Speaker 1: In a very happy Tuesday pea, It's time for military
Speaker 1: badassery and a book to talk about. My next guy
Speaker 1: is William Dunn, President's Strategic Resilience Group, LLC. Started the
Speaker 1: company of twenty sixteen after retirement from a thirty three
Speaker 1: year career in the United States Military, during which he
Speaker 1: rose to the ranks of private through sergeant, second lieutenant
Speaker 1: through colonel Tenant Old Dominion University, got a BA from
Speaker 1: then Boston University, where he got a master's and A
Speaker 1: in business as well as strategic studies. Wants to complete
Speaker 1: the Military Basic School in the Infantry Officers Course in Quantico.
Speaker 1: He reported to NES Pensacola four Flight Training. Getting to
Speaker 1: the subject of the book. To sign is a Marine
Speaker 1: Cobra pilot and complete multiple deployments in a seven month
Speaker 1: deployment to Iraq as commander of HMLA three sixty nine.
Speaker 1: The gun Fighters and support of Operation of Rocky Freedom.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the program to talk about your book, Gunfighters Rule,
Speaker 1: and thank you for your service. Retired Colonel William Bernard Dunn.
Speaker 2: Well, hey, Bryan, thanks for having me. I really appreciate that.
Speaker 2: Uh that that update there, so that sounded great.
Speaker 1: It's you, man, it's you. You lived it.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it, all right.
Speaker 1: I gotta asked it before we get to talking about
Speaker 1: gunfighters Rule and the story you've got there. Where did
Speaker 1: you get Berner from as the as the nickname?
Speaker 2: Well, let's let's let's just put it this.
Speaker 1: Here we go.
Speaker 2: That's gonna that's gonna cost you a beer to get
Speaker 2: that whole all.
Speaker 1: Right, I got a I got a stack of challenge coins, Colonel,
Speaker 1: so I'll I'll be sure and have one in my
Speaker 1: pocket next time we sit down. Catch you off guard. Maybe,
Speaker 1: all right, I appreciate that. Now, gunfighters Rule, Obviously, you
Speaker 1: lived a life. You were in combat. You flew. What
Speaker 1: kind of helicopter did you fly? Was it a viper
Speaker 1: or a venom?
Speaker 2: Or it was a whiskey cobra, whisky cobra, the venom
Speaker 2: and the vipers. I got some time in the Huey's
Speaker 2: and uh, the four belated Cobra came out right as
Speaker 2: I was getting ready to retire. I got a bunch
Speaker 2: of simulator time, but I never actually got the fly
Speaker 2: to four lady cover.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you you, obviously, or at least I presumably you
Speaker 1: saw combat.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I saw combat uh many times, primarily
Speaker 2: as a Ford air controller during O A F one
Speaker 2: and then as a squadron commander of the Gunfighters in
Speaker 2: O F six eight. So I've got got quite a
Speaker 2: bit of time on the ground over in Iraq for
Speaker 2: four combat deployments to Iraq, uh, And I did a
Speaker 2: combat deployment to Mogadishu, but I didn't I didn't return fire.
Speaker 2: They shot at us. We never saw whatever it's coming from.
Speaker 2: So a little bit of combat all over. But uh,
Speaker 2: you know, a lot of a lot of my brothers
Speaker 2: and sister did a lot more than me.
Speaker 1: So well, I understand you. Most folks that serve their
Speaker 1: country honorably always tell the story of the other guys
Speaker 1: and how much more of the other people did. And
Speaker 1: I'm certain that's a bit of being humble on your part.
Speaker 1: So is this is the gunfighters rule? Is it your
Speaker 1: story or is it a work of Is it fictional account?
Speaker 1: Because you know, as I read the notes, it tells
Speaker 1: the story of a boy destined become the United States Marine,
Speaker 1: which sounds like it could be either fact or fiction.
Speaker 1: Is this your story?
Speaker 2: Oh, it's my story for sure? All right? Now I
Speaker 2: started out a young young lad with my father and
Speaker 2: mother were Air Force veterans, and my dad was in
Speaker 2: the Air Force, and when I was a young kid,
Speaker 2: my dad started talking about how awesome these marines were.
Speaker 2: Even though he was in the Air Force, he loved it.
Speaker 2: And our neighbor was a marine. I had a cousin
Speaker 2: who was a marine, and uh, well, you know, long
Speaker 2: story short. My dad passed away when I was very young,
Speaker 2: and I talk about that in the book with some
Speaker 2: strange things happened during that time. And then when I
Speaker 2: turned seventeen, I joined the Marine Corps. That's amazing to
Speaker 2: get my mom to sign off, and there's a story
Speaker 2: about that in there too, because at first she said,
Speaker 2: she said, no, marines are crazy. You're never going to
Speaker 2: the Marine Corps.
Speaker 1: That's great. Now I have to ask you you you
Speaker 1: mentioned you were shot at, and of course, if you're
Speaker 1: in combat in a helicopter, I've always wondered because to me,
Speaker 1: that would be a pants soiling experience because you're in
Speaker 1: this this obviously visible aircraft overhead. And since we live
Speaker 1: in times with modern warfare and heat seeking rockets and
Speaker 1: shoulder fire missiles and things like that, how do you
Speaker 1: cope with that situation, and what do you do to
Speaker 1: avoid getting hit?
Speaker 2: Well, you just fly your tactics. And it's interesting. And
Speaker 2: I'll say this for myself and most of the cover
Speaker 2: plots I've talked to, no one's worried about themself getting
Speaker 2: shot down. You're worried about your women getting shot down
Speaker 2: or the guys on the ground. And that's the stress.
Speaker 2: And I remember we used to we used to escort
Speaker 2: trucks and you're driving, you know, you're flying cobras overhead,
Speaker 2: and you're escorting trucks and one time a truck hit
Speaker 2: an idea blew up. The feeling of that is insurmountable
Speaker 2: because you're helpless. And so one day, and we talk
Speaker 2: about this in the book, a truck hits an I
Speaker 2: d and we find a guy that we call him
Speaker 2: the trigger Man, and we find him and I'm rolling
Speaker 2: in to shoot him and I can see him playing
Speaker 2: this day from a code bore about three hundred feet.
Speaker 2: He surrounds himself with the women and children literally, so
Speaker 2: we don't shoot. That was a tough day, and we
Speaker 2: talk a little bit. It's called UH It's called Gunfighter
Speaker 2: Village in the book. That is UH you know, if
Speaker 2: I talked the marines that were with me on that day,
Speaker 2: we still get stressed out about it. But but we
Speaker 2: got everybody out. Uh nobody, Well, I shouldn't say that.
Speaker 2: Nobody on our side. There's two sides of this river.
Speaker 2: Nobody on our side of the river got killed. But
Speaker 2: on the other side of the our our army brothers,
Speaker 2: they took a beatn and lost lost some soldiers pretty
Speaker 2: pretty terribly.
Speaker 1: Oh it's a shame, and you got to live with
Speaker 1: that the rest of your life. Now I hear. I'm
Speaker 1: reading that you mentioned a family destroyed by tragedies as
Speaker 1: well as disillusionment, disillusionment by the institution. Can you put
Speaker 1: a little flesh on the bones of that without revealing
Speaker 1: too much? It's in the book because I know my
Speaker 1: listen is going to just eat this up.
Speaker 2: Well, so you know, think I'm eleven years old. My
Speaker 2: dad dies. Right the following year, our house burns.
Speaker 1: Down, Oh my god, not all the way down, but.
Speaker 2: It burns up so bad we had to move. That
Speaker 2: was coming off my mother, who early on in her
Speaker 2: life had had a stroke, a very terrible stroke. So
Speaker 2: she had a stroke. My dad died, house burns up
Speaker 2: we got to move out, and then my mother ultimately
Speaker 2: we end up moving into a great house. We end
Speaker 2: up losing that house because she she couldn't afford it.
Speaker 2: So a bunch of tragedy there, and you know, some
Speaker 2: stuff growing up that we learned. And then you know,
Speaker 2: I love the Marine Corps. I love the Marine Corps.
Speaker 2: When you read the book, people will understand exactly what
Speaker 2: I'm talking about. There are some things that happen within
Speaker 2: our beautiful corps that are not great. And like when
Speaker 2: I joined the Marine Corps when I was seventeen, I
Speaker 2: was going to be a marine recon. That's what I
Speaker 2: was promised. And when I'm at boot camping I talk
Speaker 2: about this in the book, they call out done supply
Speaker 2: and they said, well hold on, hold on, there's a mistake.
Speaker 2: And my start and instructor he looks at me in
Speaker 2: the eyes a great grace. Svandi goes, your recruiter lied
Speaker 2: to you, and and he did. He did. I came back.
Speaker 2: I went to see him. He goes, I lied to you.
Speaker 2: You're a marine who cares. And he was right. And
Speaker 2: so that's the weird thing. But I love the Marine Corps.
Speaker 2: You know, It's like I won't allow anyone that's not
Speaker 2: a marine to talk bad about the Marine Corps. But
Speaker 2: the Marines know what I'm talking about. We are a
Speaker 2: cult and we are a tribe, but not everybody in
Speaker 2: the tribe is as perfect if you will, and I'm
Speaker 2: not perfect, we all all of us. I don't know
Speaker 2: a single marine that hasn't made a mistake to where
Speaker 2: they could have been, you know, their career could have ended.
Speaker 2: I don't know one, including some of my friends that
Speaker 2: have risen to very high general officer ranks. Every one
Speaker 2: of us have made a mistake that we could have
Speaker 2: been fired relieved. You know, you just never know, And.
Speaker 1: I guess from what I've talked. I've talked to many,
Speaker 1: many folks who served or actually currently served, and I
Speaker 1: have a lot of listeners in my audience who are
Speaker 1: part of the broader military family, if I can characterize
Speaker 1: it that way. And one of the things that's come
Speaker 1: through regularly is that after being discharged from the military,
Speaker 1: you go into civilian life, and one of the problems
Speaker 1: that retired military face they missed the camaraderie. It sounds
Speaker 1: me like you thoroughly enjoyed the camaraderie of the Marine,
Speaker 1: and how did you adjust to post military life in
Speaker 1: the absence of you know, your brothers, if I may
Speaker 1: put it that.
Speaker 2: Way, Well, that's a great question. So I opened a
Speaker 2: company with two other retired Marines and we support Davy,
Speaker 2: Marine Corps, Army Air Force all over the world. That's
Speaker 2: how I cope with it. But yeah, so I get
Speaker 2: to spend some time with Marines. Not every week, but
Speaker 2: definitely a couple of times a month. And I will
Speaker 2: tell you this, here's the big difference when you transition
Speaker 2: in for any veterans out there, you probably will agree.
Speaker 2: Anyone getting ready to retire or get out think about
Speaker 2: this is that you know, when you're a sergeant in
Speaker 2: the Marine Corps or a colonel in the Marine Corps
Speaker 2: and you tell us a bordinate to do something, they're
Speaker 2: going to do it. Period. They may blow up a
Speaker 2: truck to get it done. They may you know, whatever
Speaker 2: it takes, they will get it done. It's not necessarily
Speaker 2: always that way in the Saveyan world.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, right, oh, if it were only that way,
Speaker 1: If it were only.
Speaker 2: That way, you know, it's like, you know, I'll ask
Speaker 2: somebody to do something, right, which is a big difference.
Speaker 2: Right in the Marine Corps. You don't ask, you tell, hey,
Speaker 2: devil dog, I need you to go take care of this,
Speaker 2: and they do it. And one of the things I
Speaker 2: talk about that in the book, and I asked the
Speaker 2: Marine lieutenant to go blow something up one day, and
Speaker 2: he sure as he did it. Not the way I
Speaker 2: was thinking he was going to do it, but he
Speaker 2: did it. And I it's funny because I talk about that.
Speaker 2: I did a brief one day to a one hundred
Speaker 2: and sixty Northrop Grumman executives on how military leadership applies
Speaker 2: in the civilian world. And what's interesting about that is
Speaker 2: what you know in the civilian world, you may hear
Speaker 2: this phrase do whatever it takes, right, you do never
Speaker 2: never want to tell a marine there. If you tell
Speaker 2: a marine do whatever it takes, they will do whatever
Speaker 2: it takes.
Speaker 1: So you got to define parameters.
Speaker 2: You got to put some forivers on it, because you know,
Speaker 2: and I look back when I was a young Marine
Speaker 2: lance corporal, that was carte blanche, do whatever it takes,
Speaker 2: devil dog. I'd be like, yes, sir, I get a
Speaker 2: big happy smile on my face and I'd go blow
Speaker 2: up the world to get something done. And I tell
Speaker 2: you what. Those my brothers and sisters that are still
Speaker 2: in We'll do that. They they chomp at the bit
Speaker 2: when you say do whatever it takes. That's great.
Speaker 1: Well, and that's what creates the sort of the out
Speaker 1: of the box thinking that military members of the military
Speaker 1: are known for. That's why I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why they're fully appreciated and recognized by many
Speaker 1: employers as great employees. They take charge, they figure things out,
Speaker 1: and they do what they're told. You know, maybe within
Speaker 1: some defined parameters out here in the in the civilian world,
Speaker 1: but they're great at getting things.
Speaker 2: Done well they are. And the other thing that is
Speaker 2: beneficial is that I was a Marine Cobra pilot. My
Speaker 2: first job in my squadron as a lieutenant was the
Speaker 2: legal officer. I have no legal background, but my job
Speaker 2: was to advise my commander on legal issues in our squadron.
Speaker 2: As a brand new first lieutenant cover pilot. One of
Speaker 2: my next jobs was ordnance officer. I had to learn
Speaker 2: about all the not I knew all the ordinance on
Speaker 2: the aircraft. I had to learn and be with my
Speaker 2: Marines and they showed me how to load it and
Speaker 2: all the rules and regulations, and then you know that's
Speaker 2: so whatever job you get, it doesn't matter. The CEO says, hey,
Speaker 2: you are now the logistics officer. That's what you go do.
Speaker 2: And so it makes military men and women very, very diverse,
Speaker 2: and they have to learn quickly how to be an expert.
Speaker 1: Marine Colonel William Bernard donn get a copy of the
Speaker 1: book Gunfighter's Rule. Retired colonel. We put this your book
Speaker 1: on my blog page Pitty five Casey dot com and
Speaker 1: my listeners is going to love to get a copy
Speaker 1: of it. Thank you and God bless you for your
Speaker 1: service to our country. My friend, it's been wonderful having
Speaker 1: a conversation with you.