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:52.039
<v Speaker 1>to lose it again, even like you said the eclipse

971
00:50:52.039 --> 00:50:56.719
<v Speaker 1>and stuff. Uh, I would even say with kether, I

972
00:50:56.760 --> 00:51:01.440
<v Speaker 1>mean that's kind of like light before there's like even

973
00:51:01.599 --> 00:51:04.880
<v Speaker 1>sound to it, because you know sound travels is slower

974
00:51:04.920 --> 00:51:08.320
<v Speaker 1>than light, or you know lights travels fasted and sound,

975
00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:11.360
<v Speaker 1>I know, to break it down into that, maybe maybe

976
00:51:11.400 --> 00:51:13.920
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't sound as wild they're crazy, but I mean

977
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:16.159
<v Speaker 1>I do think even an extent again, how I even

978
00:51:16.239 --> 00:51:18.760
<v Speaker 1>used the crystal and how it shows all these colors.

979
00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:21.840
<v Speaker 1>Could kether literally be just that flash of light of

980
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:26.280
<v Speaker 1>existence or something coming into existence that can eventually, like

981
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:29.440
<v Speaker 1>you said, at birth, you get that flash of light

982
00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:32.559
<v Speaker 1>because the fucking that sperm, that one made it into

983
00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:36.280
<v Speaker 1>the zero and now there's the flash of light and

984
00:51:36.320 --> 00:51:39.320
<v Speaker 1>something can eventually take form and then be spit out

985
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:43.199
<v Speaker 1>into this world. Is that kind of like kether? You

986
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:45.920
<v Speaker 1>know that light flash and then all that stuff ingests

987
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:48.519
<v Speaker 1>for nine months and then gets ship out and tell

988
00:51:48.559 --> 00:51:51.679
<v Speaker 1>Malkouth when it's done.

989
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:56.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's definitely one way that people have thought

990
00:51:56.679 --> 00:51:59.519
<v Speaker 2>about it is that like you know, like some neo

991
00:51:59.559 --> 00:52:00.840
<v Speaker 2>gnostic definitely think.

992
00:52:00.679 --> 00:52:03.039
<v Speaker 1>Like, oh I don't say that, don't say that. I'm sorry,

993
00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:04.880
<v Speaker 1>call on the Nazis already. Fuck.

994
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:09.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, some people believe that it, you know, through that

995
00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:12.639
<v Speaker 2>expression of light and then it's like into the lower forces,

996
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:15.360
<v Speaker 2>which is sound exactly what Nick said. That makes complete sense.

997
00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:18.360
<v Speaker 2>It like reverberates. People like talk about yasod being like

998
00:52:18.480 --> 00:52:21.920
<v Speaker 2>a kind of reverberating crystal, but not maybe of the

999
00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:24.840
<v Speaker 2>same clarity as Keather. That's an interesting way to think

1000
00:52:24.840 --> 00:52:28.599
<v Speaker 2>about it. Uh yeah, so it reverberates at our lower frequency,

1001
00:52:29.280 --> 00:52:32.360
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, I think so we then exist at a

1002
00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:34.840
<v Speaker 2>lower frequency. But I try and give it like a

1003
00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:38.960
<v Speaker 2>more optimistic I guess or utopian or maybe you know,

1004
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:42.760
<v Speaker 2>as the kids say keathermaxing idea that yeah, it doesn't

1005
00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:44.960
<v Speaker 2>matter if we're in the lower world, we still try

1006
00:52:44.960 --> 00:52:49.440
<v Speaker 2>and go up. I don't know, just say give people

1007
00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:52.760
<v Speaker 2>like a little People seem to want impetus to like

1008
00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:57.800
<v Speaker 2>they want to be passive agents of like astrology or magic,

1009
00:52:57.960 --> 00:53:00.519
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, no, you should take a more act deverall,

1010
00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:03.840
<v Speaker 2>so regardless of how we appear in the world, we

1011
00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:05.400
<v Speaker 2>should still try and climb.

1012
00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:10.039
<v Speaker 1>One thing I did want to mention too, you know

1013
00:53:10.079 --> 00:53:12.960
<v Speaker 1>about Kether how I even like, you know, even mentioned

1014
00:53:12.960 --> 00:53:15.199
<v Speaker 1>like the whole birth thing. You know, I even find

1015
00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:17.719
<v Speaker 1>that interesting. Again, you know, this is only going by

1016
00:53:17.719 --> 00:53:20.360
<v Speaker 1>my experience. Maybe my experience is bullshit. Maybe it was just,

1017
00:53:20.400 --> 00:53:22.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, something fucking happened in my brain and I

1018
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:25.480
<v Speaker 1>just lost it. But again with that whole eclipse thing,

1019
00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:27.480
<v Speaker 1>like I'm talking about that flesh of light, and it's like,

1020
00:53:27.519 --> 00:53:30.920
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of interesting how you you come into a

1021
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:34.159
<v Speaker 1>flesh of light around a circle and if that is

1022
00:53:34.159 --> 00:53:36.119
<v Speaker 1>me crossing the abyss, I mean you're going out seeing

1023
00:53:36.119 --> 00:53:36.599
<v Speaker 1>the same shit.

1024
00:53:40.360 --> 00:53:42.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is the thing. And then maybe this

1025
00:53:42.199 --> 00:53:46.119
<v Speaker 2>is a good segue into Bennah. Is that construction of

1026
00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:49.800
<v Speaker 2>light you could say, around the birth canal, like when

1027
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:54.199
<v Speaker 2>you're sort of perceiving it coming outwards or when you're

1028
00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:58.079
<v Speaker 2>kind of going inwards into death experience, that kind of

1029
00:53:58.119 --> 00:54:01.719
<v Speaker 2>restriction of light is not it's sort of a good

1030
00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:04.239
<v Speaker 2>I've heard other people describe it in a similar way

1031
00:54:04.840 --> 00:54:07.400
<v Speaker 2>or as a pinpoint camera. It sort of gives the

1032
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:09.079
<v Speaker 2>light contour and meaning.

1033
00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:12.119
<v Speaker 1>You know that that is a really good point. I

1034
00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:13.800
<v Speaker 1>just want to throw this in there before I forget

1035
00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:16.480
<v Speaker 1>this is even something I've even thought about with Janice,

1036
00:54:16.480 --> 00:54:18.920
<v Speaker 1>because I swear and I do think Janice falls on

1037
00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:22.880
<v Speaker 1>chokema my experience, I am getting a white light and

1038
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:26.519
<v Speaker 1>then a black sphere and eventually they pull apart. Janice

1039
00:54:26.559 --> 00:54:30.119
<v Speaker 1>has been associated with doors and hinges. Well, if you

1040
00:54:30.119 --> 00:54:31.760
<v Speaker 1>have a hinge or a door or something like that,

1041
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:34.360
<v Speaker 1>you're gonna swing that fucking black sphere away from that

1042
00:54:34.440 --> 00:54:40.000
<v Speaker 1>fucking white one. I know this may sound crazy, I'm

1043
00:54:40.039 --> 00:54:41.519
<v Speaker 1>sort of like, look at it like that if even

1044
00:54:41.519 --> 00:54:43.039
<v Speaker 1>if you think about it on the picture on the

1045
00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:46.719
<v Speaker 1>tree the way it's it's that could look like age

1046
00:54:47.320 --> 00:54:49.800
<v Speaker 1>Like that sounds nutty.

1047
00:54:49.480 --> 00:54:53.480
<v Speaker 2>But it doesn't. It really doesn't. This is a really

1048
00:54:53.519 --> 00:54:56.199
<v Speaker 2>good way to express like what happens. It's like the

1049
00:54:56.280 --> 00:54:58.679
<v Speaker 2>light drops down from calor as you said, it goes

1050
00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:01.440
<v Speaker 2>through chokemoil. You can say this is where like the soul,

1051
00:55:01.639 --> 00:55:04.719
<v Speaker 2>like what people think they are, that sort of is

1052
00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:06.320
<v Speaker 2>like there, but it's not in a body.

1053
00:55:06.360 --> 00:55:06.440
<v Speaker 3>Ye.

1054
00:55:06.519 --> 00:55:08.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you come to face to face with God is

1055
00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:10.440
<v Speaker 1>the expression there. So if you even think about it,

1056
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:14.039
<v Speaker 1>your God thinking this is me right, and then you

1057
00:55:14.119 --> 00:55:15.000
<v Speaker 1>go into form.

1058
00:55:16.360 --> 00:55:18.880
<v Speaker 2>You have the idea of what uity It totally makes sense.

1059
00:55:19.440 --> 00:55:21.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, you see yourself and then but not in

1060
00:55:21.639 --> 00:55:23.840
<v Speaker 1>my opinion, you're getting into thoughts and then that's where

1061
00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:25.599
<v Speaker 1>you start compiling what you think you just looked at,

1062
00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:29.239
<v Speaker 1>and that's what you become something there then you.

1063
00:55:29.199 --> 00:55:31.679
<v Speaker 2>Know, no, absolutely, this makes sense even in the Sailor

1064
00:55:31.719 --> 00:55:34.639
<v Speaker 2>moonclips I shows, because you'll see, like in their distinct

1065
00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:38.840
<v Speaker 2>powers that they do kind of embody these suffaratic concepts

1066
00:55:39.400 --> 00:55:42.800
<v Speaker 2>like that they'll have sort of like expressions like how

1067
00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:44.719
<v Speaker 2>I always think of Pokemo, like yes, I agree with

1068
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:49.639
<v Speaker 2>you Janice one hundred percent. It's like a well, I

1069
00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:52.320
<v Speaker 2>think it's an odin. So I've said this before, so.

1070
00:55:52.440 --> 00:55:55.119
<v Speaker 1>I think I think perfect for that perfect to that odin.

1071
00:55:55.760 --> 00:55:59.079
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's not expression. It can be also smoky,

1072
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:02.039
<v Speaker 2>meaning that you can tell what's around it. It's like

1073
00:56:02.159 --> 00:56:04.840
<v Speaker 2>very hard to discern. It doesn't have good understanding, but

1074
00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:06.599
<v Speaker 2>it can be also be like a fool, like the

1075
00:56:06.599 --> 00:56:08.599
<v Speaker 2>fool's card in Tarot is a really good way to

1076
00:56:08.840 --> 00:56:11.239
<v Speaker 2>express that it's like a guy he's going to step

1077
00:56:11.239 --> 00:56:14.000
<v Speaker 2>off the abyss, but he doesn't really know. He's already

1078
00:56:14.039 --> 00:56:17.320
<v Speaker 2>climbing to the higher mountain. He doesn't really need to

1079
00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:19.840
<v Speaker 2>drop off, right, but he's not really also paying attention.

1080
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:24.719
<v Speaker 2>So it's kind of a fool in the most essential way.

1081
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:28.079
<v Speaker 2>And I think that it confuses a lot of people

1082
00:56:28.159 --> 00:56:31.000
<v Speaker 2>to think that that is like number one, but Hokemow's

1083
00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:33.679
<v Speaker 2>really two. And so I do think that that is

1084
00:56:33.840 --> 00:56:37.440
<v Speaker 2>a point of you know, Pathogoras preferred the two, and

1085
00:56:37.480 --> 00:56:39.719
<v Speaker 2>it makes sense in Buddhism as well. We would say

1086
00:56:39.760 --> 00:56:41.760
<v Speaker 2>that there's like more of a diad, but we also

1087
00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:44.199
<v Speaker 2>have a flexible system, so as we say there's like

1088
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:48.079
<v Speaker 2>a pentad or eight or whoever, it doesn't matter really,

1089
00:56:48.119 --> 00:56:51.880
<v Speaker 2>but we're more like there's more flexibility. But if you're

1090
00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:54.239
<v Speaker 2>more Pythagorean, you would prefer the two. And I do

1091
00:56:54.400 --> 00:56:56.599
<v Speaker 2>understand that. And so I could see where people are

1092
00:56:56.639 --> 00:56:59.280
<v Speaker 2>drawing like a face of God. So I think that

1093
00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Janus thing is perfect because it is kind of like

1094
00:57:01.519 --> 00:57:04.559
<v Speaker 2>a mask of God, like a Maha Vishnu who wears

1095
00:57:05.079 --> 00:57:07.719
<v Speaker 2>one thousand and eight faces.

1096
00:57:09.679 --> 00:57:11.400
<v Speaker 1>And it's interesting that you didn't mention the fool That

1097
00:57:11.480 --> 00:57:13.079
<v Speaker 1>is the card that connects to Chokla.

1098
00:57:14.719 --> 00:57:16.880
<v Speaker 2>One of the few that I actually know because I

1099
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:22.800
<v Speaker 2>did an anime series with Monty on. The anime is

1100
00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Forgetting Leaving Me one hundred percent. Oh a DGray Man,

1101
00:57:26.039 --> 00:57:28.679
<v Speaker 2>and so he has he is a fool card like

1102
00:57:28.719 --> 00:57:32.280
<v Speaker 2>it's the motif throughout the entire anime. He like owns

1103
00:57:32.320 --> 00:57:34.880
<v Speaker 2>a fool card. He has like the clown sort of

1104
00:57:34.920 --> 00:57:39.360
<v Speaker 2>tattooed on his eyebrow. He uses like fool card colors,

1105
00:57:39.800 --> 00:57:42.280
<v Speaker 2>and so it just it completely makes sense to like

1106
00:57:42.360 --> 00:57:44.440
<v Speaker 2>everything you're saying. So I remembered it. So it's not

1107
00:57:44.559 --> 00:57:47.440
<v Speaker 2>me being good at Taro. I'll just admit it's I

1108
00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:50.280
<v Speaker 2>learned that for that episode. So it's.

1109
00:57:51.519 --> 00:57:53.880
<v Speaker 1>I've learned more about Taro because I've decided to cover

1110
00:57:53.920 --> 00:57:56.320
<v Speaker 1>it all the show that I did Brian in some ways,

1111
00:57:56.360 --> 00:57:59.960
<v Speaker 1>believe it or not. So you want to play one

1112
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:01.199
<v Speaker 1>those videos so you can talk.

1113
00:58:01.519 --> 00:58:02.119
<v Speaker 2>Let's go for it.

1114
00:58:02.440 --> 00:58:04.079
<v Speaker 1>This is I think this is the first one, if

1115
00:58:04.360 --> 00:58:06.199
<v Speaker 1>the one that didn't work, all right, So here we go.

1116
00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:08.079
<v Speaker 1>Let me bring up the volume a little bit.

1117
00:58:20.679 --> 00:58:22.719
<v Speaker 2>It's not her transformation. I just want to say that

1118
00:58:22.840 --> 00:58:26.079
<v Speaker 2>that's interesting. Although there are colors that are interesting. It's

1119
00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:28.559
<v Speaker 2>really her talks that are interesting that I think you'll

1120
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:29.679
<v Speaker 2>find also interesting.

1121
00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:37.119
<v Speaker 1>Well, I find her with the green and red is

1122
00:58:37.159 --> 00:58:39.039
<v Speaker 1>the reason interesting. I mean, this is like two female

1123
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:40.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of colors in the tree.

1124
00:58:41.440 --> 00:58:58.440
<v Speaker 2>I agree. So we're talks called bed Scream and the

1125
00:58:58.840 --> 00:59:01.800
<v Speaker 2>one of the one of the videos that it does

1126
00:59:01.880 --> 00:59:04.440
<v Speaker 2>work is going to have a line from Sailor Saturn

1127
00:59:04.480 --> 00:59:06.760
<v Speaker 2>and she's going, I am the time of Silence. I

1128
00:59:06.840 --> 00:59:10.440
<v Speaker 2>just I should have waited until you could put it

1129
00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:12.679
<v Speaker 2>up to say it, because I was like, oh, Nick

1130
00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:15.519
<v Speaker 2>will love this. But it is interesting because they always

1131
00:59:15.519 --> 00:59:18.320
<v Speaker 2>work together. So I like to say that Pluto is

1132
00:59:18.360 --> 00:59:21.519
<v Speaker 2>at death and like those are the inter relationship. Now,

1133
00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:24.599
<v Speaker 2>some people don't like this, and I'm totally fine with that.

1134
00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:27.159
<v Speaker 2>I actually think that there could be a flexibility between

1135
00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Uranus and Pluto. Like I think you could have Pluto

1136
00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:35.679
<v Speaker 2>at Heather or Pluto at death, depending on maybe the

1137
00:59:35.719 --> 00:59:38.159
<v Speaker 2>aon or depending on the system you're using. I think

1138
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:41.440
<v Speaker 2>there's both ideas that are okay. So, but I like

1139
00:59:41.480 --> 00:59:44.760
<v Speaker 2>Pluto because as you see, she has a key that's

1140
00:59:44.800 --> 00:59:48.400
<v Speaker 2>her wand and the key is talked with a heart,

1141
00:59:48.840 --> 00:59:50.960
<v Speaker 2>so you could say love is the cause of knowledge

1142
00:59:51.079 --> 00:59:53.840
<v Speaker 2>in a very real way, and she opens the gateway

1143
00:59:53.920 --> 00:59:57.679
<v Speaker 2>the threshold, which is also part of what the mythos

1144
00:59:57.719 --> 01:00:00.199
<v Speaker 2>of death we can say is is the threshold to

1145
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:03.159
<v Speaker 2>the abyssle world or to the Klipa. Although you can

1146
01:00:03.199 --> 01:00:05.920
<v Speaker 2>also say this about the moon about you sewed. You

1147
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:08.199
<v Speaker 2>could say there's a secret path there that goes right

1148
01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:10.760
<v Speaker 2>to death. Some people have said that I agree with

1149
01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:13.760
<v Speaker 2>that actually as well. And so in the anime, what

1150
01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:16.880
<v Speaker 2>is really interesting is there is a little girl, a

1151
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:21.039
<v Speaker 2>princess of the klipas you could say, who sailor Pluto

1152
01:00:21.159 --> 01:00:25.639
<v Speaker 2>takes as under her wing. So very interesting you sewed

1153
01:00:25.880 --> 01:00:29.280
<v Speaker 2>or a moon a lunar Pluto connection, I think in

1154
01:00:29.320 --> 01:00:32.320
<v Speaker 2>her kind of iconography, and that's and so I would

1155
01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:34.880
<v Speaker 2>say that that's death and more of a if you're

1156
01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:37.400
<v Speaker 2>just doing like a more teaching people like the general

1157
01:00:37.440 --> 01:00:39.880
<v Speaker 2>ideas of the suffer. I like Pluto with death, and

1158
01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:42.840
<v Speaker 2>I think that she actually correlates really well. And I

1159
01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:46.119
<v Speaker 2>think that the lady who did it was really into Taro,

1160
01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:49.039
<v Speaker 2>and so through Taro, I think she also understands a

1161
01:00:49.079 --> 01:00:50.599
<v Speaker 2>lot of kabbala as well.

1162
01:00:53.880 --> 01:00:55.440
<v Speaker 1>Did you want me to pull up another one or

1163
01:00:55.480 --> 01:00:55.920
<v Speaker 1>did you yes?

1164
01:00:56.239 --> 01:00:58.280
<v Speaker 2>Let's see another one. Yeah, let's if you if you're

1165
01:00:58.280 --> 01:00:58.760
<v Speaker 2>cool with it.

1166
01:00:58.920 --> 01:01:01.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, let me just Unfortunately left them playing,

1167
01:01:01.719 --> 01:01:03.559
<v Speaker 1>so now it's like when I originally pulled them up,

1168
01:01:03.559 --> 01:01:05.199
<v Speaker 1>they're not even on the same video. So I gotta

1169
01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:07.400
<v Speaker 1>go and chat and pull it back up again, you know,

1170
01:01:07.519 --> 01:01:09.760
<v Speaker 1>like my YouTube will just start playing after another thing

1171
01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:12.440
<v Speaker 1>and they yeah, yeah, it's not that not on the

1172
01:01:12.480 --> 01:01:15.159
<v Speaker 1>same video, and US Cellular makes it easy to switch.

1173
01:01:15.480 --> 01:01:18.599
<v Speaker 1>All right, here we go. I want to switch it

1174
01:01:18.639 --> 01:01:23.719
<v Speaker 1>over now and then uh maybe after this we'll get

1175
01:01:23.719 --> 01:01:27.559
<v Speaker 1>into choke Ma a little bit more. Yeah, we might

1176
01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:30.599
<v Speaker 1>actually not be able to even get to all three spheres. Unfortunately,

1177
01:01:30.599 --> 01:01:31.519
<v Speaker 1>Sorry I started late.

1178
01:01:32.519 --> 01:01:35.480
<v Speaker 2>No, it's okay, Yeah, share this dad. Next time we'll

1179
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:36.559
<v Speaker 2>hit it hard with ben Off.

1180
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean totally honest with you people, like we

1181
01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:48.519
<v Speaker 1>could probably do one show per sphere, but it's just like,

1182
01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:50.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, who wants to do ten shows.

1183
01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:54.239
<v Speaker 2>I love doing long form series. I think it's great.

1184
01:01:54.320 --> 01:01:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh is Christ.

1185
01:02:00.039 --> 01:02:03.000
<v Speaker 2>So this is Sailor Uranus, and so I like this

1186
01:02:03.079 --> 01:02:06.559
<v Speaker 2>for Keather. You can see she's bringing the polarities in together,

1187
01:02:06.679 --> 01:02:11.320
<v Speaker 2>the fire of Gebra and the lightning of Jupiter. This

1188
01:02:11.440 --> 01:02:15.119
<v Speaker 2>is Sailor Neptune. She's doing the dreamlike ocean, so that's

1189
01:02:15.159 --> 01:02:19.199
<v Speaker 2>her attack is like music. It's kind of like a

1190
01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:22.400
<v Speaker 2>sleeping in the superno ocean, as I've often said. So

1191
01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:26.320
<v Speaker 2>I think that the both of the attacks actually makes sense.

1192
01:02:26.400 --> 01:02:29.159
<v Speaker 2>And it's also interesting because Sailor Uranus is a lesbian,

1193
01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:34.480
<v Speaker 2>so she is able to defy convention. She could say

1194
01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:36.679
<v Speaker 2>that she's postconceptual. It's kind of interesting.

1195
01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:39.440
<v Speaker 1>I do think that is interesting.

1196
01:02:42.039 --> 01:02:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Someone thought about it, is what I'm saying. It was

1197
01:02:44.000 --> 01:02:48.480
<v Speaker 2>a thoughtful, deliberate way to reconcile the paradox of not

1198
01:02:48.559 --> 01:02:52.039
<v Speaker 2>having a male character Philip, I think, and because I

1199
01:02:52.079 --> 01:02:54.639
<v Speaker 2>would assign that to be more of a masculine energy.

1200
01:02:54.920 --> 01:02:57.639
<v Speaker 2>Now obviously I said that can be both, but I

1201
01:02:58.239 --> 01:03:01.480
<v Speaker 2>do think that there is a be a more masculine energy,

1202
01:03:01.559 --> 01:03:06.000
<v Speaker 2>or a more unified kind of vision, not not hermaphrodite. Okay,

1203
01:03:06.679 --> 01:03:09.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying that. I'm just saying a more unified vision.

1204
01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:13.239
<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's Gott and his wife together, and so I

1205
01:03:13.280 --> 01:03:15.559
<v Speaker 2>think that that's a more interesting way. But I think

1206
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:17.920
<v Speaker 2>this is also a valid way because they thought through

1207
01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:20.039
<v Speaker 2>it and they were like, Okay, how do we reconcile

1208
01:03:20.079 --> 01:03:24.760
<v Speaker 2>this kind of paradox that arives as only one character,

1209
01:03:25.519 --> 01:03:30.760
<v Speaker 2>So then she also is in a she's dating Sailor Neptune,

1210
01:03:30.920 --> 01:03:33.840
<v Speaker 2>so Choke Mom, So it would give them an inherent

1211
01:03:34.119 --> 01:03:37.920
<v Speaker 2>sort of natural connection. And just like the sort of

1212
01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:41.800
<v Speaker 2>supernal triad. Well, Bena's really important for everyone else, but

1213
01:03:42.159 --> 01:03:45.960
<v Speaker 2>the other two are sort of ineffable in a little

1214
01:03:45.960 --> 01:03:48.360
<v Speaker 2>in a way, so they're kind of in and out

1215
01:03:48.400 --> 01:03:50.559
<v Speaker 2>of the show as well. So it's kind of interesting

1216
01:03:50.599 --> 01:03:52.559
<v Speaker 2>in that way that they kind of like appeer and

1217
01:03:52.599 --> 01:03:55.639
<v Speaker 2>not a peer. They're there and they're not there. Sometimes

1218
01:03:55.679 --> 01:03:58.719
<v Speaker 2>the other girls think about them and they don't really

1219
01:03:58.719 --> 01:04:00.880
<v Speaker 2>know what to make of it. Some of them are

1220
01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:03.679
<v Speaker 2>partially attracted to them, some of them are kind of

1221
01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:07.800
<v Speaker 2>repulsed in a way. And I think that also is

1222
01:04:07.840 --> 01:04:10.280
<v Speaker 2>like a coupleistic choices, like the plus and the ultra,

1223
01:04:10.440 --> 01:04:13.639
<v Speaker 2>Like are they magnetizing them in or magnetizing them away?

1224
01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Hm? I like that with the magnetism nice, Uh, you

1225
01:04:22.760 --> 01:04:25.320
<v Speaker 1>want to go over to Choked now, I guess.

1226
01:04:25.360 --> 01:04:28.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's see Chokemom, since we just kind of hit

1227
01:04:28.440 --> 01:04:29.159
<v Speaker 2>on it a little bit.

1228
01:04:29.320 --> 01:04:31.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, Well, I mean even with the Supernal try

1229
01:04:31.840 --> 01:04:33.360
<v Speaker 1>it it's kind of like hard to talk about one

1230
01:04:33.400 --> 01:04:35.840
<v Speaker 1>with a kind of incorporating the other ones.

1231
01:04:36.440 --> 01:04:38.519
<v Speaker 2>That's what I think they're interesting, is that they're dating.

1232
01:04:38.800 --> 01:04:41.760
<v Speaker 2>So you would have Keather and Homa in like a

1233
01:04:41.840 --> 01:04:49.159
<v Speaker 2>you know, perpetual sort of duality, almost right exactly, And

1234
01:04:49.239 --> 01:04:54.280
<v Speaker 2>so Homah is really interesting. It's gray, it can be turquoise,

1235
01:04:54.360 --> 01:04:56.880
<v Speaker 2>it can be white. Is a perfectly fine way to

1236
01:04:56.880 --> 01:04:58.880
<v Speaker 2>think about it. But that's at the higher levels. But

1237
01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:01.400
<v Speaker 2>you could also say, I was talking about this with

1238
01:05:01.519 --> 01:05:03.800
<v Speaker 2>someone today is like it can also be if you

1239
01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:07.280
<v Speaker 2>look at Mother Teresa. That would be a really good

1240
01:05:07.360 --> 01:05:09.960
<v Speaker 2>way to understand Hokemon because it is like a widow.

1241
01:05:10.039 --> 01:05:12.079
<v Speaker 2>This is a very contric kind of archetype, but it's

1242
01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:15.519
<v Speaker 2>someone who's kind of outside of society, outside of convention,

1243
01:05:16.119 --> 01:05:19.039
<v Speaker 2>but they have a role. You could say they're sort

1244
01:05:19.039 --> 01:05:24.960
<v Speaker 2>of like a vessel for greater wisdom, hopefully like transcendental wisdom.

1245
01:05:25.039 --> 01:05:26.880
<v Speaker 2>You could say, like Mother Teresa's whole thing was like

1246
01:05:26.960 --> 01:05:30.000
<v Speaker 2>to take suffering and to sort of like make grace

1247
01:05:30.119 --> 01:05:34.440
<v Speaker 2>out of it. Now, in the tontric way to understand

1248
01:05:34.559 --> 01:05:37.360
<v Speaker 2>the sephra, I would say that this produces a lot

1249
01:05:37.360 --> 01:05:40.320
<v Speaker 2>of confusion for people. It tends to be very outside. Oh,

1250
01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:43.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm outside the flesh, so I am truly the beast,

1251
01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:47.920
<v Speaker 2>but you're not. You're not quite outside of form. So

1252
01:05:48.639 --> 01:05:51.000
<v Speaker 2>if you get stuck there, you're still getting stuck in

1253
01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:55.920
<v Speaker 2>a particular kind of ego. But it is considered to

1254
01:05:55.960 --> 01:06:01.000
<v Speaker 2>be the ineffable expression of wisdom. So more European systems

1255
01:06:01.239 --> 01:06:05.159
<v Speaker 2>like would prefer a masculine sort of expression of that,

1256
01:06:05.199 --> 01:06:08.199
<v Speaker 2>so you often hear about that, but in uh Dharma

1257
01:06:08.239 --> 01:06:11.920
<v Speaker 2>and Eastern wisdom systems, they prefer wisdom is always a

1258
01:06:12.000 --> 01:06:16.400
<v Speaker 2>female always always. Wisdom is pretty much synonymous with like

1259
01:06:16.440 --> 01:06:19.599
<v Speaker 2>a feminine element. So I would say that there's both,

1260
01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:21.719
<v Speaker 2>or you could say the tontric way is that they're

1261
01:06:21.760 --> 01:06:24.719
<v Speaker 2>reconciled because she's a widow, so she she did have

1262
01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:27.199
<v Speaker 2>a husband, but he's you know, peace out.

1263
01:06:28.360 --> 01:06:33.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, uh, I had something I was gonna add, what's

1264
01:06:33.679 --> 01:06:34.320
<v Speaker 1>that one again?

1265
01:06:34.440 --> 01:06:34.519
<v Speaker 3>Too?

1266
01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:36.599
<v Speaker 1>Just what happens when I don't get stolen? I actually

1267
01:06:36.639 --> 01:06:41.519
<v Speaker 1>haven't a totally sober on the ship surprisingly right, that's

1268
01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:44.000
<v Speaker 1>that's because my vapor rises a broke I have to

1269
01:06:44.039 --> 01:06:45.599
<v Speaker 1>go get When after the show I realized that four

1270
01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:47.159
<v Speaker 1>thirty was broke, I was like, I can't leave. I

1271
01:06:47.199 --> 01:06:48.480
<v Speaker 1>was like, I can't leave, we'll be late and we

1272
01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:52.639
<v Speaker 1>saw it fucking five thirty anyway, Uh that was my

1273
01:06:52.719 --> 01:06:57.920
<v Speaker 1>fuff embullshit chokema. Uh oh, this is what I was

1274
01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:02.519
<v Speaker 1>thinking interesting about the ego because like even in Chokema,

1275
01:07:03.960 --> 01:07:06.320
<v Speaker 1>I yeah, I'll read, I'll read what I have and

1276
01:07:06.400 --> 01:07:10.559
<v Speaker 1>make maybe the level of uh, well, you know what,

1277
01:07:10.599 --> 01:07:13.079
<v Speaker 1>I probably lost what I was looking at with chokem.

1278
01:07:13.239 --> 01:07:16.119
<v Speaker 1>It's like almost like you kind of start to what

1279
01:07:16.239 --> 01:07:18.039
<v Speaker 1>I was reading and how I looked at it too.

1280
01:07:18.159 --> 01:07:24.559
<v Speaker 1>You almost start to indifferent yourself from uh, from the

1281
01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:27.400
<v Speaker 1>source again, Like I would even think that's maybe even

1282
01:07:27.400 --> 01:07:30.559
<v Speaker 1>because white Janus is there, like whatever or the experiences

1283
01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:34.039
<v Speaker 1>face to face with God is that it does say

1284
01:07:34.039 --> 01:07:36.920
<v Speaker 1>in Chokema from you know, multiple people's things, like that's

1285
01:07:36.920 --> 01:07:41.000
<v Speaker 1>when you start to like separate yourself from the experience,

1286
01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:43.920
<v Speaker 1>I guess, or separate yourself from the ol to make

1287
01:07:43.960 --> 01:07:47.320
<v Speaker 1>yourself different from everything else. And that I could see

1288
01:07:47.320 --> 01:07:51.199
<v Speaker 1>that being the ego. And like I've even mentioned in

1289
01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:54.199
<v Speaker 1>my experience whenever I've crossed the abyss, if that's what's

1290
01:07:54.239 --> 01:07:57.920
<v Speaker 1>really happening anytime I started thinking of myself, it ends

1291
01:07:58.360 --> 01:08:01.599
<v Speaker 1>when I start wondering where I am or what I

1292
01:08:01.639 --> 01:08:04.079
<v Speaker 1>am or where you know, what's going on. As soon

1293
01:08:04.079 --> 01:08:09.199
<v Speaker 1>as I really start thinking about I guess whatever, it's over.

1294
01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:11.920
<v Speaker 1>And I do think that's because I'm separating myself from

1295
01:08:11.920 --> 01:08:14.280
<v Speaker 1>the experience of though I'm not in it, I'm like

1296
01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:15.679
<v Speaker 1>trying to look at it from outside.

1297
01:08:17.159 --> 01:08:19.159
<v Speaker 2>I totally agree with you, Nick, And I also think

1298
01:08:19.279 --> 01:08:21.000
<v Speaker 2>the one thing I didn't say about color that I've

1299
01:08:21.000 --> 01:08:24.119
<v Speaker 2>talked about before that other people actually message me and

1300
01:08:24.479 --> 01:08:26.640
<v Speaker 2>we're like, I've never heard anyone say this before, but

1301
01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:28.479
<v Speaker 2>I think I've actually heard you say it before. But

1302
01:08:29.680 --> 01:08:34.960
<v Speaker 2>silver tinseling, this is something that I personally, I don't

1303
01:08:34.960 --> 01:08:38.439
<v Speaker 2>know if you want to experienced or just just associate

1304
01:08:38.520 --> 01:08:41.479
<v Speaker 2>maybe maybe in a deeper way with that sufferer. But

1305
01:08:41.560 --> 01:08:44.640
<v Speaker 2>I always thought of it as silver tinseling. So but

1306
01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:47.359
<v Speaker 2>I also agree that it can be understood and sort

1307
01:08:47.359 --> 01:08:50.560
<v Speaker 2>of the like Nick was talking about the diffusive expression

1308
01:08:50.600 --> 01:08:54.159
<v Speaker 2>of light through crystal, Well, if you go down to Hope, Ma,

1309
01:08:54.399 --> 01:08:57.760
<v Speaker 2>you're not in crystal anymore. You're in smoke or in flocks.

1310
01:08:58.199 --> 01:09:00.960
<v Speaker 2>So maybe you can say that you're like a humulus cloud,

1311
01:09:01.039 --> 01:09:04.039
<v Speaker 2>like almost pristine, pure white cloud as far as you

1312
01:09:04.119 --> 01:09:07.680
<v Speaker 2>can see, and then the cloud kind of pushes over

1313
01:09:07.720 --> 01:09:10.520
<v Speaker 2>the sun. It expresses outwards and there's kind of like

1314
01:09:10.560 --> 01:09:14.079
<v Speaker 2>a you know when when light passes through kind of

1315
01:09:14.119 --> 01:09:17.279
<v Speaker 2>the water vapor. It's not a rainbow, but it's there's

1316
01:09:17.279 --> 01:09:20.439
<v Speaker 2>something multivariate about it. And I think that that's also

1317
01:09:20.680 --> 01:09:23.039
<v Speaker 2>part of hope ma, and I think that's a good

1318
01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:27.399
<v Speaker 2>way to understand, like is it are we separating ourselves

1319
01:09:27.399 --> 01:09:30.600
<v Speaker 2>from the infinite sky? Because that's kind of the more

1320
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:35.880
<v Speaker 2>traditional Jewish kabal ideas, like are we separating ourselves from

1321
01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:38.159
<v Speaker 2>God's mercy or God's love or God's wisdom in this

1322
01:09:38.439 --> 01:09:42.479
<v Speaker 2>particular case, or are we like a willing recipient of it?

1323
01:09:43.079 --> 01:09:49.159
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's the question, man. Honestly, I think like for

1324
01:09:49.319 --> 01:09:51.760
<v Speaker 1>me myself too, that is a big thing that I

1325
01:09:51.800 --> 01:09:54.279
<v Speaker 1>have actually wondered about. When you're still looking at the tree,

1326
01:09:54.880 --> 01:09:57.119
<v Speaker 1>what is the reasoning from that separation? Is it by

1327
01:09:57.239 --> 01:10:00.600
<v Speaker 1>choice or by force? That is just a very I

1328
01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:02.119
<v Speaker 1>don't know. It's like I wish I could go back

1329
01:10:02.119 --> 01:10:04.159
<v Speaker 1>to when this originally happened and see, like you know,

1330
01:10:05.079 --> 01:10:06.560
<v Speaker 1>because it's like, dude, if I was giving the choice,

1331
01:10:06.560 --> 01:10:10.479
<v Speaker 1>where the fuck SAYU stay where you are, it's much

1332
01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:14.359
<v Speaker 1>more nice about there well, or it is like I'm

1333
01:10:14.359 --> 01:10:16.680
<v Speaker 1>gonna go somewhere shitty to remember how good I got

1334
01:10:16.720 --> 01:10:19.479
<v Speaker 1>it now, Like that is that what's going on? Because

1335
01:10:19.520 --> 01:10:23.159
<v Speaker 1>I got the joke, I can go home now I'm good.

1336
01:10:23.720 --> 01:10:23.960
<v Speaker 3>Well.

1337
01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:26.000
<v Speaker 2>I think that is an interesting way to think of

1338
01:10:26.039 --> 01:10:28.399
<v Speaker 2>the tree in general. It's like, do you you don't

1339
01:10:28.399 --> 01:10:30.720
<v Speaker 2>want to end up on either polarity. You don't want

1340
01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:33.720
<v Speaker 2>to end up on the extremities of the tree. You

1341
01:10:33.760 --> 01:10:36.359
<v Speaker 2>want to end up in synthesis and also well, I

1342
01:10:36.359 --> 01:10:38.880
<v Speaker 2>would say you'd also end up in rectification both because

1343
01:10:38.880 --> 01:10:41.439
<v Speaker 2>obviously Buddhism plus is a great emphasis on that, but

1344
01:10:41.479 --> 01:10:45.640
<v Speaker 2>not everybody does. But you could say that, okay, Uh.

1345
01:10:45.880 --> 01:10:49.520
<v Speaker 2>The example I always give of Rosicrucianism, Rosicutinism and Falsism,

1346
01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:53.680
<v Speaker 2>like they have a very tipherretic They always focus on

1347
01:10:53.720 --> 01:10:56.000
<v Speaker 2>the heart and the and the you know, the the

1348
01:10:56.000 --> 01:10:59.720
<v Speaker 2>sacred heart with the crown and it's flaming and it's golden,

1349
01:10:59.760 --> 01:11:02.560
<v Speaker 2>and keeps pointing to it. So he's like, prepare your heart,

1350
01:11:02.760 --> 01:11:06.039
<v Speaker 2>like with these tipperatic qualities, to prepare consciousness to go

1351
01:11:06.359 --> 01:11:09.439
<v Speaker 2>high or receive the Holy Spirit or whatever. So I

1352
01:11:09.479 --> 01:11:13.520
<v Speaker 2>think it's like the there's a duality in that. I

1353
01:11:13.560 --> 01:11:16.640
<v Speaker 2>think that it's like people get lost in because like

1354
01:11:17.079 --> 01:11:20.920
<v Speaker 2>the experience is nothing like really how we speak about

1355
01:11:20.920 --> 01:11:23.760
<v Speaker 2>it in a way. It's like we're talking about it

1356
01:11:23.800 --> 01:11:26.079
<v Speaker 2>like this is one part of it, one part of it,

1357
01:11:26.159 --> 01:11:29.079
<v Speaker 2>one part of it. But it's for me anyway, it

1358
01:11:29.119 --> 01:11:33.399
<v Speaker 2>was a lot more. I don't know. It's like not

1359
01:11:33.560 --> 01:11:38.199
<v Speaker 2>so chronological. It was like the different experiences happen in

1360
01:11:38.279 --> 01:11:43.199
<v Speaker 2>different places. So I just think that people get confused.

1361
01:11:43.439 --> 01:11:45.640
<v Speaker 2>And that's part of what Nick's talking about, is like

1362
01:11:45.720 --> 01:11:49.000
<v Speaker 2>this separation from source, like looking at yourself as a

1363
01:11:49.159 --> 01:11:53.560
<v Speaker 2>separate being or already embodying that high quality of source,

1364
01:11:53.600 --> 01:11:56.399
<v Speaker 2>but you're actually in the lower world, so you can't

1365
01:11:56.439 --> 01:11:59.439
<v Speaker 2>possibly be ineffable. That's one idea.

1366
01:11:59.479 --> 01:12:03.640
<v Speaker 1>One idea I like to you know, and not to

1367
01:12:03.680 --> 01:12:06.000
<v Speaker 1>get into the weird weird stuff here, but like even

1368
01:12:06.039 --> 01:12:08.439
<v Speaker 1>with Chokma, uh yeah, I'm gonna get into the you know,

1369
01:12:08.439 --> 01:12:10.880
<v Speaker 1>eyeball and brain shit, the whole gray thing. I've even

1370
01:12:10.880 --> 01:12:14.119
<v Speaker 1>wondered if that has anything to do with gray matter, uh,

1371
01:12:14.720 --> 01:12:18.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, in the brain, and like the orphanym is associated.

1372
01:12:18.159 --> 01:12:19.800
<v Speaker 1>This is why I was gonna get into the orphanym

1373
01:12:19.840 --> 01:12:25.960
<v Speaker 1>is associated with with chokma, and I have often often

1374
01:12:26.000 --> 01:12:29.439
<v Speaker 1>thought the orphanym uh might actually be your optic nerve,

1375
01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:32.319
<v Speaker 1>because when you cut open the optic nerve and start

1376
01:12:32.359 --> 01:12:35.079
<v Speaker 1>looking at it diagonally, it does kind of like it

1377
01:12:35.119 --> 01:12:37.960
<v Speaker 1>almost looks like a pizza or even like the wheel

1378
01:12:37.960 --> 01:12:41.359
<v Speaker 1>of fortune and uh I you know again with the

1379
01:12:41.399 --> 01:12:44.800
<v Speaker 1>wheels and just something circular. And it has to do

1380
01:12:44.880 --> 01:12:48.680
<v Speaker 1>with sight. The orphanim's got eyes all over it. I

1381
01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:50.680
<v Speaker 1>just have wondered about that, and it's just you know,

1382
01:12:50.760 --> 01:12:53.119
<v Speaker 1>at that point, is that like if you want to

1383
01:12:53.119 --> 01:12:55.319
<v Speaker 1>start seeing what's going on with your brain and your eye.

1384
01:12:55.960 --> 01:12:59.399
<v Speaker 1>I guess at that point, like electricity or you know, light,

1385
01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:02.680
<v Speaker 1>depending on which way you're seeing it, you know, go

1386
01:13:02.840 --> 01:13:05.399
<v Speaker 1>on in your your brain if you're looking at it,

1387
01:13:05.399 --> 01:13:07.159
<v Speaker 1>I guess from like your brain out to your eyes

1388
01:13:07.239 --> 01:13:09.960
<v Speaker 1>or from your eyes into your brain, you will see

1389
01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:12.840
<v Speaker 1>I guess, like electricity or a light that then is

1390
01:13:12.880 --> 01:13:16.279
<v Speaker 1>starting to be pushed into the optic nerve and actually

1391
01:13:16.359 --> 01:13:19.920
<v Speaker 1>being condensed and like kind of like being separate from everything.

1392
01:13:19.960 --> 01:13:22.760
<v Speaker 1>That was just that's a little bit much. But I

1393
01:13:23.039 --> 01:13:24.680
<v Speaker 1>have wondered, like if you want to start getting into

1394
01:13:24.680 --> 01:13:26.840
<v Speaker 1>the physiology part of it, which again, I think just

1395
01:13:26.880 --> 01:13:29.039
<v Speaker 1>like the trivium or you know whatever, like we were

1396
01:13:29.079 --> 01:13:31.159
<v Speaker 1>saying before, how there's like so many different layers to

1397
01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:33.800
<v Speaker 1>ocult symbolism. I just think this is one of the parts.

1398
01:13:34.399 --> 01:13:38.399
<v Speaker 2>And I do think the biology part is undeniable, undeniable

1399
01:13:38.520 --> 01:13:38.840
<v Speaker 2>part of it.

1400
01:13:39.119 --> 01:13:40.359
<v Speaker 1>Even the whole thing with the colors, like I was

1401
01:13:40.399 --> 01:13:42.680
<v Speaker 1>saying before, I even think the whole idea of light

1402
01:13:42.760 --> 01:13:46.079
<v Speaker 1>reflection and frequencies and all that shit is all in

1403
01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:46.640
<v Speaker 1>the tree.

1404
01:13:49.159 --> 01:13:52.319
<v Speaker 2>Well it's interesting you say that, Nick, because obviously a

1405
01:13:52.359 --> 01:13:55.399
<v Speaker 2>lot of the medieval callist, which is some of many

1406
01:13:55.439 --> 01:13:59.439
<v Speaker 2>of whom you've covered, they have like mapped the tree

1407
01:13:59.560 --> 01:14:03.000
<v Speaker 2>onto the atom cadvon onto sort of the or the

1408
01:14:03.079 --> 01:14:07.079
<v Speaker 2>Christ figure or whomever they you know, Nacho or the

1409
01:14:07.239 --> 01:14:10.039
<v Speaker 2>Seth or the Shem or whomever they want to call it.

1410
01:14:10.199 --> 01:14:12.439
<v Speaker 2>They have mapped on the tree to the thing. So

1411
01:14:12.520 --> 01:14:14.960
<v Speaker 2>you can look at it through a level of correspondences,

1412
01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:18.640
<v Speaker 2>like we have talked about doctrine or signatures related to plants.

1413
01:14:18.680 --> 01:14:22.439
<v Speaker 2>But that's just a very minute example, like a very

1414
01:14:22.479 --> 01:14:26.479
<v Speaker 2>minute way to discuss the same things like the same

1415
01:14:26.760 --> 01:14:30.800
<v Speaker 2>there's planetary implications, planetary relationships with the organs. Then we

1416
01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:34.359
<v Speaker 2>can say they're okay, they are a suffaratic also implications

1417
01:14:34.439 --> 01:14:37.960
<v Speaker 2>or relationships. So I think it's all like exactly what

1418
01:14:38.000 --> 01:14:40.199
<v Speaker 2>you're saying. I think that the biology layer is a

1419
01:14:40.239 --> 01:14:43.159
<v Speaker 2>really interesting layer because I I when you were saying

1420
01:14:43.199 --> 01:14:46.279
<v Speaker 2>that the sort of electricity or the lightning around the

1421
01:14:46.319 --> 01:14:50.119
<v Speaker 2>gray matter, there's something there, I think for me, yeah, because.

1422
01:14:49.880 --> 01:14:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Like you're getting to your pineal gland and like the

1423
01:14:51.880 --> 01:14:53.800
<v Speaker 1>electricity going up and out of your eyes and over

1424
01:14:53.840 --> 01:14:55.600
<v Speaker 1>there like you I don't know if you want to

1425
01:14:55.600 --> 01:14:57.399
<v Speaker 1>stell looking at things and like what's actually going on?

1426
01:14:57.399 --> 01:14:59.800
<v Speaker 1>In my opinion, you can see it in extent.

1427
01:14:59.600 --> 01:15:03.520
<v Speaker 2>Well described as smoky and gray in tontra. So what

1428
01:15:03.680 --> 01:15:06.680
<v Speaker 2>produces smoke flux like has to be burning, but it's

1429
01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:10.119
<v Speaker 2>not burning as in like it's not actively inflamed, but

1430
01:15:10.239 --> 01:15:14.079
<v Speaker 2>it's some kind of electrical process, right yeah.

1431
01:15:14.119 --> 01:15:15.760
<v Speaker 1>And then like so and then if you want to

1432
01:15:15.760 --> 01:15:18.479
<v Speaker 1>get into like you know, a getting the gray mat

1433
01:15:18.560 --> 01:15:21.760
<v Speaker 1>or whatever janis goes with that symbol of if you

1434
01:15:22.279 --> 01:15:24.159
<v Speaker 1>this is another reason why I look at it that way.

1435
01:15:24.880 --> 01:15:28.319
<v Speaker 1>At what point a brain is actually female and then

1436
01:15:28.439 --> 01:15:31.439
<v Speaker 1>the mail is interdicted into it and you will even

1437
01:15:31.479 --> 01:15:33.840
<v Speaker 1>see that I think you know, with the genus and genus.

1438
01:15:33.840 --> 01:15:36.159
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes it's not always a male and male and male,

1439
01:15:36.199 --> 01:15:38.000
<v Speaker 1>it's a male and female. And I do think that

1440
01:15:38.039 --> 01:15:42.079
<v Speaker 1>could even be showing you the whole brain and everything

1441
01:15:42.920 --> 01:15:43.520
<v Speaker 1>be informed.

1442
01:15:43.600 --> 01:15:47.680
<v Speaker 2>I agree with you. I think it's a dualistic. It's

1443
01:15:47.800 --> 01:15:50.600
<v Speaker 2>not the most dualistic suffer in the terms of like

1444
01:15:50.680 --> 01:15:52.840
<v Speaker 2>what is presented, like the klipa is like the sort

1445
01:15:52.880 --> 01:15:58.439
<v Speaker 2>of misunderstandings that the magician or the meditator or whomever

1446
01:15:58.520 --> 01:16:00.880
<v Speaker 2>it is, they're passing through the densities and then you'll

1447
01:16:00.880 --> 01:16:05.560
<v Speaker 2>get these different kinds of perceptions, feelings, understandings, but there's

1448
01:16:05.600 --> 01:16:08.039
<v Speaker 2>also misunderstandings that can happen, and so I think that

1449
01:16:08.119 --> 01:16:10.960
<v Speaker 2>this is one of those things. It's like a dualism,

1450
01:16:11.640 --> 01:16:15.840
<v Speaker 2>and so everything in that sufferer reinforces this idea of dualities,

1451
01:16:16.439 --> 01:16:20.119
<v Speaker 2>and it's it's hard maybe sufferer to reconcile as well.

1452
01:16:20.159 --> 01:16:22.399
<v Speaker 2>And I've heard other people talk about this, and maybe

1453
01:16:22.439 --> 01:16:26.039
<v Speaker 2>this is why it's such a fascination for like contemporary

1454
01:16:26.640 --> 01:16:30.720
<v Speaker 2>especially like left hand path ocultists, because it's they find

1455
01:16:30.720 --> 01:16:33.439
<v Speaker 2>it so impenetrable. But I think it's just you just

1456
01:16:33.479 --> 01:16:37.560
<v Speaker 2>have to say, this is just the subconscious layer and

1457
01:16:37.720 --> 01:16:41.199
<v Speaker 2>it's expressing itself in the fucked up ways that I

1458
01:16:41.239 --> 01:16:45.319
<v Speaker 2>think of the world, not necessarily how they are. And

1459
01:16:45.399 --> 01:16:48.199
<v Speaker 2>once you kind of can say that, you can kind

1460
01:16:48.199 --> 01:16:50.800
<v Speaker 2>of be like, Okay, it's not and not everything is

1461
01:16:50.840 --> 01:16:52.000
<v Speaker 2>how I imagine it to be.

1462
01:16:53.880 --> 01:17:02.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's not what I thought it was. You know what.

1463
01:17:02.359 --> 01:17:05.359
<v Speaker 1>I was thinking, Uh, we're not gonna wrap it up yet.

1464
01:17:05.359 --> 01:17:07.239
<v Speaker 1>I don't say we'll go like another ten minutes. If

1465
01:17:07.239 --> 01:17:11.000
<v Speaker 1>you don't mind, if we have to talk about Chalkbow more,

1466
01:17:11.079 --> 01:17:13.399
<v Speaker 1>we can next episode. But I was thinking, and this

1467
01:17:13.479 --> 01:17:15.560
<v Speaker 1>is because we totally honest with you, I'm coming on

1468
01:17:15.640 --> 01:17:21.920
<v Speaker 1>in a minute. When I first started getting into the Kabbala, Doth,

1469
01:17:22.199 --> 01:17:24.760
<v Speaker 1>from my opinion or from what I learned, was never

1470
01:17:24.800 --> 01:17:28.000
<v Speaker 1>really originally on the tree. So for me, I was

1471
01:17:28.039 --> 01:17:30.640
<v Speaker 1>just like, I'm just gonna stick with the ten. I

1472
01:17:30.680 --> 01:17:33.119
<v Speaker 1>have looked into it and obviously it's in books, but

1473
01:17:33.159 --> 01:17:37.359
<v Speaker 1>I've never paid it as much mine. I'm thinking, well, again,

1474
01:17:37.600 --> 01:17:39.439
<v Speaker 1>I haven't paid it as much attention as every other

1475
01:17:39.479 --> 01:17:41.920
<v Speaker 1>sphere put it that way, I'm thinking maybe, even though

1476
01:17:42.359 --> 01:17:44.279
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of out of the supernal tryad, maybe next

1477
01:17:44.319 --> 01:17:48.319
<v Speaker 1>episode we will actually cover Banah and Doth even though

1478
01:17:48.640 --> 01:17:50.399
<v Speaker 1>you know what I'm saying, to make up for two

1479
01:17:50.439 --> 01:17:53.000
<v Speaker 1>spheres in that episode instead of one, So maybe we

1480
01:17:53.000 --> 01:17:54.640
<v Speaker 1>could do that in the next show we'll cover Actually

1481
01:17:54.800 --> 01:17:55.319
<v Speaker 1>I agree.

1482
01:17:55.479 --> 01:17:57.920
<v Speaker 2>I agree, because really, if you want to think of it,

1483
01:17:57.960 --> 01:18:03.279
<v Speaker 2>like Bena draws sort of death into activity.

1484
01:18:02.640 --> 01:18:06.119
<v Speaker 1>You could say, well, again, like even Mike, the way

1485
01:18:06.119 --> 01:18:07.840
<v Speaker 1>I say, I think death is kind of understanding what

1486
01:18:07.840 --> 01:18:09.479
<v Speaker 1>the fuck just happened when you crossed over. It's all

1487
01:18:09.479 --> 01:18:11.279
<v Speaker 1>connected in a sense.

1488
01:18:12.520 --> 01:18:15.000
<v Speaker 2>It's the way to make it's the way to understand

1489
01:18:15.119 --> 01:18:18.920
<v Speaker 2>what happens when you cross to me, to relate to

1490
01:18:18.960 --> 01:18:24.239
<v Speaker 2>it right, to give context and contour definition. But you

1491
01:18:24.279 --> 01:18:26.319
<v Speaker 2>don't want to be at the whole like definition where

1492
01:18:26.359 --> 01:18:29.399
<v Speaker 2>you don't know the thing. Yeah, you don't fundamentally know

1493
01:18:29.479 --> 01:18:32.880
<v Speaker 2>what happened. You just started describing it like randomly with

1494
01:18:33.000 --> 01:18:36.079
<v Speaker 2>words that you may or may not fully understand. But

1495
01:18:36.119 --> 01:18:40.439
<v Speaker 2>then once you're doing the bana sort of delineation of events,

1496
01:18:40.760 --> 01:18:44.159
<v Speaker 2>you're kind of putting it into a grammatical structure and order,

1497
01:18:44.199 --> 01:18:46.800
<v Speaker 2>and you're being intentional in your will. So that's very

1498
01:18:46.840 --> 01:18:49.560
<v Speaker 2>also magical. So that's why, like I know, Nick likes

1499
01:18:49.560 --> 01:18:53.720
<v Speaker 2>the sehra, I like the sephra. Bana is really so important,

1500
01:18:53.720 --> 01:18:56.119
<v Speaker 2>but it also has a relationship with Doth. So I

1501
01:18:56.439 --> 01:18:59.600
<v Speaker 2>agree with you, Nick, but I agree it doesn't You're fine.

1502
01:18:59.640 --> 01:19:02.680
<v Speaker 2>People are fine with the ten. You're interested in Kenneth

1503
01:19:02.720 --> 01:19:05.560
<v Speaker 2>Grant and like, you know, playing around with Doth. Doth

1504
01:19:05.680 --> 01:19:08.520
<v Speaker 2>is all that I was there. So you're it's not

1505
01:19:08.680 --> 01:19:10.600
<v Speaker 2>going anywhere, is what I'm saying. So if you don't

1506
01:19:10.640 --> 01:19:14.560
<v Speaker 2>particularly focus on it, it's fine. You're gonna eventually come

1507
01:19:14.600 --> 01:19:15.800
<v Speaker 2>to that place hopefully.

1508
01:19:16.239 --> 01:19:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I was more interested actually in Doth again after

1509
01:19:18.880 --> 01:19:21.560
<v Speaker 1>I had my experience, because like I because I knew

1510
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:23.359
<v Speaker 1>that I was associated with Knowing, and I was like, well,

1511
01:19:23.399 --> 01:19:24.960
<v Speaker 1>I feel like this thing is I know now? And

1512
01:19:25.000 --> 01:19:27.600
<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh wait, So like it was something

1513
01:19:27.640 --> 01:19:32.520
<v Speaker 1>that spurred my you know, my attention more after the fact, unfortunately,

1514
01:19:32.560 --> 01:19:35.159
<v Speaker 1>but yeah, I figured maybe we could do that in

1515
01:19:35.159 --> 01:19:37.880
<v Speaker 1>the next episode of dub Nah and Doth, so you know,

1516
01:19:38.439 --> 01:19:41.800
<v Speaker 1>just keep it going. Another thing I wanted to say,

1517
01:19:41.840 --> 01:19:43.199
<v Speaker 1>not to get off of this, to get back a

1518
01:19:43.239 --> 01:19:46.760
<v Speaker 1>little bit, back to Chokmah again, like even when I

1519
01:19:46.760 --> 01:19:50.000
<v Speaker 1>brought up the Wheel of Fortune, there's no planet associated

1520
01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:53.079
<v Speaker 1>with Chokema, but the zodiac is. Again, it's just another

1521
01:19:53.119 --> 01:19:55.840
<v Speaker 1>whale with lines through it. Again, I was saying, if

1522
01:19:55.880 --> 01:19:59.079
<v Speaker 1>you if you cut the optic nerve down, like you know,

1523
01:19:59.159 --> 01:20:01.800
<v Speaker 1>like your slicing like a that's a salami stick. You

1524
01:20:01.920 --> 01:20:04.840
<v Speaker 1>gotta tell that way. It does look like it even

1525
01:20:04.920 --> 01:20:07.399
<v Speaker 1>has like the thick layer around. It's like, yo, that's

1526
01:20:07.439 --> 01:20:12.560
<v Speaker 1>the crust of a pizza like or like those flowers.

1527
01:20:13.119 --> 01:20:17.680
<v Speaker 1>It's a lot on that Golden Dorn deck. My opinion,

1528
01:20:17.760 --> 01:20:20.520
<v Speaker 1>there is tons and tons of optic nerve symbolism on there.

1529
01:20:20.520 --> 01:20:23.159
<v Speaker 1>It's like these circular things that almost kind of look

1530
01:20:23.239 --> 01:20:25.640
<v Speaker 1>like flowers, and they have this thick outer edge. I've

1531
01:20:25.680 --> 01:20:28.600
<v Speaker 1>shown it plenty of times on like an architecture like freemasonry,

1532
01:20:28.680 --> 01:20:32.039
<v Speaker 1>especially Catholic churches have that shit all over the place.

1533
01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:34.520
<v Speaker 1>I do think it might actually be the you know,

1534
01:20:34.560 --> 01:20:37.239
<v Speaker 1>the optic nerve. So again I'm just saying, you know,

1535
01:20:37.279 --> 01:20:41.000
<v Speaker 1>relating the whole zodiac. I wonder again with like wheale

1536
01:20:41.000 --> 01:20:43.399
<v Speaker 1>of fortune type symbolism, and I know wheal fortune would

1537
01:20:43.399 --> 01:20:46.479
<v Speaker 1>probably go around Chess said, but I mean, you know

1538
01:20:46.880 --> 01:20:49.600
<v Speaker 1>that's right above that it's chokemo you already.

1539
01:20:49.720 --> 01:20:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Well you can say that the hogman is the highest expression, right,

1540
01:20:52.960 --> 01:20:57.159
<v Speaker 2>So like there's obviously an innate relationship between Hasad and

1541
01:20:57.680 --> 01:21:03.399
<v Speaker 2>Hakmar right there. So maybe you say that all the

1542
01:21:03.439 --> 01:21:05.720
<v Speaker 2>things like a more Jewish way to understand it would

1543
01:21:05.720 --> 01:21:08.439
<v Speaker 2>be like you're bringing all those things that you've learned

1544
01:21:08.479 --> 01:21:11.199
<v Speaker 2>that are expressed in the world. So Jupiter is and

1545
01:21:11.399 --> 01:21:13.560
<v Speaker 2>has said, is there a lot of people not everybody,

1546
01:21:13.600 --> 01:21:15.680
<v Speaker 2>but a lot of people have this preference for that

1547
01:21:15.760 --> 01:21:19.000
<v Speaker 2>suffra because it's infinite in its expanse. Kind of you

1548
01:21:19.039 --> 01:21:22.319
<v Speaker 2>can double the four every time. That's kind of the idea.

1549
01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:26.239
<v Speaker 2>And so but once you get into Hokmah, you kind

1550
01:21:26.279 --> 01:21:31.720
<v Speaker 2>of are more. You're more centered, you're more you've lived

1551
01:21:31.760 --> 01:21:34.279
<v Speaker 2>your life. You've been like a master baster or a

1552
01:21:34.399 --> 01:21:37.840
<v Speaker 2>student or whatever for many decades, and so you've kind

1553
01:21:37.880 --> 01:21:42.079
<v Speaker 2>of come into this wi you're a wisened elder. So

1554
01:21:42.520 --> 01:21:45.319
<v Speaker 2>that's also like a good archetype sort of to understand

1555
01:21:45.359 --> 01:21:50.319
<v Speaker 2>it as well, and it gives you kind of I've

1556
01:21:50.319 --> 01:21:52.840
<v Speaker 2>always likened it to the Desert Fathers, so nix't talking

1557
01:21:52.840 --> 01:21:55.720
<v Speaker 2>about Catholicism, So like I think of that Hokmah is

1558
01:21:55.840 --> 01:21:57.880
<v Speaker 2>very like the Desert Fathers. It's like the guys in

1559
01:21:58.199 --> 01:22:02.359
<v Speaker 2>hemp Linen robes often gray, right, they're out in the

1560
01:22:02.399 --> 01:22:06.439
<v Speaker 2>desert and they're kind of meditating and having these sufferotic

1561
01:22:06.680 --> 01:22:09.960
<v Speaker 2>experiences and trying to make sense of it. And they're

1562
01:22:09.960 --> 01:22:14.239
<v Speaker 2>also they're not eating very much. It's like honey and

1563
01:22:14.279 --> 01:22:18.880
<v Speaker 2>locusts and like, you know whatever. And so it is

1564
01:22:18.920 --> 01:22:22.680
<v Speaker 2>like the ultimate asceticism in a way. And it's kind

1565
01:22:22.680 --> 01:22:27.079
<v Speaker 2>of like the ultimate You're you're seeking for duality, you're

1566
01:22:27.079 --> 01:22:30.760
<v Speaker 2>seeking for unity, but you're doing it in the most

1567
01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:35.000
<v Speaker 2>dualistic sort of separating yourself from your physical body. You're

1568
01:22:35.000 --> 01:22:37.039
<v Speaker 2>trying to like annihilate the self almost.

1569
01:22:37.439 --> 01:22:39.000
<v Speaker 1>You know what's really interesting. If we want to go

1570
01:22:39.079 --> 01:22:40.840
<v Speaker 1>back into this whole thing, I'm sorry to bring it

1571
01:22:40.880 --> 01:22:42.960
<v Speaker 1>back to the eyeballs again. No, that's okay. I like

1572
01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:45.279
<v Speaker 1>this when I think about CHOKMOI. You have one optic

1573
01:22:45.319 --> 01:22:48.239
<v Speaker 1>nerves but two eyes. I mean, you know what I'm saying,

1574
01:22:48.239 --> 01:22:49.920
<v Speaker 1>Like there's only one optic nerve in each eye, but

1575
01:22:49.960 --> 01:22:52.439
<v Speaker 1>you are kind of getting one but duality. You're one

1576
01:22:52.520 --> 01:22:54.479
<v Speaker 1>eye optic nerve is it's only one of them, but

1577
01:22:54.560 --> 01:22:56.640
<v Speaker 1>yet it's being done in two eyes. You know what

1578
01:22:56.680 --> 01:23:00.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm saying? That sound like weird're even it's if you

1579
01:23:00.680 --> 01:23:03.359
<v Speaker 1>look at what an optic nerve looks like it looks

1580
01:23:03.399 --> 01:23:06.680
<v Speaker 1>like a flascid hanging dick. I'm not trying to make

1581
01:23:06.800 --> 01:23:10.960
<v Speaker 1>up for perverted shit, but in my opinion, that is

1582
01:23:11.039 --> 01:23:14.279
<v Speaker 1>actually phallic symbolism. Is because actually I do think is

1583
01:23:14.279 --> 01:23:17.960
<v Speaker 1>possibly showing the optic nerve, and or it even looks

1584
01:23:18.000 --> 01:23:21.119
<v Speaker 1>like a light switch just hanging down. Now you want

1585
01:23:21.119 --> 01:23:24.079
<v Speaker 1>to flip that shit on, you know, tickle that skull

1586
01:23:24.119 --> 01:23:26.039
<v Speaker 1>at Hoyz fancy she's turned out all the time. You'll

1587
01:23:26.039 --> 01:23:26.920
<v Speaker 1>get what the fuck you want.

1588
01:23:27.279 --> 01:23:30.800
<v Speaker 2>That's right. So what you said is so interesting, Nick,

1589
01:23:30.880 --> 01:23:34.079
<v Speaker 2>because there is even a con trick like icon where Shiva,

1590
01:23:34.399 --> 01:23:36.439
<v Speaker 2>well it's not really Shiva, but it's by Rava and

1591
01:23:36.479 --> 01:23:40.279
<v Speaker 2>he has the he's nude like that, and he's it's

1592
01:23:40.319 --> 01:23:43.239
<v Speaker 2>not it's a fa like meaning it's not erect, and

1593
01:23:43.319 --> 01:23:46.039
<v Speaker 2>so it is just like the shape you described, and

1594
01:23:46.079 --> 01:23:49.960
<v Speaker 2>he's non generative, and that is also the equivalent of

1595
01:23:50.039 --> 01:23:53.640
<v Speaker 2>the form that you could map into Hookema. So I

1596
01:23:53.680 --> 01:23:56.119
<v Speaker 2>think it's really interesting that you say that it's kind

1597
01:23:56.119 --> 01:23:57.520
<v Speaker 2>of the non generative father.

1598
01:24:00.199 --> 01:24:05.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, even uh yo, Minerval, this does sound crazy, Minerval,

1599
01:24:05.359 --> 01:24:07.920
<v Speaker 1>I actually think when you're going through that initiation, you

1600
01:24:07.960 --> 01:24:10.119
<v Speaker 1>are actually kind of. I think it's showing you shit

1601
01:24:10.159 --> 01:24:14.279
<v Speaker 1>from the eyeball. That's just my opinion. And they even

1602
01:24:14.279 --> 01:24:17.520
<v Speaker 1>the god name is even on. I mean it sounds cheesy,

1603
01:24:17.520 --> 01:24:18.920
<v Speaker 1>but like I was saying before, you just got to

1604
01:24:18.920 --> 01:24:21.800
<v Speaker 1>flip that switch on. I mean, that's the god name.

1605
01:24:22.000 --> 01:24:24.760
<v Speaker 1>And I do think they're actually they're telling you that

1606
01:24:24.800 --> 01:24:27.159
<v Speaker 1>after they pump your thumb fucking twelve times and there's

1607
01:24:27.159 --> 01:24:29.279
<v Speaker 1>twelve cranial nerves and one of them's the optic nerve

1608
01:24:30.119 --> 01:24:32.279
<v Speaker 1>in front of a fucking tent that looks just like it.

1609
01:24:33.319 --> 01:24:35.479
<v Speaker 1>So it's just like, you know, I do think there's

1610
01:24:35.520 --> 01:24:38.960
<v Speaker 1>something to that. Yeah, And the whole thing I mean,

1611
01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:43.239
<v Speaker 1>taking it if you want to, yeah, if you want

1612
01:24:43.239 --> 01:24:46.880
<v Speaker 1>to look at the Gnostic mass and it can be taken,

1613
01:24:46.960 --> 01:24:50.199
<v Speaker 1>is that the priest is just trying to turn on

1614
01:24:50.399 --> 01:24:53.279
<v Speaker 1>or get the priestess off, but he's not using his dick.

1615
01:24:54.399 --> 01:24:56.840
<v Speaker 1>You know. You just thought to wonder, like, is there

1616
01:24:56.880 --> 01:25:00.560
<v Speaker 1>actually symbolism behind some of this sexual stuff, because if,

1617
01:25:01.359 --> 01:25:02.960
<v Speaker 1>in my opinion, one of the best ways to hide

1618
01:25:02.960 --> 01:25:05.359
<v Speaker 1>shit is make it sexual and make it look satanic.

1619
01:25:06.399 --> 01:25:09.800
<v Speaker 2>Well that's the preferred every every magician in there, like

1620
01:25:09.880 --> 01:25:15.039
<v Speaker 2>the last sixty seventy maybe eighty years has preferred this.

1621
01:25:15.800 --> 01:25:18.720
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes not everybody, but a lot of people have preferred

1622
01:25:18.720 --> 01:25:22.439
<v Speaker 2>this tactic. It's to hide like real knowledge under the

1623
01:25:22.640 --> 01:25:27.239
<v Speaker 2>like the superficial density of maybe you can say perversion,

1624
01:25:27.439 --> 01:25:29.800
<v Speaker 2>inversion or whatever you want to call it, like a

1625
01:25:29.840 --> 01:25:33.520
<v Speaker 2>true kleep up, like a true misunderstanding of what the

1626
01:25:33.600 --> 01:25:36.720
<v Speaker 2>actual knowledge is. It's a way to hide it and

1627
01:25:36.840 --> 01:25:39.319
<v Speaker 2>obscure it. Which is interesting because that is also the

1628
01:25:40.119 --> 01:25:43.159
<v Speaker 2>kleepa of Saturn. People love that, like the you know

1629
01:25:43.199 --> 01:25:46.760
<v Speaker 2>Saturn moon matrix, like the oh the you know, black

1630
01:25:46.800 --> 01:25:51.520
<v Speaker 2>Cubas Saturn stuff. Well, but interestingly, to occult something is

1631
01:25:52.199 --> 01:25:54.560
<v Speaker 2>the kleepup of Saturn. Actually, Saturn is to come into

1632
01:25:54.640 --> 01:25:57.319
<v Speaker 2>understanding or been a is the proper way is to

1633
01:25:57.359 --> 01:26:02.119
<v Speaker 2>come into understanding rather than things before people. However, that

1634
01:26:02.159 --> 01:26:04.880
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean that you get to reveal all secrets, of course,

1635
01:26:05.039 --> 01:26:08.439
<v Speaker 2>but I think that's about what Hokma is. It's a

1636
01:26:08.479 --> 01:26:11.079
<v Speaker 2>little trickstere like. That's how they would kind of look

1637
01:26:11.119 --> 01:26:14.520
<v Speaker 2>at it. In contra is the or even in the

1638
01:26:14.600 --> 01:26:16.720
<v Speaker 2>normy kind of Hinduism, they would say it's like the

1639
01:26:16.720 --> 01:26:19.960
<v Speaker 2>sleeping God, the supernal God. He exists on the world ocean.

1640
01:26:20.359 --> 01:26:22.800
<v Speaker 2>He's dreaming of his life in the real world. But

1641
01:26:22.840 --> 01:26:26.039
<v Speaker 2>he's not really God God, He's he's dreaming. So his

1642
01:26:26.520 --> 01:26:28.279
<v Speaker 2>sort of soul, if you want to call it, that

1643
01:26:28.399 --> 01:26:33.000
<v Speaker 2>takes birth into the world of form, and so he

1644
01:26:33.039 --> 01:26:36.640
<v Speaker 2>doesn't want that to end. He loves the dream, he

1645
01:26:36.720 --> 01:26:41.439
<v Speaker 2>loves the leela, and so he hates nothing else. He

1646
01:26:41.560 --> 01:26:45.359
<v Speaker 2>hates nothing else than to be sort of either you

1647
01:26:45.359 --> 01:26:49.359
<v Speaker 2>could say killed quote unquote or sort of awakened.

1648
01:26:53.600 --> 01:26:56.199
<v Speaker 1>Oh and real quick, because I didn't want to forget

1649
01:26:56.199 --> 01:26:57.840
<v Speaker 1>this and I was paying attention to what you're saying.

1650
01:26:57.880 --> 01:26:59.159
<v Speaker 1>I just want to throw this in because I was

1651
01:26:59.159 --> 01:27:00.600
<v Speaker 1>thinking about it and I was like, I forgot to

1652
01:27:00.640 --> 01:27:05.119
<v Speaker 1>say this prior. Ganus is associated with pillars correctly. Correctly,

1653
01:27:05.159 --> 01:27:07.199
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I think you've heard that yourself through with

1654
01:27:07.279 --> 01:27:09.680
<v Speaker 1>the two pillars of the things that have designed.

1655
01:27:09.680 --> 01:27:13.640
<v Speaker 2>That is what that is what other researchers have asserted.

1656
01:27:13.680 --> 01:27:16.039
<v Speaker 2>So I have to say that as far as I

1657
01:27:16.079 --> 01:27:17.039
<v Speaker 2>know that is true.

1658
01:27:17.600 --> 01:27:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Again, if I'm going on about these optic nerves,

1659
01:27:20.560 --> 01:27:24.199
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's again, it's you know, to fucking it

1660
01:27:24.239 --> 01:27:26.359
<v Speaker 1>looks like it looks like a one hanging in a

1661
01:27:26.479 --> 01:27:29.239
<v Speaker 1>zero in your ryeball you got two of them, you

1662
01:27:29.239 --> 01:27:31.000
<v Speaker 1>get it looks like pillars to me too. If you

1663
01:27:31.039 --> 01:27:34.039
<v Speaker 1>want to looking at it like that, I mean, maybe

1664
01:27:34.279 --> 01:27:35.720
<v Speaker 1>I'll maybe grabbing for shit here.

1665
01:27:35.760 --> 01:27:38.720
<v Speaker 2>But you know, I don't think you are at all.

1666
01:27:38.760 --> 01:27:40.760
<v Speaker 2>I think it makes complete sense. I mean, even the

1667
01:27:40.760 --> 01:27:43.479
<v Speaker 2>odin Mythos, it's like he's missing an eye, you know.

1668
01:27:43.520 --> 01:27:46.279
<v Speaker 1>And he's associated with fucking lightning, Isn't he Isn't he

1669
01:27:46.279 --> 01:27:47.520
<v Speaker 1>associated with light sometimes?

1670
01:27:47.600 --> 01:27:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes so some people say that he is, and some

1671
01:27:50.039 --> 01:27:53.319
<v Speaker 2>people say he isn't. Obviously I am this isn't well

1672
01:27:53.359 --> 01:27:57.600
<v Speaker 2>beyond my area of expertise. But certainly there is an

1673
01:27:58.520 --> 01:28:01.359
<v Speaker 2>association of him with this. Obviously we said this of

1674
01:28:01.399 --> 01:28:05.079
<v Speaker 2>the Sepher. But then also he does correlate in a

1675
01:28:05.159 --> 01:28:07.800
<v Speaker 2>lot of ways, like he wears a gray robe. He

1676
01:28:09.119 --> 01:28:12.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's an ascetic like a desert father almost

1677
01:28:12.520 --> 01:28:16.880
<v Speaker 2>except maybe like the Hyperborean Northern version of a desert father.

1678
01:28:17.000 --> 01:28:22.720
<v Speaker 2>And he's non generative, so you know, it fits a

1679
01:28:22.720 --> 01:28:26.359
<v Speaker 2>lot of these sort of just archetypically, like what Nick

1680
01:28:26.479 --> 01:28:29.119
<v Speaker 2>was saying before, like magic is really about archetypes. It's

1681
01:28:29.159 --> 01:28:31.520
<v Speaker 2>not about people get lost on like the god names

1682
01:28:31.520 --> 01:28:34.880
<v Speaker 2>and they're like, oh, I must do this alter to

1683
01:28:34.960 --> 01:28:39.000
<v Speaker 2>this goetic or this deity or this thing. But really

1684
01:28:39.079 --> 01:28:42.520
<v Speaker 2>those are just archetypal sort of layers or vessels that

1685
01:28:43.279 --> 01:28:46.439
<v Speaker 2>contain deeper ideas, just like the sex stuff and so

1686
01:28:47.319 --> 01:28:50.319
<v Speaker 2>or the satanic stuff like that's also like a perfectly

1687
01:28:50.479 --> 01:28:54.960
<v Speaker 2>synonymous way, like sexual and satanic. Like ye, it's like

1688
01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:58.079
<v Speaker 2>a perfect way to say it. Yeah, people do dumb

1689
01:28:58.079 --> 01:29:01.479
<v Speaker 2>shit because they they want to trip up other people.

1690
01:29:01.960 --> 01:29:04.760
<v Speaker 2>That's a real thing, and then also they want to

1691
01:29:05.039 --> 01:29:10.199
<v Speaker 2>sort of guard it against people actually accessing what is

1692
01:29:10.319 --> 01:29:13.960
<v Speaker 2>deeper knowledge. So dumb people would see the sort of

1693
01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:16.680
<v Speaker 2>external presentation and be like, this is what I have

1694
01:29:16.760 --> 01:29:20.359
<v Speaker 2>to do. And I agree that sometimes the magical or

1695
01:29:20.359 --> 01:29:24.520
<v Speaker 2>sepharodic experiences can be very confusing, not necessarily confusing in

1696
01:29:24.560 --> 01:29:27.760
<v Speaker 2>like a dark way or a bad way, but sometimes

1697
01:29:27.800 --> 01:29:30.880
<v Speaker 2>we don't know is like fully understand the things that

1698
01:29:30.920 --> 01:29:35.159
<v Speaker 2>we see. And so I understand why people start to

1699
01:29:35.239 --> 01:29:39.960
<v Speaker 2>obsess about like clipolithic things or darkness or the carnal

1700
01:29:40.000 --> 01:29:42.640
<v Speaker 2>ground or the as we did nick the series with

1701
01:29:43.199 --> 01:29:48.119
<v Speaker 2>the ICP guys. Yea, you know they have the dark

1702
01:29:48.159 --> 01:29:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Carnival and it's like all the it's a bit it's

1703
01:29:51.000 --> 01:29:54.560
<v Speaker 2>like hyper focused on the dumisms denizens excuse me of

1704
01:29:54.600 --> 01:29:57.920
<v Speaker 2>the carnoground. There's no kind of luminosity at the end,

1705
01:29:58.319 --> 01:30:00.800
<v Speaker 2>and so sometimes people get stuck in that kind of

1706
01:30:00.880 --> 01:30:04.520
<v Speaker 2>like you could say, like the actual density, like the

1707
01:30:04.600 --> 01:30:07.840
<v Speaker 2>actual like I feel like this is what something is

1708
01:30:07.960 --> 01:30:10.800
<v Speaker 2>instead of being you don't have to be a hermeticist.

1709
01:30:10.880 --> 01:30:12.760
<v Speaker 2>But it's a maybe an interesting way to think of

1710
01:30:12.760 --> 01:30:16.159
<v Speaker 2>it as like you want to travel like the word

1711
01:30:16.319 --> 01:30:17.359
<v Speaker 2>rather than stay.

1712
01:30:17.159 --> 01:30:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Fixed and one idea. Yeah, yeah, I agree with that,

1713
01:30:23.119 --> 01:30:28.199
<v Speaker 1>but uh, and you know, you know, it's fun. I

1714
01:30:28.239 --> 01:30:31.880
<v Speaker 1>don't even know how to say this. There's plenty of

1715
01:30:31.880 --> 01:30:37.760
<v Speaker 1>people that if it wasn't for this misunderstanding, they wouldn't

1716
01:30:37.760 --> 01:30:41.199
<v Speaker 1>have a podcast just to keep it totally real.

1717
01:30:41.920 --> 01:30:44.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's why I brought it up, Nick, because it's

1718
01:30:44.640 --> 01:30:46.880
<v Speaker 2>something you and I have discussed. It's like not a

1719
01:30:46.960 --> 01:30:51.000
<v Speaker 2>secret that there are people that would rather obscure use

1720
01:30:51.079 --> 01:30:55.600
<v Speaker 2>the klipa of Benna and probably knowingly, to be honest

1721
01:30:55.640 --> 01:30:58.439
<v Speaker 2>with you, I think, at least I think so it.

1722
01:30:58.560 --> 01:31:00.840
<v Speaker 1>Was a nobody will of this, and I'm sure that

1723
01:31:00.840 --> 01:31:02.720
<v Speaker 1>the ten people that sort probably have no idea what

1724
01:31:02.720 --> 01:31:04.119
<v Speaker 1>the fuck I'm talking about because it's so old. But

1725
01:31:04.119 --> 01:31:05.560
<v Speaker 1>there was like a time I'm not gonna mention names

1726
01:31:05.560 --> 01:31:08.439
<v Speaker 1>where somebody was getting harassed by not harassed, but they

1727
01:31:08.479 --> 01:31:12.199
<v Speaker 1>were culled this we're kind of like shit talken somebody

1728
01:31:12.199 --> 01:31:14.600
<v Speaker 1>that I know in the community, and one of them

1729
01:31:14.640 --> 01:31:18.479
<v Speaker 1>had like literally said to him like, if it wasn't

1730
01:31:18.479 --> 01:31:21.439
<v Speaker 1>for like horrible, fucked up shit, you would have nothing

1731
01:31:21.479 --> 01:31:25.960
<v Speaker 1>to pedal your listeners, Like you actually pimp like horrible

1732
01:31:26.399 --> 01:31:30.399
<v Speaker 1>shit that you sell to your listeners. And I didn't

1733
01:31:30.399 --> 01:31:32.399
<v Speaker 1>really I really didn't get it then because I was

1734
01:31:32.439 --> 01:31:34.199
<v Speaker 1>just like, oh, fuck that guy, because I really don't

1735
01:31:34.239 --> 01:31:36.119
<v Speaker 1>like him because I think he pushes like fake UFO

1736
01:31:36.199 --> 01:31:39.760
<v Speaker 1>alien shit. But like I said, like I guess from

1737
01:31:39.800 --> 01:31:43.199
<v Speaker 1>going through my own growing pains and wanting to change,

1738
01:31:43.680 --> 01:31:45.359
<v Speaker 1>we wanted to put the show or just in a

1739
01:31:45.399 --> 01:31:51.920
<v Speaker 1>MORETZ direction set direction. I started realizing, like not so

1740
01:31:52.039 --> 01:31:54.079
<v Speaker 1>much myself, but other people. I was like, you know,

1741
01:31:54.199 --> 01:31:57.960
<v Speaker 1>it was like the total misunderstanding of a lot of

1742
01:31:57.960 --> 01:32:01.039
<v Speaker 1>this shit is the only thing you have to offer,

1743
01:32:01.479 --> 01:32:06.000
<v Speaker 1>and all you're doing is like selling hate, fear and

1744
01:32:06.079 --> 01:32:07.920
<v Speaker 1>putting sick images into people's minds.

1745
01:32:10.079 --> 01:32:13.720
<v Speaker 2>So there's something really sicko about what you're saying. Actually

1746
01:32:13.800 --> 01:32:17.239
<v Speaker 2>is like if people pedal to sell like they're actually

1747
01:32:17.239 --> 01:32:21.279
<v Speaker 2>commodifying the sick images and then they're associating it with

1748
01:32:21.399 --> 01:32:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Magic's really about as you know, Nick, I'm not saying

1749
01:32:24.000 --> 01:32:28.840
<v Speaker 2>anything to you. It's really for the episode. It's it's

1750
01:32:28.840 --> 01:32:31.319
<v Speaker 2>about liberating your consciousness, is the best way I can

1751
01:32:31.439 --> 01:32:34.760
<v Speaker 2>describe its. People who try and limit you and like

1752
01:32:34.800 --> 01:32:38.159
<v Speaker 2>you're a deeper understanding, so your deeper inquiry into wisdom science,

1753
01:32:38.159 --> 01:32:42.479
<v Speaker 2>Like wisdom science exists, so we can reference it and

1754
01:32:42.560 --> 01:32:44.960
<v Speaker 2>so we can utilize it if we, you know, if

1755
01:32:45.000 --> 01:32:48.239
<v Speaker 2>we make that decision for ourselves. It's not someone shouldn't

1756
01:32:48.279 --> 01:32:51.159
<v Speaker 2>color your opinion of it just because there have been

1757
01:32:51.239 --> 01:32:53.720
<v Speaker 2>sick people. There are sick people that do do lots

1758
01:32:53.720 --> 01:32:59.199
<v Speaker 2>of things and lots of different, varied sort of ideologies.

1759
01:32:59.640 --> 01:33:03.479
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, you know, magic is in itself is there's

1760
01:33:03.560 --> 01:33:06.199
<v Speaker 2>nothing wrong with it. And so people who depends on

1761
01:33:06.239 --> 01:33:08.680
<v Speaker 2>how it's used, you know, trade in that it's it's

1762
01:33:08.760 --> 01:33:13.720
<v Speaker 2>unfortunate and they're doing a metaphis class. I think the

1763
01:33:13.880 --> 01:33:14.520
<v Speaker 2>negative one.

1764
01:33:15.439 --> 01:33:17.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't think people realize how Yeah, I don't want

1765
01:33:17.880 --> 01:33:20.920
<v Speaker 1>to get into it too much, but my honest opinion,

1766
01:33:20.960 --> 01:33:26.800
<v Speaker 1>people who stay stuck on that stuff, they're just black

1767
01:33:26.840 --> 01:33:30.000
<v Speaker 1>magicians gonna keep it real, but it is what it is.

1768
01:33:30.399 --> 01:33:32.239
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you know, I would consider myself want to

1769
01:33:32.760 --> 01:33:34.640
<v Speaker 1>as long as I'm talking and trying to make people

1770
01:33:34.640 --> 01:33:36.359
<v Speaker 1>believe something. I mean, I would say that's kind of

1771
01:33:36.359 --> 01:33:39.319
<v Speaker 1>black magic in a sense. But when you're pumping people

1772
01:33:39.359 --> 01:33:41.720
<v Speaker 1>with fear and hate, like yo, I hate to say it,

1773
01:33:41.760 --> 01:33:47.199
<v Speaker 1>like you're basically just fucking you listen to Satan, person's

1774
01:33:47.239 --> 01:33:52.000
<v Speaker 1>making you hate shit and fear shit. What the fucked man?

1775
01:33:53.359 --> 01:33:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Just weird.

1776
01:33:54.039 --> 01:33:58.840
<v Speaker 1>It's weird, you know, and everybody's fucked up. I don't

1777
01:33:58.960 --> 01:34:00.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't get that whole thing. It's like, Yo, if

1778
01:34:00.640 --> 01:34:02.680
<v Speaker 1>you got a shit on a motherfucker and make yourself

1779
01:34:02.720 --> 01:34:06.439
<v Speaker 1>look good, you ain't jack shit yourself. You ain't got

1780
01:34:06.479 --> 01:34:08.960
<v Speaker 1>no game. If you got to call everybody else's cia

1781
01:34:09.039 --> 01:34:11.399
<v Speaker 1>operative and a piece of shit so people will listen

1782
01:34:11.479 --> 01:34:14.319
<v Speaker 1>to you, you ain't got jack shit. You ain't got

1783
01:34:14.319 --> 01:34:17.399
<v Speaker 1>no game, motherfucker. That's just my opinion. It's like a

1784
01:34:17.439 --> 01:34:19.039
<v Speaker 1>dude who's got to talk shit about some of the

1785
01:34:19.119 --> 01:34:21.119
<v Speaker 1>chicks man to try to get down in pants. She

1786
01:34:21.159 --> 01:34:23.359
<v Speaker 1>fucking wants you. She'll come to you if you gotta

1787
01:34:23.359 --> 01:34:25.399
<v Speaker 1>talk shit about that. Motherfucker and try to persuade her

1788
01:34:25.399 --> 01:34:27.920
<v Speaker 1>you were a fucking piece of shit, jack shit, you

1789
01:34:27.920 --> 01:34:30.319
<v Speaker 1>ain't got nothing. And there's a lot of people that

1790
01:34:30.359 --> 01:34:33.720
<v Speaker 1>are doing that recently, and it's just it's getting silly.

1791
01:34:33.840 --> 01:34:37.960
<v Speaker 1>It's getting extremely fucking ignorant and silly. That's just my sorry.

1792
01:34:38.000 --> 01:34:39.560
<v Speaker 1>I I had a little rantic because it's just like

1793
01:34:39.600 --> 01:34:40.880
<v Speaker 1>a lot I see a lot of it recently, and

1794
01:34:40.960 --> 01:34:42.479
<v Speaker 1>it's just fucking disgusting at this point.

1795
01:34:43.239 --> 01:34:45.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's just funny because I think a lot

1796
01:34:45.680 --> 01:34:48.680
<v Speaker 2>of the people that pull that narrative. I think some

1797
01:34:48.760 --> 01:34:53.600
<v Speaker 2>of them have obvious, like called aesthetic at least trappings,

1798
01:34:53.640 --> 01:34:56.159
<v Speaker 2>and I actually think they know a lot more than

1799
01:34:56.159 --> 01:34:57.359
<v Speaker 2>they you.

1800
01:34:57.319 --> 01:34:59.199
<v Speaker 1>Know, it's interesting. A lot of these people that spit

1801
01:34:59.239 --> 01:35:00.960
<v Speaker 1>this shit don't tell you you what the fuck they

1802
01:35:01.000 --> 01:35:05.199
<v Speaker 1>believe in? Do they? They pointed everybody else saying bad, bad, bad,

1803
01:35:05.239 --> 01:35:09.119
<v Speaker 1>But what the fuck are your believes my man? Nobody knows.

1804
01:35:09.159 --> 01:35:12.439
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. But yet everybody else is a Satanist

1805
01:35:12.479 --> 01:35:14.720
<v Speaker 1>and fucking this and that, But what the fuck are you?

1806
01:35:17.760 --> 01:35:19.920
<v Speaker 1>It's a lot of weird shit going on out there recently,

1807
01:35:20.680 --> 01:35:28.680
<v Speaker 1>all right, that's facts at least is funny, uh, All right,

1808
01:35:29.199 --> 01:35:31.560
<v Speaker 1>facts again, preach all right, I have enough of that,

1809
01:35:31.720 --> 01:35:36.000
<v Speaker 1>but uh uh chin, I feel like there's probably still

1810
01:35:36.039 --> 01:35:37.880
<v Speaker 1>more we could talk about. But chokemar. I don't know

1811
01:35:37.880 --> 01:35:39.439
<v Speaker 1>if you maybe, well I don't because I don't want

1812
01:35:39.439 --> 01:35:42.720
<v Speaker 1>to cram another five minutes or three minutes in. Uh

1813
01:35:42.800 --> 01:35:45.520
<v Speaker 1>maybe we could continue a little bit more on CHOKEM

1814
01:35:45.520 --> 01:35:49.479
<v Speaker 1>and hopefully get behind Yeah again, like I was saying, one,

1815
01:35:49.520 --> 01:35:54.399
<v Speaker 1>I started late. Yeah, unfortunately. I mean we were met

1816
01:35:54.520 --> 01:35:56.720
<v Speaker 1>on time. It's just that we we caught up and

1817
01:35:56.720 --> 01:35:58.760
<v Speaker 1>bullshited for about a half hour and you know whatever.

1818
01:35:59.479 --> 01:36:02.520
<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, I kind of realized. I was like, shit,

1819
01:36:02.520 --> 01:36:04.479
<v Speaker 1>we're kind of cutting it clothes for like three spheres

1820
01:36:04.479 --> 01:36:08.000
<v Speaker 1>because in my opinion, I mean they are not that

1821
01:36:08.039 --> 01:36:11.479
<v Speaker 1>all of them aren't worth talking about a lot, but

1822
01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:13.159
<v Speaker 1>I just feel like the pernal try it is like

1823
01:36:13.199 --> 01:36:17.840
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more to get into. So yeah, So

1824
01:36:18.079 --> 01:36:22.039
<v Speaker 1>unfortunately we will continue choke Ma and then Bean and

1825
01:36:22.039 --> 01:36:25.640
<v Speaker 1>hopefully doth in the next one. Everybody, but uh jin,

1826
01:36:25.800 --> 01:36:28.840
<v Speaker 1>thank you very much. I had a had a bank.

1827
01:36:29.000 --> 01:36:31.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm be totally honest with you. I was nervous about

1828
01:36:31.159 --> 01:36:33.000
<v Speaker 1>doing it because it was just me and you. I've

1829
01:36:33.000 --> 01:36:35.680
<v Speaker 1>been so accustomed to like five people on the screen,

1830
01:36:36.039 --> 01:36:37.199
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, what am I gonna do when

1831
01:36:37.199 --> 01:36:38.760
<v Speaker 1>I have to take a piss or have the air

1832
01:36:38.760 --> 01:36:42.159
<v Speaker 1>condition it gets too cold, you know, gold So yeah,

1833
01:36:42.159 --> 01:36:44.319
<v Speaker 1>I'm sitting here dying to take a piss. Just let

1834
01:36:44.359 --> 01:36:48.640
<v Speaker 1>everybody know. Uh yo, this really turned out great, and

1835
01:36:49.560 --> 01:36:51.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm very in some ways, I'm happy we didn't get

1836
01:36:51.760 --> 01:36:56.479
<v Speaker 1>too far because I actually would like to continue. So yeah. Yeah,

1837
01:36:56.479 --> 01:36:58.319
<v Speaker 1>and the listeners, the people who caught it, I mean,

1838
01:36:58.319 --> 01:37:00.960
<v Speaker 1>they were loving it, so you know, the least, and

1839
01:37:01.000 --> 01:37:03.079
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of other people, even saying Vanessa, a couple

1840
01:37:03.119 --> 01:37:07.239
<v Speaker 1>of the people that love the conversation. So uh yeah,

1841
01:37:07.279 --> 01:37:09.520
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate you coming on, and I really really enjoyed

1842
01:37:09.520 --> 01:37:11.600
<v Speaker 1>the chat. And not to knock all the people on

1843
01:37:11.640 --> 01:37:15.640
<v Speaker 1>the show, but when it comes to cabalistic stuff, you're

1844
01:37:15.640 --> 01:37:17.279
<v Speaker 1>really one of the only few people I can rock with,

1845
01:37:17.439 --> 01:37:19.600
<v Speaker 1>So not knocking other people, it's just I think all

1846
01:37:19.600 --> 01:37:21.000
<v Speaker 1>the people on the show would even say that me

1847
01:37:21.039 --> 01:37:22.720
<v Speaker 1>and you were into the cabal away more than them.

1848
01:37:22.840 --> 01:37:26.079
<v Speaker 1>So I appreciate being able to have this conversation with

1849
01:37:26.119 --> 01:37:28.119
<v Speaker 1>you because I could talk Abala for fucking days and

1850
01:37:28.159 --> 01:37:28.800
<v Speaker 1>days and days.

1851
01:37:28.800 --> 01:37:32.239
<v Speaker 2>Man, it's a beautiful and amazing thing. Yeah yeah, thank

1852
01:37:32.279 --> 01:37:33.560
<v Speaker 2>you so much. I appreciate it.

1853
01:37:33.560 --> 01:37:36.279
<v Speaker 1>Hell yeah, man, hell ya, and thank everybody for joining

1854
01:37:36.640 --> 01:37:39.880
<v Speaker 1>as well. And Jin please let everybody know what your

1855
01:37:39.920 --> 01:37:41.960
<v Speaker 1>deal is and where they can find all your amazing work.

1856
01:37:42.640 --> 01:37:46.239
<v Speaker 2>Sure, I'll keep you super short. Threshold Saints, Spotify, Apple,

1857
01:37:46.560 --> 01:37:49.720
<v Speaker 2>everywhere you get your podcasts Gray Lodge. There's a YouTube

1858
01:37:49.800 --> 01:37:53.479
<v Speaker 2>channel live on x every Friday evening. Check us out.

1859
01:37:53.680 --> 01:37:58.000
<v Speaker 2>All my co hosts Solar, Matt, Joshua, the Branch and

1860
01:37:58.119 --> 01:38:01.239
<v Speaker 2>Monte Carlo. And we're doing speculative archaeologies this week so

1861
01:38:01.560 --> 01:38:04.840
<v Speaker 2>everybody can contribute. Thank you so much, Nick and Lisa

1862
01:38:04.920 --> 01:38:10.960
<v Speaker 2>and everybody from the chat. Amazing small for a million years.

1863
01:38:11.359 --> 01:38:15.560
<v Speaker 2>H yeah. So everybody should study Kuala, I think yes.

1864
01:38:15.800 --> 01:38:18.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I you know. And again this is something I

1865
01:38:18.279 --> 01:38:21.079
<v Speaker 1>want to explain and something that I don't think people understand.

1866
01:38:21.119 --> 01:38:22.880
<v Speaker 1>If you were to go get a book on Kabbala,

1867
01:38:23.000 --> 01:38:26.960
<v Speaker 1>I don't think there'll be one fucking ritual in it.

1868
01:38:26.960 --> 01:38:29.920
<v Speaker 1>It is all about how we came into existence and

1869
01:38:29.960 --> 01:38:33.359
<v Speaker 1>how the fuck you get out of it. There's nothing

1870
01:38:33.399 --> 01:38:35.840
<v Speaker 1>towing you to go fucking kill a chicken, rape a kid,

1871
01:38:36.960 --> 01:38:39.840
<v Speaker 1>or to draw a circle. None of that shit's in there.

1872
01:38:41.399 --> 01:38:44.399
<v Speaker 1>So I highly suggest if you want to get into

1873
01:38:44.399 --> 01:38:46.600
<v Speaker 1>some deep thinking and ponder about how the fuck did

1874
01:38:46.640 --> 01:38:47.960
<v Speaker 1>I come into the flesh and how do I have

1875
01:38:47.960 --> 01:38:51.439
<v Speaker 1>an experience with God? Maybe looking into the kabbala might

1876
01:38:51.479 --> 01:38:56.840
<v Speaker 1>be something you look into. Again. Thank you Jim again

1877
01:38:57.159 --> 01:38:59.840
<v Speaker 1>talking about the kabala I love it and always loved

1878
01:39:00.039 --> 01:39:03.840
<v Speaker 1>chopping it up with you. Yeah, so I think if

1879
01:39:03.880 --> 01:39:07.199
<v Speaker 1>we stick to it August eighth, because we picked the

1880
01:39:07.239 --> 01:39:09.439
<v Speaker 1>seventeenth for today, I mean, let's just be real, it's,

1881
01:39:09.479 --> 01:39:11.479
<v Speaker 1>you know, a cult number, so we're like, fucky, let's go,

1882
01:39:11.520 --> 01:39:13.640
<v Speaker 1>let's do it on seven seventeen. I think we might

1883
01:39:13.680 --> 01:39:16.920
<v Speaker 1>go for August eighth for the next one, so stay

1884
01:39:16.920 --> 01:39:19.760
<v Speaker 1>tuned on eight eight, might come back and continue more

1885
01:39:19.800 --> 01:39:23.800
<v Speaker 1>kabbala Um and then until the next one. Oh real quick,

1886
01:39:23.880 --> 01:39:25.600
<v Speaker 1>just to plug it and then pie in about fifteen

1887
01:39:25.600 --> 01:39:27.640
<v Speaker 1>twenty minutes, which is another reason why I'm cutting it short.

1888
01:39:27.800 --> 01:39:30.640
<v Speaker 1>We'll be going live on hell Lissa's channel. Check that out.

1889
01:39:30.640 --> 01:39:32.159
<v Speaker 1>We'll be going live soon. If you happen to have

1890
01:39:32.159 --> 01:39:33.960
<v Speaker 1>any emails you think you can type up real quick

1891
01:39:33.960 --> 01:39:35.840
<v Speaker 1>and send them out, send them over. We'll read them.

1892
01:39:36.079 --> 01:39:38.359
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, check that out. And again, everybody, thank you

1893
01:39:38.399 --> 01:39:41.800
<v Speaker 1>for jumping in. Really great feedback. I really loved it,

1894
01:39:41.800 --> 01:39:44.319
<v Speaker 1>and even Leaves of Grass was nice today. Sometimes I've

1895
01:39:44.319 --> 01:39:46.760
<v Speaker 1>noticed her kind of talk shit. She was actually enjoying it,

1896
01:39:46.800 --> 01:39:50.279
<v Speaker 1>so I appreciate your nice comments. This time leaves the grass.

1897
01:39:50.680 --> 01:39:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Uh So that's till the next one. Everybody, be well.

1898
01:39:55.000 --> 01:40:07.399
<v Speaker 4>Later, close your eyes, look into the darkness, find the

1899
01:40:07.479 --> 01:40:08.359
<v Speaker 4>blazing star.

1900
01:40:10.520 --> 01:40:17.760
<v Speaker 3>Focus on it and it become the eclipse. Don't fear

1901
01:40:19.720 --> 01:40:24.720
<v Speaker 3>that the show will be done and death.

1902
01:40:26.560 --> 01:40:31.000
<v Speaker 2>You the shoes